archived-pricing-updates-talk

[tacit tusk]

probably some kind of rootkit in the unity runtime

[plucky ivy]

its apparently a very trusted journalist

[bitter tinsel]

I love spyware :D

[plucky ivy]

the leak says its gonna be self-reported tho

[bitter tinsel]

I would not get my hopes up, but personally Unity has lost all my trust and I'm not coming back even if they fully reverse the fees.

[plucky ivy]

its impossible to track installs properly anyways

[tacit tusk]

unity can do it, trust them bro

[mortal stratus]

Your mistake was trusting any corporation in the first place.

[bitter tinsel]

Exactly, but why would they care? If there are more installs, even if they aren't legit, they still make Unity more money.

[zenith sky]

they might switch it to sales but we don't know but that would be the logical thing to do(unity's decisions aren't logical but still)

[plucky ivy]

its not about trust tho. you cant trust unreal either. i just use the game engine and thats all.

[bitter tinsel]

Yeah ik, but nobody could have predicted that they would try to pull something like this.

[bitter tinsel]

Who said I use Unreal? I'm not using it for the same reason. It's Godot time babyyy.

[zenith sky]

godot is open-source so they would not be able to do this

[zenith echo]

That’s not “installs”

[bitter tinsel]

Any popular FOSS project (which Godot is), if the foundation/org behind it goes down it gets forked and revived, that's the biggest benefit to FOSS stuff.

[plucky ivy]

technically godot can be bought out and terms of service changed so it can happen

[bitter tinsel]

It can't be bought out? Even if it could it can be forked lol.

[indigo sluice]

godot in most areas are not even a competitor to unity & unreal
they have a much smaller feature set

[echo thunder]

How can it bought out

[plucky ivy]

thats what they likely meant tho with their terrible communication. they only care about the mobile games with ads

[bitter tinsel]

Not really, Godot's probs the best 2D engine and the 3D is close to Unity. And you can find assets and shaders and similar things for completely free, which is actually a bonus.

[willow crypt]

Easy just make the argument that any game that has a drop table it's a gambling game boom get out the fees

[plucky ivy]

new ceo of godot: forking is now illegal. if you publish a godot game you need to pay us 20k dollars, no questions asked.

[bitter tinsel]

There is no CEO lol, are people really this stupid and don't understand the meaning of "open source" when it's literally in the name?

[plucky ivy]

im just saying that theres a non zero possibility of it being bought and changing into closed source. im not saying its gonna happen

[bitter tinsel]

If it does (and it basically can't), people will just fork it and it becomes another project lol.

[zenith echo]

In a court of law, when they send an audit out, the old “what they likely meant” argument won’t work for you.

Install has a definition. Sale has a definition. They are not the same.

And in a contractual/business setting, the terminology matters.

[wary sedge]

The last few days, I’ve convinced myself the future is one where you can export your game projects from one engine ( and to some degree of success) import it into a new engine there will a somewhat independent body to maintain the standard ( similar to say, Kronos group, or the new Appl/Pixar scene description format)
Game engines won’t be forced to provide export capabilities, but people will be suitably wary of the ones that don’t.
The top players, Unreal for example, will proud to offer an export because they trust their performance and tools will make anyone switching come back to them quickly.

[plucky ivy]

thats probably why they're saying people are "confused". hopefully they'll clear it up with their upcoming announcement. so we can learn how we're supposed to track installs or if its just fine to report sales count

[indigo sluice]

there are lots more that go into building a game than just the engine, for example godot doesn't really have first party SDKs for things like analytics, crash reporting, logging, etc
no paid support is also a deal breaker for me because if something doesn't work and the team can't figure out we need someone from the engine to talk with
in a lot of cases free is not a benefit for us because we would rather pay for the service/asset if it comes with support

for example paying for odin support even though there are free repos on github to do inspector/serialization customization

[primal sand]

is unity still dead or are there any new infos about license?

[zenith echo]

Yeah, I’m hoping they are taking so long to announce anything because they are working really hard to not screw up again, and not because they’re just in an internal struggle of Not Dumb vs The Board and CEO.

[bitter tinsel]

If something doesn't work you can fix it, easy.

[fair vigil]

What

[plucky ivy]

the leak did say they're talking things through with partners and whatnot so it seems they're doing work instead of just waiting

[plucky ivy]

no and no (unless you havent seen the credible leak yet which basically says you start paying after 1 mil and up to 4% of your revenue)

[fair vigil]

I sent that like 2 hours ago

[indigo sluice]

For my hobby projects I totally agree, and I love to tinker around with open source assets and tools too
My previous comment was more for my business, it's cheaper to pay for support than to fix things ourselves most of the time. We are using tools to build games, not building tools to make games

[zenith echo]

Unfortunately that leak still included the “install” terminology, and that’s just a complete non-starter for pretty much everyone who is still holding out an olive branch.

[bitter tinsel]

Yeah but if you pay a corp to fix it they will still take time, just like if you report the issue some contributor will fix.

[elder sleet]

most likely the CEO and the dude from ironsource would be my guess if the report is true

[plucky ivy]

i mean even if you dont wanna deal with the install thing just pay 4% then. its still less than unreal's 5%

[zenith echo]

We aren’t dumb. We understand that. And that’s entirely not the point. 🙃

[elder sleet]

if you fall in t hat category then you still have to pay the 2k per seat per year on top of that if the report is true

[plucky ivy]

only on the year where you make more than 200k tho right?

[wary sedge]

Issue for Unity though, is how many developers will think that using Unreal ( which Unity are pricing themselves lower than, so in a way presenting themselves as inferioir ) will result in an 25% increase in sales.

Its easy to believe that if you put the same amount of work into developiong your game, but use the better more expensive engine, you could easilly sell 25% more copies.

[elder sleet]

well if the report is true then the threshold may change but far as i know yea. What i do not like is how all over the place is there should be never any confusion it should be a simple this way, how you are going to get charged and clear billing

[somber anvil]

you deserve what's happening

[plucky ivy]

im just saying what the leak said dude, didnt say i love the changes. why are you so hostile

[elder sleet]

the install fee thing left to many unclear billing nightmare for everyone

[primal sand]

i have seen the "leak" but was hoping they would put out something that is more official, simpler and without any mentioning of counting installs at all

[elder sleet]

at least everyone that falls above the threshold i mean

[bitter tinsel]

My guy actually belives that leak = official announcement

[somber anvil]

no, you're trying your best to defend what they're doing, and you're completely missing the point, its really not about the fee's

[plucky ivy]

im not defending it, i'd rather they rolled everything back and this never happened in the first place.

[elder sleet]

lol yea leak does not equal to announcement. it is not official until it becomes official lol

[somber anvil]

"its not about trust tho. you cant trust unreal either. i just use the game engine and thats all."

it IS about trust my dude

will you continue to "just use the engine" after they go bankrupt due to bad decisions? no xD

[elder sleet]

lol i am installing .net for work right now, do microsoft get to charge our devs 20 cents? sorry could not resist

[wary sedge]

Generally though, when there are lots of people involved, like a workforce of, what, 7000 is it? Then the way things play out is most information is normally out in the wild before the official announcements happen.

If the White House can't control information, with all their resources, then I'm not expected Ritticelo to be any better.

[plucky ivy]

yes cause it doesnt affect me. i just like the engine. dont care about the company. let them go bankrupt and get bought out by microsoft, its probably for the best

[mortal stratus]

IDK feels really cringe to act like business decisions are some kind of moral dilemma and that this is some kind of righteous cause. Just typical internet stuff.

[odd crystal]

I still think the main issue regardless of backpeddling or whatever they're going to do is lost of trust. This isn't the first time Unity has had community backlash and I doubt it will be the last. 4% or 5% is very minor in the grand scheme of things. Unity already has a negative stigma in the gaming community, which is why devs paid for the removal of the splash screen. I look at engines as tools and yes years of investment makes it hard to move out but one has to consider the bigger picture here.

[bitter tinsel]

My guy. Unity is not FOSS. If the company goes under the engine goes too.

[elder sleet]

agreed but even with that things can change so this is why we cannot take it serious or make choices based off that

[plucky ivy]

they wont let people publish games with unity anymore if they go bankrupt?

[somber anvil]

if you think it doesnt affect you, then it's really well deserved, it affects every unity user on the planet

[wary sedge]

Yes.

Unless they explain that the TOS won't be changed retrospectively again, then I can't see any way for most developers to trust them.

I mean, they may stick with Unity of course, but it won't be because they are trusting Ritticeilo, it will be be because they are making a gamble they think is worthwile.

[bitter tinsel]

The engine will loose support, you won't even be able to download it, publishing will also probs stop being a thing (unless you go trough a publisher) because the engine will not be maintained.

[plucky ivy]

it literally doesnt. i dont have unity shares or anything. go back to the unreal discord if you think unity users deserve to go bankrupt or something

[bitter tinsel]

Not all unity users do, but you do lol.

[light cipher]

The engine will find a buyer, but who knows what state it'll end up in.

[plucky ivy]

why are u coming on the unity discord to say "LOL UNITY IS DYING AND YOU DESERVE IT!"

[wary sedge]

I agree and disagree.
I think either extreme would be odd.

If I said I will take any random supposed leak and base serious decisions on that. Then that would be most peculiar.

But likewise, if I want to ignore every bit of information until an official announce,ent is made, then would also be a bit odd and I'd potentially miss getting an idea of where things are heading.

[somber anvil]

because there are fucking retards defending their decision thinking it won't affect them

[cunning gorge]

I'll never understand that

[bitter tinsel]

I can only see Meta buying it, due to Unity being the go-to for VR

[vast seal]

Unity Editor's required internet connection would fail if there was nobody to keep the servers up, effectively preventing Unity use very quickly after some hypothetical situation where the company is completely gone.

[grizzled dawn]

Mfs from other engines are coming here to shit on Unity.

[bitter tinsel]

Because you're an absolute braindead idiot (no offense)

[visual crypt]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/684324252786360513/1154474436049772614/Screenshot_20230921_184838_com.brave.browser.jpg

[bitter tinsel]

More money is justified thats within their right the way they went about it thats a whipe nother thing

[plucky ivy]

i havent seen anybody defend it, cause it is literally no benefit to anyone. tell me one unity user that benefits from these changes. it's only the unreal and godot users who are benefitting by growing their userbase and defending what unity did cause they want unity to die

[ionic yoke]

I keep thinking about this decision but i dont get it, why now ?? i feel like unity was in a very good spot lately with dots becoming production ready and all the new 2023 stuff ! why ??!

[plucky ivy]

can we get a moderator in here to ban this guy

[grizzled dawn]

Unity was in loss from a long time plus they needed to kill Applovin.

[fair vigil]

They said no offense so it's all good

[wary sedge]

Can admin mute this guy for a bit Give him some time to think and stop harrassing people.

[bitter tinsel]

Actually went on an alt after I said 1 thing lol

[ionic yoke]

Well that didnt work out well did it lol

[wary sedge]

What's alt ?

[near crane]

Any news or leaks yet, I'm gonna assume not

[grizzled dawn]

No news.

[thorny gazelle]

IT WILL BE PINNED

[autumn niche]

no reason to attack people directly, yes everyone is upset and everyone knows that

[fair vigil]

Unity silence

[elder sleet]

let me ask you this, would you bank a most serious business decision on a news article before a an official decision was announced. If you did and then they change course 180 dagrees then what?

[indigo sluice]

I don't think it's a big deal. Sure it may affect our studio but if the engine becomes bad we will switch to another tool
Or if it becomes to expensive and doesn't make sense we will reevaluate where to spend our money on tools

[bitter tinsel]

Nothing so far

[fair vigil]

Don't listen to the article
Idk why it's even pinned when it's literally just a rumor

[bitter tinsel]

Mods defending Unity ig

[ionic yoke]

just in case, gamedev tv have some discounts on their UE courses 😂

[odd crystal]

The difference between a "rumor" and truth is just a few months.

[fair vigil]

They aren't
I've met them

Well some

[plucky ivy]

<@&502884371011731486> is this allowed

[wary sedge]

No you are right , I probably wouldn't.

But also, I think that business decisions are mostly about deciding your first course of action, then consider extra options if the world doesn't play the way you expect it will.

So , mentally pretending the leak is what will happen, does mean we can prepare fully for what that means, and IF it does become official, then 0 seconds is required on decided how to react, because that possiblity has already been fully explored.

[near crane]

At this rate I'll be a master of another engine before unity updates us

[fair vigil]

Most of them don't like it but aren't really joining the conversation for the sake of professionalism. Stirring the pot wouldn't be the best choice of action in this moment.

[elder sleet]

oh man the software i am installing has so many dependancies from other sdk and software companies can you imagine if each one started charging per install? lol if this is allowed from 1 company it becomes a slippery slope

[grizzled dawn]

Just go make your own engine. Won't ever have to live in fear that somebody might fuck up your engine one day lmao

[bitter tinsel]

How many alts do you have lmfaoo (oh wait, same acc)

Your life must be real sad if you you're so focused about me instead of discussing the issue which this channel is about.

[fair vigil]

I can't tell if this is a joke

[grizzled dawn]

Half joke

[fair vigil]

Some people said they're going to try and I hope the best for them cuz I don't have the sanity nor time to make an entirely new engine and then make a game on it

[near crane]

No need, Godot seem powerful enough tbh

[wary sedge]

Just make sure you code it in machine code though. Otherwise those assembler authors could change their TOS and start charging you per install.

[autumn niche]

that is scary i have broken many things. but in reality making a purpose built engine is not that hard. the hard part is maintaining it with platform support

[grizzled dawn]

Lmfao

[agile spruce]

@bitter tinsel We don't need the insults, if you're not here for anything else, please leave.

[fair vigil]

I have 0 friends and no team so it's just better for me to just use another existing engine

I want unity to succeed
I just don't like the changes being made

[bitter tinsel]

That's probs the worst option, you can just fork godot and change things, but making your own engine is not really viable for basically everyone

[somber anvil]

i mean, they are taking so long that i've started my own engine and it already has a fully working ECS, movement, physics, drawing, animation, so on and so on, lol

[wary sedge]

Why don't you just apologise for the childish insults, say you won't do it again, and maybe he'll just continue the conversation with you.

[elder sleet]

Also news is bias in most cases, and sometimes flame the fire to add more fuel, etc.... this is why for things like this just waiting for the official statement and response from a company is the best course of action. news can give you heads up but, always use cautions when just relying on specific news source for sole information

[tranquil dune]

wassup guys

[near crane]

Real.

[bitter tinsel]

I don't care about him? He's a random stranger who's spouting nonsense lol.

[tacit tusk]

unity pissed off some indies : https://unitedgamedevs.com/

[tranquil dune]

yes i know about it

[wary sedge]

I think I agree with you. Actually, I'm experiencing that weird phenomena now that I only ever fall into on online chat, where I'm not even 100% sure why I disagreed in the first place, lol, x

[bitter tinsel]

Not some, lots. @FuckedByUnity

[tranquil dune]

it's probably like 10000 studios/individuals at this point lol

[fair vigil]

Waiting is annoying when every time we wait they go and change another thing

[plucky ivy]

all i said was that based on the leak, its basically gonna be like unreal but with 4% instead of 5%. and you attacked me because you disagree with these changes? well so do i, its not my fault we now have to pay a fee

[wary sedge]

You can still be polite to people you don't care about. And then it makes reading the other conversations that are happening in parallel easier to read. You care about me right?

Don't you?

you do right?

Please say you care!

=^..^=

[autumn niche]

well the terms are ultra bad for literally all succesful indies that have long tails on there projects, and for literally 100% of hyper casual and mobile f2p

[elder sleet]

its because this is something we do not want to see happen, we are all passionate about these tools and technology we use. We just want to find good reasons to have hope things will turn for the better and that news was a light becon of that but, we just need to be caution and real

[fair vigil]

I'm not saying you're wrong. You're entirely correct. But I hope this back and forth doesn't go on for much longer.

[bitter tinsel]

They're also bad for indies that want to make it big

[tranquil dune]

did you guys know the people at AppLovin are making a tool to help convert unity code to other game engines, the project is called UniFree on Github, they also have a discord server.

[elder sleet]

I agree but at the moment there is no other option, just sad how unity has done something so disruptive in the industry and is radio silence from the top but we will see what happens

[bitter tinsel]

Yeah, also made a blog post lol

[tranquil dune]

nice

[autumn niche]

not to found mean, but you don't generally just make it big. even the most sucessful indies have often came from people with industry experience

[honest zenith]

im switching to unreal lol

[fair vigil]

I don't know what was worse

The copy and paste responses or the silence

[elder sleet]

yea that hs been circulating around the interwebs for the past day or 2

[bitter tinsel]

They can do the same thing but 👍

[wary sedge]

That's awesome, this is 100% what I want.

I'd love to see Unreal, Godot AND Unity all start donating money to such a tool.

Not just Unity -> Other Engines, but a common standard for interchange

[near crane]

looks at Stardew Valley

[honest zenith]

ik but im gonna risk it, godot is to much for me

[fair vigil]

I want to go to unreal since it's really the only other engine with the capabilities I was requesting but my computer immediately crashes when I try to open it so I'm sorta just gonna be waiting for a bit

[bitter tinsel]

Too much?

[tranquil dune]

unity donating after what's been happening? Highly unlikely considering the ceo is a douche and greedy

[honest zenith]

idk i tried importing my project in godot and teh scripting is kinda wierd for me

[tranquil dune]

but maybe the peopl who quit unity might, i can see that happening

[bitter tinsel]

Especially since he was too greedy for EA

[near crane]

I mean, he even sees charity organizations using unity as not charities so they ain't an exception after all..

[wary sedge]

Without actual numbers to back it up. I'm on the fence on this, anecodotally I can think of a lot of people I know who did make it big without industry experience, and also lots that, as you say, came from industry to the indie scene.

I don't think it can be as clear cut as you suggest though, not from my experience anyway.

[fair vigil]

Unity isn't gonna do that when it's essentially digging their own grave even further

[scarlet heath]

it'll be double weirder in Unreal as well

[bitter tinsel]

Just use C#

[tacit tusk]

the only charity that is allowed is John Riccitiello's yacht fund

[honest zenith]

idk godot has a ez vr system and unreal not for that unreal has a good render pipeline

[elder sleet]

according to the CEO they bleeding money so doubt we will see any donations from them anytime soon

[wary sedge]

Something similar has started happening with Social Networks now right? At least in the EU I think, but Facebook has to offer export tools for all your data.

And isn't Threads/Mastadon all based around this idea of being able to move your Social presence to a new network.

[honest zenith]

but i think i still try godot

[scarlet heath]

we just love the idea of our CEO buyin a new yacht every month

[fair vigil]

First act: Remove John

[tacit tusk]

he is saving up for a private jet

[bitter tinsel]

First act: Remove Ironsource
Second act: Remove John

[honest zenith]

i hope that unity is regreting thier mistake and revert it, i really hope...

[fair vigil]

The idea that he's continuing to be involved in company decisions is already a problem of trust for a lot of people

[bitter tinsel]

Seeing as their stock dropped by a decent amount in the last 5 days, they most likely are

[tranquil dune]

it's not weird to switch to other engines depending on the type of game the person is making. Hyper-Realistic graphics and triple-a level quality, Unreal Engine is definitely good.

Godot is great for 2D and 3D games with no worries of licensing/tos issues in the future because it's open-source and MIT (please don't ask how far Godot is capable of 3D because I haven't looked that much into it and other people can probably tell you)

[fair vigil]

They're definitely regretting it as they keep backtracking but idk if they intend to revert

[near crane]

this fr, people underestimate Godot 3D so much lol

[elder sleet]

[tranquil dune]

Third act: Keep their promises whenever working on features.

[fair vigil]

I intend to make a horror game so graphics is pretty important

[elder sleet]

unity and unreal is the best for those

[tranquil dune]

then unreal engine might be the best choice for you then, good luck

[fair vigil]

The sinking ship or the one that keeps crashing on launch

[vestal dune]

Counterpoint:
https://assetsio.reedpopcdn.com/faith_header_2.jpg

[honest zenith]

i hope bc unity is still my fav and i dont want to waste my time having to learn another engine

[bitter tinsel]

Depends, most trendy horror games rn are PS2 styled ones.

For which btw, Godot has an easy-to-use and C0 shader

[fair vigil]

I'm gonna have to save up for a new computer. It might be just better to change out everything instead of just the parts.

I've has it for like maybe 8 years? No maintenance so it's rough

[tranquil dune]

you can get pretty far with godot, just head over to the godot subreddit, i heard it has pretty good 3d capabilities if you just take your time. trust me. @fair vigil

[wary sedge]

I think they will 100% revert.

Because like any business, this change will have been shaped and debated for many a top level meeting. And during that process a number of different ideas will have been considered.

Its not that they have to invent a whole new proposal, they will already have 2 or 3 other proposals that they were considering internally. And each of those proposals would have had people for and against them.

So they are only deciding whch of the other ideas to fall back to.

[upper heart]

So so far, how do you guys feel about the tax thingy?

[bitter tinsel]

They won't. If you think that you're delusional.

They might backtrack a bit but they won't revert.

[elder sleet]

well performence is on the dev on most situations there is plenty of games made with unity and unreal that runs just fine

[tacit tusk]

its great!

[upper heart]

wdym? i dont see anything good about it.

[azure stone]

I can launch unreal on my old onboard gfx amd laptop, what kind of toaster are you running over there?!

[fair vigil]

Faith is good but I'm mostly a 3d dev so 2d is a bit of a...

Idk the word
I don't know anything about it

[tacit tusk]

sorry, its great for godot / unreal

[near crane]

Godot is really good for 3D horror, especially Retro (again like PS2 era horror games)

[fair vigil]

Blank state?
Blank slate?
New territory?
Challenge?

I don't know the right word

[mortal stratus]

Tabula Rasa

[tranquil dune]

they won't, i have seen a greedy corporation to this day that has 100% revert a change. The most they'll likely do is change somethings around to make it appealing/less-worse.

[elder sleet]

not saying u cannot make those games on other engines just some of the really good ones out there is made with unreal or unity, outside of inside locked engines like AAA studio custom engines

[upper heart]

btw when it comes to godot did someone make maybe like a godot Unity version, so its like technically the same but a bit different because godot?

[fair vigil]

No I don't think that's it

[cerulean pawn]

https://twitter.com/devinthewater

[tranquil dune]

It's basically like, you'll still get slapped in the face by the same fish, but it's less hurtful this time.

[wary sedge]

How can I be delusional right now, when we don't know if what I am saying will happen or not?

I think the word means believing in something despite the facts. But unless I'm totally missing something here, and please explain it to me if I am, but there is still posiblity that Unity will revert and change their TOS again in the next few days to reply to the backlash that has hapened.

[bitter tinsel]

I go to business school, so I have a decent idea about how corps work, they've lost a lot, but if they fully revert they will loose everything.

[tranquil dune]

woooow!

[fair vigil]

We're all delusional

[azure stone]

There may be a theoretical possibility of it, but I think the likelihood is so minuscule, I'd be more likely to win the lottery. And I don't play the lottery.

[elder sleet]

you are more then welcome in making it yourself. Just fork godot and get started. Have fun and we will be glad to see how much you got done in 6 months

[cerulean pawn]

yeah godot's pretty awesome! just need to know the right thing u know, im still not there tho

[wary sedge]

I think fully reverting seems unlikely, unless they think lets put things back to where they were, and take 6 months to formulate the next big change.

Like an Undo button basically.

Afterall, nothing was going to come into place until January anyway. So if Ritticeilo has already been told internally he will be resinging soon, they may well just revert and keep things going on as normal until they get a new CEO in there.

[fair vigil]

Idk what's wrong with unreal cuz I can't read the report

No clue what it means

[tranquil dune]

i guess so. guys we shouldn't look down on an engine, if you study the inside-out of the godot engine, i think we can all make great games.

[bitter tinsel]

It's just just about the CEO, Ironsource is another problem, and the board too, the whole upper management is the problem lol.

[fair vigil]

Silence Godot shill

I will not have my heart broken again

[tranquil dune]

what happened to you lmao?

[upper heart]

bro, thats not the point. I literially started to work on my first steam game and im like halfway done, if i fricking have a chance to speak with the ceo i would fricking scold him man.

[near crane]

what happen, did you give up after looking at the GUI for 20 minutes?

[scarlet heath]

It's okay, we're here for you.

[fair vigil]

Nothing I'm just sad unity is falling apart

[elder sleet]

oh i agree lol

[wary sedge]

( Also, when you say 'I go to business school, so I have an decent idea about....' you are also kind of comparing yourself to me, and the implication being that I don't go to business school, and that I don't have a decent idea about it. I'm not sure if that's your intention or not, and its always hard to read tone-of-voice in online chat. But I'm assuning you aren't implying those things, because after all, we only just met. But I wanted to let you know anyway in case you didn't realise how it comes across )

[upper heart]

Also is he on this server 👁️👄👁️

[fair vigil]

I saw a picture and didn't like it because it wasn't unity and change is bad :(

[elder sleet]

who is on the server?

[upper heart]

the ceo

[tranquil dune]

bro i understand, but look at it this way, the people who invested their time in unity will still be around depending which path you take, you're not alone brother.

[near crane]

if he is, he is on an alt account spying, naturally (the ceo)

[elder sleet]

the ceo of unity?

[tranquil dune]

i am sure the ceo is on here probably

[upper heart]

omfg this slowmode is so bad, yeah the ceo of unity

[wary sedge]

For me personally, its all about the CEO, but I'm interested to know more about the Ironsource problem. They are an ad provider right? Like AppLoving, and Unity merged with them recently?

What's the problem with them, I genuiniely know nothing about this part of the story.

[fair vigil]

If John is reading this
I have words for you mister

Resign

[tranquil dune]

AppLovin wanted to merge with unity, but unity turned down the deal

[elder sleet]

I am sure he is on here in the sense that he has his hands in it, i doube he is even paying attention to the chats going on here. To him we are ants he does not care.

[fair vigil]

"Mister"
Idk why I chose that as the finishing word

[tranquil dune]

then merged with ironSource right after that

[scarlet heath]

John, if you're here.

please board a jet to tibet. Recieve enlightenment please

[elder sleet]

yea they offered unity 20 billion to buy them out and unity said no and turned around did a 4.4 billion dollar deal with ironsource

[upper heart]

bro is going to lose all of his money because of this, everyone is going to go away. Except the revenue from, the games that already exist

[upper heart]

Brooo......

[tranquil dune]

idiots let me tell you, what company would want to merge with someone that conflicts with so many people out there.

[elder sleet]

oh the ceo is going to be fine financially he can just step down, unity can lose its shirt, what ever and he will still walk away with being nice and well off

[near crane]

but now they did it anyways

[upper heart]

He is going to destroy one of the best communities tho

[elder sleet]

he care nothing about communities

[near crane]

rich sh*theads have gotten away with it before, wouldn't be the first time, when rich enough you can get away with anything

[tranquil dune]

well i gtg to work

[upper heart]

bruh i bet there is going to be someone that will hire a hitman man XD

[bitter tinsel]

"Personally", doesn't matter lol. The company's decisions aren't solely based on wha the wants.

[scarlet heath]

I believe that 20 billion USD offer was more than what they're worth (at the time). It honestly would've doubled their worth

[elder sleet]

all he cares about is 💰 💰 💵 💵 💰 💰 💵 💵 💰 💰 💵 💵

[wary sedge]

I put personally, because I wanted to be clear that was my own personal view right now, and not like, pretending I've done a survey of all Unity Developers and collated the results for you.

[near crane]

Unity really dug their own grave with this one.

[upper heart]

Wait how are they going to tell when someone actually buys the game and downloads it?

[molten phoenix]

m a g i c 🪄

[zenith sky]

it's very common to pay more than what a company is actually worth

[elder sleet]

oh it was reported that was the case but applovin was making the deal i am sure they had plans to increase the value of unity in some way or use unity to increase the value of their own products

[upper heart]

Also i bet someone is going to make a tool to delete the thing they are going to put in there to track that or smth

[molten phoenix]

I'd bet on hackers (disrupting the runtime or using it to sabotage) over unitys internal methods for sure

[upper heart]

wait what if someone uninstalls and reinstalls the game? Does it count?

[molten phoenix]

Will need to wait and see, no updates yet.

[zenith sky]

i hope they will make it sales that you report and not installs

[tranquil dune]

No. But I am sure hackers will find a way to make it happen

[upper heart]

no cause it wont happend, it cant happend

[molten phoenix]

I am not in charge, but feel free to nominate me as Unity CEO

[zenith sky]

the original plan was to make reinstalls count then they switched it to a max of 1 reinstall i think

[upper heart]

Bro fuck no, 1 reinstall? no no no, only sales man thats fucking stupid

[near crane]

yeah per sale or nothing, just the concept of charging per "install" is ridiculus, and anyone defending it is even more ridiculus

[upper heart]

i rather be taxed fairly for the premium unity thingy than this

[tawny crag]

My problem is that it means Unity games will by default have trackers

[azure stone]

Pretty sure that's an internet exclusive right there, literally no-one I've seen talking about it has suggested any specific number of reinstalls other than 0 or not zero.

They can't put trackers in them without violating various regional laws, eg GDPR

[timid oar]

Waiting for what they'll cook up in the next announcement. The whole install tracking itself has to go because it's just a technical landmine in many ways, even if it'll be a self-reported number instead of automatic.

[upper heart]

exactly, and 100% there is going to be a couple of people that will say that unity now tracks your data like the chineese gov

[zenith sky]

it was on the faq i think

[cerulean lintel]

we already have analytics you accept when you use it.

[tawny crag]

But we can opt out from that

[elder sleet]

well i just wish unity just makes their announcements so we either can as a community accept their response or reject it and move on

[zenith sky]

according to bloomberg it will be self-reported but this is not official

[upper heart]

Wait, i think there is a hidden ceo role on this server, cause my discord glitched and i after doing @ ceo i could see a gold yellow role called The Ceo

[wide cradle]

We are all tired, yeah 😦

[azure stone]

The editor can have analytics, but if you strip out analytics from a build, there better not be any calling home done...! Otherwise I've been telling people my game doesn't do something it secretly does...!

[thorny gazelle]

Lies

[timid oar]

Another things for the compliance team to haunt our butts for. They really do love coming up with new ways to bother us.

[upper heart]

idk tho, when the schizophrenia kicks in

[elder sleet]

i just did an @ thing and it shows a ceo as a name not as a title

[upper heart]

Bro i dont fucking care, its fucking stupid

[azure stone]

The editor, right? Not packaged builds?

[tawny crag]

Analytics is only required when you have IAP etc, not by default. Its a service we as developers can turn on and off

[upper heart]

If you have contact with the ceo then please tell him to Fucking Stop Cause He is Destroying The Community And Most Peoples Lives (also aint no one is going to pay the taxes and we will find a workaround)

[edgy remnant]

Pretty sure even builds have some analytics built in, like crash report etc, without the analytics package

[elder sleet]

the only reason why i am in here and following it is because if someone comes up with other ideas and tools to help voice our cause i would like to be part of that because I do not want the pressure to die down.

[tawny crag]

No, not if you havent activated it.

[azure stone]

Yeah nah don't go after staff members, even if they did have direct contact with the CEO (which statistically and realistically given the scenario is very unlikely anyway)

[zenith sky]

that is a very effective way to lose your job(and it could ruin your reputation)

[elder sleet]

i mean on here in this capcitiy is what i mean lol i love the community even before this mess

[timid oar]

Analytics is somewhat different from tying your financial performance to the numbers it comes up with. Companies can't probably anticipate based on that. Still can't fathom why they didn't go for a simple rev-share like Unreal

[upper heart]

well if you are working for a dipshit with a decision like that i wouldnt really care tbh (unless you dont have another job)

[thorny gazelle]

How old are you? You type like you’re five.

[native vortex]

Quick Q but should i remove my high school / secondary education results from my CV?

[azure stone]

How badly did you do?! 🤣

[zenith sky]

getting fired can make it harder to get a new job

[native vortex]

you have your results on your cv?

[upper heart]

i know, im just mad tho. I had to rant a bit

[elder sleet]

i think that is why they slowing down the announcement to allow stocks to stabilize and to make us calm before the next announcement lol

[bitter tinsel]

ppl really started using this channel for everything 😆

[thorny gazelle]

It’s the only one fucking active at this point.

[raven burrow]

Why is everyone so heated TOWARDS AIMY OF ALL PEOPLE

[upper heart]

true

[azure stone]

I'm 43 and self-employed, but last time I updated it, I included A-levels, degree, PhD and job experience. I think I probably had a one-liner encompassing GCSEs, maybe

[timid oar]

The worst part of the whole announcement has been that it applies retroactively to all games released and those in the works. They should never have done that. If they wanted to push a change like this, they should've said "starting with projects on version 2023.3" so we'd have the choice

[zenith sky]

lets wait to the new faq and see what happens before telling staff to get themselves fired

[exotic jay]

Does aimy use unity

[fair vigil]

Aimy is cool

[zenith echo]

Insert Walter from The Big Lebowski: “I’m perfectly calm, dude.”

[native vortex]

yea was gonna say out of all the people id not execept someone older to have high school results on their cv

[upper heart]

yeah ig only time will tell

[elder sleet]

hehehe

[wary smelt]

Stop shitting on the devs, they had no control over any of this

[raven burrow]

aimy is a unity staff member and the crowd favorite. and some of these people are like so heated towards like every unity staff member

[upper heart]

we arent shitting on them tho

[fair vigil]

Imagine John was actually against this but was outnumbered by the board

[elder sleet]

I just hope their announcement is well thought out and a compramise that both t he company and the community can live with, i feel if its to lopside we will be back here all over again

[thorny gazelle]

Nobody has said anything insulting recently towards staff in this chat besides the standard “ceo is bad”

[raven burrow]

the guy that made loot boxes? u sound crazy.

[azure stone]

Unity Devs are even more hard hit than us customers, show a bit of emotional intelligence and human decency and act accordingly smdh

[timid oar]

as reported in the news, Unity staff has been fighting this change internally the most but the C-suite just sprung this on everyone

[bitter tinsel]

Yes, ofcourse I do, where do you think his idea for pay per install came from? 🤔

[upper heart]

biggest anime plot twist of all time

[normal minnow]

Yes because hes the pinacle of selflessness

[exotic jay]

Does it matter? Hasn't he been on record contradicting himself multiple times

[fair vigil]

The villain didn't want to be a villain anymore

[sweet minnow]

Poor aimy, even in her vacations she is hear people are heated towards her

[silver orchid]

fire the c-suite. and give their wages to us

[upper heart]

tbh i have no idea, this seems really random and him being just selfish

[azure stone]

The board is likely at least on board (see what I did) if not actively driving it. Taking nothing away from Jdog

[elder sleet]

yea when we talk about unity in terms of bad decisions, we talking about the bad decisions that was made by the people upstairs not the staff or devs

[zenith echo]

Is this turning into a redemption story arc? 😆

[bitter tinsel]

ppl saying John was against it, while john sold least of his stocks, meaning he trust in this process the most

[zenith sky]

yeah it's not just john that needs to get replaced

[thorny gazelle]

Or he can’t sell more without it being insider trading.

[exotic jay]

Yeah it would be hard to trust unity unless they sold out to a company like microsoft

[timid oar]

Sigh, it's sad that Unity became simply another tale of enshittification following an IPO. It's been a textbook case so far really.

[thorny gazelle]

For how anti-corporate some people are in this chat they sure are hell-bent on billion dollar companies taking over Unity.

[elder sleet]

I still vote on we all just go back to flash and forget about this whole mess. Can we give a moment of silance to flash.....

[zenith sky]

i do not now if we can trust microsoft either there is not that much that can be done to fix this

[exotic jay]

Corporations aren't evil
It's the people that run them that can make bad decisions

[thorny gazelle]

?? What is your point?

[azure stone]

I'd take a well-governed cooperative over a multinational corporation any day of the week

[wary sedge]

Lootboxes for kids, don’t forget 🙂
That’s why they are now against the law in the EU .
Imagine making your millions by finding a loophole to get past the law banning gambling for children.

[autumn niche]

anytime 1 company or product captures as much of the market as unity did, this will happen
this is why competition is important

[exotic jay]

My point is being anti corporation doesn't get at the real problem

[thorny gazelle]

Yeah, I don’t understand this argument

[elder sleet]

Microsoft would at least respect this product more in a professional light. i must say their SDK tools they do take very seriously

[upper heart]

HUH? wait so no more lootboxes at conventions? (or can adults can normally buy them?)

[zenith sky]

yeah i agree but they will most likely find a way to get more money from unity too

[native vortex]

his point is i should be the one in charge of corporations

[thorny gazelle]

?? Literally all I’m saying is that people in this chat who are self declared anti corporatists are weirdly focused on having Microsoft (a billion dollar company) take over Unity.

[wary sedge]

They’ve been classified as gambling, so the standard gambling laws ( such as age restrictions) now apply

[exotic jay]

Other people get it @thorny gazelle
It's pretty simple

[upper heart]

ah alr so i can still buy em

[wary sedge]

I don’t know, are you an adult, what country do you live in? I’ve no idea.

[elder sleet]

they would for sure by expanding it and figuring how it can be used more widely so more people can touch it, they would do more on the marketing side of it, they would figure how to get it to intergrate more into their products, sure it would change its scope but, one thing i know they would not do..... per install fee!

[native vortex]

dont lie, you know where we live

[zenith sky]

i think hes over 18 from poland(looking at his about me)

[thorny gazelle]

I said that some people who are against big corporations in this very chat are advocating for Microsoft (a very big company) to take over Unity. I don’t get what you’re being so snarky about when you responded with something that made no sense in the context of what I was saying.

[upper heart]

oh they are NOT counted as gambling in poland

[wary sedge]

I’m on the ISS right now, so you all live under my carpet.

[zenith sky]

yeah it will be an improvement but it will most likely create some issues too

[upper heart]

wait actually idk anymore

[bitter tinsel]

they shouldn't be counted as gambling as long as you cant sell/trade them for profit

[elder sleet]

that is no doubt but right now its for sure better then this mess

[wary sedge]

Not yet, maybe the whole world will follow the EU soon. USB-c iPhones for EVERYONE

[sweet minnow]

Pic or it didn't happen

[zenith sky]

yeah it's hard to make a bigger mess than this without trying to make a mess

[elder sleet]

Microsoft is not dumb, they would know they have a viable product here, not just the tools but the userbase that uses it and they would want to captialize on that as well, they would do things to try to keep that userbase

[upper heart]

lets hope so (unless the world will turn into a communist or a facist world somehow)

[bitter tinsel]

news?

[wary sedge]

OK you win. I’m not on the ISS. But I am on airplane about to head to Atlanta. Although I’m not in the air yet

[elder sleet]

just keep checking there website much faster then trying to ask on discord hehehe

[thorny gazelle]

Read the pins

[elder sleet]

because we all get the same news from unity from all the same places, no one has a hidden news in their pocket that no one knows in here

[zenith sky]

yeah but the question is if microsoft wants to buy a company that has just destroyed it's reputation and has so many issues

[bitter tinsel]

you can get reputation back btw

[elder sleet]

there was a point microsoft considered the idea but that was way before all t his mess

[thorny gazelle]

They’re not just going to fucking buy it. That’s not how corporate acquisitions work.

[elder sleet]

but here is the thing, if microsoft buys them out, new ceo, new management, new direction, so the rep can be rebuild from that situation

[bitter tinsel]

i need nintendo’s game engine

[wary sedge]

Super Mario Maker Pro 2023.1.r1

[upper heart]

whats their engine even called?

[zenith sky]

yeah but if that's the case it would have to be a major discount and unity is not that interested in getting sold

[bitter tinsel]

they have their own (W)

[upper heart]

yeah but do they have a name for it?

[bitter tinsel]

i think but only for people internally only

[elder sleet]

everyone has a red line where they just have to put their hands up. if things gets bad enough for any company there is a point where they have no choice to sell. unity is not there but can be if they not carefull

[wary sedge]

I have one of their old arcade systems and that’s called Triforce, which always makes me smile

[zenith sky]

maybe

[bitter tinsel]

there’s a “Bezel Engine” apparently

[elder sleet]

there is no 1 nintendo game engine. There is a mix of tools for different projects and different generation. Nintendo even uses Pokemon Go in unity

[upper heart]

ah

[wary sedge]

Niantic are totally independent developers to Nintendo though, aren’t they?

[cerulean lintel]

yikes.

[upper heart]

(btw this isnt to you its more that im mad at the ceo)

[cerulean lintel]

reminder i am not involved in any decision making please don’t take things out on me

[cerulean lintel]

there are some opt in analytics i’m not sure which ones but i know for example we can see a certain % of devices cpus on the android team.

[bitter tinsel]

What does this mean?

[zenith sky]

i think nintendo is the publisher of pokemon in general

[elder sleet]

if they are the publisher then they take on any publishing cost including runtime fees and good luck on getting nintendo to pay that to unity lol

[bitter tinsel]

Nintendo is a huge company, they surely have multiple bespoke game engines

[wary sedge]

I’m not sure. But I was really saying that Niantic are external developers too Nintendo and they had already builtt the Pokemon Go system in Unity for their previous game.

[zenith sky]

If Bloomberg is correct, then it's max 4%, which won't cause any major issues for Nintendo, and if it does, they would most likely make a deal saying that they would not have to pay the runtime fee because you do not want Nintendo to be mad at you.

[elder sleet]

well until the announcement I am going by the current announced policy, everything else is speculation at this point

[zenith sky]

well i do not think that nintendo would let unity do this if that's the case

[bitter tinsel]

Nintendo can make any deal that they want with Unity

[elder sleet]

oh i agree and if they think microsoft or sony will bend for their subscription game download services on those fees, they got another thing coming. The 3 big will turn unity into a pretzel lol

[bitter tinsel]

To be fair, they’d have better deals and do a better job assuming they keep it publicly available

[wary sedge]

Apple and Android would be the biggest sellers of Unity games right?

[bitter tinsel]

Somewhat because they would already make a lot of money without needing to rely on Unity

[autumn niche]

Nintendo has no games it directly makes on unity, only a few studios they deal wiht that do
engine wise its a huge mix what they used based on the studio

[tired hedge]

listen be careful what you say in here because you will get muted if you cross any line

[lunar tusk]

what line could we possibly cross

[bitter tinsel]

Nintendo uses Unity from time to time. Not for a lot of their projects though seemingly. They even have a tool for transferring stuff. If they owned it then they’d probably use Unity way more often.

[autumn niche]

i am talking released games, also it depends on the studio, like Niantic uses unity, but like MecurySteam and Retro do not for example and those are all under Nintendo

[cerulean lintel]

pokémon go was famously made in unity but nintendo only published

[bitter tinsel]

I am too

[elder sleet]

well they are a market place and i was not talking about that as the Fees do not effect the market places themself it effecs the devs or publishers uploading. i was talking about streaming game services where you download as many games as you like for a certain fee per month like gamepass

[bitter tinsel]

Nintendo likely have their own bespoke engines for everything

[autumn niche]

only a few of there IP's are developed by them directly as well

[sweet minnow]

Quick q best open source engine for c++ and 3d development
My current bet is on godot, but I heard some people not recommend it for 3d
I don't know what to pick. The important psrt is I don't want any higher language than c++ for my core game logic
Stride, flax, o3de seem all to bet on c#. Does someone know an alternative?

[tired hedge]

yeah thats a quick questionalright

[tacit tusk]

What if unity muse becomes self aware and fires the board of directors?

[autumn niche]

there is no best engine, thats like asking whats the best hammer, look at your needs and what things do

[sweet minnow]

I mean I specified my needs capable 3D and c++

[bitter tinsel]

It’s mainly personal preference

[azure stone]

It sounds like you want your core game logic to be DOD. In which case unreal/Mass may be of interest

[tired hedge]

mars what pricing concerns do you have like would you want to pay by check or coins. And runtime fees ok?

[bitter tinsel]

Unreal’s pricing is pretty amazing

[native vortex]

wed applaud

[elder sleet]

yea agree on this statement, not every game engine is right for every project and dev, its matter of preference, comfort lvel, and what your needs are

[tired hedge]

guys unite alway had our back we should not juzt give up because a couple pennies here and there

[native vortex]

any cheap hammer will do, a hammers a hammer, not much point getting the more expensive one. Your tip of the day.

[edgy yew]

Yeah what'd a few 100k between friends right ?

[tired hedge]

who was there when u needed easy light rendering

[exotic jay]

It wasn't an attack against what you said
It was pointing out an issue with the people that you were referencing

[elder sleet]

lol

[tired hedge]

and who was there when u were sick and needed some to help you relax - was it not unity

[azure stone]

Yeah, I remember when I was backed up against the wall by 3 armed thugs, unity had my back then and always has since!

[native vortex]

that was roblox

[tired hedge]

in fact mayb unite should have raised more not less and we shud be happy

[elder sleet]

This community went down this road before. Remember the death of flash?

[azure stone]

I wrote my own raymarching shaders, unity did. not. help. me.

[autumn niche]

yup, was there and adapted like everyone else at the time

[tired hedge]

well unite inspired u to do more Roo - what a good pal unite is

[sweet minnow]

A free tier should be available and the payment structure should be predictable

[native vortex]

wats unite

[azure stone]

It's the awks conference coming up in NL soon

[tired hedge]

listen mars need to know if u would want pay in rolls of coin or just loose coins

[sweet minnow]

So probably unreal is my best bet. Trying to avoid it, too much bloat

[elder sleet]

and regardless what happens with unity, we will just adapt like before. The game industry had its ups and downs in the past. This was not the first and doubt this will be the last. i remember the game crash of 83 lol

[bitter tinsel]

The company has been shady for a while apparently. Sure, their Engine is good but that’s not a valid argument for disregarding everything they’ve done and are publicly stating they will do

[azure stone]

Bloat? I mean the editor is set by default to run with high settings, but that's not bloat

[elder sleet]

2 letters ET

[autumn niche]

its just a tool, really the biggest issue with this is it hits people hard that already put the work in. if it only effected future versions people would be less angry and look at new tools and soultions for new projects

[tired hedge]

listen when I was down and out I asked good pal unite - 'unite - what shud I do?' - unite then pick me up and give me free a* pathing and now I swim in coins

[elder sleet]

for you old timers in here or know their game history would know my reference of the ET comment lol

[bitter tinsel]

“You should give us your wallet”

[azure stone]

I'm so old I probably forgot it

[tired hedge]

now unite need money so not so hungry ne-more - who r we to turn our faces?

[elder sleet]

people were vested in flash whole studios

[tacit tusk]

the flash demise was pretty epic

[autumn niche]

yeah aware have a project i spent a year on that never went out the door

[elder sleet]

but we manage to come out of it

[bitter tinsel]

“Some” is a huge understatement tbh

[autumn niche]

really best outcome of this, would be multiple other engines going through growth and improving and getting back to a place where there is comptition in the game engine market

[bitter tinsel]

I feel like companies need more competition

[near crane]

For people who think Godot isn't compareable to Unity, this unity dev did this in a week https://www.reddit.com/r/godot/comments/16o5v7u/godot_4_3d_is_viable_alternative/

[tired hedge]

but did he do with love and unite?

[autumn niche]

even if you do not more to a new engine, competition is good for all devs and consumers

[elder sleet]

i think its more of a matter that people is so passionate about this decision unity did and they want the leadership to change even if that leadership is big corp

[bitter tinsel]

There’s no way a small company can buy it anyways

[tacit tusk]

share price is dropping again, was there an announcement?

[elder sleet]

i think if that happens then "we will need a bigger boat"

[near crane]

not yet, but once it shrinks small enough 😎

[autumn niche]

a small company would not have to in the long run, with enough competition it needs to be good to its customers or die, but it has none right now

[bitter tinsel]

It honestly won’t shrink small enough

[tired hedge]

everytime 1 person sell unite stock then someone somewhere cry

[bitter tinsel]

It’s pretty advanced and is an extremely good option if you’re hoping to make 2D games. It’ll take a bit of time for other engines to refine their graphics and other things to compete seriously

[elder sleet]

its just stock people playing the stock game really

[tired hedge]

not a game - unite has mouths to feed and no1 wantsto give money

[tacit tusk]

I hopes its not made with unity

[autumn niche]

hoping this increases funding to other tech as well to compete with it

[elder sleet]

it was just a joke

[tired hedge]

everytim I think - 'do i give up on unite?' I think would this be acting like som1 who is peaceful and in unite with the world? then I dont do that

[coarse cairn]

rip unity

[bitter tinsel]

Unite

[elder sleet]

oh if anyone is interested i have found a good camp site at a place called crystal lake 😉

[tired hedge]

off topic

[elder sleet]

i was making fun of my name

[tired hedge]

this no name making fun of channel

[bitter tinsel]

Unity in mocking Unity

[elder sleet]

yea Unity is it's own meme and the mods say no memes allowed, so how do we handle this situation?

[weary oxide]

any update i want to know if plus gonna be back

[native vortex]

unity must have asked Muse on how to make more money with Unity to come up with pay per install

[tired hedge]

listen mayb price makes u 'eh no unite' and u go. When you come back u think unite still waiting round for u? or move on to some1 new.... things to tink about

[cerulean lintel]

nothing official.

[elder sleet]

its on there website or pinned on the discord once it happens

[bitter tinsel]

Thankfully people aren’t responding with “check the pins” anymore

[elder sleet]

too late. darn slowmo cannot respond fast lol

[bitter tinsel]

I’d wait three more days

[elder sleet]

i do not ask i just refresh the site and you will know pretty quickly if the news changed based off the discussions lol

[tired hedge]

unite is like fine aged bread get bettr with more price and time

[bitter tinsel]

Depends on when you join into the conversation

[elder sleet]

true but discord will blow up when there is news on the matter and the pinned comment and the website is telling

[summer hill]

not gonna lie im afraid

[tired hedge]

dnt b unite protect u always

[weary oxide]

of what?

[bitter tinsel]

Do you have a project being developed in Unity?

[summer hill]

of the future and of the unknown
@bitter tinsel yes

[elder sleet]

yup, its on hold until the decisions are final

[tired hedge]

listen if godot so good y it free - dnt make the mistake. pay most u can always for something

[bitter tinsel]

Good luck. How far into it are you?

[weary oxide]

i dont believe they gonna do something stupid as this again

[tired hedge]

also if we all share 1 computer we only need buy 1 unite i think (need to check with unite lawyer)

[bitter tinsel]

Unity is free (You only have to pay after a certain point )

[elder sleet]

there is a lot of tools that is powerfull and free, linux, blender, gimp, etc.... just because its free does not mean its a bad product

[tired hedge]

mayb even if free we can still share 1 computer?

[bitter tinsel]

He’s trolling

[pliant raven]

Not sure what to make of the announcement not having been made yet. Doesn't really make much sense to speculate, but it is a bit annoying as I am waiting for the final version of the plans before making some pretty important decisions. It is certainly not building confidence that Bloomberg was the chosen communication channel so far (unless Schreier was misinformed which would surprise me).

[weary oxide]

yeah but it come with badge of shame you need to pay if you want to remove it

[bitter tinsel]

I used to be proud of that splash screen

[tired hedge]

badge of honor - u part of th e tribe with that

[bitter tinsel]

Having predictions is fine as long as they’re realistic and based on official news

[weary oxide]

ppl who use UE get out of there way to put the logo cuz its honor to show it

[bitter tinsel]

What is a good engine to switch to

I accidentally pressed enter lmao

[tired hedge]

eyes brows go up when u pull up to that unite screen - and - listne - many potential partners look at each oter and say - 'they kno ting or two - invest'

[strange latch]

Let's say you want to make big game, make that game popular. Is it smart to (for right now) using unity to make that kind of game? or is it better to switch to another engine before it's too late?

[sweet minnow]

If this statement true, why most server run free linux

[bitter tinsel]

Personal preference but I’d do Godot for 2D and Unreal for 3D. Perhaps Godot for both

[tired hedge]

worth couple extra cents a download

and listen if linux so good then y no mum recommends - mums kno a lot

[summer hill]

ive done like 30%

[livid zenith]

Linux best open source os

[bitter tinsel]

Maybe something less hardware taxing for 3D

[bitter tinsel]

You’re poor soul.. Do you mind if I see your work by the way in dms or #💻┃unity-talk

[tired hedge]

listen u want to make big game - u go big pay go unite - u want lil baby catepillar game go godot - all iam sayin

[summer hill]

not showing sorry

[bitter tinsel]

Godot is a good option and doesn’t have a blood contract then

[bitter tinsel]

Completely fine. Good luck with the future

[tired hedge]

listen u kno scammers go round say 'this free' 'this free' - then BOOM - right when u think 'wut a good un' - big ol cost and u crie, yes many times u crie. Unite u pay big and with smile - no scam.

[weary oxide]

im not gonna lie unity is good engine for this kind of stuff , but its up to you to put trust on them or not

[bitter tinsel]

You can make good games in a lot of different engines. Switching is the hard part

[tired hedge]

you ever see godot splash screen? No - then tink twice my friends

[bitter tinsel]

You’ll see it when people deliberately add it

[weary oxide]

just punch of ungrateful people

[tired hedge]

I've heard some urinals even have unite splash screen in the sensor - truly everywhere

[strange latch]

thanks just why are people hating so much about unity... Yes I Understand they make this mess but let's say Pokemon GO made more then 5% revenue royalty... Am I missing something that is drastic about this $ per install? Is it that bad?

[bitter tinsel]

Well, he is a troll after all

[strange latch]

fair point

[tired hedge]

is because they all tink they r too good now for unite bcuz unite show them the way. when they come back will unite be there?... no way no way

[weary oxide]

its 4% cap now, or what leaks said

[tired hedge]

they will crie 'unite we were wrong so very crzy wrong' - and unite no respond - because - die broken heart.

[bitter tinsel]

At least C# is widely supported

[tired hedge]

all for what - some pennies. not worth a good friend

[weary oxide]

C# in godot is so limited

[bitter tinsel]

(Fuck JavaScript for game development)

[weary oxide]

never use JS for Games

[sweet minnow]

Never use JS
Corrected that for you

[bitter tinsel]

Yeah, I have a copy and paste about my concerns with Godot

Knowing a lot of C# could be useful for a variety of different reasons including other engine’s supporting it. I haven’t used enough of Godot to know if I’ll stick with it. Therefore, I’m not sure how reasonable it’d be for me to learn GDScript

[strange latch]

what if game is free do they just take your money?

[tender cedar]

Unity is dead. Long live Unity.

[tired hedge]

unite dont take unite only earn

[bitter tinsel]

It’s an amazing language. I use it with HTML, PHP, and CSS for web development

[weary oxide]

yes if u mkae 200k from the game

[summer hill]

i just heard that in Vikings with "king". why do they say that
i guess the second sentence refers to next king

[bitter tinsel]

You probably won’t make enough money for them to with it being free. You need to make at least $200k before they make you pay per install

[weary oxide]

yeah $200k is not easy to reach i will be happy with 50k

[strange latch]

how to make if the game is free? like in game currency?

[tired hedge]

u shud pay b4 then becuase u r good person

[bitter tinsel]

Tell yourself that when you’ll have to delete your game two years later

[weary oxide]

i will add drm that stop game install at 199.999 installs

[tired hedge]

givin up on unite is like givin up on nike

[bitter tinsel]

You’ll have to remove it manually depending on where you publish it

[strange latch]

for 0.15$ really?

[tender cedar]

Yes, it's a wordplay on monarchy (when a king dies the replacement is there immediately)

[tired hedge]

most ppl only ragin because otherwise nuthin happen in their life but they nevr sell even .5 a game

[bitter tinsel]

Giving up on Nike is extremely easy unlike switching from Unity

Unrelated but the .20 thing doesn’t matter if you publish your game on Steam. It’s mainly trust. I did some math and if you make your game $2 more, you’ll be fine. Remember that only ten devices can use one account to download games

[summer hill]

ohh

[tired hedge]

wut u think unite should charge

[amber patrol]

https://github.com/ProjectUnifree/unifree

[bitter tinsel]

“I did some math” tbh just .20 times ten. I’m pretty sure you can just add the $2 increase before making $200k

[weary oxide]

i really do wish for unity to succeed , i don't want for the good people in unity to lose there jobs from a mistake that is out of there control

[bitter tinsel]

I’m fine with Unity surviving as long as there’s more competition from this point forward, leading them to not want to try testing the limits further

[strange latch]

I want unity to succeed because I love the engine

[subtle cedar]

Just go with gog

[ripe walrus]

So still no news, at all!?!?!

[tired hedge]

wondr if neopets uses unite

[bitter tinsel]

Not that my opinion matters since Unity won’t dissolve

[upper heart]

Wait can you code in C# in godot?

[wanton sigil]

Whether you can deploy it is another question

[tired hedge]

rekt

[upper heart]

wdym?

[wanton sigil]

A lot of platform restrictions

[tired hedge]

and danny seen some stuff best listen to him

[misty verge]

in godot 4+ you can't deploy to mobile or web if using c#. though i think 4.2 is supposed to include android support

[pliant raven]

True, but I would really like a predictable license and price model for current versions of the engine. I don't like the idea that Unity can just change the price to whatever. It's weird if they don't take this opportunity to make whatever they need to have sustainable revenue and then scrap the "we can change this whenever" part. As long as it is still in there, I would feel uneasy shipping more Unity based games.

[fair vigil]

Is it possible to limit how many times your game can be downloaded with publishers?
Taking steam as an example.

[upper heart]

ah alright

[sweet minnow]

You can code in any language you want. Thanks to gdextensions
C# and gds are the main ones currently. C# gets a lot of attention in active development, ror uhm reasons, it can only ship on desktop currently tho. This will change

[bitter tinsel]

(Unrelated again, sorry but:) I love when people ask the community about future plans at least.

[bitter tinsel]

Like pricing, changing up TOS

[sweet minnow]

Yes 4.2 dev versions include android export with dotnet 7

[bitter tinsel]

Apparently you should get a “Mono version” if you want to use C# in the script editor

[misty verge]

yes, that's just a different build of the engine with c# support

[sweet minnow]

If you want to use c# at all. But that is explained on the download page

[bitter tinsel]

Tbh, I hope using C# in Godot isn’t much harder then using it in Unity

[tired hedge]

lets get back to price talk

[pliant raven]

I honestly think the "surprise! We can do whatever, even in regard to already shipped games!" is what caused the most concern among non "amateur" and non-FP devs. It is such a scary asymmetry that it makes no sense to expect customers to just be ok with it. Name your price, but perpetual license please

[bitter tinsel]

I only know the basics and most tutorials around Godot are using GDScript. If it’s quite different then Unity tutorials may not be able to help. Even if I choose GDScript, Godot tutorials are already limited generally and that means being more dedicated to the engine without any personal experience

[sweet minnow]

It is not. It is pretty straight forward from my perspective. I have experience in a lot of different languages tho, so I might not be the best example. I currently have decided to ditch c# for my experiments with godot and use c++ for game logic and gescript for ui events and so on, everything that needs to be integrated tightly within the editor

This is just experimenting with godot tho, I still using unity for my in development project

[weary oxide]

i have been missing with godot c# for last week and its very limited compare to unity and gdscript it self missing a lot of future and it only work in godot unlike c#

[bitter tinsel]

They’re comparing it to Python which is another reason why I’d rather use C#

[tired hedge]

godot has like 2 employees - not good comparison

[sweet minnow]

What do you mean with limited? I'm curious

[bitter tinsel]

I heard some people use C# for most of the development and GDScript for stuff like UI

[weary oxide]

gdscript have no interfaces or abstarct class so most of the time you will have to reley on inhritance

[sweet minnow]

That is definetly a way to do it. I just really like low level languages and it was something missing in unity for me. It wasn't a deal braker but I still missed it

[bitter tinsel]

How about your comment on C#?

[sweet minnow]

I know that but you called the c# side limited as well. I have honestly seen not much differences between godot c# and unity c#

[tired hedge]

mars I think rpg maker has rust support

[bitter tinsel]

Amethyst does too

[tired hedge]

not sure if super mario maker does but u couldd try that to for a game like wht you want @sweet minnow

[sweet minnow]

It is not 3d tho afaik

[tired hedge]

anyways i am pretty quick on my feet so if unite wants to charge by mile time it will be ok becuz I am usually like forth or fifth place

[bitter tinsel]

About the per seat thing, is that after the $200k?

[weary oxide]

ahh i miss understand , c# for any class to be node it most be partial , and you cant expose custom types in the inspector it moss be of specific types int , flaot, bool etc , async task crash godot some times

[tired hedge]

yes but there are a few creative ways u can get around it. one local studio has already swapped out some of their seating. if you shop around u will find there are some chairs the more than 1 person can fit on and its not that weird

[sweet minnow]

This is the way most people will use it, you can do it before if you really want to, but you don't have to

[bitter tinsel]

Wrong reply?

[bitter tinsel]

Oh, nvm.

[weary oxide]

but if you buy the 2k year and next year you made 50k you cant go back to personal , (if I'm not wrong)

[tired hedge]

gotta believe in urself more

ifu make a game and u say - ' this one not gunna do more than 50k' stop - make nother game

unite price the way they do because they believe in u - u need believe in u too

[sweet minnow]

Oh I see. You can expose custom types with enums bit otherwise I see the problem
For me it is not too much of an issue since I like decoupling my game logic from the engine. So I for example rely on singletons for some tasks, like custom datatype managers, so that the calls never even reach the engine itself
With that it is not too bad. Haven't tried the async stuff yet

[bitter tinsel]

Do they believe in me or my wallet’s size being bigger than it is

[tired hedge]

listen u want lil baby shrimp price but unite like a big whale - no make sense

mod pin that and close this channel plz we done here

[weary oxide]

ty for info i never know abt exposing with enum i need to do more research

[autumn salmon]

You also don't have to use inheritance. You can set up your nodes such that they act like components

[tired hedge]

casuilli maybe u need just whale belly or just whale ear or some small part - well u pay for it - unite u pay 1 time u get whole whale (then u pay again get whole whale again) - rly selfless company if u tink bout it

[sweet minnow]

Oh yea enums are quite a handy trick for example I recreate the game portal as a learning project and didn't want to create 2 portal classes. So I just set an enum portaltype with content blue or orange, I exposed that to the engine and let my logic handle the rest internally
It is a different style of developing you essentially develop your own ecosystem next to the engine, which the engine interacts with

[bitter tinsel]

I’d rather get a different whale for free

[tired hedge]

u can do that its fine but only 1 whale that love u back if u pay em

[weary oxide]

i did some tricks with bool as button when ever you toggle it it invoke logic then go back to false

[sweet minnow]

You might want to look into signals

[bitter tinsel]

“Save you money so that you have more to pay Unity”

[tired hedge]

unite care like that

[fair vigil]

Testing

[tired hedge]

unite has always best prices but sometimes not best shoppers

[livid zenith]

Speaking the language of the universe

[bitter tinsel]

Hello ! Does unity still charge 0.20 per install?

[native vortex]

as far as i know their plan of introducing 0.20 an install hasn't been abandoned yet

[bitter tinsel]

Oh...

[modern wadi]

not till 2024 but they have not abandon the idea yet

[stray fractal]

https://unity.com/runtime-fee

they clearly haven't abandoned this yet, as can be seen on the page. they are just trying to reword it again until it sticks

[tired hedge]

I kinda like it a bit

cuz it could have been 40 cents an install

[magic salmon]

you like fee because it could have been 40 cents instead of 20?

[tired hedge]

yea

[native vortex]

(he wants unity dead)

[weary oxide]

base on leaks they gonna add cap of 4% revenue

[sweet minnow]

I will use your argument, it could have be 10 cents per install.
Now what?

[tired hedge]

mars dont b greedy

[thorny gazelle]

You have to do a lot of work to Godot to get its 3D renderer to not be shit so I’ve heard, and UE5 has some issues itself with Nanite.

[summer hill]

WHYY no news guys

[native vortex]

call unity

[modern wadi]

they said a few days so maybe news on friday or monday if they harry

[summer hill]

dont have the number

[thorny gazelle]

Why the fuck are you in here asking us? Check the pins if you want to see if there’s new news. Otherwise just sit and wait like the rest of us.

[tired hedge]

u kno lesson here we all can learn not to be such greedy game makers

[summer hill]

dang

[native vortex]

u are right, im gonna add more ads to my game + microtransactions + gift boxes

[magic salmon]

unity should learn to be a less greedy company

[vestal dune]

Y'all are real easy to bait

[thorny gazelle]

On that sort of topic, quick question. At what point do you think having a paid DLC is acceptable?

[native vortex]

acceptable for as long as its charging 0.20 cents a download

[tired hedge]

all dlc should be a quarter a piece

if u need charge more split more dlc so gamer feel happier to get more

[thorny gazelle]

Fuck I didn’t mean to delete that

[tired hedge]

no cursin plz

[olive oyster]

you just said a bad word

[tired hedge]

unite charge him more for cursin

[native vortex]

Fuck you cant even curse anymore

[tired hedge]

u can just cost mre

[stray fractal]

they should follow their own example, and give users back 0.2€ every time someone installs their editor

[native vortex]

smart, they know no one would install their editor

[tired hedge]

dont be silly

[misty verge]

Wish granted. you now owe unity 200k and have to install the editor 200k times before they start paying out

[stray fractal]

oh I won't be shipping any games with this engine 😶

[tired hedge]

i alredy taught the trick here but no1 listenin

u just tell customers to share computer and u dont need pay fee over and over

[native vortex]

virtual computer

[tired hedge]

if u see some1 on bus playin the game u wuz thinking of getting - say hey - sir /muam let me borrow phone for few days

[native vortex]

I will allow users to access virtual computers and they pay 10$ dollars a month to use them

[tired hedge]

money money money all u think money - y not share toothbrush - boom 1 dollar to pay for fees freed up

unite ceo need bonus aftr dealing with so many shrimps complain

[native vortex]

shrimps? he need glasses im cat

[bitter tinsel]

I don't think unity is doing enough i mean they made the game engine for christ sakes. They should at least get 10% of revenue on games that make 10k or more. Are you fricken kidding me, if Unity didn't exist you wouldn't even have a game to begin with

[tired hedge]

finally som1 with sense

just dont take Lords name in vain next time please

[native vortex]

if not for me watching ads made by unity games 24/7, unity wouldnt be rackign in millions right now

[bitter tinsel]

well unity ads is a great stream of revenue for the developer too so turn off ur ads and users can easily use an adblocker for christ sakes.

be grateful you could even make a game in the unity engine

im surprised unity set the bar so high for when they even want to make money off of games it's got to be greater than 200k

[tired hedge]

exactly in fact I think more people should record video of them thanking and bowing to unity at start of their game so all gamers know

[wary smelt]

Fuck Unity

[bitter tinsel]

could have easily set it to 10k at 10% revenue and it would be more reasonable

[native vortex]

Unity is a corporate entity you cant fuck it

[tired hedge]

not with that spirit

[wary smelt]

”be grateful the lords have only slaughtered some of the serfs today, and not all”

[bitter tinsel]

u realize how many great games that have been made with unity, unity deserves every install fee...

[fading wolf]

Hi again, have there been any new news?

[tired hedge]

honestly I think they really could have charged per time people open game bcuz install is only once - its not fair

[bitter tinsel]

i mean for christ sakes unity is fricken free...

[tired hedge]

like when do u pay only first time u go to chuckecheesits?

[native vortex]

isnt it weird, how i also have a habit of saying "new news" instead of "news" lol

[bitter tinsel]

well i would say charging people every time they open the game is unfair but maybe if the developer had a charge every time someone plays which i dont think ive ever heard of

[wary smelt]

They aren’t going to invite you to their Yacht party, why you dick riding so hard

[native vortex]

not with that attitude

[bitter tinsel]

i aint dick riding im just speaking facts - if u can't understand that the games wouldn't have existed if unity ever existed in the first place then u r truly lost

[tired hedge]

StOP ALL PROFANTITY

[fading wolf]

well I will take the lack of responses to my question as a sign you all are planning to charge me for an unmeasurable amount, but I may just be confused.

[native vortex]

id cahrge you 10 dollars an hour just for speaking to me

[fading wolf]

I knew it!

[bitter tinsel]

im just saying i dont think an install fee is unreasonable and i dont think them taking a cut of revenue streams is also not unreasonable. they deserve the fricken money for all the love and support they give to the engine

[limber widget]

Yeah, like why don't they charge for everytime we run the playmode while developing or everytime we build the game for tests.

[bitter tinsel]

no that's ridiculous...

[native vortex]

u guys are lucky water companies arent cahrging you 0.20 cents every time you turn on the tap

[limber widget]

as is an install fee

[tired hedge]

sapulha be honest u never even finished a game much less sold 1

[bitter tinsel]

they could probably have a new unity engine which you pay a subscription for. like unity v2023 which comes with some bug fixes and maybe a couple of features and it's maybe $50 a month i don't think that's unreasonable

[fading wolf]

I live in the dry part of Mexico... they _aren't? _

[tired hedge]

u should pay unite for not finish ur game and embarass their reputation

[bitter tinsel]

yea sapulha what making a coin said - u probably never made a game so why would u care if unity devs get charged per install fee

[static radish]

I honestly cannot tell if you are trolling...

[limber widget]

a fixed amount over everygame sold would be okay, install fee is ridiculous and the worst is not actually the install fee but the retroactive TOS

[bitter tinsel]

if i made a game i would be happy that unity is taking their fair share of the profits i mean they essentially built the whole fricken engine, and i just made the game

[native vortex]

He was orphaned be nice to him

[fading wolf]

I looked into the Flax engine today. It looks very unity-like, which is promising. Haven't checked out the API yet... but I did make sure to read the ToS very carefully.

What's everyone's opinions on it?

[limber widget]

changing TOS as you like just show that your service is not reliable

[bitter tinsel]

nice just resulting to slander because someone doesn't agree with what you think - really just shows how childish the anti-unity crowd is nowadays

did your mom teach you to attack the argument and not the person? I really don't think that I'm the orphan here

[fading wolf]

It does look good, and has some very neat-looking features. Built-in floating origin support is life-changing for me, and blending between shadow cascades!!!

[tired hedge]

serious preach it I've been here defend unite honor all day

[wary smelt]

This is one of the most cucked text channels I’ve ever seen

[static radish]

"Nowadays"? I am serious though, few of your points actually make sense.

[fading wolf]

It was positively on fire with hatred yesterday though

[tired hedge]

I seriously think unite should charge when u dont finish game for defamation

it woudl be biggest source of revenue by far seeing all who chats in here whinin bout price

[fading wolf]

That's not a bad thought. Shovelware should be frowned upon in all platforms

[native vortex]

"few of your points actually make sense?" u say that like he made points taht made sense

[wary smelt]

Man, they were some truly cucked mfs in here the other day

[wary sedge]

But they have (only) 7000 employees, and how many Unity developers are there? Let’s say 700,000
So they are only doing 1% the work you are doing when you make a game.

[jaunty creek]

I think he was just being nice 🙂

[wary smelt]

I think some asshole was calling devs “children” because we don’t like a big corpo bankrupting us

[fading wolf]

this goes for Steam also... early access these days is a negative thing mostly because of the waves of shovelware they started to allow

[bitter tinsel]

I think its a good thing because they dont make much money and they can make alot of new updates with it

[native vortex]

not as much of an insult as CEOs "fucking idiots"

[tired hedge]

lets be honest without unite half the people here wouldn't be able to make 1 3rd monkey

[fading wolf]

I think I read that in a satire article

[bitter tinsel]

im calling you children because you're just insulting me instead of arguing why unity shouldn't keep their install fee or take some percentage of the revenue

[molten phoenix]

Evereyone get along, we're all that we have

[wary smelt]

How many alts does John R have in this server?

[bitter tinsel]

If unity never had their engine in the first palce unity games wouldn't exist OF COURSE they should take in some of the profits

[vague lark]

the charge isnt the main problem its the fact they brought this on us with no warning or respect for the developers

[wary smelt]

I don’t respect anyone defending a big corpo deciding to bankrupt us devs

[bitter tinsel]

Im not a alternate account you imbecile I am just saying that they dont make enough money and they can also pay their employees more

[manic notch]

Are you asking people on this channel to be reasenable?? C'mon.
These folks were demanding an unity employee to quit their job and go homeless here lmao

[tired hedge]

PZ wut u mean i still got unite i dont need whinin shrimps in here in my corner

[molten phoenix]

we got ur back anyways

[bitter tinsel]

clearly they have no respect for the unity engine developers and think they deserve all the money even though they had nothing to do with the development of the engine

[tired hedge]

PZ dont talk about my back one more time pervert

[native vortex]

if not for the ads i watched on unitys youtube videos, they wouldnt be racking in millions right now, unity should be thanking me

[wary smelt]

Then lay people off instead of fucking over devs. Also I don’t give a fuck if they can’t make enough money. They try to fuck with the indie community, they can get fucked

[tepid spruce]

I have to agree with @bitter tinsel. If you guys didn't have unity in the first place you guys wouldn't even have a game

[bitter tinsel]

The install fee is ridiculous. They also explained the system vaguely and barely communicated to the community. Disregarding all of that, the new change is unfair for people currently developing games with it and games already made with the engine. Percentage per purchase? Sure

[tired hedge]

indie community? just because u downloaded a mario clone on github and got it to run dont bmake u game dev

[limber widget]

install fee is ridiculous and hardly pratical but not the real problem, problem is change in TOS, retroactive enforcement of it and little time for companies to adapt to change(and yes adapting I mean dumping unity for something else)

[wary smelt]

So much cuckholdery in this chat, shit is crazy 💀

[tiny prism]

What is happening here

[native vortex]

some are being satire, others arent

[vague lark]

100% if they wanted to charge developers just do it in a better way instead of this garbage

[tired hedge]

gotta get in pairs of 2 and debate this out 🔥

[jaunty creek]

Not a single person is disputing that.

[molten phoenix]

That and the lack of strategy and foresight, as they are the ones also making other calls/choices for the tech and engine layers.

They really should consider a new round of leadership post IPO

[tepid spruce]

This is true unity is constantly adding updates and its more than fair

[bitter tinsel]

You guys wouldnt have even made money if it wasnt for unity

Why not instead of complaining about the price increase for unity make a better game for christ sakes seems like you guys are just lazy and mad. If you had just made a better you would have made more profits and wouldn't care if unity took 4% of the revenue

[wary smelt]

So big corpo now should be able to bankrupt me? Fuck that

[bitter tinsel]

It would have taken alot longer without as many employees for example bugs

[native vortex]

no thats the goverments job to bankrupt you

[tepid spruce]

4% is wayyyyyy more than fair

[steady owl]

almost 4 years accumulated of paid job thanks to learning Unity

[bitter tinsel]

Funny how some of you people are throwing blanket statements about this community and it not being able to code a game without unity. How stupid and baseless you guys are

[woven harbor]

How? There are many game engines to chose to. If people didnt have unity they would go somewhere else. Hello anyway

[tired hedge]

maybe price goin up will help get some of these shrimps out of the community releasin free games ruin for all

[bitter tinsel]

I guess people already developing a game should just quit then?

[tepid spruce]

Then don't use unity u fucjinh idiot

[bitter tinsel]

Good luck finding more talented engine developers than in unity. they are some of the best in the world....

[wary smelt]

All you people saying ”but they made the engine” are cucks. Cucks with no spine who don’t give a duck about other developers, and would gladly throw the rest of the indie community under the bus if you could. Y’all are whack

[woven harbor]

hahahha

[agile spruce]

I can't believe I have to do this every day: stop bickering like children.

[jaunty creek]

John R. is that you?

[tepid spruce]

John r?

[limber widget]

If unity wants to change their TOS they are more than welcome to do it but they shouldn't do it in a retroactive way so people that is not happy with their new TOS is not forced to be chained by it. They agreed to the old TOS not the new one.

[steady owl]

there is not other Engine that has a Big Community like that. NO other!

[native vortex]

Dont say John with the hard R

[bitter tinsel]

The purpose of this channel is in the title. You can’t really expect people to not disagree with each other and debate on why they’re right tbf

[tired hedge]

lets have substantial talk about pricing plz stay on topic

[bitter tinsel]

You're calling us a cucks? What are you then? Someone that can't make an enjoyable game that in itself makes lots of profit? Incompentent?

I am happy with giving them 4% of revenue tbf

[woven harbor]

Thats not argument at all

[agile spruce]

Being civil is expected regardless, thanks.

[bitter tinsel]

That’s true though debates in general is fine

[tired hedge]

yes plz I've told em no cursin and no takin Lord's name in vain multipl etimes

[steady owl]

godot are traying to "steal" the Unity's Community froma avery long time ago.

[bitter tinsel]

I think Unity could have increased it to 10% and I don't even think that would be unreasnoable

[tepid spruce]

Id say 4% is more than fair.. 10% would be more middle grounds though

[woven harbor]

? 💀

[weary oxide]

i dont get ppl who want unity to fail they think unity only have john riccitiello in staff

[native vortex]

Thats unreasonable. || it should be 30% like steam ||

[bitter tinsel]

Unity taking 4% of developers' profits can be seen as a positive aspect for several reasons. Firstly, it provides a sustainable revenue model for Unity, enabling them to continue improving and expanding their platform. This means developers can expect ongoing support, updates, and access to cutting-edge technologies, ultimately enhancing the quality of their games. Additionally, this fee helps maintain a level playing field in the industry, preventing potential free-riders from overloading the platform without contributing to its maintenance. Furthermore, it aligns the interests of Unity and developers, as both parties benefit from the platform's growth and success. This financial partnership fosters a sense of collaboration, encouraging Unity to invest in resources that directly support developers' needs. Overall, the 4% fee serves as an investment in the long-term sustainability and innovation of the Unity ecosystem, ultimately benefiting developers and the broader gaming community.

You probably haven't even made a game that grossed more than $100. I don't think these prices affect your game.

[tepid spruce]

U guys gotta remember the 4% u pay gives unity more resources to add updates

[steady owl]

wow

[icy roost]

none of these people have, theyre crying over literally nothing

[tired hedge]

if u havent sold a game ur opinion is like shrimp opinion on price

[bitter tinsel]

Its not like you paid to make your game

[weary oxide]

its not 4% its 4% cap that mean you might pay less than the 4%

[native vortex]

thats an insult to the shrimps out in the ocean

[tired hedge]

true

[icy roost]

i saw a guy who just started unity 2 days ago, then the pricing was announced and now all he does is bitch on this channel

[jaunty creek]

😉

[bitter tinsel]

Another stupid assumption. You think these solo game devs planned to go bust before the game was out... no? Why dont you stop trying to predict how well other peoples games will do and worry about yours

I mean Unity is a great engine i'm surprised they DON'T charge you a subscription for using their engine...

[tepid spruce]

10% is actually fair because the money they make from it goes to improving unity

[wary smelt]

It’s hard to be civil when certain people here are defending and rooting for small developers and studios, and families, facing financial ruin because of the greed of millionaires. The people defending Unity lack character and have a morally abhorrent world view. Hard to respect them

[tired hedge]

millionaire built the engine my dude

[vestal dune]

It might come as a surprise to most of this channel to find out but it is possible to disagree without being children about it and resorting to namecalling and temper tantrums

[agile spruce]

Well, try your best. I don't have the patience for people throwing insults at each other.

[limber widget]

A % increase would be reasonable, but not a retroactive % increase. Most that would happen is people not choosing unity for their future projects.

[bitter tinsel]

Disagreeing with the decisions any company makes is valid as long as the arguments are constructive and reasonable. That’s true regardless of how long you’ve used it

[bitter tinsel]

Then they should be focused on making a greater game that brings in MORE profit instead of complaining about the unity pricing planes 🤦‍♂️

[wary smelt]

You have questionable morals and a questionable world view

[bitter tinsel]

That is a amazing point grim would anyone like to elaborate?

[tired hedge]

I wish they retroactively billed anyone who complainin for complainin

[weary oxide]

you think unity dont have employees who have family's ?

[bitter tinsel]

yeah imo 4% is fine as long as the company dont go into negative everything is good, I think they should remove install count metric altogether

[jaunty creek]

Yeah, since a certain ceo with that name likes to call game devs exactly that 😉

[native vortex]

Does the CEO of unity have go fund me page? id like to fund his third Yacht since i see hes struggling for more money with the new unity pricing

[tired hedge]

you use a for profit engine to make ur game then surprise they want profit. go rpg maker if u want cheap

[bitter tinsel]

That’s basically 70% of the discussions here since there’s no new updates

[bitter tinsel]

Yeah, Unity needs that money for constant improvements to the engine. It's stupid to think that any developers can't make their game efficiently and well without the unity engine. Godot doesn't even provide good UI or support. Unreal engine has its own flaws.

[tired hedge]

i measure success of game by how much fee u pay - only tru way

[weary oxide]

why dont we find good Solution for both sides why one have to fail

[foggy haven]

we'd just need to make the engine great so you want to use it and if you make a gazillion moneys we get to make the engine better for the ones who didn't make their hit game yet 🤷‍♂️

[bitter tinsel]

Some people argue that a 10% cut isn't too bad, and here's why. When Unity takes that slice of the pie, it's not just disappearing into thin air. It's actually going right back into making Unity even better. They're investing it in research, strengthening the platform's core, and cooking up new features. So, it's a bit of a cycle, you see? The money they get from us devs goes right back into improving the tools we use to build our games. It's like a mutual benefit, where that 10% is our way of ensuring we have access to a continually improving game development platform.

[icy roost]

to clear this up -- if you look at general financial reports unity makes A LOT OF MONEY but spends a lot on employees/acquiring new companies

[tepid spruce]

Exactly and they are complaining about 4%... 4% is more than fair it should be 10%

[bitter tinsel]

Yeah and the ENGINE is fricken FREE. I think they could easily charge like a $50 subscription per month for a Unity V2024 engine.

[tired hedge]

listen if u love unite u want them to be rich

[bitter tinsel]

If they did 10% i'd still go with it lol
This whole install count metric was silly though

[tepid spruce]

Exactly it goes to improving

[wary smelt]

You think the CEO of Unity gives a fuck about his employees.

This controversy has brought the selfish assholes out of the woodwork. Anyone who defended this isn’t someone to be trusted in the indie scene

[bitter tinsel]

Exactly. I would expect that if they did 25% THAT would be debatable. 4% SHOULD NOT be a something that we argue about. It's completely reasonable.

[tired hedge]

indie scene... my dude wut u mean - super mario maker dont make u part of indie scene

[limber widget]

true and the % increase can be accounted in the game price so the developer wouldn't be harmed by it, install fee can't be accounted into the game price because it is a magical unknown number hard to calculate.

[foggy haven]

unity never made a profit until this year, JR is paid in stock... and look at the stock 😐

[icy roost]

majority of the indie scene is literally glorified mario maker

[tepid spruce]

They should lower the threshold of the install count metric to 10k

[wary smelt]

I love it when fools resort to ad-hom attacks

[woven harbor]

Lets gatekeep gamedev

[subtle aspen]

I would happily pay for the engine, hell I would even be down for lowering the money needed to purchase pro

[native vortex]

if unity makes no money howa r u paid?

[bitter tinsel]

i dont think any invoice should rely on a metric which can be easily manipulated. It should be flat % of profit

[tired hedge]

indie don't mean using the worlds largest engine

[foggy haven]

yes, the original plan didn't work and we're considering the feedback

[bitter tinsel]

Honestly would be fine with price changes if they are only implemented a few years in the future and don’t effect already existing games that were made with the engine. Having a fee per install opposed to a percentage cut per purchase is pretty negative too.

[tepid spruce]

Just don't manipulate it dumbass

[wary smelt]

It does, and you are an uneducated buffoon

[foggy haven]

please talk to sales they'll be very happy to accommodate 😂

[weary oxide]

i just wish they bring plus back

[bitter tinsel]

? its not the company that will manipulate it, the metric is from users installing the game. And bad actors (users) are the ones which can manipulate it. Your the dumbass if you dont see this

[foggy haven]

never made a profit, not revenue- we still got funding from investors and the like but we need a more sustainable model, hence the changes

[bitter tinsel]

Think of the installation fee for Unity developers as a kind of membership card to a community that's all about making great games. Sure, it's a bit of an upfront cost, but it's like joining a club that's always working to make the tools better. That fee helps keep Unity up-to-date, so you're not stuck with outdated tech. Plus, it's like a vote of confidence in Unity's future. When we all chip in, we're saying, 'Yeah, let's keep this platform awesome.' So, in the grand scheme of things, that fee is a small price for the support and opportunities it brings to the table.

[bitter tinsel]

Awwww unity is taking 4% of your favorite unity developer's profits 😦 So sad, now they can only afford a 3 star michelen star restaurant every other week instead of every week

[subtle aspen]

so long as they're the ones capable of scrapping the entire pay per install plan.

[tired hedge]

"im an indie car builder who put some door handles on a pre-built porsche"

[jaunty creek]

That is assuming the money actually goes into improving the engine. Their track record the past years in spending money looks slightly less positive in that regard.

[tepid spruce]

The odds are unlikely you are just making excuses for not wanting to contribute money to the greatest game engine around

[wary smelt]

Some of you are enemies of game devs

[subtle aspen]

we get that, but per install was always a bad idea.

[tired hedge]

you gotta actually make a game to be a game dev

[native vortex]

|| some people are satire some people are shrimps ||

[bitter tinsel]

did you even read what i said or you just spouting some nonsense

[edgy remnant]

agreed john, they should have a fee from the first install to be honest, and no thresholds, lots of free games around an nobody is making money from it, charge 0.20c per install and see the cash flowing

[wary smelt]

Per install was never gonna work out. It’s only hurting the company

[vestal dune]

There hasn't been a smidgen of coherent conversation on this channel in over a week. I can see now why there's not an off topic channel on this discord

[slim bough]

Hey, regardless of what you are trying to expresss, Almost everything comment you’ve made comes off insanely aggressive and immature. Don’t you have anything better to do than pick fights with anyone who slightly disagrees about specific aspects of intent?

[bitter tinsel]

Every day they are working on improving the engine. It's not even a question. 20 cents is nothing, like be reasonable here

Someone can easily make a docker script to dl ur game 1M times and theres no detection in the world that would stop them. Stop being stupid

[jaunty creek]

Nice try.

[bitter tinsel]

Having one is fine in general. At the moment, it would not be wise to have it open

[weary oxide]

we just want every one to keep there jobs instead of destroying one side and keeping another like we have no choice

[tired hedge]

ppl get angry because they make no sense and are shrimps in whale world

[bitter tinsel]

20 cents per install is less than a quarter. You're in a first world country. You can afford it.

[agile spruce]

!mute 351078824659910656 1w Your insults and negativity won't be missed.

[vestal dune]

It's always like this

[tepid spruce]

Unlikely your making excuses

[bitter tinsel]

exCusEs

[slim bough]

That’s a very big slice of the pie

[tired hedge]

lets just stay on topic of price - the moment u make fun of someone what is the point?

[bitter tinsel]

I’m glad they at least announced that changes would be made and decided to listen to feedback instead of just changing the TOS and publicly announcing that afterwards

[bitter tinsel]

not if you're selling a high quality game where you can make the price above $30.... 20 cents would be nothing.

[agile spruce]

!mute 1041225675161485372 1w As I said, stop with the bickering and insults.

I'm going to get through all of these so I suggest anyone starts editing their messages now before I see them.

[tired hedge]

20cents shouldnt be a big slice of pie because these $1 games have flooded market and are low quality

[agile spruce]

I'm not going to tolerate this anymore. You're not children.

[bright island]

Hello! I'm probably asking an stupid question but, why they don't just charge a percentage of the game revenue?

[vestal dune]

Are you sure about that

[slim bough]

20c per install on top of various other things like steam’s 30% and taxes starts to add up

[bitter tinsel]

Sorry the guy was trolling badly

[sick night]

unity should just make games

[bitter tinsel]

Honestly, moderating this channel seems like it would be quite tough

[bitter tinsel]

If you just focused on making a high quality game instead of complaining about the pricing plans all day you could have made a game where you can SELL it higher and 20 cents for install fee is NOTHING

[tired hedge]

this engine single handley going to fix game economy knocking out all these low quality flooded games

[bitter tinsel]

So anyone can tell me about this price change leak? Does it mean unity wont bankrupt us? and just take a max of 4% revenue

[subtle aspen]

that's a question that's been going around since all this started, a lot of devs I've talked to or seen on social say they would be down for that, myself included\

[icy roost]

genuinely, the amount of time people spend on this channel instead of deving games is astonishing

[slim bough]

I don’t make games to sell money homie im going for non commercial government funding 👉👉

[tired hedge]

whats that even mean

[bright island]

It seems, from my perspective which is that of a total outsider, a very reasonable deal

[bitter tinsel]

Exactly, they complain and complain and waste all their time complaining when they could be developing quality but they choose to dwell in their own hatred and anger and take it out on Unity when they should look in the mirror

[bitter tinsel]

yeah install count metric is completely useless imo esp cause its derived from data sent by the end user/unity client

[bright island]

I give you the tools to make games, and you give me a percentaje of whatever you make with that game

[bitter tinsel]

Fr

[bitter tinsel]

exactly

[icy roost]

i feel as if complaining about the pricing plan is a mental cop out to deving games

[tired hedge]

its not just tools its support of tools, hotfixing tools, etc.

[subtle aspen]

per install is never going to work, there's too many unknowns for everyone involved, they have to change that aspect of it for things to start going right.

[bitter tinsel]

Complaining about a decision you dislike is fine as long as you’re constructive and have arguably reasonable concerns. Senselessly complaining about things isn’t a good idea though

[bitter tinsel]

They can easily prevent abuse. It's not hard to do that. Install fee is completely reasonable

[tired hedge]

so whenever some1 says well pay per month everyone say nooooooooooooooooooo should be free - no winnin with shrimps

[bitter tinsel]

• How can they detect VM's
• How can they detect cloud VM's
• How can they detect me writing a script which spoofs the variables to count the installs
  Yes it will never work

[bitter tinsel]

Not even a decision, a concept. I’m pretty sure they made an announcement because they want feedback

[bitter tinsel]

@agile spruce this guy has been talking about making scripts to abuse the install fees

[icy roost]

you can detect if something is in a virtual machine btw

[tired hedge]

same twitter talkin points every 10 mins

[subtle aspen]

I remember seeing on the forums pages and pages back, that they had just started working on how to detect all the various types of installs that could happen, this was like 2 days affter they annouced the plan.

[bitter tinsel]

You can also detect IPs, hardware identification, etc. It is EASY to determine if someone is abusing

[bitter tinsel]

Install fee isn’t reasonable unless you distribute your game somewhere like steam

[bitter tinsel]

yeah you can but lets put it like this. What if someone captured the packet/http call with wireshark which was sent to home to count the installs. Then spoofed the variables and repeated. This will keep incrementing the install count and its pretty easy to do so, even with different hosts using sock5 proxies

[bitter tinsel]

It would be on unity's end to determine that so it's not unreasonable

[agile spruce]

Nobody knows how Unity is going to track installs, or if they're ending up going that route. It's all just speculation, even planning on the how to circumvent.

[sick night]

and it's up to the developer to not use the software

[edgy remnant]

Correct, they can easily say if it's vm, or a bot, or the same suer just put a captcha when the game start, and 2 factors authentication with sms, and require registration to start the game, problem solved

[bright island]

From my perspective, the worst they decided, was to retroactively change everyones license, no matter if you "signed" to use Unity in the past with other rules than the ones they want to make now.
Let me op out. SOmething like "every game made from X version onwards should follow this license" where that X verison is one scheduled to release whatever date (1/1/24)

[bitter tinsel]

You can detect VMs, you can get hardware identification, IP addresses, so you can't just abuse the install fee. Nice try

[bitter tinsel]

That’s not a great response. Unity can technically do whatever they want but they’re seemingly open to suggestions and feedback

[bitter tinsel]

HWID can be spoofed, IP can be proxied through sock5

[bitter tinsel]

They can check for dns leaks to see if it's a proxy

Ill say it again and i have many times, if unity found a way to detect "legit" installs they have solved the piracy problem which hasn't been solved before. So if your that gulible to believe it then its not my issue.

[limber widget]

well no profit because revenue is fully reinvested into the company and in the increase of company value, a restructure is necessary but I fail to see how you guys believe the new pricing system will really help with that, I see more harm done to the company by it than anything else.

[bitter tinsel]

I’m assuming you’re suggesting having your game published on a personal website that has those features?

[subtle aspen]

exactly this, if they have figured out to tell if an install is legit or pirated, then they would be able to sell that tech, they would make more off of that than install fees.

[bitter tinsel]

It would have to be a check on unity's end. I highly doubt a random site would do that.

[foggy haven]

the original announcement was flawed and led to what may become harm, but more news is coming up soon

[icy roost]

uhhhh piracy is a whole different topic that no one was talking about in context of installs, you didnt respond to his initial response

[tired hedge]

complain just to complain helps no1 - what is alternative to fix company financials?

[bitter tinsel]

Its not though, this isn't only piracy its an attack vector on a company. You can bankrupt someone if you dont like them and they use unity

[weary oxide]

any chance for plus to come back?

[bitter tinsel]

So you’re suggesting that Unity itself would have things in their engine to detect those things?

[bitter tinsel]

Exactly, the unity team has to get paid too. So what they think they deserve all the money because they just made the game. They had nothing to do with the engine in the first place

[tired hedge]

yup like u want mcdonalds but no franchise fee

[bitter tinsel]

They can easily set it up. Before the 2024 planned pricing to take place

[edgy remnant]

Not buying weta and ironmalware would have been a good option, they cost the amount to make 100 unreal engines from scratch, maybe sell those company back? They should ask for a refund

[bitter tinsel]

@agile spruce this fella coolorphans really looks like he's here to troll just letting you know. He has no clue what hes talking about

[bitter tinsel]

Not necessarily “easily” if they want it to be effective (wrong reply but you get the point)

[foggy haven]

all the info will be available when the new announcement comes out, including what happens with Plus

[bitter tinsel]

How am I trolling? You just think everyone that disagrees with you is a troll

[tired hedge]

jay I hink oseel smart enough to make his own decisions dont armchair mod

[zenith echo]

Not. Even. Close.

[subtle aspen]

do we have a time frame on that annoucement?

[bitter tinsel]

Where are you IT credentials? Do you have a degree in fraud prevention? No. I don't think so