tank-balance-discussion

[uneven narwhal]

Yeah good luck penning that in the first place......

Don't tell me "just hit it when it's not hulldown", the entire game is a Hulldown Simulator, you'll rarely find anyone not going hulldown in the C1B or any tank in general@royal moon

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/502016925405151234/922534940883697725/Screenshot_807.png

[mental pasture]

Some player: "just hit it when it's not hulldown", "It can get to a hill and hull down. It does that well. But what else can it do?"

The entire hull down meta: https://c.tenor.com/MdLNN93OjCcAAAAC/rage-angry.gif

[small bough]

Even if you cant pen you could always smack it with a HE round it might not do a lot but it still does something lol

[uneven narwhal]

50? 100? 200?
You get out-traded for 380

[small bough]

You can either not shoot or shoot a ap or gold round and probably bounce OR you can shoot a HE round and do a bit of damage and possibly damage modules

[uneven narwhal]

You can
Doesn't even come close to a valid weak point for the C1B which this discussion is all about

[royal moon]

my conclusion of this discussion is ppl simply getting salty over an new shiny perfectly balanced tank since they cannot get it and start imagining things

[wicked quest]

Weren’t you complaining the other day it got nerfed too hard

[full token]

he owns it btw
In his own words, hes gambled so much for the tank. Why would he want to balance it properly

[unique scaffold]

Well that explains it

Discussing against a biased view for the tank is pretty much useless then
We are not going to change his opinion on it because he would obviously want it overpowered

I don't see a point to continue this anymore

[main tulip]

kran is tiny though
maybe not as low profile as the concept, but it's very small and lightweight for a heavy

[twin egret]

You could ram the concept 1B, it weighs 42 tons for some reason. An e 50 m could ram it for a good amount of HP

[frail silo]

the 2 people who were arguing that the c1b is balanced owned the tank 😂
yeah it makes sense why they would want to defend it, they gambled way too much for it.

[unique scaffold]

It's all coming together now 😂

[sleek grove]

C1b is op whoever says otherwise surely had pee in their cereal instead of milk

[unique scaffold]

Hulldown Simulator seems like a perfect name for this game
Time to start using it

[sleek grove]

I like how nobody talks about the premium camo on c1b, as it covers the only turret weak spot it has, talk about p2w tho 😳

[main tulip]

No one thinks the c1b isn't OP, it's just not game breakingly so like the annihilator

[jagged zephyr]

The meta in this game seems to be going the same way as wot PC... Play fast heavies maybe with autoloaders, rush into some hulldown position and either farm or just spam gold at another guy with a invulnerable turret

[full token]

Someone above did

[nimble zodiac]

Anyone with half of a braincell can know you can shoot through

[sleek grove]

U definitely haven't experienced wotb teams in a while

[unique scaffold]

You can yes and knowledgeable players will know about it
For players who have not seen the tank before or it's armor profile, nope

[leaden flare]

I have it and it's broken op even in tours against people that know how to aim and so on
You're just delusional, even people from the best EU clans consider it absolutely broken op
Then again what do I expect from someone that can't even pick the role for his server 😅 correct me if I'm wrong but weren't u on Apac

[empty nexus]

C1B is broken when hulldown, 0 weakpoints, even gold can’t do anything. Very strong side armour, Good hull armour, Fast af, good DPM. It’s OP, end of

258 pen IS ENOUGH to do well against heavies, 310 HEAT pen is also perfectly good if you know how to aim. I run my heavies on Rammer(unless they’re an Autoloader) after I realized how useless Calibrated was.

The Pen is fine, DPM at 2.8K is good, alpha is a bit subpar but when you can sit on a ridge and Never get penned, It’s just a damage farm, because you’re doing 380 damage and the enemy is doing 0. It’s also very accurate.

Wargaming messed up badly on balancing the Concept, It’s another T22 medium, But this time it’s a heavy, a hulldown Heavy with a gun like the 215B’s, may I add.

The only people who claim it’s balanced are the ones who’ve spent loads on it, Love it for its OP-ness and clearly don’t want it nerfed, so they deny it’s strong and call it balanced in the hopes it won’t be nerfed. Even then quite a few People who own it say and know that it’s broken.

Incoming Concept 1B, Yoh and 60TP tournament comp meta

[exotic goblet]

My conclusion is that your arguments are biased and yes, i am getting salty. Not because of the c1b, but because of reading the excess amount of "an" instead of "a", im not someone who usually picks on grammar, but for some reason this triggers me

[hybrid vault]

hi

[stuck acorn]

yeah i also saw that. Why won't WG just automatically turn off all attachments and 3d parts of camo when going into sniper mode? That would shut the problem once and for good

[formal rose]

I thought that the new auto-aim would be in this version but I suppose it still had many errors, but the current one feels less compared to the new one if you compare them.

[royal moon]

so many dudes dont even know the feather is invisible when aimed, clearly hasnt faced an 1b and imagining things, dont wanna argue anymore. either with concept 1b or not i will still totally dominate potatoes/tomatoes liike u guys in battle

[wicked quest]

I’ve already killed 3 concepts the past week it seems like your trying to brag about it but failing we’ve already had enough opinions from the more experienced clans and veteran players all disagree or would correct you

[leaden flare]

Well all I heard is that you're a somewhat reroll would you mind supplying any kind of proof that it's not the case
You've often said 60%+ and 2k AVG

Those stats aren't that good 😅

[royal moon]

wont disclose for privacy, but heres is my 60tp, the stats reveal it all, edit: i really liked how the potatoes/tomatoes went silent after this

[prisma jetty]

You’re trying to flex in one of the strongest tanks in the game lol. 60TP is easy to perform well in

[leaden flare]

I'm not that amazing of a player and yet mine are 400 AVG higher😅

My point stands c1b just broken as hell

[wicked quest]

Doesnt bring up any actually useful stats and uses the 60tp of all things as an example real nice and doesn’t look like silence

[royal moon]

winrate isnt impressive, anyone can do damage

[leaden flare]

35 battles isn't impressive either its 100 or nothing if you already want to flex wr
How to add in a picture after posting halp

@drowsy plaza well yeah but i mean generally speaking it's what Blitzstars uses for you to get ranked for all-time etc I wouldnt consider newbie MM and queue literally everything done there is irrelevant

[sleek grove]

those stats are so bad lololololol

[drowsy plaza]

100 battles isn’t even that significant in the grand scheme. Plus depending on server can be done in new player queue where a lot of decent but not great players can get 3k avg in tier 7.

[wicked quest]

Sooo potentially trust what a 50% would say about concept or a 60+% id rather trust a blue berry than a green apple

[drowsy plaza]

So I’m still surprised about the Concept 1B rage and no one is complaining about the elephant in the room.

[exotic goblet]

damage isn't impressive, anyone can win

[unique scaffold]

Send the photo you want to add to some other server and right click on it, copy link
Edit your message you want to add the image in and paste the link, the photo should pop up in a few seconds
On mobile, open the photo you sent somewhere else, hit the share button on top, copy link, and paste

[royal moon]

troll get the frick out

[sleek grove]

im not a troll im just stating facts , dont flex with those, and listen to better players
u know nothing

the stats are fineish, id be fine to meet him as a teammate instead of others, but he shouldnt flex

[uneven narwhal]

Nice stats mate but 35 battles in a broken tank is not exactly flexable

[leaden flare]

@lofty iris they are okayish at best

[lofty iris]

The stats are fine mate

[exotic goblet]

not for someone with an ego as big as the planet

[empty nexus]

They’re Okay-ish at best. Especially for a tank as good as 60TP.

[royal moon]

lol big mouth, show ur stats already

[sharp saddle]

Best to just end it because this conversation isn’t going anywhere and is pointless

[modest musk]

make ammo for not free again

[mental pasture]

Why?

I see

[frail silo]

i think he meant revert economy changes

[empty nexus]

Blitzstars.

[quasi axle]

Showing stats and not giving ign means you didn't show stats

[mental pasture]

I'm gonna use @quasi axle 's stats and say they're mine

[rain ivy]

What might that be? I've been a bit busy lately so I haven't had time for discord for a good hunk of the day.

[mental pasture]

There's no elephant in my room. There's floor, roof, 4 walls, 2 halls, a Christmas tree, my setup, a rack, my TV, a door, a few books, a lamp, a fan, some keys, a carpet, a couch and also me.

[thick rover]

60TP bottom lower glacis nerf pls

[nimble zodiac]

The only real nerf you can do is to make the VLFP overmatchable, from 50mm to maybe 40mm

It's far too insigficant

[scenic stone]

Hey WG, when will you fix this broken spaced armor overmatching bug? It completely breaks sidescraping as a tactic on majority of tanks.

[formal rose]

There is an error in the armor highlighting when a 40TP habicha is aimed at the hull of a Phanter, it appears completely penetrable it seemed strange to me, I shoot but when firing all the shots bounce, the highlight is supposed to be completely red if however it appears completely penetrable .

[hearty steeple]

Penetration has +/-5% rng on it. It is impossible to make a perfectly accurate armor highlighting system

[nimble zodiac]

Yeah pretty sure you low rolled on penetration, the armor models of the tank are very deceptive...

[unique scaffold]

That is not a bug, that is a weakspot for the tank
Although you shouldn't be concerned about it, that's a tiny strip that barely anyone will hit, knowledgeable players will aim for it surely but RNG and Dispersion exist so they most likely won't hit

@formal rose Can you send the replay so we could check it in detail?

[scenic stone]

That's not a weakspot.
That strip is a 50mm plate angled at 80⁰ vs a 122mm gun that should autobounce at 70⁰. But because you hit tracks first the shell completely ignores the autobounce rule.

And its not a "tiny strip that barely anyone will hit". In that game I nailed the guy 3 times through that massive weakspot and got penned myself once.
It's the main reason why I don't bother to sidescrape in IS4 at all.

[unique scaffold]

Understood, you mean the spaced armor and 3CR complication where the game calculates 3CR for spaced armor/external modules and since it passes, attempts a penetration at 70°+ despite calibre not being above 3 times armor thickness
I see my bad, the thing completely missed my thoughts

About the strip though, just because you got 4 shots in doesn't exactly mean it's easily pennable now
It's still a tiny strip that can be covered by wiggling and honestly a balancing factor to some extent 🙃

[nimble zodiac]

I like to call it '3CR Bypass'

[scenic stone]

Exactly that, 3CR completely breaks after hitting spaced armor and makes anything with less than 90-100mm of side armor completely useless at sidescraping.

And sorry, but that spot is extremely easily hit and penned.
258 AP pen can track and damage IS4 from 85⁰.
That is basically him not even sidescraping but facing you and you just killed his mobility and did damage.
There isn't any wiggling that will save you either because they're either hitting that massive strip that runs along your side or you move an inch and your lower plate is in their sights.

[unique scaffold]

Agree to disagree

[formal rose]

I found this in the armor inspector and according to it the shot at that angle had a 100% chance of penetrating but still not a single shot penetrated
@unique scaffold I send in the last message.

[nimble zodiac]

I have a very confident feeling neither woti or BH have updated their profiles for the P/M10

[unique scaffold]

You rolled too low on the penetration ±5% deviation

This is the shot from Map Inspector, cross checked with the correct timestamp

[formal rose]

If you look closely most of the shots I did not shoot in the upper helmet if not in the lower one and one that I could not aim very well and was a bit high but I tried to get all the shots to the lower part but they still bounced but Still shouldn't it look red for the 40TP in that upper chassis.

[unique scaffold]

That is the shot in question in Map Inspector

[prisma jetty]

1. This doesn't really relate to balance.
2. NA is already small, moving half the server to another one will make queue times skyrocket

[nimble zodiac]

Tank balance, mind you.

[prisma jetty]

I mean, if you want to have 5-10 minute wait times for battles, keep asking for this lol. Otherwise, use them as extra hp or stat padding targets

[safe rapids]

I’m sure not all of them are noobs. Some are genuinely good players to be fair, and I know enough Spanish to understand them some of the time in battle. I’ve paired up with some of them and had some awesome teamwork games. It seemed like you were stereotyping there and I don’t condone that. Learn a bit of Spanish if you can, especially since the Spanish speaking population in the US is going to massively increase in the next 10-20 years or so and it’ll help a LOT.

[unique scaffold]

If they are noobs, you should be grateful to them as you are farming them
Why do people take noobs only negatively, without noobs, you are going to get no one to farm, no high damage games, sweating every match just to get a decent result, paying heavily for every mistake you make because no one is a noob now...

[safe rapids]

Wisdom. If there were no noobs, there’d be no difference of skill in games. If you want to go into a training room and have everything your way so be it.

[oblique otter]

are other people not allowed to enjoy games just because of their skills?

[frail silo]

sheesh this reply reeks of some race tones

[twin egret]

🤨

[hollow timber]

Lmao

[nimble zodiac]

Tank balance, not MM <3

[twin egret]

Imagine Caliban in Blitz tho

[buoyant path]

God bless the pour souls that face it if it comes.

[nimble zodiac]

Uh oh <@&481447501690568709> done did it 👍

[worthy basin]

yeeted =)

[empty nexus]

I’d honestly Love the Caliban to come into blitz, looks like a fun tank lol

[stuck acorn]

it's actually wrong. I can confirm @formal rose 's words. When you aim into upper plate of panther m10 with fro example T49 on HE or smasher with HE it will appear grey even tho it's obvious you won't penetrate. Nobody actually cares about hit skin of this tank, because nearly nobody plays that thing, but it's definetly not working properly

[uneven narwhal]

Cent 7/1 needed a turret armor buff what?

[gleaming apex]

Nisk#0420 was banned

[latent snow]

Usually a tank stays visible for 10 seconds once it escapes the field of visibility right after being spotted. But if the Object 84 or the T-100 LT hits an enemy tank it will be spotted for 20 seconds!

Can you just make it normal these gimmicks are just dumb

[safe rapids]

Hell no…

[heavy hollow]

it would be terrifing for tier 7s

[empty nexus]

😂 brings back memories of T49 ATM that came into the game ages ago, nightmare for my T-43

Big scary papa KV2. KV2’s British Uncle 😂

I’d imagine it would have abysmal DPM, like 1.2k or something

[mental pasture]

I wonder how much time it'll take to premiums start abusing of mechanics that we previously have, like emergency tracks

[thin merlin]

please leave for me a Kpfpz-70

[hearty steeple]

Idk. But 20 seconds spotting time doesn't sound too balanced to me, albeit it occurs only after they tag a tank.

Well possibly the best aggressive scouts incoming ig.

[mental pasture]

Can I feel a light tank on the meta for the first time in ages?

[smoky elm]

They just add new tanks thats gonna be better than rest, t57 goest to yoh bc goest to sheri then to vickers, e100 to 60tp ect just older tanks gonna be bad against new, new mechanic on yoh. New consumambles on 60tp

[silk hamlet]

e100 is still ok imo

[uneven narwhal]

WG passion
Ruining T10 since 8.0 ggez

[gleaming apex]

admiralsandecker#4053 was muted

[civic topaz]

Fix what?

[uneven narwhal]

T-100 LT complete stats, fresh from 8.6

[prisma jetty]

Here’s some hidden stats as well. P/W is pretty strong, and this thing will never need to aim due to insane dispersion values (This is with both foods and big fuel as well)

[pine jetty]

The 20 second spotting mechanic is almost as dumb as tungsten shells, why does this exist just be normal it isn't that hard

[prisma jetty]

Next thing you know the new Japanese heavies will have actual ERA, because why not

[hollow timber]

Fair enough 😂

[indigo knot]

what is ERA

[hollow timber]

Explosive Reactive Armor

is a type of vehicle armour that reacts in some way to the impact of a weapon to reduce the damage done to the vehicle being protected. It is most effective in protecting against shaped charges and specially hardened kinetic energy penetrators.

[silk hamlet]

basically extra armor that disappears when it gets hit

[dark pike]

wg cannot create a new tech tree line without introducing new mechanics

[hearty steeple]

Can't wait for ebr to outdo t100lt

[indigo knot]

I am just waiting what special thing they are gonna give to RHM flipwagen when it is introduced in the game

[unique scaffold]

Nerf T1 Heavy, as much as I like using it. It needs to be nerfed.

[uneven narwhal]

I don't get why WG is so keen to ruin T10 balance by constantly changing core mechanics
The tracks on the Yoh
The quite literal RNG bias consumable on 60TP

Now spotting range?
What's next, something increasing penetration or a tank gaining back HP because yes?

[hearty steeple]

Don't forget the atgms for a year

[mental pasture]

The tracks on Yoh are rather balanced, I never had problems with t

[unique scaffold]

The tracks themselves are yes
But considering how broken the tank is on a whole, the last thing it needs is un perma-trackability
While it's only -4kmph, it's still greater than 0 which gives you an opportunity to back up if both of your repair kits are on CD, unlike a normal tank, who would've stayed there in place and gotten farmed

[frail silo]

tracks are very op in hulldown positions

[empty nexus]

I’m happy conq turret and Tortoise are getting buffed. YESSSS

[unique scaffold]

People: cry that there is nothing new being added to the game they have been playing for 7 years

WG: adds new mechanic

People: WAAAWAAWAAAA ITS BROKEN WAAAAH

[real bison]

no, it’s because the new mechanic breaks one of the longest standing mechanics in spotting

also, no one has been complaining that there has been nothing new for 7 years

[unique scaffold]

Well people always want new things, and the purpose of the mechanic is to keep things spotted if they get shot, it's another hazard to the game and it makes sense, also I'm afraid if they remove the mechanic it's gonna make it another meh tank like the sheridan, because we totally need another tier X 100mm.

[uneven narwhal]

This is already far from meh

[remote oriole]

It doesn‘t really break spotting. So much freaking out

[cursive schooner]

Is this with equipment?

Ty but what the actual that’s gonna be 59 camo and 3500 dpm just stupid

@neat hare oh no I haven’t even thought of this

[neat hare]

Imo new mechanics added to only certain lines just makes certain lines useless to play. Why play a vickers and spot tanks when you can play a Russian light that when you shoot something they stay spotted rather than having to respot for 20 seconds? There's other attributes sure but.. yknow what I mean

I'm scared for what mechanic is coming to Japanese heavies later on.. really scared

[real bison]

We don’t need new mechanics

new tanks that are actually balanced are fine enough

[unique scaffold]

I would much rather have more strategy involved in my games rather than having the same damn tanks shooting eachother with absolutely nothing changed, it's the only light tank line with this mechanic just like how the Yoh line is the only line with it's track mechanic, it's makes a line unique rather than making others instantly obsolete. The only thing I think they need to stop doing is adding special consumables, those suck.

[mental pasture]

What the hell is a strategy involved feature that makes you spotted for 20 seconds? There's nothing strategic on losing 1/3 of your DPM because you must hide on your sniping tank.

It's a unique line that WILL make sniping tanks obsolete no matter what

I must say that I'm perfectly fine with the tracks on Yoh. I play mostly TDs so it does not modify my gameplay not by a bit. @real bison

[real bison]

The Yoh didn’t need the tracks

It isn’t considered OP just because of its track mechanic

The 60TP didn’t need tungsten and gear oil either

If WG could properly balance tanks rather than slapping on super consumables or a unique mechanic, that’d be great

[unique scaffold]

Newsflash, keeping tanks spotted is a strategy lmao

@real bison maybe a better example would be ATGMs, because I thought they were perfectly fine but since they nerfed them into the dirt and then removed the ATGMs it made the tank so meh, it's a tall light with alpha, and reticle calibration and tungsten shells are literally rng buffers

[mental pasture]

It's trully a strategy, an unbalanced one.

Btw, about the ATGM, this was the most unbalanced feature that WG has ever made in any game. The ability to shot through wall with no chance to be hit back is by far the most broken thing this game ever made. Even WG recognized this.

[real bison]

yes, keeping tanks spotted is a strat

increasing the despot time isn’t

the T-100LT is literally the shortest tier X

Is that not unique enough?

ATGMs, in my opinion, were unbalanced in theory, balanced in practice

But, as @mental pasture says, the ability to do that was the broken thing, it wasn’t how the players used it

Yoh doesn’t need a special mechanic to be good as it is currently

60TP doesn’t either

Plus, we’ve now seen 3 new tank lines with unique mechanics, one of which was the aforementioned ATGMs, which were removed

Edit: the Yoh itself is quite unique, in the fact the tier 9 and 10 can choose between 2 guns

Edit 2: if they’re gonna add this, why not on all LTs? It sorta makes no sense why WG would want to give a mechanic that alters the amount of time you are spotted to only 1 tank.

And considering the current state of LTs in the meta, why not add them to all LTs?

[unique scaffold]

They really need to reduce the dpm of the tank a little, but the point of this mechanic is more so to give it a specific job rather than simply making it unique. Since keeping the enemy team spotted is a job every light tank has, this one specifically has the ability to keep things spotted for longer periods of time which makes it's job a bit easier. But it still doesn't have the highest view range, or the highest alpha, or an autoloader, it's the best at doing one job just like any other tank, and it doesn't make it broken.

Because then that's actually changing the fundamental mechanics of the game lmao, now instead of two tanks having the ability, you want ALL of them to have it, completely defeats it's purpose.

[real bison]

“giving it a specific job” would mean it is unique

You either don’t have it, or every tier 9 and 10 light gets it

Those are the two ends of the spectrum

Again, why should these 2 tanks have this one mechanic, all the while the rest of the LT class struggles with the fact MTs aren’t that far off their viewrange?

IMO two things should happen:

It should be available on all tier 9 and 10 LTs

The time should be reduced to 5 extra seconds, not 10, which is far to strong

There is a crew skill in PC that increases the time by 2 seconds (Designated Target iirc)

That’s fine, as it doesn’t drastically increase the time, and players barely have to wait any time to become unspotted again after being spotted by a player with the skill

10 extra seconds is far too long

Edit: talking about the Yoh’s track system, that doesn’t really effect the game much as this would

[unique scaffold]

I was saying they are not just making it unique, it has a reason. I could agree that a 15 second despot time makes more sense, but even with the 20 it is definitely not something so broken that you have to give it to every single light tank in their tier.

I swear this is the only game where the player base wants everything the exact same 🤦‍♂️

[drowsy plaza]

Not the same, just not ridiculously imbalanced.

Now a fairly well camouflaged tank can hit something and light it up for 20 sec. If that target is a paper tank or a tank with weak sides it’s toast if I can’t immediately drop into cover.

20 seconds is an eternity in Blitz.

[wicked quest]

For the record you do know atgms weren’t removed entirely right nor is the sheridan awful by any means it’s a great hit and runner and has more penetration than even meds pre nerf sheri was literally faster than a Dracula and with 370 HEAT missiles it could penetrate anything

[unique scaffold]

The only way to play missles now is if you had the sheridan when they were removed, there is no way to get the sheridan missles anymore and it's been excluded out of all normal gameplay except special games modes, that's literally removed. Not to mention they nerfed the tank and the missles themselves and people still cried about a mechanic that prevented tunneling and actually required skill.

[wicked quest]

No that means it’s still a thing lol and it didn’t prevent tunneling at all because explain how its not game breaking to be able to hit someone behind cover its a year old argument and one that lost rather

[unique scaffold]

Just because you have the ability to so doesn't mean it happens all the time, I don't know about you but I clearly remember 90% of all missles shot at me just missed unless they were shot point blank. They removed the only skill based mechanic all because people were crying too much about it.

[wicked quest]

Right totally not compilations of shots being hit and even mods that were being developed when the missiles were still a thing not like wg ever learns from their mistakes

[full token]

Wasn’t even all about how many shots hit behind cover. Just being able behind cover was too much, and the effects in a battle when people had to play around the threat of someone being able to lob 490 alpha hits from behind a hull

[unique scaffold]

Your actually using compilations as an argument? It's not like they specifically choose the clips that hit and excluded the other 90% that missed or anything, and the modders seem more like a wargaming problem that could be fixed apart from just strait up removing the tank??? Speaking of which, this whole thing was to show how people ruin things for others by crying about something new being added, it's literally always been like this. ATGMs were something cool that seperated blitz from the other world of tanks games. And even though they could shoot from behind cover, they can't hit things standing behind cover unless your extremely lucky.

[mental pasture]

You didn't get the point, it's not about "Hur dur but it's hard to hit above covers", it's about the chance for it happening.

If a tank has 0,05 chance of hit-killing you without even penetrating, it'll still broken as long as this chance exist. The same goes for missiles.

ATGMs were truly cool; FOR THE USER
on the same way that Arty is a cool feature; COOL ONLY FOR THE USER
Broken tanks are also pretty much cool; ONLY. FOR. THE. USER.

[unique scaffold]

Well with that same logic apparently any tank that's only fun for the user is stupid, so we'll go ahead and point out the 183 which everyone can agree is not broken but it has a good 50/50 chance of it doing an insane amount of damage, so if it was removed, it's fine right? Your argument is literally "people can't have fun! It's not fair for other people who choose to not get the tank!"

[distant river]

People definitely do not all agree about the 183 not being broken and that's basically because it's so bad

[mental pasture]

I do agree that 183 is broken, even tho, instead of it's total removal I prefer nerfs, like somehow cap it's furious HESH.
Regardless of it being broken, it stills hell trash.

Didn't know that Lux was an Arty user

[remote oriole]

I mean arty really is cool 👀

[sleek grove]

183 isn't broken overall, it just traded speed, armor and camo for gun

[mental pasture]

People indeed can have fun. I have fun on my Lowe, ISU-152, M6EXP, T110E5, T110E3, E100, Obj 268, SU-100Y, Panzer 4 S., Helsing, AMX 13 75, SU-122-44, T28HTC, Luchs, Großtraktor and even in T14. Aside from T110E3 all of them have no traits of unbalance.
Is it hard to find a balanced tank as fun?

[leaden flare]

löwe is like the most unfun tank ever its just hulldown and slow

[distant river]

Lt432 on the other hand 🤤

Exp and E5 are literally bad tanks lmao, helsing is just decent

Well not bad bad just disappointing and out classed

[remote oriole]

I have fun in tanks that are undervalued by the community because I just love breaking the meta/ main stream

[unique scaffold]

Calling the helsing, exp, and e5 balanced tanks is one big stretch lol

[rare sleet]

How so? the e5 nerfed to bits the exp is not good.. and the helsing gets powercreeped so very balance. or not balanced because they are bad

[sleek grove]

Exp and E5 are the most bland and boring tanks, they aren't even good anymore, No-one struggles against them

[mental pasture]

LMAO, E5 got heavily nerfed and check how players behave with it, T10 heavy with lowest WR, even tho it stills my precious piece of gold

EXP is totally balanced. Easily penetrable by tier 7 on the side of the turrets, penetrable on the hull cheeks, very slow, turns horribly in exchange of a hard front and a hard hitting gun.

Helsing arguably didn't age well, but ok, that explains why I'm almost 70% er on it.

If you say so...@stiff edge

[stiff edge]

yes personal stats are very relevant

[unique scaffold]

Maybe the exp is balanced, but a tier 10 heavy with 340 base heat pen and 8 degrees of gun depression is pretty strong. Also kinda weird how you point out player stats on that tank but personal stats on another 🤔

Oh look at that, the helsing apparently out performs every other premium td, who would've known lmao

[sleek grove]

E5 is balanced, maybe underbalanced now, u can say Concept is OP, but E5 no 💀

[mental pasture]

If you guys brag so much about personal stats... You complained about personal data, now take it or leave.

Also, check E5 too. This one is obviously not as strong as other heavies
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/594610900154187806/923326417855479838/unknown.png?width=1025&height=169

[unique scaffold]

It has a winrate similar to the kranvagn, I've see more than one person complain about that thing. This is exactly why they don't balance through statistics anymore.

I'm pretty sure a high caliber HE round does a lot of splash damage to any tank lol

[mental pasture]

Funny enough, it's the T10 heavy in therms of stats and the second worst in therms of WR. Kran is also balanced as any high caliber does cause high damage by HE splash in it's best hull down position.

[distant river]

That's definitely not why the kran is balanced, and if you want good stats use blitzanalysiz.com

[mental pasture]

Kinda liked this graphic

[sleek grove]

No matter how u put the situation, kran used to be good for like a patch, when it got 🍆blocked and lost its traverse, it's sluggish and it can only do good on Ridgelines

[hearty steeple]

Kran wasn't touched for almost a year. And it remained meta for all that time. I would hardly call it good for a patch

[tulip escarp]

63 kpf 70s left! For 7500 gold

[twin egret]

Fv215b buff when

[unique scaffold]

I want to know why the hell they keep buffing the Black Prince, the dpm alone is good enough to fight tier 8s but apparently it needs more armor and hp

[mental pasture]

I know it's hell trash.
"Regardless of it being broken, it stills hell trash"
In fact, it'd be even healthier for the tank to decrease the alpha in order to benefit other stat like agility. Pretty much on what WG will do to Tortoise, decreasing accuracy to add armor

Then it'll still broken @quasi axle

[quasi axle]

just leave it be

[gleaming apex]

EpicDoge#4463 has been warned.

[stuck acorn]

and let it be broken. There is nothing bad in having few of those tanks uneless they are overpowered at the same time like samsher or anni. Just let the 183 exist as a niche trash for masochist memers. And on the other hand even if you would give some other stats in return for alpha being nerfed, do you think that people would still play that? Answer is NO. People play that tank only for the alpha and nothing will change that. If you take out the alpha, unless you make this tank overpowered nobody will play it.

[mental pasture]

Fair.

[distant river]

People will still play it even if it doesn't have its toxic 1300 HESH alpha, just nerf the standard AP and HE and remove the prammo while giving it slight mobility, camo and gun handling stats. People are still going to play the tank. Just like they play every other tank which doesn't have 1300 alpha and makes games horrifically stale. The second most played tank at tier 10 was the grille, which doesn't have 1300 alpha and isn't op.

You don't need broken tanks and you don't want then in the game because they are sure as hell bad for everyone else.

[mental pasture]

I agree with this, even tho nerfing the AP and HE is kinda of too much. My only grudge is against the HESH

[quasi axle]

you changed your opinion quickly.

[mental pasture]

A great Brazilian singer once said "I'm a mobile metamorphosis".
Well, I'm also a mobile metamorphosis

[sullen walrus]

https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/XPiTXIXQzSVCs0D-eXfh7uJ0YbViZuynCO07fpZqp0w/https/media.discordapp.net/attachments/842151492546199584/923253594109648896/FB_IMG_1640191201420.jpg what this(wait nvm im blind)

[quasi axle]

i think the image is quite self explanatory

[carmine pawn]

My conqueror finally getting a buff!

Also can we all agree that concept 1b needs to be nerfed in game, its even worse than t22

[twin egret]

Wherr did you get information that they're buffing it again lol

[unique scaffold]

Nono you misunderstood, I wasn't talking about the current update I'm talking about how they buffed it at least 4 times in the last 10 updates

I wrote 4 because I feel like that's closer to what they actually did, but I'm probably exaggerating since it includes general buffs like the heavy tank hp buff and stuff, but the dpm buff was totally unnecessary

[versed tide]

The most recent change was a nerf soo

[unique scaffold]

They still didn't even touch dpm

[nimble zodiac]

I thought it was a stat trade between speed and accuracy

They did

[versed tide]

I don’t think they buffed the mobility although they might have

[empty nexus]

They did. Top speed buff

[full token]

there are more tanks than just the is4 and is7 in that tier. Compare with them as well

[remote oriole]

Well, yes, but to be honest the IS-7 is op and making a second tank similarly op doesn‘t really solve the problem. You‘d have to make all tanks op by today‘s standards in order to make the IS-7 a reasonable comparison for a balanced tank

[royal moon]

was very busy @empty nexus ur stats is somewhat decent and from an decent clan, i was expecting someone from FAME /mahou / kazna with 70+ wr and 3k dpg but it doesnt matter, i just want to know that stats of those who are crying the loudest about the c1b @uneven narwhal @mental pasture @woven hill @leaden flare

[uneven narwhal]

@royal moon
I know you have paid money for the tank
You are very obviously going to defend it, no matter how broken it is
I don't see any point in continuing this discussion
If you do want to see my stats, you can do the work of clicking a few times to get to BlitzStars and check for yourself

[sleek grove]

c1b enjoyer : 🤡
t110e5 enjoyer : 🇹🇩

to avoid confusion , that flag is from a country called "chad"

[sleek grove]

damn, dokutah is really hurt by the truth

[uneven narwhal]

Ofc he is
Doesn't want his tank to be considered OP

[orchid grove]

IS-4 has been the meta tier 10 heavy for several years now. We don't need to keep it there

[uneven narwhal]

IS-4 is already a strong tank
Just because the IS-7 is stronger, doesn't mean the IS-4 is weak

[empty nexus]

Damn you’re still stuck on that? My god 😂 someone got mad when I said their stats were alright.
I have 3k damage per game minimum on my tier 10’s and some tier 9s.

@twin egret yup, dealing with black prince is easy if you can outrade it and are in a peek-a-boo spot…not so much when you can’t(outrade it(poor comet))

[twin egret]

Hmm well sure it's good but remember it faces tier 8's and it really struggles at that tier compared to other tier 7's.
Meanwhile at tier 6 it destroys tanks, if those tanks are just in the open. At tier 7, tanks are typically starting to deal 200 average rather than 160

[wide dawn]

Atleast the IS-4 didn't get hammered to that extent E5 got in 8.2 😔

[wicked quest]

You do know it literally got it’s armor reworked last year and has 374 heat pen right

[royal moon]

3k overall dpg not 3k in tier 10, t10 is easy to do dmg

[sleek grove]

then how come u dont have 3k in t10 💀

[empty nexus]

You haven’t got 3k average for any of your tier 10’s. The highest is 2.8K in your 50B. I’ve got 6 more average damage in my Shark, then you do in in your 50B.

I don’t think I know anyone with 3k average damage, and even if I did it meant the person plays mostly at Tier 10, 9 and a bit of 8, and Can’t have played through anything lower without their stats being dragged down, as It’s Fairly hard to average 3k anything below T8. Atleast, that’s what I think.

@royal moon 2.74% platoon for me. Sealclubbing is Nearly extinct after 5.5, + You’re downvoting Responses? 😂 Funniest thing I’ve seen today

Accusing us of sealclubbing whilst you’re the guy that recently aced your T4 Chinese Med💀 and 1st classes your T5 Type 34

[uneven narwhal]

Mfw someone turns to statshame because they run out of sensible arguments to defend their statement

[royal moon]

i play solo unlike some unicorns that plat all day long to sealclub and pad their stats @sleek grove Lmfao, almosty 60% plat rate defending against unicum platoons, dude is platting with his clanmate/friends in every god*amn game for padding their winrateI I smell something fishy here, and high plat percentage players stats doesnt count!

[sleek grove]

stat padding in t10 isnt easy at all, plus playing solo has nothing to do with your average and under-average stats

also reacting to truth with emotes doesnt make u a better player and person in general

[leaden flare]

well look me up Eurydome

and here im still asking myself why the hell he is listing clans that arent even in blitz or not good in blitz
kazna is long dead or rather inactive
fame was never a good clan in blitz for what i know
no clue what mahou even is but nothing that plays blitz on eu

[uneven narwhal]

Ah yes unicorn

I love unicorn players!!

[empty nexus]

I knew it! So unicorns are real afterall

[royal moon]

clowns/monkeys that dont know unicum is from the word unicorn😂 also dont wanna discuss with statpadders and trolls, c1b PTSDers any more, you guys win👍😅

[jagged zephyr]

Wait don't tell me you don't know where the word 'unicum' actually comes from... "Unicum" is a word in English, originating in Latin. It means "unique" or "rare" - the Latin root of the word is 'unicus'. @royal moon hehe I have 2% plat rate and higher 30 day wn8 than you lol - stop with the stat shaming, you're not actually that great...

[unique scaffold]

If you don't have arguments that you can put forth without feeling the need to insult others, I don't get how you can't see you have already lost

If you have any further defense, you can present them in a civil manner

[sleek grove]

Resulting in Insults after not being able to gut gud is the wotb meta

[frail silo]

clearly you are the one who stat pads here, seal clubber.
at least they can get good stats while playing higher tiers, which requires actual skill.
it is either of the 2. you are trolling, or you are delusional as a result of your ego being shredded.

[sleek grove]

I think that guy is 100% a reroll due to him hitting just above 5k battles and him posting a pic of his 60tp stats, which aren't on his reroll, kind of a bad move by him

[mental pasture]

United post nerf T110E5 enjoyers 💪

Damn bro

[sleek grove]

actually no, i have sold mine after the nerf.
sorry.
cant play a worse is4

[mental pasture]

Someone needs to accept some balance measures... Also a dictionary.

https://www.lexico.com/definition/unicum

[leaden flare]

Wait wait wait so let me get this straight
Everyone that has better stats than you is a statpadder and the rest is just a sealclubber ?
While I agree that the wn8 there is way too high due to me playing a bit t8 I still don't get what that has to do with statpadding and how that's supposed to be related to me not being able to judge the balancing of a way too strong heavy tank
And as U also can see if you'd look me up I own the c1b

[sleek grove]

Good player, or as white wr players would say, hacker.

[uneven narwhal]

It's clearly Inspect Element /s

[drowsy plaza]

No no, anyone with a higher platoon rate than me currently is a statpadder 😉

[leaden flare]

How could I miss that 😂
Yeah usually I'm a 0 toonrate dude aswell

[mental pasture]

When the guy has no argument to talk about "C1B's balance", he starts to stat shame others and even fails on this.

[unique scaffold]

Does anyone know what happens if u already have 54 lwt 4 soviet lts? Do u skip t7?

[wide dawn]

Here's your answer

[quasi axle]

Great news

[stuck acorn]

I was searching for buffs and nerfs in 8.7 OT and these are what i managed to find:

WT auf PZ IV - reload is nerfed by 1s and top speed is buffed by 2 km/h;

M-V-Yoh - reload on 105 mm gun was buffed by 5s, but penetration was nerfed by 7 mm on AP and 10 mm on HEAT. On 120 mm gun accuaracy was buffed from 0.38 to 0.36;

Conqueror - turret armor was buffed by 20 mm;

VK 45.02 B - Hull side armor was buffed from 104 to 120 mm;

Centurion 7/1 - turret armor was buffed from 165 mm to 254 mm, accuaracy was nerfed from 0.30 to 0.34;

Tortoise - reload was buffed from 7.38 to 7.00, accuaracy was nerfed from 0.29 to 0.33. Hull armor was buffed from 229 mm to 254 mm;

Object 704 - relaod was nerfed from 13.43 to 14.77, HP pool was increased from 1500 to 1750;

T95 - New engine to research was added, so along with new engine you can get up to 800hp instead of previous 650, top speed got increased from 16 to 20 km/h, reload was nerfed from 14.33 to 14.86

[uneven narwhal]

Amazing, Tier 9 M-VI-Yoh and a hulldown Cent 7/1
insert wazawoski face here

[sleek grove]

hull down cent 7/1 will now be better than the t10 fv4202

[mental pasture]

That's kinda of a massive nerf on the Obj 704 dpm, but ok

[wide dawn]

Wow, Obj 704 takes over the crown from WT of having the highest HP pool amongst t9 TDs

Oh bruh nvm

[stuck acorn]

Jagdtiger and tortoise both have more if i remember correctly. Both have 1.8k

[winged barn]

So weegee is clearly open to improving td hp pools (704)

Hmm, what buff does the most assualt oriented tier 9 td need? mobility

[safe rapids]

So how is the Conqs armor now? And the Tortoises 228mm section is small. What about the huge cheeks and sides where most people aim for that are currently 171mm?

[stuck acorn]

My test server client is really bugged, i'm reinstalling it now, i'll send screenshots of armor for like 10 minutes

[safe rapids]

Oh ok

[stuck acorn]

Here is tortoise after buff. I'm in E50 which has 220 on standard and 270 on gold. No calibrated shells equiped

@safe rapids

[neat crescent]

looks the same to me, wonder what part of the armour was even changed lmao

[safe rapids]

It’s now very good against heavies of tier 8 and tier 9 meds

[stuck acorn]

Conqueror and centurion 7/1 wth max gun depression after buff

They buffed only cheeks on both tanks. All other parts of the turret remain untouched

[neat crescent]

welp, for conq, those cheeks are HUGE mind you its the fv215b turret at t9 basically, and for cent, i guess its indeed just a small change

[sleek grove]

Bruh now cent7/1 is another op tank in t9 smh, why can't they buff the armor on 4202 instead 😩 😩 😩

[distant river]

Because the 4202 needs anything but an armour buff lol

[unique scaffold]

4202 is already cracked

[winged barn]

Give it back double prammo :)

[unique scaffold]

Lol

[stuck acorn]

they buffed only this little part near the gun. when you move to the right or left just a litttle bit it remains untouched. So as long as your enemy has less than 280-90 pen, you use your gun depression and face enemy directly it should be fine. But if any of those conditions is not fullfiled you will get buttered

So this turret is still pretty much worthless.

[safe rapids]

How is it worthless? Against tier 8s it’ll be a tougher nut to crack and for people who use premium rounds very little as well. (Aka me).

[prisma jetty]

<@&481447501690568709>

[gleaming apex]

Displ4yD#4165 was banned

[stuck acorn]

It is worthless. when you are facing exactly your enemy it's fine, but when you turn it to the point where you aim not in the middle of the enemy tank but for example somewhere near his track, one of your sides of the turret becomes easly pennable even with aroun 220 of pen. That means that you can't turn your turret even a little bit, or you will get easly penned.

This situation is result of armor layout on conqueror's turet. The part really close to gun mantlet is where you have those 180 mm and it's pretty strong, but rest is basically pure paper and bases only at the angle. So when you turn it just a little bit you expose your 90mm part of the turret which becomes huge weakspot

[full token]

anyone know if the tiger 2 pbr has changed its armor and if so, what its done?

[upbeat sphinx]

t 25 pilot needs a serious buff btw

[stuck acorn]

we will probably need to wait for blitz hangar on this case. But angles didn't seem to change much, so even if there are some changes they are probably minor'

[drowsy plaza]

Can you define serious buff? It’s got a great turret - decent mobility, decent pen and decent DPM. What do you it needs more of?

[mental pasture]

He means a "balanced" tank in the most broken tier, not a truly balanced tank

[upbeat sphinx]

peshing has 300 more dpm, more turret armour.
the mobility is not that great, I expected more.

[safe rapids]

Premium tanks originally were supposed to be in between stock and top tech tree tanks. Today I define a well balanced premium as one at most on par with tech tree vehicles, maybe a bit better. The Pilot 1 is balanced but if you don’t want to play it play the Pershing or T95E2. Actually the 59-Patton is also quite good.

[quasi axle]

Mobility seems bad simply because it has a bad top speed

[unique scaffold]

I still think it is way too strong, 3,000 dpm with the armor it has is so unnecessary

[twin egret]

It's armor is pretty weak, and 3k dpm seems broken on paper until you realize it's a pea shooter and can only beat you if you're silly enough to just stand in front of it without a form of cover

It's decently slow too, you can outrun it, if you're fast enough lol

[unique scaffold]

Except when it perma tracks you, and trust me, they always try and do that crap and I don't blame them either, but it seems like they keep making it stronger when it doesn't need to be made stronger.

[twin egret]

Just don't get perna tracked, seems like a challenge to fight until you relized you beat it with a stick with an IS tank
The BP has poor penetration
The Bp has a weak roof too
The tank struggles against the tiger

[unique scaffold]

"just don't get perma tracked" I'm not talking about how easy it is to get perma tracked, it's when you do it gets really old really fast. And the Tiger is tier 7 meta right now so I'm not surprised, and the IS's only advantage against it is the speed, unless you have the 100mm.

[twin egret]

You don't use the 100mm tho? You use the 120 because you can out trade most tanks with it and pull back into cover.

When you do get perma tracked it's mostly because of bad play

[unique scaffold]

Any single person who has ran out of repair kits can get perma tracked bud, especially in a heavy tank where that's probably the most used consumable apart from adrenaline. And why would I use the 120 with more alpha when the 100 has better pen, better accuracy, better dpm, and even an extra degree of gun depression.

[twin egret]

I just said that the 120mm can outtrade with other tanks...

You're making the player who ran out of repair kits seem like they made a bad play tho

[unique scaffold]

I don't see how getting tracked or running out of repair kits is a "bad play" because people have to aim for the track so how is it the other players fault? And if you would pay attention, most people use the 100 instead of the 120 for those exact reasons, if you can't hit your shots then there goes your trade lol

[winged barn]

Nothing is going to get permatracked by a reload above 5 seconds, and even then equipped tanks will laugh at every that isn't an at15 when you try to do that
The IS 100mm isn't anywhere near permatracking

[twin egret]

I rarely see an IS using the 100mm while playing so idk what you're saying lmao.

It's bad play cuz they drove out when it was obvious it'll happen lol?

If the player never knew the BP was there then fair play

Then again the BP finding a place and time of perma tracking someone isn't common

[unique scaffold]

So it's apparently obvious that a BP is going to perma track someone, but yet it has to have the perfect conditions to do so? Ok lol

@winged barn if you would read a few more sentences, I'm talking about the BP permatracking things, not the IS

[twin egret]

If it was spotted previously then yeah sure, go play a few serveral battles or like revisit your previous battles and recount how many times you or someone got perma tracked by a BP

The BP isn't as OP as you think lol

[unique scaffold]

I don't really play tier 7, but I do play tier 8, and a BP perma tracked me twice the day I made my original comment and once the day before which is why I said something about it. And I never even called it OP! I only said it was pretty strong and the last thing it needs is another buff since it seems like every other update that's what they do. Thankfully it's not happening this update, but the BP has always been like this so it's really unreasonable what they've done in the past.

I don't even want it nerfed, they just need to stop changing it!

[drowsy plaza]

Lol BP is just a HP piñata unless you sit in front of it in the open.

[neat crescent]

or have no armor since its gun pen stats are so bad i cry

[jagged crescent]

I am ready for the centurion 7/1 to become the strongest t9 in the game

[stuck acorn]

It won't be like that. It will be buffed, but accuaracy nerf will be painfull and it won't gain that much armor either. Turret still will be pennable

[twin egret]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[patent vapor]

New spotting mechanic gonna break certain aspects of the game UNLESS:
1.) WG Match up the same number of t100lts on each team, so no giving enemy 1 T100 and ur team 2t100s
2.) Reducing spotting duration to around 12s instead of 20s (bcs thats absurd)
3.) Removing it entirely and changing other aspects of the vehicle (preffered)

Also in a 1v1 scenario (for example t100 vs a BC 25t) this would give a huge advantage to the t100 since after 10s the t100 will know, if they're out of the proxy spotting range they are unspotted, but since the enemy is spotted for twice as long, can abuse that and evade them and flank more effectively.

I mean I appreciate them trying to change stuff in the game and do new things for the tech trees and make the game more diverse but personally Im happy with the current spotting mechanics and I don't think that should change

No need to fix something that isn't broken

[unique scaffold]

I wasn't sure about a message regarding research of modules with normal XP entirely but I am 100% sure that it gives a confirmation message when researching with XP and Free XP
You really cannot blame it on them honestly

[gleaming apex]

Mikey the noob#2589 has been warned.

[mental pasture]

I truly give you a point for the first image, but the second is just dumb. I asked the second image just to see how small the cupola is, expecting you'd treat a second line heavy as it actually is.
Unless if they got rushed when they were weakened or rushed a weak enemy, would any player show it's hull as like if it was a T110E3?

Also, nice to point out that the conversation started about it in facehug and moved to how balanced it is since then you said
"Very interesting on why u say “top” player. For the joke, idk if I’m supposed to laugh? The cupola are small cause I’m not up in it’s face, that’s obvious, now if u can’t hit it, then, that’s on u or just unlucky. In what sort of way am I being biased? I only stated 1 point (on how it’s not as bad as it seems) and that’s how I’m biased? Very interesting. And I said it isn’t “OP” or “broken” (which ever way u take it) bc u have to see when it was being tested, I didn’t test, but from what I saw, it certainly isn’t what it is now and I certainly ain’t saying its bad now, it is a strong tank in certain scenarios, it just when facing hugging, it isn’t as bad as how the person was stating it to be."

Right, @sweet ember?

[quasi axle]

💀

[twin egret]

I'm surprised by the second pic as that clearly is not how it looks like in an E 100

[mental pasture]

I see no discrepancy. Reload, ammo load out, size

Why you say that then?

[twin egret]

Maybe prebuffrd concep
Look at the upper frontal flaccid glacis plate

[full token]

Can’t be a prebuffed version. There’s the legendary camo on it

[winged barn]

Calibrated
No enhanced armor

Looks the same to me

[drowsy plaza]

It’s only good hulldown

I fail to see how anyone thinks differently

Sure it’s mobile, has great DPM for a heavy, but still can’t push on people due to armor - unless you are pushing someone totally isolated

[mental pasture]

That's what second line heavies do, they hull down

[drowsy plaza]

First line med 😉

[gleaming apex]

Steven_Handsome#2622 has been warned.

[sweet ember]

Lmao, this mans, not even worth repeating myself, can’t read why I showed the pictures in the first place to that other guy, but just for u, I will, the tank is busted af hull down, that’s obvious, but once u face hug it, it not as bad as the other person mad it seem, tank isn’t hard to pen in a face hug, (to make it clear for u, this is just 1 scenario) thanks for showing the pictures again, further shows how easy it is to pen the cupola with tanks like the e100, I honestly don’t know what else I can tell u my mans, if u don’t agree w/ me, then just leave it

[quasi axle]

hello if you were looking for an intellectual conversation about tank balance you came to the wrong channel

[scarlet fjord]

I can imagine WG buffing the IS-8 because 70-80% of the players think it's crap despite it being quite nice

[winged barn]

looks at 50tp proto

Buffed is8 is already present

[karmic bear]

lol

[scarlet fjord]

Well it's the op consumables and provisions that really make it a buffed IS-8 remove those and I think they are somewhat similar in terms of performance but it's just that 1 tank so I don't really mind it still the IS-8 is a cracked med to me with TD pen

[nimble zodiac]

Here we go, IS-4 with TD pen ig

[scarlet fjord]

Well at tier 10 that isn't really TD pen it is at tier 9 though

[real bison]

it doesn’t even need tungsten to be better

and it has enough speed to keep up

[scarlet fjord]

I like to harass even compete tier 10 meds in certain situations so I would prefer the 2600 DPM over 2300 or smt like this over 20 alpha also the nicer troll sides and more pen just works for me more talking about a 50 proto with no op consumables and provisions here
Ofc u got the gun dep and turret on the proto

[main tulip]

Wargaming, please stop nerfing the accuracy on tanks when you buff them in other aspects. Unless said tank has a huge derp gun, the accuracy nerf is completely unneeded and just makes the game less fun

[sweet ember]

Hello, Ik this is the wrong chat, but please do check who pinged me first 🙂 merry Xmas

[quasi axle]

Hello i was not calling you dumb or something
Merry Xmas!

[sweet ember]

Neither was I

[paper island]

Hey guys does anyone think fv4202 needs some balance because I think it needs turret armor more than hull armor only if wg take out all the hull armor and add it to turret?

[prisma jetty]

Nah, it's fine. Slaughters any other med or light, but struggles against heavies

[unique scaffold]

That will make it a hulldown 4k DPM, 60kmph tank

[safe rapids]

We don’t need more of those I think FV is fine.

[paper island]

Maybe lower the speed to 50? And a weak and the lower part of the turret like fv 183

[main tulip]

FV will get destroyed by e50m

[unique scaffold]

Depends on the situation
It will if it allows itself to get rammed and doesn't keep itself in front of an E 50M
It won't once it gets the side

Then the HESH rounds take over

[twin egret]

You can pen the lower plate with HESH
You can pen the upper glacis plate of the E 50 M with standard APCR in FV4202 of you're being facehugged

[unique scaffold]

You can yes but with an E 50M approaching you, it becomes difficult to penetrate a HESH due to a greater angle of entry on the lower plate
While you can penetrate the upper plate of the 50M with APCR, the E 50M will out DPM you marginally and the ram will help as well

To any further replies,
I'm not making any statements here as to which tank is better, I'm just elaborating on one of the two situations I described in my previous message 🙃

[indigo knot]

Why in the world would you nerf dispersion on these tanks ....
They are both on the weaker side in terms of tier 9 meds

[twin egret]

Just hope you can get in the troll bounces

[full token]

Leo PTA needed a buff, not any form of rebalance. The dpm buff isn’t that big to need a dispersion nerf. It’s not going to be OP with just a dpm buff

[lunar niche]

Both Leopards need buffs tbh not just slightly more dpm

[indigo knot]

Watch as these balance changes move to tier 10s too...
I doubt the balance department even plays the game
Giving many tanks similar playstyle....only some tanks get specific provisions, consumables.....then balancing them around it making them lose their identity(E5 and 215B)
Especially every new line is with some gimmick and this makes old lines useless to grind for
Like at least listen to Testers and CCs regarding these new important mechanics and things but they never will

[balmy hamlet]

Looking at the balance changes that are planned for 8.7 I can't help but have questions, even after ignoring writing the tank's name wrong.
Some of the changes look great, but some others make no sense whatsoever to me. Can we get some justification of those, what the devs are going for?
Tanks appear to be grouped tighter, reducing variety in their abilities and therefore their playstyles.
I don't want my support medium to be a hulldown monster, I don't want my snipers to trade accuracy for dpm, I don't want my mobile unarmored clipper to have dpm instead of mobility and aim time, I don't want my paper med with a gigantic cupola to lose its view range for a bit of armor.
The same issue could be seen in tier 8, albeit to a lesser degree. I don't play there much anymore so I can't comment besides the AMX 50 100 changes which make absolutely no sense.

Edit: meant to shift+enter for the next lines:

Having less variety in tank abilities makes them less interesting to play, less interesting to grind for, less interesting to encounter in battle. It makes the whole game less interesting.

[thick rover]

Look at #devs-answers Ribble did a post on the justification @balmy hamlet

[balmy hamlet]

If said justification is their "new balance approach" then my previous post, as well as this one, counts as a direct critique to that. I didn't pay much attention when it was first posted, but from what I see they have a very clear list of characteristics and roles. Armour and hp are flat out more important than firepower according to that and view range is the least important characteristic. I would then like to ask why the vickers is so popular in cw. It isn't a weighted sum of characteristics that makes it great, it's its ability to do something that no other tank can, which is something we are currently veering away from.
The second part is even easier to demonstrate as an issue: it fits tanks in 10 roles. Getting back to the vickers example, it is used because it fits a role that the team needs in the context, a role which that tank alone can fit. If every tank has to fit in one of 10 predefined roles then we have 10 tanks with a bunch of slightly different reskins.
The first example of this that jumped off to me was the WZ-120. It was a freak with 3 degrees of gun depression, completely unique in tier 9 and with its own playstyle due to it. They could buff its firepower, view range, camo, mobility, armour... a lot of things. But they buffed its gun depression to 5, removing the tank's entire character and making another T-54, but with a big gun.

Do we really want the game's flavours to be removed in order for everything to nicely fit on a spreadsheet?

Edit: had a typing error and forgot to reply to @thick rover

[hearty steeple]

Ooh Foch is getting the same juicy dpm as tort. Just at the cost of a little bit of mobility. Foch totally needed a buff. Yes.

[main tulip]

Tortoise shouldn't have its accuracy nerfed

[scarlet fjord]

WG why are u nerfing the IS-8 mobility omg i am so frustrated at this
that is what made the tank alive dont change the top speed its gun handling is completely fine i am so disappointed in ur bad balancing ideas

[dark pike]

wg is telling you to play the 50tp proto

[leaden flare]

Idk why anyone would complain about the previous buff of wz 120
With 3° gd the tanks was incredibly useless on almost every single map
Those 2° more made the tanks playstyle not much different and just improved its quality of life which is perfectly fine

It's still fairly easy to pen hulldown and still has a worse hull then t 54 so it still has its own playstyle

121 has 6°

[balmy hamlet]

It does, but it is not nearly as unique as it used to be. The tank was far from useless, I personally enjoyed it much more than the T-54.
Personally I had 2.7k and 77% wr playing it, it was great fun and I came back to it a few times. It doesn't have the same charm now, I have many tanks with 5° so might as well play the 121, the only thing that sets it apart now is the fact that it's tier 9 and the others are 8 or 10.

[frail silo]

the buff didn't really change its role
it didn't take the t54's place as a brawler

[unique scaffold]

I'd honestly add few or maybe 5 degrees of traverse for Bourrasque
Sometimes you just won't make it, won't outmanouver a tank or at least ease it a bit on terrain resistance
I mean, I'd say yeah a tiny bit
not that it is gonna make it op or something, just to help the manouverability a bit
60 degrees ( not included improved steering ) when you go 55-60 km/h isn't enough imho
62 or 63 would be okay ( so u can get it up to 65 / 67 )

[nimble zodiac]

Oh the traverse is the problem with it?

[balmy hamlet]

True, neither tank is obsolete and the wz plays in the same way - only it can shoot from more positions. Their playstyles overlap more. They could have gone with it being different though by buffing something like dispersion instead of gun depression, but deliberately made them more alike. Seems like it fits their table better, who cares about gameplay.

[frail silo]

buffing the dispersion is against the tank's playstyle though.
they are 2nd lind sniper mediums.
sure now they overlap more the buff was needed

[balmy hamlet]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean, good dispersion is one of the main characteristics of a 2nd line sniper medium.
If you meant they "aren't" I would agree on the T-54, but the alpha and pen of the wz-120, coupled with horrible dispersion factors, make it very effective at that.
I don't think it needed a buff to begin with, the main issue of that tank is the modules, a lot of very expensive ones.

[ripe kestrel]

the T95 doesn’t need a rate of fire nerf tbh

[frail silo]

the line is known for bad dispersion but great aimtime
that is the point of them

[balmy hamlet]

Bad dispersion factors when moving and good aim time. I was thinking from .344 down to .34, but it's just an idea, I didn't check everything for, as I said, I don't think it needed any changes. There are other things to look at anyway, like terrain resistances or 420 alpha.

[empty nexus]

I’m waiting for the day the CDC gets buffed. The dispersion OTM needs help 😭

[unique scaffold]

<@&481447501690568709>

[uneven narwhal]

<@&481447501690568709> Moment

[unique scaffold]

What

[uneven narwhal]

There was a fake nitro link, got deleted

[scarlet fjord]

WG dont nerf the top speed of IS-8 the gun handling is fine

[drowsy plaza]

IS-8 was great as it was.

I don’t get the desire to change it’s style.

[distant river]

Because it doesn't fit WGs "genius" new system of making all tanks fit categories of specific playstyles which is stupid. It's not a good change at all and the IS8 should be left how it is because it's fun but unique enough to not need to be op

[full token]

I was worried when I heard the amx 50 120 was going to just lose 8 degrees of traverse but now that I see it has the clip reload reduced by one second I am relieved. Like omg nearly 80 extra dpm on AP shells!

[stuck acorn]

They do it for a reason. And the reason is: After introducing new equipment system in update 3.5 and refined gun in it and taking out provision from consumable category so you don't need to sacrifice 1 repair/ fire extinguisher for provison, accuaracy of most tanks in the game became too busted. Most tanks in the game were in the state you click = you hit. It came to a level when accuracy near 0.32 - 0.34 is considered as bad when for example in wot PC accuaracy of this level is considered as a gun really good for long range shooting. In current state of the game at Tiers 8-10 probably over half of tanks when using full eq and provisions can get accuaracy below 0.3 which is sick. Accuaracy below 0.3 from the start was meant to be avalible only for most accurate guns in the game and i think WG finally realized that

[ruby monolith]

While not necessarily in need of a buff, can we get an F in the chat for the Bat Chat? Once these new Russian lights and their mechanics are introduced, it will lose the the little relevance it has left.

[raw cobalt]

can we just buff the obj 260 armour. I can't even enjoy the tank with its so-call armour. walmart is7

[remote oriole]

Buys Object 260
Wants IS-7
Find the mistake

[winter heron]

Very true. There are some tanks that simply struggle to find a place in the current meta. That being said, there's very little way to buff it that wouldn't either contribute to making the hull down meta more extreme or giving it some game-breaking power. When the meta changes I'm sure the bat chat will find its place eventually

[quasi axle]

If you buffed the intraclip or something that wouldn't make hulldown meta more extreme

[ruby monolith]

That’d be nice, it honestly has one of the worst clips at t10. That coupled with its larger size can be problematic. Honestly I wish they’d fix the French lights so they end in the amx 13 105, but that’s not happening.

[unique scaffold]

I also want that but for that I think Bat Chat would need to get a new role and I don’t think they will do it as Bat Chat is in the game for a long time as a light tank or they can just make France have 2 light tanks line

[ruby monolith]

Wg wouldn’t give up the opportunity to add a collector light tank pfft

[winter heron]

That's true, and it would certainly help. Personally, I would like to see something that would allow for a bit more confidence while playing it, like more HP, or maybe even slightly improved acceleration.

That's just me though, I was pretty bad with the bat chat. Did not suit me at all

[livid marten]

Can some one tell me how's T95e6 t10 tank?

[neat crescent]

a chieftain mk6 but from the murican territory, with worse armor and better gun handling stats i believe 🤔 , just compare em stats wise in blitzstars for a superficial comparison, i havent seen a t95e6 in a while so im not sure really

[winged barn]

Significant mobility difference, in the e6's favor

[quasi axle]

Significant gun difference, in the chieftain's favor!

[nimble zodiac]

Chieftain also... 👀

[ember thunder]

was it really necessary to nerf the tier 9 heavy speeds

hell even more for is8
is8 is awesome jsut becuz it can go like a medium

[plush scroll]

Yo WG
I think that the IS3 - Defender needs a great buff (For the accuracy and turret armour)

[uneven narwhal]

No update is an update without wack balance decisions 😔

[indigo knot]

Hey atleast you know with premium tanks you know what you are getting...it can only go up from there
Atleast those tanks will keep their identity

[unique scaffold]

That's part of the problem

[uneven narwhal]

<@&481447501690568709>
Double kill up for grabs

[twin egret]

Weirdly enough just before the tank was released it seems that WG long ago was debating whether or not to have the 2nd tumor on the turret have a model that you can hit but they thankfully decided no

[scarlet fjord]

its extremely frustrating for me as its one of my fav tanks in the game and i adore its playstyle it hit everything for me cuz of its gorgeous on the move dispersion it did not need dispersion buffs
and the top speed nerf is killing its very fun playstyle as it used to sometimes even compete tier 10 meds just because of the sheer alpha pen and the ability to keep up with them to a degree not to mention the armor that gives bounces you absolutely dont deserve hilarious tank

[real bison]

question:

was the IS-8 nerf revealed on stream or something?

Am I missing something here?

@nimble zodiac thanks

[nimble zodiac]

https://blitzhangar.com/en/update/8-7-preview

[gleaming apex]

Kila#1684 has been warned.

[versed tide]

Why are they nerfing it??? Just give it a dispersion buff with no nerf

[prisma jetty]

They’re nerfing it to fit in with their brilliant new sub-class system

[neat crescent]

The new tank classes prob, I would say that might be why #devs-answers

[winged barn]

Is8-> mobility nerf
T95-> mobility buff

Hmmmm

Tier 9 is probably the tier that needs the least adjustments
Why is it...

[empty nexus]

I got the concept 1B on my alt account (first gold Box I opened had globe, then I got C1B from it) And it’s broken as hell, so good, even with the dead brained teams I’m averaging 3.6k average damage.

However there’s a dilemma as how should the tank be nerfed without destroying it? Can’t really nerf the turret as it’s super small and thin, you can definitely make the sides weaker tho. If you nerf the Tumors around the turret then it ruins the armour profile completely of the tank. The gun Is ok, the Penetration is poor, as is the alpha but the DPM is pretty nice along with the accuracy.

It needs a nerf but it’s tough for me to think where to nerf it without running it into the ground

[uneven narwhal]

Mobility and gun handling

[winged barn]

Make the turret side overmatchable for 122s
HE go brrrr

[full token]

<@&481447501690568709> nitro link above

[gleaming apex]

VanoV9#5238 was banned

[unique scaffold]

Yeaaaa, it's definitely not a tank I would buy on purpose but I would not complain to end up with it in a snow globe or something similar, and I got warned for using the c-word related to tumor lol

[stuck acorn]

I'm really starting to consider the 3 caliber rule as non existant in this game. Theoretically bouncing sheridan's turret with gun bigger than 120mm should be impossible. It happened few times to me tho. I also bounced the engine deck of leo 1 with 150mm few times.

Ik that triple caliber rule works only if effective armour also is lower than your pen value, but 40mm plate at 75 degrees angle equals around 160 mm of armor. That shouldn't be enough to bounce Jgpz's AP shell

@prisma jetty i know how it works. i wrote about that in second part of my message. Still it happened

[prisma jetty]

The three caliber rule is in blitz, it’s just different. It means that you just cannot bounce. You can, however, fail to penetrate.

There’s also the mantlet to consider.

[unique scaffold]

You more than likely did not hit him at 75°
Anything above 82 degrees would mean the AP shell won't penetrate due to effective > nominal
You can upload to replay to wotinspector to get a detailed look at the shot's exact angle of entry

As for the Leopard 1 engine deck, anything above 86.9° will not mean a penetration for tanks with ~280mm of penetration
With a 300mm penetration round, that angle just goes up to 87.13°

Also not to mention the reason it auto bounces at a certain angle is because at that point, the shell is being deflected rather than actually going through the armor, I saw a ballistics simulation where an is7 was hit with a Yamato shell and it actually did not go inside the tank, it just ripped open the hull but the majority of the shells mass was deflected.

[prisma jetty]

The three caliber rule prevents an auto bounce. It looks at effective thickness, and if you can go through, you do. If it’s too thick, you just fail to penetrate

[unique scaffold]

It prevents a bounce to a certain extent, but like I said when it just reaches a certain angle it will deflect. There is a video on youtube of a Jagaroo bouncing the front of a panzer three in blitz and it's pretty recent, and that's exactly what they do, they shoot such an obscene angle that penetration nor armor matters. But the chances of you bouncing anything like that in an actual battle are slim to none due to the three caliber rule. Also hitting such a sharp angle is very unlikely.

[prisma jetty]

I’m 99% sure that it wasn’t a bounce but a failed penetration, as they have rather similar animations. The three caliber rule does flat out prevent a ricochet from happening in blitz

[empty nexus]

It’s already got Low Alpha, but yeah If the alpha is buffed to 400 and Handling stats decreased it would be nice. The Hull is useless on flat land tho, and is relatively thin so the Mobility is kinda justified

@stuck acorn Sheridan makes me so angry. It has super troll armour, It bounced Shells like no Tomorrow AND is resistant To HE! It’s armour honestly needs a nerf

@real bison if you read my message, I’m saying it needs a nerf, but if you nerf the Gun handling quite substantially to make it more heavy-like then the Alpha needs to be buffed from 380 to 400.

Can I mention that hulldown it’s a god, but on flat land it’s like a squashed potato I’m ngl 😂

[real bison]

why should the hulldown god tank get a buff

[prisma jetty]

@unique scaffold Found the video. It’s just a non-penetration as there is no shell that ricochets off. In the ricochet animation, the shell is seen still flying after impacting the tank. Here, you can’t see it, therefore it is just a non-penetrating shot.

[unique scaffold]

Then wouldn't that solve your issue? Bouncing the engine deck of a leo doesn't seem like something to happen. Especially if it can only be about 160 effective but yet the three caliber rule didnt take place so the only answer there is would be the auto bounce angle. I literally cannot think of another reason why it would bounce, because if it was a non penetration then that means you didn't have 160mm of pen? Also he shoots the drivers port witch probably just absorbed the shot rather than a ricochet like usual.

[prisma jetty]

Auto ricochet angles don’t matter with overmatch. The shell literally cannot ricochet. This statement if from WG themselves on armor penetration mechanics in blitz.

[unique scaffold]

Then I have literally no idea what you want me to say, everything you are showing me says that bouncing the Leo is literally impossible but yet it apparently happened, so what are you getting at? People hit the track all the time and it won't penetrate or even break the track. Your basically telling me yourself it's impossible to happen, but convincing others it did happen so I find it hard to believe.

Funny enough, it makes more sense if you did hit the track because those count as non penetrations instead of ricochets

[prisma jetty]

Show me proof of the Leo bounce then.

[uneven narwhal]

If 3CR is applied
They either penetrate, or they don't penetrate
There is no ricochet in case of 3CR application

Perhaps you are using the colloquial term for non-pen that is *bounce"

[unique scaffold]

omg balance matchmaking its unfair when my team have 1 med and enemy 2

[unique scaffold]

Hey I'm not the one saying they bounced the leo in the first place lol, every tank can bounce shells on their tracks, if anything you need to show me proof you bounced the leos engine deck after you just proved it's impossible to bounce lmao

[prisma jetty]

I never said I bounced the Leo’s engine deck though. I said it was impossible to do.

[unique scaffold]

Then ask that doge guy for proof, it's a fact that people can bounce tracks if it's a leo or not, I'm only saying it's not entirely impossible but it would only do a non penatration if it was the track.

[prisma jetty]

How did we get on the conversation of tracks? I was just saying that bounces are impossible if the 3cr rule applies

[twilit crystal]

yup its possible to fail to penetrate if its 3 times. Best example is perhaps a derp 75 gun against 24 mm of armor

[nimble zodiac]

Did you perhaps hit the slit of spaced armor and miss the hull in the first place?

I distinguish between a bounce and a ricochet. A bounce is when the shell fails to penetrate the armor, and stops existing. A ricochet is when a shell hits the main armor, fails to penetrate, and ricochets to proceed flight elsewhere.

In this situation neither have happened, you hit spaced armor and missed the main hull armor.

@unique scaffold or he hit the spaced armor slit and missed the engine deck >:l
Man we really need a clip of this happening

[unique scaffold]

Well clearly the rule didnt apply if the guy bounced the shot lmao, I'm saying the only way he could have bounced was if he hit the tracks.

[nimble zodiac]

So the three caliber rule does exist, I just need a specific situation where you believe it didn't exist, and I can explain what happened

[unique scaffold]

https://youtu.be/xDQ8W50R3rc

[twin egret]

2 caliber rule then?

[prisma jetty]

Notice how the ufp is being shown? 183 doesn’t overmatch the ufp if the Leo

[unique scaffold]

It's still less than 200mms effective, and you asked for a video where the leo got bounced and there you have it.

And he repairs a module afterwards and I'm pretty sure it hit the track just like I said.

[prisma jetty]

1. It’s an auto bounce angle.
2. I said show me proof that the Leo got a bounce on the engine deck.
3. It didn’t hit the track as no repair kit was used and the HUD didn’t show a track crit, so it had to have hit the ufp.
   @nimble zodiac Bounces and Ricochets are the same thing though

[nimble zodiac]

1. It was a ricochet, not a bounce 😳
   I refuse, there is a difference between a shell that fails to penetrate the armor, and a shell that hits the armor at an angle which causes it to fly elsewhere 👿

@unique scaffold overmatching an armor plate doesn’t just ignore the armor, but because of the normalization taking hold, it’s an extremely rare situation where the overmatch won’t actually result in damage

[unique scaffold]

Nevermind he repaired his gun afterwards, and that's exactly why I thought it was an auto bounce angle earlier because its the only reasonable way he could have bounced apart from be just not getting hit in the engine deck. Also notice how an auto bounce angle ignores pen just like how the overmatch ignores armor, works both ways. So you decide whether or not to tell doge his thing just simply didn't happen or it was a freak accident auto bounce.

[prisma jetty]

The ufp was not overmatched, therefore a ricochet could be achieved. The engine deck is overmatched by any tier 9/10 tank, and therefore cannot ricochet. However, the shell can fail to penetrate the armor due to effective thickness. Also, overmatch does not ignore armor. It looks at effective thickness and does a penetration check.

[viscid bough]

CAn heat ricochet? I remember watching an old video on amour and it says heat can ricochet but I never seen it happen

[unique scaffold]

Sorry dude, but we already debunked that possibility. If we knew more details on how far he was and at what angle he hit it then maybe, but a Jagaroo AP shell just not penning this? C'mon man.

[real bison]

this is correct

HEAT will never ricochet

instead, it will attempt to pen the armour, regardless of if it will pen or not

edit: wait that’s PC

[prisma jetty]

Technically, yes. In practice? No. It takes an 85 degree angle in blitz to bounce, which you’ll almost never hit

@unique scaffold Obviously didn’t debunk it hard enough lol.

[unique scaffold]

That angle is easily over 85 degrees lmao, that's why I said it would be much easier if we got more details. And a 15mm plate is definitely going to be more effected by shell normalization, especially only a 35mm difference. So if it should have penned, then why did it not?

@prisma jetty The only way it makes sense is if auto bounce angles are prioritized over overmatch. Which actually does make sense since the shell has to enter the tank to do damage, and at a steep enough angle the shell won't enter the tank. It's that simple.

[prisma jetty]

1. 85 degrees is for a HEAT shell to ricochet, not for overmatch.
2. This angle can be increased, but I’m on my phone and honestly don’t have the time. Therefore, more effective armor, failed penetration

[drowsy spade]

I heard the TS-5 is getting a armor buff is that true?

[sleek grove]

Yes, along with turtle @drowsy spade

[nimble zodiac]

Can we not argue until actual evidence of a IX/X tank bouncing the Leo 1's engine deck is presented?

@stuck acorn give us something homie

[remote oriole]

HEAT doesn‘t ricochet in Blitz

[upbeat sphinx]

why has the isu 152 the fourth best dpm for a td at tier 8? Should it not be nerfed?
it makes some td irrelevant

[nimble zodiac]

It really doesn't, it fits in its own niche. It's a turretless, plastic, super-gunned TD. The other TDs have qualities that make them stand out from ISU-152

It pays dearly for the gun it has though, the mobility is mediocre, the armor is only really there on the mantlet, and it can't survive more than 3-4 usual heavy shots. It's not even too accurate. It's forced to function as an ambush TD or a sniper. It can't afford to be shot at all, and fails to make lines of fire like a borsig or a more mobile TD can.

[twin egret]

Then the Smasher Exists which can pen the front with HE I think

[nimble zodiac]

That's against SU-152, ISU-152 literally gets an armor upgrade just to counter 152mm HE

[upbeat sphinx]

not true, the armour is so trollish that I bet i twill receive at least one bounce per game.
It gets the best gun practically in every aspect expect the accuracy and aiming.
it is too strong, try guessing why there are not too many ferdi, wz 111 gft or any other td being played at tier 8. Only isu, and rhm for tech trees.

[prisma jetty]

Ferdi because it’s just bad lol, 111-g because not many people play the Chinese tech tree in general

[nimble zodiac]

ISU is played because it's really fun, but it requires so much work to position, protect, and make shots connect.

The armor is trollish only for bad players, if you think a tank is OP because of one medium sized spot that you can't penetrate, then that's a skill issue.

Rhm is a fun line too, I suspect ISU is played some because people think they can get the v4 through it xD

[mental pasture]

ISU-152 veteran here. No, it doesn't make any TD irrelevant.
The "trollish armor" is more likely to be called as "I only use autoaim and did hit the mantlet once". It has a low HP pool and can be taken down in 3 shots by a good 105mm gun. It has a good DPM, but it has no way to hurt you for 12 seconds straight after a shot, furthermore, it's turretless, so if you got HE by it you're either playing your light tank wrongly or didn't expect an ISU-152 camping.

It's nothing more than a SU-152 that can't be HEd in the front and has a good penetration.

[drowsy plaza]

Isn’t supposed to. But we’ve had updates where HEAT has ricocheted. Not recently - but it’s happened in the past. My cardinal rule is never say never in Blitz, because WG will make a liar out of you, even if accidentally for a period till a hot fix.

[stray verge]

ISU-152 is so weak! Its like a t7 at t8 and doesn’t have 4.2k DPM!

[mental pasture]

Don't get me wrong, it's a very good tank, but you counter it on the same way of countering a SU-152, it's actually faster because in tier 8 the guns deal more damage.

[neat crescent]

Like those times when u shoot grilles on the one pixel of the turret side and it will say it bounced regardless of shell 🤣 🤣

[uneven narwhal]

Nope, HEAT just fails to penetrate above 85°
It won't ricochet

[twin egret]

FV215b should get more gun depression

[winter heron]

Not sure that's possible without the gun going through the deck

[grim sun]

Hi! In update 8.7 Amx-50-120 will get enormous traverse and aim time nerf, what is the point of this nerf? I adore amx-50-120 and i do not like this nerf plus tank is almost has below average performance of all tier 9 heavies, i think this nerf will render it unplayable. Vk45.02 B also gets a traverse nerf (just why?) which is the worst performing heavy tank at tier 9 already.

[viscid bough]

It needs back its dpm and needs more HP too

[minor minnow]

One or the other, imo. That or it gets a mobility buff to compensate for the changes it’s gotten

[uneven narwhal]

Remove the super consumables
That'll make it easier to balance it

[twin egret]

You say that while the game is filled with inaccuracy. Did the tiger 1 really have that much armour in blitz as in irl? The Pz. V/IV has -10 gun depression AND uses the same turret as the Pz. IV yet that tank doesn't even have -10

[slim trellis]

Make vk72 go 50km/h backwards

Nah, if they want to really balance it make it 70km/h

[solid scaffold]

definitely balanced

[winter heron]

You don't understand. There's a difference between historical accuracy, which doesn't matter nearly at all for the sake of a video game, and basic logic. Playing a game that does things like having the gun go through the hull of its own tank is just absurd. For gameplay reasons WG chooses to let the gun go through most objects, which is fine, but having the barrel go through its own tank is just dumb.

[twin egret]

cough FV201 (A45), Cromwell B

Anyways, I think if you put two and two together, you could come to the realization that I meant that the gun dips down to -10 when it's over the hull, such as the sides and rear, not the front

Also did you read what I said about the Pz V/IV? I said it has -10 gun depression and looking at it it's clear that that gun would definitely clip through the roof

[slim trellis]

They can buff the depression specifically over the sides & rear to keep this from happening

[winter heron]

Alright, they could buff the gd along the sides and rear, but putting the tank on it's side while playing hulldown exposes too much weak hull, so the improvement wouldn't be that noticable.

As for the PZ V/IV, I'm looking at the model now, the barrel stays well away from the deck at all times. You must be talking about something else unrelated to the current discussion.

[twin egret]

Well of course it doesn't, look at it when the gun depresses over the sides bruh.

And what do you mean not much of an improvement, have you played that tank yourself yet? If you have then idk what you did with the tank, but I have found myself in several positions where the tank would have worked wonderfully if it had more gun depression to work with

[winter heron]

Fair, I don't own the 215b. But from playing almost any hulldown tank, I've never found myself wishing for more gd off of the sides or the rear, since that playstyle would force you to keep the entire hull hidden since it has no armor, while the front, when angled, bounces shots

[twin egret]

But the FV215b's playstyle is to basically keep the hull hidden though nowadays... and finding an effective use for the front plate is hard, it's around 150mm thick, it's easily pennable with prammo. The only places you could practally use it is when you are using your gun depression, though finding a positon for that is tricky, then you just instead stop trying to find a spot to do that and move sideways to have the terrain push up to enable you to shoot, while also having to expose the rear of the tank

FV215b's playstyle ≠ other rear-turreted tank playstyles

[winter heron]

The front plate, when fully hulldown pointed straight forwards, ranges from 366mm at its weakest and 400 at its strongest. That's more than enough against most tanks, safe for a select few TDs.

You must be exposing your lower plate when you play.

[twin egret]

Oohh totalllyy, surely I'm exposing my lowerplate after playing the tank for more than a thousand battles.

Put your focus on senarios and not how i'm playing please. It's literally what I'm focusing on, senarios.

[winter heron]

Nice job ignoring my point about the front plate.

As I said, the front plate is fine, especially if you angle it left/right, which would give armor values higher than the number I gave you, which are quite high to begin with.

Here's a scenario: you're hulldown against an IS7. It can't pen you.

[twin egret]

Well obviously it's fine when using your gun depression, I needed not to comment

And yes the IS-7 can't pen my UFP, 311mm APCR pen, regardless if I'm using some gun depression or angling it with no gun depresion.
Change that with any tank with 330mm HEAT and I'll have to be using gun depression. I'd have to angle it too if the tank with HEAT has nearly 370mm.
Let's not talk about the Ho-Ri...

Suppose I did not have cover to begin with and I was face hugging this IS-7, that UFP would be butter
If I was doing this on a small ridge against the IS-7 then it's a different story

[winter heron]

This is all true. Given this, how would giving the tank more gun depression help in a situation where you're not using gun depression?

I have other things to do. Good night m8

[sleek grove]

Damn saying fv25b is bad when it's known to be bad is like saying outside is raining when ur soaking wet.
We get.
It's bad.
But there are better tanks out there so go play them instead.
I never liked it anyway

[twin egret]

I'd like to see you answer this question yourself but goodnight

Besides that, how long have you've been on blitz?

@sleek grove you say that as if we could easily obtain a VK 90. And what other better tanks are there that have a unique playstyle rather than a boring one?

[winter heron]

I guess I have time for one more, because this is absurd.

The answer to that question is "it doesn't help". That's my point. You said it would help to add more gun depression. You proved yourself wrong when you said that the tank is just fine when fully hull down using gun depression.

Not that it matters, (no point in making personal attacks after all) but I've been playing on and off for 5 to 6 years now. I just don't play much per day bc I'm a busy uni student and I have a life. You?

[twin egret]

Well idk about me saying that it's fine since you we were both referring to a situation where it was possible to do it. Meanwhile the possibility and praticality of that ever happening is rare or hard to come by. Many of the positions that exist are limited by the gun depression, like they could worked if the FV215b had just one more degree. Spots which the FV215b can work with it's hull are hard to come by because of the gun depression, and becausd how maps today are built like.

Regardless, My whole idea was how the FV215b needs more gun depression to crest the ridgelines of today, not how it has to use it's front hull to do so

Besides that, yeah I do have a life, but I'd rather not boast

[winter heron]

Alright. Good talk. Night man

[twin egret]

Yeah good night

[remote oriole]

I don‘t mean to be disrespectful but I generally disregard temporary bugs or mistakes when talking about long term stable mechanics.

For tank balance I can see why it matters but for mechanics it‘s at most worth a side note when there is currently a bug breaking the mechanic (if you can expect it to be fixed)

[sleek grove]

one of my friends sent me this, tiger 1 penning with HE an action X, hmmmm , balance hmmmm

[candid steeple]

There's a saying. On british higher tiers don't show your side.

[candid steeple]

Well I am just here to say and go. Good job WG on ruining amx 50 100. Make a worse version of Emil I and kill good old glass canon that skill made good. Yes buff armor on everything. Make everything play the same. Who likes diversity and less armor? I know maybe people who are not dumb but it seems this game is made for dumber an dumber people. Once a balanced and fun tank to drive now a garbage that is not even usable. Just again to say. Good job WG.

[mental pasture]

Hmmm, yes.
Transform a whole glass cannon line from tier 7 to 9 in heaviums. It's not like the whole point of their existence is being glass cannons anyway.

[empty nexus]

Honestly I feel Buffing the T8 and 9’s hulls (AMX) would’ve been better, as it would’ve represented what the tier 10 plays like.

[candid steeple]

My problem with AMX 50 100 is that they buffed turret armor but hammer nerfed it's mobility. Only reason why I liked 50 100 is because of combo of autolaoder and that mobility. Now they got rid of that combo and tank is a garbage. I hate that change. I would play 50 100 from time to time but not forget it. I got 68% on tier IX is tank is fine but I don't like playing it.

This line is supposed to be a glass canon. Buffing AMX 50 100 turret armor is useless because turret is really small and hull is to big. It's hard to hide hull so buff to turret armor is meaningless but WG can't realise that. I really don't get what is going in their minds.

[orchid grove]

Welcome to WG’s new balance philosophy in action. AMX 50 100 is a “devastator”

And unfortunately for us, the “devastator” tag applies to all autoloader heavies. 50 100, Emil II, T57, they’re all “devastators”. So WG is balancing them all to be similar.

It’s a garbage design philosophy

[grim sun]

They will also nerf amx-50-120 next update, traverse speed and aim time get nerfed in big margins. For amx 50 series it is all about mobility and aim time. I will play this game less, less and less.

[mental pasture]

Make a few heavy tank lines with autoloaders
Design them to do different roles
Wait a few months (or years)
Make them all look the same

[candid steeple]

Every old line they change I stop playing. I can't stand changing tanks identity for the sake of their dumb philosophy. Well I am playing the game less and less. Kran got nerfed because of speed booster so they limited Kran even more. I stopped playing it and it's line. E5 got nerfed because of special consumables. I no longer play E5. E3 got nerfed because of special consumables. I stopped playing it but I never liked the tank so eh. Also they killed my plesure of playing KV-4 with stupid turret buff. Tank used to be I wiggle the turret and you can't pen me but now it's an idiot proof side scraping tank. Witch each change buff or nerf they change the identity and play style of the tank. Probably the biggest reason why I like old Blitz. Graphics were worse but what? Game even with less lines war more diverse. Tier X was not like all mediums should have strong turret. Patton was butter STB was butter E 50 M was butter. Dpm was less. Heavies didn't have dumb special consumables. Also lights were not all out broken. Also there was no spall liner but this is newer. Like common WG do you even play your game? What we need is diversity and not forced rock paper scissors system. That system is cringe WG.

I didn't say it's weak. I just don't like it after you can also shoot at cupola. Tbh after playing E3 you figure out how easy that tank is to pen. It angles just a bit and you shot pen track the track wheel. Easy done. Also tank is too slow for me and that's the biggest reason but it's jsut my preference.

[drowsy plaza]

E3 is still pretty broken

[sleek grove]

Ngl I think ppl with a head on their shoulder will like the special consumables removed, we had those types of discussions multiple time, but ig WG does that to diversify the gameplay. but the gameplay took a stale position ngl

[candid steeple]

In my opinion universal consumables and provisions all stay as always but all special provisions and consumables out. It did nothing good to the game. Instead it made tournaments dumb and tanks nerfed because of consumables and not the tank itself. Heavies temporarely going with speed of mediums and leaving tanks without booster in dust. To easy to run away or catch up with you. Then things that reduce damage you take. And now dumb tungsten shells which is literally pay to have more damage. And my favorite thing of it all is spall liner on WT. Hey tank is super broken. Lets make it even more. I just love how dumb idea WG had regarding WT. I am okay with Rhm and 4005 having Spall liner if it must be but Grille and WT not. Tank's balancing factor is HE and they removed it. Big brain time by WG.

Now they are like nerfing WT dpm little bit but also buffing top speed because who not. It's not like tank couldn't reach broken camping spots before any TD an there are also some spots that only WT can effectively use. And we wont talk about that low skill OP camo rating. Tank can stand 70m in front of you and you can't spot it. I few times got penned like that. WT is standing in open but I can't spot it. because it's a spot where you usually spot tanks if you see no one you think it's safe and then WT slaps you. Tank is just cringe and low skill and that's why it's spammed. Any noob can be good in the tank especially with nerfs to it's only counter.

[lunar niche]

WT has better gun angles in 15cm compared to its 128mm gun and Grille's 15cm lol.

Meanwhile Grille gets the worst gun angles of both 15cm and 128mm of WT without full rotating turret lol.

Can't wait for another dpm buff.

[sleek grove]

Grille 15 misses a gun u mentioned, it's called grille 15 because it only has the 150mm gun

[full token]

128mm on the WT

[lunar niche]

Grille's 15 cm takes the worst gun angles from both of WT's guns.

WT can at least use its better gun angles without getting spotted along with faster hull traverse.

Didn't the 15cm gun had worse angles than 128mm on WT?

[full token]

Still does

[unique scaffold]

Dpm buff on grille? 😶

[bronze osprey]

is 3.6k not enough?

[sleek grove]

the only thing id like to see on grille is to have its concealment improved

[nimble zodiac]

??

[unique scaffold]

This is so stupid all the time im stuck with these people that start to play the game and just buy their way up to t8 or higher just bec you morons want money pls set a restriction on some of the purchases with the amount of games /skill bec this is absurd my rating and everything went down bec of this bullshit

[nimble zodiac]

Yes but this isn't the right channel for it

[winter heron]

Don't call the devs morons. No one's listening to you. Also profanity <@&481447501690568709>

[sleek grove]

Here we go, another monkey complaining about the game, next.

Damn @unique scaffold we kinda don't care

[unique scaffold]

Yeah right they wont listen to anyone bec they only want you to see them open your pocket and want to see your money bec THEY DONT care about the community .ps i already deleted all of my accounts to spare you the trouble of doing anything for once bye WARGAMBLING

[empty nexus]

K

[unique scaffold]

that's what I was asking

[bronze osprey]

yea ik that but why ask, it's quite fine where it is with 3.6k

[winter heron]

Lmao this rant made my day

[twin egret]

Cringe

[noble crescent]

Why is the game full with Bots or brainless Player?! Sometimes when I buy something in game like Containers I win nearly every game but when I buy nothing I Lose like 17/20 battles because every f Tank camping

[distant river]

Welcome to human bias, part 1

[sleek grove]

Oh no, now ppl are speculating that not spending in a day can give u bad rng.
We live in a society.

[twin egret]

Have you considered not playing the game

[nimble zodiac]

No no, let them rant so they can get muted/banned <3

[stuck acorn]

Let him play. More free dmg

[sleek grove]

I love seeing ppl complaining about the game being rigged against them.
Such a lovely dopanime boost

[mental pasture]

Nice to see another crying guy on EU, if he gets on enemy team then I'll have free damage to farm

[unique scaffold]

Can the T28 defender have attachments on it?

[sudden garden]

Where is the server in spanish?

[neat crescent]

Yes but only like 2 and they're limited/rare, it can, but you can only equip the flamethrower one, the reaction faces one for $ and the current snowball ones @unique scaffold

[unique scaffold]

you sure? someone told me it cant have them

[real bison]

not in existence

there should be a Spanish WoTB discord somewhere, but it won’t be official

[gleaming apex]

Mr.Duck#5905 has been warned.

[modest atlas]

Please add bots for tier I to IV where less player

[grim sun]

AI controlled bots are playing better than avg. players most of the time.

[inner lotus]

I think bourrasque needs a buff in either dpm (to remain a medium) or camo (become at light tank) the tank itself is tiny and can even hide behind the hull of some medium but the camo rating is absolutely awful. Dpm is laughable for a medium and would only make sense if it were a light tank thats hard to spot.

[prisma jetty]

"Camo rating is awful" has best in class concealment

[nimble zodiac]

Uh oh, someone doesn't realize Blitz maps are tiny

@karmic wagon it is very sufficient for a medium tank, if you struggle, the APCR should do the job well

[winged barn]

Omg borat isn't cloned from pc (it's broken there) needs buff

[karmic wagon]

hello , i really hope they buff skoda t27 a bit more pen on normal ammo , even it can burst 660 damage in 3 second, but it cant deal damage if the ammo cant pen

[nimble zodiac]

Skoda T 27 is like a tier 8 Strv 74A2, a versatile autoloader with a quick clip to dump. It's not that bad at all

[nimble zodiac]

1. Lower tiers' pen aren't really getting better, not majorly at all
2. Predator lacks enough leverage to make trades since it has a huge profile and not too much armor
3. The pen of the tank would be fine if it wasn't for it having HEAT for standard shells
4. The HE makes good splash damage, you're just not impacting thin plates indirectly
5. The cupola is difficult to HE, since only 152mm guns (or RU/Kpz) can penetrate a small portion of it

[noble crescent]

Funny Glitch I found here, if u choose in ur Garage a random Tank who cant have a Camo and than go to ur inventory and use the First Camo to Look how it would Look on a Tank (perfekt English) it choose the Tank that u choosed

[stuck acorn]

well both of those tanks from haloween 2017 event are just simply bad and they could get something. Vindicator is just worse SU 152/Smasher and predator is well... i don't even know how to describe that pile of garbage. Vindicator could get the coupola removed as it's pennable in the sides even if it angles just a little bit and it's slow and big so having strong frontal armor could be something that would make it worth to play. And for the predator as i never actually played it idk what it needs, but some more pen and dpm should do the job

[silver tundra]

average EU players

[sleek grove]

<@&481447501690568709> nitro scam

[wet bramble]

Should Obj.907 be buffed?

[gray cypress]

So when's someone in WG's team gonna realize it's a bad idea to have 3 TDs per team? Literally half of the game is made up of tank destroyers, oh the variety of gameplay it provides. There should be max 2 TDs in a team, 1 would be perfect. @unique scaffold I disagree heavily, the only thing it does is remove possible variety in gameplay when there's 3 TDs camping at the back, most likely in the same position waiting for someone to get spotted. TDs should play a supporting role in a battle but now since they make up half of the team, whatever happens to them/how well they do determines the outcome of the battle. @unique scaffold aha I see, all good 😄

[unique scaffold]

Offers an opportunity for discovering more about your side of the map by looking around since who is going to poke 3 TDs

@gray cypress Sorry my intention was to joke with my statement like "lol who's gonna poke 3 TDs just roam around your side"
Didn't mean to justify the 3TD MM

[mental pasture]

Well, it's not total truth to say "TDs should play a support role in the battle". You know, TDs should play a support role, unless you are a T110E3 in a ridge, this one is Frontline for sure.

[upbeat sphinx]

The superheavies should not spawn on third spawn on Normandy, they cannot reach the hill fast enough or go to the heavy side without being shot from the hill
It doesn't make any sense

[lime torrent]

Wargaming please start dealing with afk players if they dont move like give a hour ban or something i see so many afk's those days, playing 5vs7 is not fun anymore

[mental pasture]

It's impossible to know the reason of being AFK, if it was possible, then it'd be a great way to deal with them.

Listen here, how can you judge on the same way those four situations?

• The player isn't AFK, he's just camping and waiting an enemy appear
• The player is AFK because he went to the kitchen just to drink water
• The player is AFK because of an important reason (received the news of a family member that died, had to go to the hospital, passed out, isn't feeling well, mental health in poor conditions)
• The player is AFK because of a blackout/sudden lost connection

[lime torrent]

I know there are reasons sometimes to go afk but 1 hour ban thats nothing, like wargaming make a bot that collects every battle info or something those players doesnt even turn they turret, im bored to play 5vs7

[mental pasture]

You're judging the situation emotionally, not rationally. You want an 1 hour ban for every AFK player just because you're stressed with a 3d game.

How could anyone be declared guilty for something totally out of your control? Let's imagine you're playing normally and suddenly your dad start feeling extremely bad. Unless you're some kind of psycho, you WILL help him and leave the game, even tho you'd be declared guilty and banned for 1 hour just because you did the right thing to do.
If it can declare an innocent player as guilty of something he can't control and ban him for it, even if it's a small ban, then bad and must never be implemented

By the way, if you dream to be a lawyer, a procecutor or a judge, you must either change your mindset urgently or find another job that you desire.

[unique scaffold]

Really well said

Being AFK is next to never in your hands, it's always uncontrollable, you should not be penalised heavily for that
The current system works well in which you get no XP or credits and is perfectly understandable

[lime torrent]

Yeah if you enjoy staying at 40wr with afks i dont mind, thanks god in ratings there are no afks. And now another thing wanna fix that praising buttons that does nothing even when u mark player provactive behaviour because they spam n word but doesnt get a chatban

[mental pasture]

I don't enjoy it, who ever said I do like to be in a 6vs7 situation? But do you think I want every AFK to be banned? NO! What if I reported someone for being AFK and this guy really "leaved" the PC/cellphone because he/she had a literal seizure? Why would I ever want to ban a guy because he had a seizure mid-game? If it was you, you'd even think about putting WG in a lawsuit because of this.
Nevermind, because in your world, any sick person can't play the game. "It's not my problem if they suddenly get great problems and leave the game because of this"

[full token]

Hating them doesn’t mean overly punishing them. Serial AFK-ers will eventually get the sort of bans you ask for, but not the ones who go afk once in a while.

[lime torrent]

@mental pasture lol your situations that now u told happens 1 in like a million and if its a 3d game as you say, nobody would care about 1h ban if their parents would die or anything else would happen they only would think about their close ones

[real bison]

imagine complaining about AFKs

the enemy team get them too

and it’s fine when you get to farm an AFK, but somehow not fine when you have an AFk??

[mental pasture]

In laws, there's a term called as "Presumption of innocence". It means that, if by any chance the proof leads to an innocent person, then this person must be declared innocent. After all, It's better to have a few criminals free than leaving 1 innocent paying for the problems of others. If it happens rarely it doesn't matter. Chances are irrelevant.

Even if it's 1 hour, 30 minutes, 1 minute or 1 second. NONE must be punished for something you never had control. Regardless if you care about the punishment or not.

I REALLY hope you'll never work in any areas that involves laws or accusations, otherwise an innocent will pay for your mistakes.@lime torrent

Confirmation bias on the first 2 lines I see.

nice, the auto moderator deleted my explanation of confirmation bias

[prisma jetty]

It’s been this way since the beginning of the game. People afk, deal with it. Win your side, and then you can help the rest of your team. All I have to say is, carry harder.

[lime torrent]

@real bison first of all i wouldnt complain if i would get the same amount afks as the enemys does but i allways get more. @mental pasture hope you stop with your long texts because my brain cells is gone, im done with you dont even text anything. @prisma jetty i mostly sit at top dmg of all my team, yeah i win like 60% but afks no its annoying. And what wg was thinking with not working praising system, players can spam n word and happens nothing to them, when i got chat ban for "f*k noobs"

[real bison]

sounds like a bit of confirmation bias to me

and what about yolo’ers? they often also achieve little in terms of actually helping the team

also, if you think @mental pasture ‘s texts are long... look at Lux’s when he gets serious

[lime torrent]

Yolo'ers they spot , they sometimes do small amount of damage thats still something. And yolo people you mostly can see that in derp tanks or dracula. Yeah wg wont change anything about afks, im out of this discussion.

[frail silo]

how do you know you don't get the same amount of afks as enemies? do you have statistical data or is it some kind of idea similar to rigged MM myth?
it is also literally not that often to get AFKs. and that is speaking from personal experience.

@lime torrent Lol, you are like those "MM is so rigged against me" people.

[fierce scroll]

Guys in tx is more balanced,because like this its ridiculous

[unique scaffold]

Seeing is not enough, you need to have a statistic on it
It's well known that the human mind in general has an exceptional ability to focus only on the negative things, positive things always seem to get ignored

[real bison]

The human mind will also always find evidence that supports their claim

that is confirmation bias

[mental pasture]

Every players will always see more AFKs in his own team for two simple reasons

Either the enemy was AFK but came back to control before getting spotted or the AFK enemy will be dead before you even notice that it's AFK.

[frail silo]

393 battles 30 days.
i can confidently say the battles with AFK's in them won't even come close to 5%.

[lime torrent]

1.1K 30 days and there was probably around 50 battles with atleast 1 afk. @mental pasture 5% is enough to piss me off

[uneven narwhal]

4.5% based off a hunch

[mental pasture]

Well, @frail silo's guess was actually accurate. If you did exactly 1100 battles and 55 had AFKs, it stills 5%.

[real bison]

that’s still ~95% of battles where there wasn’t AFKs

how are you still mad lol

[nimble zodiac]

@lime torrent afk players haunt multiplayer games all of the time, and honestly, 5% is low.

You always notice you get afks more because you can't see the entire enemy team most games.

WG deals with afk players by giving them no rewards after the battle, if you really want something done, you can report the afk players (I recommend you stick to the ones actively afking every game they play, since they probably mean to afk)

[royal moon]

this funny tank called smasher needs a buff, the turret are slow and guns very slow, and turret can only depress slightly

[full token]

Not the only funny thing

[gleaming apex]

404/FOUND#4274 has been warned.

[lime torrent]

lol 😂

[drowsy plaza]

Put a ticket in if you feel so aggrieved by an AFK.

The AFK aspect while it can be annoying, isn’t significantly about balance.

Take it to #general-blitz-discussion

[lime torrent]

when everyone wants that tank to be nerfed but the one guy talks about buff

[nimble zodiac]

As a joke of course

[unique scaffold]

fun and all in #devs-answers with the new balance methods, but why the heck 215b got nerfed in hell? it has nothing now, even with your own statements its underperforming tank, also you didnt include gun depression into those things, which plays a major role in battlefields too
@sleek grove when fv215b got nerfed it already was out of meta, because it got nerfed 3 times...
now the best thing about the tank is its AVERAGE dpm... i believe there are t9 tanks stronger than it
e5 is still fine, it has little beloe average dpm, but its still very versatile, quick, good gun dep, strong armour overall and insane gold pen, fv215b without dpm advantage is just useless

[sleek grove]

E5, 215b got nerfed so they can get replaced by new tanks being meta.....and possibly for the C1b release

[twin egret]

Sorry law is different in different places

[mental pasture]

That`s how it works with the greatest democracies today.

[jagged crescent]

🤔🍦_ _

[mental pasture]

I have no idea about how the laws in Poland works, but I said "greatest" for a reason. USA, Canada, Australia, UK, France, Germany, etc.

[empty nexus]

He ain’t wrong doe

[sleek grove]

Damn bro, u got the whole server laughing, keep up with the clown vibe

[nimble zodiac]

Cuties arguing

[full token]

'no offense' like that really helps

[sleek grove]

imagine getting offended on the internet doe, kinda cringe

[next quail]

This sistem is bad for one reason, some games you can get no dmg because you play stock tanks to grind for better modules, i dont think it is fair to play a stock amx ac 46 a foch 122 or smth else stock and get nothing just because you couldnt pen anything or you were missing all your shots, i think there should be a second criteria like meters moved or bounces you get

[twin egret]

Some stock tanks aren't even stock at all technically speaking

[gleaming apex]

Dokutah#7388 was muted

C1P#7408 has been warned.

[sleek grove]

💀

[outer glen]

Hammer saved the day
And why nerf is8 max speed?

[full token]

Must be the new balance approach they use

[sleek grove]

I mean this is what they been doing in wot PC for a few years now.
For example, e50m is set to be assault medium tank, so every other tank that falls under that criteria will most likely have close stats, almost can't tell the difference.

[empty nexus]

Sounds… not very good? Considering WOT PC’s state

[sleek grove]

That definitely isn't good, it pulls out the uniqueness of weach vehicle, honestly considering the current meta of blitz, I'd say there are gonna be more and more hulldown tanks,especially in heavy class

[empty nexus]

Hulldown meta isn’t good at all for the game, I don’t mind Tanks having sting turrets as long as they have obvious weak spots or are trash when not hulldown

[sleek grove]

nobody likes hulldown meta, nobody likes a meta that stalls the game.
but thats how the game evolves now, copy paste of other tanks so they can fit.

[real bison]

agree with the sentiment on hulldown meta

just like to highlight a game where I went to a hulldown spot on Falls Creek, it was on the bridge in my M4 54, an IS-4, T95E6, and IS-8 had to push into non-ideal positions, and got farmed by my team, all because I went to 1 hulldown spot.

Sure, I died, but I forced 3 enemy players into going into bad positions where they’d be farmed by my team

And this is why I hate the argument of “just flank them”

Often times you are forced to fight them head on, especially if you’re both heavies, and flanking them often puts you in danger as well

[sleek grove]

good players will sacrifice a small chunk of their HP so they can make a succesful flank, but as teams are so impredictable , more often than not , they fail

[unique scaffold]

Honestly, 0 damage games are very rare, even with stock tanks on lower tier, you should be able to get at least one shot off
Although the metres moved criteria is nice, would be better

[drowsy plaza]

If you are having issues with zero damage games, you are probably playing a tier you are grossly under skilled to play in.

[prisma jetty]

Or playing too aggressively for your skill level

[next quail]

Try play the amx ac 48 stock its like a maus but with 3 cupola s a big chunky lower plate and the gun is for fireworks not for dealing dmg

[unique scaffold]

You should be able to get at least one shot off nevertheless
I understand that doing so is hard and you will average bad in the tank, but if you are consistently landing on zero damage games.....
I suggest you hold off the grind for now, uprising is around the corner

[winter heron]

Isn't that how it works? You can get spots, dmg by assistance, etc in order to meet the non-afk requirement

[stuck acorn]

not really. If you do 0, even if you get 5k of spot you will get nothing

[next quail]

Nope, 0 dmg means 0 credits

[drowsy plaza]

I don’t think that’s how it works.

[unique scaffold]

Code BESAFENY22 :100 bells

[stuck acorn]

btw i think that some stock tanks should recieve some buffs. And i know that these are stock tanks and they are meant to be significantly worse than their maxed versions, but some of them are too bad. Some of them are that bad that making even one shot is hard. ekhm stock ST-1, yes it's about you. They are that useless, that having one of them is basically one tank down at the start

[sleek grove]

✨ Free exp exists ✨

My take on this is that there is no need to buff stock tanks for the sake of bad players, they will struggle even with maxed tanks.
Also its kinda natural selection, reaching, in your example, sti , tier 9, and not having free exp is just noob behavior.
WG, as they previously did on ecomony changes, should stop aiding bad players at the cost of great and above players

Gold rounds exists, bad players, obviously won't take them, but someone with more than half a braincell will and use them in need.

[stuck acorn]

And? Not all players have it. Even if free exp exists, it won't stop bad players and people without it from playing those tanks. It's not only painfull for this one player without free exp, but his inability to do anything affects all team which is basically one tank down at the start. I think that stock tanks even if should be worse, should be at least playable and capable of doing anything

@sleek grove If this would affect only the stock tank player, then ok, but i'm sick of having stock ST-1's or other E50's in my team that can't even pen a medium tank in front, not even talking about heavies that are meta now.

@sleek grove problem here is that even gold shell on stock ST-1 can't pen a front of medium tank. 217 mm of pen at T9 is not enough. Same goes for E50 with 230 mm

@versed tide agreed

[versed tide]

Stock tanks shouldn’t be unplayable like some of them are

[real bison]

think the other way too:

If you give the ST-1 the top gun immediately, what about those tier 8s?

Not many tier 8s can stand up to 340 base HEAT

which is why I think tier 9 grinds should stay as they are, they should be hard, yet very rewarding

[sleek grove]

Honestly idc at this point about stock tanks, I don't grind them anymore, plus the number of players in both teams who have stock tanks decreased substantially in the last couple of years with the x3 and x5 and boosters rewards, it's like wg wants to rush players to t10.
I don't mind seeing one in my team once In a blue moon.

[stuck acorn]

No need to give a top gun immediatly. Nobody said that. Just remove the first stock gun and start with the IS-3 gun, or replace the first stock with some new gun with buffed pen. Same goes for E50 and conq. Not being able to have over 250 at T9 even on gold basically makes you useless

@sleek grove bruh. it won't take you 10 games to get 100k exp which is needed for maxing out the T9 tank (at least 100k). And in those games, not only you will suffer, but your whole team. Also do you expect a newcomer to know that modules are shared between tanks and which one exactly? i personally have that knowledge as i already have all tanks in the game, but still seeing stock tanks in the game is pretty common and they ruin the experience for others.

[sleek grove]

If ur smart with the grinding of each nation, most modules are shared between lines.
The easiest example is the stock gun on Conway is the top gun on tortoise, saves u a lot a time and pain.
Also Chinese med and heavy tanks share the same guns along the whole line so u save literally hours of grinding in between those 2 lines.
The game isn't about blindly grind every line the way u want, sometimes the game makes ur life easier if u know where to look.
As for stock tanks, they are playable for 10 wins so that u can get better modules, u just need to push yourself harder, can't have it easy in life yk.

[stuck acorn]

no need to buff accuaracy, alpha etc, leave that alone. Just buff the pen so they can at least pen anything except the light tanks and glass canon TDs

[full token]

new players wont be aware of smart strategies for grinding lines. They might not even realise modules can get shared. They just want a tier X and if that happens to be the IS4 they wont look for reasons to take longer to get the is4 to save themselves some pain theyve never gone through before

[sleek grove]

Well that's on them for not being experienced enough 💀
I've been there too, I pulled it off eventually. Wasn't pleasing, but in time it got better with free exp 💀

[stuck acorn]

And? it might sound a little bit rude, but nobody cares about your experience. No need to push others in that. Would it hurt you in ANY way if stock guns of tanks like Wz 120, T54, St 1, E50, Conqueror, Centurion 7/1 would get like 20-30 additional mm of pen on standard and gold rounds? ( cent and conq maybe less but still something)

@sleek grove it's not necessarily the case. They can just remove the gun from previous tank from the upper tier and replace it with same gun but with more pen and different name

@upbeat sphinx just don't pick onto smahser lol. Splash HE dmg are prettty fair as they are only way to damage ctanks in certain positions

[sleek grove]

Yes it would hurt.
Why? Because now the stock gun of a tank got buffed meaning the top gun from the previous tank got buffed by the same amount too, causing an imbalance in the game, once again.

@stuck acorn so your take is the incapacitate a tank by removing its top gun, just for the sake of having the next tank better as stock?
I want to believe you're kidding

[surreal rivet]

Y'all quarreling about stock and I'm here suffering with 50% crew why you ask cuz i like suffering
Hi there ms-1

[upbeat sphinx]

Nerf he damage If not penned, I got damaged by 300 on average damage while being shot in the turret on a t 34 ( 279 mm) by a smasher
It is too much, it should do only 100 dmg by he

[nimble zodiac]

I mean for ST-I at least you can get the BL-9 from the IS-3, which is neat (and decently inconvenient if you didn't have it before)

@upbeat sphinx he may have hit your turret roof, which is very thin, and HE splashes in a way that targets the weakest plate in its explosion radius, and the thin plate allows for a lot of splash damage to be done

@surreal rivet ello

[upbeat sphinx]

I was hull down, he hit the gun mantlet
It is not fair
I guess if glass cannon can have spall liner then every tank should be able to equip it

[stuck acorn]

bruh. no need to remove it frm all tanks. Jus remove it from the upper tier. Let it be at lower one @sleek grove

[nimble zodiac]

Splashed your thin deck then

[sleek grove]

This statement is just so hard to look at and not laugh, cmon man, we both know it's such a bad idea, let there be stock tanks the way they are and the way they have been for 7y,no need to rant because u had a game with a stock tank, go play ratings if u wanna miss them

[rare sleet]

Stock tanks are fundamental to the game. And the suffering should remain no matter how bad it is. I've made tons of dumb mistakes trying to rush to a high tier leaving me with nothing to upgrade and playing a terrible stock tank.

Tanks should not be decent to play out when you first get it, the whole point of the game is to slowly work up and upgrade modules and improve the combat ability of the tank the more you play it. Removing such an essential aspect purely because some people can't handle playing stock tanks is absurd. Saying "Not everyone has free exp" is wrong too, with enough grinding, using boosters, and playing normally can make enough free exp since high tier grinds are so long anyways. The problem is Wargaming making the grinds TOO SHORT nowadays leaving players leveling up too quickly and having torturing themselves trying to credit grind or free exp grind to unlock the next tier up while not building skill in the process. Stock modules do not need such major modifications, if players since the dawn of the game are able to handle the crucial gameplay why can't you?

@stuck acorn Since your tank is at a natural disadvantage, it is up to you the player to make up for what it lacks. Do not quote imbalance from games having teams with or without stock tanks. If you can't pen a tank, you may have left your tank in a undesirable position, and you the player could've done something about it. And Lets just say okay you cant do anything in a certain position, well boohoo that happens all the time. The System is perfectly fine as it is, nothing needs to be changed.

[stuck acorn]

Bruh. So you shouldn't remove imbalance factor from games (one team is obviously privilaged because it doesn't have stock useless tank) just because this imbalance factor existed for 7 years now? cmon this is something worth a good laugh

@rare sleet did i ever say that tanks should be good without grind? No. Just give them pen to be able to do anything. That's all. Leave the rest as it is

@wooden quest wtf. Don't join discussion if you didn't read it. I already have all tanks in the game, neither i have problems with penning tanks. Still giving a heavy tank with no mobility to flank around 175 pen at T9 is a bad joke. Having or not having skill has nothing to do here. With this kind of pen, you won't even be able to pen most of coupolas, leave alone lower plates and stuff like this.

I NEVER SAID that these tanks need good pen. They just need pen allowing them to penetrate weakspots. Nothing more

[surreal rivet]

Isn't even a big deal

[sleek grove]

M8, if u seriously have issues winning when u have a stock tank in your team, ur the problem.
I gave you the easiest and most accessible solution : ratings.
👏 Stock guns dont need buffs 👏
👏 Bad players need to be taught more 👏

[wooden quest]

If ur in a position where you KNOW your tank can't penetrate the enemy, yet you remain in that position only to further complain about how stock tanks suck and need a pen buff. It's obviously your fault not the tanks fault. You need to learn how to work around a problem not just sit there and complain about not being able to pen.

Also means your opponent is playing the game right, using their natural advantage to beat someone who can't problem solve for themselves

[stuck acorn]

Bruh, it's so dumb. YES you are bad because you can't pen enemy when literally rolls out into the middle. it's your fault because you didn't flank him with 20 - 30 km/h or sometimes even less speed. Yes it's your fault that you can't penetrate even his tiny coupola that you probably won't hit anyways. C'mon. I have nothing against bad pen. But every tank should be able to pen other tank if he makes enough effort to aim at his tiny weakspot. No matter if it's stock or not.

If you aim and hit for example E75's coupola because he was standing like a bot in the middle, then you should pen. He shouldn't be something you can't beat in any way even if he has 30% wr just because you are stock

Don't make these tanks good, just give them way to fight

@surreal rivet bruh. Will 217 mm make any difference? no. You still won't pen anything. Literally anything

[surreal rivet]

Use gold shells 💀

[wooden quest]

Yes it is your fault that you didn't save free exp for the ST-I, yes it is your fault you didn't do any research for the line, yes it is your fault for playing stock ST-I before you knew any better. All wargaming does is lay out the foundation and the groundwork for tanks and modules, everything beyond that is the players decision. Smart players will obviously position themselves against other players who can't pen them at all, that's just how the game is and if you get caught in a position where you can't pen a tank because you are a stock ST-I, reflect back on yourself, grind a new line, make enough FREE EXP to not get stuck in the same situation you are before. The Whole Entire Game Is a Learning Experience.

[sleek grove]

@stuck acorn man are u literally fighting for the bots who can't tap on gold shells and can't take a second to aim?
I'm pretty sure nobody here complains about stock tanks, nor we care at this point.
As ppl went on 7y with "bad" pen on stock tanks u can go on too

[upbeat sphinx]

There is one thing about stock tanks, especially at tier 9: there is an imbalance between the experience required to fully equip the tank, and this difference is extremely relevant from tanks that have been released recently and old school.
I.e. conqueror and m103 have to invest something like 150k exp each to research the last gun while Emil 2 has the top gun for just 35k exp.
I would like to see thing solved out, by removing unnecessary guns from tech tree.
For instance the t122 120mm on the m103, that has worst specs exepct the weight ( 0.31 t) than the top gun.
Same thing with the 20 pounder on the conqueror, just keep one of the variant as stock and don't let the users research another 20 pounder.

[tender eagle]

WG please do NOT put new 20s spot into the game. It will reduce effectiveness of paper TDs and disadvantage their team.

[vale geyser]

i dislike the idea entirely. and im pretty sure they get the op tracks too. this might mean the tanks themselves will be garbage
i havent looked at the stats idk

[scenic stone]

Lmao, since when is 230mm AP pen at T9 bad?
My T54 and 7/1 with 219/226 pen respectively are doing just fine.
MBT70 with 240 APCR which due to bad normalization is similar to 225-230 AP is also happily farming reds and I rarely fire prammo from them.
There is really only 1 tank at T10 that is frontally immune to 230 AP and that's the Badger. Maybe IS7 if it angles perfectly. Everything else has weakspots.

[surreal rivet]

How do you know the new Lt get the op tracks bruh show proof

[uneven narwhal]

The new branch is not getting the Yoh emergency track mechanism

[wide dawn]

from which news corner you got the info that the t100 lt line is getting the yoh's reserved tracks set mechanism?

[bronze osprey]

where'd ya get that idea of the tracks?! Like who because you best get a new informant.

[unique scaffold]

They also got reactive and super speed boost.

[surreal rivet]

And 90° of gun depression

[uneven narwhal]

Report to Player Support, not here

https://asia.wargaming.net/support/en/products/wotb/

[quick epoch]

So where should I report?

[gleaming apex]

thanh#4228 has been warned.

[distant river]

<@&481447501690568709> have some free nitro

[gleaming apex]

BoT#3703 was banned

[surreal rivet]

Shouldve clicked the link

[thorny quartz]

I would ask to check 60tp aim system, make many ghost shoots, I mean aim on target, focusing long and after no penetration, just nothing happens, why is this?

[winter heron]

High ping. It's not the game's fault, it's your connection to the server. Make sure you have a stable internet connection, and if you're 100% sure that's not the issue, use pingplotter to identify it.

[real oasis]

why not buffing e100 to balance new tier 10 tanks in the next update? because the tank its turret is problem and no mobility is enough for the tank itself tank easy to get penetrated by gold and tds at least e100 needs better turret armor

[distant river]

The E100 really doesn't need a buff, good armour, hp and a punchy gun makes it an above average heavy

[real oasis]

premiums were used for credits thats all but now... what can i say is BROKEN as hell

[sleek grove]

E100 is chad man, no need for bufs.

[earnest ingot]

Excuse me, how is this a Balanced matchmaking?
MM just gave them 4 top tier Heavies while we only get 2 and giving them a MT to scout while givinf us none?

[nimble zodiac]

Excuse me, how is this related to the channel?
📌📌📌

@sleek grove they were frustrated at the tier difference of the heavies

[sleek grove]

You had 4 heavies
They had 4 heavies too
What's your point again? @earnest ingot

[surreal rivet]

Skill issue players whenever they lose:

[unique scaffold]

@earnest ingot read the pinned messages

[thorny quartz]

@winter heron what I asked, nothing to do with ping, sry

[winter heron]

It has everything to do with latency. You should do your own research about the issue rather than just blaming the game immediately

[thorny quartz]

@winter heron lol read again what I was asked ok.?

[winter heron]

You asked about ghost shells, and why they were happening. Ghost shells happen due to latency on the path between you and the server. It has nothing to do with the 60TP gun/aiming. Ok? Now do you want to learn about the issue or just whine and feel sorry for yourself?

[remote oriole]

<@&481447501690568709> Phishing

[proven stag]

Youre a phish

[gleaming apex]

Sanny#0581 was banned

[grizzled marsh]

I don’t understand why the changes to WT Auf PZ IV, I just don’t get it, and I don’t get the changes to view range. Playing TD’s in the last meta’s hasn’t been awesome as it is, taking away the very few remaining advantages is silly at best, mean spirited at worst. Given this, what is the big brain idea going forward for the role of TD’s in the game? For instance, frontline brawlers seems out of the question considering meta changes to penetration and most brawling TD’s unable to survive front line. View range and camo seems to negate the stealthy nature of the long range sniper. So exactly how is it that the genius of WG expects TD’s to function and their role going forward?

[winter heron]

I don't think that this nerf is about TDs in general: it's just that the WT is a bit too good right now. Plus, there are plenty of good TDs, like the WZ113GFT, Obj 268, 263, etc. All three of those have excellent armor that is very effective, providing the player has a little bit of skill.

[twin egret]

It's an annoying tank and preforms better than its tier 10 counterpart tier for tier, its nerf is deserved.

[grizzled marsh]

That makes no sense, “too good”, considering it doesn’t even make top 20 best tier 9 for relative Win Rate for update 8.5 on blitzanalysiz: https://blitzanalysiz.com/update/8.5/tanks/9/. One can cherry pick statistics all day long, but again, relative to all other tanks in tier 9, It’s not a great performer. Fundamentally the problem isn’t with the Waffle, the problem is the relative weakness of TD’s in general. It’s been a LONG time since TD’s make up a proportionate ratio / presence in top relative WR charts compared to other tank classes. Change my mind?

[winter heron]

The reason for them not making top relative wr is because they're not supposed to be game-changing tanks. Their role is a support role, meaning that naturally should have less influence over the battlefield. Yes, TDs are relatively weak, but that's by design.

[real bison]

triple TD games are oppressive and campy, change my mind

[grizzled marsh]

So your suggesting that TD’s should not be competitive in terms of relative WR? Then one subscribes to the notion that TD’s should just languish in general in terms of relative performance compared to other available tank classes? That again makes no darn sense. Especially given the $$ and research cost / cost to purchase a TD. All things being equal, IE that TD’s should have a weak support role, then they should be discounted accordingly since its really not “fun” to play tanks that suffer bad relative WR compared to other options. This is all about the $$$$ after all. WG has made that clear.

[winter heron]

Yes, you're getting the idea. If the game were flooded with TDs, then it would suck the fun out of it, since they're meant to play a support role. To prevent this, there's a higher cost to getting them, and they're weaker than other classes.

Your point about WG making this about money makes no sense btw. They're a business. Live with it. It just sounds like you're getting really worked up about a video game, so now you're lashing out. Touch grass.

[neat crescent]

Is7 running enhanced armor frontally can't be penned by a Sheri not running Cali and that's 230 ap tho

[scenic stone]

Sheri has APCR for standard ammo not AP.
Pretty much every t10 MT and LT has APCR apart from Obj140 and WZ121.

[twilit crystal]

lol e100 would be so broke if there was no gold, HE SPAM GALORE

[unique scaffold]

Am I the only one who is completely okay with TD's not being effective?

[gleaming apex]

Pablito#9903 was banned

[nimble zodiac]

I agree, but like frontline TDs that are supposed to use their armor are fine, their high-risk high-reward playstyle is good for the game. For the other TDs, though, I want them to be scary, but laughable once they don't have teammates

[unique scaffold]

<@&481447501690568709>

[gleaming apex]

Obama Gaming#3490 was banned

[hoary sorrel]

Can u guys not ping the same guy multiple times

[nimble zodiac]

@hoary sorrel sorry, we want to let you guys know as quickly as possible, we can’t afford to check other channels if someone had it <3
I saw one ping 🧠🔥

[hoary sorrel]

It’s in the same channel

I understand if it’s different channels

[grizzled marsh]

Kind of like the game is flooded with heavy tanks in the current meta?

[winter heron]

No? Heavies play a determining role in the battle, as they're supposed to: so there are more of them. TDs should not, so there are fewer of them, they're harder to get, and they're less effective at determining the battle. That's the way it is

[grim sun]

Get good.

[sleek grove]

I really hope this is sarcasm.
If it's not, we'll, get good son.

[prisma jetty]

Where impenetrable turret while hulldown? Oh wait…

[leaden flare]

And I don't really get why you complain about a nerf of the most broken t9 TD
That tank has everything
Gun is godlike
Super consumables
Decent mobility
High dpm
10° of gun depression
High camo value
Good view range
A turret
And a provision negating it's only weakness

Sounds broken to me

[mental pasture]

Lmao, it'll get just one second slower to reload, WT won't suddenly become a horrible tank after this.

[unique scaffold]

<@&481447501690568709> nitro link

[gleaming apex]

I can't find user @slow canyon.

[twin egret]

What's wrong and why is your taskbar on the right

[carmine smelt]

The IS-3 needs a buff. It can’t compete with any tanks of the same tier at all unless it’s in hulldown, and even then you can’t do that because of it’s bad gun depression. This tank is a gigantic pain when grinding the IS-7 line, and i just don’t get why it’s so severely underpowered

And for the record, if you are going to buff something, start with the penetration. It needs premium ammo to penetrate EVERYTHING in its tier and above or below. And then you could go for the dispersion. You know how you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take? In the IS-3’s case, you even miss the shots you do take and it’s infuriating

[drowsy plaza]

It’s a heavium. Play it like that and you do fine.

[carmine smelt]

How do you play a heavium? Frontline, second line, or support?

[safe tundra]

Go with the mediums and use their dpm and ur hp to assist them

[versed tide]

Is3 is a fun tank that can preform well if you know how to position it

[cunning bronze]

Uhh, it has better pen than all is3 premium clones and is tied with 252u. Run cali or gitgud

[safe rapids]

Yes. IS-3 is just fine, I love it and to date it is the only tank I’ve played where I bought the legendary camo.
It’s a you problem, not the tank. And furthermore, tanks don’t need to have good gun depression to use their turret armor. Having bad gun depression forces you to look for new places on maps and use your brain. @carmine smelt

[carmine smelt]

Dunno about you guys, but im using the second gun, and this dispersion is horrible. Any heavy of the same tier has it better
(FYI, am i running calibrated and the penetration is in no way comparable to the 252U

[nimble zodiac]

Bruh run the BL-9 and then judge the gun -_-

[cunning bronze]

Lmao doesnt run top gun and asks for a buff

[minor minnow]

Unfortunate

[jagged crescent]

Incredible

[last nimbus]

Unfortunate

[nimble zodiac]

Incredibly unfortunate

[fluid topaz]

Titanically unfortunate

[safe rapids]

Monumentally unfortunate

[main tulip]

IS-3 is still kinda bad though, the hull armor is a joke with all the high pen tanks going into the game and the gun depression is often too little to utilize your strong turret

[split minnow]

But like, m10 panther buff when….. tank has been left in the dust for sooooo looong no legendary camo no pbr no buffs

[upbeat stratus]

Wtf

[orchid grove]

You don't need hull armor when you have great mobility, a great gun, and arguably the best turret in the game

[main tulip]

I found both the mobility and gun to be quite underwhelming 🤔

[frail silo]

mobility is good? it is only capped
and the gun is the best is clone gun with good penetration

[main tulip]

53TP has a better gun if you wanna count that
and WZ-112-2 has faster reload, more top speed, better hull armor, and an extra degree of gun depression

[empty nexus]

IS3 is Literally the easiest heavy to deal with at T8 no cap 😂

Hull armour is easy pen, poor mobility, poor accuracy. It really needs a buff tbh. There used to be a hatch you could penetrate above the gun on the old model if anyone remembers that lol

[surreal rivet]

Tf it has good mobility

[nimble zodiac]

Not the WZ-110? Also that wasn't a hatch it was just the turret roof (IS-4 mimics this on PC too)

[quasi axle]

💀

[empty nexus]

I guess the 110 aswell, but I hardly ever see it, and don’t own it either so I can’t really judge it. But it’s rarity hints at its awfulness

[lime torrent]

@latent shuttle learn to play, thx

[leaden flare]

Well one turret is better but that's t 22 and 2 tiers above is 3

[twin egret]

What would take third place
Or Fourth

[leaden flare]

Is 4 would be 3 I guess

[mental pasture]

Unless you're some kind of medium with a smaller pen

[azure mountain]

AT 2s traverse speed is soo damn slow its so hard to win a battle bc of that

[safe rapids]

The AT2 doesn’t need to turn. Just go straight ahead into the enemy and most tanks won’t be able to do much against you even Tier 6s.

Be smart though, don’t just yolo.

[distant river]

<@&481447501690568709> free nitro for new year

[gleaming apex]

xRafiX#9967 was banned

[uneven narwhal]

Way to start off the yeah huh

[quick lichen]

I’m debating whether to keep the bot an fv or rename to smasher

[wide dawn]

Smasher 😤

[uneven narwhal]

Lovely username Raik

[royal moon]

clown, you know its 380 alpha and 2.8k dpm only? and speed is just meh

[uneven narwhal]

I hope that's sarcastic
Oh wait no I just saw the username

[winter heron]

You're splitting hairs

[nimble zodiac]

Smasher has a faster reload so

[frosty oriole]

im not sure if this has been brought up before, but since 4202 is still completely unused, would buffing its gun depression to like 12-14 degrees do anything

[nimble zodiac]

You're insane.

[scarlet fjord]

Honestly it's quite easy to make the IS-3 decent and interesting just make it like the IS-8 a heavium with an incredible gun
Make the BL-9 fearsome again with all the new tanks being implemented it's previous impressive pen is average at best
I would say buff the gun handling make it a decently accurate tank with a little bit of premium pen and standard pen buff for the weaker players and u have an amazing heavium I haven't played it for ages so I'm not sure about the traverse If it's not decent they could touch it a bit

[winged barn]

Sometimes you just gotta shoot through the hull

especially if you are british

[stuck acorn]

to become IS-8 like it would need a turret armor nerf, mobility and gun tho would need huge buffs. Top speed buff to around 45 km/h, traverse buff, engine power buff and accuaracy buff to like 0.37 base

[scarlet fjord]

Nah u can leave the turret but sacrifice something else like some accuracy on the buffing or you could actually nerf the turret like you said but massively buff the on movement dispersion so u can snapshot would be fun to play ngl

[stuck acorn]

On the other hand, would it fit the line then? I just want to remind that this line leads to IS-7 which is kinda far from a heavium. It would be way more fun to play and it would stop being just worse Obj 252u tho. For me that would be a really good change, but we can forget about that since WG implemented their trash role system which already ruined few tanks and turned some others into copy paste garbage lol. They also rebalanced T8 few updates ago, so i don't think they will touch that again

@latent shuttle get good lol. IS-8 is perfectly balanced, while those 2 aren't

@scarlet fjord well it's something. Btw i also think that there are many lines that WG should really consider changing/rebuilding, because of playstyle changes in them. Writing up all the problems with that is a topic for a long message tho

[scarlet fjord]

it prepares u for the IS-8 which most ppl cant play at alll
even though its a phenomenal tank

[stuck acorn]

So let's quickly summarize the problem of lines not sharing same playstyle. It's all about wrong line building by wargaming. Some tanks obviously stand out of their lines and not fit them. It ruins overall learning progress through the line as obviously person that is used to play for example slugish fast reloading low alpha british AT tanks, won't know how to use 183 which isn't even close to that. So what lines need rework and what could be done to them? Here is the list.

First of all already mentioned 183 line. Seriously WG? This line probably is composed the worst in the entire game. You just make your way trough all that slow armored tanks based completly on DPM with no alpha what so ever just end up getting complete opposite of that. Tht's why WG kicked out 183 from tech tree in WoT PC and replaced it with badger. They already closed this way for themselves in this game tho by releasing badger as a collector. What can they do about that now? Well they basically have 1 way if they don't want to leave it as it is (even if they probably do). And this way is obviously searching for something else to replace the 183. Something like super tortoise.

Next up is the VK 72.01 K. What's the problem with this line? It's all about tanks from T8 to T10. First is VK 45 02 A, the front turreted vechicle with quite strong frointal armor, but really weak sides, low alpha gun and decent mobility. Next up we get the VK 45 02 B, rear turreted vechicle with really strong both, frontal and side armor, big alpha gun and average mobility - basically typical side scraper. And at the end we recieve the VK 72, again rear turreted vechicle with big alpha gun and strong frontal armor, but this time, sides recieved a huge weakspots on both sides which basically makes side scraping impossible. That does fit really well right? All tanks in the line have their own unique playstyle which isn't how it should be. (i'll try to think about some solution later as my messge is already too long)

[jagged crescent]

Too many word no read

[quasi axle]

true

[stuck acorn]

tldr
183 and vk 72 lines (there are many more but i told pnly abut these above) don't share same playstyles and should be reworked. IF you want details you can go trough that big chunk of words above

[midnight citrus]

Maus needs armour buff

[quick lichen]

Ok Josh

[surreal rivet]

Is 8 is definitely strong but it's not op nef wasn't needed

[sinful lichen]

it's really annoying how many premium tanks like the chimera is just so unbalanced. It's a freaking medium tank but IS-3 can't even penetrate it frontally. like bruh. you got a 122 mm gun that can't penetrate a medium tank. Sure stock IS-3 gun only has 175mm pen but a chimera can sit in front of you and take your shot. meanwhile it can reliably penetrate you.

[quasi axle]

imagine complaining about pen while playing a stock tank 🤐

[nimble zodiac]

While Chimera is definitely in need of a nerf (though it won't happen), using non-maxed tanks against it as an argument is a bad idea

[surreal rivet]

Lol

[sleek grove]

Yeah and yk what wot PC did?
They added badger instead of 183 and the vk72 has a 128mm gun instead.
But guess what, wg added the badger already, AS A PREMIUM

[frail silo]

and then the is3 facehugs you
and then you are dead
or it hides its hull and you can't penetrate it

@main tulip discussion wasn't about chimera though, and even then the chimera can't reverse fast enough. and IS3 is very low profile and it wins on HP anyway.

also calling PC innovative is mad kek, that thing is hulldown simulator. sadly blitz is heading that direction but it is nowhere near as bad as PC.
and also PC's devs are way greedier lol.

[main tulip]

I've never played the chimera, but it should have enough gun depression and reverse speed to get some shots into the Is-3's upper plate in a facehug situation.

On a side note, a "super tortoise" would be something I'd personally love to see @stuck acorn I think wot PC has done an amazing job with their tech tree changes to make their lines have similar play styles, but blitz devs are too greedy and lazy and want to release PC's innovations as collectors instead

[scarlet fjord]

you could argue low pen meds will struggle penning Chimera as they are close to 175 the stock IS-3 gun
Chimera is defo cracked needs nerfing which isnt happening
and no Face hugging on the IS-3 isnt op as most ppl think there are like 3 places u can hit at the top of the turret with at best 200mm protection which everyone can pen specially the very tall Chimera
it is a last resort sort of thing if u wiggle the turret u might get lucky and potentially bounce smt if not u just need to pray that the player is bad and doesnt know how to pen ur turret
the turret is op hull down at a certain distance but other than that u can pen IS-3 has many faults like T32 has probably a better turret and has the gun dep to work with it the IS-3 neither has the gun depression nor the turret strength that the T32 has so its not very good at hull down either its just a very very poor heavy now a days
we can easily fix this problem if we just buff the BL-9 and make it crazy strong of a gun nothing else is required

[main tulip]

I meant PC is innovative as in their devs actually put historically obscure tanks or ones that are mostly of their own creation into the game. Blitz does no such thing, putting in PC tech tree tanks as premiums, and most of their own creativity is in the form of reskinned tier 6s or overpowered Halloween tanks. You clearly did not get the meaning of my message

And it's actually the other way around with the PC meta trending closer to the blitz ones, with the nerfs to arty making them less of a presence on the battlefield and therefore a similar meta to the blitz one.

Also in what way are PC's devs greedier? I am not too knowledgeable about their monetization compared to blitz, but most of their egregiously overpowered tanks have been tech tree/reward tanks afaik

[frail silo]

PC meta is not trending closer to the blitz
because it has always been hulldown.
literally before blitz started shifting towards the same meta.
and the map design on PC is horrible with corridor maps and hulldown spots every 10cms(hyperbole warning).
and we are getting tanks PC doesn't even have yet. and i would say both are pretty much the same when it comes to handling premium and collector tanks.
PC is obviously more fleshed out since well, it is older. and certainly has a bigger team behind it. and an even bigger community.
blitz putting some pc tanks as premiums doesn't mean anything really.
also PC is literally flooded with premiums that they capitalize on and are most of the time out right better than techtree counterparts. it is the same practice but x10.
have you looked at their xmas event? i don't think it is some hidden fact or something. even PC players acknowledge how greedy the devs are.

[main tulip]

I wouldn't consider selling overpowered tanks for money to be the worst form of greediness because it's really the most basic form of making money. "Make a better product to make more money," it's simple.
What IS super egregious imo is the way blitz puts tech tree tier tanks from PC into the game as collectors. It's extremely lazy and I see it as damn near scamming. What's even worse is that by doing so, they remove one of their possibilities for creating a more balanced and fluid line.

Blitz did not show me that they had the capacity to introduce good original material that wasn't ripped from PC until the Ho-Ri and Vickers lines came along. So they've proven that they can do it, creating new tanks that aren't cartoon crap, but they're just too lazy and won't.

You might be right the blitz is objectively the better game, and I myself find blitz more fun than PC, but I do feel like the PC devs are trying harder than the blitz ones

[frail silo]

eh fair enough.
i don't mind either.

[scarlet fjord]

at least in blitz you dont have the problem
If you arent hull down and spotted for half a second 2 TD's and 3 auto loaders start ramming u with shells i hate that meta there

[waxen osprey]

Anyone have opinions if the kyros is overpowered

[empty nexus]

Is3 is pretty slow so you can just reverse

[scarlet fjord]

Yes IS-3 "iS vErY sLoW"

[stuck acorn]

same as i do. Yet there is quite an easy solution for this problem. Don't release tanks without weakspots of decent size at turrets (maybe except kran line because this line was meant to be like this) and decrease overall number of hulldown positions on maps. I mean, leave alone sand maps, they are meant to be hulldown festival, but for example removing some bunch of covers or lowering them down so you can't show only your turret from behind on himmelsdorf heavy side could be nice. Other thing is - decrease the pen of the tanks. After introducing of calibrated shells in 3.5 all 340 pen heavies got the TD pen. Decreasing that pen will automaticaly increase effectivenes of hull armor which is usually weaker than the turret and it will allow players to use it more efficient. Imo there should be no heavy tank with base gold pen over 320.

<@&481447501690568709> nitro link

@scarlet fjord There is nothing bad in nerfing pen of tanks like kran, IS-4, E5, T57, 50B, 113, 60Tp etc etc to level of 310-320. All meds except for sheri have 300 or less so that's fine. You can still reliably pen everything with 320 of pen and if that's not enough for you, you can always decrease your Dpm and use calibrated. This time tho you won't have cracked 370 pen, but more balanced 340.

I would also really like WG to bring back Gun rammer to 10% so it's a better alternative for cracked CS

[full token]

for a heavy it isnt

[scarlet fjord]

the problem is if u nerf pen ur buffing heavies
if u remove calibrated ur still buffing heavies
if u nerf heavy tank gold pen then its a different story
but its difficult to balance that cuz u cant let meds have more pen than heavies its very hard to fix this problem rn that WG made for themselves for not thinking things through well enough
but 374 HEAT pen on an IS-4 is cracked u ignore all armor almost
at least they listened to us EVENTUALLY and after a very very VERY long time they finally ended the IS-4 E5 + calibrated shells spam meta which was an extremely boring and a dumb way of keeping game balance

[sleek grove]

Yes they balanced high pen heavies with super hulldown tanks.
And yes, from now on, we can can tanks with virtually no turret weakspots, super hulldown tanks.

[stuck acorn]

For me no tank at T10 except for E3, kran and Badger should be impenetrable in hulldown. Everything else should have some weakspots that you can reliably hit. For example give IS-4 a roof weakpot, so when he doesn't use GD, you can pen it there

[scarlet fjord]

that somewhat fixes 1 problem and opens the door to several other problems
like how the impenetrable super hull down tanks are still heavy tanks
and how ur making very popular hull down tanks from before pointless like the IS-7 turret used to be renowned for its great protection now its slightly above average at best not saying the IS-7 is still not a crazy strong tank I'm just saying its no longer renowned for having an insane turret cuz of turrets like krans and 60TP's and M4 54's
their way of balancing is so stupid i cant understand why they open so many problems for themselves they dont think in the long run but how to fix something right now
having one of those things which was the kran in the past was somewhat bearable as its just 1 tank and u can just splash it with TD's constantly until u bleed it down and not let it play as big TD's can splash for a lot ngl it was a decent counter in pubs but now every new tank has an impenetrable turret its so stupid
hell i even wouldn't let the IS-4 turret be i would even nerf that i dont like turrets being too strong specially not on tanks like IS-4's
like a pike nose tank like an IS-7 would deserve a turret like that and its 6 degrees plus pike nose design will balance it out but still pennable ofc just very difficult to pen that would be a balancing factor to an extremely strong turret but they go ahead of that and give tanks GUN DEPRESSION and 0 weakspots

[jagged crescent]

IS-7 > IS-4 🤝

[sleek grove]

Is4 and kran have some turret weakspots, granted u may need some high Penn on heat.
Is4 can somewhat be penned on the turret thru the machine gun port, or exactly after the mantle piece ends and u have a small strip of pennable spot.
Kran has a weakspots just under the gun, once he looks at you or above, u can go thru, with some respectable pen ofc.

They are also kinda unreliable but sometimes work.

[scarlet fjord]

ofc they exist but all he has to do is shoot on most of your front with 374 HEAT while you shoot at 13 pixels
and the kran has an auto reloader

[spark hollow]

One mission is missing right? 108 points total

[prisma jetty]

1. Go to support, we can’t help.
2. Where is the tank balance here? I mean, do the crates have too little alpha? Not enough reload? Missions too slow for you?

[spark hollow]

I mean there is no general menu or support menu on discord, just asking if it is happening with me alone or with everyone?

[prisma jetty]

Again, don’t really see the balance issue? Also, wargaming website > WoTB > support

[stuck acorn]

well that's obvious, but it's far from reliable. AS kran line is known for tyheir turret and it's main point of this line, i would leave it alone. All other tanks tho should recieve some weakspots. IS-4 should recieve a roof weakspot that can be overmatched by guns with caliber of 120mm or more when it doesn't use all it's gun depression. 60TP could recieve some weakspot at gun mantlet like S conq, S conq itself could get coupola nerf, M4 54 should recieve turret cheeks, and concept could get side turret armor nerf, so it's pennable even at high angles

[unique scaffold]

I am no pro and too many players call me a nub because I will take it slow and sneak up on other players instead of rushing to my death

[prisma jetty]

Sometimes taking it too slow will lead to your team being farmed and dying, leaving you alone against the entire enemy team

[unique scaffold]

I am currently trying out the IS 4, I would say somewhere in the middle of front line and sniping🧐

[prisma jetty]

That’s a bit far back from where the IS-4 thrives. It’s really good in the frontline where the enemy has to react quickly to it

[unique scaffold]

problem is, that most team mates do not take advantage and go around you to attack while you have the enemy distracted☹️ and how can I disable slowmode, it is stupid for messaging

[full token]

That’s good right? You have armor and HP and distract enemies, and your teammates can do damage. If they’re going in front and your armor and hp arent getting much use, maybe you should’ve moved with them too, so you can help your teammates have someone to fall behind instead of taking the hits

[scarlet fjord]

if your team is too dumb to use you as a distraction then you become the sword and the shield
adapt or lose

[safe rapids]

So true the top speed is decent and the real kicker is the acceleration. It’s always my first choice for a tank I want to roll into position quickly before flanking around slower heavies.

[nimble zodiac]

Ah yes, AMX M4 mle 54 should receive turret cheeks 🤨

[unique scaffold]

that is the biggest problem , there is no time for a team to talk before a battle

[cursive schooner]

On the other hand, would you listen to the team? That’s the problem

Also in rating there’s about 40 sec to chat

[stuck acorn]

yes. It should be it's weakspot

[prisma jetty]

The weak spot is the entire side of the tank lmao

[tulip escarp]

Heavy Tanks need a frontal weak spot somewhere wether it be a hatch or gun port

[prisma jetty]

Oh no, anyways

[sleek grove]

WG : seems fine to me 🤷‍♂️

[scarlet fjord]

there's plenty of time only nobody listens or tries to activate their 3 brain cells

1$ for every MM on the weakspot they thought@sleek grove

[unique scaffold]

the observation ports and just below the turrent ring- a hard spot to hit

[tulip escarp]

Just saying in general

[shadow helm]

When will vickers get nerfed again

[uneven narwhal]

Although Vickers CR might need a nerf, a 3s Uprising clip does not provide the correct reason to do so

[hybrid ravine]

just aim gg ez

[split birch]

FV215b doesn't have any difference with conqueror and it's hp is even lower than IX tier tanks

[twin egret]

Tfw Conqueror has slightly better gun stats in terms of accuracy

[reef fable]

There is nothing wrong with Vickers, it's fairly balanced, it's the matter with people who do not know how to deal with them or people finding easy to play the tank.

[scarlet fjord]

why are they nerfing cent 7/1 is it op or smt?

[orchid grove]

They’re rebalancing it in line with their new (garbage) balance philosophy.

Less accuracy on the L7, more turret armor. Honestly, it’s a buff, since the best gun on the tank is really the 20 pounder (seriously, try it, 3.5k DPM on a tier IX med is actually really awesome)

[frail silo]

but no hesh
monke want hesh

[scarlet fjord]

Oh i didn't notice the armor buff eeeh idk it does help with the armor i just got the tank and I'm not so sure of whats going to happen
nah i gotta play the HESH gun
i love HESH i spam 183 and Conway for the HESH ammo pretty sure its still viable maybe even better i will find out at 100% crew
yeah though their new balance idea is dumb i got very angry at the IS-8 changes it did not need gun handling buffs and the top speed nerf looks small but trust me it influences the tank greatly
i would of agreed with a power to weight ratio buff but a top speed nerf but this dispersion buff is almost useless on it as it hits most of my shots
it will only help with long distance shots or extremely powerful hull down tanks which i will go through anyway with my 340 HEAT pen and i wont fight hull down super heavies with a heavium thats just dumb so useless anyway

[jagged raptor]

in my T55A i have been shot 7 times total by a gun larger than 120mm and 4 times, i was ammoracked despite having a very healthy ammo rack
ohh yeah balanced

[hearty steeple]

If you keep getting racked, run better equipment layout and use protective kit

[scarlet fjord]

wait so
IS-8 has
same dispersion as cent 7/1 next update
but IS-8 has 420 alpha and cent has 440 with (HESH)
IS-8 has 260 AP
cent has APCR and its like 255
IS-8 has more armor more hit points and 340 HEAT
what is the point of cent 7/1?
the advantages i see are so miniscule compared to what you get from an IS-8
or am i missing smt

[quasi axle]

.

[dusty vine]

Like, c’mon wg… 268mm pen in a tier 8?? Even preforms well in tier 9 or even tier 10. Every tank is gonna be evaporated by the ISU 152. How can wg allow such tanks?? Work harder on the balances instead of OP halloween tanks. You’ve got work to do!
(Idk if im right or wrong…… my opinion is mine. Yours is yours. Simple. Quick maths!)

[distant river]

You get gun depression and dpm with HESH, which is pretty much what the 7/1 has always been about. A flexible platform for HESHing anything in your path.

[uneven narwhal]

Because the gun is the only good thing about the ISU

[stuck acorn]

ISU has nothing good about it except for the gun. It's far from OP

[jagged raptor]

already do :/

[scarlet fjord]

that is true you practically get double the degrees and the DPM is significantly higher if you pen the HESH and i see your point as i value the firepower of a 183 having 4k DPM with its HESH specially if u slam the adrenaline
but to me the troll hull armor of the IS-8
which generally its playstyle involves u getting hit in the side if u make mistakes and its TD level of pen for a tier 9 ofc and just 420 alpha and decent turret
also the ability to keep up with meds to a degree
if you get it rolling and bowling to me makes the cent a bit outclassed tbh
the IS-8 is just so difficult to get rid of if you are in a tier 9 med as it can pen u almost everywhere even with AP let alone the 340 HEAT and u need gold and a bit of aiming
to shoot it for almost half the alpha cuz gold rounds have low alpha i could be wrong as i dont have cent 7/1 at 100% crew yet but on paper it looks like this to me

[sharp saddle]

Well yes, it gets some really good values on its gun.
I’ve been playing the ISU often recently, and it sacrifices a lot of things to have that in the first place.

As with many other tier 8 TDs, it has a small HP pool and can’t take many hits.
Also, you don’t really have armour. You can troll the occasional shell with the mantlet, but it’s not reliable.

It’s a turretless TD that is vulnerable to being flanked around, or it can just be difficult and awkward at times to get your gun pointed at an enemy.

If you manage to get your gun on an enemy, the gun handling isn’t amazing. It’s common to get trolled by it and miss shots because of it.

[gleaming apex]

ham#8930 has been warned.

Silentwolf#1225 has been warned.

[dusty vine]

Thats alot of damage

[jagged crescent]

Who?

[unique scaffold]

@lime torrent that has nothing to do with game balance.

[lime torrent]

Well its a little bit, balance mm so i dont get dropped with 43wr people

[unique scaffold]

Read the pinned messages. This isn’t a channel for players to whine about other players.

That also has nothing to do with game balance.

[scarlet fjord]

yeah its a place for players to whine about the company's poor decision making
not like it does anything but it helps you have a release :D

[winter heron]

Yeah, you're making this community for toxic than it already is. Proud of yourself?

[mental pasture]

Since when stating why WG made a horrible decision in therms of balance is toxicity? It doesn't make sense at all.
If I state "Obj 268v4 WILL be game breaking and will be the fate of tier X and IX if not nerfed" it doesn't make me toxic, just another one saying the obvious

[winter heron]

You just said that the discord is a "place to whine", and that you know it doesn't do anything, it's just to "have a release". You're upsetting people just to feel better about yourself. That's toxic. If you really want to have a "release" there are ways to do that that don't involve being detrimental to a community.

[mental pasture]

Regardless of your comment, "releasing" is everything what people do in channels meant to discuss balance of a game.
Person A whine about Tank X
Person B says "But Tank X is balanced, no needing to nerf/buff"
And both start an endless discussion about if Tank X deserves a change. More people comes to the discussion. More people whine about Tank X. It becomes famous as a really bad/OP tank. It gets changed. That's how we've "removed" the missiles.

Well, Vickers Light exists for a reason @ember arrow

[ember arrow]

I think sheri need 105mm..
It's not nuff or buff

[nimble zodiac]

Releasing… my opinion?

[remote oriole]

Basically venting

[latent crane]

even opened several boxes not a 1

[mental pasture]

Welcome to "Gambling is bad" world!

[scarlet fjord]

grow up lmao

[daring stone]

Hey .wasn't uprising only till 2nd Jan ..why can I still play the uprising

[crisp plinth]

WG please fix server, also give us some Gift as apologize! you made us lost win rate and chances to get lights

[teal palm]

Eh, you get used to it

[uneven narwhal]

WG did nothing to make you lose your WR and the servers are completely fine

[real bison]

they can’t unfortunately

[unique scaffold]

Mm broken again

[royal moon]

pls unnerf 1b alpha to 400 and dpm to 3000 @Developers, the gun hits like a girl, also gib pc version side armor of 120mm, unfair in wotb and @prisma jetty stupi*, the 110mm exp7 gun were supposed to be more advanced than 120mm of other nations. Lastly, there need to be a tier 10 tank that rule over all tanks. Tier 10 collectors are supposed to be superior to normal tanks @distant river stupi*, how is 1b overpowered??? e3 better armor, 60tp better alpha, is7 better speed, 113 better dpm

[uneven narwhal]

"gun hits like a girl"

You're crying like one :P

[candid steeple]

good lies by WG. They release balanced premiums and then after a month or 2 they buff them. Who would have guessed that WG wouldn't o that.

[prisma jetty]

Oh no, 20 less damage, what ever are we going to do. It doesn’t really affect the tank that much, as 20 less alpha doesn’t really lead to a whole lot of difference in damage compared to a 120/122mm gun

Just because it’s supposed to be better doesn’t mean that it is. That’s also in real life, this is a game. Also, the tank already rules over any other hull down tank, and it can bully meds. There is no reason for a buff.

[gleaming apex]

EpicDoge#4463 has been warned.

[distant river]

Tier 10 collectors are supposed to be superior to normal tanks"

Asks for buff for an already op tank

[royal moon]

@distant river stupi*, how is 1b overpowered??? e3 better armor, 60tp better alpha, is7 better speed, 113 better dpm, 121 better aim time, maus more hp, better side armor, is4 invicible turret and 340 heat pen, e6 better initial speed and turret tranverse, chieftain better dpm and apcr prem round, e100 higher heat pen and alpha, side armor. All those poor dudes crying 1b op out of keen jerk reaction and jealousy, sign.

[full token]

His own words were that it is a 'perfectly balanced tank' but now he wants that to be buffed

[prisma jetty]

E3 is slower, 60TP is slower, IS-7 is slower, 113 doesn’t have an impenetrable turret, 121 doesn’t have the HP or armor, IS-4 turret isn’t impenetrable, and it’s also slower, E6 doesn’t have the same turret

[uneven narwhal]

I like how he takes only parts of tanks that are better than the C1B as if all those aspects are stashed in some other tank

[remote oriole]

Excuse me, what?

There needs to be one tank to rule them all? I cannot express how baffled I am by the sheer nonsense that went into this post. Is this The Lord Of The Blitz or what? What is even the logic behind that? Do you want tier ten to devolve into being a battle of Concept 1Bs like tier seven is a battle of Annihilators?!

Also, in what world do tier ten collectors need to be better than normal tanks? Seriously?! Are you a p2w advocate or what is the motivation behind this equally as nonsensical statement? Do you want to drive the game against a wall called „alienating all free to players“?

Just what did I just read. Seriously. What.

[full token]

they cant seem to understand anything else being said

[distant river]

Literally owns tank
"Wow you must be jealous"
200iq.jpg

[royal moon]

non 1b owners shouldn't even talk about the tank esp. those keen jerk reactionaries "omg it is new it must be op"

[uneven narwhal]

Apparently 1B owners shouldn't either....

[distant river]

Why not? It's easy to tell from the stats it's broken, and it's even easier to tell when playing it that it's broken.

@uneven narwhal That made me laugh out loud thank you for saving my opinion of this channel 😂

[prisma jetty]

Mate, the 1B is broken. Just because you can’t play the tank doesn’t make it underpowered.

[royal moon]

Dude i am doing 4-5k+ dmg in it occasionally😂 but i play even better with 60tp and m60. Incoming wotb tomato/potato salt alert😅

[leaden flare]

We have already proven that Ur good 60tp avg isn't even that good I mean what was it again 2,7k or smth that's not that great
Concept is pretty OP and yes I own one myself
The potato would on that case be you because I'm already quite certain quite a few people you're currently talking to are better than you

You claim to be a good player yet you haven't shared your ign so we can actually see how good you are
I don't mind sharing mine if it's wanted

[prisma jetty]

I mean, even noobs get lucky… doesn’t make you a good player.

[sleek grove]

What is this circus here, who thinks C1b isn't op plays it wrong, meaning he's bad

[royal moon]

i don't like how normal tanks can challenge same tier premium/collectors, bring back t7/t8 collector/premium meta

[hearty steeple]

He is clearly a troll. Or delusional. It is so clear in their first statement. And not the first time trying to claim c1b is worse than it actually is

[leaden flare]

Trolling would be against the server rules hmmmmm I'd appreciate some action against that

[sleek grove]

@royal moon so you say u do better in 60tp, but u have 2700 avg dmg in 60tp, which is above average, so ur doing under 2700 in C1b, means u aint that great of a player.

[royal moon]

lol not i mean i am more consistent in 60tp and m60

[uneven narwhal]

C1B not broken!!!11!

[sleek grove]

where broken???

[unique scaffold]

Flawed data. The tank was recently in test and played by good players. Upon release only the lucky or those who spent massive money got it. Those who spend massively once again tend to be good players.

I'm not saying the tank is or isn't OP. I'm saying using your screenshot as evidence is flawed and misleading.

[gleaming apex]

Warning logged for sova#0001. I couldn't DM them.

[uneven narwhal]

Agreed, should've thought of that
The tank is broken but not for the reasons provided by me

[unique scaffold]

As someone who has been playing my 1B more than I probably should I will say that I've noticed they can be HE splashed on the turret sides even when facing you hull down. I've received a fair amount of courteous feedback from other 1B drivers who did not appreciate me demonstrating it upon their tank.

[gleaming apex]

Dokutah#7388 has been warned.

[sleek grove]

im 10000% curious about his stats at this moment , theres nothing to be ashamed when he makes such bold statements

[uneven narwhal]

Although I believe it's not about his stats
Since it's established that he has the C1B, he will do anything to justify the tank, looking for its downsides and make unsuitable comparisons
I see no point to continue this honestly, we are not going to budge his statement in any way

[unique scaffold]

@royal moon if you have to resort to name calling you need to think your point out better

[royal moon]

i dont know why having 1b immediately invalidates my points

[unique pond]

hi

[sleek grove]

having 1b doesnt make u imune to critiques, especially when ur wrong.
finding a tank that a big chunk of players think its OP, not op, its quite a bold and wrong assumption

[unique scaffold]

Implying that you speak for the majority of players is also inherently wrong.

I’m not going to take sides on either part of this debate but at this point all parties involved need to work on their debating skills.

[remote oriole]

I speak for the Lux.

Lux thinks that the assumption that premium/ collector tanks should be better than tech tree is inherently wrong and a save route to destroy the game.

I think Lux is right.

[uneven narwhal]

I agree with Lux

[sleek grove]

i speak for C1P, i agree with Lux.
every player who wants premium/collector tanks to be better than tech tree counterparts just want to fill in their skill issue gap, by having the false feeling of being better than f2p or ppl who enjoy tech tree tanks more.

[hearty steeple]

I speak for the sake of balance.

Just because a tank isn't the absolute best in every single metric doesn't make it immune from being op. What concept 1b does is, have just about everything. Excellent hulldown capabilities, which is what the current meta demands. It has the worst alpha but it does have amazing gun handling and above avg dpm. And it has the mobility to position itself to exploit. It is not one stat that comes into play, it is how all of these combine with each other.

[uneven narwhal]

I speak for Parallax

I think this chat is complete :pepega:
I suggest moving on to a different topic
50TP Prototype
Enough said

[sleek grove]

sold it for 5k gold, best investment , had a couple of games, interesting , but road to t10 premium is chad

[fickle light]

Buff t34/100 top gun, either handling or reload time

[orchid grove]

<@&481447501690568709> want a new year’s gift?^ (edit-nvm)

[brave dragon]

😄

[prime crypt]

I think the light bulb eff should go off immediately when spotted to avoid being one shot by a god TD...or the whole enemy team💡. just my opinion

[sleek grove]

that will close the skill issue gap, good players will know when they are spotted before the bulb shows, practice makes perfect, cant have everything easy

[remote oriole]

For the sake of those players who use the vision mechanics there should be a small period of time when they can reap the fruits of their labour

[wide dawn]

Just don't rely solely on the commander's sixth sense, use your own as well it's not that hard

[dire cradle]

I think the bulb delay is a good game play compromise

[sleek grove]

also 3 seconds is a lot of time to realise ur are spotted

[prisma jetty]

I speak for STA-1 is good

50TP prototyp is actually broken, no reason it should stay as is

[mental pasture]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/594610900154187806/927975546258882600/unknown.png?width=832&height=468
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/594610900154187806/927975858776473620/unknown.png

Most armored TD that I ever have seen, even the floor of all red

[sleek grove]

yeah it will break t10 meta without a doubt
imagine c1b and v4 all together

[hearty steeple]

You turnaround and go to the other flank and hope they don't follow you

[safe rapids]

No. Gun is fine.

[versed tide]

new tourney strats will be 7 v4s

[empty nexus]

I’m far more concerned about V4 than Concept. It’s literally insane, atleast concept is pretty meh when not hulldown, but this thing… my god.

Concept is a weird tank because it’s broken when hulldown , but Below average when not hull down(weak LP, weak Sides, weak Upper plate aswell)

[versed tide]

concept sucks at brawling and fighting under pressure

[distant river]

I haven't seen enough of the V4 to make a proper opinion about it, but I have noticed how weak the upper sides get when it comes in at even a small angle. It's extremely strong frontally but for a turretless TD it may be extraordinarily vulnerable when peeking, which might lead to another issue of it being a tank that excels at surviving sitting in the corner all game

[empty nexus]

361 mm is impenetrable for most gold… let alone standard, Only kran or IS4 HEAT can pen alongside TD HEAT.

Yeah but just stand still and you can’t be penned, it’s dummy proof. Hatch is tiny aswell. It’s OP AF, Everytime I face it it breaks my team, and it’s such a big pain to deal with because you can’t pen anything

[remote oriole]

Whenever I think that I am bad at my job I look at Wargaming balancing and instantly feel better

[distant river]

When the facts don't match your opinions but the monkey and thumbs down reactions agree with anything you say :/

Obviously it does aren't you convinced?

[uneven narwhal]

I like how Dokutah reacts with Monkey, a thumbs down, and a poop emote as if that strengthens their argument

[full token]

Does he even want to be taken seriously

[mental pasture]

I may be lazy, bastard, 10kg overweight and with all of the downsides that I can think of, but at least I don't work on WG's balance team

[winged barn]

that's the joke

[sleek grove]

At least they can balance maps, to some extent

[gleaming apex]

Warning logged for RifTigYh#4350. I couldn't DM them.

[prisma jetty]

Not just Kran and IS-4, but also 113, 60TP, E100, VK 72, E5, T57, T95E6, and Yoh with the 105

[leaden flare]

Im playing all but the clippers from that list without cs so yeah
A tank shouldn't force you to be in need of even more insane pen then the base 340 or 334 or 330

[distant river]

That is when fighting a TD made totally for frontal combat, from the front. Anything remotely round the sides will butter it with that pen, in fact it barely needs 15° of angle to be penned by med standard ammo. I think it'll end up a lot like the VK72 dependent on how good it's gun turns out to be in the final version.

[reef fable]

Always note, splash HE when you can't pen an opponent. Especially if you have a big gun.

[modest musk]

i think FV 215 183mm TD should really get an accuracy buff
i understand that the gun needs a flaw, but the dispersion is just inacceptible
the average winrate on this tank is, unsurprisingly, low... maybe buff it

[prisma jetty]

Ummmm which FV are we talking about here? There’s a lot of FV’s.

[leaden flare]

i just dont have much faith in WG anymore when it comes to balancing decisions
i find concerning when a tank just doesnt have any frontal weakspot and has to be faught from flanks only
espacially if its a fairly mobile one and flanks arent too hard to protect

[sleek grove]

The tank pays with bad mobility, no armor, virtually no camo, bad gun characteristics , all of those for the massive damage potential, that can turn the games fate in good hands

[real bison]

ah yes 0.367 with calibrated gun very inaccurate

[twin egret]

Tank's already toxic, it doesn't need a buff

[surreal rivet]

That's literally one of the factors balancing it

[twin egret]

Just flank

[sleek grove]

U can't say just flank, ur not in a 1v1.
Also having a tank that can't be penned frontally, even with prammo, is a big problem.
Remember it's a 7v7, not 1v1,flanking sometimes isn't possible.

[nimble zodiac]

Why does everyone ignore the existence of the cupola?

[real bison]

same reason why people ignore the tiny hatch on the E3

they’re too gripped with the fear of seeing an entirely red tank that can do massive damage

[twin egret]

You can pen the tiny hatch with HESH :troll:

[surreal rivet]

But it's hard to pen it thi

[nimble zodiac]

Irrational Fear #1: Taking 'seeing red' too literally
Irrational Fear #2: Assuming 690 is massive

[remote oriole]

Are we talking about the same Luchs? The light tank that turns like a heavy?

[nimble zodiac]

Yeah but when you combine 180 clip alpha with best DPM in tier

[remote oriole]

It may have the best dpm (didn‘t check), but not by far. Especially because of the low turning speed it will have difficulties making evasive runs so it should be relatively bearable

[nimble zodiac]

A Luchs... EVADING?!
It strikes fear into any clueless player who loses 1/3 of their HP all within a second! There's no running from it unless the driver has fear themselves!

[remote oriole]

It seems like I don‘t have the Luchs mentality

[rare sleet]

Luchs ain't no match tier for tier like the T-46 underrated top dog of tier 3. T-46 is out here swinging https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/684802354436243531/928097360410722396/Screenshot_153.png?width=446&height=467

[nimble zodiac]

That's because real OG good players use T-46
T-46 struggles a lot because of the gun's lack of reliability

[main tulip]

I used to love the luchs before the nerfs to low tier

[nimble zodiac]

I still love it ._.

[empty nexus]

With gold you can Pen VK’s LP, with Obj you can’t, EVEN when it’s facing up!!!!

@prisma jetty that’s when running Cali tho, and I only Run Cali on Kran and autoloaders. On other heavies I run rammer

[nimble zodiac]

You see, the V4 can only really engage one target at a time (or a few enemies form a slim angle), and still has a cupola weakspot as well as horrid DPM.

It's a very situational tank

[leaden flare]

The cupola from what I've seen is more troll then safe and not that big
The dpm is good enough with 2,5k you can work or else some tanks would be worse than they are (VK 72, Kran etc)
And finding spots where you only show your front really isn't that hard imo

[sleek grove]

the cupola is smaller and harder to hit.
and even if u were to hit , its a strong armor part, so penning is even more RNG based.
every time i had one in my battle, it just decimated the opposing team. rushing and firing.
the only way to really counter it is to have a focused team that does its job, which is a rare sight, its more likely to win 100k gold from a crate than having a reliable team

[empty nexus]

Sad but true 😂

It’s so rare that an ally cooperates extremely well and helps effectively in the battle, (1 In 50 battles) that when it does happen it really makes my day lol.

[nimble zodiac]

Oh no! An incentive to play better!

[empty nexus]

It’s not an incentive for most players that don’t take this game seriously, they’ll continue to play the same, but the opponent will be OP, and that is not good

[sleek grove]

tbf, i wouldnt have minded V4 to be a tech tree replacing regular 268, that would push WG to nerf it , because more players will get it.
but it will stay as such bc it brings them money

@mental pastureppl who usually say stuff like "just flank" are the ones who push at the start of the battlle in the worst spot, die, and they spend the rest of the battles throwing words

[mental pasture]

I suppose you didn't see the other 2 lovely figures behind this totally balanced v4

But I'd have to run away from the v4 first

[twin egret]

Flank harder

[uneven narwhal]

That's a one way express ticket to the garage

[empty nexus]

Man people say “flank”, but they forget the V4 has allies, and as it’s the one in front, you can’t flank without having to deal with its allies

[stuck acorn]

Tbh i don't find this tank extremely OP, still i find it really unbalanced tho. It is extremely situational and your effectivenes fully depends on what enemy you face. It will be extremely broken against low pen heavies and meds, but completly useless against other TDs or 340 heavies.

That's type of tank i consider as most stupid. It's extremely annoying for those enemies that can do nothing about it, but it's not fun and good to play as well as there are some enemies that you can do nothing about.

All this tank does is forcing others to play tanks with stupid pen if they want to fight it in any way and promoting stale and boring gameplay as with something like this in front of you, you will probably have no way to act agressively.

My idea is: strenghten the supersturcture even more, give it some bonus armor on the sides so it won't get penned by everything even at slight angle, but instead give it proper weakspot on the lower plate and slower traverse

[mental pasture]

But that'd make just another T110E3 that is actually fast enough to hunt meds

Fair enough

[stuck acorn]

not really. This tank have way worse gun than E3 and way worse gun depression than E3. It will be way harder to hide LFP on this tank as you can't as effectively hulldown. It also haas pretty slow traverse so it's not that agile to go after meds easily

[sleek grove]

hide the LFP, like the one that is completely unpenetrable by any means?
id sure love to hide that
also 33 degrees of traverse seems like slow to you?
zamn.
45km forward and 20 backwards is slow for a heavily armored TD?
10 degrees of gun arc with 5 degrees of gun dep is not mobile? for a rear turret tank isnt.
it has 2.9k dpm with rammer and standard ammo. is that not a lot???

[stuck acorn]

bruh read what was written above. We are talking about what this tank would be after little rebalance of armor

@distant river ofc it won't, as that's the worst thing they can do. I absolutely hate tanks that are broken against some enemies, but totally useless against others. I don't think i am only one who thinks about it like that

[distant river]

Also where did 33° traverse come from lol

@stuck acorn I don't think it will be that broken against low pen tanks, just damn annoying but I do agree that from what I've seen it looks to be very obnoxious. I think WG has tried to introduce a new type of playstyle with this tank and I don't think it's going to work out well.

[sleek grove]

im looking on blitz hangar to see the stats, it has 35 on hard terrain with improved traverse equip, big fuel and the turning skills on 7

[distant river]

Most terrain on maps is medium so that's the most important stat to look at, and it's literally 2° faster than the E3 and nobody thinks the E3 is fast at traversing. Also it's best to use base stats otherwise they are harder to compare, it's like saying the 4202 has 6692dpm when that's talking about it with HESH, adrenaline, rammer and all crew skills active and maxed.

[mental pasture]

Well, I think that E3 turns nice if you're using the engine boost

[distant river]

Then it gets 51/45/33° which is significantly more than 33 on hard ground 🤷‍♀️

[unique scaffold]

In my opinion, I think Tiger II's armor should be nerfed a bit, make the lower hull penetrable because it's genuinely hard to penetrate a Tiger II's armor, and in tournaments it's very annoying to face 2 Tiger II's in a 2v2 tournament.

[remote oriole]

<@&481447501690568709> phishing

[brave dragon]

Dyno not doing its thing, will cruise all channels, thanks

[modest musk]

0.55 with new crew and without upgrades LOL

[candid steeple]

Jeez WG is so off the charts with overstating meds. When battle is so close and you see what is left. You always want too see only tds or heavies left. When everyone is on low hp and especially when you are a heavy if you see medium or light still alive it's such a pain. You don't even have will to play game anymore. WG be like hey people are crying about mediums and lights. tanks requer little skill so lets buff them so they don't requer skill. All buff dpm and turret armor together with OP mobility and spotting. No biggy. Now dumb people can play mediums and lights front lining hull down with their rock paper scissors system that WG is forcing making them easy to play. Tbh I hate heavy tank hp buffs. Not because it made heavies 1 shot tankier but because it gave WG excuse to buff the hell out all of the mediums. What is the meaning of weak spots anymore? Meds also got goo gold pen. Good enough to pen heavies and together with that now overstated dpm and accuracy to just top it off. Turrets so overbuffed that they got weak spots but who is going to hit that as heavy. No dumb medium will just sit still and let you aim. they move constantly and when you press a button only lord rng can help you pen. WG honestly needs to do something about mediums an lights. I wont talk about Sheridan going full speed and hitting each shot. That's balanced with hovitzer gun that slaps you. 10 degree gun depression and small turret. If heavy side is kept and med side collapses because that always happens especially with everyone now having 5+ degree of gun depression in tier X and dpm through the roof. How can it not be that medium flanks collapse. better wr on meidum side usually wins. OP bias on half of the map where if you don't have good medium you lose. Good that WG is still buffing mediums. Honestly medium and light drivers are the same thing as adc players in league. They only vine at their role even though it's the strongest one and WG is smart enough to buff it after each pach