building-and-recc-chat

[fossil cedar]

if you read his bio it says dont dm if your not fren

[formal mica]

Fren

[cyan ravine]

Fren

[formal mica]

Felix are u my fren

[earnest olive]

pato and i are so much more than friends

[cyan ravine]

I am all person fren

[earnest olive]

pato is my favorite coffee fetcher

[cyan ravine]

Silly mushy there's no coffee in Ireland

[earnest olive]

fetching coffee for mods is in the techie job description

smh

go get me some coffee felix

[fossil cedar]

[cyan ravine]

How is he even techie if he can't even find any

[cyan ravine]

Get ur own

[fossil cedar]

i have my ways

[formal mica]

Oh when did you guys first meet

[cyan ravine]

(Rate me 10/10 australian service)

[cyan ravine]

Here ages ago

[earnest olive]

this is how i rate your service

[fossil cedar]

well the oldest time i replied to sips was march 2021

[cyan ravine]

U love it great I'll keep it up

Yay

[earnest olive]

you are no longer techie. submit your 13900KS immediately. you are receiving a free upgrade to FX 4100. please do not resist.

[cyan ravine]

I'm finally free of my insane responsibility

💀

[earnest olive]

we will also be exchanging your custom loop for a corsair h100i platinum with icue.

[cyan ravine]

N-NO

[earnest olive]

[cyan ravine]

I DON'T WANT 8 PLUGS WITH MY AIO

[earnest olive]

does this look like the face of mercy?

[cyan ravine]

YOU CAN'T MAKE ME

https://tenor.com/view/quarantine-drag-away-girl-huang4evr-gif-23515085

[earnest olive]

lmao okay but actually the amount of cables involved with this h150i i got yesterday is hilarious

did you see my scuffed chair setup?

i just had the controller dangling in the air suspended by the cables

[cyan ravine]

[fossil cedar]

option 2 : https://au.pcpartpicker.com/product/FYJp99/corsair-icue-h60x-rgb-elite-4773-cfm-liquid-cpu-cooler-cw-9060064-ww

[earnest olive]

do you see the controller lol

[fossil cedar]

skull

[earnest olive]

i had to plug the actual PWM connectors into the board instead of the fan hub

cause apparently x570 tuf refuses to boot if no cpu fan is detected

[fossil cedar]

acttually no non rgb for you

[earnest olive]

kinda weird, i remember being able to disable cpu fan warning on my older asus boards

[fossil cedar]

120mm rgb corsair

[cyan ravine]

No joke I lowkey like corsair fan hubs but I HATE that they're proprietary

[earnest olive]

honestly

[cyan ravine]

The basic ones

[earnest olive]

this h150i isn't bad

[fossil cedar]

weird

[earnest olive]

corsair has 2 problems

1. icue
2. price

i avoided both

[cyan ravine]

Ya if none of corsair's rgb crap or fan crap was proprietary I'd feel way more comfortable

[earnest olive]

paid 50% of retail and i'm using openrgb to control it perfectly fine

so i feel pretty good about it

[paper summit]

Wasn't there a really good 1k parts list here the other day

[earnest olive]

the pump comes with a DC connector so you don't need icue to control it either

[cyan ravine]

Who made it

[earnest olive]

it kind of amuses me that the DC connector only has 1 pin out of the 3 actually connected

[paper summit]

You or pato

I'll just look ig lol

[cyan ravine]

Hmm

[earnest olive]

making a new part list is better than going looking for an old one

the time you spend will be the same and the old one might be outdated

[paper summit]

Or not search isn't working

[cyan ravine]

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/hPTtzf

?

[fossil cedar]

sir you missing a case

[cyan ravine]

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/XkKkpH

?

[earnest olive]

who needs a case

cases are optional components

dorm chair is the superior case

[fossil cedar]

also the b450 has no flashback smh bad techie

[earnest olive]

I mounted that h150i with no thermal paste btw

[fossil cedar]

skul

[earnest olive]

and 60% of the radiator was blocked by a solid box

[cyan ravine]

It was a micro center deal so presumed working

[earnest olive]

then I ran r23

it did surprisingly well

[fossil cedar]

ahh fair enough

[earnest olive]

held 4.1ghz all core with no pbo curve

thermal paste optional component

did you see the crazy octa socket build I did yesterday?

[fossil cedar]

send

[cyan ravine]

@paper summit did you find it

I can make one rq

[earnest olive]

my ipad has 8 cpus now

3600, 5600, 5800x, 5800x3d, 10400, 12100, 13400f, 13700k

[fossil cedar]

lol

you forgot the m1?

a12?

[earnest olive]

it's an m1

[fossil cedar]

9 cpus

uwu

[earnest olive]

but that's a soldered chip so still octa socket

[paper summit]

Search is broken

[fossil cedar]

ah yes

[formal mica]

Where you get stickers

[earnest olive]

I bought all those cpus

[cyan ravine]

Here
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/V4qp78

[earnest olive]

mx330-g

[cyan ravine]

It works

[formal mica]

I meant the other stickers

[paper summit]

Thanks lol

[earnest olive]

I like mx330-g

[fossil cedar]

bad techie no flashback

[cyan ravine]

Qflash

[earnest olive]

uhh my ex gave me a lot of stickers

[fossil cedar]

only on the b550 one

[earnest olive]

I dunno where she got them from

[fossil cedar]

i had a ds3h b450 trust me

[paper summit]

Rip

[cyan ravine]

Smh u rite

[formal mica]

Can I have ex number

[fossil cedar]

told u

[earnest olive]

💀

[cyan ravine]

@paper summit
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/yTBc9r

[earnest olive]

time to un-techie felix

he doesn't even fetch us coffee

[fossil cedar]

ikr

[cyan ravine]

How many times will I be untechied

Most comtroversial techie 2023

💀

[earnest olive]

the un-techieing will continue until morale improves

[cyan ravine]

• grabs another cigarette *

[fossil cedar]

i approve

[cyan ravine]

Sweet

Do I earn admin yet

[vague oracle]

There is morale here?

[desert gulch]

My deepest condolences

[fossil cedar]

previous

its all good now

[desert gulch]

You still had that moment in life you had that

[fossil cedar]

it was fine it was only a 3600

[vague oracle]

Should’ve put a 5800x3d on it smh

[fossil cedar]

it would have melted

[cyan ravine]

Tmw when an a520 was unironically better

[desert gulch]

But the vrms won't handle like a 400w 3600 on pbo smh

[coarse coral]

Delete techie role

[cyan ravine]

Do it

I'll be a free man

[desert gulch]

You kinda are already free

You aren't being paid either way

[coarse coral]

You do know that you were give a choose to not be techie if you wanted right

[fossil cedar]

we get paid in theocoin lol

[cyan ravine]

Jesus, he just double killed me

[desert gulch]

Major amount of copium

[fossil cedar]

he signed his soul over to wegg ofc he do

[desert gulch]

I thought it was a draft system

[cyan ravine]

I am yoking

Yes

[coarse coral]

[cyan ravine]

I signed unlimited year contract

Paid in theocoin

[coarse coral]

Theo coin crashed months ago

[cyan ravine]

I know

[desert gulch]

Nah

It's gonna pump

[cyan ravine]

I survive with bread

[desert gulch]

Buy it now before the rise

[cyan ravine]

I am hodl

[coarse coral]

Diamond hands

[flint sapphire]

Wait we don’t get paid for this?

[coarse coral]

You're not even a techie

[desert gulch]

Theo your checks haven't been clearing for me

[flint sapphire]

[coarse coral]

Who r u

[formal mica]

Who r u

[desert gulch]

Employee #23

[flint sapphire]

[formal mica]

Sus

[desert gulch]

Theo where's my W2

I gotta pay taxes man

[formal mica]

I'm about to spend 146 dollars in taxes at microcenter

[obsidian wolf]

Is usual

but what's the whole buikd

before you get out of there

[formal mica]

I'm not there yet but that's how much it said when I was about to checkout on microcenter 1 sec I'll get the list

Psu and storage got off newegg

[cyan ravine]

Solid build

That ak620 is the only thing I'd change

For a thermalright phantom spirit SE 120

[formal mica]

To what?

[cyan ravine]

41$

Better cooler and cheaper

[formal mica]

I was told I needed that one

[cyan ravine]

It's on amazon iirc

I helped make your list 😅

[formal mica]

Someone told me the other one wasn't good enough

I don't remember who lol

[flint sapphire]

I mean they are both fine,

Just one is slightly cheaper and better

[cyan ravine]

The phantom spirit is the best dual tower period

No competition

Anyone who says AK620 has their info outdated by 2 months

[flint sapphire]

The dark rock pro 4 has it beat in the screwdriver department

[obsidian wigeon]

phantom spirit now the new best?

[cyan ravine]

Yes

[obsidian wigeon]

now my knowledge has upgraded

thanks

[cyan ravine]

Np

[formal mica]

https://www.amazon.com/Thermalright-PS120SE-TL-C12B-S-Technilogy-Bearing/dp/B0BR3JQTSN/ref=asc_df_B0BR3JQTSN/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=652397596695&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=12328214566722671836&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9009210&hvtargid=pla-2008173940556&psc=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw_r6hBhDdARIsAMIDhV_y-I66YajmtsUu5HJK0v4Zie5DZ6z9lRvqIIviOML9rVLUBzumXb0aAlSYEALw_wcB

This it

[cyan ravine]

Ye that's it

[formal mica]

Ok I'll just get that and save 20 bucks and get something else I brought another 150 if I saw anything else

[flint sapphire]

I don’t think it comes with a long enough magnetic screwdriver though -1 point

[cyan ravine]

Np, pump that into your monitor instead

Get a gigabyte m27q

[formal mica]

Felix said that one was better

[cyan ravine]

Or m32u/m28u

I definitely didn't say the lg was better

Lol

[formal mica]

Oh

[cyan ravine]

I like the list but the m27Q slaps the LG

[formal mica]

That mod dood that's not online

[flint sapphire]

[formal mica]

Fal cie

[cyan ravine]

No rtings likes the m27q more

M27q also has clout

And a kvm iirc

Kvm's are amazing

Worth the $30 extra

Kvm means you can have two pc's with one monitor, keyboard and mouse

[formal mica]

I don't think they have at the store

[cyan ravine]

Probably another amazon thing

[flint sapphire]

Only potential issue with it is quality control, tends to be a bit bad and you’ll probably want to set cleartext in windows due to its odd pixel layout it goes bgr instead of rgb

[formal mica]

https://www.microcenter.com/search/search_results.aspx?N=4294966896

I'm trying to get everything at microcenter

Other than cpu fan and what I already bought

[cyan ravine]

Alr fair enough

[formal mica]

It's because I'm paying in cash

And to put cash in the bank for me I have to mail and no clue when that would happen

[cyan ravine]

Alr

Well it's not like a night and day better

LG is still fine

[formal mica]

If don't mind could you recommend me a monitor from microcenter Columbus ohio

[cyan ravine]

But the cooler was def worth doing

[formal mica]

Yea

[cyan ravine]

That lg monitor is ok for 250

No stress

[formal mica]

Ok then

Didn't know if there was a better one

[cyan ravine]

I had a quick look and didn't see a lot

[formal mica]

Is that HP any good

Nvm sold out

Or the lg

[cyan ravine]

Do they have the x27q (not c)?

The non-curved for 200 would be a banger buy

[formal mica]

I might ask when I go in just to be sure

[cyan ravine]

Ye

That LG, M27Q, G27Q, X32, X27Q

Grab the cheapest of those 5

M27Q for as much as 280

Whichever you land on

It'll be decent

[flint sapphire]

You can always go on rtings and check their suggestions

[formal mica]

I don't do that because sometimes I could be just the mothers that don't know anything saying it's good

[fossil cedar]

rtings is a company that does reviews its ppl who know what theyre talking about

not just random amazon reviews

[formal mica]

Lol

Ok misunderstood then

Anything else I should grab with the extra bucks ibhave

[cyan ravine]

Maybe go 4K if it's cheap enough

M28U/M32U

7900XTX more than capable of running 4k

[mossy citrus]

How much we talking about

[cyan ravine]

These are the only 2 monitors I'd recommend tho

[formal mica]

I think I'll pass

550

[cyan ravine]

550 would get an m32u

Or m28u

[mossy citrus]

Vr headset

[formal mica]

150 dollars extra

[mossy citrus]

Oh nvm

I mean u could look for a used Rift S

Thoes are like $80-120

VR isnt for everyone tho

[scenic stirrup]

How often should I replace my liquid cpu cooler, or change the paste

[cyan ravine]

When it doesn't work, 6 months to a year

[scenic stirrup]

I can just use normal paste right, I'm a noob

[mossy citrus]

^

[cyan ravine]

Yea normal paste is fine

[mossy citrus]

Thermal paste yeah

[cyan ravine]

Mx-4 arctic is normal

[scenic stirrup]

Alright thank you

[cyan ravine]

And great

Np

[mossy citrus]

And cheap

And delicious

🤤

[scenic stirrup]

I built this beefy ass computer with my brother and he left mealone to matinence it

[formal mica]

Socks to be you

[obsidian wolf]

Meh

Is it worth the extra 50 bucks for one if you have to do this every year

[flint sapphire]

[cyan ravine]

You should do that for air cooling too

I'm saying 6 months to a year to change paste

That's a given

[flint sapphire]

Or you can just cross your fingers and hope your paste isn’t dry and wait for the heat death of your cpu before repasting

[mossy venture]

He means change the paste

Not the aio

[obsidian wolf]

ah

[formal mica]

I haven't changed mine in 6 years

[formal mica]

Finally about to head to microcenter my parents hangout at ikea for 3 hoursb

[formal mica]

Guys

You broke my vank

Bank

[potent portal]

Meaning...?

The goal was to spend money wasn't it

[formal mica]

2200 dollars

Yes

But they had those monitors for 200 dollars

[gentle pollen]

what pc are you making?

[formal mica]

Bought two

350 dollar monitor for 200 each

[potent portal]

Ah but the curved ones are all VA and not IPS

[formal mica]

Idk the difference

[potent portal]

It'll still be fine but just not as good as it could be

VA has more "ghosting" and worse colors

[formal mica]

Idc about colors was about to only have one monitor

And this will be a upgrade from my 60hz 32 inch samsung monitor

But yea I got too excited when I saw them since it said out of stock online

[potent portal]

$200 is still a good price for that

Since you're used to curved anyway I doubt you'll care much about VA

It's still a nice upgrade

[formal mica]

I've been playing on a laptop for a year now I hope so

So should I update the bios @potent portal

Or wait to see if I have problems

[potent portal]

Is there a sticker on the box for the board that says the factory bios version? It's usually near the barcodes

[formal mica]

That's all the stickers I see

[potent portal]

It'll probably be fine but you can update if you have problems

[formal mica]

Ok

Did you see the case I had to end up picking since the other one wasn't big enough for my gpu

I'll send a picture of the build when I build it later

Or most of since I don't got psu cooler or storage

[obsidian wolf]

No

You don’t have to update the bios

Is the same deal I bought

My computer run from the get go

[potent portal]

Yeah but if it's on an old bios revision it can take a good few minutes to boot

It's less about compatibility and more about platform fixes

[gentle pollen]

Why is it when I start my computer it's still asking me if I want to load into Windows 11 or 10? I already used Disk Cleaner to remove Win10 from my boot drive.

[potent portal]

Run msconfig and see if 10 shows up in the boot tab still

If it is delete it

[obsidian wolf]

Well for me it took a minute

well more like 10 to 15

[gentle pollen]

this?

[potent portal]

yes

[formal mica]

Falcie could you send me a tutorial for how I transfer windows from HDd to sdd without wiping my hardrive

[potent portal]

https://youtu.be/lSdSNAjmdDg

[formal mica]

Thx bud

[earnest olive]

hmm…

I’m no expert on valorant but this seems suspicious

[formal mica]

Is it just the resolution you can't play Val on linux

[earnest olive]

who said anything about linux

[formal mica]

Idk

All I see is picture

With different resolutions

[potent portal]

And apparently LoL has the same fps at 1080 and 1440

[earnest olive]

that one actually sounds accurate

but valorant should be the same lol

[potent portal]

Right non-playable sounds like BS

Unless the gpu wasn't able to do 1440p at all

[earnest olive]

it’s a 5600g system for context

I can tell you for sure my 13700K igpu can run league at above 165 fps at 1440p

13700K oced igpu with tuned ram probably pretty competitive with stock 5600g and prebuilt ram

[potent portal]

Sad that it takes that much effort lol

[earnest olive]

well, the 13700K doesn’t have to lose an entire generation of cpu performance to include the igpu

[formal mica]

Is there a test to see the performance of your computer will get in games

[earnest olive]

and it does what I want it to do

[earnest olive]

yeah, it’s called games

[formal mica]

Smart ass

[potent portal]

In game benchmarks work, lots of games have them

[formal mica]

I knew you were going to say that

I don't have the pc built yet and wanted to know how it will perform

[earnest olive]

google benchmarks for your graphics card

[potent portal]

That'll depend on your settings but youtube benchmarks will give an idea

[earnest olive]

assuming your system does not bottleneck it

graphics card will be the main limiter

[formal mica]

7900xtx?

[earnest olive]

then google 7900xtx benchmarks

[formal mica]

Okay

[earnest olive]

put 7900xtx [resolution] [game name] in youtube

or watch a reputable 7900xtx review

[formal mica]

Could my cpu bottle nwck

Neck

[earnest olive]

what cpu

[formal mica]

7700x amd

[potent portal]

You can expect an average of about 180 fps at 1440p with that gpu

[earnest olive]

it could be the bottleneck if you’re gaming at like 1080p medium

[potent portal]

Some game will be more, others less

[earnest olive]

but at reasonable settings for a 7900xtx, no

[formal mica]

Ok

[earnest olive]

reasonable settings being 1440p high or 4k high

[formal mica]

Falcie if I wanted to do upgrades in the future what should I do

[potent portal]

That'll depend on the future of gaming

[formal mica]

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/PRntv3

[potent portal]

You're already about as high end as it gets as of today, we can't predict the future

[earnest olive]

bro didn’t even build it yet and is already thinking about upgrading

😭

[formal mica]

Lol

I don't know if I needed anything else

[potent portal]

It'll really depend on how you use it, what games you play, and how future games run

If you like to have hundreds of games installed at once, more storage. Things like that.

[formal mica]

Yea I was thinking of upgrading storage since I only got a 2tb ssd and 1 tb HDD

[potent portal]

See how much you actually use before upgrading that at least

You can always slap another M.2 SSD in later, they'll be cheaper then too

[formal mica]

Well that 1tb HDD is already full

Since I'm stealing from my old pc

[potent portal]

2TB will fit dozens of games easy

[formal mica]

I went from a Radeon 480 to Radeon 7900xtx

[potent portal]

You can fit more than 20 CoD installs into 2TB and that's one of the worst offenders for space

[formal mica]

Lol

But I could only fit 5 installs of ark

[potent portal]

With all the DLC maybe, that's an exception lol

[formal mica]

So would you rather paid for the LG for 250 and only get one or get two of these for 400

[potent portal]

It'll be fine, much better than your old ones anyway

[formal mica]

I'm just curious what you would have done

I felt kinda rush and didn't think straight

[potent portal]

I do a single good monitor and a cheap secondary

[formal mica]

So idk if it was bad idea or not

Ok

[gentle pollen]

Thanks for the tip man.

[obsidian wolf]

an xtx upgrade thinking is crazy

8090 perhaps

[formal mica]

?

I have a laptop that has a 3050ti but that only had 4gb of vram so kinda sucks

[obsidian wigeon]

he was talking about if you expect that massive upgrade again, it'd have to be multiple generations of gpus before tou can even get such an upgrade

[formal mica]

That was the plan

Because with the economy and what's going in the US it could go south real quick or it might be fine rather be safe than sorry

[obsidian wigeon]

I mean, futureproofing isn't a thing with a pc anyway since every few years the new thing comes out. But since you have budget for high end parts, might as well enjoy it

[formal mica]

Yea not doing that again for long time

I'm hoping it will last me 5 to 8 years but idk

Monitors look nice can't build pc till Friday because that's when psu is coming I hate how long shipping is

Can someone help me understand this auto hertz and resolution for the monitors

[obsidian wigeon]

What do you mean?

The monitors are 1440p 165hz

[formal mica]

Yea but that with only displayport

Is

[obsidian wigeon]

Then use displayport cables

[formal mica]

I can't till I build the pc I have it hooked to my laptop with hdmi and hdmi to USB

[obsidian wigeon]

Easy way to check the maximum support your current setup supports is getting into resolution settings

Not of the monitor, but within windows

[cyan ravine]

Some monitors enable higher hz using the monitor's osd

[formal mica]

Funny I can go 2k with the straight hdmi but hdmi to isb only 1080

[cyan ravine]

Yea that'll be a bandwidth limitation

[obsidian wigeon]

The hdmi adapter is of older version then

Or just usb bandwidth limitation

[cyan ravine]

Almost always bandwidth or edid

[formal mica]

Uh defiantly older bought in like 2017 or 16

Same with hdmi

To protect eyes

Which one is the blue

[obsidian wigeon]

Blue light honestly doesn't damage your eyes as much as you think

[formal mica]

My old ones only had two modes

Well my dad wants it on

[obsidian wigeon]

However setting warmer colors helps with eye strain

I would check the manual for that honestly

HP using some weird words

Set it to warm and see I guess

Or night mode

[formal mica]

I think warm might be right

Defiantly doesn't hurt my eyes as much as right now

[obsidian wigeon]

Warm or nights should be the ones

[formal mica]

Night looks kinda dumb

It's defiantly warm tho

Still stuck at 2k with 60 hertz

How does one go in opti.al mode

[south cliff]

You get it built yet?

[formal mica]

Can't till Friday parts coming in

And of course the psu takes the longest to get here

So I can't even hook everything up yet it's just in a box waiting to be built);

[gentle pollen]

Anyway to keep all my usb devices plugged in?

[formal mica]

USB hub?

[gentle pollen]

would a USB hub cause any quality loss?

[formal mica]

No idea I don't use one

I'd says so but idk

Quick Google search

[formal mica]

https://superuser.com/questions/437429/does-a-usb-hub-affect-performance

[frigid night]

This is def a good read. Make sure to read further down than the first comment.

[potent portal]

USB spec allows for 255 devices on a single port, so it's designed to handle things like that. (obviously you'd need powered hubs for that many)
As that post mentions, any time you add more wire to things latency must increase. It's pure physics. That extra latency is minimal when you add up system latency, though.

[dusty cedar]

sounds a whole lot like dmx channels

without the latency issues obviously and with some minor differences.

[tardy pecan]

Amalgamation of parts new and old I'm putting together for my brother's 18th bday as a gift

Should I change anything?

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/DbTMzf

[fossil cedar]

You can get them an id cooling se214xt which is basically the same cooler and save like a dollar, but you've purchased everything but the cpu and cooler so not much i can say for the rest lol

If you bought the 970 evo plus recently for 70$ and can return it (if you have time) i would because that's a bad price for it these days

Same for the memory bad for the price these days but they're probably your old used parts

[tardy pecan]

I was originally going to throw in a SP A80 but I remembered how recently one I had died after a month. Left a sour taste in my mouth. Missed the deal for the 55$ 970 evo :(

[tardy pecan]

60$ is bad for 32gb of ram? Dang

[fossil cedar]

Well 70 is

[tardy pecan]

ooh

Would you say the 12400f is a powerful enough CPU for his needs? He really only plays games or occasionally photoshops / lightly video edits

When I upgrade my GPU in a year or two I wanna toss my 6800 in his system

[fossil cedar]

If you can return the 970 Evo I'd grab this instead https://pcpartpicker.com/product/3s92FT/solidigm-p41-plus-1-tb-m2-2280-pcie-40-x4-nvme-solid-state-drive-ssdpfknu010tzx1

My bad actually i misread the the 59.99 as 69.99

[fossil cedar]

Yep

[tardy pecan]

I paid 70$ for the SSD, 60$ for the ram

[fossil cedar]

Yeah ssds not good price, ram is

[tardy pecan]

This looks like a much better deal if it too has SLC cache and a DRAM buffer

[tardy pecan]

I do have a 970 evo in my system and I quite like it. Wanted to give him a drive I know from experience is reliable

I use mine as a game drive

[fossil cedar]

They're decent drives but they've been priced horribly for the past year anyway

Drives dying is extremely rare

[tardy pecan]

yeah really too close to a gen 4 drive

Usually only a couple bucks difference between that and a 980 pro

[fossil cedar]

The random speeds on the p41 plus are crazy for the price

980 pros price has been terrible for a while too

Still usually priced like an S tier but it's only an A tier these days

[tardy pecan]

Dang

How bout the SN850X?

I paid like 160 for the 2 tb version as a boot drive

[obsidian wigeon]

eh

no need for such drive

just p41 is pretty good

[fossil cedar]

Great drive although honestly a waste of money for someone who's not doing production workloads or something

[obsidian wigeon]

^

[fossil cedar]

Most people need high random speeds because that's what you use day to day

[obsidian wigeon]

hell i would go as far as saying budget drives such as mp33, a60 and the likes are enough

for what this person does

[fossil cedar]

And the sequential speeds are usually hardly ever even fully utilised for game downloading etc cus you're bottlnecked by your internet speeds lol

[languid nimbus]

I’m getting new internet soon, gonna be 2gb (hopefully). My mobo is limited to 1gb, so if I get something like this https://www.amazon.com/NICGIGA-Ethernet-Interface-Adapter，-Compliant/dp/B0BG2CZTYC/ref=pd_aw_ci_mcx_mh_mcx_views_0? , would that work?

Also - do I need cat6e Ethernet cable or 7?

[fossil cedar]

Yep, do you mean 5e,6 or 6a? Btw

I can't find anything about a cat 6e

[languid nimbus]

https://www.amazon.com/Ethernet-Internet-Snagless-Connector-Shielded/dp/B08XPLSS9S/ref=asc_df_B08XPLSS9S/?

Oh woops this says 6e lol

[fossil cedar]

Hmm

Well cat 6 does 10gpbs under i think 30m

[languid nimbus]

Gotcha, so if I was gonna run an Ethernet around ~85ft, but still want to try to keep internet speeds as fast as possible, what would I need?

[fossil cedar]

85ft is like 28ish metres so you should be able to do 10gbps with cat 6

[languid nimbus]

sweet, perfect

Thanks!

[fossil cedar]

Np

[languid nimbus]

https://www.amazon.com/Ethernet-2000MHz-Internet-Connector-Switches/dp/B08629DGMW?th=1&psc=1 so I’m finding this and it’s around as cheap as I can find 6a or anything, would there be a reason to not go with cat8?

other than price

[jagged ember]

Flat cables are garbage imo

I had a shorter 25ft flat cat6 cable and half the time it couldn't even keep up gigabit

Returned it immediately

[cyan ravine]

My cables are flat and long

But my internet is so ass I'd never know if I was scammed

[tepid roost]

can someone recommend a good 240mm cooler for am4?

[languid nimbus]

Hmm, so I plan on running my internet to a building that’s behind my house. Hence why I’m needing a cable that’s fairly long. I plan on burying it & putting the cable in a PVC or metal pipe, then having a router at said other building to plug the Ethernet into

[cyan ravine]

Thermalright phantom spirit 120 SE is $41 on amazon and better than a 240 aio

It's a dual tower

Good aios start at like, 60-80-ish

Not really worth double for the same or worse perf imo if you can fit a dual tower

[tepid roost]

what are the temps for the thermal right

[cyan ravine]

That is a very broad question

[tepid roost]

the highs lol

when gaming pretty much

[cyan ravine]

Still broad, implying it's the same across any cpu lol

[tepid roost]

cause mine normally runs 70-80 which I'm not a fan of

oh my b

5600x

I forgot the cpu part lol

[cyan ravine]

Oh you don't need even a 240 aio for that nor a dual tower

What cooler have you got rn

[tepid roost]

70-80 is not good temps to me

cooler master hyper 212

which sucks tbh

[cyan ravine]

Ah the bleh one

[tepid roost]

yeah never been happy with it

[cyan ravine]

Very much a meme cooler nowadays

Well the thermalright will run like 1-3C cooler than 240 aios typically

[tepid roost]

ok

so what would that probably be on a 5600x

[cyan ravine]

You will still have relatively high temps in a lot of situations tho, it's by nature on a 5600x

[cyan ravine]

Overkill by definition

[tepid roost]

overkill is fine

overkill is good

lol

[cyan ravine]

Especially if it's an old hyper 212

Big improvements

But a single tower should technically be pretty sufficient

[tepid roost]

the thermalright is 38 lol no reason not to get it anyways

for future upgrades as well maybe

[cyan ravine]

You should be able to run pbo on 24/7 for years under 95C on a single tower

Yeah for upgrades I can agree

Phantom is good enough for almost any am5

[tepid roost]

alright well I'll get that, thanks

[cyan ravine]

Np

[tepid roost]

@cyan ravinecan you recommend me a decent mobo too?

I need to upgrade my mobo now

[earnest olive]

why?

5600x will run on any mobo that it's compatible with without problems

you can run a 5600x on super weak vrms

[tepid roost]

this mobo I'm using is missing features and has issues

thanks to my friend not taking good care of his stuff at the time

I don't have front ports nor usb 3.0

[earnest olive]

you could solve those with pcie cards for cheaper if the rest of the board is worth keeping

what board is it?

[tepid roost]

b450 tomahawk max

also if I upgrade I can give this to a friend so he can sort of upgrade cause yes

[earnest olive]

this would be cheaper than a new mobo

[tepid roost]

I'm not worried about it being cheaper rn

[earnest olive]

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/PDsnTW/msi-b550m-pro-vdh-wifi-micro-atx-am4-motherboard-b550m-pro-vdh-wifi

[tepid roost]

also I want it atx lol not micro

[earnest olive]

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/7gxbt6/msi-b550-a-pro-atx-am4-motherboard-b550-a-pro

[tepid roost]

sorry I should of specified

thanks

[earnest olive]

very unlucky that it won't be ryzen 5000 ready out of the box at this point

but in case that happens, it has bios flashback anyways

has front usb 3.0 and front usb-c

no wifi not sure if you need that

[tepid roost]

I also have a 3600x still I can use if it's not

don't need the wifi so it should be fine

[obsidian wigeon]

you can use the 3600x to update bios

but the board has flashback anyway

requires no cpu to update bios

[formal mica]

What can of intake and out for fans

I have 3 intake already I have two for the top and the back what do I do with them

I figured just two more intakes and the back fan the outake

[obsidian wigeon]

what's the case?

i kinda forgot honestly

[cyan ravine]

Front intake top rear exhaust

[formal mica]

What about two up top

Lian li flow 2 usb c

[cyan ravine]

Ya exhaust

Front intake top and rear exhaust

[formal mica]

Ok

[cyan ravine]

Oh wait you're doing tower cooler rite?

[formal mica]

?

[cyan ravine]

In that case no top fan

[formal mica]

Yea got the one you recommed

[cyan ravine]

Ye the phantom

[formal mica]

It's in shipping now

[obsidian wigeon]

one exhaust on the back side

[cyan ravine]

So no top or front most top intake

[obsidian wigeon]

fans on top not needed cuz it'll steal intake

[cyan ravine]

Ye

[formal mica]

More intake?

[cyan ravine]

Up to u

[formal mica]

I got two fans

[obsidian wigeon]

it's up to you really

[cyan ravine]

It's a 7700x

[obsidian wigeon]

but never use top fans, unless it's for intake

but intake top fan sucks in dust so oof

[cyan ravine]

Speaking of fans

I've somehow managed to route 22 fans to 1 hub

[obsidian wigeon]

that's a nice looking case ngl

[formal mica]

Yea I'm glad for the person that recommended it

Literally someone picked up the white case then layed it back down. Then I looked to see if it was a black one and he almost had a heat attack since that's the one he wanted but he put back on the shelf

Someone also said that's a nice case once I left microcenter right outside the doors

[formal mica]

It has two spots for fans at the bottom

[obsidian wigeon]

you can use those for intake if you want

direct air for gpu

never ever use them for intake, because it'll do the same as top exhaust

steal air from the parts

[formal mica]

You mean as exhaust?

So is 5 intake and 1 exhaust any good

Or bad

[obsidian wigeon]

that's fine

just as long as no fans are stealing airflow

[formal mica]

So should put the last two intakes at the bottom

[obsidian wigeon]

mhm

[formal mica]

Ok

1080 to 2k

is a big jump

idk how I used to play with 1080

can someone help me understand this mess

nvm

[olive cypress]

On the left you got the specific name of the res, then you get how it is commonly named, the aspect ratio is just the ratio of pixel (short side compared to long side) and then the actual pixels (long side first)
You can also calculate the number of pixels of one side if you know the aspect ratio and the number of pixels on the other side

[obsidian wigeon]

it's why we don't call 1440p 2k

it's not true 2k

[formal mica]

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/NCVWgb

Fans installed idk if I should've waited till I motherboard in but o well waiting till Friday now to build the rest

[gentle pollen]

Oh so the only concern would be latency. Any hubs you guys recommend?

[formal mica]

nope

Google search

why does it say im new here still

@fossil cedar whats the best cpu can get on LGA 1700 scoket for around 250

in your opinon

[fossil cedar]

for gaming?

[formal mica]

yes

[fossil cedar]

um probably the 12600k(f)/13400(f)

or used 13600k(f) if you count that

[formal mica]

Now does E cores help at all in gaming I cant remeber

my brother used to have this i3-12100f, but he just bought this for 230 at microcenter i5-12600k my parents asked me if he wasted his money

[gentle pollen]

No.

Not unless your P cores are also handling background tasks.

In which case those tasks get moved to the E cores

[formal mica]

Okay thats what I though

[formal mica]

https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i5-13500-core-i5-13th-gen/p/19-118-429 Wouldnt this have been better?

[gentle pollen]

Looking at it, the 12600K is a bit of a. Upgrade since some games can take advantage of 6 P cores and the e cores would take a load off the P cores by handling background task

[formal mica]

when did newegg do combos lol

[fossil cedar]

For gaming no it's basically a 13400 with an extra 4 e cores, e cores aren't used in gaming

[formal mica]

yea but he bought i5 12600k for 240

that wouldve been more for his money would it not

[gentle pollen]

....

Why, just why.....

🤦‍♂️

A 13900K I get but for a 12600KF?!

I think I solved the USB issue.

I forgot that my headset stand has a built in USB hub.

[fossil cedar]

so would a 13400f?

[formal mica]

yea there was a bunch of different option

might be a little lat for asking but the 7900xtx gpu I bought does it have OC on autmatically

or it just a option

[cyan ravine]

Option, not really necessary

[fossil cedar]

Uh if it says oc in the name it'll have a tiny tiny factory oc that's basic stock

[gentle pollen]

Why does my audio keep going in and out?

[cyan ravine]

Welcome to ryzen

[gentle pollen]

.....

What does that mean.

[cyan ravine]

It's a common problem

[gentle pollen]

Please tell me there is a way to fix it.

[formal mica]

Well I want it off?

[cyan ravine]

It's off by default

[formal mica]

ok

just making sure

[cyan ravine]

There's a couple ways

[formal mica]

Didnt know since it said OC and didnt think much about it

[cyan ravine]

Update bios/reinstall audio drivers, increase vsoc/VTT/IO(?)

[cyan ravine]

Well it'll have a factory oc but it means basically nothing

Think of it the same as stock

[gentle pollen]

Would updating bios also reinstall audio drivers?

[cyan ravine]

No

[formal mica]

so its not going to tear up my card is it

[cyan ravine]

No

[gentle pollen]

what is this? increase vsoc/VTT/IO(?)

[cyan ravine]

It's actually quite hard to break an XTX in any standard use case, even with OC

[formal mica]

Well I want the card to last as long as possible

[cyan ravine]

The card will happily run at twice the power it's set up to do

[formal mica]

not just a year or two

[cyan ravine]

OC won't shorten the life

[formal mica]

Over clocking I was taught it tearing the card up for a little bit more performance

[cyan ravine]

Nope

It's actually very safe

[gentle pollen]

I think that was only an issue like way back.

[formal mica]

then idk anymore

Still dont want to overclock its fine since its off already

[gentle pollen]

It's no longer an issue nowadays if it ever was.

[cyan ravine]

It's 3 bios voltages you can increase to remove audio issues

@formal mica promise you the card won't break from any OC anyway

[gentle pollen]

Do you know a good video on how to do those steps because the audio going in and out is driving me a bit nuts.

[cyan ravine]

@earnest olive can you help this lad cos I forgot the audio crackle fix

And I'm tired

[earnest olive]

isn't he using a 5700G?

[gentle pollen]

Please help!

[formal mica]

Hopefully I get a good card with thermal paste reading some more reviews and some people have bad paste applied

[gentle pollen]

Yea.

[earnest olive]

not sure if it's gonna be the same

5700G is monolithic right? @cyan ravine

[cyan ravine]

Yes

Far had the crackle problem on 5600g

[earnest olive]

yeahh I dunno if it's gonna be the same when the chip doesn't have an I/O die

but you can try it

[cyan ravine]

It's the same issue I just can't remember the steps

[earnest olive]

download zentimings and see if it reports your VSOC, VDDP, and VDDG voltages

[cyan ravine]

I'm here to help fix it if you have a problem

[gentle pollen]

your telling me this yes?

[earnest olive]

yes

[gentle pollen]

Okay, gimme just a sec.

[earnest olive]

0.75 VDDP seems like a mis-read, but I'm not familiar with these chips

go into bios

set 1.1 vsoc, 1.0v VDDP, and 1.0v to both VDDG voltages

see if that fixes your audio

[gentle pollen]

Is that safe?

[earnest olive]

probably higher than needed for ddr4-3000, but well within safe tolerances

[formal mica]

Ill be here on friday if I have any

[gentle pollen]

any quick way to access Bios without needing to reboot the pc?

[formal mica]

no

[earnest olive]

bios is completely separate from OS, so no

[gentle pollen]

Okay I am in bios.

@earnest olive would I find those settings in Tweaker?

[earnest olive]

I'm not familiar with asus bios

[gentle pollen]

Using gigabyte.

[earnest olive]

might be in there

huh

[formal mica]

https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Line-Interactive-1500VA-Watt-Outlets/dp/B07RWMLKFM/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=1WQ86LV3Z78QB&keywords=ups%2Bamazon%2Bbasic&qid=1680984148&sprefix=ups%2Bamazon%2Bbasic%2Caps%2C149&sr=8-1-spons&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFZNVZSRkVLVVpCN04mZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTA4NzIyMDhYVDdBMDJPTTI0RyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMTMzNjcyM1JWU0lYNjBDSEY5NCZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&th=1 Will this be enough for my pc

[earnest olive]

thought tweaker was what asus called it

holy url vomit

anyways, just look for them and show me anything you think might be it

[gentle pollen]

Is VDDP one of them?

[earnest olive]

yes

it'll probably reveal VDDG when you set a manual VDDP

[gentle pollen]

It's calling it CPU VDDP.

Set it to 1v?

[earnest olive]

yes

[gentle pollen]

Oh wait it's only saying + or minus volts.

[fossil cedar]

If you don't touch the voltage that's literally impossible, you can usually do a decent amount extra on gpu core and memory

[earnest olive]

ugh, gigabyte why?

is this b450?

I remember being able to set them manually on b550 aorus

[gentle pollen]

B550M DS3H.

[earnest olive]

ah

ds3h maybe that's why

[fossil cedar]

I heard ds3h what's up

[earnest olive]

he's falling victim to ds3h bios of death

only marginally better than dell bios

[fossil cedar]

I had no problems with ds3h

[earnest olive]

inability to set manual vddp is a problem

I think I had the same issue on my b450m ds3h wifi

no manual vsoc

[fossil cedar]

Like only option is auto?

What i had manual vsoc

[gentle pollen]

These are the VDDP options.

[earnest olive]

hmm well I have zen 1 cpu in it maybe that's the issue lol

[fossil cedar]

Mayhaps

[earnest olive]

disgusting

give it +0.1

[gentle pollen]

Done.

[fossil cedar]

If you do normal i think it'll open up an option to type in value

[earnest olive]

no vddg control?

maybe it'll be in settings > amd overclocking

[gentle pollen]

Shoot, I am sorry but I gtg are you guys available later?

[earnest olive]

though my asrock b350 pro4 could do manual vsoc with the same zen 1 cpu

[fossil cedar]

I'll be asleep

[earnest olive]

and the gigabyte b450m ds3h wifi couldn't

[earnest olive]

probably not

[fossil cedar]

🤷

[gentle pollen]

Ooof ok.

[earnest olive]

I'm almost done with lunch

gonna go back to work for a very long time

[fossil cedar]

Oh btw i did have vddg control, it wasn't in the main area tho, had to go into like overclock in a separate section

[formal mica]

any reccomendations for pc fan hub controller

[dusty cedar]

isnt that determined by the brand of fans you have?

since everything these days needs to be "proprietary" instead of universal for some reason

[formal mica]

I have artic fans I just dont have enough space on motherboard

https://www.newegg.com/en-labs-10-inches-25cm-pwm-fan-splitter-black/p/1W7-005X-00083?Description=fan splitter&cm_re=fan_splitter-_-9SIACJFB5E6745-_-Product&quicklink=true idk is this healthy

[dusty cedar]

i dont see why not. so the issue with that is the header is only capable of putting out so much power and if you exceed it then it wont be able to put out enough to power everything plugged into it. so youll have to figure out the total power draw of all the fans you plug into it and your headers max output

[formal mica]

How much does a 120mm fan usually take

[dusty cedar]

if you're within its limits then its fine. if you exceed it you can damage your header or there just wont be enough power being supplied to the fans

[formal mica]

thats what i thought if it was healthy or not

[dusty cedar]

fan specifications should be printed on the box they came in or on the sticker of the fan itself

just dont exceed 24w and you're good.

[formal mica]

I think I should be good

.08 A

Any 1 cpu fan takes 2A

Sys fan I mean

[dusty cedar]

amps don't really matter. power draw is on the wattage i think. i might be wrong but thats what google is for

[formal mica]

Well that's all for the specs

So what .08 times 12

[flint sapphire]

So artic p12s should be daisy chain-able, should have a header hanging off

[formal mica]

What's that

[flint sapphire]

Can just plug groups of them in together

[formal mica]

How I do that

[flint sapphire]

^something like that

[formal mica]

No

[flint sapphire]

Welp

[flint sapphire]

They don’t have this cable hanging off?

Ones the plug another one is a fan header?

[formal mica]

It's all by it self single fan port

[stoic island]

Only pwm pst is daisy chain

Normal p12 pwm doesn't have the extra connector

Use splitters if you don't have enough headers

[formal mica]

Nvm the fans with my case are daisy chain just looked

Now I know daisy chian is a thing lol

[fossil cedar]

Only the pst versions are, btw

[leaden mauve]

lmao it was the board, not the cpu

i said so like 4 times

[green egret]

Is it ok to daisy chain 2 NON-RGB fans and 1 RGB fan?

[potent portal]

W = V x A
So a 1A header at 12V is a 12W capacity, 2A at 12V is 24W, 2A at 5V is 10W, etc etc

For those fans, at full speed they'll be at 12V x 0.08A = 0.96W

[stoic island]

Daisy chaining the 4 pin pwm connectors, yea, trying to plug 4 pin RGB into 4 pin pwm? Just don't

[stoic island]

Do keep in mind it'll only be doing 1 speed though, and with different fans, it might mean weird rpm result

[green egret]

Yea my cooler master fan is only a 3 pin fan anyway

I just didn’t do it

Ty for responding

[stoic island]

Yw

[potent portal]

A 4 pin fan will work in DC (3 pin) mode but a 3 pin fan won't work in PWM (4 pin) mode

As mr1111 mentioned if you chain 2 different fans together you'll get a RPM reading from only the first fan

[formal mica]

What are molex from my power suply do

[stoic island]

Not always useful nowadays

[formal mica]

what were they for?

[strong raft]

Fans & even longer ago, hdds/disc drives

[stoic island]

It can still be used as extra power for anything as long as you have the converter for it, not that it's recommended to use those adapters

Still commonly seen in prebuilts for fans and rgb/argb

[fleet heron]

Yo @gaunt yew we got such similar specs lool

[south cliff]

i got almost the same thing bruh just diffrent cooler and case

same everything else

[fleet heron]

we all basically got the full expensive rgb setup lmao

https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/Y997tn

[formal mica]

so if I dont have enough space on motherboard I could hookup to a molex

[stoic island]

What

[formal mica]

a fan

[dusty cedar]

No

[formal mica]

darn then they are useless

[obsidian wolf]

Techies

what is a good 4k monitor?

[formal mica]

its 550$

dont remeber what its called tho\

[dusty cedar]

You can get some fans that are able to be daisy chained and it will free some headers up on your board.

[formal mica]

already bought fans to late lmao

its fine I was just curious and wanting to learn

since I have 6 of them

[dusty cedar]

Or get something from corsair or lian li that come with controllers that use the USB header on your motherboard then you plug all your fans into the controller instead.

[obsidian wigeon]

The fans doesn't use molex

And they can be daisy chained

Usually a header can take up to 9 fans

Or almost 20 if it's gigabyte with 2 amps on the header

[formal mica]

its 2 amps its a msi

thats what it said in manual

[obsidian wigeon]

Yeah then you can basically daisy chain all of em

Pretty safely

[formal mica]

if had daisychain

[obsidian wigeon]

Is it the pst model of p12?

[formal mica]

the fans I got only got fan headers

i believe so

I showed picture earlier

[obsidian wigeon]

Yeah that's daisychain able

[formal mica]

how?

[obsidian wigeon]

The connector that looks different than the one you use to connect fans to mother board is where you plug the fan connector into

Use only one fan to connect to the board and you're done

Connect the plug to socket of another fan

Repeat until you're at the last fan

Then use that last fan's plug to connect to the mother board

Into the 4 pin pwm header

[formal mica]

I dont got the pwm socket but maybe the other fans with my case do since they are diasy chained

[obsidian wigeon]

https://youtu.be/sKi_7UVF3z0

I'm sure you should have them if they're pst

[formal mica]

scroll up pwm

[obsidian wigeon]

Well it looks like it wasn't pwm lol

[formal mica]

lol

[obsidian wigeon]

wasn't pst i meant

Then you'll want a fan hub

[formal mica]

itll work how it is now can I use the daisy chain with the fans that come with the lian li

[obsidian wigeon]

Since you'll be running lots of fans

It can work if the motherboard has enough headers to support all your fans that you're putting in there

Otherwise a fan hub is easiest

You can get 10 fan arctic fan hub for 10 bucks

[formal mica]

can I use pump fan

for anything?

[obsidian wigeon]

Yes

It's just another header

[formal mica]

ok then i got just enough

[obsidian wigeon]

Use cpu fan for cooler cause it's closest to the cooler

[formal mica]

I have two fans with cooler

[obsidian wigeon]

Those two fans will be daisy chained

Only needs one header

[formal mica]

oh then i have a empty slot

ok then im good on slots

[obsidian wigeon]

Probably won't need a fan hub then

If you do well you can always get one of course, it's $10

[formal mica]

not waiting anymore its already killing me I have to wait till friday

[obsidian wigeon]

That $10 will fix any headaches

[formal mica]

with 7900xtx on the dineing room table

[obsidian wigeon]

Yeah you can get the hub later if all the fans aren't be able to be used

It'll still work fine with no fans added into the case

[formal mica]

Wish I wouldve got those 30$ rosewill on newegg for the same price i got mine

[gentle pollen]

Why does my computer keep booting to this weird screen?

[formal mica]

what screen

[formal mica]

click enter

what happens?

[obsidian wigeon]

hm

[gentle pollen]

Will try again just restarted

[obsidian wigeon]

well that's probably no os detected

[gentle pollen]

Nothing happens.

[formal mica]

yea

[obsidian wigeon]

did boot drive go missing from it?

[formal mica]

it should say something tho

[obsidian wigeon]

check on bios

[gentle pollen]

Can't access bios.

[formal mica]

uhhh

[obsidian wigeon]

turn it off

[formal mica]

reboot

[obsidian wigeon]

hold down the power button and turn it back on

then try to get into bios

[gentle pollen]

Spam DEL?

[formal mica]

f2 usually

[obsidian wigeon]

ya

[dusty cedar]

if thats how you get into your bios then yes

[obsidian wigeon]

Spam whatever key for bios

Then once you're in go into boot devices menu

[gentle pollen]

Brought me right back to the same thing.

[dusty cedar]

rip

[obsidian wigeon]

Take out all the drives in your system

It should put you into bios as a test

[dusty cedar]

sounds like its time to buy a new motherboard

[formal mica]

thats what i was about to say lol