tank-balance-discussion

[hasty sluice]

I wouldn’t mind playing only tier 1-3 for a week, but the fact that the game is broken only at lower tiers doesn’t mean it doesn’t matter

[uneven turtle]

Sorry, career is just the term most of the more informed playerbase use when talking about their battle count from beginning to their current stage

[hasty sluice]

more informed? what are ? you better then other people? you a big ego person?

[uneven turtle]

I mean, it’s the most convenient way of saying it though?

You wouldn’t expect someone to say “in my entire playthrough of blitz” when talking about their playtime or anything related to how long they’ve been playing?

[hasty sluice]

Damn brotha… Lets end this debate

[uneven turtle]

Besides, complaints about fictional/nonfictional ideologies have always been shrugged off by a very large portion of the playerbase

Also you said it yourself best

Sci fi tanks and fictional tanks have their own unique points, at the end of the day it’s just a game

[hasty sluice]

yes, they just shouldn’t replace the tanks the game had been about since the start

[uneven turtle]

It wouldn’t say it’s a replacement, but more so just additions

Annihilator for example, very stupid tank yes I agree. But there’s no other tank that has any feel that is even remotely close to it, except maybe the helsing, so it’s not really replacing anything og

[marble willow]

What the chud. I didnt even know that

[remote pawn]

🛏️

[marble willow]

^

[remote pawn]

Yes you 💔

[hasty sluice]

IS vs Annihilator = Annihilator wins 80% of the time, thats not an addition, thats a replacement. Tiger 1 vs IS Now thats a more like it. 60/40% odds, thats an addition

[hasty sluice]

are we clear?

[uneven turtle]

I thought of replacement as in something playing the same way or feels the same way as another tank but better in every aspect

I didn’t know your definition of replacement was that blunt

[hasty sluice]

Annihilator is a tank that has a very similar play style compared to IS. Alpha damage, is the main strength of the vehicle

If the IS had better gun depression and did 500 dmg per shot, it would be an addition all the sudden

[uneven turtle]

I don’t follow you anymore🙂

[hasty sluice]

Play style is one thing, tank output potential that is miles beyond its own league is something else.

Th difference between what Anni can do and what IS can do Is like comparing a tier 1 with a tier 3

So why not put Anni in tier VIII or IX ?

[shy nymph]

Mle is one of the worst tanks I've ever seen, honestly

This version of him is ridiculously weak

[paper venture]

Why wargaming balanced tvp 50?

[deft echo]

add bergepanther

[dire cradle]

Yes, Annie is stupid, but I love her just the way she is…in T7. Just continue to balance mm by placing an Annie on other team or placing in bottom tier.

[terse cairn]

Which one?

[timber flume]

Aye is the ammo in the same spot in the obj 268 like on war thunder?

[marble willow]

no

[timber flume]

So much for immersive gameplay

[marble willow]

Da

[ionic dust]

The tank at the event looks a lot like a Leopard 2A4.

[buoyant shoal]

yea

[viscid kelp]

I suggest we should create more legendary camo for tier8-tier10 tanks

[muted rampart]

? We get a new T8 lege camo each month and like 3-4 more for T8/9/10 tanks each update.

It's more than enough

[timber flume]

<@&481447501690568709>

[primal yacht]

✅ jura_1122 was banned.

✅ jura_1122 was banned.

[remote pawn]

Banned twice at once 😭

[glad flower]

To be sure

[timber flume]

Best lodestar I've summoned online

[viscid kelp]

Most of it come from premium battle pass. To be fair, they should make some legend skins that could be bought in the store

[fading thorn]

prowler is very bad tank and you are ready for this disscussion
my gunner got crit by HE of LTTB
he has no armor , its just second chimera but with more hp and consumables

[muted rampart]

Only monthly T8 legendary camo comes in the battle pass.

All others aside event exclusive ones can be straight up bought for gold

[muted rampart]

Wdym? Chimera is like one of the best T8 meds on the game.

Prowler is not that good, but it's still a solid tank. One HE splash means nothing.

[fading thorn]

chimera is best because he is med tank , but prowler is ht , in all HE splash is just example , every time he getting crits by every shoot

[muted rampart]

How does that matter exactly?

Prowler may be a heavy, but it's only heavy in name, it goes 47kph, it's pretty much a medium level mobility. When paired with very accurate 420 alpha gun and heavy tank HP it results in a very decent combination.

The only downsides it has are gun depression, on the move accuracy and armor, but it doesn't make it bad.

Had it been any better in any of those areas, we would end up with 53TP levels of stupidity.

[timber flume]

Ah so another medium thats pretending to be a heavy... Noted

[fading thorn]

this is very important cuz you getting spawned on ht spawn , but you cant even fight normally with other ht (no armor and no accuracy) , theres so sense in prowler because we already have chimera which much better , whats the point of this speed if it matter only because i need to go help meds
he should be medium tank or just get buff

armor is better than speed in this game

[muted rampart]

Well 47 is still slower than most meds, but it can outpace pretty much all heavies besides 53TP.

It is a very deadly combination with the alpha it has and HP will allow it to win pretty much all direct encounters with meds.

[timber flume]

If I got it my play style would be the same as the AMX 50B

[muted rampart]

The hell you talking about? This tank has 0.29 accuracy, that's pretty much laser accurate. Sure, dispersion on the move is bad, but we are talking about a 420 alpha tank here, compared to stuff like soviet/chinese heavies it's a godly accuracy.

And no, with a 1900HP and 47kph top speed you don't need a good armor profile

[timber flume]

50B best fat rat

[muted rampart]

Not a great idea, it lacks damage potential to be played like an autoloader, it resembles more something like WZ-121, a fast tank with great alpha, but can't really fire on the move and has a mediocre armor profile

[timber flume]

What I mean is take it onto the med/light side and bully them instead of going heavy side

[fading thorn]

*+-25% 420
*1800 hp
still no sense in speed because you need armor in this game , or you just another medium tank and yeah for example chimera has 0.27 accuracy

[muted rampart]

If you use the optimal setup (big food, big sandbags, big gear oil) it has over 1900 HP.

RNG affects all tanks in the game equally and is thus irrelevant in this disucssion.

Speed is a very powerful tool for any half decent player, especially with how much HP it has. It will win a direct encounter with pretty much any medium tank in the game and unlike other heavies it can actually chase them down.

If you want an armored tank just play something else man. It's a very solid tank whether you like it or not.

[fading thorn]

in all from your words you understand this tank is bad too , you just think speed is smth op for ht in this game
so you agree theres no sense in this tank because we already have chimera

"just get spawned on med side" brutal

[muted rampart]

Just because something doesn't suit your taste, doesn't mean it needs changing.

If you don't like the tank, just don't play it, no one forces you to.

It's not bad at all, and is interesting it's own right.

[timber flume]

@fading thorn just find a playstyle that works for u or just not use it not every tank works for everyone

[fallow eagle]

How to counter kran platoon

[timber flume]

For example I don't play the T-22 for the simple fact it don't fit how I play

@fallow eagle hori platoon

[muted rampart]

Go somewhere where you can't hulldown

[fallow eagle]

But the enemy team covers them from flanking attacks

[muted rampart]

Doesn't matter. If they can't go hulldown krans are a non issue.

[fading thorn]

its not my playstyle i can play every tank , speed is just worse than armor
speed its very situational thing, because not every match requires you to move to another direction in seconds, and armor will work in every match.
its just a fact , armor is better

[muted rampart]

That's a very controversial opinion. Ask pretty much any high skilled player and pretty much none will agree.

And again, if all tanks relied on armor the game would be boring. If you don't like tanks relying on speed, just don't use it, it is very much a problem of your playstyle, not the tank.

[fallow eagle]

I see
Thanks

[fading thorn]

my opinion affects only on ht tanks

[timber flume]

Idk man I'm also good with 90% of all the tanks while the T-22 is my most hated tank

[muted rampart]

The sheer fact that you base your opinion to such a high degree just on the class of the tank proves that you have a very shallow understanding of the game.

Class is only a tool to briefly cathegorize the vehicle, it says close to nothing about it's playstyle or it's parameters. It only draws a vague boundary on how people perceive it.

[timber flume]

Maybe I should do that since I have over 18k battles to my account and a heavy main xd

A lot of people call the KVJR bad but I enjoy it

[fading thorn]

naw he doesnt understand my point

[timber flume]

Wild

Just say your not good with that one tank

Anyone that judges u for not understanding a tank is just trash

Not everyone is perfect

[fading thorn]

again , im good on every tank , but prowler its just ht with weak chimera stats

and yeah this thing with crits so boring , its the first tank where gun getting destroying almost in all matches

[timber flume]

Why are you resisting to admit you can't use it

[muted rampart]

dude you are flexing your stats padded on newbies on a failed reroll account and expect anyone to consider you good?

[timber flume]

I can't use the T-22 and my stats in it is horrible

See how easy it was for me to admit I can't use that one tank

[fading thorn]

where did i flexed lol , i just said another fact

[fading thorn]

i want to understand is that skill issue or this tank is just bad , right now i think this tank is just garbage

[timber flume]

@muted rampart I don't think he understands no one is perfect

[muted rampart]

That's most certainly a skill issue.

While this tank isn't crazy overpowered like some other things we have at T8, it is a very solid vehicle and should do more than well enough in hands of a skilled player.

If you want to dish out 3k avg at T8 it's probably not your best choice, but you won't be able to do that in majority of tanks in the game, not only this one

[timber flume]

F2p wise how many wins I need to get the prowler

[muted rampart]

if you max out the shooting range it's like 70 wins with a 3rd class, it's a very easy event as far as free T8s go

EWithout shooting range it's like probably 200ish wins

[timber flume]

Cool I just wanna prove that guy he's just bad with it

[fading thorn]

so whats the point of this tank if we already have chimera? you just proving my point

[timber flume]

https://tenor.com/view/funny-gif-benjammins-meme-skillz-skills-gif-8205797589671011720

[muted rampart]

Dude, at this point it just feels like talking to a wall. You ask for opinion of others and then just straight up reject whatever they say as soon as it diverges from what you already think. Why even bother asking then? I will no longer particiapte in this discussion, do whatever you wish.

Just for the future maybe try getting out of your bubble and challenging your own world view from time to time, it should make you much less arduous to talk with.

[timber flume]

@fading thorn what's the point of the Caliban when we have so many other bonk based tanks

@muted rampart I remember my first time playing the 50B I was garbage with it til I discovered (with help from someone else) it does far better being used as a medium than a heavy

[fading thorn]

Your opinion is false, and you're the one ignoring my arguments. You acknowledged that there are better tanks, but you ignored the arguments about the tank constantly receiving critical hits and having worse accuracy than the Chimera.
Just admit I'm right and there's no point in this tank since we already have the Chimera. Don't make things up.

[muted rampart]

https://tenor.com/view/dono-wall-gif-24048347

[fading thorn]

caliban is just tank for fun , i more love medium tanks which more optional , chimera is simple example

[timber flume]

@muted rampart this rodent is new to the group

Could be a bot

[timber flume]

Well the Taliban is my second worst tank with 3 battles

Took me 3 battles to not like it

Sold it for dirt

[fading thorn]

dont be a toxic or what is this word idk , i just returned to this server back because of prowler

[fading thorn]

i think its funny but only in gamemodes , but idk i never played on it

[muted rampart]

Caliban isn't even that bad, it's a nice tank to play

[timber flume]

I would rather play with a Russian tank with no depression than the Caliban oh wait I do their the smasher/kv2/KVJR/obj777/is7 to a degree/any kv

[fading thorn]

ussr tank you mean

[timber flume]

As much I love to track people the shell speed keeps throwing me off so Ive given up on it after the third match

[timber flume]

.... The USSR is Russian

[fading thorn]

the ussr is Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Lithuania, Moldova, Latvia, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Armenia, Turkmenistan, Estonia.

russia its just russia , part of ussr

[fallow eagle]

https://tenor.com/view/yapping-yapping-level-today-catastrophic-yapanese-gif-13513208407930173397

[vapid horizon]

Prowler and IS-5 being so much faster than Lorraine 50t makes me cope so hard and seethe with jealousy.

[timber flume]

I've forgotten about the IS5

[high swift]

Give TVP VTU an autoloader please like 3 shells 220 damage because I honestly think its the worst tank in its tech tree

[dim current]

tankenstein buff when v:

[scarlet yarrow]

BUFF THE ARMOR ON THE TYPE 5 HEAVY!!!

[nimble zodiac]

No

[remote pawn]

https://tenor.com/view/patrick-drooling-patrick-star-spongebob-movie-drooling-slime-gif-525340425450564005

[marble willow]

I agree with that statement

[marble willow]

also MASSIVELY buff the 121 on move ❤️

[terse cairn]

Massively buff concept 1b and Kranvagn

[pastel shadow]

Buff SU-152 speed

[uneven turtle]

I’ve seen enough, give 215B a two shot auto reloader that doesn’t lose dpm for clip dumping

While you’re at it give it improved suspension super equipment too so it can accelerate up to 40 with ease and turn on a dime with barely any loss of speed

[terse cairn]

[zenith dew]

second the motion

[scenic hazel]

if they give lorraine 50t better gun handling this tank would be super good

[sand lark]

Buff BZ 176 to single shot 700/620/1100 of 19 seconds

[clear shuttle]

❌

[dense jasper]

Buff bzt70s armor

[young violet]

no. unless u nerf the gun, then i wouldnt mind too much

[grave vault]

I absolutely agree with this guy.

[dense jasper]

Gun is derpy and doesn't hit anything

[dense jasper]

Buff the reverse speed

[young violet]

bzt doesnt need a buff

[dense jasper]

Do you even have it

[young violet]

no ive played against it at least 200 times tho

it needs a buff about as much as 4005 does

[vapid horizon]

I think it just needs higher speed to be honest, its kinda slow

Honest even just like 47kph too speed would be enough

[timber flume]

What if the tiger 1 or 2 joined the defenders

[dense jasper]

As a bzt players it needs the reverse speed

[young violet]

if bzt gets reverse speed so does 4005

[vague fiber]

no

[dense jasper]

4005 has super speed boost

[young violet]

so the bzt just needs a speed boost then

[uneven turtle]

I don’t think you guys get the concept of a meme tank

[dense jasper]

What does super speed boost do? Increases reverse speed

[vague fiber]

BZT doesnt need anthing

[dense jasper]

Do you even have it or have you ever played it?

[vague fiber]

something with 910 alpha shouldnt be good

[marble willow]

and 1200 hesh

[dense jasper]

Not good, but atleast give it more than 9kph reverse

[marble willow]

No, you have the track mechanic. And you should not be rewarded by making dumb pokes

[vague fiber]

no

[dense jasper]

You're just mad because you don't have it 😂

[vague fiber]

i dont want that pile of trash, ur just mad because ur bad and cant perform in a meme tank

[dense jasper]

Idk i have 3.5k avg in it

[vague fiber]

good for you and it doesnt need a buff. also show a screenshot

[marble willow]

I have worse stats in it and I still dont want it buffed

[dense jasper]

Cool 😎 well i want it buffed, yes it's a meme tank but 9 reverse is diabolical

[vague fiber]

deserved

[dense jasper]

You don't believe good players exist? Or you just refuse that some random dude on discord is better than you ?

[vague fiber]

Alot of people lie about these stuff, not saying you do but thats the truth

[dense jasper]

Cool, i don't care and i have nothing to prove xd i brung this up because you said it's a pile of trash, which is not completely true and i used my stats as a way to tell you that bzt isn't

[vague fiber]

if it isnt why does it need a buff

[dense jasper]

It'd be more comfortable to play with more reverse speed or turret armor

[vague fiber]

no, it does not need this, we do not need a OP 183

[dense jasper]

It won't be that op, check it on PC, it can resist 420mm of heat, but the 2 cupolas don't allow it to play hulldown confortably

[vague fiber]

bro ur takes are horrible

[dense jasper]

The dispersion and accuracy prevent it from being OP

[marble willow]

Bro just gun block

[vague fiber]

BZT doesnt need any changes to it end of story

[dense jasper]

Your opinion, i have mine and i think it needs at least 15 of reverse, and @marble willow ik it can gunblock but explain to me how to block 2 cupolas that are on 2 opposite sides with one gun?

[vague fiber]

"bzt needs 15 reverse" what are you smoking man

[marble willow]

wiggle wiggle turret

[cinder shard]

To be fair, it doesn't have the same damage output on PC either. The tank itself is a one-trick pony and really shouldn't be able to get away with poking out in the open delivering a quick 1.1k damage and vanishing behind cover again before it can even take a hit in return.

[dense jasper]

Yes, but on PC you have very good gun handling and insane armor. And if you go 15kph reverse, you won't "vanish" behind cover. + You already stay exposed long enough aiming, so if you take an additional 5sec to get back in cover, well it ain't gud

[vague fiber]

Why are we giving a tank with 1200 alpha 15 reverse and good armour. Why

[dense jasper]

Not good armor, JUST THE TURRET, MAKE IT MEDIUM PROOF ATLEAST. And it will still have weak cupolas

[vague fiber]

Why should a tank with 1200 alpha should be punished for making stupid pokes, punished for playing it? what a crazy thought no

[dense jasper]

Huh ? xd

Or more hp

[cinder shard]

A tank like the BZT has a very fine line between bad, toxic, and overpowered, to be honest. There isn't really a way to make the tank "good" without reworking it, starting from the gun.

The one trick it has now is the biggest gun/highest alpha out of any T10 heavy. If the stats stay as they are, people who are playing it will complain. If you improve the stats, people playing against it will complain. It's a lose-lose at this point.

[vague fiber]

keep it as it is, if u want to play a 1200 dmg heavy, there are prices

[marble willow]

Agreed, to open up more possibilities for balance they gotta shave down that alpha. Or just remove it from the game

[dense jasper]

I don't think 5kph reverse will make it op

[cinder shard]

Probably not, but it will be even more annoying to fight. I can see why someone would like to have it buffed, but then again, I personally also don't want to see the tank become more efficient at what it does.
One 'wrong' move from anyone and a good chunk of their HP are gone.

[muted rampart]

It's not about it being OP, it's nowhere near that and idk what you would have to do to make it OP.

It's about the fact that nobody wants a 1300 alpha tank to be anywhere near viable. That's it. It's already toxic enough and floods the T10 alongside FV183. Any more of these would make T10 staright up unplayable.

[dense jasper]

Only 3.7k players played bzt last month, it's not flooding MM

[young violet]

yet

[dense jasper]

I'd say giving it sandbags atleast would not break the game

[muted rampart]

It isn't doing so right at this very moment, but those few days right after release were absolutely miserable.

Just look at the number of players that play the 183, let WG sell BZT for like 20k gold at some point and it will be all over the place.

Tanks like this are horrible because they are meant to be this way. End of story.

[vapid horizon]

Bzt is completely unfun to fight.

I may have fumbled, but this is just ridiculous.

[dense jasper]

Why do you show your broad side to a bzt anyway 😭

[vapid horizon]

Because I thought he was still l reloading, so I poked him and bounced 🗿

[prisma jetty]

So you made a stupid play and messed up and are now complaining about the tank? Seems reasonable

[dense jasper]

If you're mad about bzt being toxic because it hits you just dont get hit 🤗

[vapid horizon]

I already said I fumbled, but besides that bzt is kinda ridiculous and toxic regardless.

[dense jasper]

Idk, when i meet some against me they aren't that big of a deal

[vapid horizon]

Because they are terrible tanks? Just toxic and unfun to fight.

[dense jasper]

xD what is fun to fight then, bzt doesn't have a good pen so most heavies are hard to deal with and they can go right through u in return.. i don't have any troubles fighting bzt because ik i can ammorack it pretty easily, and once a bzt fires he is out for 24sec

[vapid horizon]

m103s, E75s, and most non-autoloader heavies are fairly fun to fight.

[dense jasper]

No, what do you call fun to fight ?

[vapid horizon]

You literally asked and I answered, what ambiguity could their possibly be.

[dense jasper]

What does the "fun" means?

[vapid horizon]

that its not unusually toxic.

[dense jasper]

K, well don't fight them xd there isn't 7 of them all the time

[vapid horizon]

Thats not always an option?

Its not like I can exit a match if I see a bzt 70 platooon.

[dense jasper]

XDDD ok then you don't know how to play the game if it is what you think

[vapid horizon]

Bro thinks I was brawling with the BZT-70s 🤣

[dense jasper]

Wdym lol, i said you don't know how to ply if you think there isn't always an option

[vapid horizon]

"Bro just dont fight the two tanks left which are both BZT-70s"

[dense jasper]

That's very situational and bzts are easy to outplay if you are in a medium or light

[vapid horizon]

which is true, but like I said, you do not always have an option to not fight tanks.

[dense jasper]

If you were talking about your game with lorraine, just don't show your BROAD SIDE to a bzt, even if you THINK he is reloading

That's just a skill issue

[vapid horizon]

Circular arguement

Bro just wants a tank to ruin people's games 🤣

[dense jasper]

No one is laughing with you bro, why trying to get more people against me? + It's ok to be bad at the game, as long as you improve

[vapid horizon]

there is literally no one talking but us, and I just realized you were previously begging for BZT to get buffed 🤣.
Which places everything you have said into a hilarious context.

[jaunty ridge]

Bzt is not a strong tank lmao. It's just toxic in the hands of a good player

A buff to reverse speed is still very much needed.

[dense jasper]

Did you even read what i said 😭 and i still want bzt to get a buff, i mentioned his low pen that makes it struggle against superheavies, i said i didn't have trouble fighting bzt and that they had weak ammo, i rlly don't know where you are going 🤣

[vapid horizon]

I never argued it was strong, infact I said it was terrible. I only said it was toxic & unfun to fight.

I dont see why the reverse speed should be buffed though, given the nature of what kind of tank it is.

[jaunty ridge]

the bzt does have the dire need of either a reverse or armor buff, and honestly even if it was both there wouldn't be much change to the overall experience fighting against one

[dense jasper]

IK, I DON'T WANT IT TO GO 20 REVERSE, BUT AT LEAST MORE THAN 10

[jaunty ridge]

It only has 2400 hp, which is diabolical considering how big the thing is.

[dense jasper]

If there is no change when fighting one then why are you against the buffs xd what you are saying doesn't make sense

[dense jasper]

I mentioned the low hp pool earlier, i think it needs to be buffed, or atleast have sandbags

[jaunty ridge]

It does though? You push it when it's on reload? That doesn't change regardless if it gets the armor or reverse speed buffed.

[vapid horizon]

It might, but it shouldn't be improved in either regard because it simply contributes to making it a flexible 183 that can avoid receiving damage.

[jaunty ridge]

183 gets to shoot you unspotted with 324 ap pen. Bzt is almost always perma lit, and really needs to aim in or catch your offguard to make any sort of impact

[dense jasper]

Yes the dispersion and accuracy is wayyy worse than 183 and the penetration being only 270 really lets you down sometimes

[vapid horizon]

Which doesnt negate the fact it is a heavy that can deal 1210 damage in a single shot.

[jaunty ridge]

yeah... if you're somehow dumb enough to expose yourself to that gun

[vapid horizon]

Like Caliban or a KV-2 its a meme that just exists to deal ridiculous amounts of damage and nothing else.

[uneven turtle]

It did splash me for 670 damage

[jaunty ridge]

other tanks, especially clippers can deal similar amounts of damage in far more reliable manners.

[vapid horizon]

Something of an underhanded insult dont you think?

[uneven turtle]

Was in a 60tp btw

[dense jasper]

True, yoh can deal 900 in 1.5sec for example

[jaunty ridge]

that's not underhanded... it's factual. If you're in a heavy that's consistently hull down, a bzt can't hit you for 1200 consistently

[vapid horizon]

Autoloaders are also a problem, but because autoloaders are toxic it doesnt mean 183/BZT-70 are not toxic.

[dense jasper]

You can't deny that your play wasn't an absolutely reckless and stupid move 😭

[jaunty ridge]

Of course.... there are bzt players that yolo in just to throw their tank away for a single shot of damage. That's the exception

[vapid horizon]

Its an attack directed at me and my credibility as opposed to my argument or opinion, lol.

[muted rampart]

On the other hand it can afford to poke, take however many shots necessary and then ruin your game. It is also much more flexible by the sheer fact of being a heavy.

No, it doesn't need a buff, let it rot in hell.

[dense jasper]

Aaand another guy who doesn't have bzt yet he thinks he knows how to play it....

[jaunty ridge]

the point applies to anyone though? It's like me calling your play of driving sideways on to a bzt in a lorraine a bad one. Stop taking everything so personally lmao.

[vapid horizon]

Also, I was hulldown most of the match except for the end, that is why I still had most of my hp.

[dense jasper]

You cannot take as many shots as you want, the hp pool is low for the type of tank the bzt is

[dense jasper]

Is this supposed to justify peeking in front of a bzt

[jaunty ridge]

Playing the first half of the battle properly doesn't negate the fact that this play wasn't a good one? What are we trying to get at here?

[vapid horizon]

When have I said anything to the contrary?

[dense jasper]

Sure the bzt is unfair when you peek sideway in a paper tank and get nuked for 1.6k

[jaunty ridge]

^ bzt is a literal skill check.

[vapid horizon]

The fact that it can nuke anything for 1.6k damage though...

[dense jasper]

Then don't say you "may have", you HAVE fumbled

[muted rampart]

yes, i do believe i know how to play it.

Also bold of you to assume that you even need to know anything to play the BZT lol. It's a type of tank you can play with your feet and you will do about as well as you usually would.

Super low skill floor and ceiling slop.

[prisma jetty]

bzt is bad right now and it should stay bad forever

[vapid horizon]

Using "may" doesnt imply doubt?

[dense jasper]

Wht is there to see lol it's just a regular account

[dense jasper]

It does, why

[vapid horizon]

Hopefully

[dense jasper]

Is it the gun mark that you're showing me?

[jaunty ridge]

The average bzt player experience in solo queue is either you meet monkeys who let you get opportunistic shots, or your team gets steamrolled before you do much.

Who could have guessed when a tank that has no armor, hp, or mobility to get out of bad situation is paired with a meme gun, it's not very reliable.

If winning is a priority, 183 is objectively stronger for solo queue. 4k5 mogs on both of them too.

[vapid horizon]

It doesnt? Beside English grammar being unrelated to this. It simply signals making a concession?

[muted rampart]

Just saying, but that just regular account has better stats than yours. Also funny how out of all your messages in this server half are asking for BZT buff lmao.

I know you probably spent ridiculous amounts of money to get it, but nobody here cares

[vapid horizon]

Not one person has claimed the BZT was anything was anything but a bad tank, I dont see your purpose in saying this.

[jaunty ridge]

Which is why it's fair for it to get a buff?

[vapid horizon]

☠️

[dense jasper]

XDDDD that's funny lol because you haven't seen my account, did you

[muted rampart]

I did. This one, isn't it? 🙂

[dense jasper]

How come you have better stats then, i have more dpg, my 30d winrate is higher, idk

[jaunty ridge]

idk if any one of you have had the chance to fight the bzt while it was in testing. That version had 12 reverse, and far better armor. Even then, it wasn't hyper oppressive as one might believe.

[muted rampart]

Just because something is bad doesn't mean it needs a buff. There are some tanks that are purposefully kept trash, because otherwise they would end up toxic and make the gameplay on affected tiers horrible.

BZT-70 and Fv183 are examples of this exact type of tank

[vapid horizon]

If BZT were made more flexible, it would only be logical for it to lose some lethality.

[jaunty ridge]

183 is different. It has camo, pen, and dpm. It also doesn't take up a heavy tank slot which is like... the most important one for pubs at least.

There's a reason why the new supposed mm tries imposing heavy tank symmetry, albeit currently it is far from perfect.

[vapid horizon]

Not to mention it kinda sucks when you have a bzt on your team and you lose a slot for an actually useful heavy.

[muted rampart]

Well duh, your average tier is 8,86 while mine is 7,6 who would have guessed you will have more DPG. Your stats are indeed way worse.

[jaunty ridge]

The bzt cannot play like a heavy in any sense of the world. It cannot hold and buy time for the team, or even really help in a push. It plays entirely like a support td, where it farms off the hp of your teammates.

[dense jasper]

Lol we have the same avg dmg and same number of battles in t10

My 90d in t8 is way better than yours aswell so i don't know where you want to to with this

[muted rampart]

Your 90d comprising of the grand number of 70 battles in ISU-130. I believe it's my question to ask. Where do you want to go with that?

Just say it out in the open that you are salty about spending a tone of money on a garbage tank. I'll wait.

[dense jasper]

Well maybe because it's the only t8 available in my garage? + You are the one bringing average tier on the table.

I am doing very fine in bzt and i'm having fun, i think i'm doing good in it, i am just saying a little buff would make it more confortable

[jaunty ridge]

It's always back to statshaming. 🥀

Ye the bzt isn't atrocious

[muted rampart]

You've got to prove you know what you are talking about to push through a stupid point like that. Without anything to back it up it sounds just as stupid as it actually is.

[dense jasper]

And i didn't spend much to get it, i only had to spend half of the prices

• 40k battles and 60% wr isn't something you can boast about, you want to bring stats to the discussion yet when I look there i only see a "bit above average" player

[jaunty ridge]

If anything I'm more frustrated about how the supposedly improved mm works rn

[muted rampart]

And what we say is that we know it's not comfortable at all, but it's precisely because it's not supposed to be.

[jaunty ridge]

Even in its current state i love this thing to death lol

[dense jasper]

Bzt?

It's by far my favorite tank, just saying i want the reverse speed to be a tiny wee bit better

[vapid horizon]

If im not wrong the new MM rule is only on EU?

[jaunty ridge]

Fr? Thought it was implemented on every server

[vapid horizon]

Yeah?

[vapid horizon]

#coming-soon message

[jaunty ridge]

Far as i know it should be global... This isn't like supertests

[dense jasper]

Where do you want to go with this anyway, i didn't spend more than 100 to get it, which is low compared to the full price for the boxes, and i'm not being salty about the tank but because you had to come and perform a failed statshame.

[vapid horizon]

You may have greater insight, I only know what WG has announced publicly.

[jaunty ridge]

Ah. Well good to know. I was about to confirm with my clan lead.

[muted rampart]

The new MM was implemented across all servers during the last update. It was tested on EU only before the upodate afaik

[dense jasper]

Did they change the matchmaking? I haven't noticed much changes tbh

[muted rampart]

max 3 autoloaders/autoreloaders per team and heavies must be matching in tier now

[jaunty ridge]

Maybe its cause NA and apac have so little players the new system cant work properly

[dense jasper]

It is barely noticeable to me, the main issue with the MM was and still is the skill gap between players, and the fact that 0-7 1min games still exist

[muted rampart]

WG tried skill based mm once. We all know how it ended up.

[vapid horizon]

In the match I played earlier it was 10/10/10/9/9 vs 10/10/10/10/9.

[dense jasper]

True 😭

[vapid horizon]

Another was 10/10/9 vs 10/10/10/9, so it doesnt appear any rule has been implemented.

[muted rampart]

Random MM is necessary. Let's leave it at that

[vapid horizon]

Im pretty confident it hasnt? Because the exact example they gave as of being impossible occured in one of my games 10/10/9 vs 10/10/10?

[muted rampart]

Mm can bend it's rules when there are not enough players to shorten queue times. Idk at this point tho

[timber flume]

Can the T95 get an v18 engine

[summer granite]

i think shierdan could get better damage or smaller reload time, it is really hard to play(not in meta), there are other tanks that have more damage and same or smaller reload time, it needs Buff

[vague fiber]

https://tenor.com/view/skillissue-skill-issue-gif-22125481

this channel makes me lose braincells
what "other tanks" are you talking about

[vapid horizon]

🗿

[summer granite]

object 263 wich deals 460 damage but in 7s so in 14 seconds shierdan fired once with 500-550 dmg and object 263 fired twice, with both hits, object dealt more than 800 dmg

[vague fiber]

is this ragebait

[summer granite]

or ho-ri

[vague fiber]

is this ragebait?

[terse cairn]

Yes it is

[summer granite]

what do you mean ragebait like the shierdan or what

[vague fiber]

is this ragebait or do you need help

[summer granite]

only that every tank kills shierdan faster than shierdan could even fire

[vague fiber]

sheri is OP imo

[terse cairn]

Comparing a td which is known for the highest dpm at tier 10 to a lt.
This must be a ragebait

[hushed token]

Or lack of Intelligence , which is understandable for a sheridan user

[summer granite]

literally every tank has better dpm than shierdan, every tank from tier X american tree has bigger dpm

[vague fiber]

Maybe because it has 570 alpha?

[summer granite]

there is only one time that i hit more than 650 dmg, if you hit someone there is almost zero chance for 700 dmg or more

[hushed token]

And ?

[vague fiber]

So? Its a light tank

[summer granite]

even bc 25 t is better

[vague fiber]

they are different tanks with completely different identities

[summer granite]

it is light tank isn´t it

[vague fiber]

Batchat is an autoloader light tank
sheri is a high alpha light tank

[hushed token]

Sheridan users when their tank doesn't have 3 shells autoloader , 570 alpha each shell and 4000 DPM (They would still suck in it)

[summer granite]

then how many ranks do you have on shierdan

[terse cairn]

Ranks doesn't matter tbh

[zenith dew]

light tanks are literally the easiest tank class to play. Having the option to control engagement using mobility and camo alone makes them strong. Therefore they need to be balanced. Sheridan does not need any buffs at all

its a light tank with excellent mobility and camo already given, high alpha, can pull off miraculous bounces, and a ridiculously high heat-pen

what more do u want? lmao

bet u 50 this specimen brawls in his sheri

[scarlet karma]

do you mean marks

[hasty field]

Don’t forget tungsten lmao

[glad flower]

Heavies are the easiest tanks to play

[twin cargo]

Yes and no imo.
But it could be because I play on my phone and not Pc.

[marble willow]

They are though, and im mobile

[muted rampart]

❌

That's like Top 3 worst takes i've seen here in 2026

[remote pawn]

What's top 2 and 1

[muted rampart]

I don't have them in particular order, but Top 1's gotta be that guy who bought BZT from auction and said that 500$ tank can't be weak and must be buffed because he didn't spend that money on nothing

[remote pawn]

Oh that guy

💔

[glad flower]

does he know

[inland oasis]

A sheridan is a long reload heavy hitter meant for recons

It has a turret which alternatively in the right hands will win an obj 263 despite the low dpm,not to mention the conceal on movement which practically makes it an invis target towards most vehicles

[swift mortar]

Hello, I'm contacting you to express my dissatisfaction following the addition of the new Chinese tank, the BZT-70, after having invested a significant amount of money in this game. I'm truly disappointed with this tank; its armor is paper-thin and its accuracy is mediocre. I initially participated in the auction, bidding around €400, I think, but I didn't get the tank. Unfortunately, I then decided to buy it from crates, which cost me even more money on top of everything I'd already spent in the game. After obtaining this new tank, I was very happy at first, but quickly disappointed given its poor quality. I hope you will make some fixes for it, or even better, make some kind of gesture for all the players who are increasingly disappointed. I'm eagerly awaiting the Reforged update. Thank you for your response.

[inland oasis]

We cant be deadass bro..

[terse cairn]

@muted rampart I think the worst take of your list is here

[swift mortar]

or where I can actually contact someone to help me

[inland oasis]

Just because you spent a ton doesnt mean that things gonna be good

[swift mortar]

I know

[inland oasis]

Have you even checked reviews or gameplay of it before doing such thing?

[swift mortar]

Yes

[terse cairn]

Then just stop complaining about it.

[inland oasis]

Thats just idiotic choices then

[swift mortar]

It was presented as a very good tank, but that was absolutely not the case before it was released, of course

[inland oasis]

It was never a good tank hello? People will sooner or later realize its weak spots and take advantage of it

[terse cairn]

Not at all. You could have checked blitzkit before buying it

[swift mortar]

Are you dev ?

[inland oasis]

No dev is gonna listen for ts gang jst saying🤟

[swift mortar]

How to contact a developer

[inland oasis]

Theyre gonna give you a warning for asking or requestimg a stupid question

[swift mortar]

Why

[terse cairn]

Cuz your take is stupid. BZT doesn't need any buff. Its supposed to sacrifice everything for that high alpha just like 183

[inland oasis]

Tank is just for giggles take it or leave it mate

[swift mortar]

I know I won't climb to the top of the ranked ladder with it, but this tank is really bad for the price, that's all.

[inland oasis]

Thats just like the waffen and BZ 176

[terse cairn]

Nobody forced you to buy it

[hushed token]

That is the point of BZT . To be a bad tank , you get what you ask for when the tank stats are leaked

[inland oasis]

If you wanted real competitive tanks just buy ones that players recommend or ones that suit your playstyle to be effective

[swift mortar]

I never said I wanted to play competitively with this tank

[muted rampart]

It was never, we all knew it is horrible months before it was released

[muted rampart]

💀 💀

[remote pawn]

Presented as a very good tank

Since when was it presented as a very good tank
???????

[inland oasis]

oh my god 1.2k alpha guys woohoo yea buy it yea woohoo

[arctic elbow]

So wz 113 needs a buff of damage alpha and armor and hp also and Rhm pzw removing reactive armor adding damage reducer of HE i dont know what is called and vk72.01K buffing the hull and and adding 200hp for Hitpoints who agrees with me?

[muted rampart]

How about you divide your points into separate paragraphs and provide any sort of reasoning and proof behind why you would want that?

[arctic elbow]

Because

Im always getting killed and reducing my wr thats is

I hope wg listen to me

[muted rampart]

Then that's not a valid proof.

The only thing you can prove with that is your inability to use the tanks correctly.

If you want your point to be heard you need proper data taken from entire playerbase proving that the tanks you wish to buff are indeed lacking.

[arctic elbow]

I use tanks correctly but i wish to be heard but what to do now?

[muted rampart]

Search for proper data and articulate your points better.

There are website offering statistics from entire playerbase like Blitzanalysiz and Blitzkit.

Also be more obejctive. If the data does not back up your claim, or seems to contradict it, rethink the entire thing and make sure that it's not your skill that is the problem.

The first step to getting better at the game is accepting your own faults and realizing that it's not always your tank/team that is a problem.

[arctic elbow]

I have blitzkit app now what now?

[muted rampart]

Go into performance section and search for the tanks that you are interested in

[vague fiber]

no

[vague fiber]

https://tenor.com/view/skillissue-skill-issue-gif-22125481

[arctic elbow]

...

[vague fiber]

is 3k dpm 410 alpha not enough?

[arctic elbow]

460 alpha and 3k dpm is best

[vague fiber]

greedy

[cosmic saddle]

bro thats insane

[upper knot]

Take a look at BlitzStars.com. You can look up your own stats and see which tanks you do better in, which one's you survive in longer, etc. It's a good way to identify which tanks help your wr, and what areas that need improvement.

Then look for You-Tube reviews of that tank by searching "wot blitz tankname." Even if the video is a few years old it may give you hints on how to play that tank. You can also find helpful videos on topics such as using cover and concealment and other topics.

[vague fiber]

watch droodles

[remote oriole]

💀

[muted rampart]

Hell naw man

[vague fiber]

50b t57 or yoh

[muted rampart]

Yoh

[terse beacon]

50b is the best of those 3 currently, just also the hardest to use

[marble willow]

Yoh. 900 in 1.71 is stupid

Plus rect calibration

[marble willow]

Oh and the track mechanic and goofy armor

[deep pewter]

yeah but accuracy pretty bad and long reload

[marble willow]

You have recticle calibration for that. And if you dont like the 120mm you can always swap to the 105mm with shell reload boost

[lapis halo]

E-100 exists with the 122 mm

[marble willow]

128mm

[lapis halo]

My bad

Also does wg even read this chat? And actually listen to us?

[scarlet karma]

they do

[lapis halo]

Yeah, then they should buff older prems like kv-5 m48 raumpanzer, löwe and other tanks that are basically forgotten

With how many other tier 8 prems that are that are much better, they just simply feel outdated and obsolete for me

[terse beacon]

Except none of those tanks you named are bad to begin with, but sure there's definitely some old tanks in need of something

[lapis halo]

I will never say they are bad. They are just not good enough with how many other premiums there are

[terse beacon]

What exactly does "not good enough" mean? If they're already balanced tanks what are the positives of buffing everything to a higher level?

You are just going to end up making games more volatile. Take Lowe for example the only buff this tank would actually even need is a slight dpm buff, as it already has everything else for what the tank wants to do

[lapis halo]

Why would i drive a T95e2 when i can drive a progetto 46 or a defender mk1

[terse beacon]

Why would I drive a medium when I can play an e6. Nonsensical argument, there will always be the strong or "meta" tanks regardless of tier. It does not mean you are forced to play them nor does it mean balanced tanks need to be buffed to the same level. T95e2 also isn't balanced it just is bad

[lapis halo]

Tornvagn and concept 1b was a myhtical Idea from wg too

[waxen geode]

Opinions on the TNH 105/1000? Im grinding on skirmish and its fully stocked. I can't complain. Been getting 2K damage in most games with it.

[vague fiber]

mid

[waxen geode]

Not a popular tank right? That means I have an opportunity to get an with it.

[vague fiber]

ig yeah
but its not a good tank either

[lime spruce]

buff Löwe frontal armour by 5mm.

[muted rampart]

I don't think it would help the tank at all.

Löwe has always been more of a gun focused heavy, if it were to be buffed i'd be more inclined toward improving DPM and accuracy even more over armor buffs to make it more unique

[lime spruce]

The gun is already pretty damn good id say. Yeah I would enjoy better DPM (reload speed), but a bit better armour at 92T might seem reasonable, it can help with actually using its gun. Plus, my rounds are either, I shine and get a or , then the next, every TD pens my turret frontally and I can't get a shot out.

something like this happens, either it's all turret shots, LFP, or side panel, then I die.

[nimble zodiac]

... in a tier 9 match

[olive pond]

I've been playing for 10 years. Please bring back that powerful gun from the Wt Aufun. It was the only tank I enjoyed playing 😄

[knotty gust]

Is obj 268 getting buffed cuz its lots worse than vefore

[muted rampart]

That's the point. Instead of making it a generic heavy with strong hull and turret and lower plate weakspot, make it a heavy with such a good gun that no other heavy comes close

[magic pebble]

PLZ WG buff the ammo rack of the Bz-70 ! I got full live ammo rack three time in row, that's insane ! U can't show ur tank, if a 150mm gun hit u, you have 1/2 to explode... Dear player of blitz, don't waste ur money in this big trash can, bc it's litteraly unplayable !

I swear if i'm ammorack a 4th time, idk what i could do

[knotty gust]

Don't show ur sides then

[magic pebble]

... u can litteray be ammo rack showing ur front

if a 150mm+ gun hit u pray to not explode

and with 9km/h reverse speed, it's hard to not show any part of ur tank. But maybe u can manipulate the game or camp in the back, that's ur solution ?

[hushed token]

High risk high reward tank . You either go big or go kaboom

[magic pebble]

i agree, but u got more kaboom than big ...

[muted rampart]

If you don't want to explode play something else. It's a trade off, you explode others, but may explode in turn as well

[magic pebble]

yeah, but c'mon in this state the ammo are absudly weak

[muted rampart]

And let it be like that. Bzt was never suposed to be a good tank

[pliant venture]

・Lorraine 40t Fearless Buff
Reload time 21.54s → 20.45s
Next shot reload 2.3s → 2.1s
Aim time 2.21s → 1.90s
Accuracy 0.336 → 0.316

・Lorraine 40t Buff
Accuracy 0.336 → 0.308
Aiming Spread 0.14/0.14/0.10 → 0.10/0.10/0.08
Aim time 2.21s → 1.90s

・AMX Defender Buff
Accuracy: 0.345 → 0.316
Aiming time: 1.82 → 1.68
Aiming spread: 0.13/0.13/0.10 → 0.11/0.11/0.06

・The massive buff to GSOR Fearless
That's total garbage

[unkempt sorrel]

so whats the final DMP out of that?

[muted rampart]

That just makes Lorraine 40t like 20 times worse than Lorraine fearless

[pliant venture]

DPM will likely increase by about 150

[sand lark]

BZ-176 buff (no equipment)
Single shot Gun
Damage: 700/600/1100
Aiming time: 6 seconds
AP/HEAT/HE
Reload time: 19.5 seconds
Its dispersion, onmovement can stay The same

[jagged crown]

K-91 intraclip can be change to 3.3 or 3s instead of 3.5s

Same for T57 , it got nerfed on the alpha dmg and only got 2.4s instead of 2.5 , 2.2 could be better

[hushed token]

Never cook again

[cinder shard]

Honestly, I personally don't think so. We've been getting quite a few autoloaders (and ones with pretty fast reloads) over the last few months. If anything, it makes them more toxic. Less intra-clip also means that the tanks can get their shots out much quicker and can avoid taking some damage in return.

[jagged crown]

And Skoda t27 need at least 270-280 alpha to make it better vs higher tiers

[jagged crown]

Ik but some of them are very long for exemple the K91 has 3.5s for only 350 alpha

You cant win trades with this tank if you dont permatrack the tank

And i think maybe 3.2 or 3s can make the tank better

[cinder shard]

Which arguably is what keeps the tank balanced and non-toxic. It can't empty the whole clip in no time, but also has a pretty quick reload for the entire thing. Depending on equipment, it has the second or third best DPM out of any T9 heavy tank, all the while having 1050 clipping potential, a great armor profile, an all-around reliable gun, and okay mobility.

It's in contention for the best all-rounder T9 heavy in my eyes.

All the intraclip buff would do is make it more toxic and even stronger than it already is.
Even if the alpha damage is nerfed, the tank would be able to use all shells more effectively, resulting in a better damage output than with the 350 alpha it has right now.
I honestly struggle to find anything wrong with the tank that would justify such a buff.

[jagged crown]

Maybe your right i really enjoy the tank , but it was an exemple , a lot a tanks need better intraclip like the Fanrik , Astron , Sentinelle

And the atrocious BZ-176

[cinder shard]

To be honest, if anything, I'd buff the mobility on the Fänrik. The tank doesn't have the best armor profile, and I'd generally be careful with how two-shot autoloaders are balanced. In general, most of them combine single shot and autoloader in such a way that makes them extremely capable.
I do sort of agree with the Astron, though. Low DPM, alpha, and the long intraclip are one too many downsides.
The BZ probably needs a broader rework, and the Sentinelle is kind of a tank that combines autoloader and single shot, but isn't as extreme as stuff like the C1B or 752. The only thing I'd like to see buffed on it would be the aim time.

[vague fiber]

Sentinelle doesn’t. Tungsten+short clip reload

[odd remnant]

astron is fine, it deals significantly higher damage than what most meds can do + it has armor
fanrik and most seasonal tanks are pretty much destined to be garbage, and we really dont need more 752s running around

[spark glen]

Agree with all, disagree with ASTRON.
Man this tank's DPM really need a buff a little bit.

[jagged crown]

Tank is good but the long intraclip combined with long reload isnt great it need a better intraclip or less reload thats all

[vapid horizon]

Lorraine 40t fearless shouldn't have better stats than the regular Lorraine 40t.

[grave vault]

Yeah it's just a re-skin.

[grave vault]

I'd say we go for 680 + Tungsten for 21,76 sec.

[sand lark]

Thats dumb, 1.8k dpm in TIER 9

[vapid horizon]

Astron Rex is awesome

[grave vault]

We give HESH for 810.

[sand lark]

Why bother, just play BZ 68 if you want that playstyle

[grave vault]

I mean technically BZ-176 is a tier 8 but now it's in tier 9 so.

You can't make 160mm. cannon a "dpm gun", BZ-176 is just the mini version of the BZT-70.

[sand lark]

What im trying to make is remain the dpm the same but making it into a single shot

[vague fiber]

I say we keep its gun

[grave vault]

I mean I just tried to make it a very powerful singe-shot too.

I didn't thought about the dpm. that much since you just go kaboom the enemy and retreat.

Also I meant the 21,76s. as raw reload. You can drop it to 19,9s. with food I think.

[vague fiber]

why does it need to be a singleshot

[cinder shard]

I haven't played it in a little bit. I just remember my last experience with it not being very fun.

I'm probably expecting a bit much; I often find myself playing stuff like the Chimera or Defender MK1.

[jagged crown]

BZ-74-1 is absolute trash omg

[jagged crown]

the tank is good but yeah a little bit less intraclip can make it better

[muted rampart]

It's not that bad. Ofc it's not a good tank or anything, but there are worse things at t9

[muted rampart]

Which is you know, precisely what we don't want.

Since it's already good enough we don't want to make it better. Long intraclip is the only thing holding it back

[slate talon]

If gettiing set on fire 4 times in a row in one match is not bad enough, then like......

[muted rampart]

Yes it's not bad enough, because it's totally random and only happens with side/rear shots in case of BZ 74

Also fires in blitz deal very little damage anyway. With maxed out crew fires deal like 200-300 damage which is bearable even if you don't have your extinguisher ready.

[slate talon]

yea its not THAT bad but when you combine things such as 0 turret armor, terrible accuracy, low alpha with long reload, medicore mobility, its just beocme a bad tank

[muted rampart]

Low alpha? 460 is well above average for a T9 heavy. It's also to be expected for it to be paper when you realize it is the 2nd fastest T9 heavy only below 50TP prototype.

I agree it's not very competitive but don't make it out to be some unheard of pile of trash, there are much worse tanks in this game.

[jagged crown]

Still need armor buff the turret is trash

[muted rampart]

I'd say let it be for now.

It is too rare of a tank to objectively determine it's performance. The sample group is too small which causes it to be biased.

What WG should do is make it available for more people in one way or another and then see how it does among larger group of players

[twin egret]

it's a Emil I at tier 9 with an obj 752 style autoloader p much

[vague fiber]

Nah armour sucks

[twin egret]

yeah when you have like tier 8 levels of armor at tier 9 it'll suck lol

[vague fiber]

Fanrik sucks

[twin egret]

yeah I guess

For some reason the Fanrik weighs 50 tons? weird, that should be lowered to 26 tons and that will give it tons of p/w to make it flexible. Also giving it calibrated improved speed boost can distinguish it a little more

[lilac crest]

Just like Wz114 tier IX bro slow traverse speed and top speed but tank weight only 43 ton....is ridiculous for such a heavy armor I mean armor is so thick compare to some 60 ton tank in game

Btw why Tiger maus lower plat is trash than everyone who using same hull or even e75...

[vague fiber]

Same guy who said kran turret is pennable by is7 btw

[nimble zodiac]

Because the game wants to teach you to hide it behind cover, such that you'd be tempted to sidescrape

[lilac crest]

It's got shot in front wheel and losing hp easy than e100 tho

[nimble zodiac]

Considering that the armor value of the track and side armor of these tanks are:
Tiger-Maus: 130mm with 30mm tracks
E100: 120mm with 40mm tracks

The Tiger-Maus literally has it better

[lilac crest]

So why I bounce on e100 more than maus

[vague fiber]

Tiger maus side armour is busted

[nimble zodiac]

Not to mention that E100 isn't as capable of sidescraping duew to its more frontally-placed turret. Tiger-Maus can angle its side armor to a more extreme angle than E100 can. Considering that without even hitting the tracks, Tiger-Maus has better side armor than E100

[nimble zodiac]

It depends who you're fighting. Maybe you were dealing with a higher penetration opponent when you were in the Tiger-Maus. Maybe you just made more misplays when using Tiger-Maus. Perhaps the side armor isn't the problem (if you sidescrape correctly) and the enemy is targeting other spots on the tank

[vague fiber]

I hate fighting tiger mauses as a cobra main

[nimble zodiac]

Optimal sidescrape angle for the hull. Try to match that and then worry about angling the turret if you're still getting penetrated.

I promise you, the side armor is one of the last problems about the armor profile.

(For the sliver of 130mm armor, good luck hitting that I guess)

[vague fiber]

I swear the side armour is thicker than the lower plate on flat ground lol

[lilac crest]

Maybe cuz when i play e100 I just forward and wiggle so it's bounce it? Cuz maus can't wiggle cuz of Traverse speed

[nimble zodiac]

Maybe. Don't expect to bounce a lot of shots our in the open. If you sidescrape, you'll have a better time bouncing in Tiger-Maus than in E100

[vague fiber]

Lol what

[nimble zodiac]

If I weren't NA server I would try to help in a training room

[vague fiber]

E100 doesn’t have really good armour ngl

Even sideacraping isn’t the best bc every time you should u need to expose the turret which sucks

[lilac crest]

Where are u?

[nimble zodiac]

North America

[lilac crest]

Oh...damn... I'm in Asian..

[scarlet karma]

does shooting at the lower cheeks bounce the shot into the engine deck

[muted rampart]

No, the angle isn't sharp enough. In blitz you need over 70 degree angle for that to happen

[vapid horizon]

Its really nice because of how small it is combined with the armour, its a really nice change of pace compared to french autoloader survivability.

[lilac crest]

@nimble zodiac it easy to ace too

[vapid horizon]

A lot of tier 9s are kinda just undercooked.
Bz could benefit from ap standard, abit more traverse, and slightly better gun handling (.2/.2/.1 instead of .2/.22/.12). Then it would be a very decent tank.

[muted rampart]

No, they are not. And K-91 is very good and deserves no buffs

[vapid horizon]

I never suggested K-91 get any buffs? I was referring to the Bz-74-1, and I will stand behind quite a few tier 9s being undercooked, especially after recent tier changes.

Tanks like Vk 168, 59 Patton, M46, etc are very much so undercooked and could use some changes.

[muted rampart]

That's a whole different story then, but that goes for pretty much any other tier. In order to change that you would need a large scale rebalance like what we could see at T10 for the past few years multiple times

[vapid horizon]

Not really, I am of the view some changes could be made to a few tanks and their wouldn't be an issue.

If M46 patton for example, had 245/290 on ap/apcr instead of 225/265, it would be fine.

[muted rampart]

And congratulations you just turned M46 into yet another average slop tank.

For some tanks their weaknesses are their main unique factor, the only thing that sets them apart from others.

The easy way to buff them is to just simply improve them in those areas, but then they simply end up boring.

I am of an opinion that whenever the tank is unusually weak in some area like the pen of M46, you should try to buff it in other areas so that you are forced to play around the unique weakness of the tank instead of just turning your brain off and using it as any other t9 med

[vapid horizon]

I dont see how that makes m46 into another average slop tank by just giving it a relatively standard degree of penetration. its still a paper gun focused tank

Giving it turret armour and nerfing the gun handling would make it an average slop tank sure, but more penetration? I do not see that

But I do nonetheless agree its normally better to not balance tanks by buffing their weaknesses.

[muted rampart]

And that's the whole problem. Paper gun focused tank is a completely oversaturated niche. Whatever tank you put there will either be dead on arrival, or make 10 other tanks obsolete. That's why differences to put it aside are necessary.

Take a stock IS-6 as an example, there are like 10 other soviet 400 alpha heavies at T8, but you won't find anything other like that. This thing has an absolutely pathetic pen for a T8 heavy, so much so that you struggle to pen some things from the side, but then you look at the reload and you realize that you can out DPM some mediums while retaining a very solid damage per shot. It is a valid trade that makes the tank interesting.

I believe M46 could work somewhat similarly to that.

Such wonky tanks are indeed hard to play, and require adjustments to your playstyle, so many people do not like them, but that's precisely what makes them interesting to use. You actually need to think and find an entirely new suitable playstyle for them.

[vapid horizon]

This is a good point, so what would you recommend then?

[muted rampart]

I would leave the pathetic pen and give it some other factor to make up for it and make players want to use it.

Honestly anything will do. It might be godly gun handling that would make it insanely accurate on the move, it may be very high DPM, it may be slightly higher alpha than other tanks of this caliber, perhaps a very good HE shell excelling in both pen and damage, there are endless options.

[vapid horizon]

I suppose you could buff the dispersion and aimtime, the only two stats that arent great on the gun besides pen.

But in any case, Tier 9 could use some attention for some of the more forgotten and weak tanks of the tier.

I personally want to in particular see this evil change reverted.

[muted rampart]

Understandable, it was unnecessary to say the least

[vapid horizon]

Kinda sapped the fun out of an otherwise enjoyable tank, it was so nice having that traverse combined with the other mobility characteristics, made it worth playing despite the inflexibility.

[muted rampart]

Tbh AMX 50 120 should get 8 degrees of gun depression i see no reason for this absolute skyscraper to have so little of it. If it gets that i can forgive the traverse

[solemn olive]

I didn't understand that conquerer side armor is non existent. Actually seems like most of its armor is non existent?

[muted rampart]

The whole line starting from T8 is like that. Accept it or give up on grinding it.

FV 215b is arguably even more paper, this line focuses entirely on the gun. If you have trouble using the conq, you will have even harder time on FV

[uneven turtle]

215B gets pretty ridiculous protection when being faced frontally though

[muted rampart]

Not really. In cali meta it's all meaningless.

The turret is stronger than on the conq, but it's very situational due to it's rear placement and still penetrable with gold, while hull is basically swiss cheese

[uneven turtle]

You absolutely positive about that?

[muted rampart]

Yes.

[uneven turtle]

Against 390 heat

[muted rampart]

This is UFP with no cali, it can be penned with standard.

Even if you angle, wiggle or whatever, you will block mid pen standard rounds with no cali at best, everything will go through like hot knife trough butter

[muted rampart]

Yeah sure you will be positioned like that.

This is a rear turreted tank, if you poke like that you will get shot long before you can fire back. You are also very likely to expose your LFP. It's a terrible position, you should never position yourself like this.

[uneven turtle]

Once you become accustomed to 215B’s size and it being a rear turreted tank, it becomes easier than you realise it is to find positions that allow you to have that armor profile

Against your average pen prammo heavies, it can pretty reliably bounce shells

[muted rampart]

It's a foolish dream. You can count on your one hand positions on all maps in the game where you can set yourself up like that and just stand there.

Realistically speaking if you even get to go hulldown in a rear turreted tank with 7 degrees of gun dep, it will be behind pile of rubble on flat ground.

And even then after like 30 seconds of fighting enemy will retreat and force you out of position.

If your armor is only strong in the most perfect and ideal scenario, it's just not strong at all

[uneven turtle]

It’s still enough that it usually forces people to use prammo, which is already a step up from conq where even hulldown, higher standard pen tanks in t9 usually have no problem cutting thru the turret

[jade cargo]

✅ maciek678 was banned.

[muted rampart]

It's still by no means well armored tho, it's basically slower medium tank level armor

[solemn olive]

I mean I know it is that bad, but I tend to forget it and then try to use the tank at all and realize it was a very bad mistake to frontline with it. So the point of my post here, is why? Is it needed? Is the gun that good? I have the Mk6 and it has its problems too and must remain support heavy but I don't really think the conq is that kind of tank historically and in the game.
I hadn't touched it in a while, and I remember how it is getting in a groove with it. Still though does it need to be medium levels of heavy?

[unkempt sorrel]

vz.55 techtree line improve proposal. Vz. 44-1: 88mm double shot with 1.80s intraclip and 11.90s reload, base DMP of 1.927 (2.110 max). OR make 100mm a double shot, with 2.14s intraclip and 16.80s reload time, base DMP of 1.902 (2.085 max). TNH 105/1000: make middle 105mm gun a double shot with 2.14s intraclip and 15.85s reload time, base DMP of 2.067 (2.268 max). Vz. 51: 122mm gun gets a similar concept, 2,73s intraclip and 20.49s reload time, base DMP of 2.170 (2.380 max). what does anyone think about this?

[grave vault]

Nah Vz. 55 is very good right now.

But the tier VIII and IX tanks needs the auto loader too not gon'na lie.

[unkempt sorrel]

yeah thats the point, vz 55 is really good rn, but the techtree is just sad/boring

[grave vault]

Oh I agree with that absolutely.

[vapid horizon]

Original model could only fit 6

[inland oasis]

Nah the conq is fine on its own

Armor isnt needed and you rely on mobility and gun to make it work,historically i think it wouldnt be as paper as tanks from that era had arguably low pen?

[terse beacon]

Are you really trying to say conq needs an armour buff? The thing is already easily one of the absolute strongest t9s in the game

[solemn olive]

What do you mean by strongest?
I said what i said there. 53 mm side armor is terribly weak. Usually there is some kind of trade off. The gun doesn't have great alpha. The turret can't take well placed standard rounds. It is very sluggish and slow top speed compared to the godly t9 heavies that have all those things and guns that have higher alpha. Sidescraping it still has the turret bulge as a weakspot, it doesn't need to be pennable all over the plate too.

[terse beacon]

What do you think I mean? It is one of the best t9s in the entire game and it isn't even remotely close. Armour is not very relevant when you have a better gun than 90% of t10 heavies let alone t9s. And tank isn't sluggish at all

[cinder shard]

The gun is about the best out of any T9. It's more or less the 215b gun with slightly worse reload and dispersion values. The turret traverse dispersion is even better than on the T10, though.
The improved Speed-boost helps the tank in terms of mobility while the gun just takes apart anything you meet if you get into the right position.

The 215b tech tree doesn't have the best armor in general. The tanks from Tier 8 to Tier 10 all have decent mobility and great guns for their tier.

[solemn olive]

Well you mean metaphorically strong right? lol tell me honestly; if you see one on the enemy team are you worried about it? No because it isn't like you are going to sit there and let it peck away at your HP to see any meaningful dpm. It is paper, so while every other noob on the team shoots him, you can farm the actually dangerous opponents.
You can't say these things like it is 2016 any more. Tornvagn. K-91, obj 752, bz 68, type 68, Emil 2 and the list goes on.

[terse beacon]

LOL this has to be ragebait, conq is stronger than all the tanks you're naming and the only ones you can even make a case for being better are torn and 752

[solemn olive]

What would be so bad about it having some armor?

[terse beacon]

Gee maybe the fact that it's already top 3 best tanks in its tier and lack of armour being its only actual downside. You give it armour and now downright broken to an obnoxious level. Absolutely horrific take I'm ngl

[solemn olive]

50 120 is a paper heavy too. Maybe it should get some mobility too then. The thing has near the worst camo at its tier.

[glad flower]

Chris_Hisss is not exactly known for good takes

[terse beacon]

Yeah I can see that LMAO

[glad flower]

Though I wouldnt say no to a conq buff because bad players will still sleep on it🥹

[rocky sentinel]

It has reactive armor, can’t be HE penned frontally, has a good gun with ridiculous clipping potential for its tier and is still decently mobile… I don’t think it needs a buff. In fact: Remove reactive and I’d say it’s balanced.

[solemn olive]

Nice strawman bro

[glad flower]

Good argument👍

[terse beacon]

What is the point of this image?

[solemn olive]

Nah I am saying that the 50 120 exists. It has a great gun and paper armor, not unlike the conq. Maybe we should give the conq some speed like that too. It moves nearly like a super heavy and has paper armor

[terse beacon]

💀💀💀💀

[solemn olive]

Well it just shows you facts about your tank you have a personal affection for. It is barely played and when it is it is played very poorly

[glad flower]

You are saying the conqueror doesnt have a great gun?

[solemn olive]

Im saying it is not a tank destroyer

[glad flower]

Nobody said it is

[terse beacon]

?? All this shows is the average winrate, which literally proves absolutely nothing in terms of how strong a tank is. Frankly the only thing you've been proving is you are completely clueless on how to play a conq

[glad flower]

^

[rocky sentinel]

Why are we comparing a single shot with hesh and troll armor to a tank that has a clip and no armor?

[terse beacon]

Why are we comparing a garbage t9 to an op one*

[burnt venture]

Its such a joke though that the side armor on this entire line is screwed over by 3CRB and very poor armor model design. The Conq hull has rear drive wheels modeled as 20mm of primary armor which can get penned at literally any angle even by tier 3s

And the spaced armor decreasing the effectiveness of the side armor makes zero sense but that’s just how the game is coded

[solemn olive]

You do understand what averages mean right? That is underperforming.

[glad flower]

By that logic 183 should be buffed☠️

[solemn olive]

You all do understand this is what leads to tweaking of tank stats right?

[terse beacon]

My guy use some braincells please I'm begging you. Average winrate will show above all else which tanks are easier to use than others. Not which are strongest. Sometimes those two go hand in hand but not always especially when talking about tanks that lack armour

[rocky sentinel]

By that logic the maus should be nerfed because of its high performing average WR. And the WT E100 should be buffed.

[glad flower]

Not sure if ragebait or just lack of comprehension skills

[solemn olive]

I am new ish. I came here trying to understand why the conq doesn't have armor, and you all are resorting to petty insults. It still doesn't make sense how a heavy tank has no armor. It isn't a spg, they trade off everything for a great gun.

[glad flower]

@solemn olive thats pretty much all one needs to know

[terse beacon]

Trying to understand? Brother I have been talking to a wall this entire time wdym you've been trying to understand. It's all been a bunch of nonsense and you keep trying to prove how "weak" the tank is as often as you can. That isn't someone trying to understand anything lmao

[glad flower]

The argument of “low alpha” doesnt really grip as alpha isnt everything and 400 alpha is completely fine, too

[terse beacon]

Honestly tho just keep coping tbh. Last time I played conq and these aren't even very good you can most definitely do a lot better with this tank. Hmmmm yes very much underperforming and in desperate need of buffs the average wr said so

[rocky sentinel]

If you are new or “new ish” you shouldn’t be giving opinions on if a tank unless you are performing well in it outside of Noob MM.

[nimble zodiac]

Broski that’s Ad Hominem, not a strawman 😭 😭
I wouldn’t even really call it Ad Hominem since it’s not necessarily used as an argument

[uneven turtle]

Interesting

[marble willow]

lol

[solemn olive]

Just because you preform well in it, doesn't mean it is a good tank necessarily. You act like the autoloader meta isn't real or something.
This isn't based on performance, mine or anyone's,
It is a strawman because it was an attack at my character in order to distract from the argument regardless of facts.
I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. I was thinking maybe there is more to it and maybe it could be explained. I do have a lot of time on PC, and they reformed these lines like 5 years ago. I don't understand why that hasn't happened here.
I don't see anything really different about this game other than it is much faster games and you can't sit hulldown as often or securely. That and you dont have to dodge arty which if they see something british best believe you are the first to be focused.
Dont repeat yourself, if you have nothing to add move along. No one is forcing you to reply.
I am simply not convinced.

[jaunty ridge]

I don't think you comprehend statistics ngl... High average wr doesn't mean it's OP lol. The distribution of the player base by winrate is pretty tragic, half of them get under 49% wr.

If anything, high average winrate with a large sample size only insinuates the tank has a low skill floor.

Looking at your own screenshots, a significant portion of vehicles on top of that list by average wr are premiums and reward tanks way less people own.

Just because you're newer to the game and are thus unable to play more unforgiving tanks like the conqueror to their full potential, doesn't make them weak in the slightest lmao.

[vapid horizon]

AMX 50 120 definitely deserve atleast a traverse buff, it's like a train at the moment after they nuked it.

[rocky sentinel]

Yeah that would be good for it, I’d also give it 7 degrees of gun depression.

[vapid horizon]

That would be nice too, unfortunate they didnt change AMX 50 100 & AMX 50 120 gun depression angles when they gave them both updated pbr.

[twin egret]

surprised the lorraine 50t has a higher wr lol

[rocky birch]

Buff the Astron Rex its clip reload is to long and does not have enough dmg per shot to even be an average tank. Either give it more dmg per shot or reduce the reload time

[rocky sentinel]

As someone who absolutely loves the Astron Rex, averages 8% more WR then 98% of the tanks on my account, won the most games in a row out of every tank on my account, I can quite comfortably say it’s balanced and good as it is. No autoloader should have high DPS and a fast introclip when it has good armor, small profile, 10 degrees of gun depression, fine mobility, and penetration.

Actually I just checked it is my highest wr tank on my account being over 73%

[rocky birch]

its dpm is only 1700 for a med, caompared to tanks in the tech tree that is not even close to good. To shoot all shots then reload is 29secs. with its average dmg as 290

[vapid horizon]

Its still pretty rare

[solemn olive]

I didn't say anything about how I perform or like it, again. I simply asked why it didnt have more armor. If you disagree by using win rate on average as to how well a tank is performing given its current state, then chat with any number of content creators that use that metric, quickybaby and droodles would be a great place to start, which commonly use that as a metric whether a tank is overperforming or not.
Let me refer you to a model of the pc version of the super conq that was buffed out of that pathetic state many years ago. They also flat out removed the 215b because I guess they didn't want to do what it would take to fix it and invented the super conq to top the line. I have no idea why its a collector tank, and the 215b stayed. I can buy the 215b at some point, but never really been that interested in it. I like I can get it for free however.
To not be able to sidescrape in a t9 heavy just makes me question why not?

[jaunty ridge]

Just because it's a tier 9 heavy doesn't mean it should be able to sidescrape?

I am so confused as to what your actual point is. There are many tier 9 heavies that do not have good armor. Let's not even mention all the heavies that can't sidescrape. Try doing so in a amx 50 120, obj 452k and so on. The conqueror is a glass cannon, and it handsomely rewards those who can make work of the subpar platform. You have the 215b gun at tier 9, what else could you possibly ask for.

Also, blitz and pc are balanced differently. You cannot directly draw some of these comparisons tbh. What's stopping me from wanting 1750 alpha on hesh in my 183 then?

[twin egret]

lol 215b wasn't removed in PC it became a reward/bonds tank

[jaunty ridge]

Funnily enough, the problem with trying to cater to the lowest common denominator in terms of balancing is we end up with situations like the blitz 215b.

That thing did not deserve more armor and dpm, Superunicums were dominating in the 215b.

The average joe that can't properly position a rear turreted platform that has weak trackwheels and a vulnerable fuel tank at the front however, couldn't perform.

The tank wasn't bad. Its skill floor was simply too high for your typical weekender. The same rationale applies to your argument on the conqueror.

[solemn olive]

It was. They did add it back however. Guess all this sounds different if you werent there to see it play out already.

[twin egret]

?

no point was it removed like you said, just moved to the bonds store

[muted rampart]

Well i am sure this one could fit even slightly more. The tank would be so much better with it and since the whole line has gun dep, there is no reason for this one to be an exception

[jaunty ridge]

The official description of the 215b says it all 😭

"It can shine in the hands of few, but feels lackluster UNLESS you've mastered its ins and outs."

Literal skill issue

[muted rampart]

https://tenor.com/view/guy-arguing-guy-talking-to-wall-talking-brick-wall-gif-18667615

[twin egret]

conqueror is pretty strong

[muted rampart]

Not just pretty strong, it's one of the top t9 heavies, it's amazing

[vapid horizon]

It could

[vague fiber]

not strong, its OP asl

[marble willow]

What about the stock version

[slate talon]

fv is literally the bane of its existence if its gets up tiered

[rocky sentinel]

Sooo bad DPM = needs a buff. You lost me there. DPM isn’t the deciding factor of if a tank is good or bad. It’s a collective amount of good of bad that determines if it is good or not. And if this tank had a faster introclip, it would not only out trade 95% of meds but hit 3 times doing half a mediums health.

By that logic the BZT 70 needs a DPM buff.

[rocky birch]

the bzt only needs to shoot one shot to do 900-1300 the astron rex needs to shoot three times before it does 750

and its takes 6sec to unload the clip

[young violet]

7

3.5 sec shell reload

[terse beacon]

Ask literally any top player and they will tell you the exact same thing that I Am, at this point you're just disagreeing for the sake of it. Again just because you personally can't play these tanks doesn't mean they are weak/ in need of buffs. You're talking about a tank that is not only extremely accurate, but has more dpm than most t10s let alone t9, with hesh rounds that pen almost every t8 frontally while also having good mobility on top of that. Armour isn't the be all of everything G

Frankly baffling how a "newish player" gets told by multiple people that conq not only doesn't need buffs but is too strong compared to other t9s and comes up with the conclusion of "nah they're all wrong look at the armour and average wr"

[jaunty ridge]

140 and leo armor buff when?

[terse beacon]

Yeah they def need one asap how else are they supposed to play the game???

[jaunty ridge]

Agreed, if only all players were as good at proposing balance changes as I am right? 😮‍💨

[terse beacon]

Yes especially with any medium or light tank, only the very best at playing them could balance them like this

[glad flower]

😭

[rocky sentinel]

It actually does 870 clipping damage in 7 seconds. But either way, it wouldn’t be balanced. The balance is its low DPM, if it had DPM, armor, mobility, small armor profile, 10 degrees of gun depression, great clipping potential and a fast introclip it would be overpowered. I’d prefer a balance but still really good autoloader than a broken one.

[vapid horizon]

Second largest clip size for a t9 medium and it clips slightly faster than the largest clip.

[rocky birch]

Astron is not a good autoloader. i would rather have less dmg, more dpm, and a reduce reload, then having a good amount dmg, low dpm, and garbage reload..

[rocky sentinel]

Well it is your opinion at this point. And if you want to drive a Astron Rex with all these features it’s called the defender MK 1.

[rocky birch]

i have the mk 1 and its a milion times better but i say it for the poeple who dont have the mk 1

[marble willow]

[rocky sentinel]

I have it as well, the Astron Rex for me is more fun. I rarely play the Defender mk1 since it’s overpowered.

I love that the whole reason why I picked it up was to meme on me having the girl camo… but then I realized the tank was also fun.

[scarlet karma]

if the obj 263 did not have the strip of pennable armor between the superstructure and hull would it become overpowered

[uneven turtle]

To an extent sure

That buff would make it uncounterable to majority of tanks at face hug

Again it’s just face hug so it merely becomes op in that department and nothing else

[muted rampart]

While i don't think it's the buff the tank needs, it wouldn't make it overpowered at all

Imho all 263 needs is better gun handling, that's it. That's the sole and biggest problem of 263

[rocky sentinel]

The gun handling is fine when I drive it.

Yeah, it really doesn’t need an accuracy buff. Idk why you would think so.

263 is great and doesn’t a need a buff or nerf.

Now the jagg on the other hand doesn’t deserve trash base dispersion while the 183 has better base dispersion then it ever should have with a larger gun.

[jagged crown]

it need a faster intraclip thats all maybe 3.0 instead of 3.5

[rocky sentinel]

It really doesn’t.

When it has: armor, gun depression, mobility, small profile, 870 clipping potential, 290 DPS, fine accuracy, and decent pen values, it doesn’t need more.

Autoloaders should be able to punish bad plays like someone yoloing in the open, but not so fast that they don’t get a chance to back up before I take off more then half their HP pool. What Autoloaders shouldn’t do is such high damage in such a short amount of time. Even if it only pens two shots it’s still as much damage as a borsing.

[unkempt sorrel]

Foch (tier 9 foch) Proposal: add 1 shell on the autoloader, 2.73s (2.50s prev.) intraclip and 25.80s (16.30s prev.) 2.303 base DMP and around 2.541 max DMP. now the current tank has a "brawling" base with a double shot autoloader, wich is not bad, dont get me wrong, but a tank that has no turret at tier 9, it just doesnt feel comfy enough, yes it has armor but both cupolas are always grey for everyone, so why only 2 shots instead of 3? and also why the AMX AC 48 does not get any autoloader??

[deep pewter]

buff all tier 9 without turret then 🤣

[unkempt sorrel]

you didnt get anything bro

[uneven turtle]

I think you’re forgetting that 800 in 2.5 seconds with good pen and mobility and good gun handling is already pretty ridiculous for a tank that can get matched up against t8s

Also 800 in 2.5 seconds is actually also pretty good in t10

Are you saying you want foch to gain the ability to 1 clip t8 lts while having the capability to leave t8 mts on ~200 hp?

That’s some pretty interesting incentive to yolo there

Foch is already is a very good and usable state

Should add that you get more gun arc freedom than the t10

[unkempt sorrel]

yeah it is, 50 100 has a 930 tho, my proposal is aiming at a different playstyle, that might seem even broken but i swear is not, the 50 120 is able to do a similar think already

[uneven turtle]

Is the clip all you can see

[unkempt sorrel]

i know im ignoring everything else, but i just cant write everything here

[uneven turtle]

You can actually

5000 letter capacity so take your time

[muted rampart]

Tbh what he proposed would make foch worse, not better.

25s reload is very bad for a tank that can't reliably get the entire clip out.

You will often fire once or twice and then still have to reload 25s while wasting a lot of damage potential

[uneven turtle]

When it gets uptiered it probably might perform worse

But when it gets downtiered, it’s clip becomes way more impactful, if you can full clip whole light/td, leave a mt as a one shot, or cripple a ht down to 600~800hp, it becomes pretty unfair

[muted rampart]

Amx 50 120 can already do that with much more flexibility and HP to take shots and it's considered to be one of the worst t9s in the game.

1200 clip is not outrageous for T9 as long as it's balanced out properly. It doesn't suit foch at all tho.

[uneven turtle]

Way bigger + overall less mobile + essentially no armor all around

[muted rampart]

Still, it has much better chances of actually getting the entire clip out.

What matters the most for a high capacity autoloader is ability to be exposed for prolonged time which is inevitable and flexibility so the enemy can't just prevent you from firing by simple maneuvers.

Foch is like the exact antithesis to that. Amx 50 120 is far from perfect, but it's still much more suitable for such a gun than foch

[uneven turtle]

I suppose you’re right, but I firmly think that this change would turn the foch into a yolo prone tank especially if it gets downtiered since it gets tungsten and ssb, has a pretty low profile and surprisingly nimble, so more likely than not you won’t see it coming till it’s already on your flank

And more than enough frontal protection against t8s that the only way they can pen is through your hatch and small lower plate while you can comfortably pen majority of t8s frontally

So I guess this change would kind of be a double edged one? In that it’d hurt or benefit the gameplay of foch heavily in accordance to it getting uptiered or down tiered

Instead of the current state where it’s pretty decent in t10 and already great against t8s

[rocky sentinel]

Two shots instead of 3? Probably because 3 shots would be to much. Sounds like a change that would further add to the cringe autoloader meta. And 1200(not adding tungsten so more like 1320) damage in 5.4 some seconds would be absolutely broken. It already does 930 damage with tungsten in 2.5 seconds, ridiculous mobility, fine accuracy, and armor. Plus if it isn’t “comfy” why don’t you say something like “buff the side armor”?

Can we just, not buff any autoloaders?

[next elbow]

my stance is this: the advantage of burst damage that autoloaders have comes into play when trading shots or making plays based on enemy reload. autoloaders should not have an advantage over single shots when an enemy is caught out in the open. This is why i believe 3 secs should be the minimum intraclip for most autoloaders, with 3.5-5 seconds being more normalized.

its enough time to out-trade most single shots, but long enough that most enemies can get back into cover before getting hit a second time

i wouldve mentioned the erich and 752 as examples but im sure we already know why thats not a good example of autoloader balance

[rocky sentinel]

Exactly, autoloaders should punish players who yolo or make trash players. But I say autoloaders should be more like the M IV Y, where they out reload single shots but not to much so that they can track enemy’s in the open. But yes, 5 seconds would definitely be a good move towards balance ^_^

[clear shuttle]

be careful, it might make a tank like the murat unplayable if the intra is changed to 5 seconds like what a certain someone complained about yesterday

[vapid horizon]

I dont know why people have suddenly decided autoloaders and how they have existed in-game for nearly the past decade are suddenly a massive issue.

Yeah its not fun to have 3/4 of both teams be autoloaders, but thats more of an issue of WG just continuing to add more. Best thing would probably be to simply reverse the intraclip buffs many autoloaders have recieved.

[muted rampart]

It will not be unplayable if you balance it out correctly. No one ever said anything about just bumping it up to 4-5s and letting it rot

Although I would love to see stuff like 183, concept 1b, Murat and Yoh at the bottom of the bottom of popularity list rotting in hell, if their toxic factors are gotten rid off that's enough

[scarlet yarrow]

give the Type 5 more 3200 hp or more armor, its armor is useless

[odd remnant]

💀

800 alpha wasn't enough for this guy, he needs more armor 🗣️

[scenic hazel]

They are adding better armored tech tree for a reason bud

[scarlet yarrow]

that means nothing it still needs a buff

[scenic hazel]

Whats the point of tech tree if type 5 has same level of armor

[scarlet yarrow]

i dont care the armor on the Type NEEDS a buff

your mom needs a buff

nah, she's WAY too weak

[marble willow]

Goofy ahh chat

[proven vector]

What is happening

[uneven turtle]

Bullet sponge tank btw

[grave vault]

Why don't we talk about Maus first before Type 5.

Type 5 does not need any buff, Maus does.

[uneven turtle]

Maus works pretty wonderfully

Personal experience so there’s bias involved, but so far it’s been amazing at being a bullet sponge that can also block damage

[grave vault]

I mean I'd say we give it more front-turret armor. Those cheeks.

[uneven turtle]

Just angle😌

and even if you get penned while angling, that usually means the opp has to have used prammo, which means ur still filling your role of being an effective damage sponge by forcing the enemy to reduce their effective dpm on your already large hp pool

Maus shouldn’t be unpennable, but it’s currently able to still block even the average pen prammo when well angled

[grave plinth]

Make all tanks autoreloader

[silk dawn]

E-100 should get his old front armour again like back in 2014-16

[terse beacon]

E100 had worse armour in 2016

[uneven turtle]

I don’t see how this is bad by any means

[marble willow]

Slap on the harvester camo and itll look more ambiguous with ap

[wintry spruce]

The problem is not the armor...the problem are calibrated shells that gives many Tanks TD pen values...they can just pen the upper plate especially with HEAT rounds 🙁

[uneven turtle]

The only time ur penning the frontal plate of a maus is if u have high prammo pen and the maus is facing you directly

[wintry spruce]

It dont need to facehug you directly. HEAT does not lose its pen value on distance. Its already enough to be in a slightly higher position in some distance.

[uneven turtle]

As you can see from this image @wintry spruce, if the maus knows how to angle, you’re not penning its ufp even with 390 heat

[wintry spruce]

Maybe not but you will find different weakspots without issues

[uneven turtle]

The problem doesn’t lie with the maus, but with the users themselves

Also while it’s fair that you point out the fact that maus still has weak points regardless, you’re forgetting its role of a high hp bullet sponge, it being able to block shots is just a bonus, it’s real appeal is being able to eat a lot of damage

If only prammo can cut thru its armor, then it’s doing its job even better as it’s reducing the effective dpm of opposing tanks therefore increasing the duration of how long it can last

[wintry spruce]

Nah I dont forgot its role. Every tank has its own weakspots and iam totally fine with that, but it feels just not right that some tanks can just run TD pen values with calis and literaly ignore the armor of HT @uneven turtle

[sullen copper]

Obj. 752 with 384mm penetration is the prime example of that.
Seriously, just nerf the base HEAT penetration from 340 to 310 and nerf the reload time by approximately 3 seconds and that thing will be fine.

[muted rampart]

That won't do anything.

You just need to remove calibrated all together, the buffs are just way too high at higher tiers

[sullen copper]

If i know WG, they would much rather to nerf a tank than removing a piece of equipment all together.
But let's be realistic. Neither of those options are going to happen.
752 is the cow in the meme where the guy walks towards the cow while saying "good morning sunshine" and holding bunch of buckets.

[muted rampart]

Tbh i think removing cali is more likely.

It's broken by design and should have never been added into the game.

Penetration and armor in this game do not scale linearily with tiers, so what might be a reasonable buff at lower tiers turns into insane game breaking bonus at higher tiers.

Also armor is designed to work against certain fixed amounts of pen, so neither that nor penetration values should be possible to modify with equipment. It just breaks the whole thing.

[wintry spruce]

I mean they nerfed gun rammer so why shouldnt they just nerf calis?

[sullen copper]

Exactly. They need to just straight up nerf it rather than removing it all together.
Also, nerfing gun rammer while buffing vents was one of the decisions of the century for sure.
Because autoloaders need more dpm, ofc.

[wintry spruce]

This 2-Shot Autoloader and Reloadermeta is so toxic rn

[sullen copper]

I think reverting it back to its original values would be enough. Upping HEAT and AP made no sense and also created a clear imbalance between shell types.
APCR is objectively worse than HEAT currently. Which makes zero sense

[muted rampart]

By original values you mean pre recent rework a.k.a 5/5/10/10 for AP/APCR/HEAT/HE or OG values of 5% for everything?

(When cali was first added it only gave +5% to all types of shells)

[sullen copper]

OG values. If you give %10 for heat, that still would be a problem as there are tons of tier Xs that use HEAT as preammo

[muted rampart]

Tbh i think 5/5/5/10 would be most fair.

With 10 being for HE only. As HE usually has little pen and whatever has high HE pen usually relies on it very hard i think it deserves a slightly higher bonus

[sullen copper]

Yeah, that would cut it.

[sullen copper]

First we had reactive armor meta. Now autoloader meta.
What is next? 183 meta?

[wintry spruce]

Spawncamping BZT Players

[muted rampart]

We already had that years ago, thankfully it's gone

[sullen copper]

Ngl I would rather a 183 meta rather than something like prime Type 71 meta.

[wintry spruce]

Let's hope that Anni, Smasher & 752 get nerfed someday so that nobody has any arguments left to say that there are better tanks than the Tiger 1 & IS-8 at their tiers. 😅

[muted rampart]

🤮

[sullen copper]

I mean Type 71 meta was something else.
I don't think I hated that one more than anything.
I remember people were running seven Type 71s

[muted rampart]

To be perfectly honest 116F3/Felice meta is not much better than Type. Both are nearly just as annoying.

And at least Type was available to everyone, if you didn't buy 116 or Felice you are screwed now

[wintry spruce]

I miss those times when singleshot tanks were meta...

[uneven turtle]

I mean 215B is about as close as you can get to single shot meta rn if u ask me

Pretty much a tank that has everything

[sullen copper]

Don't forget 53tp and t77 too

[wintry spruce]

215b has always been a beast 🙂

[arctic python]

there was 113gft meta at some point too

[wintry spruce]

Would like to see Cent AX as FV4202 alternative one day as tech tree like 140 & T-62A (so you may be able to research both)

[arctic python]

is t54e2 no longer the meta heavy for t8 tourneys?

[frail mulch]

Please reduce the tank's stat spread to 10%; currently, there's a very large spread when hitting, aiming, and dealing maximum damage.

[sullen copper]

Bisonte took its spot.
Also 53tp has always been the one to go since like, forever

[arctic python]

oh okay

[wintry spruce]

I think 53TP is everything you need. Some players might argue that the buffed IS-5 should be counted aswell.

[sullen copper]

It is hilarious how WG just overbuffed Bisonte and it completely threw T54E2 into bin.
That thing has best dpm among in all t8 heavies and a turret that has no weakspot unlike T54E2

[wintry spruce]

+1

[glad flower]

omg hiiii TraX

[sullen copper]

Eloooo

[glad flower]

how are you? Its been a minute :D

[sullen copper]

Suffering as I am marking Annihilator.
What about ya

[wintry spruce]

marking Anni💀

[muted rampart]

25% is fine for damage, penetration's spread is only 5%. As for accuracy it depends on the tank which is fine

[glad flower]

Not suffering at all as I dont play blitz ;3

[sullen copper]

Wise choice.
I shall do the same once reforged drops

[muted rampart]

Besides Caernarvon which is also a beast

[glad flower]

time to change name to "TraX won't touch reforged"

[sullen copper]

If it only had more turret armor

[muted rampart]

Tbh as much as UT1 was horrible, reforged now barely changes anything, stop dramatizing over literally nothing

Graphics, sets and physics are pretty much only things left

[sullen copper]

Nah. I am not a huge fan of the removal of provisions or upcoming t11.
Also my pc cant handle that thing at all

[muted rampart]

Your PC can't handle it? What is your PC. My PC with GTX 1050 (an over 10yo hardware) can run it quite well

[sullen copper]

HD Graphics 5000

[wintry spruce]

I hope they make low tiers (basicly everything below T9) attractive again in reforged. Would like to play Hetzer with 105mm gun again 😈

[glad flower]

https://tenor.com/view/jgmm-cat-meme-ragebait-cat-think-cat-ponder-gif-7034802297606826390

[muted rampart]

Um tbh you shouldn't expect to run any game with such specs

Maybe like minesweeper tops

[sullen copper]

Give T82 its derp gun back

[glad flower]

QoL changes? from wargaming? I thought you knew better, Temon

[muted rampart]

T82 does get the derp back in reforged

[sullen copper]

Huh? That's interesting.

[wintry spruce]

I dont give up my hopes 😅

[muted rampart]

Hetzer is a proper T4 so not happening, but you can expect Legacy tier tanks to be better. They are still far from fun to play, but much better than what we have now

[glad flower]

Die Hoffnung stirbt zuletzt aber sie stirbt

[wintry spruce]

uff 🙁

[glad flower]

😔

[muted rampart]

I wouldn't really call it fun to play just yet, tanks have too much HP and for whatever reason they made traverse on all TDs abysmall but it's a step in right direction

[sullen copper]

It can run current wotb on 60fps quite stable.
Reforged is going to take that from me.
So, nah

[muted rampart]

Current wotb is running on a 15 yo engine. But it will change now. It has to change.

The problem is you no longer have devs for such old software because all of them moved on. You can't hire people to develop the game. WG also lost most of their long term employees in EU/RU server split.

Engine change was literally inevitable, whether it is now or in a year or two. It's only other reforged stuff like sets that were optional and could be changed.

[glad flower]

"because all of them moved on. "

no.

[sullen copper]

Yeah all the people who knew the current engine well enough stayed on Russia then moved to LESTA

[muted rampart]

Yes. Try finding a dev for DAVA engine now. It's like finding a needle in a haystack.

Even if you can find one, such old software still hinders the development

[glad flower]

no correlation whatsoever

[muted rampart]

It's literally the main reason for the change of engine.

There are very little dava devs left and even if you somehow manage to find a few they will be much more expensive to hire.

WG could do reforged without sets and whatnot, but change to another engine like Unity or UE5 was absolutely inevitable.

[arctic python]

good god I hate the 116f3 players in randoms

[glad flower]

you cant "find" devs that are familiar with DAVA because it is WGs in-house engine

Also, just to add, UE5 is a terrible engine

much better would be WG developing their own engine though that is expensive and takes lots of time

[sullen copper]

Issue is UE5 is extremely heavy for a mobile game.
Even tencent when they created pubg mobile, they had to create another engine within ue just to get the optimization done.
WG had neither enough people nor the budget to do something like that.
Unity would be much better. Yes, graphics maybe would not look as how they do with ue5 but it would be much better in terms of optimization

[glad flower]

how about we dont name and shame here (also this is tank balance discussion)

[muted rampart]

You just answered yourself why they moved to UE5.

[arctic python]

lol no, what a horrid take.
WG made a good decision moving away from DAVA.

[glad flower]

Except I never asked myself why the move away from DAVA, I am aware its an old engine and very limited but UE5 is just not a good engine for a mobile game where a majority of players play on a low-end device

reading comprehension?

[arctic python]

UE5 is a fine choice. It IMO makes the most sense for the game moving forward. I imagine WG's dev team, which knows more about their needs than any of you, did consider other options.

[muted rampart]

It was either UE 5 or Unity.

Why they chose UE 5? That's not for us to speculate about, they probably had their reasons.

I assume that they started reforged development around the massive Unity controversy which could have potentially affected their final call.

[glad flower]

yea it was a good decision to not go with unity but again, developing their own engine which suits exactly to their needs is obviously, if we dont take money or time into consideration, the much better choice. Now, we do not know since when reforged and therefore the engine-switch is planned as well as we have no Idea what the financial plan in relation to this is but for now the feedback WG has been getting in relation to reforged is overwhelmingly negative. While it has gotten better as they shared future plans and adjusted the UT's it is still quite negative. Kind of reminds me the way supercell is developing clash royale ;)

[muted rampart]

Tbh i believe many people just hate on it for the purpose of hating on it. Or don't even understand the purpose at all.

Like sorry, but i can't trust on the opinion of someone like that:

[glad flower]

Well I am quite fond of the fact that this person may as well be just trolling but lots of "hate" as you call it, is indeed very random. For me personally blitz is just not super entertaining in its current state either and reforged doesnt change that. We had very little interesting new content in the past couple of years, surely because the devs spent a great amount of time on reforged but it still is just stale for me. I have gotten every techtree (on 2 accounts) except the AC line (because I stopped playing) as well as most premiums/collectors that are relevant. Looking at reforgeds new, wacky physics, the tech tree being changed into sets (though I dont really care about such) and other questionable changes (removing xp for upgrades, instead costing 3 million credits to buy top hardware on a tier 9 vehicle as an example) just makes me wonder what changes for the worse in the future. While the credits dont bother me there are plenty of players, as always proven by this server's members, that are so low on credits they dont buy prammo, no equipment as well as no camo - which, is automatically bad for the game as they are handicapping themselves, purely, because they lack credits

[muted rampart]

Tbh credit earnings in reforged are much higher so it should offset the higher demand with new system

[terse beacon]

Whining because average players exist crazy stuff bro

[deep pewter]

Yep, cash royale is insanely p2w but still super popular, people cry about reforged but they will keep playing anyway.

[glad flower]

Clash royale revenue went down from 74M USD to 18M USD in 7 months.

[cinder shard]

If you want to shame players, please make sure to blank out the names.

For the others; this is a channel about tank balance, not CR or why the game is transitioning to UE5.
Please stick to the topics.

[muted rampart]

Sadly WG isn't nearly as transparent with their revenue so we don't know the numbers

Wotb was pretty stably sitting at around 1m unqiue players each month in late 2025/early 2026 i wonder how it does now

[deep pewter]

still, its super popular

[glad flower]

💀

[arctic python]

blitz hasn't been P2W and I don't see this changing with reforged

[deep pewter]

i'm talking about people complaining a lot in those games but still keep playing, different reason to complain but still.

[primal yacht]

✅ .m0narch_101 was banned.

[random flume]

Buff the Defender MK 1

Defender Mk. 1 Buff Proposals
Average Damage: 190 230
Intra-clip Reload: 2.0s 1.6s
Clip Reload: 15.76s 14.50s
Top Speed: 46 km/h 52 km/h
Reverse Speed: 20 km/h 22 km/h
Aim Time: 2.5s 2.1s
Upper Glacis Armor: 76mm 100mm
Cupola Size 15% reduction in collision volume Clip Reload 15.76s 14.50s

[jaunty ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/tom-and-jerry-jerry-laughing-3amskypecall-gif-1225091949170588240

[fringe egret]

Bro is just saying things and thinking we'd hear him out

[prisma jetty]

Why

[muted rampart]

https://tenor.com/view/patrick-drooling-patrick-star-spongebob-movie-drooling-slime-gif-525340425450564005

[cosmic saddle]

thats not going to happen

[keen flame]

Can we pls have in the next update a buff to bzt 70 ammo rack because it way too easily to ammo rack it

[slate talon]

https://tenor.com/view/ragebait-or-low-iq-call-it-rage-bait-ragebait-low-iq-call-it-gif-11418983585207187263

[scarlet karma]

I think we can move it to tier 9 with those stats

[remote pawn]

this HAS to be ragebait
What are you on about ❓❓
Mk.1 is already good for its Tier

[remote pawn]

<@&481447501690568709> get this chud out of here

[wary saddle]

Companion😭

[sour rampart]

Should tiger maus turret got buff??? I mean 180ton of weight but turret so weak can't angle like a maus ..I don't know I always got jump in tier x room and can't bounce their shot

Armor isn't match as the weight

[vapid horizon]

Buffing vents was a good change ngl, better than every autoloader running cali

[glad flower]

Are we talking straight from our butts now or?

[remote pawn]

Yapping for the sake of yapping

[glad flower]

How about we buff fv215b instead?!?!?!?!

[muted rampart]

Nah let's buff Bisonte and Grom. Also while we are at it, let's give Annihilator a boost as well

[glad flower]

And in order to avoid the smasher being overshadowed we should buff its HEAT penetration values as well as decrease the dispersion by about 10%

[muted rampart]

What about Forest Witch then? It will become unplayable 🥀

[glad flower]

Just add another shell and buff armour values

[muted rampart]

Don't forget to give T29 additional 50mm of turret armor

[glad flower]

Just copy paste t29 from wotpc

[muted rampart]

Also let's halve the reload on 116F3, it's horrible DPM makes it uncompetitive

[glad flower]

True, it underperforms so bad

[leaden ember]

Can we disscus about things in reforged here?
If so, can we talk about why they made ammo infinite?
I understand that it's for simplicity sake, but who exactly ever ran out of standard ammunition unless they intentionally shoot after each reload.

[muted rampart]

Yeah i haven't seen one used in competitive play in ages

[glad flower]

#reforged-update-discussion

[leaden ember]

Thanks.

[glad flower]

Np

[leaden ember]

That's madness.
At this point make it a tier 9 if you want it to get this good of a buff

[leaden ember]

I'm pretty sure you can't even run wotb on windows visita to begin with

[terse cairn]

He was clearly ragebaiting

[tardy wharf]

Lol

[surreal violet]

wdym buffing tiger maus its already good

[sour rampart]

Do you have it?

[lilac crest]

I think I agree with him I mean....as 180 ton tank turret can be more thicker than the mäuschën not like this can't even angle more than 20degree against some high penetration even against another tiger maus itself like he said the armor isn't match as the weight pc Tiger-maus can get 300mm front turret so why in blitz he can't get like 260 or 270

[cinder shard]

To be fair, the tank already has some pretty amazing armor by itself.
You've got to keep in mind that it's a T9 that can face T8 tanks that are more or less helpless against it.
If properly played, you can still get a lot of bounces, especially because of the armor on the hull.

Ok top of that, it has a lot of dpm and pretty neat gun handling

The only thing it doesn't have is mobility

[marble willow]

I lub the tiger maus

[wheat quest]

I really pissed off a Tiger Maus player earlier in my conq bc I kept penning his cheeks and tbf its wayyyyy too weak

[twin egret]

Even has stronger sides than the maus arguably

[nimble zodiac]

Maus has a 1mm advantage (raw, but since the Maus has 136mm covered by 25mm and Tiger-Maus has 130mm covered by 30mm, Maus gets more effective armor since track armor effectiveness doesn't scale with angle)

[scarlet yarrow]

give the Erich Koncept 1 shell reload boost, (not that it needs it, i just want it to be as rat as possible)

[marble willow]

Its a doubleshot bro

1000 intraclip double shot should never get shell reload boost. Esp on a mobile t9

[fossil marten]

Prowler needs an armour nerf

[muted rampart]

That's just a poorly aimed shot

While it technically shows gray on armor highlight, common sense should tell you not to fire at such an angled surface with AP/APCR

[fossil marten]

😂 I thought someone would take it seriously. It’s sarcasm. If you look there’s a very thin strip of red in the centre of the turret in the first picture, that’s what the shell hit and bounced off. It’s just bad luck/rng.

If you check it on Blitzkit the roof is 35mm, but the thin ‘strip’ is probably the edge of the edge of the hatch.

[signal dagger]

The angle of your shot triggered an auto ricochet. This is happening when you shoot an angle more than 70% when shooting AP/APCR

[fossil marten]

Does that over rule the 3 x rule?

[fossil marten]

Should have penned, 122mm AP round fired at 35mm of roof armour. It bounced because of the thin strip of armour highlighted in the picture.

[signal dagger]

Your caliber on a K-2 does not make the 3X rule happen

[fossil marten]

Really? 35mm x 3 is 105mm and the K2 has a 122mm 🤷🏻‍♂️

[vapid horizon]

Chatgpt 🤣

[signal dagger]

What about the 80mm that I see

[fossil marten]

That’s the strip of armour on the edge of the hatch.

[fossil marten]

What’s incorrect about what it says? Please 🙏

[signal dagger]

Could have the shot hit that position of the roof on the prowler?

[fossil marten]

Yes. That’s what happened, hence I posted the sarcastic first post, but clearly that got lost in translation. Never mind.

[signal dagger]

Sorry for not catching the hint of sarcasm. Yet again the game mechanics sometimes make no sense like the ghost shell that has been in game for so long.

[vapid horizon]

There was a time when we didnt rely on large language models for evidence

[fossil marten]

Understood 👍

[fossil marten]

True, but the sources it quotes are WG and it’s easier to use than hunting for it anywhere else. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[prisma jetty]

3CR isn’t an automatic penetration in blitz, it just means that the shell will never ricochet

[primal yacht]

✅ dpska.699 was banned.

[fossil marten]

So what can happen to it? Either penetrate or bounce off, which isn’t classed as a ricochet?

[prisma jetty]

It either penetrates or it doesn’t

[nimble zodiac]

Just imagine the shell crumpling into the armor and doing nothing when it doesn’t pen. Wouldn’t be a ricochet

[muted rampart]

Technically it's not a ricochet, but in blitz it really barely makes a difference.

The only difference is that in blitz a ricochet can damage another enemy if it hits him, while a simple non penetrating shot has no chance of doing so.

[unreal fox]

Fix Sheridan so that he doesn’t clip into textures in game modes.

[nimble zodiac]

It’s an important distinction not just for whether the shot despawns or not, but determining what passing 3CR really means. Because of the wording “the shell will not ricochet,” people think that it’s an auto-pen, which isn’t the case. We can just say it didn’t ricochet, but didn’t penetrate. I like to call those cases bounces, though it may confuse people

[remote oriole]

And this is why AI is unreliable

[twilit drift]

Thigh

[scenic stone]

You were probably lower than you think and it kinda just went nowhere after hitting the pixel rather than into the roof. Your best bet is uploading the replay to armor inspector and seeing the exact angle

[tame gorge]

Ggbj

[ionic kraken]

Give the BZT some functional armor and normal reverse speed, just for the love of christ, do SOMETHING about the utter trash you try to scam people with.

That, or do something about the brain numbing 4005s being able to tank HE shots they shouldn't be capable of tanking, then dishing out 1200 in two shots on one person. A 1200 damage HE shell SHOULDN'T leave a 1000 hp 4005 alive after doing only 900 thanks to the cheap crutch

[muted rampart]

While i absolutely agree that spall liner should be removed, buffing BZT is absolutely out of question.

You knew what you are buying. This tank was never suposed to be competitive and it's perfect as is.

[ionic kraken]

PC BZT has actual armor that lets it SURVIVE long enough to shoot again and not get focused down like the fattest pig on the ranch for butchering. Why the hell does it have the stats of a tier 8 tank at tier 10?? Where is it's 300mm of hull and turret armor?

[muted rampart]

PC BZT doesn't get over 1200 alpha HESH and please let's not compare these 2 games as they are very different from each other.

You can't have 183 levels of alpha and then expect the tank to be competitive. It's either one or another.

BZT is a meme tank, accept it as such.

If you want better stats, cut the alpha in half and then we can talk about potentially better armor, mobility, accuracy and DPM

[ionic kraken]

For a supposed "Fun" tank, it's NOT fun when you are automatically the easiest target on sight. Fat, 2400 hp, no reverse speed or armor, this thing is just a great way to waste money on nothing.

That alpha is also pretty useless when all other stats are so trash, it can't even make use of it 90% of the time.

Best comparison is the Caliban, but the Caliban actually faces tanks it could sometimes one-shot with HE, it's gun is just better tier for tier, it's quick enough to duck back into cover after firing so armor isn't necessary AND it's small so it isn't so easy to hit crossmap

[muted rampart]

If you don't enjoy shooting people for 1000+ damage enough to compensate for other flaws, it's just not a tank for you. Don't play it.

Also, caliban pretty much doesn't face tanks it can one shot, the closest are T7 TDs with around 1000 HP, but even then it requires a massive high roll.

You can argue that BZT can do the same thing wtih some low HP T9 TDs with a high enough high roll.

Also, caliban's gun is straight up horrendous i have absolutely no idea what are you talking about here.

Again, you knew what you were buying.

No one wants a tank with 1200 alpha to be competitive, we already had that with 183 a few times, whenever it happened the T10 was absolutely miserable to play.

[ionic kraken]

Lesta tier XI BZT is what it should be like: High alpha armored heavy, with slow everything. Hell, just give it better reverse speed and more hp to trade, it'll be more than enough

[muted rampart]

Do not compare these 2 games, they are way too different for that. What works out well on Russian server on PC, may not and i am sure in this case will not work in blitz.

[ionic kraken]

I am not saying it should be EXACTLY like the lesta version, just a comparison of what it SHOULD be like.

[muted rampart]

Depends what you mean by high alpha.

If you reduce it to some still high, but reasonable numbers like 600ish AP and 800ish HE i can absolutely agree with you.

But for as long as it gets 1200+ alpha on a high penetrating shell it should and probably will remain garbage.

[ionic kraken]

All I am saying, give it a bit more hp and some reverse speed, that'll be more than enough.

Or an alternative solution, nerf the 183 even more so it wouldn't be the "better alternative"

[muted rampart]

183 is not even a better alternative, both tanks are just as bad.

183 gets better gun with quicker reload, more pen and more accuracy, but gets much less HP, worse armor overall and doesn't have fully rotating turret which is a massive downside.

I will say it once again, if you don't like meme tanks, don't play BZT.

Just because you don't do well in it, doesn't mean it needs a buff.

[ionic kraken]

250mm is not a lot of pen, hesh shells even less. Besides, the RNG on it's AP shells is somehow worse, cuz it can average 910, high roll to 1100~, but low roll as bad as 680 (SAME AS 60TP), -300 on the lower end, only 200 on the higher end

[jaunty ridge]

The humble bz75 chilling in the corner 🥀

[muted rampart]

As long as it can pen many tanks frontally it is a lot of pen.

By saying "high penetration rounds" i meant anything that isn't 80 pen HE.

And no, RNG is not worse, RNG is as the name suggests, random. You can roll up to 25% more or less damage with any shell.

[ionic kraken]

BZ-75 has two gun choices

[jaunty ridge]

The current bzt isn't strong, but it's fine. I love this thing regardless

[ionic kraken]

Sure as crap doesn't feel like 25%, more like 30% less 20% more

[jaunty ridge]

In all fairness... 1k hesh is still pretty busted

[ionic kraken]

You can't deny that even something as small as a reverse speed buff wouldn't be a major improvement

[muted rampart]

Whatever you "feel" is meaningless here, you can do your own calculations with a calculator.

Damage RNG is the same for all tanks in the game.

[jaunty ridge]

You do understand that making the vehicle easier to play will just make the average 50%er get away with more stupid plays right...

[ionic kraken]

Alright, final verdict, just buff the reverse speed on the BZT, let me get back into some damn cover after firing, instead of crawling like a wounded soldier

[muted rampart]

You can wish for that i guess, but let's be real, it's not happening

[jaunty ridge]

Reverse speed is higher if you're rolling down a hill 🙏

[ionic kraken]

Unless they do a major equipment overhaul, more similar to PC WoT with all the different "setups" and "loadouts", so you can technically "buff" your stats selectively

Honestly, would like that more than the current way equipment has been for a while... Anything to remove calibrated shells 🥀

[muted rampart]

They are not changing equipment in reforged (besides some bonus adjustments) and the last time they overhauled entire equipment system was in update 3.5 like 9 years ago at this point.

I wouldn't expect that to happen anytime soon

[ionic kraken]

You never know, cuz nobody asked for reforged update at first, only for them to randomly drop that diarrhea bomb at first and call it a "game improvement", delaying in multiple years due to backlash.

So I'm saying, they might pull another big spontaneous change after reforged or something along those lines and since like you said, equipment hasn't been touched for 9 years, next year might be an equipment overhaul, who knows 🤷‍♂️

[muted rampart]

Well if they do so, then they do so.

But that's nothing more than wishful thinking at this point.

[ionic kraken]

Yea, first gotta see if the game and the community survives reforged

Would be funny if it fails massively and they have to undo everything anyway

[twin egret]

surprise surprise ppl will tunnel the tank that will 100% ruin their game if they receive a penetrating shot until it's no longer a threat to them lol

[ionic kraken]

Can't do it to the 183 that's hidden in the back ofc

[nimble zodiac]

Use rock

[vapid horizon]

Just an idea, what if the AP shell was removed

[muted rampart]

Hard to say, i proposed something like that a few years ago for 183, but since we have never had a tank like that no one really knows

[vapid horizon]

T49 is kind of like it in a way, but I think it could be interesting to see BZT have the ability to reliably do damage with an AP shell taken away. Maybe it could justify other aspects not being as awful as they are.

[muted rampart]

T49 isn't like that, because it has moblity to flank so it doesn't fully rely on splash.

Bzt in such scenario would be forced so splash with HE like 80% of the time

[vapid horizon]

Was the closest possible example I could think of

[muted rampart]

It's closest, but not close enough.

So it's hard to say how it would perform.

It would be decent against things it could pen with HESH like most meds and light TDs or things that are easily splashed like Maus, E100, FV215b, but it would be absolutely horrendous against heavy vehicles that can't be easily splashed like 60TP, chinese TD and alike

[vapid horizon]

Would be worth experimenting with

The Lesta Lorraine 50t looks interesting, to say the least.

[muted rampart]

Does it? Imo it looks just as mid as ours

[vapid horizon]

Its strange. It has very decent soft stats though & way better mobility due to the type 71 equipment.

[hallow sphinx]

Nerf Tornvagn, this thing has no reason to be that strong

[signal dagger]

Why? The gun too strong, armor too strong? Please explain why you think the Tornvagn needs a nerf.

[hallow sphinx]

both armor and gun are very strong, but the armor is way too good, especially in turret

[signal dagger]

Well, I know the turret is 320 mm thick which makes the turret impenetrable with only a few tanks that can penetrate it

[hallow sphinx]

even if it's slightly angled it's 400mm

[signal dagger]

Try ten degrees of gun depression, top of the turret is over 900

[hallow sphinx]

mid plate is 278mm which to pen for most tanks they need premium to cut through

[signal dagger]

Well the tank was rebalanced when it got moved to tier 9 but the change made the tank more stronger than what it was in tier 8 (I am talking about the tanks its up against not the paper stats)

[hallow sphinx]

the tank is still overpowered in game, hide lowerplates and just shoot without worry, especially if it's fighting t8

[signal dagger]

Yep and that’s probably why the tank was moved to tier 9 to prevent the tier 7 to face the beast

[hallow sphinx]

except they made it way too OP so now the tier 8 tanks have to be the suffering ones

[signal dagger]

And tier 10 lol

[marble willow]

They decided to give it an autoreloader AND buff the dps which is insane to me

[terse cairn]

Even the concept 1b has weaker hull

[muted rampart]

That's for y'all talking about tornvagn

[grave plinth]

Any wz113 changes🤔

[hallow sphinx]

imagine they decide to ragebait us and buff it again

[muted rampart]

Nah they ain't that mean

[marble willow]

Why would they even think of buffing it again

[ionic kraken]

Sheridan and T92 are toxic, they should have accuracy nerfs for their big guns, remove their apcr shells and leave them with low pen heat and HE, same as T49, with the alternative small guns getting other buffs that are equal to other lights of their tiers.

Nothing should be able to move 60km/h around the map, capable of outspotting you and accurately shooting you for over 600 damage a piece.

[muted rampart]

Says the person who asked for BZT buff...

[ionic kraken]

Hey, if big gun supposed to be impractical and slow, then why does sheridan have a consistently accurate big gun on a fast frame?

[nimble zodiac]

Because it has no chance of bouncing (if the enemy isn't garbage) and no HP

[muted rampart]

I don't really disagree with sheridan being annoying, but i am just pointing out hypocrisy here.

Also it's funny to hear you describe sheridan's gun as "big". I believe there is quite a bit of a difference between 570 alpha and over 1200 alpha

[jaunty ridge]

Sheridan is also just one of the worst lights for spotting cause the camo is atrocious. Let's not even consider brawls where the sheridan gets cooked

[ionic kraken]

570 alpha that comes every 12 seconds, 1140 every 24, which is basically the BZT, but more annoying because it's MOBILE.

[muted rampart]

That's not how it works man.

There is a massive difference between having to shoot twice for 570 and just delievering the whole damage at once

[nimble zodiac]

But two instances of poking the enemy means they can get shot back twice, which is terrible for trading, especially with low HP