Woot's BP Compendium

[hard swift]

One of the mods to add would be marble foundation

Which gives HP

And bulwark

Which boosts hp

[rich veldt]

ew

bulwark is kinda of ew, marble is big ew

[hard swift]

U wanna take uni attack and execution?

[rich veldt]

literally nothing would be a better option than giving the enemy a health or armour [or resist] mimic

[hard swift]

The ai already disables bulwark

Albeit very badly

[rich veldt]

ok I guess. Bulwark's not useful for dark sac tho

[hard swift]

Since it is basically designed for winWE-U only

[rich veldt]

and useless with NT

[hard swift]

Since it is the only one that brings immortality shield

Also the module disablet casts neut response + void to flush out enemies

But none of the bps have both neut response & void

[rich veldt]

deprecated ofc

[hard swift]

Very

[rich veldt]

I could remove it from the AI but that sounds like extra work

I'll think on it. Still need to know how far this run can go

guessing from the numbers I'd guess 1b+ is possible

if that's the case, it's probably ideal to run in chins

[hard swift]

With your stats

[rich veldt]

well, yes

[hard swift]

Not everyone has big number nature dmg factor

[rich veldt]

if you can do better than 10m chins then you should idle chins

[hard swift]

Random question

Is it worth using fracture in winwef-o

[rich veldt]

um

[hard swift]

If you are doing hitless

[rich veldt]

check the uptime/downtime

[hard swift]

It has 100% uptime

[rich veldt]

then yes probably.

[hard swift]

And x500dmg is very good

[rich veldt]

oh, is that all

I mean yes it is very good but it's also kind of not

[hard swift]

At module tier 50

[rich veldt]

but ty I'll consider using it on other BPs as well

[hard swift]

Specifically for hitless

[rich veldt]

better than subsistence and I use that

[hard swift]

And crit

Substitence basically requires energy regen tho

Which winwef-o lacked

Is super tower 3 worth using for the bps?

To use in the downtime between super towers 1 & 2

[modern hornet]

st1 and 2 give atk speed, doesnt st3 give damage?

[rich veldt]

I think I use st3 rn

actually lemme see

ah, no

st3's not good for damage since it's not 100% uptime

[hard swift]

Does the bp use wave restart

How long are the idle runs?

If 60 secs than uptime doesn’t matter

[rich veldt]

good point.
They should be a minute long

[hard swift]

Since they last for 80 secs

[rich veldt]

okay, it can use st3

[hard swift]

For focuses i think you use 2 at start and 2 after 15 secs

[rich veldt]

I'm going to try to get to 1b on chins with this bp, then see how far I can make it in nm

then I'll do some other things

I needed to...
add dark sac, st3, fracture, uh

what else did I plan to do

[hard swift]

Make ai use focuses

Make disable ai disable stuff other than immortality shield

[rich veldt]

noted

lmk if you can think of anything else

keep in mind this is all for winWE-O rn.

I doubt the others have nearly as much potential (but everybody wants red most so it's fine)

[hard swift]

They do

To an extent

With U & S its mainly about maximizing kps

[rich veldt]

thing is, more reds makes the others better, but the others don't make red better

[hard swift]

Since you are jamming them full with filler

[hard swift]

Ultimate makes them better

Also all 3 others use inf foundation

And marble

And bulwark

[modern hornet]

woudlnt blue also have good potential because we can use winAI immortality stuff?

[hard swift]

Mayhaps

[modern hornet]

inf foundation doesnt get copied so it doesnt have much of an effect

[rich veldt]

too difficult to maintain performance without it, although I need to take a look at them again

[hard swift]

But doesn’t do much

[rich veldt]

getting high dps without stacking reds is very hard. It's all cost-gain shit

like st3, is probably a good choice

[hard swift]

If your only source of hp is marble + bulwark

[rich veldt]

synergy is also a good choice

[hard swift]

Then how you gonna live

[hard swift]

Duh

[rich veldt]

steini would be, but speed decrease, so maybe strikeback or something

etc.

I have to look at them to see the best way to stack damage

if I can get ~e150 I'd be happy.

[hard swift]

They all use strikeback

And reboot

Which is really bad since the idea is to not get hit l

And nature’s touch insta regens you to full thru lifesteal

[rich veldt]

I think those three can get hit

[hard swift]

By what

[rich veldt]

but the nature's touch thing is a module/trading post problem

[hard swift]

Marbke alone is squisht

[rich veldt]

no it isn't

your stats suck

[hard swift]

It’s a fact of life

[rich veldt]

no it isn't

[hard swift]

Yours are great

[rich veldt]

set touch to tier 1 and put granite+wall on a bp.

[hard swift]

Then you’re doing no dmg

Also they don’t use granite

All just use marble

[rich veldt]

sure, but it's generally applicable as long as your hp is much larger than your base NT damage.

Idk what your base nt is but your hp clearly is not high enough

[hard swift]

Wait is nature touch lifesteal base dmg?

[rich veldt]

you need more crates and I need to consider adding eternal wall

[hard swift]

Or final dmg

[rich veldt]

yep

base

[hard swift]

Ehat about lifesteal

Or lifeleech

[rich veldt]

no idea

they're shit

[hard swift]

IT SAYS TOTAL

I HAVE BEEN LIED TO

[rich veldt]

well

I am fairly certain it's not total

does the latest winWE have dark sac on it

yes, it does. it works for me, so it's definitely not final because it does not heal e170 hp

[hard swift]

so is bulwark worth using then

assuming natures touch doesn't lifesteal much

[rich veldt]

if you can pivot around 50% hp then yes

but it's a user issue, as you've made clear

[hard swift]

and considering the fact that it requires a disable

[rich veldt]

so it might be worth not doing it

[hard swift]

the fact that it grants a free tag is next to meaningless on winWEF-O

since it has more than enough room to satisfy elementalist

using actually useful stuff

phoenix bounce, relay, etc

anyways I went ahead and made a modified version of winweF-O

probably not that great compared to yours

but maybe use it for inspiration or smthng?

[rich veldt]

I'm sure it'll do you fine until I publish this one

[hard swift]

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

[rich veldt]

and yeah it might help me with this

but I need to wait a while for this run to end so don't hold your breath

actually wait

[hard swift]

make sure to turn auto restart off lol

[rich veldt]

if this could go 'all the way', then I should stop now

[hard swift]

hitless?

i added ice shards as water filler

[rich veldt]

oh hm

O doesn't have hp

dark sac would work but bulwark won't

[hard swift]

yes

[hard swift]

that's what I said

[rich veldt]

i have a migraine

thinking is hard

be patient with me

[hard swift]

i have an exam tmr

i feel ya

we're both in the same boat I guess

i also made experimental versions of winwef-D, -S & -U as well

tho I admittedly spent less time on them

[rich veldt]

I'll make it not use ST3

since that can be used to push over tolerance

well

yeah, for now anyway

once I'm ready I can include it

[rich veldt]

neat. ty

[hard swift]

wait

i noticed something for u

since the AI doesn't use immortality shield (& probably shouldn't since 5 secs invulnerability is basiclally worthless) replacing it with tremors frees up a disable

to use on smthng like serious missile

or deep slumber

which if they proc are literally run ending

since the bp is supposed to have high enough hp to actually be able to get hit and proc overcharge/strike back

[spare moat]

immortality shield isnt even meant to be disabled i feel

[hard swift]

it is

and not used

at all

yes you can set up immortality engine with it refresh & temporak

[modern hornet]

wouldnt it lower kps if mimicked

[hard swift]

yes

as would temporal

[spare moat]

i asked for it to be added to boost the percent of ultimate modules, not so it can be disabled

[spare moat]

only if the enemy lives for more than .5 seconds

[hard swift]

tremors works to that regard

[modern hornet]

oh okay

[hard swift]

without potentially giving enemies invulnerability

i am currently working on a better version of the ai scripts

namely the caster, era, and module disabler ones

I fixed the main one to stop getting additional copies on restart

so for era

i feel like the order should be light -> dark -> elec -> water -> earth -> universal -> neutral -> air -> fire -> nature

rather than light -> darkness -> elec -> nature -> uni -> fire -> neutral -> air -> water -> earth

1. nature enemies' regen shouldn't matter since you should be oneshotting them very quickly

[rich veldt]

weird if it doesn't. I thought they all used temp/im

[hard swift]

none of them do

NONE

[rich veldt]

spook

[hard swift]

the ai literally just uses hurricaine & super tower 1/2 k

that's it IIRC

[hard swift]

most of them don't use energy regen even

anyways for era disables imo fire enemies aren't that threating if you have no shield

only maybe for O since it has no hp

but the rest use inf foundation + marble

& bulwark

[rich veldt]

fixed in next ver

keep track of everything, i gotta go + headache makes it hard to remember things

[hard swift]

do they use inf foundation?

or is that gone too

[rich veldt]

idr

[hard swift]

ok

[spare moat]

are you making all of thm harder for me to use

also are you actually tessting these?

[hard swift]

no

granted my stats atm are shit

so it's not like I can test them on chaos impossible or smthng

[spare moat]

im not expecting it to work on chaos impossible

[hard swift]

also my computer is so bad I cannot physically go hitless on forest easy without turning off wave horizon

on 1x spd

oneshotting everything

[spare moat]

i doubt its worse than mine

[hard swift]

try me

acer chromebook cb3-132-c38t

got it approx 3 yrs ago

video of me using allblue to demonstrate just how slowly my pc runs stuff

[spare moat]

ok well web is different

[hard swift]

notice how the fps goes to 0 when I turn on effects

[hard swift]

you mean more laggy?

[spare moat]

web cant hit the hundreds you need unless yolur hertz is hundreds

[spare moat]

yeah, web is very laggy

[hard swift]

so it's not a pc thing?

[spare moat]

i mean, a good pc could run web version at its max speed, like my phone

[hard swift]

using d0s' museum combiner lowers my game to about 0.2 fps

that is 1 frame per 3-5 secs

[hard swift]

your phone is good?

i envy you

[rich veldt]

so, bad news:
I had to abort my run. I had very good reason, and I'll start it again pretty soon.
good news, incidentally, is that I can keep going, so I will

[glass violet]

was the very good reason "package updates"?

[rich veldt]

no

the very good reason was needing to be online on two different machines simultaneously, which meant I couldn't be playing games on one of them.

anyway, update:
done with insane. I am gaining 30 extra fragments per second from the idle.

That is a goddamned waste of time

I'll keep trying everywhere else but I don't expect better.

I think I sacrificed too much for this bp

[hard swift]

I made updates to the ai @rich veldt

[rich veldt]

cool. Unfortunately I got nearly no gain from insane compared to easy

[hard swift]

To make them cast all the random focus modules & such that I want it to cast

[hard swift]

F

[rich veldt]

I think the problem is difficulty grows much faster than frags

[hard swift]

I also made the disabler better

Basically copying the au from allblue

Using gotoif instead of wait until

[rich veldt]

so unless you can get 'about as far', the increased difficulty is not worth

[hard swift]

Also made the main ai cast google influence once to set it to passives

I suggested changing the dusable order FYI

#1094013225915396127 message

Since enemies living longer is more importnat than nature enemies regening health or fire enemies ignoring shield

Finally I made the module disabler SIGNIFICANTLY more robust by having it disable modules for each winWEF at every step

here is updated ai package

i did not touch the winemast or tick ais

[violet trail]

I just got inf90/90 and I tried to use WinWE and WinWELP but die immediately, the inf25 got to 80 because I fell asleep and probably could've gone farther

what am I missing?

[tough basin]

winWE makes alot of assumoptions that are not true if you just did 90/90 inf 1

you need stones for it to work even a bit

idk anything about WinWELP tho

[violet trail]

aww man

wanted to use it to charge stones

[rich veldt]

winWEL and winWELP are designed for early inf but they do not have era creep logic.

they'll try to disable the era shield, but you'll still die if your acceleration is too high and your xp gain is too low.

(unless I didn't implement that in which case lmao get rekt)
anyway, era creep. That's how you deal with infinity without the light stone

[glass violet]

win WELP, YOURE FUCKED

[hardy spade]

WinRP worked great after getting 90/90inf

I had all the modules and such for it

[rich veldt]

yay

[violet trail]

Yeah that's what I ended up on
Others might have worked too but I don't have light stone on yet and didn't realize that was the issue until somebody else told me how to run it

[hard swift]

Q: does winAI assume 3x spd

Or is it designed for 1x spd

[tough basin]

it works with 3x for me

[hardy spade]

any of the stones they say "toggle" stay on until you turn them off. So the light stone doesnt need to be an instant charge when you're progressing the stones

You'll want the light stone to recharge faster later on but farming it really high so it recharges in mere seconds is kinda a waste early on

universal is also a good one to get unlocked and toggled on and just left on for a good bit

[rich veldt]

doesn't matter, technically invincible for 60 seconds

[violet trail]

Yeah I have them all maxed, just farming infinities now

[hard swift]

But does the ai break if you run it on 3x game speed

[rich veldt]

no

[hard swift]

Ok

Can winAI be used for pushing

[rich veldt]

yes

[hard swift]

Is it better than the other infinite tolerance pushing bp

I need something to help me push in impossible

That I can leave my computer on with

Without dying

[tough basin]

you just hit mt15, right? i dont think that will be possible for you yet

[hard swift]

Yup

I have every inf module

And have a fragment ifle of around 300-500/sec for most

Except for utility

Which is worse

[tough basin]

ya i highily doubt anything will let you push impossibles then

[hard swift]

Since I have like 2 utility modules in my pushing bp

[tough basin]

expect for SB bp's which involve death and are slow

[hard swift]

Or even just to get inf 1 there

[hard swift]

What does sb stand for

[tough basin]

oh, to get inf 1 there is def feasible

#1094003871434670191 should work for that

[hard swift]

Ok

Time to re-import allblue and jerry rig the hell out of it again

[rich veldt]

the only other one I know of is winUSB and yes winAI is better

[hard swift]

Yay

How does winAI work?

I’d presume a combination of various instakill modules + temporal barrier cheese

[uneven karma]

it uses modules that makes you invisible to wurvive for 60 seconds

and caidryn tech to kill

[rich veldt]

no

as dino says, it uses era shield, reflect, and technical invincibility (which I can only manage for ~60 seconds without raks)

[hard swift]

oh

cool

[severe egret]

wef ai is broken also i am not getting any fragments

[rich veldt]

both those statements seem quite odd

do you know what part of winWEF is broken

[severe egret]

like it keeps on going to home every 60 sec

[tough basin]

thats what its meant to do

[rich veldt]

okay so it sounds like winWEF is working as intended. Next question: do you have an idle factor for fragments now

[severe egret]

yeah but only a little

[tribal holly]

@severe egret has earned the Wildfire role!

[severe egret]

but that was from the other things like welWE

maybe its era creep software

i got 204 now

oh

i dont have light perks

[rich veldt]

that would be a problem I think

winWEF is basically just winWE, but stripped down a little and then padded with a bunch of other modules to increase fragments, then scripted to kill itself after 60 seconds because surviving longer isn't always ideal for making an idle

so it has many of the same behaviours including the assumption of the light perk

it's also quite old. I spent some time trying to make a new one but it turns out that it's not worth it

[hard swift]

I tried to make them better on my end

IDK how much better tbh

[native hatch]

Woot none of your BPs survie more than 20 second for me on cheesy 7 billion. IDK why but i thought u would want to know.

Ok i oversimplified. Some surive but dont kill anything.

[rich veldt]

winAI isn't supposed to survive more than 20 seconds.

if the others don't, that is, to be blunt, a user issue.

winRP absolutely will kill things so the problem is you dying before it can

winWE relies entirely on your stats being good enough to make it work, so if that's not killing anything, that's also something I can't fix

[native hatch]

No no i didnt try winrp master sent me a list of frag farming bps from here. I tried them all and none survived or didnt kill anything.

[rich veldt]

oh

they're not supposed to survive more than 20 seconds.

if they're not killing anything that is also a user issue, since they're stripped down versions of winWE

try adding void synergy to them if it isn't already there, and daybloom if it isn't

[olive barn]

what's a good bp for someone who just got to mt15? don't have stones charged just yet and my modules are at 40-50s

wanna push infinities to load my stones

winRP+ 1.11, winWE 2.7. doesn't seem to work for me atm

[tough basin]

winRP+ 1.11 is rlly your only option I think, and I think it should work as long as you take the proper extra steps, like disabling era shield fully before going into inf1+

i dont think there is any other woot bp before that one for mt15

[olive barn]

which AI does that one use?

[tough basin]

the AI thats attached in the same message

[rich veldt]

don't use winWE 2.7, it's deprecated as of void synergy finally working as intended. winWE experimental is much more powerful.

[rich veldt]

winWEL was designed for early infinity, including mt15. It should work but Idk if it'd work well. It's a small version of winWE though so it should be fine. use winWELP if you have all the modules for it.

but practically speaking if you can make winRP work that'll be your best option until you can get winWE working properly.

[tough basin]

woot you should prob fix reccomending WE2.7 in the pinned msg then

[spare moat]

no new winWEF?

[rich veldt]

took a lot of work to get a negligible improvement so I stopped trying. the existing ones are maybe good enough

[barren fable]

So far i love using WinAI, but theres one thing that was noticeable on my laptop:

Temporal Barrier isn't cast instantly on a round start, which leaves a time window for enemies to instakill you.
I had to apply a bandaid program that casts Temporal Barrier instantly on a New Round

[rich veldt]

strictly a user issue afaik

no disrespect, I mean that I can't make time faster. It uses temp barrier about as early as it physically can (after initialising scripts)

[blissful ivy]

oh so that's why WinAI seems to die unless i pause at the beginning

[rich veldt]

that sounds right

I can make it activate sooner but as you say it would be a 'bandaid' rather than meaningful

[barren fable]

yea, if you make a script to cast temporal barrier on a new round, and pair it with auto-reset, you can easily afk farm the impossible infinities

[barren fable]

okay, how many kill per round WinAI pulls at best?

[rich veldt]

~550

wait, per round? Idk.
around 550 per second

[wide gate]

Why am I still dying immediately on Chaos Impossible even with Woot's Astounding Idle 2 AI/BP running?

[wide gate]

apparently I just had to turn a bunch of Wavetech options off

[rich veldt]

it is intended to die after 20 seconds.
However, it does not immediately start using modules, it has a 'bootup' time of a few frames (Idk how many), which at a low fps could translate to a significant fraction of a second, if not longer, which can kill the tower.

[wide gate]

I thought it was meant you to get you the full 60 secs for the resource idleing

[rich veldt]

which takes 20 real seconds at 3x speed.

[supple narwhal]

curiously, weren't the previous iterations of WinAI meant to be run on x1 for survivability?

or were those the WinWEF ones?

[rich veldt]

winWEF. winAI is technically invincible from the moment it starts using modules.

at least one of the winWEFs isn't invincible, possibly all of them I'd have to check (I think D is invincible)

[supple narwhal]

i see.

[olive barn]

Is it normal for WinAI 2.23 to not use snap of destiny?

[rich veldt]

no, but it hardly matters if it's otherwise working properly.

my guess is your timing and/or energy balance are slightly off. I can't make something that magically works for everyone because there's so much variance

[olive barn]

Yeah sure np

[rich veldt]

there's a few workarounds for this sort of thing, but I'm not in a position to implement them right now

you can just cast it yourself if you like, or change the timing so it activates a little later (or earlier, or w/e)

[olive barn]

Nah is working fine atm even if it's a little bit slower

Soo since it's pretty much only using wince to kill do I just go for defensive anvil perks and that stuff?

I'm trying to charge my first stone atm xD

[rich veldt]

shouldn't be 'only' using wince to kill. If it's working properly it shouldn't be using wince at all.

if you're using the light stone or are otherwise maximising the era damage divider, then yes you want to maximise defensive stats, but at that point you're better off using winRP or RPcat, as they have higher tolerances than winAI, which was designed on the assumption that it will immediately explode after 60 game seconds.

[olive barn]

I've been trying RP and this is getting better results atm for me

[rich veldt]

I'd need more context to know why that might be the case

if winAI is surviving for more than 60 seconds then you've configured it wrong

and if it's not surviving for more than 60 seconds, then the only reason it would work better than RP was if RP also could not survive.

in other words, your question about defensive anvil perks shows a total misunderstanding of how winAI works. Stats don't make it better.

having more resistance, armour, health, or damage, does not make winAI better.

winAI does infinity damage, and takes infinity damage. You cannot stop this, and it will die, unless you're using it wrong.

and if you're using it wrong, it's just a worse version of winRP

[olive barn]

I believe I was using it wrong

[rich veldt]

there's two circumstances to consider:
The first is the era divider. It shouldn't be maximised (or even touched) because winAI relies on a trick with how reflect handles infinity incoming damage.
Second is tolerance: if winAI can survive for more than 60 seconds, then A: you've maxed out the era divider so winAI isn't working properly, and B: winRP will also survive for more than 60 seconds, since it has higher tolerance than winAI not accounting for temporal barrier or immortality shield.

[olive barn]

when I enter with winAI I instantly die

if I don't max dividers before going inf

[rich veldt]

I assume by 'instantly' you mean sometime less than 60 game seconds after you start

[olive barn]

the very first enemy

[rich veldt]

try pausing immediately after starting a new run
[since it's time sensitive, you may have to restart the AI as well]

[olive barn]

will do

winAI with winWE AI works better for me than winRP+winWE

[rich veldt]

what.

winRP has its own bespoke AI

[olive barn]

isn't it winRP+ 1.11, winWE experimental.

[rich veldt]

they're different BPs with different AIs and different behaviours, different tolerances, different requirements, different configurations, and different outcomes.

winWE's ai makes no sense in context of winRP and vice versa

[olive barn]

but with winRP+ 1.11 + winWE experimental I was walled at inf600 or so and with winAI I'm at 5k+ atm (is pretty much just wince doing the hard stuff)

[rich veldt]

winAI also has its own bespoke AI

[rich veldt]

winRP+ 1.11 + winWE experimental
this makes no sense. Those are different blueprints, you can't use both simultaneously.
If you mean that you tried each one, with its own AI, and they both walled at inf 600, then that could make sense if you picked a very high region/difficulty

[rich veldt]

wince doing the hard stuff
But this is precisely how winRP works.

[olive barn]

okey so I'm just dumb

which one is the ai for RP?

[rich veldt]

immediately above it.

(granted this is for winRP 1.12, but I assume 1.11 has a similar layout. use 1.12 it should be better)

ah, okay, I didn't attach an AI for 1.11 because it uses the previous version's AI

#1094013225915396127 message winRP 1.1's AI is used with winRP 1.11

[olive barn]

Yeah I was using WinWE IA for WinRP

I missunderstood it

[rich veldt]

that's alright, you're not the first to do weird stuff like this

I can probably clean things up better to make it less likely to happen again

[olive barn]

with RP i still need to use a low lvl universal exchange ?

[rich veldt]

it's optional but helps you go further

the actual instruction is to use 'whatever gives you the best tolerance'

if there's only neutral enemies, use neutral exhange

if there's only universal and no neutral, use a max level uni exchange

if there's both, then probably leave it in [at low level]

[olive barn]

there's both so I'll leave it at low level

I'm gonna test RP now with the correct AI

is dying at like inf 10-20

region 14 medium

I'll try 1.11 to check if there's any difference

[rich veldt]

what kills you? AFAIK those AI don't have era disable tech so you may have to do that yourself. Also, the element disable order might be funky, so check on that.

[olive barn]

1.11 is working fine so far

[rich veldt]

neat. No idea why it's so different.

[olive barn]

same lol

the disable is working properly

maybe I was just dying to wince

because is the 3rd one being disabled iirc

so I might just disable it manually first and try again

[rich veldt]

a wince death shows up as something like 0.1 universal damage

[olive barn]

then it wasn't

I was dying to random elements

[rich veldt]

that's just regular dying

[olive barn]

yup

after this run I'll try to figure out why

Since I'm just pushing with wince I'll remove the dmg perks on town lol

[olive barn]

I can't do impossible w13 but that's prolly just raw stats

[rich veldt]

wow that really does not look like an image

winRP & winWE are not designed for impossible.

[olive barn]

it really doesn't

I managed to make 1.12+ work somehow

didn't change anything (?)

I also realized why AI was dying instantly, my mistake. Forgot that when I imported it I didn't have metal plating (still need to farm it) and when I tried to use it yup, ded

[rich veldt]

huh

metal plating shouldn't have such a profound impact

[olive barn]

then dunno

[tribal holly]

@olive barn has earned the Ember role!

[olive barn]

testing AI 2.23 now and is working properly, still without metal plating

[blissful ivy]

is WinWEX supposed to survive chaos nightmare?

it keeps dying at the beginning

[uneven karma]

What is winWEX

Also I dont think any winWE bp supposed to be able to go in so hard places

[rich veldt]

no

I've said in several places that most of my BPs cannot even do chaos insane, let alone chaos nightmare

[severe egret]

what is winwex?

[rich veldt]

hell if I know

I assume it's winWEF

[blissful ivy]

it's winWE exp

[tribal holly]

@blissful ivy has earned the Wildfire role!

[blissful ivy]

sry i replied late tho

[severe egret]

OH EXPERIMENTAL

[rich veldt]

smh

experimental is technically its version number

[rich veldt]

(fixed flow control bug in previous version)
Experimental AI fix for winAI 2.23
context #1094013225915396127 message

Tested at 30fps 3x speed and seems stable. Cleaned up infinity disables, added a health divider loop (and made it pretty), and added a temp barrier hotfix.
Feedback appreciated. I can't turn my laptop into a potato to test 10fps or lower.

[spare moat]

i have an ai that can turn it into a potato, it does take trial and error to figure out how to do it though

[rich veldt]

it's fine, I just need users to report if it's misbehaving

it shouldn't matter what your fps is any more, within reason

[lucid valve]

Wait, should I be limiting my FPS to 30? Is that why I die to lag spikes on rare occasion?

[rich veldt]

you should probably do the opposite of that.

low fps makes some AIs break down

so the problem is

the AI takes a few frames to 'boot up'

during that interval, it's not actually DOING anything, but the tower testing is still happening

at a low enough fps, the enemies will arrive at the tower before it's finished boot, which means it's not ready and dies.

the hotfix makes it use Temporal Barrier in one of the first frames, extending the immortality to a little bit before the boot is finished.

I've not tested this properly so Idk if it has any 'far reaching consequences', but as long as you don't have, say, 2fps, it should be fine

and tbh if you have 2fps, there's nothing much I can do to help you. You'll just die unless you pause immediately, which isn't something I can do easily since I think pause is a click action which means knowing your resolution (or relativising it which is such a pain to do)

[rich veldt]

in general, though, lag spikes do tend to kill the tower yes, but not necessarily for this reason.

for many BPs, such as winWE, the problem is that enemies build up during the lag spike, then 'unload' all at once, overwhelming certain protections (like daigoparry), and destroying the tower suddenly instead of gradually.

I can't stop that except by increasing the frame rate or pausing/slowing the game at low fps.

master has a script to do that. It's called lagsaver.

[spare moat]

i think there might be a pause function, also i find manually pausing to work fine for first frame pausing, the game accepts pausing before tower testing is fully loaded

[rich veldt]

well, if there IS a pause function, then it is indeed something I can easily fix

I just put 'pause' in the init script

then unpause somewhere later in the script

so do check and lmk

better yet if you make the hotfix and share it here that'd be nice.

I might check myself later, but I'm a bit busy rn

[rich veldt]

hotfix for winWEL ai. (#1094013225915396127 message)
changed era disable logic. Hopefully fewer issues. LMK.

Attached is the entire AI package, sorry. Best way to do it. Only need to replace the era script though - didn't touch the others.

[It has come to my attention that the filename is broken. Please rename the file to winWEL_AI.txt after download. I can't without reuploading it and that is a pain on discord. In any case, it is a plaintext file so if asked, open it in notepad or your equivalent.]

[thick void]

is there a version that i could use without division shield? seems very hard to get

[rich veldt]

have you tried the same one without it?

division raises your tolerance, it doesn't 'make the bp work'

[thick void]

will have to try again then probably just enabled software to early

or does the ai manage all software already?

[thick void]

okay seem to have gotten it to work

[tribal holly]

@thick void has earned the Spark role!

[rich veldt]

idr, probably not, I don't have many software AIs

[junior rapids]

Alright so im using the WinAI 2.23 BP and the updated AI for it, but I keep dying after ~20 inf or so. With the round restart on, I am techincally still gaining some with every restart, but is that how its intended to work? Or should I have certain inf stones or software enabled/disabled for this? Im new to pushing high inf's so Im not entirely sure what im missing lol

[modern hornet]

winAI is intended for setting an idle

so it dies after 60 seconds

has no reason to continue

it can be used as a suicide bomb bp but thats for much much harder difficulties

your best bet is using the latest winRP

wait i just realised i misread

i think the advice still stands though

@junior rapids

[junior rapids]

No that is all very useful information, thank you

I was misunderstanding the intended use case for the BP I was running

[modern hornet]

alright no prob

[modern hornet]

happens

[rich veldt]

na u did good

[rich veldt]

feature. If you want something that lasts more than 60 seconds, use something that isn't designed to take unlimited damage at precisely 61 seconds.

[modern hornet]

i read their message as trying to reach inf 20

[rich veldt]

well, by remarkable coincidence your support was pretty much on point

[modern hornet]

yeah XD

[junior rapids]

I assume like the RPCat bp then that I need to use the Light stone to disable era stuff?

[modern hornet]

that is quite litearlly me

i also sometimes make 2 mistakes that cancel out

[modern hornet]

use light stone or era creep and upgrade the divisors

[rich veldt]

this except actually.
Maths is like that. Two formulae might be related except some key operation, so you end up arriving at the same place with different steps.

[rich veldt]

winAI recommends you keep light stone off. winWE, RPcat and winRP recommend you keep it on.

[modern hornet]

sometimes its something that makes sense, like forgetting a negative twice ( which ofc cancels out ) but sometimes its 2 mistakes that are seemingly unreleated but cancel out

[junior rapids]

Alright well WinRP just dies right off the rip lol

[rich veldt]

what kills you

[junior rapids]

what ever gets to me first

[uneven karma]

who would have thought that it cant survive impossible

[rich veldt]

that's just you dying to big finite damage. Every BP does that (with a few exceptions).
Try a lower region-difficulty.

[somber bridge]

talking so I can link

[tough basin]

You can click the “follow” button to follow threads btw

Think on pc gotta click the 3 dots top right

On mobile it’s just there at top of screen

[mental jasper]

Hi, would anyone recommend me a BP for getting era 1 in all dif/regions? im mt12

[tribal holly]

@mental jasper has earned the Spark role!

[rich veldt]

unfortunately that's the only thing I don't have available :/

[uneven karma]

1. ask in #infinity-phase

2. #1094003871434670191

[rich veldt]

cat's got one designed to do it

[mental jasper]

thank you guys!

[jade sparrow]

uncringe better for imposiible than winAI?
winAi - 600 sec 173 INF
uncringe - 600 sec 200 INF

[tough basin]

wdym by 600 second?

doesnt winAI only survive for 60?

[jade sparrow]

60*10=600

[tough basin]

but where is the *10 coming from?

[jade sparrow]

Waaagh
it's just control time
no matter how many races there were

[tough basin]

but then whats the point of the inf count? i dont get it because winAI can survive anywhere for 60 seconds, even inf100b chimps

[uneven karma]

And winUSB made to push by death

Anywhere

[jade sparrow]

the point is to get more imposiible infinity in the same time
uncringe gets faster than winAi in my tests

[tough basin]

winai isnt meant for climbing infs though?

so i dont get why your testing it to do that

[uneven karma]

Woot saying that WinAI is better for push than USB

[spare moat]

was this in game time?

[jade sparrow]

timer time

[spare moat]

Was were they both at same game speed?

was the light inf stone off for winAI?

[jade sparrow]

no light stone
i will try with it

[spare moat]

light stone should be off for einAI

you want them to deal unlimited damage

[jade sparrow]

yeees
mechanics
600 sec = 400 inf

ideal, but some time hp divider doesn't want to work

[supple narwhal]

most of the time, if a build requires light stone to be disabled it usually means that you don't even need to touch the dividers at all - not once.

[jade sparrow]

hp divider included in ai

[supple narwhal]

that's interesting.

[modern hornet]

same reason when measuring the period of a pendulum you dont do one swing, you do 10

[modern hornet]

yeah winAI upgrades the hp dividor i think just not the damage one

[supple narwhal]

ahh. yeah. that i remember now.

[spare moat]

you want an average

[rich veldt]

caidryn doesn't work as well if enemies have infinite HP, but doesn't work at all if enemies don't have infinite damage.

[rich veldt]

my tests showed the opposite. They were as thorough as yours, if not moreso, so I have to conclude it's a subjective thing. use winUSB if you prefer, I suggest people use winAI because that's what I found worked best for me.

[rich veldt]

this guy (cap) doesn't know about science lmao.

sample size is one of the most important metrics to consider when evaluating data

I also didn't just do 1 run - for starters, 1 USB is a lot shorter than 1 AI. I don't remember how many I did but I do remember timing them.

I suspect at very low infinity winUSB would outperform winAI

because of the mechanisms winUSB uses compared to winAI

haha those lines are roughly identical in length

[modern hornet]

they got much more on winUSB when they left the damage dividors

[modern hornet]

here

[rich veldt]

not sure how I wrote the logic, but this happens when you don't have enough xp for the line.

it should be a loop, might not be

[rich veldt]

I would expect winAI to perform very very badly when dividers are on. I would expect winUSB to perform about as well regardless of dividers, and I would expect winAI to be slightly better than winUSB at high inf, and slightly worse at very low inf, due to the methods they each use.

[modern hornet]

itneresting

[potent stratus]

how do i reach the beggining of this chat?

[hazy bane]

there's a pin with the message

or just hold middle mouse and drag up

[potent stratus]

ty, still learning how discord works

[rich veldt]

funfact middle mouse didn't work for me so YMMV

[hazy bane]

don't know why you're saying it here, but yes its very easy

[jade sparrow]

sorry wrong channel)

[barren fable]

Cooling Cell gives one additional refresh to reflect bp - already updated mine bp with it, and reach 1:40 with it

[rich veldt]

lasting longer doesn't help much. I suppose it makes pushing more efficient, but I never designed winAI to push (it does so by accident)

If the goal was to live as long as possible I'd probably also try using titanium hull as well as everything else.

can get...a long time. Depends on cooldown but maybe 5 minutes or more without refresh.
Refresh gives you about half a minute. I just don't care.

maybe later when I'm a little less sleepy

[somber bridge]

does spikes boost winAI in any way?

[rich veldt]

glacier? Maybe a little.

only way to boost winAI is to kill enemies earlier.

[somber bridge]

did it get nerfed though

still a boost if you oneshot with water armor

[rich veldt]

yes but that doesn't make it useless.

[somber bridge]

and generic armor

I would assume I would add those if I added spikes

[rich veldt]

try it.

[somber bridge]

would water protection also work

nvm there is no shield

unless I use advanced shield

this isn't as good as I thought

I don't have enough water armor/damage to oneshot

[rich veldt]

not surprising. The change took about e80 damage from us.

[somber bridge]

yeah 😦

[jade sparrow]

winAI with Cooling Cell = 92sec, and it seems to go faster

[tame niche]

A script to get ~5.5 min of invincibility out of cooling cell, refresh, immortality shield, titanium hull, and temporal barrier
not implemented with WinAI but could be added to that bp

[barren fable]

But you can't really get a lot of resources from running Titanium Hull, right?

[uneven karma]

Why?

If you mean in idle then absolutely no

Idle is avarge acros whole run

[barren fable]

my reflect bp does both infinity pushing and resource grinding - bp lasting longer just means i can push infinities faster, and also ramp up resource gains sooner that way

because wave accel goes higher overtime

after im done with instant stones, imma push r15 impossible a bit for resources

[round horizon]

How can i get the super bounce module ?

[rich veldt]

mate you're doing it wrong.
Something that does both things, does both things badly.
The idle will not be significantly better (in fact it may be worse if the kills happen in bursts) from a longer run, but you did just waste more of your time on that run.
If the resources are not significantly worse, then surviving as long as possible is not significantly detrimental to your idle.
And if you aren't surviving 5.5 minutes then you're wasting acceleration, and therefore more of your time on it.
These things are specialised.

As for TH, that's complicated.
At high enough infinity, you don't need the caidryn engine to push because wince can do it just fine, which lowers your kill speed by a small amount (~10% maybe). It also has other limitations - it doesn't make you invincible, you still need to survive massive damage.
My opinion is that if you can make TH work then it would not be much worse for resources than not using it, which almost quadrupling the run time. The problem is I don't think anybody can make TH work.

maybe at lower infinity it could be viable. It's not very difficult to get ~e200 armour which is enough for most of early chaos impossible (and absolutely overkill for everything else), but high chaos is e275. Getting that much resistance is very hard.

It's not impossible - far from it - but it's not easy either. I wouldn't design a BP that could do it because it's technically frustrating.

[somber bridge]

How would one achieve extremely high armor stats?

[tame niche]

titanium hull + generic armor + bulwark + refined armor

[somber bridge]

Although that usually isnt the bottleneck, it's universal and neutral

Oh I meant practically

[tame niche]

that's why generic armor

[somber bridge]

Yeah

But it is still leagues worse than the others

And caps at t100

[tame niche]

not if you don't plan on using the tower autoattack
which there's two good ways to do now (used to be 1)
borf and defensive bps both work

[somber bridge]

Woot, can you update your frag farming blueprints by chance?

[rich veldt]

tried, got frustrated, gave up

[somber bridge]

fair

how about a defensive borf bp?

[rich veldt]

not got any ideas :/

[somber bridge]

call it WinBRUH or smt

hm

man is the only thing useful in this udate really cooling cell for high diff inf pushing?

even kit's is kinda useless

[modern hornet]

kit is pretty decent

[somber bridge]

but idk it's hard to find a good place to put it in

[modern hornet]

i guess?

[somber bridge]

more awkward than weird

which is why I kinda wanna try borf

[modern hornet]

borf feels more limiting

i guess it could be best with something like toxic ivy

cuz the %reduction of health

[somber bridge]

fair but you could get away with ivy and super multi + super bounce

and then get a decent base projectile damage

stack up on defense

[modern hornet]

thats true

super multi is good

[somber bridge]

and then maybe borf + kit + focus modules if they do anything at all

[modern hornet]

oh yeah those focus modules gonna be strong with borf

might be a good build ngl

lmk if you reach anything

[somber bridge]

because with borf you don't need attack speed

or range

so you have a ton of extra module slots now

has anyone actually tried immolation? is it terrible?

[modern hornet]

it sounds bad idk

also we should prolly move to another channel

not the right one

[barren fable]

The idle will not be significantly better (in fact it may be worse if the kills happen in bursts) from a longer run, but you did just waste more of your time on that run.

It kills just as fast as a normal reflectbp, since its literally same bp with extra refresh.

Also, dude, Wave acceleration still has a long ramp-up on every reset 💀

Without cooling cell, my reflect bp goes 25 infinities in 25 seconds.

With cooling cell, it does 50 infinities in 38 seconds

[modern hornet]

you took that out of context though

its better if you make something for pushing infs and somethign for setting an idle

if you can do 25 in 25 seconds, good but then it might not get as many frags

[barren fable]

i never talked about frags? god

[modern hornet]

im explaining the context of woot saying that sentence

frags/resources/whatever idle

wasnt trying to be condescending or anything

[barren fable]

Win omits the impact of wave acceleration, which literally doubles every 5 seconds bp survives.

Its not a waste for Reflect bp to last longer, and that was my point since the start.

[modern hornet]

im not saying its a waste, its actually good

means you can take advantage of accel just like you said

[barren fable]

okay, okay, i think i get it, but as Win said, TH too convoluted to make work, so i will keep using my reflect bp to push a little and also get more resources

still think WinAI needs to have Cooling Cell, though, cause it cuts the time and amount of resets you need to get the stones to instant charging, and by a decent margin

[rich veldt]

I think this is the first time someone has called me win.

[rich veldt]

not much convoluted about TH, just makes building for chimp much harder (if not impossible outright).

[rich veldt]

maybe, but I'm not in a position to change it rn, and I really do not want to build the logic for it coz it sounds like effort.

[barren fable]

okay, all good

[rich veldt]

and the gain would be rather small for something that was never designed to push to begin with

[barren fable]

not that small in my case, cause its x1.5 more infinities per second on my bp

[rich veldt]

you're not getting 100b with it, mate. That's nothing.

[barren fable]

yeah, i'll probably get around to making TH in future

[rich veldt]

if you want resources, push heaven medium. If you want to charge stones, you only need 5,000 infinities which only takes a couple hours or something.

[barren fable]

okay, thanks, but for now imma just get instant stones

[sturdy dove]

On some maps I can get to like infinity 100k but on some maps i can barely get 1000, know why?

[tough basin]

enemy scaling and enemy types probably

[sturdy dove]

sure but I can get to high infinity in chaos but not on heaven, how does that make sense

[rich veldt]

would need to know a lot more to be sure

[sturdy dove]

these are my stats but i keep dying to either neutral or universal dmg

[tribal holly]

@sturdy dove has earned the Ember role!

[somber bridge]

Generic armor

It isnt about resistance, because there isnt an armor for neutral or universal other than generic

[uneven karma]

But generic armor sucks

[somber bridge]

For projectile builds and for later inf builds yeah

But for early mid inf it is very nice for reflect

[uneven karma]

It looks like they are using winWE or just late inf

Or maybe thats winRP

Idk

They gave 0 info

[somber bridge]

Yeah but better to explain

WinWE is very difficult to use at early inf

[potent stratus]

I cant make WinWEF work. Or I am killed in 3 seconds. Or AI close the run

didnt even know AI could do that

[uneven karma]

WinWEF is to survive 60seconds and set frag idle

After 60 seconds it exits

[potent stratus]

it is exiting in less time

[uneven karma]

If it don't work maybe not enough stats

[potent stratus]

it is closing in like 10 secs

what are the software I should let inactive?

[uneven karma]

It closes after 60 in-game seconds

[potent stratus]

speed is at 1x

wave compression inactive

I got specfic ai for winwef togheter with the build

I am messing badly

but not sure where

@uneven karma it is meant to work at any part of the progression correct? infinity and higher right?

[uneven karma]

Its made to work just like winWE but a bit worse

Or better

[somber bridge]

The tick counters stack each time you die

If you die, close ai and reopen before trying again

[potent stratus]

okay gonna check this

any other reccomendation?

I just wanna make it work

Maybe dino is right and I dont have enough dmg

i cant progress in even easier maps

lvl 68 modules are not enough as it seens

[somber bridge]

You do not have enough damage

Honestly with level 68 modules I would focus on getting more resources first

Then go to smth like dark ruins easy and inf 10m

Keep in mind the offensive is the easiest and does the most danage, try it before trying the others

[sturdy dove]

it is winrp

[rich veldt]

not exactly.
It closes after it what it thinks is 60 in-game seconds, which could be less than 60 in-game seconds if the counter is running more than twice (the intended number of times).
That can happen if the run restarts before cleanup happens.

[rich veldt]

winWEF will only work if winWE does, and winWE assumes you're fairly powerful, so no I can't promise winWEF would work

[rich veldt]

yeah, this. Be mindful of it.

[ornate perch]

What town perk distribution do you recommend for inf pushing winAI 2.23? I'm thinking damage/defense/gems

[rich veldt]

winAI doesn't need damage, defence, nor gems

but gems, resources, and assets; all help

[potent stratus]

I really dont know what I am messing up. Your build clearly works. By manually using winWE my idle improved. But the AI that you reccomnend for winWE simple doesnt do anything. The only AI and bp that I managed to make work was the duo from winAI 2.23

the others either die in 3 seconds or kick me from the test in 10 seconds (please take in consideration I am reseting after dying as reccomended)

I am also deactivating all the other AIs while running the tests

[rich veldt]

check how many instances you have active, 10 seconds implies you're running the AI twice as often

[rich veldt]

depends on what kills you but this might mean your stats aren't good enough to make winWE work for the regdif

[rich veldt]

winWE was not designed for low/mid infinity players and has pretty high requirements to work properly. I have no idea what is going wrong because I do not have enough data but this is my best guess rn

[potent stratus]

How can I check the number of instances? (tnx a lot for you help btw)

[rich veldt]

top left, look for 'tick'

should be two

sorry it's not called tick any more

apparently called clock2

also idk if I use WINEMAST in the BP but if it's aborting after 10s then it likely is

just look for any other duplicates as well, only clock2 should be duped and only once

[potent stratus]

WinWE dont use Winemast

[rich veldt]

does it not?

[rich veldt]

thought I finally introduced dark sac cycle

are you using an old ver or did I do a dumb

[potent stratus]

I got the pinned one

[rich veldt]

hm

[potent stratus]

just copied the code

didnt change anything

[rich veldt]

as in

experimental or 2.7

[potent stratus]

experimental

was afraid to used 2.7

because of the synergy warning

no info in the overlay while running test

[rich veldt]

the AI is just off

not sure why

check winWE main

[potent stratus]

main?

[rich veldt]

yes it's the control script for the AI

you can look at the others but I want to know why the AI isn't running

ah ok if your winWE is anything like the one I'm using rn, it doesn't have very clever dark sac logic but that's fine coz it works

[potent stratus]

Edit?

[rich veldt]

oh what the fuck

the package has the wrong name

[spare moat]

wait why does the package name end with a space

[rich veldt]

it doesn't, the package was/is called WinWE Ai (thank master for that)

[potent stratus]

wait I edited the name

this fucked it?

[rich veldt]

why would you do that

[spare moat]

yes

don't touch the name of the script or the package or you have to edit every single mention of it

[rich veldt]

you didn't just edit the name you moved the folder somewhere else

[potent stratus]

OHHHHH

[rich veldt]

so the script is trying to find it in a place that it doesn't exist in

you absolute potato

[potent stratus]

changing the bp name afect it also?

[rich veldt]

nah nothing calls BPs

just AIs

[potent stratus]

okay

it is by failing that we learn

Ty very much

[rich veldt]

nw, glad we got something out of it

[spare moat]

i had to edit several scripts when i decided to remove half of my tick and winemast scripts (seriously woot, why did you have to send them both with winai and winwef)

[potent stratus]

the name does make me activate the wrong one

but I will change the build name

to be the same as the AI

so that i dont forget

which is which

[spare moat]

it's funny how i ran out of 100 script storage and 20 bp storage

and a lot of it i can blame on woot

[potent stratus]

Another question

I can always let all the AIs active at the same time?

like the musem crafter and trasher?

or they mess up with each other?

[rich veldt]

it's complicated.
The short of it is I am very lazy and don't rename WINEMAST whenever I use it, and I use it a lot, so I mostly recycle/stitch parts of it and I just share the result, which can cause compat issues if I'm exporting WINEMAST multiple times.

[spare moat]

i have 17 woot scripts and 8 woot bps

[rich veldt]

you probably only need one control block for WINEMAST - only the spam and sync scripts need to be bespoke to the BP, although you do need to make sure your modulus (x, iirc) is correct.

[spare moat]

so i still caused more issues for my own script space than you did woot

this is all it is, right?

[rich veldt]

not sure tbh.
Some of my BPs are sensitive to lag, and don't like when too much is happening at once, so I suggest leaving any 'extra' AIs off.

But in general, there's no harm in having a hundred simultaneous scripts as long as they're not competing for the same ops (like mining or w/e)

[rich veldt]

huh? That's a control script, although I wonder why your version is still called tick when mine is apparently called wootclock2.
Different versions I suppose. Anyway, you need those 3 lines in your init, but you don't have to have them in a separate script.

whatever you use needs to create 2 instances of tick and initialise T to a value that should 'anticipate' the op cost 'so far'

otherwise you'll be out of sync by a tiny amount, which might be fine but I wanted to make the most precise clock I could

I might be able to streamline WINEMAST better.

I mean something that's able to be inserted into any BP so you don't need 30 copies of it or w/e

[spare moat]

i think i messed something up here

[rich veldt]

I'll brainstorm and maybe get to work on it tomorrow

idk maybe

[ornate perch]

seems winAI requirement for chaos impossible is higher than my current specs, my modules are around t77-80 and without the town perks when I tested it

[spare moat]

winAI should always work

is light stone disabled?

[ornate perch]

light stone is enabled

[spare moat]

disable it

[ornate perch]

oh interesting

[somber bridge]

you want the enemies to deal infinity damage

so they die

you are immortal

[ornate perch]

It perishes after 1min ingame time, I thought it was supposed to be 10mins?

[somber bridge]

1m

for idle

then you can go to your idle tab

[ornate perch]

winAI is also used for inf pushing, so the same phenomena should be observed?

[somber bridge]

try to push chaos impossible using anything that isn't a sui bomb

(not earthquake)

[ornate perch]

I see, thanks I now better understand winAI

[rich veldt]

winAI requires tier 1 modules mate.

[white forge]

sorry real quick - how do you get magical stone of floof

[rich veldt]

no, 10 minutes is something like the theoretical maximum and not worth designing for.
5 minutes is feasible without too much rework, but someone else has that BP and idk if it works well enough. It might not work at all, for all I know. I'd have to check. Something like 3 minutes isn't too difficult, but I don't care enough to implement it.

[rich veldt]

ask @left fog

[white forge]

lol valid

[left fog]

reeeeee

anyway

you disable universal era power in region 15

wait like 5 seconds to kill enemies and you have it

[spare moat]

it's 1/400 per kill

[spare moat]

did you revise your policy on it?

[left fog]

its been a long while i don't really mind if it's said

[spare moat]

revising policy knowledge

[west sage]

thank you, kind person! Just tried that but I did not get and floof balls

[tough basin]

its a chance to get with every disabled enemy killed

no popup when got

[west sage]

ah gotcha

[tribal holly]

@west sage has earned the Wildfire role!

[ornate perch]

ah so that's where I got the 10 mins from. thanks for clarifying

[keen sundial]

what are the main dmg elements of woot´s what even module build?

[tough basin]

nature

as it says in the desc of his WE first build that the others say to read

[rich veldt]

nature, via Nature's Touch, Gaia Synergy, Daybloom, and Void Synergy

[maiden moon]

What does it mean by infinity pushing?

[spare moat]

pushing higher infinities

[maiden moon]

I see

I think this isnt supposed to happen

I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong

Wait theres like other scripts running

Also noticed the multiple WinWE scripts there

Fixed those but somehow still not pushing infinities

[somber bridge]

what mt are you

[maiden moon]

mt15

I was using all softwares from the video

[hazy bane]

if you're inf pushing you should have all the software on, and inf 90/90 if you haven't gotten it yet

[maiden moon]

I also have those

still confused on how these bps work

my first time using it

from this channel

[sonic stump]

@maiden moon It seems the enemies still have era shield up in your video, think these need the lightstone perk to be effective out of the box
(era creeping would also help here)

[maiden moon]

ah I see

I'll try to do those for now

[rich veldt]

Woot's Astounding Idle Plus (AKA Woot's Aggressive Infinity Push AKA winWTF)

I'm not really sure what this is. A mess, is what. It utilises a bunch of down-right eldritch features to get a lot of infinities quickly (then explode).
It's far from perfect. It's all over the place. Don't ask me how it works. Don't suggest changes or improvements. Don't touch the AI. Don't touch the BP.
Assumes light stone and 0 cost era disables. A bunch of other assumptions I can't even list - don't expect troubleshooting support from me.

Works with wave restart, but probably not well. Simply make sure your wave record is below 100 million (use winAI for this) before using winAIP.
Best chimp I got was ~49k. Not tried other regs.

Largest AI I've ever made, complicated mess. Not even sure it behaves properly. Data would be appreciated.

BP (winWTF), AI attached.
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

[somber bridge]

If you struggle to survive the first hit, pause the game for 5 seconds before getting hit.

don't ask why.

it just works.

[rich veldt]

told you the BP is voodoo.

[tough basin]

woot is using black magic

he is now a scapegoat if speedy comes after us for abusing this

[rich veldt]

a lot of it.

yes I will take the fall idm.

worth it for the knowledge

[somber bridge]

because the stacks work even while the game is paused 😭

[rich veldt]

this shit is broken lmao.

it'll be dead soon dw.

[tame niche]

what marker should I look for it to start killing

[somber bridge]

yeah for sure

[somber bridge]

e[something] accel

[rich veldt]

it changes phase once you have ~e12 wave skip.

[somber bridge]

oh

[tame niche]

so the skips variable needs to hit e12

[somber bridge]

waves/interval

[rich veldt]

please do not mess with this. It is a tricky little fuck

just have faith in the e12

[somber bridge]

LMAO

[tame niche]

i was just making sure it wasn't stalled out (i was watching accel not skips)

[rich veldt]

accel is a nonsense value, skips is what matters

there's a var top right you can read.

it should be correct

[somber bridge]

but it's in named

[rich veldt]

yeah

I could've changed that

lazy don't at me

[somber bridge]

named notation lmfao idfc

[rich veldt]

at least it's not wingdings.

[somber bridge]

it just makes it funnier

if anything

[tame niche]

... mine is in full notation

[rich veldt]

mine's in full as well

if the number gets really massive (I tested with large values before to figure out what was a reasonable number), it'll use sci

[tame niche]

i think AIs don't like exponent representation

[rich veldt]

anyway I need to concentrate

[somber bridge]

wait nvm LMFAO

I'm stupid

it is

[modern hornet]

man woot what in the

[rich veldt]

winWTF is a fever dream.

enjoy it while it works.

[somber bridge]

this shit is so funny lmao

[tame niche]

one important question - what tier or percentage advanced heal

[rich veldt]

doesn't matter much

oh the AI should secure adv heal. I'll check that later.

[tame niche]

has not done so, it secured inf burst (probably necessary), nature armor (probably very useful), and shield amplifier (maybe swap this)?

[rich veldt]

yeah, swap shield amp.

I changed my version but I won't publish the changes yet

[tame niche]

found a weird issue: the dispel logic is not working properly. I think it's counting BORF as a debuff?
it's weird, but it's trying to dispel the slow from the wizards. Because of this, the energy regen is screwy

[rich veldt]

weird.

I think I asked it to only dispel with 2+ debuffs.

[tame niche]

changed it from >= 1 to <2 and it seems to work

[rich veldt]

because I didn't want to waste energy dispelling slow

oh right that makes sense

did I really write >= 1 rip

[tame niche]

maybe idk

[rich veldt]

lots of dumb stuff in the logic i'm not surprised.

[tame niche]

it's <= 1 but it wasn't working properly. who knows why.

[rich veldt]

I suppose borf would be a debuff, actually. That makes sense.

[tame niche]

it's not according to the debuffs number, so idk why <= 1 was still spamming dispel

Found it: the HP is set to % but isn't used correctly. Should be 0.95 not 95.0.
As is, the AI will spam heal even at full hp

[rich veldt]

huh.
Dumb unity.

[gleaming drum]

this the broken thing you were talking about the other day that you had inspiration to do?

[rich veldt]

maybe idr

[tame niche]

one funny requirement I found: needs 90/90 inf to work properly or else energy drains (at least that's what fixed mine)

[rich veldt]

odd

[tame niche]

makes some sense as it means the accel was lower and so enemies weren't hitting the tower frequently enough

[spare moat]

8 is the max speed from accel

[ornate perch]

I'm not sure what sort of data you are looking for, but I'm running your winAIP in heaven nightmare. My town level is around 350 and average module is around 87. Let me know if there are other metrics I can pull from my current run. My plan is to let it get to 100b, or as far as it could.

[rich veldt]

this about expected tbh. If the immortality engine isn't necessary then it's just a weird version of burnorf and has similar potential to it.

(higher, coz only wave 100m, but otherwise similar. I suspect it could beat chaos impossible with my stats)

mostly I'm looking for weirdness.

for example if certain enemies don't die, or if progress stalls at some infinity, or if you die randomly, or an active appears to never get used, and so on

[tame niche]

So problem (for me) found: ivy causes significant lag, at least for me
trying to figure out what to replace with:
ideas based on Woot's suggestion of making it more like BurnORF include more AOE or damage modules (nature splash, subsistence, impetus; focused multishot, inf attack/crit). Possibly even Unholy Missile as it's probably the largest damage boost that doesn't have downsides (unlike fracture, steinl's, death wish).
Not sure what optimal choice is.

[willow lion]

how fast is it supposed to push at impossible

[rich veldt]

which one?

winAI gets maybe 1 inf every few seconds. winAIP gets... I was able to get a few thousand after about 20 minutes

[willow lion]

oh ive been using winAI

[rich veldt]

that's fine. It wasn't designed for it, but seems to do it quite well

[willow lion]

WinAIP has been running for 5 mins in stage 1 easy, it's only at era 49b, infinity 1, my disable powers are still not maxed

[tame niche]

there should be a variable called "skips" in the top right, or go to stats and check Fixed Waves / Interval. If that's not at 9.999e11, you've got to wait until that point before it goes
AIP kinda charges up for a while then shoots off like a rocket

[willow lion]

Oh

Think it's at 2e11

[tame niche]

it typically takes up to 17 min to charge

[rich veldt]

it should do nothing for around 12 minutes, maybe longer depending on your acceleration boosts.

then it should survive for up to 5 minutes unless you're far below your tolerance, in which case it could last longer

[willow lion]

By removing the amount of wave skips in winAIP, technically it should still work if the other scripts didn't rely on hitting 9.9e11 right

[rich veldt]

you can bypass waves2, yes

idk why you'd want to

since imo winAIP is just a worse version of burnorf

[willow lion]

I want resources