Belt (and other machines possibly) don't have the correct speed | Fire Sword Studios | Page 1

primal heath Mar 10, 2024, 11:05 PM

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I need to stop saying everything in the title, just look at the images, hopefully you can understand what each one is supposed to be

cunning elm Mar 11, 2024, 1:42 AM

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Yeah, uh, you need to explain wtf those images are supposed to be

next oasis Mar 11, 2024, 1:44 AM

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so let's back up and start with the most important question
how many shards are you refining?

primal heath Mar 11, 2024, 1:49 AM

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cunning elm Yeah, uh, you need to explain wtf those images are supposed to be

the first image is my time with the belt, the second is an image without the belt along with the calculation of what it should be, the third is my belt speed, and the fourth is my actual speed according to the numbers with and without belt

primal heath Mar 11, 2024, 1:51 AM

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next oasis so let's back up and start with the most important question *how many shards are...

idk, I'll check when I'm home

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though you can see in the second image

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it produces this which gives me more questions

next oasis Mar 11, 2024, 1:52 AM

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so 10^9

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primal heath Mar 11, 2024, 1:54 AM

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you forgot belt tier

next oasis Mar 11, 2024, 1:54 AM

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are you not using a t10 belt?

primal heath Mar 11, 2024, 1:55 AM

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second image has no belt

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first one has everything but town perks

next oasis Mar 11, 2024, 1:55 AM

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okay this is why we like full screenshots

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belt effect is 8*2^(tier-1)?

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or no belt effect is just 2^tier

cunning elm Mar 11, 2024, 1:57 AM

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x infinity perk, x artifact

next oasis Mar 11, 2024, 1:57 AM

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factoring those in separately

cunning elm Mar 11, 2024, 1:57 AM

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It shows in the belt tooltip though

next oasis Mar 11, 2024, 1:58 AM

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we're trying to audit the belt tooltip compared to the timer shown on the refine page

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yoshi's saying that the two don't correlate correctly

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which is why I'm trying to break down the calculation

cunning elm Mar 11, 2024, 1:58 AM

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Right, but I'm saying to do that you need to understand what the belt tooltip is showing

next oasis Mar 11, 2024, 1:59 AM

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cunning elm Mar 11, 2024, 1:59 AM

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He definitely has the x10 of infinity perk, you can't get rid of that

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Also the 1.5x of the skill perk

cunning elm Mar 11, 2024, 2:04 AM

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primal heath the first image is my time with the belt, the second is an image without the bel...

I don't understand your 4th calculation at all

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Honestly, I don't understand any of your calculations

primal heath Mar 11, 2024, 2:05 AM

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what i think might be happening is that the gear, faster machines Perk, and tenfold are factoring into refine time directly

cunning elm Mar 11, 2024, 2:05 AM

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They are factored into the tooltip for sure

primal heath Mar 11, 2024, 2:06 AM

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cunning elm I don't understand your 4th calculation at all

it's the time in seconds of the longer refinement divided by the shorter refinement, which returns 2^10, which is tier ten belt base

cunning elm Mar 11, 2024, 2:06 AM

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This is my belt speed:

next oasis Mar 11, 2024, 2:06 AM

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Okay, so am I missing any other variables?

cunning elm Mar 11, 2024, 2:06 AM

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cunning elm This is my belt speed:

That is exactly 1.5 * 1024 * 10. I don't have the artifact.

primal heath Mar 11, 2024, 2:07 AM

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next oasis Okay, so am I missing any other variables?

i have all artifacts

next oasis Mar 11, 2024, 2:07 AM

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and that is how many

primal heath Mar 11, 2024, 2:07 AM

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36

cunning elm Mar 11, 2024, 2:08 AM

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We're missing something else, that's not enough

next oasis Mar 11, 2024, 2:08 AM

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and that's why we want to break the calculation down as much as possible

cunning elm Mar 11, 2024, 2:10 AM

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OK, town perks also are factored in for sure

primal heath Mar 11, 2024, 2:10 AM

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level 0 on all of them

next oasis Mar 11, 2024, 2:15 AM

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okay, this should be more accurate (was incorrectly applying mt)

cunning elm Mar 11, 2024, 2:15 AM

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Wait, wtf is up with the artifact bonus

primal heath Mar 11, 2024, 2:15 AM

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now it hits exactly the with belt time

next oasis Mar 11, 2024, 2:16 AM

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+2% per researched artifact, with double the artifacts thanks to Replica exo skill

primal heath Mar 11, 2024, 2:16 AM

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cunning elm Wait, wtf is up with the artifact bonus

2% per artifact, times two because of artifact replica

cunning elm Mar 11, 2024, 2:16 AM

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ahhh

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Something is hokey

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There is a precision issue somewhere, probably a conversion to single precision

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Otherwise the tooltip should show as exactly 37478.4

primal heath Mar 11, 2024, 2:18 AM

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yep

cunning elm Mar 11, 2024, 2:20 AM

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bingbingbing

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next oasis Mar 11, 2024, 2:21 AM

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well now my spreadsheet has a refine time calculator on it so that's good I guess

cunning elm Mar 11, 2024, 2:21 AM

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So just assume that the actual belt multiplier is that number instead of 37478.4

primal heath Mar 11, 2024, 2:22 AM

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that wasn't the bug anyway

cunning elm Mar 11, 2024, 2:24 AM

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There is no bug

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Your refine time got 1024x slower when you removed your belt

primal heath Mar 11, 2024, 2:25 AM

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the belt tooltip says it should have gotten 37478.402 times slower

cunning elm Mar 11, 2024, 2:25 AM

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You just can't see the belt tooltip when the belt is removed

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It still includes x10 for inf, 1.5x for faster machines, artifact etc.

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The "null belt" is faster than 1x XD

primal heath Mar 11, 2024, 2:26 AM

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my no belt is faster than a new player no belt

cunning elm Mar 11, 2024, 2:26 AM

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correct

primal heath Mar 11, 2024, 2:27 AM

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my refinements are faster without a belt by sheer force of will

cunning elm Mar 11, 2024, 2:27 AM

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well, by force of upgrades

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A better comparison would be if you made a T1 belt

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That would be x512 slower

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And you could see that in the tooltip

primal heath Mar 11, 2024, 2:29 AM

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it still feels like a bug though, anchiemt gear and the skill say they affect machines, which lead me to believe that my belt was slower than it should have been

cunning elm Mar 11, 2024, 2:29 AM

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The "T0" belt that you get from having no belt is another 2x slower

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It is sort of a weird case. All the other machines don't work at all if you don't have them, but by its nature the belt has to still function at T0

next oasis Mar 11, 2024, 2:30 AM

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which is why I needed to double check the underlying belt multiplier

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though it does make sense now that I think about it: 2^0 = 1

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since the belt is just a multiplier for the refine process it still "works" within the logic of the game

#Belt (and other machines possibly) don't have the correct speed