storage-devices

[formal tusk]

Smidgeon is nothing

Pooling implies the thermal pad was cooking

So it's fine

[rich wadi]

Good good

Idk my issue then 😭

[cloud kiln]

not paper, it's actually an aluminum sticker basically
like a heat spreader that is also a sticker

[rich wadi]

Oh alright

Yeah i remember being told not to peel it off lol

I just assumed warranty or something

[formal tusk]

It's also warranty

Lol

It's like

Tearing the backplate off the gpu

[cloud kiln]

i was going to say that it voids the warranty but technically speaking, voiding warranties from a sticker is illegal

but it's not beneficial to remove it

[formal tusk]

That's why they call it a "heatspreader"

💀

[cloud kiln]

💀

i guess that's a legal loophole lmfao

"you see this sticker? well, it's not just any sticker..., BUT A HEATSPREADER"
dun dun dun
scary pipe organ noises

[rich wadi]

I mean its not wrong

[cloud kiln]

https://tenor.com/view/ace-attorney-phoenix-wright-phoenix-wright-read-reading-gif-3885369798469954526

[rich wadi]

It isnt only cosmetic

Now to stick this back in

Jesus my heatsink is dusty

[cloud kiln]

time to deep clean

[rich wadi]

But that would take effort

And me no likey effort

[sharp folio]

Anything new in reliable high speed and storage SSDs that aren't expensive? Or is the P44 Pro still one of the best if not the best?

[blazing musk]

That one hasn't been a good price in ages, it's more expensive than Samsung right now

[blazing musk]

If you really need about ~7000 MBps then check out the MP44Q

[sharp folio]

Are those as reliable as Samsung and Solidigm SSDs (excluding the firmware problems)?

[blazing musk]

The NAND has half the endurance rating but that doesn't matter when that still equates to writing 300GB per day for 5 years straight

[sharp folio]

Know anything about whether or not it actually lasts that long the majority of the time?

[blazing musk]

Not from firsthand experience, I've never used more than 3% of a drive's endurance rating

If anything, the controller goes out on a SSD before anything else, and it has a decent controller

[sharp folio]

Yeah I think my OS drive is sitting around 30 TBW right now after at least two years?

[blazing musk]

Cheap SATA SSD I got about 5 years ago, casual 20k hours of power on time

[sharp folio]

My original OS drive was a 480 GB KODAK drive that I'm surprised is still alive

Four years of use, I have projects on it now

[blazing musk]

I just did the math and I've had that drive powered on the equivalent of 2.26 years continuously

SSDs just don't die under normal use

If there's a power surge, that'll kill it

[sharp folio]

Surge protector

[blazing musk]

I also managed to kill a drive by plugging it in without realizing the power supply was on

[sharp folio]

lol

[blazing musk]

Doesn't help when the surge is caused by your power supply

[sharp folio]

Yeah no

Luckily

2018 RMx gang

[blazing musk]

Same, absolutely a great PSU

I grabbed the special cable for the 30 series FE too so I don't need an adapter

[sharp folio]

Nice

The amount of M.2's I can have plugged in without losing USB and SATA ports should be documented in my motherboard manual, right?

[blazing musk]

Ideally, but not always

iirc B650 has 2 dedicated SATA ports and anything more is optional and can be shared

USB is a toss up

[sharp folio]

moment

I'm using a lot of USB ports

[blazing musk]

Worst case you just get a USB hub tbh

You can technically have 255 devices on a single USB controller

LTT tested that and I think their finding was at around 100 it starts to get buggy

[sharp folio]

If you're using 100 I'd be concerned

[blazing musk]

That device count does include any hubs since those need to be addressed as well

But yes 100 is rather excessive, and most motherboards will have at least 3 USB controllers too

[white orbit]

Got a question about hooking up more hard drives to my pc, hope this is the right channel for discussing it. I have a evga 750 GT psu, and it comes with a 2x6 pin modular connector with 3 sata power adapters on a single cable. I currently have 2 HDDs and my case's aRGB lighting connected to those 3 adapters. I want to be able to hook up a 4th device (SSD) and potentially a 5th drive in the future. My PSU only has 3 6pin outs on the back, marked SATA1, SATA2, PERIF. If I get another 2x6pin with 3 adapters, does it NEED to be plugged into both 6pins? I was assuming that was done for less current load on the connection but I don't know for sure. My other option is to use a molex to sata power adapter, but I've heard those can be dodgy. (It will only be powering the aRGB controller though). Any advice? I hope it wasn't too confusing; I can provide pictures if I need to.

[cloud kiln]

i'm assuming you're asking if your sata ssds/hdds need to be connected to the sata power cables, and the answer is yes

iirc the sata data cables only carry data signal and dont have any power pins

molex to sata should be fine

[white orbit]

No, that's not at all what I was asking

[cloud kiln]

the issue is mainly when people try to use molex or sata to pcie power which those arent rated for those currents

rgb and drives would only be using maybe like 20 watts for each device

[white orbit]

My issue was that I am using up all available sata adapters, and wanted to add more, but my PSU only has one remaining 6pin out

https://www.mycomputeraruba.co/image/catalog/843368060541.3.jpg

So my sata power cables use both SATA1 and SATA2

I was just wondering if I get another one of those cables, if there's harm in only plugging in 1 6pin

I'm assuming evga has it use 2 ports to limit current? but my SSDs shouldn't be drawing all that much power

[cloud kiln]

looking at the keying, perif looks to have the same pinout as the sata so you might be able to grab a sata power cable (make sure it is for/compatible with your psu model) and it should work

[white orbit]

Okay awesome. I've seen some online that claim compaitibily but only have 1 6pin connector, vs my cable's 2x6pin.

Was just unsure if it was bad to use one of those

wasn't sure of EVGA's reasoning for using 2 connectors for 1 cable

[cloud kiln]

not entirely sure why they did that either lol

but the keying on all 3 are identical

[white orbit]

The only thing I can think of is better power management or less current for 3 spinning HDDS

but idk

[cloud kiln]

spinning drives draw barely any power (though more than ssds)

[blazing musk]

Probably due to either having more SATA connectors on one cable or for a safety margin type thing because a lot of high power stuff uses SATA now, like RGB

[white orbit]

Yeah that's why I was confused by it

[cloud kiln]

iirc max wattage for most hdds are like 20w

or 30?

excluding the ancient ones ofc

yeah rgb is probably the reason

or maybe like a fan hub

[white orbit]

Well, one of my connections is the aRGB controller, which runs 2 strips (look up be quiet! pure base dx)

[cloud kiln]

those also might use sata power

[white orbit]

I can't imagine addressible RGB lights use a ton of power, really

[cloud kiln]

have you seen some builds

it's practically a light show

[blazing musk]

You'd be amazed, I've seen cables melt

[white orbit]

Yeah my computer is like that lol

but its only 4 strips total, 3 rgb fans

Right now its no RGB because I had to unplug that power adapter to install my new storage SSD

[cloud kiln]

yeah that's rookie numbers

[white orbit]

and only 2 strips actually run on that connection, the rest are through USB, I think

Do you guys know if EVGA posts compatibility lists for psu cables?

[cloud kiln]

you would find the compatibility in the product listing

[blazing musk]

You can't expect EVGA to list every compatible third party cable

The first party ones will say what units they work for on the page

[white orbit]

Oooookay. Apparently I am just really blind or distracted. Apparently there were 2 separate cables, I just never saw the other one because I installed it 4 years ago and wrapped it up into a ball and shoved it behind the psu in case I ever needed it on the future. So those 2 6pins were not leading to one sata power cable, it was 2 all along. So now I have 3 extra headers to connect to. Just a dumb mistake that set me back like 6 hours today.

Anyway thanks for your help, I know a bit more about this for the future.

[frigid flicker]

Hey guys, what's the proper way to transfer all data from one NVMe to a new NVME when my motherboard has 2 slots?

I have a new 4TB Gen 4 NVMe SSD. I current have all my files stored across a 500GB Gen 3 NVMe SSD & a 1TB HDD.

On my motherboard, I have a Gen 4 NVMe slot and a Gen 3 NVMe slot. The plan is to put EVERYTHING I currently have on both my current storages and put it into the new 4TB NVMe SSD, leaving the old ones for emergency overload storage only. What's the proper process for this? Where do I even begin? I can't wrap my head around Windows OS transfers to start

[blazing musk]

Macrium Reflect will transfer the OS and critical files, as well as give you the option to expand the main partition to fill the new drive. Then the other drive is just cut/paste to transfer it over.

[cloud kiln]

Or you can use clonezilla

[outer garnet]

I've just Purchased an NVME with the Heatsink on. Would I be able to remove it and use the motherboards provided heatsink just fine? NVME: Crucial T705 / Mobo: Asus Strix 870E -E Gaming.

[blazing musk]

Looks like the heatsink just has clips holding it on. You can effectively pry it off, but be aware you might damage the heatsink in the process. The SSD will be fine as long as you don't bend it much.

There's no glue to worry about, it's just the thermal pads

[slim gust]

besides the storage amount, which one of these is better? Silicon Power ACE A58 SLC Cache Performance Boost 2.5" 2TB SATA III or Team Group T-FORCE VULCAN Z 2.5" 1TB SATA III. ive never heard of silicon power before

[minor sun]

Both are pretty meh sata drives, both dramless with just decent nand and controller

[slim gust]

what would you recommend for 1-2 tb between $50-$75?

[minor sun]

Do you have a m.2 slot?

Or only sata

[slim gust]

no, needs to be sata

[minor sun]

Prices are not great and the drives aren't great, the classic mx500 is almost $80, addlink s20 can be decent depending on the variation, but otherwise if you don't care much about access time, you can get any of the meh drives, cheapest looks to be cs900 right now

[dense merlin]

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/nXF48d/silicon-power-a55-1-tb-25-solid-state-drive-sp001tbss3a55s25

bit better than the cs900

id do the same one for 2tb

[minor sun]

I mean it's still just 64l micron TLC, just with a slightly different controller

[dense merlin]

i thought pny had been swapping parts on the cs900

[minor sun]

Afaik it's the higher capacity one that can have the qlc

[dense merlin]

hm alright

[minor sun]

A55 can also be variable hardware so it'd be a bit of a gamble either way

[sleek harbor]

Does anyone have suggestions for best ways to add more SATA drives (6 ideally, but 4 would still be good) to a mobo with only one a free PCI x1 slot? Doesn't have to be a RAID card, but that'd be fine of course

(pls @reply/ping)

[cloud kiln]

https://www.amazon.ca/StarTech-com-Port-SATA-PCIe-8P6G-PCIE-SATA-CARD/dp/B09KCH846V?th=1 smth like this ig

4 drives is the max for 1x slots

6-10 drives is a 4x slot

[sleek harbor]

So cards like those are pretty reliable? I've heard some accounts that anything over 2 sata drives can be inconsistent, but that might just be with some software or other details I'm missing

Most of what I've seen suggests RAID cards like the dell H310 but those are all x8 of course

[cloud kiln]

HBA cards should be fine

i would avoid raid cards

[sleek harbor]

interesting, why is that if you don't mind me asking?

[cloud kiln]

idk about the reliability of that specific card, though i've had good experiences with the value of startech so that's why i linked it

[sleek harbor]

Fair enough yeah, I've only used them for cables years ago lol

[cloud kiln]

well, depending on your application, you might need a HBA to make the best use out of it, like with truenas, that uses zfs which works best when you have multiple drives, while the raid controller would show like 4 drives as one for example to zfs which negates the feature of it

and if the raid card dies, you may lose your data and it would be very difficult to recover

HBAs on the other hand basically just convert pcie to sata (or more commonly, SAS since HBAs are mainly used on servers)

[sleek harbor]

Gotcha gotcha, hadn't considered that about a raid card

Well thanks, that's super informative!

[worn trail]

Samsung 990 EVO 4TB for $239 is that good?

Looking for a large capacity work drive that I will temporarily also likely store some games on.

Options within $239:

4TB Capacity

• Samsung 990 Evo
• XPG Gammix S70 Blade
• Lexar NM790
• Addlink A93

[formal tusk]

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/Fd3NnQ/klevv-cras-c910-4-tb-m2-2280-pcie-40-x4-nvme-solid-state-drive-k04tbm2sp0-c91

[worn trail]

I'd like to get one that is on par or close to something like a SN850X.

I will be using the drive for a long time (3-4+ years) granted my current speed of SSD upgrades.

Uses will be primarily video rendering/editing followed by Blender and till I get a second 4th drive for games I might put a few games on there.

[formal tusk]

It's more than enough for that

More importantly any speed upgrade isn't worth the extra $45

Like ever

Lol

You shouldn't base an SSD performance over the "Up to X speed" because that's just marketing

[worn trail]

Hmm alright.

But performance wise how does it fair?

I am the type who doesn't mind spending a buck or two extra if it provides a pleasant user experience and quality.

[formal tusk]

In my experience

Basing heavily on metrics beyond the basics and reviews leaves you expecting a million things that sample variation will ruin completely anyway

My fastest SSD is a gigabyte 5000MB/s aorus

I have SN850's, KC3000's

It doesn't matter even when it counts

Going for pure read write speed matters if you either run a full on enterprise server or you're working rendering as a full time well paid job

And even then

Superlative

Exaggerated benefit

Gen 4 is about the peak even for the most elite use cases in the industry

You really don't need more

Nay

The speed b enefits aren't even really leveraged by hardware these days anyway

[worn trail]

So your point is I likely won't notice the difference and even if there is a difference it would not matter because it is very small.

[formal tusk]

Yep

[worn trail]

Am I following?

[formal tusk]

Like, blink and the difference is passed, difference at best

Things that actually matter

Random read write

Sustained performance rather than peak

The type of componentry on the SSD

Whether it's good TLC and dramless or not

These are the things you don't see any of on the box

Like a psu, the outside selling metrics mean jack all

[worn trail]

Understood.

[worn trail]

How do you feel about this SSD in particular?

[formal tusk]

It's the current value winner so I like it

Nothing wrong with Klevv

Next week when a new SSD wins on value I'll like that one more

[worn trail]

I mean as far as sustained speed and random write speeds go.

[formal tusk]

More than enough

Thing is you'll rarely actually use peak speed anyway

Cos file sizes aren't often in that capacity anyway

So the SSD will throttle between each new file anyway

Anywayanywayanyway

[worn trail]

Alright thank you. I am adding it to the cart.

[outer garnet]

Happy Holidays everyone! Quick question. Anyone know the fastest Gen4 NVMe for just the operating systems boot drive?

[cloud kiln]

a good gen 3 is plenty for OS operations lol

[outer garnet]

I'm currently considering Samsung Pro 990 and Cricial P310. Please don't factor price in as well as storage space as this is purely for Windows 11 storage. I'm aware Gen 5 is the fastest, but only have room for gen 4.

[outer garnet]

If there is no difference at all then Yes, but if there is even a second then No. I would rather get Gen 4

Solidigm P44 sounds like a competitor.

[soft ravine]

Is the samsung pro 990 good?

[dense merlin]

Meh

If its under $70/1tb it's fine

[soft ravine]

For sure

[soft ravine]

Would there be a noticeable difference from the Leven JPS800 1TB 4x4 nvme?

[dense merlin]

are you just gaming?

[soft ravine]

Pretty much

[dense merlin]

do you alr own the leven?

you might notice some small differences but for the most part itll be identical in gaming

but if you don't own the ssd yet, i wouldn't buy a sata when there's $55-60 nvmes that are still great

Like
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/HJ4Zxr/teamgroup-mp44q-1-tb-m2-2280-pcie-40-x4-nvme-solid-state-drive-tm8ffd001t0c101

[soft ravine]

Yeah, It’s the ‘Leven JPS800 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive’. My girl got the samsung 990 pro for free & she is going to give it to me. So I was wondering if it was any good but I’ll probably just save it for my next build.

[dense merlin]

ahhh

no reason not to use it, can just carry it over for your new build

[soft ravine]

True, but I probably won’t make another build anytime soon haha. The current one I have I made last year.

[dense merlin]

Id 100% use it then

More storage is always great

Even if you didn't swap windows over

[soft ravine]

I mean I really only play a handful of games right now but also I don’t think it comes with a heatsink.

Do you know if I would be able to use the one that came with my mobo?

[dense merlin]

Yeah definitely

[soft ravine]

& the samsung ssds are also good for recording / streaming right?

[small carbon]

That 1 is plenty, yes. Depending on recording, the ssd will be far from being the bottleneck. I run a somewhat similar sn850x & no issues at all recording w/ obs.

[soft ravine]

For sure, thanks. I run a 7600x with a RX 6800. Would there be a bottle neck there?

with recording etc..

[blazing musk]

Not a concern if you're recording at less than 16k resolution

[soft ravine]

Most definitely

Thanks

[outer garnet]

Just curious. Would a Gen5 NVMe outperform a Gen4 NVMe on a PCIe 4 lane?

I understand the drives is limited to the PCIe bandwidth, but since M.2 are backwards compatible will they provide more consistent Read and Write speeds than Gen4 drives?

[cloud kiln]

actually, most drives arent limited by the pcie bandwidth, but the nand flash and controller on the drive, which is why there are slow gen 4 drives and very fast gen 4 drives

there are gen 4 drives that perform worse than a good gen 3 drive

[outer garnet]

From what I've gathered. Fastest M.2 Gen4 read speed is 7,300 MB/s. A single Gen4 lane has a max bandwidth of 8 GB/s. So if this is true then a Gen5 M.2 could potentially use the max bandwidth and have Read and Write speeds of 8,000 MB/s. Am I correct?

[cloud kiln]

pcie gen 4 4x has a max speed of almost 8gb/s, gen 5 4x has a max speed of almost 16gb/s, gen 6 4x has a max speed of 30gb/s

[minor sun]

They're going to perform effectively the same, better or worse will depend on the implementation

[blazing musk]

There's overhead in the protocol that prevents it from reaching the theoretical peak speed

[cloud kiln]

i just noticed that they said "A single Gen4 lane has a max bandwidth of 8 GB/s" lol
i did say 4x in my response but a single lane definitely cant do 8gb/s

i can see why somebody may see it as a single lane though, due to the form factor basically being the same/similar width (or length?) as a 1x slot

[formal tusk]

No human being should even care about a gen 5 ssd anyway

They're faster for basically 0 benefit rn unless you export 8K footage all day for a job or run enterprise

[cloud kiln]

gen 6 drive

[worn trail]

Why is my SN850X (4TB) not showing up in file explorer???

[worn trail]

@dense merlin may I have an moment of your time?

[dense merlin]

of course

ahh, just gotta initialize the ssd in disk management

[worn trail]

How do I do this? If I've done it before I no longer remember. Thank you and my apologies.

[dense merlin]

ive honestly never had to lmao, yt should have a tutorial

im in the kitchen making food otherwise id go to my pc

[worn trail]

Understood.

[worn trail]

Disk Management does not appear to see the SSD

I see it now.

[worn trail]

It's working!

[dense merlin]

Nice

I'm now doing storage management myself lol

I've got a lot of games that I don't play often but id like to keep, I had an hdd but it died, got a new one put in so now im playing music chairs with my downloads

Since i have a 2tb nvme with windows, 512gb nvme, 1tb sata ssd, and 4tb hdd it's a lil odd

[worn trail]

I have:

2x1TB NVMe
1x4TB SN850X (the new drive)
1x512GB Hybrid SSD

[fringe mesa]

I'm shocked normal hard drives are still expensive today. Would have thought they would be fazed out for nvme. I stopped using them myself a few years back, after seeing how much they slowed my system down.

Well, not expensive compared to the 800mb drives early 80s that sold for $4k lol

[blazing musk]

Neodymium is the most expensive part of the hard drive and it only gets harder to get

[cloud kiln]

arent there a few other rare earth metals on the platters

iirc theres a tiny bit of platinum or whatever on the coating of the platters or smth

well, it's in such small quantities that would be worth less than the neodymium probably lol

[blazing musk]

Platinum is still cheaper than neodymium and it uses less of it

It's like when something is "gold plated" and there's a one atom thick layer lol

[cloud kiln]

lmao

tbh i didnt realize that platinum is cheaper than neodymium by weight

wait no it isnt?

[blazing musk]

It depends on purity

[cloud kiln]

i guess, but well, the platinum in a hard drive is just a thin coating and apparently would only be a few cents worth on each hard drive lol

[blazing musk]

Yeah basically

[fringe mesa]

When I worked for Best Buy Geeksquad In 2010 for some extra spending $$, and for their awesome employee discount, I got humbled on how I don't know everything. Yeah yeah I know. I should have figured THAT out when I ceased being a teenager. I kill hard drives at home, grinding or sanding the platters. When I worked for BB, I did not know that some hard drives now use glass platters. They look exactly like the metal ones. You could call them the Squid Games Hard drive platter game. Customer paid to have their hard drive destroyed, and wanted to witness it, so I took the drive out of the other associates hands who said they were busy, opened it up, unscrewed the platters and in front of the customer, went to bend the platters in front of them. Imagine my shock, as it desintergrated in my hands, leaving large shards in every part of my hand, that was dripping blood over the counter. Think I was actually in shock lol. Can't exactly put pressure on a wound with 20+ pieces of glass stuck. My Customer ran out the store. Obviously he got the proof he wanted. Me, a rush to the ER to get the glass out. Hard to do when both hands are injured. Man, that was embarrassing. They used a tape instead of stitches, on all but one large cut. Side of hand they used about 5. Now a days I just drop them to see if they shatter first lol.

[acoustic nest]

I just use good old DD

Takes forever but it zeroes out the drive and they'll be recyclable afterwards

[fringe mesa]

Every so often a tiny shard like fiber emerges that gets damned annoying that was overlooked years prior. I use my micro telescope to find and remove them. Usually tape does the trick.

Micro telescope I use to check lands and solder connections on circuit boards. Great for splinter removal.

[fringe mesa]

DD, crap, I can't recall what it is. I use my old geek squad utilities disk to do that. One of the few things that still run.

[acoustic nest]

dd is a copy utility

It's a very literal tool

It copies the entire partition bit by bit

[fringe mesa]

Gets annoying when I can recall what I ate and wore on certain days when I was 7, yet can't recall names of utilities I used an hour earlier.

[blazing musk]

It's affectionately referred to in the linux community as "disk destroyer" because if you type one wrong letter, bye bye data

Oops I mixed up of= and if=, there goes that drive

[acoustic nest]

So if you do
sudo dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdX bs=100M
you're effectively zeroing out the entire drive

[acoustic nest]

It's very good at that

[fringe mesa]

Been there done that with my Steam Deck. Found out the hard way trying to use an external nvme on both windows and steam deck Linux platform. I know like 1% of linux.

[acoustic nest]

Sharing partitions is not fun

microsoft and linux file systems are not that cross compatible

[fringe mesa]

I was being lazy. Not like I have a shortage of nvmes.

[acoustic nest]

Maybe ZFS?

ntfs has some metadata that doesn't like getting moved to non ms file systems

[blazing musk]

Linux likes zfs but not windows so much without a third party tool

Exfat is decently cross compatible, still not ideal for linux but at least most distros support it out of the box

[fringe mesa]

As for drive cloaning, I use Macrium Reflect, and forgot the other. My short term memory is shot.

[blazing musk]

Clonezilla for me

I'm pretty comfortable with a TUI

[fringe mesa]

Partition magic!! Think that's it.

[blazing musk]

Easus partition master?

I used that one for a bit until they removed features from the free version

[acoustic nest]

I usually just use gparted + dd

[fringe mesa]

I bought family versions a few years back. It's when I did that huge multi build in 2023. New windows 11 licenses, needed to clone the boot drives from ssd to nvme.

Which became a chore after I chose to stick with nvme only. God it sickens me seeing I paid $499 for a 2tb sk hynix platinum, and few months later, they dropped to $149. Murphys law.

Only thing that bothers me about nvme, is data recovery. Swapping platters or pcb on a dying drive to save data is simple. A dying nvme, no such option. Least none I know of.

[acoustic nest]

redundancy is your best buddy

[cloud kiln]

Redundancy but staggered

[formal tusk]

Redundant staggering

Pretending to be drunk

[cloud kiln]

Don't need to pretend
Drink that 95% from the skull flask

[formal tusk]

Can't cos it's upside down mate

[cloud kiln]

It's upside down so you can chug it all

[formal tusk]

Gravity advantage got me downin

No wonder we're so drunk as a country

It's like ireland but the beer goes down quicker

[cloud kiln]

Also to elaborate on this, due to how NAND Flash is, if you deploy a bunch of SSDs on the same day (and often they would be of the same model because pretty much only crazy homelabbers put like 10 different drives for the same pool), the chances of multiple failing at the same time are slightly more likely than if you stagger the ages

Or at least that was what I was taught

Hard drives don't matter as much though since they are like spilling a nitrogen fertilizer on your clothes and you have no idea when it'll spontaneously combust

[cloud kiln]

Real

Y'all be hanging bags of wine on a clothes line thingy and spinning it

Isn't it called gooning or smth like that

Goon of fortune

[formal tusk]

[turbid crater]

why does my ironwolf nas used as hdd for games/movies/tv shows check drive a lot?

[blazing musk]

What do you mean by that

What's checking the drive

Or what's telling you the drive was checked

[turbid crater]

i mean why does a nas often check the drive

every few hours it spins very fast and ends with a bing

i ran crystaldisk and seatools it shows nothing is wrong with my hdd

so i am overracting

[blazing musk]

Just sounds like something on the network's sending a "hey do you still exist and are your disks working" query regularly

Windows will do that for example

[worn trail]

How do I solve this? I recently deleted and redid the partition of the drive this was located on and now I can't uninstall it.

[blazing musk]

Ccleaner should be able to help with that. There's an option for deleting the application from the installed list.

[shut furnace]

if this is a nas they usually have automated smart tests, scrubs, etc they will run to make sure there are no errors

[cinder crescent]

What's the difference between Wd sn7100 and WD sn850x?

Both seem like identical SSDs but idk

I assume speeds but for someone who isn't trying to milk every bit of performance from their build I assume the difference is negligible

[cloud kiln]

Higher (peak) r/w speed on the newer 7100

Looks like sn850x has dram, but 7100 doesn't?

[cinder crescent]

What's r/w speed?

And does having dram benefit that much?

[worn trail]

Read and write speed.

[worn trail]

DRAM is very helpful for sustained loads.

[worn trail]

Read is essentially how quick you can open up (read) information.

Write is how quick you can download new information.

[minor sun]

The sn850x has a slightly better controller, sn7100 should be cheaper

[worn trail]

I recently purchased the SN850X 4TB.

I am loving it thus far.

[cinder crescent]

I assume that means applications that are open?

So getting the 850x is prolly the go to due to the dram

I feel like that would make more of a difference than the minor peak r/w speed differences

[worn trail]

Yes/no. What I mean is for when the drive is actively being used under heavy sustained load

[minor sun]

It's for sustained performance after it runs out of pslc cache, it's not applicable to most tasks

[worn trail]

Like if you are rendering something

[minor sun]

On the sn850x for example, the pslc cache runs out after ~300gb of writes

[worn trail]

Is a excellent example

[cinder crescent]

I see I see

[minor sun]

Unless you're moving 10gb+ files constantly, it's not going to be applicable to you

Like video editing with raw footage or something similar

[cinder crescent]

So it's more for editing

Right ok lol

Good to know

[worn trail]

Editing, CAD, AI, etc

[cinder crescent]

So 7100 it is then lol

[worn trail]

Indeed

[minor sun]

Do note I don't think there's reviews for the 7100 yet

There could be something funky with it that we don't know about yet

[cinder crescent]

Did it just come out?

Amazon has 20k reviews for it

[minor sun]

About a month

[minor sun]

Pretty sure Amazon piles all of the reviews for all of the options together

Like it'll count sn770 reviews for sn850

[cinder crescent]

Ohhhhh ok

So then which would you recommend for just basic gaming?

Cause if it's that new idk if it's worth getting right away

[minor sun]

Nov 22
https://www.techspot.com/news/105689-western-digital-rolls-out-new-dramless-nvme-solid.html

Lemme check prices

[cinder crescent]

I'm seeing $84-$79 for them

[minor sun]

Equivalent for a good bit cheaper
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C4KRMKFW

assuming you want 1tb

2tb is $117

would probably start with 2tb

[cinder crescent]

Team group is a solid brand I assume?

I'm only really familiar with crucial wd and Samsung lol

But if it's worth idc

[dense merlin]

Is the mp44 better than the mp44q?

I mightve asked you that before

[minor sun]

ye, tlc not qlc

[dense merlin]

And yeah teamgroup is almost always my ssd suggestion atm, not that I'm loyal to them they're just very consistently well priced

[minor sun]

and mp44 is supposed to have a very nice new variant with bics6

[dense merlin]

Oh nice

I thought it went mp44l>mp44>mp44q

[minor sun]

nah mp44>mp44q>mp44l

mp44l is like old gen 4 speeds, e16 speeds

5000/4500

mp44 is 7400/6900, mp44q is 7400/6500

[cinder crescent]

Awesome thanks!

[dense merlin]

Do you like the g70 pro?

[minor sun]

They use pretty standard parts like most companies, WD and Samsung are the outliers making their own controllers

[dense merlin]

It looks like a better gm7000 (slightly) to me

[minor sun]

team g70? no idea what the hardware is like

[dense merlin]

I researched it a while back and it's the same controller as gm7000/fx900 pro

[minor sun]

G70 pro hardware looks good from what I can see on tpu

[dense merlin]

I'm typing with one hand sorry for the typoes

[minor sun]

it's fine

this all is good enough

did hynix recently start making 176l actually

dont think I've seen hynix 176l before

[cinder crescent]

That's good to know!

[minor sun]

As usual, every company makes both good and bad parts, team just makes a good number of well priced parts that do well

[ionic garden]

So I noticed that some of these new motherboards have a sort of metal plate that goes on top of an NVMe drive and that they have a removable film. I presume it's a thermal pad and the plate is a sort of heat sink.

Do you need to remove the cover sticker from the top of an NVMe drive for that pad and sink to work properly?

[minor sun]

Generally no, because most of the time, that 'sticker' is also a heat spreader

[ionic garden]

I'm actually a little frustrated without how little explanatory documentation is included with two new MOBOs I've been working with. A few years ago they came with manuals that more or less had all the detailed information I wanted. Is this a new cost cutting trend or just bad luck in which manufacturers choose to include such things?

[minor sun]

It's all online now because it's "environmentally friendly" (saves money)

[cloud kiln]

Removing the sticker may void warranty (because it's considered a heat spreader instead of a "warranty void sticker")

[ionic garden]

Would be nice if it was labeled as such

[cloud kiln]

Most nvmes I've seen say warranty void if removed on the sticker

[ionic garden]

I think I slightly bent the nvme before noticing and correcting the mistake with the MOBO's mounting system. Think that will have caused any permanent damage? It was only a slight bend if it was even there. I've since corrected the mount.

[cloud kiln]

slight bend should be fine

if it got damaged, you would know pretty quickly lmao

[ionic garden]

Total failure of the device?

[cloud kiln]

pretty much

[ionic garden]

Good to know. Thank you.

[blazing musk]

It's also online so they can serve you ads while you look for the manual and make 3 cents off you every time you open the site

[cloud kiln]

There are ads?

I guess I haven't noticed since I do have an adblocker

Technically

(Malwarebytes browser plugin)

[blazing musk]

I have 3 myself. Pihole, Hosts file, browser plugin.

[acoustic nest]

I really should set up pi-hole in a proxmox lxc

[minor sun]

I haven't seen any ads while looking for mobo manuals at least

[ionic garden]

So I am one of the few people who actually uses optical media, and I’d like to be able to rip Blu Rays in addition to DVDs and CDs.

Does anyone have a recommendation for a good internal optical drive that can read and write all Blu Rays (standard, UHD, 3D)?

I’ve tried finding reviews but most of the results are for external USB devices.

[blazing musk]

This should cover your needs. It does quad layer BDXL-R writing up to 16x speed. Also does DVD and even M disc writing. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00E7B08MS

[ionic garden]

Does that include UHD and 3D BDs? I'm a bit fuzzy on all the different types of BD. I just want to have the one option to rule them all in my backpocket.

I've also read some things here and there about firmware revisions of certain drives limiting functionality, though flashing to older firmware seems to be an option for some.

[blazing musk]

Those aren't different kinds of discs, just different formats for video

[ionic garden]

What are BDXLs and does this drive require some firmware rollback to do everything?

[blazing musk]

BDXL is a quad layer disc that holds up to 128GB of data

[ionic garden]

As someone who does still collect some shows and movies on disc, it'd be kind of nice to have an entire season of something on a single disc instead of a massive box set.

Though I imagine no one has used those for video playback in movie players.

[blazing musk]

Yeah support for that will depend on the software used to burn it and the player used

[ionic garden]

But do you know about the firmware issue as it applies to this particular drive and if it affects whether you can read/rip UHD and 3D formatted discs?

[blazing musk]

That will depend on when the drive was made from what I'm seeing

If it was made after 2015 it will be able to do UHD (4K)

[ionic garden]

I'm watching a video on the flashing process and it mentions this one too.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DWFPDJI/?coliid=I307OCENSDOIMH&colid=KJADR47LQCIF&psc=1&ref_=list_c_wl_lv_ov_lig_dp_it

At only $15 more now, I might go for it if it genuinely does better with problem discs.

At the time of filming it was like $65 vs. $100, but now it's $85 vs. >$100.

So the NS40 has gone up over the years apparently.

[acoustic nest]

Some of these ones can rip ps3 discs too

If you're interested in archiving video games you could do that too

[ionic garden]

That certainly does interest me.

[blazing musk]

That would most likely be the feature that newer firmware removes support for

[acoustic nest]

they still update ps3 firmware?

[ionic garden]

He's referring to the optical drive firmware I believe

[blazing musk]

No, I mean the blu ray drive

[acoustic nest]

Ah

So you'd need an older drive

[blazing musk]

Or a drive compatible with older firmware

[ionic garden]

Or to flashback. Since I won't know what firmware I have until I get it I may just have to order one then see what my options are.

Also as an aside, I had to pull all the 3.5" bays out of my case to fit the GPU. Are there any good 3.5" to 5.25" adapter brackets for putting an HDD in one of the larger bays?

[blazing musk]

Yeah definitely

[acoustic nest]

Most of them are good

Most of them are just a piece of metal/plastic

Pretty cheap too

Unless you want hot swap

[cloud kiln]

3d printed bracket

[ionic garden]

Hot swapping is no concern. I actually would prefer to leave the front panel on that bay alone. I just want to throw one of my old high capacity HDDs in to supplement all the SSD storage I have just as a nicety.

Here's the video I found on the firmware flashing if anyone else is interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jho_lc7OS9Y

@acoustic nest

Actually, you might be able to help answer this question. I think I found a bracket solution that is better than a 3.5 to 5.25 adapter.

I'm using this case:

https://www.newegg.com/black-phanteks-enthoo-pro-atx-full-tower/p/N82E16811854004?Item=N82E16811854004&nm_mc=AFC-RAN-COM&cm_mmc=afc-ran-com-_-PCPartPicker&AFFID=2558510&AFFNAME=PCPartPicker&ACRID=1&ASID=https%3A%2F%2Fpcpartpicker.com%2F&ranMID=44583&ranEAID=2558510&ranSiteID=8BacdVP0GFs-r2E.Q6WNDd8IOPQXle2dPA

I had to pull both stock cages (each having three bays) to fit the RX 7900 XT GPU I have.

I searched for Phanteks specific brackets and found this.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GY2B3WP/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

It looks like it should be able to fit under the card especially if I just go with one instead of a two stack. Think it'll fit?

[acoustic nest]

Well the enthoo pro is a big case

hmm

[ionic garden]

The card was just so long that it wouldn't fit with the cages in.

[acoustic nest]

These don't seem to be the right cages for the enthoo pro

https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/s/KXNufrZcgP

This might help

https://www.reddit.com/r/homelab/s/EOSLLe7GDD

[ionic garden]

Basically what I'm trying to do is find a bracket that fits one or two 3.5" drives that fits in the same place the original cages did, but is lower profile so it will fit under the long card.

If such a part exists, it'll be nicer than using a 3.5 to 5.25 adapter

[blazing musk]

If you knew the hole spacing for the original bracket you could try to find one that matches, even if it doesn't list your case specifically

[acoustic nest]

Ironically enough they do stackable drive cages for the Enthoo Pro 2

Sad that the original isn't as versatile

The Enthoo Pro 2 is my favourite case of all time

doesn't look like there's much parts online for the enthoo pro

hmmm

[ionic garden]

I need to be heading to bed, but I appreciate all the input.

I'll check back here sometime tomorrow in the event you happen to have found anything. Perhaps I can find a bracket that will fit despite not being marked as Enthoo compatible.

[ionic garden]

There were some Amazon questions and answers that suggested the bracket I found might fit the Enthoo Pro, so I ordered it to try. If it works I'll let you all know.

[jaunty elm]

plugged in my second hdd, both sata cables, all good. not showing up. i dont have to initialize it in bios or anything right? been a lot time since I had to install a hdd

Not sure

[blazing musk]

Is this a new drive or an old one you're repurposing? Does it show up in BIOS at all?

[jaunty elm]

just seeing this. brand new drive. i'll try to see it in bios hold on

[jaunty elm]

initialized and formatted. thanks

[acoustic nest]

In y'all's opinion

An this Seagate Nas 2-bay handle 2x8TB hdds?

It has a 32bit armv7 cpu and 512mb of ram

[cloud kiln]

possibly? i dont think ram or cpu is what limits the capacity lmao

oh wait, 32 bit

hmmm

that might be a limiting factor on drive size?

2tb is the limit for 32bit systems it seems

not sure how seagate does it, but on windows, a 32 bit os will not be able to handle volumes of over 2tb; though you can format it to be several 2tb partitions

[acoustic nest]

I'm running debian on it with ext4

I found this

https://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/what-is-maximum-partition-size-supported-by-linux.html

https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/filesystems/ext4/blocks.html

hmm

[cloud kiln]

hmmm

[acoustic nest]

the kernel.org source seems to have better info

[cloud kiln]

so theoretically possible

[acoustic nest]

I got one drive in the nas at the moment

I can read on and off it

the cpu is maxed out when I look at the dashboard

but I don't know if it's the overhead of my setup

since when it starts on the dashboard it's reading all the stats

[cloud kiln]

it being maxxed would just be a limit of transfer speed basically? shouldnt affect if you can add more storage or not

[acoustic nest]

I am moving files at the moment so

that might also have something to do with it

looks like most of it is being up by nfs

so just file transfers

that's a relief

not overhead

I'm going to ssh into it and use btop

yeah btop says the same thing

it's bottlenecking the nfs file transfer speeds

but otherwise it seems fine

in theory 2x8TB drives should work

just a bit slow

just means that I'll have to upgrade the nas before anything else

I wonder actually...

Do y'all think if I use a usb enclosure instead on say a skylake laptop

it'll have better performance?

in theory even with the overheads of transferring files over usb it'll still be less bottlenecked right?

[acoustic nest]

could also get one of these...

this one is actually the same price since it has free postage

oh no ram no cpu

🤡

skylake

Another skylake...

this one does look promising

sigh

Really considering just running it off usb on a skylake laptop now...

I do have all the hardware on hand so the startup cost is literally $0

It should be an i5-6200U iirc?

That'd outperform this nas by miles right?

Even if I'm running the drives through the usb into the laptop

[acoustic nest]

I have decided to cope with the crappy nas until I could afford a proper nas setup (optiplex or something else that can run 3.5" drives without enclosures)

after that I'll probably convert it into a backup server

maybe I'll set up a LVM mirror or something

[brazen needle]

Is downloading Samsung's Magician Software worth it? I got my first Samsung SSD today.

[blazing musk]

It's worth using to update the firmware and then uninstalling

[fringe mesa]

Curious to know if there is a SATA controller that leaves hard drives off during boot process, and only turns a drive on when it's needed.

[cloud kiln]

i believe the BIOS is what turns them on to detect them, though you can spin down a drive after boot

if you have a bunch of spinning disks, i would recommend making a NAS so it can be on 24/7, and have them spin down after a period of inactivity

[blazing musk]

Turn on hot swap in the bios and you can plug the drive data cable in after it boots when you need them

Keep the power plugged in though, it's a good way to kill a drive by surging it

[cloud kiln]

i dont think that's what they're asking though

[blazing musk]

It's not, but it might be the solution to the problem

[cloud kiln]

maybe

[wet rain]

hello, i need 100 external hdd 20TB x 100, i need best price.

[cloud kiln]

for orders of 100, you might be able to get a bulk discount from a wholesaler for enterprise or NAS rated drives
make sure they're CMR though

or at least not SMR

there are some newer drive tech, though they might be a bit more expensive

[wet rain]

👍 thank you

[acoustic nest]

Iirc aren't the sub-8TB WD Reds SMRs

8TB+ WD Red/WD Red Pros of any capacity = CMR?

[cloud kiln]

i believe all wd reds are smr, and red pro or plus are all cmr

oh

i see

they did a rebranding ish

red plus is the old wd red so they're all cmr

and the current wd red line is only up to 6tb

which are all smr

[acoustic nest]

I got 8TB Red that's CMR

Maybe they didn't feel safe putting SMR on 8TB drives at the time

It was on the same lineup as the SMR drives too

WD80EFAX

[cloud kiln]

yeah that's what i mean by rebranding

[acoustic nest]

Ah

[cloud kiln]

apparently all wd red used to be cmr, then they put smr into the line

[acoustic nest]

hmm

[cloud kiln]

and then the old wd red turned into the wd red plus line

[acoustic nest]

So they gradually moved the CMR drives up to red plus

[cloud kiln]

iirc didnt red get a bunch of flack for secretly selling smr drives without rebranding it lmao

i feel like they only added plus because of the backlash lol

[acoustic nest]

I think it's the exact lineup

That I have

The WD60EFAX is SMR

While the WD80EFAX is CMR

[cloud kiln]

yeah it probably is the same lineup

wd's justification for it is like, smr barely makes a performance impact for nas or whatever

(which is technically true if all you do is read off the nas and not do alot of write operations)

[acoustic nest]

WD moment

[dense merlin]

storage management irks me

ive spent today and yesterday moving stuff between my drives, finding files i didnt even know exist and im still not done

[cloud kiln]

Lmao

This is why you should be organizing as you go

(I don't do this)

Well, for personal files

I organize my school files

[dense merlin]

i thought i was fine

but then i wanted to wipe my os drive

and now ive been playing musical storage finding out what I want where

[cloud kiln]

i did a similar thing on my laptop, thankfully i was planning on upgrading the SSD and had 2 m.2 slots

[dense merlin]

ive got my hdd im backing games and other stuff up on atm, 1tb cs900 for general games, and then 2tb p41 plus as my boot drive with demanding games

well, specifically demanding games that i use often

[cloud kiln]

i just installed a new windows install on the new drive and slowly whittled away at the files on my old os

[dense merlin]

i had a 512gb 660p with stuff on it but thats being taken out

i just found almost 400gb of stuff i didnt even know existed on my hard drive

adhd is my worst enemy

[cloud kiln]

lmao

[worn trail]

Mhmm one of the few things I am very good at. Albeit damned Epic Games kept me from over organizing since you can't keep games in a file path longer than 32 characters.

My storage is split up into:

• 1tb MSI 370 Boot Drive
• 1tb Samsung 980 Game Drive
• 4TB SN850X Work/Creative Drive
• 1TB Hybrid SSD cold storage

I want to upgrade my game drive to a SN850X at some point

[brisk dome]

If you don't have it already, Wiztree is awesome

https://diskanalyzer.com/download

[sharp folio]

What's the actual difference in an SSD with DRAM vs without?

[worn trail]

Only noticeable if you do a lot of heavy workloads. In other words not gaming. Stuff like 3D Modeling and Video Editing and or Rendering.

There are exceptions but it's minor.

[sharp folio]

How exactly does it make a difference for those?

[worn trail]

Iirc it comes down to how much data the drive can store on the cache

And how fast it can use/clear it

DRAM being ram for the SSD essentially

The more you have, the more you can store in one go

Without clearing

Over simplified answer but long story short, mid-range gen 3 and gen 4 drives are still plenty for gaming.

Could get better drives but you'd pay a lot more for much smaller gains

[blazing musk]

RAM is faster than NAND, so for bursts of write activity it can write to the RAM and then flush it to NAND, making it appear that the drive is running faster.

[minor sun]

dedicated dram vs hmb on drives can have mean maybe a ms of latency difference, instead of using dedicated dram to store mapping information for example, it has to check the records in system ram

usually it doesn't affect how much pSLC you get and how fast your pSLC cache is

[quiet gust]

Thinkpad R40, I wonder how many of these dvd drive latches broke.
So fragile it broke in two points, hopefully superglue fixes it, otherwise I'll have to 3d print a new one

For reference it is about 5×30mm

[quiet gust]

A simple disassembly became a multiple hour one after 2 screws were left out :PepeHands:

But I'd rate that a 9 out of 10, quite straightforward and intuitive disassembly process

[open gazelle]

There is an okay amt of talk about this due to old info. This use to be much more important when SATA SSDs where the common thing. Now-a-days, the HMB protocol exists which allows NVMe SSDs to use the computer's RAM for the SSDs metadata. However SATA cant do HMB, thus requires the SSD to have DRAM for fast metadata caching. Without fast metadata caching, SSDs can become slow pretty easily. There is still a small benefit to having DRAM on an NVMe SSD compared to using HMB, but it isnt large and sometimes isnt even outside margin of error for testing (depends on workload).

So ye, dont really need to worry about it now that NVMe SSDs are the common thing

[brisk dome]

Yeah Sata ssds with no dram were real poopy

[quiet gust]

I was thinking about setting up 6 OSs on the thinkpad r40, w grub4dos, and I thought of this layout to manage space allocation on the 100gb hdd (I will later change it for a 120gb ssd):

PcDos7 or MsDos6.22? - fat16 2gb
Win3.11 - fat16 2gb
Shared Dos&3.11 - fat16 1gb

Win 95 osr2 - fat32 10gb
Win 98 se - fat32 15gb
Shared 95&98 - fat32 10gb

Win2000 - ntfs 20gb
Win xp - ntfs 20gb
Shared - ntfs 20gb

The space is likely not managed very efficiently and im not sure if I need such big shared partitions. Any changes I should make? What would be best PcDos7.0 or MsDos6.22?

I have no idea how to install dos and 3.11 and I'm not sure about compatibility with the more "modern" hardware of the r40

[blazing musk]

The major "compatibility" issue I see is the number of partitions you're trying to use with operating systems that don't support GPT, and MBR has a limit of 4. Some of those won't work with extended partitions, which was the classic workaround.
So you'll need several drives. I think 3 minimum.

The good news is one of those can be a USB since DOS doesn't really care where it boots from.

[quiet gust]

😭 i had forgot about this limitation of mbr disks

so I guess I'll go for 95, 98, 2000 and XP without shared partitions

I could try installing dos and 3.11 on the pcmcia hdd

nvm the pcmcia hdd is dead

but it did last 27 years

[blazing musk]

XP supports GPT but only the 64 bit version

Because it uses 64 bit LBA

[quiet gust]

the cpu is 32bit so there is no xp professional 64bit and no gpt drive, but still I'm left with many partitions I wanted to add that I'll have to sacrifice

would have i used those shared partitions anyways? probably not much. I wanted to include those since I had read online that some of the os I want to install won't be able to use others partitions because of file systems and such

do you recommend switching win95 for 3.11?
I'm already going to have win98. 95 is similar to 98 with extra bugs afaik

[blazing musk]

95 and 98 are quite different. There's lots of changes under the hood.

As for what things to sacrifice, I can't really speak to that

[quiet gust]

do you recommend MsDos or PcDos? assuming you know more about those than I do

[blazing musk]

Not really, that was a little before my time lol. Windows 98SE was my introduction to computers and I haven't had a need to use DOS except in DOSbox to play old games.

How old do you think I am 😭

[cloud kiln]

Not a day over 95

[quiet gust]

I'm way too young, i started off with Windows 7 & XP for the few systems that did not run well

I'm quite sure you have seen more os transitions that I have. like... twice as many

[blazing musk]

I'm old enough to remember that there was another OS between 98 and 2000. Burn in hell Millenium Edition.

Oh and XP SP3 really should have been a separate OS between XP and 7, there were SO many changes that made it much much better, like native SATA support in the installer

[cloud kiln]

im glad i never had to deal with needing to load a driver while installing an OS

[blazing musk]

Really? Because I've had to do that with Windows 10, and occasionally 11 when the network drivers are missing

Guess you're just lucky

[cloud kiln]

maybe

[blazing musk]

Not even a OOBE\BYPASSNRO ?

[cloud kiln]

well, wifi never worked oob for me but i just installed those after the fact

but usually i'd have a patch cable

that's the only driver that i "need" but never installed during installation

specifically while the os was being installed was what i meant

[blazing musk]

So yeah just lucky

[cloud kiln]

probably

or perhaps the chipsets are just not exotic enough to not be supported

[blazing musk]

Chipsets are intended to use the generic driver until you get into the OS by design. Modern innovations.

[quiet gust]

when considering what OSs to install on the thiccpad I immediately removed Win Me from the list after reading what people thought of that os

apparently it was terrible, probably more than Win 8 compared to the alternatives you had

only good thing I found about Win Me might be the startup sound

[blazing musk]

Being based on Windows 98 meant that it would have been easy to just download and use that startup sound on your 98 machine and it would have been loads better

It's what, a 3KB wav file?

Could download that in a few minutes over dial up

[quiet gust]

few... minutes

98 startup sound is good enough

yesterday I managed to run a few old dos programs with windows 2000 and read some 30+ year old satellite images my dad used to capture via radio waves

and now he asked me if we can set up all contraptions to read whatever gets transmitted nowadays

[quiet gust]

I do have xp sp3, still sealed.
I could use that but it's the Italian version, is it possible to change to English after installation?

not sure because previous os language could only be whatever the installation image used

[blazing musk]

Yes but some things will still use the original install language, like system folder names and some settings

[quiet gust]

guess I'll install using an English iso

don't want to deal with mixed languages everywhere. already have that on my main pc

[quiet gust]

I have a tiny problem with the r40... it has no support for USB boot :|
do I really have to burn the ISOs on actual dvds

Hopefully the 700mb ones are enough

[blazing musk]

Oh I almost forgot, you might need a floppy disk to boot some of those installers like 95 and 98

[quiet gust]

do I install 95, 98, 2000 and xp in order? then I'll overwrite the boot manager with grub4dos as long as that's fine

is there any way I can boot via USB using some sort of bootloader on a floppy?

because I just realized 95 and 98 require the img file to boot, which I would have used on a floppy, but I can't have the dvd drive at the same time

any way to have the .img file on the same dvd where the iso is written to?

[blazing musk]

It's not just an img file, the contents have to be written to a drive

Ehhh you could try using ventoy maybe?

[quiet gust]

you mean writing ventoy to a dvd and have all iso there, including boot images?

I got a few 4.7gb rw dvds. not too sure if ventoy will work on one

also it's the first time I use ventoy since I haven't found much use in it up until now. should be quite easy from what I've seen

[quiet gust]

https://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=51288
it -should- have a setting to boot from usb in the hdd section

[quiet gust]

finally got it to work after dealing with the img file and the usb boot support...
it was difficult but eneded up writing it to a floppy and booting from it using an external adapter. now I have this screen

the iso is burned on a dvd rw currently in the thinkpad

it finally worked

[quiet gust]

kind of

the setup worked fine, but when it came to booting it didnt work and always returned windows protection error.
I made small changes to some files, tried adding himem to config.sys, using fix95cpu (which likely solved the main problem) and i am now able to boot into safe mode, normal windows shows booting win 95... shows the boot screen and back to booting win 95... before hanging there without hdd activity.

so at this point I'm assuming somethings wrong with the drivers... who would have guessed that?
in safe mode i removed the pcmcia reader from device manager as it had a red X on top. maybe there's something else that's conflicting

[blazing musk]

Check your resource allocation settings too

That could have been the red x cause, lack of addresses to assign

95 had pretty bad management, being the first real attempt at letting the OS handle it, 98 was a bit better, then 2000 eliminated the system entirely.

[quiet gust]

how do I exactly do that?

shouldn't removing it from device manager have solved the issue?

I think himem did nothing as 95 should be designed to work with up to 2gb

so fix95cpu likely solved the main booting problem

but now comes the driver part

[blazing musk]

I haven't used 95 that much but I do have a 98 system I can show

[quiet gust]

one thing I should mention is that I made the installation with few different bios setting (iirc parallel port was disabled) and I reset to defaults as I made other changes after and some things might have been reenabled. maybe it doesn't know how to handle the new devices that popped up? in this case it should only be the parallel port

[blazing musk]

95 did not handle hardware changes well at all

Even 98 was pretty picky, even though it was technically plug'n'play

[quiet gust]

should I try reinstalling? it was quite easy after all.
this time I'll keep default bios settings and just use fix95cpu to make it work

I should probably enable every device in bios so it can hopefully handle all drivers and hopefully it doesn't care if I later disable one

I should also check what drivers it installs during setup

[quiet gust]

Hopefully this helps, didn't know you could check what drivers are loaded during startup

I'll have to try it tomorrow as this whole installation was tough enough and I'm quite tired

[quiet gust]

back to reinstalling... what should i do this time? do I still go for the second option -no, i want to change the hardware list?

remember the pcmcia had an error in device manager last time

not sure if it matters

[quiet gust]

this time i clicked yes, it asked me to set up a few devices manually and so i did. i changed the keyboard layout to IT and now it displays this message which i assume is related to that

[quiet gust]

uuuuuuuuh

third times the charm... well... no.

i kept us layout, all default values that could conflict, but this time it hangs on starting windows 95...

[rich wadi]

Breaking the celery streak

[quiet gust]

there are all sorts of problems. nothing up to windows 2000 has worked, i either have problems with usb, booting, driver, not finding a dvd drive to write the ISOs to... jeez its difficult

[rich wadi]

Is it normal for an ssd to freeze up when unzipping larger files? Like after a minute itll just freeze the whole system, say (not responding), take 30 seconds or so and start going again and repeat the cycle

I doubt its overheating, it has a heatsink and thermal puddy

[minor sun]

It's more likely that it's the CPU doing the work unzipping it and just hitting near 100% utilization

But look at the speeds while unzipping of you still think it's the SSD, see if the speeds drop to native TLC speeds, it's possible it's just running out of pslc cache and becoming slower until it clears the cache

[rich wadi]

Maybe, ill look into it

Also if it is the cpu is there a way i can stop it from doing full utilization and just slow down a bit?

[cloud kiln]

Some archive applications could set the speed/util to not bog down the whole system

I like using peazip

[quiet gust]

I am going insane.
I feel like the label "designed for windows xp" is telling me that xp is the only thing that runs on this thiccpad

none of the other os worked

[quiet gust]

98 se and XP pro SP3 somehow worked.

[bronze current]

I'm looking into purchasing the "ABS Cyclone Aqua Gaming PC Powered by Asus - Windows 11 - Intel i5 13400F - GeForce RTX 4060 8GB - DLSS 3 - AI-Powered Performance - 32GB DDR4 3200MHz - 1TB M.2 NVMe SSD - CA13400F40602"

It says it comes with a 1TB SSD. I'm not sure how to check if there is a way to put in a 2nd SSD?

[dense merlin]

Yes, you can, but how much does it cost?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/126649666039?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=afYn7nlBQpS&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=r8em-zv_qyc&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

https://www.ebay.com/itm/135352897184?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=afYn7nlBQpS&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=r8em-zv_qyc&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

[sudden beacon]

looking for storage to use with my home media server, anyone have suggestions for what to use?

I think ill run two 2TB hard drives in raid 1

[sour wadi]

If you have an old pc lying around... That works great?

[sudden beacon]

Well I have a desktop to use, just no storage options besides a faulty 2.5in 2TB hdd

It keeps throwing errors and crashing the system so that ones a no go

[sour wadi]

Sorry i misread

[sudden beacon]

All good

[sour wadi]

Honestly sort low to high on 2tb hdds they're all pretty good, id go with a 7200rpm drive

Assuming hard drive and not solid state

[sudden beacon]

Sounds like a plan

Thank you

[sour wadi]

No problem

[cloud kiln]

honestly
3 drives and do raid 5 so that you dont halve your storage with raid 1
you'll instead have 2/3 of your storage

[sudden beacon]

is this a common route to take?

i've done raid 0 and raid 1 before but never raid 5

[cloud kiln]

raid 1 is mirroring so all the data on one disk is copied to the other drive, so 2 drives will have the capacity of 1 drive

raid 5 only has the downside of requiring to calculate parity data, so the cpu would be used more (for software raid)

but yes, raid 5 and 6 are fairly common

(6 has 2 parity drives rather than 1)

raid 6 requires 4 drives

[sudden beacon]

so with raid 5 i'd get 4tb usable space out of 6tb total drives

[cloud kiln]

yep

[sudden beacon]

What on earth is this 😂

[cloud kiln]

i'd avoid white label drives tbh

(white label means that the manufacturer didn't put their logo on it, mainly to sell to OEMs and such)

[sudden beacon]

I think I have enough of those at home already from random old laptops

They've proven their quality or lack thereof i suppose

[cloud kiln]

lmao

[sudden beacon]

looks like the cheapest option here is the barracuda

[cloud kiln]

used/refurb "enterprise" drives may be a good choice as well, with warranty

though you're unlikely to find 2tb drives lmao

also try to avoid stuff like 3tb drives because those are notorious for having an average lifespan lower than pretty much everything else

https://www.ebay.com/itm/156551820720

[sudden beacon]

2x storage for about the same price, ill take it

Is it recommended to buy multiple of the same drive?

I know these are refurbished so they're probably less likely to be from the same manufacturing batch but my question still stands

[cloud kiln]

i don't think there's any preference or not from only sticking with one vendor
i mean, a company like backblaze uses pretty much every manufacturer, but they also have like at minimum several hundred of a single model of a drive, and i'm not sure how they set up their storage servers

in terms of hard drives dying, it's much more rare for a bunch of hdds to die at the same time compared to flash storage AFAIK even from the same batch, so it shouldn't be a concern, at least for spinning disk

also i was looking through ebay and it seems like that drive may be one of the better ones, i saw some for cheaper though with only 1 year warranty, while that one listed has a full 5 year

[sudden beacon]

I dunno if i need 8TB usable raid 5 storage though

[cloud kiln]

if you're just storing easily replacable data, you can also just put the drive in a pool with no RAID

[sudden beacon]

its just various photos and maybe some personal documents

[cloud kiln]

so if one drive dies, only the drive that dies will lose data

hmm

[sudden beacon]

i could probably shell out like $90 ish for 3x 2TB drives

Not too keen on dropping $180 to use up like 1% of it though 😂

[cloud kiln]

lmao

understandable

i mean, does anybody in your family use a bunch of storage and relies on a cloud solution to store their photos and videos?

[sudden beacon]

Not any time soon, they still use icloud for now and will continue to until the world ends

[cloud kiln]

ah, apple

tough crowd

[sudden beacon]

Yeah .. One day i'll get them hooked on self hosted stuff

Anyway thoughts on these?

I have no idea what MDD is

[cloud kiln]

brand

looks like they're manufacturered by WD

[sudden beacon]

sata 3.0 though

[cloud kiln]

sata 3 is the most recent sata revision
if you want SAS you'll have to shell out a bit more and also need SAS HBAs

[sudden beacon]

erm I meant 3gb/s

Not sata 3.0, mb

[cloud kiln]

looking at forum posts, MDD should probably be avoided?

[sudden beacon]

Alright

Maybe i'll just hold off on this until I have a little extra 💵 to throw around

[cloud kiln]

tbh if you don't want to buy 3 4tb drives, i guess you could just do raid 1 with the 4tb, and you'll get the same amount of storage as with 3 2tb drives in raid 5

with the benefit of being able to buy one more drive if you need to double the storage and switching to raid 5

though this does require a bit of effort since you have to delete the raid group and make a new group for raid 5

[sudden beacon]

ill probably end up doing raid 1 with 4tb as my storage upgrade, i dont see myself accumulating that much stuff to back up or host anyway

Ill keep those seagate drives you sent in my bookmarks, thank you for your insight here

[cloud kiln]

no problem

[crimson fjord]

I’m getting an external ssd for a family member to store their family photos and videos and stuff and the one we came to is the Samsung t7 shield 1tb. I can’t find any non conflicting answers on whether or not this drive lasts longer than a year and a half. My goal is to get a drive that won’t fail for like 5-10 years and it won’t really see heavy usage ever. It’ll only be used to view 720 1080 and very rarely 4k videos shorter than maybe 2-4 minutes so the load wouldn’t really be that heavy. Is the t7 up for that task for that many years or should I look at something else yall think? It’s cool if it gets warm or slow as long as the data is intact and I don’t have to do too much work to transfer it to another drive once the time comes. There are four copies of this data so I’m not too afraid of losing it but this one specifically i need to last a long time as it’s not going to be at a safe site and I don’t want to be constantly toying with it.

[unreal bough]

where do i get used enterprise gear please and thanks i would lile to buy a 100tb unraid

[blazing musk]

Serverpartsdeals.com

They sell recertified drives for decent prices

[unreal bough]

ok would you trust used cpu and circurt boards

[blazing musk]

Currently I would trust used AMD CPUs and I personally avoid used motherboards because bad pins are common

Intel CPUs i5 and i3 are probably ok, avoid i7 and i9. There's a chance they're internally damaged.

(This is all assuming modern platforms, AM5 or LGA1700)

[unreal bough]

ok. where can i get used 45 drives case

[blazing musk]

That sounds like you want a JBOD

[unreal bough]

stornaitor can be used as a nas too i thought i am a rookie so i dont know much please help me im eager to learn

[blazing musk]

Storinator seems decent. Basically a JBOD with more server capability.

TrueNAS would be good to install on it

[unreal bough]

i have 6k budget thats for hard drives case and gpu upgrade for my streamer pc. ill need a camera sd card too. ill probley go unraid since i used unraid on my gaming computer just for the lols

[blazing musk]

Unraid would do the trick too

You can get 24TB recertified Seagate drives for $325 each, and you can add more as you need them if you configure it right

You can also save some money by getting the barebones version of the storinator and building it yourself

[unreal bough]

ok

how do i do theat/ where would i find it

[blazing musk]

I'll poke around a bit

[unreal bough]

ty

[blazing musk]

How fast of a network card do you need and how many ports

[unreal bough]

10GB RJ45 2 port

[blazing musk]

Ok so you'd be looking at about $4000 for the full build if you went for the storinator av15

Including 96TB of drives

[unreal bough]

kk

can you show me the link

[blazing musk]

It's a direct quote from the company in my email

No link

[unreal bough]

ok

[blazing musk]

These things are hard to find third party for reasonable price

[unreal bough]

found the 60 bay for 2600

[blazing musk]

That's probably bare, no memory etc

The memory gets very expensive

[unreal bough]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/296985401073?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D777008%26algo%3DPERSONAL.TOPIC%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20230906090541%26meid%3De784b2626d6445b38dbc1ff4bd9bed42%26pid%3D101816%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26itm%3D296985401073%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D4375194%26algv%3DRelatedTopicsV2WithSimilarCategoriesPurchaseSuppression&_trksid=p4375194.c101816.m5063&_trkparms=parentrq%3A0939faed1950ad59ec0b1708ffffd626|pageci%3A7c656a6a-eb8a-11ef-b3bc-42db0d3c7cae|iid%3A2|vlpname%3Avlp_homepage)

[blazing musk]

Oh that's a really old model

The processor is from 2013

[unreal bough]

yuckie

can you help me find a 24 bay 4u rack mount then please find sever cabneit

[blazing musk]

I need to get some sleep but I'll keep looking tomorrow

It's 3AM here

[unreal bough]

kk

[cloud kiln]

I would not recommend using 10gbase-t
Use a SFP+ direct attach cable instead, or fiber

My recommendation is to try to find an empty chassis, maybe with hotswap bays and a sas backplane preinstalled, then install a good quality consumer motherboard plus cpu, and buy a used HBA and 10gig 2 port SFP+ nic (buy 2 of the same vendor if you want to directly connect it to your PC)

And as for the drives, used sas or sata drives will work, like the ones falcie said about (sas backplanes can connect both sata and SAS drives, but sata backplane can't connect SAS)

If you need more solid reliability/ enterprise level tech though, you may want to look at used xeons that have support for ECC memory

I don't remember if 45drives chassis used standard ATX mounting or not

[cloud kiln]

looks like they do

reusable parts from this (assuming they all work)
$160 HBA (ebay ~$40 each, 4 of them in the case)
$30 dual sfp+ nic
$120 intel 100gb ssds
hard to put a price on the chassis since there's not really a public price for it, but i'll just assume around $1k for an empty chassis to buy
total recovered: $1310~

i dont think it's worth using that ebay listing to upgrade since buying the same parts would cost about half the price, and leave you way more budget to use either a higher end consumer board, or a last generation (or maybe slightly older) server/workstation cpu

[unreal bough]

i have comcast how do i use sfp+ ? i was aslo thinking about using fiber but theres no sfp port eaither on the router for the fiber provider

[cloud kiln]

your network switch can have SFP+, you can find used enterprise 10 gig switches for fairly cheaply

[unreal bough]

how would i connect it . sorry networking noob

[cloud kiln]

you have 2 options

SFP DAC can only go up to certain lengths, so if you have a longer run, you should use fiber

[unreal bough]

ok

[cloud kiln]

looks like 7 meters is the longest for passive sfp+ dac (the cheap kind), and if you want to go longer, then you would need an active optical cable (AOC)

[unreal bough]

ok

[cloud kiln]

also just so you know, pros of option 1 is you can add more devices in the future if need be, while option 2 is cheaper, but has less expansion options

also you can get a network switch with only sfp+ connectors, and for the few devices that you need rj45 for, you can buy some rj45 to sfp adapters, but rj45 isnt really designed for 10 gig (which is why i don't recommend using that for your 10g connection)

actually, i drew the 2nd diagram a little wrong, your client pc should also probably be connected to the router, for easier internet access rather than setting up a routing path through the nas

[unreal bough]

i was going to connect the PC to switch via DAC if it works

[unreal bough]

i need pice gem 3 sas card that can be fast enough for and 4k media server the case has 24 lff drives

[unreal bough]

?

[blazing musk]

How many PCIe slots and how many lanes are available to each? You'll need at least 3 hba cards for 24 drives.

[unreal bough]

i have msi b550 mpg amd r9 5900x

[blazing musk]

gaming plus?

or gaming edge?

[unreal bough]

msi mpg b550 gaming edge

[blazing musk]

Ok so you have 2 slots on that motherboard to use, one x16 and one x8. You could possibly bifurcate the x16 into x8+x8 so you can use the requisite 3x hba cards.

Or was this going to be the gaming system?

[unreal bough]

i was going to use it for gaming maybe since all i need is a gpu.

i would go for epyc

[blazing musk]

Oh ok then all you need on this board will be the network interface upgrade and a couple M.2 drives

The hba cards will go on the epyc system

[unreal bough]

ok

[blazing musk]

You could go with 3 of these https://www.ebay.com/itm/134321902898

[unreal bough]

i really dont want to buy anything out of the us i had bad experince

[blazing musk]

Oh, which country are you buying from then

I'll look more local

[unreal bough]

USA

[blazing musk]

9300-8i models will be faster than lower numbered models and aren't too expensive compared to newer ones so I think they're a good option here

9211-8i for example uses half the PCIe lanes

[unreal bough]

Will it be good for 4k media server

[blazing musk]

Definitely

[unreal bough]

ok

[quiet gust]

when testing old ide hdds using an usb adapter I often find ones that cause windows file explorer, disk management and diskpart to hang and not detect the drive. are those likely faulty? despite the spinning noise and no strange clicking sounds. all tested with jumper as master, slave and even cs

[unreal bough]

how much was the av15 with 15 drives and sfp+

[rich wadi]

Is it normal for my ssd to just freeze up when its extracting large files? Like it'll be going fine for a little bit, freeze for a minute and my unzipper says not responding, and then unfreeze and continue on and freeze again at some point

Btw crucial p3 plus

[minor sun]

yea it's pretty normal behavior once you run out of pslc cache, performance falls off a cliff once you have to be writing to native qlc, it's trying to recover its pslc while writing more, take a look at this from the review for example

The hiccups from it freezing and suddenly being faster for a little bit is it trying to recover its pslc cache, it's not very good at it but you can see the spikes here on the same sustained test but longer timeframe, like it recovers a bit of pslc, uses it and therefore is faster for a little bit, and then runs out of the pslc again

[rich wadi]

Damn thats really interesting, appreciate the explanation

[minor sun]

You're welcome

[rich wadi]

So is there a way to kind of slow it down so it doesnt hiccup?

[minor sun]

It's generally not something to worry about because it has like 200gb of pslc or something like that to burn through while empty, it's just that writing to native qlc is always going to be a lot slower than pslc, especially if it's not great qlc

Not much you can do, other than maybe doing larger transfers one bit at a time and give it a few minutes to recover pslc

[rich wadi]

Are there any storage types that try to avoid this buffer at all?

[minor sun]

I mean the only thing is the old samsung mlc only drives

or drives that use different tech like 3dxpoint

if you're using a drive for larger transfers, tlc (and mlc if you can find it) drives will write faster natively after you run out of pslc

slc only drives are really rare and expensive and usually reserved for servers only

or really tiny

[rich wadi]

Interesting, i think i remember hearing about that a bit

I know intel wanted to launch its optane stuff

[minor sun]

yea optane was 3dxpoint but died

[rich wadi]

Curious why

I know its storage capacity was ass for the price

[minor sun]

really fast, really cool, really expensive, really hard to expand on, and there wasn't enough demand in the markets

[minor sun]

You can take a look at this and related articles
https://www.anandtech.com/show/17515/intel-to-wind-down-optane-memory-business

[rich wadi]

Im pretty sure it was like non volatile ram

Thats what i remember learning about it

Its a very interesting idea

Its honestly much cheaper than i expected it to be

I wish they worked more on it

Wouldve been such a cool jump in tech

[minor sun]

cool but I don't think it was ever able to compete on density and capacity

[rich wadi]

Yeah that's what I'm seeing here

It's cool tech but it's just cheaper flat out getting everything seperate if its structure doesn't support your workload in any way

Im curious what will come after the ssds we have now

Seeing as prices have settled a lot for current gen m.2 i expect opportunities to shake up the market to be somewhere on the horizon

[minor sun]

I'm guessing some kind of actual 3d nand instead of "3d" by just stacking 2d cells over and over again

you can only stack so many, even if companies keep stacking more

[rich wadi]

Youre saying i cant have a ssd the size of my pc??? 😮

[minor sun]

hey the controllers themselves aren't actually that big or powerful yet

can't wait for 3d ssd controllers

[rich wadi]

Ill wait until the hypes gone and pay a fraction of the price

Storage in general feels like it has so much room to grow upon

[minor sun]

hey it's a pretty decent time to get pcie 4.0 drives now because the prices have gone down so much since their launch

just gotta be 1 gen behind

[rich wadi]

For sure

Ive seen 2tb options hover around 80 bucks

Thats about as much as i still see sata hang around

Is the difference between 4.0 and 5.0 even that much better honestly?

[sinful salmon]

It depends

It ranges from "Absolutely not" to "It might be measurable but you wouldn't feel it" @rich wadi

[rich wadi]

🥹

[brisk dome]

For gaming and general use, I don't think so

Heck, even a decent 3.0 is plenty for gaming

[acoustic nest]

You can run a lot of hard drives off the bandwidth of one pcie gen 5 slot

[cloud kiln]

Hell

One PCIe 5.0 lane

Probably can run 4-5 sata 3 drives with max bandwidth off of one lane

(sata 3 is 6gbits/s, which is 750mb/s, and each lane of PCIe 5.0 is almost 4gb/s)

[acoustic nest]

I wonder how many hard drives you can run on a modern X870 chipset on paper

[cloud kiln]

amd set a maximum of 4 sata drives on the mobo

[acoustic nest]

what about with a sata controller card

[cloud kiln]

well, you get 36 total lanes for adding a HBA to add more sata or sas

[acoustic nest]

are there even any gen 5 HBAs

[cloud kiln]

there's probably even gen 6 ones in development at this point, considering that it was ratified back in '22 iirc

[acoustic nest]

I wonder

if you can run an entire server off consumer grade hardware these days

with the stupid amount of bandwidth available

[cloud kiln]

yeah gen 6 was ratified back in 2022

no cpus or devices exist yet for use, though im fairly certain some are being r&d

also well

yes and no?

i mean, many gaming orientated servers often use consumer hardware, especially minecraft ones

due to it preferring single core performance due to how much minecraft, even the server version relies on the main thread

but servers for supercomputers? not really

especially since it doesnt have support for ECC

[acoustic nest]

I wonder if a 4790k is still good

for a minecraft server

you can overclock the hell out of that thing

power consumption won't be ideal

but still

or a 9700k even...

[cloud kiln]

probably would be fine