tank-balance-discussion

[remote oriole]

Heavies don‘t have an increased dpm loss with prammo…

The alpha decrease for prammo was relative and about 15% (because WG‘s statistic showed that people who shot only prammo did about 15% more damage than people who shot only standard).

This means that in absolute terms, because heavies have less dpm to begin with, heavies lose less dpm than mediums. Examples:

Patton:
Standard - 3085;
Premium - 2644;
Difference - 441;
Super Conqueror:
Standard - 2503;
Premium - 2127;
Difference - 376;
T-62A:
Standard - 3154;
Premium - 2645;
Difference - 509;
T110E5:
Standard - 2275;
Premium - 1934;
Difference - 341;

[boreal narwhal]

Medium aren’t just alpha and DPM they’re also maneuverability with the dpm they have along side maneuverability they’re pretty damn good because I can reliably keep heavies tracked (while still doing damage) with a medium but with a heavy I cannot

[uneven narwhal]

Thanks for changing the channel name, whoever that was!

[frail silo]

oh no, a bad heavy player exposed his track wheel and over extended! and the enemy medium was not a dunce and exploited the chance?! what will we do?!!!
yeah mediums are pretty damn good, sure. almost never, or actually are never being used in tours anymore.
every heard of using cover? using your armor? forcing enemies into trades? unless of course they yolo you and obviously die. unless you managed to isolate yourself at which case positioning issue.
mediums aren't even relevant or near broken anymore.
and it is pretty evident in comp and tour meta which class is much superior.

[boreal narwhal]

Are you going to answer the question “I suggested (only) a price change to reduce spam (even across the board), is that too much?”

[full token]

He did sort of answer it. You said mediums were too good with prammo being this affordable. He said mediums aren’t that good compared to heavies

[boreal narwhal]

I mean directly not just throw stats on the screen and go “yup that’s my answer”

[full token]

He can just add that on then lol. Won’t change his answer anyway

[upbeat kestrel]

Buff T110E5

[remote oriole]

Yes, that is asking too much.

Premium ammo spam is not a bad thing. It used to be a bad thing because it allowed you to pay (a lot) for an undeniable advantage. I like to call this „economic pay to win“ or „indirect pay to win“. However, with the prammo rework/ alpha nerf the advantage of prammo has been mitigated, turning it more into a special purpose munition, much akin to HE.

Even if premium ammunition is still superior to standard ammo the advantage is simply too marginal now to justify the price tag they already come with. Looking at the current economy, premium shells are one of the most expensive in-game good you can use in battle, usually making up the bulk of expenses alongside provisions.

The issue I see here is simply that prammo is again used for economic pay to win. If you think back to the great credit economy rework (where all the repair, standard ammo and HE costs were removed) you could see tons of good players suddenly being unable to afford provisions and/ or prammo. This was then mitigated by giving credits for medals.

I want you stop stop and think about this. The underlying economic system remained unchanged. They only added credit awards for epic medals. This means that all the players who don‘t regularly get these epic medals are stuck with an economic system that makes the use of provisions and prammo unaffordable even to good players (it gets worse the worse you are, just saying).

Prammo (special purpose ammo) and provisions give considerable advantages in battle. However, if you don‘t regularly get epic medals you cannot afford to run them, thus forcing you to grind credits with premium time and/ or premium tanks to drive the best setup, which is exactly what I mean when I say economic pay to win.

The goal should be to keep/ make gold rounds a viable choice, not to effectively remove them from the game. If anything, their price should be reduced to zero like the other kinds of ammunition.

[proper mango]

I'd like to talk about an tank that WG didn't give love the IS-8, the IS-8 is really really bad plus 40-30% players=rarely get 1 win and then lose 15 battles so WG pls give this tank an armor buff cus it's armor is like an Vicker RC and the turret is like the E 50M cus getting penned everytime even if the tank is hull down I can still get hit by an grille, WZ-120G FT, and other TD and HT and LT and MT and it's annoying like the turret rarely bounces so pls buff the tank

[vital basalt]

Its not really really bad, its basically medium tank with heavy characteristics, you shouldn't count on its armor, you should go with meds and try to trade with enemy meds, you have more hp and alpha then meds

[drowsy plaza]

@proper mango that’s a user error not a tank deficiency.

[proper mango]

Welp I wanted it to get buff cus always getting penetrated is annoying expecially getting pushed and faced hugged

[scarlet fjord]

I've talked about this several times
the IS-8 is garbage to about 70% of the playerbase to the other 30% who have a more suitable playstyle for it its a 9/10 tank
i am one of those people and i promise you its a medium tank with TD levels of pen for a tier 9 and heavy tank hit points it basically has everything going for it except gun depression dont look at it as a heavy
sometimes it feels like a tier 10 med with bad DPM to me

[proper mango]

Give me a replay on how you guys play the IS-8

[full token]

There’s YT vids too

[glossy phoenix]

if prammo costs too much for you you are simply doing it wrong lol

[little wharf]

BOTTOM TIER CANON FODDER: harder to be influential in a battle; harder to pen higher tier, without hitting the [2] key; therefore, harder to score HP/XP, and definitely harder to earn credits ... in excess of 80% bottom/same tier is biased towards "the WG banker" ...

[remote oriole]

I wish I had your argumentative skills

[winged barn]

What kind of smoothbrain take is this?

[young atlas]

lol, credits are so ez to get stop complaining

[glossy phoenix]

thank you

[remote oriole]

Come back when you understand the argument, not only one sentence of it. The fact that you missed my point by miles is already a red flag that you will only waste my time

[whole flower]

How can we balance the tank

[drowsy plaza]

What tank? Most tanks are balanced most players aren’t.

[raw geyser]

The tank

[mint pewter]

Pls nerf new Japans tanks its OP everywhere

[stuck acorn]

i think most japanese tanks are fine. Only T10 might be little bit unbalanced, but i haven't played it enough to be sure

[compact nymph]

What's so bad about being bottom tier? More HP to farm and more experience for shooting/killing higher-tier vehicles

[compact trout]

How do these mediums face the heavies when they’re always camping in spawn these days? 😂

[hidden fox]

I am happy with the new balance mech

[remote oriole]

You do not keep the damage from past months. The counter starts at zero

[full token]

How is the average calculated if past damage records aren’t available? does it just add damage from each battle to a total and then find an average

[nimble zodiac]

It probably uses a temporary variable to assign the last battle damage to, and adds to the total as you said, resetting the variable each game

Oop wrong chat 😬

[burnt venture]

I won't comment on anything other than the fact that the new Japanese heavy tanks are just bad design. Spam full gold to frontally pen, really stupid broken against lower tier tanks, and really weak against higher tier tanks. It's bad game design to the maximum.

Everything in these tanks is meant to be frustrating: you don't have pen on the guns, you get gold spammed, you are completely stupid good against lower tier tanks but feel completely useless against higher tier tanks. This is just bad for the game.

I can't wait until 9.1 when tier X completely gets changed, because WG has always changed the game for the better with their excellent balancing right? Right?

[stuck acorn]

well most of these tanks are stupid. T5 is actually fine, bascially castrated gargoyle with more HP, T6 is just as average as any other T6, T7 is 40TP/M7 yoh copypaste with more hull armor which is dumb. Why all low/mid tier vechicles need to be copypaste of each other? For me it seems like they want to castrate everything below T8 to the same point as they did with tiers 1-4, T8 is just Tiger 2 with apparently more armour and less pen because why not lol. T9 is M103 better at literally everything. Stupid hull armour, stupid turret armour (this one only when facing T8's lol) 340 pen gun (it was actually meant to have same gun as T10, but wargaming did oopsie, made T10 too good and nerfed pen on it during testing, but forgot to do it on T9. It results in T9 having more pen than T10 which is as stupid as this whole line).

And the crown jewel - T10 Type 71 which is basically by all means the thing they wanted to remove by nerfing E5 and IS-4. This is just outrageous. This thing is so stupid. When you face anything that has less than 320 of pen you can just yolo in and he won't be able to do anything. That's literally pre nerf E5 but better. Why even bother looking at E5 anymore. It was bad even without the type, but now it feels more like Type 68 XD. I would actually rather go play T9 Type 68 in a T10 game than E5. What's the point of it? If 9.1 update won't significantly buff it along with other tanks nerfed to obvlivion or powercrept through all these years we will sit in this dumb meta probably for at least 6 more months

[uneven narwhal]

JuSt uSe HeAt

[stuck acorn]

yEaH jUsT gO PlAy Ho Ri

[sweet sluice]

Okay and?

[deep temple]

Day 14 of asking for 30b Buff on gun handling or dpm

[royal lake]

Nice the ping problem got fixed

[upbeat sphinx]

Nerf kyros.
Nerf DPM, armour and mobility

[dark relic]

Mitsu 108 is the worst tank in t5. A real crap. How do you want to play this tank with such a low depression and a weak point as big as a house on the low front plate. We don't even know how to do a little hull down. And mobility worthy of a snail. Its gun has no effect : no pen. Even a matilda is a struggle to pen on its frontal armor. Even with gold ammo. It needs serious buff to be even a bit playable.

[stiff niche]

It's pretty easy for me to play it, I have a lot of fun with it

[nimble zodiac]

Either your tank isn’t upgraded or you’re bad at the game

Please tell me it’s the upgrade issue

[dark relic]

I like to play heavy like the kv1, the churchill, the t1, the m6, the brd, the arl or the Vk36. I've several masters with all these on several of my accounts. But this mitsu compared to these other heavy tanks, it's a disaster. To believe that WG has not tested it. I've it fully upgraded.The 105 mm gun has the same characteristics as the gargoyle but at least the gargoyle for an honorable shielding is definiteIy more mobile and effective. And even in sidescrap with a minimum angle as we do with the other heavys I mentioned, matilda shots manage to pass through the sides.. I've set back 75 mm as it has a few more pen and depression. But even like that it's a crap. The only fun you could have is top tier against t4. Against t5s and even worse against t6s it's worthless.

[twilit crystal]

the main issue with the mitsu rn is everyone is playing a mitsu. Once you start facing more medium tanks you can HE them for 400 damage

[dark relic]

I've just played a first battle with the t6 the ju su. No comparison with t5. I've made direct a classe 2 for my first battle with it. It gives me the feeling to be like a VK36.

[sudden smelt]

hi WG can you do somthing about is6?? this tank has no armor no dpm and no aim!! plz do sothing about this tank

[wicked quest]

How are you a veteran

[viscid blade]

because veteran takes skill

[dark relic]

i've made 50 battles with the t5 mitsu 108 to test it in all situations. There is nothing worthy with this tank. WG has not balanced it correctly. At least 2 parameters should be buffed : the gun depression to 8 and penetration of gold ammo in order to make it able to pen with average succes majority of t6. Armor is not to the level of what we expect from a heavy in t5 like KV1 or BRD. Low tier it's a nighmare. I suppose WG will buff it next update. They have not tested it seroiusly before launching it in games. For T6 to t8 i've tested it's another story : they are good tanks far more well balanced. I have the impression that they focused on the other tanks in the line but not on the t5 which is frankly sloppy.

[sour plinth]

Buff t57 heavy reverse speed
I kinda suffering with reverse speed

[winged barn]

Ikr, the gun needs a pen nerf and a dpm buff

[calm sinew]

Thats the worst idea ever. First of all, its a Premium Pass item... Second of all, nerfing it would make a lot of people mad, third of all, it is a collector tank, not a tech tree tank.

[hearty steeple]

All three of your points are the same. They aren't wrong. But they are the same. Anyways wg wouldn't nerf a tank people paid money for.

[prisma jetty]

1. It may be a premium pass item, but it is still a collector vehicle which can be nerfed.
2. People will be mad, but they payed money for a collectors tank which can be nerfed.
3. Collector tanks can be nerfed.

[hearty steeple]

They have revised their statement tho. It doesn't matter if the tank is premium or collector. They won't nerf it. Ribble said it around the time after anni was released.

The reason for not nerfing premiums? Customers will be mad that their purchases are worse. How does this change for collector tanks people paid money for as well.

[uneven narwhal]

They made collector tanks in an attempt to make then different from premiums in that aspect
Premiums will not be nerfed, collectors can be
However, since they ended up selling even the latter for money, they're no different from premiums when it comes to playerbase lashback

[waxen osprey]

vouch IS-8 is SUPER GOOD

[leaden flare]

We already have that 😂
2,3k or even more dpm is pretty good for a russian heavy

[winged barn]

Eggszacktly

[scarlet fjord]

what? the IS-6 already got an armor buff and its a great tank if u know how to play it ofc

[autumn zodiac]

Why does Lansen C just suffer? Compared to the two nearest vehicles in overall performance type it's just miserable and has no place

[dull ember]

conq needs armor

[empty nexus]

Lack of DPM perhaps.

[upbeat sphinx]

Compare it with svear.
It does not gain that much for an uptier

[upbeat sphinx]

Then I was thinking about a rework.
It should be an assault td rather than its tech tree counterpart.
So, it should receive a nerf to the dispersion and dispersion factory, then weight should be increased as it weight only 3 tons more than the Jagdpanzer IV but it has 30% more armour frontally. As a result the mobility should be worsen a bit.
In exchange maybe it can have something more on the gun. Maybe it could be swapped for the top 75mm of the Jagdpanzer IV, resulting in 100 more DPM but worse pen

[quick lichen]

@full token good suggestion👀

[full token]

No excuses for mm complaints in here now

[unique scaffold]

completely agree and i want to add something: the armor is trash, if you say that you already put this part in your feedback well you only said something about the lower plate

[dark relic]

another proof that the mitsu 108 is trash: the low score it makes in the end of battle results. We rarely have a mitsu that does more than 400 - 500 damage. And 1000 is almost never

[livid bane]

People play the tank incorrectly, it's possible to land 2k worth of damage on a good game and if you're carrying your team

[sudden smelt]

how many battle you play with is6 and how much is your wr ?

[iron lynx]

Mitsu is okay but my problem with it is that it's almost impossible to shoot someone in a facehug due to the height and nonexistent gun depression (105mm gun)

[elfin wing]

Most of the experienced players probably skipped that tank directly. Many has tons of free exp and research discounts so why bother with such a boring tank.

[full token]

The grind for the next line or tank has already begun. Or for some they don’t even need to grind more xp

[proper mango]

Do anyone think the Type 71 is not balanced?

[pallid nest]

Mitsu having no gun dep when pointing straight forward between the small turrets is pretty stupid. Obviously there is space for the gun to go down, seems devs just were lazy to implement more variety in gun dep depending on turret turn angles.
You have to turn your turret to the side and expose your weak side for easy pen if you want to be able to aim at weakspots...

Gun depression needs to be fixed.
Gun needs at least 5-10mm more base pen.
Armor needs to be increased all around. Even without goldammo enemies can pen you easily no matter how you angle

With the Gargoyle and M4-105 coming out Mitsu is just a joke...
I would play those 2 meds any day over Mitsu. Mobility already is better than armor when in skilled hands. If there is armor that everything else is traded off for, that armor needs to be functional.

[iron lynx]

maybe it's intended

[amber berry]

Y e s

[uneven narwhal]

It's broken

[raw geyser]

Lack of a “proper” lower plate, an upper plate that usually needs premium ammo to penetrate, has equipment to either give more gun depression or basically medium tank traverse speed. Oh and this, (trackwheel has a lot of 178 mm armor plates behind it, tricky to penetrate)

[uneven narwhal]

Very balanced

[quick lichen]

Love that for us

You think we haven’t asked before?

[drowsy plaza]

The tier 6-10 are simply a reward for anyone who played the Mitsubishi 108, which is inarguably the worst tank in the line. Plus given the fact that it is less mobile than a number of Tier 5 heavy tanks it can’t even front pen those with CS HEAT. So it just is doomed to die unless you are playing against 7 bots. It needs at least two more degrees of gun depression and better pen — the dispersion is also absolutely deplorable.

[umbral socket]

Who else agrees that the frontal armor of the Wz113 is way to weak?

[prisma jetty]

I think it’s only problem is that it turns like a boat

[vital basalt]

113 has speed instead of armor

[umbral socket]

Tiger 2 is a T8 and got more frontal Armor than the T10 Wz113
The Key for a nice Match playing the Wz113 is to Play it like a Medium instead of a Heavy, accept the Map allows you to side scraping, but its way to inmobile for to be played like a medium, infact, the wz121 is almost the same Tank but just its Medium version, so thats a huge problem by what i think, the Wz113 is sadly true, the nr. 1 baddest "Heavy"T10.
Only cause of the fact that its pan only has 125mm armor, i think something like 150 would be fair and more balanced, i mean Tiger 2 has 166 frontal armor

[prisma jetty]

Well done mate, you’ve managed to completely ignore the fact that angling exists to make armor more effective!

[raw geyser]

Btw not only that, show only the turret, “Tiger 2 has better armor than WZ 113”

Btw guys Tell him to use hulldown tactics and sidescraping (a bit) pls

[vital basalt]

121 is medium version of 113 true but still 113 has 640hp more, better accuracy on move and much better armor and you can't really say its the worst tier 10 heavy when there is cough 215b cough

[umbral socket]

And thats the big thing, u cant angle a tank in T10 if its got 125 frontal and besides, 125 side armor, even the first Tiger 2 canon can easily penetrate the frontal armor, even tho its angled 🤝🏻
If u angle enoug h to save youre front, the enemie, Can, Even with a T8! Tank, easily penetrate youre side armor.
The Wz113 is more like a very slow medium than a fast heavy, the most Maps arent allow you to hide the complete body so ur pretty done in the most Cases, Okay, Fv215b isnt every players favorite *cough, but still

[prisma jetty]

Completely ignoring that this is an autobounce angle (which means you’re going to bounce no matter what) the Tiger 2 is getting nowhere close to penetrating this, even with its top gun. This is also the weakest point on the side.

[fallow eagle]

113 has 3.4k dpm with equipment and provisions
It doesnt need any more armor buffs,it needs rebalancing like reducing the dpm to buff traverse but even if it remains the same,its fine
You need map knowledge of where your tank can properly hulldown and where your tank's dpm will be most effective
It requires some level of awareness of match,not any outright buffs to make it work

[quick lichen]

Straight line speed doesn’t make up for the poor upper plate or god awful traverse

I would gladly take 3k dpm with traverse

[umbral socket]

But i think we can all agree that the Canon is a beast with Dmg p minute, correct me if im wrong, but they got the same canon right? Wz113 and Wz121, only Wz121 reloads a bit faster.
The thing in Wot B is, that if ur mates not supporting you, ur done pretty fast, and u cant deal dmg if the enemies not driving to the right side, but ive never sad that the Canaon is weak, its more like the only good fact about the Wz113, and if it got more speed than armor, why is it titled as a Heavy? Instead to a Medium.
Im not talking about a frontal armor like The Maus or 60Tp, just like a 10 or 15 mm increase

[full token]

‘Heavy’ refers to the weight rather than its characteristics. Heavy tanks do get some general set of stats like better armor, bigger guns, worse mobility than mediums and lights, but there are exceptions and a lot of variation in the class still

[prisma jetty]

Like I said, the traverse is the only problem I have with the tank. There’s no reason for it to turn like a boat

[umbral socket]

Again, im not talking about to get this Beast Canon Tank a frontal armor of over 200, not even 170, that really would be unbalanced as hell, just a bit more than 125, like 140-150, and yeah the Traverse is terrible, that should be worked over as well

[lofty mist]

Even if they just buffed the turret traverse I would be fine with it tbh.

[vital basalt]

If it had better traverse, you wouldn't need more armor to begin with because it already has enough lol

[umbral socket]

Yeah, the Beast canon making the Tank way better than u would be thinking by just looking at the Armor and the Mobility stats.
What r u guys thinking about the Obj 252U?

[open frost]

Type 71 shouldve atleast weak side armor, its just too much

[umbral socket]

Ya, just realised that 2 matches before 😐

[unborn rampart]

Ah, yes, the "medium" fcm 50t with 55000kg and the "heavy" EMIL 1951 with 26000kg

[uneven narwhal]

It's not always perfect and will have exceptions
IIRC, FCM is a Heavy in WoT and was changed to a med in Blitz for reasons

Generally though, heavies are heavier than meds

[remote oriole]

I mean the Emil we have in the game is more wishful thinking than anything else

[neon zenith]

T28 prot. requires buff badly: top speed 28, armor buff: turret 203.2 / 127 / 101.6. Hull armor 203.2 / 50.8 / 50.8. Plus make it HD

[scarlet fjord]

2000 battles 58%
and those stats are from me being a noob i have 20k games and i used the IS-6 to grind all my tech trees since it was the only premium i had back then which i got for free
after the buff its a great tank
out in the open its 250 pretty much everywhere with a couple of very troll and smallish weakspots which if u wiggle become very difficult to pen most tanks just need gold to pen and hull down your armor is impressive although it does have a weakness on the turret cheeks which is there to balance it out ofc u cant have that nice armor on the hull and have an op turret u would have another Celestial

[full token]

Yes the exceptions

[vital basalt]

Fcm is a heavy in wot though, its wg who decided to make it medium in blitz

[scarlet fjord]

well FCM has nice armor thickness its just too flat so all that weight is for nothing
it was very fun to reverse sidescrape in it though i got a lot of bounces in pubs doing that

[prisma jetty]

What stat changes do you propose?

[nocturne mauve]

Ngl the Ju To has the worst gun I’ve ever used

[jade cargo]

TheOrsu#0001 was muted

[quick lichen]

“don’t cry little noob” proceeds to cry chefs kiss

[uneven narwhal]

Change the stats
Why do you think it's in testing

[neat crescent]

And that's why they say to "cry about it", holding it in ain't gonna do nothing

[unborn rampart]

True, i used to love using it. Maybe now again after the buff

[scarlet fjord]

might buy it back if its good

[vital basalt]

It now has same dpm as other 225 alpha meds at tier 8 with 5.5s reload, its basically cdc that trades mobility for armor, it seems good

[scarlet fjord]

Type 71's mobility equipment is too good needs nerf

[unborn rampart]

Yeah, i saw it in masses yesterday. And it definitely was more annoying to fight than usual

[remote oriole]

The Type 71 with the mobility equipment is a born medium killer… and it‘s already being abused in that role.

Really great job Wargaming. Your inability to balance is honestly just mind boggling at this point

[viscid blade]

boohoo med bully it's almost like prenerf e5 wasn't a thing
And ur a med u can easily reposition. 71 has poor dpm and weak armor against heavies and tds, that's what it trades to be good against meds

prenerf e5 was way scarier, it had better dpm and reactive so it could tank more

if u cant outposition a single tank ur doing it wrong

[real bison]

ah the classic "noob!!!111!!!! just reposition!111!1!!!!"

[remote oriole]

Pre-nerf E5 at least had a weak lower plate and weak sides

Do you even play mediums? You seem to have some funny ideas

[distant river]

Hp is also a big factor when comparing a heavium and meds, despite having 600 less dpm than an E50 it'll still survive longer in a continuous fight, despite that situation benefitting shorter reload time. The dpm disadvantage makes it worse at crossfires and flanking, but if you take it into a frontal fight against meds it'll perform well.

[wicked quest]

Prenerf E5 still suffered from sluggish mobility and slow turret traverse issues sure super boost solves it but it sacrifices a repair and med kit for it just track it and let it waste it and then track it again and circle

[viscid blade]

I comfortably 3k+ dmg most meds, so I kinda know what I'm doing
It's not hard to counter a 71, it just takes some semblance of teamwork, or u can just avoid it. 71 isn't op, it just requires more brain as a med because it's another threat to ur gameplay

@distant river that doesn't matter at all, if a med is fighting a heavy frontally then that med is just bad
The advantage of meds is to be able to outposition and get free shots, not to out dpm everything frontally

If ur getting perma tracked and circled in any heavy that's a skill issue not a tank issue
I used 215b a lot which has less survivability and I've never had an issue getting CoD by a med unless I made a mistake

A good e5 player is scarier because u can't pramo the turret cheeks and they can hide the lfp, and it had higher dpm

215b also usually runs 1 repair, that's why I made the comparison, in addition to having a terrible track wheel and side armor

[remote oriole]

If you comfortable average 3k+ I wonder why you believe that the E5 was worse. Outflanking and creating a crossfire works against literally any tank and the E5 was easier to engage frontally and at an angle (yet still frontally).

Your arguments don‘t convince me and I don‘t believe that you know what you are talking about, even if you play well

Also, why do you use the FV215b out of all heavies as an example of how easy it is to avoid a CoD? It‘s not exactly a slow turning tank

[wicked quest]

All tanks can be countered with teamwork lol why do people always use that as an argument type can counter med better than an is7 now and again with a “but it doesn’t happen to me” argument

[prisma jetty]

It's great to say the team work counters any tank, but that's then insinuating that you've managed to get the enemy into a 2v1 scenario. The game is a 7v7 scenario, meaning the enemy tank will have team mates as well, who can use team work to prevent you from flanking the Type 71.

[distant river]

As said, 215b has best in class hull turn speed and top third turret turn speed as well as a long hull to make it awkward to circle, so is a bad comparison. So is just calling things skill issues.

There are ways to counter every tank, some just take more thought than reasonable and so overperform. Saying a tank is balanced because there is a counter is not a valid point

[viscid blade]

71 trades a lot as a heavy in order to become a med killer
It has poor dpm, poor hull armor against heavies/tds, to gain the mobility to contest meds

The problem is meds can still outrun and outposition a 71, and losing a heavy to deal with meds makes ur heavy flank weaker. I'm not saying it's bad, it's still on the stronger side, but it's not op, and there are clear weaknesses it has to sacrifice in order to fill the med killer niche

I've played a decent amount of games in ratings where there's a lot of 71s, and I've never had much trouble dealing with them as meds. The 71 doesn't have med mobility and it definitely doesn't have the dpm to completely shut down meds

@remote oriole well let me rephrase, it's not a med killer it's a med bully
It can't kill meds on its own, it can only zone them out, therefore it's balanced. In fact I think 71 is a good thing for this game (besides the fact that the lfp is impenetrable w/o pramo, they should make it pennable with standard), because meds are strong in this game, and heavies are relatively weaker. A tank that is strong against meds and weak against heavies is a solid solution

[wicked quest]

Also wym the E5s weak spot is the roof and cheeks and hiding the LFP isn’t a hard thing to do in the E5

Poor hull armor? Thing can’t be penned by most of the T10 roster close up on standard still some struggle with gold and pushing meds back opens up more room Red will either lose two guns or now have to deal with thorns in their side

And what weakness? The dpm is average good luck tracking it they forgot to nerf the armor behind the drive wheel it has enough health as an E5 and a better frontal profile too

[remote oriole]

… Didn‘t this whole conversation start off because I said that it‘s a med killer?…

If you agree that it‘s a med killer, why do you start drama?

[prisma jetty]

Are you actually trying to say that meds are strong and heavies are weak compared to them? Have you seem comp at all since the heavy HP buff? Heavies are absolutely dominant in this game. The only reason you'd want to use anything else is for spotting.

[leaden flare]

in types current shape its a basically what e5 couldve been without the introduction of super trashables

if you want the med mobility in type you basically hurt your hulldown ability quite a bit
you have a fairly easily hitable cupola too and penning that with prammo isnt quite an issue but with ap youll have some occasinal troll bounces
types gun also feels fairly meh in terms of handling + the low dpm

the mobility is a bit better than the other heavyiums even tho it has more armor but it also has noticeably less dpm, gun handling and gun depression compared to them ( T95E6, chieftain tanks like that)

[scarlet fjord]

Lol you have no idea what the traverse buff does to the armor profile do you

[frail silo]

fcm is pretty bad

[daring tiger]

Atleast that thing is a sexy tank

[dense yoke]

Give us the ability to switch to old aiming system.

[nimble zodiac]

ARL has 200 standard, you must’ve missed the nerf

And KV-1S has 160 standard, missed that one too

On another note, you implied that you were going to give Ju-Nu’s premium pen, which is 195, vs ARL’s standard

You wrote 145 instead (fixed)

And in the end, Ju-Nu should absolutely not be as good as ARL, because ARL is overcooked

[proven drum]

still significantly better than the 145 of the ju-nu. and still have similar dpm and armour. True, but then why hasn't the arl been nerfed futher? the point still stands that the ju-nu feels like it should have the special equipment

[nimble zodiac]

They kinda don’t care about tier 6 balance, all they’re really doing for it is tweaking the tanks that a new BP’s gonna copy out

ARL remains OP, regardless, and I doubt they’re changing that

[proven drum]

yeah, it has been over tuned since i first played it 5 years ago

[stray pivot]

I want to suggest a maus buff, how do we buff it? Simple

Cheese camo
Advantage of cheese camo :
-it looks funny, therefore increase morale and you would play better
-it looks funny, therefore enemy will laugh and would lose focus
-it's cheesy

Disadvantage :
-how dare you even think cheese have disadvatange

[solid scaffold]

give 4202 heat + hesh gun back because why not 😎

[open frost]

Yeah... With the current meta in t10 it either needs turret armor buff or bring back heat to make it competitive as it used to be.
And the tracks is too fragile.... Idk if its just me being unlucky in the tank for over 500 matches but I can literally guess if I will get tracked.

[proper mango]

Yeah the turret on the FV4202 is kinda paper when a MT,LT,HT, and even TD's spotted that tank hull down it will get penetrated either way and yeah I hope the turret on that tank gets buffed cus a lot of users didn't even use that tank anymore

[full token]

Goes 60kph, accelerates quick, has hesh, good gun depression, very strong upper plate. It doesn’t need a strong turret on top of all that

[viscid blade]

4202 is a great tank but the niche it fills doesn't really fit in pubs

[solid scaffold]

i dont think it needs a good turret, the playstyle is really unique and i like it, but the current meta is hulldown which gonna require extreme aiming skill to hit small weak spots with standard rounds, looking forward to seeing some change to it in 9.1

[deep temple]

Day 15 of asking for 30b Buff on gun handling or dpm

[scarlet fjord]

looking forward to seeing massive changes to Foch 155 too

[solid scaffold]

7s intra clip is disastrous, front is good against standard but gold cut through easily, cupola was able to trick a lot of players but after they "fix" the highlight, it is literally a "hit me here senpai" sign, along with the weak side, horrible gun handling and lack of gun dep, definitely needs some massive changes

[unique scaffold]

Yes, buff gold pen of foch155

[real bison]

or how about just buff the stock gun

so there are 2 playstyles

[solid scaffold]

foch pen is pretty good tbh, plus very low reduction in alpha dmg, stock gun will need a lot of changes instead of alpha only, else i think an E3 can still do the job better

[deep temple]

Bro 407mm heat pen with calli doesn't need any buff what we need is better gun handling

[real bison]

^ give said gun handling to the stock gun and buff the alpha back to 640, buff the velocity too

[main tulip]

type 71 has worse turret traverse than even the current e5

[subtle mica]

Vindicator UM worst tank in the game

[nimble zodiac]

Yeahno, also hi from a few hours ago in the glitching room

[vital basalt]

Uhmm this is balance discussion channel, not uprising results :/
#uprising

[next quail]

The tank is broken just stay hulldown and do sidescrape, its a better arl in my oppinion

[proven drum]

only against lower tier, tier 7 tanks can pen it anywhere and it cant fight back. its good against tier 5-6 yes.

[next quail]

Show your turret only and shoot then move it so the armor becomes troll

[scarlet fjord]

Welp Chi se is broken 💀

[stark juniper]

all the japaneese heavys are broken

[unique scaffold]

let's not give the 50b a 4th shell please
Literally don't touch it it's fine

[uneven narwhal]

Same with the 4005 ☝️
Sacrificing gun handling and having to expose for longer in exchange for damage is a horrible trade off, irrespective of whether the entire meta is being changed or not

[vital basalt]

Its not getting gun handling nerf though 👀

[scarlet fjord]

not all just Chi se
and maybe type 71

[uneven narwhal]

Exposure's getting increased, unless they drastically reduce Intraclip, down to 2s

[wicked quest]

The clip consumable exists my guy and now actually has a use

[stuck acorn]

we can easly assume that they will probably reduce the intraclip to 2.5s. Reducing it more would be OP and reducing it less would be pointless. And if you add clip consumable to it exposure time won't be much bigger. You will just have less time for aiming which willl make your shots way less accurate.

[uneven narwhal]

It has a use now as well, 6s to 4,2 is a major change
However, it's not always going to be the case, consumables have cooldown (72s with CD reduction equipment)
You also shouldn't be forced to use the Intraclip consumable just because the soft stats demand it to
What about people that used a RC/SB combo

4005 was one of the few tanks that was balanced and fun to play, even with the Super Consumables

[wicked quest]

Allows another PlayStyle I run SB and RC but often found RC wasn’t as situational often and wanted to use the clip consumable more but never really wanted to sacrifice a kit for it

[scarlet fjord]

to me the clip consumable is possibly the most ridiculous thing on that tank
i use it in conjunction with speed booster it can be such a power house with that fire power

[rain shuttle]

Is RU-251 worth it.

[umbral socket]

Depends on ur playstyle, im honestly horrible with lights, im better with Heavy and Mediums, but its still a pretty good Tank

[viscid blade]

ru is a pretty good tank by itself, Leo 1 is amazing tho

[nimble zodiac]

RU is def not a good tank, it’s average at best 💀

[tame stone]

E6 deserves nothing but a buff. theres no reason to nerf a tank that's already not that good in its place. Keep the turret armor the way it is. its already not very good with that boob on the top...

[winged barn]

Top speed and dpm getting buffed on it

That's massive

The turret is unreliable either way, so an armor nerf to it should not effect it in the slightest.

[tame stone]

Oh please wg the top speed is fine where its at. it Needs a more accuracy gun if anything. The accuracy is worse than an E5

[vital basalt]

By ~4% yes

[dense yoke]

Nah, Ru251 is def good tank

[scenic apex]

How could you say that 💀
It’s awesome you can run around with good speed and constantly slap nearly every tank with HE

[winged barn]

As a t49 enjoyer, yes, the ru251 is completely broken and everyone should spam it.

[scarlet fjord]

not needing skill is an advantage? 💀

[lone sandal]

easier to play is an advantage

[scarlet fjord]

u cant give german heavies that much DPM
makes no sense and E100 already has 2650 DPM with rammer
sacrificing the alpha means more expose time for a not so impressive armor profile
nowadays WG has tanks with greater armor and heavium mobility
Maus might be good for the average player in pubs but its starting to lag
the type 71 60tp the yoh and now the IS-7 are exemplary tanks of this

[upbeat sphinx]

Hmm I am curious if they buff the 128mm on the e100 to match the DPM of the 152mm. They did something like that on wot pc so why don't they do here?

[scarlet fjord]

because the E100 is perfectly fine with the 152 its just WG's balance team is drinking a lot lately and the new tanks they release are beyond cracked

[viscid blade]

because the 128mm is supposed to be the stock gun not an alternative
it's just a way for them to squeeze 60k more xp from u

[twin egret]

Both guns should be competitive in my opinion, except the bat-chat's stock gun, since it actually has a stock gun.

[winged barn]

Weegee doesn't care about any stock guns.

The stock centurion 1 makes a solid tier 6 tank.

[viscid blade]

if u want to play 128mm e100 go play maus instead

[real oasis]

e100 should feels like playing e100 the turret should be buffed 250 mm angeled feels like nothing , compare it to most medium tanks turrets you find them strong wich is legit that makes e100 doesnt sound like super heavy i wish one thing is e100 turret would be buffed with 40mm more armor

[compact nymph]

Oh yeah let's give it 340mm of effective turret armor when unangled💀 another exciting hulldown heavy.
Tried angling the turret to have some degree of protection against premium ammo?

[real oasis]

thats what it should feels like a SUPER heavy tank and i angeling the tank rewarding but also tanks right now know how to shoot and deal even with that, lets compare the E100 with 60TP and i think you forgot about most of heavy tanks i think👀

[distant river]

E100 has a better gun, better hp and better hull when angled. It's not meant to be invincible, so don't use it as if it is. You are also comparing a tank made to take the focus to one of the most meta hulldown heavies there is, which isn't a smart idea.

If you want an impenetrable tank where you can sit in the open not thinking and be fine, you aren't playing the right game

[real oasis]

wow nice joke mate 😉

[silk hamlet]

just get a 60tp if you want a braindead hulldown heavy with high alpha, problem solved

[compact nymph]

No, no. He's got a point. Read it again and think about it for a couple seconds. Turret armor is not the sole balancing factor of a tank.

[pseudo bobcat]

Umm..No? I mean both 60tp and E100 have pros and cons and I'll admit that 60tp is way easier and more noob friendly to play than E100 but you're saying it as if the E100 is the worst tier X of all which is false and I rather have the more reliable gun on the E100 than the 60tp gun but you really can't argue in the armor department since 60tp have 7 gun dep with lower profile and impenetrable turret from the front.

E100 to me seems like a tank for ppl that actually want to have fun and have some braincells while 60tp is the tank you choose when u don't want to think too much and just go hulldown and click left mouse button to win

[outer ibex]

buff foch 155 dispersion pls, or some sort of gun handling buff.

[umbral socket]

How can i Report a player?

[compact nymph]

Submit a ticket ig but I don't see how that is relevant to tank balance

[bitter steppe]

They want to balance the tank by banning the dude driving it. Less of that tank on the battlefield lmao

[unique scaffold]

@clever maple i bought 121b. only 1 game. my 121b ammoracked. 😢 500 damage was my statsheet. buff 121b. ammorack scares me😢

[compact nymph]

Although Soviet/Chinese mediums have somewhat fragile ammo racks, try not to peek in front of big guns. Especially sideways. The 121B is not as unique and probably not as fun as its tech tree cousin but I'd say it is a fine tank.

[unique scaffold]

Who’d want to play the maus 💀

[compact nymph]

From my experience today, people who insist on flanking around the whole map💀

[scarlet fjord]

You are comparing a competitive tank to a overcooked one ask for nerfs on 60tp not overcooking a fine tank
Not to mention its a heavy in a heavy class meta so it automatically is superior to most vehicles

[stoic wadi]

Kinda wish they nerf the Type 71 lower plate's armor. Ive never seen a new tech tree tank so cracked, because the Type 71 forces you to use calibrated shells just for it, when tanks before like the Yoh and 60tp pose a challenge but arent literally cracked. (Also weaken Type 71 side armor, its literally better than the 60tp or the Yoh, while the tank's more mobile)

[scarlet fjord]

The problem is its already impressive armor is buffed even more with the mobility module makes its traverse broken which allows it to wiggle hard and becomes insanely hard to pen

[neat crescent]

Oh yes pressing the 2 key is definitely the biggest struggle i have to do these days , so hard my muscles have become more bulky 💪

[nimble zodiac]

You guys realize that AP and APCR are auto-ricocheting the lower plate when it's angled, right?

[elfin wing]

"when it is angled", right. Do you realize we can drive these tanks in this game, right? Yeah, they can move.

Armor is good (but not really especially with that new auto aim) but the gun is not that impressive. It cannot face hug as well. While asking for a armor nerf please consider its weak sides as well. They are there for a reason.

[scarlet fjord]

You need gold just to pen him frontally and there's still a significant chance of bouncing 6 of ur team mates if you are a player with good aim u can see literal proof of this by watching any decent YouTuber reviewing the tank or even better live streams
While it can pen everything almost wirh AP only good luck nice argument

[neat crescent]

What a great time to use this video

Edit:Also just gonna mention, replying with videos or feedback of someone's else perspective on it rather than your own in the battlefield makes you look like a very lazy person if I'm honest, the kind that doesn't actually double confirm an outsider opinion with their own, perspective is a funny thing and just like how many YouTubers have called it out as op there's also many who've disregarded it as weak, useless, the ultimate heavium, etc, u get the idea

[scarlet fjord]

I said it was proof I didn't specify how I confirmed it i said u can confirm this easily with that outcome and if they can achieve it so can you
ur not giving valid arguments ur just taking this out of ur a$$

[viscid blade]

if ur not a med/light, press 2 key for ez pen
if u r a med/light, ur doing it wrong

[neat crescent]

Now this guy gets it, it's not that hard but players always want to buff/nerf the tank.

But never try to do anything about their skills 🗿 release 268/4 vs now situation, it seems people still aren't accustomed to the trial time tanks get after release where people find it hard to deal with new things, then a month later they all suddenly forget it was supposedly broken 😄

[prisma jetty]

If you aren’t a med/light, press 2 key and reduce your dpm.
If you are a med/light, have fun fighting the most mobile heavy in tier 10 lol

[scarlet fjord]

u misunderstand
6 of your team mates cant do what u can do the tank is broken to them if u have 3k WN8 and say "skill issue" to tanks that are cancer to the average joe ur shallow mindedness is beyond imagination
"skill issue" tell that to half of the blitz populus

@prisma jettythey are literally talking out of their a$$es
a tank shouldn't be unpennable frontally with standard ammo with that kind of insane traverse and mobility
people like fatness and droodles believe its cracked
i personally agree with them because that kind of armor and insane traverse is an excellent combo against the average joe specially if they're using mobile cuz they cant aim to save their life heck they even still shoot AP at your completely red tank
its not about balancing a tank around the people who can deal with it every 3k WN8 player can deal with every tank because every tank has weaknesses you can exploit again ur not giving a valid argument pressing 2 and penning works against literally every tank in the game out in the open at least the problem is that u need AP for the rest of the tanks not gold
meaning it needs AP for you and you need gold

[raw geyser]

I can’t say much if the tank is OP or not, but damn, good luck destroying its frontal trackwheel and damaging it

Imo they should just nerf its sides to 60-70 mm @nimble zodiac, and rear to that same amount

[viscid blade]

if u don't have 3k wn8 then u have skill issue, therefore u don't have as much game knowledge as better players, so u shouldn't make judgements based on ur limited experience. If every tank was balanced around 40%ers all meds/lights would be broken

[nimble zodiac]

With enhanced armor, the lower plate can only block AP shells with 246mm of pen or lower without relying on auto-ricochet
278mm against APCR

Saying it's impenetrable by standard shells frontally is stretching it

Don't nerf the armor, remove the stupid equipment and rebalance on base stats

[prisma jetty]

The big problem is the suspension equipment. Giving a heavy that level of mobility is absolutely ridiculous.

[scarlet fjord]

the problem is the equipment
the mobility it gets is too good for that armor thats the problem
its that traverse people just cant pen it cuz they get confused and panic and cant penetrate this i am strictly talking about pubs here

@viscid blade you are basically telling the majority of the players to get better because lets say Smasher is something you can counter
yes you can counter Type 71 i can counter type 71 you can as well lets just say that there are ways to counter it but if it verses 6 of my team mates they cant pen it and it tears apart my team that isn't balanced
if u removed the cracked equipment on mobility and left it as is so u can choose between gun depression or something else it would be fine for me

[neat crescent]

Well sheesh, if you need 3k wn8 to shoot tracks, circle tanks or press 2 to load gold then i guess the other 6 players on every team must be brain dead, circling tanks and pressing 2 to load gold, 2 things which are literally taught in the tutorial, shooting tracks well i guess the average Joe doesn't know that but hey some of em do it instinctually.

@raw geyser the track is easy to break, the hard part is penning from the front at an angle which, usually is the goal of track shots but not necessary if you're in a mobile tank, which is aiming for a tanks side or back 🤔.

-The tank has a relatively slow turret turn rate, the front plate just like 113 needs gold to be penned, i guess ur right with the AP part since the lower plate is very angled but hey the DPM isn't crazy, the top speed is limited at 40 so it doesn't go past other heavies which top at 45-50 but maintain 32-45 kmh speed, and honestly if you're in a med trying to deal with a heavium all by yourself that's a big mistake since heavies have been dominating the game for a while now, it's a team game and 71 isn't invincible, it's being used by "3k wn8" people and average Joe's, and both of them share their own losses and wins, it's a hard tank to deal with but as time passes like usual people will learn, adapt and grow people DONT stay on one spot and rot, C1B was in a similar spot yet now humiliated and unseen in battles, mostly because everyone now knows AP is no good for that things turret and spam HE or miraculously hit the hatch with the new auto aim, etc etc, no tank in this game has been perfect or blatantly op(in high tiers) for longer than a month or two, just wait and see how the average Joe's adapt.

Ofc i can't say the same for event only players though since they play random battles so rarely they prob don't even read numerical stats
🗿

[scarlet fjord]

the tank has 2 repair kits and can out traverse a leopard 1's circling
what will you circle?
he can just join his meds and demolish your med flank if ur meds retreat ur heavies are flanked and killed if they dont they die
if it keeps its frontal plate at you directly you are dead
and dont give me the "use team work' argument because this is a 7v7 the type 71 has "teamwork" too even though to the average player that is an abstract concept
and since it has 2500-ish hit points yeah its definitely balanced absolutely for the average joe i dont see any problems here
we'll see in a few months WG always wait quite a bit before changing the stats of a new tank unless its seriously bad which is almost never the case so its safe to say the tank is staying as is for a while
unless 9.1 changes it because they plan to rework everything who knows
ample opportunity for me to spam it in pubs though 💀

[neat crescent]

Well, good luck spamming it, do hope you don't get used to bouncing forever, eventually people will learn to press 2 against it too or whatever tricks or weak spots they come up with, heck they might start a track spam with this one or auto aim at the hatch with the current aiming system, we'll see, as for me a, 2.1k wn8 player and not 8k, i will just play like usual

Forgot to add: i will keep the same opinion about it regardless, though I AM very interested to see how this tank will fit in the 9.1 update, perhaps the 268/4 and type 71 are just examples of the kind of roles all other tanks will be adapted into in the future?
If that's the case then i can only wait for obj 263 to become a second 268/4 lol

[viscid blade]

honestly the 71 spam is great, it's a heavy u can reliably pen and it has poor dpm so less dmg taken overall

[twin egret]

It's a medium tank destroyer

[tawdry agate]

Where would you put suggestions for new mods or upgrades etc. Shells : or Upgrade feature on a special. mode to get Upgraded Shells like a "Dirty Nuke" after the team wins 2 in a row and the highest points in the group tank gets the. nuke and the other team gets a nuclear warning on their UI. Just a thought.

[distant river]

if u don't have 3k wn8 then u have skill issue

This has got to be the worst possible take I've heard for a long time, it's not constructive, useful or adding anything of any value...

[wicked quest]

Didn’t he have an even worse take the other day on the Type 71 as well

[viscid blade]

well that was partially a joke, but I still retain my opinion that if ur not at least high unicum ur opinions shouldn't be taken as seriously because u lack the necessary game knowledge and experience

[winged barn]

Heavies have less influence over a battle than meds was the wack take this morning

[lone sandal]

well tbf if ur med side collapses it's usually an immediate loss

[hearty steeple]

Yes. Med side. Where most of your team generally goes(or should go) including heavies. Definitely a counterpoint.

[uneven narwhal]

Same can be said for the heavies

[lone sandal]

yeah ur med side is also dictated by heavies going med side so yeah heavies have more influence

[twin egret]

I'm sure with the new update, it's easier to aim at weakspots. So far I've had an easier time shooting the rectangle thing on top of the E 100's turret with AP with fairly accurate tanks

[neat crescent]

In mobile the auto aim became a super Auto Aim lol aims for weak spots automatically, there was a vid of it jumping between grey spots on a fv4202 turret since it's so oddly shaped 🤷‍♂️

[twin egret]

On PC it made snapshots easier to follow, i didn't say anything about rng btw I just aaid it made it easier to aim at weakspots

[scarlet fjord]

yes if you arent at least unicum your opinion shouldn't be taken into account i agree with you
but that doesn't mean you balance a tank around a 3k WN8 player because most of the playerbase is out of the equation you are gonna make your tank too strong because what a 3k WN8 player can deal with and what the average joe can is like night and day

the new aiming system does help a lot when it comes to not fluffing a shell like before this is kind of an indirect nerf to heavies but also to meds and tanks like 62a in particular
62a's armor is much stronger than it actually is because you need to aim HEAT on its cheeks
that tank practically aims it for u with that gun handling artificially increased its turret armor by being able to snapshot faster than you

[snow hound]

i think the t100 might needs a nerf, ahhh i see

[simple glacier]

see: #coming-soon

[loud radish]

noooo my t100......
The balance of E50 m is very weird, why Wargaming ? E50M is not a OBJ140. That's not the same gameplay.

[scarlet fjord]

they overdid it when buffing the DPM on these tanks they are practically russian med DPM
Leopard 1 as well they are too close in DPM

[stoic wadi]

The issue with the E50M TBH is its overall design. The lower plate's too big, and the tank is too tall, so its 8 degrees of gun dep doesn't really do much to protect its lower plate. The flat turret face is vulnerable to premium ammo. Lowering the tank by even just 0.2 m would greatly help with some of its issues without resorting to more DPM buffs.
(TBF its a fictional variant of the E50 anyway)

[nocturne mauve]

Well honestly it doesn’t make any impact on the map anyway, heavy meta ftw

[rigid oyster]

Can we all agree that the hull down heavy meta is boring and every update make the med and lights players in a harder playstyle

[nocturne mauve]

Everyone agrees with it, honestly this game just degraded since the heavy HP buff. Most matches are decided by who has more heavies and if those heavies are in the upper tier, there’s just too much time wasted in trying to counter heavies and it just gets boring because no one wants to play each match for 5m+ at a time

[pseudo bobcat]

I love the "just press 2 to win against 71" argument or the "shoot front tracks lol".. you do realize if you're playing something like a T-62A and firing HEAT with CS you'll get 2.8k dpm and 71 with rammer gets 2.6k (2.4 with CS) and that's not a lot of disparity given the 71 superior armor and best in class traverse for HT right? also good luck shooting the front tracks of 71 since it has 178mm raw armor behind the front wheel (not counting the spaced)

[nocturne mauve]

Your first mistake was bringing a T-62A to the engagement, your T-62A will get absolutely stomped by any heavy at that tier and you can’t do anything about it

[pseudo bobcat]

Ah yea u r8, my bad. I should've played a Type 71 or T100LT to fight it.. I clearly stood no chance playing normal mediums like T62A.. Even though I can easily win against other conventional heavy like IS-7, E100, or 60Tp.. cuz I can just shoot their front track and even if they repaired, their traverse is still too slow to catch me flanking them..

[dapper osprey]

just run cali on meds lol you only need like 315 heat to pen the upper plate

[nocturne mauve]

I mean isn’t it just heavies in general, they receive special treatments such as unnecessary HP buffs, super consumables and provisions just to make them easier to play for lower skilled players. You ever see a heavy just absolutely roll forward not caring about how many hits he receives because he’s got way too much HP and can take all of that abuse anyway? For me that’s every match

[scarlet fjord]

its that traverse when i wiggle even the tier 9 and tier 8 they just cant pen the traverse is too broken the tier 10 is just even more insane to everything i face they need to nerf that equipment

[pseudo bobcat]

well if they didn't mess around with buffing all HT in the game then we don't need 3K DPM on almost all mediums but since WG are more interested in making better and better heavy tanks and making random unnecessary consumables or equipment for tanks that nobody asks for well what can we do really.. Blitz meta are starting to shift into PC where all you do is fire premium, they make tanks with less and less weak points so they're almost impossible to pen with normal ammo and then when you load HEAT? all of them becomes paper. And people likes to call skill issue towards people that can't press 2 while they themselves didn't think about adding weakpoints to tanks so people can actually try to.. you know? one of the core mechanics of the game?

Psst Spoiler: "Aiming"

[uneven narwhal]

They honestly need to remove the equipment
I honestly do not know why Wargaming is so insistent on adding in new special stuff when they are clearly incapable of balancing tanks properly that have it
I agree it makes lines more appealing after they've been released and I would not have a problem if they actually put effort into balancing instead of throwing darts at a board

[scarlet fjord]

the japanese line is one of the most fun lines I've ever played in the game
but the type 68 makes the IS-8 look like crap
and the IS-8 is one of my favorite tanks in the game
Type 71 is just i have no words to express that thing WG want us to get in line and grind their new tanks so when we calm down they can nerf it or in 9.1 they might use the chance as an excuse to "rework/nerf" it who knows

[nocturne mauve]

lol as if they will do anything to it, they 100% want to keep its equipment so it makes it more interesting so people will buy free XP which makes money for them

Or to rephrase as someone doesn’t have basic reading comprehension, people will buy gold and convert into free xp which makes money for them

[neat crescent]

If you think people buy free EXP with money there's something very wrong with your line of thought 🗿. One of the dumbest arguments on why they make op tanks I've seen today

P2w players are already rich in the game when it comes to resources and saving up free exp or discount certs is certainly not that hard, last time i saw someone buying gold to convert it into FXP was back in 2017 posted in the screenshots section asking for help, the same applies within a good amount of the f2p players who save up gold for premiums or whatever new lines that come.in case their FXP is not enough

The argument of "oh yeah new tech trees that come up every so many months giving enough time to save FXP for them somehow magically makes people buy gold to get FXP" doesn't work on me

[nocturne mauve]

I see what you mean, and where do they get their free xp certificates from? Oh yeah crates so WG still benefit from profit

[neat crescent]

You literally get free exp certificates from events too, and discount certs from the free battle pass, what are you even trying to argue??, When it comes to resources this game is as generous as it gets currently you can get to a tier X tank within a week or 2 playing often and a month being lax, years ago that would've taken months if not a year as a f2p from my own experience.

So once again i ask you, what are you even trying to argue with the whole FXP ordeal? The average Joe gets a T10 within 500 or 300 battles, I've seen those accounts often and no way did they ever think "oh yeah lemme buy gold for FXP hehehe".

[full token]

There’s 3-4 months usually between new lines. Enough to grind the free xp for a new line, and you get research discount certificates from the battlepass in that time

[nocturne mauve]

You think everyone is economically efficient in this game? Ofc not people will 100% still convert gold to free xp, maybe it’s not as much as it was years ago but yeah it’s still money ain’t it

[neat crescent]

You're still ignoring the fact that those who are already stable in terms of resources are usually the ones paying for stuff in the game and won't be needing to, while those who aren't usually find themselves being "f2p" and more than anything use the gold from events or watching ads

[scarlet fjord]

no point in arguing about buying free XP
u can literally buy 5x xp certificates 10 of them actually and some gold or whatever for less than a $ and use that in conjunction with a gamemode like uprising or boss mode (that has a system with lives) so u can farm as much damage and XP per game as possible you get like 30k XP per game you can get a plethora of tier 10's in a thousand battles
like right now u can buy for like 0.8$ or something like this 10 certs and u can do this for around 10 times meaning its absolutely cracked

[uneven narwhal]

Legit just did this lol, 10 x5 certs, purple XP booster, Uprising
Went from Tier 6 to 8 in 15 matches

[pseudo bobcat]

same man, I instantly went from JuTo to Type 68

[charred heron]

If you are going to scam people, try harder

[jade cargo]

JVN xTryhardi#6127 was banned

[silver urchin]

You make the heavy tanks accuracy higher to avoid players from camping?

[stray pivot]

That didn't stop KV-2 players

[olive trail]

Hi WG could you nerf Japanese Heavies, cause there have Armor, Dispersion, Aim time, Gun elevation and depression very OP and imbalance.

[olive trail]

Just increase dispersion, armor of Heavies Tank make sure player can't camp and snip from far distance, make sure their must close range combat.

[prisma jetty]

Just make Shells gain pen over distance so that heavies armor becomes worse the further away they are

[olive trail]

Did you mean significantly reduce armor penetration and damage of heavy tanks when fired from long range?

[prisma jetty]

Nah, just give shells increased penetration over distance instead of decreased penetration

[full token]

That affects more than just heavies

[raw geyser]

Good gimmick for another russian premium heavy 💀

Very very crappy pen at short range, but the the farther the range, the more penetration it gets

It gets Ho-Ri pen at 500 meters

[hearty steeple]

Because we want to encourage red line sniping

[deep temple]

I'm back again so

Day 16 of asking for 30b Buff on gun handling or dpm

[twilit ermine]

To hell with this game, honestly what the hell were they thinking when they gave the mitsu those stats? Are the devs slow? I’ve been stuck with this tank for more than 30 battles and I’ve been losing almost every single battle because not only does this tank not have any gun depression, but it’s aim circle was made to shoot at whales and not miss 100% of the time, yet it would still miss. It also doesn’t help that it has such a long reload for a shot that would most likely miss even if you were shooting from point blank. To add on to the dumpster fire of a tank it is, it’s slower than a t95 so by the time I even get into position, everyone else is half alive or dead. It’s such a terrible tank that it can only compete with tier 4 tanks because tier 5 tanks just completely outclass it💀

[real bison]

if you’re so mad, why not free exp past it?

[unique scaffold]

i free exped to japanese tier 10 heavy. tank is balanced. good job!😀

[waxen osprey]

Bro the mitsu is legitimately so fun, just play it peek a boom, bait some shots and deal large amounts of damage. I used to legit hate it a lot, but after switching up my playstyle to be more passive, cautious and using peekaboom i can do rlly well in it

• Its not slower than a t95, it goes usually about 30km/h
• It has insane alpha for its tier
• Its reload isn't half bad for a 108, in fact the DPM is great
• While the armor isn't that good, its good enough to bounce some stuff
• Its dispersion while a bit bad its still a 108, u can't expect a pin point accurate gun
• Its gun depression is bad true, just bring it to a more town environment and it will perform perfect
  overall this tank is quite fun and balanced, you just need to adjust ur playstyle

[still jackal]

I played through it with the stock gun, if you don't like how derpy the big gun is, it is an option I feel

[heavy summit]

tier 6 and 7 is gonna die when caliban comes

[nocturne mauve]

Tier 7 has already died from the huge buffs to tier 8s, tell me what you’re supposed to do with 175mm of pen nowadays when literally every single tier 8 heavy has had an armour buff

[nimble zodiac]

Funny thing is, in Blitz it’s a 105mm

[upbeat sphinx]

Think that tier 6 meds have 160mm pen at best
So 175 is workable

[nocturne mauve]

Nah it’s barely useable, especially after the fact they buffed nearly every single tier 8 in armour

[lone sandal]

idk about you but

doesnt reducing weakspots from the e50m sound broken?

[teal palm]

The e50m is already pretty annoying to face most of the time so making it smaller sounds like trying to use wood to put out a fire

[scarlet fjord]

Buy 10 5x certificates plus some gold for like 0.8$ u will jump like 2 tiers

[sleek grove]

no need to spend money when u stack a lot of free exp

[noble latch]

M6A2E1 exp 🥺, @silver urchin the kran rotation 😭

[silver urchin]

Enhanced armor could add spaced armor for some tanks like Panzer IV and Conqueror and maybe some heavies could receive better turret rotation instead camo equipment:b

[wicked quest]

Panzer 4s already have spaced armor S conq exists so it would be very weird for the conq to randomly get it when it doesn’t have any Atleast on the turret

[silver urchin]

Fun fact: On the others version conqueror have a turret with spaced armor plus pz.4 dont have the side spaced armor on hull what is also bad because all other version of the tank have a spaced armor XD

[pseudo bobcat]

yea, playing tier 6-7 is somehow more stressful for me than playing 8+ and I don't necessarily know why..

[scarlet fjord]

The players are much worse

[nocturne mauve]

It’s not even because of that, it’s because tier 7s don’t even have a chance to fight off tier 8s, I know that they are not supposed to but they should at least be able to do some damage back. For example what is a T23E3 gonna do to any tier 8 when all of them received numerous armour buffs, and at least an IS-5 can pen an E75 or most tier 9s. The gap between tier 7 and 8 is just too much honestly

[woven holly]

Flank, flank, and flank again. Like the T23E3, most tier 7 mediums don't have the best pen on their standard rounds, but many of them do have way better dpm than most tier 8 heavies. The IS-5 for example has 2,000 dpm, while the T23E3 has about 2,700. So continually try to position where you can use that massive dpm against the sides or rears of tanks, and you can really tear tanks up.

[nocturne mauve]

I mean even that has struggles penning the sides of the tank, and don’t only restrict it to the T23E3 I should’ve clarified further. Most tanks in tier 7 have this struggle

[distant river]

Fun fact: despite the large dpm advantage the hp advantage is almost large enough for the T23E3 to lose a straight open fight to an IS5. On average it'll survive with 50hp left, but that's well within damage rng. That's assuming all shots pen etc etc, but it still shows how you don't actually hurt reds that much even when you are getting all your shots in on the reload

[woven holly]

Check out Armor Inspector or Blitzhangar.com (Blitzhangar doesn't work on mobile devices) for 3-D maps of tanks' armor profiles. Memorizing where several tier 8 tanks have tricky armor spots (like the sides of the IS-5 above the tracks) really helped me learn where to shoot when I'm using tier 7's without strong penetration ability. Two of my all time favorite tanks are the KV-13 (151mm of pen with 2,400 dpm) and the Y5 ELC (145mm of pen with 2,700 dpm). I am able to perform well in both of those tanks in this current, strong-heavy meta (57.96% wins in KV-13 across 683 battles, and 70% wins in Y5 ELC across 96 battles). It took me a while (several hundred games for sure) to develop comfortability with that flanking play style I mentioned earlier. It will get easier, guys! Once you practice that flanking play style, all of tier 7 will start to feel easier!

[nocturne mauve]

You’re assuming that the enemy does not know how to counter a flank, 9 times out of 10 they’ll either not care because they have too much HP or they turn around and you have no chance of penning them whatsoever

[scarlet fjord]

I actually always believed tier 7s are incredibly strong and too close to tier 8 lol
Problem is there are situations like
T 34-1 that thing is practically a tier 8
Heck u can bring t44 down to tier 7 and replace it with that thing right now
And also tanks that feel like tier 6 but most of tier 7s are crazy strong
Just don't compare it to something like a celestial cuz I consistently bounce tier 9s with that completely broken armor in conjunction with 20 reverse

[woven holly]

One of the keys to setting up a good flank is attacking tanks that are already engaged in a fight in which they can't turn around to face you without getting shot by your allies. Either they'll continue looking at your team mates and your dpm can farm away their hp, or they can turn around to look at you, and by then you'll have already pulled back into cover and your team mates will now be shooting them in the rear. Effective flanking is a lot about creating cross-fires--making your opponents take damage from either one direction or the other because they can't point their armor and their guns in two directions at once. This form of flanking is extremely hard to counter for the reds.

[nocturne mauve]

And yet again you’re assuming that there are no enemies who are expecting my flank and that everyone is focused towards one side

[woven holly]

Much of tier 7 is really good, it just has incredibly different strong suites than tier 8. If you play according to those strong suits, as you say, tier 7's can start to feel very competitive and strong.

[frail silo]

only a handful of tier 7's are strong which are the overbuffed ones
the ones left behind with no buffs are practically nothing

[scarlet fjord]

would have to disagree partially

[upbeat sphinx]

T 34 1 is the only exception
It has the same prem pen as tier 8 100mm

[twilit ermine]

Even on flat ground, one little bump and all of a sudden you’re aiming at the sky. What’s the point of having high alpha with a long reload if you can’t even aim at what you’re tryna shoot?🤷🏽‍♂️

[nova geode]

buff and nerfs that I think should be made:
🇺🇸
T110E4: turret armor buff better reverse speed
T110E3: leave as is
T110E5: better power to weight turret traverse and dpm but take away super speed boost and reactive armor
M-VI-Yoh: double shot 2 sec inter-clip triple shot 14 sec reload
T57 Heavy: worse turret armor forth shell 20 sec clip reload
M48 Patton: buff turret cheeks
Sheridan: standard pen buff 245mm power to weight buff

🇷🇺
Obj 268: buff frontal armor
Obj 263: leave the same
IS-7: nerf top speed to 45 buff premium pen to 310mm
IS-4: buff turret traverse buff HP
Obj 140: buff turret armor buff premium pen 300mm
T-62A: leave the same
T-100 LT: buff soft terrain crossing capacity nerf armor
That’s all for today will get the rest tomorrow if I remember 😐

[full token]

Why would you undo the is4 nerf

[nova geode]

Not to much but the turret needs a buff on the traverse and It does need more HP cause it is supposed to be a super heavy

[umbral void]

Gib leopard 1 some HESH with 127mm pen hehe. If wee gee wants to stick with the "Historical" part of ze game. The L7A3 (Bordkannone L7A3 in Blitz) shares many of its properties with the L7A1 (4202 gun) on British tanks. It carries the traditional APDS (APCR in blitz) and HESH (oh baby we all know this) rounds the L7A1 carries. But it also carries the HEATFS (Heat) rounds. [This post is a joke]

[full token]

It was nerfed because it used to be at the very top for heavies for a long time. Why go back to that

[uneven narwhal]

The IS-4 is a great tank even now, doesn't need a buff

[winged barn]

Is4 isn't completely oppressive, needs buff

[nova geode]

I barley ever see it anymore on NA

[split minnow]

Running it and angling makes you just as much of a menace. Just cause type is cool don’t mean is4 heat still don’t apply

[full token]

That doesn’t mean it needs a buff. There just can be other heavies that perform better, or other tanks that are fun

[scarlet fjord]

fam ur asking for heavy tank buffs
aside from the E5 they dont need buffs
and nerfing the IS-7 top speed will seriously and i mean SERIOUSLY get a lot of people angry me included

[uneven narwhal]

Nerf the armor, the 50kmph top speed is what made the IS-7 fun to play

[scarlet fjord]

besides there are way more unbalanced vehicles than IS-7 that need nerfing at tier 10 fix that before u think of touching IS-7
the IS-7 remained plain for years and now for oncee its meta

[nocturne mauve]

It needs more HP? 😂 just adding more to the problem all heavies have nowadays

[real bison]

if you want a faster IS-7 with less armour, the Obj.260 exists

[sharp saddle]

IS-4 is fine where it is. The tank was at the top of tier ten for years, I think we can live with the tank being pushed out of the spotlight for once.

I don't really see why you want a buff to Object 268's armour profile. I always thought this tank was fine.

[next quail]

Just buff the bat chat and the e5. They are power creeped

[granite moss]

U can never add something balanced for once cant u
A tester in caliban literally pened the upper plate or the middle of my hull in a hull down T32 like butter
It was not gold i believe this crap uses HEAT

[vital basalt]

It has Hesh and Ap, With Calibrated it has 229mm Ap pen which is not enough to go through upper plate of T32 and 187mm hesh, also caliban is slow, its armor is paper, accuracy? What's that

[granite moss]

There's also this
Very balanced i see

[vital basalt]

Everything about this tank sucks, it's hesh has 354m/s shell velocity, for example rhm's shell velocity is 650m/s, 0.42 dispersion is bad, 0.38/0.38/0.19 is horrendous, 30 forward is slow, power to weight is fine and its armor is also paper

[leaden flare]

if the caliban can shoot ur hull when ure hulldown youre not hulldown

the tank prob shot you with hesh splashing you for a few hundred

[granite moss]

To me anything that can 1 shot things so easily like that is not balanced
183 is the only excuse for that because its a tier 10 and its a td its meant for that and tier 10s can take a hit or 2 from it and survive
But this is a tier 8 excluding some heavies tier 8 doesn't have alot of hp literally most of tds in tier 8 has just 1000 - 1100 hp and caliban did an easy 923 what stops it from doing over 1100 and it can enter matches with tier 7 and tier 7 has alot of weak tanks

Please do not go and say "WeLl tHeRe iS ISU-152 and Rhm ThEy cAn 1 ShOt t0o WhY DoNt YUo CoMpLaiN AbOut TheM To0????"
These tanks are a complete different story from Caliban

[leaden flare]

what stops it ?
it has iirc 860 on its hesh which is 100 lower than the avg 152mm gun which is 960 and that already exists at t7 and even at t6 so t8 can easily deal with it

and no they arent a different story they can hit much more reliably and are overall much more dangerous

[stray pivot]

People complaining about the type 71 and how the lower plate should be nerfed, i kinda disagree

It's lower plate is already 100mm you bounce cause it's near 70° of angle, meaning autorichochet for AP and APCR

I would suggest just nerfed the entire upper front plate to 148mm, this would give it around 265mm of effective armor at it's ground level (56°), enough for most gold rounds to pen

[leaden flare]

so its left with a turret with fairly easy hittable cheeks
a horrible upper plate thats basically useless against prammo unless at an insane angle
the turretring weakspot
bad dpm and meh gunhandling imo

and gd or pretty good mobility but still a top speed of barely above 40

[stray pivot]

That or nerf the sprocket armor, haven't figured out the rest of the stats yet
But mobility is fine they can keep it

Wait i forgot something
I realised that i haven't fought type 71 a lot, suprisingly (in fact i saw more type 68 than type 71)

So my opinion can still change

Yes im dumb

[raw geyser]

I would instead suggest to nerf its entire side armor to around 67-80 mm instead

And that includes the sprocket armor

[neat crescent]

So, the Japanese version of E5 then? 💀

[nova geode]

🇷🇺
Obj 268: leave as is
Obj 263: leave the same
IS-7: buff premium pen to 310mm
IS-4: buff turret traverse
Obj 140: buff turret armor buff premium pen 300mm
T-62A: leave the same
T-100 LT: buff soft terrain crossing capacity nerf armor
Better?

[raw geyser]

On IS-7
Literally leave it as it is, its a fine tank and the current premium pen of it is one of its balancing factors from the start.. I personally fear that your suggestion to buff its prammo will throw off its balance

On IS-4,
I guess its alright

@distant river yes very true. But am just saying, currently its not in the need of any other buff or any adjustment that is close to a buff because of those buffs it got when it received pbr

[sleek grove]

only t100lt needs nerf yall gotta chill

[nocturne mauve]

Literally heavies only need nerfs at this point

[distant river]

IS7 buff IS7 buff IS7 buff

I can be penned occasionally so it must need buff

@raw geyser It's nowhere near fine how it is, it used to be marginally overperforming like all heavies before the huge side armour and turret buff when it got pbr.

[nova geode]

I was saying cause I hear a lot of people complain about the bad premium pen

[nocturne mauve]

It’s just a bad idea to buff heavies in the first place, they’re already the dominant class by far

[leaden flare]

Best performing t10 wr wise for the avg player iirc
Clearly needs a buff

[raw geyser]

I think IS-7 players want the tank to be able to penetrate VK 90.01 P cheeks reliably

[uneven narwhal]

IS-7 is already broken why do people want to buff it

[rotund scarab]

Why the test is only Europe and america is wg racist(that is just joke)

[wicked quest]

Image so crusty doesn’t even show the pen mark

[winged barn]

You can still destroy an is7 cant you?

This needs to be fixed.

[raw geyser]

I think he can still kill one when going to its rear

proceeds to add 300 mm raw rear armor which is covered by E 100 spaced armor

[open frost]

Nerf the traverse of type 71 but buff the turret traverse

The equipment just makes the armor of type 71 insane when its wiggling too fast

[silver sedge]

Camo rating of Grille 15 compared to camo rating of WT auf Pz. IV is very strange? I hope WG is giving Grille in 9.1 better camo rating ☹️

[solid scaffold]

No, buff the traverse or reduce the bloom whenever it turns the gun
The king of campers doesn't need more camo value

[sand wagon]

It's because grille has pbr, while wt does not

[scarlet fjord]

Ur asking to buff IS-7 it's literally meta bro

[next quail]

The "king" of the snipers the grille has about 45 camo while staying, when shooting with that big cannon you are more visible than a shooting barn. The wt has a camo rating of 60/65 while staying. The wt is very good, the grille is meh. I d rather play the wt

[uneven narwhal]

Ofc you'd rather play a broken tank than a balanced one

[frail silo]

Grille might be a sniper but you should play it as a second line instead of red lining or camping
plus the gun is way better on the grille albeit the pen being worse the accuracy and shell velocity are just so nice
honestly grille is in a perfect spot of balance right now despite the buffs to heavies n all that

[cursive schooner]

260 is t8 gold level…

[twin egret]

Chad Caliban enjoyer

[candid rose]

Why do shells slow down so much a 168 ton tank. LIKE WHY. Its just so annoying in gravity cuz if you wanna ram someone they can just shoot you constantly and reverse away. AAHHHHH

[cursive schooner]

It’s literally at least 50kg of metal going at 1000 m/s which is 3600 km/h so it’s kinda understandable right?

[scarlet fjord]

i even frontline it sometimes against heavies but obviously thats extremely situational

[frail silo]

yeah that is fun to do every once in a while but you gotta be extremely cautious n careful + your heavies have to be supporting or at least take shots for you

[scarlet fjord]

yeah obviously if you dont wait for an opening and poke you could get set on fire tracked and what not torn apart almost instantly its risky but you can tear apart a heavy flank on your own with the right timings obviously you need rammer for this

[candid rose]

Eh yea but your tank still jumps up like its super light lmao. Even if its a riccochet. I guess… welp i still dont really like the thrusters. They make light heavys practicaly usless as they are prone to get bullied by flying tanks or get rammed by much heavier ones

[cursive schooner]

Well yes heavies are kinda useless in gravity nowadays even heavier ones I think because they can be outplayed easily

[prisma jetty]

That’s good. We have one game mode where heavies aren’t dominant, let’s keep it that way

[candid rose]

Who said heavys are dominant. They still get bullied pretty easily tbh

[distant river]

Lol someone hasn't played a game at tier 10 in a while
Or seen balance charts
Or looked at stats...

@winged barn More updates than I can count, so at least four
Tbh idk how long heavy meta has been around, I've heard others say since 3.8 (?) with the great med nerf but I wasn't paying attention to the game back then 🤷‍♀️

[winged barn]

Uhhhh
How long is a while

[prisma jetty]

Statistics say heavies are dominant. They hold over half of the top 20 relative WR positions in tier 10. And there’s 3 other classes in the game.

[candid rose]

Yea thats true. @prisma jetty i didnt know that. Mostly i see heavys get absolutely rekt idk why

[distant river]

Not TDs so tend to not be at the back of the map and the last to die, and you get 3 of them per game so unless you stay until the end of games most likely you'll see heavies die more, it makes sense logically

[unique scaffold]

Any thoughts on what will be happening to 183 in 9.1? 🤔

[hearty steeple]

I would think it'll be one of the few tanks that won't see many changes if any. 183 has always been a pain to balance for wg, and I doubt they'd want to bring that back

[main tulip]

Buff the normal HE alpha to give an incentive to use it over hesh

[wicked quest]

And the fact thruster was nerfed to further sell vk 168s

[candid rose]

Damn, the thrusters actualy felt less powerful

[twin egret]

totally

[elfin brook]

Buff is7 traverse speed

[uneven narwhal]

No

[raw geyser]

Buff the No

[remote oriole]

No too weak, pls buff

[uneven narwhal]

Hmm
NO.

[next quail]

Buff the bat chat, i see no point in playing bat chat when i can play tvp apart from its speed

[full token]

Clip reload, speed, size, camo

[next quail]

Low hp, bad interclip, a 105 with 310 alpha? Bullied by literally almost any med

[uneven narwhal]

It's admittedly weak right now but there are certainly benefits by playing it over the TVP, I prefer my BC anyday over the TVP

[remote oriole]

I mainly appreciate the shorter reload

[full token]

Ignore the 105mm. Alpha stopped being so closely related to gun caliber. You also shouldn’t be brawling with mediums like you have armor. It has speed and a good clip. 930 and then you reload for a very short 14s. If you’re stuck with a half full clip you don’t need to find a way to survive 20s till you reload. Just 14s and you are back with 3 shots. I don’t see how the TVP replaces anything. It’s got medium tank mobility, not even the best for a medium. The Batchat has some of the best mobility. Also it has more hp than the Vickers and T100LT and the same as the Sheridan. It’s a light tank not a medium

[next quail]

Indeed, but it remained behind. There are also vickers lights, and t 100lt's running around, which either have armor or hesh or spotting mechanic. In bat chat you can only beat sheridans because it has less tonnes so you can ram it, and your upper plate is troll and can richochet a 155 sheridan shell. Of course bat chat is not played as a medium, i dont play like that, i play it at as a support active scout. But the vickers and t 100 can do this but better.

[fossil marten]

I’ll no doubt get battered for posting this cos it’s not about ‘balance’ but I think it is worth raising, the issue of multiple autoloaders/autoreloaders shifting the balance of the game. This battle, maybe unusual for the numbers involved but was pretty ‘unbalanced’ tank wise with 5 autoloader heavys (not sure if Stargazer is autoloader or autoreloader?) on one team against 1 autoloader and 3 single shot heavys.
The autoreloader mediums on each team cancel each other out. So the dominant factor, imho, is the superior firepower of the 5 autoloading heavys together on one team.
Surely it’s time WG factored that into the MM calculation? 🤷‍♂️

[main tulip]

It's actually worse for your team to be oversaturated with autoloaders imo, you should take your complaints to the opposite direction

[sudden drum]

Yeah, mm doesnt care whether its an autoloader or not.

[remote oriole]

I think he is right. Autoloading and autoreloading tanks are not comparable to single shot tanks. This needs to be considered when balancing and in the greater scope of the game as well

[fossil marten]

Guys I know MM doesn’t curently take the nature of the gun into account but I’m suggesting they (WG) should now be considering it.
As for the poster who said it’s actually worse in this scenario (😂)….seriously ! That team had the capacity with 5 autoloading heavies to dump close to 5000 damage in a matter of seconds, which they did. I don’t know how you can conclude they’re at a disadvantage in the MM in that battle 🤷🏻‍♂️

[distant river]

Because they are then totally vulnerable on a long reload...?

7bcs will massacre 7mice because of the huge advantage in speed
7mice will massacre 7bcs because of the huge advantage in hp

Battles are not just about who can dump damage in a short amount of time, they are about a huge range of factors. If all you focus on is one specific aspect, of course you will think one team has an advantage. If you look at the battle properly, you will not...

[elfin wing]

Adding new rules will make the waiting times longer and longer. And similar requests can be done easily. Once you start considering gun type (for each tier), you need to consider other things as well, like huge alpha guns vs dpm guns.

When you see the tanks of the enemy, you should act accordingly. If you mindlessly turn a corner with a no or low armored vehicle, you will be vanished. So you need to bait some of their shots, then it will be your turn. Setting more and more rules will kill the diversity, then in each match we need to do similar things (like tasks) and as a result get bored easily.

[fossil marten]

I’d suggest in your 7bcs v 7 mice example the real advantage, depending on the map, is the BCs view range and camo rating.
But anyway, in the real game example I posted above it would take an incredible amount of luck (in terms of the players ability and experience) to be able to counter the firepower that can be unleashed by 5 autoloading heavies, given heavy armour in the current meta is much better than its ever been in the past. By the time you’ve tried to communicate a strategy you’re already toast 😅

[distant river]

See, even you know that there are so many different advantages you can choose, you just didn't apply it to the situation you decided to post about. And you are also contradicting yourself by assuming that your team cant work together to counter a push, but the reds can work together and push effectively. And only the K91 and 752 have good armour in that game on the reds, whereas you have the 112, IS3 and type68 to hold, the borsig to cover, and two meds to spot so any rush isn't a surprise. For random tanks, its a good team to counter autoloaders. Again you are still totally focused on the firepower forgetting about what the actual battle is

[fossil marten]

Might be because I’m playing in the real world of blitz and not that rarified stratosphere you appear to inhabit. But we’re all entitled to an opinion.

[deep temple]

Day 17 of asking for 30b Buff on gun handling or dpm

[distant river]

What's the point in coming here to complain then ignoring the solutions and advice you get given ._.

[sharp saddle]

That’s how it goes. It’s hard for many people in this community to have a rational debate without getting an attitude

[prisma jetty]

If auto loading heavies were as dominant as you claim, they would be rampant in comp. However, you see more IS-7s and 60TPs than 50Bs and Yohs. This is because the downtime of an auto loading heavy is a serious drawback, leading to them being not as dominant as they may seem at first

[distant river]

Comp isn't really a good indicator of meta for randoms, if a tank is used in comp then it generally isn't bad, but that definitely doesn't mean that most used tanks are the most meta for randoms

[neat crescent]

^ see 268/4 as an example

[lone sandal]

i love how 268/4 is impervious in front of half the tanks and gets buttered through from the front by the other half of the tanks

[fossil marten]

Maybe because I always take what you say with a large handful of salt, cos that’s how you generally give it. Of course in an ideal world all players in your team would have a clue how to use their tank effectively. But that’s a separate discussion not for this channel and outside of Comp games not realistic, imo.
I raised this issue of the potential imbalance autoloaders can have if they disproportionately outnumber one team against another. You and I disagree on how much impact that can have. You believe it’s irrelevant, you’re entitled to that opinion.
@sharp saddle I’m happy to have a ‘rational debate’ but when responses are veiled insults I switch off.

[distant river]

I'm literally just telling you that you are looking at it from an irrational and biased viewpoint, autoloaders and single shot tanks do not perform differently on the whole, and do not imbalance the game, as the statistics show. Instead its heavies as a whole who are the ones who imbalance the game currently due tot he large amount of buffs they received. There are 9 clippers out of 52 tanks at tier 10, so you'd expect to have between 3 and 4 of them in the top 20 performing tanks, of which there are 4. So pretty much exactly as you'd expect, so no evidence that autoloaders are unbalanced as a whole

[fossil marten]

😂 I know that you’re telling me, just like you always “tell me” how I should be seeing things.
I’d love to know where I have complained that autoloaders themselves are unbalanced? As far as I can see, I haven’t. 🤷🏻‍♂️
But it’d be interesting to see the same chart as ☝️for tier 9 and 8, if you’d be so kind?

[full token]

Then what’s the reason in saying the autoloaders have superior firepower and shouldn’t be imbalanced between the teams?

[distant river]

but was pretty ‘unbalanced’ tank wise with 5 autoloader heavys

So the dominant factor, imho, is the superior firepower of the 5 autoloading heavys together on one team

As said, there's no need to balance something that's already balanced, all it does is remove variety. They are all available on blitzanalysiz.com, better than spamming here with pics, and I tell you to look at things without bias and so in a way that's vaguely helpful and relevant.

If there was evidence that autoloaders were overperforming in general, then there would be slight reason to balance them across teams, otherwise there's no reason at all

[fossil marten]

Because there were 5 of them, against 1 and 3 single shots. Which (imo) is imbalanced. But I’ve been told now, I’m wrong and apparently I’m meant to commune with 6 random strangers, who may or may not speak the same language, to communicate a strategy to counter that collective firepower. But of course the poor 5 autoloaders are the disadvantaged ones cos they’ve got a long reload and there were only 5 of them!

[full token]

Tanks in either team aren’t always the same anyway. You usually have to get a different strategy to the enemy. If the autoloaders aren’t too strong then you just have to find what strategy works. The team won’t always cooperate but it’s alright to not win every battle. Just consider it as an unwinnable battle when your team can’t figure out how to counter 5 autoloaders

[prisma jetty]

The amount of downtime that autoloaders get makes them inherently balanced

[distant river]

This just comes back to assuming that your team can't do anything about the autoloaders while assuming the reds can use them. This will happen from time to time, and it will also happen the opposite way where your team can counter them well and the reds can't use them. So it evens out, so you look at the scenario where both teams have the same ability, and see that there's no problem to complain about.

[fossil marten]

Never thought of that, brilliant, 8 years of playing the game and you’ve just opened my eyes! Well done 👏👏👏

[full token]

You’re welcome

[full token]

Lol

[distant river]

Being able to think of something then being able to apply it instead of complaining that it's not working are two very different things, and only one part is useful to anyone...

[pseudo bobcat]

Unless you're doing 900dmg in 5s and only have to reload for 13s then yea

[fossil marten]

At last, a sensible reply. ☝️👍

[prisma jetty]

Oh boy, one of 9 tanks has one gun that proves your point

[full token]

The yoh. Such a great example of balance
Not many autoloaders even get that reload

[fossil marten]

How many tanks do you think are on each team? 😳
try reading the OP again, there were 5 (autoloaders) of them, (out of 7 😉) all able to deliver that level or slightly higher in just over 10 seconds or less. Which was kinda the point I was trying to make until the all knowing being told me what to think 💭 🤪

[distant river]

So the point issss...?

Autoloaders are unbalanced?
Or you lost a game and didn't like it?
Orrr something else you'll explain?

[prisma jetty]

So all 5 of them were Yohs? If so, that’s incredible!

[unique scaffold]

There are games where u can get 7 autoloaders/auto reloaders, the thing is, why do you care that much about that, like you are alone Vs all of them. The part of the autoloaders/ auto reloaders it's shoot and fall back into cover, your part it's to count those shells, try to bounce as much as you can, and then fight back. Some of the autoloaders, like the yoh have 13sec reload plus 5 sec for the intraclip reload, but have 2 big cupolas, which are kinda easy to hit and punish it.

[fossil marten]

@prisma jetty @distant river you’re really struggling with this aren’t you.
I can’t put it any more simply than there were 5 heavy autoloaders on one team v 1 heavy autoloader and 3 single shot heavies on the other team.
In fact in total one team actually had 7 autoloader tanks v 2 autoloaders on the other team. Which to my mind seems a little unbalanced due to the output speed of the autoloaders damage against the single shot tanks.
Now if you cannot understand that, I can’t help you any more. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[distant river]

Having a team full of tanks that doesn't include the number 8 in their names is a similar thing. If they perform the same, there's no reason to complain. If you think their damage output is an advantage, then you need to look at the statistics which show it is not. Otherwise it's one specific but irrelevant condition on a tank.

[prisma jetty]

So basically you’re complaining about MM? Each team had 7 tanks, each with their own strengths. It was a fair fight, with skill determining that your team lost

[fossil marten]

The collective firepower of 7 autoloaders against 2 and 5 single shot tanks is not balanced. And the subject of autoloaders being unbalanced as collectives rather than individuals has been brought up before, and will undoubtedly continue to be brought up in future. Because whilst individually ‘balanced’; once you load one team with a glaringly obvious numerical advantage then they become unbalanced.
@prisma jetty I’m talking about team composition, not player skill. Unless a player is completely incompetent then the output of 7 autoloaders in one team will quite obviously overwhelm a team with only 2 autoloaders and 5 single shot tanks.
I acknowledge that it’s not impossible for the 2 autoloaders and 5 single shot tanks to beat 7 autoloaders but I would suggest that, outside of comp games, it’s highly unlikely.
So my point is that perhaps it is, finally, time for WG to address that issue, much as they have previously addressed things like missiles and TD numbers. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[distant river]

But the stats show that isn't the case. There may be more focused advantages, but that obviously means more focused disadvantages. As shown by stats, these balance eachother out so there is no problem. You are trying to say something that directly contradicts stats, which is never a good place to start.

You think that combining autoloaders only makes then more effective, which it can do in the right hands, however it can also very much do the opposite. You need to appreciate both outcomes, rather than just the one you saw.

[fossil marten]

As I said; I do acknowledge that it’s not a certain outcome, but I think if you surveyed 100 or a 1000 players randomly and asked them what they thought the outcome would be of that scenario ☝️I think a majority would vote for the 7 autoloaders winning.
I recall quite vividly the animated (for want of a better word) exchanges between loads of players inc CCs, YouTubers and top clans about the issue of missiles. Most top players didn’t see a problem because they were able to use them effectively. But WG removed them. And the same for the number of TDs per team, which is perhaps a more apt comparison, no one said those TDs were unbalanced individually but collectively they caused issues both positive and negative for game play and outcomes and WG introduced the max of 3 rule.
So it’s been done before I’m just raising the question of whether the same review should be taken of autoloaders. I get that you don’t echo that view, and I respect your opinion.
@prisma jetty see my comments about TDs ☝️

[prisma jetty]

If 7 autoloaders was so completely oppressive, why don’t more people run autoloaders? The downtime after their clip leads to them being basically useless for 15-20 seconds, giving cyclic guns a good chance for a counter push. Add in the fact that most autoloaders are rather fragile tanks and it shows that 7 autoloaders aren’t as oppressive as they may seem.

[nimble zodiac]

Be a shame if autoloaders had to actually expose themselves in order to do damage, unlike missiles

[elfin wing]

When we start using plateaus as maps in game? Why you think it like we immediately start firing each other and the 7 "mighty" auto reloaders instantly kill three enemies (i mean, it it wiser to eliminate guns if you start watching stars for the next X second) while taking little to no damage?

[deep temple]

Day 18 of asking for 30b Buff on gun handling or dpm

[distant river]

Surveying players is useless, looking at performance stats is not, and the performance stats do not agree with you. Your comparison with atgms is obviously totally meaningless, but the comparison with class based matching has slightly more standing. You want subclass based matching, but that's already been done (can't specifically remember when, but I've definitely seen old old articles about defining different tanks as having different roles for matchmaking) and WG removed it to increase variety. I can't remember a single complaint I've seen since, so it was both a popular and a useful change.

The other issue with the comparison is that TDs have very different gameplay to the other classes, and this isn't a gameplay that WG wanted to see being so widespread, so they limited them. Autoloader gameplay is much more similar to other subclasses, and is much less detrimental to the game.

[fossil marten]

Autoloader gameplay is much more similar to other subclasses, and is much less detrimental to the game except if you’re unlucky enough to meet 7 of them at the same time!
But anyway, as usual we’ll have to agree to disagree.

[unique scaffold]

Uh 🤔 the 50b in groups preforms better as it’s faster

[west matrix]

I missed the stream, and I'm too busy to watch them. What happened to the STB and Ho-Ri?

@real bison shows you how much I'm paying attention.

[real bison]

my guy the stream has not happened yet

[distant river]

Even then, it's a much much smaller difference than a tank that has no turret and cannot be used aggressively with success by most players and so camps all game. Its just a high alpha tank in disguise that needs more exposing. You can try control things like this and make every game the same tanks, or you can see that there's no issue. Judging off the number of complaints, almost everyone goes for the second option.

[prisma jetty]

That’s not what i was saying but okay

[scarlet fjord]

i just encountered Skoda T56
WG how high were you when you gave it that alpha?

[neat crescent]

Not a lot, it's easy to kill really

[scarlet fjord]

thats not balanced
do you know what 450 alpha on that type of tank does to your team mates?

[nimble zodiac]

VK 100.01 P and VK 168.01 P:

But then again the 640 HE on T 56 is pretty bonkers

[neat crescent]

Not that you're gonna be using it a lot but I guess it's helpful

[scarlet fjord]

those are german super heavies
not russian playstyle heavy
there's a reason russian playstyle have bad guns or were you unaware of that

[nimble zodiac]

I'm unaware of why it's balanced, then =>

[plain dirge]

not only is the skoda not a russian playstyle tank
but its gun handling and dpm are both terrible

it has great alpha and amazing HE but its aimtime is absolutely horrid, dispersion isnt great, etc

[scarlet fjord]

wooow I see I'm on the wrong planet

[rain fractal]

what do you mean

[unique scaffold]

damn its hard to keep up with these discussions lol

[scarlet fjord]

he's taking the piss
he's describing a russian playstyle and then calling it not a russian playstyle

[merry pelican]

need rebalance for caenarvon and qonqueror 😢

[daring saddle]

Why? Their armor already weak af

[nimble zodiac]

He said rebalance, not a nerf

[daring saddle]

Mhmmm, okay. But why do these 2 tanks need to rebalance? The reload speed?

[deep temple]

More like armour buff at least on the turret

[daring saddle]

I think yeah, since the only that can bounce shell it's gun manlet

[full token]

Caernarvon seems good enough now after the recent buffs

[leaden flare]

Why does everyone need tons of Armor on a heavy tank ?
Caer is absolutely cracked at t8 3k dpm with good gun handling and tons of hp + consumables

[daring saddle]

Yeah that what i was think before. Like why Caernevon even need a rebalance

[viscid blade]

because heavies need armor so noobs can sit hull down and take 0 dmg

[merry pelican]

nah 😢 its heavy line

[leaden flare]

You know higher tier tanks don't need better Armor to be better
Caer is just insane if used right just like t32 even if not as good other than it having an insane dmg output over t32

[empty scroll]

The obj 268 V4 needs a nerf on its armor.

[scarlet fjord]

Skoda T56 has 8 degrees of gun depression and very very solid on movement dispersion
meaning if you make small movements the bloom wont be big and since it has that gun depression ur gonna be fully aimed in most of the time
plus the russian style it can play in corridors

[main tulip]

Conqueror should get a gun and/or mobility buff, not a turret armor buff
Or heck maybe even 10 degrees of gun depression

[vital basalt]

It already has the best gun among tier 9 heavies, maybe more mobility would be nice

[twin egret]

Conqueror preforms better than the FV215b tier for tier honestly, it even has better accuracy overall somehow (all stats are the same, except for on movement, the Conqueror for some reason has better on movement dispersion than the FV)

[waxen osprey]

Honestly no, I can easily overwatch its sides even with lights. The armor is the only real thing going for it other than alpha, but keep in mind that even a slight bit of angling can make those sides super duper weak.

[vague carbon]

Yea its pretty good but your forgetting you can just get the better tech tree version of it called the 53tp

[scarlet fjord]

yeah well WG dont wanna nerf that either

[lone sandal]

if youre purposely weakening the armour of your tank, of course youd be punished for that
its basically impervious in front of half of the t10s
and yet it gets buttered through by every t10 heavy that uses heat (and tds obviously lol)
not sure how to feel about that :v

[native parrot]

batchat buff, someway

[hollow quiver]

Buff t44 100

[vague carbon]

I still think it would be better for the game to have it reworked instead of nerfed as if u take away the armour it has nothing really going for it

[lone sandal]

yes of course a rework is better than a nerf it doesnt need a nerf its balancing is just odd

[modest compass]

what happened to today's planned stream about 9.1?

[soft frost]

1h30min past due time...

[crystal nova]

was the stream postponed?

[uneven narwhal]

yes

[safe rapids]

Classic WG

Oh man…you’re touching a nerve if you genuinely think that camouflage is beautiful.

I think it’s hideous

[leaden flare]

Same

[winged barn]

Lol

[safe rapids]

Wow
The 122 TM is a decent tank though.

[neat crescent]

Yeah, decent enough to not be worth 20k

🤷‍♂️ IG for u it was worth 20k gold, since it seems you're a collector but for the regular player, paying tier 10 prices for a t8 is costly lol

[severe dirge]

not very fair

[neat crescent]

Very fair, i once did 28k and still lost

[severe dirge]

but the fv has only 14 bullets and a 10 sec reload

[uneven narwhal]

It doesn't need any more in the normal mode

[sweet sluice]

*shells

Tanks fire shells, not bullets.

[severe dirge]

Stfu smartass nobody asked

[unique scaffold]

isn't like the difference is that big its only a 121 dmg difference and i dont think anyone would use it even if had a bit more dpm like 150-200

[full token]

the maus gun on the e100 is a stock gun. Not meant to be a choice

[vital basalt]

Yea but I wish wg made some stock guns competitive with top guns

[real bison]

^ please buff the stock 155mm on the F155

[safe rapids]

????
You mean competitive?
That completely undermines the concept of stock modules

[cursive schooner]

Still, why do we need to have stock modules on t10 tanks

I understand they kept the Foch gun for Example when they added the autoloader or they made the E100 have the Maus gun but why are they practically useless

[vital basalt]

Ah yes, didnt noticed lol

[candid rose]

Damn im so happy i got the T-62A. Its just such a good tank though only drove it in big boss now. The T-54 was fun but this is even funnier. Also being the boss is just total mayhem

[raw geyser]

General rule of thumb, the 15 cm gun on E 100 is its main gun of choice. The 12.8 cm is only a stock gun. And it probably wouldn’t exactly fit the tank nowadays even if it got buffed, in my opinion

[deep temple]

Day 19 of asking for 30b Buff on gun handling or dpm

[hearty steeple]

Funny thing is you would have had your answer if the open test wasn't postponed

[neat crescent]

Day 80 of ñ

[fading hawk]

What happened to the open test? I applied but I can’t find the download link place

[uneven narwhal]

#open-test-announcements

[plucky temple]

Suggestion we should have an clan shop where we get points to buy things boosters free xp and other stuff, and we can also buy rere removed T4, and T3 Tanks like T15 Amx 50 100 the duck I forget the name, and an T6 Premium Tank like SU-100Y or something else, and finally an T8 Premium Tank, and also it should also have tech tree containers which drop random fully upgraded tech tree tanks, Why you are are laughing at me? Another example of Blitz community being toxic to suggestions. IMAO, why you're all mad at me for suggesting to give free stuff?.

[civic topaz]

What else should it drop for you? Premium tanks, fully upgraded tanks, 100k gold, 10 million credits?

[candid rose]

Amx 50 100 is tech tree 🤦‍♂️

[full token]

Tech tree tanks have been in crates before

[remote oriole]

The duck is AMX 40

[uneven narwhal]

I would also like skill to be added to the shop so I can stop throwing

[scarlet fjord]

hah funi

[plucky temple]

@candid rose I mean I forget the name of the duck End why you're mad at me?, I hope whenever you open an container it drops emojis and other useless item's instead of an tank

[wind nimbus]

He's mad?

[candid rose]

Who said i was mad? Ohh i didnt see you were talking to mod. I had no idea what end was for

[plucky temple]

@Энд 🇮🇸#9397 Premium Tanks are rere in game, you can only get through events or other wicked ways, Wg does not do events regularly they do it Monthly, by suggesting to give people free stuff maybe not give T8 Premium tho, it will only give then more motivation to play the game, Buff I I'm to talking to end not you. That End guy is completely toxic and has no idea what I'm talking about, of course they were rere occasions.? Malding I have already have Everything I wanted I'm just suggesting I have no interest nor intentions to get Premium tanks, yes I know Büt ever heard of "Stock experience"?. That's the point we big Player's have everything in our piggy bank but newer Player's have no to nothing in terms of free xp or gold. By giving Lower tier Tanks newer Player's could have something to time pass it, or to Grind it , or to experience it I already said I wouldn't mind if Wg didn't make clan shop with T8 Premium I think is too unnecessary.

[sleek grove]

you re just malding cause you cant be good enough to save gold or other resources to get premium tanks.
even more, you should have known by now that wg gave multiple times premium tanks of tier 6 7 and 8 for FREE or almost FREE.
but you re too entitled to realise

[sweet sluice]

I kind of like and dislike the idea of there being a clan shop since I think it would be cool to see some vehicles that were removed in 5.5 on the battlefield. But I don't think that tier 8 premium tanks should go up for sale there, nor large amounts of credits or free experience.

[uneven narwhal]

Premium tanks are not rare at all to obtain
There are plenty given away during events and last year was an especially great time to earn them
You cannot expect Wargaming to just give away premium tanks on a constant basis
Everyone likes free stuff, doesn't mean that it's good for the game

tech tree containers which drop random fully upgraded tech tree tanks
Just grind dude, it's easy as hell with all the free stuff we've been getting
Stock experience
That's what Free XP is for, you skip the stock modules to get a upgraded tank instead of wasting it on researching a new tank and then getting stuck with a stock one

You can also, like C1P said just save up gold and buy the premiums from store
18k a year from ads, and easily 8k+ from BPs, events, clan missions, etc.

[plucky temple]

@sleek grove I'm not even malding If I suggest something too good doesn't mean I have self interest in it, your argument doesn't make any sense, even if I was malding it would make several months to even implement it by it appears to the battlefield it would be already obsolete to me. #put more thought into your comment.

[pseudo bobcat]

We can alr get a lot of free stuffs weekly from clan missions.

Giving away free T8 for everyone isn't a sustainable business model.

Free upgraded tech tree would remove the whole point of the game (grinding)

There's a difference between being generous and giving away your life to someone that you don't even know

[plucky temple]

@pseudo bobcat ok

[drowsy plaza]

And absolutely no relevance to balance.

[scarlet fjord]

💀

[neat crescent]

You're at least 6 months late and 3 months late after everyone stopped complaining and caring about C1B

[silk geode]

bro, is there a possibility that this cannon will be added as a variation of the derp gun on the 215b? I Mean longer barrel version

[sweet sluice]

No, but there might be a Centurion AVRE tier 8 fair and balanced premium tonk now that you've mentioned it

But jokes aside, that would be pretty nice, derping someone in a Fv215b

[analog ruin]

Giving T-62A a another gun that is a Auto loader 3 shell it's accurate in real life but the aiming time is bigger but it's fire rate decrease

[stuck acorn]

Am i the only one who hates WG's idea on removing all low tier guns on mid/high tier vechicles?

Like what was the point in doing it? There was completly none. Why couldn't they just let them be? Not many people were using them, neither they interrupted gamplay in any way. On the other side i and probably some other players too found it extremely fun to challange myself and try to make them work. There was nothing more satysifying than clapping some german T10 superheavy with M46 equipped with T5 105 howtizer.

Actually i think most of these guns were workable. You just had to know where to aim to deal damage with HE.

These guns were usually researched already at lower tier tanks and were outside of main module research line so they didn't require extra grind to move to another tank at all.

For me they were adding a lot of variety in playstyle because with their horrendous pen you always had to outsmart your enemy to deal basically any damage to him.

I miss these old stock configurations of tanks, now every tank WG is adding has one stock gun that is just top gun downgraded in every possible way. There is nothing fun in using them as they are just clearly bad with no factors that would make people try to make them work. I would personally rather grind top gun on for example Tiger 1 using 105mm hetzer gun than this trash short 88 we have now.

Why WG thinks everything needs to be good to be fun? They scrapped the game out of many funny challanging ways to play it and now try to diverse it by adding some super consumables or extra equipment that nobody like ever asked for

[wicked quest]

No those guns were not workable lol if you saw someone running that in battle I guarantee those were losses and the goal isn’t even stock guns anyway or upgradeable parts it’s always the final form and the last opinion isn’t unique it’s an old one a well known one

[stuck acorn]

@wicked quest ofc they were workable. Some of them are still left in the game, but it's only small part of these we used to have.

These guns were fine, only small amount of people were using them anyways so they weren't ruining games. Not even mentioning that they were used mostly by good players. Also this game is so addicting because you can pick your goal by yourself. Top gun is not necesarilly the goal.

Especially after you research everything you start to appreciate these small things that may diverse the game.

[sweet sluice]

Autoloaders in real life have a longer reload time than guns that are loaded by human crewmen. Also, good luck stuffing a 3 shell autoloader into an already cramped turret

@prisma jetty true, but an autoloader can break down and/or sever a crewman's limb (sure, the chamces are low, but there is still a bigger cahnce of getting injured by an autoloader than a human loader getting themselves injured). And in case that the loader does get injured, another crewmember can take their place. Meanwhile, autoloaders have can't really be replaced, only repaired, and that repair probably isn't going to take only half an hour.

[prisma jetty]

Not always. Some autoloaders load slower at first, but a human loader gets tired. An autoloader does not get tired.

[wicked quest]

No this is not accurate the gun is single shot the autoloader functions like normal please go read the wiki article for any slight accuracy

Again no they were not workable they were utter memes example being the 105mm howitzer on the M46 running that was handicapping yourself with these guns you can’t pen with either round on most targets and splashing is your best option and even then you’d only do 170-130 splash and then reload for even longer than a normal 75mm almost no “good” players have run it because doing so was extremely unfun why the hell would you handicap yourself in the most competitive tiers? Pubs or not

And top gun absolutely is the goal tanks like the T28 prot isu 152 E50 are incredibly painful stock and are a blessing to never have to deal with stock parts again

[stuck acorn]

I play this game only because of these still existing. I researched every tnk in the game, played thousands of battles and aquired basically everything you can aquire in this game. After all this time spent in the game it became extremely boring to play normal tanks. It's just no challanging at all. Everything you need to do is go into same position every single time and do same things. You don't even need to use your brain after spending some time in the game.

You ask why would i handicap myself? Because it's only way that i can have any challenge in this game anymore. Let's be honest - most of players in this game are bad. Playing the game normally is just to easy.

And about the second argument. Ofc not every stock is fun to use. Especially those recently added. And you forgot about one major thing i mentioned. These guns were nearly always somewhere in the side of module research tree and were always instantly researched when buying tank. There was literally nobody forcing you to use them. It was somethign you could use but was never forced to. Back then you at least had a choice between multiple stock guns. Now you are forced to play the most unfun one. Because these howtizers were mostly aboout one thing - they had trash accuaracy and pen, but usually a quick reload with strong HE shells and HEATs that were strong enough to pen low armoured targets and sides.

They weren't like current stocks bad in everything. If you were good enough you could use them to completly obliterate low armoured enemies and becuase of strong HE's you always had a chance to fight your enemy, even if he had a strong heavy tank. Now if you are stock and meet something with good armour you are usually screwed no matter what you do

[full token]

Not everyone is good enough to run them, and they will run them. Would be better if someone that wasn’t very good didn’t have the option for a gun that can be less reliable than some stock guns

[candid rose]

Wdym 8k+ from BP? Its not actualy free, cuz i think the point is about free stuff. Btw that 8k is like with all the stuff and if you sell the bp tanks?

[uneven narwhal]

BPs, events, and clan missions combined
Free BP btw

[scarlet fjord]

that was a reminder is all

[neat crescent]

This too is a reminder (i didn't even fully angle some of these)

Take 2 vs a TD with an even better pramo pen, running E.A (btw at that angle the eff.a. and angle just don't allow any shells to pen regardless for C1B, I'm guessing something similar would happen for type 71 if i could run the gun dep equipment)

Edit: checked to be sure, yes type 71 too becomes a tomato at that angle.

Extra check, C1B at 10-9 degrees of gun dep is still green(70-100% chance of penning) vs e3's pramo apparently, the front plate and some parts of the mantlet are at least

[scarlet fjord]

I used a HEAT round from a 268 to emphasize the problem Kran is the only other issue and M4 54

[neat crescent]

Not the "only" ones considering vs heat only little spots in game are pennable vs these tanks and with movement you're hardly hitting those

[nimble zodiac]

Want a challenge? Play competitively.

[scarlet fjord]

They have weakpoints the others don't trust me u can hit those small cheeks with accurate tanks at least

[vital basalt]

Well they dont have the gun depression either like Concept or Kran
Is4, Is7, Type 61 and 113 all have -6

[neat crescent]

Yet some of them are still great for use in comp and pubs with just -6, and 71 can go as far as -9, which is just the same as kran

[scarlet fjord]

they are good for different reasons
not because they are a 1 trick pony with broken hull down capabilities
IS-7 IS-4 113 these tanks can assault in 113 particularly it has incredible mobility to push forward and use one of the best heavy tank guns in the game if not the best

[winged barn]

Nah
T57 gets the best heavy tank gun award

[scarlet fjord]

in pubs yes its my best performing tank in the game i love T57
i was implying for tourneys

[viscid roost]

Nerf the obj 268 v4 for gods sake

[nimble zodiac]

No ._.

[neat crescent]

No .-.

[stuck acorn]

bruh. In this game we have only 2 types of competitive gameplay. Pro tournaments and ranked battles. First one is already blocked for me as i'm a PC player and second one is just nothing different than a random battle lol. Even if you are in diamond league you can still be matched with people from silver. There is literally no point in playing it.

At least from my perspective competitive gameplay in this game is nearly non existant and it's all about going hulldown with some medium mobility heavy anyways

[real bison]

funnily enough you can indeed buy a tier 8 premium through your clan for very cheap

[scarlet fjord]

Rework*

[bold dagger]

yeah got it

[nimble zodiac]

???

[dense ember]

we need to buff krank autoreloader reload. not a joke, seriously

[tiny plank]

why does so many people say the E3 armor is too OP ;-;

[nimble zodiac]

Well, combined with speed boost and a good gun, it’s not something to take lightly

[west narwhal]

E3 should remove extra consumables
It has too much pros rather than cons

[tiny plank]

i mean, the T95 does deal better DPM, has better armor, and its a t9. The E3 felt only like 5 km/hr faster than the T95

[nimble zodiac]

When E3 is literally 15km/h faster but can use a speed consumable to further enhance it.

Has 3 more GD, which is essential for a frontline TD to have when working terrain.

Has better p/w and an actually tolerable traverse speed.

Maybe 55 more APCR penetration, idk 😵‍💫

[tiny plank]

fair enough, and it is hard to take down when it hides that lower glacis. However for some reason playing it feels like playing a heavy without the side armor and a turret

i guess it is quite unmatched when facehugging though. i never really lost a 1v1 facehug in an E3

other than that i don't see how its "overpowered" as some people say

[silk geode]

Dont forget E3 easy to get fire of you pen with He on his side /back because E5 hull

[tiny plank]

exactly, plus people can sometimes damage your ammo rack from the front

[deep temple]

Day 20 of asking for 30b Buff on gun handling or dpm

[ebon lynx]

We will see if your desire will become true in 2 days

[scarlet fjord]

So many people asking for kranvagn buff and yet fail to see its strengths
It's the easiest tank to play in the game dude just go hull down and use ur brilliant gun depression for practically any terrain and you are NOT PENETRABLE by anything while you have an auto REloader and u wanna buff it for some reason
Statistically ppl are struggling in it don't ask me why the good players aren't and in fact it's one of their highest win rate tanks so no it doesn't need a buff

[sleek grove]

i really REALLY hope this is just a joke bc im going to scream if this is the actual 9.1 change

[pseudo bobcat]

Let's hope not, otherwise it's gonna be such a clusterf*ck to adapt to the new meta and I can alr see a lot of balancing problems and the PR nightmare that WG would have to address

[mental haven]

nice joke

9.1 LEAKS

E-100 HE pen | 85 -> 350 | OMG WOW 😱 😱 😱 😱
183 HESH pen | 220 -> 440 | 😱 😱 😱

[vital basalt]

Is4 50mm to side armor so 200mm
183 reticle
Yea i can assure you its real

[full token]

where is this from

[neat crescent]

Ah yes because leaks for an unreleased test .APK are very very believable 💀

[lone sandal]

i can confidently say all of them are wrong
why would they nerf 183 :v

[compact nymph]

Ah yes, Grille pen "nerfed" from 279 to 290mm💀

[hushed crag]

just hope the new tier 10 avg dmg wont be weird like wot pc

[hidden fox]

w h a t

[sly pumice]

Where'd you get that from?

[silk hamlet]

some of them seem believable but most of them are just... what?

[silk geode]

Hori with rotating cannon

[jade cargo]

RealChad ᵐᵘᶻ#0211 has been warned.

[rough parrot]

gg developers!

[scarlet fjord]

If those are the changes wow
They increasing the vodka while working perhaps

[scarlet bridge]

that's not a disease name
just a "bonus useless armor"

[winged barn]

4202 boutta become real scary if that's accurate

[sleek grove]

oh well most of them arent true.
some of them are plausible such as patton, kran , e5 and some others.

[scenic apex]

Honestly imo, if a few of those are fake, then I’m inclined to believe all of them are fake

[stuck acorn]

bruh that's an obvious fake. WG isn't that dumb

At least i hope so

[umbral void]

Some are completely nonsense but there are some that is correct. But I advise everyone Not to take any of it seriously. Wait for official changes on Monday.

[full token]

What even is the source... Seems like a bait for people to get mad about ‘leaked’ changes

[mental pasture]

It's clearly fake. E3 and E4 share the same cannon, so in order to buff one's alpha, the list should also mention the other. Also, WG does treat collector tanks exactly like premiums. They don't nerf both of them.

Some of them actually make sense like the 50b as the 4th shell was announced, but others simply no. WG hardly goes back after a decision and I really doubt that they'd go back to E5 stats

[dense ember]

yes, but a buff on reload, bro this tank have 1800 dpm, just buff to 2000. 1800 can t even kill a vk168 in 1 minute. but the tank is good, good dep, good mobility, good turret, but the reload sucks

[distant river]

You are literally saying that the balancing factor of the tank should be removed...

And ignoring the fact that is has a autoreloading clip at the same time

[viscid blade]

ah yes the holy triangle: armor, firepower, mobility
a balanced tank only has 2 of the 3, and kran has both armor and mobility

[full token]

They did treat collectors like premiums, but they can change that anytime if they want. They used to avoid any nerfs to any stats, like giving the K91 extra alpha and not nerfing the intraclip or clip reload in return, even though it obviously made the tank too strong. Now they’ve announced a nerf to the T95E6’s armor, though it’s a rebalance and not entirely a nerf with the buff to top speed and DPM. To me that looks like a change in their attitude towards collectors and maybe even premiums. Doesn’t mean the leak is true, but if it looks fake it doesn’t have to be because a collector gets a nerf. Besides, when their reason for not nerfing collectors was to not hurt the buyers and to not make them sell less, an update like this is a nice opportunity to change tanks up and nerf collectors, because if so many tanks get changed, it’s not so obvious when a collector gets nerfed if it’s opposition is also being nerfed or buffed

[scarlet fjord]

It's already too strong it's a heavy tank a superior class than all the rest and the kran is already better than most HEAVY TANKS let alone the majority of other tanks u want to buff a tank that is already better than every med and TD and most other heavies?

[stuck acorn]

buffing kran be like 💀

Kran is literally biggest cancer in this game. It's not overpowered obviously rn but it's still cancerous. All hulldown tanks with basically no weakspots promote stale boring hulldown sh*tfest. When you add an autoreloader to it you are basically making it a tank you can't push, but on the other hand you also can't deal with it when it's in position.

DPM is only thing holding it back from being completly overpowered.

[uneven narwhal]

Kran just has a high skill cap, making it seem bad in the eyes of the average player

[winged barn]

The kranny has abusable characteristics.
The 4202 is another tank with abusable characteristics.
The difference is that the kran can be abused in every single situation.

Find anything to hull down off of and the tank is able to put out damage one sidedly, and you cannot even push it out of it's broken positioning because it has a clip that will cripple you if you even try.
Hell, even if you do yolo it, it's got superspeed boost to yeet to the other side of the map [in reverse].

It's not even high skill cap. Find a hull down spot.
Keep the clip loaded so people don't yolo you.
Profit.

[uneven narwhal]

That takes skill, which the average player does not have
The thing that prevents bad players from abusing it is the lack of knowledge of when to hold for reload and when to shoot; autoreloaders are tricky in that aspect
It's average WR proves how bad they are with it

I like my Kranvagn, and still think it's a good tank due to it's hulldown capability and a flexible clip
But it's just not a low skill cap tank

[winged barn]

I would agree for a prog, where you actually might want to clip dump.

But the kran isn't a case of that. You keep that thing loaded until you are about to die. Sure lack of knowledge might hurt, but I just explained it in very simple terms that even a complete noob would understand.

(You see this cranberry noobs? Use this information)

I realize this, but keeping the gun loaded isn't "high skill"
It's not like working armor where you need to know armor profiles and penetration, or positioning that comes with experience.

Its literally not pressing a button.

[uneven narwhal]

You did explain it in terms that a noob understands yes
But your advice isn't going anywhere, apart from the ones that see your message
If everything was as easy as posting instructions to playing a tank on a discord, we wouldn't have issues with people not knowing how to counter

Yes, but that's your thought process, as a good player
Every Kran teammate I've ever seen dumps out the mag, and constantly interrupts the reload even when he can afford to let it complete
They aren't thinking of the future where you might potentially get rushed
They see a tank, they try to dump the entire thing out 🤷

[stuck acorn]

kran is just a dumb tank. Make coupolas at least 1.5 times bigger than they are now + nerf armour on this square below the gun.

After that you can buff it's DPM or whatever

[scarlet fjord]

this happens every week ngl
some random person asks for kran and several people need to repeat pretty much 3 essays to get the point across
next week same thing happens 💀
for some reason most average players struggle in the easiest to play tank in the game

[hushed crag]

my balance suggestion:ERASE t100lt from blitz history

[stuck acorn]

just nerf the DPM and armour. It will be fine after that

[unique scaffold]

Armour ok but not the dpm that's destroy the tank

[umbral void]

About the E3 and E5. I suggest you wait for Monday because it's not what it seems.

[stuck acorn]

what's the point of 140 if you can have T 100 going 20 km/h faster while having same gun?

T-100 needs to have at least 300 DPM less to be balanced

[unique scaffold]

Reword its armor too. LT but armor of god

[jade cargo]

VeganVampire#1301 has been warned.

[autumn zodiac]

4202 meta

[neat crescent]

Time to clean the dust off its armor

[young jewel]

Are they buffing m60

[stuck acorn]

let's wait until monday before judging.

[young jewel]

I hope they buff m60

[mental pasture]

Possibly, but if possible I'd bet that they're not changing this policy at all. They must've got a lot of guts to say "Hey, you know that conversation about Smasher a long while ago? I said that we don't nerf collectors, but what if I undo this?"

I've seen WG going back from a decision only once in my whole 4 years of gameplay and it was a complete different context. That's why I wouldn't be so optimistic.

[full token]

They changed their minds when they said they wouldn’t nerf the smasher. They initially introduced collectors as the alternative for premiums, with the difference being that they balance collectors when needed, and the collectors can sell for gold. Then they just avoided nerfing them and eventually just put it into writing that they don’t want to nerf them.

They also did say it wasn’t worth it at the time because, I assume, the negative aspects of nerfing a paid tank are worse to them than just leaving it as it is. Maybe collectors and premiums have started to become more problematic to them than it’s worth leaving?

[mental pasture]

The second paragraph is surely truth. Even tho T22 isn't extremely problematic, it stills a problem. I hope that the "leaks" are partially correct.

[full token]

No source provided for the leaks. Asked earlier and nothing provided. And with how silly some of it is, idk if it’s because WG thought of it or the ‘leaker’ just made it up to mess with people. From WG’s side though, they said they would rebalance the T95E6 atleast, so there’s a little truth to the collector nerfs

[winged barn]

If they are nerfing parts of a tank that hardly matter while buffing things that actually do matter, it's not even a nerf

[twin egret]

Grille nerf lmao.

[neat crescent]

insert skill issue here

[neat leaf]

injustice with the 50 B 😢

[mental pasture]

Ain't we already used to unnecessary buffs/nerfs that none asked for?

[scenic apex]

Half the player base always complains because they hate change

[mental pasture]

I like changes, I just don't like changed things with no reason at all. Why the hell buff T110E3 alpha? Luckily That image is probably fake.

[neat leaf]

Really meaningless this E3 buff, this alpha was supposed to go to 60TP.
Another very absurd change is from 50 B q if they do this to him they are automatically throwing him in the trash.
And another, why mess with Badger?

[prisma jetty]

Most of it was wrong

[full token]

Still something

[solid scaffold]

looking sus for me, 113 and 183 is some next level imagination

[safe rapids]

I’m gonna pop in and say, some of the stuff on there definitely maybe possibly could be true…
I can assure you some of it is fake, not all of it though. The leaker has the right idea but they’re incredibly wrong on the actual statistics which we know nothing about.
But we will see on Monday!

However as the changes are so massive and nearly every tier 10 is being changed, I can say that the meta will be much more diverse and it’s not as bad as you might think. Yes, lots of tanks are getting major buffs and or nerfs but most will find a place in the new meta, and days of restricted metas based around a few popular tanks will be minimized. Tier 9 is really going to suffer as a result however so WG should be rolling out changes to tier 9 tanks in the future.

[scarlet fjord]

why are they nerfing grille while buffing heavies 😂

[full token]

We don’t know if they are. Don’t trust it till there’s some credible source or we see the stats from the open test tomorrow

[stuck acorn]

as i and many people said. Just wait until tommorow and you will know everything

[nocturne mauve]

Bet you 90% heavy buffs and 10% nerfs to other classes

[lunar niche]

Lets hope its not nerfs just to add super consumables/provisions.

[charred heron]

Or soviet med buffs, again

[tranquil ermine]

WZ-113 with 380mm UFP is very believable

[whole spade]

https://pastebin.com/N7rA9LjG Is it possible? I don't understand why wg doesn't change the object 268/4

[uneven narwhal]

They're refrained from changing new tanks; Type 71, 268v4, 50t, etc.

[safe rapids]

Yes that’s the only thing we know totally for sure, and I’m glad they are not touching those tanks.

[dusk dawn]

Will WotB be adding any modern tanks to the game such as the Abraham’s?

[scenic apex]

No

[lunar niche]

If the changes in that list is true then the Leopard is getting shafted again lol.

[zealous osprey]

121b gets reactive armor like titan 54d?

[safe rapids]

We don’t know until tomorrow.

[vivid hamlet]

A tragedy will be revealed to us tomorrow.

[upbeat sphinx]

it should be buffed in 9.1
also 121 b should get reactive armor and improved speed boost, omg it is going to be broken

[zinc mortar]

tog II needs to be bigger tbh

[neat crescent]

That's not even confirmed stuff, just supposed leaks for an unreleased test.apk , while some of them are believable it doesn't mean they're real since their sources aren't even mentioned/trustworthy, the trustworthy ones to date which are often Russian haven't released anything as of this day

[unique scaffold]

this cant be real why nerf 140 turret armor??

[safe rapids]

wait until tomorrow to see

[unique scaffold]

true lets be patient people

yeah lmao 380 on an upper plate that has that angle already

[outer glen]

Did i just see wz112 ufp thickness from 124mm to 380mm 💀

And leo1 getting reti cali doesn't make any sense

[unborn rampart]

VK 90.01 (P) penetration gets buffed from 275 to 290

[safe rapids]

nope
nope
i'm not saying whether these are right or wrong but just don't assume until we get actual stats T O M O R R O W
we can wait can't we

[west matrix]

I can

[pallid nest]

Not sure if the 27hp E100 is too OP, or the 1300dmg HESH hitting the hull and doing 0 dmg too UP...

[lean gate]

I see some weird staff here
Like vickers got nerf view range while others lights got buff view range
😂😂🤦🤦
And 50B on this article.. wg will ruined it perfectly

[thorn trail]

not all the stuff that it's written is true so maybe they will not nerf the grille, we'll see when they will tell us the official changes

[neat crescent]

Well you see, the HESH you're shooting acts like prem hesh, what i mean is instead of regular HE where it splashes and pens dealing damage on x calculation on the lowest armored plate nearby the splash radius, prem HESH acts more like a regular projectile and ONLY tries to pen the spot where it hit (much like PC's HE rn) and if it can't pen well you're done for, say goodbye to any damage for 20s.
Edit: this is why you run both kinds of HESH rounds and not just one of em

[uneven narwhal]

Is that really the case? @neat crescent

[prisma jetty]

HESH and HE work the same

[uneven narwhal]

I did think so lol
HESH is just the name we've given to premium HE shells for the Brits in game

[viscid blade]

hesh is literally he but has higher pen

[prisma jetty]

^

[elfin herald]

I have a bad feeling that theAMX 50B will get ruined 😔

[nocturne mauve]

You realise it is also called that outside of the game

[uneven narwhal]

That's why we call it HESH
In the game, it's no different from HE

I should've phrased my sentence better

[neat crescent]

Feel free to try shooting e100s front plate or side skirts with prem hesh vs regular "hesh", you'll see the difference in a second

[umbral void]

High Explosive Squash (some people will say it's Spall, but it's really Squash) Head is made for a completely different purpose then High Explosive.

HESH has a glob of plastic explosive on the front of the projectile. When the shot hits an enemy vehicle, the plastic explosive spreads out, or squashes, before detonating. It was originally designed to cause spalling (bits of the armor breaking off inside the tank and bouncing around, giving the crew a very bad day). Modern tanks have spall liners, rendering HESH less useful for this purpose, but it can still be used on fortifications.

HE, on the other hand, is just designed to make things blow up, as more of a general-purpose round. It can be used against infantry, light vehicles, and fortifications.

[prisma jetty]

In Game, there is no real HESH shell, it’s just high penetration HE

[full token]

That’s in real life. The game isn’t as complex as that, and afaik they keep it simple and just give hesh the same mechanic as HE, but hesh has higher pen than the average HE round

[umbral void]

Go into ammo of a British tank with high HE pen, press the HE shell with high pen and read the shell info. There is HESH but it's just not properly classified.

[uneven narwhal]

The shells are indeed called HESH, but the in game mechanics are the same as HE

[remote oriole]

ST Maus is not correct

[prisma jetty]

Great, the Badger has HESH! But it's only 60mm of pen.

[mental pasture]

Git gud brah. 50tp DOES NOT need an alpha buff. Go play E100 instead.
Damn, saying "gid gud" once again felt different now

No. Even if it looks otherwise, 60TP isn't meant to be better than E100 in literally every aspect, like in damage. Get your consumables, play E100 or simply play better. One of the three options work even better than buffing a that that doesn't need a buff.

[neat leaf]

60TP no?

[neat crescent]

You're right, i had been inclined to believe that after just 1 round of tests with hesh rounds in a training room, however further testing confirmed that in fact, i was wrong and that was just rng when I tested and in the vid, did the same kind of shots vs e100, 60tp, maus,kran, titan 54d(tanks that have high armor, spaced armor, good effective armor and spaced armor) and other tanks(not Sheri sadly), on non penetrating shots the most damage seen was 575 with both cheap or prem hesh in 183, while the lowest was 80 using fv4202 and highest 180, for 183 it was 170 and 575 highest(513 on a max roll), it'd seem that regardless of where i hit e100s front plate which is very thick in base armor and effective armor it still did 200 at lowest and 350+-475 damage, for maus it however seemed to do much more damage ranging from almost 400 always to 500+ not reaching 600 ever apparently, for 60 to on the turret it always did 200-300 mostly however, the rare occasions it did 400+ were rare and scarce, for kran it still seemed to do 400-500 average even though that things turret is a tomato, and well to finish.

It seemed that extra metal plates like is4 on the front and titan 54d a tier 8 all around, did take less damage(80-119 using fv4202 on t54d, 153-312 is4 vs 183) compared to tanks with spaced armor(e100s side skirts and is7's spaced side) that took almost the same damage with 183(300-500) regardless of there being spaced or not apparently.

What i got is, spaced just seems to detonate he but doesn't reduce potential damage apparently , extra metal plates or armor prevented a potential pen AND reduced the potential damage taken(even taking t54d's 10% D.R into account the damage is minimal vs shooting a t54 proto for instance)

Now feel free to correct me or point mistakes out since I'm not precisely adept at testing stuff

[mental pasture]

Damn, brah oppened up all government's ministry of science and development to reach a conclusion.

[safe rapids]

HESH in name only. Many tanks (even some American ones) have rounds named as HEP or HESH but all function like HE rounds.

[prisma jetty]

Yup

[scarlet fjord]

I'm not an expert but i think in reality HESH functions differently from HE
as in its not just an explosion that penetrates a tank its more like it shreds angled plates and shoots off shrapnel inside the tank or something like that

[stuck acorn]

it does work different

[safe rapids]

In fact, tons of rounds in the game are historically very different from each other and are still named accordingly within the game. APCBC, APDS, HVAP, etc. rounds are all technically in the game except they function like all other AP or APCR shells (it varies) It’s purely just name only. There is no point in having a ton of different shells with only slight differences in their mechanics and as this is an arcade game it really doesn’t matter if you use an AP shell, an APC shell, or an APDS shell because they all penetrate armor the same way and have the same basic functionality.

Yes @scarlet fjord you are right. HESH in real life spreads an explosive paste across a tank which has a time delay before exploding and hopefully damaging the interior. HE simply just has an explosive charge that detonates upon impact.

There is one round in the game I would like to see, and this would be APHE rounds and their derivatives. They’re essentially armor piercing shells with a small bit of explosive charge, so that they can penetrate armor and then explode causing increased damage to the interior of a vehicle. I don’t know how they would function, maybe AP shells that have increased module damage and HP damage while losing some penetration compared to an AP one?

I don’t know, but it would be neat to see.

[snow hound]

so practically hesh with more module damage?

[scarlet fjord]

u basically have this on ISU 130 and SU 100Y
only APHE in real life if it penetrates its a very devastating round in terms of damage
i guess to not make it practically HESH with normalization u could give it broken module damage and slightly more alpha for less penetration in return
but still the concept would be similar to HESH only this would have better pen due to normalization and I assume less alpha difference to balance it?

[wicked quest]

You do know kv2 and su100y have AP and premium AP right quite literally what that is

[safe rapids]

No, not HESH. Think of an in-between ammunition type between AP and HE.
@scarlet fjord yea kinda. It doesn’t do as much alpha as an HE shell cause it doesn’t have as much explosive filler inside it, if a 75mm gun had an AP/APHE/HE load out it would be like 160/185/200 damage, but the pen (for an average tier 5) would be like 110/95/38.
APHE isn’t too common after World War II so HESH would still reign supreme as it is a postwar ammo type.
APHE would normalize against armor like AP would, and it wouldn’t splash like HE as it explodes when inside the tank. If it bounces or ricochets the explosive won’t go off.
However it still has good damage and increased module damage like an HE shell.
If a 90 mm gun had an APHE round (let’s use the 90mm M3 as an example) it would be 160/135/45 pen or so and 225/250/270 alpha.
I’d think that if tanks use it you could either choose from 3 out of 4 ammo types and create a custom loadout meaning APCR/APHE/HE loadouts could work, or alternatively make it so you can only switch out prammo between APHE and APCR or similar.

@wicked quest KV-2 doesn’t, it’s got 640/545/960 alpha. The SU does have kinda what I’ve got in mind tho.

[real bison]

don’t give them more ideas

first tungsten shells, then APHE shells

newest mechanic lol

[safe rapids]

WG could make something like that broken but hey
It’s just an idea

[candid rose]

I have a bad feeling to tell you that this might be true. I just hope wg wont touch my beloved t62a otherwise i’ll be mad

[safe rapids]

Every tier 10 except Chieftain, Type 71, Kampfpanzer 50 t, and Object 268 v4 will be changed.
I can’t say anything exact but the T-62A will still be a fine tank. If you like the T-44 you’ll like the new 62A.

[nimble zodiac]

Well of course if you like such an underwhelming tank, then T-62A will be enjoyable 🤨

[safe rapids]

T-44 is fantastic IMHO.

[nimble zodiac]

Very bold statement.

[winged barn]

The only thing that its actually missing is pen, which can easily be worked around

[safe rapids]

My opinion
Deal with my opinion

@winged barn exactly. It’s such a good tank. Mobile, a bit of armor, even some gun depression. The gun itself isn’t great but can be worked around. It could do with a pen buff of 5-10 mm and a prammo pen buff to like 245-250 but it’s very good among tech tree meds.
Premiums of course you’ll suffer a bit, but play it right and you’ll do fine. I loved it, but that’s just my experience.

Be aware you’re also talking to someone who practically worships the Pershing, so expect me to have weird opinions 😄

By the way, the 122 mm sucks, but is just stupidly fun in platoons. This goes to show stats and performance get you nowhere if you are having fun, which is why we play games in the first place! I don’t care who says what about a tank, if it’s “bad” or “good” I don’t care. As long as I’m performing well and having fun in it, then I’m happy where I am.

[teal token]

no need to buff kran, just give it 12° dep 😁

[nimble zodiac]

No need to buff Leopard 1, just give it 2350 more DPM 🗿

[safe rapids]

No need to buff the 60TP, just give it 850 alpha 🗿

[timid shale]

No need to buff is7 just give it 370 heat

[south quail]

no need to buff anything,just move ms-1 to t10 and give it armour as thick as is4 turret all around

[scarlet fjord]

Eeeh I like the playstyle it's trying to take but it sadly can't do it
It's kind of embarrassing how T-34-1 is a tier 7 and yet significantly superior
Kinda op due to its size for side hugging hull down and op camo with great alpha and not so bad DPM

[safe rapids]

The T-34-1 is magnificent
I love that tank a lot
Frankly I liked the Leo a bit more but still, I think the T-34-1 is very solid
Then the T-34/100 just exists lol
No point to it except the heat rounds lol

[torn wadi]

Bruh 50bs aiming and turret armor is bad enough why worsen it💀

[full token]

Turret armor is pretty troll, and they don’t need to focus on weakening the strengths all the time. That can make a tank more stale than nerfing a weakness

[neat leaf]

In the original WOT game the 60TP and E100 have the same alpha 640, while in WotBlitz the 60TP only has 600 alpha

[hybrid eagle]

What are y'all thoughts on the T-54 First prot

[leaden flare]

For a matter of fact you're wrong they have the same in wot but not 640 at least get Ur facts right if you're already making stupid suggestions

60tp is nowhere in need of a buff anyway

@uneven narwhal not like Blitz is that much better 😂

[uneven narwhal]

The original WoT game is also complete garbage at balancing tanks

@leaden flare Not by a large amount, but we're certainly better at balancing

[south quail]

not a worth tank to buy,the weaknesses overthrown it's strength

[neat leaf]

Correction : 60TP and E100 in the original game has 750 alpha
So it would be fair for Blitz's 60TP to have the same alpha damage of 640 equal to E100.

[twin egret]

so uh, what are the list of changes of some of the tanks for the next update then?

[lone sandal]

guys consider this
stop giving heavy tanks good mobility and really thick armour

[high dawn]

Is the T22 getting a nerf?

[next quail]

Nah, they need to sell it. Even if its a nerf it wont be a major one

[leaden flare]

No it wouldn't be fair as 60tp has consumables etc that make it already similar or even superior

[high dawn]

fr

[torn wave]

The front armour on t22 got buffed

[mental pasture]

But that's where you get also wrong. Wot and Wotb are totally different games.
Ya want to apply one rule from Wot? Cool, let's apply others too. Buff E100 turret, so it's not a weakpoint anymore. Add artillery to end the heavy meta. Change the japanese heavies to the actual japanese heavies.

Listen up bro, it's due to people who asks for unnecessary buffs (like what you do) that there's so much unbalanced tanks due to overbuffing.
Some 150mm cannons have lower damage, deal with it.

[boreal cobalt]

I think the is8 needs an armor buff, atleast the turret.....198mm gets easily penetrated by tier 8 heavies and even some meds with regular ap.

[hushed crag]

is anything happened yet?does tier 10 changed into a disaster yet?

[full token]

That’s just one aspect of the tank. Do you think the rest is bad enough? It’s normal that tanks have a weakness. Some lack pen, some lack mobility, some lack armor

[mental pasture]

Some lack of all these things and even lack of turret

[boreal cobalt]

Yeah the gun handling on the tank is good, mobility is good and the pen for the is8 is standard but imagine being a top tier heavy and getting your turret pen'd by a tier 8 heavy with less penetration than your own gun and it's just standard ap, no HEAT/APCR.....and then the wz110 has the same turret but is untouched. They should atleast bump the turret armor from 198 to atleast 230mm

[distant river]

"The tank is good, but it has a downside so therefore needs big buff to be op because I played it wrong"?

[stuck acorn]

The guy literally wants to make it another 50TP proto 💀

[full token]

That isn’t going to get it buffed. Heavies do tend to have better armor but it’s not a necessity when they can get something else to compensate for the lack of armor. You already see that the is8 lacks armor but has mobility, gun handling and penetration. Buffing a tank isn’t about making every tank have a certain strength, like giving every heavy enough armor. It’s just about making a tank perform better in some way that can keep it unique. What would be unique to the is8 if they give it armor, find out it’s too good with armor, mobility and the gun combined, and then nerf something other than armor to balance it? It no longer has that characteristic of being a mobile heavy with a lack of armor. It just becomes the same as an other heavy with a good gun, good armor and maybe a lack of mobility due to the nerf. Just gets boring

[real bison]

ooh yes buff a tier 9 with one of the best tank guns at tier 9 because some tier 8s can pen it boohoo

[full token]

Hope the 140 gets some buff. Been left alone for a while, and now it can look better and hopefully perform better. I like the playstyle it has, and it’s one of my first few tier 10 mediums so I hope it can be somewhat back to what it used to be long ago

[stuck acorn]

well 140 is not bad even now. It's just T100 that is better in every possible way and make 140 kinda pointless

[deep temple]

Day 20 of asking for 30b Buff on gun handling or dpm

[tiny plank]

E3 buff when

[stuck acorn]

get good

@uneven narwhal well said

@real bison 183 tungsten shells

[uneven narwhal]

inb4 this channel becomes a dumpster fire

[real bison]

leopard 1 retcal 💀
leopard 1 improved gunpowder 💀

at least they did something to the stock gun for the F155

@stuck acorn fr 🤡

[full token]

All the consumable buffs 🤮
Just give them normal buffs…

[nocturne mauve]

Those consumables don’t even have a place in normal matches anyway

[stuck acorn]

well said

[deep shadow]

Consumables buffs and making premium and collector tanks better. 😦

[lunar niche]

Wait, so Leopard is getting super consumables? Lmao

[hasty reef]

Soo the fv215b heavy is getting an extra 50mm of he pen, -1 sec of reload time and +150 hp. Also taking of 19 mm of armor off of the top plate of the turret, around the cupola i think. I think this will be good for the tank. What do you guys think?

[real bison]

dont need em

seriously just change pen to 270/320

so it can actually do things instead of being a worse 62A or E50M performance wise

[distant river]

Leo is currently very different to either of those tanks...

[stuck acorn]

where do you get this info from?

[deep shadow]

I know right. Wargaming why!!! So many changes that we disagree with. I'm going to write another essay now. Making tech tree tanks not fun. Making NEW premiums and collectors outright better. 😦

[full token]

They’re live-streaming #game-news

[lunar niche]

Whats Leopard gonna do with reticle and gunpowder? lmao

Just buff the alpha and pen if they want to make it a sniping med.

By how much though? Haven't watched the stream.

[orchid grove]

They did buff the alpha and pen tho?

[opaque pumice]

Leopard will gain some additional dpm and improved gun power will properly bring the shell speed of the ap shell to apcr speed and ap also technically have higher pen then apcr because of shell normalization

[limber nymph]

some of those changes just feel like they did them so they could call it a 'rebalance' and not a nerf

[winged barn]

That's cool and all, but where can I get a list that shows changes

I'm stoopid

[uneven narwhal]

#devs-answers
lmao

[leaden flare]

the obj 140 changes seem wierd to me
its getting mobility and spotting capabilities but its pretty much turning into a light with pretty bad gd while 62a gets once again all benefits
more speed and more pen and more ammo

i mean yes they arent direct competitors anymore but still the winner of that rebalance looks like 62a again @orchid grove

[full token]

True. They’ve not really understood that these can still be nerfs or buffs. But when they’ve changed everything up it’s not easy to consider something a nerf or buff either, unless we believe their assumption that everything is just a rebalance, then look at individual tanks and see that some did get an overall buff/nerf rather than a rebalance. And we can compare with tier 9 to see if they gave a tank an overall buff/nerf

[orchid grove]

IMO that makes sense to me, because otherwise it’ll be perpetually competing with T-62 for the same niche.

[viral island]

bro i really wanted to see the 140 and m48 patton get a chance at the meta again but they barely touched the m48 and overall nerfed the 140s armor

[iron vigil]

huge nerf to tier 10 premiums or collectors while most of researchables got buff. well done wg, never p2w u make it

[unique scaffold]

Hello, why I can't log in to Open Test?

[night apex]

Well I do, and its going to be rough.

[neon olive]

The reason why T57 Heavy and M-VI-Yoh get a consumable to boost their intraclip reload escapes me. I don't even know how low the Yoh's intraclip is gonna get with this, it will basically be a Helsing

[real bison]

about 1.3s intra with the 120 iirc

[pseudo bobcat]

All of these changes seems like they wanted us to spam special consumables or provisions hmm

[winged barn]

But now it's with the t100 and 907
Just traded 1 competitor for 2

[south quail]

some of them changed the overall playstyle,and some of them just useless changes

like e4 doesn't need any changes on the gun, it's big problem is the hatch

[tranquil sphinx]

T22 changes feels borderline nerfs, isnt this about giving plus to as well? I mean the other collectors got buffs as well even the more broken ones

[uneven narwhal]

Yoh
1.75 with the 105mm
1.19 with the 120mm

T57
1.75s

[orchid grove]

E4 absolutely needed gun buffs. It’s not a heavy. It’s not meant to be a hulldown tank. The turret traverse gun handling nerf though was a step backwards though

[full token]

@pseudo bobcat Atleast they seem to have given it to more tanks rather than it being for the few tanks. That was an issue for me as they didn’t give every tank the consumables like they first said they would. So some tanks got big temporary speed buffs and others got nothing. Now it’s more even, though now these tanks have to depend on the consumables to get their full potential.

@tranquil sphinx well isn’t that acceptable? Ignoring their intention to rebalance, if they’ve nerfed it they’ve listened to the requests too late, but in the future they can point at this and say they ‘nerfed’ it, to justify nerfing other collectors/premiums when it’s needed

[fossil spruce]

tvp will be crazy with 1.5 intra

[merry pelican]

fv4202 will be so crazy 😃

[night apex]

The yoh is getting a interclip, accuracy, and shell speed buff, so the tank will be able to output 900 damage with almost perfect accuracy in under 1 second in some scenarios.... Sheeeesh
And nevermind the HP nerf, that tanks all about the gun anyway.

Oops didnt mean to reply to you, sorry!

[sour kettle]

Hull, not turret top.
IMHO - tank should be faster both forward and backwards, leave pen, give some DPM, some hull armor.
They didn't do much to help tank become relevant again :(

[prisma jetty]

It’s 19mm off the upper plate of the hull

[hasty reef]

The upper plate is bad enough why take what it still has left

[stuck acorn]

why would they give a spall liner to a BC tho 💀

Spall liner is the most toxic super consumable for me. It basically removes the biggest disadvantage of paper tanks

[uneven narwhal]

Honestly surprised Maus didn't get reactive at this point

[coarse ether]

We play on main acc on test server but does it mean that the stats will move ?

[lunar niche]

So, the leak was true lmao.

Leopard gets 10hp more alpha while losing 50hp lol. At this point wg is just buffing it for the sake of having the most dpm among meds lol.

[pseudo bobcat]

Are the Yoh gonna get a DPM nerf on that broken 105mm or are they just flat out buffing it by giving it clip boost??

[robust plaza]

leo 1 new td lets gooo

[fossil spruce]

huge buff for badger dem

[void mulch]

SAVE AMX 30B AND WZ-111 5A

[turbid ice]

STB getting 1 degree of depression 👍

[winged barn]

What?
The e4 is pretty much a heavy

It's an e5 with a big boy gun slapped on
Heavyifing it allows it to use its gun more.

And tds are trash.
So don't TDify it when it's so close to greatness

Also

WHY ARE HEAVIES GETTING BUFFS AGAIN

[lilac frigate]

I think the E4 got worse, the turret gave it so much flexibility at the frontline but they heavily nerfed it by 6 degrees

[robust plaza]

too haxxor

[hollow elk]

Someone mentioned about studying the weaknesses of tanks. Where can I find the info for that?

[clear bone]

wotinspector

[hexed island]

Give the E5 it's 8.0 second reload back from 2018.

[full token]

Isn’t that why they develop the game? Everything is for money. Sometimes keeping everyone happy also makes money

[grave phoenix]

Jag Pz E100 still getting buffed and grille still getting nerfed

[lone sandal]

ok seriously what is the rationale behind making the leopard more vulnerable while giving it no practical buffs 😹

[hollow elk]

Thank you bud

[outer glen]

Ok 4202 will be armored like cent ax with 60km max speed and good mobility

[remote oriole]

I love these balance changes

Wargaming balancing department is really trying hard to push me into a love hate relationship with them

[full token]

They haven’t been losing money. They’re definitely profiting. They did the aiming system change after they believed it was positively received by their test sample, and they might be going forward with these changes because they haven’t had enough negative feedback. If they do undo it itd be because there’s enough negative feedback that they’ll know it’ll hurt the game and maybe profits. Just because you or I approve or disapprove doesn’t mean they’re going to make a loss or benefit. They do look at the entire playerbase, and this discord server, while it has a lot of the active players, doesn’t have all of the playerbase. I hope they can undo a few of the changes or alter them but I don’t mind the idea they had for the update

[atomic niche]

I am just curious, but why will AP replace APCR in meds?

[sleek vault]

So when is 9.1? Since Asia can't enjoy open test (and they reluctantly expanding it) and I want try this rebalance already.

[remote oriole]

Extra normalisation to deal with angled armour better

Aaaaaand as WG announced there is no update date anymore, as the game client will patch itself

[little coral]

So, the only "balance changes" I don't agree with are: 1) on the AMX 50 B (the magazine reload time is too long now and the 4th shell changes the whole tank), 2) on the Fv215b 183 (I personally can't call that a "balance" change, more likely a nerf, but again that's my own opinion), 3) on the 60tp (the speed decrease), and 4) the t100 lt, (the decreased by 0.77 sec reload time wasn't needed, the tank already has a good gun). Yep. That was it. I honestly don't know why am I writing all this sh*t, because I know that most people here just don't give a f@ck about my opinion so yeah-

[uneven narwhal]

reload time is increased on the 100, not decreased

[remote oriole]

I care about your opinion

[tropic sapphire]

can someone please send to me pictures of balance changes in 9.1 update ?

[void mulch]

@tropic sapphire see #devs-answers
You will find them

[scarlet fjord]

WG i am seriously angry that ur reducing IS-7 top speed

[full token]

The FV215B can hesh the front of a 50b now…

[hardy verge]

I feel that the maus should get its old HP pool back, esp considering the fact that 4-clippers exist now

[worn sierra]

Thanks for the 215b, E5, FV4202, WZ-113, and AMX 30b buffs. Took long enough

[full token]

It’s funny since they didn’t intend to buff them, just rebalance. The fv215b definitely got a buff, and I don’t mind. The only significant nerf in its ‘rebalance’ is an armor nerf, when it was already not very useful armor

[hushed crag]

he penetration increase 50 not 5 for fv215b?standard hesh moment💀

[stuck acorn]

we already had that on FV4202 few years ago and it didn't work out well

Basically 4202 was completly cracked because of that and was nerfed 1 update later

@full token i know. But 190 is more than enough to pen even some heavies frontally. It was better back then, but it doesn't make it less controvertial this time.

[full token]

That was probably worse. It had the full 210mm or whatever hesh was back then. And the regular heat. This is lesser hesh pen at 190mm

[deep shadow]

AMX 50B and FV4005: Give the new gun changes as new guns. Therefore, players will have the option to switch between the 4 clip and current original 3 clip. Problem solved for the 50B and FV4005. No nerfs to 50B.

[frail silo]

how'd they make leo more vulnerable
@willow briar giving tanks a better shell type

[willow briar]

what is it with all of these APCR to AP

[safe rapids]

@late lodge maybe you can answer this question but in the OT, the E100 and VK72 both now have 600 alpha. This was never stated in the official news so is this a bug? If you give them both 600 and this isn’t a bug you’re taking away aspects of what make the E100 and 60TP unique…isn’t the whole point of this update to increase tier 10 diversity?

[willow briar]

they are simplifying a supposedly special feature of high tier tanks, not to mention that AP is not necessarily better than APCR/APDS
AP has better normalization angles but pen power decreases way more after range than APCR (a main selling point of APCR is its little loss of pen long range, and not to mention the higher shell velocity, which is vital for these T10 meds)
@indigo knot I remember APCR/APDS has less pen loss. But yea, maybe in blitz the maps are small. Just weird to see they make this seemingly unnecessary change since these tanks did primarily use these APCR rather than AP on those lower tier tanks

[broken breach]

And like they did not properly buff prog atleast increase accuracy and decrease reload

[indigo knot]

Isn't that the otherway around AP has less shell vel than APCR but less pen loss too
And in Blitz pen loss doesn't matter much but AP normalisation matters more and shell velocity

[west matrix]

So the STD-1 and Ho-Ri were mostly untouched. Sounds like an update I can work with

[burnt venture]

"We are not nerfing any of the tanks, these are balance changes"

• Literally nerfs straight up base accuracy on a good 75% of the tanks

You do understand that no matter how you buff the tanks the base accuracy will make them a pain to play right???

Some of these changes are good. But most of them are complete nonsense. ESPECIALLY the 907 / 140 / 62A change. Actually delirious to give 907 the 62A accuracy and super consumables with the current mobility, then nerf 140 armor and make that like a worse 907. So the premium version will have slightly less DPM, but better everything else? What a joke.

Also, nice T-100LT armor "nerf", it still doesn't get overmatched by any guns and still autobounces everything

[wicked quest]

Complete opposite away around have you been playing the whole game believing this? The specific flaw apcr has compared to apcr is that while it travels much faster than AP it loses energy at range faster due to forces AP does not suffer this and the only downside AP has is that it’s not as fast as APCR

[willow briar]

hmmm, maybe i got that pen loss wrong
but yea like i was saying, APCR being the primary shell for these tanks were not implemented because they felt like it, it was how they were irl
just weird to see they make this seemingly unnecessary change since these tanks did primarily use these APCR rather than AP on those lower tier tanks

[full token]

Not really. Shell velocity just was higher on apcr rounds because that was what was given by the dev team for balance reasons. Maybe to compensate for the pen loss. Some ap rounds have the same shell velocity as apcr rounds iirc, and it’s down to balance. I don’t think the shell velocity would change if the rounds changed from apcr to ap unless the devs decide to balance that as well. Blitzhangar should show if any shell velocities are changed

The Obj140 with AP has the same shell velocity as the T62A with apcr in 9.0. They used to both have apcr

[scarlet fjord]

they're reducing alpha on big guns for some reason rather consistently
Grille definitely didnt need that in particular

[teal root]

why tf is the ho ri getting a faster hull traverse??? the damn thing already spins around like a fkin beyblade

[night apex]

The 121b is getting buffed, I wonder if it will be meta in pubs

[sly wing]

Why the heck are they buffing concept 1b…
All these “balances” make no sense

@night apex FV215b is getting nerfed

@prisma jetty it’s the UPPER plate by 15 mm…not a change that will balance it at all

[prisma jetty]

They’re also nerfing it’s armor! It’s called rebalancing.

[frail silo]

it is not like that makes a difference, the selling point is the turret. so yeah.
also FV215B is not being nerfed, stop reading one word and glossing over everything else.
it is getting 170mm base HE pen and its dpm back
and it is a hulldown tank so hulldown in it
@winter heron #devs-answers

[winter heron]

Is there a place where we can just read through the 9.1 changes without having to sit through a stream? Blitz hangar doesn't have it. Where is everyone else getting their information?

[burnt venture]

https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldOfTanksBlitz/comments/vgrfa1/complete_91_changes_to_tier_x_tanks_plus_my/

[twin egret]

FV215b wthh

[orchid grove]

#devs-answers

[neat crescent]

*cough, 140 always had AP as the regular ammo

[proud panther]

Small question, right now on the test server some tanks have different alpha than on the 9.0 update, while they weren't stated in #devs-answers, for example the E100 and the VK72 both have 600 average damage, the Badger has 410 average damage and the T110E4 has 680 averge damage. Are they an oversight or are they also planned?

[rough parrot]

lol they deleted my msg lmao

[orchid grove]

Ackchyually 140 used to have APCRs, just like the other tier 10 meds. It was changed to APs relatively recently

[neat crescent]

Really? When was that, 4 years ago? Ever since i got it which was 2 years ago i think it already had AP, which isn't too "recently"

[safe rapids]

For the E4 and Badger, it’s because they share the same gun as the E3 and 4005, respectively.
For the E100, VK (this also affects the Waffle and Borsig) I have no idea why.

[full token]

Feb 2018
Not recent but it’s still an example of shell velocity not being entirely linked to the type of round unless balance

[nocturne mauve]

Just what we needed, heavy buffs again

[proud panther]

i guessed it, that is why i asked about the possibility of it just being an oversight

[fallow eagle]

I feel like the Chinese tanks are gonna be the real chads after the update
113 seems to get finally the traverse buff(the dispersion tho may make the tank unplayable lol)
5a gets dpm buff along with accuracy
121 and 121b getting outright buffs and consumables
113gft getting ridiculous armor buff

[neat crescent]

Guess so. forgot to disable ping

[silk folio]

The E6 is going to be a monster next update. Armor was never its thing, but an +8 kph buff and shaving a second off the reload? I feel like it's evolving from a heavium into a full blooded, high dpm medium that has stupid hitpoints and troll armor. And the thing is, it has the power to weight to make that top speed mean something. Might be hilarious for ramming as well lol

[safe rapids]

~~Awesome look at the changes, loved reading it!
A few corrections based on statistics I found in the actual test server:
E4 also gets 680 alpha, as it’s got the same gun as an E3
The Grille isn’t the only German 15 cm gun getting a damage nerf (to 600/510/900. The Waffle, Borsig, E100, and the VK72 all got the same alpha nerf sadly.
Badger got the same alpha nerf as the FV4005, again cause it has the same gun as the FV.
The E4 will be much scarier now that it’s alpha is going up along with the reload nerf. In turn, while the nerfs for the Borsig and Waffle balance out their strengths, they should just have gotten super consumables removed instead to be balanced. Meanwhile the VK and E100 which had the alpha advantage over a 60TP will now just become worse 60TP clones…it seems WG is trying to go for armor on the E100 instead of the peek a boom massive gun…isn’t that what the Maus is?
Badger will still be average.

Overall some nice buffs, some completely unjustified nerfs, and I agree that these blanket accuracy nerfs just to balance out strengths is a bad idea.~~
EDIT: appears to be a bug

[nocturne mauve]

https://ibb.co/Csh01Kt

[hearty steeple]

Or you can just look at #devs-answers

[halcyon glade]

I hate all the accuracy nerfs. What is the point of nerfing accuracy for so many tanks?

[mental pasture]

My comment didn't age well.

[safe rapids]

Or maybe it did…it’s most likely a bug that the E4 and E3 both have 680. We will wait and see until the update releases

[hybrid eagle]

Bruh Grille 15 lowered Alpha and Max speed

But at least they gave more Penn

Also E100 turret buff ah finally some action in the E100 I think I'll be fine this update

Cus E50m and Leo 1 stats are changed imma spam more E100

Tho I think E100 Longer reload Nerf is unnecessary it takes ages to reload the thing already

[full token]

Good reload nerf. It shouldn’t get the armor buff without losing something like reload time.

[lunar niche]

Not for IS 4 lol

[unique scaffold]

Hello WG, Why on earth are you nerfing Grille alpha, resulting in a much lower dpm?
Also, why is 30b, the most useless tier X medium tank, getting only an irrelevant 0.19 seconds reload buff?
and why is e100 being turned into an useless crap?
@safe rapids pen was never an issue with grille, traverse buff is ok, but its main thing is being a dpm machine rewarding players with good aim that take advantage with nice positions, 200 dpm nerf is lot, and for a laser accurate gun 280 pen is enough for basically anything

[safe rapids]

E100 is getting better traverse and turret armor, only losing a bit off its reload. The alpha damage nerf was a big. It’s still gonna be a good tank. As for the Grille, remember it will traverse better and have better penetration so it’ll still be about the same in power level. 3400 DPM is still solid (this is fully kitted out double food and rammer), so it’s gonna still be around the level of a HoRi which already has good DPM.
@elfin herald I’d suggest play it in 9.1 first before selling it, you might like it.

[elfin herald]

Well it looks like it's time to sell my grille🥲

[unique scaffold]

I like how Alexandra in #devs-answers spoke about all those nice things and positive changes putting a "✅" mark on every sentence, the issue is that not all the things being said are actually being done with those changes
Many unique tanks are being the Shadow of themselves, cloning a better/worse existing tank or losing their main thing
many rebalances don't make sense and i dont suggest changing so many tanks in a single update, or at least, not by this Huge margin
it looks like Devs dont exactly know what REALLY is a tank's role and style and with many changes they re putting emphasis on the WRONG aspects?

[balmy hamlet]

if class == medium or class == td:
   accuracy = accuracy - armour_quality

if class == heavy and speed >= 50 and armour == good:
   speed = speed - 5

if class == td and speed >= 50 and gun == normal:
   speed = speed - 5

I was against the entire class rebalancing from the first time I saw it. Balancing through a spreadsheet sounds... disgusting. Still, being able to generate some of the same changes across the tier with 3 conditions is, remarkably, disappointing.

[tough talon]

I think fv215b is op too much since is has already dpm, speed booster and 170pen HE.
I know fv has been long time shit tank. But it's not the reason why to make it too strong. It has 2nd best dpm on heavy, only less than 113. speed booster can make it chasing lt or mt. reactive armor helps it to hold the line and keep surviving for long time which it shouldn't be. Idk which role does wg gives to 215b but seems like 215b can do anything. With great dpm, high HP(evenmore with reactive armor consumable), nice mobility (with speed booster). It will smash the game again like 2019
Specially nightmare for lights and mediums. Imagine a fv chasing you with 170pen HE and using speed boosterrofl thinking
It doesnt matter this time it has less hull armor boz using reactive armor can keep it surviving for long time. Also consider it has 2600hp(using large sandbag and +hp in equipment). Every second it lives can deal amount of dmg. A damage dealer like fv215b shouldn't has such ability to survive too long.
imagine give 113 reactive armor as consumable? It will smash the game too. Boz it can take shoot and survive meanwhile dealing a lot of dmg.
Furthermore I don't agree with speed booster. I don't think it's good to give heavy such a ability to boost mobility. I will make lights and mediums very difficult.
A Fv215 using speed booster, in 15/19 second, it has same mobility as medium. It's ridiculous. Specially fv has same dpm and bigger gun.

[lone sandal]

they dropped its hp for 10 more alpha
it's more than 50 in practice with the hp increase equipment

[nocturne mauve]

And why are heavies getting buffed? Worst change I’ve ever seen since 6.9 😂

[frail silo]

50hp yeah

[spring hull]

How is the CS tank?

[jade cargo]

ᖴEᗩᖇᒪESS#2079 has been warned.

[turbid ice]

I was literally grinding for the E100 🗿

[bleak shuttle]

Is it true that the alpha will be taken away from the e100 in the next update?

[viscid blade]

? No gun just gets reload and dispersion nerf

[frail silo]

great because it is better now

[safe rapids]

No, it's a bug.

[twin egret]

have you ever played it?
the thing has no hull armor now, it can't really charge and yolo in tbh

[slender frost]

why isnt the 268v4 being nerfed.

[empty scroll]

Does anyone here think the m6a2e1 needs a buff desperately

[stuck acorn]

it's "too new" WG didn't touch tanks that were released less than 4 months ago

@empty scroll whole T7 desperately needs rebalance. WG said they will rework other tiers soon so T7 will also probably get some massive changes

[plain dew]

also the 268v4 it's balanced out partially by it's horrible accuracy and concealment

[turbid ice]

God yes it absolutely need. It's my least favourite tier to grind

[unique scaffold]

@tough talon man sorry but, i strongly disagree.
fv215b will be "too much op" ? 170 pen he is less incredible than what it looks
fv215b is a huge target tank, with paper armor except a REAR turret, average gun depression, and just 34km top speed, all you can do is shoot medium sides (just like before) and some heavium lower plates.. it has 2nd best dpm yeah, speed booster, that cab make it chase mt or lt?? what mt or lt are u Talking about? the Raumpanzer?? that's the only mt 215b boost can chase, and with struggle, since the nerfed speed boost barely makes 215b reach 38km
215b seems to you as if can do everything, but in reality it literally cant do anything, everytime you try to do anything you will be punished by the awkward armor profile, you re the only one thinkint fv215b will be too good.
It won't smash the game At all. 2019 was a completely different time, fv215b had same stats as of now (except for the HE) but it had: Better hull, stronger super turbo, was the only tank having special consumables, was the only tank having insane HP because it was prior the heavies HP buff, the only other meta cw heavy was IS-4.
a nightmare for lights and mediums yeah, imagine a 38km/h (only for 15 seconds) huge paper tank chasing your 55-60km medium tank, what a nightmare! it doesn't matter it has less armor right? afterall, speed boost consumable and reactive armor last for the entire game, and 215b surely isnt a tank that gets Tracked with every shoot, and of course the dpm is still too much even considering you dont have adrenaline and you lack a crew provision for using 2 sandbags, and also lack the engine power provision, making it even slower without turbo active

[visual lance]

5.5 update is bad but 9.1 update is worse

[unique scaffold]

anytime you peek with 215b you'll get punished by the trash armor, except the perfect hulldown spot for it, and u're saying a brief reactive armour and the RIGHT amount of hp for a so slow and thin tank, will make it survive too long?? man, name me a single shot heavy that has no more than 34 km top speed, and a no stronger hull than 215b.
Exactly, NO ONE, u cant compare 215b to other tanks, 215b is as slow as a super heavy, but has trash hull, it needs the HP to survive.
"imagine give 113 reactive as consumable" how can u even compare those two?? 113 will have an insanely thick upper plate and good armour in general, go as fast as 45km and still has better dpm, they re so much different.
have you ever used fv215b after the speed booster nerf? same mobility as a medium for 15 seconds? name me a medium with 38km top speed

[harsh canyon]

Yes, this game is getting worse and it will be like that, they won't even give a buff for the kranvagn for reloading (1. -0.75 2. -1.20 3.-1.20) + speed (35km/h) and don't look at the kids tearing their mouths to have a nerf for this type of tank... This tank used to be fun to play before entry, but then the nerf started 1. Reloading 2. Hull and turret traverse time 3. Now nerf turret traverse time
This tank has changed dramatically and is simply unusable by listening to kids and nerfs... As the saying goes, children spoil everything from A to X

[neat crescent]

STA 1 before the speed buff

[elfin brook]

why:((

[solar tundra]

Ok but M-6-Yoh consumables and provision wut :0

[knotty surge]

Opinions on this rework of the amx 30B?

• keep the reduced mobility (although I still feel the tank should have that top speed)
• increase average alpha to 375
• increase reload time back to a range between 6.8-6.9 seconds
  (results in a dpm of around 6.8 = 3540
  6.85 = 3515
  6.9 = 3489)
  keeps it "different" from leopard one while still having less dpm in compensation for its gun mantlet armor.

[full token]

That’s actually better than the leopard 1. More alpha and it needs a target less often, for some 200dpm less? It’s better
Effective dpm is a thing and higher alpha gets higher effective dpm because every second without a target is less dpm lost if you have higher alpha instead of lower alpha. You can outtrade you can take more time finding shots

[unique scaffold]

No, imo just give 30b a standard 3300 dpm which is 6.36 reload for 350 alpha
because 3120 dpm (the 0.19 ridiculous reload buff) in a world where the 2nd worst single shot dpm medium has 150 dpm more than you, -11 gun depression and insane turret armour, all the rest are 3400 dpm or above, and you sitting with 3130 with some speed, some troll turret, gun dep and nothing more is kinda GARBAGE
Vickers is gonna have a stronger turret than 30b while having better speed, better camo, way more dpm, smaller profile... stupid balance

[pseudo bobcat]

Did they just massacred by poor boi 140??? Why ;-; now it's absolute paper like what's the point of the Soviet MT?? It's used to be an all rounded MT. It can brawl and it has DPM while maintaining low gun depression to keep it balanced. It's armor is only good if people actually know how to angle or wiggle

[uneven narwhal]

Casually ignores all the massive buffs it gets

[stuck acorn]

still tho. Why did they give T62A 55 km/h top speed? it basically makes it go nearly as fast as 140 while not getting massive armour nerf.

At the same time 62 also has more gun depression

[pseudo bobcat]

62A prob gonna replace 140 current roles and the 140 would become a fast scout MT with sometimes troll armor

[uneven narwhal]

62A gets it's gun nuked

• 0.048 added to dispersion
• 0.9s more aim time
• 0.03 more to dispersion on turret traverse

140 still retains its amazing gun

[unique scaffold]

True but i really liked 140 armour profile, there is literally no other tank in the game that can do what 140 does now .. Talkin about making every tank "unique" -_-

[stuck acorn]

you are wrong. T62 A gets a massive gun nerf, that is true, but remember that in current state T62A has way better gun than object 140. this nerf will just make it have about same gun accuracy and little bit worse gun handling than 140. It will also still have more gold pen

Edit: i checked the stats and it will have exactly same accuracy as object 140

I don't think there will be any reason to play 140 after the update

[unique scaffold]

t62a now: a good versatile medium
140 now: a unique flanker/brawler
907 now: a really fast flanker/hulldown medium
t62a in 9.1: a better versatile medium
907 in 9.1: a better, fast flanker/hulldown mediun
140 in 9.1: a worse 907 that can't hulldown

see where the issue with 140? others get buffed and do their thing better, 140 gets buffed but its thing is removed, no point of existing anymore, no armor = no 140

↓↓↓↓ that, obj140 can be played very aggressively thx to his hull armor, easy baits. the speed buff is nothing compared to how fast it can move on the battlefield thx to the armor, i d rather have 140 now than the 9.1 version, its already fast enough, whats the point of having speed if you need to wait your team to do things? ↓↓↓↓

@uneven narwhal we re not talking about paper stats, its useless
140 is losing its signature armor, unique and a must for its playstyle, its still gonna be a good tank, but will be a bland kind of good, the shadow of a obj907, instead of being THE obj 140, just a pointless rebalance.

[pseudo bobcat]

Imo 140 is a tank that can make fast sweeping plays. It can plays aggressively using its armor that's why it can brawl. Without its armor now you can't play aggressive and must wait for things to settle down before making plays. Where as currently it can instigate a push early when the battle can still be won.

The Soviet MT don't need a fast scout capabilities cuz we have T100 for that. The 140 signature dish is its versatility to make plays other MT might not be able to push through

[uneven narwhal]

140 has a better gun
The 62A will have the same dispersion and aim time as the 140 while having worse dispersion factors:
0.1/0.1/0.08 on the 62A compared to the 0.08/0.08/0.05 on the 140
Keep in mind that this is without any crew skills, provisions, or equipment
A better top speed of 60, and a better view range

How do you ignore the massive buffs it gets, only focus on the nerfed part and say its bad?
Moment

[safe rapids]

It’ll barely affect it
HP buff was needed imo
The accuracy is already bad and you won’t be sniping so that nerf won’t affect it
The tank rarely reaches 50 anyway so the speed nerf is fine
And again the IS7 is so scary cause it accelerates so fast it’s good that it’s being nerfed, and meanwhile it’ll become more flexible with better traverse and can catch medium flankers off guard. Still will be a good tank.

[stuck acorn]

...

140 will have slightly better gun after the update, but do you really think it can compensate for it having literally no armour and less gun depression? These 5 km/h can't do it either.

140 will still fall behind T62, 907 and T22

@upbeat sphinx not viable. Just less painfull. After this update both options on E100 will be equaly useless

[upbeat sphinx]

I guess now the 128mm on the e100 will become a viable solution
@safe rapids let's hope so

[unique scaffold]

140 will either be a worse 907 without gun depression, or a worse t100 lt with less speed lol
that's what you get by removing 140 armor

[pseudo bobcat]

I do think that with these changes the 140 and T100 would become very similar. Both have arguably similar armor. 140 have better DPM but T100 spotting mechanics and superior camo and mobility might arguably more preferable. I mean the only reason you would play 140 over T100 is probably better DPM and somewhat better handling? But imo the T100 is a more superior tank than 140

[vast relic]

I think the main concern is that the 140's play style is changing entirely. It'll still be a good tank and perform about the same stat wise, but you can't play it like a brawler anymore. Honestly the 140 change is really weird considering WG's new balancing philosophy since the new 140 fulfills the same 'high dpm, high mobility' role as the t100lt and maybe even the Leo. Meanwhile I'm pretty sure there's no tech-tree tank that really fills the brawling role except the E50m (which still plays very differently from the current 140)

[safe rapids]

140 will be one of the fastest accelerating mediums at the tier. It’s actually insane how mobile it’s becoming. The gun is great, it’s going to essentially take the crown of a T100.
The T-62 is becoming more of a close range brawler with much worse gun handling but nice top speed. It’ll be less of a one trick pony. However it can’t relocate like a 140 can.
However the bottom line is that the 140 and T-62A will both become very different and you actually now have a choice when it comes to playing your T10 Soviet med. Keep in mind the 140 keeps its hull armor and )( shaped hull so it can still get funny bounces. The one main thing to remember is that the 140 isn’t getting better or worse overall, it’s just changing it’s playstyle to suit a different type of player. I’d suggest the T-62A if you want something more like the 140 as it’s getting faster and losing gun handling so it can only do good at close range. Run Enhanced armor too to try and bounce a bit more on the hull. Also it’s late so please don’t reply to this message, I’m just offering up my 2 cents.

@upbeat sphinx if you mean the alpha nerf to 600, that’s a bug. Don’t worry. The E100 will only lose a bit of reload for much more reliable turret armor and more flexibility at close range.

[pseudo bobcat]

I don't think T62A with that paper hull is gonna be the next 140 or 121. And I think with these changes the 140 might no longer compete with T62A but now compete against Leo 1 or T100

but at this point it's quite pointless I guess to argue since they alr confirmed it and def won't change the updates. We just have to see what happens after 9.1

[unique scaffold]

140 fastest accelerating medium at the tier: literally same hp/t as of t62a.
t62a becoming a close range brawler... Why? because you decided that? t62a is just getting a speed buff, its getting literally NOTHING for it to be a brawler, it has trash hull, t62a is a hulldown tank, not a brawler
62a and 140 wont become "pretty different"
they ALREADY are different, and 140 is unique
in 9.1 62a will literally be the same tank but faster (so, better)
whilst 140 will stop being a 140, and just being a random medium/light paper tank dpm machine, but worse than all of the others : leo1, 907, t100lt, vickers

@uneven narwhal the change on the turret is IRRELEVANT, the HUGE change is the hull being worse, not suitable anymore for diamond angle bait!
If anything, obj140 needed a HULL buff to emphasize his unique playstyle even more, instead of turning it into a stupid 907.

[uneven narwhal]

The only noticeable change on the 140 is the lower plate being nerfed from 100mm to 70mm
The change on the turret it very minute
The only part you can reliably pen with med standard rounds on the 140 is the one I've highlighted by the red dots and the shaded area
The others either require HEAT to go through or are an autoricochet

If you're using HEAT, the 140 turret is better as of now anyways 🤷

Granted, it's still quite a nerf from the turret armor it currently has but it's nowhere near "literally no armor"

[stuck acorn]

it is literally no armour. at least for a T10. even that red part gets 260 effective armour at most. That can be penned by most T10 tanks without using gold. Hull is even weaker now.

And if enemy decides to load gold then only way for you to bounce is probably taking the shot with your gun lol. Even if he is driving some random stock T9

[merry pelican]

vk really get 600 damage ?

[neat crescent]

So they changed one gun and it so happens that the gun was shared with a few other t10s

[safe rapids]

@merry pelican bug
Alright 1. I asked for people not to reply
2. I meant in the future, in 9.1, the 140 will be the fastest or at least one of the fastest accelerating meds in the tier
3. I get your point, but the 62A still will be more of an up close and personal type of medium. Its gun handling is being trashed so it’s forced to play at close range, and the speed allows it to get into position faster. Maybe brawl isn’t the right term, I should have used “play more aggressively”.
4. Both of us are also massively prejudging at this point anyway so it doesn’t even matter. The update isn’t even out on live servers so we really have no idea what’s going to happen until the changes actually go through.
5. Don’t reply to this I don’t want notifs, thank you.

[uneven narwhal]

You have no chance even as of now if someone decides to fire gold
The mobility buff is enough to compensate for it

It has the best gun among all of the Russian mediums
Dare I say, one of the best guns in the game

[fathom glacier]

Amx 48 ac has the worst dpm of top gun in 9.1. 380 dmg with 11 sec reload. Just why

[cunning kindle]

I literally pen 140 turret with standard ammo on meds, i think the changes to 140 are more nerfs than buffs, like why wud u play a 140 over a 121b next update other than speed and even then 121b gets the speed boost consumable

[pseudo bobcat]

I mean the 140 turret is alr paper thin lol that 30mm roof is so annoying so they instead nerf it a bit more as if 140 is this god like hulldown tank. Compared to similar meds, it has the worst turret armor. Even 4202 turret is gonna be better than 140. XD

[ornate warren]

140 was getting penned from the turret quite easliy before, now it can be penned with standard ammo too. I m not expecting 140 to be relevant again, except it might do job with its mobility now

oh and also E5 will suck again imo cuz I would rather have better power to weight ratio for a decent time than having better maximum speed with standard pow. to weight ratio.

I m just wondering why theres no buff to dpm of E5, because I m so tired to see myself getting pushed by mediums even if I m in the best position with my team supporting.

[unique scaffold]

kinda toxic coming here saying wrong stuff and not wanting discussions... ill just disable the tag but i cant stand reading disinformation:
as of now, 62a has slightly faster acceleration than 140, in 9.1 they will both be buffed and be perfectly equal in this, and calling it the fastest accelerating med is stupid when its not bringing Medium armor. Vickers is faster, better turret, 907 same, arguably even t100 has a harder to hit/pen turret.
T62a won't be a more of an up close and personal type of medium, it will still be Accurate enough, it will just Hulldown faster.
just because they removed the only tank doing the obj140 thing (obj140) it doesn't mean a random tank magically will fit the role and close the hole
t62a has reallt garbage 0 hull armor , it wont EVER be what 140 is now, it physically cant, and if it can, it means it can do it even now, because in 9.1 they're not changing ANYTHING about t62a armor, if it doesn't have the armor it just cant do it, they nerfed accuracy ok, its a less accurate Hulldown medium, it wont magically be a close range brawler like 140, 183 has horrible accuracy, do you see people using it in close range? lmao.

[safe rapids]

It is a bug… @fathom glacier
Smh the amount of braincells people lack on this server
I think it’s time for me to leave this channel be because it’s making me lose braincells, I can hardly comprehend what people are even saying now.
Cya…

[knotty surge]

No I meant for the suggestions I made, but yea that "buff" was quite disappointing. I fell like I would give it higher alpha just to make it a bit more unique compared to the leopard 1. I do agree with @full token that having 3490-3540 dpm with 375 alpha is too much. Maybe running rammer it gets 3450 something around that to match the wz-121. Because of the armor profile, with the higher alpha, it would suit its "poke and shoot" playstyle. It would be like a WZ-121 with less alpha, less turret armor, but in turn gain mobility and gun handling (considering the turret weakpoints. Imo just felt like wargaming was really trying to differentiate the amx 30B and maybe in this way it would make it more unique. Having 10 degrees of gun depression might be a potential issue for the higher alpha though.

[full token]

Where are the people that asked for the fv4202 to get the turret buff? It’s fun having a 60kph medium with good p/w now have a good turret to go with a hull improved from being very bouncy on the front to being even thicker, and hesh and good dpm, and a pen buff because apcr is replaced with ap. And all that for a loss in dispersion that isn’t at all equal to the other buffs

[neat crescent]

Gotta say tho the armor buff isn't too noticeable, it will prevent 183s from heshing but that's about it, the "buff" in the front plate was for the middle strip lol lower is still easy pen and the turret is 240+ish all around now.

Edit: oh right and the front plate has 1 less degree of angling apparently 69>68

[wind flower]

Still here~

Now I get to ask for getting Premium HESH along side the HEAT gun

[full token]

The hull is still as bouncy and they buffed a part of it. A loss of one degree is negligible considering it’s still an extreme angle and bounces anything. The turret buff took it from having troll bounces to being kind of reliable, atleast when hulldown and using the gun depression to hide the lower part of the turret that’s now the main weakspot.

[stuck acorn]

i can't really tell if it's bait, but if it's not - 💀

[charred heron]

I actually wanted this tbh lol

[full token]

No it needs the heat. I can’t pen anything if my max pen is 255 ap. How can I pen the Maus from the front without heat if it angles… or pen the jageru’s cheeks now that they buffed it.

[charred heron]

Idk maybe use ur speed to go around them?

[full token]

No that’s too complicated

[raw geyser]

Aim at the Jag’s cupola lol

[unique scaffold]

but fv4 is slow, how am i supposed to go around superheavies with just 60km/h

[stuck acorn]

it would be OP even with old 40 km/h speed of 4202

@wind flower well we already had that in the game. WG added it in update 4.1. It resulted in 4202 getting massive nerf 1 update later. And i just want to remind that 4202 was 20 km/h slower back then.

@full token i don't see any point in using 4202 woith heat gun. There is no point in it. 4202 with heat is basically worse patton/stb.

[wind flower]

It’s half and half, personally I do want it but then again it will make 4202 op and off balance

[charred heron]

Playing in a mt but refuse to use its speed🗿

You might as well go play a heavy

[full token]

How can you say that you wanted the fv4202 to get heat along with its hesh but then you find the solution to be flanking with the high mobility it has

[tranquil sphinx]

Does the E6 is will be better than the 260? I see it will get a little bit better dpm and the same speed as the 260, but still the E6 got this huge cupola which still makes it kinda bad even using it with the -10 degrees of gundep.

[charred heron]

Its a joke cuz it will never happen and way too broken. We have to make do with what we have currently and create a unique play style with 4202 instead of playing it like a m60

@stuck acorn I know what it’s like and i agree with u

[full token]

Just like the turret buff shouldn’t have happened either

[raw geyser]

Alright
.
.
.
Very interesting changes ..

[next quail]

So wg decided that its very inspired to nerf grille, rhm and waffle's 15cm alpha. Why. Also why amx ac 48 and amx 50 120 are nerfed. the 50 120 is a very nice tank as it is. The ac 48 its going to have below 2k dpm and its gonna be useless

[nocturne obsidian]

what'd they do to E 100 and VK 72.01 K 😭

[next quail]

Vk has tungsten so its understandable. E 100 idk why

[nocturne obsidian]

ah well, if WG is really set on nerfing those 2 tanks i can't do much against it, might as well just switch to 60TP or keep spamming 121/113G FT

[pallid nest]

The alpha changes on stuff like E100, VK and Badger are a bug from wg not working things out properly before releasein open test...

[plain wagon]

Seems they want MLE.54 as a tanker and 121 as a brawler

[brazen shore]

.. What?!!

[unborn rampart]

Hope you are right
I was assuming that, too, but you never can be sure with wg

[full token]

Them not mentioning it in their list of changes should mean that it’s a bug

[pallid nest]

They've confirmed on a stream that they are bugs

[unborn rampart]

Ah, what a relief

[unique scaffold]

how do we know where the armor of our tank is?

[pallid nest]

It tends to be on the outside