Prog has pretty meh gun stats now and it’s not that fast anymore
#tank-balance-discussion
unique scaffold
lunar niche
Gun handling is quite bad compared to Leo and is not as fast but i get better results in Progetto than Leo. Just my own experience from playing both.
jagged crescent
The Leo's def harder to play now that the all of heavies are juiced up
The Prog prob fares better since it has that burst firepower
gaunt trail
M6 's armor Is kinda bad for a heavy
nimble zodiac
Probably deserved because of T1 Heavy being so armored
bleak furnace
T95E6 American heavium need more speed 42km/h to 55km/h
thick rover
lol
dusty heath
Enemy tanks should be visible without any details above them when the haven’t been spotted. This would make it more realistic.
compact nymph
There is a thing called realistic mode for a reason. I’m not sure neither this has anything to do in a channel regarding vehicles balance. (PS: imagine reacting to your own post)
unique scaffold
@dusty heath Dude. That's a F-35 in your pic. That would be like me calling myself F-15 and then using a F-16 as my avatar
dusty heath
I know that lol it’s just a good pic
unique scaffold
Another Bulldog buff. You have to be kidding me.
glacial lichen
Let’s go the is6 is getting a buff
unique scaffold
I'll take a IS-6 buff for sure
harsh oriole
lmao 183 is still a joke
viscid breach
^^^ Also, a bulldog buff doesnt bother me. Still 0 armour so free HE damage for my type 62 and KV-13
nocturne mauve
Anything that does 1300 damage in one shot is unbalanced.. so no
quiet badge
interesting - the SP 1 C buff might make it more fun to play, although i did enjoy it as it was
meager spruce
I ought to give it to WG. The expected buffs that were just posted will be actually good for the game
stiff edge
^
thin lichen
Yeah finally is6 armor buff lol
civic scaffold
After HTs HP buff Tortoise just became so sad
you don't have the HP speciality anymore
coral sage
Obj. 268 buff when?
acoustic shard
I think they are missing the mark with the Grille Buff If it Just Had more gun depression and a better camo rating it would be alright. All the other one's look to be nice. Still no 183 Buff though.
languid shadow
So WG look at the tier 10 stats and think:
"Hmmm, we need to fix these stats so they're fair and mostly even
I know!!!
Let's ignore the deep dark drop that hardly makes it onto the charts called the 183 and let's buff the one just next to it"
I love democracy
unique scaffold
There is always going to be a "worst" tank in each category. Personally I think the 183 fits that position just fine
leaden ruin
When Tiger II is buff plz ?
autumn zodiac
6 Updates after the Lower Glacis nerf
tulip moon
whats wrong with tiger 2 on both sides?
unique scaffold
Pffff grille can be HE all the time it need dpm buff to fit its sniper role
lament arch
I appreciate the buffs for tier 7 light tanks
more speed
and dpm for the SP 1 C
limber flame
Ribble what u are doing buffing the tank speed for sp1c is worse u can do , should of buff it’s shell velocity instead , another thing grille buff , u should also buff it’s traverse speed so it could back out little quicker. But any ways. I my own opinion so there u go
unique scaffold
What rlly need an armor buff is the vk 72.01 k weakspots under the turret and the turret cheeks its self.... Its a super heavy after all
imagine playing E-100
fluid vector
sheridan narf?I hard at live streem ,sheridan nerf........
drowsy plaza
@languid shadow The 183 cannot be balanced for Blitz with the alpha and pen it has. It should NEVER have been added to the TT, the Badger fit the line better. If they want to balance it - it needs an alpha decrease and a HESH pen nerf - then one can discuss turret armor and mobility and other issues. I’m absolutely fine with it sitting where it is now though, as it encourages less skilled players to play it.
languid shadow
so its fine because it being outclassed benefits you?
dense walrus
@fluid vector yes https://blitzhangar.com/en/update/7-0-preview
@sinful trench "near future" whatever that means
sinful trench
When will is6 get buffed? Or they haven’t said
sturdy scarab
Please buff the AMX 90 too.
stiff edge
amx 90?
you mean amx 13 90?
that thing is fine
unique scaffold
yea amx 13 90 is fine
mossy wraith
DEVS, is there a chance you release the 6.10 stats published here #devs-answers in a spreadsheet format?
static thicket
#GrilleCamoBuff
It got a tiny little buff but it still has worse camo than the jag e100, i will never rest until it is the same or better, yeah but after firing
outer ether
I think KV-4 is fine now, Armor buff is not needed in my opinion.
civic scaffold
yeah KV-4 is not that bad
the gun is a bit sad but still workable
sleek vault
THEY finally realized that SPICY is lack of DPM
bold dagger
a Grille buff and IS-6 buff. i guess ive been bribing WG too much
btw KV-4 is hot trash right now. it getting an armor buff makes a a lot of sense. compare it to the VK 100.01 P and then you realize that it badly needs an armor buff
gritty flame
Do you think they'll increase the grille alpha or decrease it's reload to buff the dpm? Yeah, I agree with u frostbite lol. More alpha would be really nice
nocturne mauve
Probably decrease reload by 0.5s
lone warren
Didnt everyone want some sort of grille mobility buff
distant river
I can't wait to abuse the grille when it gets buffed, shame it wasn't a hull traverse buff but I can live with it because even more dpm is going to make it awesome to play
naive ibex
Wow just... didnt expected that wg buffs grille again... idk i think right now is fine for me, really is that hard to drive this tonk? Grille's dpm is still brutal +laser accuracy for even more brutal sniping. I think that they need to buff on grille gun depression by 1-2° to snipe more comfortable
noble siren
@distant river jokes on you, there will be no buff for Grille
noble siren
damn so they will finally buff it
reef rune
What channel did he post that in @unique scaffold
lunar niche
Pretty sure its 0.2 seconds shaved off of Grille's reload. There, highest dpm on a 640 alpha gun but you pay it with superheavy hull traverse, awkward gun angles and a camo equivalent to Jageru.
lone warren
#devs-answers @reef rune
willow junco
What does the grille need ?
- -8° gun depression
- some traverse buff
- reverse speed buff .
Thats all
ionic ivy
grille already has decent gun depression, you just have to turn the tank awkwardly to the side
civic valley
Yes I’m almost to the Grille
willow junco
@ionic ivy , it gets like only 4 or 5 degrees of gun depression when u look direct
nocturne mauve
I’ve got to say this problem messed a lot of my shots up
scarlet fjord
Wargaming: T54E1 wont have HE because it will be too strong (310 alpha damage auto loader)
Also Wargamin: Standard B (350 alpha damage auto RELOADING system) will have not HE but cheap HESH 105 mm pen
very good logic wargaming i like your chain of thought
I know T54E1 has armor which if your lucky might bounce a tier 8 if he missed his shot
main tulip
Where are you guys getting the info on upcoming balance changes
Bruh why the heck would they buff the dpm on grille 15, it needs a mobility, penetration and camo buff if anything
The penetration is absolutely awful for a TD, especially the gold shells which are in line with heavies, not to mention the HE has 10mm less pen than other 150mm guns for whatever reason. Add to that the fact that it has the traverse of a superheavy makes it an awful tank imo, and a dpm buff would not fix that
dense walrus
@main tulip #devs-answers
orchid grove
@main tulip Why would you not buff the DPM on the Grille 15? DPM is one of its strengths, and buffing that would really accentuate that strength.
As a game design decision, buffing weaknesses as opposed to buffing strengths makes for bland, less varied gameplay
@main tulip If DPM weren't a strength on the Grille, it would be a pretty pointless tank in the face of all the other relatively mobile TDs out there like 4005, and Foch, or even 268. The only reason to play a Grille is superior firepower, and DPM is a really important facet of that firepower, because you're losing out on a ton of armor and even HP. And it's obvious from the stats rn that Grille's firepower advantage isn't enough for it to justify itself rn, so it should get even more piled on top
Also, if you buff things like mobility and turret arc, then it would start to intrude more into the space of a medium tank, and Grille should really be a dedicated sniper, with the mobility only for strategic relocation
Pen buff would've been fine IMO. I've always advocated that Grille should honestly just get the old jgpz pen, 298 on AP, 420 HEAT
main tulip
I honestly don't think dpm should be the grille's strength in the first place, it should be a mobile sniper to which dpm wouldn't play a major role
I see your point about buffing its strengths instead of its weaknesses, but in that case, I would find it preferable to buff its turret arc and pen (both are connected to overall firepower) rather than dpm
ionic ivy
Grille is kinda strange, on one hand you can be a really good sniper with the accuracy, but on the other, you can be an ok front/second line assault tank using the gun to block shells and out dpm'ing other tanks
nimble zodiac
I'm gonna miss lazily shooting IS-6's upper plate, and just shooting KV-4's turret, but I think it's for the better
orchid grove
I really liked being able to rip on the IS-6 for being bad :(
As long as they keep the turret bad though, I guess I won't complain too much. If the turret gets a buff though, I'll be livid
buoyant dock
Wait so when will the is6 buff be?
sinful trench
^
ionic ivy
TBD, but it will be soon, probably 7.1 or 7.2
orchid grove
^ My guess is 7.2
lunar niche
A dpm buff won't change anything on Grille unless its a big or noticeable one. Last few buffs on Grille were a small increase in camo and a gun stablization irc, the dpm buff would probably be the same. They took away most of its strengths and are giving it something it already has. Why not just give it normal gun angles instead of dpm? That would actually make it easier to hit targets from far instead of moving the entire hull and breaking camo beacuse your target moved 2 meters to the left or right.
static thicket
It has more than enough gun traverse arc, the only thing I really think it needs is another small camo buff, because its honestly lacking
main tulip
No it needs to have high pen, there's no reason a 150mm gun with that high shell velocity should have the lowest pen in its class
ionic ivy
wdym, the pen is great
nimble zodiac
It is the worst pen, but just by 1mm to tie it with 3 other TDs. It is still workable, and the 280-300 mark doesn't affect too many things, only perhaps RNG aid on angled frontal glacis plates
nocturne mauve
The thing needs its 60km top speed and old gun angles back
jagged crescent
The dpm only works if you have either flexbility, concealment, or armor so that you can take what you give out
The grille has noen of that
static thicket
Concealment would be the most fitting for its role
main tulip
The pen on grille sucks, especially the heat (only 330) and HE (75), which are both oddly much less than other tier 10 TDs
ionic ivy
Not often that you need to spam heat, the HE pen is enough too. Just run rammer
main tulip
That's a poor excuse for the fact that it's completely illogical that the grille has far less pen on both HEAT and HE than contemporary TDs, and it's not even for the sake of game balance
formal vale
just aim better :p
thick rover
Lol..
vale sun
I won't be able to crap on the is6 anymore? :(
T71, m41 and sp buffs seem fair
kv4 needs a turret that isn't the kv4 turret because that thing is atrocious
Grille buff... give it camo and the reload down to 10.5 and you have a decent tank
nimble zodiac
3.6k DPM? Which only the Obj. 263 can rival? Funny
nimble zodiac
To be fair it is like the only super lightly armored tier 10 TD, but that should account better for mobility, or the small stature for camo
Yes I'm leaving out FV4005 because of the spall liner
ionic ivy
@main tulip dude, grille definitely does not need a pen buff. If it did, I would be running CS, but no, I'm using rammer because the pen is already decent and can pen most of what I come across.
main tulip
"Decent" isn't acceptable for a 15cm gun that long, nor is the fact that the HE pen is less than other 150mm guns for absolutely no reason
stoic quest
Well, the tier IX SU 122 54 has 3755 DPM on its top gun without consumables, provisions, or equipment. So 3.6k DPM isn't to obsurd lol. Yeah, 3.6k grille would be preposterous.
ionic ivy
@main tulip so? the HE pen is enough to go through pretty much any rear or side you want with CS, but Rammer is more viable because dpm. That's what the grille is, a glass dpm cannon.
main tulip
It's really not supposed to be a dpm tank and I really don't know why WG made it that
And there's a huge difference between 75mm and 85mm that you clearly can't notice
nimble zodiac
Why is HE pen such a priority here? The shell velocity is supposed to make grille like a SU-130 PM but better, a stinging sniper, meant to make sure the shots hit
ionic ivy
Grille is fine as is, but it's gonna be even better when it gets that dpm buff. it's so accurate that you don't even need a pen buff, just aim. If you can't do good in the grille when almost everyone else can, that's a you problem
unique vigil
Grille is my most played tank and I think the penetration is fine I think the dpm buff on grille wont make a difference ,what I would like to see is a camo buff and maybe a gun depression or hull traverse buff, the gun arc is not much of an issue
lunar niche
Gun arc is not an issue, its the awkward elevation angle it gets while turning the gun. That thing is okay for tier 9 Waffle because of fully rotating turret and all the angles it gets but on a 50/50 gun arc Grille with bad camo, it just doesn't work.
ionic ivy
yeah the good gun depression is only there for the extreme parts of the gun arc, so you have to take 5 seconds to turn your hull in order to gain those extra degrees
thick rover
How about we giving the most accurate guns in each tier worst pen because "fix your aim" and "git gud" ???
main tulip
Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not
ionic ivy
Grille definitely does not need a pen buff, it is fine as is. Just hang back and snipe, just because you can't pen every square inch of an E 100 does not mean it needs a pen buff. If so many people can pump out 2.5k average damage in a grille, then the gun definitely does not need tuning. Camo and traverse on the other hand, that is something that requires a buff
main tulip
It's illogical for the grille to have such low pen, that's why I want it buffed
ionic ivy
Are you having problems penning your shots or something? because the AP is capable of going through any tank's side and the HEAT can easily go through E 100 and Maus cheeks. HE is decent enough to pen any light/med. The only pen buff I can see being remotely justified is a HE pen buff, but even then, it's highly unlikely that WG will do so because of how great the dpm already is.
drifting depot
The he isn't enough to pen any med's side, and ofc it's gonna be able to go through a maus or an e100 if they don't angle just like any other tank
violet scaffold
hit your shots
ionic ivy
Like honestly, use the accurate gun. It has one of the best aiming times at tier 10 with both aim time equipments and has really good dispersion values too, if you can't hit your shots with this laser beam, I don't know what to tell you other than "Git Gud" because at this point, it's not the tank's fault, it's your fault.
ashen comet
E4 needs a buff
teal fog
imo grille just need mobility buff, gun in general is amazing. traverse speed is terrible. also five it 60kph top speed. depression should be buffed too. it is not that hard to make 6-7k games, but it hapens only on some maps where you have amazing camping spots. when some medium tanks go to you, it is over, you have no chance
twin egret
I mean DPM buff on Grille makes it more easy for it to defend itself
thick rover
lol
drifting depot
Y'all know the use the gun argument is just.... bad, yes the gun is good and all but the traverse, camo, depression and elevation angles, and of course the armor are all bad but the armor is meant to be bad anyway.... the rest just completely kill the tank without keeping in mind the fact that it gets focused by just about everyone
Elevation goes to sht when you actually get some depression btw....
unique scaffold
Who cares about dpm when ur camo is worse then a heavy tank,on a TD that is supposed to camp
distant river
No tank is supposed to camp. The grille is normally played as a mobile sniper which is nowhere near the same as brainlessly camping.
thick rover
Snipe*
elfin marlin
i think the 183 needs some more love. statistics are showing it is severely underrated
magic fern
no
distant river
I think it needs much much more hate so WG will finally rework it
pastel viper
Why the hell are they planning to buff the dpm of the grille 15? What it needs is a better camo rating, better traverse speed or maybe some extra pen. Even the 4005 has better camo than the grille.
distant river
It's a nice buff, prevents people from camping too hard in it and pushes them towards being more agressive which the grille does pretty well. The traverse is a feature of the vehicle and I've never struggled with pen in it.
remote oriole
Yeah, stop asking for camouflage on the Grille 15. If I don’t want to see something returning then it’s the endless mass of campers. Greetings to the 183
elfin marlin
that is why you drive a td to snipe/camp. i hate to see light/meds and heavy tanks camping. To many idiots are camping in a maus or E100 or IS-4. Same for the meds like the sheridan with its cancer missles
remote oriole
No, you don’t drive a td for camping. You drive it for superior firepower
distant river
^^^ too many "special players" try and validate being completely useless in the corner all game because they are a TD. It's not what they are meant for at all
wet wharf
I hate it when T28- prototype drivers and T-30 drivers camp. These tanks are basically heavies that found themselves in the TD Branch. I don't see T-34 or EXP or T-29 drivers camping.
crystal spoke
I cant stand it when anyone camps its pointless (setting up an ambush is different tho)
fringe lion
Please buff t69 the penetration is horrible for t8 and the armor is unreliable
unique scaffold
Plz don t nerf sheri i prefer atgms then just ammos
lone warren
The sheridan is getting nerfed, it is inevitable
unique scaffold
Plz don t nerf atgms accuracy pleassse
distant sable
Sheri gets less horsepower and the atgm is also getting nerfed@unique scaffold
civic scaffold
buff Tortoise's HP please, it just can't play its role anymore imo
prime mist
Balance the BC line pls, the speed is the slowest among other LTs and the gun rlly sucks
regal venture
make the missiles on the t92e1 and sheridan so that they can not just have you highlighted and be able to hit
main tulip
Then how else are you supposed to aim them
winged barn
Imagine if they removed missiles. But no. We will balance the broken mechanic by killing the tank it is attached to.
regal grove
bruh like I said in this channel for 50 days straight all Grille needs is the 60km/h buff. Pen was never a problem since you could still boop weakpoints and HE 15cm still did a consistent 300-400. I’ll take dpm though, but it won’t be a fun gun without the 60km/h
fiery flame
Sheridan was already very strong without the missiles tho @winged barn
winged barn
Yes, but it wont be much longer
drowsy plaza
Would be broken with a direct fire HEAT round. Missile mobility and range nerf will cut down on the trick shots.
vale sun
I wish they kept the speed on the sheridan honestly. The non-los ATGMs need to be removed. My worry is that they will keep nerfing the thing but still allowing non-los shots, eventually just neutering the tank.
nocturne mauve
What’s that
main tulip
Los = line of sight
dusky cedar
Buff the centurion mk l really bad tank, also grille needs a camo buff and not the dpm buff
jagged crescent
Use the turret
[Reply to Below]
I think it's in a good spot rn
wet wharf
Does T-57 heavy need a buff?
nimble zodiac
@granite jasper to work the same way most games do, upgrade your stuff and get better as you progress in the game, in this case, module upgrades, provisions, equipment, and researching new tanks
It's the general idea of progression games, and here, the joy of the journey is the journey itself, though the destination (the tier 10) is also nice, like most games
@granite jasper they want to get from the bad to the good, the joy of progression, and the wholesome feeling of managing to get a tank maxed
orchid grove
@granite jasper It's to get you to spend money on gold for crew and free XP
jagged crescent
o..but sometimes being stock is kinda bad
Yes that's why you can either use
-gold (video ads and weekly/mission crates)
-free xp
-Boosters
Or you can always just grind
jagged crescent
My remaining solution then is to suck it up, get good, and stop being lazy
compact nymph
You guys have problems grinding free exp? Just plan your grind before starting, calculate how much free exp you will need for vital modules to skip over the entire line, and if while going up the line you won’t be able to free exp some modules (like the top gun or turret on a heavy) just take a break in the grind to farm both credits and free exp, which will always be useful.
unique scaffold
.......
winged barn
I will give you plenty of salt over missiles @unique scaffold
jagged crescent
See that's where u learn to suck it up.
1400 dmg isn't that special
sinful sonnet
The Leopard PTA need Buff reload
jagged crescent
No they don't.
scarlet fjord
When buffing IS-6 please consider the fact that the Celestial has broken armor and goes 42 km/h and practically an IS-3's turret
IS-6 which you will be buffing I'm guessing will have a weaker armor profile on the hull (no doubt on the turret) go slower and have obviously a trash gun that takes 3 hours to aim in please make the armor profile extremely good because thats all it has the gun is trash the mobility is ok but not as good as it should be DPM and pen also are bad so at least make the armor profile extremely good to compensate for everything else being mediocre
whole topaz
I think, the Leopard PT A needs a buff on it's gun depression (from 6 to 8 or 9, in real life there were ONLY prototypes with -9°) and better concealment (add 15% of each factor to the factor itself; e.g. 33%+4,95%=37,95%). It has pretty much everything a light tank has except the concealment and EVERY other to the leo similar tank has more gun depression. If a medium or light tank hasn't got armor, IT HAS TO HAVE GUN DEPRESSION. But because of all the other new tanks it got worse and worse. Since the Leo PT A hasn't been touched for at least the last seven updates and it is one of the worst performing medium tanks for a very long time, you should give this left alone beauty some attention!
noble siren
@granite jasper don't expect help in here, all they know is git gud and game balanced. They just don't want to admit that 80% of the playerbase is trash and it's kinda impossible to carry without 2-3 decent players. I can offer you to play in platoon with someone who already grinded the tanks.
distant river
It's almost as if it is possible to carry by yourself as many many peoples stats show 🤦♀️
noble siren
aah the ultimate 300iq answer, waited to hear it...
distant river
If you don't think it's possible then look at any top player who doesn't have a 75% platoon rate and you will see that somehow they manage to keep high WR on their own. It's not luck it's a solid damage ratio with map awareness and teamwork that lets you carry, and if you can't carry then you are missing some of those skills 🤷♀️
floral hawk
Hi everyone
noble siren
Meh. You can't carry alone and that's a fact. It's either YOUR team is better than the enemy TEAM. Or the enemy TEAM is worse then YOUR team.
distant river
That is completely wrong. You can carry alone. If you are good enough and can win a 1v7 consistently then you can get 100% WR. I don't think anyone is that good currently, but it's possible to get fairly close with platooning and playing op tanks.
Here is an example, solid damage ratio, decent spot ratio so probably good at teamwork, map awareness is probably good because his k/d is high showing good focus. All of those contribute to his 70% WR. That isn't the team that's brought him from 48% to 70% it's him.
I would then show an example of a worse than average player but generally they tend to not have been looked at on blitzstars so they have no 30 day stats, but you would expect to see a damage ratio below 1, not necessarily that low a spot rate because of yolos, a low k/d and as a result a low WR.
You have a direct affect on your WR. It isn't your team, it is you.
coarse harness
Yeah, you can't carry every battle
Just about 75-80% with ideal conditions like full equipment, crew and modules
unique scaffold
When I win it's because I am an amazing player... possibly the greatest to ever live. When I lose it is always the teams fault.
distant river
@coarse harness Theoretically you could just practically noone is a good enough player for that
scarlet fjord
you can carry alone as long as your exceptional and the stronger the tank the better full equipment consumables etc etc basically every advantage you can possibly get load it up on your tank and try your best to 1vs7 it if your lucky a person on your team might be decent and help you 2vs7 it usually its 1vs7 with 6 retards buying you time you definitely can solo carry those who say you cant dont have the skill
just because you arent able dont assume everyone else cant carry
mild glade
i mean, ive won a 1v6 in a T57 :3, pre-buff days https://youtu.be/a00LMRnp6Og?t=290
coarse harness
@distant river 70% WR for a relatively skilled reroll is pretty easy
If you can prevent stock grinds using free XP that's also a huge help
And you can play platoons as well
I have a 1v6 replay on youtube as well
distant river
It's possible to get close yes but I'm not aware of anyone that can win 1v7s consistently. There are lots of things you can do to boost your WR but at the end of the day people with high WR have it for a reason
coarse harness
You have to make decisions in split seconds and even if you made great choices the win is mostly in the enemies hands
If they are greedy and wan't every bit of damage while underestimating you the win is possible
But if they work together it's impossible
remote oriole
@delicate moth Read
winged barn
I was 1 at2 peashooter shot away from winning a 1v7
nocturne mauve
Bruh @winged barn can you send the replay
winged barn
Nope. I was a noob back then, and this was when the at2 was first released
ionic ivy
Bruh
lone warren
British tank destroyers were introduced about a year after blitz released
winged barn
...
The at2 was introduced when the death star was buddy
There also was no replay function back then, and do you really think that a 14 year old kid that was basically just starting recorded every match?
I still dont record my matches.
civic scaffold
petition to buff IS-7's APCR pen to 320 base
sweet prism
I can't believe T62A doing worse than m48 patton and fv4202 for 55-65 WR players. Even after 7 degree gun depression?
fiery dagger
The T62 is an all rounder. Very easy to play, but it's... Not really special in anything, thus 55-65 WR people who can use the advantages of more special tanks, like the Fv4202, like the HESH, manouverability and hull armour, will definitely shine in those tanks, while on the other hand, the T62 with no real weaknesses, but also no specialities can't really be performed that much better than the average.
I hope i'm clear, english is not my first language:'D
drowsy plaza
55-65% players are not all equal.
lone warren
Fv4202 is a very good random battle tank anyway
drowsy plaza
The T-62A has a fantastic gun, turret, and dpm. It’s slower than several other meds - but those only way it is doing worse than the Patton or 4202 is the caliber of players.
winged barn
And the caliber of the shells
drowsy plaza
I’m not the most reliable medium player in X.
I purposely left off my 4202 and STB results from that.
Maybe next month will go better for me in them.
lone warren
The fv4202 is my only medium right now and I love it. Im very close to getting the stb 1 though.
remote oriole
The T-62A is overestimated. If you play it you will quickly realise that it's not nearly as great as it sounds. The turret is too small to play hull down without having parts of your hull exposed, the gun doesn't handle nearly as good as it looks and the alpha often lets you down in trades, forcing you to take additional risks to get a second shot off
winged barn
And I still personally prefer the stronger hull of the obj140.
karmic steeple
Wdym the gun doesn’t handle as good
That gun is a laser
remote oriole
I don't know what gun you have, but I played the Leopard 1 and the Obj. 140 and both perform better in terms of shooting on the move/ snapping
distant river
@remote oriole Leo has exactly the same base dispersion and bloom, 140 has worse base dispersion which makes its total bloom slightly worse than the T62As (0.272 or 0.372 on movement against 0.317 or 0.397 on movement)
It's all psychological the T62 is more accurate than the 140 even for snapshots.
winged barn
And I will take the AP standard shell over the apcr
remote oriole
No, it's in no way purely psychological. Bloom doesn't even work nearly as easily as just adding the number to the dispersion and being done with it
winged barn
You are making it sound like the 140 has bad bloom. It doesn't.
I remember talking to someone saying the prog 65 has bad shell velocity. It's not slow at all.
nocturne mauve
Progetto 65 has a slower shell velocity
winged barn
Slower=/=bad
The accuracy on these things is too close to make any difference. Find an actual difference to compare
Such as the fact that the t62a basically breaks even in credits while the 140 is a 20k loss every match
distant river
@remote oriole It is psychological the stats prove it. If you want an actual difference (not pen) then look at the depression as well as the basically impenetrable turret.
Also the T62A has 1% better credit coefficient and equal repair cost factor so please try and get some actual stats instead of your baseless claims @winged barn
@unique scaffold It does not have better dispersion, and it's the top speed that makes the T62 feel slower
remote oriole
@distant river It's not evidently psychological and the stats don't prove it. You don't even know how to apply these stats. Aside from that, what i suspect is that the T-62A has a worse distribution of shells within the aiming circle than the Object 140 and the Leopard 1, which is something you cannot see in the stats. But I might be wrong
winged barn
Since when are their coefficients so close?@distant river
round bluff
1 👏 percent 👏 credit 👏 coefficient
nocturne mauve
Lol, and fun fact. The T-22 medium has around an 80% credit coefficient
distant river
@unique scaffold That is the increase, when added to the base dispersion the T62 is still lower as my previously said.
@remote oriole The stats show that the T62 is more accurate when still. The stats show that the T62s accuracy decreases by a larger amount when moving. However the T62s base accuracy is sufficiently better for it to still be more accurate when moving. That means whatever you can think of that makes the 140 more accurate is purely psychological.
@winged barn It's what blitzstars says, I can't remember any changes being announced recently 🤷♀️
winged barn
Guess it's time to update my sources
unique scaffold
Slower shell velocity doesn’t help APCR
nocturne mauve
Faster shells are definitely better for regular rounds but worser for ATGMs
remote oriole
Not necessarily. Firstly, you forgot to mention the distribution. Secondly, the bloom is dependent on how fast you are actually going. This is especially crucial when turning, because unlike driving you are almost instantly at the top turning speed.
Oh, and, distribution is not some imaginary psychological effect. As far as i am aware Wargaming currently uses the standard distribution in most cases, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if they used it for balancing tanks
distant river
@remote oriole The bloom is dependent on whether the turret is turning or if the tank is moving. When still, T62 has better dispersion. When moving, T62 has better dispersion. When tumthr turret is rotating, T62 has better dispersion. When you are driving and the turret is moving, the 140 has 0.005 better dispersion, but still half a second worse aim time.
Make a ticket and ask WG if they use different distributions to create the affects you imagine, I bet they will say all tanks use exactly the same aiming RNG.
ionic ivy
KV-2 and 252U would like to challenge that statement
/s
winged barn
Is6 is a better example
cunning sleet
u guys wil go back and forth and conclude to agree to disagree with eachother lol
remote oriole
The stats don't prove for certain that the gun of the T-62A is better in most categories, and if it were you need to explain how I would come to an opposing conclusion even after playing around 100 battles in both tanks.
And even given that the T-62A does outperform the Object 140, it's gun still doesn't perform like a laser unlike the Leopard 1 gun. Just hop into the tanks and drive a bit around shooting at buildings or the likes and it won't take many shots to get a noticeable difference
distant river
What do you think the stats do then? 🤦♀️
The aiming circle of the T62 grows by a larger proportion compared to the 140, but it is still smaller unless your are driving and turning your turret in which case there is a 0.005 (unnoticeable) difference.
After 340 and 260 games in the 140 and T62 respectively I can tell you that the T62s gun is more accurate but not by much as they are both very accurate. I have 600 higher WN8 and 7% better WR in the T62 but I refused to play it before the buff and the 140 was one of my early tier 10s.
I haven't really played enough games in my 140 in the last 90 days so the stats aren't really that useful seeing as apparently I have 50% WR with 3.1k WN8.
remote oriole
Eh. The second part is actually along the lines of the overmatching mechanic, it has to be greater than three or two times (depending on the rule).
Now the thing with enhanced armour.... I actually equipped enhanced armour on some tanks just for that 👀
What exactly did WG say that contradicts this?
unique scaffold
WG said that enhanced armour does not enhance the thickness of the armour but some other "hidden" armour factor.
jagged crescent
The overmatch rule only means that the shell wouldn’t ricochet.
But that doesn’t mean it’s an auto pen, the shell still has to go through the effective thickness of the angled armor.
And to be fair, that picture is sharply angled.
remote oriole
The aiming circles of the Object 140 and the T-62A don't actually differ a lot, regardless of the state the vehicle is currently in.
I started playing both tanks at around the same time (after the T-62A buff) and played them more or less evenly. Due to their stats I went with a refined gun on the Object (also on my Leopard 1) and a V-Stab on the T-62A. When I started playing them I didn't really know much about them other than that people think that the T-62A is vastly superior, so i actually expected a better gun performance of the T-62A which i didn't really get. Because of that I play the T-62A way more passively and aim more carefully, while i just spam shots at everyone in the Object (which ultimately led to the T-62A having around 3% more hits on target).
I hardly think that there are any psychological effects at work and it would also explain why the T-62A performs so poorly despite having exceptional stats in some categories and good starts in most others. Or it may just be down to the equipment.
ionic ivy
I say run the aim time equipments, sure your dispersion might be less, but that only matters when you're aimed in. Aim time would help more than the dispersion decrease
winged barn
Vertical stabilizer does help aimtime. It has a smaller starting circle allowing it to get to the ending circle faster.
nimble zodiac
I have tested it, Enhanced Armor on T-25's 50mm frontal plate made it red for my Obj. 268
winged barn
That is if it ever reaches the max dispersion. Which the vstab is there to prevent. Resulting in less time for the circle to get to its smallest point.
sweet prism
Give opinion>>>> Does enhanced armour help obj 140 turret?
stiff edge
not the turret but the hull receives quite a nice little boost, but its not rly worth not having the extra 100hp
vale sun
@remote oriole where did you get "distribution of shots within the aiming circle"?
That sounds like tinfoil-hat made up bs.
remote oriole
@vale sun What you quoted is actually just a statistical question, and has no meaning in itself
In case that you are unaware how RNG works for accuracy, it works along the standard or normal distribution, a well-defined mathematical concept. That essentially means that shots are more likely to hit the centre than the edge. However, you can use any distribution. Ah yes, what a shock, RNG isn't actually truly random. But it can't even be, because it's an algorithm which can't even achieve true randomness, but that's another topic.
nimble zodiac
It means the spread of shells fired because of RNG ._.
rapid mirage
The problem is that RNG is not “clean” distribution number. In the last few updates every time I get shot my next shot, if immediately after, will miss. This even if I am right in front of the opponent. In addition, snapshots miss loads more lately then a few updates ago. I took the trouble to analyse some replays, and it clearly isn’t a normal distribution, and the deviation is worse now. My guess is that WG changed the mechanics of aiming/shot accuracy to punish tds taking fast shots and “forgot” to tell players.
remote oriole
Yeah, like I argued I reckon that they actually use that for balancing tanks, but i obviously can't really prove it other than shooting countless times
My RNG has always been great from my perspective, but that is probably more down to how you view it 👀
@vale sun I quite clearly marked it as a suspicion, and unless you can prove me wrong your counter argument is probably just as ridiculous. Just ignoring a possibility because there is no evidence (while it is impossible to access evidence) is an interesting choice to make
nimble zodiac
My RNG has been better recently 🤔
vale sun
I knew what it means, but obviously there's no evidence to support that WG actually uses it for balance purposes, which is why I referred to it as "tinfoil-hat".
To put it bluntly, I was ridiculing your use of it as an argument that the 140 has the same accuracy as the T62A.
rapid mirage
@remote oriole not exactly. They can use a TRNG on server side. Instead of an algorythm. As for tinfoil-hat...on analysis, the accuracy doesn’t come back as random. Admitedly, I only looked at 50 replays. And can’t be bothered to examine more.
remote oriole
If you take a closer look at the game, the maps and the vehicle stats you will find that everything is incredibly fine-tuned. Even if you only check out the slopes of certain hills you will find that they have a certain slope which allows tanks with specific gundepressions to use them, or shooting channels from certain camping positions intentionally built around the map, while others are blocked by rocks with a certain shape especially for that reason.
Almost everything in Blitz is built with great care and attention, and I bet that the developers are very aware of every step they take, and they were more likely than not aware what the heavy buff will do to the meta. A lot of thought and expertise goes into decisions concerning balance and game design. Why would they use all stats they have, going from dpm over alpha, dispersion, aim time, hp, credit coefficient, armour (with the overmatch mechanics) to view range, but not the distribution? What's so special about it?
jagged crescent
I bet that the developers are very aware of every step they take,
explain missiles
remote oriole
They decided that they want a new unique mechanic for Blitz, it was readily available and tried, so they reworked it a bit according to the feedback, tried it out, it didn't outperform statistically so they implemented.
The tanks overperformed (which might have been intended to draw players to the line) so they nerfed them, but since the missiles were tried and deemed balanced they nerfed the tanks (which were actually overperforming, unlike the missiles).
Due to the playerbase keeping complaining about the tanks and the tanks being very popular they decided that they should do something about it so they went ahead and nerfed the missiles, and also nerfed the Sheridan to lower the popularity of the line, especially in tournaments.
End of the story.
@mellow cape Do you have any source for that?
ionic ivy
Only thing going for sheridan is the mobility, the dpm is atrocious. I bet that once british lights are released, they will become the next tournament light because of their mobility increase over batchat and sheridan
frail silo
Only thing going for sheridan is the mobility, the dpm is atrocious. I bet that once british lights are released, they will become the next tournament light because of their mobility increase over batchat and sheridan
@ionic ivy ofc the new british lights are going to be the deal
have you checked their mobility
their armor values when they are hulldown?
their gun mantlet?
they are pErFeCtLy BalAnCeD
worthy fog
Buff leo 1 HE to 440 alpha pls
thick rover
!!
Yep like it too, but idk how that will affect blitz, like the 121 which was meant for high alpha
main tulip
I kinda like what PC did with the leo's alpha
shadow topaz
The leo already has great HE, no need to buff something that is balanced
orchid grove
@mellow cape Actually, ironically, it is accurate for Blitz, but is no longer accurate for PC, since they removed the gaussian accuracy
civic scaffold
The tier gap between tier 4 and 5 is like a lot, i think they has to do something about it
orchid grove
@mellow cape Triple overmatch != Guranteed pen. The shell will be guranteed to not autobounce, but it still has to actually pen the relative armor thickness
lunar ruin
KV-4 getting an armour buff in the near future.. Brilliant. I already got an insane amount of bounces in it while I was grinding the line, but now even more armour?? I’ll take it!👍🏻
fiery dagger
@mellow cape Normalization doesn't apply when overmatching comes in, respectively, over 70° angles, the shell has to penetrate the exact angle in exchange of not autobouncing.
scarlet fjord
I don't know what gun you have, but I played the Leopard 1 and the Obj. 140 and both perform better in terms of shooting on the move/ snapping
@remote oriole idk what drugs your using but the 62a is the most accurate gun in the game
lunar ruin
@remote oriole idk what drugs your using but the 62a is the most accurate gun in the game
@scarlet fjord I thought the Leo has the most accurate gun? 62A obviously being pretty dang close, if not almost similar stats. I haven’t played the Leo at all so just going by the word of other’s.
shadow topaz
They have the exact same dispersion stats, but the 62A has better aiming time
scarlet fjord
@shadow topaz exactly <
remote oriole
@scarlet fjord I love people like you who both come late and only know insults. Thanks for your nice contribution
noble siren
Uuh bruh?@hoary haven
thick rover
He's gonna get yeeted by pinkies
noble siren
What's with people posting this kind of things in random channels
unique scaffold
Lol, mobility buff for the American Bully.
Why does BT-20 (also known as A-20) have max speed 40kph when in reality it has max speed 75kph and without tracks 86kph? Same with BT-7.
Yep, but BTs had speed as armor, but now these tanks are useless
latent snow
This is not supposed to be a realistic game , should be pretty obvious with all the space tanks
gleaming apexBOT
Keno#6866 was muted
worthy fog
Leo 1 having more HE dpm than the wz121 doesnt say anything about its HE doing good, because it already has more dpm with regular shells....
Your literally doing 50 extra damage and risk splashing with the Leo 1 HE, how can you tell me that's "good".
fossil spruce
WG please add HE on T54E1
crystal spoke
@unique scaffold because the bts could only reach 86kph on a paved road going in a straight line also I'm fairly sure that they dropped the removable track idea after the bt7 due to its complexity and uselessness
fringe lion
Please buff t69,the stats are garbage for tier 8 and it can barely penetrate some tanks from the front,even with gold shells.And decrease the shell load to 1.5
unique scaffold
@crystal spoke
BTs would use removable tracks in central europe, where are qualite/good roads.
Yep, 86kph at road, but i can bet BTs was not max. speed 40kph in terrain. If other tanks should be same slow lots of german hevys had max speed 8kph
frigid basin
Armor buff for Löwe?
compact nymph
Löwe is fine. It’s got a decent hull that can bounce, a solid turret and gun depression with a laser-accurate gun. Aside from that, it makes enormous amounts of credits. If you want better hull armor and mobility, just play a Tiger II. Löwe doesn’t need a buff, really.
sturdy fractal
T69 is fine, you just has a very specific playstyle
crystal spoke
@unique scaffold the whole point of them being removable was to decrease the wear on the tracks during long road marches however once they got anywhere near where they were going to fight they would put back on the tracks and once the metallurgy improved to the point it was unnecessary this feature was immediately removed
unique scaffold
Ik, that feature is useless but with tracks BTs was much faster then now ;)
nimble zodiac
Lowe definitely doesn't need a buff, if you learn how it plays then it will be a great tank of choice for credit grinding (30 day)
dense walrus
personal stats mean nothing but yea it is fine
dense walrus
lowe is not broken at all
nimble zodiac
Lowe demands specific positions, the hull will not work in the open... against decent players
round bluff
lowe only feels underwhelming because the tiger 2 is busted
odd sandal
The point of premiums are to make credits
ionic ivy
If you want to get creds fast, just do 3k damage and get 3 kills every match with prem time
orchid grove
Kills don’t give any credits
noble siren
Lowe is a good tank cause it's very similar to the Tiger ll and earns credits really well
winged barn
The kills help with the win=more credits
vale sun
Lowe still is decent, even though the turret does not feel as strong as it did a year and a half ago
Main issue with it is that it can be boring to play
drifting depot
The armor is wack
nimble zodiac
I thought overmatch was an autopen because my 268 went right through T-25's super angled plate which appears to be over 400mm effective, but ima calculate real quick for two caliber
Oh yeah it def pens through normalization
naive ibex
bufffffff gun elevation to 90* in mighty pz.sfl 4c toaster like in big wot plsssss, 35 isnt enoughhhhh
coarse harness
You could do that with the smaller gun until 5.5
naive ibex
but there is not smaller gun in toaster now... sad toaster noises, it would be epic if that big gun could have that 90 of gun elevation
iron lynx
Hmm Rhm B WT has such a low WR… although it certainly doesn't feel weak to me
wet hornet
Please buff FV 4005 and replace its autoloader for the 183
distant river
^ or don't break tier 10 any more because the 4005 is fine how it is?
fiery dagger
Fv4005 clearly doesn't need a buff. And the autoloader is so much better than the 183
coarse harness
Give the grille spall liner
thick rover
Lol
quick lichen
Definitely don’t need two 183mm guns in the game. We have 1 of them already and it’s already ruined tier x
winged barn
I'll take another 183 over missiles
hearty steeple
It is not this or that. Both are bad. Both must go.
ionic ivy
Imagine thinking 4005 needs a 183mm gun. If you clip someone for 3 shots, it's the same as a 183 HESH shell. If you miss 1 shot, it's a 183 AP shell. Way more versatile than a 183.
drowsy plaza
More versatile, but you can’t HE pen a 183 very easily.
coarse harness
With it's spall liner some tanks deal less dmg with HE than with AP
steep glade
Is there a way to report riggers?
autumn zodiac
Send in a ticket to support @steep glade
stoic quest
I know that many will disagree with me, but please buff the T95. The whole point of the tank is to have rediculous frontal armor, but no mobility. But when you get penetrated more times then not because you either can't hide the weak lower plate, or an enemy hits and overmatches the top of the vehicle because the T95 has such a low profile, it really defeats the purpose of the vehicle. Devs please consider making the lower plate and the vehicle ceiling stronger to return this vehicle to its place. Thanks.
lone warren
I think the t95 could benefit from some more HP but I havent really thought about it
nimble zodiac
Weak lower plate? LMAOOOO, I prefer to shoot the cupolas
orchid grove
@nimble zodiac The lower plate is definitely a huge problem. It's way easier to shoot the lower plate then the cupolas
lone warren
Just load the gold and shoot it
The lower plate on the t28 should be buffed too IMO
nimble zodiac
Ah yes, gold rounds, I just thought it was funny because even at T95's gun level it's around 290mm effective
Yeah yeah normalization, always flies past me on armor checks
winged barn
I usually go for the lower plate at longer range
orchid grove
@nimble zodiac Depends on the ammo really. It's 250mm effective vs. AP, 270 vs. APCR, and 290vs. HEAT. Since it's so weak vs. AP, a lot of same tier heavies like M103 or IS-8 can pen it even without gold. And even with gold, it's much better to load the gold and pen it basically every time then having to aim in on the relatively small cupolas and risk a ricochet
lone warren
And then good luck when you get put in your tier ten games
stoic quest
The top of the vehicle is also only 38 millimeters, this along with the low profile of the tank makes it very easy to overmatch. A 120 millimeter gun will overmatch easily. This is especially evident with a maus or a E100 which are so tall they can hit the top every time.
nimble zodiac
I do commonly find myself peeking at the deck time to time... when there is a T95. Another thought to give when aiming for the cupolas, free RNG overmatch? ;)
empty glacier
the fv 4005 users should have the choice between the autoloader and the 183 cannon
nimble zodiac
Nope
crystal spoke
That's how you break t10 even more
lone warren
Tier for tier I think the t28 is still worse
main tulip
Both have far too low HP considering that they're supposed to be super heavy tanks
tribal osprey
I mean I’d like the 183 on the fv.
stoic quest
FOR CONTEXT:
T95: 95 Tons, 1600HP
Tortoise: 79 Tons, 1800HP
IS4: 58 Tons, 2650HP
T57 Heavy: 48.5 Tons, 2300HP
T110E5: approx 50 Tons, 2300HP
IS7: 46 Tons, 2500HP
FV215b: 77 Tons, 2100HP
AMX 50 b: 68 Tons, 2400HP
Couple other T9 TDs.
Jagdtiger: 74 Tons, 1800HP (almost same as tortoise)
WT auf Pz IV: 26 TONS, 1600 HP.
Why does the T95 have the same hp as the cardboard-on-wheels WT auf? And look between T95 and the IS4. 95 has twice the weight, and 900 less hp.
I know that most of these are T10 heavies, which means that even though they are lighter, they are more resilient. Naturally. But the gap between is a bit large. What do you guys think about this?
PS: Sorry, I appear to have written a book. I hope these stats help.
nocturne mauve
T1 heavy weighs more than T57
stoic quest
57 tons(ironically), yes, but that is teir 5. Whole different matter.
fiery turtle
The Action X should not have both better armour AND better mobility than the tech tree Caernarvon. That's unfair.
British Tier 8's need more engine power to fit the new fast meta.
The tech tree Caernarvon should receive a new top engine, the same 950 hp Rolls-Royce Griffon that the Conqueror has.
The Centurion I medium should also receive a new top engine, the 810 hp Rolls-Royce Meteor M120 that's in the Caernarvon.
nimble zodiac
Give Caernarvon a buff in speed, then let their own consumables cover the rest
narrow drift
Give the Jackson a armor upgrade or a small health upgrade
strong solstice
buff T95's frontal armor or buff the hp. The only ones that cant pen the frontal armor is new players(grind line is pretty bad too)
unique scaffold
buff T95's frontal armor or buff the hp. The only ones that cant pen the frontal armor is new players(grind line is pretty bad too)
@strong solstice frontal armor is better. Why have a slow tank, and enemy are suposed to not pen its frontal armor, but what actually happen is the armor look like it's made from glass
jagged crescent
I'm all for the HP buffs of the Pseudo-Heavies(+100-200 hp for TDs like the Jageroo, T95, and etc)
nocturne mauve
Reverse the heavy buffs
jagged crescent
why not just give the meds and tds a sliver of hp
drifting depot
Not the meds tho, they're annoying and competitive enough like they are currently..... except for maybe the leopard 1 aside from the speed and dpm, not used so much in competitive anyway
slim rivet
Since I get Action X, please buff Action X WG, it’s so unfair, it need more armor, mobility and a better alpha
lunar ruin
A lot of talk about buffing the T95’s armour... yet I’m still struggling to hit “weak” spots 🤷🏻♂️ I think it’s fine.
thick rover
Which weak spots? The cupola?
rich merlin
Lower plate
thick rover
How do you struggle to hit that unless your prammo is bad
upper lodge
He probably plays stock ST-1. KEKW
lunar ruin
Cupolas are fine and can hit those fairly consistently, but the lower plate still gives me issues. It’s either the shell hits the ground, or derps up and hits the actual hull. 😅
bold kettle
WG i have a problem i was playing on my tier 7 but thers tier 8 playing sometime i cant pen the armor hope this gets fix in the update
frail silo
Since I get Action X, please buff Action X WG, it’s so unfair, it need more armor, mobility and a better alpha
@slim rivet wdym it is unfair
It is literally miles better than the tech tree counterpart
solid acorn
@bold kettle Are you serious?
compact nymph
He’s either a troll or one of the reasons I lost any bit of hope for humans
slim rivet
@frail silo i was imitating the reasoning of most of the community.... I don’t find it to be better than the caenarvon btw
frail silo
That is a funny joke
But okay
thick rover
ahahahah
north peak
I am surprised wargaming has not nerfed the ISU-152 because the pen on it is extremely good. It has 300mm with AP, 345mm with APCR and 99mm with HE if you use calibrated shells. I pen at least 98% of my shots.
compact nymph
It’s because aside from it’s dpm, pen and alpha it’s pretty mediocre. Mobility isn’t that great. You shouldn’t rely on the armor unless it hits the gun mantlet. The accuracy itself is far from brilliant. The gun sure hits hard, but seeing it’s mediocre armor and average mobility, I wouldn’t call it OP.
north peak
Well I think it is good when effective sniping (camping) at the back of the map. I mean my dmg usually ranges from 2-3k every game.
iron lynx
It's all about the gun, and nothing else on that tank
stiff edge
if a tank is all about the gun, usually the best idea is to play a safer role, aka camping
but at least do it well, ive had so many newer players not know how to lead shots
rich merlin
@north peak shhsshhh I just got my BL-10 gun. Let me enjoy it, besides it's a tank destroyer that can be killed easily in close range
winged barn
Dont mind me as I frontline with my isu.
You want to peek that corner? Be my guest little tiger 2, I'm gonna win this trade, and also track you.
lunar ruin
I thought they buffed the Tiger II?? as i look at it through my BL-10
ionic ivy
BL-10 makes everything irrelevant
compact nymph
The tank itself would probably make most other T8 TD’s irrelevant if it wasn’t that slow and poorly armored => easy to take out
lunar ruin
It’s just scary on the receiving end. You just know you’re going to slapped in the face and you can’t do anything about it haha
coarse harness
It has the second best DPM among T8 TDs (according to blitzhangar) tho which is quite broken for a 152mm gun
Apart from camo and turret the ISU is better than the RHM in pretty much everything
orchid grove
@coarse harness it’s technically 3rd if the JT88 uses the 8,8cm
jagged crescent
So on par with the JG88 in most cases
ionic ivy
ISU isn't really terrifying, since most ISU drivers are incompetent, i just over angle the front of my type 59 and bounce the 640 AP
autumn zodiac
In terms of trading ISU-152 can't win too often. Sure it does more damage but by % of health a normal 122 shot does 40% of it's health vs. About 33% of a heavy tank's health
dense walrus
it can easily pen said heavy and has probably a similar reload
compact nymph
I agree with @ionic ivy. They either die first yoloing in 1st line, or camp and lose, because even the farmed damage doesn’t always make your team win. Especially counting you’re not going to clutch everyday a 1vs4 in a turretless, fairly slow and squishy tank like an ISU, unless all the enemies go afk.
nocturne mauve
Before it was worth it to go and tackle a tier 8 heavy alone, but now they have too much HP to bleed so it ain’t worth it...
winged barn
People don't like to push on that boomstick
compact nymph
Why pushing an ISU when they most of time get focused once spotted? Get 2 or 3 tanks firing at an ISU and pretty much all of it’s hit points are gone, forcing him to play even more passively and basically try to survive as a 1 shot. I try to get enemy ISUs to get focused and killed as early as possible and it works fine, as it’s not the tank you’re gonna use to snapshot (rlly inaccurate tbh)
winged barn
Its russian, why would you not snapshot?
meager spruce
Best way to deal with tier 8 TDs is rolling out in an IS3 Defender
compact nymph
Its russian, why would you not snapshot?
@winged barn because of 2,44 sec of base aim time, 0,371 dispersion and 0,25/0,25 dispersion factors on the move/when rotating
winged barn
Rely on rng a bit. Works 88% of the time for me.
turbid ridge
I am one of those "effective snipers" in the ISU
drifting depot
Ngl for whatever reason the isu does short work of a lot of tanks if played like an assault gun..... surprisingly a lot of people shoot the mantlet .-.
dense walrus
^^^ I think the armor is fine considering the gun.
winged barn
Autoaimers shoot the mantlet
turbid ridge
Played 150 battles in it in the past week, Free XPed the BL10 and The thing is a solid tank, tho I do think that only having 10 more base HP then the SU is a bit sad, just giving it 200 more health would allow it to get that last trade shot to win the game
main tulip
I would rather they buffed the health and nerfed the dpm a little to compensate
orchid grove
ISU is honestly fine tho
lone warren
The isu doesnt need a buff
A tier 8 td that actually needs a buff is the T28
unique scaffold
Isu 152 is as good as it is
formal vale
Yeah the ISU is one of the higher end TDs at tier 8. Hell, the HE alone is extremely devastating. If you're struggling in the tank, I recommend watching some videos about it or asking for more info in #vehicles-discussion @turbid ridge
turbid ridge
Oh nah, I have a 56%WR in the tank and climbing... just had a learning curve, thx though
fathom quest
The hatch on the t95 should get buffed
formal vale
@fathom quest and therein give it no frontal weak spots? I think not
dense walrus
the lower plate is garbage what are you talking about
ionic ivy
bottom of the hull exists??
You can overmatch the roof with 120mm guns???
nimble zodiac
“Garbage” It’s rather effective though, even angled slightly for tier 9s
lone warren
The cupolas on top are perfectly fine and should not be changed. The only times people will be hitting them is in close quarters really. Hitting them from a distance is sketchy because unlike the T28, the T95 cupolas can pull off ricochets and arent as flush to hit.
The lower plate on the T95 is around only 250mm thick (probably not exactly the right number) . Essentially, most equal tier and top tier enemies can easily go through it with standard rounds, or gold rounds, and its much easier to hit than the cupolas. The only tanks that will struggle to go through the lower plate will be tier 8 heavies and meds that will out maneuver you anyway.
Its pretty much the same issue on the T28 but its worse, because the lower plate is even weaker tier for tier and its bigger, it has no side armour and its cupolas are weaker than the T95s.
nocturne mauve
Let’s not create another broken tank, just keep it the way it is
fathom quest
Let me rephrase that the front hatch should get buffed also it can get flanked easily even by some heavies or at least buff the speed the t95 have the one in pc has four more speed than on mobile
regal grove
Give T95 more hp, not armor. It’s getting the super speed boost in 7.0 anyways
fathom quest
Like a 250 hp boost and 20 or 25 speed
nimble zodiac
How about we wait till it gets the 7.0 consumables and see then?
thick rover
Balance this face?
Above picture has been spammed in numerous channels
dim field
Yeah and it's not even funny to begin with.
thick rover
Mods hibernating
neat dome
i think lekpz m41 needs some kinda speed buff ..... ru 251 is a tech tree tank still better in every ashpect than the premium lekpz :/ without the alpha damage...... speed/depression/viewrange everything is better in ru 251
nimble zodiac
Actually many prefer the black bulldog over the RU
carmine dome
M48 Patton needs some kind of buff
unique scaffold
Lol ru is worse wym speed is the only atrribute its bigger thinner has generally worse GD angles
formal vale
@neat dome no the m41 90 really doesn't need a buff.
@carmine dome it only needs a minor one. I'd say WG should just buff the top speed to 50kph and increase the turret armor across the front (excluding the cupola, leave that weak)
fossil spruce
you want buff? buff smasher please
unique scaffold
T110E4 needs a buff.. atleast a armor buff would be fine with me.
nimble zodiac
+Cheek Armor and dip 😂
unique scaffold
Redesign*
queen stag
Instead of buffing Grille DPM why dont u buff grille accuracy on the move
queen stag
Seriosly ? it had really bad accuracy on the move
oh yeah and also rework dynasty pearl plz the map is just too cancer for some tank
fossil spruce
Just please add HE on T54E1. Why still no HE like batchat? 😕
fiery dagger
HE on bat-chat is literally useless. only +40 damage and you risk splashing.
lone warren
@neat dome lekpz has better soft stats than the ru 251, it accelerates faster than it as the ru 251 has not that great terrain resistances for a light tank.
The lekpz has a better gun, that has more accuracy and alpha damage than the ru 251.
still jackal
it's premium that's why
hushed fox
RU has better camo and dispersion during movement
unique scaffold
Ru isn't the size of a house either
unique scaffold
Just one comment: I have virtually stopped playing Tier 10 and 9 games due to the Sheridan and T92E. Drivers of those tanks generally don't participate in the battles other than to hide and wait until they can take a missile kill shot. In other instances, matchmaker will put two sheridans on the other team and maybe a B-C on our team. If you are in a TD and get spotted, you will be ganged up on by both sheridans and obliterated. You own teammates usually cannot defend against such an attack. These tanks have changed the dynamic of Tier 10 and 9 matches to the point where it is not longer fun to play those tiers. Thanks for listening to and considering these comments.
bold kettle
you can take advantage but if you turn ur wholl tank not just the turet u might shot it
frail silo
What you are saying is a really really old argument
It doesn't even happen that much and they don't ruin any t10 or 9 games
They already have been nerfed and are going to get nerfed even more
The missiles are broken yes but they still don't ruin entire games as you say
I am still playing on t10 and t9 and literally not that much changed
bold kettle
i think sheridan got nerf on 6.10 i think when they buff the heavy tier9 and 10 i think sheridan cant pen you if you angle ur tank just the right angle
supple barn
jgpze100 needs a hitpoint buff
jagged crescent
Most of the pseudo-heavies (chonky tds) need a tiny hitpoint buff
thick rover
🤡
whole topaz
I think, the Leopard PT A needs a buff on it's gun depression (from 6 to 8 or 9, in real life there were ONLY prototypes with -9°) and better concealment (add 15% of each factor to the factor itself; e.g. 33%+4,95%=37,95%). It has pretty much everything a light tank has except the concealment and EVERY other to the leo similar tank has more gun depression. If a medium or light tank hasn't got armor, IT HAS TO HAVE GUN DEPRESSION. But because of all the other new tanks it got worse and worse. Since the Leo PT A hasn't been touched for at least the last seven updates and it is one of the worst performing medium tanks for a very long time, you should give this left alone beauty some attention!
noble siren
@supple barn more like cheek buff
frail silo
@whole topaz you are simply making leo1 pointless
@whole topaz maybe
lunar niche
With how WG is buffing german paper tanks, PTA will likely get a dpm buff instead. Still a good one in this case.
whole topaz
@frail silo Well, the leo pta is simply the leo 1's small brother but right now it doesnt really feel like that. And a tier 10 is never pointless, just look at the e50 and e50m: The e50 really is played like the e50m.
neat dome
the age is by stats :p not real age
nocturne mauve
@whole topaz the tank is fine, and if it doesn’t work for you it’s your own problem
drowsy plaza
Admittedly the Leo PTA could use some love. Especially since the HT HP buff
hybrid frigate
WZ-120 stock grind in insane..
noble siren
Leo should get one too, it's not that special against other meds anymore
jagged crescent
DPM buff
noble siren
I said it before. It's concealment or better gun, or better speed.
zenith zenith
Mobility buff for the bulldog ??? is that a joke ?
winged barn
We all know wg...
zenith zenith
That Bulldog is already a great light tank wtf
bold dagger
its terrible but ok
autumn zodiac
It was great when they added it but apparently not for most people
winged barn
Increasing its speed will not make it better. It is already stupidly fast
sweet prism
At least it will be harder to control LOL
high patrol
Yeah
zenith zenith
In this case, why arent they buffing the T49, which has a bit worst mobility ? I'll never understand WG...
nimble zodiac
T49 is special already
unique scaffold
You do know t49 was nerfed long ago right
autumn zodiac
T49 is still really good
unique scaffold
Lol. Please buff the T49. It really doesn't need one but please buff it.
formal vale
If WG gave the T49 a standard HE round with 960 damage, all hell would break loose lmao
empty copper
Centurion I buff maybe? It's been at or near the bottom of the balance charts as long as I can remember. It used to have the Panther II for company down there, but that got buffed and now the Centurion I is lonely.
I'm thinking maybe a small turret armour buff, or improved hp/t?
jagged crescent
Ik the E75's tough and all but. Does the gun handling really have to be that derpy?
nimble zodiac
Uhhh, it's actually pretty nice
quasi cloud
Tbh i think cent 1 cent 7/1 should maybe get 45-50 km/hr top speed? Ppl tho played cent knew how stupid it was to chase faster things as myself as well lol
fossil spruce
Just buff the T49 HEAT pen a little. And add HE on T54E1
crisp elm
What do yall think of the CDC. Its needs a small buff
empty copper
I think Cent 7/1 is pretty balanced though, the turret is actually strong and the dreadful APCR DPM is balanced by the miracle of HESH. I'm a bit biased though because a high-ping connection makes pew-pew guns very hard to do damage with.
main tulip
CDC's gun handling is really bad considering the speed, so it's super hard to hit shots on the move
drifting depot
Need to have a drawback other than well, size and armor I guess
jagged crescent
@nimble zodiac nice with the equipment maxxed out?
Because to be fair, I don’t have all the equipment yet
unique scaffold
One thing. Grille kind of became obsolete because of the Sheridan and the t9e. Those rocket tanks just hunt it down into oblivion
wind bough
How about buffing and increasing the Progetto 65 acceleration from 0-40/50ish .. for the medium which it doesnt have enough armor and poor tracks on certain positions the acceleration i think its a little low tbh.. WG nerfed the Engine too much ..
unique scaffold
"Buff grille dpm" as a player of the grille 15, this is honestly completely unnecessary.
olive sorrel
Sheridan nerf. As a player of sheridan, this is honestly completely necessary...pls nerf it further
nimble zodiac
Did the update come out? No Sheridan convos should be made until we observe how it performs after 7.0
frail silo
its terrible but ok
@bold dagger no it is not but okay
olive sorrel
Did grille buff come out? No grille convos should be made before we see how it performs after 7.0
bold dagger
@bold dagger no it is not but okay
@frail silo its terrible
when was the last time you saw a Bulldog and thought “oh that’s not free damage”
its nice and tall to get HE’ed well, and has an underwhelming gun. sure its got good mobility but its not enough
frail silo
The gun ain't underwhelming
It has got good dpm and good speed and its drawback is height and armor
But that can be avoided with smart play
Also it is excellent at CoD and a beast against slow-reloading tanks
violet sonnet
Missiles should be harder to control in 7.0 cuz this is too much fun
fossil spruce
wg keep nerfing sheridan while knowing the real problem is the missile. I wonder how devs brain works
sharp depot
Exactly. Sheridan is a light tank, so it should be fast. Instead of nerfing mobility, they should give dmg per shot buff and remove rockets
hearty steeple
Anyone who has played the Sheridan enough knows that the tank was overcooked even without the missiles. It will still be fast with the nerf, but more in line with the other light tanks in the tier
olive sorrel
Lol dmg per shot buff
coarse harness
The bulldog is pretty good
It's among the best T7 tech tree lights
The AMX and the SP I C deserve their buff but I'm not sure about the others
If they need anything that's not extra mobility for sure
unique scaffold
@coarse harness Bulldog is the best t7 light
lunar ruin
I like to run double Bulldog platoons because of that hilarious flanking ability 😂 this buff is more than welcome in my opinion haha
plush perch
lttb is better than bulldog
upper lodge
Type 62 is better too
nimble zodiac
If AMX 13 75 had comfortable gun elevation, It’d be more capable to pull off clips in the chaotic med/light dogfights
unique scaffold
Can anyone give the stats of the upcomming buffs for IS6 and Grille? I think that 20~30 mm frontal armor for is 6 will be very valuable... And increase of dmg per shot for grille is also better since it already have high rate of fire. Maybe 680 or 700 alpha
coarse harness
The bulldog and the LTTB is different in many ways so it's hard to say which is better
But the T71 is better than the AMX no dubts
olive sorrel
@crystal kiln whennn
noble siren
and yet still no buff for Leo...
quasi cloud
@empty copper i’m totally agree with that statement since i used to that already and its playstyle revolve around having patience and punish enemys for their mistake anyways besides aren’t we all love slap ppl with max roll for 550 in the face and watch them cry?
unique scaffold
Yo the t32 desperately needs some love. That thing has been power creeped to oblivion. Literally, I don't ever see t32s in battle nowadays
winged barn
T32 is fine
frail silo
T32 is fine
@winged barn funny joke
winged barn
I firmly stand behind what I said. It the best hull down tank in the tier and has fancy consumables along with high hp. It has the same role as a maus in matches.
stiff edge
t32 is a nice hull down tank
what its lacking in pen it has in consumables and armour
coarse harness
A bit better accuracy wouldn't break the tank tho
pastel viper
^
frail silo
being able to penetrate in that tank won't harm anyone
and no it doesn't work like a maus simply because you don't get to hulldown in every single match
you have no armor other than your turret
orchid grove
If you don’t get to hull down in every single match, I have no idea what you’re doing. There’s hull down cover everywhere
sweet prism
When you are not in a OP tier 8 premium, even it's hull has some nice armour. Look at it with 175 mm pen, avg tier 8 tech tree med pen...
I checked blitzhangar it has 200mm plus effective armour all over front plate
One isn't meant to use its hull armour reliably at the first place. And if you poke out from behind a ridge sideways not exposing drivewheel like obj 140s, front plate becomes 250+
compact nymph
175mm was the average pen for T8 meds years ago. Now it has kind of completely changed
frail silo
If you don’t get to hull down in every single match, I have no idea what you’re doing. There’s hull down cover everywhere
@orchid grove no comment
@sweet prism uhhhh 175mm on the hull is not much at tier 8 but okay
autumn zodiac
175mm was not the average pen for tier 8 meds Ever. That was the lowest value.
175
180
203
212
226.
That was the value for meds at around 2.0. The average was a little under 200 at 199.6 @compact nymph 193.5 and a lot of other unnecessary decimal places is the current average for tech tree
compact nymph
@sweet prism nice « 200mm plus effective armor all over the front plate » you got there. Anyways, some T8 meds will punch trough the upper plate with AP, even more if facehugging. It’s hull is certainly better than the T34, but I would avoid relying on it against enemies able to aim
gaunt zealot
Make the SU-85B Faster and have slightly more armor. It sucks that I just get it and take like 135 per shot and not even a single block
sweet prism
@compact nymph I don't know what t32 you are looking at, clearly it has 127 mm upper plate as stated in the game, not 95
I went back and checked again, 95 mm plate is the lower plate. It isn't meant to be strong...
dark lion
https://vm.tiktok.com/EGQHSB/. Black lives matter
dense walrus
@dark lion no modern politics discussion
ionic ivy
Maybe he's trying to start a balance discussion
compact nymph
@sweet prism Next time just be accurate and mention « upper plate » instead of « front plate » which might lead people to think you are pretending that the T32’s whole hull front is over 200mm thick (obviously not the case). Even then, the upper plate isn’t that strong and aside from the troll bounces any tank can get, only low pen meds/T7s will really struggle to pen the ufp.
winged barn
When using the depression the upper plate gets really strong. Very nice to bait shots with
drifting depot
You're already hulldown, why show the hull to bait shots and risk getting penned...... all the t32 needs is accuracy and pen, pen doesn't matter all that much cause consumables make up for it by giving it mobility or damage resistance
winged barn
I show it because it is not really a risk. The bl10 might go through, but that's about it
stoic quest
All lives matter bro. What is color but the difference of what light rays you bounce. All people matter. And that is the truth.
I don't like the T30. I prefer my T95.
unique scaffold
why do people like the T30, it has the lowest DPM in its tier, and its accuracy is horrible, and its slow
dense walrus
hulldown and derp
winged barn
Really flexible big gun
orchid grove
Turret + Huge gun
nimble zodiac
Obj. 704 can only troll sidescrape with a BL-10
main tulip
Huge guns aren't fun at all for me, way too derpy
crystal spoke
The great part about the t30 is it's not nearly as in accurate as most derp guns
bold kettle
@Admiral Hipper yes i troll saying i have problem sorry for trolling if ur reading this im not serious when i type that
i just type it i dint know they buff the tier 10
wet wharf
T54e1 needs an alpha damage and intraclip buff. T57 heavy needs a speed and intraclip buff.
long pendant
Hello
sweet prism
@compact nymph Only a few special people would go find what is the thickness in the lower plate armour when verifying the frontal hull armour. Just show your lower plate in every tank and be happy.
unique scaffold
T30 is overrated as hell. The WT pz is way better.
The t32 desperately needs a buff. It's redundant in it's current state.
still jackal
and have you seen its stock grind? Its first turret has 114!mm of armor on the front
fiery dagger
There's a thing called free xp.
olive sorrel
Lol t57 needs intraclip buff?
unique scaffold
but for the few people that don't have free xp available they'll have to tough it out in a slow tank with no Armor and a bad gun.
hearty steeple
T54 stock has 175mm pen. Best of luck with that in tier 10 games... Or you can save up free xp and get a top gun. You know free xp is quite easy to accumulate lately.
compact nymph
@sweet prism To be clear, you claimed it to have nice hull armor if not facing OP tier 8 premiums, and mentioned how supposedly low the average pen for T8 mediums was. First of all, 34 out of the 82 T8 tanks are tech tree ones. The only tanks that will really struggle to pen your hull are low pen meds (T69, T-44, Pershing, ...). Secondly, you said « only a few special people would go check the lower plate’s thickness ». On the battlefield, I can tell you you’ll meet a lot of those « special people ». Most medium tanks will either go through the upper plate if they can, butter your lower plate or if needed just throw gold. The point is, in a T32 jsut hulldown and do not bother about showing your hull. Exposing it will only get you to he penned.
sweet prism
Yes it's my bad after paying the game 5 yrs I take some things for granted. Like I exoect everyone to know you don't sit out in open in any tank, every tank has stronger upper hull than lower, tanks has bad armour on their back, you want to expose your tank the minimum to get your shots off by staying hull diwn etc. I should have phrased clearer.
drowsy plaza
@sweet prism I don’t know what server you play, but players with common sense are few and far between. HullUp to be farmed seems to be the preference for play style of most players
compact nymph
^ also "every tank has a stronger upper hull than lower"
laughs in Tiger II
fiery flame
Tiger 2 needs a nerf, it’s armour is bs
coarse harness
The tank has no weakness and that's bs
karmic steeple
Just load pramo
unique scaffold
^ u don’t need to nerf it lol. It’s so easy to pen with pramo. Legit butter. And if ur a medium the turret ring should be butter. When you can’t afford pramo 🤡. If you can’t afford using pramo for one tank which is not in every game idk what u are doing. @distant river with a medium you shouldn’t be facing a tiger two front smh @unique scaffold no I haven’t because I don’t seal club t8 unless I’m grinding credits @stiff edge u are experienced so I’m correct tiger two can easily be penned right? @unique scaffold imagine having that name still
It’s awful when you have to loose money/ coins to win in games, try flanking tiger 2. If you can’t, just run away and pen some other people
distant river
@karmic steeple Average med prammo cannot pen any of it at all.
@unique scaffold I have no idea what you are on but it's literally impenetrable to mediums (except the cupola but that's a pathetically small weakspok so it might as well not exist), and good luck sacrificing your dpm with prammo when it has a great gun to murder you with.
@unique scaffold Flanking isn't an option when it's that fast, and if your solution is run away then please get off this server and learn what balance means.
fiery flame
Or you know, it will be nerfed and fall in line with every other tier 8 heavy in the game by having a weak spot
unique scaffold
If you can’t afford using pramo for one tank which is not in every game idk what u are doing.
@unique scaffold
Have you played T8 recently? There's at least one tiger II per game.
Imagine thinking playing t8 is sealclubbing
hearty steeple
They are not going to nerf the armour. Ribble has mentioned it a couple of times, if tiger 2 gets a nerf it will be its dynamics (or rather mobility)
stiff edge
if i could call tiger 2 anything it would be a fat heavium with heavy armour
compact nymph
Or you know, it will be nerfed and fall in line with every other tier 8 heavy in the game by having a weak spot
Well yes, but actually no. WG announced they were happy to see how the buff had effects on the tank’s peformance, and if they nerf it it will be the mobility. So, it will remain a heavy with no weakspot aside from the cupola. Deal with it
unique scaffold
Also you do realize if it turns it’s turret just a bit u can pen it? I have to problem penning it’s turret ring if it’s staring at me. Also if ur complaining u can’t pen you should shoot other tanks or tanks should go flank it. Idk why you all think it’s so op @distant river so ur saying it will stare at u the whole game? Think for a second pls.
frail silo
Well yes, but actually no. WG announced they were happy to see how the buff had effects on the tank’s peformance, and if they nerf it it will be the mobility. So, it will remain a heavy with no weakspot aside from the cupola. Deal with it
@compact nymph doesn't the turret become an easy pen with prammo for most meds ?
unique scaffold
@fiery flame Tiger 2 is the forward model for tiger family, so it must be bs
distant river
It needs an armour rework rather than a specific nerf. It needs a lower plate nerf and an upper plate buft.
@compact nymph And WG also thought that the Foch autoloader was a good idea, as well as all of their completely and utterly stupid balance changes.
@unique scaffold So then you are relying on him making a mistake, and good luck hitting that small side of the turret when he's hammering you with his amazing gun. Killing other targets doesn't make the tiger balanced. Flanking it isn't an option when it's fast enough to reposition.
@frail silo Nope average med prammo can't go through it at all (On the flat, with no cover whatsoever only a good angle)
unique scaffold
If it turns a slight bit you can pen small areas
compact nymph
@distant river I do not work for Wargaming neither I agree with all the balance changes they supposedly consider as good for the game (or their cash incomes).
unique scaffold
You can't do shit against him if you're facing him except hit the small coupola. If you're in a heavy that doesn't outmaneuver him you can't relocate enough and you have to completely rely on your teammates. Good luck in this game
distant river
@unique scaffold Small areas if he turns a bit. See how that's an issue?
@compact nymph The tiger 2 is completely broken I should not be able to manage 70% WR including crew and some of the module grinds. I should not be able to happily sit in the open and know it will take heavy prammo or high pen TDs to do anything.
unique scaffold
But blitz has 6 other players. You can shoot it when it’s looking somewhere, medium tanks are good at flanking. You just need it to look in the other direction. You ever fight any IS tanks head on?
The pc version has more players.
@distant river
compact nymph
@distant river As a Tiger II player I do agree it is indeed broken. However, I stated above that Wargaming announced a while ago they were happy to see how the tank’s armor was efficient and if they had to nerf it, the said message told it would probably affect the mobility, but not the armor. I do not work for Wargaming, telling me something I already know will not change the tank’s statistics.
unique scaffold
@unique scaffold It’s called shooting other targets until the tiger stops staring at you. It’s turret isn’t good enough to block all angles of fire. @unique scaffold 🙏. Even if u 1v1 it med can kill it and u should be able to get around it or shoot pramo and ez pen. Also with the balance changes chart you could see it’s not the most op in terms of wr
@unique scaffold It’s called shooting other targets until the tiger stops staring at you. It’s turret isn’t good enough to block all angles of fire
@unique scaffold
That’s what I said! Just hope the tiger 2 isn’t the last tank and you 1 vs 1 it.
next widget
Pretty all the heavies t8 can pen tiger 2. When u approach a tiger 2 in close range, the angle between ur gun and his upper plate is reduced, and it become rlly easy to pen. However, at med and long range, you will struggle, yes. But don't say tiger 2 is op, it's not. And in a medium tank, you can also easely encircle a tiger 2. Guys ! Just shoot tracks! Tiger hasn't the best dpm and even his hull rotation is good, it's not the same for his heavy turret. I agree, WG should rework his armor : as someone said, better upper plate and thinner lower plate would make it more balanced.
karmic steeple
Lol meds were never supposed to pen a tiger 2 easily and you can still pen the cupola/cheeks.
nocturne mauve
Sure, as if the cupola is a reliable weakspot
distant river
@unique scaffold So you need more than 1 player to kill it? That means it's broken. Meds cannot flank something like that. I generally don't but it's pretty easy to do, especially when they are out in the open. Against a tiger that is impossible.
@compact nymph WG don't have a clue how broken the tiger 2 is and that doesn't mean it's acceptable.
@unique scaffold Do I have to tell you again? It's impenetrable to med prammom. Try listening for once.
@next widget Only heavies known for their high pen can pen it, and if you think facehugging the tiger is a tactic that can be used in anything except rare circumstances then you are pretty stupid. The tiger has good dpm and pen and alpha, as well as a broken armour profile. It is definitely op
unique scaffold
@distant river it doesn’t matter because u should not be facing it frontally. Also just don’t focus it and you have 6 other tanks to shoot from smh. Tigers turret is weak. If it’s not directly looking at you, you can pen it. Meaning it will be getting shot from different angles causing it to constant move it’s turret allowing you to pen it. I don’t think you understand how meds are supposed to play. You shouldn’t even be facing heavies till you cleared the enemy mediums. Also looking at your panther two stats, you think tiger two is op? U do much better in panther so what now that is classified as op?
compact nymph
Not all T8 heavies can pen a Tiger II with standard ammo when facehugging (talking as a Tiger II player and facing it in other heavies). About mediums, tracking a tank to pen it in the side doesn’t means the tank isn’t OP. Pretty much any tank in the game can be penned through the side, yet there are OP tanks in this game. @distant river Considering they are giving the E3 consumables shows they barely have a clue of what the word « balance » stands for. I mostly stopped expecting reasonable balance changes from Wargaming.
distant river
@unique scaffold You don't have a choice when it's got the mobility of a heavium. Again if you argument is based off "just don't shoot it" then get out of this server and learn what balance is. I know exactly how to play meds as my stats will tell you, and the tiger is literally made to run with meds so you don't have a choice at all. I have 4% lower WR and 200 less damage in the panther and I adore that tank and will happily club people in it, the tiger lets me do exactly the same just without thinking at all. The tiger is no challenge at all and I only really play it when I'm tired and want easy games, because it's impossible to do badly in it.
lone warren
Imo, the tigers lower plate is way too strong. If that gets changed, then the tank will be fine.
round bluff
Lol tiger 2's only weakspot to the generic tier 8 medium is a 4 pixel wide turret weakspot. Good luck.
compact nymph
« it's impossible to do badly in it. »
laughs in 40% players driving sideways
unique scaffold
WTF! People wants to nerf Tiger II only good strong point.The rest of the tank is average, mobility is bit worse than T34. Also, with stronger frontal armor, Tiger II is now historically acurate in armor question. The real project have armor that is hard for many tanks of its level or worse pen it. But tier 9 tanks pen the frontal armor as they re cutting butter. So, the tank is perfectly balanced now.
next widget
@distant river Yes I think higging the tiger 2 is a better way to pen its frontal armor than trying pen him from higher range. It's almost impossible. The tiger 2 gets in trouble when fighting in close range. It's physics. The angle reduces with range. But if you are face hugging a tiger 2, you're not playing the better way. Furthermore I think It's absolutely normal that the tiger has this armor. If it had not, it will be bad tank, entirely penable. If you think the tiger 2 is OP, then there is no reason to not think the same for ISU.
distant river
@unique scaffold Yeah it's one good strong point that is it's armour/mobility/gun. The tiger never had this amount of armour historically, and this game isnt historically accurate at all. It's not perfect at all it's completely and utterly broken you never balance a tank based off other tiers.
@next widget And how often do you think you are going to facehug him without being murdered by the rest of the reds? The tiger was fine when it had no armour, it required skill.
The ISU isn't impenetrable and has no turret, and is not op.
unique scaffold
@unique scaffold So you need more than 1 player to kill it? That means it's broken. Meds cannot flank something like that. I generally don't but it's pretty easy to do, especially when they are out in the open. Against a tiger that is impossible.
@compact nymph WG don't have a clue how broken the tiger 2 is and that doesn't mean it's acceptable.
@unique scaffold Do I have to tell you again? It's impenetrable to med prammom. Try listening for once.
@next widget Only heavies known for their high pen can pen it, and if you think facehugging the tiger is a tactic that can be used in anything except rare circumstances then you are pretty stupid. The tiger has good dpm and pen and alpha, as well as a broken armour profile. It is definitely op
@distant river
No, I mean it’s a team focused game. You are meant to follow the role you are designed for. Light spot and flank, mediums flank with more health. Heavies are at the front and tds stay either near the heavies or at the back depending on armour.
Dfltz
Maybe wrong wording, but there are roles. Lights don’t rush into heavies and attack frontally
@round bluff
What u mean copy honour. Everyone knows there are roles
@unique scaffold
Which part?
round bluff
So then how does a T44 deal with a tiger 2?
unique scaffold
@unique scaffold u just copied honour message right? @round bluff u aren’t supposed to until end game. Ur supposed to focus on killing meds/lights as well as tds @unique scaffold that is the exact thing he said above
distant river
@unique scaffold Yes well done, but if you are focusing all of your balance points on the fact that "just flank it" when it's a mobile heavy with a great gun then you are completely wrong.
The tiger is meant to run with meds, which means it shouldn't be impenetrable to then
compact nymph
Just took a look at my Tiger II in the garage. Fully kitted out, I get up to 42,76 degrees of traverse. I wish you good luck reliably circling that in a medium tank. Edit: @unique scaffold peeking and shooting from cover is pointless if you aren’t going to pen
unique scaffold
@unique scaffold Yes well done, but if you are focusing all of your balance points on the fact that "just flank it" when it's a mobile heavy with a great gun then you are completely wrong.
The tiger is meant to run with meds, which means it shouldn't be impenetrable to then
@distant river
I’ve never seen 1 keep up with mediums. They always stay with heavies in my games
@compact nymph
With other people. Peak and shoot from cover. I don’t mean circle it
round bluff
And what if the tiger 2 is a mid 55%er who has a sense of how to play? Or for that matter, a 60%er looking to club? How would you outsmart the driver in your 185 ap pen tier 8 medium?
next widget
@round bluff Run, reset ur camo, then come from another angle ; don't stop running and congratulations, you have circled a tiger 2
distant river
@unique scaffold Then you are blessed with having not seen competent tiger drivers. That is not something to balance a tank off.
@next widget still doesn't change the fact that you can't circle it unless it's completely distracted, and you are still assuming the tiger 2 is completely isolated and doesn't kill you before you get to it
compact nymph
^ and here’s a Tiger II running double fuel, chocolate, ehanced control and with the « clutch braking » skill maxed out. Have fun getting around that and not dying to the Tiger II
nimble zodiac
Sidehugging is a thing though
coarse harness
People still defend the Tiger II lol
It has NO bad aspects
Good gun, good mobility
Against T7s it's pretty much invulnerable
In T8 people have to load gold to pen it on flat ground exept some high pen TDs
Some meds can't pen it with gold ether
Against T9s however the armor can be non existent
That's what I call broken boiz and girlz
Change my mind
round bluff
best tier 9s:
5. type 61
4. jagtiger
3. standard b
2. wt auf 4
- tiger II
frigid monolith
Just buff the upper plate so that it actually potentially works against bigger guns and nerf the lower plate back to the old value. Problem solved
jagged crescent
Nerf the lower plate. Everything else can stay
next widget
@distant river I don't totally agree. It's possible to circle an undistracted tiger II if it's open space. Overall I think it has too mush speed.
distant river
It's possible, if:
The tiger hasn't killed you before you get to it
It's in an open space
It has no teammates
It doesn't get to cover before dying
Hmm that's a lot of "if"s
fiery flame
This tiger 2 debate is reminding me of the vk 100.01p, people are putting forward the same arguments, tigers armour is bs and so that lower plate needs some love from the nerf hammer
autumn zodiac
Tiger 2 is pretty mobile, it's really only slightly slower than VK 45.02 A, it could use a mobility nerf at the very least
nocturne mauve
Tiger 2 turns very fast for some reason
compact nymph
Balance-wise it definitively needs a nerf. As a Tiger II driver it would slightly sadden me but it needs it. However, seeing how it's been performing since last September and WG's lack of reactions concerning the tank, I'm not sure it'll get nerfed.
indigo knot
Tiger2 won't get nerfed ....
With the HP buff to other heavies and it being from the one of the highest HP tier 8 heavy to lowest affected its stats in the recent charts...so I doubt it it will get any nerfs
fringe lion
T69 needs a penetration buff
coarse harness
Why ?
formal vale
I mean most tier 8 mediums need somewhat of a buff imo, but here are some of the big contenders:
T-44-100:
For heaven sake, give this tank something. Gun depression and mobility to match the standard T-44 would help just fine. Or, WG could buff its turret armor to match the T-54 mod 1's and only slightly buff the mobility.
Pershing:
Just the standard pen. That's it, nothing more. Everything else is fine but you have to switch to pramo so incredibly often.
STA-1:
Engine power and accuracy. Reinforce the idea that it shouldn't be up front by making it possible to spot positions early and then relocate to support positions.
Indien/Mutz:
Turret armor and base pen. These things arent very small and already force you to play pretty cautiously. Buffing these traits would kinda make them like M48 Pattons for their tier.
Edit:
@indigo knot You're right actually, my bad. I guess just ignore that part about the pen being bad. I do think they could use some sort of turret armor buff though.
@orchid grove Yeah I agree with that. I think the Pershing is in this state where it just needs one thing changed on it to make it all that more comfortable to play.
quasi cloud
Well since we are at it make t44 top gun the 100mm LB-1 gun standard pen to 190 so i can have less chance to go cry in a corner when i cant pen
indigo knot
Doesn't Ind Pz have already good base pen...
Tho all tier 8 meds need buff(i personally feel)
They don't have dpm advantage over tier 8 HTs, not good pen and now even HP difference it kinda more
And IS tanks kinda do most the work of Meds
orchid grove
Pershing just needs a DPM buff, and maybe a gun handling buff. It’s really just the DPM that’s a problem
cursive quarry
T23e3 needs either a speed buff or an armor buff because it’s basically a bulldog in the way it has no armor, but it also has worse speed. I like the camo, though
autumn zodiac
It's more like a comet actually, tbh T23E3 is pretty well balanced right now
formal vale
Yeah the T23E3 is actually pretty nice, especially since it just got a horse power buff
unique scaffold
Honestly how many tanks out there can do a circle of death in reverse?
jagged crescent
Drac?
lusty jacinth
Bulldog lttb drac ru251 basically any light
lone warren
angry connor
round bluff
circle of death is a dead move
most everyone has repair crew skill, 2 repair kits, and toolbox equipment
orchid grove
It won’t prevent you from avoiding damage forever, but you can still use it to put out an extra shot or two of unanswered damage
odd sandal
I just drive forwards and backwards in front of people, works against mobile players especially
odd tendon
And new tank destroyers have really quick traverse speeds such as foch and ho ri
ionic ivy
Track them. Their traverse speed is 0 when their track is gone
unique scaffold
When will stats about is6 buff and grille buff will be available???
full token
Those buffs don’t seem to be in this coming update, so it wouldn’t be known for another month or so, till they do an Open Test or stream or just release the update itself
odd tendon
a tank destroyer likely has 2 repair kits
jagged crescent
Probably 7.2
crystal spoke
I'd say 7.1 since they dont usually release the next patches exact details right after the previous patch rolls in
drowsy plaza
I’m sorry when someone said the Pz58 and Indien need a buff. That’s a player issue not a tank issue.
Honestly some of the tank performance metrics show that why balance data for 55-65% players isn’t ideal. It should be for 55-65% players WR’s in those tiers. If you are having issues making Indien work it’s not a issue with the tank.
round bluff
I don't think I've seen an Indien panzer in a public game in 2 years.
main tulip
Pershing and T-44-100 need a buff the most out of the tier 8 meds
low crypt
T-44-100 surely just a worse tech tree T44, just to only have a side skirts.
unique scaffold
no i mean nerf and buff the prem
jagged crescent
no
thick rover
@unique scaffold ??? Your username🙀
frigid monolith
Huh?
ionic ivy
Big brain
frigid monolith
Yeah, it’s very confusing
nimble zodiac
Neither of those tanks exist, these do
He probably means nerf prem and buff the tech tree
Y u edit prev message then say the same thing
unique scaffold
no i mean nerf and buff the prem
mortal granite
Buff the WZ Blaze while ur at it WG
lol.... I'm never gonna have my wish 😦
crystal spoke
At least it was buffed a while ago but unfortunately not enough
formal vale
@mortal granite the Blaze doesnt need any more buffs lol. It's already a beast
Edit/Response: Kinda. I think it's just more balanced than the OP premiums at the tier. It certainly doesn't need another buff at the moment.
mortal granite
@formal vale I know I've played the tank over 1 thousand times. however Blaze feels too limited for what its supposed to do especially compared to the other turreted td's at tier 7 that are able to perform better.
Response: what about the penetration for 122s? at this point I would even settle for a simple pen buff so that it can deal with the russian is and kvs as well as the big german cats that are at tier 8. and even more so since now there's a chinese TD at tier 7 that has better pen
unique scaffold
Buff 252u
thick rover
Buff is4
fossil copper
buff FV183 Camouflage net
drifting depot
Buff grille
unique scaffold
Buff the t 32 plz. That thing is so redundant right now. Also the t 28 is still crap.
bold dagger
T32 is fine where it is now, the consumables and HP buff make it very usable now. its not OP but not really that bad anymore
T28 is getting a buff very soon, the E3 like starting at the T25 AT will have the option to run improved engine boost and reticle calibration consumables
unique scaffold
@bold dagger how about the t 20 man. What made it unique before was that it was a medium with a high alpha but low dpm. Now the Chinese medium takes that spot. Also the Chinese medium had a better armor and similar speed
bold dagger
there’s 3 nice things about the T20. 1) somewhat high alpha, 2) lots of gun depression, and 3) very high premium shell penetration. granted, that combo is usually not enough for most people. its definitely a powercreeped tank (was it even that good to begin with?) that could use a buff
the question is, how to buff it? its mobility is already good enough, it would feel unnatural to have more. as for the armor, its supposed to be weak
the gun’s pen and alpha are already set, so the only reasonable thing I see buffing is the DPM. it also has great accuracy already
tbh tho, the entire line needs help. they should get reactive armor and improved speed boost/reticle calibration
distant river
I found the T20 to be fairly enjoyable to play actually, it's not good but it's not bad and it make for a nice challenge.
unique scaffold
If you try to play the T20 in a manner other than it is intended to be played in you'll find it to be a very unfun / uncompetitive tank.
drowsy plaza
T20 and M26 Pershing have become rather irrelevant. But the T20 could do with some mantlet armor to make it more inline with the line. I don’t have any issues in the T20, but the tier 7 HT buffs then Heavy HP buffs as well as other powerful tanks in 6/8 that it sees have made it a tough ride. The M26 Pershing needs a buff more than the T20 IMHO.
still jackal
do you think the AMX M4 45 needs a bit of an armor buff or nah
dim field
Personally I really liked it. But i also had good teammates so that influenced things
dense walrus
I thought it was crap but I also played horribly with it so you pick whose fault it was
compact nymph
Good teammates? In which update was that setting removed?
lunar ruin
Lmao
dim field
One of those silent updates perhaps
main tulip
AMX M4 45 should get a top speed buff, it's supposed to be a heavium but it can't do that when it can't even go 40 kph
odd tendon
T20 and Pershing are some of the most powercrept tanks in the game. The pramo alpha nerf reduced one of their few strong suits that is, high APCR pen. Compare the T20 with any of the T7 Russian meds and lights and the Dracula and ask how relevant and useable T20 is compared to those. Dracula is completely better to T20 almost all major stats, DPM and mobility. The only thing T20 has over Dracula is 5mm of penetration. T20 vs T-43/Rudy/Lttb is a joke as well. T20 has almost 600 less dpm than the Russians and much less mobility. In a meta where heavy tanks with high health pools dominate, 2k vs 2.6k dpm is night and day. Pershing is just a Tier 8 T20 with a gun mantlet and has barely enough DPM to kill some T8 heavies in a minute. Pershing vs Pantera is an absolute joke and a shining example of powercreep in one of the worst Tiers of the game.
main tulip
I would much rather play a T20 over a T-43 tho
ebon iris
The Italian autoloaders do need a reload balance, it's 3 second as it is to most traditional autolaoders, pulling down to 4 seconds or 5 will make the French and American autoloaders relevant.
pastel viper
Italians have autoReloaders not traditional autoloaders and they aren't the same thing. I feel like you haven't played those 3 Italian tanks and the above statement is based on your experience against/with them. The Italians aren't anything special, french and american clippers are already pretty good and very relevant. increasing the intra shell reload time will absolutely kill them.
winged barn
Lol, yes make the 62 better than the 140 in every possible way
compact nymph
You already have high dpm, excellent turret, laser accuracy and good mobility. Seriously, why on earth do you need the T-62a to be buffed? Player issue, not a tank issue @drowsy idol
drowsy idol
Yea maybe
odd tendon
The shining example of how WG does not know how to balance is the 140. vs T62A comparison. 140 was supposed to have a weaker turret but in turn you can hide it by using the extra degree of gun depression. But then weegee threw it out the window completely by giving T62A 7° of depression
dense walrus
@drowsy idol not maybe, definitely
vale sun
american mediums are in a sorry state at the moment
compact nymph
That’s definitively as badly armored as T8 mediums, suure....
nocturne mauve
Well that’s the weakness of T-62A then
winged barn
Time to play the 183 and then complain that it does not do enough damage
drowsy idol
Just sell it, wg only nerfed it
odd tendon
the only american medium from t7 to 10 that isn't useless is the m46, maybe t54e1, but all others are trash
nimble zodiac
It can still perform wonders if played correctly ._.
(FV215b 183)
dusky spire
Give the Sheridan max 5 missles a game to stop camping missle spamer
sour comet
All take 2 shots that pen with HESH boom you done more damage then 90 percent of playerbase.
vale sun
A lot of people still say that the m46 is terrible
There's no american medium which you look at and go, "That's one hell of a tank!"
mild glade
m48 and m46 are really strong
winged barn
The ez8 is really good
thick rover
m46 is fun
main tulip
Yeah but M48 is worse than the STB in pretty much every way
unique storm
T69 is superior to P44
vale sun
lol
winged barn
Ah yes, a comedian
odd tendon
M48 is not strong, it is inferior to the STB in almost every way. They both perform the same role as a ridgeline fighter yet STB performs that role leagues ahead of the M48.
M46 is still a decent tank in Tier 9 because of the dpm but it wouldn't hurt it to have a buff for its engine or maybe turret armor.
Pantera is sleeper OP.
unique storm
Idk Ive rekt tons of Pantera's in my T69
winged barn
^the words of someone that has not experienced the spaghettio 44
vale sun
Bros I killed a 252u in my AT15, does that mean AT15 is better than 252u? Bros?
unique storm
Hey yo bro
odd tendon
At15, Caenarvon, Pershing, VK45.02A, and T28 exist in the same tier as Tiger 2, Action X, Obj252U, and wz120ft
unique scaffold
Idk why y’all say tiger two is op. Everyone pens it all the time. I’m legit playing it and everyone hits the cupola so easily. Y’all just complaining cause you don’t wanna aim. I turn my turret 1 degree and it turns grey. Idk y y’all think it’s so op. It legit is not. Unless ur playing against bots, everyone knows how to pen the top of your turret. The tank 100 percent doesn’t need a nerf
unique storm
I need HEAT to pen the Tiger 2 in my T69 and HEAT is expencive
odd tendon
An easy solution to that problem is to not sit in one spot like you just got lobotomized, pretending that you have foolproof armor. As soon as you start moving back and forth, your weakspots become impossible to hit.
Don't turn your turret. Even a strong turret like T34 has weak cheeks; same principle applies. You do not have foolproof armor. You have absolutely broken armor that anybody can exploit.
Even T34 AP struggles against Tiger 2 frontal armor. How do you expect a tank like the T32 or the typical T8 med to pen frontally?
vast locust
I played with tiger 2 and it was so much fun if you keep coffin dancing. This way enemy doesn't go for coupla because they know anyway its a hard shot. Instead they go for turrent as soon as they see grey but that bounces and as moved it.
round bluff
sounds like he's complaining cause he doesn't want his turret side penned
lunar ruin
Lol, Tiger II has great armour, similar to E75 but just in tier 8.
Switch to prammo, and you go through the Tiger II like butter.😉 that’s why it’s in the game people, use it. 🤷🏻♂️
Also, my ISU works great!👌🏻
noble siren
Here we go again with the rant about Tiger ll...
nimble zodiac
Ah yes, the 286/300mm of pen against a tier 8 works, also some tanks still don't have the capability to penetrate it with their gold shells, given the Tiger II can angle up to 230mm minimum around the hull
Take poor T-54 Ltwt., or T-44 also with the 100mm D10T. They won't do much without some good RNG shots on the cupola. Many meds lack the pen, heavies struggle to fight a good Tiger II player given a risky wiggle situation. It's a great brawler, but multiple targets won't be a good sign unless they're stuck together in one spot. I'd actually support a turret armor buff, maybe a speed nerf, and a lower front plate nerf
unique scaffold
Buff credits coefficient on tier X
compact nymph
T10 isn’t made to grind credits. That’s T8. You play at T10 because of the good tanks you own in that tier and like to play wih.
forest oxide
guys who know vk 28 better or vk30??
noble siren
@compact nymph why Tier 10 isn't meant to grind credits?
compact nymph
@noble siren Ask WG, I’m not the one who set up the credits coefficients for T10 tanks ¯_(ツ)_/¯ (the Mk6 being one of the exceptions). But most T10 tanks have a low credits coefficient and it’s a fact. Accordingly, you might think it isn’t the best tier to grind credits
lunar ruin
Here we go again with the rant about Tiger ll...
@noble siren lol I would never rant about the Tiger II😂 one of my favs!
noble siren
@compact nymph I mean I see no reason not to make tier 10 more profitable
compact nymph
@noble siren I don’t see any neither, it would be nice to lose less credits at T10. But for Wargaming it would probably mean that buying premium tanks and account wouldn’t be as mandatory in order to sustain a decent amount of credits, and so on grant the company less incomes.
nimble zodiac
To be fair it is expending more high-tech resources for battle, like the tank itself, but yeah, credit up for most of them please
noble siren
this should not be a thing
full token
Why grind credits at tier 10? Go to tier 8 for that or any tier you have a decent premium. Tier 10 hasn’t been about grinding credits. I usually don’t care about such losses because I make enough from the ‘profit’ matches that it doesn’t hurt much. WG gives Premium time for free quite often, so even without playing to grind credits, I can make enough in that time for such battles where I lose credits. There’s also credit boosters that WG gives out very often in the crates, and those help too.
Yep it must be the prammo use. I try not to use consumables and prammo more than needed, which surely helps reduce my spending. There’s ways to earn more by just playing better, like avoiding taking unnecessary damage, missing fewer shots, using lesser prammo, etc
unique scaffold
Why not? The whole idea of high credit costs at tier X is to drive inexperienced players down to tiers where they are better suited. I find it ironic that you have #removethenoobs in your name while wanting to remove one of the obstacles that is designed to keep "the noobs" out of higher tier game play.
nimble zodiac
Bet he used prammo, and he lost the bet evidently
compact nymph
Seeing how good the average player at T10 is, then I guess that the inexperienced players Spartacus just referred to are unable to read and so on understand they actually lose credits. If a players doesn’t bother about reading the chat or driving away from the spawn, why would he care about losing more credits at T10?
unique scaffold
True but you can only lose credits at tier X for so long before being forced to a lower tier. Either that or they will be forced to open their wallet.
noble siren
@unique scaffold u r kinda irrelevant by saying that knowing they usually buy their way to tier 10, so I can't see what stops the bots not to play tier 10 @full token I use prammo rare cause I don't play with premium account
thick rover
Then vets will also be "forced to go to low tiers" by the same hand? What's to say they won't be affected by this drive towards low tiers (credits costs) as much
Hmm ok thanks @nimble zodiac
unique scaffold
Then they are putting money into the game. At least the current system weeds out the poor performers who aren't paying into the system. What you are proposing would add even more poor players to the tier X pool. Doesn't make any sense.
nimble zodiac
Noobs usually constantly lose bunches of creds in tier 10, their physical lack of credits prevents them from playing it due to repair costs, and that encourages them to either play lower tiers, or to spend money. And @thick rover if you mean good players by "vets" then they will perform good enough in order to prevent them losing too many credits.
compact nymph
Low credits earnings at T10 doesn’t really keep noobs away, since a large amount of them will drive their shiny new T8-10 premium with 26% winrate, earn some credits and hop into T10 again. Also, consider the fact that some players understand so little of the game they don’t use provisions and prammo. But bad players running full provisions and throwing gold ammo away will indeed lose lots of credits.
thick rover
good point for discussion yep
unique scaffold
That doesn't make any sense. It's like saying there are still a few people speeding through a residential neighborhood so let's take out the speed bumps and stop signs.
Secondly someone who is delivering a 26% wr in a tier 8 premium isn't bringing in enough credits to support tier X play.
You need some sort of consistency in your argument. You can't say get rid of "noobs" in high tier play while at the same time saying we need to remove obstacles that prevent "noobs" from playing in higher tiers. It makes zero sense.
noble siren
sigh
nimble zodiac
Oof, so it's "Buff tier X credit coefficients but keep the noobs away by starving them of credits"
unique scaffold
Personally I don't care where "noobs" choose to play. For God's sake Blitz is a free to play mobile game. Expecting players to bring the same level of dedication that some of us do is absurd. I just find it ironic that we've got folks saying make the credit earning in tier X better while also complaining about "noobs" in higher tiers. You want to have your cake and eat it to.
icy urchin
😐
meager spruce
@unique scaffold I personally don't have issues with sub average players in the region of up to 30 maybe even 40K battles. But after passing that point, they should have at least learned the basics of the game.
unique scaffold
You're right. They should have. But you can't force them to if they haven't. The current credit payout is designed to try and drive away players who can't consistently perform at tier X. I see no reason to make playing tier X any easier for the players that many of the users here complain about.
compact nymph
Noobs still go through obstacles supposed to keep them away no matter what, especially by buying their way to higher tiers. Trying to prevent them from getting up to high tiers is pointless, nothing in the game will currently block them from hitting the battle button and repeating the exact same mistakes for 60k matches. Credits aren’t even an issue considering how many of them have premiums. There are noobs at higher tiers, and more of them will come.
unique scaffold
So because some get through we should take away more obstacles? If you own a store that has a shoplifting problem do you advocate taking the cameras and door alarm out? I mean some things are still getting stolen...right?
icy urchin
Yeah..
compact nymph
@quasi cloak The frontal armor isn’t that strong, and sides are complete paper. Don’t be surprised to bounce on a higher tier heavy when driving a T6 medium.
nimble zodiac
Best part about it is that they can just shoot the central gun mantlet backed with like 190mm of armor, then nothing. Besides, it's not very hard to shoot the turret's weakspots.
compact nymph
It’s got low traverse, low top speed and bad dpm. More than enough weaknesses for the tank to be dealt with fairly easily.
noble siren
These called "obstacles" don't even work for them. The only obstacle stopping them to play tier 10 is their mother's permission to use the credit card.
coarse harness
They should just do something with the ammo prices cuz right now it does not makes sense
An E-100 AP price is roughly the same as an Obj 140 AP which does less than half dmg
unique scaffold
@noble siren when were you appointed the speaker for the "noobs"? Please share your detailed analytics of the player base that shows you what percentage of players are purchasing what. I think we would all like to see the data that leads you to your conclusions.
what I see here is a player who wants the obstacles that inhibit how he chooses to play removed. Frankly I think that's a very selfish way to approach the subject.
DM me your spreadsheets to prove this. I'd love to look them over.
dusk wind
Is in this Server a normal Chat?
civic topaz
@dusk wind #off-topic-discussion or #general-blitz-discussion
unique scaffold
I can't understand people. On tier 9 and tier 10, we got few tanks that their frontal armor are impenetrable to meds and other low pen tanks, and when people face those tanks, they try to flank, it's hard to do this on tier VIII? Also, many other tanks on tier VIII are hard to pen by specific tanks, what's the problem? U can't do this on tier VIII, but you can flank on tier X? As @unique scaffold says, instead of complaining, try to adapt against it. Many cry about Tiger II, and when IS6 receives the armor buff on next updates, people will cry about Tiger II and IS6. The Tiger II isn't a problem to me, even in low pen tanks, i never facehug it, always flanking, tiger II and others like OBJ 252U.
ionic ivy
Just focus other tanks or get to their side. Use your teammates and double team them, they can only target one of you.
lunar ruin
Or simply switch to prammo and have a good ol’ time👌🏻
But obviously if you still struggle, then flank it or side hug those flat sides!
drowsy idol
@coarse harness reload time is a thing, the obj can fit I think 2-3 shells before e100 can shoot 1. So the damage output is different and thus, producing more credits
jagged crescent
ur also going to lose credits faster depending on how much u fire
odd tendon
If a tank has impenetrable frontal armor, it's either overpowered or the only aspect of the tank that keeps it relevant. Vk72 has impenetrable frontal armor but absolutely awful sides that do not let you make use of sidescraping tactics, limiting the survivability of the tank. What does the Tiger 2 sacrifice to have impenetrable frontal armor? It receives a decently accurate gun and borderline heavium traverse, making it difficult to flank in a lighter tank.
Loading pramo shouldn't be the only solution to impenetrable armor because of the damage nerf now. You should load APCR/HEAT if the enemy is smart and is able to hide their weak spots, not because the tank is a massive steel wall.
lunar ruin
But the VK72 has a fine strip on the hull which can be penned by standard ammo, but prammo is a more reliable option, similar to the Tiger II. Regardless, load the prammo, make slightly less credits and be done with it.
ionic ivy
I never take chances on that small strip, so it's gold all the way for me. Also, I always try to hit the turret cheeks that bulge out when you look at it frontally, but it always ricochets for some reason.
odd tendon
You can only hit the strip if you're right up in the Vk72's face. Even if you have god tier aim, I doubt your dispersion will let you. Tiger 2 also let's you increase your armor even more by angling while Vk72 is asking to eat shots as soon as you turn that tank slightly.
This is diverging from my point though. Vk72 only has great frontal armor to make up for the rest of the shortcomings of the tank, awful mobility and armor profile. Tiger 2 does not sacrifice anything to receive the same impenetrable frontal armor. The tank is too well rounded to have such an OP armor scheme.
drowsy idol
Well as long as you are less than 70 degrees you can shoot vk sides bc most tanks don’t have heat
lunar ruin
True. Those side turret things are nice to shoot at
drifting depot
I'd say buff that upper plate on the tiger 2 a little more, to the point where it's hard without high pen pramo and nerf the lower plate to the point where anyone can pen it without pramo, like 90mm or so
quiet igloo
Go buff amx 50 b guys he is op
odd tendon
@drifting depot or you can just play the VK100.01P
drifting depot
cough you mean the mobile weakspot machine? Thing is plagued with them
unique scaffold
I THINK we all agree to neft the isu 152 and make the conway reload speed abit quicker buff the conway
lunar ruin
I love the VK. One of my favs in tier 8.
regal grove
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the ISU-152 in terms of being op... that’s literally he first time I’ve ever heard someone complain of it lmao
compact nymph
@unique scaffold lol the only good things on the ISU are the dpm, pen and alpha. It's got bad accuracy, armor only protects you from HE shells and the mobility is pretty mediocre.
jagged crescent
It’s a one trick pony
unique scaffold
BUt the dmg it does its too much for a teir 8 at least at teir 9 or 10 its okay ;/ SMH
obtuse sparrow
@unique scaffold are you kidding me. It has 1010 hp, basically 3 or 4 shot for every tier eight, it has horrible accuracy, it has garbage armour, its fairly slow, AND it doesnt have as much camo as an Rhm. Listen. Just because it has a big gun doesnt mean its op. Have you seen the 152mm on the kv-2 in TIER SIX? Deal with it.
compact nymph
The tank is extremely easy to take out. Pretty good as a support tank, but anything will suppress it when caught apart. Having good pen and alpha doesn’t make a tank OP, otherwise the 183 would be one of the best and most broken T10s..
lunar ruin
If we’re calling the ISU OP based on its gun/damage, then might as well throw the RHM under the bus as well.. and I know that NOBODY is going to call the good ol’ RHM overpowered. 😂
orchid grove
Well, to be fair, RHM was completely overpowered way back in the day @lunar ruin
To this day, I don't think I've ever had a tier 8 surpass my RHM stats, and that was back before I got gud too
vale sun
Tiger 2 needs that lower plate nerfed and maybe a slight buff to the upper plate so it's not pramo food. Also, the tiger turret face should stay weak. We don't need more hulldown heavies at tier 8.
odd tendon
@drifting depot people who want to drive a brick with no weakspots have bricks for brains
unique scaffold
The tiger is already weak breh. That turret cupola is so easy to hit. I hit it with my Russian heavies all the time
nocturne mauve
Sure
round bluff
Sure
lunar ruin
@orchid grove ahh didn’t know the RHM used to be OP. I never played it when it was. But I’m talking about today’s RHM. The damage and potential (when the gun actually works) can come off as OP, but that’s the only good thing it has going for it. Maybe it’s camo too. I never get spotted in the RHM haha
orchid grove
@lunar ruin Big gun + Turret will always be a pretty monstrous combo
But back in the day, before map changes removed all the broken TD spots, before the playerbase knew how to avoid the now common TD spots, before the accuracy nerf, and before the prammo damage nerf, RHM was an absolute monster. It's basically single-handedly responsible for the playerbase learning how to deal with all of the sniping spots now.
But even now, RHM is still pretty crazy, purely because of that turret+big gun combo
unique scaffold
Yeah rhm it's still pretty good but i prefer the 130 on it tho with the other I miss everything
nimble zodiac
I really like the ISU-152, amazing gun, but that's honestly it. Balanced
unique storm
My T69 really like to just clip dump that ISU and the T69 has some of the worst pen in tier
rapid mirage
Yeah. Rhm used to be an awesome tank. Then WG destroyed it. I used to play a platoon of rhms and we did consistently over 6k combined damage. Just great fun. The HEAT rounds would go through anything. But toomany players with premium tier 8 where whining about it, and it got obliterated. But tank balancing is pointless until you have a mm that actually works.
midnight fable
RHM needs a slight hp or dispersion buff.
It has 1,100 hp. No armor plus 1,100 hp means it dies very quickly if in a tight spot.
It also has horrible dispersion. What's good about the gun if it cant hit the broad side of a barn?
Wt is balanced.
Grille needs a slight buff.
Maybe slight hp buff (1,900 hp?) since it's a HE magnet for the many, many derp tier X guns.
I've got about 1,500 battles in those two tanks alone.
While you can be successful in them, they're nowhere near the ISU-152 and OBJ 263.
nimble zodiac
+Gun to block any HE shells with bad RNG
ionic ivy
Wdym, grille is the definition of being a camper effective sniper. Your sole purpose is to stay hidden while using your good gun to put in shots across the map. What it needs right now is a camo buff instead of dpm buff. Literally gets spotted after firing at like 290m.
drifting depot
.-. Just fix the wonky angles and give it better traverse already ffs
unique storm
T69 needs pen buff!
coarse harness
Not really
naive ibex
buff gun mantlet in 263: most annoying weakspot in this tank, (275mm of gun mantlet vs 350-400mm of efective armor on other frontal plates except down plate) (idk how about sides to buff them slighty)
nimble zodiac
I'd agree with a gun mantlet buff, though I think it's way too fast to have a very strong front and solid sides
compact nymph
^ if you buff the mantlet then adjust the armor on other places, otherwise the only weakspot will be the tiny lower plate. Shooting the engine deck only works when at really close range.
naive ibex
soo... 263 is like the m6a2e1 in terms of armor -really strong front but paper sides +it has really bad gun depression and aiming arc, armor pretty much balanced - tds can pen it easly but meds, lights and some heavies have problem to penetrate it - even by using gold until they will hit gun mantlet - thing that destroys 263
nimble zodiac
There's also this bar of RNG but in order to keep the sides angled at an auto-bounce, AP's normalization hits at 255mm effective, but still, it's a bar of RNG, specifically accuracy RNG. Honestly I think it would do the game good to buff the gun mantlet, it seems to have been powercreeped a bit more by heavy HP buffs.
viscid breach
^^^ I agree with this. It used to be fine the way it was, but it could do with like, a 20mm (or more) buff to the mantlet imo
thick rover
Yep manlet buff could be well deserved..? Or survivability
fiery dagger
I mean... Effective 270 mm is still a lot, just as the E100's turret. You can't go trough without prammo unless you're a TD. With prammo, everything becomes paper buffed or not. I don't think it needs a buff.
lunar ruin
The mantlet is already troll af, and you want that buffed??
thick rover
Loool
unique scaffold
Please buff the armor of SU 122-44..
tulip imp
The ability to buy boosters with credits would be great, I am sure people ran out of crew XP boosters and free XP boosters at some point
autumn zodiac
You also get so many from the daily crates at the same time that it doesn't quite mkae sense to do that
ionic ivy
I get so many boosters from the chests, I don't need to buy them using creds. Plus, I can just play 2 games instead of 1 for the same effect anyways.
unique scaffold
Why no for 122-44?
autumn zodiac
SU-122-44 has really good armor still. The only help it might need is maybe a touch more Health maybe rounded to 1000, and slightly better gun handling.
lunar ruin
Is that the premium tier 7?!
lone warren
Yes
still jackal
I have the 122 44 (got it from a free crate) I haven't played it recently but it's like a budget 120-1G with good mobility, godlike dpm and good alpha. Its armor is not that great but still it doesn't need an armor buff for me
fossil spruce
Please buff T44 penetration
unique scaffold
Buff the nerfs
drowsy idol
I think t43 should get a mobility buff so it can compensate the shit pen
unique scaffold
@drowsy idol I am not so sure it needs it, I remember it to be one of the funniest tanks I've ever used, with that troll turret and good mobility already, maybe the acceleration only should be improved. About the pen, just switch to APCR if needed
nocturne mauve
Lol Rudy is better
drifting depot
Can't pen other medium upper plates .-.
wind bough
Please buff T44 penetration
@fossil spruce lol wut?
u can pen E75 lower plate with ap while using rammer wdym?
its decent
drowsy idol
@unique scaffold I find it annoying when you can’t outmaneuver some heavies and how I can almost always trap the t43 bc the 43 can’t do anything with that 85mm gun
fossil spruce
@fossil spruce lol wut?
u can pen E75 lower plate with ap while using rammer wdym?
its decent
@wind bough wow idk whats decent about 184mm. so lets hope wg nerf other t8 mt pen to this 'decent' pen
round bluff
Badger's dpm is garbage for how slow and cumbersome it is. Its like driving a tortoise with more armor, and thats awful
nocturne mauve
People automatically assume it’s good because it’s a collector
orchid grove
Nah, people assume its good because they come up against one in battle, see a bunch of red, and think its OP
obtuse sparrow
Same case with 252u
formal vale
no, the 252U is just actually OP
Edit: To back this up, note how the 252U has a 61.46% win rate across all players while the IS-6 only has 54%. (Source: BlitzStars)
Ok, since you don't think what I provided is enough, let me expand upon this:
252U stats / IS-6 stats:
Winrate: 61.46% / 54%
Avg Dmg: 1817 / 1417
Dmg Ratio: 1.42 / 1.17
Avg Kills: 1.04 / 0.83
KDR: 2.28 / 1.47
Avg Spots: 1.25 / 1.08
Survival Rate: 50.31% / 40.1%
In all cases, the 252U clearly beats out the IS-6. Do this for all other Russian heavies and you get the same result
unique scaffold
And? You know is 6 is getting a buff correct? Let’s just hope this buff doesn’t make it very good
compact nymph
The gun will still remain mediocre so...
round bluff
I mean if they buff the armor to be impenetrable just shoot the hatch 🤡
fiery dagger
Badger's dpm is garbage for how slow and cumbersome it is. Its like driving a tortoise with more armor, and thats awful
@round bluff It literally has the third best DPM among tier X TDs. And it's also more mobile than an E3. So idk what are you talking about. And yes, it IS basically a tortoise with more everything.
bitter marsh
LOL
round bluff
@fiery dagger lol so what? The badger's in a tier where alpha>>>>>>>dpm. An e3 can trade 640 with heavies and eek out a win. Badger has to consistently stand face to face with other tanks, which its 2000 hp is not good enough for. Given how inflexible it is, the dpm is less than adequate.
stiff edge
183 would like to talk to you @round bluff
formal vale
@round bluff 460 alpha is anything but minor. Combine that with high dpm and you have yourself a very nice balance between RoF and damage per shot. It honestly sounds to me like you're just not making effective trades and blaming the tank for it
bitter marsh
@round bluff Just hide your lower plate and only TDs will be able to pen and only if they have gold; you can brawl basically any heavy if you get in their face and keep them infront of you. The playstyle fits much more with lower alpha and higher dpm I personally love the tank. You can't expect every premium tank to be insanely OP in every situation.
round bluff
That's right, I'm blaming the tank for its ineffective trades. So what if I do 460 quicker than most heavies? I need almost 2 shots to bring the hp difference down to par. Not a huge problem in a 1v1 slugfest, but factor in the god awful traverse and 30m wide HE-able rear and suddenly, 460 alpha every 8 seconds is seriously lacking.
stiff edge
its a team reliant tank
orchid grove
460 alpha just isn't high enough to justify losing the turret and all that mobility. And unlike the test version, the current badger doesn't even have outrageous DPM either.
Why play a Badger, when you can play a 113 with the same DPM, but have infinitely more mobility, a turret, and similar invincibility when hulldown?
round bluff
Don't forget ~400 more hp
formal vale
@round bluff with that logic, why even have DPM in the first place if you're never going to make use of the fact that you can shoot twice for every one shot fired at you? Besides, you ignore the fact that you have 10° of gun depression and very very respectable armor. It's not like the Tortoise where you can pen the cupola and the hull. You have neither a weak hull nor a cupola to worry about
ionic ivy
Then what makes the 263 different from the badger
noble siren
Lmao people think Badger is bad
orchid grove
lmao people think Badger is good
lone warren
20k gold for a badger is such a bad deal
formal vale
it is
unique scaffold
Badger is just meh. Not a scary tank. Balanced. Easy to kill devastating to fight frontally
noble siren
@orchid grove more like At15 and Tortoise- decent
round bluff
@formal vale badger isnt a tank that can make use of its dpm just because you want it to. Too slow, and its much easier for the enemy to disengage than it is for you to pick a good fight when driving the badger.
bitter marsh
How about Action X is it worth?
unique scaffold
How about Action X is it worth?
@bitter marsh not worth. If was costing 8500 gold would be other talk. But 15k Gold, definitively not worth.
nocturne mauve
It’s broken
formal vale
@round bluff positioning and prediction are everything. If you find yourself in a situation where you're unable to trade properly, consider the possibility that you positioned yourself wrongly. Just because a tank is slow does not mean you cant make use of its gun. It clearly makes use of ridgelines and has great DPM and accuracy. Brawling and corner fighting isn't its strong suit so dont put yourself in those sorts of situations. It all depends on how you play the tank, not how you want the tank to perform.
nimble zodiac
264mm/274mm is the effective mantlet armor if Obj. 263 doesn't angle it, even such creating the 0mm weakspot. Rip
round bluff
@formal vale too lazy, not trying to do all that. I do my part, the tank should do its.
formal vale
@round bluff you're too lazy to play a tank according to it's strengths? Got it, thanks for your input...
nimble zodiac
Obj. 252U isn't OP ;)
Very strong though, good players can make it effective, but good players can fight against it effectively, it's like the IS-7 but with two wide round cupolas, like an IS-6
round bluff
lol what do you want me to say? ik the gun is relatively good, and I know the armor can bounce stuff. what i mean is, the badger's advantages aren't enough for it to compete. you can tell me git gud all day, but if a tank is bad, its bad.
formal vale
@round bluff it's by no means bad. It's simply average. If you want an OP tank, buy a T-22 medium or something.
@nimble zodiac it has a 61% winrate over the last 90 days on BlitzStars for 3761 players. Given that on average, normal players can just play the tank and get >60% wins indicates to me that the tank is OP. When fighting it, I notice how broken the upper plates are when combined with that mobility. The gun inaccuracy means nothing when it plays up close and personal anyways
vvv That's more true than saying it's OP I think
nocturne mauve
252u isn’t even OP, it’s noob proof
stiff edge
252u is a better is7 at t8
obtuse cedar
252 is just another heavy tank for the ISU
nimble zodiac
Given ISU can drill the central gun mantlet, sure
karmic portal
Exactly. That’s why the 252u needs a buff. People keep calling me dumb but they just don’t understand.
drowsy idol
Pz 2 j needs a buff!!!1!1!
formal vale
how about we don't go buying tier 3 premium/collector tanks : )
main tulip
Why is the Badger in blitz worse than its PC counterpart in every way (worse gun arc, worse dpm relative to peers) yet in PC it's considered mediocre but in blitz it's supposed to be good
nimble zodiac
Well PC has a remotely bad sense of balance because there's so many tanks that some have to be bland or ignorable, let alone better tier Xs in comparison to Blitz
vale sun
Badger is good... situationally. It's not a very flexible tank thanks to the lack of turret and horrid traverse.
formal vale
@unique scaffold not the place. Don't post that here
crystal spoke
#clan-recruitment @unique scaffold
unique storm
Dude there are no M1 Abrams in World of Tanks, I cant trust you now
unique scaffold
why does this channel exist when WG doesn't listen to the community nor the CCs
formal vale
it's a good place to vent and discuss things
crystal spoke
And the dev's do occasionally come in here and discuss
flat bane
It's a good place for people to take their frustration out. I rather have it happen here then in game.
drifting depot
Except nobody notices it's completely unnecessary to ping and so you keep getting spammed and it's annoying and you end up blocking everyone lmao
compact nymph
Emil should get a horsepower and top speed buff
26 is just not enough, and the hp/ton ratio isn't great neither. The tank is just too slow, and going downhill at full speed will get you to a mere 30-31 kmph.
noble siren
more like ammo capacity
compact nymph
^ the gun is indeed amazing but the ammo capacity is very low
obsidian root
balance MM pls... game is unplayable... peoples with 63% WNR play with full team od 49 and less WNR, while in enemy team all players have 55% WNR and more... totaly unbalanced MM
unique scaffold
@obsidian root read the pinned messages
supple barn
jg pz e100 needs a buff because literally everything can pen it
frail silo
You need to angle your armor
karmic steeple
Hard tank to run and needs angling
jagged crescent
I wouldn't mind an extra 200 hp tho
karmic steeple
I think that would be a good idea for some of these tds that are more psuedo heavies to get hp buffs e.g. jageroo, e4
jagged crescent
watch ur language squeaker
gleaming apexBOT
aazim#7786 has been warned.
drifting depot
Also, if the e100 ever gets some extra front turret armor the jag should also get some extra casement armor .-. Just to make it a little more fair tbh
crisp elm
yeah
regal grove
e100 does not need buff. Jag could use more hp
tulip moon
anyone understand why theres FPS cap limit or not at all?
sand sky
IS-3 Defender should have Autoreloader like IS-3A
stiff edge
n o
hardy birch
If were talking tanks that desperately need bluffs what about the IS2.
round bluff
which one
full token
Didn’t they buff the armor on those somewhat recently? With the KV3 and some others
dense walrus
Yes.
hardy birch
The accuracy alone in that tank is enough to make you wanna slam your head against something as well as the fact that it is nearly impossible to make a profit on that tank without premium or some sort of boosters. I've had games were I've used maybe one premium round shot maybe 4 or 5 rounds and we won and I still lost 15thousand credits while having 2 kills and over a thousand damge. And it's not just because of the ammunition cost on the top gun. I've tried reverting back to the base gun which is a fairly good gun it's the same gun as the top gun in the t-34-1 but even then the tank still cant seem to make a profit unless I'm getting either a high caliber or a top gun which can prove difficult as the tanks plays like an IS that gave up most of its qualities for a little bit more of armor that doesn't hold up anyways because more often than not your a tier 7 tanks that has to generally face off with tier 8 tanks a lot of which you cant hit half the time due to the atrocious accuracy of this tank much less penetrate. And the one thing the tank does have which is a fairly fast reload for a bit over 400 alpha damage on average doesn't really matter because it takes about 7 seconds minimum to aim with this tank . And even when fully aimed at the side of some of the largest tanks in the game it's still almost a 50/50 wether or not you'll hit your target
Edit:I checked and the penetration on this tank is actually pretty good but in this game penetration doesn't matter if I can't aim at week spots like almost every tank has to do at this tier unless you're going head to head with a light tank which could very easily outmaneuver an IS2(tech tree version not premium version)
hardy birch
Overall the IS2 feels less like the 2nd iteration of an IS and more like a prototype. Since were talking about the IS aka the IS2s main competitor the only thing the IS2 seems to beat the IS in is that it has better concealment which doesn't hold up well considering the tier 7 light tanks are some of the best scout tanks in the game for their tier. The IS2 also has a much better turret though but that is deemed useless in about half the games you play because you end up in tier 8 matchmaking
tulip moon
ok damn gamer is typing articles here XD
dense walrus
It’s called a cohesive argument. I for one prefer it to “BUFF IS2”
stiff edge
ngl the lycan feels extremely inaccurate
worse than a kv2 id say
maybe ive played the leo1/e50m/62a too much idk
trail wolf
I would really suggest: An m48 Patton buff after all this time. The patton is just left.. No one uses it right now since other meds are simply more effective and better..
hardy birch
Lycan and IS have better gun depression(IS has 6 and the Lycan has a nice 10) aim time and dispersion values the main things that effect gun handling
nocturne mauve
IS is literally trash when downtiered, why is there such a massive difference against the tier 8 IS
sand sky
Imagine if the Caernarvon Action X had double spaced armour plates (each 40mm thick) like the T26E4 Super Pershing?
dense walrus
My mind dares not delve into such god-forsaken places
frail silo
@hardy birch you are not really supposed to make profit in tier 7+
unique scaffold
What?
lone warren
Do you know what tier 8 is?
fallow compass
What’s that?
frail silo
Do you know what tier 8 is?
@lone warren not referring to premium tanks
You can make profit with those in almost any tier?
I am talking about tech tree tanks
They don't really make that much credits
stiff edge
Theyre tech tree tanks
Also tier 8 non prems are still decent for credits
frail silo
No not really
My experience with tier 8 and tier 7 tanks are that they don't make that much credits or they lose
Stuff like jagpanther2 t49 borsig panther 2 ru are my experience so far they don't make that much credits
I don't expect tech tree tanks from 7-10 to make credits 🤷♂️ inb4 says you are just bad
hardy birch
I dosnt expect to make a lot of credits but I also don't expect to lose 15,000 credits per a good game. Theres a difference between making a profit and cutting even and the IS2 doesn't even come close to cutting even. I'm talking to cut even you have to get a high caliber or top gun unless your using premium time or boosters.
stiff edge
@frail silo bruh t49 is literally the king of credit eaters at t8
borsig sometimes requires you to spam prammo
jp is just bad at credits
panther 2 sometimes spam prammo
Ru sometimes spam prammo
Also notice how none of them are t8 heavies
Heavy spam also requires more premium to be fired, usually
yes spartacus is mega brain :d
unique scaffold
Enrich it
hardy birch
Let me put it in mathematical terms for you. Let's say I play ten games in the IS2 and that they are average games. On average when you play the IS2 you'll have enough time to get anywhere from 800 to 1500 damage and depending on the amount of kills and wether or not you win you'll get anywhere from 600 to 1000 xp on average. But almost every game excluding the use of premium rounds (which cost 4000 credits per each shell which is why I almost never use them) and provisions(which are generally needed on this tank until you get 100 percent crew) you will lose anywhere from 5,000 to 20,000 credits per game. If I play 10 average games without boosters or premium and excluding daily 2x bonuses I would lose at best 50,000 credits and at worst I would lose 200,000 but generally for every ten regular games it will be somewhere in the middle about 100,000 credits and all for ten games worth of xp which would be on average would be probably about 7000 xp. Now to get the next tank in the line which is 85k xp to research you would have to play ten average games about 120 times (or a 1200 average battle's ). If you include daily 2x bonuses probably a 100 less times which means at best you lose half a million credits at worst you lose 2 million credits and at average you lose a million credits. That's not including the xp you have to grind to get the fully upgraded parts to the tank such as the top engine which is 33k xp to unlock and that's not including the fact that you have to pay 2 million to get the next tank afterwards.
stiff edge
Play tier 8 ratings
Problem solved
You get a massive credit bonus at diamond
hardy birch
Now you could say then use premium time. I could use premium time then I would break even and even gain a little profit but that means using certificates for either an hour or 9 hours or a day of premium. Now I dont know if you have ever played the IS2 but after 10 games you feel like you've had your fill of fully aiming and still hitting maybe 60 percent of your shots because of bad the accuracy or getting into tier 8 matchups where your outmaneuvered by lights and meds or overpowered by heavys and TDs that you can barely scratch when you do hit them. 10 games is maybe 40 minutes to an hour of playing this tank which means you cant properly use premium time to play this tank without wanting to blow your brains out and this is coming from a person that used a 9 hours of premium and only played the p43 ter for those 9 hours to get the Pantera. Alternatively I could enrich the tank but if your free to play like me and the majority of the player base you cant afford to enrich the tank unless you've spent 2 months straight watching gold ads.
Edit: the IS2 is a tier 7 tank first of all and seconds of all it does ok at it's own tier in casual if you take it into rank where people are playing the best tanks you wont stand much of a chance
unique scaffold
@stiff edge do you actually get a credit bonus? I never seem to see it
stiff edge
Or you could just yknow, maybe, just maybe, grind events where there are free premium tanks being offered
@unique scaffold yes there is, idk the exact values but the higher rating you have, the more credits you get
its a percentage, and only if you win
hardy birch
I'm just trying to point out that in it's current state the IS2 is not sustainable to play long enough to get into the chinese heavy tech tree and when you do plan on losing the credits or dumping gold into enriching it or grinding on another tank to have the credits just to be able to play the IS2 you cant even enjoy it because at the end of the day it's just an IS that's worse in every regard except for it armor and camo which are deemed useless by its tier placement. I haven't even talked about how the engine seems to be hit every three or two shots that pen your tank.
winged barn
People actually enrich tanks?
karmic portal
So what he is saying is buff all the is tanks.
Ok I misread. But what you really should be saying is that all is tanks need buff. That’s a much better statement than some well thought out idea.
hardy birch
No not even close the russian IS is a well rounded heavy tank with high alpha damage and better accuracy. The Chinese IS2 is a tank that specializes in armor which is good against tier 6 and sometimes 7 but redundant at tier 8 and camo which is canceled out by great scout tanks at its tier and above like the lttb and the m41 bulldog who get all around the map in the first third of the round. And it gives up accuracy which it has the worst accuracy of any tank in the game and speed and its engine practically made of paper mache and fire starter because it seems to get damaged anytime the tank is pened and catches fire a lot because of this
Also the Chi To Spg was unbalanced until they fixed the weak point on the tanks but now if you have a bit of experience with them you can generally pen them pretty easily
drowsy idol
@winged barn well enrich something like a chi to spg which in my opinion is a bit broken for a t7
karmic portal
The IS can sidescrape really well so it’s armor is fine in my opinion, the only thing bad about the IS is the trash penetration, you can’t get through some tier 8 heavys
hardy birch
Well oddly enough as far as tier 7 heavies go the IS and the IS2 have great penetration but armor is just such a huge step up at tier 8 which would generally mean you just have to be more careful were you fire but the IS isnt very accurate and the IS2 is ridiculously inaccurate so you can't aim at weak spots which means that generally you just wont be able to do damage which is ridiculous when every shot counts on these two tanks
nocturne mauve
It’s dumb how different the tier 7 IS is to the tier 8 IS
hardy birch
It's not stupid the IS3 came over a decade after the IS But thats the thing in real life tanks made huge leaps after world war2 and most of the high tier tanks are either old designs or cold war tanks
karmic portal
Is has 175mm ap pen, that’s trash. You can’t even pen tiger 2 frontally at all with the is. The tiger 1 and p and the t29 have way more pen
dense walrus
they also don't have 400 alpha. of course they have better pen
odd tendon
Only t34 has a chance to pen tiger 2 frontally with ap. Can't use tiger 2 to balance because it is broken
drowsy idol
Ho ri type 1 can just shoot anywhere in the hull too
karmic portal
I ain’t saying it needs a buff, but the higher pen wouldn’t make the tank broke if it had. And Is can’t pen it with apcr, (it doesn’t have the handling to hit the cupola, and mg port reliably. I would say the ap pen is fine, just make the apcr pen a little bit more
nocturne mauve
Is2 can’t pen crap
nimble zodiac
Then IS can't pen crap
nocturne mauve
No tier 7 IS can pen crap
hardy birch
The IS2 actually has better penetration than the IS but because of its gun handling and and worse shell velocity it usually either misses the target or hits it at a spot you wouldn't aim for resulting in a ricochet or just the tanks armor just absorbing the shot.
shadow grove
Obj. 252 need nerf
karmic portal
@shadow grove what’s wrong with you? Have you seen the tank lately. Literally everyone here has been saying how much it needs a buff. What you said is blasphemy. You could get banned for saying such things if others hear.
jagged crescent
What the hell did I just read
drowsy idol
same
vale sun
hardy birch
Actual footage of my worst nightmares
frigid monolith
Seems legit. I guess if you want to beat PNCR, you have to do something crazy
jagged crescent
Good news is that a bunch of Sheridans have absolutely no DPM. Bad news is they can easily slip out and missile nuke again.
nimble zodiac
The only counter other than 7 sheridans is med/light spam, including rushing their entire team with your entire team
odd tendon
guys, 252 is pretty bad. i think we should buff it to make it relevant. people seem to pen my side and rear armor pretty easily which is pretty bad because my lower plate is easy pen already
karmic portal
How hard was it to find someone that bad in it. That’s tragic.
He has 1.6k battles in it and still can’t figure it out?
Oh and don’t forget that the rear needs buffing as well. I got shot 3 times in the rear and bounced only one shot from a skorpion g
ionic ivy
Definitely not as hard as you think. Anyone with access to a credit card can immediately ruin the game.
nimble zodiac
You think you're having a bad day? An Obj. 704 cliff-dived my 252U and shot the deck nearly straight on, AND IT PENETRATED IT. Unbelievable.
nocturne mauve
Bruh
formal vale
I don't even need to read that blob of text you just wrote simply because it's based on the idea that the Maus is weaker than the Mauschen (tier for tier). That is inherently false. The Maus is one of, if not the, strongest tier 10 heavies in the game. Check yourself@flint wasp
unique scaffold
He’s a troll just ignore him he’s trying to be funny and he fails at it
formal vale
@flint wasp if your argument is based on a false premise, I don't need to read it
unique scaffold
Ignore him he wants attention dont give him it
hardy birch
Just to make sure the dev's didn't miss it because I noticed more of you are on right now I brought up some balancing issues earlier today about the IS2
drifting depot
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/603078087155908648/720476467959693323/RPReplay_Final1591844654.mov
@vale sun broo ma man ooga Jodie there too lmao
frail silo
@frail silo bruh t49 is literally the king of credit eaters at t8
borsig sometimes requires you to spam prammo
jp is just bad at credits
panther 2 sometimes spam prammo
Ru sometimes spam prammo
Also notice how none of them are t8 heavies
Heavy spam also requires more premium to be fired, usually
yes spartacus is mega brain :d
@stiff edge ah well my bad then xd
odd tendon
They really need to nerf maus lower plate
mellow kayak
hi im new
drifting depot
Nerf maus lower plate, hah yeah good one
hardy birch
People be talking about these popular tanks meanwhile al I want is my IS2 to at least be able to be on the same level as the IS
karmic portal
Yeah it should be buffed. The tank is irrelevant. And it’s gun is so ugly
orchid grove
@flint wasp I’m genuinely not sure if you’re trolling. I think you are, but this is the Internet, so it’s hard to tell
drifting depot
Fix grille's wonky angles alreadyyy
trail wolf
Give da grille a thicc butt
mellow kayak
and thicc armour lol
nimble zodiac
Imagine arguing that it’s a super heavy but arguing that meds shouldn’t be able to circle it (Maus)
compact nymph
^ If you want every single heavy tank in the game to be uncirclable my meds then I fear it will remain a dream. Let me give you a tip: this is a 7vs7 game, which means you have 6 other teammates with you. If you stay with them instead of going alone, they can cover your sides and rear, rendering you less vulnerable to being circled by medium tanks.
odd pendant
hi
trail wolf
Just speed boost ur maus and it rotates almost fast enough
drifting depot
Don't even talk about teams, this is no 7v7 bs... it usually tends to be 1-3 v 6-7
noble siren
@drifting depot shhhh you are not allow to say that here
red hawk
What about a buff for at 15
regal grove
At15 is decent
sweet prism
Why not buff the top speed of AT lines from 20 to 25. They have decent power to weight ratio and traverse, but top speed ugh.
olive hawk
E4 🍉
orchid grove
@compact nymph Well, the FV215b heavy is pretty dam near uncircleable, although the guy you were originally responding to admitted to being a troll
compact nymph
The FV215b is indeed very mobile for a heavy, but nowhere near being as armored as the Maus, which kind of balances the fact it is so fast. But yeah, to be expecting such an amazingly protected tank to also be uncirclable, you must either be a troll or one of the players that understand very little of the game.
drowsy idol
I need a buff
lone warren
Only you can give yourself a buff
obsidian root
@unique scaffold lol... I´m 15 y.o. and plaing Wot for 8 years... i know about wot anything and i know MM in wotb is random... once filter here is platoons and tiers and little bit tanks... but about players it is totaly random...
nimble zodiac
I mean psychology amirite?
jagged crescent
That’s kinda sad
wind bough
?@nimble zodiac
nimble zodiac
random players, their mindsets, skills, etc.
jagged crescent
You don’t need the Maus to get buffed when it’s superior to the Tier 9 in almost every way. Learn to angle. Learn to aim. And throw away the pacifier while you’re at it. I just received 5 strokes from trying to read all of that.
wet hornet
Thats allota words to say youre bad
ionic ivy
Link your blitzstars and we can talk about your "rank 1 maus player in the game".
jagged crescent
wet hornet
Im not sure if he is serious or not but im havin a good laugh, its like a weird copypasta
wet hornet
._.)👌
lone warren
@wet hornet He is not serious
nocturne mauve
Bruh that blitzstars sentence 😂
regal grove
of course his name is player_###
send me ur maus stats @flint wasp
im just saying this game is rated T for teen and up so i do recommend that you follow that 😉 @flint wasp
"37"
tell me when u can pen that without using a TD or premium ammo
Also before I somehow say things that will get me banned I do recommend making yourself a little more humble, a 37 year old like yourself does know some level of maturity right
unique scaffold
Good god how long are you gonna keep this up? @flint wasp do you need that much attention ignore this guy already he’s a troll he’s getting you riled up stop talking to him all he wants is attention
jagged crescent
Every moment we legitimately respond, we take another step under his satire
unique scaffold
you can tell hes trolling
regal grove
honestly i really can't i do think he's pretty serious and this is the 30-40% player mentality
thick wharf
It’s alright @flint wasp it’ll be ok if u need any help talk to me and not these guys that are here 👍
karmic portal
@regal grove he is definitely being serious. I think someone posted that he is a 39%er if you check him on blitz stars I think.
frigid monolith
When has a petition ever done anything in any situation ever?
winged barn
Nah, he's just a reroll that instantly insults the stats of others