tank-balance-discussion

[thick rover]

imo out of the 3, I only agree with the view on the 30B, because I think that 140 is ok, not sure about progetto since I don't have it

[languid bridge]

140 is still a good tank

[sudden path]

140 is fine as it is
It is a better design for blitz with it's high brawl ability
Problem is 62a is just so overbuffed that its ofc gonna be better
Bc wg wanted 62a to be better for some reason lol
Prog 65 still has that op reloading mechanic, so it's fine
30b has mobility and turret armor so its pretty good as well
In short they're all at least better than the leo 1

[uneven narwhal]

Legit don't think 140 needs a buff, it's fine as it is

[minor minnow]

Kind of expecting some more medium changes since the IS-7 is projected to get its monstrous buff

[thick rover]

wait 30b is better than Leo

[sudden path]

Yeah
Having turret armor makes a big difference, meaning you can create shots
Leo is dependant on the enemy not being able to hit shots back. You cannot create free shots, you just have to take what the enemy gives you
I prefer turret armor to gun handling tbh, so I think 30b is better

[radiant zodiac]

Leo can bounce some shots idk if it’s rng or just the red outlining between the mantlet and head of the turret

[astral vigil]

"because the tank is bad doesnt mean a good player can do bad with it"
my friend at vietnam

[sudden path]

140 has a great gun, mobility, and decent armor
What more do you want
More gd?

[jagged crescent]

If they buffed the turret roof, I’d be happy. I still love the tank but it’s a little harder to play now with all the American and German mediums.

140 > T62a btw 😎

[drowsy plaza]

8.3 Preview is now up on BlitzHangar. Other than the WZ 120 getting 5 degrees of depression there aren’t a lot of other changes. 50TP Prototype nerfed DPM and Pen from test stats. IS-7 turret side buff, loss of some armor on the turret higher on the 1/4face (temple area for lack of a better word) shell trap weakness added for drivers hatch. E100 turret face armor increase and ranging stadia bar trimmed

IMHO the IS-7 changes will probably offset - but work better against meds. The E 100 is a clear buff (why?).

Better View Range - minor DPM - but buff worse dispersion on turret traverse.

[nimble zodiac]

IS-7 also loses the 30mm optics that tier 2s can bully

[mental pasture]

What kind of deformation is this?

[hearty steeple]

It is becoming L A R G E.

[indigo knot]

I don't think they will be buffed....
there must be some issues on blitzhangar due to the PBR models they are getting
WG also not changes tier 10 tanks during the tournament season

[nimble zodiac]

It's interesting how the ones getting PBR in tier 10 are getting modeled nearer to PC

[dreamy oak]

Well I mean after all they are the same tanks just with slightly adjusted stats etc

[mental haven]

Is7 after model changes in 8.3

[fiery pewter]

omg wow 😱

[minor minnow]

How is the E100 becoming larger a buff? I haven’t looked in depth but let me know, I doubt I’d find anything on my own

[quasi axle]

Balance.

[nimble zodiac]

Why did the IS-7 take a better position in 8.3? xD

[vital basalt]

i think he meant to show the turret of it

[orchid grove]

The big thing that is hard to notice from Blitzhangar, is that if you click the 8.3 change to see the detailed model, you’ll see that 8.3 essentially removed the cheek weak spots on the IS-7. They still exist as these tiny triangles directly next to the mantlet, but are functionally non-existent

[drowsy plaza]

Okay I’m stupid. I viewed those backwards

[sudden path]

Is7 is gonna have a smexy turret now

[quick lichen]

I was going to say this isn’t what the is7 really needs lol

[nimble zodiac]

They made it a bit better hulldown, but gave it decent lines as weakspots to hide

[woven hill]

Please make this happen. No reason why Chrysler K has that trash gun.

[low bison]

Mobility

[orchid grove]

Personally I would’ve just wanted better gun handling so that it would be better suited to its aggressive play style, but I guess WG wants to make it IS-4 version II lol

[mental pasture]

If got fatter

@woven hill Chrysler have a worse gun because it's like a Maus, meant to defend city positions, not to hulldown and advance like a fat medium

[quick lichen]

Is-4 Speedy Boi*

[outer glen]

Is7 looks more angled tho and higher mg position lol
Interesting..

[lethal kraken]

Nerf anni

[winged barn]

compares to broken

Hmm yes, this must be trash

[torpid cloak]

Why did they have to buff 50B armor i bounce more than my maus

[quasi axle]

they did not buff 50b armor.

[nimble zodiac]

T-2020 in a nutshell ._.

[winged barn]

Nope. That was a case of comparing it to trash and its somehow worse

[unique scaffold]

nerf arl 44 when?

[winged barn]

We don't talk about actually good balance decisions here

[versed tide]

They buffed in 8.1 or smth

[mighty grove]

Hi

[uneven narwhal]

Noope, they just changed the armor highlighting exaggerating the red spots on the 50B turret
The server model is still the same

[sudden path]

Yeah well it has nice mobility and great armor so its gun balances it out

[quasi axle]

Balance at t8? What's that?

[nimble zodiac]

:|

[scarlet fjord]

lmao the thing i was asking for a long time finally came they are making my IS-7 cracked again
you have my full support WG

[winged barn]

All it needs is a better power/weight, a faster hull traverse speed, and 374 heat and then we have the "new" meta that weegee wants

[scarlet fjord]

they brought back the ridiculous side armor buffed the frontal pike and fixed the weakspot on the turret which u could HE with 150mm guns for 900+ and also buffed the armor overall on the turret this is increadible buffs this tank will be meta

i hate tanks with 374 HEAT its so boring and i literally just hate that type of meta where u have TD level pen on heavies its literally dumb they could of buffed other things on the IS-7 to make it meta and literally somewhat more fun
like giving it a gun of a proper heavium like accuracy like the IS-8 does and some power to weight and traverse like you said but having potentially op side armor and amazing overall armor in general isnt a boring buff so to speak for me personally at least i love bouncing shells

[somber stirrup]

Why does chi to always go up against tier 7s and 6

[storm swift]

because the matchmaking hates you then

[somber stirrup]

Chi to should only go up against tier 5 and 6

[prisma jetty]

It’s a tier 6, it’ll get the normal +1/-1 mm. Now, back to actual balance discussion and how the more fun Soviet heavy is becoming better

[rocky jolt]

I play from 8 am to 5 pm PT mostly and recently 90% of battles are lopsided 7-0. Anyone else seeing this?

[last shadow]

Welcome to wotb
Either it's a 7-0 or a 0-7

[teal palm]

Like literally the balancing thing about the Chrysler is the very meh gun, give it a better gun and it will just become ridiculous.

[icy flax]

thats literally not true

[jagged crescent]

Skill issue

[golden turret]

ok could the Leo 1 get a buff? i feel like its been powercrept really hard. Maybe DPM buff or speed buff? im fine with everything else but i'd like either a DPM buff or speed buff.

[teal palm]

I’m not even going to try to understand that

[winged barn]

Yes. Dpm buff the leo 1.
Give me a 2 second reload

[thick rover]

Yes plz

[fallow eagle]

Tvp but the clip reload time becomes the intraclip reload?
Yes please

[honest dagger]

Buff stb pls its no longer king of t10 tech med, and the grind is still meh

[thick rover]

After STB buff: "buff Patton plz, stb makes it irrelevant"
After Patton buff: "buff stb plz, Patton makes it irrelevant"

[nimble zodiac]

Did you know, in order to be balanced, it should not be the king of any tank type? 😳

[honest dagger]

Apart from hulldown capabilites it mostly has nothing
Dpm is meh
Accuracy is meh
Acceleration is kinda bad
Max speed is ok, faster than something like a 62a, but thats all
Of course hulldown capability is its main strength, but yeah if your not on a ridge, prepare to get rekted like nothing
@nimble zodiac what balance, e50m is now a jdnehdheb cruise missile that goes 60 kph and heavier than an is-4, while still having standard stat like most other meds like dpm, accuracy. Especially considering the grind isnt bad at all.
Stb used to be king bc hulldown, but now e50m can do it pretty much almost as good (ofc not exactly the same) while being able to brawl, agreesive fighting, everything else much better. Thats why stb’s reputation being shrinked

[nimble zodiac]

Hey, I said in order to be balanced, not that WG has balanced tier 10 with 8.3 👀

Also you just praised STB-1 as the king of tier 10 meds in 8.2, then suddenly back up pretty far to shrink its reputation

[whole path]

Why not just give everytank the same stats no more complaints

[narrow bison]

just git gud. stb still among the best mediums on tier 10

[nimble zodiac]

The route to take shouldn’t be to buff STB-1 though, just nerf E 50 M a bit. If we keep buffing each of them up, powercreep sets in

[honest dagger]

yea i agree e50m kinda over-buffed a bit. nerf some dpm and mobility and everything should be fine

[narrow bison]

you didnt point out on the low profile on stb which e50m and m48 doesnt have

[empty nexus]

E50m buff was too much tbh, shouldve been smaller, and maybe even lowered the accuracy and mobility of the tank cuz it has good armour, Good gun, good Mobility

[uneven narwhal]

50M didn't even need a buff
It already had an excellent gun, good mobility, and good armor

[honest dagger]

E50m pre-buff already been one of the best mt 10 😞

[sharp saddle]

It didn’t need it, but evidently they wanted to push it further to make it shine more in its medium-heavy role in conjunction with nerfs to E5, FV and such

[honest dagger]

yeah i guess they wanna make it the pinnacle of t10 mt like an e5 in hts

[unique scaffold]

Can we talk about dpm buff for Charioteer.

[minor minnow]

Why?

Assuming you run double food, and calibrated you have 2.3k dpm, on a mobile platform with a turret. If you use hesh with the same setup you have just shy of 3k. Considering the punch it packs I’d say that’s okay.

I haven’t played it, though. I’ve considered getting the line after 60TP, but from an outside perspective it doesn’t seem that bad if played like a second line medium or mobile sniper

[autumn zodiac]

I would love one, they killed it beyond any necessary means of defending itself, Between the accuracy and virtually useless HESH

[remote oriole]

To be honest it kind of fits the line in terms of effectiveness

[quasi axle]

the hesh dpm is worse than the AP dpm on the stock gun 🤣

[unique scaffold]

I also changed back to the stock gun now, caus the top gun sucks

[real bison]

personally use it as a super sniper, stay away from the main action, and hit MTs

[covert marlin]

pls add a message to tutorial in big bold letters right in the middle of the screen saying something along the lines of "MAIN OBJECTIVE: SHOOT BUT DONT GET SHOT"

[last shadow]

You have to be more specific
"Shoot at the enemy..."
Otherwise yeah...

[gleaming apex]

LPMJAJA123#8398 was banned

[terse tinsel]

pls give m7 yoh more accuracy. it dosent have near as good as t29 armor nor consumables.all it has is mediocre p/w. ok then how about a tiger 1, its worse that it in almost every stat but power to weight and alpha. and apcr pen

[nimble zodiac]

Don't ask for a buff using an apex tank as a comparison

[winged barn]

We couldn't possibly nerf anything

[nimble zodiac]

Nerfing? Only heretics do that nowadays

[unique scaffold]

pudel needs buff

[astral vigil]

i think re'balance 215B, tank pretty bad now as its used to, give it more upper plate mm+ ?

[gleaming apex]

Error 65#4750 has been warned.

[gleaming apex]

Blingtand (MS-1!)#3325 was banned

[twin egret]

The heck

[rare sleet]

Mmm breh Leopard pta 6 degrees of gun depression really just making it awkward to play for me especially because the tank is tall not low like russian meds. a 1-2 degree gun depression buff would be nice

[terse tinsel]

true leo pta 8 degrees when

[frosty ravine]

Teams are too powerful for most, I think that should be balanced closely by stats And I'm unable to get any xp in t8

[frosty ravine]

Teams are crap rn

[nimble zodiac]

Yes, so what tank stats would you like to see changed?

I'm sure VK 168 might be frustrating to play against, because you're not supposed to fight it alone, it's made like an E100, to out-trade and win a 1v1 from distances.

[frosty ravine]

Armor cause some cannot pen anything without premium shells. And player stats (Battles Experience etc) should be near the same. vk 168 needs nerf as well.

[quasi axle]

168 nerf wheeze

[last shadow]

Nerfing? Only heretics do that nowadays
-ChickenMan7777 2021
Instead we should just buff any other tank
So that the VK isn't OP anymore/s

[nimble zodiac]

Oh no my comedic narrative is starting to influence

[prisma jetty]

Because it was too powerful.

[remote oriole]

Maus: gets nerfed once after only buffs or no changes for literally over seven years straight
You:

[winged barn]

You forgor /s

[nimble zodiac]

Normies use /s

[twin egret]

What is a normie

[nimble zodiac]

A normal user/person
Not unique in their procedures

[twin egret]

That sounds okay? Idk, maybe there's more to the definition

[nimble zodiac]

You could call it someone who follows the mainstream 🤷‍♂️

[rare sleet]

this is not balans discussion we should discuss that why on earth leopard pta only has 6 degrees of gun depression

[twin egret]

Maybe bec of turret idk, it is a prototype

[drowsy plaza]

PTA needs to position to account for that, and it’s non existent armor.

[sharp saddle]

<@&481447501690568709> again

[gleaming apex]

Night wolf#7156 was banned

[open kayak]

nerf t28 front armor or dpm or else its too hard to pen it

[leaden flare]

What kind of medication do you have to be on to think that

[uneven narwhal]

The one WG sometimes takes while balancing tanks

Jk lol

[empty nexus]

The thing already sucks, I don’t understand how some people want things to be nerfed if they can’t play the game or struggle to counter a tank

[thick rover]

HHAHA

[winged barn]

Nerf the armor a bit? Sure

But give it an actually useable hp pool to compensate
A 3 shot assault td is no longer an assault td

[versed tide]

T28 has a 3 shot gun?

[sharp saddle]

He’s referencing the HP pool of the tank.
I always thought it was odd it had such a low HP pool compared to other assault tank destroyers at the same tier. But the tank is in a better place now

[orchid grove]

Honestly, I don’t really want T28 touched, I like it where it is now.

As a TD, it’s primary job should still be to snipe, especially with its high DPM, reasonable accuracy, low profile, and good camo rating. You can use it to push, but the low HP pool keeps that as more of a secondary role

[twin egret]

Which T28

[quasi axle]

Sniping 🤢

[remote oriole]

<@&481447501690568709>

[gleaming apex]

LC_Mightyimperfectjolly#9999 was banned

[winged barn]

Ah yes
Be an isu but worse at its job

The thing is...
It can't be aggressive because it is a 3 shot

It can't do the jobs the tank obviously wants to do. It needs rebalancing

[orchid grove]

It’s a worse sniper, but it gains more flexibility when it needs to be more aggressive

It’s a 3 shot, but penning those 3 shots on it can be fairly difficult now. And as a sniper it’s not that much worse; the DPM is about the same, but you get more accuracy and substantially more camo.

Sure it’s not the best aggressive tank because of the HP pool, especially when compared with heavies, but when forced into it, unlike other TDs, it won’t get completely vaporized

[sudden granite]

<@&481447501690568709> sorry to bother but we have a free nitro messiah again

[versed tide]

Which t28 smh

[golden turret]

Turret less T28

[jagged crescent]

since the armor buff, it's not bad. But it's still not good.

[exotic goblet]

what have i just read, my eyes

[sharp saddle]

first time?

[uneven narwhal]

Godzilla had a stroke trying to read this and died
Hang on Imma join him real quick

[thick rover]

Actually entertaining

[unique scaffold]

“Not a clown the whole circus” - pantouflee

[quick lichen]

I answer on this message. I’d like to know what you mean by “no game balance”

[thick rover]

blocked

[novel nimbus]

wat

[nimble zodiac]

Despite clear hate for this game, deep down, he loves it 🤔

But then again he blocks everyone who pushes back, so

[uneven narwhal]

I'm surprised you even had an answer to such a message

[drowsy plaza]

Can you reply in English not Bot? I don’t have a Bot to English translator available

[sharp saddle]

To be honest I am not sure why he still plays if he is so unhappy with the game constantly ranting and complaining

[twin lake]

yes plw block yeas many

[warm rampart]

english please (block me)

[jagged crescent]

https://tenor.com/view/mokey-puppet-monkey-sidekick-monkey-angry-gif-14891449

[gleaming apex]

milanmrlian#1465 was muted

[twin egret]

Lol

[unique scaffold]

How do I play proggeto like a clipper or single shot ?

[terse tinsel]

both depending on the situation, that s the autoreloaders big advantage

[full token]

Shoot all the shells you have, whenever you can. Sometimes if close to reloading another shell, it can be better to wait. Sometimes it might be better to wait till all 3 shells are loaded so you can have the most damage done before you get stuck on the long reload. But once you empty a clip and still have opportunities to shoot, it’s better to fire single shot

[muted oracle]

I go single shot until something is inside death by clip range. It lets you maintain the threat of autoloader burst until it’s time to deliver.

[unique scaffold]

Su 152 needs a 11 grenades clip.the dpg is 640 and the reloading time of the clip be 20 seconds

[reef crane]

No, it needs a 100 round clip with a 0.1 second reload and the clip reload should be 3 seconds

[full token]

Why bother giving it a clip reload. 100 rounds will kill everything anyway

[remote oriole]

Because all tanks start empty, so it needs to reload the clip first

[full token]

Typed that wrong. Meant to say it doesn’t need a clip at all

[sudden path]

Then again the w 120 1g ft has around the same effectiveness of the armor profile...
Hm which would I rather have

[mental pasture]

Between those two (T28 and Wz120 1G ft), I'd rather the ISU.
Less everything, but more DPM, alpha and penetration.

[edgy crag]

between t28 1201gft and the isu i'd rather take the t54e2

[quasi axle]

given choice between two tanks
Picks another one

[scarlet fjord]

remove Tortoise Cupola and do one of the following as a secondary buff
either Buff the DPM
or buff the armor
And u have a very fun balanced TD specially since ur trying to fix the heavy meta problem

[golden turret]

Tortoise already has DPM, it just needs more armor

[mental pasture]

I'd love to see Tortoise on the meta. For now, assault TDs are the most capable to take down heavies.

[scarlet fjord]

i think it needs more than 3700 DPM still dont get me wrong 3700 DPM isnt a joke
its 400 alpha though heavies can still harass you easily due to that but it definitely needs an armor rework

[warm rampart]

removing the cupola means a non-historical model. as much as Wargaming isn't historically accurate, they don't pass on models. armor buff would be greatly appreciated

[orchid grove]

If you want to talk about buffing the Tortoise, WG should start with undoing this horrible nerf bat they slammed it with all the way back in 2.5

[hollow ledge]

I remember that awfulness

Before the armor was actually workable and you could get some bounces, now it’s paper

I say bring the armor back to what it used to be and shrink that cupola-turret thing like what they did with the e5 a while back and you might have a solid tank

I can live with the awful mobility they gave it in 2.5 if it had armor

[scarlet fjord]

My IS-8 pens that things hull armor with AP and that's using rammer it's very poor
You can obviously use a wall and Ur gun arc the good old trick but Ur still paper and Ur alpha is too low for that to work nowadays

[nimble zodiac]

IS-8 has IS-4's gun so I'm not too surprised
Maxed anyways...

I'm currently working on a proposal for Tortoise's armor buff

[nimble zodiac]

Alright, so it'll be very weak to premium ammunition, but at least standard shells will have a hard time unless aimed at the very short cupolas or they choose to hit the lower plate

Green is buff to 200mm

[winged barn]

Removing weakspots is bad. It makes it impossible for low pen tanks to counter it unless the rest of the armor is trash, at which point the armor doesn't work at all.

See the turtle mk1.
That tank was tested with frontal immortality, and was then nerfed to a point of having useless armor.

Having weakspots (a hatch) allows low pen tanks (lower tiered vehicles) the at least do something frontally against poorly played tanks, while a well played tank with hidden weakspots allows it to stand up to higher pen (higher tiered) enemies.

I am 100% for weegee to make the tortoise into a badger armor profile with a hatch, as it would allow it to stand up to 10s while also not completely abusing tier 8s.

@nimble zodiac on a tall tank with lots of gun depression-> it completely disappears

My problem is that low pen tanks can do literally nothing
And high pen tanks will still look at the armor as a complete joke

[nimble zodiac]

There's still a substantial cupola, about 252U's size

I am aware of that, I want that to be Tortoise's gimmick :p
Oh and also gun arcing right

Okay, I guess a tier 9 turretless Tiger II is bad xD

Maybe nerf the LFP to around 210mm?

[remote oriole]

I‘d argue that the tank would be fine if you remove just the cupola. But if you want to buff the frontal armour I would highly advise against removing or decreasing the size of the cupola

Unless you want to create a too strong or borderline op or op tank, in which case the combination might just do the trick. That being said, I consider the AT 15 as too strong or borderline op

[versed tide]

remove cupola and give it a slight mobility buff

[twin egret]

Hmm 228mm spaced armour

[nimble zodiac]

LOL no

[dreamy oar]

I hoping the next buff to meds will be increasing the the 90mm guns damage from 225 to 240

[twin egret]

I had a 9 battle winstreak where I took no damage in any of them

[remote oriole]

Of course I cry about my winstreaks. Winning is horrible for dealing damage

[unique scaffold]

What does any of this have to do with tank balance?

[gleaming apex]

Frostizhere#6354 was muted

[unique scaffold]

Nice

[orchid grove]

Well, the armor wasn’t touched; the patch note I posted was the full extent of the nerf. Tortoise has always been fairly paper, but the gun is what makes up for it

[scarlet fjord]

in the past i used the wall trick with its gun arc and if I'm lucky gun depression as well and the second i fire i use its surprisingly good traverse speed to angle my front while hiding me sides with a wall to bounce even jagaroo's but nowadays people seem to butter through it much more easily its because the meta has changed and everyone is running calibrated shells due to the heavy meta recently causing people to butter through you with standard rounds let alone gold ones in certain situations

[hollow ledge]

@orchid grove it wasn’t touched in 2.5 but I’m pretty sure there was a patch at some point that nerfed the armor

[real bison]

this would be absolutely broken on a ridge, a tiny cupola with -10°, and a powerful gun

[nimble zodiac]

Sorry for giving Tortoise a chance against non-tier 10 level prammo

Keep cupola, nerf LFP, boom? All the while the armor buff will stand strong as it should

Badger is a monster when using gun depression, yet happens to be underwhelming?

[orchid grove]

I would honestly just start with the gun buff. Not every slow TD needs to be an E3/Badger clone

[remote oriole]

The armour of the Tortoise was never touched, however, average penetration on tier eight, nine and ten increased significantly

[terse tinsel]

i think it should keep the cupola, get frontal armor thats pennable by prammo kinda like a a t95 but worse . and a bit of on the move dispersion buff.

[orchid grove]

Well, actually, it’s decreased over time on tier IXs. Remember, back in 2.5, most of the tier IXs that were in the game had full blooded tier X guns like M103 and IS-8, and the mediums had full powered 330 HEAT like on the Leo PTA and the T-54

[remote oriole]

So, I calculated it and for standard ammo the average penetration on tier nine changed only by a tiny margin (it decreased) while for prammo it decreased by almost 30mm. This shouldn‘t be missunderstood as a reverse powercreep as pen levels have been relatively stable in tier nine ever since 3.6 (when the great medium pen nerf happened)

[warm rampart]

changing historical tank models = big no-no

[remote oriole]

Why?

[prisma jetty]

It’s already been done.

[warm rampart]

as far as wargaming isn't historically accurate, they don't change up the models, only stats like mobility, gun and armor. you could suggest a buff to the cupola armor, but not an entire removal of it. personally I'd like to see the gun and armor buffed

[quasi axle]

Didn't they remove the cupola on the e5

[sharp saddle]

Well not removed, but significantly reduced the size of it

[nimble zodiac]

They're physically changing the hitboxes of IS-7 and E100 in 8.3 👀

There's no real point anymore of keeping the models consistent, they already have lots of fake tanks

[warm rampart]

was never built in real life, they can change the shape if they wanted to

@nimble zodiac very slight changes to improve the hitboxes, not entire removals of cupolas. also I don't think fake tanks equate to being able to change up the entire design of a tank built in real life

[unique scaffold]

Please tell me we aren’t doing the whole “realism” thing again.

[nimble zodiac]

It’s not technically an entire removal, I’m sure Tortoise would become strong, but aren’t assault TDs shifting into meta right now?

[warm rampart]

wargaming hasn't made any wacky tank models, only hp and stats, that's my point. defo not gonna ask for realism in blitz, other than the tank models (only tanks built in real life though) remaining the same shape, no stats included

[remote oriole]

I am actually excited for and terrified of a slow-assault TD meta

[drowsy plaza]

M48 Patton cupola trim. M60 with virtually no cupola.

[warm rampart]

M60 without a cupola? what? this can't be real

[nimble zodiac]

😳

[winged barn]

View range: 0

[minor minnow]

angry T95 noises

[leaden flare]

<@&481447501690568709> I think you know what kys stands for + it's not balance related

[gleaming apex]

Hanz#5454 was banned

[empty nexus]

The Feeling of a T95 and Tortoise took slowly approaching you, knowing you were doomed🤣

[unique scaffold]

Nice balanced Matchmaking

[unique scaffold]

Nice reading the pinned messages

[drowsy knot]

oh no here comes the wrath of the mods

[uneven narwhal]

Thank you for spitting facts
You may leave this channel

[quick lichen]

Carry harder

[unique scaffold]

Lol nice mods too

[full token]

Rename the channel to tank balance discussion. Seems that’ll keep some of the MM complaints out

[minor minnow]

I would like to propose something to those who complain about matchmaking: simply get good lol

[warm rampart]

what is this haram

[scarlet fjord]

is the new IS-7's armor as cracked as i think it is gonna be lol

[empty nexus]

No, It’s a small buff to turret armour(no more gold pens 😦 ) and maybe a small buff to hull? the remodeling is what seems to be buffing it. E100 is becoming larger (easier to snipe) aswell

[scarlet fjord]

this seems to be missed by a lot of people but just open the new IS-7 and remove the tracks and spaced armor and just look at the new side armor and compare it to the old one 😂
and the 2nd part of the cheeks of the turret become 390 from 350 so thank god no more 374 HEAT spam to that area only the small cheeks close to the gun

[still yoke]

I think the tiger 2 needs its lower plate to be weaker so its an acual weakspot

[empty nexus]

I don’t have the time rn, but has the side armour been improved or…?
@still yoke cupola and turret suck a lot, but I agree, Lower plate should be nerfed so it can be penned with Gold, rather than being completely oblivious to neatly everything

[scarlet fjord]

its an auto bounce or extremely angled and too hard to pen almost everywhere except a small portion of the side armor
and they also added that small angled part like the one the IS-4 has at the bottom of the side armor only this one u cant overmatch its like a 100 mm

[keen wedge]

I love the imprived E50

[still yoke]

@empty nexus all you need yo do is face the enemy and be at medium range and you cant get penned consistanly lets take the vk100 its suppose to be slow but have great armor yet it has 1 more weakspot and the turret cupolar is huge compared to the tiger 2

[empty nexus]

Yh I agree the lower plate should be pennable but only with gold, might be Interpreted as toxic but like with many other tanks, turn the heat on and the pen becomes more easier. Gold isn’t abused as much as it is in PC either due to price and the fact that it does less damage. I myself carry a 80/15/5 type loadout

[golden turret]

My man the turret is the weakest part of the Tiger II and if you load up gold, the whole front becomes a clappable spot to shoot

[still yoke]

well i dont load gold every tank should be able to take damage from the front if you dont load gold and no the cupolar is only a wekspot if you have an acuarate gun or are very close to the tiger | | | @golden turret thats like saying on pc the obj 703s cupolar makes it balanced

[golden turret]

It's still a weakspot regardless.

[real bison]

bruh the turret front is literally flat

[still yoke]

yes but you cant pen it i dont wanna use more silver or gold to be able to pen a same tier tank

[prisma jetty]

The frontal turret also has a ridiculous amount of spaced armor meaning you need high levels of pen to get through it

[real bison]

what?

the only spaced armour is the mantlet lol?

[still yoke]

i wont spend extra just to get trhough a bs tanks armor

[prisma jetty]

You mean the mantlet that covers the entire front of the turret?

[full token]

Then don’t, but you’ll lose more against that tank since you’ll fire shots that do no damage, and still pay for them, or you’ll have no easy way to deal with that tank other than aiming for the cupola

[still yoke]

do you see that as balanced? having to pay extra to get thrugh a same tier tanks armor?

[prisma jetty]

Blitz is a team game. Play with your teammates. Use your mobility or camo to create a cross fire which allows your team to slowly break through enemy lines

[real bison]

The tiger 2s mantlet does not do that

[full token]

@still yoke It’s a part of the game. Everyone has the same experience as you against that tank. The tank already has the cupola as the weakspot, and if it turns the turret you get to shoot at the side to penetrate with standard ammo. If you don’t want to bother with that, you use a round that will save you time, not require you to reposition, and will allow you to penetrate more areas, all for some extra credits, which aren’t that hard to earn. If you avoid using the prammo, you can lose a battle, and that will make you lose more credits than if you just used that prammo. Do as you want but they are never ever going to change the game to allow prammo to have less use in the way that you want. It’s a waste of time to try and get that changed and it’s much easier and quicker to just change yourself.

@prisma jetty This doesn’t look so small, and that spaced armor doesn’t cover such a big area:

[empty nexus]

Aim better. Not every tank can be countered from long range. Flank adapt, go close, Relocate, snipe that cupola.

If you struggle to deal with a tank it’s because you’re not dealing with it correctly.

[prisma jetty]

Ah, that’s my bad, I though we were talking about the Tiger I. You are correct about the Tiger 2’s turret, it is quite flat and easy to pen

[still yoke]

i was iin the closer part of medium range but couldnt hit any thing | @empty nexushit it my main problem is how much better the tiger to is to the vk 100 the tiger has no lower plate wekaspot but its faster and has more dpm and the cupolar is tiny compared to the vks

[empty nexus]

I always go for the cupola, my shots never seem to hit the turret. Always hit the mantle and bounce.
@still yoke ?? I can’t quite understand your sentence but If you struggle to hit the cupola at medium range due to Inaccuracy, go closer. Inaccurate tanks need to be very close to their targets

[scarlet fjord]

watch this
this is very interesting
T54E1 auto loader had 350 alpha was nerfed to 310 alpha (was too strong) and has no HE
Standard B has 350 alpha (Auto reloading system) < superior system
has something similar to HESH which not only does it have HE but its HE pen is op gj wargaming wonderfully thought out

[remote oriole]

Best part is that four updates after the T54E1 nerf they introduced the K-91, which has a 100mm 3-shot autoloader with 350 alpha

[safe rapids]

It used to be 310.

[drowsy plaza]

@remote oriole the K-91 came with 310. It then got buffed despite over performing already.

[uneven narwhal]

Because we all know an update isn't an update without WG making wack balance decisions

[nimble zodiac]

K-91, with more DPM than Conqueror, and every tier 9 heavy tank, despite being an autoloader

[fervent carbon]

<@&481447501690568709> please make it like @full token said becouse i got baited 😕 and i think i get mute for this it should help other people

[quick lichen]

You @ us for that nonsense? Really?

[nimble zodiac]

Perhaps at least noting it in the channel description would help prevent unaware users from taking out their anger here

Yeah, but that takes a click and some people are too lazy :p

[quasi axle]

This is the 2nd pinned message if you looked at the pins for literally 2 seconds you could find out you can't talk about mm here

[remote oriole]

Nobody ever looks at the pinned messages

[unique scaffold]

Maybe they should start

[bitter fjord]

Nerf yoh

[real bison]

which one, imo they seem pretty reasonable

[prisma jetty]

A 183 with armor is not reasonable. The armor should be nerfed slightly, along with the mobility

[versed tide]

183 doesn’t need changing at all

[winged barn]

That doesn't change that they don't.
Hell, I don't unless I see someone else that mentions there is something useful in the pins.

[brave dragon]

Discord has its limitations. Especially on mobile. Discord’s system is what it is. None of us can change it (like to have a permanent second bar that shows pins or channel info buttons ) But when people join, they agree to the terms, can clearly see what channels are appropriate … and should not come to discord in “ anger “. We all get the same teams, same frustration, …

[frail silo]

to be fair, most people don't even know what those terms are lol

[jagged crescent]

maybe it'll help if u added something like:
"READ PINNED MESSAGES" in the description or whatever

[full token]

add 'tank' to the name. I doubt as many people will see tank and think its for mm

[brave dragon]

Tank-balance- discussion would be great

[bitter fjord]

Yoh needs a nerf coming from a player in comp. In pubs, it has a good amount of armor, and it has 960 clip potential with a pretty accurate gun. It either needs to have easier armor to go through, or it needs to have an increase of aim time and more for its gun. The 3 shot needs to be adjusted as well because you reload so quick it makes its dpm even more ridiculous. That needs a longer reload or longer aim time as well or overall decrease in armor

[warm rampart]

doesn't have armor nor mobility, doesn't need a nerf

[quasi axle]

the 3 shot doesnt need a nerf

[prisma jetty]

It has better armor and mobility than the 183 with a similar gun, it needs a nerf

[bitter fjord]

@quasi axle yes it does. You can easily hide for 5 seconds and in the amount of time someone pushes you, you have a whole clip ready. It is a rapid shooter. Every wondered why people have such high dmg in the yoh because it is overpowered over the other tanks, but people just want to abuse it.

[warm rampart]

what has better armor and mobility? are you talking about the Jageroo? (which you, for some reason, never mentioned)

also, bread, ask for a nerf to the AMX 50 B too, then

[prisma jetty]

No, I'm talking about the Yoh. Why would I suddenly bring up the Jageroo when I've been talking about the Yoh?

[nimble zodiac]

Yoh trades 1300 HESH for armor, a turret, gun depression, HP, a fast clip, with a hard hit

@bitter fjord even AMX 50B with the paper sides and not as strong turret?

[bitter fjord]

@warm rampart I think all heavy clippers except t57 should be nerfed. They have too much hp for the amount of clip potential they have

[bitter fjord]

@nimble zodiac yes because of the crazy hp it has and insane dpm people are able to abuse it. Have you seen why clippers are doing so much better than most tanks? Because they don’t have enough drawback for the huge clip potential they have

[jagged crescent]

I was thinking of nerfed hull frontal armor. It's not exactly good hull armor but for most standard shells at standard range, the fact that an opposing tank has to spend time aiming at only the small-ish lfp often forces it to get potentially blasted by 900 clip.

And this is assuming the Yoh isn't hulldown in which it'll prob just wiggle in order to troll the cupola shots

[warm rampart]

The Yoh isn't a Deathstar but aight lol

[prisma jetty]

It’s got a similar gun, what makes it different is that fact it has better armor and mobility

[teal palm]

A similar gun?
Wow

[nimble zodiac]

Be fair, it’s 900 in 1.7s and you’re closer range with accuracy to avoid long aiming time

A 183 running AP only

[uneven narwhal]

Heh 900 in under 2s is completely broken
Combine that with 10 deg gun depression and an extremely strong turret, you got yourself and OP beast
20s reload?
Well that's why you have your team
Back up to cover an dump that deadly mag again

[bitter fjord]

Exactly why it is used in comp because 6 tanks can cover for it while the enemy gets nuked. It’s too fast. You can clip out before someone can get back in cover

[vital basalt]

You can clip out before someone can get back in cover
heck,you can clip before they even realize that theyre getting shot from someone

[plush perch]

avg player def cant react to the clip

[empty nexus]

Clip is far too quick, Needs to be nerfed to 3 seconds reload for the clip, turret needs to be nerfed (add a weakspot under the big Oval turret) or the hull needs to be nerfed. I’m not concerned tho, Missiles weren’t nerfed 1 update after the came out, but I know 100% the yoh will be nerfed, only question is when

[safe heart]

Hm but they need to bring tanks from tech trees like 215b and e5 by buffing them back into meta so we can have tech tree meta tanks and don't have to open our wallet to get tour tanks (Hulldown)

[rancid trellis]

@safe heart the only tank that out performs the yoh is the mle 54 and it’s rare so while I agree some need buffs the only one I feel needs work is the yoh as far as tier 10 heavies are concerned

[safe heart]

Ye but I want the tanks to be viable on tours as well.not talking about the pubs only rn cauz if we nerf the yoh and don't give a replacement tech tree it's gonna be like wot pc with chieftan /Super conquerors / other collectors and prem spam at tier x

[real bison]

??? The kranvagn and E5 are fine for hulldown

the only major tier X tour tank is the T-22, which isn’t even worth using half the time due to funni heavy meta

[prisma jetty]

215b is not that good at hull down due to the rear turret placement

[safe heart]

Not competent against other tanks who also can hulldown and have more dpm , mobility , less aim time and dispersion etc . Basically if u nerf yoh and dont bring back e5 imo then collectors tanks will rule the meta for tournaments. We dont need tours to be buy collectors tanks to win

[empty nexus]

Nerf yoh -
Tournaments will go back to being More medium tank oriented due to shift in meta, but the meta can’t quite shift due to the OP-ness of The Yoh. Yoh goes, Meds will become common in tournaments. Weird how T22 hasn’t been nerfed. A dpm nerf will suffice + and accuracy nerf (It’s crap gun will Balance its OP-ness in other stats out) cuz they can’t do anything to the armour: IT WILL ALWAYS BE TROLL due to the shape of the hull and the spaced armour.

[safe heart]

Ur mistaken . The collectors Ht will enter the meta simple
Chieftan has amazing dpm and mobility but no Hull armor (some.bounces are still possible )
SQ has amazing armor , dpm and dynamics
T95e6 is fast , has armor and dpm
Vk 90 already in meta

[brave dragon]

To go back to more all rounded teams, a lot more is going to have to happen to shift from heavy domination

[empty nexus]

Those 2 collectors can be nerfed, and probably should and will be nerfed.

@safe heart Collectors can be nerfed so I wouldn’t be surprised if they were. + Theyre rare in tournaments as not many people own them. However I think as wargaming is changing meta to med meta, If they see Super conqs etc. in tournaments they will be nerfed.

[full token]

they wont be nerfed. Theyre treated the same by WG as premiums. If its sold for money/gold they avoid nerfing them

[quasi axle]

collectors can be nerfed according to wg policy but they won't because as tac said they make money off of them

[empty nexus]

😦

[leaden flare]

Mle 54 isn't nearly as good as you make it out to be
It's huge
Has fairly bad pen
Bad DPM
Only front turret armor which also is pennable by 374mm heat iirc

It's not even that strong basically nobody uses it nowadays because it's just not that good

You stated that 54 outperforms yoh which it doesn't yoh is way way way stronger and most other tanks are much better as well imo
You can't judge a tank just from stats on blitz stars imo

[rancid trellis]

I wasn’t making it out to be anything just going from stats on blitz stars, it does do well as second line heavy tho

[bitter fjord]

Is 7 is the real winner

[rancid trellis]

Hold up a minute you say it has bad dpm and bad pen when the pen is the same as most other tier 10 heavies and the dpm is not far off from most maybe 50-80 less check your stats bub

[quasi axle]

The pen is worse cuz it doesn't have 340 heat

[leaden flare]

It has 2,5k DPM
That's Maus lvl of DPM and Maus VK and E100 are superheavys with all having much more hp and armor
IS 4 has like 2,6k DPM
Clippers have around 3k with Thier dpm guns
Yoh has the special gun that has less
Kran has the clip + 2,2k dpm after that
Idk how much dpm e5 has post nerf but before it had 2,8k
215b had 3k+ before the nerf

And the pen is bad because it doesn't have the 340 heat as said and only rather low 320mm of Ap or smth which is better then is 7 but still not very good

[nimble zodiac]

Personally, I love the mle 54, the armor is worth putting behind some cover, forcing enemy players to gamble. When you dance around as you reload, it makes it a lot harder to penetrate

And not to mention it's a hulldown GOD, 160mm of spaced armor backed by 300mm, impossible to penetrate, the weakspots are spread out and small, moving at all makes it that much harder to hit

The gun may not have DPM, but the alpha often takes you over 500, and hits like an E100 if you're unfortunate enough to catch its HE

It's not an apex tank, since it faces the same issue as IS-7, low DPM with decent alpha, which is often rushed onto. It's not bad, and Yoh definitely plays like a frontline with support much better, mle 54 is a terrestrial lane-holding tank

[leaden flare]

I've been penned in the gun mantlet before by heat so you can pen there

It's issue is it's huge sice combined with 8°
Since it's that huge 8° is like 6 for a normal sized tank imo
Often hulldown cover doesn't suit it's sice exposing it's hull which is easily penned with prammo
Pikenoselike front makes it impossible to angle in any non hulldown scenarios

[nimble zodiac]

I'd love to see the clip that disproves that mle 54 has 460mm+ effective total gun mantlet armor, because both BH and wotinsp show that

I can be mle 54 and get some Jageroo to spam CS HEAT at me, but it'll have to take some coordination :p

[leaden flare]

Been on release so no chance of that clip and I cant test cuz I sold it😂

@nimble zodiac you aren't on EU tho so I can't test it

[rancid trellis]

100 dpm is negligible but I didn’t notice the heat your correct there standard pen is on par with the rest tho. No it’s not over powered but it is pretty solid, from my experience anyways and it’s certainly easier to perform with than the IS7 and 215B

[nimble zodiac]

The premium AP on mle 54 is also an upside, makes it around as effective as 340mm or so

[twin egret]

Then restore it

[leaden flare]

I'm not buying gold for that tank ever again😂

[nimble zodiac]

While I'm sure it's not as team effective as the Yoh, it's still a good tier 10

[drowsy plaza]

M4 Mle 54 is one trick pony. Any side shots and it’s toast.

[real bison]

2/4 of those already have horrible cupolas that make them useless to play on a ridge, and why play the VK90 when can have maus still (more armour, more HP, and more importantly, don’t need a massive fortune to get)

The S.Conq is the only real viable option I see here

@safe heart I am not thinking of pubs.

Why would you risk getting shot multiple times in a 101mm thick cupola against competent enemies, when you could just play E5 instead, and wait out reloads while baiting and blocking shots?

mind you different server tourn meta’s vary slightly

[safe heart]

And does yoh not have a cupola to shoot?
Ur thinking in terms of pubs . Tours are quite different.

[unique scaffold]

Please continue to update the WZ-113G FT it is still awful and is barely above mediocre

[nimble zodiac]

You're funny

Ah yes, being a bad version of an apex tank makes you bad
You know heavy meta is still a thing :p

[winged barn]

It's still a bad 110e3

It's an e100 - turret and hp
Press 2, pen

[quasi axle]

Ah yes, being a bad version of an apex tank makes you bad
it sort of does though (in general)
balance is relative
If two tanks are similar and intended for the same playstyle and one of them is better
the other tank is just irrelevant

[nimble zodiac]

Yeah but that doesn’t mean it’s a bad tank balancewise

[twin egret]

Vk 90 has -10 gun depression

[twin egret]

No, China should stay mediocore

[dreamy oar]

I think China should just be the carbon copy of russian tanks that are bit more accurate

[jagged crescent]

the chinese tanks are honestly in a good spot rn. Since 8.2, all 3 lines are actually pretty strong

[real bison]

rear mount turret

[wicked sluice]

Agreed,the td became playable for the first time and the other 2 are pretty good too

[scarlet fjord]

are you joking?
it has bad pen or are you forgetting how strong AP is?
its turret is easily pennable with 374 HEAT pen?
its got bad DPM?
its DPM is same as every other 2500 DPM heavy tank only this one has 480 alpha damage and that cracked -20 reverse speed and insane mobility forwards as well not to mention -8 degrees of gun dep (same as E5) with kranvagn level turret armor and its traverse speed on the turret somewhat helps with the flat sides which u can shoot sometimes if u are at its flank unlike the russian turrets which are troll even to gold rounds
still the tank is beyond cracked

[twin egret]

^^I agree, the only thing balancing them is how scarce they are to come across ngl

[scarlet fjord]

yes literally

[nimble zodiac]

I mean I got 72% WR over 61 battles
Me? 72%? Must be good

[fervent wave]

ONLY 61 BATTLES THATS WHY ITS 72, I GOT 2K AND IM AT 50.5
https://media.tenor.com/images/bc84adde6cbcf3ea02b605a61584a6f0/tenor.gif

[twin egret]

That should be impossible, since it's one of the most broken tier 10s

[uneven narwhal]

some have skill issues
Also his name demanding the removal of dispersion isn't doing him any favors either lol

[leaden flare]

Iirc there aren't many 2,5k DPM heavys Maus and VK both superheavys
The heat thing on the turret happend once to me seems like that was a 1 time thing
It's 8° is only worth like 6° because it's that insanely big and there is basically no cover for a tank that tall so Ur hull often is visible and pennable
Why do I even type this out again I already said that in another post

Imo it's weaker them most other T10 heavys
I preferred all heavys over it so far which doesn't mean I performed bad in it

[fervent wave]

Oh man it will do me well, the using the soviet slappers will be easier

[scarlet fjord]

i think that's a you problem
I'm going to say this again most tanks including E5 have around 2500-2600 DPM give or take 10-30 difference your argument is baseless
the 8 degrees are 8 degrees calling it worth 6 degrees cuz its either a rear mounted gun or a tall tank is irrelevant
not finding proper positioning for your tall tank is a you problem you havent proven anything with your argument sorry but that tank is completely cracked and youtubers confirm this including the ones that arent affiliated with WG
oh and the gun mantlet you cant pen that specially not with HEAT rounds you either had ping and the shell appeared like it penned the gun mantlet or its a glitch which is unlikely to happen in everyday scenarios

[unique scaffold]

nerf smasher when?

[vital basalt]

good luck penning this gun mantlet

[versed tide]

The only 2500 dpm tanks out there are like maus vk and e5 compared to the tons of others above that, maus and vk are super heavies and e5 is just bad

[leaden flare]

just ignore the fact that i said that i didnt perform bad in it like a true monke

i just said its nowhere near as good as the person claimed it to be
its has turret and thats about it
hull isnt great, it has a cupola which tbh is fairly hard to hit at max gun depression, it has weak sides as all frenchies, decent speed and a gun that isnt that reliable
it may have AP prammo but also fairly low pen and unless you run CS which kills your dpm even more youu will face issues at times against a decent player

its not cracked as you make it out to be because if it was people would spam it like vk90 and literally nobody plays it even tho i know plenty of people owning it
it was insanely broken in test therefore some people have insane stats in it since WG, even tho they should, dont delete the stats after testing

[scarlet fjord]

I guess it's not to your playstyle because I literally don't mind the 310 AP feels like E100 HEAT but ignores spaced armor
And Go on tank compare and you will see most heavies are at 2560-2630
And it is like 2590 if I remember correctly but it has 480 alpha and sides are 100mm although it's flat it's not half bad with the mobility alpha and insane turret in my eyes and hands it feels cracked
Bear in mind I am talking about pubs

[nimble zodiac]

I’m pestered that you hate it the most out of all the t10 heavies 🤔

[leaden flare]

I don't hate it I just don't like it and fighting it never was even slightly troublesome
Fighting In it wasn't too bad either just the gun sucked and it's huge profile

[proper turtle]

is 4 best equipment wot blitz

[nimble zodiac]

The gun sucked? =(

[nimble zodiac]

I mean even if you don't hate it, disliking it is closest, so I guess it applies

Even over T95E6? Well you did say "so far" so I guess you don't have the experience to dislike a tank as rare as T95E6

[real bison]

take CS because 374 heat pen is always funny trust

quick FYI for those who didn’t know: HEAT and HE shells do NOT lose pen over distance, unlike AP and APCR

@scarlet fjord however, the shell auto bounces at 85°. Anything below that, it won’t auto bounce, but instead attempt to pen the plate regardless of effective thickness

[scarlet fjord]

quick FYI AP and APCR shells have shell normalization which is 5 degrees and 2 degrees respectively which is way superior mechanic plus u go through spaced armor
but an amazing trick about the HEAT shell which i like the most is that it almost never ricochets very reliable in that way

[hearty steeple]

Heat doesn't ricochet in blitz ever. Atleast according to wg on the blitz portal

[quasi axle]

I believe it can but the angle at which it can is something that is rarely seen in a game

[hearty steeple]

This is what I was referring to. This is supposed to be the most up-to-date documented game mechanics by wg

https://na.wargaming.net/support/en/products/wotb/article/15409/

[nimble zodiac]

Any two caliber rule involvement?

[remote oriole]

No. Ricochet check happens after the three caliber rule check and before the two caliber rule check

[twin egret]

What's the difference between a Bounce and a Ricochet? Does anyone know?

[reef crane]

Pretty sure bounce just means a non penetrating hit and a ricochet means the shell keeps going but got deflected due to the angle of the armor that it hit

[prisma jetty]

There is no difference. Bounce and Ricochet are the same thing

[foggy aurora]

Bounce is just another way of saying ricochet since both have the essentially the same meaning in this game and irl

[nimble zodiac]

I think they are mechanically different

Bounce would instantly render the shell unable to do further damage, while ricochet allows the shell to hit another target, or, often, hit another part of the tank

Above is why you'll see a black "ricochet" flash on their icon but proceed to do damage anyways

[foggy aurora]

In your case of bouncing from the image above it would still be a ricochet since there is still some kinetic energy left after the impact or else the shell would either be lodged in the armor or has completely shattered depending on the shell.

So as long as there is still some of the kinetic energy left it can always hit something else whenever it bounces off or ricochets off a armor plate for instance.

[nimble zodiac]

Yes but in Blitz they're differentiated, since a ricochet allows the shell to hit another target, a bounce just despawns the shell basically

Also I think the phrase "10 caliber rule" out of context is hilarious

[leaden flare]

I bloody love E6 that tank is just amazing
2,8k DPM
Fast as Heck
Accurate
Fast turret
Troll

[empty nexus]

I think what you saw was a glitch. Sometimes when they shoot your mantle the shot penetrates the spaced armour but not the actual armour so on your tank it appears that there is a bullet hole in your mantlet (happened to me before) - most likely the shell hit something else on your turret and was incredibly lucky (yesterday I sniped a T54e2 Cupola at 300m in a Shark)

[magic lodge]

Vk100 need a little buff on mobility

[winged barn]

Slow tank too slow plz buff

[leaden flare]

I can't catch medium must buff

[twin egret]

I'd say a ricochet is when a shell slides against and then gets redirected.

A bounce is a direct hit , armour fails to penetrate, and like a ball hitting the wall directly, bounces

[unique scaffold]

Balance in a rng driven game Lol

[jagged crescent]

You're a bright one

[scarlet fjord]

give the Foch 155 the 640 alpha gun again WG so we can choose between autoloader and that gun

[thick rover]

Buff 5A plz

[iron flume]

But why…

[scarlet fjord]

Auto loader after the nerf in the current meta seems meh I can just drive a 50B and do the same job better but with the 640 alpha gun its way different

[drowsy plaza]

I honestly don’t know why they clobbered the single shot gun the way they did. Either they should restore its alpha to make it a viable option (or buff the DPM, dispersion etc) or just remove it and only have the 2 shot.

It’s simple to rename one of them - so they don’t have identical stats. The Obj 140 and T-62A guns where split / only makes sense to split the two guns in the Foch

[scarlet fjord]

it honestly frustrates me sometimes when they do these things

[leaden flare]

My only guess is lazyness and that somewhere in Thier code the DMG from both guns is linked therefore both guns changed

[drowsy plaza]

Yeah.

@unique scaffold the 183 has been debated here repeatedly. Short version - the HESH alpha and pen are broken for a 7v7 game and as a result the balance has been to make it terrible

[sharp saddle]

As long as it keeps the firepower potential it currently has, it needs to stay terrible.
I remember pre-nerf 183, seeing several of them in every single game - it was obnoxious. Even after the nerfs it received, the tank continues to be highly played, but I wouldn’t say to the extent it was previously

[winged barn]

Yes, but then they have to also adjust the other statistics (rate of fire, accuracy, ect)
Lazy, but more work

[leaden flare]

They have to do an entirely new segment for a new gun😂

[winged barn]

Ctrl+c ctrl+v

[leaden flare]

No 😂

[full token]

<@&481447501690568709> harmful link delete pls

[thorn mason]

So

[real bison]

try to get 5 games in a row in the 183 where you hit 3 penning HESH shells, it’s almost impossible, the thing is meant to be bad to balance the fact it can potentially one shot a tier 9 MT

[winged barn]

Or you could use the great ap pen and get 4 shots in.
It's really not hard to do 4 shots of damage when you have 310 pen

[scarlet fjord]

its not impossible lol the tank is only viable if ur a 60%+ player and even then it needs to suit your playstyle perfectly
you need to frontline that thing against literally whatever u want meds are easier to HESH but harder to get to their flank some Heavies u can pen frontally with 242 HESH but if u cant u can always use speed boost and flank them from an empty side if possible
if frontlining or 2nd line support isnt possible in this very rare situation u can camp for half a game or u can camp all game if ur always shooting bots who come out in the open for you
its still a cancerous tank when i see someone literally yoloing in a 183 i know he's 90% of the time a very good player going in for a HESH shell and then hiding behind either team mates or something else so i focus them
the fact that ur tanks name is FV 215B 183 is a nerf to your tank as everyone will shoot you first since ur annoying

[sterile cypress]

Please explain how this is fair match making?

[uneven narwhal]

1. Wrong channel

2. It's not, MM is random and steamroll matches like these are inevitable
   Now take the data of a large number of matches, and see the average of both sides come out near equal

[sterile cypress]

1. What is the right channel.
2. 7-0 Steamroll games are boring (Win or Lose) WG needs to fix MM or this game will die. And this is coming from someone that has spent almost $4k on the game.

[winged barn]

Random matchmaking too random plz rig

[dark glen]

1. Pinned msg
2. Money spent makes no argument, nor can steamrolls be prevented. Cough CW cough

[uneven narwhal]

I'd rather have random MM than absurdly long queue times everytime I wanna play just to sweat my butt off every single match because no match is an easy farm fest and steam roll anymore

[gleaming apex]

littlefinger101.CRUEL#7001 was muted

[whole flower]

thats going on yt. wg oppressors!

[nimble zodiac]

You're funny

Sorry for oppressing rulebreakers

[jagged crescent]

no more good boy stickers for you!

[leaden flare]

That's a unusually high reaction on a MM thingy unless I missed some insulting which I don't think happend

They usually get a warn at max

[full token]

He should read the pinned messages no one reads

[bronze zenith]

The problem with the 183 (and other derp guns) is that it's terrible until it hits you and half your HP is wiped. As such, wargaming pretty much nerfed every other stat apart from penetration and alpha damage to some of the worst values out of all tanks in its tier. What we now have is a tank with statistically the worst stats and performance in tier 10 yet still be considered broken because that one 1300 damage roll can turn the game

[bronze zenith]

If we look at the graph the original guy talked about that dip right before the heavy tanks is the 183's stats. It comes in dead last, and by quite a large margin

[versed tide]

sheridan is epic

[twin egret]

I find it strange that if you have; for example one heat shell, and it's selected, and you are driving an autoloader/autoreloader, you only have that shell loaded into the magazine, and not loaded in with any of the other type of shells. You're forced to reload your whole magazine if you accidentally switch to type shell where there's only one type of it left in your ammo selection.

[wicked quest]

That would be a somewhat interesting overhaul if you could choose which rounds were loaded into the magazine

[unique scaffold]

Kranvagn and IS4 need better turret traverse speed. This nerf was unnecessary. Kran was just played so strong because the gun is good, even though the DPM is low and with the speedboost you just can do quick movements similiar to E5. For E5 the main reason why it was used so often in CW was the speedboost. I mean a heavy tanks fast as a med. IS4 is overall a good tank but nowhere pretty outstanding. It just had much HP. Gun is like sometimes love sometimes hate. Armor is easy to pen for other heavies.

[last shadow]

IS4 is overall a good tank but nowhere pretty outstanding

[uneven narwhal]

Yes IS-4 totally does not have a god tier gun, god armor, and good speed for all that armor
It surely needs a buff

[sharp saddle]

Most of the heavy tank nerfs were deserved.
It’s part of making mediums shine more alongside their buffs

[remote oriole]

More nerfs please 😄

[last shadow]

Remember ^^

[remote oriole]

#ProudHeretic

[gleaming apex]

Warlord_Simba123#6401 was muted

Miłosz Wronko#2730 was banned

[tawny leaf]

Lol why is everyone getting muted?

[nimble zodiac]

Probably because they violated the channel or server's rules, like anyone who gets muted by responsible mods

[scarlet fjord]

183 is performing poorly because it takes exceptional skill to drive it and do well as you need to compensate for its crap stats and use it's broken gun to annihilate
All you need is 16 seconds with speed boost and adrenaline to change the course of a battle that includes heavy tanks side but it takes seriously good flanking perfect timing just when they are the most vulnerable u jump on then from their side unspotted with speed boost shooting HESH and popping adrenaline right after they fired idc what heavy tank that is but it's screwed and all it can do is shoot you back for 400+ but that takes really good patience and timing

[unique scaffold]

what next ? hear only noobs what wants in game ? or old players who have vision or do same garbage as all times ? your choice your game your grave ! your problems !

[golden turret]

More like ‘Your words, your mute, your ban’ :troll:

[brave dragon]

The game has been doomed for what now? 6 years ...

[nimble zodiac]

Totally so doomed 🤪

[twin egret]

Lol

[drowsy plaza]

According to the NA Forum the game was doomed in Aug 2014…

[leaden flare]

Proves it "DooM is eternal"😂

[modest zodiac]

What do you guys think about the AT-7 and Tortoise? Do they need to get buffed?

[unique scaffold]

@orchid grove ironic are players who play more as 5 years and wait for better days !

[scarlet fjord]

absolutely for the Tortoise the AT-7 i havent played for years i cant say i really enjoyed it for what it was 3 years ago but right now almost everything around it got seriously buffed on so many ways so I'm guessing its crap now

[gray seal]

183 should get op consumables to compensate for it's lack of wr compared to other tanks

[uneven narwhal]

No

[fringe kiln]

Is Pudel decent compared to other T6 meds or should i just sell it?

[scarlet fjord]

if u gave 183 op speed boost that thing will be broke i promise you that
I'm running it with a regular one and its barely manageable
you can really see 183's problems going poof when u give it mobility from events

[blissful vigil]

Pudel is the average medium tier 6 tank. The one thing that stands out is how much HP you can get from that thing because you can use sandbags on it. 1,1k HP is quite a bit for a medium tank.

[gleaming apex]

Rommel#5671 has been warned.

[real bison]

oh the great god has given us his wisdom

[nimble zodiac]

I like how people think it’s going to be balanced, when it’s only designed to be fair

And boom, all in the wrong channel again

[gleaming apex]

Grizzer_Bear#6162 was muted

[full token]

Don’t click on this. Unsafe link

[deft jay]

Please buff WZ-120

[quasi axle]

they are buffing gun dep it no longer needs a buff

[quiet pilot]

when a t5 tank destroyer has higher dpm than a t8 heavy tank: pls buff emil 1

[full token]

Better on paper. You’ll rarely be putting out damage at a greater rate with the su

[winged barn]

Omg a tier 10 has worse dpm than a tier 3 plz buff

[quiet pilot]

ke ni otsu is impossible to get if you dont already have it

[wicked quest]

And it’s also impossible to somehow do bad in Emil 1 but here we are

[full token]

The kran dpm is if you fire the first shot and save the other two. The dpm when firing on an empty clip is 2k+

[uneven narwhal]

Pretty sure autoreloader DPM is calculated by firing all shells then reloading the entire mag then emptying it again which is like the worst way to use ur mag unless you have no targets to shoot at
Effective DPM is around 2400

[full token]

i think its the better way. Fire all your shells and then you also get the better dpm. No point trying to save your shells while you have targets to whittle down and maybe remove from the battle

oh i misread your point. Thought you meant to fire the first shot alone and save the rest. My bad. The dpm they show is just from firing the first shot while two more shells are loaded but the tank gets better dpm from firing from an empty clip, after theyve already unloaded 3 shots into someone

[bronze osprey]

its getting a buff in 8.3

[sharp saddle]

With the more manageable gun depression, you’ll be able to put that gun to work easier. It’ll be less frustrating to play as well.
With that proposed buff, I think it’ll be perfectly fine

[gleaming apex]

CplBorgs2005#1820 was muted

[drowsy plaza]

Please don’t respond to non balance discussions. It’s easier to just mute those folks.

[unique scaffold]

Pls give the ac 46 a better armor.

[bitter fjord]

Nerf yoh. You know it is overpowered with both guns and that is exactly why it is being abused in comp

[leaden flare]

i still want heavys god forsaken view range nerfed getting spotted over 250m away by an e100 while i was behind a bush passively spotting
its just dumb they can spot better then meds because they have both armor and a ton of hp so taking a hit isnt as bad

[twin egret]

What tank were you driving

[leaden flare]

121

[twin egret]

That Makes sense why then

[scarlet fjord]

121 has great stationary camo for a med you were doing smt weird

[mental pasture]

In fact, heavy tanks never needed good or decent view ranges. A very slow tank with high armor/hp pool do not need to spot, and if it does, it shall not spot easily it's targets. Spotting is another tank's job, not something that an E100 or IS-4 should be able to do.

[empty nexus]

No, tank is already fantastic, has good GD and when using the GD the armour is troll. Skill problem is all I can say

[real bison]

you sure it was the E100 who spotted you then

[leaden flare]

Yeah I'm sure there was a Sheri but he was on the other side of the map

[real bison]

screenshots?? replay file??

[golden turret]

Did that really just come out of your mouth? MEDIC!!

[remote oriole]

Yes, how can I help?

[unique scaffold]

Dude i played nearly every t7 td. Only the japanes and Chinese t7 tds are missing.every other td on t7 that i played did good and i was able to do good dmg.even the st.emil (befor it got buffed).the ac 46 feels like a trash.and i dont know what is troll armor for you but the hatches on it are like the AT-7 hatch just that ac 46 has 2 of them that are easy to pen.sure dpm is good and the mobility is not bad.but for it is not realy something to keep it in your garage after getting the t8 ac 48. Also only 970 hp.this is nearly the neveau of a t6 td.sure t25 At also has only 980 hp but it got armor .su-100m1 970hp but good dpm and a t9 gun with insane pen.if you compare it to all the other t7 TDs they are way better .

[quasi axle]

It only has armor against t7 meds which are not known for their pen, and even then there are two huge weakspots you can shoot

[real bison]

I mean you can also use the very nice -10° gun dep to make the weakspots thicker

[unique scaffold]

Wont help caus the hatches

[versed tide]

Don’t sit in front of people ez

[empty nexus]

That’s something you gotta get used to till you get the Foch.

Personally I found the AC 46 really enjoyable, armour saved me a couple of times, and the gun was great. Mobility is also nice, can’t have everything

[safe rapids]

Real problem with the AC 46 is why play it? The T25 AT, Chi-To SPG, and JPanther all are better. I’d love to see the gun buffed to the pen of the “regular” SA47 gun (232/263 on AP and APCR) so that can be it’s strength. It’ll still keep the good mobility and meh armor.

[full token]

Play it to grind the line

[sweet prism]

I would very much like all the tds in french line from tier 7 to 9 get autoloader guns. Give them two shot autoloaders, make the line interesting and spicy like the tier X.

[safe rapids]

As long as they keep their single shot guns as a competitive option.

[unique scaffold]

So you mean like 2cliper with 200dmg per shot with a 10 or 12 second clip reload

[sweet prism]

No, same calibre guns they currently have. Two clip guns for ac 46 and 48, and maybe 3 clip for foch tier 9.

[unique scaffold]

Please buff the Obj 140's gun characteristics, turret, or engine

[unique scaffold]

I tried it and this is no joke: all the shots where missing the enemies.even if i was fully aimed in it missed and i did 10 shot.fron those 10 shots 2 hitted a track but did no dmg

[ivory quiver]

Agreed the tier VII and VIII are just too boring and not as good as the other options at t8

[stray verge]

I mean, the 140 is one of the better tier ten meds but a buff wouldn’t hurt given how meta the e50m and pattons are

[quasi axle]

idk if it's one of the better ones

[prisma jetty]

140's in a pretty bad spot, but buffing it probably isn't the way to go. A small turret buff may not be too bad for it, but I'd rather see nerfs to the other tanks that are pushing it out of usefulness

[stray verge]

140 is still this finesse brawler with decent mobility and a good enough turret. The weak turret is only partially true as yes you have roof and cupolas but some spots can very easily hide the roof and make the cupolas hard to hit and if you shoot the cheeks, it would either bounce or if it does pen, all other mediums besides for t22 would all play out similarly. 30b, leo 1, and prog are kind of a joke with the 30b having mediocre armor and a bad gun, leo 1 doesn’t have enough gun to compensate the trash armor, mediocre camo rating, and large size, and prog is useless in hulldown engagements, has atrocious sustained dpm, and mediocre gun handling. 4202 outside of being a hard counter to paper tanks lacks the HESH consistency to really be one of the better mediums

stb, 4202, and the 121s are better but the stbs gun now with the dpm buffs is frankly quite bad and has turret weakspots. 121b is pretty good at brawling and hulldown but there are better tanks to do so and the 121 suffers from one major flaw: poor otm dispersion.

That leaves us with the soviets, pattons, tvp, and e50m.

[rotund skiff]

The leopard is one of the best mediums. Only non premium medium I’d consider better is the stb-1.

[lunar niche]

One of the best at farming heavies/meds that doesn't look at it.

[stray verge]

Because the stb is quite bad now due to powercreep. The Leo yes can be a lot of fun but 3.6k isnt too far off from 3.5k the soviets and pattons have and the armor means that you take more damage during brawls that can negate your dpm advantage not to mention that fv4202s can yolo you and destoy you with its 3.8k HESH dpm WITHOUT RAMMER

[rotund skiff]

Soviet meds have bad depression. 4202 is only comparable if the user is planning to go 5 figure negative with pramo. Patton is sluggish for a med. stb-1 is not powecrept. It’s not played often because it’s line is objectify the most painful to grind. It’s armor and depression make it a monster on hilly terrain. It’s dpm isnt good for a med to compensate for its potential.

[stray verge]

STB can still hulldown pretty well but considering the giant hatch cheeks pennable by standard, bad hull armor, and disappointing 3.2k dpm, its hard to find a reason to use the STB over a 62A, pattons, or e50m.

i do agree that the 4202 is just ok given how inconsistent the hesh can be, but COST SHOULD NOT BE FACTORED INTO OVERALL PERFORMANCE AT ALL. The pattons have the best in class viewrange and the mobility yes is bad for a medium but still good enough to get into a hulldown position.

7 degrees on the 62a is enough to work with most ridgelines. 6 degrees may be lackluster on certain terrain but its still perfect workable on most ridgelines helps that soviet mediums have low profiles

[versed tide]

stb is faster than m48 and 62a and has more turret armor and gun depression over the 62a and e50m, the fv4202 has no turret armor as well so stb wins there

[twin egret]

The Pattons don't actually have the best view range out of all the meds iirc

[sudden path]

Ah yes the stb goes from "it's the best tech tree med" to "pls buff" in one patch bc of the med buffs
Bruh stb is fine, it's still really good at hulldown
You dont need an impenetrable turret to go hulldown

[quasi axle]

stb literally has best med turret besides t22

[rotund skiff]

^

[hearty steeple]

Pattons do have best in class viewrange and second best in game behind Vickers lt

Yep that's what I was talking about. And all other meds in the tier have 265 base iirc @versed tide

[versed tide]

vickers has 280 base and patton has 270 base. read that wrong ig

[stray verge]

not really. I don’t really like ranting about weakspots but the stb has a pretty big hatch and weak cheeks pennable by standard. STB’s turret is more or less the same as the pattons.

I seriously question your opinions at times

[rotund skiff]

I’m seriously questioning your opinion.

[quasi axle]

damn what a weak turret
3 tiny weakspots is such a big issue

[stray verge]

Its better than average but the stbs turret isn’t as good as alot of people claim.

Mantlet still gets cheesed by like 340 heat.

@quasi axle Tell me the last time you deliberately aimed for that spot omegalul

i haven’t been playing recently but i dont struggle hitting the stbs hatch especially in my mediums. STB turret is still pretty good by medium standards but its still a medium turret and it isn’t good enough to compensate the bad hull armor and mediocre gun and the STB is just…average.

[rotund skiff]

I can’t tell whether Sara is basing their opinion on the sheer factor of in game stats or actual battle knowledge, performance, and potential.

[prisma jetty]

Oh no, it has a cheek weak spot like… we’ll just about every other med. And this one is smaller than any other aside from the T22

[nimble zodiac]

Did you just use a tier 10 heavy premium ammunition as an example against a tier 10 medium trying to hulldown against it?

Besides, if you move around a bit while hulldown, it’ll cause loads of problems for the enemy firing at you

[stray verge]

Doesnt change the fact that some mans can still shoot standard around that area and pen.

Either way, again, even with a very good turret considering medium standards, STB hasn’t really responded well to 8.2 as the e50m and m48 became repacements. 140 is practically unchallenged being the finesse brawler, t22 is the kind of reverse sidescraping though the gun is not special anymore, and the 62a has the accuracy to snipe weakspots. STB is a example that the turret is good but not good enough to really be viable over some other mediums given that the stb doesn’t really bring much.

[rotund skiff]

If I’m reading this right Sara is saying the 140 is better than the stb… not worth my time explaining how that’s wrong. Sara keeps saying that the stb cheeks are it’s achilles’ heel but no stb driver is going to stand still long enough for you to Grab a shot at those tiny weak points

[stray verge]

STB can really only be a hulldown medium which admittedly is a very good tactic that makes the STB not as bad as it could be.

However, having tanks that can hulldown better because of better DPM while still having a solid or at least a good enough turret again isn’t too good of a look for the STB.

STB in its current form really isn’t best suited for the meta 8.2 and its subsequent updates are going to carve out. But who knows, maybe STB would also get a significant buff like what the pattons and e50m got.

[quasi axle]

why do you complain so much about the stb's tiny weakspots when the whole patton turret is a weakspot (for gold)
and the cheeks are only 240mm

[rotund skiff]

E50m turrets is also fairly poor. Yields 290mm at max depression.

[stray verge]

I have tried the stbs turret with a clanmate of mine. 263s apcr can go through the stbs turret reasonably well and the 340 heat just goes through easily

@rotund skiff its the fact that you need gold that makes the e50ms turret good, and even then, your aim needs to be good and you tank needs good accuracy (or rng) or you would most likely hit the mantlet

[quasi axle]

in the weakspots or on the actual armor
because if it's on the actual armor either you're lying or you tested on flat ground

[stray verge]

try it yourself with a few friends

[quasi axle]

how did 340 heat get through 330 mm of spaced armor exactly

[winged barn]

Ez solution:
Give stb front and side hull armor to make it comparable to sconq, remove the hatch, make the cheeks invincible, buff the dpm to 4k, buff the mobility, give it 5 more degrees of depression, double prammo (340heat and 220hesh), and give it all the superconsumables

Ez balanced

[rotund skiff]

Give it the hydronuematic suspension system

[thick rover]

And then we can bring in strv

[rare sleet]

140 is good, One of my favorite tier 10s so im biased but people underestimate how annoying a low profile tank is to fight against

[rotund skiff]

The stridsvagn 103B and the 60tp were the 2 branches I desired in wotB. The 103B line could honestly be a viable choice for the wotB roster. The Atgms and m-V/VI yoh tracks are proof blitz is indulged in creating unique game features. Why not add hydronuematic suspensions in as well. Would need a nerf to its upper plate, given it averages 300mm, and has a High Explosive shield. Any thoughts?

[full token]

Atgms were removed from the game’s regular battles and they’ve been saying the hydroneumatic suspension feature doesn’t fit in blitz

[rare sleet]

Hydro pneumatic Suspension is a completely different kind of feature compared to missiles and the Yoh reverse track system. They even said

"Q: European tech tree is coming soon. Is it correct to suppose that Swedish TD with hydraulic suspension mechanics coming soon?

A: In WoT Blitz it’s quite difficult to embody hydraulic suspension mechanics. However European tech tree gives us the opportunity to focus on more interesting vehicles."

Its a much different feature to implement into the game, and they also said that

"When is Swedish TD line coming?
Those vehicles won't fit into Blitz gameplay mainly because of our maps. We don't plan to add this line and focus on more suitable vehicles instead. "

So it's a pretty much guarentee from this point forward no special suspension features and no swedish TD's.
Given how the realistic suspension is just graphical. Hydro-pneumatic suspension is a next level new gimmick where the tank needs special modes and the model has to be shifted when needed and not just only needs to be graphically changed.
Also different from the powers from gamemodes because those just change up some values to the vehicles statistics and so on

[versed tide]

We went from stb 1 being powercrept to hydro pneumatic suspension

[rotund skiff]

Blitz is a continuously evolving game. Looking back 7 years, I wouldn’t have imagined half these vehicles in the game. Right now, the first clan event tank is on its way. There are leaks of larger maps. I believe blitz will eventually eat their own statement. Maybe the line doesn’t fit the game’s current state, but we’ll see in a couple of years.

[full token]

If they make larger maps and figure out extra buttons for mobile devices, it could happen, but those tanks won’t happen for now since the statement by WG isn’t that old

[wicked quest]

I don’t really trust the map leaks either considering this is the only “relevant” result you get when you search it on YouTube and this guys known for being toxic and you can already see pretty clickbaity

They already kinda blew our expectations by managing to add recoiling guns and actually working suspension which they improved upon the last few updates but these alone won’t really justify the Strv being added they stated the maps are just too small for the tank to be used in and for the mechanic to be in effect

[real bison]

also, you have to balance the 103B to Blitz; it auto bounces all 120mm guns and less on PC, meaning that the only MT in Blitz that can pen it without having to hit its’ small cupola is the 121. This also rules out the E5, S.Conq, Chieftain, and other 120mm wielding HTs

Edit: not to mention it’s camo rating, and the fact that it can go 60kph forwards and 45 back, oh and it’s incredible accuracy in siege mode

[full token]

The map leaks came from some Russian news source. From what I’ve heard they’ve been mostly correct in the past so maybe they’re right about this one

[twin egret]

Not to mention the plum of smoke and the color of the shell when fired too

[unique scaffold]

who cares --- wg no cares , players no care , world no care !

[uneven narwhal]

hmm care

[thick rover]

Ah yes mrlian the resident philosopher

[quasi axle]

Quick write that down

[nimble zodiac]

I'm actually concerned for their psychological health, that's a pretty grim outlook right there

[winged barn]

Being realistic is concerning?

[rare sleet]

but does he link the source and their past leaks

[full token]

Maybe if he revealed it he would no longer get to share the leaks.
As for the past leaks it’s a Russian source and I don’t speak Russian and can’t bother to look around on the social media they use for it

[strange shore]

Happy wotb does lots of clickbaits video.

[mental pasture]

This guy is the biggest youtube channel to spread fake news and enormous clickbaits about WOTB, I don't think even politicians do things at this level

[golden turret]

Oh it’s this guy. I hate his voice honestly. It’s annoying. Not to mention the clickbait.

[mental pasture]

Sometimes he's even beyond the english language

[twin egret]

FV4202 has legendary camo now tho

[rare sleet]

ye ik and im disappointed it looks kinda bad. I expected a more dark green colour but the animal is weird and so are the wheels

[twin egret]

I dig it, it looks historical to an extent, but I do see why you say it's a weird animal

savana themed cano
animal known to be in the jungle
I guess they meant a cheetah but got that instead...?

[nimble zodiac]

I like how the problem here isn't the game, and it's just one team being more like a team than the other

[drowsy plaza]

@unique scaffold relates to balance how? Oh yeah it doesn’t.

[gleaming apex]

milanmrlian#1465 was muted

[twin egret]

Based Crusader?

[versed tide]

The wise one has spoken

[low cliff]

he could have spent the 6500 hours reading the pinned messages in #tank-balance-discussion but alas, blitz is far too important

[real bison]

eyup read pinned msgs innit bigman

[twin egret]

Milanmrlian's alt?

[real bison]

can’t be, we’d see even more broken English

[leaden flare]

Your mistake is U assumed he knows how to read

[gray seal]

Yeah it's pretty powercrept nowadays I'd suggest something like the gravedigger or hafen

[uneven narwhal]

.....
wut.

[ornate shuttle]

buff 215b dpm back pls, the tank has nothing going for it now

[gleaming apex]

Felix_Imre#3195 was banned

[stuck acorn]

idk why they nerfed it in the first place, this tank was already balanced and not many players could use it correctly anyways. As i agree with IS-4, E5 and kran nerf there was no point it touching 215b. When you look at the #devs-answers in both 8.0 and 8.1 215b was the lowest wr tank out of all T10 heavies. Now it will fall even more, because they nerfed only thing that was actually good about the tank

[versed tide]

215b in its old state benefited the most of really any heavy tank in a medium meta so ig they nerfed it because of that

[nimble zodiac]

We talk about changes to tanks that should be made to keep the game balanced here, make sure to read the rules and pinned messages so you don’t mess up 😄

[stuck acorn]

still there was no point to nerf it, this tank is quite slow, it has bad gun depression, rear mounted turret combined with weak side armor, weak armor overall and low alpha. It had only 3 big advantages which were great dpm (still lower than 113 which also have better alpha, armor and mobility and didn't get nerfed at all lol) great accuaracy + amazing gun handling and ridiculous HE pen. That's all. Everything else about the tank was avergae/ bad. Only small % of players could make that work. Rear mounted turret and bad gun depression don't allow it to hull down and weak side armor makes side scrape which is speciality of rear turreted tanks useless on it. This tank had it's specific playstyle because even if it's a heavy tank your armor doesn't work and mobility doesn't allow you to keep up with medium like in for example 50b's case. This tank already had disadvantage because it wasn't fast enugh to keep up with mediums and play like a medium brawler and it's weak armor alpha and low HP pool didn't allow it to fight with other heavies in most scenarios. All this tank could do was use teammates as a shield and farm enemies which doesn't care about you, now even this playstyle won't be that effective

[full token]

WG believed it would be meta again if they nerfed the other heavies and left it alone. Maybe it could’ve gotten a rebalance instead. Remove the consumables that were the issue and give it something else, but WG never thinks about doing that

[stuck acorn]

@full token then they believed wrong. One of the worst tanks of it's class won't become a meta just because few of other tanks from the same class got nerfed. This tank used to be meta only because back then heavies had smaller HP pool and it actually had one of the highest among them so it could shatter in 1v1 basically every T10 tank. ALso 113 was pre buff so you didn't have any alternative. You want big dpm heavy - you take 215b. Also it was only heavy tank with special consumables back then. RN this tank even if it didn't get any nerf wouldn't become any better than above average.

Playing this tank doesn't make any sense anymore. You can just take 113 which is straight away better in everything except traverse speed, HE pen and accuaracy that is quite good on it anyways

[distant river]

Tournament meta and random battle meta is very different, WG nerfed it because they didn't want to see it in tournaments again not because they thought it would be overpowered in randoms @stuck acorn

[stuck acorn]

@distant river it wouldn't be overpowered in tournaments anyway. Even if it has special consumables, it has no armor when facing good players, it's too slow to make some fast rush, it has low HP pool so in open fight it will probably get killed really fast. gun and consumables themselves aren't enough to make tank tournament meta. Also whats the point in balancing tank only in terms of tournaments which are played by less than 1% of players and completly ruining it for random battles which are played by basically everyone? i agree that nobody wants to see teams filled with 215b on tourneys, but that wouldn't happen anyways. At least not when Yoh and 113 were left untouched and kran still has it's impenetrable turret and autoreloader

i forgot to tell about it's lack of gun deression which makes it totally useless on some maps and that you get damaged engine and ammorack really often so 2 repairs are must have

@quasi axle IS-4 yes, but not 215b

[remote oriole]

Balancing for tournament meta is such a bad move

[quasi axle]

Actually nerfing is4 was a good move

[bitter fjord]

Nerf yoh both guns

[distant river]

It would be used a lot. E5 no longer has good enough speed and dpm to be used to be aggressive so you are left with either the 215b or 113 for pushes, and the 113 is much more situational.

The game has not being ruined because one tank is now below average. It was not a popular tank before, so the nerf did not hurt many people. It also happens to be a very high skill ceiling tank that isn't accessible for most players on the first place.

@remote oriole It's not a good move but it's understandable at least, and WG clearly have their own priorities.

[uneven narwhal]

Affirmative

[gleaming apex]

Mixa1234#4766 was muted

mathyme#8800 was muted

[winged barn]

Hold up
113 more situational than the 215b? The rear turreted no depression tank?

[stuck acorn]

remember that after buff we have completly overpowered E50M's and E5 didn't get any speed nerf. Combining E5's with 113's dpm might compensate for that.

super charger nerf affected 215b in a same way, or even more becayuse 215b is even slower than E5 which makes completly no sense, at least for me @drowsy plaza

[drowsy plaza]

E5 got speed nerf indirectly due to super speed being cut back.

[distant river]

As soon as the 113 gets rushed it's useless because of the traverse and tourney teams definitely identify and use this, neither can really hold well (113 better but not by too much) and the 113 is only good when pushing in a straight line so I'd class the 215b as less situational. It also gets the consumables to help it, and 7° is still respectable depression even with the awkward turret.

Meds are still a fair way out of meta to replace heavies, and the E5 lost a hell of a lot of traverse which is very important for rushes. If you are holding you take an IS4 or Kran instead of an E5/215b, so again you are back to the 215b being the next obvious choice for pushes. WG didn't want to see that so they made sure the 215b couldn't be used. @stuck acorn

[twin egret]

WG: He's just standing there, Menacingly!
FV215b Meta

[stuck acorn]

you said that E5 is too slow while actually 215b is even slower. traverse doesn't really matter because in tournaments you usually don't take tanks fast enough to circle anyways, maybe except this 1 light tank per team, but still it can be countered by friendly Light/medium tank or other heavy in your team. it also won't be able to avoid getting shot by all tanks. In tournaments risk of getting circled by something is near to 0. Sometimes you need to react and point your gun at enemy quickly, but combined traverse of hull and turret is enough for it even in 113.

[distant river]

They are almost exactly the same speed while the 215b gets actual traverse, and yes traverse is very important in a tournament rush. You won't get circled but you'll lose seconds trying to keep up with the team's focus which loses matches easily. The 113 sure isn't fast enough for that

[stuck acorn]

but 215b goes 15 km/h slower in return, you will lose much more time by going 15 km/h slower than by turning your tank 1s longer. 215b has combined traverse of 75 degrees per second, while 113 has nearly 50 (both with clutch breaking on lvl 7). so basically in 215b's case you will turn to your back in 2 and 1/3 of second while 113 will turn in 3 and 2/5 s. that's a 1s of difference in the longest traverse. In 90 degrees traverce this difference is even smaller (3/5 of second). That's not something that can lose you a game, it's way more likely that you will lose your game because of not getting to a postion fast enough than because of turning 1s too long

[distant river]

15kmph different is top speed with no speed boost included which the 215b has, on top of taking almost twice as long to turn any corner which means you have to slow down for anything that isn't a straight line. 50% better gun traverse is gigantic, and you aren't just turning your turret 90° once in a battle, especially in a brawl. I'm not quite sure if you've ever played a tournament before rn lol

[stuck acorn]

i played tournaments many times, i have few hundred tournament games played mostly T10 season coins and T10 quicks, maybe not PYS as i'm PC player but that's not the point. ik that it's a top speed difference, bun 113 has decent acceleration so even if you slow down while turning you still move faster than 215b. gun traverse itself is worthless because nearly every time you turn, you turn your hull and turret at the same time. yes, you don't turn 90 degrees once per battle but the time differnce is important only when you need to turn to enemy that isn't facing you so i don't think you will loose more than 3 seconds by that.

well 113 more HP and armour that isn't click with ap in random place to pen. Both tanks have their advantages buth 215b wouldn't become a tournament meta. It could be used but still i don't see a place in meta for this tank. I think that it would probably be like 113 in current meta. Used sometimes for some tactics, but it's not a tank commonly used in every battle. Also FV 215b have really weak ammorack that tends to get damaged by nearly every correctly aimed shot, so going into battle with only 1 repair kit is really risky @gilded pebble

[gilded pebble]

I think I have to agree with Honourless. At higher levels the 113 really kinda hurts dynamically-- it sucks to brawl in, takes forever to focus a target, can't HESH the old E5[reminder: HE negates reactive armour], can't turn, is smaller and thus not as good for HPShare...and dies much faster thanks to it not having reactive/megaspeed which allows the thing to reverse its way out of bad spots. EDIT: Also, DPM tanks tend to be the first to get focused, alongside clippers. That reactive armour REALLY helps the 215b, and I don't think you're appreciating that enough.

[distant river]

It's faster to get to one position right in front of it or with a small turn, but anywhere else the 215b beats it. By gun traverse I meant the total maximum traverse the gun can get so when turning both the hull and the turret. The difference is huge in an actual organised rush that you really don't get in quick tours because almost every decent team does stupid stuff like 7bcs for memes. 3 seconds is a big difference and that's a very conservative estimate, and on top of that you would almost always take a 113 in a pair or more so that's double that time you are losing when you are actually in a rush.

[stuck acorn]

i can agree but not fully. 113 will get faster to most of positions, only those that you need to turn really a lot, basically every few seconds may be reached by 215b faster. As i said quicks are just a part of my experienced, for last year i was playing nearly only coins because i realized that i can earn more by sacrificing same amount of time for randoms in T8 prem than in quick. 3 seconds is a time that you can lose at most when enemies will completly suprise you. usually you will need to turn just once and then you will have enemies in front of you for most of the game.

The thing is that you told about 2 situations, while you have only 1 speed boost. If you decide to use it to get to the position, you won't be able to use it to run/rush later. But if you decide to keep it then you will get to position much slower. Also as i said earlier. getting turbo + reactive armor means you have only 1 repair kit on a tank that tends to get it's ammoracked damaged and set on fire. and as you rae talking about these 3 seconds - there is nop way 215b would be able to run away in this time either

[gilded pebble]

The 113 will only get to positions that are very far away faster. With a mega speed the 215b accelerates much faster and handles terrain much better.

Also, the thing is, if a 215b gets caught pushed on by 3 Yohs or Krans, it can put on a mega speed and reactive, run, and live. The 113 just dies. And if you want to make the 3 second argument— well, your 113 is dead within those 3 seconds to good focus fire with clippers.

[distant river]

Your "you'd only turn once then the reds are in front of you" point is only if you are using the 113 to hold a position which is the total opposite of the 113s job. You want to use them to punch into a corner or position and wreak as much damage as they can pushing hard into the reds. You can guarantee the reds will fight back by trying to brawl it out with the 113s. In some positions the 113s work because they can get there fast enough to keep the reds in the open and being farmed. Apart from that the 215b beats it in every aggressive situation, and since the E5 lost its dpm and turret traverse the 215b would become the go to tank for rushes. It would be a harder decision than the old E5vs113 so would have been more varied, but that's not what WG wanted, they made it pretty clear they didn't want to see it at all.

Also reactive has kinda limited use, in theory it's good but you have to sacrifice a repair kit for it, and the reds can change focus fairly easily. It also doesn't work against HE so in a 215b brawl you can HESH it for full damage it's just more risky than AP

[stuck acorn]

we basically totally lost the point of discussion. "Was the 215b good decision?" it wasn't. you proved me that 215b would be used in tournaments, but i still don't think it would be some broke meta tank that you can't counter in any way like it was with E5 + kran. You said that it's not what wargaming wanted, but teh question is "so what they even wanted?" they want to exclude the heav tank class from tourneys? they nerfed bascially all heavies so most of them are excluded from meta. Only ones that left are Yoh and Wz 113, and from those that were nerfed maus and kran still may be somtimes used for holding. If they wanted medium meta back, they would nerf them harder and all of them

@distant river so bascially as i said, they didn't exclude heavies from meta, but what's the point of change then? you won't see 3 krans, 5 IS-4s or 4 E5's anymore but other tanks like Yoh and 113 will just replace them and nothing will change. if they want some real variety then they need to rebalance the whole class. It's been a long time since i ever saw in tournament tanks like basically any TD except 268 or Ho-ri, IS-7, E100, Vk 72, leo 1, patton, fv 4202 etc. maybe it's time to give those some good times?

[distant river]

I don't think it was a good decision, but it was a justified decision from WGs point of view. Heavies are for sure not out of the meta, the E5 and 215b are just dropping out of it. It was about time to move away from 5 IS4 2 E5 and it's a nice change really, just a shame the IS4 didn't get hit harder because then teams would have to put much more thought into composition and you'd get much more variety.

[jagged crescent]

You guys sure love your thereoticals. But since I see a lot more 113s being used in contrast to 215bs in comp, I’d say the 8.2 nerf was overkill on the 215b and e5. It makes sense to bring the e5 out of meta but the 215b was never more than a niche tank to begin with. Now it’s just irrelevant.

[stuck acorn]

well 215b used to be the meta tank back in the day and everybody wanted to play it, but these times are gone for around 2 years now. As we all said, 215b nerf was unnecessary, this tank was already underperforming in randoms but we can also understand WG's point. And no matter what we say they will do what they want anyways

[distant river]

I am an exceedingly theoretical person 😂 But yeah the 215b hasn't really had a chance to be used since it was ultra meta. The E5 just did its job better and when the E5 got nerfed hard so did the 215b so the 113 took it's place. If I was going to change something on the 215b that was just nerfed I'd have taken away the stupid consumables and probably nerfed the hp down so that it did act more like a heavium rather than totally outclassing both heavies and meds for its jobs. It wouldn't have had as big an impact on randoms but would have made it much less prevalent in tournaments.

On a bit of a sidenote I still don't think anyone knows why WG don't want to see the 215b in the tournament meta even slightly, my guess would be marketing and not promoting that line through tournaments because it's not noob friendly but it seems kinda extreme that they'd do that just to discourage people from that line slightly.

[jagged crescent]

Marketing and WG COMP are not terms you just mix together 💀

[stuck acorn]

maybe i'll be little bit to harsh, but for me this line isn't only not noob friendly, for me this whole line except Black Prince is one big Sh***y garbage. Starting from T5, you get useless churchill one with flat paper turret, meh gun and bad mobility, then you get to meh churchill 7 which is kind of playble but still not a thing that you would like to play more battles than necessary ones to research next tier. Then we have OP Black prince and pointless caernarvon. I don't really see any point for this tank after releasing this whole big bunch of super strong hull down tanks which outclass it in every way, bad alpha, with bad armor and not that good mobility, for me it's hard to compare even to T32, not even mentioning T26E5, T54E2 or AX. And finally the worst out of this whole bunch of garbage - the conqueror. Who the heck thought that giving a T9 heavy turret armor that can be penetrated by T7's is a good idea, it's also pretty slow and don't even have gun depression which would at least give us some way to use it's strong gun and make this grind less painfull. And then all of the sudden totally randomly after grinding trough 9 normal tanks you get a rear turreted one. That makes totally no sense. For me this line needs some rebalance

[distant river]

Gonna be honest I skipped through that line with fxp when the octopus camo event started so I can't really offer my opinions on it too much, but from facing them it seems like they need a pretty big rebalance

[kind mortar]

Lost count of what day is it, but please buff the maushen... it doesn’t compete with all the other tier 9 heavys...

[stuck acorn]

maushen is specific tank. when dropped to T8 you are a terminator that can just go in and don't even worry about getting destroyed, but at T9-10 it's just a free dmg. This tank needs to be balanced out, because when you just buff it withpout any other changes it will be completly broken when facing T8's. i would give it more armor on the side of the turret but less on the front and remove the coupola or make it way stronger. I would also take off around 200 HP from it. It would force people to angle their turret and actually made that effective, but it would also make it's turret a butter when not angled. removal of HP should make it also easier to kill when it's top tier

[versed tide]

If the side turret armor was buffed it would be much better

[kind mortar]

Well, even the e75 and vk45B meets tier8’s and i don’t think they have a much easier time going through those tanks 😂😂
The maushen struggles to keep up mainly to those 2 tanks, it has a superheavy role, leading to the maus, but it doesn’t feel that great when used even against same tier enemies.
Dont use it that often so don’t have a actual opinion on how to fix it, i like the idea of a cupola to balance out, but on the other hand they should make the turret actually effective when angled, the lowerplate is garbage, but it’s fine considering it’s a step before the maus, it teaches you to be more afraid of showing your pants to the enemies

[jagged crescent]

mauschen's good as it is

[stuck acorn]

i wouldn't say so, it really need some rebalance, tank that can be borderline overpowered or worthless depending just on a matchmaking can't be called good

[jagged crescent]

It has a weakspot that can be penned by tier 8s (cupola and lfp), it's slow so it can be out-manuevered, but it also has sufficient enough armor and firepower in which it can reasonably hold its own against other heavy tanks.

If you know how to play it, then it's good as it is.

[versed tide]

the side of the turret is terrible tho

[drowsy plaza]

Yes terrible tank I could only get 68% in it.

[remote oriole]

Personal statistics don‘t prove a point about a tank as such 🙃

[drowsy plaza]

Sure the LFP and Cupola are an issue but if you angle a bit you can bait shots like a boss.

[ivory quiver]

I liked the mauschen

[drowsy plaza]

@remote oriole yes and no, to a point do they prove they can be played well.

[stray verge]

Mauschen is below average I would say.

It is tier 9 tho which is a well balanced tier without a single bad tank.

[drowsy plaza]

@stray verge you missed the PTA, powercreep poster child.

[jagged crescent]

Not every tank can be above average or average. But every tank can be sufficiently functional, which the mauschen is.

[leaden flare]

Mäuschen is like the worst t9 heavy imo
Compared to the other 2 Germans it lacks everything for example
Gun on e75 feels better
E75 can sidescrape
Middle turret instead of rear turret
Mobility on e75 is also better imo
The lfp on e75 isn't even a weakspot anymore same tier heavys struggle penning it if done slightly right

VK is a slightly weaker e75
Smaller lfp with less Armor
Rear turret
Not too good side Armor but workable
Smaller
I personally liked it a lot

They could be the same but fighting that thing always was just a joke and not hard at all😂

[junior forge]

what bout vk

[nimble zodiac]

Mauschen can sidescrape better, and the guns are the same, but lemme check aim stats and whatnot

Mauschen has slightly worse dispersion on movement, but their guns are basically identical, and chen has a bit less DPM

[twin egret]

Pray you don't get tracked lol

[remote oriole]

The point that a tank can be played well is a gift and really needn‘t be made

[stuck acorn]

mauschen is crap, ngl, but i think that there are tanks that need a buff/nerf way more than this tank rn, for example whole british heavyh line, american medium line (maybe except the X, it already got the nice buff), ferdinand, leo pta or centurion 1

[gaunt coyote]

I'd say that the lower front plates are quite the same for the 2 tanks in terms of armour.
Personally really like both of them 🤷‍♀️

[patent shuttle]

tiny little sht weakspot

[stuck acorn]

because both of them are good, but i would change their side armor so VK has 120 and E75 has 100

but i'm curious why WG still did noyhing about Cent 1. Cent 7/1 abd fv 4202 that were already decent got buffed, but centurion one which is always the worst/the worst except sta 1 in #devs-answers charts for many updates now still was left untouched. Even if they gave it 10 mm of turret armor few updates ago it didn't change anything, this tank is as bad is it was and it really needs some changes

[fossil aurora]

I agree. The Fv301 is basically an improved centurion in basically every respect.
Although I don't really know how to buff it, as if we improve the turret's armor, we'll make Caernarvon, another tank that also suffers a lot in this tier, even more useless.
Therefore, I believe that both Caernarvon and Centurion need to be improved.

[quasi axle]

<@&481447501690568709>

[kind mortar]

also a quick note, will they look at the vindicator? because currently it's comparable to a tier 6 rather than a tier 7 td ahah

[kind mortar]

and i think whoever has it, can agree with me that it's arguably one of the worst tier 7 td's due to the combination of: size, lack of armor, gun dep, gun ammo (only heat and he so oh boi brick wall = goodbye projectile)

[nimble zodiac]

<@&481447501690568709> ^
😎

[gleaming apex]

Geriavarázsdinnye#1937 was banned

[prisma jetty]

Even in the dev charts STA is better than the cent. It’s quite sad that the first real MBT is so bad compared to pretty much everything else

[drowsy plaza]

@kind mortar the Vindicator has very troll armor if you don’t sit still. It’s got large alpha and while it’s inferior to the SU-152 Derp Gun in premium HEAT pen and alpha on cheap HEAT and HE, it’s still a formidable opponent if played to its strengths.

[kind mortar]

yea but still, in a hypotetical tier 7 td ranking, how low would you put it in the list

[drowsy plaza]

Probably third last.

But I don’t like turretless TD’s or Derp TD’s - so it has 2 strikes on it already from me.

[remote oriole]

And… who are the other two unfortunate souls in the bottom three?

[drowsy plaza]

See PM

Do I think the Vindi could get a buff, yeah, the alpha and Pen on the HE should be at least equal to the SU-152 Derp. Same with alpha on Cheap HEAT. It’s got the T49 ‘problem’ of no AP/APCR so destructible objects will be an issue - and it’s not as nimble as the 49 to just ‘go around’, so I think the HEAT/HE buff offsets that.

[remote oriole]

Hands down, I think Vindicator is hit or miss. Either you derp everyone to death and troll-bounce everything or you keep missing and get penetrated (or derped to death wie HE in the sides). The gundepression doesn‘t make matters easier as you sometimes really struggle to get your gun to bear on the enemy.

I personally think that the gundepression and the sides are strong balancing features that will ensure that the tank won‘t become op even if for example the front armour or the dpm is being buffed

[orchid grove]

The question is, do you really want a tank with 640/960 alpha at tier VII to be competitive?

[kind mortar]

i can personally count the number of battles i've been top tier with it with a hand, but i digress.
the thing is that i personally want it to be at least enjoyable, because currently compared to a su-152 it doesn't have much margin of action, the frontal armor is pretty cute and messy, but against someone that either know how to aim, or have more than 190mm of pen it gets canceled.
strongly agree with comment below

[remote oriole]

looks at Smasher… looks at SU-152

To be honest tier seven balance is a huge mess already, and I regard it as a „fun“ tier, aka where you just do non-sense or club everyone to death or do other yolo stuff. I think it would fit right in

[stuck acorn]

2 or 3 updates ago STA was actually worse, this is why i told that it's worst/worst except STA

[stuck acorn]

For me t7 needs huge rebalance of all tanks to atcually make them work against those broken ones, but still not ruin T6 even more

[stuck acorn]

<@&481447501690568709> some trash to ban

[gleaming apex]

TR3FL1K#6244 was banned

[quick lichen]

Never ending

[autumn zodiac]

Mhm

[golden turret]

Dunno why people straight up just come in and break the rules like that. It legitimately hurts me brain trying to understand why.

[golden lava]

who think the M-VI-Yoh is too strong ?

[stuck acorn]

Many people, but it's actually not overperforming. For me it's little bit overcooked, but that's not a game breaking factor. It can stay as it is/get slightly nerfed. But as i said it's not overpermorfing in any way so i bet WG won't take any actions

[leaden flare]

kinda would like to get a gun arc change on badger or some better armor behind the tracks
could nerf smth in return but the gun arc on it is pretty horrible just as the side armor

[orchid grove]

Solid armor, -10 gun depression, and either great DPM or essentially 900 alpha. A tank with the firepower of a Yoh simply shouldn’t have as much armor as the YoH does, especially with a turret

[uneven narwhal]

ahem

10 deg GD
Strong Turret
(cupolas exist yes, but they are small and hard to hit when the yoh only shows itself for 3s)

120mm gun: 900 alpha in under 2s, people cant even react to that, it deals its damage reliably due to the fact that it has good gun handling for such a gun
105mm gun: 3k DPM, hulldown
:wazowskibruh:, Its just a batchat with way more DPM, armor and GD

[full token]

And less mobility than a Batchat

[scarlet fjord]

and camo
and size (harder to hit)
and traverse
and view range etc
I get comparing a 50B but a Yoh?

[uneven narwhal]

I'll just leave this here then

And yes, IG my comparison to batchat was stupid

[scarlet fjord]

my take is that its win rate is high due to advanced players skipping to the yoh with free xp etc noobs generally dont have that kind of resources or bad players in general
not saying the tank is fine i wouldn't put it on the same level as an M4 54 though not even close but thats my opinion

[full token]

Enough time has passed that it won’t just be the ones with free xp who get it. The tank’s gun is still broken and that does need change even if the tank doesn’t come at the top in all the stats

[scarlet fjord]

True a lot of time has passed already i still think that the advanced players rushing the line somewhat jump started the stats to a degree but the tank is definitely kind of cracked
its not really broken or op more like slightly overcooked on the firepower
and it has really good armor for that firepower also gun depression overcooked indeed

[remote oriole]

The winrate hasn‘t been declining, it‘s increasing (the relative winrate, that is)

[jolly panther]

Any chance the centurion I gets buffed? Or at least gets put somewhere in line with other meds? Maybe extra dpm or something, right now it's beat by RAAC and Defender ones in legit every aspect; armor, speed, power/weight ratio, credit coefficient, repair cost, everything

It's sitting at 48%wr under the other two, at 57/58%

Even the lower tier Comet has ~500 more DPM than the Cent I, I'd say leave the armor and speed but buff DPM, even the FV301 had 400 extra DPM and that thing goes 20km/h more

[orchid grove]

The first place I would start with nerfing the Yoh is the obnoxiously thick front axles

[remote oriole]

I find it annoying every time. Who thought that you shouldn‘t be able to track and damage them? It‘s the same deal with the K-91

[nimble zodiac]

Ew you did not just say auto-ricochet when hit

[scarlet fjord]

at least u can HESH the lower plate
but i think for that firepower it needs serious armor nerfs

[full token]

Not a very big lower plate though

[jagged crescent]

Nerfing the axles would be good then

[dense oyster]

Personally the Centurion 1 at tier 8 should get HE in the form of RU251's HEP . just buff the HE's to say 105mm. (like the Vicker CR) or even just 90mm.
not historically accurate but meah, it would set players up for the Cent 7/1
giving it more HE pen than the fv301 (42mm HE) would also make it more interesting.
Cent 7/1 and FV4202 both have 105mm of base HE pen and on top have HESH (210mm)

[ivory quiver]

Does anybody feel like the tvp’s reload is too long at times

[full token]

It’s long but that’s to balance out the big clip it has. Otherwise a tank with mobility and a fast reloading big clip would be too good

[kind mortar]

my opinions:
-i agree with nerfing the Yoh's front axles, they are too thick and they reduce the probabilities of both lower plate shots, and even tracking+damage shots.
-the centurion 1 is currently worse in almost every aspect compared to the 301, i really hope wg changes the dpm difference, giving better dpm to the bigger tank (considering it has way more space for crew and all the modules), and giving fewer dpm to a smaller and faster tank (as it can relocate way easier than the centurion).

[twin egret]

I wonder when update 8.2's stats will come out

[full token]

With 8.3 stats it seems

[fickle light]

I want KV-4 buff

I want KV-4 buff

[kind mortar]

obj263 did not deserve such massive gun accuracy nerf
to respond to message down there:
-it never really needed the armour buff, anyone agrees?

[dark pike]

now it misses at point blank range which is absurd

[minor minnow]

With the armor it received undoing that nerf will break the tank

[jolly panther]

Fully agree, giving it baby HESH would make the tank more fun and different probably, and also prepare players for the big boy HESH on the following tier
EDIT Caernarvon too maybe? Just buff the HE pen for both to ~100mm, increase the price and that's it

[kind mortar]

the problem is that the first centurions, never had any gun bigger than the OQF 20 pounder, which is a 84mm calibre, and that calibre never really had effective or good HE
even if we gave it a high perforation he round, the 90mm of the ru has just barely 102mm of pen, so a 84mm could reach same values, but as the centurion doesnt face enemy rear armour so often it would be useless anyway
i do admit tho that it would be cool to have this resourse in the tank rather than the current he

[drowsy plaza]

Because Blitz follows history so well?

[jolly panther]

I mean... you know you can pen a lot of tank sides with 105mm right? Even heavy tanks?

But anyway, let's say we don't give the Centurion I better HE, how else would we get it buffed? Giving it more armor would just make it a RAAC or Defender, more speed or acceleration would maybe fit since it has the lesser armor, OR faster reload so it stands out more with the DPM. I wouldn't touch alpha since that low alpha kind of makes it special, and I wouldn't want to sacrifice accuracy/aim time for like 20-25 more alpha.

What do you think could work?@kind mortar

[kind mortar]

personally i would:
-reduce fv301 dpm and give cent more dpm, it's mandatory move
-increase he pen to 80/90mm (optional but could be a good beginning in the hesh gun career of t9/10)
-almost forgot, for the love of god increase that forehead from 52mm to at least 72mm or 90mm

i would not touch other armor values (other than that forehead stripe) nor mobility at all

[jolly panther]

It seems like the best option would be to buff reload time a bit for both Cent and Caernarvon, and I agree with the turret roof armor buff; however buffing HE pen would mean WG would have to change HE pen for Centurion I, Caernarvon, FV301, Cent 7/1, Vickers CR and Conqueror
Since they all have that same OQF 20-pdr Type A gun it would have to go up for all of them, not to mention then there's the next-tier Type B gun for some of them, that would then require a HE pen buff too...

HE in the end might be the wrong buff we're looking for

I know, give cent an extra provision slot for more tea & biscuits

[kind mortar]

if the only tanks that can use either type A and B of that 20 pounder are tier 8 and above, i see no major problems, cause the 20 OQF is not that great and you honestly may want to use it only in the centurion and fv301 (as its their best gun available).
I have an exam today so i don't have that much free time to check personally check whoever can use those gun, so i'll follow your tank list

[jolly panther]

They are mostly tiers 8+, also I didn't mention the AT variants on the Charioteer, AT7, AT15 & Tortoise (AT7 being the only tier 7 of them)

I'd say if HE pen buff was an option, I'd buff the 20pds guns to at least 60-70mm, the following caliber 32pdr to 80-90 and the next 105mm guns to 105mm, in line with vickers

Edit: you're really, REALLY not penning much HE even into the backs of tanks with that 40mm pen, except for an occasional Lorraine or AMX CDC or something, but even the american tanks that are considered "weak" on the backside have 50mm on average (tier 8)

[drowsy plaza]

I don’t think the HE pen increase is a good idea. It just makes the FV301 better. IMHO the Cent I needs both a DPM buff, and a speed boost. Bump speed to 50 - same as Chimera, so the Defender MkI and 5/1 have the turret armor but not the speed advantage. Then up the DPM to 2411 with rammer and both foods (same as Panther II) it can’t hold hulldown then due to turret but it can relocate and has DPM enough so folks can’t yolo it.

I think that gives it a decent niche so it’s no longer powercrept, and not broken OP but playable and doesn’t replace any specific tank in the Brit line.

I’d also bump Caern speed to 40kph leaving the rest as is.

[full token]

Yesss, 50kph sounds good

[jolly panther]

So speed & dpm buff? That sounds good imo, no need to complicate stuff with HE rebalancing and you wouldn't just turn the cent into another RAAC or defender with an armor buff - you'd make it a less-armored, faster version of the three with a better gun

Premium tanks were never supposed to be better than tech tree ones but oh well, here we are; but with a DMP/mobility buff you'd at least make it stand out from the three cents 🙂

[stuck acorn]

i can't really agree on this one. Caernarvon was powercrept to the level where simple 40 km/h won't work since it doesn't have any armor after all. It woudl just make it copy of current Cent 1 but with better hull armor and little bit better gun. I'd change the gun of caernarvon so even if it doesn't have that much armor and mobility it has way better gun that other T8 heavies. maybe give it 210 alpha without touching the reload? It would give it around 2,8k dpm when fully equiped. Or just give it better eload without touching alha so it will be T8 version of BP. This change would make it stand out when compared to other T8 heavies and it would become worth to play

[full token]

<@&481447501690568709> harmful link

[gleaming apex]

turb0#7930 was muted

[winged barn]

Get the tank with high dpm and the 2nd highest hp pool in tier 8 up to 50kmh? Lol
Great plan

[scarlet fjord]

hmmmm

[full token]

is7 looks sick now

[stuck acorn]

it wouldn't be able to reach it anyways. This is why i reccomend to give it great gun and leave rest as it is

[wanton zinc]

Any comment on such beautiful matchmakings ?

[uneven narwhal]

1. Wrong Channel
2. Imagine complaining abt MM
3. 300 dmg in the ISU pfff
   Your teammates should be complaining about you

[orchid grove]

You can’t really complain about matchmaking if you’re not exactly helping

[twilit crystal]

also the damage was 8k for one team and 10k for the other @orchid grove probably on the left side of your distribution tbh

[jagged crescent]

you should ask this when you didn't do less than half a shot of damage

[scarlet fjord]

you cant say ur team was crap when your doing half your tanks average damage per shot

[orchid grove]

It is. The average for my model was the winning team having ~30% of their HP left and 4.6 tanks remaining.

[twilit crystal]

would you present that at a job interview? I would totally do it if I made it 😂 @orchid grove

[gleaming apex]

Assassinko2020#0934 was muted

[scarlet fjord]

Hmmmm

[quasi axle]

Seems to be a hit skin thing considering there's a shell hit mark right there
Or maybe that's heat idk

[nimble zodiac]

😳

It's almost like being closer to it means you are shooting a plate angled downward from a higher angle, making it more effective

[winged barn]

Lol

[remote oriole]

Don‘t trust the armour highlighter

[scarlet fjord]

i was thinking the side of the turret seems bs
not the lower plate that would of been red even before the buffs

[remote oriole]

Yeah, true. I find this buff unnecessary and outrageous. Especially the lower side armour buff

[stuck acorn]

btw wargaming kinda made us dirty with this IS-7 "buff". enemy was leo with heat on calibrated, i'll show you for 10 minutes how it look on armor highlight, btw spoiler - it's neraly fully red. Still you can pen it's turret really easly. You just need to shoot near the gun

that's how it looks like from shooters perspective

[jagged crescent]

Sooo… this is just a skill issue

[stuck acorn]

no, i don't even care about it. All i wanted to say is that armor highlighting is wrong on this tank and you shouldn't trust it

[jagged crescent]

schkkeeell

[scarlet fjord]

they need to fix that...
i didnt get penetrated today in the turret so i couldn't say they just looked at me saw a literal tomato and then looked away xd

[stuck acorn]

most of people in this game are unexperienced and 100% trust armor highlight. That's an obvious reaction

[dense oyster]

Laughs in Ho Ri Premium AP

[nocturne mauve]

Lmao of course updated tank models were given to heavies first

#WorldOfHeaviesBlitz

[quasi axle]

vickers noises

[dense oyster]

WZ 120 G FT noises

[nocturne mauve]

Wow what’s the point of a light tank, wohb has no strategy apart from playing heavy tanks and abusing your HP

[nimble zodiac]

It's almost like the quarter-size maps are simply not fit for fast tanks meant for spotting, without making the spotting mechanic seem like a joke 😳

It's hard to accommodate light tanks in such a design, like how it's hard to make some tanks balanced by a stat because it vastly changes its effectiveness

[stuck acorn]

i've already talked about this problem before on this channel. spooting mechanic just doesn't work correctly. I proposed solution which was basically about massivly decreasing heavy tanks view range, and slightly decreasing view range of medium tanks/tds so camo will be more important and light tanks will get their job. in return light tanks would get their guns nerfed. For me that would make way more sense than system we have now

[twin egret]

FV4202 can pen the upper frontal glacis plate of the E 50 M it used to be unable to do so lol. E 50 M drivers get so surprised when they get penned

[dense oyster]

laughs with Type 62 at tier 7 with HEAT of 275mm

[stuck acorn]

.

[nimble zodiac]

laughs with BLTZ9000 at tier 6 with HEAT of 284mm

Truly.

[dense oyster]

balanced

[stoic light]

This is7 buff is a disgrace, it needs more armor.

[prisma jetty]

If you think the IS-7 needs more armor at this point, you aren't playing it properly

[golden turret]

Wait it actually has 284? That’s so high bro

[burnt cedar]

Not enough Lol needs 300 minimum 😐

[stoic light]

This is massive 🧢, is7 needs 100 mm more of armor

[dense oyster]

no no, it needs at least 350mm or armour. and the same reload as the SU-122-54 and have the Ho Ri's penetration stats (310mm, 380mm) 🤣

[languid bridge]

Just shoot the huge lower plate lmao

[twin egret]

WoT PC learned from WoTb about how to balance the Yohs

[foggy aurora]

We are yet to see the actual characteristics of the vehicles so don’t judge so early

[safe rapids]

yeah, the upcoming t8 premium looks like its a better t32 in every way

[hearty steeple]

Well I mean they ended up with yoh like guns anyways with the Czech heavies anyways

[versed tide]

Pc auto aim can be useful at times

[fickle light]

I want KV-4 gun mantlet buff:/

[mental pasture]

The PC auto aim is surely what gives the biggest advantage for a light tank player. Aiming in move becomes extremely easier with just one click.

[uneven narwhal]

PC Auto Aim is surprisingly more useful than one might think

[uneven narwhal]

Because it aims at the central mass of the tank, not weak points
If you bounce a shot like that, just simply dont use it lol

[leaden flare]

Central is a horrible focus point because that's where most likely the gun will be

[twin egret]

Wth

[median venture]

guys i need leo 1 buff pls

[kind mortar]

leo is fine as it is, if you need a buff prob you're not using it correctly

[indigo knot]

@orchid grove was E100 nerfed.....
Like effective turret armour due to slope

[drowsy topaz]

Yep, and it still now, God I once had a wet dream of it getting nerfed, but hen wake up to smash my alarm and can't get the dream again

Just, die already, I hate the thing

[stuck acorn]

bruh that was in training room. It was a test to check the turret armor, so why i should shoot the lower plate when i want to test out the turret armor...

[languid bridge]

I was just saying the easiest place to pen lmao instead of worrying about the turret which was quite hard to pen even before the update

[exotic goblet]

lmao of course everyone knows to pen the lower plate. But sometimes the lower plate is hidden so u have to shoot the turret

[languid bridge]

big brain

[unique scaffold]

hi is there any devs available please?

[twin egret]

Why

What is the problem specifically

[silk hamlet]

it's crates honestly what did you expect

yeah that's random drop chances for ya

[twin egret]

Lol what lmao

[quasi axle]

Don't delete this please this is too good

[real bison]

Well with the 907 and Kpf50T coming soon, they could replace the Leopard

Don’t get me wrong, the Leopard will still be incredibly powerful with the most accurate MT gun and best stock pen of any tier X MT (shared with the 4202 which now goes 60kph and has prammo HESH) and anyone who ignores a Leopard 1 is practically dead already

[mental pasture]

Auto aim is no miracle, lmao. If you want to have a chance to hit moving targets, rely on the auto-aim. If you want to penetrate the target, either shoot something soft with auto-aim or aim manually

[uneven narwhal]

I find myself using auto aim plenty of times
When I'm running away, just lock onto trying to shoot you and fire away, it hits more often than not
Also when you are chasing lights, your manual aim can be messed up a bit, but with the whole rear being paper, you got easy chances of penning

[mental pasture]

<@&481447501690568709> we've got a scammer

[gleaming apex]

Bálint ツ#9785 was banned

[gleaming apex]

gamer tony#8913 was muted

[drowsy plaza]

Please ignore non balance questions it makes clean up easier.

[gray cosmos]

VINDICATOR needs one or two more gun depression!

[orchid thicket]

I think t49 will be better Standard apcr ammo instead of heat. Becouse t8 t9 have lot of spaced armour. Heat and he didnt have a chance.

[twin egret]

640 alpha on a light tank is toxic enough, no ty

[prisma jetty]

It’s 560, but the penetration is enough

[full token]

Yes it will be better, but it doesn’t need to be

[terse tinsel]

the other gun needs pen buff on the t49

[orchid thicket]

T9 and t10 have apcr in the Line

[remote oriole]

And that‘s bad

[vital basalt]

because first of all T92E1 and Sheri's guns are not "derp" guns,you cant HE other med/lights for 780 damage like you do in T49,you do 680 with them,yes its still lot but considering that both has +14s reload,ehhhh no

[tough temple]

In WOT there's something they call as semi-derp. It hits hard enough to remove a good amount of your HP and cause fear factor, but would never hit kill something from it's own tier. There's the SU-100Y as example

Btw, might want to play the SU again, it's a nice time to show off my premiums once the tech tree premiums are gone

[stuck acorn]

bruh you are wrong. Derp guns are howtizers - guns with huge alpha but slow shells, horrific accuaracy, gun handling and aim time. They also have strong HE shells and short gun barrel. No matter if it can one shot or not derp is a derp. For example VK 28's 105mm can't one shot but it's still a derp. Same goes for T49. The thing you want to call a semi derp is just a normal gun but with big alpha damage for example Jgpz E100, SU-100Y or ISU 152. These guns can't be classified as a derp because they don't base on their HE shells, neither they have horrific accuaracy or slow shells. Even if they have huge alpha they still can't be classified as a derp

[ruby pendant]

Dear DEV
I want u to fix the faking jgdpze100 line cause its too OP and ez to get

[thick rover]

how fix

[versed tide]

The only two tanks that could be considered op are the jagdtiger and jpanther

[rancid trellis]

Nerf the waffle so tier 8-9 aren’t absolutely over run

[mental pasture]

I mean, who stated this?

[uneven narwhal]

Jageroo is far from OP

[ruby pendant]

Why?

[mental pasture]

In fact, it's easy to counter in open spaces, ineffective armor at medium and close range, the cannon struggles to aim at moving targets and the reload is rather long

Masteries and vehicle stats are not directly involved, it's more like 60% RNG and 40% skill
I mastered T14 around 4 or 5 times and it's actually balanced, perhaps actually even way below the expectations of a heavy tank

[ruby pendant]

But get M of this is too ez

[uneven narwhal]

One mastery does not make a tank overpowered
People have gotten masteries in the worst tanks in the game, did that make them OP?

[ruby pendant]

Reload 11s rough amor and more than 400 alpha dmg per shot

[mental pasture]

I suppose you're making a little mistake, read again you comment, I'm giving you the change to fix the error

@uneven narwhal but he was talking about the line, not specifically about the Jpanther 2

[uneven narwhal]

I assume he's talking about the Jagdpanther 2

[ruby pendant]

Ok thanks very much and sorry cause i wasted your time.The reason i say that cause i can 1v1 with a heavy tank by a tank destroyer.Thanks for answer me.(Ferdinand)

[mental pasture]

Well, Ferdinand is the black sheep of the line. Much people make fun about it because it's a heavily armored TD that can be penetrated easily by every single tier 8 (unless T49)

[outer lake]

I think the AMX AC 48 needs a buff considering how it performs compared to other T8 TDs

[scarlet fjord]

Lmao the only stats that some tanks have worse is spotting and that's cuz amx is supposed to be aggressive playstyle not camping

[mental pasture]

And number of players too, but that's kinda irrelevant

[north valley]

100mm for dpm and accuracy, 115mm for damage but less accuracy

Maybe this is bad idea

[short finch]

what was the original message? changing a gun on a tank?

[north valley]

Someone said, t62a should have 2 guns

[empty nexus]

Dpm buff would fix everything, but at the same time people grind the Foch line but don’t know how to play it. It’s meant to be an aggressive Flanking TD, not a sit-at-the-back TD

[vital basalt]

Dpm buff yes, but also it needs better side armor,40mm now means all +121mm guns can overmatch it basically, 1/2 of the all tier 8 heavies and almost all TDs, even if you want to play aggressive you can't cuz everyone can destroy ur tracks with 1 shot. Even like 45mm would be enough lmao

[stuck acorn]

it's just a terminology

[remote oriole]

Derp guns is a game-related term that was initially used for excessively effective guns that could even be used effectively by the worst players by virtue of dealing a lot of damage, and as such became synonymous with high alpha guns in WoT.

Another possible view is that derp guns stand for unreliable guns (by accuracy), which usually tend to be high alpha guns.

(Edited to reflect the main explanations better).

[stiff fable]

Honestly we need a new match making, I just fought a game on dead rail. I was playing the vickers cr, there’s 4 meds/lights on the oppositions team and 2 in mine including me. The enemy team also consisted of an AMX 50B and an OBJ 260 which both have medium play styles. Meanwhile my heavies were a mauschen and an e100. Now clearly most of you will see the problem here, in the end the meds flanked us as I didn’t even try to contest med side as I would’ve just got clapped and we completely lost the game. I have seen this happen in many games and I think it’s a bit silly how this is still able to happen. Thanks and hope this cna get sorted some time is the future.

[gleaming apex]

IITkaregaPotatoeee#2747 was muted

[stuck acorn]

This is why we need to divide main classes to roles like in wot PC. For example:
heavies to:

• super heavy
• support heavy
• assault heavy
  etc

and then base matchmaking on these roles instead of main classes

[stiff fable]

I agree tanks like the 50B should not be classed in the same category as a maus and e100

[scarlet fjord]

did they change the IS-7 ammo rack cuz u cant even damage it right now lol

[mental pasture]

Technically the game already have this. Most of the times when you see either a Maus, E100 or IS-4 or tanks related to this role there will be another one on the enemy team in an equal number

[quasi axle]

huh?

[golden turret]

I like how you think that getting a mastery makes you think that your tank is op

[prisma jetty]

If you think the Ferdi is strong, play the JagPanther II

[golden turret]

Ferdinand is dog water

[winged barn]

Wait a minute
The titan 57 thing has 160 ap alpha and 175 HE alpha

Big brain plays will be made with HE and its 30 pen

Just leave HE off if you are going to make it that worthless

[nimble zodiac]

It's because it's AMX 12t's gun, which also has 175 HE alpha

Other than gun depression, AMX 12t is just better lolol

[terse tinsel]

all old amx autoloaders have trash he alpha, i also think that should be changed now that most new autoloaders get their normal he alpha for the gun caliber if not more like the tvps.

[next nacelle]

i gotta admit i think the amx 13 57 is pretty well balanced xD

[bronze raptor]

Do u think people who play WOT b are smart

[scarlet fjord]

jpanther 2 makes the ferd look like tier 7

[stuck acorn]

ferd was meant to be more armored alternative for JP 2, but it pays with mobility and 1 more second of reload for it, so i would just buff it's armor to the point where it can't be penned with AP basically everywhere. I would leave the lower plate as a weakspot, made upper plate of hull around 220 so it's not click&pen anymore and buff superstructure to around 240-250 flat so it can bounce even golds when angled. I would also buff those angled front parts to make angling possible. That would be enough to conpensate for it's lack of mobility

[scarlet fjord]

jpanther 2 hull down if u show only the upper part of the superstructure ur armor is better than the ferd plus ur as fast as a med with great traverse and DPM is insane mobility makes it so strong

[stuck acorn]

yes, this is why ferd needs buff.

[leaden flare]

ferd already got buffed several times
statistically it outperforms JPanther II
it already has like 400hp more its armor is good enough against t7 and 8 unless they spam prammo which they often dont

[nimble zodiac]

200/208mm of armor needs prammo for tier 8s?

[stuck acorn]

have you even played it? when compared to JP it's just a trash. playing it have completly no point.

[leaden flare]

why would i
i literally said stat wise and u can look those up on blitz stars instead of trying to tell me the tank is horrible i know it but ur buff is just ridiculous

[hidden fox]

i mean. Riz has a fox avatar. So i’m with him.
(also he has a point. Buffing the already Strong armor of the ferdi is just dumb.)

[mental pasture]

Ferdinand is actually interesting to play

[ivory quiver]

Interestingly worse than the Jpanther II

[remote oriole]

I played the Ferdinand and am a huge fan. Gun angles, accuracy, damage - it all adds up nicely

[mental pasture]

In fact, both tank's playstyles are very different and it's a shame to compare their Gameplays. In fact, the stats are worse, but stills enough to be playable and funny.

You can say it's the T34 and M6 EXP relationship, T34 in stats is way better that M6, but it's pretty weird that tank X is useless because tank Y have better stats.

[stuck acorn]

if you take a look at only numbers - it might seem ridiculous, but when you look at it from practic way all it does is basically making all the tank except lower plate immune to AP shells of most of T7-8 tanks. that's all. gold will still go trough like a hot knife into butter

@hidden fox also i just want to remind that if you have over 220 you can pen it everywhere. literally everywhere. And that nearly all T8 heavies have over 220 mm on standard. All i wanted was just give ferd +10 mm on hull and +30-40 on supersstructure so it won't be buttered by AP's.

@remote oriole it may add up until you realize that JP 2 is just a faster version of it with armor that you can actually rely on when well positioned and faster reload

@remote oriole look at the number of players. JP 2 have 2 times more than ferdinand. That's obvious that a tank played by more people will have worse stats.

@nimble zodiac i have no problem with ferd being buttered by gold's. My problem is that it's buttered by AP's basically everywhere. it has around 210mm effective everywhere. That's definetly not enough for T8. Even some mediums have enoough AP pen to butter it, not even mentioning heavies

[mental pasture]

It remember me how people considere Tiger 2 OP because it's immune to low callibers guns from tier 8 and light/medium AP, even the main shell from IS-5

And indeed I'm an ex-ferdinand player proud to once help those statistics @remote oriole

In fact, there's no way to confirm that the percentage of noobs in Ferdinand is higher or shorter than in Jagdpanther. Number of noobs in a tank is worthless if the number of good players is equal. @stuck acorn

[remote oriole]

You say that, but performance stats consistently show that the Ferdinand performs better than the JagdPanther II

[nimble zodiac]

@stuck acorn note that Ferdinand has a small lower plate as a weakspot, and of course is buttered with prammo elsewhere, but JPan II only has a strong superstructure, and the hull is just easily penetrable, not to mention how difficult it can be to position well enough to where only the SS is exposed and you can fire back

[mental pasture]

Aside from FCM 50T/CDC and M4 Ravioli, which are mediums knows to have high penetration for medium tanks; tell me how many mediums have more than 210 mm of penetration in tier 8

And in fact, even some heavies can fail at having more than 210mm of pen

Funny enough, only 4* of them are tech tree

[nimble zodiac]

These, though really Raum has 210mm

@stuck acorn I already answered it completely ._.

[stuck acorn]

AMX CDC, FCM 50T, Cent 1, Cent raac, TVP VTU, lorraine, indien pz, mutz, STA 1, chimera, defender mk 1. These are all, but when it comes to heavies only T32 and chrysler don't have 210 pen, so every heavy except those 2 can butter it with AP everywhere

@mental pasture it would be valid if not the fact that mediums are fast enough to circle it without any problems and usually are accuarte enough to hit the lower plate even from far away. Not even mentioning that they can just load gold and butter it anyways

[mental pasture]

Well, in fact, it still valid to say that Ferdinand is well armored against mediums. Check your last 30 battles in tier 8 and tell me how many of those you've seen. Probably the most common will be Chimera, this tank is a damn plague.

@stuck acorn It would be valid if you didn't considere that you won't be circled if you have teammates nearby. And not to mention, meanwhile you'll make less than 190, Ferdy will do 400

[nimble zodiac]

It's faulty to take premiums out of balance because they're not always accessible, they still exist in the tank pool, and should be considered when balancing tanks.

I believe Ferd could very gracefully deal with a pad of 20mm, which would enforce it against standard rounds, and still be easily penetrable to premium ammunition and high-grade standard rounds.

I want it to be "hit the lower plate or load prammo"

@stuck acorn I mean the entire front except the LFP gets a 20mm buff :p
The sides are fine, since if they're not auto-rico, they're mostly penetrable anyways

[stuck acorn]

i agree but i would aslo give little more mm to SS because it's completly flat and maybe around 10 mm more to the side so you can use your knowledge and angle to boost your armor

@mental pasture you forgot that not even single player with more than 50% wr is stupid enough to trade shots with TD while playing medium. Most of good players will just peek a boo or make sure tat ferdinand can't hide and they will be able to use their reload too their advantage\

@nimble zodiac i mean i would like ferd to be like jgpz or jgtg. that your flat armor is basically uselles when straight facing enemy, gold can butter it everywhere. but when you angle you may rely on it and even if gold still can pen it, it's not that easy and mediums can't just spit in your face with AP anymore

[orchid grove]

That's on CIS server where no one shoots gold

[remote oriole]

No, that‘s also on EU, NA and APAC

https://blitzanalysiz.com/update/8.2/tanks/8/tank-destroyers/

I think we have a serious lack of understand how normal players enjoy this game

[mental pasture]

It's easier to say "It would be better for Ferdinand if it was actually an Elephant." instead of "I believe Ferdy could get a 20mm pad to make it stronger against..." I'm too lazy to continue typing

@stuck acorn you over estimate the Blitz playerbase.

Elephant is a faster way to say "Ferdinand with even more armor and a machine gun" @nimble zodiac

I think that the HP is enough, but I wouldn't mind if Ferdy got 20+ frontal armor.

[nimble zodiac]

You can still angle 20 degrees to make your armor more effective, about 237mm if the base armor was 220mm, and that's without enhanced armor, the sides will be impossible to penetrate with AP or APCR, gold + really good standard rounds will butter it, but at least it survives most shells then

@mental pasture I don't see your point there...
Well at least it's specific

Both TDs struggle, but Ferdinand doesn't have as many options like the more mobile and great SS armor-possessing JPan II

Maybe even top the 20mm buff with some HP

[twin egret]

Buff fv215b

[scarlet fjord]

thats only cuz bad players dont need to activate their brains playing ferd

[hearty steeple]

I see blitzanalysiz has posted 8.2 stats. Some rather interesting changes that reflect on the last buffs/nerfs. I wonder when wg will release their charts

[drowsy plaza]

@unique scaffold it’s not known yet due to low player volume. Same reason the Wn8 isn’t calculated yet.

Seems to be fine to me.

[neat iris]

amx 50b needs a credit buff i can do 5000 dmg and lose 20k credits

[drowsy plaza]

@unique scaffold I’ve played 5 games in it since the release average take home has been 65k

Fairly mediocre game here

[stuck acorn]

nope. T10 tanks are meant to not earn anything, not counting few exceptions like T95E6 chief or 111 5a. Wargaming just doesn't want that

[drowsy plaza]

@stuck acorn exactly. Tier X generally isn’t designed to credit grind.

[thick rover]

y tho

[real bison]

because tier 8 premiums funni

[quasi axle]

complaining about teams when you did one shot of dmg o7o7

[uneven narwhal]

Complaining about teams in the first place o7o7

[wicked quest]

https://tenor.com/view/titanic-titanic-orchestra-nearer-my-god-to-thee-sink-drown-gif-5606158

[gleaming apex]

Apokaliptrix#8425 was muted

Darkashes#4235 was muted

[twin egret]

I hope they don't change its name to Elephant

[twin egret]

Can't wait for update 8.4

[mental pasture]

Why? I mean, if you add armor and an MG pit to Ferdinand then it's literally an Elephant

You know what is a real bad tank name? I'll tell you what is a real bad tank name:*** SmAsHeR***

[twin egret]

Name looks ugly, keep it Ferdinand

[wicked quest]

https://tenor.com/view/titanic-band-music-unsinkable-ship-running-gif-16615376

[uneven narwhal]

Don't discuss MM in here, this is for actually relevant discussions

nowhere would be preferred but if you do want to, #general-blitz-discussion

[spice ingot]

Oh sorry, where could I complain instead?

[mental pasture]

Son, you can try on #general-blitz-discussion or #off-topic-discussion, but if you want an honest opinion;
It's worthless. The matchmaker is completely random and don't choose teams based on their stats, on NA the matchmaker don't even have parameters about the player's stats. Some times you'll get very lucky, other times you'll get really unlucky.

[light ivy]

Balance in its natural form

[uneven narwhal]

<@&481447501690568709>

[gleaming apex]

stopkari#9008 was banned

[wicked sluice]

Yeah man,u also have a skorpion,ts5,amx 13 57 and the shown tanks in your tean

[sudden path]

It's one game
Just move on

[golden turret]

Maybe complain in general and not a channel that devs look at.

[hushed nest]

@light ivy 🤣

[full token]

When do the 8.2 stats arrive? With 8.3? Long wait 😦

[paper island]

Hey guys what do u think and abt centurion 1 tier 8 tank now

[twin egret]

A tank deserving for execution because it itself cries for it to be freed from it's suffering, more than the Churchill GC

[winged barn]

The cent 1 might be an average tier 7

[vital basalt]

then i think eagle 7 is better than cent 1 lol

[nimble zodiac]

Yeah you know you're questionable when your own tier-down is better than you

[stuck acorn]

yes, centurion now is quintesence of powercreep. I don't remember any buff that occured to the tank since it's release in 1.5 update except adding 10 mm to turret armor few updates ago, which obviously didn't change anything

[dense oyster]

Centurion needs a HE buff IMO
HE of 90mm will give the tank an edge. and set it up for the Cent 7/1 (which Newbie players can't use correctly cause they don't know how HE/HESH works. etc)
giving the Centurion 1 a HE buff would do the trick. (especially since the fv301 can almost always beat it in a 1vs1.)

[stuck acorn]

not really, slow medium tank without armor and not the greatest gun... that's not anything that can be changed just by a simple HE buff. He alpha on this tank is weak anyways and because of lack of mobility it won't be able to use it efficiently. after those 7 years of stagnation it needs way more changes

[safe rapids]

Here's an idea.

Buff the alpha to 225 but keep the RoF. It still has that paper hull but will now have unmatched DPM. Maybe the HE pen can go up to ~70 mm, it'll be more effective anyway with 270 alpha. Or it could just get high damage HE rounds with 300 alpha damage.

[stuck acorn]

still not enough. Take a look at black dog. It has 102mm of he with 320 alpha while having not that worse rof and going 30 km/h faster. Cent 1 needs 50 km/h top speed same as WG gave cent 7/1 last update

[safe rapids]

And or that. I’d still say alpha buff for both the cent and caernarvon like WG did for the TD’s.

[nimble zodiac]

At least cent has a decent turret, better than LeKpz

[vale jetty]

Can we discuss about FV215B?

[jagged crescent]

it's been overnerfed, blah blah blah, e5's still better than it, 113 does a better at melting heavies, obsolete chieftain blah blah blah

[empty flint]

its pretty bad sadly

[formal rose]

Something that they should add to the game is the range of shooting range, they should scale it to an equivalent to the size of the maps, so that each type of vehicle has its function on the battlefield, see a KV2 go sniper and shoot at the other side of the map to see heavy assuming the roles of other types of tanks, if you go with a heavy you have everything because you can assume the role of other tanks and you have more life, damage ... an example of this was a battle between a T34 and a Tiger 1 which could hit each other at 800m and 2km respectively in the game this case is not seen. They must add it so that each tank has its role and you don't just see heavy in battle.

[remote oriole]

Dispersion and dispersion factors are meant to generate that effect. You can obviously introduce hard maximum shell travel distance limits but I‘m not sure if that‘s a good idea

[gleaming apex]

Mateusz_cirocki [K_P_B]#2092 has been warned.

[drowsy plaza]

@dense oyster you can’t buff the HE on the Cent I without making the 301 broken OP. The Cent I needs more DPM and Mobility that is all. You can’t buff the turret as then it will still be a worse 5/1 or MkI Defender as they are more mobile. If you buff the Mobility and DPM it gives it a role than doesn’t reduce the premiums out of one.

[hushed nest]

Why i got warning if i post photo of a unbalanced team? Some moderator can explain? If this is the wrong chat than why is here written Balance discussion getting a warning for no reason is unacceptable and should be explained

[hushed nest]

Why got he any warning if he post the same ??????

[formal rose]

the dispersion factor only allows you to estimate if you will hit the precise point that you aim (you only choose a heavy tank with a lot of penetration, damage and this factor loses its usefulness). but so many things are omitted. 1. the shots of a cannon do not come out straight, in the barrel its vertical trajectory must be adjusted as the distance increases (I mean the upper angle at which in all WoT it is only luxury) and as the distance towards the aim to use gravity and a very basic equation of projectile curvature physics, and if it is within firing range so that it can fire (it is limited to the top angle of the barrel). 2. The weight of the bullet also limits the firing range which in the game is only used to estimate how long it will take to reach its target but does not measure if the bullet will hit due to its weight.

[uneven narwhal]

Shells in this game go in a straight line because the distance is very less and the shell velocity is high, unlike the actual trajectory, which is just another ordinary case of projectile motion
However it really does not matter here because if you calculate
Considering average shell velocity to be 500m/s (much lower than actual average)

you get the angle of launch to be nearly 0, I got it to be 0.8°, which does not even matter so yeah

TLDR: Maps in WoTB are too small for a parabolic trajectory to actually happen

[formal rose]

I will put this example of the real statistics of a KV2 its bullet weighed 52kg which limited it to a maximum range of 1500m due to its 10 degrees of superior angle with its 152mm cannon and the Tiger 1 with its 88mm cannon with a bullet of 10kg that reached 2000m effective and its maximum is at 3900m with an upper angle of 13 degrees, the upper angle increased the range and penetration power (using the projectile trajectory gravity force) should at least include this range limit of shot and scale it due to the size of the blitz maps as well as scaled the range of view.

[uneven narwhal]

The shell velocity of the KV-2 is 525 m/s and it remains the same through its trajectory because as I said, unlike real life, the shells aren't even crossing the 1km mark
Mass of the shell is not taken into account here as it does not matter if you are shooting a toothpick or another tank, the velocity remains the same because this is a game
Energy supplied for the launch of the shell will change according to physics yes, but the shell velocity is constant

[hushed nest]

@uneven narwhal have forgott thats there are Pinned messages, i am asperger autist and its normal thats i forgett

[uneven narwhal]

I don't see how this is out of topic?
This discussion is on how tanks can be balanced based on a maximum shell range and I'm trying to tell him it won't work

[formal rose]

Almost all the blitz values ​​are scaled or adjusted for the small maps you have, or is it that the velocity of a projectile and the effective firing distance cannot be scaled and also included respectively, I know that mathematically it can be done. There are also many values ​​that are outside the reality of a tank in this game. I know that adding this is good so that each tank has a combat role and your calculation is based on a distance greater than the size of the maps, it is not impossible, it would only increase the value of gravity and as an upper limit the size of the map and so you would get the curvature and as a bonus the top angle of the tank is useful, which is completely useless at this point. Suddenly the physics engine of the game does not handle it, but I have another game where this curvature is applied generating the range of fire and gives each tank a role and gives more realism even having smaller maps than those of Blitz.

[nimble zodiac]

“so that each tank has a combat role” 🤨
As if they don’t already?

[formal rose]

I will give you this example, we use a KV2 at 300m you can penetrate 120mm of armor and cause 600 damage and if it receives a hit, bounce it and in its counterpart the ISU 100 tank destroyer at the same distance penetrates the same armor it causes 390 damage and if it receives a impact will lose half his life which one would you use as a tank destroyer? and the KV2 even if it bounces it would cause impact damage at this time a heavy can take on the roles of a medium or a tank destroyer and be more effective.

[leaden flare]

SU 100 has more pen and I'd take that over KV 2 cuz it actually hits and isnt a useless pile of garbage as soon as it misses

[versed tide]

If you want shell drop in a game just play war thunder

[uneven narwhal]

The great milanmrlian has spoken 🙏

[nimble zodiac]

Oh? Is that name calling? 👀
The truth isn't aways allowed to be announced good sir

[uneven narwhal]

Negative! He's speaking the truth, I'm a big noob

[leaden flare]

Who you prayin to tho ?
RNGesus?
Lord Stevo from ranked chat ?
Or is it mighty Milan 😂

[uneven narwhal]

Surely the last option 🙏

[wicked quest]

This only applies to heavy projectile cannons and generally artillery guns tank combat in general does not involve having to aim upwards and calculate the trajectory as engagements happen in ranges where that isn’t needed. In other words this is extremely pointless as blitz is just fine with how the projectiles are and maps are not long or big enough to put in arcing shots artillery

Also kv2 doesn’t cause damage even if it bounces su 100 is just a meme

[gleaming apex]

milanmrlian#1465 was muted

[drowsy plaza]

The game doesn’t take crush damage into consideration- or a 155mm would not bounce off a Leo 1. If you play a game you need to accept some limitations in real world applications- both due to balance and processing limitations on devices (and the game doesn’t have access to everything to model)

The game (Blitz) does take some velocity drops into effect - but basically you need to view the reticle as automatically range calculating - you don’t need to offset for range/projectile drop - or windage.

[nimble zodiac]

It's especially noticeable on the other World of Tanks, the shell drop. The gun automatically rises to account for it so it's only direct aiming, you'll notice at long range with derp guns, the shell flies pretty far above the reticle dot before going back down to hit the enemy at that range.

Small map, fast pace, shell drop isn't very present

[twin egret]

It feels so awful, it's hard to go do anything it feels like
If they gave it more armour I guess it would be balanced?

[drowsy plaza]

I’d currently rather play the Conqueror or M103 in a tier X game than the E5 or 215b

[twin egret]

Same, i'm unironically thinking of getting the conqueror again for the past few weeks

[twin egret]

You can shoot over hills wiyh derp guns

[unique scaffold]

What can fix AMX 30 B being inferior to every other Tier X medium without making it French STB-1?

[quasi axle]

30b is basically irrelevant after the med wave buff i think it needs a small dpm buff

[nimble zodiac]

I'd be interested to see how it would work with a 120mm gun

We don't have a tier 10 squishy medium (WZ-121 is solid at least) with a 120mm

[drowsy plaza]

That’s the AMX-40 historically, it would be a neat add to Blitz.

[quasi axle]

can we focus on making the 30b relevant first 🙏

[remote oriole]

It was quite relevant especially for super unicums for a while. I don‘t think that every tank needs to be relevant, especially not premiums or collectables

[quasi axle]

Imo balance should focus on making it so every tank has at least a niche use, there shouldn't be any irrelevant tanks

[prisma jetty]

coucough 215b

[drowsy plaza]

To be fair he said irrelevant not painful.

[twin egret]

Didnt it have a smoothbore 120mm tho

[versed tide]

just make it rifled no one will notice

[remote oriole]

With the amount of tanks we have to is mostly impossible, especially because we have many tanks that fit the exact same playstyle so unless they all have the same stats one will always be irrelevant due to the others

[stuck acorn]

some of them may be better/worse, but they don't have to be necesarrily irrevelant

[gleaming apex]

WoTBWaffles#1407 has been warned.

[remote oriole]

Depends on what you consider as irrelevant. The way I see it is that commonly people call tanks that are even slightly worse than another tank with exactly the same playstyle irrelevant, case in point AMX 30B

[stiff edge]

30b bae

[versed tide]

Me who prefers 30b over meta tanks

[remote oriole]

Me who saw the news about new provisions and op consumables: 😐

[full token]

😦

[dark pike]

tungsten shells should get more decreased max dmg for increasing minimum dmg

[lunar niche]

Another batch of silly mad games consumables. So, another FV215b nerf in the future probably lmao.

[last shadow]

What where
I'm blind sorry

Thanks
But why.

[full token]

#coming-soon

[nocturne mauve]

Ewww imagine buffing heavies

[unique scaffold]

And the ⭕️ continues

[twin egret]

Might as well bring back the healing consumable for the FV215b

[halcyon timber]

why add this stupid broken consumables to our game

[scarlet fjord]

WG can you not add more cracked consumables and provisions on the new heavies?
didn't you learn your lesson from last time?
your literally playing with fire after you get burned repeatedly

[uneven narwhal]

^^
This exactly
You should've learnt by now that super consumables are generally a bad idea for balancing the game
totally not looking at 215b or E5 right now who could've been fine without super consumables and a buff

[deep shadow]

Yeah... I agree with you... the traverse and dpm nerfs are too much. Removing reactive armor is fine in my opinion... just not speed boost in its current state. Therefore, a pre-8.1 E5 and 215b just without reactive armor. 🙂

[mental pasture]

WG is using termite to try to end a fire

Btw, what means "Tungsten shell" and "Improved gunpowder"? I suppose they are the first consumables/provisions that increase penetration and damage respectively

Damn hell, Improved gunpowder is extremely lame and Tungsten Shell is simply too much, minimal damage become 105% of your actual damage? Ok that it's only in one shot, but really?

[quasi axle]

#coming-soon

[scarlet fjord]

using termite to try to end a fire is an accurate description

[stuck acorn]

yeah, as i necesrally don't like new consumables or other OP sh*t this time thank god they are at least balanced, maybe except improved oil

but tommorow test server will be opened so 2we will be able to test those new features out

[winged barn]

The 60tp doesn't have full 15cm alpha
tungsten shells

Wth
If you are going to give it 15 cm alpha just do it
Don't add more things the the balance juggling when you are already failing with what you have.

And speed provisions...
Just buff the speed if you want it to go at that speed? Right weegee? Don't add things that just waste credits and put noobs at even more of a disadvantage (this also applies directly to you sandbags)

[leaden flare]

Now it's also a consumable that removes rng from the game

I mean having a secured highroll is just smth that shouldn't be in the game
The provisions okay I can deal with that just fine but the consumable just no pls dont

[quasi axle]

^
If you want 15 cm standard alpha but don't want 15 cm he alpha just nerf the he alpha no need to add another provision

[drowsy plaza]

I just want them all removed. Why can’t tanks just be balanced normally without ridiculous and/or timed items.

[mental pasture]

WG adds them in order to pretend to add new features, let's re-mark the word 'pretend', because that's all they're doing.

Better armor overall, way more mobility/speed, basically the same alpha due to recent buffs + consumables. What else you want? Change it's name to E100 V. 2?
There was me warning about how 60TP would outclass E100 (since the alpha buff), but people said "lmao skill issue", now let's see who have the "skill issue"

[wicked quest]

Who’s ready for a better e100? Because who didn’t see this happening

[frigid urchin]

it getting buffed?

[mental pasture]

Nope, it getting op consumables

[brave dragon]

Agree 100% with Crusader. There should be ZERO . ZERO super consumables, super provisions, super anything in game … none … for any given tank or tank line.

[mental pasture]

60tp should get a quarter barrel too, it's historically accurate

[prisma jetty]

60TP should get only normal consumables, no special ones

[strong hamlet]

i believe that the 60tp should receive spall liner, reticle calibration, and hesh. also i believe the lower plate should be reworked to 400 mm effective armor. this tank does not seem to be very good and most definitely needs the buff