tank-balance-discussion

[willow hawk]

I agree with this. My first tech tree line was the Patton line. My first tier 10 was the Patton. My whole learning process of the game was through this tech tree line. The Patton line is the Jack-of-All-Trades, Master of None. I loved the T20…in fact at some point before getting the M48, the T20 was my most played tank. It taught me how to flank and hit enemies because my gun wasn’t good enough to fight head on. It taught me how to stay alive because I had no armor to depend on.

On to the next point: I read somewhere above in this chat of an idea to shove every tank from the Patton line down one tier, from tier 7 to 10. That is absolutely not ok. Unless you’re trying to add an M60A3 to the game, then the M48 Patton and its ascendants must all STAND where they are. No pushing an M48 down to tier 9.

On another thought…M26 Pershing can use a buff on the gun mantlet, maybe a gun penetration buff to around 190-200mm pen, and instead of APCR for prammo , a swap for silver AP like what the Eagle 7 has.

[gaunt coyote]

no, just no 🤦‍♀️

[twin egret]

Did you enjoy the T21 too?

[gray seal]

💀 missiles were very good and balanced

[leaden flare]

how about they give the T95E2 some love
it had nothing except for prammo pen

[real bison]

deserves to be a worse 59-Patton ngl

[willow hawk]

Idk, did you?

[quasi axle]

Your tournament results are quite impressive.

[stray verge]

Because it kind of does, and the statistics should be pretty obvious. Fine, you might have fun with these tanks but having fun in a tank does not make the tank good.

T20 is barely faster than a Rudy yet has a mediocre 225 alpha and 2k DPM that is the lowest out of all tier seven mediums and no armor. Pershing might of been a jack of all trades in earlier iterations of blitz but now? It’s just a tank that doesn’t have anything good. Armor isn’t good, neither is the mobility, concealment/viewrange is just average for a medium, and the gun? 2.1k DPM is appaling to even other tier eight mediums, even ones with 100mm guns. Lets not forget that tier eight mediums loose DPM over tier seven ones. Gun handling is nothing to brag about and you do have a good gold shell but whats the point of a good gold shell when everything else sucks? M46 isn’t bad with managable mobility and good DPM…but you have the Type 61 and the Vickers.

Going through the line isn’t for nothing, M48 is one of the most meta tier ten mediums with good DPM, view range, turret, gd, and good enough mobility to take positions.

[full token]

225 is above average for a medium in that tier

[twin egret]

Yea

[safe rapids]

^^^ at least T20 isn’t as powercrept, if at all, like the T-43 or maybe the comet

[quasi axle]

How is t20 not powercrept but the comet and t43 are

[nimble zodiac]

I'd take the Comet over T20 any day

It has far more DPM to the point that APCR has more DPM than T20's AP. It's generally more accurate, and has more gun depression. The maneuverability is generally better, and the armor, as useless as is, is better than T20's

[safe rapids]

Take that back comet isn’t exactly powercrept it just struggles a bit with standard pen. T-43 though it irrelevant now that it has the T-44-85 and the Rudy. Eagle 7 is different enough from the T20 that it isn’t powercrept.

[cerulean mason]

Buff the DPM of AMX 30B.

[winged barn]

Don't mind the actually usable alpha and pen the t20 has to work with

[twin egret]

Don't forget Type 62 exists kekw

[safe rapids]

Oh yeah that lol, with that crazy heat pen.

[unique scaffold]

Pls Wargaming buff sheridan. ONLY extremely good players can do damage with it, and I bet the average player has a very low average damage per game with it. It has the same speed and armor of the other light tanks, but way less damage per minute and and way more dispersion. Every time another light tank (like a bat chatillon) approaches me I already know there's nothing I can do to survive (I tried HEs but even when the armor is highlighted as penetrable I still do around 300 damage, surely not enough).

[willow hawk]

They would not buff a tank that they just nerfed. A few updates ago they nerfed the Sheridan’s gun penetration, horsepower /traverse speed…what makes you think they’ll just re-buff it?

[sand trout]

they nerfed it half a year ago, it needs a buff because rn the tanks gun is worse than the. t92e1's. To the person below: the sheris dpm is higer but the t92e1 has better otm dispersion and is equal in every other catagory

[nimble zodiac]

Yeah okay.

[high bay]

Yeah but its .1% more move

[uneven narwhal]

Sheridan feels wayy more accurate than its supposed to be for some reason

[sand trout]

the sheri got its gun nerfed for no good reason, the only op thing about it was the missles. I want them to revert that nerf

[nimble zodiac]

I mean, it's a high-alpha light tank, and does that job really well

The main reason light tanks like Sheridan can't perform as well as they should be is that the maps are small and heavies and TDs have that view range

[quasi axle]

Nerf heavy td and med viewrange ggez

[balmy obsidian]

Nah, just Heavy View Range

[wicked quest]

It got nerfed in other areas it literally had 370 pen and could accelerate faster than a Dracula

[dense oyster]

Sheridan's horsepower was nerfed which made it slower in the acceleration.
(the fastest acceleration at tier 10 is the leopard 1. which is faster than all the lights: Fun Fact.)

[sand trout]

Yes, it shouldn’t have been nerfed in those areas as well

[nimble zodiac]

<@&481447501690568709> we got sumn new
Enemy down.

It’s just so cringe to me

[dry rivet]

discord bots always flooding channels with nonsense...like everytime I scroll through social media to find a clickbait staged comedy video where everyone pretends to be amazed with some bad acting.... ikr!

[dry rivet]

I remember the good old days when the Sherman Jumbo could bounce shots left and right, including Tiger 8,8 guns at point blank...now it can get penned straight through the gun mantlet with relative ease...

[nimble zodiac]

I mean you have a slightly low chance of bouncing if you gunblock them

[dry rivet]

I just think that the tank deserves more love. It's a Jumbo. Its hallmark is being nearly impregnable, even to some of the hardest hitting guns in history. (maybe not the 152mm, but definitely 88s) the War Thunder Jumbo is so good...just not here... @nimble zodiac

[wicked quest]

You do know the guns the Germans Mount ingame especially panther and tiger weren’t actually mounted right…

[willow hawk]

Maybe restrict the Jumbo from seeing tier 7. I think the alternative option to buffing the Jumbo is to let it have preferential matchmaking, so that it wouldn’t see tier 7. The current version of the Jumbo is way too slow and has a very low penetration gun, so it cannot flank and outmaneuver opponents, neither can it rely on its armor when facing tier 7.

So takeaway is:
Sherman Jumbo needs preferential matchmaking, restricted from seeing tier 7.

Reason:

1. Low penetration, slow reloading, small caliber gun, mediocre accuracy

2. Cannot rely speed to compensate for poor gun performance

3. Cannot rely on armor when facing /encountering tier 7 guns.

@wicked quest what are your thoughts on this?

[cold ocean]

Sounds like a skill issue. Maybe you should click on that uninstall button and take a moment to think of the mistakes you made in life that led you to complain about the Sheridan needing a buff

[unique scaffold]

https://tenor.com/view/go-away-oops-awkward-big-eyes-gif-16408506

[zenith veldt]

Has anyone experienced 10 or more losestreaks?

[mighty spear]

Yes

[unique scaffold]

Yes

[little sundial]

Yes

[fallow eagle]

Yes

[deep shadow]

Why will the Panther I be nerfed? It is historically a very strong tank. It is perfect in its current state! Why nerf it till it becomes the worse tier 7 medium in 8.4? The T23E3, one of the worst tier 7 now, will be technically better than the Panther in 8.4. The Panther without its armor will not be unique! Additionally, we will lose another tech tree tank that can compete with the overpowered collectors and premiums in tier 7. Is this the beginning of the end for tech tree tanks in tier 7? Will the Tiger 1, LTTB (nerfed a while ago), and etc be nerfed even more? Lol 😄

[distant river]

"Why nerf this tank that is too good in this extremely unhistoric game"
The T23E3 was already faster and had more dpm 🤦‍♀️

Actually nvm nerf the panther by making its engine break every game much better idea

[twin egret]

"It is historically a very good tank"
This is a tank that is facing guns late into world war WWII, in Blitz, of course they can pen. There's the 17-pdr

[mental pasture]

This looks like a Spore compliment in civil stage.
"Our people admire your large extensions of land."

@deep shadow You want historical accuracy? Go play War Thunder, here we have no space for "Hur dur, it's a fantasy tank. Didn't like it" kids

[drowsy plaza]

The same goes for many tanks, as few of the top guns where ever available for most of the tanks in game.

[lofty mist]

many tanks in the game never existed past the blueprint or prototype stage. idk why people look for historical accuracy when most of the tanks in the game never existed irl.

[versed tide]

Panther wasn’t really op it’s that all the other t7 mediums (tech tree) suck

[nimble zodiac]

I like how you call Panther OP because only the mediums in tier 7 failed to outperform it

It’s not OP because there’s much more than mediums kn tier 7 that are actually busted

[quasi axle]

I admire your incredible analysis of the situation.

[golden turret]

I guess EU players are a tad bit toxic when all you have to do is tell him that Sheridan is meant for good players and you can’t just yolo the enemy team instead of telling him to delete the game

[versed tide]

Sheridan is fine as is

[deep shadow]

Lol So many people want the Panther to be nerfed! How about the Drac and Smasher nerfs? I did not call Panther OP. I think it is totally fine in its current state. Why the extra, unnecessary work from the balancing team? The Smasher and Dracula are fun too. Nerfing the Panther makes it not fun. It might also shock new players when they though the Panther would be strong against Shermans (8.4 tier 6s can easily pen 8.4 Panther) when it is not. I am fine with Fantasy tanks. I am not fine when they is a historically significant tank and it does not have a historical legendary camo or battlefield reputation in the game. I like how players are scared of my Su-152 and Tiger 2 (like in real life).

[ionic egret]

How about t44-85 pen buff

[uneven narwhal]

<@&481447501690568709>

[gleaming apex]

SF_Datboi477[-DCR-]#4683 was banned

[modest atlas]

Tier 8 are too overpowered for tier 7 players

[jagged crescent]

Tiger II moment

[twin egret]

They're nerfing the Panther I to make it more Historical, capiche?

[stuck acorn]

Panther shouldn't be nerfed, but it have nothing to do with historical accuaracy tho. It's not panther that is OP, it's other T7 mediums that are outdated garbage

+when will we finally get T7 charts Wg? Eveybody already knows that smasher and anni will have like twice as much wr as other T7's so you don't need to hide that

@drowsy plaza agreed. T7 is big imbalance party. Even when we skip the smasher and anni there is bunch of broken and overbuffed tech trees like T29 or Black Prince with their stupid brainded gameplay, or assault tank destroyers like T25 AT or CHi to SPG, while on the other hand we have tanks like T43, T20, AMX 13 75 or T34-1 i don't even remember when were buffed last time and nobody wants to play anymore

[drowsy plaza]

@stuck acorn fantastic point. While the Panther was an over performing med, the issue was other tier 7 (and then tier 8) meds needed buffs to account for the absolutely brain dead amount of buffs to already strong heavy tanks, and the downright broken tanks like the Annihilator

[full token]

Please don’t delay the 8.2 charts to when you get the 8.4 charts ready…

[distant river]

People seem to be forgetting about the huge difference between tier 6 and 7 right now. If you buff tier 7 meds to the panthers level then tier 6s are at an absolutely gigantic disadvantage. Think of fighting an arl... but with much much better speed... and a better gun... Meanwhile the difference between tier 8s and good tier 7 meds is smaller than it should be. If you keep buffing things while not nerfing things like the panther, you just keep making more problems than you solve.

[stuck acorn]

Then what soulution you think is good rn? After releasing such OP premiums as Anni there is none. If you nerf T7 tech trees to actual med level, you will solve T6-T7 gap problem, but you will make smasher and anni which even if can - won't get nerfed even bigger problem. After releasing tanks like mentioned above there is no more other solution than rebalance of whole game below T8 or rebalnce of premium tanks. (i mentioned whole game below T8 on purpose, because if you buff T6, the gap between T5 and T6 which is also already huge will become even bigger, same goes for T4-T5 gap etc.)

[distant river]

The solution is easy: Push for a nerf to the prems, don't let WG think their policy is okay.

If you keep being passive and attempting to brush over the huge problems that exist in tier 7 then you will never get a half decent solution because the issues are so huge. Everything that accepts and defends "oh it's a prem it can't be nerfed" and works around it is never going be successful until you rebalance every single other tank which is way too much work for wg and will end up removing many tanks uniqueness.

Nerfing the panther is a lot better than saying that tier 7 should have a medium with a fantastic gun that can yolo any tank and bounce almost all their shots, as well as be able to hold with its armour and work against tier 8s with it's fantastic pen.

[stuck acorn]

Even if it's only theory and will never get implemented, i think good idea may be doing once for like 1 or 2 years big premium rebelance, that everybody would know about. It would be like christmas event, it would be sure that it will happen every 1 or 2 years in for example october. In this update WG would nerf/buff premium tanks so they are actually balanced and then never touch them again until the next rebalance. It would give people that want to buy premiums confirmation that tanks they actually paid for won't get nerfed until the rebalance so they actually know when possible nerf/buff may come and won't be forced to play roulette when buying them and be healthy for the game if WG would actually nerf and buff those tanks which deserve it (ekhm tiger 1, T29 and E50M buffs)

btw i'm really curious what others may think about this idea, i didn't think about it a lot, but maybe it's a fair solution for both, people that bought their prems and people that want to have balanced game

[runic karma]

jpz e100 at tier 6 plz

[uneven narwhal]

the everyone tag at #game-news really brought out the monkeys 💀

[full token]

Give me KV2 at tier 2 pls

[unique scaffold]

I personally love that tank and find its playstile unique and balanced. At first I hated it too, but then I understood how to play it: just push alongside with the heavies and sidescrape wherever possible. Remember to never get too close to the enemies (even IS-7s can easily circle you) and with 3 shots the job is done.

[nimble zodiac]

"even IS-7s can easily circle you" like an IS-7 isn't one of the 50 speeders in tier 10

[exotic goblet]

i still find it crazy how it is faster than the m48 patton top speed wise

[fallow eagle]

On pc, is7 has 59 km/hr top speed lol

[raw herald]

Blance discusion:nerf smasher like wargaming did to annihilator

[nimble zodiac]

Name the nerf.

[uneven narwhal]

Probably talking about that when one team has an Anni, the other one does as well

[nimble zodiac]

Oh, so guaranteeing a WR over 50%, nice, nice

[unique scaffold]

Is there anything that can be done to make performance of O-47 more unique? Does it need a buff?

[quartz cove]

i think need buff for front

[unique scaffold]

I thought maybe it could get 2 shells autoreloader or its side "ears" on turrets be made spaced armor completely.

[uneven narwhal]

<@&481447501690568709> geez

[gleaming apex]

Absen14#6923 was banned

[empty nexus]

<@&481447501690568709> Free nitro

[quartz cove]

good idea i agree with 2 shells autoreloader make it useful than now

[unique scaffold]

I mean, it would sure be kinda quirky mechanic and would make sense to give it 6s reload when it can prepare 2 shots

[formal rose]

The Soviet MT-25 tier VI, in the AE shells of its automatic loaders, has very little penetration, making it useless to have this ammunition equipped, which I have only been able to use against an AMX ELC bis, but in the other tanks it is completely useless to use it and having ammo only for a lower tier tank makes it inefficient. Can the penetration value of AE ammunition be increased?

[full token]

Do you mean HE?

[empty nexus]

It’s a low caliber gun, Low caliber HE shells always have bad pen and I wouldn’t recommend carrying any. HE she’ll penetration is better on larger caliber guns.

@uneven narwhal that’s a Big overreaction, I don’t think it will be that bad. T10 is probably the most balanced tier in the game. Or maybe tier 9 idk, but definitely not 8 or 7. Tier 1 very balanced 🤪🤓

[uneven narwhal]

Say goodbye to what little balance T10 had left

[uneven narwhal]

It was balanced until they introduced the Yoh
Now they're introducing the RNG bias yes very balanced

[versed tide]

60tp and yoh are breaking t10 balance

[quartz cove]

TRUE

[uneven narwhal]

Wargaming learn balancing when? 😔

[last shadow]

They see their money go up and they react accordingly
More premiums
Balancing something doesn't bring as much money as implementing new stuff

[pseudo hedge]

tank thats not in the game yet already breaks it.

Is this so called "60TP" currently in the room with us ?

Well you can't play it yet and not in the game is not in the game. Dosnt matter if 1 day or 10 years

[versed tide]

Well it’s going to be released in one day. It has been played because it’s been tested and like it’s clearly broken. I’m not sure what your point is

[uneven narwhal]

okay lets change it to "60tp is going to break the balance"
happy?

[empty nexus]

It may, you can never be too sure but Yeah like the Yoh I think it will be nerfed, Specifically I think tungsten will become something like 95-125% knowing Wargaming. Same way they didn’t get rid of super speed, just nerfed it.

I meant the Yoh will be nerfed after a few updates. Wargaming aren’t quick to nerf newly released tanks - + I think they nerfed it during super test. Used to have 1 second interclip if I remember right😭😭

[uneven narwhal]

Yoh is nerfed? I don't recall anything like that
And they took like an eternity to nerf the Super Speed lmao

[outer glen]

They just got nerfed in opentest not after released yeah b4 it has like 15-16 reload and 1.4s intra clip for 120mm

[stuck acorn]

+it was faster

[gleaming apex]

Alchemy#6401 has been warned.

[drowsy plaza]

Speed was not altered. Just reload for the 120mm and aim time for the 120mm on the Yoh during Live Test

[hollow nacelle]

bruh

[safe rapids]

They nerfed the power to weight ratio and some other soft mobility stats in test but not the actual speed.

[quasi axle]

nerfing p/w ratio is nerfing mobility is it not

[versed tide]

But he said it was faster which is generally considered top speed

[nimble zodiac]

Alright then

I can say that the VK 36.01 H is the fastest heavy in the game under base values 😳

[dense oyster]

hehe yeah boi,
51km on VK.36 go Brrr
@versed tide if your going down a hill yes, but it has to be on normandy 🤣

[versed tide]

Until 50tp with gear oil. Does vk36 even ever hit 51 top speed. @nimble zodiac got me there >:)

[nimble zodiac]

"under base values"
I cover my tracks 😉

And it surely can with a little decline long enough

[uneven narwhal]

Goodbye tier 10 balance, little of it that was left 🥺

[tawdry hornet]

tier x is balanced in this game unlike wot pc

[uneven narwhal]

It was, until Yoh came, then 60TP comes in 🥴

[deep shadow]

WOTB Tier 10 Ht and Td Balancing Idea to solve the toxic spam of Yohs and 60 TPs 😄 Please read everyting! 😄

[sand wagon]

bad idea

[deep shadow]

Oh ok... why? 😄

[nocturne mauve]

It was balanced before the heavy HP buff

[deep shadow]

But then 60 Tp and Yohs will have to be nerfed... What about just re-buffing heavy tanks to pre-8.2 and more without nerfing Yohs and 60 Tp.... I have not given them broken consumable... I only maintained FV215B's speed boost and gave the Super Speed boost to all UK and Us tds. Did you read everything? 🙂 Mts and Lts aren't obsolete even before 8.2... there were pretty strong... even if everything goes as the changes listed above... Mts and Lts are still very strong

[sand wagon]

you do realize the heavies were nerfed for the medium and lights sake? Rebuffing them to their previous stats and on top of that giving them the broken consumables will make meds and lights even more obsolete. if you want the yoh spam to stop, then nerf the tank itself, instead of buffing the rest

[tawdry hornet]

all the heavies that were nefred in 8.2 were nerfed cuz of clan wars

[sand wagon]

you do realize they were used in cw because they were meta. They got nerfed because heavies were the game's meta. if the nerfs were cw based, then fv215b would not have gotten nerfed, as I do not think it made a single appearance, at least on the eu server

[tawdry hornet]

fv215b would have just replaced e5 thats why they nerfed it

[deep shadow]

lol nobody reading what I suggested lol

[tawdry hornet]

I haven't even got the update how is 60tp op

[orchid grove]

215b got nerfed precisely because of comp. It was one of the worst performing heavies in pubs, but WG preemptively nerfed it because they were worried it might become dominant after the other heavies got nerfed and meds got more common

[minor minnow]

<@&481447501690568709>

[tranquil radish]

So if I’m reading and interpreting correctly the answer to the yoh spam is a med based fast attack?

[pulsar nebula]

Please boost ARL 44 backward speed again. ARL 44 rely on it so bad.
It need backward speed for hulldown strategy - proven to work well with it sloped front armor

[fallow eagle]

Yes buff a tank that is already destroying the tournaments

[nimble zodiac]

It literally doesn't matter if it's hulldown, the turret is still the weakspot

ARL 44 is just overpowered anyways

[uneven narwhal]

You know you got a problem when a low tier OP tank is deeming of a buff according to you, the update really brought out all the monkes 😂

[jagged crescent]

why does the 60tp go 42kmph

[versed tide]

Because yes

[fallow eagle]

Went from Paul Walker to Kevin Hart real quick

[haughty marsh]

because reasons, also the WG devs are probably no comp fans , because if they were , they would fear to see teams composed of 60 TP's and Yoh's only in the twister cup

[jagged crescent]

The nerfed the old meta's heavies because they wanted to encourage medium gameplay. I wonder how well did that go 😂

[somber badge]

Yeah no its dumb, 60tp is too much. It's just stupid.

[real bison]

“buff VK72 lfp till it can’t be penned by Ho ri prammo”

please delete the game

watching professional comp≠ pro comp player

I will add more as I read

great idea to give the purposely slow AT tanks speed boost may as well give the worst power/weight ratio TD at tier X it as well, FV183 should be slow

grille’s playstyle is either camping far back or 2nd line ambush, adding more camo worsens the camping problem

badger and E3 deserve nothing

Only the Foch 155’s stock gun needs a buff, the autoloader is fine, so is the armour

[leaden flare]

Grille deserves camo but the entire line shouldn't have spall liner
Badger isn't that good at all it's pretty garbadge slow, weak sides, bad gun arc and overall not very useful on 99% of the maps

[hollow nacelle]

say that to the sherman

[dense oyster]

Personally tanks that need rebalancing (not Buffing,), ⚖️
Leopard 1 (its has been powercrept by the Vickers light)
M6 Yoh (it has a crazy gun)
FV 215B (it needs something,)
Centurion and Caernarvon (both need to share a new 32pdr gun which has semi-HESH)
nerf the smasher's gun,
remove the Annihilator's special consumables.
buff Grille15's HE pen

[safe rapids]

Leo1 is fine, but everything else I agree with. Leo hasn’t been powercrept as much, it actually has more mobility because it gets up to speed quicker than the 105, and it has the insane DPM. It’s just very hard to play and always has been.

[dark pike]

i still dont know why the grille has 75mm of HE pen

[nimble zodiac]

5449 DPM =o-o=
Best HE DPM as far as I know, and you wanna buff the pen for it?

[willow hawk]

Preach, 7777, preach. Debunk every single opinion 😅

[deep shadow]

Ok Thanks! I did say I was offering the perspective of a new nub 😄 I just watch professional comp.... I never said that I am a pro comp player... which is why I wrote my background so that people know where I am coming from.... I am not pro... I stated I am an average player... :D... I just suggested more variety to comp gameplay as I noticed during each meta... there are only a few tanks used in comp... not a large spectrum... only max 5 heavies used in comp per meta.... just suggested changing a few tanks' playstyles to expand the variety of Hts and Tds used in comp... 😄 Thanks for the points given! 😄 I purposely gave the all British TDs the Super Speed Boost because I wanted to change the playstyle of the 183 and let the Badger have similar mobility to the American TDs since I added Super Speed Boost to all American TDs. I wanted to solve the "toxic" camping 183 problem.... I see why 183 should be slow as it should have a camping playstyle (which it does now). I noticed that the Badger is performing below average because of its average armor, on-movement-dispersion, and poor mobility compared to E3... which is why i suggested buffs to these respective areas (implement Super Speed Boost and slightly buff on-movement-dispersion and armor). I did not buff or change the E3... I only gave E4 Super Speed Boost (I did list it as optional) as there would be a logical pattern of "Only American and British TDs having Super Speed Boost." To balance E4 and prevent a complete meta switch to E4s only, I nerfed E4's DPM. Please don't say I delete the game! 😄 I really like the game... it was one of the only games I found that is sophisticated and fun. It is a high-quality mobile game compared to many other games 7, 6, 5 years ago. I really liked this game. I may not understand the game as much as most folks here... but I hope I have the same enjoyment in the game as they do. 😄 VK72 is a bit lacking in the current meta... so to make it unique I gave it impenetrable front 😄

[nimble zodiac]

I ain’t got the cooldown speed to do that

[willow hawk]

Then let’s get your name to turn from blue to pink 😉

[zenith steppe]

Vk 72 is actually a really great tank even though it has some weak spots. I don't find the lower front plate to be a problem. The high alpha makes up for the weak lower plate. Trading with heavies is how I play it and it works out for me.

[twin egret]

Give FV calibrated reticle

[deep shadow]

Oh ok! :D... then we better need more training videos on how to play the VK 72 as most VK 72 I meet are really bad lol :D... I also find the VK 72 strong in the hands of good players... however... it is not that easy to play for some if not most of the playerbase on Asia based on my observations 😄

[empty nexus]

Y e s 😂

[slow marten]

... update 8.4, was there some changes to Annihilators numbers in game? -> So that battle is in balance if Annihilators play in platoon but if Annihilator is alone, the number in game is always equal 🤔

[minor minnow]

Chances are there were no Annihilators in the matchmaker at that time, so the matchmaker ignored that rule to get a battle going for the platoons

[gleaming monolith]

Had a battle today ,reds had an annihilator, we didn't. Maybe something changed in the update.. Tier 7 will always be a mess.

[long acorn]

Update

[unique scaffold]

why isnt microsoft purchases opening when i try to buy something in the store on my pc

[gleaming apex]

Sgt_Fury21#2591 has been warned.

[nimble zodiac]

Be a shame if you were DM'd by a bot that gives you a reason of the warn

Ouch.

[gleaming apex]

Sgt_Fury21#2591 was banned

[eager spindle]

60tp ammorack do be going brrrrrt

[unique scaffold]

<@&481447501690568709>

[twin egret]

Stealing is not the way

[quiet pilot]

nerf the entire polish line

[gleaming apex]

JanuszGamesYt#8600 has been warned.

[leaden flare]

#737243639863967805 @unique scaffold

[gleaming apex]

Johnny_291#4930 has been warned.

Johnny_291#4930 was muted

[versed tide]

1 this channel isn’t for match making two how does this relate to balance

[quasi axle]

there are 7 players on each team, so it seems balanced to me.

[dusky anchor]

can wg just nerf the wt to the grave every 12 yr old is playing it, I see people with 30k battles on it, take away its perks and nerf its gun, how hard is it- also its not a prem tank so they have all the right to it

[unique scaffold]

True

[real bison]

personally think it’s fine

[unique scaffold]

@fickle peak pinned message. Read them.

[frail silo]

It is stupidly over cooked
You could put it at tier 10 and i would do just fine.

[elder brook]

So the polish line is good or no because i'm stuck in 8.3 (the t6 is good?)

[uneven narwhal]

Not even worth arguing tbh
Let's go back to actual balance discussion

WG nerf Yoh

[weary spruce]

Buff amx ac 46 camo pls

[indigo knot]

Can we get the new provisions and consumables for every tank in the game or be removed from game....
Reactive armour, Improved speed boost, Tungsten shells, Reticle calibration
Sandbag armour, Improved gun powder, Gear oil
Either give them to all the tanks or just remove them from the game
It is just poor and lazy balancing in general
They make average tanks meta or OP.....like you guys know yourself E5, 215b were mediocre at best up until they got the consumable which made them the meta pick in tournaments or for simply farming WR
Then they got hard nerfed and lost their identity (215B was high dpm heavy with accurate gun with nothing else going for it, E5 was jack of all trades and master of none without the consumables and now it is just bad)
Now you guy bring a new line and give it special consumables which I doubt you even tested properly and said that the balancing factor is that you have only one repairs.....which is easy to bypass since you are a going to play mostly hulldown and farm from there...like you guys must have seen how well E5 did perform with one repair kit only
Later when 60TP will be tournament meta tank it will be nerfed to oblivion instead of removing the special consumables and provisions....which without them it would have been perfectly balanced tank

Another thing I have issue with is why are recent addition of heavy tanks getting 20kmph reverse speed....Heavies should be capped at 15kmph reverse speed ....
20 should be only for Medium tanks while 23-25 should be for lights and pseudo light Mediums like Leo1, 30B @lusty silo

[uneven narwhal]

+1
Super Consumables do nothing but make balancing even more of a nightmare

[full token]

Still no 8.2 or 8.3 stats :(. Maybe we’ll have to just wait for the 8.4 stats now…

[silver urchin]

Just buff:
Conqueror armor
Caernavon armor
Rebalance Tiger 2 armor
Give a better turret to leopard 1
Make the cupola of the T110E3 good again
Buff M103 turret and reduce HEAT penetration
IS-5 and IS-3 up plate and acurracy
And just nerf:
Annihilator speed and damage
Smasher armor and penetration
Helsing reload time and armor
Dracula spaced armor
Obj 252u sides

[muted oracle]

Can’t nerf premiums unfortunately. And 252 is fine if you don’t just auto aim

[minor minnow]

Don’t give the leopard turret armor.

[full token]

Going through all the predecessors and not having turret armor and then the Leopard 1 is a hulldown tank

[indigo knot]

Isn't that Stb1
even M48 patton

[full token]

It is, but the Leo1 doesn’t need to be like that

[muted oracle]

Leo 1 would probably be the best tier 10 medium if it got a solid turret. Basically a better stb 1

[gleaming apex]

BlackBaron44#1745 has been warned.

BlackBaron44#1745 was softbanned

kachun92#2026 has been warned.

CatOfTranquility#8854 has been warned.

[teal palm]

Huh

[sharp saddle]

I wouldn’t buff the turret of all things on the Leopard. It’s supposed to be a fragile tank. We don’t need yet another medium tank with turret armour and hulldown capabilities

[mental pasture]

Well, hull down on Leopard 1 is a good choice because you're going to decrease a lot your silhouette, but I recommend to only poke and go back

[full token]

I meant hulldown with armor

[real bison]

the E3 cupola is still good

learn to aim as well, then the 252’s side won’t seem so thick

[silver urchin]

Not even a Tier 9 pen the sides of the obj 252u, that tank is broken in any tournament.

[quasi axle]

You can pen in a tier 7

[uneven narwhal]

Aiming solves the problem

[indigo knot]

Leo1 and 140 do need some buffs
Everything around them is getting buffed significantly
While they haven't been touched (like .1 sec buff to Leo1 was unnoticeable) btw same patch 62A got -7 gun depression
Since then Stb1 got massive armour buffs and some gun handling buffs, 121 and 121B got massive Dpm buffs, M48 and M60 massive dpm buffs, E50m Dpm buff and mobility buffs,4202 too got top speed buff, T22 never would have gotten anything
New 907 is worse than them tho
Upcoming is Kamf Pz 50T is has best tier 10 dpm for Meds and has more than enough armour for meds

[real bison]

it has 100mm side armour

just aim slightly above the tracks

not hard to do

[jagged crescent]

the 60tp has no business having a 15kmph reverse speed if the gear oil can further buff that to almost 20

[spice birch]

wg pls fix the fricking server issue already

[nimble zodiac]

Really wondering about how much ammo rack HP the 60TP has

[leaden flare]

No idea why everyone is so obsessed with tiger 2 having sooo good Armor

Played 53tp pressed 2 and the tiger 2 Armor turned grey😂

[nimble zodiac]

I think it would serve it better to take armor from the LFP and transfer it to the UFP, so LFP becomes a weakspot that can be hidden anyways, while the UFP becomes more resistant to prammo

[unique scaffold]

53tp needs nerf to mobility it’s to op

[quartz cove]

everybodu said 53tp too op rather than other polish tank is that true?

[unique scaffold]

Ye it is

[stuck acorn]

i mean all tanks in polish line from T8 to T10 are just broken lol. There is nothing to talk about here. Only disadvantage of 60TP is it's ammorack "durability". except for that it has everything going for it. Decent mobility, good reverse speed, great alpha, decent accuaracy, decent gun depression, decent pen, broken armor with only 4 small weakspots that are easy to hide and really hard to hit

[drowsy plaza]

Cupola is paper

I think the 9 is the best tier for tier.

[nocturne creek]

@drowsy plaza doesnt the 60TP have the weakest ammorack in t10?

[drowsy plaza]

Seems to 😉

[quartz cove]

yea and i was thought it can rival with e100

[limber comet]

Puuuuu mater vam bjelorusku JEBO VAS STALJIN

[stuck acorn]

it is, but try to aim at it while it's hiding it with it's huge gun or he is more than 100-150m away

@quartz cove it's better than E100 anyways lol

[onyx lintel]

🤣

[leaden flare]

Well its almost never able to hide all weakspots
The side spots are fairly easy to hit
It's frontal weakspot is also an easy prammo pen
The front becomes paper as soon as you load prammo if it's heat

[leaden flare]

Yeah it's entire front gets grey with gold on heat if you're a heavy yourself

[dawn olive]

I want Maus Health to be back to 3,000 just because it’s a nice number to me😂

[nimble zodiac]

Too bad it isn’t for much better reasons

[buoyant rock]

When is server Update done?

[worthy trellis]

give JG.PZ E100 back its 420 mm heat pen!!!

[uneven narwhal]

It already has it.....?

[worthy trellis]

no thats calibrated before it had 420mm of pen like it had before it was nerfed for no good reason

[nimble zodiac]

Dang it's almost like 420mm HEAT pen was too much so they nerfed it wowwww

[uneven narwhal]

We obvio need 462mm HEAT pen with CS 😂

[worthy trellis]

it had it from start of the game and never was isue nerf was unesesery!!!!!!!! just give it back its stock 420mm pen

[nimble zodiac]

There's no point, and if you say there is a point then it needed to be nerfed because it helped the Jag

[worthy trellis]

nope it killed the JAG it was weak alredy and they made it even weaker!!!!!!! it did not deserve the nerf

[uneven narwhal]

Jag is far from a weak tank....
800 alpha with lovely accuracy for that caliber and still top penetration levels at 380 HEAT AND the armor when you know how to use it properly
Its just hard to play because of its mobility

[real bison]

^

I’d still say for single shot damage, the Jpz is the best tank for doing it; it’s more reliable than the 183, and has armour that it can use to shrug off shells

[round sundial]

I always found this a bit ridiculous, people always say like "LeARn To aIm", but when I play the game, the aiming circle usually isn't even filled with the enemy tank entirely (in this case the tank's side). If the RNG decides you won't pen, you simply won't.

[indigo knot]

I think Jag is weak tank....
It is big, slow and has heat spamming armour....
Way too dependent on teams and maps
Gun accuracy is good for the caliber...
But overall this tank is in lower echelon imo...
Also I forgot to mention this....it does not have 800 alpha it is 750 alpha effective....

420 heat would be what you could use to pen something like Kran on turret reliably

[full token]

800 is the average. Tanks don’t get different averages from what is stated

[uneven narwhal]

Jag is just hard to play that's all

Yes the superstructure is weak to HEAT but if you wiggle and angle properly, combined with the RNG (as stated below), ypu got yourself workable armor
800 alpha is no joke, that's almost half of a TX meds HP and 1/3rd of a heavy

You may argue that the 183 is better for alpha but it does not hit its shots half the time

[high bay]

The smasher i hate that take and wg won't nerf it i get pissed because when I play jd pz 4 I get one shoted by a kv or smasher

[leaden flare]

Less of the inability and rather RNG beeing a thing
Because Jag has decent accuracy you usually encounter them on a certain distance which makes the big gunmantlet a shell sponge and if you angle a good bunch of shot will bounce too

[mental pasture]

There are tanks with weak overall but meant for fun (Jagdpanzer E100, T49, FV215b 183, Nightmare, VK 168, Lycan)
Simply as that.

[indigo knot]

Ask anyone who has spammed Jag quite a bit....he will tell what its avg rolls are effectively

@mental pasture E100 is solid tank and so is Lycan and in no shape or form will someone have fun in Vk168 or Lycan in random battles in general
tanks can be competitive and fun at the same time
Like Sheridan,T92, ISU152, Su152,E100 are fun but competitive enough to help your team

[distant river]

Average damage means... average damage... It's not less than 800 🤦‍♀️

[uneven narwhal]

Prime example of negative tunnelling, you only notice the bad rolls, not the good

[mental pasture]

I have fun in T28 HTC and tbh it's horrible and much other people also have fun in under-average tanks. I'm sure you also have your favorite under-average tank. @indigo knot

[sharp saddle]

Just RNG, damage can go as low as 25% from the average the shell has

[versed tide]

Jageroo is a bit team dependent but if you play it second line at the beginning of the game and then use the great hp it has plus the armor and go frontline in the later part you should be fine

[dense yoke]

60 tp needs a nerf.

[viral hollow]

Increase weak spot area in front
Decrease reload for 1 sec
Itll be good imo

[dark pike]

why are you buffing the reload

[dense yoke]

They should nerf the reload, they should nerf the max roll, they should nerf the gun handling or just the gun rotating. So it becomes easier to circle.
Or make the armour beside the lower plate weaker etc.

The tp doesn't deserve what it has. Competing with E100 with damage, having decent speed, having 7 degrees, having a well armoured turret/hull etc.

[viral hollow]

Yes

[versed tide]

The 60tp is under powered

[fallow eagle]

It needs a mobility nerf and a little armor nerf
It doesn't need any gun nerfs...its dispersion is even worse then e100.i agree with to some extent that it should get a dpm nerf,maybe to 2400 max with all provisions and equipment
It's provisions give it better mobility then the tech tree Russian t10 heavies while having similar levels of armor and the tungsten shell pretty much negate the alpha disadvantage it had compared to e100

[uneven narwhal]

Tbh just remove the Super Consumables
It does not make any sense to balance a tank normally then introducing super consumables

[dark pike]

they aren't gonna ever remove super consumables, only nerf them

[versed tide]

It doesn’t even need a nerf it’s a pretty underpowered tank. Most of the people who have it that I talked to really don’t like it.

[half juniper]

You sure lycan the one that can stand up against t8?

?

[stuck acorn]

lol? since when it's underpowered? maybe saying it's broken is little bit too much, but it's definetly overcooked. Great alpha, consumable that can boost it up even more, 40 km/h speed, great armor when used correctly, good pen, decent accuaracy and gun depression. What more would you expect from heavy tank?

Still, if we want to decide if it needs nerf or not, first we need to wait for the charts from 8.4 update. Which we don't even know if we will ever get.

Btw WG when will we finally get T7 charts, 8.2 and 8.3 charts?

[versed tide]

My friend has been ammoracked 6 games in 50 battles. That is enough balance

[full token]

12% of battles. Not bad

[mint haven]

I haven’t been ammoracked once, I’d say just leave the 60TP, the armor is fine, the mobility is fine, the gun is fine, I’d say just remove the super consumables and it’d be good

[mental pasture]

Excuse-me, but when did I state that lycan can stand to a tier8?

[versed tide]

<@&481447501690568709> free nitro scam. Thanks

[gleaming apex]

Junaid Karim#2512 was banned

[delicate moth]

Discond

[leaden flare]

Ouh a quick one

[sudden path]

Bruh run the module health provision if ammo racks are that much of an issue
Also when 60tp spam is high rn, there are more opportunities to face higher caliber guns
Basically getting ammoracked is not a balancing factor of the tank any more than the is7s ammo rack
The tank has op armor, a massive gun that isnt awful accuracy, and good mobility. Add in tungsten and its op

[versed tide]

I’ve heard the accuracy is bad

[minor minnow]

It’s about the same as the E100’s

[fallow eagle]

Actually worse

[twin egret]

Seethe and Cope, Tank's balanced.

[halcyon walrus]

Wargaming can you please add a skill based matchmaking to the lobbies? This is just unfair. My whole team was a bunch of new players against experienced players. I have had 16 losses in a row because of this. -w-

[nimble zodiac]

We like to call it "Rating Battles"

[uneven narwhal]

Ammorack ≠ Balancing Factor

[spring marten]

pls add more armour to the 60tp so can you balance it whit armour?

[shut turret]

Wargaming, PLEASE create a server that serves in latin america, because the ping here is 190 or more, this in good condition, most of the time you need to use 4g or stop playing to not suffer anymore. I'm just waiting for another game (tank with......) that runs much better on the server without any crashes, this in beta yet.

[twin egret]

Lol ^

[uneven narwhal]

Mate if your in 2021 tryna play multiplayer games using 3g then IDEK what to say lol

[round sundial]

It's maybe not crazy broken like certain other tanks, but when you compare it to the E100, it is better in about every way. E100 is only better in defending a sidescraping position and having 960 dmg HE, but not by much, as it still can't shoot from the sidescrape without getting shot back.. Perfect example of powercreep.

[uneven narwhal]

Tank is okay
Consumable is not
#RemoveSuperCons

[twin egret]

Latin America is Latin America ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[flat swan]

Ok, I think that the special ability of the Panther tank in the current LTM is overpowered, I'm getting rammed once from full hp[1325], and dying. it's not very fun. Especially when it's happening at the start of every match

[scarlet fjord]

273 AP
but most of my shells went in is the hit skin not accurate?

[elfin marlin]

16 battles in a row.... i have them for 13days in a row. tier 10 with 38%wr players... most of them were dead before they even took a shot. or camping in the back with a maus.

[teal stratus]

nerf TPs all of them

[scarlet fjord]

nerf 60TP too much DPM base
and if you use tungsten shells + adrenaline and rammer you get 3576 DPM with 690 alpha

[uneven narwhal]

The alpha does not change, although blitzhangar shows it to change, it just gives you high roll shots, max roll is still the same

[full token]

its basically higher alpha when you deal more dmg on average

[stuck acorn]

60TP without 2 repairs is nearly unplayable tho. Ammorack gets damaged with nearly every shot, driver also gets knocked out after nearly every shot in driver's hatch

[ornate shuttle]

you're wrong twice, high roll gets actually lowered with tungsten shells
alpha damage is Just the average damage you expect dealing, the tungsten change the rolls from 75% - 125% to 105% - 115%, and so increasing the average damage you do with each shot, and automatically increse the alpha (which is the same thing)

[uneven narwhal]

Increasing the alpha would mean that the ±25% damage variation now applied to 690 alpha instead of the 600
Which means min roll is now 517 and max roll is 863, which is not the case
Tungsten changes the damage variation from 105-125% (applied to original alpha) which makes the min roll 630 but the max rolls stays at 750

But I guess yeah, you can consider the alpha to be increased but with the same max roll cap
But irrelevant of how you see it, alpha damage does not affect module HP, its the module damage that does

[full token]

alpha has always been the same as average damage, because tanks all got +-25%. The average goes up to 690 because its a spread of 630-750. So its both an increase to the average and also a smaller spread about this number

[scarlet fjord]

true but lets say you run multi purpose repairs regular repair kit and tungsten
you still have 690 alpha on occasions which gives you 3k dpm (basically a free adrenaline) and the gear oil thing which makes ur mobility what it shouldn't be not to mention the 7 degrees gun depression and that 500mm turret
it does have down sides but i think that its potentially too good

[stuck acorn]

I also think it's overcooked. Not broken but still little bit too good. For me it would be fine without tungsten shells.

Gear oil would be nice addition if WG would decide to give it to all tanks in the game, same goes for sandbags that are avalibe on swedish heavies, E5's line, 215b's line etc. It would finally somehow break the traditional setup for all tanks (double food + big fuel or 1 food 1 fuel and protective kit if your tank has modules that are easy to damage)

Tungsten shells also could be a nice addition like this, but it would probably break some tanks even more. I don't even want to imagine a smasher or 183 with tungsten shells

[scarlet fjord]

yeah 1 food 1 fuel and 1 gear oil would be amazing mobility
and a 183 with tungsten is begging for disaster i would just replace its adrenaline with tungsten and a direct buff to its already broken (if it hits) firepower

[uneven narwhal]

greater alpha but smaller deviation seems fair enough

[stuck acorn]

I think this game needs more special consumables and provisions, but they should be avalibe for all tanks so we have bigger choice and we can personalize our tanks.

For me they could also make some changes to equipment, because rn we have few useless ones like +4% to armor (they could make that +5-10% for example), vents which for now are giving less than big food lol (they could make it +10-15% to crew mastery instead of 5%), enhanced track, why would you even use that XD (they could remove it completly and replace with something else or just decrease track repair time by 50-70%), improved control, it's also useless because engine accelerator also improves your traverse, but also gives you additional horse power (they could make it around +20% instead of +10 to traverse or make it affect also turret traverse, not only hull)

@limpid nymph wrong channel. Also WG will bring lowe back sooner or later in the shop, so just wait

[limpid nymph]

Developers bring back lowe please I'm waiting for it so I can buyiy

[sudden path]

E5 had the same problems but the 60tp is better than the e5 ever was

[stuck acorn]

yes, i know, but still using tungstens + adrenaline on 60TP is stupiditly risky. Even more risky than using reactive + super speed on E5

[sudden path]

Possibly, but u can run protective kit if it's really that much of an issue
Plus you can use just tungsten without hydrenalene if you really need to feel safe

[quasi axle]

<@&481447501690568709> more free nitro for you

[gleaming apex]

974_Requium#9873 was banned

[dense yoke]

So you are saying that if your friends got ammoracked 12 % of 50 games in 60tp( and your friend is 1 of 1835 players who own the game), and you think that justifies the 60 tp power?

@mint haven
60 tp has very good turret armor, good hull armor, (small lowerplate but wide) decent speed, 330/360 prammo, 600 alpha, and you think it is balanced...

[versed tide]

i dont think it needs changing, until we can see it without the 60tp spam I think we can't gauge its power very well.

[jagged crescent]

I lowkey wish they nerfed the underbelly of the 60tp to something in which 120mm+ guns can overmatch it. That’s one way to deal with the annoying armor profile.

[real bison]

please don’t make +10% armour a thing

[unique scaffold]

It is fine , u should blame the Polish military who designed like that instead of blame WG. WG only follow the blueprints to build it in game

[wicked quest]

It’s entirely fake and wg themselves adjusted it

[unique scaffold]

So if it is fake , then why they put these tanks on the PC and blitz , plus the tank itself is balanced. No need to complain. If you complain, it means your bad to fight with it

[wicked quest]

You do know most tanks on both platforms are fictional or completed by wg themselves right? I have never said I had an issue fighting it anywhere

[unique scaffold]

Are you seriously trying to say that having an opinion about a tank possibly being over performing makes you bad?

[jagged crescent]

Wise

[prisma jetty]

"Oh no, this tank is basically impenetrable hulldown with an rng dependent hatch, a broken consumable that fixes it's wonky alpha, and a provision that gives an almost med-like top speed, even if it doesn't have the best p/w. If you can't fight it, you're just bad lmao"

[quasi axle]

<@&481447501690568709> nitro

[gleaming apex]

Vega D'Coy#1218 has been warned.

[uncut compass]

warned of what??? complaining? is this some kind of tyrannical place where you're not allowed to have an opinion? geesh...

[nimble zodiac]

Depends if you used abbreviated or explicit cursing, did naming and shaming, talked about a subject other than tank balance, etc.

[uneven narwhal]

It sends you a DM, a big red icon on the top left isn't exactly hard to see

[worthy trellis]

how abou adding WT auf E100??

[split minnow]

Can we buff the sta1 for the love of everything we stand for

[unique scaffold]

Worst tank I have ever played...

[safe locust]

a destroyer version of Maus

[cerulean bough]

Yes

[patent vapor]

Great Job WG with the Titan HN. It seems like a decent tank and it's not like the annihilator. Hats off to you all and keep the work up.

[scarlet fjord]

damn you really need to nerf that 60TP hull the weakspots are tiny not to mention the 3 other things which make the tank dumb overcooked
i know you like to place overcooked lines on a silver platter so ppl grind the lines WG but you're overdoing yourselves a little more each time

[orchid grove]

The way it was balanced in test with 560 alpha and no super consumables would honestly be fine

[round sundial]

I'm not too sure about that, because of the comparison to E100. I'm not sure these 2 can even be balanced properly, but right now it will simply trash the E100 even without the consumables.

[versed tide]

If it goes down to 560 alpha and no super consumables it can’t make up for the 80 alpha difference

[leaden flare]

Go to 560 but give it useful HEs instead of the usual 560 HE alpha because 640 or 680 for a 560 gun is just bad

[terse tinsel]

true all 560 alpha guns need he alpha buff . also nerf the prammo alpha on t9 and 10 horis.

[unique scaffold]

when i shoot with fv215b 183 on a track with he why is it grey and i make only 600!! Fix it that its yellow because i cant pen there

[scarlet fjord]

maybe dont shoot at flippin tracks and spaced armor

[drowsy plaza]

@unique scaffold if you play tier X and don’t know what counts as spaced armor. I really don’t know what to say.

[unique scaffold]

An FV4005 has armor above his tracks and i shot him there but it was 600 dmg

[quasi axle]

😂 😂 😂

[dark pike]

so you shot the smallest area possible instead of the giant turret the fv 4005 has?

[full token]

the fv183 isnt that accurate. His reticle couldve been larger than the 4005's turret area

[drowsy plaza]

But claims he aimed at a portion of the hull above the track. Let’s think about that.

[unique scaffold]

I cant pen with he in the front

[drowsy plaza]

The front you say…

[dark pike]

that still makes no sense as to why you would aim at a smaller target instead of the larger one unless you had no shot on the turret to begin with

[drowsy plaza]

I’m still shaking my head.

[full token]

Could be his English isn’t good. Saying he ‘shot the tracks’ can just be his way of saying the shell hit the tracks, not that he aimed right at it

[neon mirage]

Buff the speed or the accuracy of the garbage titan mabe?

[stuck acorn]

it's good lol. don't expect every tank to be overpowered broken sh*t

[radiant thicket]

Atleast WG made a tank thats unique and balance, not broken asf
I really like the armor activated, sounding like this guy in literal anime show switches to serious mode

[scarlet fjord]

it surprises me how the Yoh hasn't been changed yet and to top it off WG adds the current version of a 60TP to the matchmaking

[remote oriole]

Wargaming logic

[hollow warren]

imo Titan is among the bottom list of tech tree heavies. For a tank so slow, slight sub-average gun and requires a sacrifice of 50% health to have nice armor I wish it had more armor and just become a true superheavy

[radiant thicket]

people complain when the tank is not expected to be broken, but complain again if its broken.

And 90% of people wants a literal overpowered tank than the average tank that does a balance job, because they want it to be hack and slash gameplay. Instead, just dont buy it if you dont like it, buy it if you like the new mechanics added and hope for a buff update for this tank.

[neon mirage]

@radiant thicket Is not broken, below average...l am expecting something good,not something that is way worse than tech tree

[wicked quest]

That was how premiums were originally supposed to be so too bad

[scarlet fjord]

people arent willing to spend on more than 1 premium if all premiums are worse than tech trees Wargaming knows this obviously so why not make some of them completely broken or op and on occasion make "cheap deals" on them for a lot of money i can accept that but they started doing it on tanks that they shouldn't be doing it on like 252u's and Celestials etc

[terse tinsel]

the point of premiums should be more credits along with a unique playstyle

[golden turret]

Hm another version of that one guy that had terrible English and complains about really stupid things?

[versed tide]

Our leader milimarin

[unique scaffold]

Buff IS-8 armor pls 😂 😂 😂

[nimble zodiac]

I know what you should do

Get IS-7

[unique scaffold]

I'm at IS-3 💀 💀 💀

[narrow bison]

no the tank is already good

[jagged crescent]

IS8 is good as at is. IS3 def needs something tho. Better movement dispersion perhaps?

[wet prism]

i dont know but the obj 268 gun seem so bad at aiming, I hate it gun so much, the armor is sometime bounced but slow reload and bad aiming

[uneven narwhal]

no

[spiral bough]

If they left the game, good. Saves you the effort of having to report them.

[fallow eagle]

Is2sh needs a buff

[scarlet fjord]

yeah the IS-8 buff beggers are the most hilarious ones to me

[empty nexus]

HOW THE GUN IS INSANELY GOOD, My favorite gun.
Rammer, Shell velocity and Refined gun

[real bison]

actually using rammer while having HEAT as prammo on a TD

cringe

CS on all TDs

@nimble zodiac I require higher
P E N E T R A T I O N N U M B E R S

[nimble zodiac]

If you load CS on ISU-152 you’re nothing to me

[winged barn]

HE pen boi
And the isu isn't exactly a shell spammer, so a faster reload doesn't help all that much

[half sun]

What does the acronym MM stand for?

[uneven narwhal]

matchmaking

[jolly cypress]

i feel like the gun on the titan h-n is a bit underwhelming :/

[nimble zodiac]

Trust me, it’s for the better

@winged barn fair, I hunt heavies because 286mm of pen is surely enough for a medium, gotta fight the heavy meta

[orchid grove]

It kinda is a shell spammer with the super high DPM

[real bison]

simple solution: don’t platoon with people who actively failtoon

always play equal tier platoons

except for 9-10 platoons, they don’t matter

@ancient ridge lol no, you decided to play in a failtoon, you reap the consequences

next time play equal tier yeah?

[uneven narwhal]

-> Failtoons himself
-> I sHoUlD nOt FiGhT tIeR 8s

[full token]

If you use a tier 6 tank in platoon with a tier 7, thats what will happen most often. If you dont like it, take a tank of the same tier. Either get yourself a tier 7 or make your platoonmate use a tier 6

[winged barn]

You have to make sure enemies are targeting you, sou you can't peek as soon as you reload anyway

And when it comes to camping with it, there will hardly be times other than random pokes to shoot at. People tend to back off after losing half of their health.
And the bigger opportunity for HE shell use the better.

[ancient ridge]

Why does it say that it is a suitable matchup then? I am genuinely curious. k

[uneven narwhal]

Because its a suitable matchup, not a good one

[full token]

it allows you to play, but you can see its a bad idea. It only allows it because both teams get such a platoon in these cases, so its somewhat fair for each team although some tier 6s work better against tier 8 than others. Doesnt mean you can keep doing it, especially if you dont like it and you know the solution

[winged barn]

If failtooning made one tank always top tier, that would definitely be abused.
Imagine an annihilator/bromwell toon. The only problem the anni faces is being bottom tier. All you would have to do is find someone willing to be carried and the singular issue that it faces suddenly doesn't matter.

[prisma jetty]

Why would you ever use shell velocity? That’s disgusting

[drowsy plaza]

Maybe he red line camps.

Which is disgusting in its own right.

[sleek vault]

What i want is they removing hidden stats increase over damage to module in tungsten shell. It's just hilarious how easy 60TP ammoracking other with adrenaline+tungsten.

[real bison]

what is the 268’s SV again?

760 with standard AP it seems (according to Armour Inspector)

sorta slow, but it can be compensated with via skill

[hushed walrus]

Nerf smasher

[mental pasture]

In my opinion, Smasher is OP

[nimble zodiac]

We all agree here.

[brave dragon]

It certainly can be, though it struggles sometimes like a kv2 when it is low tier ... drove mine once yesterday, low tier, melting team, first shot missed, second shot must have hit spaced armor ... then got COD by four reds ... c'est la vie.

[real bison]

that experience is more akin to the average 183 game

[mental pasture]

I love to make opinions that are too obvious to disagree

[twin meadow]

Buff type 59! Reload time, speed. Pls, type 59 need more love...

[drowsy plaza]

Type is well balanced for a tier 8 med.

I’d rather buff the lowest performing TT meds before wasting a moment of thought on a premium that used to be OP as heck.

[uneven narwhal]

Give the Cent 1 some love...

[twin meadow]

Well balanced? I don't think so.
The graph could be wrong. Type is an very old one, and not a lot of people playing it.
Mostly the old players play it...
And nowadays, why playing type with all those other pretty damn good medium?
But you're right in one point, there are other priorities actually... Sta, centurion, pershing

[full token]

Since its taking a while for the english news to get posted, ill share this translation from the RU server
The most significant edits in Update 8.5:
⚡ M26 Pershing - improved rate of fire;
⚡ T32 - improved armor penetration with the main and gold projectile;
КВ KV-5 - improved rate of fire and reservation;
⚡ Centurion Mk. I - improving the maximum speed and rate of fire;
⚡ AMX 50-100 - improved booking, reduced mobility;
ИС IS-3 - reduction of information time;
Tiger II - increased strength, deterioration of rate of fire, gun comfort and mobility.

[winged barn]

Lmao
T32 pen buff

Weren't some of us making jokes about what they would buff next on it?

[quasi axle]

Yep
And look what they've done!

[mental pasture]

When the life copies comedy. At first, WG improves the HP, then gives OP consumables and increase eneb more the HP by provisions, and now removes the only weakness of T32

[full token]

It’s 218mm on ap and 265mm on apcr now.
Last thing I expected

[prisma jetty]

So T32 is gonna be a go to T8 heavy now? Great! I love the American heavies

[uneven narwhal]

An update isn't an update without wack balance decisions

[jolly cypress]

imagine h-n failtoon
pain

[rare sleet]

imagine buying h-n

[winged barn]

How to balance shark

Replace it

Seriously though
The t32 is already a defensive god
Why the hell does it need speed and a decent gun to go along with godly armor

[orchid grove]

New tier 8 tournament meta:

5 T32, double M26, you heard it here first folks

Emils are fun and all, but when you need 3 clips to chew through a T32, it’s utility is greatly diminished, especially when those T32s have 265 APCRs which will be able to pen the Emil turret

[full token]

Some more news from RU (translated)
⚡ ** New approach to tank balance **
During this year, we developed and began to apply a new approach to the balance of technology, which resulted in systemic changes at V-VII levels. We evaluated the results of these changes, became convinced of the effectiveness of the approach and decided to use it at VIII-X levels. And so now is the time to share the details and explain how it works.

The essence of the approach is to compare tanks with each other according to specific parameters and change them depending on the gameplay role of each vehicle. At the moment we are using the following set of characteristics (so-called benchmarks):

• HP stock;
• security (the minimum area of ​​the tank that a specific projectile can penetrate);
• firepower;
• one-time damage;
• penetration by the main projectile;
• spread;
• information time;
• speed;
• specific power;
• swing speed;
• overview

[remote oriole]

All I read is that they want to apply tier V-VII „balance“ to tier VIII-X shivers

[full token]

You can see what it does in the open test. Working well I guess

[hearty steeple]

I... Am speechless

[winged barn]

Armor buff to the 50 100?
???
Weegee

R u ok

[wicked quest]

Pershing can stomp most 90mms now lol

[nimble zodiac]

Pershing just because the tier 8 Patton

[stuck acorn]

ye my reaction was the same. Amx 50 100 to be different than emil and yoh that are known for their turret armor was meant to not have any at all, but the gun was meant to be better. Meanwhile WG as 50 100 started performing bad decided to give it... turret armor which basically made it copy of yoh/emil but without gun depression and with better gun

facepalm

imo AMX 50 100 should recieve minor gun buff so it's still different than those 2 and it's advantage over them is significant, same as it's disadvantage (armor)

wtf my message was deleted, i'll post balance changes after 3 minutes again

[sharp saddle]

They want to buff the T32 yet again?
It was good and fine even before they gave it the hull armour buff a few updates ago. Now they propose to buff one of the only weaknesses holding back the T32 - its penetration

[hearty steeple]

There are balancing blunders every update then there is American tech tree buffs.

Also buffing tiger 2? Wg? Lol? Yeah the gun will be avg for the tier but way more dpm and more hp to chew through. Now it just powercreeps m4 49 even more

Also new balance charts when wg

[stiff edge]

t32 become tier 8 t29 when

[stuck acorn]

Exact balance changes in 8.5 update:

M26 pershing - reload was decreased from 6.15 (with full provisions and rammer) to 5.05 (dpm went up from 2196 to 2672);

T32 - penetration was buffed from 198 to 218 on standard and from 245 to 268 on premium shell;

KV-5 - reload time was decreased from 11.2 (without eq and provisions) to 9.59 (dpm was increased from 1712 up to 2003), armor was probably buffed on coupolas, but as i don't have tank in garage i can't check where exactly and how much;

Centurion mk.1 - reload was decreased from 5.56 (without provisions and rammer) to 5.08 (dpm went up from 2050 to 2243, top speed was buffed from 40 to 45 km/h;

AMX 50 100 - turret armor was buffed from 90 mm to 230 mm, weight of the tank was increased from 49t to 54t which will decrease p/w ratio from 17,35 to 15,74;

IS-3 - aiming time was decreased from 6.1s to 5.7s (with full provisions, enhanced gun laying drive and vertical stab);

Tiger 2 - HP will be increased from 1700 to 1850, reload time will be buffed from 8.84s to 7.58s (with full provisions, rammer) (dpm will go up from 2104 up to 2454), gun dispersion will be nerfed from 0.277 to 0.31 (with full provisions and refined gun), according to news gun stabilization probably also got nerfed, but as it's hidden stat i can't check it;

P.S. all i can say after that one is - it's... interesting

like why buff T32 even more... it's already borderline overpowered after the hull armor buff... only thing that holds it back is crappy gun, why they want to buff it?

[winged barn]

Pershing buff: seems reasonable, stomping on 90mms isn't all that impressive

Centurion buff: bout time something on it was buffed

Kv5: seems reasonable

Is3: didn't need it but sure

Amx 50 100: loses mobility and gains armor. Really? Another clipper heavy clone? Give it its 4th shell back, the hp pool buffs make this reasonable. Removing some of its mobility though? Stop trying to kill uniqueness

Tiger2: how about an upper plate buff and a lower plate nerf? Not that completely redoing a gun you are trying to do

T32: lol (I can't wait until it finally gets a dpm buff)

So what you are telling me is that the nerf only hurts the amx by nerfing its mobility
Just what it needed

[quasi axle]

What the turret buff looks like

[leaden flare]

The tank is already insanely good
Not like I have over 80% wr in it
Now it has everything but godlike dpm

Why did they go nuts on Pershing and were very careful on cent?

@winged barn oh okay now that makes more sense

[hearty steeple]

These changes just gets better every message. A laugh is just what I needed this afternoon.

Also for Pershing, I have been asking for a dpm buff since forever. Ig I got what I asked for

[full token]

Was the centurion given a buff on the top speed? The RU news seems to say so but it’s just a translation

[winged barn]

Imagine, you could have 90%

Even then, going nuts on the pershing won't even really break it
Also note that those numbers doge gave have rammer+food on the persh but not on the cent

[nimble zodiac]

If the cooldown wasn't still around 3 hours, I'd post a priceless meme

T32's boutta sweat

[stuck acorn]

wait, i'll check

yes, it's top speed was buffed from 40 to 45 km/h

[mental pasture]

Wait, 3 hours? Ah, you're talking about #blitz-memes

[full token]

Ribble too busy now

Seems it’s a lot of work or he should’ve done it already

[remote oriole]

I‘d be surprised if he creates those statistics. Usually you just have a graphic generator that reads the data from the database

[dense oyster]

Why are they making the AMX 50 100 have more armour???
the speed was what made it effective!
are they buffing the hull also?@stuck acorn
because if its just the turret i think that's crazy because its so big it cannot hull down. 😂

seriously WG, AMX 50 100 is a fast heavy autoloader, that's its playstyle
the Somau SM was for players who want the armour, and if you want a autoloader with armour, why not get the Emil 1??????

Crazy WG.....

[stuck acorn]

hull is remaining untouched

[nimble zodiac]

Nice.

[gleaming apex]

Larg1#8949 was banned

[dense oyster]

lol, so the turret is super stronk but the hull is still paper,
the tank cannot hulldown or use gun depp without exposing the massive hull.
lol, WG.....

personally, for the cent, instead of giving it DPM i would have given it unhistorical enhanced HE (90mm of pen). and maybe give the same gun to the Caernarvon( but not the fv301) a DPM and speed buff are good but don't make the tank interesting IMO

[stuck acorn]

When i look at those changes and see those T32 buffs, Tiger 2 Buffs etc. i'm really starting to get curius if anybody, even 1 single person in their balancing team got into press account and played just a few games a tank they want to buff/nerf. This could have change so much. statistics aren't everything. Look at the mauschen. even if it's hot garbage and everyone that plays this game quite a lot knows that it still has second highest wr in T9. On the other hand we have T57 heavy which is a great heavy tank with one of the best guns at T10. Still it have second worst wr among T10 heavies.

My point is: Start playing the game or just hire people that play the game instead of balancing tanks by the bunch of numbers in your stats. They usually may be right, but there are some exceptions which are leading to stupid balance decisions that are ruining this game

ekhm, bunch of T29, T32, Tiger 1/2, E50M buffs

@unique scaffold 183 is actually fine tho. Even if i also think it could get something, it's fine in current state and WG officially said many times that they won't touch it.

[unique scaffold]

@stuck acorn i agree with you and my fv 183 is way to inaccurate. I stand in front of a SU 122 54 and i missed him

[nimble zodiac]

<@&481447501690568709> Wave 2
Good work. Get ready for the next wave.
0:soon™

[gleaming apex]

Larg1#8949 was banned

[quasi axle]

turret is still trash

[dense oyster]

lol, they only buffed the turret ring......
as if people will aim at that......
🤣
they wrecked the tanks speed by giving it a fancy turret ring....
i love the AMX50 100, but at times it was pushing it for the acceleration in some scenarios
now, it wont be able to easily dump and run.....😭

[safe rapids]

It really only works when wiggling the turret up and down so people cannot aim at the easy to pen part. IMO a not needed buff, should have gotten its 4th shell back.

[dense oyster]

personally, it didnt even need a buff. like the E50 that also didnt need a buff.

[twin egret]

He buff lame

[versed tide]

50100 didn’t need changing

[orchid grove]

50 100 just needed his 4th shell back

[placid dawn]

Tbh Tiger 2 was fine as is; 8.5 will make it broken imo.

Pershing buff is welcome, least it's gonna be more loved, same as for the T32.

[median trail]

Why not of taken the ram off skoda then the cent cause now that cent has no ramming whats to go against the panther 2?

[half hornet]

Tiger II should stay as it is

[winged barn]

Tiger 2 should get an upper plate buff and a lower plate nerf. Then it would be just fine while not being complete bs to fight against with poor pen guns

#T32DPMBUFFWHEN

[mental pasture]

T32 change is not welcome. That's the WG's grindset:

Make a balanced tank with proper weakness and pros
Watch newbies struggle at playing the tank
Buff it, even tho the tank was already good enough
Watch veterans complain about the change
Repeat the process from the second step until newbies shut up
Profit

#WeWant183mmOnT32

[hearty steeple]

Meet you in update 8.8 where t32 has 2600 dpm

[winged barn]

base

[unique scaffold]

Never replaced with somua sm

[full token]

The T32 just needs a little extra mobility and some better gun handling

[winged barn]

To go along with the pen

[nimble zodiac]

And the cracked consumables removed 🍉

[leaden flare]

Just put it at T7 already😂

[mental pasture]

Wasn't T32 a tier 1 tank? 🤔

[empty nexus]

Uh, No?

[uneven narwhal]

r/woosh

[upbeat sphinx]

While the Pershing and the cent 1 get some buffs, the poor Sta 1 and the panther 2 stay irrelevant in the mm. Seriously finding s panther 2 outside mad games is almost impossible.
Btw another tank that deserves some love is the t20, it is truly powercreep at tier 7.

[stuck acorn]

[Insert basically every T7 medium except drac] is really powercrept at T7 and should recieve a buff

[upbeat sphinx]

Well no, i would say.
On one hand we have "high" alpha meds with decent turrets such as Leo, T34-1 and T34 100 which are decent. Then Comet is an hulldown beast, panther that despite the Nerf is s capable brawler thanks to the dpm. Chi Ri has a great autoloader.
The remaining meds are the p 43 Ter, which is average but not bad, the VK 30.02 D which is a worst panther but you can skip it, and then the t 20 and t 43, being the latter the only one I have not played yet.
T 20 does have nothing special, and it seems the same for the t 43.

[dark pike]

so t32 is gonna be stronger than the t29 at this rate, it just needs a dpm buff kekw

[stuck acorn]

Not really lol. In current T7 situation nearly every med is undeprowered. The thing that some of them are even worse than others doesn't change the fact that they are still useless

[round sundial]

Tiger 2 buff 😂 Is this a joke or something?

[fallow eagle]

Plz don't
Wg heard the community joking about this last time

[full token]

they dont read this channel. If they do, they arent taking much into consideration from here. They seem to rely more on stats
Or maybe they roll a dice to decide which tanks to buff. Thatd explain the T32 buff

[stuck acorn]

T32 isn't even performing that bad lol. They could buff like VK 45 A or STA 1 instead of that

There is completlt no reason to buff T32

[manic schooner]

I've had the shark since it first came out and since this update I feel like it's been nerfed i can't get a good game to save my life and i get up tiered almost every game don't know why

[distant river]

The T32 was fine before the consumables... before the hp... and before the front plate buff... WG seem to like it 🤷‍♀️

[manic schooner]

Tell me why on the t54e2 I end up against the tier 9 emils and the polish tanks every match now it went from almost op to i can't win to sell my soul at the crossroads it was my favorite American now I'm loosing faith I'm played 50 games and yet to see a tier 7 opponent

[cyan burrow]

omg

[tame plume]

<@&481447501690568709> Naming and shaming

Thank you IRaik

[quick lichen]

Could you not?

[stuck acorn]

Shark is still Op. That sounds like a skill issue for me

[mental pasture]

Wait, but isn't the better armor and much better HP enough?
T32 is already better than T29, the only backlash of the tier 8 is a slightly worse cannon.

Understandable

[dark pike]

wg thinks otherwise

[bold dagger]

yeah i was always pretty sure that WG was using internal tank class divisions for matchmaking. my concern is that MM doesn't care currently

[wide ruin]

The 60TP is very overpowered. The armour is crazy weird also Some plates are stronger then others while if I shoot a pure hesh area with my fv, I know 60TP has no spaced armour but I bounce? since when does HESH bounce?

[uncut gazelle]

In my opinion, no longer providing the performance charts is a huge mistake, as this gives us some indication on what might be done in the future to certain tanks. It is also simply interesting to see what the meta is now and may be in the future. I don't understand the decision...

[frigid elbow]

its a difference between bouncing and not penetrating/inflicting damage

[lusty silo]

we realize chart were useful and important
that's why we try to find an other option

[bold dagger]

hopefully, because having visibility about what is being considered to be under/overperforming was valuable knowledge

some understanding of how certain tank divisions (i.e Dreadnought, Sniper, Cavalry, etc) are performing against each other would be nice to know. and more specifically, what tanks are performing well/poorly in each division

[lusty silo]

MM doesn't consider those roles. We are talking about balancing only.

[bold dagger]

oh, never mind then. on an unrelated note, at the expense of queue times, that approach could possibly deliver more balanced matchmaking results, although matches could be considered less dynamic

[wide ruin]

No it said richoshet

[wind flower]

what's the difference between Sniper and Long support? @lusty silo

[stark jay]

@lusty silo what balancing? will the hammer get a better accuracy? i really hope so because at the moment i could cry by playing this tank:
you get always spotted from a heavy, so you cant do anything and all are sniping YOU instead you snipe THEM!
moreover the rng is very bad (didnt pen a emil2 side)
i really like this game but you have to do something!!
in my opinion WG should balance more the teams and less the tanks

[tough talon]

@lusty silo Can u say more detail about new financial system change? Many players are worrying about it, I understand the new system will help new players lose less credit but how will u do if someone use afk mod and get t10 ez without lose any credit If there is no repair cost?

Furthermore, many vehicles are forgotten like sta1, pantherm10, obviously their performance are under average.

Balance between premium and research vehicles? In Serb’s age, the premium must be weaker than research tanks, are u following with this “rule” ? I don’t know if this is true or not. But I’m wondering about do u use same balance rule to premium and research vehicles?

[uneven narwhal]

The 183 does not need a buff

@tough talon AFK penalty system is already in place, if you dont cross a certain threshold in specified parameters, you dont get any credits nor XP

[gentle fossil]

Just don´t play it. You have 37WR and 1500 dpg on it. That says all. Play some serious tanks.

[frigid elbow]

lol💀

[stark jay]

bro, yes i have very bad stats on it, but if you would play with me, you would know that i am not lost
i know how to play and 2days ago i had 1k avg dmg, because i sold it like you said.
Now i want to improve it
You can look in 3days, i will have better stats on fv

[leaden flare]

It's not supposed to be accurate
FV is fine maybe give it a bit better mobility so you can work around the bad gun a but more but other than that

[nimble zodiac]

If you knew how to play 183 you'd manage at least 2k average damage 🤔

[tawdry hamlet]

t32 sucks

[jagged crescent]

This is interesting ngl

[sour mantle]

this balance patch is gonna be amazing

[full token]

I miss the performance charts 😦
Was nice to get an idea of what was doing well, even if those did/did not get considered for balance changes

[twin fulcrum]

I don't like it. The basis off of which tanks are balanced no longer go through the performance of the tank, and rather are based off of their playstyle. Essentially, balance just got defenestrated. Hence the fact that the AMX 50 100 will have 230 mm of turret armor, the Pershing will be getting >1 second of reload shaved off, the T32 is gaining more pen, the Tiger 2 will get another big buff, etc. I'm scared to see their plans on what's going to happen to tier 10.

[unique scaffold]

We need frontlines

[empty nexus]

Interesting To see how their new balance works out, But I feel it needs to be weighed with both their new Ideas but also Prevent a tank from becoming OP or Very bad

[mental pasture]

What do you mean by divisions? I don't know if suddenly the WoTB server became a HOI4 server, if that's the case, I like city in Middleburg because it's an urban tile, 20% defense bonus is awesome.

Jokes aside, you're right. We must have the right to analyze the charts once again

I didn't know they are using "divisions" now, maybe I'm kinda off the news @brave dragon

[brave dragon]

Division … as in category or group or labeled unit which WG is now using

[unique scaffold]

but it would be very interesting to see such sort of classification being handled by the matchmaker - even if its for just one update to test it out in public so users can provide valuable feedback 🤔

[twilit crystal]

Why are good players being punished with regards to financial systems

[mental pasture]

Could you give me an example of how could the MM considere divisions? I unfortunately didn't understand the concept of those divisions
The only division that I know is a 20 width 7 infantry/2 artillery with engineering company and Artillery support company. The good old classic of HOI4, heheeheh.

[dawn karma]

Quick the players is not performing extremely well on a TigerII, BUFFED IT!....mean while almost 80% of the techtree under performing tanks... "Its fine"

[full token]

They assign a tank a division or role, and then apply stats in the range suitable for that division. So if they had a sniper tank it would have a certain range for accuracy, dpm, penetration, camo etc, and they probably try to adjust stats within those ranges to make it more balanced

[scarlet fjord]

T-34-1 isnt powercrept it in my eyes was literally broken before WG buffed the heavies but that was before annihilators and heavies in general were problematic and also WG buffed a lot of the armor profiles in tier 7 and 8
right now T-34-1 is op for a med but compared to all the tier 7 tanks its average i am ofc including annihilators and smashers
it had this insane pen and alpha and ridiuclous turret and almost light tank camo it was completely cracked back in the days
it still has these features but since everything got buffed around it they dont seem broken anymore

[stuck acorn]

@lusty silo This seems interesting, but i see 2 problems in that. Long support and Sniper is basically same thing and the other thing is scout role. There is no Scout role in this game. It's non existant. Spotting in this game is meaningless because even a slow boxy heavy like a maus can easly spot enemies for himself. Tanks shouldn't be balanced as Scouts, because in this game Lights are more of a faster mediums without armor than actuall spotters.

If you really want this to work, then all tanks except for lights would need to get huge view range nerfs so they would actually need a light to spot for them. (lights could get a dpm nerfs in return to not break the game)

[uneven narwhal]

^
Make heavies blind and reduce view range of meds as well
That way lights actually have a use as a scout since heavies can practically spot for themselves

[unique scaffold]

Buff t9 yoh , maybe make the reload of the base gun 20 seconds , as its the same as t8 yoh which had 22 sec reload ,

[honest dagger]

Nerf 60tp pls

[mental pasture]

Making the heavies be team dependent is the only way to win against the heavy meta. The medium-light TDs are in a struggle, and this struggle must be dealt by a new strategy. If the lights can't fight heavies directly, then their only option is doing a range fight and hit where heavies can't see.

[stuck acorn]

i already said that many times. That's my idea for solving this problem. Only way to balance heavies is making them team dependent. that's all

+I would add a mm rule that both teams can have at most 2 lights and both teams needs to have equal number of lights.

@mental pasture yeah, but problem with your idea is that it wouldn't solve light's problem as still mediums and TD's could do their job

[mental pasture]

@stuck acorn I'm on this party since February of this same year.

It's already one step forward. Better than let the game in it's current state.

[stuck acorn]

Yeah, it's one step forward. i've already posted my thoughts on mediums and TD's too

[remote oriole]

I still oppose these ideas. View range is an extremely powerful tool that can decide entire battles (campers) and I would under no circumstances lay it into the hands of a few selected tanks.

Heavies are currently by far not op enough to compensate for horrible spotting range, as they‘d need to be able to take several shots without having a chance to see the enemy who‘s shooting at them (enemies who likely have high alpha).

I think ‚solving‘ the heavy meta over viewrange will only cause more imbalances and issues than the (rather bearable) heavy meta currently does. (On a side note, we have a lot more balance issues with newly introduced tanks than any one tank class).

[mental pasture]

We, the players from Brazil purpose a Commonwealth for a common interest: view range nerf for heavies.
BHT Party, in other words, Blind Heavy Tanks Party.

Jokes aside, it depends much from heavy to heavy, some heavies don't deserve any nerf as they are totally balanced in their current state, like AMX 50 100, but others simply don't make any sense in having their view range, like Maus, E100 or Vk 100@remote oriole
There are heavies meant to be mobile and MT hunters, it's understandable to let them have good spotting stats, but super heavies should not be able to spot even more agressively due to their armor

[remote oriole]

It‘s not so much about it making sense if they have view range or not, it‘s about allowing them to work relatively independently, because they need to be able to with only six teammates and the common situation of being alone against numerous enemies.

Severe view range nerfs would force these tanks to hide and render them unable to fulfil their roles as heavies in even slightly open terrain. It would truly turn them into nothing short of hitpoint piñatas - armour doesn‘t help you if you constantly get shot at and can‘t shoot back. They will take your hp slowly, but they will take them safely

[quasi axle]

It depends what you define as horrible spotting range

At the very least heavies and tds should have less than 240m viewrange with optics

It's stupid how lights have 300m of viewrange and then heavies only have 20m less

[mental pasture]

240m of max view range is quite bad, but good enough to allow heavies to to their job and let them spot other heavies. Heavies shouldn't be able to spot as like a light but more agressively due to armor factors.
That's the point, LostInSpace

[remote oriole]

This is overlooking the main factor by which the different classes‘ spotting is characterised. View range is as you correctly observed not the main contributor, but the camouflage value. It‘s not like heavies are better spotters than lights.

The reason why it makes sense to balance the classes by camouflage and not by spotting distances is because of the camo drop when shooting, which will decrease the occurrences of people being able to shoot without being spotted (unless they are double-bushing) which is exactly the point I‘m making - being able to spot and shoot without being spotted is an incredibly strong combination

[mental pasture]

I don't think that camouflage will do the job as heavies already can be spotted pretty easy.
For much of them with high HP pools and reliable armor, it's already enough to deal with being spotted. For example, an IS-7 which have a very good armor in post-buff, it's trollish enough to be agressive, spot almost a whole team and go back to a safe cover.

At first, heavies aren't supposed to spot. The camouflage won't change much if their armor can deal with it many times.

Fair enough. It's truth, if you force a hull down heavy to get out of the ridge, it's no longer strong

[quasi axle]

Nerfing camouflage works as well

[remote oriole]

Their armour can only currently deal with it because they can afford to remain in covered positions. Once you force them to leave those positions in order to participate in the battle their armour will be exponentially weaker

[unique scaffold]

I still would love to see a global view range / camo adjustment. The end result would be to reduce view ranges to make the maps “bigger” without actually changing their size. It would make the rolls for lights, mediums, and tank destroyers more relevant

[brave dragon]

Making mediums more relevant would be fantastic. I still think the 3 into 9 equipment slots and medium ammo nerf hurt them too much.

[unique scaffold]

Agreed

[twin egret]

cough where's the Light-Medium wargaming, yoy forgot about the vickers

[flat nova]

INSTEAD of Buffing the T32's 105mm gun WHY NOT just GIVE IT a NEW GUN an Already existing researchable gun on the M103 the 120MM T122 gun or just another 105MM gun. So the buff that the balance management is planning to put on the T32 doesn't affect the T29's 105MM gun.

[leaden flare]

oh hell no the guns the only thing holding that tank back

[dense oyster]

its like instead of buffing the cent1's speed give it a semi-HESH gun that it and Caernarvon share.
then both tanks would give good practice before the tier 9 HESH machines

[formal crescent]

why not buff kv2 reload to 19 seconds and remove 10 mm of AP and prem PEN unstead of killing the tank nerfing the HE?

[distant river]

Why not remove the 152 so it can finally be a balanceable tank

[safe rapids]

Terrible idea, just going to say it now. Effectively kills the point of it being in the game.

[prisma jetty]

Give it the kpf alpha, it may not fix much, but it’ll be better than before

[distant river]

If the point of the tank is to break the game then it shouldn't exist, 640 alpha is unbalanceable at tier 6 let alone 640, so remove the 152, make it a collector and swap in the T150 and wow problem solved.

Only problem is KV2 spammers get butthurt because they can't play their "omg the slot machine gave me 1k dmg while I camp at spawn" tank and I think that's something they fully deserve 🤷‍♀️

[jagged crescent]

Meme funny!

[mental pasture]

_Honourless being based once again. Stop overwhelming KV-2 mains with facts, they can't understand it after all.

[spiral bough]

So balancing tanks according to pre-defined playstyles, rather than the individual characteristics eh?
While it could potentially be a better way of balancing tanks per se, I'm worried that it might end up with a bland gameplay experience...

Basically every tank with a similar role at tier 7 and under has the same armor profile. Honestly gets a bit boring for me. Also explains the sudden influx of newbies at tier X. The lower tiers are just... not exciting.

For example, rumor has it that the AMX 50 100 is getting a maneuverability nerf and a turret armor buff. I would have preferred that they gave it some gun depression and buffed the gun stats, rather than just giving us another copy-and-paste hull-down heavy.

[dense oyster]

I'm a big supporter of unique playstyles for tanks.
In a tech tree line i would prefer to see the same playstyle:

So for the AMX 50 100, it is a tank that relies on its speed and gun, so if i would buff it, i would give it more speed, or better gun stats (but in this case the tank didn't need a buff).

Likewise the T32, is a hulldown heavy, relying on gun and armour, so i think WG did a good job balancing the T32. 👍

Giving the AMX a thick turret ring is pointless, everyone will still aim at the massive hull or turret. 🤔

[quasi axle]

Buffing the t32 is not good it was already fine as is

[jagged crescent]

i can't tell if t8's gonna be better or worse. On one hand, all the bad tanks are getting buffed but the Tiger II was not a bad tank in the first place

[safe rapids]

Just add back the T-150 without messing up the KV. The tank is fine as is, no one has ever complained that it’s been a problem in the game. Sacrificing a fun tank to play for the sake of balance isn’t the way to go. You might say “oh the Anni is fun but it’s so OP” but there’s a difference. The Anni overperforms, but the LV doesn’t. That’s because the Anni is so poorly balanced it’s almost too fun, where it really feels pay too win. The main problem is just the LV-2 doesn’t fit in with the rest of the branch. However it shouldn’t be removed as it’s such an icon of Tier 6 and one of the best free tank you can have fun in. Relegate it to a mini branch, and add the T150 as the primary path to the KV-3. Less newbies will also not complain since now they don’t need to struggle through the KV-2, and instead continue with the KV-1 style playstyle if the T-150 is reintroduced. Sorry I made a lot of typos lol

[gilded aurora]

Why is T54E2, one of the best tier 8 tanks in the game, getting buffed? Looks like they didn't come up with this idea sober...

[quasi axle]

Because, wargaming,

[full token]

Lmao they’re giving the 252U better aim time too. And they’re nerfing the SU101. Who decided on these changes?

Blitzpost for now

[wet wharf]

Where can I find the changes?

[dense oyster]

#373091204038000650 messagehere are some from blitzpost,

[wet wharf]

thx

[mental pasture]

"Hey Ivan, we need to buff tech tree tanks, so the players will get a good impression of us."
"Alright, what about we rework AMX 50 100, making it slower but with a thick turret?"
"Wait... wasn't it supposed to be an agile and unnarmored medium-tank killer?"
"Yes. So what?"
"Impressive, you'll get a raise for this."

[patent vapor]

If someone could kindly explain to me the motivations behind these changes: (Preferably WG)
-SU-130PM: Buff aim time from 2.3 to 1.6
Buff dispersion from 0.35 to 0.34
-Obj 252U: Buff aim time from 3.4 to 3.1
-IS-3: Buff aim time from 3.4 to 3.1
-SU-101: Nerf top speed from 54km/h to 50km/h
Increase weight of tank too
-T54E2: Buff hull traverse from 26 deg/s to 28 deg/s
-AMX 50 100: Weight increase by 4.9 tons
Nerf hull traverse speed from 25 deg/s to 22 deg/s
Buff turret armour from 90mm to 230mm/130mm (130 is the sloped part and 230mm is the turret base)

[uneven narwhal]

Because an update has to have stupid balance changes

[dense oyster]

okay tongue in cheek: 😅
su 130 pm is getting rolled by tanks with HE so it needs to be buffed
obj252, it has a massive LFP, it needs a buff somewhere.
IS-3 needs a slight buff to make it come level with the 252U. (comparing a meta tank with a tech tree...) 🤓
Su101 is the most broken tier 8 TD in the game and needs to be nerfed otherwise it would steam over a T54E2 for example. 😫
T54E2 is one of the most painful tier 8 heavy's to play, it needed a buff. 😈
AMX 50 100, it has such a high skill ceiling, so WG needs to add a thick turret ring, leave the hull armour, and make it slower so it can survive more. 🤪

personally, the AMX rebalancing and the Su101 are just stupid.... i wonder if WG plays these tanks, or just looks at youtubers playing these tanks..... 😒

@mental pasture dont forget the annihilator buff next update. lets give it 300alpha!!! 💩

[mental pasture]

Can't wait for the Smasher buff in 8.8 update 😋

[wet wharf]

Well at least Vk 4502 A and Churchil GC buff makes some sense

[flat nova]

Nah mate. It's easy to buff the Caernarvon, Just give it a 32 POUNDER and that's it.

[dry rivet]

I have to agree with this. But I would also like to add on another note that the way they are balancing the tanks now based on role play rather than stats is also kind of strange. What if two tanks of different roles were to face each other? A heavy shock trooper versus a light cavalry? People will complain that one tank would outperform another tank given a specific case and that one tank is "imbalanced." This isn't balancing all vehicles. It is the heightening of each tank's playstyle strengths and promoting an assumed-but-nonexistent form of teamwork playstyle. The light cavalry would be dependent on the shock troopers to hold the line, and the shock troopers would be at loss if they lose their cavalry, and the cavalry would be vulnerable if there is no one to hold the line. Protruding each tank's playstyle and division---in my opinion---would lead to more difficult and toxic gameplay. Playstyle protrusion of each tank is necessary for the fun of the game, but when taken way too far into the specialization level...that would make it more difficult to carry a match.

[dry rivet]

Another way to put this: You don't want one class or division of tanks to be nearly unkillable, with another class of tanks wayyyy too fast to be killed. Or one class of tanks to be capable of outspotting everyone. Then where's the fun of tanks disappearing and getting respotted? You lose the spotter? You lose all eyes. You lose the shock? No one to hold the line. You lose cavalry? You have no flankers. Snipers in the back can't do anything but rely on their team. You just need to lose one component and the team can collapse like a deck of cards. Balance tanks yes. But balance them so that they have at least some ability to compensate for the team if one "class" or "division" of tanks is eliminated out of battle or not even existent in the specific battle.

[vagrant wadi]

Bruh my dense self actually thought you were being serious.
I still dont get why the SU-101 is being nerfed, its one of the least played TD's at tier 8, and isn't dominating in any way. Its so incredibly weak. They even nerfed the SU-101M a couple updates ago which also didnt deserve it. Why?

[indigo knot]

Pershing buffs needed tho sad no Super Pershing buffs
T32 buffs not needed but OK same for Chrysler but ok
ISU130 buff fine tho most tier 8 TDs need that at this point
Cent1 buff needed
Amx 50 100 buff is so wrong and bad could have gone with gun depression buffs
Kv5 buffs needed
Tiger 2 rebalancing....yeah fine but didn't need any
Su130Pm buffed didn't need any except for HP which should have been universal for tier 8 TDs
Su101...one of the worst and least played tier 8 TD gets nerfed nice
M6Exp, T28 def, Ts5 buffed traverse ok they needed it..... T54E5 Shark buffed traverse(the only bad thing about one of the best tier 8 tank gets buffed nice)
Chieftain T95 buff nice
IS3 , IS5 buff nice but 252U buff like this tank needs anything more come on WG
Tvp vtu wonky buff... tho can't say anything...could have done with gun depression instead or a bit of both in moderation
HoRi T1 HP buff nice
Vk4502 again wrong buff....buff it dpm and gun depression and don't give it armour make it a proper heavium....it won't be viable unless you give tiger 2 level armour or think that it can have different playstyle to other HTs and buff those aspects

Give some love to old tech tree premiums they have been power crept too much now

[dry rivet]

It took you nearly 20 min to type this out -_-

[lunar niche]

Where is Leopard 1 buffs?

[cerulean mason]

Buff the DPM on the AMX 30B. It should be a special tank. It’s not.

[nimble zodiac]

It is 🤨

[graceful jacinth]

#Nerf smasher

[empty nexus]

30B still needs a DPM buff and a small accuracy buff, 50 100 buff was sooooooo stupid, It doesnt even have the gun depression to use the turret armour, and its playstyle is hit and run not whataver they think it is. needed either its 4 shells back with small intraclip buff, maybe an accuracy buff? its so silly the turret buff because why shoot the turret when it has a HUGE hull. - 50 100 basically got nerfed. lost mobility and gained useless turret armour that will never bounce anything unless your opponent is a brainless sack of potatos

[cerulean mason]

AMX 30 B is not special in performance. In fact, it’s the weakest Tier x med, yet a collector? Dumb.

[twin egret]

I don't find it the weakest

[dense yoke]

You want wg to buff a premium tank?
It is basically a leopard 1 with more armor, and less dpm

[dense yoke]

Difference between tech tree, collector/ premium. Is if wg over buffs a tech tank , they can nerf it. But once they over buff or just buff a collector tank/ prem, they will never nerf.
So which is why we should be careful about wanting prems/collect to get buffed

[stuck acorn]

Camo change won't work. And the reason for that being is that a nerf of view range is NOT only about heavies. It's about balancing ALL 4 classes in the game. Main point of these changes are:

• making heavies balanced;
• giving Light tanks actuall role on the battlefield instead of being mediums with different class mark lol;
• giving camouflage and ability of using it some value;
• actually allowing glass cannon TD's to do their job - effective camping;

@dense yoke ofc wg CAN nerf premiums/collectors. They just don't want to do it. And still, the thing that they probably won't nerf an overbuffed premium/collector doesn't make it less useless in current state. It still deserves a buff regardless. It's wargaming's job to not overbuff anything and make it balanced, not ours. Our job is to give them ideas and point out tanks that desperatly need a change and 30b is one of them

[remote oriole]

I understand what you want to achieve, but I firmly believe that it will make the game worse by multiple magnitudes for everyone except campers and lights. Shooting unspotted is not something I would want to easily give to anyone, and it already happens more than too often already

Also, on a conceptional basis, I don‘t want glass cannons to be snipers but instead assassins, I don‘t want lights to focus on spotting because they will either be broken in that regard and useless in any other or just broken overall or useless overall. There is no middle ground because there is no middle ground between being spotted and not being spotted.

I also want to point out that you can already get far in Blitz by using vision mechanics. It‘s not dominant and more something for top notch players (or campers, hello bush my old friend) and I think that‘s a healthy place for any mechanic to be. I don‘t see the need to put more focus on it.

Lastly, heavies are already reasonably balanced by the MM rules. As I said before, the actual current balance issues mostly focus on individual tanks (60TP sends their kind regards) and not a class as a whole, especially after the recent nerfs and buffs

[stuck acorn]

@remote oriole man, in this game we have small maps with only max 2-4 good camping positions. Is it really that hard to blind shot or using knowledge to not pick into dangerous area? It's something that will reward skill and increase average battle time. We already have huge problems with 7:0 2 minute matches happening way to often. That's another positive thing about it. Shooting without being spotted is huge advantage, but to do that you need somebody to spot enemies for you. And here the light tank importance and ability of using your camo to not get detected that easly comes in. Lights obviously need to be good for spotting and bad for shooting, because it's only way to separate them from mediums. That's a point of this class lol. They won't be broken or bad, they will be just unique. They can spot you from way further distance but they still need a team to destroy enemies they spotted and same on the other hand, team can detsroy targets, but they need a light tank to spot for them. Ofc themselves they can also deal damage, but worse than mediums (for me giving them around 2k dpm for sheri, 2.2k for b-c and around 2.3k for vickers is fair enough)

[remote oriole]

I will tell you right here and now that I rather suffer 20 0:7 losses than a single seven minute game that is nothing but a war of attrition between hulldown tanks and invisible campers. You are proposing the least fun combination imaginable to me.

Also, specialising a tank on spotting alone in a team of seven is a risky thing to do, especially if you skew all the other tanks to rely on that tank. You upset the balance of tank classes and push a lot more focus on one class (that doesn‘t even reward you, mind you spotting damage gives you less xp than damage you inflict yourself) and draw a direct dependency to all other classes. This is an unhealthy misbalance

As you correctly pointed out, the maps are small and most tanks are fast, so to make spotting highly influencing you have to use absurd camouflage and view range values to allow scouts to remain unspotted at medium distances (which are like 100-150 metres) in order for them to carry out spotting over a reasonably large area with reasonable safety. If you were to carry that out you‘d only see an enemy light (or camper) behind a bush once you get within proxy spotting distance, and this just promotes sitting back and not taking the risk of being shot at by countless invisible campers while being spotted by some invisible light.

You promote stale camping gameplay

Spotting is not and should not be important enough to design an entire tank class around it, and honestly I‘m glad that WG hasn‘t done that.

[stuck acorn]

Here is 1 missunderstanding. It;s not like light tanks would be only class able to spot anything lol. It would be just best in it's job. If both teams lights are dead there is nothing stoping a medium from going to spot. It will be just way worse in it. Or if only your LT is dead, nothing will stop mediums from trying to find it's position and easly taking it out. For me to make it balanced heavies should be able to spot only things that are really close to them like other heavies on the same flank, so 210 m of vr are enough for them. Mediums could get around 250 and TD's around 230-40, while light tanks could keep their actuall vr maybe except for the vickers. Game won't become a huge camper fest because lights with actuall vr still will be able to spot camping heavies/mediums from the middle of the map, these changes will only make other classes unable to do that. Of course after drastic changes like that some tanks like E25, WZ-120-1G FT, SU-130 PM etc. will need camouflage factor rebalance, but balancing every single tank to fit mechanism is the WG's job, not ours. The game will promote more static gameplay but it's not like it will become huge camping fest where everybody stands near red line and wait for some stupid enemies to pick with 99% of games being a draw lol

[distant river]

"The tank is fine how it is, great dpm and alpha able to one shot tanks coupled with a turret is totally balanced". The problem with the KV2 is its toxic alpha, it's a nightmare to play against because you can literally not poke without taking 400 splash and the possibility of being sent back to the garage instantly. Oh wait, you also have no idea where it will be until it's spotted, so you can't poke anywhere so you have to sit back. Oh wait you can't rush it because 20 seconds later it can easily finish you off and you aren't going to be able to kill it in that time. It's a toxic slot machine that encourages camping for both sides and makes gameplay awful. It's only enjoyed by people who rely on it to think they are good when they get a lucky shot. It doesn't deserve to stay in the game at all.

[drowsy plaza]

The KV-2 should have been dumped into the Collector pile in 5.5 and the T-150 retained. But WG wanted to encourage the muppets that like playing the RNG Wagon, as they said it was too popular to remove.

I’m a very skeptical of this new balance method. Color me unimpressed. BUT even if they wanted to do this, I don’t see why removing the balance charts was done. I mean, if it’s a better balance method, why not be transparent about it…

[stuck acorn]

yeah i also agree KV-2 should have been removed during 5.5, but still there must be something when even WG don't want to remove the tank because it's too popular. I can't even imagine how big would be backslash after decision like this.

Derp guns aren't healthy for the game, everybody knows that, but on the other hand they are really important part of the game that many people really like. Fun factor they give is for many people only reason to play this game. That's why removing derp guns out of the game at this point is not something wg will do. I mean WG made all of them (except smasher) useless anyways with bunch of big nerfs.

For me the best way to deal with derp problem is to remove them from tech tree, turn into collectors and once a year or smth put them in some really hard events to get. Even if all people who have them will keep them, at least there won't be much new players getting them and sooner or later problem will solve itself.

So just kick out 183, kv 2, su 152 and T49 from tech tree and put some other tanks on their place or move some others up a tier.

move m41 bulldog to T8, put T71 DA to T7 as a new tank (same as it's in wot PC), bring back T-150 and implement some super tortoise thingy or change 183 and badger with their status + give some compensation to people who own both of those tanks

@uneven narwhal the thing is - thye won't remove them. They will just turn them into collectibles so you can sell them for gold. They can easly defend from backlash like this by saying that everybody who have them can still play them and even sell for nice gold value.

Also it's not removing a fun factor like they did with lower tiers in 5.5. It will just decrease number of troll guns running around and ruining the game

[uneven narwhal]

Removing those tanks from tech tree would give a massive backlash from the community TBH
KV-2 not so much, but the 183, SU-152 and T49 are extremely popular tanks, and personally, the 152 and T49 are quite fun to play

I'm not sure removing the fun factor, especially in T7 and 8 is the way to go

I'm all for the 183 removal personally, I hate seeing like at least 2 every game but if its a popular tank and the community loves it, nothing much can be done

[stuck acorn]

btw vk 45 not only got 160 on the hull, it also got 250 on the turret now. Even if buff is wrong, at least you will need to load gold on it now

[frosty vault]

Don't give ideas to wg ;-;

[orchid grove]

They don’t necessarily need to be removed, but derp guns should be prohibitively expensive to run. Just make all of the ammo choices for derp guns really expensive premium ammo, and it’s be perfect.

You can still enjoy them for fun every now and again, but players won’t be able to spam them non-stop

That said, some of the derp tanks are not balanced and need some sort of nerfs

[stuck acorn]

Personally i think only smasher out of all derp guns is not balanced.
183 - trash that has been worst performin T10 for like 3 years now
KV-2 - since 6.2 update with HE nerf and smasher release is just useless RNG wagon
T49 - fully dependent on MM. If it's full of paper tanks, then ok, but when it's filled with Tigers, chryslers or other T32s you won't do much
Su-152 - probab;y the best tech tree derp gun rn, but still horrificly inaccurate, pretty slow and really easy to destroy

[mental pasture]

Stop spitting facts as if you were a MG 42 that uses knowledge as ammo

[wanton rain]

E 75 Top gun have a really bad DPM, Worser DPM than STA-1

[drowsy plaza]

@wanton rain so you want to buff a great performing tank?

[sharp saddle]

E75 has been a solid and reliable heavy for a while. I don’t think it needs any changes

[safe rapids]

Now the STA…that could use some changes.

[wanton rain]

@drowsy plaza No the gun just bad tbh. It always Low roll (370) and I know my RNG is bad.
I liked the tank but the gun, I don't like it. It have 400+ alpha more like Maus' gun. The tank it's not all around good the gun just let me down

I don't have any issues to E 75 on close range or brawl, but the gun just disappoints me when on Mid/long range when RNGesus said "No"

[uneven narwhal]

It isn't meant for long range rights anyways

[scarlet fjord]

this seriously seriously sounds like human error and not the E75 having a bad gun

[fallow eagle]

Positioning issue as some might say

[stuck acorn]

Bruh. E75 is one of the greatest T9 tanks. When you get rolled into T8 you are basically in a godmode lol. Why would you buff it even more?

[wanton rain]

I Blamed my RNG for this miss shots and I know I am no brain

And I forgot this is "balance and discussion" I used it as a rant, anyway
STA-1 just need a buff, just a mantlet buff or speed buff. Just forget my dumb E 75 rant.

[rare sleet]

Fv215b needs to be buffed there is almost zero reason anyone should be playing it at this point

[open marlin]

Tru lol

[uneven narwhal]

Remove all Super Consumables and buff it hard
Simple as that TBH

[remote zinc]

Actually its not fair. The OG players should also benefit from new updates. 7 years ago it took months to get tier 10 but now in a week. So i suggest as compensation wargaming should reward OG players.

[unique scaffold]

I don't think much needs to be said

[junior fulcrum]

buffing it wont even change much tbh

[iron lynx]

TVP VTU buff is welcoming, but do they really have to double it's frontal armor??

[uneven narwhal]

Balance reasons

[unique scaffold]

"BaLlEnCE rEaSoNS?" Wg doesn't give a dam about ballencing, T-34-85 was literally known for having good armor. Buffing it to where it was 90-100mm on the front plate (effective) wouldn't break the tank, and if it's ballencing reasons why does the Tier 5 get more armor on the hull?

[willow hawk]

Because…balAnce.

[uneven narwhal]

T-34-85 performs well right now, there is simply no reason to buff it, especially to fulfil historical accuracy

[remote oriole]

There is no misunderstanding. What you just described is literally what I argue against. Just because you want to turn the game into a campy war of attrition with disproportional focus on lights it‘s not a given that 99% of the games will be a draw, but it‘s a given that 99% of the games will be no fun.

Your ‚solutions‘ to the glaring balance issues you wish to create are literally „have mediums rush lights“ which equals suicide yolos and that mediums can still try to spot despite having bad viewrange. You also want heavies to mostly fight close quarts which promotes the frankly annoying face-to-face shot-trading war-of-attrition encounters that take all the speed and diversity out of the game.

I am happy to say that I didn‘t misunderstand you, and that I think your proposals are terrible to the power of Annihilator balance

[unique scaffold]

And there's no reason not to either, you have tanks like the Vk28 which if you buffed the T-34-85 it would have a similar armor profile to it. It's a light tank with more armor then a medium tank designed to have armor. It makes no sense

[obtuse sentinel]

The forum post you are citing is using a very sketchy source. Can you cite any evidence that the T-34-85 armor is actually 60 mm instead of 45? Your source is clearly unreliable and therefore false.

[uneven narwhal]

There's is reason
Why would you want to perform an already decent tank?
Every tank can be made better, does not mean it should be

[wicked quest]

I found a tank encyclopedia article about it however the page article is 7 years old and even having pops up stating there is inaccuracies and is in need of being redone

[mental pasture]

I mean, if it's based on the WTs models I believe so, they are pretty accurate in therms of armor. I don't know any lack on realism in therms of armor values there.

[nimble zodiac]

Unreliable != false

[uneven narwhal]

Found this on Wikipedia as you can see
It is possible that this is not accurate but if it is, then the T-34-85 armor currently is correct since the change of the T-34-85 from the T-34 was an 85mm main gun instead of the 76.2mm

[frigid elbow]

no, because afaik the paper blueprint of the tank had terrible armor, it should stay true to the original, and not get buffed into oblivion like the t62a

[obtuse sentinel]

Game balance > Historical accuracy

[scarlet fjord]

yes

[frigid elbow]

lemme rephrase; close to historical status > three times the armor

[acoustic narwhal]

tons of good rewards, free crates on every Wotb birthday isn't enough?

[narrow remnant]

We need at least a mobility buff for the Titan H-N, please!

[prisma jetty]

No, keep it as is, it’s balanced and that’s good

[drowsy plaza]

The Titan H-N is a well balanced tank that decent players should be able to run around 65% solo.

Any significant buffs and it would be up with the Smasher and Annihilator. The speed is the balance point (and the troll gun)

[broken smelt]

i'm only 4 wins from the titan hn

[dark pike]

imo buffing the amx 50 100 armor or tvp vtu's armor is the wrong buff for these tanks

[safe rapids]

TVP didn’t even need a buff, and the 50 100 needed it’s 4th shell back.

[quasi axle]

tvp did need a buff its pretty trash

[iron lynx]

ya know, if this tvp buff goes through, it will have as much frontal armor as the E50

[nimble zodiac]

And yet it won't be effective at all, remember how it's angled. It's like 170mm or less effectively, E50's remains very strong, basically double the TVP's effective armor

[iron lynx]

hmm true, but I still feel that the tvp vtu is gonna be overbuffed

[nimble zodiac]

It's a buff that will barely help it

[twilit crystal]

^ yeah basically useless

[twin egret]

Who knows

[empty nexus]

I think It will help the VTU to be honest, When you angle the tank it’ll be harder to penetrate. Did the buff the sides, or the whole front only?

[twilit crystal]

Ok not useless. 150 still helps against tier 7s

[versed tide]

200mm turret will be useable too

[digital trellis]

Ay wg could ya buff obj260

[stuck acorn]

obj 260 is fine. You just need to know how to use it

[graceful jacinth]

Plz make annihilator and smasher balance

[uneven narwhal]

WG nerf Yoh when

[empty nexus]

Tortoise needs its cheeks buffed 100%, The tank is piss poor

[grand temple]

Maybe a better armor

[dense yoke]

Might aswell use Jag

[gleaming apex]

Bey#0358 has been warned.

[golden turret]

Obj 260 is faster lower armored IS-7 change my mind

[nimble zodiac]

It’s IS-8’s natural counterpart in tier 10

[frigid elbow]

no, theyre the same tank

IS-7
Thumbnail image
Description
The IS-7 heavy tank, also known by its project name Object 260, is a Soviet tank that began development in 1945. The vehicle existed only in prototype form and was cancelled in favor of the T-10 tank. Wikipedia

[prisma jetty]

260 is the prototype, IS-7 is a different tank

[remote oriole]

The IS-7 itself never made it beyond the prototype stage

[prisma jetty]

260 is still technically an IS-7 prototype

[drowsy plaza]

It’s Blitz. Don’t over think it. Or do you want to have a meeting with the US Annihilator designer too? 🤪

[prisma jetty]

I would like to have a meeting with the Annihilator designer, thank you very much

[nimble zodiac]

Same 🔫

[willow hawk]

It all starts with a T57 Heavy meme…that’s all it takes.

[dense yoke]

Obj 260 is just a different name for IS-7.
Like how T-10, IS-9, and IS-10 are just different interpertion/names for IS-8.

[compact ocean]

Buff smasher

[dull osprey]

agreed, smasher is too weak

[gleaming apex]

Hsn69#5066 has been warned.

Aurocia#8564 has been warned.

ABHILASH_26425#9548 has been warned.

[slim trellis]

Give the ho ri traverse or side armor a slight nerf pls its too strong against tanks with bad dispersion

[safe rapids]

No, afaik it was an earlier design version or phase of the IS-7.

[rare sleet]

Yeah Naw Prototypes are completely different tanks from their final variants Kind of like how XM-1 is not a m1 abrams but just the prototype variant or like russians Obj 432 was just a T-64 prototype variant and not the final tank design.

[haughty palm]

Where's the fun in that?

[upbeat sphinx]

Stupid idea, why Japanese medium don't receive spall liner? It might be a serious improvement for the tech tree.

[nimble zodiac]

Spall liner is just a bad part of the game anyways

[burnt jewel]

Tanks like the grille needed a spall liner.

[nimble zodiac]

Yes but now the point of HE is diminishing. Instead of simply blocking it with the gun or avoiding incoming fire, WG made the tanks braindead. They removed the iconic weakness of the line. It’s bad for the game.

[balmy vortex]

I think the grille need more armor😳

[uneven narwhal]

Grille Rhm and St Emil recieving it was fine but the Waffle had no business recieving it AND the ret cal

[upbeat sphinx]

The waffle should receive an hp nerf, seriously 1600 is more than the tier 8 mediums, it can trade too much with them.

[real bison]

all tier 9 TDs have more HP than tier 8 MTs...

[upbeat sphinx]

It has the same hp as the t95 lol.
They should reduce it to 1500 just as the other TDs, not 1600 for a pz IV hull and a cannon. Considering the equipment, it always runs almost 1700 hp. A normal heavy in tier 8 has 1700-1900hp, it is way too much for what it offers.

[real bison]

cool, T95 has armour, this doesn’t

the thing about having no armour is that people barely have to aim at you to deal any damage

[upbeat sphinx]

I repeat, the t 95 has tonns and tonns of armour, but surprisingly the same hp as a tier 5 hull with a cannon mounted on.
it is unfair, the waffle has already so many advantages and should not be able to trade 1 v 1 against tier 8 so easily tanks to its hp pool.

[real bison]

ah yes a TD shouldn’t be able to trade

cool, the Conway is a Centurion hull, should that be allowed to trade, it has the exact same consumables, and even some armour on the mantlet, oh and HESH which means most tier 8 MTs are gonna take way more damage too

and plus, the WT NEEDS to trade with other tanks, you stay out too long, your Pz IV hull comes to bite you when every shot fired at you pens

[distant river]

The WT really doesn't need to trade with the huge amount of flexibility it has, it's practically a tier 10 at this point it has the gun, mobility, turret and depression to do whatever you want it to.

[stuck acorn]

kick the spall liner out of the game, or just implement it in it's old version. (Back in the days spall liner was equipment, not provision and it lowered the damage taken by your tank when HE didn't penetrate you and prevented it from damaging your modules when you didn't get penned)

It's completly ruining the point of weakness of armor. Spall liner prevents tank from being ruined by HE ammo, but the whole point of tanks with no armor IS to be vulnerable to HE and get ruined by them when played in a wrong way.

For me that's the most toxic special provision out of all.

[frail silo]

"simply blocking it with the gun" i know spall liner is a bad idea for grille line but come on.

[fallow eagle]

Grille is supposed to be no armor so it's not right for it having spall liner
Fv4005 makes sense because it is big but grille must be played carefully and with a lot of attention

[lunar niche]

Watch as WG completly trashes the Grille line and makes them more dependent of the new provisions/consumables to balance them.

[compact ocean]

Need some balancing on the kv3 because its just a slower IS

[compact ocean]

Yes they are good td with ok Armor and can be deadly with their dpm

[frail silo]

i know
i was just commenting on the simply block it with the gun
it is not simple
nor is it consistent
but that is okay lmao

[stuck path]

Buff the bt-7 art. Light tank

[vital basalt]

Its stupid that T30 has 1500hp which is a heavy tank irl while Wt has 1600 with tier 5 medium tank hull lol

[viral needle]

agreed, buff t30 HP to 2100 and move the WT to tier 5

[near wing]

Just replace the wt with the waffentrager e100 😶‍🌫️

[nimble zodiac]

Well I meant simply doing one of the two actions I mentioned after, not just blocking with the gun lol

[dense oyster]

the Wooden mockup of the IS-7 is called the OBJ-260. it looks like the 260 in blitz. (pictured)
the IS7 is the trial tank and is at Kubinka (I really want to visit Kubinka..)

[scarlet fjord]

why are you buffing 252u's Tiger 2's and sharks
while giving tanks like IS-3's mediocre buffs WG

[golden turret]

epicly responds to a two day old message

[nimble zodiac]

252U is getting the same buff as IS-3, so it's mediocre too

It's not broken though, the upper plate is red, that's it really, it still has a big LFP and two decently large cupolas

[vital basalt]

But Is3 is already a meh tank while 252u is broken 👀

[dense oyster]

😁 that's me!. emphasis "EPICALLY"

[scarlet fjord]

are you comparing IS-3 to 252u?

[nimble zodiac]

No I mean the buff they're receiving

Same buff

Both mediocre buffs

[unique scaffold]

I think that the obj.252u is already strong enough.sure the lower plate is weak, but ir also has a very strong pike nose and the sides are also very strong. It dont needs the buff for its overall 280mm of armor

[scarlet fjord]

252u is op the IS-3 isn't your buffing an op tank and then giving the same mediocre buff to a mediocre tank what are you doing?
what did the buff change?

[nimble zodiac]

Both tanks move up the performance ladder, just a tad, since they have slightly more accurate guns in 8.5

Just because two differently performing tanks get the same buff, it doesn't mean nothing changes, they're still tier 8s, and they will have better stats for a tier 8.

[unique scaffold]

252u isn’t OP🤦‍♂️

[winged barn]

It's a very strong tank that doesn't need a buff in the slightest, but then again the t32...

[unique scaffold]

Yeah but it also dont need a buff

[dense yoke]

Different names, different times, same project.

[rare sleet]

Same project, but the individual tanks are different

[unique scaffold]

Wait. Are you guys really complaining about a tiny buff to base aim time?

Well it’s now obvious to me that everything else in the game is perfect if this is what you’re going to resort to complaining about.

[nimble zodiac]

I'm just a bit irritated that because two of the same buffs were applied to different tanks and it was taken differently for each tank

[winged barn]

I'm annoyed that borderline broken tanks are getting buffs

[scarlet fjord]

if u can sidescrape in a pike nosed tank and have more than 300mm armor its op

[unique scaffold]

If you are choosing to engage a tank when it is at its strongest in a defensive position that isn’t a matter of the tank being OP. It’s a matter of you making poor tactical decisions.

[dense oyster]

252U IMO is a good tank in hull down, otherwise the LFP is massive, and if you face hug it, it gets wrecked easily, its a very nice tank but definitely not OP..😎

[nimble zodiac]

252U better be using full GD because those cupolas are 😬

[rare sleet]

I always thought the T54E2 hull traverse sucked, and was the weakness of a very strong tank and now they going to slightly buff it? Lol yes I don't mind.

[dense oyster]

laughs in M46 Patton 74degrees of gun traverse

[little sundial]

So you use it with Improved control. I don't mind but just telling.

[dense oyster]

touché

[sleek plover]

I see WG Buffed the B-C Borrasque for 8.5. Hopefully that means it’s coming this month!!!

[scarlet fjord]

Baseless argument the only time the tank isnt in its strongest is out in the open you can't say that for every tank

[real bison]

funny, all pike nose tanks can do that, they can all get 300mm effective with good angling

[leaden flare]

<@&481447501690568709> free nitro for you guys

[gleaming apex]

Capitao_Teleton [BOPE_]#2228 was banned

[scarlet fjord]

every pike nose tank can get 252u armor while sidescraping?
ok i can tell I'm talking to a wall

[real bison]

do you sidescrape ON the corner or something?

just hide lfp and angle correctly, you can get 300mm effective plates

also, what about other tanks that can achieve 300mm effective? Maus can do it easily, don’t see you complaining about it tho

@hot valve aight, how about the VK100? Thing has more raw armour than 252, and can have better effective armour

[hot valve]

252u is only tier 8 who sidescrapes cuz broken angles lol
@real bisonhe is talking about tier 8 einstein

[scarlet fjord]

mate that thing is slow its armor is easy to deal with if your smart
252u is an all rounder with incredible armor
my argument was that a pike nosed tank shouldn't be able to sidescrape with more armor than non pike nosed tanks its dumb
your giving me irrelevant arguments not related to the point like how maus can do it at tier 10 lol
my initial complaint was WG gave the same buff to IS-3 that they gave to 252u as if it was a balancing idea what did it do
barely affects the IS-3 to begin with in the meta

[dense yoke]

Obj 260 was first phase, and IS-7 was the last phase and the result of the project.

[real bison]

“easy to deal with if you’re smart”

same goes for any tank

why shoot the pike when you can shoot the cupola

why engage the 252U at its strongest

[scarlet fjord]

252u is fast VK 100 isn't doesn't apply to the same extent
252u sidescraping isnt at its strongest its just strong in all situations except out in the open which every tank would be weak in and you have to shoot a 1 cm tall cupola good luck with that

[dense yoke]

Good thing Vk 100 has a big cupola other wise it would have been too wonderful

[versed tide]

252u if you know what you are doing is easy ish to deal with but honestly there isnt much you can do to it side scraping or hulldown. Unless your tank is decently taller than a 252u in a face hug you can't see the cupolas either

[nimble zodiac]

Don't use a facehug argument about a 7v7 game balance

Hull down is good, but honestly that LFP can prevent it from doing it effectively in lots of situations when other tanks can

[scarlet fjord]

facehugging is good for isolated targets its good at that thing but most cases u wont use it ur probably gonna spam hull down and sidescrape with it

[ebon flower]

I think that some destroyers are too op, I am talking about speed.
Idk really which destroyer(russian or german), but it was faster than light tank.

Idk if I am correct, but I think that destroyers should have powerfull cannon and good armour, but it should be slowest tank in the game(mainly used for sniping).

[hearty steeple]

Broken or not, 252u is strong. It doesn't even matter if the buff is tiny or mostly irrelevant. The fact that stronger tanks are being buffed is a very real problem, and a bad one at that. 252u gun is unique if I am not mistaken, which means they specifically buffed the gun. It is the same issue as tiger 2, t32, t54e2 being buffed. They didn't need anything changed. Hell, some of them needed a nerf.

[mossy pollen]

People that think the 252U is balanced or needed the buff are insane. The balancing of a pike nose is that when angled it flattens and becomes easily pennable, and when sidescraping it flattens. This means that when sidescraping and peeking your upper plate should be visible and therefore pennable, which is the case with the IS-7, IS-3, IS-5, etc. but the 252U has such a ridiculous frontal profile the upper plate is impenetrable even when flattened. In a facehug you cannot be touched other than in the cupolas and they're some of the smallest cupolas on any heavy at T8, practically pixels on the screen unless you're monstrously taller than the thing. If you're complaining about the lower plate then maybe you should learn to use some terrain and STOP SHOWING IT because literally do that and suddenly you're straight-up invincible to anything but minor amounts of HE splash damage. The lower plate is the only balancing point the tank has, and it has one of the more accurate 122mms and a higher than average alpha strike. Good players don't give you the lower plate unless forced to or when they decide giving you the lower plate is fine because they've decided to extend to look for a shot or position. If you're giving people your lower plate for free you're not playing the tank right.

[dense yoke]

Regardless if 252u is strong, op or weak. It won't get nerfed nor buffed. Unless alot tanks are out doing it, than there will be a chance of it getting buffed.
@quasi axle oh

[quasi axle]

Sir it's literally getting an aiming time buff

[hearty steeple]

And it was the best performing tier 8 from the last balance charts we got

[leaden flare]

idk not beeing able to deal with a 252u sounds to me like a skill issue

sidescrape all you want wont help you in any way if the enemy just farms your team instead of shooting you
hulldown with that awful gd isnt really that useful and the cupolas are pretty big for russian standards unless in facehug almost every tank can shoot them fairly easy
its frontplate only is strong against tanks on the same level as soon as they are slightly above your armor gets much weaker

i dont get why its getting an aim time buff tho its gun is supposed to be bad
low dpm long aim time fairly high alpha

[violet sonnet]

good to see change in approach.
A heavy category wasnt true for all heavies, highlighting diverse gameplay provided by (like Half- Heavy) and seeing problems in balancing is much appreciated WG balance team
hope you got good people to have chat with and not biased in terms of preferring premiums vs tech tree tanks.

[quasi axle]

weren't you complaining about how watching tournament streams isn't giving everyone 3 free t8 premiums back when rewards for blitzcup weren't announced yet

[drowsy plaza]

@burnt venture I didn’t get it. Because I rarely toon. While I agree the event was badly done and a farce, it’s not really a balance issue per say. More of a WG design issue.

[gleaming apex]

__Synx__ [PURPL] (NA)#0366 has been warned.

[burnt venture]

Completely separate events which have zero affect on the validity of my statement. I mixed up blitz cup and pro tourneys

[quasi axle]

Both events give good high tier tanks to 42% players for minimum effort

[burnt venture]

Last year it was crates with minimal drop chance. This year it's guaranteed. I thought it was going to be like last year so I was disappointed with rewards for the pro tourney. I didn't comment on this event yet lol so idk what ur going on about

[unique scaffold]

Let’s get back to discussing vehicle balance please.

[nimble zodiac]

Alright

Buff T26E4’s upper UFP, and the turret spaced armor

[dense oyster]

or give it more hitpoints, and buff the UFP

[minor minnow]

Or give it a workable gun and buff the ufp

[dense oyster]

it seems the consensus is to buff the UFP, 😎

[thick rover]

Why su101 nerf

[golden turret]

Not really too bad of a nerf. They’re only taking a few degrees off of traverse

<@&481447501690568709> this guy trynna link to a YouTube video on getting “free” nitro thx

[gleaming apex]

𝔉𝔲𝔠𝔞𝔩ˣᴰ#2892 was banned

[drowsy plaza]

While the SU-101 nerf wasn’t big, one really needs to ask WHY was it needed in the first place. It’s not exactly known for being a dominant tank.

[quasi axle]

the heat pen is too good for tier 8 man!

[compact ocean]

KV 3 needs a buff

[nimble zodiac]

It really doesn’t

[dense oyster]

its a good tank, but it is mediocre, however imo it doesn't need a buff

[raw owl]

I think the t7 tank tiger 1 needs armor buff because to t8 the armor is terrible

[nimble zodiac]

Ah yes, base the balance of a tank to the balance of the tank after it

[rare sleet]

Ah yes buff the tiger 1, tiger 1 should be played as a heavium and is one of the best tech tree tier 7s, no buff needed

[sharp saddle]

It’s fine how it is

[round sundial]

Tiger was fine even before the buff imo.. Always had good mobility, great gun and decent turret armour.

[scarlet fjord]

mate everything you just said is none sense we talking about the tank being individually strong not how you can win if you out farm its team faster lol
and its cupolas are BIG? BRO SAID BIG? 😂

[formal rose]

The Durchbruchswagen 2 [DW2] is below the other heavy tanks in its tier, it does not bounce shots of the same tier and in tier 5 it is paper, and occasionally some tier 3 shots if you angle the tank, it does not have mobility to Compensating for its lack of armor and hulldown is difficult since you have no depression (which should be -10) and you move so slowly that before hiding the tank you have already received two hits, you take a lot of damage and between shots you lose a lot of life , since while in 11s you make a shot most of the tanks will have already fired 3 or 4 shots that you will not have been able to avoid because you do not have mobility to avoid them and you do not have enough armor to bounce them and their damage per shot is very little for their great reload time, this tank needs improvement.

[prisma jetty]

Honestly, not that hard to side scrape. The hull here has 100mm effective, the only problem here is the turret, and that’s only where the mantlet isn’t. There is a lower plate, but you can easily hide it with positioning. The reload may be slow, but in tier 4, 160 alpha is quite good. The only think holding it back is mobility which is the main balancing factor, and it’s a breakthrough heavy so it’s mobility shouldn’t be good

Additionally, how can you not hull down with 8 degrees of gd? That’s more than enough for almost all hull down positions lol

[leaden flare]

Yeah if you'd be able to read you would've seen I said compared to russian standards meaning compared to other russian tanks

[scarlet fjord]

its literally not

[leaden flare]

Compare it to is3 and they are big

[nimble zodiac]

The only bigger ones are on IS-6 and that's marginally.
(We're not counting KV-4 and KV-5, they're a different breed)

Also for the small line inaccuracies, they seem to balance out, so the distance could be practically compared. IS-6's line inaccuracy is probably fine under the Riemann sum

[scarlet fjord]

idk why u used IS-3 as a comparison the IS-3 has potentially the strongest turret in tier 8
and it pays for that 1 advantage with all the other stats

[leaden flare]

252u has the same weaknesses except for the upper plate and the weaknesses are bigger
Bad gun handling
Huge lowerplate
Cupolas that are fairly easily hittable in closer combat
Speed is somewhat the same as is 3
And bad gun depression

[scarlet fjord]

252u has more alpha broken hull armor which allows you to not only hull down but also sidescrape with a pike nose design
compatible for brawling due to face hugging and troll side armor
has 6 degrees of gun depression and not 5
oh yes same weaknesses

[ember thunder]

is3 is more maneuverable than 252u or any other variant(except wz 112-2 maybe)

[scarlet fjord]

IS-3 accelerates much faster than Celestial and the Celestial honestly feels kind of sluggish at the acceleration part but it has more top speed than the IS-3 and also that insane reverse speed
IS-3 is mostly faster

[versed tide]

252u is overpreforming and anyone who thinks it is not is just wrong

[winged barn]

The hatches on the 252u are small, yes, but you can autobounce off the roof of it effectively doubling the penetrable area

[distant river]

It's advantage is that it's so stupidly easy to play anyone can do well in it. It doesn't help good players do better, it makes up for bad players mistakes. A nice side armour nerf so it can't bounce shots in the open anywhere near as easily would be the best solution, the turret, upper plates, gun and mobility are all fine

[remote oriole]

„Obj. 252U is not op“

[rare sleet]

Dw2 use to be super op seal clubber dream I remember ah but wargaming did a 5.5 and buffed a lot of pens and such and slowly these low tiers just became irrelevant

[nimble zodiac]

“Well, we did it boys

Seal clubbing is no more”

[fluid topaz]

👽

[scarlet fjord]

and here WG gave it a gun handling buff 😂

[orchid grove]

*aim time

[scarlet fjord]

doesint aim time go into the category of gun handling lol

[toxic nymph]

Gun handling refers to the increase in dispersion caused by movement, hull traverse, and turret traverse

[drowsy plaza]

Arguable.

[scarlet fjord]

you were saying?

[drowsy plaza]

I’d say it’s all the above

[orchid grove]

I usually use the term “gun handling” to refer exclusively to the bloom of the gun because calling it “dispersion” is even more confusing.

I generally prefer not to refer to anything else as “gun handling” because trying to encapsulate bloom, fully aimed dispersion, and aim time into one term is really nebulous, and doesn’t carry any meaning

[scarlet fjord]

idk that confused me more tbh as i always used dispersion or aim time and gun handling for both since i used blitz hangar and tank compare to even learn about the game
in blitz hangar for example you have
dispersion aiming time dispersion factors gun depression aiming arc all these things in 1 category called gun handling

[nimble zodiac]

I guess it wouldn’t hurt to specify, perhaps the term “gun handling” should be used in extremely general references, like a T-62A has better gun handling than the FV215b 183, which works because it’s obvious.

But then again, how obvious it is makes it understood by most, and so it doesn’t often need to be mentioned at all

[drowsy plaza]

TBH. I used Gun Handling generically. If I need to clarify then I do. Most folks know if you talk about the SubPar Pershings bad Gun Handling they know what you mean. If they don’t you point out it has a side job as either a Florist or at OutBack due to the bloom.

[scarlet fjord]

generally most ppl i've met understood it as dispersion factors + aim time + dispersion while fully aimed thats how i understood it too

[burnt venture]

Gun handling: overall combination of gun stats ("good gun handling" means the gun overall is accurate and hits reasonable shots most of the time)

Base dispersion / accuracy(Reduced by Refined Gun): size of the reticle when fully stationary and aimed ("tank is accurate" means base dispersion is low which makes it better at hitting specific weakspots or sniping at distance)

Aim time(Reduced by Gun Laying Drive): time it takes for the tank's reticle to shrink / the speed at which it shrinks ("fast aimtime" means it takes the tank very minimal time from halting movements to fully aiming)

Dispersion multipliers / OTM dispersion / Gun Bloom(Reduced by Vertical Stabilizers): Values that make your gun more inaccurate when traversing the turret, traversing the hull, moving fowards / backwards, moving the gun in general (the lower your dispersion multipliers, the smaller your reticle when your tank is moving and turning)

There are three gun stats that determine gun handling, which is base dispersion, aimtime, and bloom. Basic terminology for the less experienced here.

Some examples:
Grille 15: Very accurate gun with a low aimtime, but terrible gun bloom
121: Below-average accuracy with a super low aimtime, horrible gun bloom
T-62A: Very accurate, low aimtime, low gun bloom
KV-2: Bad accuracy, bad aimtime, bad gun bloom
LT-432: Terrible accuracy, bad aimtime, low gun bloom

Gun handling in easily understandable and simplified terms:
Good accuracy - great at sniping or hitting weakspots when fully aimed
Good aimtime - shoot accurately faster after stopping
Good bloom - better snapshotting ability while moving or turning

[drowsy plaza]

@burnt venture great write up. Thx.

[dense oyster]

Best write up, appreciate it mate!

[scarlet fjord]

i actually didnt know there was a different interpretation of gun handling other than that until now lol

[dry rivet]

riemann sum...reminds me of my old engineering major days

[nimble zodiac]

Yup, I’m right past that subject, going on Mechanical, I figured if people wanted an explanations of what I meant, I could teach the concept to them

Making the Blitz playerbase smarter, one lesson at a time

[dawn karma]

"The game is completely balanced"

• t22 owner

[frail silo]

Face hugging in a 252u is a rookie mistake

[gleaming apex]

Davon_G#8819 has been warned.

[versed tide]

Works well for me

[frail silo]

then whoever you hugged can't aim for sh*t.
the cupolas are a glaring weakspot and during a facehug they are not even hard to hit

[versed tide]

You can’t hit them unless your a decent bit taller than a 252u

[sage folio]

Face hugging a a 252 in a 168 is a easy win

[scarlet fjord]

any face hug situations is better than exposing your lower plate which is half your tanks size

[leaden flare]

no, facehugging a german heavy in a 252u is one of the stupidest things to do

[frail silo]

not, the cupolas are very weak
you don't need to be that much taller to hit them either.
unless the enemy's literally shorter than the 252u
face hugging is not a good idea

@scarlet fjord i disagree, playing medium range while hiding the lower plate is better.

[nimble zodiac]

He said it was better than exposing the lower plate, you disagreed, noting a better way to hide the lower plate

You disagreed that facehugging is better than exposing your lower plate. Do you stand by your disagreement, or would you like to clarify?

[tardy crescent]

Whew... glad i wasnt in that ss 😉

[sharp saddle]

Spart is beating me to it 😆

[unique scaffold]

@unique scaffold read the pinned messages. This isn’t a channel for you to whine about matchmaking.

[unique scaffold]

Like a ninja!

Whatt? Not matchmaking? This is not part from BALANCE???

[unique scaffold]

Your failure to accommodate the random team that you are given is not a balance issue. This channel is for discussing vehicle balance. Not matchmaking.

I highly advise you to not argue this point @unique scaffold . This isn’t a debate. It is me telling you how it is.

[unique scaffold]

Then enter the name of the channel for which it is the subject. Tank Balance not only Balance so as not to create confusion.✌️

[frail silo]

now that you put it like that
yeah that is fair.
but i still stand by the statement that facehugging is a no no.

[drowsy plaza]

Please go read the pinned messages. You will have time.

[gleaming apex]

Demer#8391 was muted

[unique scaffold]

where speed of bullet for polish heavys

[brave dragon]

<@&481447501690568709> nitro

[dense oyster]

https://tank-compare.blitzstars.com/
go to Blitzstars
pick a tank,
on the last line of the first section is the shell velocity speed. (metres per second m/s)
otherwise go to Blitzhanger https://blitzhangar.com/en/tank/60tp

[unique scaffold]

low speed

[sly mauve]

Buff T95. 🥺

[versed tide]

remove t95 hatches

[formal rose]

this is how D.W.2 would look using its depression on a hill. the pz. Kpfw IV: 89mm can penetrate. m7: 92mm can penetrate. lake: 92mm can penetrate. Matilda: 76mm can penetrate. B2: 72mm can penetrate. M5Astuard: 69 can penerate ........ and damage; It is low if you compare it with the pnz 4 which does almost the same damage with less recharge time and 20 more damage does not justify that increase 4s y tiene la misma arma de un pnz 4

[stray pivot]

no

[fallow eagle]

Make t95 faster

[stray pivot]

I would like to say yes, but no. It is slow in every tank game, and by comparing it to IRL statistic in the game it's incredibly fast. afterall the e3 is what i call kinda OP so you better suffer before enjoyment

[dense yoke]

I would rather them doing that to tortoise or just buffing it. It is so weak and slow.

[covert fossil]

its fast reload

[stuck acorn]

The problem isn't with D.W.2 only. Discusing about 1 tank, when whole low tiers are a problem doesn't make any sense. Similarity of all tanks there and braindead vanilla gameplay caused the situation where all you need to work well on low tiers is moving faster than 25 km/h and good gun depression. Everything else is meaningless

Still, i don't play on low tiers much so i won't make my statement about buffing/nerfing individual tanks there

[scarlet fjord]

there's no point its obvious a couple of people are trying to appear as experts here and giving u arguments that make no sense to your argument

@frail siloi said face hugging is better than being out in the open with your lower plate exposed
i didnt ask if medium range hull down was better my G

[frail silo]

my response was mainly against the implication that face hugging in a 252u is a good tactic.
you used face hugging being better than exposing your lowerplate as a way to reinforce that, or so that is what i thought.
sorry for the misunderstanding :P

[dense yoke]

Jagdtiger 😋

[stuck acorn]

tortoise for now needs better hull armor and coupoula size reduced. What's the point of removing coupola while the hull armor can get easy pened anyways. They can't give it better hull with removal of coupola completly tho because it would make it broken and improving hullarmor with this kind of huge hatch is also meaningless

[stiff edge]

ngl wg should make the blitz tort into the pc tort

[full token]

What’s the difference on the pc tort?

[shut turret]

hello everyone, all right? I was thinking here and came up with a question, why doesn't wargaming add the option to choose the 183mm cannon on the "FV4005"

[stiff edge]

fantastic armour, basically highest dpm in the game, decent accuracy

[unique scaffold]

Because Wargaming wisely decided that having the option for up to four 183mm guns in a match would toxic as hell and bad for the game.

[dense yoke]

I know

[shut turret]

Is true

[unique scaffold]

Maybe if they will fix the MM,It would be a good idea to put this on game,so we wouldnt have 4 4005 on a game.

[wicked quest]

He was saying so there wouldn’t be a 183 and 4005 platoon in the same match…

[stuck acorn]

in return tho it has only 20 km/h for way bigger maps. In blitz we can just have traditional tortoise as we have rn, but it really need this armor to bounce, because now playing it is pointless, unless you are mad masochist going for the 183 lol

[orchid grove]

For buffing the tortoise, instead of armor, the first place you should start is just undoing that massive nerf it got way back in the day

[gusty verge]

I don't agree with the new balancing because most tanks have much more than a single playstyle and way to get out damage, especially with TDs. I occasionally snipe in the WT, I also run it on the second line. Sometimes I can use really agressive positions as well, relying on hard cover and teammates so I can peek without getting rushed.

as for what I think actually needs buffed/nerfed at t10?
buffs:
Jageroo (personally the cheeks are too weak especially since it has an easily pennable hatch)
Leo 1 (its gun and mobility aren't enough to compensate for the armor- dpm increase? speed increase?)
121B (all aspects of the tank are outmatched in some way by other similar tanks such as 121, t62a, etc)
nerfs:
60TP (armor and speed just make it too powerful)
Yoh (when the firepower of every other comp tank is decreased and the yoh, which has an already deadly clip, isn't nerfed, problems happen)

I'll add more as I remember them

[fast jay]

I think Action X should be nerfed, at least armour its way to powerful

[stuck acorn]

on jageroo i'd rather get gun handling buff, this tank doesn't need that armor. Leo 1 is for me personally fine and those nerfs are basically obvious. everybody is talking about them since idk when

[gusty verge]

would also work
also wg didn't nerf yoh with all the other heavies so it obviously needs to be said again

[real bison]

the cupola is pretty prominent

[dense oyster]

🙄 me? a MadMan? nooooo i wouldnt do that. i play because i like the painful grinds up the tortoise and AT lines....
definitely not for the 183..

[tardy crescent]

got my fish a new tank, but it didnt know how to drive 😉

[lilac pivot]

.

[hearty steeple]

Since I didn't see anyone else post this here yet.

There are a few interesting trends. Is7 hmmm. 215b hmmm....

[dense oyster]

215b needs a buff, 💯
maybe remove the tank's special consumables👍
give it 200 more hitpoints,🔨
buff its UFP to 180 (giving it 340 effective) 🤏
buff the turret cheeks by 5% (giving them 340mm effective.) 👌
and that should make it more heavy-ish, 🪨

Just remove the Super consumables and provisions and give it concrete stats, 😡

[quasi axle]

I love ❤️ emojis😬

[drowsy plaza]

I think it’s been shown that super consumables are a very poor way of balancing a tank. WG should just admit defeat in that issue and rework to balance tanks properly.

If you want to add variety make more tanks or tank versions available.

[dense oyster]

on the topics of removing Super Consumables.. 😎 💯

Read this Everyone! ⬆️ ⬆️ ⬆️ ⬆️ ⬆️ ⬆️ ⬆️ ⬆️

[real bison]

do not give the lower plate armour only heavy HEAT CS and better can pen

turret cheeks sure, but hell nah for the lower plate

[mossy pollen]

I love how wg gave the heavies all an HP buff when the ATGMs were a thing because ATGMs made heavies irrelevant, but then didn't remove the HP buff when they removed ATGMs leaving us once again in a heavy meta. Mediums are useless and I don't even play them anymore unless I have a birthday and then when I see a heavy get to a flank faster than I can, with more armor and HP than I have, and a bigger gun to deal more damage I continue to question why bother with mediums anymore? They're bad at spotting compared to lights, don't have the sheer speed and reaction-based potential of a light tank, and the lack of pen ever since the universal med pen nerf (which at the time was warranted) hurts them now given how many heavy tanks are sitting around in games because of the HP buff. Nerf heavies and make some space for the mediums and lights already, look at comp and what the lineups consist of. The 215b meta was FUN because it wasn't just "sit in a heavy tank and throw gold at everything" like the IS-4 meta was, and it helped that the 215b actually couldn't do it all, the T-22, Sheridan, and Foch were also vital parts of that meta and the IS-4 still had space in the meta to thrive quite well at times. You can do good balancing, so stop being lazy and pull your sh!t together and nerf heavies to make space for everything else in the game that's not a heavy.

[dense oyster]

me: facepalm noises 🤣
lol, i meant UFP!!! not LFP..... lol 😂

[full token]

They didn’t buff heavy tank HP due to atgms alone. It could’ve been part of the reason but it wasn’t the major reason for it. They just wanted to increase the role of heavies by buffing the Hp because they somehow believed heavies needed it

[real bison]

ATGMs never made heavies irrelevant, in fact heavies were always relevant

[drowsy plaza]

Well since 2.7 or so.

[indigo knot]

Progetto during that meta did make HTs irrelevant
Tho they were only super heavies that were made irrelevant
215B was the heavy that was good enough during that time all thanks to its consumables and somewhat IS4
Missiles made open hull down spot useless.... hull down meds and HTs both were affected....
HP buff was most helpful for super heavies in tier 10

For tier 9 HTs were decent and was overall a pretty balanced tier tho the new tanks added during that time (Standard B, T92 and Vickers Cr) broke that balance...tho I would still say tier 9 is still the most competitive tier

Tier 8 was bad....meds were average at best at that tier even during pre buffed HTs era...now they are bad(all vanilla meds are bad)...only meds that are good are Chimera, Progetto and Def Mk1 which come to my mind now....like an IS heavy can go with 40kmph speed....take the position and have like only 200-300 dpm less while having a punchy alpha and quite some HP advantage compared to meds(I feel sorry for Type 59, T44 and Mod 1....subpar pen value and same Dpm as IS HTs) While tier 8 TDs and LTs have like 900 HP less than HTs of the same tier...this is sad state of tier 8

[indigo knot]

Tho I think HTs should be made like this way that skill floor is low to mid and ceiling is low to mid level as well depending on the type they are and are consistently useful but by no means be like the main tanks with most carry potential
Meds should be the way where skill floor is mid to high skill floor and so is the ceiling (Like if you have good mechanical skills, awareness and tactical oversight of the game meds should be the class able to perform the best in game)
I can't speak for lights never liked playing them much and don't have much experience as well
TDs I find fine for most of the part since they are mainly supposed act as a supporter and sniper role...
Maps also play a role for HT dominance imo....like smaller maps mostly help the HTs...negate their mediocre gun handling against meds and view range issues....meds have less space to get to spots where they can get an angle for HTs and fire them with impunity

[fast jay]

yeah, but I think it should be bigger or something.... it is better then it was but i think nerf sould be anyway

[thick rover]

plz 5A buff ;)

[real bison]

it’s meant to be a Chinese IS-7

[safe rapids]

I'm all for keeping the heavy HP buff, honestly it doesn't bug me. Heavies just need a blanket view range nerf, so lights play a bigger role in spotting. Maybe some small viewrange nerfs for all mediums too.

[golden lava]

who think the JgTig.8,8cm is to op

[dawn karma]

New Challenger has entered the game! (So... your pen is below 350mm? Nope you ain't penning this)

[hearty steeple]

Bobject will likely not have as much armor... Well hopefully

[empty nexus]

Wargaming is decent at balancing T10 tanks So it’s not going to be broken, it might be on first release but it will probably be nerfed.

@wicked quest That’s why I said decent, They make mistakes but overall not bad, decent. The funnier joke is Your profile pic.

[wicked quest]

^funniest joke I’ve ever heard

[dawn karma]

We hold

[leaden flare]

well 340 is doable and since a lot of heavys in blitz get the 370 it could have similar armor except for maybe the lfp

but 268 4 is pretty far in the future so not even really worth talking about yet
might be tested soon but just as kpz 50t tht doesnt mean itll appear untill late next year

[distant river]

It's not worth complaining about anything specific until you actually get the stats when it's released for testing, then you can sure as hell complain but until then the best thing is general pressure on WG to make sure it's not broken

[vital basalt]

you know, 260's armor is nerfed to ground in blitz,Super Conq's gun is more like a russian kind of gun in blitz,Wz 5A's Dpm is bad compared to pc soo yea we can assume its not going to have that armor

[sharp saddle]

this

[wicked quest]

Regardless yes they suck at balancing it’s been heavy meta for a while V4 has just been teased and they have their sights on the T-100 as they said above it’s not fair to judge it as hasn’t even entered testing and what does my pfp have to do with anything?

[thick rover]

ok no doubt about that but what has that got to do with the balance aspect of the tank?

[fallow eagle]

Are these changes incorrect?
I remember is4 had 250mm turret armor on front and fv215b had 120mm of frontal hul armor

[safe rapids]

They were always the values you see currently, just listed incorrectly in the garage until WG corrected it.

[empty nexus]

Your profile pic is a furry, need I say more? You laugh at my statement, I laugh at your PFP.

They don’t suck at balancing, They’re OK at it, and a game always needs stronger tanks and weaker tanks in order to bring Flavor to it. They seem to be changing it to a med Meta, but Meta’s need to change every once in a while, so yes It’s ok that we’ve had a heavy meta, soon it’ll go back to med meta. Of course it’s not fair to judge but people will always find an excuse to complain

[uneven narwhal]

I knew this was the right channel when you need a laugh

[empty nexus]

My pleasure 😂. Personally I will say that I don’t have Much trouble dealing with any tank except a hulldown Yoh. Yoh definetely needs to be nerfed, but that’s just common knowledge.

[jagged crescent]

Considering how tiny the lfp is, does it really need a strong "under belly" too?
Like can't it just be like 40mm so that 122m guns and above can overmatch and etc?

[twilit crystal]

I feel like some are ok like reticle calibration or the autoloader one, super speed is too broken, tungsten shells is frustrating as well

[twin egret]

What other tanks need a nerf besides premiums/ collectors

[twin egret]

I remember when WG was originallly gonna buff the UFP to 300mm in like update 6. something or 7. something

[unique scaffold]

Not the tank has a srtonk u derbelly, most tanks have, it's because of the angles
A 30mm plate at 80-85 degrees is basically unpennable (400+mm) so don't expect changes anytime soon

[scenic stone]

1. 30mm plate at 83⁰ is still only 240mm not "400+"

2. You seem to have forgotten about overmatch and normalization mechanics where AP against that same plate only needs to have more than 160mm of pen to go through.

So yes, 60TP has too much armour on the underbelly and you can't overmatch it which is a bit dumb considering how tiny the LFP is.

[uneven narwhal]

The 2nd calibre rule is often ignored that increases the normalisation
It might seem insignificant but a few degrees can make all the difference which normalisation offers

[prisma jetty]

The main thing you’re seeing there is this almost secondary lower plate that’s at an extreme angle

[distant river]

<@&481447501690568709> free nitro get it fast :)

[gleaming apex]

Jochen#0001 was banned

[empty nexus]

T10 only or? T8 the only one that comes to mind Is Tiger 2, As for T10 I’d say Nerf the Yoh and get rid of the special Consumables for 60TP which is otherwise balanced.

I think 268 V4 Is gonna be a slightly different Obj 263. It’s gun seems to be the same gun the 263 Carries, it may have more alpha But really bad accuracy. I think the superstructure will be similar to the 263’s in strength, and the mobility will be decent.

[dense yoke]

Nah nerf 60 tp armor. Doesn't deserve to have 600 alpha with a strong turret and hull armor

[drowsy plaza]

Or one could aim.

[quasi axle]

I mean
it's a tiny cupola that cannot be reliably hit at all
especially if 60tp gunblocks/wiggles or whatever

[drowsy plaza]

It’s enormous on flat ground. That’s the best it can do hulldown

[compact ocean]

Is the black prince reload too op?

[drowsy plaza]

Only it you sit in front of it.

[real bison]

It carries a 152mm in PC, used to be considered the most op tech tree tank

still is strong in PC tho

[versed tide]

Ah yes lemme aim for 1 min while a 60tp puts 600 damage into me big 🧠

[umbral osprey]

My view on the ferdinand is that it needs a buff of some sort. Feels weak now. Got it a few days ago and the armor stops nothing, the 128mm gun scares no one and its slow as sin. Now I know it wasn't a quick tank irl but the tiger 1 didn't have 178mm of frontal armor irl either. For a TD that is supposed to be defensive and strong it just isn't that

[drowsy plaza]

If it’s aiming at you - why would you sit there. It’s got a slow reload. I mean is it strong yes, but all that really needs to get done is remove the tungsten shells. It was balanced to the weaker side in test - and the stupid consumables just make it balanced on the high side now.

[versed tide]

My point was saying you should just aim better at the cupola is the same as saying that if an is4 is hulldown just shoot the cupola. @drowsy plaza I get that but you can’t just say the 60tp’s turret is nothing if you can just aim at a small cupola

[drowsy plaza]

It’s not even close.

But the biggest aspect is knowing when to play to the strengths of your tank versus the red tank(s)

Good Luck hitting that cupola.

I have not idea what the OP was playing (a clipper of some sort) but unless he was a hulldown Kran - the face off against a 60 isn’t going to go well.

But if say he was a T57 at 114m

It’s a fairly easy shot if you aim. And while you take 600 you can trade him x2 same as a 50B, 1.5x for the Yoh and if it was a med, head on to a 60 is a really bad bad bad idea.

[fluid topaz]

Holy hell the tiger 1 having 178 mm of armor in blitz?? That's almost double it's actual armor of 100mm frontal wtf

[versed tide]

if you want the actual armor profile it's what the 131 has

[fluid topaz]

If I want the actual armor profile I should play War Thunder 😩

[dense yoke]

Oh damn you are right (hulldown posistion)

[nimble zodiac]

Imagine engaging a far away hulldown heavy tank

[dense yoke]

you are right. Should just use HE

[umbral osprey]

@fluid topaz yeah it got a buff, basically made the tiger P the tiger Pointless

[fluid topaz]

Nice

[winged barn]

It's just pointing out how pathetic the just shoot the hatch argument is

Is3 turret bad it has cupolas

Umm no.
The turret is very solid

[rare sleet]

Bro just aim smh the T110e3 frontal armor is so weak man you can easily just HE one of the cupolas(tiny one)

[nimble zodiac]

Wow you're so cool

Posting a completely irrelevant image in balance discussion

[uneven narwhal]

What's new?

[twin egret]

That's almost like Chieftain FV4201/T95 levels but it actually has a weakspot

[feral pine]

Help & support

[calm solstice]

Nie polecam

[drifting nacelle]

Does anyone know which EU time the next streams are gonna stream?

[frail talon]

BC is so getting left behind by other lights its not funny if the T100 gets added in its gonna be so powercrept

[full token]

Check the pinned messages in #903663450251739146

[short thistle]

It has a lot of weaknesses man. If you own one you'll notice them immediately

[dense yoke]

Rather than stating it has " ALOT" weakness and immediately stating afterwards, you won't notice them if you don't own the tank. Why don't you just elaborate, and tell us every single weakness of the 60 tp for us "non-owners of 60 tp"? 😔.

[uneven narwhal]

Ah yes one of the "weaknesses" that take forever to aim on and even if you do, RNG is a factor that has to be ignored

[dense yoke]

Hey, dude. I noticed you have received my reply to your comment. I also noticed you haven't responded. So far 1 disadvantage has been mentioned and that was dispersion. So I am assuming you are getting your reply ready and telling us the rest of the weaknesses of the 60TP.

[short thistle]

I'm going to you my opinion, view, and experience in the 60TP I've been experiencing so far.
I'm not just gonna stick to the cons to prove my points, so I'll also tell you what it's great at and what it's bad at, as well as how I play it. I'm not the best player out there, just an above average player so don't expect to get 60-70% WR because of my advice

Let's talk about the pros:
-The turret, it's a thick and well angled. Your turret is your thickest piece, so use it wisely
-The hull, not too thick (120mm) , but very well angled making the effective armor up to more than 300mm on flat terrain
-The alpha is great sitting at 600, with Tungsten shell you can get the average and DPM up by a lot
-The depression angle is 7 degrees, it has more than the IS-7 and IS-4 so working the terrain is a bit easier and gives you a 500+mm hull
-The DPM sitting at 2400 with calibrated and up to 2558 with gun rammer is great, it even out DPM the IS-7
-The weakspot is literally a tiny bar, a small cupula and the driver's hatch which you can shake it to make it
Now the cons, the problem I've been facing
-You have to choose between Speed, or Durability because as you may know, the ammorack is very fragile and it's literally situated at the front hull so if you want to choose Speed you have to sacrifice the Protection Kit (or sth idk my game isn't in english) and put on the Engine oil, which only gives it a PtW ratio of 15.4 (compare to the IS-7's 18.0). And then you got hit in the ammorack and hooray 30s of reloading, wasting a repair kit
-You have chosen Durability! CONGRATS! Now your tanks climb hills like a Maus and you are gonna get spin!
-The hull, the sloped hull with a mighty 300+mm thickness, but it's super wide and remember when I said you have 120mm thick upperplate? Yea any FV183 standing taller than you is gonna enjoy that delicious target with HESH, like they just need to be above you, they can HESH your upper plate.
The word limit is reached so I'll divide this into 2

[short thistle]

-The mighty side armor! The side is not angled at all, so if you are just a bit over angled it? STRIKE! And did I mention the turret placement? Not at the front, nor the rear, but IN THE MIDDLE! This make poking the corner really difficult cuz you have to expose your front hull more in order to line up the shots, and backing up is a problem because you don't have that PtW ratio like the IS-7, or the near front turret like the IS-4
-The penetration sitting at 258 (271 with calibrated) it's not bad, but it's still lacking. It would not be a cons if it weren't for that godly awful accuracy and RNG this vehicle have, you misses just by a pixel and the bullet hits an area that is 5mm thicker and IT BOUNCED OFF!
-HE damage, why is HE only 680? I mean you already did 600 on AP so would I risk shooting at a slightly yellow area and get that whole 80 bonus damage? I dont think so
-The turret gets HE for 100-300 a lot and I hate it
-RNGesus hates this tank
-The ammorack, IT 👏 GETS 👏 DAMAGED👏 EVERY👏 SINGLE👏 TIME
-You have to choose between DPM (Tungsten shells + Adrenaline) or spare kit (repair kit + Tungsten shell) Personally I'd choose a spare kit
-Shell velo is slow, but it's not like ur a TD or anything
-The consumables cost A LOT. Prepare to lose 10-15k if you don't have 3k damage or so
-Ammorack go BOOM
-Did you know? You can HESH the lower plate in flat ground!
-Also facehug is not an option, cuz you have a WIDE 120mm upper plate, and that stripe on ur turret is literally 70mm thick. So if the enemy is big and tall? Shoot the cupula/HE the stripe. Low down? Hull is easy pen if you have the depression, if not then driver hatch is for you

That's all the pros and cons I can think of right now. I might miss some who knows?
I'm not gonna tell you how to play (for now) because 1) I'm just an average player 2) It's almost midnight and I got work tomorrow 3) Word limit
So maybe next time

[distant river]

Tl,dr:
Accuracy is kinda bad
You have to use repair kits
You aren't as fast as fast heaviums
You can get shot by 183 HESH in one extremely specific scenario frontally
Your side isn't impenetrable
You have to expose like almost every tank to shoot
"Rng"
Balanced HE alpha
"I got HE splashed and it annoyed me"
Ammo rack is kinda weak
Credits
You can't facehug against some tanks

The actual cons of the tank are in italics, as you can see the list isn't very long. At all...

[full token]

258mm pen is normal for heavies. Many of them get that

[winged barn]

Bbbut no 374 heat

[short thistle]

I mean it might be a lil exaggerated, but you missed the turret placement which imo one of the worst thing about it, and it's also W I D E which you have to expose a lot to get a line of fire

[distant river]

The turret placement really isn't a bad thing at all it's pretty much exactly central which allows for both peeking with its great armour profile, sidescraping if you really want to, and hull down easily too. And idk about you but exposing like this (either sidescraping or peeking normally) with 600 alpha is perfectly comfortable to me

[short thistle]

Don't get me wrong, it's not a bad tank. Not at all but as I said, those are the cons imo. I face a lot less problems in the IS-7 compare to this one. This is the battle I just got rn

I like to cut corners and get close and comfy, I dont sidescrape that often. More like peek the corner playstyle

[nimble zodiac]

I’ve never gotten my ammo rack damaged in 60TP, my driver just keeps dying 🤷‍♂️

[prisma jetty]

The crew seems to be the main problem to me in the 60TP

[stuck acorn]

well every tank that has a driver's hatch as a weakspot get's a knocked out driver really often

[nimble zodiac]

Well I'm pretty sure they're hitting the LFP, which I'm sure still hits the driver

[versed tide]

is4 has more dpm @short thistle

[drowsy plaza]

Keep in mind. The majority of the early adopters of any tech tree line are better than average players. A 60% tier X player or greater is going to be a hard target in any tank.

[spice silo]

Dear wargaming,do you realize that with the 50 100 and vk45 buff you’re totally overbuffing those vehicles?
Before you made small buffs and it took ages for the tank to get better and now you do the xomplete opposite which is also bad.
Tvp VTU armor buff is ridiculous so are the buffs for 50 100 and vk 45 that will become stronger than tiger II most likely!
What were you thinking

[compact ocean]

Atleast the German tech tree doesn't sucks now

[versed tide]

50 100 is going to be worse 💀

[dense oyster]

AMX 50 100 and Pantera are getting worse, 😟
the armour buff is nothing and will make the tanks slower, 🐢
** both tanks rely on speed to be effective** so now that they are getting slower, 🐌
they will become more painful.😢
they are my favourite tier8 tanks, and they are effectively getting nerfed away from their playstyle...😭

[compact ocean]

Imagine war gaming actually listened to this feedback about the balancing
But seriously is it necessary to buff the tiger 2 again?

[prisma jetty]

Why of course, it’s the best tank of world war 2 therefore it must be over buffed beyond belief

[dense oyster]

cries in tiger 1

[compact ocean]

Laughs in mass produced t 34

[prisma jetty]

In single tank combat, there is no debate that the Tiger 2 is the best tank

[short thistle]

Did I mention anything about it out DPM the IS-4?

[versed tide]

meh i misread is4 for is7 in your first 60tp message

[fading magnet]

How about regulating the tier 10 premiums. While it is the most balanced tier it’s also the worst with how people with 0 skill or any knowledge of the game are able to get the tier tens. Makes the matches horrible cause they straight out yolo thinking they’ll live ‘cause they spent money. Or they’ll do absolutely nothing

[spice silo]

It wont make a difference for good players,pantera still will be a Very good tank,lol

[fading magnet]

And fix the dam ghost bullets crap getting on my nerves