tank-balance-discussion

[ancient crypt]

Did he really scroll up THAT FAR in a Discord Channel as active as this one just to see your Stats? Thats sus AF IMO

[elfin wing]

You can search stuff you know...

[frail silo]

that is rich coming from you, you have 200dmg more on your average and you have twice the battles.
your WN8 is lower than mine on both 30days and career, same as your WR.
and you have 7k more battles.
give me a break dude and stick to yourself lol.
oh wait your WR is better than mine in 30days my bad.

[ancient crypt]

Oh I know, still odd that you went that far up(unless the dude you searched for is very inactive for this Channel)

Stat-checking randoms in Blitz can be funny, Stat-Shaming on the other hand is what some people would call "cringe"

[sleek grove]

filter by pictures, ez , its pretty easy to do it if u have common sense

[elfin wing]

If everyone here added their IGN's to their names, we dont need to do research as well. You can stat-shame me whenever you want :)

(second part of my message is neither sarcastic nor egoist. I have had good stats back in time, after 2 years of inactivity i am no longer "quite good" and tbh dont care at all. Stat-shaming is not ok in general, if you do that to me, i wont care. Thats all.)

[frail silo]

he is just the typical full of salt blitz player.
it doesn't really matter anyway

[quartz wasp]

you have nothing to be ashamed of, really.
all @frail silo trying to say is that chim can outtrade a cent 5/1. he is being civil and tried to make a sound argument.
no need to be sarcastic and hostile

[sleek grove]

saying it can outtrade a 5/1 doesnt make it better, also a good player takes others opinions without getting defensive and a good player doesnt say he is good enough and he doesnt need any tips on how to play.

[elfin wing]

Well, to be clear i didnt do stat-shaming and i wont do that. I just said comparing tanks with just using their alphas are wrong. They have different playstyles (comparing apples to oranges). So i was just talking about roles of those vehicles.

[drowsy plaza]

Chimera is broken. https://blitzanalysiz.com/update/8.4/

You can’t argue the fact is has ridiculous stats regardless of the skills of the players playing it.

[frail silo]

read the entire argument, i didn't just say "chimera better than 5/1 because alpha lol".
i took godium opinion, but i misunderstood some part of it and then it was fine. you would know that if you read the entire discussion.
and why wouldn't i say i am good enough when someone comes at me with basically "when will you learn lol, get gud."
get over yourself.

[quartz wasp]

was about to send a stats for t8 tanks from blitzstars, but yeah, what he said

[distant river]

Blitzanalysiz >>>> blitzstars

Calling other people bad to try prove a point <<<< actually having a point

[elfin wing]

It is quite easy to use Chimera, i agree on that. Against average and below players it has a huge advantage thanks to its alpha for sure (hence can kill enemies one by one sooo easily) but still i don't think "oh now we lost" when i see a chimera in enemy team (or dont say "yes, it is an absolute win" when i see one in my team). It will be probably my first target and that shows the capabilities of that tank (so i dont say it is weak or average) yet i still think it is neither OP nor broken. (btw i dont think that thing really needs a reactive armor, it is quite annoying)

Yes it has @fallow eagle

[fallow eagle]

Does vk90 have reticle calibration?
I saw one in battle and I thought it was the same logo but not for sure
@elfin wing thx for clarifying

[queen summit]

why does wg think buffing some tanks is a good idea, the Caernavon is way too strong

[queen summit]

yes lets nerf the at15 yet buff the cae... because of ONE SERVER that doesnt know premium ammo is a thing;
and only nerf the fv301 by a literal ONE AP pen, while buffing the vicker CR

oh wait dont believe me? how about the shark and tiger buff, or the su101 nerf. THE LIST GOES ON

[regal grove]

your point?

[sleek grove]

Useless premium buffs and useless nerfs in this update

[hearty steeple]

Makes sense, they definitely nerfed the reload on the drac but i can't remember if they dispersion or clip reload on Helsing

[unique scaffold]

Gonna need to see evidence of that. As far as I know they never directly nerfed the Dracula.

[sudden granite]

I remember it having the same reload of the cdc to which they nerfed it by 1 sec
Will look up some old yt vid for ya
The nerf is smaller than I thought I remembered but still

https://youtu.be/RGhJmUsOSVE
The vid shows 6.1s of reload
The fastest reload I can get now is 6.3s

[unique scaffold]

@sudden granite can't watch that right now but is it possible that it was recorded back in the days of the the 10% rammer before 3.8?

[sleek grove]

It is 100% from the time when rammer was 10%

[distant river]

Here's one of Martin's vids with 10% rammer and 6 sec reload
https://youtu.be/J0Wc6kSStSw

[jaunty prairie]

Will the devs please buff FV215B, just un-nerf it there was no need for the reload speed to increase

[unique scaffold]

I strongly suspect that you folks are posting stuff from when we had useful rammer before the atrocity that was 3.8 happened. God I still despise that stupid update with a passion. In my opinion one of the worst moves that game ever took.

[jagged crescent]

the 215b deserves a buff imo. Since WG nerfed it's abilities as heavium, which was more or less it's primary strength, they might as well make it serve as a better heavy now with either increased HP or a stronger side armor profile.

[wicked sluice]

I would really like a combination of Equipment 2.0 and the Extra provisions and Stuff,would be really awesome and balance alot of Tanks. Ut also would greatly Influence the playstyles of players :)

[unique scaffold]

@wicked sluice I would like everything about the new equipment removed. I would like the old three slot system with tank specific equipment. I still think it is absurd that you can put a vertical stabilizer on a tier 2 tank.

[wicked sluice]

Yeah thats what i mean,but with more varity,as example the turbo etc in combination with the current extra consumables that some tanks have but others dont. I think that would greatly improve gameplay,especially in tournaments as u can run many different Setups

[main tulip]

@unique scaffold what was 3.8 again?

Waiting for slowmode 😠

[drowsy plaza]

Terrible

[unique scaffold]

The change from a 3 slot equipment system to the current 9 slot. It also brought us a new currency called spare parts as well as timers. Players who had garages of fully equipped tanks before 3.8 were faced with only being able to fully equip about 1/3 of their garage after 3.8. To add insult to injury folks with large garages were literally looking at years to get all of their tanks fully equipped again. It screwed over players and screwed up game balance. In my opinion we are still dealing with damage to game balance that was caused by 3.8 today.

Not to mention the large number of veteran players that the change alienated and drove away from the game.

[main tulip]

Oh yeah that update was terrible, I definitely prefer the original equipment system.
Calibrated shells was definitely the biggest mistake imo
But all the super provisions and crap were way worse imo

[unique scaffold]

While I don’t like the super consumables I strongly feel that the equipment change was much much worse.

[main tulip]

Is-6 is super easy to pen though, and the m6a2e1 EXP has the same armor as the tier 7 variant, which I don't see you complaining about

[unique scaffold]

@celest karma Watch your language.

[celest karma]

Doesn’t help me to watch it when my message was deleted, two letters “BS” ,is now requiring watching the language ? Maybe you need to learn some English, if you consider letters of B and S as provocative.
Maybe BS means Biggest Score

[quasi axle]

Unfortunately for you abbreviated cursing is against the rules 🤷‍♂️

[unique scaffold]

It would behoove you to not argue on this matter. For the record I was referring to your use of the F word where you removed the U.

[main tulip]

is the yoh really OP? I hear some people say it is, but I have a super uni friend who thinks otherwise

[prisma jetty]

The Yoh is definitely op

[jagged crescent]

The two shot is the only version that I think can be considered OP.

[prisma jetty]

The three shot is used in comp for a reason.

[versed tide]

Three shot is what makes it broken

[main tulip]

Time to try the tank I guess

[prisma jetty]

The 2 shot is a fun pub stomper, but there’s a reason the 3 shot is considered more competitive.

[uneven narwhal]

Both it's guns are

It's got good turret armor (don't tell me to shoot the minuscule cupolas when the Yoh is constantly wiggling back and forth), 10 deg gun dep, and decent speed
Not to mention the tracks mechanic. 4 kmph is slow as hell yes but it still allows you to not get permatracked, you can still roll back behind cover unless you're in the middle of 5 tanks

120mm gun is easily the most broken in T10. 900 clip potential in sub 2s hello what? You may argue that it has bad DPM compared to others but DPM isn't always everything, you aren't leading the charge with the 120mm anyway. You poke out, stay reliably hulldown, deal 900 in before people can even react and roll back to cover.

105mm is okay for pubs I guess but that 3k DPM is yet again super strong in Ratings and Tournaments where it's all about the damage......

[main tulip]

Just tried it, the 2 shot feels boring as heck lol

wait it might actually be OP

[nimble zodiac]

I managed 3.2k average, it’s pretty good

[main tulip]

At least the tracks aren't like in PC where it's basically a wheeled tank lmao

[uneven narwhal]

Tbh PC is the worst thing to compare it against since balance in PC is basically non existent

But yeah agreed at least we don't have that abomination

[quasi axle]

Pc Yoh has a pretty crappy gun iirc

[main tulip]

tank with OP gun is far better for the game than tanks that can't be tracked

[leaden holly]

So Dracula was never nerfed but rather the equipment for everyone?

[queen summit]

yes because of rules with premium tanks, they cant be nerfed or apparently WG can be sued. they can for whatever reason make them collectors to loophole it (makes no sense)

[neat crescent]

though to date they havent done the thing in the last sentence, instead they test tanks in a prem/collector state and then decide how to release them and they stay as they are after the last tests, s.test> many tests> release

[leaden holly]

but isn’t it true that they also never nerfed collectors so far so it’s just a premium V2?

[wicked sluice]

As example,t22 was nerfed. All the small collectors were nerfed when they got the collector status

[drowsy plaza]

T-22 was adjusted. They made the sides larger over the V Hull. While realistically a nerf, it technically wasn’t.

[wicked sluice]

They also changed the Front of the tank,so its less angled and easier to penetrate

[drowsy plaza]

Part and parcel of the stretch raise. But the front even from the very start was never strong.

[spice silo]

No its not. Its a Very good tank but not OP,havent seen any noobs doing well in it.
It was OP pre reload magazine nerf

Pen eq should not exist in the first place.
Do I use it?
Ofc. 270 heat pen on t57? Yes Please,lol.
But it should not be like that,you can yeeet that shell anywhere and it will pen

[orchid grove]

The little gun is used in comp for the DPM, but for pubs, the big gun is honestly better

[uneven narwhal]

Solely due to the fact that you dump the same amount of damage in a much shorter time

[remote oriole]

Alpha is king

At this point I‘m just repeating mantras

[prisma jetty]

It is certainly op. Enough armor to reliably hull down, unable to be tracked, guns are both very good, and it’s got enough speed to get to where it needs to be

[nimble zodiac]

“It’s better than a balanced tank but it’s not OP”

[spice silo]

Cause its not.
If you can aim

[prisma jetty]

“Just aim lol”

[remote oriole]

This… suspension thingy whatever that holds the idler is so unnecessary

[nimble zodiac]

I'm so glad I can aim at the weakspot with no system implemented that will randomize where my shot will land 🥲

[hearty steeple]

How to eliminate drivewheel weakspot ok American tanks 101

[uneven narwhal]

yes let me aim for the minuscule cupolas which a good player will hide by using the position shown above and will wiggle back and forth during firing

[versed tide]

The yoh will be done reloading by the time you find a shot

[covert ridge]

I would love to see obj140 getting a little buff

[sleek grove]

Cope
fortnite dances away

[drowsy plaza]

Like what? If anything they need to remove the ridiculous-7 degrees of depression on the 62. Maybe flip those two for depression.

[sleek grove]

140 is more of a brawler whereas 62a is more of a hulldown
rides the hog away

[waxen peak]

Buff kv4

[queen summit]

sorry but i believe a certain update made every premium tank below tier 5 collector while nerfing them at the same time...
aka the first time collectors were introduced. AKA one of the most remembered updates
*but they still did it to EVERY prem below tier 5 did they not??? and if you think they are still not adding and buffing tanks that should never be buffed or nerfing really bad tanks. then your not playing the same game.
*oh like making it so that new players can get to t6+ without fully learning the game by making it so easy. were you not around in the forums after 5.5? it caused chaos that has never been settled. cut to a while latter when the added the ANNI AND SMASHER

[neat crescent]

im going to have to correct, this wasn't like they solely did it 5.5 to prems, they did that to even t7 tanks, tech tree, prems, whatever all of them below t5 became collectors and rare tanks that got nerfed due to their performance and just how horrible seal clubbing was, unless you think it was fair to have prems at low tiers and have them broken then thats on you, they did that since as yknow they dont love nerfing prems but collectors are fine, because they were broken and to help newbs yes? oh yeah did you hear that? wg actually did something good once and only once for low tiers

[full token]

They don’t love nerfing premiums at higher tiers. Lower tier ones don’t seem to be that important to them

[neat crescent]

bruh i have 6 years playing up to this day people are still whining and crying about it, just get over it, yes i loved how diverse things were and how it was back then but hey its been 3.0 updates since, and i´ve forgotten and gotten accustomed to it, no tank has changed from premium status to collector after release(high tiers) sure there's unneeded buffs and nerfs but hey only tech trees are on the bad end part and they still get fixed cough cough though it takes millenniums for them to fix them, wg rn is implementing a new role for about every tank in game so you will only see more ¨senseless¨ buffs and nerfs coming from said roles since we were used to a diff system, im just gonna sit and enjoy until they pss off everyone or until they hit me on a nerve

[queen summit]

" sure there's unneeded buffs and nerfs but hey only tech trees are on the bad end part and they still get fixed" sorry how is buffing the best t8 tank (shark) gonna get fixed? oh just wait 3+ updates for it to be replaced by a new prem heavy that will slaughter the unbuffed and awful t8 tech tree tanks that no one cares about... name any other game where that happen, it doesnt, not even in COD

[neat crescent]

nah wgs fix is buff every tech tree around sharks game play style and call that a fix since they cant go back on buffs :), like they did with annihilator, dont work for wg so dont care, i dont even do t7 often and the annis were often nuubs at least it didnt affect me but yeah typical vet player moral comment: yeah i feel bad for em but it doesnt affect me so eh

[queen summit]

yeah they fix stuff.... like the anni, TWO YEARS LATER.. IT SHOULD NEVER.... EVER.... take that long to do a fix

[main tulip]

They fixed the anni?

[queen summit]

they gave it a "different" mm. so therefor WG claims to have "fixed" its op-ness.. aka they gave an overcomplicated solution to not nerf it since its a prem. and long story short, its still op

[jagged crescent]

was used anyways

[upbeat sphinx]

buff the ac iv sentinel, it just a worst crownell b

[spice silo]

Well,I somehow don’t have any issues with fighting yohs and I’m by No means a pro player.
Still find it easy

[safe cipher]

i wonder if 252u is getting a 12 sec reload

[main tulip]

Strangely enough I have the most trouble fighting the yoh in my own yoh

[drowsy plaza]

105mm Yoh looking at 120mm.

120mm looking at 105

And a different view to see the change on the mantlet etc with the different guns

[main tulip]

honestly I can't see much difference

[mental pasture]

Honestly I see no difference at all

[main tulip]

one of them has a slight patch of yellow I guess

[unique scaffold]

I know it's not that bad, but maybe the M48 Patton could do with some buffs. It's old, nobody uses it anymore and every other tier X medium can probably outperform it. I just think it used to be a good tank and it would be nice to see it again on the battlefield sometimes.

[stiff edge]

have you been living under a rock

[uneven narwhal]

It's looking like he is the rock 💀

[quartz wasp]

i has been buffed a few updates back, and definitely not a "bad stb" anymore

[neat crescent]

need some help getting accustomed to technology, mr.cave man?

[stuck acorn]

5.5 was a disaster and everybody that played this game at least year before it happened knows that. Low tier rebalance was obviously needed but they gone way to far. All they basically had to do was to nerf few outstanding tanks like Pz 2j, Su 76 I, T18, T82, BT 7 art, T46, A 20, luchs and few more i don't even remember anymore. And what they did is actually completly removing everything that made these tiers playable and turned them into boring vanilla crap we have until now, that nobody even wants to play.

in current version, to actually get into a match at T4 or below you usually need to wait few minutes in queue. So it's not like these tiers are only boring. You basically can't play them even if you want to unless you want to spend twice as much time on waiting than on playing because games are also extremly quick there

[frail silo]

you shouldn't be staying at T4 or any of the lower tiers anyway.
people abused this stuff to stat pad, and experienced players clubbing newbies who just got into the game and pushing them out of it isn't remotely in WGs interests.
their income comes before the enjoyment of some random clubber.

@full token and they get out of these tiers once they are done with it? no incentive to stay in a mostly vanilla tier with tanks that mostly play the same.

[full token]

shouldnt stay there but people grind tanks there

[stuck acorn]

yes tho these changes were made to tanks on up to T5. And to get from T5 to T6 you actually need to play around 20-30 games which are way trough pain. Sealclubbers are one probelm, but inability to not even have fun, but PLAY the game on basically half of the tier is a different story. It's way bigger problem. (don't consider me as a sealclubber. Last time when i played a tank below T6 except 2 battles to get footage before joining conversation today was half of a year ago)

Another thing is that higher tiers are currently flooded with newbies and noobs because of too low skill cap at lower tiers. And i don't want anybody to understand me wrong, lower tiers ofc need a lower skill cap, but in the current state of the game there is no skill cap there. You can ride up into middle of mines and survive around 30 seconds without dying. That's just stupid and shouldn't be possible on any tier.

Also forgot to mention, in current state of the game grinding up to high tier tanks takes way to short. Problem is even bigger when you take into consideration x3 and x5 boosters which are totally broken. (WG doesn't seem any problem in them tho according to one of the latest Q&A with them).

[uneven narwhal]

The thing is, easier grind at lower tiers helps in the retention of new playerbase
Not everyone is really dedicated to grinding lower tiers first then moving on to higher after sufficient learning

Although this does hurt the game balance by introducing more bad players in higher tiers, we cant help it if its ultimately increasing the playerbase

Although with the availability of abundance of FXP, credits, and research certificates, 5.5 could be reversed and lower tiers could be made more diverse sort of?

[distant river]

It was always easy to get to high tiers and there have always and will always be bad players there, since 5.5 the only change is players are retained longer so more profit and sealclubbers don't get a fun time, which is perfect.

A player that doesn't learn with the tech tree how it is won't learn when they get abused by someone with 20k games in a DW2

[stuck acorn]

That's why i said the game rebalance at lower tiers was needed. They ve gone too far tho. Now we are at the point when it doesn't matter if you are sealclubber or a new player you can't get into a game because nobody plays there

[frail silo]

i didn't consider you as a seal clubber but i thought i didn't have to specify that, sorry about this one.
also this is perfect for WG because this way they increase their profits. and that is what comes first for a company.

[uneven narwhal]

5,5 was just an update that people made a mountain out of a molehill

If WG reverses it for current playerbase satisfaction, people will swam low tiers for a day, or a week maximum then forget about it
Now guess what, newer players look at the grind and just go "eh nah this too complex I download some simple point and shoot game"

[twin egret]

But the -7 is historic I'd say they nerf the accuracy because why does it have the same dispersion as a Grille

[drowsy plaza]

Oh that gun is just ridiculous agreed.

[round sundial]

What? How is nerfing medium tanks a good idea when clearly the meta are heavies? I don't understand that notion.

[twin fulcrum]

We don't know what they'll consider to buff or nerf, because now it's all up to whether the tank fills its designated class type or not.

[twin egret]

Yeah, a tad ironic too since russian guns are regarded as inacurate

[twin egret]

Shut up

[sudden granite]

Free nitro again <@&481447501690568709>
Ez money

[gleaming apex]

IceFire2#9467 was banned

rita de cassia lol#3964 has been warned.

[stray garden]

I just want to say M8A1 last gun is semi cooked because a M5 Stuart was around 2 m outside my dispersion circle while my turret was broken shot at a chi ha and missed somehow hitting the M5 Stuart on 80 health

[split minnow]

Sta1 buff when?

[lost moon]

I think devs should remove the system of deducting credits when losing a match or having bad position in the match
(For newbies)

[sleek grove]

They should make less efficient players lose more
Cause it's like a punishment
Bad player = less credits per game
This is to push bad players into doing better in a game

[sudden granite]

Or they go bankrupt and quit the game lmao

[sleek grove]

Honestly I don't mind the 2nd option 💀

[unique scaffold]

I think that you should be having this discussion in #909117768379564052

[twin egret]

WG please buff your players and nerf the pros

[full token]

pros are players. How do you buff and nerf

[remote oriole]

Observe and learn

[uneven narwhal]

RIG RNG

[nimble zodiac]

You do what they did to Black Prince

[sleek grove]

Can't, I'm cooking and playing with one hand at the same time, plus I'm dok G homework with the other hand

[unique scaffold]

me when ghost shells

[stiff edge]

me when skill issue

[twin egret]

I guess aiming is too hard

[gentle imp]

concept 1b needs a nerf

[ember wolf]

Can you consider an alpha buff for Ho-ri III? Example:
AP: 600
Premium AP: 560
HE: 700

[nimble zodiac]

Ho-Ri traded trading (lol) capabilities for extremely effective penetration. It also has a very minimal damage drop when using premium shells. I believe it doesn't need to be changed

@unique scaffold the forum link in the channel, NA and EU only.

[unique scaffold]

Anyone knows where i can sign up for opet test

[main tulip]

If you're gonna buff the ho-ri, buff the gun arc and/or shell velocity. the alpha is fine

[neat crescent]

i dont think that thing needs a buff, thank you

[uneven narwhal]

None of the Japanese TDs need any buffs

[unique scaffold]

Is the 60tp good?

[main tulip]

buff the object 260

[reef fable]

60TP is good! It's got a good alpha gun and with tungsten shell it's amazing! It's got a decent mobility and a strong frontal armor. Once hulldown it's really hard to hit the hatch. Only downside is the ammorack...it's very easy to detonate if you have a high caliber gun.

[minor minnow]

There’s no real reason to, just play it as a medium

[dire crest]

Where i ll be able to find the link for the "aim test" ? Can u dm me pls someone if know, thx o7

[small vale]

test-announcements

[timber linden]

KpfPz70 HE shell buff to 680, i don't get why it's so low if the AP dmg is already at 560

[gaunt hull]

Imo 60TP needs a buff to HE shell damage, maybe something up to 850 alpha, because it's just little bit disappointing when AP alpha is already 600

[small vale]

the fun thing is the gun even bigger than E100

[timber linden]

i agree with you but the 60tp is so strong right now that i don't feel like buffing would be a great desicion. maybe nerf the HE pen a bit in exchange?

[gaunt hull]

Exactly, it's just funny when you can hit your opponent with HE, but you'll deal max 100 more damage than with standard shell.
I'm not sure about Penetration Nerf, because as everyone was saying that 60TP is a good counterpart of E 100, E 100 has still better pen with HE shells and it has still more alpha though, but Nerfing HE Penetration a little bit in exchange for higher HE alpha would be logic.

[marble tide]

where tanks stats to 8.4/8.5?

[cunning pond]

WG what U did with ballance? Last week all my teams under 50%WR and enemy 49-50%+

[uneven narwhal]

skill issue

[sleek grove]

brain issue

[elfin wing]

It is about MM, not balance. Check the 📌 Pinned Messages.
#tank-balance-discussion message

In the correct channel try to prove your statement with screenshots and MM is trying to make teams according to tank types and tiers first. Don't forget that.

[full token]

They stopped doing that. See the last post in #devs-answers

[cunning pond]

WR isn't skill level?

[uneven narwhal]

Complaining about teams = skill issue

[sleek grove]

complaining about MM in general = 🤡

[mental pasture]

My tank is already superior than E100 in turret armor, speed and agility, reload, op consumables and I also want more HE damage 🤡 🤡 🤡

[real oasis]

WG: we will update e100 and iS 7/after update /e100 ogs:bruh

[brave dragon]

read #916339529412128808

[candid rose]

Mobilty is crap its so sloooow

[mental pasture]

Considering the armor values, I expected it to be even slower

[candid rose]

I mean yes its kinda good for armor but its just me not used to slow tanks

[rocky parcel]

i honestly think WG should introduce anti camping measures like taking away cover close the spawn; camping is really OP nowadays with all these scrubs waiting in spawn to do damage

[uneven narwhal]

What if the match situation evolves to a part where you need to go back to spawn to hide

It's certainly not favourable for anyone to lose camo rating just because the circumstances forced them into doing so

Campers are already useless to the team, there are barely any maps or positions where spawn camping actually leads to a few shots

[rocky parcel]

Well I don't really care that camping would become even less viable because it should not be viable at all

[distant river]

Campers are useless to the team but they appear everywhere because they end up getting a couple shots in and feeling like they were useful before their damage is near their hp. Imo it's a mix of:

1. Sitting in a bush being the easiest thing to do

2. Fear of going alone because everyone else is camping

3. Seeing people get good damage when camping (even if it's useless damage)

4. Fear of going forwards and getting nuked (by campers or otherwise) because of a bad position

5. can be solved by removing cover as suggested, 2) is self fulfilling, 3) is the playerbase not understanding what it means to be useful which is never going to change, and 4) is pretty unlikely to change until things like the 183 and KV2 stop influencing the game so much and it's also a little self fulfilling as well.

[mental pasture]

That's 1984 in a nutshell

[river valley]

Poor ferdinand

[candid rose]

The tiger p has the same shet

[twilit crystal]

The 60tp with good he damage is broken. Just go hull down and trade he shots with 120 mm heavies

[uneven narwhal]

You're clearly both

[spark delta]

I think the anti HE provisions should be removed from all tanks basically. It literally makes certain tanks immune to HE shells. I usually roll higher with my standard shells than with HE.
I don't think it makes a lot of sense that a Grille can HE other tanks for 900 dmg while not taking 900 from the same shot himself.

[gleaming apex]

billiam123#5182 has been warned.

bigstone_LT#3578 has been warned.

[versed tide]

I think 4005 kinda deserves it

[elfin wing]

That is the point of using that provision, and to use that u sacrifice one slot. Literally any T9-10 tanks he shells can pen grille from everywhere, but grille cannot connect he shells to everything it can see. And literally everyone can shoot grille without trying to aim to the weak spots, since the tank is a big weak spot.

[neat crescent]

the difference is, ANY tank wont die from 3 HE shots from about any tank like grille does, since they wont be 24/7 HE spammed, unless were talking about fighting vs a 80% er in the 183 but thats a special case and a rare thing to happen, grille with a 183 in the match at most survives 2 shells while most tanks above 5+ without the HE protection provision and a smart play

[full token]

That’s the point of paper armor. Weak enough to get HEd, so you play in a way that avoids that as much as possible. The tanks don’t need to get a provision to make most HE the worse option. Swapping one of the smaller provisions (either the fuel or the crew provisions) for spall liner loses barely any performance for the tank, and you get the benefits of spall liner. You’ll still have the big crew and big fuel provision.

[spark delta]

Yeah well that is the fate of a glass cannon. Now the grille can trade positively with every tank except maybe 2 while having higher DPM than most. Getting shot by HE was one of the key characteristics of the grille line and now this was just removed. The tanks were good before but now they survive for even longer. The WT especially is super strong now.

[elfin wing]

Why all the arguments here is like this game is one vs one duel of two stationary tanks? Also why you only pick DPM why do you exclude HP information for example? And grille need to do those shots and for some need to aim well, and for some may need to switch to premium. But those dont support your case hence u prefer not to use any other factors, right?

[neat crescent]

one point everyone agrees on is that wt did not need it, but i remind you how unfornate the 640 2 clip era of foch was for the grille 15? no one played it or they camped even harder, sure its a glass cannon, but as you should´ve realised by now, ap shells can pen it, and so can any shells, HE just simply made it,a t10 worse than the t9, unenjoyable, sure it requires some skills to play those tanks, but it requires no skill to HE spam em like a monke, which is why when they added the provision a good amount of players got back to using it and some started playing/liking it, fv4005 is a glass cannon too(partly) but it doesnt suffer as much as grille 15, bc its got about the same mobility, a slightly better armor, more aggressive and scary gun and better camo, with grille after shooting you´re always spotted and shot at, you need to play it even at 250m risking a HEAVY spotting you, and thats quite far in the back, it cant be played frontline like the t9 thanks to its crippling depression and p.much its only redeeming quality is the profile and dpm/gun stats somewhat, since all about it is the cannon, its got nothing besides that unlike other same tier tds, you spotted? dead, up in the open? dead, a vickers in the match? dead, etc etc. grille has far more disadvantages when compared to other classes and tanks of its same class and tier that its not worth adding more cons to it than the pros its has to offer

[full token]

4005 has worse armor. It’s a lot ‘bigger’ (easier to hit), and the grille can block better with the gun. You can make a better argument for the 4005 having a spall liner than the grille

[neat crescent]

4005 has a better overall hull, sure youre not hitting it all the time, but ive been in situations where i bait shots at it and bounce or just take less damage with it, the better armor part is not referring to the turret only, since both have 10-30mm around the turret, yeah its bigger but somehow has a better camo than a 183(which is similar in size) and a grille 15, it may be easier to hit but its harder to find and spot so youre not hitting it as often as a grille after it shoots at you.

[spark delta]

You are making some good points here and I also think that the Grille isn't a very enjoyable tank in most matchups. However, I don't think that such a provision is the correct way of handling it.
Correct choice of ammunition is a skill and in my opinion the correct choice for shooting the grille should be HE but that is currently not the case. It doesn't make any sense that you use HE to shoot at weakly armoured tanks but it doesn't apply to the tanks that factually have no armour at all.
The Grille probably has the best gun in the entire game, it's only drawback is the chassis it has been mounted on. It could be played effectively even before the provision came but ofc that took quite some skill. It is not like anyone was forced to camp in the spot that is wide open and does not have any cover whatsoever. The point that makes the Grille unenjoyable is the fact that it is a support vehicle, so if your team isn't good you are likely not going to do well that game.

[neat crescent]

the thing is , such thing as support vehicles, is not present in wotb, unless you can mention a line which prides itself on that, there are meds and tds which each are only there to destroy tanks, except that they do it in different ways, meds with their good mobility,guns and armor combination being the generalists, the tds usually have a thing going for them, whether its the 183s alpha, the german jg with the 800 alpha gun and its enhanced armor, the fv (the armored one)is a tank with a good frontline ¨kit¨, bringing in a slow wall capable of chipping away anyones tank to death, the japanese can pen anything, the chinese tanks are a copy of the russians in a sense but they boast some armor with a great gun, the 263 is a fast armored frontline td capable of something similar to a badger except that it loses some armor for speed, the 268 is a generalist, the brits got an autoloader td with great mobility and gun stats over armor overall, the french got the foch, though outdated, it boasts decent armor agaisnt regular shells and a great gun, but hard to handle since the mobility is nothing out of the world, just good, but what about grille? yeah it has a turret, just like a few of the t10 tds, but its turn rate is limited, by a lot, doesnt have gun dep, its got just slightly more dpm than the other tds, a regular alpha, yeah the best gun stats wise but a useless gun if the carrier is done in before it can be used or the team is unable to support it, theres many factors that unlike with other tds, make it unfavorable to use a grille 15 over any other kind of td

[versed tide]

Grille gets an amazing gun (arguably one of the best in the game) but has no armor, the point is you get punished. I personally don’t mind reticle calibration but the spall liner needs to be removed from line from both waffle and grille, rhm could keep it imo

[stuck acorn]

just remove all super consumables... What's the point of complaining about 1 single super consumable when all of them are simply unfair. (i agree tho that this specific one is the stupidest out of all)

Or if you want more variety just give it to all tanks, not few specific ones

[leaden flare]

dont give spall to every tank thats the most stupid thing ever just remove it from every tank

[full token]

Either all have it or none

[elfin wing]

Hmm, so if WG adds spall liner to every tank, u will be ok with that. Interesting.

[spark delta]

Yeah there is no real class of support vehicles but some vehicles definitely fall into that category. Those are vehicles that cannot reliably output damage without taking it without help of a team. Some tanks that would fall into that category are the Grille, also the Leo, FV4005 to some extent. Basically all tanks that do not have armor and cannot stand their own without support.
The problem is these tanks heavily rely on their team because if they get caught out of position they are done but I don't think that should be solved by some OP provision.

[neat crescent]

i wont continue any further than this for now since i gotta go but i will just mention this since some people seem to be talking in a plural sense yet unaware of what they're talking about, though as annoying it is, spall liner is only present in 2 lines out of the 30+ tech trees available in the game, the 2 being fv4005 and grille 15 as you are aware, both of which fall into a ¨support¨ category since by themselves with no such provisions said tanks cant really play a crucial part in a match unlike every other tank in the game(the grille 15 mostly). now feel free to continue whatever arguments were previously made, leopard 1 has just enough armor that it doesnt get HE spammed frontally and it can evade shells and camouflage easily, it just has a lot of things that make it a tank that either does or doesnt fit into the support category so i would say, that part depends on the player, cya l8r

[versed tide]

Me brawling heavies with grille 🥵

[drowsy plaza]

The problem with spall liner is it removes smaller cal HE from any viability in game. Also because WG uses stupid consumables and provisions for lines not individual tanks, you get some tanks that are ridiculous with those consumables and provisions.

Perhaps the better idea would be to intend balance for those tanks with out any of that.

[winged barn]

Soviet med HE go brrrrr

[full token]

The grille without spall liner has a very good gun, and straight line speed. It can be effective in a battle

[neat crescent]

alright man im in a bus, most meds without spall liner have a very good gun and overall speed, they can be effective in battle. that argument doesnt precisely work as intended, grille 15, is just a tank thats lacking, though i dont have access to wgs server to show stats i can mention these, the ones from comparing tanks and the one from the blitzstars site, idk if the ones on blitzstar are limited to something but you can still see, the grille 15, is not one of the best performing Tds, extra pic was just to show 263

i used the wz as a comparison before but heres how it would look if it was the grille 15 btw

[drowsy plaza]

@neat crescent Grille is higher skill ceiling. Higher risk, higher reward. It’s got amazing DPM but like the Leo 1 hard to play for most of the player base. The issue with spall liner is more the Waffle and Borsig in that line.

[neat crescent]

yeah i am aware, i was just arguing that at least in grille 15´s case, the tank is underperforming and DOES need the spall liner, unlike the other tanks in the line, wt has always performed better than the t10 with and without the spall liner and borsig is perfect as it is, though some people disagree , i disagree with them disagreeing lol, only grille 15 needed that not the entire line

[mental pasture]

The "skill ceiling" argument just overwhelm this comment.

Its nothing but normal to tanks with high skill ceilings to underperform when compared to others, mostly meta tanks or others known to be at least decent. The average stats of all the players together is incredibly lower than you think.

The only thing that Grille needed was either a transverse buff or a great camouflage stats buff. No lightly armored tanks are supposed to take shots, in theory, you must only poke when you're under a great defense (like a hulldown position), when your enemies are distracted/don't see you or when they're loading.

Even with spall liner Grille 15 stills not a tank supposed to go to Frontline, you either do a second line or try to snipe trying to not get spotted. The difference is that now noobs are much more daring because they don't fear HE anymore.

[neat crescent]

yup its not a tank meant to frontline, i didnt say that, but even second line(150m-250m) or sniping if not at over 300m, gets you easily spotted and killed, so regardless, giving it more survivability i think was the right choice, nubs always die or lose, yeah they ruin matches or win matches, depending on where they sit, but they too, learn at some point, not everyone stays at 40% wr forever, its just a phase and people get used to tanks too so like i said, its fine as it is currently, no need to change it honestly, could use some small buffs sometime though.

[mental pasture]

I expected balance changes to happen based on how the tank currently is, not based on it's skill ceiling or how the noobs deal with it.

[neat crescent]

if thats the case then it might get buffed 🤔, im just answering based on your questions and the ss posted above it doesnt need any buffs yeah, but if we go by wr then it might@mental pasture

[mental pasture]

The tank currently is balanced and don't need buffs, but considering how WG likes to buff balanced tanks (T29 feelings), yep, it might get buffed.

Notice that I never mention "WR", as WR from high skill ceiling tanks can be tricky and sketchy. Bat Chat 25t demands much skill to be played, don't expect to be awesome on it if you're just above average, the same goes to Grille.

[main tulip]

I'd rather the grille have better pen than the spall liner

[high bay]

Nerf smasher

[full token]

The grille before the spall liner was sufficiently good too. Not that easy to play but you could be effective with the gun and with the top speed. If it ever needed a buff, fixing the HE weakness was a bad idea, because it makes HE the worse ammo to fire for most tanks. I’d rather buff the gun further or consider giving it back the gun arc it lost long ago

[twin egret]

Grille line never needed spall liner except for the Grille itself

[jade kiln]

Yeah you can just camp to avoid getting HE’d. For me personally, getting closer to the front is the way to play for the Grille

[mental pasture]

Nothing on the Grille line needed Spall liner*

No, it needed a true buff either on camouflage to make sniping viable or on agility, but capping all the guns HE in order to make the Grille's life easier is too much

[twin egret]

Just on the grille 15
A spall liner that only works for guns above 140

[main tulip]

Nah grille doesn't need any sort of spall liner. It needs better pen, better gun arc, or better camo. Any one of those will make it much more capable of doing its job well

[unique scaffold]

I agree with the camo, but the gun arc????? and better pen??? that would make it kind of op, i know it's pen isnt the greatest but i use gun rammer on it and still have enough pen, isnt like a lot but you can always load HEAT

I know and I only said that only one of those options were balaced, which was the camo, let's put it like that

Yea i can agree with it but i my opinion the only buff grille needs right now it's a camo, not a big one but at least a WT level or almost it

Mobility buff? I dont know about that one it can reach up to 50 km/h if i remember currently, the turn rate seems bad but if you put it faster isnt a great idea

@lunar niche I know but you wont be front lining in a grille, will you, at max you will be a second line or third, the only time you need the mobility os to relocate, also there always equipments you can put in it

[main tulip]

I said "or", meaning buff any one of those and only one
the pen is weird because the heat pen is only heavy tank level and the HE pen is less than any other 150mm in the game for no reason
mobility would be a nice buff too, the tank feels like it turns slower than heavies

[lunar niche]

Camo buff on Grille will just promote more redline camping.

Give back its old mobility and remove the obnoxious gun angles.

50 km/h in a straight line. Loses all that speed while turning as it turns like a superheavy.

@@unique scaffold You are pretty much forced to frontline in it because of the maps. Most maps you are pretty much forced to run along with heavies/meds.

[unique scaffold]

Front line in it only makes people focus you more and i can tell by my own experience lol
Cries over the flashbacks

You can be like a support as you have a big alpha gun, and slap the enemies meds when they go and try to shoot your teammate meds

[rare sleet]

bam lets slap a spall liner on sheridan wouldn't that be fun?

[uneven narwhal]

lmao

[unique scaffold]

Do I have to play against pc players when I turn on same colour control type they have superior aiming.

[uneven narwhal]

On mobile if you turn it on, you will only play with and against mobile players, although I don't know how a mobile/PC platoon will affect that

[unique scaffold]

I heard It only works in normal modes is it true?

[half dome]

Hi guys!

[elfin wing]

Then it will be mixed. Toon eliminates that choice.

[vivid dome]

i feel like the chineese techtree needs some love.

[main tulip]

All the tier 10s are pretty good, I can agree with some problems being among the mid tiers though

[real bison]

I mean, I’ve seen PC players with far worse aim than mobile players

claw grip is literally busted

[mental pasture]

The only difference is that, if you're not used to mobile gameplay, your aim will be more stable and agile. You'll not suddenly become a 60%wr because of this, but it's a small advantage

[unique scaffold]

Like I said pc players have superior aiming let em play against pc players.

[rocky parcel]

mobile auto aim is kinda busted so it's all rather balanced

[leaden flare]

i mean you can turn on smae control mode so its your fault if you meet pc players and mobile players can aim basically just as good as pc players when they train it
most insanely good players are mobile players

[mental pasture]

It doesn't make the game extremely unbalanced and pretty much depends in how used you are to mobile devices, also, it's not even a question about PC, it's much more because of the mouse.

[gleaming apex]

heyandsowhat!?#2406 has been warned.

[dawn meteor]

Buff ISU-152 mobility

[neat crescent]

buff smasher while were at it since it doesnt need a buff either

[orchid grove]

<@&481447501690568709>

[gleaming apex]

MinecraftBedrock#4257 was banned

[mental pasture]

Send this suggestion to BuffMyFavoriteBalancedTank.org

[upbeat sphinx]

is 2 is the worst tank i Have every played, it has nothing. No armour, the gun is fake, the mobility sucks and gets raped by smashers and annihalotors

[gleaming apex]

Giulione#8761 has been warned.

[nimble zodiac]

Lol all of those statements are so misleading (the last one is because they are OP, and destroy all of the other tanks too)

[wooden wave]

Wg should do something with obj 730

[nimble zodiac]

Understandably bland, but balanced.

Too bad, it's balanced =)

[wooden wave]

Is 5 C'mon

[upbeat sphinx]

Arguably the tech tree IS 2 could be considered among the tech tree tanks as one of the worst, as the wr shows is second last according to blitz stars.
The gun is just horrific and the grind is painful too. Now considering is an heavy it can get matched against op heavy tanks much more and unlike the best tech trees one(tiger p/1, bp, t 29) it has nothing to rival against those.

[full token]

250mm HEAT is enough to fight tier 8s

[neat crescent]

250mm ap is enough to fight t8

[wooden wave]

More than enough

[unique scaffold]

u mean HEAT right?

[neat crescent]

i mean AP, specifically the t8 ho-ri

[upbeat sphinx]

the gun is so horrible in terms of dispersion, i remember being one of the worst guns i have ever tried, It almost felt like an 183 gun handling.

[unique scaffold]

ohh thought u were answering TacNayn since you were replaying to him

[full token]

For me the grind was bearable and it did ok. Has good alpha, can pen anything in the tier, can bounce a bit. The gun isn’t very accurate but it wasn’t a major issue to me. There are less accurate guns.
In that tier you can get away with sidescraping without enemies being patient or exploiting weakspots. It’s easier to use what armor you have, and aim in and get the most out of the gun

[sleek grove]

Is2 grind was fine-ish to me, mainly bc I already had the 121, which meant I already had most of the guns researched on the heavy side.
But still, it's just Russian tanks but weaker somehow

[mental pasture]

I had a real good experience in the Chinese IS-2 in every aspect, it's a heavy that I liked but would never play again.

[main tulip]

Buff HE on most tanks

[gentle imp]

300mm ap pen is fine to fight tier 8

[neat crescent]

380mm AP pramo is fine at tier 10

[mental pasture]

Buff this, buff that
That tank is so bad, why don't buff it?
This tank needs special consumables as buffs
If the lower tiers get powercrept, buff them too
If the top tiers get powercrept, buff them too
If all of the tanks become powercrept due to inflation of buffs, buff them all together once again

[unique scaffold]

facts lol

but talking on that let's buff 183 HESH dmg, it's HE at the end of the day

[jade kiln]

Let’s buff 183’s armor, they said. Nothing will go wrong, they said

[neat crescent]

they´re only buffing the turret sides,everything else is as weak as paper, i wonder why so many people are crying about it, git gud

[elfin anchor]

I wonder when the sta-1 will ever change it has no armor, bad accuracy (aimtime) for caliber and tier, its so long.

[nimble zodiac]

Lol AP is better than HEAT if they’re both 250mm pen

[fluid topaz]

Git gud

Well dam, you win.

[unique scaffold]

Yea because AP has shell normalization and HEAT doesn't

[neat crescent]

https://tenor.com/view/gitgud-thepruld-git-gud-dark-gif-8126281

[prisma jetty]

It's accuracy is rather good, and it's penetration is just great. I wouldn't mind a mobility buff though

[rapid citrus]

Idk why everyone complains bout it, on paper its trash or smth, but its quite fun to use.

[elfin anchor]

the chi ri (tier before it) is more fun to play

[last shadow]

Can't really compare anything to the chi ri
That thing is hilarious

[mental pasture]

Chill, they are just buffing the turret sides... Then the frontal armor... Then the engine... Then the cannon... Wait, since when we got a tier 11?

[full token]

Buff the annihilator. Everyone can git gud and deal with it

[neat crescent]

buff your skill. everyone can git gud that way and deal with 500mm of turret sides only at the front and whenever it turns the turret for 200mm of armor, oh yeah did u hear that? the turrets becoming even BIGGER!, a huge upper part with no armor, the mid and the lower section too ! would you look at that the sides are thinner in the hull and the front plate lost 10-20mm! WOW, impressive so hard to deal with a paper tank the fv4202 could frontally HESH spam it

[quasi axle]

🤡

[frail silo]

Lol moment

[full token]

Yes buff the tank that hits people for half their hp

[neat crescent]

buff the armor in the turret roof so people keep complaining its gonna break a tank thats still as weak as ever

[full token]

Didn’t say it’s strong. It’s a toxic tank that should’ve stayed as it was. WG themselves had said they were happy with it being where it was, until recently with all the random buffs and nerfs

[tiny snow]

Nerf the smasher or buff EVERYTHING else

[full token]

theyre already down the path of buffing everything else

[outer glen]

Can we discuss about 1b

[fallow eagle]

Totally balanced with 2.5k dpm stock and 18 km reverse with no turret weakspots
Almost forgot 10° of gun depression

[neat crescent]

hulldown most t10 heavies, well except for a few, dont have any noticeable weakspots, and if they do theyre very small, though not as small as the millimetric turret ring and sides on the concept 1 b

[drowsy plaza]

@upbeat sphinx not the right place.

[upbeat sphinx]

Ok

[fallow eagle]

Can wg undo the nerf on kranvagn plz?
It's rarely seen in battles nowadays (atleast on apac server)
I think it was well balanced before the nerf and didn't really deserve the nerf
I guess a part of it was because it was spammed in tournaments

[drowsy plaza]

Kran, E5 and 215b nerfs made them relatively pointless to play these days if you want to be competitive.

[uneven narwhal]

I still see Kran as a nice tank to just go hulldown and relax but I'd rather have the super consumables removed, and the turret traverse to its original

It took a harder hit than my grades, the tank feels like a Maus while turning

[tiny snow]

👍

[stuck acorn]

it's turret traverse is actually worse than in a maus if i remember correctly

that E50M buff tho wtf what are u smoking wg

[nimble zodiac]

They want to make it look competitive against the up n coming 50t

[harsh ridge]

when is wargaming going to fix the match making, old topic i know but i have been recording battles and i am at a %75 low tier every game, almost always low tier on 2 different accounts, the other issue is teams getting 4 upper tier heavies and one team getting just one upper tier heavy or one team in particular tier 6 and 7 having 4 or 5 tanks that can do 400 damage per shot the other team having one or none, tank matchups just seem to be horrible, like when one team gets an anni, smasher and grave digger and your team doesnt have a single premium

[dense oyster]

the same time WG nerf the Smasher, remove Super provisions and consumables, and buff the fv215b 🤔

[split verge]

Just a question. In last Update, all national crew voices came for the european tech tree, but swedish voices dind’t came. Why??

[neat crescent]

because not ALL voices were included in said update, which is why they specified which tech trees wil get CVs rather than the entire nation, they never said all european tech tree would get it

[frail silo]

that is not what he is asking.
the swedish tree was here before the other nations. it doesn't make sense they got theirs first.

[remote oriole]

We don‘t know the reasons, but we can expect them to make Swedish crew voices sooner or later

[neat crescent]

its very likely they didnt import them from pc and are working on new ones or that its just simply laid back until god knows what update

[unique scaffold]

u got to wait cuz it was in tests and only in 8.6 we'll see the final result

[split verge]

Thanks man 😄

[delicate moth]

It is good they prioritised Finnish voices over Swedish.

[frail silo]

yeah
prioritize crew voices for a single tank

[unique scaffold]

maybe they plan in add Finnish line

[buoyant path]

Progetto 65 is kind lackin the speed it needs

[twin egret]

I hope swedish meds enter the game

[unique scaffold]

but in a counter for that it has a 1k dmg clip, that can dump all shells in 6s, and a autoreloading gun, besides the troll upper plate that can bounce even the highest caliber guns and a enough accurately gun for a med
but in case it gets a buff wouldnt be a big one, maybe only 2 km/h so it can keep up with E50 M

[buoyant path]

All I want really and maybe better power to weight ratio

[real bison]

simple fix: play tier X

and never get uptiered

play smarter, not harder

[unique scaffold]

yeah thats an example of a good buff, but, maybe give it the same hp/t as E50M or somewhere near it

[cursive schooner]

Its even worse than a wz 113 which has horrible turning speeds to say the least. It’s at 16.69 degrees per second stock

[autumn urchin]

.69 heh

[unique scaffold]

The turret armor is quite good tho

[cursive schooner]

Yeah but it can’t move. That’s why I’m not buying it

[unique scaffold]

i personally think it still a useful tank on the battlefield

[winged barn]

It moves just fine. Just plan ahead where you need to point it

[rare sleet]

Yo what is this 150mm belly armor and what?? The tank only weighs 43 tons???

After some quick calculations a steel plate 150mm thick is about 243 pounds per square feet. I'd say that plate is roughly 5.8x2m so convert sq m 11.6 to sq ft 124.86 multiply that by 243 pounds which equals about 30,340 pounds. Which is about 13.76 metric tons. That steel plate alone weighs 13.76 TONS!
Not balanced lets use a comparable heavy like the kpfz70 which is 50t and has a 20mm steel plate like a normal tank.
The tank can't possibly have a 150mm steel plate there

[neat crescent]

balanced as all things should be

[rare sleet]

Ah yes if i had more free time I could calculate the weight of the rest of the armor. But that one steel plate alone makes up 32% of the total mass of that tank apparently.
Wait ill make it in sprocket

[neat crescent]

please do, it will be interesting to see how wg devs made up such a fantasy tank, with the stats that reflect ig i mean

[rare sleet]

This thing was insanely crammed to make and it ended up weighing 66.7 tons I couldnt fit basically anything like ammo and the crew had like no space

[neat crescent]

yeah, some ww2 tanks were very cramped, hell even some cold war era designs, so its 20 tons ligher in the game then?

[outer glen]

Even the sides armor 90mm+

[waxen osprey]

fair and balanced mechanics 👍

[remote oriole]

Because it‘s an unrealistic nonsense tank that could never work in real life

[nimble zodiac]

Dang, the Concept 1B is a concept?!?!
This is outrageous

[unique scaffold]

Add an extra 2 seconds to anni reload and make its front hull and turret lose 8 mm

[main tulip]

just make it so that it can't reliably hit all three shots unless at very close range

[frail silo]

it already kind of can't

[full token]

Not for close range. It’s not that bad at medium range as well

[lucid lotus]

Lol

[gleaming apex]

80DeuceJeff#4544 has been warned.

[vital basalt]

there is also this in the in AX's turret lol

[neat crescent]

thats under plate of the back of the turret right? like near the turret ring, or is it the typical kranvagn red pixel thats 500mm lol

[uneven narwhal]

I just had a doubt regarding these Relative WR balance charts
I know how relative WR is calculated but I don't see how good players, those having 70%+ WR at Tier X perform relatively worse in a tank like the Yoh

I get why even bad and average players perform well the tank due to it being very good, but shouldn't that mean that good players should generally perform above WR at Tier with good tanks?

[orchid grove]

There’s probably like 1 guy above 75% who played the Yoh in 8.4, and then only got like a 74% WR in it

[neat crescent]

blame the teams, its very unlikely for someone to go above 80% wr unless theyre cherry playing their tanks, only doing little matches every now and then ( since for whatever reason the first matches daily are always (?)easier than the rest, for me anyways)

[uneven narwhal]

Thank you!

[leaden flare]

It's not a lot of people get the 80% wr but they are tooning and also both very good then 80% isnt too hard but still a nice challenge

[gentle imp]

i hope swedish td will come

[unique scaffold]

The ISU 122S needs a buff
Who agrees with me?

[autumn zodiac]

It needs a touch more HP

[nocturne sun]

Please make a tutoriel to explain that you shouldn't camp in a heavy tank

[neat crescent]

they did

[nocturne sun]

Its not effective at all

[neat crescent]

i mean, ofc it wont be if the ones performing bad dont watch said vid

[cursive schooner]

What tank is that

[rare sleet]

concept 1b

[cursive schooner]

Balanced

[main tulip]

can you calculate whether the 268 v4's thick frontal armor warrants it weighing a whopping 75 tons, which is like 20+ more than the normal 268 and is-8 on which it is based

[rare sleet]

thats harder to calculate because you don't know the sizes of the plates. i roughly estimated the size of the belly plate on the concept 1b using the width and length of the tank

[main tulip]

I just noticed that the concept has 19mm of belly armor on PC lol

[lucid lotus]

It's not like you'd be shooting it in the belly anyways unless the player sucks ballerinos, tank is very flexible and costs a pretty penny, hefty investment for a noob, but ye the belly armor and turret under armor of some tanks is stupidly strong

[neat crescent]

¨RommelTanker [ACTS2] — Today at 7:18 PM
so, a 150 mm plate on a tank like the 1B makes sense
It's supposed to be resistant to anti-tank mines¨ 🤔

[nimble zodiac]

IS-2Sh with 110mm deck armor:
M6A2E1 EXP with 198mm of deck armor:

[terse goblet]

should the kpfzf have the actual 10 degrees of gun depression?
i dont remember the exact name

[neat crescent]

mbt 70?

[terse goblet]

yess

[terse goblet]

yes

[dawn meteor]

ISU-152 need mobility it's geting hard to keep playing with ISU as it is too slow now

[lofty mist]

it goes like 50 does it not

[leaden flare]

Not like it has t10 pen
T10 dpm
Good mobility

Yeah definetly needs a buff

[sleek grove]

autoloaders in general are team dependant, so maybe someone does good damage but the team doesnt help the situation

also, ahem , not throwing hands or sum, but some YT-er may also influence the WR faith as it said the 2 shot gun is better than the 3 shot

[uneven narwhal]

I mean I find the 120mm better for pubs than the 105mm because I can dump in 900 in sub2s and roll back

Others prefer the 3k DPM the 105mm gives
It's really upto personal preferences there imo

[sleek grove]

3 shot clip reloads faster making it less team dependant when u are reloading.
after all im trying to make my tank better for 1v7

[real bison]

because the Kan and the CdA aren’t close or mid range support

they’re long range, and have impressive accuracy and pen for a reason

Buffing their DPM to their tier X MT counterparts would make them busted

High pen, high mobility, high camo, and now high DPM would push these over the boundary

[exotic goblet]

I was so confused lol, cos according to him, he asked the opinion of multiple pro players who said the 2 shot is better. But i have literally never seen the 2 shot in any comp, it was all 3 shots

[sleek grove]

3 shot is better in comp and randoms no matter what.
Firstly, u can track more reliably in case u missed a shot.
Secondly, the dpm.

[exotic goblet]

that is the part im confused about. I don't know which pros he asked

[uneven narwhal]

I never stated that hello what?

Ah I see my bad, sorry

[exotic goblet]

you are not the "him" i'm talking about. The "him" is an youtuber

[lean siren]

mate, 120 has a decent dispersion too, and now the ISU130 has been buffed with an excellent dispersion value (before the 8.O if i remember corectly)... and we will see if it will perform better than 49%WR in the next future with the massive buff it has just received with the HPs. You are encouraging ppl to camp behind with your points, you can't not play long range on all maps you know (himmelsdorf...)
-High pen will help you to win credits as you won't shooot premium rounds offently. This is not a very good point compared to other TDs because TDs have good pen, and if the pen sucks, you have premium ammo as a compensation.
-Mobility is balance with the armor, but as a consequence you are HE-able and there is not too much HPs on those tanks. Basically 3 HEs that don't penetrate will send you back to the garage... there is many tanks with big alpha (WT, RHM, ISU, SU, 704, even the heavies can spash and HE on you and deal decent damage)
-Camo is very decent on the 120gFt
-high DPM is what AMX CDA and Kanonen105 deserve and what they lack in the current meta.
I invite you to follow on Blitzstars the WR of those tanks and you will certainly see Kanonen105 near 49%WR in the next future, just like the ISU130 right now. Surprisingly, ISU130 has been buffed... +25% of HPs !!! It has now 150 more HPs than our 2 new german and french buddies. Wait to see AMX CDA coming in shop for gold to see its WR decreased to 53% before being under 50% just a few months later. Kanonen had 54%Wr when it was in shop.. it is decreasing 😉
Thanks for your words budd, always a pleasure to discuss a little bit about our fav game !

[real bison]

Unlike the 130, the Kan and CdA both have the mobility to keep up with the team. Plus, if the Kan was given its test DPM, you’d have another E25. Except, it now gets an even more accurate gun, better dpm, better pen, better everything actually. Same thing with the CdA.

If anything, I’d rather compare the 2 to the other tier X MT gun wielder, the Charioteer, rather than the blatantly OP 120G. It gives up actual prammo for a turret and HESH. It also has worse armour than both, and less camo. I think that’d be a better comparison point. Additionally, the Kan’s 90d winrate according to Blitzstars is 53.29, compared to the 130’s 49.83

[versed tide]

Not always but normally

[silk hamlet]

ok wg you guys gonna nerf the 268 v4 or what

[upbeat sphinx]

balance : make spall liner a consumable and not a provision, so when you activate it you have protection from he shell, not otherwhise.

[heady laurel]

ZAMN 😍

[silent wing]

Free nitro 👀

[gleaming apex]

RAGE QUIT#6151 was banned

[neat crescent]

its in testing. .-.

[uneven venture]

So many people would hate that.

[upbeat sphinx]

it is too op now, it makes the waffle super strong.
I still cannot believe that it has 1.6k hp, it should be immediately nerfed to 1.5k, just like most of the td at tier 9. It always makes me laugh that a pz iv hull has moe hitpoints than a t 30 which has a tier 7 hull.

[frail silo]

Or
Just remove the provision.

[uneven venture]

More like it makes the waffle more waffle resistant. The tank is super strong anyway. I saw the stats before they added the spall liner. They were still excellent. While I dont agree with balancing tanks using provisions, I dont think balancing gameplay using consumables is any better.

The tanks in that line are typically exceptionally easy to pen with ap at any angle. Having the option to reduce significant damage from HE is something that enjoyers of that line wont want to give up. Otherwise, once they are spotted, will once again singled out and killed early from being so easy to be 2 or 3 shotted to death.

[lean siren]

Not sure if you are getting what i am saying... (sry bud, english is not my mother tongue;)) Comparing CDA and Kanon105 to a E25 is a mystake imho: E25 is a t7 tank and a pew pew gun (not the same concept). I am talking about the concept of a T10 MT gun on a T8 TD because that is what those 2 tanks are. Actually, CDA & K105 don't have the DPM of the T10 MT... and they are far from it. E25 is nothing here, sorry bro. Moreover the Chariotter has a turret so it is not the same gameplay (please don't write me about staying back camp take shots blablbla because that is the easiest thing a player can do with any tank, no need a CDA or K105 for that). I don't see the point to sell premium tanks encouraging players to stay long range camp etc... This gameplay is boring, not to mention that most of the time the battle moves around the map so if you are not a pro camper, and don't know where/when to relocate, you will be useless.
Another point is that even at long range, you get spotted you are dead... you can't trade with meds cos they have an average of 300+ HPs. To conclude, a second time, i note that the Kanonen105 has lost 1point in its WR during the last month, and 18 points since it is not more played by testers. That is what the CDA will get in the next months, i am pretty sure, keep an eye on it
Today, regarding my experience with K105, i very rarely play it alone, always with a good toonmate that will do the good stuff and who i will try to provide a strong and hard cover. It's difficult to me to go on this thema as we would have to write about the other players skills and the MM and that is not the topic. K105 and CDA are very team dependant, it's remarquably rewarding when you do a great game, but they would be better tank with a slightly more DPM (at least 3k). I don't see the point of buying the AMX CDA or the K105 because of this. THey need to be stronger on the BF and get the ability to deal a little bit more dmg as they don't forgive at all.

[hoary quail]

That is the most ridiculous thing i've heard so far lmao

[frail silo]

or maybe, just maybe.
play the tanks the way they are intended?
concealed gameplay? snipers? ambush? anything but direct confrontation.
you shouldn't be able to be in enemies sight anyway.

[real bison]

Firstly: the E25 has 3k dpm with rammer

The Kan has 2.7k with rammer

Secondly, I’m not comparing the concept of the Chari vs Kan & CdA. I’m comparing their guns. Kan and CdA get far more flexible guns, while the Chari cannot reliably play against heavies.

Giving it the 3.6k of the Leo 1 would be the worst idea ever. It would become the “pew pew” tank. Same thing with the CdA. The reason it’s winrate was high in testing was not only due to the fact better players were testing, but that it had the 2nd best DPM for tier 8 TDs. The best DPM belongs to the AT 15, and that has to load prammo in order to pen as much as the KanJpz can. That meant it would rip apart anything, coupled with the high pen, not much could stand in its way.

Thirdly. In no way the Kan or CdA can viably support their team at close -mid range. They are not made for it. In fact, the concept behind these tanks was to have a long range support tank. You are supposed to choose one guy, and hit 2 accurate shots, to make it easier for your teammates to kill them. They don’t have the carry potential of the 120G, because they aren’t the 120G. I rather compared it to the Charioteer not only due to the gun similarity, but the fact that all 3 cannot at all play without support. You would obviously find more success if you were to platoon, especially with a player who can make use of your support.

“I hate camping and staying at the back”

Unfortunately, that’s how the tanks were designed. It’s your own lack of adaptability to a playstyle that makes the tank bad in your eyes.

[lean siren]

E25 has better dpm than Kan and CDA... that's a point for more dpm.
Chari can not play reliably against heavies... I would say frontally, but you have a Comet hull so you can go to the flanks to shoot your HESH, and there is a turret on that tank, it helps a lot.
Regarding the 3.6DPM: I would love to see a 3.6k DPM on the Kan of course but let's be serious, it would just encourage players to camp behind and farm dmg. But a 3k dpm would make this tank more effective and less outdated but 120G FT.
You get a point on the how the tanks are designed in Blitz. I have understood that you are talking about the guns comparison and the playstyle of the Kan and CDA. I was talking about the concept of a t10med gun with t10 DPM, and you think it would be too much for blitz... Between 2.7kDPM and 3.6kDPM we could be agree on a solid 3k DPM, couldn't we ? 🙂
To finish i have never written this tank is bad in my eyes coz i like to play it: imo it is NOT a tank for all but only for players who want something different, more elitist amore challenging, a tank like IRMA_BECX Spirit, for very few and exclusive players. I still think that if WG wants to make it more reliable it should get a dpm buff at least to provide 1 more shoot in a minute and give this tank a 3kdpm, same for CDA. We will see how things will come but i see the Kan stats decreasing :/
Very nice to talk with you mate 😉 @real bison

[orchid grove]

Having tested the Kjpz, I’ll just say that it was balanced. The tank needs its DPM back (or some of it back at the very least)

And you can totally second line support. The gun depression and low profile allows you to quick peek some hills when people aren’t looking, and surprisingly, I was getting some bounces somehow too.

As it stands right now, at the minimum kjpz and CDA 105 certainly need DPM buffs. They’re both just flat out worse than the Skorpion at sniping, as Skorpion gets a very meaty 460 alpha, more DPM, and even a turret, and the DPM on Kjpz/CDA 105 is so bad that even mediums like Revalorise and Pershing are similar in DPM output, but have the flexibility of mediums

[frail silo]

<@&481447501690568709>

[iron flume]

What’s ur point over here

[twin egret]

<@&481447501690568709>

[sleek grove]

Holy this nitro scam still going

[gleaming apex]

! Scp049TheSoulStealer#1074 was banned

[tender drift]

Well

Gj

[lean siren]

L M A O

Kanonen105 had a 53.31%WR TODAY AT 11:02 ON BLITZSTARS.... Now, 19:28 (GMT) it has 53,29%WR !!!!!

I am writting it is decreasing, but that fast !!! om g lol

[remote oriole]

I disagree that the Kanonenjagdpanzer is a camping tank.

In real life, yes, but in Blitz a camping tank is mainly characterised by alpha.

However, it is true that the Kanonenjagdpanzer is being played extraordinarily passive and damage oriented. However, it should also be noted that more aggressive play generally leads to better performance, as killing tanks and actively posing a danger to the enemy tends to have a more profound impact on winning than just sitting in the back and taking a shot every so often.

As harsh as it sounds, but a Kanonenjagdpanzer that is dead after three minutes on average contributes more than a Kanonenjagdpanzer that survives the entire game.

Statistics clearly show that the best performing players die early, that means that they don‘t camp and actively create shooting opportunities that are eventually their undoing.

In fact, the statistics are particularly damning concerning camping oriented gameplay, usually attributing it to 50%-55%ers (players who have that winrate in tier eight).

You can find the stats I used here:
https://blitzanalysiz.com/update/8.4/tanks/8/all/22545/

To cut it short, playing the Kanonenjagdpanzer as a camper is not playing it to its strengths

The most effective tactic seems to be to let the enemy engage friendlies and then working them down with swift, unexpected snapshots from flanking positions.

A keyword would be mobile warfare, and to be honest higher dpm wouldn‘t really benefit that (it would change the playstyle to damage dealing).

In my opinion it‘s best to just leave the tank as it is as it has a truly unique playstyle (alongside the CdA, apparently) which is perfect for players that look for something different, and not necessarily strong. And I believe that the Kanonenjagdpanzer as a premium tank is optimal to be chosen for such a role

[upbeat sphinx]

buff the 5a, it is just a worst is 7. Give it more gd, and better frontal armour.
it does not make any sense now to play now after the is7 remodel

[main tulip]

It's not really supposed to be an IS-7 competitor, so I disagree with the gun depression and armor. What it needs is more heat pen and DPM

[thick rover]

For me I think it could do with HEAT pen and at least the upper glacis small armour buff because it's really useless

[safe rapids]

People these days keep thinking that if its a premium, it must be better than the tech tree tank. The 5A is a fine, strong vehicle. If people think the IS-7 is strong, then so is the 5A.

[nimble zodiac]

But I didn't see WZ get buffed when IS-7 did :p
Not to mention it mangaed to have worse prammo than IS-7 without CS

303 vs 303 @neat crescent both without CS
IS-7 has APCR, making it more effective

I'm just saying it's better than WZ's HEAT, where did VK 90 come into this? And 303 APCR is good enough to penetrate those tanks with

I've always ran rammer with IS-7, it's fine :p

[neat crescent]

without pramo is7 has 299 apcr IIRC, wz 111 5A has 303 heat, and 333 with CS,while is7 has 318, then why even say its worse when its the same numerically?, yeah but 303 apcr isnt any different than a 289 ap pen round from a vk90, apcr only gets 2 degrees of shell normalization, if it was any better then i would at least agree its ¨better¨, agaisnt tanks like a e100 that apcr without CS isnt penning the turret or a is4s front plate, etc,, then try running an is7 without CS and shooting the usually easy pens with CS spots vs the super heavys or good heavys, not vs a hulldown e100, or a vk72

[nimble zodiac]

Look, APCR is, by nature, better than HEAT given the same penetration value because of the normalization and lack of dying to spaced armor

These differences are negligible but APCR still gets the benefit of the three caliber rule and spaced armor penetration, not to mention a fast shell velocity

My argument here is that 303 APCR was better than 303 HEAT, but you guided it to 303 APCR is better than 333 HEAT

(Oh and the lack of covering the VK 72 was just laziness, I meant to show a hulldown situation as you've kind of worded such)

[neat crescent]

i mean, heat also gets the three caliber rule, any shell does, except hesh/he ofc(i believe?), it gets a fast shell velocity but also a highly increased penetration loss over distance unless using a certain equipment slot, when compared to ap and other types of shells that lose pen over distance, that which HEAT doesnt, 333 HEAT is still better overall than 318 apcr over most distances, up close its as good as ap with high pen but slightly worse, but overall heat will perform better vs targets in most situations, as seen in the pics above and possibly in game, a tank like the is7 will most likely not end up in good situations agaisnt tanks running enhanced armor or using a part of their brains, though wz with a meds heat pen isnt in a entirely superior spot, will still have the upper hand vs some spots which apcr wont/cant pen, oh right, spaced armor, all it does is reduce the shells potential penetration value, and that really depends on the spot where you´re shooting at ( the action X for example, which some tanks with Heat can pen the turret even on the plates when looking at the sides a bit, and quite a few tanks and spots on some tanks have a good or reliable spaced armor part so, unless theres a big brain fart i doubt anyone will be shooting heat right at a spaced armor part, though it does happen)., just overall the wz 111 5a with its almost med like heat pen seems to have better chances running CS than a is7 with CS with apcr

[nimble zodiac]

1. HEAT does not have the three caliber rule, like HE/SH. It simply doesn't auto-ricochet at 70 degrees, which makes it look like overmatching
2. The shell velocity of HEAT tends to be slow
3. HEAT struggles a ton getting through tracks and the gun (in case of gun blocking in a facehug) because the distance before it hits the main armor is so extended, which is HEAT's main nightmare
4. IS-7 will struggle, but WZ will struggle too if that's the case, so it used CS to try and help, but against heavies, it almost does nothing because the effective pen range to up many heavies is over 340
5. HEAT is worse than APCR, that's why CS did +10% to it and HE because of the lack of vital normalization

[neat crescent]

1-really? guess thats a curious thing to find out, 2-i mean, im p. damn sure 1k shell velocity at t10 and upwards is more than enough and no tanks have a shell slower than that, well, most of em. 3- well i mean, depending on the angle all types of shells can be annoyed by tracks, its just that heat is always or, almost always being absorbed by tracks when the entry angle doesn't even connect anywhere near the main armor and the shells pen capability is lost, mind you all shells just get absorbed by the gun/mantles,theres no discrimination there, unless its he/hesh splashing the gun always takes the full shot as module damage regardless of shell type. 4- fair enough. 5- still cant agree with that part there

[nimble zodiac]

1.2: Yup, can’t be too sure of every penetration mechanic in the game, but you gotta work with that you have
2.2: I spoke generally for that, it gets painful in lower tiers
3.2: HEAT not only loses the same as AP and APCR, it also loses more penetration over smaller distances after hitting them
4.2: Y e a h
5.2: APCR is literally HEAT that can overmatch and deal with spaced armor / external modules better. HEAT has CS so it at least can gain a raw penetration advantage for generally flat plates. It’s inherently worse than APCR without that CS advantage

[neat crescent]

3-2. yep since heat basically is shrapnel of the shell after exploding into whatever it hits it loses way more pen than a shell simply going through a track without blowing up. 2-2. im aware cough cough lepkz m41. 5-2. i guess the issue with wz specifically is that its got the heat pen of a med, and not that of an is4/e5/wz113, etc. if it were a regular 340 with CS then it would truly be above apcr, since most tanks running apcr suffer from a deadly disease and that is, apcr rounds capped at below 350mm pen, usually,in which case they usually do perform worst then heat penning tough spots, with cs or just the bare pen since heat pen values are usually crazy, and only a few tanks got apcr over 350mm 🤔

[nimble zodiac]

Ho-Ri is the true god of penetration over Jageroo and 268 because it simply has AP shells as prammo, which is inherently, like APCR, better than HEAT

E3/4 as well as some brit TDs have better APCR than 350mm afaik, probably a few more tanks do too

My entire argument here is that IS-7 has better prammo, given the stats and mechanics, than WZ 5A

And about penetrating past 70 degrees with HEAT, still no normalization so you have to deal with the whole effectiveness of the plate you hit :p

[uneven narwhal]

HEAT is easily worse than APCR
One of the 2 advantages it's got over APCR is it's ability to attempt to penetrate upto 85° of angled armor

The only other advantage is the extra penetration gained on CS
A 300mm pen APCR round would go upto 315mm but a 300mm HEAT round would go upto 330mm

It barely covers the advantages that APCR gives; 2 CR (mainly this), 3 CR, normalisation, better shell velocity, ability to pass through destructibles, spaced armor and tracks are much lesser of a problem for it

@neat crescent When comparing two rounds you essentially have to consider them having the same base penetration IMO
It's an unfair comparison to compare a 340mm Base HEAT round to a 320mm APCR

[midnight fable]

One more advantage of heat is it doesn't have pen loss over distance.
But yeah I'd take apcr any day.

[leaden flare]

Not like you loose a ton of pen on Blitz maps so that's basically non existent

[fallow eagle]

Wz111 5a needs a dpm buff

[remote oriole]

HEAT doesn‘t ricochet at all in this game unlike on PC (just shoot a Grille or smth at almost 90 degrees)

Pen loss only starts after the first 100 metres which means that you usually get like 2-5% loss at 200 metres which is between 4-10mm of pen for a round with 200mm of pen which usually doesn‘t make much of a difference

[uneven narwhal]

I know
I just said "attempt to penetrate upto 85deg" because above 85 deg, you just get a non penetrating shot no matter the armor values since HEAT doesn't normalise and isn't subject to 2CR and 3CR

Tested it out myself with two others in a training room a while back

[fluid heart]

why are you all happy about the lowe and maus comparison, you know that the lowe isnt even a purchasable tank anymore.... right...

[frail silo]

it is still purchasable, just through deals in the store rather than the techtree. you have to wait for those deals.

[empty flint]

personally
i dont think yalls should make these so called subclasses
because youre pushing certain tanks into one box, and that ruins some tanks
or look at some other tanks for example
the Bobject 268/V4 has an utterly broken armour profile

[neat crescent]

its in testing...., its STILL in testing

[empty flint]

in that case
NERF IT

[twin fulcrum]

They don't change the characteristics of tanks until after they have been tested.

[unique scaffold]

Ye let's give it 3k dpm 🤡

[fallow eagle]

I would say it should have like 200 more dpm then is7 but 3k is fine by me

[neat crescent]

183 isnt getting nerfed 🤔 ???

[empty nexus]

Eh, personally I find it A good tank, I personally am very fond of it, so with that bias in mind I wouldn’t mind if it got buffed 😂. Maybe a 100 DPM buff and like 7mm of HEAT pen buff? 303–> 310 and 2601-> 2701 with Rammer

@neat crescent I’ve heard the 183 is becoming taller? If so it’ll be easier to hit, and it can’t hide as effectively so it’s PBR is like a double edged sword

[unique scaffold]

Nah i was just joking 😂 5a is a good tank as it is

[quasi axle]

Doubt

[nimble zodiac]

They probably meant KV-2

[twin egret]

True and false

[drowsy plaza]

Years ago. Tanks would finish tests and come back if changes where needed. The AMX 30B is a prime example. Having gone through 3 different testing periods. Now WG usually leaves then in test and changes then over an update. But there are exceptions.

[sleek grove]

Usually tanks that are in easy events with high completion probability by all types of players don't get buffed or nerfed, but when there are new tanks coming in crates, oh boy prepare to see broken stats

[remote oriole]

<@&481447501690568709> Phishing? Yes, definitely phishing

[gleaming apex]

Demong#3820 was banned

[versed tide]

5a I think needs some love though

[twin egret]

FV215b needs more love

[unique scaffold]

imo it's pretty balanced, it has an good turret armor and a good gun depression to counter the "bad" hull armor

[quasi axle]

It's basically a worse is7 at this point

[oak marlin]

same on console tbh. but they have QL with 560 alpha and same statistics as 5a and a 9s reload 🙂

[unique scaffold]

what should they buff on it then? and STILL make it a balanced tank

[nimble zodiac]

If you're going to buff it, do NOT make it better than IS-7, as that would be OP

@quasi axle I wish the entire population contributing to this discussion knew that

[quasi axle]

I think that goes without saying!

[reef fable]

DeathStar is gonna be OP in the next update! That armor change! But ofc the gun isn't the best apart from having the highest alpha in the game.

[neat crescent]

bruh just let me say you´re gonna be dissapointed, that turret isnt even as strong as promised 😂 trust me when you see the update drop, a leopard 1 running cali can pen the entire thing, aiming at the turret/hull with apcr

[reef fable]

Lol, guess il take my time with grinding the DeathStar then and enjoy the insane bounces I get while playing the Hori 😜

[nimble zodiac]

I have big doubts about that Leo will pen every part

[neat crescent]

im guessing you werent in the testing server, bc if u were u wouldve noticed, how weak it is, in same altitude, like not above or below you, the leopard running CS looked at a grey turret frontally, i even streamed it that day and showed people how weak it was

[nimble zodiac]

I'm just being picky about auto-ricos and whatnot :p

[dense yoke]

i don't know about guys, but i mainly use standard shell on Is7. I think 273 pen does the job in many scenarios.

[thin ermine]

obv if u can pen with standard you use standard this goes for any tank

[leaden flare]

No just shoot prammo at light tanks😂 to secure the pen

[versed mural]

lol full health

[main tulip]

60tp moment

[real bison]

I mean, the IS-7 prammo is actually sometimes needed for shooting at faster moving targets

[sleek grove]

faster shell velocity is not a big game changer for 100m
if u want to shoot at a full speed light tank @ over 300m, with your is7, then ur doing smth wrong

[main tulip]

Not necessarily, sometimes both teams split and let's say your side just cleared out the enemy heavies, you start moving over to support your mediums when all of a sudden you have a shot on the enemy light trying to run away, and suddenly you have to take a very long range shot
it happens all the time, and not because you're camping in an is-7

[nimble zodiac]

Which of course could be solved by leading your shot effectively, unless you lack the time before they zoom into cover, where only APCR can catch their rear before they do

[winged barn]

Supercharge go brrrrr

[fossil spruce]

when wg will improve 60tp ammorack module?

[sharp saddle]

Never, because the tank is already good and doesn’t need further improvements

[wide dawn]

Just use Improved Modules 👍

[sleek grove]

just dont drive broadside to the enemy tanks

[full token]

good luck doing that all the time

[empty nexus]

I’ve only ever been ammoracked once in 60TP, and that was when a Grille shot the back of my turret. Never from the drive wheel and it’s been roughly 50 games

[sleek grove]

since i got 183 i started to ammorack tanks, even 60tps , but still is7 are happening more often

[finite prawn]

My guy, one question... what was the reason to nerf the T-54 Ltwt's turret cheeks?

[nimble zodiac]

The remodel simply changed it, sure they were involved in changing the thickness values for parts of the cheeks, but it has a low effect on the tank’s performance

[drowsy plaza]

Wasn’t a real nerf. It is what it was always in game. You just see it now.

[safe rapids]

They made the cheeks bigger with the remodel but the armor value did actually go up I believe. It’s just flatter now but honestly there isn’t much of a difference.

[frozen shard]

can the match maker be better

[uneven narwhal]

Can you be?

[prisma jetty]

Can you read the pins?

[crisp plinth]

.

[sleek grove]

Why don't u use your ender eyes to get to the end and throw yourself in the void for this question

[gleaming apex]

Stiggy777#3621 was banned

[young atlas]

Why is maus slower than leopard 1, it doesnt make sense

[mental pasture]

Why is water made of water? It doesn't make sense!

[young atlas]

leopard has more armor than maus, so maus need more speed, its so inbalanced, water is balanced in diet

[neat crescent]

i love how this comment reduce anyones IQ by 10 just by looking at it, oh god the comment he posted above is even better 😂

[wide dawn]

@neat crescent 0 iq moment

[mental pasture]

God damn, If both teams average is more than 51%, where the hell did the game take those 2%?

[winged barn]

Rerolling-> low stat accounts abandoned

Noobs getting stomped-> low stat accounts abandoned

Higher wr players (generally more involved in playing the game) will probably stick around longer than noobs

And the sample size is also pretty small

[prisma jetty]

We need to just get a massive community project together to get a large sample size

[uneven narwhal]

^
I would've gladly done more, but the fact that I have to manually enter every single WR is a pain, those 100 matches alone are 1400 entries
If anyone wishes to do the project, I would gladly DM you a blank excel sheet with everything already labelled so you just have to enter the WRs or send it here if you fear it may be a virus or smth which is totally understandable

[remote oriole]

I think there was something like that

[hearty steeple]

Jylpah did that iirc. For random battles and then for mad games

[mental pasture]

Makes sense

[rich pike]

Sort you joke of a mm out , losing 5,6,7, -0 if this is not unbalanced or rigging I don't know what is ,what a mess .

[neat crescent]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/502016925405151234/919268704888455268/Screenshot_20211207-165025.png

[lucid lotus]

ARL44 nerf when 😎? While its kool for tech tree tanks to be competitive, the ARL has taken it to another level with it's gun

[fluid topaz]

It's not the same now with the 40 tp

[nimble zodiac]

SO nerf both of them <3

[rare sleet]

play 1,000 battles and I bet you aint losing all 1000 battles fool. Such a small sample size cannot be logically used as an argument against matchmaking being rigged.
Also why would MM be rigged against you and everyone that complains about it. Why do you think you're so special? Does your brain automatically assume your some important being that has to be rigged against in battles because your so powerful? Can you not comprehend and realize that maybe, just maybe that you aren't playing well enough and some battles are bound to be losses either way? Or no I guess you can't comprehend that fact and its definitely the games fault you lose because you probably think hey I shouldn't be allowed to lose battles because im so great.

[next quail]

Why i still see bots in mm at 5k battles. I had a tiger 2 with 32 k battles but with 39% win rate. He also had 4000 battles in the kv 3 which is super weird. 400dmg average dmg per game. Meanwhile: smasher in the enemy team and an obj 252u

[uneven narwhal]

That's not a bot lol, that's an actual player

If you refer to bots as bad players then you're always going to find them
Please stop cherry-picking one or two games where you lost to complain about MM

[mild minnow]

It's about rye
It's about flour
We stay hungry. We devour
We put in the work, we put in the dough.
And we eat the bread

[thick rover]

Hmmm does the VK72 need a buff

[leaden flare]

Ammorack durability

[hushed kelp]

This game needs serious upgrades in match-making, the games are all 7-0 wins or 7-0 losses. So boring and angering

[neat crescent]

0 days since another MM issue .... 🤔 ^^@hushed kelp^^

[hushed kelp]

oh lol

[next quail]

Can wg buff the view range of the 122 foch a bit. I got spotted by a fv 4005 he shot me and i still couldnt see him. That 122 little tutel couldnt see a 10 meter tank in a bush

[sleek grove]

Moving target vs a stationary TD, wonder what isn't balanced in this
Also that 4005 may know what pulling behind the bush before shooting means.

[elfin wing]

Well, some other player might also spot you for that fv, just sayin'.

[fallow eagle]

What do you guys think of obj 263?
I don't see them often in battle to know about their performance

[thick rover]

For me I don't really like the gun handling now but I'm not sure how to balance it after getting the traverse and armour buff

[gleaming apex]

1Grumpy_old_tanker(Grumpt)#8917 was muted

Parzival#5308 was muted

[versed tide]

263 is fine as is

[hearty steeple]

Yep. I don't like it anymore. But it is fine as it is

[west fulcrum]

Has anyone else's RNG for mm got worse since update 8.5 I went from over 54% win rate to just over 51% wr since update. Almost every match my team gets steam rolled I understand not ever match is good but now it's only every now and then that I can get a decent mm and it's not til 3am est

[nimble zodiac]

It’s a coincidence, don’t talk about it here.

Okay don’t even thumbs down because you lost games. If everyone got worse MM, the one that applies to everyone, then everyone would lose more, right? Nope.

Side note, at least for me, I feel I win more in the morning because I’m rather calm at that time, so I won’t be tilted that much and focus on my losses

[sleek grove]

https://tenor.com/view/simply-a-difference-skill-simply-a-difference-in-skill-gif-21335337

[mental pasture]

I cannot manage to play well all the time, thus said, I must blame a company that doesn't even know my existence or a totally random value

[west fulcrum]

Not blaming WG found out my MM was glitched I wrote a ticket they fixed my account so won't have anymore troubles

[nimble zodiac]

🤨

[elfin wing]

This channel is for TANK BALANCE.

This channel is not for complaining about matchmaking.

[sleek grove]

Glitched as in?

[winged barn]

He bought the premium matchmaking bundle, but it wasn't giving him the premium matchmaking

[unique scaffold]

Stop discussing matchmaking in this channel.

[indigo knot]

They should rename it to "tank balance discussion"
Balance discussion in itself is flawed name where anything related to balance be it MM or other stuff will be talked about and there is no description too anywhere regarding channels....no wonder those how are not frequent on this server or on discord will use this channel a place to complain about MM

[full token]

instead the specific topic of the channel is placed in the pinned messages

[uneven narwhal]

That would work if people read the pinned message
No one reads the channel desc either, let alone the pinned

Although I hate MM complaints anywhere in general, I don't see how a person who's not very well versed with this server could see any place other than this channel or perhaps #909765977363845140 to complain about MM

[fallow eagle]

When is wg to change the "balance" Of t7
Alot people that i talked to or listened to said and know that t7 is almost unplayable
If you're not playing smasher or annihilator,you're already at a disadvantage
Don't tell me it's just my issue
Smasher and annihilator have tracks to go around the map as well as a team to help them,telling me to just avoid them or flank them doesn't change the fact that these tanks are broken
I would like to go down the tier and start grinding my tanks as it used to be fun
Now as a f2p I can't buy smasher or annihilator to compete them
Even fully equipping my tanks doesn't give me a big advantage to compete with them
I use free xp and avoid playing t7 or lower just so I don't have to deal with them

[upbeat sphinx]

remove double smasher platoons from the game.
one is already op enough.

[unique scaffold]

pls WG pls do anything with this tank, it's so hardcore unbalanced. U can not even pen this thing with Gold it's so frustrating

[uneven narwhal]

Welcome to WG :D

[remote oriole]

Where tanks look like a tomato, and there‘s nothing you can do

[unique scaffold]

It didn't receive the changes from this last test period so wait till it come out, there's a good chance they'll nerf the lower plate and the cheeks

[carmine smelt]

can Grille 15 get a camo rating buff? it's completely useless without it and therefore can't fulfill the camping role.

[neat crescent]

its in testing.... you guys really want me to repeat this until they release the tank in shop right?, do people not understand the concept of testing, or seen broken in-testing tanks before?

[upbeat sphinx]

Can someone explain to me why the Turtle mk 1 exist?
The armour is not existent, gun handling way worst than the tech tree counterparts, and the mobility is virtually on par with the tech tree which has a way better armour.
Give it at least 30 km/h, just like the buffed badger.
If this is sold in auction then stay away from it.

[sleek grove]

id call that a balanced tank, with pennable armor, nice gun and bad speed .ez

[neat crescent]

^, no need to have the mentality that EVERY tank needs to be op if it costs anything even 5$, while you may want your money to be worth it, its also needed to think of game balance

[upbeat sphinx]

the gun is not nice.
it has the a slight better performances than the tier 6 gun carrier.
Yes a tier 6 has comparable stats than a tier 8.

[sleek grove]

so, not every tank has to be outright broken , thats why reviews exists and thats why you should watch before u buy

[winged barn]

There is this thing called balanced, and the turdle is nowhere near it.

[empty nexus]

Thing is, the reason people are unhappy is because we want value for money, and average tanks for $20 IS NOT value for money. Personally I don’t mind tho, I wait until the good tanks are cheaper/affordable and then I buy em.

[neat crescent]

i will admit that its lacking but if you think of it this way, premiums were initially meant to be worse stats wise tanks than tech tree with extra cred earning, in that sense turtle fits, and by no means its underperforming, in my opinion at the very least, i dont suggest buying it, yes, but some people do prefer the tank in its current state, the armor could be buffed a little bit to balance out the other bad stats but otherwise its not as bad for people used to its playstyle. well but 🤷‍♂️ perhaps it will get buffed, just gotta wait. > @empty nexus thats precisely the bad mentality that keeps prems op and unbalanced vs tech trees, and the endless buff/nerf cycle, for 20$ i would expect a strong tank like the obj 252u,with a strong armor but nothing else remarkable, not a broken one like lets say the concept 1b an all rounder, good at everything,, tanks bought with $ shouldnt really overcome tech trees so easily, honestly 🤔 <

[upbeat sphinx]

@sleek grove look for yourself.

[elfin wing]

What did that image show us? If you only look at the "colors" you might say stuff but other than that those tanks are not comparable.

[sleek grove]

2500 dpm and calls it bad smh 💀

[frail silo]

the tank is below average, and ya'll call it balanced lmao

lol, @neat crescent using your logic the AT 15 is worse than the turtle.
nice joke.

[neat crescent]

what surprises me more is the fact that this man is only comparing mobility there lol and t6s vs t8 too, every other aspect the t8 wins.> below ¨average¨ the wr% doesnt seem to say the same vs similarly designed tanks and fellow brit tanks @frail silo<

[unique scaffold]

All test tanks whick I saw was balanced and NOT so OP

[frail silo]

AT 15 > Ferdi > Turtle
also player count, lmao.
it is reasonable to make it balanced, it is also reasonable to make it worse than techtree counterparts. or at least equal.
but it is below average. not balanced.

[neat crescent]

oh really, have you seen the concept 1b in testing, before it was BUFFED, it was already strong, testing amx 30b?, obj 268 v4 right now? dont spout bs my man, everyone with 2 brain cells, knows how broken prems/collectors usually come when in their super test state, cant lie to my face like that and just get away with it man, amx m4 54, LT-432 before their armor nerfs during test,etc, just look at blitzhangar update previews and you will see some tanks stats when they were in testing and just how broke they were, think a bit better you say something alright?

[remote oriole]

Lol, even Wargaming admits that they make the testing tanks „a bit op… or really op“

[upbeat sphinx]

it is obvious that a tier 8 has better stats than a tier 6. But this is not the point.
The point is that the gun of the Turtle is comparable, tier by tier, to a tier 6 td. Only the gun, not the rest of tank.

As about the comparison you drew out, i will make some considerations. The gun compared to the other td's has the lowest alpha, only the at 15 has a worst alpha (if the dpm gun is selected), and the dpm is in between the other tds. Then the dispersion is the worst out of all the tanks.
I don't understand why you placed a charioteer in the comparison as despite being british it has nothing in common to the slow assault td. Despite the speed the Turtle has a giant weak spot on the front that can be penned by tier 7 heavies. Only tier 7 mediums can bounce you.
At least other assault td have better armour profiles, which are essential for the role, even the outdated Ferdi has a superstructure that is about 220 mm, so at least not pennable by low penetrating mediums, i.e. Chinese and American ones. This does not mean than the other tds have impenetrable armours, but at least they are better than the Turtle.

[neat crescent]

k cool man, nice, neat, yeah, ok, alright, understandable, okay, esta bien, 👌, 👍 , at15 and turtle, they´re not meant to be similar, they´re 2 different tanks, whether one is better than the other or not is up to the players, there may be a huge gap in players but hey 🤷‍♂️ t28 a buffed tech tree which was said to be op is under performing with just 500 more players than turtle mk1, which could be said to be a similar tank to turtle, just with the extra armor step, that turtle didn't take, EDIT: the thing you guys dont seem to realize is that turtle out of all the tanks above has better gun handling stats than the other tanks, in almost all aspects, the camo is worse out of them all, and tds, as usual have bad spotting range, the turtle doesnt fall under the same category as the tds you´re trying to compare them to, if anything its meant to do support work and shoot from afar, if you´re using it to brawl due to your own mistake in comparing it to the other brit option the at 15 then thats your mistake the 155 players using turtle right now prob know this though, if you wanna make it a diff class of tank then thats on you not me 🤷‍♂️, its armored just enough that it doesnt get HEd easily for a passive play

[frail silo]

t28 is said to be OP?
AT 15 is definitely better than the turtle.
if you talk about the pea shooter setting them apart then i would still rank ferdi higher than the turtle.

[real bison]

not like we can show WG our disapproval before it comes out

[prisma jetty]

“at15 and turtle, they’re not meant to be similar”. This is just plain false. Both have fast firing guns, bad mobility, and should both have workable armor. They serve the same role in the battle field, armored, frontline dpm.

[unique scaffold]

That's exactly what I was trying to say

@real bison it's not like they will hear our opinion, otherwise what's the point of testing with a small amount of players?

[empty nexus]

Yes but it’s subconscious. If every tank costed $20 you would only buy the strongest ones right? Why aren’t you buying the weaker ones? Toxic purchasing behavior. Even you said you’re expecting something strong. I always buy the better deal, You can’t shame people for things you do yourself. When a tank costs money you expect it to be good, and if you disagree with me go spend 10k gold on the Chi ki nu or whatever it was called

[remote oriole]

Meanwhile me who literally specifically goes for weak tanks

[upbeat sphinx]

especially if you need to do missions, 1st class mastery for turtle is only 1.050 exp.

[prisma jetty]

I just leave the ones that are harder to take out for last. No sense in leaving guns in the game when they can easily be taken out 🤷‍♂️

[remote oriole]

Thank you for sharing that valuable piece of information with me

[real bison]

Why would they?

It’s better than saying nothing. Just hoping for it won’t exactly will it into existence

[full token]

well he didnt specify what tanks he's seen

[ocean plover]

Why is the T14 so useless?

[unique scaffold]

Idk but maybe it's because it has to be

[brittle cradle]

trash armor that feels more like a med, and a good damaging gun but bad pen

[fluid topaz]

It's frontal hull armor is decent imo

[mental pasture]

T14 is my tank with the highest number of aces so I may be biased here, but it's actually very good as a second line heavy and sidescraper

The armor works well if you drive froward in an angle of 45 degrees, it's gun if very fast and the acceleration is fairly acceptable. If I could compare it to a tier X, it'd be a Chieftain Mk6 that can sidescrape

[spice whale]

I think kv 2 need some little buff on Premium Pen on his Derp gun bec its useless when he face Smasher or even tier 7 medium

[neat crescent]

i wouldnt compare it to that, i would call it a heavium and call it a day,simple as that

[nimble zodiac]

Powercrept.

Done.

[mental pasture]

Well, T14 is good at hull down in therms of gun depression even tho the turret have some weakspots, good acceleration for a heavy, untrustworthy hull, doesn't have a great penetration for it's type and neither a very good max speed when compared to other heaviums. Looks like a Chieftain Mk6 to me.

A tier 6 with low pen derp gun unable to compete with tier 7 tank? Not surprised at all.@spice whale

[wet bramble]

Should Kran DPM be buffed?

[unique scaffold]

No

[twin egret]

No, it already has like good enough dpm, like 2700~ or something

[wet bramble]

Isn't it 1986 DPM?

[nimble zodiac]

Yeah it's not 2.7k definitely, unless perhaps you count a loaded clip

[uneven narwhal]

The 1986 is when you empty the mag, reload it completely, and then fire completely
Essentially, when you play it like a traditional autoloader

[sick crest]

Please buff the Type 59’s Dpm,
8.3s for 280 alpha is terribly bad for the meta T8 tanks today such as Action 10,Progetto 46, chimera

Its an Okay tank, but the dpm is just really bad

[sleek grove]

It's an OK tank so make use of the OK parts of it

[sick crest]

Not as easy as you say it’
It has been power creeped

[stiff edge]

it doesnt need a buff
it had its time to shine, now its over

[unique scaffold]

Guys, hear me out. The power gap is just too huge in tier 1-5.

Let's start with tier 5. If you're up against tier 6, you come up against ARL's, KV-1S, KV-2 Bromwell, Jg Pz IV, and all that. Now imagine you're in your dinky tier 5 medium with 700-ish HP. 1 shot from an 85-90mm gun and that's 30% of your health gone and guess what? They reload just as fast as you, if not even faster (for 160 alpha guns). Since you only do 160 alpha, it's gonna take you at least 5 shots (with a high roll) in order to beat them but that's most likely not gonna happen with the 500-ish DPM difference.

It's not any better for the tier 5 heavies too. While yes, the BDR and T1 Heavy have superb armor profiles, the same set of rules apply and if you're up against the KV-1S or the ARL? GG. They're not gonna struggle penning you at all while taking off huuuuge chunks of your 700 HP pool while you have to aim at their weak spots, doing 160-200 per shot. Even one of the lowest dpm heavies, the KV-1S at 1566, outclasses your dpm.

But if tier 5 gets reworked, then the power gap between tier 4 and 5 will be even larger than it already is. Most tier 4-5 battles hinge on tier 5 heavies. And if both sides have the same amount, you better pray to God that your heavy players know what they're doing, especially if you're in a medium, even more so if you're in a tier 4 medium. Just try beating an equally-skilled T1 heavy when you're in an M7. You'll struggle to pen it while the heavy pens you, no problem at all. "Oh but the TD's have better pen." Try beating a T1 Heavy in a Hetzer then. One ram with 1 (maybe 2) shot and you're dead while all you can do is probably get 1 shot off.

But! If THAT happens, tier 3 and 4 will have a bigger power gap, so that means WG needs to rework tier 3. (Imagine going up against a Matilda or Hezter in a BT-7) But then, tier 3 and tier 2 will have a bigger power gap too (Pz. III against any of the tier 2's) This goes to show how messed up tiers 1-5 is.

[sick crest]

Calm down with the msg lol’

Tier 1-5 doesnt really need changes its the easiest part of the grind T6 is fine
That is also the reason why Wg removed Crew mastery in T5 you just grind it and leave them

[sleek grove]

Haven't fully read it but I think it's skill issue

[full token]

Everything’s a skill issue

[remote oriole]

Tier one to five are kind of poorly balanced (you usually have a handful of extremely strong tanks and a vast majority of average tanks) since WG decided to revert many aspects of the 5.5 rework, but because WG at the same time utterly obliterated the lower tiers playerbase nobody really cares

[upbeat sphinx]

there is a jump too great between hp in tier 5 and 6.
tier 5 have around 700/800.
Tier 6 33% more averaging 1.2k hp.

[sleek grove]

T1 to t5 usually takes 2 days for a new player, and almost nothing to an experienced one, not worth the rebalance

[unique scaffold]

Well I'll give you the gist with a few examples:
ARL against any tier 5 (yes, even the T1 Heavy and BDR)
Tier 6 meds against tier 5 meds
T1 heavy against any tier 4
Matilda, B2, Hetzer against any tier 3
Pz. III against any tier 2

And yes, you're right in the fact that T1-5 takes 2-ish days to grind through but in the case of most new players, their attention span is only going to last for 2-3 rounds to get that first impression of the game as a whole

My main point through all this is: WG is always trying to nub-proof the early tiers but they're doing it wrong. They claimed that 5.5 "balanced it" but yet they let all that slide

[drowsy plaza]

You aren’t supposed to win 1:1 against high tier tanks. You need to learn how to fight distracted enemies

[upbeat sphinx]

how about they balance the number of heavy autoloaders at tier 10?
there should be an equal number per team. Not fair if one team has all single shot and the other all autoloaders.

[merry eagle]

Nice hide and seek game

[full token]

Teams being equal would get boring. Lesser challenge of using the strengths of the single shot heavies against the autoloaders.

[upbeat sphinx]

not true
come one 3 autoloaders against 3 single shot will always win
and by t57 is too strong now, same the yoh

[real bison]

find proof of that @upbeat sphinx

find proof

[leaden holly]

@upbeat sphinx if they dont focus fire and empty their clips in the same target they dont win because of worse DPM

[elfin wing]

Maybe u should be a bit more careful against autoloaders and force them to waste their clips and use your (generally) higher DPM. They dont have invisibility cloaks on them, hence they wont magically appears right behind you. In each match, according to the enemy tanks, you should make a plan. For your case (3 autoloader heavies vs 3 single shot heavies) you should move carefully. If possible with additional firepower. You should use each cover/corner etc to waste at least some of their shots. Once u make them miss some or get cover after one or two shots, you will get the upper hand.

[upbeat sphinx]

not always true, the autoloaders (Yoh using the 105, amx 50b, and t57) have around 3k dpm. single shot tanks are around 2.5k/2.7 dpm
The only expections are the chieftain, obj 260 and wz 113.

[full token]

There’s more factors than just who has autoloaders. The player of each tank won’t be the same. You can still outplay them. And not all autoloader heavies outperform single shot heavies. Some would be worse. The best players in an autoloader can fail to win against a weaker player. Autoloaders don’t guarantee wins.
That’s just part of the challenge of having random team compositions. If you make that equal, and then go to make other aspects of each team equal, you end up with more stale battles where you don’t have to compensate for any issues with your team. Some of the better heavies are single shot too, because DPM isn’t everything

[unique scaffold]

In most cases yes, a Kran will beat most T10 because of the way the tank performs. The yoh is similar with it's hull down capabilities and needs to be nerfed by WG however the 50B and T57 heavy are both pretty easy to counter with a bit of skill

<@&481447501690568709> ^ ban
tnx

[modern rapids]

🤔

[upbeat sphinx]

I feel personally it while driving a fast heavium, like the 260 or the 5a. I cannot push autoloaders while reloading because I know I cannot take them out before they reload.

[full token]

You don’t need to. You just do the damage and then get in cover before they reload, or try to absorb some of their hits somehow. You just wait till their clip is emptied, or they’re reloading another shell, pop out and do your damage, then hide till you can do that again. Often you’ll have teammates, some armor or some mobility, some distraction. Anything that helps abuse their weaknesses

[minor gazelle]

Nerf smasher and annihilator

[versed axle]

Went they already nerfed?

[slow steppe]

WG please buff T110E5.
You guys have really ruined that tank.
In WG stream now about the Christmas event Riddle saying if you like playing American heavies like the and his voice came low saying T110E5. You guys really know you have ruined that tank why.
WG please buff it

[sudden granite]

Free nitroooooo <@&481447501690568709>

[indigo knot]

Yeah 'Riddle'stripe nerfed E5

[plush mulch]

I hope that the next snow globe will be easier and balanced because last year I had to put my private life aside and play 50 battles a day, although it was not enough

[unique scaffold]

Nerf the E5 and make a flat out better tank "Concept 1B"

[safe rapids]

At this rate Concept should just be in the tech tree bruh. Tbf the E5 is still solid, bounces a lot of shells when I play it, but I think it needs it DPM back up to 2750 or so. And the turret traverse is too slow. It needed a nerf, but not as big as what WG did.

[merry blaze]

FV215B needs more HP like 2300 and 2400 with equipment to make it balanced with all the other heavys

[noble kelp]

That banned mad lad on the memes was funny too bad we miss him

[safe rapids]

Yeah true

[unique scaffold]

I'm confused. Just look at these two battles. I hope you have a reasonable explanation for this unfunny joke.

So I'm not going to lie, you screwed this up WG. It's a scam. You've stolen my ace. Where is the logic? Time between battles is just one day. You give less to f2p players, than those who pay? It seems that that's how it works. I thought this game is ok. You should work on that, because I have a clear evidence of you scamming players. It can't be a bug and talking that that's how it works is just pathetic. After so many years this system of giving aces etc. should be fair, so I guess it's not about that but it's you who engage. I like some aspects of the game but that exceeded the limits.

[unique scaffold]

dude, aces are done by average XP from players. If you have the nerve to say that WG is personally screwing you over then you are very dense, This company does not care for you as one person and does not "fake" aces, Damage has nothing to do with aces, its "Base XP' and as I can see you had 1500 XP where blitzstars says you need 1600XP for an ACE

[unique scaffold]

My offensiveness came out from my disappointment, so I might say some unreasonable words, but I thought it's clear that I should get an ace. The difference between battles is visible but if you say that base xp matters than I'm just shocked. So more damage doesn't mean better results. Interesting...

[nimble zodiac]

It does mean better results, but it shouldn't be the baseline for masteries, since base XP earned is

[mental pasture]

😭 😭 😭 oh no, WG didn't give me an ace I'm so sad

It's totally the company's fault, not because the best 1% did much better than me 😭 😭 😭 😭

[real bison]

maybe it’s the fact the first one was just teetering on the edge of the big M

and the second barely got into 1st class

@unique scaffold additionally, the 1st game was supremacy where you earned 400 points, and 900 assist

the 2nd was encounter with only 400 assist

[elfin wing]

Btw where we can see those ace bars, i couldnt find it. Is it for supporters? (I guess it is which totally make sense)

Droodles said the ace bar up there.

[mellow pawn]

We can't see the ace bars wdym

Yeah it's for supporters kinda cringe

[unique scaffold]

@unique scaffold If you read the badge by clicking on it, "Earn more XP in a battle" not damage, Damage does account for XP but so does kills and spotting, assistance damage -ect

[unique scaffold]

I've already explained I've said it in the influence of emotions, so your message is just making it worse. Also @real bison I didn't expect it will matter that much. The difference isn't major to me. @unique scaffold understandable. Thank you for support. I'll try to ace this tank next time.

[mental pasture]

Ok bro. Sorry for that.

[nimble zodiac]

I understand that you may have set a goal to master a tank (perhaps before moving to the next tank in the line or whatever). Just don't turn it into a way that it seems like pure work. Battle after battle, you may be pretty frustrated that even your best ones haven't given you a gold M.

All you gotta do is trial and error. If you do your part, and luck and RNG would have it, while your teammates struggle and your enemies fall, you'll get a Mastery in no time :p

[unique scaffold]

If you are not in the top 1% of players you don’t get an ace. It’s that simple.

[lament prism]

buff kv1 armor

[stiff edge]

fiddy bee do have wack ace bar

[jagged crescent]

🍦 _ _

[unique scaffold]

I know. I wasn't aware of that Base xp threshold.

[indigo knot]

So what are your thoughts on new MM changes where Lights and Meds are considered the class according to matchmaker

[real bison]

finally

[full token]

I wanted this for a while so I like it

[sleek grove]

carry more

[gleaming apex]

Fuzz#8058 has been warned.

[vagrant mauve]

Hi, you advise me what to buy 1 smasher chest or 1 trunk key

[sleek grove]

none.
save your money.
crates arent worth it, let alone if u ONLY buy ONE

[still badge]

Dense

[sleek grove]

i wish internet and phones were a privilege again, so that we dont have not so smart ppl on this server 😔

[brittle onyx]

That could actually backfire a little considering a tier 10 BC could be matched against a E50M which means med side is screwed in a 1v1 unless the BC is a better player and even then if the E50M pushes with the dpm and potential ram dmg he would kill the BC before he got out his second clip. Just talking about a clear 1v1 ignoring side effects like TD backup Troll bounces and heavy support it still could bring negatives but overall it is still better then before.

[unique scaffold]

Ok

[frail silo]

don't mind people like him or C1P lol

[uneven narwhal]

That could've happened even earlier

[brittle onyx]

Ik but now it is more likely
Because it doesn't prefer another light over a medium

[full token]

Benefits outweigh the issues. The lights don’t play too differently like they do on pc, so this helps solve the issue of having a difference of more than 1 medium/light and also the queue times

[remote oriole]

The benefits are more mirrored and thus stale games

[twin egret]

Vickers Light moment

[unique scaffold]

@lusty silo so the latest video says the MM has been fixed and that mediums and lights will be accounted as the same making it more "balanced" Literally the first game I play I don't have a medium and guess what....we lost because nobody can out spot or catch him, I don't get how any of this makes sense and just irritates me

[vast notch]

Pls buff tiger 131s front plate to 150

[uneven narwhal]

±1 rule still exists
It just considers both lights and meds as one class now instead of separate

[real bison]

^ that wasn’t so hard to read?

[versed tide]

So your team got stomped when you had 3 TDs and 4 heavies on a heavy/TD map ? I don’t think that’s an mm issue. @leaden flare I mean you can just crush the medium tank side in any heavy tank sooo

[twin egret]

Skill issue

[leaden flare]

Heavy and TD map ?
The map depends a ton on medium or you constantly get farmed from that side you literally can't do anything if your med side is open

<@&481447501690568709> most uncreative nitro one I've seen so far

[indigo knot]

This map is dependent on both sides....if one side falls then you get farmed

[unique scaffold]

I am a quite good player on this game and Im pretty sure Im not dumb enough to ditch my entire heavy flank in a slow immobile heavy to counter 1 medium who can out spot me and run....

[uneven narwhal]

A quite good player who's a Content Creator and has 60k+ battles would know the simple ±1 rule that MM follows

Your anger is probably from the frustration from your losses so I suggest you cool off to make rational arguments instead of painting a clown face on yourself

Have a good day

[elfin wing]

And this channel is for tank balance, not MM.

[full token]

It’s about tank MM not player MM. To me it fits

[unique scaffold]

it should not be possible to have a medium on one team and none on the other, call me a clown all you want it should be very common sense how this is something that should not exist, if you disagree then you simply don't understand the importance of mobility in a game

Added on, WG made a video where they said it should be less common to see matchups like this in their 8.6 video even when it is -+M still shouldn't be a thing

[uneven narwhal]

That just creates stale gameplay
Equal number of tank types in each team leads to people staying there all day whereas they push flanks they're dominant on
Right now, although you could not have pushed 6 tanks with 7 because the team wouldn't have went together, you yourself could've dealt with the 4202, you have the armor and HP for it and the 4202 does not have prammo which makes it harder for him

As for the speed factor, pushing right would've meant the 4202 goes back to his base and comes up either in B or behind his HTs, not yours
This also allows a chance for you to flank

That's what I would've done from what I can deduce from the photo you've sent

[mellow pawn]

@uneven narwhal why would he push right side just for ONE medium?

Do you know what a 4202 would do to an isolated 60tp?

@frail silo yeah that too, he could've left him in the dust to farm the side of the heavies

[leaden holly]

Thats what they wrote about it in the update relese notes: Joining Light and Medium Tanks

It's time to make changes to the way the matchmaker selects vehicles for battles. Light and medium tanks used to have different values in the matchmaker. So there were rarely cases when teams were unequal. As the way to play medium and light tanks is more similar, the matchmaker will consider them to be the same type. This means it will strive to make the ratio of light and medium tanks, as well as other vehicles, the same for both teams.

[frail silo]

which would have out spotted him anyway and ran away lol

[unique scaffold]

This channel says balance discussion not "tank balance" so no, I can talk about balancing the MM here

Second of all @uneven narwhal Im a 70%+ player in T10 and your telling me how I should have played my battle, I can tell you for a fact that If I had pushed Medium side we would have lost even harder judging that our heavies were bleeding hard, Please do not backseat drive a game especially when I played it to my fullest extent, Further more saying the MM is fair is being boring is possibly the most selfish thing I have ever heard, people like me who actually try to get good stats and keep a reputable name want fair battles not "fun" but hey it must be really fun to be farmed by a medium while not being able to counter in a heavy

[sleek grove]

maybe go and make clickbait videos on this new MM instead of complaining here just sayin'

[elfin wing]

Hey, guess what, there are pinned messages there! (That 📌 symbol up there, u should have known that) U might be surprised to see some of them.

[uneven narwhal]

So that the 4202 doesn't flank him?

@frail silo Yes and hence the FV is no longer a threat coming up from the rear
Which allows his team to focus on the front and him to push through

@unique scaffold Ok sorry that was rude
This pre-edited message that is

[mellow pawn]

I'm guessing you don't know what a 4202 can do to an isolated 60TP

[leaden holly]

lol shots fired

[somber hazel]

meadsy is better than droodles

[unique scaffold]

guess what, nobody reads pinned messages when joining a channel, maybe title the room idk "Tank balance"

Seems like you are the one crying, I simply stated how the MM has a issue and you come riding me about how I played my game wrong, prove me wrong pull out a 60TP and ill pull out a 4202 lets see how easy this game is to win for you, if someone like fatness came over here and complained I doubt you would say anything about him "playing wrong" the 60TP is not a mobile tank in fact it has a worse P/W than a E100 so if you just think that a 60TP would easily get back to my team it's not possible. The average blitz game lasts 3 minutes just in a training room it takes 2:30 seconds to go from where the FV4202 was to my heavies the game was over either way @uneven narwhal

I don't get why people can't have a simple discussion without being to put it lightly jerks

[sleek grove]

im still heavily surprised how a so called "good" player doesnt know about +- 1 MM

[uneven narwhal]

Lets see now

Yamato Harbor C cap
Has TD position covering the C cap

FV 4202 without HEAT
Hulldown 60TP on the enemy

Hmmmmm I wonder what happens

[elfin wing]

Guess what (so we use that as a beginning, nice, i like that), you cannot support your first argument with that simple "nobody read those" stuff. U have a server, right? At least u should be able to read stuff. "Hey i didnt know that" is not the best reasoning.

Add-1: WG didnt say "the number of lt+mt's will always be same from now on", they just decrease the risk. Even at that video teams dont have same number of mt+lt. @frail silo

Add-2: I did point out the rules, then Droodles replied my message with a bit higher tune (i guess being a youtuber is a cool thing?) and "correct" me. Then i said those pinned messages and he said "nobody reads that", should i continue? Or is that clear? @full token

Add-3: It is still about MM, not differences between tanks. Tank mm is a made up term. I know it is not IDEAL yet MM tries to make those teams as fast as possible. If there is not enough mt & lt there, it cannot pick someone and force that person to play lt or mt, right? @frail silo

[frail silo]

he isn't off topic either way though, it is tank mm.
he is not complaining about unequal WR teams.
and it is a fix implemented by WG that is supposed to be reported on

@elfin wing i do not care about what WG said, i am only arguing that he isn't off topic. not whether he is right or wrong.

[full token]

Why would people need to expect there are more rules for each channel than what #rules shows? It’s reasonable to expect something like a channel named #videos, for example, to be solely for videos, but not additional rules on what you can’t speak about there. By now you should notice people just don’t read pinned messages, and asking people to read it will only affect them, while others wont be made aware. Even then, it’s easier for them to just ask and be told they’re in the wrong place than to check every channel for additional rules

[unique scaffold]

agreed

@elfin wing got a problem with what Im saying go get a moderator last time I checked you aren't one, as I said go get a moderator or stop complaining

[elfin wing]

Did you really read there? There is a part:

• some channels have additional rules/restrictions, they will be in the pinned messages of those channels.

@unique scaffold did you read that part?

Add-1: So we start shaming, lol, nice one. @unique scaffold // Add-2: Nice edit/addition

Add-3: Well imo it includes number of MT/HT/LT/TD tanks each team but i cannot continue arguing about that. @frail silo Unlike you (thanks btw, seriously) Droodles choose a different path.

Add-4: That wont give us infinite freedom i guess TacNayn, but nvm.

[frail silo]

i am not arguing about whether he is right or wrong lol. i am just saying he isn't off topic.
also the pinned message is intended for people who cry about unequal teams in terms of WR, those who scream "noob team" whenever they lose.
and you can't say it is not intended for that, it is literally what the pin was made for.

[full token]

Ah nvm, still too lazy to check all the rules channels have

[unique scaffold]

you are not a mod, and if this really bothers you that much go get one. Furthermore I don't get how saying you aren't a mod shames you but ok lol

[real bison]

@unique scaffold genuine question, but what about when you have the MT/LT advantage

what about that?

[elfin wing]

First version of your message was like shaming. I don't want to be mod and i dont need a mod, thanks for the advice.

[empty nexus]

This is possibly one of the most useless arguments I have ever witnessed, Just leave it.

Is anyone Else concerned about How Insane the Concept 1B looks? It’s got a gun similar to the 215B and Rocks a turret like a Krans and it’s sides look really troll, Especially if you’re in an inaccurate gun.

The M4 Frenchie had weak sides which compensated for its great Frontal armour + it had a big profile. Concept honestly just looks really, really good. You can argue the hull armour sucks but all heavies have a weak lower plate

[fallow eagle]

Yes
It most likely will become p2w at some point but wg must undo the nerfs to e5, 215b and kran otherwise they will become obsolete
Later on,who knows,tournaments will be decided by premium and collector tanks rather then tech tree

[uneven narwhal]

Yep it's best to leave it alone now thanks!

[unique scaffold]

I personally feel that all battles should have some sort of balance when it has to deal with mobility, there should be at least 1 med/light on each team it's not fair for either party

@empty nexus On a second fact the Concept will most likely be the next comp tank it's gonna be a E5 pre nerf but on steroids just flat out stupid

[remote oriole]

There is a class imbalance in Blitz, namely between heavies and anything else, but this update changes absolutely nothing about that since heavies are still matched +-1 in each team. What this update did was „fix“ an extremely rare case of one team having both +1 for lights and mediums, which is extraordinarily rare.

Just by the way, this same balancing by classes is what made the class imbalance possible in the first place, so you are redeeming the offender with the consequences of his misdeeds which I think it just a poor way to go about things. The class imbalance should be removed no matter how the matchmaker works

Now to the topic of „balancing“ matches through the matchmaker, aka giving both teams approximately the same capabilities. Well, the obvious result of this balance is that both teams stand an about equal chance to win the game (considering the also practically mirrored maps) and it also means that both teams have the best chance of winning with exactly the same strategy.

So what we can expect is that teams start mirroring each other on the maps, everyone playing to the very same strengths, and eventually one team overcoming the other in a tedious and stretched war of attrition.

Only if one team has an incentive to not follow the meta because of imbalances in the team, only then can we expect to regularly see non standard plays and ‚random‘ matches where you cannot just predict right from the start where everyone goes (which you can do already, mind you).

The obvious cost will be steamrolls or extremely one sided battles, but since they are equally distributed in your favour and against you it doesn‘t matter, at least in relation to other players. Aside from that, I believe that steamrolls are perfectly acceptable as a part of the game as it shows a great variability in the teams both in regards to skill and tanks, which makes each battle unique.

[sharp saddle]

FV215B reload nerf should be reverted. What they did to the tank just outright killed it. I’m fine with the indirect nerf of the super speed boost, but it’s reload should have been untouched

[frail silo]

"There is a class imbalance in Blitz, namely between heavies and anything else, but this update changes absolutely nothing about that since heavies are still matched +-1 in each team. What this update did was „fix“ an extremely rare case of one team having both +1 for lights and mediums, which is extraordinarily rare."
not really lol, i think i have got 4 or 5 games with a light or medium disadvantage. this was in my current session too which lasted 1 hour or less.

@remote oriole fair enough lol

[unique scaffold]

this game for example has a medium vs no medium "granted he was bad, but it's 1 in every 5 games"

[remote oriole]

This is not about a light or medium disadvantage. The update removed he chance for a light and medium disadvantage.

I quote myself (arrogance 100):
„extremely rare case of one team having both [both] +1 for lights and [and] mediums, which is extraordinarily rare“

I just noticed that I wrote rare twice. Stylistic device or something I don‘t know

[fallow eagle]

I agree
Super speed boost nerf was necessary but the mobility nerfs just made those tanks very situational
Kran is still good enough because of the turret and autoreload despite the traverse nerf but e5 is rarely seen (at least in apac server)
Not to forget, chieftain mk6,a t10 premium tank is played almost four times as it's tech tree variant
(Sry I scrolled way down and the tank names aren't showing up
The one on left is chieftain and right is 215b)

[unique scaffold]

both E5 and 215b should have the boost removed and nothing else "reverted back"

[sharp saddle]

Perks of Chieftain being a paid for tank and escaping nerfs

[sleek grove]

👏 every 👏 special 👏 consumable 👏 should 👏 be 👏 removed 👏

[carmine smelt]

i do agree, Grille 15 does not need an op consumable, it just needs a darn camo rating buff please

[full token]

I’d prefer it not being more campy. Could give it back the traverse it lost a while ago, or some other buff than to the camo

[frail silo]

traverse for sure, no reason for it to turn like a ship

[empty nexus]

Personally I don’t mind the Super consumables, I don’t know why, but I just don’t. Kinda don’t care whether they’re in the game or not.

[unique scaffold]

Glad to see I'm not the only one finding super consumables trash
It made tanks like the 215b, E5, Kranvagn so bad because they needed to be nerfed
Kran not so much, but the Turret traverse is a real pain

[stuck acorn]

why shouldn't we revert back their old stats after removal of super consumables? Both of those tanks were fine before WG decided to destroy balance at T10 by adding some "variety". I would even say that FV215b after heavy tanks HP buff should recieve a buff at the cost of super consumables removal even before it's dpm got nerfed for no reason.

Heavies of course are a superior class now, because of their gameplay being nearly braindead, but come on. It doesn't justify in ANY way basically killing 2 tech tree tier 10 tanks

@quasi axle YES, great idea

[quasi axle]

How about we kill every tier 10 tech tree heavy then!

[remote oriole]

I support this idea

[full token]

in order to remove the super consumables, they have to first stop slapping it onto new tanks, but they are not slowing down there

[nimble zodiac]

Do that in battle <3

[urban perch]

What about the new aiming system?

[scenic void]

I wish WG would give the IS3 Defender a 100 hp buff. Almost every tier 8 HT has above 1700 hp.

[unique scaffold]

Why does people ne so toxic on the game?

[full token]

<@&481447501690568709>

[gleaming apex]

Fryscream#4442 was banned

[neat crescent]

dang so nerfed e5, in its current horrible state, and the , well not worst, but certainly in bad shape fv215b, with no fangs to fight back against tanks without the consumables that are just as good 24/7 🤔 i c

[versed tide]

Keep 215b like it was before, just remove boosts for e5

[mental pasture]

I occasionally play E5 on ratings and it just looks like ok. It's not horrible just because now you need to trust on moving the hull if you want to fight a circle of death.
Seriously, it's kinda of an euphemism what people is doing about T110E5
It's just not meta anymore. Deal with it.

[neat crescent]

that wr dropped by at least 3%, and the players which were very close to 10k are now just 3.5k, if it was only about meta and not it performing similarly to a 183 in regards to its average wr i would´ve accepted such a comment but thats not the case :), its underperforming and many other t10s easily beat it so im not going to ¨deal with it¨,** for reference its the 2nd worst wr heavy at t10, with kran being the first**

[mental pasture]

Well, I'm not surprised that a tech tree tank don't have a nice WR when it's not OP.
It was meta, got nerfed and the highly skilled players abandoned it. That's all.

And furthermore, raw data is only theory, tell me in practice how a slower turret makes your winrate decrease aside from circles of death.
Now you struggle to aim? There's something called as "pre-aim"
Now you struggle on trickshots? They're rather uncommon to make a difference in your WR after all

And I think it's nice to me when you mentioned that Kranvagn is the worst heavy in therms of WR. It's a balanced hull down tank and the practice tells it well, I just wonder what are the top WR heavy tanks in tier X, are they meta premiums or tanks unnecessarily buffed pre-nerf E5?

[neat crescent]

if the only thing they had nerfed back then was the turret rotation for a lot of heavies, then no one would´ve made as many videos as they did when fv215, kran and quite a few more tanks were nerfed in 8.2 :), its the concept 1b currently at 65 % wr in its current state and HOW its going to be released, and tanks like the yoh, m4 54,etc that sit at the top right now, EDIT the current tech tree e5, sits at 2.2k DPM base, while the newly introduced e5, with no frontal cheek weakspots, even stronger front plate and no belly weakspot(the spot under the tank) with only the sides and lower plate as weakspots, an all around upgraded e5 broke in most stats, sits at nearly 2.8k base dpm, with over 3k if running all equipment, even before the e5 could only be close to 2.7k or close all equipped, thats a 300 dpm diff, and a HUGE armor difference there too

[mental pasture]

1 trully second reload makes a real difference, but it doesn't make a meta tank suddenly become horrible. You still have consumables, equipements and provisions to decrease it and get like a 8 second reload. If the player used to equip CS and now uses GR, this same player will see no difference at all (like me)

And then you confirms what I've said. WR can be tricky when comparing to other heavy tanks. It's the second worst only if the top is full of premiums with premiums that have less noobs and OP tanks.

It's balanced now, not horrible as much people scream

Armor difference? What you're talking about? Since when the armor got nerfed?

[neat crescent]

thats more than a 1 second reload difference there with nothing holding it back or making it any worse than the e5´s, which even running an all dpm equipment setup doesnt get to 8s :), no i didnt say the armor was nerfed, im not aware if you fully comprehend english or not, but e5 frontally can be penned in quite a few spots in the turret, but concept 1b CANT, the front plate is similarly armored but since its got 10 degrees of gun dep it can be used more efficiently and increase its armor more than e5 hulldown, the belly, which is what shown in the picture is a weakspot u can pen in a e5 thats above u in case they make a mistake or show too much, with concept 1b, its only the lower plate, if u somehow hit that its gonna be a bounce EDIT: yes its mostly prems/collectors that sit at the top, but tanks like the mvi yoh, the wz 113, and the amx 50b, tech tree tanks, also sit close to said tank´s wr, accept it e5 is simply underperforming as it is

[mental pasture]

Oh well, let's see what you brought up here.

Concept 1b looks like just another premium meant to be a better version of a tech tree. I'm honestly not surprised unless if it's going to be tech tree

M6 Yoh is meta so I totally understand it's position. Meta tanks don't have a higher WR just because they are better, but also because skilled players have a tendency to use mostly them in higher tiers. What tank do you think that have more skilled players? Current E5 or Yoh?
As for the others tech trees, I'd like to see the difference between their WR and E5. I'd do this if I wasn't playing WT, but as you can see on my profile, I'm playing WT.

Btw, when I talked about the 1 second, I wasn't comparing it to the 1B. I was talking about the number that you just showed up here.
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/502016925405151234/920830121374548038/Captura_de_pantalla_2021-12-15_190622.png

[neat crescent]

1 second is still a vital difference, just like how t57 has the better burst damage over the amx 50b thanks to it having an intra clip of 2.5 seconds isntead of the 3 the amx 50b has, or the tvp 50/51 at 2s for each shell, in 6 seconds dealing 1200 damage, a lot more than the bc 25t, the only tank to which it can be compared and has a worst burst damage, 1 second may seem insignificant for you, but its still the difference between pumping out 1 shot in a difficult situation, winning or losing a match, shooting a weakspot before the enemy can notice or angle to bounce it, etc. sure its not the same since in that case its seconds to pump out a 2nd shell and not a single shell after a single shell, but those situations i said still apply with regular guns, you may say the M-VI-Yoh has more pro players but i will be cursed if you replied to this and didnt agree, the yoh has 17k players, theres no way in hell, steam with 19k active users during the last 30 days, has 17k players and theyre all above 50 or 60%wr, the amount of good players is so small it doesnt justify its current wr in average, heres a wr comparison btw for t10 heavies since you just wont give up :), **NOTICE **all the green in stats compared to e5?, and how theres only 1 TANK worst than the e5?

[nimble zodiac]

Dang bruh it's almost like only good players are playing Concept o-o

Oh it's not raising LOL

Sarcasm in balance? 🗿
Nah I just expect too much seriousness from people <3

[neat crescent]

yeah brutal, im still waiting for when the nubs and p2w whales rush to get it in the event to raise it to 70%, its sarcasm, will prob still be above 55% @nimble zodiac nothing wrong with random sarcasm 🗿

[mental pasture]

You could have just compared E5 WR with the Fv 215b and skip much useless time when comparing E5, a non-meta tank, with meta tanks like Maus or with premiums.

I find it surprising how even the post buff Fv215b has a better WR, even being truly the worst heavy in practice. Perhaps it was overnerfed, and perhaps you're right.

[neat crescent]

yeah maus, 111-5a, 113, and other tanks that havent received any significant buffs or nerfs over the recent years like is4, are definitely NOT meta, also think you meant post nerf, since fv215b didnt get buffed in any recent updates but rather nerfed, but yeah, it was nerfed too badly. or well it just doesnt have anything significant that makes the e5 stand out like its fellow tech tree friends, since it really doesnt have anything remarkable as a heavy or just a tank besides its bigger hp pool than fv215b 🤔 , its not fast, its gun stats arent amazing, the armor isnt amazing either, and it doesnt have a secret game mechanic that helps it in battle either so 🤷‍♂️

[mental pasture]

Maus IS meta. That's the biggest amount of HP and the greatest armor that you can have in a city map. How it can't be meta?

But yeah, aside from having a decent turret, an ok precision, good agility for a heavy (which doesn't need to be much) and OP consumables, there's no real good point in E5

[neat crescent]

alright maus is meta, since its always being used but it hasnt received any buffs, and only been taking nerfs through this year lol, perhaps wg will pull a concept 1b move with it and replace it with something more modern(as in, better stats) and similar armor/hp.

[prisma jetty]

Maus, with one of the highest relative wr’s, is certainly meta

[mental pasture]

People who judge tanks only by WR: 🤡

[winged barn]

Ah yes. A tank winning more matches than its peers means nothing.

[mental pasture]

Ah yes. We can forget that WR can be falsified by number of players. It's not like tech tree tanks with too much players, in a long term, tend to have a WR variation

[main tulip]

But more players playing a tank means a more accurate average WR assessment

[mental pasture]

Not necessarily. Don't forget that most of the players aren't actually good on the game.

Less players = higher WR
Higher players = lower WR
But this comparison can also variate depending of the tank

If you're using WR as comparison in very popular tanks, it's sure to be much lower than what it actually is if you "remove" the noobs from the play. Unless you find a way to filter only 55% players using certain tank, then the data is probably much lower than what it actually is, thus making it invalid

[main tulip]

Your assessment is correct, but more players is always going to better represent the average player base, which is what we're looking for

[leaden flare]

Maus Meta ? In which world is he living ?

The only meta tanks rn are Yoh and 60tp

[mental pasture]

Biggest HP pool and greatest armor possible for sidescraping (without the need to spend money)*? Nah, isn't meta at all

Happy now? @neat crescent

[neat crescent]

greatest for sidescraping?, i would go as far as to say that, since vk90, is truly better when talking about sidescraping, but yes its the one that, though not OFTEN but still used, is seen for its hp/overall armor

[outer glen]

now im going to buy January pass seems cool

[leaden flare]

It's great Armor is paper and even if angled right you can pen it
It's ufp is so weak pretty much every heavy can just pen it in facehug
Not that great of a gun too with pretty low dpm
You can't sidscrape everywhere
If the turret is too angled just he it and you have a chance of splashing the engine deck setting it on fire

The blitzcup is the definition of meta and how many mauses were there 3 or 4, If there was any at all ?

There we have it if there is more suitable (better) tanks then its not meta how hard is that to understand

Why even bring up tier 8 if we're talking about t10
I wouldn't consider 252u meta anymore it's just more or less the bots first choice because you don't have to do anything in it

[mental pasture]

When people cannot manage to read the word "sidescraping", they can say things that they don't even believe about certain tanks

"You can't sidescrape everywhere"
Not my problem. The tank is meant to sidescraping.

Uh, they didn't use Maus, thus Maus surely isn't meta. It's not like there are more competitive tanks for tournaments.

252u is meta in tier 8, even tho there's better options. How hard is that to understand.

[main tulip]

meta kinda implies the absolute best though

@mental pasture if you google "meta" it is defined as "the most effective strategy to win" or the "best strategy"
Blitzcup does define meta. The reason you see teams use different tanks is because at tier 10 there isn't a single best tank, but a few "meta" options for them to choose from depending on the team's style

No team is going to use 7 of the same tank no matter what because there are roles to fill in this game, so therefore they need to use several different tanks, each one being the best at their role, unless they release a completely overpowered tank with the best firepower, mobility, and armor in the game at the same time

[mental pasture]

Since when Meta implies absolute best? This doesn't even encounter with Riz's description.

According to him, blitzcup defines meta. If that's so, we'd see the same tank used by the whole 14 players each match
Absolute best is absolute best no matter what.

If tier 8 have meta tanks that are more suitable to tournaments than others, why tier 10 can't?
@leaden flare

[leaden flare]

You didn't even get my point with blitzcup
It was meant to say that not using meta tanks in blitz cup would give you a disadvantage therefore the tanks prominently used there are meta

Random battles are filled with people not even knowing what meta is so they aren't using Thier best tanks because Thier intentions are different

[outer glen]

Kinda balans huh

[nimble zodiac]

At least they can nerf it before it comes out

[mental pasture]

Well, thus said @main tulip, meta is the best strategy to win a game. Isn't it possible to have different strategies for competitive and casual scenarios? In casuals, meta isn't necessarily only Yoh and 60TP, but perhaps in competitive yes, I don't know, I don't watch competitive scenarios in games.

There are tanks that fill certain roles better than others and depending of the situation, certain roles are more necessary in casuals than in competitive, and vice versa, for example E50M which have an armor that works well in casuals as the noob's precision is bad, but I don't see it being a good option in competitive (I don't know now after the buffs tho)

In casuals, I can see T-62a being a good option, in competitive it's much better to simply choose a fast heavium

[main tulip]

yeah mediums aren't used in comp

[fast jay]

I dont agree with the part that kravagen ist the worst heavy.... I would say its just hard to play good

[nimble zodiac]

FV215b shamefully interjects...

[lime torrent]

Kranvagn is one of the greatest heavys if u aint bad. 1.9k dpm doesnt mean anything. But sadly i meet a lot of people in battles with kran that they just have like 30wr on that and 1.3k avrg

[mental pasture]

Boys, that's exactly why theory and practice are different. Tech tree tanks that takes high skill level will most likely receive lower stats. For example the AMX 13 75, it's my favorite light and actually pretty good, but I'd not get surprised if it's stats are horrible, it's competing on the same tier of Annihilator and Smasher

[unique scaffold]

I'd like to see a HE protection shield consum on Scorpion G : ) If all german cannon glasses have it, why not scorp

[empty nexus]

That’s fairly logical, but I hate HE protection overall. Shouldn’t exist, removes the threat of HE from glass cannon gameplay

[stuck acorn]

100% agreed. This crap should be removed instanly. Start giving buffs to tank, instead of giving them trashy super consumables which are ruining the game

@unique scaffold It won't be fair if you give a scorp an HE shield. It will even further increase the role of this highly cancerous thing. Just remove it from all tanks instead of adding it to next ones. Scorp is already really good and it doesn't need it at all

@mental pasture i'm far from super heavy hater. I really like super heavies. It's not bad because it's a super heavy. It's bad because it has trash stats

[unique scaffold]

Yes but it'd be just, more fair towards scorp players. 130 pm is a little trickier to he but scorpion is so big n stuff
Auf in right hands is op-ish and has HE shield sooo 👀 idk, just to make it more fair ya know

[mental pasture]

The average super-heavy hater that shows its bias whenever it can

"Wow it have a weakspot when going to shot, it's so bad and it's armor is useless"

"Biggest HP, so what?"

"it's absurdly slow, surely not because of the armor values"

"I find super heavies bad because they are slow"

Pretty much this wall of text give the feelings of the 4 phrases above

[stuck acorn]

@mental pasture well you forgot about whole trash gun argument. Also every tank needs a weakspot that's obvious, BUT when literally half of the turret is a one big weakspot which you can't hide unless enemy is stupid enough to shoot instead of keep his shot until you unangle while still being slow as fck something is wrong.

It would be fine with some more accuaracy to somehow make up for the lack of pen and dpm, as a skilled player would be able to make every shot count, but WG decided to go on the opposite way, making it even bigger pile of trash nerfing it's acuuaracy just to prevent noobs from camping, which they will do anyways, because when somebody is stupid enough to camp in a maus, he won't even take a look at accuaracy statistic

@distant river ofc it can perform well, as is said few messages above, because it's an big HP bag. But here we need to take one more thing into considiration. What's the point of the tank that's extremely frustrating, sluggish and stale in the game where average game last between 2.5 and 3.5 minute. All you can do is basically act like a shield and pray for enemies to have 0 brain and focus on you instead of your teammates

@mental pasture did i ever say it needs to be like an v4? All i ask for is some more accuaracy for the tank to be actually able to do something. With it's bad pen you won't avoid shooting in weakspots. You can even take out something else in return. Tank without a gun will be bad no matter how good everything else would be. Armor and mobility are fairly balanced

[distant river]

The maus is actually a fantastic tank it's just confusing to play. It's very easy for a bad player to do adequately in but it's more restricting on anyone over average who doesn't appreciate that it's a tank meant to help the team win. You don't need to do damage when you have that much armour and hp and you just have to get that into your head and remember it in all your positioning and it'll perform great

@stuck acorn You mean all it can do is its job? 🤦‍♀️ You don't have to hope they focus you, you force them to focus you. You can't call it "a piece of crap" because you dislike how it plays

[mental pasture]

If you want a better gun then play E100 or 60TP. Maus is meant for a defensive role, thus making damage isn't your main target, while using this heavy beast you might want to block the enemies advance and act as like a sponge. You'll be penetrated at some time, but so what? You have literally the biggest HP in the game.

People that plays super heavies shall not expect an Object 268v4

[stuck acorn]

Ofc im picking E100 and 60TP over it. More defensive role? yeah, everything is okay, but other heavies can do the same. Literally the same and some of them even in better way. For example earlier mentioned VK 90 or 60TP. Both of them can just stay well positioned and bounce nearly everything coming their way, but unlike the maus those tanks can actually shoot back enemies, while maus will get eaten alive and probably miss/not pen half of it's shots trying to do that

This tank right now has only 3000 players. It's actually the lowest number of players out of all tech tree T10 tanks, except FV215b, which also got killed by a nerf and a WZ 113G FT that since the release is overshadowed by thw 268

[stuck acorn]

@distant river your chart shows number of battles, not players. So it doesn't show how much players tend to play the tank, but how much this niche that tries to play it, spams it. It's the wrong chart.

For example on your chart Wz 113 is way lower on the chart, but it's obviously way more popular tank. But because of it being average in everything except dpm and traverse it's not that fun to play so people who have it, even if there is more of them don't play it that much

also, it's chart from 8.4 so this data is already over 1 month old

[neat crescent]

statistically its the worst wr heavy at t10 right now, whether you like it or not

[distant river]

40k players, and 300k battles in 8.4

It shows both things.

It's not unpopular, and it's not unplayed, and it's not a bad tank.

More people play the maus, and there are marginally fewer battles in the 113, and as the 113 has just under 30k players you can say that people play more battles in the 113, despite less players using it. Idk what you are interpreting from the charts but it isn't right. 8.4 is plenty recent enough, especially seeing as since 8.0 the player count has stayed between 40 and 55k players. I wouldn't expect it to have changed much in updates before that until you go back to its buff so feel free to go back and look if you really want a reason to try to prove the stats to be "wrong"

[mental pasture]

I totally understand you saying that VK 90 does a defensive role better than Maus, but good luck trying to get it. Go gamble indefinitely or spend your parent's salary if you want it.
But 60TP? Lmao, it's armor is only trustworthy at hull down, otherwise you'll get penetrated even more than in a Maus and die much sooner as you have way less HP.

By the way, you're ignoring official data over numbers from Blitzstars? Don't forget that Blitzstars don't count all the servers neither all the players in that data

[gleaming apex]

EpicDoge#4463 has been warned.

[empty nexus]

Honestly I think the VK90’s cupola should be nerfed. That’s it, keep everything else the same but nerf the cupola

[twin egret]

Yea, honestly that's fair ^
It's a nerf, but not a really awful nerf, the tank would be less brain dead with players having to actually learn how to shield their cupola with their gun or when to swing their turret left

[neat crescent]

i mean, you can still pen those cheeks and cupola with more than 300mm of pen

[leaden flare]

yeah aim for those cheeks not like they are insanely small and a god awful target

[whole nebula]

I took the t110E3 out yesturday, and my god that cupola gets shot at, no wonder noones using it now… poor things pretty close to worthless/average now

[twin egret]

Use FV201 Badger

[stuck acorn]

wtf. T110E3's coupola didn't get any nerf. It was just a bug. It's not played that often, because the line is real pain and nobody wants to grind trough that. E3 is still as strong as it used to be

[elfin wing]

Since it is "slow" after a couple of matches people might want to use some of those "faster" tanks.

[prisma jetty]

E3’s cupola is actually stronger against HEAT now due to it having spaced armor in the front, and since most prammo at tier 10 is HEAT it’s effectively become better than before

[nimble zodiac]

Black = before
Grey = after

Before the update I had to edit the effectiveness myself

[night geode]

🥲

[neat crescent]

well, its strenght does come from angling not raw armor so ap/apcr, shells tha normalize upon impact reduce the angle by 5 degrees/2, respectively, reducing the armor value by a lot, the only shells that would look at 481 mm is prob heat

[night geode]

i tested it before still its not like that, but still better than before, i got to many bounces in regular battles today and i hope its stay at this armor statistics (dont nerf)

[nimble zodiac]

The highlighting is bravely making it slightly red

Still like 382mm after AP norm @neat crescent

[nova loom]

Buff t49 heat pen.

[prisma jetty]

T49 is fine as is

[neat crescent]

hmmm well 🤷‍♂️ as i said angles, help or kill you, anyone looking below you will find it thicker, anyone at your same height or above you can pen the hull deck or the turret, tanks that are just as small might also find it quite easy to pen, turning the turret even slightly makes it lose a lot more armor

[nimble zodiac]

It's actually 116mm thick according to wotinspector, BH needs to update their website for 8.6

So yeah, it's angled to around 255mm effective vs AP, so most heavies have a decent chance at penetrating

Blitzhangar made it look cracked when it isn't.

[main tulip]

was wondering why it looked grey to my heavies lol

[vague wadi]

@cedar mist hi

[fallow eagle]

Just wondering if you guys have met concept 1b in battle
I have come face to face with one and mobility seems way too much for it
I don't want this game to transform into one with fast heavies that can take positions quickly and once there,no one can actually do anything against them

[full token]

They nerfed the E5 and 215b for that

[stuck acorn]

yep. They actually already nerfed 2 tanks for that reason and then released a new one that can do the same.

Intelligence 100

[full token]

And a tank that can’t be nerfed anymore 🙂

[dire cradle]

Bring back the win rate/damage by tank/tier graphs. They were the most useful info for gamers you provided.

[mental pasture]

^

[river valley]

Buff the IS-5 armor a bit please

[neat crescent]

get good

[river valley]

Hull is weak, got penned by a tiger 1 and NOT into LFP

[regal grove]

Dude wants a 40 km/h 252U 💀

[quasi axle]

Why not!

[winged barn]

And it's not using gun depression yet

[neat crescent]

and then people are gonna say ¨waah waah u can still pen the lower plate and the pike is weak when it looks at the side¨,.... is that not the case with almost every tank??

[full token]

No, not almost every tank has a pike. So IS5 needs buff

[neat crescent]

Yeah but u can pen most tanks whenever they turn, on the side or the front, regardless of pike or no pike 🤔 , on the trackwheel, maybe a red spot thats now grey, etc etc, not all tanks have the joy of tiger 2 where turning it, only the side becomes weak but front is just slightly less armored, where as in u almost always use pramo to pen it 🤷‍♂️ or aim for the hatches/turret, etc.

[river valley]

See the weakspot below turret front? Thats what i mean

[full token]

That’s a common weakspot on many tanks

[livid cipher]

plat t7/8 around 60wr ?

[neat crescent]

never heard of driver hatch/weakspot per chance? 🤔 some SS´s for more info (do correct me if one these highlights the wrong spot lol cant remember them all)

[river valley]

Oh i thought its just a weird weak slope and it also ricochets shots into turret like on IS-3

[nimble zodiac]

There are also areas you can hit with AP/APCR that will cause the shot to rico into the deck, which is often overmatched. It's generally why the green highlighting looks erratic or glitchy

[stuck acorn]

Armor isn't IS-5's problem. It's not really good, but okay for that mobility. The real pain is it's gun. That thing could use some buff'

[neat crescent]

could say the same about obj 252u, which has a worse gun than is5´s

[nimble zodiac]

That's a bit debatable, since 252U has the better set of shells, and already better penetration for standard. Accuracy is also a bit of a debate since IS-5 may have a bit less dispersion, but movement (other than the turret) is more unstable in comparison to 252U

252U's gun is also more flexible, 6 to 5, 20 to 17

[remote oriole]

And the 252U has armour as if it expects to be moved to tier ten any second

[nimble zodiac]

AP and APCR shells will never penetrate the 252U's UFP head on unless the 252U chooses to gunblock, causing the shell to bypass the 3CR, but only for the frontal part of the UFP, thanks Ho-Ri...

HEAT and HE shells will never penetrate it due to sheer effectiveness, unless gun depression can be used against it, which the top guns in the game will need that

Even if the UFP was 60mm, a 252U running enhanced armor will never get penetrated by AP or APCR shells unless it causes a 3CR bypass, or angles itself

[twin egret]

Technically speaking they can

[unique scaffold]

They can, but considering how paying players will create an uprising (no pun intended), its as good as considering WG isn't capable to do that anymore

[full token]

They won’t though. They never do that for collector/premium tanks at this tier. Unless they somehow change their mind about nerfing collectors they won’t be nerfing this one

Lol if they can do that it’s good. Just need to find some bug to fix now

[twin egret]

Watch as the next update describe a nerf on the Concept 1B as a "fix" like last time when they buffed the turret of the WZ-113 and called it a "fix" 🤡

[uneven narwhal]

omg balanced!
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/822426407597899789/921737277162545182/Screenshot_804.png?width=1121&height=631

[bronze osprey]

still better than facing an Ae phase 1

@neat crescent Why you think it has such a low drop rate?

@unique scaffold yes because at -10 it's not like its in a black hole

[neat crescent]

ae phase 1 is balanced, what 🤔

[unique scaffold]

AE Phase I has a cupola that you actually have a chance at hitting

[unique scaffold]

At full gun depression, it has pennable cheeks
Premium rounds will easily butter through

[bronze osprey]

yes at point blank where its both not rocking back and fourth, and where its hard for a shell to go anywhere but straight

[frail silo]

how is the concept 1b not better than the AE
AE also has a huge copula

[unique scaffold]

That's every hulldown tank in this game, exactly similar situation to tanks like the Yoh

What makes the C1B more broken is the absence of any weakpoint except for the thin strip at the top
With the AE, you at least have a chance of penetration
With the C1B, it's best if you just consider it impenetrable

Then player numbers also come into this, barely anyone has the AE and I dont doubt that by the end of these 3 weeks, plenty of people will have the C1B to topple what little balance there is in T10

[nimble zodiac]

You know the C1B's cupola is double-layered, right? The sides below the cupola are also penetrable. Yes, it's OP hulldown with GD, but that's like a lot of heavy tanks....

[drowsy plaza]

If it doesn’t use it’s full depression is a easy pen.

[turbid ridge]

Still waiting for WG to announce a 250mm armor buff on the Turtle Mk1... otherwise that pile of trash is virtually useless... unless the enemy team rushes your friking spawn (where you will still be 30secs into the game due to the top speed)

[quasi axle]

what the c1b or ae phase 1

[unique scaffold]

The C1B doesn't have much other drawbacks
45 kmph top speed, decent mobility, 10 degrees of gun depressions, virtually impenetrable turret, good gun handling
Yes that cupola exists but how often are you going to hit it when its hulldown

I don't think we need tanks that can quickly get to positions, hold them till the match ends and there's nothing anyone can do about it as long as they have the team behind them

Although this is biased view from me, you might be seeing some drawback I failed to
Only statistics and time will tell its performace

[nimble zodiac]

My bias was in a 1v1 situation, and I had the towering, hard-stacked mle 54. But it has lots of weakspots, be deliberate where you hit

[mental pasture]

Isn't this T32 in a nutshell?

[exotic goblet]

The t32 has worse speed, worse side armour for its tier, worse gun handling and worse pen for its tier

[nimble zodiac]

The side armor only matters to enemy HE/HEAT shells, since neither will ever reliably hold up if they’re not angled 70+ degrees

[exotic goblet]

but you can't deny the c1b's side is a lot more troll than the t32's

[mental pasture]

Well, as counterpart, T32 have OP consumables, so it can be as fast and survive as much as C1B

[neat crescent]

penetration was buffed in a recent update so, only worse side armour and gun handling

[nimble zodiac]

Never had problems with it, turns out it either can angle to protect its front, or angle to protect its sides, it does not have the ability to protect both simply by angling

Is it sidescraping? Shoot the exposed front.
Is it angling to protect the front? Shoot the side.

Are they doing both and you think it's too risky? Press 2 and it all gets solved, butter the front

@neat crescent I'd say both have pretty standard pens for their tier, I guess equal in that aspect

[jagged crescent]

The issue with the 1b imo is just how “easy” it is to use it. It’s hard to not do well in the 1b because there’s practically nothing that it can’t do sufficiently

[exotic goblet]

even with the super consumables it is barely as fast as the C1B, and it doesn't last all the time. The gun handling also isn't just a bit better, it is crazy for a heavy

[drowsy plaza]

1B’s largest drawback is the pen and alpha both of which are low for an X heavy. Is it good yes, but it’s not ridiculously broken.

[quasi axle]

💀

[weak dome]

if there’s no way for you to get up there anymore though, then that’s just

[jagged crescent]

._. Cali

[nimble zodiac]

Still, then you lose the leverage of DPM

[jagged crescent]

Then don’t use cali and aim.

[nimble zodiac]

Don't call cali then =(

[bold wigeon]

Super Conqueror or Chieftain Mk. 6?

[winged barn]

Very different tanks. The skonk is a proper heavy, the mk6 has to avoid all incoming fire

[twin egret]

Mk 6 is a medium of sorts

[nimble zodiac]

It's a preference between protection and firepower
It's your preference, both tanks perform well

[bold wigeon]

Ah rip. Thanks for the advice. I’m a guy who likes to use gun depression, and a lot of it, no matter the vehicle. But it seems that both tanks fulfill that criteria equally well.

[winged barn]

Yes, but a kran does things very differently than a m48

You really can't go wrong with either one. It's all down to the playstyle you want out of a tank. If you want a cyclical firing kran, go with skonk. If you want a fatter stb, grab a mk6

[bold wigeon]

Oh yeah, absolutely. What I was trying to say is that for hull-down tanks I am usually able to adapt or switch playstyles according to what they are without much effort. Hull-down is my center baseline, but it’s not everything.

[neat crescent]

stb´s turret cant be easily pramo penned though, in that sense u cant say a ¨fatter stb¨ when comparin it to the chief mk6

[cursive schooner]

The chief turret can be kinda easily be penned by standard tho

Ok lol it’s 1.30 am for me

[neat crescent]

thats literally what i was implying

[stuck acorn]

the problem of the 1b isn't that it's broken. Problem with this tank is that it's literally a pre nerf E5 but stronger. WG totally ruined E5 for being versitale heavy tank and then introduced 1b that can do the same as it could but in better way. This tank completly ruins the point of E5 which after nerf was bad already. And i just want to remind that 1b is a collectible that people already paid for, so it will probably never get nerfed, because of WG is obviously not willing to nerf tanks they sell even if they could and should.

Conclusion is one - WG ruined another tech tree tank just to squish some money and now we need to wait for powercreep for it to kick it out of the meta

They have made so much effort into stopping Jack of all trades heavy meta 3-4 months ago just to introduce it again, but only for players that are willing to spend horrendous amount of money intoo gambling. I would rather go back to pre 8.2 state, at least then all meta heavies were easly accessible just by researching

[indigo knot]

I think there are a number of things that make it quite strong
It is a hulldown tank that can side scrape....
Gun is pretty accurate (soft stats are so good)
Mobiilty overall is pretty nice, P2W ratio is high.... 18kmph reverse too(WG should stop giving HTs reverse speed more than 15kmph)

Is it better than pre nerfed E5 imo....I think they are same for pubs but no for comps
Speed boost and reactive armour made E5 what it was for comps and also it doesn't have much HP or DPM advantage

Tho if you want to balance out a hull down tank with -10 gun depression...do it like Super Conq and MK6 (either give them bad overall armour except for turret ofcourse or if armoured the mediocre mobility and mediocre accuracy)
Like you won't nerf it ever in future so it is better if it on the mediocre side

[twin egret]

FV215b should get a bit more gun depression

[empty nexus]

It already has 10° on the sides. I want the P2W slightly buffed along with DPM

[thick rover]

215B has 10° on sides..?

[unique scaffold]

Plz buff bourrasque, it is just useless tank. DPM is horrible, mobility is just insane with hull turn ratio which is low, armor can not compensate for the lack of the gun depression, lack of DPM, lack of mobility... Just give him some power to be able to be copptetitive in game. Actually no med / light or heavy tank can be defeate by him (only by circling but it happens too few).

[full token]

ignoring the ability to do 640 in 2 seconds and then have the mobility to run away, which also fixes your armor issue and inability to deal with heavies frontally

[vital basalt]

not all premiums should be broken, bourrasque trades its armor and dpm for 640 burst in 2 secs with great mobility and with armor that cant be HEd by most calibers

[teal palm]

Honestly the Bourraspue is probably one of the more “balanced” premiums we have seen

[winged barn]

It's not better than the t49 in every possible way, needs buff

[twilit crystal]

the borrasque mobility is actually fairly mediocre, just an above average medium tank mobility with the potential to eventually accelerate to 60 kmh. A decent reverse speed I guess but the mobility isn't that good.

[distant river]

Balanced + fun

Aka the perfect prem

Aka don't buff it

[vapid swan]

Есть ребята с русским чатом?

[shut pulsar]

On the topic of the C1B, I’ve noticed that it’s pretty similar to the Cheiftain mk.6. The mobility is very near the same but the C1B has better armor while the Cheiftain has better firepower. So I don’t see the C1B as a broken tank, just a very good tank, like the Cheiftain.

[winged barn]

So...
It's like a super conq, only with mobility
At the cost of... better armor?

It doesn't quite have the alpha, but it gets hull down immortality in exchange so...

[leaden flare]

It's sidearmor is also troll as hell due to its angle if you hit above the tracks

[drowsy plaza]

Has M60/E4 sized engine deck though.

[brave dragon]

Server is English only.

[unique scaffold]

2700 average damages in... but it feel not that's good

[stuck acorn]

215b doesn't have 10 degrees at the sides. it has only 7 same as on the front

[indigo knot]

@west torrent

[sleek grove]

<@&481447501690568709> nitro scam

[empty nexus]

Man personally I think the chieftain is overrated. So easily to deal with, it’s hull is so weak, all you need to do is hide until you reload than out trade the chieftain. Huge cupola = easy pen. + not many people know how to use it

[frail silo]

it is a hulldown tank you know? and also the cupola is easy pen yes but if you hit it first. unless the chieftain is literally standing still.

[empty nexus]

I don’t have it, but I play against it Fairly often and it’s just so easy to kill because of its lack of hull armour. It’s only good hulldown, otherwise it gets caught out and annihilated really, really quickly. And even hulldown, the cupola at short distances sticks out like a sore thumb

[frail silo]

lol if you catch one in the open he is simply caught out of position. you can't use that as a talking point.
and at hulldown even if you engage in close quarters, it will out DPM you anyway and you won't reliably hit the cupola unless you are literally face hugging.

[leaden flare]

In a hulldown fight dpm doesn't really matter because usually u only use that Armor for the split seconds that you expose yourself to shoot at your enemy then go back and wait for the reload

[twilit crystal]

n

[thin ermine]

Concept 1B is game breaking.

Speed of a heavium, gun of a heavium, and yet still has an incredible armor profile. 10 degrees of gun depression and a turret that is impenetrable when you use over 5, not to mention the wacky side armor.

There are no major weaknesses to exploit and to add the cherry on top it has a camo that hides the only weakspot on the turret. Well done wargaming, well done.

[mental pasture]

Check the good side, at least it won't be so good on the next years, let's just see what will be even scarier that C1B when it gets powercrept

[main tulip]

Well object 268 v4 is certainly "scarier" than the c1b, but it doesn't really powercreep it in any way

[unique scaffold]

The solution to fixing broken tanks is NOT adding more broken tanks

[silent hinge]

This gun is 105 mm not 75

[mental pasture]

That's pretty much obvious

[stuck acorn]

WG is actually thinking this way so maybe it's not that obvious

[thick rover]

60tp under plate nerf pls

[woven hill]

aiming with a 60Tp
How dumb do people has to be to call this balanced? Do WG really have us for monekys here. This utter... Fill in the word Nerfed the T110E5 just so they could put this out and grab everyone by the balls and milk all those stupid Wallet warriors. BC now you can say this is gone full P2W.
Well done WG. Keep doubling down.

[royal moon]

Devs can u buff the #Turtle MK1? its so bad that it move poorly, badly armored and gun is bad that theres no point to play this over jgtig 8.8 and other tds also @woven hill git gud, i killed countless concept 1b and it wasnt difficult

[mental pasture]

It's not that they truly think this way, it's because this is the way that gets them much more 💰

[full token]

No one said it was unkillable

[royal moon]

@full token Then he should find a way to defeat these tank instead of crying like a baby and asking to make the game auto win for him and also 60tp is op now theres no reason he cannot defeat an 1b

[distant river]

Being able to kill a tank does not make it op

Being able to find a way to kill a tank does not make it op

[mental pasture]

Shaw I use your same argument knowing it's an incorrect way to argue?

60TP isn't OP as I killed many of them and it wasn't difficult. Git gud. (Furthermore, using Germans and Soviet tanks)

[uneven narwhal]

I would suggest you make vaild points instead of saying
"Git gud lol I killed a tank it's not OP now"

[full token]

@royal moon Every tank is defeatable. Balance changes occur because some tanks are too easy to defeat and some tanks are too hard, not because a tank is impossible to defeat in every way. Something like that

I don’t know how his battle went but it’s not impossible to have a tank better than the 60tp. I don’t think the concept is that much better but what you suggest doesn’t have to mean the concept is balanced. The 60TP isn’t the only tank in the game

[royal moon]

dude salty at a tank with decent turret lol. i mean get gud already, there are like a million ways to defeat a hull-down tank like rushing, calling ur teammates to shoot him and artillery (large caliber he shells), not like there arent any tanks with an actual invicible turret ahem is4, is7 and everything has been normal in blitz lol and @woven hill when u r hugged by is4/is7/60tp it would look like that too so i dont see the problem

[distant river]

^ This is what makes a tank unbalanced, the only solutions being:

• yolo like a bot
• hope you have more teammates alive
• HE splash
  None of which are reasonable counters.

Funnily enough the IS4 was the best tank in the game for a long time, and has been superceded by the IS7 since it got it's nearly impenetrable turret. That is not "normal"

[unique scaffold]

Rushing - There is his team behind him
Calling your teammates - I don't see what they can do in this situation
Large Calibre HE - Restricted to certain tanks and you'll still get out-traded easily

There have been tanks like the IS-4 and IS-7 yes but they are super strong as well
60TP is flat out broken

I don't get how the Concept 1B has a "decent turret" despite having a practically impenetrable turret apart from a minuscule cupola at the top that you are not going to be hitting

[full token]

The camo on the concept also puts some nice feathers in front of the turret weakspot that is the cupola. How nice

[uneven narwhal]

IDK man turret looks decent /s

[hearty steeple]

Just hit the pixels of the pixels that contain the weakspot

[prisma jetty]

If you look right here, there are clearly weak spots smh, just aim

[unique scaffold]

This actually would've worked out fine if the game meta didn't consist of these two things:
Hulldown and Hulldown

[empty nexus]

Eh I see where you’re coming from but speaking personally from my experience of fighting it just seems like an OK tank, nothing special really. I’m able to comfortably beat it with all my Tier 10 heavies(kran, 215B, 5A, 60TP, 50B).

I can see where you’re coming from but if you’re pushed on you can’t bounce anything at all. + you can pen the turret with TD heat. I’d say it’s a balanced tank rather than a good one/very good one

Anyways good talking to you, enjoy the rest of your day

[winged barn]

Care to explain how to pen with td heat without hitting hairline cracks in the armor
I forgor image 💀

[prisma jetty]

Yeah, go ahead, HEAT your way through spaced armor

[uneven narwhal]

Trust me bro!!1

[royal moon]

hori prem round does the job, eats 1b for breakfast

[uneven narwhal]

It can barely even pen it, there are thin strips that can be penned if you have pin point accuracy
Unfortunately, RNG and Dispersion exist

Even if you could pen it effectively, only one tank in the entire game being able to handle a tank going hulldown just further proves the point

[full token]

that convo was on the chieftain

[empty nexus]

With Foch/268 Heat, On Flat ground/ slightly raised you can Pen right above the gun, it’s this Stair-like shaped Space you can penetrate. It’s 250 mm above the gun on flat surfaces. Hulldown it’s 337mm, easy 404mm heat PEN(Foch 155)

[prisma jetty]

Ah sorry, my bad. Just got caught up in all the 1B discussions

[mental pasture]

Imagine needing a TD prammo with the highest penetration values just to have a chance to penetrate that turret

Also, it's worth to mention that this penetrable area is even smaller than E100 cupola

[distant river]

<@&481447501690568709> free nitro 4 u

Speedy mods <3

[jagged crescent]

well that was easy

[cursive schooner]

The weak part on the right is only like 40mm too

[autumn zodiac]

Yeah, I don't like how Making your hitbox smaller so the enemy has a harder time of hitting you, is normal either

That's like complaining about someone angling armor

[mental pasture]

Sailor moon?

[rain ivy]

"OMG that Maus is angling his armor against a building and I can't pen the side from 200m away! This game is rigged and the Maus is a bot. Nerf Maus too op. This is explicit language!"

~Some salty heavy trying to snipe with an IS-7

[winged barn]

Omg the minuscule impenetrable turret has locked down half of the map

This is fine
The kran is pushing it, and it pays dearly for its hull down immortality
The c1b does not

[sly rapids]

Sorry

[nimble zodiac]

👍

[rain ivy]

Sounds like a skill issue. Most hulldown spots are only safe from 1-3 sides. There's always an opening. While the above strategies can work, there's an amazing, revolutionary strategy that could solve your problem....

When they hulldown, you. Run. Away.

If they want to keep shooting you they have to leave their cozy spot. If they don't they lose out on damage while now your team has a gun freed up to focus other targets.

WoTB is just as much about strategy and.... Gasp thinking! If the situation isn't good, find a solution. That's how 1v2s or any other bad situation can be made into a winning one.

[winged barn]

Ah, the classic skill issue.
Let's say that I do have enough sense to not contest the tank that has absolute control over half the map.

The noobs on my team that don't know better will just get torn apart by it. Great. Now I am down meatshields, and there is still a minuscule red square on the central ridge of the map.
Let's say that I do try to catch it in a crossfire.
It's not exactly an immobile tank like a kran. Its gonna be outta there like a med.

But sure. A tank that allows one sided beat downs is a skill issue

[prisma jetty]

Yes run away, and then what? You keep running? Running gives up vital map control that sometimes cannot be lost. Besides, most of the time a Concept will be facing a heavy, and it is faster than most of the heavies at tier 10, so running just won't work

[clever gate]

If tier 10s have a problem with it then imagine stock tier9s which is a MM issue. 😓

[unique scaffold]

You forget the other 6 players in the team
I know what to do against a hulldown C1B, the others who are playing casually don't
They 1B can easily keep farming them

Now, I'm out of a position to get shots off, and my team is dying quickly

Flanking is not a viable solution for anyone who will try to use it
I get that flanking a hulldown tank is the best way to deal with it, but the 6 players I mentioned on my team earlier are on his as well
Even if they are all 40%ers, they have the basic sense of hitting at least one shot off
While flanking, all I'm going to do is spot their TD, get one shot off, get spotted and be able to do nothing about the hulldown tank who has probably farmed one tank by now

As for your reply @autumn zodiac , apologies, I have trouble understanding it
Although I probably need my daily dose of caffeine before trying to 😅

[mental pasture]

That's right. If you see an enemy like Kranvagn doing hull down, all you can do is run or protect yourself and retaliate using large caliber HE... But that's where the trick starts.

Unlike Kranvagn, Concept 1B do not have low speed as disvantage, do not have the bad DPM as disvantage, do not have the tall size as disvantage and do not have bad mobility as disvantage, furthermore; in comparison to Kranvagn, it have the same HP, superior mobility and speed in every aspect, better dispersion during movement, better size as for a more compact turret, one more degree of gun depression as for more 10° of gun elevation and to close with a golden key, the front of it's turret is made of spaced armor and primary armor, thus making it also immune to HE shots.

It's way more than an extremely superior Kranvagn, way more than a buffed pre-nerf E5; it's a threat to the game's balance and another proof of how the company, by no chance, has the intention to spare the player that does not sell everything in order to gamble.
Truly not a crime, but I doubt that even EA would be so unethical and agressive against the f2p

Shall I also mention the camouflage that hides the "weakspot"?

[rain ivy]

To counter the two folks that pinged me, I give this:

1st point: To answer @unique scaffold ; There is only one single C1B. If your allies are holding that corner point and are pinned down, Why would you join them there?

You have control of only your tank. He is only one C1B. He doesn't have 7 barrels that are able to auto target each one of you. He has to choose who to shoot. If you flank they have to either address you, giving up the pressure on your boys ath the corner, or not bother with you and give you shots on them. Sure, they have TDs that camp, but so do you.

You could also plan a flank that gives you as much cover as possible. Or use the most basic of skills: Map awareness. It's a lost art that you must learn in order to become a better player. The concept 1b is just another hulldown American.

You either flank them or leave them be and get shots on other targets. Don't be a sheep and blindly follow your team. Think for yourself and read the map.

For you @mental pasture : There are plenty of hulldown heavies with hard to pen weakpoints that have speed. Yet you don't complain about them. You adapted and overcame. What makes this different? Absolutely nothing. Every new hulldown vehicle usually gets the 'Its OP' phase when it starts out unless it's the AMX 30B with a massive cupola. You want to talk broken, let me introduce you to T22 med when it came out back in the day. It's still one of the best mediums because it's good for almost everything, not because it's good at one thing.

[unique scaffold]

If I flank, I'll come up beside their TDs who camp in spawn
All I'm going to do is get one shot off them and have to run away

I'll be lucky if I even get a chance to go behind them without getting nuked by the TDs
Also the size of the maps prevents you from doing so effectively
You either get spotted along the way or nuked

[frail silo]

i understand what you say since i own the tank. i am also speaking from experience and it is indeed a balanced fun premium. not saying that it is exceptionally good in anyway.
and i am talking about the chieftain not the concept 1b before i get bombarded with pings.

[mental pasture]

Yes, in fact there's a plenty of hull down tanks in the game and ALL OF THEM (aside from C1B) carry their disvantages.

• Badger is turretless, massively slow in speed and agility, low alpha, extremely poor sides and rear
• Kranvagn is slow and have a bad agility, extremely poor DPM, massive size and the turret can be targeted by high caliber HE
• T110E5 (current version) have a very slow turret, low DPM, extremely poor sides and rear, cheeks become a weak spot against 340mm HEAT, can be targeted by high caliber HE
• T110E3 is extremely slow without the OP consumable and for the mobility which stills bad even with it, turretless, extremely bad sides and rear, long reload
• IS-7 have a poor ammo rack, poor gun angles that makes a lot of hull down areas unavailable, can be targeted by high caliber HE
• 60TP have a poor ammo rack, long reload, can be targeted by high caliber HE, have excessive size
• T62a have low alpha, can be targeted by high caliber HE, low HP, extremely poor hull

Why is C1B the only that does not carry any of those disvantages?
No slowness, no massive size, no turret that can be target by high caliber HE, no bad DPM, no poor sides, no bad turret turn rate, no poor ammo rack, no turretless factor, no bad penetration, no low alpha, no bad gun angles and virtually no weak spot on the turret.

About the T22, I know it well and every time I comment about it I'm accusing it of being OP. For now, my target is C1B.

(When I say low alpha in Badger, it indeed is when compared to other TDs, but I accept it as my mistake)

[frail silo]

badger doesn't have low alpha(460) tho, but i agree with the rest.

[rain ivy]

@unique scaffold Clearly you didn't plan your route. Nowhere is invulnerable, and there's a way to get shots without being shot, even on Mines which has the campiest of camp spots. You know where they are gonna camp 8 times out of 10, so plan your new position accordingly. Map awareness 101. Count the tanks, know where they were last seen and where they likely will be. If you choose not to do that then it's very much a skill issue in the form of bad tactics on your part.

@winged barn Ok, you can't control your team. But you can control yourself. If you can't reposition and use your meat to get damage then it's a skill issue on your part. You don't want to think about what to do, just blindly follow the mob.

@prisma jetty Running allows you to set up shots elsewhere. Somewhere you have the advantage. Somewhere they are exposed and you aren't. Plan how you'll respond, not why you are there. Even tanks with low mobility have options, but it requires you to plan to their counter.

For you @mental pasture: it has relatively weak hull armor. It's only good in hull down situations, and it can be beaten by hull down vehicles. If it's at range, take the ding from it and move to a different position that's closer. If you're fighting over the same hill, use your HP and frontal armor to your advantage.

You want to know the most counter to a hulldown tank? Not going to places where it can hulldown, or taking it's hulldown spot before it.

It has alright mobility for a heavy, but some heavies like the Mk6 have similar or better speed. Not to mention the mobility of meds that are hulldown kings like the m60, FV, and STB to name a few.

Again, don't complain about things you can't change. It makes you look like you're bad at the game.

Focus on what you can change. Play hulldown tanks, or choose positions that the 1b can't use it's hulldown power. Use your map and that wrinkled ball in your head to think of solutions and not complaints.

[leaden flare]

C1B has a lower alpha which doesn't really matter in most cases
The turret is insane but when hit with HE due to it being rather flat you get a lot crits which can be quite annoying

The only real counter I've found so far was being split apart a bit so that when he wants to shoot 1 guy the other can hit the turret side easily

[nimble zodiac]

Let me flank where one of the other six enemies than the 1B are likely to hold

[unique scaffold]

There are hardly a few positions where you can get sideshots in hulldown tanks without getting too deep in enemy territory to not get easily rushed by their team/TDs
Yes map awareness exists, and I have it
But what is it's use if there is no possible way of flanking the tank in the first place?

You either get nuked by TDs, bled by their meds/campers, and die doing nothing

Flanking also leaves a window open for the enemy team to push my team on the flank I just left
More often than not, one tank leaving the flank is just a big red signal for the enemy team to push because they have one less tank to deal with

[mental pasture]

"it has relatively weak hull armor. It's only good in hull down situations, and it can be beaten by hull down vehicles. If it's at range, take the ding from it and move to a different position that's closer. If you're fighting over the same hill, use your HP and frontal armor to your advantage."
So you admit that the only disvantage of C1Bis a hull that can't even be HEd? well, that's enough. Men and women of all World of tanks Blitz, I'm sadly announcing that for the first time we have a tank with actual weakspot being sold in loot boxes.

Being mobile is just one of the multiple advantages that C1B has over most of the heavies. This, when together with the complete lack of reliable weakspots, low gun values, enormous size or even low HP makes the tank clearly OP

"WG won't nerf it anyways, it's something you can't change, so clearly all you have to do is pray for it do don't hull down front of your team. Deal with it or noob"

Let me mark a little thing: THERE IS NO difference between the guy who argue that Annihilator is balanced because it had low precision (and being forcet to play a long range fight) and the guy who argue that C'B is balanced because you can flank a hull down position (and becoming swiss cheese if there's more enemies left)

[rain ivy]

@unique scaffold Ok, and you have 6 other people. I highly doubt they are all pinned down by the 1B. If they are, then try better to take charge and lead the next match. I guarantee if you speak up and make calls the general public actually will listen most of the time. It's a strategy game. Make a plan and excecute

@mental pasture The T22 medium has basically been untouched since release and is becoming more and more common. What makes you think your complaints will get you anywhere? Sheri lost it's missiles because it was an easy thing to quiet the complainers because it didn't need missiles to perform well and people rarely used them to begin with.

As for weakness, let's see. It's an American so an HE able backside. Generally lackluster HP pool. Only the turret armor is good. Gun is jack of all trades master of none.

It's a solid tank just saying it's broken is hilarious to me. It's in a good spot, just learn to play around it, or if you're so certain it's op like a T22, shell out the money and buy it. Clearly it'll be such a big boost to your stats you'll never need to use your massive, wrinkled brain again.

I do not endorse gambling for pixels but you do you with your money folks

[unique scaffold]

Flanking is a next to non-existent tactic in this game due to the presence of TDs
This may work out in theory where you have a perfect scenario, but it will not work in practical
You can try it, go around the map when someone is hulldown against you and you'll see that you will never even get a chance to distract the hulldown tank
He doesn't need to worry because his TDs will immediately divert their attention to you

There aren't many maps where you can flank in the first place either, most of the times the team splits up
Heavies go one route, meds go other

@rain ivy What are the other 6 tanks going to do?
Me speaking up will motivate like one or two tanks to go flank and now we are in a 5v7 on this flank, 4v7 if I leave so as to not get farmed by the hulldown tank
That just makes it easier for the enemy to rush my team because by the time I even start the flanking fire, my team will be long gone
If I do miraculously manage to convince my entire team to flank, they lose massive chunks of HP while backing out, half will die

[mental pasture]

"WG won't nerf the premium anyways, so don't complain at all" argument

"WOW, LOOK! At least you can HE it's back, it's not like C1B has enough agility to turn to you and avoid that"
"WOW, LOOK! At least it doesn't have a Maus-like HP pool"
"WOW, LOOK! Aside from being a literal hull down tank, you can penetrate the hull with AP"
"WOW, LOOK! The gun works very well for every moment, but at least it's not an incredible gun"

Flank it even if there's a whole team alive or buy it, gg ez

shell out the money and buy it
I do not endorse gambling for pixels

This man is literally the stereotype of the "But Annihilator is balanced!" guy

[rain ivy]

@unique scaffold Really? I've rarely had trouble with flanks, outside of me just being outnumbered due to me taking a risk and meeting two mediums while I'm in my lone med.

And you never know what will happen untill you do something. That's what makes life interesting. Sometimes you need to take a chance. If you don't like facing concept 1bs then play lower tiers and enjoy that mess. Or you could always stop playing all together. Why play something you don't like playing?

@mental pasture "WOW, LOOK! I play a 7 v 7 game and don't want to use basic thought to play the game!"

"WOW, LOOK! I lost to a new tank a couple times and its definitely not my fault, it's everything and everyone else's!"

"WOW, LOOK! I have a place I can whine that everything but me is wrong and I don't have to give proper response or thought to a topic because I don't like what you got to say."

Clearly you're so cool and definitely a professional player. We are not worthy of being in your presence.

Can't handle playing against a new tank
Complains on discord about the tank

This man is the definition of the stereotype of the "It's not a skill issue when I die in a match after I yoloed the 4005 platoon in my Batchat." guy.

[unique scaffold]

The chance I'm taking has next to no chance of success

As I said before, this may work in theory, never will in practical
Perhaps the few once in a blue moon exceptions but other than those?
Big nope

[hearty steeple]

Just flank gg ez.
Just aim gg ez.

[rain ivy]

Same could be said about the AE phase 1 dropping from battle pass crates. It probably won't happen but when it does it's a wonderful feeling.

It might not seem like it, I do enjoy the talk and I appreciate the more levelheaded responses from you and I'm sorry if I came off as if I was blowing up at you as it wasn't my intention. It's hard to maintain multiple conversations with a slow mode on. Take care of yourself out there.

@hearty steeple Just win gg ez 🤔

[mental pasture]

Alright, I'd like to see you flanking a C1B on early game then, let's see if you're all pro and unicum only discord

Well, that's what OP tanks do, they make you die a couple of times, but not like other tanks do as balanced tanks have multiple disvantages that stay present all the time, meanwhile C1B has 1 disvantage which disappears as another ridge appears

Proper response = something that agrees with me or that does not mock me by saying "I know that the tank is not balanced, so buy it". I can say the same for this whole comment tho
A topic that I know = agreeing with you

You didn't even copied the contradiction correctly, not being able to handle an OP tank like Annihilator or C1B leads to complains in discord

Funny enough, a platoon of 4005 brings disvantages for the team as it's more tanks that can't hold frontlines, meanwhile a platoon of C1Bs carry no disvantages for the team (actually much of the otherwise, the meta is hull down)

[unique scaffold]

It does, but it's not exactly balanced then if it only works out in rare scenarios is it

And nope, no offense taken, you're just defending your point of view and maybe are frustrated on something else that often comes out while conversing with other people
Thanks for a civil discussion as well, most others would've started insulting heavily by now

Happy Holidays!

[rain ivy]

That's the thing, while the Anihilator (Where's the P&F meme at?) has absurd base stats, consumables, and a gimmick that make it arguably the strongest tier 7 in the game the concept has ......

Average stats but great hulldown potential? Huh? That can't be right. The T22 has the armor of a heavy, the one of a kind inverted pike, a 6 second reload on a decent Russian gun. A turret that is among the strongest for a medium outside of hulldown meds in hulldown. It can perform Medium, heavy, and light roles with scary effectiveness.

Meanwhile the Concept has one thing going for it. It can get to a hill and hull down. It does that well. But what else can it do?

Can it be a medium? Perhaps, but that's a heavy not on the frontline.

Can it be a light? Definitely not. Doesn't have the camo or view range.

Can it be a TD? /Please don't do this in regular matches. You become the true scum of blitz./ No.

So it's broken because it's good in one role? I mean if you insist... But other tanks can and have performed this role just as good if not a little better.

Also trying to make sense out of what you typed has hurt my pea brain. Congratulations.

As for the prior reply, I'm simply showing how stupid and ineffective a reply like that is. If you want to convince me that I'm wrong then don't pivot into whack stuff like that. It makes us all look stupid.

@unique scaffold Same to you! I'm very much a give what I take. If I'm given sass I reply with sass and if given well structured arguments I do my best to replicate. Stay safe this weekend!

[mental pasture]

Well, it indeed had absurd stats. It's a Kranvagn without all the weak parts like size, speed, mobility, DPM and nice target to high caliber HE

It's not only average stats, it's now the best hull down tank in the game due to the size of it's turret
Even tho I agree that T22 medium have a heavy tank armor and is indeed op, it's not a good idea to play it llke a heavy, it lacks enormously of the HP and penetration to fight tanks like E100, Wz131 or T110E3

Well, Annihilator is also only good on the heavy tank role, actually it also can me a medium but as you just said: that's a heavy not on the frontline.

[frail silo]

you keep ignoring the fact that the C1B sacrifices nothing to get what it has.
and saying "just flank" is not an argument either, as you said it is a 7vs7 match. you can't "just" flank the tank it has 6 other teammates.
also, no tank beats it in its role lol. where'd you get that from?
and why is it about the stats of the people debating you and not the objective facts about the tank?
oh what is this? you are complaining about a tank? must be a skill issue. can't be anything else!

[mental pasture]

It's worth to copy and paste the disvantages of the major hull down tanks in the have and compare them with C1B

"- Badger is turretless, massively slow in speed and agility, extremely poor sides and rear

• Kranvagn is slow and have a bad agility, extremely poor DPM, massive size and the turret can be targeted by high caliber HE
• T110E5 (current version) have a very slow turret, low DPM, extremely poor sides and rear, cheeks become a weak spot against 340mm HEAT, can be targeted by high caliber HE
• T110E3 is extremely slow without the OP consumable and for the mobility which stills bad even with it, turretless, extremely bad sides and rear, long reload
• IS-7 have a poor ammo rack, poor gun angles that makes a lot of hull down areas unavailable, can be targeted by high caliber HE
• 60TP have a poor ammo rack, long reload, can be targeted by high caliber HE, have excessive size
• T62a have low alpha, can be targeted by high caliber HE, low HP, extremely poor hull"
  Meanwhile C1B just have a weak hull, not even extremely weak, just weak

Sorry for the wall copied of text

[rain ivy]

1. It doesn't shine in anything statwise. Compared to other heavies that get a distinct benefit but in turn takes a distinct weakness. The 1b gives nothing so it gains nothing. The only thing that is unique about it is the turret, but you could say that for a lot of hulldown tanks.

2. Just flank is an argument in that tactics is how you win. You don't win on stats alone unless you're that weird dude that brought MS-1s to T10 matches back in the day. You win with teamwork and tactics. He can only shoot one person, so catch them in a crossfire. You have 6 teammates and so do they. If you want to be a lone wolf, expect to not succeed as much as a well oiled team.

3. T22 medium is pretty good hull down. As is the IS-7, IS-4, Yoh, E5, etc.

4. I haven't once said anything about stats about the player. I'm pointing out that if you choose not to do basic things that most if not all good players promote to others in various guides on YouTube, forums, Discord, DMs, etc. Then it's a you issue, not a tank issue at that point.

[royal moon]

thats pretty decent, an hulldown is4./is7 and 60tp / kranvagn basically immune))) would be even tougher why no one rage at these invicible turrets?))) e3 is basically god in hull down too 🙂 )))

[uneven narwhal]

That was sarcastic for "It's extremely broken"

IS-4 is a great tank
IS-7 is a greater tank
60TP is broken

[rain ivy]

For comparison; Here is a comparison of stats of some of the more common hulldown heavies. The only thing it has is a decent top speed, tied with the AMX M4 mle. 54.

Argue with me if you must, but the sheer numbers don't lie. Nothing shines in terms of stats. The only thing it has is the turret, which can only point in one direction at a time. I'm out. I need sleep and this has become tedious at this point. Caio.

[mental pasture]

1- It actually does give a perk, the incredible perk to be the true jack of all trades. You can act like a heavium/second line heavy when your team does need support or stop a whole team just by sitting behind a ridge. Just to note, Badger and Kranvagn do pay a heavy price for these jobs, as they're extremely slow and all they can do is also second line job or hull down.

2- If the "just flank" argument was true, We'd not see a hull down meta in the game currently. Watch a recent gameplay from a professional tournament, all you'll see are Yohs, 60TPs, a few TDs and perhaps a solid medium, but mostly Yohs and 60TPs

3- As like I said, all the major hull down tanks pay a heavy price for their hull down abilities, even the T22 which I do agree that it's op. Don't forget that even T22 medium has poor HP and very poor penetration (which are quite o a normal things on mediums at tier 10)

4- It's pretty much a justification for the "If you can't kill easily a hull down tank doing hull dow, then skill issue" argument

5- I suppose you could compare the C1B to other tanks as THIS is the main of the discussion, not Kran
Oh wait.. It wouldn't be good for you, as C1B is superior than most of them unless in caliber/alpha and terrain resistance on soft soil
"Argue with me if you must, but the sheer numbers don't lie."

Bonus: on your print, you just proved how heavy is the price that kran pays in order to be, now, the second best hull down tank in the game.

Oh yes, the "you don't have it, then you must have no opinion" argument @royal moon

[royal moon]

i dont think you own one of the 1b and simply imagining things to be op. period @uneven narwhal an hulldown is4./is7 and 60tp / kranvagn basically immune))) would be even tougher why no one rage at these invicible turrets?))) e3 is basically god in hull down too 🙂 )))

[uneven narwhal]

You don't really need to own a tank to say how overpowered it is if numbers and logic is applied
The C1B is blatantly overpowered

It has an impenetrable turret with only a cupola that's smaller than the maps you wish to flank on :v

It sacrifices absolutely nothing for it
Heavium mobility, good gun handling, and the 6/7 th best DPM among T10 HTs

[rain ivy]

I find it interesting how the Kran and Mk6 have been left out. Regardless, I'm tired and don't care to argue with you anymore. It doesn't outshine any of the others by a significant margin, we can't agree anywhere. Professional players don't equal your average chump, which is something to keep in mind when we discuss things like this as the pros would probably put you and me down in an heartbeat in most cases. Most tanks released by WG in t10 get the "It's broken" envy period, but nobody thinks they most of the ones you'll meet are wallet warriors that will perform average or below in it. It backtracks to a skill issue. A bad player can make any tank bad, and a good player can make any tank op in pubs.

Now please, stop pinging me so I can go to bed. Thanks in advance.

[wicked quest]

E3 gets HE spammed hulldown same with Kran and has too low dpm to actually be a big threat 60tps too inaccurate same with is7 and is4 will get he spammed

[uneven narwhal]

Let us see

IS-4 : Lovely tank
IS-7 : Super Strong
60TP: Broken
Kranvagn : Still strong

All of these tanks lack in something
IS-4 and IS-7 gun depression, IS-7 prammo pen and mediocre gun handling
Kranvagn was trashed on after the update since it's turret traverse was nerfed to the ground, it also has bad mobility
E3 is too slow but still strong

It's a pattern here
Hulldown = Good

However, they have weaknesses mentioned above

The C1B sacrifices nothing
Good mobility
10deg GD
2850 DPM, 7th highest among T10 HTs
The 2nd best gun handling among T10 HTs

[royal moon]

what? 1b only shoot you for 380, u can hit him for 600 dmg with 60tp or 930 dmg with 183 , the math is clear here, thats an big disadvantage, its easy to out trade an 1b if u know what u r doing

[mental pasture]

Kran have been left because you already showed it on your OWN print (exactly the one I'm marking), but if you want to see Chieftain too then here it comes.
It indeed more green because have better DPM, penetration, caliber and precision, in shorter words, a better cannon.
Even tho it sacrifices it's own turret as a hull down tank. It have a fairly large "hole" of penetrable armor on the middle of it's turret.

I like how your whole argument became from "It doesn't outshine any of the others" and then you added the "by a significant margin"

Before anything, I made sure to turn the ping off from this comment. Have a good night.

The alpha of C1B stills fit inside of the minimal alpha accepted for a heavy tank; 380 HP, or in other words, the minimal of a 120mm gun (which is a caliber that it doesn't even belong). It's also worth to mention that you'll get no damage at all if you get in a hull down position, thus the 380 vs 600 won't happen. @royal moon

Btw, look how miserable Kranvagn is when compared to C1B, looks like I'm comparing a tier 9 to a tier 10