graphics-cards

[mighty imp]

check ur temps

[frozen owl]

you need to stop vek

lol

[tender mulch]

BIOS has a backup battery. If it goes bad, every will reset to defaults

[mint depot]

stop

[wheat wharf]

temps rn is at idle 40c

[mighty imp]

load temps

not idle

[wheat wharf]

when it's on load it depends

it can be up 83

it hit

83

[tender mulch]

CPU or gpu

[wheat wharf]

gpu

this is a gpu problem

[tender mulch]

Not necessarily. CPU feeds GPU yeah?

If CPU is loaded, it can affect GPU performance

[wheat wharf]

icic

[tender mulch]

Same for disk being used

[frozen owl]

has he tried updating drivers?

[mighty imp]

pretty sure it's some type of throttle

[tender mulch]

Like, updates or antivirus scans being run in the background

[wheat wharf]

they r up to date

[wheat wharf]

anti virus doesnt scan automatically here

i turned that off

[mighty imp]

U have hwinfo?

[wheat wharf]

huh

[mighty imp]

HWInfo

[wheat wharf]

i dont

[mighty imp]

go download

[wheat wharf]

ok

[mighty imp]

ping me when ur done

or not

lol

[frozen owl]

this is where you get it from

https://www.hwinfo.com/files/hwi_702.exe

exact link so you dont accidentally downlaod the manager stuff

[wheat wharf]

i already installed lol

i installed the local

@mighty imp

[mighty imp]

ok

now launch it

choose sensor only

u good?

oh no

he's gone

[wheat wharf]

LMFAO

sorry my mom made cake

lol

im back tho

@mighty imp

[mighty imp]

yes

launch it

click sensor only

scroll to bottom

[wheat wharf]

oki

and

[mighty imp]

scroll up a little

u will find the GPU section

[wheat wharf]

ye

[mighty imp]

now go play ur fortnite for 5 minutes then come back

lol

[wheat wharf]

lol

ight

[frozen owl]

forkknife

[wheat wharf]

ight back

@mighty imp

[mighty imp]

go gpu section

[wheat wharf]

ight

and

[mighty imp]

performance limits

are there any yes

[wheat wharf]

i cant find it

oh

performance

not

power

ight

[mighty imp]

eh

yeah

sure

there should be 5 performane Limit

and first 2 are power and thermal

[wheat wharf]

ye

[mighty imp]

does it say yes

[wheat wharf]

it says no on power and thermal

[mighty imp]

for Current, minimum, and max?

[wheat wharf]

current

[mighty imp]

what about min and max

[wheat wharf]

no

no

waity

wait

[mighty imp]

;-;

[wheat wharf]

nvm

no

no

[mighty imp]

eh

idk update drivers

[vital pivot]

How about you use snippet and grab a screen of hardware info

It might take a few to cover all the data points.

[mighty imp]

yeah

just scroll through everything and if u see a yes tell me

Oh im a regular nor

now

[vital pivot]

Doing what I suggested is a better solution as it is obvious the guy is new to troubleshooting.

[mighty imp]

^^

didn't know u could post ss

[wheat wharf]

well there is a a yes on

[frozen owl]

ok

[wheat wharf]

maximum

[mighty imp]

for

[wheat wharf]

in

performance limits

[vital pivot]

Copy and paste

[frozen owl]

idea

[vital pivot]

@wheat wharf dude your spamming crap

[frozen owl]

press print screen

[mighty imp]

LOL

[frozen owl]

and paste here

look at yourkeyboard

[wheat wharf]

ok

[frozen owl]

find print screen

it should be next to scroll lock

[mighty imp]

that's a starrt

[wheat wharf]

just see the screenshot ffs

[mighty imp]

now drag

the first collum

[frozen owl]

hang on idea

pressthe first oen

[tender mulch]

What's your CPU doing?

[frozen owl]

and make it 4

and do the printscreen thing

and paste it here

should look like

mines way differnet

less values

so just go ahead and do that

this is mine btw

[tender mulch]

Look at the drive useage, 100% rate at 234 MB/s

[frozen owl]

and the gpu is limited to 8gts

uh

why name it that

[dreamy dragon]

hchilazi2#3123 has been warned

Reason: Bad word usage

[wheat wharf]

that's the print poop i think

[frozen owl]

no

[tender mulch]

That's PCI-E 3 bruh

[frozen owl]

so?

[mighty imp]

yeah im also 8gts

shouldn't make a difference tho

[tender mulch]

It's where it should be

[frozen owl]

ah

[tender mulch]

RTX2060

[wheat wharf]

im so confused rn

[mighty imp]

dont mind what we just said

just take ss of everything

[frozen owl]

according to csv

[wheat wharf]

ight lol

[frozen owl]

he didnt thermal throttle on cpu

[wheat wharf]

wordlist*

[frozen owl]

can you not

[wheat wharf]

fine

[frozen owl]

dont bypass

lol

[wheat wharf]

lol

[livid idol]

I thought that wasn't filtered though

[frozen owl]

idk

i thought it was

Performance Limit - Utilization

thats all that shows yes

[tender mulch]

It's not, just don't abuse it

[livid idol]

I remember Sara saying something about that

[frozen owl]

oh yeah

[wheat wharf]

🙃

[frozen owl]

are you doing the screenshots

[mighty imp]

no

LOL

[wheat wharf]

huh no

[mighty imp]

what'd i say

[wheat wharf]

i thought u saw the list

[frozen owl]

ye4ah

was that enough

[wheat wharf]

idk if it was u tell me

[mighty imp]

memory clock 1600

[frozen owl]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oOOCg8X-lAOv-cMo3CR06OFz-nOAYZoch4nKCruAog0/edit?usp=sharing

here

for the ones that cant see

[wheat wharf]

LMAO THE NAME

HAHAHHA

[frozen owl]

didnt you set it that?

[wheat wharf]

ye

lol

[mighty imp]

u restarted hwinfo

u need to have it open

or it wont log it

[wheat wharf]

one sec

lemme

i restarted by mistake once

[frozen owl]

or do this

before playing the game

press the log button

and play the game

and finish

then press the log button again

it will tehn tell uss all the values

[wheat wharf]

ye ik

i did

im playin

[frozen owl]

i know theres a min and max but we can see if it stays at or slightly below max

[wheat wharf]

oki oki

[mighty imp]

ram running at 1600 tho

[wheat wharf]

for some reason the gpu is idle at 1200 mhz rn

[mighty imp]

just play

the

game

[wheat wharf]

ight

[livid idol]

1600 translates to 3200, which is reasonable and won't cause bottleneck on its own

[mighty imp]

[wheat wharf]

i should ping him

@frozen owl

[frozen owl]

what hello

[mighty imp]

GPU power only 60W

[wheat wharf]

tech shiizzz

[mighty imp]

CC only 1200

[dreamy dragon]

hchilazi2#3123 has been warned

Reason: Bad word usage

[wheat wharf]

ye i told u stuff changed idk

it wasnt like this like 15 min ago

idk wat's happening

[frozen owl]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hqWePZttOondkiooLsfq9KBjP_dgiXI5ob5lHHl2Oho/edit?usp=sharing

[mighty imp]

did u do any weird thing on after burner

assuming u have after burner

[wheat wharf]

huh no

it says my gpu is only hitting 1200 mhz

[frozen owl]

how much ram do you ahve

16gb?

[wheat wharf]

16 gb

2 8 gb sticks

3200 mhz

[frozen owl]

@tender mulch could virtual memory be the cause

18950 2917 86.6
18952 2914 86.6
18963 2903 86.7
18941 2925 86.6
18610 3256 85.1
18160 3707 83
Virtual Memory Commited [MB] Virtual Memory Available [MB] Virtual Memory Load [%]
System System System

its aying 83% virtual memory used

[wheat wharf]

i restarted my pc

[tender mulch]

Nah, it's only using 1.6% of page file

[frozen owl]

ah ok

[tender mulch]

Physical memory is only 12 GB used

[frozen owl]

then Ikd

it makes 0 sense

i suggest reinstalling drivers

[wheat wharf]

i restarted and it went back to normal

well

not

normal

just the way it was

ima take another test

[frozen owl]

sure

[wheat wharf]

@frozen owl

[frozen owl]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_GxohsVYhfPV2rcLxy5N0KkfdflDs1pqT9v5JLHuc9M/edit?usp=sharing

idk

[wheat wharf]

?

[tender mulch]

What power supply is in this machine?

Yopur 12V rail is dipping as low as 11.5 V

[wheat wharf]

hmm it's a raidmax 835 watts scorpio bronze

[mighty imp]

looks good

1800cc

170w

[tender mulch]

You feeding the 2060 with 1 or 2 power cables?

Using Daisy chain?

[wheat wharf]

2 cables connected together

[tender mulch]

Uh, 2 individual cables or 1 cable using both ends?

[wheat wharf]

want me to send a pic?

[mighty imp]

u still experiencing low FPS?

[wheat wharf]

ye

[mighty imp]

huh

u sure

it's not forkknife update

[wheat wharf]

it's one cable with like 2 in the end

[mighty imp]

ur GPU looks completely fine

[wheat wharf]

LMFAO

[wheat wharf]

idk

might it be like from room temperature?

might that be the problem?

[mighty imp]

what fps are u getting

[tender mulch]

Should be 2 individual cables. IDK if that's the whole issue but it shouldn't be a single cable

12 volt rail is really low

[wheat wharf]

well i used to get 140 fps but now im getting 80 or 90

[mighty imp]

background apps?

[wheat wharf]

nope

[mighty imp]

setting change?

[wheat wharf]

background 30 seconds recording also off

nope

[mighty imp]

monitor upgrade?

[wheat wharf]

nop

e

[mighty imp]

what's ur setting

[wheat wharf]

on forkknife?

epic

[mighty imp]

1080P?

[wheat wharf]

ye

[mighty imp]

what's ur cpu again?

[wheat wharf]

my username

[mighty imp]

oh

[wheat wharf]

nickname*

[mighty imp]

lol

[wheat wharf]

lol

[tender mulch]

What ram did you say you have again?

[wheat wharf]

i have 16gb [ 2 x 8gb ] hyperX fury 3200 mhz memory

[mighty imp]

idk

[frozen owl]

reinstall windows

lol

nuclear option

[wheat wharf]

LMFAO

BRUH

[mighty imp]

ur temps, cc, mc, and power consumption are all ok

[wheat wharf]

idk then

[dreamy dragon]

Ethhan#1290 has been warned

Reason: Bad word usage

[wheat wharf]

im pretty sure 40 - 50 fps less isnt normal but eh

anyway thank u

[heady turtle]

Try use ddu

[tender mulch]

Nah, there's voltage dips and stutters. You can see it in the charts

[heady turtle]

Ohh

[tender mulch]

Separate the power cables and reinstall drivers too

using DDU

Frame buffer voltage getting down to 11.5 volts

[heady turtle]

Yikes

[frozen owl]

explains the yes

[wheat wharf]

hmm? well i dont trust myself

[frozen owl]

the power issues

[heady turtle]

To use ddu?

[wheat wharf]

im a 14 yr old boy

lol

[heady turtle]

Watch a tutorial on YouTube if you're worried it's not that hard

[wheat wharf]

huh no the cable thing

[mighty imp]

I mean ur CPU power consumption is quite low

util as well

but idk forkknife so

[heady turtle]

Ddu is for uninstalling gpu drivers

[wheat wharf]

do u think this might have something to do with the motherboard?

[wheat wharf]

ye ik

[heady turtle]

Nvm misunderstood

[tender mulch]

No, not the motherboard

[heady turtle]

It's even easier for the cables

[tender mulch]

Separate the power cables and reinstall the drivers

[wheat wharf]

icic

[mighty imp]

I really dont think the power cables matter but

oh well

[heady turtle]

It could

[wheat wharf]

should i just reinstall drivers from nvidia and see wat happens

from geforce experience

[tender mulch]

use DDU in safe mode

Then reinstall

[heady turtle]

Jayz two cents has a video on the 2 different power cables vs daisy chain, actually got a perf lift

[wheat wharf]

it's a daisy chain i think

wait no

idfk

[tender mulch]

Yes, it is

[heady turtle]

Yeah worth a shot using separate cables

[tender mulch]

One cable, two ends

use 2 separate cables and DDU lol

get to work

[heady turtle]

^

[wheat wharf]

ight ill try it but rn im gonna go have a snack

thanks for the help

[mighty imp]

still don't think that's the case but worth a try

[heady turtle]

It's a known problem, usually not with a 2060 but no harm in trying v easy to reverse and better practice to do anyway

[mighty imp]

yeah worth a try

[heady turtle]

Fyi here's the vid i was talking about https://youtu.be/UL7KIVI_hJg

[mighty imp]

Yeah I've seen the vid before

definitely interesting as you should be using separate power cables anyways

[frozen owl]

interesting

[heady turtle]

Now for a 2060 you'd think it wouldn't need but mb something happened to a wire ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[mighty imp]

yeah but the cc and power consumption looks ok

stable

[heady turtle]

They were getting voltage dips no?

[wheat wharf]

how much voltage should it be

[heady turtle]

Not sure tbh but did you try ddu and the cables?

[wheat wharf]

no not yet ill do it when im able to

[heady turtle]

Okay

[lone pond]

My friends coming in clutch he might sell me his 1050ti for around 125 to 150 he might go lower

[heady turtle]

Nice

[lone pond]

very cool, im about to drop my stimmy moneys and my tax returns on an entire system

to get a 3060

how good is the resale value of a 10400f based system without the gpu i wonder

[heady turtle]

You'd be better off selling your old pc probs

[acoustic ermine]

Any winners today?

[stiff ruin]

Do I buy a 1080 now for 400$ or wait

[hollow dawn]

omg no

dont

[late haven]

is it possible to solder on more vram on a gpu?

[spice prawn]

technically, yes.

for a regular consumer? no

[pastel halo]

6 mnths old

[spice prawn]

@pastel halo #rules number 9 specifically

[pastel halo]

oooooooops

nvm im jk

[late haven]

how much are you selling above msrp?

oop nvm

[pastel halo]

i can no longer talk about what was said but ijs i saw one today for $850 in Alabama

been doing some searching on apps like offer up youd be surprised

sry guy yall have a happy 420

i hate how rare it is to find a gpu online why make gamers suffer????

[sick turtle]

Greed

[hollow dawn]

I just found this morning a RTX 3070 for $1,599

[pastel halo]

yeah but there is like a 5% chance you can actually get one (prolly smaller) online at these sketchy places or maybe if you can prepay and wait 6 mnths these things are going for literally 3 to 4 times msrp

[hollow dawn]

And the guy got roasted in the comments

[pastel halo]

see.... 1599 bruh

[hollow dawn]

Yeah that x4 its rp or x3

[pastel halo]

900$ card going for twice its worth

[hollow dawn]

That is the highest one I’ve seen so far

[sick turtle]

yeah I hope so selling a 700$ CAD card at 1600$

[pastel halo]

LMAOOOOOOOOO

[hollow dawn]

He prob got it for $400

[pastel halo]

i got mine with a prebuilt upgraded ibuypower

lucky timing too

[hollow dawn]

Im still saving money to get a prebuilt

[pastel halo]

microcenter apparently gets them in eveynow any then but you have to go to an "in store location"

[hollow dawn]

With a decent card

[heady turtle]

Msrp of 3070 is 500 💀

[pastel halo]

alienware bro somethimes they have stock

for a 3070?

oof my bad

im far away lol looks like a 9

[frozen owl]

aight bought a 3080 for 6600$

nice deal

[pastel halo]

WTF!?

[hollow dawn]

Omg

[heady turtle]

Sure 3080 msrp is 700

[hollow dawn]

Amen

[vital sequoia]

Got a 3070 I just had to sell my kidney

[frozen owl]

ill buy that

[sick turtle]

Canada Computer in my area gets 5 cards every 2 weeks that's absolutely terrible.

[pastel halo]

prices change on websites

thats a standard dual fan

[sick turtle]

that's worth at least 500,000$

[pastel halo]

i got the msi ventus XS OC 2080SUPER

done gaming its becoming a hassle

[frozen owl]

im glad i made the purchase

evga xc3 black 3080

6600$

nice deal

[hollow dawn]

Did you really?

[frozen owl]

yeah

[regal jewel]

OOf

[frozen owl]

OH ITS FOR 6

btw

[lone pond]

Like yoh got 6x 3080 cards for $6600?

*you

Pci 20 yr old graphics card or built in graphics

[frozen owl]

yes

Mining

[covert forge]

That’s a steal

[lone pond]

I strongly dislike you

[hollow dawn]

Ah I see

[hollow dawn]

No it’s not

Thats a great deal

[covert forge]

Lol I was kidding

[frozen owl]

im kidding too

i would never spend 6600$ on gpu

even 1k too much

[hollow dawn]

[lone pond]

I'm sitting here just trying to get 1 card, hoping I get selected in the shuffle.

[tender mulch]

RTX3090

OH, they don't say which model exactly

:/

If I was a betting man, I'd say an Asus vairant

[frozen owl]

message asus support

twitter

maybe tuf

maybe strix

wait

@tender mulch what do you think

does it look like strix

[lone pond]

The strix cards are blinged out with RGB like that. I don't think the tuf cards are

[tender mulch]

Ye

[frozen owl]

lol

it aslso makes sense

Asus Rog Strix G35CZ-XB998

lol

how much is it

the pc

then

yeah

strix

[novel moon]

Amd vs intel.. best bang for your buck..high mid low tier
What would you choose?

[heady turtle]

Intel doesn't make graphics cards (yet) but intel is bang for buck atm for cpus

[novel moon]

Yeah.. my bad was for cpu. Wrong channel.

But.. intell is coming to gpu market soon

[heady turtle]

I5 10400 is like 150, b560 hdv 110, 2x8gb ram ballistix 3200cl16 80ish

[drowsy kiln]

Intel made a card back in the day

[heady turtle]

Get that ^

[heady turtle]

Yes they're planning to come out with one soon

[novel moon]

But it's mid to low tier stuff it seems

[heady turtle]

Yeah but that's where most of the demand is

[novel moon]

What do you think about nvidia new ...antimining (chip/setting/solider.. whatever) it's supposed to be more hardware based defense against the mining community.

[heady turtle]

Ehh tbh i think it's a bad idea, miners are a small part of the problem and a lot of people are mining to recoup the costs of the card(i and many others on this server are doing) and it just means that nvidias ewaste mining gpus are more likely to be bought

^

Main issue is just demand going

I mean miners are still a problem but if the mining limiter doesn't get broke again, it will just push the ewaste mining gpus which i would rather they buy gaming cards so at least when they go to sell the cards on eBay they can actually be bought by a gamer and not thrown in the dump because there's no video out

[idle slate]

do you think demand will go down when people start going back to office?

[heady turtle]

Possibly

But at the same time no

But I'd say a lot of ppl got into gaming too and will probs keep up the hobby

[idle slate]

less time to game with commute being back tho

[heady turtle]

This will also be a while anyway after this year anyway absolute min summer 2022 before demand gets back to okay

[idle slate]

yeah for sure

[heady turtle]

I've a feeling a lot of people will have the choice to work from home after covid tho

[idle slate]

i think itll go down slightly as wfh starts to end; a lot of companies are allowing full wfh now, but a lot are also planning sort of limited return

i know mine is optional but potential salary adjustment if you dont stay by the office

[heady turtle]

Their probs using it for mining, and i mean so what if they're only using it for fortnite apart from that, up to them

[hollow dawn]

Lmao

[heady turtle]

Crypto profits will also have to drop a good bit before cards stop selling out v quick i believe

[idle slate]

yeah thats true

id hope 3090 is less effected by crypto at least, since the roi is so much lower

[heady turtle]

Ik and i don't need a 3070 to play overwatch csgo, rainbow and bit of Minecraft but i wanted an upgrade from a r9 380

[heady turtle]

Not too much lower tbf, it does make more than a 3080 iirc

[idle slate]

a bit more for like double the cost + extra power? im not sure how undervolting makes it stack up

[heady turtle]

I mean yeah but at the same time it's their money, if they want to spend 2 grand on a pc for their child up to them

¯_(ツ)_/¯ some patents don't have big breins like ys i guess

[drowsy kiln]

Well some parents might not, but also some kids might just be big brain and tell their parents that they need a 2 grand setup

[fading ivy]

patent brein

[calm crow]

When I’m going to use my college funds to buy a gpu

[fading ivy]

Yes

[calm crow]

So anyways paid 4k for a 3090

and only a little bit of my soul died!

[fading ivy]

Nice

[idle slate]

you could have gotten an entire prebuilt with a 3090 and sold off the extra parts :x

for 4k

[calm crow]

I was joking

role playing people that actually pay 4k for a single gpu

[fading ivy]

good

[tight harbor]

Do you guys know if there’s anything coming soon

[idle slate]

wegg shuffle pretty often

[fading ivy]

every weekday i think

Hey guys I just used my dads credit card

[idle slate]

other than that, 🤷‍♂️ watch for drops at bb etc

[fading ivy]

and got a 3090 for 5k

Oh also I just spent $900 on the core i9

Oh and also bought 4x16 gigs of ram

and the most expensive motherboard i could find

[idle slate]

extreme glacial?

[fading ivy]

and the most powerful psu i could find

and the biggest and most expensive case

and 16 fans with excessive rgb

[livid idol]

This reminds me, I wanted to ask for people's best "waste of money" builds with the most expensive, but still somehow awful, parts. And, go.

[tight harbor]

Sexy

I accidentally bought a 3800x

I was buying a 3700x and clicked the wrong item on Amazon and didn’t realize untill it came

[livid idol]

Oops

Hope you didn't pay too much extra

[calm crow]

DUDE SUCK A STEAL

[calm crow]

I wanna see what people can come up with too

[fading ivy]

I like to suck steal

[calm crow]

Understandable

[steel mountain]

where could i get graphics card for a asus rog strix g531 laptop?

[coral yew]

Could I use resizable BAR on a 2080 super?

[tender mulch]

No

[coral yew]

Alright

[tender mulch]

You can't upgrade those.........

[steel mountain]

O.O

[tender mulch]

Laptop parts are hard soldered in and non-changeable

[steel mountain]

i cant

i watched a video and it said some laptops allow it and some are solidly placed

[tender mulch]

The last laptop I know of to have a changeable GPU was the GTX900 series years ago

[steel mountain]

oof

[tender mulch]

As stated, you cannot upgrade the CPU nor GPU in your G531 laptop. They are hard soldered. Contact ASUS if you want to be sure.

[lavish otter]

You usually can upgrade the ram and storage though, so...that is something

[fair nexus]

hows the gpu market rn ?

[tender mulch]

Verified garbage

[livid idol]

There's a few 20 series mxm cards

[toxic sinew]

What market?

[tender mulch]

Here and there but not for their laptop

[livid idol]

I've seen ram soldered into a laptop before, but at least it had one free slot so you could max it out at 12GB

[charred remnant]

I would recommend checking crucial's website with the laptop model since some laptops are only soldered some are soldered with one slot\

And I find their site is just a fast way to check

[livid idol]

Yeah the crucial memory finder tool is nice if they have your model listed

[lavish otter]

Yeah, soldered ram is garbage. I tend to luck out with laptop choice, as I've never had one with soldered ram. Didn't bother upgrading until my current one, but the option is always nice

[hushed shore]

Graphics cards are so old

[lavish otter]

Okay

[ruby bloom]

okay

[steel mountain]

ok

[spare relic]

Okay

[fossil talon]

And current Alienware laptops

[lavish otter]

Oh yeah, that is right. They put out that desktop-laptop hybrid thingy with a desktop CPU and some weird Dell specific graphics card. Did Dell ever start start selling the GPU upgrades at reasonable prices? I think they were something like $900 each last I checked, which was like two years ago

...Or was it $900 and up? I dunno

[brisk swan]

Zotac 3070 white edition OC, good card?

[fossil talon]

Honestly not sure. They probably priced up anyways

[cosmic bluff]

Would it be possible for me to take a laptop gpu and use a mxm to pcie 16x card to place into my desktop?

[blissful roost]

What's the optimal path for a Evga Gtx 1660 user ? (Like Gtx 1660 then 3070 or Gtx 1660 then 4000 series )

The 3000 series are on a shortage, and i've been thinkin, why not wait for the 4000 series

[halcyon plover]

Dont rush if you can find a 3070 on msrp price tho 500-600$ i think it is worth it if you need the upgrade

[blissful roost]

It's a sweet upgrade path, I last visited SF and found a computer shop selling a few 3070s but couldn't because of price

It was twice its amount, if i recall $630

[summer condor]

anyone know an ez pz way of getting rid of the annoying sight of my gpu debug lights

[dark spoke]

got picked for the newegg shuffle today 3070 msi tri while i was asleep. Wake up at 415pst to find out i missed the deadline to buy

[halcyon plover]

[heady turtle]

Big f

[lone pond]

RIP

[karmic crag]

ah that stinks

[hot folio]

What are gpu debug lights? I only have a combination of a letter and a number or 2 letters

[heady turtle]

Like a gpu debug light on your mobo?

[hollow dawn]

Bro I got today a Asus Phoenix 1030 3gb for $75 the guy was selling it cuz he couldn’t get it to run

He was connecting the hdmi to the motherboard

[halcyon plover]

[heady turtle]

Oof

[hollow dawn]

He just got into gaming 2 months ago

Poor guy I kind a feel bad

[heady turtle]

Yeah it's a bit confusing if you don't know about pcs tbf

[tender mulch]

Which ones?

[vital pivot]

My buddy ordered a cyber power pc with a 3090 in it. The listing only said nVidia 3090

This is the one they provided

[dawn plover]

blower card 😳

[vital pivot]

Below is his now retired gtx260

[dawn plover]

oh lmaoaoa

i thought the 3090 was the blower

[night vault]

LOL

[dawn plover]

they sent over the chonk aorus card 😳

[vital pivot]

__

[night vault]

Quick question for anyone that’s been patrolling the used market

I have a few month old 5700xt THICC II and was wondering what the used price would be on this guy

[vital pivot]

eBay has your answer

[night vault]

I tried that but the prices change like every day, it’s just a quick inquiry

[drowsy kiln]

Generally 5700-XTs go for $1000-1200 (Max). A good few go for $900 here and there tho. But $1000 is a good average.

[heady turtle]

Use the sold filter and see what's selling

[night vault]

Thank you

[night vault]

I will I never really have used eBay

[vital pivot]

Don’t forget they hit you with a 10%fee

Try Facebook marketplace

[drowsy kiln]

Mhm. Use OfferUp/FB Marketplace and use PayPal Goods & Services

Or just meet locally

[dawn plover]

yee, meeting locally is something nice

you can bring equipment to test the thing you're buying if the seller allows it

[heady turtle]

Really my fee was like 5% or something?

[vital pivot]

In the us it’s 10%

[drowsy kiln]

Whatever it is. I'd rather meet locally no fee

[vital pivot]

And no tax bs

[heady turtle]

Ohh in Ireland it's like 3.5% ish then because my fee was €6.44 out of €179

[charred remnant]

There's also like Craigslist in the US which since it's in person meet ups is free but just be careful safety wise, be sure to meet in a public area and make sure people know where you're going

[drowsy kiln]

Craigslist isn't used anymore

OfferUp and FB Marketplace replaced it

[vital pivot]

Yeah

[charred remnant]

I mean I still sell stuff on it personally but I haven't had to sell computer parts on it

[dawn plover]

yee, police stations is where most people wanna meet

[charred remnant]

Yea or I've done a handful in grocery store parking lots, it usually depends on what the other person is comfortable with and how expensive the sale is

[drowsy kiln]

I've never done police stations personally just a supermarket parking lot on a busy sunday/saturday afternoon works great.

[vital pivot]

My wife is a LEO I’m covered

🙂

[steel wolf]

did anyone get a evga xc3 ultra hybrid 3080

[hasty drift]

Better question. How did u even get one

[steel wolf]

patience

[hasty drift]

Cause my preorder is still 6th in lind

[steel wolf]

i had my hands on 3

[dawn plover]

hey lol

[hasty drift]

How

[steel wolf]

hey hey lol

[steel wolf]

patience and luck

[hasty drift]

Ive preorderd one. And been on same position for 4 months

[steel wolf]

i didnt even look at the list

and i got an email for the hybrid

and i had my gigabyte aorus since release

[hasty drift]

My 1060 3gb wil have to battle with me for the rest of the year presumably

So rip my friend. Whod get it after i got the 3080. Hes at a 750ti..

[steel wolf]

keep trying youll get it

i started with a 1080ti and 2070 super

my very first card was a 1050ti

[spare relic]

Good cards

[charred remnant]

Just keep at it, I started the year with a GTX 650 and now I have a 3070 sitting in the closet for when I finish exams and build my pc

[spare relic]

Before my 970 I've never had anything faster than a GT 730

[steel wolf]

i got my 3080 that all ima say

ppl say i show off when i say my story

[acoustic ginkgo]

I have a 3060

[steel wolf]

nice

[rose spruce]

970 , but it's hitting it's limits. 0-44 for shuffles, bestbuy has burned me with the but within 250 miles thing multiple times, been in the EVGA were for what feels like an eternity.

[steel wolf]

i retired looking for cards

im just helping my buddies

[golden vessel]

whats your story tho

[steel wolf]

i stg if i get banned

[golden vessel]

nono

priv txt me

i dont wanrt u to get banned

[static zinc]

day 216 in evga queue...still no email lol

[charred remnant]

I honestly feel like they stopped going through the queue since they promised to maintain pre tariff price for queue users til late April

[static zinc]

yeah its pretty sad, i ended up getting a 3080 for real cheap through bestbuy since i gave up hope with evga queue

[charred remnant]

Yea that's fair, I kinda just stuck with Shuffle since I knew I probably wouldn't be fast enough for other sites and it worked out for me at least.

[faint kindle]

rip

[winged pendant]

Thank god we voted in Donald Trump so he could place restricting sanctions on our chip manufactures. Ultimately only to shoot out own American automotive industry in the foot.

[fossil talon]

Rule #5

[spare relic]

But also rules

[winged pendant]

Cancel culture at its finest.

[woeful perch]

could I 3d print a backplate for a 1060?

[spare relic]

Sure I guess

[fossil talon]

Not even cancel culture lol, it's literally a rule to prevent unwanted dispute

[fossil talon]

Yep. Although it may affect heat dissipation

[woeful perch]

the card doesn't have any vram on the back

[charred remnant]

Yea I would think a plastic backplate could end up insulating the card making it hotter

[livid idol]

What's with the $800 motherboard bundled with the 3090 in shuffle? Are they really so desperate to sell it?

[charred remnant]

Or they just know desperate people will buy it anyways? Idk I would've expected at that price that it had a monoblock though

[livid idol]

Right? It looks like a $400 board maybe, nowhere near the features you'd expect on a $800 board

[charred remnant]

Their board with a monoblock is $1,200 I honestly feel like Gigabyte is just mad with power and realized they can make all their products overpriced and just bundle them with gpu's and it won't matter

[void star]

is this a good deal?

i bought a dark hero mobo for $500 us

[livid idol]

Which dark hero exactly? There's like 4 and they range from $400 to $700

[broken lynx]

The mobo in the combo goes for $400 is on eBay atm since it's z490

[livid idol]

Assuming you mean the crosshair VIII X570, no, you overpaid

[vocal anvil]

What’s the difference between the dark hero mobo compared to say, the msi mpg gaming pro carbon wifi mobo?

[charred remnant]

It can vary, which chipset are you looking at?

[winged pendant]

Make sure you get upset about it bro! Lmao!

“Gee guys let’s break out the rule book here” - nerdy slur voice

[spare relic]

Ok

[livid idol]

This is not intended to be a forum for politics though. Feel free to take politics into DMs, but people can and are banned for it, no matter what side they're on.

[spare relic]

Convenient you have clown in your name

Alright I'll get really mad

Later today though I promise

[winged pendant]

You’ll get mad later today? Cool, let me know bud.

[hollow dawn]

Are the Radeon 550 2gb from china any good?

Bro they don’t even need a pci lol

[spare relic]

Good for a basic display adapter sure

That is if they're actually an RX 550

[livid idol]

They're not usually

[hollow dawn]

They are not for sure

I’ll give it a try someday

[charred remnant]

I'd imagine you'd get similar results to buying from Wish

But hey just make it into a youtube video and title it something like "Solution to graphics card shortage?!?!"

[spare relic]

GTS 450 :)

[hybrid kettle]

One is definitely more feature heavy than the other

[vocal anvil]

How so?

[hybrid kettle]

Mostly asus software is much better than msi software

I thought you were talking about a different msi mobo at first

[woeful perch]

wab if I put some vents on it?

[light pagoda]

trial and error post results

[brisk swan]

Any one in uk

Want gpu

Be fast

[light pagoda]

is uk in texas

[hybrid kettle]

Oh, it looks like the io of the dark hero is better, the dark hero has more water cooling sensor headers and the hero looks better in my opinion. Also asus bios and software are usually better than msi, asus has better rgb support

[hybrid kettle]

Rule 9?

[woeful perch]

ye

what gpu?

[vocal anvil]

I'm interested in a new mobo, from what I can tell the asus dark hero series is really good. How would I distinguish which one's the best?

[hybrid kettle]

What cpu do you have

Most people don’t need a dark hero

[vocal anvil]

Currently ryzen 5 3600, but wanting to get a ryzen 7 5800x or ryzen 5 5600x

[hybrid kettle]

As far as I can tell, the only basic features that distinguish it from a basis asus mobo is better water cooling support and better looking

[vocal anvil]

Say i were to have a 3080 gpu

What would work best mobo and cpu-wise

[hybrid kettle]

If you need the cpu power, 5900x, otherwise you could probably go 11600k/5800x

And a midrange b550 with the io you want and a bios flashback would work fine

Or regular z590 for intel

[livid idol]

No giveaways of any kind either, #rules number 9

[brisk swan]

Hmm. Ok

[heady turtle]

Tbh there wouldn't be much point going from a 6 core cpu to a 6 core cpu after just 1 gen, ie don't bother going from 3600 to 5600x

Go at least 5800x

[lone pond]

A Nvidia GeForce gt 220 (8166mb) or amd ryzen 3 3200g Radeon vega grapphics? Which would be better anyone know?

[dawn plover]

vega tbh

[lone pond]

Thank you

[static zinc]

The GT 220 is 12 years old, are you sure thats the one you mean

[green harness]

Just look at it as a daily ritual

Gotta pick up that L for the day

Someday

But probably not today 😆 😢

[rose spruce]

Well, no email. Cashing in my L. 0-45

[livid idol]

Some people get them closer to 4:00, I'm not holding my breath though

[rose spruce]

I'm fairly certain I'll go 0-100 without seeing anything. I'm so convinced that I made myself a promise that if I win a shuffle I'm donating to my local food bank in the amount of my purchase. Rather feed the hungry than feed the scalpers.

[livid idol]

Next chance I get I'm looking all over within a 30 mile range at the local shops

[rose spruce]

Only shop that sells near me is microcenter and it's a 3 hour drive with toll roads. If I go that route I'll take vacation and camp a 3080ti when they drop. Likely my best chance unless I skip this gen. I have a gtx 970.

[livid idol]

At least what you have should do 1080p fairly well for now

Nearest MC to me is 9 hours not counting traffic 😫

And it's in LA so there's always traffic

[rose spruce]

Yeah that's not a fun situation to be in.

[silent ibex]

my email doesn't come till like a 11:00 each day....

i have had wins at 15 minutes after and 2 hours after, so i am not sure why my denial emails come so late

my guess is that as long as one of my selected items isn't sold out, they don't send the email

[rose spruce]

I once got an email at 1:30am...

Still no email, do going with my early proclamation of 0-45.

[silent ibex]

i decided I want to up my comp to a 3080, but you take what you can get in this market...

[pliant birch]

Hello would the xfx merc 6700xt fit in the nzxt h510?

[brisk flame]

thats a question for google

i would guess, probably?

[livid idol]

Yes

GPU is 323mm and case allows 381mm

[heady turtle]

Yes

[livid idol]

It's gonna get toasty in that case though unless you remove the front panel

[heady turtle]

^h510 be a sauna

[pliant birch]

Thank you guys

[polar vault]

is there a difference in gt 750m and gtx 750m?

[livid idol]

Pretty sure the GTX is desktop and the GT is laptop

[brisk flame]

gt is dead nomenclature

well, technically GT 1030 are still being sold i guess

[spare relic]

GT 1010 is the newest GT SKU

[brisk flame]

other than that, all GT things are way old

yeah 1010 as well

[lavish otter]

So what you are saying is...that we need a RT 3030

What would a hypothetical RT 3030 even look like 🤔

[spare relic]

720p card capable of ray tracing

What they would put into the Switch Pro

[livid idol]

I was referring to this specific example, the GT 750M was a notebook card and there wasn't a GTX 750M, only the 750, the desktop card

[lavish otter]

8 whole gigs of LPDDR4

For an extra $250

[spare relic]

Monie

[brisk flame]

it would prolly be GT 2630

cuz 10xx, 16xx/20xx, 26xx?/30xx

but nvidia stupid so who knows lmao

[vital pivot]

Yeah nVidia is so stupid they are laughing their way down to the bank

[lavish otter]

Just because Nvidia is stupid doesn't mean they don't make products that earn them a lot of money, it just means they make a lot of stupid decisions, whether it be from our perspective or theirs. Like those mining cards, they are a waste of silicon, guaranteed e-waste and a great idea from their perspective, but an absolutely terrible one for consumers (and the environment)

[celest wave]

idk the mining cards look like they just slapped some memory on a meh binned product

aint the 30hx just a 1660 super basically?

[tender mulch]

Mining doesn't need the GPu core anyway, it needs lots of fast VRAM

[celest wave]

i don't think they had to put much thought into it tbh

[tender mulch]

Anyone who mines always underclocks GPU core by about 500 MHZ and overclocks the VRAM

and lowers power limit a lot'

[celest wave]

40hx looks in line with a 2060 super

50hx looks pretty similar hashwise to 2080S

[daring mountain]

anyone able to get over 97mhs on the galax 3080s with ETH miner

[celest wave]

i wish i had a 3080 to test

i dislike miners but i can't blame them for wanting the 3080 if each one nets $10 a day

[daring mountain]

yeah i had to use a bot to get founders cards then they patched it so im stucking buying galax cards from china and yeah i got 3 3070s founders 1 3080 founders 2 dell 3080s and 1 galax 3080

[celest wave]

aint fe hashrate a bit gimped due to temps?

or you repad?

[daring mountain]

eth mining period ends in 2023 so i mean we will be gone by then card supply will go back to normal and with after market heat pads its all g plus i dont use the cards for gaming so id just re soder the memory junctions back on XD but yeah the mem juntions hit just under 110 hovers around 100-107

galax card is the best only 89-92 on mem junction but i havent been able to get the mem past 13ghz but ive seen tons of people get the galax cards to 13ghz+ mem

[celest wave]

surprised at the galax

heard evga ftw3 ultras hit like maybe mid 80s

so thats just good stuff from them

[light pagoda]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/133652752088?chn=ps&mkevt=1&mkcid=28

seem legit

https://cntronic.com/gtx1050ti-4g-ddr5-128bit-computer-game-graphics-card-geforce-4gb-ddr5-128bit-hdmi-directx-12-graphics-card-55317

or this

[livid idol]

Ah, the famous "no brand logo on the fan" cards. Best in class right there.

[light pagoda]

my nephew sent me these

looksz to bo going for around 110 on ebay

will they work?

[livid idol]

Yes but they're usually really crappy, hacked cards, like GT 550 bad
Integrated graphics beats them kind of bad

[tender mulch]

Both scammy garbage TBH

[light pagoda]

hmm ok

[spare relic]

If they were like 5 bucks

[livid idol]

In China they get away with these things because their laws allow for "imitation" products

[light pagoda]

he has an hp 800 elite desk hes trying to game on but he dosent know what he wants some dell gpu's hes been looking at also

[noble shore]

quick question, how much does the average graphics card go for

[coarse spindle]

@light pagoda I am guessing he bought it off of the same Ebay link as i did as it was a very good deal

Also looking for a GPU for it. AVOID the listings you sent. Obviously scams.

[spring mural]

bingo ^^^

[coarse spindle]

Unfortunately the PSU is only good enough for -50 class cards. You could cheap out and buy a 950 on aliexpress like me or could open your wallet a bit and cough up the exorbitant prices on the real brand-name 1050s

[spare relic]

For computers

[late haven]

my motherboard supports crossfire but i dont think it can fit a 2nd gpu because the cables are in the way

i have a b360m mortar

[heady turtle]

2 gpus is pretty much useless for gaming, most of the time you perform worse

[late haven]

i have an rx 570

its pretty old

i saw benchmarks saying it nearly doubled the fps

its only worse for newer cards

[heady turtle]

No in most games it is worse even with older gpus and the 570 isn't that old also gl getting another one for a decent price

[late haven]

well that was helpful...

[late haven]

should i upgrade to the 1650S or the rx590

[drowsy kiln]

Both would provide similar performance upgrade should be about ~30%, doesn't overly matter which one you go for personally I'd go GTX 1650S (Super) due to the dedicated Nvenc encoders if you ever wanted to stream or anything that would be much better then using hardware x264.

But right now it really depends what price you can get it for.

[late haven]

nice

[heady turtle]

Only if it's a decent price

[slender breach]

I need a good graphics card for my PC after getting the RX550 series graphics card and I don’t know where to look or what to get
CPU:Intel Core I3-9100F
Motherboard:ASRock B365M Pro4 Micro ATX

Can someone help me?

[heady turtle]

Look on eBay depends on your budget for new gpu tho

[slender breach]

Okay

[raven thunder]

just dont cave into overpriced ones

try to get something at a reasonable price

and look for signs of scams

[heady turtle]

A good deal atm would be a used one a gen or 2 old at msrp when it came out pretty much btw

[slender breach]

Okay

[rose spruce]

In today's market, if you had a gtx 970 would you buy a 3060 12gb TUF OC for 480 or hold out for something else. 1080p 144hz , but wanting to move to 1440p 144hz if possible but not a deal breaker.

[tender mulch]

1440p you're gonna want 3060TI or 3070

[fading ivy]

do you think i'll ever be able to get a 3060/3060ti

[tender mulch]

I got one

SO it's possible

[fading ivy]

where'd you get it

How fast did you buy it lol

[tender mulch]

Best Buy Jan 5th

[fading ivy]

i gotta get onee

[heady turtle]

It's doable but you gotta watch stuff like a hawk lol

[fading ivy]

i have been lol

[knotty vortex]

Where GPU

[toxic sinew]

Nowhere

[heady turtle]

^ you can try newegg shuffle tho

But emphasis on try

[drowsy kiln]

Well. OfferUp, eBay, Facebook Marketplace and ofc shuffle

[heady turtle]

You to get a profile picture of not under some girls skirt :)

Mhm

Number 2

Shipping to Ireland 😅💰💰💰

[drowsy kiln]

Not true sadly

[heady turtle]

^

It's a demand issue

Also please change your pfp to something pg13

[dawn plover]

lmao

[drowsy kiln]

Mhm. Demand, silicone shortage, mining, and pandemic all contributed to some extent

[tender mulch]

You need to chnage both your PFP asnd your profile description. Thanks.

▶️ 2. We welcome members of all ages, so try to keep discussions at a PG-13 level and avoid swearing. If your username, status, or profile pic is NSFW, it may be changed or you may be kicked/banned.

[knotty vortex]

Well, I work from home so I might as well sign up for every Best buy notification and just hope for the best

Do I just save the items in the Best buy app?

[tender mulch]

By the time you get a notification it's a bit late

DOn't rely on them

[knotty vortex]

What would you say is the best way to keep informed?

[heady turtle]

Find out the drop times ahead/stock checker bots

[drowsy kiln]

Reload every 10 seconds

[faint kindle]

Basically

I saw that someone successfully got ps5 and 3080 with HotStock though

But I think you have to pay for account on it

[livid idol]

Every day I'm shufflin'
Not much good stuff today though, I was hoping for a 3080...

[rose spruce]

I'm shuffling... To 0-46 ah yeah. My same promise to myself applies. Equal donation to local food bank if I win a card or bundle. Don't feed scalpers, feed the community.

[livid idol]

I'm working on 0-36 (but I did win a CPU no one else wanted lol)

Yeah a 3060 ti is technically better for me too, since I'm on a 2070 and that's about a 2080 level of performance. I'd like to have a bigger jump than that though, so I can fully utilize my beast of a CPU and new monitor.

AMD is meh, more expensive for less features

Knowing that I can easily resell the GPU that's probably what I'd do too

[rose spruce]

GTX 970 to anything listed today is massive gains, but if prefer a 3070 of those listed.

[tender mulch]

3060TI is only about ~10% less performance than a 3070 and should also be considered depending on the price point

[livid idol]

If I got an AMD card I'd have to start mining to make it worth it. More, faster memory.

Less power draw too

[steady solstice]

im trying to get a rx 580 😦

[livid idol]

Good luck on that one, still a pretty highly sought after card

[steady solstice]

yeah i already got burned on ebay lol

[fallen tulip]

Another day at the Newegg shuffle

[vital pivot]

So I saw a post about the supposed 3080ti pricing.

Not good

[livid idol]

What, the $1000 msrp? That's about right tbh, right between 3080 and 3090

And of course AIB partner cards will be more, they always are, plus tariffs, I'd expect them to go for $1400 at retailers easy

[fallen tulip]

Is the 3070 the most popular card?

[livid idol]

Not as much as Gigabyte

[fallen tulip]

One day I’ll pair the 3070 with the 5600x

[livid idol]

Asus has been a beacon of hope for getting something at a reasonable price, they seem to be more consumer focused than the others

[fallen tulip]

So I should be getting an asus 3070?

[livid idol]

You should be getting whatever you can afford and get your hands on tbh, we can't be picky right now

At least there's no critical issues with any cards that can't be fixed easily enough that I'm aware of

[heady turtle]

My gigabyte 3070 was €720 ntb

[livid idol]

Was that including the cost of the useless bomb/inflated motherboard price?

They've been forcing people to bundle their products in the US

[heady turtle]

Just gpu, no shuffle

[heady turtle]

I heard from hardware unboxed, sad

[livid idol]

There was one a couple days ago that was a $800 mobo that had the features of a $300 mobo, didn't even have a monoblock

[dawn plover]

was it some z490 aorus board?

[livid idol]

I forget exactly which it was

But I believe it was Z590

[fallen tulip]

Do you guys think about nvidia adding mining limiters will stop miners from buying the cards

[tender mulch]

Depends on if they release the mining version driver on accident or not like they did with the 3060

"accident"

[livid idol]

If you're referring to the hx mining cards that don't have display out, there's historically been workarounds for that too

[heady turtle]

It's not gonna stop the " shortages" anyway

[livid idol]

Yeah miners are a very small part of the problem

[green harness]

Why the scare quotes?

[livid idol]

It's not a true shortage is what I think he's getting at

[heady turtle]

Yeah

[karmic crag]

do you think the shortage is artificial?

[livid idol]

It's just an unprecedented level of demand

[green harness]

Well supply < demand

So shortage

[karmic crag]

HUGE demand issue

[heady turtle]

No demand is Greater than supply and they running at 100%

[livid idol]

There's more supply than ever before, it's just demand is higher still

[karmic crag]

ah

i see

[heady turtle]

The quotes were because not real shortage just not enough for demand basically

[green harness]

That's still a real shortage

[heady turtle]

No because they are operating at 100%

[green harness]

Really it seems to me that the only difference that makes is that a shortage caused by really high demand is less likely to be resolved quickly because it's not simply a problem of ramping production or sourcing materials

[heady turtle]

More gpus then ever being made

[green harness]

So?

[livid idol]

Technically it is, you're right there, but shortage implies that there could be more supply

[green harness]

The raw number made is irrelevant what matters is the shortfall between supply and demand

[heady turtle]

^

Yes it is shortage but ppl misunderstand shortage as just make more

[green harness]

Shortage just means there isn't enough, which is 100% the case

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shortage

[heady turtle]

Yes but as fal said it implies just make more of them lul

[green harness]

I mean if they could they would. The reason a shortage persists in any case is they can't or won't produce mote

[heady turtle]

Technically yes shortage just it's to stop ppl misunderstanding

[heady turtle]

Well also the amount of miners is mis proportioned in the media so a lot of ppl think the mining limiter will fix

[green harness]

Yeah for sure

[livid idol]

Production is normal right now, it's distribution that's the problem. The silicon fabs are running at 100% capacity.

Even with the drought in Taiwan, TSMC bought enough water to keep running for months.

[karmic crag]

maybe not 100%, but i agree

covid pandemic has hit production lines hard, a lot of factories are operating at reduced capacity

[livid idol]

They make more than GPU chips at the fabs, they're running 100% but not 100% of the time is dedicated to what we as gamers need.

[karmic crag]

this'll probably make supply slightly better, like jan 2021 better

yep

i think the pandemic should lighten up by july, when we reach a higher % of vaccinations

then i can get my grimy hands on a 3060ti/70

[livid idol]

That much is true, but it affects the distribution more than the fabricators at this point

[heady turtle]

it is 100%, they shipped record numbers last quarter

[livid idol]

Yeah I saw early studies saying it was effective for roughly 9+ months

Covid is going to be something we just have to deal with forever, like the Flu. Once we get more herd immunity in place the infection rate will slow at least.

[heady turtle]

unfortunately ^ :(

[livid idol]

Too many articles have used it as a buzz word with no explanation