tech-industry-news

[sleek phoenix]

So recently there was a perf leak for a 5060 laptop

It gave me caution as it was a huge jump over a 4060m

But

When nvidia unveiled their new optimus tech I finally understood why

Efficiency went through the roof at lower tdp

[compact egret]

Makes me jealous since I have a 3070m

[sleek phoenix]

I genuinely thought 50 series was gonna be this massive performance jump from this one benchmark

But turns out it's just optimus

[compact egret]

It'd be less prone to power throttling on lower end models too right?

[sleek phoenix]

Well, yesn't

It depends what they use for tdp

[compact egret]

hmm

[sleek phoenix]

It's still the same power

[compact egret]

I wonder how the lower tdp models would perform

[sleek phoenix]

Better

You get more fps for less power

[compact egret]

Damn

[sleek phoenix]

But if the oems leave the tdp alone

Then you get more perf

Same power

But the thermals basically don't really change

Since it's ada refresh

[compact egret]

Maybe there's a day we can run an entire gaming laptop off 100w usb pd

[sleek phoenix]

It's like the supermarket selling you a "value pack" for the same price as the normal one

Still the same thing, same price, same taste(?)

But more bang for your buck

So 50 series laptops look genuinely good to me

But with everything, grain of salt

[sleek phoenix]

If the tdp is low enough sure

[compact egret]

Maybe the 6050 will be efficient enough

[sleek phoenix]

One thing I'm curious about is the bus width

I'd bet it's changed

Cos the low end cards suffer from bandwidth bottlenecks

Esp. the mobile ones

[compact egret]

6500XT moment?

[sleek phoenix]

Eh not really

Kinda but not really

Cos they're performing

Or look to be

So that likely means the bus widths are increased

[compact egret]

They would have GDDR7 right?

[sleek phoenix]

Yes

Ah

Wait maybe not

Not sure yet

There's speculation it's gddr6x

[compact egret]

I wonder if you could run AI on a laptop

With a 5080

[sleek phoenix]

You can, just not at any amazing speed that you'd expect in a desktop

Most 40 series cards were heavily wrecked for a.i

[compact egret]

If the AI performance is really what nvidia hyped it up to be

[sleek phoenix]

And 50 series could be better, but still worse than desktop because of tdp and bus

[compact egret]

Maybe it'd perform decently

But I think they would scale back the AI stuff

[sleek phoenix]

Mfg is an active demonstration of the increase

[compact egret]

For better general performance on mobile

[sleek phoenix]

[compact egret]

Maybe if they come down in price they'd be decent

[cyan hamlet]

Gee it's almost like the CPUs weren't ready for the market when they launched them

Maybe they'll get the re-review treatment like the B580 did

[sleek phoenix]

Inb4 their cpus also somehow have a cpu overhead issue

[spice cedar]

they took this personally https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/amd-says-intels-horrible-product-is-causing-ryzen-9-9800x3d-shortages

[shut osprey]

It's intel's fault

[sleek phoenix]

PSA: The used gpu scams are back with pcbs having no core

Gonna share this in a few channels

[sleek phoenix]

https://videocardz.com/newz/alleged-amd-radeon-rx-9070-xt-performance-in-cyberpunk-2077-and-black-myth-wukong-leaked

[spice cedar]

jesus just what is amd waiting for, are they waiting for 50 series to be tested hands on by reviewers or smth

[sleek phoenix]

💀

Reddit doing proper cleanup is nice

So guess there isn't anything tomorrow, it's just bad translation

[sleek phoenix]

@jade pagoda called it
https://wccftech.com/nvidia-confirms-rtx-50-gaming-gpus-native-non-dlss-rt-uplifts-rtx-5090-5080-15-faster-than-4090-4080-5070-ti-5070-20-faster-than-4070-ti-4070/

I was really close, I said up to 15-ish for skus under 5090

That's because of the tdp bump primarily btw

If you vbios mod a 40 series card to the same tdp you'll get almost the same performance

[jade pagoda]

FIFTEEN

FIFTEEN

[sleek phoenix]

Yep

[jade pagoda]

[sleek phoenix]

And the 5090 was lower than anticipated but still within what most calculated

27-45%

Actual is 30%

For 25% more money "at launch*

Vs 4090

That "generational uplift" is mostly in ai and tdp gains

[jade pagoda]

I saw this

Many people did

[sleek phoenix]

It had already been superimposed/derived but now we have official confirmation

And I believe that number based on specs

That is completely believable

[jade pagoda]

Damn

https://tenor.com/view/monica-raymund-gabriela-dawson-eye-roll-ugh-sigh-gif-13901961

[sleek phoenix]

Shame lmao

So a 9070XT will be somewhere in the range of a 5070TI

Question is

what's the price

And what's FSR 4 do

[jade pagoda]

Cheaper

[jade pagoda]

Dlss quality but AMD

[manic horizon]

wait

@sleek phoenix so in theory a 600 watt OC 4090 can outperform a standard 5090 when not using MFG on the 5090?

Galax IIRC had a proper 600 watt card

[jade pagoda]

Hmmm

[sleek phoenix]

Why didn't they talk about the codec improvements???

Wtf

[sleek phoenix]

No

[jade pagoda]

A feature I do not care about

[manic horizon]

"Never, ever buy a promise."

[sleek phoenix]

If a 4090 gets a tdp increase then odds are it won't do much as it's mostly not power limited

[jade pagoda]

You’re right

[sleek phoenix]

The others however can increase

Aib models will be closer to reference

[manic horizon]

is RTX Fur gonna be like HairWorks?

Anyone remembers HairWorks?

Pepperidge Farm remembers

[sleek phoenix]

And even then it's not even a guarantee cos 40 series is so voltage dependent

The actual question is how much more voltage are they allowing on the 50 cards

[manic horizon]

if you ask me

[jade pagoda]

Hhhhhmmmmmmm

[manic horizon]

My answer would be "Yes!"

[sleek phoenix]

They can't

[manic horizon]

why else would they need LM on the 5090 to get to tolerable sizes?

[sleek phoenix]

Ada degrades very fast over 1.15v

[jade pagoda]

A bit more

[manic horizon]

good PTM can do pretty much the same and not blow the card up with seepage

[sleek phoenix]

They're both on N4 but BW is a refresh

[manic horizon]

OMG

[sleek phoenix]

Even if you cool it it can degrade

So question is how much did they improve voltage

[manic horizon]

imagine if they push 1.3v and we end up with a 13th gen situation lmao

[sleek phoenix]

They won't

[jade pagoda]

How much more is a 4090 from a 4080?

[sleek phoenix]

It will if at all barely go above 1.1v

[manic horizon]

it'd be so freaking funny

[manic horizon]

iirc like 15%?

[sleek phoenix]

Wym

[manic horizon]

maybe 20

[cyan hamlet]

I remember it crashing Arkham games constantly

[jade pagoda]

Breh

[manic horizon]

Now it's back, but RTX

[sleek phoenix]

You could be talking about anything

Wym more

What's more lol

[jade pagoda]

You know what i care about

Raw performance

[sleek phoenix]

Performance?

25%

[jade pagoda]

Raster

[manic horizon]

huh

[sleek phoenix]

40 series was priced per dollar spent

4070ti is roughly half a 4090

[jade pagoda]

Are you sure?

[sleek phoenix]

Yes

[jade pagoda]

Tsk

[sleek phoenix]

If you're looking from a 4080 to 4090

33%

If you're looking 4090 to 4080

25%

Oops

Math'd wrong

[jade pagoda]

Logic.ex

Dead

[sleek phoenix]

But I'm actually serious

You spend $800 you get about half a 4090

You spend 1200, 3/4 a 4090

[jade pagoda]

Ight m8

[manic horizon]

the 4080 and the 4080s are the same for sake of performance right?

[sleek phoenix]

It legitimately worked that way at release

[sleek phoenix]

Essentially yes

[cyan hamlet]

2% difference, often margin of error

[manic horizon]

cuz the 4080 is now available for 370k HUF

[sleek phoenix]

And if you vbios mod a 4080S you'll get a 5080 basically with no mfg as far as I can tell

[manic horizon]

which is unprecedented yet

[jade pagoda]

Hhhhmmmm

[sleek phoenix]

The core differences to 5080 vs 4080S is less than the marketing pr that only describes 4080

It's halfway

So same tdp, they both should be close

Unless there's something else to this but it really doesn't sound like it

Like 50 series uses even less power than last gen (Plausible)

[jade pagoda]

Hm

[manic horizon]

370k for 4080
620k for 4090

I don't think paying double for 25% is a good investment

[sleek phoenix]

You can actually check this on 3d mark

4090 is about 19K in TSE

4080S is about like 14K-ish

4070TI about 10-12K-ish

4070 about 8-10K

Actually probably lower cos bit bus

[manic horizon]

Yeah, double money for 25% sounds like a bad deal

[sleek phoenix]

Wouldn't check lower

[jade pagoda]

Hmmm

[sleek phoenix]

I swear if that 9070 XT price starts with a 5 in the front then I basically called almost everything LOL

[manic horizon]

I'm just looking at the used market

[jade pagoda]

Dlss and mfg better knock our socks off. I’m not sold

[manic horizon]

cuz we're at the point here that I might actually be able to afford 40 series

not the 4090 tbf, that's still the price of a used car

[sleek phoenix]

Both fsr 4 and dlss 4 look miles better. But we know little to nothing about fsr 4

[jade pagoda]

Used 4090

[manic horizon]

but used 4080s are now very close to my personal mental limit with price

[manic horizon]

ye the cheapest one is 620k

[sleek phoenix]

The play rn for max performance imo

Get a used card on a panic sale

[jade pagoda]

Oh right…there’s currency besides the dollar

[sleek phoenix]

I think you'll fare better now that nvidia said that

[manic horizon]

620k HUF is....

[jade pagoda]

Hm yes

[manic horizon]

1550 USD

It's now available at MSRP kek

[jade pagoda]

Oh

[sleek phoenix]

Please shop safe

[manic horizon]

that REEEKS of scam

[sleek phoenix]

That profile has no reviews

Yeah

Super sus

Be careful

[jade pagoda]

lol. Don’t worry. I don’t trust it

[sleek phoenix]

Good

[jade pagoda]

There’s zero reviews and no returns

No..

[sleek phoenix]

You can chat with the others when I'm not here if you need a second opinion

Don't wanna get you out buying something then I hear it's a scam

[jade pagoda]

Never again…..

[sleek phoenix]

https://wccftech.com/amd-expands-zen-4-lineup-silently-launches-ryzen-5-7400f-cpu/

@cyan hamlet @agile perch

7500f but cheaper

Also
https://wccftech.com/heres-why-8gb-vram-gpus-might-not-be-future-proof/

[jade pagoda]

Duh

[sleek phoenix]

We can start talking about it now

Next gen it will become an issue

[jade pagoda]

It's not much of a discussion..just don't buy 8gb cards.

[sleek phoenix]

Well yeah now that the low end is starting to trend out of 8gb

[jade pagoda]

As they should

[sleek phoenix]

Up until now some 60% odd people are 8gb or less

I checked that like 2 days ago lol

[jade pagoda]

Oof

[sleek phoenix]

But low end should be trending off 8gb now, which means everyone will be transitioning these next two years

Now's the time to get ahead of that, long after the 40 series panic

So future advice should be considering whether the reasonable jump to >8gb card exists in the coming weeks

[agile perch]

Ooh

[cyan hamlet]

Forget "future proof" it isn't even "today proof"

[sleek phoenix]

Yep

So from here on we start moving towards avoiding 8gb suggestions

Unless there's no better option

[cyan hamlet]

I'm already at the point where I'll warn people whenever I have to recommend 8GB

[sleek phoenix]

That article btw is a bit exaggerated but it will be a problem soon

Since we will eventually lose the ability to turn down settings low enough

*hint hint RT enabled by default

[compact egret]

NgreedAI slop?

[shadow heart]

Nah just let the DLSS 4 cook it's okay

Might look like garbage but that’s okay

(This is a joke)

[willow copper]

Dont worry guys itll get better

..a couple generations down...

... a few thousand of your funds...

But it will we promise!

[compact egret]

don't worry guys

[willow copper]

After all, the more you buy, the more you save

[compact egret]

your csgo performance won't suffer

you just suck at the game

definitely not our fault

frame gen is god

[willow copper]

Bros doing magic tricks to play csgo in 2025

[compact egret]

I still call it csgo

force of habit

[willow copper]

Fair enough

[ivory pike]

I miss when actual components gave you the power in the gpu, not AI BS

[cyan hamlet]

I found it very funny when Nvidia admitted the 5090 can't run Cyberpunk with max RT at more than 30 fps

Not without said AI BS

[compact egret]

funny enough with how they've marketed blackwell as an AI platform, they're not even that good at running AI models

larger models will be choked by the tiny amount of vram on the 5090

[cyan hamlet]

Can't give it more memory without cannibalizing their actual server cards though

The ones they're getting 20k each for

[cyan hamlet]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itpcsQQvgAQ

[vivid kelp]

Big thing is usually just textures, afaik just not setting textures to the max usually fixes the issue. Consoles are still sitting at around 8GB of VRAM (assumption based of ~50% shared memory for RAM as well). So average 8GB user will be sitting at around console level textures with better/worse (depending on GPU perf) shading/models/LOD/etc.

Also note there are TDP differences between those GPUs, esp when considering AIB models. Doesnt seem like a major concern, but it is another variable that isnt just memory capacity

[rotund monolith]

Is the 4000 series better than the 5000 series then?

[compact egret]

In value? Probably will be

I'd wait for benchmarks

[willow copper]

but thats just overpriced vs less overpriced but still overpriced

[compact egret]

Depends

If they need an nvidia gpu for whatever reason

Well

In that case benchmarks (coming soon) will reveal its value

[willow copper]

Im hoping its at least middling value

[sleek phoenix]

💯

[manic horizon]

If you already have a 40 series GPU, I'd skip 5000

It's nowhere near the sort of uplift that'd make me shell out that sort of money

[willow copper]

If you have 3000 series id skip 5000

If you have 2000 series for gaming id skip 5000

Same for 1000

[cyan hamlet]

2000 is pushing it, 3060 ti=2080

[willow copper]

For gaming, there isnt as much of a reason unless you really need 1440p on a lot of stuff

Or rays for games that demand it etc

[cyan hamlet]

50 is just a linear increase according to power limit increases so you could just wait for 40 to go down in price and get a cheap 4070 ti

[willow copper]

Felix knows my bias here lol

[sleek phoenix]

Pretty much if you're on a 2080/2080 TI at this point you still have some juice in the tank to keep rolling

[willow copper]

I was a long lasting uhd 620 user

[sleek phoenix]

Lol

But like in terms of usual raster, 20 series is indeed getting on now

1080Ti also falls into that

(If you cared about dx12 it's been long into that)

[willow copper]

Thats only if you really care about the largest titles tho

I know people who get 4090s for fortnite

Like sure youll be limited on titles if you go back a bit

But theres still a lot thats accessible

[cyan hamlet]

Sadly yes, and then they play at 1080p medium so it's only 15% util

[willow copper]

Okay stop speaking the truth it hurts

[cyan hamlet]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-never-gif-14663571

[sleek phoenix]

At least reflex 2 will push that system latency down to 0 like they always wanted

Oh, oh 5% gpu usage? Only 5?

Welp

[willow copper]

me when i get 5% usage running cyberpunk on ultra settings (its at 72p)

[manic horizon]

Honestly I'd gladly take their 4090s off their hands and trade my 6700XT to them
It'd actually be utilized past 5% lol

[ivory pike]

I’ll be getting a 3060ti soon for $160

So I can skip a lot

[shadow heart]

That's not bad wtf

[ivory pike]

Lotta card sellers on fbmp

They sell bulk at a discount

[shadow heart]

Nice

[sleek phoenix]

LMFAO
https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/intels-arrow-lake-fix-doesnt-fix-overall-gaming-performance-or-correct-the-companys-bad-marketing-claims-core-ultra-200s-still-trails-amd-and-previous-gen-chips

Intel literally pulled a ryzen 9000 "update"

@cyan hamlet

[compact egret]

This gen is completely skippable for both companies (except for X3Ds)

[sleek phoenix]

I just can't believe I keep getting free uplifts for my current cpus

Both my ryzens and i9s just keep winning

Ryzen 9000 and Intel ultra 200 represent on both sides of the coin just how stupid the entire product stack this year has been for CPUs

Literally only the 9800X3D so far has been worth it

[manic horizon]

14700K for cheap still worthy?

[sleek phoenix]

When was it not

No bad products only bad prices

[manic horizon]

sadly new is still too expensive to be viable

I can check used, but that do feel like a minefield

[compact egret]

Yeah I wouldn't risk it for 13-14th gen especially

Some people might be selling degraded cpus online

[sleek phoenix]

Agree

That said if you have a z board, you could mitigate that

That and ebay buyer protection is pretty nasty to sellers who are disingenuous

Comes down to the article ig

[manic horizon]

sadly no access to ebay for me

besides I can actually build a 7700X/9700X system for cheaper than a 13/14th gen brand new

then in socket upgrade to X3D

[sleek phoenix]

Eh idk

Ig it depends on the use case but raw perf the 14700 would be better short term

Just gaming, would be favourable the other way but only really long term

[shut osprey]

yeah if it's just for gaming it's a no brainer

[sleek phoenix]

The 5090 is amazing guys you should totally buy it

[sleek phoenix]

@jade pagoda
https://videocardz.com/newz/custom-geforce-rtx-5080-and-rtx-5090-pricing-emerges-made-for-gamers-with-deep-pockets

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-radeon-rx-9070-xt-bumpy-launch-reportedly-linked-to-price-pressure-from-nvidia
https://www.tweaktown.com/news/102674/amds-next-gen-rdna-4-pricing-rumor-radeon-rx-9070-xt-for-599-499/index.html

[jade pagoda]

Waiting on US Pricing….

But those prices are concerning

[sleek phoenix]

If you don't grab a best buy preorder at $999 I'm not tryna scare you but I'd really grab a 4080/S instead

Your hope of a 5080 staying that cheap is AMD living up to the above rumours

Otherwise it's just gonna be expensive slop

[ivory pike]

The worst decision they could make

[jade pagoda]

I’ll wait

[sleek phoenix]

Be ready with a bot dude

LOL

[jade pagoda]

👀

[sleek phoenix]

Those things are gonna get sniped so fast

[jade pagoda]

@sleek phoenix looks like a good white 5080 will be 200 dollars over MSRP....

Doable ig

I'll wait for that 5080ti

[sleek phoenix]

You know what's better

A) 5080 TI most likely won't exist cos supers and TI's are Nvidia's way of appealing against AMD

B) 4080 white cards will be sub 1000

If you spend $1200 then you aren't even getting better value per $ mate lol

You'll be getting similar or worse and hoping mfg is the best thing since sliced bread 💀

[jade pagoda]

The reviews will save us 😔

[sleek phoenix]

10240 (4080S) vs 10752 (5080) cores

No IPC gain, only TDP bump

[jade pagoda]

That's just unfair

Holding my money back for this generation....

[sleek phoenix]

I mean

I've never felt more confident in how mild 50 series will be without MFG involved

Vs any other generation

[jade pagoda]

Sad

[sleek phoenix]

Becomes even sadder when you realise most 4080/S cards have tdp bumps anyway

[ionic notch]

What is MFG?

Massive Frame Generation?

[cyan hamlet]

Multi Frame Generation

It's generating up to 3 fake frames for every real frame effectively

[ionic notch]

DLSS4 right?

[cyan hamlet]

That's part of it yes

[ionic notch]

The 5090's increased vram is quite compelling for me regarding Blender.

Otherwise 5000 series looks like what Intel did going from 13th to 14th just with a couple bells and whistles.

[cyan hamlet]

It's at least better than 13 to 14th gen because Nvidia is adding more cores and power, but that equates to a linear increase over 40 series

They're the exact same cores with the same per core performance and efficiency, so it's still just a refresh

[sleek phoenix]

https://overclock3d.net/news/gpu-displays/overclockers-uk-has-single-digits-stock-of-rtx-5090-gpus-ahead-of-launch/

@jade pagoda

I don't think preordering is going to go well...

OC UK is one of the biggest pc retailers in their country

[shadow heart]

Yikes

[sleek phoenix]

I am pretty confident in my previous conclusions rn

This is really looking like a paper launch

Performance is still a little in the air but not looking at all like a real generational upgrade if you discount mfg

Ofc, grain of salt with everything, but reading this I'd be going used current gen instead most likely

Or 9070/XT

That thing was delayed because they tripped on the pricing

Oh yeah here we go

https://www.notebookcheck.net/GeForce-RTX-5090-launch-supply-concerns-mount-as-custom-gaming-PC-builder-terms-it-as-worst.950887.0.html

@jade pagoda @prime thicket good luck getting preorders lads

It's not just a rumour it seems

Paper launch incoming 💀

[sleek phoenix]

Hah

https://x.com/videocardz/status/1882406487319789664?s=46

VideoCardz.com (@VideoCardz) on X

First RTX 5090 review
"In terms of pure performance, without DLSS, there is a good increase, but the card does not make you shout for a miracle : on average we are talking about a +28%, which however is reflected in a +24% in consumption."
https://t.co/0fIVSjBQKz

X · Jan 23, 2025, 12:34 PM

28% for 25% more money

[sleek phoenix]

https://youtu.be/eA5lFiP3mrs

[sleek phoenix]

.

So key takeaways of 50 series:

• DLSS 4 with reflex 2 is a great update for all RTX
• The FE is a technical engineering dream with mid thermals
• The perf/$ will be meh at best
• New nvidia optimus looks huge to gains

Hardware big L
Software big W

Optimus might be game changing tbh

[shadow heart]

Man I can't wait to see AMD reviews now

[prime thicket]

https://tenor.com/view/bocchi-bocchi-the-rock-anime-mental-breakdown-on-floor-gif-27026755

[jade pagoda]

Eeehhh

[sleek phoenix]

Biggest skip gen I think since either turing or maybe way longer

Like pre maxwell

This is 14th gen levels of bad if you ignore mfg

[jade pagoda]

Watched one review, watching another……discouraging

The 5080 is going to suck for high end 30 series owners

[sleek phoenix]

9070 XT...

7900XT...

7900XTX

Used 4080S

[ivory pike]

Or just don’t buy

https://tenor.com/view/so-good-wink-smile-oh-yeah-its-true-gif-24163876

[sleek phoenix]

Go grab now while you can JP

The prices will be going back up shortly

[shut osprey]

I'll hang onto my 3080

I still need to upgrade from my 3600 LOL

[cyan hamlet]

I would say the same but I'm actually running out of VRAM lately

[sleek phoenix]

Which mobo you on

[shut osprey]

b450 Mortar Max

[cyan hamlet]

I'd get a 3090 if it weren't for this dang AI nonsense

[shut osprey]

I hear it is a good one

[sleek phoenix]

You might get away with a 5700X3D yeah

I think it is

I think I've said this already

[shut osprey]

yeah I was just thinking a 5700x3D

maybe you have LOL

[sleek phoenix]

5700X3D and maybe a dual tower thermalright or id cooling SE

If you need more cooling

[shut osprey]

mayhaps

My current one is a Deepcool Gammax 400 or something

[sleek phoenix]

Oh yeah I remember that one

Upgrade

Id cooling a620 se for $30 or any thermalright dual tower

Then 5700x3D

You'll be so cpu bound lately that the x3d will do a lot already

Just the way games are rn

[sleek phoenix]

@cyan hamlet @agile perch things you'll want to know.

• 50 series MFG sucks, 75 games only (Through override) much less native support. Actual performance in game is questionable, just like DLSS 3 FG was (It's arguable FG is usable now with DLSS 4 and reflex 2)
• 5090 is insanely cpu bound by intel rn, to the point people think it's a bug - It's not. The 4090 had this issue but it was (mostly) fixable with tuning. It might still stand to improve with time but the 4090 is still improving with new CPUs as well
• "Single digit" 90 stock. Paper launch is all but definite. 80 stock is "Hundreds"
• Transformative DLSS 4 is not 40% faster but in real practice about 10% slower, but this needs citation*
• FE cards suck. Hot af, LM, risky to vertical mount in the immediate short term (I'm tempted to say indefinitely but time will tell)
• Larger bit bus and gddr7 makes up the slight edge in 5090's performance gain, but largely negligible price/fps, in fact a loss in gaming terms (±2% per $)
• 50 series new NVENC/NVDEC is an actual star of the show with an insane uplift in performance
• Nvidia optimus might give a huge uplift to 50 series laptops
• Along with everything else, $2000 definitely won't stick. I don't think either of the previous 90 class cards had stock this low on launch
• DLSS 4 tech, neural rendering and ray reconstruction are the real interesting parts that deserve more air time than the hardware itself (These look like actual improvements)

I think that covers most of everything that's tangent

The rest should be pretty straightforward

[sleek phoenix]

^

[manic horizon]

thing is
Because stock is as low as it is, nGreedAI WILL hold to 2k at least

probably gonna be higher actually with scalpers all but guaranteed to snap up what little stock is available

at least I doubt nVidia would actually allow prices to go lower

[sleek phoenix]

They'll do what they did in the pandemic, and tried to do with the 4090

The price will go up

[manic horizon]

ONLY UP

[sleek phoenix]

Only up

Don't forget they raised the lowest market price of the 4090 before it got discontinued

[manic horizon]

yye ofc

[sleek phoenix]

They tried the same with the 3090 ti iirc

3090 got inflated to what a 5090 is worth in my country rn

If early pricing is to be trusted, aib's are starting at 2200

Like

I've never felt more confident in the ridiculous blarney this release is

[fast trout]

all these new products make me more and more glad i dropped $600 on my 6950 XT

still is a beast in the stuff i use it for

[sleek phoenix]

I remember a few months ago something about a 7900XT and 7900GRE and I kept telling you the 6950 was good

[fast trout]

i knew that 2 slot FE was gonna be a problem I had a feeling

[fast trout]

you probably did I just cannot remember

I just wish it was a bit quieter at higher rpm but its not a huge deal

[sleek phoenix]

It's the xfx right

[fast trout]

mhm

[sleek phoenix]

Xfx cards do be like that

That's just how they do things

Lol

[fast trout]

still the best looking card out there so idc, i have noise cancelling headphones anyway

let me watch the GN 5090 review

is optimum a solid reviewer as well @sleek phoenix? I've watched his stuff before and I love how he shoots his videos, I just don't know much about him other than he does mini PCs and reviews super high refresh rate monitors. https://youtu.be/5YJNFREQHiw?si=oK-KbZZJD72u36t6

[vivid kelp]

2k MSRP will def stick with 32GB of VRAM and AI. It'll stick until AI dies or until AI workloads get huge VRAM optimizations

Neither seems likely for a long time

Oh wait

I thought you meant it going lower, not higher

[sleek phoenix]

Wish that were the case but early aib prices seem to start at 2.2

Oh

Welp

Higher seems already imminent

[vivid kelp]

Yeah

[sleek phoenix]

He's good. He just prioritises SFF and latency stuff

[vivid kelp]

We'll get like 25% price increase, and all blame will be in tarrifs depsite current price prolly already accounting for tarrifs

Just like 30 series

[sleek phoenix]

Yep yep

I couldn't agree more

[fast trout]

SFF is small form factor?

[sleek phoenix]

Updated

[sleek phoenix]

Ye

[sleek phoenix]

https://youtube.com/shorts/GyWAwbBdi-0

Shortages in regions

We've already seen this but now it seems really true

[fast trout]

how come optimum didnt list power draw for the radeon cards?

i dont believe he mentioned it

[sleek phoenix]

Probably because efficiency isn't on the map with radeon in this argument

[fast trout]

wdym

[sleek phoenix]

It's just plain worse

[fast trout]

radeon power efficiency to geforce power efficiency is just plain worse is what you mean?

[sleek phoenix]

Ye

[fast trout]

mk gotcha

do you think 4090/4080 prices will drop at all once the 50 series hit shelves?

[sleek phoenix]

They were discontinued.

Uh

...

[fast trout]

oh

thats news to me ig

💀

[cyan hamlet]

Used prices will probably go down a bit but production on those stopped like 6 months ago

[ivory pike]

HAHAHA

$2800 for a gpu

[willow copper]

How to say you have money to burn without saying you have money to burn

[sleek phoenix]

Thank you hardware canucks for posting real numbers about this:
https://youtu.be/5TJk_P2A0Iw

TL;DR you're ridiculous to use this card at 1440p

And a couple years ago we didn't even have the 7800X3D yet, this same issue popped up with the 4090 and NO ONE talked about it.

It's taken 2 years for pc gaming to become capable to run the 4090 at mostly usable MAX graphics at 1440p

And now, the 5090 arrives with the same issue

@cyan hamlet @agile perch ^

Important reference for anyone asking about this card

6/14 games cpu bottlenecked on a 9800X3D

And here's the irony

The 5090, looks like THE 4090 AT 1440P when at 4K now, with the new CPUs we have

So ANYONE buying a 5090

Needs to be on 4K MINIMUM

1440P UW will barely cut it on a 9800X3D

Anything less and you are definitively bottlenecked

I'm 100% certain of this

So the old gen can now just about all run at 1440p on the fastest cpus now

This is a shift from 2 years ago. People can finally consider a 4090 (albeit still ridiculous) for 1440p

But you need a 9800X3D to do that

And a 5090 definitively needs 4K

If not dual ultrawide like a G9

Anything less is a bottleneck. Period.

[compact egret]

wait

am I reading this wrong

[sleek phoenix]

AMA

Lol

[compact egret]

so

running the 5090 at 1080p and 1440p is literally comparable to a 4090?

what?

[sleek phoenix]

Almost

Ok fair question

Let me explain

[compact egret]

🤔

[sleek phoenix]

Over the past couple years I've had many people tell me "A 4090 isn't bottlenecked at 1440p"

Despite, you know

Me owning one

Them not

Lmao

[compact egret]

So is this a gpu utilisation overhead issue like B580?

or something different entirely

[sleek phoenix]

These tests demonstrate the amount of cpu power required for EITHER of these gpus

[sleek phoenix]

Different

This is just cpu bottlenecking on these gpus in general

[compact egret]

so the 5090 would be worth it... in a couple years

[sleek phoenix]

They're too powerful for cards

[compact egret]

and considering the lackluster launches this gen

[sleek phoenix]

No, it's a 4K card

Like

Completely

[compact egret]

hm

[sleek phoenix]

Just hold the questions for a sec I'll explain it again

The 90 cards have a huge issue with being fully utilised at lower resolution/graphic settings

It should be expected, right?

Super powerful, all that

Many people over the years have told me the 4090 is a 1440p card

Some as much as 1080p

This test, proves my point

When the 4090 released we had the 13900k

That cpu is way slower in cpu bound scenarios than a 9800x3d

BACK THEN

The 4090, also on much lighter games

Was cpu bottlenecked at 1440p

I called that out 2 years ago

And people argued with me at times, tooth and nail about it

The 5090, shows this same issue

Now that we have AM5 X3D, that card

That card is now bottlenecked on the newer cpus at 1440p

It's like, definitively way too fast for 1440p

Like at all

So why this is important is for future suggestions

People shopping for a 5090, need to be offered 4K or a 49" ultrawide

[compact egret]

I see

[sleek phoenix]

MINIMUM

[compact egret]

so basically for 1440p it'd be bottlenecked down to say

[sleek phoenix]

Cos at MAX GRAPHICS it's bottlenecked significantly at 1440p

[compact egret]

4080s performance?

or 5080/s/ti?

[sleek phoenix]

About 4090-ish

[compact egret]

yikes

that's really bad

[sleek phoenix]

2 years ago the 4090 was bottlenecked to about 4080-ish

At 1440p max settings

If not worse

[compact egret]

what about now?

does the 4090 still get bottlenecked

[sleek phoenix]

Now, a 9800X3D runs it at max

[compact egret]

hmm

[sleek phoenix]

And I'm changing my tone for the future

[compact egret]

how's 4090 for recommendations for a 1440p gpu

because like

[sleek phoenix]

Barely justified

Like

It barely makes the cut now

[compact egret]

💀

[sleek phoenix]

On a 9800X3D no less

[compact egret]

let me guess

[sleek phoenix]

I've been saying this for ages, many didn't believe me

[compact egret]

bottleneck still kills it

[sleek phoenix]

Uh

If not MAX graphics yes

[compact egret]

💀

so basically with the 90s gpu

it's either 4k or just... go a tier lower

[sleek phoenix]

I still er on the side of 4K for both

[compact egret]

because that much more money

[sleek phoenix]

Yeah

[compact egret]

💀

jesus

[sleek phoenix]

And this doesn't mean 27" 4K makes sense

No

[compact egret]

now I can see why radeon's not competing head on

[sleek phoenix]

We aren't at that point yet

[compact egret]

they don't need to

radeon's more comfy at the 1440p range

[sleek phoenix]

Still 32" minimum recommendations for 4K

Due to ppd and ppi tradeoffs

[compact egret]

yeah

I usually recommend 1440p anyways because

4K is high maintenance

[sleek phoenix]

This context is super important but yeah, we have 2 definitive 4K cards rn

[compact egret]

needs constant upgrades to sustain performance with new releases

that and/or dlss/fg

even then...

[sleek phoenix]

Back when the 4080/XTX came out I was saying mostly the same stuff about them

It was basically the limit for 1440p

And 4K made more sense

Back then

[compact egret]

I wonder tho

If we had more powerful cpus

say intel made a stupidly powerful chip

[sleek phoenix]

Now, I'm much more comfortable about these two at 1440p

They're falling off

[sleek phoenix]

B990?

[compact egret]

cpu

[sleek phoenix]

Wym powerful

[compact egret]

say a gaming cpu that just has magically better performance than a 9800X3D

[sleek phoenix]

Which way

[compact egret]

in games

[sleek phoenix]

Alr

[compact egret]

would the 50 series launch have been better?

[sleek phoenix]

That's a terrible way to ask that question but I see where you're going lmao

In a good way it's possible the 5090 still has legs even at 4K if we had better cpus

[compact egret]

seems like the whole tech sector handicapping each other these past few months

[sleek phoenix]

The 4090 however, has the same issue

[compact egret]

yeah and with DLSS/MFG

[sleek phoenix]

Like even now

[compact egret]

5090 is genuinely a good 4K card

[sleek phoenix]

The 4090 and 5090 are both bandwidth capped

Better bandwidth will continue to improve them

[compact egret]

pcie? or mem?

[sleek phoenix]

The 5090 may have however, a higher ceiling

[sleek phoenix]

Cpu ipc

[compact egret]

ah

[sleek phoenix]

Better ram, better cpu perf

Per 8 thread

That's what will stretch them out further

We've seen in synthetics a strong indicator of their actual differences

Games don't fully represent that

Yet

[compact egret]

I wonder if core ultra can have a comeback

[sleek phoenix]

Nah

It won't

[compact egret]

because they do seem to be able to take advantage of higher memory speeds than ryzen

no?

[sleek phoenix]

They bungled it hard

[compact egret]

jesus christ there's almost no good news this gen

there is X3D

[sleek phoenix]

They've had like, 3 chances to "fix" their performance

9000 is the same

[compact egret]

just X3D...

[sleek phoenix]

Similar game perf

[compact egret]

sigh

[sleek phoenix]

Middling results

There's something to consider here

Next gen ryzen will have a new mem controller

Process node shrink

Huge upgrade

9000 was basically a refresh

For intel, 18A(?)

[compact egret]

isn't uhh

[sleek phoenix]

Another node shrink

[compact egret]

core ultra a refresh too?

[sleek phoenix]

No it's new

[compact egret]

ok intel really fumbled that one

[sleek phoenix]

But they renovated the chips big time

So it's understandable why it messed up

[compact egret]

yeah I do really like how much more efficient their new design is

just not their performance

[sleek phoenix]

For what they accomplished it's genuinely impressive

That said, not value

[compact egret]

yeah the core ultra was a pretty impressive bit of engineering

just... you know

not worth the money

[sleek phoenix]

Next gen cpus may bring out more performance out of both the 90 cards

It definitely will of the 5090

Outside of 4K

Maybe even at 4K

[compact egret]

so outside of 4K, the 5090 is straight up not worth buying

until we get new cpus

[sleek phoenix]

Imo yes

[compact egret]

damn

[sleek phoenix]

Even with new cpus it may be still bottlenecked

I will wait until we have a clear review of this

[compact egret]

considering how the 4090 could still be bottlenecked now

eh

[sleek phoenix]

Yeah ikr

4090 is still a 4K card

[compact egret]

maybe amd will come in and troll everyone with a new cpu and gpu launch

[sleek phoenix]

Averaging 120 fps at near max settings

Then 5090 at like 150+ 💀

Then you can add frame gen 2x

[compact egret]

plot twist: ryzen 9000 was a troll so they can get better figures for their next gen rtx 5090 killer launch

[sleek phoenix]

For both

So the two 90 cards just run away at 4K

With good system latency and now very usable FG

MFG has a long ass way to go

Which will probably be my play next gen

6090

By then mfg makes sense

And they'll probably have something worse

[compact egret]

what if instead of using mfg we just got more optimised games

[sleek phoenix]

Multi multi frame gen maybe

[compact egret]

😲

[sleek phoenix]

8x

[sleek phoenix]

Tbh if they make frame gen better with the QoL 50 series gave, each gen, they could make this a real turnaround for game development

[compact egret]

honestly we could have better quality games

then raw performance can catch up post release

[sleek phoenix]

I agree but 1 company helping fix bad issues vs many game studios wringing the money fountain dry is an easier outcome

[compact egret]

considering how complex game are nowadays while still limited with the conventional release schedules

[sleek phoenix]

Yep

But yeah DLSS 4 and reflex 2 have shifted my opinion of FG

Not MFG

[compact egret]

looking at you EA, Activision, Ubisoft, 2K, Microsoft and everyone else

[sleek phoenix]

FG is now at the point of usable

[compact egret]

MFG imo is a bad idea

[sleek phoenix]

Agree

But FG is now usable

[compact egret]

especially with how complex a frame can be

one frame is not too hard

[sleek phoenix]

With reflex 2 even in competitive you could use fg

[compact egret]

but multiple frames is just asking for ghosting

[sleek phoenix]

Not that I would

Yeah mfg has a long way to go

Wait until 60 series before that becomes good

[compact egret]

In comp you'd lower settings

[sleek phoenix]

Nvidia will release a newer better ai model again

Ik ik

Just for the point of argument

System latency on FG is now usable

You wouldn't want to do that tho for comp ideally but it would work

It would be usable

Brb

[sleek phoenix]

Reposting for visibility, details and reasoning above

[sleek phoenix]

https://youtu.be/kdjOfKPt51s

@fervent walrus

At same tdp, 5090 ≈ 4090 efficiency*

But it has a lot of undervolt headroom

[fervent walrus]

Pretty similar to the computer base testing it sounds like

[sleek phoenix]

Fal's gonna like this one 💀

https://www.techspot.com/news/106480-old-gigabyte-laser-mouse-bursts-flames-company-investigating.html

[cyan hamlet]

wtaf

[sleek phoenix]

[sharp wing]

Is that even possible

[cyan hamlet]

It would have to short circuit but the current is so low in a mouse... And USB overcurrent protection should have kicked in too once it did short.

The center of heat was also in a section of the mouse that shouldn't have any electronics

The plot thickens.

[sharp wing]

Yeah seems unusual

[sleek phoenix]

It's a short for sure

But what of, is the question

[sharp wing]

Honestly seems like a meme, from exploding psu to exploding mice lmao

[sleek phoenix]

I've experienced usb shorts in real time

They can get hot af at the connector

Melt themselves

That's what my money is on rn

Some sort of small short that just happened to lead to a sustained black fire

Feel bad for the dude

[compact egret]

Yikes

[sleek phoenix]

https://youtu.be/B_fGlVqKs1k

[sleek phoenix]

What

https://youtube.com/shorts/ZZzd62ccy7Q

Have they actually lost the plot

[vivid kelp]

So either them fans have higher static pressure than ventilation fans or large heat sources just have no ventilation in homes? Hmmmm, interesting.... ||/s||

[spice cedar]

Does noctua not have business in the industrial side?

[compact egret]

Literally the only reason to get noctua is acoustics

They're the quietest air coolers

That's it

[cyan hamlet]

That and the NH-D15 v2 is technically the best air cooler, period

Both for noise normalized and 100% fan performance

It's also completely unnecessary for the majority of people since liquid coolers can beat it for half the price

[manic horizon]

IIRC someone toppled them in normalized

by like a hair

Thermalright Phantom Spirit 120 EVO
And the Peerless Assassin 120 matches it for a third the price

[sleek phoenix]

PA140 probably did do it

[sleek phoenix]

Ooo

https://videocardz.com/newz/alleged-geforce-rtx-5080-3dmark-leak-15-faster-than-rtx-4080-super

@fervent walrus you were right

I was a little bit under

@jade pagoda

That said, they're using a 9800X3D for context

28000 I believe is the average score which most don't have lol

Hmm ok no, they averaged 4080 & super on the same cpu

So 15% will be the buzz number I think

So I'm still curious, I bet a higher power vbios on a 4080S/4080 would make up the difference to a 5080

Cos you can unlock the voltage up to 1.1v (Higher if you want to destroy the card) on the 40 cards

And then add a vbios flash of like a strix or suprim

Let it run 450W+

I reckon, this is still a waste of money if not msrp

Lol

[jade pagoda]

Hhhhhmmmm

it can't beat a 4090 after all

What is this, Nvidia?

[sleek phoenix]

It's worse if you can flash higher power vbios cards in

Like my suprim does 40.5K ambient

[jade pagoda]

😔

[sleek phoenix]

And a good 4080/S should do near 32K

Lmao

[jade pagoda]

Disgusting

[sleek phoenix]

Idk why they pulled 36K for the 4090 tho, stock is more like 38K

Must be cpu bound or something

[jade pagoda]

But what about MFG/DlSS4 with the later addition of NR2? Maybe that would be worth it

[sleek phoenix]

It's just mfg

All cards get the other stuff afaik

MFG needs a lot of work

It also only seems to look ok on a handful of games so far

In 2 years when nvidia find a better mfg model then it'll probably look better

Rn you're buying into a beta test imo

[jade pagoda]

Right

Worst generation in awhile

[sleek phoenix]

https://youtube.com/shorts/ABdFigHlf9g

Pretty big situation

[jade pagoda]

There goes the prices...

[sleek phoenix]

🙃

[sleek phoenix]

Whoa.

https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidias-tight-geforce-rtx-50-margins-put-pressure-on-board-partners-msrp-feels-like-charity

EVGA warned us

about this...

[cyan hamlet]

Not a single MSRP card except the FE 🤣

If all the AIBs band together they might be able to fight Nvidia on an unfair business practice/competition lawsuit

Nvidia's margin on these dies is really large, but even more so for the AI/server dedicated cards. They have a 800% margin on the H100.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-makes-1000-profit-on-h100-gpus-report

Can anyone guess why there's already reports of 5090 shortages?

If you guessed "||the wafers are being allocated to the extremely high profit margin cards||" you'd be correct

[compact egret]

NgreedAI moment

I wonder what the pcmr copers on reddit are going to come up with now

I wonder if that's why Kingpin is sitting out this gen

Maybe it's just too expensive to make a kingpin this gen

[cyan hamlet]

No he's sitting out this gen because he doesn't have enough time to spin up the workshop and design a new PCB etc before the cards are effectively irrelevant

[compact egret]

Shame

[sleek phoenix]

Nah

They had blackwell on the radar like this since like early ampere

Same process, but trying to be cutting edge using things like gddr7

He's just ruined it for aibs

What probably happened is the resulting price pressure from nvidia was a calculated move that hit AMD, and that resulted in both AMD delaying, and AIBs getting shafted

Think of it in reverse

If both AMD and AIBs expected higher prices, then the numbers check out

$2100 msrp for a 5090 still makes 1:1 sense with price/perf of last gen

Which again lines up with AIB base pricing

Way I see it is NVIDIA doesn't care, but more so in the way they're trying to shaft the competition

Makes AMD look really bad if they decide "Hey let's drop it 10% on the reveal and tell no one" right?

Close kept secret that didn't leak even to AIBs

[sleek phoenix]

Wtf

https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-ai-max-395-strix-halo-apu-radeon-8060s-faster-than-rtx-4070-1080p-gaming-benchmarks/

The 40CU sku exists

Maybe I should get THIS

Ah

It's closer to 4060 desktop cos of the sku they picked

[shadow heart]

Man I might get one for my next server

Nuts

[spice cedar]

Its not a mobile chip?

[willow copper]

ill take your old one

[sleek phoenix]

It is

"Mobile" it's a full laptop powerhouse

[sleek phoenix]

I remember this too

[manic horizon]

PCMR reddit is coping so hard

But I mean

TECHNICALLY it's 3× the framerate

Technically it's correct
Which is the best kind of correct

[willow copper]

Technically i talk to women, my mom, my friend, i even messaged merry christmas to my grandma

[manic horizon]

From a legal standpoint, under select circumstances there is a 3× increase of framerates, the most universally accepted performance metric

So TECHNICALLY the claim is true

Just with several asterisks each the size of the Sun

[ivory pike]

I prefer real frames

[manic horizon]

Your preference is noted and promptly ignored by the marketing wheel /s

[sleek phoenix]

Real

AI

***

[willow copper]

Oh they're real frames alright, just really bad ones

[sleek phoenix]

Reconstituted

Nobody expects nvidia coming in aiming for 99% recycled frames

"Not THAT kind of recycling Jensen!"

https://youtu.be/giPoaGGxSYo

[agile perch]

@sleek phoenix HAHHAHAHAHA

[sleek phoenix]

Yeah I saw earlier lol

They really buggered that one huh

Now everyone's holding them to Frank Azor's words

[agile perch]

A $900 9070xt, that's supposedly slightly worse than an xtx

When xtx has been $870ish and below for how long?

Insanity

[compact egret]

They're going to have to do another price drop like last gen

[agile perch]

Still laughable

They said they're waiting to launch to work on drivers and fsr compatibility across games, i think they were waiting to see how high they can set their prices

[marble meteor]

Note it says "initially"

[manic horizon]

I think they're starting to learn about pricing

One thing that worries me tho

AMD seems to be actually trying to cater to enthusiasts

Which is not where you get market share

Big volume SI prebuilts is where it's at, and nGreedAI dominates those to such a staggering extent

That and also influencer marketing for team green

Y'know if all the creators use your ultra-top end, they'll all sing praises about it (especially with a bit of cash incentives) so you can fleece the masses on your objectively inferior lower SKUs that people actually buy

[sleek phoenix]

Them doing 899 would have been a wild take

For the last two years they've been saying "No high-end"

At CES they were comparing to 70 and 60 class nvidia cards

Them showing us "better" then charging more would've been a complete failure of a read of the market

Esp when all their last gen cards would've been cheaper per dollar

The ones who are buying nvidia rn want amd to be cheaper not more expensive

They want the kind of card that will go down in the history books as being "shockingly cheap"

Which is, extremely unrealistic tbh lmao

But Frank Azor was promising a LOT of things at CES

They've dug their hole, now they need to lie in it

[sleek phoenix]

@agile perch https://www.tweaktown.com/news/102826/amd-says-no-the-radeon-rx-9070-xt-will-not-cost-899-usd/index.html

[sleek phoenix]

Heh.

[compact egret]

Would be based if amd priced it to be $599 and $699

[cyan hamlet]

It'll depend on how Ngreedia decides to price the 5070 ti I think

[sleek phoenix]

https://www.dsogaming.com/news/leaked-amd-fsr-4-dll-confrims-rdna-4-exclusivity/

"RDNA 3 might be close enough...-...RDNA 2 forget it"

[sleek phoenix]

@fervent walrus @jade pagoda 5080 review leaked

||7% average boost over 4080S||

Turns out I was right in real world performance

[fervent walrus]

Isn't that about what we expected

[sleek phoenix]

Well your guess was right for synthetics

[fervent walrus]

It's like 20 over non super

[sleek phoenix]

Interesting contrast

[sleek phoenix]

No

4080 and super are basically identical

1-2% difference

[fervent walrus]

Uh

Huh

My mind is still thinking about 30 series lmao

[sleek phoenix]

The only thing the 4080S brought us was a better msrp

Oh yeah 3080Ti was a jump

Lol

Man it's not even double digits for the lower skus

That's really low

But I had it estimated well

What's even scarier is a vbios flash will make up half or more of that easily

The 5080 is like 10% more power

[fervent walrus]

I'd be disappointed if it was negligible for 5070 but it seems likely now

[sleek phoenix]

That's negligible

If 5080 is like this 5070 will definitely be like this