People shouldn’t get banned for reacting on a message

[bitter hull]

they're not gonna discuss that, they need to wait for the admin team

[frozen sentinel]

Probably shouldn't have pinged, my bad

[red pond]

Unless they are user 231944902336970753
They get a pass apparently — only message deletion

[bitter hull]

oh wait sorry i thought you tagged one of the mods for some reason

[gritty basin]

Well... was the code garbage? People post garbage code here all the time. That's kind of the point of posting it here isn't it? To un-garbage it?

[pale rune]

moderators aren't perfect, stuff always falls through the cracks

[frozen sentinel]

Gotcha, thanks. Guess I'll wait and see what happens

[red pond]

A mod read and deleted the message after banning someone earlier today for the usage of the same word

Only difference was who the word was directed at

[frozen sentinel]

Ain't that the truth. Speaking from personal experience

[pale rune]

well, if you are getting that opinion from people who have been banned... there's probably sampling issues there lol
i've had my disagreements with him over random conversations in other servers, i don't consider him my favorite person by any means
but in this server he seems to be a very competent moderator and i've never seen anything egregious from him in that regard
🤷‍♂️

[frozen sentinel]

I see

[bitter hull]

@sweet bronze take a breath my dude, you're not crazy in a lot of what you're saying, but you're running hot as hell and I'm not sure what you're suggesting or what point you're making now (it seems like one person is just kinda being mean to you, which sucks but I'm not sure how it pertains to this)

[pale rune]

there's people here who are just curious due to the drama and don't care one way or the other,
there's people giving actual feedback who are active community members,
and there's reddit tourists that are here just for the popcorn and to be toxic

we aren't blind, everybody here knows which is which

[bitter hull]

@sweet bronze Broooooo please read the conversation back before you launch at me here haha I'm pretty much on your side it just seems like a deep breath moment here. There's things you don't like but if you can't communicate those things to your opposition calmly you're just gonna wind up frustrated as hell and have a bad time

Whaaaat is happening

[pale rune]

Chloe i don't think you are here to be toxic or cause more drama, i just think you were misinformed
the problem of misinformation is it's hard to know when you are affected by it, we've all been there
no big deal, all good

[bitter hull]

oh my gosh I'm sorry, everything-everywhere-all-at-once right now, that was in response to Exiym (I edited in a tag just now)

[pale rune]

no worries

it will blow over in less than 2 days anyways, most people don't really care they just want the popcorn

i think it would be nice if this prompted some revisiting of the rules to have more clarity in the specifics

that's always nice to have

[bitter hull]

Please read my part in this discussion from the beginning dude, you've got the wrong gal, I'm not on the other side of the debate you came here to have

Which kinda makes my point for me. You're heated and firing at your own team. You have reason to be upset but please take a breath and speak with intention so that you have more of a chance to get the outcome you're going for.

yeah, that's me, man... I'm just gonna... I'm not sure how this happened I'm just gonna not with this one

I do get that, I've kinda been fielding people coming in here for the last hour letting them know that's the case so vertx doesn't have to keep doing it...

(not as like a job lol, I've just been here talking anyways and it keeps coming up)

[opal spoke]

@bitter hull
Even I was "on your side". But you were trying to do a discussion here that was pointless and I tried (And failed) to get you to create a place it'd actually be seen

[bitter hull]

but I feel like I had valid points why that likely wouldn't go well, but when I made those points you dipped from the conversation for a bit

[gritty basin]

So, I went and got the context. Looks like you had a question and they answered it, you learned about how the player prefs write to registry and why they shouldn't be used. That all seemed amiable. You posted your full script and asked for advice, and they gave it to you, pointing out the flaws in your code. It looks like they've internalized a few of the conventions without fully understanding the concepts because they couldn't adequately explain that SerializeField also exposes the variables to things like JSONUtility, and when they couldn't quite properly phrase their answer you just kinda... Blew up at em. You solicited feedback, and got some from someone only just a bit more experienced than you, and they just couldn't answer your questions at their skill level and you assumed it was a personal attack?

There might have been context before the player prefs thing, but the reply chain went cold there

Not everyone is gonna have all the answers. Some people have been told truisms and don't quite know the full context. They probably should have been more forthcoming about that.

But for the record, SerializeField exposes the field to all forms of file serialization, which includes the Unity Inspector, but also JSONUtility, Binary Serializer, etc.

[bitter hull]

No I totally get that but am I misunderstanding or did that not happen in another channel? I thought that was somewhere else I was just trying to figure out why that was being brought up here, which is why I was suggesting you try to cool down, because I thought that if I am more on your side than most here, and I can't tell what you're trying to say, that the connection may seem more obvious to you than it is to a third party. I REALLY am not sure how we got off so on the wrong foot here

[gritty basin]

It was another channel. I had to go find it

[bitter hull]

Also to be noted I'm pretty sure you can oddly (in some json libs)
[JsonIgnore] [SerializeField]

[gritty basin]

Yet another albatross from the early party years of Unity 1-4 they're trying desperately to convince people not to use but all the stack overflow questions from 10 years ago keep recommending it

Yep

[fleet agate]

Hello

[fleet agate]

(ping is off)
can confirm, im a tourist lol

[rough raven]

When is the fogsight guy getting demoted 🙏

@vestal dune

Ain't no way this guy deserves to be a mod in the official unity discord

#💻┃unity-talk message

[vestal dune]

because it's a unity discord and people talking about reddit is off topic? he's 100% in the right lol

[rough raven]

@mystic glacier the criticism isn't at the mod team in general but at this specific mod

[rough raven]

Sure but the reason he is punishing and being so strict about it is because it's about him abusing his powers as mod

The issue isn't about if his actions are technically correct or not

But if he is abusing his powers as a moderator

[fleet agate]

He'll probably get banned fellow tourist, come with me, we'll sit back, relax, and eat 🍿

[vestal dune]

I think the reason why LLM generated stuff isn't allowed is because this server is human to human communication otherwise people would just divert to the AI.

[thorn holly]

Regarding the AI chat a bit higher up, I’m not against the use of AI for learning and improving at programming, but if someone comes to the Unity discord server to ask questions, I don’t think they’re gonna be expecting an AI response, because if they were, why come here and not just straight to the LLM?

[rough raven]

hiii

Hello fellow tourist the camaraderie is truly there

[mystic glacier]

Yes. I was talking about this specific mod as well.

[fleet agate]

yeah

[pale rune]

having strict moderation practices is often the best solution to keep an online community as a nice habitable space to be
being lax on moderation means the place gets overpopulated by trolls, low-effort posts and shitty people in general

this has been and will always be the reality of any online space, you may not like it on principle, but rules and enforcement are there for a reason
we all want nice places to be in

[fleet agate]

Im just here with my tub of popcorn to enjoy the show. Enjoying it here live is better than waiting for reddit posts

[mystic glacier]

Wdym..? How can you know if they're abusing their power if their actions are correct then? That doesn't make sense...

[rough raven]

The guy wrote it himself though? In such case why did he tell him that he would ban him next time

Is this even allowed in this server's mod rules to be arbitrary like this

[vestal dune]

not sure as I don't know the full context but if that's truly the case then yeah ig you have a point... but sometimes, it's somewhat obvious to spot AI generated stuff

[mystic glacier]

There is a rule about unconfirmed ai responses.

[pale rune]

rules
arbitrary
are you really asking this?

[rough raven]

A company chairman can crack down on trade unions because they are illegal in the law but is he doing this because he is a very upstanding person to the law or is it because it benefits him personally?

[rough raven]

He is going against the rules of moderators that's my point

By being arbitrary
"I will ban you next time"

[pale rune]

he is not, the LLM guy didn't get banned, only warned
the reaction-spam trolls did get banned

literally following the moderation rules

[pale rune]

that's a warning, a bit harsh-sounding, sure
but that user has been warned/muted before for breaking rules and being annoying and pushing buttons

[rough raven]

I'm not criticizing there being rules or them being strict

This is not my issue madled

[vocal jolt]

i saw it unfold, it wasnt clear at all that it was LLM and i ran a detector on it and it was inconclusive, it might've been a bit too haste to warn the user. as for emoji reactions why not just disable them server wide - they are not needed anyway

[pale rune]

your issue doesn't exist because there is no abuse of power
only miscommunication and context missing
the user has broken rules before and has tested the patience of the moderation team
that mod response may not look "professional", but it didn't come out of the blue

[pale rune]

the mod only fucked up by not adding all the context
but i don't think mods should be expected to do that constantly

[rough raven]

what about this then

[pale rune]

ah yes, banning people saying "ban lgbt" is surely an abuse of power 🙃

[mystic glacier]

It doesn't matter if he's the devil himself and gets orgasm every time he bans someone, as long as it's reasonable and according to rules.

[rough raven]

huh

[vocal jolt]

there was an unproved accusation of the post being an LLM though, that isn't professional no matter how you skin it. the whole emoji troll i agree those people should be muted. they added nothing to the situation.

[rough raven]

(question mark) ((I can't send it for some reason))

[pale rune]

yeah that's a different issue, i'm not familiar enough to give an opinion on moderating unverified AI posts

[vocal jolt]

fair

[rough raven]

Surely there are definitely much better choices for a discord server of this size than a devil who gets an orgasm every time he bans someone

Spelling mistakes my argument is doomed

[pale rune]

but tbh, the user has broken server rules before, probably why the mod didn't give him the benefit of the doubt
repeat offender and all...

[mystic glacier]

Donno. If there isn't any difference, then why pay more...🤷‍♂️

[rough raven]

From what it looks like he is the one wanting to ban someone for reacting him with a pride flag

[rough raven]

Isn't this a bit excessive

[vocal jolt]

isnt the rules defined by the unity company or just the mods on their own discretion because unity has been embracing ai quite a lot in their company seems odd to be so anti ai in the official discord?

[pale rune]

? what
people use the emoji reactions to be hateful and racist/homophobic/etc constantly
the mod banned that user because of that

not the other way around

[vocal jolt]

yeah just disable all emoji reactions server wide imo

less stuff for them to moderate then

[pale rune]

i think emoji reactions are fine, taking them away completely because of a few trolls is probably not nice

[vocal jolt]

are there ways to reduce the reactions to specific emojis like thumbs up and down for example

[pale rune]

no idea, maybe a custom discord bot or something

not familiar with that type of thing

[rough raven]

okay it's fair to punish someone of using gay as an insult but a ban over a reaction? Really?

[vocal jolt]

it isnt the emoji its the fanning of the flames

[pale rune]

part of the rules, reaction-spamming and toxicity are not allowed

plenty of people use emoji reactions without issues, but it's pretty clear when someone is doing it to spam, to be annoying or to be toxic

[rough raven]

fair enough he could have muted him though

[vocal jolt]

maybe but it could have been a repeat offender with a record

[rough raven]

This isn't what I'm arguing against I know it's rule breaking

[pale rune]

apparently the person who got banned for reaction-spam was inactive in the server and only came back to yeah... fan the flames

[rough raven]

okay to be fair this is word of mouth but it seems that fogsight threatened to ban this guy too for criticizing him

Will he also ban me for criticizing him when he gets online ?

[rough raven]

I'm definitely getting cooked for fanning the flames

[vocal jolt]

i've seen fogsight be very lenient to people. i told them about user who was muted in the server was spamming me in DM and fog was lenient so im inclined to believe fog has had run ins with some of those users before he banned them we just dont see know that context

[chilly rampart]

Not gonna sugarcoat it, came here to see the drama first hand. Who in here is getting paid to be here?

[rough raven]

Fr the guy is power tripping hard but staff usually defend mods in cases like these

[pale rune]

yes people doing "ban the gays" with reaction emojis surely is some totally fine thing to do

[rough raven]

I don't know why madled is defending him though he is not staff

Because it didn't happen

[chilly rampart]

Because this seems like an awful lot of stuff to be involved in for free

[pale rune]

the rules about reaction-spam are there for a reason
it makes the server a worse place, breeds toxicity

[rough raven]

@sweet bronze

This is not ban the gays

[pale rune]

you literally posted a screenshot of it happening

ah, another troll i guess

[vocal jolt]

agreed i see this server as the professional entry point for unity, all the other communities are more jokes and less serious. so seeing spam emojis doesn't fit for this server

[rough raven]

So you are just dismissing everything I said using that?

[pale rune]

bye

[rough raven]

Keep on glazing fogsight buddy he is getting demoted either case

It won't matter what you do

[rough raven]

I think they do get paid

[pale rune]

casual "joke" homophobia is still homophobia my man

edgy "jokes" have no place here

i'm not playing this game with you

[rough raven]

Yeah see

Sir makes reasonable arguments

Madled tho is just acting condescending when he can't respond

[chilly rampart]

Yeah it has to be right? I could not be this engaged in something so trivial for free. Happy to spectate tho

[warped cedar]

It's a sequence of emoji's indicating "BAN Pride". I'm sure you guys can understand how this is offensive. Lets not grasp at straws and try to make it non-offensive.

[rough raven]

We aren't arguing that it's not homophobia
But that equating it to ban the gays is a bit of a leap

Wait what

[rough raven]

Oh 💀

[rough raven]

Nvm I didn't see the ban before it

[warped cedar]

I dont understand what you mean. You're unsure if the emojis actually despict the thing that people make it up to be?

[obsidian sparrow]

ya, yall trippin.. lol im just spectating 🍿

[rough raven]

Blindness

[warped cedar]

Oh, so it has to do with that nobody noticed the three emojis before it

[warped cedar]

I just woke up. Its probably going to be a lot of fun to read back this cesspool

[chilly rampart]

So this fog guy, is he a bad guy like the reddit guy said? Or did he just have a bad day?

[warped cedar]

He isn't bad in the slightest. You should not trust Reddit

[rough raven]

He is the Grinch incarnate 🙏

[pale rune]

this thread is the definition of brainrot, it's crazy

[rough raven]

real

[chilly rampart]

So where does the rainbow flag fit in?

[rough raven]

You don't have to be rude yk? You could have just said like @warped cedar that there is a ban behind it

Instead of saying "YoU aRe TroLlS"

[rough raven]

Someone reacted ban the gays for some reason and fog banned them which is fair

[pale rune]

fair lol

[pale rune]

he just reacted a bit harshly towards users that were pushing his buttons or that have previous history of rule-breaking in the server
reddit just trippin'

[chilly rampart]

Ok and are Steve Buscemi and Santa hat lady mad at each other?

[pale rune]

i think most people are just in disagreement with the rules themselves but they know there's no argument there
so they just paint it as "abuse of power"

[bitter hull]

Been around 30 years and I've never seen someone who acts like that once and not the rest of the time... and there's a lot of people weighing in that this is the norm.

[rough raven]

Preach Chloe

[obsidian sparrow]

i've had my dealings with fogsight.. imo he's fair enough 😅 ..
i don't know one way another if the ban was fair.. but typically i see him give pretty strong warnings, people tend to know what they're doing to be met with harsh consequences.. thats all i think back to popcorn 🍿

[pale rune]

you've probably not been around enough online communities if you've never seen a mod overstep a bit when someone is being annoying and shitty on purpose

[bitter hull]

again, the initial ban was a rather small overstep, the reaction to the reaction however...

[pale rune]

tbh he has the patience of a saint to deal with the childish behavior from thousands of people in this server lmao
he is usually pretty lenient on bans and just warns people plenty times before a ban

[bitter hull]

But on the initial point there, if someone is willing to go to an extent, they're willing to go to that extent. "It was just that once" is much more often a lie than not.

[chilly rampart]

I heard this all started about someone asking about croutons and then someone passionately talking about it for 20 minutes is that true?

[pale rune]

what "reaction to the reaction"? he just banned according to the rules
you may not agree with the rules, sure, but that's a different topic

[rough raven]

"spoonfeeding someone an answer is not helping"

[pale rune]

read the server rules, then come back

[bitter hull]

The ones posted on reddit, for starters, my G, you told me to read the context in here so make sure you read the context out there, it's all one conversation. Again, "Squash the rebellion" mode. I can't describe that anymore clearly.

[rough raven]

So true I guess this is the issue with the internet

[bitter hull]

People who are in a dissent-squashin mood aren't typically ever not willing to be

[pale rune]

what "reactions to the reaction"? the hell are you talking about?

[obsidian sparrow]

you tell it brotha ✊ 🤪

[rough raven]

And which rule does this break Mr madled

[bitter hull]

The people who told Fog he was wrong and he responded to them in anger

[pale rune]

can you give me an example?

[obsidian sparrow]

i just said you tell it brotha what more do u want from me

[rough raven]

Why would he not want this threat to be opened?

[bitter hull]

not one that will please you, we've been in this conversation for a bit I know how this is gonna go and I really don't want us to both light our keyboards on fire. I think you know what reaction I'm talking about I've described this pretty clearly

[rough raven]

hi spawn

[bitter hull]

regardless, everyone else knows what I'm talking about so the point is moot

[pale rune]

i ask for clarification, you refuse to clarify
i ask for an example, you refuse to give one
like...

[rough raven]

Which side on the argument do you believe in

[rough raven]

Madled trying not to be condescending challenge (impossible)

[obsidian sparrow]

#1319020501250740315 message @rough raven

[chilly rampart]

The way I'm seeing it is the only ones winning from this are the guys hired to be here and the ones watching this for sport

[rough raven]

Fair enough

[chilly rampart]

If u not getting paid and ur arguing with a discord mod over principles what are u guys doing man

[bitter hull]

You've been hitting me with logical fallacy after logical fallcy dude, I'm a bit exhausted and you want me to list specifics so that you can nitpik. I just don't have energy for that at this point. You can make me seem unreasonable for that but again, everyone else knows exactly what response-to-the-response/reaction-to-the-reaction I'm talking about.

[pale rune]

time to block

[rough raven]

😔

[bitter hull]

makes sense

[pale rune]

literal troll

[rough raven]

Don't call me out jbang

[obsidian sparrow]

really im just lurking now to see if i can peek a leak if they get paid or not 👀

[rough raven]

Madled probably is fog's sugar kitten

[pale rune]

keep fighting the good fight, you are for sure ending the tyrannical dictatorial rule of discord moderators, the rebellion thanks you! 💪

[bitter hull]

Nah I think he's just someone who's been dealing with a lot of people who are way sunk into their beliefs and have their heels dug in, and it's caused him to be the same. To be honest, it happens

[chilly rampart]

Like don't yall got projects or something? Or like a tutorial u can look up? Idk man I think y'all are being worked

[rough raven]

I think a lot of people do be like that

[rough raven]

I'm done with watching tutorials jbang 💔

[rough raven]

When you are arguing with a lot of stubborn people you slowly start to dismiss the opposing view and get tunneled in your opinion like that

[chilly rampart]

I came for drama but this feels like I'm watching the same people argue with shitty customer service reps over the phone for social engagement it's kinda sad.

No offense to the customer service reps tho but yall getting paid so its aight

[vital heart]

I wonder how many people are spectating this/ will see all these messages in the future

[bitter hull]

It's 2am, I've been coding all day, and in the hemoraging industry I'm a part of, one of the major outlets for discussion is debating what is the correct limit for moderators in discord servers. Making sure power is being checked is important in all aspects of society. It was either try to have an intelligent discussion (though we've missed that mark a good bit, it is the internet) about that, or play some fortnite.

[chilly rampart]

Idk man I was expecting someone to dig up someone's personal life or something like something spicy but I guess I hopped on too late

[bitter hull]

XD

bros over there at 127.0.0.1

[vital heart]

I'll play fortnite

[rough raven]

I think I will just play fortnite

[chilly rampart]

I wanted dev Kdot vs Drake but all I got was an argument at the produce section over who took the last kumquat guess I expected too much

[bitter hull]

But look, I get that it's easy to be like "oh it's just discord moderation" but dude, have you ever had someone wield silent power over you and then no one care about it? I honestly hope not, it's kinda the worst

power is power, man 🤷‍♀️ (important comma added, power man was not intended to sound like a megaman bosss)

[rough raven]

Why is jbang criticizing the drama like he is an Asian parent seeing his child's grades

[pale rune]

seems like you have deeply rooted biases due to personal trauma or negative experiences in your life
i suggest you take a step back from this

[rough raven]

You should take a step back from talking buddy

[bitter hull]

Dude I continue to try to talk to you in a civil manner and you keep saying stuff like this cmon

I don't wanna fight you, Jbang can waste his popcorn lol

[chilly rampart]

I just wanna make sure I haven't made any false assumptions. Are u one of the ones being paid here?

[vapid vortex]

I don't want to be the person who suggests moderation for a particular subject but some of the last few comments aren't on topic with server feedback suggestions nor the the channel topic "People shouldn't get banned for reacting on a message". I don't know if they should be identified as "trolling" or whatnot but those comments aren't very useful and making a mess of the thread.

[pale rune]

no lmao, i'm not a mod or staff
i just help people in this community

[obsidian sparrow]

i feel like at some point.. if u don't just stop engaging you're enjoying it

[chilly rampart]

[pale rune]

i usually don't engage with stupid internet drama, i don't know why today caught me offguard
free brainrot i guess lol

[viral mirage]

Where does the idea that mods get paid even comes from?

[chilly rampart]

There are no winners here then

Pitiful. I'm going elsewhere for entertainment

[pale rune]

the winners are the reddit karma-farmers

[bitter hull]

probably not the place to say discussions and debates shouldn't be about winning but :p I said it

[rough raven]

@clever hazel you probably should stop or you will get banned for "trolling"

[rough raven]

You have been talking pretty civily Chloe

[pale rune]

finally you admit why you are here

[rough raven]

The most probably in this thread

[bitter hull]

This showed up on my LinkedIn today, so that's a scary thought I'm gonna elect to just not think about 🙃

[chilly rampart]

I hope y'all get meaningful employment/stay employed, because this whole thread is some broke behavior. Bye everybody

[rough raven]

why is bro back

[bitter hull]

bro it's the game industry, yeah, a lot of us are broke, where you been?

14k layoffs this year and somehow climbing in late december

[warped cedar]

Can you share the post?

[bitter hull]

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/80-lv_unity-unity3d-madewithunity-activity-7275385997498998786-FsaF

[limber venture]

So early such drama 🥱 did @open storm get demoted? Please no llms in your answers. @flint berry What's the hold up

[flint berry]

I think the wrong Tyto was tagged

Hi

[limber venture]

Oh hello

How's the day going

[mossy arrow]

Don't ping people you're not in conversation with, it's against our conduct

if you're just here for drama, it's not wanted

[limber venture]

I'm here for drama

[flint berry]

We balling. Gonna go back to bed. You all have a good night

[mossy arrow]

!kick 188204163648323584 cya then

[limpid iron]

breakthewind was kicked.

[pale rune]

just a heads up, 80lvl are infamous for producing AI-generated slop, stealing content to post as their own and producing a lot of misinformation in general

[bitter hull]

Wasn't aware of that, I followed them on LinkedIn because they're usually just sharing some artist or programmers work

[pale rune]

it's pretty bad, low-effort slop in general even when they make semi-interesting articles

basically engagement-farming on twitter to generate traffic

the only decent thing i have to say about them is that they interview a lot of indie devs and 3D artists / tech artists

[warped cedar]

Notice how this post is extremely biased against Fogsight and proceeds to give absolutely no context other than examples of apparently admin abuse? Which, mind you, by itself only consists of screenshots giving very little context apart from the actions that were taken.

[bitter hull]

oh woah hang on let me be clear I wasn't showing any support for their full article which I did not read, I was just pointing out that I only follow gamedevs and stuff on LinkedIn and that this had leaked into my LinkedIn feed

[warped cedar]

No worries, I just felt like voicing my opinion. Unfortunately this all happened whilst I was asleep

[bitter hull]

(man, I guess they might be a bit upset if they knew I was never clicking on their content 🤭 I'm sure it gives them some "this user lingered" engagement)

[warped cedar]

I've been in this server long and active enough to tell you that this is the first time something like this is even happening, and it's all build off misinformation.

[pale rune]

because they know that sensationalism and outrage drives clicks, it's literally by design

[warped cedar]

Yeah. Notice this chat is now suddenly very quiet now that all the gaslighters left?

[bitter hull]

it's almost 3am and I don't think it was sudden :p

[warped cedar]

There has never been a problem. Just one user that got a justified ban and is now trying to point it to the moderators

This server already has enough trolls joining. I think we can leave it with those and not have even more

[bitter hull]

aw naw dude don't take the bait! XD

[pale rune]

i love misrepresenting facts! very poggers

[bitter hull]

I was actually talking to exiym for responding to a solid "There has never been a problem" but it does work in both directions here imo :p

[warped cedar]

Also, the ones that are actively defending the moderators are the ones that are actually active on this server and helping people. Go figure.

It really doesn't take much thought to understand this whole controversy was dumb from the beginning

[bitter hull]

Most people upset with fogsight aren't upset with the moderation team in general from the time that I've been here (which granted hasn't been the whole time)

[warped cedar]

Upset on what? Nothing happened

[merry wharf]

I'm not banned

[warped cedar]

Because Reddit never gave the whole situation any thought either and just decides to find the most convenient thing to gaslight

[pale rune]

most of the people you see rage-posting on reddit about this are either users that have never interacted with this community or users that have been banned for toxicity from here, go figure, maybe take what they say with a grain of salt

[warped cedar]

Again, nothing happened. That was not even the reason that sparked this whole discussion

[bitter hull]

Right but more to my point, even rowdy angry people who are mostly venting are mostly not going at the team from what I've seen as much as being upset with one specific persons actions

[pale rune]

if "being on top of reddit" is your barometer of truth and reality...
we are cooked... 💀

[bitter hull]

There's certainly been some "why is this not handled yet" which can maybe be valid depending on how they approach it

[pale rune]

because they now have a scapegoat to get angry at, rather than some esoteric faceless moderation team

[bitter hull]

Well they did close it, but again I don't think the ban itself is the reason this is blowing up

[pale rune]

well yes of course, the person who got banned posted a misleading screenshot to rowdy up the masses of angry redditors

did you really expect them to be honest and upfront about what happened?

silly you :P

[merry wharf]

I wish people would stop trying to imply or suggest that I'm a troll. I'm a long-time Unity user, professional software developer, and someone who took time out of their day to try to help a new user and got threatened with a ban for it.
The reason for the Reddit post was because I didn't know where else to turn to raise this issue and get taken seriously. I like Unity, I like our community, and I genuinely believe this kind of "moderation" goes against everything Unity stands for.

[pale rune]

i don't think anything "needs to be handled", it was just a miscommunication from a mod and the misinformation from the community

[merry wharf]

The emoji guy is... Unfortunate, I agree

[pale rune]

i don't think people are suggesting you are a troll, the other guy is
you however have a history of breaking server rules and pushing boundaries and be a bit annoying
i don't think you are doing it with malice, just... you know, we all have our moments i guess

[obsidian sparrow]

i also agree with the way u responded.. ur "just to be clear" statement woulda been exactly what i would have said.

also like u said.. emote guy. idk

[merry wharf]

By breaking the rules you mean posting a gif in 2021? Took a break from this server after that.

[pale rune]

@merry wharf but you definitely knew what you were doing when you posted your own inflamatory reddit post tho...

[bitter hull]

Honestly closing it and leaving it up with no way for anyone to post an update that the mods were waiting on admins was a really frustrating move for them to make.

Not that they should be coordinating with the discord server, it's just unfortunate that's how it went down

[obsidian sparrow]

if u look back at other moderation posts.. they've said thats not the place for it and closed other ones too

[pale rune]

posting a gif in 2021
posting repeated gif reactions, pushing buttons of some mods, etc
but sure

[merry wharf]

Yes, I was very upset. I think we ought to foster a community where people feel safe to ask questions, and experienced community members are not punished for contributing.

[warped cedar]

Don't act like a victim, you have been most unhelpful in the conversations [I was part in](#💻┃code-beginner message)

[pale rune]

Fogsight's reaction probably looked a bit harsh, but you did not get banned, and you got told what you did incorrectly
the AI thing is like whatever...

[warped cedar]

Again, an obvious two sides to a story

[obsidian sparrow]

i do see 1 problem.. in all this.. the whole "let me make sure that my explaination doesn't contain well written comments or i'll get accused of using chatGPT" thing is a bit ridiculous.. i don't have a solution

[pale rune]

yeah the AI thing is hard to enforce i don't really have an opinion there or whatever

the mod literally replied later with:

I was about to call out specifically your spoonfeeding behaviour, but your reaction reminded me of your previous trolling tendencies. Which resulted into an out of context ban warning.
I will try better to include full context next time.

[warped cedar]

I very much doubt the majority of people in here really bother to understand the context in here anyway

[pale rune]

not really, if you are familiar with this server policies and how people are expected to help others

you are new here, so i get it

[warped cedar]

Also, was their initial answer just spoonfeeding answers as well? I can totally see it being removed since it is incredibly unhelpful to beginners

Spoonfeeding answers just leads to more bugs and they will learn absolutely nothing from it

[bitter hull]

is spoonfeeding in the community conduct somewhere or?

seems like a pretty niche rule for an Official Unity Discord

[warped cedar]

I doubt it, but it's incredibly unhelpful

[pale rune]

you can't have a server that gives high-quality help to its users if you don't enforce quality standards
it might seem "absurd" to the people outside, but trust me, you don't want a software dev community to allow low-effort posts
and there's a reason why the majority of big programming communities enforce the same practices

:me when i lie on the internet

the mods are trying to make people give better help

[warped cedar]

You could argue it falls under this

[bitter hull]

You've got one of the most beginner-friendly engine that exists and their official discord is deleting posts and being harsh because a user new to the discord didn't help out a someone else new to game dev correctly? That just seems... tense...

[warped cedar]

Because this is exactly what will happen

[obsidian sparrow]

When the guy asked to see the code again thats when I instantly knew this was gonna be a bigger deal..

[warped cedar]

Again missing the point of deleting these messages

[pale rune]

if i really need to explain this to you... all of this is in #📖┃code-of-conduct you are free to go read it if you care enough

[merry wharf]

If you're a young person, new to Unity, I want to both teach you about whatever I can, but also unblock you so you can go on with whatever first project you're tinkering with.
Showing how they can go on, ("spoonfeeding"), also means the person stays motivated and continues their journey, whereas telling them to go figure it out themselves risks turning them off of development all together.
I think its important to recognize when you're dealing with young people getting their toes wet vs people actively on their learning journey.

[bitter hull]

That's fair but where is this at? I just came from #📖┃code-of-conduct

[warped cedar]

#854851968446365696

A separate channel for coding specifically, where everything happened BTW

[bitter hull]

okay well I can't say that's not situationally valid

[pale rune]

welcome to an educational discord server, if you want to shitpost, go somewhere else

plenty of other unity-centric discord communities that allow shitpost, low-effort posting and off-topic discussions
instead of being annoying and complaining about this one, go to those ones

[atomic meteor]

It's worth mentioning that several game Dev news sites picked up on this drama, so to put it bluntly, a moderator should be more mindful of the fact they represent an entity larger than themselves when they decide to have a power trip

[obsidian sparrow]

Unity Developer Community even has VC 👀

[celest cave]

It's really not like that, Fog is a prick, but the strict rules are for a reason.

[pale rune]

no power trip, just miscommunication

[atomic meteor]

You've likely caused unity yet more PR damage for to quote one outlet 'dictator-like moderation'

[pale rune]

doubt

[warped cedar]

Showing how they can go on, ("spoonfeeding"), also means the person stays motivated and continues their journey, whereas telling them to go figure it out themselves risks turning them off of development all together.

You are forgetting the part where the majority of beginners have no debugging skills and/or knowledge on how to program in general, and spoonfeeding the answers just gives them a reason to copy paste code into their application with no knowledge on how it works. This helps absolutely nothing with staying motivated, because it will just cause more issues and bugs. Also, due to the lack of debugging skills and the language in general, they will be forced to come back with the same code and repeat the cycle of asking for help.

It's not a problem to not understand the reaction that spoonfeeding answers give, but you are confidently posting like it's a good thing without learning from your mistake. Perhaps give it a thought.

[pale rune]

cool, then go somewhere else?

damn you are really acting like a child

blocked

[warped cedar]

Are you surprised?

[pale rune]

not really

they'll be gone tomorrow and will never participate in this community again anyways

[warped cedar]

Just for your information; this server is to receive help regarding Unity. It's not a playground

[vestal dune]

At this point, this channel isn’t for negotiations, it’s to let steam out huh?

[pale rune]

this just has become an off-topic containment zone because we'd rather have this than have toxicity spill into the other channels

not the first time it's happened

[warped cedar]

Hey, if that's the conclusion you take from all of this then I guess no fun is allowed huh?

[celest cave]

I disagree, you seem to be forgetting about the development part of "Game development", it's still a job for many people.

[warped cedar]

And if moderators weren't strict, none of these channels would be usable as it would be filled with unhelpful and off-topic posts

I don't expect people that have only been in this server for a few days to understand

[pale rune]

if moderation wasn't this strict (imho it should be more strict) this community would be a horrible dumpster

you think you want "haha lol let us shitpost and be chill and have fun" but you really don't want that in the long term

[obsidian sparrow]

adsense sucks 🤪

[celest cave]

I have mixed feelings about it, I agree with the rules again memes and shit posting, but on the other hand, Fog is like a angry Chihuahua barking at everything. So yes and no.

Yeah, ban for reactions is very much over the top I agree

[obsidian sparrow]

that almost 90% of the time doesnt happen

[pale rune]

-gifs/memes/image reactions are against rules-
-user breaks those rules-
-moderator does its function-
D: why did you give a warning to that user?

[obsidian sparrow]

even obnoxious third-party channel emojis are tolerated 95% of the time.. just sayin

[pale rune]

this never has and never will happen, i can assure you

[vestal dune]

Reactions are fine, just not this kind of stuff

[pale rune]

🤡 "haha i got you, your fragile ego has been defeated, snowflake"

[celest atlas]

Just move everything to IRC - there's no superfluous things that can distract from being a serious place.

[obsidian sparrow]

IRC is still a thing?

[celest atlas]

very much so!

[obsidian sparrow]

daaaang...

[celest cave]

As much as I agree with the first two, I think a reaction is over the top, am I saying they shouldn't enforce it? No, it's just my opinion.

[pale rune]

you've been going on a multi-hour tirade about how banning people for annoying emoji reactions is some "fragile ego clown behavior"
cmon man...

[lapis cedar]

Reactions are not banned, it is in the server rules. Overusing reaction are however, reacting "Ban Fog" is not overusing reaction to any extend of the word

[celest atlas]

Some leeway in these strict rules would go a long way to foster a welcoming and great community, that's my two cents.

[pale rune]

yeah the enforcement thing is probably debatable, but sometimes it gets out of hand so i understand why moderation can be a bit overzealous on that sense

[lapis cedar]

Bunch is lard asses with no power irl gotto use theire discord power to feel something

[pale rune]

we are talking about different kinds of reactions, if you actually read the rules you would know

cool

[lapis cedar]

I did read the rules, enlighten me.

[surreal ruin]

Here's a suggestion.
Let the moderators take one day off and see the results.
I would expect this :-
The server get flooded with irrelevant spam and troll posts
The 'serious' people leave the server in droves
Result
The server becomes useless as a place to get help
Is that what anyone wants?

[celest cave]

Yeah the thing is, Fog has been acting up for a looooong time.

I understand a mod having a bad day then and there, but this guy is on horses that are so high he could drink water from the clouds.

[pale rune]

no

[celest atlas]

To be fair, moderators should be there to knock down a peg people who actively spam or troll (intent is key). Denying features that are a part of Discord is not a good way to combat that - it's the lazy way.

[bitter hull]

Usually things are listed as rules just in case they need to be acted on. Things here aren't that strict, this is just a perfect storm situation with some bad messaging, a couple bad actors, and some bad timing.

[pale rune]

eh, i've had my disagreements with him on other servers for different reasons
but here he is a pretty good mod
don't let your personal experience cloud what's actually happening tho
he's one of the most active mods, that's why it probably looks like he is trigger happy

[bitter hull]

This is my thing is seeing how he responded and the plethora of people checking in to say "yeah this is how he is"

[pale rune]

i'd rather have a good mod that is slightly rude than a bad mod that is super nice and friendly

[bitter hull]

"he's one of the most active mods, that's why it probably looks like he is trigger happy"
I find that universally, the most trigger happy people tend to be some of the most active

[celest atlas]

Slightly rude is an understatement and not the issue. Mods should be as objective as possible.

[bitter hull]

Same but that doesn't seem to be the case here to me

[pale rune]

correlation != causation

[celest cave]

If you say so, I have had and witnessed very different experiences.

[lapis cedar]

Yes. Go on king! Like we see from reddit, mods who manage multiple communities are normally the good ones, and are never power hungry losers.

[pale rune]

you've literally been in this server for 5 hours, you can't really say if moderation here is good or not
like... what

[summer onyx]

Damn you really hit the nail on the head. Now maybe those "lard asses" as you put it will take their manufactured drama somewhere else so this discord can go back to how it's been for years

[pale rune]

i don't want to moderate any internet community

i just want the places i hang out in to be nice

[celest atlas]

I understand tough moderation, but a little bit of tact would go a long way to build a good relationship with the community - that's all I'm saying.

[celest cave]

Yes and I am one of them, but I don't have a problem with the rules except for the reactions, the way it is designed is for people to learn, not post garbage, so it's understandable.

[pale rune]

you are all just here for drama and for the kicks, don't play dumb, you all don't care about "good or bad moderation"
you are literally here just to argue

[bitter hull]

Technically I've been here for 4 years, but yeah I'm not really active here. That said, I feel like I've known Fog my whole life cause that power-going-to-his-head was textbook

[celest atlas]

That's a sad generalization.

[pale rune]

i've been here for 5 years helping people and contributing to the community, but nice try

[warped cedar]

Notice how it's still the ones that joined today that are actively trying to gaslight the situation

[pale rune]

i've been here because i care about this community enough that it saddens me seeing all these weirdos trying to coopt it for some random internet drama

[warped cedar]

For what it's worth, I'm glad it's contained in this thread

[pale rune]

yup

[celest cave]

That's very diminishing of the bigger issue.

[bitter hull]

Yeah this dude has been on it all night #1319020501250740315 message

[celest atlas]

Not everyone - some are trying to let cooler heads prevail. There's a middle road here.

[pale rune]

you've posted giant walls of text for hours, not one to talk probably

[celest atlas]

There's no need to pick sides, we should be working together to see how we can improve things.

[warped cedar]

That's the fun part, there is nothing to improve. This server has been fine for 5 years

[lapis cedar]

Gaslight lol stop throwing around words you don't know what it means.

[warped cedar]

The way it gets improved is when all these people that stir up misinformed controversy leave again

[bitter hull]

literally this dude hitting us with the "stop gaslighting" in the same breath as "there is no war in ba sing se"

[pale rune]

at this point i think the mods should add a 30 minute slowmode to this channel

[celest atlas]

This situation has clearly deteriorated and degenerated.

[lapis cedar]

Poeple joined becouse they saw injustice, not to twist whatever narrative you think they are.

[pale rune]

:me when i lie on the internet

[celest cave]

I agree.

[warped cedar]

If you are not actively contributing in this thread then you'd see the rest of the server is doing just fine

[bitter hull]

cough on that note https://discord.com/channels/489222168727519232/1319190043688173608 I did make a post over here about how if the mod team was empowered to make some level of announcement it might help situations like this require less containment

[summer onyx]

Yes, and that is purely because of the reddit drama tourists

[thorn holly]

I agree personally. Never had an issue myself. Though some other users online might not agree as I saw a few claims regarding Fog.

[celest atlas]

People should understand that there are rules on this server (and they're not protected by free-speech laws), but at the same time some mods can have a little bit more tact and professionalism in how they handle things.

[bitter hull]

I mean it's easy to say there's never been a problem if you've never been affected by the problem

[celest atlas]

It's as simple as that.

[warped cedar]

If mods were not as strict in here every single channel would be a cesspool of unhelpful messages. This server exists for help, and we expect you use it for that and only that.

If that's too hard for you, it's time to leave

[celest atlas]

I didn't say not strict

[pale rune]

what message did i delete? you may have trouble finding it, but i didn't delete anything

[bitter hull]

not trying to call you out or anything btw I'm just saying, discord servers are a large public space, it's not hard for an issue to go unnoticed by a large team

[celest atlas]

Don't try to paint me like I'm the bad guy, I'm trying to see if there's a compromise here.

[bitter hull]

I don't believe it

[thorn holly]

Yes I agree, just because I never experienced a problem isn’t to say there isn’t one, just pointing out another POV.

[warped cedar]

Don't feel like you should be the one that needs to fix the situation. There's nothing to fix and I don't see why you would even contribute to this situation like any other person

[celest atlas]

Why are you here contributing, then?

[celest cave]

Because people clearly have a problem with Fog, and understandably so.

[warped cedar]

Because there is a big difference between somebody who has been in this server for 5 years and somebody who has been in it for less than 24 hours

I think one has a lot more knowledge over the "issues" in this server than the other

Spoilers: There are none if you are not being a troll (or unhelpful!)

[snow elm]

@open storm is the reason why I switched to Godot Engine. Sad but true

[bitter hull]

a conversation we can read is a conversation we can read though

[celest atlas]

I'm not talking about "issues", I'm talking about a singular issue of a tactless mod.

[pale rune]

tbh this is the first time i've seen people complain about his moderation practices
and seems like the complaints aren't really about his moderation, but rather that some of you don't like him personally

[warped cedar]

Something you came to conclude from the little time you spend in here? Don't act like you have any knowledge on the matter. You had no idea who Fogsight was a day ago.

So again, I don't see why you would be open to solve anything. There is nothing to solve

[bitter hull]

Listen, y'all. When everyone tells you you have a problem, you can disagree on what it is, but what's pretty fucking certain is that there's a problem

[celest atlas]

It's funny that you think you know who I am and how long I've been here. If I've been here before and for how long.

[celest cave]

No dude, I've had bad experiences with him for a few years, why would I have my opinion on him otherwise? And people coming and talking about him in the same way I do should be telling of a bigger issue.

[celest atlas]

You know what they say about assuming things.

[warped cedar]

Ah yes, a short period in 2021. I'm sure you are very familiar with how the server works

[bitter hull]

They say "DON'T DO IT MAN. DON'T DO IT I SWEAR TO GOD MAN I SWEAR TO GOD" that's what my friends always say about it

[vestal dune]

1. Switching engines purely because you dislike someone using it is very based and isn’t a smart decision an engineer makes.

2. Why are you in this discord then?

[celest atlas]

On this account, yeah. :)

[lapis cedar]

No ones even knows Fog on a personal level, how can it be a personal vandetta then??
Jesus christ your coping so hard right nkw

[bitter hull]

Like you guys are literally deflecting in any direction available

[warped cedar]

Oooh, the "I have another account in this server" card

[lapis cedar]

It is 100% about moderation practices

[pale rune]

how do you have "experiences with him for years" if you only have 140 messages in this server?

[warped cedar]

Again, notice how the ones actively defending the situation are the ones who are actually active

[celest cave]

Not the only account I have?

[celest atlas]

If this is how you treat people who are only trying to help and find a compromise, then it's clear that you're set in your ways. Sad to see, but it is what it is.

[pale rune]

what's your other account(s)? i'm curious to see moderation actions on it, because i'm smelling you aren't being completely honest

[bitter hull]

Also not to jump back a bit but Exiym I need to say this was totally out of line dude

[bitter hull]

So the people defending the situation are the ones who have already felt comfortable enough being in this environment on a regular basis? So probably the ones least affected by the situation? Yeah, actually that makes perfect sense to me :p

[celest atlas]

survivorship bias

"It hasn't happened to me, so there's no issue!"

[celest cave]

I am, whether you like it or not, and I do not owe you those informations, kindly.

[bitter hull]

Nah, I'm not sure exactly what you were getting at there, but it felt creepy

[pale rune]

people who have multiple discord accounts usually are up to no good, but that's just me i guess 🤷‍♂️

[celest atlas]

lmao

day of the crappiest takes possible, I see

[summer onyx]

This is code for "I am evading a ban on another account and don't want to reveal that because it was 100% justified and I want to play outrage drama with all the other reddit kids"

[pale rune]

that's not the same as having alts for the same server

[celest cave]

No, this is code for "I don't owe you anything"

[bitter hull]

so basically what you're saying is "if you have nothing to hide what are you scared of?" I'm sure no one has written lengthy articles on the exact topic of that fallacy there

[pale rune]

you are the same guy saying that doing homophobic emoji reactions is "not that bad"
so i'm not surprised lmao

[celest atlas]

Man, I really hope you guys are getting paid for all this modwashing you're doing. Otherwise, it's just sad

[thorn holly]

I’m not saying this is the case, as I wouldn’t know, but there is a possibility the other user might have just lost their old account, and had to make a new one.

[pale rune]

modwashing, new buzzword just dropped poggers

[celest atlas]

Pretty good, eh?

[summer onyx]

That's not at all what I said, but you know that considering you've been willfully misinterpreting what people have been saying for hours now

[pale rune]

i suspect a random user that is seemingly disgruntled with a moderator using a new account with barely any activity probably doesn't have the cleanest of records on their previous accs 🙃

[bitter hull]

oh I'm skewing your words, you didn't skew @celest cave's words? XD

[celest atlas]

You suspect a lot of things

[opal viper]

people are definitely actively reading through this thread. I keep getting notifications about reactions to my messages from last night lmao, I'm glad this post is getting the publicity it deserves. may Foglight be removed as a moderator

[bitter hull]

don't bring that up it scares me XD

[lapis cedar]

It's not like people are scared of being banned, after it's evident the mods here are power hungry dogs.

[celest atlas]

No, Fog should not be removed as moderator. Just tone it down a notch, Jesus.

[lapis cedar]

Mental dissonance goes crazy

[summer onyx]

Name one thing that someone was wrongfully banned for

[bitter hull]

problem is people who don't know that they should have HAD it turned down, are usually only willing to turn it down when they're being watched

[celest cave]

Quite literally, the hypocrisy is amazing.

[lapis cedar]

Banned / warned same wool different socks or whatever

[celest atlas]

Who watches the watchmen kind of thing, eh? Still, it's better to just let everyone cool off and start over, imo

[thorn holly]

Well Fawful’s account goes back to 2022, so I wouldn’t call it a new account. Activity wise though, I wouldn’t know if they’ve read more than they’ve written, so I can’t comment on that.

[bitter hull]

and remove mod status the next time there's a reddit tidal wave? I don't know about all that

[celest atlas]

I think this is where Masnick's Impossibility Theorem comes in.

[pale rune]

i love how all the users that joined on December 19th 2024 with zero message history somehow have deep knowledge of the ins and outs of moderation and rules of this server
surely totally organic interactions 🙃

[summer onyx]

So there weren't any wrongful bans and you're outraged that someone received a warning?

[celest atlas]

Fog is not the first nor will they be the last mod who acted without tact.

[bitter hull]

I totally agree, but the way I see it, the longer you keep around power-hungry people (and they so rarely go from overusing power to not overusing power) the further from that imposisble ideal you're gonna get

[celest atlas]

It's not a totally unique situation that you had to be here for 5 years to understand it.

[celest cave]

You rightfully so wouldn't know, but I did, and let's assume I'm just trying to create fire here, what about the other people having the exact same issue with this specific mod?

[lapis cedar]

OmegaFoamy got banned for speaking out for one, 4 others too

[celest atlas]

When someone says "just back off a bit", you won't even hear it.

[pale rune]

tbh the function of a moderator is not to have tact, but to enforce the rules in a good way and keep the place civil and clean

[summer onyx]

Being a redditor, you surely know what brigading is and how it's not organic interactions?

[celest atlas]

The function of a good moderator is to have tact and foster a good relationship with the community

[opal viper]

he was moderating his own thread of people determining if his actions deserved him being removed as a moderator. I watched him ban 3 people for reacting "Ban Fog" in the very thread, along with being downright condescending to people, cherry picking his responses to try starting fights (including with me in particular). hell, people were arguing over whether or not anyone "actually agreed with Fogsight" so I started a poll, which got 12 votes against him and 0 votes for him, which was quickly mysteriously deleted

[bitter hull]

No, they're representing the official unity discord server. The function of a moderator is absolutely to have some level of tact. Can they respond perfectly all the time? No, but that is part of their responsibilities.

[thorn holly]

I think someone was banned for reacting with F O and G on a message right after the letters B A and N, for spam. I don’t know if I’d say that’s a wrongful ban, but I don’t know if I’d call it a rightful one either.

[pale rune]

those are just extras, which are nice to have of course

[celest atlas]

No, they are necessary for a healthy community.

[celest cave]

That's a very narrow view, your role is basically not to turn the server into a shit show, and guess what.

[summer onyx]

Someone came from reddit specifically to start flaming shit by spamming reactions. That is not an unjustified ban

[celest atlas]

It's the same as good policing - you can arrest and beat the crap out of people and you'd be doing your job. But fostering relationships with the community is what good policing is.

[pale rune]

i haven't really seen him constantly be out of touch or rude to people
and neither have you because you've been in this server for less than 1 day

[celest atlas]

And it goes a long way.

[summer onyx]

Yes, let's just ignore all the actual context so we can be outraged

Nobody except the reddit post you came here from

[pale rune]

all of you new people are literally making assumptions basing it off of 3rd hand information from a drama reddit post with zero context
i'm not surprised... but i expected better from software devs, honestly

[warped cedar]

You can twist it to the situation you think is happening here. I have helped people without any issues for multiple years and nothing is wrong with this "environment"

[celest cave]

But I have, and others have, given the very existence of this thread, your words aren't veto.

[warped cedar]

I also don't expect new users to understand that considering they come from the idea that moderators in here are toxic and unfair

[celest atlas]

What's the context then? Was fog justified in banning for a reaction emoji? Were they bullied?

[bitter hull]

God, this just infuriates me about society, I don't know how to get around this it's in every situation:

1. Power structure screws up, and it goes too far
2. People complain about it and one of them goes too far
3. A defense pops up saying "well you're just emotional" so the problem gets ignored

[pale rune]

you are literally the only one who has been in this server for a couple years that said that
all the others are 1-day joins

[celest atlas]

Did they feel threatened?

[thorn holly]

The person I’m referring to was supposedly here for longer than just today, bendgk. But I do agree that there are plenty of toxic folks coming in from Reddit and being fairly unhelpful regarding the topic.

[pale rune]

i'm sorry you can go back and read the whole thread, if you care enough

[lapis cedar]

You know your sniffing insane amounts of copium when your first reaction is "hurr durr reddit trolls" and not simple cause and effect.

If Fog didnt act the they way he did, there wouldt be any backlash. Summarizing it to "trolls" is like putting your head in the sand until the danger is gone.

[celest atlas]

Right.

[warped cedar]

Is this a genuine question? Do you have no idea why you are here? It just shows how irellevant these discussions are. Or are you interested in what others think is happening?

[summer onyx]

Yes, they were active in the discord as recently as seven months ago until they came here to start shit today.

[pale rune]

they are literally here just to argue and entertain themselves
they aren't interested in context, or feedback, or making the community better

[obsidian sparrow]

people have to keep complaining about it.. eventually it can't be overlooked.. we've seen something like that happen here recently

[celest atlas]

Neither are you, apparently.

[pale rune]

lmao

[warped cedar]

Not sure why I even try, to be honest. I'd be happier if everybody just got banned since I very much doubt any of them have even touched Unity

[celest atlas]

Yeah, you're that type of person.

[pale rune]

it's just the flavor of the day, tomorrow they'll move onto the next reddit drama

[celest atlas]

"Just ban everyone who disagrees" .

[warped cedar]

Aren't you cute

[summer onyx]

Are you not here as part of the group of people calling for a moderator whom you've likely never interacted with directly and you only saw out of context screenshots of to be removed?

[warped cedar]

Again totally misrepresenting the message. I'm not surprised tbh

[bitter hull]

Like, can two things not be true? Can we not admit that

1. There are lots of people here who are just angry and venting about a perceived injustice

and at the same time

2. Some injustice DID take place here and a serious discussion should be had about this particular persons mod status?

[celest atlas]

"I'd be happier if everybody just got banned since I very much doubt any of them have even touched Unity" - you.

[pale rune]

"perceived injustice" != actual injustice

[bitter hull]

I know! I worded it that way to agree with you on that!

[lapis cedar]

Like i just said, this is simple cause and effect. Stop coping so hard lol

[warped cedar]

If you have no reason to be here, I would rather see you banned and/or leave since you are only here to stir controversy. Seems reasonable to me chief

[celest atlas]

Eh, I've got better stuff to do. I hope y'all figure this out.

[warped cedar]

Don't hit your head on the way out

[celest atlas]

:)

[summer onyx]

Do you understand that the cause is people farming outrage on reddit because someone got justifiably banned?

[celest cave]

Forgot about the guy that left Unity for godot? Others people which I don't remember have spoken about this too.

I'm trying my hardest to understand you, but you realize that because you haven't seen (which I doubt) or haven't had arguments with Fog doesn't disqualify the miscontent of people here, yes?

[pale rune]

@bitter hull no injustice occurred, stop painting this as some sort of righteous crusade against tyranny, a mod got annoyed at a user and replied in an impolite manner
jesus christ grow up, i'm beginning to think you are all actual children

[pale rune]

lmao if you took that Godot message seriously i have a bridge to sell you

[bitter hull]

There ARE people who are here for little to no reason, or who don't fully understand why they're here... but so many people showing up and you literally think ALL of them are just completely ingenuine and know nothing about anything that pertains to this? There's some pretty cut and dry attitudes and scenarios here.

[warped cedar]

Oh no, a single guy left for Godot

[lapis cedar]

5 people got banned for reacting to "ban fog" ONCE. Is that justified? The cause is Fog being a power hungry hippo, the effect is the outrage.

It's pretty simple.

[summer onyx]

You mean like the post specifically calling for a moderator to be removed that caused everyone to jump into this discord to feign outrage?

[warped cedar]

Citation needed

[pale rune]

bruh, you don't even understand why YOU are here, give me a break

[warped cedar]

Are we just making shit up at this point?

[pale rune]

of course we are

[bitter hull]

I fully do, I understand you don't like me and you think I'm a troll, but I'm actually a whole ass human being as it turns out

[summer onyx]

You and everyone else are here because of that call to remove fogsight, no?

[warped cedar]

Why are you here then?

[pale rune]

i don't think you are a troll, i do think you've had bad personal experiences with other people that are clouding your perspective

[warped cedar]

Do you even know what Unity is?

[celest cave]

You see the way you act and respond to people? If you were a mod you would get the same shit, Fog is having right now.

[pale rune]

they are here to "remove a mod" from a community they don't even participate in from a piece of software they don't even use
this is hilarious

[pale rune]

weak attempt, try again

[lapis cedar]

I have 2 published games, both built with unity , but sure

[warped cedar]

Good! Now use the server for what its meant for and use it for help if you need it. You will quickly figure out there's really no issues here as long as you use it for its purpose

[bitter hull]

There are communities within communities. I may not be a longstanding active member of this discord in particular but I AM an independent gamedev who's been using Unity for 8 years and I'm in pretty much all the Unity discords. So, especially since it keeps being brought up that this guy moderates for multiple discords, this is important to me.

[celest cave]

No attempt needed, you are doing the chores for me, thanks.

[obsidian sparrow]

Quack!, i'll see myself out.. yall have fun.. g/l

[bitter hull]

#1319020501250740315 message that's certainly not what you've said thus far

[thorn holly]

In all fairness, I feel like most people who see that reddit post are likely gonna be familiar with Unity. Don’t think Reddit would recommend that subreddit randomly to that many people.

[pale rune]

you aren't a "longstanding active member", you aren't even a member at all
like... cmon, stop pretending you know what happens in here

[pale rune]

ah yes, purposely misreading, at this point i'm not even sure if you are actually just trolling

[warped cedar]

Luckily not the only issue I was pointing out
I'm glad at least one of them don't apply to you

[bitter hull]

Aw you're right probably some top secret stuff no other discord has or does ever. People who overreach with power are always so clever and creative there's no way you could ever see it without at least like 2 years of server activity.

[pale rune]

anyways i'm getting a bit toxic now, i'll just stop reading this thread because the outsiders coming in here are legit something else
i don't enjoy arguing in circles with random people

bye, have fun y'all

[warped cedar]

Oh I wasn't really taking it serious anymore myself. I suppose this is a nice moment to wrap it up

[thorn holly]

Yea I feel like this thread’s hostility has been slowly increasing over the last few hours

[warped cedar]

My controversial side is known to stir up some interesting discussions 👵

But I think I have procrastinated enough

[summer onyx]

The call to action was literally, and I quote verbatim "I'm calling for Fogsight to be removed from the moderation team"
Just because this call to action does not specifically say "go to the discord and troll" does not suddenly mean this isn't brigading

[thorn holly]

Lmao the grandma emoji 😭

[bitter hull]

Idk it's been pretty hostile the whole time

[celest cave]

Real question, why do you think that is.

[thorn holly]

Maybe it could be represented like this:
📈📉📈📉📈

[bitter hull]

Bethesda stocks?

Poor Bethesda, I really just kinda chose a studio name there lol

[summer onyx]

Why do I think people flooding in from another site to uselessly pile on to a situation they barely have context for is brigading? Gee, I wonder

[thorn holly]

Lmao

[celest cave]

Answer my question, and remember there is no ill will behind it.

[summer onyx]

Was that seriously not enough of an answer?

[celest cave]

That wasn't an answer and you know it

[bitter hull]

Okay no but this isn't wrong but I think about this all the time like:

Let's say you're a politician, you get a million messages about the latest political issue pushing you to vote a certain way on a certain bill or proposition. Now, you know people are messaging you cause someone did this insta campaign telling people to. How annoying...

But like... would you really assume all those people were just wrong? It's certainly not the grassroots naturally-formed response it's made out to be, but shrugging it off all together isn't a super reasonable option

[summer onyx]

Okay, since your simple mind can't extrapolate information: I think it is brigading because people are flooding in from another site to pile on to a situation they barely have context for.

[warped cedar]

Even if it's not explicitly mentioned in the Reddit post, simply posting is going to cause a flood of people to do this exact thing. It's brigading.

[bitter hull]

People saw an overstep of power, and they're rushing into a community that isn't really theres to do something about it.
Is it an uprising of the already existing community? No
Are there probably some very valid criticisms? Yes

[celest cave]

Very aggressive, and not the question.

[lapis cedar]

That is not brigading lol not even by your own definition

[celest cave]

I asked you, why do you think there is a call to action against this specific mod.

[summer onyx]

You specifically asked "why do you think that is" to my message pointing out that it is brigading. What more do you want?

[warped cedar]

Brigading is a term for when people who aren't members of a particular reddit community keep coming to a post with the intent of pushing a specific viewpoint and/or drowning out legitimate discussion.
Hey, look at that. The exact thing that is happening here

You guys have no reason to be here except gaslight. Time to leave

[celest cave]

If you saw it that way, my bad.

[bitter hull]

That's not what's happened here, you guys are actually trying to drown out the discussion and call people, essentially, fake

"You disagree? Well then you're a fake reddit troll person, you don't count"

[warped cedar]

A google search of brigading definition, but if you disagree I would love to see your version of the definition sourced

[summer onyx]

That's precisely what happened here. Why do you think this thread was even created in the first place?

[bitter hull]

That said, I wish I was a stick-to-my-side-of-the-isle person, because I do think this is on some level brigading

[warped cedar]

Also, second post:

In general “brigading” is organized attempts at interference in another community.

Hey look, once again what is happening here

Note this one came directly from Reddit. I think it's pretty relevant. Considering, you know, the whole term is made up by Reddit.

[surreal ruin]

what 'discussion' not one of you fogsight haters as posted a single constructive post in the last hour or so I've been reading

[lapis cedar]

"Brigading is a slang term for an online practice in which people band together to perform a coordinated action, especially a negative one, such as manipulating a vote or poll or harassing a specific/ person or members of an online community."

Note : coordinated. There is nothing coordinated here, just a bunch of people who saw something wrong, and want to speak up about it.

[bitter hull]

But most of us who you're being cruddy to at who are trying to talk to you, are people deeply engrained in Unity indie development. And most of us have actually been in this server for years. I came here because I'm a unity developer who's active in many unity subreddits and discords, and one of our biggest discussion forums, THE OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM for unity, seems to have an issue with power misuse.

[warped cedar]

Silly me, it's not coordinated and therefore not relevant 🤣

What a useless discussion

[bitter hull]

I mean if the definition you're trying to lay out is something akin to "organized crime" then it's a valid point

but again I do think this was semi-valid brigading-lite

[warped cedar]

The three of you have no reason to be in this server so I don't see why you would be so interested in how it's moderated anyway

[bitter hull]

me?

[warped cedar]

If you want to fix this server, go help people that need help. Plenty of channels where people need help

[lapis cedar]

That is the definition. It is not relevant to the brigading accusations.

[bitter hull]

That wont fix the server if they get banned by a power hungry mod

[open storm]

@merry wharf
After reading your recent comments, I perhaps misjudged the situation.
To provide some context. At face value the solution you’ve provided for the question was out of character with any of your previous posts, bearing all the hallmarks of a chat generator answer. Providing it here extracted from logs as is for the context as well.

void Start() {
   // This is how we start the coroutine
   StartCoroutine(SpawnRandomBall());
}

IEnumerator SpawnRandomBall() {   
   // The while loop will run forever (until you stop the game)
   while (true) {         
      // Generate random wait time
      var randomDelay = Random.Range(1f, 6f);
                
      // Coroutines lets us wait for a certain amount of time by yielding using WaitForSeconds
      yield return new WaitForSeconds(randomDelay);
                
      int ballIndex = Random.Range(0, ballPrefabs.Length);
                // Generate random ball index and random spawn position
      Vector3 spawnPos = new Vector3(Random.Range(spawnLimitXLeft, spawnLimitXRight), spawnPosY, 0);

      // instantiate ball at random spawn location
      Instantiate(ballPrefabs[ballIndex], spawnPos, ballPrefabs[ballIndex].transform.rotation);
    }
}```
Additionally, with that in mind, your response to me asking you not to post LLM answers, I took as disingenuous one and acted rashly posting a warning message without providing an adequate context. 
Apologies if that was not a LLM generated code.
And I will try to be better at providing moderation context in the future.

[warped cedar]

No power hungry mods here. Fog sight has been a moderator for 5 (ish?) years now and suddenly now there is an issue

[bitter hull]

Problems aren't known problems until they're known, that's how it goes

[warped cedar]

You're not looking for help regarding your project. There's also no off-topic here. You have no reason to be here

[lapis cedar]

you used a LLM
no i didnt
warned without any evidence

Theres no moderation issues here

[surreal ruin]

I would have said that was AI Generated as well except for the last comment line (no capitalization on the i). Otherwize imo you did nothing wrong

[warped cedar]

But take it from Reddit and its misinformed users to say it's unjustified

Good, go get help and stop contributing to an unexisting issue. Make sure to check #🔎┃find-a-channel to find the channel you need for your question

[bitter hull]

My issue was again in the response to the response. I didn't like how people said "that wasn't cool" and the response was to wave the power stick in those peoples face

[bitter hull]

Is the issue non-existent or are you just yelling loud enough people can't talk about it?

[surreal ruin]

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. However you do not not make nor enforce the rules of this server. We, who post here day by day, do

[celest cave]

The issue very much exist

[lapis cedar]

Mods and mod bootlickers been trying to sweep this under the carpet for 4 hours + now. It's just reddit trolls Right.

[warped cedar]

Saying you proved me wrong goes perfectly with the misinformation that sparked this controversy int he first place. Made up nonsense

Also, way to gaslight users with a completely different topic

[bitter hull]

Mmmmm no the mods and admins make and enforce the rules. The people of the community discuss the rules, which is what I came here to do, and I've been yelled at by a few specific members of your community for going on 4 or 5 hours now

[lapis cedar]

If i see you write gaslight one more time imma lose it. Bro acting like a disgruntled ex.

[celest cave]

This feels very wrong to say. Nobody else than the mods should enforce authority, and even then they need to be called out when they feek like being pricks.

[warped cedar]

The posts specifically specifies you have no reason to be in this server considering you are only here for the controversy and not help. YOu don't have to twist my words because I can just forward them in here to prove my point

Feel free to stay, but perhaps use the actual server for what it's meant for and you will see there's nothing wrong

[surreal ruin]

That is untrue, we remind people of and enforce the rules every single day

[surreal ruin]

The mods cannot be active in every channel 24/7. Of course it is up to us, the ones who actually care about the quality of the server, to enforce the rules

[bitter hull]

Listen, I understand I'm not in this exact discord, but I AM on a consistent basis helping both new and advanced users in Unity in various discord servers. I've been developing in Unity for 8 years, I've got some titles under my belt, I've been laid off with most of the industry these last couple years...

You're telling me I shouldn't worry about how moderation is enforced in the server next door? If it's raining at my neighbors house I worry about mine.

[thorn holly]

Yea the non-capitalised i is a curve ball. But also, I’ve personally never seen a LLM create code with brackets formatted like that

if {
code
}

Personally I’ve only seen

if
{
code
}

But that’s something really small, and maybe there are LLMs that generate code with brackets formatted like that. Just thought it might be worth pointing out.

[warped cedar]

99% of your post history is literally in this channel. A few messages is not changing that my man

[summer onyx]

"I spent all day shit posting and whining as part of a concerted effort to remove someone I have never interacted with, but I posted one good thing today so therefore I'm part of the community and not here for malicious reasons"

[bitter hull]

depends on the language, lua and python give me a lot of that

[merry wharf]

I appreciate your clarification Fog,
I would also like to add that there was more to the message, prior to the code snippet, where I told Armon that you guys were correct in suggesting they use coroutines, and the code snippet was to show how it would be used, including my comments trying to explain how it works.

[vestal dune]

probably had instructed the AI to write it like that to 'stand out'

[celest cave]

Wrong, of course you can remind people of the rules, but the mods are specifically here to enforce them, it's what they do.

[merry wharf]

Hey Steve, the last comment is Armon's own comment. I used their original code as a base and changed it to use coroutine, and added my own comments to go with it.

[bitter hull]

He wrote like 15 lines of code but used AI and took the time to make it look AI but it still looked too AI? That's a bit of a stretch

[celest cave]

Jesus the bad faith.

[vestal dune]

no I mean if he used AI, he would have masked it. not throwing accusations here as I don't know what happened, just judging from what I see and the feedback

[thorn holly]

Could be a possibility, but that does seem like a bit overkill

[vestal dune]

have no idea what you mean by that in response to my previous comment.

[warped cedar]

You are literally repeating what Steve said, users also ensure the server is used properly

[vestal dune]

again, just saying based off of what I saw, no accusations are being thrown :/

[bitter hull]

Yeah I was gonna ask "What power do you use to enforce the rules" but I was gonna let that go

[clear dust]

1800 messages? Dam

[ivory abyss]

God I just spent hours reading all of this because I wanted to torture myself and have come to the conclusion that people are human. What a waste of time

[summer onyx]

Ah yes, the "legitimate criticism" of posting about your Spotify activity and telling other users they are "glazing" mods or whatever it is you said

[celest cave]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seemed to me you really wanted another explanation other than it was written by a human. And it felt like bad faith.

[clear dust]

Can someone link the first message

[warped cedar]

You, and everybody else, have not posted a single piece of constructive criticism in this channel apart from saying Fogsight is a bad moderator and trying to find something to discuss against. You provide absolutely nothing of value here

[thorn holly]

Yea that’s fair it’s good to throw in legitimate point of views or thoughts

[vestal dune]

what no lmao? just adding a comment to what the others said?

[bitter hull]

Forever frustrating ain't it? Careful with opinions like "people are human" though, you're really jumping in the middle of the firefight there 😉

[warped cedar]

Search the channel messages and just filter on "old"

[celest cave]

Is enforcing a synonym of reminding? This is a genuine question.

[clear dust]

im on mobile

[summer onyx]

"I'm not shit posting" >immediately shitposts

[warped cedar]

Enforcing more implies you also take action. However, enforcing can also mean you remind somebody of rules so that it "enforces" a change

[celest cave]

It felt like an attempt at bad faith, my bad then.

[celest cave]

Oh I'll be damn, thank you for correcting me then.

[vestal dune]

what do you even mean with bad faith?

[summer onyx]

Oh, so if you break the server rules it's okay because you have legitimate criticism, is that it?

[ivory abyss]

I know right? The only good thing to come out of this for me at least might be that I finally get back to doing hobby game dev with my copious free time.

[celest cave]

I meant genuinely trying trying to find an argument to try and discredit that the code was made by a human.

[warped cedar]

You don't care. You have done nothing in this server apart from contributing to useless discussions. You don't have to try and act like it's any different

Again, if you care and want to change this server, perhaps take part in it for longer than 24 hours and actually help people

You're not convincing me by staying in here

Also considering this thread does little to convince anybody of anything

If you want to prove it wrong, go use the server outside of this thread for longer than a day

[bitter hull]

I don't need to convince you, but I will be around helping people.

The servers structure is a bit convoluted for me tbh, you have to actually check all the different sections to go help people because there's not a general help thread, so I can't just second monitor it and help people I have the experience to help like I can most. That's not a diss on the server, all that to say the only reason I'm not also active in this discord is that it slipped down my discords list. It's not as easy to passively check, but it's going to be on my mind now.

[warped cedar]

No, but I know that you and everybody else that came from Reddit will just leave again once the controversy died down. Prove me wrong

You're not doing it by continuing these weird discussions. I don't have to be nice to you in here

I would respect you a lot more if you actually used the server for its purpose

[bitter hull]

isn't being kind in the #📖┃code-of-conduct 😏

[celest cave]

We can argue it goes both ways, one side won't believe the action against the guy who posted the code was an overaction, and the other won't acknowledge there is a real issue with Fog.

[ivory abyss]

I feel like I’m listening to a bunch of software engineers talking past each other about <controversial thing >

[bitter hull]

and don't you enforce the rules?

[bitter hull]

feel? 🙂

[warped cedar]

Please point your finger on the part that says I have to be nice to people that are being inconsiderate and only partake in the server because of the controversy

It says a lot of how my attitude should be, but it certainly doesn't mention I should always remain kind

[thorn holly]

Dang GIFs not allowed :(

[bitter hull]

remember when I tried to have a civil discussion and was yelled at for like an hour and a half until you decided you were only joke arguing with me while you backed up and sided with the guy who was being a total jerk to me when I'm one of the only people actually trying to have a productive conversation about this?

You're shutting down the conversation. I challenge you to claim differently. You've told people to hush from the get-go

[warped cedar]

Yes, and I will respect the people in here if they actually use the server for its purpose. It has been like this since its inception and there is no reason to change that if you don't show the same respect

[bitter hull]

but you didn't, you straight up didn't, I've been trying to facilitate a discussion for hours and basically you and one other person made it impossible

[summer onyx]

Now point to the part of the conversation that is in any way actually productive

[bitter hull]

https://discord.com/channels/489222168727519232/1319190043688173608

[summer onyx]

You can't because there is nothing anyone in here can do because this is something only the admins can properly address

[bitter hull]

The point I made hours ago, been yelled at ever since, sometimes by both sides.

[pale rune]

I'm one of the only people actually trying to have a productive conversation about this?
no you arent, you literally arent
you are here to argue
you are treating this as your personal debate club because you get off on "winning" conversations against random people on the internet
all you care about is having pseudo-intellectual "debates" with people who are not interested in listening to you
get out

[warped cedar]

Why do you care? The same applies to you here

Apart from that thread post you have done nothing but send messages in this thread

Go be helpful, I'll respect you

[pale rune]

and i'm sorry for being blunt, but you are detached from reality, Chloe

[bitter hull]

How is it I can't decide anything about the server without being here 5 years but you know me so well you've put out 3 product descriptions of "Chloe" today?

[pale rune]

you are literally glued to the screen

[bitter hull]

yeah at this point I'm pissed off, people like you are infuriating

but that's not why I came here, that's because you and @warped cedar have been jerks since I got here

[warped cedar]

You don't need to act like a victim. This entire thread has been pointless and you are one of the many contributing in it

[maiden coral]

lmao there's an 80 level article about this now 😂

[bitter hull]

calling me out for being on tilt or frustrated isn't gonna earn you points, I'll freely admit that.

[summer onyx]

Now imagine how the people who actually use this server feel about all of the redditors flooding in just to give their two cents about a situation they didn't have the full context for?

[bitter hull]

You've been a jerk. I'm not acting like a victim, I don't need sympathy, that's what happened.

[bitter hull]

Yeah please read back the discussion where I've addressed that multiple times and these two dudes have found personal attacks to yell at me about

[pale rune]

you are the living, breathing incarnation of "concern trolling"

[clear dust]

Need someone to write a good tldr

[bitter hull]

inb4 someone says there were no personal attacks in a chat that has a log

[jovial summit]

When I left this thread last night it seemed like it was going to be handed over to the mods to discuss and address. What are people still arguing about now? Has the thread just become a place to be hateful?

[pale rune]

kid got banned, big mad, made reddit post, now more people mad

[summer onyx]

You've been shit posting and whining in here all day, surely you have something better to do than follow the reddit hive mind around

[warped cedar]

Again, you are free to stay, but I know the majority of you people have only joined for the controversy. Go prove me wrong and actually help folks out as it the point of this server.

[thorn holly]

Sums it up for the most part

[warped cedar]

Alright, I'm convinced you're just trolling at this point

[bitter hull]

The mods are waiting on the admins. Occasionally someone pops in to give their opinion, they're usually pretty heated, and then the defense crew galvanizes the situation and makes it even worse. So yeah kinda nail-on-the-head there

[bitter hull]

He's my sides version of @pale rune , I sure wish you would admit yours is off the rocker

[warped cedar]

I know you're gone as soon as this thread dies so I know my messages fall on deaf ears anyway

For the third time, your experience with Unity and Game development have nothing to do with my point

[patent vine]

Joined this discord specifically to see if anything happened with the situation only to see interpersonal beef that should be taken into DMs lmao

[thorn holly]

Okay I found that remark funny, even if rude or unhelpful, which to be honest was also 90% of this thread anyway

[bitter hull]

I swear it felt more like a slow mudslide if you were here for it XD

[ivory abyss]

I am genuinely laughing out loud at 4:30 AM reading these last few posts

[warped cedar]

I've been thoroughly enjoying watching these people and responding to it

[bitter hull]

No that's a lie I totally saw this coming this is on me I chose this battle I guess lol I can't help but argue with people when I think they're wrong. Especially when their logic isn't consistent, that gets the programmer brain all riled up

[thorn holly]

There is some funny stuff in here I agree

[patent vine]

Feels like when a random GC you were added in starts blowing up with beef and you just get to watch for funsies

[warped cedar]

God I wish you could read

[ivory abyss]

This just became transactional, now I’m obliged to go help people in #⚛️┃physics or something tomorrow 😆

[warped cedar]

I have to say this thread really helps with letting off steam, especially when posts like these appear

At least it's contained in here

[warped cedar]

Yes! More people that help!

[vapid vortex]

He isn't the nicest of individuals but some of the folks genuinely deserve to be booted/regulated.
The common statements made by those booted to regular users of this discord are:

You think you're a mod now
Sharing their experience as moderators from some random disord server, roblox server or whatnot.

[bitter hull]

I'm actually also having a hard time following the sentence structure of this middle part.

"booted to regular users of this discord" is getting me stuck

[vapid vortex]

This is a trend/hype/hate-wagon that will disappear in a week or so.

[ivory abyss]

Don’t all things eventually end? That’s the only thing that gives it meaning 🤔

[warped cedar]

My attitude has rarely been an issue in the 22k messages I send when helping people

[patent vine]

Keep in mind for the Internet that's about as important as it gets

[bitter hull]

okay like 500 of those are you talking shit to me so deduct that XD

[vapid vortex]

It didn't end so well for the godot mod though 😆

[warped cedar]

Also because when I do have an attitude, most people actually listen to the critisism that is given to them

[vapid vortex]

This dude isn't on that level though.

[summer onyx]

A common statement made toward people who frequent the server by the people who are commonly booted

[bitter hull]

you think people listen more when you have an attitude? Am I reading that right?

[warped cedar]

No, but I don't have to put on a smile towards every single person when I am helping them. The result stays the same though, they are actually helped

[bitter hull]

Unironically thank you, but I did restructure that in my head and figure it out after a moment. I just didn't wanna clog the discussion more

[warped cedar]

And despite that I do enjoy helping, in case you are wondering

[ivory abyss]

That’s not far enough! Do it in Mindstorm Legos from 2008!

[bitter hull]

Bro if your game isn't written in TI-BASIC these days what are you even doing

The government says we need memory safety and nothing is more memory safe than only having like 12 dedicated string storage blocks XD

[ivory abyss]

Unironically it’d be interesting to write something in TI-BASIC and run it in web assembly

[patent vine]

Unity has fallen, board games are back

[obsidian sparrow]

boardgames never left 🧑‍🚀 🔫 👨‍🚀

[bitter hull]

Yo if anyone is considering this please look up DragonScape haha my friend in middle school uploaded his text-based version of Runescape. It was actually pretty quality XD

[patent vine]

Open world board game with a board the size of a twister mat

[bitter hull]

I've played that lol

you just use multiple tilemaps for dnd done and done (thing was all through the house)

[vapid vortex]

Tabletops are still a thing.

[patent vine]

Yes without them tables would be quite useless, I'm aware.

[obsidian sparrow]

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

[ivory abyss]

Ahh, shitposting is still the best argument diffusal tool available.

[patent vine]

That's an emoticon, banned for spreading misinformation

[bitter hull]

depends on the use-case haha you can gish-gallop in court or in an argument and you're basically shitposting for the opposite reason, but you're not wrong. A couple times we start talking about gamedev and things quiet down for a bit until we get a new reddit visitor and the loop starts again :p

[vapid vortex]

"No u" is 🤔

[ivory abyss]

It’s such an unproductive loop. I’ve read like five different versions of it at this point and nothing is going to go anywhere at 5AM

[patent vine]

Hit the person who is gave you with an entirely unironic take with "7/10 ragebait almost got me" then turn off your pc

[ivory abyss]

But we’re all human so 🤪

[obsidian sparrow]

almost shift-change

[bitter hull]

The goal is to get all of humanity through the loop

[patent vine]

British ppl might get on or smth

[bitter hull]

2 or 3 at a time XD

[ivory abyss]

Jokes on you I’m on a phone! No turning this off for me!

[patent vine]

What if we all just kissed and made up with everyone and we all held hands and everything was fun and happy

[warped cedar]

Come on people, we are this close to having a normal and fun conversation. So exciting 💗

[ivory abyss]

That sounds scary

[bitter hull]

ah, turns out that doesn't fix anything, they tried that in the 60s

[warped cedar]

Normal conversations? Yes

[patent vine]

:(

[bitter hull]

Don't get me wrong I'm a hippie type myself but we thought the solution was pure love... it turns out the solution was solutions 🙃 we're just now getting around to a lot of those

[ivory abyss]

I mean I meant the copious amount of personal interaction required to kiss and makeup to everyone in the conversation, but also that yes.

[warped cedar]

Sometimes you just don't got to think about it and kiss

[patent vine]

4 am unity thread yaoi goes crazy

[ivory abyss]

Now we’re getting into dangerous territory. Back, foul beasts!!

[graceful lake]

isnt that offtopic?

[patent vine]

There has not been a topic in this thread for a long time.

[sweet bronze]

no you see, when the rightful heirs of the community who have posted for 200 years off-topic, it's not off-topic it's a normal and fun conversation

[ivory abyss]

A truer statement has probably been made but that’s still correct

[patent vine]

I could go create a separate thread for 4 am unity thread yaoi, if that's what you'd prefer

[ivory abyss]

Excuse me I’m a Reddit brigadier and I’d like to claim some responsibility for the off-topic mess we have here

[graceful lake]

im not saying u cant

speak here idc, im just asking

[sweet bronze]

attention sargeant!

[ivory abyss]

I’m a deserter though. No allegiances

[bitter hull]

It is but this is kinda a containment zone now

[ivory abyss]

God I have to say half the comments on Reddit just show what a cesspool of uninformed people it is. I didn’t even notice until actually reading what some people are saying 🙈

[warped cedar]

This is probably the only time where this server will have an off-topic channel

Probably for the better too that it's used for that 😎

[bitter hull]

Yeah I feel if people start to feel like they're truly part of the core of something, they're usually gonna get sunk in and start getting a little culty at some point, it's unfortunately frequent in online communities but I've seen it happen in friend groups too

When someone always tells us we're right and the other person always tells us we're wrong:

we tend to jump to the conclusion that we're either always right or always wrong, and thus, that one of them is always right. We end up trying to figure out who's right instead of what's right.

Usually it ends in one of 3 options:

1. Choose the side that's nice to you because it's nice
2. Choose the side that looks worse because it seems realistic
3. Be quiet

[merry wharf]

Yeah, I personally don't like how my original post got roped in with the emoji debacle. If you react "FOG" and add the pride flag emoji, I'd be close to banning you too.

No, I would ban you

[bitter hull]

oh wow I didn't even put together that implication

[ivory abyss]

I do think those were separate people just to be clear

One of which came back from a ~7 month hiatus

But still textbook emoji spam with no real purpose

[vapid vortex]

In a regular channel, you probably would (after a few are warned) as it's against the server rules and off topic - you may not even get a warning if you decided to troll along with it at a later time after the fallout.

[rustic bough]

To be honest I don’t feel that this is resolved at all. Every user should be treated equally (Warn, Mute, Ban). There should be no exceptions to that.

I also think mods shouldn’t accuse people of using LLMs and threatening them to get banned if that’s not part of the current ruleset.

What’s even the community’s opinion on this? Should LLM code be allowed? We should ask them first!

After all, I’m disappointed by how this is currently addressed and I think the moderation team should stick their heads together to come up with a more balanced and community friendly moderation approach.

And being accused as a raider coming from Reddit doesn’t help to be honest.

[open storm]

To be clear, so it won't be taken out of context again. People were placing pride flag after the word "ban", and later putting my nickname in place of it, after bigots were banned for it.

[cyan charm]

Good Lord I’ve seen a post about that llm accident over 10 hours ago and the mod responsible for it is still typing right now. I’ve never seen anyone take unpaid moderation more seriously in my life

[bitter hull]

Eh, he's only really posted ocasionally to clear things up. Though, I don't personally see any of it as having addressed what I see as the biggest issues here.

Still, likely for the best to simply clear up facts for now and nothing else, given the heat level

[vapid vortex]

I assure you, he hasn't been sitting here the entire time looking at every post.

[sweet bronze]

I don't think LLM content should be allowed but baselessly accusing someone of doing so with no proof by nature of it 'having all the hallmarks of LLM code' when A: what does that even mean? and B: it's 20 lines of code on relatively generic solution is nothing short of insanity.

[cyan charm]

The fact that this issue is still being actively discussed after half a day just reinforces my beliefs that programmers have abysmal social skills

[ivory abyss]

Also just in case this got lost: #1319020501250740315 message

[bitter hull]

why?

[cyan charm]

“LLM code is not allowed”
“This is not generated”
“Ok, but just as a reminder, it’s not allowed”
And everyone moves on

Kinda obvious?

[bitter hull]

If you see the situation as being that simple you're missing a lot of nuance here.

[cyan charm]

There’s no nuance here

[sweet bronze]

hes right

or maybe even a 'my bad' after "this is not generated"

[bitter hull]

Well he's right that that's how it could have gone down, I'm just not sure why that was delivered with an insult aimed at my group lol

[ivory abyss]

I mean if I’m understanding right even fogsight thinks that is probably what should have happened, it’s just what went down after (not helped by bigotry from randos) that’s up in the air

[warped cedar]

Oh boy, and the discussion begins anew

[bitter hull]

things are actually pretty calm right now...

[warped cedar]

Don't worry, I'm ready

[ivory abyss]

I know… why did I add to it 😦

[cyan charm]

Remark about social skills? This wasn’t an insult, it’s a valid concern when working with programmers. Sorry if it sounded off

I mean it. In the same way as “you should work on your SQL” many programmers should hear “you should work on your social skills” and it’s a genuine call for improvement. It’s just that some refuse to

[ivory abyss]

I mean I will say we’re all some sort of programmer here and it’s a common stereotype for a reason…

[bitter hull]

Don't get me wrong I didn't take it as anything other than a lighthearted jab, but I'm a programmer haha, this whole conversation doesn't really scream programmer to me tbh. The coder-type people are generally not the ones good at rabble-rousing

but no you're not wrong, as a general rule yeah that's true

[cyan charm]

The reason this problem arose was because a person assumed something, refused to learn the details, then became aggressive and even used their authority as an argument. Happens all the time in corporate especially coming from bad lead engineers

[odd basalt]

do you guys not have jobs to do lmao

[bitter hull]

No, bro, 14k layoffs, get with the program XD

[cyan charm]

Christmas vacation 🎄

[warped cedar]

This is what you would call procrastination

[odd basalt]

true, im in fintech making “games”
now so everyday is a holiday

[merry wharf]

Waiting on a domain reload

[ivory abyss]

Oh no I’m just going to wake up at 11am and fall into my morning scrum half asleep 🤷‍♂️

[bitter hull]

you delete that, i'll delete this, we end on halfspacers comment. perfect ending to this thread lol

[cyan charm]

My place primarily deals with government contracts. It’s nice having standards so low 😎

[odd basalt]

this has been the most excitement relating to my “job” in weeks

[sweet bronze]

no job, no life, perma online, what of it bruv

[ivory abyss]

Hey I work in government stuff too! You take that back not everyone has to work in a classified lab all day 🧐 🤣

[cyan charm]

No it’s more of a “we need software for that thing in undergrounds that spins when you scan your ticket”

[ivory abyss]

Ah that does seem more important

[cyan charm]

Insanely so

[ivory abyss]

Money, you know

[carmine pilot]

In this case I was referring specifically to the original topic of the thread however that does not seem to matter at the moment

[ivory abyss]

No but seriously, thanks y’all for the entertainment and reminding me that Unity is still kicking, I’ll be back at a non ridiculous hour to do something productive!

[cyan charm]

I keep coming back to unity for one reason or another

I should go actually make a game fr

[warped cedar]

I see the discussion I had with that one guy has now been completely removed. As I thought, they really just stay for the drama and then leave again.

[vapid vortex]

Ideally, you're using the Unity platform because you're making your game..

[odd basalt]

i just lurk for info or chime in when i have time (barely ever) and only ask when im really stuck on something

[sweet bronze]

nope i just think it's weird when people pour through your comment history to find some gotcha so I deleted it still here

[full epoch]

why is posting rainbow emoji bannable 💀

[bitter hull]

Guessing you're here from reddit :p moderation is waiting on admins at the moment for some of the ongoings. The emoji thing in particular seems to have actually been a hateful use of the pride flag that was being dealt with (from my understanding)

[opal viper]

yeah, this is accurate

[rose hazel]

I noticed earlier it was discussed that llms halt learning and are unethical due to the IP they are trained on however I'd say if you're not using tools like copilot you're disadvantaged to those that are

[full epoch]

no i hate reddit

[oblique briar]

It's not a question as to whether you're advantaged or not. It's about learning how things work. If you skip the actual implementation process, you're not learning how to find the answer and do it yourself.

[bitter hull]

Mmmmm I'm gonna be honest I feel like I've contributed to what is now kinda the global code repo (github, since they trained copilot on our stuff) so I feel comfortable using copilot, I mean I am paying to use an AI trained partially on my code and I would never use code I don't understand (also you're not gonna get anything even functional with AI if you can't structure safe modular code). Now... other generative AI like image generation is a separate discussion that's a little difficult. I didn't contribute to that.

[rose hazel]

Well I always say you shouldn't use it if you don't understand and was referencing more the auto completion functionality.

[warped cedar]

I assume you're unaware of the context? #1319020501250740315 message

[rose hazel]

When I use it, I use it to write what I was already going to write mostly

[bitter hull]

As a tool it's great, people get in trouble when they try to use it as a genie

[full epoch]

wheres original msg

[warped cedar]

Dunno what message you mean

[full epoch]

its image of rainbow emoji?

[oblique briar]

Full disclosure I still dislike LLMs for code completion but can't deny that it can speed things up for somebody in the right hands. Like Chloe said.

Intellisense autocomplete is usually good enough for me

[keen raven]

If you've joined this server in the past 24hrs and have some pitchfork opinions you probably should consider taking a step back. The admins (including fogsight) are do a pretty awesome job here. If you've just joined, you probably don't see that the exact same (tired) questions/arguments re: LLMs are had every single day. If a response was mistakenly identified as an LLM response but the user was just warned.. OK? But the user who was banned was clearly trolling and not an active server participant (BAN FOG is obviously just trolling). Honestly, this whole thing is stupid.

This is probably an unpopular opinion, but the user who was banned deserved to be banned, and went and posted on reddit about it. Aside from people picking up the pitchforks and clearly just participating for the sake of internet drama, nothing really exceptional occurred. A user was a jerk, and they were banned. That's it.

[rose hazel]

I dislike the fact they were trained on code without permission but at the end of the day I'm competing in a passion industry with massive layoffs so I also want that competitive edge to secure work.

[warped cedar]

No idea, sorry

[rose hazel]

The person who originally posted claimed they only reacted to the fog letters, don't know if it's true

[bitter hull]

Mmmmm there's a whole other situation here, though, and this is the containment thread for all of it.

[rose hazel]

The first time I tried copilot I started writing a function and it output word for word what I was going to write. That's when I knew it would save a lot of time.

[rose hazel]

Yeah a lot of topics have been contained within this thread

[full epoch]

trolling is banned?

[odd basalt]

trolling adds nothing to a discussion

[bitter hull]

Yeah but it for sure has plenty of I type "void Start(", and it's like "OH OH! Player controller!?" and I'm like calm down buddy no, I understand you like that code snippet.

[warped cedar]

It is often pretty obvious when somebody is just in here to troll. That's enough to boot them from the server.

[bitter hull]

I mean you said we were all here to troll so that's not a great take

[full epoch]

whats deci9 lol

[bitter hull]

You would have kicked me out and I haven't at any point been trying to be a shit stirrer

[rose hazel]

You did call a lot of people trolls

[warped cedar]

I don't see what your point is. What I said was that most people in here are just joining to gaslight in this thread instead of actually using the server for what it's meant for. I didn't say that you are trolling

And what I also said is that if you disagree, you are free to prove me wrong and use the server for its purpose which is helping and being helped

[bitter hull]

technically true but ya sure agreed with the guy who did from start to finish

[warped cedar]

Also, mind you, the messages were not towards you specifically

[oblique briar]

I mean it's natural to expect a bunch of trolls during a "reddit brigade"

[bitter hull]

wait didn't you also literally say that no one from reddit had good intentions

like multiple times while purposefully lumping me in that group? I'm not being rhetorical idk if I'm remembering right, it's been a lot

[warped cedar]

No, I said that there will not be a single person with good intentions coming from that Reddit thread apart from stirring the controversy

[full epoch]

but its rude to assume i am a redditor, infact i am offended

[warped cedar]

You should make a Twitter post

[full epoch]

i dont have a twitter either

[warped cedar]

Now that's a problem

[bitter hull]

wait no but yeah exactly what? Isn't that the thread I came from?

[warped cedar]

Are you going to stay and actually use the server for its actual purpose?

[rose hazel]

That may be true for me, I came to watch but I got involved due to seeing fogs moderation. They just need a better attitude to it

[oblique briar]

I'd implore you guys to spend some time in this server. I honestly do believe Fog does a good job of catching bad actors early

[warped cedar]

Actually, you didn't even join from that thread. My point is that there are plenty of people in here brigading who have no reason to be in here. I'm pretty sure you have been around for longer

[rose hazel]

Sure but it's just the tone of voice when you deal with new members or minors

[oblique briar]

When it's a server of this scale, I can't blame him for not being perfectly cordial and experiencing the worst of all people.

With no pay, mind you.

[full epoch]

is this fog guy a wokie?

[bitter hull]

Dude yes, I've been in here for 4 years, I'm more active in other places but I've been helping other unity devs for a long time please give me the tiniest bit of credit, this server has a lot of subchannels and it slid down my list, but it's obviously gonna come to mind now after all this :p

[warped cedar]

Also, generally the moderators here have a fair amount of patience, even when it's obvious they are dealing with a troll

[rose hazel]

Yeah I can understand that but then take a break when you represent the community

[sweet bronze]

define woke

[bitter hull]

aw dude don't take that bait cmon man

[oblique briar]

Can we not encourage that thanks

[bitter hull]

@sweet bronze are you a literal fish my dude XD

[sweet bronze]

don't worry he doesn't have an answer

[bitter hull]

he does, if you provoke people they'll answer, there's really no need to go there right now, let it be ignored

[rose hazel]

Ong just realised this is our join dates. As if we can't read message histories and even said I joined from the Reddit post

[warped cedar]

He clearly meant Wookie 🐻

[full epoch]

semantics

[bitter hull]

GAH SEE YOU ACTIVATED HIM XD

[warped cedar]

Not sure what you're getting at

[clear dust]

How does this almost have 2k messages surely its not that deep

[oblique briar]

It's just a hot topic and lots of people from reddit

[mystic glacier]

Spammers finally found an off topic channel...

[bitter hull]

@oblique briar nah it's not quite that simple

See the mods can't make announcments, the subreddit has shut down the thread so no discussion happens there, and the admins are offline, so the discussion is here in its little bubble

[warped cedar]

The majority of this thread is really just a bunch of people spending their time with discussions

[rose hazel]

Apologies if I was unclear, sharping reacted with join dates as if our opinions are not valid even though if you look through my message history I didn't claim anything and have only been open

[rose hazel]

So real

[oblique briar]

Honestly that's just a bit rude, I don't think Dark is antagonistic or trolly.

[bitter hull]

Being cordial is one thing, overstepping with your position of power is another. You're minimizing their behaviour.

[rose hazel]

Ofc I don't even believe action needs to be taken against fog, he's owned up to the llm post and I genuinely just think he needs to be a bit nicer to people

There is also the open issue u/bendgk ban which is under review that started all this

[rose hazel]

They may have just got it wrong this one time tbf, I think accountability and self reflection are things we can all incorporate into our personality

[bitter hull]

wasn't bendgk the emoji person?

[rose hazel]

Yes he was the one who reacted with the thumbs down and the fog letters

[rose hazel]

Forgiveness too considering we are so close to Christmas

[bitter hull]

That is in my opinion a very unsafe attitude for dealing with positions of granted power.

[rose hazel]

Well we do have to have trust in mods to do their job, regardless the action taken will be decided by the unity team if need be

[sweet bronze]

bruh they are a discord mod not a supreme court justice

[rose hazel]

Fr the justices are more corrupt

[bitter hull]

It's easy to be all "it's just a discord mod jeeze" unless you've dealt someone who's gotten a small position of power and held it over you. May you never feel that feeling.

Because that's your feeling then too is like "this person is just a <whatever>, surely they can't like... majorly affect my life or anything".

if someone gave them a position of power over you, they often can

[rose hazel]

Well I was banned from a server because males weren't allowed apparently and I had he/him pronouns on my old Instagram account (I'm fluid)

[sweet bronze]

I've been wrongfully banned from different platforms plenty of times. I like your energy I just don't know that this is the best place for it. It's not that serious.

[bitter hull]

Speaking truth to power... there's never gonna be a place for it

[atomic meteor]

I think the main takeaway from all of this is that at least one person from the unity community team is looking into the drama.

It will be hard for unity to ignore the issue when it's sitting at the top of their Reddit page, along with the fact that this discord carries 'official' in the title, even though unity don't directly run it themselves

[rose hazel]

Yeah it sucks but at the end of the days it's not that big of a deal

[sweet bronze]

but you aren't speaking truth to power you're just malding in a chatroom at 7 AM and have been for the past 9 hours. I've done it too but let's not pretend this is important

the guy ain't here and ain't listening and the people with the actual power to change things also aint here

[mystic glacier]

People are not divided into morally black and white. They're more complex than that. Fogsight is not an amalgamation of evil. He's just a regular person. Perhaps he had a bad day, so he was more strict than usual. This is normal and no moderator is immune to that. If you want someone absolutely unbiased, you'll need to put a robot in that position.

It is also the responsibility of users to read the atmosphere and not antagonize people on purpose

[rose hazel]

Even I am not for or against fogsight

[atomic meteor]

I would agree if there was not a pattern to said behaviour

[rose hazel]

I agree that it may have been inevitable this would happen

[bitter hull]

Didn't say unbiased. Not trying to silence people who disagree with you by threatening them with bans when the community around you is all just saying "that was too harsh dude" is a nice minimum though.

[atomic meteor]

Having a bad day is fine, but having multiple 'bad days' repeatedly, is usually a sign that you either need a break from moderation or shouldn't be one to begin with

[sweet bronze]

I agree something should probably be done but you've known for hours that they need the admins to do so. To speak truth to power the power has to actually be there. This is just speaking truth to randos

[bitter hull]

I'm not sure if you want my opinion to change as the night goes on or?

[mystic glacier]

I've never seen something like that from him. Are you sure you're not confusing the user trolling and ignoring the rules with trying to convey a point?

[sweet bronze]

I'm not sure what constantly bringing it up is going to do when the situation hasn't changed

[atomic meteor]

Really the only ones that can truly do something is unity themselves. If they don't want drama like this making it's way into news, they have to setup their own discord and advertise that instead as official

[mystic glacier]

And hey. The fact that you can converse on these topics here freely and no one bans you, kinda tells something.

[rose hazel]

I have looked at the history and saw other instances of users saying fogs actions/words weren't needed

[bitter hull]

I just... it's like you're being like 'why are you even here' when you're here too, you've been in this whole hurricane right near me so like?

either I'm discussing it with people or I'm not, I'm not gonna get bored of having an opinion and just stop having that opinion because it got late