Back to school we go

[narrow idol]

This is a simple event meant to give some lesser experienced members some tips and tricks to do higher difficulties. Its totally not because i'm stuck on t16

Rules:

1. Use the DS information sheet posted by sin https://discord.com/channels/496757856662585385/1140799973915623507
   https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17UlkUBD1-NFW8p1zZoiK0Ky8uVyElct5c7ZHnfTg6qs/edit?usp=sharing

Prizes:
<@&1147675389292970125>

Deadline: End of September

Goal: Create a build using the information sheet, and try to make it informative, the higher difficulty its meant for the better. If you collaborate with someone then you can credit them and you both get the title 🙂

Submission: just post the link of the sheet and your good

Details subject to change until this message is gone
Please keep this channel for submissions alone

[fleet inlet]

You can also post your guide in the https://discord.com/channels/496757856662585385/1140799973915623507**** for easy tracking or for me to recommend other people idea to people who wanna try something new :^)

[narrow idol]

ill cross post them there after

[cobalt pebble]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18BTu0jC7qVKS9tMo1ccVenAsoQUloiIHjBXpk7AFTPE/edit

It cringe acid build… ish

[fleet inlet]

lol if you want use can use the row on the comp on the left to add note like what goddess and etc

[nova lintel]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JsSuwA4Kvs7NTep4QMGv3fvE9ffdW-z12tnbLJUviUQ/ K i'm done.

[jovial trout]

Baph build
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gXqzfn4w3PDBxtF8WU3h9E6QVH6cmB9M7cteSUwWSd4/

[echo vortex]

I can guarantee this build lacks consistency for T-12.
Sad to admit but looks like there’s no single build that 10/10 clear T-12 other than ambidextrous

[jovial trout]

[tardy blade]

For this build, why double sword on kraken? There are not much physical skills on team

[jovial trout]

In my experience, ambidextrous always not first choice in t12 to farm.
In particular, efficiency of information collect was slow down.

Ambidextrous is too strong and too easy to clear t16.
In fact, any builds can't single than corrupted abundance have low reload to hold invincible by ambidextrous.
But it's not necessary in t12.

This builds just provide my usual farming as reference.
Anyone could adapt in accordance with their personal preferences If they wish.

[nova lintel]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dbiQYVu5yVSoLnPcvjM1laPYVWQxb8Kordxm9u9sS14/ setup I use for fun.

[nova lintel]

7 is more than enough. If you have a good w5 temp it gives like 40+ attack.

[tardy blade]

ok

[tardy blade]

another question, why not ricochet on kraken water arrow?

[nova lintel]

Don't need it.

So taking the extra damage or reload speed is better

[tardy blade]

alright

what makes this build not need it? compared to other kraken builds i see run ricochet

[nova lintel]

Probably they overkill it. You don't need more than two ricochet to clear non-immortal units safely. Probably also habit from before Rapid Torrent was added or they use the 15% additional to phys on rapid torrent.

[graceful salmon]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Jv-SY_DBpjuuRJ4CCMq-glxlsOWRRW4STrhsfDDXGCs/
Very op cerb build in which she definitely did the most dmg.
In all honestly I wouldn't recommend to use cerb carry because they nerfed her a too many times while buffing the other monsters. She probably could have done more dmg with a better temp, but so the others monsters to which I didn't even give a third item or a legendary item

[raven ocean]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RqNl6bUqqNfZFlu_fhOZMFPeqebZ0nNKpxM8y-sPIUU/
idk, some of the attributes are outdated so i just picked the closest sounding ones
stheno and dia are cool 👍

[fleet prism]

I've made my own version of the sheet here, if anyone's interested in it.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gaC_ITAWMWlX3QPBPBQv4q0xM2ZeLFD6T7viN8Irs8E/edit?usp=sharing

It has some pros and cons.
Pros:
- Dedicated "output" page with more information that I think is easier to screenshot and share (fits on one screen). This way ppl can glance at the image on Discord, rather than needing to open up a whole sheet.
- More info = number of each item needed, recommended formation & starting relic, and ideal dark god blessings.
- Added images for the characters and temperaments (and formations and relics).
- Teambuilder includes a section showing you how many skills you have of certain types, as well a Chimera Power of Unity helper, because I got tired of manually calculating if I had all 7 elements on the team. (The number of elements does take adding / changing element passives into account.)
- I've fixed a few of the attributes that were incorrect or misspelt, and updated Diablo for the new patch.
- Characters (and dark gods) are color-coded, rather than the 5 slots just being 5 static colors. (Some may not care but I think this is a pro. :D)

Cons:
- I can't fkn get Peace to drop so her info isn't added to the sheet yet. Clearly she doesn't exist tho, so it doesn't matter that she's not there. (I'll add her ASAP.)
- I've "fixed" the passive attribute descriptions to be consistent and shortened so they fit on two lines (aka. look good in the output page). However, this means that a lot of the descriptions aren't exactly the same as the in-game ones... They still mean the same thing, but they're written entirely differently. Personally I like it cuz I know what I mean, obviously, but I understand if others find it confusing. I'll need feedback from you guys and, if enough ppl don't like the descriptions as is, I'll fix 'em to be the same as in-game.
- There's less room for detailed notes.

Attached is an example of the output page.

Oh, my message reached the text limit but another pro:
- passive skill dropdowns are adjusted to only show you passives you can have with the skills you've input above.

[narrow idol]

Ty ty

[swift junco]

joy's Master of Pleasure attribute is 35% to the power of her own skills, not a team buff

[fleet prism]

That's so sad

but thanks, I'll fix it

I was like "there's no way the effect could be that bad, it's gotta affect the whole team"

[swift junco]

unfortunately, it is actually that garbo

[fleet prism]

I just realized all the temperament icons are busted cuz I forgot to adjust the clear cells buttons for 'em. Fixing that now.

[graceful salmon]

also why is your sheet only here and not in a new forum post

[fleet prism]

I didn't know where to post it. Sorry. I'll make a new post now, so we can stop filling this chat up with conversation not about the event.

[swift junco]

my first t16 clear
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vQs8ORAeDZ_5JO1OZS7YYHlQWrj7fXvuFBMhtZFbPQBEppU4MARh1Tvm9765GMvdOoV2s_rQTzLMojl/pubhtml?gid=137192293&single=true

[swift junco]

if going for farm run, i highly recommend taking withdrawal as starting relic and removing unknown future trial

[graceful salmon]

is withdrawal even good?

if it is the one I'm thinking about, then it was pretty useless when I tried it

[swift junco]

it's the one that always guarantees 3 dark origins instead of 1

[graceful salmon]

then yes, that one felt pretty meh

iirc I only got 3 dark origin less than 5 times

because the reward itself of the battle has to be dark origin for it to work

[nova lintel]

yeah if you play with chaos you should pretty much never take devil stone rewards.

[tardy blade]

there's no way diablo still carries support items in the most recent patch right? i tried copying your build 1:1 and i found i really suffer from damage early-mid and with diablo still doing the most damage holding support items

[graceful salmon]

that was an older patch with the old ambi and it was already 80% meme, so now it is even worse

[tardy blade]

i was really struggling to clear t12 with it

i thought ambi didn't get changed?

[fleet prism]

It was nerfed. Other stats went from 50 to 35% and Cooldown went from 33 to 20%. It's in the patch notes for 331, at the very bottom of the list of Relic changes.

[jovial trout]

[tardy blade]

i should read more carefully

[fleet prism]

Here's my Sheet and Guide for the Cerb team I've been using today. Been decimating T12s with it on Auto so I'm pretty confident about it.

Updated to add Chimera Dark Axe and a few other adjustments. With that said, (while this team still works perfectly fine) as of 335 when this was written, you may as well run Chimera main instead of Cerb so this team is a bit outdated.

Sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uUZT2o8pokdogjkpd7fcRnk4vFUUg-EQ4He_eWFmVzs/edit?usp=sharing

Written Guide:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gAS4EGp1czjg1__2JBkEUI41u6a0XTJEe9G38pI7f-0/edit?usp=sharing

[pallid hollow]

Nice build indeed !

[tardy blade]

this build is quite good

[tardy blade]

@fleet prism is there a reason you use sword book on diablo instead of double ring?

[fleet prism]

I've always just ran Sword + Book assuming it's the best item for everyone in every scenario. I operate under the assumption that if your carry isn't hitting enough enemies fast enough to keep 50 stacks, then you're probably not killing stuff fast enough. Though that was admittedly before Emma Blessings slowed things down a bit.

Regardless, I have no idea how good Ring + Ring is cuz I've never really used it. Maybe one day I'll get my damage calculator far enough along to be able to estimate how Ring + Ring compares with Sword + Book on someone other than Pegasus.

[tardy blade]

Makes sense

That was also my concern, in the early game you're not hitting enemies fast enough

In my testing they seemed relatively equal, double ring is very nice though for the extra AP and stacks nicely with strong temperament

[fleet prism]

I see, I see. It's entirely possible I'm missing out since I've never tried it, so I'll give it a shot next time, thanks 😄

[pallid hollow]

The same case as me I haven't tried ring+ring yet hahah

[fleet prism]

Okay, here's some very rough end-game calcs comparing Ring + Ring (first image) and Sword + Book (second). The important part is really just the Final DPS numbies on the right. (This is also serving to compare numbies between the different skill attributes, which is why there's so many numbies.)

TL;DR: Ring + Ring should be better. This example is using a Heroic-rarity Elite High Wizard (with some very rough estimate AP amounts)

With that said, after typing all of that, I've realize this example is heavily favoring Ring + Ring because the +50% Power you get from Sword + Book is less effectively with the 70% Power from Chimera and Joy (35% from each).

If you don't have them, or Power from other sources, then Sword + Book comes out on top significantly.

This is an example with everything the same, except without the 70% Power from Chimera + Joy:

And you can see that Sword + Book comes out on top.

So I guess the actual TL;DR is that they're pretty even, and it depends on your overall build.

[tardy blade]

That makes sense. From my experience with genshin TC I had suspected there would be diminishing returns from stacking power

[minor glacier]

Im still running ambidex diablo & Bapho carry and didnt fail a single T12 run even on new patch. However im using abundance instead of hellhound. bapho going for chain soul expulsion, itried pentagram, but the 1sec delay feels so awful and doenst contribute much compared to chain expulsion, however it still works to clear. cerb, abundance and chimera are support. chimera can be either build for ad or ap suppport, depending on need and temperament luck.

[tardy blade]

@fleet prism

doesn't taking this property for envoy of pleasure lock out power of unity's buff?

[fleet prism]

Yeah so I thought that initially because I thought that interaction happened to me before, but then I tested it again a few days ago and it was totally fine... I tested with both Joy's passive, as well as Chimera's "Power of the Desert" convert attribute and neither turned off Chimera buff. So it's all fine to use.

I think what I had happen was Doggo "give rez to all members with a Fire Skill" turned off after I converted Fire skills to Cold using Peace. Then I had no rezzes.

And I just assumed it was the same for Chimera... I guess.

[tardy blade]

wait, so i'm still confused how it works

where is the lightning damage coming from to fill it?

[graceful salmon]

so if I pick chimera and pick up power of desert convert, I should still get the 35%?

[fleet prism]

Yup. That's what happened when I tested - I converted and still had the 35%. I... don't think I recorded a video, tho, unfortunately.

I'll do it again next run and record a video to confirm, if ya want.

[graceful salmon]

last time (a long time ago) it didn't work, but there is a chance that GC changed it and didn't tell anyone in the patch notes

[tardy blade]

that is very interesting

wow this is a big change actually

so convert skills no longer turn it off

[graceful salmon]

I did lose the 35% after going to the next day

[fleet prism]

I still have mine days after using Joy's convert

I'll test again with Chimera's next run

[tardy blade]

Something to note with this build is if you can't get joy then diablo should skip necklace sword for ring ring imo

Because no way of accessing climax

[fleet prism]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-Wz1uVJS3c

[graceful salmon]

so it is a bug with joy?

[fleet prism]

You know what didn't help in that run? I forgot to give Diablo her Enhance Body buffs.

[graceful salmon]

*also smh not getting peace to the team at 5-11 *

[fleet prism]

@graceful salmon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sVtkpzy7Jw

I still have the buff, no clue what happened in your game

[graceful salmon]

does it only happen with chimera acolyte?

that's the only diff that I can think of

[fleet prism]

I'll test tomorrow

[fleet prism]

Still works as main acolyte.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzwAE12vVgQ

[graceful salmon]

so... katsu is cheating

[fleet prism]

Yeah, I don't really know what the difference between your example and mine is. More characters? World 5? Master skills? Clearly something is still counting as Phys in my example, and not in yours, but I have no idea what.

[golden nebula]

can i ask why you take frost mage temperament for diablo when she does not have cold dmg?

[tardy blade]

Frost mage just has good stats

[graceful salmon]

w5 frost mage tho

not the normal one

[tardy blade]

^^

[oak needle]

Can you just run blood bullet instead of giant bullet on cerb and then use diablo lead? that gives you a healing ability for defense formation

her primary doesn't do damage anyways so..?

[tardy blade]

Yes, it worked for me

[oak needle]

oh, but chimera doesn't have access to barrier so you'd be missing out on the 9 res anyways

also why not ruby necklace instead of crystal sword on chimera? is +6 atk and +10% range really that significant after you have all the other ranged bonuses?

oh chaos orb is range

[oak needle]

adding on to world 2 strategy for the above ^ farming team, I don't have item mover unlocked yet, so I put a ring+shield on a random baphomet I found. Her primary is dark+cold which does a big hit when torturing Joy, and I simply replaced baph with Joy once she was done being tortured

[swift junco]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vSv3XUthCxP8AKC9zSMPa8tNQ-6zqdjA8EJ75tcc-NUYZeSKnEJDnBGB1n3UdwFPKxX0v231J7EdAWV/pubhtml?gid=137192293&single=true
second comp i cleared t16 on

[swift junco]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTSl39dUsAWuHfOOJwUdv2kLzMT1hda74B72QjIBd7mKf5HfgKHSteS0rDr4Kf3gYgTd1uLSbDAeqGH/pubhtml?gid=137192293&single=true

[frozen furnace]

Been reading through this post and I've been wondering, how are multi hits considered when doing dps calculations i.e. AOE, penetration, ricochet

[oak needle]

Dps calculation insofar as theorycrafting goes?

[graceful salmon]

I would say that most people don't really take into acount any sort of dps calculation

it's mostly based on preference and how easy it felt for them

[oak needle]

it's not all about maximizing DPS, too