archived-pricing-updates-talk

[teal basin]

And who is chasalow?

[solid plank]

It's still speculation as to what really went down in those meeting rooms. However, it was an intriguing link to Unity's company financial status though.

[teal basin]

Meh they don't need to pay interest rate before 2027 if I am not wrong

[bitter tinsel]

There's no speculation. They went to their employees for feedback, employees said "no" CEO said 👌 and went with it

[ripe walrus]

Send all the big companies that use our software a ten million dollar bill and see who pays it

[bitter tinsel]

Go the google route of "Let's send them a random bill and see if they pay it" and they did 😂

[ripe walrus]

crackhead shit or galaxy brain shit? you decide hahahahaha

[bitter tinsel]

bruh even crackheads are smarter than that

[dark gulch]

[bitter tinsel]

btw, back to the couple argument for a sec, can I just say how infuriated I was when I learnt "several" had no relation to seven like are you kidding me?

https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/1lkll0/eli5_why_several_doesnt_mean_seven_of_something/

[ripe walrus]

omg right???

[dark gulch]

wat... people thought that?

[edgy remnant]

if you read the movie titles : Tomorrow never dies dr no splash scream captain america rev cher 24 onward. - maybe I just don't believe in coincidence

[bitter tinsel]

Yeah why wouldn't you think that

[fair vigil]

couple - 2
few - 3

what is in between that and several?

[dark gulch]

because it makes no sense other then "they share the first 4 letters" like huh

[bitter tinsel]

It makes complete sense that's like saying six and sixty share no relation or...well any number and their tenth counterpart (eight and eighty, etc).

[dark gulch]

you know what, i was chill during this whole thing and channel's existence, but this is the last straw that broke the camel's back, i am now going to throw awful insults at you for this awful take, you gosh darn friggin click clack paddy whack freemason

[bitter tinsel]

You're an awful take how could you think that "seven" and "several" aren't related when they're both quantities like wtf if I saw "nine" and "nineral" I'd def think both meant nine.

Or better yet, another real version that does make sense is three and thrice. If quadrice (or whatever the fourth version is) didn't share some variation of four then I'd be pissed

Quarce is used for the fourth version of thrice which makes sense

[dark gulch]

idk i just always knew "several" was not related to seven

[bitter tinsel]

It should be 😭

[amber patrol]

https://github.com/ProjectUnifree/unifree

[dark gulch]

like this is the first time im hearing of people thinking the 2 things were related

[teal basin]

Oh and it is from Will Goldstone. You are maybe right

[bitter tinsel]

who's will goldstone

[dark gulch]

one of the project leads at unity, from what im seeing

apparantly there's a thread of his favorite movies or something that he posted recently that when stringed together apparantly says a sentence about what the new changes will be???

[bitter tinsel]

It literally just got deleted less than 5m ago whaaat I just checked the twitter in the last 10m and it was still there but now the main tweet is gone

[dark gulch]

idk, i mean it is his real account but i wouldn't take it as gospel just yet, esp since it's so cryptic

[edgy remnant]

the plot thickens 🧠

[teal basin]

And all got deleted

[dark gulch]

yeah, i guess he was like "okay maybe it's best if i didn't actually"
that or someone in management caught on to what he was up to quick

[thorny gazelle]

This seems like dumb people reading into shit way too much again. What did this supposed cipher say?

[edgy remnant]

he changed his mind, he no longer needs our help deciding what movie to watch tonight

[bitter tinsel]

Tomorrow never dies dr no splash scream captain america rev cher 24 onward. Translated: tomorrow, no splash screen, [??? No?] rev share, 2-4% onward

[dark gulch]

the cipher said something along the lines of "no splash screen, 2-4% rev share onwards"

[thorny gazelle]

What? Where are these letters coming from?

[dark gulch]

which ehhhhhhhhh, would be neat if it was true, but until the official announcement i wouldn't trust it

[bitter tinsel]

https://twitter.com/willgoldstone/status/1704981695315755067

[safe stump]

it looks like they're testing the waters again

[thick aurora]

what did it say?

[zenith echo]

I take it as possibly: Tomorrow, No Splash Screen, Cap Rev Share 2-4% (or 24%), moving forward?

[safe stump]

it was a list of movies that if read in order had a message

[bitter tinsel]

I mean I'm fine with that but we still need ironclad terms and offline editing

[edgy remnant]

I took the 24 as from 2024 onward

[dark gulch]

i would hope its 2-4% rev share, if the cap is 24% holy shit no one is using unity ever again in life

[zenith echo]

Another possibility.

[safe stump]

maybe it's "to 4"

[dark gulch]

that could work too ye

[zenith echo]

Seems like the best bet to me.

[safe stump]

did anyone get a screenshot of that?

[thorny gazelle]

Tweet is deleted.

[dark gulch]

yup, will got sniped by management

[bitter tinsel]

yeah I'm not refreshing right now xD

[zenith echo]

Still says nothing about the TOS wishy washy issues, but it’s a start, if accurate.

[safe stump]

someone should post it on reddit

[thorny gazelle]

Take screenshot and dm me it

[teal basin]

If it is true just wait tomorrow. No reason really to add more confusion

[safe stump]

free internet points

[zenith echo]

It’s been obliterated.

[slate hill]

post screenshot to imgur link here 🙂

[thorny gazelle]

He still has it open aparrently

[uncut quarry]

real

[safe stump]

I can't believe someone caught that message

[thorny gazelle]

Non real :D

[nocturne crow]

https://forum.unity.com/threads/unity-plan-pricing-and-packaging-updates.1482750/page-298#post-9353243

This?

[thick aurora]

yeah I just saw someone post it on the forums XD

[tawny star]

Sorry but, do you think using Unity makes game devs look bad, or does it put Unity in a bad light? Im just wondering what you peoples think.

[zenith echo]

Revising my guess to:
Tomorrow, No Splash Screen, Capped Rev Share, 2024 onward.

[bitter tinsel]

yes

[thorny gazelle]

Suppose it’s a very odd mix of movies

[bitter tinsel]

Tomorrow Never Dies
Dr No
Splash
Scream
Rev
Cher
24

So....... Tomorrow, no splash screen, rev share......24%?
Much more succinct

[nocturne crow]

Capped Rev Share mean rev share is not the fee, install fee still there

[edgy remnant]

lol no way rev share is 24%

[agile spruce]

24 would mean the year, not revenue share.

[teal basin]

24 = to 4%

[agile spruce]

Seeing as these changes were supposed to happen Jan 1st since the beginning

[nocturne crow]

truly ambiguous but I think it would be 2024

[bitter tinsel]

If they replace install fee with rev share in 2024 thats fine

[nocturne crow]

The cap pointed out it was not

[edgy remnant]

the onward after seems to make it 2024 onward

[cunning gorge]

here I was thinking they were just going to be including Prime Video with each sub

[bitter tinsel]

They never get away with both an install fee and rev share 🤣 if they thought about rev share I'm assuming they're scrapping the install fee since literally fucking everyone told them an install fee was impossible

[frank iron]

who is cap ?

[zenith echo]

Poor Will tho. Probably gonna get his hand slapped for that. 😶

[slate hill]

"cap rev share to 4%"

[edgy remnant]

but the onward after won't make much sense if it's 4%, I think 2024 onward is more likely

[bitter tinsel]

Tbh I also think the "Captain America" could mean what another forum user pointed out - The rev share will only be capped for people in america

Captain America = Capped in America

[safe stump]

onward meaning only future versions?

Is this message what they took all week to plan? 🤣

[bitter tinsel]

@agile spruce You may also want to pin this as a possible leak? Everyone will be talking about it now lol

[edgy remnant]

probably starting from games released in 2024 onward, I guess

[slate hill]

that won't help unity make more money as everyone stays on old version and won't update... and move to unreal after.

[timid quest]

still no update?

[thorny gazelle]

It’s such a weirdly specific list of movies, and with his tweet at the end I guess I could see it being real, in which case that’s such a retarded way to reveal that change I don’t know what’s going through their heads.

[thorny gazelle]

Literally just fucking scroll up and you’ll see

[slate hill]

read the first word of each tweet. combine... bingo

[thorny gazelle]

Yeah, I can see it being real. I can’t see why they’d do it, though.

[quick kraken]

I come back here after three days to find Unity has not released a statement but a riddle using movie titles for us to solve explaining how the future fee system will work?

Honestly it's less vague and confusing than the last statement they made.

[bitter tinsel]

Y'all...Unity itself hasn't done shit yet.

A person working at Unity POSSIBLY leaked this and we're rolling with it for now. This could literally mean nothing

[slate hill]

this leak is an improvement over the previous leak though....

[thorny gazelle]

We’re aware, it’s still obviously just speculation but supposing this riddle is real it would take effect tomorrow.

[slate hill]

could hope the next leak is more palatable... we're working off rumors and leaks at this point since unity won't make an official announcement.

[thorny gazelle]

It’s still a disastrously dumb idea though.

[bitter tinsel]

Yeah it's just funny how people automatically "This is how Unity announced it?" lmfao no not at all

[smoky escarp]

Do we have any new leaks since 18th?

[agile spruce]

Let's just see what tomorrow brings, if the leak is true we'll see an official announcement.

[bitter tinsel]

#archived-pricing-updates-talk message

[slate hill]

https://forum.unity.com/threads/unity-plan-pricing-and-packaging-updates.1482750/page-298#post-9353243

Read the FIRST WORD of each of his tweets and combine them.

[safe stump]

I just posted to reddit

[thorny gazelle]

Just don’t even bother with these people at this point, they can’t even be bothered to scroll up for two seconds

[safe stump]

https://www.reddit.com/r/unity/comments/16p01ou/unity_developer_posts_message_hinting_at/

[bitter tinsel]

I mean everyone's been scrolling for days it's understandable tho I just look at the pins since that's where stuff is supposed to be but doesn't look like they'll pin it

[smoky escarp]

Come on, don't be boring, this chat have like 3000 messages per second

[thorny gazelle]

Someone wants his internet brownie points.

[thorny gazelle]

We were literally talking about it in the fucking message directly above you, it’s not that hard.

[quick kraken]

The Firm
Armageddon
Goodbye

Here's a riddle for Unity in turn

[smoky escarp]

gringos act as if answering 'yes' or 'no' is the equivalent of being Sisyphus with the rock lmao

[waxen reef]

que?

[thorny gazelle]

It’s retarded. Let your monkey impulses wait a little more than 5 seconds before typing and you might realize.

[waxen reef]

this chat is better than netflix

[bitter tinsel]

A group of friends and I started a little club for unity refugees and starters to godot. DM me if you want to join. Everyone (no matter what your skill level is) is welcome!

[slate hill]

godot discord has a unity refugee channel

[bitter tinsel]

Third party one haha

[smoky escarp]

my man is acting like I asked if his mom is a whore or something, chill out bro lol

[thorny gazelle]

Why would people stay on an old version? Is this not a better pricing model?

[slate hill]

IF the TOS was not made retroactive... no one would update.

[thorny gazelle]

You’re not the first person to do it, but it’s annoying when all it takes is a little bit of time reading to not derail the active conversation to link you things, especially when we don’t know much more than you do.

[smoky escarp]

relax, we are all friends here!

[waxen reef]

git gud

[frank iron]

I was curious about your thoughts taking about switching engine. Is it really easy to switch from Unity to UE? Imagine you run a small studio with 5 Unity programmers—4 seniors with 5 years of experience and 1 juniors with 1 year of experience. You've heard about a new policy and decided to find an online UE course for them. Do you expect them to become experts with 5 years of UE experience? and can immediate develop project like previously ?

[charred pelican]

for me, the new versions are slow, bloated and buggy, so I'll just stick with 2021.3

[safe stump]

many professional gamedevs can use multiple engines

[thorny gazelle]

Depends on what you’ll be doing. In my experience it wasn’t that hard, but knowing c++ beforehand is always better. UE in and of itself is far from flawless.

[waxen reef]

Don't switch, id recommend to actuall learn both unreal and unity.. Why? Because if unity dies out, you can probably get a job as an unreal dev. Idk how popular godot is among companies hiring for game devs...

[nocturne crow]

The person who leak is an insider who have privilege to attend and talk within company. They was invited to adhear the plan improvement. And this person specifically voice the dissatisfaction a bit clearly. He try to hint us with movie poster because it was secret keeping contract

[waxen reef]

or just learn vanilla c++ and get a job anywhere lol

[edgy remnant]

adjusting to the UE editor takes like hours, so designers can literally switch effortlessly, for programmers is way more complex to switch, they can work immediately using the UE documentation, but can take months before they can be as good as they were with unity

[frank iron]

I would like to propose that this might not be the case. If your studio has been working on Unity projects for five years, what would motivate your Unity developers to consistently update and acquire new knowledge within the UE engine during this time?

[safe stump]

keeping their job?

[waxen reef]

for job stability. Unity looks like it might die out. Putting all ur eggs in basket isn't the smartest idea

[thorny gazelle]

For me the hardest thing to wrap my brain around in UE is the built in gamemode and level system. I don’t know how or why the fuck it’s there.

[nocturne crow]

Multiple basket is luxury

[delicate owl]

clearly the most sensible option is to start writing your own engine

I recommend common lisp

[safe stump]

already done, its fun

[thorny gazelle]

Until you go beyond 2D rendering.

[frank iron]

I'm not referring to the personal motivation of your engineers. I'm discussing the motivation of the company. People are usually lazy because learning new stuff doesn't get them more salary.

[thorny gazelle]

What is are you asking?

[nocturne crow]

Not to mention developer typically want to make a game more than an engine

[slate hill]

Everyone's situation is different... I'm "Solo" dev who hires contractors to do a bunch of things (or maybe the whole game?). So I just hire different contractors. 😄

[frank iron]

I'm genuinely curious, as many people express their desire to switch game engines, often assuming that the transition will happen smoothly and without any challenges.

[safe stump]

who said it was easy?

[thorny gazelle]

I’m asking what your original question was, I don’t understand it. Yes, obviously learning a new technology is challenging.

[slate hill]

I'm not waiting for Unity's response... I'm just here for entertainment... I've already decided to move away from Unity.

[dark gulch]

unfortunately, you must give those 20 cents to Tatu!

[safe stump]

they should charge $1/reload this chat (gotta get them when people are most invested)

[dark gulch]

[slate hill]

FYI, 8 years working in Unity.... tens of thousands paid to Unity.... it's not a trivial decision to move. It had to be done because I can no longer trust the company. Who cares what they change the TOS to.... what makes you think they won't change it again?

[charred pelican]

yes, learning new engine could be challenging, but it could be fun too, learning new stuff
||except you godot... your node based system is a mess ||

[frank iron]

let's say you take an online UE course and decide to leave your current job to seek a new position as a UE engineer. Do you anticipate that the new job will offer you a similar salary to what you were earning previously?

[dark gulch]

im sure go-daught can handle regular script too, cant it?

[frank iron]

any node based system combining every possible stuff into it is mess.

[slate hill]

you might get paid lower. as your practical experience with the new engine is lower/none. But this is a temporary/short term situation.. its not hard to learn a new engine... takes a bit of time and patience.

[safe stump]

most engines I've worked with are node based so its not too bad

[sick night]

using node systems: yes
making node systems: no

[slate hill]

if you are just an employee... just stay in your job and learn new engines in your own time. no risk to your income... and mitigates risk if shit hits the fan. Always good to know more engines anyway.

[frank iron]

yes...I just feel difficulty to tell the reviewer I do not have a developed project with UE.

[slate hill]

i predict demand for unity devs to crash (who isn't?heh) and demand for devs for other engines to skyrocket. the industry is definitely going through a massive change.

[frank iron]

instead of me, why would they not prefer a person with 5 years UE over me (5 years Unity + 1 month course) ?

[slate hill]

5 year UE dev will ask for more money. obviously. price yourself according to your skills.

[frank iron]

I do not know other, but lowering salary is very unacceptable now

[slate hill]

dev for caves of qud... a unity game... took only 15 work hours to port his game from unity to unreal.

[sick night]

well, caves of qud is basically just another roguelike in a console with a pretty tile set and ui

[frank iron]

I assuming there is some kind of converting tool from unity to unreal. 15hour is not even enough for you to revise all the codes

[slate hill]

yeah obviously this scales with complexity. but he started with zero unreal knowledge....

[novel kernel]

With unreals api honestly makes what your using basically c# in terms of complexity

[sick night]

they might as well just write their own engine

[delicate owl]

sounds more fun

[slate hill]

sure spend 5 years working on engine.. burn out before working on actual game 😛

[delicate owl]

right, the fun part

[willow crypt]

Yall don't seem to understand we are going to enter into the dev equivalent era of each major entertainment company spinning there own streaming service. Get ready for in house engines galore

[delicate owl]

sounds like paradise

seriously though I don't think that's likely, the economics just don't support it

team sizes and production quality have been scaling for years. The expense of making the average game is enormous

there's just not enough value in differentiating your tech

[waxen reef]

is it worth tho to learn vanilla c++ in terms of engine dev

[delicate owl]

(for most folks, obviously there's the occasional Insomniac)

[delicate owl]

you're never going to hear me say "no" to that question.

[wanton sigil]

Since Unity runtime seems to be suffering from PR problems, maybe we need a new runtime, like a DOTS runtime of sorts

[thorny gazelle]

If you’re developing an engine you absofuckinglutely need to know C++ as well as a lot of rendering knowledge.

[delicate owl]

say, I like your thinking

[waxen reef]

im talking about how valuable is it to actually learn how to develop an engine using C++ in terms of landing a job

[teal basin]

Have you heard of our lord and saviour Rust

[thorny gazelle]

Absolutely not

[delicate owl]

it depends on whether you'd applying for a job as a game programmer or engine programmer

[waxen reef]

the more the merrier

[thorny gazelle]

Not really necessary for a game dev. But work to grasp C++ well.

[zenith echo]

If I’m not satisfied with the next official Unity announcement, I’ll migrate toward another engine over the next year or so, using Unity in the interim and finishing what’s been started.

If I am satisfied, I’ll probably stick with Unity because it’s what I know best, and learn other engines on the side, just in case, while keeping a close eye on the state of the community and Asset Store.

If it dries up, I’ll be ready to move on, and if it doesn’t get too bad, I’ll still be able to use what I like best until some point in the future, at least.

[thorny gazelle]

That also goes for unreal engine, you absolutely should learn c++ before jumping into UE.

[thorny gazelle]

At this point I’m waiting for one of the big box engines to unfuck itself, as both UE and Unity are in a shit state right now, although Unity is definitely shittier. In the mean time just learning about rendering and C++.

[frank iron]

I've never heard anyone speak negatively about UE; everyone around me is consistently praising its exceptional graphics capabilities.

[nocturne crow]

There are a lot of library that is C# based and don't need any C++. C# also have many feature for high performance on par with C++. We only require knowledge of struct and optimization in general to compete with godot

[thorny gazelle]

I’ve been trying to use ChatGPT to help me learn along the way and the bullshit that that fucking thing comes up with sometimes is insane.

[thorny gazelle]

Anyone who hasn’t been brainwashed by Epic’s marketing knows that a lot of UE5’s flagship features like Nanite are in a poor state right now.

[frank iron]

mind to explain what is Nanite?

[zenith echo]

I’m not too worried about the languages part of it. I’ve worked with COBAL, Pascal, C, Python, C#, Java, and a myriad of web/script/DB languages.

You know one, you know them all. 😆

Just a matter of syntax and structure, as long as you understand the underlying logic. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[thorny gazelle]

@frank iron I’m not using it to learn how to code, god no, just to grasp rendering concepts.

[nocturne crow]

It was worth to make realistic and never wrong by industry standard. Movie and Simulation job are embrace unreal
However I would say it mostly overkill to make casual game and need to fine tune too much to make stylish graphic, because all of configuration was made for realistic graphic at the start to an end

[thorny gazelle]

Nanite is a system for Unreal that is supposed to provide a performant alternative to polygon budgeting through LODs while also saving time. The problem is it doesn’t fucking do that.

[zenith echo]

At least it apologies when you tell it how wrong it is. 🤣

[frank iron]

✅

[safe stump]

It apologizes like Unity does, "sorry for the confusion"

[thorny gazelle]

Yeah, logic is the main thing. It’s always funny seeing 14 year olds trying to learn how to code expecting to memorize every piece of syntax.

[thorny gazelle]

True lol. That’s if it actually admits it. The damn thing once gaslighted me into believing something about an obscure topic was real, only for me to create a new conversation with the thing to ask it about what it told me only for it to have no idea what I was talking about.

[sick night]

Was forcing myself to learn js just incase unity squashed webgl games

[thorny gazelle]

Also some actually good features are basically dependent on you enabling the shit features of the engine.

[nocturne crow]

Godot can do webgl isn't it?

[thorny gazelle]

Like VSMs, they basically don’t work if you’re not using Nanite unless you’re using a sketchy workaround.

[sick night]

Haven't looked into Godot, but also was interested in just knowing the webgl api

[nocturne crow]

It just pure opengl

[sick night]

basically just opengl with less syntax because js

[nocturne crow]

I would say because it was modern. It remove many unneeded legacy we should not need in modern graphic engine

[thorny gazelle]

Problem with FOSS engines like godot for high fidelity 3D shit is you have to basically write your own entire rendering system for it to not look like shit, and at that point you may as well write your own engine.

[nocturne crow]

If anyone want to do high fidelity I think only unreal is only choice, unity just second to it

[thorny gazelle]

Unfortunately the people who could fix those problems with godot are not very common and are often sought after industry candidates that work at big companies.

[thorny gazelle]

Yes, if Epic would stop bending over to the film industry and fucking over the engine’s real-time rendering capabilities in the process.

[nocturne crow]

godot are seriously don't made for any stress. Just because they don't use struct and instead use dictionary means all performance will go down the drain in every API call

[bright pine]

is unity admin not working at unity?

[nocturne crow]

No need to mention hi fidelity, just unity URP is already strain for godot

It need to complete rewrite on that part. I would recommend stride / flax / unigine if you don't need to publish web

[thorny gazelle]

Can you explain an API call to me? I’ve never been able to fully grasp it lol

[zenith echo]

I know I’m lazy. I don’t want to burn my Unity experience and collected Assets to ashes if I don’t have to. I am totally willing to walk away (I’m not going to pay $1 to reload in the heat of the moment; I’ll just change games).

But if they can fix the issues and make me happy, I’ll keep on it for now, out of convenience (but will much more likely be building an emergency exit plan, in case they pull future shenanigans, or the community completely dries up).

[thorny gazelle]

But yes their use of struck I can only imagine is detrimental

[bright pine]

can we fake profit?

[thorny gazelle]

Yes, fraud is indeed a possibility.

[visual stag]

It's renderer and potential in graphics is great. You'll not hear much praise for blue prints with programmers though. And Unreal macros are a constraint specific to the engine. 2d is progressing but still has some rough edges (work environment is in 3d, setup requires a bit of work, mobile export requires some knowledge). Not so many tutorials compared to Unity (a lot less). But.. have more tools built-in that are free compared to Unity.

[nocturne crow]

For example, Raycast
In unity we have Physics.Raycast(out var hit)
The hit is struct so it very solid and fast
But in godot,raycast will return Dictionary<string,object>
We need to lookup with string. And dictionary itself are instance of object

[bright pine]

how unity know we make profit?

[thorny gazelle]

Ohhh I see what you mean.

[thorny gazelle]

Devs are apparently supposed to report their revenue? I don’t know exactly.

[thorny gazelle]

So do those functions constitute an API call?

[nocturne crow]

The API call is a programming terms. In general its mean we call a function that someone was made for engine or library to make it work

[thorny gazelle]

Gotcha, see I thought it was something else entirely

[bright pine]

is there any how to cheat new pricing thing?

[sick night]

don't be successful

[thorny gazelle]

Don’t use Unity?

[quick kraken]

Presumably there will be a rev % cap so not really much reason to cheat it

[thorny gazelle]

Or just wait till they remove the system. Or edit it.

I’m sure what we’ve been given is not the final iteration of the pricing system.

[bright pine]

is this offical or just rumour?

[quick kraken]

Just rumor.

[thorny gazelle]

Rumor for now. Supposedly we’ll know tomorrow.

[zenith echo]

Just Application Programming Interface. You can kinda think of it as any magic black box where you request data or manipulate things without having to know what’s going on under the hood.

Just a communication contract between you and a system.

[thorny gazelle]

Yeah, I knew what an API was just not how a call was related. But that makes way more sense.

[bright pine]

is this impact to new game or old game only?

[thorny gazelle]

Both.

[bright pine]

then if old game, already spend their profit? still neeed to pay? what happen if not pay?

[sick night]

execution

[quick kraken]

It affects old games but you're only paying based on future purchases/installs of that game.

[thorny gazelle]

That’s still not clear. If you have more questions check the pinned messages.

[quick kraken]

Although installs that already happened count towards the install limit, they don't count towards the 0.2 usd per install.

So only new installs that happen after Jan 1. count for what you have to pay, and you'd still need revenue for it to apply. Although it can still seriously fuck you up if you have a large amount of customers already.

The rev % mostly fixes this.

So if you have 10 million installs already, you don't suddenly have to pay 2 million USD in January because of those installs, but installs that happen after January would incur a fee assuming you had revenue enough for it to apply.

[bright pine]

profit mean already minus budget right?

so if we get so much money, but the budget not cover yet, and still not make profit, it not need to pay per install right?

[indigo sluice]

yes correct

[bright pine]

I see, than can abuse budget than

[quick kraken]

No, that's not correct at all. It's not "Profit" it's "Revenue". You can not abuse budget.

[indigo sluice]

oh i misread what you wrote, it's total revenue
so if you earn more than 1mil you pay

[slate hill]

https://forum.unity.com/threads/unity-plan-pricing-and-packaging-updates.1482750/page-298#post-9353243

[nocturne crow]

I don't think you can abuse "budget" because they count your revenue, which means any incoming money, not a profit

[slate hill]

Good watch too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOCTSp_U-KI

[nocturne crow]

Now the thread reach 15000

[bitter tinsel]

still no news?

[quick kraken]

Dumb riddle leaks only.

[fair vigil]

only gross profit it seems

[bright pine]

no way from total revenue, so 100% greedy from unity, it like unreal but worst? because per install?

[quick kraken]

What is gross profit? I've only seen "Revenue" used as a word. Is this new?

[slate hill]

i would not call "Will's leaks" as dumb... they are the most reliable leak we have so far. he removed his tweeks shortly afterwards.... (pressured from up top maybe?).

[quick kraken]

Guys I'm gonna talk to you in movie titles okay, I promise it will be cheeky and way more fun than if I just leaked you straight info.

[slate hill]

and get fired? sure.

[quick kraken]

Yeah because it's totally okay to leak information if you hide it in movie titles and make it extremely obvious.

[slate hill]

which is probably why it ended up deleted. the hints were not vague at all.

[quick kraken]

Yeah, and that's why the leaks were dumb. Just say it straight if you're gonna leak

[fair vigil]

gross profit is all the money you make before any expenses or taxes are taken out

so lets say you make a sale for $10 on a steam game
iirc steam takes 30%

your gross profit is $10 but your net profit would be $7

[slate hill]

maybe you can join unity and give up proper leaks then.

[quick kraken]

Either they are too vague and no one understands them, and your leaks help no one, or they are not vague and you get disciplined just as much as you would have if you just leaked it straight.

[fair vigil]

and even then, if you're working with a team for example, you'll have to pay them as well, which can take even more out of your expenses

[quick kraken]

How is this different from revenue?

[fair vigil]

they arent
they're the exact same thing

you could swap out profit and revenue and the meaning doesnt change

[quick kraken]

I see. That's what was confusing me

[fair vigil]

my point was that they dont really care what you actually get out with
just how much you're making in general

[quick kraken]

Although according to google "Gross profit" is revenue minus production costs, which would be different and probably not what you meant

[nocturne crow]

I never have heard any announcement or even a leak that use word profit instead of revenue

[fair vigil]

idk
i was taught they're the same thing

[zenith echo]

Ummm not really true. Profit is what’s left after expenses, and revenue is the money made from the sale (before expenses).

Profits < Revenue

[fair vigil]

i guess i am a fool then
disregard me

[quick kraken]

Revenue is basically just how much money goes through your company.

If you buy ten billion worth of something and sell it for ten billion you have a revenue of ten billion but a profit of 0

[nocturne crow]

No, revenue, especially gross revenue, is all income you receive from anything related to product
Profit means after revenue was cutted by all the base cost

[elfin sail]

If you sell 1 copy of a game for $10 on Steam. The revenue is $10. That is before Steam takes their cut

[edgy yew]

Yup, our last game title for example was more of a passion project. Over 200k in revenue, but after costs was about -60k. And 450k downloads.

So with a 10% of profit, we would pay 0.

With a 10% of revenue, we would pay 20k+ after already being 60k in the hole.

[nocturne crow]

Such as electricity bill and subcontractor

[quick kraken]

I feel like this is a mistake on Steam's part. They didn't actually need to do it this way and it hurts devs without helping Steam

[elfin sail]

That is how all things work when selling goods. Steam is just an example

[nocturne crow]

That, I am not sure. Because steam cut their tax before give you money, so maybe 70% of full price is counted as revenue

[quick kraken]

It's not, though. If I sell my game at gamestop my revenue is not the price gamestop charged for it, it's what gamestop paid me for it.

I don't pay for chargeups by the third party seller.

[vernal vortex]

In this case your revenue would be 7 not 10

[quick kraken]

But steam sells your game "at full price" and then afterwards charges you 30% of that price, making your revenue 100% instead of 70%

[zenith echo]

If that was revenue in a rolling 12 month period, AND you didn’t just up to Pro where the limit is $1M ($2K per seat vs $20K fee). [Depending on what they change.]

If it moves to rev share over $1M you’d still pay $0.

[nocturne crow]

Normally we could assume that revenue is when money was transfer to company. And it would be banking transaction we could show that in this month we have this much income

[vernal vortex]

Your revenue is money coming in. I assure it is after steams 30% cut

[quick kraken]

Yeah but because of how steam words their sales it's different. Steam technically gives you the full price of the game and then subtracts their cut.

They could system it differently and make the 70% you get your revenue.

[edgy yew]

Yeah it was just more of an example, not really specific to the whole Unity thing

Our studios not impacted by the pricing change. But we are impacted by industry pricing. And already started our Unreal migration

[vernal vortex]

We have two published games on steam. I assure you our revenue is counted after the 30% cut

[elfin sail]

I would appear to be wrong. My bad

[quick kraken]

Wait, so you're reporting revenue after the cut? You're reporting 70% of sales figures as revenue?

[scarlet heath]

has there been any news?

[edgy yew]

It is actually revenue. If you check, depending on the tax status, steam has put tax claims that it was your full revenue and paid them out of it as a supplier.

[nocturne crow]

I beg you read it carefully

It doesn't matter steam was selling our game at full price. Because unity should not know the correct number of sell. So they not really know how much of our full price multiply by number of copy. What we need to show them is only the money that was transfer to our bank account from steam. And revenue share can only calculate from that. Same go for Google Play and AppStore

[vernal vortex]

We are reporting all money comming in the company as revenue. Steam sends us 70% of the sale

[quick kraken]

There are multiple people in this server, including mods, that have told me otherwise when I asked about this before. I'm not saying you are lying, just that clearly there is some confusion when it comes to this.

[vernal vortex]

They dont transfer 100% and then want 30% back

[nocturne crow]

Because they was assume that we will force to include IronSource and it will track number of install

[quick kraken]

I know this, it's done in the same transaction. But from a technical view a lot of people see the 100% as the money that went through your company.

[edgy yew]

If you list it at 10$, sell it at 10$ and steam gives you 7$ - that's actually your profit pre cost (7), your revenue is (10) but you automatically paid steam out of it

[fast wedge]

I suppose it depends on the TOS, game revenue or develooer revenue.

[quick kraken]

See, here is one such person disagreeing with you.

[edgy yew]

Yeah, it doesn't feel like revenue because it didn't hit your accounts, but they are charging you for it, filing taxes for it in that regard, and taking it from you. You did pay them for the service it is your revenue

[nocturne crow]

But in theory, steam has discounted and sales from various means. And so it cannot be accurate to assume revenue from store price. Only transaction is evidence of money we receive

[cunning gorge]

ye, revenue is what you can spend. If you sell something for $1 and the vendor you used kept 0.99, your revenue is 0.01
Unity's proposal is different because they would bill after the fact, not collect their cut and give you the rest.

[vernal vortex]

From an accounting point of view this is totally wrong. 10 bucks never went into your company. Your revenue is not 10.

[quick kraken]

So in conclusion, half the server thinks one thing and half the server thinks the other.

I agree with Uri personally but when I voiced that opinion in the past like 75% disagreed with me.

[nocturne crow]

I can assure you never be half to think that revenue share counting from store front price * copy

[fast wedge]

If Unity says game revenue it's the full 10$ that includes the steam cut. If they say developer revenue it's 7$

[slate hill]

Uri is wrong. But not interested in teaching accounting.. talk to an accountant.

[quick kraken]

Including mods of this server. Just look at the conversation right now. It's clearly 50/50.

[cunning gorge]

half of us are glad the IRS isn't counting Steam's cut as revenue.

[quick kraken]

And the other half are sad IRS is counting steam's cut as revenue because they report it as such

[zenith echo]

What does ChatGPT say? 😂

[vernal vortex]

I mean I dont think there is a difference on this between us an eu law. We operate a joint stock company under eu law so our financials are very strictly monitored by both the government and our investors. So I am sure we have been calculating our revenue correctly for the past 5 years.

[nocturne crow]

When people pay corporate tax I see people only send the banking transaction as evidence in accounting, not a steam number of sales

[quick kraken]

This is an incredibly worrying statement to have to make.

[cunning gorge]

GPT says: Revenue is the total amount of money generated by a business or organization through its primary operations, typically from the sale of goods or services to its customers. It represents the income earned before any expenses, taxes, or deductions are subtracted.

[slate hill]

Revenue is what's on the price tag. not what you receive.

[quick kraken]

But if I sold my game at gamestop my revenue would not be the price tag. It would be what I received from gamestop.

[cunning gorge]

y'all need accountants

[vernal vortex]

Why?

[vernal vortex]

If you sell your product directly then sure. If there is a middle man then no

[quick kraken]

It's a wording issue. If I sell my game to steam and steam sells it with a charge up to customers, it's not my revenue. If "I sell my game by setting up a shop at Steams storefront" then it's my revenue

[slate hill]

If you sold your own game yourself on your own website for $10... lets say your credit card processor takes $1... your revenue is still $10.. regardless of whether the cost is deducted BEFORE or after the sale is concluded.

[quick kraken]

In which case Uri owes quite a lot in taxes

[slate hill]

taxes are not made on revenue.. but on nett profits.

but unity and Unreal royalties are charges on your revenue.. not your nett profits.

[quick kraken]

A lot of rules change based on revenue.

[fast wedge]

Unity needs to define what they consider renenue in TOS

[scarlet heath]

Revenue is the money generated from normal business operations, calculated as the average sales price times the number of units sold.

src: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/revenue.asp

so according to investopedia,
Revenue = price * units sold

[slate hill]

doesn't need to... only silly game devs don't know what that is... all accountants do.

[quick kraken]

But this is STEAM's revenue

[nocturne crow]

There is VAT and Corperate Tax. Steam also include VAT and that was based on full price

[quick kraken]

Otherwise, me and steam are reporting the same exact transaction as revenue in the same exact way.

[slate hill]

VAT is different and works differently around the world.

[zenith echo]

ChatGPT: ‘If you sell a game on Steam for $10, and Steam takes a 30% cut, your revenue would be $7. Steam's 30% fee is deducted from the sale price, leaving you with $7 as your earnings.’ 😆

[nocturne crow]

You need also to file corporate tax. But I am not sure is it revenue or profit. Or is it difference for each country

[fast wedge]

Sorry But TOS and definitions matter, when you dealing with various countries

[vernal vortex]

That would be 100% true if my business was a sandwich shop that sold sandwiches from the counter

[nocturne crow]

We see chatgpt are never be an accurate source of truth

[quick kraken]

Like, what if I sell a game on steam on behalf of someone else and for my services I take 20%.

Now Steam reports 100% of the price as revenue, I report 100% of the price as revenue, and the party I sold games on behalf of also reports 100% of the price as revenue.

$10 worth of transaction happen but $30 worth of revenue reporting happened.

[slate hill]

i guess so. without clarifying it... people can make up their own definitions based on local customs

[brazen nexus]

You get net profit after deducting allowances, costs, and taxes

[scarlet heath]

I think we should get an accountant involved.
Instead of us fighting about it

[nocturne crow]

And unity can change on a whim anyway

[vernal vortex]

Taxes are on gross profit

[slate hill]

thats why i hire an accountant 😄

[vernal vortex]

So to put it simply revenue-expenses

[fair vigil]

costly?

[slate hill]

few hundred per year to look at your books once or twice a year.

[quick kraken]

This is why indie companies shutter so often after releasing a game.

[fair vigil]

not costly

[quick kraken]

Suddenly programmers and artists have to function as accountants and community managers.

[zenith echo]

Alright. I’m out. Goodnight all. Hopefully we’ll get more movie poster clues or an announcement soon.

[nocturne crow]

Well, right, I forgot that Unity could also define revenue in anyway they wanted

[scarlet heath]

Just hire someone to do the job for you.

[quick kraken]

Tomorrow we'll get a crossword where the solution just happens to be reassurances about the fee limit

[nocturne crow]

Like, as of now, they define couple of days to be more than 4 already

[quick kraken]

It's like an ARG to figure out what the hell we have to pay. On a thumbdrive hidden in London station the actual dev contract is hidden but you can only know that if you spectroanalyse the leaked recording from the meeting

[slate hill]

since they wont be making a weekend announcement? probab;ly a whole week later

[dark gulch]

Only unity can make a teaser on them unfucking themselves

[nocturne crow]

I'm not sure, recent announcement was Sunday and all people become panic on monday

[zenith echo]

They’ll hide the new plans in a geocache somewhere, only accessible after a successful scavenger hunt!

[nocturne crow]

They might just announce on Friday evening so stock market cannot react in time

[fast wedge]

Perhaps they are waiting for the US Friday market to close

[quick kraken]

I heard if you click the inspector window 500 times in 50 seconds a window pops up and defines the fee for you.

[slate hill]

Makes for a great documentary though... How to tank your 20 billion $ company in 24hrs!

[fast wedge]

12.7

[dark gulch]

You know what, I think you SAD SAPS need to stop being so negative

[quick kraken]

Here we are having a good time making fun of the movie poster announcement methodology

[nocturne crow]

If there are anything worsen, they can just fire Riccitiello on Sunday

[dark gulch]

Everything is gonna be okay, Tatu said so! And he would never lie

[quick kraken]

The 1999 pop group?

[dark gulch]

No, that's t.A.t.U, Tatu is the name of my squirtle plush friend

[quick kraken]

I see, then I will trust in him and wait patiently.

[dark gulch]

[dark gulch]

I was joking, you all aren't sad saps

[nocturne crow]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Unity3D/comments/16o4wvb/comment/k1j5zko/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

golden quote

[scarlet heath]

"When you are six years into making a Unity career and we ask you for $0.20 per install, you're really not that price sensitive at that point in time." - John Riccitiello

[upper heart]

Bro what?

[bright pine]

no way when he said that, everyone said yes2 it good, so genius

[upper heart]

There is no way he actually did say it

[summer hill]

bros any news

[limber widget]

well he said that about selling bullets in online shooting games

[upper heart]

Bro what? Wdym selling bullets?

[quick kraken]

It's a reference to the CEO talking about you paying money for reloads in a shooter, exploiting the fact that when you're desperate and engaged you are not price sensitive.

[edgy remnant]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR6-u8OIJTE&t=2s&ab_channel=bigcudafish

[quick kraken]

It's often used as an example to show his personality and the damage he's causing to the game industry.

[limber widget]

"this is a point that I think might be lost on many is a big and substantial portion of digital revenues are micro transactions. When you are six hours into playing Battlefield and you run out of ammo in your clip, and we ask you for a dollar to reload."

[upper heart]

I hope he doesn't ruin my life with this man

[limber widget]

"You’re really not very price sensitive at that point in time and for what it’s worth the cogs on the clip really low. And so essentially when as it happening and the reason though the play first, pay later model works so nicely is the consumer gets engaged in a property, they might spend 10, 20, 30, 50 hours in the game."

[upper heart]

Thats the stupidest thing i have ever read

[weary oxide]

when you are talking to investors they only care about what are gonna do to make more money, they don't care how you get that money so its normal for him to say something like that

[upper heart]

He is just greedy and wants to find an excuse to do this

[limber widget]

Well they guy really know how to milk money out of game addicts

[weary oxide]

what i meant most of public company's are like this

[limber widget]

it might sound stupid but it is pretty much like people buying energy to keep playing in mobile games

[upper heart]

Like this game enigne was mostly used because people dont have the money but want to make some, or just bring creative ideas to life. This is just greedyness at its finest

[edgy remnant]

kinda, but there is a balance to keep when charging people, charging reloads in a fps means the death of a game, charging devs x install, means the death of the engine, the CEO does not know when too much is too much

[weary oxide]

no people dont use unity for that reason , they use it cuz its flexible

[upper heart]

Well for thoose reason and for this reason

[limber widget]

lol funny humble bundle making a bundle on godot assets/course, probably just a coincidence🤣

[upper heart]

I have no idea who that is

[limber widget]

https://www.humblebundle.com/

[upper heart]

OOOOOOhhhhhhhh

[wide cradle]

Could someone explain briefly what Monogame is ? I just learn it's an engine apparently.

[charred pelican]

well, at least he like to think out of the box, and I'd like to suggest keeping him out of the box, this (box)

[summer hill]

also asset store

[weary oxide]

ahh right i forgot the unity community is massive compare to other engines

[vernal vortex]

It’s far from an engine. It’s a framework to make things easier like set up a window, render graphics, output audio and handle input. Everything else you implement yourself also there is no editor. It’s based on Microsoft XNA, that they stopped supporting.

[limber widget]

Well, unity is more user friendly so alot of people in education adopted it, making it bigger.

[rigid moon]

unreal also has asset store.

[summer hill]

smaller

[gritty night]

any news from unity?

[edgy yew]

Nothing yet!

[bright pine]

will unity dead?

[gritty night]

even if they revert from it they will still take a hard blow, since no one will trust them anymore for future projects

[bright pine]

is unity admin in discord not employee unity?

[vernal vortex]

No

[edgy yew]

Yeah. Besides the obvious issue of messing with their users money and finances - sending out multiple mixed messages on multiple platforms - and not formally rolling back or making a formal change for weeks...

... the reality is all of that will cause a perpetual churn. So going forward, someone will always say 'wasn't that the company that ...`

[gritty night]

yep

it bit depressing considering how some people spent so much time learning it and investing time and money in it

[edgy yew]

It's one of those things where you can't ever put the genie fully back in the bottle type things

[bright pine]

there no employee unity on this discord?

[gritty night]

even if there are i dont think they are allowed to talk about this

[edgy yew]

Yeah, plus it'll cost us a lot of churn. I hired 2 new FT unreal devs. The team is getting put into unreal training. And then we are stopping work for a while to do some internal game jams using unreal.

I'm hoping that gets my team excited about the change.

[bright pine]

there no ex employee?

[edgy yew]

Why do you want to talk to an employee? Maybe they aren't around. Or maybe they are and just don't see a reason to communicate with you one on one.

[foggy haven]

👋

[bright pine]

I want to know it will revert or not, already one week

[gritty night]

that up to the higher ups, not just an employee

[foggy haven]

news will come very soon

[bright pine]

oooo

[gritty night]

they will revert for sure, unless they are determined to kill the company
only thing left to do now is save whatever remains

[bright pine]

when news will come?

[foggy haven]

very soon 😄

[brazen nexus]

The most they could do is change the pricing but I don't think they will let the runtime fee slide

[nocturne crow]

What is the magnitude of soon in terms of log scale base 10 from 1 second to 1 year?

[foggy haven]

https://tenor.com/view/calculating-puzzled-math-confused-confused-look-gif-14677181

[bright pine]

I think the news will be, we will share and update in a couple month

[zenith sky]

Why doesn't unity staff have embed perms

[brazen nexus]

It says next few days in their website

[foggy haven]

I really can't say lest I lose my job you guys but little bit of patience, we want to get this out as soon as possible 🙂 Just reassuring you that it's def not gonna be months.

Unless we all go under a sleeping spell or something, can't control that

[edgy yew]

I'm sorry people are even asking you about it

[wide cradle]

Okidoki, thanks Uri 👍

[edgy yew]

Like, I get why, but I know the amazing unity staff are all carrying that collective burden on their shoulders right now

[foggy haven]

it's funny because I can't give a straight answer, but I understand the people are anxious about it. be patient and don't worry.

[nocturne crow]

not gonna be months seem able to stretch to 30 days

[gritty night]

it understandable no worries

[zenith sky]

Who cares? if it's gonna take some time to fix this issues and find a solution give them time

[bright pine]

when higher up make this pricing update? is employee shock as we?

[gritty night]

well there was one who issued death threats , so you can imagine how they feel now

[nocturne crow]

I don't feel Riccitiello and the board are take times to fix this issues and find a solution. I feel like they only take time to make more problem the longer they are in position

[indigo sparrow]

if emploee threatens to suicide, does it count as death threats to company?

[gritty night]

i didnt look into details tbh, is that what really happened with the guy?

[indigo sparrow]

I dont think so. That was just intrusive thought of mine.

[foggy haven]

we are in absolute agony as well, I wish this was over. Imagine the thing you've built with so much love being the new internet drama. it would be nicer if people didn't come here just to troll, but we still love you guys to bits. trust me when I say we're only around because you are making stuff and it's to our best interest you keep doing so. so don't worry, we were on the same team from the start, we just messed up the plan.

[gritty night]

well i dont think so, but would be pointless to take your life for people who dont care about it, value your life over scum

[rigid moon]

i wouldnt say "we messed up" john and higher ups messed up.

[nocturne crow]

Did we are majority of employee, and is that include Riccitiello, I don't feel that way for Riccitiello at all

[nocturne island]

In what dimension does that question make any sense. North Korea?

[edgy yew]

I'm not judging on that topic. My sister in law works in HR, and had someone make credible threats about killing her for firing them - the concern and stress there is absolutely worth taking seriously, especially after seeing how much it internalizes for everyone.

[foggy haven]

yes but at the end of the day we're a team. it doesn't represent me but it is my problem to solve as well

[bright pine]

no way, I thought this issue small matter

[rigid moon]

agree, as a team you guys massively screwed up and hope you guys can fix it somehow

[sweet minnow]

I'm so sorry for you guys. Building a complex creative heaven and spending years of hard work and love, just to see it get torn down in basically hours

I hope the announcement is something that will protdct customers in the future, so your work just doesn't get destroyed and that all of that lead to a more healthy industry and unity (as a company not you guys) actually caring about their devs

[foggy haven]

that's the plan 💪

[gritty night]

yet you dont have the power to change it, so no point worrying about it
best you can do is to try to convince the higher ups

[zenith sky]

it's hard to make a public company care about their costumers not just money

[rigid moon]

no its a team effort, i respect him for taking ownership and responsibility so he can take actions to try and fix it.

[quick kraken]

It's not your personal fault, hope you don't personally feel agony from this.

Also, is there a coded message in this alluding to future news? That seems to be the most reliable communication method recently.

[nocturne crow]

Could you tell us just this, is the plan are already finished and just prepared the date and language to be announced. Or actually the plan was not agreeable as of yet?

[nocturne island]

That's great team work an all, but aren't you a small employee in a massive company. I don't see how any of this fall on you to "fix". Unless you were in a room with them when this new pricing was being planned.

[gritty night]

when a guy in a company commits a murder, he and he alone get held responsible
i dont see how the entire unity staff get to take the blame for some stupid few higher ups decision

[foggy haven]

No I wouldn't dare do that, there's no point. I can only reassure you in all honesty that the feedback is being heard.

[light cipher]

<@&502884371011731486>

[zenith sky]

if they are trying to fix this without reverting the policy there needs to be a lot of thought to make sure people won't still be mad

[sweet minnow]

Actually it is pretty easy when they learn that doing scumback moves like this destroys them
If they go in any direction like unreal and care about their creators I'm betting you their stoxk is gonna sky rocket in the long run

[foggy haven]

lol yikes I didn't even see that, wild

[indigo sparrow]

that was uncalled for.

[rigid moon]

i dont think we know enough to place blame on any staff, but staff that do take responsibility to make change is good and respectable. other then going "not my issue i didnt do it im not the boss"

[gritty night]

this channel need a +18 tag if u cant handle such talk

[zenith sky]

yes i agree but they will never really care about their customers they just wont try to make them mad because that means they wont get their money

[patent lark]

There's absolutely no need to speculate or discuss that here

[gritty night]

yeah i understand your point, it just sad that they take the heat as well

[foggy haven]

'the plan' is a stand in for 'what will happen' not anything specific. still, 'the plan' is for us to have listened to everyone's feedback and taken action on it. it takes time.

[indigo sparrow]

roger that.

[patent lark]

It's massively inappropriate and not the kind of thing this discord exists for

[bright pine]

is this first time you heard? or it already planning long time ago? just not announcement yet?

[foggy haven]

believe it or not sometimes we work like that even with small employees. doesn't always work but right now it's all hands on deck

[light cipher]

This is the official Unity owned Discord and an extension of their workplace. I can handle it. They shouldn't have to endure it.

[quick kraken]

It depends. There were some actions that could have been taken immediately, and the delay caused a lot of people a lot of grief. I get that the new plan takes time but the slow response has been really painful.

An immediate "We will revert this and come back with a plan without the problems you guys have mentioned, although there will still be a price increase" would have been helpful.

[rigid moon]

get rid of install tracking thats just stupid, do simple revshare like unreal, dont do retroactive tos and most issues will be solved.

[nocturne crow]

They was laid off so many since beginning of the year though

[versed swan]

That's what they want to do now, apperently leaks are saying they want 4% revnue of over 1mill

[rigid moon]

no its not simple the leaks are complicated and stupid, do asimple revshare like unreal

[quick kraken]

Capped at 4% is the rumor. Still install based but "self reported"

[nocturne crow]

Seem like Riccitiello can't stand that. And that guy is CEO. So unless he being fired there are no way to backtrack the install tracking in anyway since he acquire IronSource

[zenith sky]

considering the subscriptions i do think it should be lower or just a lower price for subscriptions

[foggy haven]

I agree that the silence is painful, that's why I'm trying to come here and say whatever I actually can say. It's hard to believe me when I say don't worry because no one trusts unity right now, but make an effort.

[nocturne crow]

I don't want to break anyone dream but to be blunt. Only way every employee could save company is to do everything, include company wide protest, and that incident we had talk about, to change the head

[rigid moon]

thats why we are all here because we all like unity, if we didnt want it to be better we wouldnt be here

[azure stone]

I'm happy with unreal's 5% cut -and I switched over a year ago. Unity should recognise that the problems here are not primarily to do with the cost increase, there is scope for unity to take a (imo fairer) larger cut. But by God they handled it the worst possible way imaginable

[quick kraken]

That's what I was referencing when I alluded to the coded message. A unity employee apparently put out a list of "good movies" that contained a secret message alluding to the new policy. Presumably because they understand the silence is painful

[light cipher]

@foggy haven do you mind if I ask what is your role at Unity?

[bright pine]

is higher up, just decided like that? what happen like employee say no, we can't do this, because of etc2, is opnion employee on unity not accept?

[gritty night]

no one trusts the "higher ups"
you guys coming here is a nice welcome change

[foggy haven]

I'm making the Lighting systems better 🙂

[quick kraken]

I'd love it if I could manually set lighting directions on 2d lights. 🥺

[upper heart]

Damn, the problem is that you are going to overwork yourself for that and only a few people will use it cause they will go to godot

[foggy haven]

https://www.moviequotes.com/topic/patience/

[nocturne crow]

Normally yes, and employee's opinion always being neglect because employee mostly don't know the money situation of company

[bright pine]

I mean like related job, for example the dev that one making per install detection

[light cipher]

Awesome.

[foggy haven]

unfortunately I only work with 3D lighting, but you can submit that on the 2D roadmap!

https://unity.com/roadmap/unity-platform/2d

[sweet minnow]

The decoded message seems to generous, I can't imagine that this will be the outcome, it would be great and if they would have done that in the first place everything would have been different.
Well lets wait, seems like we are getting something official very soon

[wide cradle]

Oh yeah, u talking about Will Goldstone I assume 👍 He pushes movie quote on Twitter about current situation

[foggy haven]

im already overworked, don't worry. what gives me energy is the power of this community. that's why I was gutted when people straight up said we're leaving

"and I took that personally"

[upper heart]

Yeah, we need to stop the ceo man

[nocturne crow]

That's very unlikely, they will choose people who fit the job to do that job. And for install detector they would choose someone loyal and highly valued income. It's also very likely they just bring people from IronSource to do that

[rigid moon]

biggest thing even if everything get reversed and fixed is gaining peoples trust, because people are leaving just because trust is lost something like this wont happen agian in future.

[zenith sky]

it's not just the CEO but also the board

[gritty night]

it sounds like it a bad thing for you, but it actually good
no other way to convince the higherups to rollback on this decisions, boycutting them is the only way
Might be the only save to unity

[upper heart]

Wait what!?!?! The board agreed to this?!?!?!

[rigid moon]

ceos arnt dictators they have to get approval from all sorts of people, they all agreed and signed off on it

[quick kraken]

Just did, although the roadmap appears to move very slowly and probably too slow to affect any projects I currently have going.

[upper heart]

Bro 😭

[foggy haven]

don't worry about me, I choose to stay

[bright pine]

is so many people leaving? is unity recruiting job? or just outsource?

[vernal vortex]

Probably the idea came from the board in the first place. Since the current CEO joined unity things have been going okey.

[upper heart]

Im already half way into my first steam game so i need to stay, im in a point where i cant turn back

[vernal vortex]

Its going public that was the mistake

[quick kraken]

S... Since the current CEO joined?

[nocturne crow]

Not really surprising, the board is the one who choose CEO, and some was speculate that actually Riccitiello was not really want to push it this hard, but the board pressing him too

[zenith sky]

a company going public is rarely a good thing

[vernal vortex]

Yeah since 2014

[sweet minnow]

I think this is part of the reason these changes happen in the first place. The people saying "you know what unity, you are not doing enough for me to pull that, I'm fine without you"
I hope that not everyone is not just going and that unity can restore trust
I would be fine without unity, I still like to use it, I know my workflow in there, I just need to wait if I can trust them in the future for future projects

[spark grotto]

https://twitter.com/willgoldstone/status/1705115457664036996 News coming today.

[quick kraken]

It's a death sentence really. It guarantees short term growth and then that some upstart will take over when you trade what people want for what you want.

[upper heart]

Yeah but now i want to ask whats in it for us to stay and not go to a different engine?

[slate hill]

the death threats are apparently from a Unity Employee.

[bright pine]

is private company good?

[gritty night]

yeah i heard

[quick kraken]

...Isn't the CEO blamed for the majority of dumb decisions they make?

[zenith sky]

if they fix this issue i wont switch

[zenith sky]

they are usually less greedy

[vernal vortex]

Blamed yes. This is why CEO’s get paid so much. Because the board forces them to implement something dumb and they are the public face of the company. While the actual people responsible for it can stay in the shadows.

[quick kraken]

They are also fine with just existing as-is and have no desperate need for growth. Like steam being mostly unchanged for 10 years without any desperate push for more users and whatnot

Like if a private company makes 10 million profits 10 years in a row, it's amazing. If a public company makes 10 million in profits 10 years in a row, it's fucked.

[charred pelican]

why not both? XD

[frank iron]

...how is it possible to grow further...the market is already full unless take away from competitor

[sweet minnow]

Because making the next engine to a monopoly would only make it happen again
We, as creators, need to show unity, we can without you and we are watching you very closely, so better don't f*ck us over, act in our interesst, be transparent and everything will be fine otherwise we are out

[quick kraken]

You have narrowed down one of the major issues plaguing economics and civilization today.

[frank iron]

is acquiring IronSource his idea ?

[charred pelican]

We, as creators, need to show unity, we can without you and we are watching you very closely, so better don't f*ck us over, act in our interesst, be transparent and everything will be fine otherwise we are out
unfortunately this could go both way

[quick kraken]

Rumor has it a 1.3 billion silver lake investment was contingent on them buying IronSource

[bright pine]

is ironsource good thing?

[frank iron]

is ironsource helping unity making ads service ?

[vernal vortex]

Well for startes ironsource was a merger. And nobody knows whos idea was it.

[slate hill]

AppLovin launches free tool to help devs migrate from Unity to other engines amid controversial Runtime Fee rollout.

Scan source project and detect files eligible for migration;

Use the power of LLMs to translate Unity classes into scripts used by other engines (it currently supports Godot and Unreal).

https://github.com/ProjectUnifree/unifree
(Basically ChatGPT 3.5 AI to convert your c# code to GDscript and C++)

[nocturne crow]

No in every aspect

[frank iron]

Unifree..

[bright pine]

insane

[upper heart]

Nice

[unreal scroll]

https://twitter.com/willgoldstone/status/1705115457664036996

[quick kraken]

I will admit I don't really get this. I strongly suspect it's not good

[frank iron]

how do this tool translating code in C# to C++ in UE?

[slate hill]

it's not "perfect"... but if you are porting a game out... it will save your tons of time.

[nocturne crow]

Their service are really not that great from the start, arguably broken, yet unity are very excited to join with them instead of AppLovin which is the best tool since then
I would say IronSource is not worst, just 4th or 5th placed right there

[vernal vortex]

With chatgpt so it wont translate anything more complex than the example.

[quick kraken]

There are parts of the porting which are (relatively) quick and effortless, in which case you don't need a tool. Then there are parts that are difficult, in which case these tools don't help that much

[vernal vortex]

It probably wont. Our attepts to use chatgpt for any serious coding have so far resulted in massive failure

[nocturne crow]

But IronSource is always shady as being spyware. Their reputation is very low

[quick kraken]

Like will it correctly set up Unreal equivalent of collision layers or your event system or your animation graph? probably not.

[slate hill]

Although Unifree is already good at translating overall logic, the results still require manual tweaks. So it is more about creating a baseline to accelerate the migration process.

“I wanted to demonstrate that we can utilize modern LLMs to ease the transition between Unity and other engines and I think early results are positive,” Shikin said. “It makes sense, because fundamental game engine structures are similar, but language and APIs can vary a lot. This is exactly what LLMs are good at: generalizing and translating an idea.”

[nocturne crow]

In short no one want to use them. But it seem whole board include JR at that time see it as opportunity to make money by converting every unity game as spyware

[frank iron]

...I think, if the tool can translate scene into other engine is good enough already.
just convert migrate code mnually

[nocturne crow]

And this plan now is second step. To force every unity developer to use IronSource, make a spyware as a game. And anyone who not comply to this need to give money to them till bankrupcy

[slate hill]

godot already imports unity scenes and unityasset files.

[frank iron]

✅

[nocturne crow]

Then Riccitiello could proudly present that merging with IronSource are profitable to Unity company

[slate hill]

unreal has paid scene conversion tools in the unreal store.

[main lily]

It does? By default? Thats crazy
But cool

[slate hill]

aye. doesn't work 100% of the time.. but usually works (crossing fingers helps)

[charred pelican]

that's one of the reasons I'm still using unity 2021.3

[rigid moon]

doesnt matter new TOS apply to everyone

[modern wadi]

they removed the clause in the tos that said if you use an old version of unity that versions tos is what you release your game under going forword they are apliying the new TOS to every game made with any version of unity

[zenith sky]

is that legal

[tranquil dagger]

Long story short, there was a second tos. One for editor and one for unity in general

[modern wadi]

i belive so the tos of a licends product can be changed by the creator of the product at anytime from my understanding

[rigid moon]

unitys lawyers said they give 3 months warning so its okay.

[frank iron]

most people here assume one version TOS for one version of Unity Editor (and they can use prev version of IDE without acceping unfair policy with new version IDE)
I think Unity corp are trying to define a their service is "servicing all version of Editor" so there is one TOS for all version of Unity Editor.

[modern wadi]

also they removed the github repo that tracked changes to the tos and removed the cluse saying that they can not change the tos without getting first feed back on proposed changes to the tos aka we have to give feed back on changes befor anything can be done

[zenith sky]

how can you break the tos and just remove it from the tos after?

[slate hill]

Legal Gymnastics

[modern wadi]

if you remove the clause you can dop anything you want

[zenith sky]

but doesn't the TOS say that they can't force you to have the version where it is changed

[bitter tinsel]

Yes

[modern wadi]

they removed that so they can

[scarlet heath]

legal loopholes that puts them in a winning position

[slate hill]

it's the reason most of us are leaving unity. They can change the TOS again next week.. or next year... maybe you aren't affected by the TOS changes now... but you could at any point in time get screwed over with no recourse.

[zenith sky]

so can unreal

[weary oxide]

i dont think they will do it again after the backlash

[scarlet heath]

for now,
but maybe in another 3 years or so

[slate hill]

yes but for now.. they have ironclad TOS that is locked to version.. if you refuse the new TOS you can stay with the older version and keep the old TOS. its in their TOS.

[rigid moon]

so can windows so can anyone, but unity has done it twice now, unreal and no one else has any sign of doing it

[weary oxide]

if we gonna use this mind set then even UE can change tos

[indigo sparrow]

at 2018 /2019 they did something similar already. had backlash, rollbacked changes. So... yeaa...

[modern wadi]

look TOS' are the stander agreement and the company providing the product can change them however they see fir so if they see fit to remove the clause saying they cant change the tos without iforming the community they can do that if they want once it is removed there is nothing we can do about it. if a company dose not want to do something stated in the tos they just change the wording or delete sections all together

[scarlet heath]

yes. they can.

again, an agreement is based on the idea of trust and honesty.
up to you to trust Epic
or go full neckbeard and trust FOSS instead

[nocturne crow]

https://twitter.com/willgoldstone/status/1705115457664036996

[zenith sky]

just replace the board and CEO

[nocturne crow]

Tomorrow?

[main lily]

Sounds more like today. In a few hours maybe
If you mean the tweet

[modern wadi]

60% percent of people agreeing to TOS' never actualy read them in the tos for NBS streaming service peacock if you use it you agree that the cake resipe in the tos, witch is the qween of englands favorit is the best in the world and the only one that should be made

[nocturne crow]

Good news?

[weary oxide]

i hope so

[nocturne crow]

Not sure they will just announced in morning

[modern wadi]

they waited till like 6 or 7 pm last sunday for their apology

[craggy rivet]

Announcements will be on pacific time

[modern wadi]

so what like some were between 6-9 am pacific time

[slate hill]

according to this, the news is embargoed until the americans wake up. https://twitter.com/willgoldstone/status/1705115457664036996

[zenith sky]

west coast according to the comments

[light cipher]

Let me get this right. I'm on UK time. No announcements for me therefore i can use the old TOS right? 😉

[frank iron]

Hello everyone, I'm curious about what Unity services are actually included in the Terms of Service (TOS).

Let's consider a scenario where there is a TOS for a specific version of Unity Editor. It's worth noting that the Asset Store server is shared among all versions of Unity Editor.

If a user does not agree to the latest version of the TOS for Unity 2023, do they still have the right to use Unity 2021 along with the Asset Store?

[slate hill]

No it's retroactive. applies to all versions of unity.

[frank iron]

yes I am aware of the newest unfair policy retroactively apply to all version of Edtors, I was assuming that if Unity is rollback the policy.
in that case, is user still valid to use Asset Store

[slate hill]

Wait and see after the news i guess.

from what we know.. there is no rollback.. they just added more terms to it. and added a cap to the install fees.

[nocturne crow]

This is hillarious
I just now know Banks of America encourage people to buy unity stock at date 15. Unity stock slide downhill 12% since then
https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/b-of-a-securities-upgrades-unity-software-u

Their so called analyst are excited to see the fee plan and very sure it will profit unity. Nothing could be more wrong

This totally reflect the mindset of executive who don't know anything about arts and crafts

[slate hill]

Asset store is different TOS and unrelated to this fiasco. i am moving engines and i'll be reusing my assets.

[wide cradle]

I'm confident there will announce more than that

[slate hill]

yeah will goldstone also said there are "very different" things in there.

from his last movie trivia leak

[jagged turret]

Well, someone wrote for unity stock it is game over.
He is so right, as that trust they evaporated could never ever gained back.
Sure, if necessary people will continue to use unity for a while, but invest into a community engine. Unity dries out, maybe until it is sold.

[slate hill]

unity has much more than just an engine now... look at all the companies they bought.

[upper heart]

And i wasted money on the unity asset store

[golden valve]

West coast time, so for those in Europe, that will be after 6PM.

[craggy rivet]

It will be, at the earliest, 7-8 hours from now

[worn orbit]

That's tomorrow in Japan 🥲

[jagged turret]

And that makes things different?

[slate hill]

yeah it means their stock price isn't just based on their engine.

[wide cradle]

U can contact the artists behind each assets. I did refound some of my clients / gave them itchio keys so they can keep assets out of the Unity Asset Store.

[upper heart]

Nah i still need to finish my game

[jagged turret]

But it is about the trust to them, thats the value which forms the trust. People boycotting their ironsource and ads.

[upper heart]

So at 6 pm for me ill get the news

I really hope its good news and they wont do it

[slate hill]

they own many unrelated products... like people making hollywood movies using speedtrees for their environment don't care about this fiasco.

[fast wedge]

In 6 or 7 hours it will be 11pm Friday AU time will be way too drunk to care!!!!!

[rain ibex]

what about using Unreal Engine 5 in a potato PC, by disabling the features and settings can i make games with Unreal Engine 5 by using potato PC?

[slate hill]

saw a video.. from 20fps to 140fps in editor... by diabling shadows, nanites, lumens etc.

[rain ibex]

so it is do-able with a potato PC?

[slate hill]

try it. it's free. there are limits to spoonfeeding 😛

[upper heart]

[rain ibex]

what is spoonfeeding, also everybody maybe shoutout to nuviidi he/she asked question so far nobody answers him/her tho (nvm but he/she deleted)

alright

[willow musk]

oh man i forgot this channel existed for a whole day XD guess everything is back to normal?

[cedar tree]

hm So long we get 0 News for the Future, i am really demotivated. And you ??

[marsh bluff]

theres news coming in a few hours

[nocturne crow]

Arguably should be less than 12 hours, if no any other things happen

[indigo sparrow]

it feels like discord before new years...

[upper heart]

Same

[bitter tinsel]

Am I the only one who is not excited about this news? They're just gonna go with their original plan and less peopl will be unhappy then if they announced it immediately.

[surreal basin]

update: "unity bankrupt if 20cent install fee is not established" ?

[upper heart]

We need to count on the hackers to somehow disable the system internally

[surreal basin]

no, just abandon unity

[upper heart]

I cant im hqlfway done with my steam game

I cant just let it go now

[surreal basin]

release and abandon, use something else in the future

[upper heart]

Yeah i just gotta finish this onr (although ill need to pay the 0.20cent fee if they dont delete that (hope they do))

[surreal basin]

welcome to ea ehhhhh unity

[nocturne crow]

In reality they can't go bankrupt. They still have stream of revenue from our subscription and more people join course with unity every year, become industry standard, being used in film and digital twin, many cloud service and solid ads platform which can used in mediation even without IronSource also a great revenue source, everything is normal

All the deficit came from mismanagement. Acquiring useless service and company then try to shove us to use it while we don't need

[upper heart]

EXACTLY THEN WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

[cedar tree]

best of all is: unreal cant even handle my Charakter Bones LOL
hm.
Feeling alone
demotivated
Demoralized
... dont know. I am really down the moment

[surreal basin]

all the income makes no sense if their expenses are higher than that, thats the definition of going bankrupt

[nocturne crow]

What I am saying is their expense is just nonsense and there was no logical reasons to go bankrupt, only stupid and illogical reasons

[rugged flume]

Stand up and go chill a bit. Does wonders on morale

[surreal basin]

not in defense of unity, but for someone it all made sense, like the 20cents ransomfee did

[cedar tree]

i am since "5" Days on "Chilling" and do know nothing what i can do with myself in the time

• gaming ? ah no.
• movies ? Longly

dont knwo what to do
and if i open unity, i feel demotivated.

[native pendant]

Finally we are getting an update today apparently

[nocturne crow]

The problem is now they just lose 18% of their stock price just utter it out loud and didn't got any cent from that plan as of yet

[native pendant]

Time to prepare for disappointment? Lmao

[sweet minnow]

New news to this whole thing coming later. It will be atleast 6-7 hours tho

[nocturne crow]

I would recommend UniFree

[cedar tree]

UniWhat ?

[surreal basin]

learn another engine

[nocturne crow]

https://github.com/ProjectUnifree/unifree

[cedar tree]

only engine Perspketiv is Unreal, and this is ... so much stupid workflow that i really annoyed by this. This ... is ... nightmare

[rugged flume]

You could try to work on anything about your game that doesnt require an engine, like design documents, drawings, ideas, etc., while the storm calms

[nocturne crow]

nightmare start from unity. Now you are struggle to fight with it

[cedar tree]

All other is final.

• Story, Ideas, Places all other. even stages.
  but only to work on will be charakters. in case i need to switch to unreal, it s not possible, unreal cant handly my bones struckture. So if i work on, i waste time.

[nocturne crow]

It's not possible that some engine out there cannot handle just a bone structure. More like you need some conversion and it will work

[cedar tree]

out of unreal there no asset stores.
no weather system
no usable good vehicle system
no particle systems

... it s just not interesting, to work in enginges without every background. You need for example months to do a good realtime weather system or other.

[nocturne crow]

Try stride or unigine maybe?

[sweet minnow]

Why can't unreal handle your bone structre, it seems to me like you f'ed up in modelling and rigging

[nocturne crow]

There are surely tools for conversion, I can assure you

[cedar tree]

unreal cant raytarget on Daz rigs.
my Work have more than 500 Animations on background (Handmade) all made on my bone struckture.
This is not a typically daz rig, it s a reworked blender charakter.
Rotations are wrong
if i change, i loose all my own animations, COMPLETLY
also: i need to rework the Rig.
There 2 Ways: A with a pricy Blender Plugin, changes all Rotations to understand to unreal also the Rig, need a new export over daz to blender bridge, and kills all my work
or: remapping to the Bones of Unreal Mannequing Skeleton. Same result.
Other way not possible.

[weary oxide]

its really hard for me to move to another engine , because I expect it to have the same workflow as unity

[cedar tree]

convert Enviro Sky (not 3, only enviro sky) to flax or other engine, we talk again after you made this.
edy vehicle community, you cant, it s locked DLL's

[sweet minnow]

Seems to me like you are trapped with unity either way. Just do your work then, what is your alternative? Give up?

[slate hill]

if you can't port those.. then find new alternatives in the unreal store... there's plenty of stuff that can do the same/similar things.

on the upside... the entire megascans library is now free.

[charred pelican]

@rigid moon
I'm not talking about the ToS, I'm talking about the ironsource sdk. Older versions before unity acquire ironsource should not have those 'spy' sdk

[cedar tree]

out of the point, what extrem effort is needet, to convert my project only in materials and meshes to unreal (this is .... ) by side:
i am not something like a "RPG" or "Car Race" i am a GTA Style NSFW game.
in unreal, this is a start from 0, without any knowledge to this engine, and a Workflow in the middle of stoneage. I did try serval things, and watch around there since 1 week. 400$ invest, in a stoneage Workflow, and standing before 0

[nocturne crow]

I see, that's not a model but effect system

[slate hill]

If you can't switch engines.. like a lot of other folks deep in their projects. then cross your fingers and hope the new tos is acceptable to you. good luck with that.

[cedar tree]

yes. A lot ppl told "We change engine, we change engine" the Problem with this is: the most of them, are really not think twice. They just think it is that easy. You need more than just put some meshes inside an engine. YOu need material and programming skills, knowing the workflow, knowing physics handling, and Save Systems, inventory Systems, Particle systems: SHORTLY you need more, than just 3 Lines of Code, and some Meshes. This all, they overwatch, and think it is easy to change... it will be not.

[cedar tree]

Thank you. I hope so. Now you know how i feel. The last 7 years, nearly 0 Days pass without 6 - 16 hours Unity daylie. Maybe : togehter ~ 20 Days without unity.
Now i am sitting here, know nothing, cant change, and the this time TOS; kill my project. Great.

[nocturne crow]

That's regrettable but still it was something which can be replaced

[modern wadi]

no they will becuse how else are you going to track when a game is installed

[nocturne crow]

And, I am not so sure, but isn't default skybox system in unreal already great enough?

[cedar tree]

yes. For example: you need a Vehicle system ? Off course, you can do this in flax. Maybe ? 1 year ? Up to have every bug fixed, every physic works, every system is running that makes you happy. You can do.
After this, do a weather System including calendar, particles, ssystems, day and night cycle and other, find all bugs, all problems with post processing and other.
Maybe ? A year to ?
Than, do an inventory system, i wrote my own, 4 Months of Development.
You can do.
After lets say ~ 3 Years of Flax, you able to START WITH YOUR PROJECT
you have non until this, just the state there you was before.

[signal frost]

this is why some people make their own engine

[rugged flume]

Chad "making your own engine" gang (They might end up forgetting they wanted to make a game)

[signal frost]

yeah well you can't really do both at the same time

[rugged flume]

A sad thruth :(

[nocturne crow]

I mean replaced with similar asset in unreal

[charred pelican]

dunno, maybe using the platform provider's API? like google playstore api on android, steam api from steam?
not really care anyway

[cedar tree]

not only this. This is just a Joke. The Knowledge to build a OWN ENGINE will not inside the Ppls Mind who talking about. This is a so much complicatet Process, they did not think twice. This is not done by buildiung a Windows UI. you need API's Updates, Mesh Knowledge,calculations, you need to build Physics, Animation management........ "i do my own enine" Great. They should start doing a Paint Program, then they know they will never reach an own engine.

[rugged flume]

what

[cedar tree]

will also not really work. First you need to learn all in Unreal. After this ,i loose my base staff, see above: unreal cant handle my bones.
At the end: an inventory for example is useless to me in unreal, i need my own, because my own systems depent on this, and a lot more
YES you can do this like i did in unity.
lets say ~ 4 - 6 years up to the point you are Able to have enugh knowledge needet for my projects, you are bugfree, and know what point to do to reach what goal.
You can not do th is in a time of 1 or 2 years, not possible.

[modern wadi]

that would be nice but steam and google only track who bought the game and who is currently in the game playing it right now

[signal frost]

isn't that what you need though? the number of installs is pretty much the number of purchases for a paid game, and for a free to play the same can be applied

A rough estimate but at least you won't go bankrupt by some dude installing your game over and over a few million times

[charred pelican]

another problem with making your own engine is, the platform is also evolving. The moment your engine work, you'll realize that your engine obsolete, then you'll have to update it to catch up with the new platform. it's an endless cycle

[rain ibex]

unreal engine 5 how to disable features and settings with a potato PC? Any video or blog about it that i can refer to?

[signal frost]

honestly the big reason why I started unity in the first place was my potato PC

[charred pelican]

same here, potato laptop

[modern wadi]

yes but what if you download a game from say itch.io but never install it or you install it and never play it

[rain ibex]

I watch all videos regarding "unreal engine 5 disabling features and settings with a potato PC" but still i wonder if there is a full tutorial about it

[modern wadi]

i bought a few games online that i have never installed

[signal frost]

I had to learn C# even tho I did C++ in highschool so unreal would've been a better option, but it was so slow on my PC I just learned unity

[modern wadi]

fun fact the godot 4 engine can run fully on a android tablet downloeded though google play

[charred pelican]

maybe you can edit the engine.ini and tinker around to have the lowest working setting...
but personally, I'm not suggesting unreal 5 on anything with less than 16 GB RAM and 4VRAM

[rain ibex]

well i just want to make a game

[signal frost]

same here, but again, it's a rough estimate, but it's more than good enough imo

[rain ibex]

alright, thx guys and girls

[modern wadi]

yes but mostlikly to unity they need an exact amount

[signal frost]

yes but I did 3D models in blender for the past 4 years so it would be a shame to do a 2D game when I know nothing about drawing. Ik godot can somewhat do 3D but it hasn't evolved yet to where I want it to

[signal frost]

no since well... no matter the approach they won't get the exact ammount, there is piracy, multiple installs on the same device ect.

honestly I am waiting for an update on the price thing, but like a summary with every change that has taken place and how the model looks like right now. Putting it together site by site gets confusing

[charred pelican]

godot 4 is quite good actually, just like unity 4 in term of graphics, not exactly HDRP capable(?) but I think it's good enough.. graphically...
still cant wrap around the node system though...

[modern wadi]

you can do 3d in godot

[modern wadi]

they are not counting any of that

[signal frost]

yeah but how do you figure out which ones were pirated or reinstalled without spyware

[signal frost]

you're missing the point I just made

[modern wadi]

you cant that is why nobody likes this idea

[charred pelican]

this could be a good game idea... pirate vs spy

[signal frost]

at least something good came out of this then, that and jokes (many jokes)

[modern wadi]

no while unity can do some better things in 3d then godot. godot is very capible

[light cipher]

The names Blackbeard, Captain Blackbeard.

[sweet minnow]

May I ask what kindof 3D games you do, you wouldn't be able to do there?
Not trying to convince you, just curious

[signal frost]

yeah but unity has more time and plugins in this field, also many more tutorials as godot is mainly used for 2D atm

[signal frost]

uh well for the moment I'm making some portal 2 + geometry dash mashup, after that I'm looking to make some cartoony parkour- combat game but that will be probably done in unreal if I get a new PC by then

[lean turtle]

Unity is pretty much burning ship rn.
I chose godot. It has freedom vibe

Unity feels too much corporate for me

[sweet minnow]

I see, so quite physics heavy. Yea that isn't the strong point of godot. While they should be possible, with your previous point about missing tutorials, I can understand your decission

[signal frost]

yeah and my skills aren't exactly cutting edge either so anything that makes my life easier helps

[sweet minnow]

Understandable

[signal frost]

which is why it is such a shame for this entire ordeal to happen in the exact year I start game dev

I mean unity doesn't want to die I assume so there will probably be a fix to this situation, like a bandage, things will never be the same but at least they learned the importance of trust so hopefully we won't see a repeat of this in a few years

[modern wadi]

i get you pain i was learning microsoft playfab for my mmo and it dose not work with godot as since it is proprietary it can't be officially released under the open softwear lices that is needed to relice it for godot

[modern wadi]

not likely as the ceo wanted to charge 1 dollar to reload your gun in battlefiled

[sweet minnow]

From recent leaks, fron will on twitter, there will come good changes later this day.
Can't promise anything but his cryptic message is interpertrated by some as:
There is supposed to be no splash screen anymore
There is supposed to be a rev share
This changes are supposed to be only 2024 onwards

Notice the supposed to be, these are not official news, I want to make this very clear. These are just interpretations of a movie list will posted

[sweet minnow]

To his defense, he didn't want to do it he just said you aren't that price sensitive at that point and he is right

Actually doing this would be wrong tho

[native pendant]

I'm probably the only one who doesn't care if I have a splash screen or not.

[signal frost]

they should've just done the rev share thing from the beginning and this wouldn't have gotten this bad

[native pendant]

Just want rev share

[modern wadi]

then dont get popular dont make 200k dont let 200k downlods happenm dont make a living on your own games you do you

[native pendant]

https://twitter.com/willgoldstone/status/1705115457664036996?s=19

[signal frost]

I want a splash screen but without the unity logo, but I assume I'll have to script that or smth, like a video being played b4 the main menu

[native pendant]

What's that got to do with making a living from a splash screen lmao

[sweet minnow]

I know I still want to distance myself from the interpretations, because well they are interpretations and not news. This is a trick in language to talk about stuff you have just heard and isn't confirmed yet

[upper heart]

Can you help me motivate and request a commission XD

[modern wadi]

they say 90% of people will not be affected by this recent change because more then half of the 90% are making bad games in the free plan and because of this most people that see the unity logo when a game starts up see it as "this is a bad game" so removing the unity logo keeps the player guessing what engine was used to make a game and more likly to keep playing

[native pendant]

Yeah the splash screen rarely impacts if a gamer will play. Or very little care. Gamers judge on a game not a splash screen

[signal frost]

pretty sure people don't give a flip on the engine the game was made so long the game is good

[upper heart]

Khm khm a good example is ultrakill

[native pendant]

Agreed

[modern wadi]

like half of the indy game s i play have modes to remove the splash screenms in game

[scarlet heath]

Agreed

[native pendant]

That doesn't mean gamers care though. But the devs lmao

[azure stone]

it's not a stupid workflow - but it is different and takes commitment to learn, just like you committed to learning Unity before. I really enjoyed learning it last year (on my terms, not forced like it kinda is now...).

[nocturne crow]

Good engine will decrease your time and ease the development and maintenance though. Player community get fast update or bug fix is precious

[cedar tree]

Workflow is stupid. Example: 3 Rigs, need raytargeting. Animationsstack = 1000 = 3000 Animations at the end.

[azure stone]

The workflow isn't stupid, if it was, do you really think so many AAA titles are made with it?

[uncut quarry]

yeah it's sad that so many low quality asset flips exist that unity (even before this change) was known as a bad engine

[native vortex]

he meant the consumer

[azure stone]

but it IS different and it requires effort, and because it's different, you might think it's stupid. But you're wrong. 🙂

[modern wadi]

all i know is the creators of genshin are now hiring for programmers and devs to help make their own engine or they just lost a bunch of people

[slate hill]

For those with potato pc who want to run UE5 here's a video for you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8FoKrEfRQU

[craggy rivet]

mihoyo are hiring engineers to do what they've always done: adapting Unity and Unreal to their specific needs

[modern wadi]

it is not that the engine is bad it is the fact that somany people are trying to chas in on things that are popular but they have very little skill and and their idea making skill is non existant

[native vortex]

genshin wants to make their own engine? with what, 10 employees?

[modern wadi]

i could not tell from their job postings witch one of my statments was true

[uncut quarry]

jokes aside, how many employees are over there at hoyoverse?

[native vortex]

i reckon more than 2

[modern wadi]

no the latest pic i saw was they were hiwering for like 40+ positions

[charred pelican]

I want to disagree with this statement, but one of a review of my game says "Despite being made with Unity, the game is surprisingly good"... I dont know how to react to that

[slate hill]

they are hiring 39 engine programmers.... wonder what they are up to /whistles/

[native vortex]

why would genshin spend so much money to make their own engine

[craggy rivet]

It's literally in the job descriptions people were posting here

[modern wadi]

unity has made it to easy to become and asset flip video game dev because of the amount of youtube videos on unity. this is why when they see the unity logo as a splash screen it means bad asset flip game. but on the other hand a lot of theses asset flip games do try to work and make for a fun hour seeing what you can get into playing their jank

[bitter tinsel]

any news?

[modern wadi]

https://twitter.com/willgoldstone/status/1705115457664036996

[bitter tinsel]

is there gonna be a custom license for unity like unreal has (without the fee or smth) or is there any already

[modern wadi]

they are waiting for west coast people to wake up

[bitter tinsel]

hooray!!!!

[craggy rivet]

Yeah, I probably won't be around much by the time anything goes out since I've got evening plans, but I'll probably be hovering around over the weekend

[slate hill]

are you one of those who isn't in the loop?

[craggy rivet]

I'm very much in the loop and very much not breaking confidentiality haha

[slate hill]

not waiting to hear the news like the rest of us peasants 😦

[bitter tinsel]

it will be a W if they make a royalty from revenue like unreal

[slate hill]

honestly i think unity is triple dipping... its a bit much

first you charge for seat... then you charge for installs... and since you don't provide everything in your "Package" we need to buy assets to fill in the gaps your engine doesn't provide.

Unreal Buys Megascans... All hail free environment assets for EVERYONE. Unity buys Speedtree... "cricket sounds"

[hexed geyser]

Now Mihoyo have many office locations, which only to pay fee is the CEO. The CEO buys the fee per install.

The revenue Genshin Impact are so big they will pay a fee every game install.

[placid moss]

for genshin impact ok and the next game? 😄 its not more unity engine this will happen to many other projects so what unity won? a few years grab money them no one use it

[rugged flume]

You can do it, or else... *Loads shotgun*

[light cipher]

Levitation detected.

[bitter tinsel]

Can someone please explain what the situation is for video/film creators. What kind of license they need and whether they need to pay any royalties for using Unity?

[surreal basin]

20cents per viewed frame starting 2025

[scarlet heath]

I think you guys aren't affected with the Runtime thing.

[rain ibex]

Do you earn Blender assets you make when you export them to Unreal Engine 5, policies?

I read Unreal Engine 5's license terms, it seems they claim everything? Or am I wrong about the Blender assets you make.

[bitter tinsel]

Yes of course, but what is the current situation? What kind of license must I subscribe to if I wish to start making 3D videos, and what royalties do I owe, if any?

[upper heart]

Thats not motivation for me 😦

Tbh id rather be shot 2ith a shotgun than do something .thats the problem, i just cant get any motivation

[slim dock]

I will be here

[slate hill]

you are not distributing a runtime .... so you dont have any royalties of any kind... for both unity and unreal. you make videos.... not runtime content

[sweet minnow]

I have heard a good take on that:
First it says to the creators "calm down you aren't even relevant enough to pay our fees"
Second if you do eventually reach it you are greated with a slap in their face
Third gamedevs are dreamers, many want to reach these goals, not all will, but the still like to dream, saying this will push these dreamers to another engine

[bitter tinsel]

Ok but what if you do livestreams that depend on running the Unity engine with my scripts?

[signal frost]

but good news are good news right?

[upper heart]

Idk probably not

[dusk veldt]

I think you may in the future be egilble for Unity Industry, which is the non gaming license. But I personally don't know the terms for that package.

[slate hill]

I'm not a unity sales rep... so contact someone at unity sales probably.

[rain ibex]

Blender assets are ours, but if exported to Unreal Engine 5, do I still own them?

[signal frost]

yes

you own your assets, you don't own the engine

[sweet minnow]

You mean dev streams? This will depend if you are doing dev streams in general on different project this is company revenue and will not count. Only for one game? I would coznt this as game revenue which in turn will count
I'm not a lawyer tho, so no legal advice

[signal frost]

if you livestream playing a video game you don't need to pay royalty to the game creator so It's unlikely that you'll have to pay anything

[timid quest]

still nothing?

[slate hill]

tbh all the unity sales reps i know... are only interested in selling pro licences to bigger companies... you use case is probably so small they won't even be bothered with it.

[sweet minnow]

Later this day confirmed

[signal frost]

in b4 unity counted company revenue, which would be everything from livestreams to videos to the actual game as far as I know, but now everything is game based so outside activities shouldn't be charged anymore I think

[timid quest]

oh wow really when did they say that?

[slate hill]

will goldstone's twitter. https://twitter.com/willgoldstone/status/1705115457664036996

[signal frost]

my patience is near it's end

[timid quest]

i was afraid they'll skip the whole weekend in silence, and many people will just use thier weekend to learn another engine

[bitter tinsel]

Not necessarily Dev Streams. But there's also stuff like live shows where you can sync Unity graphics with your own live-coded music.

[sweet minnow]

A few unity people in chat and will goldstone
Leaks are:
No splash screen
Rev cap
2024+

[slate hill]

just use unreal for that... they have unreal live link and a bunch of stuff for live 3d events

[timid quest]

he says good news, should i trust this? i don't want to get my hopes up only to be crushed again

[sweet minnow]

I would say this is development streams on general topics, so probably comapny revenue and not affected by this new policy
The policy count 200k game revenue last 12months

[signal frost]

I'd say go for a walk and come back in 5-6 hours

[slate hill]

i also read somewhere they are not charging for that use case.

[timid quest]

NO UNITY LOGO????

[slate hill]

i believe he means the "news announcement" was his good news.

[sweet minnow]

Again leaks interpreted from a bunch of movie titles will posted on twitter

[slate hill]

does not mean the news will actually be any good for anyone 😛

[summer hill]

WOOAAAH hold on it took them just few days to come up with new pricing its probably shitty

[scarlet heath]

damn unity is actually taking their time

[sweet minnow]

No, what he has been hinting is his good news. Good news coming today, said by multiple people actually. The closest details we have are wills movies

[dusk crane]

if the fee is still in place, it’s not going to be good news

[timid quest]

lololol this is wishful thinking

[slate hill]

i really doubt the news will be that well recieved. anything is better than the first TOS change... but...

[warm heron]

two steps forward
one back
classic

[scarlet heath]

nah, it's
2 steps forward,
3 steps back

[slate hill]

every leak hints that they will not remove the "per install" fee.

[sweet minnow]

I think it is pretty reasonable based on how he posted the titles and that he even said he posted something cryptic. Still wanted to make this very clear, rhat this is a bunch of movies he posted. I like things being in context and I don't want to spread false news

[dusk crane]

personally I’m quite annoyed by communication as a whole: first it was about confusion, then confusion and angst and now it’s cryptic messaging and hyping up ”good” news

[warm heron]

nah
i ment from unity perspective
steps toward taking more money

[sweet minnow]

I mean he is not allowed to say anything more. In most office jobs you sign that you don't tell anyone about company secrets in your cobtract
In addition to that they will have needed to sign an nda
So if he wants to keep his job, this is actually allready pushing it hard
I wouldn't have done that if I were him

That is why asking all unity people here is pointless, they are not allowed

[light cipher]

Any news is better than radio silence. I'd be happy with "We're making progress, there are big changes coming, we want to get this right."

[signal frost]

yeah radioactive is better than radio silence

get it?

[rain ibex]

they keep silence until 1/1/2024?

[sweet minnow]

No thwre will be news this evening come back in around 5-6hours

[placid moss]

what will come up? yea guys we dont start it on 1.1.24 we will start it 25

[sweet minnow]

@placid moss

[frank iron]

make sense, he do not want to lost a job to entertain poster on discord

[placid moss]

aha so we dont step back we offer you no slash screen 😄 haha make my day

[timid quest]

well, i'll wait

[sweet minnow]

Yea and spelling out a statement with movies "you want to watch" is pushing it hard allready Imo
All we can do is wait

[sweet minnow]

If you want a u turn you can go, won't happen and if it were happen this whole thing would restart all over. They need to make money and there is nothing wrong with it, as long as it is transparent and predictable. This move was not. A capped rev share fixes all problem with install fees and this would be a very reasonable model

[placid moss]

i dont care i dont need unity ^^

[signal frost]

bruh why are you here then

[warm heron]

for drama ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[hybrid anchor]

Any updates?

[frank iron]

I m enjoying everyone come here and announce his personal goal.

[frank iron]

come back in another 3 days, weekend is coming. I pretty sure they do not want announce anything while everyone is enjoying weekend

[wide cradle]

Actually... we had some reasons to think something will be announced today

[hybrid anchor]

Yeah probably

[frank iron]

@hybrid anchor enjoy your weekend.

[hybrid anchor]

Thanks! You too :)

[rain ibex]

Apart from Audacity, what sound softwares which are free are available for the current time?

and Ardour?

[rigid moon]

reaper

[wary sedge]

Hasn't Audacity's reputation been underminded recently because it had odd botnet style tracking software included in it?

Or am I just remembering that from some strange fever dream. It sounds weird now I ask it out loud.

[rain ibex]

oh i dont know about that im outdated person, oh okay

[wary sedge]

Here you go, I googled it:
"Audio-edit software Audacity has denied accusations its new privacy policy has transformed it into "possible spyware". The open-source free tool, with 100 million users worldwide, is popular with podcast and music editors."

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjHiPqrjb6BAxXH0aQKHUfPDccQFnoECBEQAw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.com%2Fnews%2Ftechnology-57721967%23%3A~%3Atext%3DAudio%252Dedit%2520software%2520Audacity%2520has%2Cwith%2520podcast%2520and%2520music%2520editors.&usg=AOvVaw1JS6FTNxLjowr5Z3EJjaxN&opi=89978449

[wary sedge]

I've seen people here using this, but I don't know if it is any good or not compared to Audacity : https://www.ocenaudio.com

[placid moss]

when the make another stupid news today them weekend = shitstorm weekend 😄

[bitter tinsel]

me waiting for western us to wake up be like

[wide cradle]

🫂

[near crane]

Still no news i guess

[wide cradle]

Later today

[dusk crane]

I’m pretty sure no one is against making money or rev share. Install fees as a concept just doesn’t make sense for the most and are not reasonable - it’s an unknown variable you can’t predict or count for. I mean let’s introduce a fee for loading a file next!

(and in practice is just trying to force f2p developers to switch to use levelplay)

[bronze magnet]

I heard a theory that it being a fee is important legally since the previous language of the TOS don’t permit a retroactive rev share agreement.

It says fees can be changed at any time. And here we are. Unity may want to make sure it can make more money from the hits that are already out there.

Not sure if the theory is true but it’s an interesting take. It would explain it if the rumors are true about Unity pending (and alleged at this point) changes.

[rain ibex]

was busy; what about now tho

[scarlet cradle]

So the founder himself of Unity is in cahoots with the former ea ceo?

[tough zenith]

The only reason i am not switching is because i use bolt

[bronze magnet]

What does it mean to be in cahoots with someone? E.g. how would I know I have that kind of relationship with someone?

[dusk crane]

so they can’t retroactively add rev share but can random fees based on random metrics?

[sweet minnow]

Not saying anything against that, I agree with that

[wary sedge]

I actually don't know. I just had in that back my of mind that something strange had happened to Audacity. I think they were bought by a company, and then that company started putting suspiciouis tracking stuff in there, and some anti-malware software started identifying Audacity as a potential threat.

[wary sedge]

Being in cahoots is like a conspiracy. You are are conspiring with the person you are in cahoots with.

[rain ibex]

thx for the details

[upper heart]

Btw i think that there are going to be companies that will turn unity projects to unreal or godot projects

[rigid moon]

dont need to think, thats fact

[scarlet cradle]

I checked, and the unity founder's post was real.

Suspect of the guy for now.

[upper heart]

If they do it ofc

[tame idol]

I don’t understand, am I will not be able to upload game or build it? OR WHAT?

[nocturne crow]

unifree

[upper heart]

Whats that? Nvm but its not perfect

[nocturne crow]

It just first step today

[wary sedge]

Do you mean, what are the pricing changes when you upload your game?

[plush coyote]

Prediction: Unity free forever but Unity Ads integration is mandatory. Just kidding 😛

[tame idol]

Yeah, I’m new to unity and I don’t even know what does it mean, if I’m not gonna be able to build and share games I more like to change engine

[nocturne crow]

first unity ads > made by unity

[bronze magnet]

That’s the idea

[upper heart]

You dont need to pay for that, if your revenue and downloads meet 200,000 then there will be a fee that will change depending on how many people downloaded the game, but after earning that much you can just buy unity pro version and raise the revenue and download threshold to 1,000,000

[bronze magnet]

Can we be in cahoots together? I’m working to master my craft of game dev and would love someone to conspire with. I also want to tell my friends that I’m in cahoots with one someone 😈

[upper heart]

So free games arwnt affected

[tame idol]

Okay then, I was thinking what something big is changed cuz even terraria did-, you know ig…

[open epoch]

uuh guys... idk how to put it or where to ask..but considering all the recent drama around unity pricing,..should i start learning godot?

[tacit tusk]

yes

[open epoch]

💀 plain and straight away answer🥶

like..jus a week before i did setup ma pc for unity and the .net support and script editors....feels like idk i'm confused

is godot good with 3d ?....like i hav a ton of similar comparative questions....fyi i'm a 3d game asset artist

[forest crown]

For 3d you might wanna look into Unreal

[cerulean lintel]

if you don't mean the revenue threshold you wont pay a penny. so free games arent effected but freemium games could be.

[tacit tusk]

just switch engine, unity asset store sales will plummit

[open epoch]

so far i hav modelled 3d objects for game engines like unity and unreal...and recently i wanted to learn one of them

🥶 and started with unity and u know THE PRICING DRAMA happened

[open epoch]

my broken pc rig

[cerulean lintel]

unreal runs okay with small projects from memory.

ue4 that is.

[icy roost]

UE5 has a lot of underlying performance issues

[silent raptor]

I personally think taking your chances against the greedy corps and learning unity is better.
I just found unity itself to be such a great program. C# is a fantastic language as well.
I still can't believe it's so easy to animate in unity compared to Blender considering Blender is an animation program

[warm cloak]

Yeah, generally speaking, 3D designers are going over to Unreal and 2D designers are going to Godot. While both have the alternate capability, they shine in those particular dimensions.

[forest crown]

Godot can also do 3d projects, but Unreal is much more advanced when it comes to 3d. If you don't have a good computer, I would recommend Godot

[open epoch]

animation as in..rigging?

[silent raptor]

Besides, you can't keep flip flopping cause of fear. Stick to what you want to learn rather than fear guide you.
I'll have to fight the greedy businessmen when they actually attack me.
Before that I just learn unity cause I want to and they haven't been petty enough to completely destroy free version of unity...yet.

[open epoch]

😭 i jus wanna learn a fairly good engine that adds up more value to my current career

[agile spruce]

Godot has very little jobs as a career, I don't think I've actually seen a job posting for developers using it.

[silent raptor]

not exactly rigging but generally panning over and doing keyframes felt a lot easier compared to Blender.

[icy roost]

Godot has never been used in Commercial games, its an overall very weak tool.

[placid moss]

how many jobs got unity posted 2010?

[agile spruce]

Unity a hold on job opportunities for sure. A lot of it is outside of games though.

This many 🖐️