storage-devices

[dusk turtle]

"So AMD came up with 'Gear Down Mode' which is sort of like 1.5T. It's more compatible than 1T, less compatible than 2T, and sits in the middle in terms of performance penalty. One of the consequences of 'Gear Down Mode' is that tCL timings are rounded up to the nearest even number. Odd numbers don't work. If you really really want to run tight timings, disabling gear down mode is an option - but it's up to you to decide if that's the best option-whether you'll see a performance benefit vs clocking higher isn't for me to say."

[untold grove]

3.5

get netapp tho

[radiant root]

is this temp ok for nvme?i didnt install the stand offthings tho

[upper quiver]

yeah sure

[untold grove]

yea

[shell jetty]

Ok so, more storage per drive im guessing?

[untold grove]

yea

like 4 12tb drives or whatever

and basically

you can go i5, i7, or i9 depending on how many threads you think youll need

[shell jetty]

Ok

[untold grove]

most ppl just need 6c 12t

you want to build it? cause u can get old servers for cheapish

[shell jetty]

Building's my hobby lol

[untold grove]

well

let me see

3k budget right

[shell jetty]

Baseline yes, can go a little more

[untold grove]

idk id do something like this

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/TnbB7X

with a raid card

which u cant add in pcpp

something like a LSI 9211-8i in IT mode

this is only if you need lots of fast cores though

i still think the better thing to do it get a r720 or 730 from dell (ebay it) and some high core count cpus, lots of cheap ram, and a netapp disk shelf

and just go to town on that

[split fern]

can i get an hdd recommendation

[untold grove]

size?

[split fern]

2- 4 tb

[untold grove]

2tb, wd blue

4tb, toshiba x300

[split fern]

thank

[untold grove]

me with buying fat hard drives

[fair shoal]

What is a good cheap 1tb ssd

[dense ibex]

Just buy a 2tb drive.

It's much cheaper, especially in the long run

[dense ibex]

2tb wd blue or Seagate barracuda

Its like $10 more for 1 TB so..

[untold grove]

no barracuda

[dense ibex]

Why not?

[untold grove]

smr

[dense ibex]

Its not a bad drive though

[fair shoal]

I heard seagate has slow read and write

Oof I forgot to mention portable

[dense ibex]

?

[fair shoal]

A portable 2tb hard drive

[minor sun]

Wd easy store pretty good drives iirc, @untold grove aren't they reds?

[untold grove]

no such thing as good portable drive

[fair shoal]

Just for storing games

When I built my pc I have 500 gb and I assume I should have about 2tb or should I do 4tb

[olive wadi]

@untold grove https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B015MSJ1DG/ref=crt_ewc_title_srh_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A29Y8OP2GPR7PE Any idea if the molex to sata adapters on this are going to burst into flames?

Or are they of decent quality

[untold grove]

i have 0 trust for any molex to sata

[olive wadi]

luckily i have a sata to sata splitter that should work

[round shoal]

Is okay to use just 2 screws to screw ssd on the mounting tray? Cos i don't have any spare screws, only have 4 which already used on the ssd (boot drive).

[somber remnant]

yea lol ssds dont move

[fluid harness]

Okay so my hard drive and ssd is on my computer and it’s only showing storage for my boot drive (ssd) yet my hard drive is still being detected on my computer and I don’t know how to store anything on it

[fluid harness]

Nevermind I fixed it

[deep cobalt]

ffs why are you here

[minor sun]

@deep cobalt why not

[untold grove]

nice moe shop pfp lol

[round shoal]

What storage drive is the "best" as backup storage drive?

[amber matrix]

any recs for a 2tb+ nvme drive?

sort of interested in a higher capacity sata drive instead for the price, just want to expand storage beyond my 1tb nvme rn

[narrow sorrel]

Do you have more than one m.2 slot?

If so you can probably just get another one of those 1 tb nvme and run the two in RAID 0 mode and you'll have a roughly 2 tb storage space

[amber matrix]

I do but I'm not sure I wanna get into raid

on an x570 board, booting on a gen4 drive

[narrow sorrel]

Anyways, the Samsung 970 Evo Plus is always a good nvme and it does come in 2tb, I've heard some good things about the Firecuda 520, I believe the Sabrent Rocket 4 and the Rocket 4 Plus is also really good as well as the Q4 but the Q4 is QLC, so take that as you will. The Western Digital Black SN750 is rather good and it comes in 2tb and 4tb options, though the 4tb price is just vomit-inducing

[amber matrix]

yeah, higher capacity nvme drives seem to have rather prohibitive prices atm

[obsidian steeple]

Raid 0 doesn’t give extra space, just stripes drives for better performance.

[narrow sorrel]

I didn't say it gave extra space, I said to just get another 1tb and effectively combine the two to get more storage on a 'single drive'

[obsidian steeple]

Maybe I should have said that RAID 0 does not increase capacity.

[narrow sorrel]

Oh yeah, I know it doesn't increase total capacity

[olive wadi]

or use your brain and buy a mushkin pilot E

or team mp34

or even better

a p31 gold

[olive wadi]

[minor sun]

Rocket is good tho

[wraith monolith]

me with my kingston a100 for OS 😳

[narrow sorrel]

I use an old 850 evo for my OS

[untold grove]

max 1tb

[olive wadi]

SIR 2tb is on the way SIR

[olive wadi]

rocket generic e12 drive moment

sure if its cheap

its on par with mp34 and pilot E

[untold grove]

am girl smh

and yea rocket just generic drive

generally ok value tho

[olive wadi]

sir is a gender neutral term

[untold grove]

????

[rancid pike]

wot

[thick mulch]

he is not wrong

in Spanish if you dont know you say el

kinda same deal

[narrow sorrel]

...That isn't how the word sir works in English

[amber matrix]

corsair mp600 because I am big pepega

[untold grove]

cring

[amber matrix]

zoom

[olive wadi]

corsair mp600

zoom

phison e16

are you sure about that

[amber matrix]

more zoom than my friggin 2tb hdd from my old build

[minor sun]

There's a rumored Corsair drive that'll prob be on e18

[olive wadi]

ok but who cares

more flash nand garbo

[minor sun]

Lol

[olive wadi]

using flash nand instead of phase change memory

[minor sun]

Man, just use ln2 for everything, easy performance

[olive wadi]

intel be like: guys i swear it's not using phase change memory

[narrow sorrel]

I've got a hodgepodge of storage, 2tb HDD, 500gb SSD and 2tb of puap SN550

[olive wadi]

SN550 moment

[minor sun]

I have a mp510 that just has dead writes for some reason

[olive wadi]

rma

if writes are actually poop could be poopy controller

"hey drake where did the SLC cache go"

[minor sun]

Hm maybe

[narrow sorrel]

I mean, the SN550 does the job. It takes the games I shove on it and stores them, when I have to reinstall my entire mod collection it does the zoom gud, so meh

[minor sun]

I have a few CDM runs around here

@olive wadi it's weird

[olive wadi]

SN550 is base

[minor sun]

Seems like a good amount of mp510s actually do that for some reason, I slapped a heatsink on recent too since it was going fairly warm

Just in case, but writes still low

[olive wadi]

ive heard of some E16's being broken and not handling the SLC cache incorrectly

id hit up corsair and see what they say

[minor sun]

Weird

Yea I saw some posts on corsair's forums from like 5 years ago

And it was just Corsair rep replying they'll send it to the engineers, and then 3 pages of "my drive too"

@olive wadi on mobile rn, do you know corsair's policy on RMAs/returns before I have to do the annoying reading their return policy?

[olive wadi]

no idea

[olive wadi]

meh

SSDs are often inconsistent performancewise once you start filling them up

[minor sun]

I'm just short of formatting it, and I'm lazy and don't want to backup ma stuff

Though I can't complain with 1000mb/s write, I can def use it, and I have been

[olive wadi]

mhm

[minor sun]

Also, <50% usage

[olive wadi]

could be something inthe background working aswell

[minor sun]

I thought it was because I was filling it up when it was like 70-80%, cleared a lot off, still weird writes

Yea there could be, that's why it could be my time to format the drive at some point

Tho that means I'll be forced to use my ms30 for a bit

[olive wadi]

drives with dynamic SLC caches are always going to have mildly inconsistent sequential writes

[minor sun]

@olive wadi dunno man, it's dead set on consistently performing at 1000mb/s writes

Since like July last year

[olive wadi]

broken dynamic SLC? 😎

Go ask newmaxx

[minor sun]

@olive wadi I think I know of em (maker of sheet), but who are they?

[olive wadi]

industry insider who knows a lot 😆

[minor sun]

Oh interesting

[untold grove]

??

[quaint yew]

Are PCIE 4 Nvme drives worth it or naw?

[dusk turtle]

IMO, naw

[quaint yew]

mainly bc I have an Asrock b450m Steel Legend and it has an Ultra M.2 port but when using a pcie 4 nvme drive it disables the second pcie slot

[past peak]

i thought b450 only had 2.0 and 3.0?

[quaint yew]

b450m steel legend has 2 m.2 ports, 4 sata ports, 2.0 and 3.0 usb and 3 pcie slots

[past peak]

and also, don't buy a gen4 drive if you don't know why you need it, on top of that, if you buy one you'll be limited to what gen 3 offers instead of gen 4

[dusk turtle]

wat

[past peak]

frick i messed up my words

hold up

[dusk turtle]

If oyu meant it only supports PCI-E Gen 3, that's correct

[untold grove]

most worth it drive is p31 gold rn

[quaint yew]

teamgroup mp33 pro?

[untold grove]

no

[olive wadi]

Buying a pcie gen 4 ssd for a motherboard without pcie gen 4 support

now this is epic

[minor sun]

lol

@olive wadi you don't know if they're using the old launch day (? it was early on) bios with pcie 4.0 >:D

[olive wadi]

[minor sun]

there were a few b450 boards that got pcie 4.0 tho

that was funny, and then they had to take support away

[olive wadi]

through bios mods

[frosty pewter]

What is the difference between these?

[fallow crescent]

sn750 better

notably better

[frosty pewter]

how if you dont mind me asking?

like speed wise?

[fallow crescent]

i believe sn550 is dramless

but yes 750 is faster

550 = Up to 2400 MB/s

750 = Up to 3470 MB/s
(Max Sequential Read)

[fair shoal]

So what is a good read and write sped for games?

[thick mulch]

@fair shoal in game it generally does not matter

[untold grove]

honestly no difference between sata and nvme for gaming rightnow

[fair shoal]

I know

[untold grove]

so like 500 read 400 write

[thick mulch]

Its just how much time u have to wait

[fair shoal]

Ok

But uhhh is 75-120 good?

[untold grove]

no

[olive wadi]

Yes the SN550 is dramless, no it doesn't mean it's a bad SSD when priced appropriately

The SN750 is 100% better, that's sort of why it's higher in the product stack

[fallow crescent]

no, not bad

just better

[olive wadi]

But myaswell just buy the mushkin pilot-E

$10 more than the SN550, $20 less than the SN750

[fallow crescent]

or mp34

[olive wadi]

And stands closer to the SN750 that the SN550

MP34 is also fine

myaswell buy a p31 gold if you're paying $130 for an SSD

[fallow crescent]

i think sn850 is out now as well

[olive wadi]

@untold grove Do you understand the relationship of the bit line and word line in nand flash?

I'm trying to understand the terms of being pulled high and pulled low in context to their relationship in the very reason why flash nand is called nand. you might not and i dont blame you 😅 but they you had storage queen in your name so maybe you know

[olive wadi]

pcie gen 4 meme lol

[untold grove]

dude im so high right now lol

def not the right person to ask

[olive wadi]

NAND flash

lol transistor in funny shape

[untold grove]

but basically

uhhh

its like cells go in strings

[olive wadi]

yea no i get that lol

i understand that the cells are in series

[untold grove]

the strings are organized on blocks

each string in block goes to a bitline

[olive wadi]

and i understand that it's called nand because when all of our word lines are pulled high, our bit line is pulled low

[untold grove]

and control gate is connected to wordline

[olive wadi]

yes

i do get this

but like

lol

whats pulled low and pulled high mean

like

ok so

when the bit line pulls low we're sending electrons through the cells right?

because there's a path to ground

but whats pulled high mean and what is the word line doing with the control gate when its pulled high

or is this just because when it's pulled high it's erasing all of the cells

like how it do dat

[untold grove]

idfk lol

[olive wadi]

lol

[untold grove]

this is outside my field tbh

i do hard drives

[olive wadi]

still unsure if i should throw these magnetic dust filters on right next to my servers drive cages

[untold grove]

https://www.elprocus.com/pull-up-and-pull-down-resistors-with-applications/

this looks like what ur looking for tho

they use nand as example

[olive wadi]

thank you

[untold grove]

np

[olive wadi]

i think ive gone too deep down the ssd rabbit hole without actually being in EE or CE

[untold grove]

lmfao

i feel that

im just sysadmin who hoards data for fun

[olive wadi]

me when CPU talk

me when SSD talk

[untold grove]

lol

[olive wadi]

did you figure out if like lol its fine to just slap magnetic dust filters by hard drives

[untold grove]

me when hdd talk:

[small steppe]

windshields#9982 has been warned

Reason: Bad word usage

[untold grove]

yea shouldnt be an issue if case makers put them so close lol

[olive wadi]

bad word usage

mfw cant say the poopy word

like i get that hdds use funky magnetic wacky woohoo magic to change the polarity of little bits on a disk for ones and zeroes so its affected by magnets and stuff but like is a regular dust filter magnet actually powerful enough to mess with that?

and is there long term issues???

[untold grove]

i dont think so lol

but then again

i dont keep my hdds near magnets enough to find out

lol

[olive wadi]

might come up with an alternate solution

i have a rosewill rsvl-4500 and it has this really thick foam filter in the front thats like too thick to be a filter

its more like just blocking the front of the case with packing foam

so i was just gonna throw some magnetic dust filters over the fans there and get rid of the thick foam filter

[plush crag]

Pulling high/low is a general electronics term.
e.g. the tach/rpm sensor pin on your mobo's fan header supplies 12v in series with a 10k "pull up" resistor that acts as a current limiter.
2x every fan revolution, the fan will "pull down" that voltage to 0v

[plush crag]

You can remove that filter, I took the entire front panel off all of mine l4500's, also https://forums.serverbuilds.net/t/official-rosewill-rsv-l4500-owners-thread/2724

[olive wadi]

Trying to understand how it relates to the function of controlling the control gate though

[olive wadi]

lol yea i know it's just that i want to replace it with something

and im having anxiety about putting magnets near my hard drives because im dumb

[amber matrix]

sorta tempted to get the gammix s50 while it's on sale

[dawn plover]

If anyone can help im looking to upgrade my ram and HDD to an SSD 🥺 i currently have 2x500 hdd and realised thats what's bottlenecking and my rams only 2x4gb ta

[thick mulch]

Uuh that isn’t really how it works

Ram and SSD are for the most part separate

I would say slap a samsung SSD in there (NVME if a boot drive- Sata if you want to save a buck) and get some Gskill ripjaws v RAM @dawn plover

16g 3200mgz

(If you have DDR4)

[minor sun]

@thick mulch I mean, keep in mind, that sounds like it could be old enough that it might not even have m.2 slots

[untold grove]

pcie card moment

[minor sun]

@untold grove imagine if it's only PCI, 500gb sounds kinda recent now that I think about it though

[untold grove]

500gb is like 2004

[olive wadi]

samsung

mfw you tell people to drink the samsung jamba juice

and not buy ssds that are priced properly

[untold grove]

samsung drives good tier

[plush kelp]

bruh what

people in corsair discord are saying 860 evo > mp34

[dusk turtle]

Well, they're kinda not wrong

MLC

Typically more TBW than TLC

Depends on what they're saying exactly

[plush kelp]

yeah but

its $1 cheaper for better sequential read/write and random read/write

well, they trust/recommend the 860 evo more

[dusk turtle]

Well, TBH, load times between Sata and NVME don't vary much

[plush kelp]

hmm, so its better to get the 860 evo?

[dusk turtle]

Depends on how you define better

Speed wise? M.2 NVME is better. Life span wise? MLC will probably last longer

[plush kelp]

alright

[untold grove]

i trust samsung nand over toshiba

lifespan doesnt matter for most consumers

[plush kelp]

so both would be fine at $115?

[untold grove]

i mean

ehhhhhh

the mp34 has higher rated tbw

[dawn plover]

Cheers ill have a look. My pc came prebuilt back in 2014 im considering buying a whole new set of parts. Kinda want an itx

[thick mulch]

uuh

do you want a new ITX or a beefed up prebuilt?

BTW if its from 2014 you have to use ddr3 for RAM and SATA ssds

[olive wadi]

are they high

[olive wadi]

860 evo isnt mlc lmao

There are literally no more consumer drives sold anymore that use MLC besides the 970 pro

[dusk turtle]

"SAMSUNG 860 EVO Series 2.5" 250GB SATA III V-NAND 3-bit MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) MZ-76E250B/AM"

K

[olive wadi]

post link

oh poop lol it might actually be mlc

OH 3 BIT MLC

LOL 3 bit mlc is tlc @dusk turtle

😆

both TLC and QLC are technically MLC but we think of mlc generally as 2 bits per cell

[olive wadi]

No a sata tlc average performer like the 860 evo isnt worth that much at all

would be worth around $85-90

on par with the mx500 which is within performance parity

[white canyon]

What's the difference between dual rank and single rank memory

[loud estuary]

Ltt just did a video on that

[blazing osprey]

best m.2 nvme drive money can buy?

[past peak]

the 8tb rocket q

crazy how 8 tb fit in that thing

well that was storage-wise, don't know about performance-wise

[olive wadi]

kek

[olive wadi]

For what capacity?

[blazing osprey]

dont matter

1 TB

[olive wadi]

The capacity doesn't matter?

The most expensive thing worth buying would be like an SK hynix p31 gold

[blazing osprey]

lol

anything reasonable 1TB

[olive wadi]

SK hynix p31 gold would be the most money worth spending

$130-$140 for 1tb

best option without paying for meme gen 4 drives

[untold grove]

its what they call their god tier tlc

[olive wadi]

god tier

Tlc

nand in general

[untold grove]

i mean ive gotten great mlc level endurance from samsung tlc

[olive wadi]

nand level endurance

wtf do you even do with your drives that endurance is actually a factor

big write cache for big data?

[untold grove]

yep

[olive wadi]

how many drives have you actually managed to eol

just buy optane 905p's

[deep cobalt]

why thank you

[untold grove]

uwu

[deep cobalt]

what?

do people here not know how Raid0 works?

2 1TB drives in Raid0 are 2tb

[untold grove]

some dont i guess

lol

[deep cobalt]

striping isnt redundant

it doesnt lower capacity

Raid1 for example would

also SSD raid is suicide

cool article on RAID in ssds

[rancid pike]

Looks like we have a new storage person lul

[deep cobalt]

doesnt exactly scale well

[deep cobalt]

nah I'm more of a ram and mobo person

I'll leave the tedious storage stuff to @olive wadi

[rancid pike]

;-;

[olive wadi]

i actually have a question for you related to general electronics

[rancid pike]

Still seem to know more than most, so that’s storage person in my books lol

[deep cobalt]

btw @olive wadi I'm playing more of DMC5 today

[deep cobalt]

DM

[olive wadi]

So lets say we have a wire that's pulled up, and a wire that's pulled down in the same circuit

the wire that's pulled down would be 0v?

[plush crag]

Depends who pulls harder

Oh damn, sup @deep cobalt

[olive wadi]

i dont follow

[plush crag]

You don't want that situation

So doesn't matter

[olive wadi]

what situation?

I'm asking this question because of flash nand

NAND flash is called nand flash because when all word lines are pulled high, the bit line is pulled low

from my understanding because it allows a path to ground

[plush crag]

Ya, I don't know anything about how nand works on a low level

[olive wadi]

So, pulled low just means that we're lowering the voltage?

And pulled high means we are raising the voltage?

[plush crag]

It means pulling the voltage past the threshold of either a "logic high" or "logic low"

Depends on the circuit, that could be 5 volts, 12, w/e

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic_level

[olive wadi]

ah

that would explain a bit more as to the naming of a nand flash

[dusk turtle]

It's more of a NOT AND or Negative AND. It works the opposite way an AND gate does

[olive wadi]

i understand what a nand gate is and why nand flash is called nand

it's just more like

"lol whats the bit line doing when its pulled low"

pretty sure the state of all word lines being high and the bit line being low is what the flash nand uses to erase a page

[dusk turtle]

hmmmmmm

Reading a white paper quickly

High voltage opens the Word Line, and the bit line is used to indicate whether or not the cell has data in it. IE, no voltage = empty, X voltage = data. WIth NAND it's not necessarily pulled low but the state is checked to indicate data or not

"Cells in the selected
wordline with grounded bitlines experience a high electric
field across the floating gate and the substrate, triggering the
FN tunneling. After each pulse, a verify read is performed
and cells which have reached the desired level of charge are
inhibited from further programming. This can be done by
biasing their bitlines to a high voltage. "

To erase a cell, they negatively charge it to wipe it

[frosty pewter]

The crucial p1 is faster then the Samsung Evo plus?

[untold grove]

not at all

[frosty pewter]

What’s the fastest nvme that’s 1tb that’s not super expensive

[untold grove]

define super expensive

[frosty pewter]

Like below 200

[untold grove]

i mean sn850 is like $230 for 1tb

https://www.amazon.com/WD_Black-SN850-NVMe-Internal-Gaming/dp/B08KFS6THF

if you just want dumb fast

otherwise

https://www.amazon.com/SK-hynix-Gold-PCIe-Internal/dp/B08DKB5LWY/

[frosty pewter]

Thanks

[deep cobalt]

hey forks its been a while.

not much

stepped away from OC for a bit to focus on eng. side of tech

[olive wadi]

@untold grove sata power y splitters safe to use for SSDs?

such as this

[untold grove]

yea

[olive wadi]

thanks

using one of these 2 ssd caddies

[untold grove]

[steel crane]

new here, can anyone help with m.2 and u.2?

I have 2 M.2 key M slots, one m.2 e slot, and one u.2 slot - which should I use for the operating system? / fastest

[upper quiver]

depends on the form factor of your ssd

if you have an M.2 key M ssd, thats the slot it goes in

key e is mostly used for things like wireless NICs, not storage

and if you bought a U.2 ssd you probably overpaid for it

[olive wadi]

u.2

[wise grotto]

The current state of SSD tech is the most confusing matter I've ever come across in more than 20 years of computer tinkering.

[wise grotto]

I've got a lot of questions about M.2 SSDs too.

[nimble robin]

Ask away then

[wise grotto]

It's hard to know where to even start. I'd like to upload a picture to clarify things but I don't have enough discord cred yet to do it. Basically, I think I have a SSD that is mislabeled as NVMe but I'm not sure. It has both B+M key slots but I have not found a single upgrage drive that is NVMe that has B+M keys.

[dusk turtle]

M.2 SATA

Or just give us the brand and model

[wise grotto]

I'm thinking its mislabeled from HP because the flip side of the SSD has another sticker referencing a HP part number that turns out to be for a wireless card, not a SSD. I'm shooting in the dark.

[dusk turtle]

Model number? Part number?

[untold grove]

use hd sentinel to find the model number and look at that

also hd sentinel will tell you what interface its usi g

[wise grotto]

Nice!

[untold grove]

like ill be honest here

90% of drive questions asked here can be answered by hd sentinel

[wise grotto]

Where do I find hd sentinel?

[untold grove]

let me get u link

[wise grotto]

the sticker shows HP P/N: L18845-001

[untold grove]

ugh their cdn is so slow

[wise grotto]

I wish I could just share the pictures

[dusk turtle]

That's an SSD

256 GB

[wise grotto]

Correct.

[dusk turtle]

It is M.2 SATA III

Not NVME

[untold grove]

https://cdn.lili.gay/$/ctzOz

[dusk turtle]

Sata drive, M.2 connector format

[wise grotto]

It's a WD SSD labeled as NVMe but I think it's wrong

[untold grove]

have my mirror since their cdn is wanting to do like 12kbps

[dusk turtle]

NVME is just a storage format

NOT a drive type

Non-Volatile Memory Express

It can be M.2 PCI-E or SATA

Actually, here's something that may help you

https://www.kingston.com/unitedstates/en/community/articledetail/articleid/48543

It's a chart with all the different kinds of storage 🙂

[wise grotto]

AHHH so much info!!

[wise grotto]

Downloaded. Thanks!

[untold grove]

:))

[dusk turtle]

Ya, it's an M.2 SATA III drive

[wise grotto]

I could strangle the bozos at HP for mislabeling this thing

[dusk turtle]

It's not mislabeled though

The storage format is NVME

WIth a Sata connector

in the M.2 format

[wise grotto]

HA F$%! me

[dusk turtle]

LOL!

It's confusing

[wise grotto]

Only a lot

[dusk turtle]

You looking for a bigger drive?

Or a replacement?

Ort just info

[wise grotto]

Yeah. I've got 256GB right now and I've already bought a 1TB SSD to replace it which brings me to the other half of the dilemma

[dusk turtle]

Which SSD?

[minor sun]

No longer rumor, it's true that mp600 pro is e18

[untold grove]

p31 gold master race

also

[wise grotto]

I want to find a compatible external enclosure but I need to know what I have in front of me before I can buy something

[untold grove]

not buying from hp master race

[dusk turtle]

Ah

[untold grove]

enclosure for?

the sabrent one is cute

[dusk turtle]

External enclosure for the M.2 SATA coming up

[untold grove]

so is the orico one

and the asus one

[dusk turtle]

https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-SM2NGFFMBU33-M-2-SATA-Enclosure/dp/B00T8F298Y

[wise grotto]

external enclosure to allow me to clone the 256 to the 1TB replacement drive and then set up for a dual-boot Win10/Kubuntu

[dusk turtle]

Clicky linky

[untold grove]

https://www.amazon.com/SSK-Aluminum-Enclosure-External-Based/dp/B07MKCG5ZG

my linky clickier

[dusk turtle]

There are limits to how cheap I go lol

[wise grotto]

Well, you kids are awful friendly and helpful to us, grey around the temple old farts.

[untold grove]

ive used this one

was perfect for 1+ years

plus connects as usbc

[wise grotto]

Thanks!!

[dusk turtle]

I get the idea that the PC they're working on doesn't have USB-C lol

[wise grotto]

I have a Pavilion X360

It's got a USB-c

[dusk turtle]

IT does

[wise grotto]

I bought this as the replacement: https://www.newegg.com/western-digital-blue-1tb/p/N82E16820250092?Item=N82E16820250092

[dusk turtle]

Perfect

[wise grotto]

I'm hoping I didn't get the wrong thing. I couldn't find anything keyed the same as the original but still NVMe

[dusk turtle]

Nope, you're good

[wise grotto]

I think the NVMe thing really threw me the curve ball

If I understand correctly, I shouldn't suffer much performance-wise with what I bought but it would have been nice to be an exact match

[dusk turtle]

Yeah, it's just a memory format, not a drive type itself

SATA is speed limited anyway

So it honestly doesn't matter

[wise grotto]

I also wasn't sure If I could get a drive with just the M key (NVMe) and have it work.

So what's the big diff with the keying? As if the rest of the SSD world wasn't confusing enough.

[dusk turtle]

Just the M key, no, that's probably a PCI-E card

PCI Express has just the one slot

SATA has 2

Like this

[wise grotto]

Yeah, I didn't get a good look at the connector on the MB since it was still mostly connected to everything in the system when I pulled the original drive. To make matters worse, it was on the bottom of the board and upside-down from my perspective.

[dusk turtle]

yeah, it's best to just check the drive to be honest

That will tell you SATA or PCI-E

[wise grotto]

here it is:

FInally!!

[late vector]

sn520 ouch

[dusk turtle]

It's sata

[wise grotto]

Enlighten me on SN520

[dusk turtle]

Model number

We are used to PCI-E drives

They are WAAAYYYY faster

[wise grotto]

Yeah, It's definitely not a powerhouse of a laptop but it zips along just fine for me

Have a laugh looking up this part # from the back side of the SSD

[dusk turtle]

Hmmm

well, they do make M.2 WiFi cards you know

BUt that's a mistake lol

[wise grotto]

That's what made me think the label on the other side was wrong too. I couldn't find another SSD that was keyed the same and also NVMe.

Maybe I'm talking myself in circles

[dusk turtle]

The issue is that you're focusing on NVME

Focus instead on the connector type, IE Sata or PCI-E

[wise grotto]

I'm learning.

I haven't worked on many laptops. I've build plenty of tower PCs back in the day - 15-20 years ago.

[dusk turtle]

these are in pc's now too

[wise grotto]

I've been out of the game for quite some time and I've missed a LOT

[dusk turtle]

That happens, tech moves too fast

[wise grotto]

Plenty of catching up to do

You ain't kidding

Well this has helped immensely!

[dusk turtle]

Sweet!

[wise grotto]

At least I feel better about the drive I bought. It should drop right in.

[dusk turtle]

it will

[wise grotto]

I just ran the hd sentinel and got this

Now I'm confused again

[minor sun]

Oh fun, you got one of the very very VERY few M.2 B+M NVMe drives

B+M key is SATA 99% of the time as far as I know

[wise grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/crazy-insane-stewie-family-guy-finals-gif-5655336

[dusk turtle]

What the heck is THAT!!!!

[wise grotto]

simpler days:

[minor sun]

pata?

[dusk turtle]

Ye

[wise grotto]

I picked a real winner of a laptop I guess.

[dusk turtle]

I can't even anymore

Hmmmm

[minor sun]

sn520 is literally the only drive I know that's B+M NVMe lol

[dusk turtle]

So replacing that will be fun

The question is

[wise grotto]

So, the new drive I bought won't work?

[untold grove]

u can just m key

[dusk turtle]

Is the socket on the board M or B+M

[untold grove]

iirc

[dusk turtle]

Mebbe or mebbe not, depends on the socket lol

[wise grotto]

I'd have to tear into the laptop again to find out. The service manual I have for it is just about worthless.

I should have taken more pictures.

[azure solar]

laptop's are cancer to get into

so many screws and panels

laptops*

[wise grotto]

It's like putting the pin back into the grenade

This laptop isnt that bad to get into. I still feel like something is going to break every time it pops another snap loose

getting done with no spare parts is always nice

[dusk turtle]

I always end up with an extra screw

[wise grotto]

Probably didn't need it there anyway

I once tried to repair a laptop screen that came from the factory with a whisker from someone on the assembly line between the backlight and the LCD

It didn't go so well.

[minor sun]

I know where one of the extra screws I ended up with came from on my laptop

[dusk turtle]

Me too

And I sure as HECK wasn't going back in for it

[minor sun]

and it's just annoying because no way I'm opening it back up just to slap it in

[dusk turtle]

This 100%

[wise grotto]

So, I have to tear this thing open, again, to confirm how the slot is keyed so I can either use the drive I gambled on or have to RMA the thing and go with somthing different. Awesome!

[untold grove]

one of the thinkpads i sell

to repaste it

you need to take the entire board out

and its built where u literally need 100% disassembly

[wise grotto]

I suppose the days of laptops with easy access panels on the bottom are long gone.

[pallid cloak]

is a wd black sn750 2tb with heatsink good ?

[untold grove]

define good

[pallid cloak]

like is it reliable and fast ? are there some better than it at the price point its at its like 250-300

[frosty condor]

good
/ɡo͝od/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
1.
to be desired or approved of.
"a good quality of life"
2.
having the qualities required for a particular role.
"the schools here are good"

Lol, you did ask 🙂

[pallid cloak]

lol

[untold grove]

its ok

[pallid cloak]

so not worth the price ?

[pallid cloak]

u

[amber matrix]

mushkin pilot e 2tb on sale looks tempting

[olive wadi]

P31 gold

[olive wadi]

SK hynix 31 gold

[red jay]

Debating whether to get get a second m.2

Currently running a Sabrent Rocket 4

Maybe get another one, or a 4 Plus

[olive wadi]

sabrent rocket 4

phison e16 time

[minor sun]

@olive wadi what's special about the P31?

Good nand or smth?

I think it was a E12 drive

[olive wadi]

128 layer meme 4d nand and very good random/mixed IO performance at its price point

[olive wadi]

no its proprietary 4 channel controller

[minor sun]

Hm interesting

[olive wadi]

also power efficiency

is like

very good

the controller is called the sk hynix cepheus

[minor sun]

tbh I never care about ssd power consumption because 1w vs 3w doesn't matter to me in a pc

[olive wadi]

it's more like "lol it doesn't need a heatsink like the P5"

[minor sun]

Ah

[exotic oasis]

Hey guys solid question. I'm getting a new 250gb ssd delivered later and I want to put my boot drive on it. Any tips on the best way to do that?

[red jay]

make a backup and install windows on that SSD

[exotic oasis]

You mean just do a fresh install?

[red jay]

yes, but before that, backup your old hard drive if you are migrating the data, if not, just install it

[exotic oasis]

Nah I pretty much only have games on the current and only drive so no data migration is necessary

[red jay]

ok, so just install

[exotic oasis]

thanks man i appreciate the help

[signal rose]

I need help finding an M2 SSD for a Sony Vaio SVF13N13CXB to replace a Crucial_CT500MX200SSD4. I don't think an NVME SSD will work but don't know what I'm doing. The Crucial website doesn't show any compatible ones for this model. It's old but still working and is a good backup travel laptop.

[shy sphinx]

Can anyone help me with my m.2 it's not showing up in my bios and idk how to make it appear

[untold grove]

too old

[lean quest]

@untold grove I kinda messed up how bad did I kill my raid card here, I pressed on the thing it said to not press on oops

The main heat things are fine so I think it’s fine?

[untold grove]

does it work

[lean quest]

Idk haven’t turned it on yet hah

Gotta cut my keyboard plastic because it doesn’t fit in the rack...awkward. So sad

[plush crag]

That warning is only there so you don't burn yourself

[untold grove]

yeah lol

it gets toasty

[lean quest]

Oo good to know

So I’ve got my drives in caddies now and I’m still getting no drives shown when I try to install xcp-ng

[untold grove]

did u make an array?

[lean quest]

Uhh no I’m trying to install on my ssd drive

[untold grove]

is the ssd on the backplane?

[lean quest]

...backplane?

[untold grove]

yes

if you are connecting drive to backplane you need to pass it through on the raid card

[lean quest]

It’s in my hot swap 0 bay

Rn

[untold grove]

does it show up in the raid controller

[lean quest]

Also got a “perc1 battery failed check battery” error on my little display

[untold grove]

fun

u need new raid card battery lol

[lean quest]

I haven’t managed to get into bios yet... it always doesn’t work when I click on bios it seems to ignore my input

Seems like if something wrong with my brand new raid card I bought off eBay I should have the seller fix it...

Well... “brand new” aka refurbished on eBay

Made it to bios

5 disks show

Not my ssd though

Hot swapping drives seems fine except my first drive...hmmmm

Oh cool it says my ssd going to fail

[untold grove]

lol

rip ssd

[lean quest]

Or the adapter

Idk even what’s wrong

Not sure if there’s a good way to tell

Couldn’t figure out the raid in the bios menu either I’ll figure it out later ig

Is there a way to tell if it’s my adapter or ssd that’s bad without haveing another drive to test with

Rip can’t install still, bios shows 5x 2tb but when im installing xcp-ng it doesn’t show anything ok cool well this might be a problem for tomorrow...

[untold grove]

u need to make an array silly

[lean quest]

??? 2tb should be enough to install a 70gb max hyper visor on

Like yea not having array isn’t ideal but it should still work?

[untold grove]

ugh

can u get to ur raid card menu

you need to make an array to pass drives through

literally if u just want 1 drive passed through

make a raid 0 using one drive

does that make sense @lean quest

[lean quest]

I’m in some sort of settings menu now but I can’t switch it off of whatever I picked first

Oooo I did it

Made a raid 0 first drive

[untold grove]

ez

[lean quest]

have installed a hypervisor

we makin progress

ty @untold grove

[untold grove]

what one

[lean quest]

Xcp-ng

trying to figure out the idrac passthrough rn

[minor sun]

@untold grove prob going to be like 1k$, but fast as hecc

[deep cobalt]

the 4.0 plus?

200$/TB more or less

E18 is the current best 4.0 controller

until SM2264 comes out

the statement that its the fastest is sadly not true
that honor goes to the HOF SSD

[minor sun]

seq?

I think it should hold the top for seq write

[deep cobalt]

it isnt

[minor sun]

seq read might still be sn850/980 pro

[deep cobalt]

te HOF is

[minor sun]

thought the hof was e16

[deep cobalt]

theres an E18 HOF

thats the one I'm talking about

[minor sun]

Hof 4.0 extreme

aparently

haven't seen any testing on it yet

[dusky tapir]

does anyone have any suggestions for storage
here is mine

[minor sun]

wat

[dusky tapir]

inland premium 512 gb

it wont let me send the link

[minor sun]

sata or nvme

[dusky tapir]

nvme

https://www.amazon.ca/Inland-Premium-512GB-Internal-Solid/dp/B07PB5C36M

[minor sun]

it's overpriced, but the drive is fine in general

[dusky tapir]

ok

[minor sun]

I'd just grab a sn750 for ca market

[dusky tapir]

do you have any suggestions

[minor sun]

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07MH2P5ZD

[olive wadi]

cringe

phison e16 is superior

i just like it more

@deep cobalt in regards to our previous convo when the word line is pulled high, all of the control gates in the page are positively charged

the control gate isn't what forces the current to pass through the N-channel, we control the drain/source voltage separately

but the control gate needs to be positively charged to allow it to pass

when current flows through the source/drain/n-channel it pulls the bit line low

Basically "in order for the bit line to be pulled low, all word lines must be pulled high" in order to allow current to pass through on the bit line we have to modify all word lines.

🕺

so neither of us were right

kek

[red jay]

Guys i am install a 970 evo but it just isn’t sliding in

[untold grove]

unfortunate

are you putting it in upside down lol

[red jay]

Nope

[untold grove]

it clicks in

[red jay]

It’s not for me

[untold grove]

pic?

[red jay]

Dm

[untold grove]

you press it in

[red jay]

Not working

It just won’t go in

[amber matrix]

Try changing the angle

They slide in from kind of an upwards angle before screwing down

[red jay]

Not working

Help

[dusk turtle]

Huh. Thats odd. What board?

And will it fit in the lower m.2 slot?

[red jay]

Nvm got it

[olive wadi]

Doesn't even look like you were pushing it in

[untold grove]

^^^

[torpid adder]

An anemic push, but evidently it worked

[tacit coral]

So I’m trying to connect a router to my modem but my modem has no WAN port. It has 4 Ethernet ports. What should I do? Connect the router to one of the Ethernet ports or what?

[lean quest]

Depends on the router you might be able to set one of the Ethernet ports to wan otherwise if it’s a router modem you might be out of luck, gotta search google for your specific router

[dusk turtle]

Oop

They posted in Electronics too

Already took care of them XD

[upper quiver]

if your modem has 4 ethernet ports and no wan ports its a modem/router combo

oh

[dusk turtle]

IKR

Didn't realize they double posted

[short lodge]

@untold grove what's a good 4TB HDD to use as a secondary? not too expensive...
all the semi-cheap ones I see are 5400 RPM, but idk

[untold grove]

toshiba x300

[short lodge]

thank you

[olive wadi]

@untold grove How are the toshiba N300 as nas drives?

[untold grove]

id imagine theyre fine

[olive wadi]

👏 💯

[quaint yew]

should i take my ssd out of my laptop and put it into my tower?

[minor sun]

y tho

[quaint yew]

honestly idk

[thick mulch]

@shrewd vector easeUS mobi mover

My go-to, not crazy popular but is pretty simple and has never let me down

[mossy wren]

if i plug in my HDD after everything is done will it just detect as if it were an external harddrive plugged into USB?

[untold grove]

aomei

not free tho lol

[deep cobalt]

great

P300 better

but N300s are fine

toshiba's Helium-filleds have always been good

[olive wadi]

already ordered a seagate exos instead

Why would P300s be better than the N300?

[deep cobalt]

I assume your NAS wont be on 24/7?

if it was gnna be on 24/7 n300
if not the higher speed of p300 would make more sense

not to mention cheaper iirc

[dusk turtle]

p300 SMR though, slows down for large loads

N300 isn't

[candid mural]

I have a problem my 970 evo plus doesn't want to be a boot device

I installed windows on it but in the bios it still shows not bootable

I changed the UEFI. Tried new Bios

[quartz crag]

quick check on compatibility: would this SSD (Sabrent 2TB Rocket NVMe PCIe M.2 2242) work with my MSI X470 Gaming Plus Max mobo?

[untold grove]

p300 trash tier because smr

[olive wadi]

assuming my NAS wont be on 24/7

my nas is also my game server SIR

muh uptime

[atomic robin]

I would send something cursed here (personal image) but im level 1 lol

[whole fossil]

uhh is there a way to hook up an external storage drive to my brain?

[untold grove]

iirc doesnt clone os

[inner osprey]

WIll this suffice for a boot drive --- WD Blue™ 3D NAND SATA M.2 2280 SSD, 500GB Read: 560MB/s; Write: 530MB/s

[minor sun]

Why not grab a mp34 or even helix l

[inner osprey]

Getting confused over nvme and sata

[dusk turtle]

NVME is simply a storage format

Pay attention to SATA and PCI-E

[inner osprey]

Meaning ? Faster read/write or if the mobo will accept it as a boot drive?

Sorry, noob questions and questioning what i read online

[minor sun]

PCIe goes brrrrt
Much faster on paper, relatively just a tiny bit faster in real-world scenarios, until you're moving like 10GB files around for fun

[inner osprey]

Not moving anything large at all, just for school/woprk/gaming

[dusk turtle]

The other thing is

Some M.2 are PCI-E only

and Sata won't work so check your MB manual

[inner osprey]

With PCIe 4.0 M.2 Slot supports up to 22110 and provide NVMe SSD RAID support for an incredible performance boost. Create a RAID configuration with up to two PCIe 4.0 storage devices to enjoy the fastest data-transfer speeds on the 3rd Generation AMD Ryzen platform.

[dusk turtle]

Perfect

[olive wadi]

what

nvme is a format?

mfw i can reformat my usb flash drive to nvme

[dusk turtle]

Keep it up

[olive wadi]

there isnt such thing as an nvme drive that doesnt use pcie

that im aware of at leasr

u.2 is still pcie

[dusk turtle]

Well, better go learn some more then

[olive wadi]

???

all nvme drives use pcie as a databus you are confused @dusk turtle

just like how all ahci drives use sata as a databus

nvme is a storage protocol not a format

you are having a brain moment

[olive wadi]

aight

nvme and sata aren't even directly comparable technically

since both words mean completely different things, ones referring to a storage protocol the other is referring to a data bus

but for simplicity sake ill refer to them as nvme and sata

most of the time if you are a consumer you're going to get an nvme drive in an m.2 form factor, which goes into your motherboards m.2 port

drives which use sata can come in either m.2 or 2.5" form

nvme is the better storage protocol when compared to ahci (what's used in sata drives) and has a whole host of benefits that you may or may not notice

but they also really aren't that much more expensive than 2.5" drives if you know what to look for

[olive wadi]

this drive is sata

because it says sata in the name

[untold grove]

lol

[olive wadi]

you can also generally tell by the m.2 keying but there are some nvme that use b+m key

[blazing musk]

It's the marketing that gets people confused, they do that on purpose

[olive wadi]

i mean

maybe?

????

[upper quiver]

its not all that confusing tbh

[olive wadi]

ive never seen it been used for the sake of shady marketting

sata is literally in the name

[upper quiver]

its just a matter of knowing vs not knowing

[olive wadi]

although lol

NVME IS A SIMPLE STORAGE FORMAT

[untold grove]

m.2 sata is literally just to prey on stupid ppl

imo

[minor sun]

the last time I told someone "b+m means not nvme" they pulled out a picture of their SN520 lol

[olive wadi]

some mobos and laptops only support sata over m.2

[olive wadi]

optane aswell

[upper quiver]

b+m are x2 lanes vs m key which are x4

[olive wadi]

how do i reformat my mx500 to be nvme

[minor sun]

optane is irrelevant smh

[olive wadi]

🥴

[upper quiver]

[minor sun]

didn't intel officially kill the line off

[olive wadi]

optane shouldn't be irrelevant

[untold grove]

yeah bad ones

[olive wadi]

nand flash is garbage

[torpid adder]

I see drives with NVMe labelling and m+b key

[olive wadi]

exists

[olive wadi]

is my aliexpress xeon board bad then

[upper quiver]

consumer optane is irrelevant
optane, as in intels Xpoint architecture, is poggers

[untold grove]

yes

[plush crag]

@olive wadi Have you seen a certain someone's argument that 3dxpoint = nand

[untold grove]

and most of the time those od pcie ssds

[olive wadi]

xpoint architecture

intels

[olive wadi]

yea they dont even know why nand flash is called nand

so

they think that the internal workings of a nand flash cell resemble a nand gate

which they dont

they think that the nand logic is inside the cell itself which it isn't

so if they don't even know why nand flash is called nand there's no point in seeing any reason in their argument that 3dxpoint is nand

3dxpoint and nand flash differ in every regard to why nand flash is called nand so

[frosty orbit]

consumer optane is irrelevant

sir no

please it hurts

[olive wadi]

consumer optane is irrelevant

[frosty orbit]

905p owners crying rn

[olive wadi]

only if you are impoverished

[frosty orbit]

true

big if factual

[olive wadi]

you see aegis

the word lines must be pulled high

because

the current must flow

[frosty orbit]

believe me when i say we are more than familiar with how popcrn's brain resembles that of a neutron star with how dense it is

[upper quiver]

damn

[plush crag]

[olive wadi]

that would imply that he has a lot of brain cells

[upper quiver]

gottem

[olive wadi]

his skull is dense

not his brain

[untold grove]

i rly do think m.2 sata is useless

maybe to oem laptop makers looking to save a buck

[frosty orbit]

it's dense like a thick jungle... nothing ever makes its way in or out

m.2 sata being largely useless is a stone cold take

[minor sun]

smh I need to research nand again at some point

[olive wadi]

reminds me of someone i used to know

[frosty orbit]

i don't think anyone disagrees with that

[minor sun]

all I remember is threshold voltage

[frosty orbit]

dont do it

believe me i know

[olive wadi]

dont do it

believe me i know

[frosty orbit]

ssds are incredibly deep in terms of potential for information

but they have so little yield in terms of useful information

[minor sun]

Yea I saw something once

and I just went what

[frosty orbit]

its like

theres so much to learn

and all of it is useless

so dont bother

[minor sun]

I might try to at least understand nand

[frosty orbit]

at the end of the day there are two categories of ssds

[upper quiver]

i just buy ssd with most amazon reviews

[minor sun]

screw controllers

[small steppe]

Aegis#8622 has been warned

Reason: Bad word usage

[frosty orbit]

wtf

???

u cant say sheet

[untold grove]

need kingwin ssd

[minor sun]

yes

you cannot

[frosty orbit]

dumb

anyways

there are only two categories of ssds that matter

especially for pc builders

[late vector]

go read the rules maybe

[frosty orbit]

garbage and not garbage

[upper quiver]

[olive wadi]

@frosty orbit when the word line is negative voltage ????

when the word line positive

[frosty orbit]

the rules dont say no swearing as far as i can see

but its fine

[upper quiver]

pg-13

[olive wadi]

current flow

[frosty orbit]

these drawings hurt me

[olive wadi]

arshia drawings ™️

[minor sun]

I feel like at one point I could understand that

[olive wadi]

does this accurately represent why the control gate must be positively charged for the current to flow

[frosty orbit]

dude its just a transistor zooemd in

[minor sun]

but not any more

[frosty orbit]

dude look

CG+ means FG electrons attracted

[olive wadi]

because the negative go up

[small steppe]

Aegis#8622 has been warned

Reason: Bad word usage

[olive wadi]

ok and

[frosty orbit]

god damnit

[olive wadi]

why must cg+ be for the current to flow SIR

[frosty orbit]

so then they aren't messing up the n channel

and source->drain is open

[upper quiver]

so basically, my emotional state

[olive wadi]

what does messin up the n channel mean

[frosty orbit]

for bizniz

[olive wadi]

so

CG+=current can pass

[frosty orbit]

okay look windshield wiper

[olive wadi]

windshields here lets wipe

[frosty orbit]

this is a fundamental idea in semiconductors so pay attention

[olive wadi]

pee pee poo poo

nvme is a storage format

[frosty orbit]

shut

when u have electron-dense or hole-dense silicon

[frosty orbit]

it will affect the electrical characteristics local to wherever it is

[olive wadi]

ok and

[frosty orbit]

so if u have electrons directly above an n channel where you want current to flow

that is an electron dense area

[olive wadi]

ok and

[frosty orbit]

which means that other electrons that wanna jingle and jangle their way across

they cant

and then you have a bruh moment

[olive wadi]

ok but

what if the floating gate is empty

[frosty orbit]

QED

[upper quiver]

[olive wadi]

if the floating gate is empty why do we still need a positive charge in the control gate for the current to pass

[frosty orbit]

good question

[olive wadi]

is it just to overcome the natural resistance of the silicon?

[frosty orbit]

yeah the n channel still creates depletion zones iirc without FG charge

[olive wadi]

ok

understandable

[frosty orbit]

UNDERSTANDABLE