Woot's BP Compendium

[rich veldt]

ok significant (but lesser) penalty when using google aura.

9928 instead of 9500-ish or 10500-ish

I might be able to do away with XP bonus idk

since I currently only have one disable I don't suppose it matters too much how much xp I have

10290-ish kills.

funfact one version of winAI used Super Multishot instead of Google's Influence.

dropping confusion field, gonna see if that has substantial impact.

nope.

[inner jolt]

you get

4 disables in right?

[rich veldt]

currently I only have one disable scripted.

[inner jolt]

temporal

[rich veldt]

no substantial improvement from Chaos Gift. Sad.

Makes sense, but still sad.

I guess I can disable GA, RA, and CA

after this I'll [remove] kbop

I think 10600 is about the maximum possible with this BP

yeah, 530/s is roughly the limit

might be able to remove conductor. I'll have to see.

had to add Rak, since I have no more chance modules 😄

hopefully removing all the cruft improves fps, so slower users benefit directly from these changes.

I could disable void and snap, that might be useful.

ykno

might be able to make a smaller one using Sky Blessing. Might try that next.

[inner jolt]

I did that too, but now trying chaos gift

[rich veldt]

this reminds me of nandgame, where you can solve problems by putting modules together, but you optimise problems by stripping the redundancy out of modules and building the entire thing out of nands.

something I did harmed performance slightly, not sure what.

down to ~10300

oh well.

chaos gift might be worth keeping, actually

it should duplicate Something, which could potentially be huge

well, I say 'huge' but I don't think it's possible to do much better than 10600 even with dupes

this is fine

down to 28 modules.

unfortunately there's a whole bunch of junk in the AI now.

I might leave it there, since it does 'work', and tweaking it risks breaking it

and it's a template for changing it in future

[inner jolt]

total with gray?

[rich veldt]

yeah

[inner jolt]

am at 31

[rich veldt]

unless you can beat 10600 killcount, I think mine's good enough

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

ok final test, WC off, I changed my mind and stripped some redundancy from the AI

[inner jolt]

good choice

[rich veldt]

I could use snap slightly more frequently, but it's not super useful for a variety of reasons

mainly it's only worth using actives in the first and third quarter, due to floof

and since snap's cooldown in my case is 17s (and generally dynamic), it's not useful to spam it for risk of using it at a bad time

I think this is good enough.

I'll re-release winAI I guess.

home #1094013225915396127 message
winAI 4 aka winAI-FUN

Removed basically everything. Personal tests show it's about as effective as winAI 3. Test both before choosing.
Special 'thanks' to @inner jolt for pushing me to waste my time on this.
AI same name, so remove old version. Works like previous versions (i.e. 'out-the-box', no user input required). For best results, maximise resource modifier via infinity perk, power stones, town perks, asteroids, construction firm, anvil, dyson, factory boosters, nexus, whatever else. LMK of any issues.
[As before, disable most/all softwares before use. It is intended to be used at a fixed wave for maximum resource yield, and softwares will mess with that. [redacted for dumb]. If you're using it to gain infinities, A; please use a different, better BP, and B; keep all softwares on as appropriate.]

now I can vanish for ten months and nobody has any right to complain because I'm totally still active.

If you want you can take a look at winRP3U as well. That's not really in a state to be released yet but I've been working on it

[round drift]

poofs the woot out of existence for 10 months

[rich veldt]

aww. I'm testing winRP3U and I'm so close to surviving chnm with it

might be able to do it with a good lock.

yeah if I could get health, basic resistance, and neutral resistance, in a single lock; that should be enough

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
on the one hand, I can't get all contracts without making an essential sacrifice
on the other, the sacrifice might ruin the BP

so

ZmlzaDtibGVzc2luZy5za3k7cmVmbGVjdC53aW5jZTtzaGllbGQudW5pdmVyc2FsO3NwZWxsLnZvaWQ7ZGVmZW5zZS5idWx3YXJrO2ltcGFjdC5ncmF2aXR5O2F0dGFjay5haXI7Zm91bmRhdGlvbi5pbmZpbml0eTtzcGVsbC5yYWtzQ3Vyc2U7c3BlbGwucmVib290O3Rvd2VyLnVuaXZlcnNhbDtjcmF0ZS5yZXg7c3BlbGwuZmxvb2Y7ZW5lcmd5LmJhc2ljO2F1cmEuY2hlY2tlcmJvYXJkO3NwZWxsLmNvbmZ1c2lvbg== this works, but until we get another universal module, it'll only be 7/8 contracts 😦

ideally an [ultimate, legendary, or special] aoe universal, but it doesn't matter too much.

[inner jolt]

death aura should constitute ~50 kills during the whole run, ~2-3x more if buffed with google

[rich veldt]

is that for winAI? It might, but it's competing with other effects that kill stuff

[inner jolt]

yes

[rich veldt]

simple fact is the gains are too small to measure from my limited attempts.

possibly coz of google

(reducing its radius to near-irrelevancy)

and void hits harder. Only thing that might work is HMG

[inner jolt]

mmmmm

I now too optimise for floof kills, and kills in general

[inner jolt]

that is 61 seconds

[rich veldt]

kudos, that's apparently slightly better than mine.

[inner jolt]

you should try bluecats harmonizer

[rich veldt]

ah yes

reduced cooldown

that might work really well.

okay let's do a quick test, see if I can handle the energy econ.

my AI seems to handle it just fine.

Probably because everything already costs more than 20% of total energy

ooh, 13s snap.

that's three snaps per floof.

tiny gains, but not nothing

wait a minute. I just realised blue's works with refresh.
60 second fresh o.o

making it work would mean changing all the timers 😦

[spare moat]

doesn't matter at wave max

[inner jolt]

I've heard it matters

[spare moat]

your information is very old

[inner jolt]

why not? it reduces spawn ticks, which might lead to delays and less enemies coming out

[spare moat]

can you prove it?

[inner jolt]

nope, just keeping it off for safety

[spare moat]

the only thing that should matter is time between enemies and time between waves, both should be identical to eachother and themselves with or without wave comp

[supple narwhal]

wait, so having wave compression set to ON is now the same as with it set to OFF at gaining resource drops/sec when killing enemies in a 60 sec period?

i too am still under the impression that since resource drop/sec is dependent on enemy kills, thereby less enemy spawn ticks (wave compression ON) will have less income per second - is that no longer the case?

or does wave comp ON or OFF not matter specifically at W 100B E 100B I 100B?

[rich veldt]

might just be an anomaly of winAI. I don't know if it generally makes a difference or not.

remember that winAI is bottlenecked by how long it takes enemies to approach one of the killing fields. Spawns are essentially capped the entire time as a result

try it with burnORF, that one regularly caps on clear speed

[spare moat]

it doesn't matter at specifically that

[spare moat]

the reason why wave comp affects is due to the increase in boss waves, more boss waves means less enemies because a boss tick spawns one enemy while a normal tick spawns one enemy per lane, inf 100 billion changes this so the boss tick spawns all the bosses instead

[supple narwhal]

yeah, that makes sense. thanks for the clarification.

[rich veldt]

@inner jolt okay suppose we take this, and we do something fun to it.
Specifically: we add Super Multishot, Air Barrier, and Borf.
Let's suppose that Air Barrier will bounce projectiles to the tower, and let's suppose that Energy Sphere will bounce these projectiles back to the enemy (I have no idea if this is true).
Given that Sky Blessing makes the tower invincible, the implication is that we can destroy attackers with ES (assuming we do sufficient damage), at roughly the same rate as burnorf, i.e. around 1800/second, making it a high speed resource farming and infinity pushing BP.
Since we've added air barrier, we can probably remove air attack (if everything else works), so we keep pacifist. We lose glass cannon, since we now have some 3-ish blues, but that's fine, we can get annihilist for our trouble. We can't rely on mimics any more, but the few enemies that don't mimic a reflect will kill themselves on the tower eventually, so it should work itself out to be only slightly slower than burnorf.

Rate my stupid idea pls.

[inner jolt]

how do you intend to deal inf damage with super multishot?

[inner jolt]

I'm currently sustaining energy sphere being active

I thought it prevented Power Conversion

[inner jolt]

burnorf needs attack speed for projectiles

[inner jolt]

I also tried to switch winai core to sky blessing, but it's unstable without air attack

[rich veldt]

don't need to.
I just need the enemy to reflect inf damage.

[inner jolt]

I can get inf reflect damage

but not trigger it via super mult

[inner jolt]

It's hard to test that interaction, but from what I see, I think ES does not get triggered by Barriers

8 modules is all you need to be invincible and kill every enemy

[rich veldt]

shame.

[cursive idol]

Whenever i try to import this ai script it gives me an error. I tried with and without migrate enabled and both ways gave me this error

Same issue with the WinAi4.0 Script

Ok so, its giving me that same error for all the script i try to implement from this thread

[vivid notch]

that seems very short, bad copy most likely

copying from discord is iffy, download the file and copy from it

[cursive idol]

Lemme try downloading the txt and copying from there

There we go

Thx for the help

Is it just enabled Facility Ai and start a run or is there anything else i need to do myself?

[vivid notch]

set up according to BP description, different BPs have different requirements

[cursive idol]

Its the same bp as the script

both Winai3.0

[vivid notch]

I didn't check the update yet so I don't want to mislead

2.x required light stone off as the most important thing, I think that was it'

[cursive idol]

this good?

[inner jolt]

all winAI require light stone off

[inner jolt]

you dont need damage or resistance for winAI

that is its purpose

[cursive idol]

Its just my current setup

also whats this light stone you guys are talking about?

[vivid notch]

winAI as a concept is a "stop hitting yourself" + "I'm invincible"

[cursive idol]

light stone as in museum thingy?

[vivid notch]

if you're not in inf phase yet don't worry about it

[cursive idol]

i am

[vivid notch]

then it's an infinity stone 😛

[cursive idol]

am nearing mt14

[vivid notch]

oh, then yeah, you probably don't have any stones charged yet

[cursive idol]

ye ok, i didnt mess with those yet

they take so long

[inner jolt]

infinity perk

[cursive idol]

will prob wait for mt14 to do that cuz new ai

[vivid notch]

generally you only get them charged at mt15, it's technically possible at 14 but not worth it

[cursive idol]

also, i noticed that the winai3.0 is labeled as a farming bp, however stuff like condense isnt in there

would it be fine if i add the missing recourse generation things myself?

[hazy bane]

its specifically setting a resource idle in the idle screen

[inner jolt]

it's purely for setting an Idle

[hazy bane]

it will only live 60 seconds, its not really a pre mt15 bp

[cursive idol]

oh, i do have all the modules tho, spent a few hours on the stupid water experiment to do that chaos challenge for the bp XD

[vivid notch]

it's a great BP, just very specialized at what it does

[cursive idol]

all these blueprints are kinda confusing tbh, with like how they are labelled and stuff

[vivid notch]

you can add the modules, it won't break things, but hard to say how useful that'll be, at a guess not very

you do kind of have to read carefully, it's not streamlined - because it's one guy doing it as a hobby and sharing his work

[hazy bane]

I'd recommend just getting mt15 quickly before focusing on idles and other stuff

[cursive idol]

I mean, the blueprints ive tried so far have been pretty good tbh, better than most stuff online

[hazy bane]

its not very hard to get there

[cursive idol]

I wanted to use the winai3.0 for that

[spare moat]

well that's why we recommend them

[cursive idol]

i misread and its appearantly for pushing inf

[hazy bane]

the pre mt15 pushing bp's are pinned in #infinity-phase

[vivid notch]

winAI is most definitely not for pushing

[cursive idol]

Oh thx XD

[vivid notch]

well, it's a last-resort pushing I guess, for when no other BP can do the job, but that means it's not very good at it

[spare moat]

winAI is great for a strat known as suicide bombing, where you don't care about anything and brute force push with wave restart

[cursive idol]

Alrighty, also for the challenges there was 2 big threads i found and the one by yoshi was so far the best

the other one only had granite found + reflect for most challneges

[cursive idol]

Oh hi XD

[spare moat]

well one is optimized for hardmode, which works fine on normal mode but may not be optimal, and the other is optimized for normal mode assuming you have absurd stats and no resistance

[spare moat]

hello

[cursive idol]

Also, it seems that in the thread i found that has all your build the speed section is just emtpy, will that be added later or not?

[velvet wave]

raphael2512 has been warned

Reason: Posted a link

[cursive idol]

oh lol

its one on github by someone named bluecats

[tribal holly]

@cursive idol has earned the Spark role!

[hazy bane]

yes that's me

[cursive idol]

oh lol

[vivid notch]

that's probably out of scope for Woot's BP Compendium 😛

[spare moat]

it'll get added once i decide i want to work on them

[cursive idol]

Alrighty

[hazy bane]

you can use all the hardmode bp's for the normal ones

[spare moat]

same with normal mode

[cursive idol]

Thats what i was doing cuz the hadmode ones just seem like theyd be better in every way

[vivid notch]

they'll be slower in 90% of the cases, cause they need to spend a lot of attention on surviving, when in normal mode that's usually a given, but otherwise should always work

[cursive idol]

alr

Anyways ima check out Infinity-phase bps and stuff. It was nice talking to ya all!

[inner jolt]

Oh btw, from what I've seen, enemies CANNOT use [Toggle] active modules, at all, so KBoP in its [off] state is a pure detriment to range
You can build around this, as toggles do not junk up enemy active slots as much as other actives

a.k.a. if an enemy spawn with 2 actives, it only has 50% chance to use a specific one, but a toggle and an active, the active is the only choice

[rich veldt]

odd

could you check Energy Sphere?

[inner jolt]

same

it's a Toggle

it's a "free" reflect

that enemies cannot use

[rich veldt]

does that mean enemies never activate it, or that they only ever leave it on

[inner jolt]

cannot activate

[rich veldt]

strange.

[inner jolt]

That, or toggles do not show pop-up text like "Super Tower 2!"

but they dont even spend energy, so probably just can not activate at all

[rich veldt]

easy test is to see if the reflect kills the tower

another easy test is to run with titanium hull (disables energy regen) and see if they bleed energy

[inner jolt]

I gave my thought process, you can test and verify yourself

[bold granite]

I was using another blueprint/ai (I forgot which) and it was working for me.. I deleted them and switched to this one but now I'm getting instantly killed

Is there something I've overlooked?

infinity/ workshop/ museum

headquarters

[rich veldt]

this one
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

I have about a dozen. Which one

[cedar vale]

gonna need a little more specificity there bud
there's 12 choices
you mean winRP+ 1.12?

[untold dragon]

FPS too low and not having infinity light stone enabled is a good place to start

Depending

[cedar vale]

they could be using a winWE
bigger problems to fix, in that case

[bold granite]

yes

[bold granite]

fps? 😮

oh my fps is okay

but i'm dying instantly

i got all inf stones and about 1QaV

in resources

almost everything's unlocked

i haven't done the final boss yet

[cedar vale]

every module?

[bold granite]

all except bork

i think?

the adventure one

[cedar vale]

then, you should be able to do #1094005500091318395 if you want reflect
but, if you want to try winRP, consider these
Reimporting the script and the BP
exiting and reopening the game to reinable any stats you might have turned off and forgotten about
checking module tiers (probably not needed, still worth checking just in case)

[bold granite]

what about streaming

are they automated in the AI?

[rich veldt]

is 1.12 the latest? Pretty sure it isn't o.o
Then again I haven't shared winRP3U so maybe it is.

[bold granite]

my bp levels are between 66 and 72

[rich veldt]

oh, it is, huh.

ok let me go look at 1.12

[cedar vale]

no software manipulation in the present AI

[bold granite]

so i just leave everything on?

[rich veldt]

ok blablabla words looks like winRP3U isn't public yet

did you follow winRP's instruction spec

[bold granite]

no where do i find it

i'm a noob at discord tbh

[cedar vale]

message that gives you the imports

[bold granite]

i read that message

i'll doublecheck

[rich veldt]

Assumes light stone. If absent, as with the spec before: turn wave restart off, turn era floor off, turn wave streaming off, turn all the other era softwares off (aside from new bounds); then after starting a run maximise the health & damage era dividers. Then turn software back on.
For best results, also use nature stone. winRP is not intended to have maximum damage, however, so don't try to optimise for it. Main killing power is wince.
Lock health and/or resistance in anvil, maximise resistance and health from other sources. Tolerance up to ~e160 or so depending on stats.
If you don't use AI, make sure to disable light and darkness, others optional. No module secures are required.
actually, the spec is only in the initial 1.0 release, since the others just say 'same as previous versions'

[bold granite]

oh i didn't see this message

i'll follow instructions and try again

[cedar vale]

wait, wut?
none of winRP's AI's have software manipulation?

[rich veldt]

why would they?

they were made with the assumption that you had light stone and wave restart, meaning software manip is pointless.

[bold granite]

i think era powers are my biggest weakness so region 11 (nightmare) is my best option

unless i'm still doing something wrong

[cedar vale]

are you still dying quickly?

[bold granite]

yes

wait let me check multiple regions

can't do chaos 15 (medium)

can do region 14 (easy)

i'm definitely missing something

[cedar vale]

I don't think this is on winRP then
if you've reimported the BP and everything in the specs is met, it might be a #infinity-phase talk

[cedar vale]

forgot codproofing is a rule only I go by

[bold granite]

bluecat's worked pretty well.. chaos insane > 600 floors (total 11.6k) before dying

[hazy bane]

woot prioritizes functionally

[bold granite]

i honestly think it's something i'm doing wrong but i'll figure it out eventually

maybe there are things i should upgrade

[untold dragon]

Max your idle so you can upgrade modules

[rich veldt]

specifically, since it's not essential to the BP's function, it's not included in the AI.
Some of my BPs absolutely require software manip and software manip is included in their AI, but winRP isn't one of them.

[rich veldt]

try winRP with blue's AI.

as of 1.12's release, it was nearly identical to RpCat, so the only difference would be their AI logic.

(RpCat has likely changed a lot since then, but even so)

also, it'd be nice to know how you die. You can't just say 'i keep dying' and not elaborate: is it unlimited damage? is it ??? damage? is it 0.001 damage (or something similar)? is it a really big number like e270 (this would look like UNg or something silly, if you use named)? What did the enemy mimic? What era elements were disabled? Were the health/damage dividers maxed? What element was the killing blow? What modules were secured? What do your town stats look like?

Some of these are less important than others, but I need at least some of them in order to figure out why winRP didn't work

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
This is my local copy of winRP3U. I tested it and it works fine, but it'll have many of the same issues as other versions of winRP (like assuming you have light stone active). Personally, I don't have to do anything except start a run with the AI layer active.

this one is different from RpCat and 1.12, since it uses Energy Sphere instead of Nature Barrier.
It's actually powerful enough that I don't need W.I.N.C.E, but I don't have very much field data for it so I'm not committed to its current [design].

for anyone due to complain at whatever junk I left in the bp:
this is literally what it looks like in my workshop. I haven't touched it in months because its development is on hiatus. It is not finished. I appreciate input but don't disparage me for it >_>

unfortunately winRP3U doesn't work without light stone. I'd have to do a whole bunch of work to make it work since I need a way to flush enemies with infinite era health, and the best way is void, but I can't use that with ES, so ugh

[hazy bane]

hey I'm always dying at the 57-58 mark, not sure why

also you might want to put one of the somethings on the bottom left lane instead, since that lane exists on every map

I think bottom right is the second most common

[rich veldt]

I suspect your fps is too low. There's a super-tight timing event around the 31s mark that 'saves' two seconds. If you miss it, you die at 58s instead of 60s.

as for placing somethings, I have no idea how. If you know the cords, I invite you to share them.

[hazy bane]

I'm running 200+, I dobut it

I can try increasing more

[rich veldt]

try 1x speed, and watch what happens between 30s and 35s

normally it'll use temp barrier twice, at ~29s and again at ~33s

28s and 31s.

if you miss the 31s event you'll die at 58s

[hazy bane]

oh wait I might know why

I accidently set my energy to 2

[rich veldt]

what

[hazy bane]

refresh wasn't being triggered because of it

yeah worked fine after leveling it

finally at e100 now

[tribal holly]

@devout briar has earned the Spark role!

[hazy bane]

should ask in #infinity-phase

but anvil

[snow talon]

would like to add rex crate as an option also- not sure how to toggle a single cript in AI as new to this...

[rich veldt]

you can just press it yourself
but if you want an AI solution, do this:

impulse: new round
actions: activate module of index of module of id 'crate of rex'
[make sure the script is enabled, too. Right Mouse click on the script (or whatever you normally do to enable packages and such)]

but I'm pretty sure the newer AIs for winAI already have this because they include crate now.

if the above doesn't work properly, add

wait 1.0 seconds
above the activation line.

sometimes things get weird if they try to activate too early in tower testing

[unreal yacht]

I think you labled them both as AI 😭

WAIT

im blind

[broken marsh]

winAI is the name of the bp

[unreal yacht]

excuse my blindness

I didnt see the _ai and _bp

tyvm :D

womp womp though

[broken marsh]

some from infinity grid
some from challenges
cooling cell from #perfect-space

[sage rampart]

is there a place where the terms like winRP, winAI etc. are described? (I am not sure in which maps/waves I should be using these 🙈)

[hazy bane]

winRP and winAI are just bp names
win reflect push and win auto idle I think?

the actual bps are pinned

[sage rampart]

aah okay thanks

[verbal grail]

So I recently reached infinity and am trying out winWELP + the AI package that goes with it. The problem is that there is nothing in the AI package to disable certain software until era dividers are maxed out. Which makes it that I am getting almost insta killed every round unless I switch the software off and later on manually.
Am I missing some AI package, should get division shield and is it supposed to start straight at infinity?

[vivid notch]

don't know how much of this is automated in any AI package - but in general until you can get around it (with inf stuff you earn later) you are supposed to start in era so that you can gather xp for disables before letting it go to inf, era stuff is still a problem in inf

[rich veldt]

so, era creeping.
I don't generally deal with era creeping because it's not something I ever care enough to automate. Even when I've had to deploy it, it's simple enough to just stall at low era for a bit. You don't have wave restart so just turn cwj off and you should be fine. Maybe era floor and some other stuff too actually.
If you do have wave restart just turn that off too.

This really is not something I need to automate for you.

there's plenty of era creeping AIs out there, I don't know how compatible they are with my AIs, but no harm in trying them. I don't know where they are because it's not in my interest to know.

The goal of winWEL(P) is to give you the fragments needed for anvil and grid upgrades. As soon as you have them you're expected to migrate to a better BP. In other words: they're not even designed for infinity 2, really, although I suppose they can pull it off. Them dying [to] era [in inf] is a non-issue as long as you're getting frags because they're essentially frag farming BPs.

[fringe gust]

when i use win ai 4 i die instantly what is going on

[rich veldt]

instantly
probably fps. Turn 3x speed off

[fringe gust]

win ai 4 dies at 60 sec its ok but it dosent generate a better idle

???

[cedar vale]

that's exactly what's supposed to happen

longer run != better idle necessarily

[spare moat]

well its not very easy to make it live longer, though i guess cooling cell grants double time, if that mattered

[fringe gust]

the problem is that it dosent make a better idle

il just use rpcat

[cedar vale]

wdym better idle exactly?
do you think a longer run will make it give more idle?

[spare moat]

upgrade to winAI 3 maybe?

[fringe gust]

no

[tribal holly]

@fringe gust has earned the Ember role!

[fringe gust]

its just that i get 1uvi

instead of 6uvi provided by rp

[spare moat]

where? where are you getting 6e66 on rp cat and where are you getting 1e66 with winAI

[cedar vale]

maybe you need to turn off some of the software to give winAI time to kill?

[spare moat]

i would also like inf values

[fringe gust]

chaos med

[cedar vale]

we're kinda cluttering the post with this rn tho
maybe move back to #infinity-phase since this is less about the winAI and more about you

[brave spindle]

the way winai works, you also may want to turn off light stone

assuming you set up everything else properly

[cedar vale]

that's not what the issue was
buddy was using winAI on normal, you're not gonna get much done from there

[brave spindle]

it still works well for setting an idle tho, even on easy, just need to find a proper place to do so

[rich veldt]

if rpcat is working, then winAI will not.
how many times do I have to tell people this
The reason winAI has the light stone [off] isn't so that enemies have infinite health. It's so enemies have infinite damage.
It's not to kill the tower, it's to kill the enemies.
If some other BP will work, your regdif and/or wei are far too low.
If winRP (or RpCat) doesn't kill you, then winAI just behaves like a worse winRP.

blue goes to the trouble of designing RpCat to match as many of the contracts as possible and includes the various resource boosters in the BP and AI, so it will give you a fantastic idle below your tolerance ceiling.

winAI is for getting resources at and above your tolerance ceiling.

[cedar vale]

question so I can redirect people to a msg

just because you're clearing waves after 60 seconds, it doesn't necessarily mean that you're getting a higher idle, right?

[rich veldt]

if anything, you're getting worse.

winAI will not reset each minute, meaning it will immediately stop using actives

[cedar vale]

as I thought

[rich veldt]

without floof, your baseline will be vastly lower than during the first minute

and if you're using it properly, you're never going to get a higher baseline (without actives) than during the first minute

for example, if you're using it to push, you're using it wrong

as before, in this case it's just a worse version of winRP or RpCat, and you should use those

and even if I did implement loop logic (it's not hard, thanks to WINEMAST), the fact is it gets fewer kills per second compared to winRP et al, iirc.

[cedar vale]

reminds me of when I used winAI to push because it was the most functional bp I could use

[rich veldt]

yeah, it does work, but badly.

use it when absolutely nothing else works

[cedar vale]

that's where I was

[rich veldt]

winWE or borf, winRP or RpCat if those don't work, and winAI if none of those work.

[cedar vale]

hey woot, can you edit the message to include turning off the softwares:

Critical wavejump
Wave Instability
Era burst

These should be the only ones that can have a negative impact on the AI, from as far as I remember

[rich veldt]

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh

[broken marsh]

why wave instability if you're disabling cwj anyway

[cedar vale]

idk, I was told to turn them both off when I was failing at using winAI

[cedar vale]

why?
because of this #1094013225915396127 message

[cedar vale]

thank you :D

[rich veldt]

depends on why you were using it.

you should have all software off when using winAI, except compression, because you don't want the wave counter to tick

[cedar vale]

resources XD

[rich veldt]

unless you're weird and using it to push, in which case you want them all on (but you also want a better BP)

[cedar vale]

huh, I should only have compression on for resources?
That's not something I've heard of before

[rich veldt]

yeah I'm dumb, you should have comp off as well.

[cedar vale]

so, everything off
even acceleration software?
I've been using it wrong this whole time then

[rich veldt]

if the wave counter cycles from 100b to 0b, you lose a lot of resources

[cedar vale]

well hold on now, there must be software you gotta enable (appart from wave restart)
not even wave streaming?
what about the wave and era floors?

[rich veldt]

a few of them help

as long as the wave counter ticks slowly you're fine

[cedar vale]

I'll bother you one more time, sorry woot

does winAI 4 have modules you want secured?
It has the secures block, yea, but that contains a lot of modules that aren't even in the bp

[inner jolt]

that's just woot being lazy:

"If it ain't broke dont make it better"

[cedar vale]

well yea, but I added secures to it to make it better, but idk if he made it with specific secures in mind or not

[rich veldt]

Idk.

[cedar vale]

winRP3U

@rocky pasture check

[rocky pasture]

cool

@rich veldt am i allowed to take ideas from it for my blueprints?

[rich veldt]

Everything published is for academic purposes.

[rocky pasture]

||i am taking that as a yes||

[rich veldt]

of course you're allowed to take ideas from it.

[cedar vale]

would he have displayed it if he didn't expect people to rip it appart and study it?

[rocky pasture]

maybe he just expected people to use it? idk

oh ffs woot

how dare you

using energy sphere!

[rich veldt]

no, I hate that. I want people to learn how and why my strategies work.

[rich veldt]

why not

[broken marsh]

she hates ES

[rocky pasture]

yes

i mean not really i only hate the exploit that comes from it

@rich veldt why infinity splash?

and also why do you have photosynthesis if you're dealing neutral damage

[rich veldt]

guess which module it was
It only took me about 2 years to find a use-case for it. I get there in the end.

[rich veldt]

short answer: cruft.
Long(er) answer: makes very little difference. Many of my picks are random.

[rocky pasture]

what does cruft mean?

[rich veldt]

iirc, it's computing jargon. Junk in the code.

[rocky pasture]

oh

[rich veldt]

usually too deeply entrenched to be easily refactored out

but also not obviously doing anything important

I could remove photosynthesis, but maybe it's important. I don't know, because this BP is in development still.

I published it for feedback and got nearly zero feedback

so it continues to be dodgy

[rocky pasture]

yeah i will admit this is a very good blueprint.

it uses energy sphere, which i completely forgot about, to then use health to survive

unlike mine who uses wince and is like x8746249343674 slower

🙃

[rocky pasture]

also, boss shield and bulletproof are kinda meh, why you using them

i can understand boss shield because of the x10 boss enemies get, which, i mean, shouldn't be a problem but ig it might if you're running too close

[hazy bane]

boss shield is good because of monsoon aura

and yeah, the 10x that bosses get

[rich veldt]

I value consistency. Bosses and assassins have slightly higher damage than most enemy types. These modules normalise things.

tolerance is measured by the highest damage taken, not the average damage taken.

[rocky pasture]

Bosses and assasins have slightly higher damage
by like a really small value

[rich veldt]

it only takes one enemy hitting very hard to ruin a run, and usually those enemies are assassins and bosses, because they hit harder.

[rich veldt]

around 10x.

[rocky pasture]

actually funny thing about my bp idea is it can't run neutral gift 🙃

[rich veldt]

well okay I can't check because wave is flipping all over the place.

[rocky pasture]

~~because i'm pretty sure latest versions use molten core

i can't afford to disable void

neutral gift would make my damage worse~~

[hazy bane]

exactly 10x

health is same, they just had bulwark

[rocky pasture]

of course, and x10 to damage

this is all on the help page btw

[broken marsh]

no, health is increased by x10 as well
bulwark only adds e3

[rocky pasture]

tower testing -> enemies

[hazy bane]

ah

[rocky pasture]

oh i missed the last message XD

[steel barn]

What am I doing wrong? I die instantly on any region and any dificulty.

Can't seem to get a BP to push me further into infinities. That includes this one, RpCat, BurnORF, Sky something, Void of Chaos..
The further I got was Nightmare in Region 11, Inf 17 Million only.

[hazy bane]

Whats the damage

Or a screenshot of the death screen can help

[steel barn]

I just can't seem to push further into infinities with any of those BP.
I think the insta death on any run was a different AI with the BP, even though I was sure it was the same.

Chaos Impossible can't pass Inf 686
Nightmare, 20k

The further I got was in Region 11, Nightmare, Inf 17M

It goes a few hundred or thousands and then dies.

With RPCat

The others pretty much the same.

Or even worse.

If it helps.

[hazy bane]

just sounds like a stats issue mainly, you need to go into forge for a higher module level, so its just getting more fragments for anvil and forge

past boss 5 its just grinding fragments mainly

[steel barn]

The thing is, my stats from the anvil and forge aren't really that far off from the first time I played and there I was close to billions on Chaos Nightmare.

Guess I need tons of fragments.

I tried to farm with the BP's here, but I was getting so little.

Maybe I won't do Chaos, and do R11 where I have Inf 17M

Might get a little more, I dunno.

[hazy bane]

I'd recommend #1227586381929386036

and yeah the higher inf would probably get you more frags

especially since you're in nightmare

if you want to optimize you'll have to go for a chimp inf 100b

that's how people get e6+ idles for frags

[steel barn]

Well, I cant do that since ChImp is Inf 686 only, can't go any further 😭 🤣

The furthest I have in Inf is 17m in R11.

Nightmare too.

[rich veldt]

this looks normal tbh.

[rich veldt]

first of all, this is RpCat, so I can't diagnose it properly.
Second, you're using named notation, which I've unlearnt by now, so I can't assess everything properly.
The fact is it looks like you're doing about a thousand times less damage than necessary to progress, so you're relying on W.I.N.C.E to progress (but Idk for sure). This tends to be slow.
Not sure how much damage you're [taking] but you look undamaged, so the problem is kill rate I suppose.

You've not specified you have the nature-universal infinity perk active. I'll assume you do, but this is an important setup for nature damage builds.

If you want me to help you with one of my BPs, let me know what's wrong with it.

[rich veldt]

keep in mind, both in RpCat and in winRP, neutral and universal represent a bottleneck for progress. They're your 'weak link', and you get more progress improving your tolerance to those than you do improving your tolerance to the others. It's for this reason I urge people using winRP to get a rainbow museum layout, with ~1:1 resistance/power stone town perks, since this is one of the only ways to improve your tolerance to these elements.
You can also lock neutral/universal or resistance/health (or shield or whatever) in the anvil. This should help slightly. This all assumes you have something like W.I.N.C.E that'll keep working even with barrier or whatever doesn't.

[rocky pasture]

i missed a great opportunity to advertise #1257712401143566406

[cedar vale]

I'm revisiting my spell compactor for a "release"
Do you think the logic behind the activations of winAI 4 can be improved? or module locks
cus saying "if it ain't broke dont make it better" seems to me like you see spots for improvement

[inner jolt]

AI is not my strong suit, especially complicated ones, you will handle it better

[cedar vale]

I handle the AI better, but the logic behind the blueprint is what I'm curious about

[inner jolt]

there are two ways, to have infinity energy and not worry about its regen, or try to minmax without it for possible better results
the goal is to maximise killspeed (in general) but especially when floof is active

[cedar vale]

if you see improvements, please tell me XD
I'm trying to make as good of an end product as possible
not because the current winAI's AI is dysfunctional, far from it, but I need an example that people can understand with ease, and winAI is pretty good example for it

[inner jolt]

it was more-or-less determined that having universal neutral darkness and elec era powers enabled is good for killspeed (on WINCE)

[cedar vale]

oki, I changed it so it won't disable those
do you have thoughts on what it secures?

I can give you the list, if you want

[rich veldt]

it is very clutch, but I could see it being improved with a better kit.
I've not needed to improve it, so I haven't.

[inner jolt]

disabling active modules that dont benefit killspeed, like Void, Something, Snap

[rich veldt]

simple enough logic.
implements the clock cycle, segmenting the runtime into phases during which activations occur. To make it more robust you could loop over these activations while the clock is true, but I don't have enough lines for that + it's not really my problem.

it assumes that everything executes without fault which is why some people experience unusual deaths at t34 or whatever

if you wanted to tune it slightly you could reinforce the clock cycle with loop logic to make sure the events all fire

what the cycle actually does - that is, what the events are - is also fairly straight forward.

temporal barrier for 30 seconds, then temporal barrier for 29 seconds. The second inbetween is covered by immortality shield, which runs at, Idk, t29 or whatever.

[cedar vale]

oh, I also added knights boost of power to the bp and I activate it for less attackspeed and more range for some reason, might be better off deleting that one tho

[rich veldt]

everything else just kinda happens at opportune moments.

[rich veldt]

shouldn't help. winAI runs on reflect iirc.

[inner jolt]

yes and: relfect is based on enemy range and attack speed

[rich veldt]

winAI is forced to do the latter.

[inner jolt]

active moduesl help with that

but not all

we dont want enemies to waste

[rich veldt]

because I think it uses harmonizer, which means egregious energy costs.

[inner jolt]

module activations

[inner jolt]

not really "forced"

[rich veldt]

maybe? The first incident should be sufficiently lethal, so the only benefit to attack speed is from ranged enemies because the projectile moves faster.

the bottleneck for reflect builds is movement speed not attack speed

so, darkness and erak probably would help, because their era shield impacts movespeed

[cedar vale]

yea, that's what the spell compactor does, makes all activations into a loop, to permit the usage of an infinitely long programmable string of actions

[rich veldt]

also air

but the others not so much

[inner jolt]

afaik ranged projectles dont move faster

[rich veldt]

(also not even sure about air, they might move faster than the projectiles do)

[inner jolt]

from attack speed

the're fixed

[rich veldt]

odd. In that case aspeed is useless.

enemies die as soon as they hit and they hit immediately regardless of cooldown.

only reason it matters is if they have intrinsic defence like universal era shield

[inner jolt]

wince is 10%

dont forget

[rich veldt]

and reflect is 100%

[inner jolt]

it's not the first hit

[rich veldt]

it uses reflect

[inner jolt]

since when?

[rich veldt]

...

it's winAI

the hell did you think it was

[inner jolt]

wince

[rich veldt]

why do you think we're very strict about disabling the light era stone

we want to take infinite damage, because we want to reflect infinite damage.

[inner jolt]

we're not talking about 8/8????

the correct version of "winAI"

[cedar vale]

winAI is 7/8

[rich veldt]

that's not winAI

it's certainly not winAI 4

you've forgotten that's called winNER

[inner jolt]

sure, well that's the best one

ofc I will talk about it

[rich veldt]

but we're not

winNER is fundamentally different to winAI, utilising different logic (even if it shares an AI - I don't remember tbh), and is entirely unrepresentative of the winAI family of BPs

questions regarding one can't be answered by appeal to another

[cedar vale]

oki, so no need to modify the activation/secure logic, ye?
that's neat then, many thanks you two

[rich veldt]

it might still help, but not in the ways neo has described.

darkness and erak might be good disables

I've not tested, but the increased movement they get from their era shields might increase throughput

I don't know if air era shield is helpful or harmful, due to air enemy movement speed.

modules that impact attack speed are mostly unhelpful; ones that impact range might be helpful or harmful, you'd have to test them

[cedar vale]

erak is electric, right?

[rich veldt]

yes

@opal jolt hi

[cedar vale]

so, remove disabling darkness and electric, ye?
cus atm everything is disabled

[rich veldt]

I am pretty sure winAI doesn't require any module securess

so you're welcome to do what you like

some things might help, maybe remove actives in case they slow enemies down or something idk

[opal jolt]

hi woot

[rich veldt]

that's all thanks for dropping by

[opal jolt]

np woot

BYE WOOT!

[cedar vale]

alrighty then, thanks :)

[cedar vale]

might be worth it to get thoughts on it, maybe?
in the current configuration, I secure Void and Bulwark, then Temporal barrier and Refined armor, then Power conversion and Neutral response

think it'd be better to swap some around?

[rich veldt]

there's a chance that immortality shield and temporal barrier disrupt things slightly

I don't think void will matter very much

power conversion and neutral response are pointless disables, as are refined armor and bulwark, at least on winAI

[cedar vale]

from what I remember when I was testing things out, void was killing me if it wasn't one of the first 2 secures

[rich veldt]

odd. Does it not have Universal?

best disable it then, maybe I had a reason for that

I don't document anything I have no idea 😄

[cedar vale]

it does, but I was hit with neutral response and void

[cedar vale]

oh fr? bulwark is useless to disable?
I was going off of what I was told, meaning you do not want the enemies to have bulwark
but I guess that increased enemy armor doesn't matter if you're dealing infinite damage, ey?

[rich veldt]

yeah that's the idea.

very few things can interfere with winAI

[rich veldt]

this shouldn't work, but maybe I (or you) missed something.

[cedar vale]

most definitely me, your AI doesn't have this "list" formation for disables

[dire sparrow]

does anybody have a link to the most recent infinity bp in here

wait a fucking second pins exist in forums????

[broken marsh]

Yes?

[dire sparrow]

I HAD NO IDEA

THIS WHOLE TIME I HAD NO IDEA PINS EXISTED IN FORUMS

anyways

which one is infinity

idk which one means what

[rich veldt]

pretty much all of them are infinity

I don't make pre-inf BPs

winWEL is only barely infinity

[dire sparrow]

oh ok

[cedar vale]

hey woot, do you remember why you had to add the 3spam to winAI3?
Was it because of the space restraint?

[rich veldt]

because I needed to execute it faster than once a cycle.

it's called 3spam because Neutral Response was/is active 3

[cedar vale]

it's active once every 0.3 seconds, according to its structure

wait(0.2)
useinstant(active.index("spell.response.neutral"))
goto(1)

so, is there a benefit to activating it this much or is it because you didn't have the space to pair it with void every time you needed to?

[rich veldt]

don't need to pair it with void.

as for why it's got a wait, I don't remember. Probably a timing thing.

[cedar vale]

oh, it's nice to just spam it continuously?
Alrighty then

[cedar vale]

probably for energy reasons?

[rich veldt]

might be

[cedar vale]

also, do you get better results with winAI at 3x speed or 1x speed?

[broken marsh]

Probably 0.5x is better.

[rich veldt]

technically all BPs run better as slow as possible

cost/reward evaluation for time

[cedar vale]

so at 1x speed the bp is more efficient than at 3x speed, I'm understanding correctly?

[rich veldt]

marginally, yes. Also more stable.

[placid elk]

I'm trying to use winAI4 and it's not auto restarting after 60 like I thought it was supposed to. Did I have something not set up correctly? I also am running this in R1-1 assuming that is the correct one to farm resources on. not sure how to properly use this I suppose.
I grabbed BP and AI from link in the pins and it's not actually killing things after some time but not dying either.

[spare moat]

disable the light infinity stone

[placid elk]

died at 1:00 game time and 20s real time. is that correct?
and
winAI4 is only for forest easy right?

[spare moat]

yes, and no, winAI is for wherever gives the most resources, stats are irrelevant because everything already deals infinite damage

[placid elk]

what about town perks and boosters and stuff while running winAI4?

[spare moat]

have 1:1:1 resources:powerstones:town assets and all the resource drop boosters in all the slots

[placid elk]

wonderful! thank you.
Is winAI3 used for anything or is winAI 4 used for climbing to Inf 100m on R15-6 as well?

[spare moat]

winAI3 is an older version of winAI

[placid elk]

ok gotcha. wasn't clear to me from the pinned post

is WinAi4 used for pushing as well resources?
or is pushing done with WinRP? specifically chaos impossible inf 100b or whatever

[spare moat]

i mean, they are the best at brute force pushing, but they do not hold a candle to actual pushing

[placid elk]

what do you recommend I look at for actual pushing?

[spare moat]

burnORF is likely the best normal bp, though improvements can be made to make it easier to beat r15-6

[placid elk]

gotcha. I'll check it out. thank you

[rich veldt]

why would it only work on forest easy?

[broken marsh]

Isn't it designed for Chaos with those Something placements?

[rich veldt]

I mean, I discourage the use of either of these to do that, because they're extremely slow; but, yes, they're both capable of pushing infinities in any region-difficulty.

[rich veldt]

well, yes, I suppose it is specifically designed for chaos, but it will work absolutely anywhere and the performance dip from Something mis-alignment isn't much.

[rich veldt]

mate you're literally talking about WootImNoob's Astounding Idle 3.0 and WootImNoob's Astounding Idle 4.0; how was it not obvious that they're in the same series?

[rich veldt]

I strongly urge you to use winRP wherever it works, as it is vastly faster than winAI.

[rich veldt]

mate.
how dare you
if burnORF works, it'll be the second-fastest performance you come across, beaten only by winWE/MNC (latter not my own), and I do encourage you to try it; but, if it doesn't work, your next stop is the winRP family, including RpCat.

There's a whole bunch of other BPs that might also work. I've not tested them well so can't recommend them except for curiosity. For example: SkyBreaker.

[placid elk]

It was confusing me due to this line specifically calling out winAI3.0 for pushing

Infinity pushing at chaos insane, nightmare, or impossible (any region): winAI 3.0.
Why even have the version numbers outside of the archive list below if they didn't matter?

[placid elk]

I was confused by these lines in the pinned post:

Infinity pushing up to chaos insane or nightmare (any region): winRP+ 1.12, winRP3U, winWE experimental.
Infinity pushing at chaos insane, nightmare, or impossible (any region): winAI 3.0.
Since it says winRP and winWE are for up to chaos insane or nightmare (any region) that doesn't include chaos impossible. The second line in the quote says that winAI3.0 is for pushing chaos impossible so I interepreted that as winAI 3.0 is for pushing chaos impossible and winWP is not for that.
And I'm not sure what winRP3U is since it's not in the pinned post either but I can assume that it's related to winRP.

[rich veldt]

because I do not recommend 2.0 or earlier.
4.0 is technically experimental, and also iirc is identical to 3.0 except pruning, so there's not much reason to use it instead.

[placid elk]

so you recommend pushing infinity with winAI3.0 in certain cases and in others pushing with winRP+ 1.12 or winWE ?

[rich veldt]

these are guidelines. Specific tolerances depend on the user. At low infinities, winRP might work in chaos impossible but I don't guarantee it
[winRP3U is the latest 'experimental' release. I didn't link it because I can't guarantee performance out of it. winRP+ should work fine]

[rich veldt]

in general, I encourage using the fastest BP that works. The recommendations are recommendations based on their performance. I recommend burnORF, winWE, or MNC wherever they work, which is usually everywhere up to (and excluding) chaos nightmare; winRP if those don't work, although they have similar tolerances, and winAI if those don't work, which is usually for [impossible] and chaos nightmare.

[placid elk]

so for infinities, what would you recommend for pushing?
BurnORF: #1140396334558478347 message ?
ChImp Champ: #1239206059508236409 message ?

[rich veldt]

burnorf works great, no idea what chimp champ is.

I suggest you try both

[placid elk]

Is MNC Master's Nature Cannon?
#1153936256716259398 message

[broken marsh]

#1239206059508236409 is rather slow, because it relies on W.I.N.C.E. to kill enemies, and survive with Nature Armor.

[broken marsh]

Yes.

[placid elk]

ok, I'll check it out too. thank you !

[rich veldt]

OH is that what chimp champ is? Very fun.
Uh, there's another 'silly' BP similar to chimp champ then, which uses Fire Armor (and Gnarly Obsidian) instead. Again, I don't recommend it, but it does work, and it is faster than winAI

I don't think it's been published, I can look for it if you're interested.

i should mention that in the current paradigm, MNC can likely work for your stats even in some of the impossibles, but pushing these with 'damage' based BPs is delicate. You can still try it, but be warned that it might not work well for reasons unrelated to town stats.

The main culprit is frame rate, since enemies move so quickly they effectively 'teleport' and other such things.

[placid elk]

frame rate isn't an issue for me. I'm running at over 800fps most of the time. Thank you though. I understand it's fragile in some cases

[rich veldt]

should be fine, then. Try MNC, let us know how it goes.

[placid elk]

will do. I'm currently in a long run on forest easy to get higher inf. started at 2k inf and currently at 5.5b with 58e15 accel. I wonder if it can get to 100b inf already or not on Forest Easy. 🤞
But I definitely died a bunch super fast sub inf 100 with BurnORF in quite a few areas. I'm hoping that after this run, I'll be able to upgrade my forge numbers quite a bit and make a good go of chaos pushing for resource idle setting

[rich veldt]

sub inf 100
this is much of why I designed the winRP series of BPs. They should be good up to tens of thousands of infs almost anywhere (although maybe use one of the older versions with armour). If your goal is charging stones, winRP should work great.

[placid elk]

woot, last night, I tried to do R15-6 but kept dying 2s in.
happened in a few other reg/dif too.
I was tried winAI 3.0 and winAi 4.0 with both versions of the AI as well as the script.

I'm not struggling on fps as I'm running at around 800+fps even when using BurnORF.
I disabled/enabled light
had 1:1:1 resources:powerstones:town assets and all the resource drop boosters in all the slots

was in 3x so was 6s into fight game time

[rich veldt]

winAI is specifically robust to [] most user specs. No idea what you did to break it at 6s. Would need more info

[placid elk]

hmm. not sure what else I can say about it.
My modules were level 45 or so

[cedar scaffold]

ok, first things, do you have the blueprint? Are you sure you do not have other AIs enabled?

[placid elk]

I had that blueprint and I had disabled all other Tower Testing AIs (I left on dosboots, turbo miner and museum combiner and things like that

[rich veldt]

I have never had good results running turbo with my scripts.

d0s doesn't know why, since it shouldn't have any conflicts

an easy way to check for AI fault is to rerun at 1x

if it still breaks, user issue. Need more info to troubleshoot it

[placid elk]

ok I'll try it out tonight after my current push to 100b inf is complete. Thank you again for always being so helpful!

[slate tartan]

how to use winAI v4 properly? (The AI resets at 60s so I can't get to 90b/90b for max resources)

[broken marsh]

At MT12 it's probably better to just have a normal 7 contract BP. Like the Fragment Farmers, but optimized for resources.

[slate tartan]

ah ok so what would that be then? (assuming there's a BP in #1093895151065256067 for that)

thing is you suggested winAI before when I asked about resource grinding

[broken marsh]

That's... a good question. Not sure if any BPs are posted about that. (Do #1196292835926872107 have the contracts?)
Yeah, I did.

[slate tartan]

which one tho (the inf splash one has only 3 contracts)

also winAI v4 has 7 contracts anyway

[broken marsh]

Nevermind, they have 2/3 contracts.

[slate tartan]

yea

[rich veldt]

how so

just turn software off if it's too fast and rerun it if it's too slow

[slate tartan]

why do I die bc of the shield disappearing 90% of the time in this particular scenario here

[broken marsh]

That's... quite a few init scripts.
Also, did you forget that winAI needs Light Stone off?

[slate tartan]

Oh I didn’t know that I never heard that

Why don’t we use light stone?

[broken marsh]

The AI takes care of enemies with x♾️ Health, and disables that as well. But it needs x♾️ Damage to kill with Reflect.

[slate tartan]

ahh

turned it off but not taking care of the fact there's 2 tick scripts. Keep dying after 10 seconds

bc the energy drains

[broken marsh]

2 tick scripts is exactly what you need to keep up with game time with Fast Atomic Functions disabled.

[slate tartan]

ah ok

here's what the screen looks like 2 seconds before dying

I die immediately once the energy hits 0

[broken marsh]

Looks like Temporal Barrier isn't getting used?

[slate tartan]

I think it does, it just refreshes immediately

yea I caught it using it upon a run starting

very occasionally shield doesn't go down and it lasts 20 seconds before void expires and I die immediately

[broken marsh]

I am... not sure what can cause this.

[spare moat]

I'm going to want a video

[spare moat]

can i see a video?

[slate tartan]

what's the best way to record it?

[spare moat]

a video recording software like the one built into windows i would think

[slate tartan]

shows a few runs

[spare moat]

could i get a screenshot of the bottom of the skills list

[slate tartan]

would a video suffice? (I scroll to the bottom of skills list and then modules)

[spare moat]

yeah you're missing Immortality Shield

reimport the bp if you have the module

[slate tartan]

Oh right ty I didn’t know that idk if I accidentally removed it

that wasn't the problem

idk what is then

unless I chuck a bunch of random modules and hope one of them works

also, immortality shield isn't even in the linked BP

maybe it's a software issue (having a certain software on when I shouldn't?)

seems to be working now

btw I added advanced shield and shield amplifier to the BP as well to increase shield hp incase it did something

or not, as it's still not 100% consistent

maybe someone needs to do a longer test

eh maybe it was bc I added granite foundation + ocean gift unnecessarily

[placid elk]

I just run WinAI 4.0 without any changes and it works for me when I followed all the instructions:
Disable light:
Town assets resources: power stones: town assets 1:1:1
Universal Infinity perk active

I didn't change the BP at all.

Disabling light is optional, works either way for me as woot has stated above. But I included full list for what is expected when running winAI 4

[rich veldt]

the problem is you have 0 shield.

[rich veldt]

why the hell would you mess with it

[rich veldt]

it shouldn't.

[rich veldt]

disable darkness.

[slate tartan]

They kill the shield too?

I’ll try to get that lowered and revert the changes from the original BP (28 modules)

Is immortality shield necessary if it’s not in the BP import?

[rich veldt]

It does True damage. You can't block true damage.

[rich veldt]

No.

[rich veldt]

the reason Advanced Shield worked is that darkness era does true damage scaling to your health, not your shield. If your health is much higher than your shield, you lose your shield. If your shield is much higher than your health, nothing happens.

I could fix this for future by replacing basic with advanced, but I don't care enough. Somebody else can

[spare moat]

well, it still has to go through shield first

[rich veldt]

Yes. That's why the shield vanished. That's why energy economy died. That's why the BP failed.

[placid elk]

@rich veldt do you happen to know of a good timestamp to use for setting resource farming quadlock for WinAI?
I'd like to get all yellow things if possible: resources, cooldown, tower xp, town xp?

[rich veldt]

no i don't

[placid elk]

ok thanks

[rich veldt]

died at 12b

(456:17:58)

wth clyde.

died to an absurd amount of damage (e151)

means that the cycle got disrupted somehow

ugh

I can fix it, but it'll mess with a bunch of other stuff

oh no I'm in the wrong place for some reason
it's fine, by remarkable coincidence this is technically topical.

I may as well continue.
I can't fix it easily. I'm not sure what to do 😦

without harmonizer I can't get the immortality engine to work. With it, there's too much demand on energy for it to be stable.

[finite cedar]

mine is dying right at 44s ingame

everytime

mby its not meant to run at 100b Metallicruins

[broken marsh]

Which BP?

[finite cedar]

Idel 3

had few more software active

its now running 1min

[rich veldt]

run at 1x speed report results

also lmk what happens to your energy during the run

[finite cedar]

energy full all the time 100%
x1 speed --> still 60s

had a few runs now

every time right at 1min

[untold dragon]

Remove light stone

[rich veldt]

still 60s
isn't that a feature?

[smoky walrus]

hey im looking for a blueprint for a while now for MT13 where I need a record of Infinity 2 record and or a good fragment farm and such but everything i find either says I only need 3 regions at Infinity 1 or require modules that i dont have because they need Infinity Modules that I dont have.

[broken marsh]

Your best bet is probably getting Fragments with something like #1196292835926872107 or #1257712401143566406.

[smoky walrus]

thx ill try those

[rich veldt]

otherwise you could try winWEL, it was designed for very early infinity phase

[queen ice]

link to top because I’m lazy to scroll
#1094013225915396127 message

[broken marsh]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1104831301451796602.gif?size=512&quality=lossless&name=check_pins

[steep crater]

I might be grave digging here but, someone mentioned woot using a borf build to xp farm, is that available anywhere or is that old news

trying to xp grind

[broken marsh]

A Borf build is something like #1140396334558478347. I don't think Woot posted any BPs with Borf here, but I could be wrong.

[steep crater]

he mentioned it if u search xp farm in the discord,

"Noodl [UwU 90/90] — 12/17/2024 2:32 PM
woot what bp are you using for town xp farm

WootImNoob — 12/17/2024 2:32 PM
using my borf bp rn
I might get better results with winWE but I might have to tune for it"

I'm refering to these messages lol. i know im reaching haha but is that basically the burnorf? or is that good for xp?

[broken marsh]

Yeah, I think it's almost #1140396334558478347. For a good XP idle you need to kill enemies ASAP.

[rich veldt]

I have a local version of the traditional BurnORF that I developed and maintain independently. It's not published because burnorf already exists and I don't want the tickets.

it's probably not even superior to burnorf tbh. Just use burnorf 😛

[rich veldt]

get hype for new winWE lads

[glass violet]

truly

[rich veldt]

WootImNoob's What Even [is this BP] Édition de Luxe A.K.A winWEED (lmao)

Fancy French Name for a Fancy English BP
Certified to infinity damage in under a minute of warm-up in Chaos Nightmare without anvil lock. Gets about e290 on Chaos Impossible without anvil lock. Should be able to hit infinity with moderate anvil lock.
Uses Sky Blessing sorcery to stay alive. Expect a few false starts, should be stable afterwards short of severe frame drops. Will probably break if Sky Blessing behaviour is changed via update.
Attachment comes with BP, a somewhat-renovated version of the winWE AI. If you're not happy with it, let me know and I'll nag codboy to refactor it.
[Prefers high frame rate. At least 60, maybe more.]

[hotfix for AI below. Only winWE AI:Module Disable was changed. #1094013225915396127 message]

For those of you that can't or won't read old posts (paraphrased):

Universal-Nature infinity element stone perk active. Light infinity element stone perk active. Fire infinity element stone perk active. For best results, lock nature/light/darkness/earth/tower damage nodes in anvil. If you're having trouble, check power stones, town perks, beacons, and lab experiments.
[Also, set Advanced Heal to tier 1 for best results.]
[After testing, here's some hotfixes you can try: swap Power Conversion, Basic Shield, and Conductor; for Infinity Energy, Energy Regeneration, and Moon Energy. Swap Ocean Gift or Death Wish for Universal Shield. Change Bulwark disable for Universal Shield.]
When submitting support tickets for me to review, please give details of what you think went wrong; such as: the element that kills the tower, the amount of damage the tower took on death, the time elapsed in the run, the status of infinity module secures or era disables, and so on.
Please also let me know if you're having trouble with the import or with configuration.

also no I am not rewriting the bp name to Édition, which would be the most correct spelling. Not only is that a lot of work, it is peak English tradition to spell French words wrong, like 'deluxe'.

I will edit the post tho one moment.

uh oh I noticed something sketch. Will investigate, might have to republish. That'd suck.

[glass violet]

I didn't notice anything wrong

[rich veldt]

just a tiny bit of wonk on restarts.

I did notice it's not working right on universe impossible, though. I can fix it

[glass violet]

yeah it seems to suck at starting up sometimes

[rich veldt]

hm...

better hotfix for the AI. Previous had some weirdness still. Changed module disable logic a bit more than slightly. Please report any issues.
xVO9SgNBEH6V42pZ7hJBEIskaGFhF7AwKeb25s4h+3PsD2cIAQvbYOMT+CiXF3NvJYUhgleozcfO3zfzDTub1HJDjbPpZfKwSYE70ioa6cJnWYY1KjTEWa2dpmpR8BB2oFyMjiLmEbNjzHOuZQOGrFas1L4QuHCNgDUa9tQcMZ1/Ml0ducenqQ846V4n6VkSR81HNUhkUpdeILPIvcFTTfKRfSQUJSMptXEgyK0PHD+S+81Mvyq3e+5e2HSQ1KoFIRg6NArEIIEX/yAQ97v9bpjAHqsSK1QWWeFFC2Y1SOff/tvuvXuL9CBn6TLMWfiyRhdOLQtGqC7p6+3l47gEsnPdopmjdaTqWEmy8cJiTO1tFfLCO72L+0quyUIYut9FA3wFdQy2pO5vkult7/YWZ4fuFQSq7XL7AQ==

I am now crushing universe impossible as god intended.

some wonkiness with the logic actually. I can tune it a little more. One moment.

nah just checked, it's fine as-is.

might be time to publish winRP3U and maybe also winNER. Whatchu think

[glass violet]

wtf is rp3u?

[rich veldt]

this is winRP3U 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

yep still certified for forest impossible. Wonderful.

iirc it could carry up to region 8 or so

[glass violet]

oh that's what it is

[rich veldt]

if I used sky blessing I could probably have it survive chimp but then it's just winNER so what's the point

the goal of the winRP series was to be consistently unkillable

okay having a hard time at jungle. rip

ugh, the AI is bugged on winRP3U

can't publish it until that's fixed and I can't be bothered to fix it.

atm winRP3U can't handle restarts

[glass violet]

just wait til codboy is available

[rich veldt]

nah I'll just publish it with a stipulation that it's jank.

ok fixed the restart issue I think.

[inner jolt]

ocean gift's bad, death wish more damage

[rich veldt]

do I not have death wish on there? whoops.

I'll fix in a sec.

okay, I've fixed on my version. Not changing the published version coz that's a lot of work.

lemme publish the janky winRP3U rq.

[inner jolt]

the contracts on it are so bad lmao

[glass violet]

that doesn't seem to be the point of it

[broken marsh]

RP3U isn't for fragments or resources.

[inner jolt]

well my skyborf that can do the same, has 6/8

[glass violet]

this has neither sky nor borf

[rich veldt]

WootImNoob's Reflect Push Pro Plus Ultra (A.K.A. winRP3U)

Uses Energy Sphere instead of <Element> Barrier to defeat enemies. Extremely sensitive to tuning - use at your own risk. Found to clear Forest Impossible with my specs. This BP is technically experimental - please report any weird behaviour or suggested improvements.
Simple-to-use: light stone on, consider town perks and anvil on power stones, damage, and resistance/health.

[rich veldt]

has sky actually

[glass violet]

oh it does?

[rich veldt]

cool story, bro.

[glass violet]

didn't even notice honestly

[rich veldt]

oh are you talking about winRP3U? That doesn't.

[glass violet]

idk

[rich veldt]

I assumed you were talking about winWEED because why the fuck would you compare a reflect BP to a projectile BP

that is actual peak tism.

[rich veldt]

my goal was to try to reach ~e308 damage without locking damage because I don't want to mess with my town xp lock. If I wanted resources I'd just use winNER. If I wanted fragments, I'd just use mp's BP. Why the fuck would I need contracts on winWE you idiot.

[uneven karma]

woot has gone insane with those bp names

[rich veldt]

I also wanted to avoid using Borf for several reasons. Generally, the winWE line doesn't, and I wasn't going to break that tradition since it's a huge BP refactor to make it work. Also, that BP already exists - burnORF. So, winWEED gets e300 damage and ~670 aps with no anvil lock. I consider that an absolute win.

I'll publish my local copy of winNER in a moment. I don't remember what AI I use. I'm not entirely sure I use one.

[glass violet]

the perfect bp for people who have too much skill issue for perfect space

[rich veldt]

WootImNoob's Novel Exploitative Resourcer (A.K.A. winNER)

It was novel when I made it. I then refused to publish for six months.

8/8 contract resource idle setting BP. Comes with appropriate AI.
[hotfix for the AI here (fixes era logic) #1094013225915396127 message]

Uses Sky Blessing voodoo to survive. Can technically do so indefinitely, but not designed to do so. Can push Chaos Impossible at reasonable pace (but other BPs - including winWEED and most borf BPs - can do so faster). Recommended use in resource idle generation. May suffer false starts.
Remember to set town perks to resources/assets/power stones, anvil to resources, to toggle the universal infinity element stone perk, and to install resource boosters in factory, as well as anything else appropriate for improving resource idles, before use. For best results, turn 3x speed off and set framerate to 60fps. Don't ask me why.
[AI handles everything. For manual use, do not disable universal or neutral era element shields, as they are important for maintaining stability. For best results, also do not disable darkness & electricity.]

Published version ships with Absolute Zero. If you're pushing infinities, remove this module.
[other instructions also don't apply - keep max framerate and 3x speed for pushing infinities.]

Possible room for improvement is looping the AI indefinitely instead of aborting at 64 seconds. I'm used to setting idles quickly, but previous testing with similar BPs under similar conditions shows that longer runs can produce better averages.
[If you're using this to push, remove the final line in sync or try changing it to goto 1. Untested, do so at your risk.]

Please report any issues or suggestions for me to address.

[glass violet]

speaking of winrar, when winrar bp

[rich veldt]

when I feel like it.

[undone ermine]

You might want to add Era instructions, those are important

[rich veldt]

Pretty sure it has none o.o

winner is peculiar in that it, iirc, works without AI

[undone ermine]

Uni should stay enabled, Darkness and Neutral are also beneficial to keep

[rich veldt]

I'll mention it

[undone ermine]

Oh, and Electricity, if I recall

[rich veldt]

I think it depends a lot on the BP. For winNER, only neutral and uni are valuable

and maybe air

[undone ermine]

This is the Sky Blessing + WINCE one, right?

[rich veldt]

i think so. I'd have to check to be sure

[undone ermine]

Darkness also counts as an extra hit, and I believe Ne0 did some tests that concluded that turning Air off was better

And Lightning makes them approach faster

So that's something

[rich veldt]

oh, right, air projectile travel time is a thing.

[inner jolt]

yeah

[rich veldt]

the extra hit might be useful for darkness I suppose, and unlike my other BPs I suppose sky blessing doesn't care much about true damage.

[inner jolt]

neutral dark uni and elec stay on, else off, afaik

[undone ermine]

Yeah

[rich veldt]

alright. the AI probably doesn't do that, but I can fix my local ver and add instructions.

published version is okay. Doesn't disable erak but does disable dark and doesn't disable air.

I'll send out a hotfix I suppose.

this should be it.

hotfix for winNER, changes the era logic to better reflect the instruction spec.
[replaces winNER:era]
zZWxasMwEEB/JWguwmmTFgrtEOjaoWud4SxfnCOyLKRT3RDy7z07NJDQoZ6URfjOendPQkgHFU0gz1E9zz4PCgxT58ZAlako5vMGHQYyugfi5JjsKW261kOg2Dldd6myWLK3sMegv31ZGanB4HiYWyzG8f71ZSSXDbSoa4ogkMYA2nSR/0SWlpotq7vZSaW4Jv8D5fKvagg7hzFmN5Fe9IUhgs2uMoxPDhOHG5Gp0KJhaU68vwmhRwecAk4889dUzhUsNjTZ/5LJeuX0wBimXjmXUFZ/hMDbqf6XUE7/B6Cpuz8ia2GqVDfI8nQVEsjEms5v2fCbWp9sxHPspLh8K6k7dPRgdtCMmZ7c+9vHkEwRV79VNyD0cX38AQ==

[broken marsh]

Is my Shield supposed to immediately evaporate with winWEED?

I guess not, since it doesn't seem to happen anymore...

[rich veldt]

it's essentially a feature.

Power Conversion energy recovery strategies don't require a powerful shield. In practice, many of my builds will lose shield do overwhelming damage then recover it all on the next hit due to Conductor

[broken marsh]

Well, I don't seem to be able to recover it... Is that an issue?

[rich veldt]

not if your energy's good.

just means the on-frame is dead rather than full.

[broken marsh]

And because I'm not able to recover Shield, I don't get any Energy from PC.

[rich veldt]

that's the concern.

I have an idea for what causes it but not what will fix it.

the easiest fix may be to use a different shield recovery module

I'll see what options there are

removing death wish, gonna add...

transformator isn't super reliable due to element

hm.

options are erak or water

[rich veldt]

are you definitely losing energy?

[broken marsh]

I'm not gaining it, so I can't even use it.

[rich veldt]

oh, you're flatlined. That counts.

I can't replicate the issue.

there's a fix maybe. One sec.

ok I managed to reproduce, not sure why that worked.

okay I am fairly certain why it happens.

not confident as such though

I think this is why.

[broken marsh]

Both IS and SB ran out?

[rich veldt]

so, the solution is to use something that isn't power conversion.

[broken marsh]

Defense Overload?

[rich veldt]

...

not super reliable.

harmonizer makes everything too expensive

transformator and absorption are the only practical options I can think of

[broken marsh]

Well, regions 1, 2, 4 and 11 don't have either Water or Electricity enemies, but I think it's fine.

[rich veldt]

I can't work miracles :/

the only way to definitively solve this problem in all cases would be to use conventional recovery which will hurt cooldown

it's not a terrible option but I'd rather not do it.

it's fine with conventional regen

cooldowns aren't great though

you can try that. Drop shield, conductor, and conversion; take up inf energy, energy regen, and sun/moon

[broken marsh]

Yeah, that works.

But I also just randomly die, is that something that can be fixed? It's happening rather often...

[rich veldt]

no easy fix to that :/

try to maximise the number of air attacks on the tower

let me check something

ok I just swapped in uni shield.

I think that's the best workaround

TBH you might not even need sky blessing. Technically uni shield should be enough

sky blessing is primarily for protecting you during heavy lag spikes, which uni shield won't help with

I tested by starting on inf 1 in forest, which has no air and only 4 lanes. It's stable for me at unlimited fps.

so around 500

looks worse at 60 but still stable

really does not like 30fps, but still stable.

mentioned hotfixes in the inspec

[sturdy cloud]

home #1094013225915396127 message
winAI 4 aka winAI-FUN

Removed basically everything. Personal tests show it's about as effective as winAI 3. Test both before choosing.
Special 'thanks' to @inner jolt for pushing me to waste my time on this.
AI same name, so remove old version. Works like previous versions (i.e. 'out-the-box', no user input required). For best results, maximise resource modifier via infinity perk, power stones, town perks, asteroids, construction firm, anvil, dyson, factory boosters, nexus, whatever else. LMK of any issues.
[As before, disable most/all softwares before use. It is intended to be used at a fixed wave for maximum resource yield, and softwares will mess with that. [redacted for dumb]. If you're using it to gain infinities, A; please use a different, better BP, and B; keep all softwares on as appropriate.]

[spare moat]

did you just copy the text of the message?

[rich veldt]

I approve of this message

[inner jolt]

https://tenor.com/view/crycat-crying-cat-crying-cat-thumbs-up-thumbs-up-ok-gif-22851318

[worn sage]

hey im using the 4.0 bp but im barely killing anything? im using the winai with it, maybe im in the wrong area or do i need some softwares on? im in chaos easy is this meant for forest. sorry been ages since i last played

[rich veldt]

that's a lot of extremely unhelpful information lol.
Okay, so; first question did you turn the light stone on

[worn sage]

sorry lol lemme check

i did not

[spare moat]

good

[rich veldt]

actually that's.... not good.

that would be the simple problem.

Okay I'm gonna need more info

chaos easy. What era, what inf, what wave

[worn sage]

theres A LOT of info in here and i must have skipped it

[rich veldt]

did you make any adjustments to the BP or AI or do any manual inputs

[worn sage]

idk about era but i wasnt in inf yet under 10m era i think

[rich veldt]

inspec demands the light stone not be used. You did fine keeping it off.

[rich veldt]

it is almost certainly not going to work before infinity.

[worn sage]

oh i need to be in inf

[rich veldt]

It's untested for pre-inf

it might work. I have no idea

it won't be fast

at high enough era with low enough era dividers it should technically still work

[worn sage]

i only want resource and xp gain tbh

[rich veldt]

but it'll be limited by enemy attack speed, which is atrocious in pre-inf

[worn sage]

should i use a diff bp then?

[rich veldt]

truthfully, you don't need winAI yet.

[spare moat]

resource gain is more effective on a higher era and inf, xp gain is more effective with a bp that actually hits things

[rich veldt]

resource demands pre-inf are low enough that you can get them without trying too hard

also, as yoshi said: don't use winAI for xp. It's dreadful for it

at best it'll be about a quarter as effective as a 'proper' BP

[worn sage]

im mt15 so i can push inf i just wasnt sure hbow this bp works

[rich veldt]

ah.

in that case I really have to wonder why in the world you used it pre-inf

I'll explain the mechanism. I leave it to you to figure out how to make it work.

[worn sage]

well i read somewhere turn off all softwares so i did lmao

[rich veldt]

it reflects hits. Era shield increases damage to infinity, so the tower reflects infinity damage and kills everything always.

it stays alive because of a gimmick with Temporal Barrier

That's it. Everything else is fluff

turning off software is optimal. That's to stop you going from 95b waves to 100 waves

it'll obliterate your resource idle

[spare moat]

wave restart and basic accel inscreasing software should be kept on

wave streaming, surge, and vortex basically

[worn sage]

right okay, i assume some era and inf software as well

[spare moat]

if you're at 95 billion waves and eras, not really

[worn sage]

okay thanks both

[azure pilot]

any subsitute for Division shield for WinWEL?

[rich veldt]

uh, 'don't worry about it'?

[spare moat]

more resistance?

[rich veldt]

also if it's in winWEL it is probably pretty easy to get, so maybe just get it

[spare moat]

1000 fabrics isnt the easiest thing ever

[azure pilot]

yea no, i completed all challanges, manually crafted factory to t10, but i am not doing bosses for exotics for it xD thank you 😄

[spare moat]

at least a module does exist to help a lot

[azure pilot]

No one told me about the Pressurize and Condense modules
100% for exotic gem per boss kill is broken
Also the pressurize 1blue gem per level of module on an enemy killed is broken(mine is lvl 29 so 29gems per kill is soo good)

[broken marsh]

Except Pressurize is very much useless, since you can gain more Gems from Mine with Town Perks into Mining Rewards.

[azure pilot]

Yeah but you can use the Idle on it if you had pressurize in a run

For gems

[broken marsh]

That isn't good either.

[summer river]

What is best winNER or winAI4 or winAI3?

[spare moat]

winNER is the best but i think it requires Module stats you don't have.

[rich veldt]

nah it just needs high infinity since it relies on attack speed.

iirc

winNER is technically the best option

[summer river]

Why when i use winNER after like a minute in tower testing, it just leave the mode and send me to the lobby?

[spare moat]

because it is for generating an idle

[untold dragon]

Huh, thought winAI4 was the best... learned something

[summer river]

But, then i need to join again

[tribal holly]

@summer river has earned the Ember role!

[spare moat]

winAI4 cannot compete with 8 contracts

[spare moat]

you need to do a run to get a high inf era and wave and then use this bp to get an idle

[untold dragon]

Then I'm confusing that one

The one I use is also 8 contacts

Oh, that's the non named one in chat

Maybe it is named winNer

[summer river]

And, what software should i use?

ANd, if i do a run in Infinity, the winNER dont have the infinity attack or foundation to survive.

[undone ermine]

That's probably the old version of my version then

[undone ermine]

It doesn't need the attack, 'cos it's killing with WINCE

It should have Foundation, though

I've imported it, and it does have it:

[summer river]

What code do you imported?

[undone ermine]

This^

[spare moat]

you don't need infinity attack to survive

[summer river]

ok

[rich veldt]

read the instruction specification.

pretty much all your questions are answered there.

read it, and lmk if you have further questions.

[summer river]

Why using winNER pauses the round all the time¿

[broken marsh]

You have 3 lag savers active.
I don't think winNER even needs them?

[summer river]

wait

Ok, thank's and, i need to restart manually or programming 1 seconds later or the AI do it¿

[broken marsh]

I don't think the AI restarts by itself. Probably could just set the auto restart timer.

[summer river]

ok

and if i push infinity like to 500 infinity, i will get more resources¿

[undone ermine]

Also, if you're running this to set an idle, then you should do so at x1

[undone ermine]

btw. I don't think the 60 fps instruction is correct here? It does voodoo on Borfs, but when we (Ne0 and I) were testing Beyond Red (not a Borf), running at 60 fps vs Unlimited lead to a 5% loss in kps

[summer river]

I should play on x1 and 60fps when i use winNER¿

[rich veldt]

why is winNER broken
yes I have a bunch of mods why does that matter
no those mods aren't breaking my game, it's your mod that's breaking the game. Fix your shit mod.
shit dev 0/10 do not use

please don't mix-and-match without permission. I am not going to fix something that you broke.

[summer river]

?

[rich veldt]

I tested and it was marginally better.

[summer river]

WootImNoob, when i use winNER i should use x1 velocity and 60 fps? Or what is the best config to more resources¿?

[rich veldt]

I'm just upset that people keep telling me my stuff doesn't work because they failed to follow instruction.

[rich veldt]

this would probably be the best, yeah.

tests show that a smooth and consistent framerate produces the best results

[summer river]

You stuff work's

look

[rich veldt]

no, I know it works. That's the problem

[summer river]

before i only get like e60 res

[rich veldt]

I'm glad it works for you, though

[summer river]

ty

[rich veldt]

also I might be in a bad mood for unrelated reasons

[summer river]

But, it's work better with unlimited framerate in my case

[rich veldt]

makes sense

as long as it's stable it should be fine

[undone ermine]

Huh, interesting - I'll run some tests next time I'm setting Resources

[limpid leaf]

question about winNER, is daigoparry essential? I've installed everything as specified, have applied the hotfix for the era AI, 60fps, x1 speed, and yet tower testing just mostly stalls and kills almost nothing. Diagoparry is the only module I don't have but I thought those 15 hits wouldn't be essential, unless my assumption was wrong

[broken marsh]

You need to turn off Light Infinity Stone.

[limpid leaf]

oooh

lemme try that

false starts for now

but seems to be doing more

[broken marsh]

Pretty sure it's more prone to false starts at lower infinities, because enemies don't have as much Attack Speed as they do on the higher ones.

[limpid leaf]

oh that'd make sense, my infinities on this save are all at 1 rn

I guess I'll start pushing them and see if I can retry this in a few days