Card Balance Suggestions [REVISED]

[waxen pendant]

I've said it before but I don't really want to comment on shotgun nerfs when neutral itself is broken. Golden boira is ridiculous in terms of neutral. Sable already requires more specified builds to be viable, and is just too situational as in some scenarios they are just very underwhelming, especially in 1v1

[void nest]

makes sense (I didnt see the part where you already said that.)

[waxen pendant]

Thats okie the thread is gigantic by now i don't expect anyone to read that much haha

[winter palm]

some of these cards have already been nerfed after this initial post was made, card thief is in a good spot as well as extra cards and no longer need nerfs

tho a card like extra cards will always likly remain meta do to the nature of the card.

[waxen pendant]

Thats true. I should probably update the new values for some. Although some changes i still disagree with

[rain canyon]

I kinda want swap weapons to be nerfed and buffed

[winter palm]

it was

[rain canyon]

Yea but I want more.

Buffed to take the most recently summoned non-boira weapon

Nerfed to 4 cost bc being able to take a 3 point card from the opponent (like a shotgun), and getting that weapon for yourself is so much value. And it’s not like you run the risk of the card going unused bc everyone and their grandma run weapons bc they’re OP.

[winter palm]

ew 4 cost, in this economy?

[dry venture]

make card profaner 5 cost

ill still use

[waxen pendant]

I thought about looking through the new numbers/changes and updating it but honestly whats the point

[winter palm]

lemme give actual thoughts on this, disarm i think is already a better card and nerfing weapon swap to a 4 cost i would just stop running it at that point. 4 cost is such an important slot in your deck already for cards that would easily clutch rounds and weapon swap wouldnt be effective enough to take that slot, it would be far too expensive, the current cost and effect is perfect were it is and there are cards that need far more attention.

[rain canyon]

I've been thinking about disarm too but nothing concrete to do about it yet. Just feels very powerful for a 2 cost

Don't entirely agree with the statement tho. I think Weapon Swap is a lot more powerful than disarm in 1v1, and in 2v2 the only thing making weapon swap terrible is it's prioritization which is why I'd wanna buff it to make it more useful in 2v2

[thick thicket]

All I want is to Ruki

To buy

Zomboid.

🔪

I miss playing with him

[winter palm]

[rain canyon]

Ruki isn't your plaything!

[thick thicket]

https://tenor.com/view/miau-pet-cute-happy-gif-16348211

[rain canyon]

cute

[winter palm]

i just dont think the solution to meta cards is to make them all expensive, I disagree with the sentiment, it would just make another card not to run, it'll just make issue cards more prevelent and harder to counter, there needs to be counter cards to combat strong cards such as shotgun/albitross.

[thick thicket]

When is Snail playing with us again.

[rain canyon]

one day 🙏

[rain canyon]

fair. I just have a hard time arguing for NOT putting those cards in my deck and it feels like it really lowers deck variety. Very very rare I see a deck without disarm for example

I'd agree changing costs isn't a great fix typically but it's tough to change anything that has a unique effect rather than just a set % or # increase/decrease or timer

[winter palm]

if you want to see less disarm, we nerf the stronger weapon cards.

that is the solution

i think disarm should always remain the same as is, and any nerf on it would be an inderect nerf due to weapons being nerfed

[rain canyon]

I'd be down for nerfing weapons. They've been too strong compared to buff/debuff cards, especially since buff/debuff was nerfed

That does sound like the better route

I still stand by the buff to swap weapons tho. Feels unintuitive and annoying how it works in 2v2, and it makes it a bit useless with the current meta (Stevie)

[winter palm]

weapon nerfs i think should happen:

albatross: mag size 10 to 6

shotgun: longer reload speed, and bloom increased

gold boira: mag size decreased by 2 and added range damage falloff (possible compensation buff?: removed weapon recoil)

[thick thicket]

Make it 5 bullets.

[winter palm]

for what? albatross?

i can be ok with that aswell

[thick thicket]

Yes

[rain canyon]

Reload speed decrease or reload time increase if it’s a nerf

[winter palm]

hm?

[rain canyon]

Increasing reload speed of boomstick is a buff

[winter palm]

ah yea decrease i mean

fixed

[waxen pendant]

I think the weapons do need a nerf but I'd say we need neutral fixed first

[wise oriole]

neutral is so bad atm

especially on maps like rooftop

like what are we supposed to do

also weapons nerf??
I think weapons need a nerf only for akimbo
akimbo alba and boomstick is very unfair

[winter palm]

neutral?

you mean the basic boira?

i disagree other weapons are just too good

[waxen pendant]

I mean the state of the game without factoring in cards. Namely stevie's gboira, sable's katana and klustr's turrets

Some characters require more to gain advantage in neutral etc, and that applies a lot to weapons too

[winter palm]

that's very broad

we all know stevie needs to be nerfed

[waxen pendant]

Its basically saying id want neutral to be more balanced so we can see how powerful everything else is

Stevie being nerfed would help balance neutral

[winter palm]

i gotcha

[wise oriole]

saying stevie needs a nerf is like saying the sky is blue

[waxen pendant]

this sky is a lot easier to change in comparison though

[dry venture]

🙂

[rain canyon]

Sends 35 billion metric tons of waste into the atmosphere

[void nest]

just replying about this, I think as a nuetral it is pretty broken, but they do get 1 shot. They have a counter of long range, so mabye the range could just be shortened?

bro, i just looked at the three messages above mine and it just physically hurt me.

[waxen pendant]

which are you referring to? (the 1 shot bit)

[void nest]

BRUH I forgot to say it is klustr jr’s turrets

[waxen pendant]

Ohh. You find them too strong? I was saying they need to be buffed a lil :p

[void nest]

i dont think that they are too strong, BECAUSE of the range.

i was saying that if they needed a debuff, the best thing would be range.

[winter palm]

im confused on what's being said here

you think they need less range?

the range already got a massive nerf after day 1

kluster is a D teir character rn, and needs a buff.

[thick thicket]

🔪

[fierce trout]

[void nest]

I was saying they didnt need a nerf, but if there had to be one, range would be the way to go, sorry for the missunderstanding.

[winter palm]

they did both

and they also decreased firerate

[void nest]

ok

[winter palm]

so yea huge nerf

[void nest]

I think that its pretty hard to boost the turrets without making them 2x better

they already do 1 damage, so a damage buff( if staying with integers) would double the damage

[winter palm]

no thy dont need dmg buff

all im asking for is for them to be able to take 1 more boira shot

[void nest]

makes sense

[thick thicket]

[wise oriole]

If we are talking about klustr my boy did not deserve the nerfs
Nerfs were so quick we hadn't of even developed counter play to it

Now they're so weak

I would say they need a little firerate buff and a health buff
Also make sable do more damage to the turrets.
Boira takes like 5 shots to get it out but katana still makes it one swing

Turret damage is mediocre at best but a firerate buff will make sure they're a force to be reconed with if left unattended

[rain canyon]

I’m pro katana and explosions doing extra structure damage even tho it’s a niche utility

[wise oriole]

Same here

Its what you see in other shooters
Melee weapons being good against buildings or weapons being made to counter buildings

[rain canyon]

I think headshot turrets are underrated af. Putting a turret in a high spot and big heading the opponent = DAMAGE

Oh god I should try and do a turret brain kill

[wise oriole]

More of the ladder tbh

[wise oriole]

That would be disgusting

I do think that turrets always aim for body 90% of the time

Rarely hit head

[rain canyon]

I think they aim at center mass (chest/stomach). But if they’re above someone with a big head aiming down at them their head is in the way of their chest

[wise oriole]

Yeah

That makes sense

[rain canyon]

Hmm how much damage does ca turret do, like 5? That would be 3 Brain shots

[wise oriole]

How much does brain multiply the damage?

[rain canyon]

10x body damage

So like boira does 13 body and 130 brain

[wise oriole]

Oh damn

Also while we are on the topic of brain atm make shots to someone's brain in titan deal more damage

[lost grove]

theres no kill like overkill

[rain canyon]

Titan brain is kinda underwhelming. Surprisingly hard to hit despite how humongous it is

[wise oriole]

And the fact that they can also just look away and or ice block

Even then it takes like 5 boira shots to kill someone in brained titan

If not more

[rain canyon]

Or nuke or ninja smoke or empty mag or or ninja log or tin man or blabla

[wise oriole]

Yeah

Or painkillers

Painkillers are super underrated

At max no damage for 6 seconds

[rain canyon]

Painkillers are extremely underrated. I’ve never gotten super good use out of them but tbh I haven’t used them much. Cake mommy destroys me with painkillers

[thick thicket]

🔪

[waxen pendant]

[plush drum]

🪴

[waxen pendant]

https://youtu.be/AUnPN385wLI

i feel like this is relevant in some way :>

[winter palm]

"that's not what it does" -🤓

[thick thicket]

https://tenor.com/view/kitty-eepy-gif-10295980600460052163

[thick thicket]

I wish this would happen. 😭

[waxen pendant]

you bein eepy?

[thick thicket]

🤔

[old grove]

While I am very new to the game I already went against someone with a Self-destruct card in 1v1 and I 100% agree that card needs to be nerfed. Its a lazy way to win simply because all they have to do is wittle you down enough then if they start losing make sure to get close enough before you finish them off. Part of me wants to say nerf and bar it from 1v1 matches but thats just my inexperience talking plus Thick Skin is a thing and they still have to actually draw the card.

[rain canyon]

They don't even need to whittle you down first. When maxed it does 200 damage

[waxen pendant]

Just wanted to make a quick note that I really like the new changes and agree with them all for the most part. May update this thread once I get into playing again

[quiet sapphire]

Aahh thank you so much for the bumb

We can actually start discussing balance changes again cus the devs are listening to suggestions

My first proposal is making parlay a 2 cost card

Nuke as a 2 cost is wayy better card that can be used similarly but parley is 3 cost

[quiet sapphire]

This still very relevant

[quiet sapphire]

@thick thicketany more suggestions?

[thick thicket]

Will think about it for now, but waaaay less radius on sdd

[quiet sapphire]

yeah i agree

[thick thicket]

I'm fine with the damage, but needs to be more high risk high reward

[quiet sapphire]

well sure

[quiet sapphire]

how would you nerf tiny?

[thick thicket]

Take more damage

Like 20-25% max level

[quiet sapphire]

do you think 25 secs is fine?

[winter palm]

yea it goes past the explosion indicator which is kinda bs

[quiet sapphire]

yep exactly

[thick thicket]

20 would be fine

Or 15

[quiet sapphire]

yeah imo 15 would be besst

[winter palm]

nerf its dmg to 65-140 from 65-200 and nerf its range to 6m to 4m

4m is the range of a standard bomb

[quiet sapphire]

i highly agree

[winter palm]

may aswell make this 4 cost last 2 seconds at this point

because nobody will run it

im exageratting a bit, 20 seconds should be fine

[quiet sapphire]

imo tiny is just 3x better iron man for +1 cost

so it should have numbers increased to 20 and possible timer decrease

[winter palm]

huh, its usecase is way diffrent. there's allot of things tiny wouldnt dodge

that ironman can

[quiet sapphire]

hmm only against bombs

literally

[winter palm]

numbers increase to dmg taken is fine

[winter palm]

wrong, if someone does mindblowing and bullettime ur still dead aswell

[quiet sapphire]

but tiny is better against brain

than iron

[winter palm]

not with bullettime, or anything someone combos brain with

[quiet sapphire]

or did iron counter brain

[winter palm]

it counters it

jani please you used it in the tunement against my brain xd

[quiet sapphire]

ok 80% of cases tiny is just 3x better than iron man for 1+ cost

[quiet sapphire]

yeah i forgot about iron brain

thats why i asked

but honestly the tiny hitbox with good movement is practically as good as iron man invicibility

[winter palm]

yes i get that

whole point of the card

[quiet sapphire]

but its 25 sec compared to iron mans 7

[winter palm]

i mean edU alredy stated that it'll probably get nerfed

25 is a bit overkill i agree

20 seconds should be a good nerf to start with, and maybe increase dmg taken.

[quiet sapphire]

but idont want to overnerf it too

[winter palm]

same, i just worry if you increase the dmg taken too much, just take 3 stray bullets from and FK and instantly die

then ask urself what was the point

[thick thicket]

Agreed

[winter palm]

15 seconds, 20% extra dmg but to compinsate make it a 3 cost?

[quiet sapphire]

sure

i agree a ton

[unreal ruin]

Tbh I'd make sdd cap out at 60 like bombs were and make it a 1 or 2 point card

Trap cards in general would be cool if they were cheaper. Right now people only run 1 or 2 which means you never get to bluff or do any shenanigans

[winter palm]

https://tenor.com/view/byuntear-meme-reaction-emoji-nops-gif-15657180555152423963

[quiet sapphire]

60 is too much a nerf but id be up for damage nerfing sdd too

[winter palm]

im more against it being cheaper

[quiet sapphire]

yeah it should stay 3 cost

[quiet sapphire]

Oh ruki!

i have an amazing idea!

make bear trap a trapcard!

it reaveals only if beartrap gets destrouyed or triggered

[winter palm]

ive said this since the game came out

[quiet sapphire]

yeah, and with 40hp its fun to panic shoot it

we should rally for this next balance suggestions

[winter palm]

PLEASE INCREASE THE COST OF PRESENT

[quiet sapphire]

NO 0 Cost present

[winter palm]

its fun to see but 1 cost for that much caose is too much

[quiet sapphire]

more than 1 0 cost cards are sounding scary already

[quiet sapphire]

i dont think its a high priority nerf

[winter palm]

i think it is

also fire really needs a QoL change

[quiet sapphire]

i agree at 2 cost would be fairer but, tiny, fire, profaner, reroll are way more important to nerf

[winter palm]

apparently the effect of fire damage stacking is intentional

[winter palm]

it's a number change theres no reason it would need to be delayed or pushed back.

[quiet sapphire]

well yeah

[winter palm]

these other nerfs are ether touchy, need more testing, or will take some time as it requires more coding and isnt just number tweaks.

something i keep forgetting to bring up again, albitross needs a mag size nerf

10 needs to be changed to 8 or even 6

10 is too many chances lol

and why people can hipfire so freely with it

[quiet sapphire]

oh i agree

[quiet sapphire]

imo its kinda fun

but very powerful too

especially with monitor scrosshair

[winter palm]

its hipfire is fine but it doesnt come with any risk due to its massive mag size

[quiet sapphire]

hmm what about make it 7

well or 6

[winter palm]

6 makes the most sense

[quiet sapphire]

6 would be good

but also that would buff sable you know.

i dont wana over buff sable

imo sable is in good place now. Trying to avoid more sable buffs

[winter palm]

So far I have:

• Fire QoL change: fire damage hitboxs no longer stack their damage ( effects that involve fire may need more balancing to compensate)

• Albatross nerf: Mag size from 10 to 6

• Self-Destruct Device nerf: deals 65-140 damage from 65-200, range decreased to 4m from 6m

• Present nerf: cost 2 from 1

• Tiny spell QoL: 15 seconds, 20% extra dmg from 25 seconds, 10% extra dmg but to compensate make it a 3 cost from 4 cost

• QoL change cards like bear trap and landmine to trapcards so that they're hidden in the cardfeed

[quiet sapphire]

lets add parley to 2 cost?

and what do you think aobut buffing bomb lover

[quiet sapphire]

and carefully so cus bomb lover is in present

[winter palm]

idk how many ppl agree with that, i think its fine as 3 but maybe more ppl would agree with you? i try not be bias

[quiet sapphire]

my main argument is that nuke is wayyy better that parlay in almost all cases when used for same purpose and its 2 cost. that s why parley could be 2 cost

[winter palm]

you cant move during nuke and spawns are random but i see the argument

[quiet sapphire]

yeah and also nuke has majorly more and better combos than parley, and parley has merely none

iv seen a lot of people agree to make it 2 cost

also it will be a great counter to tiny

that we need

[winter palm]

it sounded like the combos with nuke were going to be adressed

[quiet sapphire]

nuke still ahs much more combos outside of heartless

[winter palm]

and parley is actually really strong against allot of timer based cards that nuke isnt

[quiet sapphire]

its as strong imo, the transition and finding players in the map takes like 5 secs

[winter palm]

i think it is kinda a sleeper and will get powercreep as more timer based cards are introduced

[quiet sapphire]

and parley is 7

[winter palm]

it's 2 seconds

[quiet sapphire]

depends on spawns

and in 1v1 can be way more, or in 2v2 when there are 2 people left

talking about + secs on finding players again

or parley could be like 10 secs if you dont like it for 2 cost

but i think its obvious parley should be somehow buffed

[winter palm]

btw i think landmine should have a breif arm time, like it wont be active for 1 second after being placed.

so people stop using as a 1 cost sdd

[quiet sapphire]

i agree, i suggested just a dmg nerf to it

[thick thicket]

I told a dev, but he was like ''haha funny haha''

[winter palm]

https://tenor.com/view/sad-rat-crying-rat-profound-sadness-fototeta-gif-27638214

[quiet sapphire]

at least present is bugged so its worse

[quiet sapphire]

oh guys

new idea

how do you feel about making poison bomb 1 cost?

toxic bomb compared to all other bombs sucks, karrotow is waayyyy better for 2 cost. And 1 cost bomb and skicky are way better that 2 cost toxic

[thick thicket]

Fact. 1 cost.

It sucks.

😭

[quiet sapphire]

Yep

would be good to combo with buffed predator vision now

[winter palm]

ah that reminds me, bugged perma pred vision is till a thing,

that needs a fix

[quiet sapphire]

yess, very much

[winter palm]

i'd run it in all my decks if it was a 1 cost, its actually a really good zoning tool

[quiet sapphire]

yeah it would be on par with sticky. it would be great

[winter palm]

but it would just outclass smoke bomb

[quiet sapphire]

i dont hink so, cus smoke bomb lasts 3x longer and does no self or enemy dmg

[winter palm]

how often do you make use of the full duration tho

[quiet sapphire]

well you can use the full duration to block turrets

[winter palm]

true

[quiet sapphire]

or if your weapon is better at close range

heres my tierlist for balance

[quiet sapphire]

@thick thicketdo you think counter card could be 2 cost?

[thick thicket]

Yes

[quiet sapphire]

would be on par with silence

[quiet sapphire]

what do you think about the balance list?

[quiet sapphire]

also all 1 cost cards that i want buffed here just need number buffs, no more 0 cost cadrs pliz

and tp bomb travel speed could be buffed

[quiet sapphire]

new sugggestions

toxic bomb to 1 cost

card counter to 2 cost

hot potato to 1 cost

katana to 2 cost

[quiet sapphire]

Phantom bullets to 2 cost?

[sharp lion]

i think Ribberto's personality card should just be a random Personality like how it is when two Ribberto's 1v1

so its more of a fun dice roll that makes both sides adapt to it instead of just "oh im fighting Donnie B so now im Donnie B except i don't have a deck built around Donnie B"

[rain canyon]

That's a suggestion I've seen a lot and thought about myself and it's hard for me to decide. Because I really like the fact that you get to play who your opponent is playing and give them a taste of their own medicine to level the playing field. But it does sound like a great amount of fun getting a new personality every round instead, and I really love doing 2v2 all ribberto already

[winter palm]

great suggestion i'd second this

[grave moss]

Rolling the dice on his character sounds right with DnD

[waxen pendant]

Didn't really mean for this thread to blow up again. Nor for it to turn into a forum for more suggestions. That being said I'll try to take note of some things raised whenever i make the new thread.

[waxen pendant]

Can agree with all these. Though for SDD I'd probably want to adjust the range a lil slower but still want it nerfed.

[winter palm]

slower?

[waxen pendant]

I mean lowering the range by maybe 0.5 or 1 at a time until it finds a good spot

That being said I think I also wished it had a fizzle time on self detonate if i recall

[winter palm]

reason i say 4 is it would make the indicator accurate and it'd be consistnat with other explosives, if they fix the indicator for 5 i can see an arguement for it

[waxen pendant]

That's fair. I just rather go down a decent bit at a time. Plus we want the damage weaker too.

Can get a lil confusing if we nerf it too much then buff it again

And we have to take into account some of the really far range sdds are due to latency

[quiet sapphire]

Latency is rarely an issue

Only in high ping lobbies

[waxen pendant]

I have to connect with a vpn to play the game at all. So yeah it depends.

[winter palm]

i think it would be fine and a little more healthy for the game if the card became niche

i dont think anyone would ever call the card underpowerd ether

[waxen pendant]

That's part of why i would prefer to nerf things bit by bit. Cause realistically even a very hard nerf would be widely welcomed at this point so its harder to find a sweet spot for it

[winter palm]

that's a part of balancing, things that deserve it can be hit mega hard we can always see how to performs afterwards and if it was hit too hard we can give some power back

[quiet sapphire]

Bomb to 100dmg?

Brasshopper dmg falloff buff?

[quiet sapphire]

Make card profaner draw the copied cards next round
Or
Make that same card sannot be played twice in the same round if it was from profaner

[rain canyon]

too much. Especially with how good bomb belt is now. I wouldn't recommend above 90, but prob should start with 80 and see how it feels.

I find it more important to nerf sticky

[unreal ruin]

I thought bomb was 60

sticky and mine are 100

[rain canyon]

mine 140 sticky 100 bomb 70 currently

[quiet sapphire]

Bomb belt has different bombs no?

[plush dragon]

Okay hear me out tho

Keep it as it is

But lower its attack speed

[quiet sapphire]

I suggested that too

[plush dragon]

Ah didn't see

[quiet sapphire]

At some other place

[plush dragon]

Generally I think it'd be better

Bc it'd make it worse at range

But give you more breathing room if they fluke a shot

[quiet sapphire]

It would be better

[plush dragon]

Whilst still feeling powerful

It wouldn't just be a shotgun volley

[quiet sapphire]

But tbh its not priority to nerf since there are so many counters to it

[plush dragon]

Yeah

Akimbo be like that

A lot of power and a lot of counters

I'd argue all akimbo combos are rather balanced

Even if getting cross map vaporised doesn't feel great

[quiet sapphire]

Nah, shotgun akombo is way better than all others

[plush dragon]

I dunno man

Spike has a strong alternative with sniper akimbo

Since it can one shot on headshots with one bullet

[quiet sapphire]

Tbh it does same dmg even at range

Sometimes akimbo shotguns oneshot at range too

[plush dragon]

Sometimes

But not nearly as consistently

[quiet sapphire]

And its easier to aim

[plush dragon]

Akimbo sniper nearly guarantees that if you aim right they are just dead

151 damage my beloved

Gotta love spike breaking important damage thresholds

Either way with good aim it terrorises anyone at basically any range

The rest of akimbo combos aren't bad just

Not as good

Fk akimbo is pretty good ig

[quiet sapphire]

Shotgun is same power level

[plush dragon]

Boira/gboira akimbo is

Okay

Won me a few fights

Brasshopper akimbo is alright

[quiet sapphire]

Its great with slow time and stevie

[quiet sapphire]

Only usable with poison

[plush dragon]

I mean its not that awful its just underwhelming

Its just worse fk akimbo

[quiet sapphire]

Ye but much cheaper

[plush dragon]

Yeah

Uhh

Laika akimbo is

I mean it ain't bad

It feels nice

[quiet sapphire]

Its pretty bad

It has the best animation

But not very effective

[plush dragon]

It will never feel bad to akimbo revolvers

Even if they aren't that great

And with good aim you can probably get a good chunk of use outta it

[quiet sapphire]

Akimbo katana is great but only for killing one target

Once you get close

2v2s you kill one but you are probably dead to next enemy cus no block

[plush dragon]

Akimbo punch r

Uhhh

I don't have an opinion

Didn't play with it enough

And akimbo flamethrower

Uhhh

Overkill

[quiet sapphire]

Doesnt
Do anything

Litterally

[plush dragon]

Okay that's funny

I don't use the flamethrower ever so

[quiet sapphire]

It doesn not increase dmg at all

[plush dragon]

I wouldn't know

Generally akimbo is at least decent whenever you use it with most things

Which I mean

It's not bad

I run akimbo in my deck for more consistency

Because it works will all the weapons I have

Given I am on the tip of the spike mindset

And the 12% damage bonus does skew some akimbo synergies

Like the one shot headshots on akimbo sniper

Or 25 dmg gboira headshots

[quiet sapphire]

So far we have:

• Fire QoL change: fire damage hitboxs no longer stack their damage ( effects that involve fire may need more balancing to compensate)

• Albatross nerf: Mag size from 10 to 6

• Self-Destruct Device nerf: deals 65-140 damage from 65-200, range decreased to 4m from 6m

• Present nerf: cost 2 from 1

• Tiny spell QoL: 15 seconds, 20% extra dmg from 25 seconds, 10% extra dmg but to compensate make it a 3 cost from 4 cost

• QoL change bear trap to trapcard so that its hidden in the cardfeed

• parley buff: to 2 cost from 3

• toxic bomb buff: to 1 cost from 2

• rework card profaner to either draw the copied cards next round of copy from enemy graveyard

• brasshopper buff: dmg falloff scale increase, does more dmg from further away

• katana CARD buff: to 2 cost from 3

• landmine nerf: max dmg to 120 from 140 and range decrease by 1 m

• phantom bullets buff: to 2 cost from 3

[plush dragon]

Also I have a spicy opinion on landmine as I expressed before

Giving it a 0.5s arming time after landing would make it considerably worse at combos

[quiet sapphire]

Would be ok too but id still nerf the range too

[plush dragon]

Yeah fair

[quiet sapphire]

what do you guys think about making no jump 3 cost?

[plush dragon]

I think no jump could stay as 2 cost if it was made shorter

[quiet sapphire]

yeah

no jump nerf to 20sec from 23

[plush dragon]

I'd say 15 seconds would be better

It's one hell of an annoying card

Especially on some maps

cough Trucks cough

The fact that you either have to have a specific card or just stall the game is definitely annoying

[quiet sapphire]

double jump overiding it is a huge counter tho

id first nerf it to 20 secs to see how it fairs

[plush dragon]

I mean yeah but like its still one card in the whole game

Cheap one but still

[quiet sapphire]

and many times no jump doesnt matter if you aim and do dmg well

[plush dragon]

I mean yeah but dodging is way harder

And that's like

Also a big part of combat

Same for positioning which you just can't do

Let's take an example of other debuff cards that disable basic game functions

Freeze gun

It's what

Like 3s

Hell other debuff cards from the same price aren't even close to being no jump

[quiet sapphire]

how do you guys feel about nerfing healthpack

[plush dragon]

i mena

its alright

[quiet sapphire]

@strange phoenix ggs

[rain canyon]

It’s level 1 of the bomb card I think, which is 60 dmg rn. I’d maybe like to see bomb go from lvl 1 60 dmg and lvl max 70 dmg TO 70 lvl 1 and 90 at max lvl

[quiet sapphire]

Hmm not sure then about buffing bomb belt thon

[cedar compass]

If you wanted to nerf Med Pack, maybe make it so it does a small burst and then regen?
Like a lv 4 med kit would give you 60HP and then slowly give you the remainder over a small period of time?

Just spitballing

[iron stump]

bomb belt doesn't need a buff its fine where its at

[waxen pendant]

Makes it useless if drawn on last round. Feel like that's been discussed before

[waxen pendant]

Already suggested in original post.

[waxen pendant]

Fire reworked so it's actually consistent and not killing people instantly sounds good.
Albatross nerf sounds fine to me but wouldn't high priority it.
Ssd my suggestion remains same for now.
Present to 2 sounds fine.
Tiny i would not want as a 3 cost, i hate the card tbh. But haven't experienced it enough.
Traps being hidden like normal trap cards is fine i think. Toxic bomb my suggestions stay same.
Profaner needs to have reliable value regardless of when drawn so no.
Brass idk
Katana idk
Phantom idk

Reworkin healthkit to heal a bit overtime would probably be fine too, although not sure its a priority. It is a staple card I'll admit but doesn't feel as negatively impacting gameplay as others. Regen bit might promote a more campy style too so its difficult to say

[quiet sapphire]

Its just too swingy and its a must have card

[quiet sapphire]

Yeah, iv just been sick of double buffs or debuffs that profaner still problematically introduces. I think making it copy from enemys graveyard is interesting

[quiet sapphire]

Pre-profaner era was so much better

Double buffs and debuffs happened much rarely and it took communication to play it in the same round

[cedar compass]

What if for card profaner, stacking the buffs/debuffs is not an additive change, but a multiplicative one?

So currently how it works: let’s say for Slow Reload, which inflicts a -40% penalty, if you profane and play the card again, instead of applying another -40%, it would consider what effects are already in play:

Additively: 40% + 40% = -80% reload penalty

Multiplicatively: 40% x 40% = -56% reload penalty

Obviously this isn’t a perfect solution since things like Health Up/Down aren’t % based

[quiet sapphire]

Wouldnt that make things worse

And make doubling cards even more powerful?

[cedar compass]

It would be a nerf to percent-based bonuses/reductions

Making stacking less effective

[rain canyon]

true. But stacking is the least powerful use of Profaner. I'd rather try to nerf the more powerful use of using powerful combos twice in a row

[quiet sapphire]

Imo stacking is as powerful and annoying as powerful bombos

[rain canyon]

eh to each their own

I think a stacking penalty still would be nice tho, although more so for preventing too oppressive stacking in 2s

[cedar compass]

I just played a 2v2 with a friend in which the enemy team was able to profane and stack three Slow Reloads for a total of -120% reload nerf.

Funnily enough, an infograph from a separate game that someone made better demonstrates the math.

[quiet sapphire]

Bump!

Lets keep this active!

New suggestion popped up

Big mag buff: to 1 cost from 2 cost

Will be comparable to 1 cost more accuracy

[wise oriole]

Agreed

[quiet sapphire]

okkkaayy

let's revisit this in couple days and put our new balance suggestions

right off the bat ill put here that when extra cards and card thief is 3 cost with the value of 2 cards its stupid that card counter is 3 cost with value of 1 card being countered

so the card counter should be buffed. Maybe just make it 2 cost

review of balance suggestions

• ❌ Fire QoL change: fire damage hitboxes no longer stack their damage ( effects that involve fire may need more balancing to compensate)

• ❌Albatross nerf: Mag size from 10 to 6

• ✅Self-Destruct Device nerf: deals 65-140 damage from 65-200, range decreased to 4m from 6m [🔹 dmg was nerfed to 65-130🔹 ] might still need range nerf

•❌Present nerf: cost 2 from 1

• ✅Tiny spell QoL: 15 seconds, 20% extra dmg from 25 seconds, 10% extra dmg but to compensate make it a 3 cost from 4 cost [🔹dmg dealt is 20% and dmg received now -50%🔹] good change

• ❌QoL change bear trap to trapcard so that it's hidden in the card feed

• ✅parley buff: to 2 cost from 3 [🔹 now 1 cost🔹 ] pretty good

• ✅toxic bomb buff: to 1 cost from 2 [🔹now does a tad more dmg 🔹 ] might still need cost buff to 1 cost

• ❌rework card profaner to either draw the copied cards next round of copy from the enemy graveyard

• ❌Brasshopper buff: dmg falloff scale increase, does more dmg from further away

• ✅katana CARD buff: to 2 cost from 3 [🔹dmg reduction now 85% with 1 more bullet 🔹 ] pretty good for Sable but katana card needs a cost buff to 2 cost

• ✅landmine nerf: max dmg to 120 from 140 and range decrease by 1 m [🔹range reduced by 0,4m🔹 ] dmg might still be too much

• ❌phantom bullets buff: to 2 cost from 3

• ❌Big mag buff: to 1 cost from 2 cost

[waxen pendant]

What do all those symbols mean

[quiet sapphire]

x is ithat the suggested change didnt go through

green is that the suggestion made it throught or variation of it touched the card in question

[thick thicket]

🔪

[fervent kernel]

Alby should be Goodie with 8 bullets imo(just like boomstick)

[thick thicket]

6 minimum

[fervent kernel]

Cuz it can 70 and 105 and any range but the boomstick can only do that close range?

....fair!

[thick thicket]

I feel like there isn't a reason to ads yknow.

[fervent kernel]

Ye

No scopes is just better and easier

[thick thicket]

Honestly I want it at 5, but thats just me.

[fervent kernel]

Hey, you can hit your shots! I can't

Hehehe

[thick thicket]

I don't use it. 😭

Flamethrower too good right now.

[fervent kernel]

What do you use atm(I guess you rlly don't play FvF much?)

[thick thicket]

The sniper.

Why would I use a sniper when I can stack someone for more than 150 damage in 4 ticks.

[fervent kernel]

Tru

[fervent kernel]

Should I use boomstick or Flame tho

[thick thicket]

Hey! I'd use both, but I'd stick to the shotgun.

All of them are good.

[fervent kernel]

Always stick with Fk and shotty so I can play this game braindead and still get kills. But flame is rlly goodie when it works and Alby is....Alby

Just thinking

[thick thicket]

I'd swap fk for flame.

FK is just a faster Golden Boria.

[fervent kernel]

I'll try it today hehe

This is gonna be fuuun!

[thick thicket]

If they have Pyro? Unlucky.

But again. Just hope you have another gun.

[fervent kernel]

(That was my main problem with flame)

But yeah, always have a plan B

Indeed!

[thick thicket]

Exactly.

Can always use flamethrower to bait out their pyro too.

And then swap to a different guy.

And Destroy em with Karrotov nuke. 😎

[fervent kernel]

Still the top mate

[thick thicket]

First real busted combo I'd say

Along with helmet normal wall on Rooftop.

[fervent kernel]

That was just goodie(rlly goodie when it worked)

[thick thicket]

Still does.

[fervent kernel]

Ye!

But no one rlly uses it hehe

[thick thicket]

😭

[fervent kernel]

The pick rates gonna go uppie when you use it(jkjk)

[thick thicket]

People should honestly just use what they want. 🙂

[fervent kernel]

Ye

Juuust Messin around hehe

[thick thicket]

Exactlyyyyy

Flamethrower shreds titan 🤫

[fervent kernel]

Lol

🤫

[waxen pendant]

What has become of my beloved thread

[fervent kernel]

sorry hehe

[quiet sapphire]

Ayy i discovered that

[quiet sapphire]

Ill put new balance suggestion list soon

[quiet sapphire]

Theres also good spot for trucks

[fervent kernel]

SDDs min dmg 65->85

Just a lil more

[quiet sapphire]

i agree

Fire QoL change: fire damage hitboxes no longer stack their damage (effects that involve fire may need more balancing to compensate)

Albatross nerf: Mag size from 10 to 6

Self-Destruct Device nerf: decreased to 4m from 6m

Present nerf: cost 2 from 1

QoL change bear trap to trapcard so that it's hidden in the card feed

toxic bomb buff: to 1 cost from 2

rework card profaner to either draw the copied cards next round of copy from the enemy graveyard

Brasshopper buff: dmg falloff scale increase, does more dmg from further away

landmine nerf: max dmg to 120 from 140

phantom bullets buff: to 2 cost from 3

Big mag buff: to 1 cost from 2 cost

does anyone have any more suggestions?

[jolly crown]

Oks but can we also add if heartless and nuke combo you can’t heal with Dr.molebot only medic kit and experiment with just upping the card power before doing errata’s should be the last thing if a card is too good for the game

[winter palm]

dont agree with toxic bomb

[fervent kernel]

Topos healing being capped at like 100?(or I guess like a lil timer) So camping with it would be less frustrating to deal with)

[quiet sapphire]

why so

its so bad compared to sticky

[quiet sapphire]

true

[fervent kernel]

I would say that a time would be nice so that it heals a lil more then medkit, and can heal multiple ppl. But takes time and dies afterwards

[plush dragon]

Isn't half the balance the fact it can heal the enemy too

[quiet sapphire]

doesn't matter much. when you put it in a camp positions you will be 100hp difference already

[plush dragon]

I dunno my first reaction to fighting someone using it is rushing them down

Especially if I have like

The log or teleport bomb

At that point then it's maybe like a diff of 15 25 hp

[jolly crown]

I don't think Dr.molebot needs any amount of nerfs at best maybe power rating increase since the card stop things like turrent spam forcing the other player to push you otherwise you get a lot of health back. I think what Dr.molebot should do is shut down anything that is set up like turrents or mines and prevent someone from using cards for 15 second or make the power scale increase from 1 to 4

[winter palm]

everything is bad compared to sticky, why are we comparing it to sticky? lol

[fervent kernel]

Versatile quick 100 or 200dmg easy to use bomb card

[winter palm]

hm?

[fervent kernel]

• 200 is with bigger explosions

[winter palm]

yea?

[fervent kernel]

Poison grenade is meant to be areal denial but the dmg doesn't rlly makes it scary to not go in there. Making the areal denial part rlly ain't goodie. One goodie way I guess is to buff the dmg

And cuz sticky deals 100 with 1 cost, lower the cost

Woooo! Nailed it

[rain canyon]

Yea Sticky is for sure overtuned, but toxic bomb feels for sure undertuned

[quiet sapphire]

Exactly

Its a pathetic throwable for 2 cost

[winter palm]

still disagree, sticky a bit op if anything, but i think they're both fine as they are.

[winter palm]

its not just dmg, its more the aspect of blocking lines of sight.

that's the good part of the item

we cant buff predictor, phantom, and poison smoke all in the same patch because those cards indirectly buff each other when they're buffed due to their synergy

[winter palm]

7 dmg per tick isnt something to ignore imo, poison was buffed not too long ago.

[chilly flume]

Pixel Vision feels kinda useless honestly...

[dark sparrow]

I use Pixel Vision in combination with Less Accuracy and Shrinkinkg Spell. It makes it harder to hit tiny players 👀

[chilly flume]

With Shrinking Spell seems like a good combo but if it's alone it barely affects anything.

[dark sparrow]

You could also use Pixel Vision if the rival is sniping too far away 😺

[quiet sapphire]

predator doesnt need to be buffed

[quiet sapphire]

the synergy between them imo is very fair and interesting to be buffed

[winter palm]

glad we're in agreement then

[quiet sapphire]

because the counter to all that is waiting it out behind cover ...

[winter palm]

none of them need a buff.

[quiet sapphire]

i feel they do. they are noniexistent in the meta

[winter palm]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/525286676545667072/525288078923923456/wheelchair.gif?ex=65687fa5&is=65560aa5&hm=a5f4346503d52e4c7ebc12e6070622e42defbc80816ef3d3a2163e128c40dd17&

that means other cards need to be nerfed

[quiet sapphire]

also phantom is bad to put in a trio of smoke and pred

if you use pred and toxic, phantom is useless

if you use pred and phantom then smoke and toxic are super meh

[quiet sapphire]

blocking lines of sight is barely useful in the maps of fvf

most players just move around them and all you did with a 2 cost card is get 10m closer

[winter palm]

if you really think so just dont use the card.

it's what the card is meant for

[quiet sapphire]

it would be perfect for that use as a 1 cost

[winter palm]

no, whats perfect for that use as a 1 cost is smoke bomb

[quiet sapphire]

smoke bomb is a whole another tihng

you can hide in it so no self dmg and its 5x times longer

[quiet sapphire]

toxic is 5x times shorter but does a tad of dmg so can be used offencively

perfect balance for 1 cost both

and smoke/toxic usage is very skillful

would be healthy to be more meta

[quiet sapphire]

https://tenor.com/view/shh-cats-gif-10955612

bro wants there to be dead cards

[winter palm]

lol

i see it used enough, it's very much not a dead card.

[quiet sapphire]

iv never seen it used. and if ever all it did was about 15 dmg

for a 2 cost card...

[quiet sapphire]

in somebody's deck...? that's just bad deckbuilding

[winter palm]

that's almost an hp down, same cost and hp down doesnt zone or deny vision.

[quiet sapphire]

hp down is -50, It is a no-effort card, and it affects instantly both players. It can't ever backfire on you.

[winter palm]

coulda sworn it was nerfed from 50

now i gotta open the game to check bc i usually cant rely on the wiki

[quiet sapphire]

also the -health health down does cannot be healed back

while toxic dmg can be

[winter palm]

counterpoint to this, after taking a bit of dmg and healing effectively still heals any the "damage"

[quiet sapphire]

ye its -38 now

still miles above toxic bomb

[quiet sapphire]

what?

[winter palm]

not sure what the tickrate is but im pretty sure a few seconds and its the same dmg.

im going to check actual dps rn

[quiet sapphire]

i also remember when it did no dmg because of a bug sometimes

when it directhitted

and also when is the last time you saw phantom?

litterally a dead card

and pairing it up with pred is coping because that is the only decent combo for phantom. which is 50% of games fucked up cus you didnt draw them both

for a god damn 3 cost 💀

the only thing id see is that phantom pred is a toxic and unfun combo to be meta

[winter palm]

so its tickrate seems to be once per second, moltov has a super fast tickrate and its disc isnt accurate is what threw me off.

also the poison seems to linger 2 seconds after exiting, so it's going to do 14 dmg at the least.

[quiet sapphire]

yeah that's all the reward you get from a good throw

14 dmg and you cant rush them or you will get dmg too.. for 2 cost

[winter palm]

you mean a bad throw. a good throw would be them in the middle of it and need to take a few seconds to get out of it.

[quiet sapphire]

test it out

[winter palm]

i did

[quiet sapphire]

if you instantly move away from a direct hit how much dmg will it be

[winter palm]

4 ticks, its going to do 28 dmg.

[quiet sapphire]

soooo the equivalent of what poison does

poison does 25dmg... for guaranteed... for both players... for no effort

[winter palm]

and this doesnt account for allot of the other factors.

[quiet sapphire]

the only other factor is that you cant rush them or you will get dmg too xd

[winter palm]

why would you rush them its a zoning tool

[quiet sapphire]

adn that you have to apply a ton of effort for the throw

[quiet sapphire]

so you just wait...

fvf maps are very open. there are no chokepoints, you can always go around

its not csgo

[winter palm]

high ground doesnt exist i guess.

[plush dragon]

id say poison has one better use than hp down

[quiet sapphire]

there is no value for zoning out

[plush dragon]

its a dot

you can use it as a tracker through walls

[quiet sapphire]

yep

[winter palm]

and you can track in the smoke bc of that

you see them they dont see you

[plush dragon]

its a halfway of predator vision and hp down

not great at either

but usable

[quiet sapphire]

for like 3 ticks

[quiet sapphire]

honestly in fvf it doesnt make much difference

[plush dragon]

except if you have the katana that is

[winter palm]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-explosion-stairs-gif-26161925

[plush dragon]

if anything makes difference in fvf its your movement

[quiet sapphire]

youp

adn toxic bomb restricts our own advancement on the enemy annoyingly

[winter palm]

high ground makes a huge difference.

[plush dragon]

you can clearly see how much someone played on how they move because in a close up fight most people who didnt play a lot

will just

fight normally

and ppl who actually played for a while will be looking like they need to go to the hospital because they just had a seizure

[quiet sapphire]

tell me one high ground that toxic bomb covers anough

it doesn't cover enough

[plush dragon]

i guess the burger

maybe

[quiet sapphire]

people will just go around

[plush dragon]

yeah

[winter palm]

if poison needs a buff, it should cover higher radius if anything.

[quiet sapphire]

sure

now we agree it needs a buff

thank god

[winter palm]

IF

[plush dragon]

it really is just mediocre smoke

[quiet sapphire]

yep

[winter palm]

id be ok with radius buff

[quiet sapphire]

one that does 28 dmg on a perfect throw and restricts your push on the enemy

[plush dragon]

honestly just use like the ninja smoke if you want to fuck someone up from a surprise

i think the card is pretty underrated

[quiet sapphire]

i use it

[plush dragon]

yeah exactly

its an on demand speedboost and fucking up someones aim

its honestly pretty good for the price

[quiet sapphire]

i just prefer cost buffs suggestions cus they are easier to implement

[winter palm]

but we're starting to have too many cheap cards, if it was a 1 cost it could easily outclass some other cards.

[quiet sapphire]

like what

[quiet sapphire]

it would be barely the same value of 1 cost poison

[quiet sapphire]

tell me one non-dead 1 cost card it would outclass

[winter palm]

it would be fine to buff but making it cheaper is the wrong approch imo.

[winter palm]

it would make decks too efficient, you'd take out a 2 cost of equal value for a 1 cost poison bomb.

[quiet sapphire]

what do you mean

nobody is using toxic and it would be barely the same value as 1 cost poison

[winter palm]

competitive decks will run whatever is most efficient for their cost.

[quiet sapphire]

i barely see poison in competetive decks

[quiet sapphire]

i can name you 17 other 1 cost cards that are still better than 1 cost toxic

[winter palm]

for instance, move slow is a 2 cost for a 25% slow, i think poison would be far more effective a slowing someones push or trying to make cover for your own push if it was 1 cost.

[quiet sapphire]

bro

move slower is -18% slow

[winter palm]

fking wiki man

[quiet sapphire]

its kinda bad if not stacked

i dont use it even in my sable deck

[winter palm]

still

buff the radius not the cost.

that's it on my opinion

[quiet sapphire]

sorry i counted again

there are 21 [1-cost] cards that are better than 1 cost toxic

[winter palm]

that all depends on what your deck is trying to do jani

if all you want is damage and value, yes theres going to be allot of better choices for that

[quiet sapphire]

im just reaallly don't get ¨the slowing enemies' push or make a cover for own push with toxic¨

[winter palm]

what do you think smokes are disigned for?

thats my question

[quiet sapphire]

if for zoning out aits sucks in fvf

cus maps are small, movement cards are meta and there are no choke points

[quiet sapphire]

also for rushing in but you cant rush with toxic 💀

[quiet sapphire]

bro i like the 1 cost smoke we have

i like that card

you make cover so that you can rush trough it or you smoke yourself and pred to beam and be in cover

but toxic cant do any of that

[winter palm]

rooftop, theatre, subway, and island have all prominent high ground or chokes that are great uses for smokes, idk about the map argument

[quiet sapphire]

because of small map size thay are all easy and quick to go around

[winter palm]

go around sure but it denies high ground still wich is very impactful imo

[quiet sapphire]

well im annoyed it denies it from you too

so pretty minimal value

[winter palm]

it would be to put you on even playing field as oppose to a disadvantages position

wouldnt call that minimal

can we just agree on the radius buff, i got other things i want to do than talk about this all day haha

[quiet sapphire]

dunno, enemy just waits it out behind the cloud or moves to different high ground

[quiet sapphire]

we can

i just see it as. In rushing playstyle, it's bad because it kills your rush after hitting the enemy. And in long fight style its useless cus of long travel time and people just waiting it out

[winter palm]

i understand that you want more options for sable to push since your a sable main

[quiet sapphire]

not really. I still would not use it in Sable Deck if it was 1 cost

id use it in a Stevie deck with pred vision and smoke as a back up combo

[quiet sapphire]

but it did infuriate me when i tried it and got dmg by it

[winter palm]

tick dmg is more valuable on opponents since sable sword brings them down to 15 hp with 3 swings

[quiet sapphire]

did you know that poison dmg cant finish off anyone

[winter palm]

well yea you dont use it as a finisher

[quiet sapphire]

btw this discussion made me realize that health down is kinda bad now

switch to small mag feels great

[fervent kernel]

Ooooh never thought about that

[waxen pendant]

This thread has gotten so wild haha

Also going to have to agree with Ruki 🙂

Though I do think poison cards need to have some more consistent mechanics in terms of stacking damage and prolonging with other sources etc.

That being said, my view on toxic bomb becoming a 1 pt card is probably still the same as the initial post.

Also I find it amusing how much stuff has changed and become quite similar to that post. :))

[thick thicket]

🔪

[waxen pendant]

💜

[winter palm]

Jacob dont threaten the mods >:(

https://tenor.com/view/rule1-dominic-one-million-dollars-mod-abuse-gif-20706263

[thick thicket]

🔪

[waxen pendant]

fire damage still does 9,999,999 damage per second i see

[quiet sapphire]

yeah

and a 0 cost nuke pretty much guarantees a kill on a throw

[winter palm]

really need to fix how hitboxs stack on fire dmg

[quiet sapphire]

Ye

[waxen pendant]

yeah, was very surprised to see its still a thing

[winter palm]

well when I called it out before, one of the devs actually told me it was intentional, which is bad design imo but maybe we can convince them to change it if we haven't already.

[waxen pendant]

:/

god i hope its not intentional

[winter palm]

it was

thats why the dmg on the flameflower was so low bc it was inteded to stack

it just needs to be removed and dmg rebalanced to compensate

[waxen pendant]

yeah, definitely would prefer it changed so fire doesnt randomly insta kill you

[quiet sapphire]

I agree, fire is too wonky

[quiet sapphire]

what are you guyses feeling on invis hand?

should it be nerfed and have a timer?

like 30secs

[winter palm]

its fine, pretty weak without Garbage day imo.

[fervent kernel]

Interesting stuffie

[winter palm]

if we wanted to buff it, maybe make it randomize the order of cards in your hand.

[fervent kernel]

That might be too good

[quiet sapphire]

i dont think is needs a buff at all

waa thinking it could use a nerf

[winter palm]

i dont think it needs a buff ether, im saying if we're to change it.

if anything a buff

[thick thicket]

🔪

[winter palm]

but rather have it stay how it is.

it relys on combos to be any good

[thick thicket]

no

[winter palm]

timer would be ok but not needed.

[thick thicket]

Nerf everything grrr 😠

[quiet sapphire]

ye but those combos annihilate enemy card usage

[winter palm]

nerfs stevie make his gun 1 bullet

[winter palm]

but they dont. you can still use cards.

[quiet sapphire]

nerf stevie make golden gun break after 20 shots

gold is fragile

[winter palm]

true

make game realistic

[quiet sapphire]

ye but its hard to use cards

also potato invis hand is free 100 dmg

[winter palm]

in fact have it backfire and kill stevie

not when you have no hand

https://tenor.com/view/smart-thinking-thoughts-think-ponder-gif-7713620

[winter palm]

Join call grrrr

😡

[thick thicket]

whats in it for me?

[winter palm]

i'll give the homie a kiss

[thick thicket]

No money? ☹️

[quiet sapphire]

Yoo peepoo

Whats yours opinion on silence

Is it too underwhelming?

[plush dragon]

I think its alright

Maybe like 1s buff if anything

But I don't think it's needed

You can use it to secure kills on ppl if they are gonna heal

[quiet sapphire]

Ye i think 1 s buff

I think its not long enough for 2 cost card

[winter palm]

could easily become useless if ever nerfed too hard but i think it's on the strong side.

[fervent kernel]

Goodie in rush plays(like rlly goodie)

[quiet sapphire]

New buff idea

Make it that counter actually counters Kalas arrpegio proggress too

[quiet sapphire]

Fire QoL change: fire damage hitboxes no longer stack their damage (effects that involve fire may need more balancing to compensate)

Albatross nerf: Mag size from 10 to 6

Present nerf: cost 2 from 1

QoL change bear trap to trapcard so that it's hidden in the card feed

rework card profaner some how or nerf it to 5 cost

phantom bullets buff: 1 second more

Big mag buff: to 1 cost from 2 cost

Counter card buff: should counter Marge arrpegio progress

Nuke nerf: to 1 cost

Katana card buff: to 2 cost

Flamethrower nerf: should not dmg through walls

invisibility buff to 2 cost

Whatcha think?

[fervent kernel]

What about potato 1 cost again?

[unreal ruin]

Only if potato is changed to have a minimum timer. Two players with an empy hand spamming E should be able to toss the potato forever

[fervent kernel]

Isn't the whole point you can boom or they can boom? And most of its combos except for invisi hand garbage day were nerfed?

[unreal ruin]

Imo an ideal hot potato is one where both teams have to split focus on tossing potatoes and shooting eachother. Add some real chaos to the base gameplay

current hot potato has a problem where it's super OP against mid-tier buff / debuff heavy gameplay, while being fairly weak against bff gameplay where rounds end in < 8 seconds anyway.

It's like a big wall players hit where suddenly their deck feels worthless against a super cheesy strategy.

at least with guns it's like "damn I better ge me some guns too" lol

[quiet sapphire]

Imo its fine cus they will have to burn their whole hand for that

And nuke, tinman, parley, thicc skin, ice, reroll, all deny all potato value

[quiet sapphire]

Dunno, invis hand potato and garb potato are still easy 100 dmg

[winter palm]

reroll denies the whole combo and gives them a massive hand

[dark sparrow]

Reroll denies the combo. However, all rerolled cards are invisible (?) for the round where Invisible Hand is in effect. You can see the cards next round

[jolly crown]

if the Card Profaner get this rework it becomes basically unuseable because then someone would need to dealt with the rng on whatever the hell the opponent plays. The card becomes so inconstant compared to now where if someone gets first round they can make it get the same cards but later rounds it becomes a card that might give you want you needs or not it's a strong card but it should be a power level changed to maybe 5 because how good it is right now. A good meta is one where every card is able to be used allowing for creative decks but this rework would most likely make the card unusable because no one builds around their opponent deck because the card Profaner user can't choose what is in the opponent only guess

[quiet sapphire]

Ok, maybe that rework would make it too unreliable, i just wanted to keep it in the graveyard thematic

If any card should be 5 cost maybe its profaner, but again that nerf wouldnt fix much on the frustration of replaying game winning combos just because you drew profaner in the first rounds

[jolly crown]

I totally get that someone running nuke and kakaorrt in the first round kills you wiht it and doing it again or Ak and poison when you don't have a disarm, swap or bombs on you. The power level for more stronger cards should be higher than 4 to make it harder and require more deck building skills while still allowing the cards to still be useable without any number or reworks needed

[craggy cairn]

Honestly I think Sticky bomb and regular bomb should have thier damage values switched around

It would make bomb have more of a reason to get played more often

[quiet sapphire]

not a bad suggestion

[dark sparrow]

The risk of it is making Bomb Belt more powerful that way. We don't have Sticky Bomb Belt x.x

[quiet sapphire]

are bomb belt bomb dmg the same as normal bomb?

[dark sparrow]

Yeah, it is. The damage of the bombs in bomb belts are the same as the bombs

[quiet sapphire]

huh

[craggy cairn]

Oh

[rose dagger]

Bomb as a card is very underwhelming

For one point more i get bomb belt

I think this card should just be deleted

OR

Make bomb stronger and keep the bomb belt damage the same

[plush dragon]

make bomb 0 cost

[rose dagger]

I think we have enough 0 cost cards by now

[plush dragon]

fair

[quiet sapphire]

we have enough 0 costs yea

yoo peepoo

what about making invisibility 2 cost

its trash as a 3 cost

[thick thicket]

Would still make it trash

https://tenor.com/view/milly-silly-cat-silly-silly-milly-happy-cat-gif-13373795408567336440

[quiet sapphire]

a tad less of a at least

honestly invisibility could be 1 cost

Fire QoL change: fire damage hitboxes no longer stack their damage (effects that involve fire may need more balancing to compensate)

Albatross nerf: Mag size from 10 to 6 and firerate nerf to match its animations

Present nerf: cost 2 from 1

QoL change bear trap to trapcard so that it's hidden in the card feed

rework card profaner somehow or nerf it to 5 cost

phantom bullets buff: 1 second more

Big mag buff: to 1 cost from 2 cost

Counter card buff: should counter Marge arrpegio progress and remove rarity boarder on trapcards

Nuke nerf: to 1 cost

Katana card buff: to 2 cost

Flamethrower nerf: should not dmg through walls

invisibility buff: to 2 cost from 3 cost

Sticky bomb nerf: to 2 cost from 1 cost 🔥 discussing

this is my updated suggestions

[quiet sapphire]

do you think counter card could be 2 cost?

or would it be too popular as 2 cost

[thick thicket]

Remove the orange border.

And it's fine at 3

Or keep it and make it 2.

[quiet sapphire]

oh yeah

[rain canyon]

I mean bomb is more damaging than bomb belt bombs if you have your cards upgraded. Could be a slightly bigger difference but I don’t think it’s bad.

Think we’ve just been spoiled by having one cost cards like sticky which are too good

[quiet sapphire]

but we looove sticky

But not our Sticky, Couldn't be Precious Sticky! Winning whole rounds! And it gets to be a 1 cost? What a sick joke!

honestly ill put that in

Sticky to 2 cost 🔥

[cedar compass]

One thing with Albatross; have we considered slowing down the fire rate to match the sounds/animations?

I also agree with the mag-size reduction

[winter palm]

disagree with sticky nerf

[quiet sapphire]

whyyy

justice for regular bomb

[winter palm]

the diffrence between a 1 and a 2 cost is huge, and sticky isnt always grantee'd value

allot of other 2 costs are

i could argue that bullet time is a better card than sticky

[quiet sapphire]

pffff i disargee bullet time could be 100 dmg value

while sticky is just get close and sticky the enemy

[winter palm]

early during games realase sticky was S teir, but since it's been nerfed awhile back and since allot of cards that bullet time synergizes with got buffed its allot better than sticky

tinman 2 cost now, frozen gun and emty mag

[quiet sapphire]

bullet time in perfect condition can be max one mag value

[winter palm]

aswell as mindblowing but i dont run that anymore.

[quiet sapphire]

the thing is that all these counter bullet time too

[quiet sapphire]

bullet time for mind blow is overrated

[winter palm]

thats what i was just saying jani

xd

[quiet sapphire]

ye

but back to stick

[winter palm]

not really, it forces you to use those cards.

[quiet sapphire]

my point is that it's boring comparing sticky and regular bomb

cus sticky is 3 times better

[winter palm]

eh

[quiet sapphire]

yeah

[winter palm]

its very compareable to a normal bomb now

[quiet sapphire]

bomb you have to stop, throw in air and shoot with weapon

sticky is 3 times better cus you can just get close and stucky the enemy

or sticky the floor for precise placement

[winter palm]

its just as easy to shoot it :|

[quiet sapphire]

thats the thing

you Have to shoot it

sticky you dont have to

[winter palm]

why would you want to wait for it to explode?

exactly, i dont think thats a good arument

[quiet sapphire]

its not about waitin, its about pushing in with energy or ninja smoke or ninja log and sticking it to enemies and not worried about it and it dealing 100dmg

[winter palm]

ive stopped running sticky btw, my decks have felt so much better since i did that.

[quiet sapphire]

the precise throwing and its stickiness makes it 3 times easier to use than regular bomb

[winter palm]

id rather just not run bombs anymore, and if it becomes a 2 cost i would have no reason to justify it.

[quiet sapphire]

im just comparing why regular bomb does less dmg and is harder to use is same cost as sticky

[winter palm]

but sure nerf it to 2 cost so i can laugh at ppl who still want to run it.

[quiet sapphire]

i just want to see justice for regular bomb

maybe just buff regular bomb dmg to 110

[winter palm]

so we buff regular bomb dmg to 85 or smtn

[quiet sapphire]

why only 85 when sticky is 100

oh because bomb belt

dammit

[winter palm]

maybe sticky should only do 100 if it actually sticks

[quiet sapphire]

it does

[winter palm]

or its dmg is halfed

[winter palm]

only if it sticks, it still does 100 if it doenst.

it just needs to be close enough

[quiet sapphire]

are we sure that regular bomb is tied to bomb belt bombs?

[thick thicket]

https://tenor.com/view/straight-faded-frr-gif-21165965

[quiet sapphire]

id kinda like that nerf

yeah it would need that fire rate nerf

ill add that

sticky is under discussion

[cedar compass]

I was testing this last night with a friend; your character model’s hand barely touches the bolt before you can refire

The gun is basically a semi-automatic sniper. This is true for a lot of animations where you can fire prior to the animation finishing (i.e. Disarm)

[quiet sapphire]

yes it can fire very fast before it actually clocking in

[craggy cairn]

I would say make nuke a one cost card and have bomb as a 0 cost

[quiet sapphire]

hmm

i guess that would be decent change of costs

but im not sure about the 0 cost thing

0 cost cards should be cards that are risky to use and can fuck up sometimes

[craggy cairn]

I don't see another way to buff bomb card

[quiet sapphire]

cards that arent easy value every time you use them

we love dice bomb cus thats how its it

its not that consistent value and can fuck you up by teleport smoke or flash

[craggy cairn]

Hm, maybe present should be 0 cost and have even more random effects that can fuck you over

that would be fun

[quiet sapphire]

well that a hard no

cus it skyrockets value when you get weapon package and disarm

[craggy cairn]

oh yeah

but I would say that present should have even more wacky effects

like low gravity laika

[cedar compass]

As “fun” as nuke can be, it certainly should be reverted to being a point costing card

[craggy cairn]

1 cost would be better

[cedar compass]

What was it before it was reduced to 0

2?

[craggy cairn]

2

[cedar compass]

Higher costing Nuke also indirectly nerfs Heartless, which I’m fine with :P

But that’s obviously a subjective opinion

[craggy cairn]

they really should just have heartless' heart reappear when you use nuke even if there are counters to the combo

[thick thicket]

Heartless sucks now cause of fire.

[cedar compass]

Remind me of the interaction?

[thick thicket]

They die instantly.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Well died is the right term.

[winter palm]

fire in general sucks, where's the fire fix Brainwash

[cedar compass]

Well if the heart takes any damage you die, so I don’t see the issue with fire and heartless?

[winter palm]

jk jk, ik fixing something like that will take time

banned

[craggy cairn]

I hope Carritov will still be strong after it gets fixed

[winter palm]

you're not allowed to discuss spoilers on the server my dude :p

if he even comes

[thick thicket]

Banned

https://tenor.com/view/my-apologies-cheese-kitty-cat-sorry-my-bad-gif-1026852287997442026

[craggy cairn]

cause it's amazing at countering cards like titan, iceblock, small spell, and heartless

[thick thicket]

Fire shreds it all.

🫡

[craggy cairn]

Yup

[winter palm]

fire is wierd

fix it

[craggy cairn]

and it's great against rubber bullet stacks from margerita

[thick thicket]

Nuh uhhhh

[craggy cairn]

is the punch r bad now or something?

[thick thicket]

Always has been.

[craggy cairn]

why is it bad exactly?

[winter palm]

it isnt

[thick thicket]

Use it then!

[winter palm]

the other weapons are just better

[craggy cairn]

I just use it instead of lakia cause I always miss my shots with it

and I use moose's double jump to great advantage with it

[winter palm]

liaka better, its cheaper too

[craggy cairn]

I miss my shots with laika

albatross is no problem

but yeah albatross should have a clip size and fire rate nerf

[winter palm]

need i say?

ikill sssue

[craggy cairn]

but what about golden Biora? cause no one uses it outside of stevie

[craggy cairn]

It does not need 10 shots bro

[winter palm]

no ur right with that, nerf albitross mag size

[thick thicket]

Damage nerf to no scoping pls

[craggy cairn]

nah

[winter palm]

its RAF is fine just 10 shots is too forgiving

half it or make it 6 at least

[thick thicket]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/957106439413956669/1132811292692992231/togif.gif

[thick thicket]

I want it at 5.

😭

[craggy cairn]

Would it be bad to lower golden biora's cost to 1?

[winter palm]

probably not

[craggy cairn]

I would buff brasshopper's damage falloff to compensate maybe

[winter palm]

tho DJ might beam ppl with it

so idk

[craggy cairn]

hm, maybe not too much of a buff then