vehicles-discussion

[cyan oracle]

WG said M48 is the best medium at the moment, is it true?

[daring merlin]

LOL

[odd cove]

they did?

[daring merlin]

Has Nancy Reagan said just say no

[cyan oracle]

LoL

[plucky summit]

Only for newer players

[daring merlin]

M48 the best??? Best at what???

[plucky summit]

Again, not top 5 tier Xs, but top 5 tier Xs for newer players. Don’t draw that out of context

[daring merlin]

E50M laughs at M48 directly

[odd cove]

m60 chortles

[plucky summit]

I think WG pulled from tech trees only, understandably

[daring merlin]

T62 was good till they messed it up last update. Although T54 is real good now

[cyan oracle]

I think it cant b the best for newer players , need skill to play well

[plucky summit]

Every tier 10 needs skill to play well, maybe save for Type 71 though

[daring merlin]

New players should stay away fron lites and meds

[odd cove]

full send sheridan

[opaque flicker]

M60A2 starship or M60A3 Slep? Which M60 variant would be cool to see?

[daring merlin]

Sees Sheridan going town, slap my head

[misty wing]

M48 has a sleeker profile, is getting PBR, and doesn't have an ugly-as-sin camo that can't be removed

[daring merlin]

Ok marry it

[misty wing]

Ok well it's significantly cooler looking than the M60, which is the ugliest tier 10 in the game

[plucky summit]

FV4005 in its own category?

[misty wing]

FV4005 is one of the coolest looking (legendary camo aside)

[cyan oracle]

Yep, i am also newer player, i never play lites cause of i cant play well, but i am training to get good medium skill

[opaque flicker]

A barn on tracks

[plucky summit]

Yeah, light tanks aren’t for the faint of heart

[odd cove]

me spamming t100

[misty wing]

idk why you'd play a t100 over the object 140 nowadays

[odd cove]

because I have 40wr in the 140 lol
I do enjoy the t62a much more

[daring merlin]

Leo Ranger its ok to play lites and med, just dont learn at tier 8-10

[cyan oracle]

I am still noob , bruh 🤣

[misty wing]

T-100 doesn't really have anything on the object 140 besides top speed and the spotting mechanic

[daring merlin]

Im still trying to get my 50T working as it should. I cant nail down its play style

[misty wing]

Object has (most importantly) more DPM, better pw/weight on hard and medium terrain, better on the move dispersion, an extra degree of gun depression, more hitpoints, and better hull armor

[cyan oracle]

I am playing mediums only in T6 and 7, ok?

[daring merlin]

Sure, if your enjoying it

[odd cove]

spam drac

[cyan oracle]

Yep, thank bro

[misty wing]

that's just 15 battles, I had 30% in the IS-7 after that many battles

[odd cove]

I'm doing fine with the russian heavies

[daring merlin]

Leo what med-lite you like?

[misty wing]

that's not the point, I'm telling you to give it another shot lol

[odd cove]

too addicted to the t100 lol

[misty wing]

addicted to a tank that's just worse than the 140

[cyan oracle]

I like Sherman line,

[odd cove]

ill still pick the t62 over it as well. but ill give the 140 another try

[daring merlin]

Lots of sherman varieties

[cyan oracle]

i mean US line

[daring merlin]

Play around different nations, find what style works

[plucky summit]

Yeah there's no reason to pick T-100 LT over Object 140 unless you're a tournament team that crutches on tracer shells

[misty wing]

do people actually do that

[plucky summit]

I doubt it, just pick 140 💀

[daring merlin]

Chickenman sells Obj 140's out of the trunk of his car

[plucky summit]

I don’t own 140 myself, I’m not much of a medium player

[cyan oracle]

Also Leo is my favourite medium at the moment

[daring merlin]

Tier 9 prot or tier 10

[cyan oracle]

No, EU nation , t7

[daring merlin]

Ah

When people say Leo its the tier 10

[cyan oracle]

I noted bro

[daring merlin]

Its got a laser of a gun, no armour so HE spam it

Im not close enough to try it yet. I like my mediums with some armour

[odd cove]

it has a higher skill cap

[pallid flame]

progetto

[daring merlin]

Spaghettio

[pallid flame]

Yes

[cyan oracle]

Actually i like more US medium, great gun depression

[wise moth]

Man, the AT-15 is so toxic in the small tournament formats

[cyan oracle]

And strong turret armour

[wise moth]

If the enemy takes double heavies, it's basically instant GG. You just close the distance, and then steamroll them because tier 8 heavies don't have the firepower to stop you

[daring merlin]

And poor pen

[cyan oracle]

🥹

@daring merlin should i buy M4A1 Rev, if WG sell in Store

[daring merlin]

Ive tried the Ram and Fury, not my style

It has good alpha, but be careful about armour

[misty wing]

@wise moth what would you do in a jageroo on canal

[wise moth]

Honestly, good question.

My default is just to go D corner and hope for the best, but if it's supremacy, and the enemy is heavy, I might try my luck and see if I can snipe them crossing to A

Also, if your meds are playing aggressive, and you're on North spawn, you might even be able to climb the mountain on the redline

[cyan oracle]

Should i try?

[daring merlin]

Up to you

Black Friday deals are coming up. If you spend couple bucks you can get some tanks

[copper swan]

does the M60 look hideous?

[misty wing]

absolutely

[copper swan]

4005:
it's just a no skill clipper
tvp 50/51 needs a bit more skill than 4005 though

[daring merlin]

50-51 has speed, its easier to play then 4005

[copper swan]

AT-15 great in tier 8 tournaments?
another reason to grind the 183 line
I'll use he for it's rear when enemy is using it

[copper swan]

but 4005 has spall liner so it's a bit more forgiving than tvp 50/51

[pallid flame]

It takes skill but okay

[wise moth]

It’s genuinely broken in the 2v2; 3v3, and 5v5 formats, since those use small (usually urban) maps where it’s much easier for the AT-15 to get into close combat with the enemy

[misty wing]

I perform worse in the 4005 winrate wise than most other tanks, I'd say it needs some skill

E4 is somehow my worst tier 10 for wr

[plucky summit]

4005 needs skill to get more than 1600 damage.

[copper swan]

doubt
slap reticle calibration, shell intraclip reducer and dump whole clip at enemy 3 - 7 times
easy damage

[misty wing]

It also needs some "skill" to realize that you should be running spall, shell reload boost, and/or ret cal
40%ers don't do any of those usually

[plucky summit]

You still need to position well so you don't get rushed or traded super hard

[daring merlin]

If you like tier 10 TD damage, you cant go wrong with the Jagaroo

[misty wing]

thanks, canal is super weird to play in most of the heavier/slower vehicles imo

[limber frigate]

man

they need batchat 350 alpha and x5 clip, along wiht amx 13 105 with 390 x3

[solid gate]

No, buff Batchat alpha to 350 and remove spall liner I can see, but we don't need more tank deletion in the game

[spare schooner]

got fv4005🥵 🥵 🥵 🥵 🥵 🥵

That 1640 clip is so fun and spicy

[supple hearth]

Your turret is fun to HE

[tender ore]

^_^🌹

[spare schooner]

But the playstyle is to camp so if your decent at the game then it doesn't happen much

[misty wing]

the playstyle isn't to camp, and decent players typically won't do so 💀

[supple hearth]

Always camp in a Paper TD

[limber frigate]

its not deleting the tank, its changing its tank to its original role, and adding a new tank to replace the old role of the batchat

[misty wing]

he means tank deletion as in tanks with huge clips/high alpha that can kill an enemy quickly

[lyric copper]

not to forget it’s massive, gets spotted easily, and has to now rely hard on its superconsumables to do effective damage

[misty wing]

why does it feel like 50% of cent 7/1 and fv4202 players don't know what hesh is

[lyric copper]

I honestly prefer the old 4005, 6s exposure without intraboost, just pop retcal and you good.

[misty wing]

I used super speed boost on the old one

[lyric copper]

now you almost have to rely on retcal with the after shot dispersion

[misty wing]

nowadays I run retcal + shell reload boost and just play super passive

[lyric copper]

yeah with the nerf to the reverse speed

you can no longer play closer support

[nova birch]

What's a better stock tank is-3 or the kv4

[nocturne bronze]

Is the t7 M6A2 worth it?

[misty wing]

no

[nocturne bronze]

Thnx

What about the T8?

[misty wing]

both no

[ionic adder]

how much gold does preggoto cost as it appears in the store? I really want to buy it, but I don't know how much I have to collect for it

[lyric copper]

if you get lucky they give it away for free later in November

[ionic adder]

It would be a nice gift for my birthday (my birthday is on November 4th). but I still prefer to know how much gold costs, because I may not have this luck, I would have to collect

[lyric copper]

last year they gave it for free, and the year before that, it was a 1% drop chance in crates you would get from watching streams, and there were 56 chances total to get it, which gave alright odds

[ionic adder]

and how much gold is the legendary cammo preggoto?

[misty wing]

I don't think it's available permanently

[granite depot]

hey guys, is the is 7 armor nerfed? i havent played since 6 months

[misty wing]

No

[cyan oracle]

btw, i think RUDY shouldn't exist in Tier7, low armour pen & dmg for Tier7, just my opinion

[willow seal]

Because I run the small Brrrt gun on Cent 7/1, doesn't come with hesh unfortunately :v

[gilded badge]

Would you think the Leo 1 and pta also should get hep ammo from the ru?

[thick temple]

Hola

Como puedo entrar al los concursos

A los torneos

[gilded badge]

It's an English server ^-^

[thick temple]

Hee server EEUU, pero no se como cambiar de server

[gilded badge]

I don't speak Spanish or Portuguese

[thick temple]

Ok only English

[gilded badge]

Yes it wouldn't make much sense if I would start speaking German right

[keen sparrow]

Why do early IS tank took so slow to reload

[oak pollen]

Cuz it have high alpha + it's HT so not expect good gun

[ionic adder]

meanwhile me
When playing fv, it fires 10 premium hesh shells

[safe cedar]

8.5k gold

[neon fog]

whats a good medium line to grind

[onyx raven]

The TVP line is decent

[odd cove]

progetto line is good

[onyx raven]

E 50M line is also a good choice, and so is the M48 line

[blissful hamlet]

Tvp, E50M, Patton, 121 ..

[solid gate]

In terms of easiness IMO for the actual tier ten not line: E 50 M, Stb 1, T62a, maybe tvp and Wz 121, even progetto is ok since autoloaders are easier generally. In terms of the best tier ten meds IMO (I would rate them all fairly equally though): E 50 M, Leo 1, T62a, Tvp, Wz 121, M48.
In terms of the line being easy I’d say: T62a far above the others, wz 121, progetto 65. M48 line is a mixed bag in terms of easiness. 4202 both the line and tank I can’t recommend for easiness but are decent and apparently a ton of fun with HESH lol.

[ornate hollow]

I'll get T110E3, type 71 and 60TP

[limber frigate]

ie the x5 shel clip has crapy aim time, pen, and dispersion, and it takes like 12 seconds to get every shell out

[daring merlin]

Any thoughts on what the Christmas tank is going to be?

[solid gate]

Reindeer

[solid gate]

🦌

[lyric copper]

what they really need is better camo, and for the PT A, better gundep

[lyric oriole]

Probably Locust or BT-SV is my guess

[solid gate]

Hm I got a quick question
Is skoda t27 good?

[lyric oriole]

It's decent

[hot ingot]

well balanced

[tulip knot]

Ke-ni otsu

[fierce radish]

is the leopard pt a good?

[solid gate]

M-103 is a beauty. Change my mind

[thorn folio]

69 battles to get 50 wins in the 260.... and uh yeah, couldn't be happier to stop playing a tank. Regardless of how well I did in that tank it is... not a fun tank, being forced to play sweaty as hell 24/7 just to even do anything is not fun, especially considering the type of tank it's supposed to be

[daring merlin]

Its not the Tank WG makes it out to be. Its fun once in awhile, but you gotta really think in that tank

[pliant pike]

Yes

[vernal frigate]

does chieftain mark 6 even require skill

its pretty fun to play in my experience

[daring merlin]

It requires skill. No hull armour and hatch is easy pen. It has good speed and a laser for a gun

Personally speaking I have it but I prefer the super conqueror

[vernal frigate]

the gun is super fun, but after a couple hundred games, the tank feels like your generic hulldown heavy

[daring merlin]

If you get bored with the hull down meta you can always play the T57

[vernal frigate]

oh yeah i forgot about that tank

[vernal frigate]

how does the 50b compare to t57

[daring merlin]

I don't have it but I'm told the T57 is superior after the nerf

[vernal frigate]

yeah but 50b is super annoying now that it has 4 shells

[daring merlin]

I have T57

[vernal frigate]

it's front hull armour looks to be better and its mobility is really good

ehh t57 is easier to grind i guess

[daring merlin]

Having a variety of different tanks is a good way to go. You can play what your mood feels like

[wise moth]

Totally different playstyle now. T57 still plays like the sort of ambush/support heavy autoloader, but 50 b is totally different now. If you play it like other Blitz autoloaders, you won't be able to make the most of the 4 shell magazine.

Instead, 50 b really is a heavy assassin now. You just play full safe as much as possible, then when the opportunity presents itself, close the distance to point blank where the enemy cannot escape, and annihlate them with the 4 shell magazine

[vernal frigate]

what's t57's mag reload

[daring merlin]

I play TVP 50-51 for that role

[wise moth]

19s with calibrated

[vernal frigate]

oh that's not bad

[wise moth]

TVP doesn't really need to play at point blank like the 50 b does, since the unload time is so fast, and he has the accuracy to fire from a distance

[daring merlin]

Im not going to grind 50B as i dont see the point of it

[vernal frigate]

it looks like a heavy version of tvp ngl

[wise moth]

1520 hurts a lot more than 1240. Also, you get the HP to trade

[daring merlin]

Id rather play T57

[vernal frigate]

50b has really bad side armour

[wise moth]

The armor is bad period. The firepower is armor. You literally just need to hit 2 good clips to put yourself on 3k, so if you pace your HP, you literally just need to take 2 solid trades

[daring merlin]

What tank is best to deal with camping heavies at spawn meta lol

[misty wing]

probably just the best tank you have?

[odd cove]

hit them with a 152mm guided heat round

[thorny smelt]

Use Ho-Ri Type III

[opaque flicker]

Here y'all, just meme on this tank and give the tank stats that it looks like it would have

[odd cove]

brick launcher

[oak pollen]

M4 Sherman stats but change dispersion & aim time too 0.000
Also, change alpha dmg, shell velocity, pen to 999+
And change reload time too 10
Change its tier from 5 to 10

[opaque flicker]

It's a railgun lol

[radiant vale]

If you just talking about DPM, accuracy and agilty, for her tier
Yes
Overall, not really, one of the biggest problem is......she only has 6 gun depression, and she has no armor

[misty wing]

PT A is awful, it has terrible gun depression, huge size with no armor, and the gun/mobility aren't even that good like the Leo 1's are

[radiant vale]

PTA has good gun, but the gun depression destroys all her pros

A soviet gun depression on a leopard 1 , imagine🙃

[solid gate]

Not really sure why it doesn't have 9 degrees tbh. It doesn't have anywhere near the accuracy of the leo 1 or anything. It's got atrocious accuracy iirc, aiming time of 5.8 I think

[misty wing]

yeah the aiming time is quite long, and the mobility isn't extraordinary, with nearly 10 pw/w less than the Leo 1

also why do you keep referring to tanks with female pronouns @radiant vale

[radiant vale]

maybe, I say maybe
L7A1 doesn't have the recoil system good as L7A3

[misty wing]

I wish they nerfed the leo PT A and gave it more stock/mid modules so it can be the ultimate masochist tank

[radiant vale]

Ok, i found why leo pta has only 6 degrees, it use L7A1
and leo 1 use L7A3
breech block of L7A3 reduced in size so gun can be depressed without hitting the turret roof.
thats why leo pta only has 6

[misty wing]

It has 8 in wot PC though 🤷‍♂️

[radiant vale]

BALANS

[solid gate]

Interesting. But since WG don't give a Dam about historical accuracy really I think its best for balance that it gets nine

[misty wing]

imagine if it had a rear mounted turret, which moves the engine deck to the front (kinda like the wt pz iv) and then it gets 2 degrees or something over the front

[solid gate]

Effective HP/T? Cause I guess terrain crossing capacity is worse

[misty wing]

yeah effective on hard and medium is like 9 worse

[radiant vale]

it has mostly same power ratio as vickers light but worse terrain crossing capacity

[solid gate]

Yep

[safe cedar]

Basically the worst attributes of AMX 30b and Leopard 1 combined.

[honest verge]

Anyone gonna vote here or what?

[plucky summit]

40TP is just better

[lilac mica]

Yes

[oak pollen]

But kv2 is more fun
Cuz it have ATSGM (anti tank Stalin guide missile)

[plucky summit]

Which any reasonable player would counter one-shots with mini-spall, at least in tier 6

[distant sierra]

guide missile???

[solid gate]

is the su100y good

[oak pollen]

Yes
But who guide the missile is Stalin not player cuz it's Stalin guide missile

[distant sierra]

😂

[nocturne bronze]

Is the Su100Y bundle worth it?

[radiant vale]

Im sorry im lack of faith

[solid gate]

guys what tanks should I farm next Progetto 65 or T110E3 or the TVP Tier 10

[tulip knot]

Tvp is good but so is T110E3 with that 680 alpha

[solid gate]

progetto? @tulip knot

[violet timber]

All three are good tanks

[stone robin]

I think that the Yoh tanks are better than the E lines

[radiant vale]

if you are a well skill player better get tvp

progetto accuracy has been nerf
If you not the one who want to play a autoloader tank there is no any reasons to get progetto anymore

[empty helm]

And e3 defeated tvp and progetto

[radiant vale]

they can't compare, they are different styles tank, just want to say which line is more comfortable to grind + what you get in T10

[plucky summit]

What tank next?

X56 Speeder ♦️
X30 Shredder ♦️
X64 Roller MT
X22 Skipper MT
X18 Scrapper MT
X14 Caboose MT
X10 Skimmer MT

[empty helm]

X56 Speeder Sonic

[plucky summit]

Alright

[solid gate]

imma go e3 then tvp

[empty helm]

Good

[hollow belfry]

It’s t6 so neither tank is fun to play💀 but the TP is still better

[opaque flicker]

The toilet paper

[blissful hamlet]

Caboose reminds me a tank from wot console

[opaque flicker]

Got the T110E4, and you already know I spend gold on maxing out that crew because I'm not suffering

[misty wing]

I wanna like the E4 but I keep losing in it despite doing 3 or 4k damage

[daring merlin]

You drop the gold on Legendary camo as well

[stone robin]

The Yoh is a good line. I'm leveling a tier 7 and it's doing about 300 per hit with a 13 second reload.

[mellow lantern]

That bad dpm

[misty wing]

The tier 7 yoh is horrific 🤣

[cursive olive]

Comet is underpowered, needs dpm buff

[plucky summit]

The last buff you should have asked for was DPM

Okay you really just made a fool of yourself

[cursive olive]

Comet me bro :3

[plucky summit]

💀

[balmy compass]

😂

[dapper violet]

What should be my first tier 7? I have the jagdpanther available directly for purchase, but I'm contemplating grinding all the way to the Tiger (p) in order to get the vk 100.01 p as a fun superheavy.

What should I do?

[jaunty vale]

whens the italian line releasing

[tulip knot]

Jagdpanther is a very strong tank. As for tier 7, for lights, I’d say ltg, meds panther, heavies tiger, and tds jag. Just an opinion though

[violet timber]

2

[daring merlin]

Tiger 1 is good mix of medium speed as a heavy. Tiger 2 has good frontal armour and nice reload, alpha is same for both

*Tiger P not Tiger 2

Tiger 2 is whole different animal

[jaunty vale]

2nd of november?

[thorny smelt]

Most likely by next month

[jaunty vale]

ah ty

[violet timber]

No, just 2

[dapper violet]

Thanks alot! These are really helpful! I'll probably grind the credits for the jadg and then the exp for tier p at the same time, buy jagd first!

[daring merlin]

👍

[misty wing]

should I buy the m48 or the e100

[balmy compass]

M48 for fun
E 100 if you want boring gameplay

[copper swan]

which premium tank or tech tree line has interesting, and with or without forgivable gameplay?

[balmy compass]

I would say the IS-6 is interesting with the DPM gun, although the tank itself isn’t that forgiving and if you face well armored enemies the DPM gun can do next to nothing

[daring merlin]

Yes hitting the reds with 640 alpha and bouncing shells kinda boring lol

[balmy compass]

Exactly
That’s all you do in the E 100

[misty wing]

at least the new jotun camo is sick

[daring merlin]

And the fatton zips around. Much better meds do that job

[misty wing]

Fatton is actually pretty good, I wouldn't call any of the better meds "much better"

[balmy compass]

Kinda cheap too tbh

[daring merlin]

Fatton isnt a bad tank. But you want to push a flank? Id rather pick few other tanks first

The initial question was the E 100 or the 48. Both tanks are completely different. If you like to hold the line and push through E 100. If you like mobility and flanking it's the 48

[misty wing]

I went and bought the E100 cuz it looks cooler lmao

[daring merlin]

Watch some vids. Once you learn the proper angles to use, its a beast

[misty wing]

Oh I know how to angle lol
I grinded the line years ago but just never bought the tier 10

[daring merlin]

Oh sweet. Your going to love it. The new buff helped the turret

But its not too extreme of angle, slight angle. Almost the same angle as tiger 2

[misty wing]

yeah it was supposed to be my first tier 10 and now it's like my 30th?

[daring merlin]

You had all them b4?

[misty wing]

huh

nvm it's my 42nd tier 10 lmao

[daring merlin]

Is it your first tier 10? Or did you have them b4 years ago?

[misty wing]

I mean the E100 line was one of the first ones I grinded, but I never bought the E100 until now
after I already have almost all the other tier 10s

[balmy compass]

A pretty dumb buff imo
E 100 preformed just fine before but now its excelling 💀

[daring merlin]

And you like the camo? Looks like someone dumped can of paint over. I guess they buffed it due to 69tp and T71

[balmy compass]

Jotun camo looks outstanding compared to the Stalwart camo tho

[daring merlin]

To each there own

[balmy compass]

You could say the E 75 had paint dumped on the turret tho

[daring merlin]

You think E100 and 60tp gap closer now or more tilted in 60tp corner still

[misty wing]

It's about the attachments, not the color itself

[balmy compass]

I honestly like the camo net thrown on the hull

[misty wing]

and it has textures on the front too

[daring merlin]

How much gold?

[misty wing]

3k

[daring merlin]

Not too bad

They wanted 5k for the 50T camo lol

[misty wing]

any camo with bags, grenade laucnhers, searchlights, fuel tanks, railing attached etc is automatically better than the ones that don't

therefore jotunn > stalwart

[daring merlin]

ISU152

Looks like a fishing trawler

[balmy compass]

BatChat already has that stuff without attachments or camo
For the most part that is

[daring merlin]

I like the realistic camo. The new Tiger 1 looks real nice

With the bobwire

[misty wing]

the jotunn is pretty realistic though

[misty wing]

that's probably the best camo in the game imo

[daring merlin]

My favorite that I own would be the T54 camo

[solid gate]

Salut je cherche un clan français

C’est fou ils en propose

[misty wing]

c'est server de l'anglais

idk if that's right lmao

[misty wing]

#clan-search and ask in english

[daring merlin]

Comme ci comme ça

I believe there is there is a clan search channel

[misty wing]

anyone wanna help me make a legendary camo tier list

[lilac mica]

Almost
Server => Serveur
Corrected form: C'est un serveur anglais ici
Depends how you want us to help

[pallid flame]

AHGH

[misty wing]

I just started french class like a month ago lmao

[balmy compass]

O-47 S tier

[misty wing]

It's not that hard apart from the r pronunciation tbh

[balmy compass]

But to be real, Jagdpanzer Mighty looks sick, not sure what I would put above that

[lilac mica]

If you ever need help feel free to ask me i'm a french speaker so
Yeah you're right, my friend uses Duolingo for French and his french stonks
Yeah Jagpanzer Mighty is amazing but you forgot the Ho-Ri Samurai camo

[balmy compass]

Oh yeah, Samurai is also insane, honestly those 2 compete by alot, at least for me

[lilac mica]

I can see why

[misty wing]

I just need someone to send me a screenshot of the camo icon in the menu for the tanks I don't have

[lilac mica]

I don't mind doing it

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-squarepants-to-do-list-long-list-gif-5580267

[misty wing]

I need:
patton beast and pit bull
Maus 313 and Legionary
IS-4 whatever it's called
T-62A fearless
FV4202 Safari
Vickers
FV215b Octopus and Octopus X
AMX 50b Veteran
Foch Destroyer
Batchat Musketeer
Progetto Gladiator
T95E6 Piranha
T-22 Uncatchable
Object 907 Ruthless
S Conq Rex
Object 260 Pike
AMX 30b Corsica
Chieftain Royal

[lilac mica]

Alright i'm on it, i'll send the pictures in DMs just to avoid the spam of icons here

[misty wing]

yeah for sure

[obsidian mirage]

I just waiting m103 Legendary camo for example

" orca" skin (actually T54E2 shark skin but black with white dots on side
m103 turret)

[misty wing]

?

[obsidian mirage]

Like this for example I know this is ugly because just fan art

[foggy spire]

Best legendary camo?

[obsidian mirage]

No ,just concept from my friend ,this is not official too and I like that concept a little bit

[foggy spire]

I know. I meant best legendary camo in the game RN.

[obsidian mirage]

Hmm camo in this update? I think Jotun

[misty wing]

best legendary camo in the game is the ISU Tundra
60TP Krzemien and Type 71 Sankai are good as well imo

[foggy spire]

That looks pretty dope. I personally am a big fan of the 60TP skin. Looks like a tank from the 60s-70s.

[thorny smelt]

IS-4 Skilled

[misty wing]

do any of you have the AMX 50b, Object 907, or T95E6 and can DM me the pic of their camo
Also the FV215b octopus X but that one is really rare afaik

[foggy spire]

I have the AMX 50B. Used to have the T95e6 but sold it.

[misty wing]

https://tiermaker.com/create/wot-blitz-tier-10-legendary-camos-139639

there

pretend the 50b is with the other french ones and the octopus X the same as the octopus

[foggy spire]

Nice!

[copper swan]

send to me as well

[upbeat mountain]

I was really hoping to get two camos that I can’t seem to acquire. The first is the Progetto 46 Reborn Camo. The second is the Ozzie camo for the AC Sentinel. Would love to see them and get them onto their respective tanks!

[lilac mica]

Bet

[kind galleon]

On ARL 44, What Should i Upgrade Turret Modules? Is It Penetration or Damage?

[lilac mica]

Gun
Get the tier 8 gun ye

[misty wing]

get the 90mm

[kind galleon]

damage or penetration?

[misty wing]

the 90mm is the penetration one

[kind galleon]

so viii is penetration to upgrade?

[buoyant ocean]

Tier 8 buddy. Faster reload with more pen.

[kind galleon]

Ok, i Upgrade It For Now

[pliant pike]

I heard that Arl got nerf in 9.4

The pen going down to 180 in 90 mm gun

[real quarry]

Thoughts on the Smasher being a part of Ancient Mythology in WoT Blitz Lore?

[nocturne bronze]

That's KV-2 tho

[steep hollow]

Kv-2 wholesome

[hollow plover]

use the second page of stats, its better and more detailed

[kind galleon]

Already Upgrade indeed and it increases penetration when using ap and apcr

[proud ridge]

I'ts kv 2

[blissful hamlet]

I want to get the Instigator and Typhoon camos some day

[proud ridge]

But luk like that tank like a bt-7 + kv2 from girl in panzer

[misty wing]

Instigator is horrible imo
Just look at my tier list

[blissful hamlet]

I like it

[misty wing]

I want to see you make a tier list now

[compact cipher]

What happened

[proud ridge]

Ok

[blissful hamlet]

I don't have time for it,
But well, i like it, doesn't mean i consider putting it on the high tiers

[misty wing]

It took me like 5 minutes 🤔

[blissful hamlet]

Doesn't matter, it wouldn't be that different, i just don't think the tvp camo is ugly

[golden blade]

How to get Git gud with the maus?

[misty wing]

Angle or sell it (it's bad)

[golden blade]

Is it really that crappy?

[strange thicket]

not really, just not easy to play
and not the steel fortress people expect it to be
the gun got trashed but the armor still works if you know how to work it

[misty wing]

I think it would be nice if they buffed buff the traverse and turret traverse by a decent bit so you can change your angles faster

[oak pollen]

The armor is very good but you need to know well how to play it

[lyric copper]

double stack maus platoon

sigma maus grind

[strange thicket]

it would also be nice to buff the gun back

[real quarry]

Could be either one, I prefer it being Smasher cus it's funnier to me.

[valid gale]

It’s 100% kv2

[gilded badge]

I am currently grinding the 60tp what are other t10 you would say I "need"?

[violet timber]

You don’t need anything other than the Type

[plucky summit]

You don’t need any of them

Also Type, while still trolly, isn’t as busted anymore.

You could probably go for IS-7 to support any future IS-4 grinds, especially since IS-7 itself is good

And boom, I guess I had a stroke

[violet timber]

The IS-8 is getting an unnecessary buff as well

[plucky summit]

Yeah, though the net nerf some time ago kind of prompted it.

[gilded badge]

What 3 lines would you want from PC in blitz? For me the Swedish mediums, 705a and st-II

[balmy compass]

German lights

[obsidian mirage]

Bruh WG already plan Chinese light after this update, remember every tank in Chinese line is just ussr tank line with better accuration and despersion

[distant sierra]

what do y'all think about cdc going 65km/h?

[balmy compass]

speedy

[distant sierra]

Lol. But i think it should be able to go to that speed

[violet timber]

No

[opaque flicker]

The tank I originally struggled fighting with due to its accuracy, the Grille 15, is now nothing to me with my T110E4

I can obliterate it with 2 HE shots

[safe cedar]

WG should do something about obj 263, grille, and foch 155. they are all struggling atm.

[opaque flicker]

Yeah lol, the T110E3 and E4 are doing pretty great though

Ho-Ri is.. okay, its premium shells are good but I'm able to crit that engine so many times its not even worth repairing

[tulip knot]

Sigma stock kv-2 gamer

[opaque flicker]

FV215b 183 in my opinion is just annoying to fight

It's not hard, just hope to god that they either bounce or miss their hesh and you get to keep 90% of your health

[radiant vale]

183 is something like, you know it is weak, but you will not want to get a single shot from her
183: today, in this shot, you and I, one of us will have a bad day

[plucky summit]

183 is just toxic, but I'm sure you can manage to minimize its damage to a splas

[opaque flicker]

Its literally just us peaking eachother until one of us fires and misses lol

[valid gale]

But you see if you still get splashed it’s clearly a skill issue

[radiant vale]

183 is a td need to play by MAGIC, your technique will not change much thing

[plucky summit]

🙄

[opaque flicker]

And if a 183 stops and stares at you

Run away, because it sees a part of you that it can shoot

[safe cedar]

183 is really just annoying, nothing more.

[plucky summit]

Or bait it like a chad

[radiant vale]

183: lets us have bet, you with me, either one will have a bad day

[balmy compass]

just perma-track the 183 .-.

[opaque flicker]

Last time I did that I got one shot

[radiant vale]

leopard 1 get shot:

[plucky summit]

Bad bait then, what tank were you?

[opaque flicker]

My T110E4 decided it wasnt going to accelerate and decided to go 10 km/h

Hit me in the engine with hesh

Yeah, my usual fast acceleration and top speed of 35 did not exist anymore and my driver stepped on the breaks instead of gas

[plucky summit]

F

[opaque flicker]

FV215b 183 is annoying
FV215b is balanced annoying

[safe cedar]

Obj 263 and foch are in the same boat of mediocrity.

[weary storm]

Hello admin🌏

Vote: Burning and Boss

[opaque flicker]

263 or 268?

[plucky summit]

Mad Games is my favorite, deal with it

@opaque flicker 263

[opaque flicker]

Theres so many obj tanks that i honestly cant tell which one is which

[violet timber]

I’d say the 263 is actually worse than the Foch rn

[misty wing]

Big boss is by far and away the best mode and also has a lot of room for improvement

[balmy compass]

mine being realistic 👀

[opaque flicker]

Ohhh the fast open top tank destroyer?

[plucky summit]

Yes

[violet timber]

“Fast”

[solid gate]

true, I like burning game the most, but you can also farming in boss the most

[opaque flicker]

It's faster than most TD's I've seen, every time I spot it its going like 30-40 km/h

[balmy compass]

FV 4005 with enhanced speed boost:

[opaque flicker]

God no, equip the HE

[violet timber]

It’s got top speed, but the p/w is… yikes

[misty wing]

?

[opaque flicker]

Yeah I usually see them coming from hills so I'm assuming they ride down that to reach top speed

@misty wing talking about using HE against the 4005

[plucky summit]

Spall liner is a provision, not an equipment lol
Or well, a consumable

[valid gale]

After uprisings credits were nerfed it is the best mode

[misty wing]

For me it's about the fun factor not the credits

[balmy compass]

which tanks do you like to play in Big Boss

[misty wing]

Anything with a lot of ammo

[opaque flicker]

Leopard

[plucky summit]

TOG II*

[balmy compass]

last time I played E3 I got boss, at some point I didn't realize I was shooting prammo, I fought a Maus and laughed at how I could pen the upper plate 💀

[violet timber]

Drac

[radiant vale]

215b is just.... a violent dmg dealing machine in a right position, it is a SPG with HT weight lul

[plucky summit]

Let's not call it an SPG x-x

[balmy compass]

215b isn't a casemate 💀

[opaque flicker]

Isn't there a tank called the "Chi-To SPG"

[balmy compass]

that's a casemate
it's tier VII in the Ho-Ri line

[opaque flicker]

What about the BT-7 art?

[balmy compass]

that's not a casemate, idk why it's called artillery

[violet timber]

Artillery doesn’t have to have a casemate

[opaque flicker]

Artillery in blitz would have to be super low HP, no armor, and terrible accuracy to work

[plucky summit]

I mean, just shoot the Großtrakktor as an artillery and there you have it

[balmy compass]

I guess so, but to be classified as a SPG or assault gun it would need to be a casemate

[safe cedar]

Yes, but they are both quite bad atm.

[violet timber]

French SPGs 💀

[balmy compass]

the french don't know how to build tanks .-.

[opaque flicker]

Doesn't SPG stand for "self propelled gun"?

[plucky summit]

Yes

[misty wing]

Yes

[violet timber]

KV-2 being an assault gun and SPG 💀

[balmy compass]

oh yeah that's right, I forgot
guess I confused SPG with something

[opaque flicker]

Bishop being the ugly British knockoff of the KV-2

[balmy compass]

I just did a research paper on SPGs and already forgot KV-2 was one of them 🤦‍♂️

[opaque flicker]

Wait KV-2 is an SPG and assault gun?

[plucky summit]

Artillery!

[violet timber]

Yes

[opaque flicker]

So that technically makes the KV-2 a researchable artillary

[balmy compass]

Russia wanted a 152mm SPG, they made the KV-2, so yes
although it was more intended more for bunker busting then anti-tank use

[safe cedar]

Yes, but no. Its an outlier, it would be better defined as a heavy support tank. Like the panzer III N or early version of the panzer IV.

[opaque flicker]

Calling a 152mm gun a support tank is like calling an M4 Sherman a handgun, it just does not sound right

[safe cedar]

They definitely don't know, they totally didn't create the first modern tank.

[violet timber]

I mean, even the Sherman was artillery at one point (105mm Sherman’s)

[balmy compass]

I used a bit of sarcasm there, I know the AMX 13 series was pretty good

[misty wing]

Chickenman do you know what the highest dpm possible with uprising abilities is

[violet timber]

Which tank are you talking about?

[opaque flicker]

Honestly not even surprised, after seeing pictures of AA Shermans I knew there were going to be arty variations

[plucky summit]

I don't calculate Uprising stuff but Jagdtiger is a good place to start

[valid gale]

M44 artillery:

[safe cedar]

The FT-17, why?

[balmy compass]

if you read my later message you would see that I was mistaken okay

[violet timber]

The FT-17 is not the first modern tank…

[misty wing]

Isn't grille HE the highest dpm

[opaque flicker]

I thiiink..

[safe cedar]

it kinda is, it's the vehicle that set the standard design Philosophy of the tank.

[misty wing]

I guess AP is a better metric though

[violet timber]

The compartments are in the same place, but that doesn’t make it the first modern tank

[rigid thunder]

It was, jagdtiger now holds that spot

[safe cedar]

Maybe from a mechanic perspective, but from a larger scope, it was the first "real" tank.

[opaque flicker]

I love how every sturm tank is just tigers with nightmarishly large guns on them and with the turret removed

[violet timber]

So the land ships aren’t real tanks?

[blissful hamlet]

It was the first tank with the standard layout, the first having an turret

[violet timber]

That does not make it a modern tank

[balmy compass]

I thought modern ment MBT 💀

[blissful hamlet]

It does, for the WW1 era

[opaque flicker]

Landship is the original name for the tank, tank was the codename for it

[violet timber]

The first modern tank is definitely the Centurion, though some will argue it’s the Panther

[plucky summit]

Lol, and they include an image of another tank

[safe cedar]

Ye, no. The first mbt maybe, but the first modern tank, no.

[violet timber]

Modern configuration =/= modern tank

[blissful hamlet]

The Centurion is the first Mbt, not the first modern one

[plucky summit]

The internet ain't got no dang idea what they talkin bout 💀

[balmy compass]

fr 💀

[violet timber]

The MBT is the modern tank, therefore the first MBT is the first modern tank

[misty wing]

Modern tank != main battle tank

[blissful hamlet]

I think you need this thing here > ≠
But still, the first mbt isn't the first modern tank

[safe cedar]

No, the first modern tank, with a gun housed in a revolving turret, with tracks and armour, would in fact be the FT 17.

[violet timber]

If we aren’t going to say it’s the centurion, I’d argue the first modern tank is the T-64

[blissful hamlet]

First gen MBTs aren't the first modern tanks

[violet timber]

And yet that’s not a modern tank

[safe cedar]

I think you misunderstand the term "modern".

[blissful hamlet]

So, what's your definition of modern tank?

[thick trout]

Defining modern to be the first tank that had a gun in a turret is a very very strange take

[violet timber]

I already said, MBTs are the modern tank. Therefore, the first MBT would be the first modern tank.

[misty wing]

A modern tank is just something that embodies the role of being an armored vehicle on tracks with the gun in the turret

[thick trout]

Do you call model T fords modern cars?

[blissful hamlet]

Maybe, but history took its way through the idea and here we are

[safe cedar]

From a current relative perspective no, from a historical perspective yes.

[valid gale]

The correct view would be the FT-17 is the father of all turreted tanks without it turreted designs may have taken longer to emerge

[violet timber]

I’d say the first modern tank would be the Centurion or the T-64

[misty wing]

Ford model T had the bicycle esque tires so no

[thick trout]

Both tanks and cars are relatively modern inventions, but that doesn't mean that the first of them is modern, in fact it means quite the opposite

[safe cedar]

The FT-17 more or less defined what a tank was, most tanks that came after it were more or less built to its same design Philosophy.

[plucky summit]

Clearly since Model T didn't drive itself, it's not modern 🗿

[violet timber]

The Merkava isn’t a modern tank, it doesn’t follow the FT-17 layout 😔

[dapper violet]

The vk 168.01 is objectively worse I heard, and the side skirt armor shows that. The frontal armor has one additional weak spot and less cupola armor, with no advantages. The side skirt armor is down 100mm > 100mm from 200mm. Its not a good tank I heard, and al those debenefits are just for 50 more hp - ignoring the nerf of immense size.

[blissful hamlet]

Considering a era where the only tanks were huge boxes with lots of guns everywhere, the FT 17 is truly modern

[plucky summit]

You buy 168 for gravity mode, that's the point

[dapper violet]

same gun

just get the vk 100.01 I heard, or grind...? credits with the vk 168.01

[blissful hamlet]

Tiger isn't a N tank
It's a machine, it can't be part of an political group, but it's better not bringing this topic here

But yeah, Tiger II still decent

[radiant vale]

tiger 2 still a great tank in t8

[thick trout]

For "modern" to have any actual useful meaning, you would want it to complement "classic", "retro" etc which are generally interpreted to span a longer amount of time.

The FT exists right at the start of tank development, so calling that modern means nearly everything is modern, which is just redundant use of the word. Tanks are modern inventions because there is a much larger period of the history of inventions without tanks. 10 year old cars are modern because there is a much larger history of cars without the latest ones. Where you define modern to be exactly is a little arbitrary but it's not towards the start of the topic you are talking about.

[safe cedar]

even the impact alone of it, after WW1, look at every nations first tanks, most of them were based of the FT-17. It really defined the role, and design of what makes something a "tank".

[fleet berry]

MraC#6437 was banned

[plucky summit]

I saw that one coming, ouch

[thick trout]

Mayo getting here fast ♥️

[violet timber]

It didn’t really define what a tank was, it just became the basis for better designs

[safe cedar]

Maybe modern wouldn't be the best descriptor, but the FT-17 certainly set the standard mold for many tanks to come after it.

[blissful hamlet]

Yeah, the Otsu, the Cruiser and Vickers LTs, the T1 and other american tanks, even the legendary MS-1, aka T-18 was an copy of the FT

[plucky summit]

Yeah, and primitive caves are modern houses

See the problem?

[safe cedar]

It redefined it much more than any other tank in history. Certainly more than the Panther or Centurion.

[violet timber]

Tanks are defined by doctrine. They don’t have to have turrets at all, nor tracks.

[lyric oriole]

T1 and Leichtraktor definitely took it a different direction tbf

[thick trout]

There's definitely a word that fits better but I can't think of it because I'm doing the stupid rn I'll think of it in a sec

[plucky summit]

Just because it's the baseline of a modern concept, doesn't mean it was the first modern thing within said concept

[thick trout]

PIONEER
My brain worked (aka I googled it)

[plucky summit]

Eureka! 😂

[safe cedar]

Tanks are fully tracked armored fighting vehicles that have a turret mounted main gun.

[violet timber]

No, they are not. Tanks are usually something that supports the infantry. They do not have to have tracks or turrets.

[lyric oriole]

Yes they do

If it has wheels it's an APC

[safe cedar]

So would the panhard ebr be a tank?

[violet timber]

It could be if doctrine defined it as one

[blissful hamlet]

So, The RR Armored car is a tank?

[thick trout]

Yeah the definition of a tank is definitely very arguable, you have things like the modern strvs and the ww1 tanks that don't have turrets but are still arguably tanks

[safe cedar]

Doctrine is relative.

[plucky summit]

Doctrine didn't define it as one.

[lyric oriole]

If you're argument is "It could be if the definition was different" then you have not baseline

[valid gale]

If it has wheels it’s either an APC or a tank destroyer

[violet timber]

Charles Moran, aka the chieftain, has said on multiple occasions that tanks are defined by doctrine. They don’t have to have tracks or turrets, they are just given those because it makes achieving their missions easier.

[radiant vale]

if you want you can call all armoured vehicles as tank(x

[plucky summit]

I'm fine with #2, though I might take "heavily" over "heavy"

[blissful hamlet]

So, a armored truck is a tank?

[valid gale]

“Alright men I’ll be sending these AGS Stryker tanks in your frontal advance don’t worry they’ll be fine”

[violet timber]

It could be

[radiant vale]

amx 13 : I have some words to say

[lyric oriole]

I slapped some cardboard on my Big wheel and mounted a hand gun, is that a tank?

[plucky summit]

It's still heavily armored, made relative to small-arms gunfire

[violet timber]

If your country had nothing else, yes, it could be a tank

[lyric oriole]

So you are just trolling is what you are saying

[blissful hamlet]

For its size, it's relatively heavy, if you consider it has around the size of a car and a bit more than 10 tons, and it's protected by armor plates, nothing wrong

[radiant vale]

what about this one, it can tank 30mm gun

[violet timber]

Not sure how that’s trolling tbh

[lyric oriole]

You just said this could be considered a tank

[violet timber]

The chieftain, someone who works for WG, has said that tanks are defined by doctrine.

[plucky summit]

I'm saying that having any armor will allow it to be defined as a tank, but that it just is one due to being armored

[thick trout]

A couple of my (much more knowledgeable/nerdy) friends had this discussion about the strv 103 a little bit back and it ended up concluding that there isn't a definitive definition for a tank, going off doctrine is too easy to be interpreted and going off actual mechanical parts excludes too many things so the best thing to do is use common sense

[blissful hamlet]

You know that would be just personal opinion?

[violet timber]

Then in my opinion a tank is defined by doctrine.

[safe cedar]

ok then what makes the AMX AUF 1 artillery, the AMX 30 a tank, the BMP-1 an ifv.

[plucky summit]

Nobody really has the right to define what a tank is, no?

Who gave Wargaming, and by extension, Chieftain, that right? 😳

[violet timber]

Doctrine…

[radiant vale]

well 'tank' is really just a concept not a really specific word, depends on the role of the vehicle
just like "gun", it can mean small arms , howitzer, naval gun, anti-air gun that everything that has barrel and shooting projectile

[blissful hamlet]

And what makes the UE just a tractor

[plucky summit]

UE still blocks small-arms

[safe cedar]

So if I decided to now use my AMX auf 1 as front line vehicles they are suddenly tank, but when they aren't, they are not classified as tank?

[thick trout]

Bad news for a t-rex that comes against it

[plucky summit]

Yeah, poor soul can't even block UE's shell neither

[violet timber]

Yes, that is what I have been saying

A tank isn’t really a thing, it’s more of a role on the battlefield

[safe cedar]

if you are defining by doctrine then FT-17 would still be the first real tank. 😉

[violet timber]

Not the first modern tank. 😉

Also there’s still the land ships.

[safe cedar]

Then how did the Centurion revolutionize tank design? Or what about the Panther is so radically différént.

[blissful hamlet]

The landships are just big and sluggish moving targets with guns all around

[coral shadow]

I've come across players who type rudely insulting others.

[violet timber]

The MBT concept was revolutionary

[radiant vale]

there is three design of tanks in origin:
mark 1
a7v
renault
and renault shows it is the better design, so the tanks before ww1 all using a hull with a 360 turret

[safe cedar]

Landships are essentially the modern manifestation of médiéval seige weapons.

[blissful hamlet]

But what the Centurion has that is revolutionary?
Armor?
Mobility?
Firepower?
Reliability?

[violet timber]

It is generally considered the first MBT…

[thick trout]

So battering rams are modern because landships are based of those? 👀

[radiant vale]

if you need to say centurion actually is not really the first MBT, but T54 is

[violet timber]

If you’re claiming T-54 as the first MBT, I counter with Panther

[thick trout]

You also don't need something to be revolutionary to be modern, like you wouldn't call a random 2022 hatchback anything but a modern car, but it's not necessarily revolutionary

[safe cedar]

How did you manage to deduce that?

[violet timber]

Also if you consider the FT-17 the first modern tank because of its layout, that means front/mid engine tanks such as the Merkava aren’t modern

[safe cedar]

So a 2010 VAZ 2105 would be considered à modern car in 2010? No, à New car, yes, modern, no.

[plucky summit]

Careful there, my guy

[blissful hamlet]

Are you asking to be bonked?

[plucky summit]

Alright then
<@&481447501690568709>

[violet timber]

Can Mayo come back?

[fleet berry]

TomTomChild#0184 was banned

WD#3496 was banned

[forest ermine]

Big nopes

[violet timber]

Well, that was effective

[plucky summit]

I see Amaunet had some camo nets on her 183

[blissful hamlet]

Well, problem solved, now we can return to the topic

[radiant vale]

183 get double kill🥴

[forest ermine]

My Camaunet is very effective ;)

[thick trout]

It's identical to something 40 years old, so you wouldn't call it modern

[plucky summit]

😂

[radiant vale]

well, 'modern' is a concept too tho

[safe cedar]

Not just layout, there is still a commander In a cupola, a single driver controlling the tracks, a rotating turret housing a cannon, armour, both have tracks, both the same objective to combine armour, mobility, and fire power onto a affordable mass producable format, and both serve the same role as acting as a spearhead of combined arms Assualts.

[violet timber]

Mass production isn’t exactly a goal of modern tanks unless it’s Russian or Chinese it seems

[plucky summit]

Well a reliable tank to produce, really, since budgets become the limit

[radiant vale]

mostly there is a lots of words just a concept, just depends on what you think, you think what it is, then what it is, just like.....
french navy, they has no role of "destroyer" but has the similiar role but with the name "frigate"

[safe cedar]

Name a country who makes each individual tank by hand, ie not mass produced.

[plucky summit]

Don't ignore the "mass" in mass produced

[violet timber]

Mass production involves the making of large quantities. Western countries tend to focus more on quality over quantity. If you have 5 very good tanks, they should be able to beat 20 mediocre tanks

[blissful hamlet]

And don't bring about prototypes

[safe cedar]

name a tank (prototypes aside) that isn't mass produced.

[radiant vale]

mass produced means the prototypes is with mature design so you can just produce more about it base on the prototype and with improvements

[solid gate]

Hello

[blissful hamlet]

And most tanks used on conflicts aren't mass produced?

[violet timber]

The US has made approx. 10k Abrams in 40 years. Compared to the 50k Sherman’s made in around 3 years, the Abrams isn’t mass produced.

[oak stag]

Is KPZ 70 still op?

[thick trout]

If you look at that definition and drop one of the restrictions and read the rest and still end up with something you'd call a tank then you'll probably end up with just armour+firepower+ability to move which is extremely vague and not useful, which just goes to show how easy it is for definitions like this to be manipulated

And there's not that many armatas about, I wouldn't call double digits mass production

[plucky summit]

What do you mean "still" OP?

[safe cedar]

less than 10k were likely made, and yes the Abrams is still mass produced.

[safe cedar]

Armata is still a prototype it hasn't entered service yet...

[blissful hamlet]

10k isn't a small amount of units

[plucky summit]

You can mass produce something and not use it, thought it would be a dumb idea

[radiant vale]

chieftain is the only advanced NATO tank that can really fight face to face against soviet mbt at that time, with a number of 900 mades for UK, this is not a mass produced tank?

[violet timber]

Israel has made around 2k merkavas in about 40 years

[blissful hamlet]

I was going to say about demand but nvm

[radiant vale]

so challenger 2 & Ariete with just about each 200 tanks produced, this is not a mass produced?

[safe cedar]

the sturmtiger for example wasn't mass produced, but something like the Tiger II is.

[oak stag]

yes it is wkwkwk

[plucky summit]

It's not OP at all

[blissful hamlet]

Even if it's 2k, did they produce them using production lines or they're all handmade?

[oak stag]

because I get KPZ 70 from crate collect them all

[thick trout]

It's generally accepted that it's out of its prototype phase yet and it's prepared to go into service although everything is a little rumour based, but there's still very low order numbers no matter who you believe

[safe cedar]

Yeah, and the actual quantity is entirely irrelevant as long as an entire batch of identical tanks were made in a factory.

[radiant vale]

anything that produce more base on prototype can call 'mass produced'

[plucky summit]

You can mass produce handmade products

[thick trout]

Yeaaahhhh that's another very weird interpretation

[violet timber]

That doesn’t matter

[blissful hamlet]

Yeah, but when it comes to military machinery, it's a bit hard, maybe maybe maybe not impossible

[radiant vale]

whatever you just produced 10 or 20 about it, but you still base on prototype and made 10 or 20 same as prototype but with improvements, it still can be considered as 'mass produced'

[plucky summit]

Mass production flows so far out from just the military, so maybe we can use other examples to help?

[valid gale]

The spork industrial complex

[safe cedar]

The sturmtiger would be an example of a armored vehicle that wasn't mass produced, each vehicle being somewhat unique and following no exact set pattern.

[violet timber]

The actual quantity is very relevant. If I produce 10 tanks using a factory, is that mass production?

[radiant vale]

mass produced is a concept too, whatever you produce how many stuffs base on the prototype

[blissful hamlet]

So, the production method don't matter?

[plucky summit]

It's just that assembly lines are a more practical way to quickly reproduce repetitive work that humans shouldn't practically be doing

[violet timber]

No, no it does not

[safe cedar]

If they were identical, made using factory machinery, and are part of serial production yes.

[radiant vale]

if you has a prototype, you produce base on the prototype design, and it has enter service, yes

[violet timber]

So you would consider 10 a large quantity?

[valid gale]

It kinda does it’s far faster to produce hulls with cast methods than welding them

[violet timber]

That’s true, but you can still mass produce items by hand. Mass production doesn’t have to be in a factory

[safe cedar]

Not necessarily, quantity is relative. But for example the Panzer III was mass produced no? Only about 10-20 panzer III A were produced.

[plucky summit]

They meant in defining "mass production"

Of course it matters how it's made if the methods are effectively different, but production method shouldn't really define "mass production"

[violet timber]

But you just said 10 tanks made in a factory was mass production?

[valid gale]

You can’t that’s the point craftmade equipment is the bane of economics and military standardization Germany heavily suffered from this from too many craft made equipment

[radiant vale]

I had said, if they are produce base on prototype, and they has enter service, then yes

[violet timber]

So 10 is a large quantity to you?

[lyric oriole]

I'm at work

[blissful hamlet]

So, would you mass produce tanks by hand?

[plucky summit]

Don't worry, Amaunet came to the rescue

[radiant vale]

is it mass product or not never depends on how many you made

[violet timber]

All good, hope your work is going well

[plucky summit]

You can slowly and painfully mass produce something 🤷‍♂️

[violet timber]

Mass production depends entirely on how much you make. It’s called mass production for a reason.

[safe cedar]

So you say the IS-4 wasn't mass produced?

[radiant vale]

even you just made 1 per month, but still has a standardized article, it is mass production too

[violet timber]

They built around 200-250 in 2 years, so no, I don’t really think it was mass produced

[safe cedar]

So then the leclerc wasn't mass produced.

[plucky summit]

Alright, where should we draw the line?

Time shouldn't define mass production, but quantity should, so what's the lucky number?

[violet timber]

No, I don’t think so

[safe cedar]

Quantity is irrelevant, circumstances are

[radiant vale]

ok, there is a better example, I use Royal Navy as example
royal navy build just 6 type 45 ddg, but all of them design are same
is this a mass produced ship? YES

[plucky summit]

Which circumstances?

[thick trout]

I think what they are getting at is that time and quantity don't define mass production, so making one with the possibility to make others the same way is mass production._.

[solid gate]

Hello

[blissful hamlet]

Well, even producing a batch of like 5 per month, still a programmed production, you don't produce x units because it's a cool number

[violet timber]

So if I make one thing to a standard, that thing is mass produced?

[radiant vale]

if your prototype is considered as the standard and had start the production line, it is too

[safe cedar]

Is it in sustained production for any amount for time? Is it standardized? Is it made in batches rather than individually.

[violet timber]

Do you see how that is flawed?

[valid gale]

The prototype is never identical to the produced model

[safe cedar]

So you would argue the first batch of T-34s wasn't mass produced?

[thick trout]

Now we are getting somewhere lol
The circumstances are very easy to change, so having one fixed definition isn't useful in the slightest, you need nuance and an open mind to consider what is actually useful to refer to as mass production

Like the ships someone said above would likely be considered mass produced, but then coach-built cars to the same spec would likely be considered not mass produced.

[violet timber]

I would argue that the T-34 tank is mass produced.

[plucky summit]

What if it takes about 6 years to make a space ship to fight a war in the solar system in the future? Would you say it can be mass produced, even if I took long enough to make thousands?

Batches help define production, but they don't rely on time, they rely on when it is or isn't being produced

[thick trout]

This is just a lesson in why you should be careful with definitions and why you should keep an open mind

[radiant vale]

but you are in a bad luck such that you just produced one but your factory has been bombared
well, the product that under production line once(

[safe cedar]

Are you making multiple copies in serial production?

[plucky summit]

Yes.

[safe cedar]

Then yes it is mass produced

[blissful hamlet]

And to think that all ofthis started with whether or not to consider the FT 17 as a modern tank

[radiant vale]

there are many words is really just concept, no absolute meaning

[plucky summit]

If anyone wants time involved, then where should the line be drawn? A product per 10 years? 1 year?

[radiant vale]

ship is really something a product per year(x

[safe cedar]

Depends on. The product

[plucky summit]

Now, I do want to stake the claim that mass production shouldn't be defined around how effective it is

[thick trout]

I'd rather not have a definition that you have to specify for every single possible thing you can make, maybe just personal preference but hey

[blissful hamlet]

And here we are, discussing for one hour

[plucky summit]

Should it just be degraded to a buzzword/phrase? We only need "production", the mass just spices the idea up

[radiant vale]

it really just depends on it has a standard production line or not & is the product standard compliant or not

[safe cedar]

I mean by his claim that 10k Abrams production wasn't mass produced would be virtually every tank except T-34, Sherman, and T-55-T62-T72, are not mass produced.

[violet timber]

That definition destroys the idea of it being mass production

[radiant vale]

if you want to say
1kg is a mass too

[blissful hamlet]

I think it's because of Foucault, idk if it's the right person

[misty wing]

we should argue about what's the worst tier 8 instead

[plucky summit]

That's easy

T28 Prot.

[violet timber]

Somua and Lorraine are up there

[blissful hamlet]

One of the candidates is the T26E4

[radiant vale]

hmm, good question

[misty wing]

I would rather play any of those than the t-44 100

[foggy spire]

Isn’t it just a normal T44 with side skirts?

[lilac mica]

Ferdinand

[violet timber]

Lots and lots of good tanks here, and by good I mean bad

[blissful hamlet]

Lorraine isn't that bad for what i've seen

[plucky summit]

The sideskirts nerf the side armor

[thick trout]

Loses a degree on gun depression and a bit of speed iirc

[violet timber]

It heavily struggles to get out meaningful damage

[misty wing]

worse mobility and 5 degrees of gun depression (loses 2 actually)

[foggy spire]

Oof.

[grave goblet]

How to angle KV-1S

[thick trout]

Actually 2°, and 50hp too

[blissful hamlet]

Not really, better than the SPershing

[empty moat]

блиц хуйня

[thick trout]

Sp at least gets depression and a bit of armour although it pays quite a bit for that

[violet timber]

Mmmm idk, I think I’d rather play the Spersh than the Lorraine

[blissful hamlet]

A bit like accuracy, dpm and a good amount of mobility
For 2° and a some armor

[solid gate]

Siemka

[dreamy moss]

What do you think about the Shadowhunter?

[misty wing]

T28 prot at least has a good gun and can bully stock/lower tier players who don't know what they're doing
T-44/100 is just a worse version of a tech tree tank that is already heavily powercrept

[plucky summit]

Oh that was a joke, I said it was easy

[misty wing]

shadowhunter kinda sucks imo

[thick trout]

Sp actually gets more dpm (and pen) than the t-44-100, and the accuracy and mobility aren't a huge help because on the T-44-100 they aren't great either

[blissful hamlet]

Well, yeah, but i still remember wg wanting to nerf its top speed.
also, i was referring to Lorrie

[foggy spire]

Worst T9 heavy?

[plucky summit]

50 120? I guess

@lilac mica stock is cheating

[lilac mica]

Stock ST-I

[misty wing]

amx 50 120

[violet timber]

^^^

[quick vault]

._.

[safe cedar]

How?

[lilac mica]

lmao

[solid gate]

Hello

[safe cedar]

Ye, no Lorraine and Somua are both solid.

[solid gate]

How

[violet timber]

Mmmmm no, they really aren’t

[plucky summit]

You can't rely on the gun, which is the only decently good thing about the tank

[thick trout]

I'd go with the wz 1-4, 50120 at least has the potential to do damage

[safe cedar]

Decent mobility and a great gun? It's solid.

[blissful hamlet]

Accuracy isn't that great

[foggy spire]

I thought it was pretty decent.

[plucky summit]

WZ can at least block shots by hulldown, or at the least, delay enemy shot sagainst it with hulldown

[safe cedar]

True, the gun is still very solid, decent pen and alpha, and it has useable accuracy.

[violet timber]

Armor is horrid, mobility isn’t the best, gun is actually decent

[plucky summit]

A tank that plays like 50 120 is hard to fit into tier 9, let alone tier 10

[foggy spire]

So the M-5-Yoh is better than the AMX 50 120?

[plucky summit]

Easily

[safe cedar]

Imo Emil II is the worst tier IX heavy, which is hard because none of them are particularly bad

[thick trout]

Yeah but no depression, chunky cupolas and a disappointing gun (only beats 50100 in alpha, nothing else)

[blissful hamlet]

Perfect to bonk close enemies that are engaging other tanks, but not that great at other things

[thick trout]

Nah Emil is fantastic until you try play it like a kran against TDs or tier 10s

[violet timber]

That’s the issue, tier 9 is filled with some good tech tree heavies and broken premium ones

[foggy spire]

Eh, I kinda like it. The armor is good until the enemies shoot 330+mm of premium pen. Gun is decent, but the DPM is terrible.

[plucky summit]

I hated Emil II, despite how it performed

[violet timber]

I love Emil 2, not sure why it gets so much hate

[foggy spire]

IMO the best T9 tech tree heavy is the M-5-Yoh. Good gun and troll turret armor.

[brave juniper]

I like St Emil too when I get up tier to t9

[plucky summit]

Not sure about that, E75 is a good one

[thick trout]

It's a boring tank to play for most people for sure

[violet timber]

I’d go with the E75 personally 🤷‍♂️

[blissful hamlet]

Well, i really liked the 50TP

[safe cedar]

IS-8 might be a contester actually, I like it but lost people dont.

[thick trout]

752 or are we counting that as a guest tier 10 lol

[foggy spire]

I personally like the YOH more for better hulldown capabilities and the turret being more resilient to gold spam.

[violet timber]

IS-8 is great, and it’s getting a buff

[plucky summit]

They said tech tree, so 752 wouldn't apply unless that restriction was removed

[blissful hamlet]

With a bit of aiming, it's easy to pen the turret base

[thick trout]

Oops can't read

[misty wing]

I don't know about that, kpz 70 is mediocre imo

[violet timber]

Out of the premiums though, I’d personally have to go with the best tier 9 medium aka the 50TP proto

[plucky summit]

I like me a K-91 though

[misty wing]

nah Object 752 clears easily

[blissful hamlet]

Both 50TPs are really good

[violet timber]

I think I’d love the K-91, but unfortunately I don’t have it

[plucky summit]

I mean, yeah 752 is the best tier 9, but between the two premiums, K-91 works

[misty wing]

I actually don't really like it that much

[foggy spire]

Obj 752 is my favorite T9 heavy.

[blissful hamlet]

I really like the 752, but i also love the prototyp

[misty wing]

moonco just likes all the broken tanks, no surprises there

[lilac mica]

I’m considering buying 752 next time tbh

[plucky summit]

If you buy any tier 9, it's gotta be 752

[blissful hamlet]

Well, i bought mine, for 17k
Paid my t9 ht for another t9 ht

[solid gate]

Hi

[short quartz]

Can anyone tell me how much gold we need for pharaoh key?

[lilac mica]

Next time it will be like 13-14k probably but 17k for it I wouldn’t mind

[plucky summit]

It will tell you within the event, just click on the level that has the key

[foggy spire]

I dislike the VK 4502 B a lot. IDK why. Something about the rear turret doesn’t agree with me.

[lilac mica]

And if you buy any tier 10? (not tech tree related)

[blissful hamlet]

I would like to get something like the Keiler, but imma try getting the M54 first

[safe cedar]

It doesn't perform great in post people's hands.

[short quartz]

Idk can't find it just tell me amount of gold for another key (pharaoh event)

[plucky summit]

I personally love mle 54, but I think there are better choices

@short quartz another key will cost you $$$

[blissful hamlet]

You can just open the crate for 1350 gold

[misty wing]

VK 45b is really good

[short quartz]

Oki tysm

[lilac mica]

Interesting choice, yeah like Vk 90, Concept, v4 for example

[foggy spire]

Easiest tanks to master?

[plucky summit]

Pz. II J

[blissful hamlet]

I know, but since i saw it on the Yuletide Express, it's a bit hard to choose another tank over it

[thick trout]

Gsor and panther 2 were the ones I went to, also fun to play so that helps lol

[foggy spire]

I wish they could buff the Luchs back to its 2017 stats. Was super fun.

[plucky summit]

It's still fun

[lilac mica]

What was the stats again in 2017

[foggy spire]

It used to have 8 shells in a clip instead of 4 nowadays. Could do like 250 damage in 1 clip at T4. Plus has 95mm of standard pen.

[plucky summit]

It still has the highest DPM in tier 4
And all tier 5 modules, lol

[misty wing]

I just remember it used to have the leo's gun but with 1 less shell

[thick trout]

Hence why they nerfed it to stop sealclubbers

[lilac mica]

Cries in A-20

[plucky summit]

Yeah I thought Luchs shot 9 per, 3x3

[foggy spire]

Was my first tank to get 5 kills. Easy wins.

[compact eagle]

Who is your favorite tank in wotb?

[lilac mica]

Ah yes, stronk indeed

[blissful hamlet]

It's like the 100Y, t6 tank with all modules being t8

[plucky summit]

Lowe

[foggy spire]

That was the T5 Leopard. Luchs shot 2x4.

[rigid summit]

I struggle bounching shells with is 4

[compact eagle]

I love that one but couldn't get it

[plucky summit]

Try to go hulldown as much as you can

[rigid summit]

Thanks

[compact eagle]

Or the Defender Mk.1

[foggy spire]

I love that tank. Was my first T8 premium. Got it from the epic crate that you get once a week.

[plucky summit]

Me too

[safe cedar]

Tier X mediums ranked?

[violet timber]

Lowe is still one of my most played tanks. I went winning one of bushka’s 2v2 tournaments with it

[plucky summit]

I used it to grind for AMX CDC, I was playing all day just to get it x-x

[solid gate]

Hellou people

[lone herald]

Sup

[solid gate]

@lone herald co sup

[plucky summit]

I'm noticing a trend in random people saying hello/hi 🤔
Is there some event that advertises this server?

[blissful hamlet]

I can't tell since i only have 3 of them

[lilac mica]

I used to love that tank now it’s taking dust

[plucky summit]

AMX CDC is really fun as a medic for a Panther II platoonmate in MG

[lilac mica]

I agree with that, I just don’t use it in normal battles but in fun modes yes

[plucky summit]

Pretty sure I had like an 80% WR by doing that

[misty wing]

is caliban gonna be toxic in this game

[lilac mica]

No doubts on that

[plucky summit]

Anything that deals more than 640 in tier 8 is toxic

[misty wing]

I feel like they should give the ISU the same treatment as PC

[lilac mica]

What’s the treatment on PC?

[plucky summit]

Armor inspector won't log me in =(

[misty wing]

removed BL-10 for the D-4S with less pen
I believe it received more hp as compensation

[plucky summit]

Reduce pen, add HP, that's probably the net buff ISU needs

[lilac mica]

"Reduce pen"
Ok yeah, anyways it got a strong prammo so I don’t mind in exchange of HPs

[misty wing]

the D-4S has 260/292 pen btw

[lilac mica]

Nice

[misty wing]

which is still like best in class on the standard lol

[foggy spire]

Here’s my tier list of meds. 907 is S tier BTW.

[plucky summit]

Tied with AMX AX mle. 48, which is bad

[misty wing]

I believe the swedes and kanonen would beat that on PC though

[plucky summit]

No way that 907 is S tier lol

[misty wing]

No way 907 is S tier and the E50M isn't lol
Also you have to either make use of all the tiers or delete D and F
that's just how tier lists work

[foggy spire]

Wait, how do I delete them? I just made this list in like 3 minutes.

[plucky summit]

The options? ._.

[misty wing]

Go into "edit" and just delete the name of the tier

[violet timber]

907 S tier but 140 B tier?

[plucky summit]

Try to rank Kpz 50t lol

[misty wing]

also that looks like the AMX 30 1er not the 30b

[foggy spire]

Updated list.

[blissful hamlet]

I agree with the 121 being at A tier
Also, where's the 907?

[misty wing]

T-62A and Object 140 up, T-22 down, STB down

[foggy spire]

I personally don’t believe the 140 to be great. B is the good category.

[slim coral]

Well, it's good but...hoping I won't get murdered for expressing my own opinion, I think the Progetto 65 could be moved to A
The autoreloader just gives it a more flexible playstyle

[misty wing]

well it's better than the t-22 and STB, so

[foggy spire]

STB is more versatile with the much better gun depression. Though the accuracy is meh so I’ll move the STB to lower A.

[thick trout]

Tier 10 meds are very specific to playstyle and how good you actually are so it's not much use listening to what other people say

[slim coral]

T10 like pretty much every tier is mostly subjective, and it's just people leaving opinions in

Any tank can be OP if the user is good enough afterall.

[misty wing]

it's less so the accuracy and more so the DPM. It doesn't have much going for it compared to the M60 besides 1 more degree of gun depression
Obj 140 has a unique playstyle and has a high ceiling with that DPM without being as huge and vulnerable as the leo

STB also has extremely mediocre effective pw/w

[violet timber]

^^^ I personally think the 140 is great, but someone less skilled or not as used to lightly armored tanks may not see it the same way

[thick trout]

Other tiers and tanks are a bit more uniform, meds at tier 10 have a nice wide range. Like if you aren't a good player you will hate the 30b and Leo and think they suck, but if you are good you'll probably love them and appreciate how well they can be used, but for things like the E50 it's pretty much universally thought if as a good tank

[foggy spire]

140 only has DPM and mobility. The armor isn’t there after the change. That’s why I group it as B. Doesn’t mean it’s bad, but it harder to use. This is a general list.

[misty wing]

E50M is so strong because it doesn't actually sacrifice anything in the firepower and mobility departments to have that strong armor profile
I mean I guess it has lower alpha now, but it's still very much middle of the pack in DPM

[foggy spire]

I took into account a tank’s mobility, armor, firepower, and ease of use when making the list to make it a general list.

[misty wing]

DPM and mobility is more than what the STB has
and the T-22's armor just doesn't really work anymore

[thick trout]

E50 suffers in flexibility and abusable armour, it's reliable enough just not something you can take and expect to bounce everything and it's bloody gigantic.
It's for sure good but not outstanding

[misty wing]

E50M is the most flexible medium what

[thick trout]

Wut it doesn't have great gun depression, it's gigantic and it can't attack more than one tank at once otherwise it's paper
Also not as fast as some of the others too

[foggy spire]

The turret is still solid, making it easier to hulldown. That’s why I put it at bottom A tier. I also take into account for ease of use. 140 is near top B tier.

[misty wing]

E50M has 8 gun depression, which is decent enough
It's tankier than other meds and can be that bully type tank against other meds and lower tier tanks, while still having the mobility and DPM to be an effective flanker/scout. That's what I mean by it's the most flexible

[foggy spire]

8 degrees is the same as the M48 Patton. So enough gun depression to work a good amount of ridgelines. The DPM is still solid, and the armor when hulldown is very hard to deal with as a medium. Plus the mobility is fast enough to catch most T10 mediums.

[safe cedar]

Honestly keep the BL-10 it's nice.

[misty wing]

I don't know why you'd ever want to sacrifice the mobility and gun handling the 140 has to have the t-22's armor profile. It's not a good trade off
It also has way worse shell velocity for whatever reason

[thick trout]

I mean that's just two roles it can do that doesn't make it that flexible
And looking at its armour against meds when most tanks aren't meds isn't particularly good, so you can only hold positions against other meds. There's other tanks that have better depression to work many more angles and better mobility to move positions, as well as not being a gigantic target anytime you aren't facing exactly forwards

[foggy spire]

I said ease of use also is what I’m grading too. The average player will do better in a T-22. A skilled player will do better in a 140, but I want to include other players too.

[misty wing]

2 roles is more than 1 (most other meds)

what do you consider the most flexible med if the E50M is inflexible

[fierce inlet]

what's the tank at c tier

[misty wing]

the mobility is easier to use than armor tbh
having mobility makes tanks so braindead to play, it makes it less punishing to go for aggressive gamble plays at the beginning of rounds

[foggy spire]

The AMX 30B. Doesn’t have really anything going for it.

[safe cedar]

30b:

[thick trout]

I mean you have things like the 30b which can spot much much better, flank much better and hulldown on a similar level
Then things like the STb which can spot on a similar level, flank on a similar level and hulldown better
Then things like the T62 which can spot better, hulldown similarly and flank similarly.
E50 works as a bully and can just about pass itself off as other things at a stretch but other tanks can actually fill multiple roles well

[thick trout]

Speed, gun depression and some usable armour?

[foggy spire]

30B has much less reliable armor, and the DPM is tragic. It has better gun depression, sure, but there’s a massive cupola. Speed is nice, but it isn’t the fastest T10 after they nerfed the speed to 62KM. Anything it does is worst then another T10. It’s the worst T10 medium for a reason.

[misty wing]

ah yes, let me get to the flank 2 seconds quicker only to have less DPM so I can't farm as hard when I get there

[safe cedar]

30b can't hulldown remotely as well as E-50m

[fierce inlet]

what about the wz 121

[misty wing]

I think you underestimate the mobility and DPM of the E50M, and its turret is pretty much unpennable to standard ammo

[foggy spire]

Good brawling medium. Can outrade other mediums and has troll armor.

The 30B turret cheeks are only 225mm thick while the 50M cheeks are 290mm. So much less reliable.

[misty wing]

STB is straight up a worse flanker than e50m. worse dpm, worse mobility

[thick trout]

It's the "worst T10" because you called it that lol
The playstyle of the 30b means it's dpm isn't important, it's not for farming it's for map control and pressure which it does excellently until you try use it like a Leo. The off-centre cupola is great for baiting shots making the armour even better, and the speed is excellent the tiny nerf made next to no difference.

@safe cedar We've literally already had this conversation, 30b is more succeptible to standard but E50 is paper against prammo and 30b stays exactly the same. Also those cheeks are much much smaller on the 30b and it has 50% better hp to wiggle with, as well as the accuracy to hit when wiggling

[thick trout]

Better dispersion on the move, better silhouette, slightly worse hp/t and dpm makes it comparable

[foggy spire]

No. E50M is just a better 30B. The armor can bounce medium pramo unless they use calibrated, and a lot of mediums use rammer. The upper front plate is 300+mm thick, impenetrable to medium pramo. DPM is much better, and the cupola if the 30B is easy to hit for a good player.

[thick trout]

They are played as entirely different tanks, one requires skill to work the other needs pretty much no thinking. The 30b is significantly more flexible, whether you can actually work with its flexibility to more than make up for where it lacks compared to the E50 or not is up to the player but it's entirely possible

[misty wing]

E50M turret is not paper to pramo

[fierce inlet]

You're saying the 30b is better than the e50m?

[misty wing]

30b is extremely inflexible if anything. poor armor and dpm means it can't be very self sufficient

[safe cedar]

"Suspectible to prammo"

[thick trout]

Looks pretty paper to me

@fierce inlet for good players that play it right, yes. For anyone else no.

[foggy spire]

No. Skilled players prefer the 50M far more. The armor and better firepower makes the 50M more flexible then the 30B. Your turret cheeks and cupola are huge, making your turret crap.

[foggy spire]

An E50M won’t be fighting heavies most of the time. It fights other mediums on medium side. There the mediums will struggle to fight against an E50M.

[thick trout]

Since when is self sufficiency related to flexibility??

@foggy spire The turret works very well in its role which is not sitting still and holding. It's worse against meds, but better against heavies and TDs and games are mostly not meds

[thick trout]

Also just saying a group of people prefers one tank with nothing to back it up at all isn't a particularly good idea btw

[misty wing]

because flexibility relates to being able to maintain competency when you're not in the perfect situation you might desire (aka your team sucks, you can't hulldown, etc)

[foggy spire]

No, the turret of the 30B is very easy to pen against other mediums. The cheeks are 250mm thick max. So you can pen that sucker with even standard AP shells. E50M at least you have to load gold to have a chance of penning.

[safe cedar]

These tanks have similar Mobility and guns, well 50m gun is better.

[misty wing]

also E50M has far better HE than the STB which solidies it as a better flanker

[thick trout]

But what if I have the ability to put myself in good situations with incredible mobility and depression?

@foggy spire And once you load gold it's an easy pen, for 30b you still have the much larger mantlet and smaller cheeks to aim for and the off-centre cupola which can be very very easily wiggled.

Oh and the mobility isn't similar at all btw, and HE is a very situational thing not just for flanking lol

[blissful hamlet]

Imagine aiming at the cupola and hitting the triplex and not penning

[safe cedar]

Don't forget top of 30b hull is auto pen.

[foggy spire]

“Small cheeks” of the 30B vs the “Large cheeks” of the 50M.

[safe cedar]

I tested it in room, their mobility was very similar, obviously 30b has better acceleration but E50m easily kept pace

[misty wing]

But what if I have the ability to put myself in good situations with incredible mobility and depression?
Then you're doing the exact role you're good at, which isn't flexibility, it's being a one trick pony

[foggy spire]

Mediums even with cali won’t get through a fully hulldown E50M while the AMX 30B will be destroyed by premium spam far easier with the only 279mm of cheek armor. Plus the cheeks of both tanks are roughly the same area.

[misty wing]

flexibility is all about being good at the things that don't come first for you

[thick trout]

It literally accelerates 50% faster, that's not similar

@foggy spire Yes as you can see the 30bs cheeks are smaller than the E50s front turret plate, let alone when you add in the side turret plates

@misty wing So the ability to be useful anywhere in the battle isn't flexibility? Lol that's called being an all-round tank, which can lead to flexibility but isn't necessary at all.

[misty wing]

"being anywhere in the battle" is just having good mobility

[thick trout]

You missed out the "useful" part lol

[foggy spire]

E50M IMO is the most versatile medium. It can brawl, flank, hulldown,

@thick trout Weak sides Huh? Yeah the 30B has about the same size of the cheeks.

[misty wing]

the E50M is more useful in literally every situation except scouting and positions where having the 10 degrees of gun depression matters

[thick trout]

It's funny how people always try to call the 30b trash when its overall performance is average for meds and its top end performance matches top end meds

Yes you literally have 1.5° to work with to keep them over 330, ignoring that the front is going to be an easy pen, assuming you are at max gun depression fighting one tank at a time. And they are still larger lol @foggy spire

@misty wing It's more useful assuming you are sitting in one position which is not how battles work out. Once you work out how to actually use mobility well you can see how useful it is.

[misty wing]

now you're making an argument that the 30b is better, not more flexible

[fierce inlet]

Does the slightly better mobility make that much of a huge difference?

[misty wing]

if you want to make that argument you can, and instead make the argument that flexibility is a useless metric

[thick trout]

The E50 cannot change position anywhere as easily as the 30b so it's obviously not going to be as flexible. Positional play and movement is key to being flexible because if you ain't in a good position you ain't going to be useful. 30b gets top notch flexibility, E50 gets adequate flexibility.

@fierce inlet It's 50% better acceleration and a slightly better top speed to get to, it's a big difference

[misty wing]

you're just talking about positional/map flexibility (which is basically dependent only on mobility and gun dep), which isn't what we're talking about and isn't what the term is used for in a broader sense

[scarlet stump]

I buy type 71,is a great tank but it have weak gun dude 😦

[solid gate]

oops, do you think the E100 is a good tank to play?

[misty wing]

E100 is pretty strong