overclocking

[dull ginkgo]

Lemme see if I can find why it's tier e

[open surge]

...or maybe that, makes sense.

[waxen wave]

mine is prebuilt pc so its the hp version of that.

[open surge]

OUH

[sudden torrent]

That's even worse tbh

[open surge]

Yeah XDD

They often cheap on the PSU.

[sudden torrent]

I've seen prebuilt power supplies rated for 430W (seriously, very specific) that caught fire with sustained load over 350W

[dull ginkgo]

Looks like the elite is just really old, misses uvp, and maybe some others

[waxen wave]

when gaming i use 400 watts of power no fire

if full load

usually its at 20-30%

[open surge]

Wait until 2 years of daily use.

[sudden torrent]

Right, but overclocking on that will push it exponentially higher, especially if you disable power limits on that CPU. The 10700f alone can pull 250W just from disabling limits, no OC.

[open surge]

So as much as an entry level GPU...

...rich !

[waxen wave]

my is limited to 3.9

ghz

[sudden torrent]

Right, since it's not a k processor it can't be overclocked but the limits can still be disabled

Since the limits only are there to restrict the boosting behavior

[waxen wave]

ok so im gonna risk it cuz i cant get another pcu

psu

my parents will get mad

[sudden torrent]

They'll get even more mad once the smoke alarm goes off

[waxen wave]

it hasnt

[sudden torrent]

yet

[waxen wave]

yet

i always keep a glass of water nearby. though it wont help much

[sudden torrent]

Water makes electrical fires worse

There's a specific type of fire extinguisher for electrical fire

[waxen wave]

ya thats why i said it wont helo

help

just to be safe, im keeping 911 on speed dial

but i havent nticed any smoke or anything wrong with my psu

ive also only been using it for a month

[sudden torrent]

As it ages the potential power will go down, keep that in mind as well

[open surge]

Can also keep a glock on arms reach in case your PC turns into some kind of monster for mistreatment.

[open surge]

+100 Core
+750 Mem
103% Pow
MAX FAN SPEED

Gave me kind of an edge.

[sudden torrent]

Not bad at all. That minimum fps is what I was most concerned about and you boosted it to playable levels even in extreme scenarios

[open surge]

Well, I have driven more tests, an it does not seem that stable.

First one was on factory settings

And I made 5 more tests (with 50% base fan speed as opposed to the 20% from the previous one but still factory clocks) :
1 : 77/30
2: 64/28
3: 66/29
4: 63/31
5: 66/32

[left blade]

Skiptrace#4386 has been warned

Reason: Bad word usage

[open surge]

GG

[high grail]

https://prnt.sc/11b07sa Tempted to try these settings just to see if my RAM can even run this fast.

Holy mother of tight timings batman

[open surge]

😶

[high grail]

Well, I'm in windows.

[open surge]

GPUs behave in a very strange way...

[little hound]

is it worth it to try overclocking a 3600xt

[mint mountain]

Yeah prob

If you have adequate cooling

[little hound]

so 240mm aio is probably enough rigth?

[bold shore]

depending on what youre trying to clock to but air coolers work too for oc

[little hound]

i am trying to get a decent overclock on an 3600xt

[tall pelican]

test what it can do with 1.25v, then test what it does with pbo, then test what stock does

[little hound]

will do thanks

[open surge]

I guess it is the best I will get.
+200 MHz core clock
+850 MHz memory clock
105% Power limit
80% Fan speed
Keeps a solid 64°C during the benchmarking process.

[olive quiver]

Would I save a lot on a motherboard by getting a cpu that doesn’t overclock

[tall pelican]

if you dont plan on overclocking, then dont spend the money for it

[olive quiver]

Yeah but I’d save a lot of money too right?

[little hound]

Not a lot but some

[high grail]

So the super tight timings that 1usmus's Ryzen DRAM calculator spat out, actually work for my kit of current RAM.

I'm honestly quite surprised they worked.

Probably didn't give a major performance boost, but it's something at least.

I'll get a nicer boost when I get my 2x16GB Kit to reduce the load on the IMC.

[clever epoch]

Better off buying a decent mobo and setting maximum power limits. Even the "not overclockable" CPUs will just use up the power budget and turbo themselves to decent frequencies

[dull ginkgo]

everything depends

for example

if you buy a 5600x, there's no difference in a b550 board for 100$ or x570 board for like 200$, it's all overclocking capable

if you buy a 10600k, b560 board might be 100$, z490 board like 150$

[sterile flame]

except for asus

for some reason x570 gets special bios features

dumb

[dull ginkgo]

what

[dull ginkgo]

@sterile flame come back again when asus has 100$ b550 boards >:P

[sterile flame]

dynamic oc switching

[tall pelican]

not just x570, but asus likes product segmentation

[sterile flame]

actually useful feature that the include on the x570 boards but not their 260$ b550

[dull ginkgo]

oc switching...

dual bios?

[tall pelican]

nah, swaps between pbo/stock boosting and a manual oc at some amount of current draw

[sterile flame]

^

[dull ginkgo]

wack

[sterile flame]

apparently fixes the single core disadvantage on "manual"

[tall pelican]

v-latch is a z590 apex/extreme only feature

die sense is maximus only feature

vttddr is only vdimm/2 or greater on strix boards, but on maximus/crosshair its whatever you want

[dull ginkgo]

h m

[tall pelican]

asus be like: "lets make product segmentation in firmware, along with hardware"

[dull ginkgo]

I assume someone already modded it?

[tall pelican]

nope

is like how only the unifyx has vttddr control for msi

[dull ginkgo]

the heck is vttddr

[tall pelican]

you generally dont need to mess with it, auto is vdimm/2

reve/revb likes it at 0.6-0.7, bdie is 0.8-0.9

with reve, if you want to clock higher than like 4000mts, you need the vttddr set to that range

with bdie, it helps tighten timings

[dull ginkgo]

interesting

[clever epoch]

So the best memory overclocking board is the unify-x by default because it's the only one with only 2 DIMM slots and proper VTTDDR control lol

Stupid that asus doesn't give VTTDDR control for Strix boards

[tall pelican]

Its vdimm/2 or greater

Perfectly fine for bdie, bad for reve/b

[clever epoch]

Only positive offsets for VTTDDR does not count as real VTTDDR control :p

[tall pelican]

its not really an offset (asrock does offsets)

[still hull]

so about oc if the maxx turbo boost is 5.0ghz can you like oc it to 5.4 ghz or something

[quick rose]

Dpends on if it's a K processor and the board supports overclocking and how good your CPU cooler is

[still hull]

yea its an k

can ryzen have oc too

[quick rose]

Yes, all Ryzen CPU's can overclock on pretty much all the motherboards

NOt restricted like Intel

[proven canopy]

With enough cold and volts, yes

[signal belfry]

Only zen 3 is kind of worth overclocking bc zen 2 and below can’t even hit there rated speeds

I’d just use pbo

[sterile flame]

This is a chip by chip basis. One 3600 can barely hit 4.1Ghz stable while another can hit 4.5Ghz and be on the net. PBO is the way to go, yes, better than manual wasting so much time for barely a measurable difference in most people's cases or only stable within benchmarks, but not within some games or system wide tasks in windows

[dim plank]

is max boost clock the same as overclock? Does it mean maximum overclock speed?

[sterile flame]

Top boost clock is just the highest the chip will be allowed to go. You may overclock past that depending on the chip. Not its not the same thing.

The maximum you can go changes from chip to chip. Some people may get good ones, some get ones that barely get past a boost clock. But you get what you payed for no matter what. If it says the boost clock is 5.0Ghz then you're guaranteed that.

[vale nymph]

This is what is referred to as the silicon lottery

[sterile flame]

Yep, here's two 11900K CPUs Optimum Tech received for example. One can clock the same (possibly higher too), and more efficiently than the other.

[olive quiver]

Is an mATX suffice compared to an ATX motherboard

[dull ginkgo]

It's the same thing, just without the extra slots

[olive quiver]

Oh. So really I can get a mATX that’s just as good as an ATX there’s just nor as many slots in it

[dull ginkgo]

Basically

[zenith palm]

Quick question, for overclocking my ram should i do it in AMD overclocking in the bios or advanced memory settings?

[clever epoch]

bios

bios always for memory overclocking, and I would heavily recommend BIOS for cpu overclocking as well

[zenith palm]

They're both in the bios

It was just 2 options in my bios

[clever epoch]

oh. I've never used the "AMD Overclocking" section in my bios for memory overclocking

I'd probably just use what is most accessible to you in BIOS

[zenith palm]

Yeah i went into the advanced mem settings instead clearly too high of speed tho XD cmos reset time

[zenith palm]

any other ppl knowledgeable with ram ocing, I'm trying to OC my ram, it's Samsung c die and fal cie said that it should probs boot at 3600cl16 no prob with 1.4v but I've got 3 sticks do i need to change something, because i can't get that to boot even 3400 wasn't booting

[sudden torrent]

Skip over 3400 and go to the next step up, not the first set I've seen that didn't like 3400 for whatever reason

1.1v SoC
1.0v VDDP
1.05v VDDG

Load line calibration level 3, or 4 if you have CPU overclocked too

Try to get it to hit the target frequency before you tighten the timings

@zenith palm

[zenith palm]

Okay thanks I'll give that a go, just pbo on my cpu

[sudden torrent]

Might as well go for LLC lvl 4, it won't hurt

[zenith palm]

Thanks, I'm trying now 🤞

[zenith palm]

I don't seem to have llc is that okay?

[sudden torrent]

What motherboard do you have? It's usually under the power options or CPU overclock menu

[zenith palm]

Gigabyte b450m ds3h

Under cpu overclock i see cpu frequency, cpu voltage, ccd control, core control and smt control

[sudden torrent]

Is yours one of the models that has the M.I.T. menu?

[zenith palm]

Yeah

That sounds bad...

[sudden torrent]

Not at all, one sec I found screenshots

[zenith palm]

Okay thanks because i googled and ppl on Reddit where saying it was bad lol

[sudden torrent]

Nah you just don't want to set the voltage too high because LLC will hold the voltage higher under load

[zenith palm]

Ahh i see

[sudden torrent]

If you can find "advanced power settings" it should be under there

[zenith palm]

That's all i got under the mit window

[sudden torrent]

try advanced voltage

[zenith palm]

Just DVID, DVID SOC and dram voltage

[sudden torrent]

Hmm, miscellaneous?

[zenith palm]

Just pcie slot config and 3dmark01 enchanement

[sudden torrent]

Funny that that's a setting
You BIOS is different from the one I'm looking at then

[zenith palm]

Funny gigabyte 🙄

Will i try without the llc?

[sudden torrent]

Go ahead, but if it's unstable under load you'll need to find it later

[zenith palm]

Okay thanks

Well its booted into windows so thats a good start

Ffs it blue screened

[sudden torrent]

That's an improvement, just need to do the timings now

[zenith palm]

But it blue screened as soon as it opened ms teams lol? Should i not be worried about that or can it be fixed

[wet whale]

Hi everyone, I was sent here by Newegg support team for some advice. I brought 2 sets of 3800C14D-32GTZN DDR4 RAM and when I enable DOCP and reboot, my pc switches off then after a few reboots goes into safe mode. Am I in the right place for some help?

[sudden torrent]

That's an easy fix. What were the timings when you did that?

[zenith palm]

Just auto i believe

[sudden torrent]

Definitely the right place. What specs are you working with? CPU, motherboard?

[wet whale]

Great 🙂

[sudden torrent]

XMP on with auto, or just jedec? Either way, probably too tight on the timings since it expects a lower speed. Try 18-20-20-40 to start, and if that tests fine go lower.

[zenith palm]

Okay, ehh it was just 3600 with the voltage settings you said before

[sudden torrent]

Yeah if you have it on auto it'll just load up whatever the XMP or jedec timings are, which is bad. At least it booted which is more than I'd expect in that scenario.

[zenith palm]

Ahh okay, I'll try those timings in a few

[wet whale]

Specs: AMD Ryzen 9 5950X – Latest Chipset installed
ASUS ROG Strix X570-E Gaming Motherboard – Latest BIOS version (3603)
RAM: G.SKILL Trident Z Neo Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3800 (PC4 30400) Desktop Memory Model F4-3800C14D-32GTZN
ASUS GeForce RTX 3090 24 GB ROG Strix GAMING OC
Samsung 980 Pro 1TB on M2 motherboard slot 1
Samsung 980 Pro 1TB on M2 motherboard slot 2
Samsung 970 Evo Plus 2TB on PCI-E lane 3
Corsair RM850x PSU
Corsair iCUE H150i ELITE CAPELLIX Liquid CPU Cooler + x6 Fans in push/pull
Windows 10 Pro 64bit OS

[zenith palm]

Thanks fal

[wet whale]

RAM is x2 so 64 GB ram

I have very little experience with BIOS level changes but lots of experience in OS at an enterprise level. This is my first PC build

[sudden torrent]

Nice! You've got an advantage over most people I'd say. Very nice set of specs too.
The issue here is that the IMC (memory controller) on the CPU isn't able to go full speed on 4 sticks, but we can add more voltage and hope that fixes it. Start with this:

1.1v SoC
1.0v VDDP
1.05v VDDG

[wet whale]

Sure I will give this go now

Should I be changing the VDDG CCD or VDDG IOD

[sudden torrent]

Both

[wet whale]

To 1.0?

[sudden torrent]

VDDP is 1.0, VDDG 1.05

[wet whale]

There’s 2 VDDG

VDDG CCD and VDDG IOD

[sudden torrent]

Right, both of them 1.05

[wet whale]

I can’t post pictures in here? Sorry new to discord too! Haha

[sudden torrent]

Yeah need to be higher level for pics, DM me if you need to

[wet whale]

Set and rebooted but post failed and went into safe mode again

[sudden torrent]

Ok. Hard to tell at this point if it's the IMC or the IF that doesn't like that speed, so I'll run on the assumption it could be both.
SoC 1.2v
VDDG 1.1v

[wet whale]

That’s now set and went into safe mode again

Btw the FCLK is set to auto which is showing up at 1800mhz

[sudden torrent]

Drop SoC down to 1.15v and you can set fclk to manual 1900, but that won't help it boot. Doing a bit of research.

Try setting Load Line Calibration (LLC) to level 3, I believe it's under Digi+ VRM menu

[wet whale]

Sure no problem

Same result

Also for what it’s worth, I did some research and people online suggested it was something to do FCLK but I was able to post if set the FCLK to 1933 but memory speed to 3600

With DOCP enabled

[sudden torrent]

Yeah I doubt it's fclk at this point, Zen 3 can handle 1900 with no errors, sometimes 1933+

[wet whale]

I also know this is wrong as it’s best to be in 1:1 but though I’d mention it

Thought*

[sudden torrent]

Just for testing purposes it's fine, but I'm sure you're aware of the latency penalty

[wet whale]

Yup I ran Aida64 and saw for myself 😂

[latent kettle]

how do i over clock

[tall pelican]

If you're on asus, there's a high chance it just won't do 1900

[sudden torrent]

Oh hi Fitz

[latent kettle]

im intel

i5

and 1650

[tall pelican]

I was referring to the amd system that was having trouble doing 1900if

[latent kettle]

?

[sudden torrent]

I was about to suggest loosening the timings to take some strain off the IMC, what does the expert think?

[latent kettle]

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

[tall pelican]

What ic?

[wet whale]

I can get it to 1933 and even 2000 but just speed of the memory can’t cope if I set it to 3800mhz

[sudden torrent]

B-Die for sure, XMP is 1.5v

3800C14

[wet whale]

Happy to try any suggestions

[sudden torrent]

4 sticks though, that's where the issue is

[wet whale]

It’s Samsung BDIE

[tall pelican]

Leave it on 2133 auto, and use the voltages that the mobo sets for 1933if

Then if still no 1900if, its the asus™️ 1900if hole

[sudden torrent]

What are you trying to overclock? Intel limits overclocking to k SKU chips, but depending on motherboard you could do memory overclock. GPU overclock is easy.

[sudden torrent]

He said the IF booted at 1933 with memory at 3600

[wet whale]

So memory speed on auto and FCLK set to 1933 right?

[latent kettle]

idk im new to pc

kinda

[dull ginkgo]

if you're new to OC, you might want to

[latent kettle]

i dont really need to over clock just wondering what it is

[sudden torrent]

I'm convinced it's the IMC because 4 sticks at those extreme timings would be quite a strain

[tall pelican]

So use the imc volts from that and try it at 1900

[wet whale]

Yup I have screenshot from zentimings showing I can post if I set to fclk to 1933 but only if memory is set to 3600

[tall pelican]

And note that zentimings reads vsoc 2 ticks lower than what it actually is

[sudden torrent]

Tried SoC 1.15v, VDDP 1.0v, VDDG1.1v, still no post

[tall pelican]

Prob just asus™️ 1900if hole if nothing works

[sudden torrent]

Could try running 2 sticks and see if that boots to narrow down the issue

[wet whale]

I will try that next

[sudden torrent]

If 2 sticks doesn't boot Fitz is definitely right

[wet whale]

wow so i got a post with 2 sticks

DOCP enabled but FCLK set to 1933

[sudden torrent]

Must be the IMC then, doesn't like having to drive that much memory.

[wet whale]

When you say memory controller, that the CPU or mobo?

[sudden torrent]

The IMC is located on the CPU

[wet whale]

Damn so the best thing do is loosen the timings?

[sudden torrent]

Well, lets start with why you need 64GB of memory. Chances are 16GB is plenty for gaming, 32GB is likely enough for 3D modeling and video editing.

Did you have an application you use in particular that needs that much memory?

[wet whale]

Ok, I work in the IT industry and as part of my role I do a lot of virtualisation. In my spare time I try to learn new things by creating test labs in VMware workstation. Some env consists of 8+ servers and a 2 hypervisors in some instances

So I need a lot of ram

[sudden torrent]

Ah, I see. More memory and cores makes sense then.

[wet whale]

On most days I suck at warzone otherwise 😊

[sudden torrent]

Ok, what we can try then is to disable Gear Down Mode and set CAS to 15

If that still doesn't work GDM on CAS 16

[wet whale]

Btw i set the FCLK to 1900 now with the speed at 3800. It booted but with a yellow light on mobo and the screen stays black . So I think 1900 deffo is still a bug

Clearing CMOS now

To try what you suggested

If I set it 1933 it’s goes to the windows screen no issues

[sudden torrent]

Hmm. Combination of both problems perhaps? For now lets get the memory to post before we mess with fclk, leave fclk on auto.

[wet whale]

Sure

[sudden torrent]

We might even be able to get it overclocked to 3866 with fclk at 1933 to keep it 1:1, unless 1933 introduces WHEA errors

So let's go back to 4 sticks for now and see if we can get it to post with memory on XMP

[wet whale]

Ok I’ve cleared CMOS enabled XMP, set soc to 1.15, set both VDDG to 1.1 and VDDP to 1.0

Ok, so this but I’ve never done before. Should I be going into DRAM timings and setting CAS column to 15

It’s currently 14

[sudden torrent]

Yes, but you'll also have to go down until you see Gear Down Mode or GDM and disable that, or else it'll force CAS to 16

[wet whale]

Ok set gear down mode to disabled and CAS to 15 and load line calibration to level 3 again

No post

[sudden torrent]

Dang. GDM on

You can leave CAS since it's getting changed by GDM anyway

[wet whale]

Should I set GDM to enabled again?

[sudden torrent]

Yes

[wet whale]

Set and rebooted, no post

[sudden torrent]

Ok. Since you have B-Die memory (that's why it cost so much more) it should be able to handle extra voltage. Set CAS back to 14 and change DRAM voltage to 1.55, if it boots great we'll try to get it lower again so it doesn't have overheating problems.

[wet whale]

Tried that and went back to safe mode

[sudden torrent]

CAS 16 and try to boot again, if that fails there's only one more thing I'd try before passing the problem to an expert overclocker.

[wet whale]

That didn’t work either

[sudden torrent]

Set memory clock speed to 1933. If that STILL doesn't work, 1866.

(3866 and 3733 respectively)

[wet whale]

So neither of them worked

[tall pelican]

if he's on dual rank, he pretty much needs gdm on

[wet whale]

The sticks are dual rank

[sudden torrent]

Fair point. Do you think Forks would have any insight? Or anyone else?

It booted with 2 sticks at 3800 if you weren't keeping up

[tall pelican]

I mean, asus 100% has issues with some boards just not doing 1900if with anything

if it can do 1900 with 2 sticks, then more soc and vddp

[sudden torrent]

Ok, we're getting into unsafe voltage territory though moving much higher.
Memory clock 3800
1.2v SoC
1.075v VDDP

[wet whale]

When you mean unsafe, does that mean if ran at these voltages for a long time the components will degrade? Or do you mean it can instantly die forever lol just checking

[sudden torrent]

We're not at instant death range (that's much higher) but getting close to degrading range

[zenith palm]

Hey fal, earlier you said 18-20-20-40 for my timings, but am i right to do this

[sudden torrent]

The memory I'm not worried about at all, B-Die can handle 1.7v often

[sudden torrent]

Yes, and you can see how the auto settings went for straight 15 which is WAY too tight

[zenith palm]

Ahhh i see

Thanks i wasn't sure because there was 3x 20 and you said 2x 20 so was just checking thanks

Should i use occt to test if i get into windows and dont bsod again?

[sudden torrent]

tRCD RD/WR typically match when you're testing, they can be different as you tighten further

[zenith palm]

Ahh cool thanks

[sudden torrent]

Yes test with OCCT

For example, mine are 15 and 13 but if I lower the 15 I don't boot

[zenith palm]

Ahh i see

[wet whale]

I will set them voltages. What shall I set the memory frequency to and Fclk

[sudden torrent]

Leave fclk auto for now and memory frequency 3800

[zenith palm]

What setting should i use in occt btw?

100% ram?

[sudden torrent]

80% is enough to do a quick 15 minute test

[wet whale]

Ok that went to safe mode too

[zenith palm]

Okay cool

Auto instruction set?

[sudden torrent]

Yeah

[zenith palm]

Pc screen went black then back that doesn't sound good

[sudden torrent]

Well it's supposed to reset to do the timings, give it a minute

[zenith palm]

Okay

It happened like 2 times now

This looks wrong :/ ?

Now full black

Okay looks fine now after the black screen

It keeps black screening, happened a few more times now :/

[sudden torrent]

Probably doesn't like the mixed kits on flex mode if I had to guess

[zenith palm]

Aight time to take out the old stick then

Already seems a lot more stable lol

Alright it's gone fine with just the 2 sticks, should i try drop the timing by 2 each?

@sudden torrent sorry, for tag just answer later if you're busy

[sudden torrent]

Just finished up what I was doing, no worries

[zenith palm]

Cool

[sudden torrent]

Start by dropping CAS to 16

[zenith palm]

Okay

Thanks for the help btw

[sudden torrent]

Happy to help, I find overclocking a really fun hobby but I lack the hardware to do it as much as I'd like, so I get to do it through other people lol

[zenith palm]

Nice always a good way to do tech stuff XD

[sudden torrent]

You can probably drop DRAM voltage to 1.35v btw since you've only got the 2 sticks, C-Die doesn't always like more than that

[zenith palm]

Ohh, should i drop first I'm already back in windows?

[sudden torrent]

Nah just next time you're in BIOS

[zenith palm]

Okay 👌

Another 15ish min mem test?

[sudden torrent]

Yep

[zenith palm]

It should also just log any errors it finds? Because i wanna go grab a snack lol as in i won't have to check for visual errors or something myself which i doubt but just double checking

[sudden torrent]

Yeah errors will show up in log

On the left where the status is

[zenith palm]

Okay cool

Okay fal so I'm dropping to 1.35v, should i tighten anymore timings?

[sudden torrent]

Yeah, try 16-19-19-38

[zenith palm]

Okay

Stuck like this :/ time to manually turn off?

[sudden torrent]

Yep

Then go back to BIOS and see if it saved

[zenith palm]

Okay

[sudden torrent]

If not, or it doesn't boot, cmos clear

[zenith palm]

Think clear cmos time :/

[sudden torrent]

At least we have an idea of where the limit is now

Do 16-20-20-40 with 1.35v

[zenith palm]

Okay will try after

The extra .05v hardly would make it more likely for tighter timings to work would it?

[sudden torrent]

On C-Die not likely

[zenith palm]

Wait should i try again, before i exited I've been saving the profiles and trp was still 20 when i loaded up the last one should i try again, think it didn't get 19 right or does that make a diff?

[sudden torrent]

It won't make a difference

[zenith palm]

Ahh okay

16 20 20 40 here i come

Thanks for the help fal much appreciated

Hopefully see a bit of a bump in perf

[sudden torrent]

Should be a huge jump over, what was it 3000, 3200?

[zenith palm]

3000

Wth not booting :/

[sudden torrent]

1.38v

[zenith palm]

Okay thanks will try

1.38 worked thanks fal 🙏

Even tho the timings meh still big diff right?

[sudden torrent]

Yeah timings are more important here, plus higher fclk

Err, I mean to say timings are still good considering what the sticks were rated at

[zenith palm]

Fair

I'm not seeing much of a perf diff in cpu z tbh tho :/

[sudden torrent]

That's CPU-Z though, not an actual benchmark

[zenith palm]

Ohh not good?

Should i use cinebench instead?

[sudden torrent]

Yeah that would be better, plus time spy would REALLY notice the difference

[zenith palm]

Okay, I'll do timespy as I already have after i upgraded to my 3070

Fal it got an error and didn't bench lol 🤦

I'm just gonna go into steam and make sure no files corrupt

@sudden torrent should i bump voltage back to 1.4v?

That was 95% mem but still

[sudden torrent]

Yeah go ahead and try 1.4v

[zenith palm]

Okay

[sudden torrent]

That's also potentially a cooling problem if the errors came late in the test

[zenith palm]

It was like 2 mins i

In

And it ran the 1.4v test for 15 mins no errors

Looking good, only 4 mins in at 95% no errors this time

Got 1 error so far does whea error mean anything to you @sudden torrent ?

[dull ginkgo]

Oh no

Whea sad

[sudden torrent]

A single error means it failed

That far into the test though, might be cooling as I mentioned since that die is very temperature sensitive. Do you have a fan blowing over the sticks?

[zenith palm]

Yep ive a front intake on the top

It is an nzxt s340 but i have the front panel off

[sudden torrent]

Hmm. Lacking a temperature probe or internal sensor, you can always go by the touch test. The heatsinks can be warm but not too hot to touch.

[zenith palm]

Okay lemme reopen case and se

They feel warm but just like a nice warm not too hot

I think

Mb a bit too warm

In the middle

[sudden torrent]

Judging by that description I'd guess they're around 50-55C

Do you have a small fan to put directly on the modules?

[zenith palm]

No

I'm guessing 50c is too hot

Yeah i think it might be getting a bit too hot, any advice?

[sudden torrent]

With how sensitive C-Die is known to be yeah, that's a bit too hot. You've got a liquid cooler right? That complicates things. You'll want something that can move the air between the sticks. I might be able to suggest more from a pic of the clearance between the RAM and top fan.

[zenith palm]

Ive just got an se 224

[sudden torrent]

Are you able to slide that top fan over so it's more centered on the RAM?

[zenith palm]

Nope 120mm slot for fan on top

[sterile flame]

icepack on the dimms

[sudden torrent]

Can't really tell in the pic, is that top exhaust?

[sterile flame]

looks like it

[sudden torrent]

Yes that would work but not for daily lol

[zenith palm]

Yep

[sterile flame]

[zenith palm]

Yeah dont have an infite supply of ice pack mando :/

[sterile flame]

u should

i always got icepacks

who knows when 17 kids are gonna come to your door with scraped knees?

[sudden torrent]

I'd flip that one and do top intake if you only have one intake fan

[sterile flame]

^

[sudden torrent]

Order from Amazon Fresh, you get free ones every time lol

[sterile flame]

so thats why the shipping is so damn expensive

[zenith palm]

Hmm could i try 3466 or something first don't really feel like flipping it lol planning on getting 4000d airflow soon anyway

[zenith palm]

No Amazon fresh in Ireland

[sudden torrent]

Nah, go to 1.35v, C18

Better to keep the gains from the boosted fclk

[zenith palm]

Okay

Damm i just ran timespy for the fun of it gained like 70 in cpu score

[sudden torrent]

You can tighten secondary and tertiary timings to make up for the CAS

[zenith palm]

Might need some guidance with that, are they the ones after cas i assume?

[sudden torrent]

The primary timings include everything down to tRAS, secondaries are after that, tertiary are the ones with really long weird names like tRDRDSC_L

[zenith palm]

Ahh i see

[zenith palm]

No errors, 95% for 15m that okay?

[sudden torrent]

Should be good, you can try tightening the other primary timings too now or call it good for the time being

[zenith palm]

Calling it good for the night as it's definitely not 12:40 rn

[sudden torrent]

Alright then we'll pick it tomorrow or whenever

g'night

[zenith palm]

Yeah thanks for the help good night

[high grail]

Can any of you RAM nerds figure out what Die is on my new kit of RAM?

Kit: Crucial Ballistix RGB White 32GB 2x16GB DDR4-3200 CL16-18-18-36
Model Number: BL16G32C16U4WL.M16FE

I want to know which Die it is so I can use the proper settings in 1usmus Ryzen DRAM Calculator.

[zenith palm]

You can try typhoon burner but it kinda guesses, look at the sticker on the set you have and see if there's a version number, that's how fal helped me find what die i was using on my ram

[high grail]

I'm not installing it in my system until I know what it IS.

I know it's gonna be Micron something

[quick rose]

Micron rev e most likely

Very unlikely to be anything else

[high grail]

The sticks are definitely double sided.

[waxen wave]

can i oc hp oem rtx 2060?

[quick rose]

Yes, use MSI AFterburner. Should be able to

[tall pelican]

if there's ICs on both sides of the stick, 8gbit rev e, but if its all on one side, 16gbit rev b

(edited to clarify gbit, since there is 16gbit rev e and 8gbit rev b)

[high grail]

It's Double Sided. Now I'm just trying timing configs to make it bootable with tighter timings than normal.

Yeah, it's 100% confirmed 8Gb E-Die

Checked it in Thaiphoon Burner

[tall pelican]

should be able to run 1.5v without an issue, but only cl scales with voltage

rcdrd will suck, and rp is kinda just random

[high grail]

Ah, I'm just putting it through 1usmus calculator on the Safe preset. Tried Fast and didn't get a boot.

[tall pelican]

what frequency?

[high grail]

3200

Didn't try for faster.

[tall pelican]

what cpu?

[high grail]

R5 3600

[tall pelican]

you arent really going to get tighter timings with the same clock speed

[high grail]

Mobo: B450 A-Pro (Non MAX)

[tall pelican]

I'd try like 3733/3800 and get the IF up there

[high grail]

How odd, I was able to get my old ass Hynix AFR kit to run 2800 with tighter timings than stock.

And it was 4 DIMMs

This is 2 DIMMs

[tall pelican]

something like 16-20-20-20-40 should be fine with 3800

[high grail]

Don't bother with sub-timings?

[tall pelican]

afr tightens timings because it cant clock high

dont bother with subs at first

get stable primaries, then do secondaries

[high grail]

AHHH Ok, that's why it got super tight timings (I was getting like, 14-16-16-36 on the AFR kit)

[tall pelican]

yeah, afr golden samples will do 3600mhz

reve will do 4400+ depending on pcb and layout

[high grail]

So start at 16-20-20-20-40 at 3800Mhz?

See if that boots?

[tall pelican]

and give it 1.5 vdimm

[high grail]

Is that... Safe?

[tall pelican]

yeah

1.6 is the grey zone of safe voltage for rev e

[high grail]

And what should my Inf Fabric clock be set to?

[tall pelican]

try something like 1866 at first, if its stable, try 1900

[high grail]

I assume 1867 should be fine?

Since that's what my bios says.

[tall pelican]

yeah, depends on how hard you want to push the cpu

[high grail]

I got to Windows at 16-20-20-20-40 3800mhz

Time for a Cinebench and Timespy run

I've also never manually OCd my 3600. I used to manually OC a 6600K, but... I'm a bit scared to do a manual OC on Ryzen.

[quick rose]

FCLK synced at 1900?

[high grail]

I have plenty of cooling, a Scythe Mugen 5 Rev B in a P400A Digital

[sudden torrent]

PBO is often best for Ryzen OC

Easy too

[high grail]

Started at 1867 FCLK

Will try for 1900 soon

[sudden torrent]

Test for WHEA errors too with testmem5 or occt at that speed

[quick rose]

SO with ram at 3800 FCLK is desycned right now then?

[high grail]

8654 Cinebench R23 Score

Little worse than my old kit. Likely FLCK Desync related

[sudden torrent]

100% it's that

[high grail]

Oh right... I forgot to set the settings for the power profile too...

🤦‍♂️

Booted to Windows at 1900 FLCK!

Uhhhh....

What...

My Cinebench score dropped...

8578

And it's still worse than my old 4x8 kit

What the heck gives?

I also can't seem to get Ryzen Master to turn PBO on???

Anyone?

[sudden torrent]

You said you're on a R5 3600 right?

[high grail]

Yep

On a B450 A-Pro motherboard

Latest BIOS

Oh, dang I just ranked up

[sudden torrent]

It's tricky getting a 3000 series chip to work faster than 1800 without errors, run OCCT cpu and memory tests and I'm sure you'll see tons of WHEAs

[high grail]

Ah, so I should back off to 3600mhz?

And run 1800 FLCK

[sudden torrent]

Maybe, test it to see

[high grail]

Got any ideas on the PBO issue?

[sudden torrent]

A few golden samples of 3000 chips can do 1900 so you just have to test to see where you're stable

[lean helm]

can my pc not boot at all if i mess up in oc

withg rams

with*

[sudden torrent]

PBO you want to do in BIOS

[high grail]

Ohhh

[sudden torrent]

Worst case scenario you need to reset the cmos, it's really hard to actually damage something

[left blade]

Skiptrace#4386 has been warned

Reason: Duplicated text

[high grail]

Reee

[sudden torrent]

The bot's extra touchy today I guess

[high grail]

I have a few PBO options. Enabled, 4 modes of Enhanced, an Eco mode (45w) and Advanced.

My board bios is limited due to it being a Non MAX board.

But, it still is pretty functional

[sudden torrent]

That won't matter much tbh it's only extra features that get cut

[high grail]

Yeah

Which PBO mode should I set it to?

[lean helm]

oh ok

[sudden torrent]

Start with enhanced mode 1, anything beyond that you'll want to get into advanced and tune it yourself

[high grail]

Got it

8677... Still slower than my old kit. And I dont know why.

My old kit maxed out at 8869 in CB R23

I'm kinda miffed.

I mean, it ran at 2800mhz

That should by all intents and purposes SUCK for Ryzen.

And on top of that the Single Core CB R23 run isn't even pegging out a single core at 4.2Ghz

[tall pelican]

the slower your memory is, the higher your cores will boost, and given that cinebench doesnt care about memory, its entirely possible the slow kit scores more than the fast kit

[high grail]

Hmmm... Maybe.

I don't have any RAM intensive tasks though to really test with.

[sudden torrent]

OCCT

[high grail]

I thought "Faster RAM = Ryzen Go nyoom more"

[sudden torrent]

In certain tasks yes

A few cases you won't see benefit

[high grail]

I guess this upgrade was more of a "Let's take some stress off my IMC"

Since I went from 4x8 to 2x16

[sudden torrent]

Gaming benchmarks like heaven and time spy would see a lot of benefit

[high grail]

Ohhh

Good point.

Let me do a Timespy Run

My best CPU Timespy run was 6831

Holy moly. Got a 7245 on Timespy CPU Score!

That's a 400 point improvement

I'm gonna call that a Win for now.

[sudden torrent]

Yeah that's an 8.6% increase, not bad at all

[proven canopy]

If you're sticks are dual rank it's the same load on the imc

You get a performance benefit in 2 ranks/channel anyway

[high grail]

Oh, so it's same load, but more benefit in the case of going down to 2x16. I'm pretty sure my AFR kit was single rank modules.

[earnest onyx]

Question. Is samsung ddr4 1200mhz ram XMP ready or no not really? I tried looking it up, didn't see anything I could understand or translate into english from techspeak.

[dull ginkgo]

Ddr4 1200mhz?

Operating frequency or transfer rate?

[proven canopy]

Post a cpuz memory tab

as well as spd

[dull ginkgo]

(I'm assuming they don't have it and are looking to buy, but dunno)

[earnest onyx]

I do have it, give me one moment

where do you want me to post it?

[dull ginkgo]

DMs work if bot eats iamge

[earnest onyx]

Am I dming you or forks

[dull ginkgo]

either works

forky might be afk though

[earnest onyx]

Yea, I was thinking that.

[proven canopy]

Post here

[earnest onyx]

Here you are, this what you wanted?

[proven canopy]

Post the spd as well

[earnest onyx]

Where would I find that, just curious. Haven't really used CPUZ before

[proven canopy]

Next tab over

[earnest onyx]

Ok.

All 4 slots?

[proven canopy]

Just one if they're the same sticks

[earnest onyx]

I have two that are the same, slots 1, and 4, slot 2 is the same speed but is a different part number as is slot 3.

Would you like them here?

The slot number is in the top right, slots 1 and 4 are identical hence just slot 1 was posted

[proven canopy]

Your ram is running as intended

There doesn't seem to be an xmp setting

[earnest onyx]

Ahhhh ok, didn't think there was but I wanted to be sure. Thank for the help guys!

[sterile flame]

how do i overclock a msi 1060 3gb

im new to that stuff

[sudden torrent]

Download MSI Afterburner (works with other GPUs as well)
Max out the power and temperature target bars
Increase core by +15 and test for artifacts/glitches, once core becomes unstable pull it back a notch
Increase memory by +20 until the GPU becomes unstable again
You can start with +60 core and +400 memory, most cards should be able to do that easily but if yours can't just lower the numbers until it's stable again

[sterile flame]

when i do that my cpu temp goes to 100%

[sudden torrent]

Temperature is measured in degrees Celsius, what are you measuring with a percentage?

[sterile flame]

hang on

can u help me in call?

on the kombustor it says my temp goes up to 80 degress celcius

and to like 100

[sudden torrent]

80 is perfectly normal, and even 100 won't damage a GPU

[sterile flame]

on the cpu tho

[sudden torrent]

Odd, what CPU?

[sterile flame]

I5 4460

[sudden torrent]

Well no wonder, that's a really outdated chip. It'll have trouble keeping up with a modern GPU.

You're on the stock cooler I'm guessing?

[sterile flame]

the ram is also ddr3

yea it is the stock cooler

i need to upgrade my pc

[sudden torrent]

A $25-30 air cooler like the SE 224 or Gammaxx 400 will keep that chip nice and cool

That should help at least, and then you can use that cooler after you upgrade as well later

[sterile flame]

would thermal paste help also?

[sudden torrent]

A new cooler would come with paste

Stock paste is usually fine, the best stuff makes maybe a 3 degree difference on a good day

[dark ferry]

I still use Arctic Silver.

[tall pelican]

4000 18-22-22-42 1.35v xmp

vs 5 mins of tuning secondaries

(most of the 5 mins was recovering from trfc too low )

[proven canopy]

What IC are those

[tall pelican]

sr djr

they're picky as hell about imc volts for some reason

[stark lodge]

How do you get into overclocking?

[quick rose]

Read the pinned messages

And have lots of patience XD

[stark lodge]

alrighty, I'll get to reading. Quick question though, is losing data a big issue to worry about with ocing?

[quick rose]

Not at all

[tall pelican]

with memory overclocking, it can be

[stark lodge]

memory overclocking sounds scary lol, I've seen some horror stories

[dark ferry]

Memory Overclocking from what I've seen is just extremely time consuming. Half the time the guides expect you to already know things about timings you definitely don't know, or assume you're going to follow blindly without a real understanding of what you're changing.

[tall pelican]

.

[chrome smelt]

How far can one overclock on cpu ? Like can you push the cpu far beyond it's capabilities to lets say: 400% instead of the usual 100% ?

[tall pelican]

No, its closer to 105-110%

[chrome smelt]

oh..., maybe I was expecting a bit too much

[proven canopy]

Some chips like intel 2nd gen can get 30% OC on air

[dim plank]

Hello guys. What is the max safe voltage for ZEN+ cpus? Safe from degradation?

[sudden torrent]

1.35v should be long-term safe if it's cooled properly

[dim plank]

vcore voltage right?

how about 1.375v?

[sudden torrent]

Yes

That should be fine, 1.4v wouldn't be too much of a problem either but again, added heat

[dim plank]

is there some kind of degradation with 1.4v?

[sudden torrent]

Not anything you'll notice in a year or 2

[dim plank]

I guess ill stick with 1.35-1.375v.

Thanks.

[dim plank]

Hello guys. Just wondering, does high voltage ex:1.45v safe while in idle?

[sudden torrent]

Yes, that's the normal behavior of the chip when it's on auto. The voltage is higher at idle and droops when under load.

[dim plank]

From what I have read so far, high voltage in idle is fine as long as the voltage is not high in load?

[sudden torrent]

Yes, that sums it up nicely

But if you're setting a manual voltage target, the voltage won't droop as much and may be dangerously high at load

[dim plank]

Thanks again.

[sudden torrent]

No problem

[dim plank]

Is it safe to input high votlage to bios as long as the cpu voltage hwinfo reported is low? ex: bios input= 1.5v hwinfo vcore= 1.3v

What if hwinfo only reports 1.3v as max? Does it still mean I have to consider the high voltage flactuations that hwinfo might not detect?

[sudden torrent]

1.5v is dangerous voltage, well above the AMD recommended max

[dim plank]

I am not so familiar with voltage input in bios vs hwinfo vcore reporting. I thought that as long as the vdroop goes to 1.3v max in hwinfo it is fine. Does vcore input in bios still matter instead of referring the voltage from hwinfo?

[tall pelican]

to an extent, idling super high can be dangerous

[dim plank]

From my thinking. I though I could input as hig has 1.5 -1.6 v as long as the idle or load max voltage is around 1.3v.

does the voltage you input in the bios(before the vdroop) go to the die or chip? That is why it is still not safe? @tall pelican @sudden torrent

[sudden torrent]

Pushing too much voltage into the chip, even at idle, can cause it to immediately die

If droop is a problem for you, just set load line calibration to level 4

[dim plank]

I see. I thought that the input in the bios could just be a number and it is still not the actual voltage that the chip would recieve. And the actual voltage I should consider is only the resulting voltage applied after the vdroop.

[sudden torrent]

The voltage in BIOS is the only correct one, often the voltage reported to the OS is inaccurate or has an unspecified offset

You can see the current voltage under whatever your board's version of a system monitor is in BIOS

[dim plank]

I was seeing 1.290v max in hwinfo. And I thought I could increase the input voltage in the bios around 1.5v. because the vdroop will just turn 1.5v input in the bios into 1.35v max in hwinfo vcore.

[quick rose]

LLC will help with Vdroop

[sudden torrent]

Correcting the vdroop with load line calibration is a better option than risking your hardware

[dim plank]

That could be what I am looking for.

Thanks guys.

[tall pelican]

red line is what llc you set

[dim plank]

Can load line calibration go beyond the voltage input?

[tall pelican]

like higher than bios set?

[dim plank]

yes

[tall pelican]

no

if voltage shows higher, its generally from a superio guessing at vcore

[signal belfry]

It can happen in Asus bios if u max out the llc

When u put a high clock that needs more voltage in asus bios max llc it will add voltage at least in my experience

When it did it actually added just the right amount which I found kind of surprising

[signal belfry]

It’s better to have it with a set safe voltage going in a straight line

In other words no vdroop at all

[tall pelican]

no

[signal belfry]

Why?

[tall pelican]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/706607974004686920/722581079461986374/O-scope.png zoom in on the red line and it looks like this

[tall pelican]

the "added" voltage is superio misreadings

[signal belfry]

Can u explain this with more detail pls?

[tall pelican]

the green line is based on the llc you set, the "flatter" your llc, the higher transient spikes you'll get

and you will always have a voltage drop before the vrm can adjust the voltage, to the point where a flat load line wont have any affect on it

[signal belfry]

So your saying the voltage will drop before the vrm doe anything

?

[tall pelican]

yes

the voltage drop isnt as much, the better your vrm is

[sterile flame]

https://youtu.be/XeDRz3mRIfs

[woven oar]

is +1100 on vram safe?

I'm trying to get the most out of my 1660 ti in terms of mining performance.

[sudden torrent]

If your card doesn't crash or artifact, sure it's safe

The higher you go the more likely it is to crash though

[woven oar]

okay, thanks!

[bleak sable]

Hynix C die is good right

[quick rose]

It's meh

[bleak sable]

So far 3800 CL 16 is stable

So not bad at all to start

[restive cargo]

3800 cl16?

Pfft

Mine does 3800 cl14 at xmp

[tall pelican]

Overheats at xmp if you mem test it too

[fading eagle]

5.2 all core on core voltage on a 10850k

[real prawn]

So it seems my 3600 CL16 overclock was actually not stable, as I hopped on today and was hit with a blue screen for memory management.

I decided to drop it back to stock XMP at 3000 CL15 and pushed my 3950X from 4.15 Ghz to 4.25 Ghz. Testing the speed now.

[tall pelican]

did you stability test your mem overclock?

[real prawn]

So 4.15 was 641 seconds, and 4.25 was 638 seconds. The 3333 ram was 629 and 3600 was 620. So clearly RAM+FLCK is better, but I don't really want to continue diagnosing a faulty RAM OC. Rather just buy a better RAM kit at that point.

[tall pelican]

if you just plug in dram calculator, ofc its going to be unstable

[real prawn]

I had, yes. I let it run overnight and it had 0 errors.

I didn't. I was using advice from here and from a guide I saw.

I got 3000 15-17-17-35 to something like 3600 16-20-20-38. It was stable, but I got a memory management bsod today, so I decided just to not deal with it and reset to stock XMP.

[tall pelican]

if you follow the ddr4 guide on here, you shouldnt run into random bsods

[real prawn]

I had spent 4 days on it already. Don't really care enough

At least with a CPU overclock, I can expect when it would probably crash. With this RAM OC it's completely random, not including hidden errors.

[zenith palm]

Maybe try 3600 cl18 because you'll take advantage of the higher fclk

[real prawn]

Maybe in the future. I just want a PC that runs stable at the moment.

I do think RAM overclocking is cool, but it really only seems worth it if you already have high speed RAM and want to push it to insane levels for fun. I probably wouldn't use a machine daily that has a RAM OC outside the XMP preset that the kit is rated for.

[sudden torrent]

Yeah taking a low grade stick and forcing it to be faster isn't as reliable as taking a higher rated stick and making it run tighter

[real prawn]

I mean, it was cool as heck, especially seeing that 3.3% improvement.

[slim oyster]

anyone know why when downloading the chipset driver for the ryzen balanced power plan, after installation and restart it does not show in my power settings?

[sudden torrent]

Do you have a 5000 series CPU?

There's no special power plan for 5000, it's only for zen 2 or lower and zen 3 is the 5000

[short otter]

My 1650ti memory can be clocked higher than my 2060's by 600 mhz

It's driving me crazy that my 2060 just won't accept any higher than +220 memory

I got +1150 on my 1650ti

[zenith palm]

You can't really compare the deltas, 2060 should have higher mem clocks in the first place anyway

[short otter]

well after it all my 1650ti can clock higher in memory by 600mhz

it's kinda silly ngl

they already have similar speed gddr6 since that's the main upgrade for the ti version

[sterile flame]

Why? because they aren't gonna give everybody good bins

they bin for factory OC

at best

which is usually just core

[short otter]

Yeah my core clock can hit 2120mhz on my 2060

like that's a super good bin for the core

it was already factory oc'd

but the memory barely can be pushed any higher, which honestly I find more important, especially with the smaller frame buffer

[sterile flame]

its not nvidias problem lol

[short otter]

It's mine for buying a 6GB gpu lol

Like doom eternal I literally can't max out the game without modifying it because of the frame buffer

[zenith palm]

Then lower details?

[quick rose]

You playing at 4K or something?

6Gb should be fine for 1440p

[tall pelican]

1440p max needs like 7.8 or something like that, barely fits in 8gb

[real prawn]

I feel like doom is a poor example, because it's the only extremely optimized game out there that legitimately runs into a VRAM bottleneck

[tall pelican]

rise of the tomb raider can, and HZD has used 11gb of vram at 1440p

[real prawn]

Meh

I think people are realistically just complaining that their poor research resulted in them not being able to play games well. I had bought a 970 when it just came out, and even then, most games only ran smoothly at medium or high settings at 1080p, not even maxed.

[robust aurora]

Cod mw is using almost 8 too on 1440p max

[real prawn]

Well, that doesn't include the fact that CoD is a game that lets you choose your VRAM amount, and compensates for it properly. I think people forget that DirectStorage/RTXIO are becoming things for that exact reason

And note you said "1440p Max". It was only a few years ago that 1080p 60 was the standard. Now people want their games to run at max settings, really high res, without paying more money.

[robust aurora]

True

[real prawn]

Software and hardware aren't able to keep up with demand, which is why we are getting directstorage, DLSS, RTX, Tensor cores, Resizable BAR, and other technologies.

[sterile flame]

i need some help please, i have a ryzen 7 3700x that has served me well at 3.9 ghz for months, but today for some reason it went down to 0.54 ghz and is staying there, i’m not sure what happened, it’s extremely slow now but the temperatures are showing that it isn’t hot, so what could be causing it to be so slow

[chrome smelt]

Has anyone here overclocked their cpu to their fullest limits ?

Like 6ghz or 7ghz (if it's possible)

[robust aurora]

Well it is possible but not for a normal consumer
You need to use liquid nitrogen for those frequnecys

[chrome smelt]

Mane, that's crazy Gamer's Nexus and JayzTwoCents have that type if cash

[tall pelican]

its like $200 for a pot, $100 for dewar and $50 for ln2

and you can do 6ghz on a core or two, if you know what you're doing on water

[chrome smelt]

That's a couple of text books and some ramen noddles that would last a years worth of studying right there

[tall pelican]

that's barely 1 uni text book

[chrome smelt]

Wait where do you buy your Uni books ? I buy them off from Cheap Text Books websites or Ebay, and it works

[tall pelican]

used on ebay

[chrome smelt]

except you're right, I was forced to buy a $280 (used) book for one semester since I could't find it on the website or ebay.....

[sterile flame]

Standard still is 1080p

Gonna take a while since a good 1440p 144hz is 250-300 minimum

[real prawn]

Maybe on the steam survey, sure, there's more 1080p monitors than the rest. But that's not really the current public outlook for many games. And 1440p is a lot more popular than you think.

Back in 2014, a 1080p 144hz monitor was about $250-350.

That's when I got mine

[sterile flame]

Still, im pretty sure 1440p is not more mainstream than 1080

This year might change that

who knows

[real prawn]

It's not really about what's mainstream. It's about what developers are pushing towards (because 1440p and 4K, or even 1080p/1440p UW actually make up a significant portion of the market).

[zenith palm]

1080p high refresh rate is still the most popular not just according to steam but also according to sales, and until you can buy a 1440p monitor for 200 or less i wouldn't consider it the standard

[sterile flame]

The complaining was about a last gen card worth almost nothing for those titles

[real prawn]

IDK. All I really know is that 1440p makes up a considerable part of the market, and that so, so many people were complaining about VRAM when it really only affects people pushing 1440p on max settings in some games.

Back on a 970 I could still barely run high settings on some games at 1080p.

And now they expect a 3070 to play 1440p UW max settings 60+ FPS no problem.

[sterile flame]

the guy complaining is on a 2060, the only way you're fixing that VRAM problem is just making it better vram which is gonna make more miners buy the card

not exactly helpful for nvidia to do that, and that said, Fast vram > more vram

unless for some reason you want the 3060s garbage vram on something like a 3080

[sterile flame]

So I’m obviously a novice when it comes to manual overclocking. I was thinking of PBO + Auto OC my Ryzen 5 3600. Is it worth it? And how do I go about doing that? Any tutorials I should look at? 🤭😅

[sterile flame]

just go to bios and enable pbo

[lunar bear]

i'm afraid to put liquid metal on my laptop cpu :/

and it's over heating in warzone 😦

[sudden torrent]

Why? Repasting laptops is easy enough and a great way to drop temps a few degrees.

[lunar bear]

LIQUID METAL

[sudden torrent]

Yeah? Just don't put too much

[lunar bear]

i have repaste my laptop and it was good but for a few months only

i could kill my laptop 🙂

[sudden torrent]

Do you have a cooling pad? Might be easier if it scares you that much

[lunar bear]

i have, its useless

cuz not much ventilation on the bottom of my laptop

[sudden torrent]

Then your options are re-paste, get a better pad with a more direct fan, or deal with the overheats.

[lunar bear]

hahaha

should i put holes in the bottom cover of my laptop?

[sudden torrent]

You could do that, but keep them near the original vent

[lunar bear]

then its drilling time

🙂

[zenith palm]

Make sure you do it with the backplate off lol and dont decimate your poor laptop

[sudden torrent]

I'd hope that goes without saying lol

[zenith palm]

Me to but sounds like something you might overlook lol

[real prawn]

I was reading that this does nothing but increase voltages, and that you actually need to tune PBO manually for it to have any benefit.

[sterile flame]

@real prawn any recommendations on tutorials? Im novice at overclocking 😬

[dull ginkgo]

@sterile flame check the pins

[sterile flame]

Ohh true thanks 🙏🏽

[real prawn]

I never even tried PBO because it's apparently better to just do an all-core on a 3900X/3950X

Plus I'd need to do a ton of testing just to even get a dataset to work off of

[tall pelican]

I want to know who told you that, because its a lie

all core is the absolute worst thing you can do to a dual ccd zen2/3 cpu

[proven canopy]

Let's see some love for ddr3 http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?285767-DDR3-IC-thread

[lavish tundra]

When you have more than 1 ccd, one ccd is always higher bin than the other. You OC that ccd higher than the other one

Per CCD OC is the way to go

or PBO

both work

[real prawn]

I had tried per CCX and CCD, but the gains were negligible and ultimate more unstable than a 4.25 Ghz

[lavish tundra]

Then you didnt try well enough

[real prawn]

I.E: The jump from 4.0 (stock all core when under full load) to 4.25 was much larger than pushing each CCX as far as it can go

[lavish tundra]

You have to treat each CCD as an indivisual CPU that you need to oc

[real prawn]

I had spent a whole day once pushing each CCD and then CCX to their maxes and it didn't really work, especially with heat

Once it got close to the max before crashing, it would start to have rounding errors in P95

Which was basically anything above 4.30 Ghz

And any more voltage would keep it above 95C

[lavish tundra]

See not all ccds are gonna go up to the same frequency

[real prawn]

I understand that. I had one CCX max out at 4.35 and another at 4.575 Ghz

[lavish tundra]

One can hit 4.5 while the others are 4.2 and stuff like that

[lavish tundra]

reduce by 25 mhz steps

keep voltage at 1.3

Then when you have your frequencies stable you can start crushing voltage

[real prawn]

But on the 4.575 one, it was having rounding errors above 4.5. Not to mention it needed more than 1.3V on the highest LLC setting, which I did not feel safe keeping daily.

All in all, the gains I had seemed negligible above 4.3, and 4.35 all core was actually worse, I'm assuming because of a lack of voltage.

I do want to test resetting the OC to stock and testing just to see if I was missing anything, because many benchmarks claim the 3950X to be way better than mine is.

[lavish tundra]

put LLC on medium or one step above medium

1.3V

and get as much out of each ccx as possible

[real prawn]

I had already done that, I'm telling you

[lavish tundra]

then reduce voltage PER CCD by 6mv

[real prawn]

it had incredibly negiligble gains

and 1.3 on LLC 2 or 3 (above middle, middle respectively) would droop below 1.25 under load, crashing the system usually.

[lavish tundra]

I mean you are saying one CCD was stable at 4.5GHZ?

Then keep it 25 mhz below that

[real prawn]

I chalk it up to a bad bin and the fact that I had the ASRock X570M Pro4

[lavish tundra]

more the mobo

[real prawn]

One CCX to 4.575. The other CCX on that CCD was 4.4 I believe, so the CCD would be 4.4

[lavish tundra]

even a bad bin on a ryzen 9 shouldnt perform like that

Just keep trying or use pbo on all limits maxed

[real prawn]

I had done per CCD at one point, but I didn't pay much attention to the results since it was basically the same as my 4.25 all core

Maybe one day when I'm bored. I've seen how much better memory speeds are, so maybe one day when I can afford it, I'll swap out to a 3600 CL16 kit, assuming I don't go for Zen 3 at that point.

Because at this point I feel like I've done all I can to compromise between speed and stability

The 3600 OC ended up failing so I just dropped it back to the stock 3000 XMP

I'd rather have a stable PC than an unstable one that's 1-3% faster.

Thing already gets to 82C on video encodes at 4.25, and mid 60s during gaming.

[lavish tundra]

i mean even ZEN 3 likes 3600mhz

[real prawn]

Oh absolutely. I'm realizing now that many of my performance losses are probably a combination of locking it to all-core and not running a 3600 Mhz kit.

well, performance losses at least in games.

My 4.25 all core can manage just shy of 10,000 in R20

And I believe stock was about 9,000-9,300

[lavish tundra]

All core doesnt matter to games tho.

most games are single core workloads

and pbo better than all core for gaming

[real prawn]

Yeah, I know that

It doesn't help that Zen 2 still suffered quite a bit from the cross-CCX performance losses

Before tarkov fixed itself, I was getting about 45-60 FPS with stutters versus a smooth 90-120 FPS, just by locking it to 4 cores on a CCX

I had even turned off SMT for a period of time because I was seeing a small fps boost.

[lavish tundra]

It isnt zen 2, its the fact that ur FLCK is slow

[real prawn]

It still was a problem. That was a major talking point when they talked about Zen 3 having 8 cores per CCX instead of 4.

Surely my FLCK being at 1500 and all core didn't help, but there was still an inherent CCX issue that AMD acknowledged when they announced Zen 3.

[robust aurora]

is there overclock guide for lga 1200? cant find it in the pinned messages

[proven canopy]

Intel 6th through 10th gen are very similar

[real prawn]

It was worse on Zen 1, where the 1950X couldn't even encode video properly because of the Infinity fabric latency

[robust aurora]

ok thanks

[real prawn]

At any rate, my desire for 1-3% more FPS in games does not out weigh spending that OC time doing other things, or just having a stable system

[proven canopy]

nah, gotta run direct die + custom loop for those extra single digit fps

4400 cl16 memory or broke

[real prawn]

Has anyone tried to do direct die on Ryzen yet?

[lavish tundra]

ur talking about L3 cache?

[real prawn]

Kinda, yeah. Because the old design basically had two of processors on each CCD, and then further split with two CCDs on a processor, right?

Oddly, I saw my best gaming performance when I specifically tied a game to CCX 0_1 and CCX 1_0. Unless the way it's reported in Ryzen Master and HWiNFO is different from what affinity I set in process lasso

[lavish tundra]

You are talking exactly about unified L3 on ZEN 3

It improved perf for sure

but L3 isnt a problem at all on ZEN 2

[real prawn]

It's not about the L3 specifically. It the layout of the CCXs. On Zen 2, there is an infinity fabric not just between the CCDs, but between the CCXs as well.

Here is a Zen 2 CCD, where you can clearly see the middle section cutting off each CCX.

I can't find a raw image of the Zen 3 CCD, but if you look at the official slide they used, you can see the Zen 2 layout and how that middle section was moved to the bottom.

So it's not L3 cache specifically being filled or anything, but the latency between cores, as well as L3 cache.

Previously, if a core on CCX 0_0 needed data from a core on CCX 0_1, it would need to do a transfer between caches (or something like that), which introduced a bit of latency.

It doesn't seem like a lot, and many games don't really suffer from it all that bad, but I've noticed a boost of 5-10% in some games on Zen 2 simply by restricting it to a single 4 core CCX.

And as I said, oddly when I go across CCDs with one CCX each (8 cores total) it actually sometimes has a slightly between performance than a single CCX. But I'm guessing this is down to Windows optimizations and micro architecture improvements to not trade threads between CCDs or something.

Sea of Thieves is a pretty good example. I would observe an FPS boost from, say, 82 FPS to 90 FPS by restricting it to a single CCX instead of allowing it to run on all cores.

[lavish tundra]

That is the larger unified L3 cache lmfao

also just because a new way is better does not mean the old way was problematic

[real prawn]

I'm not sure what to say to that.

The new Zen 3 CCX design acknowledges that there was an issue with the original CCX design that was carried into Zen 2.

Yes, the CCX design actually wasn't too bad at all when it came to Zen 2 and performance was still great, but there was still an issue with some games not getting as much performance as they could have if it was laid out like it is now with Zen 3.

The only reason I started to bring this up is because you countered my cross CCX point with mentioning FLCK, which was cross CCD. Even though, in my tests, cross CCD was actually more performant than cross CCX (as I had just mentioned).

It's a shame because besides AMD saying it in their presentation, no one has really covered the CCX performance issues that existed/still exist on Zen 2.

Wendell from Level1 actually had reached out to me, offering me a trade for a 9900K if I could document the issue, send him the results, and then send him my 3950X. Though, I failed to follow through because of personal life.

I actually wrote a better article on it when I noticed the issue in Tarkov.

https://www.reddit.com/r/EscapefromTarkov/comments/es552x/this_game_prefers_4_physical_cores_well_actually/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

[lavish tundra]

acknowledges there was a better way

not that the old one was problematic

[real prawn]

I would consider it problematic, since that same basic issue was happening on a CCD level back in Zen, where multi-threaded, time sensitive work was suffering (like software video encoding).

And even though it's kind of Tarkov's fault, and they did improve it significantly over time with patches, it was extremely problematic for me when I'm just trying to play a game just like everyone else.

Again, yeah, it's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but it's enough of a performance boost in some games that it could be problematic.

I'm sure if AMD admitted this issue, they could have released a software update with windows, or provided guidance for game developers to improve performance further on some games.

It was actually to the point that I was getting hitching in CSGO, where it was resolved when I forced it to 4 cores.

AMD could've done that instead of fixing it on a hardware level in Zen 3, which surely gained them more revenue by boasting an X number of game FPS boost (when it would have been smaller if you compare the performance of games running on one CCX).

[lavish tundra]

just because you do doesnt make it a problem

just that a new method is better

[real prawn]

Just because I do doesn't mean it isn't a problem either. I firmly believe that no one really noticed it and was fine with the performance they were getting.

I'm sure if more people knew about it, or even if a medium sized tech news place reported on it, then way more people would think it's an issue, including you.

The fact that AMD solved the same problem I had by changing the architecture itself proves that it was a problem. Otherwise, it really would've just been a me issue.

Especially that every tech news outlet reported exactly the words I had mentioned about a year ago, which were parroted by a statement from AMD.

It's not like some new technological advancement that helped increase IPC (which AMD is doing well), it's a preventable problem that, honestly, I think AMD could have easily found in their testing.

I would not be surprised if they planned it this way on purpose to maximize revenue. Though, honestly, isn't a bad move and I wouldn't mind if they did, since they have been crushing Intel, and dropping Zen 3 optimizations in Zen 2 (as least the CCX layout) would have stagnated the market, which is bad for burgh AMD and Intel.

It could be that they noticed the issue, but felt that the performance boost over Zen+ was justified enough already and felt good releasing Zen 2 as it was. Which makes sense. You don't want to pour all your effort into a single product if it means delays.

[clever epoch]

I can almost guarantee you that the silicon engineers at AMD were very aware with the cache layout limitations of Zen2 and very much realize the fact that a workload spanning more than 4 cores will run into latency issues when attempting cross core communication.

It's not a problem so much as a limitation with the design that AMD used. If you remember, Zen/+ also have 4 core CCXs. So the update to zen 2 inherited that, and Zen3 refined it by merging them.

I'm certain this was a deliberate decision, as if you remember, Zen2 was taped out shortly after Apple's turn on the N7 node, where yields (particularly for the high performance library) were less certain

Additionally, 32 MB of cache on a chip takes up a lot of space, as you can see on the die shots. In fact, cache takes up the most area on zen chiplets.

So with such a huge volume of cache and yields being less certain, and AMD being relatively cash starved on a very expensive node, it made sense for them to be conservative with the design and opt for better yields instead.

And this is assuming that they even had the time to think about unifying the cores in a CCD. It seems easier than you think, especially with all the other core and uncore changes they made with Zen 2

Also the biggest aspect that it seems you neglect to mention is the fact that with the unified cache, a single thread has access to double the L3 it previously did. The cross-core communication penalty is secondary to that for most games

[lean helm]

if i wanna overclock my cpu the easiest way possible do i just put a higher speed for it and leave everything on auto?

on a ryzen 5 3500x mobo is asus prime b450/a-csm

[tall pelican]

enable precision boost overdrive

[lean helm]

what is tha

t

[proven canopy]

weird to see actual high quality architecture discussion here

[clever epoch]

AMD's advanced boosting algorithm. You should enable it in BIOS. Should be under the "AMD overclocking" section of advanced.

[lean helm]

do i have to manually regulate the voltages

[tall pelican]

not for pbo

[dull ginkgo]

offsets available but no need to manually set

[lean helm]

cause i dont wanna mess with the voltages

[lean helm]

so what do i do with that exactly

can u guide me thru

[tall pelican]

look up for your motherboard for how to "enable precision boost overdrive"

[lean helm]

do i just enable it and it auto ocs?

[tall pelican]

yes

[orchid flame]

no. this is simply put not that at all

the choice to go with a 4c CCX on Zen2 was purely an economically driven one.

at the time, N7 was 9.8k/wafer and had a D0 of 0.12

now, with wafer price dropping to 8.9k and D0 of 0.09, it suddenly became much much more economically viable to increase chipset size

also
the main performance uplift isnt actually the 8c CCX

crosstalk between CCXs was already quite rare even on 4c CCX

the main thing was that they decreased internal CCX latency

despite makeing theCCX 2x the physical size, it was still managed to be of lower internal latency

[orchid flame]

that is latency driven, however not related to being2 seperate CCXs

in order to prove that you need look no farther than Renoir

the fact is the reason a single CCX is faster isnt actually rhe added latency of going cross CCX, but just the added distance. Same is true of a mesh based CPU like a 10980XE

such CPUs will perfor much much better in 2-3 core workloads if you restrict it down to a few cores that are next to eachother

had the Zen2 CCX been 8c, the internal core-core latencies would have still not made a major impact to performance.

it also comes down to how windows handles multicore communication, so its not even purely latency driven

[real prawn]

Is there data to back that up? Otherwise, it's speculation, which is kind of the same as what I had.

Though, I don't really want to debate this topic further, both since I see no point and because this is the overclocking channel.

I only brought up the cross CCX thing because I think I'd get more performance out of that than trying to go from all-core to PBO.

Also since the Zen 3 redesign notes specifically mentioned game performance when it came to unified cache and 8-core CCXs.

[orchid flame]

data to back what up exactly?

which specific point

Also since the Zen 3 redesign notes specifically mentioned game performance when it came to unified cache and 8-core CCXs.
ofc it makes a difference, just nothing anywhere NEAR as substantial as the core-core latency drop from within CCX.

[real prawn]

Nevermind. I guess I asked for data on a point where it wouldn't have mattered or actually proven.

[real prawn]

What?

[orchid flame]

Zen3 CCX has lower core-core latency on its furthest cores than Zen2 did on its furthest cores.

despite being double the size

that is a change entirely unrelated to CCX size, but rather design of the core-core bus.

matisse

vermeer

renoir

[real prawn]

So may I ask, what point are you debating with this information? Because as far as I can tell, we agree.

[orchid flame]

oh, I saw discussion about arch and was bored

@proven canopy you still up btw?

got some cool news

tRFC ns scales negatively with clock speed on Rev E

the lower your clock, the lower the tRFC ns you can get

until about 4400

its an upside down parabola

took some Rev E to 800, got 173ns tRFC

lowest I've seen on rev E to date

[real prawn]

My only issue was that, in this quoted reply, you said it is latency driven, and nothing about it being two separate CCXs.

This is despite the fact:

The net win of the new structure from greatly improved cache hit rates for application with larger memory pressures, taking advantage of the full 32MB L3, as well as workloads which make use of heavy synchronisation and core-to-core data transfers: Whereas in previous generations two cores in different CCX’s on the same die would have to route traffic through the IOD, this on-die penalty is completely eliminated on Zen3, and all cores within the new CCD have full and low-latency communication to each other through the new L3.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/16214/amd-zen-3-ryzen-deep-dive-review-5950x-5900x-5800x-and-5700x-tested/4

[orchid flame]

yeah, didnt phrase that the best
its just that cross-talk doesnt happen all too often in games

it does help

but had it still been a 4c CCX, the other changes to the CCX would have themselves brought substantial gains

[real prawn]

The only reason this whole thing started is because Confused was, I guess, assuming I was only talking about the unified L3 cache, and not about the IOD.

Oh I agree, but it's clear that Zen 2 had a problem when it came to game thread optimization. Confused was somehow pretending like this wasn't an issue at all, and just a design improvement.

[orchid flame]

game thread optimization
less of an architectural defect and more microcode an scheduler related

the windows scheduler has gotten massive amounts of updates recently to be better optimized for Matisse

[real prawn]

The fact that I could assign one CCX per CCD and performance increased further in all my tests shows that it was a software optimization thing, at least I think. But when it was two CCXs on the same CCD, the OS or whatever manages threads didn't think it was a problem to have threads across CCXs.

[orchid flame]

something thats helped performance substantially

[real prawn]

I would say it's both, honestly, but I guess it depends on the game. A game that uses two or three threads, and having it go across CCDs would incur a major performance penalty. But the thread management keeping it in on a single CCX can help. That was basically all I was seeing.

But then, a game like FS2020 saw FPS boosts with every thread I gave it. It did not care about what threads it used since the game is inherently slow in the first place, to where the processing on a single thread was slower than what latency would do to FPS.

[orchid flame]

well yeah thats expected in FS2020

the only real games I see scale like that are games made on AnvilNext2.0

and any similar engine that scales to 8+c

[real prawn]

I'm guessing that DOOM would be a good example too, but I haven't tested it. I don't even own it.

[orchid flame]

I can test using smth like pocess lasso or just manually changing thread affinity