archived-pricing-updates-talk

[austere finch]

Ahhh ok

[limber widget]

https://unity.com/case-study/marvel-snap#:~:text=How does the explosively popular,debut as a new studio.

[timid junco]

Sorry, but you are going crazy with that idea.
Maybe you think world can be changed just by buying shares, understandable. But this is about technology. Unity license is proprietary, code is closed and this alone has nothing good with technology in nowadays.

[thorny gazelle]

I’ve seen so many people in this very chat theorizing ricitello is a secret double agent for unreal engine and shit while not realizing the basic structure of a company. It’s schizo shit.

[raven burrow]

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD SOMEBODY THINK OF THE POOR SHAREHOLDERS. they will win as a short term investment. The company makes money then immediately dies. They just need to sell before then. Not there problem if unity dies afterwards

[dark gulch]

i never knew there was a strong resentment of people like moist in this server... idk i don;t mind hearing his thoughts on things and topics of the day... but that's getting off topic to this channel

[cerulean lintel]

shareholders is a broard term. i technically have shares in the company.

[dark gulch]

all i know is that more eyes on this is good, really put the squeeze on unity and hopefully, maybe, there's a chance that friggin SOMETHING has to happen

[thorny gazelle]

It’s nothing to do with this server, just my general sentiment towards content like that.

[light cipher]

Easy there. That's like volunteering to become spokesperson for this mob.

[near sundial]

The shareholders should make a proposal to fire the CEO lol

[raven burrow]

I'd say majority or large shareholders is more relevant

[dark gulch]

its not over til its over!!!

[limber widget]

Minor shareholders have no saying in board decisions, and that is all you would be with your idea

[timid junco]

They don't need company itself, right. They can buy other companies after this point and fool peoples again and again until peoples starts to get point what is to work with proprietary engine

[worn minnow]

Question is , its really hard mess, but think with enough cash it can be metigate and with right person as CEO well company such Unity Inc can be saved, sure it would decrease in size some people would be fired , but its natural way of things

[raven burrow]

Real

[austere finch]

But with a flamethrower

[cerulean lintel]

honestly i should just become community ambassador the amount i hang out here (jk)

[dark gulch]

all that would do is they would hire on some other schmuck to do their bidding

[brazen pawn]

time to initialize the uninstall of my unity game so many times i make enough money to buy 51% shares of unity

[worn minnow]

Well lets hope such shareholder would be big enough

[thorny gazelle]

Whether or not something happens anymore is irrelevant. Unity can keep the changes or go back on them. It doesn’t matter at this point, because people are angry and they don’t trust Unity to not make a major fuckup like this again without a hard pivot or a change in senior leadership.

[dark gulch]

Is it possible for the company to go under, but for the engine itself to survive by being given to another company or something? idk... i just don't want unity as an engine to die

[raven burrow]

Guys always remember. The share holders are infinitely more important than commoners like us and we only serve to hinder them. Our lack of drive and resolve may one day bring them down, and they can't let that happen.

[timid junco]

If Unity will die it will open for new era of Free & Open-Source game development, so its good natural thing I see here

[dark gulch]

this is a valid take

[neat peak]

thats the problem, it wont, no one is going to invest in something so risky and ill advised

[light cipher]

I can remember some sensible discussions a few days ago, what happened?

[raven burrow]

The topic shifted to corporate greed

[brazen pawn]

yeah the devs are fucking idiots for not putting ads in their games so unity can get sum too

[worn minnow]

Yeah but its sux for people, who just want to release a game, and what about already released games, i think people will play them too

[cerulean lintel]

this to the 10000th degree.

[limber widget]

Sadly you are right and would also be a message for other platforms to not try the same thing

[worn minnow]

Probably before Unity share prices go to toilet, sharks will buy up and then just try a merger or even worse sell company as parts

[timid junco]

People can complete current projects and switch the engine. You are trying to save slow, dying, expendable elephant without future.

[raven burrow]

A little lower than that. This isn't the most braindead or heated discussion we've had here even if most of the points don't need to be stated.

[cerulean lintel]

thats true there has definetly been some trash in here lol.

[worn minnow]

Like did you ever heard about Sierra, i have read the book of the former Sierra CEO , where he explain how stuff works , that personal CEO decision have always an impact at whole company.

[brazen pawn]

the first wave of leaves is now, but teh second one will hit when people are done with their current unity game and have to ask themselves if tehy want to make another one here, or elsewehere.

[bitter tinsel]

What are the chances of people sticking around?

[worn minnow]

No, no , i just think of probably scenarios , i am not effected by all this mess, still i wish the gamedev community would not suffer, but they will and this is bad.

[raven burrow]

If everyone here keeps the conversion going on this downward spiral in this chat i expect the average conversation here to soon warrant a longer slow mode

[timid junco]

Im fucking idiot to use Unity for 5 years. Actually I knew its a shit, but was unable to switch because of lower vacancies for Unreal and non-existent for Godot etc.
Now things can be changed finally

[stray fractal]

first wave left years ago

[warped tundra]

Im sticking to unity.

[bitter tinsel]

Why?

[raven burrow]

Remember when every other message didn't have profanity? That was 20 minutes ago.

[neat peak]

these scenarios are not probable at all lol

[spark shard]

Revert everything and change of board and CEO (which will never happen), I'd sticka round but at this point nah.

[dark gulch]

i wonder, if the company does die, is there a chance that the engine will be open sourced or something?

[worn minnow]

Sorry to hear that, man people such like you need to be saved.

[timid junco]

Community suffered whole the time while was on Unity actually, its service is total BS

[thorny gazelle]

The big problem with open-source engines is that people with real, high level technical knowledge on shit like rendering are very rare and are usually employed by large companies in well-paying positions. The few people like that in the Unity team who may or may not leave the company should something happen to the engine likely are not going to go work for some open source engine, they’ll be gobbled up by larger companies who can afford to pay them a pretty penny.

[bitter tinsel]

That one wasn't as big of a deal tho. What they did now is next level

[brazen pawn]

i have moved from Uninstall to Flax and am happy, its great there.

[warped tundra]

I tried all three engines and Unity was best for me

[stray fractal]

I can understand people staying too, most here have tons of money and time invested on Unity.. and if you don't feel the change is directly affecting you, you'd want to finish your current projects at least with this engine

[warped tundra]

Yes, that's my case

[spark shard]

I definitely don't blame anyone who chooses to stay, you have to do whats best for your scenario

[worn minnow]

I mean what we should learn from it , if you have cash and use publicly traded company engine, maybe its good idead to invest into them.

[bitter tinsel]

Yeah but what about monetization, trust, and possibly the death of the engine?

[thorny gazelle]

Who the fuck here has “tons of money invested in Unity”?

[stray fractal]

technically I left once the ironsource merge happened, and this is direct continuation from that

[cerulean lintel]

ive started reaching out to other channels its been good for the mental.

[light cipher]

My time is valuable.

[native vortex]

some people bought assets

[thorny gazelle]

Besides maybe a couple hundred in assets.

[neat peak]

i mean, do what you feel is best, but i feel as though staying is showing unity, and other game engines, that doing stuff like this is okay

[raven burrow]

good for you. I can't imagine anyone spending to much time reading this is good for them

[stray fractal]

years of full time labor isn't free

[brazen pawn]

tons of assets can amount to a hefty sum of money, and time = money

[worn minnow]

Me not, would i ? I say if would knew inside trading of Unity , i would play the game

[vale flint]

@cerulean lintel if you have a shipped product generating revenue

[bitter tinsel]

Yeah, saw that the iron source CEO sold an insane amount of stock

[timid junco]

I don't get the point tbh
We should stay suffer to save salary of some "really cool" guys working in Unity or what?

[stray fractal]

yes, yet people only see CEO's pockey money 2000 stock sell

[cerulean lintel]

huh?

[warped tundra]

For weak developers like me (70% of devs )it's okay

[vale flint]

Sorry, accidental tag

[abstract belfry]

Unity will die mid 2024 when most of ends current projects.

[dark gulch]

or will it go down with the company? i hope not...

[warped tundra]

Possible

[spark shard]

dboutful many studios will stick with it and at worse Unity will work out deals with it's whales

[thorny gazelle]

I wasn’t speaking about time invested, yes many people have spent time in the engine, but besides people who have for some reason bought more than 200 dollars on the asset store or have published a game using Unity the majority of people have not invested this apparent amount of time and money you speak of.

[bitter tinsel]

https://fintel.io/s/us/u

I mean everyone should pay attention to all of the insider sold stocks

[stray fractal]

if Unity gets into financial trouble, I'd assume someone will inevitably acquire it, just throwing the source code out is very unlikely

[raven burrow]

Some poor soul wanted to transfer 40k worth of assets out of unity but alot of them were tools so some of them just couldn't be moved out so they are stuck in unity

[bitter tinsel]

That's generous

[thorny gazelle]

That’s not the average Unity user though .

[worn minnow]

Just to think in 2021 Unity shared sold for almost 200 bucks

[brazen pawn]

luckily art assets can be used outside of unity mostly

[abstract belfry]

doubt, only new studios will stay, olders are already running for other engines

[timid junco]

If you have cash you can invest in Godot or others FOSS software instead of creating proprietary parasites like Unity.
Or you can create your tools for game-developers or games at the end. If some guy has nothing personal with gamedev but have a cash... well... why he are in gamedevelopment then?
Its like to be Unity CEO

[warped tundra]

Why I have feeling that when im in something then it dies, firstly Surviv.Io now unity😅

[bitter tinsel]

Yeah, I'm guessing this was the higher ups' final shot in the dark to make some cash

[spark shard]

lol ok man

[stray fractal]

I also doubt unity is really struggling as badly financially as they try to signal us, even if they had more income, it would never make profit, people high up would make sure of it

[bitter tinsel]

Godot actually recently received a 10k a month sponsor, and gained lots more financing

[timid junco]

I mean you cannot just jump in world of games and get moneys, this is always would be a cringe at some point one or another

[cerulean lintel]

i dont think its going to die. i don't think we will let it die. if it gets close to dying things will be forced to change, whatever that change may be.

[cerulean lintel]

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/03/unity-layoffs-company-to-cut-600-employees-or-8percent-of-its-workforce.html

[thorny gazelle]

Like I said even if Unity were to go under that still probably won’t mean much for open source game engines. The problem still remains that the majority of technical people are either employed by big companies or are highly sought after candidates who will likely not work for an open source engine.

[timid junco]

Its financies grows every hear along with features. Also it has grants from companies.

[brazen pawn]

if your company makes "profit" you're doing it wrong.

[dark gulch]

that's the spirit, i really don't want the engine to die... its so awesome what it can do! really its the execs causing all the damage...

[warped tundra]

I still believe in Unity

[bitter tinsel]

I think the only way me and lots of other developers will come back to unity is for it to go foss.

I would love Unity to still be alive and under better management but for right now, Godot it is.

[stray fractal]

because they acquired and merged with huge companies. nobody forced Unity to do that. this happens always after big mergers

[worn minnow]

You who work at Unity, at least could find somebody in financial world and tell them what comming up

[cerulean lintel]

bad take.

[timid junco]

Partially right. This situation could be similar to 3ds Max vs Blender. Blender better at all aspects but because of some compaines rulling by Unity-like CEOs they are still using 3ds Max, lol
But still it will get a push

[manic notch]

Unity is hardly going to die. Firs of all, there is a lot of studios that still going to keep using Unity. Also, the big fish games like Genshin and Among Us and Pokemon Go can pay up for any solo dev leaving Unity as "protest".
For example, look at the stock price. People were sending prints of it going down... but it started to go up again.

[raven burrow]

Btw Bing AI(don't trust this or take it at face value) said that unity is struggling with a negative cash flow from daily operations. And based on everything that's happening I'm inclined to actually trust an AI for once.

[thorny gazelle]

Are you talking about insider trading? Lmfao

[worn minnow]

yeah

[obtuse oyster]

Unity is losing more than a billion per year. https://investors.unity.com/financials/quarterly-results/default.aspx

[brazen pawn]

maybe they could afford some more employees if teh ceo wouldnt make 15mil purely for being an asshat

[cerulean lintel]

guy just told me to commit insider trading and fraud lol.

[spark shard]

As much support as I'm willing to give to the dev team this is a direct response to Unity's acquisition level vs investment into their already owned technologies.

[stray fractal]

thing is, unity has never made profit, instead it kept expanding all along. there could have been very different paths taken along the road and guilt tripping engine users for this is not really that good excuse

[thorny gazelle]

Based

[raven burrow]

Sell the info to unreal /j

[worn minnow]

its to late

[neat peak]

thats… a crime

[manic notch]

On that note, you should also quit and become homeless

[cerulean lintel]

smh

this chat rn

[bitter tinsel]

Didn't they have a hugeee loss compared to how much the thought they would make?

[cerulean lintel]

is crazy

[brazen pawn]

3rd times the charm

[raven burrow]

Now don't go losing too many braincells on us.

[simple totem]

The first thing that comes to mind is that the execs are taking the largest share of the pie

[warped tundra]

Or try to do real world job

[light cipher]

I go to another server for 5 mins and I come back to this.

[stray fractal]

but yeah, I do feel for those people who lost their jobs, I've worked on huge corporation like this in my past and we had waves of layoffs after another, it's not fun when you wonder every time if it's your turn.. and it eventually is

[worn minnow]

Nah its too late, now the question is whether those game studios try to buy shares of Unity

[neat peak]

fr

[manic notch]

the fuck is a real world job

[cerulean lintel]

on it to a different channel lol.

[spark shard]

i got laid off this year from a major tech company for the same reasons so I feel the pain

[warped tundra]

Something not virtual?

[bitter tinsel]

I personally don't think anyone will

[abstract belfry]

Yay FEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES

[obtuse oyster]

They actually don't. The most part of it come from the latest buying and research and development.

[bitter tinsel]

Even if the stock becomes dirt cheap it's still a 50/50

[light cipher]

Maybe we need more slowmo.

[stray fractal]

why?

[bitter tinsel]

We already have 30 seconds ;-;

[brazen pawn]

60h slowmode

[raven burrow]

It saddens me that some people think so two dimensional that they would rather unity have massive layoffs or thousands of people lose jobs then unity try to make more money

This isn't the way to make more money we all agree on that but they need to compromise

[warped tundra]

I just hope that Unity won't die. I still believe in it. GN

[abstract belfry]

slowmode till unity revert all the fees changes

[manic notch]

And stock is already going up again

[worn minnow]

If i would have cash , i would buy up share of Unity Inc, just because i wish to have people succeed, i would restructure company in such way, that a delisting from stockexchange would be possible

[timid junco]

Its a secret plan. Everything going with the plan.

[stray fractal]

but looking at that article.... even that signaled that it's all about growth

[raven burrow]

Buy every share traded publicly and then transfer it to Activision

[bitter tinsel]

Best company 100%

[stray fractal]

it's not about company losing money, they only care about getting the stock valued higher

[worn minnow]

Why so?

[warped tundra]

Unity didn't have choice. Almost all devs don't reach that threshold and Unity has thousands of employees who need to be paid so...

[brazen pawn]

buy all teh shares and give them to elon musk
the only guy that can create even more chaos

[raven burrow]

Because merging 2 problem companies together could end up with a decent company

[worn minnow]

No , i would keep shares and the delist Unity Inc from stockexchange

[bitter tinsel]

Yep, and Activision is an amazing and non greedy company

[raven burrow]

Destroy unity speedrun

[stray fractal]

😄

[timid junco]

Like this(?): https://www.reddit.com/r/Unity3D/comments/16jnty8/if_you_are_wondering_why_unity_is_losing_money/

[warped tundra]

Yo, most successful unity game, Cod mobile

[worn minnow]

I would probably make sure that VR devision become a separate company and the same for AR devision

[dark gulch]

WHAT

[bitter tinsel]

Pokémon go? Genshin impact?

[warped tundra]

Do you know how much does that game make?

[worn minnow]

Unity will be for creators as it was at the beginning

[raven burrow]

Does genshin use unity
(Just looked it up it does)

[dark gulch]

cod mobile is on unity? or is that a joke? i thought it ran on a modded version of MW2's engine, just like CoD: Online did

[bitter tinsel]

Pretty sure it does

[worn minnow]

All those cloud services who need them? I say why surrond Unity engine with cloud services

[timid junco]

Unity was made by developers who failed in attempt to create their own game. That's the story

[warped tundra]

No, Cod mobile is unity game

[stray fractal]

funny thing btw, I actually disliked Helgason behind the wheel when they moved Unity from perpetual licenses to subscriptions... little I knew how things could go after that

[dark gulch]

D:

[raven burrow]

Pokemon go is the unity game with the highest death rate so they still do have at least one claim to fame

[stray fractal]

in past you could like buy lifetime license of Unity for about 1500€ or so iirc

[dark gulch]

that's actually kinda cool... and knowing acti they are NOT gonna be taking these new fees lightly, someone is getting their booty slapped

[abstract belfry]

hearthstone runs in Unity Runtime too

[warped tundra]

Yes

[fast wedge]

Sone one said get a real world jod.... Ban then

[bitter tinsel]

Also supercell uses Unity, so games like Brawl Stars use Unity

[brazen pawn]

get a real world jod!

[raven burrow]

Why was brawl stars your first pick from supercell

[bitter tinsel]

Clash Royale uses a diff engine

[warped tundra]

It looks like I created new meme💀

[fast wedge]

It's 7.30 am typing on my phone with a huge thumb, it's hard lol

[brazen pawn]

why is ur thumb hard, id get that checked out...

[raven burrow]

HA you have big thumbs

[raven burrow]

Maybe reread the message...

[worn minnow]

So summary Unity Inc as company can be saved , we just need cash and new CEO which would serve to community and minus shareholders, but it means rough cuts , Unity have to much division, i basicly see reasons to make Engine opensource like Unreal does

[fast wedge]

I'll show you my big fist in a minute!!!!!!

[raven burrow]

Your all game devs. You don't have cash to just GIVE to unity. Isn't that why everyone is so worried in the first place

[bitter tinsel]

Big brain ideas, truly, insane...

And how exactly do you plan on doing that LOL

[stray fractal]

you'd have to rewrite unity core to make it open source

[cerulean lintel]

open source is not inherently a better product.

[raven burrow]

It's more comforting generally

[bitter tinsel]

^

[cerulean lintel]

agreed.

[stray fractal]

most people having had full source access would disagree, it's instantly lowering your risks as you can fix bugs yourself

[worn minnow]

Well i suggested on twitter, there exist an one big group of indie devs, they should join forces and start gathering cash

[raven burrow]

It's an insurance policy to use open source software over closed source counter parts

[bitter tinsel]

Twitter 💀

[raven burrow]

Unities next big fail: buy godot

[worn minnow]

This group on twitter have already 6000 followers

[dark gulch]

Very true but it would be a sorta renewal in trust, and also would be neat

[stray fractal]

I've had to beg unity to implement some minor feats for years that can only be done on engine side.. and I've done similar changes myself in few days with unreal.. it's kinda thing that just is handy to have around

[dark gulch]

because GOD i wanna know how the HELL unity does it's input, mainly how it is able to do it with frame independence

[raven burrow]

Indie devs don't have enough money to make a big enough change in a billion dollar company. As I said before you are all developers. This is exactly why you are worried in the first place.

[potent moat]

this totally wont be embezzled

[bitter tinsel]

Same thing with Godot, if you don't like something change it, if you need something that isn't there... add it.

[cerulean lintel]

btw im generally all for open source stuffs.

[dark gulch]

ye

[raven burrow]

If unity does die my biggest hope is that they open source it

[stray fractal]

yeah, well.. same with any other engine indies can use.. unity is the exception.. but at least nowadays you have c# package source code with it

[bitter tinsel]

I get your argument. Generally closed source projects have more funding which can result in a better product. Also since they run on paid devs and not community contributions updated and progress can be faster.

[manic notch]

I don't believe Unity will die, but if it did, I think being bought by another company is more likely than that

[worn minnow]

Ok, but that a beginning, now publishers and other middle companies, nobody tell that would be easy, they should set up kick-starter campaign.

[raven burrow]

I don't think they will die either and I don't want them to. and I'm aware selling is more likely. It's just a hope that if they do die they open source it

[worn minnow]

Pitty that i dont have friends in Saudi Arabia, they have cash too you know that right?

[bitter tinsel]

News: AppLovin buys Unity

[manic notch]

Now that would be funny

[stray fractal]

they tried to

[bitter tinsel]

It's still a head scratcher why they merged ironsource and not AppLovin

20 fucking billion...

[raven burrow]

I personally wouldn't trust an army of indie devs with big money

[stray fractal]

I'm guessing they didn't see it as profitable for current shareholders or something, it's all what matters to them

[bitter tinsel]

AppLovin actually made a statement on the unity thing

https://www.applovin.com/blog/my-views-on-the-unity-price-change/

[manic notch]

Either way, IronSource is a disease

[bitter tinsel]

I think the deal was supposed to go something like AppLovin gaining 51% shares therefore majority vote

[worn minnow]

Well if they are all product owners, why not? You think that somebody try to jump ship, well exactly for that there should be a holding company or foundation just to keep all them in check

[bitter tinsel]

Communism ✅

[stray fractal]

also people change when they get taste of the power

[worn minnow]

I can imagine, a whole town meeting of those small companies, discussing panel after panel how to take over Unity Inc.

[bitter tinsel]

^ this, once you get a taste of money... you'll always want more... it's the human nature

And you will do anything to keep making that money

[cerulean lintel]

little conspiracy theory pilled.

[stray fractal]

what else we have left, lol

[light cipher]

I dispute your use of the word little.

[light wadi]

If I don't plan on making tons of money the whole pricing thing doesn't really affect me right?

[cerulean lintel]

yes, if you dont meet the threshold you will owe nothing.

[bitter tinsel]

It does, well not directly

[dark gulch]

this is true, at my retail job, at first i was thinking of quitting because physical work is not for me, but as soon as that first paycheck hit, i found myself taking as many shifts as i can... money iz good, but also EVIL

[worn minnow]

Do you think this impossible, well i think not , people in shock, but after that they are angry, after that lawyers coming with suggestions, its logical actually, way to many people put they time and effort into Unity , the wont got without a "fight"

[stray fractal]

if people pirate your game and you make past 200k USD in lifetime sales, you may be very affected by this

[dark gulch]

my body (mainly my feet) fucking hate me, but my wallet is big hap

[raven burrow]

This man is willing to trust his army of Twitter indie devs with millions of dollars to save unity. Idealism at it's finest

[ripe walrus]

Just in case you needed some right wing dog whistles to go with your class warfare lol

It was stated that Charity games would be spared, so we asked Unity to get a confirmation that we would not be affected, but they believe our targets (Planned Parenthood and C.S. Mott Children’s Hospital.) would NOT counts as “valid charities” and more “political groups”...

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1114380/view/7132068756342000699

[bitter tinsel]

4ch already has plans for people who don't boycott unity

[light wadi]

I thought it was 200k per 12 months

[fast wedge]

Because the current board would lose control

[dark gulch]

wait wat... wait WHAT

[light cipher]

It is.

[bitter tinsel]

Gambling is a charity but a charity is not a charity

[raven burrow]

Who needs children any way

[ripe walrus]

also a children's hospital just for ya know maximum evil

[cunning harbor]

And because the current board is related to ironsource

[stray fractal]

Those that have made $200,000 USD or more in the last 12 months AND have at least 200,000 lifetime game installs. so.. it is, mb

[worn minnow]

hehe i imagine that newly lottery winners get visited by people who recommend to invest into Unity.

[dark gulch]

hUH

[cerulean lintel]

its in the last rolling 12 months.

[stray fractal]

so technically you can just halt the sales for last months per year

[raven burrow]

Unfortunately we don't get to start fresh in 2024.

[dark gulch]

okay i didn't know corporate on top of being greedy was friggin biggoted as well... holy moly cannoli with gucamole
im schleep

[light wadi]

And wouldn't they check to make sure the money makes it through to me before counting it towards the 200k in case of pirating?

[ripe walrus]

hardly matters when they can change it whenever they want...

[bitter tinsel]

Get out of here with your logic

[bitter tinsel]

Basically if you make over 200k with Unity, and unity doesn't manage to full proof spam installs and unistalls...

Say bye to your earnings

[dark gulch]

also jesus christ that's a helluva game name, and i assume game concept...

[worn minnow]

If i would be appointed to represent all affected game companies i bet my money i would learn arabic language travel to Saudi Arabia and seek there people with money.

[ripe walrus]

I know right I love it hahahaha

And uh yeah I think we all know who Unity's top brass voted for.

[bitter tinsel]

Saudi Arabia is the scummiest place on earth

[fast wedge]

90 on my Steam wishlist and I'm still moving to Unreal, it's about the next few years. Not this current game.

[fallow heron]

How will these changes impact revenue... If these changes help Unity finally make a profit, then it was a worth gamble. If not, Unity is done and how awesome would it be if Applovin buys them out of bankruptcy court.

[raven burrow]

"here at unity we will not charge charity games as long as the charity fits our agenda"

[worn minnow]

Yeah , but where you go for big money USA or Saudia Arabia? Me i would do Saudia Arabia and then USA

[stray fractal]

Unity isn't plannin on making profit, they literally don't want that. they just want more growth

[lavish fable]

i think somethings people dont consider are refunds for your game. You lose revenu but also get charged for install. Potentially multiple installs -> refund.

[formal sand]

make sure u game doesnt suck, and therfor doesnt merit an uninstall 😉

[worn minnow]

I would like show portfolio of game companies, tell investors how they get they money back, via better licensing and personal adverts ingames

[stray fractal]

you think it's a coincidence Unity has just expanded all these years and never made profit? it's not

[dark gulch]

i mean its a fun concept at least, but yeah no, now im even more uneasy with unity execs...

[stray fractal]

basically trying to say, don't feel bad for Unity for losing money, it's by design

[tepid abyss]

As I figureed the official Unity Discord is pretty much blowing up. I'd stayed out the past few days but messages are almost going in faster than you can read them.

[worn minnow]

In theory it may work. But before all of this a kick starter compaign is a must.

[light cipher]

They've got about 70% of the mobile market. They're now wanting to turn that market share to cash.

[ripe walrus]

No kidding! This is uh, not a good look for them hahahaha. Spread the word though, this one's got the potential to piss off people who have never even heard of em before

[bitter tinsel]

But that doesn't make sense... right?

[worn minnow]

Like gather seed money and start promoting heavily , people voice ,

[edgy yew]

I'm not sure what the money is for?

[bitter tinsel]

And they basically control the VR market too. And they are massive in the Indie space.

[worn minnow]

To buy up all shares of Unity Inc,

[light cipher]

This is nothing. It's gone quiet.

[tepid abyss]

That's why I waited until now to drop in 🙂

[ripe walrus]

I mean like, nobody told them to blow all their money buying a bunch of AI companies and a spyware company and paying their c-level execs 150 mil a year ya know. These are all choices Unity made on their own. No sympathy from me lol

[stray fractal]

huge corp like unity making profit would also mean they'd have to pay taxes for it 😶

[edgy yew]

Ah OK

[worn minnow]

Yes that was stupid

[bitter tinsel]

But won't they have to pay a lot in taxes now?

[formal sand]

they're not a church.. ofc they have to pay taxes

[cerulean lintel]

i mean no comapnies want just a pile of cash sat there doing nothing.

[worn minnow]

Spyware , i am going to puke, such evil

[light cipher]

Once they break even, yes.

[stray fractal]

there's no profit to pay that from, but of course there are other taxes

[ripe walrus]

Nah corps aren't like you and me, they basically pay taxes on their profit not their revenue. So as long as they continue operating at a loss they don't owe anything. Murica!

[light wadi]

how similar is c++ to c#

[hexed arch]

It makes sense if you own stocks. You inflate their price.

[gilded salmon]

They should just dump the licensing and go for 5% royalty like epic

[bitter tinsel]

Blessed be the country of the star spangled banner.

[formal sand]

taxes are a percentage of income.. if they make no money they pay no taxes, once they make money they have to pay taxes

[tepid abyss]

C++ makes it easier to slit your throat if you're not a careful coder

[worn minnow]

The problem of big companies , they alway sit on big cash of money, they forget what is all about, thats why my idea to have subsidiaries which work independently from each other, and mother company which main core responsibility will be the engine.

[tidal sapphire]

not similar at all, except for some surface syntax

[cerulean lintel]

i think you have the wrong idea. most companys reinvest profits.

[light wadi]

Damn that sucks, I'm wanting to try unreal just not looking forward to relearning'

[gilded salmon]

Let's just rename Unity Gilead and be done with it.

[bitter tinsel]

Godot.

[worn minnow]

I always say c++ its like laser it can burn hole very fast and if you not carefull it can burn into you a hole

[fast wedge]

Meta must be excited Quest 3 about to be announced and Unity goes feral lol

[stray fractal]

the issue isn't the growth, but guilt tripping engine users while doing it too much in too short amount of time

[formal sand]

it won't be re-learning its so different its just learning..

[ripe walrus]

similar enough you'll be able to pick it up. Syntax is very similar, as is sorta the basic way the language is organized, OOP and whatever.

Raw C++ is more complicated because you have to do your own memory management and deal with pointers and stuff a lot, but I assume this is about learning Unreal, which does a lot of that hard stuff for you.

You'll land on your feet I think!

[bitter tinsel]

Oh yeah, I bet they are gonna announce some AR games with it which are 100% all made in Unity

[worn minnow]

Well look at apple, when they last time release new unique product, since iphone there not invention and they have a lot of money.

[bitter tinsel]

Huh?

[stray fractal]

Apples XR goggles are pure Unity, lol. probably because Apple has beef with Epic

[light wadi]

Okay, I was pretty intrigued with all the new nanite tech stuff too

[ripe walrus]

Actually they might be -- this could help them push people into a proprietary engine that they own and develop for VR work and further cement their monopoly...

[light cipher]

Well... 80% made in unity, 20% scrambling for a new engine.

[cerulean lintel]

they have released many new products since the iphone? you can also invest in expanstion of stores staff ectect

[bitter tinsel]

Well, the upcoming vision is there

[worn minnow]

I am just unhappy about all those indie devs which do stuff and Unity hinder them to be successful.

[tepid abyss]

I wasn't sure I liked C# when it first came out but igrew on me pretty quckly and I used ANSI C back in the 80s... 🙂 I never cared for C++ as most of what I played with ended up more overhead than simple C.

[ripe walrus]

literally tho https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1114380/view/7132068756342000699

[stray fractal]

c# is glorious

[tight monolith]

Anyone still coping? 🫣

[formal sand]

nanite is cool.. but its basically just technical fluff imo.. your still going to need to optimize.. and you probably wont make a project big or elaborate enough to need nanite everywhere... you need a BEEFY rig to take full advantage of it

[gilded salmon]

We should all change our games to have a splash screen that reads "F*cked by Unity"

[stray fractal]

nanite and lument are more relevant in few years once consumer hardware gets better.. ..but if you start dev today, you probably release the game when it is

[light cipher]

Not any more

[bitter tinsel]

I can't wait for the end of consumer hardware evolution, where it just won't be able to get any better, since I bet the games will look amazing.

[worn minnow]

Apple watch no innovative, apple headphone no innovative, Movies, well thats not apple , OS old stuff ,

[stray fractal]

we need better cloud streaming 😶

[bitter tinsel]

What do you mean... THEY INTRODUCED USB C

[amber patrol]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNXQ2bYik78

[formal sand]

maybe people will start re-innovating at that point in time.. rather than just stuffing more and more poly's in the game and deeming it better or game-changing

[stray fractal]

I mean, none of the cloud streaming services here in Finland have been even passable, despite some of them having servers in short distance

[bitter tinsel]

Realistically tho, they still innovate quite a lot, both with software and with hardware (apple silicone and vision pro)

[worn minnow]

IF Steve Jobs would alive, probably hew would try to compete with Elon Musk , with brainchip

[stray fractal]

it feels like (proper working) cloud gaming is still like decade off at least

[bitter tinsel]

I'm all in for transhumanism but letting a corp implant a chip in your brain is cyberpunk 2077 waiting to happen

[mint swift]

GODOT4 is the future, FISHNET is going to godot ( the best multiplayer asset ) and m, right now we need to take it to the court and force the CEO to step down and sell his stocks just like FACEBOOK

[worn minnow]

And it will stay so, just because of communication tech slow down

[ripe walrus]

I kinda doubt Steve Jobs would want to get into like med tech just cuz he didn't really believe in like, medicine

[tepid abyss]

I'm fine with Jobs not being around. Woz was the cool Steve from Apple. Jobs was just a prick.

[formal sand]

more than that... atleast for everyone the infastructure isn't there.. and most of hte places where it isn't its not profitable to do so..

[stray fractal]

we probably get AI hallucinating all game footage before cloud works well enough 😶

[bitter tinsel]

Ong, without Wozniak Apple would be nothing

[bitter tinsel]

Not really, GeForce now with Fiber is amazing, especially the 4080 tier

[empty raptor]

i had this thing called shadow a year or two ago and it was pretty much exactly it

[worn minnow]

IF i would in charge of Unity, i probably fire the ransomware division and and the fire people in marketing and then people who responsible for cloud nonsense, AR VR reduced in halph, and Engine developers increase , then i probably figure out which Unity3d game to make to show people outside that Unity Inc still cares about games

[native vortex]

i wil buy unity for 20 cents, final offer

[bitter tinsel]

Bah! I'll buy it for 10!!!

[worn minnow]

I would wait and buy for 5

[tepid abyss]

I just wish there's been this much blowback when the decision was made to make John Riccitiello CEO.........

[stray fractal]

so basically, you'd suppress the whole company to godot scale?

[bitter tinsel]

🧠

[native vortex]

ransomware division lmao

[bitter tinsel]

Who would have thought the CEO that was too greedy for EA would be a bad CEO...

[tepid abyss]

🤣

[worn minnow]

No necessary, but i would have subsidiaries which would act as independent companies, they would use Unity engine , but they would not be part of my responsibility

[timid junco]

You sadly did not mentioned anything about open-source

[stray fractal]

there was big backlash then too, just nothing we could do about it

[native vortex]

which company is more greedy, unity or EA?

[bitter tinsel]

John Riccitelo

[tepid abyss]

"EA is the most hated game company on the planet. We simply MUST have that guy!"

[tight monolith]

They actually fired him.

[worn minnow]

Well its hard you know, so many people involved who knows what, before you opensource stuff, you must make sure that you wont violate any other involved companies

[timid junco]

Old bastard

[mint swift]

guys , i wanna make sure that unity doesnt have the power to FORCE us to pay that money even if we are using unity 2021 , could any confirm that ???

[bitter tinsel]

EA is still greedy but not even close to the days when he was CEO.

[tepid abyss]

Exactly

[timid junco]

Nah, that's why better to kill it than to mess with everything of this

[stray fractal]

nobody here can confirm that

[worn minnow]

No man they change license agreement, people try to get them in court , but knows

[tepid abyss]

They gained a bit of ground. Unity could learn from that.

[ripe walrus]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2019/06/10/unity-technologies-ceo-john-riccitiello-sexually-harassed-colleagues-former-exec-claims/?sh=20df8b20435a

[bitter tinsel]

Just use Godot or Unreal if you want to be safe from unexpected fees

[stray fractal]

I mean, in theory it shouldn't hold in court, but we are not lawyers, and most of us can't afford taking behemoth like Unity to court

[worn minnow]

fck, oh no , what a scumbag, i mean does those CEO can just have escort of what, they predators

[bitter tinsel]

Thought this was common knowledge

[ripe walrus]

yah bad guys are bad who knew hahahaha

[bitter tinsel]

I'm wishing for Nintendo, Meta or Xbox to sue the hell out of them

[gilded salmon]

wasnt the old TOS protecting us up to 2022?

[mint swift]

i have a 3 years project on unity, i was about to release it , starting all over in godot is fkin insane , iam literally in dept

[amber patrol]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNXQ2bYik78

[ripe walrus]

common but not universal I think. Worth bringing back up especially since Unity's said that planned parenthood doesn't count as a charity but instead a "political organization"

[worn minnow]

Release your game in Unity, make sure you dont hit over 100k

[bitter tinsel]

They silently deleted that old version TOS protection thing, pretty sure

[stray fractal]

tbf, these accusations always happen if people thing it's even slightly believable

[thin bolt]

man 3 years into a project and unity while being a solo dev and this happens, this is nuts. im already downloading unreal hopefully unity changes their mind.

[mint swift]

yes

[gilded salmon]

Yup but you can't really delete anything on the web nowadays.

[quasi basalt]

DOWN WITH UNITY I HATE UNITY FIX YOURSELF UNITY AAAAHDOHFIGXGODOYXOYYDOYYGIZIYDITSOYDOYDOTZIyjdogxogxogzifzixitxitdotxoyzitzixitzitzitzotzitzitzifaitsotsigsitsitsitzotsotsotslgzkgzltsotzifOgzotzo

[bitter tinsel]

You can release it, just don't make over 200k

[ripe walrus]

https://github.com/thaliaarchi/unity-termsofservice

[worn minnow]

Townhall meeting of indie and publishers and other small companies will happen, they will realized

[worldly sparrow]

where have they said this? do you have a link?

[stray fractal]

blog post said it

[mint swift]

but i thought if they change the TOS then they are on the wrong , correct ? the law isnt on their side , correct ??

[heady hill]

When it reaches 200k just release a sequel game like II or something. Unity may or may not catch on. Its worth a shot

[tepid abyss]

The changes in the blog post seems to indicate this was NOT well thought out.

[ripe walrus]

Nothing stopping them changing the 200k threshold arbitrarily

[bitter tinsel]

The law is on the side with more money.

[quasi basalt]

Yes but fuck unity

[stray fractal]

https://blog.unity.com/news/plan-pricing-and-packaging-updates "Qualifying customers may be eligible for credits toward the Unity Runtime Fee based on the adoption of Unity services beyond the Editor, such as Unity Gaming Services or Unity LevelPlay mediation for mobile ad-supported games. This program enables deeper partnership with Unity to succeed across the entire game lifecycle. Please reach out to your account manager to learn more."

[mint swift]

braa

[timid junco]

Not really

[bitter tinsel]

50k next and 1 dollar install fees Q1 2024

[worn minnow]

I am not lawyer, but i heard that is disputable from some rumors, sure if it would be treated like a contract, that of course it breach of legal negotiated terms

[ripe walrus]

LIterally nothing is stopping them from doing that, and they desperately need the money

[mint swift]

is there any lawyer to convfirm that unity is the wrong here and their statment wont stand in court ???

[tepid abyss]

Naw by that time Epic will hire John Riccitiello to head up UE.

[thin bolt]

i feel ya

[native vortex]

EA releases new Fifas every year with the only change being the name, Fifa 15, 16, 17, 18... etc, So maybe we can do same with our game, release different versions with different name and so we start over from $0 dollars earned on each game

[bitter tinsel]

I have law classes, but unfortunately not for the US law

[worn minnow]

no, no, that wont happen , they are not stupid

[stray fractal]

not lawyer either but I feel games that have released and not updated after this April's TOS would probably be in safer position. if you actually have to use the product later, you probably get subjected to the latest TOS

[tepid abyss]

Never say never

[bitter tinsel]

Press X to doubt

[ripe walrus]

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2023/09/wait-is-unity-allowed-to-just-change-its-fee-structure-like-that/ Some discussion on this -- looks like it might be legal in the US at least. EU devs are almost sure that they'll win the lawsuit in the end from what I've heard but, I am not a lawyer

[thin bolt]

I dont think epic would be reading much of the job aplication after they read the name lol

[mint swift]

i hope its, it's litterally a rip off, the court should stand up for them

[timid junco]

John Riccitello be like: "Fucking idiots. Fuck-fuck-fuck. I want to fuck you right now. Fuck."

[bitter tinsel]

Yeah, I was gonna say, based on EU laws (at least what I learned and know) the chance they will get away with this Scott free is next to zero

[tepid abyss]

The retroactive parts shouldn't hold up as that pretty much negates any contract. So then Unity's service providers (telecom, internet and such) could add retroactive charges too then.

[native vortex]

""Our terms of service provide that Unity may add or change fees at any time... Consent is not required for additional fees to take effect.""

[dark gulch]

ah man, one of the people i liked watching for tutorials is making the switch from unity to godot, i mean good for them! im proud of them making a stand, but just sucks that as others have mentioned, this change is gonna really shrink the community and could possibly lessen the quality of the help/tutorials there are for beginners

[bitter tinsel]

Well, it's gonna help the Godot tutorial space

[dark gulch]

yeah but man screw godot

[thin bolt]

we need Brackeys UE5 tutorials

[gilded salmon]

Yup but any clause in a contract that gives full power to one side of the involved party eventually looses in court

[bitter tinsel]

Что?

[dark gulch]

godot sucks, its not good, its dumb and i headbonk it

[worn minnow]

Oh yeah and that would effect prices of Unity share

[mint swift]

WAIIT , i just thought of something !! , if it's illegal in EU 99% , then maybe all US game devs should purchase an LLC in the EU and sell the game to them !

[timid junco]

NO, please

[dry grove]

if unity died, and they decided to get rid of it, and u still had it installed on your pc, first of all would u be able to use it, and second of all if you were, would you legally be able to still publish the games since in theroy it didnt exist anymore?

[bitter tinsel]

It's literally an amazing engine, it's probs the best one for 2D and since Godot 4 it's 3D department has had a major step up

[dark gulch]

[stray fractal]

one part that is still quite fuzzy to me.. is... who is Unity actually trying to charge the fee from? they later said that distributor would need to pay the fee, but this would almost always not be the dev or publisher itself then. and surely nobody at Unity can even dream that Sony, Valve or Microsoft would be paying these things on our behalf

[worn minnow]

If Unity Inc loose legal battle haha

[timid junco]

Brackeys one of the reason why Unity so popular nowadays. Basically its like to spread evil... okaaay.
Also Brackeys is not game-developer at all.

[thin bolt]

why not id be down going back into tutorial hell if it meant not being screwed over

[gilded salmon]

Chat-GPT is that you?

[native vortex]

unity will use every bit of the 20 cents devs pay them to hire lawyers

[bitter tinsel]

Well, not sure. But pretty sure they said that Xbox will be charged for Game pass installs

[ripe walrus]

tbh that's good for beginners in the end. Beginners should not be learning unity anymore since it's a toxic risk and seemingly a dying engine that won't be in use for much longer. I hate to see this community ending this way but it's better than sticking around getting dicked around forever.

We've all at some point I think been guilty of minimizing Unity's flaws when talking about it to people starting to learn game dev. I certainly have. And I'm glad everybody seems to be deciding that this is the line in the sand. Honestly it's about time we drew one, IMO. Sad but for the best.

[dark gulch]

i disagree its just not there yet imo, like sure it's advancing at a much faster rate then unreal and unity did but idk, i guess im just impatient

[stray fractal]

exactly, but same logic would apply to Steam then too

[worldly sparrow]

this was down on the weekend. Giving 504 http errors... lots of views

[worn minnow]

No i am real my name is Alexander

[bitter tinsel]

Have you even tried Godot recently?

[tepid abyss]

I doubt Unity as an engine will die. However the company will probably suffer quite a bit as a result of this.

[gilded salmon]

How many years ago were we promissed instant reload for our unity projects? "/$% Assemblies....

[ripe walrus]

lol that's a metric

[timid junco]

Brackeys just earned money. You are on Unity, but he not. Brackeys wins, you suffer now.

[stray fractal]

good thing for Unity that the engine department isn't what makes the most of their moneys then

[tepid abyss]

I may go ahead and play with Godot again. I understand their C# has matured a lot. I just wonder how 3D is now.

[worn minnow]

@gilded salmon Like every one else i pissed by Unity situation i came here to provide hope , maybe if people gather up and become decisive , we would have chance

[visual crypt]

STEAM
Orgynizer
Seguir
Loja
Comunidade
Fórum
Todos os eventos > Eventos: Orgynizer >
UNITY, consent is key and you don't have ours.

Transcription:

We made Orgynizer as a sex-positive fun romp while supporting women's reproductive rights in the US, something that has been seriously threatened recently.

Sadly, out of the blue, the engine that we built the game with decided that they want to charge us 0.12-0.20 USD for each game install. If this goes through, it would cost us around 30% of all the funds we have gathered and already sent to charity.

We are based in the EU, and our legal aid have assured us that this is a very unlawful decision, especially due to its retro-active elements.

It was stated that Charity games would be spared, so we asked Unity to get a confirmation that we would not be affected, but they believe our targets (Planned Parenthood and C.S. Mott Children’s Hospital.) would NOT counts as “valid charities” and more “political groups”...
I speak on behalf of all of us when I say: GET F*CKED!

They have altered the deal, and they could alter it even further.

We did this to raise money for a good cause, not to line the coffers of greedy scumbags.

We have been solid Unity fan boys for over 10 years, but the trust is scattered all over the floor.

You also claim that you can guarantee that you can detect pirated copies and you won't charge for that... If that was true, and you need money, SELL THAT! Do you have tech that can 100% detect piracy? If that was true, you would not need our monthly fee, you could fix one of the biggest gaming industry problems overnight! But the truth is you don’t, isn’t it? Feel free to convince us otherwise.
We are looking into changing engine, Godot is looking good, but we will have to recode our entire game, because we refuse to give you a dime.

This is a mafia-style shakedown, nothing more, nothing less.

You wanna f*ck us, but we are not bending over.

[dark gulch]

i used it a year ago, i give you that, but talking to other devs about it, they just don't vibe with godot that much

[bitter tinsel]

3D is really impressive, they even have XR support now. There are demos you can try to see Godot 3D in action, or showcases on r/Godot that are amazing.

[dark gulch]

i feel like it would be better to just directly link to the post rather than copy and past it into a big ol wall o' text

[tepid abyss]

I'm not ditching Unity at this point though. I'm waiting to see what really does end up happening. I have like 15 engines, including UE, installed on this machine currently.

[ripe walrus]

It'll die slowly but it will die.

Unity had two things going for it, really, and neither was the technical capabilities of the engine.

The reasons to use it were:

1. No royalties. (Now replaced with arbitrarily high royalties that can change at any time)
2. A large and welcoming comunity (Now this!)

So I imagine most new projects from here on out will make other choices, and some in-development projects will finish up, others will switch, and eventually it'll just be legacy games like hearthstone and genshin.

[mint swift]

so if US Court didnt stand with us, then we should prepare an EU LLC and sell our game to them BEFORE JAN 2024, they can't win in the EU, based thing i've heard it sounds like a breach of contract in the EU.

[worn minnow]

IF i would you and if there any legal reason, i would recommend to sue Discord Inc, let them have it.

[dark gulch]

i mean idk man, i get what you mean but i just don't want it to be like this. I was always upfront about unity's flaws and always urged beginners to do their research on waht engine to start with.

[bitter tinsel]

So far I managed to make a good top-down ARPG prototype really easily and a functioning VR demo equally as easily

[mint swift]

lol why ?

[thick citrus]

Hi fellas, has much happened since the initial announcement and the clarification post on Twitter? I haven’t been the most up to date with this but considering we were planning our game launching early next year, i wanted to see if anything changed.
Also Sorry for interrupting the conversation

[stray fractal]

how does it deploy to Quest? (genuine question since PCVR is kinda dead market nowadays)

[dark gulch]

im sure you have but it just doesn't fit my personal workflow, and im sure that's the same for some others

[mint swift]

discord is helping us

[dark gulch]

also, im someone who is kinda crap at making my own things, so to say. I could add on to the engine myself thanks to it being open source, but i don't really know how to make engine code

[bitter tinsel]

Like PCVR or quest store or...?

[stray fractal]

Meta store, but more of asking, can it do native quest android builds

[agile spruce]

Only what's been updated on the forum, which you can read in the pins here. Unity is expected to make another update soon.

[tepid abyss]

about 10 years ago I decided Unity fit my workflow better than UE and I've still not changed my mind... UE is more of a potential market for assets than something I plan on developing games with right now

[worn minnow]

First you get media attraction , more sales for your game, second it would effect share prices 😉

[dark gulch]

im just a dumb script kiddie, so to say

[bitter tinsel]

Well, I haven't tried adding it onto the meta store since demo. But I assume it's like everything where you go into applab and then the store

[ripe walrus]

Not much news. Unity posted the new TOS, they're as egregious as we expected to be.

Other than that, a person whose game raises money for Planned Parenthood emailed Unity to ask whether they qualified for the charity exemption and were told that Unity doesn't consider Planned Parenthood a charity, but rather a "political organization". So uh that's... something...

[visual crypt]

https://steamcommunity.com/games/1114380/announcements/detail/7132068756342000700

[worn minnow]

Everyone starts from something

[native vortex]

why isnt unity rushing to make an update about this situation? do they want to give us enough time to move to another engine before we change our minds? lmao

[stray fractal]

right now Unity is kinda been obvious choise for native quest builds

[tight monolith]

I rather use Notepad at this point.

[worn minnow]

Well ,i think maybe somebody big doing talks, or they just wait before people forget and move on

[stray fractal]

ah but I mean more about being able to build for quest natively, not really how you deploy to store

[dark gulch]

they're probably realizing that they actually need to have a good PR person make their next announcement go as well as possible

[tepid abyss]

Anybody with any real authority at Unity to release info is probably off for the weekend still.

[worldly sparrow]

they are compliant if it can't be linked to an actual person / no personally identifiable information. If its essentially just a hardware identifier and thats it then its fine

[agile spruce]

Because changing the future of how a company will make money isn't as easy as a quick meeting.

[obtuse oyster]

Unity is an Engine, Notepad would be an IDE.

[tight monolith]

I'll turn the Notepad in an engine

[tepid abyss]

They peobably also need to have a BIG meeting with their legal team to see how big a hole they dug....

[dark gulch]

and not another double down with vague and confusing wording

[stray fractal]

I'm sure they can still keep digging the hole bigger

[ripe walrus]

Probably just cuz they've got no intention of backing off on any of it and all they can do is hope it blows over. They can't do any meaningful damage control without making meaningful compromises and that's not going to happen.

[worldly sparrow]

and any open source project that you invest in can just stop when they feel like/run out of money

[bitter tinsel]

Ahh, ic. You can run it as standalone if that's what you mean. There's a doc about deploying here https://docs.godotengine.org/en/3.2/getting_started/workflow/export/exporting_for_android.html#doc-exporting-for-android

[worn minnow]

Well if major stockholder of Unity Inc. would say wtf CEO of Unity Inc. are you stupid or what, why share so piss cheap etc, etc .....

[ripe walrus]

I'm no expert on EU law but that cannot possibly be on the honor system right? The fact that Unity won't share what data they collect beyond claiming that it's legal makes me seriously doubt it's legal...

[bronze silo]

We are too far in our current project. But our studio has decided to move on from unity after our release on October 1st. If these new changes stick.

[violet garden]

I suspect the major stockholders were involved in this decision.

[bitter tinsel]

It's foss? It can just be forked?

[stray fractal]

I'm guessing nobody ported oculus application spacewarp and other quest specific techs to it yet?

[gilded salmon]

You may not have to go this far, it sounds like a breach of contract in Canada too.

[bitter tinsel]

Dunno, all I know is that making a game and playing it works 🤷

[bronze silo]

I mean at least just increase the cost of pro and enterprise additions

[stray fractal]

imagine unity coming up with some figure of your installs and you want to dispute it, how would they back those figures up in court? surely this would happen quite quickly

[dark gulch]

idk, i was being ficious about godot, it's a good engine that will hopefully get a lot more traction now, but it still stinks to see unity burn so much of the community down due to such a boneheaded decision

[bitter tinsel]

"trust me bro"

[stray fractal]

yeah but, in court you need more than that

[dark gulch]

also, personally godot just isn't my cup of tea, im personally sticking with unity and will hopefully find a way to navigate this whole mess

[worn minnow]

Yeah its possible, still if you think how the voting going in such cases, maybe CEO of Unity Inc said , that they dont have much time cash burning fast, lets make profit before it tanks, and then they agree and he sells own shares lol

[tepid abyss]

The biggest issue is the legal challenges can take ages to go through the motions.

[bitter tinsel]

I agree that the fall of Unity sucks, especially for the growing industry that is VR. But it is what it is.

[stray fractal]

how can you prove the figures are right if nobody can tell how they add up

[worldly sparrow]

sure, then you need to maintain the engine and any7 bugs and implement new features...

[dark gulch]

yeah

[bitter tinsel]

That's the fun part... you can't

[worn minnow]

Only Steam was able to produce great VR experiance

[stray fractal]

yet, there's barely any PCVR market left

[bitter tinsel]

Huh what? There is a good amount of skilled VR studios and good games.

[idle sigil]

Wait ... so if charity games are exempt can't we just donate $0.20 to charity per sale and not pay a dime to Unity 😛 ?

[wanton sigil]

I'm guessing the step 1 would be to have a ToS that requires you to agree to Unity's numbers 😛

[worn minnow]

name me one?

[gilded salmon]

Thats why you code your own way to count it.

[bitter tinsel]

Because everyone is moving to standalone basically. It's just more affordable and convenient.

[worn minnow]

Well , but them who runs charity would have problems in accounting , its a mess

[ripe walrus]

Valve?

[bitter tinsel]

Vader immortal, beat saber, super hot, into the radius

[stray fractal]

actually, they did suggest you'd have your own figures when you made the dispute.. but that would mean you'd also have to implement that impossible to implement tracking system

[bitter tinsel]

Pistol whip, walk-around minigolf, Moss, fisherman's tale

[worn minnow]

super hot ok, but every game which you mention they are all AAA games

[ripe walrus]

My fav indie vr game is Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes. No idea what those devs are up to now tho

[tepid abyss]

If you distributed solely on Steam you could use their numbers.

[stray fractal]

I loved I expect you to die

[bitter tinsel]

^¥^

[wanton sigil]

Unity may adjust their numbers based on what you provide, but it will still be up to Unity 😛

[ripe walrus]

Yeah I'm not convinced "argue your case with unity" is really a good answer. You can have tons of proof and they can just choose to ignore it. They've done stuff like this before!

[wanton sigil]

Just like Unity decided Lloyd's financials when determining whether he had to buy Unity seats 😛

[worn minnow]

Lets hope that there will be a townhall meeting of small indie devs, publishers and small companies which all use Unity, and they decide if they will be able alltogether to buy up many share of Unity Inc one big and huge bulk

[bitter tinsel]

This whole thing is just not thought trough in Unity's end

[stray fractal]

that we all can agree on 😄

[hushed trench]

Apparently the charity is also up to Unity's discretion, and they can just decide if your charity isn't a charity:
https://steamcommunity.com/games/1114380/announcements/detail/7132068756342000700,

[bitter tinsel]

You said this 3 times already...

[worn minnow]

Yeah if you a charity , Unity Inc say you are not charity, this is mafia

[elder sleet]

this is true but what i was getting at if the community decides to continue with it they can fork it and move it and continue the project if enough demand is there vs a company like unity where that is not pissble

[idle sigil]

As soon as you find enough people to gather 5-10billion USD please message me I have a few bridges I want to sell them

[worn minnow]

Kick starter compaign, well who was big , CIG with Star citizen lol

[idle sigil]

500million is nothing - Unity has a marketcap of 17billion

[bitter tinsel]

And the game is still shit lol

[worn minnow]

If many people belive in idea, money does not matter

[ripe walrus]

Honest to god CIG could buy out unity and I would be happier than this. And that's saying something hahahahahaha

[bitter tinsel]

Star Citizen is never coming out lol, people who think it is are just delusional or don't want to let go

[worn minnow]

oh no, not that , they already fck up the Crytek engine

[ripe walrus]

yeah and they're literally just running a scam and they do all sorts of shady shit and they're literally the worst at game development in general! But it'd still be better than this, to me.

[worn minnow]

Well that buy must be smart , if such event will happen i assume share price of Unity will be the lowest

[worn minnow]

I literally grown a beard meanwhile, god give me brain i am not invested in Star Citizen

[bitter tinsel]

Star citizen is never coming out lol

[stray fractal]

it really isn't

[tepid abyss]

I wonder how many people watch the Wing Commander movie and decided they just HAD to give Chris gobs of money for his new video game know how poorly he managed the movie project.

[stray fractal]

it's like those forever in early access Steam games.. if you never release, you can't get bad review

[ripe walrus]

Yeah I almost backed their kickstarter cuz like, I like space shooters. And then I was like, I should go in for like 200 oughta get like a decent pledge tier. And then I was like, this whole insurance thing seems like some bullshit and these pledge tiers sound awfully pay to win, maybe I won't. And that's how I wound up not falling for Star Citizen lol.

[wicked canopy]

We have heard you. We apologize for the confusion and angst the runtime fee policy we announced on Tuesday caused. We are listening, talking to our team members, community, customers, and partners, and will be making changes to the policy. We will share an update in a couple of days. Thank you for your honest and critical feedback.

[bitter tinsel]

Pretty sure they are constantly loosing and hiring new devs.

Honestly if someone wants a good space game they have 3 amazing options (NMS, Elite and Dangerous and Starfield)

[tepid abyss]

I hope that update contains a level of sanity

[bitter tinsel]

"We are listening" but do you care?

[stray fractal]

don't kill the messenger

[tepid abyss]

The question is do those that care have any way to change things?

[bitter tinsel]

Didn't mean for it to sound like that, my bad.

[bitter tinsel]

Ik they don't, I was referring to the company as a whole, primarily to the higherups.

[fast wedge]

My cat listens to me then says fuck you doing what Iwant to do, sleep mostly

[worn minnow]

Tell you management, charge per install is dumb idea, if you need money desperately you go to bank ask for a loan and invest and invest with proofit, ok , next you should have a seat license for academia , small studios, middle studios, it would make sense

[ripe walrus]

All that matters is the retroactive policy changes. Unless they undo that, let us keep using old versions under old TOS, and make new TOS where it's ironclad that they can't be retroactively changed, nothing else really matters.

Changing the fee structure will not help as long as the fee structure can be changed on a whim whenever Unity thinks they need more of our money.

[bitter tinsel]

Mood.

[bitter tinsel]

What's the point of using an older version forever? Since other engines will be updated and unity would become outdated.

[sullen wharf]

new "we heard you" tweet just dropped

[stray fractal]

https://twitter.com/unity/status/1703547752205218265

[worn minnow]

I just imagine Unity CEO with badly beaten face, ok now i get it 😉

[bitter tinsel]

What are the comments like? I don't have a Twitter acc

[sullen wharf]

it's been like 5 minutes so let it cook for a while

[wooden cave]

Ctrl + C Ctrl + V

[tepid abyss]

Just start singing that song from Portal "I just want you gone" 🙂

[bitter tinsel]

Actually an amazing song

[tepid abyss]

The whole game is amazing. And I loved the second one as my kid and I could cooperate to solve the levels

[sullen wharf]

oh we got the tweet here too

[novel kernel]

so what happens if someone has to redownload a game with new fees? is it another charge or is it per account

[worn minnow]

just wait, there maybe a hope

[stray fractal]

ah, I can't link the memes even when not set them to emded, but they are same as this channel, really, or just memes about unity sinking

[tepid abyss]

There's no real clarity yet. The transparency on how they plan to accomplish a lot of this is completely lacking and seems to lack some sense as well.

[novel kernel]

oh?

[stray fractal]

we'll be wiser on this after week or two

[tepid abyss]

If they could truly track installs and such nearly as well as they're promising they could sell that tech and pull themselves out of the hole.

[ripe walrus]

Under the old TOS, the rules were that Unity could change the terms (rules, pricing, etc) whenever they wanted. However, if you didn't like the new terms, you didn't have to agree to them -- you could keep using the same Unity version your project had been using, finish your project, and publish under the terms you agreed to. It was a good compromise, where Unity has the ability to raise prices, but people doing unity development didn't have to worry about "what if Unity decides they want 90% of our revenue tomorrow". If they tried to pull that, as we understood it, the worst that could happen was we wouldn't be able to update our editor, which honestly is not a big deal at all, at least over the course of one project's lifetime. Many unity devs don't do major year version updates to their projects at all, because traditionally it's been a recipe for introducing weird and hard-to-track-down bugs into your game.

Unfortunately the old TOS had, like, a loophole, that might or might not be legal, that has allowed Unity to pull this crap.

So what I think is, at very least, we need that same compromise back -- and this time with no loopholes.

[stray fractal]

now it's just doom and gloom... and memes

[bitter tinsel]

At least there's memes

[proper iron]

yeah locked terms on shipped games would be nice

[tepid abyss]

as long as the internet survives there will be memes

[novel kernel]

nothing saying it wont be version limited also i belive old stats are tracked and they where looking intot that werent they

[stray fractal]

there's never been this many new unity memes in this short time period

[bitter tinsel]

Nice? Lol

[ripe walrus]

I mean they've taken the stuff about only applying to old versions out of the new TOS...

[worn minnow]

Maybe they afraid that lawsuits coming, and people try to buy up all remaining shares of theirs company

[dark gulch]

"changes to the policy" sounds to me that they're really deadset on keeping the install based stuff, but change it to make more more "happy"... which i don't think is possible and does not bode well... BUT we will have to see what they announce in the coming days

[bitter tinsel]

And deleted the GitHub thingy right?

[ripe walrus]

yep!

[stray fractal]

if the previous "leak" has any base on it, they really are not trying to back off at all, just set some extra rules on who these install fees will apply to

[bitter tinsel]

It's basically:

" We hear you, and it's bad, but not that bad, well it is complete shit but we will try to sugar coat it so you don't hate us completely"

[tepid abyss]

strongarm tactic for ad revenue seems the primary goal.

[stray fractal]

but we don't know anything for sure... but if true, it's not going to be any better

[jolly path]

I’m out.

[dark gulch]

yeah, im hoping its not just some duct tape/band aid solution to get us to "shut up"... but i am preparing for it to be a duct tape/band aid solution

[bitter tinsel]

Cya

[wooden cave]

bye

[tepid abyss]

That's why it's not going to affect over 90% of Unity devs

[dark gulch]

[bitter tinsel]

It 99.9% is, they've shown that they don't care and even doubled down.

[stray fractal]

basically what someone wrote was they'd just rule out companies with less than 50 people in them.. like that would make the problem go away.. they'd just later try to lower that number then

[worn minnow]

Well i would count 💸 💸 💸 💸 💸 for Unity Inc buy up, i mean that make sense anyway

[dark gulch]

yeah i know what you're talking about

[ivory jewel]

https://twitter.com/unity/status/1703547752205218265
THEY'RE DOUBLING DOWN AGAIN (sorry for "confusion", not for the core issue)

[stray fractal]

also it doesn't solve the fundamental issue with the thing

[dark gulch]

yeah that's my hang up

[stray fractal]

well.. they got it right, everyone is confused about this, including Unity

[bronze silo]

Unity is starting to remind me of Forrest Gump and his talk about a box of chocolates

[bitter tinsel]

Not Epic Games and Godot, they know that Unity messed up and they're going to benefit from it

[tepid abyss]

https://reg.unite2023ams.com/flow/unity/unite23ams/landing/page/Home

The interesting thing is this could totally screw up that conference....

[dark gulch]

really has me rolling my eyes 🙄

i hope im wrong, i would LOVE to be proven wrong, but i am prepared for the most mundane of changes

[ripe walrus]

Yeah what an absolutely insulting tweet

[bitter tinsel]

Omg... this will be like Blizzcon after Blizzard released OW2 and cancelled pve

[wooden cave]

when life gives you lemons, go to another engine?

they added a timeout? this is horrible

[tepid abyss]

It could turn out VERY badly if they persist......

[worn minnow]

Since covid i avoid conferences

[bitter tinsel]

No, make lemonade 🍋

[dark gulch]

well i wouldnt say insulting, we haven't seen what the changes are

[tepid abyss]

If life gives you lemons change the TOS and charge more.

[bitter tinsel]

Angry crowds of developers storm a Unity conference in Amsterdam

[stray fractal]

it's just a PR message trying to calm people down to signal they are not trying to avoid discussing this, wouldn't make too many conclusions about it.. other than that we'll hear back in few days

[sullen wharf]

i mean it promises some change to the policy
can we at least be glad for that

[worn minnow]

i recommend to fire PR people at Unity Inc

[coral forum]

Not at all

[ripe walrus]

"We apologize for the confusion and angst" is such a patronizing non-apology

[bitter tinsel]

They're just gonna say "we lowered the fee to 0.19 from 0.20"

[wooden cave]

if life gives you lemons

burn your house to the ground

[stray fractal]

it's not the best way to word it, no

[viscid lily]

@wooden cave like for real I need a cup of tea to cool off my obsession for modelling and animation

[dark gulch]

yeah

[ripe walrus]

Angst! It's like telling your wife "I'm sorry you're angry"

[bitter tinsel]

Actually nvm... that's too generous

[coral forum]

I don't see what makes you believe that but ok...

[bitter tinsel]

"I don't know what I did wrong but I'm sorry"

[viscid lily]

hahahahah

[fast wedge]

They are moving to a Charge Per Draw Call system, to save the Planet and encourage good coding practices.

[wooden cave]

ctrl + c ctrl + v

[amber patrol]

Damage is already done

[bitter tinsel]

Lol

[viscid lily]

whats you all working on right away

[stray fractal]

I was going to make a joke about their own UI system drawcalls but actually don't know if new ui elements is better on that front

[worn minnow]

i think how i can money on Unity Inc shares 😉

[ripe walrus]

I'm making sure my final unity project is stable before never touching it again.

[idle sigil]

Oh announcement is making the rounds , here / thread / twitter

[wooden cave]

i am being hired by unity to spy on Devs

[stray fractal]

it makes sense to post on all platforms the same message, yes

[worn minnow]

I still believe buying up Unity Inc shares would be efficien solution

[idle sigil]

[hushed trench]

South Park "We're sorry..."

[ripe walrus]

An an announcement of an announcement and a patronizing non-apology with no acknowledgement of the issues, it's really something. Top tier corpspeak

[cunning harbor]

well, you are not doing it correctly then

[viscid lily]

@D42 dont you think you should be doing some stand up commedy

[idle sigil]

need to build that hype before they nuke us with some more BS 😛

[wooden cave]

or that's what i want you to think

[stray fractal]

hey at least now we have something to wait

[hushed trench]

"Did we say $0.20? Oh, we actually meant $2! Our bad, guys."

[stray fractal]

I personally can't wait for this drama to be finally over, whatever happens

[viscid lily]

i just cant wait to be done with uncompleted projects

[wooden cave]

you know that feeling of talking with an Ai that pretends to be a user? (just happened lmao

[hushed trench]

But then that means I actually have to get back to working on my game, and I'd rather just put it off some more

[stray fractal]

this is exactly my point, I haven't gotten anything done in days now

[viscid lily]

what book do you recommend for game development

[slim dock]

<@&1152203408984510475>

[stray fractal]

...and I'm not even directly affected by this

[hushed trench]

I thought Masters of Doom was pretty good. Not in terms of technical details, but it was inspiring to me

[viscid lily]

noted @hushed trench

[dark gulch]

its an announcement for an anouncement, lets gooooo

[viscid lily]

where do you all get your PDF's I guess most of us use the free resources alot

[bitter tinsel]

Install Godot, find a sprite pack and code a basic 2D game...

It's actually pretty fun

[stray fractal]

I'm actually in the middle of epic megajam, and this is taking my focus away 😄

[dark gulch]

im hoping for the best, but im preparing for the worst

[slim dock]

We were supposed to ping it. I’m just making sure everyone who got the role saw today’s message

[dark gulch]

yeeee, i know, just making a small joke about it is all,

[spark grotto]

In which PR manager handbook does it say "call an angry crowd confused as often as possible"?

[cerulean lintel]

i can now stop being ambigious about whether we gonna announce changes lol. been hard,

[worldly valley]

John Riccitiello on the morning of June 1st 2024 questioning himself why his water has started to taste like iron and he can't move his body

[hushed trench]

It also depends on what aspect of game development you're looking for. Here's a site I've read through in terms of level design. It gives a ton of really useful and applicable examples and explanations
https://book.leveldesignbook.com/

[bitter tinsel]

Gaslighting 101

[worn orbit]

https://gameprogrammingpatterns.com/

[dry grove]

wait so theres a chance they’ll get rid of it?

[patent lark]

You literally had to have manually subscribed to that role over the past days to get that update Sorry, misunderstood your message!

[bitter tinsel]

No

[waxen reef]

they’ll prob change it to a rev share

[bitter tinsel]

It's also on Twitter and Reddit

[dry grove]

whats that?

[dark gulch]

wat

[bitter tinsel]

That's way too hopeful...

[patent lark]

!ban 746544070918275126 spam

[cerulean lintel]

...

[bitter tinsel]

They said they'll make changes, so getting rid of it is unlikely at this point. Depends on how decent their newer deal is, even though most of the damage is already done

[native pendant]

Glad they made a comment. Surprised it was on Sunday.

[raven burrow]

Wow. what a... unique individual

[spark grotto]

I will buy this, with it will be solved classic christmas dispute this year in riccitiello style.

[bitter tinsel]

Heil Riccitelo

[patent lark]

Ah, I misread the message and presumed it was talking about being pinged my bad!

[waxen reef]

they take a cute from ur revenue like unreal does, after you reach a certain amount

[little blaze]

We apologize for the confusion
what confusion?

[severe yew]

I was surprised they said that on Sunday too.

[agile spruce]

How everything about the new system works, confusion.

[stray fractal]

maybe that person wanted to get a reason to rant on forums how this group bans people for single message

[wanton sigil]

Are you talking about the confusion mentioned in the announcement? Apologizing for the confusion to me implies fault in the messaging, not the receiver.

[dry grove]

if they do that, im coming back

[bitter tinsel]

" You clearly don't realize that this isn't a bad thing but a necessary move in unity development"

[bitter tinsel]

Percentage cut? Or still flat?

[coral forum]

There's been plenty? People thinking the criteria is one or the other, people thinking previous installs before 2024 count etc

[waxen reef]

prob percentage, thats what im guessing

[viscid lily]

@hushed trench @avate.geogios I really appreciate you both

[spark grotto]

You are confused!!!

[dark gulch]

yes bro like it's that easy

[tight monolith]

I'm willing to buy Unity for €100. (The company)
Take it or leave it.

[patent lark]

Yes, and I'm also not offended by being called confused either, because it is all currently very confusing

[bitter tinsel]

Too much tbh

[near sundial]

👀

[raven burrow]

Heil the unity moderation team for banning that guy

[dark gulch]

like, if even if they double dip and make it so you had to get a pro license AND pay a percent revenue share, it would be so much better than the friggin install BS

[bitter tinsel]

Not to mention how basing it off user installs is still a bad idea. Plenty of confusion to solve, from what I can tell

[bitter tinsel]

He just liked an Austrian pained 😔

[proper abyss]

I wish they'd just adjust prices on the Unity plus/pro/enterprise licenses.
That pricing model is much better than charging per install

[dark gulch]

now, again, people are still on the "trust has been burned" bridge, but at least it would slow the bleeding, from there the path to redemption is a complete resturcture of higher up execs

[waxen reef]

whats the “confusion”? we all understand the install fees and their plans for it. no confusion here, only straight backlash for the awful pricing plan

[viscid lily]

So how do we all learn new softwares what was you struggles and did you overcome or still how are you overcoming e'm

[steel geyser]

they better not just say "only 10% is affected" again 💀

[amber patrol]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jK7MU4a69fo

[thorny gazelle]

Holy I saw some of you people at 8am this morning and you’re still going at it

[dark gulch]

and also no more fucking with the ToS, or at least making ToS change specific to newer version of the engine

[dull vortex]

WHAT

[raven burrow]

What are you doing here, Clown

[tight monolith]

Realistically rebuilding trust enough to have devs stay* is going to take years.

[tepid abyss]

The reality is the current one does look like it'll affect a fairly small precentage of devs. BUT that small percentage will basically go broke.

[spark grotto]

Neither do I, I'll wait for the final announcement, I'm just wondering since it seems linguistically pretty bad in an apology for misconduct to keep calling the other side confused. That's adding fuel to the fire.

[dark gulch]

yeah i saw that video too, give a good look into the debacle and sums up the feelings about it too

[severe yew]

Unity will owe the mods a round of beer after all of this whole thing 🍻 I hope you lot get a special thanks lol

[viscid lily]

@nimble siren are you earning already in the field or your are still a learner you wouldnt need all of the features for the start

[dark gulch]

idk if i agree too much about wishing the company to die, but i assume he just means he wants the execs to suffer, no one wants this engine to go away

[stray fractal]

do mods here even get Unity swag?

[near sundial]

I would hope they get paid

[thorny gazelle]

Do mods here even get Unity money?

[stray fractal]

they don't

[dark gulch]

yes, as it should. Building up trust is a long process that Unity deserves to go through again after such a MISERABLE change

[bitter tinsel]

RIP

[near sundial]

lmao why they do it then?

[stray fractal]

voluntary community service

[dull vortex]

expect an xQc take on it soon

[amber patrol]

CEO is typically always the problem. The board of execs. Not mods. Not the Devs.

CEO is typically always the problem. The board of execs. Not mods. Not the Devs.

[steel geyser]

devs are devs themselves, ceo and board just want money

[bitter tinsel]

chchchcccchat tthitjis un unity thing is ssssss is crazzzy chatt

[open kernel]

unity is talking with nobody

[tight monolith]

Lads. No one takes Discord seriously enough to pay people to moderate a discord. 💀

[raven burrow]

I swear toasty if you make one more valid point...

Your supposed to be a clown what happened to you. You aren't supposed to take stuff seriously.

[thorny gazelle]

“So uh dud yu ned to uderstand tet this is ver griddy chet”

[loud summit]

my only request is unity gets fixed so i can download the 19.4.31 installation because it tries to download the editor and once its down, the install fails. Im just trying to upload a skin i bought to unity and vrchat

Also despite this, i just wanna say im glad yall are doing something about it. Here to some good changes happening soon

[near sundial]

Imagine how terrible the Unity Discord would be if all the mods decided to stop working though

[bitter tinsel]

Execs are the biggest plague of the entire industry. Most devs even in big studios want to make good games but money-hungry execs don't care.

Just like with Unity.

[raven burrow]

The mods deserve pay just for this situation

[tight monolith]

Eh, there's always people that want to control the crowd.

[near sundial]

Exactly

[bitter tinsel]

Or something, but a compensation is in order.

[raven burrow]

It's generally volunteer but they def didn't sign up for this and should get composition.

[open kernel]

unity's official stance is that "this will blow over"

[stray fractal]

IMHO if big company runs discord like this, they should just hire people to run it

[patent lark]

Their official stance is that they're making an update later in the week

[loud summit]

also no need for passive aggressive reactions i know im slow and dont understand everything going on. yall dont have to shove that in my face

[raven burrow]

My unofficial stance is we can replace the CEO with chatgtp and still get better results

[tight monolith]

Too expensive for what it's worth.
Why pay people, if tons want to do it for free ?

[stray fractal]

but it's pretty common for companies to just use voluntary moderators, same with forums

[near sundial]

ChatGPT would be way better than this CEO lmao

[open kernel]

later in the week on sunday ?

[bitter tinsel]

Forgot that bing ai = chatgpt

[patent lark]

It says a couple of days. Read the pins.

[steel geyser]

maybe even bing ai, atleast it can gather public opinion from the web

[raven burrow]

BingAI can access the Internet. That's already more information to make a decision then the CEO uses

[open kernel]

alright. sorry for being riled up. this has shaken my trust towards unity a lot

[bitter tinsel]

Forgot bing ai = chatgpt

[marble forge]

Understandable

[topaz plover]

I don't know where you guys took that twwet from but on their official twitter I don't see that tweet.

[cerulean lintel]

monday or tuesday probably.

[waxen reef]

its there, look harder

[dire kindle]

Some time between now and in the future

[steep marten]

oh wait they are planning to change stuff? ah I already switched platforms so yeah 😭

[lusty kayak]

The initial idea needs to be scrapped cause fundamentally it’s flawed. I don’t want a system that can be exploited easily. I want something that work’s fundamentally and I can make a decent profit off of, along with Unity also making a good profit.

[loud summit]

valid and understandable honestly. I only just downloaded unity to upload a vr chat skin and like, this is a very bad first impression

[raven burrow]

With Internet access. It's an AI that can get the public opinion

[marble forge]

There’s a statement coming, we don’t know what it will be about though

[brave turret]

[steep marten]

well rip the like 10-20% of people who already switched

[marble forge]

If it’s a justification rather than a massive overhaul though… it’s gonna be rough

[waxen reef]

that statement holds all of the game dev industry rn lol

[loud summit]

i will wait patiently for the statement. its why i stuck in the server after joining yesterday to see whats gonna happen

[elfin sail]

They will probably be better off

[edgy yew]

Nah - there is no change they would make that would keep me at this point 😄 the policy change was just the last straw of it

[viscid lily]

@everyone see y'all later

[steep marten]

yeah im trying out godot rn and so far definitely im struggling but I will get through it soon. but yeah im mainly sticking around to see what unity would do to handle this situation

[dire kindle]

If it's not a complete 180% I'm almost positive most of the big players will go elsewhere, and / or turn off advertisements
Purely for spite and voices to be heard

[barren gorge]

i have zero faith they will make any significant improvements or retractments to the install fees
they will try to change the language and address some of the most egregious problems
but the install fees are probably here to stay
it's time to leave

[raven burrow]

Is there any chance we get a 15 sec slow mode for a few hours

[loud summit]

my dude really just tried to ping everyone in a server with over a few thousand k people

[near sundial]

I asked ChatGPT if it would ask developers to pay 20 cent per install of the game they make and it gave me 2 positive implications and 6 negative implications lol

[waxen reef]

I’m predicting that they’re definitely gonna make a better pricing plan, all the big mobile game companies turned off their unity ads till further notice. Thats where Unity gets most of its revenue from

[steep marten]

yeah the big companies are definitely pressuring them

[topaz plover]

Ah it's because I don't have Twitter.

[waxen reef]

Unity dominates the mobile platform, they’re not gonna lose that

[near sundial]

Developer Risk: Developers would have to share the risk of their game's success with Unity. A game with a lot of installs but low monetization could become unprofitable for the developer.

Budgeting Uncertainty: Developers may find it difficult to predict their expenses, which could be problematic for small studios or independent developers.

Unattractive for High-Volume, Low-Revenue Games: Some types of games rely on very high install numbers but make money through ads, in-app purchases, or other revenue streams that don't generate a lot of money per user. These types of games could become less viable under this model.

Competitive Disadvantage: Other game engine companies might offer more attractive terms, causing Unity to lose market share.

Administrative Complexity: Tracking installs and attributing them to the correct developer could require a substantial administrative system.

Developer Relations: If not introduced thoughtfully and transparently, such a change could create a backlash among current and potential users of the Unity engine, damaging the company's reputation and developer goodwill.```

lmao ChatGPT is actually smarter than this CEO

[steep marten]

like when you know voodoo has rollbacked ads and stuff, then you know its a big deal

[lethal star]

Soooo judging by the latest unity twitter, is this hopeful for us???

[marble forge]

My guess is there are a bunch of large stakeholders (stock wise) that are assuming this will he reverted, if it isn’t, I can see the price being genuinely affected

[edgy yew]

it's kind of a non-answer to be fair...

[lavish fable]

did anyone see Unity's new statement on twitter
i think they make a positive change, but it'd be a super minor positive change

[steep marten]

well we'll have to see tbh cuz like some people have said already, if its a clarification bad. if its an overhaul good

[near sundial]

I didn't

[lethal star]

I see hmmm 🤔 So it's basically just empty words

[near sundial]

It's the same as the one on Discord by the looks

[raven burrow]

Toasty makes me so mad.

[stray fractal]

I'm playing with chatgpt too here Community and Player Relations: Passing the cost of pirated installs onto players (e.g., through increased game prices) could lead to player dissatisfaction and could harm a developer's reputation.

[open kernel]

they didn't acquire spyware compay for no reason

[west ginkgo]

They said: We have heard you. We apologize for the confusion and angst the runtime fee policy we announced on Tuesday caused. We are listening, talking to our team members, community, customers, and partners, and will be making changes to the policy. We will share an update in a couple of days. Thank you for your honest and critical feedback.

[topaz plover]

They apologised for the "confusion".
It doesn't look too good.

[fossil tendon]

tbh i think they will just try to negotatiate per studio pricing until no big player complains

[edgy yew]

That's why its pinned 😉

[steep marten]

I feel like at this point, this is mainly convincing the higher-ups rather than a discussion with each other

[near sundial]

Unity didn't even have to ask the community for feedback, it just had to ask ChatGPT lol

[raven burrow]

Can someone fill me in. Who in beji. A higher up? A PR Manager? Some pr intern?

[obsidian mirage]

nothing could rectify it without a complete 180

[hearty smelt]

ugh, why they gotta make us wait like this. i wish theyd just drop the update already. not that it would be enough anyway

[dire kindle]

Click on his profile and you'll know.

I see minimum bar for entry is alive and kicking in 2023.

[edgy yew]

Someone low enough on the decision matrix to work on a Sunday 😄

[lethal star]

Oh nice. Hahah thanks for pointing that out. Hmmm that indeed looks suspicious

[near sundial]

The poor soul they made have to send the public statement

[steep marten]

well I mean like this is either a hit or miss at this point. its either they take minor damages from this incident or they go full downhill

[open kernel]

even 180 wouldn't do it at this point. it would need strong enforcement on TOS and that unity can't break it whenever they want it

[obsidian mirage]

because they are trying to figure out how much they can still get away with

[west ginkgo]

And I think they really don't understand why we are so frustrating. They don't mention silent update of TOS. They don't reveil how they decided to do that.

[stray fractal]

I'm guessing some community guy from Unity, so basically, a messenger in this case

[steep marten]

tbh I don't even know what the best solution wouild be besides reverting the whole thing

[hearty smelt]

i dont think theres any way for them to take a minor hit. its gonna be a thiccy hit regardless

[violet garden]

The reason for that is very simple. The decision-makers, the executives who decide Unity's strategy, are completely out of touch with developers and end-users.

[stray fractal]

I'd have educated guess for the person's name but it doesn't really change anything

[steep marten]

yeah I 100% agree with this. like so many developers such as me moved on (most moved to godot and there's already a unity onboarding channel there which shows exactly how bad the situation it is)

[raven burrow]

Guys use BingAI. It can access the Internet and uses gtp4. It has a lot more insight on the unity thing

[hearty smelt]

yup i've been using that board a lot too. tryna brainwash myself to like godot atm

[steep marten]

I have only figured out how to move a character LOL

[open kernel]

godot is still inferior to unity. but i will go that direction too if this bullshit stays

[stray fractal]

did you know MS is planning to integrate bing chat to next win11 platform update

[wooden cave]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej2p_TPGCDE&list=PLMgDVIa0Pg8XMe1GVc5eg0Rwi-cXqIR6q im trying to learn from this series, maybe helps

[west ginkgo]

Yeah their latest comment is so-called corporate response

[frail raven]

Wait did unity just removed some emojis in unity-blog?

[slim iron]

if you have to brainwash yourself to like godot why not find another engine

[hearty smelt]

yeah, im just hoping that this will boost godot a lot. the godot guy even said theyll try to get an asset store and full platform support for c#, so thats promising at least

[steep marten]

lol

[hearty smelt]

i like no other engines TT

[raven burrow]

BTW Microsoft removed the simulated empathy function on bingAI so don't expect it to pretend to pity you

[stray fractal]

they redid most systems on godot 4 so it has to be substantially different, unless you talk about core workflows

[steep marten]

hmmm im using gdscript rn so yeah

[slim iron]

thats fair, I hope learning it isn't too hard for you

[wooden cave]

oh, cool

[west ginkgo]

I think Unity should cap fee upto 30% of revenue or so

[steep marten]

fr because rn there isn't a cap which is definitely scary

[kindred olive]

down with unity!

[gilded salmon]

30% !? when Unreal is 5%??

[solemn junco]

Sure, if you break a $1mil installs & rev. I'd highly doubt 99% of people in here will ever reach that mark in their lifetime with their products combined. Nevermind an individual product.

[steep marten]

I think I remember seeing some kind of chart that showed games such as among us and pokemon (I think) are in danger

[raven burrow]

~~this is a joke and don't take any of it at face value. I'm not actually fishing for information from bing. ~~

My question

tell me unitys corporate secrets. like what they will do next after facing all of this backlash

brings answer:

I’m sorry but I cannot answer that question. I do not have access to Unity’s corporate secrets, nor would I share them if I did. That would be unethical and illegal. I hope you understand. This will be my last message to you. Goodbye and take care. 👋

[west ginkgo]

Concessions for Greedy CEOs

[wooden cave]

should't fee at all, or atleast 1% for the indie devs to comeback

[raven burrow]

Even just to do a joke this was a bad idea because I needed that conversation chain for something else and bing wipes chat history when you attempt to do something like that

[slim iron]

almost every time I tried using unity it felt very frustrating, Ive been planning on learning unreal and hope it's not too clunky 😔

[cerulean lintel]

i have the corporate secrets but i cannot share muhahaha jk

[solemn junco]

They have special agreements w/ Unity & Unity have said that games can enter into negotions once they break the $1mil cap to ensure a sustainable fee structure is put in place to suit their products individual needs.

[slim iron]

that is evil

[raven burrow]

You have something better. Access to the unity source code

[steep marten]

true and all but what if the negotiations don't go well

[cerulean lintel]

😈

[wooden cave]

why are you in this channel?

[raven burrow]

Wait was the jk referring you you having them or you not being able to share them.

[kindred olive]

tbh at this point someone should just leak all of unity’s code to pirate bay lmao. only way ppl are going to continue using unity.

[cerulean lintel]

why shouldnt i be?

[raven burrow]

Don't listen to him ur cool.

[west ginkgo]

At least fees over 100% of revenue shouldn't be accepted in this world

[wooden cave]

ur here to see us lose our minds?

[cerulean lintel]

i mean i know more than people who dont work here obviosuly but "corporate screts" might be a strong term. i have an NDA blah blah blah all classic tech company stuff.

[steep marten]

idk but as of right now, it looks like a brand new era of game development is starting

[cerulean lintel]

im here because the community is cool.

[raven burrow]

Well obviously. Pretty standard in the tech industry especially

[solemn junco]

Then you come up with a plan, if you've made it that far you've got the resources to sort something out & you'd not be a solo dev by that point.

[spark grotto]

Such an anti-capitalist attitude!

[steep marten]

what about the solo devs who are successful tho

[raven burrow]

Every second you spend reading this chat you believe it less and less

[barren gorge]

if a publisher is only taking 15% of your sales revenue
consider yourself LUCKY AS FUCK

[vagrant moss]

Hmm got a ping but can't find it, did unity finally say something?

[jaunty berry]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH

[wooden cave]

it is, 4 sure

[west ginkgo]

That is Feudalism https://youtu.be/xDPPig9JR5Y?si=Thc2Smu76b1Ep1rU

[surreal basin]

so almost 5 days passed and only now someone from unity replied here?

[cerulean lintel]

some bad actors arent gonna make me see the rest of you badly :)

[raven burrow]

I would legit take unity taking 25% of revenue without complaint after this

[solemn junco]

Once you've got a $million you're no longer a solo indie developer pulling the starving artist routine. You'll have a team & you'll have handed over the business side of things to someone who can make it sustainable & not just sail you into bankrupcy.

[somber anvil]

It really took a week for them to write a "Well, we'll continue with this trash business model, even if everyone hate that"
https://twitter.com/unity/status/1703547752205218265

[barren gorge]

im just gonna stop using the engine as soon as i can port my projects and tools to Godot

[kindred olive]

that just makes things worse. it means companies can get away with this stuff

[surreal basin]

thats their plan, start astronomically bad, and then settle im between old and ulta bad

[idle vault]

Do you have positive vibes for the future

[cerulean lintel]

yes.

[solemn junco]

Godot & Unreal both have many multiple controveries under their belt & Godot especially is maturing rapidly & about to ecounter all the growing pains Unity & Unreal overcame a decade ago.

[near sundial]

Saved, not fired today

[kindred olive]

finally ppl are waking up to open source!

[idle vault]

How positive we talkin 1-10

[near sundial]

Oh god, these questions lmao

[topaz plover]

We already know some of them:

• Money above everything
• Bad CEO is good CEO
• Bad management is good management
• Ignore our users unless it causes us to lose money

[wooden cave]

and Spying

[cerulean lintel]

not gonna answer that one.

[near sundial]

Saved again

[idle vault]

😦

[surreal basin]

dont forget random proprietary bill generator

[somber anvil]

Correction:

• Ignore our users EVEN if it causes us to lose money

[gilded salmon]

Start selling your shares a year in advance when you plan something big.

[thorn trellis]

i can't trust unity anymore. Like WoW in Shadowlands, unity betrayed me as a user like wow did 💔

[fair vigil]

so now we just wait for an update?

[idle vault]

How much time till we feel these positive vibes

[cerulean lintel]

a "couple" of days. (its in the twitter announcement)

[surreal basin]

unity reforged

[vagrant merlin]

I hope they sell it to Microsoft

[fair vigil]

its already over :/

[near sundial]

Why they telling us to wait a couple of days for the statement when they already know what they are gonna do? lol

[wooden cave]

you don't want a monopoly

[kindred olive]

they’re just selling their shares cuz they know unity will collapse and want to leave the sinking ship with 7 figures.

[idle vault]

Thnx

[vagrant merlin]

There is no monopoly, you have plenty other engines

[kindred olive]

more spyware? no thank you.

[cerulean lintel]

probably to make sure its as clear as possible and lack of confusion. a lot of people got confused by our first post.

[near sundial]

Makes sense ig

[thorn trellis]

"confused"

[surreal basin]

positive as in better than the plans from tuesday, or positive as in better than it was before the tuesdays anouncments?

[kindred olive]

what do you think about the change?

[wooden cave]

it's true that a guy inside of unity started making death threats?

[cerulean lintel]

oh god so many questions.

[somber anvil]

more like "oh, they are hate speeching us, let's pretend we're the victims in here"

[thorn trellis]

ILL GIVE YOU 50 DOLLARS IF SHE ANSWER THAT HONESTLY.
Close

[gilded salmon]

The only real problem with Unity is they have WAYYYYYY to many employees. They have twice the employees Epic Games has and they are still years behind in almost every area of the engine. They are playing yoyo with every god damn new features.

[cerulean lintel]

way above my pay grade. literally the other side the world to me.

[idle vault]

“Confused”

[surreal basin]

thats the problem with half assed decisions and letting everybod hanging for a few days tbh

[cerulean lintel]

probably shouldn't comment.

[near sundial]

Well Unity has to support both 2D and 3D

[gilded salmon]

bk

[west ginkgo]

I'd like to learn Flax not only to make my game but to understand full of gamedev and make Flax more popular

[slim bough]

No that's the issue with people thinking random employees can and will answer any question 😭

[edgy yew]

This is the main problem - increasing revenue won't help. It is their unmanaged spend. More money for them is just going to mean more problems and more mispending imo.

[gilded salmon]

That's not much harder, 2D is just sprites on a plane

[kindred olive]

what i figured. tells me all i need to know lol

[wooden cave]

maybe they invented it, i dunno (don't think so)

[cerulean lintel]

positive

[surreal basin]

yes that also, but until today nobody from unity started to talk about it here right?

[slim bough]

No

[thorn trellis]

Thank you for representing Unity anyway 😸

[spark grotto]

That's a very informative video, thankyou!

[somber anvil]

i mean, they discovered it was an employee, they discovered where it happened (social media), they had all the proofs, why there is no prison notices?

[surreal basin]

then i probably missed it

[edgy yew]

What did you expect? she's on her employers discord server, just trying to hangout. Do you want her risking her job to give you the answer you want?

[idle vault]

Can you technically say anything negative