archived-pricing-updates-talk

[raw frigate]

why would you

[tired hedge]

if every1 in ur class failed a test would you fail it bcuz rest did?

[plucky ivy]

they gonna beat me up if i dont

[zenith echo]

Not if they tier it somehow.

[rigid moon]

i wouldnt but this is unitys big idea.

[warm cloak]

Yes, that's literally a grade-curve.

[summer hill]

fr

[raw frigate]

it's a shit one

[tacit tusk]

unity are basically screwed, they love the fixed income of per seat charges and now they want rev share ontop - people will just choose to use another engine.

[rigid moon]

that way unitys only advantage over godot or unreal was didnt have to pay % charge like unreal just pay flat amount and where set

[edgy yew]

Yeah they didn't want, on paper, a monthly subscription (pro) plus a rev share. Because comparing that on the onset to something like Unreal, is a no brainer for going a different path for indies and studios early on.

[signal frost]

aren't the seats like chump change compared to a % though?

[raw frigate]

absolutely

[tacit tusk]

it is the exact reason people chose unity in the first place, now people will just choose not to use unity instead.

[tacit tusk]

depends how many devs you have... $2k per seat is not 'cheap'

[tired hedge]

i think unitey should be free 100% and government just pay for their devs

[raw frigate]

it's not cheap but when it comes to unity they'll earn more in the long run

[edgy yew]

Yes and no. In practice they are about the same. If you are paying them 60K in runtime fees, you almost certainly the same - or more likely double or triple that in pro subscriptions in most cases.

[rigid moon]

just depends on rev, 2k per seat is flat cost, unreal 5% after 1mill is better when less rev and more with more rev.

[tacit tusk]

developers / publishers just have a choice to make, the choice is fairly obvious in most cases.

[signal frost]

I mean it depends on the seats/income I guess, but most of the time if you get to the point where you have over a million dollars a year to even care about the % I assume that the seats aren't that big of a deal

[indigo sluice]

2k is chump change compared to 5%

[drifting gyro]

2k*devs+4% isn't though

[tacit tusk]

its $2k per seat UPFRONT , its not chump change for a team of 10+

[edgy yew]

Yeah, but if you hit 1mil in revenue for a title, you'd have 10-30 devs, at 2K/yr each. So the pro fees (in many cases) will still be the same or more than the rev share.

[native pendant]

I mean if I hit over a mil in rev, boy am I retiring

[scarlet heath]

true, but by that time, you're somewhat of a big enough studio to afford paying the 5% from Unreal

[indigo sluice]

if you have 10 employes and can't pay 2k each for a license how will you pay their salaries.. computers.. benefits.. etc

[oblique marlin]

One you only pay if you're successful and one you pay even if you're not.

[frank iron]

2k per seat per year right

[tacit tusk]

tack on a 4% rev share and you are cutting it tight

[rigid moon]

plus seat fees cost money even when your not making anything, atleast unreal only earns money when you do so either you both win or both lose, unity seat costs means unity wins no matter if you win or lose

[scarlet heath]

2k per year and per seat

[frank iron]

if i am not making any game I will stop subscribing

[oblique marlin]

You've never been in a studio that was trying to get started and had an extremely tight budget?

[drifting gyro]

A mil in rev isn't a mil for you because literally everyone and their mother wants a cut, unity, steam,PayPal, the government (state and fed possibly twice if you are a company)

[native pendant]

I'm aware it won't be a mil. I would still happily retire. I'm a simple man.

[signal frost]

lets say, 30 devs and 2 mil, that's 60k in devs and for a 4% share it would be 80k so yeah you basically double the amount

[tacit tusk]

eveyone will just make their own choice... and thats fine.

[dire kindle]

Thank you sherlock

[edgy yew]

Yeah it isn't insignifcant

[drifting gyro]

Less than a mil isn't enough to retire unless you are close to dying sadly

[indigo sluice]

Every $$ counts but 4% of revenue putting them under is basically means their margin is less than 4%/
It's a lot of money but realistically the business model probably isn't working out if the margins are that low

[tacit tusk]

its PER YEAR too

[native pendant]

In dollars, no. In pounds, yes.

[echo thunder]

No in case if you live in cheaper coubtry

[steady owl]

Explainning Unity Engines in terms of Warhammer 40k Universe.

Unity - The Imperium of hUmaNITY: they control a vast part of Game Galaxy, their numbers are enormous. Actual in decadence because the Rulers gone greedy and corrupts, fighting in some many fronts (monetizing problem, multiplayer recently update after +2 years of deprecated the anterior, incomes crisis, new market challenges, etc.)

Godot - The Tau: They develop so fast than any civilization before, but still young to make front the atrocities of Gaming Galaxy (Console Dev, AAA games, AR-VR products) with their "greater good philosophy" (The open source software principle) are taking all the hUmaNITY habitants that are struggling in this eternal fight.

Unreal Engine - Aeldars: The most avanced civilization on galaxy, see the hUmaNITY like literal (Code)monkeys and has an excelent way to move through the galaxy (integrated multiplayer and app store system) . but they fear the moment of their end. A lustful god try to take their souls in a EPIC way.

Orks - The Boyz who make their own Engine: They don't want pay fees, the don't want "user friendly UI" They only want is code!

Necrons - people that use very old, but still functional libs like XNA, Monogame: Enigmatic devs that decide keep all the way simple to conquest the galaxy that was of them before.

[bitter tinsel]

any news-

[subtle aspen]

not yet stil lwaiting

[craggy rivet]

I’m out for dinner with family tonight but I’ll be back later this evening and probably over the weekend in case there’s an announcement and questions

[signal frost]

don't you only have to upgrade to pro if you made over a mil in the first place?

[edgy yew]

nothing yet

[rigid moon]

also btw in the leak unity isnt 4% rev share, its you pay instal fees until you pay $1mill THEN you pay 4%.

[frank iron]

come back in 2 days. its weekend. they not going to disturb your weekend.

[dire kindle]

Have a nice meal 🙂

[raw frigate]

they REALLY dont seem to wanna back down

[subtle aspen]

we have a fairly good idea that it'll be today

[oblique marlin]

With the old terms it was $100K

[echo thunder]

We DO NOT want any install fee!

[bitter tinsel]

It may be weekend for you rn but for americans it’s still friday and for me it’s friday too

they said they are waiting for Western US side ppl to wake up to

[rigid moon]

to bad hopefully you can afford 1mill in install fees before the 4% kicks in!

[frank iron]

it's near evening right in US

[native pendant]

Basically, if I hit around 700k. That's just over 18k per year wage from now until retirement. I am somewhat old so that would be fine for me 😛

[craggy rivet]

It’s currently morning west coast time

[tacit tusk]

let them show their hand, and then just choose - hopefully they won't drag this out much longer

[echo thunder]

In my country even that much money is a lot per year

[tired hedge]

What if unitey dont charge unless you make 1 mil then they keep 99%

[rigid moon]

not sure if you have heard of this thing called inflation

[native pendant]

I'm aware, but 18k is the peak. I can happily live lower 😛

[frank iron]

picking friday to announce any important news ? wednesday is better choose

[drifting gyro]

steam takes 30% tax is like 40% on that much

[dire kindle]

18k in 20 years will be around 12 or so Id imagine

[warm cloak]

20 minutes until Waimann. While he's not involved in Unity, it's our best lead at this point.

[tacit tusk]

if unity think tacking on a 4% revshare ontop of $2k per sear per year is going to fix their problems, I think they are sadly mistaken.

[inland basin]

@subtle aspen source?

[native pendant]

Yeah, roughly. Depending on how bad the government is then lmao

[zenith echo]

That’d do me about 3 months. 😆

[drifting gyro]

Unity now takes their 4% and if you use PayPal that's another 2.9

[subtle aspen]

https://twitter.com/willgoldstone/status/1705115457664036996

[craggy rivet]

Balancing timing is tricky, and impossible to win in that regard

[native pendant]

Well, for sure. It's all situational. Everyones situation is different so someone with like 4 kids, 18k is probably not enough etc

[craggy rivet]

I say that as part of one of the frontline teams, we’re the ones communicating with devs so it directly impacts us

[drifting gyro]

Best bet is to get a game that will give you a steady but modest income indefinitely that way everyone thinks you are poor and leaves you alone

[rigid moon]

do it when most people are asleep so the impact is lessened over time as not everyone reads it at once

[tacit tusk]

you workload will be decreased... less users = less comms

[warm cloak]

Y'all do fine work. I'm so sorry about the flack you folk have caught over the week.

[zenith echo]

I’d like to have some real first-world problems in my life. 😆

[signal frost]

18k would be my moms salary for 3 years

[craggy rivet]

Honestly people have been lovely to us. We’re just hurt seeing our devs hurt. But thank you!

[native pendant]

Same with my partners too. Lmao.

[frank iron]

18000 / 36 = 500

[craggy rivet]

My team are super close to the devs we work with 🥹

[drifting gyro]

To live in the US 25k is probably minimum and that's without a car

[frank iron]

do goverment give you anything if you are poor in US

[signal frost]

damn, life is cheap here so 500$ a month can get you by unless you want to buy anything unrelated to food or if something breaks

[drifting gyro]

Healthcare and some other welfare I think

[oblique marlin]

Poverty in the US these days is $27,750

[warm cloak]

Welfare? I think? I'm not sure, I'm AUS.

[echo thunder]

Are you ok mate

[rigid moon]

unitys pricing got people calculating poverty and retirment living plans.....

[zenith echo]

Actually, the current average minimal living wage in US is around $56K for a single adult.

[drifting gyro]

Rent alone doesn't go below 1k

[native pendant]

In the UK, slightly different. I don't need to drive, commute is so easy here. I got a train within 5 minutes and a bus to almost most cities around me that come between every 7 minutes and every 10.

[bronze magnet]

Sometimes they fly war machines over cities. That’s brought to us by the US govt

[signal frost]

we own a house so we only pay utilities here

[native pendant]

That also is a factor ^ I own my house too.

[drifting gyro]

That's not true I can budget for 35k without much difficulty it just doesn't include any savings or anything.

[edgy yew]

To be fair, they do that to everyone

[frank iron]

56k per year right ? for a single in network ?

[rigid moon]

if you all so good at budgeting then whats the problem with extra .20cents here and there to unity.

[edgy yew]

I've maintained from the beginning, what's a few tens of thousands of dollars between friends?

[echo thunder]

The problem is for F2P games who are badly monetized. And earned 200k only for Millions of installs

[warm cloak]

Not here or there. Everywhere. Every. Single. Time.

[dire kindle]

Friends don't stab you in the back, retroactively

[edgy yew]

CEO's need their boats, and here we are all living lavish lifestyles. Gotta redistribute that wealth

[vagrant egret]

They definitely need that money

[unreal scroll]

The better Question is why need unity these 20cents?

[echo thunder]

If the new announcement will involve any kind of install fee. I'll leave unity right away

[bronze magnet]

Especially if the precedent is established and that $10k can easily be turned into $100k

[fair tree]

Return Weta for a refund

[dire kindle]

1.5million unity developers. x0.2 x installs
hint: potentially alot

[frank iron]

is it ok for a company do not grow? can we ask unity do not expand their business just do the Editor.

[warm cloak]

!!! I figured it out! The Bond poster? It's a reference to paying the CEO enough money to put a base on the moon!

[oblique marlin]

Unity hasn't really been making money since they went all venture capitalist

[native pendant]

That's not a lot for indie devs. We all earn a lot of money, didn't you know?

[rigid moon]

since ceo bought a bunch of companies and doubled the employees of unreal engine*

[dire kindle]

extortion at the highest magnitude

[oblique marlin]

According to Aras it was profitable back when the company had ~500 employees. It's been a good decade since then.

[rigid moon]

now has 7000.

[signal frost]

what does unreal have to do with unity, I am suddenly confused

[oblique marlin]

Like I saw somewhere "Unity developers are the biggest fans of Unreal" 😛

[signal frost]

fr

[frank iron]

nothing, people just assume unity become fine like UE if they fire employee until its 300~

[zenith echo]

That’s not my opinion. It’s the calculation done by MIT. And that’s national average. Going to be higher and lower in places.

[frank iron]

how much is your lunch meal in US ?

in my country the price is 2.5 usd, dish including drinks.

[rigid moon]

my country its .20cents

[warm cloak]

Goodness! In Aus it's 17 bucks

[zenith echo]

If I eat out by myself around here, $10-20.

[tacit tusk]

in my country I have to pay unity $0.20

[oblique marlin]

Unfortunately, most people don't realize that Epic has way more than 300 employees: https://www.linkedin.com/company/epic-games/

[rigid moon]

unreal engine has 300ish, epic games has 4000ish

[native pendant]

Unity has 7k?

[oblique marlin]

According to that link Epic Games has 9,469

[frank iron]

ok, what is this 7,000 ? how many of them are working for unity engine ?

[warm cloak]

The amount of devs working on Fortnite is insane.

[native pendant]

EA has like 10K and they make games and have a bunch of studios iir

[signal frost]

ea eats money like bread

[drifting gyro]

Places like Cali probably skew the data, if you are trying to retire and live for cheap you won't live in cali

[native pendant]

Fifa makes them that bread

[edgy yew]

They also created the proposed pricing model 😄

[rigid moon]

where, got a quote you can copy? i only see upto 5k

[signal frost]

yeah I've heard, very nice of them

[drifting gyro]

Might also include savings

[oblique marlin]

Click the link earlier and look directly under the company name to the right of the followers count

[tacit tusk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj1DqaQlZCs - new delay

[tired hedge]

I don't know - Cali Colombia is pretty cheap

[zenith echo]

Any big city, really.

[rigid moon]

thats not accurate i could put on my account iwork for epic games and add one to that

[warm cloak]

Not as bad as last one, though. At least it aint an hour. 😂

[edgy yew]

In half expecting the announcement to be a change to paying them in Unity Bucks, so it is harder to track the real costs.

[oblique marlin]

shrugs It doesn't really matter in the end. Unity lacks the real source of finances: a money printing video game.

[tacit tusk]

yea, unity need to get off their asses and make a hit game , get some income

[thorny gazelle]

Epic games, not their unreal engine team

[drifting gyro]

Ya my sister lives in NY and her apt is like 4k (she has roommates obviously)

[rigid moon]

epic games also states Company size
1,001-5,000 employees

[oblique marlin]

There's no point in making a distinction because Unity the game engine doesn't have 7,000 people working on it. It's likely a few hundred and the rest is ads and other services.

[zenith echo]

I live in the rural sticks and remote work out of a medium city, so… it’s to my advantage with pay vs. cost-of-living. lol

[molten phoenix]

🥱

[warm cloak]

They got two hours until they're "late".

[rigid moon]

just for reference, unity has 7,703 employees, almost 2x as many as Epic, 7x as many as Rockstar had working on GTA5, and almost 4x as many people working at rockstar today.

[winged star]

nearly 8k

[zenith echo]

When’s stocks close? 😆

[ivory jewel]

~1,500 working on the engine afaik
should be ~100

[winged star]

I don't think it's ALMOST 2x, it's MORE THAN 2x

[rigid moon]

but 8k costing money doesnt matter what there doing.

[ivory jewel]

agreed, fire 7500 of them

[tacit tusk]

if they have 1500 people working on the engine, that is just total overkill - no wonder nothing ever gets done

[teal basin]

What make you think 100 persons is enough to make and maintain a game engine?

[subtle aspen]

dang was hoping for 10am on the dot

[ivory jewel]

1 guy is working on Flax in his spare time, and its catching up to unity. godot has maybe ~10 contributers

[rigid moon]

its not unreal engine has about 500

[cunning gorge]

godot has had 2k contributors and look how much it still needs to catch up

[vernal vortex]

I bet you can make a engine used by millions that supports basically all platforms with like 20 smart guys right?

[winged star]

how in the hell then they still have unimplemented stuff that they promised like 5+ years ago

[scarlet heath]

https://twitter.com/mikegeig/status/1705226917236945405

"good news"

[tacit tusk]

did I say that? no, I did not. I have however written game engines for many games, I've been writing games since 1988. I only said 1500 is overkill.

[oblique marlin]

I mean if we're going to look at contributors clearly Flax will be the most successful with only 52 😛

[winged star]

full time employees vs what's mostly probably people working for free in their free time?

[vernal vortex]

And I say for a engine the scope of Unity its perfectly reasonable.

[tacit tusk]

well, if unreal is made with a third of those numbers, and unity is years behind in tech, I would say... you are wrong.

[oblique marlin]

I just checked the careers page for Epic and they're trying to hire another 100 employees for Fortnite.

[winged star]

this is insanely unreasonable, that number might be reasonable for a modern OS, not a game engine

[leaden kestrel]

still no fuckin updates?

[thorny gazelle]

Obviously just seemed it was getting conflated with engine team

[cunning gorge]

nah it's been done the same ways since the dawn of man. last big update was the kama sutra

[leaden kestrel]

@oblique marlin oh shit - hey its you!

[oblique marlin]

We have to wait for John Riccitiello to finally wake up 😛

[warm cloak]

John Unity shall rise from the grave and utter the words of old: "Fuck you, pay me".

[leaden kestrel]

im frosted. and i'm really really sick of waiting in limbo on this. Project is literally on pause right now and its driving me nuts

[summer hill]

why would u pause it

[tacit tusk]

its going to be interesting to see what happens to the stock price if this is announced while the market is still open

[plucky ivy]

how much is it?

[leaden kestrel]

were weighing moving to unreal or not depending on how all this turns out

[oblique marlin]

Yeah I haven't been working on anything this entire time aside from poking around in Godot and Unreal. Oh and Flax.

[summer hill]

you could code while waiting for their decision

[edgy jetty]

it is too late , too many people left unity

[ivory jewel]

10 nearly full time, 2k people just making 1 commit ever isnt a big deal

[subtle aspen]

like 700

[warm cloak]

Yeah, it's something dumb like 700 devs just for Fortnite.

[delicate owl]

pretty good ROI

[leaden kestrel]

@summer hill the project is pretty far along already, just burying more work on it when we might completely jump ship is ridiculous. We have other projects running

[spark ravine]

24h was a lie

[teal basin]

Tried Unreal yesterday and it crashed after 20 minutes.

Assertion failed: Index == TypeIndex [File:D:\build++UE5\Sync\Engine\Source\Runtime\Core\Public\Misc\TVariant.h] [Line: 118]
Really fun time

[molten phoenix]

⏰

[cerulean lintel]

i imagine there third part contracts pay for most the salarys by default.

[cunning gorge]

yeah I'm looking at the stats now. Only about 50 people have more than 100 commits.

[leaden kestrel]

i found unreal pretty good to work with generally speaking

[spark ravine]

unreal work in nasa pc

[ivory jewel]

yup. why does unity need 1500? (i bet the stats are the same)

[molten phoenix]

You'd have to be more specific, general editor, 2d game focus, 3d game focus, cinematic/film, architecture, what particular?

[upper heart]

Soooooo any updates about the fee?

[plucky ivy]

i thought unity had 7700

[tacit tusk]

it can't be 1500 on the engine team, that is just insane numbers

[warm cloak]

Unreal's 2D capabilities scared the crap outta me.

[subtle aspen]

Today some time

[ivory jewel]

1500 on engine, 8000 employees

[native pendant]

I assume we get an update around 8 pm here. It's 6 pm now.

[quasi verge]

Doubt it

[oblique marlin]

I've mostly been trying to familiarize myself with the layout of everything again. It's been a while since I last touched Unreal.

[leaden kestrel]

i mostly did 3d game work mostly focused on blueprints - i would consider myself a newbie still, but it was a solid experience

[teal basin]

I mean you can make 2000 commits in one minute if you want. Doesn't mean I contribute a lot

[subtle aspen]

no it's pretty much confirmed to be today some time

[cunning gorge]

try it, they won't get PRed

[delicate owl]

most open sores projects have a very uneven distribution of contributors

[plucky ivy]

WAIT GUYS, captain america was also in the movie list!! right before the revenue share part! does this mean only americans have to pay the 4%?

[upper heart]

guys ping me when new news come out pls

[oblique marlin]

Theory is it means "capped" which is similar sounding to the shortened form of "captain"

[warm cloak]

Yeah, one person might drop 100 hrs of work in one commit, while another does 1000 drops of 3 lines.

[cunning gorge]

there's a news role for that

[molten phoenix]

no new delay yet
(2.5min)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj1DqaQlZCs

[teal basin]

What I mean you can make a PR with 25 commits and be completly fine while someone does one big commit. Most do an average but in both case, it is not a good representation of someone works

[spark ravine]

role : @📰 Unity News

[plucky ivy]

oh. i was hoping for my version

[upper heart]

oh

[leaden kestrel]

what are your thoughts on the alternatives? I downloaded a godot game the other day, "cassette beasts" - seemed like godot is reasonably capable of low poly at least

[jolly apex]

Just add the unity news role to your account and you will get pinged by unity

[molten phoenix]

anyone try O3DE yet?

[upper heart]

did it

[delicate owl]

deep cut

[oblique marlin]

Godot seems fine for small to medium games. Some of the analysis articles people have written concern me but I haven't seen any actual benchmarks.

[warm cloak]

I've got the tab open and am keeping an eye on whether it's actual news drop or just following along.

[tacit tusk]

wow, rollbacks

[elfin fox]

https://blog.unity.com/news/open-letter-on-runtime-fee

[leaden kestrel]

the plus for godot seems to be c# support. Otherwise I'd imagine anyone doing 3d should probably go to unreal

[molten phoenix]

so its posted

[craggy rivet]

Updates are live, folks. Thank you for the patience and feedback

[signal frost]

ah there we go

[teal basin]

pin pls

[tiny prism]

o

[drifting gyro]

Honestly that's the big brain strat, only downside is with remote work you always risk going insane with cabin fever if you don't get out much and live alone.

[cerulean lintel]

i hope the changes satisfy everyone :)

[tacit tusk]

is the CEO gone?

[scarlet heath]

there will be no Runtime Fee for games built on Unity Personal. We will be increasing the cap from $100,000 to $200,000 and we will remove the requirement to use the Made with Unity splash screen.

Ooooooh

[cunning gorge]

where's my pony tho

[subtle aspen]

For games that are subject to the runtime fee, we are giving you a choice of either a 2.5% revenue share or the calculated amount based on the number of new people engaging with your game each month. Both of these numbers are self-reported from data you already have available. You will always be billed the lesser amount.

[jagged turret]

https://blog.unity.com/news/open-letter-on-runtime-fee

[vernal vortex]

I wouldn’t say years behind. Unreal has it’s own problems. I have not seen a we’ll optimised AAA game made with unreal come out in like 6 years.

[quasi verge]

This real?!

[plucky ivy]

is splash screen removed for unity personal too now??? i dont understand

[tacit tusk]

in render tech, unity is years behind. (imho)

[molten phoenix]

they certainly put a foot forward

[teal basin]

Oh 2.5% revenue share

[warm cloak]

I don't hate this! This is good!

[craggy rivet]

I’ll be around for questions and stuff later but I hope this settles some worries

[tacit tusk]

is that just for unity 2024?

[elfin fox]

It's posted on their blog so yes

[craggy rivet]

Been a stressful couple weeks for us

[molten phoenix]

thats fine, 2017, 2019 and 2021 are seemingly best versions anyways

always open to checking out newer and newer if they are better

[plucky ivy]

wtf. 🤢

[craggy rivet]

2024 onwards

[rigid moon]

For games that are subject to the runtime fee, we are giving you a choice of either a 2.5% revenue share or the calculated amount based on the number of new people engaging with your game each month. Both of these numbers are self-reported from data you already have available.

so they are still tracking "people engaging with your game each month"

[native pendant]

Here we go

[subtle aspen]

that's opens up a whole new question about "what engagement"

[edgy yew]

Very interesting changes. Weird though. So benefits personal users a lot, which is good. Looks like only pro and enterprise will have a Rev share of 2.5%. I think most people will be happy, although I'm not a fan of subscription AND Rev share. But it's better.

[signal frost]

not bad tbh

[tacit tusk]

its still very light on detail 😦

[cunning gorge]

head to the fireside chat

[scarlet heath]

It's satisfactory to me.

I like it

[slim dock]

<@&1152203408984510475>
Hi everyone, we just published an open letter for our community about changes we’re making to the Unity Runtime Fee pricing policy that we announced last week. These changes were made based on your feedback, and we want to ensure you’re aware. Please also consult our FAQ for additional information.

If you have any questions about these changes, please let us know here in our **forum thread ** so we can address them. Please note that it might take some time before we are able to respond.

We also invite you to join us for a live fireside chat with Marc Whitten, President of Unity Create, hosted by Jason Weimann, industry veteran and content creator, on his YouTube channel, today at 4:00 pm ET/ 1:00 pm PT.

[rigid moon]

its 2.5% OR per install (or per engagement however they define that)

[edgy yew]

Doesn't change our path though, we are out because of the industry pricing change. But it'll make most others happy I think.

[teal basin]

Self reported. So with the data you have from the store

[grizzled dawn]

:O

[craggy rivet]

My understanding is splash screen will be optional across tiers

[drifting gyro]

Yooooooo

[molten phoenix]

splash screen removal for personal in pre 2024 versions?

[edgy yew]

That is a big one

[signal frost]

they should've done this from the beginning tbh

[harsh solstice]

unfortunately already godot-pilled, later

[subtle aspen]

why can't they just tell us what info they want to track, like engagement is a weird word, it's kinda vague, people engage with games in a lot of ways

[cunning gorge]

fireside chat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj1DqaQlZCs

[rigid moon]

thats your guess, and if its still 20cents per engagment? idk

[arctic isle]

https://twitter.com/mikegeig/status/1705226917236945405

[scarlet heath]

fireside chat is live

[warm cloak]

Hot damn, this is good.

[signal frost]

I don't think so

[native pendant]

Actually, I'm statisfied with this thus far

[plucky ivy]

#bankruptcy

[placid moss]

so the 20cent stay per install? 😄

[tiny prism]

no

[upper heart]

im not, the runtime fee is still here, they just are trying to calm it down by deleteing the splash screen

[teal basin]

You choose and not in personnel

[native pendant]

No game with less than $1 million in trailing 12-month revenue will be subject to the fee.

[signal frost]

up until 2.5%, which one is smaller, and you report both numbers yourself

[rigid moon]

per "engagement", not install

[tired yacht]

its only in newer versions in unity why would anyone upgrade then?

[elfin fox]

The new rules are sort of good

[tiny prism]

For games that are subject to the runtime fee, we are giving you a choice of either a 2.5% revenue share or the calculated amount based on the number of new people engaging with your game each month. Both of these numbers are self-reported from data you already have available.

[signal frost]

define engagement

[indigo sluice]

What should we be outraged about now?

[tiny prism]

uhhhh Unity bad!!!

[fallen depot]

Thank god this sounds way more reasonable

[foggy haven]

per unique user (could be sale or initial download)

[frosty wind]

honestly these rules are.. fine

[distant cosmos]

so splash screen can be removed from personal edition??

[rigid moon]

why not just sale?

[grizzled dawn]

They gonna ask the users for that?

[delicate owl]

More details to come: https://unity.com/pricing-updates

[subtle aspen]

but not defined, same issue we had before with "install"

[icy roost]

https://blog.unity.com/news/open-letter-on-runtime-fee

[tired yacht]

"The Runtime Fee policy will only apply beginning with the next LTS version of Unity shipping in 2024 and beyond" time to never update

[indigo sluice]

Cause mobile games are free

[plucky ivy]

unreal being bad and catering to film industry. lets boycott them now

[foggy haven]

it's self-reported, read the FAQ

[rigid moon]

so your still charged per download in f2p games....

[grizzled dawn]

I wonder how genuine will self reports go

[waxen reef]

so will everyone be using 2022 LTS then to avoid the fee or it doesn’t really matter anymore?

[indigo sluice]

Or you can choose 2.5% revenue share

[foggy haven]

and 2.5% gross revenue cap ^

[upper heart]

Wait soooooooo it will only work from LTS 2024 and up?

The Runtime Fee policy will only apply beginning with the next LTS version of Unity shipping in 2024 and beyond. Your games that are currently shipped and the projects you are currently working on will not be included – unless you choose to upgrade them to this new version of Unity.```

[tired yacht]

if you use the new version fo unity

[arctic isle]

I compiled the 3 mosts important points here:

Our Unity Personal plan will remain free and there will be no Runtime Fee for games built on Unity Personal. We will be increasing the cap from $100,000 to $200,000 and we will remove the requirement to use the Made with Unity splash screen.

The Runtime Fee policy will only apply beginning with the next LTS version of Unity shipping in 2024 and beyond. Your games that are currently shipped and the projects you are currently working on will not be included – unless you choose to upgrade them to this new version of Unity.

For games that are subject to the runtime fee, we are giving you a choice of either a 2.5% revenue share or the calculated amount based on the number of new people engaging with your game each month. Both of these numbers are self-reported from data you already have available. You will always be billed the lesser amount.

[icy roost]

No game with less than $1 million in trailing 12-month revenue will be subject to the fee.

[rigid moon]

no its choosen whatever is lowest. you dont choose, you have to track both and pay the least

[craggy rivet]

Right I’m logging off actually now, see you folks later. Again, thanks for all the patience and feedback

[molten phoenix]

splash removed from Personal starts in LTS version releasing in 2024, not older versions

[winged star]

you report that number instead of relying on "trust me bro" system

[cerulean lintel]

pretty much give us a reasonable number.

[grizzled dawn]

Doesn't matter for Unity personal since it will stay free with no fee.

[warm cloak]

Important wording here "2.5% rev or runtime fee, whichever is lesser"

[craggy rivet]

And please be nice to the Unity folks in here 💛

[foggy haven]

2023 LTS

[signal frost]

no it's LTS 2023 which gets released in 2024

[icy roost]

none of you read the new letter LOL its fucking amazing how you can all sit here and not read something from Unity
https://blog.unity.com/news/open-letter-on-runtime-fee

[cerulean lintel]

2023 LTD will release next year.

[subtle aspen]

How do I report my data?
Both revenue and initial engagements are self-reported. We will work with customers and partners to develop tools and processes to make this as easy as possible for customers.

Does installing the same game on multiple devices count towards the Unity Runtime Fee?
Multiple device initial engagements from the same distribution channel count as a single initial engagement. Initial engagements from separate distribution channels count separately.

sounds like it's per download, like if i Download a game on steam it's 1 no matter what pc i do it on, but if i do it on epic it counds as a seperate engagement

[misty shale]

https://unity.com/runtime-fee-estimator

[signal frost]

yes but you can always upgrade to 2023 LTS

[cerulean lintel]

i’m not sure if the splash screen option is retroactive.

[pliant raven]

This is pretty reasonable. Only applies to 2024 LTS which makes it perfectly valid to introduce a fee structure.

I do however hope this means the ToS will be changed so we get a perpetual license or whatever is needed to not be at risk of a future "California law says we can do whatever".

But this is good. Much better than expected.

[upper heart]

wait so all 2023 LTS will have the fee? (The older lts's SUCK)

[molten phoenix]

It is NOT, applies to LTS version releasing in 2024, currently referred to as 2023 LTS, or later

[icy roost]

For games that are subject to the runtime fee, we are giving you a choice of either a 2.5% revenue share or the calculated amount based on the number of new people engaging with your game each month. Both of these numbers are self-reported from data you already have available. You will always be billed the lesser amount.

[rigid moon]

so you have to report both, you dont choose, you only pay the least amount

[keen nova]

Love the bew Fee, thats perfect ❤️

[distant cosmos]

is that on any unity version or only 2023 lts?

[grizzled dawn]

Unity personal just got better than ever before though.

[icy roost]

who cares? just do the 2.5% revenue share

[slim dock]

Enjoy your evening!

[signal frost]

yeah that's cool

[jagged turret]

how much will pro be ?

[upper heart]

rendering issues. Also if i use the current LTS would i still get a fee?

[cerulean lintel]

i’m glad everyone seems to be happy with the changes :)

[ivory jewel]

dumped my puts, thanks for the $ unity.

[rigid moon]

you still have to track and report downloads and pay per download if its less then 2.5%

[icy roost]

read
https://blog.unity.com/news/open-letter-on-runtime-fee

[warm cloak]

I can go to sleep now 🥹

[olive oyster]

i just uninstalled godot. hello again Unity

[plucky ivy]

i was so close to happiness till i realized the 2k fee is still there if i cant upgrade to 2023 lts

[keen nova]

They take the minimum 2.5% vs sale count amount, thats perfect!

[grizzled dawn]

I still have trust issues lol. Can we get better ToS please?

[signal frost]

no, you still have the current TOS unless you upgrade to LTS 2023

[upper heart]

im not, ): i still dont like the fee. I guess its better than it was before but its still not that good

[cerulean lintel]

upgrade to the latest i promise it’ll be good :)

[tiny prism]

welp gg folks I can't be mad anymore

[plucky ivy]

i cant just upgrade halfway tho, i cant spend time fixing everything that might break

[subtle aspen]

if the choice of rev share or engagement is actually a choice, the wordage feels word "you will be charged the least amount" however worded nicely it sounds more like we don't get a choice it's picked for s

[signal frost]

I would have to learn how to do that but hopefully everything works the same

[ivory jewel]

there's a rendertexture memory leak on the latest lts..
Crashes all games after a few hours

[rough reef]

no splashscreen?

[cerulean lintel]

unity is constantly upgraded and becoming a better product with more value. i think it’s reasonable that it costs a little more than it did before.

[upper heart]

so would if i use this version would i get the fee or not? (2022.3.7f1)

[signal frost]

no

[cunning gorge]

2023LTS and on

[vestal dune]

Okay, so, sketchball install tracking is gone, the worst case scenario is half of Unreal's rev share plan, and people just over the Plus line get to go back to personnal instead of being forced to up to pro. Everything seems resolved then

[frosty wind]

so when is that splash screen feature releasing? (or lack there of)

[raven burrow]

does this mean we win?

[subtle aspen]

a 2.5% rev share is exactly what I wanted, but the engagement side of it is strange still

[cerulean lintel]

is there’s a bug report for this?

[plucky ivy]

can older unity lts versions remove splash screen for free too? or do they still gotta fork over 2k?

[oblique marlin]

Unity Personal is basically Unity Plus but now free (no subscription OR runtime).

[upper heart]

YAY! Nvm unity is still great XD

[summer hill]

They gave a lot

[cerulean lintel]

clone you’re project and then build it see what happens.

[nocturne crow]

Our Unity Personal plan will remain free and there will be no Runtime Fee for games built on Unity Personal. We will be increasing the cap from $100,000 to $200,000 and we will remove the requirement to use the Made with Unity splash screen.

No game with less than $1 million in trailing 12-month revenue will be subject to the fee.

Seem weird. Did this mean we need to upgrade to Pro when reach $200000 but don't need to send 2.5% revenue ?

[raven burrow]

hello aimy. aren't you still on vacation?

[cunning gorge]

it's been great meeting y'all, hopefully I never engage with any of you maniacs again.

[cerulean lintel]

yes :)

[upper heart]

well ill see if i apporve depending on how good the next updates are

[lusty kayak]

Is this a fucking joke?

[foggy haven]

correct, runtime fee starts at 1 million

[warm cloak]

A potentially dumb question but is the 2023 LTS out yet or is that slated for 2024?

[latent elk]

Yes. You need to upgrade to Pro when 200k is reached. But then it's free sailing until 1 million.

[raven burrow]

calm down man.

[cunning gorge]

2024

[signal frost]

yeah, pro after 200k no fee until 1 mil

[foggy haven]

it's the 2023 LTS

[rough reef]

damn

[undone jewel]

This is actually a pretty decent change 👍

[slim dock]

I believe the FAQ says "we will remove the requirement to use the Made with Unity splash screen (starting with the LTS version releasing in 2024, currently referred to as the 2023 LTS, or later)."
so no, it might not include older versions. But I can ask internally to be sure

[rigid moon]

wait 1 yr from now hope they dont bring back retroactive TOS or increase 2.5% to 10% or disable using old versions of unity. or something.

[grizzled dawn]

Well unity is no longer royalty free then. But the company was always at loss so reasonable I suppose.

[lusty kayak]

No seriously, they didn’t get rid of the runtime fee at all, and it’s such a terrible idea to begin with why didn’t they do something else? Wtf?

[ionic yoke]

So the splash screen removal, can be done only from 2023 lts and so on ? or is it possible in 2022 for example ?

[tacit tusk]

well, the ToS lock-in to unity versions is good. rebuilds some trust.

[raven burrow]

bro this is literally a complete and total victory.

[rigid moon]

to encourage people to upgrade

[proven elbow]

They did not mention anywhere that they have changed the ToS so this will never happen again.
Which means they can go rogue on their community again.

[brazen pawn]

"we will remove the requirement to use the Made with Unity splash screen."
never thought id live long enough to see that.

[summer hill]

so its either 2.5% rev share or self reported sales ?

[wispy blade]

1️⃣ if you still don't trust them and still don't want to use unity anymore
2️⃣ if you think these new changes are good and are considering continuing to use unity in the future

Just curious.

[daring plinth]

Well you can pay 2.5% if you don't want runtime fee to be made

[ivory jewel]

yea, its a the top of the urp forums too

[nocturne crow]

Thank you very much

[molten phoenix]

Honestly if you can have that go back to older versions of Unity, I think it'd go a long way for a relatively easy change from higher up at Unity.

And its in Unity's best interests, both because of the association of Unity with a bunch of free/smaller games and people not understanding Unity's TRUE power potential, so its great for the user, and the company

[misty shale]

You only need to send 2.5% once your game exceeds $1,000,000 USD gross revenue (trailing 12 months) AND your game has over 1,000,000 initial engagements (live to date) AND your game is created in the 2023 LTS release or later.

This estimator is helpful IMHO: https://unity.com/runtime-fee-estimator

[smoky escarp]

Wait, I don't get it, they'll remove the splash screen from personal too? btw, what are your guys opinions?

[grizzled dawn]

Just stick to unity personal.

[oblique marlin]

It's royalty free until you hit $1,000,000

[frosty wind]

so it the splashscreen removal already avalible

[wary pumice]

unity really just said "im gon kms"

[slim dock]

Yea according to the FAQ is only 2023 and on

[rigid moon]

its both, track and report both, and pay the lesser fee

[cunning gorge]

2023LTS+

[lusty kayak]

Yeah that’s fine but absolutely they should have gotten rid of the runtime fee all together.

[vestal dune]

I mean, 2.5% rev share is pretty reasonable and better than Unreal's 5%, and it's no longer retroactive

[daring plinth]

As a Certified Unity Instructor, I'm really satisfied with how it turned out

[brazen pawn]

fuck unity still. next time they feel like it, they're gonna pull uncalled for stuff again

[tiny prism]

The fee is capped at 2.5%, is self reported and is only on the next year's LTS

[slim dock]

I'll share this internally, thank you!

[indigo sluice]

you're missing the didn't really care and would have kept using unity anyway

[raven burrow]

we literally completely win quit ur complaining

[summer hill]

is this more profitable to them than previous pricing tho ?

[frosty wind]

so whenever unity 2023 becomes lts?

[lusty kayak]

Yea I will use that. However the runtime fee still being an option is just ridiculous

[wispy blade]

the poll isnt for that group, im curious about the people who have more extreme opinions

[daring plinth]

I know but now it's optional. I know that every time someone mentiones runtime fee I'll be triggered, but still I'm saying it's a big win

[rigid moon]

your still paying per "engagement" (20cents i assume its still is) so its same profitable

[keen nova]

Perfect update Unity ! Love it! My team and me continue with Unity. ❤️

[nocturne crow]

Yes, they removing plus show their greed too obvious

[molten phoenix]

Now how do we go back and pretend September 12 didnt happen so we can just have the good news vibes forever?

[summer hill]

I mean the pricing before the runtime fee annoucement

[vestal dune]

It's an option. If you think your game is low enough on a per-user bases, you can opt in to a lower fee than the revenue share

[drifting gyro]

Rip webgl has to pay again

[old belfry]

honestly i think this is good

[distant cosmos]

holy moly this made unity personal better than before

[daring plinth]

That wouldn't make much of a sense. Splash screen removal is mostly there because plus plan is being retired

[oblique marlin]

That requires people making asset flips to actually update their crap games. 😛

[cerulean lintel]

i’m sure it’s being worked on then. once i’m off holiday i’ll chase it.

[rigid moon]

f5=engagements! 20cents.

[sick gyro]

I don't think so. If they end up in such a situation again, they won't be coming back, and they know it.

[lusty kayak]

It should have been optional from the beginning. I’m still frustrated as hell from their backwards thinking. The ceo and everyone involved in this decision should honestly be fired, for ruining the reputation of unity.

[dry pine]

Wait guys, we dont have to use the unity splash screen anymore? Im so happy right now omg.

[drifting gyro]

It's new users and self reported so that wouldn't work

[foggy haven]

personal is the new plus you heard it here first

[slim dock]

I'll share it internally, np 🙂

[ivory jewel]

i believe its been fixed for the next LTS lol, im just saying your advice of upgrading to latest is usualy bad advice for unity. there's always some bug - always check the known issues list

[old belfry]

yeah they basically made plus free

[raven swift]

W Unity

[upper heart]

Wait, are they going to count steam revenue?

[summer hill]

complete mood reversal among freemium users

[nocturne crow]

I am really OK with this agreement. Now the only problem is Riccitiello, he still being CEO so it still risk the weird ToS or policy change nightmare like this can be recurring

[sick gyro]

Well I wasn't expecting such a good change, so definitely a W in my book

[rigid moon]

webgl counts as engagements, it says so on the website

[edgy yew]

That could/would be a lot of work for them. I thinkt hey should leave that in versions going forward, it also incentivizes people to upgrade their unity and try new features in exchange for free removal of the splash

[native pendant]

Okay, after going through this. I'm happy. This helps for the rest of the dev of my game. Also massive thanks to Unity devs as I'm 100% these guys put in most of this work if I'm gonna be honest with voicing concerns

[static sedge]

right direction, back to work ❤️

[foggy haven]

all self reported

[lusty kayak]

I’m going to have to look more into it to see how these systems work but my frustration still stands. As a new game dev I still can’t trust Unity.

[bitter tinsel]

how is the new changes guys

[drifting gyro]

Ya but it says new users so you couldn't just spam f5

[plucky ivy]

amazing. redemption arc has begun

[rigid moon]

but how are we spose to count engagements? however we want to?

[signal frost]

we won this fight

[summer hill]

i hope there will be no ways to cheat with self reports

[visual stag]

Totally agree.

[bitter tinsel]

i personally liked it especially the 2.5% revenue share. But i didnt really see if they specified to share 2.5% gross revenue every quarter or month..

[edgy yew]

The Industry pricing change is still pushing us out, but assuming they don't backtrack on this in a week, I think this will make people confused but happy

[old belfry]

- Unity Personal is now the same as old Unity Plus, but it's free
- No revenue for Personal at all
- At $200k you have to move to Pro
- With Pro you pay from 1mil and up
- You can decide if u want to do 2.5% rev or based on install count
- you can choose to stay on an old versions TOS

this is basically it if i read it correctlyy, very good update

[lusty kayak]

Still frustrating to a degree

[rigid moon]

self reports dont matter that much its whatever the rules are on what we are meant to report.

[drifting gyro]

You would need to spam whatever command it is to reset your IP address and then f5 ;)

[dry pine]

I was literally switching to unreal, but now im definitely staying with unity

[bitter tinsel]

i cant read the letter...

[bitter tinsel]

did they specify if we pay every quarter or month

[foggy haven]

There will be more information from us to help out with that, but it's different for each platform.

[signal frost]

I think you just look at the number of purchases on each platform

[old belfry]

@unborn moat LOL

[surreal basin]

what about the shady ToS changes ?

[sick gyro]

I don't think they will mess is up again. Cause it would surely be a nail to the coffin if this happens again.

[vestal dune]

If I'm reading it right it's per year?

[honest meadow]

REVENUE SHARE OPTION!!!!

[rigid moon]

no they would say purchases if they wanted to do purchases, they said engagements

[foggy haven]

yes!

[bitter tinsel]

whats the summary?

[bitter tinsel]

2.5% year gross revenue share?

[signal frost]

I'm pretty sure that on the 2.5% thing, it's either 2.5% or install count, which one is smaller, not which one you choose (then again you wouldn't choose the more expensive option)

[keen nova]

More money to Unity = more features, Im good with that !

[distant cosmos]

so i am guessing the unity personal before 2024 is still on the old TOS and it will not have ability to remove splash screen?

[foggy haven]

it's monthly at the moment I believe

[sick gyro]

I am using an older version, which is 2021.x. Will I be able to remove the splash screen as well?

[vestal dune]

I think so, it's worded strangely. It's either "2.5% revenue share or the calculated amount based on the number of new people engaging with your game each month." the fact that the alternative mentions per month leads me to believe the rev share is not per month?

[honest meadow]

what about being able to port to console with unity personal?

[summer hill]

so how are we going to self-report engagements/installs ? i think people will just report less than they really have

[tacit tusk]

this is locked behind pro.

[rigid moon]

secret atm

[latent elk]

Purchases don't work with f2p games. Hence engagement. As an example a paid game on steam would have purchase as fullfilling the engagement definition iirc. It depends on your game. And even if the engagement definitions don't fit your platform it's 2.5% in the worst possible case.

[drifting gyro]

Big brain strat: make your game with 2022 and then after you have a niche die hard audience who already downloaded upgrade to 23

[rigid moon]

charge 20cent per microtransaction then? (or just keep it 2.5%)

[summer hill]

switching between TOSes/unity versions for projects possible ?

[bitter tinsel]

k, its great then! I will obviously choose the revenue share option because it will be times easier to calculate. Great change!

Worth money since Unity has a lot of great features and addon supprt

[craggy rivet]

You will remain under the terms of the applicable Unity version you use

[sweet minnow]

hey just to make sure, the personal limit is now 200k for every version, right? because plus doesn't exist anymore, which the old tos would have required you to buy after 100k

[drifting gyro]

Ik it says you can upgrade doesn't specify downgrades unless I missed it

[foggy haven]

when you upgrade and publish the ToS of the version you upgrade to with apply

[edgy jetty]

haha riccitello what happened

[edgy yew]

yup

[wide cradle]

Big W

[bitter tinsel]

do i need to earn 200k$ lifetime to buy unity pro?

[dry pine]

Hey, does unity remove the splash screen for old unity version or for only 2024 versions?

[lusty kayak]

I’m also okay with that, I just want it to be done the right way.

[smoky escarp]

I really like this new announcement lol

[tawdry dirge]

bye bye channel. you'll not be missed 👋

[edgy yew]

trailing 12 months

[tiny prism]

I love John Unity

[foggy haven]

right now no, we'll circulate this internally but not promises

[sick gyro]

Hoping for that too... I am using 2021.x.

[tacit tusk]

its 2023LTS+ to remove it, they answered it

[summer hill]

then people wont ever upgrade to 2024

[grizzled dawn]

Even though Unity personal is better than ever before now, I still wanted everything to go back to how it was before the announcement for some reason lol

[sweet minnow]

I see this new changes are incredibly generous I hate that they were done this way, but still allowing them to make money and not pissing off every developer, I count that as a Win not a small one, but not a big one either

[misty shale]

Yes, so March -> March, April ->

[upper heart]

no probably not, that wouldn't make sense. They delete it because you get feed

[weary oxide]

what you guys think of the changes so far? free to remove unity splash screen?

[edgy yew]

Yup. I will say, it is very generous, basically all Personal users just got upgraded to Plus for free

[sick gyro]

Thank you!

[bitter tinsel]

unity employee!!!!!!

[tawdry dirge]

unity just saved me money for not paying for plus. very smart business move

[old belfry]

all good, drama is over, continue as usual

[knotty coral]

Do we still need to go online to use unity?

[rigid moon]

probably

[cunning gorge]

this pleases me. gonna buy back my shares.

[hardy remnant]

This, can we still complain about this? :^)

[nocturne crow]

Aside from Riccitiello, I still fear the IronSource spyware. I would add that we will need to see the investigation on unity next LTS that the build are not have any spyware reporting something we don't expect
(Yes I am forestalling, please know that we still not trust you)

[full oriole]

Once every 30 days from what I can see

[compact merlin]

Such a good announcement

[grizzled dawn]

Oh please no. Can we request to make editor offline since they didn't mention that yet

[radiant marten]

someone give me a tldr of the unity announcement pls

[summer hill]

just read it its short...

[lusty kayak]

I’ve still got some serious issues with it

[smoky escarp]

copied from a redit comment:

Devs will pay the lesser of 2.5% revenue or the install fees if revenue is above $1,000,000 (self reported in both cases)

No install fees below $1,000,000 at all

Unity free can now remove splash screen

Fees only apply to 2024 LTS and later - nothing retroactive

Users are going to be on the same TOS as their Unity version.

[molten phoenix]

Can we remove the Online requirement for Unity Editor, please?

[sick gyro]

Like what?

[sweet minnow]

I think they were focused more on the important stuff, give them time

[summer hill]

why some people say 200k and others 1mil, when are these different numbers applicable

[silent raptor]

seriously? What is this? How are people okay with this?
Also, is the unity program itself blocks you off you if you don't connect online?
Mine keeps constantly signing in and I pretty much sign off everytime I work

[lusty kayak]

The fact they still want to use the runtime fee and didn’t get rid of it completely

[smoky escarp]

yep, that sucks

[sweet minnow]

and for every pro user this announcement is good as well. 2.5% is a small rev cap ensuring no one gets hurt from this policy

[latent elk]

200k means you need to purchase Pro. After you have done that you need to reach 1 million to be subject to the fees.

[cerulean lintel]

things will always slip through the cracks unfortunately.

[summer hill]

you can choose to use rev share instead

[arctic isle]

You have the choice
For some devs the runtime fee can be lower than the rev share, I don't see how it's bad to let these devs have the choice

[nocturne crow]

• 200k then you need to go pro
• 1m then you need to also rev share

[grizzled dawn]

Couldn't settle with just revshare...

[vestal dune]

At 200K, you must have Unity Pro as before, but there is no revenue share or runtime fee. At $1M, in addition to pro, you are also subject to the rev share or runtime fee, whichever is lower

[bitter tinsel]

can you add No Runtime Fee feature to unity custom license?

[cerulean lintel]

some company’s won’t wanna report there revenue to us :)

[limber widget]

oh that is quite good would need to read new TOS but just by giving the choice to people to not update and use the old TOS is already a Big Plus

[teal basin]

Starting in November 2023, Unity Personal customers will get a new sign-in and online customer experience. Customers will need to be signed into the Hub with their Unity ID and connect to the internet to use Unity. If the internet connection is lost, customers may continue using Unity for up to thirty (30) days while offline. More details to come.
https://unity.com/pricing-updates

So 30 days

[sick gyro]

I mean yes, but you can choose to use rev share only I think

[signal frost]

honestly all these changes only benefit me

[ivory jewel]

unreal doesnt have this problem

[vestal dune]

I mean, it's revshare or less. If you don't like the idea of the install fee, just don't do it?

[latent elk]

You mean the "Contact sales" option? I guess anything can be negotiated there. But my clothing is not fine looking enough to even speculate how those would go.

[lusty kayak]

It shows how stubborn the higher ups are and just how little they know about software distribution, the decision needs to be gutted out of Unity’s history.

[rigid moon]

you still have to report income how else do you know "engagements are less then 2.5%"?

[bitter tinsel]

oh k

[vestal dune]

Because Unreal doesn't offer them the choice. Unity is allowing them to not report the revenue if they'd rather pay the runtime fee.

[teal basin]

And it is a lot cheaper for most. Just pay 2.5% if you want to give us more money 😉

[thorny dew]

now you know what I was talking about, heh heh

[lusty kayak]

I will, but I realistically shouldn’t have to worry about decisions like this in the future.

[smoky escarp]

Yep, but Unreal gets 5%, Unity will get 2.4%

[weary oxide]

well how can i port my game that ported godot back to unity?

[upper heart]

there is one?

[nocturne crow]

They said runtime fee instead of install fee. That slightly difference but make it more acceptable

[summer hill]

but isnt runtime fee also self reported? or is it not

[grizzled dawn]

Unity charging half the revshare of unreal huh.

[misty shale]

I will continue to encourage people to look at the estimator! 🙂 imho it does a great job at clarifying questions on the different variables: https://unity.com/runtime-fee-estimator

[ivory jewel]

unity gets 2.5 + a year fee per seat for your developers..

[rigid moon]

need to login online at least once every 30 days

[sweet minnow]

thanks to you unity people btw, I'm sure you fought internally for us as well and were the people on the front line of this whole massacre, this is something that should be noted highly

[drifting gyro]

Lol gambling is exempt

[lusty kayak]

I’ve never been more motivated in my life to learn how to create my own engine down the line. Hopefully this won’t happen again.

[upper heart]

bro what, i was logged in for like 3 years now and i never logged out XD

[molten phoenix]

Was 3 days on Sept12.
Today (Sept22), its been extended to 30 days.

[brave turret]

self-reporting is different than doing a full audit. In most cases the big companies will opt to go with the runtime fee because it will be much cheaper

[sand fjord]

Same

[weary oxide]

most important thing is that you can remove the splash screen for free

[sick gyro]

If it is proven to be reliable it can actually be a better option than rev share. It depends how this plays out once this policy is fully operational. It is also self report, so it is a lot more safe to be honest

[azure stone]

A big backtrack, I'm surprised they went this far. I'm happily in unreal for over a year now, but I'm relieved that my first game published in Feb 2022 isn't going to be affected. I'm also pleased that the staff at unity are likely a lot more content now than this time yesterday.

[vestal dune]

Correct. But both are also subject to audits, as most financial self-reporting is, and intentionally misrepresenting the data can lead to legal trouble

[visual stag]

Pretty much what Visual Studio requires of us as well (don't recall if it's 60 days or 90 days)

[misty shale]

I will pass this along! Thank you 🫶

[boreal pilot]

this is a better deal than revshare, its just unfortunate that they're branding it as a runtime fee instead of baking it into the editor licenses

[bitter tinsel]

give him unity admin role some1

[patent wasp]

So if I understand correctly, it's either 2.5% rev share or per install?

[smoky escarp]

You're right, but i'm still happy with these new changes, I absolutely love Unity and its flexibility, it's a price worth to pay

[placid moss]

i dont trust it

[grizzled dawn]

Is there a cap to the fee or it will just keep ramping up?

[brave turret]

Correct.

[bitter tinsel]

2.5% cap

[summer hill]

that news is really cool

[distant zealot]

this sounds good to me

[cerulean lintel]

from what i’ve heard they do 🤷‍♀️

[stark mica]

The news is great but don't anyone think it's a bit weird that you pay more for pro and enterprise just to pay them even more through runtime fees

[lusty kayak]

Everyone is going to do that now cause they want no association with Unity after this

[latent elk]

Per engagement. Definition of which is bit more open. As an example iirc on Steam like platforms it just means purchase of the game or in case of f2p new unique user or whatnot.

[sweet minnow]

thanks this is something you people ( I don't want to say devs, it is not only devs) should know

[bitter tinsel]

and for most it will be far less than 2.5%, since except for on mobile CPI will be really cheap

[proud abyss]

we will remove the requirement to use the Made with Unity splash screen.

there was a requirement to use the splash screen?

[smoky escarp]

btw, when will the splash screen be 'removable'? on next version i guess?

[summer hill]

maybe this is to create a strong distinction between freemiums and premiums users

[nocturne crow]

Being self reported still need to have evidence I think. They can estimated and you need to provide evidence such as accounting and banking transaction. This is something Autodesk normally did

[brave turret]

This is a good question to ask Marc during the AMA!

[cerulean lintel]

we’ve done our best and personally i’m pretty happy with the outcome :)

[cerulean lintel]

yes :)

[boreal pilot]

on unity personal there was

[ivory jewel]

as an asset store developer, im glad i no longer have to update my assets past unity 2022. thanks unity

[smoky escarp]

great!!!

[proud abyss]

oh shit, does that mean we can remove it now without being on unity pro or whatever?

[drifting gyro]

If you use unity 22 for a while and get let's say 2m users and then upgrade to unity 23, update your game and get 1m more new users (old ones continue to play the game so 3m active total) will you pay only pay for the new 1m or would you also need to pay for the old ones?

[lusty kayak]

I’m going to have to learn multiple engines after this just so I can stay flexible and not be so rigid in a singular engine.

[raven burrow]

(did you do anything to change the outcome?)

[cunning gorge]

2023LTS+

[scarlet cradle]

Next time... Keep that former EA CEO in check

[nocturne crow]

Kind of a way to apologize for all these scandal they did

[bitter tinsel]

ima go make a tiktok video dedicated to this topic

[boreal pilot]

only when you're on the next years version

[proud abyss]

dope

[cerulean lintel]

there was a lot of internal company wide discussion.

[candid sparrow]

well then, this is a better ending than i thought

[patent wasp]

Is there a sliding scale? Like if I have a unique F2P user who buys a $1 IAP, will that count for 20¢?

[spark ravine]

will runtime fees apply to personal in next lts ?

[rigid moon]

https://unity.com/sites/default/files/2023-09/09_22_RuntimeFees_Schedule (1)_0.jpg

engagement fees in new system.

[placid moss]

or more the 1.5b thats unity lost in just a few days? 😄

[misty shale]

https://unity.com/runtime-fee-estimator

[jagged crane]

It is certainly an outcome I did not expect. However, it was a bit of a bad take to almost set fire to the entire company to get changes out 😅

[cunning gorge]

no Pro+

[raven burrow]

neat. Also how's ur vacation doing.

[smoky escarp]

Insert Jesse Pinkman gif saying: "Hell yeah, baby come on

[trail loom]

the blog page is not loading on my device

[split junco]

Archiving that open letter on archive.org and archive.today juuuust in case...

[cerulean lintel]

i wish the first bit could have been avoided too 🫡

[foggy haven]

yes but in every case you'd only pay up to 2.5% of revenue

[compact merlin]

Aimy, thank you and thanks to your co-workers. We love you and hope you can relax this weekend after what I'm sure must have been a stressful uncertain time

[cerulean lintel]

good. i’d post pictures if i was allowed ;-; lots of swimming and nice food.

[glacial obsidian]

What is an engagement vs. install?

[slim dock]

Yea, it was a wide discussion for sure

[visual stag]

Assuming you made more than a million dollars per year, you could opt to pay a fixed 2.5% of your revenue or the twenty cents per new install (cap at 2.5% - potentially you can pay less with new install count)

[summer hill]

are the countries listed about the country of the game company or of the player ?

[signal laurel]

for mobile is downloads and for steam is install. It is more complex but something like this

[rigid moon]

Lets hope unity doesnt change the TOS agian in the future. Because they have nothing written saying they wont change TOS again in future.

[signal frost]

yeah there are big chances that you'll pay less than 2.5% unless you're a F2P game with low income

[jagged crane]

It did seem to cause irreparable damage to the company at least. I would be curious to see before/after license numbers for Unity after they stabilize. They might not change much at all, but I get the impression they probably would.

[cerulean lintel]

you have no idea lol, honestly the hardest part has been seeing you guys sad and wanting to fix it but just having to wait. i’m glad that wait has ended

[nocturne crow]

One thing I concern
Do we have option to report only one metric and pay only that. Or we need to always report both, then choose the lower fee ?

[oblique marlin]

It's likely the same thing but with a word that is no longer deemed negative to everyone 😛

[teal basin]

The lowest. So if you want to pay 2.5% which is the highest you can go with that

[cerulean lintel]

we have probably lost some permanent users unfortunately but hopefully we can win ‘em back

[rigid moon]

you cant choose you HAVE to pay the lowest

[signal frost]

isn't that good though?

[jagged crane]

I don't see how that's possible with the shareholder driven approach and the same execs at the helm. Those two things will forever be an unfortunate thorn in people's sides.

[nocturne crow]

You misunderstand my question

[grizzled dawn]

Wait are they republishing their github repo?

[worn oxide]

Personally, Im waiting to see what the rest of the community says about these changes and decide from there if I want to stick with Unity. My concern is the abandonment of the Unity Engine.

[rigid moon]

when your charged per download for f2p games, maybe not.

[smoky escarp]

Thank you very much for answering our questions during this bad time!

[misty shale]

"An initial engagement is defined as the moment that a distinct end user successfully and legitimately acquires, downloads, or engages with a game powered by the Unity Runitme for the first time in a distribution channel." per the estimator 🙂 https://unity.com/runtime-fee-estimator

[foggy haven]

you can report only one of the two if you choose yes

[signal frost]

well that's at the worst 2.5% no? less than epic

[tacit tusk]

I think the losses will mostly come from publishers raking in hundreds of millions of dollars on IoS free to play apps... if they have the option to switch engine, they will clearly do that rather than revshare

[cerulean lintel]

i love this community nothing has changed :)

[rigid moon]

charging per seat.

[latent elk]

I'm not a lawyer but my initial gut feeling is that you really don't HAVE to pay the lowest. If you want to keep your revenue figures as secret it's perfectly fine or vice versa. No-one will come after you for paying too much. If the highest one was charged then yeah it would mean better reporting.

[foggy haven]

sorry if I don't reply to your mentions Discord is not highlighting replies for some reason 🤷‍♂️

[raven burrow]

can you finally safely give a personal opinion?

[tacit tusk]

the changes are really decent.

[somber moat]

'The Runtime Fee policy will only apply beginning with the next LTS version of Unity shipping in 2024 and beyond.' Does that means 2023 LTS still pay runtime fee?

[oblique marlin]

Right. Use the 2.5% and ignore the vague wording. Got it. 🙂

[rigid moon]

"Ultimately, you will be charged the lesser of the two." seems like you dont have a choice.

[raven burrow]

lts 2023 is in 2024

[signal frost]

the 2.5% would still only happen after a million dollars, and now it's 200k$ instead of 100k$ for PRO like it used to be so it's a huge win for personal

[uncut quarry]

Unity W

[fallen depot]

Hope you all at Unity can rest a bit now🥹

[open thunder]

Yeah, I'm guessing this 'revised' version is what the greedy bastards had in mind the entire time

[misty shale]

This is something I hope to hear about during the fireside chat: https://www.youtube.com/live/qyLcI5O9iUY

[cerulean lintel]

sure. i didn’t like original changes i thought they where pretty awful the fact that it was possible for edge cases to exist and charge people over 100% revenue is crazy. i’m very happy with new changes.

we are now better than unreal and half the price

[grizzled dawn]

What about the github repo? Hmm

[somber moat]

i mean 2022 LTS updated in 2024

[nocturne crow]

In my opinion
Install can be repeat, can be separate into multiple devices. And will be counted each time you clear cache in webgl platform
Initial engagement means unique user opening your app. And you have evidence they are organic and legit

[rigid moon]

unity is 2.5% after~~ 200k~~ 1m (plus seat costs), unreal is 5% after 1mill

[old belfry]

we did a 1 week evaulation of godot, u wanna see my honest result?

[signal frost]

no, 2.5 applies after a million

[latent elk]

No. It's 2.5% after 1mil. The 200k is when you need to get the pro license.

[lusty kayak]

Yes

[weak adder]

Pretty satisfied with the new plan. only thing that would truly put me at ease is to fire Riccietelo guy

[cerulean lintel]

i’m glad you all liked the changes imma head out for a couple hours and just enjoy the glow of relief. <3

[lusty kayak]

Dm me it

[glacial obsidian]

Being that they are self-reported, I guess there's may be some flexibility in how "engagement" interpreted, but would be nice to know exactly.

[raw frigate]

why the fuck was that deleted

[upper heart]

ehhhhh not really but its better than it was suppose to be ig. Goodbye!

[smoky escarp]

Even so, I recommend that people here always try to vary their tools, learning a different engine, or a different language can be important, not only if Unity makes a decision they disagree with, but also if the job demand changes

[summer hill]

its much better

[brave turret]

2.5% fee only applies after your game surpasses 1 million in revenue

[jagged crane]

Get a mojito

[signal frost]

well that's obvious but even more obvious now

[brave turret]

the 200k limit is when we require you to pay for your seat w/ pro

[latent elk]

Hop to the fireside chat and see if they take questions. Also I bet the FAQs will improve. But from what I understand it's basically a purchase of a paid game or new user in f2p game (and they can then purchase or not purchase any amount of stuff and it doesn't count as an additional engagement).

[raw frigate]

did the update come out?

[old belfry]

honestly very fair terms through and through

[spark ravine]

Unity Personal customers will get a new sign-in and online customer experience.... If the internet connection is lost, customers may continue using Unity for up to thirty (30) days while offline

[compact merlin]

Exactly, for some even the original plan would have been better than Unreal's rev share, but any possibility of the fee exceeding revenue was unacceptable. Funny, when I discussed this with a few people I mentioned that the fee should just been capped on % of revenue and thats exactly what happened!

[brave turret]

I think so 🙂

[echo thunder]

I didn't got it. This will be for Unity Personal too? Or pro?

[old belfry]

after 200k revenue u have to upgrade to pro always

[cunning gorge]

Pro+

[spark ravine]

pro

[brave turret]

You wouldn't be on personal if your game is making 1 million

[latent elk]

Yes. That applies even now

[frail pelican]

When will I be able to remove the splash screen? Only in future versions?

[visual stag]

I believe it says 2023+

[nocturne crow]

Yes, but I think Store download is one metric need to be send as evidence. Other might be something like number of user account records in your game's database

[echo thunder]

Oh yeah I got it now

[cunning gorge]

2023LTS+

[old belfry]

@brave turret the article should've had a flow chart 0 Revenue Unity Free > 200k Revenue Upgrade To Pro > 1000k Revenue start paying 2.5% or install-fee

[raw frigate]

can someone link me the thing

[brave turret]

Yes, but that was the case before (actually the limit was 100k, we doubled it)

[misty shale]

https://unity.com/runtime-fee-estimator this is close! 🙂

[bitter tinsel]

I'm glad Unity finally spoke, we really needed to know what the deal was before we can fully evaluate any decision

[raw frigate]

nvm i found it

[glacial obsidian]

I think these new changes are fair and a good first step, but I think important for Unity to address how the initial changes and announcement were made in the first place.

[foggy haven]

personal is completely free. completely. free.

[wide cradle]

the calculator !

[raven burrow]

(up to 200k revenue)

[foggy haven]

well after that you're not using personal

[slim dock]

Just FYI - all the links here

Open Letter: https://blog.unity.com/news/open-letter-on-runtime-fee
Runtime Fee Calculator: https://unity.com/runtime-fee-estimator
Pricing Updates/FAQ: https://unity.com/pricing-updates
ToS Github Reinstated: https://github.com/Unity-Technologies/TermsOfService

[old belfry]

lol i can just imagine how many rounds that made internally and how stressed the poor web dev was to make sure he got all the specs 100% correct 😄

[visual stag]

To be specific, the LTS for 2023 that'll release next year

The Runtime Fee policy will only apply beginning with the next LTS version of Unity shipping in 2024 and beyond

[brave turret]

I think that's a situation where we would ask you to update to the latest

[junior sage]

Ok, i'm gonna be direct.
Yes, the new changes are better.
BUT if you really wanna regain our trust, then the whole executive board, including John, MUST resign, period.

[raven burrow]

personal has a higher price then pro after 200k. you can no longer use it

[raw frigate]

im gonna re-private my repo

[plucky ivy]

so if im on an old version, i pay 2k after i reach 200k. and if i am on the newest version, i pay 2k after i reach 200k AND i start paying 2.5% after reaching 1 mil?

[foggy haven]

yes, after 200k revenue you'd have to use pro

[signal frost]

ok so

   At 200k you have to upgrade to Unity PRO
   With Unity PRO after 1M$ revenue per year you have to pay the engagement fee
   The fee is either 2.5% or something similar to the install fee (which of them is lower, so it caps at 2.5 on edge cases)

this is what I understood from the posts

[raw frigate]

now im genuinely just gonna see what happens next, i want to see the people responsible for this change and especially the people who chose to hide the tos shit gone, but this is much better

[glacial obsidian]

#archived-pricing-updates-talk message

[potent flax]

Oh they changed this too:
If the internet connection is lost, customers may continue using Unity for up to thirty (30) days while offline.

[foggy haven]

yes

[raven burrow]

Here's a summary someone gave that should prob be pinned

Our Unity Personal plan will remain free and there will be no Runtime Fee for games built on Unity Personal. We will be increasing the cap from $100,000 to $200,000 and we will remove the requirement to use the Made with Unity splash screen.

The Runtime Fee policy will only apply beginning with the next LTS version of Unity shipping in 2024 and beyond. Your games that are currently shipped and the projects you are currently working on will not be included – unless you choose to upgrade them to this new version of Unity.

For games that are subject to the runtime fee, we are giving you a choice of either a 2.5% revenue share or the calculated amount based on the number of new people engaging with your game each month. Both of these numbers are self-reported from data you already have available. You will always be billed the lesser amount.

[boreal pilot]

is that game revenue or company wide?

[latent elk]

Pretty much spot on.

[brave turret]

1M revenue per year per game (if you have two games making 500k each, the fee doesn't apply)

[junior sage]

Also, why insisting on the whole Runtime fee? If it's gonna be self-reported, then what's the point?

[foggy haven]

the caps are company revenue but the fee is per game

[idle sigil]

Good news LFG!

[signal frost]

overall a huge win for indie devs like myself so I like the changes

[foggy haven]

1 hour ago, see pins

[visual stag]

They already have. It's wild.

[plucky ivy]

about what lol

[compact merlin]

Huge W

[edgy yew]

Definitely. Enterprise finally has more clarity too. The only group unaffected is the Industry subsubscribers and they haven't tried forcing us into that yet

[brave turret]

Good. We think it's a good deal too 🙂

[raw frigate]

big W but their trust is not restored

[brave turret]

totally valid. We hope we can regain that with enough time to prove it

[plush crown]

It's better but still not great

[compact merlin]

Trust will take time @raw frigate but for now, we can be happy and show our thanks to the staff that listened

[raw frigate]

is there any plans for punitive action for the people responsible for this?

[boreal pilot]

so 2.5% could be quite a lot if i'm selling ferraris and use an otherwise free unity game to market them

[shell sandal]

2.5% is nothing lol

[rigid moon]

its surprising they are trying to be all sweet atm, no promises tos wont change again in the future. or change values soon, just need to get people crawling back atm

[ivory jewel]

LOL no

[patent wasp]

Is there anything planned to ensure something like this won't happen again?

[foggy haven]

no, you'd pay (up to) 2.5% of what your game makes

[raw frigate]

i've got nothing against the devs, they're great people and they made a great engine, but the actual management sucks

[wide cradle]

every studio and indie team rn : EMERGENCY MEETING

[bitter tinsel]

TOS repository is reinstated, but now I would like stronger legal wording around it to ensure retroactive changes are not possible again

[compact merlin]

To be honest I think they will be much more careful about any changes or announcements in the future

[shell sandal]

if you aren't familiar then Trust Me Bro™ 2.5% is very very low

[rigid moon]

so they dont try it agian for a 3rd time....

[raw frigate]

this is what im thinking, this is why i want some sort of punitive action.

[raven burrow]

yeah i was afraid too. as a Ferrari dealer i worried this could bankrupt me

[native vortex]

reinstated? can they turn off and on the TOS as they wish or smth?

[foggy haven]

i certainly hope so 😓

[nocturne crow]

Have someone replace Riccitiello is the shortest and most effective, one vote from me

[rigid moon]

nope all is forgiven back to normal guys.

[edgy yew]

You'd also probably fall into needing industry licensing in that case. Ferrari Rev is over 1m, and you are starting to work outside of standard gaming.

So you'd have to buy industry licenses, no runtime fee, I think.

[plush crown]

I mean they deleted the GitHub repo that hosted it, so yeah

[raw frigate]

if they replace him i'll be relatively happy

[oblique rapids]

2.5% isn't the worst but honestly im probably still gonna switch to godot, i would like full ownership of what im making

[stark mica]

can you guys write it into the ToS that if you take down the ToS repo again you will need to give us $100,000 each

[compact merlin]

I think everyone would welcome that

[green mountain]

the new pricing is so vague It seems like smoke and mirrors
present something awful and replace it with something pretty bad and they wont notice

[shell sandal]

so when did all these new changes happen?

[nocturne crow]

*every unity developer will be relatively happy

[raven burrow]

2.5% is VERY competitive

[foggy haven]

it's back now, for the record the ToS was at unity.com/legal the whole time but yeah the repo is back now

[rocky parrot]

Oh hey. No splash screen everywhere now? Cool. I hope that one goes retroactively to 2019 and 2022 lts

[tired hedge]

🦐

[brave turret]

For what it's worth, that repo is back up (and I don't think its removal was for any nefarious reason)

[raw frigate]

i mean it's not 100% trustworthy, they still did some crappy stuff before riccitello but he's just not a good look
i wouldnt want someone who was ceo at the company that killed one of the biggest engines to be the ceo for one of the biggest engines

[oblique rapids]

not sure what you mean by competitive? im not familiar at all with the industry i still haven't released a game

[green mountain]

it is a tos, nothing special about having it on your site. It was that the changes were hidden

[compact merlin]

Yea good move, image problems with that logo now are worse than ever

[echo thunder]

Removing Splash Screen will take effect from Unity 2024? Or In upcoming versions?

[raven burrow]

Unreal takes 5%

[edgy yew]

Yeah 2.5% of revenue above 1mil is really nothing, compared to the store fronts who will be taking 30% off fbe top at 0 revenue.

[small shell]

Public companies are at will of shareholders and board members

[shell sandal]

well I still think the board members are pieces of shit buuut I'll take that rev share 😂 I'll just be sure to keep a fucking private fork of the ToS

[solemn junco]

My understanding is that will only apply from the next LTS? Or is that in effect from the next minor version for 2022?

[tender cedar]

Trust is broken beyond repair, sadly. They can revert down the line and nothing stops them from doing it.

[raven burrow]

Unity 2023 LTS and later will have the change

[green mountain]

they have been so vague that I am guessing there are other terms. also are we all forgetting how little the fees previously were

[foggy haven]

yeah I don't know much about the what and the how of this, what I know from my colleagues is that it was unrelated but obviously didn't look good

[rocky parrot]

Our Unity Personal plan will remain free and there will be no Runtime Fee for games built on Unity Personal. We will be increasing the cap from $100,000 to $200,000 and we will remove the requirement to use the Made with Unity splash screen. this doesn't say that. it says that personal has 200k limit + no required splashscreen now

[smoky escarp]

Also, I hope we have less Godot Cultists now, lol

[boreal pilot]

don't forget the seats you still need to pay for. but for a low-seat operation it is cheaper

[plush crown]

The thing it the repo was put in place for similar reasons to this bullshit, only to have it removed and this bullshit tried again. I honestly don't care if it's on Unity's site, this repo shows all the changes.

[old belfry]

honestly godot is rough

[compact merlin]

Chill man, its a game engine, not like you found your girlfriend in bed with your best friend

[bitter tinsel]

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMjDqTpss/

[green mountain]

ok, thx

[brave turret]

Again, totally valid view. But I would say, what's stopping us is that we want to do good by our customers. We messed up, took some time to fix, but we did come out with something I believe we all think is fair

[signal frost]

everyone decides that for themselves, honestly I am happy w the changes and I'll give unity a second chance, but no more fuckups

[bitter tinsel]

So wait, I don't need the Made With Unity now?

[small shell]

game is given away for free every month lol

[echo thunder]

Great

[patent wasp]

If I move 1m copies, then $1m in sales first year, but second year only move $500k, will I have a runtime fee for Pro?

[oblique rapids]

seats?

[raw frigate]

hopefully the shareholders and board members share our will

[bitter tinsel]

NO MORE SPLASHSCREEN??

[small shell]

Spoiler alert. Board members are the ones who approve these decisions lol they’re not your friend

[boreal pilot]

you need a pro license for each person on the team using the editor

[tired hedge]

question: does Unity not have any internal rules around PR / communication? I find it wild random staff is allowed to comment in here.

[raw frigate]

no shit they're not my friend

[trail loom]

Is there an alternative link to the blog post? I get an internal server error

[small shell]

They’re in it to make money Jack

[shell sandal]

I was actually pretty impressed with Flax Engine but its so damn new that there's very little to gauge realworld results right now and I find it kinda sus that all that shit just came outta nowhere overnight without stealing code or engine design from elsewhere

[patent wasp]

They probably do, it seems most follow a general pattern of "don't fight with the monkeys" and tend towards being informative

[brave turret]

runtime fee applies if you have over $1M revenue over the past 12 months (trailing months, not calendar year)

[zenith echo]

The new free Personal (2023 LTS) will allow you to remove splash screen for free. So, anyone making less than $200K, they’ll be able to use Personal for free AND not have a splash screen.

[tender cedar]

The solution today was really good, indeed. Sadly the solution is the lesser part of the problem at this point in time. The post only addresses the fees but not the trust, which tells me what you guys only care about.

[raw frigate]

removing john can bring trust back into the community and act as a good pr move, making more people want to use the engine- this is what im hoping they'll think

[brave turret]

I assure you we care about trust.

[bitter tinsel]

YAY!!!!!

[patent wasp]

So then runtime fees are calculated a year after the install would've taken place, correct?

[brave turret]

but trust isn't earned back in a day

[tired hedge]

Jaime be honest litterally anything they wud say u were gonna say that

[zenith echo]

Yes, starting with 2023 LTS.

[quasi egret]

The new deal is FAR better. But how they want to build up trust?! Something similar has happened (afair) 2019 [checkout Game From Scratch, he made a video about it].

So if you REALLY want to build up trust again. FIRE JOHN RICCITIELLO! Finally get rid of him! He has dealed more than enough harm to the game-industry!

[tender cedar]

Nothing in your post tells me that you care about trust, sadly.

[solemn junco]

Ah right ye, from 2023 LTS. Which also comes with the run time fee. But at least we can use 2022 and avoid the fees if we so wish right?

[rigid moon]

is for a lot of people...

[echo thunder]

Everyone can make mistakes. They improved it. We can give Unity a chance again.

[raven burrow]

Ok so everyone who's saying trust for everyone is broken still

Most People didn't actually switch over

most of those who would actually be affected by the original runtime fee wouldn't be able to just switch like that

just to clear up this misconception

[raw frigate]

i dont want to sound bitter but people actually present in the company saying this doesn't make it sound convincing

[brave turret]

if I'm understanding you right, yes that's correct

[sweet minnow]

trust is funny, it can be destroyed in seconds but to rebuild it can take a life time

[edgy yew]

There is always going to be an acceptable level of loss in a business decision such as this one.

[tired hedge]

Craven as a (no offense intended) random Tech Manager at Unity did you get explicit permission to be talking on behalf of Unity to the public? Seems like an odd role title to be interfacing PR.

[raw frigate]

how the hell you gonna get rid of it in older versions? buy pro?

[solemn junco]

Probably shouldn’t be trusting multi billion dollar ad companies who have your engine hostage. But, each to their own.

[plush crown]

I honestly think I'm done trying to use Unity as an indie. I'll use it for ChilloutVR and VRChat, but it's going to take me a long time to try to use it in any sort of game dev sense again, and that's even if shit isn't pulled again

[brave turret]

I can only say that from my point of view, this was a massive effort from a lot of people inside Unity who care a LOT. Like people who care so much we go on discord in our free time to talk about this stuff

[normal kelp]

New licensing is definitely good and makes more sense for developers, but at the same time it's a death sentence for Unity 🙂 This is basically the Adobe Flash scenario when they introduced revenue share for new versions back to 2012.

It means that top tier companies have no interest to rely on Unity in mid term. Also they probably lost the leverage to boost unity ads. Basically next years unity won't be profitable

Personally I think now it's the matter of who would buy them. And imho they are perfect for for Microsoft as one of the biggest thing that pushes dotnet in cross platform development

[raven burrow]

yeah. that's your fault to begin with. that hasn't changed

[tired hedge]

Not that you are saying anythign crazy I just never seen that allowed at any company b4 - sometimes its fireable offense

[bitter tinsel]

Hey what about the engine not really having any real, meaningful improvements in 4 odd years
Like we got dots but that was announced even 6 years ago.
It seems like the engine is falling behind bigtime compared to unreal

[brave turret]

and you don't sound bitter, I get it.

[edgy yew]

Unity people in here are sharing opinions on behalf of themselves, not their employer. In case that's not obvious.

Not to say their opinions don't overlap with their company.

[thorny dew]

Are you kidding me right now

[raw frigate]

cynical rather

[green mountain]

This whole thing kinda just looks like they wanted to increase the pricing but wanted to make it look cheaper by comparison

[tired hedge]

then maybe they shouldn't say "we"

[plucky ivy]

unreal only cares about the film industry and is screwing over programmers

[boreal pilot]

well you could reach $1M in the first week, i don't think they're going to wait a year to send the bills

[green mountain]

I might not like unity much anymore but is he for real? netcode means nothing?

[raven burrow]

I should say

unity employees couldn't share opinions before without fear of getting fired or something. so they are no longer only speaking for the company but also their selves

[echo thunder]

Yes'nt

[shell sandal]

thats an interesting take lol how you figure?

[patent wasp]

(Blink twice if the shareholders are holding you hostage)

I do want to ask if there's anything planned to keep this from happening again?

[plucky ivy]

just what ive heard from several ppl

[shell sandal]

maybe their milage varies but that hasn't been my experience in UE

[bitter tinsel]

I personally haven't seen any meaningful changes, and a lot of the old programmer fucks in other discords have the same consensus.

[solemn junco]

Wish there was some legal precedent to split up the company such that the ad side could go do it’s own thing & the engine could remain unto itself.

[thorny dew]

Truth by consensus is a great way to live

[keen badger]

can we trust unity again?

[raw frigate]

no

[plush crown]

No

[indigo juniper]

yes

[shell sandal]

for now perhaps lol

[bitter tinsel]

So am I wrong? can you share any insight for that or just say "are you kidding me"?

[quasi egret]

Not as long as John is their CEO

[brave turret]

I think it's important that our engine is able to fund its own development, and with this updated model we can do that

[edgy yew]

Yeah but then you end up with even less engine decision making and power. When you split a company that way, the team generating more revenue will become the ultimate decision maker on future changes and where effort goes.

[echo thunder]

Will Unity not make these types of decisions again?

Do we have a contract

[boreal pilot]

its kind of a fair point if you look at the amount of $ put into making it movie viable, vs fixing bugs

[shell sandal]

but hey, from this point forward Unity's board knows we will not fuck around and will uproot everything to other engines if we have to

[bitter tinsel]

They will attempt to hide it better

[keen badger]

maybe they learned their lesson? or i am just coping

[plush crown]

No they don't. They'll try again and again until it works

[patent wasp]

No, but keep posted for any changes that will ensure this won't happen again hopefully.

Just because I say sorry and bought you a new one doesn't mean I still didn't run over your cat

[sweet minnow]

and that is what people often forget, unity was doing massive losses, so it needed to be changed

[bitter tinsel]

Cope, as long as executives currently in management, they'll keep looking for ways to increase profits

[spark ravine]

can someone send me link of pricing table i saw in jason live stream (not estimator)

[thorny dew]

What insight do you want? Engine changes are a fact, you can look them up.

[keen badger]

fair enough

[solemn junco]

Wonder if Tim Cook wishes he’d hit up Unreal instead of Unity rn.

[edgy yew]

The thing is, they can't rebuild trust in a single day. They aren't going to rush out and fire anyone, CEO or otherwise either. But I'm absolutely sure that's why the fireside chat isn't with the CEO, but some random product lead.

[shell sandal]

The outcome today is a win. plain and simple. No matter what, they are going to monetize the engine better and rightfully so. The way they plan to now with 2.5 rev share as an option is the right way to go. Thats the right path

[signal frost]

actually yeah we can

[neat tiger]

You gotta read the whole message lol

[bitter tinsel]

Lmao no. They can't be trusted.

[echo thunder]

Unity should have rev share policy from the beginning

[summer hill]

my game isnt even released yet tho most of us wont make it to 200k

[visual stag]

Seems we're fine for this decade. Come next decade, we'll worry about the future then.

[tidal sapphire]

You shouldn't have trust in any vendor. You should have a contract that doesn't include a "conditions will change in the future" clause

[zenith echo]

What’s the technical challenges for upgrading your project? Just curious where that bottle neck or limit is for you.

[plush crown]

It's the right path, but there's no place anywhere where they will codify this not happening again in the TOS. So it'll happen again once the outrage dies down

[thorny dew]

If you want me to address "the engine is falling behind unreal" I have an easy answer: Unreal has money, Unity devs cry and throw tantrums for $0.20, what do you expect?!

[high mural]

ehh i'd argue more like 5 years lmao

[solemn junco]

Just gonna casually install your game a couple million times to be sure though. You’re now the communities Guinea pig.

[patent wasp]

The worry is backtracking on the current state of the terms

[foggy haven]

In a way you have a contract, yes. It's the terms of service. The announcement includes a section that says that you remain in the ToS of the engine version (eg 2021, 2022) that you publish you game with. We reinstated the ToS repo that was taken down as well. It's what we can do now to tangibly show good faith... you know in addition to making plus free and raising the cap.

[rigid moon]

especially with a company that has tried to do retroactive tos changes twice now

[bitter tinsel]

I think unity had that in their github, but got caught trying to delete it. They're not sorry. It's all corporate speak

[gloomy bane]

it's not a legally binding contract that lasts for the duration of a project

[bitter tinsel]

We should all do that

[plucky ivy]

idk my version is like 5 years old so if things can break then i'd rather not do it and spend time trying to hunt down everything that broke

[neat tiger]

I think you're slightly confused on the original message that guy sent

[brazen pawn]

It contains that section until that section is quietly removed.

[edgy yew]

I absolutely agree. It's why we don't allow Unity game services, plastic SCM, unity ads or analytics etc in any of our projects and titles. No vendor lock allowed.

[solemn junco]

First man to go to jail for not been able to pay Unity $1 billion in runtime fees.

[shell sandal]

we can't really speculate that. I think this was unpresidented and pretty sure the entire industry's reaction to all this will leave a lasting reminder for the board.

[rigid moon]

they have done it once before, its not unpresidented

[shell sandal]

no, this time was different

[solemn junco]

Their new TOS says they’ll slide into your DMs 15 mins before. Dw.

[foggy haven]

I work off the facts, we can make any number of hypotheticals about the future. In the end, trust is a decision and I completely respect everyone's decision.

[plush crown]

Just like the last time this happened where Unity literally drove a competing company out of business because of a retroactive TOS change, and people got pissed and made a huge ruckus about it?

[bitter tinsel]

To everyone still defending Unity and is currently making a game, there should be a 1 million install test to see if they think it works

[tired hedge]

old news mae

[bitter tinsel]

Unity can't be trusted

[ancient folio]

So is it after 200k in profit or 1 mil in profit? slightly confused by "No game with less than $1 million in trailing 12-month revenue will be subject to the fee."

[shell sandal]

this was a completely different problem

[plucky ivy]

username checks out

[jolly apex]

Read the pins

[thorny dew]

If you don't trust anyone, don't start a business

[patent wasp]

Fees only apply to any installs within the last 1 year if the amount you've made in that window reaches $1m

[agile spruce]

I think it's safe to say that these changes are finalized

[indigo juniper]

no company can be trusted then, i prefer someone who know when they fu*ked up and fix it then someone who doesn't care

[edgy yew]

After 200k revenue as a company over 12 months, you must upgrade to pro, so you begin paying subscription fees.

After 1m in game sales, you need to start paying a Rev share or runtime fee

[shell sandal]

hey I'm not saying trust them lol a hoe is a hoe. I'm just saying I think a serious lesson will have been learned from what they did here. They know the consequences if they do it again is all I'm saying

[latent elk]

Personally I trust the community to kick the company back into shape if there are any shenanigans in the future.

[agile spruce]

So if anyone is still leaving, now's probably the time to head out

[zenith echo]

They provide examples in the latest statements.

[tired hedge]

yes it is cringe seeing ppl here like "I don't trust a company" - a) then dont use it b) see a

[severe yew]

Sweet, I am happy they have a reasonable policy. Thanks for all your complaining everyone... now move along!

[ancient folio]

and if you don't upgrade to pro then you have to start paying fees at 200k?

[near crane]

omg updates have arrived! time to read

[visual stag]

We'll settle with 7.5 years or agree to disagree. Either way, the current contract literally gave beginners and low income indies the Plus plan for free. There's a revenue fee for big shots but it seems fair enough with the current competitive market contender (Unreal).

[edgy yew]

They did say pro and enterprise changes are still coming and in the works. But I think personal is now set in soft stone.

[misty shale]

After 200k in profit, you must update to the pro version. Within the pro version, you must have 1M initial engagements **AND ** make $1M in the last 12 months of gross revenue AND be on 2023LTS before runtime fees apply.

[ocean sky]

nice to see that 2.5% cap, no more people thinking the runtime fees could bankrupt them

[zenith echo]

It would only change for you if you update to 2023 LTS once it comes out, I believe. Otherwise it will be what you already have.

[ancient folio]

so what if you don't upgrade to pro after 200k?

[bitter tinsel]

I still think there’s trust issues and I doubt having a sexy fireside talk will make everyone trust Unity again, call me a hater but how do you honestly expect them to not just implement it again when we’re not looking