#cpus-mobo-and-memory

1 messages · Page 145 of 1

lone oar
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Is there a particular one I should look out for, or just one that’s not too expensive?
@silent sandal there’s an Asus one that is the first one that pops up in pcpp it’s rlly good

split storm
#

preferably a mix of quality and affordableness

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quality preffered if its less than 150

pastel monolith
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well 16g is the maximum supported so 32g is out

split storm
#

150 is like max

silent sandal
#

Sweet thanks

split storm
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I read 32g was max somewhere

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i trust you more tho tbh

pastel monolith
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I got it from here

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lol nope you were right

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I read it wrong 16 per channel cap

split storm
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yeah thought so

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but im not a hardware guy

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more of a software guy

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and even then...

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xD

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but yeah i went to that site too but couldnt figure out what to choose

pastel monolith
#

its not ecc so any sodimm ram should work

split storm
#

Crucial 32GB Kit (2 x 16GB) DDR4-2666 SODIMM this one seems a decent price

pastel monolith
split storm
#

but i have no clue what this means DDR4 PC4-21300 • CL=19 • Dual Ranked • x8 based • Unbuffered • NON-ECC • DDR4-2666 • 1.2V • 2048Meg x 64 •

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the specs

pastel monolith
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I like the one I linked there

split storm
#

idk if need to worry about anything there that makes it uncompatible

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thats why i needed help

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uh oh

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the long typing scares me

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xd

pastel monolith
#

needs to be sodimm (means its short for laptops) 1.2V (most sodimm are) Non-ECC (mean not error correcting usually found in servers) DDR4 (is the type of RAM) 2666 (the speed not a limiting factor) 2048meg x 64 = 16g (just the size)

graceful elm
#

So Nilboggen, what if i plan on ever needing more than 2TB m.2 storage?

split storm
#

So i should find one with a higher number?

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for higher speed?

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better preformance?

pastel monolith
#

@graceful elm that seems unlikely but if it does buy a pcie card that adds 4 more

graceful elm
#

Alright thanks

split storm
#

like maybe DDR4-2600 is better than DDR4-2400

pastel monolith
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@split storm not really I think 3200mhz is all that laptop is going to do if it even does that

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I would get the set I linked there it was good memory at a good price

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or at least something very similar

split storm
#

ok

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tysm

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Have a good day/evening

pastel monolith
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the ones I linked were 3200mhz

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no problem and you also

cunning crater
#

motherboard suggestions for an i7-9700K / RTX 3070 build? first gaming pc build and the options kind of have my head spinning

pastel monolith
#

Someone found this crazy good deal earlier today

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that thing is $100 more on newegg

cunning crater
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@pastel monolith that supports 10th gen /LGA 1200, I would need something that supports LGA1151 for a i7-9700k though right?

devout mothBOT
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Nilboggen#2893 has been warned

Reason: Duplicated text

pastel monolith
#

what

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duplicate

devout mothBOT
#
Nilboggen#2893 has been warned

Reason: Duplicated text

#
Nilboggen#2893 has been banned for 10 minutes

Reason: Too many infractions

[unban]

Banned until ·
silent sandal
#

Um what the frick just happened???

graceful elm
#

yo what

cunning crater
#

not a clue

silent sandal
#

Do we uh tell someone?

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Cause that seems like it shouldn’t have happened

graceful elm
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i got tomie

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i hope

silent sandal
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He’s gone forever

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F

graceful elm
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@pastel monolith

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no hes still here

silent sandal
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My discord being wack then, cause it says I have no servers in common with him

pastel monolith
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so like before i got kicked by a bot

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that mobo totally supports all gens although I will not attempt to paste them anymore lol

cunning crater
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awesome - I appreciate the help. sorry for the hassle with the bot haha

silent sandal
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That bot btfo’d you nilbo

pastel monolith
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yeah it did

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for no good reason

silent sandal
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And the mods ain’t even care

pastel monolith
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Tomie fixed me

mild jackal
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same

pastel monolith
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lol

graceful elm
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what did you do?

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just pasted a link more than once?

pastel monolith
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I think the message said TM to many times

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since all the cpus were trademarked

timber jasper
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hi guys

pastel monolith
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hello

timber jasper
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do u think i should get an amd 3900x or should i get in intel i7 10th gen

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im going to make my first pc soon

pastel monolith
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depends on use case

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like just for gaming

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going to render videos

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what do you want to use the pc for

timber jasper
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i mean gaming for sure and talking wiht my friends

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and some other stuff

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but i might stream in the future

pastel monolith
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I would lean towards a 10600k or 10700k then or one of the new AMD cpus

timber jasper
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so i should try and get a 5950x?

pastel monolith
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whoa now

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thats a little much probably a 5800x

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we want to save plenty of money for the GPU which is far more important to you

umbral aurora
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Anyone knows any website to check availability for pc parts (in this case for the new AMD cpus)

pastel monolith
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all retailers are listed in US and Canada

umbral aurora
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I knew about this one, but I didn't remember, I gues it works, thanks

pastel monolith
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yeah I mean no one is keeping track of stock or anything just have to keep checking them

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even if someone had that info they would just buy them and scalp them

green vessel
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@Bipψ#0998 what do you have now?

fluid gorge
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Will the new ryzen 5 5600x beat the Ryzen 7 3700x?

thin dagger
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Userbenchmark says yes by 10%

hexed bison
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yo should i get the ryzen 5600

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actually nvm

vagrant mist
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UB is not reliable

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but it will beat the 3700x

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if it didn't people would be having fits

boreal zenith
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i need help understanding something about memory types

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but if i were to use ddr4 3600 for example would that be less optimal than ddr4 3200 for that cpu?

vagrant mist
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that depends on the CL timing

boreal zenith
vagrant mist
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3600Mhz Cl18 is similar to 3200Mhz Cl16 if i remember correctly

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usually i would consider capacity first, speed second and latency third

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of course, it must be DDR4 if you're using a ryzen 9

boreal zenith
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but the speed doesn't necessarily have to be 3200 even though that's the memory type listed for the cpu?

vagrant mist
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for ryzen chips, it is better to have something at 3200Mhz or above

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It just gives better performance the faster your ram is

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but yes, you can have slower speeds

boreal zenith
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oh okay

vagrant mist
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but why would you want less performance

boreal zenith
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well i'll definitely make the minimum 3200 but i'll wait for them to make new ram for the 5000 series

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ty for explaining that to me, got a bit unnecessarily stressed

vagrant mist
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it's fine, pc parts take a lot of time to research and understand

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took me months to plan my first build

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I still don't consider myself a professional by any stretch, but I know the basics

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i hope...

boreal zenith
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my next build probably won't be until the 5000 series restocks and amd's new gpus restock (after they release qq)

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sooo i have some time to study more

vagrant mist
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yeah!

boreal zenith
vagrant mist
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now's probably a really bad time to buy parts and build a pc

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stock for new stuff is crazy, PSU prices are really high

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prices for old stuff is really high too, per the 2070 prices rn

boreal zenith
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yea it's pretty wild rn. my current pc isn't in any rush to be replaced, so i'm fine to ride the waves but 🤔 need to spend more time in this discord so i don't mess up next build accidentally

vagrant mist
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👍 take your time

obtuse sedge
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but it will beat the 3700x
Wait isn't the Ryzen 7 3700x better for multitasking? Ik the 5600x beats it in gaming but for working on the side I'm damn sure 3700x is better

naive pendant
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The 1% lows in the new ryzens don't look so good compared to intel

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Disappointed tbh

obtuse sedge
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eh still cheaper

naive pendant
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The 5900x isnt

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And still lower

obtuse sedge
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fair

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should I get the i7-9700k or the Ryzen 7 3700x?

hollow thorn
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For gaming or

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@naive pendant honestly the lows aren't that bad

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It's just rdr2 where it's prominent

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In other games it's pretty similar

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AMD even beats Intel in GTA V in lows

cinder sphinx
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which x570 mobo is good for 5900x? msi? asus?

hollow thorn
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X570 also isn't required.

naive pendant
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But it's a bit disappointing the 5900x like in total war, worse lows but costs much more

hollow thorn
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Not really

cinder sphinx
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which x570 mobo model is better for 5900x?

hollow thorn
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@naive pendant lmfao total war campaign benchmark has 5900x getting BETTER lows than 10900k

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@cinder sphinx what about B550 velocita :D

cinder sphinx
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there are so many models, i don't know which to choose. and see so many recommended msi mag tomahawk wifi

naive pendant
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Oops is that a swear word

cinder sphinx
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b550 hmm ThinkingEgg

hollow thorn
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X570 tomahawk is a good board on paper

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But it being at the 200$ msrp is also on paper

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Haven't seen it under like 260$

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By the way x570 isn't just better than b550 or anything like that

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The chipset differences are just pcie 4.0 chipset lanes

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While B550 still has CPU pcie 4.0 lanes for PCIe_1 and m.2_1, everything else pcie 3.0

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Anyways, @cinder sphinx velocita is a very good board at ~220$, I mean, try to find a board with post code and 2.5gbe at the price :p

naive pendant
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@naive pendant lmfao total war campaign benchmark has 5900x getting BETTER lows than 10900k
@hollow thorn
Not at OC

cinder sphinx
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does b550 one have bluetooth support? so i can connect wireless controller 🙂

hollow thorn
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@naive pendant you know that OCing means likely lower lows right

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Lemme check

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Don't remember if velocita has wifi

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As in

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OCing makes the lows unstable

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Depending on the game

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Aw velocita doesn't have wifi

naive pendant
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The lows are increased after OCing
They're just lower than the 10900k

hollow thorn
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@naive pendant no I'm saying OC makes the lows unstable, so I wouldn't compare OCed lows

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Hell I wouldn't compare OCed results at all imo

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But eh

naive pendant
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Wouldn't the lows be what shows instability tho isn't that the point

hollow thorn
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Mhm

naive pendant
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And if they're higher than it's less unstable

hollow thorn
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Who knows

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OCed lows are weird

cinder sphinx
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how many system fan header are there on x570 aorus elite wifi? i only seeing 2 on the photo

neat estuary
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Da x570 ToMaHoOk is 220$. If you find it in stock. Just MSI garbage but hey!

cinder sphinx
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so msi x570 tomahawk is a shet garbage board by majority of you here?

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is it weird to use x570 tuf wifi with rog strix 3080 oc?

split copper
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What

cinder sphinx
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is it weird to install rog strix rtx 3080 gaming oc on x570 tuf gaming wifi mobo?

fresh river
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Why is it weird

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If it works if works

cinder sphinx
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cos 1 is tuf and the other is rog strix.. sorry i'm noob Distraught

magic cedar
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Not weird

errant kite
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that's like saying mixing amd cpus with nvidia gpus is weird lol @cinder sphinx

long basalt
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So, apparently the 5800X is the worst of the new CPUs in terms of price.

fathom spruce
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6900x

cursive quest
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That's a gpu

long basalt
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The 5600X is the value winner, but the 5900X is only 100 dollars more, and is significantly better in multithreaded tasks.

cursive quest
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Yeah

fathom spruce
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7900x

cursive quest
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They're all pretty good though

long basalt
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Town, can you like stop just randomly putting numbers in front of 900x?

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And actually make a sensical conversation.

fathom spruce
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why

cursive quest
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Bruh

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If you were talking to someone and they kept interrupting with 7900xt what would you do

fathom spruce
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i would say thank you

long basalt
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Can you also stop doing that?

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It's real effing annoying.

fathom spruce
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i like xbox

naive pendant
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/kick townbig

cinder sphinx
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asus rog crosshair viii x570 wifi or asus rog strix x570 e-gaming?

hollow thorn
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Hm

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@cinder sphinx whats going to be your budget for the Mobo?

fresh river
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It came

hollow thorn
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At that high a budget, x570 unify xD

cinder sphinx
amber sandal
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just got my 5600x

fresh river
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My parents technically got it for me as a holiday gift and theyre insisting i give them the CPU until december lol

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they wanna wrap it up

worn night
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That's so cool

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Gonna be a solid combo

vast granite
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Yo that's painful

meager blade
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Can someone help me

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Pc starts for 3 secs then dies

gritty meadow
lethal glacier
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Is asrock good for mobos?

narrow mortar
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@fresh river just take the cpu out of the box...let them wrap the cooler lol. Hope you enjoy the new cpu!

silent sandal
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They’re good enough lol

lone oar
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they have some that are better than others

narrow mortar
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@lethal glacier I've only used one asrock board...an itx b350 board and it's been great...

fresh river
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@fresh river just take the cpu out of the box...let them wrap the cooler lol. Hope you enjoy the new cpu!
@narrow mortar Lol i odn't have any of the ot her parts

lone oar
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if youre thinking of getting a b550 get the msi one that costs like 109 bucks

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it has wifi

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and its good

fresh river
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I still need to find a b550 one that comes with the new bios so i dont have to flash the board

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and not to mentiopn I don't have half my parts

lone oar
safe solar
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nice

upbeat galleon
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best itx ryzen 5000 board?

polar lichen
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How is the 5000x supply situation?

vast granite
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wait that already has the new bios

lone oar
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why itx

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How is the 5000x supply situation?
@polar lichen the 5600x is 65w

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idk about the other ones

upbeat galleon
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ty

lone oar
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wait that isnt the best one

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the best one is just 200 bucks plus

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that one is the best value one

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and its good

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why would you get that though lol

upbeat galleon
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just thinking whether the 011 dynamic with custom loop or an itx build lol

wraith rampart
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guys im torn on what mobo to buy for x570 cause i still got a x370 need some opinions

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or 5 series these are b550 because idk i dont need x70 really

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which one

silent sandal
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Rog strix I guess

wraith rampart
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ugh but the Gigabyte has that sleek white but the ROG has RGB

jovial flare
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just get the one that has the most functionality for ur purposes

silent sandal
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Ngl I don’t like the look of the gigabyte

jovial flare
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then get the rog

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that simple

silent sandal
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I’m not the one getting it lol

wraith rampart
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yeah well rn i have a msi x370 titanium so its hard for which to choose for my purpose is really only white and is ATX

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and AMD ofc

silent sandal
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Also looking for a white b550, but not too pricey

thin dagger
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I know one for around 180

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nvm someone linked it already

silent sandal
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The rog strix?

thin dagger
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ya

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wanted to buy that one aswell

silent sandal
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Anything that’s cheaper than it?

thin dagger
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in white?

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this one is kinda white but not full atx https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1576897-REG/asrock_b550m_pro4_amd_am4.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiAhZT9BRDmARIsAN2E-J0qMZ7DLqGYGtOfpT_hs2tlIKziNd90ioWwJzBW4DtkJjI1nUcdR9waApuKEALw_wcB

ASRock B550M PRO4 AM4 Micro-ATX Motherboard

Buy ASRock B550M PRO4 AM4 Micro-ATX Motherboard featuring Micro-ATX Form Factor, AMD B550 Chipset, AM4 Socket, 4 x Dual-Channel DDR4-4733 (OC), 6 x SATA III | 2 x M.2, PCIe 4.0 x16 | PCIe 3.0 x1, Realtek ALC1200 7.1-Channel HD Audio, Gigabit LAN Port, Supports Windows 10 (64-B...

silent sandal
#

What do they take off with matx?

thin dagger
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As far as i know nothing and it's just a size diff

gritty meadow
#

3 PCI-e expansion ports

silent sandal
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Is that a problem?

pastel monolith
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Not as long as you only have 3 pcie things you want to use

quaint totem
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Do you guys know a good alternative for a ryzen 2600

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around the same price

kind hearth
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Could possibly find a 8700 used

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@quaint totem

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Or 8700k if possible

quaint totem
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Ok thank you

kind hearth
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But what do you want to do with your computer

graceful parcel
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Wanted a Ryzen 5800x, but ultimately just ordered a 3900xt on sale for pretty much the same price

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Poggers?

kind hearth
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Ehhhh

quaint totem
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Mostly gaming

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But I’m on a budget

graceful parcel
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Still gamer

kind hearth
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Then yes, 8700 anyday

quaint totem
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Ok thanks

kind hearth
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But id your that on a budget get a 2600 or 3600

silent sandal
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Is the msi b550 a pro a good board?

modest ice
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I got a socket that needs filling

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sings the 5900x blue

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s

silent sandal
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What

modest ice
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I'll check newegg everyday until my build is whole

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Apparently some 5950X's are hitting over 5ghz

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Stock

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Looks like the boost spec is no longer an "up to" but now a minimum silicon quality

silent sandal
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Wow. That’s impressive if true

pastel monolith
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the gamers nexus one did no oc

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they called amd to make sure it was normal and they confirmed

modest ice
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So it's loosely a 5ghz part

pastel monolith
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I was actually really impressed

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gave the 10900k a good fight and I think it won even in gaming

modest ice
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It did overall

pastel monolith
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only lost red dead and like one other game

silent sandal
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That’s really cool actually

modest ice
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Other shill games as I call them

silent sandal
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Quite impressive amd

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Now wow us again with the radeons

modest ice
#

It seems like zen3 benefits from heaving threads

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And the intel parts benefit from lighter threads

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So freqency is king in lighter threads

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And IPC is king in heavier threads

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At least that's my theory

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In reality I have no idea what I'm talking about but game devs could shed some light into it if they can be bothered to

silent sandal
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Okay but uh

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Is the msi b550 a pro a good board?

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Good value or no?

lethal glacier
modest ice
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Compare price versus other b550 boards and if it has the features you need then you can pretty much judge for yourself

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I would opt for MSI over Asrock just because of prestige bias

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For a premium of course

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But if cost is the only thing that matters why not go with Asrock

pastel monolith
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could probably get 2 Asrocks for the price and have a backup lol

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that 89.99 black friday ASrock is a great deal

modest ice
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They've been in business for a while so I am lead to believe they may have decent customer service

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My last value mobo was a gigabyte and it served me really well

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In fact it's serving me right now

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Since 2013

pastel monolith
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me too gigabyte z370 hd3p

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well not since 2013

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but the value gigabyte part

worn night
#

Anyone know which RGB fans will give me the most frames per second?

silent sandal
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What regular ATX board would you recommend (helping my brother out, looks are important to him lol)

prisma nymph
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for what cpu

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and what price

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tomahawk max is usually a good baseline

normal jewel
#

I'm ready to try to fix the XMP issues on my MSI motherboard

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can someone help?

silent sandal
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5800x and preferably cheaper than the $180 tomahawk

normal jewel
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Does anyone know why it's not working?

modern shale
#

Guys what are good ram sticks for amd that look nice

modest ice
#

The royals

prisma nymph
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ew no

modest ice
#

They look like jewels

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I like the silver/platinum looking ones

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@normal jewel Load memory profile [ENABLED]

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*presets

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Try that

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It could also be that your bios isn't reporting the memory freq. correctly?

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Should definitely open a ticket with the vendor

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But in the mean time you should be able to use your system

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You can also try disabling memory fast boot

mint crown
#

MSI MEG x570 unify will work with 5900x cpu right?

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bought the motherboard a few months ago

modest ice
#

Yes it should

mint crown
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do i need an older chip to update bios?

modest ice
#

Probably not

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But you should update your bios first anyway

mint crown
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how if i have no cpu?

prisma nymph
#

what do you mean probably not?

normal jewel
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MSI MEG x570 unify will work with 5900x cpu right?
@mint crown I'm having trouble with loading xmp profiles

prisma nymph
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ofc its gonna need an update

modest ice
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I don't think you need a CPU

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You can flash bios with the flash bios USB port and button on your IO panel

normal jewel
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@normal jewel Load memory profile [ENABLED]
@modest ice I tried that but it didn't work

prisma nymph
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thats a thing?

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huh

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thats pretty nice

modest ice
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All you need is ATX power

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And a USB stick formatted in fat32 with the aptly named binary file

mint crown
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@mint crown I'm having trouble with loading xmp profiles
@normal jewel define trouble

modest ice
#

@mint crown You can help him troubleshoot for a better understanding of "trouble"

normal jewel
#

@normal jewel define trouble
@mint crown the power turns on but it doesn't boot. It just spits out a whole bunch of errors that aren't in the manual

modest ice
#

Can we see these errors?

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Also is your bios fully up to date?

normal jewel
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I got error 0d, 22.

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Yes I updated the bios

neat estuary
#

If you bought really high MHz ram then that’s ur issue.

modest ice
#

There's a newer bios 7C35vA7

normal jewel
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And I'm also getting error 02

neat estuary
#

List ur ram specs.

modest ice
#

Oh you have it already my bad

normal jewel
#

Gskill 3600 16 19 19 39

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Two sticks of 16gb

modest ice
#

Did you try just one stick at a time?

normal jewel
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No

modest ice
#

Try it

neat estuary
#

Anyway I don’t have time to wait. So I’ll post some ideas. Try to insert one stick at a time , make certain it’s in the proper slots in 2 and 4.

modest ice
#

One and then the other

normal jewel
#

Ok

neat estuary
#

Also try a cmos reset if all else fails.

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If you insert a single stick it has to be in slot 2.

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Count away from cpu.

naive pendant
#

why is the price showing as $700

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lmao

dreamy flame
#

yea its like that for me too

naive pendant
#

are they going to increase price?

dreamy flame
#

im pr sure its just a website error

naive pendant
#

🤞

normal jewel
#

Did you try just one stick at a time?
@modest ice I just tried one at a time and the xmp but I get an error code 07

modest ice
#

Are you able to boot without XMP?

normal jewel
#

Yes

modest ice
#

There's 3 components here that could be failing

normal jewel
#

I have to keep clearing the cmos

modest ice
#

1 CPU, 2 Mobo, and 3 Ram

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The CPU houses the memory controller

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See if you can boot at 3200mhz

normal jewel
#

Ok

modest ice
#

I would recommend opening a trouble ticket with MSI first

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Or operate in compatibility mode until more Zen3 stock is available and then bring it in to a repair shop where they can test the different components

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And then RMA the one that is sourcing all of this suck you're experiencing

normal jewel
#

See if you can boot at 3200mhz
@modest ice I can boot to 3200

modest ice
#

Ok

#

Use that for now

#

Either your ram is underspec'ed

#

You mobo causing compatibility issues

#

Or your memory controller on your 5800X is defective

normal jewel
modest ice
#

You should run mem tests @ 3200 to ensure system sanity

prisma nymph
#

ive never actually looked into ram all that much, is it saying intel xmp specifically a problem?

modest ice
#

That ram is not listed in the compatibility list for that board

#

Even for 3000 series

#

I would recommend an exchange

prisma nymph
#

wow thats suprising

#

what

normal jewel
#

Ok

modest ice
#

Or running it at 3200mhz and opening a trouble ticket with MSI

prisma nymph
#

how is that a thing

modest ice
#

Maybe they can add support for it

normal jewel
#

Do you have any recommendations?

prisma nymph
#

3600 trident z is a super popular kit, how tf is it not supported

modest ice
#

There's other 16GB kits that are on the supported list

#

I think MSI could add support for it in the future

#

If that is what the problem is

normal jewel
#

I can't find a 3600mhz set on that list

thin dagger
#

any1 know the diff between these?

kind hearth
#

Wifi

#

I think

thin dagger
#

ya that and 1 more thing mayebe

#

what does the -a or the -f mean?

neat estuary
#

QVL listed dont mean that much. most ram can run on pretty much any system

fallen lynx
#

MOST

#

which is why the QVLs exist

kind hearth
#

Yes

neat estuary
#

Usually if ur kit isnt found that means they where too lazy to verify it

normal jewel
#

do you have a recommendation for replacement?

neat estuary
#

Thats especially the case with high capacity kits

#

Im running a 3600 cl16-16-16-36 b-die kit on my 3700x atm. Its expensive as sin but Newegg has these kits without RGB too. I just cant believe those wouldnt work

#

Ive used this kit in several Ryzen builds now. Excellent

#

Its not B-die. But its great

normal jewel
#

I want 2x 16gb of 3600mhz or more

modest ice
#

I ordered a 3200mhz kit PAtriot steel viper 2x16GB

#

Because the 32GB 3600MHZ kits were just ridiculously higher priced

#

And the performance delta is somewhat negligeable

#

If I were you I'd just operate at 3200mhz and hope MSI adds support if they can

#

Because I'm lazy and that would be good enough for me

normal jewel
#

it's much easier for me to swap out ram then disassemble my computer for a bios update

modest ice
#

I don't see how but ok

#

You should be able to update bios by putting a USB stick in and rebooting

normal jewel
#

don't I need to disassemble the computer first?

modest ice
#

No

normal jewel
#

these are the same price as what I have but they claim support

#

also better latency

neat estuary
#

Just look for that ram in 2x16. You will find it.

normal jewel
neat estuary
#

Actually the intel part might be a problem. I came across the kit you had. Generally it’s just marketing but who knows

#

CPUs do respond differently to ram so the XMP is likely off if it’s just for intel.

#

I would pick a Trident Z kit over that tbh

normal jewel
#

why?

neat estuary
#

Because Gskill is consistently been good and reliable. Plus RGB is nicer IMO

graceful elm
#

@pastel monolith

modest ice
#

Except for this particular instance though

#

Ram compatibility is a b

neat estuary
#

I suspect the XMP was set with intel controller in mind.

normal jewel
#

what do you recommend I do @modest ice ?

modest ice
#

Use and enjoy 3200mhz

#

You already have it

normal jewel
#

but I paid for 3600

modest ice
#

I don't think the extra performance is really worth the hassle

neat estuary
normal jewel
#

I have that set in black

neat estuary
#

This kit ive used as well in Ryzen builds. worked flawlessly

modest ice
#

If that's how you feel return the kit and get a different one

neat estuary
#

This isnt labeled Intel

#

So XMP is just a value set with the ram to tell bios how to set the OC. You could likely get it to run to spec just by looking up and copying the XMP values from this kit

#

But then whenever bios resets you have to redo it.. little annoying

normal jewel
#

the silver clashes with my build

#

is there a problem with crucial memory kits?

neat estuary
#

not really. If they suit you then by all means let er rip

normal jewel
#

I think I'll take the dive

neat estuary
#

let me study it again for a bit

normal jewel
#

study what?

neat estuary
#

I was just reading the specs on the Cruicial kit. It looks ok

#

It seems like about the same functionally as the kit i linked

normal jewel
#

better latency

#

15-18-18-38

neat estuary
#

sort of. you might look it up and see if its b-die.. IF it is then its a absoulte steal

normal jewel
#

compared to the tridenZ 16-19-19-39

neat estuary
#

its cl16

#

only the secondaries are slightly tighter

normal jewel
#

how do I find out if it's b-die?

neat estuary
#

goggle b-die finder

#

and see if you can find it in the list

#

Btw i dont recommend you actually shop for b-die unless you are into OC.. The b-die tax isnt worth it unless you actually OC it past the XMP

normal jewel
#

I can't find it

neat estuary
normal jewel
#

what is b-die and what makes it good?

#

it's not on the list is what I meant

neat estuary
#

Its a variant of ram chip that scales best with Ryzen CPUs

#

like a very high bin cpu is better then a low bin

#

A common XMP value for B-die is 3600cl16-16-16-36.. You can often tell if Gskill ram is b-die just by looking at the secondaries

normal jewel
#

my current kit is b-die nvm

modest ice
#

I'm a propenent of equality, we should all be using cyrix 233mhz sponsored by the gubermint

neat estuary
#

😄

gritty meadow
#

@modest ice have you actually used those?

#

because i have

#

and that is the stuff of nightmares

neat estuary
#

I must be too young for u guys 😄

gritty meadow
#

they oc fairly ok thou

#

but holy heck are they bad in weird ways

modest ice
#

Yeah

#

Bor some reason in the duke3d setup gui there was a pixel that was miscoloured

#

Everything was blue and white except for this one char slot that was brownish orange

#

Not sure if that was specific to the cpu

#

It was a good cpu if you wanted to watch a power point presentation of quake

#

My neighboor had one, I was on an INTC p-100 retail overclocked to 120mhz

gritty meadow
#

i would not be surprised, but things was a weee bit more complicated back then :)

south swan
#

3000Mhz CL14 vs 3200MHz CL16... is there much of a performance difference there?

modest ice
#

No

#

But there is one

pale mist
#

guys,

#

I have a problem

modest ice
#

If you want to spend 20% more to get ~1% better performance in specific circumstances then go for it

south swan
#

Lol

#

Aight then

pale mist
#

I am running a r93900x, asus prime b550-prime and a 3080

south swan
#

Thanks

pale mist
#

but the ram cant move from 2133, its a 3200 kit

#

when I bump it up the system is not stable

naive pendant
#

I know that no one knows when all the new parts will be back in stock

#

But do you guys think the amd cpus will be back in stock for the holidays?

gritty meadow
#

@naive pendant multiple times, but will they be out of stock again by then? we dont know

naive pendant
#

Ok thank you

cinder sphinx
#

Just saw this on newegg. Oh my god. But when I clicked into the page, it is showing $549.99. I really hope price not increase like hell crazy when it is available

📎 omgnewegg5900x.png
warm helm
#

if you look closely it shows that it is showing that price for two of the processor

cinder sphinx
#

Oh... i didn't notice that. okay, my mistake. sorry.

#

what does the intel gigabit ethernet port on like rog strix x570 e gaming mobo do? faster than the 2.5g Lan?

main pulsar
#

gigabit ethernet is 1 Gbps

modest ice
#

yes

main pulsar
#

2.5 Gbps is 2.5 Gbps

modest ice
#

940mbps effective

main pulsar
#

the majority of consumer networking equipment will autoneg down to 1Gbps, regardless of the speed of the on board NIC

#

so for your purposes, they are identical

modest ice
#

Although you could potentially create a LAG for 3.5gbps

main pulsar
#

can your ISP keep up? probably not lol

modest ice
#

My ISP can get me 2.488gbps

#

Not legit though

#

Legit I can get 1.9gbs max

main pulsar
#

damn, nice

modest ice
#

Yeah but I opt for 500mbps because it makes more economic sense

#

I actually saved 2$/mo permanently by upgrading from 300mbps to 500 lol

#

It's important to revise your price plans periodically

main pulsar
#

my 100mb is good enough, the major issue is just dealing with spectrum outages

#

money cant fix that kek

modest ice
#

Yes it can

#

Will Papa Musk

#

Get spaceX internet

#

And dual WAN that sh....

meager blade
#

Can’t afford good cpus

main pulsar
#

ok

modest ice
#

I been there

#

My first PC I found in the trash

#

286 10mhz

#

Then I inherited a 386 40mhz w/ math co-processor

main pulsar
#

i found my first pc in the trash too lol

#

p4

#

3.4 ghz

modest ice
#

Yeah but a p4 actually belonged there even when it was new 😆

main pulsar
#

gottem

modest ice
#

Hyperthreading was intel's bulldozer moment

#

It was the p4's way of competing with the athlon X2's

#

This is the first time in my life where I can build the computer that I want without making any compromises

#

I'm 37 now

late pine
#

damn I thought my gigabit fiber was fast

modest ice
#

So it took a while

main pulsar
#

kinda same

late pine
#

people out here with 2.5 gig internet

#

honestly tho I think latency is just as important

main pulsar
#

waiting on that 3080 FE tho

modest ice
#

6800xt here

#

and 5900X

late pine
#

waiting for 3080 with more vram

main pulsar
#

amd probably the better buy lmao

late pine
#

I was very lucky to get a 5900x lol

main pulsar
#

im sticking with intel/nvidia, but the next machine will be as soon as AMD has a zen cpu with SMT4

late pine
#

anyone who ordered 5900x on launch day having luck getting far cry 6

modest ice
#

SMT4 will be useless for home use

late pine
#

I am kinda annoyed they listed the promo on launch day hours after it sold out

modest ice
#

I'm annoyed on your behalf

#

But then again, I still have a few far cry's in my steam library/uplay that I have yet to start playing soo

#

If I really wanted to play far cry I'd start with the ones I haven't finished

late pine
#

it's more just the principle of the thing tbh

modest ice
#

That's the problem when you have 700+ titles in your library

#

You don't have enough time to play everything

#

And when I do have time to play something it's usually the same games over and over

#

HEck I still play openTTD on a regular basis

late pine
#

The games I play are not very demanding, I mostly want a lot of cores so I can spin up a bunch of virtual machines

hollow thorn
#

VMs go vroom

late pine
#

lol

gritty meadow
#

@modest ice OpenTTD is a lovely lovely project :)

late pine
#

I am curious if games scale to >6 cores whether the 5800x might have slightly better performance because there doesn't need to be communication between two ccx's

gritty meadow
#

compared to what @late pine

late pine
#

better than 5900x

#

because it has a 6+6 core layout so if a game uses 8 cores, two of them can't communicate with the same cache

gritty meadow
#

the likelyhood of that manifesting in anything you notice is so very very slim.

modest ice
#

I think the scheduling mitigates that problem

#

And if your game does make use of additional cores the latency penalty is probably nullified

#

But it would be interesting to field test it

#

For sure

gritty meadow
#

dont worry, i fully expect that some youtuber will try and make click bait video about how the world is ending IF there is "any" kind of impact from it

modest ice
#

Click bait JUST LIKE OUR SPONSOR SQUARE SPACE

late pine
#

not exactly world ending for AMD if the solution is to buy a 5800x or 5950x instead lol

gritty meadow
#

ofc not

#

but if the question is: can you make a benchmark show there is a difference?

#

ofc you can

#

will it make a difference you will actually notice? i would be very surprised if you can

haughty delta
#

Who makes better CPUs for server usage? Intel or AMD?

late pine
#

depends on what the server is for

haughty delta
#

I'm planning on using it for running a Minecraft server, and some discord bots

hollow thorn
#

Also, you might want to specify to start off, because usually people just think EPYC for server.

late pine
#

Minecraft servers, if you are using Bukkit or a derivative thereof (such as Spigot or Paper), depend on single threaded performance because there is one main thread and one more for plugins

modest ice
#

You could get away with a q6600 for those purposes

#

Just buy what you want

#

8 cores should be plenty

late pine
#

if you want to use more than 2 threads you would need to be running bungee or something like that

modest ice
#

Or if you're anything like me you can use that as an excuse to justify the 5900X

haughty delta
#

so I could get away with a Ryzen 9 5000 series CPU with that

late pine
#

how big of a server

haughty delta
#

the Minecraft server?

late pine
#

yeah

#

like how many players are you expecting

main pulsar
#

imo, getting the 5800x is weird, its totally worth the extra 100 dollars for the 5900x

haughty delta
#

not that many, but the world is huge

late pine
#

and also what type of server

#

is everyone gonna be on the same world?

haughty delta
#

yes

lone oar
#

ooo mc derver i hear

#

server

#

when is it gonna be launched

late pine
#

if you are only running a single server, and not a network of servers with bungee, single threaded performance is the only thing that really matters because Minecraft server is not multithreaded

haughty delta
#

what about Discord bots?

late pine
#

most discord bots are trivial to run

#

compared to a mc server

modest ice
#

What? MC server is single threaded? 😮

late pine
#

yeah it's kinda crappy

modest ice
#

That sounds like it should be so easy to multi thread

late pine
#

welll

#

a lot of the things happening need to be synchronous

#

and the code mojang wrote was really only intended for sharing small survival worlds

haughty delta
#

wouldn't that require a good GPU, though?

late pine
#

that's why big servers use bungee and split players off into a ton of smaller servers

#

discord bots don't use gpu

#

neither does mc server

haughty delta
#

ok

late pine
#

you will need something so the server will boot but that's pretty much it

modest ice
#

I suppose if you have less than 8 players at any given time a 5600x would be a great option

late pine
#

honestly I would recommend a ryzen 3 3000 series or an i3 10 series

#

you literally won't use the other cores unless you have multiple servers running

modest ice
#

Or are gaming on the same machine

haughty delta
#

ok

late pine
#

well it depends, is this machine dedicated to server only

#

or are you also gaming on it

haughty delta
#

so a CPU like the Ryzen 5 3600 I'm going to be using in my gaming PC could easily run that

#

aight

#

server only

modest ice
#

For a dedicated server you really don't need too much

#

If you bought an actual server chip you're have less performance for a single instance

late pine
#

for server only, honestly I would get a 10th gen i3, trying to find one for cheap, if you want max performance

#

install ubuntu instead of windows

upper radish
#

Everybody’s take on intel Rocket lake cpu coming in March?

modest ice
#

gl, hf

late pine
#

alternatively a ryzen 3 3000 series overclocked might be able to match the performance

#

then like 16gig ram and any nvme ssd that has dram + slc cache

#

for a large survival world you also want decent storage

modest ice
#

SSD for sure

haughty delta
#

yeah

#

the world is pretty large, and has some huge, complex structures in it, and stuff

modest ice
#

Minecraft is really just a multiplayer database

late pine
#

in terms of actually running the server, I would stronly suggest you use ubuntu or another flavor of linux instead of windows

#

instead of spigot or the official server jar

modest ice
#

If you're measuring your world by how many structures it has then I'm suspecting it's not that big

late pine
#

the entities are really what cause lag

modest ice
#

Yeah thank god they put a limit of mobs per square meter

#

People used to kill the performance of my computer with their mob farms

#

I sense that a 5900X would be able to handle that type of load better

late pine
#

not if it's a single server

#

it it would work really well if there were multiple connected with bungee

modest ice
#

In terms of affecting the overall performance of the system

late pine
#

but the only thing the server is running is mc

#

in this case anyway

modest ice
#

Nah, MC serv, chart plotting appl, brokerage software and games simultaneously

#

The FX8350 struggles with that

#

Speaking of brokerage, today Lisa Su has paid for my new computer

late pine
#

nice

modest ice
#

Yeah I haven't taken my profits yet, I'm hoping she pays for my next one also XD

#

She already paid off my mortgage in the last 3 years

hollow thorn
#

nice

modest ice
#

hehehe

graceful elm
#

any of you big brain fellas know anything about m.2s?

late pine
#

what about them

modest ice
#

I installed one in a friend's computer

graceful elm
#

I have this one

#

nidhoggen told me to get 2 of these instead

#

but it shows a slower speed

#

but is it even noticeable?

modest ice
#

No, signle device is better if you can afford it

#

Not noticeable

late pine
#

sx8200 is a better drive

#

it trades blows with the much more expensive samsung 970

modest ice
#

You probably wouldn't even notice the difference between SATA3 and PCIE 4.0 tbh

late pine
modest ice
#

It can be measured but it's not really noticeable in day to day operations

#

You're looking at a few seconds here and there

#

For general use any half decent SSD will do

graceful elm
#

im using the m.2 for my games

#

i got a normal ssd for my system and other things

late pine
#

it's really similar tbh

#

that said I would suggest you pay a premium for TLC instead of QLC because TLC will last significantly longer

modest ice
#

The 2TB makes your system more scalable in the future

#

And the additional performance from 2x 1TB will not be noticeable

late pine
#

but sx8200 is a higher tier than p1 for sure, if you do care

#

and is probably the better buy

graceful elm
#

alright, i think ill just stick with the sx8200

modest ice
#

But the pain in the rear that having your storage split down the middle like that will be quite apparent

graceful elm
#

i actually already have it

#

i was gonna return it if i did get the other things

#

but i wanted to make sure

late pine
#

the higher capacity nvmes are already faster because they effectively run their nand chips in parallel

#

so you are still getting the performance benefit from buying more storage

graceful elm
#

Sounds good

#

thanks guys

late pine
#

sx8200 2tb is the one I also havre

#

amazon gave me the $20 coupon

modest ice
#

The numbers on paper would make it seem like there's a drastic different but there really isn't

graceful elm
#

i got $80 off

#

its still $80 off rn i think

late pine
#

I meant 20 off the 250

graceful elm
#

oh i see

late pine
#

330 isn't the real msrp lmao

#

or at least hasn't been for awhile

modest ice
#

It's 299 CAD

late pine
modest ice
#

I went with Sabrent 2TB PCIE 3.0

#

Came in a nice tin box

#

Excellent presentation

late pine
#

nice

#

which one

polar fern
#

Yo so my cousin just swapped his cpu to a 3900x and his pc boots up but he gets no monitor signal

#

any help?

modest ice
#

SB-RKTQ-2TB

late pine
#

what was the old cpu? and what motherboard?

hollow thorn
#

rocket q eh

modest ice
#

Yup

#

Nice and cheap

hollow thorn
#

fair

polar fern
#

Old cpu was a 2600

#

b350f

hollow thorn
#

bios update time

polar fern
#

he needs to update bios?

late pine
#

how much did you pay for it

hollow thorn
#

Yes

modest ice
#

By the time this thing can be really considered slow it's not spending nearly double on a firecuda that will have made a difference

polar fern
#

how would he do that?

hollow thorn
#

B350 can't support 3rd gen out of box

#

Asus b350-f?

polar fern
#

yes

hollow thorn
polar fern
#

How would he update

#

he can't access bios

modest ice
#

Put the old CPU back in there

hollow thorn
#

what

#

yea

polar fern
#

oooh

#

okay

#

damn he just installed his cooler

#

thats a rip

hollow thorn
#

uninstall time

polar fern
#

rofl

modest ice
#

He need to upgrade to a CPU that works

#

Update bios

#

And then upgrade to a CPU that performs better AND also works

#

If he has the feature he can do it without touching the current CPU

#

Just with the USB stick and the button in the back of the IO panel

hollow thorn
#

It doesn't

#

I checked

polar fern
#

fr

#

So is it possible to do it without switching to the old cpu?

#

or no

potent axle
#

probably not

hollow thorn
#

no

#

it's impossible unless you can somehow physically flash the bios chip

potent axle
#

yeah

safe geode
#

whats the restock rate lookin like for zen 3 processors?

graceful elm
#

@late pine

hollow thorn
#

oh you got SM2622EN

#

wait

#

there's a G

#

uhhh

#

the 2262ENG eh

#

hm

late pine
#

according to the quote in the techpowerup article SM2262EN = SM2262ENG

#

so it seems like you got the fast one

graceful elm
#

lets gooooo

#

on amazon there are 2 different speed options

late pine
#

I think the two speed options are two different sku's entirely

graceful elm
#

maybe

late pine
#

the reason people are complaining about the sx8200 pro is adata didn't announce the change, they are selling it as the same product

#

anyway fingers crossed I also got the fast controller

#

although tbh it doesn't really matter

#

I just like getting what I paid for

graceful elm
#

right

#

@late pine do you think the new amd gpus will be on b&h?

late pine
#

Probably

#

If it's a preorder like ryzen tho they might not ship for a loooong time

#

Newegg will have some if ur fast enough

modest ice
#

I was there when you got your 5900X

#

I wasn't fast enough

#

OR maybe it's the canuckistan site that didn't have stock

#

ooo dungeons 3 free on epic game store

#

Downloading at 43MB/sec

#

60.9

#

Getting my money's worth from the ISP

late pine
#

Canada probably had worse stock tbh

modest ice
#

They had 5 CPU's in store at canada computers when I checked at 9:30ish

#

And they were all spread around Toronto

#

with is like a 5 hour drive

#

I wasn't going to chance it

#

I have a canada computers store right up the street here, but nooooo not that one

graceful elm
#

makes sense

modest ice
#

The 6800XT isn't out yet so I'm not in a hurry yet

#

And I guess that's the price you pay for trying to build a machine out of vaporware

#

I'll be up at 9am again on the 18th

graceful elm
#

if i gotta pre order it i will do what i must

#

cause i gotta wait till Christmas for my ram and cpu fan anyways

robust cypress
#

im looking for a set of ram what do i get

#

i need 3600mhz

#

16gb

#

2x8

#

ive found afew sets just abit confused about Cas latency i know lower is better but yeah

noble sable
#

all the appropriate connections

modest ice
#

ive found afew sets just abit confused about Cas latency i know lower is better but yeah
@robust cypress I consider myself to be moderately savvy and this is the best way to go about looking at ram performance IMO

late pine
#

@noble sable yes, power supply connectors are standardized for the most part as long as you are buying atx psu

noble sable
#

just making sure, first time building a pc without the help of my old tech friend (started doing meth and just lost it)

late pine
#

it's always good to make sure

#

good luck with ur build

naive pendant
#

When looking for Ram Memory should I look out for the “Mhz”?

gritty meadow
#

what cpu do you have @naive pendant ?

naive pendant
#

3600XT possibly upgrading to 5600X

gritty meadow
#

ideally 3600 CL16 for the 3600XT

faint ferry
#

How do you turn on Precision Boost Overdrive for Ryzen Chips.

naive pendant
#

Is 3200 not good enough?

gritty meadow
#

notice the first word :)

naive pendant
#

Can I go lower than 3200?

gritty meadow
#

the further you go from 3600 the more performance you leave on the table

naive pendant
#

So 3600 is the recommended mhz?

gritty meadow
#

yes

#

hence why i said, ideally.

naive pendant
#

Oh okay thanks!

polar mist
#

is there any difference between flashing your BIOS and updating it or do they do the same thing?

naive pendant
#

Is there any difference between C16 and CL16?

gritty meadow
#

different names for the same thing @polar mist

polar mist
#

ok thanks

gritty meadow
#

same for your question @naive pendant :)

naive pendant
#

Awesome thnx

hollow thorn
#

C16 easier to type than CL16 :D

gritty meadow
#

you are both very welcome

naive pendant
#

So do any of you remember how I was going to get a free i9?

#

Well I have it!

gritty meadow
#

yes, getting a job and buying it

#

have fun!

naive pendant
#

Engraved on the CPUs heat spreader isn't what it is it just says "intel confidential"

gritty meadow
#

engineering sample

naive pendant
#

Yea

#

At least it says that it was part of caby lake

mild jackal
#

Post a cpuz screenshot

naive pendant
#

?

main pulsar
#

put the cpu in a system, run windows, load up cpuz, send screenshot

naive pendant
#

i currently dont have a motherboard for it but im working on it

main pulsar
#

99 dollars, free shipping, and you can probably look for an affiliate code to get 10% off

#

you say i9, but there are no kaby lake x i9s

naive pendant
#

well it is pre production so that could be a reason but all i know is that it is an i9

#

Can anyone confirm me tht will R9 3900X will work well with ASRock B450 Steel Legend?

modest ice
#

ASRock can

#

Let's see the supported CPU's for that one

#

AM4 Ryzen 9 3900X (100-000000023) 105W Matisse 3.8GHz 6MB B0 P2.30

#

Need Bios revision P2.30 or newer

#

The answer is yes

#

You'll also want to consult the QVL when buying RAM

#

RAM that's outside the QVL may still work

#

But buying ram specified in the QVL will grant you a license to complain if it doen't

high steeple
#

Would you recommend c16 3200 or c18 3600

#

Which would be faster?

#

@gritty meadow

gritty meadow
#

3600

high steeple
#

Kk

#

Ty

faint lichen
#

How much can a non k variant i7 4790 turbo to on all cores?

late pine
#

Yoooo

#

Newegg just emailed me

#

I am getting far cry 6 with my 5900x after all

#

:D

meager blade
#

How much can a non k variant i7 4790 turbo to on all cores?
@faint lichen more than it should

junior bison
#

I am getting far cry 6 with my 5900x after all
@late pine Imagine being able to afford one LMAO

vale oracle
#

would it be worth it to get a B550 board if none of the parts use PCI-E gen 4?

faint lichen
#

@faint lichen more than it should
@meager blade I didnt get you

marble knot
#

hello how you guys doing

meager blade
#

@meager blade I didnt get you
@faint lichen not worth it buying that cpu

#

Buy a new motherboard and a lga 1151 v2 i3

#

Price to performance

faint lichen
#

Ok thx

stone acorn
#

Anyone know when Newegg is restocking the 5600x?

wintry shadow
#

which is the best wifi mobo

#

like what has everything

green terrace
#

You asked 🤣

#

In all seriousness though, there is no best motherboard, you gotta just find one that works for you in your price range

#

WiFi is overrated

naive pendant
#

It's not overrated if it's something important to you

#

Are we still recommending that gskill 3600 ram for the 5000 processors? Or should I go something different. I'm hearing that you optimally want 4000 or more

green terrace
#

It’s overrated because you can get a power line adapter if you need to or a WiFi card

#

WiFi is just slower than the alternatives

wooden oak
#

I have a desktop HP ENVY 700-147c. It actually works fairly well for our needs (not a gamer, just routine use). I have AT&T fiber InterNet1000 (1 GBPS). When I check my configuration with their rating for internet speed it shows that I am deficient in my Network Adapter (Qualcomm Atheros AR8161 PCI-E Gigabit Ethernet Controller (NDIS) which is good for 100 Mbps and I should upgrade to 1 Gbps. It shows my Video Adapter as 768 MB good for 100 Mbps and I should upgrade to 1 Gbps. and lastly is shows my wireless adapter (but I am hardwired) as a Ralink RT3290 802.11bgn Wi-Fi Adapter, wireless 802.11bgn that is good for 300 Mbps and I should upgrade to 1 Gbps. any suggestions on an upgrade for the ethernet controller , video adapter, don't really need to update Wi-Fi.

green terrace
#

Step back, video adapter has no implications on your internet speed @wooden oak

#

That’s a data transfer rate for video only

#

I’m assuming your network adapter (Ethernet) is on your motherboard?

lethal glacier
#

I asked before but can’t find it again. But what’s a good motherboard with WiFi?

vast granite
#

What socket type?

lethal glacier
#

Amd

#

Am4

#

7 3700x

gritty meadow
lethal glacier
#

Thanks @gritty meadow.

gritty meadow
#

you are very welcome :)

modest ice
#

I am getting far cry 6 with my 5900x after all
@late pine Good stuff man

main pulsar
#

wtf

#

i was responding to the most recent message, and i hit send, and suddenly chat refreshed and its gone

#

wait i found it

#

Are we still recommending that gskill 3600 ram for the 5000 processors? Or should I go something different. I'm hearing that you optimally want 4000 or more
@naive pendant where did you hear that?

late pine
#

I found 2x32gb ddr4 3200 cl16 for $170

#

idk if it's worth spending like 100 more to get the faster speed for me

main pulsar
#

64gb of ram?

late pine
#

ye

main pulsar
#

you running VMs?

late pine
#

yes

main pulsar
#

hot

late pine
#

right now I dual boot linux and windows

#

but my new desktop will be powerful enough I can just run both at once

tall yoke
#

would i be able to upgrade from an i5 9500 to an i9 9900k later down the road?

vast granite
#

@late pine curious how would you do that besides a vm?

tall yoke
#

i notice the i5 9500 has a max memory channel of ddr4 2666, would it work with ddr4 3200?

late pine
#

I installed a second nvme drive in my laptop and installed pop os