#Caprice is outdated: T13 & Customizations Update

71 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

naive dune
#

Numbers post found here: #1075101511081795715 message

You're still giving us 5 coins per day and insufficient reward track coin values while an endless flood of high tier BPs rolls out every month that you couldn't possibly keep up with. God help the poor souls who don't have Royal Merchant perks who get even less.

Is it really too much to ask coin gains be doubled? It's literally impossible to even get close to buying all the pack BPs if you double the coins right now, so the whales can still have their feeding frenzy.

Good luck even buying any fun things like clothes and wallpapers when you can't even buy all of the T5 BPs you needed for ascension that showed up in one event. What's T13 going to cost? 500 coins? The event is making itself irrelevant because the rewards just keep losing relative value every tier that comes out.

lavish sleet
#

Can I add to this that the assigned loot slots are also outdated, no reason to limit right upper slot to T5 when there's almost no new additional T5 blueprints coming

My idea would be to have an upper tier and lower tier slot like rn but try and balance it with how the packs are released, current packs "low" tier bp is at T8 currently so while that might be a tad too high I'd love to see the limit raised to T7 and maybe T8 when T13 comes around

naive dune
#

That's a good suggestion. I've got a massive backlog of T5-6 myself since I haven't played the game nearly long enough to get to that point, but having it check if there's nothing to offer in that slot and bumping it up to a higher bracket would be helpful, though I don't know how people would feel about random other rewards like ascension shards popping up in that slot if you have everything like it currently does.

naive dune
#

It's that time of the month again folks. Let's get more updoots on this because Caprice really doesn't give enough coins to get stuff with.

tall saffron
#

If you don’t buy packs then you will never get all of the bps anyway I have been working towards all of the bps from before t11 I have bought every t11 and t12 pack available I do agree that we could use more but as there is a 6 month delay f2p will never get all of them

naive dune
#

It's worse if you factor in 'fun' purchases like customizations.

#

And of course, there's still rewards for the whales because they can turn coins into stacks of ascension shards and other rewards for the emptied out slots.

#

Anyone not outright insulted by the daily 5 coins per day is odd to me because it implies they like not ever affording even the lower tier BPs almost entirely.

frozen spoke
# naive dune **Numbers post found here:** https://discord.com/channels/482292231290617866/107...

After two years of play I have yet to see items repeat constantly in the upper right slot.
I also find that between the daily allotments and the prizes in the completion line, I buy two items per KC, almost every KC. If I don't, it's because I didn't want the items.
The game is designed to earn money through micro transactions. It's freaking generous in providing ways to go F2P. Far better than most other games I've played in the past. If you don't want to buy coins, you'll have to be more patient.

floral estuary
prisma reef
#

To be fair something like doubling the daily tokens from 5-10 doesn't sound bad at all considering that u basically get maybe 20-30 extra tokens per month which is like nothing at all

naive dune
# frozen spoke After two years of play I have yet to see items repeat constantly in the upper r...

After 1 year and some change of play I need 6500 antique coins to buy every remaining T5-T6 BP since I last updated the list - there's more of them now. I can understand wanting to let the mega pack whales dominate the market with their fancy new best in slot p2w BPS that would take multiple Caprices and 6 months of wait or more depending on luck to buy yourself with coins.. What I can't understand is why Kabam feels the need to grind their boot on the vast majority of the playerbase who already pays for RM but is barely allowed to even make use of the shop that is the entire point of the Caprice event who are never going to buy a mega pack anyway.

outer star
#

This and also a free reset each day of the event.
I spend more times refreshing the store than anything else. I just want to complete my swords line and i never get anything from antique store.
It's the worst event by far. Most of BPS not worth that much if you try to go for legendaries and even worst for F2P because most of the time the game flood you with wands and guns you don't have.

calm fern
#

Free reset would be

naive dune
#

Honestly yeah, one daily reset option for free, or even the ability to rest just one of the options, would be nice.

tacit echo
#

You're not expected to get ALL of them without spending real money. That was never the intention of the system. It's just a way for that old content to get recycled into the system as old players quit and new ones join without having to constantly throw BUY THIS PACK NOW!!! advertisements at us constantly for old packs. I mostly use it for stuff that I want for vanity items or the few items like patchleather gloves that are used for tons of different heroes, so I'm not dependent on the market for them. Not saying I'm a fan of the event structure itself, but the rewards system is generous on Kabam's part by mobile gaming standards.

tall saffron
#

I still think a free reset would be good

naive dune
# tacit echo You're not expected to get ALL of them without spending real money. That was nev...

TBH I don't think you would get all of the new monthly items even if they doubled all coin sources right now. But no, I'm going to have to disagree with you on it being generous. The fact this game's monetization is slightly better than the rampant trash cash grab mobile game monetization all around isn't really a valid excuse. The game still has monetization built in such a way you could absolutely throw tens of thousands of dollars into it and still not have what you want. They know what they did when they built the game to psychologically punish you every day withholding rewards and progress because you're not pulling out your credit card. They lose zero dollars while giving royal merchants and the few F2P people left more to do by increasing access to old no longer relevant blueprints. They absolutely have the data to back me up that this would only affect a segment of the playerbase that will never buy a mega pack anyway.

#

And just to emphasize why it's silly to pretend it's not good for the game if players get antique shop BPs easier let's recap:

To get an item in Caprice you have to:
-Wait for the whales to buy a mega pack full of useless item bloat to charge more since Kabam refuses to offer just the exact item you want
-Wait for whales to buy super secret mega whale pack by buying everything else first for mega whale BPs
--Wait for at least 6 months while the whales mine every scrap of gem value out of the item at max ascension and flood the market
Wait for Caprice to decide to actually display the item after no less than 6 months but likely more
-Spend more than 1 event worth of saved antique coins or buy them to get the one item for just barely less than the awful mega pack overpricing.
-If above fails you might not see it for a year, if ever again, and you can't even have a free daily reroll because just being a RM mean you're not valued as a player.

I'm not trying to sound harsh or like I have a grudge against Kabam, but I have to make it really apparent anyone arguing against this is on serious copium.

So no, I don't think it's asking too much to say we need more coins. And no, it's not generous as it is. It's about to get even worse than it already is with T13 coming. A crafting game should have more chances for blueprints; it's not like it has any influence on Kabam's bottom line or the whales dominating the market getting things at best 6+ months later.

tacit echo
#

Calling people who disagree with you crazy is not how you win a debate. Just because you, personally, don’t feel it’s fair to not have everything unlocked in the game for every player doesn’t mean that everyone agrees with you or that you’re right. I wish all games were like ye olden days where you bought a game and you had everything and there were no pay to win advantages. With the amount of support we get on this game, if we still expected that along with only a single payment, it would probably be a $50 or $60 game and no one would play even though probably the majority of people on this discord have spent more than that over their “career” here.

You act like your gameplay is severely hindered by not having all of these blueprints. In what way? All I’ve seen you complain about is the people that pay boat loads of money to Kabam get a tiny bit more gold (and gems on lucky crafts) than the rest of us. Them paying $20 each for someone to mock up some art assets for a week and change a stat block is what keeps this game running though, like it or not (saying as someone that’s never bought a pack). In the three years I’ve been playing this game, I’ve never felt like I just didn’t have a way to make enough gold to keep progressing. I’m not counting investments because even the whales don’t have capped invests in everything because that’s the gold sink by design.

As far as gems, I’ve also always had enough or felt I could save enough in a reasonable time because you get enough throughout the month (literally thousands more a month now than when I first started playing AND I spent gems rerolling hero skills then). I just don’t splurge gems on stupid stuff like rushing quests or swapping gems for gold via the market.

So again, what is not having every single pack doing to significantly impact your game experience? I think they could be a bit more generous on caprice like the free reroll, but that’s not what you’re “demanding.”

granite warren
# tacit echo Calling people who disagree with you crazy is not how you win a debate. Just bec...

so since you can make gold, gems and progress without those bps, it is just fine
what if we halved king's caprice rewards? pretty sure you can still make loads of gold of gems and use the same argument

I think the point here was closing the gap
OP was stating a fact and why should be changed: we can't ever catch up and it's getting worse and worse

I can understand dismissal if your experience is enjoyable as it is, and it follows that kabam should make money and whatnot
but even if you don't actually care, you don't want to be playing a game that ends up with these massive gaps here and there
that's just p2w in other words, or in my own: a shit game

tacit echo
#

The game existed for a year and a half or two years with absolutely no way for me to get those special blueprints, before kings caprice existed, so I get it. It sucks that some people with more money to burn get an in game advantage. “Massive gaps” is an overstatement though.

And again, I said I think it would be good if Kabam gave us a little more bang for our buck in KC, whether through a few more coins or free daily reroll. What I said was an excessive demand is that all free to play players should have access to ALL paid blueprints 6 months or so after they release. Sure I’d like that. I’d never use ALL of those blueprints, which is part of why I’m not super offended that we can’t get every single one. The argument that that would NOT affect Kabam’s bottom line though is frankly untrue. And, again personally, I would rather have more money invested into the game and have more “fun” content created like new classes or new events like ToT or new entire tiers of gear and questing than I would like to have some extra blueprints that give only a little bit extra gold. Even among the paid blueprints, not all of them sell for significantly more than the non-paid stuff, especially if you factor in opulent items that sell for even more than the paid ones. If you were arguing about gun and wand prices compared to bow and staff, that would be a completely different argument, both in terms of player cost and player benefit. These seasonal packs aren’t the game changers y’all are making them out to be.

naive dune
# tacit echo Calling people who disagree with you crazy is not how you win a debate. Just bec...

You see you're just proving my point. You're coping telling yourself it's fine as it is. I'm not approaching this expecting to win you over. You've made your decision and it's not on me to dig you out of that hole. But I do have to present a viewpoint that makes it less likely that others settle into your accepting outlook. The only way to do that is to push back to convince others to support my side and create pressure on the developer to make things better than they currently are. I'm not sure where you came to the conclusion I said I should get to unlock everything in the game as a non pack buyer, but this is an untrue statement. I have only ever implied that right now the vast majority of monthly new plans cannot ever be unlocked and that it makes a game about crafting less interesting and that it has no effect on the pack buying players making them more available through antique coins.

My gameplay is hindered by the mechanic to obtain old outdated blueprints being severely bottlenecked. It gives me less opportunities to have something to master in my blueprint list. It's less ticks in a personal to-do list that makes the game more engaging. You have incorrectly assessed that I am upset the whales make piles of gold and gems buying the new best p2w BPs, but my entire point was listing out all the benefits the pack buyers get that effectively devalue later increasing access to the outdated BPs for non-pack buyers via antique coins.

#

I don't care about any other player's progression advantage in a non-pvp game and never have. Without packs all you get is 1 Opulent BP and maybe 1 or 2 old BPs per month to give you something to do, while the whales have staggeringly higher numbers of things to occupy their time. I guess there's pass things that might be twice a year to get some more BPs as well, though it could be said that half of that you need to pay for in a sense too.

I cannot stress enough that the part of the playerbase that buys packs will not stop buying packs if the players who will never buy packs get more ability to buy outdated BPS than they do now. Your point on gems doesn't really apply to anything I wrote, it's just another perk for the whales from buying their packs that reinforces my point about it being a zero loss situation for non pack buyers being able to get more of the many BPs that release each month than the tiny fraction they can access now. I bet antique coin sales are a tiny fraction of pack purchases to the point it's a joke in comparison. It's almost as much as just buying the pack as a whole so the entire market for that is already frontloading the sales with packs, not antique coins.

#

Just a final reminder again to stress the point. Nowhere ever have I ever once demanded non whales get to have every single BP for 'free' via coins. I have also never said I am envious of whales getting tons of gems and gold benefitting from pack buying. I just want more things to do and for the catchup system to actually give players more options to build their BP collection instead of barely getting scraps of the total monthly new BP rollouts.

tacit echo
# naive dune You see you're just proving my point. You're coping telling yourself it's fine ...

You’ve had multiple rants about how "whales dominate the market."

You are the one that brought up "the whales mine every scrap of gem value out of the item."

You're complaining that you don't have blueprints to master. First off, every game has a cap on what you can accomplish until new stuff comes out. Second, there's other stuff to do with crafting than just that. Have you filled up your collection book with every piece you have available? If so, you've got a lot more time to dedicate to a phone game than I do, since you said you don't spend money on it. The same argument could be made for hero progression though. At some point, you’ve got the best heroes with the best gear in the game, and they’re stuck there for a while.

You don't need to pay for the event pass stuff. You buy it with gems, and a relatively small amount of them at that. You can make those gems just from the events each month during the month that the event pass is open.

"It's literally impossible to even get close to buying all the pack BPs if you double the coins right now, so the whales can still have their feeding frenzy."

Maybe I misinterpreted your initial statement about it being impossible to get all the blueprints. I'll give you that, but you should explain your point better instead of, again, going back to personal insults. Telling me that I'm "coping" is implying that I have something that is upsetting me or causing me to grieve, and "copium" implies that it's bad enough to require hardcore drugs ("coping with opium"). I'm a little crazy, but not in that way. You, however, seem to be getting very upset at these little pixels and the fact that you can't have all of them.

#

Again, I think more benefits from the KC rewards tree would be a good thing, particularly for new players, but people also naturally want free stuff, so I’m biased. What would actually be useful instead of you ranting about the same stuff over and over again in abstract terms would be if you went through all of the blueprints and their KC costs (I'm sure it's on a spreadsheet somewhere on this server) and figured out how long it would take to buy everything on that list using standard RM rewards for KC and not counting the other antique coins we get from other events for simplicity. Or the reverse, if non-pack buyers are in the hole every month, figure out by how much. Once you have concrete numbers, it's much easier to argue that Kabam should increase the rewards and by how much.

tight silo
#

At some point you’ll get all bps & gonna sit on pile of tokens you have nothing to buy with. At least I do.

#

I think that cost of resets should be lower in proportion to 5 free tokens. 25 is too much when you fishing for AS or cute customization

tight silo
naive dune
# tacit echo Again, I think more benefits from the KC rewards tree would be a good thing, par...

Alright, I finally had time to pull together a full year worth of packs data and it's actually worse than I thought. I did something like 2-20-2022 -> 2-20-2023 or something.

1 year of packs = 26260 antique tokens (1270$)
415 tokens per event/4980 per year (240$ free)
Per month, it requires an average of 2188 antique tokens to buy every pack item on average.
Average buying power: 18.9% - roughly one T12 BP would mean basically if you are aiming for high end stuff only, in a month you can only get one T12 BP out of all the packs that drop.

But of course, T13 will change things. Currently it is assumed that T13 will be 400 antique tokens. You will still be able to get 1 T13 BP from the collective packs that drop each month, there will just be far less leftover points to save for anything else. There's a chance the mid tier BPs could go higher range too, which may raise antique token costs further.

Accounting only for T13 BPs, the cost in Antique tokens per year to buy everything increases by 2850, or just under 7 more events worth of tokens. This increases the yearly total antique tokens to 29110 if the typical mid tier secondary pack BP stays around T5-T8. The monthly average increases by 237 , to a total of 2425 anttique tokens.

With this new value, your average buying power per event is now 17.1%

I feel that with these numbers, I have shown that King's Caprice really can use a boost. At the rate packs come out, my unserious suggestion they just double tokens seems even less impactful. There's likely to be 2-3+ packs per month already, and going from one T12 to 2 T12s while still leaving all secondary BPS and remaining T12s still leaves a huge amount of never obtainable stuff.

#

Raw data: T5 120 x8
T6 140 x11
T7 160 x9
T8 180 x4
T9 200 x1
T10 250 x1
T11 300 x4
T12 350 x57

#

Note that a bit of this still contained T11 BPs. This also makes no consideration of appearance and shop customizations. If it did this would look significantly worse.

naive dune
#

Caprice is outdated: Now with numbers

#

Bonus: F2P Edition
320 antique tokens per event
Average buying power: 14.6%
Average buying power T13: 13.1%

#

**Suggestions to remedy event:
**
Increase reward track values. This gives extra value to all players, but adds value to having Royal Merchant as well.

Increase daily tokens to 20 or 25. Below are the values of the additional resulting tokens per month:
105-140 grants 4.7% - 6.3% buying power
105-140 grants 4.3% - 5.7% T13 buying power

Add a Flash Quest that rewards Antique Tokens similarly to Research scrolls and Ascension Shards

Add Antique Tokens into other events, Content Passes, Chests, Grab Bags, etc.
-Chests can drop antique tokens in place of BP drops if all BPs have been obtained in similar numbers to Research Scrolls and Ascension Shards(60 from Molten Chest)
Molten Chest example:
60 = 2.7% buying power
60 = 2.4% T13 buying power

One free daily reroll to help players find the BP they want as the unobtained pool becomes ever more bottomless.

tacit echo
# naive dune Alright, I finally had time to pull together a full year worth of packs data and...

Awesome work man! I knew we were in the hole each month/year, but I didn’t know it was that drastic. For some reason, I thought RM was already getting double what F2P gets. I want to say DI gives a few tokens per month as well, but I won’t swear to it and it certainly won’t change your percentages much.

If nothing else, I think they should double the amount RMs get (I’m F2P if it matters) via the RM side of the rewards tree (830 total) and give everyone the free reroll (25 token per day value, so we’re up to 1,005 tokens per month for RM and about 495 for F2P). That would get RMs to almost half of the token value of packs per year before T13 changes are factored in (assuming T13 happens).

I think doing it this way would at least remove most of the argument that Kabam would be losing much money on it since we’ll all still be so far in the negative. The problem is that they (I assume) have to justify changes like this to the finance people. Those finance people are going to look at a worst case scenario and assume each token handed out is a dollar lost by the whales who will (probably not, but for argument’s sake) choose not to buy X amount of packs per year so they can use their tokens to buy them instead. But if you’re only giving these benefits to paying subscribers, they can maybe sell it as a wash if it helps push more people to sign up for RM.

golden oxide
#

Not to forget whales buy packs so they dont have to wait 6 months to get a chance of buying it thats also a big factor packs do well and by the time they hit the KC store their bigger and better counterpart releases Example is Hotshotrifle released to kc store last year in december same time as Giftwrap rifle

naive dune
#

I'm happy to make the email to Marketing easier for Kabam

Reasons Pack sales will see negligible impact from increased Antique Coins:

Pack Benefits:
Buyers get at least 6 months of exclusivity. Due to the randomized nature of King's Caprice, this wait time could be even longer for players. This period ensures that the best way to get newly offered blueprints will always be packs as these players see much higher returns due to early market exclusivity monopolizing on their blueprint. The most cost effective method if you want everything is also still via buying packs directly.

Reasons increased Antique coins benefit Shop Titans

Increased Royal Merchant incentive
Increased Player retention by giving more things to do to Royal Merchants and F2P users
Greater Market activity as old blueprints become available to more players who then use the market to sell or obtain the item for the collection book.
This segment of the playerbase largely does not buy Packs already but needs to be retained for Royal Merchant sales as well as keeping the game and guild economy strong to retain players.

tired crystal
#

Thanks for running the numbers. If I understand what you're saying, coins account for less than 20% of total coin value of pack BPs that are released every month? That's far worse than I thought. I knew it was under, but not that far under. I anticipated around 50% (assuming RM). What's worse about this (if it's not bad already) is that it means even if you don't care about T11+ and really just want older BPs for ascension line relief...the pool gets more and more polluted each month with stuff you can't buy. That means long before you pick up every BP under T10 (which, even there, I'm not sure it's possible), you'll get so many T12s in a row, you'll likely NEVER finish.

I'm in full support of coins doubling and then also changing the quadrants.
Lower right should be BPs 1-4 (until exhausted)
Upper right should be BPs 5-8 (until exhausted)
Lower left should be BPs 9-13 (until exhausted)
Upper left should be any BP

tall saffron
tired crystal
tall saffron
#

I would be happy with that one for character and 1 for decorations for the shop

#

Also it should be 2-7 8-10 11-13

#

That should be a better combination of tiers

tired crystal
#

maybe 1-5, 6-9, 10-13, anything

tall saffron
#

There isn’t a t1 bp

tired crystal
#

there's no t1 pack bp?

tall saffron
#

Nope

tired crystal
#

huh, TIL

#

2-5, 6-9, 10-13, ANY! 😄

tall saffron
#

T2 kunai I believe is one of the only t2s as well

tired crystal
#

oh ya?

#

ok...nevermind

#

do yours

tall saffron
#

Kunai is actually the only t2

naive dune
# tall saffron What about cosmetics

I...have no idea how I would tally up cosmetics. I don't know the pricing structure even if I decided to manually go through that entire year of packs again to tally them. However, you can assume that it would make the overall buying power % drop a fair margin further.

naive dune
tired crystal
cerulean moss
#

Given T13 is about to land please add more coins

boreal drift
tired crystal
#

Well shoot...actually, even without T13, we need more coins, honestly

#

so tldr - KC too stingy - fix plz!

naive dune
#

Accounting only for T13 BPs, the cost in Antique tokens per year to buy everything increases by 2850, or just under 7 more events worth of tokens. This increases the yearly total antique tokens to 29110 if the typical mid tier secondary pack BP stays around T5-T8. The monthly average increases by 237 , to a total of 2425 antique tokens.

With this new value, your average buying power per event is now 17.1%

ionic hill
#

Why not try and make it like tot and make the event have different difficulties you can choose as a guild for better rewards aka more coins

tall saffron
#

That could very well work

naive dune
#

Kabam did me the stupendous favor of calculating an average cost of shop decorations and avatar customizations in antique shop prices, so now I have an exuse to use their average numbers to provide more accurate total purchase power data for King's Caprice since manually finding costs for 108 different things would be near impossible! If you don't like my math, I can point at Kabam and eschew any and all responsibility!

Raw Data
Avatar: 28 pts
Furniture: 42 pts
Decorations: 54
Customizations: 54

In the same year period ending with the Jurassic pack/superior pack we have
1512 antique coins in avatar customizations
2268 antique coins in shop decorations
3780 additional antique tokens per year to purchase everything, or 315 per month

Let's add these values to our existing data for fully accurate 1 year averages*
*Unless average midtier pack BP level goes up
415 tokens per event for RM
320 tokens per event for F2P

T12
Yearly Total: 30040
Monthly Total: 2503
RM & F2P
Average Buying Power: 16.5%
Average Buying Power: 12.7%

T13
Yearly Total: 32890
Monthly Total: 2740
RM & F2P
Average Buying Power: 15.1%
Average Buying Power: 11.6%

The numbers looking forward to T13 are looking worse than ever, and I would like your continued support enticing Kabam to address the growing issue of the game being filled with far more content than the majority of the non pack buying playerbase will ever buy for access. I'll be back at a later time with updated impact percentages for the various suggested fixes.