tank-balance-discussion

[candid steeple]

No one notices how premium heavies at tier X are all heaviums with one exception of VK. All god high speed strong or broken dpm with medium tank accuracy and 10 degree of gun depression. Also don't forget strong turrets and now even idiot proof with Concept 1B. You see heavies from tech tree used to be like that but WG was like lets all hard nerf those tanks. And ofc all mediums drivers are like yeah finally no more counters for us. Who needs skill? People don't even notice how mediums are pushed in this meta. But we will get people complaining about mediums an lights being weak. There are literally maps were if you don't have medium in that spot you lose the game. Is there any map where heavies are truly needed to take the spot? Ofc you don't, heavy meta is forced to play med side. Meanwhile mediums or lights are essential for most maps. That's why I want mines removed from tier X. You get med or light take that mid spot and game is won. I wont even name other maps. All good players know which ones need mediums where or it's a loss. But it's good now that mediums are even more effective there with turret buff after a turret buff. Previously as heavy you could ignore few shot from a medium because they used to have 3k dpm or less. Now each if going strong around 3400-3600 dpm. Hp just evaporates. Skilled players in mediums just make you hate the game. You can always go around heavies and plan. How to outplay a medium when only other medium can counter them?

[empty nexus]

Mines is too small for Tier 10 tbf, I wouldn’t mind if they expanded mined and made it larger, as it is on PC, or atleast the same size as Castilla

[modest musk]

mines is the first map a player plays on, but how are they supposed to expand it? they could maybe do a remake but i wouldnt like it as the map somehow is a little nostalgic
also, they once removed my very favourite map as me and my friend had lots of fun memories in it
it was a pond left and a desert + railway right, center was a mountain... i was really good on this map, me and him made a special KV2+KV1S tactic for the map, he now doesnt play blitz anymore and im all alone

[quick lichen]

@candid steeple or maybe medium players aren’t being smart enough to stay alive

[sleek grove]

The map itself is pretty big, it's just most of the action takes place in its middle area and most of it filled with hills and houses.
If ur a good player u don't rely on middle part to win

[quick lichen]

Mines is pretty simple. If you don’t win the hill, you can either punish the hill, send a fast tank to the lighthouse or flank toward town with heavies

[twin egret]

Mirage?

[minor minnow]

The tutorial takes place on mines atm

Ah, thx

[nimble zodiac]

They were telling them the name of the map he had as his favorite, which indeed was Mirage

[candid steeple]

Foch a front line td aiming at by 268 (without calibrated shells and without gold) from a map away. Such a good frontal armor. yeah what a joke. Good that they gave 263 and WZ armor buff and Foch left in dirt.

[nimble zodiac]

Wow that's crazy, a tank not being very protected against one of the best TD guns in tier 10?!?!

I mean I still wish the Foch 155 could use the 640 alpha set for the non-auto gun

[sleek grove]

Oh yeah let's stand still and not wiggle.
Also who said foch is left in the dirt, it's still a very good tank.

[twin egret]

Why doesn't the FV215b have tracks like the E 100? They're so flimsy

[winged barn]

Crew skills active? Boi
That's for a single shot

[lapis sigil]

Give AMX CDA armor buff

[candid steeple]

Aim at newly buffed 263 or WZ and see what you get. All red but not lower plate. What is Foch as front line. All pen. Also I was not spotted so he didn't even know. I am just mentioning how WG buffs something to be border line broken but leaves other tank that they nerfed to the ground with alpha decrease. It should also be said that Foch 155 autoloader got nerfed before heavy tank hp buff. So Foch 155 is still in nerfed state but everything else in the game is a lot stronger. Also double HE pen oneshot of tanks no longer even works since WG is smart enough to give already too strong tanks a spall liner.

@sleek grove that luck of skill means that Foch 155 is not even a threat in the battlefield. No accuracy and no alpha. No gun ark and no gun depression. Also speed but no trevers speed. While WZ now can just go hull down and it's impossible to pen while only spot that you can pen on 263 now is a lower plate with no weak spots on the super structure anymore. I play Foch 155 a lot but defenetly don't lack the skill to be useless as most Foch players nowdays. How hard is it to just load gold or shoot at the drive wheel? Foch is too easy to pen and too easy to flank. Also HE penns sides like no tomorrow.

@versed tide with 152+ mm guns you do at most 700-800 damage against spall liner. It used to be 1000-1200 when lucky. All guns under 152+ are or same damage with the chance of just splashing or if medium tank gun to do less damage. Spall liner is a problem provision that shouldn't be in the game.

[sleek grove]

Hmmmm, maybe bc wz is kinda slow, and 263 has a really weak mantel piece and engine deck, foch is still strong, maybe if your lack of skills wouldn't be the biggest problem here

[versed tide]

only two tier tens have spall liner; sure they are both paper tds but that doesn’t make HE irrelevant lol

[full token]

263 mantlet is good now. No longer prammo-penned by every tank

[frail silo]

sadly the mantel isn't weak no more

[sleek grove]

i can still pen it with prammo on 120mm guns with cali

[stuck acorn]

he probably meant that now you can't one clip any tank at T10 frontally which was one of the main arguments for foch autoloader nerf 2 years ago. Foch back then was obviously broken and i'm glad they nerfed it, but that's true that it started to kinda fall behind others now. It's still not at the point where it needs buff tho

It's they way how that game works. There are strong tanks and weak tanks. WG buffs some of those weaker ones and nerf some of those better ones. Some tanks are left untouched. It's obvious that those nerfed ones and those that weren't touched will sooner or later start falling behind.

Great example here is STA-1 and pre 8.5 cent 1. These tanks when they both were released cent 1 in 1.5 update and STA in 2.4 were pretty good. As they were just average T8 mediums none of them were taking much attention and both were left utouched trough all those years. Cent was left for 6 years until WG actually realized how underwhelming it is, and STA is still waiting for a buff. There is nothing really we can do about that. WG balacing team probably don't even play the game at all, their decisions are made by looking into some charts, not actually gameplay of tanks, neither the players opinion. Only time they even take those factors into considiration is where everybody starts hating something and it starts to lower down their profit.

Tldr - this game juzt works like this, all you can do is hope that WG will finally start to notice what they are doing

[real bison]

@sleek grove double the foch up, and the threat is even more prevalent

2 mobile tanks with 1k alpha each, with considerable armour that most tanks will have to switch to prammo to pen

[mental pasture]

🤡

[safe rapids]

Droodles is officially on something. How the hell the T57 can be OP is beyond me. We need a competent YouTuber such as Fatness to rank the T10s instead.

[sleek grove]

he really put sheridan in broke bruh , he is such a bot

[mental pasture]

Since when Ho-Ri is broken? @unique scaffold

[winged barn]

I do love when "average" somehow means bad

[safe rapids]

Yeah ikr, it’s just stupid. Even the Concept isn’t broken imho. Super strong but totally broke.

[sleek grove]

907 and t22 should be lower fr

[mental pasture]

Broken on hull down, average in other situations

[sharp saddle]

Everyone’s going to have their differing opinions on how tanks are and where they should be. People will disagree.

For example, I’d probably put FV4202 in good, I’d knock 121B, E5 and 121 down a tier.
I love the 121 and it’s one of my favourite tier tens, but I wouldn’t put it that high. Just all my own opinion

[safe rapids]

Exactly. It’s a one trick pony, it does hull down and that’s it. It’s got weak sides and hull armor, gun is average apart from DPM. A tank for me is only “broken” if all three core characteristics (protection, mobility, and firepower) are all overcooked. So, even tho the Kran is fantastic in hill down, it’s not OP cause it has weaknesses in other areas. Anni is broken cause it has the super speed boost, a stupid good gun, and great armor.

[sleek grove]

oh no he swore, oh no, he still has trash opinions ,oh no, he has under 50 wr and his opinion is irrelevant, oh no 😔

[distant river]

1/3 of the side is impenetrable unless almost flat on as well as the hull having a wide lower plate rather that being totally weak, and it's got good dpm as well as absolutely fantastic gun handling and good pen. It also has extremely good mobility for a heavy.

[gleaming apex]

Dokutah#7388 was muted

[outer glen]

215b should be in meh category with 183 ngl it needs a buff

[sleek grove]

oh no look how unbalanced 30b is omg if only it was TRUE, god damn cant believe it takes more than half a braincell to actually see it is quite balanced.

[uneven narwhal]

Finally
Inner Peace

[leaden flare]

Oh no I missed it😔

[unique scaffold]

Ho no

[candid steeple]

Tbh Droodles video is pretty accurate. All mediums are super strong. There may be few tanks that are wrong but most of evaluations are accurate. And for the guy who said T57 heavy is not broken well you should have played with my one friend. Guy just got the T57 and he was averaging with me each game 4000-5000 damage battles. Gun is OP and he was playing it before armor buffs.

When someone picks T57 I usually pick AMX 50 B since I like that combo. In my opinion for better player amx 50 B is stronger but T57 requers less skill. You can't be penned from the front at slight angle with HE.

[stuck acorn]

man what are u taking? SInce when T57 is OP. Nobody considers it as an OP tank. It's gun is great, but at a price. This tank isn't fast, neither it has armour. It's only advantage is the gun. 50b has same kind of armor as T57. Paper turret, but strong hull. Only difference is that 50b can be easly HEd from the side/ front side and with T57 it's way harder. That's all. Both tanks are great, but both are far from OP

Also saying that all mediums are broken is even more stupid. Learn how2play

[sleek grove]

@stuck acornman that guy has trolled a bit in the past couple of days, i would advise you to just ignore him, calling foch bad lmaooo

[nimble zodiac]

Did you guys not listen to his explanation at the start of the video about what he means by "broke"?

@quick lichen well at least if they wanna talk about it, they could get context

[quick lichen]

You’d have to want to watch the video first 😂

[sleek grove]

doesnt matter what droodles said about the meaning of broke is, he put some highly questionable tanks in that category, which is just dumb

[rare sleet]

Man puts fv4202 in the same category as amx 30 b and he complained how fv4202 lacked turret armor = not great, bruh moment.
Where is e50m?

[uneven narwhal]

I fail to understand how these 3 are broken and 60TP is not

[nimble zodiac]

Ah yes, I'm gonna judge his choices for a category that I don't care the meaning of

[stuck acorn]

no need to know the meaning of category. The fact itself that he puts tanks like 121b 2 categories over for example fv4202 and puts in highest category tanks like ho ri, T57 and sheridan over tanks like 60TP is enough to judge him

[nimble zodiac]

Well this reminds me of the time I call KV-2 broken, but not OP at all, just because of the gun 🤦‍♂️

[quasi axle]

Pretty wack definition of broken 🤷‍♂️

[remote oriole]

Broken and op don‘t necessarily mean the same thing. I define broken as ‚game breaking‘ which is not necessarily op

[stuck acorn]

How Ho ri, sheridan without missiles or a T57 heavy ( i consider this one as most stupid out of those 3 lol) are gamebreaking?

[sudden path]

T57 is good at putting out dmg but by that logic 4005 and 50b are also in s tier, but 4005 is down low and 50b was forgotten LOL
60tp and is7 not in s tier is inexcusable, those 2 are the best heavies in the game
Is7 has so much armor and mobility it's scary
And 60tp has no real weaknesses and tungsten allows the tank to rack pretty much every tank in the game

[nimble zodiac]

Last time I checked Tungsten Shells don't affect module damage ._.

[prisma jetty]

It only seems to affect average damage, not module damage

Module damage runs on its own +- 25% system, disconnected from the damage to the enemy tank

[quasi axle]

The higher the damage roll the higher the module damage.
(At least I'm pretty sure that's how it works)

[sleek grove]

Well, on Blitz hangar it shows that module dmg doesn't Increase when activating tungsten

[drowsy plaza]

Module dmg is separate from actual damage.

[orchid grove]

To clear some things up:

1. Module damage statistically is not tied to alpha. A T49 might only have 560 alpha, but it’s module damage can be higher than say the Conway with 600 alpha
2. Your module damage roll is tied to your damage roll. If you roll +25% on your damage roll, your module damage roll will also be +25%. Because tungsten shells works by manipulating your damage roll, and not the alpha directly, it does increase your module damage.

[versed tide]

It’s why when a 60tp has tungsten and adrenaline it ammoracks other 60tp’s during that period the most

[winter heron]

The thing that bothered me is that he has no idea what the word "average" means. There should literally be the same number of tanks above and below that category. The fact that nearly everything is above average shows that he really hasn't thought this through

[stuck acorn]

well said lol

[orchid grove]

uwudles doesn't quite grasp the concept that just because you can do well in something doesn't mean that it can't also simultaneously be bad or below average

[mental pasture]

<@&481447501690568709> can I roast the next hacked account offering nitro?
Gone

[bold dagger]

yeah got it

[ruby dagger]

Take it it easy guys, Droodles Is a typical high schooler overburdened with homework and too little sleep.

[hollow timber]

T57 considered broken, now that's something new to hear 🙃

[versed tide]

t57 is worse after the pbr update imo

[orchid grove]

Honestly, T57 didn't really change all that much after the PBR update. It's a little more obnoxious to pen now up close, but I don't really think it makes that much of a difference. People are just rediscovering how fun it is

[versed tide]

I felt the turret armor set it apart from 50b now it just feels like a virgin 50b imo

[orchid grove]

T57 has never had any turret armor. I looked at the old and new models on armor inspector, and honestly, they’re roughly the same. The trade off has always been better gun for less mobility

[versed tide]

normally when running gun rammer on my medium tanks I had to use premium rounds; these days i can pen with standard very easily

[twilit crystal]

it was briefly op due to players readjusting their aim imo

[remote birch]

Wg could you please nerf the camo of WT the tank is so hard to deal with it has everything to be OP( and im tired of facing it most of the game as a tier 8)

[neat crescent]

It used to be more,uh... Unrealistic? And the turret had weirder angles so it was more troll than the 50bs always flat easy pennable turret I guess that's what they mean, since right now both are similar in that sense and t57 isn't as troll

[jagged raptor]

comet has a due buff, i deserves it
its dispersion and accuracy or the pen is horrendous as compared to other T7 meds and lights with similar alpha
'simply cope' is kinda hard to do when you have to grind 200k exp in it

[sleek grove]

Simply cope

[tawny sandal]

@remote birch Btw, Wg is nerfing the WT as of rn. The dpm/reload time is going up by at least a second, and the kmph is going to be at least 35 to 40 instead of 50. Not much of a difference, but I don't think they'll be nerfing the camo any time soon

[full token]

Top speed was not 50. It’s 38, and they’re buffing it to 40

[tawny sandal]

Oh, there buffing the top speed? Ok, I apologize, I thought they were nerfing that part

[warm zephyr]

About teambuilding in rating battle,
my feeling is there was a change at the algorithmus. Before the last update, 30/31.12.2021 the difference between the teams was 30-50 Points. Now sometimes 600 Point. The most time, 200-300 Points. If you have the luck to be in a high point team winning is no problem. But if you are in the low point team your sucked. It is like to fight against Chuck Norris

[sand wagon]

... you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. 1st you are at 3.3k meaning you are in the midst of everyone who is calibrating. second, it is only the second day since the start of the season, so barely anyone is calibrated. Such differences are completely normal

[warm zephyr]

@sand wagon ok, thanks for the information. yes i have no idea about the system of teambuilding. Only the feeling with my point of view. Do you have a page, webpage, ... about the system of teambuilding to learn about it.

[quick lichen]

@warm zephyr silvers play against platinums all the time lol

[stuck acorn]

yep, and that's what i hate the most about ratings. I even had a bronze in team while being in high plat few times.

[daring stone]

Waiting for the new update ..when it is dropping btw ?

[uneven narwhal]

12 Jan

[unique scaffold]

The Panther M10 needs a buff. I know no one cares about it but it is terrible. It's literally a worse version of the Tech Tree Panther, but you Have to pay for it. I know that it has better maneuverability, but it has far worse armor and penetration, with meh DPM. IT NEEDS A BUFF.

[quick lichen]

Oh no! Anyways

[unique scaffold]

E 100 is historically suppose to be a super heavy tank

[neat crescent]

It is

[prisma jetty]

It is a super heavy

[safe rapids]

It is

[sleek grove]

It is

[upbeat sphinx]

the panther m 10 should get spaced armour everywhere, at least smasher proof

[viscid jay]

Make this part stronger or remove 1 second from the reload to 4,1 sec/shell

[cursive schooner]

What the actual?? It’s already one of the highest dpm heavies in t8 and has great accuracy. Just hide the cupola or move…

[nimble zodiac]

1. The flames still appear afaik
2. This is a balance discussion for tanks, not game requests

[quick lichen]

How about no?

[gleaming apex]

OvONinaOvO#6133 was muted

[maiden marsh]

Matchmaking

[quick lichen]

Is random

[twin egret]

T-44 with 122mm gun is better then the other gun. You do more damage

[hearty steeple]

Hot takes

[twin egret]

The 105mm on the T92E1 is better. It has better accuracy

[winter heron]

This is honestly one of the strongest tier 8 heavies, and you want to buff it? Most people, especially with 122mm guns struggle to hit the cupola, and it's even less of a problem if you wiggle or hide it. The tank is literally like an action x with higher alpha but an extra weak point. If you removed the cupola or buffed the reload it would 1) make the tank broken and 2) make it a carbon copy of the action x.

People hate buffing tanks to make them op until it's their tank at stake, then they're all for it

[rare sleet]

lol why'd you buy it then? I knew that chieftain had this cheeky hatch which I knew would annoy me if i tried to play it so I didn't get. nvm the fact i had the shark anyways so getting chieftain is pretty much a downgrade

[winged barn]

Actually yes
It's a leo pta that is half the size with gun depression

[twin egret]

A saw a platoon of them running that and it was annoying

[jagged crescent]

woah swear word!

[uneven narwhal]

Skill issue

[gleaming apex]

rory0627#8898 was muted

[teal crystal]

buff AT 15A, gun is useless when against same tier heavies, unless you do APCR go brrr

[nimble zodiac]

171mm pen is standard for tier 7 heavies...

[jagged crescent]

im pretty sure that's actually below average

[nimble zodiac]

I guess so

[sleek grove]

it has the same pen as helsing and just a bit more pen than vindicator.
the truth is that it has the 2nd lowest pen, but its a pew pew gun so what u expect?

[full token]

more pen

[sleek grove]

it has more pen than a comet , which is enough 💀
and its 23 more mm of pen so yeah

[twin egret]

Doesn't the comet carry a 17-pdr

[scarlet fjord]

WG bring back the old 1 shot gun for Foch 155 so people have a choice i used to love the Foch now its not competitive enough
i can do the same thing better in a 50B sure it has armor while being very fast but ur hp's are way lower than heavies so they dont mind trading with you even if u do well using a wall to angle ur front and bounce a few shells the gun handling is horrible it frustrates you so much it is an ok tank for a TD i guess but u can make the tank more playable without actually making it all that much stronger its just a ball of frustration sometimes with that gun TD's usually out trade you in alpha and heavies dont really care to trade with you its neither here nor there ur only option is to ambush people and use ur DPM which is eh u can do that in better tanks that can survive more and all that
explain to me why the damn thing has a 7 second interclip? its a TD right?
why does a TD with 1120 burst damage have a 7 second interclip so 7 seconds of burst time
while lets say a T57 heavy with a turret needs 5 seconds to put in 1200 damage 3 shells?
or even the 50B is a better comparison its as fast as the Foch only it has way more hit points and needs 6 seconds to pull out 1200 damage whats the point of your math?

[stuck acorn]

it's not really how balance works. If the isn't popular it doesn't mean it can stay unbalanced. The buff he proposed isn't good way to balance chieftain, but it definetly needs some something. What about some speed? to make it work like T95E6 at T10

[sleek grove]

Simply get better, 1951 is a difficult tank for non experienced players

[silver sedge]

I got the 1951 from a snow globe and I try it out in Uprising. Stay in general with your team, don't get caught out in the open and go hull down. I'm happy with it because I never would have thought that I get a snow globe out of my third gold crate 🙂

[dull osprey]

M48A2 Räumpanzer needs a speed buff or a armor because it gets shot down way to easily when trying to ram ngl
@leaden flare there is literally "ram" in its name
oh....

[leaden flare]

Because its not meant to ram@dull osprey are you trying to tell a German the German Translation of a German tank ?
I know what it says and it's not ram

[silver sedge]

The only thing that helps is situational awareness so you can retreat a tier in time. I'm figuring out how to play it too. I didn't even play Emil 1. Luckily I have three lives in Uprising 😏

[viscid jay]

Because it’s trash, worse Emil 1 but with a fancier skin.

Emil 1: 180mm turret armour front, 70mm sides 50mm rear, hull armour is 125

Emil 1951: 160mm turret front, 35mm sides and 20mm rear, hull armour is 100mm.

And the Emil 1951 is a same tier premium....

[sleek grove]

Skill issue

[full token]

is armor everything a tank has?

[spiral python]

ikr, there are better characteristics a tanks has than armour
You could compare more things other than taht

[leaden flare]

You can't expect much brain from T8 players especially the 252u und Emil 1 spammers

[viscid jay]

No but it’s one of the things, the 1951 is a premium version and it’s worse than the tech tree variant, it should atleast have the same armour thickness but hey I don’t have the tank so what do I know

[full token]

doesnt need to be the same or better. It doesnt perform badly enough to justify any buff

[sharp saddle]

A premium tank that isn’t blatantly better and stronger than it’s tech tree variant?

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-impossible-marvel-shocked-gif-15104180

[stuck acorn]

i hope that there will be a day when we will finally see premium tanks as they are meant to be - worse than their tech tree counterparts. For example KV-4 and KV-5, VK 100 and VK 168, pershing and pilot, Tiger 2 and lowe.

All these tanks are similar to each other, but the tech tree one is better. That's how it should be

@uneven narwhal i never actually complained about premiums being worse. That's how it should be. Some people tend to not realize that tho. I hope WG will finally start nerfing prems, or at least powercreep them to the point when even those prems that are currently OP will become average at best

[uneven narwhal]

I like how the community complains that premium tanks are better than their tech tree counterparts then complains that a premium is worse than its techtree counterpart

[neat hare]

If the prem tank is worse than a tank you can get for free, no one will buy it. Devs would have wasted time putting it in the game if it's worse or exactly the same as every other tech tree tank or prem tank in the game, as there would be no point in spending money on it if it's gonna be worse/perform worse than other tanks you can get without spending. Trust me, people are complaining how prems are overpowering tech tree tanks, but if it was the other way around, people would complain about prems having quite literally no differences to tech tree tanks or already existing premiums

As an example, look at battlepass tanks. The only reason battlepasses sell is resources for one, and because the main reward, the collector tier 6, is slightly better than the tech tree counterpart. Just look at the Agent compared to the Vk, or the Thunder compared to the Kv1s, there's differences but not many but it can make a tank play completely different. If all prems were like this though I wouldn't spend a dime as it's boring to play something that is the same as something else but worse. Just my opinion though

[uneven narwhal]

Nah I'm not talking about you

[orchid grove]

All the prem tanks used to be either on par, or worse than their tech tree counterparts. The original Löwe, T34, IS-6, Panther/M10, KV-5, etc…

All of them started as worse tanks than their tech tree versions

The allure of buying a prem tank has always been being able to make credits with it.

[outer glen]

Wg should give sta1 55km max speed imo 45km feels like playing centurion without the turret armor lol and HE able everywhere
Also buff the dpm and the engine literally sluggish for a paper medium

[neat hare]

That is true but I was referring to the blitz nowadays, since I can make credits pretty easily in pretty much any tank I play wouldn't make sense for me to buy a prem like that. Fair point totally forgot that prems made more lmao

[twilit crystal]

yeah what was the first op high tier prem anyway? Is3d?

[thick rover]

215B buff pls

[stuck acorn]

Yeah, i think it was IS-3 D. Maybe E25 was released earlier, i don't remember that well

[orchid grove]

Yeah, IS-3D was definitely the turning point of when prems went from on-par with tech tree tanks to blatantly overpowered. Before IS-3D, we had an era of decent tanks that were on-par overall with tech tree tanks (although with different gameplay) like Type 59, SU-122-44, Tankenstein, and E25 (albeit original E25 was kinda garbage), but IS-3D was just blatantly OP

[quick lichen]

In part because they nerfed the is3

The type 59 was such a disaster

They made it really good with +2/-2
Then nerfed it and gave it preferential mm
Then gave every tank +1/-1 and didn’t buff it 😂

[twilit crystal]

the t59 only had +2-2 for a few weeks . It was promised a nerf btw. I think it was $50 which was still expensive but it came with some gold @quick lichen. Obviously now a new tier 8 prem is around 100 in crates. I do think WG has gotten better at balance every since they started live testing. The last outrageously op tier 8,9,10 prem has been quite a while

[quick lichen]

And for $70 which was outrageous at the time

[orchid grove]

I don’t think IS-3 was nerfed. IS-3D just came out better than IS-3. Especially because back in the day, IS-3 had that massive 25mm roof weak spot.

Also, Type 59 came out with +1/-2MM on Blitz. I know, because I was one of the guys who bought it first few hours when WG accidentally released the $70 bundle for $20. It was never nerfed on Blitz. People just though it was garbage relative to its old glory state on PC, and it cost $70.

Now like half a decade later, people are just getting confused because it was nerfed on PC, and they thought it was nerfed on Blitz.

Remember guys, no premium was nerfed on Blitz all the way until 5.5.

[quick lichen]

It was nerfed from testing to being sold with the mm change

Is3 had a rof nerf really early on like 2015?

[stuck acorn]

My idea on nerfing premiums is to make 1 update with rebalance of premium vechicles every year, in the same month so people will know when exactly their premiums might get nerfed. In this case they would be sure that their prem tank will not get changed until that time and they will have plenty of time to play it in current state. It would be also healthy for the game, as everybody knows that many premium tanks are imbalanced and need some changes

I'm curious what others may think about this idea. I don't see any better option. Premium tanks need changes, everybody knows that, but nerfing them without telling anything to community may be unfair to people that bought the tank thinking that it will never be nerfed.

[orchid grove]

For a second, I doubted this claim, since public test and blitzhangar weren’t a thing back in 2015/16 but I checked the patch notes for Type 59’s release update (2.4), and you’re actually right lol. There’s a note in there stating the reload went 9s -> 10s, aim time 2.3 -> 2.5s, and MM changed to +1/-2. I completely forgot that WG used to add changes to test tanks in the patch notes back then

[quick lichen]

Who’s the old senile confused man now?😂😂😂

I remembered that pretty clearly because of the $70 was like almost double the next most expensive tank at the time

[orchid grove]

Well, to all the young’uns on this server watching us bicker about patch notes from half a decade ago, we both look like old senile confused men 😂 😂

Also, I found the IS-3 nerf you were talking about. Man, that was one heck of a nerf bat, and we’re still feeling the effects of it nearly 7 years later.

Gun handling from .21/.21/.08 -> .25/.25/.16 and reload from 13.72s -> 14.5s. Although that was almost a full year before the release of IS-3D.

Truthfully, I have very little memory of balance changes from before 2.0, because I wasn’t that fa

[quick lichen]

HAH! I knew I knew what I was talking about

[stuck acorn]

wow, i don't remember that nerf at all even if i was playing quite a lot back then. I still remember tho how scary was to fight an IS-3/6 tank in those days

[heavy crown]

People would've run the is 3 defender then. They could've grinded thousands of battles and still perform good in it cause of how good it was

[sleek grove]

Is3d was actually good back then, new defenders are meh, besides centurion, which is just above meh

[remote oriole]

The thing was like the non-plus-ultra at tier eight. But the powercreep overtook it

[fickle light]

Buff obj263 side armor from 100mm to 120mm. The fact that a tank that supposed to play aggresively or semi-aggresive and having no turret, which caused itself have to turn the whole body, exposing the side as an easy target. Or just ignore all i said above, give it 100HP buff

[hearty steeple]

263 is fine. If anything, nerf something and give back it's snapshot capability back

[viscid jay]

Man how old is blitz at this point?

[fickle light]

Personally, i think 263 gun is fine, its just need a bit buff of survivablity

[remote oriole]

7.5 years

[stuck acorn]

it has it now after changes. It's fine. The nerf on the accuracy was a little bit to hard tho imo

[lucid lotus]

"worse armor but better mobility" there's your answer to a multitude of tanks. Dont blatantly ask for every tank to have 60kmh mobility, 500mm frontal armor, 1000 alpha, 4000 dpm, 99% camo rating and 500 view range. It's especially silly to ask for more armor on Emil 1951, its faster because it has less armor.

[real bison]

https://tenor.com/view/growing-old-getting-old-grow-old-old-man-becoming-old-gif-17885988

damn...

[hard fable]

How Bout no more bots??

[quick lichen]

That has nothing to do with tank balance

[stuck acorn]

What you say is correct, but Panther M10 actually could use a buff, as it's a horrendous tank that nobody plays

👶🧒🧑👦👨‍🦰👨👨‍🦳👴

[prisma jetty]

I suggest to give the Panther/M10 the armor of the unnerfed Panther by giving it spaced armor every where, and then give it a bit of a gun buff. Then you can choose the tech tree, which will be a bit faster and have the long 75, but less armor, or you can buy the premium version and get more armor but slightly less mobility and a slightly worse gun

[upbeat sphinx]

buff old tier 7 tech tree mediums. T 20, T 43 and Panther cannot compete with newer mediums in nothing. Not a surprise no one is playing them.

[nimble zodiac]

Panther has been kept in shape 🤨

@sleek grove doesn't justify buffing it, since Annishers are OP

[neat crescent]

Man prob hasn't touched it in a few updates

[sleek grove]

Who would tho?
Poor tank has to face tanks like ani and smashers, I'd do anything to avoid those tiers on a grinding spree

[flat nova]

I SUGGEST that the SVEAR NEEDS more AMMO CAPACITY so it can dealt more dmg. In its current state the ammo capacity is so low that almost every battle I played, I spent all firing it without knowing how many ammo I have left.

[winter heron]

Huh? The Svear has an ammo capacity of 35 and a reload time of 9.5 seconds. If you were to fire continuously from the start of the game, it would take you 5.5 minutes to run out of shells (and that's firing continuously, so in a real game it would last way longer). That's more than enough. You're doing something wrong.

[versed tide]

Cent mk1 is one of the best t8 meds imo

[cursive ocean]

Hm

[mental pasture]

I guess he's talking about more ammo to have a better ammo layout in AP, APCR and HE numbers

Like in Emil 1951 or almost every fast shot gun, you're not supposed to somehow shot 90 times, but 90 bullets is enough to distribute well your ammo

[quasi axle]

what?

[winter heron]

Use a ping or reply to get someone's attention.
I hate to nitpick, but (N/A) is "not applicable", I'm guessing you meant (NA) for "North America". It's a small thing, but in the context of an already confusing message, it just makes things really unintelligible

[nimble zodiac]

So uh, what does this have to do with tank balance?

[winter heron]

Aside from your messages being unintelligible, this is #tank-balance-discussion, where we discuss statistics and characteristics of tanks purporting to the balance of the game.

I have to ask, and I mean this in a non-offensive way, (I'm actually worried) but are you okay? You seem... Intoxicated, to be blunt.

[flat nova]

Thank you for elaborating it! At least 45 or 50 ammo capacity for it to have more apcr and he. Because my ammo loadout is 20 on AP, 15 on APCR, and 0 on HE

[weary shuttle]

Wargaming please, fix the match maker at once

[wide dawn]

Bigua1982 please, prove that the MM is rigged first at once

[mental pasture]

This is trully something worth to talk. How can a gun with 155mm pen with AP carry only 35 ammo? You're more likely to bring only AP and prammo because there will be no space for HE. If I was you I'd remove 5 APCR in order to end it all with 5 HE, but 20/10/5 remains a poor layout for a low pen 105mm gun.
Meanwhile Svear carries only 35, there are tanks like E100 that doesn't even shot 7 times a battle most of times but can carry 50 ammo

[neat crescent]

It is also a BIGGER tank thus being CAPABLE to holding said amounts of ammo unlike smaller tanks, space management and shell sizes sometimes don't help but I guess a tank like svear should def have extra ammo considering it's not bound to being a real tank

[mental pasture]

Logic isn't a problem here, we're playing WoT Blitz, not Post Scriptum.
The double barreled cannon breech of Helsing probably occupies 1/3 of the whole turret, there's also crew members there and furthermore; 100 90mm bullets

Meanwhile Svear can't even carry more than 35 bullets.

[neat crescent]

https://tenor.com/view/tank-world-of-tank-wargaming-tankopter-ms1-gif-19911131

[mental pasture]

You've got the spirit

[tulip escarp]

Solution, decide what ammo is more valuable to carry

[surreal rivet]

Ez if you run outta ammo just ram 😎

[sleek grove]

Ammo isn't stored all in the turret, most of its stored in the hull

[winged barn]

Allow me to introduce you to the t34 3

[sleek grove]

UnIronically the only tank I haven't had any ammo problems is 60tp 💀

[winter heron]

Lmao

[stuck acorn]

well, HE on 60TP is trash so you don't need to carry much 1-3 is enough and split rest between HEAT and AP. That's all. With 15 sec of reload it's more than enough

[sleek grove]

HE may not raise to 150mm gun standards but there are plentyful tanks at t9 and t10 that can use a spanking from 60tp HE , increased module damage and the extra chance to absolutely destroy its internals with that shot

[stuck acorn]

for now 60TP is totally OP so there is no point in buffing it, but if it would get some nerf they could give it some better HE alpha in return. It may be too good etc, but these HE are just pathetic for the 15cm gun

[upbeat sphinx]

Why the penetration on tier 7 mediums sucks?
The only exception is panther, which features 198mm without Cali, the rest features 160 less or below. That's almost tier 6 medium pen. Pudel, Bretagne Panther, and the other German mediums at tier 6 have around 150mm/200mm respectively for normal and premium shells, quite similar to tier 7 counterparts. It's just hard to play in that tier alone for stupid op tanks, and low penetration does not help

[stuck acorn]

Well this low pen used to be a balancing factor of T7 mediums. Now it kinda became their unbalancing factor that makes them bad. The problem aren't T7 mediums alone tho, but overbuffed T7 heavies + OP haloween tonks.

Solution is simple. Nerf smasher and anni so you won't need to overbuff other tanks to compete them and then nerf those that you already overbuffed

[mental pasture]

This funnily enough isn't a problem for a lot of tanks, even with bigger calibers and bigger reloads like Obj 268.
It have enormous penetration numbers so you actually don't need to carry more than 5 prammo

[sleek grove]

t34 at t8 which only has 2 gold rounds bc it has enough pen for t10 standards

[modest atlas]

GUYS what is IS-5 price??

[stuck acorn]

wrong channel (it's 1500 gold)

[flat nova]

Is it worth it to give the IS-4 a 440 alpha or nah?

[nimble zodiac]

Won't change that much

[quick lichen]

Why does it need that?

[leaden flare]

because the short 3 or 4 year IS-4 meta is over xD
cant let that happen can we?

[quick lichen]

Right. Half of blitz’ existence

And 2/3 of comp existence

[unique scaffold]

Every single aspect of the Panther M10 is worse than the tech tree panther except for the power-to-weight, which is 17.17 for the Panther and 19.29 for the M10 (hardly a justifiable difference). The M10 gun has only 160 pen whereas the Panther has 198, but the guns are otherwise identical in specs. Though the visual model of the M10 has spaced armor everywhere, the vehicle has no actual spaced armor, but that's hardly the first time WG has made the cosmetics of the game horribly incorrect for value models (just look at the gun on the FV4005 and realize that it's cosmetically a 183mm because in real life the 4005 had the 183mm, not the FV 215b (183)). The M10 has significantly worse armor, even though it should have spaced armor over nearly the entire tank. Most erroneous of this lack of armor is the turret, which again is cosmetically covered in spaced armor, but only has 105mm of armor where the Panther has 168mm (I only bring this up because I have been penned by AP shells directly on the mantlet which should not happen. All I am saying is that the vehicle should have at least some spaced armor, or it should have the same penetration/armor values as the TT Panther (it does cost money after all).

[sleek grove]

oh no, a premium tank worse than its tech tree counterpart.
how could that happen
visible frustration
projectile vomiting from frustration
incontrolable anger caused by frustration

[real bison]

quick FYI

the spaced armour on the M10 barely changes anything on PC

[teal crystal]

can enrichment get some actual balancing? I remember being able to do 2.5K dmg on average and earn 50+K credits, now that's down to 30K at most with no prammo

oh, and this is with premium time, 1300 days of it

further edit, this is on balanced tanks, tanks no one drives such as the AMX 50 100

[winged barn]

Openly trash tanks are just as poorly balanced as openly broken tanks

The only difference is one gets spammed and another is never seen

[twin egret]

LTP carries 100 rounds
Thr Valentine II carries 50
Both have the same gun, and the valentine is much bigger
Russian Bias confirmed

[leaden flare]

you know that your base credit coeff changed with the credit rework
enriching now is basically pointless due to your credit earning depending on medals and masterys

[serene lance]

U reminded me about V2... I sure miss the valentine 2 battle against tier 3 that gets you Hella tons of bounces

[outer glen]

Wg should give sta1 55km max speed imo 45km feels like playing centurion without the turret armor lol and HE able everywhere
Also buff the dpm and the engine literally sluggish for a paper medium
And buff the 215b lol

[unique scaffold]

PC and blitz are completely different games. They look similar, sure, but the similarities begin and end there. The assets are different, the game modes are different, the stats are different, etc. But, most of all, the play style is entirely different because of the larger nature of the game as a whole, which means the vehicles and their performance shouldn't really be compared across games. WoT PC and Blitz are not the same game and should not be treated as such. While the spaced armor may not be very effective on PC, there is little reason to believe it would have the same impact in blitz given that blitz has vastly different vehicles and is made by a different group of devs who, again, don't use PC assets and stats. Not to mention you provide no metric for that claim. Either way, the tank is in serious need of a buff on Blitz. The M10 is more comparable to the Comet than it is the Panther, but I'm sure anyone would agree that the Comet is more fun to play than the M10. Which is a shame because historically the M10 is very interesting.

[real bison]

All of the spaced plates are just 5mm screens

Don’t compare their top guns either.

An L/70 vs a L/100

You can just use the L/70 on the Panther if you want a fairer comparison

Also, most tanks in the game are taken straight from WoTPC’s pre-HD era

[stuck acorn]

Bruh. It's not about being a premium anymore. Panther M10 is just simply trash. Prems are obviously meant to be worse than tech trees, but not completly useless. Just make it balanced. Worse than panther but still worth playing

[cunning bronze]

Looks the part as well

[gleaming apex]

Jedenasty222/TrollekPL#0023 has been warned.

[drowsy plaza]

This room isn’t for discussion of the special game modes. They all have their own areas, and they don’t relate to the core game balancing issues.

[teal crystal]

also can T-34-2 and ISU-122S get a higher shell capacity? I often find myself running dry after smacking down 6 tanks

[nimble zodiac]

Well you see, you’re not really supposed to be a one-tank army

I get it, unreliable teammates, but this is a 7v7, you work as a team. If you have a worse team, you lose, that’s how it’s supposed to be.

[quasi axle]

just increase ammo capacity then so you can carry harder 🤷‍♂️

[terse tinsel]

increase ammo capacity for t69, german bulldog and t54e1 too

[winged barn]

Lol
The worst ones when it comes to ammo capacity to shell usage haven't been mentioned yet
Type 59 and m4 fl10

[sleek grove]

Bro istg I always try to get as much prammo on Fl10 bc ik I'll run out of standard anyway, so I just refuse to take HE cause it's pen is meh anyway

[cursive schooner]

German bulldog has well enough even if you’re using 10 he or so

[twin egret]

Why does WG choose to not have certain things be considered as spaced armour? The chieftain mk 6's side box for example, or the Churchill GC box, or the two tool boxes on the sides of the FV4202's turret

[elfin wing]

Are you sure they have enough thickness to work as a spaced armor?

A little research may help btw, it is not just "a layer outside of the tank which has some space as well"

[remote oriole]

Because it‘s decoration, not armour. Especially in regards to attachments it doesn‘t make sense to give decoration armour values.

And regardless, it just makes a mess on the armour highlighter for no good reason

[nimble zodiac]

Kryos's armor is already messed up because of the rear

[twin egret]

I'm pretty sure, I think theres a few tanks with 4mm or less thick spaced armour.

[nimble zodiac]

Lycan with 400mm:

[elfin wing]

Like what? And 5 mm plate is "used" in pz4 irl, is that one of your "thoughts"? It is all about incoming shell and the distance between "plates" (not all about, whatever). If you give specific examples based on reality (if possible), it might be better.

Btw is that "cage-like" stuff at the back of t10 heavy fv215b can work as a spaced armor if the shooter is sooo unlucky? That think like some of the "protective stuff". (I dont say "it should be", just asking)

[wicked quest]

Like earlier people complaining about panther should have “spaced” armor when in reality the make up armor is sheet metal it’s literal tissue paper Storage boxes and Esc aren’t made of the same plate or metallurgy as the hull (excluding the Soviets)

[cursive schooner]

It’s wgs decisions. The grille turret also got spaced armour in the visual model but not the actual armour model

[outer radish]

Type 59 Buff?

[foggy aurora]

The cage like stuff or the basket in this case can actually be used as spaced armor irl since there is such things called fence armor or slat armor which has a similar kind of look and would actually pre-detonate shaped/high explosive charges

[elfin wing]

Yes, i read and saw stuff like that thats why i asked. It is kind of protection yet i guess they have no effect in game (again, i didnt say it should be)

[outer glen]

Its sad to see sta1 left behind in 8.5 buffs for tier8s but it doesnt get any buffs and WHY?

[low wolf]

The tank is is forgotten by wg

[next quail]

M 10 is from the first batch of prems in the game. I dont think it ever got buffed. It just got powercreeped by other premium or tech tree meds light etc. The same story with comet: it got powercreeped. 140mm ap pen in tier 7 is just trash, same for the 202 apcr pen. Now in tier 6 there are heavy/lights/meds tanks that have more pen than the comet. Example: 40tp has 150/160 ap pen.

[full token]

its been buffed in recent times but so have other tanks

[young atlas]

Wargaming rather makes new good premium tanks than buffing old ones like m10 becouse a lot of people already have these old tanks and wargaming can make a lot more money by selling new ones that no one got

[quick lichen]

How many people do you think buy a 7+ year old tank every month?

It makes more sense for them to add a new tank and sell exponentially more

[unique scaffold]

I agree with you. It's sad really. I remember when the Comet was first released, and I had so much fun with that thing. Same with the TT Panther and M10. That was back when the only "OP" tanks were the Dracula, Tankenstien, and Helsing.

[upbeat sphinx]

Tier 7 is ruined so don't buy premiums.
Or else I would ask for a refund

[next quail]

You get used with tier 7

[flat nova]

I think they lied about giving t54e1 more ammo. Or is it just me? Some leakers stated that T54E1's 105mm is receiving more shells (increasing to 45/45 ammo capacity) this was a few updates ago.

[terse tinsel]

they said they were gonna work on adding more shells to tanks, but only the hellcat got additional shells i think.

[vague nimbus]

hellcat didnt got any new shells wdym

[sharp saddle]

Ammo capacity

[terse tinsel]

it got a few more shells iirc not new types of shells

[uneven narwhal]

Lol Crusader

Ah man know that feeling

[drowsy plaza]

Haven’t had coffee yet

[gleaming apex]

Giulione#8761 was muted

[next quail]

Balance idea: every tank ammo capacity to be capped at 6 or 6+minutes(so tanks that already have a bit more than 6 to not get a shell or 2 in minus) of continously shooting. It wont really affect the meta because not really ammo capacity matters in a 1v1 but in a clutch sometimes matters.

[mental pasture]

In some tanks, the lack of ammo is a balance factor.
You'll worry much more about when to shot a HE when you barely carry enough HE.

[twilit crystal]

honestly using ammo as a balance factor is silly.

[oak marlin]

^

[quasi axle]

It's not an intended balancing factor, when people complained about hellcat ammo wg increased it

[sleek grove]

Oh yeah let's increase ammo to all tanks so we have one less tactical thinking to do
When I'm playing t57 I always keep an eye on my ammo to not run out soon

[winter heron]

If you're disappointed, that's what you get for using leaks as a source of information. WG is the only definitive source of information on what is coming in updates. If you follow leaks and rumors, you're only going to be frustrated and disappointed

[next quail]

If you dont like the idea, ok its just an idea

[nimble zodiac]

If you need that much ammo to do that job you're probably meant to lose with your bad team 🙂

[twilit crystal]

like the idea that balancing a tank by limit the very best games people have is just unfun

[remote oriole]

There is no reason to be against giving all tanks sufficient ammo supply. It‘s hardly a tactical element of the game (and at most an unnecessary cause of frustration) and really shouldn‘t be, as your ability to come out on top of a situation should not depend on how much you fought beforehand or how much ammo you have left, but personal skill

[quasi axle]

^
Idk why you guys want to prevent people from carrying their team
Kinda dumb

[twilit crystal]

well technically HP matters but that is different as it is a good move to conserve HP. It is not a good move to be "conserving ammo"

[sleek grove]

Having limited ammo will make u think 3 times before u do something and more likely when u will have enough ammo to kill 4 teams, you'll take more risky shots

[distant river]

And that's a good idea for some tanks not all because...?

[nimble zodiac]

Laziness

[sleek grove]

I honestly never needed more ammo, the only tank that needed it was 183 when he got a few extra.
In that patch they gave wz113 more ammo too, that to this day I still don't run out of.
SMH ppl want to make this game easier and easier.
What's next?
No module damage because it's hard to press the repair kit?

[remote oriole]

It doesn‘t really make the game easy to have enough munition to be prepared for all game situations. In some tanks you currently have to compromise between a loadout for a +1 game and a loadout for a -1 game.

I don‘t see why giving people enough ammunition to have a loadout suitable for all games makes the game easier, it just means that you don‘t have to gamble on what kind of match you‘ll face next.

Limited ammo does not add a tactical component because you will shoot the correct ammo type regardless, just that you might run out and eventually have to use the wrong ammo type because otherwise it would be too easy?

Edit: Reading through this post, it’s written horribly, but at least it represents my incomprehension for the „argument“ that it would make the game easier

Well, the thing is that you cannot load the right ammo for all situations because you literally don‘t have enough 🙃

I‘m actually so annoyed by this, we are literally arguing over a quality of life improvement that has practically no impact on the game, and people say no because apparently having a good quality of life in a game is too easy, suffering is the way to go or smth idk

[oak marlin]

or you just learn how to load the right ammo for all situations since that’s a factor of playing the game

[unique scaffold]

Can you add a method for adjusting zoom on mobile platforms? playing on a phone is nearly impossible with the new graphics.

[neat crescent]

I mean...there have been times when they though of adding free meals at schools or reducing food price, increase of better healthcare in the US or cheaper and people complained saying it would.make poor people go to hospitals more....bruh(and the same for kids who can't even eat during breaks at school,etc ), anyway please don't delete, this isn't politics or anything like that

[quasi axle]

💀

[distant river]

You missed the question :)
Making it so you occasionally can't pen tanks because you didn't sit back and not shoot anyone all game isn't a good thing, and it's not making things that much easier is it? As you said you don't need more ammo, but for those who do...?

[obtuse sentinel]

I honestly dislike the argument of "Because I don't need it, nobody does." Increasing the ammo capacity for tanks with a low ammo count won't significantly affect the tank anyways, but will allow players to be more confident in their ammo selection choices rather than save and conserve their ammo and be more reliable for the team overall. Also you didn't answer this earlier so I'll repeat the question that you seemed to ignore: "Why should some tanks have a large overall ammo pool while some have next to none? Why hold a tank back with something so trivial?" Maybe certain tanks should have limited ammo capacity (eg. see Fv215B 183 and Jagdpanzer E-100) but tanks with small caliber guns and decent rof should have enough ammo where players don't need to have most of their load out comprising of gold ammo just so they can perform effectively.

[rare sleet]

it doesn't need a buff its not bad but not great maybe a bit bland but there are definitely other t8s that are worse

[drowsy plaza]

Depends by what one means by sufficient ammo. Tanks can realistically only carry a certain amount. Limiting ammo is useful in more ways as it forces someone to think about how they will allocate types of ammo in their tank, rather than just clicking over to a different type whenever they want.

[elfin wing]

<@&481447501690568709> nitro stuff

[stuck acorn]

It did. They gave it 5 more shells if i remember correcty

[mental pasture]

It seems that they changed the link of the scam

[vague nimbus]

twas my mistake on my side that i thought the hellcat got new shell types

[neat crescent]

I need confirmation i think I'm not imagining this, but 60TPs hatch was bigger/taller before some update or change right? It seems to have gotten smaller now but I remember using that to spot over some.objects before

[sleek grove]

Facts, ppl just became lazy, telling you, in some time they will want automatic module repair cause it takes time to press a button

[uneven narwhal]

People running Fire Extin instead of MultiPurpose Repair be like

[sleek grove]

Ngl in my first 4 years or sum I used to run fire extinguisher instead of adrenaline/speed boost.
Not I'm a changed man, changed for the better.
Plus I have the fire skill to max so it's like 3-4ticks of dmg anyway💀 💀 💀

[leaden holly]

<@&481447501690568709> 👆

[gleaming apex]

kebab#9111 has been warned.

kebab#9111 has been warned.

kebab#9111 was banned

[uneven narwhal]

Ban speedrun any%

[remote oriole]

I rather want people to use the correct type of ammo at the right time than just shooting Standard/ Prammo because they can‘t afford to take enough HE.

What you describe as thinking or skill is actually just a limiting factor that reduces your ability to apply your skill. Another example aside from the one mentioned above is that you can‘t make use of your fast reactions because snapping is too risky due to your limited shell supply.

And honestly, thinking of when to shoot… it‘s really not that amazing of a skill to justify not letting people have massive damage games or not letting people have enough ammo to shoot whatever type of ammo they want to shoot whenever they want to shoot it

Oh yeah and just a side note, automated consumables are such a poor comparison because they actually have a massive impact on the game while more ammo only removes a selected few very specific situations that shouldn‘t even happen in the first place

[distant river]

Basically for ammo you want to have something that isn't so large you don't need to think about ammo loadouts (T22 is the first one that comes to mind), then then also something that doesn't mean you have to sacrifice playstyle on good games.

And as said above, ignoring questions and repeating the same over-exaggerated "example" is not helpful to the channel in the slightest

[minor minnow]

Not entirely related but the tanks like the T-22 and T-34-3 have no business carrying 90 shells

[sleek grove]

Meanwhile e100 and maus with enough shells to carry 3 teams.
It's all proportional to their sizes.
Ammo is also stored in the hull.

[drowsy plaza]

@remote oriole you made my point. You need to think about how many of each type of ammunition you should carry. Allowing someone to carry 30 APCR, 30 HESH and 30 HE in something like the 7/1 wouldn’t make anyone think. The same would apply if you let someone have APCR/HEAT/HE in effectively unlimited numbers. Ammunition changing in Blitz is already way to easy - not limiting ammo in a reasonable manner is just silly.

[quasi axle]

💀

[leaden flare]

Yeah but then that should apply to all tanks making every single tank almost running out of a certain ammo type

I've had several games where I ran out of AP on tanks like type 59 and even some heavys

So remove the huge ammo pool from all tanks except the ones that already struggle or else thats a slightly unfair Advantage because you don't have to think about your ammo setup
As you said

[remote oriole]

Interesting that you think that I made your point.

I don‘t know why it should be that much of an incredible and desirable skill to get the most suitable setup for ammunition.

It‘s a simple case of playing a game and then adjusting it according to what you needed, then repeat. I just don‘t see what that adds to the game.

Meanwhile it is obvious that picking the right ammo for the right situation is a skill that saves you time in battle, as you won‘t have to check the hitskin. It‘s also a skill that gives you extra damage and one that actually needs experience, knowledge and reactions - unlike the adjustment of ammo loadouts.

This isn‘t some school lesson where it’s didactically smart to make people „think“ over useless matters.

I also want to note that saving a shell won‘t do you much good, because the enemy won‘t lose any hp if you don‘t shoot. Whether you shoot them now or later doesn‘t matter, and you are actively hindering your team early on just because you have to speculate on your possible survival and lack of shell later on. Limiting ammo basically forces you to gamble all game long.

If you want people to play far sighted, we already have hp which do a lot better job at making people play smart because they don‘t depend on random actions (how are you supposed to know if you need HE later on in the battle unless you force it? But everyone can estimate how much HP they still need to have a decent chance).
Aside from hp doing a better job at it, limiting ammo supply doesn‘t even force you to play better until you reach a certain skill level where it just soft-caps you because now you also need to consider ammo supply in battle while hp always remain important to any player. (The reason for this is that bad players just don‘t get to shoot often enough to ever run into issues regardless of the ammo limit).

And that is being generous and assuming that it really matters often enough to have any meaningful impact aside from annoying players.

[nimble zodiac]

I do recall a game in my LTTB where I spent all of my AP/APCR shells, and had to deal with a KV-3 using HE only.

While a bit panicking, in the end I had teammates to take the KV-3 down. I really think Blitz is losing a big part of the 7v7 teamfights. Sure, in tournaments and organized battles it really is a team fight, but in random battles, it's like fighting 7 tanks by yourself while you have some sacks of HP wandering around as cannon fodder.

For most tanks this will never be an issue, disregarding irresponsible ammunition loadouts. If I wanted anything changed in relation to ammunition capacity, it'd be an increased capacity in cases like Uprising or Mad Games, where you're either dealing with more effective HP than usual (armor regenerator), or triple the HP pool to deal with, stacked on top (three lives, time jump).

[quick lichen]

He does more damage tho

[winged barn]

Big brain time

[full token]

More likely to knock out the ammorack too

[outer glen]

Wg clowning sta1
It didnt get any buff in 8.5
Not getting buff in 8.7 even type61 is getting a buff

My suggestion for sta1
Buff the max speed and engine to 55km
Dpm should be better maybe +200
And a little bit armor on the turret it shouldn't get HEd at the front

[outer glen]

This tank is just sad now

[neat crescent]

You really love the STA 1 don't ya

[full token]

8.7 focuses more on the tier 9s. Maybe the next update is for the tier 8s, maybe not

[stuck acorn]

not really. 8.5 was for T8s. They totally left that tank behind tho. Even centurion 1 and pershing after all these years got buffed. Meanwhile STA is just lying somewhere in the old basement with T28 prot and T69

[sleek grove]

t69 still going strong wym

[outer glen]

No it just a sad tank that got left behind

[uneven narwhal]

47.88% WR
Not great, not terrible

[sleek grove]

its ✨ balanced ✨
something that is a taboo these days in WoTB

[upbeat sphinx]

Arguably better than Skoda t 27, and it has DPM too. 2.3k for an autoloader is good, and unlike Skoda you get 250mm pen with heat which is far superior to 237mm apcr

[nimble zodiac]

Not far superior at all, given APCR can penetrate plates that may be just as effective against its HEAT

Skoda T 27 also has a valuably short interclip, dumping 660 in the span of 3 seconds

[tulip escarp]

Apcr is better

[neat crescent]

Depends really on the situation

[sleek grove]

HEAT is better as prammo, where thick and angled armor is involved

[uneven narwhal]

If both rounds have the same penetration, APCR is better in objectively every situation except at angles 70-85
But in a 15deg advantage out of the 90 degree angles of impact, it really doesn't cut it

APCR has higher shell velocity, ability to not have spaced armor and external modules affect it as much, passes through destructibles with no issues as well, 2CR and 3CR, 2 degrees of normalization

[nimble zodiac]

HEAT is worse against angled armor unless it's past 70 degrees where AP and APCR can't penetrate without overmatching

[stuck acorn]

About T69 i don't mean it being bad. I mean that nobody plays it as there is no point to do that. Why would you go for T69 when you can get 2 tier X including the T57 by going for light tanks. Which also include the fun factor. Nearly everybody would choose T49 over it.

I think that they should make impossibe to research T54E1 trough T49. I don't see any poin of this connection. Ik that it's here because t49 leaded onky to T54E1 when there was no sheridan, but they could finally remove that.

I have nothing against connections between different lines like for example from Tiger P to ferdinand or from T28 prot to T28, but this one just doesn't have a point. unlike the others this one totally ruins the point of T69 line and doesn't even make sense as T49 have totally different playstyle than T54E1. They aren't even close to being similar.

[mental pasture]

I think that the relation of Emil 1 and Emil 1951 should be the like a "template" for other premiums.

For those who don't know, Emil 1951 is a way faster Emil 1 with also more penetration, but 10 less alpha and way less turret and side armor

Both are very good and balanced, different enough to have variety strategies to play, and equal enough to be balanced

Ah yes@neat crescent

[neat crescent]

Actually it's just 10 less alpha

[oak marlin]

or you just pen more shots. or take a more efficient amount of ammo. like on lights meds if it isn’t hesh i would take around 5-7 HE maximum unless like it’s a 3 shot auto loader you can possibly take 9 if you feel it is necessary

then just split your pramo and standard rounds by like idk 5-10 more standard than prem rounds? if you’re an auto loader maybe take 2-3 more clips of standard than prem. it’s just what works for me but i don’t think they should punish all tanks ammo just to fix a smaller minority of tanks that have the issue. just buff the ammo count if you want change no reason to nerf it.

[novel mortar]

Dear WG Team. 🙂 I would be really happy if you could nerf the T22. It has to many strengths in my opinion..
It can keep its troll armour.. but therefore you should really bring the DPM down or alpha, or accuracy…

[winter heron]

As a general policy, they tend not to nerf premium or collector tanks. It's a security for the people that buy a tank to know that what they buy will remain the same for the foreseeable future without the threat of getting nerfed into oblivion.

Plus, the T22 isn't even that strong. Sure the DPM is good, but the alpha is tied for the weakest at tier 10, the armor isn't great if you just aim at the massive weak points, and the fun depression is bad at 6 degrees.

I think you suffer from a skill issue.

[novel mortar]

Im a absolutely average player (55 WR/ Last 30 days 58). And I totally agree that my skills are limited. But since I count as average I think my opinion should matter.. and I experienced it as a Game changing tank.

[neat crescent]

You could also try growing to adapt to such a tank and learning how to deal with it, t22s only redeeming feature over most meds is the traingular armor profile, the armor isn't even that amazing against high pen apcr rounds though most low pen ap tanks and heat rounds will bounce or be absorbed into the side, q good use of ammo and learning proper aiming makes it less of a threat and more of a regular med

[winter heron]

Oh, same for the skill thing. I'm a very average player, and I'm telling you that the T22 really isn't that big of a problem. I've already walked though the list of flaws it has, which you promptly ignored. It's certainly not a "game changing tank".

[oak marlin]

the t22 isn’t that strong even though people use it in comp. i don’t personally but monkey clans do xd

[novel mortar]

Would make me wonder if im the only one with that opinion. But ok.. it is what it is then…

[winter heron]

Yeah, it seems like you're the only one with this opinion. As @neat crescent said, you need to adapt to different tanks as the game changes, rather than just asking that things get nerfed just because you feel like it.

[regal grove]

T-22 is troll but is not game changing
20k gold could be spent somewhere else since there’s a lot better mediums suited for a brawler and cavalry role

[novel mortar]

Just stop pretending you know it all. There is definitely a bigger group of people who feel like me. You act like someone who makes decisions here. It’s a discussion group.

[winter heron]

Fair enough. Just saying, you're the only one here who feels it need a nerf.

[outer glen]

Buff the sta1 to 55km max speed and 2.5k or 2.4k dpm

[nimble zodiac]

Oh no they have started the Day 1 loop

[full token]

day 2 of asking for sta1 buff

[orchid grove]

No, no, he’s right. T-22 needs a nerf. A tank with heavy tank levels of armor should not also have medium tank DPM and medium tank mobility. People act like the hull is the only thing that matters and have completely forgotten the tank also has an invincible turret too

[novel mortar]

Yes it seems like. So I will adapt. Since you mentioned that Wg won’t make changes on premiums/awards it makes no sense to argue about this. Nothing to bad mate. Thanks for your input.
But I still think there is a wider spectrum of people. Especially without your skills (I suppose you are unicum) like me.

[winter heron]

Thanks for being reasonable, I know it's not always easy to adapt to the changing game, but it's something we all have to do.

And by the way, I'm no where close to being unicum, my 30d WR is somewhere around 55.

[distant river]

Skill issue smh posit1ve just sucks (obviously /s)

[remote oriole]

For all non-internet fluent people, /s means /serious (/ because that‘s how reddit channels start which is where the shortcut first came from) /s

[winter heron]

While it's true that the turret is quite good, it also has only 6 degrees of gun depression, which means that you have to expose your hull one way or another to play hulldown. The hull is weak, so long as you aim your shots. I do agree that the DPM is a little high, but given the low alpha and low ap pen, it's not so unreasonable that it deserves a nerf. It's also a really big tank, relative to other mediums, making it an easier target.

[sleek grove]

Imo it either has been shadow nerfed or it is going thru powercrep cause it hasn't been as good as it was when I came out

[remote oriole]

Actually a bit of both, but mainly powercreep

[stuck acorn]

both. It got remodeled which decreased it's armor angles and it's effectivenes

[scarlet fjord]

i just want WG to buff the BL-9 to the point where i can call that tank a heavium
heaviums are supposed to have really nice guns
and the IS-3 is just meh

[steep glade]

it is a nice gun

[real bison]

who said that heaviums should have good guns lol

[sleek grove]

Heaviums should have decent all.
No amazing gun
No amazing armor
No amazing speed
Just decent all

[scarlet fjord]

I strongly disagree about that

@real bisonits what makes them viable great mobility mediocre armor (for a heavy) but slightly stronger than and more hp's than meds which it pays for by being slower than meds and having worse camo and gun depression generally speaking
just a good rounder
like the IS-8 it has bad hull armor for a heavy but decent against meds specially the sides those even troll TD's sometimes
but the gun is godly incredible DPM incredible on movement dispersion and TD level of pen for a tier 9 tank that is
or look at the WZ 111-4 the tier 9 chinese heavy
it has very nice on movement dispersion for a tier 9 130 mm gun and decent pen as well not exactly IS-8 level mobility but it has great top speed which it can abuse to ambush players via downhill slopes
if u dont give a heavium a nice gun its not really viable
and even tho the IS-8 to me is an incredible tank most people think its shit and cant play it at all
This is IS-3 gun statistics btw

[steep glade]

its not a heavium

[real bison]

still doesn’t mean that heaviums require good guns

it’s just a thing they happen to mostly have

[sleek grove]

Is3 is an assault tank, it has decent gun with decent armor and good speed to get to its place in time.
It's balanced, actually very balanced and it's been like that for a long time.
Now,get gud

[upbeat sphinx]

btw talking about ammo capacity, dw2 at tier 4 has 87 shells, rate of fire 5.46 per minute so it will take 16 minutes to finish the shells 👀

[scarlet fjord]

lmao 0 argument right there
"get gut" learn to make a proper claim then get better at the actual game then tell ppl to "get gut"
its not a balanced tank its statistics are horrible
specially the hull armor its drowned in buffed tanks and op ones at tier 8 its not performing well
what i was asking is for its underperforming gun< yes its gun is not even average to get buffed so it is above average

[sleek grove]

Wow welcome to powercrep episode 13,where we now discus how new meta changes and new lines added made Is3 just a fragment of what it used to be.
Wow, maybe actually get gud in it as it has an average wr of 49.88.
Maybe it's just that u don't play it well and u don't use its COMPLETELY impenetrable turret to its strength.
Maybe u don't use its speed to get in key positions.
Maybe u don't know key positions for that tank, learn them.
Maybe u didn't equip the tank right.
Maybe there's actually skill issue involved.
Who knows.
The tank is balanced.

[scarlet fjord]

so because everything got buffed and has its "impenetrable turret" already with gun depression added to the competitions table
and MOST other statistic being superior on MOST other heavies its a skill issue
i swear you TXC members are just as intolerable in game chat as you are in this discord if you think its a skill issue you have a serious problem called narrow mindedness
i just gave you facts why its its statistics are inferior to its competition and what u give me as feed back is
ah its you not knowing how to be hull down with its impenetrable turret and the 5 degrees of gun depression
do you not see how situational that can be? your hull is useless frontally
hell ur better off turning sideways and pray he shoots the black hole area
and thats the ONLY advantage the tank has and it being situational is a huge red flag

[sleek grove]

Oh wow tanks being situational in 2022, wow.
Welcome to reality, next stop, finding out Is3 is still workable.
Istg man, if ur complaining about Is3, can't wait to see what u gonna say about is8

[scarlet fjord]

ofc its workable every tank is workable in the game how much of an underdog you are is what matters
and i dont find anything needing a change on the IS-8 i think the IS-8 is phenomenal my fav tier 9 tank in the game actually
but hey if you dont want us telling WG what we as the players of a game think needs improving then hell what are you doing in this chat? your words are contradicting your actions
and being situational isn't bad
having 1 good trait or being a 1 trick pony and that trick being situational is bad ur putting words in my mouth as usual TXC members...

[prime oracle]

@sleek grove sush

[remote oriole]

The IS-3 performs above average. And it‘s a well rounded tank. I personally never had problems with it. I hope it stays the way it is and won‘t be unnecessarily buffed, like the IS-7

[neat crescent]

Just saying but as far as I recall, like other strongly armored turrets from meds at t10, the cheek parts can be penned by pramo rounds and some high pen tanks just go through a big part of it 🤔

[scarlet fjord]

its not a useless tank i would say most heavies are better though
and this is coming from a person who adores heaviums specially ones with great turret armor
u can have big games for sure i think the gun needs DPM buff as it is one of the worst in terms of DPM
or just buff the on movement dispersion which is also one of the worst statistics out of all the heavies
it wouldn't hurt anyone tbh

[sleek grove]

oh no, I can't do well in a tank, it surely has to be tanks fault and not mine
Says him with 1k avg in Is3 💀

[prime oracle]

Rip logo

[scarlet fjord]

lmao preconceptions and skulls
fam you're just childish innit 💀

[sleek grove]

Do you need a bo'ol o' wo'ah to chill m8?

[scarlet fjord]

Ayt G

[sleek grove]

Pro Is3 driver 💀

[nimble zodiac]

Well this one’s degraded to Ad Hominem

[scarlet fjord]

flexing ur stats?

[sleek grove]

Forgot to keep the URL in pic, sorry @scarlet fjord, won't happen again

[prime oracle]

Atleast it's 50% rounded up

[clear socket]

Yeah

[scarlet fjord]

that tank hasn't been played since i had 460 battles career and if u can find that acc u can find my stats WN8 from 90 days when i played the game consistently if u can call 200 games over 90 days consistently are you trying to say i am a 1100 WN8 player?
@sleek grove TXC members acting like 14 year olds again
do i seriously need to come back to the game buy back the IS-3 and prove that i can get 3500 WN8 in it minimum?
does that make my opinion or actually the facts more valuable?
did u call your TXC friends to troll like they do in game chat as well? did u get muted for insults in the game so u started doing it on discord 💀
HAH muted for stating facts more like acting like ur whole clan acts in game chat like a 14 year old

[sleek grove]

If u do so good in Is3, then why complain its bad.
Man cmon, I expected more from you

Actually no, I didn't expected more from you, typical R1sk players💀
And I'm done with this convo, don't wanna get muted for stating facts

[prime oracle]

Dam, mah guy wrote an entire paragraph

[scarlet fjord]

cuz i love u Txc members so much couldn't help it

[prime oracle]

Awh Hella cute ❤️, TXC trash clan tho don't even know them

[scarlet fjord]

ikr

[fluid topaz]

Lmao

[scarlet fjord]

fix this then tell other ppl to get good

[neat crescent]

Considering how everyone who farmed the Christmas event in the last 30d , at least avg player dropped from their usual 2k wn8 to 1500-1800 he's still p.good, looking at his other 60-90d stats for comparison, so if I were u i wouldn't be saying that

[scarlet fjord]

2380 is not much different from 2480
u would expect 3k WN8 from someone who is talking smack and telling other ppl to "get good"

[neat crescent]

The amount of players in NA who have a wn8 above 3k, are placed at top 100, starting from 3.4k at lowest so prob 3k being the bottom line somewhere around top 130, you expect someone to be one of the best 150 players in a server with 20k+ players at all time just so they can "talk smack"? Well alright but people don't really need 8k to talk smack since everyone's free to say whatever they must/will as long as it follows server rules, though idk him so I'm just gonna end it here.(this is just gathered from blitz stars so there might be better players or a bigger amount of them 🤔 )

[scarlet fjord]

idk what the difference is but in EU ur considered great at around 3000+ with more than 400 games give or take if the difference is 2400/3000 then sure

[neat crescent]

Not from EU server so 🤷‍♂️ in NA above 2k decent and 2.5k is uni, 3k is a great player for comp and 4k is those YouTubers or people who are good but u prob don't know or never see 🤔 (though among some of these I've found people with up to 70%+ battles in platoons so idk if they're really that skilled or they're riding the bus)

[versed tide]

there are no players with a 4k average in NA. wn8 is a dumb statistic and I have no idea why people base stats around it

[neat crescent]

We're not talking average dmg, it's wn8

[crystal dragon]

pls add 3d models to KV-1S

[frail silo]

he might be good but he is toxic as heck. not even boasting anything exceptional and using a single tank stat as a talking point is 💀

[full token]

That’s usual. His posts have always been worded to evoke a reaction from the target, usually with some insults or ‘you have skill issue’ when he can’t think of anything else

[leaden flare]

Man I really need to get my is 3 back and fix it I bet it not as bad as it's made 😂
For me pulling up the stats of someone in a certain tank isn't an issue it's just showing if a person knows how to play a certain tank or if the person might be doing smth wrong

[safe rapids]

Uh…you mean the KV-1S has a 2D model?
I think you mean the new PBR models. In that case just wait, it’ll come eventually.

[sleek grove]

Finally someone get it, even tho I'm not always like that 🤔.
It's just some ppl have bad opinions, and 99% of the time their problem isn't with the game but rather its a skill problem.
Anyway, I'll keep "wording my posts to evoke a reaction" to those who deserve it.
Have a good day.

[stuck acorn]

Daily reminder that there is no something like "wrong opinion" in this world

[sleek grove]

There are no wrong opinions, there are bad opinions.
Uhhhhhh....lemme give an example.
Buff 113 dpm because every time I shoot it takes more than 5s to reload thus making me inefective for more than 5s.

[remote oriole]

Then there‘s me who operates at 700 WN8 points under his career stats during the last 30 days.

I regret nothing

[sleek grove]

Lmao what's with the clown emote bruh

[leaden flare]

I mean beeing below career isn't that hard espacially if you started when new player mm was a thing
My stats overall for 30d are a lot better than my career just my career stats are on tanks with decent wn8

And imma try is 3 today if I can get around 2,1 or 2,2k it's decent

[remote oriole]

I started ages ago. The truth is just that I play a lot worse now than I used to, primarily because I don‘t care enough anymore 🙃

[full token]

good doesnt mean best, and both are close

[outer glen]

Is3 should get 40km imo but why they nerfing is8 for no reason

[full token]

their new balance system where they fit everything into some roles, with each role having its own set of characteristics. See #devs-answers

[scarlet fjord]

yeah because you with your 2400 WN8 opinion is very much right and a lot of people have "skill issue"
next time you grow up and come back instead of clowning around give an argument instead of "eh ur bad" its literally contributing to nothing ur just being bratty lol

[leaden flare]

He gave arguments before
Gun is decent
Turret is almost invincible
Mobility is decent
Hull is flat

You prob just chose to ignore those because your perception of it is different than his

[sleek grove]

Fr

[scarlet fjord]

i gave u proof its gun is less than average i ignore false claims specially after i refute them
the power to weight is amazing the top speed is 38 which is acceptable if the gun wasn't so below average
I'm sending it again just in case u need to read smt twice to understand it

[sleek grove]

man fr u looked at the gun ONLY and said the tank bad.
take the whole thing as one and then draw conclusions.

with the same principle u say 183 is broken due to its alpha right?

also gun bloom is proportional to tank speed.
as accurate as it isnt , driving at 38km/h will make it bigger

[scarlet fjord]

fam i said the only advantage it had was t he turret
and somewhat the acceleration is also an advantage other than that everything else is below average generally speaking
i prioritize the gun cuz its the most important aspect of a tank imo BY FAR specially for a heavium type
the 38 top speed thing is irrelevant the general gun handling is horrible even if u drive slowly ur bloom is big the argument makes it worse
cuz with bad accuracy while going at 38 ur even less playable
its fine for a russian heavy which it isn't anymore it has no hull armor the others do
and tanks like Celestials make it look like a joke now that tank has a right to have the worst 122 mm but for a HEAVIUM it shouldn't be that bad it should be competing with smaller calibers like the IS-8 is at tier 9

[remote oriole]

Those numbers are a bit misleading.

The gun is fairly average (or close to average) in most characteristics. Especially if you look at tanks with similar caliber the whole situations looks a lot better.

The dpm is standard
The pen is above average
The aim time is below average (shared by at least 7 tanks so eh)
Dispersion is average
Dispersion factors are below average (again at least shared by 6 tanks so…)

The gun really is mostly average, it has some setbacks, but not severe ones, and some advantages, but not great ones either. It‘s perfectly fine

The reason why it looks so horrible in the ranking is because most gun stats are pretty tightly packed around one value (around 0.23 dispersion factors excluding turret for heavies) so it looks a lot worse than it actually is

[sleek grove]

just show him this, cmon, 122mm guns are 122mm guns at the end of the day.
and now, my catchphrase, get gud

[scarlet fjord]

this is what a proper heavium gun stats are
and i cant show the pen there but the pen also it has 340 HEAT and like 260 AP thats like a TD at tier 9
and only autoloaders and tanks like the Conq have more DPM than it which all of them have worse alpha 400 instead of 420 or 350 for the k91
and its like a heavium
mate its dispersion is slightly better and it has worse aim time and horrible disp factors so at the end of the day you basically have a standard 400 alpha gun with slightly bad DPM
again look at the IS-8 gun statistics
and compare it to the IS-3
IS-8 having that gun is way more important than the IS-3 having that turret
Gun > Turret armor by far
if its a heavium it should have better gun handling than the actual heavies its competing against right now

[sleek grove]

man compared a t9 gun to a t8 gun, i think im done with this.
and btw , now u speak out of frustation, we really come with examples that the tank itself is balanced.
just bc u dont do good in it doesnt mean it needs buff

[remote oriole]

I mean, yes, it is in many ways a heavium with its great mobility and relatively weak front hull armour.

But at the same time, this is still tier eight what we‘re talking about. 400 Alpha is still no joke there, and considering the good alpha in combination with the good pen and good mobility, some drawbacks have to be included that go beyond just bad frontal hull armour.

What I see is a well balanced tank, that has a bit of everything: turret armour to bounce shots, alpha and pen to trade and mobility to relocate. It pays with derpy accuracy and poor frontal hull armour. It‘s actually still a bit better than average making it perform (who guessed it) above average, but it‘s a neatly balanced tank.

On a side note, I think the accuracy is absolutely bearable if you don‘t rush shots and take your time to aim when you can. The odd snapshot will hit too, but one shouldn‘t rely on it (and one shouldn‘t be able to rely on it because that would make the tank op, comparable to a Chimera just in cheap)

[scarlet fjord]

compare them to their peers not compare a T9 tank's gun to a tier 8 ur putting words in my mouth

@remote oriolethat would be true a few years ago before WG started buffing tech trees and implementing premiums every month
it would be balanced
but now a 53TP is basically you on steroids and thats a tech tree which is new and should be more fun and more powerful for WG's benefits i get that
and all heavies almost all of them have that 400-460 alpha
only they have superior armor profiles and similar mobility and the strong point of the IS-8 as a heavium is it can actually snapshot you like a med even tho it has 420 alpha I'm not saying IS-3 should be able to snapshot at tier 8 I'm saying it cant even hit accurately for a heavium its like a standard run of the mill heavy tank
I'm comparing it to a the IS-8 tier for tier not tier 9 tank vs tier 8 tank dont misunderstand me

[modest atlas]

New tank pass, kyros is so unbalanced with strong armor and powerful gun

[sleek grove]

<@&481447501690568709> sus nitro

[stuck acorn]

nitro <@&481447501690568709>

[neat crescent]

That link is as fake as being told my dead gramp is alive

[unique scaffold]

Wow...

[gleaming apex]

Help i need my epipen#4302 was banned

[remote oriole]

I have to disagree. It‘s balanced now.

Though it‘s true that the 53TP Markowskiego is stronger, but then again, the Markowskiego is one of the better 122mm heavies.
At this occasion I want to point out that the 53TP is actually not performing that much better than the IS-3, probably due to the turret weakspots and because the hull isn‘t fantastic either, but that‘s besides the point.

Another thing to consider is that tier eight is not an isolated competition of heavies. Most heavies at the tier have a very comfortable position and perform well; and mediums, lights, and tank destroyers have to pay the price.
In the greater picture, the IS-3, despite being in the lower half of heavies at tier eight by performance, is still a good tank that is more than competitive.

Even though it’s true that the IS-3 is not the greatest heavy out there it‘s untrue that it‘s bad or imbalanced, no. Heavies are just generally too strong or op at tier eight.

I maintain that the IS-3 is balanced

I feel like this is a great moment to express my bitterness at Wargaming’s decision to:

1. Not consider performance stats for balancing anymore
2. Spam premium tanks like there’s no tomorrow

The first is just dangerous ignorance at the reality their balancing decisions cause in the game. The narrow-minded class balancing that leaves no space for outliers anymore and thus ruins variety. I don‘t understand what‘s wrong with having a few unconventional tanks in the masses of tanks in the game.

The second is just drowning the game with basically unobtainable tanks, and it‘s essentially unaffordable to be a collector these days. The tiers are already overloaded with tanks and it‘s almost impossible to get to used to tanks and learn their strengths and weaknesses through experience unless you literally play for years. Sooner or later these tanks need to be spread out over more tiers to decrease the load of each tier (great opportunity to right some wrong balance decisions).

[full token]

IS8 😦

[sleek grove]

this is great moment for WG to announce caliban here too, but with a 3 shot 150mm autoreloader , just to make it different from PC

[versed tide]

Most of the recent premiums have been fairly balanced other than the concept; although I don’t think that concept is an op tank.

[main tulip]

The concept is OP, but it's not broken

[scarlet fjord]

Precisely why I dislike the wr stats cuz u said 53tp statistically is not performing as well as IS-3 if I'm not mistaken but every decent player can agree I think you and I as well that the 53TP feels like a tier 8.5 compared to an IS-3

[slate spruce]

ONLY in hulldown

[versed tide]

I feel it’s bit of a one trick pony and is meh to ok in other situations @main tulip

[main tulip]

It's a better medium tank than most heavies if you're forced to play that role. So no, not necessarily one trick imo

[upbeat sphinx]

Last year all the tanks were balanced in the right way. 0bj260 fun to drive but not op whatsoever, 907 same. Tier 8 TD premiums were balance alright, maybe even underpowered like the turtle MK1 and the ts5. Overall 2021 tanks were not too much op, only concept could be above average but definitely not op. I

[sudden path]

Yeah
Wg has gotten better at judging test stats

[fickle light]

Buff obj263 disperson abit so it can land shot more accurate consider how much its move around to perform good in battle

[nimble zodiac]

They intentionally nerfed the dispersion so it would have to play aggressively

[fickle light]

It always meant to play aggressively, i just think that they could undo the disperson nerf, or give it a 3.5s aiming time so you can snapshot on the move

[sudden path]

263 s already really strong it definetly doesbt need a buff

[scarlet fjord]

Problem with 263 generally speaking the devs are kind of afraid of making changes to that tank as ngl I find that thing difficult to balance well at least to them it feels like either it's not good enough or it's too strong they can't find the middle ground so that's why I think it remained overshadowed for such a long time but it's definitely difficult to deal with I don't think u should buff the accuracy

[full token]

But that only says the 53tp is better, not that the is3 performs worse than enough of the tanks around it to need a buff. I think the position it’s in is good. It’s not the worst tank, and it’s not the best tank. More in the middle. Why buff it because it’s not at the level of the better tanks in the tier?

[neat crescent]

Yeah uh, no, btw how to spot fake nitro/link/scams, ALWAYS when they post the account used appears offline and u wont be seeing them go online even after a few hours

[scarlet fjord]

what i meant was i didnt like following buff/nerf patters MAINLY based on general WR because its sometimes inaccurate
cuz the 53TP is much better yet it says it isn't
but in my opinion the IS-3 is slightly weaker compared to most of its heavy competition
if u make the argument its a heavy so its average compared to all classes i cant argue wwith u there cuz tbh its still average vs other classes but against most heavies imo its inferior
i guess what we should be asking for is balancing out the classes
then we can talk about IS-3's balance factor i guess

[full token]

yep, bigger priorities. Tanks like the sta1 and t28 proto are in worse positions

[candid steeple]

I really don't understand what is wrong with WG to give all new lights higher alpha then mediums of the same tier. I really don't know what WG is smoking.

[leaden flare]

they have 350 like the meds the only meds to have less are the russians and yeah a 150 mm will have more than a 100mm gun

[candid steeple]

WG honestly has to change bush mechanic. It's not fun while I can't see through the bush because I am not it in enemy team can still spot me but bush is stopping me form seeing them. I am so sick of this broken mechanics that is making meds and lights so broken. Hey I am shooting behind the bush. Doesn't matter gets spotted. CRINGE. Unbalanced spotting mechanics just ruins the purpose of bushes. Good job WG skill expressed game with hull down meds and lights that you can't pen spotting you behind the bush like no tomorrow. Skill expressing game.

[quasi axle]

The amount of copypastas that write themselves in this channel is impressive

[jagged crescent]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/928760805535645766/928916026266107904/caption.gif

[real bison]

@candid steeple imagine not knowing how bush spotting mechanics work

basically

https://youtu.be/RMF82fz4kDk

[candid steeple]

You just now showed that you are clueless about blitz spotting mechanics. If you had any clue you would know that bushes in blitz just give you slightly more camo and that's it. If you are behind the bush that doesn't make you unspottable. Especially with how unbalanced med and light spotting range is. If they are 200m away form you and you are behind the bush they will spot you. So play go away. Don't try to act smart when you will look more stupid. I am complaining because Blitz spotting is not like in WoT PC. In Blitz spotting is broken because meds and lights make is useless to stand behind a bush. They still got mechanic in blitz to bush block your vision but what is the point of it when enemy can spot you through the bush?

So you really are clueless

[real bison]

and how do you know they only give a higher camo rating?

Say a Vickers Light is 200m from a bush. It is well known that the VL has a viewrange of 290m. Those extra 90 meters of viewrange allows the VL to peer through the bush’s camo bonus

also, are you sure the LT in front of you is the one spotting you? It could be someone else yk?

[leaden flare]

and you showed several times already that u got no clue how to properly play xD

you consider the least dominant classes to be broken when its basically i constant heavy meta everywhere
meds and lights profit from skill and for the avg pleb they are pretty hard to drive
i assume you just take horrible positions and therefor i call it a skill issue or else youd have np problems dealing with lights and meds most of the time espacially in heavys
and another thing the bush only works if there is literally nothing of your tank possibly visible so fully covered if they can see a cupola or anything theyll spot you anyway

[real bison]

29 whole pages filled with complaining about things not many other people complain about

calls me clueless

When.You.Fire.You.Lower.Your.Own.Camo.Rating.

High.Viewrange.Tanks.Can.Leverage.Their.Higher.Viewrange.To.Ignore.The.Concealment.Bonus.A.
Bush.Provides.

And.If.You.Have.Fired.

The.Fact.That.Your.Camo.Rating.Has.Dropped.To.A.Low.Level.Means.That.The.Tank.With.Viewrange.Will.Therefore.Spot.YOU.

[winter heron]

@candid steeple stop arguing and try and learn from the people here. It's okay to admit that you're wrong or that you don't know much about spotting mechanics

[candid steeple]

If you think lights currently and meds are in a weak state please go out. Tanks need more skill but are for more useful. As heavies you most of the time just fight with each other and stall the situation especially with tds from behind. Most of the time it is mediums and lights that come from behind and finish the game. When you are a heavy and you are low on hp and see light or medium still alive in enemy team to defeat. That's the worse thing. Hull down idiot prof with much higher spotting range and with far better accuracy and mobility. I stopped grinding heavies just grinding mediums and lights. I can't enjoy in playing this meta. You take the heavy just so you get flanked by mediums with all now having 3300-3600 dpm. Where is my hp buffs when all mediums got 500 more dpm. At least half of the maps requer medium to sit in mid or some other place or you lose that flank. What's the point of playing a heavy? You are forced to go medium routs because they are 5 times better. If you go heavy route you are just stuck and waiting to get flanked. Maps got too much bias towards mediums.

Why is there more people who don't know how bushes work... You are right pall you people are not worth arguing with since you can't even take time to research how game works. Bruh.

So all in all people in here are people who want meds with 3000+ dpm and more and more turret armor buffs. More mobility and more accuracy. Use broken heavies at the release as excuse that mediums are weak and enjoy when heaviums are gutted to the ground by WG but are okay with premium heaviums running around. All smart people here.

[limber nymph]

Bushes work like in PC. Smaller maps means that it might feel like they give less concealment. The 2 bushes rule still exists. Cheers.

[sleek grove]

Imagine not knowing basic mechanics, smh.
I bet @candid steeple doesn't even know the spotting points of a tank💀

Imagine not knowing the 50m behind the bush mechanism.
Imagine not knowing how spotting works.
Imagine not knowing how camo works.
And yet, instead of being a good boy and listen to others who know, he keeps saying we stupid, damn, what a world we live in

[leaden flare]

hey i invested the time in practising the game instead of wasting my time on pointless stuff like that
and here we are you who supposedly know everything and having no issues at all having a great avg, far above avg and super uni stats

so fill me in who doesnt know how to play me or you ?
if proof of my stats is wanted im willing to provide

an please show me the op hulldown meds except for t-22 all of them have fairly easily hitable weakspots or can just be penned frontally by prammo
also there is plenty very mobile heavys T95e6, 5a, is7 to some extend, 50b and to some extend even a 60tp can keep up fairly well because of its consumables

[real bison]

I wonder why HTs have a higher average winrate than any other class

“When you are on low HP and you see light or mediums still alive in enemy team to defeat”

When you are low HP in anything, that is the worst thing. Not the tank that is going to kill you, but the situation you are in.

“Hulldown idiot proof”

Haven’t seen a medium standard pen a 60TP hulldown head on

Have seen a 60TP pen mediums while they’re hulldown and head on though.

“You are forced to go medium route because they are 5 times better”

Strength in numbers. Why fight a 3v3 when you can fight a 7v3?

EU seems to be the place where this happens most- and good reason, as stated above. You don’t need to follow teams, it’s just safer and less risky to do so

[wicked quest]

Because 60tp being able to move almost 50-40+kph and having 2800 hp with better armor than is4 isn’t broken and btw only a select few meds have 3500*+ dpm T62 140 leopard 1 121 and m48 reach that stb 1 prog tvp and 30 B don’t reach it not to mention their downsides/ Russians have low alpha and need time to put the dpm to work leopard will get deleted if exposed too long m48 can be inaccurate not to mention they will need to load gold. Then again your complaining about camo mechanics when your now complaining heavies suck so it seems we got a maus bush camper here?

[sleek grove]

Imagine he camps in Maus on td bush on canal 💀 💀

[stuck acorn]

i once met toon of mauses in corner bush on dead rail. Maybe it was him

[limber nymph]

'Hulldown idiot proof'
I don't think there's a single medium tank that fits this role. Riz suggested the T-22 as a potential candidate, but I think it's not true. Why's that? Well, because when you go hulldown, you need gun depression. T-22 has a strong turret, but no gun depression. This is a common feat of similiarly built medium tanks.
There are also meds with a lot of gun depression, like the M48 or the STB-1. What's their problem? Their turrets have a ton of weakspots; cheeks, cupolas. Even though they have the gun depression to go hulldown, it's not exactly idiotproof. And they trade the hulldown capabilities with very lightly armoured hulls.
I don't think I even need to mention paper meds like, the Leo 1 or the TVP. they just don't work in hulldown.

The DPM of meds is balanced by their lack of penetration, needing to constantly be exposed to utilise it, and not having a single gamestyle where they're 100% safe from incoming damage.
'Where is my HP buff when all mediums got 500 more dpm'
The HP buff lies in the fact that it's much harder to take that 500hp away from a heavy tank than from a medium. Remember that they're heavies because they're armored, not because they just felt like it. Most meds will get easily penned when shot at, while heavies using their armor correctly can easily tank a few thousand damage without changing positions.

'What's the point of playing a heavy?'
If complete heavies aren't your cup of tea, I suggest playing heaviums like the Chieftain mk. 6 or T92E6. They have great mobility, good DPM with an accurate gun, AND they get the armor and HP of heavy tanks. The perfect combination. Or just go full braindead and spam the 60TP, that works too because the armor is trollishly strong, especially in hulldown, while also having acceptable mobility.

'You are forced to go medium routes'
Why are you forced? Nobody's forcing you. But I would suggest fighting a 7v7, not a 1v7. There are occassions where the whole team goes heavy side, not because it's a 'better' side, but because they want to work as a single unit, not split.

[jagged crescent]

60tp doesn’t go 50 💀💀💀

[quick lichen]

People have way too much free time to type on discord…

[remote oriole]

You think I do that in my free time?

[sleek grove]

I'm doing multiple things at once and none seems to work

[neat crescent]

15m* behind a bush, so that after shooting the after firing camo that u lose doesn't affect your tank IIRC

[real bison]

if you’re 15m behind a bush, you don’t lose the bonus to camo rating the bush gives you

You do lose your own camo, and if there is a tank that can spot through that bush, it will spot you

[remote oriole]

It doesn‘t affect the bush‘s camo

Also, there isn‘t really a double bush rule, it‘s just an effect of the mechanics not a mechanic itself (double bushing is when you hide 15m behind two bushes so you basically never get spotted due to the added camo values)

[sleek grove]

Wow I've lived 7y in lies thinking its 50m instead
I feel so ashamed smh

[minor minnow]

I was never truly aware of the camo bonus because I really don’t play TD’s and I don’t play lights in a campy position ever, but this is great to know because I know I was doing something when a 60TP was spotting my foch like 200-300 meters out

[neat crescent]

Ah so u still lose the tanks camo but the bush camo is unaffected then? I c 🤔 i had it reversed then lol, also no lol 😂@sleek grove don't overreact 15m is a big diff wherever u go between that and 50m, heck a lot of spots would work like :insert poop emoji here: if u had to be that far off from the bush

<@&481447501690568709> discord nitro spam above ^^, thx

[brave dragon]

It must be a 🌕 or 🌡️ 🌨️ :🥶

[fickle light]

I certainly agree, the tank itself is situational. While in city or flat map, it can assert it dominance quite well, hill map on the other hand, made it have to rely on team knowing to push 70% of the time. I thought that something more general as accuracy can be buff a little so it wont change toouch

[night lark]

There appears to be a lot more 0-7,1-6 battles since last 2 updates to changes in matchmaking. Also can their be a least more than 2 lower tier tanks when matched up in a battle

[versed tide]

t100lt has 310 alpha, bat chat 310 alpha, sheridan 560 (derpy gun so bad accuracy), vickers 350 alpha. I'm not exactly sure what light tank you could be talking about other than the lt432. @candid steeple ok but sheridan isn't new; what tank are you even talking about

[candid steeple]

Sheridan has bad accuracy?? Full speed on the move snap a shot and hit. Yeah bad accuracy.

@oak marlin because map is small. That's the reason lights at tier X can scan the entire map and be hard to spot while bush mechanic doesn't work. Fair.

[oak marlin]

stop comparing pc to blitz. you can’t compare the mechanics because blitz is soooo much smaller and a much different game

[versed tide]

the bush mechanics work, I don't think you know how to use them though

[still jolt]

Don't you guys think Kanonenjagdpanzer needs a buff? Better pen and slightly thoicker frontal armor in my opinion would make it good. Now it's hard af to play and you can't do much in it

[versed tide]

kanonen is fine

[silk hamlet]

it doesnt need extra armor, its supposed to be paper

[nimble zodiac]

I’d rather just give more DPM so its weaknesses aren’t too hindering pf the firepower

[outer glen]

Ur not hitting everytime you shoot while moving and only one line light tanks with 560 alpha

[frail silo]

you just got lucky, damn.

[scarlet fjord]

problem is if you buff it to the point where its playable on hilly maps
its too strong in city and flat terrain maps
so thats why WG are having a difficult time balancing out that tank and i honestly dont know how you would buff that tank properly

[waxen coyote]

There's a tank needs buff in my opinion, which is Rhm
The tank is slow... Once you get spotted, be ready to die, especially when opponent team have T49
One slap and ram you're dead.

[frail silo]

so don't get spotted. you have amazing camo values, good prammo pen. and you can just be around your team and not out alone.

[surreal rivet]

Then don't get spotted it has insanely good camo and decent mobility

[winter heron]

This is very true, it's hard to make one aspect good without making another aspect op. I think it might be worth buffing the lower plate armour to be quite thick, allowing it to drive over ridges more confidently and nerf the side armour to make it less powerful in city/town landscapes. Honestly though, that might just break it.

The best solution would be to modify the shape of the tank itself when it receives PBR textures, maybe make the superstructure taller by expanding the weak plate above the engine deck, also giving it an extra degree or 2 of gun depression in the process. This would make it better in hills, less powerful in cities.

[shut grove]

There is a tank i want to suggest for buffing and i know a lot of you wont agree
Please buff The fv215b183 its just a really bad tank now. As a lot of people/youtubers say it all is on luck. I know a hell lot of players play the tank but more than 75% play for the gun. At least buff the aiming time/dispersion because its soo frustrating when you try to snap shells. If you dont want to do that pleas BUFF the camo and speed as both of them suck. All the grinding and torture you go through from AT-2 is actually not worth it. I'm not saying it needs all of these just buff something so that it makes the 183 at least kinda good

[unique scaffold]

.

[scarlet fjord]

what? the borsig is my favorite tier 8 TD and its cracked what buffing lol
run calibrated shells and u can HE heavy tanks on certain areas and u have 367 HEAT in tier 8 if ur gun handling is "so bad" use the broken HEAT that ignores all armor at tier 10 let alone tier 8
which u wont need since ur AP is enough anyway
not to mention the most broken aspect of the tank
it has like 80% camo or smt dumb like that buff what XD
the tank is not broken it just has a broken camo stat and broken HEAT pen but the tank itself is great nicely balanced

[rare sleet]

You literally must be trolling and I almost had a stroke trying to read that paragraph. Please re-read your paragraph before you post it. Thanks

[shut grove]

I agree with you but please read your message before sending it. i had to read it 3 times to understand it lol

[scarlet fjord]

i dont have any problems and its not a formal chat
but ok buddy

[winged barn]

You forgot the turret

So along with its other perks, you can peekaboom after an enemy just shot, unlike the isu

[scarlet fjord]

yeah forgot the turret most ppl dont realize the benefits of turreted TD's
having a turret on ur TD = less breaking camo net + less bloom since ur not traversing ur hull ur just moving the turret

[gleaming apex]

HeroWonds#1261 has been warned.

[shut grove]

true

[crystal dragon]

buff KV 1S PLS MY FAVORITE TANK increase its reload speed and top speed and add 3d models pls

[fickle light]

Well the best i can think of is that we can give it 100 more HP, which could be a decent buff while not making the tank broken. The additional HP can give u a better chance of surviving after assert your dominance on the enemy team

[dry rivet]

KV1S was already recently given a reload buff from 17 seconds dropped to 15.

[quick lichen]

…how old are you

[wide dawn]

Looks like someone cannot wait for 15 seconds 💀

Also the KV-1S is already pretty fast at 43 kmph, what more do you even want?

And be patient for the PBR models to come, it is usually a time-consuming process which will take several months to process everything for every tank, plus they need to look after the PBR maps as well.

[dry rivet]

Did you need something? Accidentally deleted your dm.

Edit: oh… lmao

[full token]

itll stay as it is. Buffing camo, or the gun just makes it more punishing than it is. Taking away half of someone's hp in one shot is no joke, and the rest of the tank is made awful for that gun to be what it is.
Whyd you go through the entire grind expecting the 183 to perform any better

[quick lichen]

Doesn’t need a buff. It has exactly what it needs to always get played. A big gun. No one plays it for any other reason, certainly not to win

[dry rivet]

Meme tank for the giggles lol

[quick lichen]

What you don’t see with the win rate and average damage statistics is the battle count. It’s already being spammed the most, so if you buff it in any way at all, it will get out of control. No one wants to play a tier x game where there’s 4-6 183s

[winter heron]

Lmao "add 3d models" just made my day

[quick lichen]

The current one is 2 dimensional. Kinda like the original super Mario

[willow hawk]

I would agree to a buff on gun dispersion and a nerf on aim time to compensate for the buff…more accurate gun, slower aim time.

[dry rivet]

Ur so bad in it omg 😂

[willow hawk]

XD don’t judge me. Wait till you get one yourself

[shut grove]

true

[winged barn]

I'm waiting
Wait
Its already in my garage?

[wanton zinc]

I think the VK 72 frontal armor should be slightly nerfed, using a WT I can't get any penetrating shots in front, and the lower armor plate is also too thick, the cupola is so small we need quite some luck to penetrate it

[twin egret]

Usually the bigger the tank the more HP it has but this is not the case 🤨

I find this really interesting lol; i'm not complaining at al

I find it kinda funny

[winter heron]

It's fine as it is, since the side as so weak. Not every tank has to be the same in terms of weak spots, it's refreshing to have some tanks that you need to different tactics to deal with

[upbeat sphinx]

Load heat and you can pen it in the lower plate

[whole nebula]

I don’t think the vk72 is the worlds biggest issue… you might have to move maybe? 😋

[sleek grove]

its hard for some ppl to flank, thus they make such suggestions , resulting in ,again, bad opinions

[regal axle]

Shoot HE at the Turret The VK Like any Others Tank with a rear mounted turret ,thats a way to Set this Tank in fire with a Bit of luck😅

[upbeat sphinx]

But poor VK which arguably is underpowered in the current meta. Or at least not viable in rankings or other competitive modes

[sleek grove]

vk was always a worse e100, since it got introduced, it only works against bots who cant aim , nor shoot prammo.

[leaden flare]

It's a WT player what do you expect dude probably moves his 100m from spawn and doesn't load any heat

[sleek grove]

haha yes big gun no need for prammo haha shoot HE boom 300 dmg big brain no-scope 30wr

[outer glen]

+5-10km for sta1

[placid cosmos]

+5km for panther 2

[upbeat sphinx]

waffle is the arty in wot blitz

[spring bloom]

does anyone know how to play the nashorn line correctly? I'm always getting penned by HE!!! Please give me some tips! I'll be really appreciated it!!!

[sleek grove]

Getting penned with HE is something u will get to experience on the whole line
The best strategy is to keep yourself with your team and camp,have map awareness

[safe rapids]

Ye. Camp but do not tunnel vision, you need map awareness. The only exception is playing a Sturer Emil frontline for the giggles, with that 15 degrees of gun depression. But I wouldn’t do that unless you’re totally insane like me.

[sudden path]

Run spall liner
Duh

[sleek grove]

<@&481447501690568709> sussy nitro

[gleaming apex]

Edoardo#0119 was banned

[sleek grove]

<@&481447501690568709> sussy nitro

[quick lichen]

Can we just pencil you in to watch over this channel?😂

[bold dagger]

its my fault for that

whenever i ban someone for the fake nitro, i leave “sussy nitro” as the reason now

[nimble zodiac]

Nah you gotta leave "should've pinged mods so they could have gotten it first"

[cursive schooner]

Use heat lol

[candid steeple]

Just had a game where I perfectly played T-34-2 took no shot and supported team from mid on map canyon. There's Chimera and T49 mid. I don't let them with team just push at me so Chimera got killed and T49 was low on hp. Entire game on mid full hp didn't get shot. I shot at enemy tank to help team and see T49 crossing the top and aiming at me. I could just feel it gold ammoracking me. Pls don't ammo rack pls don't ammorack. He shoots and ammo racks me. My good playing for the entire game got ruined to be full hp oneshoted by T49. I can just feel it when T49s aim at my chinese or russian meds. I am saying this because this is not my first time T49 ammorackign me. Just because of T49 I run enchanced ammo rack on T-34-2 and T49 tanks still ammorack me. I don't know if it is just me or something is wrong with T49 shells that always magically ammorack you. It happened too many times. 152+mm gun rarely ammorack me but somehow T49 players always manage to do that. I really don't get what is wrong with T49 shells. Do those shells got higher damage on modules just for the meme of ammoracking people or what. My game was a draw because of one lucky shot. It's quite annoying. People complain about IS-7 but in my 200+ games of IS-7 I never got ammoracked but T49 shooting at me always magically manages to do that.

[quasi axle]

Copypasta central

[sleek grove]

i dont see the point where that is our problem

[drowsy plaza]

@candid steeple Do you understand tank characteristics at all? Because based on the multiple posts you make on things it doesn’t appear that you do. The only way a T49 is going to rack a T-34-2 is side of the turret, or on the hull. Which means you over exposed in a tank that doesn’t have a lot of gun depression. Thus a YOU problem.

[real bison]

oh wow you got ammoracked in a Chinese medium boohoooo

By a tank with a 152mm gun of all things lol

[full token]

they have to buff themselves. They wont improve unless they want to

[candid steeple]

Hmmm

He got spotted after hitting my cupola. If I could not spot him even if he hit my cupola I wouldn't spot him. There was no one else around to spot him.

[sleek grove]

oh wow he hit your cupola
are u new here?

He should deff learn spotting points of a tank

[neat crescent]

That's a great shot on the reds part 💪

[full token]

thats normal. Some tanks have like a spotting 'pixel' which needs to have a direct line of sight to an enemy to spot them, with hard objects blocking it. As long as you get that out of cover, you spot the enemy, and its why you can be just below a hill with a tiny bit of cupola exposed and youll spot an enemy or get spotted. To get spotted you need to show a certain bit of the tank. Dont know if you just need to show the main armor or what

[sleek grove]

im actually saddened and amazed how little game mechanic knowledge someone is missing, and yet he still plays the victim

[buoyant timber]

How about a better way to balance regular game play during events. Instead of allowing a player to farm the event through regular modes, there should be a game mode like skirmish or whatever, to farm the event. Keep events specific to special game modes.

[candid steeple]

Lack of game knowledge is to think of being in position to still spot Vickers but somehow you get shot and then tank is revealed at that close of a distance. I don't understand what part of lack in game knowledge that is? I didn't even move the tank and Vickers got spotted after the shot and no one was around to spot vickers except me. Please explain me how did I see Vickers after the shot but not before it? I want to see your smart explanation.

He was too close not to be spotted. I think that's obvious enough. If rocks are blocking my view. So after shooting I get ability to see through rocks?

@stuck acorn nice I don't know. Then explain to me how this happened.

[wicked quest]

Firing causes camo to drop rapidly…

[stuck acorn]

You just don't know how the spotting mechanic works

[real bison]

you didn’t watch the video I sent you lol

if you did you’d know how he wasn’t spotted until he hit you

typical herowonds moment

just as bad as milanmrlian

[sleek grove]

so lack of game knowledge
nice
and typical

[full token]

Stick the back half of your hull without any of the turret exposed. See if anyone can hit and also get spotted. You can’t spot because the turret is behind cover. In the game it’s not so realistic that a cupola being exposed always means you can spot them. You need the real spotting point exposed to spot them. It may or may not be on the cupola, I haven’t checked that. But I know you can be exposed for enemies to spot you while being just too far in cover to spot anyone

[sleek grove]

U have a spot point at the beginning of the barrel, basically the mantle piece, that can spot

Red dots represents the points that will get you spotted.
The green spots are the points that u can use to spot.
Case closed.
Video used https://youtu.be/S3FFqmdxtiU
It's made 6 months ago, it's newer which is better

[candid steeple]

Huh there is a new one. They did that really well.

Tho rocks are not bushes so you can't see behind the rock. If I was blocked by the rock and after getting hit spot the tank how does that work. It's probably a pixel perfect as TacNayn said.

@real bison I knew all that already. My question is still why did I not spot vickers but after I got hit I could spot him. Rocks are hard concealment and you can's see through that. If my vision was blocked by rocks how did I spot Vickers. You are still trying to act smart but give no proper solution. I just watched the video because it was the new one and wanted to se how they did it.

So please before next time you try to act smart by saying you know nothing explain why it happened. Next time you say that I know nothing I will just regard you as not worth even looking at.

[real bison]

the new one is the almost the same as the old one

they just add the new crew and directives etc to make it more applicable to modern WoT

no idea how you didn’t get this from the first video

[twin egret]

Is there some website that allows us to see the spotting/concealibility on any tank? Would be quite useful, and maybe letting us know how to expose a tank you're driving

[sleek grove]

Yeah it's called world of tanks blitz, u can actually see all the stats of said tank.
If u want more detailed and if u want to compare them u can use blitzstars

[neat crescent]

This might be a wild guess but your tank shakes after taking a shot and after shooting, it could've been the case that you were shaked and the spot was higher for a few pixels and spotted him over the rock or that the Vickers moved to a spot where your green dot aka the spotting point was able to see one of his visibility checkpoints(when he shot i mean)

[unique scaffold]

I thought after playing in the badger today that I should post this here, WG fix the badgers on movement dispersion the E3 sits at .2 and the badger is .26 it's not even funny how much worse it is even though it's gun is of a lesser caliber and "more accurate"

[candid steeple]

Seems possible.

[unique scaffold]

Oh hi droodles 🙂

[winter heron]

The reason is that after firing, a tanks camo doesn't drop instantly, it just drops quickly, so there's a slight delay between when a tank fires and when it's camo drops below the point where you detect it.

Anyways, does it matter? You got shot, and you detected the Vickers after it shot you. I'm really not sure what you're trying to achieve here

[candid steeple]

Reason is because I took damage and didn't see vickers even though he was right next to me. Literally.

Vickers was too close to me to be hidden with his concealment so even with dropping the concealment it wouldn't mater. He was already in spotting range. Rock is a hard object and it completely blocks vision. Why could I see him after I got hit. He was to close. It's impossible that I couldn't see him because of his concealment rating.

Your reply doesn't prove the point.

[dry rivet]

He probably spotted you earlier and pre aimed. If you’re moving out of cover there is always a delay in spotting, but how does any of this relate to balance discussion?

[winter heron]

What point would that be exactly? You think the game's rigged against you? Ugh.

If the Vickers pulled up fast enough and shot your cupola, the delay in the decreased concealment allowed him to shoot you before you detected him. Also, the Skoda just shot your cupola, it quite possible that your observation module was damaged and you didn't repair it in time since the shots were in quick succession. Also, as @dry rivet said, the Vickers almost certainly pre-aumed since you were spotted by the Skoda.

Now you answer my question: what are you trying to achieve? You want a dev to give you your HP back? You got shot, and you spotted the Vickers, I genuinely can't tell why you're making such a big deal about this. Stop being so salty. There's no use crying over spilled milk.

Also, this is the absolutely incorrect channel for this. If you suspect a bug (which this is not, I've explained the mechanics twice now), file a report or something.

[willow hawk]

You’re beginning to like my idea of buffing the 183’s gun dispersion? Hmmmmmm

[dry rivet]

Shhhh, cuzzie!

[sleek grove]

I mean 183 need a view range buff cause I often find myself without allies cause they all dead, so I have to clean after them totally not sarcasm

[golden turret]

Someone pin this

[nimble zodiac]

No need to pin it, it's an opinion made like (mostly) everybody else's

I agree though, if Badger is gonna have to rely on the team so much, and move to try to defend itself, it can at least be accurate

[wet bramble]

Buff T110E4? It's kinda losing its shine. They need to buff the cupola, traverse, gun depression. Just so its a bit comparable to the E3. So people could choose whether to get E4 for the flexibility or E3 for the armour

[winter heron]

No. His opinion is worth just as little as anyone elses, he shouldn't get special treatment.

[surreal rivet]

But if the cupola is buffed isn't it gonna be Impenetrable hulldown

[wet bramble]

Nope, the armour of the tank is poop

[surreal rivet]

I never seen that part edit:+when hulldown only your turret is showing

[twin egret]

^ that looks really weird and wrong

[nimble zodiac]

I now have no respect for E4's design now

[wet bramble]

That weakpoint is a part of the turret, the 6° of gun depression also means you have to expose that to shoot

[versed tide]

just remove the cupola

[surreal rivet]

Damn it was 6°?

[twin egret]

Somua SM needs an on movement accuracy buff

[outer radish]

Yep, it doesn't need a cupola, It has so much weak spots. Cupola, Drive wheel, that turret thing. The only reason I like the tank is because it's an aggressive TD and also because of the sick Combat star camo

[surreal rivet]

I wouldn't remove cupola I rather have it Shrinked and more gun dep

[frail silo]

^
i don't get why the gun handling is so trash on the somua. what is the point? at least give it better accuracy or aimtime while keeping the horrendous dpm as it is.

[gleaming apex]

Tiy yok#5067 was muted

Honza (John) A.#7158 was muted

[drowsy plaza]

Except the base dispersion on the Badger is way better as is the aim time. The Badger needs more gun arc IMHO

[nimble zodiac]

Nah bruh, more DPM 😎
I'm not against giving it better HE, actually

[main tulip]

better HE for both 4005 and badger
better gun arc and dpm for badger

[nimble zodiac]

😂

[fluid mesa]

wat website

[hearty steeple]

Yeah please no cheap hesh for 4005 thank you. Remember Foch?

[jagged crescent]

Simp

[outer radish]

Just search 'wotb armour inspector' on your browser lol it should be the first one to appear

[winged barn]

give it better HE remove spall liner from the game

[golden turret]

You heard it guys, I’m a simp for agreeing with somebody

[fickle light]

Buff KV-4 gun depression to 8° like the VK 100P

[winged barn]

Random not broken tank buff that will do nothing request: pin this

Gambreaking balancing decisions that are in the game: zzzzz

But yes, def not simping

[twin egret]

Give fv215b calibrated reticle

[sleek grove]

are we talking about the 183 variant , if not then sadge

[twin egret]

Yeah not the 183

[sleek grove]

higly doubt he can hack, so get gud
idk what double act is lmao

[dry rivet]

You can’t hack a server based game. It’s your game client

[scarlet fjord]

following that logic the 183 also has 0.2 on movement dispersion better than badger and yet bigger gun by far
meaning according to WG's point of view they dont always set the stabilization based on caliber sizes only looks like it to me at least

[sleek grove]

Bc it's based on tank speed too, iirc 183 is slower than badger

[fickle light]

Buff KV-4 top gun to 330 alpha which giving it an extra 112 DPM

[full token]

does it really suck and how?

[willow hawk]

KV4 does not suck.

[scarlet fjord]

wait when WG made the 183 taller when they added the PBR files did they shadownerf the camo?

[candid steeple]

KV-4 is good but I can't enjoy it because of that aiming time. If you don't fully aim, shells will go all around and if you fully aim, people got all the time in the world to shoot at your cupola. Quite annoying but well used Kv-4 is a behemoth to kill. Hull and turret buffs it got are a bit too much. I could use and old KV-4 but now this is a bit crazy.

Try using KV-4 in realistic mode. If you are top tier people don't know where to shoot you.

After buffs KV-4 is a lot harder to pen then VK 100P. Also don't buff gun depression. Tanks are supposed to have some limitations. If you ask me KV-4 only needs on movement dispersion buff and aiming time buff. This are the only things that are preventing me in enjoying playing KV-4.

I don't know how much I have to stress out that 7s aiming time on 320 gun is a bit too too much?

Also remove spall liner.

[fickle light]

Ok, i changed my phrase. IMO, KV-4 could use an alpha buff consider how it competitor as a meatshield, VK 100P have a 460alpha gun, which can make the tank at same tier or lower think twice before trading, while KV-4 320alpha just make all the TDs at the same tier load gold and trade just fine. Also, buff KV-4 gun depression to 7° for better hill combat

[sleek grove]

So you just enumerate all the positives of Kv4 such as : great armor and meat shield.
And on top of that u want a more snappy gun just bc ur too lazy to aim?
Chief, get good

[candid steeple]

So in your opinion all other tanks should have 5s and less aiming time that got bigger caliber guns while 320 alpha gun has a 7s aiming time. I really don't understand how your brains work. I found 3 people in this room who's logic ain't in place.

Next time I see your massage I wont read it. Your existence on this server is non existent other then just to flame people. Yeah 7s aiming time is totally not too long. Good I know now to regard you as not even worth looking at.

[wet bramble]

T110E4 needs a buff, Remove that tumor hatch, make it more depressed because that 6° of gun isn't very depressed, make it more mobile because it has bad armour already so there's no point keeping it that slow (even the E3 is faster because of EEB lol), buff the HP because there's not enough blood to feed 7 red mosquitoes or buff the 5 giant turret cheeks, drive wheel, cupola, lower plate.

This is my first ever Tier 10 tank so it's really sad seeing it get shadowed by other tanks, it's just becoming meh with how meta is changing (hulldown monsters), it's still my favourite T10 because it's fun but I keep getting shredded by the reds

[outer radish]

Agreed :)

[candid steeple]

I feel like you are looking at PC KV-4. You probably don't even play KV-4 to not know that. Why are you even here expressing your opinion?

[leaden flare]

So you claim to be able to judge even tho you admit that you have no experience whatsoever at t10?

E4 has a turret so that's an advantage
Yes 6° doesn't feel nice but it's not bad either
Remove the cupola is pretty insane

[frail silo]

CSGO:

[shut grove]

I wont say remove the hatch, that wood make the 0e4 too good and op. I would say make it like the e3's like you can pen it but its hard. tbh it doesnt need a speed buff as it is good as it is if they buff the cupola

also 6 degrees of gun depression is not great, but not bad at the same time. Take mines for example. You can use 6 degrees easily without struggling. Its not like 183 having 5 degrees so you may struggle in even going hull down in a simple map like mines. And it has a semi moving turret which is pretty cool in my opinion

[candid steeple]

If you ask me what E4 need is. Upper hull plate buff so gold just doesn't go through it and a hp buff. those 2 things and I think E4 can do half ass front lining.

@wet bramble thing is that if you knew more about the game you wouldn't ask for E4 hatch to be removed. After turret cheek buffs E4 turret is pretty hard to pen and if there would be no hatch then it would be too good. Also a lot more people pick E3 since it has a better gun and more gun depression. Also a lot more forgiving armor. Tho I regard E4 as a much more enjoyable t to play then E3. But gun dispression is what kills E4 the most. Now tank can't go front line and it is not a good td. E4 doesn't really have a good spot in current meta.

also like you E4 is my first tier X td and a second tier X tanks so I also had it for a long time. And also for me it's sad too look at E4 in this state but WG doesn't care.

[wet bramble]

Where did I say I have no experience at T10? And if you ask anyone to choose between E3 and E4 they'll choose E3 without thinking, make the tank more flexible so we can choose whether to take flexibility or armour. Yeah maybe dont take away the cupola just make it like the E3's

[outer radish]

E4 is pretty nice the only problem is the cupola, HP, and gun depression, the speed is understandable because the tank is humongous. If there's only one number to get buffed I'll choose the cupola, that cupola is just paper.

[leaden flare]

Well the first thing your 2nd Paragraph says is its my first t10
That sounded very much like yeah just got my first t10 and it sucks plus buff

So I assumed it was your first and only t10

• All those ridiculous buffs you wanted made it look like that

[shut grove]

If WG just removes the cupola the E4 will be Op as hell. Buff the cupola to make it like the E3'S is the only buff E4 needs. Its a pretty good tank, problem is its not played that much because the E3 is better. And in your first message you said that this is your first T10. So ppl assumed that you didnt have experience in T10

[upbeat sphinx]

No I just forgot to add my comment.
This is blitzstars, and yes kv2 using the same gun as the kv4 has more DPM. Not too many know that, but still I think this is a good reason to buff the kv4 DPM using the zis 107mm a little bit. 2.3k DPM with rammer and double food should be a nice buff

[candid steeple]

KV-4 doesn't need dpm buff. It only needs aiming time buff and on movement dispersion so the moment you move entire aiming circle doesn't bloom across your entire screen each time. That's the only problem I find while using KV-4. Because of aiming time and omd I can't fin myself playing the tank.

[surreal rivet]

I feel ratings need some kinda reward so people are encouraged to do ratings, like every time the season ends each rank will give a certain amount of gold

[candid steeple]

I once played ratings and I can't enjoy gold spam so I stopped. Playing ratings is not worth. Also if you ask me premium and collectable tanks should be banned from rating so over all MM is more balanced an not overly saturated with premiums. But this is only one mans opinion. Tbh they did that for rating in PC I think. Don't take my word but I think they did that.

[fickle light]

List of buff for KV-4:
-320>330alpha top gun(optional)
-reduce aiming for top gun by 1.5s
-50~100HP buff(to make it on par with VK100)
-Dispersion 0.364>0.334
This is based on my opinion only,u can ignore this if u think the tank doesnt need any buff at all. The tank itself is good, but it feel underpowered compare to the other heavies, including it competitor VK 100P. Buff is needed to make the tank perform better

[orchid grove]

All these people are asking for the wrong buff on E4. It doesn’t need an armor buff. The armor does its job. It’s not meant to be an E-100 brawling on the front line or an E3 sitting in an impenetrable hulldown. It’s meant to be sitting behind a rock or bush from the second line, quickly peeking, and then slamming someone for 640 and getting safe before the enemy can get decent enough aim to hit his weak spots.

Most of the bushes and TD spots in this game are next to rocks and houses. That makes them awkward to peek in a turretless TD, but E4 excels at it with the turret. The armor is enough so that he can’t be snap shotted easily, and that’s all he needs for armor.

The only buff on the E4 that I would want (if any at all) would just be an accuracy buff

[candid steeple]

Everyone who plays E4 knows that it's accuracy is bad. But WG never gave it that and keep E3 having far better gun. I doubt that they will ever give E4 more accuracy so that's why I am not mentioning it. E3 is a monster hull down with better gun depression but E4 can't even use ridge line. So as last resort I want it more in front line so upper hull plate to not be penned by every heavy and td an hp buff. Same what they did with 263. E4 already has junk accuracy. Tbh when you go from T30 to E4 you feel like you got downgraded from a tier.

[full token]

They gave the E4 better gun handling recently, and turret traverse. Both help hit more shots

[versed tide]

I would just like the top speed of e4 to be 40 and the accuracy a touch better, so it becomes a bit more flexible than e3 in that regard

[shut grove]

I have a feeling that gold is too much, Kinda like credits or if they do extremely well gold and a free tank, But yeah i agree with u

[versed tide]

I think gold is fine

[twin egret]

Lmao

[gleaming apex]

Fabi3n_31 [BOLD]#2920 was muted

[sleek grove]

damn, find me someone who asked

lmao get booted

[gleaming apex]

Dokutah#7388 was banned

[drowsy plaza]

Honestly just give the E4 a fully traversing turret. The T30 has it, so the physics aspect is clearly irrelevant.

[terse tinsel]

do that to the 4005 too. it dosent have the 183 gun anyway

[candid steeple]

If they want fully traversable turret they would have to do some tank model changes and also because of engine, gun would literally have no gun depression. So no, giving that to E4 is as good as any dream.

[lean trail]

E100 defo needs a little mobility Buff. Decrease ground resistance to make it a little more mobile. Heck even other heavies can easily outflank/outmaneuver it (looking at you 60TP)👀

What also needs to be Addressed are the players that have like 100 matches, 30% WR and YOLO in Tier X matches.
Maybe make if so that in order to Drive a Tier X Premium tank you have to unlock at the very least a regular Tier VIII Tank in the tech tree.

[candid steeple]

That loses WG money so no. And also E100 needs no buffs but in contrast 60Tp needs mobility nerfs. Those provisions for engine in particular.

[twin egret]

The gun mantlet would literally clip into the engine deck so yeah, even if it was given a few model changes to counteract that, it would probably have +6 gun elevation over the rear

[main tulip]

nah don't make model changes like that please
you're getting unhistorical and inaccurate enough with all the cupola removals

[candid steeple]

If that was the only inaccurate thing :3

[main tulip]

It is inaccurate though. Every T110 proposal has a significant hump in the rear for the engine/transmission. Removing it would be taking away one of the key features of the tank, especially one that differentiates it from the E100. I would rather they buff the gun depression to 8 degrees over the gun arc that it already has, in addition to maybe a small mobility buff.

[unique scaffold]

The mobility is fine for a 120+ tons tank so I don’t see it needing that kind of buff, I don’t think you would want a E100 moving like a 60TP towards you

[wicked quest]

@main tulip the E4 is entirely designed by wg though they admitted that plus that falls flat when each WOT platform has entirely different K-91 designs hell not even mentioning 215B is a fake design entirely

[drowsy plaza]

Imagine mentioning realism and Blitz in the same sentence seriously? The game is balanced by altering tank characteristics to make is so tanks are relatively equal in pros and cons.

[main tulip]

just because wg is doing poorly in regards to realism doesn't mean we should throw that concept entirely out the window

[drowsy plaza]

Perhaps make the E4 engine deck a little more like the 60

Then you’d get maybe 2degrees off the back.

[sleek grove]

Why would u need e4 to have fully traversable turret, it's not like it's slow anyway so you won't get to win a CoD either way

[drowsy plaza]

Need and want are different things. You can pin an E4 against a wall and it’s helpless. The ability to traverse the turret more would assist it not acting like a beached whale then.

[wicked quest]

Plus all that was asked was the turret able to rotate 360 there is no reason for it not to when M60 and E5 have said raised engine deck design or leopard 1 concept 1B especially and kpz..

[lean trail]

Balanced 🤣🤣🤣

[main tulip]

E4 is meant to be a TD-heavy tank hybrid of sorts. Why would you want to make it closer to the E100 and further away from a TD, and ruin game diversity? Every tank is already becoming more and more like their competitors as it is.
@wicked quest alright then, make it able to rotate its turret all the way then, but with only gun elevation over the back. I don't care what happens as long as they don't remove iconic parts of a vehicle's model like cupolas

[drowsy plaza]

The E4 was arguably a fantastic Heavy Tank pre 3.8 It has low HP so unless you needlessly buff the HP it’s not going to take the E100 role.

@main tulip iconic for a fake tank?

[wicked quest]

No one said to make it closer to e100 the goal was to make its quality of life more bearable no idea how making its turret 360 will turn it into some e100 knock off and automatically ruin the games “diversity” even though that would actually make the E4 interesting to play again/ and like I said half of the designs are fake and E4 was entirely put together theirselves it is entirely subject to be redesigned if needed

[orchid grove]

@main tulip is speaking straight facts. Everyone always seems to forget that E4 is still, first and foremost, a TD. I think E4’s niche in the game right now is perfect. It excels in the TD role, and has some flexibility when in a pinch, but that’s not his main job.

I think people have this faulty vision of wanting E4 to basically just be a 60TP with less HP and more pen, but I feel that’s fundamentally wrong. If you try to pigeonhole E4 into some sort of heavy tank job, you’ll always wind up in a situation where E4 is outright better, or 60TP/E-100 is, and it removes the diversity provided by E4’s current gameplay

[candid steeple]

It seems WG doesn't like game diversity since AMX 50 100 got turned into an worse version of Emil I. Jokes aside I also don't like diversity removed but WG doesn't know what they are doing. Thinking some imaginary rock paper scissors system should exists. Your ears are bleeding when you hear them mentioning that.

[main tulip]

doesn't matter if it's fake or not, I disagree with throwing out cool and unique elements of tanks in the name of balance. The E4's cupola and engine deck give it a very unique appearance, as well as making its role and playstyle different from the E100/60TP, so I'd rather they stay in the game. If the tank is underperforming, buff it in other ways.

[drowsy plaza]

Yeah that was a terrible idea. The new balancing criteria to me simply stinks. It makes 6/7 carbon copies of tanks, but then WG adds its own take on diversity with the super consumables and provisions - that end up skewing for or against a tank to set it apart from the carbon copies.

Frankly the idea that a turreted tank (E4) has the same DPM as a single hull tank (E3) is fairly bizarre. One would think the E3 would have a better RoF simply due to the larger work space, and constant placement of the ammo in relation to the breech. But the E3 is already a much better tank than the E4, so you can’t buff it’s DPM and dropping the E4 DPM puts it in a worse spot than the why would I play it already spot it has.

[sleek grove]

just bc a tank has an inconvenience doesnt mean it has to be buffed or changed, not all tanks are perfect (a couple of exceptions).
wow e4 doesnt fully turn its turret, maybe look at grille who has under 45 degree on each side and WT with fully traversable.
maybe look at 183 accuracy, nobody wants it buffed bc it will change the game.
e4 doesnt need any buffs or nerfs, its the decent "heavy-tank destroyer" it always has been.

[wicked quest]

The cupola literally is the bane of the tank and engine deck is unnecessarily taller than it’s brothers even when sharing the same engine all they had to do was bring it to the standards of the E3 cupola but even they don’t care It’s a TD and again nobody wants to replace e100 or 60tp with it if you think a 35 kmh td with only 1900 HP can replace one of those two share what your on because that’s must be strong stuff

That’s an awful take grille literally has consumables and high speed going for itself along with waffle and 183 can literally knock off half health of any tank E4 can’t do that lol

[orchid grove]

Honestly, though, you all should try playing the E4 again. And just try playing it as a TD. Sit in bushes. Snipe when you can. You’ll find that E4 does that job perfectly.

The armor isn’t meant, and was never meant for E4 to be able to brawl from a hulldown position. The armor is meant so that you can’t be easily snapshotted. All the bushes in this game are next to cover with corners and right angles like rocks and houses. The turret makes E4 far better at using the bush positions in the game than any other tier X TD. You peek, slam someone for 640, and you’re back in cover before they can aim at your cupola.

And with the Ho-Ri levels of penetration, and the 155mm caliber gun, it will melt through basically everything, even Kranvagn turrets.

[candid steeple]

There you are wrong. Yeah before heavy tank hp buffs E4 was viable as sudo heavy tank. After heavy tank buffs. Big boys like E100 60Tp and Maus can just eat your shot and shoot you back. Making you in a much more precarious situation then them. Problem now for E4 is that it's not viable as default no skill td and a sudo heavy tank. That's why I am suggesting that E4 should get an upper hull armor buff and 100-200 more hp. E3 right now only lacks better gun ark of E4 and nothing else. And then you wonder why E4 is a dead as it can get.

Before heavy hp buffs I played E4 quite a lot as heavy. Even T30 but after hp buffs your td hp can't support it anymore.

Also one more thing that killed E4. You know how meds used to have weaker turrets? Before as E4 you just aim at them and they don't dare and poke but now they just poke and spam shells at your cupola because their turrets are a lot stronger. E4 is too behind with the game that is constantly changing and you can't help it since WG doesn't care.

Also dpm in this game has went a lot up. Especially in medium department. How is td hp supposed to hold up with all of that? Like I said game meta is quite bad for E4 to attempt going front line and you can't go back line because gun is bad.

[sleek grove]

wow who would have though a heavy tank will have its role to eat shells and do damage, if u compare e4 to a heavy u need help.

[orchid grove]

You’re not supposed to front line an E4. It’s not meant to be a 60TP. You can in a pinch, but that’s far from the intended gameplay of the E4. If you play E4 in his intended role as a second line sniper, it excels. The turret makes playing sniper positions far easier than a turretless vehicle, and in a pinch, the turret can still allow him to play hulldown in some capacity to quick peek and outtrade things with his 640 alpha

[sleek grove]

according to WG data, in 8.1, addmitedely data is very old now, t110E4 isnt really underperforming , and i doubt buffing it will be much use to the tank

[candid steeple]

That all sounds good until you see that traverse speed of 10.

E4 play rate must be sky high. You see one in every 10 E3 that you face.

[sleek grove]

some tanks require more skill to be played right, just because u dont see it as often doesnt mean it has lost its strenght

[golden turret]

Everyone crying about E4 being bad when it’s meant to be a support TD 🤔

[sleek grove]

fr

[neat crescent]

Rf

[rare sleet]

"Oh my god my Second line tank destroyer can't be played like a frontline heavy tank. This means the tank must be garbage"

[drowsy plaza]

@candid steeple uhm pre 3.8 rammer was 10% Meds had more DPM for the most part, and pre 3.9 could just spam gold. As far as med turrets getting better? With the med pen nerf the turrets also took a hit (well outside the insane T-22 turret but that’s another story). I don’t disagree with you that the E4 is a shadow of its former self though - but that due to the constant heavy buffs.

@orchid grove the issue is the E4 got a forced role change. Folks who enjoyed playing it as a pseudo heavy cannot do that anymore, and frankly for me I enjoyed that style. If I wanted to play a support TD, I’d play a different one.

[candid steeple]

Only buff heavies got in my knowledge is hp buffs. I found playing E4 front line impossible only after those buffs. Also this people who say E4 is good enough are probably the same people who want grille 15 camo buff since they got used too much to OP Wt.

Also not to mention how even then E4 was not strong nor popular but now is even worse. Gotta ask those smart people how is that deemed as good.

[dry rivet]

No tank in the E4 research line has armor for standing ground. They are meant to work from hidden positions

[candid steeple]

T28 proto as top tier can stand it's own ground. Good dpm and troll armor. Ofc paper in tier IX. T30 hull down monster and my fav tier IX td. What E4 has? Doesn't got good enough survivability not does it have a goo gun nor does it have a mobility. So what does it have? Here and there few bounces with more misses then hits from range. What positions are regarded as support td positions if you are not flexible enough to use them? T30 is awesome in this but E4? Yeah right..

[dry rivet]

@willow hawk can you help me try to explain. My English is giving me lower hand

[willow hawk]

I think you’re trying to say that the E4 techtree line has a passive playstyle? From the T25 to the T28 prototype, T30, E4…none of the TDs have armor suitable for brawling. A more preferred method is to engage opponents from concealed positions and back out when fired upon…? You said standing ground, so…

I don’t agree with that tho. E4 can technically be used as a handicapped heavium just like the T30. It’s risky gameplay but that’s how I would play it.

[dry rivet]

I can read your handwriting but you can’t understand my typing 😑

No

[willow hawk]

Close enough tho right?

[drowsy plaza]

@candid steeple 3.8 was a massive net gain for heavies. They benefited the most from the changes from the 3 slot equipment to the 9 slot.

[candid steeple]

WG was smart enough to give this weakness to VK. Remembered to mention now even against E100 VK is no longer good at face hugging. 150 less hp and less dpm. There's so much material to say why vk is not a strong tank. So you give it a weak turret but now you also give it this weak spot. Good that all the guns can pen this. Nice job WG.

No when you know this weakness it's no longer skill in face hug but who has better dpm and more hp. Nice one.

[orchid grove]

That weak spot has always been there. In the past, I 1v1’ed one of my friends from Void E-100 vs VK-72, and that spot is honestly harder to hit than you think it is, even in an E-100. Very possible, but not exactly a lolpen

[neat crescent]

He talking about the circular parts on the back part of the tank? Kinda hard to tell with nothing marking it but it's always been there 🤔

[orchid grove]

He’s marking the spot in front of the turret on the hull roof. You can overmatch it with a 122mm gun or larger, but it’s tough to hit because of how tall the VK is.

[candid steeple]

10 mins ago fought another VK. Penned him 3 times in the row in that spot. No it is really easy to pen. Guy didn't know about it so I hard beaten him. I really hope they buff it to 60mm. It really removes the skill from the tank. If E100 doesn't know about it you eat them alive but if E100 knows about it you got no means of preventing them from shooting at you. let alone other vk 72. I am quite dissapointed in this. Weak spot even extends out of space armor so you can even hit space armor and still pen.

Like for 1v1 space hug I would be okay with both tanks having that but E100 has better dpm and hp. I am not okay with that. It's literally just a stat stick fight where E100 wins because of better stats.

@sleek grove I ask you again why do you ignore everything what I say and focus only on one part to make a statement that means nothing? My reaction is that since your existence here is equal to that. Still haven't seen you say anything other then commenting at what other people say. Why are you here? Pls tell me.

[sleek grove]

So from your saying, u say a skilled player will know where to pen, and an unskilled player won't know, wow, breaking news

Reacting with 💩 won't make your statements less comical

@candid steeple if u don't want me to focus on a part of your message, simply don't write it, as long as u include it in a message I have all the rights to critique it.

Also for those asking I'm here to make fun of ppls bad opinions.
I respect opinions, but to an extent, when u fail to provide evidence outside of your own skill sphere, that something needs to be changed, I'll make fun of it to entertain players around.

Ppl need to understand that just because YOU do bad in a tank, isn't enough of a reason to buff it.

[jagged crescent]

Oh no! Someone with a different opinion! I think that I should respond by just throwing 💩 emojis !

[candid steeple]

Do you understand that he just says to everyone. You are wrong?

Focuses on one part of the statement. Ignores the entire comment and says something about it ignoring everything else.

Yes man you are right weak spots should exist but also be there so you need no skill to exploit them. Good job there. Your logic is through the roof. Do you feel proud by acting like that? Who hurt you in your life?

Also presumes that you are a bad player. Who said you are not a bad player? Do I say to someone else no you are a bad player. Your opinion doesn't count.

[remote oriole]

But who tells him that he‘s wrong? 😞

[jagged crescent]

Dawg who asked you to write a 5 page thesis 💀

[sleek grove]

Man is hurt when he found out heavy tanks have weakspots and 2 different tanks have different stats💀

[willow hawk]

AMX 50 B hearing about weakspots: HOLD MY BAGUETTE

Kontakt: complains about a complaining person genius move
(I’m joking, lol)

[wooden quest]

Dude I swear all you do is complain and complain and complain about other peoples opinions and complain some more. That's literally all I see you type all the time. You are the most complainy person of all complainers and you keep asking and saying so much stupid things.. can you please just listen to other people for once instead of being so stubborn

[candid steeple]

Only guy I am complaining about is FREE . Don't know what other people you think of. Also most people here just think of. I don't play that tank so I don't want it buffed.

But when it's a med that everyone like it like YES. It's hard to talk with people who only care if meds are not strong enough.

Also full house of people asking for 183 or grille buff. Yeah that's a room right here.

[sleek grove]

Idk what kind of psychopath would say to buff 183 and grille, but like, maybe try to listen to others counterarguments of what u say instead of thinking u know better

[minor minnow]

I haven’t seen many, if any requests to buff either tank recently 🤔

[willow hawk]

Watching players trying to exploit each other’s arguments’ weakspots is wayyy more entertaining than exploiting weakspots on a heavy tank in game, apparently. Sitting here with some popcorn and enjoying the show.

[wooden quest]

Wait you know what, he kind of reminds me of like a food reviewer or a restaurant reviewer, always needing to share his opinion on every single tank in the game and completely ignoring anyone else's opinion

[jagged crescent]

So a Karen

[willow hawk]

Oof I’m offended. 😂 buff 183 gun dispersion but nerf aim time to compensate for buff. (Anyone want to start a fight, this is a mere idea. I don’t think it’s right or wrong, just something that can be tested)

[sleek grove]

Honestly, understandable, tho I like to play my 183 in close combat, this is because I'm sure I won't miss due to its "amazing" dispersion value.
What u suggest would make it more suited for Kemp lé Bush 360 no scope get bent from spawn tactic

[versed tide]

Personally 183 is fine as is, it can change games if it just smacks something, but at the same time it just becomes a liability the moment it’s spotted

[scarlet fjord]

i actually like how the 183 is right now
if u frontline its extremely powerful and fun
but the conditions you need to meet for it to become viable are ridiculously difficult to achieve which require knowledge patience and timing
if you ambush a flank of a bunch of heavies or really anything but heavies are juicier u have 4k DPM and 1300 alpha and broken module damage stats
by that i mean 1 HESH shell can damage like 5 modules sometimes it kills crew members
and with adrenaline u get like 16 seconds of reload the DPM gets really high
is it consistent? i wouldn't call it that but if u cant pen u can splash for 500 so worst case scenario you lose 30-40k credits to deal 2-3k dmg if ur patient enough
not meta but u cant really balance 183 so i would rather have it this way where its fun rather than nerfing the alpha to make it possible to balance

[neat crescent]

3k*, if it really had 4k i would be spamming it lol

[nimble zodiac]

It's 4211, he's talking about HESH, I thought the 1300 alpha made it obvious

Well, if you throw CS (I should have calculated it that way)
You have 242mm of 0-norm pen, which is good enough against most enemies, and 3916 DPM

Treat HESH as standard and AP as prammo

[neat crescent]

Hesh still needs to pen though , so that 4211 is a bit situational, as for AP its more likely to pen so 🤔

[scarlet fjord]

i meant the HESH ammo thus the 1300 alpha
and its 242 HESH pen which can pen most tanks including heavies frontally on lower plates if you aim in fully or close to it so worst case scenario you can still penetrate HESH lower plate and out DPM a heavy but as i said its a situational tank i wouldn't recommend allowing that situation to happen but by chance it happens anyway load HESH and try to pen that first 242 is more than enough vs almost anything really
if its not enough you did smt wrong

[fickle light]

I wish AMX 50B getting a PBR model soon, so it can also have turret armor buff like T57.

[quasi axle]

t57 had a turret armor nerf with the new model but ok

[fickle light]

Wait, i thought it a buff? It seem harder for to hit after the model update

[neat crescent]

It's easier for me, the older turret was more weirdly shaped? So it got a lot of bs bounces but now its nicer, thus less troll

[modest atlas]

Kyros is too OP and broken with high dpm and armor, please nerf it

[silk hamlet]

youre not supposed to stand in front of high dpm well armored tanks, just load prammo or track it or just flank it when its isolated

[outer radish]

Well they also need to buff the traverse speed 10kph is just bad

[fickle light]

For me, the new shape made it more likely to hit the gun manlet, due to thr turret itself not that big(unlike 50B with it massive turret)

[neat crescent]

F

[frail silo]

yeah after the pbr update the T57 is cancer to shoot at, especially with that traverse.

[nimble zodiac]

Why shoot the hull? You'd think 50B is great then with that frontal hull

[wet bramble]

Jazz

[fickle light]

If there something the 50B need, i think it is a slight turret buff. Buff the turret ring armor profile similar to the hull. This way, it can minimize the area u can pen the turret(except when u load gold of course)

[frail silo]

i am not shooting at the hull, the turret is simply cancer to shoot at.
it is smaller and if the T57 wiggles a bit it is even more cancer.
it is less troll than before but it is still troll to shoot at with its weird angles.
kek, maybe i just haven't adjusted well. fair enough.

[nimble zodiac]

Nah

[shut grove]

But its not the worst you can manage with it

[outer radish]

It's actually the worst, even the maus can reverse faster than it

[shut grove]

You could do a lot with it though. Buffing the speed is something i would not recommend. it has a lot of armor if the cupola is buffed a little and for that kind of armor 10 is good.

[ashen drum]

bruh

[fickle light]

#blitz-school-discussion this exist, and when did people just think this is a place for game advice lmao

[jagged crescent]

is5 and is3 are balanced

[sleek grove]

I'm surprised Is3 and i5 maintaines their balance without being directly buffed or nerfed, besides the extra HP all heavies received

[deep shadow]

I don’t think the 50B needs anything. My best performing tank and I’m only an average player. 😄 Check my stats… The only balance needed in tier 10 is if Wargaming re-buffs IS-4, E5, Kran, Maus, FV215B, and speed boost to the pre-8.1 state. This would solve the “OP” spam of Yohs, 60 TPs, and IS-7s that so many people are complaining about. I’m so sick and tired of the complains. Everyone likes buffs. Nobody likes nerfs. Just undo the nerfs in update 8.1 and it would be the best tier 10 meta with so much variety in a long time.

[fickle light]

I agree with undo the is-4, maus, and kran nerf. Still i just think that having the turret ring buffed will make it less getting hit so it can stay in battle longer, this is just my experience with the tank(also is my best performing HT)

[shut grove]

Amx 50B needs nothing at all

[fickle light]

Thank you for unecessarily repeating that

[main tulip]

50b isn't supposed to have any armor

[sleek grove]

French tanks aren't supposed to have armor, they're sort of glass cannons

[upbeat sphinx]

The 50b does not need anything, just skill from the player.

[full token]

50 100 armor buff 🤨

[shut grove]

Its like an autoloading medium in an heavy. It's perfect as how it is

[full token]

why do you want a buff when you can see its performing well? Obviously, any buff improves a tank, makes it survive longer, do more damage. Thats what a buff is. But why would it need the buff?

[scarlet fjord]

No no no no
DO NOT rebuff IS-4 kran Maus they finally somewhat got out of the meta after a very very very long and boring period in this gamei was asking for that for like a century WG left IS-4 for way to long as it was it frustrated me every time the biggest illogical thing to me was how completely cracked the E5 was i am glad they nerfed it as hard as they did
and 50B is perfectly fine in my eyes

[sleek grove]

maus is still used in comp fyi
kran is still good lol, it requires more map awarness now due to slow traverse, and it has a low ace bar which im not complaining.
is4 is still good, id still pick it over is7 idk why

[scarlet fjord]

I forgot to mention i was only talking about pubs and in pubs all those tanks are still great very strong in fact
well except the E5 atm after the nuke WG dropped on it
it's kind of struggling to keep up with meta heavies and no longer "the best" and I'm guessing u like the 374 HEAT pen on the IS-4 which ignores all armor and u like the armor shape for angling
IS-7 has a very specific playstyle not everyone likes that pike nose i prefer IS-7 tho it was always my favorite tank in the game and my first T10

[leaden flare]

Why would you play with cali in pubs anyway

[sleek grove]

The only tanks I'm not using Cali are s conq, e100 and autoloader/reloaders

[orchid grove]

Uh, you run cali on singleshooters and vents on autoloaders?

That might be the first case of that I've ever heard

[unique scaffold]

They need to nerf tankensteins armour alittle bit

[sleek grove]

Wait I mistyped, I use Cali on autoloader/reloader

And I run rammer on e100 because it saves idk like 1.x s of reload which kinda helps me
And on s conq bc I simply can't function right with 9.1s of reload, plus on this tank I run refined gun too, apparently works better for me

[deep shadow]

@sleek grove One day, you might complain about the Yoh, IS-7, and 60 TP meta. Rebuffing IS-4, Maus, Kran, E5, and Fv215B (especially the E5 and FV215B) will make the meta very interesting. A time when not two or three tank dominates the meta. I'm elated that you guys wholeheartedly agree that the comeback of the IS-7 into the meta is a great event! It's my first and favorite HT tier 10. I read that you guys also agreed that the E5, speed boost, and FV215B need the rebuffs. 😄

Why do the IS-4 and Kran need the rebuffs? I personally find the Kran and IS-4 strong in the hands of a good player even after the 8.1 nerfs (all tanks are super strong/OP in a really good player and above; my basis). Please take note that I used the term "good player." Pre-8.1, the Kran and IS-4: nub friendly tanks. Many new players were advised to grind these tanks because they were OP in the hands of an average player. This was before the introduction of the 60 TP and the buff to the IS-7. A few updates after 8.1, the IS-7 and 60 TP became the nub friendly tanks. As a result, many new players grinded the IS-4 and Kran. Update 8.1 made the IS-4 and Kran much harder to play then ever before (Kran's traverse got cut in half; IS-4's traverse got cut by 2 degrees; 150 HP reduced), especially for new players (out of meta)

1. Kran (currently has a slightly slower turret traverse than 60 TP; almost the same) needs its former turret traverse speed because it's supposed to face opponents hull-downed faced-on. Even a slight turn of the turret can easily reveal its weak spots on the sides. The 60 TP does not have this weakness when it slightly turns its turret because of its rounded shape.
2. IS-4 needs its former turret traverse because it's currently worse than the IS-7 in most ways except PRAMO (IS-7 is faster, has higher ALPHA, and can sidescrape).
3. Kran and IS-4 need their former HPs back because the 60 TP has replaced both of them (Faster and higher HP)

[sleek grove]

@deep shadow I've never complained about a meta regarding certain tank, the only type of meta I'm holding a grudge is hulldown meta which stalls the game a lot.
Tanks u want rebuffed were already strong, they had their glory, now it's time to make room for new tanks to shine and hold the tops.
As I said, kran doesn't need its traverse speed increased, granted the actual traverse might be an inconvenience for some, but good players work around it with ease.
Is4 is still fine, unnoticeably changed, it's just there are better tanks than it, but it's still strong.
Fv215b is not strong, not even decent, not worth mentioning, it had its glory.
Maus idk what was changed to it, but it's Hella strong anyway.

[scarlet fjord]

I hope WG in the future doesn't keep the meta the same
The IS-4 and E5 spam was the most dumb and boring meta by far I hope they make as many tanks meta level as possible not just a couple being spammed on every map
And I also hope they change the meta tanks more frequently than the years they needed for the IS-4 E5 meta so the game isnt boring
This time I'm talking about both pubs and tourney

[sharp saddle]

Man, the people asking for IS–4 buffs the moment it isn’t dominating tier ten meta always give me a laugh

[deep shadow]

@scarlet fjord I also hated the E5 and IS-4 spam! 😄 What I fear is a 60 TP, Yoh, and IS-7 spam in the next 2-3 years!

**What I'm trying to advocate for is to make a varied meta where most HT tanks are played and every HT tank is worth the grind.**I believe that would make pubs and tourney very interesting. By undoing the nerfs of 8.1, we will have a very interestingmeta where almost every HT tank in the game is used.

The rebuff of the IS-4, E5, FV215B, Maus, Kran, and super speed boost won't replace the Yoh, IS-7, and 60 TP as Kings of the Meta because even without the nerfs, some of these tanks would have been power-creeped by the 60TP and IS-7. Instead, it would make the IS-4, E5, FV215B, Maus, and Kran used more often in pubs and tourneys ALONGSIDE the Yoh, 60 TP, and IS-7 as pre-8.1 states of these tanks (IS-4, Kran, E5, and etc) can better fulfil roles that current meta tanks (Yoh, 60TP, and IS-7) currently fulfil. It also makes the IS-4, E5, FV215B, Maus, and Kran easier to play (which is great for new and old players alike).

Why does the Maus need its rebuff (I covered the Kran and IS-4 in my message above... it is generally agreed by most players that the E5, super speed boost, and FV215B nerfs should be reversed, and the FV215B should be buffed more than its pre-8.1 state)?

1. Wargaming nerfed the Maus's dispersion (by quite a lot) because of the camping Maus meme (which may have caused bad publicity for Wargaming... Child-mood: I'm sorry devs, influencers, and marketers!!! I love WOTB and Wargaming!). However, why didn't they also nerfed the E100's and VKs' dispersions
2. The Maus needs it's dispersion because, after exposing its turret cheeks, it needs to snap shot at close ranges and immediately return to its angled position. A forward/sideway facing Maus is a farmer's dream. An angled/sidecraping Maus is a beast.

@sharp saddle I have all the tanks above except the Maus.

[orchid grove]

#MakeMausGreatAgain

Those nerfs were completely unjustified

[scarlet fjord]

I like the idea you are trying to spread only Ur too focused on heavy tanks make the circle of meta tanks wider but it should be TD and med classes that need to be implemented not more heavies specially ones everyone has been using for 3 years and is already sick of them
I hope WG aren't crazy enough to reverse the nerfs and they have a tendency to almost never reverse what they did because they don't like admiting to mistakes even tho people always love that characteristic I do think that 215B is nerfed for literally 0 reason basically every update WG is being extremely unreasonable with that tank idk why
The guy that had that IS-4 bias is also pissing a lot of ppl off with the 215b nerfing every damn update

[sleek grove]

id just like to see maus rebuffed
rest can stay the way they are.

maus has been treated unfair, yet, its still strong, tbf id take an armor buff instead of dispersion buff cause its maus, it has to feel like an imovable object

[gleaming apex]

eeowkwkj#7082 was muted

[distant river]

Seems like it doesn't need a buff to me. I'd have preferred the dispersion to be kept the same and the hp to have been nerfed back to what it used to be (basically leave it how it was, funny how often this is a good idea), rn it's just a damage sponge that takes very little to do well in.

[leaden flare]

Things I don't understand t95e6 and s conq below avg in wr?
These statistics look very wierd to me any info if they are from all servers combined or RU only or EU only where are they from

@orchid grove I did too 70%+ wasn't an issue for me and above what I've achieved in other tanks
All without tooning
That's why I didn't get why it was that low my usual battles aren't that much about rotating and more about holding the key positions long enough

[orchid grove]

Having played a lot of S Conq recently, I completely understand it. It’s too slow to rotate or seize key positions, and his DPM isn’t high enough to have enough of an impact on the fight once he gets there.

Also, he can’t push well because the lower plate is too easy to hit/pen, and the tank is too slow to get out of the open quickly

[remote oriole]

From the FAQ of the site used:

„The statistics have been calculated from a data set with very high number of players (700,000+) and battles (in total 6bn+). That is maybe 4 times the users Blitzstars.com has. However, there is still sampling bias as there is any Blitz stats tracker site. This is evidenced by the overall WR distribution and the share of all wins out of all the battles in the database being above 50%. This is a topic worth of a longer post - stay tuned.“

Also and article from the Blog on the site:
https://blitzanalysiz.com/blog/2021-02-27_1m_accounts/

[stuck acorn]

Tbf i kind of agree on rebuffing old HT's. Rebuffing a speed boost tho is one of the most stupid things i ever heard of. This thing should be removed straight away along with all other super consumables. They are ruining the game.

E5 in previous state without super consumables would be just fine.

IS-4 was too strong, now it's kind of overshadowed by an 7 tho. Still i consider it as a fairly balanced tank.

Kran is also fine in current state

215b nerf was dumb on the other hand. This nerf should be reverted and tank should be at least imo completly rebalanced as it doesn't fit the line and super consumables removal would make it completly useless.

Maus was treated pretty unfair. Just because it had ridiculous amount oi HP which made it broken (broken, not OP) it got nerfed on the accuracy which was already bad enough. Imo just revert accuaracy nerf.

And for me VK 72 could also use some rebalance. This tank from the start was meant to have ridiculously string frontal hull, but at the cost of side weakspots which make it impossible to side scrape in this tank. What's the point of it tho when you just need 300 pen to easly pen it in the front which was meant to be main advantage of the tank? Well as it can't angle there is no point. Imo as it's a super heavy it could trade some mobility for stronger lower part of the hull so it no longer will be penned by anything other than TD's

That's it for heavies. Ofc introducing these changes would require some other changes in other classes, but it's a topic for other message

[sleek grove]

i wouldnt mind an s conq buff, the gun dispersion and accuracy is just not on the same level as 215b, even tho they share the SAME gun

[stuck acorn]

S conq is perfectly fine. It's just a chief with way more armour, but weaker gun and a bit slower

[full token]

accuracy and dispersion get adjusted for balance. Its not always linked to a gun

[orchid grove]

I just want more DPM. My big issue with the tank is that for a tank as slow as the S Conq, it doesn’t have the firepower to make up for it, especially since it’s not great for pushing

[deep shadow]

I also don't like super consumables. I want them to be removed too. However, it's more likely (and easier) that Wargaming would re-buff the HTs and super speed boost to pre-8.1 state. Removing super consumables are a waste of resource and time to Wargaming. It is more logical of Wargaming to re-buff them (IS-4, Kran, Maus, FV215B, E5, and super speed boost) to pre-8.1 state rather than removing super consumables that they have spend a lot of time and resources on to implement (it will also take a lot of time and resources to remove these super consumables). A change of perspective: these consumables might make the game more interesting in the long term as just having tanks with different reload, armor, alpha, and speed could get boring real fast. This is also the reason why Wargaming is implementing unique mechanics to tanks (Yoh and T100-LT) rather than adding new consumables (massive backlash to tungsten shells; which they will sadly not remove in the near future).

@sleek grove Maus has great armor. It just needs to angle. It needs a dispersion buff because its gun misses and isn't feared as much anymore. Maus needs to pen its shots from a moderate distance. If a tank gets close to the Maus, the Maus is technically dead when it's being side-hugged. HRF backs the dispersion re-buff in his Maus stream.

@scarlet fjord Thank you so much for acknowledging my idea! I understand your point about the meta should be all rounded between classes rather than just rounded in HT class!

[distant river]

If you get into a close range 1v1 in the maus it's bad, otherwise it should be on the face of the reds constantly with a team supporting it. You shouldn't be at mid range at all because then the reds are just going to ignore you. You need to make them pay attention to you, and hold the attention without dying, and you just can't do that as well from mid range. It's gun shouldn't be feared because it shouldn't be a tank that outputs damage well. @deep shadow

[karmic dock]

Imo heavies are still too powerful, buffing them makes no sense, 60tp needs quite a nerf, yoh and is7 only a slight nerf also, heavies by far make up the most part of tournaments and its realistcally a really horing meta, the fact in the blitz cup we see 7 60tps on one team shows this is just an overcooked tank,

the other heavies dont need buffs, yoh, 60tp and is7 need some nerfs and we need a light med buff, like maybe an extra 100 dpm or 100 more HP,

The t100 will not help at all because it will slow down the cw meta even more cus the 20 sec spotting will make rotations come even later, its just meh balancing atm, heavies are way too powerful to allow other classes to have an equal impact on games,

especially TDs have been left in the dust, theyd need a mobility and HP/armor buff to make them viable more as frontline tanks instead of promoting campy gameplay otherwise keep them in their current state

[winged barn]

The only reason heavy stats appear somewhat balanced compared to other classes is that they are matched directly against other heavies. With the older more random matchmaking, the heavies would be laughably overpreforming

[sleek grove]

@karmic dockheavies are more used in comp due to their bigger HP pool, why would someone take a jge100 when they can take an E100 , which has almost twice its HP and a turret.

[remote oriole]

1.375 = 2

[versed tide]

E100 has 4.2k hp now????

[scarlet fjord]

For the flex

[golden turret]

Do they really want IS-4 and E5 spam again 😂

[hearty steeple]

If they want is4 buffed, I might as well put my special request. Pre nerf Foch 155 autoloader gun.

[remote oriole]

Anyone else with unconventional balancing ideas? Now seems to be the best time to post them.

I want the Leopard 1 to get 400 alpha

[scarlet fjord]

oh yeah u reminded me
Pls buff Foch 155 single shot gun
why did they make it literally worthless
they had 0 reason to nerf that gun it should still be a 640 alpha gun
they basically forced everyone in using their new "toy" the auto loader which was amazing when it came out now its bad
7 seconds inter clip for 560 alpha
u have a 50B with way more Hp's and a turret with 3 seconds interclip way more accuracy and more burst damage
the 50B is literally a better "TD"

[sleek grove]

ngl id like my kran to have 5 clip autoreloader, kinda an inconvenience to only shoot 3 shells only

[uneven narwhal]

4202 with strong turret armor :pepega:

[silk hamlet]

give the 183 ret cal

[sleek grove]

actually on a more important request, id like to see sheridan with 105mm gun option, for ✨ diversity ✨

[nimble zodiac]

You want an option to be a worse Leo 1?

[remote oriole]

You haven’t heard the gun stats yet

[scarlet fjord]

the gun would have to be worse either way

[karmic dock]

you don't say, that's why I'm saying they need a nerf, cus it's so boring to play it

[polar stag]

The 60tp needs a dpm nerf and a gun depression nerf

[desert harness]

It's coming almost every game there is a 60 tp lewandoskiego

[scarlet fjord]

reverse speed nerf

[willow hawk]

Players: that tank is too powerful. It needs a nerf!!!
The game: nerfs tank
Players: that tank is too weak! It needs buff.

Legend has it, the cycle of balancing the same tank still continues to this day…

[stuck acorn]

Well, it depends on what WG actually did to the tank. For example look at FV215b. 2-3 years ago when it was only tank with super consumables it was an unquestionable meta. But then they nerfed it's HP, and when all Heavy tanks got massive HP buffs, this tank just got reverted to previous state. Some other tanks like E5 also got super consumables and suddenly 215b became niche tank with stupid construction that barely anybody plays.

My point is: remove super consumables, because they are hurtfull for the tank balance. Same as WG did with missiles. Or just give super consumables to all tanks if you want to support diversity. ( it doesn't apply to spall liner, this thing needs to be removed asap)

Also what we need is making tanks balanced, not nerfing them to the ground just to get a pre bueffed version of it as a collectible 3 months later (yes, E5 it's about you).

WG also needs to finally stop implementing new better and better tanks with more and more cancerous mechanics into the game as new lines. They finally stopped doing it with prem tanks, so it's time to stop doing that with tech trees.

Nobody ever actually asked them to implement tungsten shells for 60TP just for it to overshadow E100 in every single way, neither anybody asked them to implement this new cancerous 20 sec spotting system (for f sake, why, just why) or Yoh dealing 900 damage in less than 2 seconds.

Nobody ever needed that new DiVeRsItY that just ruins the game. Just add normal well balanced tanks

[lunar niche]

I support this. Give higher pen too.

[mental pasture]

Just to end with a golden key your final affirmation

Being different or diverse doesn't mean wrong, but also doesn't mean good.
None needs diversity If this difference is nada for the game.

[polar stag]

Im just saying this cuz the 60tp can play hull down, sidecraping, big alpha and any role on the battle field and I think if they nerfed the e5 for being too versatile they should do the same to the 60tp

[sleek grove]

u cant really sidescrape against better players
blue part can be penned with ease

[nimble zodiac]

Yeah it's not a sidescraper at all, not to mention the ammo rack is vulnerable there

[deep shadow]

Yeah! When I meant mid-range I meant in front of the enemies, distracting them face on in an angled position! 😄 However, I personally feel that the Maus should soak damage and deal some damage as well, like a shield. It should be used to soak up hurt and pain, but when it shoved and pushes against the enemies… it should hurt! 😄 Having a better dispersion helps a Maus snap shot…

@karmic dock uh…. Mts and Tds are pretty strong now…. they aren’t used in tourney because of HP. If the rebuffs of IS-4, Kran, Maus, E5, FV215B, and super speed boost occurred (reversion of 8.1), it would make the meta one of the most interesting yet, in tourney and pubs! The only thing that I feel would make things even better after the reversal of all the nerfs (including super speed boost) in 8.1 is a slight buff to all the TDS HPs! That would be heavenly!

@golden turret I don’t want IS-4 and E5 spam! Guys! Everyone! Stop making fun of it! It’s nothing funny. There is a problem: meta only has Yohs, 60TPs, and IS-7s. Every meta, there are only 3 OP tanks that everyone plays (IS-4, E5, Folch 155, OBJ 140, T22, OG IS-7, and etc) Even if the IS-4, Maus, E5, FV215B, Kran, and super speed boost are buffed back to pre-8.1 states tomorrow, the Yohs, 60TPs, and IS-7s will still be there! People will still play Yohs, 60TPs, and IS-7s as much as before! This reversion of 8.1 will just make playing a lot easier for some people and make the meta HT meta competitive for once!

[deep shadow]

I dislike the super consumables too! However, we can’t waste a dev team’s effort after they have spent so much time coding and implementing this (unless it is something truly toxic like ATGM). Resources and capital were spent on the development of consumables.

There are 2 ways to solve this tiring pattern of meta changing we all know of:

1. Buff any tank with super consumables to a state where it doesn’t need the consumables. I.e Remove all super consumables and adjust stats to compensate.

2. Keep the super consumables and just rebuff super consumables and the HTs nerfed in update 8.1 and more ( buff FV215B a tinge bit more and increase all TDs hps slightly {Dragon}).

Ask yourself: which is easier?

Removal of stuff/nerfs: generally negative

Buffs of stuff/addition of stuff: generally positive positive 😄

(Removal of ATGM) positive

I made this chat alive! Lol

Friendly open discussion! Please don’t call me a nub. 😄

[winter heron]

Yeah! Let's do it. Unconventional balance? let's give the fv183 an autoloader. No. Scratch that. An autoreloader. Also, what if we just gave the e100 a third gun to choose from? Maybe with higher alpha? Oh! Oh! Let's institute the community favourite idea of giving the 4005 a 183mm! Everyone loves that one!

(/s in case anyone thought I was serious)

[stuck acorn]

You are clearly wrong here. Super consumables are nearly as toxic as ATGM's. Maybe not pure gameplaywise, but they totally ruin the point of different parts of the game.

Super consumables aren't also anything hard to code. Anybody that has at least a little of experience in that will know that implementing new super consumables is just copypasting code from for example adrenaline and changing few lines that determinate what effects does the super consumable have. After that you just make an icon and detreminate which tanks will be able to use it. That's all.

1st solution is fine, that's what we need.

For the second one it's just dumb. Why would you buff something that is already breaking a game? Just remove it. HT's nerfed in 8.1 were nerfed for a reason. We don't need them back in previous state unless they will have super consumables removed in Kran's and E5's case. For 215b and maus just revert it, these 2 were actually fine. And let IS-4 be as it is. It's not good, neither it's bad. It's just fine.

Also as it was many times said in the past. Adding stuff is not necesarilly positive, neither removing it is necesarilly negative.

[deep shadow]

I see… Umm… I personally want super consumables to be destroyed… unfortunately… it is highly unlikely for Wargaming to do that… the issue of super consumables is more polar than ATGM… unless we have several Youtubers quitting the game and massive amounts of players quitting the game because of these super consumables.
The IS-7 has replaced the IS-4 in most aspects and roles (faster, higher alpha, can actually sidescrape, can actually bounce shells when face hugging a tall tank)… the 60TP has more or less replaced the E5 and Kran… We seem to agree that the FV215B and Maus didn’t deserve it…

How would these rebuffs break the game after the introduction of 60TPs and the new IS-7? Wouldn’t it make it more balanced? E5s and Krans with super speed boost can counter 60TPs and their increased speed provisions and tungsten shells because of their former mobility and dpm/turret traverse. The meta would be quite balanced… wouldn’t it? 60TP has more HP, alpha, armor (enhanced armor), and mobility than the IS-4 now. I don’t believe that we want meh tanks… we want tanks that are excellent in their niches along with variety. Tanks are only as good as they are until we compare them.

To balance the other classes after this reversion, buff all tier 10 TDs’ HPs (Dragon).

[stuck acorn]

Sadly it wouldn't make it more balanced. Yes, they introduced new better tanks, but still those old ones stayed nearly untouched. Those tanks that were released before heavies nerfs and didn;t get any changes will now start to fall behind even more, as now not only little bunch of tanks would be much better, but nearly all T10 heavies.

That's why we need a full Tier rebalance, not only small bunch of tanks. We will never get to a balanced game without all those meta rotations unless WG decides to adjust ALL tanks to each other on the tier we want to balance out regardless if these tanks are balanced now or not. Unless that happens we will always have those few tanks that stand out, those few that fall behind and those few that are just worse versions of other tanks. There is no other way than adjusting all tanks with having in mind all others

[burnt venture]

I would 100% take IS-4s and E5s over 60TPs and IS-7. Right now the comp meta is heavy tanks that are walking ammoracks with stupid speed (40-50kph) with really dumb front and side armor running around while everybody has .4 dispersion.

IDK about you but I have never ever seen this much RNG-based bullcrap in a long time.

And then on top of that we have more gimmicky tech tree lines coming our way (gimmicks rule new content nowadays because it generates popularity) plus more premium tanks being announced while massive issues like matchmaking rules, lower and mid-tier balance, the stupidly implemented current balance system (no tank should be forced into a specific role for "balance"), issues with lightning fast game progression, useless avatars / certificates that bog down the size of the game, terrible server connections especially for certain regions, etc. etc. etc.

But no, instead of listening to good players telling you that you are killing the gameplay and allowing more and more terrible players into top tiers, let's try to milk more money out of the 50%ers and announce game-breaking garbage and no-brain balancing that appeals to garbage players.

[dull belfry]

Agreed

[deep shadow]

Hypothetical scenario in a future update where Wargaming rebuffs IS-4, Maus, E5, FV215B, Kran, and super speed boost to pre-8.2 stats without nerfing anything else (all other things being constant)/. Hypothetical scenario where the nerfs of update 8.2 did not happen. This is what I predict would have been the situation currently if the nerfs of update 8.2 didn't occurred

8.1 didn't occurred hypothetical scenario/Current scenario

E5: above average (consumables)/below average
Yoh: average/above average
T57: average/average
T95E6: below average/below average
Concept 1 B: average/above average

OBJ 260: below average/below average
IS-7: above average (that combo and RNG boost)/above average
IS-4: average (competitive against IS-7 because of HP, PRAMO, and DPM; similar armor profiles and turret traverse)/below average

VK 90: above average/above average
VK 72: below average… slightly buff sides and DPM? (I personally feel that nothing is needed)/below average
E100: average (Does it need any buffs? I personally don’t think so… some players: increase the front of the armor by 3~7 millimeters)/below average
Maus: average/average

Chieftain: average/average
Super Conq: average/average
FV215B: average (not below average cause of consumables)… buff armor sides? (I don't think it needs anything more)/below average

50B: average/average
AMX M4 54: average/average

WZ-113: average (could make the sides and edges of the tank spaced armor; I don't think it needs any buffs)/average
WZ 5A: below average (just a worse IS-7?)/below average

Kran: above average (cause of those consumables)/below average
60-TP: average (cause of that gun handling)/above average

Is this a fairly accurate prediction?

[orchid grove]

“Above Average”

[remote oriole]

PBR armour buff. After hearing this word I want to commit Blitzn‘t

[deep shadow]

Lol heard it somewhere that a WOT IS-4 in Blitz with that troll sides might help an IS-4 side-scrape and troll again…. Lol nothing is below average… lol my bad

[stuck acorn]

ugh what have i read... No, no and one more time no. We wouldn't recieve what we want. We wouldn't get a good meta. We would just go back to what we had. FV215b would be as bad as it was, even super consumables can't save this tank from it's terrible design, Vk 72 still would be worse E100 with no point to go for it what so ever, Obj 260 would also lose all it's point as a pre buff E5 without removal of super speed would be better in every single aspect, WZ 5A still would be worse IS-7, T95E6 would also end up overshadowed by E5 again after it finally got some point.

Meta again would be filled with Jack of all trades heavies with mobility of meds which clearly nobody wants. Biggest problem of old meta was that meds were totally overshadowed by heavies which totally ruined the point of this class.

I don't like current yoh/60TP meta at all, i still find it more balanced than previous one tho. Current meta heavies at least aren't just more armored meds.

We need nerfs, not buffs. We can't also forget about T9's which had totally ruined lifes in previous meta. If we buff T10's again, they will be in even worse position.

Just nerf Yoh and 60TP. If you want to change 215b, kran or E5 first remove super consumables or they will break the game once again

E3 and 4005 will be perfectly fine without super consumables. E3's line might be little to weak, but you can make up for it with some buffs, T28 and T95 were always quite bad. E5 needs super consumables removed, then you can give it back DPM and turret traverse.

[deep shadow]

Ok… then what about FV4005 and E3 lines? But E5’s dpm is so bad that it’s almost like its tier 9… IS-7 has a higher dpm than E5… have to check 60TP’s one too… could be higher than E5… FV215B with its 8.1 state had one of the best guns in tier 10. I would say the best tier 10 HT gun there is… with the super speed consumable buffed to pre-8.1 and a slight increase in armor….it might replace the E5 and 60TP in certain roles… FV215B will become competitive against E5, Cheiftain, 60TP, and Concept 1 B. Most, if not all of the tech tree heavies would be pretty balanced against each other and a lot easier to play… don’t underestimate the VK 72… it’s not a worse E100… it’s totally different… the VK 72 with a armor buff on the boobs/ sides of the tanks could make it very strong because of that pretty accurate gun and almost impenetrable front.

The meta won’t really be jack of all trades HTs… the MTs and TDs are pretty strong now since the buffs of 8.1… E50M, FV4002, Leo, M48, T62, Vickers, Sheridan, T22, Grille, FV4005, Jg panzer, OBJ 263, OBJ 268, T100-LT, E3, E4, and etc are all pretty good in the current meta. Tourney tanks do not dictate the meta of pubs

Is it more likely Wargaming will remove consumables or buff tanks and consumables… especially new game balance breaking stuff? @ everyone Someone should make a poll…
😄

[polar stag]

Clearly from the conflict of opinions in this discussion we can see why wargaming is having such a hard time balancing the game, cause it simply isn't as clear cut as everyone makes it seem it is.

[main tulip]

<@&481447501690568709>

[stuck acorn]

<@&481447501690568709> nitro

[nimble zodiac]

Ping em once guys 😂
@deep shadow come on
:p

I mean they’ll deal with it when they’re online, pinging them again doesn’t make it quicker

It was posted everywhere they were able to, to maximize the chance of people seeing it

[deep shadow]

We really need those official balance charts from Wargaming before we proceed further with the solutions to balance tier 10 HT, which includes removal of super consumables and/or the reversal of nerfs of 8.1.

@shut solar Thank you! Got it

[shut solar]

nah was on operation cold front as well

:)

[burnt venture]

Also can we stop talking about buffing tanks. It's always buffs buffs buffs, that literally feeds straight into powercreep. Instead of buffing weaker tanks to ridiculous proportions with ridiculous stats (Read: T1 Heavy, BDR, KV-1S, T32, Tiger II, Pershing, M48 Patton, E50M, IS-7, 263) how about nerfing some of the stronger tanks and asking for reasonable buffs on weaker tanks.

The more the playerbase cries for buffs the more WG buffs tanks because buffing tanks makes everyone happy until a year down the line when every tank just has ridiculous statistics

[deep shadow]

Ah. Ok. I’m fine with a 60TP, IS-7, and Yoh nerf as long as the E5 and FV215B is buffed in their DPM and turret traverse. I feel that the Maus and Kran also deserves a buff… not reversion but somewhere in between. 50% decrease in turret traverse is a bit too much right? Too bad IS-7’s return to the spotlight was so short! 😦

60TP: Nerf mobility and HP because the gun’s accuracy according to some is trash.

Yoh: Nerf mobility and pen and dpm on both guns

Concept 1 B: does the Concept 1 B need a nerf once the E5’s traverse (doesn’t need to be pre-8.1… just above) and dpm is buffed back

[orchid grove]

Really, WG just needs to nerf YoH, 60TP, and concept 1B

[sleek grove]

Imagine stepping on your own tail and nerfing c1b💀

[main tulip]

Nerf object 268 4 alpha

[burnt venture]

I really don't see a need to nerf the Concept 1B. The tank is overhyped by the community and has pretty big limitations especially the low alpha and the 2800 DPM, which is just average. On top of that, hulldown heavy tanks with zero weakspots are a dime a dozen at tier X anyway. The only difference is that Concept has mobility, which is useless to anyone but the top players. We already have tons of similar, braindead hulldown tanks like Super Conq and Kranvagn at tier X anyway.

The stats will be insanely inflated right now simply because people usually don't know how to deal with new tanks, and in the case of any new tier X tank unicums will play it like mad for at least a few updates.

And unlike concept which is a normal tank, YOH and 60TP have stupid gimmicks like reverse tracks, 900 damage in 1.7 seconds, special consumables (especially tungsten). Those are the real issues ruining games right now is the high amounts of tanks with special consumables and the insane amount of autoloaders that have been put into the game.

[thin ermine]

This game used to have good updates and bad updates but recently its just been constant bad…

New balancing policies are excessively stupid
Adding super consumables to tanks with little regard to game balance is stupid
The blatant buffing of tanks when pbr is added is stupid
Who thought making the 60tp ammorack garbage would be a good balancing factor?
Ghost factory med side is stupid
And now they’re gonna add this stupid mechanic where anything that gets hit by the LT is spotted for 20 seconds.

These pbr graphical improvements are nice, but gameplay always beats graphics, and the gameplay is going downhill at a rate I’ve never seen before in 6 years of playing this game, and at this rate, I can’t see myself retaining any interest in this game a year or two down the road.

[twin egret]

Still no answer in #devs-answers

[main tulip]

I prefer aesthetics to gameplay :(

[sleek grove]

Too bad wg team either looks at 2 short messages here, or none, it's all about what they do, they ask us about small things that are going to be implemented.
Once WG comes up with an idea, community won't be enough to get that from their heads.
Unfortunately this is the problem with big games.
Atgm tanks is the only fight community was able to win against devs. Doubt it will happen again . They asked us questions more than half a year ago and they are yet to answer, not even hinting towards that.
Game stalling and gets more and more boring, but that's its fate ig

[burnt venture]

The most hilarious thing they did was the balancing change, I still don't understand why they even did that.

• Obviously, tier 7 and below have ZERO balancing issues and are perfectly balanced. Well done dvarish, let's implement that to higher tiers.

• The system creates massive power rifts between tiers, due to the issuing of blanket buffs of entire tiers. At lower tiers, top tier tanks absolutely rule and bottom tier tanks basically do next to nothing against higher tier tanks. We DO NOT want this kind of crap in the game.

• Forcing tanks that can play multiple roles into certain roles is terrible in a game where variety is king

• Stupid balancing decisions that skyrocket or dunk tank statistics into the ground (Zero reason to randomly massively buff tank stats to the best in the tier)

• Rebalancing certain tanks to fit their "role" better without considering the consequences of the tank being able to play multiple roles (best example: SU-130PM buff into "sniper" role, Su-101 nerf as "assault TD" role, absolute garbage)

Overall, it's a hilarious, one-dimensional approach with zero common sense and shows that WG doesn't understand their own game and how it works.

[winter heron]

@deep shadow if all tanks are above average, then they're perfectly average. You don't seem to understand that.

The game will never be perfectly balanced. That's fine. They don't have to be. As long as a tank is fairly close to the average winrate for tanks of that type, no changes need to be made. I think that every update WG should just nerf the top performing tank and buff the worst performing tanks of each type.

If you try to modify too many tanks at once, you shift the qualities of the average tank, which means that you'll throw the game out of balance. Small incremental changes don't change the average as much, which makes the result of a buff/nerf easier to predict, improving the overall quality of the changes.

[thin ermine]

Nobody understands why WG changed the way they balance tanks… it was likely a reason too abstract for any player to think of. All I know is that its gonna drive all the good players out and the gameplay will be (somehow) even more awful.

I would say I doubt wg plays their own game, but I know they don’t play their own game. Theres no way such decisions would even get past the brainstorming phase if they did.

[drowsy plaza]

The Balance Charts where always skewed due to RU data and the fact their META is different that EU and NA. However the balance charts did give a decent example of how tanks where performing - they artificially hid along with the type balanced MM how imbalanced HT where however, and the fact that it takes a great more skill to have equal results in a medium tank. They did however at least allow for some semblance of diversity in tank characteristics. The pros of certain things where mostly balanced by negatives in others. Now we have this new method of ‘balance’ and bizarre methods of ‘diversity’ (stupid consumables and provisions). I really wish we could roll back to a pre 3.8 equipment system and no bizarre features added.

[winter heron]

No doubt that their current balancing philosophy is beyond absurd, along with the whole idea of super consumables being more important than tank characteristics to WG.

My point was strictly in favour of implementing smaller, more moderate changes to the game rather than a massive array of sweeping changes like @deep shadow was suggesting. His suggestions above also involve making every tank the best version of itself: buffing prog gun handling, 263 gun handling, etc, leaving no room for weakness.

The best thing about the 113 and the 263 is the fact that it has a big weakness, and you have to learn to play with it. Learning to adapt to the weaknesses of each tank is what keeps the game fun.

[drowsy plaza]

@winter heron I just ignored his idea as it really wasn’t worth discussing.

[winter heron]

Lmao fair enough. I should do that more often.

[sharp saddle]

Never forget the random 1° hull traverse nerf they gave the SU–100M1 a couple of updates ago

[distant river]

It was totally deserved smh

[sharp saddle]

Or the mobility nerf the SU–101 received recently.
I think someone at the balancing department has it out for these two tanks

[stuck acorn]

or the 2 mm of standard shell pen buff on some tank like one or two updates ago, i don't remember on what exactly it was tho

[scarlet fjord]

extremely influential innit

[gleaming apex]

supermorec#1292 has been warned.

[drowsy plaza]

But honestly the minor tweaks are better than ridiculous nerfs or buffs.

I’d rather see 10 incremental changes to a tank than a large one

[golden turret]

Kran and maus don’t need a buff. Just stop at that right there

[jagged crescent]

Nah buff the Maus gun back to its old dispersion

[whole nebula]

For tanks, no, we all in same boat with luck, pc has a better chance in gameplay, but you can’t pick ur teammates

[solid scaffold]

i mean why would you go with meds in such a slow tank, its a hulldown heavy

[fickle light]

50B with 60TP turret armor profile

[indigo skiff]

I think the T110E5 and Fv215B need buffs. Due to the nerfs they received, no one plays them now or very less people play them. w
WG said that they would reduce the hulldown meta,(I think they did, as everyone says this,correct me if I am wrong) But then they put the Kranvagn,60Tp and Yoh in the game.

[prisma jetty]

They wanted to try to get rid of heavies taking meds place, then they introduced the 60TP and buffed the IS-7 which are both just better meds

[winged barn]

Sure, but blatantly overpreforming or underpowered tanks getting completely ignored?
Really stupid balancing

[silk hamlet]

task failed successfully

[dry rivet]

Is it just me or does the 60tp have a fragile ammunition rack?

[sleek grove]

Apparently yes, but in my experience, I've never been ammoracked, maybe I have had it damaged at some point, but the key is to get loads of module protection

[dry rivet]

I can’t play heavy tanks well, I’m just wondering because I’ve been hitting the ammo many times lately

[willow hawk]

You play like an assassin. Just like how you beat me at every track race when we were kids 😩

[winter heron]

Yeah, but most of the time it's not a problem, since getting ammoracked is still very rare. It does get damaged slightly more often though, which can be really annoying. Always carry two repair kits

[sleek grove]

i always carry a multi purpose, adrenaline and tungsten, gotta make use of those special consumables somehow

[unique scaffold]

Who thinks the AT 15A is balanced

[sleek grove]

its a solid tank, has armor, its speed shouldnt exceed human walking speed anyway.
the gun is its selling point, fast firing, pew pew , perma track potential, and decent gun arc, best in frontline with your teammates, do be alone(this applies to any tank) and have map awarness as it can save you from being shot from behind

[upbeat sphinx]

Don't have it, but I think it is solid. Honestly don't know if it is better than the t28htc.

[unique scaffold]

U can't really pen it with apcr rounds and then reload speed is better then most tanks which is op

[sleek grove]

<@&481447501690568709> sussy baka link

[outer glen]

Day8 of asking for sta1 buff 💀
55km and 100-200+ dpm pls
Ok thanks
And <@&481447501690568709> ^^ nitro

[vague nimbus]

113 hull traverse buff when 😭

[empty nexus]

113 would be good if the traverse was good, but then they need to nerf the rest of the tank quite a bit

[dusty vine]

Wg’s to-do-list

Maus can pen other maus turret (ap).
E100 cant pen other E100 turret (ap).
Conclusion: i shouldn’t have grinded for the maus. Pls buff it.

Annihilator and smasher can preform well in tier 8. Thats why i hate tier 7.

Toxicity still exists in WOT Blitz after years.

Matchmaking is still haunted after 7 years. Steamrolls almost every game. Not spectacular. And no fun. Clutch games almost never seen by me.

Wg waited too long and doesnt listen to the players. They have work to do. If they want more good players, its time to get in the action.

(My opinion. Hope its a democracy here…….)

[twin egret]

I hope that stupid tank gets nerfed to the ground

[outer glen]

Why nerf 120 traverse to the ground?
Its not supposed to have hts traverse speed it doesnt have any good armor to rely on

[sleek grove]

why???
it already turns like a ship, it has mediocre armor and amazing dpm, let it be

[twin egret]

I hate the tank because why not

[winged barn]

Apply for a job at the weegee balancing department, that mentality fits right in

[sleek grove]

tbh this is how they balance tank imo
dev : i hate X tank for no reason
other devs : yeah seems about right, -500dpm, only 1 degree of gun dep, absolute garbage aim

[frail silo]

maybe
if you angled the maus turret a little bit
just maybe

[sleek grove]

ppl seem to forget that skill is a big part on how a tank performs.

[scarlet fjord]

why is everyone trying to buff either extremely strong tanks or meta tanks lol
and 113 is an incredible tank doesn't need any buffs
tanks like E4's need buffs not 113's

[gleaming apex]

Commander Cat#0274 has been warned.

[drowsy plaza]

E100 has a turret ring you can pen that with AP or load gold.

[hollow timber]

Nitro for <@&481447501690568709>

[winged barn]

The mods getting all this free nitro

I want some :(

[sleek grove]

click on it too, i try everytime to get some of those but mods keep it for themselves 😔

[tender drift]

The greed is real 😅

[thin ermine]

WG is dead set on making every tank in the game follow one of ten different roles they set out (view: #devs-answers) Rip actual balance and uniqueness

[outer glen]

Roles doesnt mean its balanced

[thin ermine]

Exactly

[drowsy plaza]

Roles seems to mean cookie cutter type tanks. I’m pretty sure who ever came up with this idea hasn’t played Blitz above tier 5

[steel iris]

Slow like a baby turtle, and very weak armor. Who wants to play this big loser, t8 premium turtle Mk 1? Look at the WG's ads below.

Head-on encounters are the Turtle's favorite time for small talk. This is thanks to its solid armor with 152 mm at the front and 127 mm on the sides. That means enemy shells will be as harmless as a friendly pat on the shoulder! Of course, one should mind their manners when communicating with strangers, and that's exactly why the Turtle Mk. I joins the battle—to teach ill-mannered fighters a lesson.😩That friendly pat will send u to garage for sure!

[full token]

its getting an armor buff next update

[steel iris]

@full token Need buff the front armor to 250. And speed.....25? Otherwise u r depending on your teammates to protect.

[full token]

The upper bar gets 203mm now, and the area between the sloped plate and lower plate is buffed to 203mm too. Speed doesn’t change

[cursive schooner]

<@&481447501690568709> some more Nitro for y’all I’m jealous

[outer glen]

203mm flat plate still an easy pen at tier8
Should be like jag 8.8 260mm at the cheeks between the gun

And if they really want to make the hts as their so called "roles"
They should buff their armor a little bit (is8,50120 and wz ht tier9) bcuz they are getting nerfed (-5km max speeed)

[outer glen]

And why t54e1 doesnt have HE shells

[whole nebula]

No idea why there’s only 2 she’ll types in the t54e1, I actually like the tank, despite its many weaknesses… it needs a little armour on the upper plate maybe, because nothing gets stopped reliably, even for a medium… now the turtle is absolute garbage, if it wasn’t free I’d be upset with my life decisions, looking forward to the buff maybe, but it’s still a turtle..

[tough stone]

And this channel is for balance discussion.

How pc and wotb are different from each other? Tanks and mechanics?

[stuck acorn]

Tanks, mechanics, matchmaking, maps, bascially everything

[sleek grove]

I mean most core mechanics are in both games, but the rest differs so much

[stuck acorn]

Well that's obious as blitz at the start was just smaller version of WoT PC, bascially everything except for graphic maps and number o tanks was the same. Game developed quite a lot trough those years yho and now these games aren't even similar when it comes to most things

[remote oriole]

Discrods. Lol <@&481447501690568709>

[scarlet fjord]

WG: T54E1 310 alpha damage 3 shell (Auto loader) doesn't get to have HE
Also WG: Standard B 350 alpha damage 3 shell (auto reloader) 105 HESH
BaLaNcEd

[frail silo]

that is flat plate, maybe angle and shoot over ridges?
it shouldn't be bouncing on flat ground.
and frankly, the jag is absurd with that armor in tier 8

[drowsy plaza]

Not MM other than tank matching discussion.

[drowsy plaza]

Don’t forget K-91 alpha buff as a heavy with a 100mm gun, that has 350 alpha now, more armor, Hp and HE shells. Nearly the same DPM very similar gun handling and just slightly worse eff HP/T

[shadow helm]

um why did i lose credits? i didnt use any premium shells and my modules barely took damage, and i only used to consumables, i didnt know it costed so much lmao

[still jolt]

It's not, nothing like E25. It's way bigger, almost anything can penetrate it with HE unlike E25 which is harded to hit as its smaller, and it has a bad penetration for a td thats supposed to be quick. Theres no time for aiming in paper like this. All you can do in it is camp basically. But with this Alpha it's not a tank for camping.

[deep shadow]

lol @winter heron Don't do what Crusader suggested please! 😄 lol

[winter heron]

Uh... your idea was really bad, and I've explained why. I did so over 24 hours ago, let it go.

And yeah I'll do what Crusader suggested, because you're not worth my time.

Please don't ping me about a discussion that's over a day old.

[quasi axle]

Hey, be nice!

[winter heron]

Sorry. I'll be nice.

[deep shadow]

Hypothetical scenario where the nerfs of update 8.2 (Maus, FV215B, E5, IS-4, Kran, and super speed boost) did not happen. This is what I predict would have been the situation currently if the nerfs of update 8.2 didn't occurred.

8.1 didn't occurred hypothetical scenario/Current scenario

E5: above average (consumables)/below average
Yoh: average/above average
T57: average/average
T95E6: below average/below average
Concept 1 B: average/above average

OBJ 260: below average/below average
IS-7: above average (that combo and RNG boost)/above average
IS-4: average (competitive against IS-7 because of HP, PRAMO, and DPM; similar armor profiles and turret traverse)/below average

VK 90: above average/above average
VK 72: below average… slightly buff sides and DPM? (I personally feel that nothing is needed)/below average
E100: average (Does it need any buffs? I personally don’t think so… some players: increase the front of the armor by 3~7 millimeters)/below average
Maus: average/average

Chieftain: average/average
Super Conq: average/average
FV215B: average (not below average cause of consumables)… buff armor sides? (I don't think it needs anything more)/below average

50B: average/average
AMX M4 54: average/average

WZ-113: average (could make the sides and edges of the tank spaced armor; I don't think it needs any buffs)/average
WZ 5A: below average (just a worse IS-7?)/below average

Kran: above average (cause of those consumables)/below average
60-TP: average (cause of that gun handling)/above average

Is this a fairly accurate prediction and assessment of the current situation?

[neat crescent]

I get the feeling that what you're trying to say above is, equal tanks at t10, well, somewhat , bc skill diff, diff play styles, situational map stuff and etc etc

[steel iris]

So true. They won't be able to sale one turtle 🐢 mk 1 even after the 8.7 buff. Everyone knows it suck.

[unique scaffold]

welll then take this even tho its not complete :

[deep shadow]

If 8.2 didn't happened/reversion of 8.2 Tourney HT meta: E5, Yoh (debatable since E5 is back), IS-7, VK90, Maus, 50B, Kran, IS-4 (2 800 hp + HEAT + average armor/extremely debatable lol), and 60 TP.

Current Tourney HT meta: Yoh, IS-7, 50B, 60 TP, and VK90 (Yes, I know. The Maus is still used (a lot less often today though). The Maus will always be used until its HP and armor is nerfed)

@neat crescent Exactly... the solution I have shown above isn't perfect (MT-like HTs, super consumables, ripple effect, unforeseen, indirect nerfs to the TD and MT classes, and etc).. but it's one step to even out the HTs (easiest class to play between all the classes)
I don't have Nitro... 😦

[unique scaffold]

same i dont have nitro but look : obj 704 hp was less then tog II which is a tier 6 we are talking bout here.... and wt.auf.pz.iv is just broken coz u shoot with turret then back up fast so they spot it when it goes back .... ho ri 2 is good but armour is little over .. jagdtiger have really good dpm and front armour.... then what about obj 704??? my fav tank is isu but it also have same proplems ... since we spend million days researching ISU-152 models then why we go to obj.704 to see a turtle..bad..low hp...low dpm tank?

[main tulip]

Object 704 has better dpm than the 268 at the cost of being mediocre at everything else, which is strange. Imo they should significantly reduce the dpm but buff the armor and mobility a bit

[quick lichen]

You wrote all that for what?

[quasi axle]

What're you trying to say exactly

[deep shadow]

Yes... just stating an assessment... thoughts about it? Everyone, anyone?... I have tons more 100 messages above... 😄

[whole nebula]

@deep shadow well I can’t say I pay that much attention… given that “we” the player base call each other nubs, AND noone can agree what a good idea is, I can only conclude (in the devs absence) that they at least tried something THEN look at the changes in human-to-tank Battle figures and any other things like survivability or damage, can always change things again at a painfully slow rate because there’s only a small team of devs getting barraged by every players Wishlist and still add extra things yo the game, good and Also pointless like the thumbs up/down AND temporary avatars lol,

[uneven narwhal]

Yes but you see, heavies would've been further dominant leaving the other classes behind
IS-4, Kran, and E5 would've competed with the current HT meta giving them something to actually put effort against but that means it makes harder for the other classes to fight against them as well than it already is

[ebon sierra]

ㅎ

[willow hawk]

Everytime I see you, man, it’s not a fart exploding in my face. It’s your lengthy paragraphs exploding my screen.

[deep shadow]

@uneven narwhal
Heavies in World of Tanks Blitz are like the cornerstone species of the ecosystem (because Wargaming already made them so dominant and influential for years).

Here's the outline (in order)that I thought of to balance the classes and tanks within each class:

1. Rebuff Maus, FV215B, E5, IS-4, Kran, and super speed boost to pre-8.1 stats (7 months before major tourneys please)
2. Buff all TD's HPs by 50 ~150 (Jg has 2100 now)
3. Make minor buffs to individual tanks in the MT and TD classes that aren't performing (After OBJ268 V4 release)
4. Check statistics and players feedback
5. If necessary, make minor buffs to underperforming HT tanks (before Japanese HTs)
   6. If necessary, make major nerfs to the HT class (HP, DPM, HT spotting, and gun handling) @whole nebula Thanks! Forgotten about spotting

What do you guys thing?
@wicked quest

@whole nebula True..... some of us should study/word hard and maybe become a dev for Wargaming... or takeover Wargaming via financial means...

@willow hawk Thanks! 😄 Glad that you're also an enjoyer of Star Wars too! @stable tusksequellegends
😄 My smiles also explode on your screen

[wicked quest]

Is everyone avoiding the elephant this is horrifically bad we want heavies to be nerfed not rebuffed and increasing HP esp for TDs is not the solution taking player stats is also not viable because a good portion of the player base can not figure out how to paint their tank

[main tulip]

I would say only buff HP on TDs that are supposed to have armor/frontline, like badger and jag
Remove super speed boost and buff the mobility of tanks that had it, except e3
Nerf yoh and 60TP
I also think TDs and meds should get their old penetration back, like jag 420 heat and 268 395mm

[whole nebula]

My opinion is nerf ht spotting, increase light and med spotting, tds get more stealth rating from firing not while moving, give some hts a turret rotation speed increase, that is worth a shot to get meds looking, hts bouncing and tds are forced to support the front humans..
they need to buff the cool-down recovery time in most chats, I have to shave after I read the reply’s

[deep shadow]

Very true about the recovery time.... so long... we don't spam... it's detrimental to discussions... HTs have enough turret rotation once step 1 is finished... HTs don't need more... it wouldn't help MTs and LTs circling and flanking HTs (MTs and LTs are never meant to brawl with most HTs, except Germans.... that argument is flawed)

Some TDs should definitely get a higher camo rating... especially paper cannons like Grille.... WT is actually a better Grille in my opinion... all one needs is to buff WT's HP and viola.

@main tulip It is very controversial to remove super speed boost... I would say impossible... with so many tanks (tier 10, 9, 8, and 7) merged to super speed boost... it is very hard to eventually, if not suddenly, balance everything... 60 TP and Yoh doesn't really need a nerf if step 1 were to be implemented both tanks will have tough indirect competition (60 TP vs E5 and Yoh vs Kran).

TDs really should get their some of their old pen back (however, that would make the Hori average and not special anymore).. Mts not so much because of their dpm, armor, and mobility (hulldown mts wiggling their turrets can bounce more than most HT's turrets)

[radiant hatch]

Opinion: If WotB is going to give russian lights a spotting buff they should give all light of a certain era a spotting buff. And because they are going to have emergency tracks, all tanks of a certain era should also get emergency tracks like the yoh

[whole nebula]

No one seems to adopt the server lag as an issue at all, it’s like it is in the player base heads…

[frail silo]

because it indeed is.
my connection isn't close to even being 5G yet i don't face lag generally

[uneven narwhal]

There are 20 hops between you and the server, essentially, 20 places where the signal has to go through to reach the server and vice verse
A fault in any one of them causes packet loss and ping, not the servers necessarily

The servers as I see it are fine, there are other factors in between giving me high ping and PL on certain networks
Install PingPlotter to check where the problem is

Try different WiFi connections/mobile hotspots
I have been getting PL on my 5G connection but the game plays fine on a 5Mbps connection

[silk hamlet]

i thought 268 still has the 395 heat?

[main tulip]

It has 380 now

[sleek grove]

Why is there a need to compare it to e25 when they are meant for different roles on the battlefield, maybe compare it to su122-54 or whatever the T7 premium Russian TD is

[upbeat sphinx]

Kannonen Is fine as it is, it is balanced around the incredible camo and view range, can work as a passive scout too.
Ap pen is decent, 300 heat is enough at tier 8. Shells velocity is the best one of the class. Gun handling best in the class. I own the tank and after a little bit I have learned how to drive it, it is not an easy playstile but still quite fun.

[static crag]

Hey anyone playing Leopard 1
do you play like its a light tank or you treat it as a medium?

[deep shadow]

both... it’s a dpm farming simulator!!! So fun! Always flank in it sfter initial spotting of at least 5 tanks of the reds... Never frontline in a Leo... even hulldown peak-a-boo never works... don’t ever face reds head on

[upbeat sphinx]

do you think type 59 needs some buff, it will be powercreept by the 122tm.

[sleek grove]

type has been powercreept by even tech tree tanks, it needs a buff but well, not gonna get it

[scenic stone]

T54E1 unloads 930 in 5s and then reloads the clip in 15.4s

Standard B needs 6s to do 1050 then 22.5s to load all 3.
And standards HE gets such miserable damage boost that you barely match T54E1's DPM with it.

Standard only really has better prammo when it comes to the gun.

[upbeat sphinx]

what aspect would you buff? dpm? pen? gun handling?

[sleek grove]

it can use a slight mobility buff and maybe a degree of gun dep as well.
maybe even a slight pen buff also idk.
im not a type 59 enjoyer

[full token]

you can fire in those 22s. Its an autoreloader. The t54e1 cant do that and needs to wait 15s to be able to fire a shot

[rancid ice]

Thanks for your opinions @uneven narwhal @wide dawn

and yes, do not try to reply a Clan member whom you hate

[sleek grove]

what does the last part of your message has to do with?

[deep shadow]

O7 Allied clan member!

[velvet fiber]

Better buff the t 44

[scenic stone]

So? It's 350 every 8.6s so not something OP.
You have to be lucky with your rolls to win in a DPM fight vs a T54E1.

That T54E1 can also dump 930 for your 700 then hide.
They're both pretty well balanced tbh.

The big downside of Standard is the fact that tanks with 85mm HE or more can and will derp you further increasing your DPM difference while E1 is fairly immune bar gold HESH.

Though honestly I wish they changed the autoloaders to be more diverse since 85% of them are 3 shot with intraclip between 2.5 and 3s. Kind of boring.

[surreal rivet]

Then you want a 6 shell auto loader? Cough cough wt e100

[stuck acorn]

maybe not 6 shot, but it would be nice to get some autoloader going out of "deal damage similar to 183 hesh in 5-6s then hide for 20 and go again". It would be nice to see something with 4x400 or something like this. Ofc it would have to pay with it's reload for that, but it would be something fresh that we don't have in the game yet

[scarlet fjord]

u can burst for 1200 dont even begin telling me that what i said was justifiable
i enjoyed the T54E1 when i grinded the 57 heavy it didnt disappoint me ngl and now it got a mobility buff too
but they should give it HE

[sleek grove]

the problem with autoreloaders in blitz is that since the games are so fast peaced u cant actually use the autoreloading mechanism properly, most ppl only use it as single shot , firing only one at the time ,to get the faster reload triggered.
others dump their whole clip then hold position firing last shell all the time, with close to 1.5k dpm or so.
others , with more flexible tanks can actually make proper use of the autoreloading mechanism by firing from distance , keeping the distance and backing off quickly when needed.

[scarlet fjord]

idk u can give it 4 shells and reduce the DPM
or 2 shells but really short inter clip or smt like this (if u want to make it different for the fun factor)
i havent played T54E1 i hope its as a sweet of a tank as back then but a lot of things and i mean A LOT of things got buffed since then so idk what its like rn exactly

[scenic stone]

Ok, how often do you burst for 1200 though? HE is too derpy to really risk it for only 50-150 extra damage tbh.

Honestly I wish it was more bursty along with T57. Like 2.2s intraclip with worse clip reload.
Frenchies could have longer intraclips with better clip reloads.

If anything makes T54E1 pointless it's the skoda T50.

@sleek grove Standard B actually has better DPM when empty at 2.4k which is 100 more then firing only the first shot while full.

Pretty much all autoreloaders have better DPM when empty except Pantera I believe