#tank-balance-discussion

1 messages · Page 172 of 1

dark pike
#

stop aiming for the middle part of the side armor

noble quail
#

Yeah, there's an area where armour is like 300+mm

exotic halo
#

oh my god, what an idea, what didn't i think of that? with such a bad accuracy...very good tip

distant river
#

If you can't handle tanks with bad accuracy then don't play tanks with bad accuracy and complain about it...?

winged barn
#

Put the reticle where you want the shell to hit. 75% of the time (estimation) it hits dead center.

coarse harness
unique scaffold
#

I need platoon

noble quail
#

this is not where you ask for one

turbid smelt
#

yea but are blitz maps big enough to account for significant penetration loss and use supercharger instead of quicker aimtime?

fiery dagger
#

Not really. Quicker aim time is the go on 95% of the tanks.

teal raptor
#

I said it's good in some tanks. Like t-62a super charger is better because gun handling is already nutty.

distant river
#

@winged barn This is the distribution of shots (if its the same as for wot pc, the blitz page doesn't actually explain the distribution of shells but I'm assuming its the same), so 25% of shells land in black circle, 50% in green, 75% in blue and 95% in red which is the aiming circle that you see.

They go specifically into the spaced section of Russian side armour, unless it's a Russian tank shooting in which case they go straight to the ammorack XD @turbid smelt

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turbid smelt
#

@distant river what about the other 5%?? xD

that makes sense why my grille hits dirt even tho no part of reticle is aiming at it

nocturne obsidian
#

it goes nowhere

coarse harness
#

The rest are the ghost shells and the shots nowhere near the aiming circle

fallow eagle
#

Buff conqueror

mental pasture
turbid smelt
sudden path
safe rapids
#

Who thinks we should buff the British heavy and medium tanks at T8? I'd increase the alpha of the Caernarvon and Cent to 225, give the Caernarvon the 32-pounder with 300 alpha damage so it can effectively trade at T8. And while we're at it, buff the Pershing. It's good already (I really like it) but a standard pen buff to 190 or an alpha buff would be nice.

sudden granite
turbid crow
#

Give ATGMs on T1 collector tanks

jagged crescent
sudden path
#

I disagree. It has 2300 hitpoints so it can afford to take some hits. The turret is troll from from range, where the gun excels. The super speed boost makes it so it can relocate. It's the same principle as the french heavies:guns over armor
Plus unlike the m103 it wont get overmatched in the sides

orchid grove
#

@sudden path While M103 lower sides can be overmatched by 133mm guns and larger (basically just 150’s and Conway’s 5.5in) against everything else, you would much rather have M103 sides due to the steep angling, which makes them much better than Conq’s, which has the same nominal thickness as M103’s upper side, but without the angle

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turbid smelt
#

but french tonks have speed

sudden granite
#

And french tonks got clip dpm

sudden path
#

Ok the m103 has the advantage in overall armor, but I'd counter on the sides that you can shoot the drive wheel and pen while taking the tracks off while the conq doesn't get penned from the drive wheel past autobounce angles. Also on mobility, the conq has the slight advantage in speed while the m103 has traverse, while packing a superior gun. I prefer the glass cannon aspect of it with the speed boost to get it out of bad situations. It's different than any other heavy at tier 9 and off meta but it definitely doesnt need a buff.

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turbid crow
#

But no armor. Plus French tech tree is lacking of Medium tanks

If I can suggest :

After you reaching the Tier 7 AMX M4, you have an option to choose Tier 8 AMX 50 100 (HTs) or to choose the Tier 8 AMX 30 1ter Prototype wich will lead to the Tier 9 AMX 30 and marked the final line with Tier 10 AMX 30B (MTs)

AMX 30 & AMX 30B is different

safe rapids
#

Naw, what i'd do is bring in the AMX 65 t, AMX M4 51, and the M4 54 as TECH TREE TANKS to continue the playstyle of the ARL 44 and BDR G1 B.

full token
#

too late, WG is adding the 54 as a collector, so theres no tier X to end that line

runic seal
#

Buff t28

crystal spoke
#

What stops them from making up yet another tank to be the tier X

austere citrus
#

Buff Conqueror Turret and buff Conqueror Hull from 130mm to 140mm

coarse harness
full token
#

@crystal spoke They wouldn’t be able to resist another tier IX premium. They like taking wot pc tech trees and selling them in blitz

safe rapids
#

I'm fine with T10 premiums as long as they are not part of a line in PC that is highly desired in Blitz. I'd be fine with the Obj 260 or the Obj. 907, but vehicles such as the Badger or AMX M4 54 that are desired in the Tech Tree as premiums in Blitz is unacceptable. They also ruined the M4 54 by making it OP. They took the penetration from the 120mm on PC, coupled it with the massive alpha of the 130 (mind you, it's more than the standard damage for a 130mm), and made it crazy insane. If the M4 54 gets 480 alpha damage, then the Maus, E-100, and other 128-130mm guns need 480 or even 490.

real bison
#

who runs the E100 with the 128? Only the newer players who don’t know how to save free exp will

safe rapids
#

Exactly.

dense talon
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@safe rapids what are you on about bruh, it was tested only and can still be adjusted...

Also no such things as tier x premiums, only collector or enriched vehicles. :p

safe rapids
#

Essentially they are premiums. I know they are collectors or whatnot but we just call em premiums

crystal spoke
#

@full token that's fair but can you really blame them there two entirely different games so they have no obligation to have the same tech trees as long as they keep adding tech trees they shouldn't have to follow wot pc

full token
#

They don’t have to, but if people want it as a tech tree and they already have an entire line made for them in PC... It’s not like they avoid adding lines from PC entirely

nimble zodiac
#

@scarlet fjord I have studied armor penetration mechanics and can work pretty well with theoretical armor calculations from different situations. Ah so you mean my Obj. 252U statement, well, frontally, it would still auto-bounce because of how angled it is

"Even if the pike nose was nerfed to 60mm, it'd still have the same effect frontally

Well, until HEAT is loaded"

I do stand by this statement I claimed earlier, the entire upper pike nose is angled over 70 degrees from the front, which will bounce every AP/APCR shell that it will practically encounter (the only chance is 183).

Also nerfed to 60mm, not by 60mm

scarlet fjord
#

the 400 mm effective upper plate on 252u
will be the same in terms of being unpenetrable even if u nerf it by 60mm
130-60 = 400 effective regardless huh?

austere citrus
#

If u nerf obj252U upper plate to 60mm, u better take that 70mm and slap it on the sides so it gets 170mm side armor

nimble zodiac
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@scarlet fjord so yes, it's impenetrable by the auto-ricochet mechanic. If the tank isn't using HEAT/HE, and it's not a 183, no penetration value will harm a 60mm plate past a 70 degree angle. So technically it's infinitely effective if those conditions are true

scarlet fjord
#

@nimble zodiac breh its angled at 73 degrees against equally tall vehicles
almost every tank has HEAT specially heavy tanks
which ricochet at 85 degrees
this makes its previously impervious armor penetrable
at closer ranges
many vehicles particularly germans are taller which counter the 73 degree angle
plus adding normalization of the AP rounds or APCR ones to further decrees the effective armor and penetrate
its going to be a dull armor profile with a huge lower plate

nimble zodiac
#

Keep gun depression in check, but yes, HEAT will make work of it. I was never wrong, just I would point out one special thing about 252's front :p

exotic halo
#

the group of guys who had the idea to put the Emil I in the game, they are all going to hell so they will finally got what they deserve

timber merlin
#

I think it just needs less dpm and it's balanced

queen summit
#

armor on 1/2 the tds need to be fixed

queen summit
#

nerf black prince and annihilator, smasher is managable
tiger you do realize it beats a 252u in a 1v1 in an open field

dense walrus
#

BP is fine.

mental pasture
#

BP is the opposite of fine, it's a real beast

coarse harness
#

At least it's slow not like the others

queen summit
#

cough improved engine power boost
cough can pen cheeks and kopola of a 252u from 100m every shot
can the smasher beat any tier 8 heavy in a 1v1?

tawdry hornet
#

Emil II needs a turret buff

queen summit
#

and emil 1 needs to be slower

safe rapids
#

I'm sick of this balancing around these gimmicky consumables. Remove the OP speed boost, give the emils and Kranvagn good speed, and make the hulls thinner.

rare sleet
#

Why can't heavies have a lower view range making lights have actual useful spotting capabilities?

coarse harness
#

Only WG could give you an answer to this question if they one

gleaming apexBOT
#

dynoSuccess Warning logged for DroppyPlanet#7144. I couldn't DM them.

lucid plover
#

Since when did the Black Prince be able to pen cupola or cheeks of a 252U with AP? On top on that, no it really cant beat any tier 8 heavy in a 1v1. All you need to do is, quite literally, flank it. Or, you know, trade shots with it which basically neutralizes it's DPM. Just because it has amazing DPM and it can pen a 252U doesn't mean it's broken. The Consumable gives it a little bit of extra speed, not enough to make its mobility anymore than meh. Its big, it's slow, its hull armor is garbage, and it has very poor alpha. I can think of several heavies that could beat in a 1v1 if both sides weren't braindead. Tiger II, VK 100.01 P, IS-3 (due to good mobility and the fact that Black Prince struggles to pen the pike nose hull), Object 252U (Yes, it can!), T34, Emil 1.

austere citrus
#

Buff Foch 155 gun handling on top gun

jagged crescent
#

"hey guys look, a broken t8 can comfortably beat this broken t7! this t7 balanced guys!"

dense walrus
#

read up mate

unique scaffold
#

I like how he says tiger 1 is also broken and then says smasher is “manageable”

lucid plover
#

The only reason I included 252U on this list is because somebody specfically used it as an example to show that the Tier 7 is broken. On top of that, I'm pretty bloody sure that the IS-3 and the T34 aren't even close to broken. Tiger II is arguably closer to be broken, same with VK 100.01 P, but the whole reason I even went into tier 8 heavy tanks that could beat the Black Prince in a 1v1 in the first place is also because somebody made a bold claim that the Black Prince could 1v1 any tier 8 heavy and win.

high briar
#

I was wondering if the devs could change the teammates tab to display Heath-bar as well? Like how they do it in tournaments? Because it will be great to be able to look at teammates HP without having to look around

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full token
#

It takes a lot of space on the screen the way they they do it in the tournaments. You’d have a chunk of your screen blocked by the hp bars, and then your other buttons

austere citrus
#

tiger 1 aint broken tbh. its definitely top of its tier but i dont think broken.

full token
#

Why does the Annihilator even have the Engine consumable? I don’t think it’s going to suffer much without that...

empty breach
#

Balance???? Go play 100 games in a Panther/m10 and you will see how much WG cares about balance.

unique scaffold
#

Panther m/10 has been bad for years though

blazing tendon
empty breach
#

Your just helping prove my point my friend. If it was bad years ago how much worse is it now that it has to deal with all that tier 8 armor and fire power that’s been introduced.

jagged crescent
#

What's the gun handling again? rn, im pretty sure its just a panther I but worse in litearlly every way

blazing tendon
rare lake
#

The Emil 2 needs a turret buff, like literally the top of the turret is so easy to pen when aiming down, cancelling out the advantage of having a strong turret. It's honestly just getting annoying at this point. I also agree that they should just give them better speed than all that dumb special speed booster stuff.

scarlet fjord
noble quail
#

The smasher is still great, but players can manage to defeat it because of that fairly easy to penetrate armour

Meanwhile the Annihilator has great turret armour that players are having trouble with

scarlet fjord
#

the smasher can deal 960 damage to you
In half a second
and do that every 16 seconds if he gets the opportunity
and then you have that
needs to expose for half a second to penetrate tier 8 super heavies with HEAT rounds and deal twice their alpha in some cases
Annihilator what is it going to do against that with its 230 APCR?
annihilator doesnt have this
Smasher is way more broken
annihilator is easy to penetrate if you just learn how to penetrate it
its broken too
close to smasher definitely needs nerfing
but if your nerfing a tank Smasher needs to be nerfed first lol

sudden granite
unique scaffold
#

Or the fact the he has 90+ pen for some totally justifiable reason

full token
#

and annihilator was given a speed consumable on top of its other stats...

scarlet fjord
#

@sudden granite you need gold at its turret
its hull is paper 100mm even tier 6 tanks can penetrate
Smasher has a weaker turret yes
but its also red to meds mostly everywhere except the small-ish cheeks
but Smasher has broken HEAT
when i drive infront of an annihilator with a tier 8 heavy
it fires APCR rounds at me
all 3 bounce
a Smasher can penetrate me like paper
there is literally no contest between Smasher every single youtuber is saying this
idk how some people just dont want to get it
the HE is its most broken aspect in my opinion because a player with 3k WN8 on his head can fire 2-3 penetrating HE shots per game in it
and thats basically a 183 at tier 7 firing AP at you but 800 more DPM good luck
also 101 mm of HE can penetrate almost every heavy except tanks like VK 100 KV4's etc
in the rear or upper engine deck
even the Tiger 2 in the rear of the turret
many tanks
(the sides of a Lowe's turret)

noble quail
#

wait... The smasher has 101 mm of HE pen?
Oh, it's the same as the SU-152's

turbid smelt
#

I thought su had 99mm of he

tawdry hornet
#

Emil II needs a turret buff to at least 195mm, tier x goes through it like butter and even tier 8 tds can pen it.

nocturne obsidian
#

i shoot HE at the turret and the damage splashes down to the hull

jade yew
#

Still waiting for a turret armor nerf for Annihilator

muted rampart
#

Still waiting for old low tiers coming back

keen trout
#

Ohhh yeah man. They should do something just like in WOT pc

nocturne mauve
#

Emil 2 is useless

vital loom
full token
#

I wish they would

@nocturne mauve And your reason for it not being OP is that despite the good DPM, you have a 'long reload'? I dont think that the tank is broken. Rather, its OP. Broken for me just means it cant be balanced, like the 183's alpha or the ATGMs.

nocturne mauve
#

I can’t tell you how many times I have to reiterate that smasher isn’t broken or whatever

turbid smelt
#

yea smasher can't retaliate as quickly as anni

nocturne mauve
#

@full token smasher is just overrated

I hate it when people compare smasher to KV-2 because smasher doesn’t one shot like everyone says. It’s got common heavy weaknesses such as poor mobility, being tall.. it doesn’t even have good armour. Why does everyone say it’s broken when it really isn’t?

muted rampart
#

i think wg should repair clan misson rewards because getting 1 or 2 common XP boosters isn t worth doing them. week clan rewrds from those missions are also too low for amount of time you need to sacrifice to make them

frail silo
#

That is like saying the Death star is ok because it is riddled with issues

full token
#

@nocturne mauve Idk about broken, because a lot of people think it’s too strong. But your point rn is that the tank has weaknesses so it is not OP? One weakness cancels out one strength? It’s slow, and tall but that doesn’t really matter when you’re a heavy with the HP and the teammates to stop being flanked that easily. And the tank losing DPM when using prammo is a bad excuse. It gets enough Pen and alpha that losing some DPM won’t matter. 545 alpha isn’t low for a tier 7. You can already see that low dpm doesn’t matter so much for tanks like the Sheridan and Kranvagn. Being able to pen a high tier tank where they have some good armor at the expense of a little dpm doesn’t make it balanced. HE pen is high for no reason. And it’s more accurate than other 152mm guns like the SU152, Vindicator, while having better armor, a turret, and even prammo pen.. Being tall isn’t that bad. It’s not like it has paper armor and gets penned so easily.

nocturne mauve
#

It’s definitely not balanced but it’s not ‘broken’

queen tartan
#

Nothing is Brokenly OP in my opinion.
But a frustrating tank to deal with is something existing. and Smasher is definitely one of it

full token
#

So then if its not balanced why do you think it doesnt need a nerf?

turbid smelt
#

@frail silo it is tho
@full token how high is HE pen?

stark coyote
#

I rather face Smasher than annihilator in the battle. I find smasher easier to deal with.

frail silo
#

@turbid smelt not my point
Smh

dense yoke
#

It is the opposite for me, would rather face an Annihilator than a smasher.

full token
#

@turbid smelt 94mm with calibrated

turbid smelt
#

@full token su 152 gets 96mm of pen
what's your point?

@full token but didn't you said HE pen is high for no reason

full token
#

2mm aint much, and the smasher gets better accuracy

austere citrus
#

i mean tbh, annihilator is way more op than smasher. Smasher is fine, if it was a tech tree, it would get a nerf, but rn i think its fine. Annihilator though is like smasher but with a machine gun

turbid smelt
#

its 47°/s turret traverse is stupid

drowsy plaza
#

Annihilator is OP in tier 6/7 games. It can struggle against a decent player in 8 who knows their tank. It needs a nerf to at least mobility or DPM. The Smasher HEAT is OP. It should be nerf’d - as it can front pen most tier 8 heavies.

sour comet
#

Lol heavy getting speed boosters

dense talon
#

@drowsy plaza except when you are in a Pershing because that tank sucks 😞

austere citrus
#

Buff T26E5 reload by like 0.8 seconds.

unique scaffold
#

@turbid smelt su’s a TD that can be killed and exploited easily smashers a heavy that has a heavily armored turret whats your point

turbid smelt
#

my point is making up complain out of thin air is a no go
dude said smasher has high HE pen for some reason
when that isn't that case

turret is not heavily armored 150mm flat parts can be easily penned, unlike that of anni

you can easily out maneuver smasher, it can't retaliate if any amount of simple cod is used

same is not true with anni, having 47°/s turret traverse, 35°/s base traverse (55°/s traverse with stupid boost) and 8° of gun depresion wouldn't even allow to side hug it

full token
#

Being able to kill a smasher or it having a weakness doesn’t make it balanced

austere citrus
#

smasher has a ton of weaknesses, annihilator doesnt. So annihilator much more op

nocturne mauve
#

Smasher can be countered easily, just use your regular anti-heavy tactics

full slate
jade yew
nocturne mauve
#

Broken is the OP of OP

winged barn
#

@full slate that is correct. The heat of the type62 should be nerfed

nimble zodiac
#

Well frick, I figured broken wasn’t necessarily OP, but it really doesn’t fit in the game, like Pz II J, it was broken, but not OP
(Mind you, now it is)

mental pasture
#

I don't think those 250mm HEAT pen are a that broken in Type 62, but I kinda can be biased because I own it and I really like the way it is

@muted rampart ok seal clubber

5.5 was a bad idea, but only for the tier 5-7 tanks. All the tier 2-4 (with some exceptions) were pointless and just ammo for seal clubbers @muted rampart

nimble zodiac
#

I just wanted the OG Tier ones back, even if they're collectors. I have sentimental value with them.

queen summit
#

@scarlet fjord so your saying that every game a smasher can dominate? Say against any tier 8 heavy?

scarlet fjord
#

more like
a Smasher can compete with a tier 8 heavy

nocturne mauve
#

No it can’t

unique scaffold
#

Why are you defending 275 heat pen on a 152 at tier 7

minor minnow
muted rampart
#

@minor minnow but type has more than 3 times shorter reload and better mobility

it s obvious it s worse than smasher but argument saying it has less alpha is quite uselles

full token
#

Type 62 isn’t as OP as the Smasher

minor minnow
queen summit
#

yeah and the smasher is super slow and can be circled easily
1/2 its shots to the side get absorbed by tracks

nocturne mauve
#

The smasher is slow in mobility and turning, it is tall with 6 degrees of depression so any short tank can make good work out of it. It has 140 ap pen which is horrible and to get higher pen then you need to sacrifice 100 damage and have a chance of absorption in tracks due to heat

twilit crystal
#

lmao people are trying to defend the smasher

valid spruce
#

That's good?

queen summit
#

the people against it dont know how to fight it

full slate
#

@twilit crystal and ? That true the smasher can be easily circled. And play smart when you are in battle against a smasher

unique scaffold
#

Defending smasher is like defending a kv2

plush mantle
#

they should match make people that keeps losing match with people who keeps winning, that will be balance i guess. cuz im having a bad day today, 5 streak lose in a day ( did atleast top 3 dmg). it's unfair cuz sometimes my team had more player with less than 48% and vs 3-4 55%-60%.

queen summit
#

@unique scaffold i bet you defended the vk 16 since you had 2.5k games in it. yet here we are with a tank you don't have that threatens your #1 most played the Dracula, and say that the smasher should be nerfed, and the kv2. when in reality the drac should be nerfed first. name a better med/light at tier 7 than drac

type 62 nov 22, t71 nov 7, t49 nov 26, m41 90 nov 25,
literally all but one tank you play at those tiers are HE magnets

unique scaffold
#

Which I don’t? If you’ve looked at blitzstars which you’d see the dates of the tanks played and I haven’t driven either in a long time which is also ironic considering drac has a mediocre gun and dpm and is no where near broken on the level of smasher and reading your messages you seem to complain about team mates and lag which I’m not surprised about

queen summit
#

This is literally the same problem with why the kv2 got nerfed, the people complaining use tanks and just get HE'd by them, these tanks are good for the game because it teaches people NOT TO BLEED LIKE FOOLS @unique scaffold

please fill me in mayo
and really dog? you thought the kv2 was broken before? no its just people were stupid enough to yolo them, since that's what everyone seems to do at low tier

autumn zodiac
#

No instead it teaches players to be fools

unique scaffold
#

Tier 7 better lights or meds than drac T34-1 type 62 lttb can do drac roles just fine with better pen and RoF the kv2 was a crutch that bogged down tier 6 and 7 games from how broken it was it taught players broken guns were ok and awful tanks were tolerable aslong as it’s payload was 900

nimble zodiac
#

Oh dang I guess Ima need 2,447 more games in the T-2020 to defend it

unique scaffold
#

The fact kv2 could one shot any tier 5 with no issue was a huge problem it rewarded players with little effort and punished newer players from something they don’t understand yet even at tier 7 kv2 was a problem because of its random accuracy that most of the time would hit no matter what I fail to see your reasoning on defending a kv2 when everything is there it’s horrible stats and it’s reputation as a slot machine wargaming literally created an equipment piece for tier 5 to lower the kv2s Alpha

nimble zodiac
#

Haha 183 go brrrr

@queen summit he knows what the meta is, he just wants to change it

queen summit
#

yes so because its aim was so random you think that it was broken.. aka keeping 100+m and in cover, would do what to a kv2???? same thing with a smasher, and heck ask any pro team, what do you do with an armored tank with a long reload, low dpm and a fair amount of armor. YOU CLEARLY DONT KNOW WHAT THE META IS

mr last tourney was 5/26/ 2017

and if you dont get shot Tac what about that? these tanks were a learning lession for new players, dont poke if you are gonna lose

full token
#

It wasn’t about how often the KV2 shots hit. It was about it being able to one shot enemies.

And when will you do your damage if you just keep hiding? It’s not some button you press when you are aimed at, and you instantly are behind cover. There are situations where you just get hit. The KV2 doesn’t allow a lot of tanks to walk away from those. You won’t learn much if you get sent to the garage after one hit

#

Again, it isn’t about how often it hits the shots. It’s about the possibility of these shots. It’s impossible for any tank to just be avoided completely for entire battles.

Yeah good luck trying to out spot it every battle... You can come around a corner and find a KV2 sitting there. There’s no way to outspot that. There are similar situations where you’re just going to take the shot from the KV2. Or someone else in that KV2’s team (there’s 6 other enemies btw), will spot you, and the KV2 can hit (not impossible)

queen summit
#

tac do you know what out spotting means? it means kv2 doesnt have a target.....
if anything BUFF the kv2's 107 gun

lucid plover
#

Honestly? The KV-2 did teach me to watch what tank I'm about to fight by making me instantly regret trying to take it on when it was ready to send my tank flying into next week. It is a very dangerous tank, yes, but keep in mind that all threat disappears for 21 seconds once it fires. With a tank with that sort of alpha, you end up learning either to a) bait shots b) wait until its not focused on you and get in close quarters avoiding it's turret c) watch for when the tank fires and then start being aggressive on it, and pull back when its probably about to reload. While the KV-1S sort of teaches the same lesson while being unable to oneshot tier 5s, it really doesn't hit the point home as well as when you get nuked by a KV-2 and get yeeted back to the garage.

simple ice
#

Default right your fault if kv 2one shots you. You should done ways of wiggling or trying to put your hull down position so they don't shoot you. Block the dang damage. Why would you complain ? Kv2 are derp heavy but no freaking armor on it. Learn from your mistakes sir. At the end the day the Kv2 shouldnt be nerf. Definite the top gun pencil gun needs a buff because it sucks. I don't not care what you gotta say. My opinion and that's all !

queen elbow
#

^^^ what I was trying to say before my comment got deleted by someone. If you fully peek on a KV2, it's your problem if you get sent to the garage. @nimble zodiac Yeah but tanks can drive around hard cover to shoot during that 21 second reload, also once the kv2 returns to the open to shoot, the aiming time allows you to shoot him and back into cover. @nimble zodiac yeah but in that situation any light will outspot it and can easily move away. You don't have to frontline a light so that you get infront of the entire enemy team and a kv2. Also at that distance even if you get spotted you have time before kv can aim.

nimble zodiac
#

As if other tanks should instantly send you to the garage if you make a mistake 🤔

And here I present the problem, only the KV-2 can do that

@queen elbow ah yes, of course, use cooked tanks to counter, and leave most of the normal tanks to get deleted because of a camper that they can't do anything about

The reload doesn't matter when you get hard cover to sit behind the whole time. @queen elbow oh yeah it's easy to rush a KV-2 with 6 teammates behind him, after he took out one of yours because of the game's allowance of a loaded shell once tanks reach combat

simple ice
#

@muted rampart beautiful reason approve 100%

nimble zodiac
#

KV-2 is too good at punishing mistakes though, every other tank in the tier will keep you alive to learn from your mistakes and perhaps find a further lesson in survival. Any remotely good player will dominate with KV-2, it's not very inaccurate too, with the equipment, it can hit many shots that the driver will align to an enemy

Also this is in the back corner of the map, over 380m away

@full token I agree. In a way it's imbalanced because other tanks can't one shot enemies, not just because it can one shot enemies

@queen elbow my point is that it gets wayyyy too accurate, not that a KV-2 can camp and win

📎 Screen_Shot_2020-11-26_at_5.02.47_PM.png
valid spruce
#

It is the most intelligent and complete thing that I have read on the subject.

full token
#

You’re all arguing that the Kv2 and 183 are not OP, and that they’re killable. Yes ok maybe not OP and they can be killed, so I agree on that little bit. But they’re ‘broken’, meaning that the alpha they have does not belong in the game. You can’t really argue that losing all or most of your hp in one hit is anything good for the game, when the tanks just punish too heavily for mistakes

queen elbow
#

lol if a kv2 plays td like that, the team will usually lose

mental pasture
#

In my opinion, 183 and KV-2 aren't OP, they are broken and can't be fixed (actually KV-2 can be fixed a bit, you know that KpfPz have a 150mm gun with low damage, right? Then why not give that alpha for KV-2 and give a normal 150mm alpha for KpfPz if it's a tier 9 that need some buffs?)

Anyways, that's just my opinion

nimble zodiac
#

@mental pasture Yeah, I just don't want a tank that you drive and when you see an enemy, you'd be confident that enemy would be completely dead after your shot

KV-2 has 21-98% more players using it than the rest of the tier 6 heavies in 90 days.

jagged crescent
#

you guys are always trying to defend some tank or another regardless of how op it is
"naw naw man it has weaknesses its balanced i swear!1!!!"

simple ice
#

Definee the definition of OP sir?

full token
#

Circle the tank it’s slow and tall so that negates it’s ability to one shot you or it’s other op stats

@mental pasture I tried to make a joke :(

mental pasture
#

Well, I admitted that I may be biased when talking about Type 62. Honestly, I see no problem on defending any tank on the game, but if you do, admit when can be biased (a message that everyone should know) @jagged crescent

OP = over powered @simple ice

You're right, but we all know that not every tank can circle or get closer enough to circle smasher @full token

Ah sorry, I just got the joke rn...

queen elbow
#

tanks that can get one shot by a kv2 can generally circle one. Also kv2 is a lesson on picking fights and deciding if you actually have a chance. Example is hull down emil, a tank that is definitely op but teams deal with it by creating a cross-shots. Also the person driving a tank is more important than tank itself, any op player will do good in a tank. Slowmode goes brrrrr lmao

simple ice
#

cough angleeee ! if you dont know how to anglee uhhh then finee youu want get severely hurt then on you humans. All the tanks we seen come out recently are broken okay. So? We know how to defeat them though their weakness to every tank. And yet you act like oh my gosh I cant pen them etc. Learn how to fight them don't be afraid because you are missing out a chance to learn.

nimble zodiac
#

oooH dOn't CircLE the kV-2, iT's sO BALaNceD thAT it cAN sEnd yoU To tHE garagE in LesS sHots Than aNY otHEr taNk iN the tier

Come on, it's broken, you're not even arguing that it's balanced, you're calling it a teaching machine

full token
#

Anyone with a little skill can avoid being CoDed to death, if they have some building nearby. Still doesn’t justify the ability to one shot tanks. After all, they just need to survive long enough during the CoD to get one shot off at the enemy. KV2 has kinda good dpm tbh

Emil is OP, KV2 is broken. Different thing. To die to an Emil you have to make multiple mistakes, get hit multiple times. To die to a kv2 you usually need one mistake

All I learnt when I got one shot by Hetzers long ago was to abandon the lines I was grinding, and to go get a Hetzer and do the same. Fun

@white river But is it ok that when you make that mistake, these tanks can cripple you or send you to the garage?

mental pasture
#

Talking again about KV-2, I just believe that 560 damage for AP, 480 for gold AP and 640 for HE fits for tier 6, it will still pretty derp and enough for hit kill a tier 5 tank or remove half of the HP from a tier 6
Meanwhile 640/545/960* won't break the tier 9, since a lot of TDs and tier 10 tanks already have something like this

The usual 152mm calliber damage is too much for tier 6 and it's obvious

You know that angles are useless when HE will still make a giant damage @simple ice

@white river basically said "If you're advancing through the battlefield and a camper KV-2, Smasher or 183 deleted all half of your HP, then it's your faut"

white river
#

Look man basic fact @full token. If u get hit by a kv2 or smasher or anything including the 183 u put yourself in that position. You need to realize where the tanks are or guess where they are and have map awareness to not get hit by them

frail silo
#

@queen summit your personal experience with the tank is not a clue to be used
Besides you are telling people to not use HE penable tanks
That means frick lights and mediums use a td to camp and a heavy so you don't get 1 shot in the kv2
Because encouraging camping and very passive gameplay is good right?

cerulean snow
#

I think the KV-2 reload is too long

queen elbow
#

Don't drive in front of a kv2 in a light tank in close quarters. Pick your fights. If you don't believe me, listen to the CRU2L who has experience. @cerulean snow lmao i agree @full token yes don't go trying to 1v1 heavies in lights, spot for your team and let a td deal with it.

nimble zodiac
#

Just because KV-2 punishes mistakes doesn't make it balanced. You still haven't given a surviving balancing argument for the KV-2. If a tank has a one shot cannon and had a one second reload, one could still argue "oh you put yourself in that position, shoulda known better". So in an argument that KV-2 is balanced, avoid it at all costs? That doesn't sound balanced to me.

There's no killing it if you don't pick a fight with it, besides, you can't always pick your fights, an enemy can come around the corner at any time and you wouldn't have predicted it

full token
#

It’s got good dpm already. More than a bunch of tanks, so no. @cerulean snow

@queen elbow Why avoid it completely? Could it be because the alpha is just broken and punishes too heavily, meaning that it’s not good for the game?

@queen elbow Don’t 1v1? You could be going for the other enemies and get one shot by a kv2. You can’t predict every shot and avoid every shot. Also it’s tier 6. You might know how to avoid it, but most players there are noobs. They won’t do so well

sinful leaf
#

Autoloaders heavily punish the same mistake of overextending into a bad position just the same as a high caliber gun, just not in a single shot. Not defending KV-2 here but just saying.

mental pasture
#

23:59: "omg Annihilator and Smasher are so OP, they are destroying tier 7"

00:00: "Lmao buff KV-2"

unique scaffold
#

@sinful leaf except they need far more time to expose and risk bouncing their shots

simple ice
#

omg ;-; every battle you fight their these guns must get out because no matter how low health they are what high alpha they have must kill them. Doesn't matter its it op or broken their way to play the game why are youu still complaining. If you are a light or kind paper armor tank avoid them at all cost. Don't be afraid but you shouldnt go up to it completely unless last tank in the game kill get rid of it be passive goddd dangg.

nimble zodiac
#

Your arguments would validate a tank that could one-shot you regardless, much more broken than the KV-2. Avoiding a tank because of how broken it is isn't balanced at all. If the KV-2 is avoided, in the end, you'll have to fight it one minute or another, whether it's the last one you have to kill, or you're trying to cap but the KV-2 rolls up to prevent it.

Just because you can avoid it, doesn't make a tank balanced. Your arguments, if accepted, would make any tank balanced, not just the KV-2.

It's not balanced because even if it gets targeted by every enemy, it can manage to snap one enemy off before dying, and that's just the KV-2 alone. NO other tank can do that. If we're trying to balance a tank, we have to give it similar capabilities of the tanks in the same tier, and because KV-2 can do so much more than other tier 6 tanks, it's not balanced at all.

You're not even comparing it to anything, that's not arguing for balance. "Just avoid it" could be used for any tank, so it's just a terrible argument in general.

@queen elbow I mean, if two KV-2s were matched up with each other (which happens a lot), then one has to lose, yeah? They are so overused it will happen. Also it's tier 6... there's a lot of bad players in tier 6...

@simple ice I can assure you with 4 years under my belt and vast knowledge of how the game works. I have made very valid arguments, and calling them invalid does not invalidate them, you must prove it invalid.

mental pasture
#

^

And then an Annihilator appears and counters you @cerulean snow

cerulean snow
#

I think all tanks are op so I only play the Smasher too counter them anyway

queen elbow
#

I love you @cerulean snow. It sucks to be one shot, but i can guarantee that no KV2 regularly one-shots the enemy light tanks. If that one shot in the game was enough to make it so op why is the winrate of the tank only 52%. @nimble zodiac

simple ice
#

Why the freak you do not accept the knowledge why are you keep on complaining this is stuipd you don't make no valid point at all. I only been playing this game for 7 months but I learn from self taught how to play the game. Kv 2 is balance tank and we must have variety doesn't need be same as other tier 6 tanks just makes that tier in general boring if all the same. We need have challenging tanks in each tier you need learn how to fight it put some kind skill in it. Not my fault you cant live by Kv2 you get one shot on you. My points are valid you are mistake not listen or even consider my point

autumn zodiac
#

"It's balanced because it's your fault if you get killed" is the only thing I just read

nimble zodiac
#

I rarely play tier 6, I play higher tiers. But I still want less players raging at the KV-2 because it makes the game so frustrating for them. Variety is very present in tier 6, but KV-2 is just a silly outlier. I can deal with KV-2s, but for the poor new players trying to learn each tier and upwards? Rest in peace.

Your points are valid, but they're not to argue that KV-2 is balanced, they're made just to validate KV-2 in a meta where it doesn't belong, because it's broken

jagged crescent
#

"This tank is killable and avoidable. It is completely balanced"

mental pasture
#

Well, that's why it's a broken tank, not an OP one. 183 is the worst tier 10 according to charts, but it's also one of the most broken tanks on the game

Broken: when a stat is too high or too huge and it breaks the gameplay for other players. A broken tank can be bad, but it'll still broken (FV215B 183 is an exemple).
OP: it means Over Powered. When something is overpowered, it's because a lot of the stats are broken. It's more than just broken because even broken tanks can struggle to deal with it. (Smasher is an exemple)

These definitions will help, I guess

queen elbow
#

Wg will not do anything unless the winrate in the tank is very skewed, currently it's avg (and if it's not a prem lol). In some situations it is broken but it is a great lesson for higher tier play. It teaches ppl that there is always something you can do against a tank. There is hope, even distracting a tank can be enough. Thank god for Triari

simple ice
#

facts ^^^^^^

wooden gazelle
#

It's worst in class for just about everything, minus silly alpha damage and middle-of-the-road DPM. Good players find this fun, and the average games played in the KV-2 reflects that. A trash player in the tank is going to play like trash, and a good player in that tank is going to play fairly well, because they understand the mechanics of HE.

What are ya gonna nerf, the reload? Won't do anything.
The speed? It barely paces the Church 7 already.
The armor? Psh, shells either pen or ricochet on it already.
The alpha? There goes the tank's only redeeming feature.
The pen? So the tank that can hardly hit anything can't pen anything, genius.

autumn zodiac
#

Er

#

The armor is useable

#

It goes 32kph easily

#

It has a turret

#

And maps aren't that big unlike PC

#

So accuracy

#

Less important

austere citrus
#

Yes the heat is like amazing but I think it’s fair because at tier 7/8, every tank is penning it and it’s a huge fat tank and slow and bad gun depression and bad turret so easy to kill. At tier 6/7 smasher is more op. Annihilator, this isn’t really credible but I do amazing with it at tier 7/8 so from my opinion, it’s much more op even though annihilator pramo isn’t the best.

cerulean snow
#

I love when KV-2s one shot each other by firing HE at the lower turret face, my favorite screen shots 😄

nimble zodiac
#

It is very unfortunate that WG has stopped trying to balance such a crazy broken tank. But that doesn't stop me from discussing it.

It's just broken, nerfing the alpha is the best way to balance it, maybe increasing accuracy along that path. I want a balanced KV-2 in tier 6, don't bring the tier 7 bullies into it. KV-2 can face tier 5, unfortunately, and even with AP, can one shot many of them.

Do you think any tanks are OP/broken? I will be happy to question that

Oh and don't get me started on how KV-2 absolutely claps the two and three caliber rules

mental pasture
#

"Talking again about KV-2, I just believe that 560 damage for AP, 480 for gold AP and 640 for HE fits for tier 6, it will still pretty derp and enough for hit kill a tier 5 tank or remove half of the HP from a tier 6
Meanwhile 640/545/960* won't break the tier 9, since a lot of TDs and tier 10 tanks already have something like this

The usual 152mm calliber damage is too much for tier 6 and it's obvious" read this @wooden gazelle

@nimble zodiac you're tottaly right

autumn zodiac
#

Here's the difference between 183 and KV-2 for people who keep trying to point at 183 as well.

183 doesn't have a fully traversable turret

183 can't one shot tanks unless is max rolls HESH on most tanks a tier below

183 has less armor tier for tier over KV-2

183 is about as mobile in a mobile tier.

The average health for a medium in tier 6 is about 960.

The average health for a tier 10 medium is about 1850

183 is an example of a truly balanced big gun.

KV-2 isn't at all

queen elbow
#

Just waiting for dan to respond lol. Must be nice to have no slowmode and to delete my comments ;-; Popcorn anyone? Going to go make some.

austere citrus
#

Buff 183’s traverse and on movement camp. And buff the speed by +4km/h

jagged crescent
#

no

nimble zodiac
#

If you can't hit or penetrate shots then you're not even maximizing the gun. I don't often find trouble hitting shots, penning them is up to the RNG, but I won't have to deal with that often because AP can do the job. KV-2 is easy to abuse. Just because KV-2 will become normal after a nerf doesn't make it balanced.

I think buffing some aspects of the gun after nerfing the alpha is a good idea, particularly accuracy and aiming time. As long as it has an out-trading capability over enemies, and can remain special. Heck, even making the alpha 560 as recommended by @mental pasture is a nice idea because it won't be as broken, it will still have its specialty, and shots can become more reliable if other specs about the gun are buffed

I just don't think a tank with such a high alpha in such a low tier will be balanced.

cerulean snow
#

I personally find the KV-2 is far more op with the 107mm in fact I would take the 122 over the 152

mental pasture
#

560/480/640 is enough to still being a derp cannon. Enough to delete half of the HP from heavy tanks, enough for still hit kill tier 5, enough for don't be broken. @muted rampart

I kinda accept your popcorn, unless if you try to poison me @queen elbow

Ok new Egirl @austere citrus

@nimble zodiac is tottaly right, after this damage nerf, 20 secs reload wouldn't be necessary

wooden gazelle
#

I've got over a thousand games in the KV-2. It's hilarious. But it is by far not the best, most overpowered, broken tank I own. I play it because it's got giggle factor, you do a doughnut then ammorack two tanks in a row the next game.

You miss your shot? Dead. You get caught in the open because the torque is horrible? Dead. You get spotted at a distance? Anybody worth a censored is gonna be shooting at you and you can't do rip about it. The reload is trash, the accuracy is worse, the acceleration is as bad as the British tier 6 slug trio. The armor is completely flat on the turret and the front of the hull.

But, and again I'll say it, it's funny. Because of the oneshots, because players at the tier are too bloody stupid to not drive in front of you sideways, one by one.

Players learn from the KV-2, from getting blasted to oblivion for driving out sideways, from realizing that it has a long reload. Every tier on up has 152's or worse, but at tier 6, you don't have the same level of competition, the larger repair bills, the hard-to-pen tanks. The KV-2 doesn't have extreme DPM, extreme accuracy, any amount of useful speed, extreme anything besides 70mm of HE pen. Which, again, is less than 152mm+ of higher tiers.

It's not broken, it's just mildly frustrating.

simple ice
#

I declare a winner who wins this discussion is Dan! Please he knows knowledgee way better than any you all. Yall needa respect the idea the Kv 2 not being nerf so shush!

whole flower
#

i think they should nerf the kv2

queen elbow
#

Kv2 should really have two barrels if you think about it since one always misses. Buff the bt7 art. it needs some love. You guys just pinged dan, rip

nimble zodiac
#

@simple ice you're really edging the Ad Hominem now. A sensible KV-2 player wouldn't bring themselves in the open unless it's safe. I'd be fine if KV-2 wasn't nerfed, I rarely play down there. I just don't like the bullying capabilities it has in tier 6. Also did you even read his message before declaring him the winner? Oof... the repair bills don't really balance a tank. Enemies are not really hard to pen, especially when meeting the armor with AP shell normalization, two caliber rule, and sometimes the three caliber rule. If you miss your shot and die immediately after, that's most definitely a fault to the KV-2 driver. If you get spotted at a distance, it's rather easy to predict the usual spotting positions and take hard cover to counter it. Would you consider a relatively reliable one-shot at tier 10 to be balanced?

mental pasture
#

@wooden gazelle I'll answer your whole text in just 3 little comments;
A tank don't need to be broken to be funny (sorry, I messed up a word here, now it's correct).
Also, being funny doesn't mean that it's not OP or balanced.
560/480/640 will still pretty derp, also, will allow reload buffs since it won't be so broken than 640/545/960 in tier 6 (making a tank better and also making it not a broken one).

It's funny how you declare someone as "winner" if it's not even a competition @simple ice (let's also mention that you sent this even before read that whole text, it's a giant text and you only took about 10 secs after that to send this message)

ATGM would fit more for KV-2, that's historical accuracy at WOTB style @queen elbow

simple ice
#

I trust my friend dan opinions no matter what and you really starting get on my nerves child

wooden gazelle
#

Did you read the message @nimble zodiac ? Because you seemed to have missed the entire point. You too, @mental pasture, those "answers" are kinda way off base for the entire post besides the "funny" part.

Let me try a different route. Do tier 6 tournament teams run nothing but KV-2's (besides for laughs)? No, they run Bromwells or ARL's or Smalturms, or even Crown Vics. Because those tanks are reliably good. Not maybe a oneshot maybe a third-or-less non pen maybe a complete whiff tanks like the KV-2.

Specifically, read the second half of the post, you seemed to have completely skipped it.

Your personal definition of a "broken" tank doesn't change my mind on anything I've said in any of my posts, because it's patently dishonest to move the goalposts to suit your own arguments.

mental pasture
# mental pasture Well, that's why it's a broken tank, not an OP one. 183 is the worst tier 10 acc...

Here we go again. We all here are talking about KV-2 being broken, not being OP. It may be a bad tank, it may be hard to play and may not be as good as others; but will still broken (I explain better in the message answered at this comment) @wooden gazelle

Ok, so? @simple ice if you also don't want to see another's opinion then don't enter on a public server.

As I said, 560/480/640 damage will allow reload buffs, which will make the tank better and also not broken

nimble zodiac
#

Ah, tournaments. KV-2 is such an outlier of a tank that they don't use it in comp teams just because it will either annihilate 3 enemies in one minute, or like you said, whiff too many shots to be worth it. That's just too extreme of a tank to be balanced in tier 6. Learning how to deal with KV-2s doesn't really help because a skilled KV-2 driver, such as yourself as I'd believe, could just aim for the weakspots, load AP, or even pAP, and take half, if not more, of your HP just to back into cover with teammates to keep you back from rushing. It's just too large of an alpha to balance.

@simple ice no matter what? Interesting. Sure they will always make sensible arguments, what if it actually happens to be something you disagree with? If you have your view on the game, then something's gotta stray off the line.

cerulean snow
#

So...should I buy my KV-2 back or no?

simple ice
#

you are pointless keep arguing with because you dont validate anything useful to me and I dont care for stubborness ;-; I am done I am leaving chat

wooden gazelle
#

Your personal definition of a "broken" tank doesn't change my mind on anything I've said in any of my posts, because it's patently dishonest to move the goalposts to suit your own arguments. Everything I've posted is the balance proposition of the game as I see it, and have seen it since beta test and over six and a half years of gameplay, and frankly I think your arguments, reasons, and propositions for nerfing the KV-2 are shaky at best.

Anyways, have a nice day.

mental pasture
#

Your personal definition of a "broken" tank doesn't change my mind on anything I've said in any of my posts, because it's patently dishonest to move the goalposts to suit your own arguments.

It's not just a personal definition, it's basically what most of people mean when says "(insert tank name) is broken"
It's not just a personal definition, it's based on what people says.
If its wrong then show me what is a real broken tank (if they actually exist for you) @wooden gazelle

@simple ice you can leave and come back when you want, this server tries but fails a lot to let free speech for everyone, people can argue and people can argue back. Have a good night.

Have been playing for 6 years doesn't mean that your arguments are correct, but this part is purely my opinion...

Ew, this text got even bigger than what I expected

queen elbow
#

ok... so kv2 can delete more inexperienced players / light tanks if put in the right situation. The capability of the tank to do well in this scenario is unfair for the other player, yes. Perhaps even despite having that capability, it is an overall unreliable tank that overall has a winrate of 52%. That's why I personally disagree with the proposition of removing the kv2 / changing it in a way that makes it not a kv2 in spirit. + wg is unlikely going to do anything as they haven't done anything yet. gtg @nimble zodiac that was not my argument, please consider reading what i wrote.

nimble zodiac
#

Tank "X" is extremely OP

"Don't nerf X because it won't be X anymore"

@queen elbow it's just you said it shouldn't be nerfed or removed because it won't be a KV-2 in spirit anymore, but for the sake of balance, it would be a good thing to do (not removing it, nerfing and buffing it in certain aspects).

mental pasture
#

This kinda still fit in the concept of broken tank, it may be bad, but still broken (183 still an exemple).
I kinda agree with you in the part of delete KV-2 or the 152mm gun since it's clearly a horrible idea.

"WG is unlikely going to do anything as they haven't done anything yet"
Well, for the first time, WG is removing a feature that they worked hard to do it (talking about missiles), then I guess anything is possible, even the damage nerf that I said @queen elbow

Well, gotta go anyways

queen elbow
#

pls no, this discussion has gone on way too long. Nvm you have the same view point as me 😂

karmic portal
#

How is kv2 broken? Other tier 6 heavys destroy it. As a heavy the kv2 has responsibilities the fv183 doesn’t have. If you nerf the kv2 alpha then you have a kv1s or su100y

What bullying capabilities are you talking about, the kv2 is the tank getting bullied by the arl and m6 and vk36 and all mediums with a brain that don’t sit in front of it

The 183 at tier 6 isn’t the kv2. It’s the su100y. That tank has a bit less alpha for a 10x better gun

nimble zodiac
#

@karmic portal 560 is still top in the tier by 30 HP, so idk how it would fall down to KV-1S with 400 and 100Y with 530 with pAP, 460 normally. Besides, KV-2 can still inflict 960, which is outclassing all by 360 HP

KV-2 can load AP and hit enemies with the three caliber rule (on the deck, specifically if it were forced to a facehug), or aim for weakspots that each tier 6 heavy has.

karmic portal
#

@nimble zodiac aim? Lol have fun hitting weak spots when they can just lolpen you all day. If you nerf the alpha then it loses all meaning it has because the Kv1s would just lose a bit of alpha for way better platform and gun. By your definition of unbalanced, the whole concept of derp is unbalanced. Wargaming clearly implemented derp into the game for a reason so trying to get rid of one of the fundamental aspects of the game is weird.

There is a reason kv2s don’t get used in tournaments. It’s because if you face another heavy not dumb enough to show you your sides and do bad trades with you you will get destroyed by it. You can try to aim at weak points, for them your entire tank is a weakpoint. Just because you can get big damage in pub games because most people in tier 6 are bad by no definition makes it op. It’s like saying, this tank is amazing and way better than other tanks at killing noobs. Ok great but that doesn’t make it op.

And let’s compare the su100y to the fv183
Both can take out half the hp of same tier tanks
Both can almost 1 shot lower tier tanks
Both have premium ammo with more damage and less pen
The only difference is the su100y can actually hit its shots and the su100y has to face a higher tier. The su100y is 10x more broken than the kv2 and still shouldn’t get nerfed due to the tier 7 tanks it faces

Your issue isn’t with the kv2. It’s with the whole concept of derp because it introduces luck into the equation for performance. But wargaming has always had derp as part of its game so good luck changing it

Do the enemy sit in front of you and show you them sides? Or do you have a bunch of arls and vk36s pushing on you or a bunch of meds who have a cross fire on you hitting you from 150m away . When you have the latter then say your hitting all your shots

queen elbow
sinful orbit
#

remember when the kv-2 was actually op i don't think the ones who want a kv-2 nerf do

nimble zodiac
#

@karmic portal ngl I've been hitting and penning all shots in my KV-2 the games I played in it today

Also 100Y is most definitely not 10x more broken than KV-2 lmao

BUT to be fair all the tier 6 enemies I've faced were pretty bad at showing strong points, the only guy who had the skill to do it got me to track him, but I used AP on his front and he burned to death

I do think derps in general are rather unbalanced, but that doesn't keep my sights away from KV-2

whole flower
#

i think they should buff the kv2

mental pasture
whole flower
#

my opinion changed thanks to these wonderful balance discussions

twilit crystal
#

uh its pretty simple, g ive it an extra 100 hp and remove the 152 on the kv2. the 107 is good enough. It will then be a hybrid td/heavy

jagged crescent
flat bane
#

Just remove all tanks from the game, that will balance everything.

sudden granite
#

Holy, biggest brain idea ever to be existing in the entirety of human history

nimble zodiac
#

He’s not wrong, and I hate it

mental pasture
dreamy oar
#

The main problem with British lights, top tier that is, is their armor and gun

blazing tendon
jagged crescent
#

you should look at the turret revamps

@blazing tendon also getting nerfed

dreamy oar
#

Your not wrong, it a better British medium than the fav 4005 will ever be

blazing tendon
jagged crescent
stone frigate
#

anybody feel mid tier is completely fcked because of annihilator? first came smasher then came annihilator and now anybody no matter how bad they are can carry games
its actually so tilting

hearty steeple
#

Meh, smasher existed for a year and half ruining tier 7 anyways

stone frigate
#

oh and eraser has nuked tier5/6 matches because its so fcking op
i always feel bad for players that have to play against it

jagged crescent
#

tiers 5 - 8 have been broken for quite a while

gray knot
#

O47 need a very big buff

dreamy oar
#

Worst part we’re going to have to deal with it bc new tech tanks will come and we’ll have to grind those tiers

karmic portal
#

I think vickers cr turret will still be bouncy and let’s face it, the cr is the true king of the line. At tier 10 it does perfectly fine and it faces tier 8

full token
#

nerf better than no nerf

raw glen
#

Wait did smasher get nerfed at all or is it the same?

full token
#

nope never

queen summit
#

@nimble zodiac so basically any tank that easily gets 1 shot is the problem, like the is7, so whats the problem there? People that are good and know the ammo location destroy it? No its the fact that some tanks had critical design flaws, and for a game that uses “realistic tanks” the kv2 is meant to take advantage of mistakes, but at tiers below 5 you dont really learn that.

karmic portal
#

@raw glen no it got buffed

mossy wraith
scarlet fjord
# nocturne mauve No it can’t

are you seriously defending Smasher right now?
So your saying
Every single youtuber is wrong
because all of them are sayings its completely broken CC or not they think its broken
we give you facts why its broken
and like a blind child you continue to ram your head in the wall
Wargaming wait for people like you to to call their expensive broken tanks balanced so they can continue selling it and say "its not broken"

nimble zodiac
#

@queen summit I'm absolutely fine with IS-7 getting ammo racked. It doesn't happen as often as KV-2 one-shotting tanks

nocturne mauve
#

@scarlet fjord no it’s not broken, learn to deal with it

full token
#

no

scarlet fjord
#

@nocturne mauve you learn to play the game lol
i literally just told you all that
and i told you to stop ramming your head in the wall
and you say
no i will continue LOL man this is why
i lose 7 times and am able to get a mastery in defeat

nocturne mauve
#

Why do you get frustrated at this? You take things so seriously with your giant ego. I’ve seen your past arguments and it’s all the same

mystic garden
#

Yo Emil 2 or kranvgn

coarse harness
#

@nocturne mauve let me tell you a secret
Most of us here can deal with the smasher but the average player can't
Your point sounds like "it's not broken cuz I can kill it"🥴

full token
#

an OP tank for him is one you cant pen even from the rear

#

both need nerfs

gleaming apexBOT
#

dynoSuccess classified#8145 has been warned.

spark star
#

can we actually get the Smasher nerfed? I mean seriously its been ruining the god damned game for a year and a half already does WG really want to dwindle their mid tier playerbase? Hey WG Corporate y'all suck, you want more stock prices and short term profits? How about you stop sucking on your stupid and useless investors and start doing things that actually lengthen the lifespan of the game? Seriously... these dumb suits...

teal badge
#

Smasher needs accurace nerf,Smasher dont need aim for hit the dam shoot, its only u rotate the turret and shoot
His accurate remenber the grille 15

fossil aurora
#

Plz buff Tortoise!!

cedar pasture
#

hello

scarlet fjord
#

@nocturne mauve nice argument btw did you use any of you braincells when i explained why it was broken
I was angry at your lack of intelligence ruining the balance of the game
and read what this genius just said @spark star
its affecting the tier 6 7 and 8 meta
yes even tier 8 meta

dense yoke
#

Imagine if tortoise gets its cupola removed
or even buff its frontal armor to 230-240

gray knot
#

Buff some blitz nation tanks, like o47, this thing really need a huge buff

scarlet fjord
#

Tortoise honestly
idk why they buffed jagtiger?
i mean it was already great tbh
and currently
its better than the tortoise in almost every way imaginable
better gun more alpha more pen more accuracy way more DPM
better armor more mobility its just better in every way
idk why they didnt buff the tortoise
remove the cupola and buff the super structure in my opinion it definitely needs that
it was alright-ish in the past but wargaming buffed heavies and all kinds of tanks armor hit points and everything
now its even worse...

marsh egret
#

I think the fv215b needs an armor it doesn't perform like a heavy should, at least on the side armor

nocturne mauve
#

@scarlet fjord wow OK big man

minor plover
#

He’s saying the truth lol

fossil aurora
dark pike
#

tortorise is worse than jagdtiger in every way, its a fact

scarlet fjord
#

@nocturne mauve everyone is saying the opposite of what u are
and your still banging ur head in the wall
grow up kid lol

nocturne mauve
#

The thing is, I don’t listen to indoctrination and I have my own opinions on different matters. You’re the one who needs to grow up in fact

scarlet fjord
#

you literally just said "i am not listening to you i am gonna stay stupid"
not listening to indoctrination means you dont want to learn anything and remain a fool
have fun
persons with weak mindsets like that are the reason why not everyone is given the opportunity to affect changes in the world

drowsy plaza
#

No need to personal attacks

#

It’s clear to everyone even if some people refuse to admit it, that the Smasher should be nerf’d.

#

Now what that nerf should be is arguable

vague mantle
#

i agree @glad shoal

nocturne mauve
#

Do you know how important it is to stay with your own opinion and not others? I think however I want to and other people shouldn’t influence me. People with weak mindsets are the ones who are influenced by other people and cannot think independently. If we didn’t have our own opinions then the world would be boring with no variation 😏

drowsy plaza
#

@nocturne mauve while you’re correct above - any assessment of the Smasher in tier 7 shows it to be over performing, it’s HEAT and HE have greater pen and alpha that the majority of tier 8 heavies...

#

I personally don’t fear Smashers - but I don’t need to, the main issue as to why the Smasher performance is skewed is it’s fantastic at farming nubs.

nocturne mauve
#

I understand that, it is only op on the HEAT and accuracy however i would not consider it to be broken as described by 99% of people

I think that black prince and T29 are more of an issue, they have insane armour, special consumables and HP

drowsy plaza
#

I agree that in good hands the T29 especially is a monster.

#

But a T29 only has 58 more DPM with AP and tamer than the Smasher does with HEAT and CS.

#

So it requires a lot more skill to employ - while the Smasher can just pull out smash something for ~545 and pull back to reload.

#

In a competitive environment, the Smasher gets stomped by skilled players. But being honest at least 70% of the Blitz player base isn’t competent, and so it can drop ~960HE on brainless fools fairly easily.

long shell
#

Hellcat will be broken in tier 6

turbid smelt
#

Nerf traverse on the stupid annihilator
turret and hull traverse
it is not possible to circle it, just by it sitting in open

then it also gets stupid engine boost
boosting hull traverse to 56°\s
while turret still having 47°/s traverse

drowsy plaza
#

They should remove the OP speed consumable from it too n

#

@long shell Hellcat is paper. It will be a solid performer for decent players in tier 6 - but it’s also seeing Smasher and Annihilators in 7, so it’s going to have major issues when low tier

full token
#

I think the hellcat buff is fine. In the end, it’s armor just prevents it being able to expose that often to make proper use of the DPM. So it’d have to hide more in order to do the damage. It gets focused for easy damage every time it’s spotted

dark glen
#

They should remove the OP speed consumable entirely imho, for sure from tanks like the annihilators.

muted rampart
#

tortorise is worse than jagdtiger in every way, its a fact
@dark pike nooo. I ll Play tortoise because it has better he pen

full token
#

The HE pen isn’t worth the worse armor and alpha and other stats

scarlet fjord
#

@nocturne mauve dude Smasher is a heavy has more hit points than the IS
literally everyone around you thinks its breaking the meta
stop....

sudden path
#

@nocturne mauve tier 7 is just garbage. Those tanks you mentioned plus the tiger 1, the jagdpanther and lttb is really good, even tanks like the tiger p are decent. Add in the fake tanks, and you get the most busted tier in the game. Thank goodness all these tanks get put into their place by getting disproportionally uptiered.

queen elbow
#

^ word, smashers deserve to encounter 252u’s. Fight broken with broken.

muted rampart
#

@queen elbow 252u isn t broken xD

full slate
#

Yes.. Annihilator is not broken https://prnt.sc/vrdn3u

The smasher is behind the annihilator. The Smasher have 59.65% W/R @mental pasture

And yes remove the OP speed boost from the annihilator Wargaming, that how u can balance the tank.

Lightshot
Screenshot

Captured with Lightshot

mental pasture
#

Errrrrrm... where's smasher on the print? @full slate

turbid crow
#

Make Smahser's reload to 21 second.

Reduce Annihilator penetration & HP

scarlet fjord
#

@full slate statistics dont accurately represent the tanks effectiveness
obj 140's stats are higher than 62a
even though everyone knows the 62a is better in almost every way in pubs
players just dont know how to play it the same
Smasher haas less armor than annihilator and is less forgiving

frigid patio
#

Can someone tell me what's the point of the is 8

full slate
#

@scarlet fjord Well the Annhilator is way better than the smasher and have a better mobility be cause of that stupid OP speed boost

lucid plover
#

AMX M4 mle. 54 having 70.25% Winrate average 🤔

full token
#

It’s a test tank. Good players playing it, and it’s in testing to try and balance it. Don’t consider its stats rn, because they aren’t likely to be the final version

dark pike
#

hopefully

scarlet fjord
#

yes its stats arent important
but it needs to be nerfed
and i mean seriously nerfed
if blitz hanger is accurate
gun is broken
armor is broken
has good mobility
specially the absolutely DUMB 20 km/h reverse

lucid plover
#

20 km/h reverse doesn't sound that bad? Sure, it can retreat into cover faster but thats not really a huge deal if the gun and the armor get nerfed as I believe they will

jagged crescent
#

The ufp seems to have gotten nerfed again. Now it’s essentially an IS4 hull

lucid plover
#

I mean, yeah, it is really good..but I thought the AMX 45 mle 54 was supposed to be a Heavy(as compared to a Superheavy), and Wargaming just decided it'd be an amazing idea to give it hilariously insane armor

woeful crypt
#

Guys Who's better ISU-122S or FV201 ?? I'll buy one of them and I'm very confused

mental pasture
#

ISU-122S is a faster and more armored SU-152 with tier 8 gun, it's a good tank but it's basically just an enriched SU

FV201 is a faster Black Prince, also with better aim time and slightly faster reload, but it's armor is quite worse

Both are good but not much worth @woeful crypt

drowsy plaza
#

With regards to the FV201, it’s really a tier 7 Caernarvon, which is good if you like the Caern, and terrible if you don’t.

scarlet fjord
#

thats true
but my Celestial has 20 and believe me its really broken when u have amazing armor and that reverse@lucid plover

lucid plover
#

Oh, fair enough

pearl dawn
#

Tier 8 Lorriane premium tanks is pure garabge. No offense but for 10 dollars i would expect a better win rate with it. That was at 60 percent off. No armor whats so ever on the tank and 15 second cool down is horrible

karmic portal
#

A smasher can definitely not compete against a tier 8 heavy. Tier 8 heavys have way to much armor and hp,p

dense walrus
#

@pearl dawn if you want a better winrate in it then play better. no one forced you to buy the thing without doing any research.

muted rampart
#

Lorraine deserves a Little buff anyways. I mean just frontal armor buff to not be penetrated by he shells (around 100 mm effective on all The front this tank weight is 40t so way more Than Emil which has really good armor) and clip reload Time buff maybe 2 seconds

crystal spoke
#

Its a ceiling high floor tank (I think thats the right term) which means its hard to play well but when it is it pays off

austere citrus
#

Buff 111 5A upper plate from 130mm to 140mm

#

i mean tbh, the lorraine does suck, buff the alpha from 225 to 240.

jagged crescent
#

I wouldn’t say suck. Although maybe better aim time wouldn’t hurt

pearl dawn
#

no issues aiming. the 15 second reload is horrible unless you can manage to hide for 15 seconds without dying. I am expecting more cash on earnings for a premium.

jagged crescent
#

Interclip? I usually am ok with tanks having a certain weakness provided it has other benefits that can “compensate” for it

spark star
#

here's an idea for a balance change

increasing the ticks between the server and the player

you see the reason why there's a bit of a delay when a tank goes from one build to another? that's the tick counter being low

Perhaps if we increase that it should decrease the number of people being able to sneak through buildings

however I think if we do that, it may also ruin opportunities for lights and meds to actually have a chance to sneak soo... whaddya guys think?

also some spots in himmelsdorf on trains needs working, the spotting there is wonky as hell, you can get spotted behind the trains and its annoying as hell

orchid grove
#

@spark star The spotting on Himmels isn't wonky, it's that you lack some map knowledge. The reason why it might seem "wonky" is because there's a lot of small gaps between the train cars on Himmelsdorf, allowing for spotting, and also cheeky shots

austere citrus
#

buff 121B gun depression by one degree.

spark star
#

why the heck does that have to be a thing? like honestly... that's just an annoyance if anything, never really seen people use it for hitting tanks other than just spotting

besides the cover is close anyways allowing for proximity spotting so again why does that have to be necessary?

full token
#

I know that the A cap’s gap gets used often. I use it when someone tries to hide behind the cover

muted rampart
#

I think it could be nice to have Little bit bigger maps in the game. I don t want really big maps like on PC beacuse super heavies will be worthless, but making them maybe 50-100 m wider and longer should be okay. With that it should be way easier to fix spotting system and give another life for tds that are meant to camp without any need to buff them. There are some certain maps like himmelsdorf where making them bigger isn t even hard beacuse you can just make players able to go to places that are for now behind red line like Castle on himmel. Maybe WG could also make players able to get into this Little island in City on middleburg, of course making Bridges from both spawns to this place and making some buildings that will make shooting players in city from there harder

Edit: The one that never wanted to go to that island on middleburg shouldn t call himself a real blitz Player xDDDDDD

fiery dagger
#

That would actually be cool if some maps were to be expanded by a little bit.

Understood^

dense yoke
#

i dislike Middleburg supremacy,
If someone responds to me saying something like "Well then don't play supremacy mode".
Well there is something called rating/special modes and tournaments.

full token
#

Well then don’t play Middleburg

orchid grove
#

I wish. I honestly wish that Middleburg would be removed from the game, moreso than any other map

I wish that WG would let us ban maps like you can in PC so that I could ban middleburg

austere citrus
#

I would ban every map besides mines. @fiery dagger I sealclub with Super Conq.

fiery dagger
#

Mines is literally the worst or second worst map on high tiers...

muted rampart
#

@orchid grove i d rather get rid of Faust, falls creek and Black goldvile. Middleburg is not the best but kinda okay. Still not even close to my favourite maps like mines or dead rail

drowsy plaza
#

Lorraine did suffer since the heavy HP buff. But it’s not terrible.

📎 image0.png
mental pasture
#

I never played it, but it's clearly just a situational tank

All you need is high skill or find good situations where it can be actually useful

Because the playstyle is totally different and Emil 1 is an OP tank, lmao

Chill @unique scaffold, it's just a troll

austere citrus
#

why play lorraine when emil 1 has all of it including strong armor while lorraine does 900 alpha per clip and emil 1 does 960. Buff lorraine intraclip reload to 1.5 seconds.

unique scaffold
#

buff it to 1.5
Excuse me?

full token
#

Sometimes he gets bored and decides to try and troll

orchid grove
#

Lorraine should get a 5th shell

coarse harness
#

It's pretty meh tho
900 dmg in 7.5 sec is bad

austere citrus
#

This guy says im trolling when I say reduce lorraine intraclip reload to 1.5 seconds from 2.5 seconds. That is actually a funny man.

round rivet
#

Is there anything good about the amx 40

drowsy plaza
#

Fact

austere citrus
#

i did say nerf the upper plate, side armor, and speed, and a bunch of other stuff.

mental pasture
#

Guys, don't feed the trolls

drowsy plaza
#

I mean the Lorraine just got massively powercrept when the Heavy HP buff arrived. The clip potential isn’t nearly as scary to heavies now

unique scaffold
#

It literally is Egirl so don’t take them seriously

drowsy plaza
#

Honestly 2 sec intraclip wouldn’t be bad - but I think @orchid grove ‘a idea on a 5th shell isn’t bad - mainly as I’m fine with buffing tier 8 Meds as most need it.

unique scaffold
drowsy plaza
#

That would be pretty OP @unique scaffold as it could clip then ram kill most tier 8 Meds

#

Sign me up 😏

unique scaffold
#

Sounds fun

minor minnow
candid steeple
#

WG buff VK 45.02B side armor to at least 120mm. 100mm is way to low. Anyone who loads gold pens your turret and if sides are already so weak tank is so can*er to play. In WoT PC and lower plate and upper plate are 200mm but in blitz lower plate is 150mm. So why does Vk 45 has and weak front armor and junk side armor? All that Vk being about side scraping but E75 has better side armor. I think that its pretty unfair for VK and E75 moves faster and also E75 has sharper angling on its lower plate.

hardy hazel
#

Told you guys, i smell e-girl 3.0

spark gorge
#

all three of these need some sort of improvement. why play that line when you can play the maus or e100 line?

📎 image0.png
muted rampart
#

@spark gorge i really liked T9, still 120mm side is really nice idea to make it more fit it s role. About T8 just buff turret armor to 220 mm and buff a speed a little bit to make it real heavium. Tier X deserves several armor buffs, because it definetly Has too many weakspots

austere citrus
#

Buff Conqueror Turret, literally tier 7 can pen a tier 9 tank's turret frontally with standard rounds and this is a heavy tank. The hull armor isn't even good since it's the Caernarvon hull which barely holds itself at tier 8. I would buff the turret as well as buff the hull armor from 130mm to 140mm so the tier 8-9-10 go from 130-140-152.

dense yoke
#

VK 72.01 armor is trolls

nimble zodiac
#

@plucky pumice given the turret is as weak as 90mm in some parts, and in general, 150-200mm effective in others, quite a lot of tier 7s can pen it

hardy hazel
#

Well he/she is half right there, conqueror turret is potato even vs tier 8, but i dont know if it is potato vs tier 7

jagged crescent
#

It’s very possible since a lot of guns in t7 have 175 pen give or take

coarse harness
noble quail
#

it's 900 damage

4 shells per clip, each shell does 225 damage if I'm not mistaken

fickle glade
muted rampart
#

@plucky pumice it is pennable. I was grinding this piece of crap not that long time ago. T54 mod. 1 penetrated me with ap shell

hardy hazel
#

I fell like this tank and fv 215b sacrifice too much for the gun it has

dry lance
#

vk 45.03 needs a major upper plate, sides and turret cheeks armour buff , type 59 needs a (slight) dpm buff , vk 45,02 A needs an armour buff, fv215b needs an upper plate armour buff, conquerer needs an upper plate and turret armour buff, smasher and annihilator either need to be heavily nerfed or straight up removed, super pershing needs a slight mobility buff , kpf pz 70 needs a slight armour buff , t44-100 needs a mobility and gun depression buff

dense yoke
#

I never undestood, why people liked 215B so much? I loved the tank design, it was actually the first tank that i was actually going to grind. But anyways why do people like the 215b so much and why do people hate super conq??
-
215b just doens't have armor, 2150 hp pool, good gun, decent speed, decent frontal turret, has OP consumables.
-
It is kinda sad to see a tank like the 215b have 2150 hp pool, while e5 has 2300 hp. Also chief kinda does it job better.
-

austere citrus
#

215B has WAY better mobility than the Super Conqueror, more DPM, and pretty good armor. sure the hp pool is low but there is sandbag armor and u dont need hp if u bounce shots.

nimble zodiac
#

215b's turret is very good, the gun is the most redeeming, and if the HESH is considered, could be arguably better than WZ-113's gun

sinful leaf
#

131? That's a Chinese Light from WoT PC... Oh I see nvm

mental pasture
dense yoke
#

i wouldn't say that 215b has good armor, it has workable armor.

austere citrus
#

I prefer 215B because the gun is more accurate than 113.

gray knot
#

113 is basically a medium with heavy front armor, and a HT alpha MT reload time LT pen gun

It's not a battle ship, it's a DOOM TURTLE

If it arrives the battle field, then there must be doom

But sure if it can

jagged crescent
#

"could be arguably better than WZ-113's gun"
It's definitely better. Although the WZ-113 has better alpha (which means better dpm), everything else more or less falters against the 215b's gun handling. The 113 gun's actually pretty overrated imo, especially considering how that its standard ammunition is apcr, which is a bit of a handicap.

@gritty flame excepturgreen, me blue
ez balance

gray knot
#

WZ-113 actually need some buff, the pen is the second worst in t10 HT, the armor in side doesn't exist, the gun accuracy sound like so less, but you actually will get suffered from it, speed is good if there's no obstacle, turning rate sucks, this tank is just too overrated

drowsy plaza
#

WZ-113 doesn’t need any buffs

#

I mean it’s over performing now - why buff?

#

I mean in tier X the only tanks that really need buffs beyond what’s currently planned are the Grille (a tad better camo / or better traverse) and the WZ FT

#

And the BC needs more than what’s planned

#

The WZ-113 has 369 HEAT pen with CS @ 2,817 DPM

#

Hardly low in either pen or HEAT DPM

flat bane
#

Give the original 640 alpha stats to the stock, non-autoloading gun of the Foch 155. 😌 😌

twilit crystal
#

4202 could get the turret buff with a hull nerf first, or just a bit more top speed @drowsy plaza, .

drowsy plaza
#

I’d take more speed, but it is miles better than it was

exotic pine
jagged crescent
#

i wouldnt say that the 113 needs a buff but a minor rework where it trades some dpm for better AP shells + traverse wouldn't hurt
plsno,imtrynasavemecredits

turbid smelt
#

113 is fine as long as it has more dpm than all heavies(except British) while spamming calibrated gold it can keep that paddle boat traverse.

ahripmatexd

mossy wraith
#

No need

spark star
mossy wraith
#

No need to tell you apart

mental pasture
#

@spark star
"North side usually loses"
Why? Which is the reason for this statement?

spark star
#

south side has a massive run up for hill, south gets from spawn and hits top speed when they go down from spawn and have a massive run up going north while north have to take a turn climb up, which takes longer

its imbalanced asf... basically it goes straight up if you spawn south on mines but you have to climb if you're in north, the light/medium spawns really screw them over

full token
#

TDs have too much influence on mines. Can’t push over hill, or the left or right flank because the TDs are given convenient bushes and rocks and vision of all three parts of the map

flat bane
#

What do you purpose then? Make Mines only playable within T1-7 lol?

full token
#

That’d be nice. It’s too small IMO

mental pasture
#

^

jagged crescent
#

noneed ;))

hazy mortar
#

Please balance the whole m46 Patton branch

dark pike
#

people dont like the obj 260, why though?

flat bane
#

@dark pike It's a T10 collector tank, so you have to buy it with gold or money.

unique scaffold
#

From design alone it’s most likely just gonna be a better is7 which lets hope not

full token
#

If they’re going to sell it, then it’s just going to be better

noble quail
#

The M4A3E8 is getting buffed a bit in 7.5 and the M48 is also getting buffed
The M46 patton is kinda fine
This makes the T20 and Pershing left. IMO the T20 and Pershing are the ones that are really powercreeped, I wonder if WG has plans to buff those two.

vital loom
fossil aurora
full token
#

since when did the m48 no longer need a buff

thick rover
#

^ coff coff

fossil aurora
full token
#

JgPzIV was more because they were just buffing all the TDs in general, but i get what you mean

vital loom
#

This tank seems like a 252 on T10 with tons of armor...also that lower plate is rly small and could be easily hidden

📎 image0.png
dense yoke
#

@vital loom That is IS7.
it is a model of IS7

exotic halo
#

guys, how about the E 50 M Defender in the game? it's an E 50 M with a new warpaint, it has an autoreloader of 4 shells, 1.5 second between each shell, reload for shell 1 to 4 : 7.5s, 6.4s, 5.3s, 4.2s, penetration : 245 with APCR, 310 with HEAT and 210 with HE, 1.8 second of aim time, 0.288 of dispersion and spaced armor on the side
and it's a tier 8 premium tank of course

spark star
#

hey PR guys why dont you tell the devs here to nerf down the AMX M4 Upcoming Tier X

seriously the balancing must be a joke right? 400mm effective hulldown, 350mm effective on hull on flat ground are you actually serious? What were you smoking when you think this is a good idea? Seriously another overpowered collector that only WHALES can get good job

no other tier X heavy has this sort of armour aside from the Maus UFP or the E-100 UFP so is this how the game is now? Get stupid overpowered collectors that you say would be nerfed but you dont because apparently the whales are more important than the rest of the playerbase... very good job there wargaming you already ruined tier 7 by dumb business practices and now you start doing it on tier X... good on you wargaming

dense yoke
# exotic halo guys, how about the E 50 M Defender in the game? it's an E 50 M with a new warpa...

@exotic halo You see Wargaming has 3 defenders. They all share something in common. Aside from being blitz Nation tank. They are all tier 8s and all of these tanks are different types. IS3D was heavy, T28D was a tank destroyer, mk1d was a medium and all of those were based on tanks in the tech tree. So naturally, we would think that the next defender will be a light tank, will probably be tier 8 and will be based on a light tank. So I don't think they would add a tier 10 defender medium or even a tier 10 defender before they add a tier 8 light tank defender. Maybe in the future, we will get a tier 10 defender series, but for now we wait till Light defender gets released.

exotic halo
#

no, i was saying thts as a joke, there are already enough Defender tanks, we don't need more

distant river
# spark star hey PR guys why dont you tell the devs here to nerf down the AMX M4 Upcoming Tie...

Is this another "Oh no a heavy tank that has armour" moment?

If you are going to complain about it then complain about it meaningfully and using actually useful stats instead of "it has a strong and angled upper plate it's op"

📎 Screenshot_2020-11-28-10-12-05-679_com.dreamfarmgames.wot.armorinspector.android2.jpg 📎 Screenshot_2020-11-28-10-11-51-324_com.dreamfarmgames.wot.armorinspector.android2.jpg
tulip turret
#

2 Things to the devs:
1- Q:is the ATGM sheridan avaidable for training rooms?

2- Suggestion: make Gravity mode, Mad Games and Uprising ( Burning Games maybe too) avaidable as battle mode in training rooms.

gray knot
#

If we have defender, then there must have attacker, what if attacker is based on autoreloaders

coarse harness
#

How about

No

torpid junco
#

I dont think complaininģ about a tank before it reaches the game is necessary, lets see how everything pans out in the near future 👍👍

runic coyote
#

Pls no more tier 10 premiums/collectors..

torpid junco
#

I personally want to see more

dense talon
#

@runic coyote well i mean no more at all is meh but seriously the last few they added could so easily have been new tech tree lines... :v

runic coyote
#

Badger is the best example

coarse harness
#

So I bought back many tanks because of the discounts including the T54E1 and it's gun is worse than it was in my memories
It's slow, the armor is hardly even troll and the gun is not as nice as it should be but most importantly there is no reason to not give it HE shells

turbid smelt
#

wait it is worse? I had good memories before they buffed it....

you got decent enough speed to flank it in is7

dense yoke
#

Is7 (318 pen) can't even pen a badger in hull down with cs and apcr.
The only thing IS7 can pen is the lower plate of Badger and you can do it with normal shells.
Buff IS7 apcrs from 303 to 310 pen

sudden granite
dense yoke
#

Why should is4/374pen~ be able to pen badger cheeks?/hulldown

nocturne mauve
#

Badger is op on mines but o other maps it’s trash

full token
#

op in hulldown spots

candid steeple
#

Why is td allowed to be hulldown unpenetratable hwile it can penetrate everything?

turbid smelt
#

it sacrifices everything for that one ability it may or may not have chance to use

sudden granite
#

Exactly
Tell me anything else the badger can be used for except being hulldown

full token
#

Taking hits for the team

neon summit
#

Uhm fix the dam chieftain on the hatch u can HE it so annoying u cant even make a lil push with chieftain without getting HEd on hatch :L

candid steeple
#

That hatch is only pennable thing on the turret. And I doubth that everyone can HE it.

turbid smelt
full token
#

Yeah that’s why you shouldn’t expose the STB turret for that long. If you give em time to aim, they’re going to hit and pen. But the weakspots generally aren’t a problem. The IS7 is a really hard one to hit

turbid smelt
#

waffle had a broken gun..

forest heath
#

Friendly reminder that the predator UM still exists and needs an penetration and frontal armor buff

dark pike
#

its getting a frontal armor buff

coarse harness
#

It's getting armor buff all around as well as gun depression buff

forest heath
#

When and where did you get that information and on what update is it coming

turbid smelt
candid steeple
#

I don't even know why people play those things they look so ugly. Plus it looks like armored vehicles that is not supposed to go face to face with a tank.

dark pike
#

they are tanks apparently, also look at updated armor

forest heath
#

I have had a look on blitz hanger and they are only going to give it a depression buff
That was the last thing I wanted

turbid smelt
#

@forest heath down below there is changes between 7.4 and 7.5 displayed in view armour model type
not it in numbers

because models aren't made up 1 type of armour plate around the tank
there are multiple and writing all of them down would be pain in the butt for something they keep free

forest heath
#

Why don’t they give you the numbers instead I can’t see a difference between the old and the new armor profile also it really needed a penetration buff on the AP but at least it’s something after so being neglected for so long

turbid smelt
#

@muted rampart which things?
why lel they are tanks too

gleaming apexBOT
#

dynoSuccess Chlepek#6424 has been warned.

forest heath
#

I still have trouble trying to find the a good way to compare the old armor profile with the new one @turbid smelt

turbid smelt
#

xd, if you on pc, then open on new tab for 7.4 armor profile and then open 7.5 armor profile

full token
#

You could also just wait for the news post from WG since OT info isn’t always the final changes, and WG usually puts all the armor buffs in detail

safe rapids
#

Question-what do you think of the Obj. 257 and 277 in Blitz. The IS-3 splits into the 257 and the IS-8. From there, the 257 leads to the IS-7 and the IS-8 to the 277. The 257 is a Tier IX IS-7 with a slightly worse gun than the IS-8, worse mobility, but much better armor. The 277 is a Tier X IS-8 with a slightly better 130mm than the IS-7 but with much worse armor, and better speed.

orchid grove
#

I hate all of the new Soviet tech tree tanks on PC. 257, 430U, and 268 v4 can rot in heck

minor plover
#

Tiger 2 is too strong, superior to most of T8 HT. Gonna reach 100 battles to have better view on that tank.

📎 image0.png
mental pasture
#

It's a good heavy but it's armor is good only until the prammo goes boom (good cannons works too)

desert epoch
#

Why is wargaming creating tanks and showing them that they are likely to come into the game as big as they have been for years?

dense yoke
#

I agree 430u should just rot into "not to put".I am afraid it will make IS7 more irrelevant.
But i am most certain that Wargaming knows that a lot of people love&play the 430u. A lot of tier 10 tanks that are in pcversion have been made a collector here. I am afraid that maybe 430u will face the same fate.
---
Manticore is a lovely tank though.

safe rapids
#

430U is fine if they give it 400 alpha so the 121 can still be the highest alpha medium. Bobject won't work.

austere citrus
#

You guys hyped for obj 260, I'm hyped for e25 with 105mm, wait nvm, on pc the e25+105mm has 1.95k dpm which is like terrible for a 105mm. @dark pike Um... they should just nerf obj 260 side turret armor and reduce the side armor from 150mm to 130mm.

dark pike
#

obj 260 might push is 7 out of relevancy

austere citrus
#

Buff WZ 111 5A's DPM from 2400 to 2600. Droodles agrees with this buff.

jagged crescent
#

Doesn’t look that special imo. It’s not hard to overperform an is7 anyways

distant river
#

@austere citrus Use rammer 🤦‍♀️

It also has marginally better dpm than the IS7 so buffing it pushes the IS7 out of relevance

dense yoke
#

Imagine using youtubers opinion to push your opinion (about a tank/buff) up the ladder.
---
Obj 260 will have a much better turret Armor/shape than IS7.
Its hull Armor is basically the same as an IS7, except for the rear. Better gun, I wouldn't even be surprised if it has 2450 hit point, etc.
If we are assuming that they're statically the same as in Wotpc.

dark pike
#

which it wouldn't be

orchid grove
#

260 would need a serious nerf bat to be balanced. Substantial hull armor, gun, and speed nerfs

unique scaffold
#

Knowing weegee their gonna keep atleast one attribute and you can already guess what that’s gonna be

frosty oriole
#

what if it was as slow as a maus

rare sleet
#

Im not hyped for the 260 at all I just grinded the is7 and its gonna make the is7 even more irrelevant

muted rampart
#

nah. just nerf it s mobility to 30-35 km/h and give it bigger coupola. this tank will be quite balanced then. just an obj 252u at t10

austere citrus
#

@distant river No, IS-7 has better armor, much better actually including side armor. So it should get 2600 DPM with CS.

fringe orbit
#

I have a question. So, atgms are being removed because people dont like getting shot by a target they cant shoot back at, right? So, why did tank destroyers get a buff then? Theres been many times after the buff ive been shot by a tank destroyer that i can not see. Many matches noone has spotted anyone. My team had not spotted an enemy team member nor any enemy spotted any of my team. Im shot almost all the way across the map by an enemy tank destroyer that i can not see. Most of the time they do atleast 400 damage. Can anyone tell me how this is fair? Atgms are getting removed for basically the same reason right?

mental pasture
crystal spoke
#

@fringe orbit not being able to see a tank and not being able to hit it due to it hitting you behind cover are vastly different and with tds you can hit them if they're unspotted unless they move into cover first

jagged crescent
#

also helps that most tds are generally alot less mobile than a sheridan. . .

mental pasture
#

@fringe orbit concealment is a feature that almost most of non-heavy tanks are good and this can be actually countered easily

Invisible tanks aren't invencible and all you need to make them visible is approach (which isn't hard on blitz, since the maps are small and every tier 10 have 240-260m of view range)

If you can't approach, then try smart spotting (show only what is necessary for spot, like gun mantlet or cupola, and always move to avoid hits there), when your enemy shoot, all the nearby bushes won't be effective for a few secs and your enemies concealment will decrease, so you most likely will spot your enemy

If you still can't spot your enemy, you can also try a blindshot based on your wisdom about the map and where the damage came from, the chances of a hit aren't so high, but it's worth a try

That's why concealment tactics are balanced, but not missiles

Well, if you still disagree but don't present any argument then it's not my fault. I did all that I could. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

fringe orbit
#

I strongly disagree but 👍

unique scaffold
#

Kinda fishy your first message is in this channel about that specific scenario and you never clarified what tank or type you were playing so did you just join only to say that

mental pasture
#

Yeah that's also a valid point ^

Concealment mechanics depends a lot on the sniper's tank, depends on the type of the sniper's tank and also on the type of the tank that is spotting

Tank dimensions, equipements, cannons, tank types, terrain, who is trying to spot, etc... it all are things that influence how good will be your tank's concealment

fringe orbit
#

Well, i primarily play lights and mediums. Atm im grinding the t37 to get the t71. I have played the teir 5 leopard alot more then any other tank. I distinctly remember having some issues with tds while grinding from the chaffee to the sheridan. Also, tbh, when you have a few enemies in front of you its extremley impractical to take blind shots at a td you cant see. It will also leave you defenceless against the enemies in front of you that you can see. This scenario has happened to me MANY TIMES. me and a team mate will be getting sniped by a td we cant see while in a fire fight with a few tanks in front if us we can see. I even have a replay right now showing how bad the t37s view range is. Me and some of my clan mates were in a training room. I was going to flank them (didnt know they were pulling up on me) and i got about 8 feet away from them and finally seen them. Yes we were all driving and not sitting still. One was in a russian td and the other was in a cromwell. 8 feet. Again 8 feet away and i finally spot them. Im not a wotb god. I cant shoot a td i cant see especially when im trying to save myself and my teammate from the tanks in front of us we can see. Its extremley impractical to focus on a td you cant see when you could be doing something more helpful for the team. I also would love an explination on how amything ive said is "fishy" this makes no sense to me. This is dedicated to balance discussion right? Me telling my view point, experiences, and side of the story is fishy? Yes theres alot of factors but ive experienced this problem with many different tanks, both tank im playing and tank the enemies playing. Id hop on the tank destroyer band wagon but i cant successfully play a td to save my life. Also cant successfully play a heavy either. Im only decent in lights and mediums.

remote oriole
#

AC IV Sentinel is overcooked because of the HE

mental pasture
#

It's pretty impossible, 8 feet = about 2,5 meters, right?

Well, if a tank gets 50 meters or even near from you, it's spotted automatically, 50 meters = 164 feet according to Google @fringe orbit

You may counted something wrong, because it's literraly impossible to not spot something in less than 50 meters away from you

Ok, I'd like to see the footage, because it's kinda impossible to don't spot an enemy 50 meters from you

fringe orbit
#

I can get you footage if youd like.

tender bison
#

its called proxy spotting

frail silo
#

@fringe orbit the point of TDs is to provide support fire
That and they are imparctical without their teammates (differs from one another)
If you get sniped by TDs then you just put yourself in a bad position or got caught in the open all of which is ultimately your fault.
TDs also lack on (speed / turret / view range / armor) depending on the tank, there is mobile TDs and armored ones but they almost always lack something so you can use that.
Also they rely on teammates to spot for them, they are just dead if they are left alone. Especially slow ones.
So yeah they are heavily team dependant, they are supposed to provide support fire as it is their role to do so, if you get shot by one then you are in a bad position and did a mistake, and also your team has TDs too.
Well of course there are other scenarios where sometimes you are in a gun fight and a td end up relocating to shoot you which isn't fair to be used as an argument that these tanks are broken because any tank might have done that too.

@remote oriole no, and that is not the point but whatever
Sheridans had a turret
Shooting from behind cover is something a td cant do they have to be exposed for a time.
Also sheridans were very mobile and had spaced armor to be he proof, what comparison are you trying to make? Also sheridans had view range.

austere citrus
#

Obj 260 should've been a tech tree tank that branches off the is3 which turns into obj 257 and then obj 260.

mental pasture
#

Also, things on WOTB may look like much closer than what they actually are. 50 meters can look like 8 feet.@fringe orbit

remote oriole
#

Missiles also provide support fire and nobody liked it

fringe orbit
#

I strongly disagree unknown dude but 👍

#

I distinctly recall update 7.5s news article on the website and in game stating that sheridan players dont win any more matches then anyone else. Even says its balanced as it is. Also says that its gettimg removed because players emotions. Maby be nicer unknown thing? I do feel as if youve been a lil rude my dude. But thatll be denied. So dont even sweat it man.

unique scaffold
#

where is the main chat?

fringe orbit
#

So, let me get this right, non sheridan players, people who hate atgms, their emotions are important enough to take out atgms, EVEN THOUGH server statistics show thay they are balanced and dont win any more matches then anyone else. BUT my emotions towards tank destroyers aren't? Would you have told the players who dislike atgms the same thing you told me? That they put them selves into a bad spot? That its their fault they were hit by a missile? I mean wargaming admitted sheridans DONT WIN ANYMORE THEN ANY OTHER TANK. Id love to hear your response unknown guy.

unique scaffold
#

Your new here which is a fact the ATGMs literally caused a well known content creator for blitz to quit and caused two sides to erupt in this server one advocating to remove it and one side to keep it and clearly one side won

muted rampart
#

Beacuse atgms are actually unfair not like tds. They need to have straight shot line on you from far distance what is really, really hard to do in blitz because maps are mostly closed and on only few maps you will have decent postions from where you can shoot enemy without getting spotted. On most of maps it s just nearly impossible beacuse of tons of covers on every map and no actuall places for sniping tds, because wargaming just don t want that. I don t think it should be like this, but it is and we can do nothing about that. And i don t think i need to add that the actuall spotting system is completly cracked and heavy tanks have wayyyy to big view range, same goes for tds and mediums

fringe orbit
#

Atgms are not unfair. server statistics show that sheridans arent winning any more matches then anyone else. Wargaming said this themselves. I also have seen many sheridans. lose matches many times. Hmmmm. Something fishy is going on here. And I SEE : D so my emotions arent important here. 👍

mental pasture
# fringe orbit So, let me get this right, non sheridan players, people who hate atgms, their em...

"You're tottaly wrong, using charts to compare is even more wrong

As like I've said before; Charts compare a whole tank by itself, how it does in battles and how it can be useful at all. Charts are nothing about Ammo, and the discussion here is about an Ammo

And we may take a "witness" to our court, Tankenstein
At this tank you can use the 130mm cannon of SU-100Y, which have another clearly OP Ammo, almost a 150mm damage for 175mm penetration, but according to any player's witness, it still a balanced tank at last (for don't say that it's actually a little bad)

One ammo type does not change the whole gameplay, then it won't change the Charts, exactly what we can see on Tankenstein

Also, I don't want to look aggressive, but your stats doesn't say that you're wrong or correct, if so, then missiles wouldn't be "deleted" because they would listen to you

Our accusation is exclusively about the missile, not about the tank by itself, then charts aren't a trustworthy comparison. I'm done here"

Now it's the correct text

unique scaffold
#

I bet you 100% this person doesn’t even know sheridan was nerfed around 4-5 times the penetration used to be 250mm APCR and 340 HEAT pair that with cs you get 260+ APCR and 370 HEAT which could penetrate through anything especially with the fact the missiles could attack from the top the missiles even received speed and fuel nerfs because they were too easy to guide and hit even at range then the Sheridan received a nerf to its speed dropping its P/W and later on the penetration was nerfed to 230mm and 310mm 240mm with 340mm when CS is on as a result the Sheridan quickly fell out of favor and was no longer as powerful as it used to be

fringe orbit
#

So, people who dislike the sheridan and claim its unfair, their emotions are important. Game statistics show they arent winning more then anyone else. But my emotions, my dislike for tank destroyers extreme view range is some hpw unjust? My emotions are void because we have differing opinions? Hmmmmmm. Fishy. Ill survive with atgms being removed. My main point is the view range on tds, not the missiles. Im using missiles to show my point. You dislike missiles even though sheridan doesnt have an extremley high win rate. You feel as if your opinion is more valid then mine. Ok well even though you support tds view range i dont. I feel as if yall are treating my feelings as if theyre less than, like their not important. I mean i can teach you how to avoid beung hit by missiles and how to take cover effectively. I can tell you its your fault the same way unknon dude did to me (wich is rude btw). While it will be effective in dodging missiles it will be extremley impractical and take away your focus from other things and be more detrimental then helpful to the team, EXACTLY LIKE UNKNOWN GUYS ADVICE HE GAVE TO ME.

mental pasture
#

I already answered about TD's concealment and about it's winrate

Those arguments are quite old tho @fringe orbit

When arguments are based in feelings, the all the arguments may be biased, which is bad for a discussion.

unique scaffold
#

Because no offense no one cares about feelings it’s about game balance not you everyone recognizes the issue TDs are starting to become because of wargamings management at the moment being also you failed to even read over my statement of the sheridans nerfs (which doesn’t even cover the T92s nerfs which was also another big problem with the missiles) TDs shut down lines and create stalemates which are not that welcomed for the game but flanking and spotting them is the way to take them down

muted rampart
#

Wtf. Who deleted my message?

mental pasture
#

Well, I guess the discussion ended, but I still wondering about that guy only spotted a tank at 8 feet away (about 2.5 meters) even if your enemies can be automatically spotted anyways at 164 feet (50 meters)

Kinda no @remote oriole, they were removed after thousands of complains about it being broken, and it is

nimble zodiac
#

Oh boy I thought we used stats and not emotions when discussing the balance of tanks

uh oh which dogboi

Regardless, dogofwisdom wasn't really arguing with emotion, he made a claim that TDs were slowing the game down, but still have sufficient ways to be countered. Sounds like a logical claim, not an emotional one

remote oriole
#

Missiles were literally removed because of feelings

@mental pasture WG literally said that they removed them because of player reception, not because they were unbalanced

fringe orbit
#

Ah yes dogboi im well aware noone cares about my emotions. But if were going to he rude i must inform you noone cares about yours either. So since were in an uncaring mood your arguments about atgms are void. :) also i have read everything everyone has said. And i am WELL AWARE of every single nerf the sheridan has suffered AT THE HANDS OF YOUR EMOTIONS mr dogboi. Also IS THERE AN ADMIN IN HERE ANYWHERE? I HAVE SOME THINGS ID LIKE TO DISCUSS WITH YOU! : D

hardy hazel
#

I want to be removed because feelings

mental pasture
#

@fringe orbit you're getting kinda mad, I recommend you go out for about 20 minutes only for relax

I mean, it's just a recommendation

fringe orbit
#

Well sevik atm id like to correct nicechoice. Im not a guy. You must be blind bc my profile picture clearly shows im a woman along with my screen name. I mean i can refer to you as the opposite gender if youd like. : / also im not mad (atleast not in the angry usage of the word) im just stating my view point and side of things. Although i am mad about being called a guy. That disturbs me. My recommendation for you is actually pay attention to details and dont call wemon guys.

remote oriole
#

Power creep

Also, ATGMs were removed because of feelings, there is no way around it. You can try and rationalise your feelings as much as you want, it doesn't change that the stats don't support them

winged barn
#

The salt stat greatly increased

I dislike raging people in my matches.

I also dislike getting hit with no way to retaliate

minor plover
#

^

summer mist
#

I'm gonna say it one more time developpers, NERF the Chimera !!
This medium is a joke and WHY would you give the consumable Reactive Armor for a MEDIUM TANK ?! I'm tired of facing it and having it 'cause it just destroy the game thx to his Damage, Armor, and Mobility.

Are you going to keep ignoring those resquets or what ? Broken Tanks are killjoy.

mental pasture
#

@fringe orbit Well, I couldn't know that you don't like this word and I also didn't even know your gender. As I know, "guy" fits for both genders but I may be wrong since English isn't my main language

Anyways, sorry, but I still recommend you to take a time and breath

fringe orbit
#

People are salty without atgms. I also report all of them. Atleast until i have no more reports left (wich angers me). Ive seen many people tell others to kill themselves in real life because they chose to go to a instead of b or simply shot at a diff tank then the one they wanted them to shoot at. Adults being spoiled brats on the inside is the cause of the salt not atgms. Tbh my advice to everyone who rages at others in game chat is GO SEE A THERAPIST. therapists are paid to change your wet diaper. Im not.

distant river
hardy hazel
nimble zodiac
#

@summer mist One problem with nerfing it, the majority of tier 8 heavies.

They sport 400-460 damaging guns, Chimera being at 440. Sure, Chimera is a medium, and can use the mobility given to it as a medium to outpace heavies and fight enemy lights and mediums, so they would stand no comparison with their weaker guns. Until of course you hit the T-34-3 and such, which also sports a high alpha gun. It's not OP vs other mediums, it just has alpha that enemies tend to allow abuse of. Yes, the consumables were pretty unnecessary, but I believe that was a selling point to WG.

@delicate moth refer toSevik's message 16 minutes ago

delicate moth
#

What was wrong with missiles?

dense walrus
#

non-LOS

mental pasture
#

I just guess that WG added them to "buff" tanks tanks without actually buff their stats, I guess they are unnecessary only in certain tanks but fit well in others

summer mist
# nimble zodiac <@!351416931389145090> One problem with nerfing it, the majority of tier 8 heavi...

Well in my case I don't see the point from WG with those consumables 👎 👎 👎
But 440 dmg is unacceptable !! T-34-3 is much more balance thx to his bad accuary on move, depression, and Standard shell PEN. Plus 400 dmg is just the limit for a Medium in Tier VIII. With 440 dmg there's no joy to face this tank in tier VII, I see plenty of players saying "we already lost" 'cause of Chimera platoon.
So WG, if you can read what I just wrote, thank you for never NERFING the Chimera 😠

hardy hazel
nimble zodiac
#

I mean, two ISU-152s in a platoon should be a game ender. Easily snapping 1280-1920 HP off of tanks together, depending on RNG and shell type of course

Easily as in penetration, ISU lolpens T34's gun mantlet, and 252U's

@delicate moth yes, they don't, but many players still have yet to learn about all the capabilities of the missiles. They are too dynamic and unfair for battles

delicate moth
#

But WG stated that the missiles do not perform better than the others?

sinful leaf
#

Missiles aren't a game mechanic that gives a challenge when you're fighting against it, it's just plain annoying or can even be very frustrating because of the fact you have an "Undeniable Advantage". While WG did balance ATGMs so that statistically they were balanced, it doesn't always mean that a game mechanic or tank is balanced. Look at the 183, for example. It's statistics say otherwise about it being anything but a good tank but it is probably not incorrect to assume that many noobs play the tank. Only thing good about it is the hard hitting gun, which if used correctly ends up causing a flank to become campy. Not that the 183 is imbalanced in my opinion, just that there are specific scenarios where the 183 can do really well. In the case of missiles, they are a lot less situational granted you know the basics of using them. Just my two cents.

fringe orbit
#

Sevik who said they were reporting people for using atgms. If your claiming that i said i report people for using atgms them go up and reread. I never said i report people for using atgms. And on that note IF it was me being accused then who is really stupid in tbis situation?

nimble zodiac
#

@fringe orbit oh and about your TD argument. Think of this: Any tank can just sit behind a bush and snipe, even if they shouldn't and have better things to do. Invisible sniping? That can be everyone's job. Shooting over hills to hit people and they can't shoot back? Only two tanks can do that. That's really unfair in my eyes

Yeah :p

@remote oriole like what? Rushing over the hill to kill the one missile tank and then get annihilated by supporting tanks/TDs? Ok

mental pasture
#

I already said that and much more, but apparently, I completely ignored

Actually no, it's not only a unique feature, it's a feature that allows shots that would be forbidden in any other situation, it's kinda broken @remote oriole

remote oriole
#

So unique features and abilities are unfair? You can work around limitations

dense yoke
#

Emil1 just clips an ISU152 till death, which is really annoying.
Also many people think ISU152 is a tank you can just pen easily, which is false. You get a lot of bounces on corner sides/gun-manlet. Same goes with 704, not sure about 268

frail silo
#

@fringe orbit first of all, i wasn't even rude. Owning up to your mistakes is something you should definitely consider.
If you get caught in a bad position and get shot to death by tds it is your fault.
If you know TD spots and still willingly drive infront of them without taking cover it is your fault.
Easy, just develop map awareness and don't just drive around. Literally the point of TDs is to teach you not to be too aggressive or too passive and to count your moves. You are no different from other players. we also learned how to counter tds, map awareness so we don't make any wrong moves that will result in our death.
TDs aren't like ATGMs. They can't shoot from behind cover, they have to pick their spots carefully, they have to put their concealment in mind so they don't get spotted and then shot to death. TDs aren't uncounterable you can learn how to adapt and counter them much like what other players did.
WG says ATGMs aren't broken? They also say Smasher, Annihlator, Obj252u and other premium tanks are fine. Also they got major backlash from them and people argued against them with logic.
There were no (oh ATGMs are unfair because i can't counter them delete pls) the people who argued against ATGMs were fairly good players who could counter them but they used stats and logic. I used both ATGM tanks and on pc it is fairly easy to pop up a missile over a ridge for 500 dmg. Something which a td can't do(for example).

@remote oriole alright buddy.

fringe orbit
#

Ah yes chicken dude think about this, go back and actually read everything ive said. Do it twice or three times if need be. If you think your emotions over ride statistics then its only fair that you accept my emotions over statistics. Unless your an unfair person and think and the people who think like you are the only ones whos emotions are allowed to over ride statistics. : / just sit and think on this. Also unknown boi you were rude. Im not a fan of rude. When i actually make mistakes i do own up to them. Guess your incapable of understanding my view point and MUST HAVE either a video or personal experience to get it.

nimble zodiac
#

"Theres been many times after the buff ive been shot by a tank destroyer that i can not see. Many matches noone has spotted anyone. My team had not spotted an enemy team member nor any enemy spotted any of my team. Im shot almost all the way across the map by an enemy tank destroyer that i can not see. Most of the time they do atleast 400 damage. Can anyone tell me how this is fair? Atgms are getting removed for basically the same reason right?" - @fringe orbit

Idk then, that's how I took it. I considered this message the most and tried to show how TDs were fair and ATGMs weren't. You can't base it straight off statistics, you must consider the stats and abilities of a tank at times. Think about Ferdinand, the stats were good in some updates to apparently no reason, just players playing them well.

unique scaffold
#

Not a balance thing but, it would be rlly nice if we were able to set a custom button for look out area on pc. :)

frail silo
#

@fringe orbit you didn't make any clear situation lol
You just said it is unfair for tds to shoot you while concealed
You didn't specify and you refuse to. Give an example i might be wrong.

mental pasture
#

^

Ma'am @fringe orbit, the question here isn't about "missiles aren't used a lot", it is about how broken they are. Even if they aren't used a lot, they still broken.

Also, if dodge an ATGM shot was that easy, then WG wouldn't remove those

fringe orbit
#

Id love for yall to get online rn, play teir 10s, play 100 matches. After that tell me how many sheridans you see. After that tell me how many actually use missiles vs how many use standard shells. then tell me out of the ones who use missiles how many hit you or your team mates. Again i can teach you how to effectively dodge and avoid getting hit by them if youd like. Or are your emotions about atgms allowed to over ride statistics and my emotions not allowed to?

real bison
#

ah yes, the tank class that is meant to be hidden and as a support class is sniping me from cover, most of the time from obvious positions

nimble zodiac
#

Lol the ATGM pros are busy playing Emil Is and Lorraine 40ts

@orchid grove she, as she prefers o-o

dense yoke
#

If atgms pros are playing Lorrain
"prepare to for trouble
and make it double
ISU OUT"

orchid grove
#

So I went back and skimmed this, and as I understand it, this guy is just salty that he got ninja-bushed and thus thinks TDs are OP?

sinful leaf
#

Since when did the amount of people using the mechanic relate to how ATGMs are balanced? I don't have a hard time dealing with ATGMs, but I find them annoying to play against because you have to overcome an unfair advantage.

fringe orbit
#

@orchid grove im not a guy. Im a woman. Im truly question your eyes and intellectual capacity right now. And no im not salty. I simply came in and started a discussion. This is yhe balance discussion section last time i checked. Yall are just perceiving things in a hostile salty way. In unknowns famous words thats your fault. Also unknown if you want specific scenarios maby ask? Also if you want specific scenarios of me telling you why and how td view rage can be/is unfair i want descriptive scenarios on how atgms can be/are unfair. And again im a woman not a guy. Dont be blind or lacking. Ty

real bison
#

@fringe orbit my pfp is a female, but I’m not female

nimble zodiac
#

"Kinda fishy your first message is in this channel about that specific scenario and you never clarified what tank or type you were playing so did you just join only to say that"

  • dogofwisdom

It has been implied

frail silo
#

@fringe orbit lol have you seen how many players played the tank when it came out?
Just because there isn't much people with it now doesn't mean it is balanced. Again poping up a missile over a ridge and dealing over 500 damage is easy especially on pc
You can't rush me because my team will annihlate you, or i can just run away.
I can probably shoot you without getting spotted
I can outspot you because i am a light
I am way faster than you.
All of those plus the the indirect engagement with you. And out trading you in most cases.
And it is balanced? Lol.

lights and mediums have better view range than TDs, TDs rely on them to spot for them other wise a td is most likely to die if it does so by itself.
And yes i am asking for scenarios where tds are unbalanced and unfair.

orchid grove
#

@fringe orbit Sorry bout that, I just assume everyone on the internet is a dude unless otherwise specified (especially on a tank game).

Anyway TDs have less view range than most classes, and this is made worse by the fact that they usually run camo net as opposed to other classes that run optics.

The reason that view range mechanics are fair is because they’re pretty much a fundamental part of how the game works, and even though you can’t see them, unlike missile tanks, you can actually still shoot them. And being able to ninja bush people isn’t relegated to just TDs

https://media3.giphy.com/media/VIKtEG0qAciZbPMKQv/giphy.gif

Giphy
fringe orbit
#

@real bison . No your pfp is of an anime character. And it sounds af if your claiming im not a woman or trying to justify someone saying im not a woman. Its quite evident by my pfp and my screen name. I mean i cam assume all of you are 13 year old girls and treat you as such. : / @nimble zodiac i have done nothing fishy. Id love a detailed report on what exactly is fishy. @orchid grove but you FEEL that tds view range is fair and i FEEL as if their not. Yall FEEL as if atgms are unfair i FEEL as if their not. If yall want to bring in statistics YOU MUST BRING IN STATISTICS FOR BOTH ARGUMENTS TO HE FAIR. I CLEARLY RECALL WARGAMING THEMSELVES SAYING ATGMS ARE BEING REMOVED BECAUSE OF EMOTIONS AND NOT STATISTICS. matter of fact you can ever read where war gaming said this both on the website and in the game its self. Also @orchid grove. I forgive you. Lol

nimble zodiac
#

@fringe orbit I was quoting dogofwisdom, a case where he asks for a situation where TDs are OP and unbalanced, indirectly. I used it just to refute the claim that nobody asked for a specific situation, in the verdict that at least someone did

Also you're assuming it's his actual feelings, but they're based on a key mechanic to the game, that has been there the whole time of it's 6+ years, unless I am mistaken

frail silo
#

@fringe orbit you kidding right? You do realize that we are talking based on statistics right? The only person here who is using his feelings is you. that and you probably ignore half of what we type.

Oh and you still didn't provide a situation where TDs are broken
You have been asked a total of 3 times.

mental pasture
#

@fringe orbit Ma'am, actually it's not good to assume people's gender based on the image and nickname since we are on internet. Even I have used a female pfp for bait people.

(I know it's kinda off-topic, but a real fact)

nimble zodiac
#

We're not disregarding your statistics because they are yours, we're disregarding them because they don't accurately reflect the abilities and stats of the tank. Of course they can show how OP a tank is when generalized, but again, good stats like Ferdinand's, don't show how good it is accurately, it's mediocre at best

@fringe orbit we're editing our messages, right click or press and hold your message to be able to edit it, make sure to break off a new paragraph, as it helps discern what's a new message edit. And mostly males play this game, so we assume such, of course, you have hinted otherwise

fringe orbit
#

@frail silo. Rewriting this bc it apparently didnt send. You dont deserve for me to explain anything to you. Your gas lighting. Im a woman and ive explained this many times. Dont be biased and assuming. Her not his. Proper term is her not his. KNOW WHO GOT ME INTO THIS GAME? MY SISTER AND HER BF. WEMON PLAY VIDEOGAMES TOO. Cant believe this is the "official" dicord for this game. And why can yall send messages faster then me? I have ti wait 10 minutes between each message. ALSO SIDE NOTE FOR YALL. ME AND MY SISTER ARENT THE ONLY WEMON WHO PLAY THIS GAME.

turbid smelt
#

@fringe orbit chill with the caps, lel

frail silo
#

@fringe orbit the correct way of saying it would be their, also pardon me i am not good with the pronouns thing i subconciously just say his so again pardon me if i offended you.
And i know "women" play videogames again i didn't mean any hurtful thing.
Also we have to wait 10 minutes between each message.
If i don't deserve any explanation from you, then why would you deserve one? Besides you assumed i am guy which is correct but neither my pfp or my name imply that i am one. Kinda ironic eh? Let's just forget this because this ain't the place.

Also for how long have you been playing this game?

mental pasture
#

Let's also mention, there's no statistics to show how broken missiles are because there's also no chart about how useful some ammunition can be

As I said, those stats on charts are exclusively about Sheridan, not about missiles. One broken ammo doesn't change much the WR, we can see this effect on SU-100Y and on Tankenstein (both share the same broken prammo but both have normal WRs)

Let's remember that here is #tank-balance-discussion, not other things, let's keep the topic before moderators go booooom

turbid smelt
#

su 100y and tankenstien don't have broken ammo

they lose penetration to do a bit more damage

olive sorrel
#

omg I'm wamen your logic and intelligence is lowered because you thought I was a guy omg did you know the ability of you to guess whether I'm male or female is directly related to your knowledge of game mechanics, meta and logic?

fringe orbit
#

@mental pasture im perectly fine keeping the discussion about the game. But i will correct someone if need be. No matter how many times that takes. Unless of course it gets to be too much and i simply leave. @frail silo. I can give you a specific scenario. I was angry at the fact i was again called a dude. But its all water under the bridge. Ive been playing the game on and off for a few years now. At first i just thought it was an ok game. But it grew on me the more i played it. And atm because of my health i cant really physically do alot so i play it quite often now. The account im on is a new account. I had 1 otjer older account but it was linked to google play and now days i play on my amazon tablet. So i linked this account to my facebook. @olive sorrel. What are you on about. Seems like your trolling and being childish. Super uncool.

nimble zodiac
#

Edit your message and type away your scenario :D

mental pasture
#

But we know that 175mm is enough to penetrate most of the tanks on tier 6-7. That damage is pretty heavy and at least on SU-100Y it's quite broken @turbid smelt

Well, anyone here want problems with moderators if they come and complain about off-topic, neither you, right @fringe orbit? That was just a little advise, but you can continue to do this by your own risk.

Useful tip: if you hold your finger on the message, you can choose to edit it. That's what we are doing. Ah Well, seems you already learned it

sinful leaf
#

I don't really see a problem with the SU-100Y aside from the fact that you're literally throwing your wallet of credits to do more damage every time you choose to fire premium. Not that I have a real problem with it, because Tier 7 is broken and hell for tier 6.

orchid grove
#

@fringe orbit In terms of feeling, I have a simple philosophical doctrine.

Does it make the game more fun?

In the case of missiles, a very sizable portion of the playerbase finds that they make the game less fun. Even if they're statistically balanced, lots of players find ATGMs to be unfun and frustrating to play against, since they can shoot you from behind cover, and since they are a fairly recent addition to the game, they have a lot more to "prove" so to speak

In the case of camouflage/view range mechanics, they're a fundamental part of how the game works, and good camouflage values are not unique to TDs. Unlike missiles, the playerbase doesn't really have a problem with them on the whole since they're a critical balance factor, and the mechanics are not unique to one tank, and again, unlike missiles, you can still shoot back at an unspotted enemy

turbid smelt
#

how is su 100y broken
it is massive td, with no armor, meh camo rating, meh view range, okish mobility and a good gun(kinda what tds are supposed to be) ?
@mental pasture

olive sorrel
#

@fringe orbit oops I thought you were being childish assuming a person had less knowledge on the game/meta just because of a wrongful perception of gender 🤣 SuPer unCool mAam

fringe orbit
#

@orchid grove. You can blind fire at an unspotted enemy sure. But its basically a waste of ammo and takes your focus away from more important tasks. @mental pasture. I really am unsure what your trying to say. And if moderators have a problem with me correcting people who call me a dude. Well then this discord is really not worth my time and id happily leave on my own. @olive sorrel Ima just block you I really dont wanna deal with that level of ignorance. Unless someone knows how i can report him bc ill do that if i can. Bc you apparently incapable of comprehending anything if written. Your school teachers should be fired tbh. Show me where i said someone knows less about the game bc they assumed i was a dude.

frail silo
#

@fringe orbit i just want a scenario where tds are broken and uncounterable to have more clarity on your situation.
Also adding to what positive said, a tank like RHM, No armor, slow, bad gun handling
All it has going for it is camo and alpha(plus prammo)
If you nerf the concealment of such tank it will render it useless

nimble zodiac
#

So TDs are not “more important tanks”? Are they not a threat if you think blind shotting is impractical?

mental pasture
#

Yeah the gun is good but that shell literraly can one shot tier some tanks or take more than 60% of some tier 6 tanks, it also have a good pen for that tier

Well, that's just my opinion and from some other people too @turbid smelt

Here goes another advise, better you both (@fringe orbit @olive sorrel) stopping to be so rude to each other, if a moderators see this, there goes a warn or a mute

Just trying to be friendly ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

olive sorrel
#

Yep sure, what do you think of M48 Patton buff? Does it need armour buff or is it fine or can we only tell when it's rolled out

dark pike
#

it should have gotten the m60's armor buff aswell, why play patton when stb and t 62a exists?

turbid smelt
#

@mental pasture reeee /tableflip

drowsy plaza
#

The M48 turret is currently better than the M60 even using the M60’s extra degree of gun depression.

fringe orbit
#

Also the scenario is this. I dont know what td it was specifically but i know its happened to me in the chaffee, bulldog, and i think the leopard too. Usually on oasis palms and desert sands. Noone will have spotted ANYONE. not friemdly nor foe. Only one spotted is me by the enemy td. Me and 2 maby 3 other tanks turned into the dunes. We will barley be out of spawn. Then all of a sudden light bulb above my head and im 1 shot killed. I will barely have left spawn. And if the tds are as immobile as everyone says theres no way they left spawn. Noone will have spotted anyone other then the enemy td spotting me and in that second 1 shot killing me. Again i barely was away from spawn.

drowsy plaza
#

@fringe orbit if that is happening you’re either driving out of spawn very late or driving in the open

unique scaffold
#

Desert sands is notorious for having a TD sit on the ends of the rails if you get spotted in dunes you take cover if your spotted on the opposite end of the track your doomed

rare sleet
#

Once you play enough you'll get the hang of complete map awareness at all times, when i feel like im spotted before the lightbulb even comes up i try to get into cover on a map with alot of TD positions

frail silo
# fringe orbit Also the scenario is this. I dont know what td it was specifically but i know it...

desert sands? TD's just have to drive left or right to get to their sniping points they are not far they spawn next to them.
also you might have got spotted by enemy's light/medium tanks and moved out of spawn later
the point i am talking about in the end of the rails have a view on the entire desert area, you can neglect it by driving behind the hills and not climbing them
TD's in tier 7 can't spot that far by the way.
also i will say this again, TD's don't have a good view range, mediums and lights have that.
also the light bulb appears only 3 seconds after you are spotted.

@mental pasture exactly.

mental pasture
#

Sometimes you don't even need the bulb to know that you're spotted, here goes the useful tip time

Useful tip: if you know that there's enemies 200m away from you and you shot 'em, be away that you will probably be spotted anyways. Shooting decrease a lot your concealment and can also deactivate nearby bushes effect. Sometimes it's much better to leave your enemy be than shoot it before think twice.

Well, sometimes 3 seconds is enough for a death, mostly if you're on a paper tank

turbid smelt
#

bushes under 15m get deactivated, after firing for few sec
you can tell bush is under 15m with range finder or by it being transparent in zoom
so back out until it turns opaque

rare sleet
# fringe orbit Also the scenario is this. I dont know what td it was specifically but i know it...

Try to be aware of all the enemy tanks on the enemy team, figure out what kind of positions they could be in, figure out what good positions you could be in to counter, there's a lot of thinking about map awareness, check the mini-map constantly. Always be aware of the surroundings especially in a lightly armored tank. I've learned this through playing the Japanese medium line. Those tanks have no armor. are quite large targets and aren't very fast. You got to be on your feet and aware because if you make big mistakes you could have High explosive rounds absolutely murdering you. Since you mentioned playing in Chaffee or bulldog, as a light tank you should always be moving never stop in the open where TDs could have direct line of fire with you. Try to spot for your team, find those pesky tank destroyers and get out. Light tanks greatest defense it is fast and therefore hard to hit over longer distances. If you can do this, you'll be giving tank destroyers and others a harder time hitting you. Also BTW the lighbulb is a few seconds late from the time you're spotted

mental pasture
#

Concealment mechanics on realistic mode are quite funny, it's like "You aren't always spotted, but when you know that you're spotted, it's because you got a shot"

@scarlet hazel you kinda can do it in a fail toon (When you're making a platoon with a tank that is one tier above or bellow your tank)
For exemple, if you play a tier 8 tank and make a platoon with a tier 9 tank, then you can see tier 10 ones

fringe orbit
#

@drowsy plaza. I was driving out with my group as soon as wr could move. And i stay behind cover when i can. Again i wouldnt be complaing about this if i felt it was fair. And alot of times i feel like it wasnt my fault. @rare sleet. I can name more then a few light tanks that are not fast at all.

scarlet hazel
#

hmmm a game mode where its +2-2 match making

rare sleet
frail silo
# fringe orbit <@131422328968970240>. I was driving out with my group as soon as wr could move....

it might not be your fault, in that case the enemy team player outsmarted you.
either don't indicate that TDs are balanced
Bulldog and German Bulldog are one of my favorite tanks
despite being tall and armor-less i can still bull out very good games in them.
as long as there is a TD i am extremely cautious with my movement so i don't get caught in a bad position.
i always look out for obvious TD spots and bushes, poke around corners carefully and such.
you should play accordingly to your tanks characteristics and the enemy team. it is a competitive strategy game, this is the point of it.
i am sorry but your situation still doesn't validate your claim.
you can check the view ranges of TDs and LTs/MTs and you will find out that LTs have better viewrange.

mental pasture
#

He kinda got a good point

fringe orbit
#

The bulldog is one of the tanks i do the absolute best in. I do decent in most lights and mediums. I suck with heavies and tds. Looking through my statistics rn. Actually suprised how good i did with the t1. Very suprised. And i know im not the greatest. We all learn something with every match. But i still feel like some of these tds have an extremley unfair advantage.

nimble zodiac
#

I’d be happy to help show where TDs are usually camping in maps you choose if you prefer

mental pasture
#

Well, when you're in a light, you might be the glass sniper terror

On higher tier, lights have enough view range to spot easily TDs that aren't like E25 after a shot
You may get some damage, but at least, your enemy will get spotted (if it's until like 230 meters) and you allies can do their job

There's also some spotting tricks that WG teaches for WOT, but they also work perfectly fine for WOTB too@fringe orbit

https://youtu.be/RMF82fz4kDk this video is really worth a peek, don't mind if it's for WOT, WOTB have the same spotting mechanics (unless that circles of minimap, but I'm quite sure that all other things are the same)

YouTube
Wargaming Europe
World of Tanks - Explaining Mechanics: Visibility System

What are the vehicle checkpoints and view range ports? What do they do? What do all the circles on the minimap mean?
You can find answers to all these questions in the latest Amusing Mechanics video! Happy viewing!

To keep up to date with our latest development, contests and events visit http://worldoftanks.eu/

Follow us on
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▶ Play video
noble quail
dense walrus
noble quail
#

But I think the M48 and M60 will still be the same because both are getting buffs

orchid grove
#

@drowsy plaza It's a common misconception that M48 turret is better, when the two tanks have basically identical turrets

📎 unknown.png
thick rover
#

Interesting

hearty steeple
#

Yikes didn't realize the turret was that paper. The hitskins are always misleading but still

jagged crescent
#

thats why you wiggle and not sit too long

nimble zodiac
#

Even dance and wiggle

sudden path
#

That's why the stb is better in every single way

austere citrus
#

Just buff the mobility for the m48 and m60. They are pretty sluggish tbh. Doing that will make them better

jagged crescent
#

ok smoothbrain

crystal spoke
#

He's actually right itll make them better just not in the way the need to be

orchid grove
#

Just mega buff the gun handling to like .08/.08 and buff up the view range, like how it's supposed to be

austere citrus
#

Wow they nerfed the AMX M4 MLE 54 hard. Based on paper stats, it looks more balanced now. That turret is still OP though. the dpm isnt that good now the hull armor is easily penned

jagged crescent
#

I wouldn't call hull armor that rivals an IS4's front as easily penned

mental pasture
#

Not at all, it's easily penned if you're a Jagdpanzer E100 @jagged crescent

That's the point ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

honest obsidian
#

When i first played this game...

jagged crescent
#

ur in a jageroo, what else do you expect

verbal thistle
shut ruin
#

M46 Patton needs a bit of a buff...
And before you start complaining please let me explain

The M46 Patton cannot penn the sides of a Maus with its Prammo and callibrated shells at 400 meters. That is, even if it hits its shell. Because at 400 meters a Panzerkampfwagen VIII Maus fits 4!!! times inside the aiming circle of an M46 Patton even when facing it sideways. Also the bloom of an M46 Patton is so large it misses shells even in close combat and circling. This is all with top gun and callibrated shells by the way

noble quail
#

For me, The M46 patton gun is generally ok for me, although the AP pen needs a bit of a buff, 217mm of standard pen (without Calibrated shells) if I remember correctly.

Yeah, it needs a bit of a pen buff

verbal thistle
#

Honestly M46 needs a bit of pen buff and a turret buff

full token
#

Yay more hulldown meds

shut ruin
#

@full token better than having a tank thats utterly useless for pretty much everything

full token
#

Obv, it’s a buff, so it’ll improve it. It’s just, I think it can do with some other buff, not a turret buff

mossy wraith
thick rover
#

In my honest opinion pershing might need a buff, M46 is good, but M48 needs a buff too. Can only speak for tier 8-10

remote oriole
#

I don’t know which tanks you play but the M46 Patton is a bit of a crown jewel in the line that plays a lot like the Type 61 that traded the turret weakspot for pen. Its dpm is almost tier ten worthy and while it derps sometimes the accuracy is reliable enough to regularly ramp up a lot of damage under all circumstances.

The only real issue with those dpm glass cannon mediums like itself, the Leopard 1 or whatever else comes to your mind when I use that expression is that they are absolutely not meta, and even if they were they are far from easy to play. Not much fun to play under the current circumstances

minor plover
pseudo hedge
#

It's not. Load premium and its paper for almost every other T8.

noble quail
#

Imagine having 225 alpha in tier 7, but you need a gun rammer just to get 2k dpm

IMO that's the problem with the T20, and the Pershing has a similar problem

unique scaffold
#

Maybe little nerf for annihilator

frosty oriole
#

Lol doesn't fcm have 225 alpha but also needs gun rammer to reach 2k

mental pasture
#

@verbal thistle it's not the dumbest, it's a fact

AMX M4 mle. 54 may have almost impenetrable frontal armor, but not for Jagdpanzer E100

dense yoke
#

Give E4 super consumables. The line is struggling to keep up with E3 line, you can even say it is struggling to keep up with tds line.
Give the consumables to T28 prototype, T30, T110e4.
I would love if op consumables were given to T25/2.

unique scaffold
#

Tbh I don’t think even the consumables would cover the e4s faults

humble flint
#

BC 25t needs 2,5 interclip reload or 350 average damage to make 3 second interclip not so painful

dense yoke
#

Why not give it 2s interclip reload? 2s interclip 3*310

mental pasture
#

Might because that's quite an "hey wanna make TVP born obsolete?" Buff @dense yoke

The point of TVP is spray high damage fastly after a real long reload

Bat Chat may have a smaller alpha, but actually DPM out TVP because the full reload (all intraclips + clip reload) is even faster than the Czech clip reload

#

Nowadays, if I was interested about buffing Bat chat, I would like 8 degrees of gun depression instead of a faster intraclip (if this is actually possible by the design)

frosty oriole
#

We already have sheri and Vickers with 10 degs

muted rampart
#

yeah

mental pasture
#

Yeah, kinda, but I don't see any other buff on Bat Chat that wouldn't actually affect too negatively the TVP

Remove 0.2 secs from intraclip reload is, almost officially, the most useless buff of the WOTB

turbid smelt
#

2.8s intra reload poOOGgggg

verbal thistle
unique scaffold
#

Your way off but ok it’s 370 CS average or 320 (for the weaker premium ammo) and 260-270 AP pen average

mental pasture
#

@verbal thistle it's not exactly a comparison to say that the armor is actually bad, it's very good, just not enough for the jageroo

south knot
#

Buff AT series. They can't even pen

dense yoke
#

Wouldn't it be lovely if At series from tier 7-9 get super consumables? The armor, hp consumables

sonic lark
#

Also super speed consumable

muted rampart
#

nah i think at 8 and at 15 are really good now. sam about at 2. only at 7 and tortoise are still falling apart. at 7 needs just better frontal armor and tortoise needs it s coupola removed and way better frontal hull armor

full token
#

Why consumables? They’re quite dumb to use as balancing methods. Better to just do a normal buff...

dense yoke
#

There isn't even a point in having a cupola on tortoise.
tier 9 and tier 10 can just pen its frontal side Armor (with normal shells) (258), which is unfair.
Unlike Jagdtiger which you can only pen its lower plate with (normal shells) (258)
We either buff frontal side Armor on tortoise, or add to the tortoise super consumable (Armor, hp, Speed) or we don't touch it at all.

minor minnow
fallow eagle
#

Cupola buff on e4 should make it balanced
Even though gun depression is bad,e3 needs that advantage over e4

dense yoke
versed tide
#

^

mental pasture
dreamy niche
#

Annihilator needs a nerf. Tired of running into platoons of them.

fallow eagle
#

Yes,it's one of the things e4 should sacrifice to have a turret
Otherwise why would you use e3 if e4 had no cupola weakness as well as same gun depression and consumables along with a turret

full token
#

E4 has weaker armor even if you remove the cupola weakspot

devout flower
#

Make the cupola stronger or remove it. That is how you make the e4 solid again. Currently its one of the worst performing tier 10 tanks.

nocturne mauve
#

E4 is trash

unique scaffold
#

It’s not trash it’s just average

supple nacelle
#

Leopard 1 needs a buff :v

winged barn
#

Hell no, buff your skills.

unique scaffold
#

LOL Leo 1 is by far one of the best meds in game.

dense yoke
#

Leopard is the best tank destroyer.
Yes 👍
Yes 🍏

sullen jolt
#

E4 is good(atleast in my opinion)

orchid grove
#

@devout flower I would personally just give E4 more gun stats, probably better accuracy and more DPM. I’m not a huge fan of the armor buff because it’s not really meant to be a heavy tank, and if you buff the armor, it will always be a crappy heavy tank with 1k less HP. E4 is first and foremost a TD, but with a turret for flexibility, so the emphasis should be on gun stats.

jagged crescent
#

Gun depression pleaseee

unique scaffold
#

How about the Leo pta gets a gun depression buff

jagged crescent
#

Absolutely not, Anomaly and Ecchi has clearly demonstrated how op it is against t10s even when its stock 😠

novel hemlock
#

nerf T1 Heavy

winged barn
#

Leo pta= bad stock t92 /trash vickers cr

scarlet fjord
#

Make IS-7 mobility greater
in PC it can go 60
which in blitz that would be less since maps are smaller but can we buff
acceleration traverse and top speed by a touch?
cuz its accuracy and 303 APCR is kinda meh tbh
plus very fast heavies are extremely fun
fun vehicles = more game time on IS-7 which is a good thing for wargaming xd

hardy hazel
#

Fun fact: Blitz and pc are diferent games

Yeah, but still, blitz and pc wot are different games

sullen jolt
#

IS7 is a magnet for gold ammo.

dense yoke
rare sleet
unique scaffold
#

Fun fact:
The sky is blue

novel hemlock
#

Fun Fact:

T-34 is a Soviet Tank

grand prairie
#

Lmao

unique scaffold
novel hemlock
#

Fun Fact:

True

dense yoke
#

You either buff E4 or nerf E3.
---
@rare sleet Wargaming

muted rampart
#

Fun fact:

nobody cares about your fun facts

unique scaffold
#

Hello

spark star
#

again I am asking for a smasher nerf regarding a reduction in its penetration and accuracy,

do the right thing already and nerf it down, its completely stupid to see a tier 7 heavy that clubs tier 8 heavies like they're nothing

nerf down the damage on the HE, make the gun less reliable

jagged crescent
#

or nerf the penetration of its heat rounds

grand prairie
#

What do u guys think are the most underrated tanks currently in the game. And do u guys think that older players should be aloud to get one OLD tech tree tank for free or for $ because I and a lot of other people I think would love that

trail scaffold
#

No

jagged crescent
#

You heard of restoration right

crystal spoke
#

Id probably say either the m4 rev or athe t25 pilot are the most underrated tanks both are very good

scarlet fjord
#

i didnt say they are the same i just said that the PC version have an interesting idea on its mobility
which they can do lol

grand prairie
#

M4 yes but I’m not still sure about the t25 pilot. But I’ll say that the B1 is pretty insane

wise dirge
#

I would like to point out that the vickers CR has been miles above every other tier 9 on the chart things for months now and still hasn’t been nerfed in any way

sinful leaf
#

I would say that T20 is underrated for the poor state it's currently in, though it's not underrated without reason because it's been massively powercreeped.

crystal spoke
#

Generally when referring to something thats underrated it means the object is good but looked over but I dont think the T20 holds up to the good part and definitely needs a buff

sudden path
#

It's just if I have to choose between the cr and the light I'm playing the light because the cr is sluggish, and fast is more fun, even if the cr is better tier for tier. I also like not getting uptiered 3 out of 4 games

unique scaffold
#

Just saying e4 needs a buff, maybe removing/strengthen the hatch and increasing the rate of fire to make it competitive in tournaments.

plush scroll
#

Gotta say that the superpershing needs heavy status: Now that heavies got buff it was powercreeped

turbid smelt
#

it was poop before and still is poopoo

dark pike
#

superpershing still needs a accuracy buff

mental pasture
#

A hull armor buff would be cool tho, it was meant to have at least a useful armor but welp

turbid smelt
#

lol pens front with 200mm of pen

unique scaffold
#

The spotting of other tanks is soooo bad, they shoot me and i dont see where they are

dense walrus
#

@unique scaffold might want to watch this https://youtu.be/RMF82fz4kDk

YouTube
Wargaming Europe
World of Tanks - Explaining Mechanics: Visibility System

What are the vehicle checkpoints and view range ports? What do they do? What do all the circles on the minimap mean?
You can find answers to all these questions in the latest Amusing Mechanics video! Happy viewing!

To keep up to date with our latest development, contests and events visit http://worldoftanks.eu/

Follow us on
Facebook: http://ww...

▶ Play video
unique scaffold
#

Thanks

fierce crag
#

I wonder why WG dont nerf smasher,it's absoulutely a mistake,and completely OVERPOWERED,i dont know what u are thinking about

#

it's UNBALANCED,but i wonder if WG simply sell it for money,ignoring other player's thinkings,it has been a long time,on Blitzstars,CANT YOU EVEN SEE ITS DATA IS SO SUPERIOR?

#

Even a 45-winrate-guy could get 1.8k DPB on smasher,you call it a BALANCE?

hardy hazel
#

smasher is the money print of wg, now is getting shadowed by annihilator wich is next tank wg is going to milk till the last drop.
even if i want both tanks nerfed, i dont know if wg will ever nerf them, but this tier 7 600 alpha stupid armor heavy tank trend should stop.

fierce crag
#

ann is a prem tank,so there is no way to nerf,otherwise WG will be prosecuted,but smasher is not,collector tanks can be nerfed because its not lawly a commodity,also,ann isnt that disgusting,smasher is danger even for best t8 tanks,and that is why it need to be nerfed,We want a balance environment,otherwise,there are 7 prem OP tanks on both side at last,it is WG whowant to make it to that situation

dense walrus
#

Premiums can and have been nerfed

hardy hazel
#

i think you got it wrong, wg can and did nerf premium tanks in the past, also, annihilator is as op as smasher or even better because armor and less reload time, and having 1 smasher/anni in each side is a battle to see who has the best op tank driver, and it looks stupid if you ask me.
Also, the fact that most noobs use them as snipers is annoying, most of the time all 3 shots hit me when im far away doing stuff, where is the fun in that? 😐

mental pasture
#

@fierce crag WG just don't nerf them because nerfing OP premiums doesn't give 💰

@fierce crag you know Type 59 and how WG changed it's stats on last years?

verbal thistle
turbid smelt
#

@verbal thistle why so?

full token
#

Nothing changed about their power to nerf the premiums. They just don’t like to do it

austere citrus
#

Ngl 10$ annihilator was well worth

dense walrus
#

@verbal thistle how so? as TacNayn said they just try to avoid it, nothing preventing them from nerfing the Annihilator into the ground if they so chose.

verbal thistle
dense walrus
#

@verbal thistle There is no policy, and yes they have. E75 TS and Vk168 were both nerfed post-release.

mental pasture
#

I guess that people should start to read the game EULA before talking about in-game policies, lmao

I would really like to see where in game EULA it says that premium tanks will never be nerfed

warped condor
#

buff the T20

noble quail
#

^

Yes, also the Pershing

When are the tanks that deserve a buff gonna be buffed?

dark pike
#

ask wg's balance department and their weird decision-making

dense yoke
#

Premium can be nerfed, but it is highly unlikely that Wargaming will nerf smasher.

verbal thistle
dense walrus
#

Naturally

warped condor
#

yep. They don't care about the tanks unless they are Russian, or Premium. but hey atleast they are giving a tiny buff to the patton

noble quail
#

The T1 heavy needs a bit of a nerf IMO, Seal clubbers play that tank to carry the game, and I think it was already good in the first place

But I don't pay too much attention to tier 5 tho, so maybe it's not anymore the case.

I'm just thinking that newbies will not easily counter it when the player using that T1 heavy knows how to play the game

mental pasture
#

Well, if you aren't a seal clubber or a new player too, then I guess you won't have much problems with T1 heavy

#

Well, then it is quite a problem

fallow eagle
#

Buff obj 140

jaunty tree
#

@fallow eagle pen buff?

turbid smelt
#

delete it, simple buff and tank would be out of its misery

muted rampart
#

@turbid smelt maybe give it old turret armor 😆 😆 😆

dense yoke
#

Nerf Annihilator Gun depression to 7 depression, frontal turret to 170, Make his alpha on ap to 180 per shot, gold shell make it to 150 and nerf turret turning speed.

late zephyr
#

Nah, Ap damage 150 is enough, gold 110,... 450 - 550 still enough...
Tier 6 officialy dead....

dense yoke
#

I mean i hate this tank.
It has 2700 dpm while a tier 8 example is3 has 1800 dpm.
It destroys light tanks and is very hard to circle.
While having strong turret and trollish armor.
and it has super consumables.
Example T26E5 has 2500 dpm with gun rammer and anni has 2700 dpm.
and it is not even in the same tier! It is a tier below!

noble quail
#

Yeah, that's my problem with the annihilator

turbid smelt
#

sta 1 is ok

modern tree
#

Smasher is unbalanced

spark star
#

Daily thread no 3 of nerf the Smasher for god's sake when is it getting a nerf

modern tree
#

^

orchid grove
#

@dense walrus Neither were touched though?
Type 59's only nerf on Blitz was the removal of +2/-2MM @sinful leaf

sinful leaf
#

I don't recall E 75 TS getting a nerf. VK 168 I'm unsure about but Type 59 yes

stone ether
#

isu122s has 3.5k dpm tho

late zephyr
#

But i dont see any good players in it..m

stone ether
#

vk168 needs to get a better armor

sinful leaf
#

Well to begin with, any of those tanks listed never used to be ridiculously overpowered, so the argument that WG can nerf premiums when they probably won't nerf overpowered premiums/collectors is kinda flawed. As for T-22 it wasn't really OP, it's just overrated.

noble quail
#

is it just me or tier 7 lightly armoured mediums get rekt by the AT 15?

orchid grove
#

@sinful leaf Well, none of those tanks were actually nerfed

ruby garden
#

Hi,is lttb, good?

sweet prism
#

yes...use the second gun it has 8 degree gun depression

stone ether
#

wg wont nerf the prems or smasher

hearty steeple
#

that looks like a clear nerf but i cant remember what was going on last year

and ts was sold in 6.3 i believe

📎 unknown.png
dense walrus
orchid grove
#

@dense walrus Those weren't actual nerfs, they were changes to the client side collision model to reflect what was actually on the server, because before these changes, the hitskins were completely inaccurate

autumn zodiac
#

@hearty steeple they tried to "fix" the issue with the spaced armor appearing red when shooting at it but obviously it didn't do much E 75 TS hasn't been nerfed

muted rampart
#

Yeah. Only Premium nerfs was: type 59 back in the day and low tier Premiums in 5.5 update. I mean they changed them into collectibles and then nerfed, but nerf is a nerf

dense walrus
winged barn
#

They changed how the hitskin looks to make it look less broken

And it's still broken af

(Hitskin broken, not the tank)

minor minnow
#

Yeah unfortunately, up until recently with the whole E75TS spam that happened I had no clue I could pen the sides at certain angles

full token
#

@dense walrus Helsing was added in 3.2 (Ik the link isn’t a WG website but I’m going to trust that the date in that and the update for when the Helsing was added is accurate. The 4.2 Blitzhangar page linked above shows a Helsing nerf, but on the final patch notes (linked below), they haven’t shown any nerf. I doubt they’d do such nerfs and not mention it at all. So the Blitzhangar page must’ve been from the Open Test at that time.

http://www.itechpost.com/articles/39870/20161012/halloween-world-of-tanks-blitz.htm
https://na.wotblitz.com/en/news/updates/balance-in-update-4-2/

iTech Post
World Of Tanks: Blitz 3.2; Features Night Hunt Events For Halloween

It's officially Halloween season and World of Tanks: Blitz is ready to invite you to a fun and dark event that will surely pump up your energy in this season of trick or treat! World of Tanks Blitz gives each bold participant a chance to choose between the eternal battling forces of Light or Dark and from there, all the fun begins.

World of Tanks Blitz: an action-packed MMO with PvP battles

The legendary tank shooter. Fight in 7vs7 team battles alone or with friends, research and upgrade armored vehicles, experiment with different tactics and win. Choose a tank and join the battle!

dense walrus
#

@full token blitzhangar frequently posts finalized changes that were not included in the official patch notes.

wooden gazelle
#

@dense walrus The Helsing was soft nerfed by the removal of the gunner crew member, forcing the commander to take that role, which means no 10% (or more due to food) commander buff to that specific crew member's major qualifications, which means the second shot specifically is noticeably less accurate.

hearty steeple
unique scaffold
#

NERF annihilator pls

drowsy plaza
#

Annihilator needs a mobility and follow on shot dispersion nerf

minor minnow
#

Tbh I think the mobility would be fine if the gun behaved similarly to the Helsing’s gun, where the bloom is a lot higher

drowsy plaza
#

The super speed boost makes that tank a much larger threat.

unique scaffold
#

a less dpm, it's basically the damage of a KV2 HE every 7 s

hardy hazel
austere citrus
#

Emil 1 now has a lower winrate than T1 heavy tank.

crystal shuttle
#

Buff the Armor of T54e1?

versed tide
twilit crystal
#

i think emil 2 should lose the autoreloader and have the same dpm with autoloader but get the turret buff, Kranvagn on the other hand should just get a gun elevation buff and maybe a depression buff to 10 but not needed Emil 1 needs a mega nerf

full token
#

Why lose the autoreloader?

drowsy plaza
#

I’m guessing because the turret buff, and if it was the same as the Kranvagn it would be OP in tier 8/9 games with the same setup as the Kranvagn

karmic steeple
#

It doesn’t need a drastic change emil 2 just needs the same turret effectiveness as the emil 1 and kran do for their tier

jagged crescent
#

id prob add like 15 mm

gloomy gull
#

Are they buffing helsing

full token
#

No they wouldn’t. It doesn’t need one. It’s pretty good already

twilit crystal
#

Thing is tier 9 heavies have the same pen as tier X, eg ST1/m103/is8

austere citrus
#

Add an autoloader on Kranvagn, I rather be restricted to a clip than an autoreloader because the autoreloader on the kranvagn is a pain. sometimes u gotta waste precious seconds because u shot before it reloaded

nocturne mauve
#

But autoreloader is superior

grand prairie
#

Not in all cases @nocturne mauve because they have worse inter clips so if u need to put out damage there worse

nocturne mauve
#

Well that’s just an unfair comparison. Not all of them have worse intraclips. However the system is a fully functional autoloader but worse single shot because it doesn’t has adrenaline available

sinful leaf
#

T54E1 is a pretty good medium as is. The turret armor is weak for what it is but can sometimes pull miracle bounces if you keep moving that turret.

minor minnow
#

Overall the armor is subpar but it can get some troll bounces on the turret and with the clip it carries it can be pretty deadly, especially on cleanup

versed tide
#

It’s the@clip of a k91 on Ames

scarlet fjord
#

IS-7 gun handling buff to 0.315 dispersion
or buff dispersion factors
to balance out the mediocre APCR penetration

brazen steeple
#

Why are the teams so unbalanced,players so toxic and never co-op so you can't rank in rating battles because of toxicity and because of bronze players matched with gold players and platinum players? Edit: Please solve this problem it's frustrating...

dense walrus
#

if you ask for skill based MM I swear...

foggy aurora
#

If there were skilled based mm then let’s just say for example you play a battle against 40%ers and win, the skilled based mm will then give you 45%ers to go against and so on, what this does is that if you keep winning you will begin to fight against 60-70%ers which not only would make you lose more often but up match queue times since there are obviously more 40-50 then 60-70

jagged crescent
#

It's called ratings jajajaja

frail silo
#

Huh? I have seen skill based mm in other games
And people are still able to level up
You level up so much till you reach the level which matches your skill(e.g. rocket league)
But that is kinda hard to do comparing the player count in both games. @foggy aurora

full token
#

it doesnt work here tho

unique scaffold
#

This
Isn't
A
Matchmaking
Discussion
Channel

sudden granite
unique scaffold
#

💯

twilit crystal
#

mediums getting 330 gold pen is fine, its a severe tradeoff from DPM. Compared to the old days when you could spam 330 heat at 3k dpm now its like low 2000's for that

scarlet fjord
#

i agree with reducing the gold pen on heavy tanks and medium/light tanks
i definitely dont agree with giving HEAT ammo same buff as APCR and AP on calibrated
the reason HEAT gets special treatment is because AP and APCR have normalization which boosts your penetration values artificially by reducing the angle
340 HEAT hevies should be 320
tanks like IS-7 with its 303 should stay 303
but even with 320 HEAT
they will just run calibrated and still have insane penetration
but wargaming will never do this i know they wont nerf the 340 HEAT heavies
320 should be the max not 340

muted rampart
#

Yeah. But They will get calibrated and Run 350 pen anyways. So maybe heavies with 319+ shouldn t be able to use calibrated? Just like autoloaders can t use gun rammer

scarlet fjord
#

that wont do because heavies are supposed to have more pen than meds
350 HEAT is still too much
but better than 380 tbh
maybe if they nerfed meds HEAT to 280-290
heavies to 300-320
and nerfed calibrated shells as an equipment
it will push people towards gun rammer more hopefully
probably not
because everyone just runs calibrated shells in tournaments and spams 374 HEAT around

versed tide
#

Meds don’t need a nerf if anything they need a buff

mental pasture
#

In my opinion, medium prammo at tier 10 should remain untouched

unique scaffold
#

Leave mediums and lights alone.

dense yoke
#

Yeah don't buff mediums nor lights, leave them be untouched.

minor minnow
#

Except for the Vick Light

scarlet fjord
#

u cant let them have same pen as heavies lol

full token
#

mediums have lower pen

dense yoke
#

we aint looking at you Leopard 1

lunar niche
#

HEAT is still at 300, the same as others.

fiery dagger
#

Back in the day, meds actually had better pen than heavies. Fv4202 and Leo 1 with 268mm APCR, E50M with 270 APCR

full token
#

They nerfed the pen to stop mediums simply fighting heavies from the front, and to encourage more flanking. The Leo got high pen compared to the others because of it’s lack of armor

jagged crescent
#

adding 10mm of pen for all APCR meds wouldnt hurt tho

sinful leaf
#

265mm APCR pen on Leopard kek

jagged crescent
#

also can we give the 113 ap shells jajajjaja

scarlet fjord
#

@full token no shit sherlock we were talking about if they nerfed heavy pen but ignored meds

versed tide
#

Then please read what you said because you wrote nerf meds pramo to 280-299

scarlet fjord
#

another one XD
think about what was said
according to the idea
heavies 300-320
so if meds are untouched they will all have 300
almost so heavy level penetration at that point

mental pasture
#

If you also touch medium's prammo, they'll be worthless since their actual pen is balanced

jagged crescent
unique scaffold
#

Which ftr 300-290 which is basic pen still struggles greatly to pen basic spots sometimes even rendering turrets invulnerable to it

scarlet fjord
#

omg dude are you even thinking 😂
we said
nerf heavies 300-320
and other people mentioned leave meds at 300
(NOT the 280-290) idea whch im ok with leaving them at 300
so meds are at 300 which is within the heavy penetration range @jagged crescent
in translation
they are at heavy level of penetration on average

mental pasture
jagged crescent
#

@scarlet fjord I **am ** thinking thank you very much “😂”
Deny what you said, try to larp yourself into what the others were disagreeing with, you still said what I screenshotted.
Regardless of whether I made a mistake or not, you shouldn’t be using this app as a way to validate your cognition anyways.

scarlet fjord
#

@mental pasture i see your point
but every good medium tank player runs calibrated shells lol
which gives them 330 HEAT
and will butter through that armor profile like paper lol
oh and btw
meds are shorter than heavies so half of those pics are all above 300 lol
welp apparently saying
are u even thinking is an insult worthy of warning 🤦‍♂️

gleaming apexBOT
#

dynoSuccess Harbinger#0072 has been warned.

versed tide
#

What happened

gleaming apexBOT
#

dynoSuccess Harbinger#0072 was muted

jagged crescent
#

Oh dear

drowsy plaza
#

You can have a discussion without resorting to insults or prohibited language

mental pasture
#

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

muted rampart
#

I didn t said to nerf mediums pen. I told to give every medium 300 base pen and nerf heat bonus pen from calibrated to +5%. It will leave meds at 315 pen with calibrated which is definetly enough and will stop players from getting 350+ Gold pen on heavies after nerf

hardy hazel
#

If the +5% bonus is for heavys only then i agree, if not, there is something wrong with that

Pd: I need someone to explain me this "Normalization" thing

mental pasture
#

HEAT have a bonus because it doesn't have normalization angle, a 5% is practically worthless if the enemy armor will still the same@muted rampart

Wait a bit @hardy hazel

https://youtu.be/UFktFSJZPsQ watch this

YouTube
World of Tanks North America
World of Tanks PC - Explaining Mechanics - Armor Penetration

How do armor penetration mechanics work?
What is the difference between shell types?
Which shell type should you use, depending on the circumstance?
When do you hear “Critical hit!” without inflicting any damage?
This episode of Explaining Mechanics will answer these and other questions. Don’t miss it!

Twitter: http://twitter.com/worldoftank...

▶ Play video
mental pasture
#

Basically, AP and APCR are shells that have normalization angles. You know that enemy armor can increase with angles, right? Well, the normalization angle decrease the angle of enemy armor (so it also decrease the effective armor of your enemy)

Let's take an exemple, Tiger 2 and how APCR and AP does with it's armor

When AP points to Tiger 2 frontal armor: 220mm
When APCR points to Tiger 2 frontal armor: 230mm
When HEAT/HE/HESH points to Tiger 2 frontal armor: 240mm

@unique scaffold I'll answer in the next comment

📎 Screenshot_20201130-235101.jpg 📎 Screenshot_20201130-235040.jpg 📎 Screenshot_20201130-235037.jpg
unique scaffold
#

After looking at the spotting video, ive applied them the best way i can. Even so, the tanks disappear right if front of me and even when I’m supposed to have clear vision of the apposing team they ending up showering me with damage to the point its not worth using any of the mechanics. Seen in any of the videos. Please help us, my entire clan is having this problem. This is a really good game and I don’t want to quit because of unfair sighting.

orchid grove
#

@unique scaffold The camouflage mechanics are the same for everyone. Basically, in Blitz, the way people stay unspotted, is by being outside your ability to spot them, usually at distances greater than ~250M, even when firing, enemies are likely to stay unspotted.

The other way they can be unspotted is by sitting in bushes. Bushes can add a huge amount of camouflage rating to a tank. In fact, even a knocked over tree can be enough to make tanks like the Bat Chat 25t impossible to spot outside of 50M when stationary

The best way to adapt is to learn the common sniping positions and bushes, and learn to avoid being shot by them. In Blitz, it's not too bad, since on the whole, there aren't that many bushes and camping spots, especially when compared to PC

mental pasture
#

He already said everything I would say ^

Well, if a tank is shooting you and remains unsorted, you can try a blindshot based on the hit marks and possible positions for your enemy be or just leave it be for you deal later

hardy hazel
#

I watched the video and now i understand, but the thing here is about IS-4 and the american heavy having too much HEAT pen, also the fact that more than an specific amount will negate pretty much any armor wich is understandable if we are talking about TDs but not if we are talking about any other type of tank

When i say "negate armor" im talking about heavyly armored tanks being penetrated in is thickest armored part like its nothing

mental pasture
#

Well, actually 330-340mm pen with HEAT is common on heavy tanks at tier 10
Kranvagn, E100, Vk 72, T110E5, IS-4, WZ 113, T57 Heavy, T95E6 and AMX 50B (way much worse than 340mm HEAT, because it have this same pen but with APCR)

9 out of 17 heavy tanks in tier 10 have a 330-340mm pen prammo (8 of them with HEAT)
The other 8 heavies have 303-326mm pen, 6 of them have APCR, one have AP (AMX M4 mle. with 310mm pen) and another one have HEAT (WZ 111 model 5A with the lowest heavy pen at tier 10, 303mm)

drowsy plaza
#

There are many ways to bounce high pen guns if you use your advantages

#

Even directly face on a CS HEAT med can’t pen an E100 it’s it’s using all its fun depression

rare sleet
#

whatabout is7 hull, theres nothing but hulldown to hide it or just face forward and hope they bounce or not using premium ammo

drowsy plaza
#

IS-7 can jockey

#

It’s an easy pen stationary but impossible when moving

#

Unless you just blow through it with a TD

#

With Enhanced Armor that spot is 327.5mm

#

And moving turret and jockeying no med will pen reliably

#

Not easy if it’s Moving around.

mental pasture
#

HEAT may ricochet rarely, but can struggle to penetrate great angles if your armor is good

muted rampart
#

Still this penetration shouldn t exist beyond tds. All heavies except autoloaders (those tanks really need that 100% shots in to be effective) and 152 mm (because of really Long reload) should get 320 mm Gold pen. End of story

jagged crescent
#

yeah the heavy heatshells just need a nerf
@turbid smelt he said except autos and 152s so tds included

turbid smelt
#

heavies would be stupid strong
if gold shell of tds would be 320mm

@jagged crescent aight

minor minnow
#

Oddly enough I think the biggest culprits for these HEAT pen issues tend to be the IS-4 and E5, although they may be the only culprits now that I think about it, which would explain their near exclusive use in comp, disregarding other factors

dreamy oar
#

My take on fixing the t6-7 problem I.e the smasher and annihilator. I am sorry that this is gonna be long.

Smasher is up first. WG isn’t going to be nerf this baby bc it makes money but if they were to nerf it here are my suggestions.

Keep what makes it broken. It’s high heat pen and it’s fast reload, armor and health. So let’s see what we can nerf.
Nerf it’s HE splash damage. Just on the smasher and not the kv 2 so that the kv 2 has a reason be used. The smasher will still have its quick reload time but it will come at the cost of its splash damage. Note that it’s just it’s splash damage and not the actual damage when it pens.
Next, nerf it’s hull and turret speeds so that lights and meds and can circle it to punish it if it’s gets to aggressive or if the play is a complete nub. It’s speed and acceleration will still stay same only it’s hull and turret will move slowly.
It’s hp will remain the same.

Next is the Annihilator. Let’s get started.

First, nerf it’s front armor to 110(maximum decrease of armor will be 105) and nerf it’s side armor a bit.
Next, on the top of the annihilators turret there’s a slope piece that’s 80mm and very trolling. Nerf that piece to 70mm so that premium rounds of lights and mediums of t6 and some t7 can have a chance to fight it and for heavies to have a easier time to fight it. Keep it’s front turret armor the same and nerf only the top slope so that you have to move when hull down and so that it’s not complete immune when hull down.
Nerf the pen of the gun down to 165 or 160 but keep its reload, damage, and accuracy the same. This way, it can annihilate lights and mediums but heavies will have a chance against it since it need to load premium which will decrease its potential damage.
Remove the special consumables like the improve engine boost bc does it really need it.

This is my take on balancing these two tanks to try and make t6 and 7 mm a complete mess and again sorry for making you read an entire essay

safe rapids
#

Well done mate.

turbid smelt
#

@dreamy oar Smasher is considered broken not because of its traverse rates, or armor but dpm, gun handling and accuracy of its 152mm

annihilator on the other hand has stupid traverse
turret being 47°\s and tank on hard ground has hull traverse of 37°\s
which can be boosted over 55°\s traverse

it is not possible to circle annhilator in anything, you can't even side hug it as it has 8° of gun depression

the only strong armor profile of annihilator is turret, hull is stupid weak.

safe rapids
#

And not to mention when you try and shoot it in the side, half the shots just bounce off. Sick of the spam, driving me nuts.

unique scaffold
#

Seriously that’s the second time they gave super boost to a tank that didn’t need it (E3 even though the line itself needed it E3 was perfectly fine without it) everyday it becomes more obvious they don’t actually test it

drifting depot
#

although that lower plate should at least be better, 60mm can be penned by anything

jagged crescent
#

no. It deserves that weakspot as far as i care

karmic steeple
#

Trying to buff annihilator?

austere citrus
#

can we nerf e5 pen? i think the heavies should get a pen nerf besides some like wz-113. Heavies already got a huge HP buff so a pen nerf should be made. Do you agree? no point in playing TDs when heavies got similar pen

rare sleet
#

I think all heavies should have a view range nerf to give spotting actual relevance

unique scaffold
#

A view range nerf is much needed although main issue is how much HP they have which we all know wargaming will never own admit they made a mistake

hardy hazel
#

Lets make a list about what should be nerfed in the heavy tanks, for now i can count 2 things:
HEAT penetration
Viwe range

turbid smelt
#

hull traverse

dreamy oar
#

How was the hp buff a mistake. I think that it was great. I’m genuine curious

noble quail
sinful leaf
#

@dreamy oar mediums were made irrelevant because they can't keep up with the enormous hitpoint pools heavy tanks have(lack of DPM). Not only that, some TDs like the Jg Pz E 100 are rendered completely irrelevant by the existence of the E 100 in its current state. The HP buff was only needed for E 100 or Maus realistically, not literally every single heavy tank across tiers 7-10.

jagged crescent
#

It’s why I want a pen buff for most meds

unique scaffold
#

And even then it’s arguable the maus needed it after all since dual maus platoons can steamroll an entire flank or keep them occupied longer than needed

austere citrus
#

I am going to get criticized but I kind of like the Heavy HP buffs. I think it was one of the greatest general buffs in the game in a while. But I think some things got to change for the heavies like nerfing other parts.

twilit crystal
#

lol no, I literally took a 183 HESH hit like an idiot but I barely even cared, anyway I would have given the HP buffs but a view range nerf, that might have made the meta more interesting

orchid grove
#

I think a couple hundred HP on a few heavies was warranted. IS-7 having only like 100 more HP than mediums was kind of dumb, and Maus and E-100 definitely needed it. But most of the heavies definitely got too much. IS-4 and E5 especially

hardy hazel
#

sad 215b noices

jagged crescent
#

Is4 was overdone, e5 was fine imo. They just made the mistake of keeping its sandbags

noble quail
#

IMO the heavies need a view range nerf, so in a medium/light tank vs a heavy tank scenario. The heavy can use it's hit points and armour, and that medium/light tank can use it's mobility and view range to an advantage.

also to give lights and mediums a better role as spotters

orchid grove
#

As far as view range stuff, I'll just copy paste what I posted in the veterans only channel

But instead of just nerfing heavy view range, the problem is the equipment system, since everything has optics now

If you ask me, the way the equipment system should work is, instead of a binary choice for each equipment slot, what if WG instead did a tiered equipment slot system. Basically, you could get, say 3 tier 1 slots, and 2-3 tier 2 slots

In the first tier you could pick any 3 from all the good equipment pieces (the ones that affect gun stats), like CS, rammer, GLD, Vert Stab, Vents, refined gun etc...

And then in the second tier, you could pick any 2-3 from all the other equipment pieces, like toolbox, defense system, supercharge, binos, camo net, optics, engine accelerator, traverse, HP, enhanced armor, etc...

The problem with the old equipment setup is everyone just filled all their slots with the gun stat equipment (especially since everything else was useless), and the problem with the current one is that everyone gets some of everything, so there's no room for specialization

But if you group the equipment so all the good gun equipment is grouped together, but you still have slots for the specialist stuff, you get the best of both worlds

austere citrus
#

@orchid grove Yeah true some tanks like E100/Maus/IS-7 having more HP was good but yeah IS-4 and a few others got too much HP.

void wren
#

i think we show;d have something to show that we are spotted but it will always stay there because sometimes you think you are not spotted but you are

full token
#

Nah, the player needs to know when they are truly resetting their camo. Spotting becomes less effective if the enemy can always know that someone is in a bush spotting them. They’ll know when the spotter is in the bush and when he isn’t. Too much help to give to the tank being spotted

orchid grove
#

^

neat dome
#

chieftain Mk6 should have special consumables like fv215b
why not.... fv215b has it
and mostly all british
And on top of that mk6 is a premium

full token
#

no hell no

unique scaffold
#

It’s fine without it

tender bison
#

how do u apply for the veteran role?

vale tree
#

Hey what is the compensation if you have 2 time is6 fearless ?

sudden granite
low wolf
#

autoaim in mobile is so bad,for example:you are keep locking a target,and suddenly,another guy spotted next to him,and that STUPID autoaim just changed focus to the another guy,it happened almost every time this situation exists and it was Really annoying when it happens,so pls devs,fix the autoaim in mobile

muted rampart
#

Seriously that’s the second time they gave super boost to a tank that didn’t need it (E3 even though the line itself needed it E3 was perfectly fine without it) everyday it becomes more obvious they don’t actually test it
@unique scaffold chimera

civic topaz
scarlet fjord
#

Is it possible that we nerf the gold pen in tier 10 and possibly 9 since some vehicles have tier 10 guns
fix the 374 HEAT
heavies shouldn't have penetration values that make armor irrelevant almost entirely
make it 320 from 340
and nerf calibrated shells
since everyone is just spamming calibrated in tournaments rn and good players do in pubs as well
td's and meds/lights can remain the same since they are kinda balanced
its ok for a TD to pen u like paper since he doesnt have a turret the armor you do and the hit points

winged barn
#

That's a great plan, until a maus exists. The maus is already op af, nerfing pen will make it even more so.

sinful leaf
#

I think all that needs to be nerfed is the effectiveness of calibrated shells for heavies with 340 HEAT, preferably down to 5-3%. As some people have proposed before, you could also give Gun Rammer a buff to 10% effectiveness for the Medium Tank class.

scarlet fjord
#

@winged barn Maus is op?
thats AP rounds
in this fast paced meta
maus is a solid tank to use to waste someones time
its not even close to being op

📎 Video_20-11-30_13-38-29.mp4
minor minnow
vivid kettle
#

I dont think

frail silo
#

@scarlet fjord yes because fighting a maus player who can't properly angle that and being in an advantageous position is a proof.

dense yoke
scarlet fjord
#

Dude please just
follow the meta
its slow
its gun has bad ammo
in tournaments you saw how E5's IS-4's and 113's flanking quickly around
made RA1D's Maus VK 90's paper
just learn to flank around those things are slow
they need time to get into position
It can only angle at 1 side
a 62a will farm you like a huge chunk of paper
pro's arent calling E5 and IS-4 op
but you think Maus is op?
IS-4 literally has a better armor profile similar hit points at 2800
but 374 HEAT
and goes 43km /h
do you know IS-4 and E5 can pen the upper hull of the maus with 374 HEAT?
Its average
you just use 1 Maus to hold 1 flank and it just wastes peoples time
ask a pro cw member if Maus is op and wait for his answer

winged barn
#

Getting farmed by a t62a.
With heat? Suddenly that great dpm isn't that great anymore. Combine that with 3k hp

374 heat. Ok, and I have a wall to sidescrape off.

Also, sure coordinated teams can outflank it, but for crushing pubbies, you can't get better.

Wiggle a bit and even the penetrable portions become impenetrable or get replaced with a bright red side of the turret or the mantlet

Farming by sidehugging> for 1 solid minute.
Is the maus afk? I really hope the maus has enough brain cells scrape it off within a minute

📎 Screenshot_20201201-092453_Armor_Inspector.jpg 📎 Screenshot_20201201-092138_Armor_Inspector.jpg
coarse harness
#

He probably meant farming it down by sidehugging

This guy is pretty talented at describing tanks like IS-7 and now Maus as a piece of crap which is not the case
I don't like it nor think the Maus is OP but it can be capable in different situations

light geode
#

Sidehugging an afk

scarlet fjord
#

@winged barn at any angle
IS-4's 374 HEAT can penetrate the Maus turret
either on the cheeks or on the side of the turret
literally either side is pennable if you angle the sides cheeks are green
if you angle cheeks sides are green
and no i meant farming a maus hull down with a 62a
2800 DPM with HEAT is not so great?
like i said
go ask a CW pro player
if maus is op
not in tournaments
ask him his opinion on it in pubs

spark star
#

would be nice of I don't have to WAIT for the outline of a tank to appear when I have to shoot it always seems like all of my shots miss when the outline isn't there, even point blank if you don't see the outline the shot plants itself to the nearest bit of cover

amazing

sudden granite
scarlet fjord
#

@sudden granite i agree with you
they need to nerf the 340 HEAT its not a fair thing imo
except auto loaders

jagged crescent
#

“Follow the meta” and then talks about the IS4, e5, and for some reason the 113 even though the Maus is obviously more meta than the 113.

fallow eagle
#

Wg should replace calibrated shells with some other piece of equipment and balance prammo for heavies and TDs

muted rampart
#

@fallow eagle nah. Tds can stay. But not heavies

scarlet fjord
#

@jagged crescent you made that sound as if IS-4 and E5 wasnt meta either
and 113 is used just as often as maus is
Your making childish arguments not even attempting to protect the argument which you failed in initially

mental pasture
#

Some TDs like the Jg Pz E 100 are rendered completely irrelevant by the existence of the E100

What? So you think that an E100 overrule the best cannon of the whole game (arguable) only because of it's HP?
The HP buff is great for the Jageroo, more damage to farm = more credits and EXP, the 17cm Pak will always do the job, but sometimes it needs some good distance for better results. It's not an irrelevant tank only because an HP pool boy, lol@sinful leaf

@fallow eagle TDs are supposed to have high pen and on tier 10 we have TDs that actually have quite low pen for their type

Callibrated shells on heavies and on TDs is good, mostly on TDs since it's their job to butter your armor, but on heavies the problem isn't the CS. Their problem are tanks that have too much penetration, not an equipment.

spare totem
#

What are your guy's thoughts on the AMX 40, it's turning, acceleration and overall performance? do you believe it needs a buff or nerf to anything?

sinful leaf
#

E 100 has a high caliber gun just like Jg Pz E 100, just not as hard hitting. It also has a turret and slightly more maneuverable. The only trade-off compared to jag when playing E 100 is that you have less alpha, but it's not really enough to make a considerable difference because you're able to do as much damage as you could do in a jagdpanzer. Perhaps you see it differently, but there is no reason to play jg(especially with those awful movement dispersion values) over E 100 imo.
I personally find it a lot harder to be accurate with a casemate with bad dispersion values rather than a turret with bad dispersion values. @turbid smelt

turbid smelt
#

e100 overall dispersion is poopoo

@scarlet fjord tell that to kranvagns turret
aiming directly below gun
Ho-Ri Type III
63.64% chance to penetrate 373.869mm by ap+ without calibration.
rng -5%, penetration 361.0mm
rng -4%, penetration 364.8mm
rng -3%, penetration 368.6mm
rng -2%, penetration 372.4mm
rng -1%, penetration 376.2mm
rng 0%, penetration 380.0mm
rng 1%, penetration 383.8mm
rng 2%, penetration 387.6mm
rng 3%, penetration 391.4mm
rng 4%, penetration 395.2mm
rng 5%, penetration 399.0mm

100.0% chance to penetrate 373.869mm by calibrated ap+

all tier x tds running calibrated heat have 0 to 34% chance to penetrate kranvagns turret

fallow eagle
#

Yea
Well,that's why i said replace CS equipment itself with something else and balance the premium ammo for heavies and tds
Standard pen of all t10 heavies and tds are arguably well balanced but we know that prammo of the tanks itself needs balancing
But i think replacing CS equipment itself can balance the pen to some extent
i know some players switch between rammer and CS in tanks like wz113 and grille but the standard pen is good enough for them as well to pen

scarlet fjord
#

thats true
and most TD's need gun rammer not calibrated
cuz their base penetration is more than enough to make heavies paper xd
well thats probably the only exception XD
maybe HO-RI with AP+ can@turbid smelt

hardy hazel
#

I have no problem with td having whatever pen, but i do have a problem with heavys having lots of pen

scarlet fjord
#

@turbid smelt RNG varies between -25 and +25
and it isnt using max gun dep every situation
plus if ur elevated above him u get extra normalization artificially
running CS in my opinion on HO-RI just so u can increase the chances of penetrating a kran hull down in a specific ideal position for him is too much
I would rather run gun rammer where in 99% of the other situations i would have increased DPM which i would need more of
u can always get your 183 team mate HE him for 500 tho : P
when did they change that @turbid smelt
or is it always like this
i learned game mechanics from pc videos

turbid smelt
#

@scarlet fjord penetration rng is only -5 to 5 on blitz

150 more dpm isn't as useful as having much higher chance of penetration

jg pz e100 has better aim time

@sinful leaf
0.02 dispersion difference is even lower than aim time difference

mental pasture
#

Pffff, nonsense, Jagdpanzer E100 have it's role tottaly different from E100 and the cannon itself is the registered mark and it's what makes the tank relevant

  • Better alpha (one HE and another AP is enough to kill some tier 10, good part of tier 10 tanks die in 3 shits)
  • Much better penetration
  • Faster aim time
  • Better dispersion while still
  • Can have 418mm HEAT pen and 94mm HE pen or DPM advantage against a good all-out of TDs
  • The dispersion while moving is just slightly worse than E100
  • The reload is just 0.5 slower than E100 (if both using GR)

Ik this comparison is dumb but it's necessary

Also, the dispersion values are only bad if you move the cannon, but the aim time will deal with it fastly @sinful leaf

Useful tip: move the cursor slowly and the dispersion won't bloom a lot

And nope, check blitzstars

Now add Enhanced Gun and Vertical Stabilizer, boom, you got 2.02 aim time

sinful leaf
#

Jg has the same aim time as E 100.
0.15 seconds is a minimal difference, you're going to be sitting for about the same amount of time, bruh.
2.17 in E 100 with same equipment

karmic portal
#

I honestly don’t think heat pen is the main issue. I thinks it’s the balance between hp and dpm that tanks have. The tiger 1 has 2.2k dpm and 1.5k hp. The is4 has 2.4k dpm and 2.7k hp. That’s what’s messing things up

mental pasture
#

Have ya noticed that vertical stabilizer decrease the aim time for 0.19 second? Well, this 0.15 is almost as if you had a third aim time equipement when compared to E100 @sinful leaf

Jagdpanzer have much better dispersion, which makes you shoot much more precisely even if your gun still blooming

He's talking about how worthless the provisions effect is in E100, mostly because it's numbers on precision are quite pretty high for great effects

coarse harness
#

E100 has a turret so you can start aiming faster most of the time

sinful leaf
#

^^^
Both tanks do wdym
The bonus percentages on both provisions between the tanks are the same between the two tanks. Not once have I seen that the same provision used on one tank had a lesser effect on another tank of the same nationality.
??? The Jg Pz does not have any advantage when using provisions only except that it's base accuracy stats are better than E 100. It doesn't mean that the provisions on E 100 have little to no effect, because it's changing the statistics by the same percentage. Accuracy is decreased to 0.317 for jg and 0.362 for E 100. The base accuracy stat is the only difference, not provisions.

turbid smelt
#

jg pz has chocolate rations
e100 has poopoo version

mental pasture
#

Welp that's the point, on E100 the precision does still pretty bad with or without provisions

Me neither, Jagdpanzer have enough armor to take heavies place if there's any other better option, but it won't be so effective on frontline because of the lack of turret and weakspots

The main thing of E100 is second line, not much far away but not close enough for your enemies take advantage or the weakspots

sinful leaf
#

I don't recall trying to use Jg Pz E 100 for sniping all that often, at least not with the armor it has.

minor minnow
muted rampart
#

If all heavies got hp buff, then why heavy/super heavy tank destroyers didn t? I mean all those T95s, Jagdtigers, jagdpanzers, ferdinands etc. Basicly T110E3 line tier 8,9 E4 line tier 8, Jgpz e100 line ferdinand, Jgpz all 183 line except 183 and alecto xD. (I left jgtg, jgtg 8,8 and T110E3, beacuse those tanks are broken enough)

full slate
hardy hazel
#

I still thinking about hp gap betwen LT,Meds, TDs and some heavys, maybe is because im a lil bit dumb but sometimes i feel like you sacrifice a little of hp to get lots of good things like vickers light vs 4202 vs 215b

muted rampart
#

I think 215b deserves 100mm sides or more hp

215b doesn t need frontal armor. It s decent. On rear turreted tank i would rather get some additional armor on sides to actually be able to side scrape

austere citrus
#

i think it should get a frontal armor buff from 152mm to 180mm. And that's about it.

jagged crescent
#

@scarlet fjord I was going to edit my comment saying that the e5 and IS4 being meta makes sense but discord apparently has a cool down on that. If you saw any of the grandfinals, the Maus was used at a far greater frequency than the time that one time that got eliminated was using it.
“You’re making childish arguments not even attempting to protect the argument which you failed in initially” is also pretty arbitrary as well 🤔

scarlet fjord
#

@jagged crescent Meh
it was used just as often
and also
I might add
every time they did use Maus it got flanked and harassed
at least
when the enemy didnt use mauses themselves

jagged crescent
scarlet fjord
#

hahahahaha nice argument
every tank is harassed lol
harassment is when a tank cant handle the situation is doing noting effectively and is just bleeding for no reason
like RA1D's battle vs Legion
their maus and VK 90 got flanked and harassed made their armor meaningless

jagged crescent
#

You never said anything about the first comment.
R vs L? I’d prob get flanked and harassed too if everyone else was either faraway or already shredded.

hardy hazel
#

What is the main point of your discussion?

scarlet fjord
#

Weather or not Maus is over powered
was the initial discussions point

@jagged crescent i think i said my part lol no need to make 15 essays today for a meaningless discussion to be honest

jagged crescent
#

That was the initial point and I'm talking about whether the 113 was more meta than the maus which imo was clearly not the case.
This was when you said
"and 113 is used just as often as maus is"

  1. You still haven't said anything against this
    "~~~ if I were to scroll and watch every final of Asia, RU, EU, and the NA, that I’ll see as many 113s as mice. " So i'm going to assume that I was right about that since I can easily verify that as well.

  2. Even if you want to talk about pubs, you're going to have factor that some tanks are more popular than the other and consequently you're going to have a larger/smaller playerbase which means a larger/smaller chance of variation in playerskill. You load gold, the 113 is entirely paper. You load gold, the maus at least can wiggle and twist because of the nominal thickness that it benefits from.

I have nothing against the 113 but I disagree with how meta the 113 is compared to the maus.
But whatever, apparently you think the smallest of phrases is able to be considered as "15 essays".
This is my part

scarlet fjord
#

LMAO you just compared the 113 armor profile to a maus as its strength
its strength is #1st in class forward acceleration and top speed
and DPM superior to many meds
with 420 alpha and amazing penetration
its armor is around 300 on the upper hull
your comapring it to a tank thats designed to just bounce shells and have an average gun
see what i meant with your logic?

jagged crescent
#

The traverse is garbage. There is nothing you can say about that. The 113 is able to go on direction very quickly but that's the only direction you'll ever likely see.
The dpm is superior but it's held back by unimpressive gun handling. The penetration isn't amazing either. 255 is the base, that's lower than most heavies which have 258-260 base, and those tanks have AP rounds which have better normalization and don't suffer from as huge of a pen drop. And the 113 doesn't have shell velocity either.
It's armor is around 300 on the upper hull if we ignore normalization. Almost every premium round can surpass that and at close range, the armor profile falls apart to even normal AP rounds because of how short the tank is.
And yes, I am comparing it to a maus because survivability is important because both tanks will be at more or less on the frontlines and i can confidently say that one tank is a better performer at that, regardless of how impressive it's top speed is. Durability plays a pretty important role even though the tanks are specialized in different areas.

scarlet fjord
#

see? More none sense
Maus literally has 245 penetration and definitely doesnt have the 370 HEAT
gun handling is 8/16 on aim time and 5/16 dispersion
its traverse speed is almost identical to the maus
Maus turret un angled is 250 paper to AP rounds
and u have nice concealment and ur very short which means side hugs with your DPM are going to be brutal
tournaments or pubs
113 is just as viable
Maus is not over powered

muted rampart
#

Maus is okay as it is. Most of heavies are. (Not all, most)

scarlet fjord
#

Yes

delicate moth
#

Heavies are meant to be better than the rest.

sweet prism
#

no

remote oriole
#

Yes

hardy hazel
#

Nothing is meant to be better than, everyone has an specific rol, but heavys can do most of them

coarse harness
#

The class of the tanks means nothing
There are fast but paper hevies, slow and armored meds etc
The playstyle/role is determinated by the stats not the class of the tanks

scarlet fjord
#

Heavies are not better than the rest
they have their specific roles
at least I'm talking for pubs

distant river
#

Maus is stupid to play rn

It should be an extremely limiting tank for good players considering that it's slow as hell and it's gun isn't great, all it has is armour and hp.

But still I'm playing it as agressively as I can, literally driving out into the open in front of all the reds trying to die and take the damage for my team and I still survive 64% of games. Yes I wiggle and use the right angles on the turret as much as I can, but it's still stupid to say "I'm going to rush the reds in the open and still survive more games than most players can dream of"

mental pasture
#

@coarse harness actually the class of tank means something, it's about how bad will be the concealment

Unless this, tank class is quite worthless

stone ether
#

guys whats the most op tech tree tank?

unique scaffold
#

IS-4

#

Or Emil

orchid grove
#

Emil 1 and it's not particularly close