lol ok
#tank-balance-discussion
noble siren
median gust
p2w jesus
noble siren
@median gust it's sad but hey guess who will take their "Skilled" shells
robust coyote
u mean unicum rounds?
noble siren
60%WR rounds to be more accurate
empty ice
If there were no premium rounds the game would be boring af
noble siren
I am not talking about removing premium ammo i am talking about available only for gold. And my point is that when you spam us with it i will know that you will lose something than any 12k silver.
ashen rune
what about F2P players?
empty ice
@noble siren are you mad? That would make it more pay to win than it is right now. If your salty that you can't handle people shooting gold ammo, I don't think this game is for you.
noble siren
Then if the fcking Maus has only 200mm armor which literally everyone can pen it with gold shells even if i am angeling it why it even exists
ashen rune
not everybody is gonna spam prammo
unique scaffold
.... if maus is a tank that cant be penned by anything...
ashen rune
then everything else can be penned
empty ice
You aren't angleing it correctly, you probably are facing your turret toward them while keeping your hull angled
noble siren
Lol no I'm not dumb just this fcking stupid physics ni which some random Yolo is 4 is driving towards me shooting prammo and penning my upper frontal plate
empty ice
That's how mafia works
noble siren
Oh wait yes...
unique scaffold
@noble siren. Might want to watch the language.
ashen rune
Vulgar language
sharp vigil
Blitz is already infinitely better than PC in the regards to premium ammo. The shells do much less damage when they pen, and Tier X mediums have nerfed penetration on them as well. As far as I'm concerned, Blitz gold ammo is perfectly balanced. Some braindead puke slinging gold is always going to lose a fight to someone with half a brain who knows how to aim.
twilit crystal
Tier x meds need more pen
sharp vigil
No they don't. Heavies and TDs need less armor.
dusky oxide
Yep, if you you nerf the mechanism that makes dealing against armor easier you need to nerf the armor as well. At least the side armor. Its ridiculous what kind of bounces is7/4s can get... The only thing more ridicuolous is how long it will take for them to fix it.
dim field
That doesn't really makes sense.
If you're proposing something needs a nerf (like pen) and then saying you have to nerf it's opposite (like armor) then you technically haven't nerfed anything. You nerf/buff something because it's out of balance. It'd be like saying tanks do too much dmg. So we cut their dmg in half but also cut the hp of every tank in half as well. It defeats the purpose.
sharp vigil
Exactly my point with Tier X mediums. WG nerfed their penetration to try to fix an imbalance that wasn't there. By nerfing their pen, they promoted more heavies at Tier X, because the mediums can't pen as much.
unique scaffold
Don't forget that in 3.8 heavies actually got a armor buff while mediums took a DPM hit.
dim field
Iirc meds were easily able to pen heavies frontally. The whole purpose of a heavy is to trade mobilityfor armor. So having something that's faster, able to completely negate that armor from even what should be the heavies strongest point (usually the front) seems kinda well unfair.
sharp vigil
Mediums were able to pen heavies frontally because heavy drivers typically were and still are raging butt monkeys that don't know the first thing about using their armor in a way that matters
rain ivy
When your gun says good pen but you still don't pen with pramo
unique scaffold
@dim field. And now we have heavies bouncing shots from mediums off of their side armor and six tank destroyers in every game because that is the only way the average player can cause damage at tier X. The 3.# changes were overkill when it comes to bringing "balance" to the game.
I far prefer being out played by a medium than being "outplayed" (nuked) by some 40%er who has barely moved out of spawn.
The new tier X meta sucks and the 3.# updates are the reason why.
dim field
If they need to be rebalanced I'm not saying they shouldn't. However there as to be a balance to it. I see people complain they aren't able to treat their light/medium like a heavy, completely ignoring their speed advantage over the heavy and instead sit their right infront of the hulled down heavy and can't frontally pen it.
unique scaffold
With the gold ur heavies are already to nub friendly just getting lucky bounces all that crud slow good gun, and they can’t just have the ability to be invincible bc there’s no gold rounds
median gust
SpartacusDiablo I agree 100%
unique scaffold
Thanks man. I just call it like I see it.
teal olive
Lol tier ten meds do NOT need 330 standard HEAT pen like they used to. I’m all for dynamic gameplay but I actually want to see heavies and well armored TDs be rewarded for using armor effectively.
lunar niche
Only gripe i have on gold ammo is the absurd pen on HEAT due to Calibrated Shells buff. While it may have been good for meds and lights, the heavies with HEAT now have almost TD lvl of pen.
For me, its easy to bounce a 334 HEAT from E100 while facehugging in Maus. CS 367 HEAT on the other hand goes straight through my angled turret despite wiggling.
teal olive
cough cough IS4
(It’s totally balanced even though it has more pramo pen than the grille, thats fine, thats just fine) love it how they nerf Jag heat (Which its iconic for) and not the ridiculous IS4 heat
Now dont get me wrong, idc about jag Heat all that much because 380 is more than enough, but the IS4 isn’t far behind and its a HEAVY
indigo knot
E5, E100, T57 when using calibrated shells can easily pen the frontal hull of Maus when not angled properly .....and are most likely never gonna bounce the cheeks
atomic hound
@teal olive the Jag could pen an e100 through the upper plate with heat, and this is before the days of calibrated shells. Imagine a Jag with calibrated shells with 462mm of heat pen. Nothing would bounce that.
teal olive
Yes that’s not my point though. Congrats, you just wasted your time. I literally stated I don’t care about it’s HEAT pen. 380 is more than enough. My point is that the IS4 is hella overpowered with its heat pen it has access to
atomic hound
@unique scaffold I don't agree with you here, namely because the old mediums, especially the Russians, had armour as good as (or better than) tier ten heavies when used correctly, but also had crazy DPM (back when gun rammer was 10% not 7%) and great mobility, and could still pen everything with no problems. If you've got a tank that does absolutely everything, it should be nerfed, and that is exactly what they did. To say that medium tanks are in a bad place right now would also be wrong (in random battles, anyway) and a 40% heavy tank is just about the easiest damage you can farm that I can think of.
@teal olive only in tournaments. If you use calibrated shells, your DPM sucks, and 340mm is enough (for randoms) anyway.
Let's not forget that the E5 and t57 can do the same thing, but you don't hear complaints about those tanks (a t57 that doesn't run CS is doing it wrong, too)
dusky oxide
Tier x meds have a hard time penning the sides of some tanks or even tracking them because of the increased track hp equipment. This would still be somewhat ok if meds were able to freely use that mobility they have, but with there being 3 tds on either team in more than half of the games renders flanking very risky at times. You cant deny that playing a heavy that gets every possible advantage from the new equipment and can deliver high alpha shots without exposing too is much easier to play than a med and requires much less awareness. Its not the pen nerf keeping meds down, its the other advantages from equipment that have been given out to tank classes that should be more vulnerable when flanked/caught out and a meta full of very high alpha guns that restricts making maneuvers. Now you cant pen, but you also have to risk half your hp when you flank.
dim field
My proposed changes in that case would be
- Decrease the hp pool for track modules (so it's easier to track them)
- Add a vehicle limit across all the vehicle types. No more than 2 Td. No more than 3 light/meds, no more than 3 heavies.
neon peak
I agree with your second thought, there shouldn’t be 3 even 4 tds on one team. But are you purposes just nerfing the side armor of most heavies?
Purposing*
dim field
I don't know enough concerning the side armor itself about heavies. But if they're saying it's too difficult for meds to reasonably flank a heavy because it takes too many hits to track it, then it's tracks shouldn't be able to eat asmuch as they do. Nerf the track health not the armor.
neon peak
So I play my t62a quite a lot and in my personal opinion I don’t find it hard to track and damage them, unless it’s like a Maus or e100 sides can be trolly,also is4
But just my opinion on that.
dim field
I'm more of going off what they were saying was their issue. I don't play lights and meds that much, especially beyond tier 8. I'm more of a heavy/Td player. Is4 is incredibly trolly
I like playing heavies and Tds and using them as supports of sorts. Letting the the speedy tanks run forward to spot and pull the enemies out of cover so I can be the spotter guardian and nail any who dare threaten my buddy. When I'm a heavy I like to get up front and be in your face threat sp the speedy tanks can whip around and nail the enemy while they were to focused on me to notice.
neon peak
Yea I’m opposite I like meds a lot, spotting flanking, and using the great turret of the t62a is really fun
wanton swan
nerf TD
PLS
crimson barn
I made this 1st stage and where are these camo? 🤔
hushed fox
Did you check your storage? If you got camo it will be there
indigo knot
@teal olive I am more afraid of Wz113 and E5 when using heat ....as they have same heat pen when using CS .....but they have very good dpm too.....while IS4 dpm is meh .....and if someone is just gonna fire heat you should simply totally back off afterall you ain't gonaa bounce them
deft willow
Fix your god damn hit detection
I shot a super Pershing in his cupola and there was 0 damage, what is wrong with this game
unique scaffold
I've found that playing on a good internet connection and aiming does wonders when it comes to hitting targets.
Also what iRaik said.
quick lichen
I didn’t know that hit detection is balance related
deft willow
Where do I put it then? And Spock, my WiFi is actually very good
quick lichen
unique scaffold
@quick lichen you ninja son of a...
deft willow
There should be a bug report section
deft willow
Excuse you, if your not going to treat me with any respect then we’re going to have a problem.
quick lichen
Apparently you’re unaware that ghost shells are part of the game
Now you know
It’s not great
But it happens every few hundred shots
deft willow
Well my luck isn’t very good with 5 in a row
fiery quiver
with all due respect, how haven't they figured out a fix to this yet?
quick lichen
I honestly think it’s connection related
Potentially the server “loses” the shell if you momentarily lose connection
Or have a mini lag spike
But it’s not my area of expertise
fiery quiver
also do u think the leo was powercreeped
deft willow
Tier 5 one?
fiery quiver
do u play tier 10 regularly?
quick lichen
deft willow
Yes
fiery quiver
so in ur opinion do u think the leopard 1 has been powercreeped and/or needs a buff?
quick lichen
No
To both
The leopard has always been great on paper. Wonderful in the hands of good players. Free damage in the hands of bad players
unique scaffold
@iRaikkonen [Pramo] what do u think about VK72, need reloaf buff or nerfed armor plate
quick lichen
Neither
deft willow
I think it does need a slight turret buff, and the Foch 155 either needs an armour buff or to get an auto loader like on pc
fiery quiver
i think it needs a huge armor and gun buff personally
quick lichen
The vk 72 isn’t a good tank overall
unique scaffold
Now at NA servers, no one use vk72
fiery quiver
i think they should balance it more like the panzer 7 from pc and have a solid 128 like the pc one with higher dpm if it isn't buffed armor wise
quick lichen
Vk 72 is very unforgiving
fiery quiver
maybe even give it like 12 degrees of gun depression lol
fiery quiver
cuz the gun handling is too horrible to do well in
unique scaffold
Well thats right, but i see potential in this tank, i thing it needs a reloaf buff, equal to E100
coarse harness
At least buff the armor behind the tracks
You can overmatch it with a 120 mm gun
The tank has lower plate and cupola as well
shy wren
That area is 50mm of armor.
Prolly that or you got real lucky hitting that 20mm of armor above the tracks
Not the sloped armor, but the underside armor
lunar niche
Wouldn't bringing in VK72 with 128mm L61 been the better choice? You would have E100 with high alpha, Maus with heavy armour and VK72 with gun handling or maybe a bit more dpm than both german heavies.
atomic hound
And dreadful armour (compared to those 2)
Honestly, I think it needs a turret buff regardless, then either a side armour buff, or a mobility buff. As it is, the mobility is similar to the e100, except it has worse DMP, less health, and less armour (not on paper, in practice) so it needs something to set it apart from the e100.
fringe fable
Does anyone know how to put on camo for a tank
atomic hound
Go to the camouflage button on the bottom towards the left.
rustic fossil
Yeah, that turret cheek is he VK’s downfall. The gun is pretty sucky too, but they expected from a super heavy. Bushka has a pretty good review on it that says it all.
wraith lance
@fringe fable The button will appear when you reach tier V
fringe fable
So I need to buy a tier 5 tank
sly iron
Yes
fringe fable
Ok thx guys
lunar niche
Well, it wouldn't be a german superheavy if it did not have a flat weak turret lol. Only russians have round and strong turrets.
unkempt flume
Hello
main tulip
I’d say mobility and gun handling buff for vk
atomic hound
I don't see why it needs a slower reload than the e100 does with calibrated shells (the e100 has 1 DPM more than the VK when the VK runs rammer and the e100 runs Calibrated shells)
That won't be a coincidence, either, that will be by design
fringe fable
Hey guy what is you to favorite tank
short crest
Kv2
lone warren
FV215b
dim field
Favorite Tank? Hetzer
neon peak
T62a for me.
smoky yoke
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK-URygPoOA @quick lichen Here some evidence of the ghost shells are more prominent.
manic coyote
? @smoky yoke
smoky yoke
Read chat above about ghost shells
manic coyote
Why are you talking to me. I don't know who are you
flat bane
I love my vk 72, already aced it 2 times, but the DPM is horrible and the turret is weak as well. It does need a armor and reloud buff
median gust
Tell that to the grille speed and traverse
dusky oxide
I got rushed today twice by a grille and couldnt react in time. Just drive bys that i didnt have enough turret traverse in the 121b to get a clean shot on. Never experienced this before
smoky yoke
Sry about that bro , I didn't notice I pinged you roxidom instead of iraikkonen
main tulip
Grille needs a mobility buff bad
uncut fractal
fv215b 183 needs an armour buff cause it has heavy tank camo heavy tank speed and mobility and worse then heavy tank accuraccy but still has no armour
unique scaffold
183 needs zero buffs. Please stop 🤦♂️
main tulip
T49 needs HEP on its 90mm
quick lichen
@main tulip it does get hep. It’s called the 152 mm gun
main tulip
No it’s not lmao it’s premium and has only 75mm of pen
unique scaffold
Why would you run the 90mm on the T49???
If you want to run a 90mm grind out the RU or buy the Cruel Twist next time it is available.
rain ivy
^
quick lichen
@main tulip you don’t run rammer on a t49...
main tulip
Calibrated shells barely increases the pen by like 4mm on HE, not gonna make a big difference
main tulip
Meh I’d rather have a bit faster reload personally
heavy bloom
Why are british low alpha?
dim field
Because they have high rate of high
heavy bloom
Then why are the Brits so slow?
main tulip
Chaffee needs a buff
limber mirage
the British infantry tanks didn't need exceptional speed because they were designed to match with the speed of foot soldiers
main tulip
Chaffee has medium tank mobility but meh gun and crap armour, cromwell B is better in every way
Does Cruel need a slight engine power buff
smoky yoke
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/407947481939181568/543499088419618816/Screenshot_69.png?width=811&height=456 Chaffee is great in good hands
quiet ledge
The 155 has nice front armour, if given a few more degrees of gun depression it's gonna be balanced really well
thick condor
If it had better gun depression then why would you drive a 268? Its already the second best preforming td in tier X
atomic hound
268 still has a better gun, I suppose... But I don't think buffing the Foch gun depression is the way forward, maybe buff the gun handling a little, if anything.
warped grove
in common sense, if it's really balanced, why the fewest number in a server?
atomic hound
That has absolutely nothing to do with it.
fiery flame
Because people don’t know how good it is, like the fv4202 isn’t very popular but no way is it underpowered
atomic hound
That is kinda debatable, but I don't necessarily disagree with you there. It does certainly suck against is-X tanks and wz-113s, which is tough in the latest meta
fiery flame
All I’m saying is that if you drive foch like a total muppet you will hate it, it’s not a very forgiving tank, but if you use it’s mobility and armour correctly it is very strong
atomic hound
I do think the Foch has worse armour than the 268, for the following reason: it you switch to heat on a Foch, you'll pen him 9 times out of 10, but switch to heat on a 268, especially if he is using his gun depression, and it's still really freaking troll
tawdry moat
Instead of comparing the foch to the 268, i more over compare it to the T11oe3. Since both have a similar problem with the capula/view port.
iron lynx
There's less Fochs because nobody wants to suffer through the trash ARL V39.
Probably.
abstract slate
I dont think t101e3 is fair comparison with foch 155. E3 is super armored and the cupola is much smaller and can be barely penned
barren arch
Foch is faster tho👀
abstract slate
Yeah, so? Thats why 268 is better comparison. They take the same role in the battlefield. I love my foch but it cant hold like a e3 can
tawdry moat
The foch sacrifice armour, for speed. And yet has some trolly armour.
The e3 is rather slow, and yes its cupola can be penned.
barren arch
Haha Triggerd 😂😂
abstract slate
Just look at my stats, i love the foch, but you cant really compare a maus to a leo fairly either can you
tawdry moat
But the 268 has a different play style then the foch tbh.. 268 is more over a rush and punish them, specially meds.
But the e3, ans foch play similar roles.
barren arch
Comparing a maus with a leo? What are u smoking mate?😂
abstract slate
Ones slow the other is fast, in my opinion its the same as comparing foch to e3. Too different to be fairly compared
tawdry moat
To be fairly compared yea impossible. But a similar comparison yea. Almost like comparing the M36, to the m18. Similar but play two different roles.
M36 move over help and support heavies. And m18, so flexible it can either be med help, or the support heavy. My opinion does better as med help.
barren arch
For cw it depends on map what ts is better to use
abstract slate
I think if you know what you are doing, any tier 10 can be a carry beast, what you should be looking at is how easy it is to do well, thats why noobs cant just buy a tier 10 and be a pro
iron lynx
The Foch is good as in it essentially doesn't have a lower plate. The lower plate is only about a foot off the ground, so nobody can hit it.
tawdry moat
STB, Leo, Fv4202, obj 263, and maus, is in my opinion the harder ones that anyone can do good in.
I dont even aim lower plate, unless im on lower elevations vs foch. Just hit the sights all the time.
abstract slate
That range finder is massive, but its just the more funny when they miss
shy wren
Even the sights are trollish to pen at times
tawdry moat
I honeslty think the fv4202, turret could do some work.. leopard turret bounces more then its xD
iron lynx
Well yeah it has the rangefinder/cupola/whatever weakspot.
But you can troll newbies since only the middle part of it is actual armor.
The sides are completely spaced armor.
abstract slate
Fv is a bit pointless armor wise imo, amazing upper hull, but who cares just shoot turret lol
tawdry moat
The '196mm' of sloped armour on the Fv4202 turret.. yet i get smacked with HE if someone hits it..
Leopard bounces more of turret and the stb turret is just a small target.
abstract slate
Stb is a a bit underpowered imo, not the worst X med, but 100% not the best
iron lynx
Best tier X med is the AMX 50B
Changed my mind
tawdry moat
Its a bit underpowered, but i like it. Little refreshing difference then the Russian or batchat spam.
abstract slate
Plus it looks nice
tawdry moat
Stb is a smaller leopard 1, with worse pen. Thats all i think of it. But the penetration nothing to big if you run CB, as you should..
thick condor
The gun handling is the bigger difference imo
abstract slate
Stb is also slower than a leopard, not much but it can be noticed, still my fav
iron lynx
I like the Leopard 1
Fast and punchy
tawdry moat
Yea little slower. But stb is also my choice too.
Leopard 1, biggest flaw is the ammo rack.. always getting hit..
abstract slate
I have the adamant camo for it, its a bit underwhelming, but i really liked that the tanks name changed to adamant so i got it. But they changed that...
I keep being told the leo is the worst tier X med by one of my friends, cuz it can be 183 heshed. But all can...
tawdry moat
The leopard isnt the worse.. imo all of them are good, but for some reason i just feel like the m48 patton is the worse..i would say Fv4202.. but i have a soft spot fot that one..
abstract slate
The hesh is interesting, all i can say of the fv is that it has the best hesh out of all tier X meds. Like that means much
The idea of having a non hesh gun on that just makes no sense to me
tawdry moat
Same.. i rarely take that heat gun.. the fv4202 no way a competition tank, you just roll with it for fun. And whats more fun then HESH?. And best tier 10 hesh gun yep.. its the only one xD
unique scaffold
E50 M is troll many times, it's capable of deflecting also 183 AP easily if used as it should
warped grove
so, is there anyone here who can't hit Foch head?
dusky oxide
Head?
noble siren
He means the "cupola" which receives 2/10 hits(penetrations). Why you want to buff the russian tds and french tds while they are way more better than German tds
median gust
T110E3's cupola is somewhat impenetrable in the hands of a skilled player, Grille 15 HEAT ammunition struggles to penetrate
atomic hound
@unique scaffold you say easily... Have you ever looked at an e50m through the sights of a 183 before mate? All green. All of it. Everywhere. If you bounce one you either get lucky, or the driver sucks (since the last one is pretty likely you can still definitely bounce shots, but it is far from reliable)
Hell, back when I played the 183 I'd load hesh Vs e50ms, the lower plate and sides are easy targets, even at very surprising angles.
dusky oxide
@warped grove its not about hitting, its about penning
fiery cairn
Still waiting for English tanks
atomic hound
The grille 15 is a tank clearly intended to be a sniper, with the mobility to relocate to relevant positions as the game progresses, but I believe, due to various statistics, and the state of wot blitz as a game, it is subpar in this role.
I'll break up my essay into sections to make it easier to write, but this all ties together with the aim of a tank that can fit the role I described.
The gun.
Stats:
-best accuracy in game
-highest RoF with 640 alpha gun in game
-very good aim time
-relatively poor AP pen
-poor HEAT pen
-dreadful gun bloom
-wide gun arc
-poor gun depression
The grille 15 certainly has an amazing gun, and this aspect of the tank is the one I agree with most in its current state. The tank has enough pen to snipe weakspots, and the accuracy to hit them. The bloom is bad, making it poorly suited to snapshotting, which I fully agree with
I honestly do not see, however, why this tank needs the RoF it currently has, and since most of my proposed changes to the grille will be buffs, this could be nerfed to compensate without changing the role of the tank in any way.
Mobility
Stats:
-good top speed
-decent effective power/weight ratio
-dreadful traverse speeds
-poor reverse speed
This is an interesting aspect of the tank. The overall mobility of the tank is adequate for its role as a sniper, with 1 exception, and 1 point relevant to the camo.
The traverse speed honestly feels punishing. At the start of a game you will often have to drive to either a corner or a hill, and then turn the tank around to face the enemy and set the camo net, but the dreadful traverse makes this incredibly painful. Tanks such as the obj268 can get into position far quicker, despite a much smaller gun arc and a lower top speed simply because of this. I propose a buff to the traverse speed of 4-5°/s, not enough to render CoD difficult when facing a grille, but enough to make getting into position smoother.
My additional comment here is that the reverse speed, coupled with the dreadful camo rating of the tank currently leaves you incredibly vulnerable, though I do not propose a change to reverse speed, due to the camo being the true issue
Camo and Armour
Stats:
-no armour
-dreadful camo
This is the most ridiculous part of the tank.
To reliably not be spotted by tier X tanks, you need to be 250-300m from them. This is frankly ridiculous. The armour profile is what we are used to by driving this line, and is not an issue. There is clearly no balance issue to stealthy tanks with paper armour, see the previous 3 tanks in the line, so why ditch this with the grille? It is honestly inexplicable to me why this tank was intentionally designed with such a terrible camo rating.
Many of the maps in blitz don't have 250-300m corridors, especially not viable ones. Quite simply, this tank is not suited to blitz. On maps such as mines, if your team is pushing and you are in a grille 15, you are almost certainly completely useless, for example. Maps like middleburg, where going hill is just about the only viable way to play the map leave you utterly screwed when you will be spotted even at the back of the map by medium tanks. The price of getting spotted in the grille is also getting higher and higher, with the high saturation of tanks with enough HE alpha to kill you in 2 shots.
In short, the camo of the tank directly opposes its role on the battlefield.
So overall, I think the grille needs the following changes:
-lower RoF (the 2 tanks before it also had lower RoF than russian counterparts, remember)
-increase traverse speed to more reasonable levels
-massively buff the camo value
Not only would these changes increase tech tree line consistency, they would allow the grille to perform as a mobile sniper in a more reasonable and balanced fashion.
I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this (and even more interested if wg actually reads it, this is called chat with Devs, but I've never seen any.)
lunar niche
Grille as it is now just feels like a downgrade from the tier 9 waffletractor.
It loses all flexibility for topspeed, dpm and accuracy. Bad gun depression, no 180 turning turret and superheavy like traverse.
atomic hound
Exactly my thoughts. I've been telling myself that from the day I got it.
Also, to preemptively diffuse any 'youre just saying that because you can't drive it' reactions, back when I was playing the tank for the stats (I soon stopped, it was far too intense for me)
main tulip
@atomic hound Are you serious only 4-5 degrees of traverse buff? It needs 50 degrees per second and 1200 engine power
dusky oxide
If you made those chamges to the grille, youd have an even worse meta. The things you want to get buffed are vulnverabilities that other TDs should have as well. I agree with you that grille isnt a very versatile or powerful tank. I believe it can be unforgiving but i dont think giving a tank that already has a semi traversable turret more traverse or reverse speed would be fair on the mediums that have to be able to dig it out from some corner. I also dont think good mobility, good stealth and high alpha should go together. Its very hard and risky to buff those things.
shy wren
It was originally nerfed as it was too mobile and flanked alongside the mediums @main tulip
dusky oxide
Im saying you also need to remember that the reason grille is in a bad spot is because the other tds are more well-rounded and easy to use. Which they shouldnt be. You should have to work for your dmg score in tier x. Maybe the reason tds seem so easy to use is that theres too many of them in mathes and they can block off huge areas.
If there was more movement in the matches which would require a smaller risk for that movement, ie less tds and high alpha guns, im sure grille would be in a way better place.
fiery cairn
Buff the grille
atomic hound
@dusky oxide perhaps I'd agree with you more if the tried and tested rhm. Borsig and wt auf pz 4 didn't exist. It also isn't like there aren't stealthy tier 10 TD snipers, the 268 can do that. Neither the rhm nor the wt. are able to be circled due to very high traverse and 360° gun traverse, I'm not suggesting that.
dusky oxide
A tank like the 183 is hard to force out of the meta and a tank like the grille is hard to make fit into it right now.
fiery cairn
I mostly agree with the speed and traverse part
lunar niche
As long as it has bad camo + traverse combo, it will perform bad imo. One needs to be changed.
iron lynx
The Grille 15 isn't that bad
It's just the other TDs are too good in comparison
fiery cairn
It’s lighter than the Fv 183 yet the Fv still turns faster
viral nimbus
Buff amx line wg ..
amx tire5 have a tire 6 gun
Amx tire 6 have a tire 6 gun
Amx tire 7 have a tire 6 gun
Buff amx line wg
iron lynx
Um
Tier 6 gun, but is autoloaded
dusky oxide
@atomic hound im sure. I havent played any of those tanks. My exp comes from tooning with grille players and seeing what kind of positions they use and of course playing against them in a med. The grille doesnt work well when it gets caught out, but it doesnt seem to be able to excel in its main thing either which would need more movement.
fiery cairn
The grille 15 can’t take on any tier 10 by itself
It is a 2 -3 shot for every single heavy and TD
It can be easily circled and had no gun depression
Half the time the map is to small to function as sniper
It has a horrible camo rating
quick lichen
@iron lynx don’t you know, light tanks are supposed to shoot, not spot
@fiery cairn 100% agree
iron lynx
How about both
heavy bloom
Hmmm... should Matilda be given its derp gun back?
fiery cairn
The grill should be able to turn its turret more to compensate for its low traverse
quick lichen
It’s not like historically, light tanks have weaker guns so that they can’t pen heavies from the front
That would require them to flank. And that’s hard
atomic hound
@dusky oxide if you've never played it, I'm sure you just don't understand how much worse the camo is compared to its predecessors. It's honestly dreadful, if you don't have a bush you're spotted, unless you're shooting across the entire map.
fiery cairn
For me personally, the best map for the grille is canal
lunar niche
Canal is big and Grille can use its weird gun depression on hill too lol.
quick lichen
Canal is the best map in blitz
fiery cairn
It needs big open maps to thrive properly.
atomic hound
I agree
quick lichen
Every tank is useful there
viral nimbus
Agree
wraith lance
Agree x3
quick lichen
Good ways to attack and defend
dusky oxide
I dont, i just remember it being worse that the ds. And that the turret is very tall and the bloom doesnt allow you to move around to dodge anything. A wt can at least turn its turret to face the rear and hide half the hull. @atomic hound
fiery cairn
A WT is superior to the grille at handling meds
atomic hound
Basically, in the 2 tanks before you can pull some unbelievable stunts because they have such amazing camo, whereas the grille has camo like the biggest heavy tanks... @dusky oxide
lunar niche
Waffle is superior just because of that full turret and all the gun angles.
fiery cairn
I^
teal olive
People complaining that buffing the grille would change the meta for the worse are wrong, grille players are good players and don’t sit in the back doing nothing like other TDs, they relocate to better positions and use the HP of their teams to do damage, they don’t just sit in the back and do nothing like muppets like other TD drivers do.
iron lynx
Koff koff
183
lunar niche
@teal olive depends on the driver.
fiery cairn
I play very passive with my grille
atomic hound
I play incredibly aggressively, which is unbelievably stressful
Last time I played it wastelands was still a thing, which was awful.
fiery cairn
Once your spotted don’t expect kindness. Your hit with a 900 damage HE
dusky oxide
Just add the wt e100, throw grille to tier 8 or something, bag tier x, bury it and move to new ways to create a balanced, dynamic, long-lasting and fun gameplay exoerience. There wont be any saving tier x if the meta gets worse.
lunar niche
Grille doesn't have the reverse speed or traverse to play aggressive.
iron lynx
WT E100 is even worse lmao
atomic hound
Take a look at my stats then dude. They're ^^^^
lunar niche
Wt E100 but without the autoloader. Choice between 128mm or 15 cm. Just give us a buffed up tier 9 waffle lol.
fiery cairn
Just remove the grille
atomic hound
That tank had dreadful camo too, so no.
iron lynx
I'd rather want a continuation of no-armor, sneeki breeki snipers of the Borsig-Waffentrager tradition
viral nimbus
Make fv183 autoloader
fiery cairn
But the camo on the WT e100 makes senses causes it huge
atomic hound
Give me the wt with the accuracy, aim time and pen of the grille at tier 10. Leave the RoF, the mobility, etc.
You don't need 11.2s reload, 14s is fine.
dusky oxide
@atomic hound i feel like the mobile, light, stealthy and high dpm tanks arent good at tier x because theres an attempt to give them a high skill ceiling but not too much performance that a good player can be better than a 45%er in an e100
iron lynx
WT with the Grille gun stats is enough
Don't mind the rest
fiery cairn
My main problem with the grille is it’s health
quick lichen
Grille needs it’s traverse and speed back or, give it camo
atomic hound
Honestly, when you transition between what is imho the best tier-for-tier sniper in the entire game (the wt) to the grille, it makes the grille feel perhaps even worse than it actually is, but it still needs a buff.
fiery cairn
The grille is only known for its gun. Take away its great accuracy and it’s garbage
atomic hound
Everything else about it sucks, what do you expect.
lunar niche
I grinded WT with 128mm gun. It was the best sniping experience i ever had.
quick lichen
The biggest issue with the grille is it’s inflexibility
Do anything and you get spotted
unique scaffold
I’d say that Grille needs camo buff to snipe and relocate properly
storm light
grille def needs a camo buff
atomic hound
If only wg would listen...
fiery cairn
Yes it’s speedy, but because of its horrible traverse, it’s a pain to relocate. And if the meds catch you your dead
unique scaffold
But with better camo you could hide from meds
storm light
better camo you could auctually snipe
fiery cairn
Even the emil has better traverse than the grille
What if we buff the grilles damage to 550-880
teal olive
What do you all think about the grilles gun depression?
unique scaffold
Emil has worse speed and no semi-traversable turret, the traverse made Grille OP when it was released
atomic hound
It doesn't need godly traverse. It just needs traverse that isn't absolutely dreadful.
fiery cairn
WG: we have heard your complaints so we’re buffing the grilles accuracy
unique scaffold
Oof
teal olive
The worst at tier ten (Out of the TDs at least) and with its horrible pen, once an IS tank gets up in your face, you’re dead, because u can’t get the gun down, cant pen the turret with HEAT, and cant traverse away.
lunar niche
@fiery cairn Tank that accurate shouldn't have high AP/HEAT pen. Next update nerf to pen lmao.
fiery cairn
The thing that makes me mad is the fact that the grille has no armor yet its traverse is so slow. Makes no sense.
unique scaffold
JagdPanzer E 100 is worse IMO, because slower, bad traverse, armor that gets wrecked by HEAT spamming tanks, and the dreadful constant low rolls
It also has the worst WR and dmg of tier 10
fiery cairn
The isu has better pen than the grille.....
iron lynx
But the Grille 15 has a lightsaber to block shots
unique scaffold
ISU-152 is broken, no tank should negate armor like that
fiery cairn
What if WG just made the grilles camo rating to zero
teal olive
@unique scaffold agreed. It’s fun but its a garbage tank
atomic hound
The pen isn't a huge issue, you can run CS to put it on the same sort of level as the other tier 10 TDs.
unique scaffold
What about removing the flat part of Kampfpanzer 70 turret?
I mean it’s big and it can’t hulldown very well with it
fiery cairn
Imagine a grille but with a box turret
unique scaffold
Replace Grille 15 with waffle
iron lynx
Imagine a Grille but its the tier V PC artillery
unique scaffold
Imagine a grill to cook meat
fiery cairn
Imagine adding a tank tank with no armor no health and no camo rating to a game where maps are small and there are no sniping spots, and then nerfing the tank with no armor so that it needs a buff, but you decide not to buff it
viral nimbus
Lol
iron lynx
WG did buff
Irrelevant stats
unique scaffold
Imagine adding a tank that is balanced, but nerfing it to hell because it can track Dracs for 4s and then totally forgetting about it
fiery cairn
Imagine making a tier 10 tank that can lose to any tank light tank in the game
atomic hound
Accuracy is a pretty meaningless stat if you have the sort of pen tanks like the 183 and the 268 enjoy anyway.
lunar niche
No worries, WG is gonna buff the length of Grille's gun next update.
iron lynx
That is actually more convincing than WG actually buffing the camo
teal olive
Don’t worry, WG will make the Jag lowroll even more often
fiery cairn
Alright I’m gonna do battle with the grille and then I’m gonna discuss it
teal olive
Lol sold mine awhile ago
iron lynx
WG removed Jag 170mm, replaced with 15cm gun
dusky oxide
@unique scaffold u mean on the right side of the turret when youre facing it, behind the viewfinder?
unique scaffold
Exactly
teal olive
Ikr, thats exactly how it feels sometimes. Sucks when you hit a 268 for 680, angle up, then he smacks ya back for 740
dusky oxide
I agree, its annoying when you have to peek using that side. And the engine deck is pennable too -_-
atomic hound
Rng is just like that, I'm afraid. It isn't that the Jag gets it worse than anything else.
iron lynx
Heh
The Jag is supposed to be the one with higher alpha
But WG
atomic hound
You're inclined to remember the bad experiences and forget the good ones, that's how your brain works.
teal olive
I know that RNG is just like that but it really seems that way with the jag, I just bought my jag the other day, played 100 battle in it, and am already realizing a common theme
dusky oxide
What is this jageru low roll conspiracy youre all in?
iron lynx
Actually, the Jag does get it worse than anything else @atomic hound
lunar niche
Jag lowrolls far too often compared to other 640 alpha tds or even 183.
700+ is acceptable for 800 avg gun. But rolling 650 is not.
teal olive
I’m not in on any conspiracy, but it does seem a little odd.
dusky oxide
I mean, the limits are stated in the ammo selection screen and gun stat screen
wraith lance
The IS-8 lowrolls a lot, too
iron lynx
I mean, it is not uncommon to roll sub-700 damage in 4 out of 5 shots in the Jageru
unique scaffold
T-54 Ltwt low rolls a lot too, but still a very good tank
iron lynx
Yeah, but a tank which basically relies on its gun, it isn't looking good.
dusky oxide
@lunar niche jag can even roll 600.
fiery cairn
Alright I finished the battle
lunar niche
Recently, the lowrolls have lessened in my case. Been rolling 700+ quite often and 640+ here and there. I even rolled 1500 against a tier 9 med, first time in my case and second time i have seen a max HE roll.
atomic hound
Considering you have a 25% chance to roll in the 600s...
lunar niche
@dusky oxide My pic is jag rolling a perfect 600 against E100.
fiery cairn
I once rolled a 480 on the back of a Foch using ap
teal olive
Haha. I should change my pic to my 268 max rolling
Btw thats not possible, @fiery cairn unless you splashed with HE
thick condor
480 is the min roll of 640 guns
iron lynx
Grille 15, I assume
teal olive
Ah, i see
dusky oxide
@lunar niche well' it wont roll a single hp lower than 600 since its the min roll. I dont see what the problem is. Higher alpha, higher variation between output.
atomic hound
You'd probably best go to #539857122113093632 for this btw
dusky oxide
^
unique scaffold
Nope, #539857122113093632 is for pen RNG. Also Jageroo seems to have a serious problem, others tank don’t seem to low roll that much
atomic hound
Either way, rng isn't balance.
lunar niche
@dusky oxide Never rolled 200 lower than given avg dmg in other tds. Even 183 rolled consistent 800+.
teal olive
Yet wargaming (If they ever even read or responded to this discussion) would deny it
iron lynx
Balance the Jageru by fixing the alpha RNG
teal olive
No kidding, that’d be a start. I love my jag already but I can tell it just lacks compared to other TDs
dusky oxide
@lunar niche go in the game and look at the gun stat that says what the dmg is min-max. Or the ammo selection screen.
lunar niche
@dusky oxide I have seen that and i know how much the minimum lowrolls are. My point is, Jag seems to lowroll far too often compared to other tds.
dusky oxide
Unless you provide an excel full of your dmg rolls from like 200 games its very hard for me to believe
teal olive
@dusky oxide you really don’t understand what we’re talking about do you? Our point is that the jag lowrolls a lot more often than any other tank. Not that we don’t know the roll limits
iron lynx
When you have 800 average alpha damage but rolls sub-700 in four out of five shots…
dusky oxide
@teal olive i do understand that, i just dont understand why a tank would lowroll more than others since its based on rng purely.
Or what that would have to do with balance.
teal olive
I don’t know, could be a glitch or could be intentional, could be one of those “Secret nerfs” that people love to talk about
lunar niche
@dusky oxide i have 1500+ games in it. Why would i lie about lowrolls? Why would any Jag drivers lie about it?
Why is 183 not rolling 690 or 700? Why are other 640 alpha tds not rolling 480 or 510?
iron lynx
Or WG messed up on the Jageru RNG range part
unique scaffold
The RNG just feels biased or totally glitched on Jageroo
lunar niche
RNG is random and i don't really mind it. But when 6 out of 10 shots lowrolls, there is something wrong.
unique scaffold
9 shots out of 10 low rolls on Jag
teal olive
Indeed it does. And keep in mind I’ve only played about 100 games in it as its my newest tier ten but I already know that something is off
dusky oxide
@lunar niche the same reason theres 9k replies on matchmaking discussion thread. I really couldnt know and unless aomeone makes a graph of it, we wont know.
You think its a glitch? A misplaced decimal like on a keni otsu?
unique scaffold
Something like that
teal olive
Could be intentional, WG doesnt seem to take kindly towards Germans... but I also dont want to be like “REEEE RUSSIAN BIAST”
iron lynx
Well, they did add the VK 100
lunar niche
@dusky oxide well even if MM was 'balanced' or 'fixed', there will always be someone complaining about rigged and unfair MM.
This lowrolling problem was talked in PC wot too.
fiery cairn
Huh who called me
unique scaffold
The thing is that MM sometimes makes winning streaks, while I hardly ever rolled 800+ in Jag without the high roll skill
teal olive
Yeah. Well there’s likely nothing we can do about it besides acknowledge that it’s there. WG would never change it.
fiery cairn
WG should just delete the game
teal olive
Watched a Jag replay on YouTube and the poor guy lowrolled mid-high 600s three times in a row.
@fiery cairn Ah yessss great idea. Well at the end of the day... at least us blitz players can say this.... “At least we’re not Console players!” Lolll
unique scaffold
Cries on console
fiery cairn
I play wot blitz on my nokia
unique scaffold
O O F
dusky oxide
Since we were discussing probabilities, i want take a moment to cry about 121B's low module and crew hp. You even run out of med-/repairkits often -_- Its a common problem on chinese tanks but the avg alpha is even higher at tier x so modules and crew are more prone to get dmged
unique scaffold
I never faced a 121b so I can’t really talk about it
dusky oxide
Does the 121 suffer from a similar problem?
unique scaffold
And faced very few 121s
dusky oxide
@unique scaffold theres tons of them now as its on sale. You'll see one soon
unique scaffold
I sold my tier 10s to make some creds, I only have some 8s now
But there’s data for module HP on some tank comparing sites (maybe blitzstars), maybe go check and compare with others ?
dusky oxide
Ive looked at it and the hp might be right but the ammoracks and commander/loader are on the wrong side of the tank on the 121b so im not sure how acvurate it is... On armor inspector that is
solar lark
When I was nub, I sold my T25 for credits
That was 2 years ago, let’s not talk about that.
junior tulip
@dusky oxide indeed on your question. As a Chinese medium player, I've discovered that Chinese meds suffer from ammo racks VERY often, seeing as the rack is in the front. I have to run double repair instead of engine boost because of how fragile the tanks are
teal olive
T25 tier five is Garbo anyway
unique scaffold
It is a balanced tank I think, I got it in Black Friday event for 1k gold obtained from missions, so basically for free, and I like it, good deal
fiery cairn
Imagine if WG actually added English tanks. Still waiting for them
coarse harness
I never ever got ammo rack in a chinese tank from 800 battles or maybe i just don't remember cauz i would be one shot anyways🤔
distant river
You get them every kill ahot @coarse harness , theyre so common you dont notice them
main tulip
You’re complaining about chinese meds when the T-44 is the tank in game that I have ammoracked most by a long shot
distant river
and what were the chinese meds based on?
coarse harness
I think i notice that if i get an ammo rack😬
atomic hound
All I know is that my t34-3 loses a module or a crew member every time it gets hit. Most commonly are the ammo rack, the engine, and the driver, not forgetting the fuel tanks... So it burns, blows up, and spends far too long crawling at 20kph. It gets incredibly irritating.
smoky yoke
Don't show hull , only show turret
median gust
?
quick lichen
@atomic hound common for Chinese tanks I find
tawdry moat
Chinese and Russian meds have thier ammo racks in the same place.. i find them getting racked very commonly. By fsr the t54, and the type 59 gets racked the most. And for the t-34-3 to get racked easy good.. it has so much 122mm shells in that tiny tank.. with the amount in there should get racked if i hit the tracks xD
dusky oxide
@smoky yoke easier said than done. Sometimes you just have to use your hp to make a play. Its pretty hard not to show your right side if your enemy is on the right.
lunar niche
So, i'm pretty sure that shot was meant for my LFP but instead hit the 80mm armour behind tracks.
Is anyone getting penned in this area?
dusky oxide
But you have to admit that its pretty ingenious to desing the fuel cell to act as protection in front of the right side ammorack. You dont get racked from the front as easily and a fuel cell can be repaired/diesel doesnt catch on fire easily.
@lunar niche yeah it can be done even in a med, simultaneously tracking and doing dmg. Not from that angle but add 5-10°
lunar niche
A ridiculous weakspot wether it was intended or not.
dusky oxide
I think it was, but i dont think many people realize its there.
smoky yoke
I'd say in all my Russian and Chinese games I rarely get ammo racked.
I have Russian bias
dusky oxide
Theres been quite some ammoracks in 5k games but im more annoyed by the constant module and crew dmg, racks are just a consequence. I cant say the same for my is7, but then again, its an is7 so who's to say its balanced :D
rustic fossil
@teal olive why don’t you record the alpha damage for 50 shots and then run a t-test to prove that the average alpha is below 800 HP (the expected value).
shrewd kiln
Lower the repair coast on WZ-113 and VK 72.02, that's rediculous.
Maus: 5.2
E100: 5.5
IS-7: 6
WZ-113: 11.17
VK: 12
What kind of logic is that? I can't get shot in my WZ unless I wanna make 10K-20K minus.
true meteor
WG and logic? 😂 🍻
unique scaffold
Every time WG introduces a tank, they give it hecking bad repair cost. It was the same for BC 25t. Idk y
devout karma
Not to mention, the vk 72 is pure trash
lone warren
an added bonus to a weak tank
shrewd kiln
And that's why it already has a 9K damage record. @devout karma
@unique scaffold
Not the same for the chinese meds. Not the same for the Mäuschen und the VK 100 also hasn't really bad repair coast.
cunning kindle
Ikr flawless logic
lone warren
A good player can make any tank work. Doesnt change the fact the tank performs weakly at its tier across the board
shrewd kiln
It shows that it can't be that bad, if it has the same damage record after a few weeks as the E100 has after a few years.
unique scaffold
I want heavies to lose coated optics, the track HP equipment and some terrain resistance.
quick lichen
That’s not true at all
If the entire enemy team gives you their sides and they don’t shoot you, any tank is good
You realize 8k plus games are mostly luck right?
You have to be lucky that the other team is oblivious to you
You have to be lucky that your team has no idea how to shoot and you can farm
The skill portion usually isn’t as important in those games
Yes you have to make the right moves but the difference between 5-6k and 8-9k is if you get yoloed or your team mate
lone warren
Especially if you’re scoring 9k damage with a garbage gun the vk 72 has
unique scaffold
I’m tired of full teams going 1 side of the map
quick lichen
@lone warren 183 has the highest damage ever recorded. Must be the best tank in the game
shrewd kiln
Yeah sure I realise that, but hecc, the VK ain't as bad as you all act imao..
quick lichen
But it is
The only reason why it’s stats are better than the e100 is that most good players gave up on the e100 with the calibrated heat spam
shrewd kiln
@unique scaffold
I also see that the last months. Also om Yamato my teams like never go to the ship. It just seems like some maps only get used in certain ways lately.
quick lichen
The vk 72 has the worst dpm in tier x and it’s a “super heavy” that can get penned no matter what angle you’re at
unique scaffold
They should give heavies worse terrain resistance and also replace optics and tracks equipment so the meta is balanced
quick lichen
Woah now
shrewd kiln
Oof....
quick lichen
Back off with that logic stuff
shrewd kiln
Then you gotta also nerf a bunch of the others.
unique scaffold
Wdym
quick lichen
Nothing else would need to be changed
Wait. If you take optics off of heavies then you have to take them off tds
unique scaffold
True TDs too
shrewd kiln
TDs are a way bigger problem than heavies.
unique scaffold
Tier 8 meta is a joke
Double Löwe platoons and tons of IS-like tanks going on a lemming train
shrewd kiln
That's what I mean. I thought Sheev meant that for the heavies too, even though I don't really see why that would be.
quick lichen
I stand by what I said weeks ago
Vk 100 is the light
It’s the first and only tank to ruin is spam
lone warren
Not to mention its a support class yet you can three of them on either team which just makes gameplay annoying.
Worse on maps like mines
unique scaffold
True. Teams should always be mostly meds, rest are support so they are less
Although I’d like WG to add more tier 9/10 lights, as they have literally no importance in the current meta apart from BC
shrewd kiln
On mines I think it's kinda fun. On Yamato it annoys me though. You can't really go out of cover because 2-3 TDs are camping behind the bush on the other side and your meds most of the times just suicide.
unique scaffold
Mines are horrible because they cause trench fight like in WW1, no ones want to get out of cover because they’d get rekt within seconds, sometimes a push but often unsuccessful
iron lynx
Mines meta is easy
Who crosses the hill to the other side, loses
unique scaffold
^
shrewd kiln
A flank can help, I find that kind of fight on the hill kinda amusing if my team doesn't suicide by trying to rush way too early.
atomic hound
@quick lichen hardly the only one. IS spam is definitely declining now, there are just too many tanks that have power creeped derpy heavies with troll armour. Tier 8 has become saturated with ever more powerful premiums that almost universally counter that style of tank, look at the CDC, the wz-120-1g ft, the M4 49, the löwe, the t34, the mutant, etc.
Back when I was spending almost no money on the game, my only means of grinding credits was through the is5, and by the time I'd played almost 800 games in it, the meta had changed enough for me to never want to touch it again. Every tier 9 tank, universally, chews on IS tanks better than any other tank (excluding the trashiest tech tree vehicles like the t28) in the tier, assuming both players are skilled.
Even looking at tier 8 tournaments recently, the number of IS tanks is unbelievably low compared to what I understand it used to be like, and we also run them infrequently, favouring the M4 49, the löwe, and the t34
quick lichen
@atomic hound we no longer buy 7.5 tier, tier 8 premiums like the old lowe, t34, is6 and kv5
Instead the premiums are not only as good but better than the tech tree tanks
T34/32 are excellent in the right conditions but the vk is really what ruins is spam to be
Actual armor and weak points where Russian gun accuracy and bad pen fail
atomic hound
The buffed löwe already did that. Hull down the cheeks are impossible to hit with a derpy gun, face hugging the upper plate isn't 100% HEAT pennable, and isn't pennable at all if it is angled, and when at range the lower plate isn't a particularly easy target either (speaking from experience here)
Löwe also has the pen and accuracy never to bounce, and the DPM to tear you up quickly.
Don't get me wrong, the VK certainly minces IS spam, but it was hardly the first, and is nowhere near as common as tanks like the löwe are
undone coral
Is it me or is the gap between tier 7 and 8 waaaay too big? The pen difference between tier 6 and 7 heavys is about 20mm while tier 7 to 8 heavys is about 50
atomic hound
Not particularly. It's a bigger jump between tier 8 and 9. Medium tank DPM rises massively, heavies will all have enough pen to butter every tier 8 other than the vk100, the alpha jump in mediums is huge, too.
Excluding Chinese meds and the t44 running the 122 (which is unbelievably stupid, but whatever) the highest alpha at tier 8 is on the revalorisé, 310, which is the lowest at tier 9.
white vessel
What about chinese meds
unique scaffold
He said excluding Chinese meds
rustic fossil
@quick lichen The Wz-120 TD is provably the best OP high Tier tank. No other tank has speed, armor, DPM and decent pen. The VK only has armor and pen and is sorely lacking anything else. Next best seems to be the M4 49
uncut fractal
vk has alpha damege aswell
atomic hound
I don't think anyone would dispute that the WZ-120-1G FT is the most overpowered tier 8 tank. @rustic fossil
dusky oxide
Yeah, id sell my collector vehicles for that win rate boost
unique scaffold
@atomic hound. If there is one thing I've learned here it is that there will ALWAYS be someone who will dispute [insert topic here].
atomic hound
@unique scaffold ok, I'll rephrase it. Nobody that knows what they're talking about would dispute it.
ashen rune
😂
jovial kernel
So 90% of this server would dispute it? Got it.
shrewd kiln
Talking about WZ-120, yesterday I had one who called me a noob after I shot him. He had 1.2K Damage and I 2.4K with an IS-3. I love players like that.
brisk lily
The hezter is broken when you're in a bottom tier tank
Prem shells cant even go through the lower plate sometimes and the traverse speed makes it impossible to COD it.
shy wren
The frontal armor has always been like that, but that traverse speed though, too fast. It wasn’t like that before this
brisk lily
Enough proof?
median gust
I like it tho
wraith lance
It has like 80° of traverse
brisk lily
basically they took away the one thing low tiers tanks can use to kill it if they cant pen the frontal armour
uncut fractal
yup cuz its now all bout german bias in low tiers and the dw2 still keeps its old alpha damege meanwhile the tier 4 american td has its dameged reduced and its a td not a heavy and its the same tier also the bt7 arty is now useless as every tank of its tier and higher got a huge armour buff therefore cant pen a single tank meaning that its now german bias
teal olive
Jag 👏 is 👏 trash
unique scaffold
waffle is op
shrewd kiln
Emil is OP.
dim field
Wg OP
white vessel
Emil great but rhm is horrible
iron lynx
Rhm horrible?
Lmao
white vessel
It has no armor, the gun is bad and its not versatile
iron lynx
- Yeah it has no armor, but a sniper won't need a lot of it anyway
- 150mm nuke launcher with 330 HEAT pen is bad???
- It has a turret, that alone makes it more versatile than most TDs when sniping
- Also don't forget its very good camo values (top 5 best camo in the game if I'm right), and turret + camo net + insane camo = near-invisible sniper
dim field
Rhm and Isu-152 are probably the best tech tree Tds for tier 8
indigo knot
Nope ..... Jpanther2 is best td for me....
dim field
Jp2 is pretty fun. I like my Isu more but have had a few games where Jp2 slaughtered
Was on that one map that a town and starts with A (i think not sure). They thought they i was an easy target when i was near town. Ended game with 4k dmg and 3 kills
indigo knot
When there was wz120ft spam then I was frustrated ....i started playing JP2 and Isu.....there gun balanced that tank well
white vessel
I dont care if it has high alpha and high pen if you cant hit anything with its lacking accuracy, aimtime and bullet veloicity
Its gun depression also sucks
The fact that it has a turret doesnt make it versatile as its slow as hell
cunning kindle
Slow? U got to be joking broda, rhm is a very good tank at t8 and if u hate 150 mm i think there is a very accurate 128 mm gun
white vessel
Yes but the 128mm is has a really bad DPM
dim field
Turret means it's easier to get shots off while still having cover compared to a turretless tank. You can peek out from a rock that has a bush, wait for your shot, shoot and slide bacl behind the rock. In a turretless you have to maneuver around more each time.
white vessel
You cant peak with rhm without dying
cunning kindle
-_- u cant have everything :/
white vessel
If its just a gun with tracks, I except it to be god
cunning kindle
A full traversable turret, godly camo, good gun handling(its not that bad), good mobility
white vessel
Shit mobility
iron lynx
This coming from a St Emil user lmao
cunning kindle
Hm i've driven it and it felt pretty good the mobility
white vessel
St emil has good gun and good gundep
iron lynx
The Rhm also has a good gun
Accuracy is not really good but you usually engaged enemies up to 300m anyway.
white vessel
Then again why wont you use Isu for sniping
iron lynx
Because in ISU you would be spotted really easily
Rhm has bad armor but if it stays invisible, nobody can shoot it
Don't forget that camo nets don't reset if you are moving your turret.
dim field
^
Rhm and Isu are basically rivals.
Rhm can stay hidden easier and can get shots off easier than Isu-152. Isu has slightly better armor and throws most everything into its gun. Isu has iirc the least amount of hp amoung the tier 8 TDs. Isu also has worse camo ability and requires more maneuvering to line up their shots amd move back into cover because it is turretless.
unique scaffold
The HP pool isn’t very relevant when comparing it to Rhm, as Rhm can be HE spammed. Camo is what makes the difference IMO. But I still think that 286 pen with 14sec reload at tier 8 is broken
dim field
It's kinda relevant in a way. Yes am ISU can pen rhm with he, but that lower hp means the rhm might not need to pen the isu with HE. I'll double check but the isu might have 200 less hp.
unique scaffold
Only 90 less HP
Honestly I’d like that ISU to lose the BL-10 gun and have a BL-4S instead
dim field
Yeah it's close than i thought.
iron lynx
When an enemy RHM pens both of them and high rolls 1100 damage, who will survive tho.
Assuming both use improved assembly since additional armor is nothing.
dim field
No i like my Bl-10
unique scaffold
I’m not sure it could pen ISU, even its rear, with HE
dim field
Thing about Rhm vs ISU
ISU is gonna be spotted first usually and the rhm will possibly get back to cover faster as well.
iron lynx
Sorry, I penned an ISU from the front with an HE shell
For 900+
dim field
I've been nailed by an Rhm frontally aswell. I was peaking over a rock and i think they caught me as i was backing up
unique scaffold
What how
Did you hit the top of it ?
Rhm is a very good tank but that ISU feels broken to me
dim field
Isu is actually pretty balanced to me. Yes it packs a punch but overall it's squishy and turretless. Not to mention it has a nasty habit of hitting peoples tracks for 0 dmg
iron lynx
Directly through the front, below the gun @unique scaffold
dim field
We have a joke in my clan where I'm referred to as "The track master" given my ability to some how hit peoples tracks 50% of the time. If even 2% of the circle is over the track Ik more than likely hitting that track.
unique scaffold
Not OP, but broken, as 183 was. It has ability to negate armor, with good accuracy if not on the move
atomic hound
ISU feels dreadful to play (to me) but is a nightmare to come up against (when played well), the borsig is a joy to drive, and still a nightmare to come up against. Run CS and you get 367mm of HEAT, which is utterly ridiculous.
iron lynx
At least FV183 cannot be HE through the front @unique scaffold
unique scaffold
That’s weird as ISU has like 90 or 100mm front armor
dim field
It can't negate armor unless you specifically aim for the weak spots. Isu through all of it's stuff into its gun.
I use faster reload over Cs. I can take riskier shots or if i hit the tracks i don't have to wait as long
unique scaffold
286 mm pen at tier 8 is a joke, more than all T9s but Obj 704 and more than some tier 10, with better reload than T110E4
iron lynx
I run calibrated shells on my Rhm
Pulls up the HE pen to 94 @unique scaffold
I think ISU has 90mm of armor on its big lower plate
unique scaffold
I didn’t remember Rhm had that much HE pen, hence the HE pen at its front
dim field
Yeah Isu has 90 frontal
iron lynx
I wouldn't have penned if I'm not running CS
Alas
unique scaffold
Talking off ISU topic, has anyone played T-34-1 and 2 here?
iron lynx
@unique scaffold
Can we switch to #general-blitz-discussion ?
The slowmode is pissing me off
unique scaffold
Ok
dim field
I can understand wanting better pen. It's all preference. More pen means easier shots, faster reload equals more chances to take a shot.
unique scaffold
I don’t even need that much pen, I run the 128mm on Rhm and it’s very effective
dim field
I'll be glad when i finally pick up an Rhm. Currently at the St... though I've been on breal until event is over.
unique scaffold
I find Sturer Emil to be an underrated pile of fun
dim field
I gotta get used to it. Currently still need that top gun.
worthy basin
atomic hound
I last played it before the buffs, and despite great stats, I hated it. The stock gun was a pain, and the mobility was dreadful. I think the d max is a better tank (or at least was)
@worthy basin yeah, I honestly wondered before I sent the message...
Fairly amusing that wg censors the name of their tank though... As if it didn't receive little enough attention as it is!
dim field
SpC gets censored aswel as Alec. Toe
Literally have to google why each time
indigo knot
@white vessel Rhm is one of the best tier 8 tds .....but you need to know mechanics of the game ....and have peek a boom play.....
white vessel
Oh well i must be just too dumb to play it
indigo knot
If it gets any buff then the tank would be Op.....the camo on the tank is best at tier 8 and one of the best in games .....heat pen is awesome and accuracy is not that bad
dusky oxide
Who would ever use refined gun?
empty ice
TDs
white vessel
It was just a example what it is at best @dusky oxide
elfin marlin
Never used it on tds. I prefer faster aiming time. But since the 183 nerf I made for this one an exception
What level crew skills do you have
dusky oxide
@white vessel im not judging. Sorry for wording it like that
sudden pier
T69 needs a buff prove me wrong
coral nova
Nah I actually quite enjoyed that tank when I played it was pretty fun
unique scaffold
@sudden pier. Burden of proof is on you. Prove yourself right.
coral nova
I just hope wg comes out with s buff for vk.72 it's pure garbage. Called a super heavy and has so much armor but at the same time no armor 😂
sudden pier
@unique scaffold
Nah it's the 5th lowest winrate tank in blitz, and plus for some reason it's ammo rack is in the lower glacies
wraith lance
Maybe buff the AP pen a bit? Idk I think it's a decent tank
coral nova
Yeah I had a no problem with the 69 like I said was fun not great so but heat makes up for it
unique scaffold
Why would you show the lower plate of a American medium 🤦♂️
wraith lance
I think it has a low WR because it's more challenging to play, but unless the meta has completely changed I think it's good as is
shrewd kiln
I understand that the new germans und the WZ-110 give it a bit of a hard time with it's weak pen, but that ain't much of a problem for me. I just pick other targets [if those tanks aren't in a key position] and wait until I can shoot at them from the side or back.
atomic hound
@sudden pier low winrate does not directly indicate how good a tank is, look at the centurion 7/1, an absolutely amazing tank that also has a dreadful winrate, to give but a single example.
sudden pier
But anybody who's played the thing knows that power creep has rendered it extremely average at best(The T69)
atomic hound
Being average isn't an issue. Being overpowered or underpowered is an issue.
It'd be ridiculous if any tier 8 tank was buffed before the t28, too.
atomic hound
And wow... What is wg doing... Why is a t28 prot with an autoloader and that much mobility being put into the game...
unique scaffold
It hasn’t been released, and we know nothing about its armor and gun. You can’t tell it is broken yet
atomic hound
@unique scaffold true, but we all know wg very well by now, don't we...
Either way, I'm lost for words as to why it is as mobile as it is... I can hardly see them touching the armour, else why call it a t28 prototype?
unique scaffold
They made Chrysler K balanced. Trust me, there is hope
atomic hound
No, they didn't. That is a common misconception. Compare the Chrysler to the vk45.02 A, then come back to me, and try to make that argument. @unique scaffold
quick lichen
Chrysler k ruined the vk 45.02 a
unique scaffold
It was already ruined
quick lichen
Better in every way other than looks
Vk 45 a is a very good tank
But it’s now an is7
Pointless
atomic hound
Chrysler is better.
Well, the is7 DOES have a point (I'll see myself out...)
unique scaffold
VK 45 A was already power creeped. Chrysler can easily be penned from front and has M E H gun
cunning kindle
"easily", almost impenetrable hull down
indigo knot
Vk45 is not easy to play
unique scaffold
But you can ignore it because the gun is a big M E H @cunning kindle
atomic hound
So what. It's better than a tech tree tank in direct competition with it, which is my measure for overpowered. Just because it isn't as overwhelmingly broken as the wz-120-1g ft doesn't make it balanced.
cunning kindle
Its not that meh actually, only thing it struggles against is t9 heavies, others it can deal with ezily and, having just one "meh" isnt balanced
unique scaffold
Honestly, I was comparing it to other tier 8 prems because WG messed up with T8 tech tree tanks @atomic hound
atomic hound
Whether the VK is good or not is irrelevant. What stands is that the Chrysler is better.
@unique scaffold and there you made your mistake...
indigo knot
Chrysler k is very good medium killer just like 215b actually in my opinion
cunning kindle
Not calling it op but honestly most prems that r coming rn r better than tech tree tanks
atomic hound
Exactly, and that is what I hate. I hate it even more when people claim they're balanced, and by the sounds of things wg really pushed for this one to be seen as balanced after the huge pc version messup. Look at Meadsy's vid on it, he mentions that wg told him to say it was balanced, or words to that effect.
indigo knot
Only m4 rev is newly balanced premium that was introduced recently
unique scaffold
cunning kindle
^^ and ppl buy ravioli coz its kinda unique, also lorraine
unique scaffold
I love T-34-3, Just need a little speed buff
My wallet is prepared for next T-34-3 or M4A1 Ravioli sale
distant river
Yes some premium tanks are definitely broken cough wz 120 ft * cough* but some are just as bad. I think that most prems are slightly better than normal tanks, but also people dont know how to counter them, making them seem op @atomic hound
atomic hound
I'm a superuni, and I say they're op. (I'm not making out my opinion matters more than anyone else's, but your argument has fallen flat here)
Someone tell me the counter to the wz-120-1G FT, too. (Hint: there isn't one, the tank has functionally no weakness)
distant river
Some tanks are just impossible to counter. Others are super eaay to counter. Its about picking your fights and hoping you get a better chance to fight them
wraith lance
There are a lot of premium tanks that should be weaker, IS5, Helsing and Lowe come to mind
unique scaffold
IS-5 has big M E H gun which makes that you can ignore it if you’re fast enough or far away
distant river
@atomic hound an ru can counter it if its by itslelf, but its very difficult
wraith lance
Fair enough but I was refering more to the armor + speed combo
atomic hound
And yet it can't. The reverse speed is high enough to get to nearby hard objects quickly, and the traverse is ridiculous. I've tried, it doesn't work. Trying to CoD a wz driven by anyone other than a potato is suicide, and if it is a potato there are better ways to deal with it.
unique scaffold
The armor on IS-5 can be negated by anything taller than it or the mighty prammo spammers
distant river
All you need to do is to park behind it in a light @atomic hound , it cant reverse and youre fast enough to move with it
atomic hound
Getting behind it in the first place is the hard part, and it can still just drive away (very quickly) to some other hard cover to get you off. Virtually impossible, especially when driven by a competent player.
My advice to anyone is just to spam heat and stay away.
wraith lance
What ticks me off about the WZ is the spaced armor tbh
atomic hound
HE from big guns to the sides is a great way to brighten your day if you get the opportunity, too.
distant river
@atomic hound just leave it alone and run away then, and get the big guns to sort it out
lone warren
Its unlikely you’ll ever be able to park behind a wz ft unless its a as said above potato.
If you try to flank it, a good ft will just try to track you and even if they dont its traverse speed is so quick lmao.
Not to mention a reload under 8 secs without adrenaline means you’ll probably only get to shoot once or twice before he blasts you with that alpha.
Its a strong tank but then again so many players just sit infront it like they want to die lmao
A possible weakness is to exploit its side armour by not fighting it on one flank but then again thats coordination.. in a blitz pub match
And if you get a ft toon on the enemy team good luck 🤔
atomic hound
Easy enough to say, until you realise it's fast enough to outrun or keep pace with almost every tank at the tier. @distant river
Half of the reason the armour is so good is that it's so quickly that nothing stays grey...
distant river
Just stick with your team and overwhelm it then @atomic hound
lone warren
Its only downsides are its side armour , which it can hide anyway with that traverse speed. Its health, which is more of a significant downside in tier nine matches, especially if you’re stuck going against a DPM td.
It gd is pretty bad too though idk the exact figure
atomic hound
I'm annoyed enough by its existence to try to deliberately ruin the game of any of them on the enemy team (sometimes to my own detriment)
distant river
Anyway the wzs are relatively rare in most battles, so you dont have to worrg about it
atomic hound
They used to be. Not so much anymore, with the Christmas thing and these latest crates.
lone warren
I just find it funny how i can beat jags and tortoises simply because the ft has so much mobility you can keep effectively circling.. in a turretless td 🤔 understandable
atomic hound
It's like a Foch 1 tier down, without the viewfinder, with more mobility, and a better tier for tier gun.
lone warren
A lot of the time I see meds look at me while im driving with them. I just know they’re confused how a td with that caliber gun is keeping pace with them lmao
wraith lance
Damn thing has the same reload as a Type 59 lmao
sudden pier
@atomic hound
The Chrysler K is balanced compared to other tier 8 heavies
The 45.02 A is just well average. The tiger ll and VK100.01P are better choices
lone warren
With provisions and everything my ft reloads in a little under 8 seconds. With adrenaline it’s ridiculous
coral nova
@atomic hound personally m8 I hardly ever encounter good wz 120 gft players yes they r a good tank but really I have no problems ever dealing with them I mean I usually am in t34 or scorpion and I feel I influence the battle way more than that thing does most of the time I feel they r only op if super good players r in them and that goes for every tank really...
lone warren
You dont need to be super good to do good in an ft. Its such a strong tank.
You probably have not much problems because a T34 can counter that tank so hard.
atomic hound
@coral nova sadly, you're wrong. As a good player, my value to the team is usually the highest of the entire team (not always, but mostly.) A good player is less likely to do what a number of (usually average, the really bad players are too terrible even for this) just fixate themselves on one tank, and YOLO it. If a wz player, even a bad one, decides that they want to kill ME... Well. At the very best I'm gonna take damage, and depending on what tank I'm in or how much hp I had left, and whether I have immediate support, I could very well die, often throwing the match. This is why I hate the tank. It's most dangerous in the hands of a good player, but still devastating in the hands of an average or below average player. Players in-between are oddly less dangerous.
sudden pier
Agreed, the tanks obviously broken
indigo knot
I hope the premium tank that American autoloading TD will be sold in future would be balanced not game breaking
dusky oxide
wz-120-1g ft is tier 8.5
indigo knot
Yup....
dusky oxide
I believe that TDs are the new meta. Heavies are washed up. That is if there wont be a 2 td limit soon.
We'll even have a t-28 prot. Defender soon.
distant river
I think a 2 TD limit would work quite well, because many tier 10/9 battles with more just turn into a "see who has the highest alpha and the luckiest shot" competition
dusky oxide
And the dumbest meds/ impatient heavies
distant river
Yep pretty much
dusky oxide
Every time i get that kind of a match or eg. encounter some e75 'sniper' hillsitters i leave to go learn russian in duolingo. Its been very productive.
coral nova
@atomic hound so dismissive man no u r wrong lol if he decides he wants to kill u I'll take that everyday getting a dangerous tank out of the game is no problem for one or two shots back maybe even none cuz it has so low hp most tanks can 2-3 shot it also u could say any tank that wants to yolo u has the chance to damage u or kill u that's just a fact and to say it's more likely for that sepacific tank to be better is garbage there r plenty of tanks that can do that to the same to degree if not better at tier 8. Plus I rather have him yolo and die in two shots then camp all game and do 2-3k
Idk I personally don't mind the tds I mean it sucks some times when u make a mistake and punish u but it's so predictable on every map where they are u can just avoid it or go Into a position they can't pen u simple as that
dusky oxide
It might be predictable but its not avoidable. You cant just give people the ability to close off an entire area of a map. Its too restrictive. Its not "simple as that", i play a med properly.
@coral nova nice 10 row run-on sentence of a response to @atomic hound
unique scaffold
@coral nova. I seriously have no idea what you were trying to say there. You do realize that this is the English server... right?
coral nova
Wow m8 luv the disrespect around here all I was saying is the the wz isn't really that op for a tank to be op I think of it as nub friendly and well the wz isn't in my opinion becuz well u have to have some kind of Brain to play it and have some knowledge of the game
@unique scaffold maybe u need to learn some English was pretty clear to me?
dusky oxide
@coral nova no hate, could you at least read before you post something. Its kinda annoying when you need to decipher a wall of text with no cohesion. Discord is messy enough as is.
unique scaffold
@coral nova and I'm sure the crazy homeless man who rambles incoherently at passersby thinks his ramblings are perfectly coherent as well 🤣
coral nova
Wow okay ill just won't say much from now on okay then Happy?
dusky oxide
@coral nova we arent saying you do or dont need to say something. We are simply stating that when you say something, put some mind into writing it as well. Its ok if youre young and dont have that much experience. We all were once. You had an idea but its hard for us to understand it from that :D
coral nova
Okay maybe my first message was a bit ranty but I'm not sure how u can't understand the second also there was no need for those comments Oof
dusky oxide
@coral nova i wouldnt have shared my opinion about the matter if i hadnt understood it. It was fine. At least i didnt call u a hobo ;)
coral nova
Ik but apparently this other dude did idk
unique scaffold
To be clear I wasn't calling you a Hobo. I was saying that everyone thinks they are speaking clearly until they are told otherwise. It is up to them to remedy it at that point.
I enjoy using analogies to make a point. Nothing personal.
atomic hound
@coral nova trying some punctuation might help...
Anyway, I don't give a .... If a wz camps and does 2-3k if he isn't wrecking me. You managed to completely miss my point. The wz is only one tank out of seven, and is therefore absolutely not worth my life, or indeed many (if any) of my hit points. What I don't like is that that tank more than any other tank in the tier, if the driver is determined to kill you, will do, or will inflict a lot of damage trying.
unique scaffold
WZ is OP stop talking about it
When there are players averaging 3k in it you know somethings wrong
dusky oxide
When a tank is so op you dont even need to discuss it because so few people dispute it... Its not the first time
fringe briar
there are players averaging 3k in a lot of tanks
twilit crystal
not in tier 8? I averaged 2450 in my 50 100 which is considered great but even that tank had limitations
fringe briar
Okay you’re right about that. I checked the stats of a dude in my clan who is insane. He only has 1 tank at at 8 with a 3k avg dmg and it’s an rhm
jovial kernel
too many tanks in tier 8 in general need buffs
It's pretty sad when there's a tier I consider less balanced than 7
cunning vapor
Lets balance tier 8. Add another defender.
jovial kernel
kek
fringe briar
tier 8 is the new tier 7, and it looks like tier 10 will be the new tier 8 in due course
jovial kernel
WG seems relatively fine with keeping tier 10 free of broken tanks. Anyways, my thoughts on the new T28 Defender are over in #502009251787440139 if you want to read them
fringe briar
the T22 is incredibly OP, I wouldn't be surprised it gets nerfed, and I have one
jovial kernel
I think the E 50M is probably more OP than the T-22 if I'm honest
fringe briar
it isn't, ive never gotten 4k bounced dmg in an e50, the e50 is a hassle to deal with but I don't think it's OP
jovial kernel
the T-22 just has a gun that isn't great with 240 pen APCR as standard though
fringe briar
i use calibrated shells, only increases the reload like .4 or .5 seconds
jovial kernel
but compared to the gun of the T-62A which is just superior, and the AP slinging gun of the Obj. 140, it somewhat falls flat. And the E 50M's gun certainly isn't imprecise, and that has rather decent DPM with some nice penetration
unique scaffold
Nerf wz 120-1 ft
coarse harness
God help us...
jovial kernel
gg calling for T-34-2 nerf ultra kek
atomic hound
And even worse, the t34-3... The high tier Chinese tanks are average at best, until you get the 113, and the 121 isn't dreadful anymore either, but definitely not overpowered
jovial kernel
yeah I have no words for the advanced tier stupid contained in that comment lol
fiery cairn
Still waiting for WG to buff the spi c
quiet ledge
T-34-2 actually has shitty armour, why are you complaining?
unique scaffold
@quiet ledge. You've been here long enough to know the rules on cursing...
stone arch
I believe he edited it
sudden pier
Oof
indigo knot
They said that sp1c is fine in forums recently when DMG asked Ribblestripe
fiery cairn
It’s not though
dusky oxide
Such a cuckold tank. I'd never play it in fear of everyone ramming me.
fiery cairn
WG should add gun recoil
lunar niche
I only see SP1C as a ramming target.
fiery cairn
And a HE magnet
jade cargoBOT
HUGLA456#0564 was muted
low loom
T-34-3 is a fun tank, especially when mad games rolls around
exotic pelican
^^^
quiet ledge
@unique scaffold I'm sorry
unique scaffold
@unique scaffold ^^he is sorry
Do me a favor and don't ping me for stupid reasons . You get that proof yet? @unique scaffold
@unique scaffold ok i wont
dusky oxide
Is t34-3 really good? I find it not as derpy as it looks but i'd just rather play a wz120-1ft. It can do everyhting but better
unique scaffold
Not yet pls hold I still need the ss buddy
atomic hound
@dusky oxide it's bad, but fun.
formal forge
Does the t-43 gun sucks or it is good?
jovial kernel
@dusky oxide it aims really fast and is probably one of the best peek a boom in tier 8 but it's pretty bad
dusky oxide
Its fun but also frusturating when you realize you cant save a team with that dpm. I still like the gun more than the 100mm on the type
formal forge
Do i got answer on me question? I dunno i love the dpm but pen is horreble
jovial kernel
I mean if you want dpm and pen play the Panther
jovial kernel
it's fun but not a great tank if I'm honest
formal forge
Waw what i absolute hate about that tank is when i want kill an low hp enemy it will misses no pen
But it is an ok tank
unique scaffold
I picked E25 with my last collectors gold, and I don't regret it. Very fun and practically you can use it for everything, it runs fast and deals good damage. I'd also say it improves your skill with other tanks, since the low alpha and no armor force you to think well to the next course of action. It's good
jovial kernel
People need to stop crying about the VK 100 armor. If anything, I say nerf the track traverse by 5 degrees/s and nerf the gun depression to 6 degrees instead
unique scaffold
I don't have a problem with VK100, it's easy to flank and I can often kill it quickly from behind, with almost any tank, except SU-122-44 and a couple other tanks, due to low velocity of the shot and penetration
jovial kernel
The tank is relatively well balanced but with how meta changing it is it needs to be toned back a little. It also just turns too fast for what it is imo
wraith lance
People struggle with the VK 100 because it's the first proper super heavy on tier VIII.
exotic pelican
KV-5 is proper super heavy, change my mind
unique scaffold
@astral plank. MM has nothing to do with this balance discussion
wraith lance
KV4 and KV5 are also super heavies but they have easily exploitable frontal weakspots
exotic pelican
But the speed KV-5 can produce for something 100.18 tons
wraith lance
@exotic pelican As I said it doesn't have proper super heavy armor
astral plank
@unique scaffold why??? Are u kidding me, most of the people who have left the game, have left because of the MM and the noobs... In my opinion there is really really bad tutorial and bad MM as well, I showed about the MM those photos now I will prove the bad tutorial:
exotic pelican
KV-5 stronk tenk
wraith lance
A proper tutorial is useless if the playerbase isn't willing to learn. And being honest, most bad players aren't willing to do so.
unique scaffold
@astral plank 🤣 "most people".
This isn't the MM or tutorial discussion thread. It is the balance discussion thread. Read the pinned messages here. We've all been all alone as bottom tier. Hike up your manties and carry harder.
astral plank
I know it's not a good screenshot, but if you look really close, you will see a T-62A camping with a TD and a T57 Heavy
slim rivet
T62 and t57 best snipers
astral plank
@unique scaffold no, I mean from those who have left the game, most of those, the reason who have left it is because of the MM and the tutorial
unique scaffold
Both of which do not pertain to this section.
slim rivet
Are speaking on behalf of 100 of them or 99? In the latter case I would agree with u @astral plank
astral plank
look for example 50 leave the game, 40 of them they left the game because of that
slim rivet
So 80 %. Seems accurate
unique scaffold
@astral plank. Read the pinned messages. You are massively off topic.
slim rivet
To stay on topic, I would say centurion (tier 8) needs a buff
unique scaffold
I'd say most tier VIII meds need a buff
slim rivet
Hum. T44 and it’s brothers are OK. Sta as well. Something could be made for panther 2 tho
astral plank
@slim rivet yeah 70-80% seems to be accurate @unique scaffold ok I leave, I just wrote the last sentence, sorry for annoying you, please tell me where could I speak about this topic?
unique scaffold
slim rivet
Not to mention fcm50t 😱
exotic pelican
FCM 50 t one of my favorites
proven helm
The t44-100 does leave more to be desired
crystal spoke
Ive found the 50t is good but not put standing compared to the cdc
exotic pelican
has the FCM 50 t ever changed since it first came out (not including equipment)
slim rivet
Don’t think so...
astral plank
fcm 50 t, has trollish gun mantlet, nerf the armour there and buff the frontal hull armour
exotic pelican
you can't nerf the armor, WG can't nerf premium tanks (unless they collector it)
crystal spoke
I wouldn't say its trollish and its gimmick is no armour but really fast and decent gun
exotic pelican
the turret is awkward target to shoot
proven helm
Isnt it also like one of the heaviest mediums at tier 8 or something like that?
astral plank
@crystal spoke I hit the gun mantlet with HEAT from a WT auf Pz4, and no pen... nerf that please
exotic pelican
@astral plank 1. you got unlucky, 2. it's a premium tank, what are they gonna do?
unique scaffold
Why would you shoot the gun mantlet?
astral plank
@unique scaffold he was hull down and too short cupola/commander's hatch
crystal spoke
It was probably because the angle and literally shoot anywhere else
quick lichen
@astral plank read the pinned messages
proven helm
It rams good tho cuz its heavy for a medium
exotic pelican
it's literally a heavy tank on PC
proven helm
I love the Lorraine 40t more personally lol
crystal spoke
@proven helm it is pretty good at that but so is its counterpart
astral plank
@proven helm I hate lorrain40t, too easy to HE that tank...
proven helm
The frenchies are not all ment to be the front most forces, they are better suited to be second line or third. They shouldent be used as a brawler like the germans or russians. So getting he penned by a german td is your fault for being there. French armor best works when they are not the center of attention.
exotic pelican
Revalorise can hull down and has a pretty good turret
astral plank
and please buff the frontal turret armour of the AMX 40, too easy to pen, although that red highlight I even pen that with HE from a WT
@unique scaffold this discussion about tanks should't we write in #vehicles-discussion ???
unique scaffold
@proven helm. Lorraine is a great tank.
I don't think it needs anything. That 4 shot autoloader is jus perfect.
rancid flame
I like the Lorraine, but I personally only run it in platoon because that’s where I do best with it
exotic pelican
@astral plank AMX 40 as in the duck or you trying to say Lorraine 40t?
astral plank
@unique scaffold I disagree with your opinion, as I don't think the "ok" gun depression is that good and bad pen is so balancing for the tank. Moreover people enjoyed HEing me all the time... (I played it in a friend's account, that's how I know about depression and pen) @exotic pelican I mean the AMX 40, tier 9 medium french tank
rancid flame
Tier 8 you mean?
astral plank
@rancid flame omg, I mean the french premium tier 9 medium tank AMX 30 , search it...
rancid flame
There is the AMX 30 that is a medium
unique scaffold
The balancing factor for the 40T is that it takes a brain to play well. The average player is going to get wrecked in it. If you know how to use the clip effectively it is a powerhouse.
rancid flame
How do you get HE’d in an AMX 30?
unique scaffold
@astral plank that is the AMX 30 er1 prot. Try again
astral plank
yes sorry @rancid flame nooo I mean the lorraine, but amx 30, easy HE from the sides and in frontal turret armour
rancid flame
From the rear and sides maybe, but certainly not frontally unless they are using HESH
astral plank
AND in frontal turret armour (in cupola)
rancid flame
Sure, but that thing is pretty small. As long as you’re not sitting there thinking you’re invulnerable nobody is gonna hit it, especially not with low-velocity shells like HE
The 30 1er Prot. is an absolutely fantastic tank, it’s basically a tier 9 STB with a better turret
unique scaffold
Exactly. The AMX 30 er1 is just about perfect as far as tier 9 mediums go
astral plank
I HE so easy the cupolas, foch's cupolas, so eeezzz
rancid flame
Foch is a different tank entirely, the hell are you even taking about anymore?
astral plank
best tier 9 medium tank: T-54, 2nd perfect tier 9 med tank: E-50...
unique scaffold
7/1 could use a slight speed boost
rancid flame
Overall in stats I’m pretty sure the 30 1er actually outperforms both of those tanks
astral plank
@rancid flame I mean it's as easy to pen the foch as easy to pen the AMX 30 (sorry for bad english)
rancid flame
No...the Foch has 2 cupolas for one. The cupola on the prot is smaller than either of them, it sticks off to the side more than up which makes it just fine hull-down, and parts of it are angled in ways that can get you bounces.
astral plank
whatever u say, I can easily handle 2 ready ~1000 dmg in both tanks by hitting the cupolas with HE -try it, u will love it-
rancid flame
You’ve got better RNG than me then m8
astral plank
I hit the other cupola as well although its so small... I HAVE THE BEST RNG
rancid flame
Are you running the 7/1?
astral plank
yes, and its awful, I cant sidescrape, I have so bad hull down, everyone can pen me in the turret, I hate it
rancid flame
I love my Cent. Do you wiggle when ur hull-down or do you just sit there? I’ve never had a problem with my Cent hull-down. And you actually can sidescrape, but only out to 15 degrees which is relatively shallow
Sorry, got my first degrees wrong, it’s 15 not 20
astral plank
omg, send a very good replay or build an electronic protractor for wot blitz please
rancid flame
Aight, I’ll send you a replay, excuse me while I go get one
astral plank
ok no problem...
unique scaffold
7/1 is outstanding. I just think it could be a smidge faster.
rancid flame
I mean, it would be good if it was, but I like it the way it is because nubs stay out of it for the most part
wraith lance
45km/h wouldn't hurt tbh
unique scaffold
True. I think the brit med line loses a lot of players at tier 8.
astral plank
when Sheridan in Blitz?
rancid flame
Not for a very long time in all likelihood, at the very least not this year
indigo tinsel
This shot doesnt pen... like how. T30 AP through side and tracks just eat it. This has happened to me so many times, even when shooting light tanks. Like what the heck.
quick lichen
@indigo tinsel welcome to #539857122113093632
indigo tinsel
@quick lichen what do you mean
empty ice
That's what you get for not shooting gold ammo
storm light
hes in a t30....
rain ivy
He had bad aim, always go for the drive wheels
unique scaffold
I must say 1 thing and nobody will disagree with me that IS-8 need an front armor buff
It is so bad that a tier 7 IS got better armor that it a T-54 is more likely to bounce a front AP shot that this crap tank
rustic fossil
@exotic pelican The FCM50 has received an armor buff, if I remember correctly.
unique scaffold
I wish Wargaming tried to listen to the community and buff is-8 a bit
exotic pelican
when, I have never seen FCM 50 t get a buff for the 4 years I've been playing
wraith lance
Turret armor buff I think
teal olive
@unique scaffold welcome to world of tanks, buddy. Gl trying to get them to listen
grand dirge
.
visual nimbus
I feel the M46 actually needs turret armor... just look at how it’s turret is angled too..still nothing in terms of armor
deft owl
@visual nimbus M46 patton has the highest winrate among tier 9 meds. Clearly does not need any buffs.
unique scaffold
Yeah I really don't feel like the 46 Patton needs anything extra
solar lark
“Critical Hit”
indigo knot
I had problems when playing tier 10 games with M46 Patton ....the pen was pants
unique scaffold
I enjoyed the 46 Patton. It was mobile enough and had good enough gun depression to be a great flanker / ridge fighter.
dusky oxide
@unique scaffold is8 is middle of the pack when it comes to avg dmg and wr. Wg wont buff it. And what comes to the front armor, its not the main feature of the tank so it shouldnt be relied on to succeed anyway.
shy wren
^^^
Should be played as a pseudo-medium or hulldown
atomic hound
Dear god the defender is on supertest...
shy wren
Hope they can balance it.
Defender was that OP as it faced tier Xs as well.
atomic hound
Why would they want to do that? It'll make them less money. Don't forget that this is a tank with a pike stronger, far stronger than an is7, allowing angling of the tank unlike any tank in the game (the pike is just that strong) to the point where at the optimal angle the lower plate has over 250mm of effective armour.
shy wren
Don’t ask me. This was WoT PC’s dev’s problem.
Hope that the Blitz devs retweak them to more acceptable levels, so that tier VIIs HTs have at least a chance to defeat it
atomic hound
If they give it a suitably weak lower plate and don't overdo the gun (which will have 460 alpha) than it'll be balanced, but I don't think this is going to happen.
dusky oxide
How could they balance it? Its bound to have armor, mobility and big alpha. So a 45% can easily get good results in it since they only need to get a couple shots in and the armor is good enough to keep them alive for 3mins. Mobility is for rushing, but in no way for disengaging or smart use of the map.
atomic hound
Good luck folks...
shy wren
I could see that the nerfs would be a lower plate weakspot to 120-100mm, while the upper plate would be 110-100mm
atomic hound
Let's hope so.
dusky oxide
Its not like tier 8 was going to make it anyway. Id say i was going to enjoy watching it with popcorn in tier 9 but there already is a tank in t8 that can directly compete with tier 9s.
120-100mm weakspot btw :DD
shy wren
As if you face the tank head on, the upper glacis plate is already an autobounce zone. Lower plate could be controlled by having IS-3/IS-5 levels of effective armor on their lower plate @atomic hound
@dusky oxide it’s sloped, so that armor is much better than 100-120mm
dusky oxide
That too xdd ^ a fun and healthy 250mm relative
atomic hound
It should be weaker than the is5 and is3. This tank is still very mobile, and has a bigger gun, why give it flat out ridiculous armour too. Don't forget that that pike is so ridiculous that you can sidescrape with invulnerability
Look carefully at the angle I showed, you can pull back without showing the lower plate at all at that angle and the pike is still over 300mm effective.
shy wren
Yep. With the proposed 100mm of upper glacis armor, that tank will have to rely on autobounces to keep itself alive.
dusky oxide
To take away the purpose of thinking. Tier 8 means 80iq.
formal forge
Jeez t-44 is bad REALY bad it has poor armor and an tier 7 gun u kidding me?
shy wren
As if it overangles, the 252U would only have 212mm of effective thickness at that angle with 100mm of armor @atomic hound
atomic hound
That is better, sure. There is almost zero chance of this happening though, forget it.
shy wren
We’ll just have to wait and see. If they implement it correctly, there is nothing to worry about
indigo knot
If they make it game breaking then i guess many are gonna stop playing this game....
unique scaffold
This feels like the whole Chrysler K thing again. Everyone was up in arms over a OP tank from PC being brought over from Blitz. In the end it wasn't a big deal. Let's just wait and see how it pans out before lighting our torches and sharpening our pitchforks.
indigo knot
Yaa ....But the tank is Russian ....you know what I mean
atomic hound
@unique scaffold except the Chrysler WAS an issue, it's just that A) it wasn't as much of one as in the pc version, and B) was very successfully downplayed by wg.
Compare it to the vk45.02 A, it is flat out a much better tank.
The VK gets a very slightly better gun in exchange for massively less armour, less mobility, and worse overall gun depression (more at the front, less everywhere else)
The whole argument that the Chrysler having an actually pennable lower plate = balance is frankly ridiculous. That just stops it being on a similar level to the wz-120-1g ft. it annoys me especially when most tanks at tier 8 see this when they look at a vk (at its best angle, too.)
lunar niche
They'll probably nerf the LFP. UFP is autobounce even for tier X TD. Turret already has 2 small 'weakspot'.
shy wren
At least the lower plate is huge on the Chrysler. The Wz just has too much frontal armor.
But yeah, the Vk 45.02 A could use some love, like a mobility buff
atomic hound
@shy wren not as huge as the entire front and turret of the VK.
shy wren
Yeah, that’s true. Wish the 45.02 played a more proper pseudo heavy role, but with that mobility, it’s just a dream
atomic hound
For the Chrysler to have more mobility as well as more armour is simply obscene.
And I swear I'll never forget their marketing of 'only 110mm of side armour' yeah, nice try wg. The vk45.02B WISHES it had 'only' that.
A blatant attempt to downplay the tank to avoid a similar community reaction to the pc version
jovial kernel
yeah that's almost as much as the VK's front lol
literally nearing VK 100 levels of side armor and it has better power to weight than many many mediums
(not after terrain resistance tho)
atomic hound
Mobility is still better than the majority of tier 8 heavies, who cares.
It sidescrapes better than the tank the tier above that can't do anything BUT sidescrape for god's sake... Forget penning the turret front like you can on the vk45.02b, the Chrysler has the same rear mount, more mobility to set up and take shots faster, and more side armour. Seems legit.
junior tulip
@atomic hound those are the PC stats, not all tanks are the same in pc ad blitz. Just look at Chrysler K
rancid flame
@junior tulip lol, sure. In Blitz the Chrysler K is both faster and more well armored than the PC variant
The only nerfed aspect of the Chrysler K from PC to Blitz was its premium ammo and gun damage which functions differently in both games anyhow
smoky yoke
Speed and armor is way different
rancid flame
@smoky yoke the point was, if you read it, that sure, they may change aspects of the tank, but that does not mean for the better, or the right ones
smoky yoke
Someone deleted their comment
Wait no , nevermind. I'd say the armor was nerfed too ,comparable to pc. Where tier 9 and 10s had trouble penning underplate at times
rancid flame
@smoky yoke yup, lower plate was nerfed hard between the games (40mm)
dusky oxide
Playing a med at tier 10 is a massive cucking experience. Full of tds sitting in a corner and is4s bouncing around shells left right and center.
Playing at tier 8 is a dumbing down experience. Meds dont have dpm, but they also dont have the alpha that heavies have. Its just a slugfest.
Tier 9 is highs and lows. Very balanced on its own but you end up getting destroyed by the same 3 tier x tds and other guns that are too big and too many for this game.
Why are we still here? Im here to wait for a better meta.
jade cargoBOT
Rhansu#9670 was muted
rancid flame
@smoky yoke here, I went around checking all the tier 8 IS tanks between PC, Console, and Blitz, and I've come up with a rough idea on what kind of state they'll release the 252U into blitz as
Xes are things that'll be thrown out in their entirety, ? marks are for things whose changes are up in the air where some things will change, some things might not, etc.
smoky yoke
Interesting
dusky oxide
@rancid flame does the turret have a weak roof?
rancid flame
@dusky oxide yup, weak forehead same as the IS-6
dusky oxide
Oh, something i really wanted to ask you, do you think theyll lower the alpha @rancid flame
versed fable
tiger 2 cries in the corner
rancid flame
@dusky oxide absolutely they will. In PC it does tier 9 alpha, but in Blitz they will absolutely lower that down to the 400 even alpha. Alpha and HP on PC are both higher, and I doubt they’ll keep the tier 9 gun dmg since they didn’t do that with the Ravioli
quick lichen
Pc and console alpha on the 252 is 440
dusky oxide
Thats reassuring.
quick lichen
In line with the is-4
So it should be 420
But since every 120 and 122 in tier 8 other than the is6 and is3 have 4.47 rof and 400 alpha, I bet they make it the same
rancid flame
It should, but again the Ravioli should have higher alpha as well
quick lichen
It’s a shame because the 121 and 113 should get 420 alpha
M4 should get 350
Bat chats should hit for 350
rancid flame
^^^^^ this so much this. The way they scale gun dmg in blitz is weird at best, retarded for the most part
twilit crystal
batchat should get 1400 clip potential or bust. Otherwise the new czech line doesnt have a niche
rancid flame
Eh, the Czech line has a niche via the fact it can’t be HE’d from the front. It’ll likely have good pen as well
obsidian osprey
All the 105s get the same alpha at tier 8 though; it’s not like the m4a1 is being uniquely slighted. Blitz just has less fiddling with alpha relative to caliber compared to PC, for better or worse
rancid flame
@obsidian osprey well the reason it should have that higher alpha for one is that it should have a tier 10 gun as that gun was a modern 105, and its unique feature was that it had high alpha for a 105. Blitz just made it boring
stone arch
I mean caliber doesn't really matter IRL. If could be a 75mm gun with a lot of explosive mass vs 122 full AP shell and if both pen the APHE would do more damage most likely
twilit crystal
uh the batchat tier ten can't really be HE'ed from the front either
rancid flame
And IRL tanks don’t have hit points
stone arch
Yes it can lol
And true Lol
twin egret
irl tanks can have Hit points, the amount of shells that have entered the tank
rancid flame
Lol
jovial kernel
Tanks irl have hit points just no one can see them and the shells do massively different alpha based on where they hit
stone arch
^
sick badger
visual plover
Hi
white vessel
The Czech tanks have waay faster interclipreloads, 1.5s on PC
dusky oxide
Why does e50m do so well?
lone warren
Its a mobile medium that allows it to be a monster at ramming whilst being well armoured.
obsidian osprey
They buffed the crap out of it lol
shy wren
Basically a Jack of All Trades. Good at everything, but doesn’t excel in any of them, well, except for ramming
dusky oxide
Do u think the gun depression buff was too much?
shy wren
Over the front?
Probably, probably not...
But would like to get a hold on the tank, if not for that Vk 30.02 M being converted to Collector Status
indigo knot
E50M has good currently not Over buffed .....It finally got got what it needed
Currently only Is4 and T22 med are OP at tier 10 ....thats acc to me ..... nerfing 5-10mm armour on Is4 would be ok.....but about T22 idk what was WG thinking before making a tank that has best Turret very good side armour massive dpm and troll frontal armour .....
deft owl
Hell yeah we are getting obj 252u. Good bye nonexistent balance we will miss you.
iron lynx
Bye bye Balanced Tier VIII battles
distant river
You think they were balenced before?
spring pelican
@deft owl that is only way to balance WZ 120 1 FT
shy wren
Wonder if they’re gonna make the whole frontal plate 100mm thick?
smoky yoke
Don't claim no balance till you see the stats. Everyone said the same for chrysler,I Chrysler bought it, got my avg 70% winrate and so pennable >.<
iron lynx
Chrysler will be a better tier 9 than the VK 45.02B if not for the gun.
shy wren
130 upper glacis bounces everything,
140 lower glacis super tough for tier VII HTs
deft owl
@spring pelican Introducing another op tank does not balance another op tank.
unique scaffold
Meh. It is what it is. The balancing factor is that it will most likely be driven by total nubs... just like most tanks.
smoky yoke
Blitz is way different from PC version if any of blitz tanks goes into PC it would be over powered. Hint tech tree tanks
deft owl
@unique scaffold And Unicums will dominate with it. I cant see how you see it as a balancing factor.
unique scaffold
Unicums are rare and will dominate in most tanks. Hard to balance skill.
@smoky yoke what? Most blitz tanks are nerfed from their PC stats.
spring pelican
@deft owl it does
deft owl
So wz-120-1g Ft is balanced because noobs suck with it? LMAO.
iron lynx
Oh my, balancing OP premium tanks by introducing even more OP premium tanks.
As if tech tree tanks aren't powercreeped enough, except for a selected few.
unique scaffold
My point being that a tank doesn't define the player. A good player will out play a bad player despite the tanks they are driving. I'm not going to lose sleep over possible balance issues because I know at the end of the day most players absolutely suck in nearly every tank they drive.
iron lynx
And I wonder what tank will fill the tourney teams when the Object 252 U comes…
deft owl
Then this section isnt for you since bad players will always play bad regardless of the tank. This CANNOT considered as a balancing factor.
unique scaffold
If you get outplayed by a unicum driving a percieved OP premium tank chances are you'll be outplayed by that same unicum in a tech tree tank.
Complaining about the balance of a tank before it is even introduced is about as productive as punching sand.
shy wren
Just want to say: Obj. 252U’s pike is easily an autobounce zone, even without gun depression
distant river
Its a bit like shooting a lowes upper plate when its using its depression
deft owl
I dont think I will outplayed with su-101 as same as Wz-120-1g Ft.
And Im right to complain about it because i know it will be op.
unique scaffold
Feel free. To each their own 🤷♂️