#industry chat

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

spice ether
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i don't know, is it? there are only so many jobs to go around (especially right now). it's not like anyone can just quit and move to a new studio on a game they're more passionate about

errant karma
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I must say I am glad to be at the end of my career rather than at the beginning

spice ether
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fair enough, yeah. it's real crowded these days, and that big nasty economy monster reared its head and suddenly like half my industry friends are unemployed all at the same time

errant karma
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It horrifies me that 99% of software devs today seem to know absolutely nothing about computers

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It's crowded, maybe, but it's crowded with people who have not a clue what they are doing

spice ether
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what makes you say that?

errant karma
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I see the questions they ask and the problems they are unable to solve without help

spice ether
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well to be fair i think the majority of people asking for help in here are kids/students leaning unity

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i can't say i was any better when i was 12 and messing around with java

errant karma
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not just talking about here.
I provide support to government orgs, I have to deal with some real idiots

spice ether
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ahh yeah that'd do it

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one of my cousins is an engineer at a military contractor and he has similar stories

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though i do wonder if it's just that private companies take the cream of the crop and the comparatively low pay from government jobs go to whoever is left

errant karma
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Not that I;m complaining too much, the more the y have to call me, the higher my bank balance goes. But it is depressing when a so called tech consultant does not know what the task manger in windows is

spice ether
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jeez that's rough

errant karma
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and that's not just gov staff, commercial devs are no better

spice ether
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if anyone i worked with at my job were that bad they'd be let go immediately, or more likely not even hired

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i can't say i've ever encountered an incompetent software developer in any studio i've worked at. the testing processes seem to do a real good job weeding them out

errant karma
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If I needed to employ new staff now, I doubt very much if I would find anyone suitable, they just do not have the training

errant karma
spice ether
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sounds like some real bad luck

errant karma
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Maybe my standards are too high for today, I dont know, but I do like for devs to actually know how a computer works

spice ether
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depends on what you mean there

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if you're saying basic tech literacy then of course. if i have to teach the new guy how to use spreadsheets that sucks

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but there are plenty of gaps in knowledge a developer can have and still get the job done

errant karma
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As I said, I'm old school, I think in asm code even when using the OS

spice ether
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i mean that's fine, you do you, but expecting that from new devs is like complaining that a modern novelist has bad handwriting

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because of course he does, he's not gonna hand-write a book, he types them

errant karma
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but he still needs to know how to spell and form sentences

spice ether
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that's the equivalent of basics though

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and if someone made it through enough computer science education to even be considered for one of these jobs there's no way they don't have that

errant karma
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But they dont, thats my problem, the level of CS teaching is abysmal.

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I have just turned down a professorship at a local University because what they wanted me to teach was so dumbed down as to be worthless

spice ether
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what, entry-level computer science stuff?

errant karma
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yes

spice ether
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everyone has to start somewhere, it's not like we're born with this knowledge

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if someone is genuinely taking compsci100 they probably don't even know what RAM is

errant karma
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absolutely, but I did not grow up with computers, I bet you did

spice ether
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i did, but my dad was a programmer. most other kids i grew up around didn't really think about the computer as anything other than a box that plays games

errant karma
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with no effort or learning required

spice ether
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then why is a college course that teaches them the basics a bad thing? isn't that the first step toward learning how to make games?

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people get into things at different times in their lives. just because they arrived later than i did into game dev doesn't mean they're not capable of learning it

errant karma
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because it's too late by then

spice ether
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it really isn't though

errant karma
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I have taught a lot of university students over the years, all of them had one failing, they thought they knew everything already

spice ether
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so you're telling me teenagers are overconfident in their abilities?

errant karma
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yes

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very much so

spice ether
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that's not new though

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that's just what teenagers are like

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throughout all of history

errant karma
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maybe, if I think back to when I was at Uni the tech was all new so no one had much of a clue what we were doing we were just playing

spice ether
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confidence leads to trying new things, trying new things leads to failure, failure leads to learning and growth

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that's the human condition

errant karma
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I only wish I could believe that that was still true

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Copy/Paste (ask ChatGPT) - Ask Discord - Whinge when you dont get an answer. That seems to be the norm today

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even using google seems to be too much to ask

spice ether
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you keep generalizing these negative traits to the entire younger generation of programmers. do you have any evidence to these claims that isn't purely anecdotal?

errant karma
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it's what I see every single day

spice ether
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that's anecdotal

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that's filtered through your biases

errant karma
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no, it's what I see not what I hear about, that would be anecdotal

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but, anecdotally, I hear the same things from other devs

spice ether
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sure. but this entire conversation so far has just been you making unsubstantiated claims about "those damn kids"

errant karma
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unsubstantiated? Go and read the channels in this discord, or any other dev discord for that matter

spice ether
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yeah, i see kids asking dumb questions about things they don't understand. that's how learning works, man

errant karma
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well what I see is kids who dont know how to learn

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and have no interest in learning

spice ether
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well yeah, liking games is a great motivator for learning how to make games

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they want to make games and are attempting to learn Unity so they can meet that goal

errant karma
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no they are not
wanna make game -> learn how to -> make a game
they just want to skip the "learn how to" step because they are ignorant, lazy and over entitled

spice ether
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well if they never learn how they won't ever make a game

errant karma
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true, which is the fate of 99.9% of kids that come onto this discord

spice ether
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so... what's the problem then? they wanted to make a game, realized they didn't like the process, and so didn't make a game

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again, none of this is new. people try new things and decide they don't like them all the time

errant karma
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The problem, as I see it is that the education system has failed them. Someone somewhere has convinced them they are entitled to 'Make a Game" what they failed to teach them is that effort is required

spice ether
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...who cares? why would someone with zero knowledge or experience in making games come into it with knowledge of how hard it is? and, again, none of this is new. this is how we as a species learn things

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they try to make a game, realize they don't enjoy making games, and so don't make a game. where's the harm there?

errant karma
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fair point, but it goes beyond games into life itself, this cannot be a good way to approach life in general

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but I do get your point, I'm an old school professional dev and i would like everyone else to behave like an old school professional dev, that is an unrealistic expectation so maybe the problem lies with my expectations rather than with the idiots I have to deal with

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Does not mean I am going to change my standards though

spice ether
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you don't have to hire people who can't do the job