vehicles-discussion

[valid cedar]

Ah I see

[past crane]

I was talking to @solid gate but whatever

[valid cedar]

Ik i was talking to martin, rip double ping

[past crane]

Lol

[pine owl]

no weak i can get penned by a vk 168

[lyric copper]

well 152mm of armour won’t hold up at tier 8 anyways, but angling helps

[brave night]

168 has good pen ._.

[valid cedar]

How does the vk168 compare to the vk100?

[past crane]

It's worse in everything except the HP.

[wise moth]

It's basically the same tank. I wouldn't call either worse than the other, and they play essentially identically

[valid cedar]

Isnt the vk168 a prem tho, idk i thought it would have better armour or smth

[violet timber]

The only real difference between them is that the 168 makes credits

[wise moth]

^^^this

[past crane]

Yeah, and the cupola and sides are worse. Gun is the same, has more HP, but overall I am happy with my VK 100.

[wise moth]

@past crane The pennable area on the cupola of the VK 100 is the exact same as the VK 168 against 225 AP (like literally within like 1%), and against 265 APCR, the VK 100 cupola is a substantially larger target.

[valid cedar]

For rating battles, are kills and dmg the main things that get u a higher rating: idk whether to take my vk100.01P for rating cuz of low dpm

[violet timber]

I don’t think kills matter as much as damage, but I could be very wrong. Also if you can angle the 100.01 correctly then the low dpm won’t matter a whole lot

[valid cedar]

To angle the vk i just sidescrape or tilt so my corners show to the enemy right

[brave night]

Either is solid but vk 100 has better side scraping abilities and better armor vs tanks with bad pen and the cheeks are better and smaller, the 168 has a smaller cupola but therefore larger cheeks pennable by pramo and bad sides

[violet timber]

Pretty much, you also can use a wall or rock to hide your lower plater

[kindred thorn]

yeah you can use those to also hide your cupola in certain situations

[brave night]

168 also has smaller lower plate

[past crane]

VK100 cupola is still more trolle

[pliant lodge]

pls buff 183 camo. Didn't get to camping spot before getting spotted, lost all HP and left with 200.

[brave night]

Sounds like a you issue

He just said 183 camo @valid cedar

[valid cedar]

yea ik i missed that rip thats why i deleted but it still ghost pinged

[hard cedar]

why would you camp in a 183 the dispersion sucks

[wise moth]

Only against low pen guns. For most tanks, there is no functional difference, and for tanks loading gold, the VK 100 cupola is worse

[brave night]

I mean run camo net for the improved on moment camo ig

[brittle snow]

You do not know pain till you get hit from 5 different enemies in the cupola at the same time

[past crane]

I still choose VK 100 lmao, it's one of my favorite tanks.

[brave night]

You don’t know pain until all of the enemy team is firing gold at my Maus

[brittle snow]

Atleast you know they probably won't be making money without a premium account

[pliant lodge]

@brave night it's not just a "Me" issue. The 183 camo generally suck. You can't camp on regular TD spots. If you camp further away you can't hit.

[brittle snow]

Make em pay, with credits

[brave night]

I realize that but why were you in a position to get spotted and shot at

[pliant lodge]

@brave night I can't camp because dispersion and aim time is bad. So I need a middle range spot

[brave night]

I realize that but you were in a position to get shot getting spotted is one thing but getting nuked is another

[solid gate]

You don’t ever be second line or frontline in a 183

[wise moth]

It's a Maus. Of course they're shooting gold at it. But if you angle correctly, Maus will also eat gold shells for breakfast too

[pliant lodge]

@brave night mediums were all there

[solid gate]

Your not supposed to be with mediums enemy or allied

[lyric copper]

don’t even need to aim in an FV183, but it helps, just load HE and have fun

[brave night]

I bounce gold sometimes but a lot of time their gold has some much pen that angling the turret doesn’t do anything or they just pen the upper plate

[pliant lodge]

@lyric copper I'm not gonna spam HE. 400 damage for a 20 second reload ain't fun at all.

[wise moth]

This is going to sound arrogant, but "angle better"

This is a Maus vs. 340mm HEAT.

[brittle snow]

Just play rule britannia at full blast, drink some tea, and pray that her majesty sill guide your shells

[brave night]

I know how to angle but 374 heat and td pramo gets me

[pliant lodge]

FV183 could need an armor buff as in WoT

[brave night]

Why don’t we give more armor to a tank with 3k dpm and the highest alpha in the game

[pliant lodge]

@brave night not like tanks will struggle with a tank with the worst gun stats

[lyric copper]

not like it’s the only way it will be balanced is to have bad everything

[wise moth]

The Maus can still be angled fairly well against 374 HEAT, and with some wiggling they'll still bounce some shells on it.

Overall though, the Maus is not meant to be impenetrable, but it is a pain to kill, since not only do you have to load gold, but you're going to bounce about 50% of your shots, and the dam thing has 3.2k HP to chew through

[brave night]

I run enhanced makes tanks not able to shoot my cheeks straight on with standard ammo, yes I realize you can bounce and I’m not saying I do I was just talking about those times where the armor just doesn’t work

[lyric copper]

wait wrong place

[brave night]

I wasn’t saying maus didn’t have armor just that on those games where just everything goes wrong everyone is spamming gold and penning

[brittle snow]

If its the maus line in general do you run improved assembly or enhanced armor?

[pliant lodge]

Enhanced armor for Maus @brittle snow

[wise moth]

Assembly

[brave night]

I would only run it for maus imo

I run enhanced armor it helps me against pramo and reg ammo on tds and high pen heavies, up to personal preference

[lyric copper]

double 3.2k HP maus is scary

[pliant lodge]

Bruh, Obj 907 completely kills the idea of running Obj 140

[frigid quest]

Armor is training wheels for super heavies or is4, it's only really a viable option in prog 65

[frigid quest]

Except 907 gets pretty bad gun handling and gets a even worse turret. Also the sides are 40mm thick despite the angle, 907 would replace Leo 1 for sure tho

[brave night]

Idk I do good in my maus with it, only other tank I run it on is prog 65

[brave night]

Leo1 ?

[lyric copper]

I mean, you’d run a 140 because you can’t afford the T-22 or 907

[brave night]

T22 sucks

[frigid quest]

907 gets more dpm while being comparably fast, 907 is the definition of a lightium

[hard cedar]

T22 has troll armor

[pliant lodge]

@lyric copper then again. T-62A

[frigid quest]

T22 is a terrible pub tank but useful in tournaments and rating

[brave night]

^^ only reason I have it

[pliant lodge]

T-22 is so extremely hard to hit and pen at long ranges.

[lyric copper]

T-62A doesn’t have the brawling capacity of the 140

also, that means you can’t aim well

[frigid quest]

907 would completely replace Leo 1 in oasis trap strats with other redeeming qualities, that was the only reason Leo 1 was used

[lyric copper]

leopard 1 w/ 120mm when

[hard cedar]

leo 1 with 152mm when

[pliant lodge]

@lyric copper 5km/h doesn't really make a huge difference compared to a solid turret of T-62A. PLus that extra gun dep

[brave night]

Leopard 1 420 alpha when

[pliant lodge]

I just don't see the point of running Obj 140 when T-62A and Obj 907

[brave night]

Called upper plate and lower profile with ap as standard shell

[lyric copper]

actual gun stats, AP normalisation, better frontal armour

[pliant lodge]

@brave night Little gun dep to really help the low profile. Having instead gun dep would def help Obj 140.

[brave night]

6° is workable

[lyric copper]

aka make it OP as it used to be

[hard cedar]

Why do ppl prefer ap over apcr for standard ammo

[wise moth]

@hard cedar Normalization

[hard cedar]

uh idk what that means

[brave night]

The angle it will pen is better

[hard cedar]

Ah ok ty

[brave night]

I think but I suck at explaining

[wise moth]

@hard cedar Basically, AP and APCR shells reduce the effective angle on armor by 5 and 2 degrees respectively when you hit.

As an example, take the Maus upper front plate. Head on, it's 342 of effective armor against HEAT which does not normalize

Against APCR, it's 326mm of effective armor

And against AP, it's 305mm of effective armor

[lyric copper]

iirc the shell will “reduce” the armour angle by 5°, making it easier to pen

[pliant lodge]

@lyric copper It has bad turret armor compared to T-62A.

[hard cedar]

ohhh ok thanks

[brave night]

Still troll

[wise moth]

Not really

[pliant lodge]

@brave night 2 big hatches. Those aren't troll

[hard cedar]

Obj 140 turret armor is good enough if ppl don't aim

[lyric copper]

back in the day it had better, and the cupolas are easy bait points, still, everyone just loads prammo and goes through the front anyways

[brave night]

No one goes for them they go for the plate they think it will pen and it hits the part that they can’t pen

[wise moth]

Who needs hatches when the whole dam turret is a weakspot

[pliant lodge]

What's the pen of 215b APCR?

[hard cedar]

Running calibrated smh

[brave night]

Are we going to ignore the fact that 140 is fighting meds using 245mm of pen

[wise moth]

@pliant lodge 316mm

[lyric copper]

T-22 has 240mm

[pliant lodge]

oggers @wise moth I'm just sad when u compare it to T-62As turret

[hard cedar]

yeah why would you fight heavies in an obj

[wise moth]

That's without calibrated. If it were using calibrated, then the icon would be highlighted like this

[brave night]

Most have 245 w/o cs

[pliant lodge]

Even the mantlet is penable :V

[hard cedar]

I c

[brave night]

Try that on a med running standard ammo w/o cs

Then try it with a med running pramo

[pliant lodge]

Remove Obj 140 hull and just make the turret the hull 👍

[brave night]

My brain hurts from that statement

[hard cedar]

can't wait to have two cupolas on my hull

[pliant lodge]

@brave night Imagine T-22 without a hull and just the turret as hull :'D pain

[violet timber]

Ah yes, creat the Russian TS-5

[pliant lodge]

T-22 hulless 👍 @brave night

[brave night]

Bruh .exe

[pliant lodge]

New Tier 11 premium tank 999% Credit coeff and it carried dart shells :D

[wise moth]

No med is goint to use standard on a 140 turret.

And with prammo, I'd honestly trust the TVP turret more than that

[brave night]

Can I say how many people have shot standard at the turret

[violet timber]

That’s a yikes from me

[hard cedar]

You'd be surprised at the amount of ppl who shoot standard at your turret

[gentle wasp]

you'd be surprised at the amount of ppl who go town on Middleburg but that doesn't make it a relevant option

[brave night]

Plus is that calibrated or not

[wise moth]

I'm trying to 3k the 140 right now, and it's absolute pain because I literally bounce more shells with TVP and Prog turret than I do in the 140

[brave night]

Y r u trying to use the turret

[pliant lodge]

Turret is meh

[gentle wasp]

it's not, as he already showed, the icon is highlighted when selected

[hard cedar]

How do you bounce more with prog, prog turret is literally paper besides the mantlet

[brave night]

Enhanced armor

[wise moth]

Exactly. That's how soft the 140 turret is

[hard cedar]

No you need to swap to prammo to pen easily, you can standard the prog turret

[wise moth]

140 is literally just a Leopard 1 with less speed, accuracy, alpha, DPM, and gun depression.

Absolutely overrated worthless tank

[brave night]

Pramo = less damage = u can use your dpm to whittle them down better = win

[wise moth]

Trading in a 140 is a horrible idea when you have lowest in tier alpha and a meager 1850 HP pool

[brave night]

Did I ever put trading in my sentence

[wise moth]

No but you've just used the concept of trading.

Your sentence implies a trade 🤦‍♂️
You literally imply 2 things: 1. that you're getting shot for less damage, and 2. that you're putting out DPM in return

The literal definition of trading

[brave night]

I can’t help if the tank isn’t for you then

[smoky hedge]

140 has the most un-Russian like turret of every Russian tank

[brave night]

Just fight other meds and use your troll armor and upper plate and dpm to destroy hem and then flank or get to the sides of heavies and whittle down their hp

[wise moth]

I'm not looking for help, I'm looking to tell you that the 140 is not that good

[hard cedar]

Why do you compare a leo to an obj, obj has way better armor + slightly troll sides

[smoky hedge]

Normally the Soviet sloped turrets are supposed to be well armored but the 140 turret is just a shame

[brave night]

Idk I preform just as well in it as I do in other meds

[lyric copper]

T-54 LTWT: hmmmm

[brave night]

I bounce on turret the upper plate works the gun is nice the speed is nice

[wise moth]

Because they're both paper tanks that rely on their DPM and mobility. Leopard frankly just does it way better

[hard cedar]

Wdym ltwt has a good turret considering it's a light and it's t8

[hard cedar]

Obj isn't paper, you can't he the front and go right through like the leo, and you can actually angle hull and bounce shots in the obj

[smoky hedge]

its got a 5 kmph top speed advantage over the T-62A, in exchange for worse depression, worse armor, and since they share the exact same tech tree I wonder why you just dont go for the T-62A which is clearly the better alternative

[brave night]

While almost having the dpm of a Leo and nice ap shells

[wise moth]

I haven't been HE'd through the front on the Leopard in ages

And for all the talk of the 140 hull, it's completely worthless. People seem to not realize that it's only 2 degrees more sloped than a 62a, and no one thinks the 62a hull is even remotely good. That 2 degrees is so slight, that it hardly ever comes into play

[lyric copper]

dpm only matters if people actively let you shoot them and you can actually pen

[hard cedar]

psst it's still better than the 62a, I can consistently bounce shots from sheridans in an obj and I like not taking 560 dmg

[smoky hedge]

I think thats your luck considering that the 62A has better armor overall

[hard cedar]

No? Obj has better hull armor

[brave night]

Called I got both

[wise moth]

Not just that, but also worse acceleration. I've tested the speed in a race. The 140's speed limit advantage does not balance out the acceleration disadvantage until you've quite literally driven halfway across the map (tested on the highway on Black Goldville)

[wise moth]

It's "better", but not by nearly enough to make a substantial difference

[brave night]

It makes a big difference to me when close quarters in a situation where I would’ve died if I wasn’t 140

[smoky hedge]

and exactly how much difference does that make? It can't benefit you from Three Calibers Rule and only adds a handful of millimeters

[wise moth]

It's actually got thinner nominal thickness. Its advantage is the 2 degrees of extra sloping

[pliant lodge]

@wise moth Enhanced armor or improved assembly in Foch tier 9???

[hard cedar]

Also don't forget to mention obj lower profile, against tanks like the e100 and maus half the time they can't even hit you

[lyric copper]

^ doing that on PC is the ultimate funni

[wise moth]

I run assembly, but I can see the argument for armor, although I still think assembly is better

[pliant lodge]

Also, what's the best way to play Foch?

[smoky hedge]

And all the other Russian meds can easily replicate said stunt

[hard cedar]

T62a can still get hit wdym

[smoky hedge]

The T-22 and 62A have much stronger turrets so they can still absorb the shots instead of hiding away from them

[brave night]

Have you heard of pramo against 62a cheeks

[pliant lodge]

I feel Obj 140 is the tank that picks up the scraps of nearly dead tanks.

[hard cedar]

^ also they can splash he on your turret

[brave night]

Not saying it’s better than 62a but it isn’t trash

[smoky hedge]

Have you heard of getting penned with regular ammo all the time? Dont forget the Object 140 has larger hatches on the top than the 62A, and when you try to facehug a heavy you have less room for error because if they manage to back up, you get penned. If they back up when fighting a 62A, you have a higher chance of bouncing

[pliant lodge]

Obj 140 is very good at more open terrain with an actual good team

[hard cedar]

Hatches don't matter if they can't hit them in the first place, and if you sidehug properly then they can't

[brave night]

I have never heard of people aiming for them

[smoky hedge]

then you have not played the 140 enough

[hard cedar]

Wiggle turret and ggez

[smoky hedge]

Im not saying 140 is outright garbage, but still pretty outclassed by other tanks that can easily do its job better, namely tanks like the STB

[hard cedar]

Stb has no hull armor

[pliant lodge]

@hard cedar yeah but the turret armor is just godly

[wise moth]

Lower profile? Sure, maybe by a centimeter.

But the T-62A brawls better because when you sidehug the enemy can't cheese through your turret

[hard cedar]

Stb is a japanese t62a, it's a hulldown tank, that's not obj playstyle

[smoky hedge]

neither does most of the medium tanks, what kind of medium tank do you expect to have hull armor? The E50M is like the only example

[brave night]

I’ve played a 150 battles I think I’m informed

[hard cedar]

Obj has hull armor, if you angle you can bounce, yes it's not hull armor like the e50m but it's not like it doesn't exist

[smoky hedge]

well take advice from someone who owns all three current Soviet tier 10 meds and played at least 300 games in each

[brave night]

I have all 3 as well as well as 3 or 4 other t10 meds

[wise moth]

I've already debunked this. It's 2 degrees more. It's almost never enough to make a difference. If you can bounce with a 140, 9 times out of 10, the 62A will bounce it too. And no one thinks the 62a has good hull armor

[pliant lodge]

@hard cedar in the end though it's not reliable unless you fight on slopes

[brave night]

And all 3 t10 lights :>

[smoky hedge]

I have 18 total tier 10s and 9 of which are meds and lights, I dont want to turn this conversation into a bragging contest

[pliant lodge]

@wise moth tips for playing the Foch tier 9???

[hard cedar]

yeah it's not 100% reliable on flat ground, but it's not like you won't fight on slopes as there is plenty of elevated terrain on every map

@wise moth yes only 2 degrees, but it's not like 2 degrees is irrelevant

[brave night]

I have 16 t10s and plus why did you mention that you had all 3 of the tanks if you didn’t want a bragging contest

[pliant lodge]

@hard cedar true. But your gun dep isn't really the most handy way for dealing damage.

[wise moth]

Think of it sort of like an STRV. It's got a fairly accurate gun, with high DPM, and it will make short work of an enemy push. In a pinch though, if you have the HP to spare, later in the game, you can use the speed to rotate, and the armor can help you push things if needed

[smoky hedge]

always stick with your teammates, the traverse speed is bad and you need teammates to support you (or at the very least give the enemy something else to shoot at). Its medium tank-like mobility can help you support the flanks but dont expect too much from the armor

[wise moth]

Let's keep stats out of this guys, because there's no point in making stats arguments. It doesn't prove anything

[pliant lodge]

Yeah. I learned Foch doesn't really perform good alone. I try to go with the flow

[hard cedar]

yeah, but t62a gun dep is only 1 degree better, and if you push up on a hill (not hulldown) free angling,

[wise moth]

It's not irrelevant, but it's very close to irrelevant

[brave night]

Well apparently have 300 battles in all 3 Soviet meds makes you opinion 200% better

[smoky hedge]

I want to show that I actually know what Im talking about

[pliant lodge]

@hard cedar at least you can rely ont urret armor

[brave night]

I do as well

[hard cedar]

7 degree of gun dep isn't enough to take effective hull down positions on some maps imo

[smoky hedge]

and thats why I said I wanted to avoid a bragging contest, because if we try to one-up each other this conversation will turn into a warzone

[wise moth]

7 degrees on a very low profile tank is a ton of gun depression. There are very few positions that will require more than 7 on a T-62A

[hard cedar]

Hm true

[smoky hedge]

at this point youre comparing the 62A to a Kranvagn

[hard cedar]

emil 1 has better gun dep than a kran !

[brave night]

Al I can say is 140 is solid med with troll turret and good upper hull good gun and nice dpm

[smoky hedge]

my point still stands, 62A does NOT need as much depression to work a ridge, the 140 doesnt have as much turret armor to do the same and is better off in a support role rather than frontline fighting

[wise moth]

The 140 that you guys are describing simply isn't reality.

When you actually play the 140, or play against it, you very quickly realize it's just a slow Leopard with terrible alpha and gun depression

[brave night]

Can we just leave it off as a solid med that isn’t a bad leopard and we all good

[wise moth]

No, because it really is a bad leopard.

[hard cedar]

it's not a bad leo the leo is a completely different tank

[brave night]

Nvm leopard has no armor this tank does

[hard cedar]

you can rarely brawl in a leo you'll get hed and get owned since you have no armor

[wise moth]

140 has no armor. You might think it does, but in all practical terms it doesn't

[smoky hedge]

if youre talking about med brawling, then I do not believe it's possible for medium tank HE to pen a Leo's front, if youre talking about heavy brawling, then I wonder why you want to go mano y mano against a heavy tank

[brave night]

Then why have I blocked 4K in one match in a tank with no armor

[elfin meadow]

is there really a reason to get the 140 anymore?

[hard cedar]

Med to med unless you facehug they'll go to your side and he you

And positive obj armor is miles better than leo, I've played both and I get no bounces in a leo other than track shots

[wise moth]

Only tanks with HESH can HE pen the Leopard

[smoky hedge]

nope, its just one of those extra tanks that you keep in your garage and take it out as a substitute when your other meds are still in battle

[wise moth]

Because anything can block damage with some luck. I have 3k blocked here in a TVP. Doesn't mean the TVP isn't complete paper

[thick trout]

The 140s only real armour is when you are edging back and forth up a ridge so you alternate between showing an autobounce angle and being able to shoot.
It does this a tiny bit better than the T62 I guess but the T62 can just hulldown and do the same job

The 140 feels more comfortable to play to me but I can't really explain it based off stats and I know I like "challenging" tanks to play

[hard cedar]

Ah yes because comparing damage blocked with actual armor and damage blocked with track shots is fair

[smoky hedge]

correct, except there are barely any tanks that possess HESH ammunition

[brave night]

Never mind 140 no armor I have never bounced on turret or upper hull tank trash am going to delete game bye

[elfin meadow]

i think thats what hes trying to say

[hard cedar]

leo side and rear can be hed by any tank

[wise moth]

Just because you can bounce doesn't mean you will bounce. Anything can lucky bounce, but it doesn't mean it's going to happen often, or that it should be relied upon

[smoky hedge]

and a smart leo player will use their mobility and have their front facing towards you constantly

[hard cedar]

Well guess I haven't seen any smart leo players before, also track shots exist

[brave night]

But it wasn’t a lucky bounce it was me angling a strong upper plate that bounces often

[hard cedar]

Positive your tvp game was the lucky game, you only blocked that much bc they hit your tracks, in your ss the track is clearly broken

[smoky hedge]

theres this magical item known as a repair kit and most players often take it alongside the Restoration Pack, plus the repair speed is quite fast so I dont know if you can shoot their track, maneuver to their side, reload, and HE their side before they repair it and swing the hull around

[wise moth]

It's a weak upper plate that's only 100mm thick and can only bounce when angled at a ridiculous amount. This is how far you have to angle a 140 to bounce with that upper hull. A full 40 degrees.

Yeah. 40 freaking degrees before you can bounce with the upper plate

[hard cedar]

There's this magical thing called a cooldown and if they use their repairs on tracks what's gonna happen if you hit their rack or loader

[wise moth]

That was just the 121. I don't have the replay anymore, but there were bounces off the mantlet, and the upper plate. Remember that was 3k total blocked, not just the 2 shots in the screenshot

The point isn't that TVP is more armored than 140, the point is that paper tanks can still bounce a lot in one game, but it doesn't mean they're not paper tanks.

[smoky hedge]

first of all, you specifically said to "go to their side/rear and HE it," this entire time the Leo is gonna have their gun aimed at you, so you cant shoot the side of the turret. Second of all, you should be focusing more on killing the enemy instead of trying to damage/injure one of their crew/modules

dont forget that the Leo has almost as fast as a reload of an Obj 140 and has higher alpha

[hard cedar]

you don't need to shoot the side of the turret? You can shoot the side of the tank

And yes I agree focus more on killing them, but he has good module damage so if you hit an important module then they're in trouble

[brave night]

But no armor

[wise moth]

140 has no armor either. That's the whole point of the comparison

[smoky hedge]

you need to shoot the turret because thats where most of the ammunition/loader belongs, and since you cant do that I see no reason for the Leo to save up his repair kits in case you damage his ammo or kill his loader

[smoky hedge]

at such a close distance only a very large amount of armor can make a difference, E50M-like because I dont think Obj 140's "better armor" can help against a 105mm Bordkanone L7 at point blank range

[hard cedar]

Don't remember rack/loader location, thought it was in the hull, but either way you can still he their side and thus out dpm the leo

[smoky hedge]

you do know the difference between the 140's and Leo's reload is like .6 seconds right? And the Leo has 350 alpha compared to your 310. I say the dpm is closely matched. Once again, a real Leo player will turn their tank around to prevent you from flanking them

[wise moth]

You shouldn't be taking DPM brawls against mediums in either the Leopard or 140. That's a good way to lose most of your HP and be crippled for the rest of the game

[hard cedar]

I'm saying that in a brawl, if you track shot you can he the leo's side. And iirc the dpm even without he on the 140 is better than the leo

yes brawling isn't the best idea I agree but I'm saying in a brawl obj is way better than the leo

[wise moth]

There's no winner in a DPM brawl between a 140 and Leopard, because even if you "win" it won't be by any more than 1 shot, so you'll be on like 100 HP for the rest of the game, so imagining such a scenario is meaningless.

Also, Leopard out-DPMs 140 now

[smoky hedge]

and what happens if they repair said track? Gonna track em again? What happens if they repair it again? With you so focused on shooting the track, they can focus on dealing actual damage and smack two 350 alpha shots into you. It seems that youre more greedy for HE penetrations than brawling

[hard cedar]

Fun fact: track shots can do damage as well. And by getting he penetrations, you do better in the brawl as you do more damage

[smoky hedge]

HE alone isnt gonna save the 140 because you risk critting the track, or the Leo just turns away at the last second and you only splash

[wise moth]

Also, the idea of any medium other than the T-22 "brawling" in general is absolutely ludicrous. Since meds have such a low HP pool, it's a complete waste of HP trying to "brawl" against other meds. With paper mediums like 140 and Leopard, the only "brawling" you want to do is find isolations on enemy heavies and TDs where you can circle them, and make short work of them with the signficant DPM advantage

[hard cedar]

140 isn't paper unless you load gold, and nobody loads gold every single shot, and if they do free dpm adv for you

[brave night]

Imma just stay away now and do admin things

[wise moth]

It is paper. The hull has to be angled at 40 degrees to bounce AP/APCRs. Sure the turret needs gold, but unless your hulldown dueling against another paper med, that's a good way to throw HP away for no reason (and even against a paper med, you're still throwing away HP for no reason)

[smoky hedge]

140 is still a capable tank and can win against pretty much every medium if played correctly, but its more unfriendly to new players because there are simply better tanks out there. The E50M and T-22 outclasses the 140 in terms of brawling, the 62A, STB-1, Vickers Light, and AMX 30B to a certain extent outclass it in terms of hull-down, the Leo can snipe better, and the Progetto/TVP/BatChat are better at the hit-and-run scenarios. Ive played the 140 for nearly a year and I dont see any role it can fit in other than chewing away at defenceless enemies.

[trail bay]

can we get the Anni up for sale again

[hard cedar]

yes I agree it's not the best med, but as you said it's capable and the tank is not "paper", yes you need to angle 40 deg for consistent bounces but if you want to bounce every time don't play a med in the first place, obj has good armor and it's miles better than the leo

[smoky hedge]

just like those smasher crates please

[smoky hedge]

I agree it has better armor, but not better enough to completely overpower other solid tanks such as the 62A or the Patton

[wise moth]

It's a little better than the leo, but not enough to make any substantial difference. At most you're going to bounce 1 shot per game on average, and the armor isn't nearly good enough to warrant any playstyle changes relative to the Leo.

You still have to play as if every shot is going to pen you, and 9 times out of 10, every shot is going to pen you. So in that respect, it doesn't even matter

[smoky hedge]

hey positive whats the next hashtag if T-22 does get nerfed

[hard cedar]

It's not a little better, no matter how much you try on the leo you won't bounce anything unless they hit your tracks, on the obj if you angle or play on sloped terrain you can actually bounce, not every shot, yes, but no medium can bounce every shot

Yes, the turret can be penned with gold, but you can pen the leo turret with standard

[smoky hedge]

or regular ammo if the enemy gun is big enough

[hard cedar]

yea but med v med no med can pen

[stiff basin]

It won't get nerfed probably

[full sundial]

Anyone else feels like we need a hot dog camo for tog 2?

[frigid quest]

140 has some armor that does not make it completely useless in some situations and has concealment/small enough to rotate with ease

leo is pretty big and the camo rating is pretty disappointing

[hollow notch]

Gun depression:

Barely have to peek
Can peek awkward locations

[frigid quest]

the turret is huge and has no armor, peeking in a tank with no armor is pretty much suicide, the user has to constantly think to make the leo work, and if they can get it to work, well the gun is not outstanding

[hollow notch]

Ah yes, having to think is bad.

And also, the gun on the leo isn't outstanding? Permatracking with laser accuracy and shell velocity and 350 alpha means nothing?

[frigid quest]

botching one shot in the leo 1 would put you in a dpm disadvantage against other tanks except for a few heavies beside for this 30 b running calibrated or american lights, the armor would not bounce much so that would happen pretty often and its obvious that brawling a full hp heavy in a medium is a mistake, im not trying to say leo 1 is bad, only the 183 is a bad tier ten, the leo simply put gets overshadowed, the only use in comp the leo 1 has which is oasis trap strats would not last long given the 907 is coming

leo can be fun yes but is the effort actually worth the result you got?

good =/= outstanding

and no, im not some green or cyan wn8 player crying because they are bad at the game

[solid gate]

Pub wise Leo also has a rough time to fit in I love the thing with my life 4K battles on it but it’s just depressing to play after owning a t62 for months

Is it worth it buying the tiger 131?

[hard cedar]

No

[solid gate]

Welp

[umbral flax]

Tiger 131 and Kuro Tiger are pretty bad tbh

[plucky summit]

Funny how being average is bad nowadays

But then again, I'd agree that they're not very fun to play

[umbral flax]

Yeah Just like my Wr

[plucky summit]

Fellow 50%er

[plucky summit]

I have a confession

[wind burrow]

Guys today i got the T95E6, pretty disappointed with the tank! Probably cause i alrady have Mk6 which in my opinion better in every aspect, anyone here having the T95E6 could share some thoughts?

[hollow notch]

95e6 has a significant mobility advantage. It's more of a big gunned med than a hull down heavy like the chieftain is

[solid gate]

Also even better penetration

[drifting creek]

Hows the WZ-113?

[echo pilot]

bro why is dracula side armor literal garbage

[tepid geyser]

because it's not supposed to have armor, it's basically a light

[echo pilot]

someone yolo'd in a dracula and i realized i could pen the side with he lmao

[gentle wasp]

the fact that it goes so fast and still has sideskirts to give HE some trouble is a bit scary

[echo pilot]

sideskirts to block he dont really matter when draculas turret is so large, its mostly the dpm that make dracula scary

[gentle wasp]

you were talking about how bad the sides were so I brought up the sideskirts. the turret is a much harder target to hit and pen, especially when the thing is going 60+ like it usually is.

The gun isn't scary at all.

[echo pilot]

do you play heavies? Think about how much damage a dracula can do if its death circling you.

[gentle wasp]

not as much as similar tanks. the Drac has the third lowest DPM among t7 meds and lights. the mobility is what makes the tank scary, the gun is about average if not worse.

[echo pilot]

mobility isnt too scary unless its close to you, if its in your line of sight, its already dead. along with the fact that the sideskirts only add like 5 mm of extra armor makes it even worse

[gentle wasp]

if its in your line of sight, its already dead
that's rather flawed logic to say the least.

the thickness of the sideskirts doesn't really matter here, they stop a good amount of HE shells, and that is their purpose.

[echo pilot]

the fact that its a med while you have to play as a light isnt very appealing since mm treats you as a med. Lets say in a normal game and you go light/med route, you have to play as just another light, and hope that one other medium is enough. You will take lots of damage

also have you even seen a dracula? its turret is huge. And you didnt combat my point, it isnt flawed logic, if it doesnt have any cover it takes huge damage from he shells, from any angle you can pen with he

its not that hard to hit a dracula, even if its top speed. If you have played in the tank facing it for a decent amount of time, you should easily be able to hit a shot

[gentle wasp]

you're just rambling now but I'll engage for the time being.

the med/light hybrid offers advantages that you are ignoring, the Drac has med alpha on one of the fastest platforms in the game, that alone gives it great potential.

And again, the sideskirts stop a lot of HE. It's nowhere near to an automatic HE pen, especially when compared to similar tanks.

[echo pilot]

Sideskirts are worse than you make them out to be, turret makes sideskirts irrelevant.

[kindred wren]

The Dracula is by no means a big target and hitting it while it’s cruising at full speed can be quite challenging

[echo pilot]

if you know your shell velocity its not hard. Especially with autoaim being a thing.

[gentle wasp]

so were you misguided when you started the discussion by saying how bad the sides were?

autoaim is far from a reliable hit/pen on a smallish moving target like the drac, even with AP

[echo pilot]

you shouldnt even need to rely on autoaim, it isnt hard to hit a moving target. Plus again, sideskirts are pointless, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. You dont aim for the sideskirts when theres a long turret.

[kindred wren]

Depends on which autoaim you use; PC autoaim for instance aims too low to have a good HE shot

[gentle wasp]

that's subjective, but it's objectively harder to hit a moving tank than a stationary one. again, drac being one of the fastest tanks in the game, it's one of the most challenging to hit.

[kindred wren]

The turret is only long if the Dracula doesn’t aim at you

[gentle wasp]

you're assuming he's not moving his turret, not looking at you, not increasing distance, and not increasing elevation. Yea, easy pen.

[echo pilot]

still not hard to hit the cheeks of the turret. Also @gentle wasp your main argument is that it is hard to hit a moving target. Your aim shouldn't be this bad, especially with veteran role

[gentle wasp]

your literacy shouldn't be this bad. reread this part please ^

[echo pilot]

i said your aim shouldnt be that bad. i read that part, you should easily be able to move your mouse.

[gentle wasp]

funny

[kindred wren]

That’s not his main argument.

Also, the common ‘easy hit’-argument here only works while talking in the Official Blitz Discord it seems, because on the battlefield I have rarely seen anyone hit such shots reliably

[echo pilot]

rn your whole argument relies on "aim bad"

[kindred wren]

You are right in line with the “IS-7 cheeks are an easy pen” people by saying “hitting the cheeks of a moving Dracula is easy”

No, that’s part of the argument. We are currently talking about aim because you claim that the skirts have no effect because apparently everyone aims flawlessly

The main topic of this conversation is not aim, but the effectiveness of the side armour of the Dracula

[echo pilot]

your argument relies on everyone's aim being bad. Plus side armor isnt effective if you can hit the turret.

[kindred wren]

The actual main argument you are facing is: The Dracula side armour is good against HE because of the side skirts

[kindred wren]

A little reminder for you

And I bet that 95% of the playerbase are unable to easily hit the shots you described

[echo pilot]

ive already said a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. Side armor is ineffective if you can hit the turret

[kindred wren]

I’m afraid that I don’t care about the chain as a whole when we only discuss a link of it

[echo pilot]

then you are just being ignorant, side armor does not matter if you are easily able to hit the turret. people aren't dumb enough to aim at the tracks if they can hit the turret. Side armor effectiveness is irrelevant when you dont shoot at it.

[kindred wren]

I’m not being ignorant, I stay on topic

[echo pilot]

that isnt staying on topic. the issue is the side armor rarely matters since the turret will always be visible. It gives no protection if you dont shoot at it

[strange thicket]

Do you reliably hit these shots yourself? Or you get lucky once in a while?

[echo pilot]

yes, i actually know my gun's shell velocity.

[strange thicket]

I do too.

[echo pilot]

then it shouldn't be an issue for you either

[kindred wren]

Let me remind you:

You asked why the Drac side-armour is bad and that you realised that you can HE it
Tiger said that the sideskirts are making HE shots on the side wonky
And from there it evolved.

As you see, we talk about the side armour and the armour skirts over the side, not the turret. I am perfectly on topic while you are moving the goalpost by talking about the turret now

[echo pilot]

Its not going off topic. This is like arguing the german superheavies are really good because of their inpenetrable armor when you can easily shoot the lower plate or cupola

[heady mesa]

Drac side armor is bad but it's spaced and you can't HE it, unless you hit the very top

[strange thicket]

Did you take the terrain into account? The unpredictable driving of the driver?
Dispersion? And the fact that you can't just sit and wait till your aiming reticle is small enough?
And the fact that you might be moving as well which makes it even harder?
There is infinite scenarios.

[kindred wren]

No, that’s different.

One is talking about a certain feature of a tank isolated, and one is drawing conclusions about the tank as a whole based on one feature.

We were talking about the side and how effective the side is; not the tank as a whole and not the turret

[echo pilot]

those variables dont often come up. Plus i said that if a dracs in your LINE OF SIGHT its gonna take a lot of he damage, meaning terrain is pretty irrelevant. Whens the last time you saw someone do "unpredictable driving"? plus if your dispersion is at least decent you can hit it

[echo pilot]

No its not different. the reason the german superheavies armor isn't broken because there are weaker spots you can and WILL shoot at. Same thing with dracula. You wont aim at the spaced armor on the sides if you can hit the turret. Plus the fact that if you for some reason arent able to hit the turret, AP still exists.

[heady mesa]

Those variables do come up quite often, you will almost always be on hilly terrain in blitz

[trail bay]

happy 4/20 love u all:)

[echo pilot]

for the third time, i said if a drac is in your line of sight.

[kindred wren]

I can try to repeat it differently, I can try writing it in bold or cursive, but that doesn’t change the content which you conveniently ignored.

Nobody said that the Dracula is HE-proof or hardly HE-able because of the side skirts. It was said that the sides are mostly protected from HE as a response to you saying that you can HE the sides

[strange thicket]

Tanks with decent dispersion don't have the HE Damage to take the risk
Tanks with big HE damage often have very bad dispersion and these shots are only achievable by getting lucky.

[heady mesa]

Define line of sight, your gun is aiming at a drac or can you see him and your gun isn't anywhere near the drac

[kindred wren]

This is really a case of ‘theoretically possible, but unlikely in reality’

[echo pilot]

Then you are arguing for something different
@strange thicket what kind of tanks do you play? You shouldn't be playing tanks with bad enough dispersion to the point where you have to rely on luck. Plenty of good damage tanks have great dispersion

[kindred wren]

That’s legitimately the topic though

[echo pilot]

‘theoretically possible, but unlikely in reality’ this is my point. In what world will side armor matter because you are unable to hit the turret

[heady mesa]

Not at tier seven, eight, or six

Also what is a "big" caliber? 152 and above? 122?

[kindred wren]

I don’t know, you started talking about side armour

[echo pilot]

then you are arguing for something that realistically doesn't even matter in game. Im not disputing that spaced armor doesnt stop he, im arguing that it doesn't matter because 80% of the time, the side of the turret will be easy to hit, and the other 20% is when the turret is facing toward you, and that isnt a hard shot

[strange thicket]

Passive aggressiveness.
Besides, i don't even play tier 7 that much and i don't see dracs anymore.
Not even tier 8's.
Any relatively big gun in those tiers has bad dispersion unless it is a tier 8.
And you didn't take into account the many variables there.
You are specifying a very specific scenario and not talking anything about the general case.

[heady mesa]

The drac could be flying by, and that wouldn't constitute as an easy shot

[kindred wren]

Yes, the discussion was mostly academic

[echo pilot]

all the variables you mentioned dont come up much, and im not sure what guns you are talking about when you are saying all 6, 7, and 8 guns are super innacurate

[heady mesa]

That's why I asked what rates as a big caliber

[echo pilot]

whos talking about big caliber

[solid gate]

What even is this convo this literally looks like bait

[strange thicket]

Lmao these variables are constantly there.
And any big gun in those tiers is relatively inaccurate, unless you are gonna he with 90mms or 75mms at that point it is not even worth it.

[heady mesa]

You mentioned that plenty of tanks have a high alpha and great dispersion

[echo pilot]

its not bait, me saying drac side armor is garbage is true. Drac literally has no armor on the side

[solid gate]

I own one and the side skirts do work.

[echo pilot]

mostly because low tier people dont realize the concept of spaced armor. When im working on a new tech tree line, if the drac turns to the side its an easy he pen

[strange thicket]

Def bait

[solid gate]

And that’s your experience which everyone’s experience is different so what’s the point of saying that in a channel unless you wanted to specifically spark reactions

[echo pilot]

how is it bait? all my points are valid and everyone keeps repeating the same arguments.

[solid gate]

“Drac armor bad because I can pen” is basically what your saying

[strange thicket]

Yup, def bait

[echo pilot]

literally everyone can pen drac with he. You don't have a point here.

[solid gate]

It’s like saying maus is weak because it can be penned

[strange thicket]

Yeah no shi* we can.
If it is static.
Or you have some laser gun with he damage worth the risk.

[echo pilot]

im saying its armor is weak because literally any 6-8 in the game can pen he reliably.

you can also pen he if its moving, again, just know your shell velocity

[solid gate]

I know how it works I literally have 4K battles in it lol

[strange thicket]

Irrelevant.
That is one of the many affecting variables.
And no, you are wrong.
Try to HE pen it while moving with an su-152 reliably and not a lucky shot.

[solid gate]

I’m asking you what’s the point of even saying that in a random channel if everyone knows

[echo pilot]

then you should know if you turn your side you get penned with he. I've said before, sideskirt armor is also irrelevant since the turret is a big target.

[solid gate]

Still not what I’m asking why’d you feel like saying it in a random channel

[echo pilot]

because its a medium tank, and medium tanks shouldnt go 60 km with no armor other than some decorative sideskirts

[solid gate]

“Is medium tank why go 60kmh with paper armor”
Valid reason to type said thing in a random channel
That’s like saying CDC is good because it doesn’t have side skirts or other flak armor

[echo pilot]

"random channel" did you miss the channel being called vehicles discussion?

[solid gate]

You act like I can’t read I’m saying why’d you feel like bringing it up because I personally don’t care I haven’t driven the thing in many months I doubt anyone else cares besides common debaters I’ve seen around here

[midnight leaf]

dracula side armor is troll

[echo pilot]

don't call me a "debater" when you come in here calling me wrong and then saying you don't care.

if you didn't care and you knew i was right, why did you get involved?

[solid gate]

I wasn’t even calling you one I’m talking about the others above that somehow argued into a whole bother subject

I mean like believe what you want lol Youve said yourself you seem to be new to the game in the past recently and 4K battles won’t change my opinion no one has gained anything here

[echo pilot]

what even is your opinion? you didn't even read my whole argument

[solid gate]

Everything you’ve argued earlier is just pointless my opinion is dracs does indeed work after 4K battles in it I’ll leave it there

[echo pilot]

i didnt say side armor didnt stop he, i said side armor is ineffective because if the side armor is in view, the turret is also in view. I never said drac is irrelevant

[solid gate]

No crap it’s ineffective if the turret is in view it’s roughly average size for its tier a lot of tanks of the tier have that issue but not on the same scale as the CDC

[midnight leaf]

the turret also has spaced armor btw

also drac is basically a tier 7 amx cdc it's good enough already

[echo pilot]

then what are you arguing? i never said drac was irrelevant

[echo pilot]

on the gun and the decorative "ears" that arent meant to block anything

[midnight leaf]

su152s will rarely be able to hit an accurate shot if you run around at max speed, most of the time it lands on the spaced armor on the side, which blocks he damage

[echo pilot]

who said anything about su 152? I don't own and dont plan to own any su tanks

[solid gate]

At this point I’m firmly believing your just doing it for attention I’ll leave this here

[midnight leaf]

su 152s are an example of a threat to the dracula

if you get your ass kicked by amx 13 75s or lttbs that's your fault

[echo pilot]

i look at the armor profile. spaced armor on the top where you arent aiming doesnt do anything. as i said, sideskirt armor doesnt do anything since if its in view, the turret is in view

[midnight leaf]

so you want to bounce shells in your dracula?

[echo pilot]

what are you even talking about?

[midnight leaf]

i thought this convo was about dracula armor?

[echo pilot]

which it doesnt have any of

[midnight leaf]

so you do want to bounce shells in the dracula?

[echo pilot]

i still dont know what you are talking about. This is about HE vs Dracula

[midnight leaf]

so you want the entire tank covered in space armor in order to bounce he shells?

[echo pilot]

i still dont get what you are trying to say.

[midnight leaf]

what do you want changed about the dracula.

[echo pilot]

Nothing, i was literally just saying the side of the dracula is trash

[rapid jacinth]

Is the foch a good tank? Imo I think it’s fun needs a buff but I could just have a diff opinion. Any thoughts

[humble lotus]

Ok here me out, is the autoloader on the M41 better than the faster reload speed gun. I mean with a 9 second magazine reload and 2 second intra-clip I would say it's pretty good

[midnight leaf]

the autoloader worked pretty well for me

[plucky rain]

Not very good considering the whole magazine reload and lesser penetration

[solid gate]

KV-2 needs to be fixed man, this guy takes one shot and Im down to 40 from 960 and then takes another shot 6 seconds later.

[kindred thorn]

you sure it isnt another tank shooting at you?
it is a 20 second reload for the 152 mm kv2

[solid gate]

Im sure

[kindred thorn]

well thats gotta be impossible in regular games

[midnight leaf]

the beauty of isu
bl10 is a cool gun

[solid gate]

What are you implying?

[kindred thorn]

The KV-2 has a 23 second reload with its 152mm howitzer

[solid gate]

...

[kindred thorn]

you probably got shot by another tank

[midnight leaf]

did the 2nd shot deal 960 damage?

[solid gate]

No, that finished me off

[kindred thorn]

and it said who killed you

[gentle wasp]

send replay

[midnight leaf]

it could be a different tank then

unless kv-2 toon?

[solid gate]

How?

[midnight leaf]

i dont think he has save replays enabled

[gentle wasp]

of course not ;-;

[solid gate]

I do but where do I get it?

[kindred thorn]

go to profile then replays
or settings to enable saving them

[midnight leaf]

where do i access replays again

the ui changed

[solid gate]

Damn, not my main account so the settings didn't save

Uh, my other games from yesterday were saved but this one didn't. Why?

[golden shoal]

A 6 seconds reload on the KV-2? Lol I wish, I would pull it out of my garage then

[brave night]

ikr

[solid gate]

Why is the VK. 36 so god damn slow

[tepid geyser]

because it's a heavy

[kindred thorn]

its a heavy
also you have stock engine?

[solid gate]

Nope

My team just left me behind I was going 9 MPH up a god damn hill

[earnest egret]

Quick question stb or m48, am I gonna repurchase 48 or get the stb?

Patton do look kinda beautiful

[solid gate]

Patton is hideous and is a joke

[wise moth]

The one we have in Blitz is kinda eh, but the M48A3 is really hot

[quiet heart]

The patton on pc is also nice. The blitz version just has too bland of a turret

[noble pilot]

i hate tortoise

[kindred thorn]

wdym?
easier to pen than other AT line tanks

[untold zenith]

He means when he’s playing it maybe

[elfin orbit]

thats like one of the 2 t9 tds i wont push directly along with the JT

[solid gate]

hi guys

[harsh fiber]

I hate tortoise

I haven't played it btw it's an awesome tank to me that's why i hate it

[manic carbon]

🤔

[solid gate]

Guys what do you think about AC IV and Fv201 a45?

[kindred wren]

The FV201 (A45) is nice with a good turret and great dpm, but the limited mobility and hull armour make it rather balanced. Not one of the dominators of tier seven but it can hold its ground.

The AC IV Sentinel is something I’d only recommend fans of Australian tanks. The armour is bad, the mobility is bad and the gun doesn’t really make up for it. It’s workable, but it’s far from a great tank

[solid gate]

I have a interesting discussion/debate: what is the worst tank destroyer? I've been wanting to know what the commy thinks about this! XD

[kindred wren]

The members of the union of Blitz commys think that the FCM 36 PaK 40 is the worst tank destroyer to ever grace these forsaken lands

[solid gate]

@kindred wren what nation is that?

[kindred wren]

French

https://eu.wotblitz.com/en/encyclopedia/vehicles/france/FCM_36Pak40/

[solid gate]

Thanks alot XD

[solid gate]

arl 44 is too strong on tier 5-6 !! is almost tier 7 tank !! dmp + armor + gun depresion + pen on ap shell + gun handling

[violet timber]

All tier 6 heavies are too strong, but the ARL does have weak sides, so you can penetrate it at pretty much any angle

[hollow notch]

Arl is the strongest of the tier 6 heavies.

let us not forget the churchill 7 was so strong it got a nerf

[plucky rain]

Object 252U is underrated
Change my mind

[hollow moth]

It indeed compete with Vk 36.01H

[solid gate]

AT 2 is usless !! need pen because even own tier must op T1+bdr use gold ammo for pen no talk on tier 6 when all pen AT 2 easy as alecto and AT 2 no even pen +no do dmg

[hollow moth]

Haha git gud?

[keen garnet]

LMAO wait till you see the rest of the 183 line

[kindred thorn]

at 2 was op for me wdym

just keep yourself at a distance and hide your cupola with buildings/terrain

[hollow moth]

It's far away from OP too @kindred thorn

[kindred thorn]

its op cause a lot of players at that tier dont know how to deal with you

[hollow moth]

Then T28 HTC is op because noobs don't know how to deal with it when this tank hides de cupolas?

No. It's not.

[violet timber]

Um, the HTC is kinda op as in certain positions it becomes an impenetrable monster and even in the open wiggling works to bounce

[kindred thorn]

also like most t4 tanks cant pen the cupola, and neither can some t5 ones

unless you use apcr

[lyric oriole]

AT 2 now actually is kinda bad

It never got the Penetration buff for it's 6 Pdr gun and surprise suprise 110mm of Penetration is no longer enough because even tanks like Pz. IV G have 95mm frontal armor

[kindred thorn]

true

[past crane]

I loved it imo, it's hilarious with it's pop pop gun.

[white sandal]

Is the FV201 (A45) any good? I want to know if it’s worth it to spend the gold to buy

[violet timber]

It’s a more mobile but less armored black prince, so it’s pretty good, but there are better tanks

[white sandal]

Gotchu, I’m looking for something that can rival the Action X in armor and firepower, also speed isn’t much of a problem, any tanks I should look out for?

[violet timber]

Yikes, that’s a hard one. AX is basically unchallenged on ridge lines, but if you want something similar to it that could take it on, I’d look for the T54E2 Shark

[white sandal]

Alright I’ll keep my eyes peeled, thanks for the help!

[violet timber]

No problem

[lyric oriole]

201 is actually a pretty good idea of a tier 7 Caern AX tbh

[midnight leaf]

can it permatrack?

btw what are tanks that can permatrack
the only ones i know of is e25 and black prince

[lyric oriole]

Anything that shoots and reloads quickly

That list is too long

[midnight leaf]

some tanks don't have enough module damage to stop them from getting away

[lyric oriole]

Very few fast firing tanks tier 6 or higher have low enough module damage for that to happen

[runic kindle]

@kindred wren I agree 100%

[valid cedar]

im playing the mauschen rn and im trying to angle to block shots, i seem to be doing it alright though i think i can improve. If ur in the open and a td is abt to fire at you from exactly 12 o clock, how should i angle my maus to maximise the chance to not get penned?

[wise moth]

@valid cedar Maus, or Mauschen?

[valid cedar]

Mauschen

Though i would like to learn tips for both since I'm on the Mauschen atm but going to Maus in the forseeable future

[violet timber]

1. Don’t be in the open in the first place.
2. If you do happen to find yourself in this position, angling about 30ish degrees for the hull and 35ish for the turret is probably your best bet. Make sure to wiggle as well

[valid cedar]

I see, ty!

[hollow moth]

Shoot behind the tracks. You'll pen if you have more than 150mm pen.

[solid gate]

Man I love the FV201, only issue I see is lack of armour

(the tier 7 heavy btw not the light tank)

[hard cedar]

I think you're supposed to play it hulldown

[wise moth]

@valid cedar This is a little late, but this is what the ideal angle on the Mauschen looks like, although against higher pen guns, I would angle the turret a little less than this

[valid cedar]

how much pen is that model assuming im up against? Also isnt there a big penetrable weakspot on the turret's side if i angle it like that

[wise moth]

That's 300mm HEAT. You can angle the Mauschen turret, you just have to be careful with it, and err on the side of underangling

[valid cedar]

what does it look like if i look straight at them with the turret?

[plucky summit]

Green ;)

[thick trout]

When I played the mauschen I didn't bother with angling the turret at all because basically everyone goes for the cupola if they are looking up there. Wiggling and baiting was what worked best for me

[wise moth]

Against 300mm HEAT

[valid cedar]

thats pretty yikes yea

[wise moth]

Against lower pen guns though, angling will make a significant difference. Head on, the cheeks are about 240-250mm thick.

However, with some angling, you can push the effective thickness of the cheeks/turret side up to ~270-280

That's the difference between getting penned by tier 8 prammo and low pen tier 9 prammo, and not getting penned

[valid cedar]

is it possible to check how much exactly you angled that? That angle looks pretty good for me, tho i think getting penned wont be too hard for 300mm guns that way but better than not angling at all

[wise moth]

@valid cedar Hull @28 degress, Turret at 29 degrees

Also, it's a good idea to get used to the idea of angling your turret now, since the tier X Maus is all about angling the turret

This is a Maus with its turret angled against 340mm HEAT

[valid cedar]

i assume that i will definetely need to wiggle the turret and probably hull too right- if i was a t9 ho ri II and saw a mauschen just standing almost still like this id defo get a shot in

[wise moth]

Yeah, Mauschen definitely needs to wiggle, since unlike the Maus, it can't turn its turret into a block of red. Wiggling will definitely throw them off

[calm drum]

Andyroo_88#5119 has been warned.

[valid cedar]

oops

[wise moth]

@valid cedar That's hull @17 degrees, turret at 42 degrees

[valid cedar]

ah nice, tysm for your help!

what website do you use for that btw, just curious cuz that looks pretty useful to see ngl

[wise moth]

I know you don't have the Maus yet, but when you do get it, unlike the previous tanks, Maus has very thick turret sides. Many Maus drivers, and people who shoot at Mauses seriously underestimate how far a Maus needs to angle his turret

The website is wotinspector.com. You need to pay to be able to see tier 8-10 tanks, but it's worth supporting IMO

[plucky summit]

I paid for it ;)

[valid cedar]

oh i see, i currently use armour inspector and sometimes blitz hanger, does that work as well?

[plucky summit]

Blitzhangar is good if it's HEAT only

Also HE but meh, it also doesn't do highlighting and penetration testing like wotinsp

[wise moth]

wot inspector is armor inspector

[valid cedar]

oh oops, my bad. i seem to be able to look at the armour thickness of t8-10 for free tho and angle them around, is it something different?

[plucky summit]

Are you signed into an account?

[valid cedar]

nvm i know what u mean, i cant do pen analysis
and no im not signed in

[wise moth]

@valid cedar That's the free functionality, which will show you the armour thicknesses, but it won't give you the red/green highlighting, and won't account for normalization

[valid cedar]

yea true, wdym by normalization?

[plucky summit]

Free wotinspector is basically Blitzhangar

Ooh yes tell em all about that normalization ;)

[wise moth]

@valid cedar AP and APCR shells decrease the angle of impact by 5 degrees and 2 degrees respectively.

For example, the Maus upper plate head on is 340mm vs. HEAT/HE head on (which have no normalization)
Against APCR, it's 324mm effective
And against AP it's 304mm effective

[valid cedar]

what is normalization tho?

[plucky summit]

Either I don't remember or you've never told which when I was there, do you think AP, APCR, or HEAT, is the best shell if they have the same penetration? Remember each of their mechanics

I'm an AP guy

[valid cedar]

doesnt AP do more dmg than APCR yea but APCR has more pen

[frigid quest]

Ap > He > heat > apcr

[wise moth]

@valid cedar Normalization is the name of the mechanic that allows AP and APCR shells to decrease their angle of impact

If you hit an armor plate that is sloped at 60 degrees, an AP shell will treat it as if it were only sloped at 55 degrees, and 58 degrees for an APCR shell

Basically, it makes your shells better able to pen sloped armor

[plucky summit]

Shell normalization is the act of a shell changing its angle of impact upon impact, decreasing the effective angle of armor plates as calculated above by Posit1ve_

[plucky summit]

Dang, HE? xD

[frigid quest]

At least he can splash, you said compare each shell if they had the same pen

[plucky summit]

I left HE out because that would be broken

[frigid quest]

But I think apcr is pretty bad

[valid cedar]

i see, ty, a lower angle of impact means harder to pen im assuming?

[plucky summit]

Easier to pen

[wise moth]

If their pen is the same, then obviously AP > APCR > HEAT

That said, equivalent shells don't have the same pen.

A good example is looking at tier X heavy ammo. The prammo shells on the AMX M4 54 (310 AP), FV215b (326 APCR), and T110E5 (340 HEAT) are what I call "equivalent" shells, because their effective pen is more or less the same against most targets

In this respect as a prammo shell, I prefer HEAT > AP > APCR

[wise moth]

Lower angle of impact means easier to pen. We measure angle of impact as angle difference from the normal (the line perpendicular to the armor)

[plucky summit]

Kinda feel like linking the WoTEu video on it and boom, magic

[valid cedar]

ohh the normal not the armour line rip, mb
What are the order of dmg and pen of AP, APCR, HE and HEAT? I'm least familiar with HEAT since I've basically never used HEAT before

[plucky summit]

Yup, just light the angle of incidence and reflection in light rays, armor impact angles are measured the same way

[frigid quest]

I would take heat over apcr, apcr looses pen over distance and apcr can still bounce, heat doesnt

[pliant lodge]

@wise moth does enhanced tracks decrease the chance of a shell penning tracks then going into the hull????
æ

[plucky summit]

Oh man if it did

[wise moth]

shell type has no effect on damage (other than prammo dealing less damage than standard, and HE dealing more damage)

In terms of nominal penetration between equivalent shells, HEAT > APCR > AP, but this is balanced out by the normalization effect on APCR and AP shells

[wise moth]

No. It doesn't increase the armor thickness of the module, just the module HP, and also auto-repairs to green instead yellow

[plucky summit]

OP on fast track repairing tanks, such as Dracula or T18

[valid cedar]

does premium ammo include apcr only, or HEAT too? sorry if it sounds dumb rip

[pliant lodge]

@wise moth bruh. Because the Foches tracks are awful. Everything goes into the tracks and hull.

[plucky summit]

It encompasses premium AP, APCR, HEAT, premium HE, also can be noted as HESH

@pliant lodge even if the tracks were more armored, the hull side is simply too weak to deflect shells, unless it autobounces

[pliant lodge]

@plucky summit impossible to angle

[plucky summit]

It's all on the front, gotta use it 🤷‍♂️

[wise moth]

Also, regarding HEAT, HEAT functions somewhat differently from AP and APCR shells, and has a special set of mechanics

1. HEAT has no pen loss over distance. Over 100M, AP and APCR shells will lose some of their penetration capacity (for example, the FV215b's AP shell's pen drops from 258 at 100M down to 239 at 500M)
2. HEAT does not ricochet. At impact angles greater than 70 degrees, AP and APCR shells will bounce no matter their penetration level. HEAT will attempt to penetrate no matter the angle it hits at
3. HEAT has pen loss upon hitting any spaced armor or external module. This pen loss depends on the distance between where it hit, and the primary armor

[pliant lodge]

Like, if you try to angle your hammer head or just make it harder to hit. You gotta wiggle. They'll just pen your side.

[plucky summit]

@wise moth oh really? HEAT doesn't get limited at 85?

[valid cedar]

do the other ammo types also lose pen when hitting spaced armour or external modules too?

[wise moth]

Premium ammo can be literally anything.

Some tanks have premium AP shells (like the AMX M4 54, and the Japanese TDs)
Some tanks have premium APCR shells (probably most tanks you've played so far)
Some tanks have premium HEAT shells (like tier X mediums)
Some tanks have premium HE shells(Better known as HESH, and featured on tanks like the FV4202)

Standard ammo can also be literally anything too
Most tanks have AP standard
Some tanks have APCR standard (usually tier X mediums)
Some tanks have HEAT standard (mostly just the Vindicator and T49)
Some tanks have HE standard (Low tier derps only that I don't know off the top of my head)

[plucky summit]

Only by the thickness of the effective spaced armor @valid cedar I believe

An HE standard is T82 and KV-1 with 122mm

[wise moth]

No, AP/APCR shells do not lose any extra penetration like HEAT. If you hit a 5mm screen, then a 100mm primary armor plate, AP/APCR treats that as 105mm of armor

A HEAT shell, treats that as >105mm armor (the exact value depends on how far the screen is from the primary armor)

[midnight leaf]

just noticed that the krav doesn't have an oscillating turret so you actually don't bounce more shells by aiming up

[kindred wren]

Yes, people aim up to hide the cupolas

[wise moth]

In Blitz, I'm pretty sure it does, but even if it doesn't, in the vast majority of cases anything above 85 degrees will be too thick to pen anyway, and it's not worth confusing him at this point

[pliant lodge]

@midnight leaf you aim the gun up to avoid getting shot in the back turret part.

[kindred wren]

In Blitz, HEAT always attempts to pen and never auto-bounces

[wise moth]

It is an oscillating turret. It just happens that the front face is part of the fixed bottom half. The important part is that the cupolas get depressed on the Kran

[plucky summit]

I think it still is an oscillating turret, but only the gun's area is part of the front oscillation

[midnight leaf]

i thought they were trying to increase the angles on the front of the turret oops

[plucky summit]

@midnight leaf it does if you're using gun depression from above

[wise moth]

I think he means like literally changing the sloping of the front turret armor plate, sort of like how you can do that on a 50 b

[plucky summit]

Yuh and soon to be Somua SM

Curses, there's two white specks, this must be amended

👍

[solid gate]

Nevermind the FV201 sucks everything can pen you and you can’t pen those stupid German things.

[kindred wren]

Wow

[plucky summit]

FV301 is still a nice light tank, the DPM and solid armor preventing easy HE penetrations, added with good mobility makes it an all rounder

[kindred wren]

He’s talking about the tier seven heavy, FV201 (A45)

[plucky summit]

I realize that.

[solid gate]

Maybe I am just tired of seeing those silly SU-152 no skill guns along with the smasher crap

[kindred wren]

So your previous statement was unrelated? confused

[plucky summit]

Treat it as a Black Prince but you can only hulldown sometimes

The added speed takes a lot away from you though

@kindred wren I realized that before my cooldown would let me say I did

I assumed it was a mistype, I'm not used to ever talking about A45

[kindred wren]

Oh, ok 😆

[plucky summit]

I'd love to explain everything in this game but there's always conflict what formula the two caliber rule uses and inconsistencies in the three caliber rule, or an inconsistency between nominal armor on germans and nominal armor specifications on said germans

[kindred wren]

To be honest I like the FV201, the low mobility combined with the low pen is not exactly a match made in heaven, but the dpm and gundepression make up for it. Generally I would rate it as average-good

[plucky summit]

I think it's a lot like 215b, but the advantage of a good turret is traded for making it front mounted

Like a sponge that ruins your day if you don't target it

[kindred wren]

I am 95% sure that the formula of the two caliber rule is:

New normalisation = 1.4 x base normalisation x shell caliber / (2 x nominal armour thickness)

What are the inconsistencies of the three caliber rule you talk about?

[plucky summit]

122mm guns autobounce the 40mm side of Pz. V/IV, I believe the armor could be like 51.4mm

Eesh I'm not on my game today

[kindred wren]

I remember noticing something likewise

[valid cedar]

sorry for the late response, but tysm!

also to chickenman

[solid gate]

Ok I am so tired of dying in the FV201 to some filthy German heavy that just hides behind a hull what am I supposed to do

[neat nimbus]

Can you put a pumpkin on the revaliose?

[plucky summit]

👍

@solid gate don't engage german superheavies? With 201 you gotta put enemies in in uncomfortably dangerous spot, where you can nail in your DPM constantly, luckily, you have the mobility that BP doesn't

[lyric oriole]

@gentle wasp you still have that Attachment spreadsheet?

[gentle wasp]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lshCYEIiU9-KnYFDw1O9NI9ul9o2kK86ySOJY_9aAdM/edit#gid=311492327

[past crane]

cool sheet

[distant nymph]

How the bloody hell do you play the Jpanther 2 - it’s slow, paper, turns like a boat and 260 every 9 ish seconds are not good with such bad depression and gun arc. It has an uncanny resemblance to one of my most despised tanks - the su100m1

[gentle wasp]

first off do you have it maxed out

[wise moth]

@gentle wasp Given that he's using either the 88 or the 105, he definitely doesn't

[gentle wasp]

oh I didn't see the 260. yea @distant nymph don't expect anything from stock tanks. get the max modules asap and then form an opinion about the tank.

[lyric oriole]

It would help you to know that he's running it with out a 75% crew, provisions or equipment to have that slow of a reload

50% crew

[gentle wasp]

...

[distant nymph]

75% crew and 105

[lyric oriole]

The 105 is apparent, but you aren't running anything on it to have that slow of a reload

Just put some equipment and consumables on it, doesn't have to be all the equipment but the gun Rammer is a must

With the Rammer and both foods you can at least achieve 7.2ish seconds for the 105 with a 75% crew

[valid cedar]

How good is the T10 Ho-Ri in ur opinion? I find the high pen rly nice but thats through stats only

[lyric oriole]

I find it my favorite tier 10 TD

Good mobility, great gun

[solid gate]

grinding the IS line turned out to be pain bc no gun depression so I guess I will try grinding Kran line any tips

[plucky summit]

Hulldown as much as possible Emil I and up, for Leo, outtrade people, for Strv 74, hulldown and support

[kindred thorn]

just get to a hill for emil-kran, and beware of your terrible dpm

[solid gate]

Oh so T110E5 but with a autoreloader

[kindred thorn]

and a very hard to pen turret
unless you are a ho ri or whatever or you are in the emil 2

[solid gate]

Ehhh works for me

[hard cedar]

emil 2 turret gets penned by every t10 if they just swap to gold

[plucky summit]

Yup, use it against tier 8s

[valid cedar]

Ho ri pen do be crazy, 310 AP 380 gold

[hard cedar]

tbh, not super impressive imo. e4 and e5 both have 375 gold, obj 268 has 380 gold, 4005 has 370

most tds other than the 183 have penetration values on gold round quite similar to the hori. standard ammo hori has the best iirc, most other tds range 290-300

[plucky summit]

Understand that AP has normalization, which is extremely cracked with 380mm of penetration

This makes Ho-Ri the best penetrating TD in the game

[valid cedar]

Tbh thats true, maybe the gold isnt a #1, but the AP pen (i dont think ull be firing gold forever) and aiming time make it sound njce

[hard cedar]

true, it does have ap. forgot to account for that

[valid cedar]

How does ap benefit more from normalization than apcr?

[plucky summit]

@valid cedar it's simply designed better to shift when it hits an armor plate, giving for normalization

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFktFSJZPsQ&t=1s

Go crazy :D

[valid cedar]

Oh yea true. Whats the order of best nornalization for apcr, ap, he and heat agaun

[plucky summit]

AP for 5 degrees
APCR for 2 degrees
The rest don't normalize

Thanks auto-deleting bot >:l

[valid cedar]

Ty!

[plucky summit]

Np, happy you wish to learn about the mechanics of the game

[valid cedar]

Yea tysm for informing me abt them

[humble lotus]

I am once again asking for the aid of the blitz community. I now have all tier 7 American tanks, and am going for tier 8. Which one would you guys suggest I go for first?

[rigid condor]

They are all pretty good except for the T28 and T28 prot. So really just depends on what kind of tanks you like best.

[humble lotus]

Well I was really wanting a medium, but the Pershings turret armor is significantly worse than that on the PC (World of Tanks)

[sleek marten]

Is the WT Auf (Tier 9 german TD) worth it?

[pine moss]

the whole tree is viable

[sleek marten]

I have already researched it and wanted to know if it would be the same experience but better

[raw pike]

Is the FV201 (A45) worth it?

or even fun to play

[quiet heart]

I think tier for tier the wt is better than the rhm

[plucky summit]

@raw pike it’s a remotely faster BP that lost armor, if that’s what you want

[raw pike]

So that means waiting for a good offer is the best choice?

[plucky summit]

If you want it, sure

Or if you enjoy that it has a perfect 3,000 DPM

[raw pike]

Alright thanks man

[solid gate]

Best gun for is-2?
Also is wz 113 worth the grind?

[kindred thorn]

depends on if you like big alpha or not

[solid gate]

I like big alpha. So top gun it is.

[jade saddle]

What’s the cheapest medium line

[flint star]

Cheapest in...?

[solid gate]

Exp

[golden wagon]

113 is pretty fun but it requires skill to use because of the bad traverse

[static harness]

Just go for the 121 instead
Pretty similar gun to the 113 but the 121 is a better platform

[stiff basin]

Probably FV4202 but idk

[earnest egret]

Do you guys think old tanks will get updated? Like getting a new 3d model?

[floral halo]

A cool new tech tree line would be a Australian tech tree

I mean they have a t6 and t4 already

[sudden terrace]

why tf AT 15 loads 250dmg shell in 3.8 sec when maus load 400 dmg shell in 11s
AT 15 can do like 750dmg in this time
its just great balance

[stiff basin]

because AT 15 is slow, doesn't have as much armor, has less alpha, and is a TD

it's like saying: Why is sheridan's gun outreloaded by every 640 alpha gun on TDs?

[sudden terrace]

ok nvm

[thick trout]

Also maus has 460 alpha and the AT15 has 225 👌

[valid cedar]

what's the main difference between primary armour and spaced armour again?

[midnight leaf]

spaced armor can't take damage

[valid cedar]

ah

[stiff basin]

Spaced armour works against HE and even if it looks like you can penetrate something, you will do only splash damage

[valid cedar]

then why would blitz hanger bother showing armour range values for spaced armour if they can't take damage?

[valid cedar]

wdym by splash dmg, like crits or?

[midnight leaf]

shells still deal damage if they pass through the space armor

they just have their pen reduced by the thickness of the spaced armor

[valid cedar]

ah i see, ty!

[sudden plover]

Anyone have strong opinions on the SU 122 44? I want a TD to grind credits in.

[lyric oriole]

Kinda bad

Low HP

Questionable armor

Horrible accuracy

[sudden plover]

Well then. Sounds like not a good fit.

Ty

[past crane]

I think it should be like the Nightmare with HEAT/HEAT/HE for balance, an AP shell would be useless. Damage would be 300/260/380 ish.

Penetration 80something/110something/50something is my vote.

Maybe yeah, but the Nightmare has a smaller gun and 410 alpha for 50 some pen. 380 with 50 ish pen is fine to me. It would have bad power to weight and terrible turret traverse, plus low HP (600)

[delicate dock]

AT15 can only rely on DPM

Maus has HP, armor, good alpha to work with

[manic carbon]

Didn’t think I’d read a AT-15 - Maus comparison today

[lyric oriole]

There's always an absurd comparison but it's just a matter of what the comparison of the day is

[brittle snow]

Help, am confused on fv215b, how play?

[manic carbon]

@brittle snow It is labelled as a heavy, but you have the DPM and mobility to support your mediums and bully enemy mediums. The frontal armour can also hold up quite well against mediums. You may find it viable to go on the medium route with your mediums in many situations.
Typical mistake I see is that it is played like a typical heavy. They go and try to frontline against enemy superheavies, but that is where you will struggle in the tank a lot of the time.
Play with your mediums where you can, and use your mobility to relocate and position effectively.

[storm blade]

a friend and i actually also had this discussion
wanna see my take on the stats?

eh ill do it anyways
name: BT-42
class: light
tier: 6
HP: 860
view range: 267.2

armour
turret front: 40mm
turret sides: 36mm
turret rear: 36mm

hull front: 40mm
hull sides: 30mm
hull rear: 15mm

gun
DPM: 1360
HEAT pen ( 60 )
HE pen ( 50 )
muzzle velocity: 350
average dmg:
HEAT: ( 340 )
HE: ( 420 )
reload time: 14.0
aim time: 2.10
stationary dispersion: 0.500
dispersion while moving: 0.110
dispersion while turning: 0.110
dispersion while traversing turret: 0.190
after shot: 4.000
gun depression: 5
gun elevation: 18
turret traverse speed: 41.2

mobility
weight: 15 tons
top speed: 55kph
top reverse speed: 15kph
P/W ratio: 33.33 hp/tonne
concealment:
stationary: 28
while moving: 28
firing while stationary: 7
firing on the move: 7

[solid gate]

Wut

[hard cedar]

Most tier 6s aren't

[storm blade]

well true
but you dont want new players having to get slapped half their hp and quit the game

yea but their flaw is bad mobility right?

[half gate]

I want MT 25

[storm blade]

but the BT-42 is just gonna be the tier 5 equivalent of the T49 in tier 8

[solid gate]

all this disperesion factor is about luck/chance hit 20% 50% 30% if move 10 %15% if no move 40% 60 % ! never is 100% becuase ping and dispersion change all

[storm blade]

but the gup fans will love it

[fresh vine]

there shouldnt be tier 5 light tanks with 380 HE damage

like the 183, the tanks niche is unbalanceable

which tank?

1. nightmare is op.
2. nightmare doesnt have a turret

kv1 isnt a light tank and mainly is shooting the fronts of heavy tanks.

the idea of having a light tank that shoots other light tanks with 380 damage is ridiculous

280 damage is still great

its too punishing for new players. thats the problem

[sudden terrace]

i got better idea on BT 42
Tier VI
Armour:
Turret: 70/30/30
Hull: 40/40/20
Hp: 890
Gun:

Gun 1
90mm
230 dmg
7s reolad time
shells:
HE: 350dmg
AP: 230dmg
APCR: 200dmg

Gun 2
100mm
300dmg
10s reolad
shells:
HE: 450dmg
AP: 300dmg
APCR: 260dmg

Speed:
65/30

ik bad idea but realistic

[fresh vine]

yes, other things are bad about the tank, tier 6s outmatch almost every tier 5. the problem is, you can get to tier 5 in an afternoon, with a few hours of playing, you will be making mistakes. 280-380 damage is too much damage in 1 shot is too much for a mistake.

im not saying it is a 1 shot, im saying 1 shot of damage is 280-380.

[sudden terrace]

oh i know
copy KV1S
paste KV1S
name it BT42

[fresh vine]

probably

doesnt matter what they do to the armour, or even the mobility to a lesser extent, people still hate the 183 because the only thing that the tank is good at is too good

[solid gate]

TKS for european low tier prem

[fresh vine]

cya

[sudden terrace]

yeah tks would be like 10shells
3 on shoot
tier III
15s reolad
dmg is 10 - 30

[fresh vine]

tks would be hilarious

[clear bobcat]

Yeah but it has no pen. Unless a light tank is sitting in front of you not moving, prob gonna not do much dmg

[hard cedar]

The gun handling and dispersion on that gun does not seem very fun

[violet timber]

The super Sherman was and Israeli modification, not the same a the rev.

[tame siren]

As if this game was about historical accuracy anni noises

[violet timber]

It appears we are both wrong. The Israelis designed it with a French gun and the French bought some from them

The M51 or M4 Rev. was initially designed by Israel, not France

[lyric pond]

Is the SU-100 worth it? I found the SU-85 good. I have enough for the 100 rn but I don’t wanna waste 900k

[kindred thorn]

DPM is a bit on the bad side, but small profile and speed helps it

[lyric pond]

The 122mm gun looks good in terms of penetration and damage but the reload speed is so long

[kindred thorn]

yeah the damage you get for the reload time is ehh but yeah its low tier

[lyric pond]

What about the T29, is it any good?

[kindred thorn]

us t29 heavy tank?

[lyric pond]

Yes

[kindred thorn]

its been praised by a lot of people

[lyric pond]

…

[kindred thorn]

well it has good pen, dpm is normal, and it is very good at hulldown
slow and chonky though

[quiet heart]

i thought the t29 was one of the strongest tech tree tanks at tier 7

[lyric pond]

I’m going for the T110E5 at the end, it seems pretty good

[violet timber]

T29 may be the best tech tree heavy at tier 7 as you have an impenetrable turret, pretty good hull armor, and a good gun

[kindred thorn]

it has a lot of turret armor though

[quiet heart]

and good hull armor with a small lower plate

[kindred thorn]

"only" ?
thats more than is4 turret armor

[midnight leaf]

not having a turret is a double edged sword

[quiet heart]

can't tell if this guys is trolling or for real

[violet timber]

270 at tier 7 is impenetrable

[kindred thorn]

it has more turret armor than a bunch of t10 heavies

[midnight leaf]

has a cupola tho but enemies can't hit it very consistently if you wiggle around

[violet timber]

Uh no, not really unless the T29 is sitting still

[kindred thorn]

plus you can hide it

[violet timber]

Besides, Type 62 heat penetration is an outlier and so it should barely even be considered

[quiet heart]

14mm difference in pen vs armor is pretty small if you consider angling

[midnight leaf]

its not worth angling t29 turret but anyway at tier 7 270 is a solid amount of armor

[lyric pond]

I was looking at armour and penetration models of the SU-100 and I think I’m going to get it

[midnight leaf]

nice

[quiet heart]

you don't need to angle the t29 turret but unless the type 62 is directly in front of you, it probally won't be able to pen a t29 with heat

[foggy plaza]

Can someone explain why this spot needs to exist

https://imgur.com/a/pijVFsW

[keen garnet]

Because Russia

[valid cedar]

F

[fresh vine]

ruski armour

[valid cedar]

What is the Vk72.01 tree like?

[kindred thorn]

skill needed
bad dpm and ok armor profile

[foggy plaza]

Armor pretty much requires gold to be penned so it’s super strong in regular matches, gun isn’t that bad, slightly better than e100, dpm just sucks

[valid cedar]

How is the armour compared to the e100 and maus's armour?

[fresh vine]

tier 8 bad, tier 9 good at side scrapping, tier 10... i am not sure, everyone ive asked hates it except my clan leader who says its his favourite tank

[foggy plaza]

If you face straight at someone and wiggle it is super strong against AP

Can’t do much about heat though

It’s also unbeatable if you get into a facehug with it

[valid cedar]

Ah i see, thanks

[kindred thorn]

vk 72 put all of the e100 armor onto the front

[valid cedar]

If i alr have the maus should i get the vk 72.01 or nah

[kindred thorn]

i mean it does have a high skill floor imo

[foggy plaza]

It’s a fun tank so I would get it

[violet timber]

Just got the E3 and hawt dang I see why people love it

[valid cedar]

Which tank is the E3 again?

[violet timber]

American T10 non-turreted TD

[foggy plaza]

American TD with no turret

[valid cedar]

Ah is it from the jackson line

Im wondering what the american tds are good for, i found hellcat fun and i use the t7 for fun but i have no clue abt how the t10 plays for all the us tds

[violet timber]

From what I can tell, amongst the American tds, on the hellcat, E3, and T25 are any good

[valid cedar]

What are the playstyles of the E3 and E4 lime?

[kindred thorn]

frontline heavy
oh line

[foggy plaza]

More second line because it lacks HP for E3, E4 is normal TD

[valid cedar]

Wait what arent they tds, not heavies

[violet timber]

E3 can frontline in certain situations due to its armor-gun combo

[foggy plaza]

It can, it just shouldn’t sit in the front all the time

[valid cedar]

Whats nice abt the e3 and e4 that makes it worth getting in ur opinion?

[solid gate]

Jpanther 2 or Ferdinand. Edit: thx

[kindred thorn]

jpanther 2

[foggy plaza]

E3 is just super strong all around, E4 is really bad so don’t get it lol

[valid cedar]

Dammit im on the t7 after the hellcat, can i still get the e3

[kindred thorn]

yeah
t28 prot leads to t28

[valid cedar]

Oh i have to research a t8 from a t8 then

[foggy plaza]

Don’t do that to yourself

[kindred thorn]

t28 prot stock speed is 1km/h :troll:

[foggy plaza]

Just go up the other line lol, it is much less painful

[valid cedar]

Aight sure. Whats better abt the e3 than the e4 tho? Just curious

[foggy plaza]

E3 has the fancy consumables and armor

E4 has neither of those, and the turret existing isn’t enough to compensate

[manic carbon]

E3 also gets two more degrees of gun depression which is very useful

E3 is your assault TD. Good for frontline due to its armour profile as well as gun.
You can usually afford to be aggressive in your E3 since the average player will just sit in front of you, but more knowledgeable players will play around your sluggish mobility, occasionally go for your small hatch, or just outright spam HE at the top of your roof. I do this sometimes if the hatch isn’t a viable option, which it usually isn’t since it’s so small.

[fresh vine]

t28 prot (according to my memory) is the worst tank ive every played in regular battles

[solid gate]

hey it's decent, regular T28 is much worse

[wise moth]

T28 is definitely better than T28 prot. At least the low profile, superior gun, and better camo allow T28 to snipe reasonably well. T28 prot is just....

[kindred thorn]

fat turret cheeks

[past crane]

I like the T28 proto....: (

[hard cedar]

^ same mobility sucks but the gun isn't bad and the frontal armor is quite good as well

[valid cedar]

Which equipment should i use for my mauschen: improved modules or defense system?

[sudden terrace]

im gonan be happy if wg adds french med tanks

[wanton pasture]

^^ the amx cdc, 30er, and 30b were missed opportunities for a new tech tree line imo

[past crane]

Yeah sadly, the AMX M4 54 too.

[sudden terrace]

or some polish/italian tankettes as tier II that are premium

[past crane]

I still think there is room for an armored french heavy line. We put the AMX M4 48 at Tier 8 (basically a standard version of the M4 49 with slightly worse mobility, and the option of the top turret from the PC AMX 65 t and the 120mm gun), the AMX-50 Surbaisse at Tier IX (an AMX 50 B hull with the TCB 120 turret of the M4 54, which was the intended turret for the AMX-50 as well, with 120mm and 127mm gun options from the PC AMX M4 51. Then, the Tier X is an up-tiered AMX M4 51 with the same guns from the PC version of the AMX M4 54 (not the Blitz version). Ta-da!

[sudden terrace]

do you guys always write that essays about non existing french line tanks ?

[wanton pasture]

i mean, it'd be a pretty unique line to add into blitz

[distant nymph]

I support that with everything I have. The armored Frenchmen are my only motive to play WoT PC

[plucky summit]

@fickle vessel just making sure you know, those OP tutorial tanks aren't going into random battles, they're only for the tutorial

[midnight leaf]

make bc 25t a med :troll:

[valid cedar]

What are good abt french hts? Dont weak armour ruin the point of hts

[plucky summit]

Their great autoloader guns, not all heavies have to be armored

[lilac umbra]

hey uh what is the best tank I can buy with gold?

[valid cedar]

Arent there other good tanks with auto loader guns with other perks which arent heavies, i thought the definition of a heavy tank was to be armoured

[plucky summit]

@valid cedar nah the definition was that they're heavy

[valid cedar]

Whats the goos thing abt playing french heavies over other tanks with auto loading guns, i would guess that non-heavy auto loader tanks may have more speed than hts

[plucky summit]

The french tanks are also pretty fast

Also the only medium that outweighs AMX 50 B in tier 10 is E 50 M

[lilac umbra]

hey uh what is the best tank I can buy with gold? help pls

[plucky summit]

Lowe, great credit printer, good tank

[lilac umbra]

thanks

[valid cedar]

I guess so, tho whats better abt french hts than other auto loading tanks?

[plucky summit]

It's a fast drum with 1200 potential clip damage, idk how it isn't better one way or another

[wise moth]

More HP, and more firepower (larger magazines and more pen)

[valid cedar]

Oh yea hp is a thing, do french hts rly have generally more pen and magazines than non-french ht auto loading tanks?

[kindred wren]

No

[valid cedar]

Im just asking cuz first time i saw french heavies i thought to myself 'wtf is this dumb armour for a ht is this a joke' and easily pen french hts in battle, though a few very skilled players made it hard for me to pen them via angling

[kindred wren]

They are more about mobility than armour, and they boast great firepower

But the T57 Heavy has better firepower and the pen is just average

[midnight leaf]

according to the how to play video by wg (for world of tanks not blitz) its for ramming apparently

[kindred wren]

But most auto(re)loaders have 3 shells in the magazine, so I don’t know where the ‘larger magazine’ comes from

[quiet heart]

i assume they mean larger potential clip dmg

[kindred wren]

They are not wrong, the AMX 50 B is a good rammer, but the E 50 M is better

[midnight leaf]

i think a certain british tank destroyer has a larger clip potential

[kindred wren]

That’s the same on all heavies with a 120mm gun

[quiet heart]

nvm, 57 heavy has the same clip potential.

4005 pays for it with a literally paper turret. the 50b turret is bad, but its not easy to HE like the 4005. 4005 also doesn't get a fully traversable turret

[plucky summit]

4005 is super skill based

[kindred wren]

Spall liner

[kindred wren]

It’s super fun when it works

[plucky summit]

Ikr

[valid cedar]

Me who cant relate to high pen due to playing the masuchen 😔, and when i get to the maus its gonna have the lowest pen of all t10 hts

Is 245 pen with AP rly bad for t10 or

[kindred wren]

Good enough for most situations

[valid cedar]

I only have the mauschen and it does ok against most t9 non-super heavies, its just when i get into matches with t10s it becomes hell

E75 gives me so much hell at t9 though 😔, the front armour for me is only penetrable on that super thin cupola which they can wiggle, not even the LBP or turret cheeks are penetrable for me

[plucky summit]

It do be 246mm of pen

[rigid condor]

It's kind of funny that the tanks YouTube say are mediocre or below average are the ones I do best in. Although I don't have of those blatantly OP tanks.

[plucky summit]

T-2020™

[hollow notch]

A problem with using a blatantly op tank is that you get a target on your head. You can fly under the radar with a less powerful tank.

[lilac umbra]

is the fv201 worth it?

[hard cedar]

mauschen should be easily able to pen e75 lower plate assuming you aren't stock, and have you tried using prammo?

[plucky summit]

Hmmmm

[solid gate]

If I have the E100 and the Maus, is it worth it to grind for the VK 72.01 K?

[plucky summit]

Nope

[pulsar sinew]

Tier 7 huh?

With a 420 alpha gun?😂

[charred vigil]

The tank looks like it will be eaten by annihilators

This tank do actually look more balanced than what wargaming makes

[valid cedar]

Wdym by stock? Also i can use prammo but try avoid it cuz its so expensive and for just doing like 300 dmg for the price of 4k credits in normal matches seems not worth the money to me

[ocean lantern]

How do you play the jag panzer e100?

[fast compass]

Stock means the bottom modules which you get directly on researching the tank. Not the top configuration in other words.

And spending 4k for 390 damage is better than spending 500 or 1k for doing no damage. Although good on you for atleast considering the use of prammo.

[valid cedar]

i have used prammo at curcial times, such as if im in in a 1v2 or 1v1 as the last man standing, or a guy is 1 shot of death. And i alr got the researched gun for the mauschen but is my pen meant to be enough to pen the LBP of the E75 with it? it doesnt for me

[next solstice]

The e75 might be running enhanced armor, or he's just angling very well. It has a very strong lower front plate.

[valid cedar]

speaking of enchanced armour, is it worth it getting enhanced armour for my mauschen, or is improved modules for more hp better

[manic carbon]

Flat on you should be able to with top gun.
If the plate is angled, you are likely to not

From my experience driving it, I had a better time with improved assembly. Most people I fought would just go for the cupola, and enhanced armour will not help substantially enough for it.

[valid cedar]

does enhanced armour help with the LBP much?

[storm robin]

Hmmmm... how good is the Obj 140 these days? Decent?

[stiff basin]

Yes, just a brawling T62a

[hard cedar]

Obj 140 on top

[solid gate]

T22 medium

[onyx sluice]

The stock EMIL 1 gun is pain.
Can't penetrate Tiger 2 lower plate even with gold ammo.
Is the top gun any better?

[hard cedar]

You can check the top gun stats in the menu, and yes since pen goes up

But you won't be able to pen tiger 2 lower plate anyway, upper plate of tiger 2 is weaker than lower plate

[stiff basin]

Top gun is way better

[onyx sluice]

I really hope it it is.

[hard cedar]

It is it has like 40 more mm of pen iirc

[solid gate]

I dunno if I made a mistake researching the FV301 instead of the medium tech branch from Comet

[charred vigil]

you mean centurion? because centurion 1 is garbage fv301 is way better. @solid gate

[vale pilot]

Sheridan or Tvp or STB1?

[keen garnet]

STB-1 for overall better tonk

[lyric oriole]

That depends on what you want in a tank

They all do something very very different

[weak veldt]

I prefer the Sheri

Just bc the Sheri grind is just so much more fun, especially the T49

[plucky rain]

Please list out the good t10 premium and collector tanks to buy if they come in shop

[candid harbor]

sheri is also super flexible and much more comfortable to do higher damage

[valid cedar]

is the E3's frontal armour overall stronger than the E4's frontal armour in most cases?

[keen garnet]

I mean, there are not exactly many T10 collectibles and prems
But the T-22 seems fun

@valid cedar Yes

[weak veldt]

Easy to poke a shot and run rather than having to clip out in the open

[valid cedar]

is the main good thing abt the E3 is that it has good armour as a td then. The dpm looks rly underwhelming so

[weak veldt]

Yep armour is OP

If used right ofc

[candid harbor]

e3 has very easy to penetrate roof section
which is also HE peneable to 150mm guns xd

[valid cedar]

is it that big of a target in practise, doesnt look too big to me

[weak veldt]

Not many know of it either

[valid cedar]

yea i didnt notice it until you pointed it out xd
So, how does the E3 play pratically in battles? Does it take the front lines with the heavies or?

[weak veldt]

Yes you need support bc of its traverse (if not using the speed booster)

[brave night]

Second lines saves it hp to end game where it has more hit points and uses armor and saved hp to win as it pushes

Doesn’t generally front line bc of the weak spots

[valid cedar]

is it a nice line worth pushing? Rn my only other td is the ho-ri line, im nearly t8 there atm and just exploring other tanks in general, especially hts and tds since i mostly play those rn

[brave night]

It’s overall good line just t28 exists, 268 line and jageroo/grille lines might be worth grinding

[valid cedar]

whats jageroo?

[brave night]

Jg pz e100

All of them are overall good with one tank u might not like

[uncut grail]

TVP

[valid cedar]

uh isnt t28 the t8 american td

[inland osprey]

I just got this tank, anyone knows if its good?

[latent meteor]

@inland osprey watch Hisroyalfatness youtube video on it. How to play it.
It's good if you know how

[hearty wren]

hellcat actually has a fast turret traverse, I observed this at the Collins Foundation a couple years ago and thought id mention it, the M10 on the other hand iirc has a hand crank

[inland osprey]

thanks for the tip, I'll try to learn how to play it

[valid cedar]

speaking of the stb, how do u play the t7-9 versions of it? I'm on the t6 rn and im nearly at the t7, just curious how they play

[latent meteor]

@inland osprey @valid cedar
No prob :).
Hisroyalfatness also put out a steam video recently where he plays the tier 8,9,and 10 of that line. So you also would want to watch some of that to see how he plays it.
So he's got a how to play STB video and a stream where he plays the tier 8-10

[inland osprey]

Got it, thanks again!

[latent meteor]

:)

[valid cedar]

tysm!

[latent meteor]

:)

[restive sage]

I'm new to this server and I think the ferrari dino 246 gt is a cool car

[inland osprey]

Well abt the sta and type 61, I just followed behind the more tanky meds and pop shots whenever possible
Sort of like a second line tonk
But you'd probably be better off watching videos of better players cos I suck at them :(

[inland osprey]

to answer your question

[spark basin]

hows the t30 nowadays

[stiff basin]

T110E4, but way better tier for tier

[empty vessel]

Why was the ms1 removed? Thats my biggest question game

[inland osprey]

E4 is bad compared to E3
I mean, I can literally prammo its cheeks in a tier 9 med

[valid cedar]

Ah tysm for the tip! Nah ur prob not that bad at them for being able to give advice for them

[compact lantern]

T57 Heavy anyone?🧐

[sullen glade]

I got it

[sullen glade]

Why?

[compact lantern]

Tips, I'm currently on T54E1

[analog vigil]

Make complete sentences please i don't understand what you want..

[restive sage]

I need conqueror tips

[sudden terrace]

BDR G1 B is trash tank

[analog vigil]

Repeat that ? It throw 200-50 baguette dammages with it impenetrable turret

It has pretty good armor and not a so Bad mobility

[charred ivy]

Really?

[sudden terrace]

Mobility is BAD
he cant even turn as well
his penetration is trash
his gun may be good

[charred ivy]

Your third point... it's wrong. You probably use HE

[sudden terrace]

I use ap i, i cant see orange when i shoot so ITS AP

[charred ivy]

LOL, seeing orange isn't the only way to tell which shell ur using

[sudden terrace]

i got 20% winrate with this trash on tracks, on other tanks its 50%+

[sudden terrace]

may i better know, that i use AP instead of HE. HE is most trash shell in game

[charred ivy]

Maybe heavies aren't your thing. Maybe you just don't know how to use BDR.

[foggy ginkgo]

Nah, HE is good
Use it wisely

[sudden terrace]

i use it when i cant penetrate other tanks when im KV2

[charred vigil]

bdr g1 b is top of the class at tier 5 with t1 heavy

[charred ivy]

You wouldn't say that if you had SU 152

[sudden terrace]

I got su152

[charred ivy]

What about the Toaster? And if you have SU 152, then you probably don't use HE with it, or else you would not call it trash

You don't like derp, do you?

[sudden terrace]

i got 52 win rate on SU152 and he is one of best tier VII

[charred ivy]

He? HE? It's a tank, not a human being.

[valid cedar]

BDR is op for its tier lmao
The armout is stupid strong and has good alpha

[hollow notch]

Yall heard the man. Bdr needs buffs

[past crane]

BDR now has the lowest HP of any Tier V Tech Tree heavy.

[violet timber]

Oh no, BDR is definitely underperforming, I think it needs a big buff. I was thinking 1,000mm of raw armor everywhere, maybe 2,000 on the front if needs be. The mobility is an issue, so I think 500kmh with a 260p/w should suffice. The gun is the worst part, so give it 2,000 alpha with a 0.25 second reload, and make sure it has a nice balanced penetration number, something like 8,000mm or so sounds good

@stiff basin Oh, how could I. Yes, it needs 3 types of ATGMs, each one stronger than the last.

@solid gate Because I have nothing better to do, that’s why.

[tawdry blade]

do tanks have horns and wht do they sound like

[stiff basin]

You forgot about autoaiming missiles

[solid gate]

Why do you people put so much effort into unfunny jokes