news-discussion

[daring elm]

Certain premiums tanks like the Kampingpanzer 70 and K-91 got turned into collectors

[wild badge]

ty so much for clearing that out <333

[gleaming lotus]

what's his EU username? i thought 7star was russian

[pulsar oyster]

WayToSucces

[gleaming lotus]

43% wr with 3500 avg damage over 44 battles is hilarious. what a great update

[pulsar oyster]

Exactly it tells how they broke the mm

[gleaming lotus]

https://www.blitzstars.com/player/eu/palfar

[native scroll]

Fix the matchmaker. Just lost 10 out of 13 battles, a couple of which I did over 4k. The new mm is utterly abysmal.

All in the maus, which supposedly has one of the higher win rates in tier X right now.

[tiny crater]

At this rate I don't think I can get credits for T110E3

[brittle scroll]

gamemodes exist, where the mm is unaffected luckily

[tiny crater]

Battles always unfair

[brittle scroll]

in gamemodes? nah

[native scroll]

But if I need to win encounter battles to advance a mission, I can't complete those when the fun mode is supremacy only (as it is currently vis a vis mad games)

[gleaming lotus]

gamemodes have rigged MM dude. They've had rigged MM for years

[tiny crater]

40/60 chance you get a good team in game modes

[brittle scroll]

now what would be the point of rigged mm?

what reason could wg possibly have

if you actually think gamemode mm is rigged, you haven't played the game

[gleaming lotus]

Lol what? This has literally been proven. Blitz analysis did a study on it with thousands of battles. Good players get put with lower WR teams in special gamemodes

https://blitzanalysiz.com/blog/2020-11-10_rigged_mad_games_mm/

[halcyon gale]

Hello there, I'm new

Can I ask if you please to know how to join tournaments?

[woeful spade]

This has only been done once, in 7.3, as far as I am aware

[high shell]

Yes old mm is very rigged but it's must be rigged. two %70 wr players can easily destroy entire .Mach Soo rigged mach making is needed

[gleaming lotus]

Is there proof that the winrate deviation was gone after 7.3? Because I haven't seen any contrary proof that they ever removed it

[brittle scroll]

1000 games is a very small sample size for the scale of the game, and people could very easily cherry pick games that support their view

again what reason does wargaming have to rig the matchmaker

and have you thought of the possibility of there being a bug in the code perhaps if the 'rigged mm' is actually a thing?

[gleaming lotus]

This was already addressed in the article. Also, in pubs there was no deviation observed. Also, 2% is a large deviation over 1000 games.

What reason did wargaming have to add sbmm? It's the same deal, granting noobs free wins, perhaps because they mistakenly believe granting a larger portion of the playerbase free wins at the expense of the minority will lead to larger player retention and thus more profit. There are any number of reasons but that's irrelevant to the fact that the data exists.

"bug in the code" not possible. Coding errors don't accidentally match higher winrate players with lower winrate players lol

[high shell]

Wg wants to bellow %45 noob players stay in the game

[brittle scroll]

no deviation in pubs actually showcases the opposite, wouldn't that make the mm more rigged to make teams balanced?

gamemode games don't get tracked on your profile besides the gamemode avatars, but those are realistically meaningless. gamemodes are only unlocked from tier V and up so your argument doesn't make sense. especially if you think about the fact that a winrate difference would mean that more often than not the noobs are on the 'losing' side of the matchup because that's how math works.

and clearly you have no coding experience, bugs are very likely, there isn't necessarily one bug changing everything but there is a possibility of various small bugs causing problems that even wargaming isn't aware of.

not to mention that this data is severely outdated, who says that this still holds true, if it even was in the first place?

[lone orchid]

They realized that they cant keep the 60-70%, so that explained why they added SBMM

[high shell]

I think you hate sbmm too but. cuz you work at wg you can't Criticize wg

[brittle scroll]

i don't work for wg, and i disapprove of the implemented sbmm in 10.7

what i'm arguing is that gamemode mm is not rigged

[halcyon gale]

Thank you guys for ( )

[high shell]

Find yourself a 6 people and join tournament if you lucky you won first Battle

[gleaming lotus]

"no deviation in pubs actually showcases the opposite, wouldn't that make the mm more rigged to make teams balanced?"

I don't get your point here. That is not true lol. If you pull a large sampling of random players you should expect the friendly and enemy team to have the same percentage of wins which is what was observed.

"gamemode games don't get tracked on your profile besides the gamemode avatars, but those are realistically meaningless"

Gameplay is gameplay. Poor players don't care about stats but they sure love special gamemodes.

"especially if you think about the fact that a winrate difference would mean that more often than not the noobs are on the 'losing' side of the matchup because that's how math works."

Not strictly true. There is more nuance than you described, and the data observed lower winrate players to have a higher relative winrate as well, as said in the article.

"not to mention that this data is severely outdated, who says that this still holds true, if it even was in the first place?"

Clearly we ended up with SBMM so it is logical to conclude special gamemodes have been used as a testing ground for their MM experimentation

[woeful spade]

The assumption of innocence prevails without evidence, and WG claimed that game modes are not applying the SBMM

[midnight spindle]

why i dont have 100K damage quest?

[high shell]

I don't have too i think it's randomly given players

[brittle scroll]

logical to conclude that gamemodes were used for testing mm?
yeah no that's flaud reasoning.

you're assuming that your initial argument is true, which is very likely is not to be the case and the data is very outdated, by several years in fact

[brittle scroll]

you just so happened to be one of the unlucky people

[gleaming lotus]

My initial argument which was that the special gamemodes used to be rigged? We know that is true. Please read the article in detail, it addresses many of the counterarguments you tried to raise

[brittle scroll]

i did read, i wouldn't be making these arguments otherwise

people submitting '10 games' is not enough of a sample size

[gleaming lotus]

You brought up random variation over a 1000 game sample size as a counterpoint when that was already addressed to not be the case, with such a margin having a 2.2*10^-6 chance of happening

[woeful spade]

This is my personal opinion without supportive evidence, but I do believe that SBMM was tested in fun modes, particularly Realistic and Skirmish

[midnight spindle]

Just throw all the 40%wr, 30%, and maybe 20% & 10%ers to the separate matching queue until their WR improves to maybe above 50%. Match based on average stats on each tier, not overall avg stats

[gleaming lotus]

I think you missed the point here. Less games per player and more players is preferable ideally. The concern was that if each player was submitting only one battle, it would be a cherrypicked game, but if the majority of the games are entire sessions being submitted, that implies there was no cherrypicking involved and they instead just submitted their entire session

[lone orchid]

Acc under 30% should get permabanned.

[pseudo crescent]

The matchmaker was never “rigged”, it was just lenient towards people who were having a hard time. If you lost a certain amount of games, you were more likely to be top tier.

To assume that fun modes specifically have/had rigged matchmaking means it was present in other modes, too. It makes zero sense for it to be in fun modes specifically. Worse players play fun modes more, and if you think otherwise, then why do so many better players want to be Boss over their teammates? It’s because they don’t trust they can do the job well.

Even if the matchmaker actually did rig games in favour of worse players in fun modes, who cares? Your stats aren’t affected. Are we proving/disproving this for fun?

What we have now in 10.7, the skill-based matchmaker, is far more noticeable than whatever the hell we had going on in fun modes. So no. I don’t think the matchmaker was ever rigged. It certainly is now, though.

[gleaming lotus]

anecdotal opinion doesn't trump data

[pseudo crescent]

Your “data” cannot be proven. And it was tracked over 1000 games that weren’t recorded. What does it mean if you’re right? That WG planned this new SBMM for longer than we thought? Is that why I should be concerned, or even listening to this silly notion?

[midnight spindle]

You see, it's likely that trolls mostly are 0 ~ 40%ers, cuz it doesn't make sense that you can make your 50% 60% or higher winrate by constant trolling.

One's high winrate leading to have relatively higher chance to have trolls in his team makes this mm bs.

[gleaming lotus]

No offense but claiming they just made up statistics is ridiculous

[pseudo crescent]

Is it tho?? Do you realize this is the internet? People make stuff up on the daily.

[gleaming lotus]

Yes it is ridiculous. Common sense tells us a reputable source such as blitz analysis wouldn't spend an inordinate amount of time making an extensive made up study with significant backing evidence that all has to line up just to fake prove that mad games has rigged MM for no reason lol.

[gaunt trellis]

play 3 battles , lose 2 permbanned :kewk

[lone orchid]

Ok😂. Let me add context, all acc with over 5500 battles, and less then 30% wr should be permabanned.

[edgy pewter]

What BlitzAnalysiz found was most likely one of a series of tests used in the development of theMM changes. They may have needed large scale tests to gather data on the effect on the server as well as on the battles. Since special modes are popular but don’t affect stats they would be a good test bed.

The length of time, four years, is similar to how long the separate queue was tested, but it also means that the final version was not identical to what BlitzAnalysiz found. Tanks in Live Test are tested, changed, and retested before release, and something similar was probably done with the MM change.

[high shell]

5500 is too high almost everybody learn game at 3000 battles

[pseudo crescent]

For no reason, sure. What their reasons may be are still not clear. I honestly believe that the existence of “proofs” like this was what led us to where we are now. Did Blitz analysis even bother straight up asking the devs or whoever may be in charge of the matchmaker if it’s “rigged” before they picked special modes to run their tests in? They went into this feeling the matchmaker was rigged, and proved themselves right. You should be trying to prove yourself wrong.

Again- who does it benefit if the FUN MODES, the stuff that some players exclusively come back to Blitz on occasion to play, are rigged?? 10.7 is rigged in a way that is actually noticeable, and WarGaming said so themselves. If WG did not tell anyone the MM for fun modes was rigged in the past, but they did say you were top tier on a losing streak, or preferential matchmaking as they call it, I believe that, and I can see that with my own two eyes.

I could never see rigged matchmaking in fun modes. All I could see was returning players who couldn’t care less about a win or a loss. Reasons above are the reason I’m calling this research superstitious.

[small tendon]

Did any wg employee said anything about the new mm?

[pseudo crescent]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[gleaming lotus]

"They went into this feeling the matchmaker was rigged"

Wrong. He received special request to do an extensive study on it. It's addressed in the very first paragraph.

"who does it benefit if the FUN MODES, the stuff that some players exclusively come back to Blitz on occasion to play, are rigged??"

Already gave several reasons for this.

"0.7 is rigged in a way that is actually noticeable" .. "and I can see that with my own two eyes."

Anecdotal

"I could never see rigged matchmaking in fun modes. All I could see was returning players who couldn’t care less about a win or a loss. Reasons above are the reason I’m calling this research superstitious."

Anecdotal again. Your individual feelings don't trump data taken from hundreds of players lol. Also whether or not the players care about winning in gamemodes is irrelevant to their career winrates

[woeful spade]

I felt it in 7.3 when this was conducted

[pseudo crescent]

Ok so I’m incredible because how I feel is being harassed by data that is only recorded by replays and defeat screens or something like that. I dunno how else you’re keeping score of wins and losses otherwise.

As to why there is rigged matchmaking, you’re gonna have to lay your reasons out flat for me one more time because I read through your statements a second time, and all I’m seeing is you telling me that it is rigged, and not the goal of rigging it. I.e. the benefit.

My thoughts on 10.7’s matchmaker are not anecdotal if most people can reach a general consensus, and if Blitz themselves has specifically wired the matchmaker that way, with written news in their feed, said so in a video, and probably has accessible code that shows you the new matchmaker’s properties. That’s proof.

These returning players that I am seeing can be transformed into numbers, too. If these loss screens were kept on record, I could have used that to study the stats of every player there, could I not? Just lay your points out flat as to who it benefits for rigged matchmaking.

[daring elm]

5k battles isn’t even enough, most players start to actually get decent at the game around 7.5k-10k battles and it’s also quite common to encounter players with 20k+ battles that have no clue what they’re doing

[gleaming lotus]

"replays and defeat screens or something like that"

Dude. It says in the article the data was ported from wotinspector. The players had to submit the entire replay files. Once again, please read the article before making silly arguments. You can find the code on github https://github.com/Jylpah/blitz-replays

"As to why there is rigged matchmaking, you’re gonna have to lay your reasons out flat for me one more time because I read through your statements a second time, and all I’m seeing is you telling me that it is rigged, and not the goal of rigging it. I.e. the benefit."

A testing ground for SBMM is one, of which the reasons for adding SBMM need not be argued because they confirmed adding it. Another would be to make gameplay more enjoyable for the majority of the playerbase at the expense of skilled players.

"most people can reach a general consensus"

The general consensus is that it was infact rigged and that the analysis is solid. You are against the consensus by claiming that a reputable source would arbitrarily fake a study for no reason.

@sullen lindenYour argument is that stats are the only thing that matters. Why is enjoyment not an argument? Isn't that the primary reason to play a game? Losing due to rigged MM is not enjoyable. Losing in general is not enjoyable. Not to mention, players play gamemodes to grind exp very often. In which case losing due to rigged MM does in fact affect you by making your grind needlessly long.

[sullen linden]

i dont think thats the problem here. gamemodes dont affect your stats at all so it doesnt matter if you lose or not. the real problem is regular mode being messed up.

[edgy pewter]

FWIW, the dev’s are known for saying little or nothing about how they conduct internal tests, and rarely say anything about their long term plans. There was, however, discussion on the EU forum about conducting the analysis. Players volunteered to contribute replay files and even to help with the study. As I recall the attitude was a healthy skepticism and interest in developing some real evidence regardless of the outcome.

[pseudo crescent]

Thanks for that. I didn’t say they rigged it for no reason. I said whatever reason they did have was unclear.

I’m glad we’re getting somewhere because I was on the money about replays. That’s great news because now I know for sure there is few other methods to get this information, meaning, Blitz Analysis isn’t as powerful as I thought they were.

A testing ground for SBMM could have been done in private servers that Blitz devs etc made for themselves? You do know they can do that, right? In fact, you do know that it’s quite common, too, right? That’s why testing servers was born for experienced/specific clans to test new tanks in. WG realized they weren’t the best at this, so they made an outlet for people to test it for them. Does WG always listen? No. Why would SBMM be any different? You pick modes of all the places you have at your disposal, to test SBMM, implement SBMM not in fun modes, but regular, and call it a day??

I’m still not convinced.

[gleaming lotus]

Why test new tanks in the real servers then? Testing servers are extremely limited and do not at all mirror the diversity of the actual server.

"That’s great news because now I know for sure there is few other methods to get this information, meaning, Blitz Analysis isn’t as powerful as I thought they were."

Not sure what you're tryign to say here. This is just proof that they have the means to efficiently and accurately consolidate data from thousands of replays.

"You pick modes of all the places you have at your disposal, to test SBMM, implement SBMM not in fun modes, but regular, and call it a day?? "

Testing in pubs which affect stats would be enormously stupid.

[gaunt trellis]

The point of rigging fun modes was trying to test it out there. There's no other way to test it. Super testers a few dozen with maybe a couple dozen battles

[pseudo crescent]

What I’m happy about is it means I can do it, too. The data consolidation thing. I don’t need to be a part of Blitz analysis or in any special type of know to do so.

The reason you’d be testing a tank in real servers is to me, to get real results. Of course, very few people like this except the people devouring enemies in their brand new vehicle nobody’s allowed to use but them.

Testing a change in one of the core mechanics of Blitz in pub matches is necessary. If I was a company, stats mean absolutely nothing to me when I make a change of this scale.
Even if it did matter, it certainly affects stats now, does it not? Every experienced player is dead in the water because no matter how hard they try, they will not get good teams. This is why it would have been far more credible to me if Blitz Analysis did not run their experiment in fun modes.

[gleaming lotus]

"This is why it would have been far more credible to me if Blitz Analysis did not run their experiment in fun modes."

No, they ran it in pubs as well. And proved that while mad games were rigged, pubs were not.

[pseudo crescent]

Ok- you know what, sure. Mad Games is rigged. I’m no longer serious about this discussion because that was very funny.

Is Mad Games rigged today? No, Blitz said so themselves that fun modes remain random, so maybe you’re right. Maybe it was covert ops this whole time in Mad Games.

Thank you, Iron, for your time, I will now go do something else.

[bronze quarry]

remember server merger

[halcyon gale]

Thanks, I much appreciate.

[tight wadi]

Gg mm 💩

[halcyon gale]

damn, what u using for ?

[tight wadi]

They infected me. I will become like them. I take a heavy or light tank and become in a high place and a skilled sniper.🥲

[halcyon gale]

good tho

[tight wadi]

Throughout the battle he was trying to climb the hill until the battle ended

[halcyon gale]

🤣🤣

[tight wadi]

🤣😂ofc

[halcyon gale]

where u from ? I'm from eg

[primal acorn]

WG how can we get more coins to finish Draw ??? ( streams end )

[spark crow]

you can't

[halcyon gale]

How much used ?

[primal acorn]

Watched all Streams and got max coins but still not enough to finish draw

[halcyon gale]

oooo, u hit that 🤘

[tight phoenix]

They will probably sell the coins for gold or money

[gaunt phoenix]

Same here

[tardy isle]

Same here, I am not able to finish it...

[raven burrow]

wait a minute, how did you manage to get 300 more coins

[primal acorn]

win on Manu stream on youtube was giveaway

[raven burrow]

😉 k

[violet tiger]

？

[midnight spindle]

When are you going to put the Tanks Defenders promotion

[loud brook]

better snatch that Def Mk.1 or Amx Def when they arrive

[stuck brook]

How can you screw this game up so badly

[wispy glacier]

Wargaming, I have an amazing idea,
1: give everyone that damn battlepass quest
2: fix the chat
3: put the fun modes in training rooms so there more fun, people wanna experiment without being killed yk

[patent shell]

should I change internet provider just for this game?

[tight wadi]

👍🤣

[rich ore]

I'd rephrase that. Wargaming I have a absolutely horrible idea. 1, don't give everyone the battlepass quest
2, Don't fix the chat
3, Don put fun modes in training rooms.

Why?

Cause wg does the opposite of what they're told..

[proven gulch]

Both the blue and gray counters are going up on my stream, but the gray one is going up faster. It also keeps flashing something is wrong during the stream in the background...

[native scroll]

The stream for the tournament keeps resetting to 0. What do I do?

[hidden rover]

Help stream only counts on the white timer in signed in and everything
And keeps resetting to 0 too

[hard lion]

rewards is not working for stream

[wispy thistle]

Does anyone have problems to get the rewards on stream?

[exotic barn]

Yes

[finite birch]

Its bugged, not working no matter what I do

[normal fulcrum]

Yes they only come on for 2 seconds then stop

[proven gulch]

You can see in this clip BOTH counters are going up.

[fading heron]

Fix the stream @echo crater if possible

[wispy thistle]

The same thing is hapening to me

[hidden rover]

Now it’s already 10 minutes past so we can’t get em all either way :/

[normal fulcrum]

Might have fixed itself? Hope they add 15 minutes to the end

[finite birch]

Seems to be working now

[proven gulch]

Nope, both are still counting up

Had to do a RELOAD on the stream!

[fading heron]

yes or yes we should be rewarded if we do not manage to obtain the full rewards

[exotic barn]

Reload the page, the stream is fixed

[fading heron]

also..

[unreal fossil]

12 minutes dang

[finite birch]

34_ just said on his stream WG will add 15 mins to our stream rewards to cover the problems. 😸

[minor cairn]

The matchmaker...

[fading heron]

I hope so

[past crag]

300 000 000

[tiny crater]

Can you spare 50m lmao or 10

[unreal fossil]

holy

[pulsar oyster]

The fk stream 3am not like before 4am

[gaunt trellis]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/721045171034259549/1216569848360865822/image.png?ex=6600ddf6&is=65ee68f6&hm=8279118945973c4916d05db2072dac2605994e33824fd335a52ce90d16a7355c&
THis is HRF"s win/losses from his stream. Reminder he is like a 73% player

[gleaming lotus]

Looks like @sharp yoke is feeling it today as well

[gaunt trellis]

what is his channel?

[gleaming lotus]

https://www.blitzstars.com/player/com/mjgamer55

https://www.blitzstars.com/player/eu/WayToSucces

Both mjgamer and ufpnjh are 3k+ superunis that, in addition to fatness, I've observed to be sub 50 wr today

[gaunt trellis]

Yeah its sad how stupid this is, no point in trying harder if you play for winning

[gleaming lotus]

ufpnjh has a 77.7 career winrate and 5.7k career wn8 and he can't even get 50 wr LOLOO

[unreal fossil]

wait for the extra 15 minutes stream do you have to refesh to to get the minutes

bc im in stream and it says from 6:00 to 8:00 still

[sharp yoke]

indeed i am

[gaunt trellis]

I bet you had fun stepping up to this challenge of trying to carry knuckle draggers

[midnight spindle]

That 7 straight loss tho. WG encouraging skilled players to become trolls

[gleaming lotus]

i quit pubs months ago and i have no plans of coming back to them

[hidden rover]

So if I watched until the end of the stream and had 11 minutes of unwatched time from when it didn’t work they’ll fix that?

[golden plaza]

great watched the whole live stream and shorted 45

[torn drift]

Lets Use WN8, unlile WR which is trivial unless compared to the server, WN8 is already comparing your peformance to other players on the same tank.

[unreal fossil]

same thing happened to me bc i wasnt sure if i should reload bc of the extra 15 minutes

[exotic barn]

Yes, 11 min for lose 45 fancoins

[gritty trail]

Players should be rewarded for playing above their skill level, not punished.

The biggest problem with this change is that it makes pubs more competitive and less casual. Now I havent read extensively into this change but a system that matches better plays with other better players will end up causing the game to become much more like another unspecified vehicle game. I think Blitz does so well because it’s relatively easy to pick up, play a few games, and then call it quits. While I applaud wargaming for trying to fix the matchmaking, I simply think the reason this game excels its randomness of matchmaking and ease of understanding. I have more hours then id like to admit on this game, and Ive played semi competitively in the past, so I can’t really comment on what a casual player feels like to a perfect degree, but I feel like making a 60% average out at 50% will only cause frustration.

[daring elm]

He's just a bad player smh, man needs to lose all that Fatness, hit the gym and not be a basement dweller 🗣️

[gritty trail]

Ong just remove tanks would fix all the balancing issues

[vestal harness]

Hi, i just wanna ask the devs if i can somehow apply or be a part of blitz testers ?

[ripe python]

Why not classify matchmaking, so there are no more game-breakers in the battles of the average gamer?

Please stop these useless events while the game play is so annoying. There has never been an update that has made game play as bad as it is now.

[viscid loom]

matchmaking go brrr

on canal btw

[edgy pewter]

see #open-test-general-info

[torn drift]

What's the punishment? I am having the same stats in the recent days, probably could have better numbers as I was grinding a 75% crew BZ-68. Yes matches are a bit more competitive but why should that be bad. I am honestly seeing A LOT of stat padders being farmed by actual good players. Stat padders don't really learn the game as others do so the moment they face 1-3 decent players they fail to perform. Those stat padders are guaranteeing Ls to the team because they are not on the level of more balanced great players. Maybe the MM should gage recent stats instead of the whole career to handle those cases.

The extreme outliers (+70%) are getting bad teams but that is probably caused by their extremely high stats. Normal 60%ers are not suffering as much or at all.

[warm dome]

It's nice to have unskilled players get better at the game due to the matchmaking, the problem is that it's basically tying a concrete-block of a team to more skilled players, who are trying to keep their winrate afloat. It just seems like they want everyone to be 50%, which is nice for less experienced players, but just disrespectful to those who have actually put time into learning and getting their winrate up above the avrg.
The teams which I play with almost seem like they deliberately want to loose, they either stay in spawn or drive into the open in front of several enemies. It's not like that's 1 out of 15 games, it happens almost every single game. My Kpz 07Rh is getting 35% wr over 15 games while doing ~2k+ on avrg for example. Same with every other tank I try to play, my career stats are about 59.7% wr over 24k battles with about 1.9k avrg. =/

[spark crow]

The Poll Linked Here

[sonic sundial]

They wont do anything about it right now. They even said maybe not even the next update

[spark crow]

well, that doesn't stop us from complaining still

[sonic sundial]

Yea ofcourse but in other words… they dont care lol

[meager hull]

“I am having the same stats in the recent days” if your stats aren’t changing for good or for worse than either your an anomaly and should be grateful for that or you were already a near 50% player and weren’t designed to be targeted by the mm change. Also rigging battles to make players loose isn’t “more competitive”. You aren’t supposed to win that’s the point

[boreal bear]

but no gold, rip

[thorn fog]

the worst possible update they can bring into wotb lmao, being punished for being too good

[west zinc]

while the average players prosper and the good players suffers ahh truly a great update for the game

[jolly topaz]

Have they said anything about the MM?
Like they will change some factors or not?

[thorn fog]

nice MM, good job wg

[limber swallow]

Smartly counted coins, despite obtaining the maximum amount of coins, it was not possible to draw the main prize

[boreal bear]

nothing new afaik

[boreal bear]

it was calculated like this. it's on purpose

[shadow jetty]

Why do I have to play alone now with only 40WR in the team I can't play nice battles alone nice MM

this is stats 40wr players xd MM by wg

[stiff ember]

My All Time WR is 55%. 90 Day WR was 60%. Since new MM I do 49-50% WR. I stopped playing Regular Battles 3 days ago. WG bring back old MM!

[midnight spindle]

play all Rank and Modus

[wintry solstice]

Ufpnjh's wr after skill based mm. It's clear that the new mm is unfair and bad, specially for the better players

https://www.youtube.com/post/UgkxU9Vsb9Ar8I-Z7JiIFHth35i4IKLEBNAj

[tacit hinge]

Yeah Wargaming you made a „better Matchmaking“ Its so dumb and annoying to play with noobs all i wanted was fair amount of td,light,… on each side but NOPE u made it WORSE!!!

[proven gulch]

You can see above, I was the one who posted the video of the stream counters not working right at the beginning of the stream. I watched the entire stream, but did not receive full rewards because of the website mistake:

[static roost]

Sad

[sour kelp]

Neh wg not gonna listen to u :v

[rustic echo]

For top players a reroll is in order. They will abandon their interest in their old wr. It will be quit or start over using the new mm. I think they will start over, although it's painful brain shock to abandon wr i'm sure. A new measure of greatness will be uncovered but for now reroll asap to maintain sanity.

[full arch]

Well pages in general this time was a mess..all 4 times

[wispy glacier]

Whens the free battlepass quest. I'm not letting it go, I will get my free battlepass

[lunar trail]

^

[thin dove]

Also, the queue times are very long now, I couldn’t finish my missions in time because in have to sit 1 to 2 minutes in queue between every match

[gusty plover]

<@&481447501690568709>

[midnight spindle]

I Like at xD

[thin dove]

Yep, just get robbed of my last mission because I had to sit 3 minutes in queue and couldn’t win a last match

[torn drift]

A little malding arent we? It is not about "you arent supposed to win" (unless they lied on the notes) it is about beating the other team. Playing for damage and stat padded accounts are paying the price though, good luck.

[full arch]

You won't get , as I haven't and many others ..Basically it's wg classic of giving free stuff to select few..battlepasses,crates and even currency for the tanks

[midnight spindle]

Oh I`m waiting it too

[thin dove]

That is exactly the point of the new MM and why everyone dislikes it.
To win more you should get better, not have the mm hold your hand and make other players carry you

[meager hull]

Yeah saying we fixed the match maker and then put the best players on intentionally worse teams. What’s your point wargaming should actively decide which team wins before the game even starts. The previous system was bad but at least let good players be good and bad be bad. Unlike now where both ends of the skill spectrum will be punished to achieve 50% wins no matter how many games must be thrown.

[thin dove]

But why should good players have to carry bad players? It hardly seems fair…
A good implementation of skill based MM would be to have individual players matched and not a team average (meaning that if there is a 70% player and 6 50% players on one team, the other team gets exactly the same)

[red glacier]

Devs successfully shot themselves in the leg with this mm. LoL

[urban geode]

mr_breaker_ was banned.

[muted needle]

If I'm not mistaken, this MM is better for people between 50% and 55%

[wispy glacier]

Na cmon, then that would be unfair, they can't do that

Jimmy, we aren't talking about the mm, we are talking about the free battlepass quest

[urban geode]

kingjimmyproyt was banned.

rexodia was banned.

[minor cairn]

xd

[heady urchin]

The dude got banned for saying facts though, respect 😭

[urban geode]

111996874 was banned.

stirliky was banned.

.pandios was banned.

[loud brook]

gg.

[heady urchin]

The censorship is crazy, glad I've got to witness this conv live 🤯

[lyric thorn]

One more comment and you’re getting banned as well.

[daring elm]

Yo wth is happening lol

[modest mountain]

Who was?

[loud brook]

the names of the 5 fallens

[modest mountain]

Why didn't he get banned as well? I mean he was in the conversation looks like???

[daring elm]

Matchmaking shouldn’t be matching people on skill on random battles and instead focus on improving the rankup system for ratings instead. There’s a reason why games have a regular and ranked game mode and all the matchmaker does is make good players sweat in both just to maintain their stats

[loud brook]

nah,just spectated

[heady urchin]

Why do you want me to get banned? lmao

[turbid hearth]

First time since 2014 I deleted this game. Waiting for them to fix that. If such game is based in stats then they can’t balance players to nerf them 😂

[modest mountain]

I believe the new mm is great after all I through I was good but I learned from meh mistakes. But I watched videos played more c: then I started to win more matchies :p

@heady urchin no TwT but I wanted to know who was right?

[gusty plover]

I wouldn't say that Ratings are skill based. It's partially skill based but it's actually more a league system. And who plays a lot can get higher than others.

So it could be improved, true. But I don't have experiences with new regular matchmaking. I only saw it in the video/stream. So I can't say anything about that 😅

[heady urchin]

Well one dude was wrong and all the others were right but no need to elaborate more, its all in the past now

[modest mountain]

Nah other way around

[daring elm]

In ratings you should lose the same amount of points as you gain on a win and not gain/retain points even as top performer unless you break a certain exp threshold or something

[heady urchin]

Nah not at all, you should have read it all anyways lets not speak more about it unless you want us to get banned as well lol

[modest mountain]

Dms

[daring elm]

It’s not good at all, if you’re good at the game then you get punished by matchmaking making the game hell to play. Random battles shouldn’t be matching you based on skill and only vehicle capabilities, otherwise what’s the point of rating/ranked battles? It just makes good and top players sweat in a supposed casual game mode just to win against another good player that the matchmaking constantly pits them against and if the matchmaking cannot find a player of equal skill then it compensates by giving good players terrible teams

[modest mountain]

It's even in the article the old mm was rigged but I'm not talking about it anymore

[daring elm]

Wasn’t it just mad games and rating battles that was rigged and not random battles?

[gusty plover]

It was only about the fun mode afaik

[modest mountain]

Yeah

[iron spruce]

Old MM for randoms wasn’t rigged

[meager hull]

Yeah any idea of the old mm being rigged has been thrown out the window with what we have now

[dire kraken]

Звук в игре слете что делать?

[meager hull]

English my good man

[brittle scroll]

Есть сервер для тебя тоже: https://discord.gg/mkNtBAYcWy

[tame moon]

Anybody know when the new line (Italian) is coming to blitz?

[gusty plover]

My best guess is before Blitz birthday in June. So maybe May or June

[hidden rover]

Does anyone know when that Elefant event will start?

[sand bluff]

Friday

[hidden rover]

Thank : )
Let’s gooo I was getting kinda bored of no event since Im not doing the pass
the dune one was one of the best I’ve played

[astral forum]

Elefant from container is 2% drop chance from the container

[lone orchid]

What are u yapping about? Like pro players with 70% wr++ usually have more 20 k games. And by losing 10 games in row it will not affect at all. Stop playing the game is better advice, then start a new reroll for having more wr..

[dim beacon]

anyone know what is intel cause i got 1k and i have no idea where it went

[warm dome]

Might be the stages for the battlepass, idk

[dim beacon]

nah

[past crag]

k

[warm dome]

1000 Intel = 10 levels, the old currency for the Bps was 100 units for 1 level. One of the orders that were given out has exactly 10 levels as reward. Don't think that's a coincidence

[gusty plover]

Bro Intel is used to activate the premium battle pass. It has something to do with the code but nothing u can see in the account

Just for activation of premium pass

[lyric thorn]

You must have misunderstood it completely. And when I say completely I mean 120%.

[round pewter]

rlly massive draw are coming ?

[lyric thorn]

@lone orchid Maybe you could re-read something like this: #news-discussion message

[meager hull]

There’s no point rerolling in my eyes being forced to go 50% is just as miserable as being forced into a loss streak. The game will lose all excitement and I hate to say this but might aswell go afk as the game has engineered the match to make you lose from the start. Hot take I know but this is the hand we’ve been dealt

[loud spoke]

Why did only a handful people receive a quest for the premium pass?its not fair to the other community

[hidden rover]

You can buy it directly from the event it’s like 1 event currency for a crate 10 to directly buy elefant (the event currency you get at the end that you can collect as many of as you want)

[limpid bay]

seems like ME

[hidden rover]

Pretty much everyone can get Elefant

[limpid bay]

Finally one of most unique tank from eh ww2 aside tiger 1 and tiger 2 by PORSCHE

[hidden rover]

This event is gonna be really nice I hope I get the realistic camo too
FINALLY some historic content for once

[limpid bay]

i was bored from those hybrid tanks

[lone orchid]

????.He said they top players might start making reroll cause of losing wr on main acc, which i dont think is not gonna happened. Most top players have atleast 40k games, which means they prob spend atleast 5-6 years on that acc. And by losing some wr with this new sbmm is not gonna affect top players by making rerolls. Honestly i think top players will leave the game instead, cause if wg start making this updates again there is no reason to play this game. Wg keep doing stupid things like this, and they never learn.

[hidden rover]

The constant fake tech trees💀
With another on the way

[lyric thorn]

You said "And by losing 10 games in row it will not affect at all. Stop playing the game is better advice, then start a new reroll for having more wr." Which is simply not true, losing xyz games in a row definitely affects one's game experience, whether it's their stats or just their feelings. It's also not true that the best thing to do would be to create a reroll for having more WR since having more WR only punishes you even more.

With the leaving part I agree 👍

[limpid bay]

now they made so many it doesnt even feel unique to have one

[primal acorn]

I not gonna play Regular battles for sure until this MM not get fixed , or get back to old way , i was noob on start and ruin my acc stat , after i take serious game and fixed it on average ( not wish reroll ) but to ruin it again cuz MM .. No way !!!

[hidden rover]

We could get real tech trees with the two Swedish ones but noooo too lazy to implement the suspension
Better add a bunch of made up ones instead :/

[limpid bay]

they could have made a swedish medium tree when they added lancen

[lone orchid]

If wg are gonna stick with this SBMM, we are gonna see less 70% (but with more avg dmg), we are gonna see more 60%, but with less avg dmg. Thats my theory, cause if two 75% decide to toon, the sbmm will balance that by adding 4 60% on enemy team. And thats a huge advantage for the 60% team. While the 60% carry each other, the 75% need to carry their 40%- 50% teammates.

If we need a sbmm, it need to be put into ratings, cause rating actually needs it.

[astral forum]

I like how everyone was saying the event was p2w lol even tho it’d basically free
It’s basically the event with the T23E3 where you would have to open 10 of the containers to get jars of paint and get the tank

[hidden rover]

Yea it’s literally free
Plus I think this is the first time I’ve seen a tier 8 given for free usually it’s 7’s

[astral forum]

The only time I’ve seen them give tier 8s for free is their birthday event
Oh yeah sometimes there’s a tier 8 in the snow globe event
Were waiting for the day we get a free tier 10

[hidden rover]

Ohhh wait nvm they gave out Chrysler for Christmas not long ago
I just didn’t notice because I already had Chrysler
But a new tier 8? Unheard of

[gleaming lotus]

I notice this too in MM. One game in particular, the enemy team (lucky me) not only had 1% lower avg winrate but no less than FOUR players with sub 2k battles, 2/4 of them sub 1k while our lowest career battle count player was 9.8k or something. Laughably unbalanced. They had three zeros, sweep game

[old apex]

F2p or p2w?

[hidden rover]

Free to play
Read the instructions it says complete stages by getting mastery badges I think (you get class 3 as basically participation in the winning team as long as you didn’t do nothing so pretty much get wins)

[sand bluff]

its really hard from what i saw

[astral forum]

This new event is gonna be hell for skilled players bc of the mm
It’s so random for them to put the Churchill III in the container

[hidden rover]

As in takes long to get? Yea I guess that would make sense

[old apex]

Atleats its free gold, or tank

[sand bluff]

Yeah. The mm sucks but we will see how it goes

[hidden rover]

I’m gonna have a fun time tho being a 50%er that I would consider plays very skillfully it’s just I’ve played so many battles it’ll hardly ever move 😏
Recently it’s been much easier to get 4K damage battle games in tier 8 annihilating everything I’m having more fun in the game than I ever have
And I’ve also been trying to play more skillfully than before I used to think trying to go in and do as much damage as possible even if it meant trading shots (but I’m not a yolo-er I only did it in scenarios i outDPM them) was a way to do it

[astral forum]

Anyone know Some easy tanks to ace?

[hazy mulch]

I think the Unicums have switched to ratings big time. My battles there today were sweaty af lol.

[hidden rover]

Rn I see XM66F as my easy ace because pretty much nobody has it
…OHHHH right I just realized that’ll be perfect for this event

[astral forum]

I think I got a good tank for it from mystery container
WZ-111 premium

[loud brook]

i'd think of odd tanks
French CDA,German Kanonen...
but not the WZ111 that thing is horrid

[astral forum]

The problem is I don’t have that many really rare tanks
If someone owns the AE Phase I they complete event in 1 day

[lone orchid]

60tp and wz113

[old apex]

Chinese tanks (most) have cheap aces

[velvet raptor]

APAC server is so laggy right now. I have restarted my router and my laptop yet it is still very laggy. Please do something about it.

[sullen linden]

breh

[cobalt dew]

honestly, is update the 10.7 not the worst update ever? i don't remember anything that made me stop playing blitz temporary, except the rage attacks i occasionally (basically everyday) have

[daring elm]

There was update 3.8 with the cringe spare parts and the low tier culling of update 5.5 lol

[cobalt dew]

5.5 i remember, update 3.1 i didnt play at that moment

[sullen linden]

even tho those ones were bad the game was still playable now its completely not playable so i do think 10.7 is the worst update to ever happen

[cobalt dew]

yeah 5.5 didn't really make my veins pop

[thorn fog]

Imo this update is the worse for the upper more skillful players, they got hit the most with the new MM system. But since it technically doesn't affect all of the playerbase (except unicum players) that much, im gonna say its not the worst update in the history of blitz ever.

But still top 3 imo (since iam a unicum player this update is the worst ever imo lol)

[gleaming lotus]

Look at this MM is just had. literal 6% differential LOLOL. The TVP (42%) yoloed and tried to facehug me (badger) at the start and then the kran yoloed and tried face hugging me in a crossfire immeidately after so I was wondering what kind of scuffed MM was this

[cobalt dew]

i think yesterdat hisroyalfatness was streaming, he has a wr of like 75, but at the end of the stream he had like 50

[sullen linden]

bro the poor bz on the enemy team

[gleaming lotus]

he (rightfully so) downvoted all of them

[thorn fog]

Ive been constantly getting below my average WR too, usually 70-75%.

Nowadays its 60-65% at best, but realisticly 40-55% average

[gaunt trellis]

I mean its quite well known at this point. I dont get this idea that if you are good you can still carry your way to 60 % if you were 70% before. It simply isn't possible if your total winrate is similar to your 60/90 day average. The other team will either get an equal calibre level player, or a bunch of above average players

[cobalt dew]

did u also play platoon? i played platoon and i felt the changes more, i played the day before the update with clanmate and did 90 percent wr, after the updat it was 50
we both quit btw

[gaunt trellis]

lol yeah we going to play ratings if we play at all. Infact ratings level usually corresponded less to skill than any other measure so even if the ratings are even in reality you can still win more.

[thorn fog]

My account win rate is 76% with 5k battles, 3160 Average damage.

The way the new MM works is by making all the team total WR the same.

To face against a 76% WR the MM would need to do :

1. Face off against another 76% WR
2. Put 2 60% players on the enemy team to match me
3. Lower the overall WR of my team to match the enemy team

The way MM works now makes that you are either in a complete disadvantage or barely on par with your enemy, the higher your Stats the more punishing the MM becomes

And since it's a TEAM BASED game, the one with the better team rooster will always win the fight instead of a singular hard carry dude with a bunch of normal players

[rustic echo]

All I meant was that if top players decide to reroll, their new winrate should be ~55% which will stop tilting the % of his team really low% players. It lets him fight the enemy with better teammates. Heck yes it's a junky thing to have to do but we will start forgetting wr as an important measurement with time.

[crimson dirge]

delete player based match making, it ruined everything
i started the game, guess what i lost 50 battles in a row

[south seal]

You’re still in bot mm, no sbmm for u

[thorn fog]

Bot mm? When u need 5k battle to get new mm? Bro im at the point when im facing people with 60-80k battles with 60-70% wr lol, would be rude to call em bot bro

[south seal]

Below 5,5k battles in pubs you’re in bot mm

[muted compass]

Hello devs. Where is Fan Container? I have more than 1000 coins and can't buy anything!

[thorn fog]

got 5k battles
faces people with above 20k battles and high WR
still bot mm

Sure bud, whatever you say

[south seal]

Cant argue with that LMAO

Reject proven facts

[old apex]

Why dint some people still dint recive any fan coins? Even tho theres was past more than 5 hours

[muted compass]

why did you take the fan containers out of the store? They should have been available for purchase by the 12th

[old apex]

Cuz they want to make u addicted to gambling in draws?

[gusty plover]

ye

[daring elm]

Pretty sure his winrate was like 40%, he got so many 5k damage losses lmao

[edgy pewter]

@thorn fog @south seal

When a player is no longer being matched against bots the new player matchmaking only works when possible, so even someone near 5k may end up facing more experienced players.

On the other hand, the experience of a ~5k player may not be a good test of the new MM. New player matchmaking can inflate career winrates of more skilled players (seal clubbing). Seeing some sort of dip in winrate isn’t unusual once they are past NPMM. It may take some time for the stats to really reflect their skill level. We don’t know if the new MM will handle this transition period well or not.

[daring elm]

It’s still messed up because if they reroll then they gotta spend more money on that new account to get the premium tanks they bought on their previous account

[cobalt dew]

that's very sad

[haughty siren]

Casual play is dead. New MM is trash. To get casual play you have to use ratings. SBMM makes sense in ratings… NOT pubs.

All the joy has been blown up like my constant spawn camping and minimap ignoring teams. I’d be fine with that if the other teams were the same, but for whatever reason it’s always the red team that has the good players that push together and play like a team. Not even exaggerating here.

IDK what the goal is here for this MM, but if it was to drive players away, it’s working great.

Is there anywhere to voice my concerns, like an official place to send my feedback? Or do we just have to grin and bear it?

[grizzled sapphire]

Hi Do you know what IS the reward for the quest that WE need do 100k damage because i finish it and i receive "details"

And i don't know what IS it

[cursive crow]

wg, pls bring the luxury event.....

[hexed venture]

@grizzled sapphire the reward is that progress in tje battle pass by 10 or 15 steps, idk either pr

[grizzled sapphire]

Ok thanks

[willow rivet]

Please set a plain text readable and taggable username, no symbols, script fonts, ...

[willow rivet]

Please set a plain text readable and taggable username, no symbols, script fonts, ...

[undone pelican]

use normal letters

[cyan igloo]

how about avg dmg, avg klill, avg spot, survivability?

[radiant kernel]

You can change it for the server

[gleaming lotus]

That's not even taken into account in MM

[cyan igloo]

in the new MM is taken into account. It takes into account wr, avg dmg, avg kill, avg spot, survivability

" The matchmaking will be influenced by average damage, spotting, kills, survivability, and of course, victories."

[cyan igloo]

surveys will be sent out

[lunar trail]

i think the amount of people complaining + youtubers saying even anggael that the new mm sucks should give a hint

[gleaming lotus]

That makes it even more of a mismatch dude. Especially the different in survival rates is laughable

[cyan igloo]

but it is also necessary to collect other data than just these

[cyan igloo]

how long did you wait for the battle?

[gleaming lotus]

Almost instant queue

[ocean basalt]

I assume the Constructor camo going to be a popup offer? I've been playing it the past few days and haven't seen an offer

[cyan igloo]

I asked this because the longer one waits, the looser these rules become and it would explain such a discrepancy. And I have heard a lot of feedback from NA and APAC that the queue has grown longer

[wintry solstice]

https://www.youtube.com/post/UgkxU9Vsb9Ar8I-Z7JiIFHth35i4IKLEBNAj

[tiny crater]

Second version of rating wargaming you screwed up

[wispy glacier]

Me when groundtank

[sonic sundial]

💀

[wispy glacier]

Pardon?

[sonic sundial]

Funny like your joke

[frosty parcel]

Де монети ті заробляти? На кейси

[willow rivet]

English only please on this discord server.
If language or translating is an issue, you can join:
https://discord.gg/mkNtBAYcWy

[rustic echo]

I can not tell that the <5k rule still works. Lots of both 1k and 80k player on same team.

[south seal]

There are some occasions where the matchmaker is losened. For example when only a small amount of people is searching for a match right now. Therefore it can happen that sometimes you get people below 5,5k games and vice versa.

[rustic echo]

true

[south seal]

• meeting people below 5,5k in funmodes does not count since there is no bot mm in funmode means everybody gets matched against each other. Same when someone <5,5 is platooning with someone out of bot mm

[midnight spindle]

people I think I hacked the matchmaking

[torn drift]

Rerolls have inflated stats and are paying the prize. You leave 5k battles with an inflated wr farmed against bots and newbies. Then on normal queue you fight against 50k battles 60%ers and you get farmed.

Same for seal clubbers who have an average tier of 7 lmao. They fight tier 10.0 avg players with 60% if they dare to step on tier 10 and get farmed. Those are the ones who are really struggling as they are not as good as the other 60%ers they face.

[daring elm]

Man, it's crazy how tier 7 is considered seal clubbing now

[torn drift]

It is not the main focus of balance of WG unlike 10 that gets proplay. You cannot compare a T20 to a Smasher or even a T29.

[daring elm]

Back in the day we hop in on our Pz II J, Matilda or T18 and become impenetrable menaces or one shot noobs with the T82 or steamroll the enemy team in KV-1 platoons lol

Then again, with how dead the low tiers are they might as well not exist since the game basically has tiers 5 and up for actual gameplay nowadays

[torn drift]

If you have an avg tier of 7 you probably also play tier 6 as that is how avg behaves. Kryos/Smahser/Annhilator/Dracula stat padders are in shambles.

[midnight spindle]

on regular, during peak hours, even tier 1 moves on NA. At 2 AM PST, it's hard to get a quick game under tier 6

[hidden rover]

There’s a bunch of low tier tanks I like playing because they’re fun or tanks I really like historically so I can’t stand it when people throw the term sealclubbing when I simply want to screw around in something like T7 car

.
I also wish they would revive low tiers and actually make them tiers people would like playing the main reason I’d want that is so that we could get some iconic WW2 era tanks added to the game that it’s shocking we don’t already have,there’s a bunch of historic tanks I’d love to see added but stand no chance because WG never adds anything below tier 6 and we get a tier 6 or 7 maybe once a year
(WG please add BT-42 and Neubaufahrzeug)

[pseudo crescent]

The reason I think low tiers is unpopular is because there’s not as much diversity. It’s pretty easy to shoot tanks, penetrate, and that’s about it. Heck- there’s hardly any variety among tank types. Just medium and light tanks. Get to tier 4 for your heavies and TDs.

And that’s just it. The main goal of Blitz is to progress through the tiers, not bomb in low tiers, so fundamentally, low tiers doesn’t pique many people’s interest.

Also, if too few people like low tiers, WG doesn’t have a big incentive to add more low tier tanks.

[next perch]

Hello guys

[pseudo crescent]

Hello Heheman

[hidden rover]

Do it for the historic content

[gleaming lotus]

found another

[pseudo crescent]

You’re doing a good job, Iron. I’m sure the devs are going to have a lot of use for data like this. It’s already been said multiple times but if you like your high stats, 10.7 is not the version to play.

[hidden rover]

I would beg on my hands and knees for these tanks

[daring elm]

Low tiers are bland and dumbed down crazy after update 5.5 that the game actually starts being a game once you reach tier 5 which is literally halfway through the tiers lmao

With the amount of boosters we have the newbies also just rush past through tiers 5-8 and start to actually learn the game at tier 9 and 10 which is crazy; tiers 3-4 should be where newbies start learning the game and tiers 5-8 is where they need to know how to best apply what they learn in tier 3 and tier 4

They shouldn’t be learning how to play the game at tiers 8-10 because at that point there’s no reason to keep tiers 5 and below with how desolate it is

[hidden rover]

What do you mean I still have to wait in queue after 5 minutes trying to play a game in my tier 2 T1E6 at midnight on NA
Update:I got into a game at 6 minutes and 44 seconds

[ocean sorrel]

Good morning

[tiny crater]

My god matchmaker sucks bad

[violet temple]

Naaaaa they did fix it 😉

[pulsar oyster]

They fixed ? No wonder i had 12 win Streaks

[proven girder]

Here his recent stat is. Whatever.

[pulsar oyster]

Ah okay

[high pine]

not enought good players to do good games, thats all. In the old good times path to higher tiers was hard and did good players. They are all gone, game has been oversimplified in all his aspects. Its boring. No reverse.

[somber sparrow]

hello, will we be able to echange these avatars? that number 2 hurts my eyes tho

[lunar trail]

Can u not exchange?

[tardy isle]

Nope, you cant exchange some avatars

[gray portal]

when I sell a tank why don't I also get credits for the equipment I put when I played with it?

[torn drift]

If you buy the tank back the equipment is still there, I find that useful as after grinding every tier 10 I can rebuy the good tanks I had to sell the buy the newly researched ones. I mean it is better than spare parts lmao.

[violet temple]

There are a few avatars you can’t exchange for some reasons.. bug ???

[somber sparrow]

I don't think it's a bug

[torn drift]

Tier 8 is where you get a semblance of what tier 10 looks like. Tier 7 and certainly 6 and below is full of lightly armored vehicles with pew pew guns. This is thanks to the changes in tank design represented by the tiers (jumps from interwar to early cold war) thus they play differently. I mean tier 5 barely has heavies and they are not even remotely close to tier 10s.

It is not about learning the game there though, more about keeping the tiers fun. BUT they probably dont want many people playing low tiers, judging by patch 5.5 and the detriment that seal clubbers cause.

[gray portal]

Maybe I will never rebuy that tank..

[daring elm]

The tank diversity pre-5.5 helps give you a clue as to what each tank class do. Light tanks are fast and lightly armored vehicles, heavies heavies have thick armor, mediums are somewhere in-between and tank destroyers have big guns that do a lot of damage. Sure, mediums and heavies weren’t really fleshed out until like tier 5-6 but tank destroyers were represented well in low tiers in the form of Marder II, T82, Valentine AT and Hetzer. All of those TDs have very hard hitting guns (T82 can even one shot with an HE pen vs certain tanks) and they teach you to not sit in front of tank destroyers like an idiot and you know, not be destroyed by tank destroyers. The dominant heavies we had were DW2, KV-1 and Matilda (it was classified as medium but it’s effectively a heavy) and both the DW2 and KV-1 teach you to angle your armor to be more effective. Now the DW2’s armor can’t keep up due to penetration buffs in low tiers, KV-1’s armor got nerfed, T-150 got removed from tech tree and the T1 Heavy’s armor got insanely buffed making it a broken heavy tank that you just drive forward without much need to learn how to angle or sidescrape with it unlike the DW2 and the KV-1. Now, if you look at the low tier tech tree tanks it’s literally just one tank up until tier 4 and most of them play the same

[little pulsar]

This new mm is horrible.

[astral forum]

I like how they said they fixed it about 10 times in the video but they literally made it way worse

[drowsy grove]

The mm is trash pls bring back the old one

[undone kiln]

devious mm

[drowsy grove]

i dont play this game until the old mm is back

[hollow estuary]

Ouch, that’s ROUGH

[drowsy grove]

i lose every game

its not fun anymore

when u play and lose every round cant grind at tanks bc you lose all the time

[sacred shore]

Yes my graph looks about similar, its absolutely horrendous trying to play. What on earth was WG thinking when implementing this sbmm.

[quaint sparrow]

epic wg, i'm waiting for a tier 4 game on EU for over 10 minutes now
it's middle of a day and I SEE around 30 ppl in a tier 4 queue and still cant get a match
like, no one asked for sbmm

[cyan igloo]

for me

[topaz grotto]

sbmm has nothing to do with that

it's who the hell plays tier 4 is the issue

[fiery arrow]

People starting a new grind, people that like playing historical tanks, people that just want a change

LMG, you are part of the "noobs shouldn't play high tiers" gang too? If it's a tier that's an option in the game, then it's part of the game. Tier shaming isn't addressing the issue

[coarse pier]

Wargaming seriously needs to fix this mm now bcoz i like this game i love playing blitz & I don't want this game to die

As i believe for me the worst ever update was update 5.5 when wg decided to remove & nerf most of the lower tier tanks which just gave nubs an excuse to play higher tiers & ruin the mm🙄

[fiery arrow]

Definitely some bipolarism going on if you look at the variance between 3.8 and 5.5. In 3.8, they tried to slow down the grind for new tanks. Arguably they reverted that cos of what it was doing. But in 5.5 they literally made the grind way too easy and accessible to new players. There's a balance that has been disregarded, and all to try and get people to be more invested in the game (usually disguised as "inclusionism").

The dumbing down of the game for people too lazy or stupid to learn how to play is actually having a negative affect on the game.

[quaint sparrow]

it has - before 10.7 queue times were better even on the evenings

[loud brook]

i’ll never be able to get the elc :(

[icy shale]

wt hesh is this tank

[astral forum]

New tank in crates for 0.000000000007% drop chance and cost is 500k gold each with 200 charms

[covert coyote]

Since there is a new MM maybe make a video: "how to carry the 6 want to be team mates to win more matches" so we have a chance to win.

[shell thorn]

Did WG say how would the new MM work when everyone will be around 50% WR ?

[astral forum]

How to make people quit! (100% works)

[thin dove]

Sure is fun to play with the "fixed" mm

[astral forum]

they must be speedrunning getting rid of everyone who likes the game

[rustic echo]

too much vodka

[midnight spindle]

This matchmaking has changed, nothing is crap, garbage, they still give a pass to try to cover up the bad job of the matchmaking

[atomic marten]

I’m not sure what wargaming was thinking with the matchmaking change they could have balanced games by tank type so I don’t have to contest Castilla hill against a 121 and carro in my tier 9 e50 but instead they made fixed games a week ago if I averaged 4k damage for a day I would have a 70% to 90% wr but I’m barely hitting 60% now

[echo oak]

My question is, if I’m losing almost every game I’m playing, and everyone else is sharing the same feelings I have about the new MM, what teams are winning? It sounds like everyone is losing the same number of games I am. I worked hard to get the win rate I HAD, now I’m watching my rate drop like a rock

[atomic marten]

That’s the thing everyone is losing even 40%ers lose with this I’m not sure how a change that just forces them to win is any good if they die instantly regardless what’s the point of the change? If they wanted to improve these players they should have just made bot games for them every third game if they drop below a certain wr threshold make the bots go to good spots to teach them and would take the really bad players out of mm occasionally I’m sure there are flaws with this reasoning but it has to be better than warping the entire game around them

[midnight spindle]

today I reached my record of losses 11 in a row even though I have 57%WR as a player will have fun in a casual match if he loses 10 games in a row, I went to inspect the players on my team had a guy with 38% WR and on the enemy team minimum WR I saw was 45

[thin dove]

I’ll finish this pass as I have already bought it but until they remove the mm I’ll just stop playing

[midnight spindle]

They're so bad at doing a good job at matchmaking that they gave them a free pass to try and calm things down with this matchmaking crap

[sweet needle]

They didn't even give everyone a pass, they even suck at giving stuff away

[static roost]

Fr I play this game for 8 years and didn't even get a free pass but my new accounts i created got a pass, every Single one of them 5 new accounts with a pass but my main doesn't

[surreal wolf]

appreciate trying to fix the matchmaker and that its ~ influenced from how ratings works. using lifetime win avg is not a good comparison of player skill in a battle today. ratings doesn't use lifetime, it uses season ranking which is more reflective of current play skill.

[coarse pier]

Thank u wg finally got my dream tank

[loud brook]

it happened before
:c
wouldnt wanna see u go-
speaking of the devil

[astral forum]

wargaming can’t accept they ruined the matchmaking they delete everyth8ng about it

[glass fable]

More like, they dont care about our whining. If their internal data shows average player is spending more money on game after changes, SBMM is here to stay.

[astral forum]

it should show that everyone will quit because of this trash

[gray portal]

After a week mm is still toxic

[placid bluff]

I haven’t played in like a year, would you mind explaining what’s going on?

[gleaming lotus]

skill based mm AKA rigged MM. All the 70% players dropped to 40-50% wr instantly since they get put with teams of 40%ers against 55% enemy players

[gray portal]

no matter how well you manage to play, no matter how careful you are, you simply lose, change the tank and the same ... I lose a lot of matches in line and I noticed that the opposing team is made up of more players with a good win rate and a better average dmg than those in my team. plus I notice more and more players suffering from the herd syndrome, you simply wake up with your team in the opposite direction, you wake up alone without backup as if they don't know the map or follow the map...

[midnight spindle]

just delete the game, take a long break. until they fix this mess.

[gray portal]

I will ask for a refund premium account I don't want to play this days...

[honest plinth]

New matchmaker is worse honestly because I had a 50.78% wr but I went down ALL THE WAY to 49.88%

[gray portal]

I try to make a ticket and the player support page is still loading...

[stiff ember]

I just wrote a one star review in play store and deleted wotb from my device due to the new SBMM

[crimson mauve]

How many battles do you have in total?

[honest plinth]

1.8/1.7k

[neat ingot]

Hello. Im bobyy_2014. I didind play much :D. But i got tog >:D.

[crimson mauve]

So you have 1.8k battles in random..?
if you play solo, or in toon with another sub 5k battle player, you are only facing newer players and maybe a few bots, if there are not enough new players..
At that battle count, WR changes fast.. 🙂

[cunning tundra]

also MM didnt change for sub 5k dudes 🙂

[cursive crow]

yoo, pls fix your servers, I am in APAC( APAC has hardly any ppl, and still we get overcrowding), happens everyday at nyt time

[willow rivet]

NYT time at APAC is what? …

Could it be server reboots or something else?

[left gale]

I also like that

[cursive crow]

when the rating battles aren't available
especailly around half an hour after rating battles, the server automatically disconnects for some some......

[willow rivet]

And that still gives me no idea as to what time or how it relates to NY …

I suggest creating a support ticket on the website

[cursive crow]

ohh I now get what u were trying to say...
I think some one already answered that

[gusty plover]

I think Asia servers are in Singapore (?)

[cursive crow]

everyone faces it, and they don't care😭

[raven burrow]

I would like too

[cursive crow]

I think yes

[upbeat wind]

100k ... what a bargain

[dry crystal]

Same.

SBMM = woke idiocy.

[primal acorn]

Nice , my dream to but ... but

[gray portal]

Does EU player support works for you?

[shy bane]

I think people didn't understand MM's logic. Basically, if two players with a 60% winrate face each other, the chance of each of them winning is actually 50% in the long run, that is, both their egos will be hurt and they will both stop playing hahaha

[keen ginkgo]

Is anyone else having issues getting the premium page to load up?

[daring elm]

And the other way the matchmaker balances teams out is by giving good players the dumbest, most down horrendous teams and make them go up against decent players

[maiden dagger]

The mm is so bad it has anggael angry to a point in which I have not seen him at
He was so angry he could barely TALK bro was literally taking deep breaths in his 3 min long vid

[minor ermine]

even fatness said it's bad

[autumn sluice]

the new update really makes it a lot more painful for better players (I'm definitely not crying)

[minor ermine]

honestly they should have make this new MM only for bad player

[autumn sluice]

idk, I think how the MM was had been fine all along
just completely random - sometimes bad, sometimes good

[minor ermine]

ngl, if WG just wanted to help the player base to get better at game they just needed a better tutorial

[plucky prawn]

The MM is soo bad that anggael play wtm

[red glacier]

Old mm was not good enough for bad players..they thought they lose becouse of bad teams that they are in..and wg believed them..LOL

[minor ermine]

fact lol

we can predict the regulard mode will die and when rating is finis and fun mode is gonne the server will be empty

[inland hearth]

So everyone is mediocre by the game’s standards, why not just play ratings instead. Especially if you are in the top 20%

[autumn sluice]

because we don't want every battle to be competitive?

[inland hearth]

Skill based match making makes this the only possibility. The true joke is the name now, that being random battles lmao.

[autumn sluice]

and that really sucks...

[minor ermine]

and than game dies cuz no more player = ur account deleted so ur going to be crying too lol

[alpine blade]

I decided to start new line the servers is emty in the moment mate

[minor ermine]

looks likes u didn't understand bro it's if WG remove rating and fun modes

[alpine blade]

i undastend you mate .my point is they made damage already

[minor ermine]

true

[loud brook]

gets worse if u were trying to go for a new line but u are stuck at tier 4
my god,the waiting time.

[iron spruce]

Just use free xp

[alpine blade]

i decided to stop after 9 min waiting Devil_soul is right the game is dying slowly but dying PITY

[loud brook]

i just started playing,i don’t have an abundance of free exp 🥲
skill issue moment

[willow rivet]

always save up some freexp, for a rainy day, maybe skip a low tier

especially if you are outside the newbie queue

[hidden rover]

Alright I’m changing my mind now I’m getting all the awful teammates and getting steamrolled this sucks carrying for nothing

[midnight spindle]

Looking for teammate

[maiden dagger]

It's for the STATSSSSSSSS

[loud brook]

high avr dmg but what wahr cost

[next shore]

WG just lost me like 75 rating pts because they reset all my controls and in setting looks ok but they still shrunk. Why nubs

[jolly spruce]

I agree with the fact that they reset all the controls after update is very annoying. But I remember years ago it wasn’t like this..

[hidden rover]

Tried playing a game on my switch and I’m like AGH why are the gyro controls on?!
Who could ever play this game with the gyro controls tilting your controller to aim💀 and it’s sensitive too nah I just play joysticks only

[next shore]

After playing with the same controls in the exact spot and now I have to keep adjusting everything and lost ratings I’m super upset. Still haven’t gotten controls in right spots makes me not want to play. So I won’t now.

[abstract igloo]

This new matchmaking is worst, lose 5 Times in a row

[torn drift]

Everyone gets lose streaks

[left gale]

😋

[loud brook]

Our beloved tank destroyer,E-100!

[hazy mulch]

Seriously just play ratings guys. If you don’t sweat too much in op tanks and get too high but rather play like you would normally with fun tanks (to you) or tanks you’re grinding (with modules and crew done in fun modes ofc) you’ll have a great time in these MM doom times.

[nimble rampart]

Man I’m raising up my WR and WN8 right now. If rank mode was count to win rate I’d prefer to play it before they change the MM

[astral forum]

i can see he’s using the new TD well

[warm dome]

Even playing ratings to get points/sweat is more enjoyable than randoms for me atm 😂 Neraly at 5k now

[loud brook]

cruising in my tiger 2

[vast knot]

When luxury lounge at EU?

[warm socket]

"We fixed the MM" WG should fire the guy who did the thumbnail

[vast comet]

hi

[sacred belfry]

nah, WG should fire the guy whos idea it was to implement SBMM

[rocky ginkgo]

I think it would be crazy to add a custom tank mode and customize parameters haha ​​that's crazy

[gusty plover]

That's a very good idea! Can you elaborate?)

[rocky ginkgo]

The mode mechanism is like this: first when you click on it, you will enter custom tank mode, then you create tanks based on the chassis of tanks in technology, then attach guns and adjust damage and strength. Penetrate the way you want,.... and customize the amount of bullets in the vehicle's speed band and many more

[gusty plover]

[rocky ginkgo]

Adding that mode would be great and let you be creative :))))

[fleet marsh]

Is the support website not working for other people ? Because it is not working for me

[alpine blade]

wot blitz official work just fine

[fleet marsh]

For me it just load infinitely

[meager hull]

People still calling them bullets 💀

[warm socket]

I like your name 😂

[gusty plover]

sus

[barren drum]

new sbmm sucked

[gusty plover]

Ye must be hard for you witnessing this win streak

[thick fractal]

7 Win steak 🙂

[barren drum]

i couldn't make the whole pic but it is 11

[tall quiver]

does ratings take your actual rating into account, or is it also based on stats only?

[stone current]

You don't even have more than 5k battles...

The sbmm is only for people with more than 5k so it doesn't affect you

[meager hull]

Bro flexing in the bot lobbies

[barren drum]

it is for today, i never really had this kind of lobby until new sbmm.

[lunar trail]

bro is less than 5k with bot match making then flexes 💀 i got 7k damage in tier 7 with bot match making

[gusty plover]

You guys rerolled?

[carmine helm]

This is a perfect example of what WG doesn’t understand about their own game, because most of them don’t play it and the ones that do must be 💩 at it. Look at the misbalance between tanks in this battle I just had. Doesn’t take a genius to work out which way this was going to go.

[meager hull]

If you can’t see what’s wrong with this picture, leave the game

[lunar trail]

ages ago yeah lmao back when t29 had speed boost

[carmine helm]

I’ve just lost another 4 in a row, and 5 out of the last 7. Since the update my account is 33 net losses down (inc ups and downs) which is just ridiculous. It’s like losing 33 battles in a row.

[static perch]

Guys the new sbmm accuracy has declined severely

[carmine helm]

And another one, this is even more blatant rigging. Arguably three/four heavys on the enemy team with one genuine heavy and three heavily armoured TDs all of which can play front line. This MM is an utter joke.

[sacred belfry]

matchmaker doesn't "rig" by types. It just balances teams so that the number of tanks of one type is within +1/-1 of each other.

Your team is way faster/lighter, so you can play to that advantage.

[fervent lance]

You are one of the few players that think MM is fine

[carmine helm]

If it was encounter and only if the players are skilled enough to take advantage, and a large proportion of blitz players have trouble tying their own shoe laces! Wanna guess how the battle turned out? It was supremacy on Normandy.

[sacred belfry]

I don't think it's fine. I haven't played since they released SBMM, and I also think that the type based MM is the worst thing in the game other than SBMM. But people crying that it's "rigged" because they don't understand the way the matchmaker works, and want even TIGHTER MM restrictions is beyond stupid

[full arch]

Lol the only restriction i want is with tanks because you can expect a panther 8.8 to face a Damm chimera

[carmine helm]

I use ‘rigged’ in the context that those teams of tanks are not balanced, one team has a distinct advantage over the other. In an ideal world I’d see the map and enemy tanks and then select my tank. But I accept that random aspect of the game. But what I do think WG should ‘balance’ is tank classes, just like they did with TDs a while back. Heavy tanks are the meta right now, and heavily armoured TDs are in that meta. Having a numerical advantage in heavy tanks/heavy TDs can have a strong influence on the outcome of a battle.

[fervent lance]

MM is a joke, more like a communist model where "what's yours is mine." So everybody got level around 50%. Is it rigged? Hard to say, but WG unless I am mistaken has not been transparent about how it really works.
WG took months to remove the Sheridan missile regardless of the outcry, so I think we are on the long haul with the current MM.

[carmine helm]

You are undoubtedly correct about the long haul. But the more we moan about it the quicker they’ll get the message. That’s my 2 cents anyway.

[sacred belfry]

Type based matchmaking should be outright removed.

1. Type based matchmaking is the entire reason why entire tank classes are unbalanced. WG balances tanks based on winrate. When you only match classes against each other, it isolates balance to within a class, rather than between classes
2. Type based matchmaking destroys game variety. Blitz used to have no type based matchmaking. The gameplay was way more varied than it is now. Now its just 3 heavies going heavy side and 3 lights/meds going medium side, and whichever side wins their side first wins. No variety whatsoever.
3. Type based matchmaking already massively increases queue times. You can sit in queue for 30-40s with like 40 people in the tier you're trying to play because it slows down the matchmaker

Now maybe you like every game playing the exact same way, and want longer queue times and terrible balance. But using MM to slap bandaids on bad balance is just so detrimental to the game

[fervent lance]

Yeah sure, they got the message, all the CCs like anggael, Droodle etc are all saying that is just bad

[carmine helm]

Why do you have to call me “smoothbrain”? What does that actually mean? If you want to insult me just send me a DM and be a man about it. Done with you.

[sacred belfry]

I only implied you're a smoothbrain if you support the outcomes of type based matchmaking. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you wouldn't support stricter type based MM if you knew what it did. But if you continue to support type based MM in spite of that, then that would make you a smoothbrain

[carmine helm]

@midnight spindle hey Droodles, you often comment about the mismatch of tank types/classes on your videos, what do you think of this contributors comments regarding it? Is there too much tinkering so making it ‘boring’ matching heavy tanks/meds/lights etc with exact numbers?

[sullen linden]

Yeah bc all the skilled players stopped playing regular what did they think was going to happen

[sacred belfry]

"I want WG to ruin the game and matchmaker because I don't want WG to implement proper tank balance"

Also the fact you're an uwudles enjoyer is 😂

Type based matchmaking supporters

[cunning tundra]

u still not happy from current MM so u want to make it even more "fair and balanced" ?

[carmine helm]

I want battles that aren’t one sided steam rolls. Either for or against me. Is that fair enough?

[honest plinth]

Bruh I feel like if I win I get banished to the damn shadow realm the very next match

[gusty plover]

I think we shouldn't call each other names here. It shows bad behavior. Always treat others like you want to be treated yourself:)

[open trout]

Are we going to be given a second chance to spend our Blitz Masters coins? It doesn't make sense for coins to remain in inventory for 15 days but offers to disappear from the store the day after the event ends. 1470 fan coins remaining on my account

[carmine helm]

Thank you 👍 and I don’t see why watching a YT content producer should also be an implied insult. I watch lots of Blitz YTers because they all have something to contribute and most of them are (were) very good players. Suggesting that me watching one of them from NA server is laughable is pretty immature.

[gusty plover]

Ye shaming Droodles is not ok. And other discord members as well.

It's not ok for a Moderator to behave like that here..

[proven gulch]

He has the role "Community Helper" but it is not helpful to the community to insult people. Having a different opinion is perfectly fine. But bashing community members is not being a "Community Helper".

[carmine helm]

Absolutely, I totally respect his opinion and maybe my point of view isn’t particularly enlightened, but to resort to name calling and effectively insulting a content producer is poor.

[meager hull]

Yes we should let teams consist of 6 heavies and 1 td 🤡

[sacred belfry]

And?

[barren drum]

I mean we'll get used to it eventually, it is not like the end of the world when everyone gets the same experience lol. Everyone get 60% they're called going to a bot lobby everyone get 50% they're a being treated like a commie type thing. You'd better wishing for a teammate who understands their role rather than 4 heavies who don't have any common sense at all.

[meager hull]

Well that’s what removing type based mm would consist of. Remove sbmm nah we should remove any balancing of tank types in game. Let alone do having more high tier tanks of 1 type than the enemy team either give a massive advantage or disadvantage. We should completely remove any attempt to even out teams. Bro what are you smoking

[gusty plover]

I think he is trolling us at this point

[sacred belfry]

??
That message doesn’t even make sense. If a tank is giving one team an advantage just by having an extra one, that tank should be nerfed. Tank balance should be addressed through buffs and nerfs, not the ridiculous type based matchmaking that got us into this mess in the first place

[shy pasture]

Wg can you fix this Waterfall on medium graphic!?

[midnight spindle]

Being a TD maus is so fun after the recent update. Strongest TD ever in bush. Don't need to move at all even when being spotted

[sacred belfry]

It’s like the Smasher/Annihilator. Those tanks are still clearly unbalanced, but rather than actually fixing the problem by nerfing them, WG slapped a matchmaking bandaid on it by just matching them against each other.

[meager hull]

Bro when your team gets 2 heavies and the enemy team gets 3/4 nerfing tanks isn’t the answer. You simply have more of the meta class. We used to have very relaxed type based mm it was removed as it was garbage

[hazy mulch]

At this point I’d be quite curious to see a truly random MM. Nothing but tank tiers matched.
Sure there’d be some 7-0 but oh man the strategic diversity. Like your med light team against their td team etc.

[sacred belfry]

You know why heavies are the “meta” class right now? It’s because of type based matchmaking 💀

Type based matchmaking artificially deflates the winrate of heavies, making them appear worse than they are so WG just kept buffing them to ridiculous levels.

But yeah, keep asking for WG to make stupid matchmaker changes that make the game materially worse. This is exactly how we got skill based matchmaking

[gleaming lotus]

@sacred belfry That's not the issue. Say it's a map like yamato or dead rail. If one team gets 2 mediums while the other gets the 1, it's basically GG and free farm. There needs to be some degree of type based MM so you get teams with an even amount of heavies, meds, and tds across teams lo and it's not just that heavies are 'OP'

[meager hull]

Heavies are meta as they have armour, hp and getting towards enough dpm that meds can’t compete. Either balance the game or rework every heavy. Bro is deluded

[hazy mulch]

If on dead rail you have one less med, what exactly is keeping one of your heavies (an appropriate one) to go med side?

[sacred belfry]

The perfect example of this is Smasher/Annihilator, which matchmaker now treats as its own class. Smasher and Annihilator had 3-4% higher average winrates before they were singled out by the matchmaker. They’re still overpowered, but the average winrate stats just look slightly better.

Heavies have tons of armor, HP, and firepower now because WG keeps buffing them, but the winrate stats don’t go up purely because of type based MM. so they keep buffing them

[gleaming lotus]

In the same way that skill based MM removes the ability for skilled players to control a game, NOT having type based Mm similarly removes skill from the game because you can get wildly uneven tank matchups that aren't necessarily just oh heavy overpowered lol. There are plenty of tanks that are strong when they work with other tank roles, but then become weak when you remove the controlling factors that ensure those other roles are consistently present

[meager hull]

To rebalance every tank instead of just giving a fair distribution of tanks is just taking the long route to the same outcome. Let alone how many people get angry at tanks changing. Yes tanks should be buffed or nerfed. Iam not disputing that but reimplementing a failed system isn’t the answer

[carmine helm]

Actually I did an experiment with the Smasher a few weeks ago. I played 50 battles back to back in it. I was bottom tier 82% of the battles. Which I don’t mind because it is more than capable of holding its own against tier 8, most of the time. I have the Smasher on 4 different accounts and having conducted that experiment I would say it’s representative of the MM they all get, bottom tier the majority of the time.

[sacred belfry]

You’re bottom tier most of the time because there are way more tier 8’s in the matchmaker than tier 6’s. Tier 8 is the most played tier in the game. Tell me you don’t understand the matchmaker without telling me you don’t understand the matchmaker.

[barren drum]

"oo premium tonk should be better than all t8s"

[carmine helm]

So why are you crying about the Anni and Smasher?

[gleaming lotus]

I don't even think this is true. Mediums have been massively buffed as well. Skilled players still prefer mediums. There are more poor than skilled players. Poor players do better in heavies. Doesn't mean the tank is worse.

[sacred belfry]

???

What are you even talking about? Being able to demonstrate flexibility in a variety of different games and situations is what makes a skilled player. Using matchmaker to balance the teams is what got us skill based matchmaking, and you’re trying to defend that same concept for type based matchmaking?

[gleaming lotus]

I've already explained how not having type based MM reduces skill in the same way that having skill based MM reduces skill. Wildly uneven lineups causes you to randomly be hard countered based on lineup rather than player ability

[sacred belfry]

I’m using it as an example to show how type based matchmaking deflates the stats of a class, without actually changing the root balance problem.

Before Smasher MM, Smasher won 3-4% more. After smasher MM, it wins 3-4% less, but the actual tank stats haven’t changed.

Same story for heavies. Matching heavies against each other makes the average winrate of the class go down, even though the tanks are still strong

[gleaming lotus]

I don't know how you can come to the conclusion that each variable in a battle operates independently from each other and that you can't affect a variable by changing other variables

[gusty plover]

I think this is a fair system and should even be developed further for autoloaders, heavy armoured TDS etc

[hazy mulch]

The argument is that being « hard countered based on lineup » (eg they have more heavies we dead) is a problem with class balance - that would have to be corrected if there was truly random mm. And that it would be a good thing.

[sacred belfry]

You didn’t explain it at all. You’re just making random broad generalizations that have no relation to your claim.

Without type based MM, there is a larger number of battle scenarios, and being able to consistently win across those takes and demonstrates more skill then the current stale gameplay of “frontally brawl tanks of your class in an equal number to win the game”

[gleaming lotus]

That argument is still reliant upon the assumption that heavies are inherently 'better' than other classes which isn't even proven, he's just claiming that's the case because apparently a broken tier 7 heavy got nerfed in terms of winrate when it gets downtiered every game now lol

[gusty plover]

I would say the opposite. Too much randomness as you described it is making the battle outcome based more on the luck of good line up than actual the skill

[stiff skiff]

When will be the next event ?

[hazy mulch]

If no class is inherently better than any other then why do you want type based MM?

[sacred belfry]

If heavies are so influential that having just 1 more instantly makes the game unbalanced, then they are clearly unbalanced.

Also do you even know what the Smasher matchmaker change was? They started pairing smashers and Annihilator as against each other, treating them as their own class, like heavies or TDs

[barren drum]

They're gonna get all kinds of MM and then you get with over 2 minutes queue and people will complain again. This game isn't even as popular as wot and they need to keep the revenue flowing so every methods is either benefit only the players or only them. They'll pretty much left MM this way until 1-2 months or something to see the margin and make changes. People suddenly getting more losses than wins so they get itchy with it, but we haven't even get too used to it yet to accurately determine whether it is a good or bad implement to the game, and WG knows it.

[gleaming lotus]

No I'm claiming this "larger amount of battle scenarios" is now encompassing all the horrid matchups that are either absolutely awful to deal with or free wins handed to you. Not fun and engaging gameplay.

Also the smasher and annihilator thing is completely irrelevant because those tanks are just broken in general, you can't just extend that to an entire class LOOL

And third off, claiming that there are situations where the enemy team having the only medium/light isn't absolutely unfair is just straight up wrong too

[gusty plover]

15 march

[sacred belfry]

There shouldn’t be such thing as a “good lineup”. That’s bad tank balance, and should be addressed with balance changes, not MM bandaids

[hazy mulch]

Totally agree

[gleaming lotus]

And to elaborate on my variable point, because I guess I was being vague, what I mean is that tanks are reliant upon others to remain balanced. A tank destroyer will suck if nobody spots for it for example. Removing type based mm is just leading to the issue you claim it would fix, except now tanks like tds are getting needlessly buffed because of lineups with no lights or meds for example

[midnight spindle]

Positive is a player known for trying to climb hills in pub battles. I would not use him nor even bother arguing with him over the matchmaker, making the argument that tank classes should be aligned would make the game boring is the worst take ever especially judging that it’s already implemented on PC and you don’t even notice it, to be honest I wouldn’t bother arguing with positive because you’re never going to win. However, that is the most balanced way to make the matchmaker good without having to worry about skill based matchmaking and still keep the game fun

[gusty plover]

There are mechanics in the game that prevent that. Maps are small and mostly designed in favour of hull down heavy tanks and armoured TDS.
These are facts that you can't change that simple.

there are things that u can't change with tank balancing and for the overall fairness of the game there is some sort of tank type matchmaking necessary.

As it was necessary to remove +2/-2 matchmaking

[sacred belfry]

Both sides have 7 tanks each. If one side is has an advantage, that advantage comes because the tanks they have are better. That’s bad balance, not a matchmaker issue.

@gleaming lotus if one team has more heavies, and the other has more meds/lights, then you play around your advantage, either mobility or armor. Games can be asymmetrical, but still balanced

[proven girder]

Player skill difference must exist. But it doesnt reflect tank spec. Fair mm is just for tank picks only. Why do people keep playing regular if losing mm continues because of their high skill? It doesn't make sense

[gleaming lotus]

Wrong. Tank roles are interconnected. Tanks become over or under powered depending on teammate composition. You can't balance around that period with absolutely no control over team composition. There are too many hard set variables in the game like mobility, camo, and armor differences across tank class not to mention map design to be able to bridge that gap and ensure balance. It's an insurmountable task

[midnight spindle]

I don’t get why you guys are still arguing with positive

[carmine helm]

Thanks, appreciate the response 👍

[hazy mulch]

How far are you guys willing to take the type based MM? Not just class, but subclass (assault td etc), even subsubclass… to the point where you’re not gonna be happy if you have a e5 and the guy has a chieftain or whatever. The only satisfying end to this nitpicking is exact same tanks on both sides. Which is not happening.
So forget about it and go random.

[sacred belfry]

The idea that the game is more fun when you don’t have the exact same gameplay every match is a completely foreign idea apparently

[gleaming lotus]

As I said a million times, you are just introducing sweep games by doing that

[thin dove]

I sure am having fun in a team with 2 tier 9 heavies against a team with 3 tier 10 heavies!
Just the HP pool difference in each team is already an advantage

[gusty plover]

Bro there are things that balance adjustments can't even change. Hull down heavies will always have a upper hand on most maps because the maps are small and designed in their favour.

Matchmaking and balance adjustment aren't the same thing bro. They do different things

[midnight spindle]

This take is inherently wrong. Nobody literally nobody has said they want the exact same tanks on each matchup. All people want is the same amount of mediums, heavies and tank destroyers on each side it’s really not that complicated and it would not make the game boring yet instead of having afair matchmaker we now have a skill based matchmaker because instead of people listening to how the game should be balanced, they listen to people like positive and implement really bad ways to the game

[undone pelican]

I’d like if the MM tried to avoid situations where one team has a larger advantage due to tank type as much as it could tbh

should still exist, since you can still win those kinda games, but games where a clanless, camoless and clueless 50B player goes up against a seasoned player in something like an E5 are basically predictable what happens to said 50B, and perhaps the result of the game

[topaz grotto]

if wg focused more on tank balancing the mm would be at its peak

[proven girder]

Ironiaclly WG made mm for skill-based previously(rating battle), but why do they apply similar mechanism to regular? Even good players hardly get 60 over winrate when playing lots of rating battle in a single season. But rating battle has score to measure(even though it isn't accurate), while regular stat remains lots of near-half winrate in contrast

[sacred belfry]

So then they should be nerfed to have disadvantages in other aspects. You guys are trying to address what are fundamentally balance problems by using matchmaker as a bandaid. Same thing WG did with Annihilator and smasher

[gleaming lotus]

Positives logic is you can take puzzle pieces from two different puzzles and make them fit together. No matter how you try to arrange the pieces it's never going to work. You cant structure balance through that many variables with hard set requirements

[shy goblet]

honestly im in favor of type based matchmaking purely because 5-6 TD spam on each map was the least fun ive had playing this game, even if I was winning 60-70% of matches. removing type based matchmaking would encourage people to spam whatever type tank is most meta (namely heavies and TDs).

type based matchmaking ensures that players can play any type of tank and still have a chance to enjoy variated, competitive gameplay

[hazy mulch]

@midnight spindle I don’t know of positive’s hill climbing ways (lol) but what he’s arguing for is literally the opposite of sbmm

[shy goblet]

its also very possible to have huge differences of winrate variation with type based matchmaking

[undone pelican]

this I can agree on

triple TD should not be a thing at all

I love being unable to progress the game because a permastaring triangle!!!

[shy goblet]

i mean 4-5 heavies, mediums, or lights is nearly as toxic. there's less camping, but a lot more yoloing (lights and meds) or stalled gameplay (heavies)

[sacred belfry]

Skill based matchmaking supporters

[gleaming lotus]

Maps also for example are a hard counter to the removal of type based MM since there are definitely maps that would have a massive advantage from certain tank types regardless of any 'balance'

[proven girder]

Seriously do I have to make accurate statistic about average winrate who have positive/negative thought about mm update in this channel?

[iron spruce]

Another fix to the TD scourge is to fix maps, namely ones like dead rail where TDs can see the entire battlefield and lock down both flanks, making it the most boring bleed fest in history

[thin dove]

Except we are still in favour of nerfing over performing tanks
Both are not exclusive

[midnight spindle]

I forgot it must be really fun when you play on a map like dead rail in your tier 9 medium and you get placed up against two tier 10 mediums while you got 2 heavies and you don’t know what they’re doing. They stay on heavy side and cause you to lose I like a positive act like every single player on your team is going to understand the difference in the match that you have gotten and is going to correctly go the right way just based on tank lineup, which literally never happens, positive is essentially saying that the matches would be boring because for some reason he thinks all seven players are going to do the same thing on each team every game which is literally just nonsensical I’m gonna head off because arguing with him is literally the most useless thing you’ll ever do

[gleaming lotus]

I don't know where @sacred belfry gets the idea that maps would treat every possible lineup the same I feel like it's extremely obvious to say that that wouldnt be the case, EVEN AFTER his 'perfect balancing'

[sacred belfry]

^^^this is the correct solution. WG’s map design always puts “designated TD spots” in the spawns that do absolutely nothing, until you try to push. It doesn’t matter what tank sits in those spots, triangle or not, you can’t push.

[shy goblet]

WG will never balance tanks perfectly, even though its perfectly in their capacity to do so. id rather see tanks be "balanced" closer, but unbalanced tanks is what keeps this game alive, as far as encouraging people to spend or grind towards certain vehicles. if every vehicle was perfectly balanced, a lot of players wouldn't bother trying to get more tanks

[gusty plover]

You promote the removal of tank type based matchmaking. As we have currently one you have to bring up the arguments for it.

We all are humans and it will probably be impossible to balance out every tank in the game perfectly. Your ideas are utopian while we need pragmatic answers to actual problems

[topaz grotto]

what I'd like wg to do is balance tanks at the right tier at the perfect class

you don't see 2 t10 mediums against 1 t9 medium

I dont mind the tanks but I'd mind that 2 t10 meds fight 2 t10 meds

they could implement a bit of code so the heaviums don't fight superheavys depending on what we all want

no 50b vs maus
no e6 vs is7

[hazy mulch]

Do you see how this ^^ never stops until exact same tanks on both sides?

[gleaming lotus]

@sacred belfry really wants an omnipotent power to come down from the heavens and rework every single map from the ground up so that tank class has no impact on what advantages you can get on a map, nevermind that that also waters down the gameplay completely 💀💀

[shy goblet]

i just want people to try 6 TDs on each team and then revisit the argument to remove type based MM. id personally like to see stronger type based MM: instead of balancing each type of tank, break it down into sub categories so that Grilles aren't matched against E3's and 268/4's or Mauses aren't matched against 50B's. there's massive differences between many tanks in each type and honestly, I don't think MM does a good enough job balancing a tank's role vs their type

[topaz grotto]

oh not to mention one team gets all assault tds and the other team gets like 2 183s 💀

[midnight spindle]

Fully agree have been saying this for years it won’t ever happen though

[shy goblet]

🤝

[sacred belfry]

They just want the entire game to be hulldown brawl of equal numbers on both sides. I don’t think they realize symmetrical lineups disproportionately benefit armored tanks. If you play non armored tanks, you literally do not have openings to exploit if there is no clear advantage

[iron spruce]

^^^ this and reworking maps so no one tank can lock down an entire flank (dead rail)

[gleaming lotus]

only in comp where there actually are organized teams not in actual gameplay

[gusty plover]

Ye exactly what I proposed to Mr. Positive before.
Totally agree

[topaz grotto]

wg should just ban the afks and yoloers or place them in their own lobby and keep the actual smart dudes in their own lobby
no leo 1 yoloing ruining the team
no afk from the start making it a 6v7

wg should just remove this new sbmm and bring back the old one but give the noobs a queue for themselves
instead of just basing it off of stats which dont say anything

and they should just focus more on the tank balancing

the players were only a fraction of the issue, the tank balancing was 90% of the issue

[proven girder]

I think low skilled players don't know how to measure pick difference, map characteristics, finally make a decision about action brings high probability to win well. Finally, it results in winrate of player. But if skill-based mm(just make average same) applied? Yes, winning probabiliy dramatically decreases because most of team choose wrong way.
This is 7v7 pvp game, so there must not be any disadvantage because of high winrate. And this is why low winrate players have positive opinions about mm update because they can win more than pre-update

[midnight spindle]

I think it’s really fair that my team gets 2 183s and the enemy team gets like a badger and a WZ 113 GFT

[hazy mulch]

The Uber-detailed subsubclass type based MM you guys want would be not only controversial and never satisfactory to anybody in its implémentation (not right subclass or not enough detail in subclasses etc) but a lot of work for WG.
Truly random is like 10 lines of code.
Maybe just try it eh. Can’t be worse than what we have.

[shy goblet]

removing type based MM would only work if there's a much larger population in each battle, with much bigger maps. WoT PC would probably support it much better. with there only being 7 tanks in Blitz and smaller maps, a slight imbalance can massively sway the result of a match. i see a lot more loopsided losses or wins with no type based MM.

with a stronger type based MM, I see a much smaller chance for domino effect matches or blowouts, yet still allowing skilled players the ability to impact a match and average high winrate and damage, regardless of the tank they're playing

[topaz grotto]

funny how everyone agrees the old mm was better than the new one

the only thing we needed was tank balancing

[pure vale]

there are not even enough players in que to do sub class mm. the most fair way would be class

[tall quiver]

there are definitely enough grille players

[topaz grotto]

if wg just codes it for all teams to have the same amount of class ex. 2 tds 2 tds

and makes then balanced so it isn't 2 183s vs 2 e4s then the tank balancing part would be perfect
what they need to do to the players is punish the yoloers and afkers more

[faint meadow]

Can we just go back to old MM current MM is just painful to play

[pure vale]

and wait 5 mins a game for other 12 same sub class players?

[sacred belfry]

Stronger type based MM would lead to more blowouts. You need asymmetry to prevent blowouts because asymmetry gives one side an advantage to allow them to come back from an initial disadvantage. If teams are purely equal, and your armored tank on one side is a 40%er, it’s a guranteed blowout. You have no hope of recovery

[gleaming lotus]

Ok explain to me how giving one team two high dpm mediums while the other has no mediums or lights doesn't result in a blowout in a pub match

[topaz grotto]

if wg actually just gave time and thought to what we all say and what the players want to the mm the game would be just perfect

but yk

wg is only money greedy and never cared about their players

funny how they say they fixed the mm to our liking yet they made it the complete opposite

[shy goblet]

you're not taking into account when asymmetry causes one side to have an initial disadvantage in the first place. that theory only works with a larger population

[sacred belfry]

The other side has 2 extra heavy tanks? One side plays around their armor advantage, and the other tries to use mobility. It’s still anyone’s game.

[gleaming lotus]

This is pubs not comp. And no lets say the other side has two extra tds instead of two extra heavies since anything is possible 🙂More realistically your team camps and gets farmed out. You just can't comprehend that teams don't operate like comp players for some reason.

[sacred belfry]

It’s not clear cut though. If you have an advantage in one area, it means that you’re disadvantaged in some other area. The team that plays to their strength better will win.

If you balance the classes, any small disadvantage is magnified. And player population shouldn’t matter, it’s still 7v7

[shy goblet]

with random teams having close to 0 form of communication or teamwork, its pretty unreasonable to expect asymmetrically matched teams to somehow form a stronger cohesion when down a tank and make the adjustment necessary to even the score

[proven gulch]

We have seen that Blitz supports 10v10 and the devices did not have an issue. I'd like to see the 7v7 format expanded (I'm thinking 9v9 would be good). An AFK or a YOLOer is not as detrimental when there are more tanks. Differences in lineup would not be as critical because there is more opportunity for each team to have tanks from all classes represented. I also believe nerfing spotting range on TDs and Heavies would increase LT play (make them more relevant). A better mix of the 4 classes we see would be a result and the game play would be more varied and depend less on meta tanks and the skills of just a few players.

[shy goblet]

the only thing we can rely on is making the teams as even as possible from the start without meddling with the skill of the players in each tank

[gleaming lotus]

@sacred belfry still waiting to hear how a lineup with 5 heavies and 2 tds works against a 5 heavy 2 medium tank lineup (lets hear the omnipotent balancing skills)

[sacred belfry]

You play more defensively? And also, there’s nothing stopping heavies from playing like pseudo meds. There’s a lot of heavies out there that just thrash mediums

[shy goblet]

i mean in theory, any asymmetrically matched lineup can have a chance, but this isn't chess. this is 7 strangers coming together for a few minutes with radically different skill levels, knowledge of the game, and regard for the result of the match

[gleaming lotus]

Why would your teammates play more defensively? Lol?? Why does everyone in your mind play like a 60% player and not what the actual playerbase is like

[pure vale]

exactly most of player have single braincell

[sacred belfry]

It takes a lot less skill to play defensively. All my 52%er teammates are interested in is sitting back and staring at walls. If anything, the team with the mediums is disadvantaged

[gleaming lotus]

If they sit back they're getting crossfired out or losing to cap, not holding and winning against mediums that fully outspot them and have terrain advantage lol. I'm sure you're smart enough to realize you're just reaching at this point.

[sacred belfry]

That chance is what prevents steamrolls. When the assymetry works, you prevent a steamroll. Steamrolls is the expected outcome. You cannot prevent a steamroll without assymetry.

[gleaming lotus]

Asymmetry allows steamrolls more than it prevents steamrolls and I've already explained how that's the case

[gusty plover]

Wouldn't it be an imbalance if some had a lot of armour and some didn't ?

It's noble to try to reach perfect balance but it's not doable, especially with small blitz maps

[hazy mulch]

WG, a suggestion. Try Full Random (only tank tiers matched) as a temporary fun mode. Really little coding. Market for « anything can happen » chaos.
See what happens.

[sacred belfry]

Yes, but you also haven’t realized that symmetry causes steamrolls. If you have a symmetrical game, it is 100% guranteed to be a steamroll. Like trying to balance a pencil upright. Once a small random action causes the pencil to begin to tip, there is nothing preventing it from falling faster and faster.

Are there going to be asymmetrical games that are steamrolls? Yes. Is it fewer steamrolls than perfect symmetry? Also yes

[gusty plover]

MS-1 with Maus Platoon would be funny

[sacred belfry]

It’s not even chaos. It’s just more fun. There used to be no type based matchmaking, and it was totally fine. Better than it is now actually

[gleaming lotus]

Lmao? Your analogy makes no sense. You assume sudden collapse when in practice that's not the case. How then is your unbalanced teams not the same pencil but unevenly weighted so it tips even faster

[meager hull]

Yeah given wargaming won’t nerf premiums you can’t just allow anything and everything

[shy goblet]

Pos's analogy only makes sense if players continue doing the exact same things that led them to having the first disadvantage

even the less skilled player will not peek the corner after being hit multiple times when peeking

[pure vale]

they are nerfing them by changing to collectors

[gleaming lotus]

Even then I'd argue that it's a slow collapse rather than a fast one, giving you ample time to make a game changing play in many cases whereas with unbalanced teams that collapse would be fast and sudden

[shy goblet]

and discounts the chance that the winning team will not make a mistake that relinquishs their lead by being overconfident

[sacred belfry]

It’s an RNG based game. The reality is that one team will take an advantage. There is no universe where both teams take damage at the exact same rate the entire game.

What will happen is one guy will lose a trade or two, become a liability, and then the situation will rapidly decay from there when it results in his team losing that side, and then losing the positioning, and the game

[meager hull]

We mean actual nerfs, plus changing 5 tanks a time will take forever. Let alone the backlash like the bbq being nerfed

[shy goblet]

yeah id personally rather have a slow collaspe because skilled players can singlehandly come back from a deficit with enough time

like in general, if my teammates can just stall and not die in the first three minutes, i'll figure out a way to win most games even if they did bleed a little more than the enemy in that time

but if the team is rolled over in the first minute or two, ive got 0 chance

[sacred belfry]

Right - you can only come back through some form of assymetry. In this case it’s assymetry in terms of skill. But the inherent problem with relying on skill to create that assymetry is that having a skilled player inherently means that you’re more likely to be the side the takes the early advantage, thus leaving the enemy team with no way to come back without tank assymetry.

[shy goblet]

that's more or less their problem though

like, sucks for them if my team is stronger through our skill

that's how it is

[gleaming lotus]

That is why I originally said that removing tank based Mm is the same as adding skill based Mm. you're just balancing against skill. That was the very first comment i made

[shy goblet]

an argument could be made that they just need to simply adjust and coordinate

[sacred belfry]

My interest is purely in game variety. I like playing left click simulator as much as anyone else, but I don’t want every game to unfold the exact same way.

It’s simply not fun when EVERY game is the same. I take an early advantage by out-brawling the other guy, then I take my side, then I win the game in a steamroll

[meager hull]

Yeah or random players with controlled tanks. Nothing screams fun like going yeah my team has an instant disadvantage in numbers for 1 side of the map and therefore not being able to push it. Don’t know how many times I have to say it but this system used to exist and got toned down and even now the worst match ups you get are when one side has an instant disadvantage. No hame will be the same. Just like right now some games are similar but not the same, plus with less type matching who’s to say games won’t be the same after you read the line up at the start.

[shy goblet]

we should just have a RNG bomb that falls from the sky and takes out a random tank every minute then. that'll create asymmetry

[wraith phoenix]

I'm wondering, was there really not even one single person that made the point "Guys maybe we should think this new mm through a lil bit more?"

[shy goblet]

statistically in the long run, you won't be affected more or less by it, but it will create assymetry!

[gleaming lotus]

I don't get why @sacred belfry thinks that a push taking advantage of the unbalanced MM wouldn't be far more fast, crushing, and onesided than with it, making it impossible to come back and win. It would quickly grow old as a skilled player on the receiving end to have your team instantly stomped by matchup hard counter (which we've already proved WOULD exist regardless of balancing)

[sacred belfry]

My goal isn’t just assymetry. It’s fun. Assymetry is more fun than the exact same game every time. Random tank dying is assymetry without the fun

[shy goblet]

wouldn’t it be fun if you’re down a tank and then suddenly you’re back in it?

it just depends on perspective

obviously, im not actually advocating for such a thing

[gaunt trellis]

I actually hate games which are like 5 meds/lights. Super unfun to play

[gleaming lotus]

yeah too many and you've got yolo plays

[cyan igloo]

I believe that BiNu conveyed what I tried to convey at the weekend

[gaunt trellis]

Honestly im still trying to find out. On Average sbmm should help bad players but do they actually notice it enough?

[devout pelican]

‘The aim of the new Matchmaker is not to punish Unicums and skilled players’ thats the only thing what its doing tho

[dull mural]

So much hurt and crushed dreams around here 😂, I’d definitely support much more random matchups, throw 5 heaves+2 tds vs 4 meds and 3 lights if that’s how the dice fall.
Win/lose, pfff, but the fun of working out how to counter a pile of hp with mobility and dom

[devout pelican]

i dont understand how a multi million game developer can overlook this massive flaw before even implementing this system and needs data and feedback to correct something which could have been prevented so easily

[clear ginkgo]

I want WG to pay me with gold for me being their new MM lab rat

[tropic gyro]

is anyone also suffer from consistent packet loss? i got 15% loss every game, not to mention disconnection that happens from time to time

[gleaming lotus]

doesn't work that way bud. a single player can't rally a team in a pub match

[clear ginkgo]

WG doesnt want to waste money on hiring knowledgeable people who would make simulation with new MM and theorize about the consequences. They just decided to make us lab rats because it s easier

[devout pelican]

you dont need knowledgable people to see how many issues this system has

[tardy isle]

#game-status-upd message

The aim of the new Matchmaker is not to punish Unicums and skilled players but to create fairer and more equal matches for all players.
Well, so far that is the only thing, which is new Matchmaker doing properly (punishing Unicums and skilled players). I don't see longer battles "as promised".

[dull mural]

Nah, it’s all down to statistical chance. Every player influences the outcome, throw the dice enough times and it will separate the better players from the less fortunate ones.
Nobody wins all the time, but give it large enough sample and the difference becomes obvious

[clear ginkgo]

you do need mathematicians who will make the MM balanced. To uphold fairness in an algorithm aaaaa lot of different stuff has to be accounted for mathemqtically

[forest aurora]

i love the fact that every kids crying cuz math too hard but look at this it's needed everywhere !

[devout pelican]

not at all, it only takes 5 seconds of thinking to realize that this system will be problematic

[jolly topaz]

Everyone 50% wr now!!
30% afk, 50% player, 70% everyone gonna have same 50% wr!!

What's the point of gathering statistics while no 60% players play now

[hazy mulch]

Random is zero math needed, zero panel, zero consultation of experts or whatever, (almost) zero coding, easiest thing in the world.
There I fixed it for you wg. For free.

[dull mural]

I hope you realise you just contradicted yourself, the more you twiddle with the MM to make it more “fair” the more you punish the ones who actually take time to learn the game thus making it less fair.
The best system is one closest to pure randomness

[tame sparrow]

I am so curious about do they know the "roll back"?

[clear ginkgo]

No, fairness can also be defined mathematically. Then you just assess the fairness of a particular MM. Fairness also consists of equality and equity. It s also a complex economical market problem. It s not so simple

[dull mural]

LMAO, equality and equity in a competitive “sport”, why don’t we bind shoelaces of football players who are too quick?

[gusty plover]

I personally think the tank type based matchmaking was pretty good but needed some improvements/adjustments.

Without tank type based mm it would be fine as well I think because it averages out over time

[maiden dagger]

We gather stats so we can shame those who don't have good stats
We also need stats to make ourselves feel better #4L

[clear ginkgo]

bro what s your problem? Provide arguments please

[jolly topaz]

Just limit the max TD players in each team
Asia always 3 TDs each

*which makes the game boring and tired

[tame sparrow]

Need to make the losing team lose the credit then they will try better instead of keep shitting on spawn

[tardy isle]

Well... Imagine
Team 1

• Player 1 - 75%
• Player 2 - 50%
• Player 3 - 48%
• Player 4 - 52%
• Player 5 - 46%
• Player 6 - 49%
• Player 7 - 55%

Team 2

• Player 1 - 60%
• Player 2 - 58%
• Player 3 - 45%
• Player 4 - 61%
• Player 5 - 59%
• Player 6 - 57%
• Player 7 - 56%

Arithmetic average of teams is 53%, but if you think about it, it's not fair at all.
So yes, currently Matchmaker is designed to "Punish" Unicum and skilled players

[clear ginkgo]

they do earn less credits so they re losing credits already

[proven gulch]

Let's not forget how we got here. The previous MM would put a team with an avg WR of 58% against a team with an average WR of 45% and it would steamroll. It wasn't fun for the winners or the losers. Probably 1000 times a day players would come to this channel and say "fix MM" because of this. Players demanded more balanced teams.

We (all?) agree, the new MM isn't working. Maybe they can tune and improve it, maybe not.

[dull mural]

I’m just amused by the idea of panels of mathematicians required to mess around with “fairness” of a mm algorithm when the best game experience and fairest competition is when you allow everyone to play against everyone without prejudicing the outcome

[devout pelican]

its better to ignore 40% opinions since they are not knowledgable about the game, its like asking a politician how to solve chemical equations

[clear ginkgo]

i disagree because previous MM was random meaning that for every such a steamroll you had steamroll wins and then a lot of close games too. Randomness means fairness in a lot of dynamic games where match number is not 10 or 100 but 10000 and so on

[tame sparrow]

@clear ginkgo they even use consumables, premium amo so they are not losing credit

[tardy isle]

Problem is WN8 is tinkled of players under 5k battles. Not to mention, it's based on average of tanks, so bad tanks are easier to get better WN8.

[iron spruce]

WN8 is a worse metric to go by. An average leopard player (50% with 2k avg) could have the same wn8 as a great E100 player (60%+ with 2.5k avg). The E100 player is obviously better, but because the leopard is harder to play it has a lower wn8 bar.

[clear ginkgo]

yes I agree, but i think WG could hire one good mathematician, pay him a big chunk of money and thats it. The problem is literally not that hard

[gleaming lotus]

Not arguing that. You would have a lot more one sided blowout games where you can't make any impact on the outcome

[tardy isle]

Players are getting out of this threshold, so we have to count with them. We can't expect, they will perform as good as they used to.

[dull mural]

Auto loaders are a pain in the back, introduced to appease nabs who yolo, clip die and repeat

[maiden dagger]

I only touch pubs in 3 player platoons, but even then three 70%ers still isn't enough to counter the mm the way I want

[tardy isle]

WG, tried to solve problem of "short" battles. With this "better" matchmaker. They did not even thought about "maybe we should make larger maps" or "adding more players" - as Lesta did (10v10). Which made games longer.

[maiden dagger]

The only reason battles are short is because tds do so much dmg in such a short amount of time at the start of battles
And then autoloader clean everything up, but war gaming can't figure this out since every wg employee has a skill level on par with 30%ers

[tardy isle]

Man, 7v7 games were introduced in 2014. Think about it that is almost 10 YEARS ago. Why we are after 10 YEARS still limited to 7v7 or even funnier 5v5 (skirmish)? Hardware got WAY better.

[gusty plover]

Tomorrow the Ru servers get the 10 vs 10 game mode 🙂

[maiden dagger]

I wish there were more maps that are bigger, flat, and wide open so that light tanks have a map they can be truly useful on and so that spotting is actually worthwhile

[tardy isle]

Ik, I have account on RU. Definitelly I'll be playing there with 70ms ping, rather than here with garbage "better" matchmaking "to help" them collect their "statistics".

[dull mural]

I’d rather be grinning after a daring loss than be bored after another samey win.
blitz has become too repetitive to be interesting already

[proven gulch]

I'd like to try 10v10 on Blitz

[lunar trail]

i might try lesta games then lmao

[gusty plover]

Ye can't wait to play it

[crimson mauve]

Fun mode does not have the new MM.. there it’s just normal MM

I was only commenting on Gucci’s statement.. 🙂

[loud brook]

agreed,fun mode sure is fun
but in the end,when they aren’t active,we only have either regular or rating
and- yeah..regular feels like rating while rating feels like regular
nobody wants to feel even more heated up becuz their daily commitment to the game to be better now tarnished by sbmm

a team of single shot tank vs a team of autoloader/autoreloader

ouh lala

[jolly topaz]

I'm pretty sure it would have been a lot worse if CIS server was still part of wotb not Lesta's.
maybe this server would have exploded? Idk

[fiery arrow]

There is a strong analysis out there suggesting that fun modes do actually have the SBMM, believe it or not. Thing about fun modes is the results don't count toward anything.

Reference: https://blitzanalysiz.com/blog/2020-11-10_rigged_mad_games_mm/

[loud brook]

fun modes for fun,whether it’s dying instantly 30s into the game or turning ur tank into an intercontinental ballistic missile or seeing the heaviest tank floating/flying in gravity mode
people doesn’t hate fun modes because of that,it’s for fun (uh- idk if i can say the same for Skirmish & Realistic haha)

[ionic hazel]

I hope the skill based matchmaking "Changes" i hate carrying 40% wr on my team and enemy has 50% wr above. Every game damage i get always 3k-4k above and my team sitting below 2k damage and stealing kills.

[full arch]

Welp boys time to swap to warthunder it seems

[glass pilot]

Never before got so frustrated so quickly playing this game. Absolutely terrible, thx for ruining completely
Imagine making something bad even worse

[ionic hazel]

I wonder why wargaming not testing skill based matchmaking before it gets released. but hey thanks for ruining the old matchmaking and every players wants to quit of playing regulars because of SBMM

[woeful spade]

This analysis was done in 7.3. It‘s years from being up to date

[merry thunder]

SBBM is backstabbing to veterans and players who passionate about this game, my server is already raugh and tiring and this update is actually throwing more garbage into my face

[crimson mauve]

👍🏻
But actually as @fiery arrow says.. there might be something rotten in those “fun” modes after all.. 🤔

[coarse narwhal]

hello everyone

[brittle scroll]

i can't imagine what it's like for the 2 smaller servers. EU is still manageable due to its sheer size

[turbid dome]

Dear Developers , I'd like to kindly introduce "Million Pigs" Reward system into Blitz. 🙏

[warm dome]

I'm guessing you ment the "Million Pugs" service? 😂

[chrome bolt]

You mainly get a ton of 40%ers on your team to compensate instead of playing against 60%ers every time

[rain olive]

It matches me with a bunch of 46% or lowers on my team against a team with a ton of 52-57%ers

They basically brought training rooms into normal matches

[midnight spindle]

jo

[proven girder]

@brittle scroll look at ufpnjh stream or stat, SBMM still sucks in EU
Even super unicums got under 50 periodic wr cuz of new mm

[radiant pewter]

@golden anchor May I ask what data you’re looking for? Because the way you’re presenting the new mm it makes 0 sense to have it in random games. If anything this would be good for rating games. There was no issue with the old match maker. Yes, there were bad and good days but generaly if you’re good you’ll win more. With the new one, you’ve just created ranked 2.0 so what’s the point?

There’s a reason why WoT or Tanks Blitz are still running on the old system…..

[craggy kindle]

can someone summarise why so much criticism with this new matchmaking?

[midnight spindle]

40%ers and trolls are super unicums and the skilled players are 40%ers now

[tame zealot]

is this enough as an answer?

[tall quiver]

😬

[crimson mauve]

Because players who actually are putting an effort into learning the game to become better are punished, and players who don’t care how they perform are favored..

[craggy kindle]

i Don't quite get it, isn't this too early to judge the new mm system?

[radiant pewter]

or this, stats from ef (Since I don’t play random after the update I can’t compare mine 😄 )

[midnight spindle]

Searching for a good climbing zone during the battle or Camping in TD bush as german heavy tank, you can still have 50% chance to win or sometimes a winning streak.

[turbid dome]

😆

[tame zealot]

What do you want to wait for? It´s more then obvious from the screenshots, that unicums are now being punished for being good, therefore the MMs assigns them such teams they can´t keep carrying battles. ALL unicum players were unicums because they knew how to efficiently farm the bad players, if someone wants more skill based battles, there are rankeds or tourneys. Now we have (playstyle wise) two rankeds, which is fundamentaly wrong, bad and terrible.
Or take a look at literally ANY unicum streamer and compare their games now and week ago. It´s like they´d become 50% worse, from day to day.

[tall quiver]

2 ranked modes, except the actual ranked gamemode is easier than regular battles now, i can barely avg 2k 50wr in regs and my session in ratings today was 3.8k 84wr lol

[tame zealot]

Exactly.

[craggy kindle]

but like, yea we saw that this new mm system isn't the best and we get it, but surely this isn't permanent, even the devs i believe they're discussing about it, keep this argument going on and on isn't that necessary, well I'm nobody to say such things but i wanted to understand the situation, and also matter of fact that this update is already done, we can't just change everything with a snap of fingers, i believe we just have to wait for the next update/s to see what they need to fix, change something, or let some old parts of the MM stay, that's about it
(With all of the respect of course)

[meager hull]

They can’t admin they screwed up intentionally and don’t want to remove it so we have to do this song and dance

[tall quiver]

that is very true though, arguing about sbmm is absolutely unnecessary, wg doesn't care about what we think of sbmm anyways, it's better to think of ways to bypass it rather than complaining about it tbh

[radiant pewter]

I know, the corporate answear hints at it. But I still wanted to ask him 😄 In case he’s serious

[tall quiver]

uhh so far I've found 3 effective ways to bypass sbmm

1. ratings below 5k
2. blitz school mm, to get into this special mm you need to throw a few games in a row
3. making alts, since players below 5k battles are unaffected by the new mm
   happy fragging, and happy blitzing 😎

[meager hull]

Good luck then🤞they’ll be told to avoid this like the plaque

[craggy kindle]

that's quite a rough way to think about it but by just letting this through for now is the best deal because we all know what this new sbmm caused

[rose portal]

this mm sucks. end of the conversation why do i have to get 30 percenters not even 40 im fr here, what's my fault, being 80 with 5k+ battles?

[tall quiver]

rough? eh not really, just a realistic way of thinking, what we should do rn tbh is improvise and find creative ways to bypass the crappy rules 😈

[craggy kindle]

At the end of the day, they tried what we asked for many years, and it's not easy to Make such a request

[tall quiver]

not sure who we is but whatever I'm not here to argue

[rose portal]

not easy? bro they had 1 job 💀 which was giving both teams from the same amount of the tank type

[south seal]

Delusional

[tame zealot]

Who asked for it? You did? I´m on the scene since 2014 and this is NOT what community wanted. You´re wrong, simple as that.

[rose portal]

Majority of the game is 40% so i don't think they will change the mm or fix it, nobody cares about skilled players lets be honest.

[craggy kindle]

idk either who asked for it, wg just said that they had many requests for it, their words, not mine

[iron spruce]

The only people who wanted skill based mm were the bad players who believed that the previous mm was rigged against them

[red glacier]

WG developers "fixing" mm.. 🤣

[rose portal]

if someone is bad at the game it's their problem, now wg made it also my problem and i can't win a single battle, thanks wg

[south seal]

Its not about the skill of the player but their money. Game companies rely on so-called whales that spend money. Your average company, looking at you EA, will focus their work with pleasing the players by looking at which base spends the most.

[rose portal]

you don't say, thing is 40s are the majority and there is a high chance of them bringing more money to wg, 60+ community is very small compared to 40 and 50, probably nothing will change sadly

[south seal]

Honestly I do believe that the most money they make is from 55+ comm. Surely there are some below average players that spend money in the game but mostly people with atleast a few braincells spend more money, since they happen to care more about the game than some family father that plays 5 rounds after their 9-5 and ends up doing 900 avg in a Vk72

[slim junco]

What about making MM more strict? 40 only vs 40, 50 vs 50 and 60 above fight each other.

If you improve, you move up the bracket. In this way, 60+ won't complain about having to carry 40s

And yes. I think the majority of the players are still around 40-50%, they'll battle each other only. And they'll be happier.

If they improve, they move up to 60+ MM.

[rose portal]

what if every top1-16 player quit the game to protest the new mm, imagine

[south seal]

I dont think it works that way. Imagine the queue time for each battle when being 60%

[tall quiver]

why take the fun out of a video game? there's no need to take blitz that seriously, it's just a game 😄

[slim junco]

WR doesn't matter anyways in real life.

But people complain here cuz they care about WR too much. Losing 0.5% is killing them. lol

[rose portal]

''its just a game'' some people enjoy farming stats and having fun and some enjoy dying in 30 seconds, if you gonna play for fun go play in fun modes so you don't ruin my fun

[tall quiver]

I know wr doesn't matter, but what you're proposing is going to take the fun out of blitz completely, it's kinda dangerous to make suggestions like that yknow

[slim junco]

But you're not the only paying customer here. WG serves the large percentage of paying customers, who are probably around 40-50%. And they're happier than before.

That's what matters to WG.

[south seal]

@slim junco

[rose portal]

sadly yes, wish they cared more about their skilled players and didn't screw them

[gleaming lotus]

poor players don't deserve to have their stats artificially inflated. It's dumb anyway cause then bad players who improve still get punished for improving

[tame zealot]

90% of bad players doesn´t care about being better anyways, it won´t change anything for them.

[slim junco]

You def underestimate the spending power of 40%... lol... It's a game in the end...

Many people just play cuz of the gambling... Not sure how many people actually care about WR as much as the unicums here.

[rose portal]

+1, they die they play again, they die, repeat again.. they don't care but i care, you care you know what i mean

[tame zealot]

Some people (uhm me) stream partly for living, why would anyone come along and watch my 45% sessions when people were used to top notch 4k 80% gameplay. It´s boring for me to play, stream and boring for people to watch.

[proven dust]

Regular game mode could be improved by excluding players who don’t meet a number of criteria, all of which WG has data on. Distance travelled, average damage, accuracy, xp, average survival time and others all of which don’t need to be based on lifetime stats but rather a rolling 100 match average. If not met then play is limited to sub tier 5 matches, fun modes and ratings. Then as best as available player pool allows match teams as evenly as possible.

[slim junco]

If you look at WG's sales strategy, they always offer such great deals for "new players" or players who never spent before.

As for players with 30-40K plus battles, nothing is offered.

So it's clear where WG's priority is. It's always about farming more money out of newer players.

Veterans are not WG's top priority.

[rose portal]

I understand you very well, I was averaging 85+ daily and now i barely average 75 sometimes, it's just sad i don't even know what to say

[slim junco]

From a business perspective, growth always comes from "new players" or "new paying customers".

I think the complaint before the new MM was that "too many newbies" joined the game.

But for WG, it's important to keep those "newbies" happy. That's the logic behind the recent change in MM.

With tons of new players coming in, they're not having fun cuz they lose too much.

WG has to do something to keep their interests into the game.

[rose portal]

if you are 70+ oh boy good luck winning, you gonna have to do 6k-7k every game so you can get a single win, im not even talking about 80+

[tall quiver]

the "statistics" they're collecting is how much money they've made after the mm change 😂

[slim junco]

Despite the complaint, 60+ players will continue to play this game.

But for those new players, if they lose too much, they'll probably just give up.

That's bad for business for WG.

So sacrificing the WR of 60+% players is def a price WG is willing to pay keep those new customers happy.

[rose portal]

wish wg could see that, they gonna ignore 🤡

[slim junco]

Yes. I think if newbie players see chances of improving their WR, they'll probably wanna spend more money to buy new tanks.

That's all new sources of income.

Despite 60+ players spending more over the years, there's only so much you can spend on this game.

For example, I've got all the prem/collector tanks already. There's nothing new for me to buy in the game. So even if I wanna spend more, there's nothing new or interesting for me anymore.

It's better for WG to try to convince 5 newbie players to buy a T10 collector tank.

That's what matters to WG's business.

Keeping new players happy is def more important to WG than the WR of 60+ players.

WG might make some adjustments to calm the nerves. But I think this new system works for new players, who are bigger sources of income for WG.

[meager hull]

Legit makes no difference for new players and just punishes good players. This isn’t some we need to make a trade off, they can just revert it. Look at cod with its sbmm, it’s a shell of its former self with a big factor being punishing players. This relies on new players caring about getting “more wins” their new how will they know they get more wins anyway. Also relies on new players spending money let alone enough before leaving. Your just creating an environment where you have no long term player base for no reason

[tame zealot]

+1, this amwaywhatever guy is delusional with his opinions.

[tall quiver]

thank you for taking your time to explain wgs motives behind introducing sbmm, but that's not really the focus of the discussion here, and it really shouldn't be, it's patently obvious that wg is looking to maximize their profits with the mm change, everybody knows that it's literally been the talk of the town for like idk how many days, what we're talking about rn is how the mm has affected the playerbase
though i still think it's an unnecessary discussion since wg is very adamant on keeping sbmm, and really we should be thinking about ways to bypass it

[slim junco]

I don't have the stats. But how many 60+ players are in the game right now?

Why should WG care about keeping this "long-term" playerbase?

[south seal]

Because this long-term playerbase pumps the money lol

Accept it

[tall quiver]

whatever you say about the mm here or there or wherever
wg doesn't care

[slim junco]

Not as much as new players do.

That's why WG never offer good deals for this "long-term" playerbase. lol... Have you seen an offer of "5 USD for 5K gold and 5 Mega Containers" for you lately? I've been getting that offer daily on my alt accounts.

You can't argue that the 5% spends more on the game than the 95%?

[tall quiver]

@slim junco I'll tell you this, if they end up reverting the mm changes that would mean ur wrong 🙂

[south seal]

With those lucrative offers you always happen to mention WG is trying to get new big spenders. Your argument doesnt make any sense

[sacred belfry]

You can actually. The fact is that the majority of FreeToPlay game revenue comes from a very small percentage of its players

[meager hull]

I have no idea where to find the player base winrate breakdown🤷‍♂️ keep the players For stability and money, bro why would you kill off your most dedicated players for no reason. I know they’re greed and lazy but this decision makes no sense. Bad players will win more. Okay and? If they care that much they wouldn’t be bad to begin with. You can also argue that removing 5% revenue for no reason has no positive side to it

[slim junco]

I don't think they'll revert. But they'll probably make some changes to calm the nerves of those 60+ who are complaining now.

[tall quiver]

we'll see what wg does, meanwhile play ratings to bypass sbmm, just don't pass the 5k mark

[slim junco]

Do you have stats to support this claim?

I don't think the 5% 60+ players spend more than 95% of "ordinary joes" in this game.

Plus, a lot of players just love the gambling part of the game. Not the game itself.

Just go on YouTube, how many content creators are about the game itself?

And how many YouTube accounts are about opening crates in Blitz?

I think this is a very good sign of what WG's business is about.

The crates generate much more hype than the game itself.

[meager hull]

I see no logical argument for this change that doesn’t rely on some assumption. It’s just 40% players that can’t see past their own skill issue being happy that the game they suck at is putting another nail in its coffin. When you piss off players and content creators what good does this do…

[sacred belfry]

Google is your friend. Just 0.5-6% of a game’s players spend any money at all.

[slim junco]

That's a generalization of general Free to play games.

Blitz is not one of those.

[dull mural]

on the bright side, this server is most fun it's been since ATGMs, all the tears and tight buttocks, finally worth taking out some popcorn 😄

[sacred belfry]

There’s little reason to believe that Blitz would be the total opposite of the trends in the industry. The onus is on YOU to prove otherwise.

If you have zero evidence, it is reasonable to assume Blitz follows industry trends. Your extraordinary claim is the one that requires evidence

[meager hull]

So blitz isn’t f2p then. Yes it’s a generalisation just the same as you assuming how many good players there are

[tall quiver]

yeah they still don't care if we have something to say about the new mm, which we definitely do, cause it's horrible

[meager hull]

If they didn’t care they wouldn’t make the announcement in the discord then. That shows they can’t ignore this backlash.

[tall quiver]

the announcement 😂

i do wonder though will they care if the big content creators speak up against sbmm?

[gilded portal]

Where is the announcement?

[daring elm]

Those new players are gonna plateu at 50% winrate and the ones that decide to try to improve once they begin to love the game are gonna hate the new matchmaking once they realize how rigged it is. It’s a lose-lose situation for retaining those new players who would’ve stuck to the game and potentially become whales while the noobs will realize something’s up if they consistently win despite doing nothing in the battle

[tall quiver]

btw did wg really expect us to react positively to the new mm like genuine question

[dull mural]

well, why should WG listen, most of the time if you look at the cries on the internet the requests are mutually exclusive, yes, WG made some poor (imho) decisions but they had data which supported their business case, whether we like it or not.
funnily enough sbmm was one of the perennial requests coming back and again which WG should have continued to ignore 😄

[slim junco]

I don't have stats for player spending habits, as WG doesn't publish that.

But this chart shows that 60+ers are def not the majority. Even among players, who have played more than 100 battles after update 10.5

[meager hull]

Be pretty funny is anggeal keeps up with wa-rthu-nder. Your game looks dead if no decent sized channels are playing it. This is just pushing away free advertising

[daring elm]

Damn

[rain olive]

No decent sized channel focus on mobile games

[meager hull]

They have “data” is the same as me saying Iam a millionaire, there’s no proof shown to back this up. @slim junco yes the good players let alone 60% will not be the majority. This is the same with any game

[rustic orbit]

I hate how that is true, but WG never changes their mind

[slim junco]

That's also why complaints from 60+ players won't be a priority for WG, cuz this is not the key to their playerbase.

[meager hull]

Well if the minority is pushing back and the vast majority isn’t noticing any chance or voicing any approval. Look at the discord for example. Complaints should be a priority regardless of how many people are saying so if it’s about something that has no real negative to change. That’s like ignoring a bug since a small amount of players notice it.

[dull mural]

well, just accept that convincing you isn't anybody's priority hence no need to show any data, simples

[slim junco]

But it's different from a bug.

A bug affects everyone negatively.

This new SBMM only affects a small group of 60+ players negatively.

I think WG is willing to make this tradeoff, to keep the rest of the players happier.

Even if the 40% players won't win much more, they def won't lose as badly as they used to, cuz they don't have to face the top players anymore.

[blissful basin]

Hey I can’t connect to wotb, they are telling me that they are synchronizing but like for minutesand noting happens

[meager hull]

The rest of the players aren’t happy tho. How many people are saying yes this change was good. Plus 40% will lose more games just to even out 60% players bro now you have 2 small groups of players being negatively affected. 40% will do worse (won’t notice they clearly don’t care) if they have to be used against anyone that is “too good for the game by wargaming standard”

[tall quiver]

if wotb loses players and wg loses money they will revert the mm changes it truly is as shrimple as that

[slim junco]

I think WG will have stats about if they did lose players after the change or not.

How many players are complaining about the change? Yes. It sounds very loud, cuz they're the top players are care about the WR too much.

But are they 90% of all players? Or they're just the self-centered 1%?

[tall quiver]

I'm not gonna make any assumptions

[blissful basin]

Hey I can’t connect to wotb, they are telling me that they are synchronizing but like for minutesand noting happens

[slim junco]

It could come down to the 1% vs the 99% situation, with those vocal 60+ players being the 1%.

[tall quiver]

again that's an assumption and we don't have the data, they do

[sacred belfry]

Cumulatively, if you look at the table on blitzanalysiz, 60%+ winrate players make up 10% of the population though

[rustic orbit]

I’m pretty sure some of those are people stuck in noob queue hell bullying bots

[slim junco]

I think you're reading the chart wrong. Those above 60% are def less than 1%.

[sacred belfry]

Left column is winrate%, middle column is share of players with that winrate %, right column is cumulative share of players with WR below that %

[rustic orbit]

There are 100 individual bars on the graph

[slim junco]

That's a different chart. It includes players who played less than 100 battles. So those players could have superficial higher WR.

This chart I shared only included players who played over 100 battles.

[rustic orbit]

It’s the same chart 💀

The mildly unhinged unfiltered data has like 30% above 60% wr because of the 10% with a wonderful 100% wr

[dull mural]

historically, iirc, there was a fairly clear distribution 60wr - 10%, 70wr - 1%. very pretty in a way. just shows how much it takes to win that single extra battle in 10. that was before every sad kid started a new reroll every time they lost a couple of battles

[slim junco]

From the unfiltered WR histogram one can see the bumbs at 0%, 25%, 33%, 50%, 67% 75% and 100% due to large number of of players who played only few battles during the update. Wargaming has an issue with player churn and inactivity. Large share of players play few battles and leave the game. Only small share of players are active like you - you would not have not found this page otherwise 😉

[rustic orbit]

The unfiltered has 10% with 100% wr, which isn’t matched by the data the other person pulled up

[sacred belfry]

It’s literally the table for the filtered data

[slim junco]

The graph shows WR distribution for players (y-axis) with during the update 10.5 (x-axis). Only players with more than 100 battles are included.

This is the chart I shared.

[rustic orbit]

You need a loooooooong phone now to demonstrate that they are in fact the same graph

[daring elm]

It's affecting players with like 52% winrate amd above pretty bad, especially bad for those with 55%+ wr

[slim junco]

It's not the same data, cuz the first chart doesn't include players who did not play over 100 battles.

That's why the stats are different.

[rustic orbit]

Just scroll down on the webpage and check the table underneath the graph you just used

Because some people can’t read graphs (like you…?), use the table instead

[sacred belfry]

The stats are the same, you’re just gaslighting us because you don’t understand how cumulative percentages work. The number of players over 60% is sum of all of the bars of tue players over 60%. NOT just the singular bar at the 60% mark. Or you can read the table, which is clear as day

[slim junco]

Unfiltered WR distribution

This data is different, cuz it includes those who just played a few battles and quit. That's why the median WR is 10% higher than the filtered WR data.

Learn to read first.

[iron spruce]

The median for what positive sent was around 49.5%… strange that the graph you sent also has the median at 49.6%…

[rustic orbit]

There’s only one table, and it says EXPLICITLY it’s for the filtered graph

[sacred belfry]

Also, you can clearly see on the table there are 0 players with a WR above 85%, but the unfiltered graph clearly has a lot of 100% winrate players. The table shows the filtered data. That is not up for debate

[gaunt trellis]

Whales are mostly good players. Maybe not super unis but people better at the game are more invested into it and spend more. I'm no whale but I have probably spend a decent chunk on this game. Id estimate probably like 100?

[dull mural]

yeah, it's difficult to talk about percentages when folks haven't yet reached year 6 maths level 😄

[slim junco]

Yes. That's right. The table does show filtered data.

But those above 60+ are still not 10%. Probably around 5%

[rustic orbit]

8.5% is around 9%,

8.5% rounds to 10%

8.5% is more accurate though, and above 61% craters the percentage to 7%

[minor ermine]

those date are from update 10.5 right?

[sacred belfry]

Probably? It is exactly 8.5% according to the table. That’s pretty darn close to 10

[slim junco]

Still the minority of the overall playerbase. That's my point to begin with.

[gaunt trellis]

Also one factor that makes blitz even more spending heavy among skilled players is that the game doesn't give an advantage to young people with quick reaction skills

[paper vale]

Issue for me is that the GAMES are affected. Never seen so many one sided games...

[west zinc]

So your point is that SBMM is for the better because it benefits the majority of the playerbase which is the 49-53%ers?

[rustic orbit]

The point is WG does not care about anyone’s feelings and might leave us to suffer with SBMM and there’s nothing we can do

[slim junco]

Yes. I think so. The overwhelming negative response is amplified by a small group of top players.

[sacred belfry]

Right, but also, as I showed earlier, only a small portion of a game’s players spend money. And that “small portion” of skilled players makes up a massive proportion of the players who spend

[west zinc]

Then we'll need to wait for WG to post their results of SBMM. Because I will be interested if those 40%ers will improve to 50% because imo there's a reason why 40%ers are 40% and it has little to do with the matchmaker.

[rustic orbit]

To be fair this update will shut up the “please SBMM” players for another 5 years or so

[slim junco]

Data to prove this claim. How much the top 60+ spend vs how much the 90% of ordinary joes spend in WOT Blitz.

[slim junco]

If 40% gets carried to wins by 60+, their WR will improve without them doing too much.

But yes, we need more data to prove that.

[sacred belfry]

We don’t have that data, but anecdotal evidence strongly suggests that skilled players spend at a disproportionate rate compared to the rest of the population. Everyone knows that. Look at the account of any decent player, and you’ll see a long list of premiums. If you want to dispute that, it’s in bad faith, and there’s no point in continuing to converse with you.

[crimson mauve]

And WG idea is probably that if the 40%ers increase their stats to 50%ish, they will start spending.. so WG don’t care too much about the 60%ers who might leave 🤷🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️

[daring elm]

It's mostly the top 10% that actually whale in the game lol

[gaunt trellis]

Heres the issue, if you ask any 45% who is now winning maybe an extra game in 20 games they still think the mm is rigged even when its rigged in favor of them. Meanwhile us 60ers are losing an extra game in 10 when we know its rigged !

[slim junco]

I have clan mates who are 45%, he has all the prem/colletor tanks in the game.

You're underestimating the spending power of lower WR players. Not everyone plays this game for the WR. Maybe they just wanna try new tanks.

Having a lower WR doesn't mean they don't play this game as much as you 60+ players do.

[sacred belfry]

Everyone knows that. This dude just wants to claim otherwise because he knows accepting that is devastating to his argument.

Admitting that 60%ers make up a disproportionate number of the spending players would mean he can’t claim that it doesn’t matter that 60%ers are pissed about SBMM

[west zinc]

Problem is, the 40%ers have always been carried to wins by the 60%ers and yet nothing changes. In fact SBMM will make such scenarios less likely. 60%ers can no longer carry the 40%ers in SBMM because that's what the SBMM is designed to do. In order for a 40% to land with a 60% in their team means the opponent has either the same team composition or the opponent has majority of 55%ers which means the 40%ers is already at a disadvantage.

[gaunt trellis]

Stop lying, a 40% player clearly benefits from this mm lol. The average winrate of their team without SBMM would be 47% now its more like 49.5%

[sacred belfry]

Not all whales are 60% winrate players, but a huge portion of whales are 60% players.

[slim junco]

Again, data to prove this.

[daring elm]

Most decent players have a few premium and collector tanks while most of the 60%+ players have several premium and collector tanks since they're the ones that are the most invested into the game. Compare the amount of premiums and collectors that you see from the average 60%er and the average 40%er and you'll see a pretty big differende to the amount of premiums and collectors they have. This kind of spending isn't a surprise for anybody who plays gacha games as well since the whales are usually at the top of the leaderboards in comparison to the the verage players who spend little to no money on the game. It's mostly the top 10% that are actually spending a crap ton of money into the game

[rustic orbit]

At this rate you’re gonna have to be working at WG to provide the required data

[gaunt trellis]

@barren wigeon has basically every tank in the game and has 61%, this is anecdotal but Its pretty hard to find many 60% players without atleast a few bucks spent.

[west zinc]

If this is true then perhaps SBMM is here to stay and sacrificing 10% of the player base is okay for WG if that's their aim. Also do you know where I can get the data for this?

[sacred belfry]

I already gave you my argument. It’s axiomatic that good players spend at a disproportionate rate. That is universally accepted by the community. If you want to claim that this is untrue, then the burden of proof is on YOU to provide evidence for that

[gaunt trellis]

Honestly best way to prove this is to go through blitzstars look at player_##### and find correlation between premium tanks vs winrate @sacred belfry ?

[slim junco]

I also have every prem/collector tank in the game. lol... And I'm not 60+. And I know many players like me who also spent a lot.

We need stats to prove this.

And another point is not just individual spending power.

It's the spending power of 10% top players vs spending power of 90% of average players.

Can you prove the 10% top players spend more money than the 90% of average players combined?

[rustic orbit]

That’s usually how mobile games work, so it’s assumed until proven otherwise

[daring elm]

I think the purpose of the new matchmaking is to see if WG can get more newbies to stick with the game and potentially become another whale by making them enjoy the rigged matchmaking while checking to see how much money they'll lose from the 60% whales that get screwed over by the matchmaker

[slim junco]

Cuz you guys are claiming the 10% top players are more valuable to WG's business.

I find that childish and self-centered.

And it's good that WG doesn't make business decisions based on you guys' two cent.

[gaunt trellis]

Heres the counterpoint, we don't need the top 10% to be more. Lets say its 40%. Now lets say they cut their spending in half. Thats a 20% reduction in revenue WG has to make from the remaining 90% of players who really still think mm is rigged against them anyway so I doubt they spend more.

[sacred belfry]

We know that only a small percentage of players spend money on F2P games (0.5-6%)

We also know that a large percentage of the 60%er population spends money. 60%ers make up about 10% of the population.

Even if you assume that just 1/3 of 60%ers spends money, then it stands to reason that 60%ers make up literally 50% of the players who spend money at the worst

1/3 of 60%ers being spending players is NOT a far fetched assumption

[rustic orbit]

Remember that it’s above 100, not 5000 battles for the graph

[west zinc]

But losing 10% of their loyal consumers are definitely not valuable for WG's business. It's all down to which one is better for the long run in their opinion. Losing 10% now for maybe more average players to spend or keeping the loyal 10% players as is.

[slim junco]

It's 100 battles after the update, not career battle count.

[daring elm]

Because the top 10% are the most valuable spenders in the game. You can check the average 60%er’s garage to see how many premiums and collectors they have and compare them to the average 40%er’s collection and compare both. You can also check gacha games as reference and see how much money the top 10% of their playerbase spends compared to the bottom 90% and you’ll see a massive difference between the two

[sacred belfry]

The dude clearly has no clue how F2P games revenue works lol

[gaunt trellis]

Gacha games aren't great because there is a correlation and causation between how much you spend and how good your account is at winning. Blitz has a correlation although not a very strong causation as you can still be f2p and do very good

[slim junco]

Despite the whining, WG knows most of the 10% 60+ players will continue to play this game. They've already invested too much.

This anger will blow over and the game goes on.

If you really wanna quit the game, you won't be here arguing with me. lol

After all the whining, Droodles is still making a new video about this game everyday. It's his main business. Haha

[daring elm]

Think about it logically. Who do you think spends the most amount of time playing the game? Little Joe who borrows his mom’s phone for 30 minutes to an hour at a time or the 60% player who spends a lot of time grinding the game, trying to get better at the game, is probably someone older that also tend to have money they can spend?

[sacred belfry]

Yeah, cuz uwudles has nothing else. Bro is unemployed lol. I quit, and I’ve sunk a LOT into this game. I haven’t touched it since they added SBMM

[gaunt trellis]

I dont want to quit the game though lol. I liked the game and I had fun before. Its simply not fun now that I either A have to face an enemy unicum every match or carry a bunch of 45ers

[slim junco]

WR has nothing to do with having money or not.

I think most older players actually have lower WR, cuz they don't have enough time to "polish their skills" on a mobile game.

I don't think WR is a good indicator of spending power. Age and professions are much bigger factors.

School kids who play this game can't spend more, even if they want to, cuz they don't have a job.

[daring elm]

Yeah you can still do amazing at the game even as pure f2p. The thing here is that the 60% player is a lot more invested into the game compared to the 40% player that just hits “battle”, die in 30 seconds and never bother to learn at all. The former is a lot more likely to spend than the latter

[west zinc]

So it's just company greed then with disregard of the playerbase opinions I see how it is. I guess I just have to accept that Blitz is really dying lmao. Just because I'm here doesn't mean I condone their decision. I care for this game that's why I'm here but if they keep ruining the game then some people can only take so much before they quit.

SBMM may benefits the 40%ers now but until when? if their WR keeps improving they'll hit the wall eventually then they'll quit as well

[daring elm]

WR is caused by a player’s investment into the game. More invested players are better in the game than the uninvested ones and are a lot more likely to spend money on the game even though they don’t need to because they actually enjoy playing the game and spend a lot of time in it too

[gaunt trellis]

I mean everyone enjoys playing the game if they keep playing it. The difference is just how much they care

[slim junco]

But if the new SBMM is making 90% of the ordinary players happier, cuz they can win easier than before. I think WG is willing to sacrifice the top 10% 60+ players' WR.

[undone pelican]

classic WG, alienate your best and get away with it because they have invested hours upon hours

[gray portal]

I have 6 mil + exp crew and I would like to know how I could use it, currently the lowest lvl is 5 and I can't use exp without spending large amounts of gold or credits. what other options do i have? #devs-answers

[slim junco]

I don't think WR has anything to do with money.

Improving your WR is mostly about spending time playing this game.

Time is something most adult players don't have.

That's why I don't think WR is a good indicator of spending power.

WR mostly means you spent a lot of time playing a mobile game.

Like they always say, you can be a top player by grinding the tech tree. You don't need to spend a lot money to be good at this game.

[daring elm]

The 60%+ players are the ones most invested into the game and also tend to spend the most amount of money as well. The average 50%er would most likely spend a couple hundred USD while the 60%er ccould spend thousands into the game

[west zinc]

TL:DR: Blitz is just a cash grab, where skill don't matter. All that matters is money. At that point just play a gacha game lmao

[gusty plover]

Bro, stop speaking bad about other players in their absence. It just makes you look bad

Especially in your position as Moderator here you should know better

[gaunt trellis]

he aint moderator, just community helper

[daring elm]

As I've said already, while winrate directly has nothing to do with money, most of the high winrate players spend a crap ton of money into the game because they're the ones most invested into the game. High winrate comes from being heavily invested into the game and trying to get better and the more invested you are in the game the more likely you are to spend money. You're not spending money to get higher winrate, you're spending money because you're heavily invested in the game and wish to improve your game experience

[meager hull]

This guy can’t say winrate doesn’t equal money when saying new players (bad) spend money

[daring elm]

Bro’s repeating the same counter argument without actually refuting my point about why 60%ers, the most invested players in the game, spend way more than 40%ers who cba to actually get better at the game let alone spend money

[slim junco]

This is the top 5 WR players on EU. Please check how many prem tanks they have.

Your argument doesn't stand here. At least, with those top EU players.

[hexed venture]

Can you please, next to each buying option, add another bottom ? A FU bottom, please. Because, this is the only I will press after this insane MM change