i need a buff on the fv4204
#tank-balance-discussion
cyan schooner
jagged kettle
I know wg buffed t28 in update 5.9 but it’s just a little traverse speed! Wg need to buff t28. I have been waiting t28 to get buffed so I will buy and go for t95 but im still waiting. Also e50 known as worst stock , panther2 knows as worst tank , why just don’t wg give panther 2 88mml/100 gun( way longer reload than the top 88 ) . High pen low dpm no armor medium . It wouldn’t be worst because pen is greAt, people will not suffer stock e50’s pen. Also it would make sense because panther1 have 75mm l/100 progress up to panther2 and it will have 8.8L/100 gun make more sense. Even panther1 have great pen and avrg alpha for tier7. One whole tier but only 3mm more penetration? No point playing panther2 when u pen everything in panther1 and better armor! 198mm (panther1)pen is above avrg tier7 heavy tank penetration , 203(panther2) pen is below avrg tier8 heavy tank penetration! Just give panther2 8.8L/100 it will keep one special thing panther1 have high penetration. It will make panther2 more comfortable just like panther1
Also I went in this game to grind tiger1,2. Hehe many people came to this game for german tanks ,I bet. Also e50’s e50 aufs a turret is f ing identical to panther2’s turret . If it can fit 8.8 L/100 gun then just give it to panther2 . Also panther1’s 7.5l/100 looks amazing because it’s so long ! Give panther 2 8.8L/100 gun then they look similar . Also if that turn panther turret(stock ) it can fit that 7.5 mm L/100 . But then u upgrade the turret but no 8.8 L/100.. it’s one of my disappointment of panther2 . And u guys change mate and balance stuff . Nerf op tanks and buff other weaker tank and make it part of META. But panther2 never been a good tank , never been loved by community
dense talon
Where can one see the buffs and nerfs? Everyone is talking about them lol.
full token
#devs-answers @dense talon
west hedge
Buff 121b
rose veldt
Nerf smasher or nerf gravedigger
jagged kettle
Continue of the panther 2 discussion again 👆. Take a look at Sherman fire fly ! Bad armor profile tall sluggish just like panther2 . But it has HIGH penetration and avrg dmg for tier6 .
turbid smelt
I like these upcoming changes
Is Tiger I going to remain in this state or are there going to be any mobility nerfs or is there not enough data for it?
I haven't played it after buffs only encountered it several times.
distant river
@fiery turtle I think someone missed iraiks messages but hey
Of course they didn't call then sealclubbers but they described them pretty much perfectly
A lot has changed because of 5.5, the sealclubbers are either out of the game or kicking and screaming every time someone mentions 5.5 saying how awful it was. New players are going up the tiers as fast as they used to, just now they learn more because they don't have to worry about getting massacred by a "pro" every low tier game they start.
turbid smelt
opinions on ATGMs please
@hollow warren you consider it fair or unfair, how would you rate it in terms of ease or skill required?
hollow warren
basically how you are supposed to play it rn
plush trellis
@distant river i agree. I had a lot of friends of mine and even my dad having to face DW2 toons who were destroying low tiers . As well as many other tanks. I'm glad 5.5 happen. It needed to happen. Now new people have a chance.
turbid smelt
@plush trellis I agree
silver frost
VK30.02D needs a buff... there's no reason to use it over the Panther when the Panther has the exact same and more gun choices, an actually usable armor profile and mobility advantage.. It's nice that Panther II is being considered for buff but also consider slightly nerfing the Panther and/or buffing the VK30.02D which is outclassed by nearly every other medium at its tier, not to mention tanks like the Jpanther and Tiger I which have decent mobility firepower AND armor whereas the VK does not have anything up its sleeve in the slightest to use... using the lower gun of the Tiger I means that it severely struggles to penetrate anything; recommend to increase pen to 150~160 and give it 10 degress of depression considering it can't use its armor... god knows how miserable the stock grind on it is having to use an almost Tier 5 gun, in fact I'd recommend adjusting both the Tier 6 AND 7 and give both of these tanks these traits...
atomic hound
@turbid smelt @plush trellis
Nerfing of low tier tanks and removing derp guns I can get behind, but there was absolutely no need to (what is quite clearly by now) permanently remove most of the low tier tanks (since whilst at the time wg said there would be ways to get these tanks, this hasn't happened).
Everyone that had a dw2 still has one, or can still have one for 250 gold (5 days of ads even for f2p sealclubbers)
Killing the variety, removing extra grinding, and removing key tanks to help train players in the skills they'd need later in the lines were the only consequences of their removal.
turbid smelt
@atomic hound I am pretty sure some lower tier collector tanks were sold in shop for real money and wg gave few out on birthdays
I can agree with killing variety part, as every tank below tier 5 feels exactly the same and boring
@jagged crescent get nae naed
jagged crescent
Oh wth, I literally just sold my Jagdtiger and now y’all make me want to buy it back
elfin crane
Ya it gets a buff
primal mountain
It is time to play now tier IX as much as you can, since it will be at least a month unplayable after 6.9 comes out (time to grind credits at tier VIII if tier X heavies are not one's cup of tea). Tier X heavies are already winning more than any other vehicle class and will be even more dominant after 6.9
full token
@turbid smelt They never sold any of the removed tech tree tanks
lean plaza
Bruh this heavy hp buff it’s dumb. Are you fr? Your gonna give 50b more hp. You know how hard it is for tier 9 meds to kill these powerful tier 10 heavies! This is ridiculous. I don’t think this is the best way to change the meta into a fast heavium meta. Bruh is 7 sides are so troll already when I play my 62a. How tf am I suppose to kill it now?
primal mountain
I guess this will trickle down to tiers, but it seems the already Heavy-dominated meta will stay. American ultra-mobile-high-alpha LTs were a refreshing change to the meta. But it seems that will not last long anymore 😢
turbid smelt
@lean plaza 300 more hp... 30mm sides super weak turrent (he able weakspots)
50b is so easy to penetrate that if you sneeze at it, that would do over 400 damage
latent snow
@lean plaza it should be a challange for tier 9 medium tanks to take down a tier 10 heavy lol
full token
I’d assume that since some tanks are definitely quite better than the others in the crates, it’d be unlikely that they all have the same chance to drop.
ebon compass
Id much rather the 13-57 get an intra-clip reload buff instead of accuracy, it should be .67 like the gravedigger.
unique scaffold
Plisss came back the Old time Luchus
jade cargoBOT
Alpha BR#1942 has been warned.
desert socket
I think VK 30.02 M needs a armour buff. The Pz V/IV have the same chassis, but 85mm of front armour on the Hull, when VK 30.02 M is a huge medium tank with no armour at tier 6. I can block more shoots with my M4A3E8 Sherman than my VK 30.02 M
unique scaffold
@desert socket agreed.
But the vk 30.01 H also needs an amor buff
karmic steeple
Why are we balancing tanks that are barely played and are non researchable?
unique scaffold
omg this guy is crazy....
dense talon
Isnt there anything we can do against the heavy hp buff.... all the suggestions seem terribly useless even with proper backup arguments.
noble siren
I'd rather see Tiger ll being on top performers over Is3 Defender who was on top performers for a very long time but haven't been changed a single time. As I play Caernarvon now with its top gun it seems that I can pen Tiger ll's ufp with ease even with gun rammer. The only OP thing seems to be the lower plate but why would you try shooting something smaller and harder to pen when you have bigger and weaker weak spot🤔🤔🤔. But that's what this playerbase is nowdays, 300iq players everywhere...
bronze vector
Has anyone ever talked about why the KpfPz70 still does not have its missiles like the Sheridan? It literally has an improved version of the Sheridan gun with better ammo and pen, it also originally had a 1100 Kw engine (1450hp) literally being in the name yet we get a miserable 800 hp in game, this tank definitely needs a buff!
winged barn
@plush trellis if they never learn what a good player can do until they reach high tiers, they will be useless in higher tiers. The low tier purge killed any fun in low tier tanks, and made them all basically clones of each other. This does not prepare anyone for tier 6+
@bronze vector how about instead of adding missiles to the kpz, we remove them from the sheridan. And I fail to see what is wrong with the kpz.
dense yoke
I do not want atgms to be removed from sheridan. Atleast everytime i play against atgms my team often doing their best to keep their guard up and dodging missles.
crystal spoke
@desert socket the v/iv has a regular panther hull the vk 30.02 was designed to compete to become the panzer v there different but similar
plush trellis
Neg, I don't think having someone who has 5k+ on a tier 3 is healthy to have and destroy someone who probably has less than 1k battles in total. You don't learn as much. I still think it was the right step to eliminate one issue. Was it the best? Maybe or maybe not. I think if wg really wants to help new players, they should do some training videos and such for them when they start the game. @winged barn
winged barn
We got one of our first help videos for the bots in tier 7-10 recently. Buy is see no difference from getting clubbed in tier 1-5 vs getting clubbed in tier 6-10
jagged crescent
I'm looking forward to the Panther II buff
drifting heath
nerf the load on action x
jagged crescent
it has the dpm of a tiger I, a tier 7
scenic hound
@jagged crescent what?
winged barn
@jagged crescent the tiger 1 gun isnt weak
late spindle
Funny how every time wg drops a update people will get mad like cmon let the update happen let's the buffs and nerfs stay (anyway u can't do anything cuz wg won't be listening to yall just the stats they get) after maybe a week or two after the update talk or complain about it. Like rn some aren't happy with the heavy buffs next update. Just wait lol heck yall might get a chance at more damage per battle now.
remote sluice
T49 needs more pen?
turbid smelt
More T92E1
reef field
@remote sluice it also needs its credit coefficient fixed
flat bane
Speaking of credit coefficient, I feel T10 tanks should get atleast a 5-10% boost IMO.
late spindle
Tier 10 ain't for making creds bro soo the cred buff ain't needed. U make creds at tier 8 and below maybe at times at tier 9 tier 10 however ain't for making creds.
flat bane
The heck I never said it was made for making credits. But I've noticed you lose 10-20k each game in some tanks even in good battles.
mellow cape
wargaming doesnt want you to keep playing tier 10 once you get tier 10 tanks, they want you to spend money on premiums so it isnt happening @flat bane
flat bane
@mellow cape aww man, not even a small buff? So you can make a solid 10-20k each game if you do good and win? Awful players at T10 would be losing a lot of credits, so they won't be able to play it as much. While other players that are doing well can keep on playing.
austere bone
Your both right but wg will never do tht they want you to buy credits
full token
Don’t even need to pay real money for anything. You get premiums free from events or the weekly containers. You could grind from those and then play tier 10 until you need more
primal mountain
I am guessing Tiger II will be nerfed in 6.10 or the next release. It was buffed some time ago and became rather popular. In 6.9 WG will sell gold camo to Tiger II fans, so it can be nerfed after that. Just guessing....
turbid smelt
@primal mountain why would they nerf it?
reef lynx
T-34-1 is kinda op now it is way too small
flat bane
Oh
primal mountain
@turbid smelt To avoid power-creep. Tiger II is clearly OP and I was really wondering how come the overcooked it through to roof. Maybe to prepare bigger market for the Gold Camo? WG is driven by quick-money schemes in any case. Tiger II is the strongest tank on tier VIII atm and maybe the strongest tank tier-for-tier in entire game after Kenny.
dense talon
@reef lynx now thats a tank i have never heard someone calling op lol. How does being small make a tank op? :)
dense yoke
Its not op, but its stronk tho. I have seen alot of people say that t-34-1 is the best tier 7 tech tank. if you have prammo going through tiger 2 frontal armor is easy.
turbid smelt
@primal mountain it is pretty easy to take them out, it is not broken strong
compact nymph
@reef lynx T-34-1 is fine imo. Not OP. It has a small profile with good turret and high alpha for a medium tank, but the hull and average mobility compensate
dense talon
Not to forget about the long reload it has
primal mountain
Well, Tiger II is more broken than any tank in the game. Of course it can be taken out, but still it is clearly OP. Much more than the missiles people we crying about. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/502017295107883008/689796224857276435/6.8_-_tier_8.png
formal vale
Gotta love how people will still defend the Tiger II with things like "it's still penetrable" and "it was this strong against Shermans in WWII".
1.) It's barely penetrable. You're forced to use premium on most tanks or hit an extremely small cupola. Even the E75 has a worse lower plate and cupola.
2.) Did I mention it has the most accurate heavy tank gun in the game (regarding dispersion)? It also has decent DPM and great penetration.
3.) Yes, we definitely should have the Tiger II be doing as well as it did in WWII against Shermans but with equal tier tanks, ie tanks that are supposed to rival the Tiger II, not get rofl-stomped by it /s.
@dense talon true. Gotta get some cash from the Tiger II lovers out there.
dense talon
I thought wg admitted to overcooking the tiger slightly too much, forgot where i saw it. A nerf is definitely coming lads, prolly 6.10. Thing is they want to sell their legendary camo as much as possible first.
@formal vale exactly.
hollow warren
for tiger II, just slightly nerf the lower plate and buff the upper plate ( so you can't brute force with gold ammo but will instead have weakspot to shoot if they are not using the armor correctly )
KpfPz 70 is in need for a buff, has no dpm, no depression, slow turret traverse, no hull armor, decent speed but not enough to make a difference ( similar to IS-8), bad pen.
either make it more mobile, make it a ridgeline fighter or give it better armor and dpm
turbid smelt
@formal vale why does every statement from you start like "gotta love how people are defending
.."
I can still easily destroy Tiger 2, that is why I said, "they are easy to take out".
it is at top of chart because it is very strong and also (as always) players spent their time complaining instead of learning about its weaknesses
tier for tier I think Tiger I is more over cooked @formal vale
formal vale
@turbid smelt it's a way I indicate sarcasm.
I can also outplay a Tiger II, but I generally can't "just aim" (as a lot of people like to say) and pen the tank. The vast majority of heavy tanks (ie the VK100.01P, Obj. 252U, AT-15, etc) have prominent weak spots that they have to hide. The Tiger II simply doesn't. Such is why it's at the top of the chart.
harsh ravine
These people who defend the Tiger 2 use the same argument of "I can easily outplay it or destory it". Just because you can doesn't make it any less true that that tank is OP. This reminds me of how some people were defending the Charioteer back when it was OP. It's ridiculous
desert socket
Tiger II right now is less op than the old Charioteer, and 1 weak spot on Tiger II is the track like the Maus
hollow warren
interestingly despite the machine gun port being a weakspot no one is shooting it, most ppl only shoots the cupola. Well also the cupola is actually bigger than you think, you can bounce the roof into the cupola, effectively enlarging the weakspot size.
unique scaffold
i agree that the Tiger 2 is overcooked, though not as OP as other t8 tanks are, the only nerf i'd like to see on it is a mobility nerf so it can be outplayed easier, let it be known as a slow heavy tank that has lots of armour, nerf its traverse time mainly.
turbid smelt
anything that performs slightly better than norm while still being in realms of easily "taken out"
Random Wot Blitz players: I reckon that is broken op, even though I don't understand meaning of that but I reckon it is stupid broken op
I have IS 3D and I have no idea why that tank is performing so well, it has horrible gun, workable armour and mobility
formal vale
@hollow warren I've tested that weak spot in training rooms and you need some very good aim and a lot of luck to hit it. You also have to be at the right angle, otherwise it will just ricochet.
@turbid smelt I mean yeah, since they buffed the armor on the Tiger I, it's been extremely broken (as if it wasn't already semi-OP). The Tiger II is at tier 8 though, which is arguable one of the most important tiers in the game (ie WG's moneymaker). I'm also not complaining without reason. The Tiger II literally has no frontal weak spots besides the aforementioned cupola (which is extremely small, mind you) and the machine gun port (see above for details). The lower plate is pretty much always red and the upper plate requires minor angling to make it near impenetrable.
I'd also like to point out that it's not "slightly better than norm". It's significantly better than all other tier 8 heavies. Do you know how long the IS-3 Defender held the top position? Since before the Charioteer came into the game and since it got nerfed. Now the Tiger holds that spot.
desert socket
Btw, u can said everything you want about Tiger II, WG not gonna nerf it, (and they gonna buff tier 9 JagdTiger Armour too), and im gonna joy the legendary cammo
harsh ravine
It's because it is stupid broken OP. Having a tank that is overcooked, and letting it dominate it's peers for months on the charts helps the fact it's stupid broken. Let's be honest, besides tier 8 TDs, T34 and occasionally the Löwe, is there really anything that can penetrate frontally of the Tiger 2 from tier 8 or below without having to aim at small weakspots such as the cupola or the machine gun port?
The cupola of the Tiger 2 is smaller than the roof of the Super Pershing. How many times are you gonna hit the cupola of the Tiger compared to the roof of the Super Pershing using the IS-3's gun?
hollow warren
@hollow warren I've tested that weak spot in training rooms and you need some very good aim and a lot of luck to hit it. You also have to be at the right angle, otherwise it will just ricochet.
not arguing whether it needs a buff or nerf, but the cupola is relatively easy to hit imo, action X on the other hand is super hard to hit. I rate Tiger II's cupola on the same level as super pershing's
turbid smelt
Tiger 2 using its max gun depression
40mm armour plates can be over matched by 120mm and above guns
I should not be telling this, it barely takes 5 minutes to learn about armour profile of tank
This doesn't even fit in category of stupid broken op, I can rate it very strong at best.
@harsh ravine I didn't said it is hull down, I am showing the best frontal armour at which it can fire back
I do same in my T 34 3, it is not hard to deal from front, you are medium any way so you will flank it or try to out maneuver it.
Action X has way better frontal armour, that should be discussed instead of this.
@harsh ravine any competent heavy drivers will find way to hide lower plate while being able to fire back, this armour profile can be achieved by pretty much any terrain
desert socket
@harsh ravine not at all, but the cupola is easy to hit, like super pershing, and i delete Tigers II using tanks like T-34-3 just using AP. why? Because Tiger II is just strong armoured on the front, but the sides and rear are weak. @harsh ravine i face competent Tigers II too
harsh ravine
🤦♂️
How many times are you going to hit the underside of the Tiger 2, and you do realize in a hulldown situation you’re suppose to hide most of your hull right? Try to hit that cupola or machine gun port using any other tier 8 tank, not upclose, but a moderate distance. Then why mention max gun depression? Most of time when you’re using max gun depression, you’re going to be in a hulldown position. Just because the Action X has better frontal armor, if you exclude it’s lower front plate, doesn’t make it any less that the Tiger 2 is over cooked. The Action X has to expose more of it’s self because it has lower alpha compared to most of it’s counterparts at tier 8
You destroy Tiger 2s using your T-34-3 using AP? Fight against a competent Tiger 2 Driver and see how you will fair.
desert socket
Everything i see right now is people saying Tiger II is OP because they can't pen him using guns with 200mm or less pen, when there's so many ways of kill a Tiger II: flank him, focus him, hit the cupola (the hit box is like 2 times bigger than how it looks), or just don't face a well positionated Tiger II. Do he leaves the good positions. There's sooooo many tanks more OP than Tiger II right now
turbid smelt
Exactly
Action X has 4 weak spots at front while Tiger 2 has 6
Action X has same top front armour as Tiger, lower plate is the only thing not making this a ridiculous super heavy
You are more likely to penetrate Tiger 2s in hulldown position than Action X
Wz 120 1 FT doesn't even have as many weak spots as tiger
you will not be able circle that unlike the tiger even in Dracula, only way to deal with it is either by dealing it from front with its gun eating you alive or find it looking somewhere else.
Wz has ridiculous mobility unlike the tiger
harsh ravine
🤦♂️
You just proved my point of how people will defend OP tanks by using this type of argument “I can destroy or just flank them”.
This argument is flawed because you’re saying I don’t care if that tank is over cooked or broken if there’s another way to outplay it. Just because it’s possible to outplay an OP tank, like for example, being able to get behind a WZ 120 G FT does not make it any less irrelevant that that tank is OP. I’m bringing an example. Of course the WZ 120 G FT is more OP than the Tiger, but it does not make it any less worthy that the Tiger 2 is over cooked
@desert socket How is that answering myself? They’re not going to nerf a high tier broken premium tank, despite the fact that their EULA allows them to, because they’re gonna keep milking the WZ 120 G FT. Even then, despite this being a minor nerf, @ Ribblestrip has stated that the only possible nerf the Tiger 2 is getting is a mobility nerf
remote sluice
Hull down heavies? Grab a friking T49 and slap a HE shell at the very top of their turret (u might need “refined gun” equipment, gud patience and gud RNG)
turbid smelt
Tiger 2 is not even worthy to be called op infront of Wz 120 1 FT
Tiger 2 is very strong not op 🤦♂️
@atomic hound Wz is exactly what it was before, players just learnt ways to deal with it, the same they will learn to deal with Tiger which is nothing in comparison to wz
@atomic hound Tiger 2's frontal armour buff is not going to dethrone broken yolo tank in anyway
Tiger 2 has 6 weakspots
I posted above
hue hue hue tickle tickle
atomic hound
You don't know what you're talking about mate... Wz is nowhere near as strong as it used to be. Most overpowered t8s now in the hands of competent players are the action X, defender mk1, and the tiger 2.
@desert socket because it's a premium...
No, they don't nerf them.
No, it may be the same tank but the competition has got stronger with more and more overcooked tanks, and big buffs to others like the tiger 2. @turbid smelt
@desert socket ok dude you find me some examples of that and come back to me lmao
@noble siren how about all of those tanks have frontal weakspots that can be penned by same tier guns of just about any tank in the tier.
@turbid smelt don't make me laugh
desert socket
@harsh ravine you answer yourself: if WZ 120 is more OP than Tiger II and they not nerf the WZ 120, why they gonna nerf the Tiger II?
@atomic hound they nerf premium tanks too. Yes they nerf premium tanks too
noble siren
Bruh Tiger ll is just strong not OP as Wz120 des and Obj252. We had Is3 def on top of the charts from maybe when it was released but nobody complained about it. They didn't touch Wz120, Is3 def or Obj252 so why should they touch Tiger ll. I'd rather see one German vehicle being on top than some Russian premium vehicle...
atomic hound
@turbid smelt your 'weakspots' aren't generally very weak, are they. My point remains exactly unchanged. There are precisely 2 true weakspots on the tiger 2, and the one on the hull is functionally impossible to hit unless you're at point blank range. So there is 1 weakspot; the hatch. Sure, if you load gold you can pen the turret front (which is still troll) or the cheeks if they're not autobounce, and maybe the upper hull if they're not angling, but this 'idot-proof' armour is all this tank needs to stomp the general playerbase with little effort.
The CDC was an arbitrary tank I used to show above average medium tank pen, and how the tiger 2 is practically invulnerable with zero effort.
And also, no, you can't easily circle it, it has great mobility, CDC is too big to sidehug it.
@desert socket yes, thanks for proving my point entirely. In all of the other tanks you need to put effort in to get bounces, in the tiger you don't.
@turbid smelt you're fairly amusingly making the assumption you're against an awful player, all of your strategies to beat the thing are hilariously easy to counter
Nice well thought out argument you got there.
turbid smelt
@atomic hound in cdc you can easily flank it, circle or side hug it
@karmic steeple then you move in position you can hit something and stop pretending to be a td in your medium
it is not ridiculous, it is very strong though
@atomic hound of course they are hilarious just like tiger 2 being broken op
desert socket
@atomic hound you said weakspots, but what if WZ 120 use her gun depression and cover the glassis, Obj 252 cover the glassis and IS-3 defender use hull down? You gonna pen them more easy than Tiger II? The Tiger II cupola is very easy to hit
@karmic steeple sooo many options, and guns with 235mm of pen and higher, can pen the entire Tiger II turret front
karmic steeple
And what if the tiger side scrapes so you can’t see the cupola?
I’m making a point as to why the comment above me has flaws
@turbid smelt that wasn’t the point of the post showing all the armor profiles it was to show how ridiculous the frontal armor of the tiger 2 is. Ofc u can go around it
noble siren
WHAT IF
desert socket
You know how all this fight about "Tiger II is overcooked", "nerf Tiger II" ends? Saying wargaming not gonna nerf Tiger II, because after all, there's soooooo many forms of kill a Tiger II, doing the tank is not OP, Is just stronk, but not a Overpowered OP Tank. There's much more op tanks in the game than Tiger II right now.
harsh ravine
Not gonna nerf Tiger 2 is false
atomic hound
It just needs some form of weakspots that people can pen on the hull with standard ammo. Even the vk100, which is a superheavy, has a very weak lower plate. Every single other tank has them, or at least has serious drawbacks if they don't (such as the t28...)
unique scaffold
I think the Tiger 2 nerf will target its mobility, something like Lowe is now
Just nerf tig 2 traverse to 22 or 24
dense yoke
If y'all really want to nerf the tiger2, why not buff the other tier 8 tech tanks. It would be an indirect buff, so why not?? 🤷♀️ I see this as a win, win. Buffing weak tech tanks and indirectly nerfing the tiger2.
atomic hound
Because no fair weakspot is still no fair weakspot, unless you're gonna hugely buff the pen of everything which is a terrible idea. @dense yoke
dense yoke
If people want tiger2 to be nerfed and knowing devs aint gonna nerf the armor of the tank. its best to buff other tanks, who are meh. it would be undirectly nerf. Idk buff anything that can that match the x tank.
hearty steeple
That is basically powercreep and that is just as unhealthy for the game as a few op tanks
dense yoke
then y'all should forget about tiger2 armor nerf.
unique scaffold
Leave the armor alone and nerf the mobility / traverse
If we want buff other tier 8 HT, remember the tier 7 HT, just nerf tig 2 traverse to 22
compact nymph
The Tiger II has 32,5 degrees of traverse without equipment and provisions
Nerfing it to 22 is quite a huge nerf, considering a Maus without equipment or provisions has 19 degrees of traverse
A nerf to around 28-29 would be fine.
crystal spoke
The tiger 2 is definitely over cooked but I wouldn't say its op
unique scaffold
From my opinion, nerfing tig 2 traverse is onoly option, buffing other hevs in tier 8 will kill balance beetwen 7 tier HT and 8 tier HT. What if we Nerf traverse to 22? Players in tig 2 must play in mid range, in short range ennemies will shoot to tig 2 track or they just flank it.
noble siren
More likely bad and not properly buffed
unique scaffold
@compact nymph why not when the frontal armour is more effective tier for tier ;))
noble siren
How about swipe the values of the Lfp and Ufp?
full token
I think it’s the same values, just the lower plate has a better angle and so is stronger
unique scaffold
Nah just let it be the very armoured tank it was always supposed to be 😉 Just make it slower so outplaying it is easier, although i still find it pretty easy at the moment.
compact nymph
I’d suggest to leave it as it is for now.If people like to rant about heavies being too strong, just wait for 6.9 and see if the Tiger II is still absolutely broken. Maus is about to get 3k hit points while keeping it’s armor as it is. Reminder that tank destroyers and medium tanks don’t go above 1900 hit points. Players will always find something to cry about anyways. If it’s not the Tiger II, it will be something else
civic scaffold
um... is T69 kinda underpowered?
i mean, the AP pen is so bad, i sometimes struggle penning some tier 7 tanks
turbid smelt
@civic scaffold it is mediocre
wg buffed its pen while ago xD
T54E1 is better though
civic scaffold
i see
the thing is, i got the lowest winrate in T69 out of all the tanks i have "actually" played before.
maybe it's just my bad skill 🙂
unique scaffold
I like these buffs
jaunty solstice
Hope see the nerf in T92E1 soon
acoustic shard
Buff the Vindicators prem from 225 to 250 and He pen from 80 to 88. and gun depression from 2 to 4.
distant river
For the few underperforming prems that are fairly well balanced (things like panther 8.8, panther/M10, T-44-100, FCM, panzer 58 etc) why don't WG buff the credit coefficient to get people to play then? It makes them worth a lot more to people but it doesn't change the actual balance of the game at all?
karmic steeple
Fcm is a tier above the rest of those bad tanks :/
full token
No it’s tier 8. Rather, the panther m10 is a tier lower than the rest
crystal spoke
Even if it was that's not his point
karmic steeple
I was just saying. I’m very protective of the fcm .-.
crystal spoke
Also most of them are the same tier
formal vale
@turbid smelt I just want to correct something you said about the Tiger II being overmatched in some areas that are 40mm thick by 120mm caliber guns.
1.) The overmatch mechanic only applies to shell types with normalization (meaning AP and APCR). So this does not work if you're firing HE or HEAT.
2.) The overmatch mechanic applies to calibers greater than 3 times the thickness of the armor. That means 121mm caliber guns and larger will overmatch 40mm of armor, not 120mm caliber guns. In practice, this means that Russian heavy guns and a good amount of TDs will be able to overmatch it, not the majority of tanks.
fiery turtle
Please nerf the damn missile tanks.
Give them HEAT as their standard ammo instead of APCR.
Then their days of penning through tracks and spaced armour would be over.
They'd still be doing big alpha and firing guided missiles, but at least they wouldn't be able to race around with auto aim on penning everything easily - they'd have to aim properly to avoid hitting tracks and spaced armour.
hazy osprey
Why doesn’t the panther/m10 have the same or at least a similar armor profile to the panther? When they buffed panther did they forget m10?
coral bobcat
WG buff 183 is actually bad.
formal vale
@coral bobcat that's how it's supposed to be. It was incredibly annoying before the nerf, and now the game has become much more enjoyable. People can actually play mediums and lights now. They dont have to fear for losing half to 2/3rds of their HP in 1 shot because "lul I have HESH that does 1300 dmg".
crystal spoke
Somethings gotta be at the bottom and I'd rather it be the 183
coral bobcat
@formal vale with that argument nerff too kv2, su152 etc and they are lower tiers. Nubs in tier X cry about 183 all the time. I'm not a pro but i have 60k battles, how many times i suffer from a derp 183? 20 battles i guess, because i learn how to play against them. I learn to not expose my self in the wrong position so i can't get shot from one 183. But yes it's more easy cry than learn how to play correctly
formal vale
@coral bobcat they literally did nerf the KV-2 not too long ago. Also the SU-152 doesnt have a turret, which plays a major factor in this synopsis. The ability to freely aim and maintain camo was part of what made the 183 so unfun to play against.
I'm not arguing whether the 183 could easily be taken out, because it very easily could have been. The issue was its game influence. The tank was just far too toxic for the game and forced people to camp extremely hard. Thus WG nerfed the camo values and accuracy to make it nearly impossible to camp.
If WG were to buff the armor or something so it could be more viable up front, then I guess I wouldn't be opposed to it. It would have to be done carefully though because we dont want a Jageroo with a 183mm HESH shell and a turret running around at tier 10.
distant river
@coral bobcat I'm guessing what you have learnt to do to not get hit is to not be as agressive and to not spot as much, which is exactly the opposite of what blitz should be. A camping 183 can and will shut off a whole section of the map until someone is stupid enough to take a hit or smart enough to spot it without getting shot and the second scenario isnt common at all. It makes games stagnant and until the HESH is removed it cannot be buffed without breaking tier 10 even more.
crystal spoke
I'd be fine with a kv2 nerf su152 doesn't need one as it entirely lacks a turret
coral bobcat
I can't agree @distant river i know how to spot maybe you can't do that in the right way. @formal vale you are right in almost all, but now with the missiles, new heavies and the next hp buff the field will be different and 183 will be needed again.
formal vale
That's not true at all. We dont need the 183 to counter ATGMs. We dont need the 183 to counter the HT HP buff. Countering something OP with another thing that is OP only hurts everything that isn't OP. Next thing you know you'll have Maus/183 platoons or Sheridan/183 platoons that are now extremely effective as a result of the buff. It's a poor way to balance things. @coral bobcat
turbid smelt
@formal vale to overmatch something you need to have caliber 3 times or more of the armour
formal vale
No, it's greater than 3 times the nominal thickness of the armor. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFktFSJZPsQ
unique scaffold
How much dpm buff BC is getting?
turbid smelt
@formal vale
:|
@unique scaffold tier9 Batchat 25 T AP
formal vale
I see in the video at 10:20 they say that it's C>=3*h, meaning greater than or equal to. My bad. QuickyBaby strikes again with misinformation. @turbid smelt
@turbid smelt I know, I checked the site. I also checked the video to see whether it said it there too. Just checking my sources as much as you are yours.
turbid smelt
@formal vale it literally says on their site.... :'3
flat bane
:0
turbid smelt
bakara
@dull sandal mad games today
so yeah
dull sandal
I dropped the game since 6 months ago due to works, now corona kinda gave me some real free time. I intend to re install the game but then I saw the recent updates, mainly about ATGM. I do noticed the playerbase've been reduced greatly since those updates. So I wanna ask you guys is today a good time for me to re visit the game? @plush trellis @turbid smelt
Isn't madgame just temporary event? Yes I remember how fun it was in my time. Still, is the default game good? What is it about this ATGM stuff? You know, the "yo what happened" feeling when I revisit the game after half a year and see it's playerbase dropped so much and ppl agruing all over discord channel...
plush trellis
Mad games is coming this Friday i believe. So yes. Get a panther II or if you have a Super Pershing and 1 hit ram almost any heavy tank for the lols. @dull sandal
formal vale
Plus the Panther II will be getting an armor buff in 6.10
dull sandal
Ah nvm no harm giving the game a try
turbid smelt
:')
jagged crescent
Just play with a grain of salt. It’s still a toxic mess whenever someone gets a lil “excited”
vale sun
tiger lower plate needs nerf, upper plate is fine
also, I'm curious to why WG excludes tanks like the Skorp G and the WZ fake tank from the tier 8 stats, despite the inclusion of tanks like the jag 8.8
distant river
@coral bobcat I know how to spot too but the risk of an unspotted spawncamper is always there. Unfortunately if I don't spot then my team just camps and does nothing because the 183 can control too much of the map from spawn. I can't imagine how boring games must be when noone takes on the job of spotting. And no the 183 will never be needed in this game that is based around movement, but seeing as it's here it needs to be absolutely awful to play, like it is now.
turbid smelt
@distant river wg should make it a budget Jg Pz E100, so players would play it at front instead of back of the map
like buff to frontal armour and nerf sides to 40mm
distant river
As long as it has alpha people will camp in it just like people camp in the jag constantly. It needs a mobility and front armour buff but it can't get that until it gets its HESH removed. Nerfing it's shell velocity would definitely help as well
turbid smelt
I agree, had 183 player today in my team, didn't camp in spawn but sat far away from team and didn't hit targets that I kept spotting
unique scaffold
@turbid smelt @formal vale i haven’t read all of the discussion, so.. sorry for the ping in advance. Just wanted to say that the three calibers rule and overmatching does not work in blitz, tried it with a bunch of people and it does not work, neither APCR nor AP. @turbid smelt got a kv2 or a sheridan? Add me ingame, yes 🙂
turbid smelt
@unique scaffold are you sure?
got t92
ok this ign?
hehe boi
first 2 from t92, both shells bounced
twin egret
Blitz has some mechanics that are same as in WoT PC, just really. No, The Caliber Rule Stops at 39mm of armor, I have driven the FV4005, in which it has a 123mm cannon and fired at the KpfPz 40's Hull Roof, which is 40mm in thickness and still have it bounce. The FV4005 has a 123mm cannon, KpfPz has a 40mm roof on its hull, 40 x 3 = 120, thus the rule should work with the FV4005 being able to pen; overmatch the armor. Wrong, the shell didn't pen despite using AP & APCR. Don't Argue with this please. Blitz is an entirely different game and should not be treated the same as WoT PC, that's all.
And another note, just please, buff the Batignolles-Chatillon Char 25 t (The Tier 10, not the Tier 9), It needs maybe a DPM or Mobility Buff. As of now, the Sheridan is dominating and performing better as it stands as of now. I propose the Bat Chat could receive it's historic reverse speed of (as to make it unique since not many tanks have that fast of a reverse speed), an additional shell(s) in its magazine, a shorten inter-clip reload, or an Alpha Damage buff. (btw the tank's weight is wrong in-game I believe, It's supposed to be 25 or a bit more in the decimal numbers)
turbid smelt
@twin egret 3 calibers rule works because I have overmatched Jg Pz E100s engine deck many times in my Maus, Obj 268, Jg Pz E100 and Grille, at that angle engine deck will be 324mm thick which is not possible for mentioned vehicles to penetrate with their standard rounds if 3 calibers rule didn't work.
Reason why you couldn't penetrate kpfpz could be that commander of that vehicle was running Enhanced Armour , which will boost 40mm plate to 41.6mm thicc plate
thus requiring you to have gun caliber of 124.8mm or above to overmatch roof
Reason why 3 caliber rule failed in training room with @unique scaffold is unknown
but very likely that I shoot like potato
Batchat is good tenk maybe instead of dpm buff, it could receive 350 damage shells instead of 310 on its 105mm gun
@unique scaffold I just got free, we can try again
affirmative
I am in lobby watching ads
unique scaffold
@turbid smelt i don't think so because i have tried the same with a lot of other players, same result, no enhancing of armour. Something is wrong here. Give me 5 min
turbid smelt
after this test, it is clear that 2 calibers' rule works while 3 calibers' rule is not functioning properly
122mm Wz went through with APCR, firing from higher position
128mm Skorpion and 150mm Grille went through without height advantage
Fv 215B's APCR and AP against 40mm engine deck.
Conclusion: Jg Pz E100's Engine deck is made out of chocolate bar
static schooner
Why jagdtiger is getting armor buff? It's Good enough, it will be better to buff tortoise cheek and hatch
turbid smelt
tawdry grail
@turbid smelt you mean German chocolate 😋
turbid smelt
YOS!!!
acoustic shard
It's not to late. Slip a vindicator Buff into the next update. Prem Heap pen from 225 to 250 He pen from 20 to 88 and Gun depression from 2 to 4 or 5. It would make the tank really worth driving. You would be able to make the best your troll armor with out over exposing your weak points. And do more damage because of the added pen.
drowsy plaza
@turbid smelt a few of us tried in TR’s overmatch is broken on some tanks. No rhyme or reason. It works on some but not others.
FWIW WG has stated that the 4% armor boost doesn’t affect overmatch.
turbid smelt
interesting
it has been like this for awhile or few updates ago?
so I can finally fulfill my Ru 251 sidescraping dreams?
drowsy plaza
4-5 updates IIRC
Some tanks only. Some appear to do worse than they should.
I lost interest after about 7 tanks testing with a few different folks.
FWIW the no overmatch for additional armor has been since it was 5% at 3.8 Equipment
desert socket
Wargaming gonna buff Panther II armour? Dam, i play Panther II like a armoured med and is a beast, and they gonna buff more the armour. Same for JagdTiger
And i see how the 4% armour boost do a 122mm gun can't overwatch the 40mm armour plate of E100 and JagdPanzer E100
unique scaffold
@desert socket i honestly need to learn your trick at using the panther 2 as an armoured med since it doesn't bounce anything ;)) Really wished that that actually worked, trust me i know how to play tanks and i am more than 100% sure it does not work in that thing..
desert socket
@unique scaffold rotate the front of the chassis without exposing the side, hull down, or simply sidescrapping
turbid smelt
@desert socket it doesn't work like that, I got truth slapped today
desert socket
@turbid smelt when I do it works, and I can bounce and block shots from different types of cannons, and I'm sure with an armor buff, the Panther II will be one of my favorite tanks in the game. the same if they buff the armor of the JagdTiger :)
What I enjoy more with the Panther II is when I face cannons with less than 200mm of pen
@unique scaffold that's because I sold the tank. Today I bought it back and I was using it in madgames. that's why. My Panther II have 52%wr and 1349 average damage
unique scaffold
@desert socket according to your stats, you haven't played the tank in about 3 months, and when u did play it u had a 45% winrate and about 1200 damage per battle, not to be mean, but that means the tank doesn't work for you either 🙂 Sorry but misinformation has no place here and everyone needs to know the truth.
dense yoke
Hey, hey mabye hes a late learner.
@desert socket I mean record us a clip and show us how to bounce shots, to prove your point, that it is a beast.
That ought to let max belive you.
desert socket
@dense yoke where I can send the clip?
jade cargoBOT
Hans Grüber#3918 has been warned.
desert socket
This is what i always do to block damage with Panther II, and if enemys pen less than 175mm, i rush them
@meager spruce you want i send 1 clip every battle to prove how i block damage with Panther II? I just send a clip of how i always use Panther II like a armoured med
meager spruce
@desert socket one battle doesn't prove anything. Some battles you get lucky. Last week I bounced 2 missiles, a Jageroo and a shot from a Bat chat in a Leopard 1. Does that mean leopard 1 has amazing armor? No, no it doesn't
dense yoke
@desert socket one battle doesn't prove anything. Some battles you get lucky. Last week I bounced 2 missiles, a Jageroo and a shot from a Bat chat in a Leopard 1. Does that mean leopard 1 has amazing armor? No, no it doesn't
@meager spruce What if he sends another clip? Question time: I mean how many battles do you need for him to prove his point, i wonder.
karmic steeple
Everyone knows the panther II’s is trash that’s why they’re buffing it. The panther 1 has better armor. Most bounces will be pure luck
crystal spoke
If it's such a good tank why is it at the bottom of the average dmg/wr charts?
dense yoke
The tank is bad, but the guy is saying he can bounce shots in panther2. He's trying to prove his point thas all.😔
twin egret
@turbid smelt The problem with the CS is that Wargaming never told us how exactly it works, thus we may never know if the armor truly indeed was increased, or the "hardness" of the armor was, or other
unique scaffold
Would you like to have the guns going back after shooting like in wot
odd sun
Jagdpanther is unironically stronger than T28.
turbid smelt
@desert socket those are definitely lucky bounces, Indien panzer has 212mm of penetration on AP rounds and Type 62 has 250mm gold round
at what angle you are coming out, your upper plate would have armour ranging from 200mm to 240mm not counting that 68mm thicc square
240mm is at an angle of 65° so auto ricochet will not occur, thus once AP round would hit armour plate it will normalize by 5° reducing that 240mm to 201mm (which is in penetrating range of Indien panzer unless rng was having bad day)
Gold spamming Type 62 would have no problem, unless it will hit gun mantlet or gun
Indien has about same dpm as you where as Type has slightly less dpm firing its 250mm HEAT rounds
you would be toast infront of 2 tanks which would have combined dpm nearly twice as yours.
you lower plate is 110mm thick and you turrent cheeks at either side of gun mantlet are at 165mm thickness, the possible bounce region are from the even more angled cheeks which are at 280mm to 400mm or gun mantlet which is mostly over 300mm thick.
judging by where enemies are shooting, it is clear that they are going for turrent and some how landing hit on smaller unpenetrable part of armour.
I am telling you after experiencing Panther 2 myself, armour doesn't work on it unless enemies are more potato than me at shooting.
Now if rng was bad for enemies or auto ricochet angles are also broken and only function sometimes, I can't find any other way how those bounces could have been produced
After yesterday's testing, I am clear that normalization and 2 calibers' rule are still working
@twin egret yeah, you got a point
desert socket
@turbid smelt Auto Ricochet Angle is not broken, and I perfectly understand your point, but that's the way I always use my Panther II to block damage, and it always works for me. They can only pen the turret cheeks of 150mm (156mm with improved armor) and with being in constant movement they do not hit me, and the front of the chassis, i angle it more or less, depending on my opponent, and I was testing it, and a tank like the indien panzer can't pen my chassis front on that angle (I always use the armor upgrade on my tanks) and the type 62 which was even closer to the cover, hit me at a sharper angle, which also couldn't penetrate me. I also don't want to prove a point that for me the Panther II is the best medium of the game, because 95% of the players perfectly believe otherwise. Am I just going to enjoy my Panther II as a Tier 8 E50M when they buff the Panther II Armour
harsh ravine
Just because the Panther 2 is the best medium in your opinion does not make it factual that it is the best tier 8 medium out there. There are better tier 8 mediums and the Panther 2 is not one of them
unique scaffold
in fact, panther 2 is probably the worst one
turbid smelt
@unique scaffold got em xD
unique scaffold
Doesnt type 62 have meh ap pen aswell ill look into it next morning
formal vale
The Panther II is the worst performing medium tank according to the data given in #devs-answers. Next to the Indien Panzer, it's right between 56 and 57% wr with 55-65%ers. The Centurion, the 3rd worst, is just barely under 57%.
unique scaffold
Panther II is paper. It’s easier to go against a Panther II than a Panther I in any tier 7. All tier 7 Germans pen in anywhere and even the AMX 13 75 can pen the lower front plate with AP and the upper plate with APCR.
dense yoke
The guy says he can bounce shots on panther2 and im his opinion it is his fav med. Don't tell me y'all jelly cuz he bounces on panther2 and you don't
unique scaffold
I bounced IS shots in my AMX 13 75. That doesn't mean it has armour. Saying Panther II has armour is incorrect. Troll bounces are part of the game and can happen in any tank. Panther II has strengths but armour is certainly not one of them (at least not yet).
desert socket
As I said, i always bounce shots with my Panther II doing the same tactics, and im just gonna enjoy the Panther II armour buff. That gonna make my Panther II more stronk tonk
drowsy plaza
@desert socket autobounce is broken on some tanks. Several updates ago WG broke the armor models on a few. Before the Panther armor buff it was also defeating overmatch on the sides. All most of us are saying is you shouldn’t be counting on those bounces - a good player will make Swiss cheese out of a P2 currently.
unique scaffold
@drowsy plaza u know that overmatch doesn’t work in blitz right? it’s just broken and after a couple of tries with @turbid smelt and others we clearly saw that only the 2x caliber rule works @desert socket the engine deck of that tank is either bugged or overmatch only works on that tank, try overmatching it with a low pen 122 mm gun, you should be able to, but you can’t, also why does the 120 mm gun on the 215b not pen at an angle where the effective mm is about 105mm? that engine deck is bugged. After trying with a bunch of other tanks, we clearly saw that overmatch doesn’t work for most of the tanks ingame, jgpz e100 and e100 are like exceptions.
drowsy plaza
@unique scaffold it used to work - and oddly still works on some tanks.
desert socket
@unique scaffold the x3 caliber rule still working. I can overmatch the 40mm upper plate of JagdPanzer E100 using a 128mm gun, a 150mm and a 170mm
@drowsy plaza and in the clip i send, the shots of the indien panzer and type 62 bounce because they hit my gun mantlet and the sides of my turret. They don't hit my frontal turret armour
@unique scaffold i can overmatch that with a 122mm gun if the Jagdpanzer E100 don't use the armour upgrade, because the rule says "the caliber of the gun had to be more than 3 times the armour thicknes". A 120mm gun can't overmatch that because need to be more than 3 times the armour thicknes (121mm)
mellow cape
@unique scaffold I've said it before, but overmatch =/= autopen, the shell still has to pen the remaining effective armor after the massive normalization from the 2x caliber rule
turbid smelt
@desert socket we did without armour upgrade
as @drowsy plaza mentioned it is buggy
3 caliber's rule is not functioning properly
it is buggy and works on few
desert socket
@turbid smelt mmmmm, i don't have any answer. When I play, the game mechanics always works good, i mean a example: Panther I side armour is 50mm, a 152/155mm gun can overmatch that, but i use armour upgrade, so my Panther I have 52mm of armour on the side, and for that, i can bounce a 152/155mm gun with the side armour.
@unique scaffold that's because I said, Is a 120mm gun, and you need minimun a 121mm gun to overmatch the 40mm deck of JagdPanzer E100
Here another example: my leopard 1 side armour is 35mm, and if a 105mm gun hit my side armour with ap and apcr in a ricochet angle, that just bounce, because the gun need to be more than 3 times the armour thicknes to not bounce, no matter how much pen have that 105mm gun.
@unique scaffold the x2 caliber rule doesn't work if the shot ricochet. The first calculation the game do is about the shot can ricochet in the armour. If the shot don't bounce, starts the other calculations
unique scaffold
@mellow cape that isn’t what we are talking about, with the normalization from the 2x caliber rule, guns with 225 mm of pen on AP and a 122mm gun should easily pen that deck even at a steep angle, because AP gets in total 10* of normalization, so it goes at about a 75* or less angle, and the eff mm is much lower than that. what’s weird here is that we were not able to pen it with the gun on the 215b at an angle where the effective thickness was about 105mm, literally nothing! it was all red, even the cheeks were easier to pen at the same angle but they r much thicker. @desert socket dude can’t u understand??? we were at an angle where u literally needed no overmatch mechanic to work, the effective MM was about 105!!! also u can bounce sides of leo easily, and the armour module does not increase the actual armour thickness, it adds up after calculating the effective thickness at that moment. @turbid smelt i’m actually driving rn, had a little stop but now will continue moving 🤣🤣🤣 explain to this guy our tries and why we failed penning when 3x caliber shouldve worked
turbid smelt
@unique scaffold I got leo1 we can give that a try :D
playing and driving is not illegal
xD
safe journey
@desert socket on blitz wiki it says caliber needs to be thrice to overmatch armour
clearly mechanic is not functioning properly
we did, I will post clips of bounce by 122mm, when it should penetrate regardless the angle, I didn't had enhanced armour
I know it works sometimes because I do same in Maus.
it only managed to pen by height advantage, stating 3 caliber's rule not working while 2 caliber's rule is working
desert socket
@turbid smelt and in the load screen before enter to battle and a explaining video says the caliber had to be MORE than 3 times the armour thicknes to overmatch the armour, and that's true if you test it
I want to see the clips, because I can overmatch a 40mm plate if i use a 122mm gun.
turbid smelt
low pen 122mm gun @desert socket
12.8cm Skorpion gun and 15cm Grille gun went through, it could be 3 calibers' rule is working there or it could be 2 calibers' rule.
but 3 caliber's rule didn't work with Wz's 122mm, so it is broken
as per wiki, FV 215B should be able to penetrate as well but it can't, it was all red, even firing from higher position where Wz's gun saw armour plate grey
The same results we had in tier x Progetto (50mm front plate) against 152mm gun of T92E1, armour appers red at extreme angle and in less extreme angle it appears penetrable yet still bounced 152mm APCR round
apparently wiki is down at the moment
desert socket
@turbid smelt the WZ shot don't ricochet, that means the shot can't pen the 40mm plate on that angle. Overmatch (shell can't ricochet) not means gonna pen if you use a low pen 122mm gun on that extreme angle, and FV215B just gonna pen the 40mm plate if the angle is less than 70° where the shell not ricochet, because a 120mm gun can't overmatch a 40mm plate. Needs to be more than 3 times
I use the game mechanics as answer. The game mechanics are not broken
3 caliber's rule: if the shell caliber is more than 3 times the armour thickness, the shot can't ricochet, and gonna try pen the armour no matter the angle, but if the gun pen is less than the armour effective thickness by the angle, not gonna pen. Yes, penetration number of the gun still being needed in overmatch. Overmatch is not a instant pen
turbid smelt
@desert socket what do you understand by 3 caliber's rule?
3 caliber's rule state that, gun of 3 times the caliber of nominal armour penetrates armour regardless the angle
it is insta pen if gun caliber is 3 times the armour
penetration is not playing any role here
at same angle 12.8cm Skorpion went through with 265mm of penetration, 15cm grille went through with 280mm base penetration, Maus goes through with 245mm of penetration while effective armour is around 400 to 800mm
they say pretty same thing in WoT guide video
wz has 122mm gun and 220mm of penetration
it doesn't read that jpg file I sneaked from blitz wiki site
I can't training room with u then
bot decided to delete entire reply because of giant annoyed face I made
desert socket
No, Is not instant pen. The first calculation is the 3 caliber's rule. The shot don't ricochet, starts the other calculations: 2 caliber's rule do the armour plate fall over the 246mm of maus pen. If you see the upper plate of the Jagdpanzer in front, and you have the 3 caliber's rule, you need a minimun caliber of 121mm with a pen of 220mm if you hit it on that extreme angle. The own rule says that, the shell gonna try to pen the armour regardless the angle. That mean's the shell can't ricochet if the angle is more than 70°, but still having to pen the effective armour with the gun pen (don't count the he and hesh because both he can't ricochet, and heat ricochet at 85° of angle) sorry the minimun pen is 240mm at 80°
My only proof is game experience sorry. Is any form we can go to training room?
The explaining video explain what i said. The wot blitz wiki is just a summary
@turbid smelt i play in LATAM server, my nickname is EliiGamer_685
@turbid smelt Ok then, my proof is, try to overmatch much armour plates with exactly 3 times the caliber of the gun (example 35mm armour plate with a 105mm gun, or a 40mm with a 120mm gun) you never gonna overmatch, because you need more than 3 times the caliber than the armour thickness (one tip in the loading screens says that, and you can see a video of armour penetration. Says you need more than 2/3 times the gun caliber than the armour thickness for the 2/3 caliber's rule) and you need a gun with enough pen to do with the 2 caliber's rule, the shell pen a 89° armour plate using the 10° normalization with AP (hit a 79° armour plate). Is all in the game mechanics, that's why you can't overmatch the 40mm armour plate of JagdPanzer E100 with a FV215B, and you can't pen the Jagdpanzer deck with the WZ 122mm gun, because the gun pen is not enough after the 3 caliber's rule. Try it with every 122mm with the same/less armour pen than WZ. Never gonna pen on that angle, but not because the rules are broken.
turbid smelt
even in video it shows C >= 3*h
rule is broken if it doesn't work for even a single gun, it should work for every gun that qualifies the requirements
thing is you don't even agree when you are proven wrong, you simply increase the bar
it used to work perfectly fine, there are few bugs which is not allowing it to function properly for few updates
that
is
what
I
said
so
far
desert socket
And it works, dam for 1.7 years i play wot blitz and 2 years i play wot pc (5 years ago) the rule don't change and still working as always. No, you said the rule is broken but is not. That's how the rule works and im trying to explain that to you. I just can believe in ghost shells as a bug, but the 3 caliber's rule and 2 caliber's rule are working perfectly from when I start playing to today. That's how the rule always works (the caliber is more than 3 times the armour thickness, no just 3 times)
turbid smelt
look in the video, it is written and stays static for the entire length of it
121mm of effective armour
"3 caliber's rule is not broken"
"I have 1.7 years of experience"
and my over 5 years of experience is just a fish out of water
desert socket
What is that, a FV215B? You need to hit it on 69° to pen. If you hit it on 70 or 71 like the picture, the shot just gonna ricochet.
You need a gun MORE THAN 3 TIMES MORE bigger than the armour thickness to not ricochet in a angle of more than 70°.
turbid smelt
I won't reply to you, you are definitely hopeless
desert socket
Wargaming stop supporting the blitz wiki years ago, and the man in the video clearly says "if the gun caliber is MORE than 3 times the armour thickness, the shell not gonna ricochet" and one of the loading screens in wot blitz says the same, "if the gun caliber is MORE than 3 times the armour thickness, not gonna ricochet". That rule was ALWAYS that.
Stop saying the blitz mechanics are broken. From the start of the game (blitz and pc) to today, a 120mm gun never overmatched a 40mm armour plate (same if you try to overmatch a 25mm plate with a 75mm gun) in more than 70° of angle with AP or APCR. NEVER
mellow cape
@turbid smelt You missed a key word in that vid, the shell will ATTEMPT to penetrate, not that it will penetrate, the thing on the wiki is probably just them missing that word.
That's a 215B right? that rule doesnt apply to 215b, it needs to be greater, the vid text got that wrong too, it says more than thrice in the script of the vid
turbid smelt
@mellow cape 121mm of effective armour is pretty hard to penetrate with 220mm of penetration on 122mm gun and 259mm of penetration on 120mm gun
it just could be they drop it as it is not fluent to say
thrice or more than thrice
3times equals to greater than
desert socket
@turbid smelt you can't understand? You need a gun caliber MORE THAN 3 TIMES the armour thickness (a 120mm gun gonna ricochet if you hit a 40mm plate at 70° because the gun is not MORE than 3 times the armour thickness) to not ricochet, and the gun gonna ATTEMPT to pen the effective armour. you can't pen with 220mm of armour penetration of a 122mm gun, a 40mm plate at 80° (90° -10° if you use AP and just -4° if you use APCR) with a effective armour of 240mm!
turbid smelt
yeah right and Wz's 122mm AP shell will forget to normalize because that is completely fine to do.
Did I mention 2 caliber's rule would allow for better normalization, as clearly 159mm of effective armour after 5° normalization is not enough for 220mm of penetration
definitely nothing is wrong here
just bend the logic bro or raise the bar so it just won't be able to
240mm of penetration
time to buy back Ru 251 and sidescrape infront of ISU 152 because clearly 20mm of armour at 89.999° should not be penetrate
I will just raise the bar to 380mm of penetration required to penetrate 20mm of armour at 89.999°
@desert socket this pic is showing Wz's view
clearly I am the wrong one here
there we go
you just raised bar up again
logic : I work if conditions are met
ElliGamer685 : but what if I bend you?
logic : I guess I will demonetize
desert socket
@turbid smelt You definitely can't be convinced that you're wrong about the game mechanics huh? keep thinking the mechanics are broken, I will stop arguing with you because it's like I'm trying to teach a little boy. And another think, in your video, the WZ hit the 40mm plate just as vertical angle at 89°
@turbid smelt wich WZ is? There's much WZ heavys in the game
WZ-112-2?
acoustic shard
Buff the Vindicators prem Heat pen from 225 to 250 and He pen from 80 to 88 and gun depression from 2 to 5
turbid smelt
check the video captian 89°
desert socket
@turbid smelt FV215B only can pen if the angle is less than 70°, because can't overmatch the 40mm armour plate because the gun is not more than 3 times bigger than the armour plate
About the WZ, i need a video of the WZ view point to see in what angle hit's the WZ-122-2 apcr (with 215mm of pen)
@turbid smelt I cannot recreate those scenes, I can only confirm that the FV215B cannot overmatch because its gun is not more than 3 times the thickness of the 40mm plate and just ricochet. You can only pen if the angle is less than 70 °. And I said I need a video to see what angle the WZ-122-2 shoots at jagdpanzer. you can use that replay from the jagdpanzer and rotate your camera looking at the WZ
turbid smelt
@desert socket recreate Fv 215b one first
why can't you recreate? with that armour pic you posted
desert socket
@turbid smelt because I don't have the FV, and i don't have anybody with FV215B as friends
Ok wait 7 minutes for send that (the cooldown)
@turbid smelt armour plate at 71° of angle = ricochet, because the gun needs to be more than 3 times the armour thickness to not ricochet, no just 3 times.
desert socket
@turbid smelt i see the replay, and the WZ shots you at something like 84° of angle (I put the Jagdpanzer at 88° of angle because in pc, they change the 2 caliber's rule, doing the bonus of normalization in pc is 2 times more than blitz), the armour angle showed in the pic using APCR (the standard WZ shell is APCR) by the 2 caliber's rule is 80 with a effective armour of 233mm. I use the IS-2 apcr with 217mm of pen, and can't pen the 40mm plate (35% of chance because in pc the pen can be 25% higher than the average pen, but that's not in blitz) soooo im not wrong, overmatch is not instant pen
atomic hound
Idk how many times I have to correct that myth... @desert socket
Yes, OVERMATCH IS NOT AUTO PEN...
Would be a hand if the YouTubers could finally get this right, it's thanks to them that the community has the wrong idea.
unique scaffold
@atomic hound but the thing here was that the jgpz e100 engine deck is still bugged as all hell.
odd sun
T28 sucks a lot.
desert socket
@unique scaffold no is not, all my discussion with Dear was to prove the game mechanics (and the Jagdpanzer E100 engine deck) are not broken as he thinks
unique scaffold
@desert socket not bugged huh? This shot actually penned with APCR, despite being at an angle bigger than 70*, and AP wasn’t even able to pen at an angle of 63*-66* when the effective MM is about 100 and there is not way it should ricochet, basically it penned when it was not supposed to and it didn’t when it should’ve... Also, question, if u shoot at an angle of 71*, doesn’t the basic AP or APCR shell normalization come into play? or is it after it decides whether it is a ricochet or not. After a bunch of tests and not only the jgpz e100, it is clear that overmatching doesn’t work as intented on a big part of the tanks, only on some.
unique scaffold
@desert socket good example would be the front plate of the progetto 65 shot by an ISU 152(because that’s the tank we had at the moment), shot the front plate at an angle of about 87, caliber is more than 3 times higher, means there is not autobounce right? it goes to 2x caliber calculation so the normalization would make it so the angle is enough for it to pen, but it still doesn’t. Then why is their equation false.. Are they that ignorant? Because they clearly show that it needs to be equal to 3x the mm or more. the screenshot i showed u i shot with apcr and penned, but my AP shot at the exact same location, no movement, did not pen, it still being at a less than 70* of angle as you say, it should have penned though, if all you say is correct. I was the player that used the 215B and i know best, the screenshot i sent u, APCR penned, even though it looks somewhat red, so you cleared it out to me that it is less than 70* of angle, but my issue is also that the AP did not pen, even though it has more than enough pen to go thru that, no matter how much the eff mm can get to a 69* angle
desert socket
@unique scaffold the shell normalization doesn't work if the shot ricochet. Ricochet ignore every pen capability because do the shot just, ricochet ok? And that angle of the pic is not 70° because, the armour is 100% Red when the angle is more than 70° and the gun is not more than 3 times the armour thickness
@unique scaffold and second, you can said that, but Dear never mention that to me, he just said the shots of the FV215B never pen with ap or apcr, and i explain is because that gun can't overmatch the 40mm plate, and just gonna ricochet if the shell hit a angle of 70° or more
unique scaffold
@desert socket when u switch to AP if u were at the exact position where i sent that screenshot, the deck becomes all red, even tho it’s less than 70* angle and there is no way it should bounce, since the eff mm is way lower than the pen on the 215b @desert socket wait haha so its more than 70* right???? then why did APCR pen when it should have ricocheted? You’re contradicting yourself lmaoo 😝 He can’t confirm because he is not here yet haha, we’ll see.
desert socket
@unique scaffold nop, the angle in the pics is more than the angle of that 3d model
@unique scaffold you said something what Dear can't confirm, so i just can said you are lying
@unique scaffold I argued with him for about 4 hours for this, and he never mentioned what you are saying, and confirmed other things. that's why i say you are lying
odd sun
T28 stands for Trash 28% winrate.
Because that's where you get with playing the tank.
turbid smelt
@desert socket 8.54° of normalization with 122mm APCR
yeah and 3 caliber's rule is the same because reasons
during calculations they drop equals to sign, otherwise it is shown, mistakes or misinformation?
desert socket
@turbid smelt that's in wot pc, not in blitz. Not every rule of wot pc is the same on wot blitz (something what at least 80% of players know)
turbid smelt
something what at least 80% of players know
we did test based on what is written and it didn't result in true everytime when it should
absolutely no idea
just raise the bar up again
ez counter
@desert socket where is that information you bringing up?
any proofs?
you still have time to say it is 89°
you know?
of course you don't, when ever anything is shown aboved you simply raised bar and said no this but this, so it will just not able to penetrate
desert socket
(Im gonna said it again) @turbid smelt because shell normalization by 2 caliber's rule, in blitz is less than pc (4° for apcr and 10° for ap)
IS in the own game mechanics, in the blitz files and wargaming tips. Not that blitz wiki (unsupported)
You think i have any proof prepared to discuss with a guy like you who can't learn the game mechanics and starts thinking the game is broken?
"You simply raised bar and said no this but this" that's you too, trying to found any excuse of why can't overmatch a 40mm plate with a 120mm gun and can't pen a 40mm plate at 80° of effective armour with a 122mm gun with 215mm of pen, and just thinks the game is broken
desert socket
@turbid smelt im in north america server. We can enter in training room now?
I ask if we can enter in training room together, and see the game mechanics always works right
What's your server? EU is North America server, or is europe.
Well, i try. As America server (LATAM and North America) game mechanics always works right. Not more discussions
@turbid smelt i try to use the World of Tanks Blitz mechanics as answer, but you still thinking the game is broken. Still thinking that, but something more: if the game mechanics are really broken, you think you and your friends (who test that with you) gonna be the only ones who believe that? Me and other guys try to convince you, but that's impossible (try to use WZ again with calibrated shells, 226mm of average pen againts 233mm of effective armour can pen sometimes (because in blitz, pen can be 5% higher than the average pen with lucky))
turbid smelt
as my name states in written format, I am on eu
it is not misinforming like text from video and wiki
we can't if we on different servers
big face-palm *
Europe
they don't always
atleast in wz case
drowsy plaza
@desert socket you really need to check your attitude. Anyone here can see your stats. Several of us have told you facts. How’d the bouncing in your P2 go today? 4 games at 600 avg dmg? It’s pretty easy to see your missing some key game mechanics. Don’t get cranky at @turbid smelt simply for explaining things to you.
twin egret
lol
desert socket
@drowsy plaza you're right about 600 average damage, because today I was playing with 20% loss and 300 ping after discuss with Dear for 5 hours -_-
I don't know what is WN8 (I never check it) and i don't play with Panther II after 2020 starts, because I sold the tank and i buy it back yesterday
@drowsy plaza in battle i get better results in Panther II than Panther I, but maybe my average stats in Panther I are better than Panther II because I was playing Panther I those days, and i sold the Panther II after Christmas (and i buy it again yesterday). That's why maybe my Panther II average stats can be worse, but be sure i like much more the Panther II than Panther I (my last battle with Panther II yesterday, i do 3300 damage and 2 kills)
drowsy plaza
You realize you have better avg dmg in the P1 than the P2 this month? Furthermore the P2 is so much trash that your getting a Unicum Wn8 this month in it with rather poor tier 7 results...
drowsy plaza
@desert socket below is your today results.
This is your 30 day
I don’t know why your raving about bouncing in the P2 as it’s not working.
desert socket
Im gonna check if i can play now with Panther II without lag -_- @drowsy plaza
Also this is my 30 days results, but i use the Panther II from early before the halloween 2019 event, and my Panther II stats are better than my Panther I stats counting all my battles in both tanks (all time results)
turbid smelt
8 battles are quite low to prove if someone is playing bad or guud
you have better winrate and spot rate with panther 2
while panther 1 has better damage output, kills per battle, hit rates and kill death ratio
desert socket
@turbid smelt that's from 30 days results, and as I said, i just play both tanks yesterday and 4 battles with lag today with Panther II. In All time results, Panther II have the better stats except in WR (and WN7)
vivid birch
Buff French light tanks
turbid smelt
@vivid birch all or some?
vivid birch
Some
vivid birch
More so the AMX 13 75 & 90
vivid birch
Because they are not that good.
turbid smelt
#vehicles-discussion
I found Amx 13 90 was pretty good and more fun than Batchat 25T AP and Amx 13 75
but that's my personal opinion, which doesn't deny any facts if it doesn't perform guut
I found T54 to be better than ap bc and very annoying to deal with
unique scaffold
I enjoyed bc AP the most out of all of them the 13 75 used to be my favorite before it was completely ruined
twin egret
the AMX 13 90 was somewhat fun, challenging too maybe, but nevertheless, it was fun. Same goes for the Bat-Gnolles Châtillon 25 t AP, it was small, it could do damage and spot effectively. But this is just my opinion
noble siren
Can't wait for the HP buff to the heavies, especially the one on the Maus
vivid birch
In comparison to the other light tanks at the same tier, it has a problem with power creep. Meaning that the other light tanks perform better, besides the fact it has a magazine, speed, dpm, and Alpha.
thin kraken
Hey Blitz team, are the tanks like: Tankenstein, O-47...etc... Are forgotten?
New pay to win tanks like Smasher or Action X released with op stats, some others got buff. But there are many tanks are left behind, too weak for what they was used to be :(
unique scaffold
@unique scaffold @molten crest English please
molten crest
yes i am not strong for english
onyx path
Buff required for the French lights indeed
unique scaffold
sorry I do not speak English
crystal spoke
@thin kraken nope not forgotten they sold them quite recently and while the smasher is blatantly op I dont think the action X is its definitely over cooked but I wouldn't say op
harsh tusk
Buff sp1c don't understand why it has paper thin armour.
unique scaffold
Because that’s how it was built
burnt venture
WG, WHY does the single shot gun on the Foch 155 have the same REDUCED alpha as the autoloader? That makes NO sense at all. This literally just prompts players to play the autoloader and makes the single shot gun absolutely useless. You have the same reload as other TDs, but randomly gets 80 less alpha on the AP and 200 less on the HE? This is just lazy at this point. Fix the damn 155mm single shot gun.
dense yoke
Ruduce sp1c interclip or mag clip and it would be special.
regal grove
Sp1c strong already wym
dense yoke
Imagine getting rammed to death in a sp1c.
turbid smelt
@regal grove it needs to be stronger))))
sleek vault
Hey Blitz team, are the tanks like: Tankenstein, O-47...etc... Are forgotten?
New pay to win tanks like Smasher or Action X released with op stats, some others got buff. But there are many tanks are left behind, too weak for what they was used to be :(
Tbh this
molten crest
hello
unique scaffold
hello
molten crest
hi
turbid smelt
Maus Hauz
orchid grove
lol, eating 13k damage from the enemy. That's enough to basically kill an entire team normally
turbid smelt
ikr, my tds had field day
cyan vine
Why are we Raising health for tier 10’s? Tier 9’s have like 1600 health average, that’s a huge jump, why don’t wargaming work on buffing and nerfing tanks instead? Their better at it.
distant river
Because they are so bad at balancing tanks they get it wrong almost all the time, so what they end up doing is a useless knee jerk reaction to everyone crying that their superheavy was penned by prammo when they were in the open @cyan vine
dusky cedar
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/502017295107883008/689796230817382481/6.8_-_tier_10.png
Any plan on buffing tds like grille,183 and wz? their stats are really low compared to all the other tier 10s.
crystal spoke
Hopefully they never buff the 183 (without a major overhaul) the others could use a buff
distant river
The 183 needs a buff, but first it needs it's stupid HESH removed, and imo the HE removed as well. Otherwise it needs to stay as bad as it is.
The grille could do with a buff in depression by 1° in the middle growing to 2° extra on the sides, and then a hull traverse buff and a turret traverse nerf.
Idk about the wz I've never played it, but it sure as hell doesn't need any more consumables
acoustic shard
The 183 needs it's gun stats
and mobility returned to were they were before. And the Stationary consealment to 56 the on the move to 40. the Grille needs better Concealment as well. And allround mobility buff, maybe plus 10% or 15% to everything. The WZ Might just need better shell velosity and side armor.
halcyon saddle
#BuffBatchat25T
crystal spoke
@distant river removing hesh and he would be a major overhaul ( not saying I dont completely agree with you)
molten crest
hello guys
unique scaffold
make the 183 be somewhat armoured and that should be about enough, make it go with the heavies and not camp in the back because itll still be spotted instantly, by having a little bit of armour it can be somewhat useful in some scenarios
karmic steeple
And remove the ridiculous hesh that adds nothing but rage and frustration to the game. Let it have its 930 alpha gun and that should be plenty to punish and scare enemies who play too aggressively
molten crest
hello
random anvil
Does anyone here except me have qualms while playing with WZ-110?
molten crest
👍
mellow cape
@unique scaffold increasing armor would only make the camping 183s more annoying to deal with, since its a TD people are naturally inclined to camp in it (thats why you see E4s and E3s and Jageroos camping as well, since they are TD and people think TD = sniper)
lunar niche
People will camp in spawn regardless of tank class and armor.
unique scaffold
@mellow cape forgot to mention to make camo worse
unique scaffold
FV215b is not balanced by giving it the least amount of health. E5 will replace almost every other heavy for tournaments.
noble siren
@mellow cape jagaroo is bad frontline tank, but good for second line.
acoustic shard
Buff the VIndicators Gun depression from -2 to -5 and It's prem Ammunition from 255 to 250, Also it's He from 80 to 88. It would make for a truly flexible TD.
karmic steeple
But why
stoic light
can we buff the sheridan, it needs a bigger gun
karmic steeple
😫
mellow cape
@noble siren ik, but its not a camping tank, its more effective when played aggressively yet I see people camping with it in the back all the time
drowsy plaza
@mellow cape there are E100’s, IS-4 and IS-7’s that think they are snipers too.
Some folks are simply oxygen thieves
glossy niche
BUFF EXP
unique scaffold
the missilr tanks need a buff
crystal spoke
They're already blowing the competition outa the water and the t92 is tied the top rated tank
noble siren
Can they fix the armor behind the tracks on Maus, cause getting penned with ease by mediums with no pen is something that should not exist.
desert socket
@noble siren the armour behind the Maus track is 85mm thick. That's why (in real life is the same too)
molten crest
hello
meager dawn
howdy
molten crest
hello
molten crest
cc
molten crest
hello
meager spruce
no need to spam the chat with "hello"
mellow cape
hello
unique scaffold
hello
acoustic shard
Buff the WZ blaze's ammo capasity. 24 ammo for a tier 7 td with good dpm isn't enough. you get so many game's were you do good and run out of prammo an/or HE
compact nymph
The WZ Blaze has the lowest dpm out of all T7 TD’s, and lower than a bunch of the same tier mediums. Saying that it has good dpm is kind of a joke. You should reconsider what you are saying and, as an example, check blitzhangar
molten crest
The WZ Blaze is strong
compact nymph
Debatable. Turret is only traversable on 40 degrees each side. Gun is nothing special, traverse neither. Armor isn’t a strong point. Hp/tons ratio is quite good, but that’s all it has. As said above, low dpm and pen isn’t that good. I’d say it’s ok and a workable support tank, but not that strong seriously
molten crest
yes
unique scaffold
I feel like they should make the E100 bottom plate buffed o it’s not so easy to pen
compact nymph
Don’t worry, it’s getting a good chunk of Hp’s next update
mellow cape
Only thing e100 should get is a turret side armor buff so you can angle it better and not get meme penned
molten crest
im not E100
turbid smelt
@molten crest few meds can already not pen that without gold, we clearly don't need another Tiger 2
autumn zodiac
E 100 Is going to be more effective than same tier TD 150mms simply due to hit points, armor, and a turret. This is gonna be quite the interesting update
flat garden
Why is bt-sv horrible?
unique scaffold
Cause it was literally given to everyone for free
hollow ledge
@flat garden sell it for gold
flat garden
I know that's what I want to do I just can't rn. I'm not home.
lunar niche
VK 100 with 100mm armour behind 40mm thick tracks, Mauschen with 120mm armor behind 50mm thick tracks and then Maus with 80mm armor behind 25mm thick tracks.
You would think that you made your LFP strong by angling only to get tracked and damaged because of that angle.
unique scaffold
Ok, here me out, more speed on the RU, scrap it’s old gu and give it a 183 auto loader, make it 3000hp, maus armour, 200 tons (but faster than old ru) and fires rockets
noble siren
@lunar niche that's why it should be buffed to the point to respectively bounce against anything like medium cause it's just ridiculous getting pend by T62A while you make a perfect angle to bounce shells.
molten crest
yes
frail silo
@acoustic shard how about playing techtree tanks instead of going around wanting to buff premium tanks only
considering there are a lot of op premiums or good ones there is no need to buff other premiums just to feel superior in the tank you bought while f2p players suffer
it is good to have premiums like the mutz or blaze not stupidly op and decent while the techtree counter part is equal or better
you are already rewarded with more credits and xp.
noble siren
Btw F2P is someone who didn't spend a penny on the game not someone who plays tech-tree tanks only.
flat maple
Foch 155 needs buff
unique scaffold
Btw F2P is someone who didn't spend a penny on the game not someone who plays tech-tree tanks only.
This. I haven't spent a penny and yet I have 5 prems.
frail silo
@noble siren and how would that affect the argument?
i have seven premiums and i am f2p
my point is there is no need to make every premium stupidly good or buff them when they are already decent just because why not
distant river
^ In fact there is every reason to nerf most of them to make them something close to balanced. Start a trend of not releasing op prems and then people will eventually realise what prems should be for (which isn't having an advantage in battle)
Sincerely, a p2w bot who has spent wayyyy too much
frozen summit
i feel like tiger 2 is worst tank in tier8
unique scaffold
Straight up lie
heavy flicker
Ok before some one actually ends me I believe the 183 deserves a buff. It has zero camo and no mobility. It has become the worst tier ten by a mile and I cant even stand playing as you have little effect on the outcome of the battle
frozen summit
to be honest ? i can shoot twice in game before others nuke the shit out of me, on the other hand when i played panther tier7 i could really wreck everybody else. I realize its different style of playing but seriously others compared to tiger 2 are waay more superior imo. everyone is either faster or have better armor or better dps. i deal around 300 and recive hits for 400-500...
crystal spoke
If the tiger 2 is so bad why is it the third highest wr in all three tiers we have data for
frozen summit
can u share this data with me ? but compared to IS (slow but tanky and hits hard) kv - hits hard tanky but slow, british tanky hits often but weakly. tiger 2 is avarage at everythink so all u do i hide and hope noone sees u
crystal spoke
#devs-answers @frozen summit
unique scaffold
@frozen summit one IS and KV series tanks at T8 have trouble even penning tiger 2 KV4-5 especially two the brits can’t withstand hits or trade like tiger 2 can
frozen summit
@crystal spoke thank you, i will give it chance then. @reef socket not funny :C
clever mason
@reef socket is right. i have no clue what you tried to say @frozen summit
frozen summit
what i mean is that, compared to other that have their advantages and disadvantages tiger 2 looks bad, but i might be wrong. For example IS is really hard to hit so its kinda of tanky tank that also hits hard, or KV that hits even harder and has good crust as well but are slow. IDK im new to this game so i need to learn h2p.
acoustic shard
Buff the WZ blaze's Ammo capasity 24 is not enough to carry. Often time's at the end of a t8 and even some t7 matches I find myself out of apcr and reaching my last few Ap shells. And Buff the Vindicators Prem Heap pen from 225 to 250 it's He pen from 80 to 88 and it's Gun depresssion from -2 to -4 or -5. ither one would be better then what it is now.
jaunty pivot
This is an actual problem and should be fixed in someway. The issue is getting spotted before I can even leave spawn. It happens when fast tanks rush middle. Anything that’s slow or is not moving immediately. can end up getting caught out in the open. Its just messed up. I only see 3 ways of fixing this nerf the viewing range or make the maps slightly bigger or add more cover around spawn area
crystal spoke
You could just add a time limit until you can get spotted
frozen summit
ive got another question idk if it is a good place for it. Each time when i play alone i win like 60% or more of my games. When i create platoon with my friend who has 4k more battles than me, we end up with 90% games lost due to worse team (both tanks and players) mostly. It feels like when we play together its much harder than alone. Is it common or is it just us
mellow cape
When you are playing in a toon, the enemy team also has a toon, and chances are the enemy toon also has good players (happens often when I toon on asia), so you get lesser chance of winning than if you just played alone because enemy team has 2 good players
viscid breach
@frozen summit I have a 33% platoon win ratio, but a 60% solo win ratio. The guy I used to toon with is a 62%er. It's probably because the game tries to "balance" teams, so it'll probably put much worse players on your team, eg 5 40%ers or even 30%ers, along with the toon of 2 above average / good players, with the enemy team being all average players of around 50% and above
vale sun
@frozen summit You probably need to learn more about the tanks you play.
The Tiger requires good knowledge of angling and side scraping to get the most out of it's armour. It also has a very accurate gun, and it fires much faster. IS tanks will put more damage per shot into you, but you can hit them 2 times for every 1 time they hit you. Also, IS tanks generally have horrible accuracy stats. Try engaging them at longer ranges.
distant river
@viscid breach You are reading the stats completely wrong. You have a 60% WR with 30% of your wins coming from when you are in a platoon, not a 30% WR in a platoon. There is nothing that balances teams out at all, it's purely random
frail silo
@frozen summit what are you talking about lol
Tiger 2 can easily be the best tier 8 heavy
Also is3s are easy to pen especially since they are a pike nose
You can't pen a tiger 2 unless you are a jp2 or fred with the top gun
You can side scrape and angle your armor in it and not get penned and also people struggle penning your turret
Unless they swtich to prammo but again the accuracy plays a factor here since what you can hit is the area around the gun
halcyon saddle
#buffthebatchat25t
molten crest
hello
unique scaffold
Hey. Give some buffs for A-20 cause it's a big shit.
compact nymph
- Please avoid using such words. Then, be constructive and suggest a buff in a domain or another (i.e. gun handling, mobility, armor...). It’s a T4 tank. You should get rid of it quickly. Plus the tank isn’t entirely bad, there are way worse tanks at it’s tier
distant river
Buff for the 140 any time soon? The only reason I've had to play it in the last 3 months has been it's birthday. The T62A does everything it does better, it just can't compete at all.
I would suggest taking it's reload down to 5 seconds flat (3700 dpm, 109 extra) to give it something unique and to differentiate it from the T62A
frozen summit
@viscid breach @vale sun @frail silo thank you very much for your answers, it put more light to h2p with tiger2, really some decent advice from you guys 😄
viscid breach
Always happy to help bud. Nice to see someone polite in the community lol
unique scaffold
I don't think wargaming's method for balancing tech-tree tanks is effective.
They need another method, since paper statistics are different from real-life observances.
Every update makes certain takes overpowered, and others useless.
slate arrow
Make this happen in blitz wg
vale sun
the e100 isn't nearly as bad in blitz as it is on PC
meager spruce
@slate arrow are you joking 😆 E100 just got buffed....
regal grove
I’m just wondering when people r playing do some of you immediately look at someone using a tank and think “this guy’s a joke” just from the tank they’re playing
Ex everytime I see a T23E3 I think “this guys bad” and it really happens
Or 85% of the time I see a Vk 72.01 they have an awareness of a rock
Like is it because the tank is bad or what
orchid grove
It's because good players know when a tank is hot garbage and usually avoid playing them
noble siren
HP is not equal to buff, it only matters tp tank like the autoloaders and tanks like Maus. For the other tanks it doesn't matter because they are getting farmed the same they got farmed before the update
@meager spruce what tank are u talking about, Maus?
meager spruce
@noble siren ah yes. 650 hp Is nOT a BuFF... at all. Sure mate, sure. If that is not a buff then what is it?
molten crest
heelo
frail silo
@regal grove VK 72 isn't bad lmao
formal bane
Give the su-101 a slight camo buff and a upped detectability
Like everyone deletes the thing the moment it's spotted and will always shoot the su-101 instead of the tank right next to them
slate arrow
@meager spruce e100 got buffed but so did the other heavies meaning its still weaker than other heavies. I prefer it to have same type of hp it had and give it an usable armor than having 650 hp more and every tank going trough turret without prammo. And now hori got released that has base pen of 310 e100 armor is only 250 and effective armor when fullly angled would be around 330-335 and side 335 meaning almost everything can go in without sweat and that only happens when angled perfectly. And now when hori got released e100 is useless. Mobility is bad traverse is okay depression is okay gun is awesome lower plate is huge and turret is useless only good thing about it is you cant get splashed with hesh at front.
meager spruce
@slate arrow so what you are saying is this. (For example) all tier 7 heavies receive 1000 Hp more and can dominate every single non-heavy tank with ease (for example AmX m4 45 can kill a Type 62 without giving damn) . According to you that does not count as buff "beCaUSe alL oThER heAvIEs goT BufFEd". seriously man.... cmon.
slate arrow
@meager spruce im talking about heavy to heavy and heavy to td perspective because usually meds fight meds and heavies get flanked. Meds should not be able to fight heavy frontally and e100 is very slow. And making an argument about tier 7 is irrelevant because tier x was weak not tier 7. Tier 7 doesnt need a buff but tier x did thats the difference. So dont be so ignorant. And amx m4 45 cant kill type 62 if he isnt braindead and knows how to play in a light. It doesnt mean its good. Why play e100 when you can play e4 for example hatch needs to be aimed and lower plate is small. Armor isnt better wdym. E100 has got hull armor but huge lower plate. But turret is so useless you might bounce if enemy is bot and you wiggle but other than that you are ez pen
orchid grove
E-100 isn't even bad bruh
formal vale
More like why even play an E4 when you can have 900 more HP and better armor?
@slate arrow wdym by the armor is worse? How in any way is the E4 better than the E100 when it comes to armor?
@slate arrow you struggle to use the E100's turret. I personally know how to use it effectively by angling it and wiggling. The turret is a non-issue, especially since the E4 has weak turret cheeks and a massive cupola. Did I also mention the E4 can be HE'd from the rear, easily tracked, and almost any shot from the side will pen.
@slate arrow again, you can go hull down in the E100 if you know what you're doing.
meager spruce
If you can't read tier 7 was an example, a random example at that to show that even though its a buff, you argue that "it is not a buff" and that it won't have any effect. Mate, its been only a day and the meta has already changed. If you don't believe me, go play tier 10 and see what the platoons are running. Also as Posit1ve said, E100 is bad. If you look in #devs-answers you will see that e100 is in the middle of the pack of heavies. (sorry it took so long, had to structure it)
slate arrow
@meager spruce im not arguing its bad. Im saying e100 got buffed so did the other heavies meaning when heavy goes against heavy its same as it was before @formal vale you get better gun and cheeks arent as bad as e100 not to mention you can hull down. You can but not as effectively with that lower plate. And if were talking about e4 having huge cupola and weak cheeks then talk about the e3 only thing it lacks is turret doesn't move but it will still crush e100 if it doesnt show lower plate
formal vale
@slate arrow Mate, we're talking about going hull down. How you think a valid argument is that the E100 has a lower plate weakness is beyond me when it's irrelevant due to the hull being hidden (thus the term "hull down").
Furthermore, like I said, you can angle the E100's turret to negate the cheek weak spots. You cannot do that in the E4 as it'll result in either exposing the side of the turret or making your cupola much easier to get shot.
karmic steeple
I’ve seen people use the e100 armor very effectively. A mistake lots of players make is sitting with the flat turret facing enemies for too long. That’s when you’re going to get penned. If you angle the turret right you’re basically invincible
What Christianman said
meager spruce
Then if that is the case, E100 will be in the middle of the heavy pack. However you are forgetting to notice that there are other tank types in this game that will struggle clearing the heavies a big HP pools (naming tier 9 tanks as well and some tier 10s like bat chat which will need 3 full clips to clear you so about a minute worth of reloading just to clear 1 tank. Yeah mate, seems balanced 👍
slate arrow
Bat chat needs a buff and should get 350 alpha talk about leo 1. Would you take wz113 or e100, would you take is7 or is4, would you take vk72 or maus. And when telling me that hull down means to not show your lower plate. Hiding e100 is harder than hiding e4 s hull meaning it isnt effective everytime. And you are still comparing lights against heavies when im comparing heavy against heavy or td. If not buff front give sides same mm of armor as maus and it will be able to angle effectively.And super heavies that are flat arent supposed to hull down but sidescrape like maus does unlike e100. I love e100 thats why im asking for a buff
meager spruce
Well since I have 2.5K battles in leo 1 i think I am qualified in saying that I struggle against Maus and E100 if they are angled or are wiggling because the tank doesn't have really good prammo. So yeah, what was the point in that? Also between IS7 and IS4 I would choose IS4. But between WZ 113 and E100 there is no winner because the tanks are so vastly different its impossible to judge them.
dense yoke
Give e100 all its 4 turret!!!!!
formal vale
@slate arrow Correct, the E100 is as big as a barn. You also have 900 more HP, a fully traversable turret, and better all-round armor. Someone who knows how to use that armor and conserve HP will do extremely well in the E100. The E4 has a weak hull, mediocre turret, and it can only rotate the turret 180°.
I think both have their positives and negatives. The E100's size and speed limit its capabilities, but the E4 has low HP, and mediocre armor at best. The E100 has fantastic armor, high HP, and great survivability. The E4 has decent speed, good penetration, and a semi-traversable turret (it's both a pro and a con).
But to say the E4 has better armor than the E100 is just absurd. Yes you can hide behind cover better, but you can also utilize that cover very well in the E100. Saying the E100 needs a buff is just plain stupid considering the tank literally just got 2700 HP.
@slate arrow I think you have a major misunderstanding of what a heavy is. It's not impenetrable from the front and by no means should be. No tank should be that way.
Oh so now you understand what angling and hiding the lower plate means, only when it supports your argument. I see. With that, I'm done with this conversation and your double standards.
slate arrow
E100 armor cant be called fantastic and med should not be able to pen heavy frontally even with prammo. Then whats the point of playing heavies when you can play meds and show turret only. Maus has way better armor than e100 and we only play it because of that gun and not armor. And making hp an argument then talk about maus's 3k hp and way better armor than e100. Plus maus can hide its lower plate without hull down or even sidescraping. All it needs is to angle. It should be impenetrable against meds and lights and maus can hide its lower plate easily but e100 cant is it too hard to understand? You need hard cover. You cant really hull down in it and without cover you cant hide it unlike maus.
I understood what angling and hiding lower plate was from a start but im saying e100 lower plate is huge compared to maus. Maus can hide lower plate from overangling while e100 kinda can. E100 should not be played hull down as its not effective. And mention that while e100 gets 2700 hp maus gets 3000
Tell me exactly where i didn't understand and what was your point.
Explain to me does maus have better armor than e100 or not. Does it have 300 more hp or not. Only thing e100 is better at is slight mobility and better higher alpha gun
meager spruce
there is no tank in the game that another tank of its tier can not pen frontally even with prammo so why should be introduce a specific tank like that for the most competitive tier (I am disregarding stock tanks). Also imagine giving a thumbs up to your own post xD
formal vale
@slate arrow Evidentially you didn't, because otherwise we would not be having this conversation.
unique scaffold
med should not be able to pen frontally even with prammo
Umm I don’t know I’m p sure that’s the point of prammo to ensure heavies aren’t completely noob friendly
slate arrow
Its a super heavy not a heavium. E100 needs a buff with vk72 and is7 maus cant rly be penned with prammo when angled. And i never asked for hp buff it was unnecessary.
Vk72 is plain trash worst dpm cant sidescrape cant hide lower turret cheeks, lower plate can still get penned by prammo and you cant hull down because it's rear mounted.
Give e100, is7 and vk72 a buff. They arent as close to being competitive as fv215b, is4, wz113, e5
unique scaffold
Did anybody ask or need the heavy buffs? Was anybody complaining that heavies need more hp?
I'm done with this game. Wargaming can't balance properly.
meager spruce
maus is a super heavy too. And VK72 is even a super heavy yet you can still pen them frontally with prammo.
dense yoke
i asked for a maus hp buff in my head. Some years ago. Didnt know it would be this fast
lunar niche
All the german superheavies are butter to gold rounds if they are not sidescraping.
slate arrow
People wont choose e100 over maus in tournament. They wont choose is7 over is4 and they wont choose vk72 either. Because they are slow and big. Thats why they need armor. Only reason badger works is it has almost impenetrable armor yet is so slow and has low alpha to exhange. Also you can hull down badger unlike is7, e100 and vk72 thats my point and it will stay like that until they get buffed
And why is that? Why should they not be competitive. If its a balance every tank should be able to be competitive
formal vale
People won't choose the E100 over the Maus because the E100 has a derpy gun and the Maus has more HP/armor. It simply doesn't fit in the competitive scene because it doesn't fulfill the need of a massive wall of HP and armor the same way the Maus does. There's no need for derp guns, so that makes sense.
The IS-4 is inherently better than the IS-7 because of its gun, not its armor. If the IS-7 had a more accurate gun with better DPM, it would be competitive, the armor is not the issue.
Same goes for the VK72. Its DPM and gun stats are unreliable, which means it won't be picked over the Maus, which has armor, decent DPM, and decent accuracy.
Does that mean that each of these tanks are weak? No. They're just not useful in the competitive scene. In pubs they work just fine because they don't have to fit into a certain line up.
unique scaffold
WHEEZE everyone literally chooses E3 over the badger they choose is4 over is7 for blatantly obvious reasons same thing with the vk 72
distant river
@slate arrow People dont use E100s in tournaments because they arent useful at all against good opponents. That does not mean they are bad tanks at all. Every tank does not need to fit into the tournament meta, they just need to be balanced. The E100 was fine how it was, and since the stupid hp buffs it needs to be returned to what it used to be, not buffed any further
slate arrow
Vk72 and is7 are weak, vk72 is slow and cant take positions and is7 traverse is pain ,they both cant rly hulldown because of rear mounted turret and lack of depression and they both cant sidescrape because of now side armor and pike nose. All e100 needs is a side turret armor and it will be monster.
And yes all of those tanks didnt need hp buff
Then go and stop wasting time on ignorant kid like me.
And i never said they were very weak was a problem or a critical situation i said that they need slight tweaks and buff to be perfectly balanced and used as they should be
formal vale
@slate arrow I swear you only think about things one dimensionally. You see one thing, ignore the broader context for why things are the way they are, and then think that it's a problem because "there's no explanation". The explanation is so incredibly self-evident, we are all surprised you're missing it. If you would just stop, take a look at what you're saying, take a look at what we're saying, and then consider the whole context for the things being said, you'll find that you're wasting your time and everyone else's time.
lusty condor
formal vale
@lusty condor you had all the time in the world to secure the kill on the M103. Had you gone for him rather than going for the Rhm (for damage I assume), you could have won the game
lusty condor
@formal vale no I didn't since caps
formal vale
Yes you did, there was 770 points by the time you were reloaded and could hit the M103. He killed the T49 because of the fact that you didn't want to take the shot, which took points way from your team and gave points to their team. You then put yourself in a crossfire between the RHM and M103 (who you neglected to kill).
Is it entirely your fault? No. Is it entirely your team's fault? No. Take responsibility for what you did and what you could have done better. That's the only way to improve in this game. Had you not been greedy and had just taken the shot on the M103, you, the WT, and the T49 could have easily cornered and killed the RHM in time.
unique scaffold
@noble siren Japanese. Jap is a racist term. It won't kill you to type out five more letters.
noble siren
@unique scaffold didn't know that 🤷♂️. Anyway I think that the new TDs are too armored and they need a little nerf touch on the armor.
mellow cape
New TDs seem fine to me, maybe even a little underwhelming
The tier 8 one though, is doo doo
acoustic shard
the armor on the t7 one can't be penned frontally by tier 6 meds. And plz nerf the tiger 2's frontal hull armor by 15m and it's frontal turret armor by 10mm.
noble siren
@mellow cape especially tier 7 seems to be underperforming, even too weak for tier 7 huh?
acoustic shard
increase the Wz blazes ammo capasity by 24 And drop it's reload by 1 second.
compact nymph
Interesting to see how everything changed in a single day. Now T10 is mostly back to 3 heavies 3 TD's and 1 med or light from what I played there
Edit: @acoustic shard what about stop asking for premium tanks buffs that are highly unlikely and maybe play some tech tree tanks instead?
jade cargoBOT
King David [KNELL]#3371 has been warned.
unique scaffold
If you can't say your piece without insulting someone don't bother saying it at all
jagged crescent
Did the engine accelerator equipment get buffed? I was driving my t110e5 and it was SMOOOVIN
flat bane
IMO, the HO-RI needs a armor or HP buff.
kindred python
I feel like the heavies need to be nerfed. The hp of the maus and others are too high and make them op. A JgE100 has to take a full minute of shooting at the maus to fully kill it (4 shots with AP and 5 with HEAT) and that’s without considering you bouncing of the maus and or it killing you before. The new company meta will be who can cap the bases first and who can hold them
flat bane
Yeah the 6.3k HP maus toons are anooying af
twin egret
shoot ammo rack
indigo knot
As long as anything reduces Atgm spam I am fine with it
dusky oxide
According to wg doctrine it seems only noob friendly tanks are allowed to stay op for a long period. Otherwise it creates a conception that good players dominate this game and the avg player loses hope.
hard sapphire
Kinda wish they added the secondary gun on the sheridan like the Derp or the normal LT one instead they replace it with a gun a majority of the player base hates... F
noble siren
Bruh at least reduce the armor on the gun ark, this is not a normal armor for something such a high pen
If the Ho-Ri can get crazy pen with enough armor, why shouldn't the fv183 can get such armor too even when its gun is enough trash?
idle kelp
odd sun
Balance:
Mauschen: 1800 hp
Maus: 3000 hp
plush trellis
@reef socket bruh did you really had to advertise that in ever single channel?
dense yoke
i think they will upgrade tier 9 and all tiers hit points.
full token
They are going to. They’ve said it too
distant river
They just didn't buff them at the same time as the tier 10s because that would make things balanced
molten crest
hello
turbid smelt
@distant river they didn't buff, because they want to see how top tier tanks would effect their tier and bottom one, according to that further changes would be made, just like they mentioned in 1 hour stream weeks ago before update
distant river
@turbid smelt It's pretty damn obvious how it's going to affect the gameplay, it's obvious that gameplay was going to, and now is going back to the boring 3 heavy 3 TD meta. It was a stupid change from the nice medium meta we had but hey it keeps the heavy players who sit in the open happy 🤷♀️
turbid smelt
@distant river meta change decisions really depends how you liked to play before, if you liking playing mediums then you won't like it
but I seriously can't understand why is that case, you get to farm more damage, while having better gun handling, dpm, mobility, view range and camo.
I like the update because heavies are not perishing infront of gold spam and able to reach strong/key positions in map.
regal grove
@noble siren Ho Ri and it’s line don’t need any nerfs they seem underwhelming enough
By the way you’re bottom tier Type 59 with one of the lowest pens of tier 8 mediums and ur going against a slopes TD I would be surprised if u can pen most of that 🤔
noble siren
@regal grove bruh, I can pen Jagtiger without any problem using gold, butI can pen Ho-Ri only in 2 pixels. Even when he did a slight hulldown, he should be pennable like the Jagtiger. These tanks seems to have more than enough troll armor in the front, for a gun that can go through my turret like a hot katana. At least the tier 8 can be penned with gold at some places. The tier 7 one blatantly OP, people doing 5k 4k damage even in high tiers. I just hope that their armor around the gun will be reduced to the poing being penned by gold ammo.
Only the tier 10 seems to be a balanced tank- not too armored not paper, the gun can get plus 1-2 sec reload, mobility is fine. The tier 8 is also well balanced. But the 7 and 9 are just...
unique scaffold
No. We don't need this to become WoT PC where you just load prammo and yolo pen everything. The tier 7 is no better than the Jagdpanther, in fact it is much slower. Stop shooting its front superstructure.
regal grove
- Cuz Jagdtiger’s bad and needs a buff
- The frontal armor is a trade off for its sides and rear to be penned by literally anyone like “a hot katana”
- Keep in mind that the tanks are gigantic- the tier 8 is almost the height and width of a Maus = easier to shoot
distant river
@turbid smelt This game is about movement not heavies sitting behind cover too scared to expose because they know that they can't do anything useful against 3k hp.
I get to perform better, but as I'm not selfish and I think about the games health, that doesn't matter. Unicums getting better games doesn't excuse the fact that heavies are now the best class to play, and they are also the easiest class to play so they will get spammed as much as the 3 heavy limit allows
All it does is just slow down battles when this is supposed to be a quick game, and it just rewards players for making mistakes.
@regal grove Jagtiger isn't bad at all and it really doesn't need the buff it's about to get
forest heath
I feel like the predator UM needs a slight penetration buff in my honest opinion. I have been playing it again lately and I have noticed that when uptiered the penetration even with apcr rounds is quite lacking as I struggle to penetrate most tier VIII heavies and tank destroyers
due to its very limited armor profile which is don’t get me wrong perfectly adequate for the job at tier VII and doesn’t really need a buff. But because of the aforementioned lacking penetration you are kinda obligated to get more up close in order to make you shots land and penetrate. Because I think that the predator can have a pretty good role as a mid-range sniper with a decent dpm when placed in tier VIII battles, and then switch over again to a frontline brawler in tier VII battles
turbid smelt
@distant river game is about team battle with tanks
there are other parameters in game which are equally as useful as mobility
Battles used to last 3 to 4 minutes
if you are in a heavy, you would spend a minute driving and other minute to notice how flanks are falling apart even though you are holding 3 tanks by yourself.
At least now battles last 4+ minutes
forest heath
On second thought the armor on the predator UM definitely needs a buff as well as a penetration buff
Players have to deal with the atrocious lack of gun depression limiting already where they can go on the map, increasing the frontal armor from 130 to 145mm and the penetration from 165mm to 170mm base AP also improve dispersion on the gun. I had to deal with missing 2 out of 3 shots missing completely from a stationary target
distant river
@turbid smelt the game is blitz, the game is about fast action packed games not heavies sitting there doing nothing except taking damage. Meds should be the best class to play, because the game should reward movement.
3 minutes of camping was long enough already, now it's just 4 or 5 minutes of camping because now meds are very hard to play well, so they are much more rare. There is absolutely no point whatsoever in making heavies this much better when they were already the easiest class to play.
Now there is only a reward for playing a med if you are a unicum, and that is definitely not balanced
turbid smelt
@distant river only super heavies got hp to sustain 3 more gold shells
other more mobile heavies only received 100 to 300 hp, which is like 1 extra hit
these heavies are much easier to penetrate with standard rounds than super heavies.
IS4
If mobile heavies received 500 hp and super heavies received 800 or 900 hp, only then maybe other tank classes would be irrelevant.
It is called WoT Blitz, not because every tank is supposed to be Dracula but because battles are faster than that of WoT, faster in getting into one and finishing one.
distant river
@turbid smelt 3 more pens is a long time. 1 more pen is a long time (them being easily penetrated is a joke, right?)
Look at normal battles, look at ratings, look everywhere and see how many heavies are being spammed and then tell me that they aren't dominating easily.
Meds are only relevant if you are a good enough player and those are extremely rare now.
It is supposed to be action packed, and having to farm 3k hp off one tank isn't action packed at all it's tedious and boring. Games are supposed to be fast and interesting not heavy spam
turbid smelt
@distant river heavy spam is here because players are let to believe heavies tanks would automatically give them a win
earlier you had to be unicorn in heavies to do good damage, that was completely fine isn't it?
I don't mind slight meta change.
you have no idea how much easier it is to farm damage right now, while players are spamming their heavies, it won't be as easy in weeks time as most player base would understand 300 more hp is not going to push them from 48% to 70% in any way
distant river
Heavy spam is there because heavies give people the best chance of winning, because as a class the are the easiest to play. Since the buff, heavies are not only easier to play than meds but they are better as well, so there is no reason to play a med, and so all sense of action is completely lost.
You never had to be a unicum to do well in heavies, they are the easiest class to play.
It isn't a slight change at all, it's gone from 2-3 meds, 1-2 heavies, 1-2 TDs and maybe a light back to the 3 heavy 3 TD spam we used to have. In ratings it's even worse because there's no 3 heavy limit, so games with over 10 heavies aren't rare.
People will still be spamming heavies in 3 weeks time (possibly even more when they grind new heavy lines because they can see how good they are, and because not all of the playerbase reacts instantly to a change from a nice meta to this awful thing we have), and they will still be spamming them as much until they get nerfed.
I completely understand how much easier it is to farm damage I've got a couple of new HoF games since the update, but that doesn't mean it is good for the game. Try looking beyond "I can do better so it is a good change" to see that actually it ruins games for almost everyone else and is a stupid change.
turbid smelt
@distant river yeah of course 300 more hp is going to make heavies life so much easier and completely beat tds in terms of ease in gameplay, clearly spawn camping is so much harder than rolling into fire, taking hits for team, bouncing shells and find proper time to hit back (just so you don't loose too much hp).
maybe you are over thinking and making situations exaggeratedly worse in your head
this much hate wasn't even received when old mediums (which were pretty much gawds) in tier x were brought down to ground and heavies became relevant again.
lunar niche
There's nothing fun about 5-6 medium tanks rushing another 5-6 medium tanks in tier X.
distant river
300 more hp is one more penetration, which is a solid amount of time. People spawn camp in heavies all the time, just heavies have the armour so their mistakes aren't punished anywhere near as much. And that is playing a heavy well, not playing a heavy and doing maybe 2k dmg which is what is an adequate game is for most people.
How? People aren't going to move away from heavies, and more people are going to move towards them so the problem just gets worse.
Heavies were fine how they were, individuals could have used a very small buff, and others could have used a nerf, they did not need a big blanket buff. @turbid smelt
@lunar niche What about it isn't fun? It's movement and action, it's a lot closer to what the game should be like. It's a lot more fun than 5-6 heavies ever so slowly trading down their 3k hp, and if you don't think that the WoT PC is right there for you to go and camp in.
lunar niche
@distant river 5-6 heavies trading away their 3k HP is still more fun than a 2 minute yolo rushing dpm match.
Or you could ask WG to remove all heavies and tds. Then you can have your 2 minute match of medium tanks only match.
I play WOT PC too and medium tanks with 300 mm turret armor flinging 330 HEAT shells still farms.
distant river
Why on earth is it more fun to have to rely on just waiting in a better position and getting lucky pens than it is to actually have to use skill and your brain to win? Why do you actually play this game at all if all you want is just sit and point and click? There are many different games where that is the point of the game instead of trying to make this horrifically boring as well. @lunar niche
unique scaffold
anybody else think the T-34 85 Rudy could use a penetration buff?
hollow ledge
@unique scaffold no because the DPM is very high. It’s a balancing factor
lunar niche
@distant river Running around, pointing and clicking till either one dies. Thats medium tank gameplay when there are 8-12 meds in a match. If you find heavies in game boring, there are other games for you as well, not just for me.
distant river
Running around requires intelligence and constant reactions and quick thoughts. It is actually challenging rather than just playing mindlessly sitting in one position. Games with heavies are not boring, unless there are too many of them (3 is normally too many depending on how mobile they are). This game is based around action and fast gameplay not heavy spam, so this is the game for me and apparently not the game for you.
And you didn't answer why you played this game @lunar niche
lunar niche
@distant river Never in any gameplay have i ever seen a medium running around constantly, not even Leopard 1. They are either hulldown or snapshotting from hard cover and shooting from flanks.
Yes, too many vehicle class of same type in a match is boring but is it the vehicle class fault? People choose and play the tank class of their liking, and it so happens to be heavy. IRC WG did implement vehicle class limit but it required more people online so as to not take too long to find a match. Not sure if it was Rating battles only.
6-8 mediums in a match will be over in under 3 minutes unless they start sitting in one place and start trading shots from cover.
Your medium dominent meta will never be constantly running around with quick thoughts and reactions. It will be a yolo rush and whoever has the best dpm/armor will usually win.
We already saw that with the american lights. There was no constant running around, we straight up rushed and killed the enemy meds/atgms before the heavies even arrived.
noble siren
Since when med gameplay is intense? I'm gonna explain the med meta we had before the update. 4 tanks in each team with bouncy turrets camping the same hill until one of them dies so the others can rush. Do you think that this meta needs skill @distant river?
One of the reasons people to hate Sheridan is that it has ATGMs which prevents camping hills and certain points of the map. For example if you camp a hill in STB and start doing ur INTENSE gameplay, I can go and hit you with ATGM forcing you to get cover, which people cried about a lot. They still cry about it because they don't know how to counter it but you get the point.
molten crest
good bye all
formal vale
"Camping Hills"
I think you mean being hull down, something every tank has to do at some point, regardless of how effective it is.
Camping entails sitting in one spot regardless of whether you have shots. Actively contesting a position and forcing people to move is a basic game mechanic for any game ever.
At least for me, whenever I contest a position, I analyze whether I can hold, attack, or move up. If I have to run away, I do so. If I can attack, I'll do so carefully. If I can hold out and let my team take care of it, I'll do so. If I can move up to a new position, I'll do so. This is, in no way, a form of camping. I'm hull down, contesting a position, keeping the enemy from taking an advantageous position against my team.
With heavies, the gameplay is similar but different to medium tank gameplay in the sense that you cannot simply run away. It's more centered on fight or defend rather than relocating. You can hold a position and be more aggressive in a heavy, but you cannot out position a medium tank that knows what he/she is doing. They can engage and disengage whenever things look bleak.
That's why I like medium tanks, they allow you do control the engagement through your mobility. It promotes more active thinking and dynamic gameplay. It rewards people for thinking outside the box.
Does that mean HTs cannot think outside the box? No, they just do so differently. Taking abnormal routes, finding new positions, predicting enemy movement and reacting accordingly all allow heavies to perform well. I just prefer mediums.
@noble siren
distant river
@lunar niche Constant reactions isn't constant running around.
Heavies are too easy to play and are now too effective, so they are chosen to be played much more because people tend to wards easier things. There is a limit of 3 heavies per team which is almost constantly met now.
Did you ever play a game last update? Did you see how it wasn't just a mad yolo every game, there was actual flanking and holding positions at the same time?
@noble siren Since when is med gameplay not intense lol you really don't know what camping a hill means. The current meta doesn't need skill at all, it just needs a maus platoon. The previous meta with a balance of tanks weighted towards meds slightly did need skill, and that's why every noob complained about it.
stoic pebble
Med gameplay imo is way more passive than heavy gameplay. I don't want to rush an enemy until I am certain that I can kill them without sacrificing an unnecessary amount of HP. I only flank when I know that there are no tanks that can shoot me or have the HP to yolo me. Most of my medium matches are sitting back and shooting people that aren't looking, reloading, or are dumb.
For some reason, every match which I have played so far this update, there are still far more mediums and lights (especially missile tanks) than T10 heavies and heavies in general. It might just be RU server, but I haven't really seen heavies doing anything more substantial recently besides the IS-4 being even more annoying to deal with.
noble siren
The mixed meta is more intense than the med meta. I prefer 3x heavy, 2x med, 2x Td meta than 5-6x meds and lights and 2-1x Td. Before it was who will has the med with armor turret sniping in hulldown from a hill. This is not intense...
lunar niche
@distant river Actual flanking was when heavies were more in number and also because of TD in the back. When there was 2 heavies on each side, it was straight up yolo rush with heavies nothing more than xp pinata. Heavies are effective when they are played to their effectiveness, let a noob drive a heavy with 5k HP and he will still get farmed.
distant river
@noble siren 3xheavy in every game is not mixed, and when you look at ratings without the tank limit then the idea that this meta is mixed is just a joke. Meds have a lot more variety and can do a lot more things, and so more of them makes game more interesting. And you realise that things other than hulldown meds exist and were played a lot, right? Also you still don't really know how to use the word sniping but hey
@lunar niche You really don't have a clue how the game worked do you? Heavies were still viable, they just weren't as effective as meds because of the limit on their speed. That is how it is supposed to be. Now heavies are the most effective class and the easiest to play, there is no incentive at all to play meds unless you are a unicum. Heavies will always be effective because they are so forgiving to play, the noob will do much much better in a 5k hp heavy then in a 5k hp med. What heavies shouldn't be is outright better than meds, unless you are a very good player who can use meds very well. If they are outclassing everything else then you just get heavy spam which is boring and painful to deal with, like we have now.
@stoic pebble It is definitely not the same on EU, almost all rating games are 4 or 5 heavies and random games are almost always 3 heavies, 2 at the minimum. And if you are playing meds passively then you are doing something fairly wrong
noble siren
The heavies buff was a good change. If you are good you will make a good use of the additional 100-500hp buff, if you are bot you will lose them as usual. It's not that tragic change like the autoloader the Foch155 got or the consumables.
dense talon
ofc its 3x heavy in every team now as they got buffed only yesterday..... the extra hp really isnt a problem as @noble siren states.
Lol. Ive aced all tier 9 german heavies today. Yes, i have, and as hans said before, its free damage when noobies control them. Which is the case 9/10 times, lets be real here. Idk how high you are in ratings, but at 5k players still rule in meds or heaviums over superheavies, of which the latter is the only with some real big hp pool. @distant river
distant river
@noble siren So you are saying that having 5 heavies per team is perfectly fine? I think you need to take a break from this channel to think about what is good for the game
@dense talon And it's ok to have 3 heavies per team because...? The extra hp is what made heavies be spammed which is a huge problem, and have you ever played against a 3.2k hp maus at all, let alone in a tier 9?
noble siren
@distant river so why having 5 meds per team is fine, but 5 heavies (which never happend) is not?
unique scaffold
But please fix the progetto nothing about it is good and it only has slopes sadly
regal grove
I dunno bruthers the heavy buff was well needed; the meds even in high level comp were doing he hardest jobs while the heavies typically act as deterrents and the brute force rather than game changers or turnovers
Also from my experience mediums have speed = more interaction and control over map
Now that heavies have an obvious hp advantage super heavies like E100, Maus, and weird kid 72.01 are much more viable
Like bruh before the fastest heavies were most viable like IS-4 bc they’re fast, but now the obvious hp advantage makes people see heavies as an actual meat shield rather than big thonk
frail silo
@distant river what i am getting from what you are saying is
you want a medium to outclass a heavy easily
and possibly tear it apart because of its slowness and how big it is
forest heath
This is what frustrates the most about the armor profile of the predator UM those vision ports that every single tank can shoot at when up close it cannot fire back while everyone even tier VI light tanks can pen that even from range, it was bad enough to have the flat lower plate already and I would be able to live with it if the angled armor was even useful. Coupled with the fact that this is has the Lowest AP penetration out of any of the Tier VII heavy tanks and being super tall with no gun depression. It also is very sluggish and doesn’t get fast to places so it’s easy to just circle it to death or face hug it
twin egret
It's anime tank what u expect
unique scaffold
It’s not from anime to be fair it’s from a completely different universe/story that is known for having terribly designed vehicles if put in practical terms basically they look cool but aren’t
mellow cape
It isnt even a proper tank from the universe its in, proper tanks in that universe would be way too OP
crystal spoke
Isn't it more of an apc?
drifting depot
Yep, that's why it's so big aaand originally it was a ps3 videogame the anime came later
unique scaffold
Does no one look it up or something
primal garnet
Ok?
bold helm
Buff American Tier 8 T28 please
dense talon
People have been asking for that since forever lol but wg ignoring the poor t28. :(
molten crest
hello people
distant river
@noble siren 5 meds was extremely uncommon and because of a new line people were spamming, but meds have the most variety and the most different and interesting playstyles, so having lots of them doesn't make games boring. Heavies are very similar to each other, and the playstyle is painful to watch especially in great numbers. And 5 heavies does happen in ratings, 6 isnt uncommon too
@frail silo A good player in a medium should do better than in a heavy. A bad player should do better in a heavy. This is how it used to be. Now there is no reason to play a med unless you are an amazing player, which is a very small proportion of the playerbase.
@regal grove Heavies were viable, and they were easy to play at the same time. Now meds cannot compete unless the driver is very good. The buff was completely unnecessary, heavies had their role which they could do well enough, and so did meds. Now heavies are way too good especially compared to meds.
noble siren
@distant river LMAO xD. That's what you think. You think med playstyle is intense, I think heavy playstyle is intense. There is a reason heavies to be buffed with 100-500 more hp. If you are an "amazing player" you should not have any problem penning a heavy tank 2 more times. But I highly doubt this because you can't stop ranting about "how OP the heavies have became and now they are hard to be taken out".
karmic steeple
They didn’t change anything but health just shoot a couple more times. I’m enjoying my average damage being pushed
regal grove
Tell me why Maus seemed to phase out completely out of comp over time. Even though it had the most hp and arguably the best armor, it wasn’t needed at all. Why? Cuz IS-4’s are faster. T110E5’s are faster. 113’s are faster. They act as pseudo-mediums with more armor.
In the end, mediums still have a higher skill ceiling than heavies. Heavies just had their skill floor dropped, but that doesn’t mean it necessarily went higher WHICH MEANS that a good player won’t absolutely dominate in a heavy tank if he can’t dominate in a medium tank and vice versa.
Edit: as @unique scaffold said below, this update didn’t lead to a gigantic influx of heavy users. Rather, all the classes are balancing each other out. Others may see an influx of TD’s to “farm” off heavies, an influx of mediums and lights to farm exp from assist damage, etc.
Something like an HP buff is not game breaking. Rather, it leads to a greater interaction among all 4 classes.
unique scaffold
After playing for quite a bit today, what I have seen is there are usually about 2-3 heavies in every team per match, but what i see more of now is the amount of TDs that are in battles right now, people seem to try to farm off the Heavies and not spam them, and that’s intelligent, because after all, this HP is not that gamebreaking. Again, from my experience.
drifting depot
Brev come on man all you gotta do is shoot 1 or 2 more times its not that hard, come on I know you can do it don't be lazy
mellow cape
I hate that people are spamming TDs now, the TD meta was the worst one, even worse than heavies and comps now are just pure heavy spam
meager spruce
@mellow cape people are spamming Tds because they are the only thing that can chew through the HP of the heavies now.
karmic steeple
My meds seem to be doing fine
autumn zodiac
It's been a few days, wait longer and meds won't be doing so hot
frozen summit
ive got a question? does tiger 2 has the best pen from all tier8 ?
crystal spoke
No
meager spruce
BL 10 cough cough
hollow ledge
The Blyat-10
frozen summit
oh but thats tank destroyer but seems like tiger 2 is best from heavy tanks isn't it?
hollow ledge
@frozen summit All tier 8s is different from all tier 8 heavies, but anyways the T34/M6A2E1 EXP have the highest pen out of all tier 8 heavies
distant river
@noble siren Again you are assuming completely incorrectly that i have any issue taking out heavies. You assume that I am doing this for my benefit and not for the benefit of the game as a whole, which is obviously wrong. And what about sitting in one position waiting for the enemy to expose too much is intense? That is what heavy gameplay is, its static and boring. And if you are trying to imply that I'm a bad player than maybe think again
noble siren
You think you are correct, I think I'm correct. I don't play heavy tanks as you describe how everyone play them. You think this is unhealthy, I think it's healthy.
distant river
Agin you are completely focusing on you, not the wider playerbase. Heavies are only as agressive as the user forces them to be and the average player does not do that at all. Good players are rare in this game, and average players in heavies make games boring
hushed breach
Who thinks match making is not balanced ?
dusky cedar
Can you make all the tanks’ research line simple like new Japanese tds’ and remove useless modules from other lines?
regal grove
I’m a medium and TD main yet I think the heavy buff is fine, so seems like quite a few others in this channel
@dusky cedar dIvERsiFIcaTiOn
2. @dusky cedar I know there’s no point for them to exist for most of the modules but it’s what WG claims as a learning experience and a possible “alternative” to use on tanks
dusky cedar
In this line, I feel like research xp cost for top gun and engine should be half of what it is.
Top engine really doesn’t add up anything in performance and while top gun has significant improvement, there’s already a similar tier 9 gun which gives learning exp. on what tier 10 be played like.
Also, non of this tier 9’s modules are used in other lines of this country.
In total, I would have to grind 450k exp to get the tier 10.
queen hemlock
For M103 top gun , just keep grinding for E5 as it automatically unlocks the top gun @dusky cedar
You can yourself 60k
heady moat
Buff e100
formal vale
@heady moat no lmao
heady moat
He has a weak turret,need buff
formal vale
Or just angle. Problem solved. @heady moat
dense yoke
or remove it problem solved
jagged crescent
The E100 literally just got buffed. Git gud loser
bold helm
Daily reminder to Buff American Tier 8 T28 please
drifting depot
Maybe take care of those wonky angles on the grille? cough cough front is bs and sides take away a lot of elevation
turbid smelt
@drifting depot yeah
front has 4° and at max gun arc you get 8° of gun depression
gun doesn't smoothly transition from 4 to 8°
it goes 4° then 6° then 8° at very edge
gun also has pretty large dispersion while turning tracks and turrent
something like Obj 268 or Foch 155 don't even get high dispersion while doing 50kmph with that armour and they also get better camo rating.
Foch 155 even have better mobility
noble siren
Can T57 get some mobility buff, feels prettt slow for something without that much armor. 5km/h more speed on forward and reverse.
twin egret
didn't it just get an HP buff? aren't you satisfied enough?
formal vale
@noble siren 1200 damage burst and a decent turret means it doesnt need much armor. It's not supposed to take hits as much as other heavies but rather deal damage and provide support.
noble siren
@formal vale in times like this support for who? I always end up with 4k damage and my teammates highest damage is 1500. I perfectly know its role on the battlefield but with the noobs at high tiers it's just hard to play with this tank. It's just team dependable.
I think that a slight mobility buff would help me to change position faster so I can survive longer. Cause in battles I go second line, the bots in my team get farmed for 15 seconds. And I don't even have a chance to recover my position. And your average burst is 1000-1100.
@twin egret yes the HP buff was good but in my opinion not need, mobility buff was going to be 10 times better.
twin egret
Even I said it needs a speed buff
formal vale
@noble siren for one, the burst damage on average is 1200. Each shot you fire averages 400 damage and 3×400=1200.
Secondly, the tank you seek already exists in the form of the 50B. It's faster and has better gun depression, but it sacrifices its burst speed and turret armor.
drifting depot
It is a good heavy but the speed is yikes, and Welp there's 1 thing that dismisses anything saying something like it's not meant to be fast cause it's a support tank:
Amx 50 b exists
twin egret
I propose the Bat Chat could receive it's historic reverse speed of (as to make it unique since not many tanks have that fast of a reverse speed), an additional shell(s) in its magazine, a shorten inter-clip reload, or an Alpha Damage Buff. Maybe a combination of 2, 3, or all.
drifting depot
Just give it 350 alpha and some acceleration, done!
queen hemlock
Grille 15 will need som TLC too in the new meta
Camo buff, gun depression maybe and possible a little quicker aim time and dispersion. I can live with the armour being non-existent so it will remain an absolute sniper. But then you do needmore traits to be an effective sniper
compact nymph
What I’d like for the Grille is a fully traversable turret. Having both a turret arc of 50 degrees on each side and a mere 31 degrees of traverse while the Waffle gets a fully traversable turret and up to 51 degrees and a half of hull traverse feels like a downgrade when going from the tier 9 to the tier 10. Not to mention the Waffle’s better camo, better gun depression, and even way better gun bloom (0,18 when moving and 0.18 when rotating, compared to 0,26 on the move and 0,3 when rotating for the Grille) wich feels quite ironical considering the so-called Grille’s mobile « sniper » role. Either buff the Grille, or give the WT aud Pz IV some buffs and simply swap the 2 tanks.
turbid smelt
well grille has best in class aim time, it would be better if grille could be more flexible and mobile
camo is bad but after buff it can be used in bushes atleast
Foch 155 has better mobility whilst boasting armour, slightly lower dpm, low gun bloom and camo
let's not mention 268 here
Like definitely tank with firepower, mobility and armour needs camo 🤨
At the moment Grille feels like a unloved tier9 cousin of wut auf pz 4
frail silo
i mean was it even broken before it got its speed nerfed
charred dagger
hey what about buff bc its trash now bcs of sheridan in game
crimson cosmos
The poor old Grille is weak in too many ways to list. But primarily it’s the gun and camo. Accuracy is meh. Pen is almost okay. Dispersion is awful if you have turn either the turret or the hull. And gods help you if you do both. And with camo... There are heavies with better camo. 🤦♂️
left wigeon
Why does this T92E1 tank and Sheridan have to ruin tier 9/10? They either need to be completely removed or have the (censored) nerfed out of them. The game winner is literally dependent on who has the best light tanks. NERF T92E1. They literally ruin the game imho. I don’t even like playing tier 8, 9 or 10 anymore.
full token
They are nerfing the tank next update
sturdy fractal
@formal vale wdym the T57 has no turret armour, whenever you go hulldown you get penned and when i see one you can always pen its turret
molten crest
hello
turbid smelt
@left wigeon that is not true...
@left wigeon he is one of the YouTubers who didn't research before posting their first video about tank
he didn't even help in balancing tank
you don't watch Bushka for info, you watch for humorous commentary
left wigeon
@turbid smelt It kinda is. Even bushka on blitz thinks they are...
formal vale
@sturdy fractal I said decent turret armor. Hans was saying it needed more, not me.
noble siren
@left wigeon and with what Sheridan is OP? Except the good mobility...
turbid smelt
@noble siren its mobility over compensates for bad dpm on apcr... ngl
karmic steeple
^
And the t92 shouldn’t be able to bounce some of the shells it does
left wigeon
@noble siren Sheridan isn’t as op, but the missiles can be annoying sometimes. Not as bad as T92E1.
turbid smelt
@karmic steeple well T92 is receiving another nuff
jade cargoBOT
bribri#9376 has been warned.
orchid grove
At this point, when heavies have more HP than their PC counterparts, (and even meds too because of the HP equipment), there's really no reason for Blitz autoloaders not to have PC clip sizes anymore.
Like Bat Chat honestly at this point ought to be 5*350, and T57 and AMX 50b should be 4*400
@queen hemlock It was too much because games were shorter than PC, but now that there's so much HP in Blitz, games are longer and slower. And you gotta keep in mind right now that it literally takes 3 clips from a T57 or a 50B to kill a heavy tank. Bat Chat needs 4, and even 5 to kill something like a Maus if it loads HEAT, and a reload time of 30s for a 50B with 4 shells would be just 2461 base DPM, which is very reasonable (even on the low side if anything), heck the reload could be even 27s and still give the tank reasonable DPM. Even a Bat chat with 5 shells and 350 alpha could have a 30s reload and still only have 2500 base DPM. And considering that tanks like AMX 50 120 and IS-3 Defender already have 25s base reloads, something up to 30s isn't even that unreasonable.
The reload times wouldn't actually be that extreme, so there's literally no reason not to.
queen hemlock
There is still reason for that @orchid grove as it will make autoloaders even stronger than they are now. WG have explained how any clip reload longer than 30 to 35 seconds is a bit too much for Blitz.
formal vale
@orchid grove games dont drag on from what I've seen. They go roughly the same pace or maybe a little longer. Keep in mind that games tend to last something like 3 to 4 minutes. If it takes another 30 seconds to end the battle, that's not very long.
Matches on PC have 15 total minutes and 30 tanks to burn through. On average those matches will last 5-7 minutes. It makes sense in that context to give things much more hit or miss guns, where people have the time and the team mates to reload for a long time.
In Blitz, the Batchat is great from what I find. It's simply overshadowed by the Sheridan, which we all know is broken. That doesnt mean that the Batchat needs major clip changes.
The same goes for the 50B and T57. 1200 HP is still massive in the context of every other tank classes' HP pool. Changing the clip size and damage for the sake of one tank class will only make other classes suffer.
orchid grove
@formal vale PC matches being longer has very little to do with 15v15 (which does make logical sense. Sure there's twice the HP to burn through, but also twice the guns), and everything to do with the fact that PC maps are larger, so more time is spent traversing the map. And PC reloads are still longer than they would be on Blitz, like 38s on the Bat, when on Blitz it could just be 30s.
As for Blitz, you're clearly delusional. You've literally played the Bat Chat 6 times in the last 3 months, and 0 times in the last 30 days, hardly enough to draw any conclusions, and you literally averaged ~600 less DPB than any of your other tanks for the last 90 days. This is not to mention the fact that even over your career, your Bat is your lowest DPB tank. Take it from the guy who has over 4500 battles in the Bat, that it is just completely uncompetitive right now, Sheridan or not. And again, let me stress to you that if you're trying to kill just one Maus, you literally need 5 clips to kill one after HEAT and bounces are factored in.
As for 50B and T57, 1200 is actually not all that massive. Why? Because it's an autoloader and not a single shot; they don't deal 1200 instantly. It takes time to do that damage, and that means long exposure times as well, and you're not going to pen every shot all the time, and you're going to have to load gold too. Moreover, again, you still literally need to reload twice to kill a heavy tank, which is just absurd. And if you compare it to other classes, if 1200 in 6s really all that much when a 121 does 840 in 7.6s? Or when an Obj 268 does 1280 in 12s? And remember that single shooters don't have long periods of vulnerability either, and also more armor to boot.
Also, the argument that "changing something for the sake of one class will only make others suffer" at this point is clearly a moot argument when these heavies buffs now exist.
nocturne mauve
Honestly you cannot just believe YouTubers because of what they say
mellow cape
Hey at least the heavy buff makes for good 7 maus teams in tournaments now
formal vale
@orchid grove You know why my DBG in the batchat is low? Because I don't play for damage in the Batchat. If I wanted to farm damage, I wouldn't be playing that tank. It's meant to be opportunistic in its damage, not a straight up damage dealer. Saying that it takes 5 clips to down an entire Maus ignores the context of a battle and is irrelevant to this discussion. And guess what, I'm successful in the way I play it. 67% wins over 450 battles is perfectly fine.
Am I better than you in the Batchat? Hell no. Did I say I was? Hell no. What I'm saying is that it doesn't need the clip changes that you're proposing. You're clearly successful in the tank as it is, and any changes to that would make it OP. I don't understand why you cannot see that. Just because you have good statistics in a tank doesn't mean you have good ideas on what should be done to it and other tanks like it.
Adding more shells to the tank would, in my opinion, ruin the tank's gameplay. That is an opportunistic scout that does damage if it can. I often have cover near me so that when I dump some shells out, I can hide to reload, even if I haven't used all of my shells. As a result, I prefer my clip reload to be short, so I can dump more into the next target and repeat the process. The same goes for the T57 Heavy and AMX 50B. A 20s reload keeps the battle going much more quickly, all in exchange for being able to take out 60% of the average medium's hit points. That's a fair and well balanced mechanic.
Look at the Kranvagn on PC. They recently reduced the number of shells in the clip to 3 (from 4), reduced the reload to ~23 seconds with 3s intrashell reload, and upped the damage per shot to 440 (from 400). This change has been received overwhelmingly positively from the WoTPC community.
And finally, I liked these heavy buffs. They brought heavies back into the spotlight. This coming from a predominantly medium tank player btw. Meds can now farm more and heavies can survive for longer.
dense talon
Still fighting for a vk 72 buff. :) front hull so tds have mores struggle penning it and side armor behind the tracks. No use in 160 side armor stroke if armor behind tracks is only 100 mm as you'll be penned there countless of times anyways.
jagged helm
TD are supposed to pen everything in front without much problems
regal grove
T57 and 50B are fine as is; it only needs minor adjustments...
But I do agree batchat is a complete joke - it literally needs like a 1.5 intraclip just to make it balanced lmao
formal vale
Changing the intrashell reload is fine imo. 2.5 seconds would be very nice.
It's just the addition of more shells that I think would be stupid.
bold helm
Daily reminder to Buff American Tier 8 T28 please
unique scaffold
Lol
regal grove
You might wanna look at AT15 or something first
raw glen
Smasher needs a buff
neon basin
JOKE
raw glen
Smasher needs pre nerf missiles to be balanced
queen hemlock
@bold helm stating that once per day is enough
unique scaffold
In my opinion, for several reasons, Smasher needs another nerf, while Kpfpz 70 should replace the normal HEAT with ATGM. T92E1 and Sheridan already have 10° gun depression, crazy mobility, and troll turret armor. Kpfpz 70 has only the last one, despite having, both in reality and in game, the same (but updated and more modern) gun of Sheridan. Reminding this every now and then shouldn't offend anyone. I hope WG will consider this anyway
full token
I haven’t found the Sheridan turret to be troll. It’s mostly the hull. Turret feels more like the T49 turret.
distant river
@unique scaffold So after realising that you have no reason to ask for ATGMs for the kpf, you still ask for them? That isn't a very smart thing to do
neon basin
@unique scaffold people who have smasher buy it using real money, i dont think WG would nerf it
queen hemlock
@full token the Sheridan hull isn't troll. It's jut completely clad in spaced armour so shooting HE or HEAT will just explode and do only splash damage
neon basin
Sheridan is supposed to float on water martin, and can be airdropped👌
full token
Well the ap ‘misses’ people get where they shoot at the ‘hull’ they see but it goes through without damage, I meant that. And some of the random blocks people report having even when they fire at the center of the hull. The turret seems weak to me, without any troll bounces other than the gun. It’d be the hull that I would expect to randomly block/bounce a shot rather than the turret
distant river
It is hilarious to see people rage when you play the sheridan and sidescrape just showing the back corner of your hull (all spaced armour) and reds blindly shoot it because they don't know how the game works at all. It shouldn't be possible to do because the sheridans whole armour should be a hit box but I doubt that's going to change soon
queen hemlock
The whole armour is a hit box. It's just spaced all around 
neon basin
Yes, i got shot by a deathstar and it only give 256 dmg
unique scaffold
Because thats how the spaced armor works
unique scaffold
😆
noble siren
Bruh B-C (tier 10) has an one of the best troll armor, but you still think Sheridan has one. For such bug target it's kinda reasonable to have that good mobility. Turret armor is not even near troll, it's actually HE pennable. The 10° gun depression is useful only when the enemies are not looking at you cause most of the time is free pen. The tank is just simply skill rewarding, if you are good and understand how the game works you will be rewarded with super performance, if you are bad you, you will be bad with this tank.
KpfPz won't receive ATGM as gold ammo cause it's already good enough. The ATGM system received enough hate from the community so there is no reason to put it on another tank. With the super strong armor KpfPz has it will become simple broken OP.
unique scaffold
Maybe, or maybe not, only WG will tell, and only the front of the turret is super strong (with 2 BIG weak spots, to be true), chassis is paper. With 6° of gun depression the tank can't even be used for hulldown, or only in some circumstances. But ok, we'll see if something happens
full token
Kpf has a paper hull?? What
acoustic shard
The kpf won't be op with a missile. It won't change any of the tanks overly abundant downside's but just give it another up side. And Buff the Vindicatore gun depression to -5 it's prem Heat pen to 250 and it's He pen to 88. Ither that Or make a new prem TD with those attribute's
turbid smelt
@acoustic shard wudnt gun wood hit spaced armoured at 4° of gun depression?
acoustic shard
The tanks look could be altered to accomodate -5. It's not as if WG doesn't have a team of animaters more then good enough to do a small remodeling. But if not -4 would work allot better then -2
turbid smelt
I played wz 120, which has 4° of undepressing depression and I have no Idea how bad 2° is
oh wait I played su 100m1, no no no I don't want to remember
acoustic shard
yea that thing is a nightmare
noble siren
Can Maus get ATGM cause this tank is pretty weak
autumn zodiac
Dude, it's ridiculously strong right now
noble siren
And can the Japanese TDs from 8-10 get HP buff cause having 1100 hp at tier 8 is a cruel joke
distant river
- looks at wz 120 ft * hmm yes 1100 hp is way too low lets buff it
formal vale
It's almost as if TDs are supposed to have the lowest HP pool for their tier 🤔
unique scaffold
@noble siren ignoring the ironic comment, and getting real, Maus can't have missiles unless you want probably V2 (I think you will have a problem fitting them in Maus gun yes?) But Kpfpz 70 can have ATGM, since it mounts an appropriate gun for them (and actually launched them), the XM150E5 model, so it's not a pointless idea. Funny the other comments, I am laughing as much as Lurch of the Addams family. And, as I repeated already many times, I proposed this idea, you won't like it, but neither of us can do anything about it, only WG, we like it or not 😉
How long should it take for people to realize that missiles have no place whatsoever in this game, can’t u see for yourself how easy it is to get shots in? It literally is a bad joke from WG.. @unique scaffold i kind of keep saying i want all of them removed.. but yeah i see what u coming from
noble siren
Can't see why Maus can't get ATGM ammo too, it's a game after all and it all depends on WG what will decide. The idea is not pointless cause we already have fantasy tanks.
unique scaffold
@unique scaffold for coherence, if T92E1 and Sheridan have missiles, Kpfpz should have them too, since it literally mounts the same but updated gun. If WG removes missiles, no tanks will have them, then no problem. @noble siren Slow as it is in moving and turning around both chassis and turret, probably missiles on Maus are more of a problem than an actual good weapon, but ok, if you like it. You can always suggest that to WG, then WG decides about it too 😅
unique scaffold
Good god do not go with this again the kpz 70 shouldn’t even be in the game period because it already breaks two of wargamings rules for implementing tanks one. It fired APFSDS it never shot APDS two it’s a smoothbore not a rifled gun like sheridans
@unique scaffold then the concept can be stretched a bit, it's not a new thing here in Blitz. Too bad Kpfpz is in game already, so make it complete, or WG can remove totally the ATGM thing. Choices aren't lacking
odd sun
This has got to be the smallest lower front plate ever lol. Very hard to hit even close range.
New Japan TD tier 9
flat bane
20k more EXP for it :0 :0 :0
jagged crescent
The super structures pretty flat tho
compact nymph
If you have more than 250mm pen, go trough the upper casemate. If not, throw gold. I don’t bother about the tiny lower plate on this tank
queen hemlock
And you wonder why the videos get removed? @turbid smelt 🤔 .... posting them in all the channels would be considered spam
heady acorn
@unique scaffold people who have smasher buy it using real money, i dont think WG would nerf it
@neon basin but it's a collectable tank which means that WG will nerf it,not if,its just when
neon basin
Idk, maybe people who buy it using real money will got angry by it
hearty steeple
I am pretty sure it was sold with a disclaimer that collectors can be modified later or was that some other collector tank
burnt venture
neon basin
That's a T92E1 105mm gun lmao 🤣
autumn zodiac
The 105mm is an alternative on every other platform
hard ginkgo
yep, take a look on mercy.
meager spruce
https://wotblitz.com/en/news/updates/atgm-branch/ Also in this article sheridan is pictured with the 105mm
unique scaffold
Maybe they're considering it as a rapid firing alternative gun for those who have that kind of play style
meager spruce
@unique scaffold or maybe (which will be the better option) is for them to scrap the entire atgm system
noble siren
@meager spruce it can simply happen by replacing the ATGM ammo, no need to ruin the tank
acoustic shard
Buff the vindicators prem Heat pen from 225 to 250 pen and it's He from 80 to 88 and It's gun depression to -4. And slightly increase the armor on the under-plate of the lycan the armor on the upper-plate is not good enough to warrant such a weak lower-plate and slightly decrease it's
dispersion it's a gun depression tank that struggle's to make shots at range can't side scrape or bounce shots on it hull at t8
autumn zodiac
That's some uh... Interesting HE alpha
neon basin
Oof
winged barn
RIP salt tank
prime sparrow
they dont want people at low tiers to think that HE is a viable ammo type. Theres enough high tier players that shoot only HE already.
turbid ridge
Increase firing rate to 5.0 on IS 3
queen hemlock
Is that legit? @autumn zodiac
full token
Yes it is @queen hemlock
queen hemlock
That's some tasty HE then for a tier IV tonk 👀
drifting depot
Time to he spam with a pz 38
unique scaffold
@meager spruce it's fine in any case
neon basin
Well, imma retrieve my pz38 na again
forest heath
the armor on the predator UM definitely needs a buff as well as a penetration buff
Players have to deal with the atrocious lack of gun depression limiting already where they can go on the map, increasing the frontal armor from 130 to 145mm and increase the thickness of the front vision ports from 75 mm to 90mm and the penetration from 165mm to 170mm base AP also improve dispersion on the gun. I had to deal with missing 2 out of 3 shots missing completely from a stationary target
odd sun
Matilda BP sucks
snow sparrow
Matilda BP sucks
@odd sun most of the tier 5 prem sucks💩
odd sun
Some at least have armor, and some have speed. MBP has nothing lol.
robust coyote
MBP just has a good... wait is that what people call a gun?
90 alpha and one of the fastest reloads in the game
its a fine gun but it sucks due to the chassis that its mounted
crystal spoke
It ain't great but its certainly useable
odd sun
Even the gun isn't that great. Accuracy on the move is pretty bad... You'd expect that driving at max 22km/h means you hit your shots on the move. Big nope.
DPM could be better too, because of the other bad tank characteristics...
Games with it are like this. You either come to your position and enemy is already dead, or you come to your position and your team is already dead.
Also this is tier 5, so nobody has the patience to not rush all the time.
snow sparrow
If standard B is to be nerfed on dpm, I would like to raise my opinion. Nerfing its alpha may be a better option. 310 alpha means it's less deadly to tier 8s, and also makes Progetto 65 and standard B more different(If they have same alpha, penetration, burst time, gun handling, what's the point of playing Progetto 65? For more armor?). Moreover, it means BC25tap is a more competitive option, if you are going to buff it too.
robust coyote
Standard B has HESH that the projetto 65 does not
full token
It’s better to let it have the 350 alpha. 105mm guns are supposed to have that much anyway. The BC and others should get a buff upto 350 or something since they’re also 105mm. With the heavy buffs that’ll come to tiers 9 and below either next update or in the future, it’d be better to have mediums doing as much damage or else they’d have a harder time with the heavies.
tacit lichen
This is the worst update that WG has EVER made!!
crystal spoke
3.8 and 5.5 enters chat
acoustic shard
I think a tank moving as fast as the batchat shouldn't have over 1k damage in a clip. I think like the leo 1s buff it just needs some slight adjustments nothing to drastic. and buff the vindicator
regal grove
I hate to break it to you but WG will never ever buff a collectors or a premium and will never bother to even look at it unless they are planning to sell it again. Logically on WG’s part there’s no reason to adjust it bc there’s no good reason to if not many people play it
acoustic shard
thats illogical tho, It's not purchased or played BECAUSE it's bad. if it never gets buffed the numbers will never increase and it won't be sold. if the tank was good there would be a higer demand for it increasing the buyers as well as the people who play it. But that can't happen if the tank is bad to begin with
noble siren
Can the Type 59 get 10 more ammo cause 34 is a bit not enough
queen hemlock
I hate to break it to you but WG will never ever buff a collectors or a premium and will never bother to even look at it unless they are planning to sell it again. Logically on WG’s part there’s no reason to adjust it bc there’s no good reason to if not many people play it
@regal grove they have buffed Löwe in the past, and the same goes for the IS-6. And I guess if you would really look at all the patch notes for update, you would see more premium tanks changed
wet wharf
The Tier 9 Ho ri 2 reminds me of the jagdpanther 2 but with a strong upper plate. Jagdpanther 2 only has good casemate but this new Japanese TD has both a good upper plate and casemate. I think it needs a nerf of some sort to the upper plate.
spice spire
Buff type 59 please. It’s been extremely power creeped by all the new defender line of tanks, etc.
formal vale
Not really, the Type 59 is a very capable tank. If anything, it's the T-44-100 that needs a buff. It has less gun depression, worse pen, a much worse turret, and worse mobility than the Type 59. The only things that the T-44-100 beats the Type 59 in are gun dispersion, aim time, and hull traverse, which is practically nothing considering these tanks are typically meant to be hull down.
I'd personally give the T-44-100 the T-54 mod 1's turret armor and give it more engine power (between the standard T-44 and the mod 1's). That way it can at least go hull down somewhat more frequently.
dusky oxide
Buff the 121B. Its been undeperforming for a very long time. It could use more alpha or flexibility.
formal vale
Definitely not more alpha. It would probably benefit from a small gun depression buff coupled with a DPM buff and the strengthening of its modules.
molten crest
hello
plucky mantle
Good afternoon! How are you today?
dusky oxide
Why not more alpha? The wz121 already got that. Giving 121B just a bit more alpha would separate it more from other meds which is what it needs. Dpm was already increased a few updates ago and didnt do much.
The modules are really weak!
regal grove
@queen hemlock I was just at least thinking about the more rare premium tanks instead of the more mainstream ones. Yes premium tech tree and frequently sold and popular premiums have often received adjustments, but I don’t think I’ve ever saw a buff for underperforming but rare premiums ever, like Blaze FT, the Warhammers, T-44-100, Panther 58, the list goes on. Others such as the Ravioli were underperforming BUT were about to be sold again, which is why it was buffed (alpha buff and then sold for about 6k gold). Glacial recieved cupola buff and then it was sold in a bundle. Other than those times, it’s very infrequent that a shop-only premium has been buffed out of a whim and I don’t think there’s any way to change that.
full token
It seems more like they sell the tank because they just buffed it and people would be more interested if the tank got stronger, rather than buffing it so they can go sell it again
jagged crescent
121B isn’t even that bad tho
hushed token
queen hemlock
@regal grove Blaze FT was been buffed too 😉
noble siren
Can T92 get its camo removed, this tank deserves to be nerfed to the ground?
whole nebula
I’m not good with the missile dynamic, but I’d prefer they stayed, there are way more issues with people not knowing how to run the original playstyle of vehicles to start a new excuses tab aimed at the latest game mechanic, put more vehicle types in, minelayers, mortars, even flash bangs, the missiles will be forgotten about...
unique scaffold
Get out
unique scaffold
Please... please just get out.
karmic steeple
Funny April fools joke
regal grove
@queen hemlock wait what oof
then it again it was sold again with Glacial when it got buffed too
In the end I’m just saying that there’s so many tanks now that it’s hard to pay attention to all of them despite many being underperforming
ionic tartan
Do you think Arl V39 needa a buff?
acoustic shard
thats why this channesl Here for the players to request buffs for the tanks they belive are underperforming
odd sun
karmic steeple
bAlAnCe
unique scaffold
“Not enough players for it be on the charts”
winged barn
t28 is on the charts
unique scaffold
@ionic tartan yeah
ionic tartan
I believe the Arl V39 is underperforming cause The hatch on the thing literally kills it and The armor is just disappointing like i expect 60mm of hull armor to be trolly armor at least to the point where it can bounce a few shots, a Kv2 hit the hatch with HE with no problem (prolly cause RNGesus said screw you xD), the guns good its just the tank is just not worth the grind in my opinion, Sorry if this is very long but this is my opinoin why Arl V39 needs a buff.
gritty crescent
i dont think V39 is that bad, its just hard to play. learn to use it well and it works
flat bane
I like the V39 ;(
drifting depot
Don't go frontline with a vehicle meant to be at the back ._.
full token
Grille is the best frontline tank
burnt prism
So I've been looking at tanks to see how many tanks are just better than Leo1.
And I found out that leo1, while one of the best viewranges, still not the best. The russian med have 5m less viewrange, while having way better camo, better armor,better gun handling,and they have slightly worse pen, barely less dpm, and are slightly slower than leo. Idk, but to me thats just plain better than leo (looking at T62A here)
So we Either nerf the russian tanks, or make leo1s wievrange way better, but then again I'd rather not make the leo1 op, so I'd go with a nerf to the russian tanks, also to STB's viewrange, as it's a gun depresion medium with a strong turret, and I dont see why it has better viewrange than leo, while yes it has less dpm, and is slower, it still outperformes the leo by a lot
gritty crescent
nothing is wrong with the leo1, and certainly no need to nerf russian meds. leo works in its role, russian meds are different
noble siren
@gritty crescent leo is super situational tank, it works only when your enemy is bad or they make mistakes from which you benefit. Armorless med don't work well at tier 10 but at least it has good DPM. Leo needs to be fast, accurate while on move and to has more concealment. With this kind of changes it won't be broken cause it would be easy pen anyway, it can be the best flaker which its role is
autumn zodiac
Leopard 1 needs a Concealment buff.
The issue is that the intended play style for the tank is missing the stealth aspect. Most mediums in it's tier have about equal or better Camouflage alongside armor. If Leopard 1 could traverse maps with a lower risk of being spotted upon movement, and firing (given the gun fires quickly) I think it would perform well enough to not be as much as a risk.
noble siren
@autumn zodiac you will also need good acceleration so you can get access to higher speed faster, in order to reposition yourself to different locations.
unique scaffold
JgTig8,8cm needs an extra degree of gun depression. Make -7 to -8 degrees. 128mm gun has a bigger breach than 88mm and 105mm but has more gun depression, which is a non-sense. And an other proposal, to preserve historical accuracy, replace 105mm gun with 88mm L100 gun which e50 uses.
crystal spoke
The jagtiger 8.8 is already balanced and doesn't need a change
unique scaffold
I wish they didn’t Nerf the vindicator or predator like right after I paid like $30 for both of them which I don’t get it like the only way for wargaming to Nerf premium tanks if there’s too many of them to break the game obviously there wasn’t a lot of them maybe, I’m not sure I wasn’t really there when it first came out, just my question is WHY?
acoustic shard
I don't think they nerfed the tanks. They are just bad to begine with and needs buffs. The Vindicator for example Needs it's gun depression to go from -2 to -4 or 5 It's prem Heat pen from 225 to 250 and It's He pen from 80 to 88. The predator just needs Everything buffed.
unique scaffold
I couldn’t agree more, especially with its bulldozer blade for some reason every time when I ram a tank in my vindicator it causes slightly more damage to me then I’m trying to cause damage to the enemy and why is the engine is so weak when I try to push other tanks, especially light tanks! And why does every time when a tank with a high caliber like a 152 mm shoots me with HE at the front and still causes a lot of damage even though the bulldozer blade is very spaced from the actual tank, Especially there’s a lot of things they got wrong with the predator!
odd sun
Mines is too small map for tier 10. It's badly made for big tanks and huge spotting ranges.
unique scaffold
it's a terrible map for anything above tier 6
acoustic shard
Yea the vindicator Can't ram even though it's big as a house. and the armor only works if thew don't know how to pen
drifting depot
Fix grille's wonky angles which have no reason to exist, the gun doesn't collide with anything on the hull to stop it from having all of its gun depression over the front neither elevation from the sides
gritty crescent
vindicator is trash, always has been, always will be. The su152 is statistically better in all ways, just enrich a 152. way more worth your money. kinda sad for people who wasted the money buying vindi
jagged crescent
Honestly i like the idea of a grille getting a gun depression buff
unique scaffold
Especially the predator, it has an 80mm auto canon and it shoots pretty slow and only has three shells per Mag, in the lore The gun is actually made to take down infantry and it shoots faster and it keeps shooting into it overheats or something I don’t completely know about it’s gun but I do know it has a better gun depression then 5°, and the tank speed goes little more faster than 32km/h off road
vindicator is trash, always has been, always will be. The su152 is statistically better in all ways, just enrich a 152. way more worth your money. kinda sad for people who wasted the money buying vindi
@gritty crescent
gritty crescent
yes am one of the heretics
unique scaffold
My solution for the predator is make the tank faster on off road like 40km/h, and make the gun depression to maybe at least 7° and make it have a faster rate of fire, with a way better aiming time and the magazine size can be 10 rounds but it causes 50 damage per shot makes it 500 damage per magazine, and penetration should be 173 to 225 for AP and 220 to 300 for APCR, and frontal armor should be 175, sides: 85, rear 55, and also the predator is considered a medium tank not a heavy!
noble siren
@drifting depot nope if you pay attention the armor plate protecting the gunners is touching the hull. But without that armor plate it can easily full rotate.
drifting depot
Not that dude, the gun THE GUN gun depression man not turret
unique scaffold
Look how much space it should’ve gone
noble siren
@drifting depot my bad
drifting depot
Don't ping me just to say that ffs
unique scaffold
@drifting depot why u so mean? 🤣🤣 @unique scaffold keep in mind that the gun must have a taller turret for the gun to be able to get this low, or an open roof, it doesn’t have either of those
drifting depot
Stop pinging me reeeeee
forest heath
the armor on the predator UM definitely needs a buff as well as a penetration buff
Players have to deal with the atrocious lack of gun depression limiting already where they can go on the map, increasing the frontal armor from 130 to 145mm and increase the thickness of the front vision ports from 75 mm to 90mm and the penetration from 165mm to 170mm base AP also improve dispersion on the gun. I had to deal with missing 2 out of 3 shots missing completely from a stationary target as for the gun depression it doesn’t need to be buffed for me at least even for the vindicator
unique scaffold
Where did you get that picture from?
@forest heath
forest heath
@unique scaffold armor inspector app, it’s on mobile but it costs money though it locks tier a whole bunch of tanks so that you can only view the side armor and not the front, I don’t know how much it is because I asked a friend who did have payed for it to do it for me
unique scaffold
How much were talking, and is it on mobile to?
white totem
Change the M60 patton into the collector's tank, it's sucks and i can sell it for 50k credits only
full token
@unique scaffold It’s on mobile.
viscid breach
Not sure why people still complain about the vindicator. I play it to its strengths and I enjoy the thing. I earned it for free in an event, which is how I think every premium tank should be obtained. People should be rewarded with special vehicles if they are good players. Not because they line wargamings pocket with money.
I will admit, the vindicator isn’t the best in tier 7, but with that giant dozer blade, you can bait some really stupid shots that’d go through most other tanks.
For reference, if you check my blitzstars, you will see I have 63.66% win ratio in the thing, with 432 battles
unique scaffold
When having, wz120ft, obj252u, smasher and kv220, etc in game. There is no point having a balance discussion. All tanks are balanced, some tanks are more balanced.
acoustic shard
The tank most deffinantly has it's strenths but they are over shadowed by it's weaknesses. Say for example it had good armor on the upper Shovel. But not only do you have a capola and a hole that can be shot through one the upper hull, but you often have to expose all of your very week lower hull to get a shot off because of your lack of gun depression. Not to mention you have to run calibrated shells just to get the same level of pen that the Su-152 and the smasher have without calibrated. Thats why it needs a prem Heat and HE pen buff, as well as a gun depression buff.
noble siren
T91 should receive dispersion nerf, aiming time nerf, concealment nerf and armor nerf change my mind.
acoustic shard
the tank just needs an aim time and armor nerf. The concealment is as a light tanks should be,the despersion is alright for the gun. The armor on the hull and needs to be dialed back, the turret is fine. the armor on the side's is 100% pennable, although there is some troll spaced armor there but it's not really a problem.
noble siren
It just deserves to be nerfed to the ground
unique scaffold
^^^^wrong as usual the pen isn’t the problem 230mm of APCR is already worse than you’d think nerfing that even lower will make the standard shell even more useless and encourage HEAT spam what NEEDS to be nerfed on the T92 is the accuracy then armor next
mellow cape
Missiles aren't a problem
You got the whole squad laughing bruh
hushed token
Even tho the Ru 251 is the fastes tanks in the game it's acceleration is awful. The bad acceleration really hinders it potential.
noble siren
@unique scaffold If you play Sheridan (but you don't) you will see that 230mm APCR pen is super weak for tier 10. Sheridan is well balanced, it requires skill to make the tank work. The problem here is T92E1 which has to high pen for that kind of gun at that tier.
frozen summit
e75 is good tank? cuz feels like worse version of tiger 2, its not maxed eq ;/
jagged crescent
Max it out and learn to angle. It’s one of the best heavy tanks tier for tier.
@hushed token and I think you just need to unlock the top engine. The RU’s a good tank if you don’t play like an idiot.
quasi saffron
Can we give the kv2 more HE pen for tier seven battles?
frozen summit
ive reached tier9 e75 in german tanks and im thinking about playing other, what path is entertaining to play?
mellow cape
Only E75 is good among the 3 tier 9 german heavies sadly, Mauschen is ok (but the tank it goes to, maus is really good) and VK 45.02 B is pretty bad (and the tank it leads to is also really bad)
If you dont want to play just heavies then the german tank destroyer line for grille 15 is pretty good (although grille itself is bad, the Wt auf Pz IV is the strongest tier 9 TD)
unique scaffold
Of which that’s utterly wrong missiles are still a problem if your seeing lights using standard ammo then you must be giving them a window to use it
mellow cape
Its very evident that you have no clue what you are talking about at this point, and not to stat shame but your stats reflect that (You have 23% winrate in sheridan in the last 30 days, and 875 DPB, I dont think you know how to balance the game)
unique scaffold
And now you contradict yourself you say Sheridan needs to be nerfed but it doesn’t at all and saying the ammunition of it needs to be nerfed is also a no brainer why are you ignoring the fact 230mm apcr can’t go through almost anything at all at T10 nerfing that even lower would make the Sheridan extremely useless and encourage harmful missile spam even more if you’d play Sheridan the right way you’d know it wouldn’t need a nerf the only one in the line needing to be nerfed is T92 and it’s not penetration it’s the accuracy and armor
noble siren
@unique scaffold my experience with this tank (and overall) is far better than yours, and obviously I know better than you. Sheridan with 230mm pen APCR is just a stupid joke to have in tier 10 battles, all tanks should rely on their primary ammo so no reason to be nerfed more, but I don't expect from someone who can put only 2 shots in battle to understand. You talk like you know how to play the tank but you don't. You seriously need to stop that cringe fest. If you are one of those players "who play the game just to spend their free time and don't care about the mechanics" why are you even here?
Lol he removed it
mellow cape
Missiles are a problem and need to go, the maps weren't designed with missiles in mind.
Thats why there are so many maps with spots where ATGMs are just completely broken, they can farm you safely from behind cover and you can't return fire at them at all because they are backed up by 3 camping TDs who will erase you if you push them.
Also good job deleting that message 😂 🤦♂️ , no one is asking you to 'bow' to us or any of that.
unique scaffold
I love how he deleted his “opinions” and is now reacting with clown face my guy it’s only making you look worse
noble siren
Not surprised because he can't show any evidence. He just says random nonsenses and even his stats can't backup it cause he don't know how the game works, but pretend something.
My advice for you is to play the game for fun, spare your free time on it, just don't make fun of yourself @unique scaffold
unique scaffold
I think the vindicators if perhaps one of the only tank they can take on a ATGM because it’s missile only use HEAT and It can’t cause damage to a vindicator to the frontal armor because bulldozer blade/Space armor if the vindicator is moved to a higher tier like tier 9, it can be like an anti-ATGM tank
thin notch
Game balance of random teams is redicolous. I were only one with mre than. 50% victories in mY team and on other side there were only 1 with below 50% and rest inmid 50s or even 60s. How to win games with gamers that do not know how to play
noble siren
"Mm is balanced stop complaining" you can do that in general discussion
river portal
hori ta 2 tier 9 td is worst tier 9 td i ever play in this game ( i have 70k battles in blitz)
vale sun
feeding the anti-atgm crowd, 1 missile at a time
(for the record, I think missiles are broken and should be removed)
noble siren
@river portal for me it's pretty decent the only problem is the accuracy, shots sometimes just drop for no reason
river portal
@noble siren nice what your stats on it compare to other tier 9 tds?
mellow cape
I dont think hori tier 9 is the worst, it has a very strong upper plate (although area around the gun is weak) and also a gun with very high penetration AP rounds as both normal and premium rounds.
I would say T95 is the worst tier 9 TD overall because of how inflexible it is and how easy it is to flank
noble siren
Better but that's maybe cause I got better in the game in not long time ago and it's like the first TD playing when I know what to do. I think that 58% and 2k average is good.
drifting depot
Imagine complaining about that flat plate being weak when everyone except for high pen tds need to load pramo talking about the tier 9 Japanese td
harsh rock
When are you guys gonna buff the at15 again?
jagged crescent
At-15s fine.
There are other tier 8s that are in more need of a buff
unique scaffold
Like the vindicator!
;-;
autumn zodiac
AT-15 needs help. The only other tier 8 tanks that need help are the Panther II and Panther 8.8cm, and Centurion 1.
AT 15 is riddled with weakspots, the weakspot on the AA turret also contains the loader which Destroys it's RoF trait. AT-15 is slow, and doesn't have the ability to push up, which forces it into trading in a tier with many 400 alpha guns.
AT 15 doesn't even have good Penetration for it's class, it's the lowest actually of all tier 8 tank Destroyers. Only above RHM if it is using the 15cm.
jagged crescent
Haha watch this
autumn zodiac
Yes, it's a terrible tank.
formal vale
Idk man, I fear any buffs to it may make it OP. Maybe minor traverse, penetration, and hull armor buffs would work, but I'd have to play it to really get a clear picture of the tank's performance.
P.S. by "hull armor buffs" I mean the hull, not the cupolas. Weakspots are there for a reason, it's up to the driver to work with them.
jagged crescent
Haha hull down makes weak spot bye bye
acoustic shard
I would even play the vindicator if it had a missile. not because it would be op but because I want a normal shell type the missile's although they would allow to get some nice shots off are extreamly situational and at other time's a normal shell would do the trick better
unique scaffold
I would even play the vindicator if it had a missile. not because it would be op but because I want a normal shell type the missile's although they would allow to get some nice shots off are extreamly situational and at other time's a normal shell would do the trick better
@acoustic shard What it would be better for the vindicator if it has AP shells like throwing Iron boulders at 200 mph
noble siren
Lmao the gun on At15 is god tier, you have crazy DPM and if know how to bait shots you make tanks like Is 5/3/6 regret meeting you.
dim field
Loved the At15, haven't played it in a long time though so unsure how well it's held up since then
winged barn
Shoot it here, even very low pen guns go straight through
And it breaks the gun and kills the loader and gunner
I greatly enjoyed the at15 when I had to grind it.
broken crescent
Damn
winged barn
Upon further inspection, that center spot is only 76mm thick.
twin egret
the AT 15A has a better gun mantlet I think than the normal AT 15
harsh rock
The bottom is the at15a
empty copper
So sick of T92E1 ruining games at tier VIII+. There will be no purchases from me until the US lights are properly balanced:
-
T92E1 turret armour reduced to 40/20/20, hull armour to 35/30/20 (rationale: make it vulnerable to HESH & overmatchable by 120mm guns, and make only slightly better-armoured than the less-mobile, heavier B-C 25t AP - T92E1 survivability is far too high for its class and damage output).
-
T92E1 and Sheridan APCR removed or replaced by a HEAT round with ~700m/sec velocity, ~305mm pen and 480 alpha (rationale: low pressure, short-barrel gun/launchers cannot fire high-velocity AP/APCR rounds; the only reason the gun on the KpfPz 70 could fire one was because it had a barrel twice the length and made to a stronger standard; this round would be a lower-velocity version of the KpfPz 70 HEAT round).
-
T92E1 and Sheridan HE alpha reduced to 640 alpha in line with the KpfPz 70 HE round, and muzzle velocity reduced to ~700m/sec (rationale: as with the APCR round, the short-barrel gun/launcher is not able to generate high muzzle velocity).
-
ATGM mechanics changed to remove the ability to fire without LOS (rationale: the technology for non-LOS and top-attack missiles first appeared in the mid-1990s, so it's the same generation as composite armour, explosive reactive armour, and smoothbore guns, all of which are supposedly 'too modern for Blitz'; plus it's intensely irritating for many players to be hit by non-LOS missile fire).
-
ATGM velocity increased to ~250-320m/sec in line with the real MGM-51 Shillelagh missile (rationale: reduce exposure time for the firing tank so missiles do not take a longer time of flight than standard rounds take for bloom to settle).
-
ATGM pen increased to 330mm and alpha increased to 400 (rationale: making the missiles LOS-only requires significant balancing factors to keep them useful; an increase in pen and damage, along with having no dispersion/aiming time and short time of flight would do this).
willow junco
who ever had a idea that creat missle tank he or she is brainded
formal vale
With that I guess I'll put in my idea for it:
TL;DR - Remove ATGMs, give both tanks the option to derp or be reliable
T92E1:
+152mm gun:
- Remove ATGMs
- Remove APCR
- Add HEAT (152mm of pen, 560 damage)
- Change HE damage to 840
+105mm gun:
- Remains the same.
Sheridan:
+152mm gun:
- Remove ATGMs
- Remove APCR
- Add HEAT (152mm of pen, 560 damage)
- Change HE damage to 960
+Add 105mm gun option:
- Add APCR (240mm of pen, 350 damage, 2850 dpm)
- Add HEAT (310mm of pen, 300 damage)
- Add HE (75mm of pen, 415 damage)
distant river
@empty copper
The armour nerf is a good idea, these tanks should be easily HE-able by anything and definitely not bouncy.
If you think 1800 dpm (which is what the T92 would have with 480 alpha) is anything near decent enough for a tank without something special then you are extremely wrong. It is worse than the SP1C. That says about everything you need to know really.
HE should not be nerfed, if anything it should be buffed (2400 dpm with HE is pathetic, worse then BC with AP)
Line if sight would make ATGMs useless, they either need to stay like they are now or just be standard HEAT. Even with a velocity of 320m/s you are still exposing in a paper tank for way too long to make it feasible or a sensible idea. You don't have aim time, but you do have to constantly aim at a moving target for a second which means it's not the amazing godly accurate shot people make it out to be unless the red tank is standing completely still and is oblivious. And it would be a decrease not an increase to have 400 HEAT alpha and then it would have 1500 dpm (same as the VK100.01, but with it's awful stock gun that everyone hates for its atrocious dpm. Oh and it's a tier 8 not a tier 9 so it doesn't come against the nice 6k hp maus platoons)
meager spruce
For balance changes I propose this: Buff all the tanks I have in my own garage so that they become op, and heavily nerf all the other tanks that I will go up against.
unique scaffold
T92E1:
-Remove apcr
+primary ammo is non-missile normal HEAT round with 200mm pen.
+secondary ammo is missile HE 90mm pen.
Armour: 20mm everywhere.
Sheridan:
-Remove apcr
+primary ammo is non missile normal HEAT round with 220mm pen.
+secondary ammo is missile HE 90mm pen.
Armour: only spaced armour should be placed in sides, else 20mm armour everywhere.
full token
You’d prefer an ATGM that does damage every time to an ATGM that has a chance to bounce? 90mm of pen when it can hit from the top of tanks would be more splash damage than just firing it from nonATGM tanks. You hit flatter armor with atgms. You might even be able to pen the enemies at that point, and often as well, not rarely.
distant river
@unique scaffold you want to nerf the sheridans pen even more, and then not give it any prammo? You realise that it's only chance of penning a maus (with 3k hp now, thanks WG) is by being almost completely flat with its side or rear? Look at the picture and tell me a maus should be invulnerable at that angle (and that is the tiny weakspot on the rear plate that is at 230mm, above and below is over 270mm). HE ATGMs are also a stupid idea as well as said above
rose veldt
if HT get more HP, why LT/MT didnt get more Horse Power, More acceleration, but keep in that max speed
Sorry for my english
gritty crescent
vindicator would fix one of its probems if they just gave it more gun dep and AP
unique scaffold
You’d prefer an ATGM that does damage every time to an ATGM that has a chance to bounce? 90mm of pen when it can hit from the top of tanks would be more splash damage than just firing it from nonATGM tanks. You hit flatter armor with atgms. You might even be able to pen the enemies at that point, and often as well, not rarely.
@full token
Thats the trade-off having less pen on HEAT. Its no different than T49 in tier viii. And it will be very fun. Do not expect more than 200-300hp worth of spash dmg on heavy tanks like MAUS, E100, etc. which will significantly reduce of dpm of these tanks. The main problem of tier ix and x US light tanks, is actually the high pen, high velocity apcr.
noble siren
Because having 230mm pen at tier 10 is very high right? I already struggle penning T62 cause if he wiggles it's 50/50 pen shot. If you gonna nerf the pen give the tanks some actual DPM and Alfa as compensation. The ATGM is kinda meh so get rid of it I don't care about it. Can't see any problem Sheridan not being HE pennable cause it's huge. With lower pen you will barely pen anything at tier 10, just give it back 240 pen and HEAT replacing the APCR. The HEAT round will so often not pen because of tracks, weird angles and etc. that it would be nonsense to take its pen too.
unique scaffold
@noble siren T49 has 152mm pen on its HEAT round w/o calibrated shells. Accordingly tier ix should have no more tha 170mm and tier x should have no more than 200mm pen HEAT rounds. However when i consider the competitiveness in tier x, your suggestion of 240mm HEAT round for Sheridan is plausible.
full token
How nice you broke the rules with this message :)
distant river
Your post isn't against the rules but it's a waste of everyone's time so there's no point in you sending it. 200mm of pen is tier 8 pen and is definitely not suitable for tier 10. Unless you are trying to ruin the game then suggestions like 200mm if pen should stay in your head and save everyone else the pain of having to read them @unique scaffold
unique scaffold
@unique scaffold Do not tell other users to stfu. Am I clear?
noble siren
Oh .... here we go again
unique scaffold
@distant river On the other hand you are smart enough to make your point without resorting to telling someone to "try thinking".
acoustic shard
There has always Been a massive jump in penn from t8 to t9 the t92 is no diffrent. For example the RU-251 has 180 pen while the Leo pta Has 255. Thats because they need to pen t10 tanks as well as same tier tanks that more armor then the Tier 8 and 7 tanks you would come across in the in the t49 oh and plz buff the vindicator
acoustic shard
from -2 to -4 or 5 gun depression 225 to 250 prem Heap pen and it's He pen from 80 to 88. I garentee you this tank would perform if it had theses changes
full token
Obv buffing a tank would improve it
acoustic shard
thats what I'm saying
unique scaffold
I couldn’t agree more too
regal grove
Is no one gonna bother with the fact that the E1’s dpm is actually lower than the T49
Sure missiles can go they’re just niche and annoying but other than that the tanks actually aren’t all that great, it’s just exactly what you’d expect from a tier 9 and 10 mobile derp on wheels
The only major adjustment it needs is an alternative 105 gun (and possibly removal of missiles but they’re pretty easy to counter I’ve noticed)
odd sun
Buff BatChat tier 10 it sucks af.
tough path
it has bad depression and elevation. its the wrost thing about that tank. it would be deecent if they actually fixed that
odd tendon
what's the rationale behind the significantly lower dpm t8 mediums have after upgrading from tier 7? pershing has same as t20 while many others generally have 300 less
autumn zodiac
I don't know, the balancing behind the logic but at least with T-44 you can argue it has high Alpha
noble siren
Can Ho Ri get 8° gun depression?
nimble zodiac
no lol
empty copper
@distant river good catch on the missile damage. I meant to type 500 alpha, but even 550 might be ok. Without calculating it out, (tank compare is hard to use on my phone) reload would need to be buffed as well.
The point about exposure and missile time of flight is a crock though. At 300m/sec your time of flight for average engagement ranges would be less than 1 second.
So, you shoot (pointing only roughly at the target, since you can adjust aim on the fly), you're spotted and the reds' reaction time starts, that's about 200msec on average up to about 300msec for someone with slower reactions like me. Of course, that's assuming you are shooting from a position where the reds are already looking at you, which surely you are not?
So let's say they were already looking your way, they see the launch and your icon appear, they traverse on and switch to sniper view (they aren't going to hit the tiny, exposed sliver of your turret from arcade view, and you are hull- down, right?). By this time your missile is 1/3 to 1/2 its way to target and you've adjusted your aim, remembering that with 330mm pen you can hit just about anywhere on most targets.
Now the reds are sighting in on your general location, they start visual search to pick out the little bit of turret from the cover, lay their gun on that and now they have to wait for reticle bloom to settle. Let's say they are in something snappy like a T-62A, so 1.3 sec aiming time (to shrink to ~33% full bloom), by the time your missile impacts on the target they are only half way aimed in at best and you are pulling back with your target 500hp lighter. So the chance of the reds actually getting a successful shot off is minimal.
I'm pretty sure I could make that work, and you're a far better player than I am, so I'm quite certain you'd make it work really well.
main tulip
People really still complain about missiles?
winged barn
Yup. I still want them gone and they are still here.
paper star
theyre kinda too op from my thought
chilly stump
Add the option of being able to donate credits to your fellow clan mates?
unique scaffold
This is why the vindicator needs better gun depression i’ll show you the pictures
unique scaffold
It’s on a tiny bump
unique scaffold
@chilly stump I 100% agree with you. That has to be an option at some point. Donating gold would be nice too. ;)
misty reef
MM need to fixed especially for higher tiers. It should include minimum 1200 avg DMG requirement for players to play tier 9-10
mellow cape
Very balanced armor
verbal thistle
If there is any wargaming employe reading this
Why can't we have all the commands like
Highlighting a particular teammate fall back
Or hold position
Or follow me
And other commands that are there in world of tanks blitz and console.
They might be very useful in the game instead of typing
nimble zodiac
Hard to implement not gonna lie. Oh and now I realize it this is irrelevant my bad
distant river
@empty copper 1 second is more than enough for people to react (or at least it should be) and it is more than enough for people to get into cover unless they are sitting in the complete open, or to shoot back, or do both at once.
You are assuming that there is only 1 red who is aimed nowhere near your tank, and that you cannot shoot anyone unless you are basically unspotted. A tank like that relies on its speed and quick engagements getting away before the reds know where you are, and in a second the reds are definitely going to know where you are.
It isn't a bad idea and it's definitely not the worst I've seen on here (not saying much but hey 🤷♀️) but it just isn't practical enough to work. LOS missiles are way too situational to be of any use and they might as well be a standard HEAT shell. The other thing to do is decrease the turning radius (WG already did a very good trick making there be a slight delay when firing a missile) but buff the AP pen so less missiles are shot.
drifting depot
Give t49 a 152mm 3 shell autoloader with 3 seconds intra clip reload because I feel like clowning today, watch some other clown take it seriously 😔
noble siren
It's funny how I lost a Kolobanov because my HE on Ho Ri has the stupid 640 Alfa, plz buff it to at least 800 because it's funny and not even worth using considering that this was ship canon
hard nebula
do u think having 4 sheridans in the same game every game in ranked is normal? don't u think this tank deserves what a lot of players think, i.e removing this completely unrealistic mecanic using tank from this game? when will u consider this as an option, this tank doesnt have the right to enter ranked.
Please, is this normal in anybody's eyes? 5 atgms in a single game when we talk about heavies' meta, pls dont make me laugh
chilly crane
Buff BC25T lmao
left wigeon
Add the ability to send credits to a clan mate? Or gold too.
drifting depot
That's a good idea but all of these pesky reroll accounts will just transfer everything from their main accounts to never use them again and be completely toxic about them having 60% wr and 20k games in a d.w.2 or some sht
noble siren
That's where the 2-3 year rule can be useful
frozen summit
jesus, e75 is not close to be good tier9 since everyone can pen him easly even tier 8 and is slow af. I have win rate 10% playing this utterly shitty tank.
and yes i maxed it out...
unique scaffold
@frozen summit What? e75 is bad tank? First i hear it.
frozen summit
@unique scaffold once they will pass u, u will die before u turn around.
unique scaffold
@frozen summit yes if somone rush to meds, they will flank and kill it. But this tank melt others hevs.
frozen summit
meds just rush it when they see it, and most of games at tier9 tier 10 contains only med and light tank. which makes e75 unplayable and unejoyable.
autumn zodiac
E 75 is in my opinion the best tier 9 heavy in the tech tree. The armor holds, the mobility isn't poor, it's not great but it's more than enough, the alpha allows it to trade easily.
If you are allowing mediums to push past you I don't know where you are going on the map to begin with. If you are truly struggling with tier E 75 no Tier 9 heavy will work for you.
unique scaffold
@autumn zodiac ST-1 is just better nowadays.
jagged crescent
Cancerfaust, I think you’re just bad at using the E75.
I’m not sure whether the ST-I is better tho. But it’s definitely a close call. The tier 9 heavies are actually pretty well balanced if you think about it.
frozen summit
@autumn zodiac @jagged crescent im not bad as e75, i use similar tactics as i was playing with tiger 2 that gave me winrate aroud 60%, i usualy keep my self back, not rushing, a lot of camping and still cant do a decent game as i was doing as tiger 2. tbh i would wreck as tiger 2 e75 anytime.
autumn zodiac
Tiger 2 is beyond broken, 60% in tiger 2 is not difficult in the slightest currently
unique scaffold
i find the e75 to be much better against its own tier and higher than the tiger 2, change my mind.
jagged crescent
i usualy keep my self back, not rushing, a lot of camping There's your issue
frozen summit
@jagged crescent and why is that? each time i tried to rush i died in first 1 minute of game. camping allows me to deal more than 1k dmg in each game, if i wont keep my self in the back of my team med just run me over
also map with hill just killing the engine in e75.
karmic steeple
He is correct that is your problem. You shouldn’t be rushing or camping. You should be getting into effectively sidescraping positions and holding.
And pushing when useful
regal grove
Man complains about E75 but he’s probably never played IS-8 stock before
jagged crescent
camping allows me to deal more than 1k dmg in each game
@regal grove don't tell him about a stock ST-I/WZ-120
frozen summit
@karmic steeple i already know that i have to hit from side for maximum efficiency. tbh every player that played with me in platoon said im very good player :/
versed fable
stock conqueror sits in the corner
jagged crescent
A good player shouldn't camp in an E75 to do more than 1k dmg per game. . .
karmic steeple
^
frozen summit
@jagged crescent wanna play platoon ?
mortal ridge
I want a prenium tank but I have no money 😢
unique scaffold
Stop being poor
regal grove
If you have time then there’s been plenty of opportunities to get a good premium - Type 59, E1 EXP, and others have all been somewhat easy to get tanks
unique scaffold
I got the su-100y with the gold I got with the Christmas event
jovial sorrel
@frozen summit you are the saddest most terrible heavy tank player I have ever heard of! Who tf camps in a heavy, no wonder your getting 10% wr, you deserve it. Stop camping and use ur heavy like an actual heavy so your team can push with you and rely on you. Get ur brain together!
unique scaffold
Amen
wooden vortex
Something should be done with the t10 batchat, it stands no chance against Sheridan. The burst is fine but it takes too long to unleash full clip potential which makes it a hard tank to deal damage efficiently.
lavish cargo
Sign this petition for the removal of ATGMs from Blitz: http://chng.it/c4ZQWbPBcK\
jovial sorrel
@wooden vortex what they need to do with the batchat is give it 350 or the 400(pc) alpha and give it a longer clip reload so that the impact of an entire clip is more devastating and effective
wooden vortex
@jovial sorrel Would this make it worse? Given the rhythm of blitz is much faster and the maps are smaller in scale.
frozen summit
@jovial sorrel u cant read or u dumb or what? the point of playing heavy tank is that u focus aim of the opposite team hoping that u can sustain most of it because they cant easly pen u, this gives meds opportunity to go from sides. whats the point of playing e75 heavy tank that cant do that since everyone can easly pen him?
that means its no point of playing heavy in higher tiers since every one has good pen.
@sullen garden jesus crist... i know that...
sullen garden
@frozen summit Well that's the thing, when you angle the e75 it's not easy to pen
regal grove
I don’t see anything wrong with that
unique scaffold
@frozen summit read the pinned messages
This channel is about vehicle balance. It's not for complaints about matchmaking
frozen summit
doesnt matchmaking is kinda of balance in game?
unique scaffold
This channel is about vehicle balance. It's not for complaints about matchmaking
@unique scaffold
nimble zodiac
Heavy tanks have been made more prominent in higher tiers in this update now, so there is a few reasons why you should play them
flat maple
The Foch needs a buff, it’s not worth rn.
drifting depot
@frozen summit focus on hiding your lower plate and sidescraping, and don't get mad if you get penned not just because it's a heavy it means it should be unpennable
jagged crescent
i really wanna buy back my e75. Should i sell my e100
Already have the Jageroo as well hmm
flat maple
Don’t do it
formal vale
@jagged crescent yeah don't do that. Save up credits and don't make the same mistake that I did
jagged crescent
hrngghh
gritty crescent
if you camp in heavys that just sorta sad tbh
mellow cape
Wdym me camping in my KV-2 at spawn is bad? 😤
vale sun
@frozen summit You should stop blaming the tank for all your troubles...
If you can't do well in the e75 then you learnt nothing in the tiger II.
jagged crescent
also why u even camping in the Tiger II
True, gun's hella good but that's just wasting the ridiculous armor buff it recieved
clever goblet
^
frail silo
@frozen summit are you seriously camping in a fricking HEAVY?
you should be questioning your play style not the tank's balance
camping in a e75 or a tiger 2 is the worst thing you can do
German heavy line is pushed to it's limits when you angle your tank
you should be side scraping and hiding the lower plate of your e75 not camp in it
also what kind of fricking rush do you do to get yourself killed in 1min
it is a you problem because you can't position yourself well and camping does not fix your problem
the only reason you did well in the tiger 2 is because its armor is fricking good at that tier and that is it
e75's mobility is not poor and not good it is decent for a tank like that
you are supposed to push with your heavies and trade with the enemies heavy and if you get flanked by the mediums then it is your team who let them do that
if you camp in an e75 then you learned nothing from side scraping nor angling in general which will lead to you
not being able to do anything in E100 because that tank is slower
and requires good angling of both your turret and hull plus it is not something you can camp in
vale sun
^^^
You can't just go like "well it's not my fault, my platoonmates say I'm a good player". The E75 has always been one of the most threatening heavies at tier 9 and when playing well it should do fine even in tier 10 games. Try learning more about armour mechanics.
flat bane
St-l and E75 are my favorite tech tree heavies. K-91 is my favorite prem tbh.
winged sorrel
Wg should probably increase the pen of T49's Conventional Launcher gun because it's useless as most tanks at the high tiers have a hard armour that makes it impossible to pen. It should be at least above 160 so that the players can get more effective shots.
If u have not upgraded even ur T49's turret, u should know it
PS:(My t49 is full y upgraded with crew 100% and it still sucks)
nimble zodiac
T49 isn't necessarily meant to brawl heavies unless it's a flank manuever ._.
proud crystal
yes
jagged helm
Well its pen is almost not enough to pen e75 sides so
drifting depot
I would like to say it's more of accuracy rather than penetration, keep the base dispersion the same at 0.440 but holy sht dispersion while moving is absolutely horrendous even tho when you face against them they always seem to hit but the deal with this is just how poor and how huge the reticle becomes when you move juuuust a little
formal vale
The T49 does not need any buffs, idk what y'all are on about.
unique scaffold
@ebon falcon delete that thanks
winged barn
bUt ThE aRmOr Is BeTtEr At LoNg RaNgE
nimble zodiac
Lol, technically, the shell loses penetration over distance, lessening the chance of penetration. And yes, I know you’re sarcastic, and heavies shouldn’t camp
strange dome
w
unique scaffold
The game is always going to have campers. Players that don’t see what the game is for. It’s about your team winning.
nimble zodiac
Or the game is for fun but ok
#RemoveATGMs
soft walrus
ATGM is holy well balanced, when people can hit U behind the slope and you can do nothing about it. If you are a fast tank, ok fine you can escape/find a cover in time/do some tricky maneuvers, but if you are a slow tank, you are just a pile of damage and XP
old notch
^ exactly that, while the Sheridan is more “a very strong tank” than completely OP, since it does have meh-ish armour because 9/10 AP shells are gonna go straight through and the tank silhouette is absolutely massive and a pretty easy target to hit, the T92 honestly needs its front armour nerfed from 50mm to 39mm, or something of that sort because a light tank that deals a massive crap load of damage from behind cover, and still bounce massive 400 alpha shots from heavies does not make sense. The recent nerf from Idk, 70mm? Down to 50mm gave 151mm+ guns a chance, there are still big fat angry tanks like the 263 that are designed to punish misplays and I think tbat the T92 just don’t get punished nowhere enough to warrant yolo rushing into a close cover and missile everyone from that camping spot
hearty steeple
They nerfed the plate to 52mm not 50mm. only allows 183 and jagroo to overmatch it. Not even your 155mm will overmatch it.
formal vale
broken
nimble zodiac
@old notch You understand a large portion of that silhouette is JUST spaced armor, and if you happen to shoot only that spaced armor, then you won't do damage, right?
Actual armor to shoot, which gets taken advantage of very often as a player backs up to where only the spaced part shows. But anyways, it didn't let me post both at the same time lol
unique scaffold
Ngl i like the tort but it needs a armor buff to mabey abt 240-260 effective
noble siren
400
unique scaffold
Know whats funny. 268 heat can go through that like butter
An alt solution is adding some hp and dpm (200 more)
nimble zodiac
That's what HEAT is for... penning thick armor plates that are not angled much
brazen moat
VK 72.01 K needs more love it's the worst tier X.
wind turret
I believe the IS3 deserves a little buff? Anyone else agree
nimble zodiac
IS-3 is a god tier hulldown tank, use it that way
soft walrus
Well I think D1 really need a buff(although no one actually play it). With no armor, no mobility, no firepower(with its extremely low shell velocity), it is,nothing but a crap.
Yes I am talking abt D1 the french tier 2 collection tank
crystal spoke
A lot of low tiers could use some love but its low teir so it doesn't matter much to wg
jagged crescent
Then why don’t they make it easier for players to grind the WZ-120
nimble zodiac
Most tier 9s are terrible maxing grinds
jagged crescent
hrnngh
drifting depot
Maaan there are a lot of ways to balance the 183, just switch that hesh for heat give it as much pen as the jageroo, make the gun a little more reliable, lower the reload to around 17 seconds with a gun rammer and make the armor what you're told in paper, those 60mm I think turret cheeks are wack and that less than 50mm rear part on the sides is just as wack
regal grove
The moment WG touches the 183 either the intellectual player base will start unintellectually screaming at WG, the repost warriors will create a whole new batch of 183 memes, or the 30%er 12 year old player base will refuse to open their mom’s purse for Blitz again 🤷♂️
I don’t think I’d take any consequence
unique scaffold
I just want it gone it’s just a downside to both teams ingame
nimble zodiac
Impossible
unique scaffold
WG should buff fv 215 183 becouse it has onoly big dmg per shoot and penetration. I will see for this TD bigger dmg or better armor. It have very very big nerf long time ago. Players was saying "nerf it" becouse It is very easy to predict where this TD stands but as players were exposed and getting from him for 1K then the players complained about it
nimble zodiac
I think it can perform well, doing a good 2k damage per game at least with a little luck
twin egret
just replace FV215b (183) with FV215b (123), give it armor, and boom, good tank
unique scaffold
@twin egret You mean Badger? Armor is not problem of fv 183. This tank have very bad accuracy so you need to go first/second line but before shoot you need to show your weakspots on turret so armor buff in not an option. I will see first dmg and accuracy buff. Second will be camo buff.
unique scaffold
Please limit the number of lights, espacially sheridans. Its just annoying to fight against 3 or more of these rocket tanks. They can pen and hit u easly and you cant do some against a rocket. I have games with3-4 sheridans and t92e1, im in the e100 wow. Thats just not good for the game
drifting depot
cough you always had 2 t49s at tier 8 before just because of how annoying it is to fight against, now you got these broken atgm tanks of which you get 2 t92e1s and either 1 Sheridan or 1 t49
white knot
can someone explain to me bout this, how... can my T49 does 300+ dmg oh the side of an enemy T49 BUT the enemy T49 is able to do 600+ on my front amour
e x p l a i n pls
unique scaffold
you hit track
white knot
@unique scaffold track absorb dmg ?
orchid grove
For the 183, I wouldn’t mind if it were kept in its current state, just removed from the tech tree and replaced with Super Tortoise. Just slap some spaced armor on the hull cheeks, and ramp up the gun stats of the Tortoise, and boom, Super Tortoise
compact nymph
^ would fit better than the 183 as a T10. Every single tank in the line from the AT-2 is slow, with decent although crippled by weakspots armor, and a fast-reloading peashooter. Then, as a T10, we get a campy turreted FV with the highest alpha in the game and little to no armor. It simply makes no sense. As Posit1ve said, removing it from the tech tree will at least prevent the 40%ers from getting it later « Oo bESt AlPHa iN GAmE mE wAnT » and so on not making T10 battles worse than they are now. And at least it would hopefully bring us a tank in line with it’s predecessors in the tech tree.
quasi saffron
i feel like wargaming in the future should really test out premium tanks before releasing them to the public. or do what asphalt 8 does where they release a car in an event where you can play the car for free then the top x players win the car. Then, they could release the tank to the store. that way theres no Super op tanks.
karmic steeple
They do test them
marsh bolt
game is broken
frozen summit
@frail silo define camping, because all that u wrote about angling and scraping is my definition of camp ;o
unique scaffold
improve points system in ranked. What should i do with just Bad players, its almost impossible to get better points
night flame
E25 is among the most useless prem tanks. If not THE worst. It barely holds aginst half of Tier 6, majority of Tier 7 and irrelevant in Tier 8 matches
regal grove
Then you’re obviously playing it wrong as it’s one of the best tier 7 premiums.... @night flame
hollow ledge
@night flame It has great DPM and the best camo in the game. Play it as a Bush sniper
frail silo
@frozen summit oh then tell me how do you exactly camp in a tiger 2 or an e75
What i listed is armor mechanics that you should be using in an e75 or a tiger 2
How do you exactly push? How do you position your tank and where do you do it on the map?
Do you hold front lines ?
reef lynx
obj.263 needs 4.5k dpm
thin ermine
@orchid grove what SHOULD have come after the tortoise is the badger, but wg had to sell it in crates. Super conq should come after regular conq. But that has to be in crates too. Good logic, good grief
empty glacier
Give the panther m10 better armor like the normal panther cause the panther m10 kinda sucks right now
compact nymph
^ it gets the same dpm for worse pen, and armor wasn’t buffed like it’s tech tree counterpart
odd tendon
weegee forgot the m10 exists
frozen summit
ok i take it back about everythink i said about e75 bought a new gun and he is beast
@frail silo but getting that last upgrade was a nightmare
nimble zodiac
Please don’t judge tanks when they’re not maxed anymore. Upgrading tier 9 tanks are mostly always a nightmare
frozen summit
but i was only missing gun which is wierd that it could make such a difference
unique scaffold
@frozen summit This is very stupid saying tank is bad when you have stock gun/no top gun. You can also collect free exp from event and buy modules.
nimble zodiac
I always go for the gun first, gotta make yourself more effective at tier X somehow, and yeah, half of E75 is the powerful gun, because I laugh at E75s I encounter when they’re stock, like most tanks.
compact nymph
I remember once facing a platoon of E 75s using the 8,8. Always keep your free exp for really bad stock high tier grinds and don’t judge a tank’s performance if it’s stock.
lyric sentinel
They need improvements on balancing players... I went down 0.20% down, can you WARMING explain to me wthell it’s happening??? How you guy balance players? Because I have like 15 rounds lost in a row! It’s nasty....
drifting depot
Broken English rants, but we get the idea so I'll just let you know this game is rated 7, has one of if not the most toxic community I've ever seen and the average win rate is like 47% or some sht
Oh yea and gotta ping him: @lyric sentinel
frozen summit
@lyric sentinel u want balanced match? go play ranked
noble siren
@frozen summit jokes on you. It is as bad as normal matches...
lyric sentinel
I did not know that by posting a comment a defender would come out, you should go play clash of clans and stop talking so many stupid things! And if my English is bad, that's not your fking problem!@drifting depot
unique scaffold
@reef lynx Why wz120 is better than t54?
crystal spoke
@lyric sentinel 15 battles is a very lowe sample size also luckily they dont balance players and its mostly random as it would take extremely long to get into matches aswell as eventually fail as it would bring everyone to 50% if its directly matching equal players
also fyi removing a letter from a cuss is still viewed as cussing which mods dont some to appreciate
rancid drift
After a second session full of losses, I still think the t49 line is severely overpowered. I’m rating battles my t28 defender and m6 exp are regularly front penned by t49s that do 500-800 damage per shot, while tank destroyers in the same tier struggle to do that, while the t49 has a distinct mobility advantage, and don’t get me started on atgms that seem to have unlimited pen! It is impossible to enjoy games from tier 7-10 because you will always be completely wrecked by a derp light. It seems to have taken the smashers place of “if you don’t have one on your team but the other team has one, you lose” it’s still blatantly overpowered. A t92e1 can pen the front armor of a e100 or Maus with ease and the sides or back with an he. I mainly use tank destroyers and heavies and I just can’t use them anymore
regal grove
E1 and Sheridan r annoying solely because of missiles, but only seem op bc they have the highest skill ceiling in the game. If you are Iverson, it’s broken. But not everyone’s Iverson. The T49 is balanced right now, does not need any changes. You think it’s broken but it’s funny because you didn’t play it when it came out. Also, you’re over exaggerating as an E1 can’t do anything against a Maus if it isn’t a 90 degree angle.
psst also T28 and EXP are a T49’s wet dream I have no clue why you’d be challenging them lmao @rancid drift
Although I agree that if the other team has more missiles they’re more likely to win, it’s solely on the player, not the tank.
rancid drift
My frustration is that the heat round of a Sheridan has 310mm of pen, and the e100s gun has 311. So it’s safe to say that these two guns are extremely similar, same penetration and a similarly long reload, but the Sheridan has immensely better flanking ability and all it needs to do is use its speed to get on top of a mound and it has eliminated and angling that armor has, and that isn’t to account for the fact that the missiles can be guided from any distance to do that. It’s infuriating how a t92 and a Sheridan will climb a small hill and spot me in my Maus within the first 30 seconds of the game then I’m down 1600 health before My team has made it half way to the first objective. And my argument for heavies is that why should I play heavies if the armor is meaningless, if I’m going to take the same damage but suffer in speed and a worse reload. Then there’s no reason to play them. I think the missiles should have a range also, many maps they will just camp in the back and spam missiles until my team is too low to challenge them when they do manage to find them. I’m frustrated that WG managed to make a perfect tank with very few weaknesses as opposed to how many other vehicles are over balanced for fairness
regal grove
If you know a missiles coming at you and it’s from a long range it’s so easy to block it. I’ve blocked the last 6 missiles coming at my Mauschen because you can literally hear a 45m/s whizzing coming at you. And btw the only place they can pen you is the cheeks and LFP.... it’s not that hard to angle the completely negate any ranged missile shot.
And also comparing Sheridan to super heavies is invalid bc now they have almost twice as much HP as a Sheridan and it’ll take literally over a minute to take one out in a 1v1. I haven’t had so much fun in an E100 in a while. Btw I’ve seen many Maus platoons roll over teams with 3 missle tanks. This mechanic’s been in the game for a while now and it’s not that hard to counter 🙂
rancid drift
I often don’t have the time to react to an atgm, especially with the Maus’ extremely slow movement. Plus if an atgm is coming straight at me, I can’t do anything to change the front slope of my armor as it comes down on my front armor, but even then since the Maus has only 200mm of front armor not much angling is needed to get a pen when it has 310 of penetration. It would be easy to steamroll the lights like you say if they don’t move, but even other heavies can out rotate my turret, and once they’re at my side or behind, they can use regular rounds or even he and do upwards of 1000 damage per shot which I can’t do with an he to them because of the spaced armor. In the Maus it’s extremely hard to counter and I did try the platoon of mauses and we lost 10 games in a row. And typically sniping lights aren’t hitting your front armor either which means they won’t use their atgms. It’s infuriating to me to take a significant amount of damage from a tank with better concealment and accuracy than most tank destroyers, and it’s able to fill more rolls than any other vehicle on the field. And while yes, the Maus has the most health out on the battle field, in a 1v1 that just makes the time they spend circling you longer. It’s just angering to play a game that is balanced through upsides and downsides, each tank has strengths and weaknesses, and usually they’re equal. Then you see a new line introduced where the vehicles have almost all strengths and few weaknesses, and don’t say their armor is bad because the angling of their armor allows for easy bounces If you do it right
jagged crescent
I deflect missile shots with my e100, I don't think a maus would be any difference
drifting depot
@lyric sentinel bro I'm just telling you the facts, I'm far from defending holy sht ._. I'm even telling you bad stuff....
unique scaffold
<@&481447501690568709> someone needs to find out away to get a better translation in this game. This Spanish Russian french English communication on this really needs to be addressed. How are we supposed to communicate thru text of exactly how we can attack. Yes the pretty buttons on the right don't mean squat when you are doing formations. Please address this issue.
@unique scaffold we don't work for Wargaming. There is no reason to ping us for this. Also it has nothing at to do with #tank-balance-discussion
@unique scaffold i due apologize for pinging the wrong people. Now where do i post this, An to who so this can be corrected.
Send in a support ticket.
drowsy plaza
.warn @lyric sentinel language
@rancid drift your ranting about issues inside your control. The T28 D and M6 EXP have weak sides and rear ends Dont give them to the enemy. The other issue is your Maus comment - duh it’s a giant super heavy - angle bounce and laugh.
rancid drift
I was talking about front armor, all of my complaints were about frontal attacks, if they were through the sides I wouldn’t voice them because that is my fault. My complaint is that they should not be able to pen the front armor because most other tanks cannot do so
drowsy plaza
Most a T49 can do frontally against the EXP is splash.
Same with the T28 D
But sides is another story
Either way you frontally you can put trade him easily.
regal grove
^^^^ T49’s wet dream is an EXP or T28’s sides, don’t ever try to 1v1 a T49 without knowing that you can keep your distance or not
Lol I saw one the other day as a red but when it approached me I went from panic mode to straight up laughing
drowsy plaza
Best aspect is not to be alone in either of those two tanks due to the side and rear weaknesses
@regal grove oddly I see around 50% of T49’s these days on NA running the 90mm and getting seriously outgunned. It’s glorious when it’s a red. Not so great when a green.
rancid drift
I see those diagrams and I’m confused I guess, I’ll peek out from a building or something facing fully front, no sides exposed one flat metal plate is all they have to shoot, then I take 600 damage with that nice expensive hiss of a heat round and I’m only able to get one 350 damage shot off
frozen compass
I feel like the IS-7 needs some love. It isn’t the tank it used to be. Give it back it’s old armor and increase the traverse for the turret and hull by 35%. The tank isn’t really that great when compared to tanks like the IS-4, WZ-113, and FV215b. It can’t side-scrape that well either
drifting depot
Only place I wouldn't see it viable it's ratings or tournaments, go use it anywhere else since you don't really need to angle in order to make the armor effective cough and don't complain if you get penned, being a heavy doesn't mean you should be unpennable and the fact that most people need pramo is more than enough 😔
quartz crown
I think the is-7 is fine as it is, its the fastest for a reason as a niche pick. Having every heavy be an is-4 creates more problems than fixing them. Also psa, if you're sidescraping in it, please just play a is-4
mellow cape
Biggest issue with IS-7 is the pramo pen, it gets only 303mm APCR pen which effectively makes it the worst tier 10 gun in terms of pen