tank-balance-discussion

[spice silo]

Its not their fault,ghost shells appear when the enemy has package loss.
For you he is there but for him he is somwhere else as the server reads it

[hushed lodge]

Is it possible to do three player platoons?

[uneven narwhal]

Nope

[golden heron]

If we can Three player platoons, im sure someone will make a 3 Smasher, Etc platoon, and u dont want that happend

[uneven narwhal]

3 players are basically half the team, get 3 players in any tanks that know what they are doing and its almost a guaranteed win unless there's a platoon of equal caliber on the opposite team

[fossil spruce]

60tp HE damage absolutely need buff

[dark pike]

nah

[uneven narwhal]

Nope

[frigid elbow]

tiger 2 is getting a dpm and hp buff

[fallow eagle]

Imagine there were 3 player platoons and alot of people playing in platoons 😂
You could get 6 out of 7 players to be from same clan coordinating easily to win matches

[wicked sluice]

No it doesnt,60tp is far too strong rn

[safe rapids]

It actually is the worst performing out of all the polish heavies atm.

Personally the 53TP is the strongest.

[remote oriole]

Same deal as with the Emil II, being the worst of a collection of great tanks doesn‘t make it bad

[twilit crystal]

Emil 2 was bad and now its terrible

[remote oriole]

https://blitzanalysiz.com/update/8.3/tanks/9/heavy-tanks/

Performance charts don‘t support your opinion

[tacit cobalt]

Titan H N very bad tanks

[prisma jetty]

It’s balanced.

[uneven narwhal]

Being worse than someone else tier-for-tier does not make you any less stronger

[ebon lynx]

Balanced

[safe rapids]

It’s more balanced than the 53TP though.

[mossy pollen]

Emil II is actually bad, it's not better than the T54E1 or the AMX 50 120. It's got no turret armor, no speed, no hull armor, terrible dpm, and a lousy gun overall, and the mega speed got nerfed. T54E1 is just not played by good players because they have no reason to grind for the T57, it's not meta. 50 B is, and the Kranvagn is. Therefore, good players will play bad tanks that no one else will if the tank at the end of the line is meta and therefore artificially inflate the wr of the tank.

[safe rapids]

Weird, I absolutely loved the Emil II. A fantastic tank imho. Better than the kran tier for tier.

[quiet meteor]

Emil 2 is just situational, like many tanks. I really didn't like it, but a lot of people do. It's absolutely busted against tier 8s, but facing tier 10s and some tier 9s it definitely encounters issues. Just like the kran, its greatest strength is in holding, and punishing enemies for being aggressive with the same clip a kranvagn puts out.

[safe rapids]

Yes the fact it sees tier 8 makes it so much more fun to play. However I found it quite good against Tier X as well, since it’s just a neutered Kran. Most Tier IX vehicles are just weaker versions of their Tier X counterparts or slightly better versions of their predecessors. Thus, most tier IX tanks are more like a “Tier 8.5” or “Tier 9.5” with very few in between.

[drowsy plaza]

Emil 2 is great for exploitation of poor players - but makes sad turret penetration noises against ones who know it’s limits.

[distant river]

It's not even that weak you just have to use the max gun depression whenever you are hulldown which isn't always possible and most Emil players don't think about it. It's pretty well balanced how it is tbh

[willow hawk]

There’s a big gaping green triangle there. Any decent player can hit the Emil II and pen it despite full hull down and angling. At best this is medium tank armor. Not heavy tank armor for what the Emil family is designed for.

[stuck acorn]

on the other hand making it even stronger, will make it completly busted when facing T8's. And that's a problem. Only way to balance it out is finding something that won't make it much stronger against T8's, but will make it at least usefull against T10's.

For me good idea would be buffing turret armor, but nerfing the hull to be pennable by T8's AP rounds

[distant river]

It's E100 prammo with CS, it's not what it normally faces. Also if you add on enhanced armour it turns straight back to red again. It's far far away from medium tank armour. For example here it is without CS:

[mossy pollen]

I propose a better solution: Make the power gap between tiers smaller. It shouldn't be that a tank is bad if it's "well balanced between tiers" This is the problem with power creep, there are T8s that would be acceptable T9s with a slight buff to HP and firepower and there are T10s that would be acceptable T9s with a slight nerf to HP and firepower. Power creep has destroyed the balance of tiers in this game and turned them into suggestions that you have to slog through to get to the actually good T10 (and sometimes the T10 isn't even good)

[fluid topaz]

I'd say the Emil 2 is still better than the Leo
P. Ter > Leo

[scarlet fjord]

can you resolve the problem of the crew getting killed in 60TP by running defense system and protective kit
i resolved my IS-7 ammo rack problem before it even got buffed just by running defense system and robustness

[drowsy plaza]

@mossy pollen I proposed a .5 tier. Effectively splitting tiers. Makes it easier to balance and all the OP premiums just get bumped to the .5. They won’t see any higher tier (+/-.5mm except 9 would still see 10)

[fluid topaz]

I propose this idea I call, Battle rating
Completely unique, never seen before

[nimble zodiac]

Tiers 1-20 😳

[jagged crescent]

I wonder what would happen if the Leo 1 had better standard pen

[unique scaffold]

Remove annihilator and complenstate all players owning it, or owned it prior and sold 5-8k gold. 😃

[worn valve]

Wotblitz not balance at all lmao

[agile blaze]

So is the vk45.02A buff confirmed?

[full token]

It’s just open test data for now. Changes from there don’t always survive

[agile blaze]

I hope it won't...I like the tank as it is tbh...it just has a different playstyle

[safe rapids]

The mobility will stay. And the DPM will stay. Possibly going to be the new OP beast of 8.5

[quasi axle]

First time I've heard of someone complaining about a buff

[winged barn]

I complain about stupid buffs all the time
Wow, the proper armor profile for the tiger 2 was finally put in the game.
On the wrong tank.

Also, the vk45s not gonna be the op beast
It sacrifices armor, gun depression, pen (lol), and even mobility once super consumables are taken into account all for 108 dpm and accuracy when compared to the big brain balancing decisions of the t32

[versed tide]

Su 130pm got a unneeded buff

[stiff edge]

they have to make it a worthy competitor for skorp lmao

[empty nexus]

For a second I thought it was the Kran and I was like hol upp.
Emil 2 is a great tank, I absolutely love it, prefer it over the Kran and emil 1 personally and I can’t really understand why people say it’s a meh tank

[quasi axle]

I was surprised someone was complaining about a buff to a tank they liked for a non balance reason, complaining about buffs bc they're bad for game balance is different and happens pretty often since wg likes being big brain

[drowsy plaza]

Except the cupola. Plus that assumes one can get max gun dep and a med can’t get there first or be above or beside or…. It’s just not a great tank to fight decent players that is pretty much my point.

[distant river]

Providing you can get to the position and aren't against TD or heavy CS prammo it's as strong as a krans turret. It needs the position to work so that's why it struggles a lot in people's hands, but it's still a decent tank. If you are fighting someone better the tank puts you at a disadvantage, but if you fight someone as good it's probably a tank that gives no advantage or disadvantage, and against bad players it gives a nice advantage.

If you are as good as the person that knows the tanks limits you can still use its armour well but if they are better then you are a bit screwed, like most tanks but the Emil emphasises it more.

[drowsy plaza]

Fair point.

[mossy pollen]

The turret on the Emil II is not nearly as good as the Kran, that's ridiculous. The Kran's turret works on flat ground against mediums, the Emil II's doesn't even work against lower tier mediums with CS on flat ground. The only time the Emil II has a good turret is hull down with max gun depression against equal or lower tier tanks. If you're top tier you're in a good position to really slap stuff and have good tankiness if you can use the armor intelligently, but the same should be true when going against T10 tanks. However, it's not. With the mega speed nerf you're not nearly fast enough to get into a position to fight enemy mediums and lights without eating hellfire on the way there, which negates your HP advantage and your positional advantage. You also are unable to shoot your way out of a situation because of bad DPM meaning that being aggressive against a group of tanks isn't a possibility when your team is losing the flank. The raw carry potential of the tank is almost nonexistent because it requires a specific situation with the enemy sitting in front of it and letting it fully reload it's clip constantly while the rest of your team doesn't just completely collapse on the flanks or even just crumble around you.

[stuck acorn]

that's actually a really good idea when you think about it. But probably WG will never implement that

[tough gyro]

the vindicator is pretty much useless

[nimble zodiac]

That looks actually pretty balanced

Too bad this stuff isn't allowed here

[fluid topaz]

Vindicator is balanced by it's.....vindicator-ness

[gleaming apex]

_Enchantress#2912 has been warned.

[unique scaffold]

I think WG”s balanced team should remove those consumables from kran , 215b , E5 and put back the original stats on it . It it very very useless to nerf the actual tank stats instead of the boosters . These tanks are already balanced and the balance team still nerf them. Just like Droodles said , is the balance team ignore this question? Or you guys don’t understand the question from Droodles If WG balanced team do listen to us, I am sure these three main tanks will have the population increases back. It is very very disappointed to see these three tanks got nerfed like this. I really hope WG balanced team listen and change their mind

[tidal palm]

Time to use is-5 more when aiming time buff

[drowsy plaza]

Dispersion is still trash

[gleaming apex]

ChiStocks#9747 was muted

[jagged crescent]

Based

[unique scaffold]

@wispy leaf read the pinned messages

[dull osprey]

making m41 90 t7 instead of t8

[haughty marsh]

Switching tanks from one tier to another can sometimes be a good idea, like moving the Anihilator and Smasher on tier 8 , ofc they might need to be slightly nerfed to be balanced on tier 8 😉 Any way my biggest gripe with balance is on tier 10 , because that tier used to be really well balanced , before WG decided to add silly stuff like ATGM's and OP consumables. Luckily they removed the ATGM's but the consumables are still annoying , especially after they nerfed some perfectly balanced tanks because they added these OP consumables, like having to use the sand bags on the FV215B to get enough HP to be in line with other T10 heavies, having the tanks statistics nerfed because it has access to super speed boost and reactive armor like the T110E5 .... that's so bad. Most people play this game for the tanks , not for the consumables ... or so I think. Nerfing a tank because it has access to fancy consumables ... that's just bad imo.

[woeful quest]

Sounds like a legitimate Btch to me

[dense yoke]

Why would Wargaming put smasher in tier 8 and nerf? and not even buff it? Why would they even do that, when Smashers and anni generates tons of money to wargaming ? 😫

[nocturne flame]

theyre too op for T7

[uneven narwhal]

no what why?

[tidal palm]

Wdym it's alr good enough for a tier 8 heavy that deals 400 alpha damage

[fluid topaz]

That literally means you can HE derp every tier 6 f

[fluid topaz]

you can 2 shot some tier 6's with HE if you roll on the higher side

[haughty marsh]

Ha ha , yeah, true they bring in a lot of money in for WG - or so I can assume - but they also might scare new players away from the game. Imagine you are a new player, you just got your first T6 tank, and you probably are playing mostly stock and with a bad crew ( since you are still new to the game and don't know better) and you get to T6 and get "smashed" and "annihilated" if you know what I mean. Then you might think: " oh boy if T6 and 7 is so hard, imagine the higher tiers .... and you might not want to play this game further. Long term that loses WG money and even worse , the game will not have many new players coming and playing the game.

[brave dragon]

There has always been an idea that new players will upgrade to stronger tanks as soon as possible, to fight back whatever they struggle against.

[remote oriole]

And that idea lacks any supporting evidence. It‘s merely speculation

[brave dragon]

I don't want to argue about game progression nor word use.

[dense yoke]

If a (p2w) new players spends 40 dollars on this game, then profit for wg. But if new players were to get destroyed by smasher or anni. Then there is a big chance they would just pay stronger tanks to counter them or just trash them. /profit
Regardless, avr monthly playerbase is increasing. It is around 15-20k players

[remote oriole]

That‘s the typical winter peak. Don‘t forget to consider seasonal effects

[drowsy plaza]

As @remote oriole mentioned Blitz has always had season fluctuations. On NA, EU and Ru every fall the average increases. It then decreases in the spring. That’s been happening since 2014. It however doesn’t relate to balance.

[gleaming apex]

abgun3535#5703 has been warned.

[cerulean mason]

Buff the DPM of the AMX 30 B. It’s just collecting dust in garages until then.

[drowsy plaza]

It’s still viable for pubs - don’t get in DPM brawls but yeah it’s been hurt by the recent med buffs.

[formal crescent]

buff kv3 armour and kv2 HE pen by 10 mm

[prisma jetty]

The KV-3 doesn't really struggle and the KV-2 needs a nerf, not a buff lol

[formal crescent]

no the kv2 need a buff on the HE pen since it had been nerfed just to introduce the cancerus cash cow i mean the smasher. and kv3 needs or a mobility buff or a armour buff since it was the armour line but now that the IS is more mobile and has better armour the kv3 needs a mobility or a armour buff and the bigg ones since it is close to literaly useless and very bad at the current meta

[nimble zodiac]

Don't justify a buff for a tank using an OP tank as an example

KV-3 has better armor than the IS

[formal crescent]

actualy yea my idea was bad but the kv3still needs a buff of the turret cheecks or and a buff on the lower plate and maby a pen amount buff on all the guns (exept the stock one) and i think the stock turret needs a little cheek buff like 15 mm.
but the kv3 is curently useless on the meta since the armour diference is little but the IS has a overall better hull desight that uses the armour more efectively meanwhile the KV based chassis get so bad at the kv4 that enhansed armour is nedded. since the kv3 dosent get a buff or a nerf in a while it is outdated on the curent meta maby the kv3 culd get a small armour buff a big mobolity buff and a buff on the pen but a little nerf with in the damage delt. it realy needs to be re fitted on the current meta since it is a quite mobile the armour shuld be buffed but the mobility shuld be nerfed and its penetration valiues are preatty bad and need a buff

[dense oyster]

too many heavies in battle probably. 😢 @abstract parrot

IMO the KV3 doesn't need a buff, the armour is troll. and when angled it bounces a lot. the gun choices are good too. the tank doesn't need a buff, but it is a bit boring to play out of all the TT T7 tanks. 🧐 @formal crescent

rightly said, 👍 @nimble zodiac

[nimble zodiac]

KV-3 can sidescrape without many problems, while the IS has shoulders to worry about, as well as a larger cupola, and more easily penetrable turret cheeks

The penetration is fine too, IS has bad pen if you think KV-3 has bad pen

Tell me, do you think the IS's penetration is bad?

[formal crescent]

even then the penetretions values need a buff becuse aguianse heavyes from my own experience with the tier 8 top tier gun the penetration values need a buff with me using the 122mm D-25T gun the top tier one i even using calibrated shells penetrating still a strugle and normaly for more eazier pen i have to use APCR, altho the ZiS 6 have (somehow) a better penetration amout with APCR and a more efficient AP (somehow). even with calibrated the tank struggles to pen most of the heavies and even some
ps: if both pens are bad then both shuld be buffed! (but with a slight nerf to the dmg for balancing!)

[dense oyster]

the tank's penetration is good for a tier 7 tank. you have the pick the right gun though...
another main thing is the gun choice, you can pick the generic 122m gun, but I wouldn't advise it.

the thing about the 122mm gun is the tank has to be mobile enough to 'shoot N scoot' . so the kv3 with the 122mm gun is a no-no 👎

the 107mm gun is a good choice, it offer decent pen, and handling and alpha, 💯

i always choose the 100mm. because i like the premium pen on it. 😎

the tank is good, albeit not special. try the 100mm gun, it's the best option. 👌

regarding the armour, the tank is quite good, the turret is troll like the indien panzer's. and the hull when in a diamond is tough. 💠

once you master the kv3 playstyle, the kv4 should be a blast. 😀

[nimble zodiac]

KV-3 is more accurate with the 122mm than the 107mm
It has better penetration, better alpha, and isn't then, a worse T29

The KV-3 literally has a standard tier 7 heavy penetration, which I believe is actually higher than average

Also if you like the premium pen, then the 122mm gun offers only 2mm less lol

[formal crescent]

if i suffered to get the 122mm gun to get a top tier gun and i recive a bad gun thats messed up man. the 122mm had actualy higher AP pen (little to none) bit higher altho the 107 mm gun has better DMP
i just think that the KV3 shuld be chanjed to better fit the current meta

[nimble zodiac]

It's fine in tier 7, if you want it buffed, tell me what balanced tier 7 is better than it.

IS is even to KV-3, don't use that.

@dense oyster fine, take a gun that T29 easily beats, and Titan H-N probably has good odds against

[dense oyster]

the 100mm gun is the best option of the tank, the premium pen is 235 (16mm more than the 107mm)

Use the 100mm gun mate! @formal crescent

the only buff i would give it is a engine buff, i would leave its topspeed. but give it better hp/t ratio. 👌

the pic shows that the gun is good as it is IMO 😎

[quasi axle]

Bruh you're not even comparing it to heavy guns
Also why'd you give a 💯 to chickens post saying 122>100 when you said the opposite

[nimble zodiac]

I think he compared a heavy gun to medium guns, and to TD guns to show the acceptable place in the hierarchy

Medium < Heavy < TD (Gun-wise)
Though it is foolish to use SU-152's 122mm

[dense oyster]

and @nimble zodiac was comparing the 122 to the 107mm gun, not the 100mm

@nimble zodiac i was just trying to give comunix a broad spectrum of different calibres and the pen of each, 👍
i could have been more succinct but it gets boring if i deliberately chose the same calibres for the comparison.. 🤷‍♂️

[gleaming apex]

Lucky Louie [TOES]#3909 has been warned.

[thick rover]

Yes plez

[unique scaffold]

You don't compare a heavy tanks gun to light tanks or TDs, that's not how it works

[tropic gorge]

BUFF E5

[stuck acorn]

first tehy need to remove super consumables from it then

[tropic gorge]

Idc i need my e5 back

[uneven narwhal]

Yup, remove the Super Consumables and buff it

[gleaming apex]

이이선망#9671 has been warned.

[hidden quest]

Wg should remove all the super consumables then buff back those tanks to make the game more playable

[marsh thunder]

All you kids don't know the pain of tumour E5. These days you have way more HP, stronger armour by so much and premium is (happily) nerfed. The tank used to be a 2k hp morsel for any tank in the game lol.

[prisma jetty]

The tank used to require a lot more skill to play, and was actually rather fun. Now it’s just “Oh no, I’m about to be shot, lemme just take 20% less damage. Oh you’re trying to run? Lemme just activate my super speed and catch you.” It’s not as skill based of a tank as it used to be, and it’s kinda sad

[dense oyster]

so true, all it need are the super consumables removed, and then given back the old DPM, 👌

what was making it meta was that the heavy's were zooming to the med sides with the super consumables.. 🦸

if WG removed it, then it wont be a problem and it can have its old DPM back😁

(likewise the fv215b... and kran....) 👀

[quasi axle]

Remove heavies!

[prisma jetty]

Reject heavies, embrace meds and lights

[thorn storm]

I much rather have a speedy light than a slow heavy.

[drowsy plaza]

The tumor wasn’t as big an issue then. You could barrel block and jockey. But I was happy to see it get surgery along with the Fatton.

However the 2014/15 E5 was in a better spot then than it is now with the nerf’s.

Frankly I’d be happy to roll back to pre provisions and pre 3.8 equipment too when dumping the Super Consumables - and only the one time use consumables

[uneven narwhal]

+1

[uneven narwhal]

1. Don't complain about MM here
2. Don't complain about MM anywhere tbh
3. Skill issue
4. If you give noobs their own bracket, you got no one on the enemy team to farm off off
5. Skill issue lol

[safe rapids]

I’d be ok with that, except the single use consumables would not fly well with the general player base. I would though, at one point, would like to see an equipment rework. I have some ideas for a new system where the available options correspond to the tank type plus some universal equipment.

[fallow eagle]

Kinda sad to see fv215b a tech tree t10 heavy being played less compared to it's same nation premium counterparts
Seems the nerf had a lot of impact even if it was small
(The bottom numbers below % are the number of players playing the tank in the past 90 days)

[uneven narwhal]

FV215b really had an undeserved nerf
I understand WGs PoV that nerfing other heavies while keeping 215b the same might result in the 215b meta in tournaments again but I dont see how encouraging aggressive gameplay in tours is a bad thing

The 215b can be made relevant again by removing the super consumables, rebuffing its DPM to original, and giving it a bit more armor

[empty nexus]

If there are no noobs, there’s no one to farm, and those high damage games we love won’t exist

[gleaming apex]

Niclauz#5721 was muted

[thick rover]

ufp or turret armour?

[uneven narwhal]

Preferably UFP
So that it can bounce against people who cant aim but also not remain comfortably hulldown
Although I cant remember how strong the UFP already is since I've see no 215bs recently

[outer glen]

Uhh..

[brave dragon]

This is not a tank balance issue.

[gleaming apex]

furball_rules#6180 was muted

[unique scaffold]

i think they need to buff again FV215b, buff a little the Lowe's lower plate

[nimble zodiac]

1. The Lowe is fine
2. Buffing the lower plate would honestly do nothing, well, unless it's at least by 20mm, which is crazy

[karmic hull]

@lusty silo i think the stb-1 should get a buff to its gun, leopard 1 for instance has the same alpha dmg but less reload and higher penetration than the stb-1.
and then the stb is slower than most mts but has also weak armor stats.
this is my opinion on stb compared to the other mts

[quasi axle]

nearly impenetrable turret with gun depression is weak armor
seems legit.

[gleaming apex]

innocent cat#5989 was banned

[karmic hull]

in my opinion, even though it does have a "nearly" impenetrable turret, it is still slow, especially its acceleration speed, so to make up for its weak armor it should have good speed or acceleration which it doesnt... the leo 1 doesnt have good armor, but has good speed, and the gun depression, progetto has a good gun and armor too, bounces a lot, e50m, good armor, more faster and more hp, and maybe i dont even need to talk about the soviet medium tanks ;-;

[quasi axle]

The armor isn't weak, and I honestly don't know what to tell you if you think the prog 65 has better armor than the stb 1

[real bison]

It gets to important positions on time, if you want, run engine boost and double repairs

or run double fuel + 10% food

[drowsy plaza]

@karmic hull dude, the STB is a really well positioned med right now. It isn’t the fastest - but it’s low profile and has a solid turret. If you made it faster to would remove any purpose to several other mediums.

[hidden quest]

Wat about the m46 Patton.. no one rly thinks that it's underpowered?

[wicked quest]

Almost most of what you said is wrong stb literally has the most gun depression over the leopard progettos gun is considered highly inferior to counterparts and is on par with protection with stb e50m is just stupid and the Russians are their own league

[fossil copper]

Good bye FV215B, you are not op in the current meta and I want to see this tank with a buff in the future

[drowsy plaza]

Even since the Type 61 got the DPM buff the M46 Patton has been lagging hard. The lack of a decent pen shell and mediocre mobility means it’s struggling in X more often than not - but it still seal clubs 8 like a beast.

The problem is how to buff it so it doesn’t totally ruin folks when it’s high tier and yet is more practical when low tier.

The jump from the 46 to 48 now is pretty significant

Fatton has more DPM with CS than 46 Patton does with rammer. The pen isn’t even funny

[safe rapids]

I’d say buff the penetration by 5 mm on both standard and prammo, problem solved. Maybe buff turret a bit but increase the dispersion or aim time. I really don’t know.

[karmic hull]

Hmm I see
Also why is the e50m bad, it looks good when playing against it, I’ve never played it myself however

[versed tide]

Stb1 goes faster than it’s main competitor the m48 by like 5 kph and has more armor

[median raven]

ended with the E5, the 11s recharge was very bad

[uneven narwhal]

He said E 50 M is stupid as in it's stupid strong

[karmic hull]

Oh... right. It is I feel too, it got a buff sometime before that’s why maybe

[nimble zodiac]

Just look at how you can't read pinned messages

You pretend that this is a problem that can be fixed

[uneven narwhal]

We all get bad teams, no one wants to look at yours

[twin egret]

FV215b meta stands menecingly against WG

[gleaming apex]

Suxks_Tosuck698#4592 was muted

pico#6579 has been warned.

[scenic void]

The IS3 Defender should get a massive frontal armor buff. Right now it kinda falls short to premiums like the 252U. It is power crept. Any tier 7 tank can penetrate its front armor as soon as they load premium rounds so it’s kinda paper. I do suggest buffing the about 205mm of frontal armor to about 280mm. That way, it won’t be power crept anymore. Now about the T28 Defender, it’s more like a HT than a TD. To make it more like a TD either buff the alpha to 450 and/or buff the penetration to like 265mm. I’d love to hear opinions on my statements but please be gentle replying to me.

[covert marlin]

that wasn't complaining? I was asking a question and explaining my situation? congratulations on failing to see that👍

instead of finding any reason to issue a warning, heres a tip for the shortsighted moderator that took down my comment. remedy the situation, don't dismiss it.

Bad- "this isn't the place to complain about your ping"

Good- "please refer to the _____ channel for inquiries about this matter"

I understand this isn't the place for this, but it needs to be addressed.

@uneven narwhal you have me mixed up with someone else👍

[uneven narwhal]

Alr my bad

[hidden quest]

The problem is its lack of turret armor which is ironic when both Pershing and m48 has turret armor but why not m46? The turret armor is the only thing that makes this line spectacular in my opinion

[nimble zodiac]

Ah yes, I wish to remove the point of t7 prammo by making my armor stronger

Perhaps fixing up the 20mm roof will help its hulldown situation, it operates a lot like T-2020, using gun depression to strengthen the upper plate to work against tier 8 standard rounds (but then again T-2020 doesn't have to use GD for lots of tier 8 standard rounds)

[leaden flare]

Buff it's intra clip and done, it will be pretty strong again
The 7,5s are just very outdated espacially when 1 tier above tanks do 400 with 3s intraclip and at t8 tanks also do 320 in 3s so why not give it like 3,5 or 4s intraclip instead of buffing Armor so it's get a boring rush B heavy tank

[scenic void]

I suppose that buff would be nice as well. But shouldn’t the T28 Defender intraclip be bugged too?

[hearty tinsel]

Crusader6 [III] NA#7407 hi moderator

[stuck acorn]

Yeah. Both of them should recieve this buff. I would be even fine with 3s intraclip on T28 def, it's a TD after all. But on the other hand buffing defenders would ruin whole point of their tech tree counterparts even more. With IS-3 it still maybe would be kinda workable idk, haven't played it for quite a long while now, but for the T28 prot it would be uhhhhh... T28 prot even now is kinda useless and after buffing the defender it would completly loose it's point of existance in this game

[terse loom]

.-.

[vital basalt]

3s intraclip would be good againsts tier 8s and 9s but think about against tier 7s, 6 seconds and boom a tier 7 tank is gone also T28 prot isnt kinda useless, its competely useless lol probably worst tank at tier 8

[remote oriole]

Three seconds intraclip is definitely op for 400 alpha at tier eight. I rather propose lowering the interclip so you don‘t have as much downtime between magazines

[uneven narwhal]

1200 clip in 6s at T8 🥴

[gleaming apex]

Tonii [ZNTHB]#8717 has been warned.

[drowsy plaza]

Pershing has no turret armor. The mantlet is non existent. But yeah both it and the 46 could do with turret armor buffs - frankly I’d be fine with the current 46 pen if the gun was just a little bit more accurate

[versed tide]

T28 defender > 4.5 interclip is3d > 5.5 interclip

[leaden flare]

thats better but still pretty eh id go with 3,5 and 4 but since its hard to change other things because they dont like nerfing i think 4,5 and 5 would be a good choice to test it

[distant river]

Why are people asking for an IS3def buff lol

It's fine how it is, plenty short enough clip reload to trade better than other 122s, but has weakness of a long reload. A 4 second intraclip would be stupidly op.

[uneven narwhal]

none of the two need a buff

[leaden flare]

i actually have no idea why they are that far up in the list and no idea where those battles come from because i see basically no is3d in t8

[distant river]

Because they aren't bad tanks, the IS3def is a balanced tank in a tier of op prems but it still performs almost exactly on par with average WR at that tier

[drowsy plaza]

I thought this was the meme channel for a bit when folks mentioned IS-3D or 28 Defender buffs

[uneven narwhal]

You shouldn't have
The meme channel isn't even remotely funny

[scenic stone]

IS3D is plenty strong, intraclip shouldn't go below 7s considering it has 1.2k in clip and is fairly mobile with good turret. Id rather they buff the gun handling a bit.

[slim trellis]

Why does the emil 1 have reticle calibration. What is the point in letting heavies snipe

[terse tinsel]

pls give the m7 yoh something to make it decent in t7. it dosent have no armor nor dpm nor accuracy nor speed. all it has is a mediocre 7 degrees and above average pen.

[safe rapids]

Its a fairly decent support tank. I’d just increase the top speed or nerf the T29 since that’s the real problem.

[terse tinsel]

the gun is exactly like the prebuffed t29 one . its too inaccurate for a second line heavy

[distant river]

The T29 has not needed any of the buffs it's got so pls don't use that as a way to justify another buff

[winged barn]

The t29 still gets alpha traded by some other heavy tanks. This is unacceptable! How has wargaming not fixed this yet!

[terse tinsel]

what am i supposed to compare it with then

[distant river]

T29 with the 155 from the T30 next update

[slim trellis]

Is3 needs upper plate or accuracy buff (mainly accuracy, 0.433 dispersion with 9 sec aim time is horrifying)

[prisma jetty]

It’s getting an aim time buff (which it doesn’t really need)

[nimble zodiac]

The accuracy of IS-3's top gun with both food provisions is 0.362 and 3.08s 🤨

@scenic void M3 Lee may be a medium but it plays like a TD, don't confine tanks by class

[twin egret]

That'll just make T28 OP

[scenic void]

It's supposed to be a TD. Give it features that make it a TD. Right now it plays like a HT.

[prisma jetty]

Because there aren’t plenty of other TDs that play like heavies.

[terse tinsel]

t28 has decent frontal armor

[remote oriole]

The T28 Defender has nothing appealing to advanced players. As the performance stats show it‘s fairly good for bad players but the better you are as a player the more useless it becomes due to lacking distinct characteristics that you could exploit

[twin egret]

It's... It's an assult tank destroyer... do you want the tank to be a camping TD?

[scenic void]

No I don't think so.

[nimble zodiac]

LOL FV301 using CS with heavy standard pen
But yeah, it fails to those standard+ guns
The autoloader is the main feature, T28D is limited by the already terrible T28P

[unique scaffold]

it was stronger a year ago, got powercreeped

[bronze vector]

IS3D definitely needs a buff, those mentioning it has 1200 clip fail to realize it deals that in 15 seconds, as if you have the chance to deliver that and not to mention you will miss 2/3 shots because of it horrible aim time and accuracy.

[slim trellis]

Even if these are the stats of the top gun without equipment, it is still a terrible tank

[nimble zodiac]

I'm pretty sure that's a Blitz mistake, the databases indicate differently.

[bronze vector]

These are the real stats of the IS3D gun, with best provisions and equipment, dispersion is average at best but that aim time is absolutely horrendous not to mention 7.5 second intra clip is awful.

Edit; sorry, I thought you were referring to the IS3D gun, although stock IS3 gun needs a buff as well

[nimble zodiac]

The stock gun does not need a buff

It's stock, the point is for it to be bad

[drowsy plaza]

Yeah terrible. Just to verify how bad the IS-3 is, I took it out solo for 8 games and only managed a Unicum WN8 and 75% WR. Oh wait, if it was actually bad I’d had a Super Unicum Wn8. Play it as a heavium and it is fantastic

[drowsy plaza]

Stock tanks aren’t supposed to be competitive with maxed tanks. Otherwise there is no incentive to grind it out - or free exp it.

[scenic stone]

My 74% WR and 89% accuracy after 600+ games in IS3D say otherwise tbh.
Anything more than very slight QoL changes would be too much.

How about server stats then?
IS3D is 5th in WR and accuracy compared to all other T8 HTs.
Only beaten by Somua, T54, Emil and 252u.

[quasi axle]

personal stats shouldn't be used to justify balance decisions!

[slim trellis]

Those stats are for the top gun if the tank does not have equiment or top crew. The only 122mm russian/chinese ht clone that is worse than the is3 is the t2020. It is worse than most same tier hts, and cannot do a thing against higher tier hts due to the terrible disperion that prevents it from hitting weakspot unless in a facehug situation. I don't think it needs a massive armor buff, I just think that it needs a slight accuracy buff (change it to 0.36 but keep the aim time) in order for it to work as a heavium/ to let it hit cupolas from medium/close range.

[spring magnet]

@drowsy plaza I am sorry about this misunderstanding, please hear with @slim trellis as he is our clans resident “skill issue player”

[slim trellis]

sped is here to troll me :/

[bronze vector]

Dunno where did you get that it is only beaten by those tanks, here you have proof that you're wrong.

[winged barn]

How about this, why don't we just give the is3d a 1200 alpha gun with a 30 second reload
or is that dropping the clip too fast?

As the is3d is now, it our reloads 105mm heavies with a 122mm. How is that in need of a buff? As long as you are not isolated or sitting in the open the clip reload doesn't really hurt it at all. The reload also gives time to relocate without wasting dpm.
The is3d doesn't even lose dpm compared to the is3, and it gains a far burstier gun.

Also I would like to take a moment to draw attention to tier 9 120mm clippers
The emil2 at 3.5sec hurts
The amx50120 has 0 armor, no depression, is giant, and is a tier higher. It pays heavily for being able to burst out tier 8 tds
Tier 7s wouldn't stand any chance against that much firepower

Or do we need a tier 8 annihilator?

[bronze vector]

"out reloads 105mm", yeah sure, it barely does out reloads M4 49, and you get vulnerable for a whole 22 seconds after that, not to mention the gun is unreliable, you're mentioning Emil and AMX, they have far superior gun handling and IS3D armor is mediocre, 7.5 seconds is way too much and the numbers don't lie, you can clearly see IS3D is under performing and several YouTubers have already talked about it, it has been severely power creeped.

[drowsy plaza]

https://blitzanalysiz.com/update/8.3/tanks/8/

Maybe go look at the actual results.

[uneven narwhal]

IS-3D is currently the 9th best performing Heavy Tank among the 103 T VIII tanks in WR category according to BlitzStars as well
I don't see how that demands a buff

[unique scaffold]

Kran needs a stronger turret: it’s known for a strong turrrt YET Literally everything can pen it’s turret face it’s so bad. I rest my case

[frail silo]

bait^

[twin egret]

Angle.

[scenic void]

Cheeks are still weak.

[radiant zodiac]

You must be either brawling or not putting your turret up when needed and mistaking those shots for “turret face” shots. I don’t recall getting any hits on my turret while playing the kran (unless he/hesh)

[unique scaffold]

I do I have a screen shot of what the turret looks like from enemy perpective

[radiant zodiac]

Never really had to come across a td like this so that’s interesting

[unique scaffold]

I have the armor buff too

[uneven narwhal]

This is on flat ground
Ideally it's going to be looking down at you

[nimble zodiac]

@unique scaffold best turret in the game armor wise already
I rest my case

Otherwise, skissue <3

They meant angling even sharper with gun depression, lookin up only to hide the cupolas

[unique scaffold]

Actually he was looking up at me

[uneven narwhal]

You just disproved yourself lol

[twin egret]

Every tank has to have some weakspot no?

[uneven narwhal]

It's already good

[uneven narwhal]

<@&481447501690568709>

Thanks

[bold dagger]

👍

[brave dragon]

MM is not a tank balance issue. @spice birch

[gleaming apex]

Sakamostro#5009 was banned

[winged barn]

M8, that kran was barely using its gun depression the 110e3/e4 are also the 2nd best guns in the game when it comes to penetration

bait taken, waiting for reeling in

[upbeat sphinx]

release preferential matchmaking for Smashers too, not only anni should face each self in equal number per team, but smashers too. They are way too much influential in tier 6, basically a samsher can two shot a tier 6 heavy.

[golden turret]

Lol he complained about kran needing a turret buff and then hoped we would agree and not take a look at the surroundings in the picture. And even on sort of flat ground, as you can see the E3 has insane premium rounds and it looks like you have a 50/50 chance to pen. I think it’s safe to say, kranvagn does not need a buff

[uneven narwhal]

He also further admitted that the Kran was looking up at him (which he is not, he's on flat ground), which further weakened his point xD
Don't know what was the point of lying against yourself

[neat crescent]

@unique rock tiger 2 is getting big ¨offensive buffs¨ in regards to its attacking capabilities, who in their right minds would buff a tank in every aspect and make it a mbt without nerfing some aspect, this seems like a rework for me, rather than some nerf to be sad about, and isu has always performed greatly even if you nerf its turn rate, and a slower turn rate means a better aiming while turning, its not a tank meant for CQC situations anyway, though the buffs on the su-130PM do really seem unneeded entirely, as for the shark, its just got a slightly better turn rate, that wont make it op, just more flexible in some situations

[full token]

The isu wasn’t over performing. The rebalance wasn’t necessary. It was a decent glass cannon. Lacked the hp, armor to take hits but it had everything in the gun. The traverse will hurt more than the hp will help it. Maybe now it just won’t get one shotted with HE that often, but 5° will be noticeable since every td can get into a CQC situation where an enemy rushes it. It also has poor gun arc so it relies on the traverse to turn and adjust targets quickly

[remote oriole]

To be honest the ISU was only really weak against high caliber guns (due to the low hp, high dpm, and the fact that you can HE it with enough HE pen). I believe that mobile tanks (regardless of their alpha) should be more competitive against the ISU and the nerf achieves just that. I don‘t see the ISU particularly hindered in its role as camper or high alpha-high dpm damage dealer

[nimble zodiac]

ISU-152 is a glass cannon because despite having a 152mm gun, it loses trades to 105mm heavies because of the serious lack of HP. I assume that's why WG is buffing it, to compete against heavies like it should be

I'm aware you can just stay hidden and not get shot, but it usually can't abuse 15m bushes and then maintain line of fire to enemies

@remote oriole just goes to show how dumb the heavy HP buffs were =)

[remote oriole]

At the same time, it wins all trades against mediums which I find questionable. The ISU-152 is both competitive against heavies and dominating against mediums

[neat crescent]

i can say with confidence that my first 15 matches i do in an isu when i decide to use it are always over 2.5k and reasonably doing 4k+ on good matches, while i cant win all matches currently regardless of mobility its a great tank agaisnt anything as it is, i dont think a mobility nerf will hinder it, while it might make shots on moving targets harder, that has always been a bit rng/luck based, sure enough i´ve never won proper fights agaisnt good players up close whenever alone by self, which is why its also a tank not meant to be played solo, if ur caught solo and cant fight back due to mobility i gotta say thats your fault, isu´s got a great camo and gun, such that t8s armor is ignored like a t10 ho-ri aiming at them, like many tanks its a tank meant for team play not for solo 7-0´ing strats

[minor minnow]

<@&481447501690568709>

[vivid torrent]

?

[fluid topaz]

1. This is balance discussion
2. There is a channel for that

[brave dragon]

#909117768379564052

[gleaming apex]

Vhelm#2233 has been warned.

[cold ocean]

I think the type 61 needs a mobility buff. It has the same speed as the Centurion 7/1 while having paper armor...

[twin egret]

^^^ I guess so, it is lacking, so is the STA-1, those two tanks need something to make them at least enjoyable/passable to play.

On another note, buff FV215b backk :(

[slim trellis]

Imagine not being able to think of a counter argument so you use the 😂

[drowsy plaza]

It got a major DPM buff a while ago. It has a fantastic gun — doesn’t need a buff at all.

[cold ocean]

So is the Leopard 1. Even then the Leo is an very hard tank to play. I think they should give the type 61 more mobility but nerf the DPM to like 2.5k. I cant contest any key locations and must let my team go first. And so I rely too much on my teammates for the outcome of the game

[quasi axle]

nerfing dpm to 2.5k would make it irrelevant

[drowsy plaza]

The 61 can contest at lot of places simply due to its DPM and gun handling. The M46 Patton is in a way worse spot as far as tier 9 meds go, as it’s got unreliable armor and poor to abysmal pen when low tier The 61 has pen.

[leaden flare]

Well type 61 is pretty fun to fight against espacially in 152mm guns that can just he the huge cupola for 1k dmg while it couldn't even shoot you back😂

[unique scaffold]

...

[round sundial]

But Cent has terrible DPM tho. It has HESH, sure, but it looses high pen premium and HESH Is quite unreliable at times, too.

Tbh I didnt mind playing the Type61 thanks to the amazing gun. I don't think it needs a buff.

[real bison]

it has joint best view range at tier 9

also, the fact that you are not first into combat often means people ignore you, which means you can sneak shots in, you have the reload to support others, unlike the 7/1, and the gundep to actually hide most of your tank unlike the PT A

Play all 3 tanks and you’ll realise the Type 61 has its own place in tier 9, it can spot, and spot theoretically better than the VCR due to the fact it has a tall cupola, meaning that you can spot while not endangering your tank

[cold ocean]

I guess that playing a downtiered slow Leopard 1 is still possible (Ive done 3k+ dmg games with the Type 61 and I think that playing this tank stock truly traumatized me and my opinion about it has been biased 😆)

[ruby pendant]

Buff is4 pls ;-;

[uneven narwhal]

It doesn't need one

Just because someone is better than you, does not mean you are not bad at the thing that you're being compared at
The Vickers is slower than the BatChat and Sheridan
Does it mean it needs a mobility buff? no
👇

[nimble zodiac]

It's amazing people actually say IS-4 needs a buff now

I wish there was a channel message before coming here every time that mentions that a tank doesn't need a buff only because another tank performs better. 😤

[prisma jetty]

IS-4 still has the same armor, the same mobility, and 340 HEAT pen. It does not need anything

[safe locust]

you might want to take off heavy role from french HTs

[full token]

They are heavy though. Just because they have some mobility doesn’t mean they need to be called mediums

Being a heavy isnt all about armor either

[safe locust]

can be penetrated by HE easily, or because of it's size?

do you mind to make your opinion clear? everything you know. what was it all about, heaviums? because this line cant take some serious shots

50 100 is about to get an armor buff, that's an OK i guess regarding the rest of the line

[dense yoke]

I think a tank is classified heavy by their weight or something.
Like heavy alot of heavy tanks have more weight than the other counterparts (lights, td, meds). Also Mau and, E100 are only heavies. They are super heavies. (100 tons or something) I would say that JGE100 is also super heavy tank destroyer.

[elfin wing]

It is more about their role in battlefield. A little bit of googling might help a lot.

[dense yoke]

No both

[marble cobalt]

i mean there is also damage and armour

[safe locust]

alright alright, i would like to point something out. Take a look of KV-4 or the Mauschen, they are literal fortress and amazing fighter, and they took the word "heavy" as a whole and it's alike to phrase of "Hey! Look at me! shoot at me!"

and these french heavies are missing one of those important points

regardless to the other heavy competitors, 50B is a well made tank for tournaments

[full token]

If you call the 50B line mediums it really won’t fit. They’re not fast enough, and they have a lot of hp compared to mediums, and their guns pack more punch

[safe locust]

of course they do, fitting to their heavy roles

[dusky anchor]

are there any other changes other than t8?

[uneven narwhal]

https://blitzhangar.com/en/update/8-5-preview

[nimble zodiac]

Ok and? This has nothing to do with tank balance

[stiff edge]

he's balancing the tank wym

[winged barn]

I dunno, I would call that breaking it

[gleaming apex]

_SpecialSnowflake#7848 has been warned.

[burnt venture]

"The Smasher and the Annihilator are premium tanks. We have never nerfed such vehicles and definitely don't want to do that. We admit those two perform better than other tier VII tanks, however the amount of them doesn't affect balance system so much. And we don't think nerf is crucial and necessary in this case."

[frail silo]

this is just pure luck though

[burnt venture]

it's a joke lol, imagine talking seriously about balance issues here thinking WG will listen

[remote oriole]

If you aren’t here to talk about balance - why are you here?

[burnt venture]

I'm here to make fun of WG's balancing and the players who talk as if WG will listen to them directly and change things to their bidding, because alas that's what this discord is good for.

Ofc I still give my opinion here and then but doesn't mean I can't post the occasional clowning on WG memes once in a while, yet people here take it seriously all the same lmao. You can say something as ridiculous as "let's ban all 40%ers in the game" and you'll have players actually taking it mega seriously and almost rioting as if you somehow were being serious, because they actually believe in the hoax that is WG listening to individual player feedback 100% of the time.

So you tell me how to talk about balancing then lol

[gleaming apex]

GRcatman_glad92#6023 has been warned.

[drowsy plaza]

Looks at 8.5 tank changes. Looks up Tank performance, looks up balance in dictionary . Shakes head.

[remote oriole]

Fair enough, but looking at the record of people this channel has seen it‘s difficult to tell if some people are serious or not

[drowsy plaza]

Fair point. @burnt venture is fairly known though. He’s not a random person coming in with a woe is me complaint.

[leaden flare]

I mean the clantag gives it somewhat away
Good clan usually means smort people
@burnt venture I know the smart part was meant towards game knowledge usually if a good player suggests smth they have a brief understanding of what they are talking about unlike let's say a AVG 48 or 50%er (obviously that's not every 50%er etc some know more some less but imo a 60% with high avg tier knows things better than a 50%er with similar avg tier )

I know there is plenty dumb and toxic players even in top Clans but to get into those they somewhat have to play good therefore have some kind of knowledge
I've had plenty discussions on here about tanks like Yoh where avg people said yoh is avg while it's overperforming in a lot of aspects
Or the other people saying 252u is broken because it's upper plate is stronk ignoring the bad gun, huge lfp it's cupolas
That's why I'm always taking clan tags into account and then judge whether to take a statement like the smasher one above more or less serious

[quasi axle]

🥴

[burnt venture]

That moment when people in here have had such ridiculous and impossible and selfish balance adjustment advice that jokes don't even register anymore

And @leaden flare not really, people all have logical fallacies and some people are smarter than others. Good at the game does not equate to smart, there are tons of dumb / toxic / bad people in top clans.

[full token]

To me this channel is more of a place to discuss with others and convince them about your view, rather than hoping WG will read anything

[remote oriole]

How successful have you been with that goal?

[drowsy plaza]

Oh I would prefer WG didn’t read half the ideas posted here. We’d see a Smasher and Annihilator buff, or another IS-4 buff and another E5 nerf

[burnt venture]

We are already buffing the Shark so why not buff Smasher and Annihilator and give every tank special consumables, thx

[drowsy plaza]

@burnt venture I actually am worried that may be 8.6.

Tungsten shells, adrenaline and reactive armor for Leo1 👀

[mystic oak]

The rumors about obj 140 getting removed are true?

[quasi axle]

No

[upbeat sphinx]

What is the reason to buy a tier 7 premium or collector if it can face a smasher against? Put asap a preferential matchmaking for smashers too as well as Helsing or Dracula. Let them there be an equal number per team and banish double platoons of those tanks, only one per platoon

[vocal pier]

Wargaming, please we are not yet in Spring season. What is happening?

[drowsy plaza]

@upbeat sphinx while those tanks are a tad OP there are still some fantastic medium and light tanks in 7 for skilled players.

[upbeat sphinx]

only the type 62 can rival op Halloween tanks, the rest of the medium is straight up garbage or just mediocre

[distant river]

T71, T-34-1, Leo (iirc), panther and kunze are all competitive

[drowsy plaza]

T26E3 Eagle 7 says hi.

Honestly most of the tier 7 meds are good to great. The only one I think is hot garbage is the Y5 ELC bis. The Panther M10 could use a buff to the pen given the creep of heavy tank armor and the fact it lost Pref MM back when we lost +/-2.

I say that however as a player who doesn’t necessarily fear a Smasher or Annihilator if I am in a tier 6.

So YMMV

[winged barn]

Gotta love the prammo alpha on the y5 elc

[jade lotus]

buff tortoise plz

[fluid topaz]

Weak mindset is thinking that a Smasher is unkillable

@distant river
Gotta love that T71 validation 🥴 😍

[wicked quest]

Hafen and edelweiss to some extent granted their premiums too

[ancient crypt]

I was genuinely surprised and ecstatic when I realized I could reliably Pen most Heavies in Tier 7 and 8 in a Tier 7 Medium that has good Turret Armor.....it was sooo much fun in Madgames

[glad python]

My latest games STRONGLY suggest that RNG is stacked to give shi ttier players a chance; giving better players a handicap. Care to comment and open source how RNG is actually designed?

[uneven narwhal]

Can you give proof?
A few games is not enough for this claim

Yes I'm a part of WG

[glad python]

Who are you? Not engaging unless youre WG.

[amber field]

I can approve of this, he's from the Playerbase department, I'm his chair.

[dark storm]

Nobody ask+ Ratio+ who give a F bout mm +L + your white

[uneven narwhal]

You can't come into a discord server, make a wild claim, not give proof, and refuse to talk to anyone but WG lol
Should've created a ticket if you didn't want to interact with others

[glad python]

@uneven narwhal So the "balance discussion" forum is not for discussing balance? Im curious to know, is RNG and how it is designed and impact games open source to the community?

[uneven narwhal]

I've never looked into it and hence dont know about whether it is open source or not
As you said, the channel for discussion, hence I requested you to give some proof to support your claim

And may I know which RNG are you exactly talking about, damage rolls, aiming, crate, module damage..?

[dark storm]

Oh yea remove module dmg aiming and dmg roll no need to remove

[glad python]

Yeah....thanks for all the answers. I am wiser and had my suspicions confirmed. Thanks to @uneven narwhal and to @tame plume Closing my wallet for WG henceforth.

[tame plume]

🙏 wiser in the opposite direction

[uneven narwhal]

:blobpray:

[wicked quest]

“Why am I bad”

doesn’t elaborate
I’m better
not gonna dump my wallet though I am having considerable skill issue
leaves

[glad python]

I am looking to understand. I asked to understand RNG and have yet to accuse anyone of anything. This is the interesting part. Everyone attacks right away at the very hint of questioning WG. Isn't that interesting to you? I said "suggest". I did not claim this as fact. Yet, everyone shuts me down? That is more telling than anything else. And, noone has yet to direct me to any info regarding RNG.

[uneven narwhal]

You said and I quote "My latest games STRONGLY suggest that RNG is stacked to give ------ players a chance; giving better players a handicap. Care to comment and open source how RNG is actually designed?"

You have to have a driving force behind something to suggest it, you dont just wake up one day and go "oh I'll make a wild claim today coz why not"
Something happened, and you thought that RNG is rigged
Hence I asked for proof yet you still evade it

[tame plume]

because rng isnt something that can be tampered with easily, also WG has no incentive to "force bad rng" on anyone lol

[wicked quest]

Because RNG does not apply to match maker it applies solely to penetration and damage rolls that is literally all there is to it and such loss streaks and bad team spikes are common. And for the record we take every opportunity to satirize wargamings decisions

[glad python]

I dont have proof readily available. Simple as that. I have recent experience that AGAIN, suggests theres a balancing problem since I REGULARLY cannot pen the most basic shots.. I'd like to understand whether I am making this stuff up! All you are doing is berating and accusing. Can someone take the time instead to not teach me but to direct me to resources where I can learn more??? Alternatively, tell me what would constitute acceptable proof? @tame plume I beg to differ - if there is $$$ involved there is an incentive. Are you also affiliated with WG? Lastly, good for you @wicked quest @tame plume @uneven narwhal to get to answer in real-time. I have to wait 10 minutes to respond each time. And @young leaf pretty please with sugar on top dont assume things about people.... Cool @olive goblet that was my point. Good job saying what I said again.

[uneven narwhal]

Ah so you are talking without statistical proof
Enough to say you are getting selection bias, where you only notice the bad shots, the ones you missed, or those that didnt pen, but you dont notice ones that actually hit or penned a shot that you thought was impossible

Here is stuff if you want to learn

Aiming
In short, you will mostly have shells going to where you aim, but not always
The more you aim, the more chances you have of your shell going where you aim, ie. the center of the aiming circle
IIRC, it was told to me that it is calculated with the Gaussian curve, so is the damage

Damage
Damage dealt can be one of the values accommodated in the ±25% range of average damage of the tank
I believe even module damage has the ±25% RNG applied to it
It varies along it but you will get much more rolls nearing the alpha of the tank than at the extremes

Penetration
Nothing much here, your penetration will range from ±5% of the given values
Same as damage, it will always be near the given value, but will be in the above specified range

This goes to anyone reading this, If I'm wrong, please ping me with the correction and I'll be happy to correct :)

[tame plume]

since I REGULARLY cannot pen the most basic shots..
just aim for weakspots, its actually just your fault if you can't even hit and pen basic weakspots

I beg to differ - if there is $$$ involved there is an incentive. Are you also affiliated with WG?
Dont have to be affiliated with WG to know thats bs, you can't even buy anything to give you better RNG, thats not even a thing. You just keep making excuses over you being bad at the game

[elfin wing]

Btw even the "most basic shots" might have impossible to pen areas near, hence your shell might actually hit that area. You now we dont try to hit "boxes" Did you check the records via wotinspector or sth like that? Or do you just "think" that way? RNG in computers are not really "random" but they are not based on "amount you paid" as well. Otherwise i guess we should win more right after spending tons. "Experience" without serious investigation means nothing, i hope at some point in your life you need to write some thesis or article based on "experiences" like that. I would like to hear the response.

Just record some replays, use wotinspector and make a video about it.

[undone estuary]

Get good when?

[elfin wing]

Lol u do not even check my name before writing this. WELL DONE. I guess that is a PROOF that u do not really make statements based on REAL stuff.

[civic sand]

Bruh you are creating drama for no reason

[brittle reef]

Im more pro

[tame plume]

im done replying to such a stubborn person

[undone estuary]

Sorry I'm better then u but u blame rng instead of asking urself what u did wrong? And to realize u don't want to admit that u have skill issue since u said "I regularly cannot pen basic shots." Like what some of us have said, some weak spots have impossible to pen areas, so just admit u have skill issue, stfu and walk away. It's that easy.

[civic scaffold]

why is this so cringe to read 🤣

[uneven narwhal]

@young leaf As bad as his logic is, DMing people with that stuff is unacceptable

As for your proof @glad python , give me 10 minutes

[elfin wing]

Well, i didn't take anything personally but ok. :) But seriously, with some replays & investigation with wotinspector you might have a proof (or you might see what is the actual case). Have a good day!

[uneven narwhal]

1. If you cannot provide statistical proof, your statements are anything but correct
   They are simply wild accusations with no accuracy whatsoever

2. Here is my statistical proof below
   Its from WoT PC, but if you claim that WG rigs RNG in blitz, they will do so in PC as well because WoT PC is a money grabbing machine

3. Skill Issue

4. I'm paid by WG?
   The entirety of Asia server is paid by WG to keep it a secret. You a flat earther or someone who thinks the moon landings were faked or something?
   Because that's what it seems like when you are thinking that thousands of players can be expected to keep their mouth shut about this information or else what?
   They gonna send a hitsquad after me or something lol?

[twin egret]

🍿 never change WoTb, never change

[final pumice]

Lmao circus 🍿

[sharp saddle]

This screenshot and some other messages from Bruh_#0055 in this channel should probably be looked at by <@&481447501690568709>

[devout seal]

guys i have a question, if i but the 20k super conqueror version, can i buy the rex camo , like will it be available?

[uneven narwhal]

I'm the lead clown :D

[gleaming apex]

Bruh_#0055 was banned

[vivid torrent]

Some people really need to grow up, thanks for the tag @sharp saddle

[sharp saddle]

The Rex camo is available, you can buy it through the garage on the tanks camo selection page

[unique scaffold]

no it only need minor HE pen buff and that its

[uneven narwhal]

Jag does not need a buff

The Jag has alpha to compensate for it
1200 alpha damage while 152s have 960
I know it makes sense for a higher caliber to have higher damage and penetration but its probably not for balance reasons

[versed tide]

Jag is a bit team dependent but it doesn’t really need a buff, has 3k dpm, 800 alpha, great pen, good dispersion, bad accuracy on the move, slow, and some armor. Also the best hp of any TD

[drowsy plaza]

TBH most Jag players need a buff. The tank is absolutely fine.

[uneven narwhal]

The tank works wonders when you got that 800 alpha, a reliable gun that actually hits it's shots (lookin at you 183), 3,2 DPM with rammer, and good armor if you can angle it correctly

[sudden path]

Other tds need buffs over the jag

[leaden flare]

the TDs are the last tanks that need buffs atm
268 balanced and fine
e3 fine to a bit to mobile
e4 its okay
113 g ft fine too
183 is good too
4005 slaps different and is balanced
grille is fine even tho i want spall to be removed from all except 7 and 8
ho ri is the pen god and fine too
263 is okayish

so what kind of TDs need buffs ? at t10 obviously

idk what you mean my is 3d has 1802hp

<@&481447501690568709> down below
thx

[scenic void]

IS-3 Defender needs a HP buff. 1700 is too low even for a heavy.

Buff it at least to 1800 or something.

[leaden flare]

For the Yoh nerf id either want it to get less armor or less mobility
its way to mobile for the amount of armor it has
i mean i cant run away from it in a medium because its to quick and when hulldown its asically a shoot the hatches and hop you dont miss those tiny things or bounce them so its like a 30% chance to pen

[real bison]

nah nerf E3 cupola at least, personally I think it needs a cupola nerf or a gun nerf, and removal of its super consumables

you just hulldown and become near invincible

no joke when the Jpz and HoRi need CS prammo to pen a hulldown TD, you know something is wrong

You even need CS to reliably pen the E3 cupola on flat ground with both, and you can only do it in a small spot

@nimble zodiac a tank with its armour should either have a weakspot or not have a good gun to offset the armour, make people get closer to the action

I genuinely think it’s depressing that only TD’s actually stand a major chance at penning a hulldown E3, while it has a TD gun, with TD alpha, with TD pen, with TD prammo

mighta missed an or there, added

[nimble zodiac]

I'm fine with the super consumables being removed, but you want to nerf both the cupola and the gun?

I agree something should be nerfed along with the SC removal, but you used the word 'and' within a list, which implies that you want all three changes

👍

[drowsy plaza]

SC removal from the E3 would still leave it strong but not broken

[supple barn]

Tbf I was running jag without equipment it’s way better with

[stiff edge]

^ average jag player

[jagged crescent]

Explains the nickname

[rare sleet]

how bout badger. Badger performs pretty poorly even though not alot of people play it
when 268 v4 comes out badger will be completely obsolete definitely

[nimble zodiac]

Only E3 is the real threat to Badger's niche, 268 v4 won't have that niche

[rare sleet]

268 v4 will hunt down everyone's niche. Insane armor + speed

[drowsy plaza]

It’s not even in test yet. So talking about it’s stats is a little premature

[indigo knot]

TDs are overshadowed by HTs....HP difference is way to much....yes you can deal damage but winning games is other thing
Only TD currently able to go up against HTs is E3 rest can't think of any TDs where you are able to win games consistently
Jag, Badger severely lack HP, E4 is poor mans 60TP or even E100, 4005 and Grille due to the lack of armour sure you won't win much games as in other TDs, 268 is okish in meta but a thing of past nonetheless, 263 tbh is no good way to unreliable after the rebalancing, 113gft got a decent buff but still HP advantage is way too much for HTs, Foch 155 needs a buff, tbh looking at the current state I would be fine if 183 too got the buff
Main issue is HTs have way too many advantages in the meta not only TDs but meds have been affected too....WG won't nerf the HTs so only option left is to give universal buffs to both Meds and TDs

[indigo knot]

268 V4 will be threat to 263 or HoRi
Tho it still ain't in test and WG have done pretty good job with tier 10 collectors in general till now....
T22 was only OP back in the day since they didn't test it

[round sundial]

I don't think you want too many TDs in the game anyways.. Look at how most of them play, sit in a bush on spawn.. Not fun to play with or against, on maps like Dead Rail there is nothing you can really do then.

[upbeat sphinx]

su 130 pm after buff is broken as hell. It has a similar gun handling to chinese meds, crazy aim time, snapshots like hell

[indigo knot]

I would want a more balanced meta where all tank types are viable and dead rail is a map problem...that is other issue

[round sundial]

TDs are definitely stronger than medium tanks right now, so better start there than the camp machines (most of them are, anyways)

[twin egret]

So IS-5, obj, and IS-3 won't get ain time buff?

[elfin wing]

This is a 7v7 game, as long as both side have similar number of tank destroyers (or any "weak" tanks, btw i think they are still pretty strong) it shouldnt be a problem.

[devout seal]

What is new in the update?

[unique scaffold]

bruh the tank is great the HE doesnt make sense that the only thing
but you have the point

[uneven narwhal]

Not everything has to be good in a tank

[unique scaffold]

yeah i know that
im not begging wg to do anything about it the tank is very very fun, the HE is just weird...that it.

ok that all im going to say we should end this arguement

[drowsy plaza]

The HE on it has always been sub par for its caliber. But the HE still does a nice job.

[drowsy plaza]

TD’s only have so many spots on Dead Rail. Don’t expose to those positions early. You pretty much can guess 3-4 spots on either side they will be. Blind fire a few while hulldown and watch them panic.

[uneven narwhal]

Jag has 85mm HE pen which is enough
I dont think I want a tank with 100mm pen 1200 alpha damage and a gun that can actually hit its shots unlike the 183

[shrewd valley]

Where is Swedish VL ? :(

[unique scaffold]

🗿 fair point

[round sundial]

I understand how to counter them, but it is quite frustrating that the only play I can really employ is blindfire or gamble that he isn't in one of the 2 angles.

[unique scaffold]

Is it okay like this? @burnt kraken '

[burnt kraken]

@unique scaffold please say english

[dawn karma]

No need to worry people... Obj268ver4 will not replaced your Horichan and will never be....

[dark pike]

wg on its way to absolutely murder the obj 268 v4's stats like they did to many others before

[nimble zodiac]

The stats from blitzpost have been released for v4, and I ask, how can I trust that 690 AP alpha is met with just 800 HE alpha? 😂

[prisma jetty]

It is a horrid HE round, especially for a td with high alpha

[indigo knot]

V4 looks more of a turretless HT than a TD
Sub par penetration and dispersion values same as 183

[lone magnet]

how many T10 premium and collectables in total?

[nimble zodiac]

16, Including Concept 1B and Kampfpanzer 50t

[versed tide]

That’s pretty much what it is on pc. What confuses me though is v4 has lower than standard alpha on pc and it seems it will have above average

[quasi axle]

what confuses me is why ppl still think pc stats will be similar to blitz stats

[rare sleet]

ik they nerfed my poor t100lt top speed 72 to 68.
Its also physically impossible for t-100lt to weigh 17t with its armor, but nothing is realistic would be the argument

[versed tide]

Never said they will be :) @quasi axle

[unique scaffold]

3 players with under 900 matches in one match on T10...

[quasi axle]

Sure.

[outer glen]

Wg should buff caer and cent7 turret armor(both165mm now)like the cent1 turret armor(175mm)

[drowsy plaza]

No. Just hulldown and jockey.

But considering the T32 buff they probably will get that or more.

[terse tinsel]

well now it has dpm but still not enough speed, so 100 mm upper frontal hull plate would be nice so it may become better at hulldown and so it compensates for that 5 more km speed imo. i mean they did that to the t8 italian med at the cost of a tiny bit of traverse speed so why not

[distant river]

UFP buff to make it better at hulldown
That's not what hulldown means...

[terse tinsel]

peeking the turret only will only allow u to hit the enemy s turret alone.u have to peek the upperplate too to get shots on their upperhull from above. the cent cant play with 6-7 degrees like other hulldown russian meds cus the turret becomes really bad. u need maximum gun depression over the front to be able to bounce. therefore the upper plate armor is necessary cus its easily pennable even when ure using 10 degrees rn.

[quasi axle]

You have 10 degrees of gun depression iirc so no

[scarlet fjord]

bring back the old economy until you fix your problem WG
183 players get like -100k per game

[ocean plover]

The new credit system sucks. I'm barely profiting WITH PREMIUM TIME when I get dominant wins at Tier 7. I only just resumed playing the game after quitting for FOUR YEARS because of the Spare Parts fiasco, and this is just a kick in the teeth.

[rough bramble]

PLS PLS PLS i rather pay ammunition and repairs again but net some plus! whats the point of winning with tier 8 plus prem, 2000 dmg and earn barely 10.000? or winning with a ferdinand with 1300 dmg and earning 3000? is i didnt have a prem account i'd lose 1300 credits :/:/:/:/:/

[round sundial]

Yeah I imagined it would be this way. The credit earnings will probably be lower now.

[ancient crypt]

It also has 690 Alpha

[safe rapids]

WG: balanc

[dense yoke]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/503672016252043275/910646299248955462/unknown.png

[cursive schooner]

Well they massively nerfed the power to weight too iirc 48 down to 28ish

[cerulean nacelle]

@left grail when will the rest of the e100 line and is7 line be given pbr?

[versed tide]

Guys let's buff the concept 1b because it wasn't broken enough already !!!

[uneven narwhal]

So who thought it was a good idea to give 268v4 Sandbag and Reactive armor?

[stiff edge]

probably one of the dev's neighbour's cat

[uneven narwhal]

I don't doubt this will get nerfed with feedback from the testers but given WGs relationship with Super Cons, I think its safe to say they're balancing yet another tank around it

[leaden flare]

i already dont like what im seeing
testers abusing it while its broken like that just like with yoh or kran when eu testers spammed 400+ battles in those
there should be some kind of limit to what you are allowed to play in a testing tank imo

[uneven narwhal]

I would've been fine with testers playing as much as possible because more data = better balancing

but given WGs recent balance decisions, I believe they're just shooting darts at a board to decide

[novel totem]

this is like a vickers light POV of trying to pen T110E3

[leaden flare]

Well since the feedback isn't public we can't see what testers say
Would be interesting to see what the testers say even if it's anonymous

From what I've heard concept is getting a dpm buff which I can't understand at all

[remote oriole]

<@&481447501690568709> Phishing

[gleaming apex]

Haderax#2078 was banned

[stuck acorn]

i already played all tanks that got significant buffs in this update except chinese TD and Centurion 1 and my opinion on them is:

• vk 45, as espected was changed into another braindead heavy. Using it's armor requires ofc more skill than in Tiger 2, but still they killed it's unique playstyle instead of supporting it with for example gun handling/ dpm buff.

• KV-5, as also expected still is pile of garbage. Only thing that changed is that from now on people can aim on 1 huge coupola instead of having 3 to choose from. DPM buff was okay, but still thos tank won't fit it's role unless WG actually buff that 1 remaining huge thing at the top and leave the smaller one as a weakspot. They can undo the DPM buff in return, idc. It's a super heavy tank. It's not suposed to be buttered frontaly by everything without even much aiming.

• caernarvon, for me this tank got a correct buff. It was actually brang back to life without ruining other similar tanks. GJ to WG for that one.

• T32, do i really need to say anything about this one?

• AMX 50 100, there is nothing to talk about here. Wrong change on wrong tank. This tank was actually fine and last thing it needed was armor. It was more of a mobility nerf than armor buff. I hope WG will undo that.

• Pershing, This tank is fine for me from now on, but until now researching the top turret on this tank wasn't needed. But to actually get a dpm buff you need to research the best turret. Without it you will have same reload as before the update. So from now on you will also need some more free exp while grinding it. It's not a big problem tho.

• Tiger 2, it's still same braindead heavy as it was, from now on it's even more braindead tho. With this dpm and HP buff it can easly 1v1 most tanks at T8 with no problems. For me Vk 45 was a tank that should get this buff. Not tiger 2.

I can't write lonnger message, so i'll add up rest of the tanks later

[scarlet fjord]

great now i have to worry about a new tier 10 TD with broken stats on top of that ur economy is broken rn its practically unplayable your team cant be more perfect WG

[scarlet fjord]

btw Cent 1 buff was magnificent

[versed tide]

The worst thing from the update was the economy changes though

[dense yoke]

V4 got good armor, high alpha, but trash pen and worse dpm than the 268. It will probably be changed so yeah.

[obtuse sentinel]

I like how Wargaming is letting the powercreep from PC enter WoT Blitz. The Concept 1B, Obj 268 v 4 and the T-100 LT armor profile and stats is proof that Wargaming don't care anymore and are now finally admitting that they want to milk as much money from us while taking any semblance of fun out of this game

[real bison]

mind you all 3 are still being tested

concept looks to be the worst, hulldown meta is the worst

don’t want more hulldown meta tanks

like how on earth do people extract joy from slowly grinding other people down, while also getting slowly ground down yourself?

[drowsy plaza]

As opposed to HE splashing sidescrapers, or just deleting yolos?

[remote oriole]

Battles that are just complete yolos or lemmingtrains are actually fun. War of attrition is literally the worst thing possible

Also, HE splashing sidescrapers is a lot more effective than HE splashing hulldown tanks due to the nominal armour thickness

[wicked quest]

Not once have I ever had fun in a match where my team decides to lemming in the worse part of the map or does a lap around the map

[scarlet fjord]

WG i think you need to understand that being very strong and unique is way more important than being an op tech tree tank that will eventually get nerfed

[real bison]

This game was built to be played faster

Very rarely will I get games that are drawn out into the 5th minute

Either they’re absolute screamers, or the most boring grind fest ever, and most of the time they’re grindfests

The Obj V4 and Concept 1B are tanks that go completely against this theory, same goes for the Yoh and 60TP, and a small bit for the Kran

WG’s attempt to fix this on PC was the worst idea, they decided to just implement faster and better armoured tanks with higher damage guns, which made games longer

The best and simplest fix in my opinion is to PROPERLY balance these tanks, no more minuscule weakspots that only a Grille 15 with refined gun and reticle calibration can hit, we need actual weakspots that people can hit and pen

Certain tanks should have more weaknesses too, the VI Yoh can merely elevate its gun to hide its cupolas and the underside of the turret is thick, imo it shouldn’t be. (Yes ofc prammo exists, but it should be an obvious weakspot, but it isn’t)“Weakspots” shouldn’t need prammo to be penned either, it should need good aim

[remote oriole]

Then you either take the game too seriously or don‘t want to be creative about your approach to a battle. I prefer playing on the weaker side of the map because that allows me to break the meta and catch the enemy off guard, which almost always turns into more enjoyable battles

[wicked quest]

Just because I dislike lemmings doesn’t mean I take the game too seriously it’s especially infuriating if the team decides to go into town on middleburg which is hard to make work when majority of games turn into a loss in that side

[leaden flare]

there is no catching off guard on most maps
when you go middleburg city u just loose against people that arent mentally challenged
when u get the bad mines spawn there is no catching off guard u are going to get spotted before you can deal any significant amount of dmg
mayan ruins go heavy side and u will most probably loose because you dont have any cover but the enemy can go hulldown and if nobody peeks its going to be just horribly boring

most bad sides are bad bbecause you cant really do much thats the reason why they are bad
because in most cases there are just no alternate routes you can take thatll give you any kind of gameplay unless you play against stupid people

[remote oriole]

You guys are making it hard for me not to call „skill issue“

If you go to the standard positions on the ‚weaker‘ side you obviously won‘t catch anyone off-guard.

On Middleburg you don‘t even need alternative routes because you can just cap. If your team goes town on Middleburg and you don‘t immediately cap I would blame yourself for losing the game.

I don‘t even know what‘s supposed to be the ‚bad spawn‘ on Mines, and WG often stated that the map is not statistically imbalanced so your point is basically just feelings.

On Mayan ruins on the heavy side you can perfectly sidescrape, but usually that‘s not necessary because you will push around the far side anyways where you can find ample opportunity to go hulldown. The reasonability of going heavy side on Mayan ruins depends more on team composition and (the thus resulting positioning) than anything else.

You can‘t do much if you are stuck in the meta mindset. F you go into a game thinking that you‘ve lost then your team plays 6 vs 8

[jagged crescent]

I like tanks

[wicked quest]

Ahh yes skill issue for the guy who writes essays that’s a new one you know full well majority of teams will not think to cap at first and will do it too late mines is just highly dependent on your team and side scrape in meds or heavies? Because only some heavies are capable of doing it on the heavy side on Mayan if your doing it in a med your probably not supposed to be there but then again all I said was lemmings are unfun and infuriating so much for “I take this too seriously”

[remote oriole]

Yeah, that‘s why you have to cap. Also, I don’t see why you would stay in the centre of the Mayan Ruins heavy side with a medium to sidescrape but ok.

I concluded that you take the game too seriously because the only reason why rushing around a stupid place on the map is not fun is because you are either being overly serious or really badly want to win (also too serious). And it‘s not even like you can‘t combine the two things.

To be honest I find lemmingtrains refreshing as they force me to adapt and develop tactics on the fly instead of playing the same positions over and over again. If anything, lemmingtrains are a necessary variety.

Ironically, the better the enemy team, the better stupid lemmingtrain pushes work because all those people are so fixated on their damage and winning meta strategies that they are as predictable as an apple that falls from a tree.

Also, yes, me saying skill issue is actually a first. I think I used it well 😄

In case you wonder, the reason why I believe that skill issue actually fits is because I believe to see a lack of adaptability here, something I regard as an undervalued skill and because I believe many people don‘t actually regard it as a desirable skill and instead prefer to complain about teams and maps that don‘t follow the norm

[wicked quest]

Yeah nah this is why I don’t respect you never have I stated I lack adaptation I have said is the average blitz teams and players do not let weaker sides of the maps go well as for the maya that’s what you implied no duh you shouldn’t sit in the mid in a medium and isn’t that the same thing though quickly adapting and compensating to a lemming situation is taking it to a very serious manner and all my battles I’ve yet to see a train stomp through members of the higher known clans On NA I can adapt to these situations in every tank class excluding TDs as I like to play them to relax in trying to catch up with a train in the panzer e100 and 183 or position in the 4005 is difficult and forces you to take the game seriously. Having to be the one capping when you can defend in the out skirts or help a TD about to be attacked is also funny when your team mate could look after the cap or decides to take the long way to the bleeding side

[remote oriole]

So let me just quickly recap

You don‘t respect me - ok
You don‘t lack adaption - Wouldn‘t be the first time my first impression was wrong
Weaker sides are weaker - circular argument
I implied that you should sidescrape in a medium - No, I said you should adapt and that you can sidescrape well on the heavy side in mayan ruins. The rest is whatever you read between the lines
Adapting to a lemmingtrain is serious business - well, that‘s what the skill of adaption implies
You never witnessed a lemming train breaking through some of the best NA players‘ defence - be the change you want to see. I witnessed lemmingtrains that steamrolled excellent players more than once
You can‘t adapt in a TD - TDs are not that different from other tank classes
4005 is difficult - yes
You don‘t want to cap because others can do it - lol

Well, what can I say. The strongest point you made is (indirectly) showing the duality of my argumentation, on one hand I call you serious and on the other I say that you have a skill issue. While those things can theoretically be combined they are an unlikely combination, and to be honest it rather seems like you are the typical great player who doesn‘t want to deal with anormal player behaviour.

I don‘t consider people who can only work under a given set of conditions as great players. That‘s why I told you that you have a skill issue.

I find it remarkable that you are swift to reject that you cannot adapt while also saying that you find the situation that requires the most adapting infuriating. I don‘t find that particularly believable. Someone who isn‘t open to adaption cannot adapt well. Your further explanation of your lack of experience of successful lemming trains only reinforce my perspective that you are not particularly creative in these situations and just try to apply your standard strategies, no matter how well suited they are for the situation.

That being said, there a lot more to skill than just adaption

[jagged crescent]

Imagine arguing about hypotheticals

[leaden flare]

capping on middleburg works like what once in 5 times middleburg
you expect your team of random muppets to sit still and not get themselves farmed before getting steamrolled by people just rushing through mid for the easy decap ?

choosing a different approach on a map usually ends up in a loss because

1. there is a reason why its the unpopular choice -> less cover, bushes etc
2. youre more likely to loose because usually that side is chosen by less experienced or just straight up bad players
3. depending on the map u will get crossfired without beeing able to return fire
4. if in the case of a lemming rush the enemy already has the better positions then the loss is almost guaranteed
5. there isnt much point in switching up tactics on most maps because once spotted enemys can easily adapt and maps arent big enough to have a huge choice in where to go and to not get spotted on the way there

anyway this isnt balance related at all

vk 45.02a for once now seems to be decently strong
pershing is good now except for its, idk if its just me, "bad" gunhandling the gun seems very inaccurate and seems to have some pretty harsh dispersion on minor movements

[lyric urchin]

Bots are OP, they can target enemies when the aren't spoted

[remote oriole]

No they cannot. Enemy positions are not transmitted unless spotted, which is why we have a spotting delay

[wide shell]

new meta on mines. heavys ignore town meds sit by lightouse and dont move and your paper TD goes town alone.

[orchid grove]

Ignoring town is the smart play though?

[drowsy plaza]

Without 40%’ers there’d be no towns

[winged barn]

The town is good bait when the hill is a stalemate. If you are annoying enough you can get 5 tanks to yolo at you, giving your team a free hill

[drowsy plaza]

Agreed. I’d just never rush by it at the start.

[nimble zodiac]

1. Worst cropping/lack of cropping I've ever seen
2. This isn't relevant to the channel
3. Reinstall your game, especially if this was due to mods

[nimble zodiac]

There's no way this is a balance issue, more of a visual glitch, no? You can report bugs in #eu-server I assume

[scarlet fjord]

ah yes why not buff Tiger 2 ruin economy system and get progetto 46 AX etc all over the matchmaker
I'm really curious WG
are you bored with how much money you have and dont know what to do with it so you want to stop receiving income?

[gleaming apex]

hadi00997 [ADULT]#4850 has been warned.

[leaden flare]

Tiger 2 isn't even OP unless you're one of those anti prammo fetishists

As someone alread had shown tiger II Frontplatte Turns Grey when prammo is loaded

[drowsy plaza]

Flanking also exists…

[twin egret]

It turns blue for me

[safe rapids]

^^^ and even shooting down on it running Cali on something like an AMX or 53TP without prammo gets you through the upper plate.

[empty nexus]

My problem with the Tiger 2 is it’s Medium tank DPM. It’s absurd. Got nearly as much dpm as a Rev/CDC.

1.72 s aiming time(with equipment)and 0.344 dispersion ain’t even bad tho, still pretty accurate if you consider that the 50TP prototyp has 2s aiming and 0.344 Dispersion, and I’d consider it a Rather accurate heavy.

[drowsy plaza]

Speed and gun handling where nerfed though.

So it’s no longer running with meds and laser accurate

[safe rapids]

It didn’t use to lol, was JUST with this update. Imho they should have buffed the reload for the second 105 but instead, they actually nerfed the reload of that grinding gun. Like, wth WG? But overall I kinda get the buff, it’s to make it more like an E75 with high HP and worse speed, but still good gun stats.

[regal abyss]

Balance my spotting creds

[lament prism]

guys are they gonna buff the kv4,kv3 and kv1 they need to buff kv1 armor it doesnt perform as good as the t1 heavy ,bdr and churchill 1

[gritty hawk]

Can anyone make the multi turrets rotate and fire on a tank chassis rather than shooting it with a single gun eg Char B1 , Churchill , Chi-Ri and M3 Lee.

[jagged crescent]

no lol

[uneven narwhal]

Nope

[spice silo]

268.4 is untouchable with bat chat in lower plate with AP (240mm pen)
Wargaming it’s blitz not Pc,give it at least a lower plate that can be penned with AP or it’s gonna completely break the tier X

[brave crypt]

Sorry, if more money are available at higher tiers, won't we have more noobs going YOLO?

[spice silo]

What? We’re gonna have them either way,that’s not the point.
As for now this tank is going to be COMPLETELY broken unless they make some changes.
They should just give it less armored lower plate

[drowsy plaza]

It hasn’t even started live test yet.

Don’t start loosing your minds yet.

[remote oriole]

I lost my mind when they introduced the Annihilator as they seemingly didn‘t learn a thing from the Smasher or Helsing

[unique scaffold]

they did learn. That people will empty their pocket for a broken tank that's why they refuse to nerf them

[burnt venture]

I would hardly say 10 dollars was emptying your pocket lol. It was extremely cheap at first, but multiple reviews said the tank was balanced so people didn't realize until afterwards.

[drowsy plaza]

WG really doesn’t care about tier 7 balance and 8 a bit. 9 is only balanced due to seeing X… Generally WG is pretty good with X’s balance

[remote oriole]

I don‘t understand the reviewers either. Like seriously, they pulled the same thing with Helsing and just by looking at the stats you could easily see that the Annihilator was the reincarnation of hell

[winged barn]

Wait, who said the high dpm, massive alpha, gun depression, turret armored heavy would be balanced?

[versed tide]

Most people thought it would be good but not to the extent that it is

[winged barn]

._.
Are most people blind?

[quasi axle]

You're in the world of tanks blitz server, is that even a question

[stuck acorn]

well, they said in Q&A that they will do something about low tiers, but nobody knows what will it be. I hope for a new rebalance, because for now there is no point to look there

Even if i consider spamming low tiers as bad, still low tiers we like it or not are half of this game, and for now this half of this game is unplayable. It's extreamely stale and boring + playing even a single battle there requires few minutes of waiting in queue

beefore 5.5 low tiers were quite nice popular and fun part of the game. Even if there were many balance issues there and rebalance was obviously needed i think WG gone wayyy to far

[fluid topaz]

My theory is that they buffed the Tiger 1 and 2 to make the people who played for history and got crushed feel better

[scenic stone]

Oh yes, of course, prammo.
Because having only 200 DPM less than Tiger 2 isn't enough, better load that gold and have 500 DPM less for a guaranteed loss. 🤦‍♂️

[mental pasture]

DPM is useless as soon as you learn the word "Cover"

Having higher DPM is good, but worthless in the "trench warfare" that a city becomes at higher tiers

[scenic stone]

Lmao, "cover", you do realize that he can also use cover.
And when you peek you're getting shot anyway because he loaded his gun faster while still having the average T8 alpha so you can't even really out trade him.

[mental pasture]

That's the trench warfare of tier 10 for you.
Faster reloads are nothing if your enemy can shot you once each time you reload. Considering a Maus vs chieftain situation, it's 310 vs 640 every 15 seconds.

Getting shot once in a trade is only a small disvantage if you're a heavy calliber with good HP pool

Btw, feel free to ping me.

Unless your enemy a Yoh, IS-3D or a derp, there's no risk for something with a decent alpha engage a trench warfare

[winged barn]

The gun with the faster reload can preaim and smack the gun with the longer reload as it is in the process of peeking. By the time the tank with the longer reload can shoot back, the faster reloading one can be in cover.
This requires out skilling your opponents though.
It's also what makes me love the is3d gun

[scarlet fjord]

the problem is you dont need gold for most heavies to pen the lower plate you need gold for tiger 2 which is a heavy that already is getting more DPM and pen and hit points than meds and many tanks cant pen u frontally even with gold maybe some light tanks with calibrated can shoot your turret weak spots or smt if you manage to surprise them and push on them smt like that
and its DPM buff really is huge because the 400 alpha heavies like Celestials in the past could harass you harder like shoot you for 400 or even less with gold its still more than your shell and since it has insane armor it can potentially bounce and reverse at 20km/h until you catch up with it he is reloaded again now with the extra DPM u can arguably just push him and get in a DPM brawl granted thats not very smart but if u have the opportunity its a big bonus even if u get 2 shells in u will out trade him with gold as he is prolly running calibrated

[drowsy plaza]

Yup totally OP 🤣

Oh wait a tier 5 can pen it if it aims.

[prisma jetty]

Yoooo Tiger 2 balanced

[nimble zodiac]

Annihilator must be balanced

[mental pasture]

I noticed what Crusader pointed. It doesn't mean that Tiger 2 armor is weak, it means that the tank have a weakspot that can be abused. If even a tier 5 can penetrate it in a relatively good weakspot, you also can do it in your high pen heavy

[rare sleet]

Lmao Annihilator weak pls buff

[foggy root]

can the pershing have a armour buf

[frail silo]

good luck hitting that weakspot
as if the tiger would just stand still and beg you to shoot its cupola.

[latent snow]

can some one tell me why the hull of the t57 is so stupidly well armored?

[nimble zodiac]

Because it’s an AMX 50 B now
Shoot the turret.

[unique scaffold]

Any Devs Around?

Give the E-75 TS an Armor Buff, and A Speed Buff.

[silent spire]

Hello is there any devs online?

[uneven narwhal]

even if they are they tend to not respond

[unique scaffold]

@silent spire read the name of the channel before posting. Thanks.

That actually goes for a bunch of you.

[silent spire]

Oh im really sorry
Im new in discord

[unique scaffold]

It’s cool.

[mental pasture]

Well, the stock turret makes Tiger 2 look like an AMX 50b, even in top turret there's a square around the mantlet which is fairly easy to aim

[uneven narwhal]

I wish the hull of the T57 was nerfed and the turret was made troll again
Its literally a worse 50B in every aspect but intraclip and side armor now, earlier it had the better turret of the two

[real bison]

uh no

is someone mad their Black Friday purchase wasn’t exactly what they wanted?

this is why you watch tank reviews to try and figure out if the tank is for you, rather than going in blind

[warped surge]

Credit is always minus in Tier 10 even with premium

[dusky anchor]

60tp needs a big buff, e100 is better in every single category

[uneven narwhal]

Ah a bit late but there's your daily dose of #tank-balance-discussion

[leaden flare]

either youre trolling or youre one of the reasons why WG shouldnt read this channel

60tp is used in comp which means its better than any of its counterparts

[dusky anchor]

did you see the dpm of this thing, people only play it because of its low profile and the tungsten shell perk which is a joke, its also slower and reloads longer, having less average dmg then e100

[burnt venture]

Players in this game can make the Tiger II in its current iteration look weak. So instead of crying about buffing already strong tanks, maybe please shut up, use your brain a little, and advocate for the buffs of many completely weak and powercrept tanks in this game and the nerfs of the super stupid strong tanks.

So extremely tired of WG making completely trash and crap balancing decisions due to the mediocre players that whine because their tank doesn't completely overpower everyone else. I hope you enjoy the well-balanced 268v4 next patch and the Concept 1B buffs for Christmas, or another line of japanese hulldown heavy tanks because that is so original and unlike what we had before (Kran, YOH, 60TP). With the balancing path we are on, BRAINDEAD seems to be the new goal for heavy tanks, which will have massive repercussions later on with powercreep.

But sure, cry about your 60TPs, your IS-4s, your E-75TSs, your T57s. Keep complaining until WG makes the heavy tank of YOUR choice impenetrable to standard ammunition. That's so healthy for the game.

[dusky anchor]

god did not expect a toxic reply, its a just a god damn discussion but yeah 60tp is underpowered, you cant change my opinion, i am not a 60wr crackhead but above average and i know what I am talking about. I also dont understand why you are bringing in other tanks into this. wg should not make any changes to prems as people pay for then and that seems fair but this is a techtree tank and is just lacking power, thats all. if e100 performs better than this then its definitely not worth playing it EDIT: that is a pro tourney with 70wr players who have everytank and have communication, dont compare pro league to random battles ok, are people this dumb

[quasi axle]

60tp underpowered bruh
There's a reason why half of the blitz cup games were like 5 60tps

[gleaming apex]

Shortstop86#6965 has been warned.

[real bison]

60TP: is in almost every blitz cup game

this guy: “ohmahgerd 60TP underpowered”

yes ignore the fact that it’s a hulldown heavy, with a strong hull, and the smallest weak spot ever

yes totally underpowered

edit: @dusky anchor then why did every team before the tier X HT nerfs spam Yoh and E5

any average joe can get good games if they know even the basics

[burnt venture]

even in randoms the 60TP is doing a LOT more damage per game than the E-100. Actually delusional. And pro league is THE comparison to randoms: it shows WG which tanks are the absolute strongest in the game. There's no point using a weak tank in professional tournaments.

My reply was "toxic" because players with delusional, stupid theories like this who obviously have zero idea how to evaluate the strength of a tank are, frankly, guiding this game backwards. You want to make heavy tanks like planet of the apes, go for it my man. Keep the circus goin.

The fact that WG are slowly listening to players like this makes me sick.

[leaden flare]

that tank goes like 40 (obviously thats over the top but its basically 30kph on avg) on avg with the right consumables ? its insanely fast for its armor
it has nothing but a small cupola to shoot at when hulldown
its frontplate is very good with just those two small parts at the side and a very small lfp aswell

its only weakness is its ammorack thats it
gun has enough pen for every tank in the game
accuracy is fine
600 alpha is good enough + highrollperk to trade even with 640 alpha guns
what else can you want if youre to incompetent to play hulldown in a tank that saves you fro almost everything than youre not above avg

[uneven narwhal]

"I can't work well with the 60TP hence it must be underpowered"

[winged barn]

I'm still waiting for the t32 dpm buff
I get torn apart when an AX yolos me

[dusky anchor]

i can, i perform well in it but comparing both e100 and 60tp i just think its better

[unique scaffold]

All involved parties need to chill immediately. Make your points without insults (if it’s a good point it should be easy to do).

[safe rapids]

no, it's already got armor and pen. no need to buff it even further.

[real bison]

this stupid hulldown heavy meta will slowly kill the game and everything it stood for, and people want heavies buffed?

heavies are extremely dominant, and probably will stay dominant for the time coming, why buff them?

WoTB has really changed over those 7 years

back when everything was balanced, 140 was on top, you could play off-meta tanks and still have a fun time

Nowadays it’s just been reduced to hulldown grind fests, slow, boring games, any off-meta tank becomes harder and harder to have fun in (sometimes you can still have fun), but it’s moved so far from that

I just hope that any new players will be given the materials to grow, not be grounded, but they should grow at a steady pace, not be rushed

@unique scaffold I’d rather tanks get actual weakspots rather than ATGMS

[unique scaffold]

Well if all the heavies are going to be hull down… it would be the perfect time to bring missiles back.

[uneven narwhal]

Try reverse sidescraping on a ridgeline with the T32
AX will be stunned at this gameplay and wont shoot

[full token]

It doesn’t have great gun handling

[split birch]

Please take a look at conqueror (tier IX British tech tree) I think it's gun damage is too low between its tier and even some lower tier tanks

[remote oriole]

Is this a joke or serious?

[uneven narwhal]

Must be using the stock gun

[safe rapids]

So? It can't be good at everything.

[winged barn]

or can it

[full token]

Dpm and gun handling aren’t very good. Need to buff those next

[split birch]

No it's top module gun but it's damage is only 400 and reload time is about 10 sec

[frail silo]

they are being sarcastic

[full token]

Considering they buffed the pen I probably shouldn’t be sarcastic here or they’ll take it serious and do it without thinking about it

[safe rapids]

yeah lol

[winged barn]

Buffs the t32 definitely needed
Penetration
Superconsumables
Hp pool
Hull armor

There are only so many things you can still buff on it before it becomes a tier 9

[drowsy plaza]

Clearly needs more speed and DPM 🤪

[twin egret]

Buff FV215b

[split birch]

Also it NEEDS SPEED

[distant river]

T32 with 400 alpha when?

8.6 will be the best update WG ever did then :D

[drowsy plaza]

8.6?

[worldly cobalt]

Do you think that Grille 15 and FV183 needs a mobility buff?

[mental haven]

Grille 15 :D?

[lunar sail]

T32 needs this gun... not a pen buff

Lmao no @nimble zodiac , at least 390 alpha or 350 with m103 stock 120mm pen

T32 current gun is so badd

[nimble zodiac]

Give it that gun, but then keep the alpha at 310

@quasi axle no wait, know how SU-101 got nerfed over and over for no good reason? I think it was the 340 HEAT gun that got it nerfed so badly. Let T32 fall down that hole

[quasi axle]

yes lets give an already good t8 ht 340 heat! what could possibly go wrong.

[nimble zodiac]

The gun is not that bad now you know

[lunar sail]

I was talking about before the buff

But still i would like that WG adds that 120mm gun to t32

[dense oyster]

and while we are on the thread of gigantic buffs to make a tank OP 🤣
I want a 120mm on my T26E4 too! and give it 50mm more armour everywhere! ⚖️

[unique scaffold]

Buff maus

[winged barn]

so... completely outclass the t34 in every possible way
significantly better armor
thicc hp pool
zoom consumables

[lunar sail]

t34 with better armor :p

[quasi axle]

This person is clearly an expert at balancing tanks.

[versed tide]

maus was the top preforming tank before it was nerfed. I think the dispersion nerf was a bit harsh but it is fine as is

[unique scaffold]

I just want it to have 3000 hp by default

[nimble zodiac]

The only problem it had before the nerf was the HP, homie

The dispersion nerf was WG’s role-giving idea, trying to make Maus a complete frontline tank

[dense oyster]

give it reactive armour next! 👀 🤣

[silent spire]

Chi nu kai is very broken on 8.5 i got 100k on a very good game

[dense oyster]

nice! 💰

[versed tide]

well i mean it has like the highest credit coefficient in the game. @silent spire they only slightly touched premiums, tech trees were affected the most.

[silent spire]

But even from the update where credit is dog dung they still made it best

[ember thunder]

bring back old missile mechanics for sheridan missile???

[slow lodge]

n o
pls don't

[unique scaffold]

@dense oyster okay but hear me out
The maus itself isn't a good tank,what I mean by that is without teammates you're practically sold, how it is supposed to be played is to tank as many shots while dealing a decent amount of damage til the meds start pushing, so you can push with them
With that buff that gives you 130 hp instead of 4% more armor it already gets 3000 and something hp, so if you gave it such amount by default you could get the 4% buff instead of more hp, filling the maus role of,well, a super heavy tank, not designed to get frags but rather support the team receiving the most amount of damage and bounce the most shots it's able to
You see the new polish tank? The Lewandowski tp60? That thing has an insane amount of frontal armor making it impossible to pen behind cover not to mention it's gun deals 600 damage or so,making the maus practically useless when it comes to Frontline battles, the periferals of the turret can be pen by apcr even when you're facing the target
All I mean with this is: if you give the maus more hp, it can keep up it's pace with other heavy tanks, frontal armor Is meh and even when you angle it you still get hit

[nimble zodiac]

You just used a reasons that could also justify buffing Maus's armor by 4% too, so people could use HP instead.

Either way, Maus is supposed to be bad by itself, it's a team playing tank. 60TP is OP, so you're justifying a Maus buff with an OP example, faulty.

A correctly angled Maus should be hard to penetrate by most guns

@versed tide Angry Connor has 4% more CC

[indigo ice]

I would like to see the Foch 155's stock gun to be 640 Alpha like before it got its autoloader/nerf. Allowing the player to have two different play styles without just having a worse 150mm with 80 less alpha.
I don't know why they reduced the Stock gun's alpha alongside its autoloader nerf - there was no reason to.

[mental pasture]

A good tank don't need to have everything good. It have a decent mobility, a trustworthy armor (mostly in turret), high gun depression in order to use your hull down abilities to the limit, you also have speed boosts, sand bags and reactive armor if you're caught off-guard. And by the way, the gun isn't that bad, it have a good DPM for a heavy and it's kinda precise.

So, even tho you have veteran role...
Git gud and stop asking to buff balanced tanks.

Perhaps we can buff everything and nerf M103 harshly, so M103 and T32 can switch places

Wait, what? @uneven narwhal

[uneven narwhal]

I assume he's being sarcastic

[foggy root]

M26 pershing armour buff

[true delta]

yo wg will you ever buff underpreforming tanks that were nerfed in 8.2 i mean on e5 and fv215b

[silver urchin]

Should the kpfpz 70 have the alternative gun? A 120 cannon? Would be a nice idea a cannon with 10mm more of pen and more accuracy

[fast jay]

i think they should look on the tier x heavy FV215b... its much worse on its tier trust me

[full token]

The 183 isn’t good but that’s due to the alpha damage. the conqueror doesn’t have the same issue where it has very high alpha that can overpunish mistakes. The 183 is kept bad as a consequence for having the ability to wipe out half the hp of a tank in a shot

[fast jay]

yes but against every single tier X heavy tank (yes there are some exception, but for example T95e6 is pretty rare) you have very small chance, and even if you are expierenced player, its hard to play with it

mistakes may have been made 😄 sorry im a little bit of a dumbass 😄

[full token]

Yet you have the ability to wipe out half the hp of heavies, or most hp from a medium. Sure it sucks after it fires but that’s the punishment for what it can do to other tanks. WG have already said they don’t want to buff like this. It’s already toxic for battles, and buffing it makes that worse

@fallow eagle he said fv183 though?

[fallow eagle]

I think he's talking about fv215b the heavy tank
I mean he said tier x heavy fv183b so he might have mixed it up

[fast jay]

Yes, im sorry 😄

So as I was saying i think FV215b should be buffed 😄 mainly the armour (+20-50mm front and side armour, and about +30 mm gold ammo pen)

[uneven narwhal]

Only way to fix 215b is removing super consumables and buffing it's DPM back to normal and a bit more side armor

But knowing WGs relationship with super consumables.......

[leaden flare]

I bet russian server likes them and all servers combined feedback is too low to reach russian feedback lvls

[drowsy plaza]

It really doesn’t need side armor buffs.

[drowsy plaza]

Nope

[fallow eagle]

It does need a dpm and hp buff tho

[fast jay]

totally agree and a gold pen buff

[leaden flare]

Are all of you that terrible at aiming that you need to lol pen everything ?
As long as it can easily frontally pen Maus and e100 turret with a slight angle all is perfectly fine Armor doesn't get much thicker with a really good angle or some hulldown god of a tank

[next quail]

Give the grille 15 a camo buff, it deserves it, the fv 4k5 has better camo but its literally bigger

[fast jay]

make sense to me, btw nice nick 🙂

[dense oyster]

@uneven narwhal So True, WG need to remove super consumables and provisions and let the tanks shine without them! then the t110E5 and Fv215b would be back at their old DPM level, these super sonsumables are getting ridicuous, i think i saw a 60tp the other day with 2900 HP, compared to my Maus's 2850hp....
everyone Read what i've tagged, ⬆️ ⬆️ ⬆️ ⬆️ ⬆️ ⬆️ ⬆️

[fast jay]

I think for example grille 15 and FV 4005 should keep them... otherwise they are not very good tanks.... but mostly a agree with you... super consumables are big mistake from WG

[safe rapids]

60TP can only get to 2756 fully kitted out. You probably saw an E100.

[twin egret]

A long time ago WG planned to buff the UFP to be 300mm thick, but that never happened

[twin egret]

I would argue that removing all of its super consumables, and giving it just calibrated reticle could fix things. To fe fair, if each nation just got one, just one, super consumable, it could be better, rather than likr a tank being able to equip 2 different super consumables

[twilit crystal]

grille doesnt need the HE stuff, the 4005 does though, honestly I dont mind the accuracy consumable @drowsy plaza

[drowsy plaza]

They could give it more HP and/or a tad more armor, or better camo or…. All the stupid consumables could be accounted for and removed with actual tank balancing.

[unique scaffold]

Why World of tank blitz keep crashing everytime i Click Battle. and it says graphics are too high even though i put all my settings to low.? any help

[thick rover]

plz buff 263 gun handling

[twin egret]

Idk reinstall game, or get a better service

[upbeat sphinx]

the 263 should be a frontline td especially now with buffed armour, go bully meds and look them bounce you everywhere.

[twin egret]

I find it's accuracy stats to be fabricated, with the actual statistics of the gun hidden away

[fallow eagle]

Aim time should be buffed on 263
Everything else is balanced
(Apart from dpm obviously lol)

[leaden flare]

Yeah have fun trying to peek meds that on AVG have like 7 or 8 degrees of gd in your 263 and usually run around in hilly terrain

You all want 263s to yolo stupidly onto other people but that's not how good people play that might give you a horrible 2k avg but that's it
The gun was all the tank was about and it's armor still isn't great

[elfin wing]

Well, i guess that aim time balances the tanks dpm a little bit.

[patent vapor]

"Balance discussion"
I mean I know it's in testing but cmon WG even for a tank being tested it doesn't take a genius to figure out what's wrong. And yes ik it has horrible gun stats but that doesnt make up the fact it's literally invincible to 95% of the tanks it'll come up against head on.

[uneven narwhal]

Give it angry connor engine

[leaden flare]

Don't give it an engine, problem solved

[kind rivet]

devs give obj140 buff pls

[uneven narwhal]

140 is fine as it is

[sleek grove]

@patent vapor I bet wg was like, yeah let's give it maus camouflage values and call it balance, smh the fact that it has to frontline due to its "amazing" camo makes it even more scary

[fallow eagle]

Not to forget currently has the highest alpha for a 152 mm gun
As well as sandbag armor

[uneven narwhal]

Impenetrable armor for the most part
Sandbag
Reactive
1950 Base HP
690 alpha
45km/h top speed
Penetration of a T10 HT

👏 👏

[silk hamlet]

id say give it 10° of gun dep like irl, maybe 8°

[silver urchin]

This is a real cool idea, i feel that the pz70 is so weak in hulldown to a hulldown tank

[teal raptor]

Kv5 actually decent playable tank following the update.

[upbeat sphinx]

remove the t 28
let be the t 28 prototype the only american td at tier 8

[sleek grove]

Just get gud lol

[frail silo]

The tank is trash

[sleek grove]

the whole line is trash but once u started grinding that its your problem, hence the git gud cause thats the only part that will motivate you to grind your way to t10 ,play it for 3 battles then leaving it there

[frail silo]

understandable, have a good day.

[fast jay]

holy moly, that is another totaly balanced tank incoming...

[storm salmon]

No, that's a FOCH or something close to it. If you shoot the cupola, it goes right through.

I hope they "Fix" the Concept 1B or say bubye to Tier 10 balancing.

Frankly, it should have been the KPZ 50T as the Holiday tank, not the Concept 1B

[main tulip]

Buff the 5A, it has almost nothing on the IS-7

[frail silo]

because it is not supposed to be like an IS-7

[leaden flare]

its supposed to be a heavyium but has nothing of a heavyium except for decent speed
not enough dpm to fight meds
not enough armor for heavys + somewhat meh prammo
gunhandling isnt nice either

im not a fan of buffing premiums or collector tanks tho id rather have the rest nerfed accordingly

[main tulip]

something is seriously wrong with it then if it's being outclassed by something that's supposed to fill a different role

[prisma jetty]

It’s out classes in that role. Play the 5A in its role, and it’ll work beautifully

[fallow eagle]

5a should have dpm buff
Currently the only playstyle for 5a is trade low alpha tanks and hull down which is7 does the same way but much more comfortably and easily
5a might have one more degree of gun depression but it doesn't give it a really big advantage over is7

[candid rose]

Guys: all tanks have 0 mm armor under the gun mantlet. And this makes it kinda crappy and so unrealistic. Its very anoying on the chimera because it has only 207 mm of gun mantlet armor and underneath that there is basicaly nothing. I think wg should either strenghten the chimera gun mantlet or actualy give some armor under the gun mantlet (for all tanks)

[upbeat sphinx]

I got recently the 5a, ithink it is more than decent but I am seriously worried that the concept 1b will destroy every hulldown collector/tank.
The 5a it is stil nice, if they would give a slighty dpm buff ( just like 100/200 dpm) then it would be nice as it needs cali for premium pen.

[prisma jetty]

Concept 1B is way too strong right now, it’s actually ridiculous

[fluid topaz]

does the mantlet already include the turret armor behind?

[main tulip]

someone explain to me why the 5A has 500 more DPM than the IS-7 in PC, but it's almost the same in blitz
and why it has 340 heat pen in PC but 303 in blitz

[candid rose]

No it dosent. If the sides of that small thing that hold the mantlet are like 180mm and the front is 0 mm. Btw that 0 mm is NOT spaced armor

[distant river]

The last thing the chimera needs is a buff

[candid rose]

Ok yes its kinda op. But would you realy like to be penned in your mantlet TWICE for 380 dmg? Because usualy mantlets are impenetrable huh. And the armor around the mantlet is already not so thick literarly its more than the mantlet istelf

[distant river]

"It's op, but wouldn't it be better to buff it instead of nerf an already troll turret?"

It's a medium not a heavy...

[candid rose]

Ok yes but its just my opinion. Still a great tank tho

[uneven narwhal]

Just because you got penned twice in the mantlet does not mean it needs a buff
It's like saying the Annihilator needs a buff because the SU-152 can pen it in the lower plate at a certain angle

One case does not make a tank good or bad, it's the overall performance

[remote oriole]

The turret being relatively easy to pen with a lot of pen is what balances the tank

[rare sleet]

Im pretty sure in real life the gun mantlet is the armor that protects the gun. As the gun cannot move if there was another layer of armor underneath. Whats the point of a mantlet if you could put armor underneath. Thats why mantlet-less tanks took time to develop and are rarely seen during the war.
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5792/23716162020_47e246074a_o.jpg Diagram

[remote oriole]

Mantletless guns have the armour in the block moving with the gun. The only difference is that the armour doesn't cover other parts of the turret armour

[candid rose]

Ok yes but it was just my opinion.

[wooden quest]

Your opinion states the 0 armor is unrealistic, which is in fact wrong. Added to that your opinion also wants a buff to a tank that needs no buff. Does your opinion of balance want to make a tank invulnerable? A very flawed opinion indeed.
Instead of thinking to yourself "right I need to change up my playstyle" You instead decided to complain that a blatantly overpowered medium needs a buff due to your inability to change your playstyle. If you have nothing else to say other than "Okay but its just my opinion" you may not need to respond further.

[dense oyster]

800mm of armour go brrr

[main tulip]

Buff 113 traverse speed

[vital basalt]

i dont think 3rd highest overall wr and highest tier 8 wr tank needs a buff

[rare sleet]

suprised dracula is still high up there

[nimble zodiac]

I think 50 more alpha for AP is not worth 160 less alpha for HE 😂

[dense oyster]

concept 1B is Stronk 💪

its on Dynasty pearl and my team went city and only him and the STB went park. 🤔
he was 2vs 7 whilst me and the rest flanked... 👀

[dense yoke]

Why did you hide all igns inclunding your ign but not the concept 1bs ign?

[candid rose]

https://tenor.com/view/parks-and-rec-ron-swanson-regret-sad-life-gif-7629174

[stuck acorn]

Nobody wants another braindead brawler that can be penned only by those 340 heats. I have an brilliant idea. Maybe instead of giving tank totally braindead armor but easly pennable with huge pen golds, give it some actuall weakspots that can be penned with AP, but maake rest of the tank overally stronger in return so it will actually require some skill to pen it and some skill to not get penned

For example give coupola a hitbox plus make this little lower plate pennable with standard but buff cheeks and big lower plate so it won't be automatically buttered when enemy uses gold

[real bison]

^^^^^

give tanks actual weakspots that are actually 9/10 hittable and pennable

LOOKING AT YOU, 60TP

[drowsy plaza]

The v4 isn’t in live testing yet. The Badger was hit by nerf bat so maybe relax and watch what happens during test.

Personally I think it’s 1 trick pony

60TP is one of the weakest heavies on the side.

It’s just a frontal menace

[dense oyster]

its a t110E5 with a big alpha gun,

[real bison]

any tank that gets to its side would be able to kill it, that goes for all tanks, in fact, you proved it with the screenshot of the 60TP

the fact that the front is almost impervious to all harm is wrong- you need to be a heavy, at least, with CS HEAT to even pen, while it still has a TD gun with TD pen

at least the 60TP has weakspots, which may I mention, one is very hard to hit reliably, the other can be hidden behind a ridge

If this tank’s armour gets nerfed while in development to a point where MT standard shells can pen the lower plate at the very least, then it would be fine, but, as it looks currently, it is not fine.

[drowsy plaza]

It has poor turretless TD DPM currently and mobility for traverse isn’t great. Plus it almost has negative camouflage, so I won’t freak out too much until it has been in test for a bit.

[orchid grove]

It’s 100% broken. It has even more armor than it does on PC; and the DPM isn’t even bad. It’s about on par with the E3; but it has 690 alpha. You don’t even need it to be in test to tell that it’s broken. A tank that literally cannot be penned in the front is not balanced. All he has to do is drive out; slam you for 690, and there’s nothing you can do about it. A very healthy 45km/h speed limit does not help matters

[silk hamlet]

^ you need 340 heat to pen it and even then its still tough to crack the things armor if it wiggles

[quasi axle]

woops guys 60tp isn't meta because it doesn't have side armor 😐

[dense oyster]

personally the armour profile for the 60TP is ok. ⚒️

IF if it didn't have any super consumables or provisions 👍

WG JUST TAKE AWAY SUPER CONSUMABLES AND PROVISIONS!!! 😡

[nimble zodiac]

100’d your own message? That hurts

Precisely, I like knowing who supports what statements

[quasi axle]

True

[dense oyster]

you bothered to see who 100%'ed my message?!!! lmao 🤣 💯 @nimble zodiac

[burnt venture]

nobody ever talks about this but the 20kph reverse speed means basically immune to circling, it backs up faster than you accelerate and can pin you against walls at will since it weighs so much. Can't wait to test this looool, looks like WG finally made a tank that was anti-tunneling. You tunnel this thing, you lose the game. It's actually better to take out it's support and flank it rather than brute force your way through the front

[stuck acorn]

i'll continue saying same thing. Just give it some weakspots that can be penned with AP and make everything else strong enough to bounce those 340 heats. Nobody wants a tank like it's in current state. It's completly immune to shells from low pen guns, but on the other hand it is buttered by all tanks with high pen. That's the least helthy armor profile for the entire game.

Ofc it also puts mediums and lights which are already in not the greatest state at obvious disadvantage

[dense oyster]

i love mine on pc, its and absolute brute.. on blitz it will be one too,

[orchid grove]

I mean, even if it didn’t have good reverse speed, the armor alone is enough to make it broken. It’s the equivalent of being a hulldown IS-7 everywhere you go

[safe rapids]

Yeah personally the turret already was super strong. Why they buffed it, I have no idea.

[dense oyster]

why nerf the su101? why buff the IS-7? i dont know. WG...

[rare sleet]

150s can shoot the engine deck and overmatch? roof also overmatch? only 45mm plate and maybe some high caliber guns can HE splash it cough 183 jgpze100 but the armor is pretty broken when facing it directly.

[uneven narwhal]

150s can overmatch every engine deck and roof with the exception of a few, also how many times are you going to find yourself shooting either of those parts?

[leaden flare]

Coorect me if I'm wrong but who asked😂
This isnt about MM but balance not your failure to adapt and overcome the monkeys you've been matched with😅
Lol pic spam gone

[real bison]

once again, I agree

Make the cupola like the current 268’s, and the lower plate should be pennable by medium AP at the very least, and it becomes slightly more balanced

[twin egret]

Badger? Nerfed? How badly 🤔

[nimble zodiac]

I see no Badger nerf 🤷‍♂️
Oh you mean a live testing nerf

[unique scaffold]

Tell them too Nerf the credits more god

[nimble zodiac]

Don't try to warp your message to be about 'tank balance' specifically

In this channel, we talk about the stats of tanks and what should be changed on them

If your post has ANYTHING to do with matchmaking and the skills of players you face in battle, don't post it

@sleek grove I think he's right too, but it still doesn't change the fact it doesn't belong here

[sleek grove]

@nimble zodiaci mean the guy above has a point, 3 t6 heavies vs 2 t5 heavies is unbalanced, and the fact wg will start to count med and lights as a single class is a sign those kind of unbalanced tanks matchups will be less and less often

[prisma jetty]

I see your point, but the problem is that this is not a discussion on mm, it’s a discussion on tank stats. Read pinned messages, it’s not that hard.

[gleaming apex]

petrolhead63#5765 was muted

[drowsy plaza]

@twin egret it was nerfed during live test.

[orchid grove]

In test, it had like a full extra round per minute, and more accuracy iirc, and then it got nerfed for release

[drowsy plaza]

And it had a tad bit more armor.

[boreal lava]

So where does MM get discussed if not in game balance?

[sudden path]

But... but...the upper casemate is pennable to heavy heat shells!
Jokes aside its basically and e3 that isnt slow and has more alpha for some reason
Just run cali and its pen issues go away
Who needs gun handling when you have so much armor you can frontline

[full token]

theres no dev channel for it, but you can speak in #general-blitz-discussion

[dull osprey]

nerf badger frontal armor?

[dull osprey]

<@&481447501690568709>

[bold dagger]

taken care of

[scarlet fjord]

the 183 is getting an armor profile buff what?

[outer glen]

💀 👍.

[frail silo]

bruh

[scarlet fjord]

omg broooo
Do you have any idea what I'm gonna do with this thing lol
where can i get stats or is this the only leaks

[exotic goblet]

oooh heeeeellllll nooooooo

[lime wagon]

???

[scarlet fjord]

????

[dense oyster]

hehe, on PC the tank is a beast because of the 300mm frontal turret armour.
but on Blitz this is going to be stronk now!

[leaden flare]

okay so WG actually went ahead and put 268 v4 into testing the way we saw it
great another broken op tank for the testers on EU to spam
now they can get millions of credits easily because testing tanks have low ace caps
great they really need to do smth about it i can already see people abuse it

[remote oriole]

WG at their best. Just doing some „experiments“

[stuck acorn]

Testing tanks shouldn't bring any credits or exp and their personal stats should be cleared after testing ends.
Change my mind

@dense yoke what do you mean? Earning horrendous amount of credits in unbalanced testing tanks with incredibly low ace caps has nothing to do with trolling

[dense yoke]

If you are testing a tank, are you immune from trolling?

[bold dagger]

absolutely not

[elfin wing]

To see the overall performance and profile of that tank people focus on those tanks as well. Yeah, maybe not everyone but as soon as its "power" seen/heard people start to kill them first... Aaaand that might be the reason of some unnecessary buffs, puff :/ (some internal screams here, with some bad words)

If those matches dont change anything, why would testers try those tanks that much? After a couple of matches, they might stop playing. Because u know, that will become just a waste of time.

You know, people get paid for testing games out there, right? Think it that way.

[remote oriole]

That would literally be combating bad data by making it worse

[elfin wing]

Well, to "check" the tank you should attack and try the capabilities of that tank. Think about the other scenario, when its power is heard/seen, to make WG nerf it, should we step back to let those tanks do better? In that case we need to sacrifice our career... Btw, not sure how many of us act accordingly, hence do we really change sth or not.

[remote oriole]

The best thing would be to treat the tanks normally, as this will give the least manipulated dataset. If the statisticians at WG are any good they know of the effects of live testing, and if the balancing department at WG is any good they know that their tank is „a bit op… or really op“, so they might actually by some numbers pushing magic glitter bomb whatever find values that actually make the tank comparable to performance stats of other tanks.

However.
Since we have the new balancing.
Performance stats don‘t matter anymore.

Yeah let‘s face it, the test tanks are just to pander to the opinion makers. The data you extract from them is practically useless and the opinions you get as feedback are extremely unrepresentative and biased because from a limited group of people. Just looking at them wouldn‘t be worth the energy your screen consumes, that‘s how void of use and content the live test results are

[fluid topaz]

Eassay Warrior indeed

[wooden mango]

The leopard 1 needs 380 alpha damage with the same damage per minute to be a decent tank

[cedar ivy]

????

[nimble zodiac]

1. Press 2
2. I don't know why you have yourself in that situation, a low pen medium engaging a heavily armored TD

@quasi axle he told me that the v4 was yoloing, died in 15 seconds

[quasi axle]

He's in that situation because the 268 is making an.. interesting poke

[rare sleet]

I'd be a annoying son of a gun and try to keep tracking the 268v4 so you can get around him

[uneven narwhal]

I know he should be using prammo here but I believe his point is that he can't pen the lower plate even when he's looking up at it

[versed tide]

track it and get around easy

[fluid topaz]

Is it really this easy to track someone for y'all to casually say it

/sadge

[uneven narwhal]

/s

[jagged crescent]

nah brah just aim at the weakspots 🤓

[ember thunder]

buff hp for frontline tds or tds with more than heavy armour 🙂

@rare sleet wat parallax said

[rare sleet]

That just sounds like you want to buff the 268 v4 HP because were just talking about the 268v4 lol

[uneven narwhal]

It's already going to have more than the Jag if they dont nerf it's HP lol

[fallow eagle]

Can mediums really pen hulldown 268v4 with premium ammo while using calibrated shells?

[outer glen]

If is7 prem shell with cali cant pen meds also will struggle to pen 💀

[nimble zodiac]

I mean they can pen it with standard

If he blocks it with terrain somehow, then oh well

[leaden flare]

that sounds like a dreamworld

• testers stopping to play a tank because of focus ?
  on EU we had people spam M4 54 when it was in testing for up to 700 games iirc and plenty of people went with 300 because it was op and gave easy avg and wr push same with yoh where people spammed 400+ games because it was this horrendously broken and the same will happen with 268 v4
• idk how they work at WG balancing department but a mentally sane person would see from a look at the armor layout and the stat sheet of that thing that its going to be broken
• testers, from what i know, have to write a review after testing the tank so if unnecessary buffs happen its either WG doing what they think is right or testers writing some weird reviews
• id love to make those reviews accessible for the public, obviously hiding names etc

[elfin wing]

It was an answer to the suggestion made by EpicDoge which is "testing tanks shouldnt bring any credits or ezp and their personal stats should be cleared after testing ends."

Please read a couple messages before reply to a message. Try to understand what the message owner try to say etc.

I didn't even have that sentence or sth like that. Thank for writing without reading, seriously. And thanks to that i need to read lots of bla bla. Perfect Day!

[leaden flare]

I've read what Dodge said and I agree with most of the things he said
And I also read what u said

• stats after testing should be removed from the ACC
• but I wouldn't remove credit earnings from them

Your suggestion to not shoot them would hurt everyone doing so, you said that yourself, and would make people spam the tank even more because now it's even easier to farm stats and wr

There is no need for tester to be treated as if they need some kind of reward for testing those tanks because there is plenty of people trying to get into the testing things but WG just refuses to let anyone except the established clans test and CCs

[elfin wing]

You can simply reply him to add your comments and said those stats and credits stuff.

Do you want to be a magazine reporter or what? I didnt SUGGEST to not shoot them. I was talking about both sides, thats all. I will continue to kill them fast especially if i know their clans.

Even your thought give testers sth (credits). But without it they can simply "try" those tanks for 5-10 matches then continue playing with their own tanks. Because, u know, it will become just a waste of time.

Please, just PLEASE read it more than once. Dont pick my words and create your own sentences and answer those.

[leaden flare]

Literally all I want to say is

• there should be a limit like 100-150 games that you're allowed to play the currently tested tank
• remove the stats from the ACC after the test is done
• the ace farming only turned into an issue after the economy changes despite that many tester don't need any credits because they have millions saved up
• making the reviews they write public but remove thier names

[main tulip]

nerf 268 v4 armor and dpm, buff mobility
the mobility appears heavily reduced from the PC version, which I don't like

@unique scaffold what's that supposed to mean

[uneven narwhal]

I would love for the reviews to be released as well, would show us if tester feedback is screwed up (most likely not) or WG is really balancing tanks by shooting darts at a board

[outer glen]

Perhaps

[final spruce]

Buff ISU-152 mobility for balance

[nimble zodiac]

“for balance” is an understood intention here, with reason of course. What’s your reason to buff it? It does its job sufficiently

[versed tide]

you do realize that was sarcasm

[fluid topaz]

I... sadly do now my eyes have been opened

[dense oyster]

People talking about the 268v4's armour but 183 is getting a big buff!

What about the 183?

Anyone think the 183 needed a buff? 🇦
Should NOT have a buff because its stronk 🇧
The buff is nice but doesn't affect the tank's meta-level🇨

React for the lolz

[lime torrent]

For the tier 7 match making balance stop selling some op tanks in crates or anything like that. smashers, annihilators, draculas ruining everything. Tier 7 mm is destroyed

[dense oyster]

balanced

the Obj.268 V4 has Reactive armour......... 😡
i hate super consumables 😡

oh, and it has sandbag provisions ⚖️

[dense oyster]

the one on the left is the pc with a 300mm ufp
and the one on the right is the blitz version with a 800mm ufp....

[burnt venture]

"Just flank it 4head"

[dense oyster]

32degrees of traverse speed with a pw/r ratio of 14 go brrr

[real bison]

not to mention it can click a button and lower the amount of damage it takes

again, if this thing gets nerfed, good

But, we must say it now, and if WG does actually look at this cesspool of a channel, they can see that the playerbase seems to have a more negative opinion of the tank as it currently is overall

[candid herald]

i mean Blitz has alot of strong and even OP tanks, but nothing i have ever seen in any game comes close to Smasher and annihilator, they are OP in a gamebreaking level, they can easily solo win a game, if you take two good anihi players in a toon you pretty much won 100% uneless the enemy does the same

[drowsy plaza]

Tier 7 balance has been a train wreck for ages. Doesn’t excuse it, but I’ve simply come to the acceptance point there.

[candid herald]

that is true but its also just another reason why they should finally do something about it, the tanks are so OP they should be either fun mode only or just removed from the entire game, they ruin every bit of fun or fair games you can have at Tier 7, and they are so overplayed by abusers too, every single T7 lobby you have one of them atleast

[nimble zodiac]

Let’s not…

[ancient crypt]

It would have similar Alpha Damage to the BDRG1B&Scavenger Shellthrower.
Perhaps a 7s or 8.5s Reload?
Maybe a little faster? I wouldn't know how to balance it

[twin egret]

It's false information, the TOG II indeed carries a 17-pdr, not a 28-pdr, as told by the museum that houses it itself

[ancient crypt]

Hmm

[leaden flare]

T7 has plenty of tanks that can rival the power of anni and smasher and can be used to counter them
T29 is basically as strong as anni if used right
BP is a decent choice
Tiger also is very strong
T25at has very good Armor
JPanther does a good job fighting them
They are good against them for 1 special reason they can get very good Armor of angled right and that's what both anni and smasher lack
Only difference is smasher can still he you for 300 or use it's very good heat but then again I can still bounce those too

They are still OP but WG said 1000 times they do not intend to nerf them

[candid herald]

so in your logic just because the T29 is also OP (not to mention that its only Op cause they buffed it for no reason) that means that the smasher and annihi aren't as super Op cause they are not alone?
also your list only mentions heavys, what about the countless USELESS T7 mediums that people have to suffer though, in most lines like russian and british the T7 medium is almost the exact same as the T6 medium, making them even more useless

remove the annihilator and smasher or atleast make them fun mode only and nerf T29 cause thats also op and you have a far better game

[leaden flare]

Maybe you should've read till the end 😉

Meds are on the weaker side yeah still not bad at all the
Russian T7 med is amazing
Chinese t34-1 is amazing too
Japanese Chi ri is hard to play but also enjoyable
German panther is also very good the T7 VK med is useless
American Med I haven't played
Swedish one I haven't played either but it's supposed to be good too
Italian was decent too

I conclude personally I haven't suffered playing them at all

[nimble zodiac]

Italian med in tier 7
Hol up 🧠🔥
Oh right, the more compact Leo

Still, Smasher and Annihilator were so OP the meta shifted

[upbeat sphinx]

The thing is that non premium tanks at tier 7 if they are not the op Halloween tanks are not worth it.
The only one I would recommend is the type 62. I would honestly boycott all the other ones like t 44 85, fv201, m6a1 , is 2.

[leaden flare]

You mean other premiums ?
Well kinda I also like using at15a for its insane dpm
Lupus also work somewhat good
There are some decent tanks if you know how to play them
I know that anni and smasher are over the top in terms of performance but there isn't much we can do ther than adapt to it

[patent shuttle]

bigger caliber gun use HE, or try to hit its sprocket/front wheel with AP and i heard HEAT is pretty good at tracking 🤡

[timber gust]

hi guys i think the 60tp line needs a nerf

[scarlet escarp]

I think Is3 really needs buff, it got powercrept super badly. buffing its accuracy, hull front buff, and buff + removing weakspot on sides might be enough. ;-;

[sudden path]

Didnt they remove the special mm for anni?
Thought I saw unequal numbers of annis on both teams

[frail silo]

you want to make the is3 op?

[drowsy plaza]

IS-3 is an amazing heavium.

[outer glen]

Hmm nah the 53tp have better mobilty

[candid rose]

Ok what i saw from the latest obj 268 v4 pics im scared. It has 800 fkin mm of ufp and has special consumables aswell as sandbag armor. I think wg should rethink some things before adding this op piece of metal in the game

[timber gust]

knowing wargaming, they would probably rethink it after releasing it and receiving obvious backlash

[dense oyster]

**that's the problem, 🧐 **

if the tank is balanced,** nobody** wants to buy it (M48 Raumpanzer/T27 STG etc) 😩

so to ensure players want to buy it WG ensures that the tank is Meta or OP. 😎

AND has a simple playstyle so that all the players who buy it can do well in it. (Chimera, T54E2 etc.) 🤓

The player base will only buy OP tanks, so WG will make OP tanks... 😳

it's the Playerbase's fault.... 🤷‍♂️

React 👀 if you agree with me
React 😎 if you dont

[prisma jetty]

The problem is that new tanks are way overpriced (Raum). I’d love to get my hands on the Raum… if it wasn’t 300 usd. People like interesting tanks, so tanks can be balanced if they have some sort of gimmick, like the dozer blade on the Raum. The problem is that the V4 doesn’t add anything to the game, so WG makes it overpowered so people will buy it

[remote oriole]

No, it‘s not. 😎

Players will even buy purely cosmetic items 💄

Many successful games are only based on cosmetic items 💰

Tanks can be attractive because of fun or unique playstyle or collector value 🤩

Making tanks op may bring more short term profit, but make the game worse over the long term 📉

A sustainable business model would be to offer a wide variety of cosmetic and fun products that don‘t translate into p2w 👩‍🏫

In the end, don‘t blame the players, blame the game 🧑‍⚖️

Players act according to predictable social and economic dynamics 📊

The game developers must take that into account to create a product that is sustainable and profitable 📈

Thank you for listening to my BalanceTalk ❤️

[nimble zodiac]

I hate this.

[gleaming apex]

Mr.Lam™#6573 was banned

[quasi axle]

Oh my god these emojis

[gleaming apex]

PG13#2279 has been warned.

[fluid topaz]

oh come on they can use emojis but I cant??🤡

😔 @prisma jetty

[prisma jetty]

You weren't adding anything to the conversation. Now I'd stop, before a mute comes your way ;)

[safe rapids]

^^^^ YES

[scarlet escarp]

no, I don't want to make is3 op. Is3 is pretty useless when 53tp exists, so yeah. It needs buff. If its op for you, then buffing its hull armor will be ok.

[versed tide]

imo just give it like 20mm (effective) more armor on the hull so it can more consistently deal with some of the standard rounds. Other wise I love the tank

[scarlet escarp]

people keep hitting these spots on is tanks(except IS6), this is a nightmare. is it ok when wg remove those?

[nimble zodiac]

I think they're fine, punishes overconfident players

[mental pasture]

Balanced and fair comment in #tank-balance-discussion. Pretty rare, insn't it?

[whole shadow]

Dont worry, just wait. When they add HD textures and PBR models onto this tank this weakspot will disappear, just like on PC and console

[raw geyser]

Nah it balances them out

Look at VK 90, no side weakspots, and its completely overpowered

[nimble zodiac]

It's great against single isolated targets, though if the enemy is foolish enough to engage on sidescraping, they deserve it. The gun is just over average for the Germans

[scarlet escarp]

i thought obj 704 is bad tank but i am very wrong.

[uneven narwhal]

Why is 50TP prototype still not touched it's so broken

• Hulldown Capabilities
• Armor where you have to spend time aiming if it wiggles
• God (not good, god) gun handling
• 440 alpha
• Literal RNG bias consumable
• Stupid amount of mobility for everything it has

It was already strong on release but did it really need the Gear Oil and Tungsten Shells?

[frail silo]

The hull is very weak
What are you talking about?
But yes the consumables made it busted

[real bison]

even without consumables it’s good

literally have a 2.6k average in it

It’s a mix between an IS-8 and ST-1, and it takes the best of both worlds

[nimble zodiac]

They slapped the Chimera's gun on it, then buffed it
They slapped IS-8's mobility on it, then traded with it
They slapped 50TP's turret on it, then buffed it
They slapped super consumables on it, then let it play

I rest my case.

[frail silo]

yeah i know, and?
without the consumables it was balanced albeit on the strong side.
the consumables busted the heck out of it, like they always do with any tank they are added on.

[scarlet escarp]

my wr drops from 58%, then 54%, to 48%. I see many players in battle use OP tanks like action x, t54e2, projetto, etc. Now I'm struggling to win.

[uneven narwhal]

You can get a fair amount of bounces on it due to the pike nose is shape with the projection in the middle

Agreed it's not reliable but it shouldn't even be troll

[real bison]

not sure if I’d consider action X or Prog 46 OP

just learn to adapt to the game situation?

[exotic goblet]

that is most likely because you got up tiers and not skilled enough for them yet

[frail silo]

I dunnae about bouncing with the hull on the 50tp prot.
It is paper, unless you are shooting at it with a low pen gun or something.

[distant river]

Tbh it's fairly 252-like in that the profile basically doesn't change no matter whether you are against a T8 med or ho ri cs prammo (heat does change this a fair amount though)

[golden turret]

And uncommon 😎👍

[prisma jetty]

Actually, it's incredibly common. And with a much higher wr than any other tier 9 heavy, there is no reason to leave it as is.

[stuck acorn]

daily reminder that 50TP is something that was aquired only by players with some experience. Even if there is bunch of bad players that got it, because they were carried by their toonmates or spamming like mad to get that, still players below 50% rarely have access to that tank. It's obvious it will have better overall stats

[elfin wing]

And actually we shouldnt compare wr with any any tech tree tanks directly, since at those we need to train out crew and research modules... I know it has higher stats than k91 and kpfpz70 as well, but for that case i agree with EpicDoge 👆 Average and below average players "can" get the tank only if they try so hard and spend so much time. But for the rest, (for my case k91 and kpfpz70) all you need is gold.

[drowsy plaza]

There are a bunch of 40%’ers on NA with the tank. They just spammed Annihilator toons to get it. That said it’s pretty balanced albeit to the strong side right now. It’s armor profile is fairly 1 dimensional and anyone in a tier 8 can reliably pen it from the sides.

[dusky anchor]

can wargaming just nerf the t92 and wt, just increase dispersion and increase the reload and take away its perks, a td with 3k dpm should not matchmake with t8. all i see is lobbys of people with 42-49 wr who just main these tanks having like 10k battles on then edit: t92 not 96

[remote oriole]

T96?

[unique scaffold]

That’s a very high average for a broken tank.

[drowsy plaza]

Waffle definitely needs a smack from the nerf bat. T92, meh, if anything it needs its side armor less trolly. Frustrating when a 155 or 152 hits the rolled edge of the hull and bounced when flat on to you.

[quasi axle]

Hi Ferocity!

[unique scaffold]

👋

[bronze osprey]

add Rinoceronte

[mental pasture]

I see the Waffle as balanced if it wasn't for the OP consumables. I never had problems with it, so what's the reason behind it's opness? I don't find the DPM to be a reason, as Tortoise, 122-54 and Jagdtiger are also tier 9

C'mon, it doesn't hurt to get another hull down tank for the 914th time in a row @remote oriole 🤡

[remote oriole]

I sincerely hope they don‘t. We don‘t need another hulldown tank in this game, and especially none with an autoreloader

[quasi axle]

Isn't rinoceronte pretty crappy

[sharp saddle]

Removing the special consumables would be a good step - shocker, not like that is the case for many tanks with such consumables lol. But will WG do that? We’ll have to see how long they are willing to let the waffle be as good as it is at its tier.

The thing about the Waffle is that it is very versatile.
Tanks like the Tortoise and Jagdtiger that you mentioned have nice DPM, but consider that they suffer from sluggish movement and no turret - meaning ample opportunity to avoid their gun, get around them etc.

Waffle has alpha, DPM, mobility, fully traversable turret, gun depression, camo, special consumables…
Its main hinderance is lack of armour, but thanks to spall liner, it is negated a bit.

It’d still be pretty good without special consumables, just not as dominant I’d say

[copper tartan]

buff conqueror plz that tank is useless no armor nothing

[nimble zodiac]

Blitz would change that, name a recently released tier 10 that wasn't cracked on release

Okay fair enough, though that was a medium without many benefits

[quasi axle]

does tvp count as recent?

[rare sleet]

I'll say blitz balancing has evolved to actual balance unlike wot pc

[fickle light]

WT nerf? yes. T92? need some debate

[empty nexus]

Spall liner needs to be removed man, it just removed the point of HE(exclude 152mm HE shells)

[upbeat sphinx]

The tortoise has arguably worst armour than a waffle, 122 is a mediocre tank at best. The waffle should at least have 100 hp less, as most of td have 1500 hp, meanwhile the waffle 1600

[silk hamlet]

122 is great wdym

[frail silo]

lol, the waffle doesn't have armor. what the heck are you trying to say?
the waffle is busted but let's not get crazy

[uneven narwhal]

<@&481447501690568709>

[upbeat sphinx]

The waffle has the mobility to retreat easily to cover, what do you do with a massive tank that has 20 km/h forward and 10 km/h backwards? And the tortoise from plates are are 220mm thick, so it means that all fully equipped tier 9 will pen it with standard shells. Tier 10 butters it, only tier 8 medium/ lights tank can still struggle to pen the front plate, but then you have the cupola which is giant and easy to hit even from range. The cupola even contains the loader so you can knock it out easily and reduce the DPM of the beast.
Meanwhile the waffle can just expose the gun mantlet while it snapshots the enemy and has a medium mobility to relocate if necessary.
Ever wonder while the waffle is the most played tier 9? While the tortoise apart for fun modes is almost absent?

[frail silo]

what? what you just stated just means the waffle is busted, which is what i said... lmao.
i was only commenting on your "waffle has better armor than tortoise" statement. which is hilarious.

[upbeat sphinx]

Situational armour, let's me rephrase it. The waffle by its nature it will be more difficult to hit during battle compared to a tortoise. The turtle has no real armour agianst same tier or up tiers, and just a little against tier 8.
This is also reflected in stats, as the waffle has 5% more survival rate than the tortoise, only second in class to the t95.

[frail silo]

the waffle doesn't get shot because it is not a frontline vehicle or an assault TD.
the tort is, and it needs its armor buffed to fulfill its role. but wargaming is gonna be wargaming so eh, can't really do anything about it.

[twin egret]

The Tortoise can get HESHed from the front by the Centurion 7/1, FV202 and FV215b (183) reliably, like come on Wargaming, buff the front 😂
Only FV4004 Conway and FV4101 Charioteer have it situational, whereas the Cupola is the only thing HESHable

[stuck acorn]

Just make toroise's coupola smaller and buff the whole front to the point where it can't be penned reliably with less than 340 of pen.

This might be much, but come on... let's face it. This is big chunky TD with flat armor going 20 kph. there is no point in buffing it's armor when most tanks still will butter it with gold. Neither there is point of buffing it's armor with keeping this huge coupola. Let's just make people actually aim to pen tanks like this

Coupola with size of T54E2's hatch should work

[tender finch]

They can just take PC tortoise
Need a bit aiming to pen it
But you can't just randomly spam shell to it's front

[ember thunder]

pbr model for is8 when i cant wait for armour change 💀

[full token]

Doesn’t need it

[minor minnow]

But the 183 did?

[full token]

no that doesnt need the buff either

[empty nexus]

Personally I just wanna see them Give the most popular T10 tanks PBR files, from most popular to least popular. Cant wait for the day all T10’s have PBR. The PBR on T1 is a waste. Why? Because you get past T1 so quickly 😂 They should do it for T3 or 4 tanks if they wanna Impress new players, but I’d rather they do 2 T10 PBR and 1 T8.

New players grind up lines so quickly there’s no point giving low Tier tanks PBR

[outer glen]

Just remove the spall liner from grille line

[rare sleet]

That was a meme tho

[prisma jetty]

You added nothing to the balance discussion and #blitz-memes exists, even if that type of meme has been seen hundreds of times

I don’t care what if you don’t care, you just seem to lack reading ability.

[rare sleet]

Balance discussions is for discussions not for random memes

[kindred merlin]

Calm down my guy
No needs to get yelly

[gleaming apex]

💎🕯 🏹 𝓥𝓪𝓷𝓗𝓮𝓵𝓼𝓲𝓷𝓰 💎🕯🏹#2588 was muted

[fallow eagle]

Fv215b needs it's previous dpm back and a side armor buff

[prisma jetty]

It needs to that and the super consumables removed

[gleaming apex]

DiscordRESTError [10013]: Unknown User

💎🕯 🏹 𝓥𝓪𝓷𝓗𝓮𝓵𝓼𝓲𝓷𝓰 💎🕯🏹#2588 was banned

[bronze osprey]

yes

[drowsy plaza]

It really doesn’t need a side armor buff. It’s still easy to stay over 60% in it. Sure it’s not nearly as competitive as it was - but it is a prime example of why super consumables are really bad for the game. It should just be reverted to the way it was before stupid consumables- same with E5. Super consumables IF WG wants to add them (which I think is terrible) shouldn’t be added blanket to tank lines - but logically added to individual tanks rather than making a dogs breakfast out of everything with them.

[twin egret]

I think it needs a spaced armor buff

[ruby merlin]

which is the better tier 8 tourney tank???....Tiger 2 or IS 5????

[remote oriole]

Both aren‘t tournament tanks but if I had to choose I‘d probably take the IS-5 just for alpha and turret armour

[ruby merlin]

what are better tier 8 tourney tanks?

[mental pasture]

Between those 2, I'd take Tiger 2 in any context. Casuals, comps, tourneys, etc

Tbh I don't know, I'd go for ISU-152 or something like Shark@ruby merlin

[remote oriole]

Obj. 252U, Emil I, T54E2.

For specialised roles:
Jg.Tig. 8.8, Chimera

Other possible picks:
53TP, Progetto 46, Action X

[prisma jetty]

T32 as well now, and Pershing for a dpm med role

[tender finch]

U would want fast and sneaky LT too in certain map
Fv, 1390, t54 Lt would be fine

[versed tide]

ru251 still has the best top speed and the best dpm of any t8 light (although fv301 and lekpz has more dpm with HE but fv301 can't use it)

[uneven narwhal]

Although 251 has the best top speed, it doesn't have the P/W to reach it effectively
You're better off with the leKpz

[versed tide]

lekpz has a worse p/w, i just run engine boost on my RU

[uneven narwhal]

oop no my bad forgot to include the word "effective"
Terrain resistance is a factor here, the lower it is, the better is the effective P/W as clearly seen here

Effective P/W = P/W divided by Terrain Resistance

[round sundial]

You sure about the Pershing? Sure it has better DPM than before, but wouldnt Progetto work better for a DPM med? Sure, the base dpm is worse, but effectively it should be better with the clip.

[twin egret]

And the progetto has 240 alpha instead of 225, something that is common with most 90mm/88mm guns

[tender finch]

Progetto is just outright better in most of situations

[twin egret]

720 clip potential, + 240 after the enemy retreats. Then it becomes a trading game where the progetto just wins overall

[versed tide]

Pershing has the highest dpm of any t8 med so it can be used in some situations better than a prog. Even with having a clip reloaded prog has less dpm than Pershing. @uneven narwhal yes it has higher p/w but really most of the time as a light your on soft/med terrain which is where the ru is better or the lekpz barely is able to be ahead. Combined with the fact ru has 400 more ap dpm than lekpz you can make it viable in more situations.

[remote oriole]

Soft terrain is literally water

[round sundial]

Well it may have more DPM, but how many situations do you get where raw DPM number is actually important? This is where the Progetto's clip will be much more useful. You will have, say, 10s to shoot the enemy, before they turn around, hide, or something. With Pershing, you can fire 2 shots, with Progetto, you can dump all 3. And I believe that even with empty clip, the Progetto doesn't have much lower DPM, isn't it like 2300 vs 2500?

E: @versed tide I just checked, Pershing with rammer has 2672 DPM, Progetto with empty clip has 2271 with calibrated shells. I still stand by my point that effectively, the DPM will be better for Progetto in 99% of the situations.

For example, if you have 30 seconds to shoot the enemy, Progetto can produce 1571 damage (actually 1440, because the last shot won't be reloaded yet), while Pershing can produce 1336 damage (Technically, with 30s limit it's be 1125 because you can't fire the last shot, so if you let that slide, you're at 1350 damage).

[versed tide]

Pershing has a max dpm of around 2800 and prog has 2k

[winged barn]

The persh is better for rushing, but the prog punishes small mistakes made by enemies harder

[prisma jetty]

The Pershing is just overall better, having more dpm, better armor, and it doesn't have that much less mobility

[leaden flare]

The highest Pershing can get is 2672 not 2,8k unless you count adrenalin which is situational

[nimble zodiac]

Low HP adrenaline rush perhaps

[versed tide]

which is why i said around, i dont remember what it had exactly, although adrenaline isn't available to prog as well so for 20 seconds you have a lot more dpm too

[drowsy plaza]

If they need to shoot Prammo the Pershing DPM is remarkably better. Which in tournaments spamming gold really becomes a thing

[safe rapids]

268mm of prammo on pershing go brrr

[gloomy mural]

6 vs 6

[drowsy plaza]

Well you both have 2 tier 9 and 4 tier 8 so it’s not ridiculous. Seems like a low server pop issue.

[stone drum]

Smasher nerf when?

[winter lion]

never

[scarlet escarp]

wait...What?? How a 50tp can one shot?

[prisma jetty]

My guess is 2 shots happened very, very close together, with the 50TP shooting HE almost instantly after another tank shot their own show

[granite light]

Lol thats nothing yesterday i got 3vs3 gravity force XDD

[quartz wasp]

found you lol, here i even make it extra special with freecam since you cant see my platmate in the zoom mode

[upbeat sphinx]

buff the gun handling of the t95, it is horrible. i need to stop for shooting while a 20 km/h, imho vehicle should be always aimed in

[remote oriole]

No

[pseudo hedge]

T95 has a great gun. Do you have all the Provisions and rights enhancement?

[drowsy plaza]

Are you being serious? I get the impression half of your posts are just trolling.

[mental pasture]

My only problem about T95 is the speed and I DON'T WANT this problem to end.
That's a good tank in an overall

[prisma jetty]

I think it’s fine

[onyx sparrow]

think you need to stop moaning

[full token]

Wow it’s like the WT has been op for a while

[prisma jetty]

That’s why I chose it, because it’s op. But the T95’s gun handling isn’t too far off from it, so I think it’s fine as is

[upbeat sphinx]

well yes i am serious.
I feel that i need to aim much more, probably because I still have 87% crew. I miss still a lot of shells

[uneven narwhal]

Can't comment on a tank performance with 87% crew

[silk hamlet]

fully equipped with 100% crew the gun is very nice

[drowsy plaza]

Friends don’t let friends play stock tanks or tank with less than 100% crew in tier 9/10.

[full token]

I’d rather grind from 75% than spend a 1000 gold for every tier 10 or whatever a tier 9 crew costs

[uneven narwhal]

Hand over 1k gold for every T9/10 I grind thanks

[drowsy plaza]

@uneven narwhal you can play for 75% and grind in the moron modes or ratings.

But you can’t complain about a tank under 100% not being up to snuff

[uneven narwhal]

Ratings doesn't allow crew less than 100% 👀

[drowsy plaza]

Really?
It used too. But I don’t play 9-10 with less than 100% so I never tried.

[indigo knot]

Tbh I spend 1000 gold for tier 10.....like watching ads and clan missions....plus small amount from BP,gold booster....like you can get it in less than 2 weeks

[candid steeple]

Buff Foch 155 upper plate to 200mm? It has dpm but not good alpha for 7s wait between shots. Speed is superb sometimes faster then meds but trevers is junk. The moment you angle the tank track shot damage are easy. Weak spots that are obsolite since just loading gold makes entire tank as easy to pen like hot knife through the butter. I sinicerely think that not being able to pen Foch everywhere should be a thing and 200m of armor on upper plate is balanced. They buffed 263 to be a front line with far better mobility and armor and dpm then foch but foch is also a front line since tank is not accurate and aiming time is bad and also pen is the lowest of all tds (together with FV4005). It has everything a little bit but nothing above any other td to excel. After changing single shot gun then nerfing clip to the ground and buffing heavies and buffing mediums and buffing other front line tds I think Foch should get that front plate armor buff. Foch is supposed to front line but reality is that whenever someone sees foch they just load gold no skill pen with ease. So you can't be too agressive as you are supposed to and you are not good from range. Tank is good but behind all other tds tbh.

[mental pasture]

Big texts for asking to buff balanced tanks?

Btw, behind all other TDs?

[remote oriole]

I know I shouldn‘t make a cynical comment but come on, nobody could blame me after reading this

[candid steeple]

263 armor buffed so that not even gold can pen anything but lower plate and engine deck if you are close enough. WZ-113G FT also got armor bug so you got no chance to pen anything frontally even with gold except lower plate. Also tank used to have 540 damage gun and not 640. They even buffed that. Foch before autoloader was meh underpowered that no one played. Autoloader came and Foch was OP but then it lost it's burst potential before fist clip gun. Now Foch need 7s to do 1080 damage while FV4005 needs 6s to do 1380 damage. We wont talk about that massive HE nerf that Foch gold with change of calibers which was the biggest problem for grills and other lightly armor tanks. Now everyone can get a spall liner of tanks that need it and even problem with old foch is solved but you know all tanks around are getting buffs even now FV215B 183 after HD textures is getting a monster turret buff and you talk about foch being balanced. It's mediocer same as E4. Td's that they buff get armor buffed where it needs. E4 gets a buff where it doesn't erven get shot that much since hatch exists. But people will demand mediums buffs after mediums buffs. If you think Foch doesn't deserve a buff then WZ nor 263 needed but WG is WG.

[mental pasture]

It's not about "it does/doesn't deserve a buff", It's about balance.
The tank is balanced and further buffs shall affect negatively others. Not necessary.

[leaden holly]

grind your crew in the next gravity mode 🙂

[candid steeple]

T-62A over the top gun depression overbuff was not a game changing that made the tank idiot proof with you can't pen me hull down but I also can now hull down easealy and my dispersion gets buffed. Talk about giving mediums random dpm and armor buffs. Completely changing tank. Foch 155 used to be tank that you can't pen frontally so esealy but now you can. No changes made just not an low skill press 2 key and foch is no more. You tell me that's a worse buff then bs that they have been giving to mediums? Or giving heavies with HD textures a new armor profile and making them a lot but a lot stronger. Dude do you even know what you are saying?

[empty nexus]

I remember when T62A had 5 degrees of gun depression, why did they buff it that much? They hardly touched the 140

[candid steeple]

140 use to have better dispersion and gun depression then T-62A but after WG buffing T-62A again and again 140 fell into the mud. game is just about to wards what WG is biased more. Balance? What is that for them.

[frail silo]

ah yes, they didn't make the tank i wanted unbalanced so i will whine about it.
you are not suggesting anything that is remotely balanced mate

[distant river]

Buffing the Foch isn't a good idea, it's perfectly fine how it is

[candid steeple]

200mm buff to upper plate is unbalanced? Anyone can just press on premium ammo and pen every part of your tank and you are supposed to be front line. How those 2 go together? Gun arch is also extremly small and gun depression is also poor. You have to completely expose that weak armor in order to shoot anyone.

@distant river look at 263 stats. Was that buff justified? I just don't want for everything that exists to just pen Foch like there is no tomorrow. We wont talk about change that 183 will get soon.

[remote oriole]

It wasn‘t really a buff and made playing the tank a fun-deprived experience

[distant river]

Justifying one stupid buff by another one is not a good way of balancing, you don't like how the tank plays then play a different one. No-one is forcing you to like it, but what you can't avoid is that the Foch is balanced how it is

[remote oriole]

It just overperforms but I guess that means it‘s balanced

[candid steeple]

Why are we not talking like that when it comes to WG buffing mediums? Asking for a buff when already all front line td's got buffed is too much but when WG is buffing mediums it's YES and when it's about heavies it's how dare you. Foch is my second t that I got and I liked it a lot especially the looks. They change it and change it and make it not as before but some mix. Remove the 155mm gun from single shot for no reason. How dare people complain about foch? Wouldn't it be fun to give it 2 guns to chose? What if you don't like it, change it? I wouldn't have premium with foch armor that much if 7s between shots was not the thing. 7s was good when it had 640 alpha but 72 for 560 damage shot? I liked Foch and it was my fav TD before autoloader or autoloader before nerfs. Now it's nothing like this 2 things an it's not even compensated for the change in alfa for that clip between shells time. Imagine if your Maus had actually a 400 alpha but they kept same dpm. Would you like the change?

[uneven narwhal]

I don't see why you want a buff to the Foch when its clear above that its already performing quite good

[candid steeple]

My thoughts on Foch over years when fighting it.
Before autoloader: At least it slaps but dpm is bad.
Autoloader first version: That thing is scary.
Autoloader nerf: That thing is eh not even scared. What is 560 alpha when you esealy punish the tank before it can even shoot twice. Khmm 7s khmm.
I don't care about stats on paper but I know that in game I am the most happy to see Foch in enemy team. I don't know about you guys but Foch is for me the least annoying td in game. Even with armor buffed tank still has weak spots unlike other tds that they buffed.

@distant river Ah yes Foch hull down that's how we are looking at the armor profile. Also good luck finding a perfect spot to be hull down with foch. You are still looking at things as like at paper. Most of the time you are looking at foch from above since tank is not a tall tank. Also calibrated shells is a thing. Also now look at 263 and WZ-113.. FT when hull down. Tell me if you see any weak spots if lower plate is hidden since you like to show hull down so much. Come on let's see how armor profile of those 2 tanks look like.

@uneven narwhal Statistics also show that foch 155 has the lowest survival rate of any td in game.

[distant river]

"I liked Foch when it was op, now it's just a good tank I want it buffed"?

If the maus performed well with 400 alpha and the same dpm then it would be a good balance change. Just leave the Foch alone because it's perfectly fine how it is. Also this is the bad armour you are complaining about:

[uneven narwhal]

I don't see how you go against statistical data proving the Foch plays well lol

[distant river]

So you are now complaining it has bad armour when it's in a bad position? You can add cali and you can add EA to get the same red. Also bear in mind not every tank has 340 base HEAT pen. Those two tanks are stronger armour wise but they don't have a clip, stupid HEAT alpha or mobility. All of these together balance the foch, as the stats show. So the best thing to do is leave it alone. @candid steeple

[uneven narwhal]

The point of the game is to win, not survive

Even if it was, the Foch is doing decent in that category

[drowsy plaza]

Hulldown a Foch is a tomato to pretty much anything but other Td’s

It can get to good spots quickly too.

Frankly the only thing WG should do, is fix the single shot gun - or remove it so we don’t see complaints as to why it is so terrible. The single shot gun on the Foch 155 is akin to the 122mm gun on the T-44 —>a terrible idea

[distant river]

T-44-122 supremacy for life 👀

[drowsy plaza]

T-34-2 says go ahead make my day 😎

[distant river]

laughs in better bloom and 1kmph better top speed

[real bison]

regarding this convo:

can we NOT get more armour buffs please

thank you baiii

Foch is good enough as it is

plus the viewfinder weakspot exists

[drowsy plaza]

Admittedly now they have the Grille line with spall liner - I’d be fine with giving the Foch 155 back it’s HE, got to dig those Waffles out somehow.

[quasi axle]

how about we don't?

[leaden flare]

Give me special consumable to counter spall liner😂
Makes them receive normal HE dmg for 20s
For legal reasons this shouldn't be taken too serious

[uneven narwhal]

Watch WG take it seriously

[leaden flare]

I mean I would love smth to counter that dumb provision

[uneven narwhal]

Or we could just remove it entirely

• Not WG

[leaden flare]

Buffs HE by 15% in general😂

[uneven narwhal]

183 be like :heheboi:

[leaden flare]

Light tanks shuckle : were in danger

[scarlet escarp]

seriously u keep spamming messages on me lol. I think you need to put pacifier on ur mouth.

[scarlet escarp]

Just come on, I often get spammed toxic messages in blitz. How to get rid of these? If we can do nothing about it, I guess I'm quitting blitz and move on.

[wide dawn]

you can always turn chat off

[lucid hinge]

Bruh no one's gonna say kind things on the battle field irl

[uneven narwhal]

Too bad this is a game lol not real battlefield
We're not training to drive tanks are we and join the army?

[scarlet escarp]

i do

[modest atlas]

Nerf Chimera, Chimera armor too thick, good speed, high dmg, fast reload, so strong. Black friday make it cheap and everyone get it. PLEASE nerf it

[celest prairie]

How to tanks centurion Defender

[leaden holly]

WG doesnt nerf premiums

[unreal grotto]

Just pull out a kv-5 and make fun of them

[hearty steeple]

They do, and they have in the past with Dracula and Helsing

[wide dawn]

WG usually doesn't nerf premiums

[versed tide]

And type 59

[real bison]

it has a 14s reload

more than enough time to get your own shot in

if anything, Cent 5/1 is the thing you should fear, it’s literally a better centurion in every way, with the only downside of the 5/1 being it’s alpha

@frail silo funnily enough, the 5/1 can pen the Chimera through its turret, whereas the Chimera cannot pen the 5/1 through the turret, and both tanks perform best while hulldown

[frail silo]

chimera is still better

@real bison good joke, the chimera will always outtrade you.
and you will do a puny 190 damage to it.
and the chimera will most certainly be around cover, so it will take its shot and get back to cover. and it outtrades everything in tier 8, unless you are bold enough to go against it in a td.
at which that is half or 1/3 of your hp gone in one shot anyway.

[leaden holly]

They usually don’t and that’s why they introduced collector tanks that can be nerfed if necessary but what did they nerf on Dracula and Helsing?

[versed tide]

Hulldown you won’t be penning the 5/1 in the first place though

[sleek grove]

honestly i dont find chimera hard to counter its turret is paper and if ur hulldown he is done

[frail silo]

and you won't be shooting the chimera when it goes back to cover, your point?
you are not the sole target in the battle.
the turret is troll unless you have a high pen gun, but it still outtrades you every single shot.

[exotic goblet]

so does every tank that has high alpha, so they should all be nerfed?

With your logic, the action x seems very bad, cos u just shoot the enemy for 190 while they shoot u back for 400 and back into cover right? Lets buff the action x then, make it go 80km and have 930 alpha, maybe even maus armour. Does it seem balanced now?

[elfin wing]

Well that "when it goes back to cover" thing makes dpm meaningless. So big alpha always wins? Yeah chimera is not the only target but neither you are. U need to eliminate biggest thread first, simple. AND you shouldnt get into that kind of trades against big guns, couldnt you learn it yet?

Chimera has thin armor, not so good turret and bad dpm (makes sense, since you know, it has alpha). If you start trading shots you lose, ok. Then, DONT. Move accordingly and use your dpm against it (or armor, whatever you have)

[frail silo]

@exotic goblet yes but tell me, what does the chimera give away to have the alpha it gets? besides its DPM of course. it also gets special consumables on top of all of that.
i wouldn't say it is OP but i dunno why some people seem to consider it very easy to deal with.
also i like how you use a fallacy as an argument but alrighty.
and i never mentioned the action x nor did i say that pea shooters are bad but lmao.
@elfin wing i don't need to learn anything bro. i don't need to be taught how to play the game.
my skills are adequate enough.

[elfin wing]

@frail silo Well what you are saying is like comparing apples to oranges. Btw you are not the actual target of my message i guess, sorry for that. I should ping @modest atlas.

[exotic goblet]

The Chimera gives away dpm (as you mentioned), acceleration (i don't know the exact stats but it felt very sluggish when i drove it), aiming time, large size

By your logic, pea shooters definitely seem worse than high alpha guns lmao

[sleek grove]

Blitz noob : haha yes big Gun iz very gud
Blitz Chad : any gun works against any tank

[frail silo]

special consumables solve all the problems you mentioned except for dpm though? and what logic, i was only replying to the assessment that cent 5/1 is better than chimera.
and the size literally don't matter as long as you got cover to back into, it isn't even that large. and the turret is adequate enough for tier 8.

@sleek grove ah yes, because i definitely said that. i might be biased against pea shooters but that doesn't mean i can't make them work.

[gleaming apex]

billiam123#5182 has been warned.

[frail silo]

@exotic goblet who do you think his messages was directed at? lol.
also, of course not. you don't see me saying T-34-3 is better than cent 5/1 because it has higher alpha.
i am taking other stats into account, and i am not arguing against big alpha vs pea shooter. i am arguing against that cent 5/1 is better than chimera.

[exotic goblet]

@frail silo I think it was directed at me if i have to guess. So that counts as abbreviated swearing, fair enough.

Special consumables doesn't solve acceleration problem.

By what you said it seems that big alpha is better than pea shooter, if you mean otherwise, fine then.

Size does matter, sure it might not if u find a good cover, but the point is that it is harder for larger tanks to find cover and hide than smaller tanks.

Also, Free_C1p never said anything about you not being able to make small guns work lmao

[sleek grove]

Idk but I found a pic of his jagaroo stats and let's say he only has 2300 avg dmg in it so idk how good he is in big guns as well💀 💀

[frail silo]

how'd you get my stats when you don't have my in game name? @sleek grove Lol.
@exotic goblet "Special consumables doesn't solve acceleration problem." yeah that is correct, forgot it doesn't have the speed boost.
"By what you said it seems that big alpha is better than pea shooter, if you mean otherwise, fine then." no i was arguing against cent 5/1 is better than chimera, you don't see me saying t-34-4 is better than cent 5/1. other stats are taken into consideration as well.
"Size does matter, sure it might not if u find a good cover, but the point is that it is harder for larger tanks to find cover and hide than smaller tanks." fair enough.
"Also, Free_C1p never said anything about you not being able to make small guns work lmao" well, i just took it as implied. but fair enough.

[sleek grove]

@frail silo this you? 💀

[frail silo]

one year ago? yes
but you ignored my avg E100
also jag is my first tier 10 so it really isn't fair to judge from it.
@quartz wasp because you can't have an discussion here without someone making it a skill issue.

[upbeat sphinx]

buff the type 59, it is not possible that it has worst dpm than autoloaders

[quartz wasp]

why does balance discussion ends up with someone stats on a jgpz e100?

[sleek grove]

still bad lol

@quartz waspbc he said he is good enough he doesnt need anyones advices or tips so i had to bring the good ol' ur bad