Woot's BP Compendium

[rich veldt]

then use winAI? That's what it was designed for.

[willow lion]

I dont have max era dividers

[willow lion]

It lasts like 5 seconds

[rich veldt]

user issue. It's supposed to last 20

which is long enough to get an idle

which is what it was designed for

try pausing immediately after a round, or turning 3x speed off, or setting your fps higher

[willow lion]

My fps ranges from like low 2 digits to 100

[rich veldt]

that's not great tbh

[willow lion]

90% of the time near the bottom

[rich veldt]

pause at the start of a round. winAI takes about 6 frames to boot

which at 20fps is about a third of a second

which is plenty of time for enemies to approach the tower

[willow lion]

Ah thanks it works now

[gleaming drum]

quick q - any reason there's not Awareness in the BP for WinAI?

[vivid notch]

probably cause it doesn't do anything? It increases the xp in a run, not town xp, so it doesn't help idle

[gleaming drum]

thinking of the getting software/infs disabled quicker for those (like me) that haven't disabled them yet

[vivid notch]

do you see a difference if you add it? I don't remember what winAI needs to disable, but given that it's invincible for the whole duration I wouldn't expect it to need much

[gleaming drum]

marginal, but it messed up the other skills

[maiden moon]

@late oyster

[warm void]

It doesn't buys dividers

or the IA doesn't works

Also I don't have light infinity stone yet

[warm void]

With an BP/AI, 95% of time it's a tank that destroy my tower but the element is always different (sometimes it's nature, sometimes earth, ...)

[warm void]

Ah, the tower destroy everytime after 1 ingame minute, the survival time is the same whatever the world and the difficulty

[tough basin]

its not meant to

it assumes you have light stone

[tough basin]

this is exactly how its meant to work

winAI sets an idle

which is just surviving for 1m

[warm void]

So, it's make sure to set autorestart at 1s

So, it's better grind Light stone charging before all others

[rich veldt]

feature

[rich veldt]

'it' WHICH ONE

[rich veldt]

'it' WHICH ONE

winAI is not supposed to. Many of the others will, but assume your costs are free but make priorities in case they're not.

sorry, that's elements. A few do buy dividers

but yes I do assume light for all of them and include instructions if you don't have it

[tough basin]

dont all your builds work under the assumption you dont have light, and need to era creep?

[rich veldt]

i can't diagnose anything unless I know which AI you have an issue with so please tell me next time.

no?

winAI doesn't wtf

it literally breaks apart if you use light stone

[tough basin]

oh right

[warm void]

At least, whith the tower survives 1 minutes is good for who doesn't have light stone

[tough basin]

i forgot winAI cant use light stone, sorry

[rich veldt]

winAI is not supposed to use the light stone. It will stop working if you do that.

[warm void]

Infinity 1K is very long to farm with this module

It's 13B Eras / round

Sometimes, there is a bug that it doesn't buy HP divider

[rich veldt]

it wasn't designed to get high infinities it just happens to be the best thing for it

mate I just looked at the AI

the only reasons it wouldn't buy the health dividers are 1: your fps is too low; and 2: your xp is too low. I can't fix either of these issues.

I could move the logic somewhere else but that introduces new problems

it's fine it shouldn't matter.

[warm void]

For you, how much time you took for charge Light Stone for the 1st time?

[somber bridge]

like not long at all, less than 2 hours

you just have to know what you're doing

[timid sparrow]

which one should i use if im trying to start my infinity stone charging, never charged one but i really need a lot of infinities on all regions but idk which one to use

[open crypt]

some people said universal stone and some people said light stone, im start with light stone

[timid sparrow]

No like which BP should use from thus ppace

This place

Atm I'm using winai I think

[vivid notch]

winAI will take forever though

it's a last resort sort of BP, when you absolutely need to push further and no other BP will survive

[open crypt]

im sorry, im still figuring out that too. theres too much bp just in this treads

and im a new at this game

[vivid notch]

in general winAI's purpose is to survive 1 minute on absolutely any difficulty (because it's literally indestructible for that time) which works well for setting an idle score on any inf you pushed to

but since it can't capitalize on growing inf acceleration (since it will die shortly after 1 minute) it will take a very long time to get anywhere

[open crypt]

is winAI will restarting on its own after 1 minutes?

like WinUSB 3.2?

[vivid notch]

if I remember correctly default AI will not even wait to die but just quit after the 1 minute marker

[open crypt]

i literlly didn't know where's winAI bp and ai is. theres so much variant bp in here

[vivid notch]

there is a reason Woot gets his own thread 😛

but pinned message has handy links to all important BPs

[open crypt]

im currently using the last one(named WinUSB 3.2 if i remember). it looks funny

but it works

[vivid notch]

called "winUSB 3.2 (do not use)" in the pinned message? 😄

[open crypt]

yes, am i allow it? if not, i can just simply erase the bp and the ai from my worksshop and headquarter

[vivid notch]

I mean, you're allowed to do whatever, there's no BP police, but it probably means that the author believes there is a BP that's strictly better (in that you lose nothing and probably gain something by using another bp)

[open crypt]

well, i might try another time. rn, i just need to grinding infinity while waiting the stone to get charge

[rich veldt]

you're thinking of winWEF.
winAI doesn't abort the run until it dies, which is USUALLY at t=61s, but if you have the light stone on, are at low era, or decided to max the dividers, this could take longer.

[rich veldt]

#1094013225915396127 message

[rich veldt]

I urge you not to use it not because it's broken (it isn't, it works fine), but because winAI works better.
I suggest you use winAI instead of winUSB. You're welcome to use either, both, or neither.

[rich veldt]

here's my rule of thumb:

use winWE.
if winWE doesn't work, use rpcat ( #1094005500091318395 )
if rpcat doesn't work, use winAI.
if winAI doesn't work, user issue.

'why rpcat?'
cat bothered to update it with a couple modules that released recently. I haven't yet updated winRP, so it's currently notably worse than rpcat.

[finite iron]

Is it ok to use a strong bp like winAI 2.23 for early inf

[uneven karma]

WinAI is not strong, it supposed to die in 60 seconds

[vivid notch]

winWEL is the BP for very early inf, and afterwards there is a comment right above yours that lists what your BP decisionmaking process should generally be

[finite iron]

Ok thank you

[runic moat]

is winai 2.23 supposed to be like that? what Im doing wrong?

[tame niche]

it should die at approx 61 sec, yes. WinAI is supposed to set an idle then die. When it hits 60 s, it should die because the idle should be set.

[runic moat]

okay, then what town perks do i need for this bp? powerstones and dmg?

or resources and town assets?

[tame niche]

resource boost as it's meant to set an idle

[runic moat]

im dying before 30sec

[tame niche]

well then read the readme and use the recommended fixes/settings

[runic moat]

from anvil I need resource drop boost too right?

[tame niche]

you might need the damage perks due to your stats being lower than woot's

[tame niche]

that's basically guaranteed to not be worth losing a good lock on damage perks

[runic moat]

and what about uni inf stone? for x10k resource drop

I have lvl100 modules and it still doesnt work...

[tame niche]

probably not worth the damage
if you survive without the damage boost/the bp isn't using elemental damage, sure

[tame niche]

you might be on too high a inf for your stats
anvil stats also matter a lot

also, turn off 3x and turn your graphics to min

[runic moat]

is that okay or i need more?

[tame niche]

fine for now
e9 is probably the low end of intended

[runic moat]

ohh

someone said that with winai he got like e80 fragments, is it actually possible for this bp?

cuz I dont understand how he did that

[bold basin]

no

no one got e80

e8 mby lol

[runic moat]

from 60sec run I got this

[rich veldt]

done properly, a person that had just entered era yesterday would be able to use it I think.

[runic moat]

maybe, but its still a lot, at least for me, considering how much i get

[tame niche]

i assume that the real problem is likely just dying to framerate

[bold basin]

yours isnt bad

[rich veldt]

remember winAI utilises caidryn tech. It is invincible, and does infinite damage. No amount of stats can make it better.

[bold basin]

sounds like wizzardry

[runic moat]

dont think so, I have 80-100 fps

[rich veldt]

the two issues I've seen people report with winAI are low fps and using the light stone when you mustn't do that.
Or, equivalently, dividing damage which you also mustn't do.

[runic moat]

I dont have lag problems

[rich veldt]

fps isn't lag.

an fps change is lag.

[tame niche]

if your fps is consistently 80+ then you probably shouldn't die
i'd recommend 100+ but not all pcs can handle that

[runic moat]

ohh so I dont need to use light stone?.. but why?

[tame niche]

because that's how the damage works

[rich veldt]

because it's fucking magic is why.

[runic moat]

hmm

[tame niche]

era damage multiplier -> reflect -> stupid high damage out
and use invincibility to survive
aka fucking magic

[rich veldt]

funfact I only need ~0.2 seconds of invulnerability and I could take winAI to the moon.

I'm probably never getting it, but it's nice to think about

[tame niche]

if anyone made a buff duration mod it'd happen

[runic moat]

do I need 3x speed?

[rich veldt]

might make it worse

[tame niche]

3x speed will make it less resistant to lag spikes
or at least will make them more likely to kill you

[runic moat]

turned off light stone but it didnt make results way better

[tame niche]

go check the idle though
it should be much higher
also you should be able to run universal stone resource boost with light off

[rich veldt]

+213.56%
If you're using it to get fragments then you're using it wrong. It's designed to get resources.

[runic moat]

still the same

[rich veldt]

If you're using it to get fragments then you're using it wrong. It's designed to get resources.

[runic moat]

oh okay now its better

well I tried winwef (for frags) and it basically gives me better resource idle then frag

[vivid notch]

guys, there is no real problem, it does die exactly at 61 seconds as intended, it's in the screenshot

[finite iron]

Which bp should i use for inf farming

[rich veldt]

winWE, rpcat, or winAI; in order

[finite iron]

I tried the first 2 but they didn't work

But i will try them again

It won't hurt

[rich veldt]

winWE has fairly high requirements on the user, If you're early to infinity, you might want to try winWEL which was designed for that.
winRP and rpcat have much lower requirements and can do about as much as winWE can, but it's slower.

winAI will work for anyone that has the AI and BP, but is incredibly slow, only valuable if nothing else works.

[finite iron]

Where does the inf 25 bp stand compared to winWE and winWEL

In speed and efficiency

[uneven karma]

winWE is mt15

winWEL is start of mt12

inf 25 is mt12-15

there also winWELP that supposed to be mt12-15 but idk about it

[rich veldt]

winWEL and winWELP aren't designed to get inf 25, but probably could. They're more designed to be things you use when you've just started and don't really know what you're doing.

they're powerful enough to beat infinity enemies but idk if they're much good besides that

[finite iron]

I will just try all four of these and see which one is better

[rich veldt]

in 25 bp isn't even comparable to winWE, they do completely different things

if you're even considering the 25 bp then I suggest you avoid winWE until later, I have no idea how it works so early on

[rich veldt]

winWELP is just winWEL with infinity modules added. Hits harder, still a much weaker version of winWE

[finite iron]

So i will try win WE and inf 25 bp and see which gets my further

Or when one fails i will try the other one

[dark steeple]

winwel/winwelp are what helped me get up to the point that I could use winwe

[timid sparrow]

which win we should i use?

winwe*

[rich veldt]

depends on use case.

winWEL if you're new to infinity. winWELP if you're not. winWE if your stats are good, winWEF if you want fragments and your stats are very good. There's versions of burnorf which are designed to get fragments which I hear are better than winWEF, so you can try those.

[finite iron]

i cant find one named winWELP

[glass violet]

it's in the same message as winWEL

[finite iron]

oh oki

[digital orchid]

The Ai for WinRP is somehow not working for me, as in no matter how i copy it the game wont recognize it. weird.

[rich veldt]

is it definitely an AI

[digital orchid]

always get this

[tame niche]

make sure you are triple clicking and getting the whole import

[rich veldt]

also link the one you're trying to import, I can try

[digital orchid]

i is r stoopid, just fixed

thanks for the suggestion dfire

[finite iron]

what inf perks should i disable while using winWE?

[uneven karma]

It says in bp

[rich veldt]

as a heuristic, anything that increases the damage enemies do to the tower, or anything that increases enemy health, enemy shield, or enemy resistance.

I don't think winWE has any 'especially dangerous' modules so it's just stuff that improves tolerance.

[mossy stag]

with winai2.23 if i use the floof stone manually at around 20second in game time it gives like 3x more idle rewards

otherwise it waits for 40 seconds ingame time and double casts floof stone

[rich veldt]

sounds like a bug in the logic

might be a frame issue, might be something I did, idk

I could check later, thanks for bringing it up

[unreal seal]

why do i go to era 10B

i have new bounds and no bounds off

and wawe streaming off

[hazy bane]

critical wavejump?

also not a question for here

should ask in #infinity-phase

[unreal seal]

oke

i jsut dont understand how winwel works

[broken marsh]

that's probably a cwj bug, yeah

[unreal seal]

i am i duing smth wrong

[rich veldt]

depends on what you're concerned about

i suggest disable earth tho

[unreal seal]

for how long should i wait until go to inf

until 1E9 xp

[unreal seal]

yeh restarted and waited for ai to do that but it still sometimes did it

[inner jolt]

so with what do I get started here?
is chimp pushing a stable thing to do yet?

[rich veldt]

I do it

but I don't use anything I've published, I suggest burnORF to start with. Very good BP

[inner jolt]

where can I find it?

[rich veldt]

I guess so. I actually know very little about winWEL because I can't test it properly.

[rich veldt]

#1140396334558478347 I think

[unreal seal]

well

[inner jolt]

dam I need Borf for that

[unreal seal]

in forest the ai diables fire > nature > earth

[rich veldt]

yeah if that causes problems I suggest earth > nature or earth > fire > nature

maybe even earth > nature > fire

[unreal seal]

and ifn attack and nature armor nothing mroe from modules

[unreal seal]

yehb ut i got all 3 blokec and when i go to inf it still ha enemys around it but it kills them

[rich veldt]

winWEL isn't very fast

I wasn't able to use all the tools I like to use when designing winWEL, because I wanted it to be very accessible

[unreal seal]

oke so whats after winwel

[rich veldt]

winWELP

[unreal seal]

same ai? or do i need to change smth

[rich veldt]

same AI

[unreal seal]

are these really need in winWELP

[uneven karma]

winWELP is better wersion of winWEL

it made with use of inf mods to be better than winWEL

so if you dont have mods, use winWEL

[molten solar]

so i just got the winrp 1.12 both BP and AI but in heaven insane (the highest one to get better idle gains) i instantly die ... any ideas?

[unreal seal]

yeh but void synerhy omega synergy and inf burst re costly

[uneven karma]

bp is probably too weak for that

[uneven karma]

void and omega gives damage, inf burst is better inf attack

[somber bridge]

wow a bp titled "BurnORF" needs borf /j

[unreal seal]

actualy dino the winwelp works without thse 3

[molten solar]

dino the BP says up to chaos insane...

[uneven karma]

based on module levels, forge, and more other stats

[molten solar]

ahh i guess ill have to use a weaker one i guess

[unreal seal]

main attack of winwelp is nature?

[uneven karma]

yea

[unreal seal]

so this will help

[uneven karma]

yea

[unreal seal]

so with winwelp i creep until i get earth blocked 600E6 and then go to inf

or do i wait more

[rich veldt]

but your mileage may vary. It's stronger with higher mod tiers, but at a certain point more tiers doesn't help much - that point is equivalent to chaos insane and most nightmares.

for example, when I made winWE, I was able to use it to beat chaos easy infinity 100 billion - but I don't expect you to get the same results because I don't expect you to have the same anvil & mod tiers that I had.

at some point, you might, but not immediately.

also there's the question of 'what kills you' - it might not be a BP thing.

also also use rpcat for now. I've not updated winRP in a while, rpcat should run better

[unreal seal]

what is this winwelp doesnt get any dmg i used reboot and it stil has max hp

[uneven karma]

natures touch?

[unreal seal]

i dotn even see the hp go to the 1 it justs atys at e27

[uneven karma]

cuz tower attacks really fast

[unreal seal]

this wouldnt heal me to e27 instantly

[uneven karma]

its based on damage after multipliers

i think

[unreal seal]

oke

but then why is dark sacrifice in winwelp

if it does nothing

[uneven karma]

cuz idk

[unreal seal]

coz winwelp doent attack with darkness

[uneven karma]

well, it does

[unreal seal]

when

[uneven karma]

it have void synergy?

void synergy multiplies light trough, and light multiplies nature trough daybloom

[uneven karma]

so darkness modifier boosts nature

[unreal seal]

how?

darknes multyply light

[uneven karma]

and light multiplies nature

[unreal seal]

but light not multypli nature

[uneven karma]

read daybloom

[unreal seal]

oo

and why this

[uneven karma]

to boost nature

[unreal seal]

but wher do you boost earth ¨)

[uneven karma]

by base multiplier

in stats

[unreal seal]

wait and if i am always at max hp this is useles

[uneven karma]

idk

you not supposed to be at low hp

but idk how to fix it

i didnt used winWELP

[unreal seal]

yeh

so i can remove

STRIKE BACK + EMERGENCY CRIT

coz i will never go below 60% and i am always at 100%

[uneven karma]

idk, maybe

[unreal seal]

why isnt this used in the build

[uneven karma]

it probably only used at start

snap sucks

it only gives like 1-5 kps

[unreal seal]

but importality shield

[uneven karma]

imortality shield to not die, snap to kill

[unreal seal]

i guess

this could be op on maps with ligth enemys

[uneven karma]

not op, but good

[unreal seal]

does it has hard cap

[uneven karma]

no

but its additive

[unreal seal]

i need to make ia that clicks on imortality shield right whent he round starts

[rich veldt]

do you have a better module idea?

if what I provide is no good, then make it better.

[unreal seal]

oke i changed winwelp that you can use every MT12 software without no bounds if you have inf on the region

[mild juniper]

why AI in winWE does not include turning off era dividers?

[uneven karma]

cuz you supposed to have light stone

or do it by yourself

[mild juniper]

og

oh

ty

[finite iron]

shouldn't winWE have reifined armor?

cuz well

i would be op

[unreal seal]

winWELP dies at imposible R14

[uneven karma]

cuz its weak bp... its not for impossible

[unreal seal]

omg

a bp that has ai + bp for space

[feral yacht]

@rich veldt did something change from the original? it says to only use dark sacrifice no more than twice, but with the AI and nature's touch it just goes off 24/7

I originally thought it was for bulwark but is it just designed as a constant damage buff now?

asking to make sure im not missing something

[rich veldt]

when's the last time you used it o.o

the synergy fix happened almost a year ago, and after that dark sac became useful for boosting nature damage

[feral yacht]

uhh when I clicked the link to the build it put me pretty high up in the post

[rich veldt]

so all the 'cool' BPs use it constantly now.

[feral yacht]

ah gotcha, thanks for the clarification

I want to push infinity levels while I sleep so im trying to set it up, hopfully I can hit inf 5 by the time I wake up, and work on 90/90 tomorrow after I wake up

[rich veldt]

the ideal is to maintain equilibrium at ~49% hp, but if you have too little health (due to crates or anvil or something), then nature's touch will keep you at 100%. Some BPs I have use advanced heal to maintain the 49%, but I'm not sure which of the public ones do this

[feral yacht]

uhh yeah thats not an issue for me, I'm immediately max hp the moment it goes off lol

[rich veldt]

in any case, most of my BPs are now obsolete. If you can make burnorf work, I suggest you use that. If not, rpcat is better than winRP for the moment

if you'd prefer something more like winWE, then use the most recent version and lmk of any issues. There were a few reported but I've forgot them all :/

#1094013225915396127 message afaik this is the latest.

[feral yacht]

my issue is im missing all perfect space modules because that minigame makes my brain rot

so this was the first one I found that doesn't use any

[rich veldt]

oh, yeah, none of my public BPs use PS modules (except daigoparry sometimes) because I didn't feel like updating for it

so you're welcome to them

I'm afraid it's too late for me to troubleshoot effectively, so best wishes. If it's important, I'll get back to you in ~12 hours.

[feral yacht]

ah all good, if its outdated I wont be here when it fails anyways cause im about to sleep

what do you suggest between yours and RPcat for forest easy?

Rpcat is the reflect one, right?

[broken marsh]

yes

[tepid kelp]

@rich veldt adding bulwark to winAi will give more resources in contacs without boosting enemies too much

[tame niche]

winAI is an old bp, there's a ton more improvements that can be made. In additon, it was made with old contracts so it has different mods and requirements it needed to hit.

[tepid kelp]

actualy its good i did with it 3e76/s

• impossible chaos pushing

[tepid kelp]

.

[uneven karma]

old dosent means bad

old means can be better

[tepid kelp]

yeah

the 2.0 is the best one

but 2.3 fullfills all except 2 with bulwark

[tame niche]

it is one of the only public invincibility bps i know of
I have one of my own but mine doesn't work 100% on the max stats regions.

[tepid kelp]

max reg?

[tame niche]

my personal one uses titanium hull to get more time on invincibility but that has a limit to how much it can block
so if enemy stats are too high, you still die
WinAI doesn't use ti hull, so it lasts less (so it can still set idles but not much further) but is fully unkillable during that time

[tepid kelp]

yeah this thing permits to push the chaos imp

you will eventualy push it in time so the res/s will rise

[inner jolt]

are the current best frag-idle BPs in #1144705871486648460?

[tame niche]

as far as I'm aware, yes.

[normal swan]

Is the AI supposed to use Hurrican and Radar automatically?

[rich veldt]

I suspect someone complained that it wasn't using actives so I had it spam them to spite the person

but no I don't expect those two to do anything.

it might, it's been a while since I used those BPs

in any case, do check it's the correct AI

[normal swan]

yep, unless there s a new AI for winRP+ 1.12

[hazy bane]

also not sure woot if you want to include the thing about DO in winRP vs Rpcat

[rich veldt]

old news :/. I expect people to recommend rpcat until I bother to improve the BP

which might be never, tbh.

is DO any more consistent than it was after the fix?

[tame niche]

I never saw any actual stat changes to it. still 1.4% or whatever to die per 5 sec.

[rich veldt]

too unstable imo. I built winRP for consistency not potential.

[tame niche]

needs about an order of magnitude or more of extra stability to be considered consistent
1.142% is actual number.

[normal swan]

winRP is getting me pretty far in the initial inf pushes on nightmare with winRP+ 1.12

[hazy bane]

oh I also added monsoon aura so its 100% better by a significant amount

[rich veldt]

ah yes

about 500 times as much tolerance or something

[rich veldt]

ok [bit] less than 500. Maybe it depends on tier

[hazy bane]

maxes at 100

also not sure if the max health reduce is an actual reduction or a damage

since it either does a really good amount of damage or none at all

[rich veldt]

I'd test but I should sleep soon. Super busy etc.

[normal swan]

which BP is this for?

[hazy bane]

#1094005500091318395

[spare moat]

well to affect max health it has to be a reduction,i doubt it counts as a hit

[normal swan]

gotcha. is that BP useable to "grind" infinities from 1inf onwards for the different regions or just for one particular one

[hazy bane]

I don't think there's any region specific bps

[spare moat]

other than inf 25 and inf ?? I beleive

[rich veldt]

the winRP family of BPs will work just about anywhere, with some issues at nightmare (or impossible) difficulty, and for many people chaos insane.

this includes RpCat, btw

[normal swan]

I tried messing with the AI to add hurricane, super tower 2, and radar to the AI and I think I mucked it up 😂

now it won't do anything at all

no idea how I messed it up lol

[normal swan]

^ I figured I'd try to fix it myself instead of bothering someone else, but it looks like I have no idea what I'm doing

[rich veldt]

I guess I can take a look.

[normal swan]

I really appreciate it. If it's any good, and it's only a small syntax screw up somewhere, you're more than welcome to use as an updated AI script to go with the winRP+ 1.12 that you had posted above. I just wnated to do something that would help others who are trying to use the awesome BP you made

[rich veldt]

your jumps are all wrong

[normal swan]

I figured as much. I was just kind of blindly guessing to do it from inference

[rich veldt]

these are all bad, plus 24 will kill the script since it's only 23 lines long.

[normal swan]

that's what I get for using the perfect woer script editor

[rich veldt]

you don't need the jump for st2, and the jumps should all be ~2 lines ahead

[normal swan]

so what should ST2 look like instead?

[rich veldt]

like all the other actives.

[normal swan]

so it should just be useinstant(active.index("tower.super.2"))?

like before the gotoif's start

or I guess the jumps as you've called them

[rich veldt]

yeah I suppose.

you can leave it where it is if you change all the jumps to 2 lines ahead instead of 4

[normal swan]

hey! it worked! sweet

[hazy bane]

also there's no point to use these since they don't effect the bp as it doesn't shoot

[normal swan]

here's the file for that portion of the AI if you feel like using it for the package @rich veldt

[normal swan]

oh, so they're just there to look pretty?

[hazy bane]

enemies copy them

and gain more attackspeed

[tame niche]

so they die to (reflect, wince, whatever) faster

[normal swan]

OOOOHHHH!!! that makes a bunch of sense!!!

https://tenor.com/view/the-universe-tim-and-eric-mind-blown-mind-blown-meme-mind-explosion-mind-explosion-meme-gif-18002878

[tame niche]

you can do a lot more than just those 3 skills (RPcat is like 1/4 mods for enemies to copy) but those are the only actives that you don't care about using, as all the other similar actives have secondary uses

[normal swan]

so it wouldn't be a good idea to make sure that at least SP2 is active and working?

[hazy bane]

its not full uptime and pretty sure it only effects attacks and normal energy regen

[tame niche]

ST2 does attackspeed and energy regen. you have power conversion so the energy regen is still irrelevant.

If you had a reason to use the energy regen, sure, but not in this bp as intended.

[normal swan]

ok, so then in that case, I was trying to reinvent the wheel... whoops. well, at least I learned something today and I'll just take that out of the AI

#TodayILearned. Thanks @hazy bane @tame niche and @rich veldt for humoring a newbie

[rich veldt]

more than anything I provide my BPs as learning material, so I'm happy you learnt something from it

[normal swan]

it's neat that a game like this can teach one some real basic coding

[hazy bane]

there's https://d0sboots.github.io/perfect-tower/ which is closer to actual coding

[normal swan]

yep, that's what I was trying to use, unsuccessfully for a bit I might add til I figured out that I needed to subtract 2 from the line numbers that I was referencing in my jumps

[tame niche]

in that one make sure you read the notes on the side, and the new script sample. it has some tricks including references (so you can do exit: and then goto exit instead of line numbers)

[normal swan]

oh cool. thanks

for the modules that don't actually attack like WINCE and the others that are included in the winRP, is it good to have a larger attack range, or does attack range have no impact on how many enemies those modules affect?

[tame niche]

your attacks and associated stats don't matter. just opponent attack stats. however, since they copy mods, anything that makes your range/speed better makes them die faster.

[normal swan]

interesting, what's the mechanic that makes them die faster?

[tame niche]

infinity mod copying and wince is on them attacking

[hazy bane]

any attackspeed or range increasing on them make them die faster

[normal swan]

I'm still getting the hang of all this stuff, so I appreciate y'all's input

[hazy bane]

same reason why we don't disable elec and I don't disable air

elec makes them much faster and air gives them range

[normal swan]

i've been wondering about that, so in inf pushing, it's better to not disable air and elec?

[hazy bane]

its a lot of knowing every interaction so we can optimize it as much as possible

[hazy bane]

with reflect bps yeah

some bps use elec reflect to trigger mods too

[normal swan]

I interesting. but if I don't have reflect loaded up in the BP, then would it be good to disable air and elec?

[tame niche]

reflect, wince, barrier, energy sphere, stoneskin - if there's any of the defensive on-hit abilities, those era abilities can be useful.

[normal swan]

I feel this short convo would be awesome to have pinned somewhere as advice for newbies

[tame niche]

maybe, but not here. it's really just thinking about how WINCE and reflect and such are worded. unlocking WINCE should indicate that is how those behave.

[normal swan]

oh, I agree, I just don't know if there's a place for little tips and tricks like that for newbies to know when they're moving into this era of the game

[hazy bane]

I made a bp guide but its not for specific sections of the game

[normal swan]

is that pinned somewhere here in discord?

[hazy bane]

#926940645027905576

[normal swan]

whoa, this is super nice. let me give it a quick glance

any module from winRP that you guys think I could sub in for bulwark to get the extra contract fulfillment for more shards and resources temporarily that you guys know of

[normal swan]

that's a pretty amazing "mini-essay" thank you for posting it

[normal swan]

so I just thought of something, even though winRP+ doesn't actually attack, meaning that high attacks/sec wouldn't necessarily hit enemies more often, wouldn't the fact that more attacks per sec are happening mean that there are more opportunities for WINCE to take effect? (just want to see if I'm learning from what y'all are teaching me and others)

[tame niche]

yes- but for enemies. wince is a reflect, it triggers on enemy attacks.

[normal swan]

ohhhh... so it doesn't help me as the player if it activates and gives me more atks/sec then correct?

[tame niche]

correct

[proper marlin]

For the purpose of this collection of BPs, am I considered "early infinity" until I can charge infinity stones in a short time, have all of the permanent/toggle bonuses or what? Wondering about when to make the switch from WinWEL to WinRP+

[hazy bane]

WinWEL is for having none of the infinity mods

[hazy viper]

i think im not understanding how to use this, i have enabled the AI, im using the BP for it and im just dying to random things at inf 2

messaged hasnt pinged, i mean the build: winAI 2.23

[tame niche]

WinAI should last exactly 60 sec then either die or quit out (not sure how Woot set up the AI)
if it dies before that, you may not have the full AI imported or enabled. If it dies after, that's intentional.

[hazy viper]

yes it dies right at 1min, why is it good?

[uneven karma]

this bp is to set idle

not to push

(in normal ways)

[tame niche]

because it sets one of the highest idle resource rates possible without any regard for your module levels or anything like that.

It also is fully unkillable for that minute or so, so it does technically push very very slowly with the MT15 software.

[hazy viper]

okay, and if im looking to go for inf. pushing? i tried the winRP+ 1.12

[tame niche]

ask in #infinity-phase cause there's a lot of other questions to ask first

[spring latch]

I'm trying to set an idle using WinAI but it keeps dying just under 30 seconds in, what could be causing that?

[hazy bane]

ingame time or real time?

it always dies after 60 seconds ingame tme

[spring latch]

Ingame time

[spare moat]

fps issue i would guess

[spring latch]

More precisely I seem to be dying the instant Temporal Barrier falls off

Okay I got it to work by changing the AI so it refreshes the Temporal Barrier at 28.5s instead of 29s

So yeah probably was a FPS issue

[dusky bronze]

Void acting super inconsistant for me... litterly white enemies standing inside it. This normal?

[tame niche]

yes
it only kills on frame 1 for things inside
otherwise it's only neutral enemies that go from outside to inside that die

[dusky bronze]

ah

Is there a reason why this has like 20 empty slots

It seems kinda slow so surely stacking mroe damage would be opitmal?

[tame niche]

read the entire conversaztion around it
last i knew, that bp did not give a single care in the world what any values were except that era attack multiplier was very high.

[rich veldt]

winAI?
It's impossible to scale. It takes infinity damage and does infinity damage. There is zero you can do to make it better (except satisfy more contracts or extract more resources out of it).
If it's not working this is likely because you didn't configure it properly. You want era shield at its highest possible value, i.e. infinity, to ensure you're reflecting that damage.

[bold basin]

dont start this whole conversation smh, infinity is not a number therefore cant be compared to another infinity as there are infinate infinities.

[rich veldt]

that is essentially the problem with winAI

[zinc viper]

with winAI is it better to farm in heaven or chaos for resourses? thought i saw someone say heaven medium was recomended, but im not sure

[hazy bane]

whatever you can get to a higher inf and have good killspeed still on

[zinc viper]

ok thx

[rich veldt]

the actual logic is complicated.
Suffice it to say, heaven medium is the most efficient, but not the best. If the furthest you can go with, say, winWE or burnORF, is 100 billion infinities, then there are regions better than heaven medium (if you can't reach 100b infinities then heaven medium is best). It's better to have high infinity than high difficulty, and you're only supposed to use winAI if no other BP will work.

I hope that's a helpful answer. Heaven Medium first, if that's too easy for you, then move onto heaven hard or universe medium and so on.

[zenith viper]

can I add any module to this bp?

[rich veldt]

at your own peril, sure.

[zenith viper]

but

[rich veldt]

keep in mind the engine is as close to perfect as is possible.

[zenith viper]

its only using 34 modules

[rich veldt]

yeah? What would you add to make it work better, I wonder?

[uneven karma]

Cuz it dont need more

[uneven karma]

I dont think it will

[zenith viper]

can I add some module?

[rich veldt]

yes

you can add as many modules as you like

you can even remove some modules

but you do this at your own peril. I can't promise it would continue to work as described

[uneven karma]

Do whatever you want, we wont stop you

Main thing, dont break contracts or you will get less resourses

[buoyant comet]

hey where can i get winWE lite plus?

[somber bridge]

add the modules yourself. it tells you which ones to add already.

[buoyant comet]

which modules to add??

[tribal holly]

@buoyant comet has earned the Spark role!

[supple narwhal]

if you open this thread in full view mode, then click on the pins to see the pinned post which contains the "directory" of all Woot's builds. click on the link named WinWEL - has all the info and instructions in the post that it will jump to, including the import codes for the build.

[rich veldt]

winWEL and winWELP should be around somewhere. Hang on.

dbugz' instructions are super useful though

#1094013225915396127 message immediately below winwel. Please pay attention to the entire post next time. LMK if there's any issues.

[zenith viper]

why I lose in 1 sec?

[rich veldt]

hard to say. What kills you?

[hazy bane]

You aren't maxxing era divider before they spawn

[rich veldt]

winRP doesn't come with era creep tech because I assume the player has light stone active. I do have advice for how to use it without light stone, but the AI won't do it for you

Assumes light stone. If absent, as with the spec before: turn wave restart off, turn era floor off, turn wave streaming off, turn all the other era softwares off (aside from new bounds); then after starting a run maximise the health & damage era dividers. Then turn software back on.

[thorn pier]

hmm, i have this thread followed but it isnt showing up in my channel list, may as well talk in it to see if that works lol

[hazy bane]

Discord archives threads automatically

I think its set to a week here

[thorn pier]

well the strange thing was i just followed it yesterday

[spare moat]

it doesn't care when people follow it

[zenith viper]

what is the best town perks for this bp?

[zenith viper]

thats good?

[uneven karma]

Yes

[zenith viper]

can anyone apdate every win bp?

[supple narwhal]

i believe you're free to do whatever with them as Woot no longer actively maintains them, and Woot even encourages any changes that may optimize or further improve the builds.

[zenith viper]

Im to stupid to do any updates like this

I add some module to winAI and bp stop working

idk how

[spare moat]

which modules?

[vivid notch]

https://discord.com/channels/488444879836413975/1156693884798251128 updates winAI in the only reasonable way I know of (making it get one more contract)

[lean isle]

heyy you can send me a script WinWE ? i don't find it

[broken marsh]

it's literally in the pins

[lean isle]

yes but a must use what version ? sorry i don't speak very english and i don't undersant all information

I must use winwe experimental or winwe 2.7

[broken marsh]

I don't really know, but probably experimental.

[lean isle]

importation is fail

[broken marsh]

what does it say?

[lean isle]

i have a winwe AI but win RP fail to importation

[broken marsh]

...what exactly are you importing? because I don't think this is winWE experimental's AI at all

[lean isle]

i could put winwe but to work i saw that i had to have winrp too but i can't import winrp

[rich veldt]

winRP is a blueprint. You don't need both for one to function.

[cedar vale]

hey
I'm using the experimental ai for winAI 2.23, I tried the non experiment one too
It doesn't fully upgrade the damage devider
It seems unintentional, but maybe it is?

[modern hornet]

it is intentioanl

you want the enemies to do infinite damage

to reflect infinite damage

[cedar vale]

aha, I see

ty

[cedar vale]

confusion
if I use winRP+ AI with the winRP+1.12 bp, do I dissable a software in specific or do I keep it all?
the ai doesn't seem to dissable anything and with no software I die approximately instantly

[rich veldt]

what kills you

I don't really remember what 1.12 looks like so I can't help without more info

[cedar vale]

one sec pls, my upload speed is terrible until it's almost over

oki, so it turns out fine without any software on, but I don't think that's how it's intended to work
here's an mp4 that shows my process

I'm not even sure if I'm using the right one for increasing infinities

[rich veldt]

hm.
Didn't expect it to shoot.

ok you died to era. I don't think the AI has era creep logic.

Easy fix just max the dividers or use light stone

or find an AI that will max the dividers

[cedar vale]

no usable stones
that's why I'm trying to increase infinities

[cedar vale]

oh, it's supposed to be used when everything costs 0?

[rich veldt]

the dividers, not the elements.

but yes I do assume zero-cost, but the order of elements should ensure the important ones are disabled first

[cedar vale]

oh, oki, ty

[cedar vale]

does winAI 2.23 work better pre infinity?
"For best results, use this at very high wave/era (at least 95b in each), with wave restart on and all other software off."
is 1 inf seen as better than wave/era 95b or worse cus it ressets wave and era?

[uneven karma]

Just get era/wave 95b at inf 1

[cedar vale]

that works better?

[uneven karma]

More inf/era/wave=more resourses

Inf^1.1
Era^0.9
Wave^0.7 or something like that idk

[cedar vale]

inf res > era res > wave res?

[uneven karma]

There too much conflicting information about how good inf/era/wave numerically

[cedar vale]

oh, I see
So it would be better to go for chaos easy bc that's where I have most infinities?

[uneven karma]

How many

[cedar vale]

easy = inf 3e4
impossible = inf 1

[uneven karma]

I think impossible would be better

You can also push with winAI if you are mt15

[cedar vale]

I can't, it does too quick, even with era creeping starting without new bounds

[uneven karma]

It does too quick?

[cedar vale]

yup
before it reaches infinity

[uneven karma]

It supposed to die after 60 seconds

[uneven karma]

Just start in inf

[cedar vale]

can't, dies then bc the deviders aren't upgraded

[uneven karma]

It supposed to have non upgraded damage dividers

Just let its ai cook

[cedar vale]

this is why I need to rea creep

[uneven karma]

Idk, I didnt followed it for too long, I dont know things about its bugs/new versions

[cedar vale]

wait, I thought we were now talking about winRP+ AI

WinAI dies before 30 sec

[uneven karma]

Game or real?

[cedar vale]

game
real = ~45

[uneven karma]

What, how is your game 30 but real is 45

[cedar vale]

there's a dellay between them

[uneven karma]

What do you mean delay

Game should be 3x real unless you pause game/have A LOT of lag

[cedar vale]

one sec, lemme get OBS running and show

ingame 20 sec, real 60sec
it's supposed to die bassed on game time or real time?

[uneven karma]

Game

Also, why 0 software, i think it has to be able to handle it

[cedar vale]

because " with wave restart on and all other software off."

[uneven karma]

All other wave skipping software

Ones that skip millions era/wave

So you can stay at era/wave 95b

[cedar vale]

oh
I thought it was everything besides it

[uneven karma]

Also, real is white value

[cedar vale]

that explains it then, yea

OMG
I was reading game time as the white value and real time as the () time

that explains my confusion then

[cedar vale]

so only critical wavejump and wave instability?

[uneven karma]

Era burst

[cedar vale]

and nothing else besides it?

[uneven karma]

I think

I don't remember

Also, as I said, if you keep all of your software on, you can "push" with winAI

[cedar vale]

who knew that using the bp and AI properly it'd make it all work better?
thank you sm

[cedar vale]

hey so
"Infinity pushing up to chaos insane or nightmare (any region): winRP+ 1.12,"
Should I have some software off?
I've got all software on, deviders maxed thanks to the light stone, a 2.5x wave acceleration boost from the factory and my modules at lvl81 -> lvl 84
I successfully average about 2-5 seconds in before dying
what am I doing wrong?

and as can be seen in the video, every difficulty kills me here

[supple narwhal]

I've got all software on...
^ i think that's the issue right there. all variations of winrp (afaik) still follow the software recommendations of the original variant

Assumes light stone. If absent, as with the spec before: turn wave restart off, turn era floor off, turn wave streaming off, turn all the other era softwares off (aside from new bounds); then after starting a run maximise the health & damage era dividers. Then turn software back on.
...
(unless otherwise advised, iirc).

more importantly, wave restart kept enabled upon starting tower testing is almost always guaranteed an instant death when every region+diff immediately starts in INF. (regardless if you have light stone inf perk enabled)

[cedar vale]

yea, I was recommended just max deviders^

[rich veldt]

peculiar, you only have e42 health.

I thought latest winRP had health tanking

[cedar vale]

but the deviders are maxed by default so no era creeping needed
what does it mean by "For best results, also use nature stone" what do I make the nature stone do? nature damage?

[rich veldt]

yes

doesn't make much difference to you, you're dying for other reasons

I don't have much info to troubleshoot with

my guess is your modtiers are too low.

you can try generic armor, I think it has steeper scaling at lower tiers than granite or adv shield

hm

[cedar vale]

am I underlevel?

[rich veldt]

no, 80 should be plenty.

hm

restart, era tab open please.

oh

you don't have eternal wall.

or granite found

[cedar vale]

oh, it works
my towertesting script was restarting too fast and the winrp12.2+ script didn't have enough time to stop the scripts

[rich veldt]

ah, a classic case of 'I did stuff to your thing and now your thing doesn't work'.

[cedar vale]

no, it's more like
I did stuff that breaks your stuff

ok there we go, yea, I was restarting too quickly
I'm so sorry for confusing you

[cedar vale]

but wait, I need more modules in the blueprint?

[rich veldt]

um

I don't remember the design philosophy for that version

so maybe it's exactly as intended

[cedar vale]

I should be able to add more than 51 modules or were you thinking of switching modules out?

[rich veldt]

if that's what the import looks like, then that's what I intended it to look like at the time.

don't worry about it

[idle lion]

ik it doesnt matter but can u add a universal module so it satisfies annihilist?

[supple narwhal]

afaik based on what woot usually says about these builds, you're free to modify them at your discretion.

[idle lion]

o

[supple narwhal]

if you break it, you fix it. :)

[idle lion]

wait why is death aura in the bp

if an inf enemy copies it dont you just die

or did i add that and my brain is dying

no thats in the main bp

[spare moat]

i don't think that's supposed to be there

[idle lion]

huh

oh the ai blocks it immediately

ok nvm

[half ocean]

hey, is there a way to make Floof stone activate twice? its cooldown for me is 53 sec, so it could be cast twice per run

[inner jolt]

it already should be casted twice via Refresh

[rich veldt]

but to answer your question: not unless you can bring its cooldown below 25 seconds.

[short cedar]

can i use in era phase to set a good idle/

[rich veldt]

maybe

[short cedar]

what does the C.E stand for from ur module

[rich veldt]

have you looked at its description?

[tender kestrel]

Why does WinRP does not need to disable WINCE? Is it because WINCE kills "Attackers", and im not attacking, just reflecting?

[rich veldt]

um

honestly it's weird. I've forgotten the exact reason

but yeah that afaik is most of the reason. The tower for whatever reason never triggers wince in enemies

sorry I couldn't be more helpful

[tender kestrel]

No harm done, was just curious. I mean it makes sense, since WINCE says it only kills attackers, and we are never attacking. Was just wondering if theres more to it

Thanks for answering instantly 😄

[rich veldt]

thing is, a few things do produce projectiles and it's really odd.

stuff like Energy Sphere will trigger wince reflects.

I think regular reflect might

[tender kestrel]

Wouldnt that mean that we should die randomly somewhat regularly?

Aside from infs that instantly kill me cause theyre at my limit, I dont think ive ever died

And its not disabling wince at all, so I think I should

shouldnt I? 😄

[rich veldt]

does winRP use reflect? It uses barrier, which doesn't.

actually it might disable barrier I'd have to check.

[tender kestrel]

I can tell you in a second

It uses Infinity Reflect

[rich veldt]

I think that one's safe too

might just be energy sphere that's weird

[tender kestrel]

And I was wrong, it disables WINCE at 1e12 XP. Might be a "wasted" disable then?

[rich veldt]

probably wasted, yes, but nothing needs to be disabled so it hardly matters

[tender kestrel]

true

If you dont mind, a Question regarding your fragment farm builds (or fragment farming in general).

So the higher your INF, the higher the amount of Fragments. Though I can play with Wave Restart (instantly dies, cause its to high), so I can only let it run 1min from inf 1, which seems kinda not so great.

Theres nothing I can do but let it run a minute from Inf 1 right?

[rich veldt]

hm

two things

first of all, dfirestorm's borf BPs are better for frags, I think

second, try 1x speed. If that still doesn't work you'd have to try temporal barrier (or some other thing providing 60s immortality)

[tender kestrel]

And theres a small bug in the winWEF AI

[rich veldt]

not surprised.

the WEF bps are awful 😄

I genuinely didn't enjoy making them

[tender kestrel]

if you wanna update AI

[rich veldt]

honestly, no. I might just tell everyone to use df's instead.

I was/am working on a winRP upgrade but one of the techniques I hoped to use got patched out so not much benefit to it

[tender kestrel]

I mean but the problem stays right? As winRP and winAI most likely can push higher than what the Frag build can, this is always going to be some sort of problem?

[rich veldt]

and I recently developed a winAI upgrade but it's still in testing phase rn

[rich veldt]

yeah :/

winWEF is just bad.

borf based BPs work better because they're able to sustain for longer.

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 you can try it if you want [winRP3U]. Used to have Neutral Gift and Reflect, but I think barrier works better. I added infinity reflect but I don't think it does anything.

[tender kestrel]

Ill check different ones, but the wave restart thingy kinda bothers me... I either die instantly (no fragments 😦 ) or im on Inf 1 (not as much fragments as Id like to have

[rich veldt]

yeah, df's is intended to work with restart

winAI 3.0 is somewhere in #infinity-phase and I keep forgetting where

[tender kestrel]

Oh you have a newer Version? 😮
I just checked out this thread, thought it would be here if it exists 😄

[rich veldt]

df's isn't mine

uh

https://discord.com/channels/488444879836413975/1144705871486648460

[tender kestrel]

I meant WinAI 3

[rich veldt]

yeah uh, one sec

#infinity-phase message I think this is it

I can't promise it's better. It's still WIP

might have the old fps temp barrier issue, Idk

yeah looks like it might, rip.

[tender kestrel]

Ill just check it out, if its not working, ill go back to V2. Though I will try to get some fragmetns first, so I can maybe get a couple levels on my modules

[rich veldt]

around 9 frames to activate temporal barrier. It might collapse if you're below 20fps

[tender kestrel]

Im playing on 180 FPS (well 200) so 3x does not teleport

[tender kestrel]

Yeah, they work quite well. Even with wave restart. Thanks for linking

[tender kestrel]

I added infinity reflect but I don't think it does anything
That BP does not contain inf reflect 😮

As far as I can tell the only thing that actually kills enemies is WINCE and Snap. Though it survives waves I think winRP+ just died, so depending on difficulity it works quite well

[rich veldt]

oh, maybe I removed it before sharing.

[rich veldt]

with enough town stats, Nature Barrier will kill things too

also as with winRP+, I suggest you fine-tune universal exchange and/or neutral exchange until the reisistances are roughly equal during tower testing, as these tend to be the weak point in winRP and this fine-tuning maximises your tolerance

[tender kestrel]

For the time being winRP stops working for me on impossible and chaos nightmare, which I think is fine, you even say that in your original post, that winRP is faster but winAI can push further and should be used for those difs.

winRP got to 1mil on like everything but Impossible and nightmare universe/chaos, which seems quite alright

And winRP3U can survive nightmare where winRP+ died. So i cant complain 😄
(To be fair here, winRP+ is quite a bit faster than winRP3U for me, like three times as fast)

But its hard to say if nature barrier does something. I cant seem to find a enemy that loses life... So either nature barrier oneshots, or its just wince (and sometimes snap)

[rich veldt]

generally it's either oneshot or nothing.

as for why it's faster, I don't know. There's not much reason one would be faster than the other.

oh!

I think winRP+ uses shield tanking, so barrier hits harder.

winRP3U uses health tanking (because the original intention was to use Reflect), so barrier doesn't hit as hard.

I can fix that - or you can, just add Infinity Shield

reduces tolerance massively, apparently. Down from e135hp to e123hp

do it if you're not worried about dying, I guess. I could also try using Energy Sphere with Neutral Gift but tests showed it didn't hit hard enough to be viable.

okay energy sphere works fine for chaos easy

handles chaos insane just fine

ahahah winRP3U with my stats can survive forest impossible

so yeah you can do that if you like. energy sphere + neutral gift on winRP3U, just make sure to disable those 2 + wince asap

[tender kestrel]

With my Anvil + Module levels winRP+ dies on Nightmare Chaos I1951.

winRP3U with infinity shield, energy sphere and neutral gift dies on I1957.

Forest Impossible died on I5638, but my anvil is super shit, so im missing quite a bit of power I think. But indeed, its stronger

[rich veldt]

woop

[inner jolt]

hi woop

[rich veldt]

hi woop
pls i don't want my bp thread to get deleted

[round drift]

I'll see the best in my power to make sure these are at most warns (woot, just post another bp here to be super safe)

[rich veldt]

I kinda did recently.

yeah I just shared winRP3U

[round drift]

Then your thread has decent immunity

(within reason of course)

[rich veldt]

problem is the paradigm hasn't changed an awful lot

for example winRPU originally used Reflect with Neutral Gift, but then the devs killed that, so for a while it was just the same as the previous version but with some more modules. Only recently did I decide to try making it use energy sphere, which works fairly well, but now the barrier part doesn't work well at all.

it's a technical mess

not sure what to do before finalising winRP3U

[cedar vale]

this post is an important addition of the pin of #infinity-phase
wouldn't deletion be a bad idea simply because of how much would be lost?

[round drift]

That is specifically what i'm trying to protect against happening

It's literally in the compendium twice

So for the sake of everything, keep your wooting keyboards out of this thread.

(and redundant ok)

[glass violet]

When my hi woot module comes out and woot somehow chucks it into every build, hi woot will become canon

[round drift]

if it becomes spam, that's when this module becomes a beware.

[glass violet]

Can't ban the tower testing enemies for screaming it everytime they spawn and see him

[obsidian nest]

whenever i try to import the ai script for this bp i get this message, anyone know why?

[rich veldt]

I'm not confident that's the entire ai script.

[obsidian nest]

that was it yeah, i just downloaded the file and it worked
Ty

[haughty viper]

For the winAI bp (I believe its the latest 2.something) - is the included Fire Barrier module just a remnant of testing?

[rich veldt]

idr

[spare moat]

contract?

[haughty viper]

Refined Armor takes care of Elementalist by itself it seems, removed Fire Barrier to double check and it didn't drop any of the 6 that were active before.

[rich veldt]

6?

did I break something

[rich veldt]

latest is 3.0

[spare moat]

well then where is it

[haughty viper]

Apologies, I meant the latest 2.something since one of them said "Do Not Use This".

And for the 6/8 contracts, when imported it only has 4 "Universal" tagged modules.

[spare moat]

woot, where did you put it? if it's not in the pinned message you can't expect people to use it

just figure out where to put something and release it

[rich veldt]

#1094013225915396127 message

[rich veldt]

Ik

I'm not confident with winAI 3

still adjusting it and stuff

[rich veldt]

home #1094013225915396127 message
Had a whole preamble prepped, then my text editor crashed.

WinAI 3.0

Bunch of changes, I don't keep changelogs. Works like old winAI, should be better due to Crate of Rex and other. LMK if issues. BP/AI attached.

[inner jolt]

has the same issue as V2...

you're like Microsoft

[cedar vale]

in love with backwords compatability?

[inner jolt]

in love with piling onto the existing "code", never rethinking the previous things done

[rich veldt]

honestly Ider what the v2 issue was

if you tell me I can fix it and replace the AI

[inner jolt]

the surplus of useless modules

[rich veldt]

afaik it's just the AI I shared when I firest shared the BP, so if I've made any changes since then, they aren't reflected in the public release.

[inner jolt]

like, Water Armor, are you serious?

it does nothing

[rich veldt]

why not

Lemme take a look, I guess.

Huh.
Truth be told I don't remember why it's there. My guess is a relic from a previous version I didn't rip out.

[inner jolt]

I guess you can believe that Cap.Refl. and Energy Sphere do something, albeit nothing directly points to that

[rich veldt]

you don't get many performance gains from stripping the BP, because it's already far below capacity and isn't built for frags.

[inner jolt]

Exactly

[rich veldt]

well maybe you should've said something before I made it public

you've had literally months.

[inner jolt]

you've had more

to think, hmm why is this here?

[rich veldt]

to care? hahahahahaha
I don't care about shit. That's your job.

[inner jolt]

well fine

[rich veldt]

I don't care how streamlined this BP is, because that isn't a goal of the BP.

[inner jolt]

but it should be?

[rich veldt]

the BP does everything it was intended to do, as well as I can make it do them. The issues tend to be user-specific, i.e. Not My Problem, so it's up to you to bring them to my attention.

why should it be a goal? It doesn't 'work better' with fewer modules, or more modules, or potato modules. The only gains come from resource multiplier and that's independent of module count.

The only other way to improve performance is fps and only a minute amount of that comes from modules like Water Armor. If anything, the vast majority of fps issues are User Issues, and Not My Problem.

[inner jolt]

do you remeber why Inf Range, Radar, and Knight's are there?

To be micked

and what benefits micking the right things?

[rich veldt]

the gains are utterly marginal.

[inner jolt]

a thighter BP

Yes

but does that matter?

[rich veldt]

no.

[inner jolt]

they are gains

[rich veldt]

I'm willing to entertain removing Water Armor, I suspect it's linked to previous attempts to utilise Glacier Spikes and I simply didn't care enough to remove it. Regarding Energy Sphere: probably another relic. Stronger than Reflect under certain conditions (as it inherits town stats like Daybloom), although the BP isn't designed for it. Regardless, it doesn't do 'less' than Reflect under intented conditions, although it might be redundant. Same for Cap.

Only one thing for it: field tests.

But this is why I didn't publish, neo. I wanted feedback. Nobody gave me feedback so I assumed it was fine.

[inner jolt]

energy sphere is new in 3.0

just like CReflect

I will test the stacking of reflects to assure if this does anything

[rich veldt]

relics of the testing phase that my BPs go through, not of previous versions.

I just noticed something very interesting.

[inner jolt]

that makes more sense

[inner jolt]

Fire Barrier too, if you're finally coming to senses

[rich veldt]

fire barrier is an intended mimic.

[inner jolt]

for fire era power?

[rich veldt]

no

it might not work as intended any more, but in earlier versions of winCE (and therefore winAI), there was utility in stacking reflects, as these broke through enemy blocks more quickly.

they also trigger reflects when mimicked, so for example attacking then triggering barrier then triggering wince

[inner jolt]

everybody thinks you're a god, and reasoning that some module does not belong is considered heresy among players

[rich veldt]

this BP also uses power conversion, so barriers help regenerate energy. Whether or not this is meaningfully improved with Fire Barrier, I haven't checked.

(since the BP gets hit an awful lot regardless, it likely doesn't matter)

[inner jolt]

considering I use BHarmonizer in my fork of the BP, I would like to know faster ways of regen with PowConv.

[rich veldt]

see above. More tower gets hit, more it regenerates. Barriers help, Idk if it reads every hit or every enemy that hits, so idk if an enemy with 2 barriers = 2 recovers, or one recover.

[inner jolt]

yes

[rich veldt]

9061 as-is
9016 removing ES and CR
8833 removing FB and WA.

It's insignificant but negative. Not enough tests to know if it's consistent.

[inner jolt]

a conundrum indeed, I'm willing to spare all the "flaws"

next: what about removing Imm Shield, since you can just time an extra temporal barrier usage with how much refreshes you;re getting

that's one less module to disable

[rich veldt]

fixing my FPs slightly rose it to 9129 (9255, 9346) without FB, WA, ES, CR.
putting WA back rose it to 9459 (9408). I have no goddamn clue why.

[rich veldt]

lemme check.

short answer is 'I'd have to use TB a second after I used TB'

I mean, yes, I could, but that sounds awfully clutch

also 9331, so no significant difference between adding/removing Water Armor

[inner jolt]

that's to be expected

for fire barrier to theoretically be triggeed on enemies, the tower must deal fire reflect damage, which is not the case with neutral reflect, universal Esphere, and "pure" captain's reflect

[rich veldt]

9440, 9274, 9508 with Fire Barrier (but not Water Armor), also insignificant.

[rich veldt]

what

you don't need to do fire damage to trigger fire barrier. you only need to have a shield [(and get hit)].

[inner jolt]

you said it's for mimicks but ok

[rich veldt]

yeah? If an enemy mimics Fire Barrier, then it will bounce any attack it receives back at the tower.

[inner jolt]

are you running with wave comp.?

[rich veldt]

the logic behind reflects is kinda spooky and I truly don't know exactly how it works. I do know that (some) reflects will trigger on reflects, such as W.I.N.C.E responding to Fire Barrier, but I don't know the exact process.

also, no. I keep forgetting.

Too late to turn it [off]

it'd ruin all my data

but I should fix the AI to auto-disable it

[inner jolt]

the correct state IS off

so you're good

[rich veldt]

see above.

[inner jolt]

ah

edited

alr

[rich veldt]

9626 is unusually high so I assume cap's reflect somehow does something useful

[inner jolt]

what exactly is that number, total number of hits taken in a minute?

[rich veldt]

9617 adding ES, so I'm not sure if it's any better or worse than cap.

it might be redundant due to Reflect

[inner jolt]

yea

[rich veldt]

9518 removing cap.

which is still unusually high, but not nearly as significant

cap definitely does something. ES might do something FB might do something, WA doesn't

and now for the annoying bit. I'll see if I can make it stable without IS

yes but actually no

easy fix, just need to change the time

[inner jolt]

what are your opinions on not disabling certain era powers

for example Air

more archers

[rich veldt]

would probably help, I expect the gains are minimal.

but probably more substantial than fire barrier

so worth a shot.

ok the TB fix is successful.

which reminds me, can you throttle your client down to 10fps then tell me if it breaks?

Idk if the TB hotfix is in this version

I assume it isn't. I'll throw the hotfix in rq.

this'll be fine

maybe another one to be safe

perfection.

people wonder why I have stupid redundancies like this.

10fps is why.

[inner jolt]

I remove all the redudancies

[rich veldt]

you're lucky enough to not be running at 10fps.

I get a lot of complaints that the BP dies immediately

[inner jolt]

in fact

[rich veldt]

removed air disable.

[inner jolt]

I parrallelize the scripts, instead of an init, they all launch on new round

[rich veldt]

I could do that, but that requires knowing how to do that.

............

I died at 58s.

that's peculiar.

that's illegal, even.

[inner jolt]

temporal timing issue?

[rich veldt]

yes.

31.1 is too close to cooling cell.

wasn't intended to sync with cell

easy fix I think.

[inner jolt]

what is your description of KBoP's purpose in the BP

[rich veldt]

bluecat thinks it might improve kill count.

I've not tested it

[inner jolt]

I think the inverse

it starts "off", which decreases range

given that enemies mimick 12 modules

[rich veldt]

depends how frequently it toggles.

[inner jolt]

some of which are abilities

the chance to turn it on is low

[rich veldt]

I can test it later but first I need to find a way to squeeze the health divider into my script

in a way that is sensible

[inner jolt]

mine does it in one fell swoop

no loops used

[rich veldt]

I had it in sync, but there's some edge cases I'm worried about

so I'm integrating it into the module secure loop, which I'm refactoring

[inner jolt]

ik that this is a self-explanatory question, but why is Wince in the BP, granted that every enemy dies from reflect already

[rich veldt]

same reason fire barrier is.

[inner jolt]

but it doesn't even hit

[rich veldt]

also I think wince might bypass immortality but I've not checked recently and I forget things quickly

I can test if you like

[inner jolt]

afaik immortality is real, even inf enemies might not kill you

[rich veldt]

this'll do.

oh, whoops. that should be a local.

[inner jolt]

this module is in my version of the bp, wonder why?

[rich veldt]

finally got the logic to work. Seems to hate ints :/

I might just be dumb tho. Still, I got it to work

10320-ish this time. Really high for some reason, not sure what changed.
pulling wince out.
10650-ish. Peculiar.

[inner jolt]

told ya it didnt pull its weight

[rich veldt]

best case, wince is not better than not-wince.

[inner jolt]

yes

what's your snap cooldown

[rich veldt]

going to check Metal Plating, I assume it has similar performance to Fire Barrier, but who knows

[inner jolt]

in my eyes it's a direct boost

[rich veldt]

snap's 17.

[inner jolt]

if elec enemies damage, you not only reflect to the elc, but only some other enemy

[rich veldt]

10730-ish.

metal plating has no substantial effect on kps

[inner jolt]

"to a nearby enemy"

[rich veldt]

I've put it back, just to be sure

[inner jolt]

few elec enemies i guess

[rich veldt]

I'm not doing enough tests for a proper average.

10550-ish with, 10730-ish without.

the 10550 is quite consistent

also these numbers are higher due to dynamic rendering

they shouldn't be directly compared to my earlier results

ok 10530 without

so best case doesn't appear to be substantially better to use it than not use it

since I don't use stuff like universal shield I might not need all the barriers, so I'm testing again with them all removed except Reflect and Captain's Reflect

10570

again not worse.

but this might be fps stuff, maybe at lower fps you notice, idk

dropping Death Aura, Captain's Reflect, and Something

I expect significant drop from this

[inner jolt]

should be

[rich veldt]

putting Something back

seems like cap and DA might be redundant.

[inner jolt]

hold on, you dont even use Google

[rich veldt]

which is a little odd, I'd expect DA to have done something.

[inner jolt]

it has aura increase

which goes unused

[rich veldt]

only aura I benefit from is death.

Might get better results from increasing void's radius

[inner jolt]

void should be not too big, and not too small

not too big because NR only works on enemies outside

and not too small, because enemies whould attack sooner than enter void

[rich veldt]

using google was the dumbest thing I've done so far.

best to keep it on actives

dropped my kill count by around 1,000

[inner jolt]

you mean spells?

[rich veldt]

sure.

[inner jolt]

the deafult mode

[rich veldt]

its main utility is sniping neutral enemies similar to how Something does.

[inner jolt]

that buff void range

but shouldn't that hurt kps?

[rich veldt]

nah.

[inner jolt]

This

[rich veldt]

nr does but neutral enemies are already neutral and are about 10% of enemies.

spawnkilling neutral increases spawn rate by about 10%

but

I'll swap it for HMG and see if I get better kps

also worth seeing if max range death aura compensates for low range void

[inner jolt]

HMG is not as prominent of a buff as google

[rich veldt]

HMG 10500-ish, not much worse than google.

also all this messing around might've screwed my disable logic.

which is fine since I dropped ES I think

thing is, I don't know how much of this is frame sensitive

it might be these things help slower players, Idk