Pass: 1500+ Small Talks is too much

[tardy heron]

Let's see

75% success means in average 2000 small talks total, divided by 28 days that's about 70 small talks per day

I'd say that's doable

[brittle ore]

I am at 537/1000 on the last stage. So It is very possible in my opinion

[woeful sundial]

Sell at least 100 items (doesn't matter whether discounted or surcharged or not) and just smalltalk each and every one. Done.

Every day of event. Or more.

[fading skiff]

Sorry, I didn't mean it's not possible... it's simply... how to say... boring?

Have to forcely try small talk on every single customer.

[crystal tusk]

wait people dont smalltalk every customer?

[spark mirage]

I'm done with it

and we have 24 days left

and I didn't grind it on purpose

You could have grinded it out in one day...so I think it's fairly balanced

I really dislike the time bound things like daily login or king visits

[wispy mica]

I already finished it too, it doesn’t really take that long, also exactly what rob said

[ocean bear]

Yep.. done with that.. just have to finish Surcharge now...

[civic isle]

easy one too

only "annoying" ones are crafting X specific item type this time around

[spark mirage]

how dare you. I love those!

[fading skiff]

It fails too often for my personal tastes, so seeing I don't like my gameplay to depend too much from RNG, I only small talk them when I just doubled an Item so there's very few energy left to lose with a small talk fail.

Infact it stresses me now to have to small talk all of them for this objective to be accomplished.

Also probably you play much more hours thank me. Seeing that trying to small talk all of them, I'm still at 374/500 on second tier.

Surely I'll finish it before the pass elapses... but for me it's stressy. 🤷

[tame gyro]

There’s usually an extra mission or two as well? Suppose you’d have to math it out. But I don’t think 100% completion is needed? :p

(Royal merch def has extra)

[fading skiff]

Well, I still didn't complete it 66% and still hard to stand doing 500+ of them.

[tame gyro]

There’s three weeks left still. Maybe you won’t make it but I’m gonna surcharge more items than that in that time and small talk em all lol

[upper talon]

Easy if you're on 3h a day or 8h a day but some of us do 2h a day and won't finish. Consider the casual players honestly! And consider people below level 40 trying to complete.

[tame gyro]

Easier if you craft t1s other than the likely slower customer rate. More items, less time. The main limiter is customer inflow but you could craft the items in like 15-20 mins, if you have food you’ll get additional sales/small talks as well
(just trying to help out ^_^)

[crystal tusk]

well, events are not supposed to be "everyone can do this" or they would just send us the rewards in the mail. Yes the event is laughably easy for late game players, but for newer players some tasks may take a lot more effort. imo, if you are struggling this time it gives you something to strive for, and next time 6ou can see how much further you can get.

[civic isle]

you also don't need to complete every task, there's plenty of extra points on the track.
and 2h a day is definitely more than enough to complete it

[light island]

I've completed it 2 days ago, I think this is very doable over the course of like 2 weeks even for new players. Especially since some tasks overlap (craft a bunch of, presumeably t1 spears, enchant them, smalltalk them, surcharge them). If the event only lasted 1 week- sure, it would be too hard for most of the players. But its a month.

edit: it's also a really good habit to smalltalk all/most sales anyway

[fading skiff]

I just finished it now, even if I tried to small talk them all up to now.

[edgy crest]

Well there's still 16 days left so
We can conclude that 1.5k was not too much? 😛

[fading skiff]

As said, that wasn't the sense of my post.

The sense is that I was forced to play the game in a way I didn't like for half a month.

Seeing that for most people is not an issue in any case, it could still be possible to lower the amount of necessary small talks.

It is already few for people playing a lot, so it would change nothing for them.

While for people whom don't wanna play like that, like me, it would be by far a better quality of life in game.

[civic isle]

you don't need to complete all stages of every task to claim final reward. Think you could actually skip that one entirely (even as full f2p).
Then again, it's a bit of a "do x to gain y" if it were all tasks that you'd do naturally there'd be 0 "challenge" in it. Same as craft X specific item types, it's also out of the way for some people and we had 2 of those tasks 🤷

[spark mirage]

I think most of the CP is playing in a way people don't like. I actually LIKE the CP for that reason...it makes me play in ways I don't play. It gets boring in endgame to just be min maxing the best crafts

When was the last time I crafted a T1 spear...and I rarely build anything with leather (silk)

[edgy crest]

Yeah, content passes make me do stuff I'd ignore normally

Like bounties

[spark mirage]

heresy

I was a typical 40-50 bounties a week kind of guy, but I've been running with 4/4/5 bins and it's been a lot more fun

Die in a fire rack meta!

[fading skiff]

When somebody plays lesser than others, he have to try all the objective, to be sure to achieve the whole pass.

That's why I prefer to try them all.

[fading skiff]

After 3 or dunno how much season pass, I know for sure I don't like to small talks all customers.

I don't need every pass to force me to do at least 500+ times small talking to remember me I don't like it. ^_^

I still think:

• If they lower the total amount of smart talk needed: - nobody has bad side effect in his gameplay experience + somebody could have positive effect in quality of life.

• if they don't lower: - I (and some others like me, I'm surely not the only one) will be bored again to try to do at least 500+ small talks, by small talking everybody when they wouldn't want to.

So I still don't see the point of defending the mount of 1500+ small talking needed on every pass... when lowering it changes nothing to the most, and make feel a better quality of life experience to others.

[tardy heron]

It's really not that much though, considering you have almost an entire month to complete it

[fading skiff]

I already answered about "it's not about he fact it is doable or not. It is about the fact for how long it bothers people whom don't like to do it, until they can succeed it".

Guys, I really wish somebody could answer somethng like:
"No! Don't lower it! It would have XXX bad side effect!!!"

Otherwise what's the sense of defending it?

Up to now you only answered like "It's ok anyway, because...".
But it's ok anyway for you, while there are also players for whom it's not "ok anyway"...
And seeing it seems to have no side effect to lower it... I still don't see the point to defend it...

[spark mirage]

I think they did this on purpose to benefit the summoner. It's one of the 6 quests that benefits from spending RL money

[fading skiff]

I'm not sure I understood, sorry.

[spark mirage]

In other words, small talks are easier if you spend money to buy the summoner. So they keep quests like that on the CP to encourage people to spend money

It's still not a defense (I think it's one of the weaker quests on the CP), but it might give some thinking into why it's there

[fading skiff]

Do you mean Yolanda?
How does she helps on small talks?

(Anyway I think they started put 1500+ small talks in season pass before Yolanda was introduced into the game)

[fading skiff]

Ah ok

But I don't think that is the motivation

At the end, as you said, it's still very doable.
I myself wouldn't buy a character just to finish that quest some days earlier, and just for... dunno 3 o 4 pass yearly.

[spark mirage]

maybe not...but it's all reinforcing

maybe you wouldn't buy RM to make CP easier

but the more perks they put on the pay stuff, the more it might just be enough to get someone not spending to spend

[fading skiff]

Ok, undestood

anyway, we all said our points of view, still I see no negative effect on lowering it.

but I'm not optimist they'll change it... 🤷

[spark mirage]

i think what would be telling would be the metrics behind the scenes. If a quest is completed by say 20% fewer people than the other quests, likely that's one that should be up for consideration to be killed next time

but if any quest is basically done as frequently as the average, or more than average, we may not like it, but there's good justification to keep it there

Have the users vote with their clicks

😄

[fading skiff]

I'm a person which looks a lot on the "quality of life" of players.
If a quest lowers the quality of life in some players experience, it doesn't need to be not achieved for the most to be retouched.
For me the quality of life in a game is as much important as the general balance of the gameplay.

[spark mirage]

Right - but I think that's what I mean by the data. If the quest was so awful that it was horrible to do - I'd imagine fewer people would do it. Even if everyone hated it, if they end up doing it a lot...that means they felt like they had to - so maybe it still helped people achieve a goal that they couldn't otherwise

[fading skiff]

Nah, I think that all player try to do them all, until they reach the maximum level.

so they both are sure they can succeed it, and to succeed in lesser time possible

Like I did

And I still didn't reach the top prize, neither.

[spark mirage]

I'm biased as I try to do everything
But if I didn't...I would calculate which quests are needed for the least effort

But maybe I'm weird that way

[fading skiff]

But I think everybody usually tries to do everything

Even if you're sure you can finish it in time (which I'm not, I can never know if something happens IRL), people still want to finish it sooner possible.

[tame gyro]

I didn’t really look too much for the first week. Just played as I normally would. Then I spammed t1 crafts. Now I’m like 3 quests away or something and it’s just picking if I wanna finish fast

Looks like you can skip 6 or so thing worth 150

Only need 2*

[tardy heron]

By that logic I'm going to make a post to remove the bounty task because I don't like doing them

[civic isle]

I mean, small talk is a core game mechanic, the fact you don't like using it is purely on you.
1500 successes is 2000 customers without Yolanda or 1875 with Yolanda. That's like, uh, 100 customers per day during event (edit: event is actually 25d not 20d like I thought, so, it's even fewer customers per day, 80)

If you play something like 2-3 20-30min sessions in a day you'd probably finish small talk before fusions or bounties

[spark mirage]

I mean, I don't particularly enjoy small talk...but mostly because I don't like the RNG...or how banking energy is detrimental. I can understand the OP disliking it. Especially if you're a market or crafting player and less of a shop selling player

[fading skiff]

You cold ask to lower the amount of bounties to do.

But bounties are a guild mechanic, so I suppose you do a certain amount of them to support your guild.
It's not just up to your personal taste.

So you could propose a lesser amount of them, if you think lesser of them would be a enough.

Still: while somebody could say: "No, don't put lesser bounties objectives: they're good for guild support!",
nobody can say "No, don't put lesser small talks needed: they're good for..." for what? Nothing. It's just personal for each player.

.
Surely somebody without a guild could actually come and say that a bounty objective is not fair...

(Actually I don't remember if there are no bounties without guild... I suppose yes.. but if somebody plays without guild, probably he already knows he misses things).

[fading skiff]

It's useless you calculate hypotetical stuffs.

I have real data from my own gameplay: it took me a boring half month do to it.
And I didn't like it.

So doing calculation and hipotesys are not necessary in this argument, I talk on facts.

Fact are:

• Does the amount of small talking bores somebody in his gameplay's quality of life? Yes. (Me and whom like me.)
• Does lowering the amount of necessary small talk have any negative impact on somebody in his gameplay's quality of life? No.

You're just like keep answering: "It's still ok for me the current amount".
But it doesn't both justify the current necessary amount of small talks, nor make the situation better for others just because it's ok for you.

Just remember we are not all the same and also we don't have all the same opportunities to play the game.

[tardy heron]

I mean I really don't like bounties

[fading skiff]

Good, acknowledged, open your own thread about bounties, then.

[civic isle]

I'm saying it's insignificant quantity of small talks.
Also, following your logic what Azuris said is right, anyone who doesn't like crafting could just be "omg 100 crafts is too much it's ruining my QoL" or "I don't like bounties and 100 trophies is way too much"
And I'm not saying that current quantity is fine for me, it's fine for the game design itself. Both by the fact you got a very large time span to do it, the fact you don't need to reach final milestone of the task and the fact that small talk is a core game mechanic.
Can't really do the calculations right now but I'm pretty confident you don't need to do that task at all even as full f2p (or maybe just 1st milestone which is like 100 small talks or some such)

[fading skiff]

I'm saying it's insignificant quantity of small talks.
It is insignificant for you.

[civic isle]

it is, it's like 60 per day, how is that a big deal?

[fading skiff]

The big deal is that it ruins my quality of life into the game.

[civic isle]

and that's 60 for completing that specific task completely

[edgy crest]

I don't like having to use Argon to kill bosses as I normally use polonia for loot, can we remove that task? It's affecting my quality of life having to put him in everywhere

[civic isle]

which you don't have to complete

[fading skiff]

For 16 long days I had to bother myself instead than enjoying the game.

[edgy crest]

I really hate crafting spears, I don't like using wood cause it encourages deforestation. Can we remove that task? 😛

[fading skiff]

You know what? I agree with you.
I also hate the "Use XXX to kill the boss" objective... it has no sense: let people play their games the way they want!

There are lot of other bounties they could invent and people would achieve in their normal gaming.

The small talk objective itself it has sense. Just for me it is too much to stand for people not using to small talk ALL of their customers.

I'm not saying to remove small talks objective, but just to adapt its amount also to people not really small talking every single customer.

[fading skiff]

Yes, ok, but don't joke on people: it doesn't make your argumentation more strong.
It's just disrespect.

I'm not joking on your argumentations.

[edgy crest]

My point was arguing from a basis of it's affecting your quality of life (having to small talk) could be applied to nearly every task in the pass

People who don't like to sell in shop for example as they prefer to market for more money, do we remove the surcharge one?

The pass is designed to be able to be completed as F2P and still be able to skip some tasks, I would personally say that's a fair compromise

You can ignore that one entirely if you felt so inclined

[fading skiff]

And I understood it.

And I also already answered that actually I agree that if anybody feels any of the task can ruin somebody quality of life and has a balancement suggestion to do, so let's do it!

It's not said that dev can never mistake on their taks balancements.
And the same, it's not said that they have to balance them only on most active players.

For example: I think to be an average active player, and still I took 16 days to finish it. And I small talked evreybody.
Most of you answered, at the start of the thread, they took just a a handful of days!

I still think to be an average active player, but still there's a very sensible difference.

It means that the experience with those task may VERY MUCH vary between players.
So if somebody thinks it's the case to rebalance for the best gaming experience for everybody, let's do it!

.
Also, the fact that you can apply an argumentation to all tasks, doesn't mean you cannot apply it on none of them... 🤷

[edgy crest]

Well, for balancing they'll be using their own metrics based on what they think the average player can do (it's why you shouldn't expect content to ever require like fully decked-out legendary heroes.)

And again, you have the capability to skip a task if you don't enjoy it, rather than forcing yourself to do something you dislike. If we look at the points available from the f2p tasks (so none of the premium ones.)

You can ignore it and still ignore part of another

[civic isle]

nah, let's just cut out all the tasks.
maybe they should just give us rewards with an option to pay 1500 gems to claim extra rewards

[edgy crest]

I would hate to see it nerfed and it gives less points (cause I don't see them lowering the amount without also lowering the points from it) when there's already a system built-in to allow you to avoid tasks you hate

I mean I'd personally love the bounty one to be lowered to something like 5/10/15 trophies but I'm damned certain they'd nerf the points and it'd also be unfair on those who do like doing them

[fading skiff]

The argument is over for me.
Reason or not, I don't like to talk with people having fun of others point of view.

[spark mirage]

There is more momentum/gravity of ideas on this discord compared to any other community I've seen. In other words, any recommendation has more proof to overcome than is typical - lot of status quo viewpoints. And yes, people are often sarcastic about it.
I feel disappointed that you didn't feel heard or valued, but I'm not surprised.
I think ultimately it's a battle between users having to do things they don't enjoy versus giving other folks in end game something to do. What I'd like to see is MORE optional quests or more levels to the quests that are unnecessary. Then people like me can keep chasing it for full completion, but fewer people have to do things they dislike doing.

I'm ok killing the left one 😄

[halcyon turtle]

Also keep in mind if you don't want to play the game then you don't have to get all 5k points to get all the rewards. It's there for those that want it. If you don't then accept you won't get the final prize.

I'm no where near end game at level 68 and yet I've 100% the content pass just doing my own thing (minus the bunny shield and lcog) within the first week of playing casually. I'm mastering all of my blueprints up to t7. Just like the regular events if you don't want to do the event or can't then don't expect all the rewards. The requirements for both the pass and events are set so that even a level 40 player should be able to do it.

[bronze pendant]

to be fair, the whole point of a "content" pass is to get people to participate in the content... theres questing, talking, selling, crafting, enchanting, fusing, bounties, etc... not everybody normally does everything, theres parts people will love, and parts they will not, everybody is different and this entices people to try different things, to play differently, i would not have done half of what is in there by playing "normally", if it was meant to be as easy as just playing normally it might as well have been login rewards (fwiw, i used my free "neglects" on the fusion task)

edit: event is actually 25d not 20d
double edit, the pass was actually 29d

[halcyon turtle]

And at 12 customers/min you can easily get 8-10 successful if you are actively playing or another full load whenever you come back to craft the next set of items. Do it 200 times and boom done. It needs to be enough to make it a task worthy objective, so it won't be 10 or 50 because it needs to be a reasonable amount over 30 days.

[spark mirage]

not everyone has max counter, so I can see customers being more difficult

[civic isle]

Well, not everyone is meant to complete every event or content pass (hence the tiered rewards) but the current goals are well within limits of almost everyone
also, counter size won't affect customer flow much if at all if you're active, shop size might though

[light island]

To comment on "there is no downside to lowering the requirements"
I think there is. Event was easy for me, but it was fun because I had to change the way I play for a while, and (my decision) to try to complete it as fast as possible, to make use of changed market.

If I was capable of completing the event in 1-2 days due to lowered requirements - I wouldn't have much fun at all.
Adjusting the difficulty to fit the most casual/least engaged players is taking the fun away from mid-game players. I'm not a whale, but if someone was to spend a lot of money on a mobile game - it would be mid-endgame players, not people who can't do 1500 smalltalk task - another perspective to consider.

I thought that voluntary "easy mode" and "hard mode" would be a solution to this, but hardmode would naturally need to have better rewards, and I can already see new players being mad that they are being "punished"...

Content pass was easy. Even casual players have a more-than-fair chance at completing them, or at least getting some/many rewards.
You can't barely play the game AND get all the rewards that require participation, just like you can't eat your cake and have it too. CP is very much optional.

[light island]

btw - 5505 - number of all points a free-to-play player can get. I'm not even counting bunbun craft, which can be achieved by f2p by antique shop. So yes, absolutely you CAN get all of the rewards and not complete all free tasks.

[fading skiff]

Guys, if the thread owner closes the thread, please keep it closed.
Thank you.