Eliminate gold minimums and maximums in the market

[raven eagle]

You should be able to list any item for 1 gold or max gold. Why limit what the market can do? If someone wants to buy my T1 armguards for 1G, so be it. If the concern is botting, let's try this and start pulling analytics - it might provide easier ways to detect botting whereas it might be lost in golem transfers today 🙂

[pure lagoon]

Sure, let's screw people over when they spam buy components or fodder

we had mushrooms at like 1G back in the day, not fun at all

there's 0 reason to be able to put stuff up at market for obscene gold quantities
also, would definitely be a nice ground for gold trading (casually buying 5 green t2s for 20G, totally legit transaction, nothing to see here)

[shadow arrow]

we used to have no restrictions, it fucked over new players hard

[raven eagle]

It's a lesson you learn once

[unique portal]

You could do that if you can see ALL the prices on a item and not just the lowest price.

[raven eagle]

There's absolutely a reason - to not have to use gems for something that is acceptable to be traded with gold for just a little higher than a completely arbitrary max the devs decided on

[raven eagle]

That is a problem caused by the lack of a market buy system for batch purchasing. We shouldn't inhibit one good thing because another part of the game is faulty - let's fix both!

[unique portal]

It also allows for funneling of gold to other players which would trigger more people using multiple accounts.

[raven eagle]

Already addressed in the OP

[unique portal]

You are talking about botting not multi accounts.

[raven eagle]

Multi accounts are tied together with botting - semantic difference

[weak elbow]

I think this would just let very rich players get richer while shafting new players

[shadow arrow]

"Items now have a maximum gem price on the market, which depends on the item and its quality. This is meant to reduce the severity of “scam” trades (e.g buying cheap items in bulk and accidentally buying one for 10,000 gems)."

Kabam have indicated that's not something they're cool with.

[shadow arrow]

Correct, hence why the caps were added

We've tried unregulated market and it just screws over way too many newer players to allow the top end to control it

[raven eagle]

It wouldn't shaft new players - it lets the market decide the fair prices. If new players don't have gold...the prices come down

You could say right now the wealthy players are getting shafted with the same argument.

[unique portal]

How are the wealthy players getting shafted?

[raven eagle]

By not being able to transfer goods with their abundant gold without going through the Kabam rake to convert to gems.

The limits aren't there to protect players - they're there to draw wealth out of the game. Let's be honest.

[unique portal]

And that is a good thing though.

[raven eagle]

Not necessarily

[weak elbow]

at the very least it stops in-game inflation from going bonkers

same as tax

[raven eagle]

It doesn't though - the inflation just shifts in the gold to gem ratio

and puts pressure on players to spend more RL $ on gems

Other than Kabam wants more money, i don't see a good argument for the limits to exist.

[shadow arrow]

To stop shit like that happening

[weak elbow]

from what I've seen gem=gold values rarely change drastically, but that might be my limited experience

[raven eagle]

Buy it for 2 gems then.

Having no gold available item versus that isn't different

for a lower player

[weak elbow]

yeah, this literally prevents people from buying it "at fair price" since we can only see 1 item in the market

[pure lagoon]

they shift when new tier comes out and settle at something reasonable due to market max pricing pretty fast

[shadow arrow]

"Ah yes I'm new to ST and I'll blow all my gems to be able to craft t1 and t2 prints, who needs expansions"

We've tried unregulated, it doesn't work out well for the playerbase

[raven eagle]

The same thing happens for anything that's listed for gems. I don't know who's buying my T1 items for 2 gems, but they're being preyed on just the same

[shadow arrow]

No-one is forced to spend money on ST 😛

[raven eagle]

no, but you understand the end result - when it becomes overwhelming valuable, more people are incentivized to do so

[pure lagoon]

the beauty of caps is that they could also just make a max gold request and not get shafted by next player that comes along and offer 1 more

[raven eagle]

which already happens today with caps

for lower value items

and if someone's going to overcut or undercut, that means the price isn't the right price

and it'll balance

[pure lagoon]

I stated MAX gold request

below max it's all fair game, but with no caps it's pure bs

[raven eagle]

no...because people frustrated with getting overcut will go 10% or double, etc.

just like under the cap limit today

We should run a 1 month experiment - it'd be interesting to see the results

[shadow arrow]

We already did
When the game launched

Why do you think we have caps now

[raven eagle]

And nothing in the game has changed since then?

[shadow arrow]

Last I checked human nature didn't change

[raven eagle]

it can be easy to draw hasty conclusions from early data though. I think it'd be interesting

[pure lagoon]

it ends with people shorting markets and inflating prices
small supply of some items (prem stuff mostly) is just horrible for no caps and always will be

[raven eagle]

but again...is having an item with a 1G price versus NOT being offered for gold any different for a low player?

they can't buy it either way

and I won't put my mushrooms on market for 1200 gold...but I might for 10K

so...items are sitting on the sidelines that could actually increase supply

[unique portal]

Yes, because request are still a thing for items that arent on the market that much

[raven eagle]

Effectively not though. If I can only request at max then I'm in a queue of unknown length with no visibility into when I can expect to get a fill. That's no better than having to up my offer to those higher than me

To quote myself where one bad design shouldn't limit other things...if instead we want to give that visibility, I think that would help a lot

But I'm sure I'll get the same sort of response where the game is perfect, be quiet, go away 😄

[unique portal]

Of the two designs. The current and the one you are proposing. The current is just better right now.

I agree that the market can be better but this isnt it.

[raven eagle]

That's an opinion. I have a different opinion. Maybe let's open a poll

[unique portal]

The poll is already open with the emoticons on your suggestion

[raven eagle]

I mean, the number of people who are going to see this are something like a percent of a percent and be overwhelming represented by what I call momentum users (users who want the current system to change the least). I'd be curious to start seeing in game polls.

[unique portal]

I am pretty sure they aren't going to annoy people in game with that.

[raven eagle]

Not that this topic necessarily reaches that level of wanting broad user feedback...but some might

[raven eagle]

Thanks for proving my point 😄

waits for the other champions to upvote your comment

[unique portal]

Weird statement but alright.

[raven eagle]

I don't mean to be a jerk - just a tendency I see in the discord

[weak elbow]

this doesn't sound like somebody arguing in good faith

[unique portal]

I am out of this discussion now that you made it personal. Have a good day!

[raven eagle]

It's fine - just shows that the suggestion process is fundamentally flawed. You have an entrenched group of folks that are acting as gatekeepers for new ideas. I'll discontinue with utilizing the process and everyone can be happier.

[weak elbow]

naturally everybody is wrong except me

[pure lagoon]

So, uh, having same opinion as a different member of community (be they Champ or not) that's not your opinion is wrong in a way?

Anyway, back to the suggestion, we've got the level restrictions for tiers on market and gold caps to keep growth/progress in check and prevent abusive marketing practices.
I definitely see no real value in making early game worse for most people by creating market which can change at a whim of few players just so you can list or buy that t11/t12 epic for like 100M gold instead of 20 gems 🤷. Higher caps, maybe, but no caps are not healthy for plethora of reasons.

Sure, there's rooms to improve market, but pure anarchy with prices won't do us much good

[halcyon pier]

I think the real solution is just having an easier way to filter the market by what's not currently listed by anyone for gold, or is in shorter supply right now

[slate merlin]

after reading this thread, i'm very glad to hear this

also, the mechanics of caps make some items to be primarily traded in gems and not gold. having uncapped market would make spending/earning gems in market more difficult. not sure who benefits from that.

[serene jewel]

I don't think it's a good argument to say it won't work because it didn't work in the past.

Many other aspects of the game have changed since then. (I've been playing since day one).

And I believe that certain things that didn't work before would work today. I at least believe that increasing to more than 10x would be fair.

Mainly because each new tier made the market value of gems go up.

[cerulean musk]

So what? Farm them yourself if you want them cheaper in that case. It is not like you couldn't do that. Why should I be gold limited because I still run those quests at times? The max price is horridly low specifically for those. One reason the market often has none!

[cerulean musk]

What does a max gold price have to do with gems? You can list things for gems if you want, but they are much less likely to sell in my experience, including regularly out of stock (for gold) mats.

[cerulean musk]

Don't buy them if you don't want to pay that. New players certainly would not. It still makes no sense the price is capped (for me at least) at 1200 gold per, when the market is completely empty and they sell almost immediately. Clearly they would sell for 12000 or even 120000 if the demand was there. Or people could farm them directly, what a novel idea!

[cerulean musk]

You are not "shafted" just because someone is willing to pay more. You could pay more if you wanted to do that as well.

[unique portal]

It is capped because players that are still in tier 1 need them. They cant pay more than that at that moment.

[shadow arrow]

New players would then be screwed

Sounds like a solid way to keep growing a playerbase by locking them out of the market for early tier stuff

[pure lagoon]

would be perfectly balanced if you could make millions from 1 quest by selling components from there in matter of minutes but also had to turn those components into items worth few hundred/thousand coins to sell in shop for xp

[raven eagle]

That's the thing - I think it'd balance out eventually. Even though it's ever increasing, you could still consider gold a zero sum game. If things go up in gold value due to cap removals, it means other things will drop in value because there will be less gold available

[pure lagoon]

potentially would but it would still most likely make whole early and mid game less enjoyable and more volatile experience (and market in general).

[gaunt berry]

If they brought this back I’d abuse the market like I did before

Abuse might be too strong of a word. Bully?the market

[raven eagle]

"Correctly utilize as the magnate you are" I think is the best way to describe it

[faint ermine]

I’ll give an example of why this would ruin early game completely.

t1 components aren’t worth being farmed and would be bought by older players till stabilizing above 50k (example cost)
New players would not be able to buy components since cost is so high and running off of just quest components slows early game too quickly yielding less players who will continue playing the game

[cerulean musk]

So? They could farm them themselves if they needed them, or wait until they could farm them. Why is an empty market better than an expensive one?

[cerulean musk]

The game locks them out if no one is selling. I often find nothing on the market for many low-level mats. Sometimes they are below max as well, but not having them on the market is not better than having them on the market but too costly.

[unique portal]

Because you can still request them for a decent price.

[limber knot]

Yep, you can request them for maxprice and then wait your turn. People do sell those, they just don't sell enough to have more than the demand currently is.

[sleek furnace]

There was an accidental "experiment" just a couple weeks ago when the max price was bugged out and people aren't happy.. and it doesn't only affect newbies, it is easy to suddenly purchase a t4 components for 100-200M each by accident. It's not a good "feature" at all

[cerulean musk]

I fail to see the need for this. I didn't use the market at all until after level 40 and maybe level 50. You can play the game just fine without some things being on the market. You also still failed to note that anyone can farm mats. Why must they have to be able to buy them on the market?

[gentle ledge]

this would inversely unbalance the game on both sides of the fence.
for the sake of this example glowshrooms jump to 100k each, ok so you dont "need" to buy them sure, but on side A the new players who use glowshrooms the most cant afford them, and on side B those same players can hunt those glowshrooms themselves completely negating the need for their shop, why would anyone make squire swords and the like when they could just farm glowshrooms for 100k a piece?

[restive sequoia]

honestly I could understand having the cap for at least epic/legendary items increased, but otherwise I'm gonna have to agree with the majority here, no real reason to charge more than 10x the item's value

[uneven canyon]

I think the price cap is good for most items. New players shouldn't have to wait until level 50+ to begin to use the market

However, I think expanding the gold price ranges for blues, purples, and yellows might have some merit

[unique portal]

Farming mats will gatekeep you in the early game. The crafting time is so low that you will run out within the hour. Also gatekeeping people on using the market is not something you want either, Actually, playing the game through the market is the most profitable right now for new players.

[raven eagle]

Most people learn after one mistake like that. And the current system doesn't prevent mistakes either - you can accidentally sell legendaries for minimum gold too.

The best thing would be to pair the removal of a cap with a "buy X amount at total price Y" for things offered...sort of like a stock transaction

Then you couldn't accidentally click through a normal price to a skyrocketed price

(which is also still a problem with current market)

[main shoal]

While I don't agree with an unlimited price on items, a higher maximum would be nice... Maybe make it a guild perk so it's not just innate or idk something like that? Something else to grind / work for 🤷

[pure lagoon]

Guild perk sounds like "rich get richer" scenario.

[main shoal]

isn't that what whales do either way I'm just trying to think of something. If it doesn't happen no biggie. Just a thought to meet in the middle