tank-balance-discussion

[ripe trellis]

Hi

How to play on reforget version pls help

[stark wind]

You have to wait UT5

[ripe trellis]

Ok

[burnt venture]

lol ppl that say BZT is bad is missing the point entirely. It’s a premium 183 that steals a HT spot, with heavy HP that earns credits. Peak gaming while everyone else suffers

If people aren’t complaining about the nuke meta now, they will be soon

[cursive quiver]

No, there's nothing to compare it to. A heavy tank should be pushing forward, not sitting in the bushes. A reverse speed of 9 km/h is nothing. A tank destroyer can shoot from the bushes with impunity. If you're a 40% player, go sit in the bushes with a BZT 70.

[nimble zodiac]

You know you can take cover so the enemy doesn’t out-trade you, assuming they pen your turret (your example image is inaccurate because you angled the armor downward, which is not going to be the case if you aren’t actively throwing the game).

Your whole purpose in BZT-70 is to out-trade ANYTHING.

[cursive quiver]

show how to do it in the city map. the tank is very low, everyone who is higher will annihilate the turret armor -8 UVN feels like -6, 9km of reverse will not allow it to roll back in time. you really haven't played and don't understand the essence of heavy tanks. and this tank is for real bucks. it's not worth even $1 with such performance characteristics.

[viscid lion]

Мені мали дати приз за те що я увійшов і зіграв у бета тесті но за 20 і більше боїв мені на основний акаунт фортоф бліц винагорода в розмірі 2500зодота і 30діб преміума не надалось

[cursive quiver]

I say this as a player who has played 19,000 battles, has downloaded all the tank branches. And I have tanks like the Type 5 Heavy, which is 10 times better than the BZT70. It's a shame to release such a tank for sale.

[uneven turtle]

Is this satirical 🤔

I personally think it’s not a good tank at all but something you play for enjoyment instead

[burnt venture]

Rookie numbers my guy

[uneven turtle]

If you bought it expecting it to be good without looking at its stats beforehand, then that’s on you no?

[terse beacon]

It's not supposed to be a good tank in the first place

[burnt venture]

The game is already a nuke meta and BZT just completes that

[uneven turtle]

Ehhh

I don’t think I’ve heard anyone ever saying wotb’s in a nuke meta yet

[burnt venture]

Dawg this is 1000% a nuke meta, it’s high alpha guns and autoloaders everywhere. Play some matches and tell me how many single shot low alpha tanks you see right now

460 is almost a low alpha gun now that’s how bad it’s getting lol

[uneven turtle]

I mean sure but at least those auto loaders/reloaders also have other stuff going for them, whereas bzt70 essentially trades off even more than the 183 just to have a nuking gun and ht hp on the lower spectrum

The yoh can hit for 900 in 1.7 seconds while having the ability to effectively hulldown

Kran can effectively hulldown and pick you off with the single shot or just choose to easily take away 1230

I think it’s more just autoloader meta than nuke meta

[burnt venture]

That’s the same thing dude, it’s the combo of everyone only plays high alpha and burst tanks

Like to quote @mystic gorge tier X is basically Godzilla vs Kong now lmao. Every tank just dumps insane amounts of damage in one shot or a burst

[uneven turtle]

So do tanks like the e5 or e6 or rhm or e50m or 62a just suck now/become irrelevant?

215B as well? 121B?

[patent helm]

not really

[burnt venture]

Mediums have been out of the meta for so long lol

[uneven turtle]

That was kinda supposed to be rhetorical

[burnt venture]

Yeah because Concept and Kran just make those tanks look weak lol

[orchid grove]

It’s absolutely nuke meta lol. 2 shell autoloaders, autoreloaders, and high alpha tanks just have play styles that reward nuking players for 1k with no downsides

[burnt venture]

Ur at an active disadvantage right now if you play with single shot guns that have less than 460 alpha

[uneven turtle]

Bzt kinda has a lot of downsides if u ask me

Even more so than 183

[orchid grove]

“Almost” is an understatement. Remember those games we had yesterday when the single lowest alpha tanks on both teams was a 60TP lmao

[burnt venture]

Yeah downsides such as the fact you can just nuke someone for 1300 or “miss” for 600.

I think you misunderstand just how ridiculous that kind of alpha is on a tank with HT HP, even if it is big and has basically no armor. It’s broken

It’s the prime example of giving a tank 1000 alpha then making it terrible everywhere else. Is it balanced? Probably. But nobody has fun playing against it either

183 isn’t that good either but people complain about it daily. This is the same exact thing lol

[uneven turtle]

Having an even less accurate gun than 183 that requires you to be closer in a massive tank that barely has any semblance of armor doesn’t make it sound broken

[orchid grove]

But it has HP and a fully traversable turret. And -8 gun depression

[burnt venture]

This is totally fine btw to not aim at a Maus and do 600 a shot

[ivory quiver]

at least there’s an HE ammo limit too for now…not looking forwards to that becoming unlimited

[uneven turtle]

183 has better survivability imo since you can retreat back into cover after shooting if ur camping therefore not losing hp

[burnt venture]

It’s absolutely better than 183 in every way possible lol. The 183 is restricted to distance plays and basically unable to surprise people around corners or play hills due to the turret layout. This can do all of those things and blast your face off at close range while being difficult to hit

Sounds like you haven’t played against a decent BZT yet

[terse beacon]

That's cool and all but bzt is still a pile of garbage

[burnt venture]

The alpha just rocks people and it doesn’t matter that enemies hit you back in return. You play two of these at close range and just clear a tank in one second, you don’t even have to care about damage you receive

Tell me how good that is for the game lmao

[orchid grove]

The 183 can only hold a sight line because of the rear mounted gun and limited gun arc. To peek a corner, he needs to drive all the way around a corner. BZT has fairly quick acceleration and a full turret, so he can peek you way easier

[burnt venture]

It’s not a game carry tank, it’s literally designed to just ruin everybody’s games. It’s super broken

On top of that you can have a pair of BZTs and a pair of 183s on the same team now so there’s more 183s in the game than ever

[uneven turtle]

Im sure getting splashed for 600 doesn’t sound fun but at the end of the day it’s still a 7v7 and 600 every 23 seconds isn’t all that when u compare it with how much more u can do in literally anything

Except maybe camper tds

[orchid grove]

It’s not very fun when double BZT can just push and kill you instantly from full HP; just because you happened to spawn in a tank that’s “low HP”

[burnt venture]

Yes I assure you that guy totally didn’t DM me toxic messages after the game

Ur still missing the point, it makes one specific person’s game absolutely miserable

It takes absolutely zero skill to do what I did there. No aim no nothing

[uneven turtle]

Making a player’s game absolutely miserable doesn’t make a tank overpowered though?

[burnt venture]

no, it makes it BROKEN. Can you read lol

[uneven turtle]

I know, a bzt being able to mess with someone’s experience doesn’t make it op

[patent helm]

how can it be meta if i can have a higher dpg or wr in a "low alpha" single shot tank?
because it is a lot easier to play?/broken

[burnt venture]

I mean I have higher dpg and wr in many other tanks lol, what does that prove

[uneven turtle]

Hold on while I seek confirmation bias from General

[patent helm]

id call the tanks with highest wr and dpg meta

[burnt venture]

The point is that these tanks do so much damage with so little effort it’s insane. Same with Type 5

[patent helm]

fair

[burnt venture]

Why sweat in a medium to shoot pixels when you can do 3k in three or four shots, and then make 100k credits on a 1200 base XP ace on NA. It’s a no brainer

On NA you can do 1500 damage and get a first class and get 70k credits lol

[patent helm]

bruh what

[burnt venture]

It’s a better 183 that prints more money than tier 8s if you’re decent

[burnt venture]

The average person in this server does not have a single clue about anything in this game

[uneven turtle]

That’s why Im pinging the more experienced peeps

[burnt venture]

You still have not understood that broken and overpowered are two different things

[uneven turtle]

Dont they have the same effect in general though

[orchid grove]

Not at all. BZT and 183 aren’t OP, but it doesn’t change the fact that they’re extremely toxic

[uneven turtle]

I mean, if u can do so much with so little effort, doesn’t that make it overpowered

Sounds like the definition of overpowered

Well sorry for being so ignorant but can you state the differences in your definition of “broken” and “overpowered” cus I’ve always used the two terms the same way when describing something that’s way too good

Just asking something outside of balance so I don’t make the same mistakes when engaging in these types of conversations in the future

[burnt venture]

A tank doesn’t have to be broken to be OP or vice versa

[uneven turtle]

I don’t get it sry

Shld move it over to off topic just in case

[burnt venture]

I mean it’s relevant to the channel

Broken means there’s an un fun or exploitative mechanic that’s part of the tank which is just toxic and bad for the game

OP is just regular definition. Tank is way better in almost every way than the other competition

[uneven turtle]

So a tank can also be both of those at the same time eh

Like the kran

[burnt venture]

I would argue so

But it can also only be one or neither

[uneven turtle]

I see now,

But wouldn’t you use the term meta for tanks that are overpowered instead of broken

[burnt venture]

T95E6 at its peak was too good but it was never broken

[patent helm]

low skill ceiling and low skill floor makes it easy to do well in but also not too "op" as you call it

[burnt venture]

Meta doesn’t have to mean OP. Look at 116F3 or IS-4 / E5 meta for example

Usually meta tanks are just good tanks which are easy and accessible to play

[uneven turtle]

Like the bzt 70 is broken but having it contribute to nuke meta would be giving it too much credit when we have tanks that can hit as hard or even harder with a bigger safety net than the bzt?

[burnt venture]

It adds to the problem lol

[uneven turtle]

mmmm okay I have the gist of it
-# I hope

[wicked quest]

The 4005 can do 1000+ damage with both shots with HE and outright kill anything not a heavy with it but it’s still paper and slow to reload

[uneven turtle]

Eh aren’t all autoloaders/reloaders just toxic though

[queen geyser]

For me broken means something that gamebreaking, something so absurd that it changes the game in a fundamentally and unfun way, for example getting hit by -1300

Another good example is KV2, the ability to oneshot tanks while every tank usually needs a few shots to destroy a target can be viewed as broken

However it happens so rarely and the tanks like FV183, Bzt or kv2 are too unreliable to be actually strong, they are not op in any way since other tanks are far better if you want to win reliable

Overpowered for me personally means a tank that’s far stronger then others, this usually shows by the fact that the tank is other tanks obsolete, there is no reason to play different tanks since the overpowered tank is the way to go

Toxic and broken are often used also in the same way

[uneven turtle]

Alright alright synx explained it well enough for me😅

[queen geyser]

Oh

[uneven turtle]

So the most important issue to deal with right now in high alpha tanks is just splash damage right?

Since that’s the exploitative mechanic

[queen geyser]

The problem is that you get hit for -1000 on AP and -1300 for a successful hesh pen and the AP pen is very good

Most 183 sit in one spot till the end of the game and are happy with 1 shot of damage

People who want to progress the game by playing actively and are pushing are often on the receiving end of the 1 shot of damage a 183 player will do

Even if you know exactly where the 183 is probably sitting, on some maps you can’t avoid it if you want to progress your game

[uneven turtle]

I mean an unspotted 183 is less scary than a spotted bzt

[queen geyser]

Yeah but a 183 won’t be spotted, it’s gonna sit at the end of the map with a far to overbuffed camo net which makes it imposdible for mediums and heavies to spot them

Until the 183 fires ofc

[uneven turtle]

Bring back prime bc25t spotting range😔

[queen geyser]

And the 183 is very poplar right now, you almost face on every game which makes the problem really oppressing

[uneven turtle]

I have a gut feeling that I’ll get into a lot of heated discussions about the definitions of broken and op from here on out👀

[burnt venture]

I can prove you wrong very quickly lol. The BZT can be super oppressive and stop any aggression

[burnt venture]

The bigger thing is you can miss a shot and still do 5-600 in BZT which is hilarious cuz that’s still TD damage

[uneven turtle]

I mean if something is spotted then I can make plays against it

[burnt venture]

Splashing an LT does “only” 600 like that’s not almost a third of their HP

[queen geyser]

I fear a 60TP who spams HE much more then a BZT who can’t pen me, the BZT is easily punishable if it’s spotted, as long as it dosnt yolorush you for one shot of damage ofc

[burnt venture]

I mean it just targets bad players, which are everywhere

The issue with games ending fast isn’t good players. It’s bad players getting deleted in a millisecond

And BZT speeds up that process

Whereas 183 waits for shots

[queen geyser]

Mhm idk what to think about that, gonna need to wait and see how people perform in the BZT, but I don’t think it’s gonna be high

[cursive quiver]

please developers listen to the players this is not what we wanted in the release. he needs an armor upgrade. if the gun is left as it is now then give him armor and -15 km of reverse. a tank for real $ should bring pleasure from the game. and so far from playing on BZT only negative

[queen geyser]

It dosnt need a buff, it needs more informed players that think before spending money

[rocky sentinel]

That’s a you problem. What you are suggesting will make it OP and game breaking, this game isn’t pay to win. Plus the stats were out for the past 4 months, you got no one to blame but yourself.

[hushed token]

The hell you mean it needs an armor upgrade . You should be happy that Wargaming even gives it 8 degrees of gun depression

[odd remnant]

BZT doesn't need to be good lmao, entire premise of it is to shoot something for 1200 and that's it

[burnt venture]

It’s already good in that it’s a more flexible 183 that prints credits. Doesn’t need anything else

[rocky sentinel]

From my experience an unspotted 183 who could be anywhere from Normandy beach’s to the moon, so they don’t normally sit in one spot. Plus the BZT70 has 2300 DPM and is spotted much easier, while the 183 has 2700 DPM, and can sit unspotted in the back. IMO the BZT70 will just be a HP piñata, and just don’t poke it.

[remote oriole]

Sometimes I play with the thought that the whole autoloader and high alpha affair would not be as problematic or impactful if the alpha to max hp ratio was significantly lower, i.e. if all tanks had say 1k more hp at tier ten (or lower alpha across the board)

[burnt venture]

Yeah we can’t have that, because it’s clearly the intended game design when we nerf medium HP in the last rebalance so they can become one shot after getting hit once

Like lmao the balancing is just incredible

[rocky sentinel]

High DPS tanks are easy to counter: don’t trade with them. Autoloaders however poke, track, and deal way more damage. Autoloaders in real life outreload tanks without them, not dumping 3 shells in 5 seconds tracking people in the open and waiting 20 seconds to get them back. All autoloaders should have short enough introclips to outreload single shots but also have low DPM and long introclips. Like the IS3 defender, and T28 defender.

[remote oriole]

Autoloaders in real life do not outreload manual loaders in all standard shell sizes up to 125mm for the first few shots. Added issues are mechanical complexity and irreplaceability as well as less crew members (which could also be viewed as an advantage)

[rocky sentinel]

For example: I have a 400 DPS tank with a 10 second reload, an autoloader should have a 8 second introclip between shells. They way you can comfortably out-trade without being shot again, but also give plenty of time for someone to back up before the shells come back.

[remote oriole]

But completely regardless, I don‘t think that a ‚rapid second shot‘ is a problematic game mechanic per se; in the end the higher damage potential just needs to be balanced by another factor

[mystic gorge]

It’s true tho 😂 KPZ70/114SP2/E100/Type5/VZ55/Yoh/BZT/60TP/4005/183/Concept…..

the list goes on. Bottom line you’re getting nuked in some way. It’s just a spectrum in how much Hp you’re losing

[burnt venture]

The Mike Tyson and Godzilla and Kong analogy is hilarious and on point

[cursive quiver]

100%

[wary saddle]

"If you don't have this tank" blah blah blah

We care more about balance than your tank's worth. You're pushing such a biased suggestion just because you're incapable of handling such a tank... oh wait the tank is trash and only has alpha going for it! As expected! Truly people are mad driven to expect such an crazy advantage when they dump money. But hey let's not be rude...

It doesn't have armor so it can get punished for delivering such a heavy shot

The reverse speed is also miniscule so it doesn't easily get away with it

You're a tank that delivers a thousand worth of damage, you're telling me people should be easily getting away with it?

[jaunty ridge]

I do think it could have used ret cal ngl

[wary saddle]

Jin you stay out of this, you're a bzt70 glazer who doesn't think. Nothing different from those average 183 mains

[jaunty ridge]

I'm a better triangle player than you would ever be 😮‍💨

[remote oriole]

Lovely. All the 183 nonsense discussions all over again just because WG couldn‘t say no to an opportunity of making obscene amounts of money

[rocky sentinel]

Well, why wouldn’t they? The player base evidently loves handing WG 100’s to 1000’s of dollars

[remote oriole]

For the sake of the longevity and balance of the game, I would guess

I mean at least the balancing department was smart enough to make it relatively bad so it doesn‘t just crash the entire balance but now they have underscored the 183 problem with a tank that costs/ costed an absurd amount of money

[rocky sentinel]

I guess, after WG pockets half of it and the previous lead dev spends 100,000,000’s on reforged crap before they got the memo.
If anything the player base gives encouragement for WG to up the monetization.

[rocky sentinel]

It was luck they managed to make it balanced. WG doesn’t even play their own game, and half the testers aren’t that much better and the testers abuse the test tanks to get better stats. I mean, when was the last time anyone has seen a WG dev playing this game other than live streams?

[odd remnant]

i highly doubt anyone is breaking into WG employee's homes to check if they play the game or not
of course you'd only see them playing on stream

[remote oriole]

It‘s effectively their choice, but if they go down the rabbit hole of ultra monetisation this game won‘t see its 20th birthday. The incentive for WG to administrate their product properly should not need to be external

[rocky sentinel]

Well either way the entire game is also evidence to point to it, from balancing tanks, balancing maps, reforged, game patches, etc etc. But I will give them props for improving lately.

[odd remnant]

the monetization is still tame for the most part, everything thats overpriced is awful save for the chief prot, and even that tank has free alternatives that are better or just as good
you dont have to pay to do well, you can pay to get exclusive content if you want, but theres no dagger up your neck forcing you to

[rocky sentinel]

I mean, even then, I have so many OP tanks on my account I got for absolutely free, people don’t even need to spend money to get OP premiums or collectors. They could also play some OP tech trees for free as well.

[odd remnant]

yeah, so i don't really see the problem

also despite it looking like WG made a literal truckload of money, they made half a million $ through this at MOST
that doesn't even cover a month's worth of operating costs for their employees

[remote oriole]

It still has in-game effects that go beyond cosmetics and the economy. I would not call this game lost by any means, but the monetisation is getting increasingly more aggressive and questionable, neither of which will benefit the long term health of the game

[odd remnant]

assuming reforged doesn't decimate the playerbase, the monetization isn't a big deal with the health of the game in the current way its going
people dont stop playing blitz because hurr durr urm 5000$ tank, they quit because hurr durr the game sucks and the matchmaking makes them feel cheated
when a player feels cheated of something, they quit very quickly

[rocky sentinel]

They would have had a lot more money if they had listened to the player base from the beginning.

[terse beacon]

Majority of the playerbase have no idea what they're even talking about

[odd remnant]

what the playerbase thinks they want vs what they actually want is quite different
sure theres a lot of times where WG goes deaf and blind, but theres a lot of times where they do the right thing

[rocky sentinel]

True, but it’s an issue of both parties. WG should listen to the skilled player base, and a large portion of the player base shouldn’t ask WG to give every tank 4000 DPM or buffing autoloaders.

[odd remnant]

you can't always listen to the skilled playerbase because then it screws over the remaining 95% of the playerbase that isn't skilled

[terse beacon]

There is no black and white with stuff like this G

[rocky sentinel]

Yeah, I didn’t say “only listen to the skilled player base”.

[odd remnant]

again, game design and balancing isnt always listening to the playerbase directly, its extremely complex and as we can see, WG messed up along the way and there's a lot of issues with the game
but at the same time i don't think listening to the playerbase is a direct answer to the problems

[remote oriole]

You say that until you look at casual players and new players who painfully grind a line or get one single premium only for it to be trashed in one of the balancing sweeps. Or who get steamrolled by the premium spam in tier seven on their way up.

Aggressive monetisation does not mean that people quite because someone else spent ridiculous sums of money. Aggressive monetisation means that players leave because they feel like they cannot compete with those who pay, either because things change more quickly than they can adapt/ grind/ generate resources or because paid content is outright better than their free content

[rocky sentinel]

The player base should get better, why should events take them 24 hours because they are bad when they could get better and it takes them 10 hours?

[odd remnant]

thats not agressive monetization, thats a p2w economy or again, players feel cheated
a proper agressive economy is more like CSGO or League of legends where theres skins that cost thousands

[terse beacon]

Sbmm is a prime example of wg listening to the morons who spend all day everyday whining about how bad their teams are, turned out great btw

[remote oriole]

It‘s a result of aggressive monetisation; you change the meta to pitch your new offer - or create a new game mode to pitch the Pz II J (what?)

[odd remnant]

SBMM
looks inside
Stat normalizing matchmaker
🤪

[rocky sentinel]

Well, tbf it wasn’t a bad idea, just it was executed in the worst way possible.

[odd remnant]

yes, i have brought this up directly to the devs before, ik what you are talking about
im saying agressive monetization itself isnt the issue, its bad monetization and game balance, + monetization team having too much of a say on what goes on in the game

[terse beacon]

Right bzt is so much better than all the free content this darn aggressive monetization is ruining my game turning it super p2w

[terse beacon]

It was always a terrible idea, regardless of how it is implemented

[remote oriole]

Honestly I don‘t care how it‘s called in the end, so long as we don‘t end up like all the other mobile games that never understood that increasing proceeds does not necessarily mean that your game is doing better

[jaunty ridge]

To be fair... it thrives of punishing inexperienced/bad players who overextend or get caught in bad angles.

[remote oriole]

I‘ll keep you on short dial for when I run out of bad jokes at a party

[rocky sentinel]

Why? Having a balanced MM in the sense of one team gets a 30% wr and another team gets 30% wr, or one player who is 75% wr should fight another player of very similar wr. The MM is trash because it will put me in my T44 100 against a double defender MK1 platoon in GOSU

[terse beacon]

So does yoh except it's a lot more versatile and much less vulnerable.

[jaunty ridge]

bzt statistically isn't good, and it shouldn't be. It's just toxic

[odd remnant]

lmao
so a 70%er in a bourasque is the same as a 70%er in a Superpershing?

[jaunty ridge]

yoh punishes you for 900, this does 1200, or 1500 with max roll. If the player driving the bzt is skilled enough to get to your rear... then you have ever bigger problems to worry about

ofc, I doubt you'd let a bzt somehow flank you, cause you're a good player. The average joe who ignores the minimap though? I wouldn't be so sure

[remote oriole]

SBMM based on winrate was never going to work… like mathematically. The controlled parameter is also the input parameter; it‘s straight up a circle

[terse beacon]

Because the matchmaking being random makes it fair for everyone because everyone is dealing with the same thing. Also this would just ruin high winrate player queue time and still have extremely lopsided games which is what it's supposed to fix in the first place

[rocky sentinel]

The tank based MM is another part that is trash, but it would be better fighting a COMP platoon in Kran’s and me having another skilled player on me team.

[jaunty ridge]

Either way, bzt is a "fun" tank. Just like a 183, you don't play it to consistently carry. You play it for funny 1500 dmg moments

[odd remnant]

BZT punishes players who play while asleep
if you are aware, its hard to get dumped on by BZT hesh, and you can usualyl punish the BZT back for trying to dump on you
meanwhile Yoh shows up, dumps 900 in 2 seconds with retcal (can't miss), and then it drives back going 15 reverse with its stupid armor profile

I don't even think its the skill level of players ruining the matchmaker, its more like one team getting a paper TD + 183 while the other team gets a mino and E3
like what do you think is going to happen in that game when one team has two extra heavies

[terse beacon]

Yes!

Genuinely just go play rating if you want your "skill based" matchmaking (garbage there too btw)

[rocky sentinel]

I guess it’s more fair for a 70%er in a bourasque to fight a 40%er in a Super Pershing.

[odd remnant]

no lmao, its more fair for matchmaker to be purely random so it evens out over longer periods of time

[terse beacon]

There is a million times more skill expression in random mm than there is in any form of sbmm. Cherrypicking once off random games is not going to change that

[rocky sentinel]

So, quantity overrides quality.

[odd remnant]

it does, especially when its impossible to get high quality

[jaunty ridge]

Is this guy supporting sbmm? huh?!?

[remote oriole]

Eh… I mean, with a bit of tactical understanding this situation can be turned to a disadvantage for the more heavily armoured team. Essentially the trick is using space to minimise the brawling

[terse beacon]

Yeah man it was a good idea just executed poorly 👍

[odd remnant]

blitz games last 2-5 minutes anyways, its not like games of COD or league of legends that can last half an hour where you'd want the matchmaker to be as good as possible, and even then, random skill variance purely based off of the player's current performance at the time of day could throw it completely off

[remote oriole]

WG insists that with more players it works fine

[jaunty ridge]

I don't want every single game I play to be against 70% comp toons. What kind of fun would there be in that 24/7?

[odd remnant]

like if I play my main on league, im a division higher in MMR than if i play off roles
its the same thing with blitz
if a guy loves one specific type of tank, but he wants to play a different tank, or hes playing a tanik that doesn't perform as good as the other tank, the matchmaker becomes unbalanced despite statistics looking correct

[rocky sentinel]

K

[jaunty ridge]

^this.

[odd remnant]

SBMM is one of those things that wont work in games like blitz since the teams are too small, the games are too short, and the tanks themselves are unbalanced

[remote oriole]

Just be worse 😉

[terse beacon]

It's just bots coping bro nothing else. Waaaaa 40%er on my team

[jaunty ridge]

I'll reply to you seriously once you get to bronze in rating like I do. 😮‍💨

[remote oriole]

😔

[rocky sentinel]

Ok, I get ur points.

[odd remnant]

like for instance, in league of legends, the peak winrate for a champion is ~54%, and thats a smaller sample size due to lower playrates, while the lowest winrate is 44%, again, due to lower playrates

meanwhile in blitz, there are tanks ranging from 40% WR to 62% WR
you can't balance that 22% winrate difference

[terse beacon]

Especially with bot mm existing, any garbage 50%er can get a 70wr account. Sure it's not one of the main concerns but it's just another variable that will inevitably lead to lopsided matches especially when noob mm stops working at low player times

[odd remnant]

like, im sure you COULD create an algorithim based SBMM for blitz that gives you theoritically perfectly balanced matches based on a variety of statistics
but er, i don't want to sit in matchmaker for 10 minutes to play a game that lasts 3 minutes

[jaunty ridge]

The previous sbmm just punishes good players for being good. Simple as that.

[terse beacon]

Waiting 9 years if you're not playing a popular strong tank 👍

[odd remnant]

what i advocate for is EBMM, engagement based MM
have a basic self reinforcing algorithm that determines how to get a player playing for as long as possible, and use that for the matchmaker
the goal of a game is to make players happy yes?
so if they spend more time on a game, they are generally happier, because if they were angry, they'd quit

[remote oriole]

To be fair the relative winrate difference is more like 10%, since skilful and enthusiastic players sometimes have very different tank choices

[terse beacon]

70%+ players legitimately not allowed to toon with any of their friends great matchmaking

[jaunty ridge]

Every time I toon with my clanmate it's just meeting the same comp toon over and over again, just for sweaty close games where we win about half the time.

[odd remnant]

you'd better have a loicense for that skill expression you got there

also it'd incentivize players buying accounts with awful stats, to then sealclub in literal lobotomyMM

and encouraging buying accounts would also encourage selling accounts, which would encourage a black market of garbage bot accounts created for the sole purpose of sealclubbing, similar to what happens in other SBMM/ranked based games

[patent helm]

thank god this channel isnt taken seriously by the developers

[terse beacon]

That wasn't even the worst part, atleast that game is still playable despite being a sweatfest, even worse when two 70%ers tooning so they get an entire team of zombie 40%er npcs against a full enemy team of mid-high 50%ers and low 60%ers lmao. But since the team winrate is "balanced" there's nothing wrong statistically 👍

[odd remnant]

dont you worry i suggested these changes directly to the devs 🗣️

[remote oriole]

Nah. A proper skill based MM needs to be associated with a ranking, much like Rating battles or the division/ league/ whatever systems of other games. If there is no incentive for playing harder games, then there is no counterbalance for the natural incentive to fight easier games

[rocky sentinel]

Except there are people with over 5000 ratings score who are only 51%.

[remote oriole]

Social Media algorithms farm engagement and the revelation seems to be that nothing is as engaging as constant terror and outrage

[remote oriole]

Oh yeah, but that is a weakness of the system (or rather a problem with the lack of population) rather than a flaw with having a ranking

[terse beacon]

Well rating system is garbage so

[remote oriole]

In fact, you will find that there are players who are really not that good but have a high winrate (all present excluded obviously 😉 )

[odd remnant]

yep, but in a videogame
its fun and addictive, and we all know that to make $$$+, you need to make your stuff addictive as hell and get players hooked
its a videogame matchmaker as well, so it doesn't suggest content, it just balances teams to make sure as many people get enjoyment out of the game
is it unethical? yeah
is it gonna be fun? probably more than it is right now

EBMM has been tested to work fine on games like COD and Battlefield, where games are effectively rigged to make sure everyone gets enjoyment
its not a big deal lol, most of the things we do in our life are not of our own volition, so why not at least make life (in this case, a game) suck less?

[terse beacon]

The system is too lenient for a "skill based" mode

[remote oriole]

Well, I can only say ‚if you say so‘ since I have no concept of what the engagement based MM would prioritise. It could go completely wrong like social media algorithms or actually work great like you suggest. I certainly can‘t tell

[patent helm]

ebmm is literally the most hated feature in cod

[odd remnant]

i think COD has more issues than EBMM right now though, and its kinda seen as a bogeyman for its issues rather than COD in general being a dumpsterfire

EBMM if done correctly with an actually competent devbase + some sort of self reinforcing algoirthim (i will not be calling it AI) would be able to provide an improved experience, or at the very least, increase player engagement and time spent on the game, which is still a net positive

[remote oriole]

I heard there is something called ‚momentum‘ in EA Sports FC which allegedly rigs the game barely noticeably to make it more tense

[odd remnant]

yeah that happens in their driving games as well, the rubberbanding makes the game more intense for players

[terse beacon]

"Barely noticeable"😭😭

[remote oriole]

Fiction is a factor

[patent helm]

if youre not good enough and need handholding for a decent experience just say that

[odd remnant]

lmao personal attacks right off the bat instead of talking about the argument, classic

[remote oriole]

I need handholding for a decent experience

[odd remnant]

i dont consider rigging games in favor of a more enjoyable exprience to be bad as long as they dont do it in ranked games
in ranked, base it purely off of an ELO system
but in pubs where players play for fun?
let them have fun, life is hard anyways so why make it harder on people

[terse beacon]

Fifa is a ragebait simulator I'm ngl, when things start becoming inconsistent even if theyre just minor things imo the gameplay experience starts becoming a lot worse

[remote oriole]

The issue is that the main competition in Blitz has always been the stats

[patent helm]

arguments like these resulted in sbmm being implented for an update
leave the random mm for standard battles like it has been for the last decade

[odd remnant]

you need sub 70IQ to enjoy mainstream sports games, thats their target demographic anyways

[remote oriole]

I never played the game aside from a few party sessions, so I can‘t argue with you. Though I know that it successfully ragebaited some people I know who are usually quite calm 😅

[thorny timber]

I think the main problem is where these same pubs are whats responsible for your stats

[remote oriole]

If the arguments in this channel meant anything SBMM would never have been implemented, because the anti-SBMM gang including me have been shutting down people wanting a MM based on WR for years (because it was obvious from the start that it is a fundamentally nonsensical idea) and WG went ahead and did it anyways

[odd remnant]

i didnt advocate for SBMM
im advocating for a matchmaker that considers what players find fun and not fun, and use that to create matches
we wont need tank type based matchmaking once EBMM is implemented, every game would be balanced off of a mix of various factors
people quit after being dumped on by autoloaders?
reduce autoloader count automatically so that player sees less burst autoloaders
people quit after missing too many shots at long range?
start putting closer range maps into the pool where long range shots are rarer
etc

also again, this should only be applied for games that don't affect player stats, aka, the new reforged pubs, not the new ratings system

[patent helm]

yeah so instead of a fun game we use some bandaid mm algorithm to force it to be fun ingenious idea

[terse beacon]

It's just the little things like I said that are extremely inconsistent, you notice them the more your play and they feel extra frustrating because it's not really something you personally can dictate. So good for you that you never got into that game

[odd remnant]

because as of now, how many special matchmaker rigging rules have WG added to compensate for their poor balancing?
we first started having heavy tier balancing, because heavies were overbuffed and too influential
now we have autoloader limiting on the team to prevent autoloader spam
and then there's also the Annihilator / Smasher special MM where you always saw an Anni/Smasher on the other team if you played one
there's also 5kMM for new players so they dont get dumped on by veterans, but veterans abuse it to sealclub in 5kMM

are you seriously telling me matchmaker is "fine" in this state lmao

[remote oriole]

Honestly the first time I completely lost faith in WG was when they announced the SBMM based on WR. A concept so intrinsically senseless that the sheer ignorance by all layers of WG just outright baffled me

[odd remnant]

literal divide by zero type decision goofy ahh

[thorny timber]

How else can the game be fun, enlighten us please

[patent helm]

it is infinitly more fair than your suggestion because it is random

[odd remnant]

you would be playing the game rn instead of arguing about the matchmaker if you found the game fun
😳
im suggesting methods to make it more fun

[remote oriole]

Actually solid argument, that‘s some food for thought. We can‘t really keep going like this

[odd remnant]

so called random when the matchmaker is rigged with a whole list of rules to prevent this and that from occuring
i'd much prefer a dynamic matchmaker that makes sure my games are fun rather than relying on a slot machine with 50 extra steps to get me 0:7 steamroll

[patent helm]

nerf heavy tanks
reduce the amount of autoloaders
remove sub 5kmm and reverse 5.5

[odd remnant]

wow guys give this guy a medal for suggesting something that has only been repeated since the launch of 5.5 🙏
it's obvious WG doesn't want to do any of that given the tanks and balance patches they've released recently

[rocky sentinel]

Why do we care about 5.5? It removed a lot of low tiers that were to good for the games own good.

[patent helm]

you are suggesting artificial "fun" might aswell start taking drugs while playing wotb to enhance my experience

[remote oriole]

WG wants to push tanks that appeal to the majority of players (think 49% WR), hence we will be stuck with a heavy meta forever. Amd sub 5kMM will stay simply because it is a core component of new player retention (and from what I see it works to some degree)

[odd remnant]

i did say it was unethical, and yeah, id agree, taking drugs while playing blitz could be a better experience
its unhealthy, unethical, and definitely wrong, but you are trying to have fun and escape the horrors of reality no?
why not enjoy it

[patent helm]

almost as if a lot of people were unhappy about the changes
you asked for suggestions and now youre complaining about the ones i gave you

[remote oriole]

It‘s only unethical if it‘s a competitive setting and not everyone agreed to the rules

[odd remnant]

yep, it cannot and should not be implemented into competitive gamemodes, but in casual for fun pubs, who cares

[odd remnant]

im saying why your suggestions are unrealistic and unoriginal
i also didn't ask for suggestions from you, you're confusing me with someone else

[remote oriole]

Now I am going a bit crazy on my old Blitz days but sometimes I feel like WG is trialling different MMs in fun modes. However, at least there I completely agree that maximising player fun is the priority. In standard battles you have the issue that many players care a lot about stats

[patent helm]

having a good game out of merit because you are naturally good at the game is a lot more rewarding than behing handed an artificial win because the mm algorithm decided i should win today
you keep saying pubs are casual fun but that is not true considering how popular stats and marking tanks are on pc and blitz
if you want to maximize fun then create a gameplay where a loss can still be fun but do not trivialize merit

[odd remnant]

iirc there was a rumor that mad games rigged games to make it as close to 50/50 as possible, but that went nowhere

players caring about stats is a thing yes, i agree, but thats what competitive gamemodes are for

plus, there's still chances for rare high moments like a 7 kill ras or a kolobannov even with the EBMM system

[odd remnant]

who said that EBMM is based off of wins?
wins do not equate to a fun game
if i got middleburg, my whole team went town, and I couldn[t do anything but still won, that's no fun
vice versa, if I got a 8k damage game but lost, id still be like holy hell i just did 8k

EBMM could be based off of anything that increases player retention, not just wins

also brother stop confusing EBMM with SBMM

[patent helm]

then get better so you can carry your team if they go town in middleburg
i do not confuse sbmm with ebmm
my point is that both deflate the experience of having a good game or winning
because you are ultimately not the deciding factor in the outcome of the battle

[odd remnant]

you think you are the deciding factor of the outcome of the battle in random matchmaker?
you, one out of 14 players, is the deciding factor
you can exert high amounts of influence yes, but you are never the deciding factor
same with EBMM
matchmaker exerts a strong influence to make the game fun, but you still have to drive your tank properly to get that gameplay, and if you were having fun shooting tanks in random MM, EMBM wont change this

[thorny timber]

Nerfing heavies too much will definitely bring up the skill ceiling, don't think your average player would find getting punished for making a mistake much fun

As for autoloaders, yeah I agree they deserve some tweaks

I think those mm changes and the 5.5 thing essentially contradict one another, it's better to let new players stay in their bot mm so they can actually get used to the game mechanics, it certainly wouldn't feel fun to be matched against sweats even if randomly in your first matches, it just spikes things up

[remote oriole]

The outcome of the battle is not a simple yes or no. When I exit a game, the outcome is sometimes a racing heart, a rush of adrenaline, a distinct hate for a certain someone, relief, joy, sadness, frustration and a whole lot of other things. Winning or losing is only a small part of the end of a game and it plays no part in what derives the value of a game for me - unless I need to win for a mission 😆

[vapid horizon]

That heavily depends on the specific systems being compared.

[odd remnant]

oh god dont even get me started on the missions in the game 💢

[remote oriole]

You are absolutely right, I generalised too much to combat a statement that was too general for my taste… 🙃

[odd remnant]

petition to add a jamming mechanic for autoloaders where every shell fired has a 25% chance of jamming the gun or misfiring so its like real life 100%

[vapid horizon]

Honestly if every game was fun or easy, I personally would lose interest. Playing 20 games from the tutorial in noob MM was an absolute chore. On the contrary, I managed an 85 battle session in Lorraine 40t without losing interest.

[remote oriole]

Just like you simply won‘t spawn in half the battles when you play the Tiger I because of supply issues 😉

[patent helm]

over the course of a set of battles yes
because that is the only difference between me and any other player on the server
so if i have better thats than them it is because i am better than them and not because of any artificial tampering with the mm like you suggest
there is a group of people that like to do above average at this game (hence the popularity of streamers especially on pc) that do not only like pew pew kablooie like you suggest
getting better is part of the fun
if i want some 30 minute dopamine rush for the day i can do a lot of other things than play a tank gacha with some algorithm that decides how much joy i get

[odd remnant]

the other half the transmission breaks down before you leave spawn 🙏

[odd remnant]

play the competitive gamemode that doesn't use EBMM then?

[remote oriole]

Balance at last

[odd remnant]

I'm not asking for EBMM for the entire game, that's insane, competitive players would be eradicated overnight, but let's be fair, 90% of the playerbase just wants good old fun

[vapid horizon]

I could go into specifics but that would go into #off-topic-discussion

[odd remnant]

Soviet tanks hull break and shatter when you shoot them 💪 🦅

[remote oriole]

Feel free

[thorny timber]

There's also this fun fact that fun is mostly subjective which makes things a headache

[odd remnant]

engagement time is generaly an indicator of fun

[patent helm]

go play this super unpopular mode because i want to make standard battles even worse

[odd remnant]

you realize ratings is the default gamemode for reforged right

[patent helm]

you realize reforged is also super unpopular

[thorny timber]

What about the sunk cost fallacy or grinding events?

[odd remnant]

that's why I said generally

[thorny timber]

Also uh were we supposed to discuss mm here

[odd remnant]

tank balance in the matchmaker 🙉

[odd remnant]

yeah and it's releasing soon, ik, I don't like refogged either, but flogging. a dead horse ain't gonna make WG cancel it

[patent helm]

lets hope they dont make it worse by tampering with standard battle mm then :)
id be fine with your idea if you would suggest it in a seperate gamemode tbh
are you too afraid it cannot stand on its own so we need to replace an existing mm with it

[odd remnant]

jesus christ brother whats with the ad hominems can you not make a normal argument
it can stand on its own i just dont think it works with competitive gamemodes

wargaming has yet to figure out the secret of making ranked actually ranked
zero incentives to play ranked
only reward is the worst tier 7 TD in the game 🐸

[patent helm]

what
have you ever played high league ratings

[remote oriole]

There is no low tier ratings

Note to myself: do not say the word for the usually alcoholic fruity beverage mix

But yeah anyways, I think WG has the right idea with trying to establish a ratings system as the main mode of competition in the game as opposed to a stats based system

It does away with what essentially amounts to an uncountably large amount of custom normalised winrates (WN7, WN8, WNX and relative winrate are the most well known ones, but most players have their own mix and weighs, usually including damage per game and average tier)

[patent helm]

way more accurate than just looking at the highest achieved rating league

[remote oriole]

You mean currently or if ratings was actually seriously considered the main gamemode?

[patent helm]

currently
i dont know if ratings can be the new main gamemode or if most players will switch to standard in reforged
there are games/shooters where their main gamemode is ranked but i dpnt know if wotb will ever add to that list honestly
a lot of modern games have some form of ebmm and ranked mode but having played cod ebmm isnt really popular there either and i dislike it aswell
theres a reason bo7 was advertised with having no ebmm in it

[burnt venture]

Issue with ratings is that everyone can play with everyone. That’s why it sucks so much

In other games, if you get to diamond or champion you don’t play with lower ELO players. But in blitz even if you are diamond you can still have people in freaking silver in your match

That’s why climbing higher punished you, which makes no sense whatsoever. Especially on smaller servers like NA

If I’m diamond I would never ever want to play with anyone lower than platinum

[timber flume]

The white cube need a buff

[orchid grove]

Hate to break it to you bro but 60tp, kpz, and 114SP2 are low alpha in the current meta. Check this lineup that me and Synx just played with. Lowest alpha is the VK 72 lol

[patent helm]

buff heavy tank hp
introduce more heavy tanks with higher alpha
its all so tiresome

[odd remnant]

i wish reforged devs could look at your postprocessing filters and decide against it (reforged)

[clear flax]

That’s why the objective of the new game mode domination seems pointless. Nobody cares about winning. They just want to farm damage because they can’t do that in normal pubs

[odd remnant]

yep
winning is such a useless factor that just makes the players feel bad and don't contribute to the fun
the fun of domination is just to shoot tanks of all tiers, nobody wants to cap or win

[vague fiber]

foch 560? m6 450/300? kran 410?

[waxen geode]

Why does the 121B makes me feel that i belong in tier 10. I do well with it. My question is, why can't I perform the same with the type 59 at tier 8? I got the type 59 thinking that I was going to perform just as good. But nope, totally the opposite. Not blaming the tank though.

[vague fiber]

because it wasnt good in the first place

[jagged canopy]

Dear wotb, please fix the 4005s gun please

[buoyant shoal]

Fps 74 ping 38 me: watches in sadness as my 9yr iPad runs with on lowest graphics on 200 ping and 30 fps…… and sometimes 1064 ping with no fps…..

[vapid horizon]

Tier 9 - Tier 10 balance is completely cooked, their is no point in playing tier 9 collectors (like the ones WG keeps moving from tier 8) because you just consistently end up in tier X matches anyways.

[heady dagger]

PING ISSUE IS TERRIBLE!!

[buoyant shoal]

lol yeah

[heady dagger]

<@&481447501690568709> please forward this issue, might be better if they add a server in UAE. that server would really lower ping for players in Pakistan, India, UAE, Afghanistan, Saudia and nearby regions. I am from Pakistan and my nearest server is Singapore which is 5800km+ away from me, most of time face packet losses.

[buoyant shoal]

Yes, I’m in Australia, it might be my old device but I get lag 1/20 battles

[heady dagger]

but my device is totally fine as I am on laptop 2-3 years old. game isn't that demanding, but network issue remains because of server being too far from me.

[buoyant shoal]

Ye that’s fair

[heady dagger]

hope moderators see it. 🥹

[heady dagger]

@brisk cedar 😁

[brisk cedar]

I pass it along

[worthy basin]

There is Middle East server cluster, but it’s part of the EU server

[rocky sentinel]

I understand the tier nines moved up from tier 8, because they are mid, but there are many really good tier 9 collectors. Plus tier 9’s are very fun to fight tier 8’s with.

[muted rampart]

There is a cluster in southern Kazakhstan, but it's under EU server.

You would probably have much lower ping there, but you would have to switch to EU server which means starting over again from scratch.

Alternatively you can just wait for reforged when the servers are suposed to be merged afaik, but it will take a few months at the very least for it to be released

[vapid horizon]

Some broad ideas for balance that may help the game.

buffing medium tank hp
increasing autoloader intraclip reloads and after shot dispersion
decreasing the damage and accuracy of 150cm+ guns
reducing tank destroyer hp

[terse cairn]

I agree

[thorny timber]

Buffing med hp means heavies would be pointless and reducing td hp will encourage camping more than actually giving support fire

[terse cairn]

Instead of reducing td hp, reduce their camo

[vapid horizon]

How would buffing medium hp, from say around 1800-1850 to around 1950-2000 make heavies useless? Lol

[thorny timber]

You didn't even specify how much you'd buff it

[rocky sentinel]

Buffing medium HP is not needed, buffing heavy tanks HP would be the class that needs it most.
And heavily armored TD’s like the Jag.
For autoloaders(and autoreloaders) I absolutely agree.

Reducing TD HP is all well and good, but imo TD camo values need a nerf more than their HP.

[vapid horizon]

Mediums as a class have been irrelevant in blitz for awhile, something should be done to bring them back into focus more.

[rocky sentinel]

Exactly how are they irrelevant? They are ridiculously influential in battles, because of their mobility and view range. Ask any skilled player and they will agree. Another reason why is what is a heavy supposed to do if their a medium flank falls apart? The mediums will outspot and farm them, while not being easily spotted themselves. Heavys are supposed to hold and waste the enemy’s time. Mediums flank, spot, and farm everything.

Not to mention the medium spam that happened for the past 1.5 years.

[terse cairn]

Not at all

[thorny timber]

50-100 hp facelift would not be the end of the world, still the main td problem we have is the concealment they already have at base plus the additional camo equipment gives them

[rocky sentinel]

True, but at that point I’d give the heavy’s +100-200 HP.

[terse cairn]

Buff improved assembly to its previous state

[vapid horizon]

Simply look at ratings, competitive play, or even just the amount of tanks in the game, heavies are clearly and strongly favored.

It is not uncommon to increasingly see teams composed almost entirely of heavies & tank destroyers.

[terse cairn]

More heavies, so a bit slower paced gameplay and so games last a bit longer. I am not against it entirely

[rocky sentinel]

Well just because they are less played doesn’t mean they are irrelevant. It’s also because WG tweaked the MM.

[muted rampart]

Heavies have been stupidly dominant ever since the across the board HP buff they got a few years ago.

I didn't think it was not common knowledge.

There is nothing to discuss here, meds are objectively less competitive.

Whether HP buff is what they need i don't know, but they do need something.

[orchid grove]

They’re pretty irrelevant. You have to work so hard to find numerous shot opportunities to damage in a single shooter med, but you can only take 3 hits before dying, so one or two slip ups and your game ends.

2 shell autoloaders and autoreloaders need a bunch of serious nerfs

[muted rampart]

MM change is so recent we are yet to see it's effects in data.

As for what we know for sure is that meds are far behind heavies when it comes to performance.

They lack way too much when compared to heavies in exchange for way too little return.

On blitz maps all of the more mobile heavies have enough mobility to make this advantage on meds close to irrelevant. Unless your top speed is below like 35 you are not very likely to struggle in this regard.

On the other hand survivability and firepower buffs heavies get over the meds are just insane.

[terse beacon]

They're only really irrelevant in comp, t10 meds are quite well balanced atm despite yes heavies still being the most dominant tank type tho I don't really have an issue with that. The bigger problem to me is the tiers aside from 10 where the disparity is a lot bigger as they get balance changes much less frequently

[orchid grove]

Why would you play a medium when there are heavy tanks that have almost as much mobility, more firepower, and can survive more than 3 shots?

[terse cairn]

Its just the E6

[vapid horizon]

Really everything around them needs to be toned back, and mediums themselves need to be more usable for the average player. Not necessarily no-hands-juan, but your average 51%-55%er can consistently contribute to games in a meaningful capacity.

[terse beacon]

Because I didn't realise I'm forced to be a meta slave every time I load up the game? In randoms there are still plenty of mediums that are still viable and what you're saying only accounts for a fraction of heavies

[terse cairn]

They are complaining about the heaviums

[terse beacon]

They already can

[orchid grove]

I mean, you kinda are. Playing a medium in the current meta is just painful. With a single shooter 105, you have to find 9 shot opportunities to do 3k, but you can be deleted by just 2-3 shots or clips.

[terse beacon]

"Playing a medium is painful"

Like lmao? Ok dude whatever you say

[muted rampart]

If you want to be competitive it is painful.

If you don't care about that why even bother participating in balance discussion? With such attitude you can play the biggest pieces of trash and not care

[vapid horizon]

how does one even solve the proliferation of autoloaders though? Is it justified to remove them? Should they be redesigned? Etc

[terse beacon]

That's what's known as a skill issue brother, like I've already said there are plenty of meds still completely viable in the current game. Just because they're not the most dominant tank type doesn't change That, if you want to see actual heavy dominance go look at lower tiers

[muted rampart]

Lower tiers aren't even mentioned here as WG clearly doesn't care.

The fact that situation there is even worse, doesn't negate the fact that it's still bad even at T10

[terse cairn]

So which heavies are dominant?

[orchid grove]

2 shell autoloaders need to be outright removed wherever possible. They should be switched to 3 shell autoloaders or single shooters.

And autoreloaders need much heavier penalties for reaching into the magazine.

The clip potential isn’t the problem. The problem is that they’re too flexible. Their gameplay encourages players to just sit back and punish mistakes like a JgPz or 183, and they have zero downsides for doing so.

[terse beacon]

Except it isn't, med balance at t10 is quite good. The only heavies actually causing issues are the overbuffed heaviums. And I'm talking about t9 and 8.

Tldr it's a you problem if you're struggling to be "competitive" with current meds

[vapid horizon]

Could I throw some specific examples your way?

[orchid grove]

Sure

[rocky sentinel]

I don’t really have to work hard, 3 marking the KPZ 50t for example was easy, the only medium I have had trouble with playing is… well the T44 100, if I can even call it trouble.
I do agree that there are plenty of moments when driving a medium sucks, but that is only when I’m up against something like carro, Patton, or E50M, even then that’s only when the players are playing smart.

[vapid horizon]

Foch 155 is probably one of the oldest double shot autoloaders in high tiers, but it's probably one of the least flexible autoloaders in the game. What should be done with it.

[rocky sentinel]

I can easily agree with all of this, except double shots being removed. IMO all autoloaders and autoreloaders need to have introclips are only 2 seconds faster then their single shots who have the same gun caliber, like a 120MM having a 6-7 second introclip.

[vapid horizon]

I dont think that really scales with alpha

[rocky sentinel]

Wdym?

[orchid grove]

Foch 155 was originally a single shooter. And it was fine back then, so the easy choice would be to just revert it back to that.

The other option, would be to make it a 3 shell autoloader. I think 3x560 with a 5s interclip and a 26 second reload (for ~2800 DPM) would be totally fine. If you manage to sit in front of a Foch for a full 10 seconds, you deserve to take 1680, but most of the time, that Foch is going to always have to be very careful with managing his ammunition or he’ll run out of shells when he needs them the most.

[orchid grove]

The other big problem is that 2 shell autoloaders have much faster full reload times. There is zero downside to reloading. Autoloaders should be punished for running out of shells

[muted rampart]

Well duh. 3 marking a tank means nothing here as it only compares your results with other people playing the same tank.

It's like the most irrelevant thing you could bring up in such a discussion.

[muted rampart]

All autoloaders and autoreloaders outside of select few that have other downsides need to have their DPM cut by like at least 20-30% depedning on the tank.

It's just stupid how broken they are.

2 shot autoloaders aren't inherently bad, just look at burrasque. But WG just can't get them right at T10 at all. Whether it's Yoh, Murat or Concept, all of them are stupid.

[vapid horizon]

It still has the single shot?

[rocky sentinel]

Yeah it does.

[terse beacon]

Bourrasque is one of the worst balanced double shot tanks in the game

[vapid horizon]

I wouldn't say all autoloaders, specifically the Lorraine 40t.

[grave vault]

I'd say it can also take 5x400 gun like the other version of the Foch from the WoT.

2,8s. intraclip and 33s. reload.

[orchid grove]

It does, but it’s been neutered. It got a bunch of nerfs alongside the autoloader for basically no reason

[muted rampart]

Lorraine already has DPM low enough. That's why i said outside of select few.

[grave vault]

We make everything overpowered so nothing is overpowered.

[orchid grove]

Bourrasque is such a bad example. That tank was the tank that proved how stupidly broken 2 shell autoloaders are in Blitz. Even though they neutered the DPM, it’s still just a Borsig that flies around the map with good accuracy. Completely toxic tank

[muted rampart]

Burrasque is a very well balanced tank.

It is an excellent tank, but at the same time does have it's downsides and doesn't feel too toxic to play against.

Yeah it does outperform pretty much all T8 meds, but that's because all of them are dogwater and there are only like 2 competitive T8 meds in total, not because it in itself is overpowered.

[vapid horizon]

Honestly Lorraine is a good model of about what a normal autoloader should look like in blitz

[rocky sentinel]

Yeah it only has the best camo, as much clipping potential as a SU152 in 2 seconds, good pen, accuracy, decent pen, very small, troll armor. Very balanced.

[muted rampart]

Tbh i don't think so. Yes, it is mobile and packs a punch, but when compared to stuff like Concept or Murat it is much closer to what i think ideal 2 shot autoloader should look like.

It does have a low DPM which makes every shot count, lengthy reload that can punish you for your mistakes and a derpy gun that makes it all the more important to take your shots carefully.

While i guess losing 600 HP to a small and nimble rat may be annoying i think it's the most balanced 2 shot autoloader we have in the game

[orchid grove]

That’s because Lorraine is how an autoloader is supposed to work. Nice big magazine, but it doesn’t unload on you instantly, and it can actually be punished when it goes on reload.

But all the clowns always cry that they want shorter interclips and smaller magazines to “better fit Blitz”, and that’s how we got to this ridiculous mess where everything is a 2 shot autoloader, or has clip boost

[vapid horizon]

Another kinda issue in blitz different from autoloaders is the prevalence of super high alpha tanks, especially after WG started messing with the damage of calibers.

[muted rampart]

Tell me you know nothing about the tank without telling me you know nothing.

Pen, accuracy and armor are all downsides of the burrasque, not upsides.

I agree it can be criticized for how it still haa inherently a TD damage output on a far superior chassis, but it doesn't come without it's own flaws, unlike other 2 shots

[grave vault]

I'd say we need larger magazines.

Like I'd give WT auf. E 100 it's 11 shot magazine.

But eh it wouldn't fit the Blitz.

[orchid grove]

High clip potential, slower unload tanks, in practice function more like low alpha/high DPM single shooters. They mainly capitalize when gameplay is dynamic, and they can get the exposure time needed to fire all their shells.

Low clip potential/fast unload tanks function more like high alpha single shooter tanks. They slow down the game and reward static gameplay because they don’t need long exposure times. Just shoot the enemy when they make small mistakes, or when they push, and be loaded again when they get to you.

[grave vault]

Then we have the BZT-70 which deals higher damage than it's WoT version.

And somehow WG thought it "fits" into Blitz.

[orchid grove]

There’s nothing wrong with a larger magazine as long as the interclip isn’t too fast. But Blitz players are monkeys who only look at the top line total clip potential

[muted rampart]

Pre nerf TVP moment 🤮

[orchid grove]

OG TVP with the 4 shells and 2.0s interclip was totally fine. No one complained about it. But then everyone cried for faster interclip, and so WG granted that, and it became a totally toxic tank overnight. Funny how that works. Almost like clip potential doesn’t matter. It’s all about the interclip

[grave vault]

There is a perfect balance in between.

And we are eager to break it.

Like IS-3A has a very long intraclip but that thing still plays like a monster. Which indicates long intraclips can work.

Especially for high alpha heavies just like the BZ-176. I actually liked it has an autoloader. The tank is perfect.

Like why did Vz. 55 got it's intraclip reduced from 4s. to 3s.

[rocky sentinel]

I was about to same the same, also I said “troll armor” not “effective armor” and decent pen Doesn’t equal bad or great pen. Its penetration is decent. Also can we research our accuracy values before telling them?

[muted rampart]

Yup i still remember testing it out with 1.5s on OT and i was like who the hell cam up with that?

Even before it came into the game in a training room on OT in like 2 minutes i was able to tell that it was insanely dumb.

And guess what, like 2 weeks later it pretty much instantly flooded the matchmaking and ruined the game for over a year

[orchid grove]

The longer an interclip is, the closer a tank plays to a single shooter with high DPM. The shorter an interclip is, the closer it plays to a high alpha tank.

WG and the playerbase always make the misconception that clip potential is what causes a tank to “fit” or not in Blitz, but it’s really how much it acts like a single-shot tank with that clip potential that matters

Like IS-3 defender as you noted plays very much like a single shooter. But the clip potential is “1200”. On paper, you can “one-clip” TDs and tier VIIs, but it doesn’t matter because the interclip is so long.

[grave vault]

I %100 agree.

The M-IV-Yoh is the perfect example for the first sentence.

[grave vault]

Spitting facts there.

[muted rampart]

I bet you should heed your own advice.

This combined with very short intraclip and poor after shot accuracy is what causes it's accuracy to actually be much worse than stats suggest.

You will never be able to pass on an accurate judgment by simply blindly looking at a few numbers without considering the playstyle of the tank.

[orchid grove]

1.9s aim time is VERY good when you consider the fact that its competition isn’t really the 90mm meds at the rest of the tier, the competition for that gun is the 15cm guns on the Borsig and ISU-152.

[rocky sentinel]

“Oh not a 2 second aiming time” to bad it has the BEST on move.

[muted rampart]

That's base aim time tho, not the actual aim time.

And what matters is, that in reality it will usually take longer to aim than to reload the shell in the clip.

[rocky sentinel]

Also is has a two second introclip, which means by the time ur second shell is loaded you are already aimed in,

[muted rampart]

It's not. Learn the difference beteen base aim time and in game aim time. These are 2 entirely different things.

[prisma jetty]

In game aim time takes into account movement factors while base aim time is just that, the actual aim time of the tank. The in game values are essentially useless as they assume you are moving to some degree

[terse beacon]

LOL yeah very well balanced it's only one of the outright strongest t8s in the game holy clueless bro

[orchid grove]

In-game aim time is meaningless. I only ever look at base aim time

[rocky sentinel]

Yeah

[muted rampart]

Meds? Yes, either the best or 2nd best. Overall? Hell no lol.

[terse beacon]

??? Yes overall. You legitimately have 0 clue what you're talking about homie

[rocky sentinel]

What tanks are you comparing? A heavy to a medium?

We are comparing mediums bro

[muted rampart]

As a stat to compare, in game aim time is indeed a worthless stat.

But when you want to roughly know how long it will actually take you in to aim after you stop in absolute value, you can't use base aim time.

In reality burrasque pretty much never aims quicker than it reloads.

[muted rampart]

As a matter of fact, we are not comparing anything.

We are talking about the overall balance of autoloaders in this game, which is horrible.

[terse beacon]

Except for bourrasque which is apparently very well balanced!

[muted rampart]

Yes, overall the Burrasque would barely fit into Top 10 tanks at T8 if even.

If that is what you mean then i guess lol

[terse beacon]

LOOOL just stop talking atp please

[prisma jetty]

Borrasque competing for top 10 in the tier with the most tanks in game means that it is not balanced lmao

[muted rampart]

For a 2 shot autoloader it is indeed pretty well balanced. If you consider something like Murat to be in a better state than idk where your eyes are

[terse beacon]

Brother in Christ bourrasque is stronger tier for tier than murat is. They overbuffed murat sure but I don't know what sort of mental gymnastics you're trying to go through right now

[queen geyser]

In my opinion the Borat usually gets slightly overrated, the concept of the tank is pretty toxic and broken in a way but performance wise it isnt the carziest there is, in my opinion the Progetto is straight up better

[orchid grove]

I mean, the fact you’re trying to argue Bourrasque is one of the better balanced 2 shell autoloaders just shows how broken 2 shell autoloaders is as a concept

[muted rampart]

I brought it as an example of a direction in which i believe 2 shot autoloaders should head in in order for the game to be in a better state.

Which is in general way lower DPM and derpy accuracy if the gun is suposed to be punchy.

[terse beacon]

In solo a prog is more impactful sure but the main issue with bourrasque is them in a platoon. In that regard it is by far much stronger than any other med at the tier and most heavies as well

[muted rampart]

Even though the tank is very good, it does not straight up dominate as it's performance is hard capped by DPM.

[rocky sentinel]

Ah… and we arrive to the classic DPM argument.

[queen geyser]

Yea it’s toxic but I don’t think it’s that strong ngl

[muted rampart]

Okay I admit I failed to consider a platoon since i haven't played one in like 2 years, but that is a separate problem of all high alpha tanks. Their toxicity increases exponentially as soon as multiple of them coordinate as they can just delete 3/4 of your HP in a matter of seconds.

[terse beacon]

Well I hard disagree it outtrades practically every medium with one shot, let alone having 2 in an extremely short window, while also having lt levels of camo and a ton of hp

[muted rampart]

Yes, and it's classic for a reason.

DPM is a hard cap on performance whether you like it or not.

You can play around that, but it effectively and unquestionably limits what you can do in limited time. You having to specifically play around that is a testimony to it's effectiveness.

DPM is one of the only stats that by itself can make or break a tank.

[terse beacon]

Except it isn't just toxicity it is outright dominance, there is a reason why bourrasque was spammed by so many top players in toons when it first came out. It's like when tvp was in its most busted state, a tvp by itself was pretty strong but nothing crazy just extremely toxic and annoying, however two of them was outright broken and made playing against them extremely difficult

[muted rampart]

Tbh 1.5s 4 shot TVP was broken even by itself, by all means. In toon it was basically a T11

[queen geyser]

I don’t think anything I say will convince you otherwise, just compare it to some other clippers of that tier like progetto or defender mk1

[terse beacon]

Like I already said prog is probably more impactful by itself sure, two is a different story however

[terse beacon]

So is bourrasque G. Your average t8 clipper has a 2.5sec intraclip for 225-240 alpha. Bourrasque does 320 in 2 seconds

[rocky sentinel]

Yeah, I love DPM. Except when I can’t use it on reload every second of every minute, That’s why the DPM argument is so weak. DPM is only useful when you are actively using it, if you aren’t getting that let’s say 2700 DPM out every minute what is it gaining you?

[terse beacon]

Dpm is a stupid argument with bourrasque to begin with seeing as its effective dpm is very good

[rocky sentinel]

Yeah.

Essentially he is the only one saying it’s balanced when two skilled players and other people are telling him it isn’t balanced.

[vapid horizon]

Just my opinion, but Lorraine 50t is unusually slow and inaccurate for the armour it carries. Im not sure why a single shot tank with only 380 alpha has handling closer to autoloaders uptiered from tier 8 than native tier 9 120mm heavies.
The mobility is also weirdly bad for a tank with no hull armour.

[patent helm]

now i am curious on what you think the top 10 at tier viii are

[muted rampart]

1 - 2 53TP/Bisonte
3 Grom
4 T77
5 T54E2
6 - 7 T26E5/Type 63
8 Prog 46
9 > Here i would place Emil Burrasque and Caernarvon, but in no particular order, with Chimera and Def mk 1 right behind. Everything else is a decent amount below them

[patent helm]

caern? never played that thing tbh skipped right to the conq

[muted rampart]

You are missing out on quite a lot of fun. Ever since they buffed the alpha from 190 to 225 without touching the reload it's been one of the best T8 heavies for pubs

[patent helm]

alr ill give it a shot thank you

[rocky sentinel]

You forgot about the Quetzel

[vague fiber]

Bonk bonk bonk bonk and there goes 700 of your health

[vague fiber]

taygete new meta tank

[thorny timber]

Quetzal comes at the bottom 10

[vague fiber]

Quetzal is second just behind bisonte imo. Then its 53tp, def mk1

[orchid grove]

When Caern had reactive, it was quite a force to be reckoned with. Just drive up to people and pummel them with 3k DPM, pop reactive and adrenaline and there’s not much they can do.

Good gun depression, accuracy, and an ok turret are just a cherry on top

[vague fiber]

Def mk1

[rocky sentinel]

Nah nah it’s the best, it has crazy good armor, best accuracy and it’s amazing traverse :>

[drifting egret]

If they've already released the BZT-70, which deals 1,500 damage, why don't they release the Sturmtiger?

[full cedar]

u are missing 183, we have Sturmtiger as easter eggs, and that tank will simply break the game

[sweet quarry]

The KV-2 is a stronger tank than the BZT-70 in Total Domination 🥀

[rocky sentinel]

lol that’s the best part of the people paying 400-1000 doll hairs for the BZT70: The KV2 is literally free and has more DPS and premium penetration in the game mode.

[full cedar]

yeah but you wont be playing Total Domination forever right?

[rocky sentinel]

True, but I wouldn’t play the BZT70 forever and evidently the player base won’t either.

[somber plinth]

380mm =10 mil damage

[marble willow]

Give the 114-sp2 better aiming time

[heady iris]

please buff the pen of bc 25 t . 235 pen at tier 10 ???????????????

[marble willow]

Theres something called calibrated shells

[low tartan]

real, I still have no clue why people don't choose it on tanks with magazine

[marble willow]

Its rare to see people use vents. But the people who do that tend to be better at the game

[uneven turtle]

I used to run vents on bc back when it was in it prime

Makes me feel old saying that now

341m view range and that 350x3 ap standard was so peak

[vestal parcel]

There’s an issue where tanks get stuck way too easily on tiny terrain details (small bumps, slight elevations, or small gaps).
This affects large, flat tanks like the Groundtank or the BZT-70 even more, since their design makes them more likely to get stuck in places where they shouldn’t.
In the end you just become free damage, and many times it’s basically a guaranteed loss, not because of skill but because of the terrain. If this isn’t addressed, these tanks end up being more of a disadvantage than a viable option.

[uneven turtle]

pretty sure reforged will also be dealing with that issue

[heady dagger]

yeah, I remember when I first played game in 2016 the game set me to APAC sever but a gamer I knew told me the game is better in european server so I switched to europe region and my ping was good for that era like ~200ms in 2016 I guess never felt any lagging shuttering back in 2016 but then I moved to mobile version with APAC, and now APAC is my main regions for years. I wish they add servers in UAE or Pakistan under APAC region. waiting for reforged update 🤞

what's the role for developers in this channel??

[rocky sentinel]

I would also love to see it have better base accuracy and on movement dispersion.

[burnt venture]

114 SP2 needs way more than that lol. It basically has no armor, poor accuracy, and doesn't stand out in any way whatsoever

Originally WG designed this tank to have almost the same HP as the Maus, but with poor armor so it had to trade shot for shot. Current version is just another boring heavy tank, and now is completely outclassed by the 30 other high alpha / autoloader heavy tanks

[marble willow]

I agree with both takes. The only real enjoyment factor is the 620 alpha + heavy hp pool. Everything else is so, so

Balancing wise the good thing is that theres a lot to work with

[rocky sentinel]

Yeah, but then again a 60TP has better DPS, tungsten, armor, mobility, and I think better accuracy. But the same could be said about the 15CM on the E100. Except the E100 only has a few slight advantages.

[twin egret]

they tried making it a SPHT before the SPHT was a thing and failed at it

[burnt venture]

it didn't fail lol, they just changed it back to a regular heavy tank for some reason

It was decently good to play and wasn't overperforming whatsoever

[uneven turtle]

Balanced in a sea of very strong tanks

[heady dagger]

guys why does packet drops make the aiming circle go ultra pro max size.

and also the aiming circle doesn't start shrinking for like 5-10 sec.

[uneven turtle]

That’s visual, you’re actually already aimed in, I know cus it’s happened to me before

[heady dagger]

thank bud

[marble willow]

Man a 114 with chinese level aimtime + tungsten holy hell that sounds like a blast

[rocky sentinel]

I feel like if it had that it would be extremely good, but I’d say it would be a little too good possibly OP. Chinese aiming time would be great alone, along with a slight base dispersion buff.

Or they could go down the route of the tier nine Chinese 114 and give it 2700 base HP and reactive.

[marble willow]

I agree it does need a dispersion buff. Reactive could work but thats a tad boring.

[twin egret]

they should've made it a TD instead of a heavy imo

PC has it as a TD with no armor, but enough to block HE from penning p much

[pale cypress]

I think skoda t 27 need a buff

Basically, he doesn't need dispersion or aiming time, he just needs an armor buff that, until the next WG WoT game, leaves him at tier 7, and in WoT Blitz he's at tier 9, so he can be matched with tanks with high penetration like jg, 183s, 268s, etc. Therefore, he could gain 100 more damage and more turret armor like Wz and 121b.

[rocky sentinel]

Rage bait or genuinely the worst opinion I have seen in 2026.

[vague fiber]

His takes are weird but it does need a buff imo

[rocky sentinel]

Just needs over 320 premium pen and it’s good.

[zinc osprey]

And 310 alpha cuz 280 is just weird

[rocky sentinel]

No, no and no. We don’t need a tier nine that can deal 930 damage in 3 seconds.

[vague fiber]

This

[zinc osprey]

We need tho

[hushed token]

No we dont

[primal mauve]

return Skoda T27 to t8 with 660 clip potential,17s clip reload
armour could be like the current t9 (istg t27 looks so fat)
why would you play T27 at t9 when Skoda T50 exists

[grave vault]

Same with the VK 168.

[lime spruce]

can we like, nerf blaze armour

that ding is so satisfying lowk

[lilac crest]

Low profile...I guess..

[thorny timber]

<@&481447501690568709> compromised

[primal yacht]

✅ lazar998 was banned.

[marble willow]

I actually second this

[grave plinth]

Thinking of buff wz113 dpm🤗😇

[remote pawn]

This guy bro oh my lord.

[rocky sentinel]

Now, do you think this guy actually thinks the WZ113 needs a DPM buff or do you think he is just saying it to annoy y’all?

[rocky sentinel]

Faster introclip, and aiming time Ig

[remote pawn]

I may consider blocking them for the time being

[scenic vector]

BZT-70 needs a balance review.

I have 66% win rate on my account, around 2,700 average damage overall, and around 3,100 average damage on tier X. But after 100 battles in the BZT-70, I have below 48% win rate and only around 2,500 average damage.

That is why this tank does not feel “unique” or “hard to master” — it feels underpowered and frustrating.

The most illogical part is its concept: the tank has huge mass and very low speed, and visually it looks closer to something like a heavily armored T95-style vehicle, yet in battle it gets penetrated frontally by almost any caliber, even through the turret. For a tank built like this, that makes no sense.

The armor is too weak for such poor mobility, the ammo rack gets damaged too often, and the gun handling feels bad overall: low accuracy, long aim time, long reload, and low consistency. On top of that, it gets spotted too easily, which makes all of these problems even worse.

Please review its armor, gun reliability, ammo rack survivability, reload, mobility, and concealment.

[uneven turtle]

Is this satirical

[rocky sentinel]

Anyone who is complaining about the BZT70 just tells me they are mad they spent money on it and are surprised when it sucks(even though the stats have been out for the past 5+ months). If it was effective it would screw over the play base and battles. It should be a piece of crap because it has the high DPS. Caliban is balanced because it has nothing but the DPS and HESH. The 183 isn’t balanced because it is actually somewhat effective.

And it actually has decent turret armor when using gun depression so idk what you are talking about.

[remote pawn]

https://tenor.com/view/an-iq-too-high-raven-crow-tiktok-gif-3869671553367641450

[rocky sentinel]

Bro is actually Einstein.

[scenic olive]

What makes you think the skoda t27 is a guy

[muted rampart]

Is this a joke?

BZT is indeed garbage, but it's garbage precisely because it is suposed to be garbage.

No one wants a 1300 alpha heavy tank to be actually competent, it will make T10 unplayable

[scenic vector]

I am not asking for BZT-70 to be overpowered.

I am saying that a tank sold at this level should at least be playable and capable of average results in the hands of a good player. Right now, it performs far below my normal tier X standards in both win rate and damage, which means it is not just “balanced by weaknesses” — it is simply undertuned.

[wary saddle]

That is intended, it has to be undertuned all solely because of its gimmick, being such a High calibre tank.

[muted rampart]

No, it shouldn't.

You knew what you are buying, be content with it.

No tank that has more than 800 damage per shot on a high pen round should ever be capable of regularly achieving average results.

It is garbage because it's suposed to be garbage. End of story.

[rocky sentinel]

Yes, it is balanced by it weaknesses. It’s supposed to perform bad, it’s not supposed to be a tank that should be performing well, it’s a “Lo0k GuyS I slapped someone for 1200”.

[muted rampart]

"Hehe big numbers go boom"

[rocky sentinel]

Exactly, except I can drive in autoloader and achieve better results then if I drive the BZT70 🫠

[muted rampart]

Autoloaders being OP is a whole another story.

[scenic vector]

Garbage for 500-1000 USD? It's a mockery of the most solvent and loyal players!

[grave vault]

We should add SPG's to counter auto loaders trust me.

[muted rampart]

Yes. Garbage.

You knew what you were buying. No one forced you to spend all that money on a horrible tank.

[scenic vector]

You say that because you didn't spend 500 USD for this tank.

[wary saddle]

???

Because who does except people who have nothing to do with their disposable expenses

[grave vault]

Wait what.

[muted rampart]

I wouldn't say any different even if i bought it. I did buy a few bad tanks myself in the past and i don't come here to cry about that.

Just the fact that you spent money doesn't entitle you to ruin the game for everyone else.

BZT is just as bad as it should.

[scenic vector]

Toxic community here, good luck

[wary saddle]

So by default, people who bought the tank by over a hundred dollars should justify for a buff? Have you thought of a game balance and not actually focus on being biased

So being neutral is toxic, yea lovely

[cinder shard]

Tanks with derp guns and extremely high alpha aren't really reliable or consistent, to be fair. The tank has the highest alpha damage out of any Tier 10 heavy and rivals the highest in the entire game. With that in mind, it also has to have some big drawbacks. Sure, the tank could benefit from some very minor improvements, but it's a very delicate line between underwhelming and overpowered/toxic. Even with slight buffs, the tank will never be reliable due to the nature of the gun, similar to the FV183.
It's simply a one-trick pony/meme machine and not a consistent performer.

[muted rampart]

Toxic community?

You are the toxic one expecting WG to damage the quality of gameplay for everyone else, just because you are salty about wasting money on a horrible tank

[wary saddle]

Games community has their own toxicity by default so i don't know what that statement tries to prove

[rocky sentinel]

You had the stats out since 2026, you knew what you were buying, and still spent 400+ USD on it. You have nobody to blame but yourself, nobody is forcing you to buy it. The 183 is LITERALLY FREE, and better and you still chose to buy it.

[wary saddle]

It's not about forcing

It's the expectations

[rocky sentinel]

Expecting a tank to be good even though anyone reviewing the tank when the stats were out or anyone who could read and know how to play would have said “it’s trash”.

It’s like paying someone to roast you, even though you know you will be roasted, and then complaining about it.

[pale cypress]

Tanks have gender?

[uneven turtle]

Tank that has a notorious reputation of being bad. Comes out on auction

“Hmm I think I’ll get this tank since if I pay a lot, it has to be good right?”

Ignores the stats, doesn’t research into the more skilled player’s opinion on it. Obtains it. Disappointment. Denial. Expects sympathy, gets ridiculed for not having taken the basic measures of understand what you’re walking into(in this case buying the bzt70 via auctions), proceeds to blame everyone else save for themselves.

Nice

[hollow wind]

Still, would be nice if the ammo rack wasn't nearly as weak

[pale cypress]

He is chinese

[uneven turtle]

P.S

You could’ve possibly gotten it for much cheaper if you’d actually looked into the fact that bzt70 had crates for it coming

Actually, even if you got it via obtaining all 50 charms, it still would’ve been cheaper than 500 usd

Another loss on your behalf 🙂

[rocky sentinel]

Oh yeah crates were cheaper. “OH but the legendary camouflage.”

[remote pawn]

Allat for a Megatron themed camo and 4 digits

[primal mauve]

you just need 3s to get 660 damage out so it's pretty crazy dangerous

[rocky sentinel]

Well, it’s 250 DPS now, which is 750 damage clipping potential.

[burnt venture]

It already decreases the quality of gameplay for everyone else in its current state lol

BZT is better than the 183 in a multitude of ways, especially in terms of flexibility so you can do things that were never possible in the 183
And then there's Type 5 which is even more insane

[rugged furnace]

183 better

[burnt venture]

183 is better if you're unskilled. It's a lower floor tank but the BZT has a higher ceiling

[rugged furnace]

im just rage baiting you broh

i didnt play blitz for like 3 months

[burnt venture]

BZT can also easily be more consistent than the 183. You have more HP to trade away and the gun depression and the armor means you can take your time aiming in shots, and dictate the timing of the engagement, instead of sniping in a 183

But yeah 183 is definitely easier to play because it takes zero positioning on most maps to do something. BZT if you're in the wrong spot u get no damage or are just dead

[pearl pebble]

In which channel should I show my ideas for the game?

[remote pawn]

<@&481447501690568709>

[primal yacht]

✅ neo_659 was banned.

[thorny elm]

I think you should add 4 magazines to the Future character, similar to the PC version. It would help attract more players to buy it=>>>>>>

[brazen steeple]

We should buff the jag back to its 2022-2023 state when WZ-113GFT was at its meta

[heady dagger]

🤣

[lime spruce]

what's the difference between Panther 8.8 and Panther II?

[crimson palm]

Gamemode: capture the flag..................Teams: 7 versus 7..........time limit........10 minutes instead of 7..........rules......flag spawns in middle of map............first player to capture it (fastest tank) now needs to get it to his base single flag zone (circle zone of roughly 50m)..........if player is shot (penetrated not HEd) then he drops the flag and is stunned for 5 seconds (able to use only gun and turret to shoot other player enemy who picks up flag...........if player is shot dropping flag in 50m zone points are captured till flag is actually taken by opposite team out of zone......flag respawns to middle of map if it isnt taken in a span of when it falls of 20 seconds first team who manages to get max flag points or timelimit points....wins.....penetration area in red is invisible like current total domination Forgotten rule: a player that is shot with one last hit to kill is out of the game for good....it means players must be mindfull of their health in relation to the guns on the battlefield....another forgotten rule..respawns are endless

Devs if you read this adding such a gamemode is both competitive enough for comp matches and fun for players in general.....choose to be toxic and go in autoloader style saving each clip to have players drop a flag...or save each clip to take out players with last shot health pools remaining per ypur gun damage type....or be a sneaky light and keep driivng past flag carriers and hit them then snatch for your team.........possibilities are endless for this gamemode...be really cool and fun 😁

[crimson palm]

panther 8.8 is given a rating of only 8.8 by the player base..while the panther II is 2 times more convinient for the playerbase to put it realistically one has an 88mm gun of the tiger II type I believe and the other a 10.5cm gun if I recall

[muted rampart]

Then you are wrong.

[muted rampart]

You can compare them on blitz kit, i believe 8,8 has a bit more DPM, but slightly worse armor.

Both of these tanks are very similar though.

[lone warren]

Panther II has a 240 alpha gun whilst the Panther 8,8 gets 220 alpha.

8,8 has better aimtime and accuracy when moving

Panther 8,8 also gets special consumables (special speed boost, reactive armour and tungsten shells) whereas Panther II does not get them.

[terse beacon]

Panther 8.8 is a worse version except its a premium and has ton of consumables

Yes, but it was already better beforehand. Pretty sure 8.8 also got buffs but they were minor

[lime spruce]

So, 8.8 is a more shoot on the go, more accurate version than Panther II.
Thing is, unlike 8.8, I can brawl better with II cause of armour. Though I rarely use special consumables.

[scenic olive]

Bring back 55kph 263 back🥹 and make its engine power ridiculous

[twin egret]

what panther ii has massively overweighs the consumables the 8,8 gets sadly

[vapid horizon]

Vk 168, Somua SM, and E-75ts need buffs

All three could use gun handling buffs, E-75ts could use a dpm buff, Vk 168 could use an armour buff, and somua just needs decent gun handling.

[twin egret]

somua needs a faster rate of ascent/descent on the gun

[terse cairn]

E75 ts needs more turret armor

[primal mauve]

buff the T26E4 Super Pershing
power to weight ratio (11.6--> 13.4)
increase alpha damage
AP 225 --> 250
APCR 190 --> 210
HE 270--> 285

Armor:
undercheeks of the turret (96mm-->112mm)

Consumable: Reactive Armour

[vapid horizon]

I dont know if that is even a displayed statistic ngl.

[uneven turtle]

standard gets 240 at most, prammo can go maybe 200

it doesnt need reactive, the front just needs to become spaced armor in accordance to the metal slab welded to it

[lilac crest]

Why vk72 front armor so weak isn't supposed to be impenetrable isn't it?

[uneven turtle]

Blame cali buff + ea nerf

[bitter delta]

give the type 71 sandbags

[vapid horizon]

Increase Lorraine 50t top speeds to 47/17kph

[uneven turtle]

2km top speed buff
Raw p2w ratio 14.5 -> 16(at least)
Medium terrain resist 74 -> 90

Base Reload shaved down from 9.88 -> 9.23 (2307 -> 2470 damage per minute)

That’s just my suggestion

Actually 43kmph is already pretty fast for heaviums

[vapid horizon]

Its not slow, but it also has zero hull armour. I just think it needs abit more top speed that it can utilize and it would be fine.

[rocky sentinel]

Give all heavys sandbags

[hasty sluice]

Buff the STG

And the gun of OBJ252U needs love too, accuracy or reload time needs love. Or keep the gun bad and buff the lower plate like it is on wot pc

Buff the T-34-3, also the weird Maus tank that has been converted to tier IX

[cinder shard]

VK 168

[hasty sluice]

Ye, it sucks now, must be buffed

Or make Obj252u armor stronger and alpha damage 440 and move it to tier IX. That would be the best solution for the tank

[primal mauve]

massively agree

[hasty sluice]

😄

[hasty sluice]

It would also be nice if the game had more color options, if you wanted your tanks to be a certain color like green... You know the basic color options tanki online has as an example, I think it would be nice since the game is no longer atempting realism much...

[uneven pike]

should never been a T9, in fact I don't think WG have uptier any tank worth getting uptier

[uneven turtle]

kpz 70 was handled pretty well

[lofty trench]

i need 2 more class tier 2 badges to get rank 20!!!

[heady dagger]

bug in new event <@&481447501690568709> @brisk cedar

[cinder shard]

[brave dragon]

can you explain what the problem is?
screenshot?

video?

[heady dagger]

place holder name

see the event banner

[heady dagger]

here

[brave dragon]

Okay,

There is a channel: #silver-winged-cavalry-event ( unless it is another channel ( but this one is for tank balance )

And I think the text problem has already been forwarded to devs.

[heady dagger]

ohh, I thought as this channel is grouped under chat with devs, the issues have to be reported here. and this event is different from silver winged cavalry.

[brave dragon]

All good 🙂

Busy days, lots going on discord, ...

[heady dagger]

I have silver winged cavalry event shown, this event has something to do with tanker rings.

[brave dragon]

I have not even had time to look in game 🫣

I probably should open it up to check for myself

[heady dagger]

yeah, the reforged date just got announced, you guys would have been spammed with messages.

[brave dragon]

Yes, I think I saw somewhere that Binu saw it.

[heady dagger]

thanks a lot for your attention 🫶

[winter fulcrum]

How can I not pen a Tier III panzer from the front tank with 105mm barrel on the T92E1 in total domination?!

[pale cypress]

Bc he is 175% buffed

The Skoda T-27 could have improved armor like
Turret armor
85>150
chassis 85>140
sides 85>100
damage 190-250 > 200-250

[rocky sentinel]

Idk bro, you tell me. Also why are you running the stock gun? I feel like that answers my question on why you are surprised.

[solemn olive]

IMO lets give the pz2j gear oil, it is clearly too slow. Telling me no is not an option.

[deep pewter]

in total domination panzer III got around 300mm front armor

[nimble zodiac]

no

[solemn olive]

What did you say to me you little chicken man?!

[solemn olive]

You know what? Your right. It shouldn't

[nimble zodiac]

[solemn olive]

How are we feeling about the Nemisis? I just bought it back to try out hesh memes in fun mode and IDK about it. Double gas, double speed boost, and it still feels like it could use some gear oil or just top speed boost. I am iffy about the gun so far. Hard to make hesh work sometimes.

[ionic egret]

it's quite decent, i personally enjoy it

[twin egret]

Should be a tier 9 imo but it's fine rn

[tepid moss]

nerf kv2 pls, is horribl to play against

[fallow eagle]

When are we getting a kranvagn nerf
Its so annoying to counter a kran plat
They rush to a hulldown spot and stay there without any opposition
Only counter to a kran plat is a kran plat

[twin egret]

You can splash with HE pretty reliably if you got like a 150mm gun

Kran needs an HP, interclip reload nerf, and alpha damage nerf(to 400) imo

[cinder shard]

Would you not resort to personal insults?

[surreal violet]

?

[uneven turtle]

remove sand bags from kran, revert intra clip back to 3 or maybe increase to 3.5 and nerf alpha down to 390

It’ll keep its role as a hulldown god but lose out on other capabilities

It’s not deserving of high sustainability outside of hulldown due to its high hp and eff dpm

[surreal violet]

just give it the kran that was first added into blitz

worse dpm than 116 rn

[shadow schooner]

delete total domination

[stark wind]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1007938934107541525/1137087773115957389/togif.gif

[deft echo]

its a prrr-fect fun mode addition wdym

[vague fiber]

Alpha doesn’t need nerf. Just nerf turre and sandbags

[lilac crest]

What the point I have like nose for if it can't strong enough to bounce heat

[vague fiber]

Turret

[lilac crest]

6And turret so useless. thicker than IS-4 BUT BIG WEAK SPOT AGAINST HEAT

[vague fiber]

Are you smoking?

[subtle mulch]

5A or 6A?

nvm its is6 i believe

[lilac crest]

Is-7

[vague fiber]

We were talking about kran

[subtle mulch]

oh dang sry

[lilac crest]

I'm talking about IS-7 are u drunk?

[vague fiber]

You didn’t mention it at the start bot

[lilac crest]

Did I see what u guy talking to???? I don't even care what u guy talking about kran or what Duck

[vague fiber]

I can’t see is7 in this but maybe I’m blind

[lilac crest]

And did I mention kran?

[vague fiber]

No? But the previous discussion was about kran

[lilac crest]

And did i was in previous discussion?

[vague fiber]

English please

[lilac crest]

German please

[vague fiber]

Who would’ve thought giving an impenetrable turret hulldown would be a ba odea? You have no clue what you’re talking about

[cinder shard]

Are you two done?

[vague fiber]

Do you think we should nerf the kran

[grave vault]

Hell naw bro what.

[lilac crest]

Impenetrable???? U can Literally blast kran with He

[vague fiber]

Yeah, and do like 13 damage every shot while the kran clips you for 1200

[cinder shard]

That's not relevant.
What is is that you both discuss it like civil people and stick to the rules

[lilac crest]

What the reason to play kran if there's no turrst armor????

Sidescrape?

[vague fiber]

Nerfingg does not equal turning it to paper fgs omgg this is a lost case

[lilac crest]

It's not strong bro it's can be pen

[vague fiber]

Definitely.

[lilac crest]

Just leave kran turret and remove sandbag

[vague fiber]

Remove the autoreloader or nuke the dpm too, remove speed boost and reticle cali

[lilac crest]

Can you please talk like a normal human being? Not like a arrogant and annoying? U can he kran with jg and deal 300 or more

[vague fiber]

Sorry to break it to you but not everyone is playing high caliber tanks like 183 or jag. Can you think like a normal human being and not have the most messed up takes?

[lilac crest]

So u gonna said u play a tank like IS-7 and struggling to deal with hulldown kran?????

[vague fiber]

Uh yes, because you poke them and do them and deal like 90 splaSH HE, and then shoot you multiple times for 400

[lilac crest]

So why I deal 100-200???

[wicked iron]

not much of a difference

[vague fiber]

Ok. 100-200 vs 400x 2 or 3. Nice trade!!! Not to mention kran literally has 2700 hp with double sandbags

[grave vault]

Chat what if we agree in the middle.

We make the Kranvagn an auto loader instead of* the auto reloader. Like in the WoT.

[wicked iron]

so emil 1 but tier 10

[vague fiber]

That’s what I said but clearly there is no need as he could beat a hulldown kran with is7 HE only

[grave vault]

Yeah because it's a tech tree tank.

[wicked iron]

it should be fine

[lilac crest]

See u struggling on Hp not armor

[vague fiber]

If they want to keep the autoreloader, it should at least get its turret nerfed to like emil2 where it’s only effective hulldown

[vague fiber]

Yo are you okay?

[wicked iron]

what does that mean

[lilac crest]

Turret like Emil? That can't bounce a shot?

[vague fiber]

Celly needs help we will support them unconditionally

[grave vault]

Why are we comparing the IS-7 with Kranvagn in the first place. 💔

[wicked iron]

emil 2 turret can be penned if not hulldown, not kran

[vague fiber]

We aren’t.

[shadow schooner]

bad teammates, no earning of xp/creds whatsoever, not fun at all, worst mode oat

[lilac crest]

Even hulldown it's still can be pen

[wicked iron]

not reliably

[grave vault]

A'ight.

[vague fiber]

Mind sharing a screenshot of you penning a hulldown kran?

[lilac crest]

We talking about Emil??

[vague fiber]

He said “not kran”

[lilac crest]

But I mean emil

[vague fiber]

Ok. So kran does have turret armour that needs nerf

[lilac crest]

Yes just remove the sandbags

[slate talon]

I remember the wot pc youtuber Chems suggetion of adding a little slity under the gun of kran to nerf it

[vague fiber]

You are contradicting the statement. Kran needs turret nerf. Yes/no

[slate talon]

if there is a slit then kran needs to depress its gun fully down to hide it which exposes its coupla

[lilac crest]

No

[vague fiber]

Thought he was sane for a moment there

[lilac crest]

No need to touch kran turret

[vague fiber]

whatever you say bro

[lilac crest]

What if Wg give krang -12deg and nerf turret from 225 to 200-215?

[wheat quest]

Kran is hatch able but its not ez unless ur gun is hyper accurate like an e6

[uneven turtle]

The kran could just look up idk

Kran has more dpm and more hp and more alpha than it deserves

Why should it get the possibility of out trading 400 alpha and below hts which make up quite a large portion of the ht tank alphas in t10, as well as the capacity to do decently well outside of a hulldown situation

It needs sandbags removed and a longer intra clip, as well as an alpha drop to 390

Or if the intra clip and alpha are to be untouched, it needs a standard pen nerf so it’s more prone to using prammo therefore lowering effective dpm, while still keeping essentially the same offensive capabilities against less armored tanks

-# And give it back APCR standard teehee

[vague fiber]

410 alpha is fine. Nerf dpm, remove all sepcial provisions and consumables

[soft void]

Can we nerf the 183 some way like worse armor or worse camo or even accuracy

[muted rampart]

It's already the worst T10 in the game. It's bad enough

While i also do hate it, if you were to nerf it anymore, you can just remove it at that point

[soft void]

Yet some how it always ruins my games

[muted rampart]

Well be more cautious next time

[grave plinth]

Nerf kravangn turret and tourvangn when hulldown please😭

[wheat quest]

somehow the twagon is even better than the concept 1b in some situations

[marble willow]

Well yes because the hull armor isnt weak

[lime spruce]

give tanks with clips the option to have a single shot gun (Auto loader tansks only). Carro is good, very nice autoloader, but I'd prefer a single shot for brawling instead of having to wait after a mag dump (not including 4th round.)

[vague fiber]

Ifferent tanks exist or a reason

[lime spruce]

carro is perfect as is for me, i just want a diff gun man.

[terse beacon]

Then play a different tank, of all the tanks that deserve multiple guns carro is not one of them

[fallen mist]

If there is a line that could work with that suggestion, that would probably be the Minotauro line, cause both the tier 7 and 8 have access to a single shot gun, yet the tier 9 and 10 don't.

CC MK II could use a 460 alpha single shot with the same pen as the autoreloader gun, but a faster reload, about 10.64 seconds.

Mino would get a 510 alpha single shot with at least a 11.65 reload, same pen as the autoreloader gun.

[bitter hedge]

Worst t10 tank in history

enhance bzt pls

[nimble zodiac]

Consider that maybe it deserves it

[clear shuttle]

if it was good im sure you'd be complaining when going against it. all it is is a 183 that takes up a heavy slot in a game

[bitter hedge]

i use more than 500usd to get this tank but it can’t bring me happy like wot’s bzt

In wotb bzt like worse fv183

[thorny timber]

No its better than the 183

And perhaps think twice before spending 500 bucks on a tank? We had the stats even before it came to auction

[bitter hedge]

better？

[terse cairn]

E6 gun isn't anything hyper accurate

[bitter hedge]

look those data do you still bzt is better?

bzt is ht, but it armor is worse than td

[thorny timber]

Yes? It still has decent armor in hulldown, It doesn't have a rear turret and it is a heavy, so more survivability by itself

Player stats barely play a role in how good a tank is, because then you can say that leo 1, grille 15 and the 268 are the top 5 worst tanks with the 183 and the bzt on top, which is just blatantly wrong

[uneven turtle]

This guy can’t be real

[marble willow]

Facts

[hollow wind]

I bought the tank with the knowledge that it was for memes only. One of if not my lowest wr tank at tier 10. But it is very fun for me so I don't care lol. Only thing I would ask for is a bit better module health for the ammo rack.

[bitter hedge]

hull armor only 170mm mean tire 6 tank can easy pen it, bzt can’t do any normal ht work

[hollow wind]

And 183 can't do normal TD work really, what's your point?

[bitter hedge]

bzt’s ammo rack only 190hp

[hollow wind]

I'm sorry you aren't happy with your purchase, maybe look into it more before buying next time.

[thorny timber]

We had the stats and the armor of the bzt way before even before it was released, yet you still spent 500 bucks on it without being aware?

[bitter hedge]

normal td can support team 183 also can, but normal ht need go frontline but bzt can’t

[hollow wind]

It sucks alone, cause once you fire you can be pushed easily. It can sidescrape ok, go hulldown fine enough. Not all HT's are frontline, some are better as supports. 50B has no armour you have to play opportunistically in it.

[bitter hedge]

50b have mobility and dispersion armor not very important but bzt don’t have mobility and dispersion also don’t have good armor that’s problem

[hollow wind]

Almost as if it was designed this way due to having a 183 gun with a fully traversable turret to try balance its toxic nature out. It isn't a good tank. But it is funny when it works. It is essentially a caliban with t10 matchmaking which is tougher to make work than in t8. Except it has got enough armour to work even if not comfortably.

[bitter hedge]

every tank only play by myself can know how performance is, such as: ae, felice, obj.268/4, 114sp2 etc

I get those tank at first time, lost of tanks give me different feeling after I play

[bitter hedge]

183 can turn turret use face to miss some damage

[wispy mist]

Dev!!! Give my BZ-176 its 10 degree of gun dipression and my life is yours!!! But for real tho pls buff this thing. It's a heavy with no armour, giving it this atleast make it more flexible and buff it turret cheek when hulldown

[hollow wind]

You can do the same in the BZT, aswell as gun block.

Anyways gl coping

[wispy mist]

For context this BZ-176 is from PC

[bitter hedge]

but you need consider distance

[remote pawn]

Hundreds of dollars down the drain just to get a supercharged fat BZ-75 with the mindset of a 183

[bitter hedge]

here have another reason

bzt is cool

[hollow wind]

I got it for the equivalent of 120 usd from crates. Don't regret it lol.

[remote pawn]

Larp

[remote pawn]

Each container is roughly like 5 bucks i think? Still think it's expensive though but whatever floats your boat

[hollow wind]

First game in *this session, I got ammo racked again! I did hit a leo for 1448 so it was worth if from that alone.

[hollow wind]

Yeah I bought 25 crates total. Definitely do not recommend gambling ever. Especially for something like this.

[marble willow]

Youre running prot kit right?

[bitter hedge]

because ammo racked only 190hp

[hollow wind]

Of course

It's my 6th rack in 137 games now. Tbh it is lower than I expected which is nice.

[marble willow]

Yes yes

[bitter hedge]

If you want avoid rack, you must need give front hull to enemy

[grave vault]

I absolutely agree, BZ-176 needs buffs.

[bitter hedge]

bz176 and bzt have same problem - armor

[marble willow]

Give the wz-121 1 more degree of gun depression

https://tenor.com/view/yuji-yuji-modulo-yuji-itadori-jujutsu-kaisen-jjk-modulo-gif-1514591625635190461

[nimble zodiac]

They don't deserve armor, mainly for BZT.

Outttrade enemies. Don't make it so that the enemies it's shooting can't even deal damage back

[primal mauve]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/931941655681056828/1497865036851449947/phonecrack.gif

[elder hearth]

Hi

[muted rampart]

You knew what you were buying, that's on you. Stats were public for months before the tank was released, everyone knew it will be trash.

You can't expect WG to ruin everyone's experience in the game just because you are salty of wasting 500$ on a garbage tank

[scenic hazel]

Bzt seems balanced imo, people said it was overpowered when it first encountered in testing so wg nerfed it

[muted rampart]

It was never overpowered, but it's stats were way too good for what it is suposed to be. Very good that they nerfed it

[uneven turtle]

These bzt stats complaints in accordance to money spent is seriously getting repetitive ☺️

[terse cairn]

Why does nobody talk about bz 74? That thing is hella mid and also expensive. I do think it needs a bit of turret armor

[hushed token]

Thing is so ahh not even the owners of BZ 74 remember its existence

[high swift]

Give T-34/100 more gun dispersion please

[vapid horizon]

Tank's alpha needs to be standardized. 100mm guns should do 280 or 310, 105mm guns should do 350, 120mm guns should do 400 etc. It is entirely useless that weird alphas have just been sprinkled around.

[high swift]

The tank doesn't even fit in the tech tree it is

[pastel shadow]

Guys on god on normal WOT has better teammates than blitz

[carmine eagle]

should BZ-176 get HESH like bz75?

[primal yacht]

✅ 1rnz_ was banned.

[vague fiber]

no

[odd oriole]

КТО В ТАНКИ ПО ДС?

[cyan coral]

English only please. There is a seperate discord for RU

[stoic marsh]

Maybe

I mean the tank will be very strong if it gets hesh

[wheat quest]

In my exp thing does not miss. Ive hatched krans B2b with it

[grave vault]

Absolutely.

[primal yacht]

@odd oriole, please note, that the official language of this server is English. If you want to speak Russian/Ukrainian, please join the server below.
Официальным языком этого сервера является английский. Если вы хотите говорить на русском, пожалуйста, присоединяйтесь к серверу ниже.
Офіційною мовою цього сервера є англійська. Якщо ви хочете говорити українською, будь ласка, приєднуйтесь до сервера нижче.
https://discord.gg/mkNtBAYcWy

[vapid horizon]

Buff Lorraine 40t

[remote pawn]

Needs more of a gun buff tbh

[vapid horizon]

Gun handling would be great

[hoary anvil]

In support of it, it's really fallen out of the meta

[shy nymph]

Calibrated should be nerfed.

If you want longer matches, the calibrated shot shouldn't increase penetration by more than 20 millimeters

The game is boring to play and watch, the tanks are weak compared to how they were in 2022

I miss the days when tanks were good

[uneven turtle]

It’s not that the tanks are weak now

It’s that some tanks are too good

[scenic hazel]

Obviously the autoloaders are too good

[rocky sentinel]

If you think about it, Calibrated shells inadvertently gave tanks more effective DPM. Because they are bouncing less, less premium shells are being used, and less skill is being used as well.

[high swift]

Give TVP VTU an autoloader

[dry palm]

Or removed.

[shy nymph]

Tell that to type 71

[uneven turtle]

Again, type 71 was generally untouched, it’s just everything else got stronger against it due to cali buff and ea nerf

If cali wasn’t buffed its armor would still be respectable at the sense that prammo might struggle to pen it when angled

[shy nymph]

fault of the calibrated

But they shouldn't have given HP and taken away all the mobility the tank had

The equipment on it became almost useless

[uneven turtle]

At the end of the day type 71s biggest appeal is that prammo it has

Which still doesn’t suffice in the current meta unfortunately

[rocky sentinel]

Its armor isn’t as bad as it looks when I drive it. And people forget how accurate its gun is.

[shy nymph]

They should have given him the lowest HP among the heavies, with decent DPM, while making his mobility significantly better

[rocky sentinel]

It’s called the E6

[uneven turtle]

So just a psuedo version of wot pc’s type 71?

[shy nymph]

No, it would be a more balanced version of what it was before

[uneven turtle]

Buffing the mobility significantly and giving it better dpm without changing its armor profile would be excessive

The hp reduction isn’t enough of a trade off

I’m also assuming that it’s going to keep the special equipment

[shy nymph]

In my opinion, this would be the most balanced approach in the current meta

[rocky sentinel]

So, the broken version of the E50M but a heavy? Sounds fantastic.

[terse cairn]

In pc iirc type 71 has much more gun depression and stronger turret armor but worse hull armor

[uneven turtle]

Yep ik

[shy nymph]

That would be the way to compete with the meta

Does anyone here think that the Type 71 currently outperforms the 215b or the GSO?

[terse cairn]

Don't know about gsor but 215b might outperform it due to better dpm, mobility and almost similar hp

[shy nymph]

The difference is that he has hesh, super power, and 3k DPM lol

gso with 12 degrees and more than 3k of dpm

[uneven turtle]

This is why we have power creep

[terse cairn]

Also funnily enough it can also have up to 2700 HP

[rocky sentinel]

The meta is trash, and giving it all of that just makes it worse. I rather have a few OP tanks then everything being OP and games ending way faster then they already do.

[uneven turtle]

Never about nerfing the overcooked tanks, always about buffing actually balanced tanks

[shy nymph]

So we have to hope that no meta tanks end up on the enemy team? Seriously?

[uneven turtle]

So I guess your team always doesn’t have a meta tank

[terse cairn]

Well in every game you will find atleast one concept 1b

[shy nymph]

The truth is that even if Type 71 is buffed, it would still struggle against the current meta

[rocky sentinel]

This game will never be balanced unless there is tanks that are balanced. Nobody except you thinks the type 71 needs its OG broken state. Also, when has there ever consistently been a game with a matchup that has one side that has a meta lineup while the other has a bunch of super heavies?

[shy nymph]

It should have come with 2200 hp, and with slightly worse aiming, but they decided to destroy the tank

[uneven turtle]

Not really, if u were to significantly buff the mobility on the type 71 to the point that it’s decent even without the mobility equipment, alongside the dpm as u suggested, you now have yet another hulldown monster with -9 gun depression and the capacity to auto pen anything without much of a drop in dpm

^in regard to type 71 struggling against the meta if u buffed it

[rocky sentinel]

You get a E6, congratulations.

[shy nymph]

And what do you currently suggest for the Type?

I wanted a type that would have at least a chance against meta tanks

[uneven turtle]

If you’d been reading what I’ve said, leave type as is, and do something about the actual problem that is things like the kran and such

[shy nymph]

But I'm talking exclusively about the Type 71

[rocky sentinel]

Are you the person at WG who said “The concept 1b should have a double shot autoloader?”

[shy nymph]

I hated what they did with 1b

[uneven turtle]

You’re talking about the type 71 being weak, Im telling you why it seems weak, and Im proposing an alternative to make it more usable, are you unable to grasp what Im trying to say or something

[terse cairn]

Type 71 has got decent strengths. The problem is that the other tanks have just too much else going for them

[uneven turtle]

I’ve been reiterating this point again and again

[hushed token]

Simple solution : Nerf the heck out of Cringe Tanks like Kravagn , nerf calibrated shell and boom , Type 71 become strong again

[uneven turtle]

Thats as watered down as you can get about what I’ve been trying to say @shy nymph

[shy nymph]

I think it's unlikely they'll do that

that would be a good decision

[uneven turtle]

Either you nerf the strong tanks, so that everything else can keep up to the pace, or you buff the decent tanks, and as a result, the tier below suffers and as a result, you have to buff everything in said tier so that the grind isn’t abysmal, and as a result, the tier below suffers and you get a vicious cycle

[hushed token]

^Power creeping moment

[shy nymph]

True, it's funny how Wargame manages to complicate the game so much

[uneven turtle]

Experience gained from a certain p2w robot game

[uneven turtle]

You say true, but just a moment ago you were literally walking down the path of power creep

[shy nymph]

Yes, it will be more difficult for them to do all that you said

[uneven turtle]

All that I said involves nerfing a considerable number of tanks rather than buffing up entire tech trees

[shy nymph]

Well, let's see what they're going to do

[rocky sentinel]

They will buff the BZT 70 giving it better side armor and turret armor. Then they will buff its reverse to 17.

[cinder shard]

[grave vault]

If we can buff the 183's alpha's to 1050/1750/1750 you got a deal.

[rocky sentinel]

Maybe they will who knows?

[terse cairn]

That's basically how it was when it went for testing for the first time. I remember it had pretty strong sides

[uneven turtle]

Pretty viable front turret armour as well

[terse cairn]

Yea. It was over 380mm thick when using gun depression. Also the mid plate was strong too at 300mm at base

[crude badger]

hope this happens

[rocky sentinel]

I just hope that one day the people who spend money on this game will finally learn spending over 100 dollars on a digital tank is a terrible investment.

[hasty sluice]

We need more legendary camos in the game.

[inner sparrow]

naah bro, this tank is already OP

[vague fiber]

its not OP idk what ur smoking

[inner sparrow]

just make the dipersion of 183 and 15 km of reverse

[vague fiber]

No

[inner sparrow]

yes and buff turret armor

[vague fiber]

Be sober

[inner sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/skull-bro-gif-5516937335080935996

[vapid horizon]

E-75ts deserves buffs, its way too weak. I personally think it has alot of potential to be a very interesting, very unique tank.

I think it would be very interesting if instead of buffing the armour, the gun handling, acceleration/traverse, and hp were buffed.

My suggestion:
Dispersion
.336 -> .316
Gun handling
.18/.18/.12 -> .16/.16/.08
Engine power
850hp -> 1200hp
Hitpoints
2300 -> 2450

[rocky sentinel]

Yes but it also needs about 300 MM of turret armor

[slate talon]

E75 is arguably one of the best tier 9 heavies and it is better than the E100 tier by tier. The armor is amazing, it is good just as it is. The buffs you listed would 100% make this tank imbalanced

[tropic fable]

Did they nerf the grille lines aiming time.

[terse beacon]

They're talking about e75ts not e75 and regardless e75 is nothing crazy nowadays. It's still very good but there are stronger t9s around

[vapid horizon]

E-75ts, not the E-75

[uneven turtle]

Giving it the same hp as a regular t10 ht👀

Mind you vk 90 has 2450 as well

[vapid horizon]

It has 340 alpha with 240mm of pen and 2600 dpm. It could have 2600 hp alone and still be bad in its current state.

[uneven turtle]

Then touch up on that instead of hp

[vapid horizon]

I did, but extra hp + the other stuff would make it decent.

[uneven turtle]

You in fact, have not suggested any changes for the alpha nor the pen values

[vapid horizon]

Because just changing that would not make it unique.

[uneven turtle]

I mean, it has 2.6k dpm, that’s unique for heavies it’s tier, I’d just consider it a down tiered e100 since it’s pretty tanky and has got above average dpm

Oop sorry that was with rammer, without rammer it stands at 2.5k

Honestly you can’t even call its gun statistics bad, maybe it could get a small pen buff on its prammo but other than that, 259 standard with cali is more than enough to cope with most t10 tanks frontally

[vapid horizon]

2.6k dpm isnt even remotely unique, considering plenty of tanks have roughly the same dpm and far more alpha.

Overall the gun is pretty accurate, but its alpha/dpm arent good. Which would be fine if the rest of the tank wasnt bad.

[uneven turtle]

I beg to differ

Top 5 of the heavies in t9 so

[vapid horizon]

all of the heavies with more dpm have higher alpha 🤣

It has about 100-150 more dpm than the average 120mm heavy at tier 9

But thats irrelevant to my initial suggestion

[uneven turtle]

I mean at the end of the day it’s just competing with menaces like the conq and is8

Those tanks are in their own league entirely

[vapid horizon]

Even like lorraine 50t has roughly the same dpm but more alpha

[scarlet yarrow]

REMOVE BASE CAP FROM ENCOUNTER, ITS SO DUMB

capping the base instead of actually playing the game is for cowards

[uneven turtle]

[remote pawn]

[marble willow]

[terse cairn]

[hushed token]

🤔

[wary saddle]

Electrofly on his way to log into discord and spout absolute nonsense

[nimble zodiac]

Me when I strategically force enemies to forego their advantageous positions in order to provide good targets for me and my teammates.

[ebon briar]

😁

[ivory linden]

Its for z memes 🙂

[scenic hazel]

wg should give 140 adaptive and call it a day

[muted rampart]

140 is basically leo 1 from temu

[terse cairn]

Yes this is really about tank balance

[muted rampart]

#clan-search

[fossil marten]

Am I allowed to post pics from a battle that show a tank in testing? I am not a tester. Just a grunt player.

[upper knot]

If you see a tank being tested in one of your battles you can post a pic. "what is this tank" pics show up here on a regular basis.

[fossil marten]

Ok thanks. Just encountered this tank. Hatch is enormous and an easy pen, armour non-existent, it’s French so par for the course, but that hatch 🫣

[scarlet yarrow]

huh, cant wait to fight it in my Keiler

[fossil marten]

You could be on the next map and still hit that hatch!

[grave vault]

It looks like they put a whole skyscraper on that turret.

[fallen mist]

I think that might be the Brennos, the new French heavy

[fossil marten]

Yes, that’s what it was called.

[terse cairn]

French pike nose heavy

[upper knot]

@main lintel That's not about tank balance. If you have a question post it in one channel (that fits). Please don't spam them in multiple channels.

[languid lagoon]

devs can yall listen to people nobody wants reforged

[vague fiber]

generak banana finally says something that makes sense

[fallen mist]

The DAVA engine can only go so far, and besides, it's not like the gameplay is gonna change

[vague fiber]

It is

[wicked quest]

They want to remove provisions dawg

[fallen mist]

Tbf, Provisions do end up taking a good chunk of credits after battles, something most players end up getting short on even on good games.

But even then, they put most of the provision buffs on different equipment, and you still get provisions on the 3rd equipment slot, so they're not entirely gone.

So am I upset over provisions? A little, but even I'm willing to accept the changes. Just because there are changes to a game doesn't mean that all changes are bad.

Y'all need to look at the good things coming with Reforged beside the bad.

You can give criticism and feedback over it, but complaining non-stop isn't going to do anything.

[heady iris]

hopefully they buff rhm and bc 25 t pen . like 236 and 238 at tier 10 ????

[wicked quest]

They spent years reworking and wrecking the economy to cater to garbage players,
There’s no more repair costs
Standard ammo costs nothing
Camo aswell

[fallen mist]

Not everyone cares about win rate or stats, they're just numbers in the end. There's such a thing as playing the game just to have fun.

Hell, I'm mostly a casual player myself. I only use win rate as a personal challenge to get better at playing particular vehicles.

[vague fiber]

Who are you talking to…?

[fallen mist]

DogofWisdom

[marble willow]

im going to start a reroll after reading that

[remote pawn]

🕊️

[hasty sluice]

This camouflage should be the standard for legendary camouflages.

And this:

The futuristic fantasy ones ruin immersion…

Why would anybody consider this to be better, or fitting into the game…I don’t think anybody wants neon lights, bright colors, It doesn’t correlate to tanks at all!

[uneven turtle]

Realism in an arcade 3rd person shooter with hp mechanics😌

I mean I generally like realistic war camos more but I can cut some slack if the non realistic ones still look cool

[hollow wind]

^

[vapid horizon]

The less opportunities for players to intentionally underequip their tank, the better. It is unfortunate how many players simply do not use provisions and consumables.

[hasty sluice]

If you look at what the game was 10 years ago, it had a certain level of fiction, but that was still alright. The issue is that it has escalated since the battle pass became a thing. The battle pass tanks—usually fictional—are often straight-up better replacements for the originals, which is a problem. But more than that, the game no longer feels authentic like it did in its prime. That’s my real problem with it. It used to be an authentic WWII tank game, but it shifted toward fiction, conceptual tanks that never left paper blueprints, and monstrosities like the Annihilator. Another issue is that the original tanks with the most historical significance and value are often overlooked or replaced by these things. At this point, you feel like you might as well be playing Tanki Online instead of an authentic tank game.

[uneven turtle]

Buddy

Go play war thunder mobile or pc war thunder if you’re looking for realism

[hasty sluice]

Im not looking for realism, you cannot sell someone a promise and then change core theme later. Many players had spent a LOT of money on the game. That means It should have stability. Thats expected.

It's about brand—its visual language and the uniformity of a product. World of Tanks is about tanks, not sci-fi crap. If they add that stuff, fine, it pleases some people. But replacing the role of the OG tanks with these fictional ones is wrong. Shifting the game's theme back toward a more authentic style is a good move.

These things have correlation you know…

[uneven turtle]

these “sci fi” crap are generally more prevalent in lower tiers, so just play the higher tiers more if you don’t like it?

There’s ways around it

[hasty sluice]

It doesn’t fix the problem… Its only a matter of time, It actually already happened. Smasher at tier X. There is a reason the BZT 70 is a cold war era tank in console Wot

The tank is not fictional but we are getting to a whole different issue here. Tank tier placement

[uneven turtle]

Well with the coming of reforged, you should also update your views towards wotb

Also if we’re to stick to tanks that made it out of their blueprint, we’d have a lot less tanks to play with

[hasty sluice]

Yes, I only meant that these tanks should be placed accordingly to their potential. Perfect example the initial deployment of Obj252U in Wot pc. The tank that ruined the game for many people. It could have been avoided if it was placed in tier IX or X

In Wot blitz we have the Medjay, Its the most broken tier V. The original variant of the tank is insignificant in the meta… So why didn’t they just release the Medjay at tier VI ? or VII?

if they wanted a better variant?

[uneven turtle]

Maybe because wargaming doesn’t expect players to spend their wotb career in tier 5s

I’d understand to an extent people stopping at t8, but anything lower is just odd

[hasty sluice]

A career? What is this a job? Its a game, players play it to have fun. Each tank has a personality… Like its uniqueness

[uneven turtle]

The prevalence of scifi tanks in anything higher than t7 drops significantly