I love to death being able to rush a KV-2 once it’s fired and and kill it before it can reload, and I want the case for the 183 to be the same
#tank-balance-discussion
main tulip
atomic hound
Ok, np. @tacit mulch
tacit mulch
@main tulip but the 183 is always in the back, good luck getting there in time
main tulip
Nerf the camo buff the armour nerf the accuracy to the ground, force them to go frontline
tacit mulch
Make it like a t49 but with armor you're saying.
atomic hound
Flat armour like the 183 has is obsolete anyway, that wouldn't help. @main tulip
twilit crystal
@unique scaffold you know a credit coefficent nerf is the best thing here as it would a horrible tank if it was nerfed further
unique scaffold
I concur.
tacit mulch
@twilit crystal i just tried a couple of rounds with prem acc and no, you cant break even.
main tulip
@atomic hound uhh no it has some angles on the turret and the upper glacis has a steep angle
twilit crystal
fair enough but it should be punishable. Too many idiots play the 183 camping at the back and ruining hte meta. THey should be charged a lot too play it
orchid grove
@tacit mulch Even if you can't break even, you're not losing credits fast enough. One game in a tier 8 prem will fund several 183 games
main tulip
@tacit mulch um no bc it has crap mobility, no light tank camo and no fully traversable turret
atomic hound
You could give the whole thing 280+mm effective and it'd still be paper, people would just switch to heat. Is4s, e5s, t57s with 370mm heat laugh at at anything that hasn't got crazy angles, and the 183 just doesn't.
tacit mulch
Since I lost 1/3 of my games I lost about 50k credits over 3 games
twilit crystal
^ with a premium account im guessing you lose like 10k creds per game on average. Then I can play one tier 8 premium and get maybe 80k credits back So that 8 183 games for 1 premium tank. Even assuming without premium time you should use certificates to grind credits and you might like 30k without a premium. Then its 3:1
Instead actual losses should be something like 150k tbh so that you have to play another tank twice for every 183 game. thats the price of fun for you
atomic hound
@twilit crystal you lose way more than 10k average. You lose 10k on a good winning game.
It probably averages between 20-30k for me already.
@main tulip then they can't shoot, or you get lucky. E50M is butter unless it has a very good angle, and the 183 would never get that without great traverse, which isn't gonna happen again.
tacit mulch
Guess it already forces you to play other tanks huh
main tulip
Do you realize how insane the angle is on the upper glacis @atomic hound ? It’s a comparable angle to a T54 or E 50M and I bounce heat from IS-4’s etc in e 50 m all the time
twilit crystal
u have to play another tank once in a while as @orchid grove said its not enough to actually force other games
tacit mulch
Yes let's let people have to buy premium tanks just to have fun! @twilit crystal
twilit crystal
uh everyone has an is5 these days. If you have a tier ten before an is5 you are rushing tbh
tacit mulch
Lets make people have to spend money to play a bad tank for fun
main tulip
How in the h*ll are these derp tanks even fun, I find absolutely zero fun in missing half my shots, no thanks
twilit crystal
then why do people play it so much if its bad? Coz its fun. People literally grind through entire badfest thats the AT line to get the 183.
tacit mulch
Is5 doesnt make that much credits tbh, mind you I lost 50k in 3 games with a prem account in my 183
atomic hound
I did that, it want worth it even before the nerf. Huge waste of time, credits, and free exp
orchid grove
@tacit mulch How the heck are you losing credits dude. The thing literally makes credits even if you go AFK
main tulip
Dude @twilit crystal I want to play the AT line but I don’t want to play a derp tank like the 183 if you paid me to do it
tacit mulch
@orchid grove with 183 not is5, my mistake, should have clarified
uncut osprey
Why would anyone wanna play the AT tanks
twilit crystal
is5 makes 50k easily with a premium and probably 75k Any tier 8 premium makes creds
main tulip
@atomic hound E 50M is not butter, the upper plate is insane, turret is med proof and the mantlet is troll as hell for big guns firing pramo
tacit mulch
I get 30-40k in is5 while I get 100k in löwe
orchid grove
@main tulip Adam_255 has already proven himself to be a moron lol
main tulip
I get more bounces in E 50M than I do my IS-5
atomic hound
@main tulip oh, and the angle means a whole lot less when every heavy is shooting down on you.
It is butter to 370mm heat tho. I will give you a sense of how stupid it is, give me a moment.
twilit crystal
anyway why shouldnt people have to pay money to buy a premiumt o play the 183? You ruin tier ten games with the meta you cause
drowsy plaza
Play base needs a buff.
main tulip
@atomic hound wtf the E 50M is taller than most heavies lmao, and you’d be surprised by how few people fire pramo these days
twilit crystal
Its clear the demand for the 183 is very high despite it being the worst tier X. So we cant nerf it further so the only possible nerf is credit coefficient to 0% with quadruple shell cost and double repairs
tacit mulch
183 get a hesh pen in 1 out of 5 games, it's not game breaking after the buff and you already go through the at line, thats why
twilit crystal
its not gamebreaking but its meta breaking lmao. I legit want to compare games with and without 183s in tier x
atomic hound
@main tulip I was on about the height of the 183, sorry, should have been clearer.
And I'm not saying the e50m is bad, far from it, its a great tank.
Anyway, Ive not spent money on armour inspector, so I used this tank with 50mm more frontal armour than the e50m to illustrate my point
main tulip
@atomic hound and if they’re running calibrated shells for that pen I’ll dpm the heck out of them
uncut osprey
With is a camp fest, without is nice gameplay
twilit crystal
Tier nine is so much better overall. The tds in nine are much more focused on dpm and the meta overall is better
main tulip
@atomic hound might want to use a different example we all know full and well that the IS-4 is OP
tacit mulch
Having a meta is bad because it means there is no variety in gameplay.
atomic hound
@main tulip I was always on about the is4 with heat, it's the same with the e5 and the t57. You said you bounced it all the time, which I believe, but you certainly can't count on it, and that would butter a 183 even with major armour buffs.
main tulip
@atomic hound like I said you don’t see a lot of people spamming HEAT these days, especially since it always seems to randomly bounce...
atomic hound
@main tulip clearly you don't play the maus then lol... Or the e100, for that matter.
tacit mulch
And you're saying people should buy a premium tank and account/spend real money to play a tech tree tank which is known to be one of the worst and least competitive tanks and you have to get by going through the whole AT line? @twilit crystal
main tulip
And the main problem I have with the TD meta at tier 10 is that no heavy can rely on their armour completely since people can just HE them for 3-400 dmg anyway
lunar niche
Me in my Jagdtiger gets HEAT spammed all the time even in tier X matches.
twilit crystal
if its so bad then why is the most played tier ten even after a nerf?
tacit mulch
Because its fun some of the time
atomic hound
Heat spam is common, idk how you've not noticed this. Jesus, I get heat spammed at me playing a borsig or a leo 1 at least one time a day
twilit crystal
so yeah people should pay real money to have some fun. Mind you I have 4 tier 8 premiums without spending a single buck
west torrent
@tacit mulch Meta is unavoidable. And it’s not bad, nor does it prevent variety. It’s really always changing with balance and as counters are discovered
tacit mulch
Check context
@twilit crystal mind you not everyone does, I don't, alot of people don't.
main tulip
I hardly ever get hit by pramo even in the VK 100 P
lunar niche
@main tulip what kind of players are you getting matched against? Lol
atomic hound
That's because nobody can pen that thing any better with the prammo half of the time...
tacit mulch
Pramo still bounces off the vk 100 lol
uncut osprey
Vk is balanced tho
main tulip
Idk guys I just never seem to go against people who even know pramo exists. Unfortunately my own team is usually equally useless...
tacit mulch
No don't change this into a MM cry chat
atomic hound
At least the VK is good borsig food lol
uncut osprey
Its not 7 v 7 its 1v13
orchid grove
Just played 2 games in the 183. You can definitely still make credits
ashen tiger
Posit1ve you have achieved insta-pleb by playing that tank
tacit mulch
Show screeenshots? @orchid grove
main tulip
Why are the most common tier 10’s also the worst ones, like the IS-7
orchid grove
@ashen tiger It was to prove a point. Also, it's still easy AF to play lol
atomic hound
@main tulip is7 is at the end of a popular line, and was previously overpowered.
orchid grove
And I'm not even a good TD driver
main tulip
All IS tanks are pretty meh now except for the IS-4
tacit mulch
Like you get 6k damage every game
atomic hound
^^^^
orchid grove
@tacit mulch That was literally the 2nd game I played lol
ashen tiger
@main tulip that is why glorious Obj 252U is coming - the new and improved IS-tank
tacit mulch
Then don't judge stats after a single game or so
atomic hound
So you're claiming you get 6k every second game? No? So your point is void.
ashen tiger
No his clan is Void
uncut osprey
So your saying a good player cant get 6 penetration in one game very often?
main tulip
Lmao @ashen tiger WZ-112-2 was also an improved IS tank
unique scaffold
Positive isn't a good player. He is a very good player. I've seen it with my own two baby blue eyes.
atomic hound
@orchid grove you wanna see 6k games in another tank for credits? This was back last time they had 5x exp on, not a birthday.
orchid grove
@atomic hound You've got a completed mission there bud
uncut osprey
U had a mission in that game
atomic hound
Ah, good point, I'd missed it.
teal olive
@twilit crystal know you said this while ago but Jesus why nerf the credit coefficient on the 183?? Credits are horrible at tier ten, i agree the 183 needs more changing but not its credits.
twilit crystal
yeah that looks like around 62k credits
atomic hound
uncut osprey
This is how i expect credits to be
twilit crystal
@teal olive because it doesnt need more changing. The tank stats are fine but too many people play it so therefore you should be forced to play other tanks. It lowers the demand for it by using an alternative route by changing mm rather than the tank itself. Its basic econ
teal olive
@atomic hound why, put those screenshots somewhere else
orchid grove
Here's a 6k game in the heavy version; similar credits
atomic hound
So it doesn't make credits better than other tier 10s, which was my point.
@teal olive no, it was relevant.
orchid grove
@atomic hound Which is why me and wannabeunicum want to nerf the coefficient
teal olive
Great idea! Everyone! So lets just get huge damage games all the time so we dont get negative creds! (Not sarcasm at all)
atomic hound
@orchid grove if it already doesn't make more than everything else, and the tank is garbage, it doesn't need a nerf, you're just being spiteful.
twilit crystal
again the point is that you dont lose credits fast enough so people gonna continue to spam it. The choice to lower demand is either a statistical nerf(the tank is garbage enough already) or a credit coefficient nerf
tacit mulch
I havent seen it getting spammed recently
modest lotus
must be nice
atomic hound
Same. Way less common than before.
teal olive
Honestly I think you should AT LEAST make as much credits at tier ten as previous tiers. I can’t afford losing 100K every three games!
tacit mulch
Also let me remove my screenshot before I get a warning
twilit crystal
atomic hound
Screenshots are fine if they're relevant, which they were. Check the rules. @tacit mulch
tacit mulch
I don't want to risk it
orchid grove
@atomic hound I'm not gonna lie, I am spiteful. I've already said so; I don't mind the tank itself, I just hate the drivers behind it who just play it nonstop
tame bronze
Can’t believe I just sat and read all this 😂
modest lotus
@orchid grove preach
tacit mulch
No one plays it non-stop since most of the time you get 1-2k dmg and lose 25k credits
unique scaffold
183 issue solved yet?
atomic hound
@orchid grove yeah, I know that, I just don't understand why you're in a conversation about balance when you don't want balance. You also have some issue with me for reasons I don't understand.
twilit crystal
the top 2 tanks spammed are the 183 and kv2 (SHOCKING) botht anks need a credit coefficent nerf. They get spammed way too much
tacit mulch
It will never get solved.
unique scaffold
Nerf the credit earning and set a cap of two TD's per team. Problem solved.
atomic hound
Still not balanced, that just fixes the meta and reduces spam (something I also want, btw)
teal olive
They need REMOVED. They’re both ridiculous. The 183 issue has already proved unsolvable. It’s not fit for blitz. The KV2 is arguably worse (But its at low tiers so nobody gives a darn)
twilit crystal
https://www.blitzstars.com/player/com/Silver81 https://www.blitzstars.com/player/com/Nam_tran_defender Two players with very different stats who still spam it.
unique scaffold
@teal olive let's watch the language please.
tacit mulch
Never remove the gulag express else ill just move to pc
teal olive
Sorry @unique scaffold (Edit: there, fixed it)
atomic hound
@twilit crystal some players are always gonna spam it.
unique scaffold
@teal olive thank you. 👍
tacit mulch
But everyone gets crap for playing it, I did too when my screenshot showed I still had my 2x bonus for the day. But I get called a 183 spammer
twilit crystal
So the solution is to lower the credit coefficient here? Its either nerf the tank into oblivion where its so bad even if players spam it its super easy to counter or nerf the credit coefficient
teal olive
Loooool @tacit mulch (oooo changed that language just in time 😉 )
modest lotus
i mean they did it to the is7, why not the 183
tacit mulch
Never edited that fast in my life - on mobile*
teal olive
Haaaaa
twilit crystal
Atleast the good thing is that 183s are unusable in tourneys now as they should be(having that high rng in tourneys is dumb)
tacit mulch
They were never useable in tournaments, one team did in twister cup, got like 1k dmg
unique scaffold
The KV-2 is also a balance issue. The problem with tanks like the 183 and the KV-2 is that they appeal to low skill players. They allow you to exchange skilled game play for luck. In my opinion that is bad for the overall game. Many players that put down high damage games in the KV-2 and 183 struggle to do a ¼ of that damage in any other tank.
teal olive
183s and Jags have never been useable in tourneys, too unreliable
twilit crystal
^ The average scrub can only poke 4 times in any tank so th ekv2 and 183 rewards that. The kv2 should have been the collector
tacit mulch
Thats one way to call every 183 player a low skill player
orchid grove
KV-2 would have been removed, but it was too popular, so WG didn't do it
modest lotus
i mean, hes rite u know
atomic hound
@twilit crystal your objective is to make the tank unplayable, why are you even here...
@unique scaffold they appeal to everyone mate. Most bad players don't know they're bad (which is unbelievable, but talk to a few...)
It's fun doing inordinate damage per shot.
unique scaffold
@twilit crystal I agree. The T-150 makes makes much more sense as the lead in to the KV-3.
twilit crystal
it appeals to low skill players more. A good player would rather be in a autoloader like the amx 50b where they can actually carry and move around with gun depression
teal olive
Very true @orchid grove they’re wouldve been literal riots, the tank is too much of an icon for wot
orchid grove
I'm not kidding; that was WG's actual rationale when they left KV-2 untouched; they said so
atomic hound
Same with the otsu.
tacit mulch
Well I like to think of myself of an average player and I play the 183 like once a day because its different to other tanks, I dont spam it, just after all my games where I play serious tanks I like to play with the 183 for a couple of battles
teal olive
Naw, not many people have the Otsu, however, the few who do are veterans to the game and WG probably didn’t want to lose those players
atomic hound
If you think wg cares too much about 100 or so individual players with how much they make anyway, and the actual money those 100 represent to wg in the future compared to that, you're wrong.
twilit crystal
lets be serious the amx 50b has the ability to do everything the 183 does but better but it actually takes game knowledge to dish that 1200 dmg. Thats why the average pubbie doesnt go for the amx and t57 and goes for the 183
teal olive
True @atomic hound i almost forgot that they don’t really care about those guys... only the wallet warriors, my mistake
atomic hound
Nah, it takes game knowledge to do 1200 and live to reload. Any noob can rush in a 50b
tacit mulch
Well I only went for the 183 because I didnt want to play competitive tanks for the whole day
teal olive
57 and 50B are both fantastic tanks and it shocked me that they performed so poorly in the 5.7 charts... I guess too many noobs just get in the game, dump off a clip and then die
unique scaffold
The Otsu is a accounting error at this point and a new player will never see it until they have a bit of experience under their belt. It really didn't need any change. The only people who will ever encounter them are either grinding a new line or career clubbers. If it's the first example it's really not a big deal because after a handful of games you've moved past that point. If you are a career clubber I hope you get put up against a Otsu in every match
atomic hound
@teal olive the stats are for 55%-65% players.
@unique scaffold fair enough, unless you're a career clubber with an otsu.
teal olive
Wow.... okay I forgot about that bit... that’s pretty weird then actually. I expected better.
tacit mulch
Same
twilit crystal
yeah im happpy WG actually rigged mm in lower tiers(finally punish seal clubbers) thats about the only way WG actually rigs MM
modest lotus
@teal olive i just picked up the t57. great tank but i definitely understand why its average wr is so low. hard to survive in it cuz everyone knows they can pen it
unique scaffold
@atomic hound. A career Otsu clubber wears their own badge of shame.
teal olive
Maybe they’re just too team dependent when they’re on their reloads??
atomic hound
@teal olive having a clip of 1200 matters less when an is4 bounces 2 lol, maybe that's it?
@unique scaffold couldn't agree more.
tacit mulch
Tbh my only tier 10 is the 183 because I usually play the t49 and alot tier 6, I have it for over two months now but I only have 30 battles in it
teal olive
@atomic hound i have a clip of me bouncing a full clip on the IS4, close quarters, first lower plate, very slight angle, second, nearly flat side, third, completely flat side. Utter bs
atomic hound
You have your answer then.
teal olive
No, some stupid powerful heavy isn’t the reason for the decimation of autoloader’s Wr at tier ten.
atomic hound
50b is hilarious to play against too, pen the 30mm sides with HE if they aren't pointed dead at you. (Which they struggle to do if they're running away lol)
twilit crystal
I have genuinly horrible winrate in the t57(60%) but I think the amx is balanced overall. I wouldnt mind a side armor buff
modest lotus
its really difficult to not be everyone first target in it when your spotted
tacit mulch
Yes 60 is horrific ofcourse
modest lotus
lol im 47% in it lol. got two aces tho. just feel like i get more unlucky in that tank
tacit mulch
I dont get how you can find 60% wr horrible
unique scaffold
Bat Chat needs a fourth round in the clip
modest lotus
working on it tho. @unique scaffold that would be neat 😃
atomic hound
It's already a good tank, leave it be. You want bigger clips, play pc.
unique scaffold
Or actual 105mm DMG rolls.
atomic hound
That I agree with.
modest lotus
ya 400 alpha would be sweet to
unique scaffold
A 105 with 100mm alpha is silly
Honestly I think the number of rounds in a clip is fine but the interclip is too slow. Should be 2.5 seconds between shots.
atomic hound
Again, it's fine as is, they've tested 2.5 and decided against it.
I think you mean intraclip too
unique scaffold
I respectfully disagree with their decision.
orchid grove
Honestly, for Bat Chat, I think the role needs to redefined as more of a combat medium rather than a light scout
modest lotus
id be cool if the other gun it has was useable and not just a steping stone. like give it a four shot clip like the ap so people can use which ever they like
tacit mulch
Have you tested it out though?
orchid grove
I'd give it 4 shells, 350 alpha, 3.1s between shells, and 26s clip reload (for a total of ~2370 DPM base), and take away the light tank camo; and leave everything else the same
Then I'd add AMX 13 105 with basically the same stats that Bat Chat has now as a replacement for the light tank role at tier 10
unique scaffold
@orchid grove. I agree... Except for the interclip.
atomic hound
Why call it a light tank then? Okay, you answered that in the edit, fair enough.
orchid grove
@atomic hound I don't want it as a light tank. I want it as a medium
unique scaffold
It should be a medium
atomic hound
@orchid grove even still, for it to have 200 more clip potential than the heavies is somewhat strange, maybe if the alpha was left untouched and it only had 40 more, with the interclip changed to keep DPM the same
main tulip
@atomic hound in PC the bc has way more clip potential then the heavies
atomic hound
True.
orchid grove
@atomic hound Giving Bat Chat 1400 clip potential vs 1200 on the 50 B/T57 would be proportional to the 1950/1600 relation they have on PC
atomic hound
Fair enough then, that seems pretty reasonable, although maybe the fact that flanking the enemy is significantly easier on blitz than pc should be considered, since in pc there are generally tanks on both sides of the map rather than just one.
orchid grove
The way I see it, 1400 isn't really completely out of line compared to 1200 on the heavies, and the Bat Chat here will retain its bad pen, so its more likely to bounce a shell or two
Also, it would diversify Bat Chat away from the TVP, which should have 3 shells @310 alpha and like 1.5s between shells
atomic hound
My point about the flanking was that popping up to the side of a tank and permatracking for 1400 before running away might be a bit too strong, idk.
orchid grove
I proposed nerfing the interclip to 3.1s, and trust me, sitting exposed for 9.3s is a really long time; enough time for heavies to actually return 2 shells back into you
atomic hound
If you have the positional and camo advantage (and you will) then they probably won't hit you more than once, and certainly won't in any of the non 400 alpha heavies, they don't reload that quickly.
orchid grove
It takes a couple seconds to pop in/out of cover and aim too, so even the tanks with ~10s reload like IS-7 can still return 2 in most cases
atomic hound
They take time to notice you, turn, and aim too.
orchid grove
And against something like a T-62, he can return fire 3 times total compared to 4, and you'll probably bounce a shell too
Also, the camo advantage won't be that massive, since I want them to take light tank camo away from Bat Chat
atomic hound
Not a great target for a BC even now though, let's be honest here, especially if the t62 pens HE
880 to 930 isn't much, but 620 to 930 still isn't great, and the t62 still has the overwhelming armour advantage
orchid grove
Also, don't forget the fact that the Bat will have to go on reload. Right now, the reload doesn't really have an autoloader feel given that its only like 13s, but I'd propose doubling that to 26s to make it more substantial (and a 26s reload wouldn't be out of line considering the Defenders and 50 120 have longer reloads)
atomic hound
Honestly, I'm pretty much in full agreement with your proposition, but I'm concerned (maybe it'd be ok in practice, I'd have to see it to find out) that the opportunity to clip out and run away is a little overcooked
orchid grove
The way I see it, we already have the 50 120, which has more clip potential for its tier, and also excellent mobility, and that tank is balanced
atomic hound
Why drive a 50b if you could drive your version of the BC. It's faster, better clip potential, better camo, better view range, holds up to HE probably better due to such terrible and huge sides and rear on the 50b. All you get for the 50b is 50 alpha and more pen.
orchid grove
With a higher clip potential/lower DPM bat chat, it'd be kind of a high risk/reward tank. Poor use of the magazine will get you killed by low DPM and a long reload, but good positioning and good plays will be rewarded with the ability to do a substantial amount of damage
@atomic hound Gun depression, pen, armor, and faster unload time
50 B needs just a fraction of the exposure time, it can actually bounce shells, and it has 10 degrees gun depression, and can shoot through heavies frontally, also better DPM
atomic hound
Gun depression, fair enough, but the armour advantage is only from the front, and it isn't that much really.
Again, I'm only asking the question, not saying your idea is a bad one here
orchid grove
Basically the same reasons you would pick a 50 B over a batchat on PC (and when I play them on the test server, I actually do better in the 50 B there lol)
atomic hound
Bear in mind that in 6.2 seconds the BC would do 1050 damage compared to the 1200 in 6s for the 50b, not a massive difference there
orchid grove
Having played a tank with 1050 damage per clip (the pre-nerf T54E1) I gotta say, that difference is actually pretty substantial
And with low pen, the bat is likely to bounce a shell anyway, and the 50 B would have a ~200 DPM advantage
atomic hound
Perhaps from the front, but the BC can more easily get to softer armour, you didn't propose a mobility change
200 DPM isn't that huge for an autoloader either, especially since both with get shredded on their reloads anyway
orchid grove
If that isn't enough to balance it, a slight nerf to the Bat's gun handling could be done to limit its ability to hit shells on the move
Honestly, I think the combined effect of the low pen, low DPM, and lower gun depression would be enough to balance out the slightly larger magazine
atomic hound
That's worth thinking about, yeah (not that wg will likely implement any of this, but hey...)
orchid grove
I know it's unlikely WG will even consider any of this, but it's fun to dream. Because when TVP comes this year, Bat and TVP are gonna be almost indistinguishable; it'll just be a trade between unload time vs. camo
For the sake of variety, Bat desparately needs to be redefined
atomic hound
3s unload time is a massive advantage over 6s
I do agree with the variety bit, naturally, the more variety in the game without breaking it the better, my favourite tanks are the ones that are different, it's one great aspect of the game.
I'm still waiting for wg to buff the grille 15 too, good god does it need it.
teal olive
Lol you guys talk of the TVP as If WG will give it its quick upload time... do you really think they’ll do that? It’s not like they haven’t done it to every other autoloader transferring them PC to blitz... what’s stopping them from nerfing the TVP unloading time, too?
orchid grove
If they don't give it the unload time, it'll just be a fat bat chat
atomic hound
I doubt they'd remove the one thing that makes it unique on pc.
That said, the t69 is just a fat 13 90...
orchid grove
T69 has armor though
teal olive
Literally just aim and you’re fine, it’s like the 57, you’ll get a lucky bounce off of the turret sometimes but that’s it
atomic hound
Tvp definitely has worse armour tier for tier than the t69, I just checked. @orchid grove is right.
orchid grove
Like, other than the unload time, since Bat Chat has a tiny magazine on Blitz, there'd be literally nothing to set TVP apart from the Bat Chat on Blitz. Since TVP has a 4 shell magazine on PC, and a 100mm, it would translate to 3 shells and 310 alpha on Blitz, and both are fast paper tanks
atomic hound
Unless they gave the tvp a bigger clip, which I suppose is possible, even if it is unlikely.
orchid grove
I'd personally rather they gave the Bat Chat the bigger clip because having the TVP do more than the Bat in my head just seems so wrong
atomic hound
If you acted like the current BC was actually the AMX 13 105, they could justify giving the tvp its 4 shells
orchid grove
Unfortunately, I think that WG do indeed see the Bat as an AMX 13 105, which is actually super disappointing.
atomic hound
People on pc were saying for years that the BC should have been a light tank, before the 13 105 was a thing
orchid grove
It's really kind of unfortunate that Blitz doesn't have that fast assassin tank playstyle; and it makes me sad
atomic hound
Actually, now I think about it, your BC could fully clip out a wt auf pz 4, perhaps even a grille...
100% with a ram too
orchid grove
Well, to be fair, the 50 B comes close, and with a ram, it can clip them out too
50 B with HE has 1500 clip potential
If they gave the bat the same HE damage as the Leopards and STB, then it would only be 1600 clip potential
atomic hound
Much easier to ram in what would move like a light
orchid grove
A bat going full speed would do 195 damage to a Grille in a ram The Bat would take 303 in return according to armor inspector
atomic hound
I don't think the grille needs another thing to screw it over rn tbh, though more because it's bad than anything else.
1800 hp on a grille, 1600 from the HE and 195 from the ram... Youre gonna kill him 50% of the time, and that's from full hp...
orchid grove
Well, to be fair, the 50 B does 300 damage in a ram, and does 1500 damage from the HE; which ends up being the same thing
atomic hound
Again, a whole lot easier to ram in a BC than a 50b, it isn't even close.
twilit crystal
he on a grille isnt reliable. Unless its like afk i just ap most of the time
orchid grove
I ram way more things in the 50 B than the Bat Chat
Bat takes way too much damage when you try to ram things
atomic hound
True, but if he isn't pointing at you it isn't so dodgy, and it turns barely faster than a maus
@orchid grove you're telling me you wouldn't trade 300hp for a whole 1800 hp grille?
twilit crystal
if he isnt pointing at you you can hit the tracks and the side turret is super small
orchid grove
Honestly, that's more of a Grille being bad issue than a hypothetical bat chat being OP issue|
@atomic hound He's also going to shoot you in the face for 640, so that's half your HP for the game
atomic hound
I did mention that, yeah. Worth considering tho
twilit crystal
Tbh Kranvagn could be 360*3 in blitz. Then again its a heavy so WG doesnt hate it as much as they hate fast autoloaders
orchid grove
Ew
Considering the thing already has trash pen, there's no need to make the gun worse
atomic hound
@orchid grove only if you mess it up, if you get behind him he is dead, as I said, turns barely faster than a maus
twilit crystal
i guess in that scenario if the bat gets 4 shells a he removal might be justified
orchid grove
@atomic hound He has a turret, and it takes the hypothetical bat chat 9.3s to unload; trust me, the Grille can turn 135 degrees in 9.3s
atomic hound
And a BC can stay behind a grille for 9.3s no issue, if I can butcher them in a leo I could do it in a BC (I don't have it)
orchid grove
And this hypothetical bat chat also needs to hit the Grille while its going full speed to ram kill it
I don't really see a realistic scenario where the Bat Chat actually manages to kill the Grille in one clip and get the ram TBH
twilit crystal
yeah 9 seconds is hella long. Its either one of 3 things that happened if you get full clipped. A. It was a yolo batchat early game who got lucky, B You were an isolated idiot or C its endgame and thats its strengths
atomic hound
You could ram first? Accuracy isn't that bad once you get close anyway
It's more that if a grille takes a single hit, even only a splash, from anything in the game, it becomes instantly very easily clippable
orchid grove
Also, this is assuming the 1v1. If the Bat Chat can get a Grille caught completely in the open without support (while he's fully loaded too, and hits all 4 shells), he kinda deserves to get the kill
twilit crystal
^ If you camping at the back isolated that should be the batchats sttrengths to kill camping tds
orchid grove
In practice, having played the Bat Chat, I know the number of times you could get a full clip out without getting wrekt is actually fairly limited
twilit crystal
yeah i dont get how the batchat with 1400 would be broken if they properly changed reload considering the 50 120 goes with 1200 a tier below with more pen(aka reliably able to output dmg)
atomic hound
Actually, assuming you could HE pen the back of a t95 (probably can with cs, idk though) it has 1600 hp. Now you don't even need the ram.
twilit crystal
again stop camping at the back in a t95 and actually support your team. It should be a counter td. Anyway if you are a t95 you were dead even if it was a faster heavy
orchid grove
Honestly though, I'd be fine if they removed the HE shell for balance reasons
twilit crystal
yeah a HE shell removal would be justified as in PC NO ONE uses HE on the batchat due to super low ammo capacity and 45 sec reload to switch
atomic hound
That'd be my suggestion.
You don't even need to be camping, if your team is either dead or are vegetables (both common) then...
My old policy in the t95 back when I had it was never to stop driving btw, camping in it is the most unbelievable waste of time, especially now the lower plate is butter to prammo
twilit crystal
If its endgame thats also its strength. Id argue for a gun handling nerf to .14.
orchid grove
^^^
That's also reasonable; there's a lot of things I'd be willing to give up for some more variety in my life
atomic hound
So if they gave the BC 4 350 alpha shells, intraclip of 3.1s, DPM of ~2300, bloom of 0.14 , no HE we'd all be happy then
orchid grove
Don't forget about reclassing it as a medium
atomic hound
And that.
Would be nice if wg saw this, however unlikely that is.
twilit crystal
@orchid grove whats your opinion on the BS gravedigger vs 13 57 unload speed
orchid grove
Welcome to the horror show of tier 7 balance. The only tier in which we have never seen a balance chart is tier 7, probably because of how horrific the balance there is
twilit crystal
yeah its actually incredible how balanced tier nine is. Only problem with nine is the severe mm pull by tier ten
novel maple
So if the tier 7 lights are getting changed what is happening to the T71??
distant river
T71 is getting better reload and accuracy
twilit crystal
basically everything but the sp1c
ivory fractal
@unique scaffold English only and use #502019319417405441 for platoon requests
teal olive
Go figure, the most underpowered tier 7 light doesn’t get buffed...
twilit crystal
ik WG hates that tank
its actually insane how ez it is to play the kv2 after full equipment. Its also crazy how much it gets spammed
main tulip
I think everybody’s just forgotten about the Ferdinand, no?
brisk lily
I still see players in those tanks
though I can see your point
twilit crystal
ferdi was the worst example of WG balance. It was a really bad tank before and then during the tiger p buff they buffed it too. Everyone said the tiger pw as op BUT NO ONE said the ferdi was op. Yet because WG's garbage stats showed it was op they nerfed it and made it was worse than ever
teal olive
Ferdi is trash in literally every game I’ve played
iron lynx
Ferdi is supposed to have armor
But unfortunately basically every single tank can pen it except tier 7 lights/meds
visual nimbus
Still looks good
twilit crystal
because WG's stats usage is garbage 55 - 65 should never be used due to how wide the range is and it specifically be curved by percentage.
red condor
Vk100p is on top of the charts once again. That’s a bit of a hint for a needed nerf.
shy wren
Foch is even stronger amongst its peers.
Highest average DPB and more than a 3% lead against the second best TD
Surprised that the ST-I, Wz 111-1-4 and KpfPz 70 are pretty much similar in terms of WR and quite close in terms of DPB
twilit crystal
coz wgs stats are rigged and a majority of kpf players are 60+
wg literally doesnt understand how to get proper stats(which is just sad as the russian server is huge)
main tulip
VK isn’t even OP
strange scaffold
They're already nerfing the VK.100.01(P)
tribal summit
Will they make it slower? :)
strange scaffold
Probably less armor.
teal olive
Buff jageroo moar
junior prairie
So far only gun dispersion and aim time @tribal summit
tribal summit
Vk100 is op only if you reach fight zone in time :)
junior prairie
@tribal summit Just wait till u get t95, after that u will complain about reaching fight zone
iron lynx
VK 100.01 P staying on top of the charts even after a nerf.
I wonder how OP it is before.
indigo knot
I will be nerfed ....it hasn't been currently
meager spruce
@iron lynx yeah. VK 100 was never nerfed but it will be...
gloomy dragon
which kinda sucks since I got it just the other day. Oh well. Might as well enjoy the gun while I'm still grinding the crew.
unique scaffold
Wz 120 1 ft tho
dim field
Fortunately it's keeping it's armor. A lot of people kept wanting its armor and hp nerfed to where mediums and heavies could have an easier time penning it. From 3% decrease in specific spots to a steeper armor nerf like 50% everywhere.
shy wren
I’d rather have a 3% armor drop in the cupola, but it’s fine
lunar niche
Armour shouldn't be touched unless they give it superheavy lvl of HP.
And is Mauschen getting 200 HP nerf?
warm meadow
Wait what about the vk is getting nerfed
lunar niche
@warm meadow Dispersion and aim time.
deft owl
Lol again chart does not include wz 120-1g ft. Also Vk 100 is at top thats because m6a2e1 exp isnt in the list.
Vk 100 wont get nerfed imho. There are some premiums that have better overall winrates but isnt included in the list.
twilit crystal
the vk 100 has literaly been nerfed in the open test
unique scaffold
@deft owl it is being nerfed in the next update.
deft owl
@unique scaffold Oh. Dumb wg as usual. Release op prems but nerf rech tree tanks when they slightly better then some tech tree tanks. They should buff the other tech tree tanks not nerf vk 100.
Btw what will going to nerf? Dont tell me cuppola armor. That will make it beyond useless.
shy wren
Accuracy and aim time @deft owl
lament vessel
They will only nerf the aim time and dispersion...
unique scaffold
@deft owl. Gun handling is taking a hit. Armor remains unchanged.
lament vessel
It will continue op imo
deft owl
I hope it wont make it worse then russian heavies.
shy wren
0.46 dispersion, 2.9s aim time @deft owl
deft owl
@shy wren Whut? .46 dispersion? Wow why dont they give it worse handlings then Kv-2? Dumb wg.
shy wren
Gun’s larger than the IS-tanks, but smaller than KV-2’s.
deft owl
Its a german tank. Its suppose to have better gun handlings. Even with larger caliber.
For example e75 has better gun handlings then St-I. Even with larger caliber.
shy wren
Not really. Do you really want a superheavy tank that can just easily snapshot things with a 12.8cm gun at tier VIII?
It’s not a sniper tank anyways, so why does it need gun handling, as it is meant to frontline.
deft owl
@shy wren Snapshots has nothing to with base accuracy values.
unique scaffold
I didn't think the VK needed a Nerf but as far as nerfs go this one seems pretty fair.
shy wren
The bell curve is larger, so it’s less likely to hit them as frequently, albeit not by a huge amount
Anyways, the gun bloom stats are still better than the Russians. It’s gonna be 0.22, compared to the 0.25 on the Russians
clever mauve
Most lower tech tree tanks are getting engine horsepower nerfs 😦
teal olive
.... y tho
twilit crystal
😦 ik nerf the guns not the fun
old zinc
4000 coins it no good 😦
blissful vigil
😦
clever mauve
...but T2 light and VIC and T7 Car are getting more penetration 😆
And more damage per shot ~ up to 12 from 8
warm meadow
Oof
balmy cipher
vk 28 01 should be buffed it is fast and has got some armor but dpm sucks as well as gun depression
quick lichen
The vk 28 was arguably the most tank in the game before it was nerfed
atomic hound
Nobody cares about lower tiers anyway, at least from a balance perspective.
Wg included
meager spruce
@balmy cipher as a player who has 1.7K battles in VK28.01 I disagree
wraith lance
VK 28.01 is still the best tier VI light tank IMO
calm ruin
Yup
rancid flame
I’d say the MT-25 is pretty close
spark star
you are dumb if you think the 2801 needs a buff, its great as it
in fact I might even add that at its current state, its still the best out of all the tier 6 lights
speaking of game balance
yes I know this is the second or third time this week but VK 100.01P needs to be savagely bludgeoned to death by the nerf bat
open up the cupola, retune the sides, make the shot trap an actual weakspot instead of a gold ammo idiot magnet and if none of those are gonna happen
AT LEAST
nerf the BLOODY TRAVERSE
seriously this thing traverses really quickly for a tank its size with that kind of armor that its ridiculous
with the gun nerfs all it did was to make the tank luck based and continue to sponge up hits with minimal angling unless the LFP has a shot opened up, with the proper angling it could bounce even tier Xesque guns like the BL-10
this thing is stupid, as if its made to be attractive for the wehraboos who want to rush this thing
dim field
Traverse nerf would possibly be alright, not the armor nerf though
spark star
the cupola needs to be opened up somewhat, the whole tank is like a big middle finger to anyone who doesnt play it
at least give it some frontal weakspots so that it wont be completely mitigated by a simple hull down spot
yeah the gun nerfs are a nice change for everyone else but I really wouldnt think that will change anything aside from somewhat removing the wannabe mid range snipers from the matches
twilit crystal
CMV id rather have the original vk 28 in tier six than the kv2. The kv2 gets spammed so much in tier six these days. Its probably more than the 183 tbh because of how ez it is to get. Its insanely ez to play with equipment
main tulip
VK is fine as is, doesn’t even need a nerf
spark star
the 28 is fine as it is, not much need for a buff or nerf
the Chaffee however...
quick lichen
It’s funny that the mauschen is getting nerfed harder than the vk 100
twilit crystal
^. Literally no one complains about the mauschen
dim field
It's current weakspots are enough. No need to really do anything more to them. The traverse speed I can get behind based off what people have been saying about it turning to quick where they can't CoD it. The gun nerf I can maybe get behind because of the people trying to snipe with a super heavy
twilit crystal
the vk100p was a better kv4 in every manner but frontal speed(gun was clearly better with regard to handling pen was the same and better alpha and only slightly worse dpm) Mobility is better reverse and traverse. Better gun depression and clearly better armor
main tulip
Just sidehug the VK don’t try to CoD it.
Anyway it’s a good thing if it’s OP because it’s a nice change from OP premiums and IS spam.
spark star
does the Mauschen meet tier 7s? No?
well then why does the Mauschen get more nerfs then?
also whoever says that having weakspots that can only be penned realistically by three tanks is not right in the head, would say those people are having some sort of mental illness
twilit crystal
True the vk 100p is being nerfed coz its a great IS tank counter thx to its superior alpha and height
main tulip
@twilit crystal KV-4 needs to be buffed not VK nerfed
@spark star dude VK is not even that hard to pen, the lower plate is extremely weak
dim field
Saying people who disagree with you have a mental illness doesn't seem like a great way of convincing them to agree with you.
spark star
yeah so? Just hide the lower plate easy victory
cupola doesnt need change huh?
how about those cheeks? that doesnt need changing too hmm?
lmfao get the hell out of here
twilit crystal
uh the is3 has a freaking invcible turret gtfo out of here
main tulip
@twilit crystal yeah the IS-3’a turret is literally unpennable after the model change
spark star
of course Im gonna be agressive to those who sides with the 100.01 not needing any armor changes
if a tier 9 TD is already having problem with a tier 8 hull down with clear "weakspots" then I'm pretty sure something is wrong with the tank and not with anyone elses
and thats why whoever says this thing doesnt need a cupola or a cheek nerf I will call a... hmm lets just say "someone who's blind to the issue at hand", end of story
for the IS-3:
well to be fair with you, the hull is sloped but not thick enough unless if the other pike is hidden behind something, the only way you wont get your hull penned on an IS-3 is when you get your shot baited or youre in a tier 7 medium with not a lot of pen
twilit crystal
ACTUALLY tier nine heavy tanks using calibrated shells and gold can pen it. I used gold ammo with the t34 in a facehug and cant pen the is3 turret and dont tell me to aim ik how to play. The t34 has tier nine pen
spark star
the IS-3s turret weakspot can only be hit if youre above it (and when you are, the unangled hull or the engine bay is a much better spot to shoot) or if youre taller than it (like in something German)
for the VK 100, either you love it so much that you dont want it nerfed (because lets face it, being in something disgustingly overpowered for you and everyone in your team) or you hate it so much that if it were up to you, you'd give it the worst stats possible
guess which side am I on
seriously it keeps me up at night on how people think having non LFP weakspots that can only be reliably penned by two of the same tier heavies is a fine and grand idea
twilit crystal
i dont even play the vk much lol. My stats in it are completely average for my tier 8s
dim field
Currently i don't have much trouble using tier 7 to fight the vk, so not exactly gonna be on board with your nerf proposal. I'm also pretty sure your comment about people disagreeing with you having a mental illness breaks the rules but that's not my call to make.
The vk is a super heavy and if it's hulldown it's up to you to figure out how to deal with it. Personally i do one of the following things everytime i go against a Vk.
- Aim for the lower plate or cupola
- Become friends with a TD
3)Play as a td in future matches if it's too big of a problem - Go around it
- Side hug it.
- Talk to a teammate and double team it
- Attack from a different elevation
- Avoid the Vk for the time being and focus other targets.
And since people have tried to bring it up before and accuse me of not being in favor of nerfing the vk because i stat pad in it I'm going to be proactive here and say I do not own the Vk 100.
spark star
its this gigantic wall of doom for anyone even meds and lights due to how stupid the traverse is
some can even say its a gold magnet
with that out of the way, how about a PTA gun depression buff?
unique scaffold
I don't play the VK and I don't see it as OP. The problem with the tank is that the player base is dumb. The tank is there to soak up shots for the rest of the team. Don't play its game. Avoid it, kill its allies, save it for last, and then kill it. The tank isn't that big of a deal.
meager spruce
It is not op as it is slow but it is not perfectly balanced as it has a bit of everything except speed.
spark star
you know I have a lot of things to say about the three of you right now but Im not gonna say it...
something always told me that if I dont have anything good to say might as well shut up
unique scaffold
Fortunately I don't care what your opinion of me is. @spark star
twilit crystal
its ez enough to outplay a vk in a med just avoid it. However against iS tanks it rekts them as it should but because IS tanks are the majority of tier 8 gameplay the vk 100 is op
spark star
no need to ping me about it but lemme return the favour @unique scaffold
distant river
Girls girls, you are both pretty. Calm down.
dim field
The amount of meds and light i see in game trying to fight a hulldown Vk is pretty high. They fight it at it's strongest and then complain (without even backing up into cover) about how stupid it is that they can't pen frontally pen a hulldown super heavy. Seeing so many people do that and the amount of IS spam are probably the only reason i think it does as well as it does in terms of average winrate. They'd rather nerf the obstacle than overcome it.
main tulip
@spark star umm the VK 100 with 220 mm of pen can pen other VK’s cupola, and most tier 8 heavies have 220 or more pen nowadays.
twilit crystal
IS tanks cant beat vks thx to their garbage accuracy
unique scaffold
Players not being smart enough to fight a tank ≠ the tank being OP.
dim field
Well the Vk was intended to combat IS spam
spark star
now for another german tier 8 heavy tank that is frankly in the other side of the sprectrum
Tiger 2
this tank seriously needs to be brought back from the ashes, the thing has hilariously bad armor but everything else it has its okay at it
but the Lowe takes a dump on it and so does everything else
dim field
I could possibly get behind a tiger 2 buff
unique scaffold
Tiger 2 could use some love.
spark star
and as much as it hurts me to say this, its the worst tier 8 heavy atm
its just so bad and yet its one of the best looking tanks in the game
unfortunately, beauty doesnt win matches and its beauty doesnt help it win any engagements against its peers
supple jolt
The only reason why most people still have the tiger 2 in their garage is because of the Christmas event attachments
dim field
Don't actually have it but it seems almost like a heavy with a mediums armor
twilit crystal
lol
spark star
maybe a UFP + turret buff would do it justice
and yes Hickory, this is a heavy tank with heavy mobility with heavy DPM with medium armor
the armor is just so bad that even tier 7s laugh at you
unique scaffold
Tiger 2 is the best tier 7 medium 🤣
distant river
The T-43 exists so that wrong
spark star
Comet would like to know your location
unique scaffold
I'm glad someone did
spark star
so uh Tiger 2 has no roles aside from support heavy at the moment
twilit crystal
kpf is the best tier 8 heavy
spark star
and be absolutely useless against in tier 9 matches?
twilit crystal
lol
lone warren
only 5k?
crystal spoke
Oof iraik be flexing
rigid wigeon
unique scaffold
oof
quick lichen
@rigid wigeon maybe...
unique scaffold
@quick lichen. Speaking of balance did you see my Lorraine WR after 100 games?
unique scaffold
dim field
Carry me diablo
unique scaffold
@twilit crystal low. I think I'm at about 20% over the past 30 days
twilit crystal
great job. Im gonna guess mm was defintely favorable to in that relatively small sample size but still really good
unique scaffold
It just fits my play style well. It's quick and that 4 shot autoloader is wonderful. I'll play conservatively for a bit and then zero in on anyone with less than 800 HP. I can usually clip them out pretty easy. Once the reds are down a tank or two the win is almost guaranteed. @twilit crystal
crystal spoke
Nah Spartacus seems to just be a good player
unique scaffold
I'd consider myself slightly above average.
twilit crystal
doing 1800 dmg and getting 80% winrate is definetely due to mm even if the lorraine is a tank that would be spotting. Spartacus is still a great player
unique scaffold
I understand map tactics and I have pretty good situational awareness. I struggle with twitch shooter reflexes which puts me at a disadvantage when I square off against the great players out there.
As far as the damage on the Lorraine goes I think my stats are a great example of effective damage versus ineffective damage. I tend to put the damage down where it need to be to affect the win.
When you have to wait twenty seconds to reload the clip you find yourself being a bit more picky about where that damage is going to go.
teal olive
And I thought by 71% WR 2100 damage was good...
twilit crystal
True but my amx 50 100 did 600 more dmg and did an expected 2400. its clearly within a favorable standard deviation. For example my t69 def got pref mm during its matches too as Ik I sucked in it
deft owl
Lorraine 40t is great except its damn aim time.
steep ember
of
main tulip
Pershing, Ferdinand, T95E2, 59-Patton, T-34-3 and VK 45.02 A could all use a buff.
undone coral
Spic needs a huuuge buff
main tulip
<@&481447501690568709> mute @undone coral
Racial slurs
undone coral
Why?
sage shoal
How exactly?
west torrent
@main tulip why did you ping us?
main tulip
Jk I know you didn’t mean it
“Spic” is a derogatory term for those of hispanic descent
undone coral
What have I said that's racist? I meant the sp 1 c you moron
jade cargoBOT
Yerriff#2150 has been warned.
main tulip
Lmao
I was joking lol
undone coral
Kewl hehe XD
west torrent
You @ed the whole mod team as a joke. That’s why you were warned. It’s like a “boy who cried wolf” scenario
main tulip
So I get in trouble for bothering you? Jeez
I feel like they should buff the mobility and gun a little, a removal of the tumor would make it OP
undone coral
Yeah buff that amazing awful tank give it more dpm and mobility ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
unique scaffold
@main tulip. Dude, Nothing personal but you suck at jokes.
main tulip
@unique scaffold yeah it wasn’t my best
distant river
Simple solution: don't play lower tiers
unique scaffold
If you are grinding a new line you should be out of low tiers in 50 games...max.
It's really not a big deal.
undone coral
What if we enjoy a specific tank in the low tiers?
wraith lance
Keep playing it..?
undone coral
What if it was nerfed to oblivion like every other tank?
wraith lance
Play something else?
undone coral
But my once joyful tank was destroyed
wraith lance
Happens to everyone at some point, just carry on ¯_(ツ)_/¯
undone coral
And anyways the huge difference in tank balance now has caused it to be harder for new players
lone warren
wow i lost a few braincells from that joke
is this what being a 30 wr player feels like
undone coral
?
lone warren
ahhahahahahahahhaha wow ur so funny
median gust
Stay on topic
undone coral
Destroyed in seconds
distant river
@alpine lichen if you enjoyed the playstyle in tier 4 and under i think you need to stop sealclbbing
undone coral
It's not sealclubbing when enough people sealclub ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
distant river
@alpine lichen what would you call it then?
median gust
Just don't put 10k battles in a Matilda
distant river
A fair fight? At tier 4 people have no clue what theyre doing, against you who i assume has some slight sense. That isnt fair
undone coral
With the horrid mm we've been getting, it's a fair fight in a 1v7 ; )
distant river
The lower tiers are designed for the new players to learn on, not for experienced players to bully the noobs
undone coral
Even then though, you gotta admit the rebalancing has completely screwed up the balance of low tier tanks, making it harder for new players to learn
distant river
It encourages them and other experiences players ( @alpine lichen) to not play the lower tiers and to actually improve and learn @undone coral
undone coral
Yeah but they rush the low tiers so quickly they learn almost nothing
distant river
Why should having a break be affected by the balence then? If you dont care about your WR then why care about the balence at lower tiers?
@undone coral some do, some don't. It will always happen in games
Again why does that matter if you dont care about the games, you are just there to relax?
undone coral
Every game has a system to separate new players from veteran players, like a league system. Blitz had the separation of low and high tiers (Except for rating battles but that's optional and nobody cares about rating battles) but now nobody wants to play low tiers including the new players
distant river
You seem to be complaining about something you say you dont care about...
Quite a lot of people care about rating battles
undone coral
As for the dpm thing new players will not like the game if they can't kill
distant river
Then dont play it then @alpine lichen , whats your problem?
undone coral
Dude stop taking us to square one
distant river
As spartacus said earlier, it should take about 50 games max to get there
undone coral
50 games is torture if it's not enjoyable
distant river
50 games is completely bearable. If you cant handle 50 games of peashooters then you might as well give up now
undone coral
about 5 hours of gameplay roughly for 50 games. Imagine all the new players who are gonna play the game for half an hour, realise how bad the lower tiers are and think the higher tiers are exactly the same and then leave
distant river
If it takes you 1k battles to get every tier 5 then you might want to start using boosters. Also why go for every tier 5?
Oh thank god spartacus is here to renew my faith in humanity
unique scaffold
@undone coral. You "enjoying" a particular tank in low tiers was a big enough problem that WG decided they needed to do something about it. Career clubbers in low tier were ruining the new user experience. Furthermore players who spent the majority of their time in low tiers were most likely less inclined to spend money on the game. This was a double hit to Wargaming's pocketbook.
Remember
distant river
@alpine lichen i have a casual account with 50 battles and over 100 boosters...
undone coral
Yet I never spent that much time in lower tiers. Most of my time was in higher tiers for a match, but when I keep losing due to teams then I go to the lower tiers for a little relax. Also there's a few tier 6 and 7s in that screenshot. Not what I'd define low tiers
Also holy jesus that's a lot of leo battles XD
unique scaffold
New players don't know any different and old players should be out of the lower tiers in less than 50 games.
Not a big deal
I don't see you making any valid counterpoints, only veiled snide remarks.
Thank you for your opinion. I appreciate you taking the time to type out your deep thoughts and sharing them with me.
uncut obsidian
Huh yeah sp1c needs a buff
unique scaffold
The SP 1C does need some luv.
brisk lily
SP 1 C needs less high speed hugs from Dracs
undone coral
Mobility is fine. Gun buff might be good though - would rather it be a light tank destroyer than a light tank
brisk lily
for me I would want that shell velocity increased
I can deal with everything else
crisp maple
gloomy dragon
I miss the SP. I still remember a cross map kill shot I did on a full tilt lttb on Castilla. Manually aimed and lead the shot. Was flabbergasted that it actually connected at that range and with those conditions. Dont play it anymore since they keep messing with its gun.
undone coral
They haven't touched the gun in a couple years
junior tulip
@crisp maple grinding that thing rn... Dear god it's awful. But look on the bright side, after you max it, you can say that you've defeated the dragon
jade cargoBOT
LoneReborn#0973 was banned
junior tulip
Rip
quick lichen
“It is high, it is far, it is ouuuuutttttttaaaaaa hereeeeee”
lone obsidian
hmm hardly check in here ..Probably a good plan not to check in ..
junior tulip
Lol
uncut obsidian
Wow that guy was kicked XD but yeah maybe buff the shell velocity
lone obsidian
now thats a good line change my mind well said @uncut obsidian
obtuse rover
Hm any of u guys thinking buffing T49 a little like more pen and reduce price of heat and he
For the 152mm
dim field
Please don't
shy wren
Well, it’s interclip is gonna be 3s instead of 3.5 @unique scaffold , decent change.
You can dump 450 alpha within 3s as compared to the 5/6s of dumping 480 alpha into the target in the Bulldog, T71 and AMX 13 75
twilit crystal
those tanks take 4 sec.
shy wren
My bad, thought it was worse than that.
main tulip
Just had a 0 dmg game bc of the fcking deathstar
brisk lily
rip
main tulip
I think there’s something wrong with the E 50M, I just rammed a patton head on and lost a few hp but he didn’t lose any
Wrong channel my bad
neon grail
Sp1c is literally a td playstyle
dim field
What do you mean?
brisk lily
if you're not the only light tank, stay away from sight and snipe if you have to
dim field
Hmm interesting
bronze temple
112 needs serious buff
i think its a really bad tank compared to other tier 8 heavies
its gun bounces other heavies sides and have bad side armor
atleast make it a collector so i can sell this pretty useless tank
cunning kindle
And here i am, who forgets the 112 even exists in the game unless i get reminded coz there r so many similar t8 heavies
odd girder
We removed strong derp guns from low tiers "BT-7art cough", "SU-76 cough"
unique scaffold
Hey don't touch by BT-7 Arty 😤
iron lynx
Well they did remove strong derp guns instead of weak derp guns.
distant river
@obtuse rover what the T49 needs is an accuracy buff. The bad pen can be compensated for if you can actually aim.
shy wren
One question, why does the AMX 12t possess a 130 alpha gun as its stock gun?
obtuse rover
Because the elc uses it and it got nerfed in 5.5 so they nerfed that dmg too because it's the same gun
shy wren
The 76mm SA49 is not tied to any low tier tank though @obtuse rover
Elc uses the SA32 and the SA44A
obtuse rover
Oh I'll check my sources but I'm sure that it got nerfed in update 5.5 because it's a tier 5 gun?
dim field
T49 with accuracy buff would possibly make the t49 op
shy wren
Nope. The Pz IV G has a tier V gun too, yet it does 160 alpha
distant river
@dim field it has low pen, low alpha for a 152, its life flashes before its eyes when it sees spaced armour and it has no armour itself
iron lynx
I don't think the T49 needs any buff rn.
Its ability to deal damage to literally any tank in the game and has the speed to escape is quite sufficient.
dim field
Doesn't it have camo and speed though? It's supposed to flank and be a back end threat. Go in and nuke from behind then get out. If you give it an accuracy buff it'll be a nightmare to face. If you want to buff the accuracy you're gonna need to nerf something else to balance it out. Either drastically reduce the dmg or something.
distant river
@iron lynx it can do damage to most tanks with HE, but that is only about 200 to heavies. With its 17 sec reload it is seriously lacking
iron lynx
And you'd think lights are supposed to outgun heavies?
distant river
Atm the T49 stuggles to hit any shot while moving, and fully aimed it is still not a good chance at mid range. A small accuracy buff would allow it to do something in the early stages of the game rathet than just cower at the back waiting for an opportunity to flank
shy wren
It’s a mobile derp carrier. What do you expect?
distant river
@shy wren i expect to be able to hit some shots at kid range without having to sit still for the 3 second aim time
dim field
Rip every Td, light tank, and heavy
shy wren
You seem to play the tank with the wrong style of play. Ambush, reposition, repeat is what’s ideal for the T49
distant river
Why? It would just mean that it could actually be able to do something in the first 3 minutes of a game
@shy wren ambushing at close range is very dangerous, and at mid range you are unlikely to hit or pen
shy wren
Did I say close range?
Ambush targets from where they least expect. Reposition, then rinse and repeat
distant river
No, but read what i said again
unique scaffold
From a realism perspective I think the T49 should be more accurate.
From a balance perspective I think the current accuracy is fine.
If I was going to buff the T49 I would give it back its pre nerd HE penetration and its pre nerd reload. Those items did not deserve to be nerfed. The module damage was the issue and it is now resolved.
dim field
You're able to almost do 1k dmg per shot (max dmg roll) it should be risky business. Otherwise you could whip around keep a ways back, nuke consistently with no risk and never even be spotted.
distant river
I would find the HE pen amd the reload fine if my shots were more likely to hit, qnd when they hit thry were better aimed
@dim field max damage roll is just over 800
dim field
Close to 1k
shy wren
HE does 780, max roll is almost 1000
unique scaffold
Just give it an ATGM and be done with it🤣
distant river
Ok my mistake, i thought it was 850 max HE dmg
Its still lacking dmg for a 152mm gun though
shy wren
If you cannot pen/unable to flank, just splash them, but at the cost of losing some credits.
They’re still capable of doing reasonable amounts of dmg
distant river
@shy wren then you do 200dmg if youre lucky
shy wren
Dmg is still dmg.
distant river
200 dmg for a 17 sec reload is good?
shy wren
If you’re unable to do much in the situation you’re in, yes.
But it’s hard to find situations like that. You’re a mobile derp cannon
unique scaffold
I've found the Heat rounds to be mostly reliable if you flank and aim correctly. The tank really doesn't need a accuracy buff.
distant river
It can be a good tank, but it needs to flank and not be spotted. With thr current ammount of spawn campers it is just not effective. It also needs to shoot from mid range to not get spotted, and that means its pretty likely it will miss or hit somewhere with better armour
shy wren
Hence why you should focus on the weakly armored targets first, ie the mediums/lights.
It can fulfill its role pretty well
unique scaffold
^^^
iron lynx
If you're forced to shoot heavies two minutes into the match, you're playing it wrong.
thick rover
Fv215b and Conqueror need some ammo loadout and speed limit help. Ammo loadout not justified when the Chieftain Mk6 exists
distant river
Tier 8 mediums will hase you and out dpm you. Generally your team will land 1 or 2 hits but still they will focus. This means after landinh 1 or 2 shots then you are dead or almost dead. Thats if you try and shoot at close range
At mid range the T49 stuggles to aim and hit targets, so it just cant be effective
shy wren
Why do you attempt to 1v1 a medium. You’re the harrasser, not them. Deal 560 alpha shots then reposition.
unique scaffold
You've got to play it smarter. It's a light tank. Spot early and sneak in a shot. Then fall back and go through your team to get unspotted. Pick a flank and the rinse and repeat. The tank is fine as it is right now.
iron lynx
It might be wiser to not 1 v 1 a medium tank in a light tank.
And if you're solo on a flank, don't.
It relies on distractions.
distant river
In some moments the T49 can shine, but it serious stuggles in most if the battles ive been it. Maybe its just unlucky MM, maybe its just me. I think that it could use an accuracy buff so it can be more effective in more situations. Fron what ive played i do 1k damage most games, withthe occasional great game, but its very rare
@shy wren you stuggle to deal the shots because they just struggle to hit...
shy wren
That’s the price of having such a large gun on an LT
distant river
@iron lynx you dont try and 1v1 them, they force you to 1v1 which you really dont want
iron lynx
Eh
The ability to deal 200 damage to any tank from any angle regardless of armor is a powerful aspect of the tank.
And don't forget the times where you're 1 v 1 ing a light tank.
distant river
@shy wren the pen and the 0 armour and the ability to not go through spaced armour is the price imo. The accuracy just seems like 1 step too many
@iron lynx compared to other LTs who can do 200 dmg mostly reliably to any tank but with a 5 sec reload...
shy wren
Look at PC. The T49 and the Sheridan also have the same plight as the one on Blitz, 152 pen with HEAT, but they perform well, if played right
unique scaffold
I don't think you are reading what we are saying ...
distant river
I am reading what you are saying, you are saying to flank and get shots in wuilr they arent looking from behind. Then reposition while you are unspotted. For me this never seems to work, and i end up doing very little dmg as the reds realise what i am doing very quickly
iron lynx
You can destroy most lights with only two shots.
Is that not enough?
distant river
@iron lynx you hardly ever get the chance to do that, which is the problem. It is a very specific tank that struggles at doing anything else
iron lynx
How so?
You are a light, if you follow the meds you are very likely to meet enemy lights en route.
distant river
Its excellent if you can find a LT when you have a distraction, and when they've dont focus on you or charge you, but that os pretty rare
@iron lynx but they will have support as well most likely, and most of the red meds that i see focus fire very well, and that is all directed straight at me
iron lynx
Pair up with another medium/light.
You do peekaboo around a corner or a ridge and fall back after shooting.
It's really just a matter of positioning.
shy wren
Sounds like you’re too aggressive early game
distant river
@iron lynx i do, then the other med decides that they cant take any hits and lets them attack, while i am falling back, and they reds focus on me
@shy wren maybe, i try and get hits, because i know that the more i shoot the more likely i am to hit. But the problem is when i am falling back the greens dont do anythinh to try and stop me being focused, and i cant blame them for that because i am probably drawing the reds into a bad position
iron lynx
Again, that sounds like you're too far out the front line.
The T49 does not start engagements, it observes an engagement and attacks when they least expect.
shy wren
^^^
distant river
That implies attacking fron a distance, other wise you are spotted and focus. But the problem is mid and long range shots dont hit
shy wren
A T49 is always a prime target, due to the high alpha dmg, like the KV-2 at tier VI
distant river
@shy wren but it cant take any hits, amd it cant hit shots when it isnt spotted ie it is at long or mid range
iron lynx
Whe you are focused, just drive to cover and wait for camo reset.
I don't think that's too hard, given the 72 km/h top speed.
shy wren
The KV-2 can’t take shots too. Armor’s too thin and flat to make good use of it
distant river
So you told me to not play it front line, then are basically telling me to play ot front line? @iron lynx
@shy wren the turret armour is bouncy enough
iron lynx
Wrong.
I am telling you to stay unspotted at the second line, wait for the brawl, and then go to the front line, then return to the second line to reload.
unique scaffold
@distant river. How did you do WR wise in the Bulldog?
shy wren
Not bouncy at all. @distant river
It’s a KV-1 hull with a much weaker turret at a higher tier. It can be oneshotted through the armor below the gun mantlet, which is where everyone shoots at most of the time.
Not a viable successor to the KV-1 in terms of playstyle
distant river
@unique scaffold 1 sec ill check
@iron lynx so camp for the first couple of minutes where my games are normally stagnant?
iron lynx
You can take some potshots from that range, they won't necessarily hit but you can return to cover easily from that range.
distant river
@iron lynx but then you are lacking doing damage, and near the end of the battle when the brawl cones they are mostly on low health so you still cant do much damage
@unique scaffold i have 61% inthe bulldog
iron lynx
That's where your 200-alpha-anywhere gun comes into play.
Btw, 200 is just an estimate on the front of an IS3.
distant river
@iron lynx again you stuggle to do any damage with your 17 sec reload
unique scaffold
The two tanks play almost the same. Only the bulldog gets death by a thousand cuts DPM while the T49 gets bludgeon you to death alpha. You need to be selective about how and when you engage. Here is how I play the T49.
Aggressive spotting run. Sometimes I'll take a shot other times I won't.
Once spotted I'll fall back and through the green team. This whole time I'm keeping a close look at my minimap to see how many and where the reds are spotted.
If I see five reds spotted in one portion of the map I will cautiously scout the flank to try and spot the remaining two.
If I spot them I try to keep them spotted for the team to engage. Once the are low enough HP for me to kill in one or two shots I'll engage.
Once they are dead I will let my camo reset and flank and engage the remaining reds.
Once you are on the side or behind the reds the HEAT round is dependable enough to pen many tanks.
I save the HE for tanks I simply can't pen or for Borsig / Sp1c type tanks because shooting them with HE is fricken hilarious.
distant river
@unique scaffold thanks spartacus for your constuctive ideas, ill try them out soon.
crimson quiver
Don't you think matilda is op for its tier? U cannot penetrate their armor except few little spots. I just 2v1 'ed two matildas
shy wren
Matildas and B1s are really strong anyways. They have the armor to bully same and lower tiers, but they struggle a bit against higher tiered opponents
cold axle
Yes ^ like the B1 can’t really pen most tier 5s especially the KV-1 which the worst enemy to a B1 and Mat.
shy wren
A T1 Heavy is much worse to face against in the B1 and Matilda. The frontal armor is nigh impenetrable for them, even with prammo
twilit crystal
@unique scaffold the proper balance for the t49 is to give it a 0 penetration 960 dmg HE shell
unique scaffold
That is not a premium round.
twilit crystal
again its a 3rd round that would make it actually usable against heavy tanks
but would be useless against any light tank coz its still 0 pen. RIP t28 prot
unique scaffold
I'm agreeing with you. I'm just saying it shouldn't be a premium round.
Fv 183 still OP
twilit crystal
lol the 183 is a garbage tank RN
tranquil wadi
183s really aren’t OP imo, they’re just annoying
Any skilled player can avoid them and rip them apart, but what’s annoying is when one locks down your entire team bc no one wants to lose half their HP in 1 shot
wispy tiger
twilit crystal
whats the best tier 7 med to you guys. It has to be the t-34-1 it has troll hull ,op turret, good alpha and pen.
meager spruce
T34 85 Rudy @twilit crystal
clever mauve
@shy wren the B2 is where it’s at~ it’s getting a nice buff and it’s already a nice tank with tier 4 and below only matchmaking
meager spruce
someone will get muted in #541894986212311041
clever mauve
Typical fantastic German engineering ~ it’s great for platoons with a dw2 or a Matilda @shy wren
unique scaffold
@twilit crystal. I agree. The 34-1 is a phenomenal medium. The Comet, T-43, and Rudy are all excellent as well.
twilit crystal
the t-34-1s strength comes in tier 8 games. Sure the comet t43 and rudy can rekt tier six meds but they really struggle against tier 8 heavies. Meanwhile the t-34-1 can just load the gold and go hull down and its turret armor is just as strong. The panther has the pen too but its way too big to hide in tier 8 games
meager spruce
@twilit crystal but T 34-1 gets its ammorack and engine damaged so easily it is not even funny
twilit crystal
yes on the second but i havent really gotten racked
coarse harness
Best T7 med ?🤔
Definitely the T20💪
twilit crystal
lol the t-34-1 is better in every way but gun depression
coarse harness
Just kidding mate, that tank has nothing good
wraith lance
IMO Panther and T-34-1 are the best
Comet and T23E3 can't use most of its DPM because of the poor pen, while the Panther goes through most tanks like butter
unique scaffold
I remember back when the Comet was the god of Tier VII, only contested by the T-43.
Tiger 2 needs a buff bad
wraith lance
Tiger II is ok, maybe a turret armor or a slight gun depression buff
unique scaffold
Buff to turret face armor would probably be sufficient to give the Tiger II an edge. Nearly everything at Tier VIII can pen your frontal turret. Maybe just add some track links for +20 or +40mm of armor?
coarse harness
And upper plate🙄
wraith lance
Tiger II isn't a frontline tank to bounce reliably on the front
crystal spoke
Track links at best would add 5mm effective armour since it's not hardened steel
wraith lance
It also has a decent top speed of 38km/h and a really nice gun
unique scaffold
Buff the speed to 45 and the rof a-bit and it would be fine
wraith lance
45 would be too much IMO
unique scaffold
@crystal spoke yeah but since when has WG cared about realism?
crystal spoke
When it comes to there base models
unique scaffold
But tbh WG doesn't really care about realism at all, so they can probably just buff the armor 20 or 40mm and it'll be fine
wraith lance
^
crystal spoke
When I say base models I mean how they look which they generally look how it historically did
a long time ago @unique scaffold
unique scaffold
yuo of see comrade
when yuo of add fantasy tenk
yuo affirm realism
because yuo make fantasy tenk real in yuo are game
crystal spoke
Wargaming doesn't have fake tanks just blueprinted tanks bc they need to draw and "blueprint" it before they can add it to the game
twilit crystal
me
main tulip
@unique scaffold maybe do something like this, but for the tiger ii?
unique scaffold
perhaps @main tulip
analog spruce
E100 or VK 72.01K ? 😏
(VK 72.01K for me...
And you ?)
quick lichen
If neither is an option, I take neither. At gunpoint, e100
distant river
From what ive seen the VK can be great in the right hands, but the E100 looks more reliable
analog spruce
Yes
ocean spoke
🤗
tranquil wadi
Vk has those weak spots tho
If u angle up the hull and turret correctly in the e100 you can take a hell of a beating
deft owl
@unique scaffold T49 he rounds counts as premium he which has the best blast radious of any he round in the game. Even better then the deathstar hesh rounds. Thats the reason why it counts as premium.
urban solar
Why does the KV-1 retain its 122mm cannon while the Stug's gets removed? :/
Also we want the 5cm cannon on the Leo (VK16.02) for the luls
twilit crystal
no one uses the derps anyway
brisk lily
because the 122 is absolutely useless
urban solar
I did, a fast spg with some punch, now relied to a sniper role with mid-low damage
#StugLife
tranquil wadi
I still remember back in the old days of blitz when I used the howitzer on the Matilda and launched a HE round across the map and hitting a hetzer on the roof like an SPG shell lol
urban solar
That had a lot of arch, couldn't even hit something at 150m because of the spread the arch xd
unique scaffold
fix ur dam spotting mechanic >:l
unique scaffold
Guys I'm gonna be that guy and say IS7 not so OP
tiny gale
idk man
it has a really strong turret and the 130mm let's it trade favorabley with other tier 10 heavies
unique scaffold
Nerf Gravedigger and Scavenger
dim field
Reduce the recoil the Gravedigger faces so the front isn't as bouncy when firing. Makes it easier to hit that lower plate (currently i fire between shots since GDs rare shoot once) but it seems weird as big and heavy as the gravedigger is it bounces a bit much while firing.
unique scaffold
Bro they will never Nerf premium tanks
@unique scaffold 🤣 neither of those tanks needs to be nerfed.
They're OP @unique scaffold
No they really aren't. Flank either of them and they are easy kills.
He
Gravediger is not OP? Where do you live?
It isn't. The gun is lackluster and the armor profile has weak spots from nearly all angles. Gravediggers aren't a big deal.
unique scaffold
@unique scaffold stop please
undone latch
Yes
unique scaffold
Ok
unique scaffold
Lol
Kick him out please, no swearing allowed here
Lol this is a christian server no swearing jajaja xaxa
jade cargoBOT
XAûDYT#2888 was banned
worthy basin
Annnnd he mysteriously vanished
royal oak
👀 you a magician
jade cargoBOT
anime_bou3691#8434 has been warned.
grave bear
Gravedigger is not op. i have it, got for free by completing the event, it cant do trade shots with no one, the turret is an easy target for every smart enemy, the accuracy makes you take more than 7 seconds to unload the clip on mid-long range enemies (7 seconds for doing 540 dmg + 10 seconds reload isnt that good)
and also if a small tank rushes you, you have no chance of aiming it.
unique scaffold
Is Leopard PT A good? 🤔
quiet badge
Idk, i have it stock and don’t want to grind it :v
quick lichen
@unique scaffold good when maxed out
cold axle
^
quick lichen
You just have to play every match like you’ll die when you get spotted
indigo knot
T22 med is seriously Op needs a nerf
spark star
you do know that only a couple of people actually bought the thing right? If you can do good in a T-22, you can do the same in any of the Russian med clones
Besides, theyre very low in number, its only really gonna be a problem if theyre eveyrwhere
the low numbers of the gamebreaking tanks is whats keeping them from being turned into blue tanks
unless of course if we talk about the 🅱️elsing or the 🅱️racula which are nearly everywhere
anyways, why is it that the PTA doesnt have the same gun depression in the front like on the sides?
it doesnt make any sense to me at all, that trait keeps itself away from me getting thr Leo 1
the model can pretty much depress the thing to 10° so why the hell cant it get the same amount as the Leo 1?
its just annoying that the front has nearly the same gun dep as a russian med and it keeps it away from being one of the best tanks in its class
and same topic as two days ago, Tiger 2 in dire need of buffing alongside the 4502 A
I really dont like being forced to do the second line role, the armor is just inadequate and its only real armor is its HP
and yet is has HT mobility
the tiger 1 now has a role of blasting same tier meds to death since its now more of a big medium rather than a paper heavy but now its predecessor performs better both on paper and stats
if you cant give it armor, at least give it some mobility, its really in dire need of a buff and I feel the tank doesnt get the justice for being one of the terrors of history like it deserves to be
people now respect the tiger 1 because of the tier 8 esque health pool and its fantsstic dpm, the tiger 2 offers less in worse matchmaking and arguably worse platform
tranquil wadi
Tiger 2 needs a buff
Playing both the tiger 2 and the Lowe, Lowe is better than the tiger in virtually every way
spark star
tiger 2 needs a lot of love like the tiger 1
tranquil wadi
Yeah no doubt
rancid flame
Tiger II needs a turret buff for sure, but not really much else IMO, maybe a buff to its upper plate
unique scaffold
On one hand the Tiger 2 could use a buff...
On the other hand isn't there enough Heavy spam in tier 8 already? Do we really need to give players another reason to play heavies in tier 8?
We have heavy spam in all tiers above 5 lol
No need to add to it. Kind of the same reason I'm not fond of any tier X TD buffs. There are already 6 in every match. Do we really need additional motivation to play them?
unique scaffold
Ideally I'd like to see the following changes.
Team composition
Lights. 2 max
Mediums. 3 max
Heavies. 3 max
Tank destroyers. 2 max
In addition to this I would like heavies and tank destroyers to lose coated optics as a equipment choice. It would be replaced by undecided equipment choice that would better fit their roles.
I think those two simple changes would go a long way in letting tanks better play their roles.
Nah that reduces diversity of gameplay options
indigo knot
In some time WG will have to buff whole tier 8 tech tree (meds and lights importantly) a little afterall there is only Premium tank spam at this tier....
unique scaffold
@unique scaffold. If creating teams that are not composed of nearly all one tank class hurts the "diversity"of the game then so be it. Matches with 6-8 of the same tank class in them should not be happening.
O k
smoky yoke
Wargaming did that more for queue time.
tulip tiger
The premium tank spam is so true.......
crisp geyser
@unique scaffold so as my tank destroy yourself I can only have one friend
My self* autocorrect would like you to die
unique scaffold
An allowance of two per team would allow players to Platoon same class tanks just as they do now. Don't worry, your double KV-2 or double 183 platoons would be safe.
distant river
Those are T34s
dire tide
Someone tell me
Between the is-6 and is-5 on the charts, there's a vehicle that says IS-2 something. Could anyone tell me what it is?
distant river
IS-2SH?
lone warren
That seems like the is2h
median gust
Tier 8 IS-2sh. Good for sidescraping supposedly.
neon grail
CDC needs tiny buff to gun handling or nah?
distant river
No its got dpm and speed to make up for it
neon grail
On the move is kinda meh though
distant river
Yeah, but slot down a bit and its deadly accurate
neon grail
But the CDC has to be on the move to be played well. Idk, maybe I need to camp more
distant river
No it should be played on the move, just maybe pausing for difficult shots
neon grail
Which is where u get blapped. No armor remember
distant river
Exactly. Its a balancing factor. It has great dpm and decent pen as well as speed
neon grail
Its a pretty bad med imo
distant river
Its just a slightly worse ru
neon grail
Ru is pretty meh too. t49 Is fun though lol
unique scaffold
Hi
distant river
Ru is meh? It has beautiful dpm and gun handling as well as speed
neon grail
Idk, I can never make the gun work. It always trolls me so hard
distant river
Its one of my favourite tier 8s just go on a spotting run and then pick people off with your dpm the brawl at the end
teal olive
Don’t forget the beautiful HEP. As long as you play really cautiously in the beginning and don’t lose HP then you can be deadly in end game situations
lone warren
RU is literally one of the best tier 8 tanks to use. But it takes a good player to use it well
wraith lance
^^^
main tulip
I would buff the CDC traverse not gun handling
wraith lance
Eh, the mediocre traverse is kind of the balancing factor, its fine as it is
rain token
Buff 0-47 ... please
tranquil wadi
CDC doesn’t need any buffs...it’s good where it is
On the move accuracy sucks but if it were good then all noobs would do is yolo and land snapshots constantly
teal olive
Incoming buffs: Jag E100, how much y’all think it will help the tank?
Also, tier seven light buffs (Minus Sp) how do you think it will affect play at the tier?
crystal spoke
@rain token what buff would you recommend
shy wren
SP 1 C’s getting an inter-clip buff, from 3.53 to 3 @teal olive
deft owl
@median gust Is2-sh isnt really good at side scraping when the armor behind the tracks are only 60mm. If you are looking for side scraping beasta look no further then Vk100 and chrysler k.
wraith lance
I'd like to see a small gun mantlet buff on the T23E3
tranquil wadi
Eh not a hugely popular tank
But a small buff to the turret would make it more similar to the comet which it can be pretty trill at times
rain token
@crystal spoke ... I would say much better Pen honestly
crystal spoke
I'm not sure if it needs it (I dont have one ) bit that might be its balancing factor since it has such strong armour
rain token
@crystal spoke... not necessarily It doesn't have strong armor .. Trolling maybe just needs to be aimed at and you will get pen.. lots of tanks are hard to pen with 0-47 lost of heavys and even those other trollish armor meds
I'd even say give it more armor and leave the pen how it is ...
crystal spoke
I'm sorry I was thinking lupus for a moment
I'm not sure if it does or doesn't it's been over a half a year since I've faught one
But perhaps that means there should be one
atomic hound
@teal olive where is the buff information from?
@unique scaffold one thing that should be considered when limiting number of tank types per game is that it actually makes the game less varied, and with a max of 3 heavies you're massively limiting which side of the maps are viable even more that they are currently.
The TD bit I can agree with, sure, but limiting anything else but lights feels like a terrible idea. Don't forget that this all puts more strain on the matchmaker too.
dim field
So long as I'm not getting games with 5 speed tanks CoD me I'm ok. Against 6 tank destroyers i can atleast pretend to be a secret agent.
atomic hound
Tbh all these people that complain about the mm should turn the clock back 5 years when it was regular to have a tier 8 on your team in place of a tier 10 on the other.
wraith lance
^ Agreed. Compared to back then, current MM is wonderful.
thick rover
I believe the IS-2sh should get a buff it's turret cheeks weakspot is too glaring and it kinda defeats it's role - sidescraping. The front armour makes it impossible to angle in the open with decent ease, unlike something like an IS-6 which can drive towards the enemy at an angle and wiggle. IS-2sh doing this will result in penetrations. Not asking for big buff to make it's front like the IS-6 or something just need a little touch up to help fulfill it's role and have a place among a tier heavily saturated with heavies.
formal forge
Is-7 has around 30 shells gets easy ammo hitted the t 34 2g ft (something like that) has 100 shells (i guess) goes not easy ammo hitted like the is8. Logic?
Also how can 100 shells pass in an small tank??
unique scaffold
@atomic hound. Tbh I miss +2/-2 mm. In my opinion it made for better players. As far as tank types and que times go you may be right. I've simply grown tired of see 3 heavies, 3 TD's, and some other random tank class compose so many of the teams I see.
atomic hound
I find that the vast majority of games have 2 TDs per team in them anyway, it's fine as it is. Put it this way: having 3 TDs as possible means that you get 1 or 2 TDs more frequently too.
unique scaffold
Tier X battles have become cookie cutter in their team composition. I'm simply proposing something that would switch it up.
atomic hound
I have a vague idea for TDs, and it sprouted from this: TDs are by far the most varied class. Nobody complains about having an at-15 in the match, for example, showing that it isn't actually TDs that are the problem, it's campy TDs. My idea would be to create a subclass of TDs that would not be visible in-game (though would be available information) purely for mm purposes: TDs that are reliant on or are most regularly used for camping and with high alpha that particularly punishes aggressive gameplay, I'm talking grille 15s, isu152s, 183s, etc. Limit these tanks to 1 per team, and limit the others to 2, i.e you still won't see more than 3 tds per team, but only one of them will be a true campy, high alpha td.
orchid grove
@atomic hound Actually, there already is that subclass in the matchmaker algorithm when the server pop is high enough. When there are >8000 players online, then matchmaker will balance the number of "destroyer" class tanks (which includes 183 and Grille) and "superheavy" class tanks (which includes E-100, Maus, and IS-4) on each team. I forget the exact list of the tanks included in the subclasses, and the required server population, but I know they said they added that constraint in one of the more recent updates
atomic hound
I vaguely recall that (the superheavy bit), but it doesn't matter, it doesn't work. I'm on EU, there should be no issue with server pop. over here, and yet the number of games with multiple isu152s, 183s, wt auf. pz 4s, etc. is still ridiculous.
lunar niche
Wasn't that kind of MM meant for Rating battles?
atomic hound
Don't think so
daring belfry
Tiger 1 is a little over the top with it's firerate
main tulip
No not really anymore
remote tiger
What’s up with the Matilda the armor is very decent, but I’ve been haven g a hard time to understand when I angle my tank at 45 degrees to another it doesn’t bounce, but for other it does
crystal spoke
Wait di you mean like the Matilda doesn't bounce at 45°?
remote tiger
Yeah
crystal spoke
Then they are hitting your turret ring
remote tiger
But that should damage my turrets which it hasn’t
crystal spoke
Or the small spot next drver hatch both are weak points
remote tiger
Damn okay
crystal spoke
Yeah its highly armoured but not impenetrable especially from pramo
humble spear
A shot to the turret ring only has a chance of damaging it if I'm not mistaken
unique scaffold
The front has a pike nose that can be penned if angles
humble spear
it isn't really a pike nose but
signal frigate
iron lynx
I have been waiting for this since the British was introduced.
Yasssssss
main tulip
Why tf is it called the Fv4004 and not conway
quick lichen
Can’t wait to see the thousands of complaints when wg announces the 4005
main tulip
Honestly screw WG with their horrible naming on Blitz, first it was the wz-121 and wz-113 when it should just be 121 and 113, and now this fv4004 when it should be conway
iron lynx
Maybe they would switch the FV183 to this new line and introduce the Badger instead? @quick lichen
quick lichen
Hah
Haha
Hahahahahah
We still have the 4202, 215b and 183 in tier x
That’s like 2015 wot pc stuff
All of those were replaced over a year ago and yet here we still are
main tulip
Also does anyone know why the 183’s model is screwed up in Blitz? Because it should be based on the conqueror hull but in blitz it looks smaller and the angles are different
iron lynx
At least they did that with the Maus line tho.
Either way, I'm happy I can get a 183mm gun without going through the ATs.
unique scaffold
Problem. TD spam in higher tiers.
Solution. Add two new TD lines.
🤦♂️
exotic pelican
at least S.Barn will be easy to spot and pen (or not)
exotic pelican
Grille: Bad armor, bad camo
quick lichen
Grille also has garbage traverse for some reason
unique scaffold
Just rename the game to World of Tank Destroyers Sitz and call it a day.
quick lichen
There’s no logic with that tank
exotic pelican
I guess we wait and see what happens when they add it
main tulip
@quick lichen ikr why is the grille’s traverse so bad
Anyway they might as well add the tank in my profile pic now
quick lichen
@exotic pelican how many people will quit by them adding a second 183?
main tulip
Maybe they put the FV4004 at tier 9 for a reason, and they’re saving the conway for the tier x
quick lichen
X
main tulip
@quick lichen ?
quick lichen
X to doubt
obsidian osprey
Why does it need to be called the Conway? FV4004 is the same tank.
I’m guessing they’ll branch off from the firefly and give us the challenger, charioteer, fv4004, and fv4005 stage II
frozen compass
Give IS-7 some love pls
main tulip
@obsidian osprey I would like it to start from the Archer at tier V.
twilit crystal
archer is angry connor
indigo knot
They should bring in Badger
clever mauve
Yea
main tulip
@obsidian osprey because Conway is the name of the tank we all know and love on PC, they’re changing it on blitz for absolutely no reason
indigo knot
183 is broken already you have 2 trade 2 times and do decent tier 10 damage
clever mauve
They should add archer with angry Connor as premium version
indigo knot
Bring in 430u .....
Its like tier 8 is full of heavy tanks and tier 10 is full of TDs.....
main tulip
@indigo knot oh h*ll no, not the Bobject 430U
obsidian osprey
Prior to the great low tier tech tree culling, I think it would have been reasonable to expect that they’d add the archer and Achilles, but now I suspect that they won’t bother. New free tech tree lines aren’t really a money maker for WG (or at least the lower tier vehicles in those lines probably don’t bring in cash, but tier 8-10 probably brings in some from people buying free xp to “get it first”).
indigo knot
The German tier 10s are kind of weak in comparison to other nation tier 10s (except for Maus and E50m) ..... especially the German tds.... they take skill to play..... unluckily my first tier 10 was Jagpze100 ....slow as hell and gun trolled me when grinding crew
neon peak
Ohh wow there gonna bring another fv 183 in the game😂😂
When it comes it’s gonna get spammed So much
wraith lance
Inb4 it doesn't have a 183mm
neon peak
True, I guess it might not have the same gun as 183
main tulip
Maybe it’ll have a short-barreled 183 with the same alpha but bad pen, like the KV-2
zealous oriole
or maybe they will nerf the soft stats to hell and back
naive ibex
Hmm but why to nerf the fridge? Its such bigger than fv 215b 183, it cant hide in bush sometimes and it haves no armor and only think that saves this tank is gun
We need to test it on test server and after testing talking about it not now, that would be extremly hard to balance this tank... This tank must not be be too easy and not too garbage
iron lynx
The Emil also has its gun going for it.
And only its gun, tbh.
naive ibex
So why to nerf the gun on fridge when this is only think that saves this tank?
meager spruce
@naive ibex WG said than the fv4005 won't have the 183 mm look in #502009251787440139
naive ibex
Hmmm so this new gun must be such better than 183mm or this tank turns into garbage churchill gun carrier
meager spruce
^^^
twilit crystal
Because no one even Wg' actually wants two 183s
main tulip
Fun fact: the Conway’s stock gun is the top gun of the Tortoise, so if you research it first, you won’t have to research it on the tortoise.
iron lynx
Might be a super-fast firing 120mm gun.
Just maybe.
main tulip
@iron lynx I certainly hope that that’s the case. Fast 120mm sounds like fun, especially on a turret
naive ibex
Hmm that big paper fridge with a 120mm fast firing gun? Mhmm he haves in some ways 'terrible camo'... This is such BIG and it needs to hide... This tank need depression to this too
iron lynx
It has 10 degrees of gun depression.
I think it could do just fine
unique scaffold
@zealous oriole. Haven't seen you around for a bit. How you been?
zealous oriole
Just fine, ty for asking. WG finally removed my chatban so kudos to them. Currently grinding Foch line + 215b heavy line @unique scaffold
naive ibex
This tank is too easy to snipe, turret armor: 16mm
unique scaffold
Glad to hear you got your voice back.
iron lynx
There is a another way:
4-shell autoloader @naive ibex
zealous oriole
Yeah - learned my lesson. Definitely won't be raging in public chat from now on. That's what clan discord is for.
naive ibex
Uuu fridge autoloader... Thinks wt auf e100 mode
unique scaffold
Bingo🤣
naive ibex
Autoloader... Only think that saves fv 4005 version 2 from garbage mode... Only... Perfectly for his new gameplay mode, for new tds mode
iron lynx
I think there are three ways:
- Give it the 183mm L4.
- Give it a 120mm gun with an autoloader.
- Give it a single-shot 120mm gun with an insanely high rate of fire.
zealous oriole
no. just give it a fast firing 183mm with terrible penetration and accuracy. and make it faster and more lightly armored than the fv 183. Also, nerf its camo. then buff the fv183's camo and accuracy values because currently it is THE worst tier 10 vehicle
iron lynx
Um
Nope.
The buffing-FV183 part, just nope.
unique scaffold
After this line is added let's just take a two year break on adding tank destroyer lines. Enough is enough.
iron lynx
Well, the only TD line that hasn't been ported to Blitz from PC is the Swedish TD line.
And also the upcoming British TDs.
So there's basically not much left of new TD lines.
smoky yoke
Swedish TD's are coming this year and fv line going to come next year so you you gonna get 2 more lines @ @unique scaffold
unique scaffold
I know. It's absurd.
It's blatantly obvious that Wargaming is trying to appeal to the type of player who is scared to leave spawn.
smoky yoke
But each nation has at least 1-2 td line.
iron lynx
Good news is after that, there's no more TD lines.
Then maybe WG will go to the lights.
smoky yoke
Lights not going to work in blitz, it supose to spot on the move but meds can do that the same way and has horrible penetration
ivory fractal
“It's blatantly obvious that Wargaming is trying to appeal to the type of player who is scared to leave spawn.”
My Dracula says otherwise 
zealous oriole
we don't need more tanks. we need more variety and changes to existing tanks that make them unique. some more mechanics wouldn't hurt either (such as more equipment choices and autoreloading tanks. what's the point of having 400 tanks in the game if 20 of them are basically the same?
unique scaffold
I don't care. I already see 6 tank destroyers in the majority of tier X games. The last thing we need is two more tank destroyer lines added to the game.
@ivory fractal when was the last time WG introduced a tank that was mobile like the Dracula?
raw oar
Decrease 6th sense delay of light tanks so they know quickly that they are spotted.
iron lynx
I would certainly enjoy having the Italians in Blitz.
meager spruce
it is a long time to wait for those bud
zealous oriole
Also the entire french TD line save for the Foch needs to be buffed. The Bathtub is fine as it is, ARL needs better accuracy, AMX AC46 and 48 are just outright POS's, and the Foch 155 is just a wannabe 268
raw oar
It is stupid that they have same view range as eaves and TD and same 6th sense delay. OK, camo on the move... still.
meager spruce
@zealous oriole ARL is one of the best tanks for it's tier...
iron lynx
ARL V39 actually @meager spruce
zealous oriole
precisely. what's the point of having light tanks if the view range differences are marginal? I'm getting outspotted by IS-4s in my BC and Leo, no joke.
raw oar
Lol, buff ARL gun.
meager spruce
@iron lynx I said one of the best
unique scaffold
Heavies and tank destroyers need to either lose coated optics or lights and mediums need a camo buff.
iron lynx
Nope, the ARL V39 is anywhere but close to best.
zealous oriole
decrease the base viewrange of all heavies and TDs so they will NEED meds/lights to spot for them. Currently it is absolutely ridiculous how TDs can spot for themselves and completely wipe the floor with lights and mediums
ivory fractal
@unique scaffold can’t remember but I think it’s wrong to say WG are trying to implement such a gameplay style.
gloomy dragon
But it's not like they're even trying all that hard to change it when they keep adding TDs and encourage the heavy/td meta
raw oar
@zealous oriole +1
unique scaffold
I'm not saying they are trying to. I'm saying that in my opinion they are creating a meta that is geared towards tank destroyers. Adding more tank destroyer lines is just icing on the cake.
zealous oriole
furthermore perhaps we need a new game mode (other than mad games) to shake things up a bit. more mechanics and better maps would also be welcome
Assault and Standard are two modes that can be EASILY added, and I simply cannot comprehend why WG has not done so already
iron lynx
No wonder lights/meds battles happen on the other side of the map from heavies/TD battles.
zealous oriole
Perhaps WG should also work on player retension more. Give the M60 out again, but this time only to actual, loyal players. People who bought it and are "loyal" get gold.
gloomy dragon
What would your definition of "loyal" be? Players of 4+ years?
raw oar
Would be interesting to know what is a loyal player
main tulip
E50M wipes the floor with every other med in a duel lol
ivory fractal
@zealous oriole I think something like that will lead to all sorts of community drama....
gloomy dragon
Just wondering since WG never actually disclosed their distribution criteria. All i know is that they flubbed and lots of people got them while many more didn't.
raw oar
Loyalty
iron lynx
@main tulip that's because it behaves more like a heavy.
Yeah, definitely heavy meta now.
unique scaffold
Just sneak a line of code in that gives you the M60 or something like it once you have bought X amount of tier X tanks. It would be fair and equally applied to all users.
main tulip
@iron lynx not really it’s just as fast as all the other medium tanks, part of the reason why its armour is so strong is because it moves so fast that other tanks struggle to aim effectively.
Also because its ramming is insane
zealous oriole
Maybe someone who spent $100 or more and has x amount of battles?
unique scaffold
That opens up the opportunity for players to cry pay to win again... Not that some players ever stopped crying that.
ivory fractal
Balance discussion btw penny just dropped for me
main tulip
Yeah, maybe once you hit 20k battles, have been playing for 3 years and spent $100+
gloomy dragon
Well, I'm outta luck if it necessitates having spent cash.
unique scaffold
I'd say a loyal player is one who has played consistently (on average 10 battles a day) for at least 2 years and who has unlocked 8 tier X tanks. That seems pretty loyal to me.
main tulip
I unlock tier 10’s so slow, been playing for over 2 years and 12k battles but I only have 2 tier 10’s
gloomy dragon
Now that criteria i think i barely fit on the daily game count. Thank you my insanity of two years ago for the event grind sessions
unique scaffold
Hell I don't even meet those requirements but I think they are fair
gloomy dragon
@main tulip the key to grinding tier tens is to do multiple lines at once and take advantage of any daily multipliers, especially the daily 2x and event multipliers. Now you can stack boosters
P.s. missions help somewhat, too
main tulip
@gloomy dragon I think it’s mostly because my last 2k battles or so have been in mostly premiums
zealous oriole
Yeah I got the AMX 50B after only 152 battles in the 120
main tulip
I think that high-tier 128mm guns need to have higher alpha, like they do in PC. In PC, regular 128-130mm guns have 490 alpha while guns like the Jagdtiger’s do 560. The same should apply to blitz
small flame
well this isnt pc so
main tulip
Well just like in PC, high-tier 122 and 105mm guns get increased alpha in blitz. Logically, the same should apply to 128mm
elfin marlin
chinese tds came out and everyone is playing these tanks. 3tds in a team is not a problem
unique scaffold
3 TD's per team is a problem. Especially in higher tiers. It creates a stagnant game environment where players are afraid to leave spawn.
dusky oxide
Massive slugfest... Even heavies are doing it -_-
rough galleon
Shelter in place. That’s pretty much all I can do in a TD-heavy game in an open map like castilla with my maus
clever mauve
As an almost 5 year player of blitz I think I deserve something for my loyalty
distant river
@rough galleon best thing to do is something so stupid the reda wont expect it or initiate some combat by flanking
visual nimbus
I agree, I think veteran players who have put a lot of time into the game should get some special camo or what not.
distant river
Special avatar or camo for how long you have spent in game?
dusky oxide
Flanking isnt an option if theres only 2 flanks and both are occupied. The most effective option is to cap but its making yourself bait if the team doesnt support it. And they usually dont for obvious reasons. @distant river
And you cant do that safely on a map like mines or dead rail and get away with it if there really are 3 tds and limited ways to flank
twilit crystal
castilla is a fine map. The game is heavy biased enough. Castilla is td/med biased and IMO mostly med biased
dusky oxide
How is castilla med biased? You rush to the hill and 2 tds hit you and take away more than half of your hp pool. Then youre forced to peek out of 2 small gaps for the rest of the game and hope thet youre heavies stick around. @twilit crystal
Its the opposite if the enemy have the tds to keep you on your toes
distant river
@dusky oxide on some maps mines it just doesnt work, but everywhere else it should
If both flanks are occupied then they are split and weak, so pushing is easier
wraith lance
I barely go hill on Castilla on my meds, I usually go near cap and shoot across the heavies at mill
dusky oxide
@distant river does it work on dead rail if 2 of the enemy tds are in the snipers nest on the med flank?
twilit crystal
coz I can spot the tds and they get deleted
dusky oxide
Where is this place you spot them that has enough cover that you can disengage safely?
distant river
@dusky oxide blindshots are easy there because its obvious where they are. Also you can allowfor where they are, and take xover accordingly while annoying the heavies
twilit crystal
You dont need to engage. You just spot -_-
dusky oxide
@distant river so blindshots is the most effective counter youre presenting? :D its not about not knowing where they are. Its about there being 3.
distant river
We should probably move to #maps-discussion
dusky oxide
@twilit crystal yea, from what spot? On castilla that is. I struggle on the med flank because its very open and the cover isnt very high. I find myself getting caught out when im even trying to get into a place to spot tds.
@distant river maybe, im trying my hardest to focus on the tank limit aspect but it goes so hand in had with map desing
twilit crystal
Well its on one flank atleast. I agree the side with the tall hills gets an advantage but the side with the shorter hills is closer
dusky oxide
But thats the one tanks on the hill can directly counter and even after the corner the tds are very shielded.