tank-balance-discussion

[real oasis]

113 lost its Golden DPM they must bring it back at least

[stone drum]

I hope they would work on adding another French line tbh.

I would love to see something like an AMX Auf 1 based line kinda similar to the super hellcat.

That's part of the gun though?

[stuck acorn]

And? That's how Maus works. It is already very strong with all the buffs it had.

It won't get killed by a 1 single tank countering it

@stone drum It would be nice, but it won't happen. WG won't add another grille, because they finally realized what it leads to

[haughty blade]

@stuck acorn The main problem with the line is it has nothing that makes it unique enough to grind. They are all good tanks, but so are plenty of other lines.

[remote sluice]

m4 54 should have been a tech tree tank tbh. them putting it in as a collector means there’s very little chance any single shot french heavy tech tree will make it into the game, unless they still remember the Lorraine 50T. give them the 130mm guns with 480 alpha with tungsten, but give them a bit less armor than the m4 54 so the m4 54 wont be irrelevant. top speed will be at around 50km/h. the line could be a bit like this

t7: amx m4 45
t8: amx 65t (pls dont make it bad wg)
t9: amx m4 51
t10: lorraine 50t

[ebon lynx]

Lorrie 50t doesn't fit very will with the M4 51.
Unless you move the latter to the t10 spot and make a completely new t9

[stuck acorn]

Idk which one you mean, if VZ then yes, every tank besides T8 is good, but not unique enough

And if you mean CS, then well, it was obvious from the start. This tank aims for playstyle already occupied by tons of different vehicles. There is no way you can make such a line work without something exclusively unique for the line. And no speed boost cannot be such a thing.

A sheer fact that many players were more interested in T6 than in T10 in this line (at least before players realized T6 was also ruined) should tell enough about it.

[stone drum]

Unlike grille it would not be accurate. It would be more like superhellcat.

It would still be a rather average 155mm gun, but with an additional focus on mobility.

[haughty blade]

@stuck acorn yes the VZ line I was talking about. I like tier 10 gun but it’s as generic as can be to drive.

CS line? The new Polish mediums? Yeah they are a huge disappointment. Terrible DPM, no armor and sluggish movement makes them terrible.

[shrewd crag]

CS 63 is meh
Same dpm as E50M and armor like a amx 30b
Also bad prammo

[stone drum]

Why go with such a fake line when I can whip up a much more real line.

The line would begin with the AMX m4 mle. 48 and would terminate with the AMX-50 TCB.

[stuck acorn]

yeah new polish meds, they are absolute trash

[remote sluice]

any new tech tree is a good addition, fake or real. if they’re good ill grind them

[stable gulch]

Nope sorry, 65t has to be bad. There is no other option

[remote sluice]

“since the 65t’s gun is doing too much damage, we will lower the damage per shot to 350 while keeping the reload of 15s the same. u can still do 400 damage so be quiet now my little children”

“also, we forgot to give it 40mm of frontal armor and turret armor, so here ya go”

[haughty blade]

@stuck acorn I agree. I’m only playing them because I have all the other tech tree tanks and I like to punch myself in the face.

They are more disappointing than the Chinese lite line. No reason for any normal person to ever try to grind the line.

[past vale]

Tbf not every line has to be oonga boonga easy to play or broken. The Chinese lights are fun lights if you know what you are doing but I agree that even somebody with 2 neurons can play the T-49 line. The CS-63 looks like a 140/Leopard line.

[stable gulch]

More like "since 65t exists, we are gonna make it suffer just for existing"

[stuck acorn]

CS is Leo/140 but just worse

[haughty blade]

@past vale Yes the Chinese lights are fun but mostly for the challenge of playing them. The spotting mechanic is nice though.

I agree not every line has to be “the must get line”. I’m just not seeing what an average player would want with the CS line.

I’m playing it to challenge myself and because it’s new. They need a little bit of a re-balance.

[remote sluice]

CS-63 line should get Super Speed Boost instead of RetiCal tbh

[shrewd crag]

Or make a new speed cosumable that repicates turbo mechanic from wot pc

[mighty bear]

Out of curiousity, I thought WG was going to post a final list of all tank re-balances with the final release of 10.3?

[solid sequoia]

They posted it on their website

[past vale]

If you get what advantage the consumables and provisions provide you then you can understand what it can do better than the Leo/140, gear oil increases your reverse speed, it already reverses at 23......

Tungsten will guarantee DPM battles against low alpha meds, keep in mind this update many meds lost Alpha.

Overall it is like another Leopard 1, a tank that new players shouldn't touch and that you drive for the challenge of getting its potential, we don't need more E50-Ms and TVPs lmao.

[haughty blade]

I still don’t understand what WG was thinking with the STB-1. It was already a really good tank now it’s just insane.

[slender latch]

Tbh if wg wanted, they could just release a line occasionally if they want to not because they are obligated to add new content. So they would just change the meta by "rebalancing" heck even maps could just rotate each update to change some parts of it to be fresh.

[fickle tinsel]

I'm loving the new "buffed" is-4. I snapshot its cupola across the map on the move in a batchat

[stuck acorn]

except it's still worse than leo, STB, 140 or whatever.

I know it's not a tank for bad players, it's not hars to guess, but it's still not something i would go for, because there are better tanks sharing very similar playstyle

[haughty blade]

@fickle tinsel I don’t know why they even touched the IS-4. There was absolutely no reason for it.

[full token]

everything was getting touched for the sake of touching them

[mighty bear]

Thanks ... found it here: https://na.wotblitz.com/en/news/updates/vehicle-changes-season-2/

[shrewd crane]

what changes does 260 have ?

[small crane]

Its funny when they says "check out the change in game's portal" but no link to the game forum in video description

[fickle tinsel]

well @solid sequoia thinks it's better

[lone sandal]

it's not better, it's not ruined, it's just a fun tank to use and play against, that's good enough of a justification for the changes

[fickle tinsel]

No no according to @solid sequoia it's better. He's going to flex his post update is-4 stats on me to prove his point

[solid sequoia]

Cope.

[unique scaffold]

Yesterday was a heavy day for complain dang I actually like the balance changes.

[thorny timber]

Wg did a good job on some tanks,and the complete opposite on some others

[exotic girder]

IS-8 with tungsten/adrenaline is nuts you get 3675 dpm melts tanks

[grim crescent]

i have no idea where to put this question but here it goes. Could you change the american voices to the current ones in the WoT? Blitz's voice actor sounds cringe

[fickle tinsel]

@solid sequoia hm you sound salty. Let me guess, your user is hat_trick_ and i can see why LOL

[stone drum]

Jagdtiger:

DOOM music kicks on

[solid sequoia]

Omg, you found my ign, I’m doomed! Keep coping lmao

[fickle tinsel]

how very surprising that despite claiming the is4 will be better post update, even more funny saying that the armor was a "skill crutch" you performed significantly worse in the is4 post update as compared to before

[solid sequoia]

Very surprising that I’m playing on mobile now after playing on PC for years because I currently can’t access my Pc.

@unique scaffold imo there’s advantages to both, I’m mainly a PC player so getting used to mobile controls has been a bit of a learning curve that I’m still in the middle of

[pure hornet]

Ngl this update destroyed whole T10 battle it’s unplayable rn

[unique scaffold]

Are the controls better or worse on mobile

[exotic girder]

Its big slow and has bad armor, is-8 is mobile with a turret

[fickle tinsel]

better when you have an ipad and can abuse the superior autoaim. probably harder to get used to though

[solid sequoia]

^^^ mobile is better if you learn it properly, but for a player wanting to just play, PC aiming is easier in general

@exotic girder JagdTiger definitely doesn’t have bad armor. It also can kill Maus in 40 seconds, 20 if in platoon (with tungsten and adrenaline).

[stone drum]

True, 38kph Is so slow and that 270mm effective thickness on flat ground is so terrible.

Don't even get me started on the awful .308 dispersion, 460 alpha, or 4k dpm.

[unique scaffold]

Bruh a heavy tank with 38 kph.

Watch me get snipped cause I’m still at spawn when they’re at the base

[exotic girder]

I massive lower plate, constant engine damage and fires its not as enjoyable for me. Not saying its bad just not my play style. I prefer heaviums like the IS-8 or fast meds like the 30b

[latent ermine]

kran sounds balanced this update, LOL

[winter dagger]

Double 4005 clears maus in under ten seconds lmaoo

[solid sequoia]

Then you’re on cooldown, JagdTiger still has 4K dpm afterwards

[void siren]

Mad games in regular

[unique scaffold]

@fading crescent Language

[fading crescent]

sorry about that

[exotic girder]

T-34-2 got tungsten did the T-34-3 as well or no?

[ebon lynx]

No.

[drowsy plaza]

It’s a learning curve simply due to the different tank characteristics, but it’s not unplayable at all.

[mental haven]

true

[dense fox]

Hey, if you don't make the balance normal, I'll raise a riot in social networks against wargaming.

[nimble zodiac]

Bro's literally using threats in the wrong channel to address an issue that is of skill, not of a system.

[round sand]

Tbh it's just skill issue and maybe can indulge in a small amount of copium. Only the best players can make most of the games work in their favour

[dense fox]

Dude, -_- We always lose 1-7 and that 1 kill is me

[ancient rampart]

[subtle timber]

did the buff the bat chat?

[solid sequoia]

Yes

[queen geyser]

yep

[fathom glacier]

Is this tank really broken?

[scenic olive]

These update teams are insane

[humble depot]

Only the tech tree tanks got it.

[twin egret]

on paper yes, but the tank suffers from the gun depression and low hp

[past vale]

If you are not good at the game you shouldn't go for the Leo 1 or 140 either. The STB-1 is easy but the grind there is not, also wouldn't recommend as your first medium.

[forest ridge]

go make a new account and start playing, surely ull start sucking on wg on how good and easy the game is

[unique scaffold]

Again skill issue

[valid mist]

Any ideas on the changes they made to e4

[fickle tinsel]

nobody cares least of all wargaming

[mellow arch]

how did the 50b get nerfed in this upd?

[ebon lynx]

Essentially, they nerfed the pen again (by changing ammo type from AP/APCR to APCR/HEAT = less normalization), the alpha by 10 points and I don't remember the rest.

In my opinion, they killed what the E4 essentially was.
From a TD with great pen and good accuracy post 9.2 to a more generic pseudoheavy that lost its main feats, that's what I think.

[valid mist]

Ik what they did I’m asking in what are your thoughts on what happened. They added more speed changed shell type and made copolla like 2x smaller also less dmg but same pen

[stone drum]

Nothing he said was incorrect

[valid mist]

They didn’t change the pen

[stone drum]

That's what giving it apcr does, it lowers the ability of the tank to penetrate angled armour.

@valid mist heat doesn't ignore angled armour, it just gets no normalization

[valid mist]

It also has heat which makes it ignore most angled armour and pen anyway. Got spaced or heat screen ok I have apcr I don’t care what I have to shoot u with im penning u😂😂😂 Also it ignores most angled armour because it has no ability to bounce. It might not pen but at least it won’t ricochet. Now if I get some weird tank with angled armour and spaced armour like a Sheridan missle then I’m screwed

[opal laurel]

I feel like the IS-4 tank is not very strong anymore, or at all, honestly.

[lone sandal]

you'd be right and that's actually okay because surprise surprise not everything has to be as strong as an stb

[wispy leaf]

e4 has smaller capoula now , u forgot to mention that, its also slightly more armored tahn the previous , either being bad at shooting or just not enough pen that machine gun mantlet

[twilit crystal]

No the new e4 cupola is way thinner

[lone sandal]

it's crazy how they managed to make the e4 cupola even more obnoxious

[lethal fox]

I know that's why I added the troll, it's not meant to be taken seriously. I know it's dumb to add a gun of that power to a well rounded superheavy.

[junior forge]

vickers sucks now

[granite pebble]

Correct

[nimble zodiac]

That's not really how HEAT is, but you're right to some degree (heh, literally).
HEAT does not ricochet at 70° like AP and APCR, though with 3CRB, AP and APCR often cheat their way into penetrating >70° plates that they shouldn't be anyways.
HEAT shouldn't have a big problem with Sheridan, though it is less effective than AP or APCR
According to wotinspector, HEAT does ricochet >85°, though. It's interesting because it still can penetrate plates >85°, so I'll have to find out what really makes it happen (it's probably just effective armor)

I just opened a new can of worms. HEAT can ricochet in some uncanny situations. I need to run tests. Finally, something newer than 3CRB to discover >:)

[slender latch]

Did jagdtiger really need a tungsten shell? Lol

[queen geyser]

Nope but wg probably though its funny

[valid mist]

Yw ig😅😅

[nimble zodiac]

Thanks, HEAT experiences 3CR the same as AP and APCR
It has an auto-ricochet angle of 85°, but will still not ricochet if 3CR is passed

Practically pointless so that's why WG didn't bother to change it

[distant hull]

Reduce the VK 45's frontal armour

[ancient rampart]

No it's frontal armor isn't even that amazing

[fallen crow]

Всем привет я люблю мужчин

[sharp forge]

Lol at the same tier 7 battle its only strength is fast reload , front armor is just accessories, unless you know how to angle and try to make enemy hit your track

I believe you using T6 LT/MT when facing VK face to face

[distant hull]

No I am using Su-152

[sharp forge]

Then you must be using AP

[granite pebble]

Well considering how insanely mobile it already was before the update, the fact that it has such usable armor on top of its gun and mobility... it's almost on the same level as the 53tp, the issue however is it's limited top speed

[ancient rampart]

Tiger I is still better imo

[quartz snow]

Miles better. In Tiger I you can poke corners, hulldown, and sidescrape while VK 45.03 cant do anyhing without worrying about being shot on the turret cheeks. And both have the same gun and virtually the same dpm and accuracy

[ancient rampart]

Better armor profile too imo
I rather have smaller frontal armor plates than one giant one

[granite pebble]

Wait, I thought we were talking about the tier 8 VK45

The hell, why would anyone think the Tier 7 one needs to be nerfed, it's literally just a premium tiger 1 that's also... worse

[azure marten]

Spaced armour 🤷‍♀️

[crimson dagger]

PBR E4 is ugly exactly like the PBR M48. Because instead of just updating the graphics to PBR which is really not an improvement graphically but thats another story, they think they need to change good looking tank models from a time where wg had half decent tank designs going into the game. But nooo, lets make them look worse and change the armour profile, just for a graphics "update" seriously lol.

[lone sandal]

honestly true, not only is the e4 more obnoxious to play against now, it's also more obnoxious to look at, like idk why but it just looks a little off

[ancient rampart]

How is the E4 more obnoxious to play against
It's straight up worse than it was pre 10.3
You can actually pen the cupola now

[rocky spire]

ye, but cupola is less big now

[ancient rampart]

At least you can actually pen it this time

[lone sandal]

? smaller cupola, and the cupola is spaced now, pre 10.3 cupola was jus heat spam

[ancient rampart]

it has less armor despite being spaced
So you can actually pen it with AP and APCR now

[wicked quest]

I mean the E4s PBR change is kinda in its favor the turret got adjusted along with the hatch , it also needed the model it was still using the ancient one from early 2010s

[lone sandal]

having to aim at a kran hatch size weakspot is more obnoxious than loading gold at a massive hatch

[wicked quest]

Also wym more obnoxious? It got its damage and pen reduced and got some stats tweaked along with worse ammo lol

[violet island]

how often do you guys notice the normalisation difference that AP to APCR does a meaningful difference
KPZ 70 is just a tank to hate yourself with though

[ancient rampart]

Fairly often considering the KPZ 70 is my main tank

[wicked quest]

E4 used to butter with 300+ standard AP it’s pretty noticeable when you have to switch to HEAT it also doesn’t function well when the APCR round has 810 M/S meaning it actually does suffer penetration fall off along with having a bad round at range now

[stuck acorn]

? Why would you try to reccommend me something? I have every single tank in the game anyway and i'm not a bad player. Although my wn8 fell below 3k after i stopped playing competitively and in fact stopped playing nearly at all i still wouldn't think of myself as bad enough for some random discord user to explain to me how a certain tank works.

I just made a point that there is absolutely 0 reason to grind CS, because it's weaknesess greatly overcome it's strenghts when compared to any other medium sharing similar playstyle. It has 1 or 2 unique things like reverse speed, but they can't compensate for it having the worst T10 penetration besides T-100 LT (290 APCR is much worse than 290 HEAT), one of the lower DPMs among T10 meds, absolutely garbage armor profile and not impressive top speed for very little armor it has.

[crimson dagger]

Just because a model is old doesn't mean it wasn't good.

[remote sluice]

funny how the CS-63 is literally a watered down version of many other meds

• slower than Leopard 1 yet doesnt have much more effective armor than it
• as fast as the E 50M but doesnt have the armor
• 340 alpha + tungsten cannot compete with WZ-121’s 420 alpha + tungsten
• very bad pen compared to all other mediums
• does not have enough turret armor nor dpm to compete against STB-1, Patton and T-62A.
• has low dpm but has almost no other redeeming factor, FV4202 has low dpm but has hesh to redeem itself.
• slower, has significantly less dpm and less speed compared to Obj 140. the only thing it has over Obj 140 is gun depression and armor, but the latter is not even that effective.
• no autoloader so it cant compete w the TVP T 50/51 (i added this just to slander that tank even more lol)

it’s pointless tbh

[lethal fox]

2nd most played tier 9 HT of mine behind the E75...

It's so unique TBH even if it ain't top tier it's enjoyable to play.

[past vale]

Take a chill pill buddy, this is friendly banter, not your cod 360 lobby lmao

[primal basin]

Why can they give the cs the same ability it gets in pc?

That way it would be useful for at least fast capping

[remote sluice]

im not sure, i mean there are ways to balance that mechanic out, like give it 65km/h top speed while in boost mode and 50km/h outside of it and it’s balanced and fun to play. like wg, adding 1 more button for switching mode is fine.

also, the Foch 155 is actually rlly good now. i still dislike this new version of the Foch autoloader, but with a more consistent gun, it’s a strong tank again. love to see that

[unique scaffold]

Guys pls tell me where is buffs and nerfs for tanks page

[stone drum]

Slightly better accuracy & shell velocity didn't suddenly make it a strong tank. You just facing update teams that have zero clue how to deal with you.

[remote sluice]

and thats ur opinion, i cant change that. however, ive played no less than 30 games in it since the update dropped, faced good and bad enemies altogether, and i can definitely tell u that the accuracy buff and the shell speed buff rlly made the tank much more consistent at mid range where i usually play my foch at cus of the lack of armor it has. the tank has been hitting its shots much more consistently, although the pen is a bit worse cus of apcr, but overall im feeling the tank much more and i can def say it’s noticeably better than pre-10.3, tho never as good as old foch

[stone drum]

Ah I understand what your saying, I also noticed improvement, but I am much more critical in my evaluation.

However in my eyes if they had maybe dropped a second of the clip reload & added some gun arc & depression the tank would be only a few steps to perfection.

[remote sluice]

i agree, if wg give it like 7 degrees of gun depression and a bit more gun arc im gonna be very happy. interclip reload buff is nice too, but i can live without that

[pseudo ivy]

I used to think this update will make 140 trash but dude...
Im wrong...

[shy wren]

140 is nutty with the mobility and DPM buffs.

[topaz geyser]

One of the best patch of this game 👍

[vestal basalt]

Soviet Leopard without Gun dep

[indigo adder]

Comrades, the Minotaur needs an urgent buff, its armor has many holes, its speed and rotation are very low, among other problems.
And I ask you to change or remove the projectile reservoir, it doesn't work with the Minotaur.
Just wanted to say that, thanks for listening!

[ancient rampart]

Negative

[remote sluice]

i actually like how the cs-63, though being painfully mid, has two different builds for 2 playstyles, one being a sniper medium and the other being a fast medium. which is very very cool, and i do want to see more tier 10s have two different playstyles to diversify things. some examples being:

• e100 could have its 12.8cm gun buffed to have around 2.8k dpm fully equipped so players will have two choices: alpha damage or dpm
• batchat’s 100mm stock gun should be the exact same as the old batchat gun w 3 shells and 310 alpha, while the top gun can remain as it is, so players can again choose either alpha or dpm
• foch 155 should get 640 alpha on the single shot w it’s reload slightly nerfed so it has 3k dpm, and the autoloader should get 580 alpha w 5s intraclip w less dpm, so players can choose either dpm or autoloader
• grille should get two guns as well, one being the current 580 alpha gun with worse dispersion, say 0.3 or smth, for frontlining, while the second being the old 640 alpha grille gun w around 2.7k dpm and better accuracy, so players can choose between sniping and frontlining
• yoh has two guns and two playstyles: the tryhard 3 shot and the scary 2 shot
• is-4 could have an alternative gun w very high dpm and good gun handling but below avg pen. kinda like the is-6.
• minotauro can have a gun like on pc, but it’ll do 460 damage instead of 490 and has 260mm of standard pen instead of 275mm like the current gun. it will have 4 shells, 8s intraclip and 18s interclip. this will give it a dpm of 2.6k. while the current gun could use some reload buffs so firing the 2nd and 3rd shell will give u an effective dpm of 2.3k instead of 2.2k like the current mino

[twilit crystal]

Matters a lot on steep drive wheel shots

[fickle tinsel]

cs63 is pointless unless they buff it in some other way

[clear shuttle]

give the is-4 back the D-25T

[midnight linden]

I’d love to torture myself with only 175 mm of penetration at t10!

[indigo adder]

No, Minotauro needs buff

[queen geyser]

There is actually lot of lower tier tanks where I would also love to see it, ideas here mainly from WoT PC
T49 with me small gun for DPM
E50 with the 8.8 for crazy dpm
(these guns alr exist in WoTB they just suck beyond ass)
I can also fully angree on your E100 statement, they should buff the small gun and make it a dpm maschine

[remote sluice]

yes but buff the pen up to around say 240mm or smth and give it 3k dpm fully equipped, then we will have a fun alt gun for is-4

[ancient rampart]

It has some of the best armor in the game basically requiring 99% of the tanks in the game to load premium to pen it
I think it's fine I don't want another annoying TD like the Badger

[clear shuttle]

no leave the pen as 175mm but give it 4k dpm

[remote sluice]

hell yea all those heavy tanks will be blushing when u rizz them w ur awesome pen

[indigo adder]

Good points friend, especially regarding the E100 and Minotauro

[remote sluice]

forgot to mention, Sheridan should get a 105mm gun w 310 alpha and high dpm alongside the current 152mm gun it has

[indigo adder]

So in this case, reduce the projectile reload time or remove the projectile reservoir.
I believe this is the best thing for the improvement of the Minotaur.

[fair pebble]

This right here might save World of Tanks

[fickle tinsel]

Man who said the type 71 was a substitute for old is4. Not at all not even close. The armor profile is awful LOL

[fringe quest]

What the is4 armor or type’s

[remote sluice]

to add in, there are certain ways to diversify a tank’s playstyle too, with the super consumables.

• cs-63 can either become a sniper medium or a fast medium depending on which consumable/ provision u bring
• fv215b can either be a brawler w reactive armor, or a speedy heavium w super speed boost

this can be applied to some tanks only though, so the best way to diversify a tank’s gameplay is to give it two alternative guns that are both good enuf to be competitive. i mean, who wouldnt love a game where u can have more of a choice? would u rather be forced to play the derp e100, or would u rather be able to choose between derp e100 and dpm e100?

[stone drum]

Batchat alt gun is already good and Grille doesn't need another gun tbh

[fickle tinsel]

Tanks really shouldn't have too many gun options IMO because it makes things too unpredictable. The game becomes less fun if you are unable to draw upon information and strategize

[dire pagoda]

is4 had armor now he dont

[queen geyser]

u can literally see the guns because they look diffrent

It literally makes tanks more interesting and fun, its also a skill to be able to see what gun the enemy uses and to adapt to it,

Atm only real tank where that matters is tier 8 smv

[stone drum]

There are other options that should be available imo.

[fickle shoal]

Best buff it could receive is the reserve shell just be changed to be an autoreloader like the progetto 65, as reserve shell is just plain useless, basically just a 2 shot, and only a single shot for maximum DPM iirc

[indigo adder]

That would be perfect, that's the problem I wanted to talk about, you can't use the 3rd project to avoid being inactive at the start, change its loading to something like the TVP T 50/51 or the same as the PROGETTO 65

[subtle timber]

why the hell did they nerf the is4 into the ground

[cunning socket]

Cuz Balance

[subtle mica]

Tanks relying on provisions/ Consumables to be good is not a good tank

[nimble zodiac]

Tanks relying on having good stats like armor, firepower, and mobility to be good are not good tanks

[valid charm]

Same question about Vickers CR. Was that nerf -> kill really necessary?

[cunning socket]

2k dpm☠️

[subtle timber]

it was already balanced lol

[stone drum]

Lol

[cunning socket]

I used the big B in Balance, well it was sarcasm

[fickle shoal]

Am I drunk or are tanks meant to rely on those three to be good, no good tank didn't rely on them

[solid sequoia]

It really wasn’t balanced lmao

[nimble zodiac]

Don't worry, I was joking. The reliance on provisions and consumables is somewhat silly to me. Let's say a TVP had a longer intraclip, like two seconds, and then had the shell reload boost consumable that brought its reload down to 1.4s. That consumable would be its reliance on putting out damage quickly and safely, but the tank is good because of it.

[pseudo ivy]

True
U can even make it a 4 second reload medium tank lolol

[fickle tinsel]

the badger nerf hit way harder than i expected. miss multiple shots every game. really easy shots too. hoenstly dropped my average damage by at least 800 just because fully aimed shots will go into the ground or sm

[queen geyser]

oh no! anyway

[frank bone]

Fr fr

[dense prairie]

😱

[slender latch]

I don't think 2 gun options is necessarily bad as long as both are balanced and unique. It give players different playstyle that fit them, if wg wants to add some content into the game without releasing new tanks.

[fickle tinsel]

yeah i just think it'd be annoying because you then have to work around not knowing what to expect from their tank until you meet it

[haughty blade]

Is there a bug with the obj 140? I swear every single shot is exactly 300 damage.

[stone drum]

Doesn't matter, because WG has frequent balance changes, lol.

My knowledge from 12 years ago in WOT is basically worthless now due to constant change.

[solid sequoia]

Are you playing in realistic?

[fickle tinsel]

yeah defo a hurdle for new players when theres like 5 million premium tanks now

[haughty blade]

@solid sequoia 🤦‍♂️ yes.

[shadow kayak]

the 4202 didn’t need this rework tbh, can leave the bad free HE pen but reduce to 440 again. can also bring the reload back down to 6.9 on calibrated shells

[austere trout]

The nerfs and buffs on TDs were very poorly planned. Ho-Ri is worse than she was before the patch. Now he is easily flanked, can't shoot and escape quickly anymore and has even lost accuracy. DEVs chose to end a class that is already the least competitive.
They should be fired for the mistake they made in this patch.

[fickle shoal]

Is hori a she or a he

[solid sequoia]

113 gFT is by far one of the best tanks in game now, Jageroo got tungsten which makes its gun even more dangerous, Ho-Ri became a better frontline TD while barely sacrificing accuracy and mobility, E4 is still incredibly strong

[remote sluice]

e3 is still punchy and has great armor, foch 155 became better due to more consistency. the only thing that got nuked is the grille, and even that thing if played frontline is still decent

[shadow kayak]

i think tds are in a fine place, its the meds they kinda nailed. except for kpz 50t of course. some barely changed from the update (140 n what not) but the fact that the 4202, stb, and m48 got nerfs for no reason whatsoever. their playstyles will not change they are just worse at it now

[fickle tinsel]

the t10 hori is amazing

[shadow kayak]

man and they removed hesh from the super conq what the hell man?? whole point of british L1 gun is hesh and now its just gone

[stone drum]

It still has hesh

[shadow kayak]

one on left is sconq, one on right is fv215b. both run the 120mm L1A1

it used to have 110mm of HE pen. without cali.

[stone drum]

Putting lipstick on a pig doesn't suddenly not make it a pig.

L1 never had a regular he shell

[solid sequoia]

I’m sorry, STB and M48 nerfed? Did you even look at what changed?

[remote sluice]

i mean 85mm HE pen is still decent if u ask me, plus it cant have everything. if u want hesh and speed, u play the 215b, but if u want armor and ease of play, u play the sconq

[shadow kayak]

as i said, the their playstyles wont change they just are worse at what they do. yes more dpm but having to peak out more to get the shots out. making it worse at its typical sit hulldown and farm style of play

[solid sequoia]

Sitting hulldown with solid turrets and more dpm = worse farming? I really don’t see how you reach this conclusion lmao

[shadow kayak]

sitting exposed=more time to hit weak points.

[solid sequoia]

Just keep moving? It’s really not that hard, especially with the patton’s buffed turret

[thorn tartan]

they ruined my only t10 💀

[shadow kayak]

i can still butter that thing with ease wth

[solid sequoia]

With what? Heavy prammo?

[shadow kayak]

hitting the hatch is still easy as hell

[solid sequoia]

Neither hatch is very big on either tank, and when they’re moving it’s even harder. Both tanks are better than they were before, saying otherwise shows a clear lack of skill

[analog tide]

Fv 183 and jagpanzer just got a very good buff, fv 183 its more faster than before and jgpanzer just got tungsten shells

[balmy obsidian]

Yes, we know this, it's already been talked about
Cause the IS-8 got tungsten shells too

[lone sandal]

delirious stb mains

[fickle tinsel]

in what way was the stb nerfed??

[uneven turtle]

They probs complaining about alpha drop

[shadow kayak]

i own neither, that’s just my experience going against them. they are easier to kill than before

[solid sequoia]

Just because bad players can’t play it doesn’t mean the tank is bad

[fickle tinsel]

the stb objectively got a massive buff

[shadow kayak]

they balance around player statistics. do they not? hence my point

[solid sequoia]

Supposedly, though I’m currently having my doubts

[lone sandal]

stb is one of the best performing mediums so going by that logic they shouldn't have buffed it so much

[uneven turtle]

Player statistics = more noobs than pros

[fickle tinsel]

statistics bias towards certain characteristics because it's easier for noobs to take advantage of things like armor and alpha vs things like camo and mobility (tool to yolo into enemy spawn and die instantly)

[shadow kayak]

hence why i think this rework wasn’t done well

[lone sandal]

but it wasn't a rework it was a flat buff, an undeserved flat buff at that

[clear shuttle]

i love how they removed one of the weaknesses of the stb, which was its low dpm for a medium

[solid sequoia]

They also allowed it to more easily deal with hulldown opponents with 300mm AP prammo

[shadow kayak]

damn they have all the japanese tanks ap pramo or smth??

[twilit crystal]

i mean a lot of meds got dpm buffs, its still got pretty low dpm although its always running rammer and never needs cali, 3300 which it has on standard is pretty much worse than all single shot meds other than the cs 63, edit 4202 as well, the advantage comes from the solid turret, great gun depression, and the ability to keep that dpm while spamming gold

[clear shuttle]

true

[shadow kayak]

but why they bully my poor 4202 ;-;

[flat hornet]

Just want to say that i really appreciate the fact that the first batchat gun is now not just plain worse than the second one but rather a alternative of equal worth

[lone sandal]

they hate the 4202 for no reason

[fickle shoal]

It's lethal in a good players hands, in a bad ones... not so much

[forest ridge]

even bad ones it's deadly, to their own team

[quartz snow]

As if STBs arent lethal or annoying in their own way

[ember idol]

Having a 0.5s difference reload from the WZ-121 is just 💀 so you're more forced to use HESH to make up your damage

And using the pen gun feels worthless when they change the standard rounds to dart rounds

Not to mention they butchered the cheap HESH which was a massive help against western style tanks

[slender latch]

How is the hori in this update? Is it still decent enought to hull traverse when being circled of death?

[hollow acorn]

@smotrelaparuraz#0 Is it possible to add the chat box to the platoon waiting Queue? I ask because I find it hard to communicate with randoms when in platoon.

[unique scaffold]

Did you grille 15 got tunsketon

[thorny timber]

No,it was the jagd panzer e100.

[verbal igloo]

And the jagdtiger which makes it a fantastic tank with its dpm, accuracy,ptw,traverse spd, workable armor and good gun depression

[dense ember]

wg, please review the balance for vickers light

[haughty blade]

@dense ember The already did. Live with it man.

[dense ember]

no they didnt

[clear shuttle]

nah you should be way more worried about the vickers cr

[stone drum]

WG just hates hesh, they think hesh guns having slower reloads somehow makes sense...

or somehow Leopard 1 having more dpm on AP rounds than Fv4202 on hesh makes sense.

[ember idol]

Britain suffers

[thorny timber]

183 just out there vibing,still vibing with the highest hesh DMG possible

[valid charm]

Vickers light I can live with, it’s not that bad. Vickers CR, on the other hand, is now total crap.

[nimble zodiac]

It's probably because Leopard 1 lacks armor and FV4202 can bounce a few shots. WG might just treat this much more differently than they should

[subtle mica]

T110E4 and IS-4 changes are garbage

[stone drum]

Leopards vulnerability doesn't justify having more dpm on AP than fv4202 with hesh

[winter dagger]

They hate all Brit tanks for some reason (they listened to players on 215b changes but if they didn't...)

[twin egret]

The players would board the RNG Ship Wargaming and dump all the containers into the harbor yeah a lot of the Brit tanks got petty changes, the S. Conq got nothing notable, Chieftain essentially got a participation award that's a gold star taken into the form of reactive armour, Vickers went into bad, and FV4202 got slapped by the hand of "closing the skill gap with guns." The rest of the British tier 10 changes were deserved, besides for the badger, it was a dumb change it got that should've been more of a nerf

[umbral socket]

They hate the grille for no reason

[burnt venture]

Even then, the 215B changes were basically a nerf because all the fast heavy tanks around it got huge buffs. E5, 260, IS-7, E6, etc.

I would say even the IS-4 is just a better pick over 215B now that it's this sidescraping heavium, the gun buffs and DPM buffs across the board have basically made 215B less special but still just as difficult to play

Also I'm back from a 5D mute, time to speedrun the next mod action taken on me

[winter dagger]

i mean i love the 215b because of the difficulty, i believe it should be hard to play/weird to play, but not sht to play if you know what i mean. IS4 is basically better, but not fun because it doesn't have funny rear turret like 215b

[frigid zephyr]

at least 215b has like 170mm head pen

[scenic olive]

Idk why people saying is4 is a heavium, the gun still sucks on aim time and on movement and the speed is like 5% faster than is7😭(I compared in training room), plus the traverse speed is worse. It ain’t a heavium it’s just a bad heavy after the update.

[fickle tinsel]

you can't say that i had like 10 angry kids on me when i dared say the is4 is a worse tank post update

[nimble zodiac]

Me when I said AMX M4 mle. 54 wasn't really nerfed that badly, people are just mad they did it so they called it a massive nerf

@frigid zephyr It did, lol

[frigid zephyr]

i swear the AMX M4 mle. 54’s dpm got better after the update

[scenic olive]

Ik bruh, people just think more fun= better tank

[winter dagger]

Ignoring the armor, the hp Nerf outright makes it worse instantly

[fickle tinsel]

Yeah i didn't even mention the hp now that I think about it. Was too busy losing braincells to people like @unique scaffold claiming that armor is useless for any good player

[ancient rampart]

Why play the IS-4 when you can play the Obj 260

[winter dagger]

Same like saying DPM is useless if you can do more damage than them with a single shot

[burnt venture]

IS-4 is much more comfortable to play after the update. You can't just yolo in and tank like a superheavy but your gun and everything else feels much better, and the sidescraping ability hasn't been diminished by that much.

It's just that other tanks are getting bigger buffs

[stone drum]

124 vs 160mm is a pretty massive difference, not to forget the shoulders also got nerfed.

@nimble zodiac it was still nerfed decently hard, the Mobility & trading nerfs didn't help either. Then the shell type changes were just adding insult to injury & removing uniqueness.

[fickle tinsel]

sides got nerfed aswell and youre neglecting the hp nerf

[burnt venture]

I'm not neglecting anything lol. All I said is, IS-4's gun and mobility buffs made it more comfortable to play as a damage dealer that can situationally sidescrape, instead of a superheavy. Personally I find this IS-4 a lot more fitting to my playstyle.

Yeah ofc it got nerfed in other areas but that doesn't mean all of a sudden it's the worst tank in the world. I wouldn't even include it in the list of tanks that REALLY got ruined this update

[fickle tinsel]

i mean the question still remains why play it over alternatives like the 260 which will still perform better in every battle and are also more fun to play. my gripe is that it's not a "fun" tank to play still. It's still a boring tank. It's just now mediocre as well as boring

[winter dagger]

More comfortable until you suddenly get melted because you have no hp left

[burnt venture]

I mean if you guys hate it, whatever. It's more comfortable for me because I actually like my tanks to have some mobility and firepower. New IS-4 isn't the strongest but I mean there's tons of tanks just like that.

It traded meta status through the nerfs for quality of life buffs. I'm pretty ok with that cuz IS-4 has been like one of the more meta heavy tanks ever since it got that first buff.

It's definitely more fun to play than slow, superheavy IS-4, easier to deal damage in, and yeah it's a bit more squishy but you cannot expect them to just not nerf things while giving it more mobility and firepower

[stone drum]

It's totally fine to shift it out of the meta & nerf the frontal armour, but the sides honestly should have never been nerfed.

[winter dagger]

Is4 is just gonna join the grille in the never touching again category for me tbh

[fickle tinsel]

Yeah i mean personally i don't understand why anyone would play it when AP butters the front hull now. Might as well play the e5 which has better hull armor and equivalent turret armor with a better gun and better gun depression lol

[twin egret]

on movement accuracy moment

[winter dagger]

Ah yes funi

[twin egret]

the one aspect I wished they buffed about the tank honestly, it's a bit stupid, especially when there's like, 3 other heavies that have the same exact dispersion values. Type 71 for example 💀

[burnt venture]

AP doesn't butter the front hull really. It's still like 270mm effective, and in a sidescrape the shoulders still go almost to 300. Unless enemies load gold or you're just fighting TDs, you should be fine

And the playstyle changed so you should more likely be looking at a lot more positional play and hulldown

[fickle tinsel]

you cant really brawl anymore. facehugs/brawling e100s and e5s pen the upper plate with ap which i didn't expect

[burnt venture]

... and which part of the changes tell you that you should still be able to facehug like before? 💀

It's a heavium that now engages mid to short range. It's no longer a brawling heavy. If you play it like the same way as before that's kind of a you problem

[fickle tinsel]

my point is they can pen with ap in a facehug. the tank can only hulldown now which makes it pointless to drive when theres better hulldown tanks with more dpmn

[burnt venture]

You can still sidescrape better than pretty much anything outside of German tanks and still have pretty reliable firepower

[void siren]

the st-i has a better upper and lower side armor plate

[winter dagger]

and there's the menace that is the 60tp

[void siren]

to be fair it pens almost as bad as the kpz 70 now

[winter dagger]

i mean

[molten tulip]

The pen isnt bad tbh
347mm is still enough to go through just about anything youll come up against

[stone drum]

Sure... just like how leopard has an insane 330 heat pen..

[winter dagger]

And Sheridan has 340 🤣

[stone drum]

You say that like their are an abundance of such tanks at tier X.

[twilit crystal]

60tp is brain dead because that lower plate is so ratchet, its literally the only tank in the game that can stay unangled at mid range in the open while not moving at all and bounce shots semi reliably against fully aimed tanks

[burnt venture]

no tank should have like randomly just autobounce belly armor. It's terrible design

[gray garden]

60TP is still gonna be comp meta this season despite the mild nerfs

[burnt venture]

best joke of 2023

[fickle tinsel]

prob e5 since the turret will be even stronger for holding and it has dpm again as well as sandbags and heat

[gray garden]

Didn't mean comp meta. Just meant used in comp

[fickle tinsel]

i wonder if kran will see use with its increased mobility

[burnt venture]

You'd probably be lucky to see a couple.

60TP's got a lot of competition. VK72 is the big one, E100 has the alpha, IS-7 has the mobility, alpha, and armor for pushing, and you have many more accurate tanks rolling around now like E5 and Kran which can hold, but also reliably hit shots at mid range.

60TP in the older meta was very effective because it was mostly fighting other tanks which were inaccurate, namely other 60TPs and IS-7s.

Kran though might see less use than anticipated, just because of how much DPM there is. I wouldn't be surprised to see more pushing, more aggression, and less of these cap-and-hold strats.

[gray garden]

In terms of punishing pushes with one shot I would say that you were spot on. I'd love to see some E100s in there

[fickle tinsel]

maus will also be middle of the pack in dpm now and have 3278 hp which isnt too far off the 3500 when it was last used

[burnt venture]

Maus will still be pretty much exclusively for town maps. New Bay, Alpen, Dynasty, stuff like that.

What's pretty decent about this meta is that there are a pretty good range of options, and most likely we are going to see different lineups for different maps instead of like the same 3 tanks

[winter dagger]

Oh bro is7 is fricking cracked, is it me or did the armor get better somehow, and whose idea was to give it tungsten like 😶

[remote sluice]

imo the 215b is in a much much better place than it used to be. although it didnt get buffed as much as others, the new mobility it has is allowing it to either take hulldown positions faster or go shoot mediums. i rlly love the 215b now after the buffs it got, and tho its still nowhere as good and comfy to play compared to things like the e5 and dozens of other tanks, i still love this tank and i can def say it is a total beast if u play to its strengths

[stone drum]

Actually alot of tanks have autobounce belly armour, it's just due to 60tp model design that its it's issue.

[stone drum]

AMX m4 mle. 54 will likely dissappear from comp. I wouldn't be surprised if e6 entered comp line-ups

[winter dagger]

3,380 in the glory days I believe

[remote sluice]

i do love how the 215b and foch, although both are still not insane in this meta, became much more competitive cus of the new speed for 215b and much better consistency for foch. love to see that.

now please buff the alpha for vickers light lmao 300 is kinda pathetic. why cant it be 320 or 330? that would still be nice

[scenic olive]

Dude I swear they stealth buffed the armor, like the texture looks different when u scope in on it, am I going crazy?

[winter dagger]

215b may be used in comp for some shenanigans, but Foch is better off with single shot imo

@scenic olive I SWEAR THEY DID LMAO, I CAN BARELY PEN IT WHEN ANGLED WITH MED PREM

[solid sequoia]

The armor effectively got better due to lots of tanks losing penetration. Especially with the loss of a lot of AP standard rounds for APCR, since the angles are what make the IS-7 armor really effective

[winter dagger]

Ohhh

[remote sluice]

ehhh the single shot is kinda meh after the accuracy nerf, i feel like the autoloader, ironic enough, is now way more consistent at hitting shots and doing damage than the single shot 💀

[lone sandal]

OH

[remote sluice]

that might explain why my e100 bounces so much more these past few days

[slender latch]

Is E5's dpm now the same as pre-9.1?

[thorny timber]

E5 was always used in comp lmao,it's just gonna be used even more now

[novel kiln]

Ik it sounds deranged but in CCRS we use E 100's for szn

[solid sinew]

Nooooooooo whay WG!?

[quasi finch]

DS PZInz has to have either better credit gaining coef or higher penetration. It's the worst one among Tier 5 MTs. Have you even tested it? I end up using premium ammo to shoot the side of KV-1, let alone its front lower plate

[marsh belfry]

no one really care about tier 5, neither will wg

[clear shuttle]

why would they give a tier 5 tech tree a better credit coeff ☠️

[novel narwhal]

What if wotb add artillery

[ember idol]

They would be pretty annoying and would get tunneled by lights in the first 2 minutes

[slender latch]

In a small map that would be pretty hard to play unless they have like a TD mode where you play it like a grille but would be toxic facing 155mm in tiers 4-5.

[azure marten]

Churchill GC (tier 6 but still)

[burnt venture]

CS-63 is the entire circus

[stuck acorn]

fr, this tank is so garbage

[winter dagger]

Only good mechanic, fastest reverse at tier ten with gear oils 🤣

[velvet parcel]

It's really frustrating that the team isn't playing as well as they should, and it's disappointing that you, the players, allow this imbalance between the win and loss percentages to happen It seems like you will continue to let this happen, there won't be any change here Only friends of the management will continue to play however they want.

[spice mortar]

WZ-111 5A AP alpha going from 460 to 440. RNG follows. Better mobility, true, but the less alpha is having an impact, not only in regular mode but Reality fun mode too, for example

[fickle shoal]

*gimmick is more fitting to the reverse speed

[unique scaffold]

I’m really not sure what you are saying here… other than to complain about matchmaking. But here’s the thing. This isn’t a channel for players to complain about matchmaking in. It is a channel for players to discuss tank balance. Hope this description helps.

[scenic olive]

There is way too many meds in the match maker rn, it’s insane how fast games are going because everyone just yolos med side. Slow, low dpm heavies are torture to play rn like e100.

[queen geyser]

KEKW

[scenic olive]

Wdym? It’s true, I like playing meds but I wanted to try out the e100 and I was struggling to hit 3k in all of my games, which was never a problem before the update, and it’s not the reload nerf that’s causing it. By the time I get into position on heavy side the entire med flank is dead and I get pooped on by 4k dpm obj 140s. And I’m way too slow to get damage if I go med side which everyone seems to do every game this update, I swear I barely get into games where the heavies go heavy side and meds go med side anymore.

[nimble zodiac]

That's because heavy tanks have been encroaching on medium tanks with their speed and HP

[queen geyser]

Honestly they should nerf mediums to 250 premium pen and buff heavies

[fickle tinsel]

Even fatness commented on this before the update. that teams are going all 7 on one side way more often. no map control whatsoever. and that games are often blowouts or landslides 7, 6-0 making it hard to be consistently well above average because you basically have to stick with the team and work behind them now in games with no map control and where you'll get yoloed if you make any sort of aggressive play

[scenic olive]

Ur not understanding me, I’m not saying heavies are under powered I’m saying the e100 struggles in this meta, along with other slow heavies(accept vk72 it’s busted) so I don’t know why your making sarcastic comments. @fickle tinsel ya it’s really sad

[queen geyser]

U didnt said that the e100 struggles in this meta either, u said that u struggle to hit 3k in all of your games

[scenic olive]

I could have worded that better but I meant all of my games in e100, Im not struggling at all in high dpm meds. The entire message was about how slow heavies struggle is this “entire team yolo one side” meta

[velvet parcel]

"I'm not complaining; I'm starting a discussion about the game because, in my opinion, it's not fair. I expect the game developers to consider this seriously because it doesn't make sense that you help your friends progress in the game while others invest time and money. It's disrespectful to call me an illegitimate player just because I'm not involved in this."

[queen geyser]

I get what u want to say however I have complet diffrent opinion on the topic

"Heavies going heavy side and mediums going med side" is a thing u dont and shouldnt do on most maps, many maps have "winning" or "game winning" side, there are some maps where this is in my opinion not the case, for example Castelia in my opinion where u need a "map split", like ur teammates on every flank to spot for each other and to win
However there are many maps where winning one side with 7 people is better because u after all 50% of the map and if that side is better then your enemies, well u have a high chance of winning, for example in my opinion Port Pay Medium side or Middleburg medium side, getting that said side is almost everytime a win
Well the problem here is that not every tank can do that, u kinda dont want to go on middleburg medium side with a Maus, my simple solution for this is: Just dont play these tanks, tanks that limit your gameplay shouldnt be your choice if u win, at least for me, but this was for me a thing since I started this game 2 years ago, not just now, now only some mediums got a lot better at their job, which results in people who are alone in the city getting harder punished

HOWEVER even if I think all this, the E100, Maus, IS4 etc where rly great last patch when looked at Server winrate from players with 55-65% and I think that wont change, espically since Maus got buffed pretty huge and E100 wasnt rly nerfed either

[scenic olive]

Way too many points to respond to😭 but respect your opinion 👍

[nimble zodiac]

There’s like 3

[stone drum]

I kinda wish Bisonte had 65mm of HE pen & 440 alpha on HE.

I know it's already a strong tank, but it would be nice & wouldn't really effect its playstyle or anything.

[unique scaffold]

What?

Talk about tank balance in this channel.

[winter dagger]

It would be a better e2 shark atp 💀

[scenic olive]

Bro I’m so sick of these bc25t platoons😭😭

[velvet parcel]

"It's funny how you refuse to acknowledge that your balance isn't fair when you help your friends. Haha. It's amusing how you can deny it when everyone knows and sees that you're engaging in dishonest practices."

[quick lichen]

Both teams have 7 players. Just play better

[velvet parcel]

I know how to play very well. I have a 61% win rate and 20,000 battles . I just know how much they're not making this game balanced. I'm so close to some friends who told me they're helping them. Haha.

[stone drum]

I don't think it would really change its performance, it would just be nice

[fickle tinsel]

meanwhile we have tanks like the t44 that exist in the same tier 💀

@velvet parcel what are you blabbering about

[velvet parcel]

Did you ever think why the game sometimes runs slowly? You're a smart guy; I'm sure you'll discover that there are people who manipulate it to happen.

[full token]

wg hasnt developed the game well enough that itll never lag on phones lmao. Whyd they make it lag on purpose

[nimble zodiac]

1. This isn’t the channel to talk about it
2. Go see a doctor

We’re not even talking about true balance. This is “tank-balance-discussion”. Geez. Stop trolling.
I would be violating your privacy to go through your interactions with your close friends who have WG bias

[velvet parcel]

"Listen, it seems like you need a doctor. It's not okay to talk about true balance. I think you need to understand that I'm speaking from experience. And your response only seems to prove that I'm right. If you wanted to say I'm wrong, prove it. We have no way to trust the game developers that there's no foul play here."

[fickle tinsel]

Your experience is wrong and you sound like the type of person who thinks they know more than professionals because they spent 5 minutes watching shady youtube videos

Also like the other guy said this is TANK balance channel not MM balance

[full token]

there already was proof the teams were balanced fairly

[velvet parcel]

"Yes, and right after that, all the friends join in."

[fickle tinsel]

Why do you type literally everything in quotations

[wooden lynx]

I would like a balanced tank class on the MM, but unfortunately there might be not enough of said tank class therefore ie. One team gets an 3 TDs and the other gets 2.

[nimble zodiac]

@quick lichen I’m sure this guy has no plan to stop, so I’m requesting an exterminator

[velvet parcel]

"Keep believing and facing difficulties in the game. Thanks to you, the online experience continues to decline. Have you ever thought about why? Think about it."

[full token]

yea somehow you have proof everyone is a friend of wg and gets help?

[fickle tinsel]

Him typing everything in quotations is a clear sign something isn't right in the attic

[wooden lynx]

Dude is using ChatGPT for the argument

[winter dagger]

Lmao, his english is like a fever dream

[unique scaffold]

This is the last time I’m telling you. This is a chat for tank balance. Do not cry about matchmaking here.

[gleaming apex]

muworld was muted.

[ripe aspen]

[burnt venture]

I wonder what happens if we give a blanket DPM buff to almost every tank, and then give an alpha buff to the tanks that don't get DPM buffs, buff heavy tank mobility on top of that, and then have a random pool of 7 tanks which basically only exist as detriments to the team

Being down 1 tank on the flank is now a huge issue. You need to run away ASAP because 1 extra tank could mean 3k extra DPM on the flank. And then with all the tungsten and whatever else super consumables entire tanks just melt down in 10-20 seconds to any kind of focus fire, especially meds and lights. Teammates that are not good players who make a mistake early on in the game against more than a couple tanks are instantly dead in a 5 second window and you're basically down so much DPM that it's very hard to come back unless the enemies throw their tanks away.

People are quickly learning that if you're up tanks on a flank, you can basically just yolo them en masse, have plenty of room to make mistakes such as missing shots, and still win by a blowout, especially if the other team has one of the aforementioned 7 tanks which are just bottom tier trash.

And in return, some players are playing a more passively because of how much alpha and DPM is now in the game at tier X. There's been a ton of 2 minute games, but also some examples where both teams are just sitting in spawn not moving because nobody wants to make a play alone and get punished.

They've actually gone and balanced tier X just like tier 7, it's crazy how anybody at WG thought them nerfing pen would make games slower

[unique scaffold]

Day one of me asking for a 10% global view range nerf.

[burnt venture]

there kind of was some view range nerfs this update? It wasn't global but a lot of TDs did get view range nerfs

[unique scaffold]

That’s a start.

I’d still like to see a global nerf though. 10% or so. Make the maps seem better without actually changing them. Open up more opportunities for flanking.

[twilit crystal]

keep batchat at 285 i need the memes https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/511476939429642257/1157861530260480001/image.png?ex=651aced4&is=65197d54&hm=8645b125c797023c4594bdd149886011cc0924e83f036dc5c4685e8c0dd7e589&, no you can't just ruin my camping at the back of the map on the red line

[fickle tinsel]

some maps would also just be a lot better with a rework too. Like the one hill side of port bay being way worse so the heavies camp in spawn and throw the game instead of pushing to the middle hill area

[unique scaffold]

7,000 languages and this man chose to speak facts. Well put and I agree.

[burnt venture]

Special mechanic for TDs:

When more than 100m away from any allies, camo and viewrange drop to 0% and 0M, while sixth sense stops working because commander is focused on sniping targets 500m away

We can call this new mechanic "tunnel mode"

[ancient rampart]

So damn true

[unique scaffold]

That would actually be kinda cool mechanic

[twilit crystal]

running camo net on the bc has been a hoot, you still outspot every tank in the game outside of a bc running optics and maybe the wz 132 1

[void siren]

How about “when you’re zoomed in you don’t spot people outside your zoomed in view”

[fickle tinsel]

well then people under 45 wr will never spot anyone ever

[void siren]

Good!

[scenic apex]

Realistic mode in regular, I like that

[fickle tinsel]

maybe it will persuade them to stop pushing me into the line of fire

[olive umbra]

Realistic mode in regular is cool and make light and med unable to pen heavies then it will be good xD

[loud kelp]

Why is the 263 so Op 🦅

[acoustic estuary]

It’s not.

No.

[loud kelp]

It is, it’s legit a more mobile badger with more dpm

[solid sequoia]

With much less flexibility

[acoustic estuary]

Less effective armor, pen.

[loud kelp]

So, it’s way faster and has more dpm. Its also way more troll

[solid sequoia]

Slightly more dpm, but way worse accuracy and gun angles, and also a worse overall armor profile

[ember idol]

Anybody playing the game long enough would know where to pen heavies

[loud kelp]

Yea but the maneuverability on the 263 makes it way more effective, Its also way less team dependent

[solid sequoia]

It still lacks flexibility is most situations

[winter dagger]

They've removed most of the fun about tier ten, making almost no tank fun. Even in my 215b I am always just no longer enjoying tier ten because every other tank does one thing, hulldown and pen me even more. Heck a 62a hulldowns better than me. And the tier ten Lt view range has changed 3 times, from Vickers to Sheridan now BC. Holy crap wg can't decide what to do. But better yet let's give a clipper highest view range. I was playing my wz121 the other day and a leopard + Sheridan ripped me to pieces. What is the point of playing fun tanks when everything is getting power crept by either DPM, or no pen. I was permatracked by an obj 140. How is that fun. Atp id rather play tier 8 and run around in my t49 fearless, because it looks like map control and an actual strat in pub no longer exists. I have not had a actual carry game within maybe 1,000 battles already, because either my team is fked or the enemy is. And it doesn't help people still don't know how to play their tanks, not counting the tanks that suck ass stat wise

[clear shuttle]

i am one of those players who abuse the bat chats full view range and go around clipping people for 1050+
thank you wargaming!

[stone drum]

Im cooking hard rn.

What do you guys thing the dpm of large caliber guns should be at tier X.

2500 or around 2500-2625?

@winter dagger most tds have way more than 2.8k dpm???

[harsh ravine]

The FV 4202 got shafted this update. The HEAT gun now shoots APCR base for whatever reason and the HESH gun was crapped on.

HESH is supposed to be the speciality of British mediums. I don’t know why they keep unnecessarily nerfing the RoF of HESH guns. Like legit, the only tanks of the British medium line where the HESH gun is a viable choice are the Centurions. There’s no reason to use the HESH gun on the Comet and there’s absolutely no justification using the HESH gun of the FV4202 now.

[twilit crystal]

perma tracking is good lol, stop running adrenaline and tungsten if you don't want to be perma tracked. If you run double repair getting perma tracked is about as rare as an ammorack for most tanks.

[winter dagger]

2.4k like the e100, TDs get a pass at 2.8k

[winter dagger]

That's why I'm saying it shouldn't be higher than that with few exceptions, as meds should always have the good dpm/best dpm feature

[patent vapor]

well said honestly. the number of 1-2 min games for me as well have increased drastically. Super 1 sided games. They are usually 0-7 or 7-0. And its worse on asia bcs most the playerbase here are pretty damn moronic even with 20k games.

Regarding the light tank changes, they're good, however I don't completely support the drastic changes of lights from update to update. The meta literally has shifted from light tank to light tank every few update which is really annoying. the fact that the bc now has the same dmg output as a mt and insane view range (I have no idea why it just doesn't become a mt with that 1050 clip like the t95e6 should just become a medium with its insane mobility and dpm) is actually ridiculous.

Everything is getting better at countering its weaknesses. Badger was a 1 trick pony before the traverse speed buff (which makes no sense to me still). Instead of getting a gun handling/dpm buff (making it good at what its meant to do bcs from my experience, the gun is pretty derpy) its weakness is basically removed for no reason.

Autoloaders all have massive clips with massive damage. So the yolo playstyle is encouraged more. I still don't get the 50b armour nerf to the point where its not even a heavy. Its the size of a barn, has to expose itself for longer than when it had 3 shots and can't even get the occasional bounce anymore.

And the 4005 reverse speed nerf to 10km is so 🤮. For a cardboard tank that has to poke a corner and dump 1640 into a single tank, its now much more punishing to play and not like it was fun to come up against anyways.

So dumb 1 push yolo plays are more rewarding if it goes right, but also punishing for your team if they go wrong. All your eggs are literally in 1 basket. Yolo plays are more appealing than ever for tomato noobs. No real thoughtful strategy

[twin egret]

Good enough, that will bring several mediums' pens that are at 245 or below, to 250mm

[fickle tinsel]

"tomato noobs" 🤣🤣

[tidal sluice]

they did the IS-4 real dirty with the new update

[wicked quest]

Feels good to see people seethe with a heavy change

[chilly token]

Now ST-I have better armor and penetration

[patent vapor]

ikr. tank was so meta beforehand that its armour needed to be that much worse than the type 71...

[lone sandal]

they are trying to turn the is4 into an is8, which is a step in the right direction, but the buffs are insufficient
is4 needs a bit of engine power, otm dispersion and dpm

[lethal fox]

The IS4 got it dirty but personally as one who gets annoyed by it I cant help but smile as I bully those tanks given theyre so annoying in the past updates

[wicked quest]

Heavies have been dominating for way too long it’s about time one finally got adjusted as you can see by the tears it worked

[lethal fox]

Lmao, personally I play heavies alot, and I am fine with some nerfs, but I do have my biases specifically toward the IS4, but Im also happy for the buffed German HTs (they're the most vulnerable to prammo spam). Gotta say too the 60tp damage buff is welcome though hehe, it's my favorite tier 10 heavy

[sacred mural]

Whats wrong with people cs63 is worst tech tree tier 10 medium tank in the game rn

[lethal fox]

Me when people have their own opinions

[marsh belfry]

the tank isnt great, but people are happy with a new tech tree line

[ember idol]

People had hopes

[clear shuttle]

if its terrible then it’ll get buffed in the future

[winter dagger]

It's not terrible, just boring like vz on release

[scenic olive]

I hope the new Chinese heavies won’t be mid like all the other recent lines have been, I actually would rather new tech trees come out as broken than be boring.

[winter dagger]

Oh boy hopefully they don't add rocket boosters on a tank with a 152mm gun and insane armor, totally the most balanced tank to release (unless they axe the stats)

[clear shuttle]

watch their gonna add no mechanic but give it gear oil and super speed boost to compensate

[slate plume]

Moment

[thorny timber]

not all new tanks have to be absurdly broken with non existent weakspots,its balance and it might get buffed eventually

[lone sandal]

what?? tanks are supposed to have weakspots?? this is mind blowing, i thought tanks are supposed to have 60tp hatch sized weakspots and should all have 60tp style lower lower plates

[thorny timber]

everything needs to be prammo spammed anyways lmao,only if they actually got weakspots to make it fair for the lights

[clear shuttle]

i thought every new tech tree had to be idiot-proof and super easy to use while being super good at the same time

[winter dagger]

Ah yes the release of the type 71 line...

[clear shuttle]

why couldn’t the CS-63 be as easy to play and good as the on release type? this is absolutely unacceptable!!! 🤬🤬🤬👎👎👎

[sacred mural]

Trust me People cry about op tanks but they want op tanks bcs they are fun to play, cs63 offers litterally nothing : it has no armor, it has bad dpm, it has bad pen, it is slow if you play without improved gear oil, its not that accurate, not verry quick why ppl should grind this line yes we dont need broken tanks but at the same time we dont need boring bad tanks such as : cs63, wz132, vz55 we need enjoyable tanks and wg dont give us

[solid sequoia]

I don’t know why people keep saying the CS has bad pen when in terms of medium tanks it’s has some of the highest penetration

@queen geyser It’s 6/17 on standard and while it is 290 on premium, the shell type makes it better than 300 HEAT which a lot of mediums have

[queen geyser]

? its not even 300 premium, just 290 APCR and the standart has 248, not even that a big diffrence to T62A with 245

[lone sandal]

is4 really needs a few small buffs
buff base dpm from 2433 to 2460
buff otm dispersion from 0.2/0.2/0.1 to 0.15/0.15/0.1
buff base engine power from 820 to 900

[lofty delta]

It's not balanced when the opposing team has 2 Tier 10 light tanks, and my team has 2 Tier 9 light tanks. It's just known from the outset what will happen. I have a good win rate of 61%, and I understand the game and invest in it. I'm not complaining; I'm just saying that it's unreasonable for one team to have Tier 9 tanks while the other has Tier 10 tanks. Furthermore, their DPM (damage per minute) is weak, and our entire team lacks the firepower needed to defend against them. With all due respect to the game, this needs improvement."

[solid sequoia]

1. Read pinned comments.
2. The fact that you’re not only up a heavy tank, but that your heavies are also dead before everyone else is a bigger issue than the tier discrepancy.

[turbid ice]

Players saying IS-4 is ruined when it’s not be like:
Like ok, yes the HP nerf hurts, but it has more mobility. Like a lot of players said, you can gun block, angle, and you’ll be fine. I really like how IS-4 is right now.

[sacred mural]

İ could understand mino but if you cant pen 60tp on front thats skill issue

[slate plume]

Is still balance you just need to have a lot of skills and good positioning if you played well in that match you could win it instead of saying it's "unbalanced"

[lone sandal]

ur dead in the first 2 minutes while being in an e5 that is unfathomable

[lofty delta]

i know play ok stop teach me . Nevertheless, at the very least, balance the teams according to DPM (Damage Per Minute) to make the balancing relevant for both teams.

[lethal fox]

I don't have the IS4 so I can't personally tell how much it changed, I'm happy though I can pen it alot easier, heh. I'm happy my German superheavies got some nice buffs tho.

[thorny timber]

yeah,good luck trying to hit that lower plate anywhere further 30m lmao

[lone sandal]

I'm blind

[violet island]

impressive cause first screen is mines and second desert sands

[lofty delta]

I want to make it clear that I'm a dedicated player, not someone who just comes to complain. My intention is to provide constructive feedback for improving game balance

[fickle tinsel]

that's not even the same map...?

[lone sandal]

well for starters balancing teams with dpm doesn't really work because autoreloaders exist

[nimble zodiac]

The feedback will not help, as WG doesn’t want to deal with matchmaking. Sometimes teams are just flat out better equipped to fight the other team, other times they have the short end of the stick. When teams are created that way, a lot of the time, it’s because of one team having too many strong tanks, which is a tank-balance problem. Complaining about matchmaking itself will not help. This channel is for people to talk about tank balance.

[quick lichen]

Teams are only meant to be balanced roughly by type. The whole point of match making is short queue times. Individual tank capabilities aren’t part of it

[lone sandal]

what tanks are too strong right now
genuine question

[fickle tinsel]

bludski just doesn't want to cope with the fact that he has literally the best tank for that map and died first with 400 damage dealt. If anything his team was better for mines since lights struggle and he had a frontline turreted td (mino)

[quick lichen]

This channel is not about mm balance. Also. Mm balance isn’t a thing beyond 7 per side lol

[lofty delta]

While I understand that this channel may be primarily focused on discussing tank balance, it's essential to recognize that matchmaking balance does play a significant role in the overall gaming experience. While 7 vs. 7 balance is a critical aspect, ensuring that the matchmaking system creates fair and enjoyable battles for all players, regardless of the specific number per side, is also essential for maintaining a healthy player base and a positive gaming environment. It's about finding a balance in all aspects of the game to provide the best possible experience for everyone. I wish you the best of luck. This is my last message for now because I don't have the energy to deal with the team. Now he will start with his hierarchy.

[quick lichen]

It’s not primarily focused on tank balance, it’s only focused on tank balance. Wrong channel. Find another place.

[solid sequoia]

The fact of the matter is that match making doesn’t require any balance discussion, it is already balanced. It is random for all players, making it inherently balanced.

On other matters, I’m genuinely excited to watch comp now. Full on dpm brawls are way more exciting than watching teams cap and then wait till there’s 2 minutes left to push and do anything

[burnt venture]

Unbalanced fights on Mines is never the cause of matchmaking. It's the cause of Mines being Mines.

A map that only caters to two kinds of tanks, at a tier where every tank is the most specialized in playing specific roles. What could go wrong I wonder

[winter dagger]

Ah yes Mines, the worse map aside from the camp disaster that is dead rail

[quick lichen]

I’ve enjoyed the feeling of the 150-155mm tds in tier x lately. The 268 feels decent again and e4 feel much better than when I first got it

[burnt venture]

bro really missed out on last patch's E4

[fickle tinsel]

which is funny because he was in an e5 and then posted a fake screenshot from a completely different battle when asked how he died first LOL

[burnt venture]

Just because you are in an E5 doesn't make Mines a good map either.

Taking both hill and having heavy tanks playing mid is key on Mines. Except the only way you take hill is be the fastest tank on both teams, which is ENTIRELY dictated by MM. And whoever has better hulldown heavys, is also ENTIRELY dictated by MM. Ofc not saying that this is some guaranteed thing, but whichever team has faster tanks and decent hulldown heavy tanks have a MUCH higher chance of winning the game provided they actually somewhat play the right spots.

The entire initial complaint was that MM put tier X lights against tier 9 lights, which most likely resulted in enemy lights taking hill which basically locked off any kind of gameplay for OP's entire team. At that point, the best play is to just sit around and do nothing. Dude probably tried to play aggressive and got crossfired

Mines is utter garbage because it manages to be close quarters only, while also being super campy because it's just hulldown tanks staring at each other while TDs can really only punish mistakes over the hill. Like this is how Mines works:

• you take hill in a fast LT: get 1 or 2 cross shots, then sit there for 5 minutes proxy spotting enemies while not playing the game because the map forces your tank that loves open spaces into a tiny cramped position where you're permaspotted
• you go hill in a hulldown heavy while your team takes the hill: get 1 or 2 shots before enemies hide in the cubbyhole, then spend 5 minutes getting tortured by TDs while only able to shoot other hulldown heavy's turrets
• you go hill in a hulldown heavy while enemy team takes hill: immediately start getting farmed by enemy heavy tanks and retreat to a cubbyhole. Permaspotted by light tanks, you sit there for 5 minutes waiting for your team to do something and waiting for people on the hill to make a mistake
• TD gameplay: stare and spam HE at hulldown tanks and wait for them to push for 5 minutes
• Medium gameplay: go island and camp

[fickle tinsel]

It's not a good map but he should've been able to perform IMO unless his tds were just absolutely useless. Honestly though despite it not being a great map I feel like I rarely have poor games on mines. Seems like the lower WR players always get impatient at a point and make a dumb play if you're willing to wait and not bleed hp

[burnt venture]

that's exactly the problem. The entire map punishes any kind of aggression, and there's nowhere to actually go. So if you play any form of aggressive especially when enemies have the hill, you die really fast.

It's not something that a lot of players understand tbh, even though everybody plays this map from tier 1

[winter dagger]

The clown show that is a 12 second reload on a hella accurate tank with troll cupola

[scenic olive]

Hopefully they do🙏I want it to be beyond broken. It should have 0 weak spots on turret, 60tp levels of hull armor, 700 alpha with 3k dpm, and go 50 forward and 20 in reverse. If these requirements aren’t met I shall not be grinding the new line👍

[lone sandal]

wotb players when they can't inflate their wr with the latest demon tank wg released

what is THE tank

[winter dagger]

The tank is also unfun just saying

[burnt venture]

Watch the Chinese heavy tanks just be another VZ-55 line

[sacred mural]

Are they bring new chinese heavy line ?

[fickle tinsel]

As i keep saying new line releases SHOULD be ~top 2/3 top 75% by WR. Now people with poor reading comprehension keep saying I'm saying they should make every new line the strongest which I'm not. 66%-75% percentile in WR rankings makes sense. Enough to make it competitive among the top tanks and worth grinding. Then they can nerf/buff the tank or other tanks later once the hype wears off. They already do this with premiums which can't even be rebalanced but apparently people are adverse to tech tree tanks being competitive?

[twin egret]

They should:
Rework the left and right sides of the map to promote players to actually go there and not feel vulnerable when trying
Remove the dumb boulder near the top of the hill entrance so brain dead rushing is harder (changes to shell reload at the start kinda negated it for lower tiers but persists in tier 10).
Make the map more symmetrical that way north down(?) has less of an advantage over the other spawn, in turn making the hill bigger and more manageable.

[fringe quest]

Can anyone show me the new E5 armor profile

[solid sequoia]

Here you go

[cunning socket]

Whats aiming at it?

[solid sequoia]

Nothing…

[thorny timber]

its not pen,its just showing the primary armor,red=strong

[winter dagger]

Press F to agree (hope they make use of the 152 somehow, but I don't think rocket boosters gonna hit the game anytime soon)

[fickle tinsel]

if you poke perfectly that weak spot is below the barrel so it won't be possible to hit

[burnt venture]

• return encounter cap to the hill

[shy wren]

That does sound enticing... very bold way to force teams to contest the hill, while the area surrounding the hills is meant for flanking.

[unique scaffold]

Yes

[stone drum]

AMX m4 mle. 54 balance adjustment suggestion

Mobility-
Tank weight increased to 82 tonnes
Terrain resistances set to 1.1/1.3/1.9
Engine power increased to 1200

Survivability-
Sandbag armour provision removed
Health pool decreased by 50 points.
hull sides reduced to 55mm thickness
Rear hull reduced to 40mm thickness
Armour behind Mantlet reduced to 100mm thickness
Upperplate & Upper lower plate increased to 250mm thickness.
Hull deck thickness increased to 55mm

Armaments-
New gun: Canon de 138 mm Mle. R1934 C
Shell type set at AP/AP/HE
Shell damage set at 525/450/700
Shell penetration set 240/290/70
Shell velocity set at 800/700/840
Reload set at 13.9 (12.21 equipped)
Dispersion set at .364 (.344 equipped)
Aim-time set at 5.5s (4.7s equipped)
Gun handling set at .16/.16/.16

[proud abyss]

You want it to be a glass cannon or wut

[stone drum]

Its not a glass Canon, but just straight buffing a heavy is an illogical idea. The goal however is to make fair and equal trades so that it does not become excessively oppressive.

[scenic olive]

If your asking what tank I was talking about, I was referring to the bz 175 I think is the name, it’s the next line coming to blitz and it better be broken or wg gonna have to speak with me🤬

[fringe quest]

Ok so armor inspector finally updated on me and checked the E5s armor and it’s still good for hulldown

[mental haven]

nobody cares ur suggestion 😀

[lost depot]

Smasher needs reti and tungsten.

[stone drum]

I fail to see how that relates to the channel topic.

[nimble zodiac]

Love that despite someone replying to it, invoking the purpose of this channel (discussion), you come in and suggest nobody cares about his statement, which doesn't contribute to the discussion at all, and frankly, takes away from it.

@stone drum Interesting that the gun mantlet (when shot somewhat directly on the upper part of the center) adds up to 334mm against AP on full gun depression, and about 320mm against AP when flat on. Hitting lower would be more effective too. Sounds balanced, though. The alpha might just be a bit much for the accuracy

[cunning socket]

Take the L and move on

[rapid basin]

Who asked? No one did. Also no one cares about ur suggestion so shut

[nimble zodiac]

Woah hey, the language didn’t have to be a part of this 😬

[sonic plaza]

Man I really need AMX M4 MLE 54 in shop

[stone drum]

I absolutely considered the accuracy and thought about a similar case, hence why I decided upon a rather long aiming time & a low penetration value to justify the very good dispersion values. Similarly I wanted to emphasize a more active rather than passive hull-down role, so I felt the very poor dispersion factor on turret movement would serve to not only limit the effectiveness of hulldown gameplay, but also to allow easier flanking & counterplay by other vehicles, especially mediums.

Btw thank you for the kind feedback and support!

[nimble zodiac]

The problem with nerfing accuracy is that it also discourages active gameplay. The player might want to just be hulldown so they can be safe while they sit still and aim at enemies. Map design can be blamed for this, as hulldown spots are too easy to use and they watch over too much of the map.
By engaging a passive hulldown heavy, you can get things done, but those things that are done are not done in your favor.

The 450 alpha would support a more active playstyle, as a lower alpha and reload makes the tank more versatile. If they buffed accuracy with that 450 alpha, then AMX could be very different, but unique

[mental haven]

"really good wotb player" spoken

[stone drum]

I was trying to use the feel of the gun of the AMX mle. 45 to base the statistics of the additional m4 gun.

However you may have noted I am suggesting an additional rather than a replacement gun, to give players a variety of gameplay options. Initially I was going to propose some changes to the current gun, but I couldn't find a solution I felt was significantly better than the current one.

[mental haven]

conductor we have a problem😋

also m4 is balanced rn. There is no change needed

[granite flint]

so when is wg giving its heavy tanks armor back ?

or reversing all the mistakes done in 10.3

[burnt venture]

Suggestion: reset game to 1.0 and start from scratch

[granite flint]

id say 5.4, game got downhill fast after that

"The very heart of the game is the vehicles balance. What do you think about it?"
i think it needs a heart transplant asap

[past vale]

Agree, even the IS-4 is playable. Honestly only the VK90 feels stronger after this patch, the lower plate buff + many heavies getting trashier APCR mean that hull armor might be in the meta again.

[uneven turtle]

Every german heavy feels stronger

[granite flint]

and every soviet heavy feels overally weaker

[lethal fox]

Well every German HT got buffs:
Maus: Armor
E100: Alpha
Vk72: DPM
Vk90: Armor

Like even the E50M (heavium) too which got a small armor buff, a buff nonetheless man German mains must be kinda happy (like me 🙂 )

[twilit crystal]

vk90 also got combat stab which is pretty important for a tank that sidescrapes

[bleak sail]

K 91 any good?

[acoustic estuary]

👍

[sonic plaza]

For those Big giants.....AMX M4 MLE 54 is existing..

[twilit crystal]

inferior 752

[stone drum]

What about it?

[granite flint]

buffing e50m's armor and nerfing some heavies shows how much the devs play the game they changing rn

[nimble zodiac]

Still really good though
@bleak sail

[sonic plaza]

I really want it dude...AMX is outstanding in my eyes... waiting for it in shop

[twin egret]

K-91 should've been a med

[jagged fern]

Have you guys seen any talk from the WG's balance team if they think they overdid it with the IS-4 nerf or not?

It's a bit surprising to me how bad the frontal plate has become. And a little disappointing this is the route they decided to take to nerf the tank.
Don't get me wrong, it really needed some nerf, but why the armor and why so much? Don't we have obj777, obj260 which are now direct counterparts to is-4?

Sure, while being hull down and sidescraping you don't feel the nerf, and you are still the heavy OG tank from the soviet tech tree, but even if the tank is still somehow playable, it seems like a flawed design.

Tank with no frontal armor is a questionable successor to ST-I and the rest of the line

[queen geyser]

Since WG says in their own video: "The Goal of all these changes is to let familiar tanks offer you new emotions and a novel gaming experience"
I dont think the goal of changing the IS4 was to balance it

[lone sandal]

buff its otm dispersion, engine power and dpm slightly

[lofty delta]

This tank is worthless; it's completely unbalanced in terms of both DPM and armor. Even at tier 7, it gets penetrated without any problem. It lacks speed and basically everything. It's a big disappointment, just like the entire game. They only care about money.

[jagged fern]

@lone sandal yes, you are right. And I do admit that IS-4 in the current form might not even be bad. What I take issue with is that it doesn't feel diverse evniugh.
It would be more fun in my opinion to have larger differences between obj777, IS-4 and IS-7 or WZ-113 so that each tank has its own specific identity and role.
(E.g. Rush into a position and hope to survive - IS-7
Rush into a position and hope to farm as much as possible? - obj777
Rush against mediums

Btw, I don't want to give the impression that I am hating on 10.3, just for the sake of hating.
I do think that it has brought some very nice changes with it.

The desert sands, hull down position infront of C is clever.
The TVP got a very needed nerf, but still is playable.
Almost every if not every medium tank now does seem to have a competitive role in the game and Kran is back in full force. E5 needs to focus on hull down, dpm gameplay instead of being forgiven for driving out into the open...

All in all, the only two things I am a little sadden by after testing the 10.3 changes is IS-4 and the fact that hori, the 4005 and quite a few other TDs got worse accuracy with better armor.

It seems a bit more fitting long-range TDs to rely on the gun and not the armor.

But at least the 268 and the grille still exist.

[remote sluice]

only fire the 2nd shell and that tank will be miles better. also, find a hill and only expose ur turret to enemies

[lofty delta]

Bro, I know how to play excellently; you don't need to teach me when my opinion is that the tank is disappointing and can't handle anything. It doesn't matter if I showcase the turret, it still gets penetrated easily. When you only see the turret, there are still sides that become vulnerable

[remote sluice]

well then idk how ur playing it, but when i played it it’s fantastic

[lofty delta]

Apparently my randomness is different from yours. When you have a problem with a tank, I'll remember you, and I'll mention that it's fantastic.

[queen geyser]

KEKW

[remote sluice]

man there’s nothing personal 💀 there’s rlly no need to be toxic.

but u do u then, im just trying to help.

[lofty delta]

Brother, I'm just saying, I'm really happy to have this discussion. You're the one taking it personally. I just mentioned that if you had something, I would be positive like you . why are you offended.

[queen geyser]

Its maybe because your english is google translator level and that can tend to offend people if you word stuff badly

[lofty delta]

You are correct. My English is not 100%, but I hope it's not taken the wrong way because, in the end, we're here to talk and have a positive and enjoyable discussion. Sometimes, as players, we need to balance negative comments about a tank with being positive. This means listening and suggesting other ideas. It just felt like he was overly positive, like if I were to say that the TVP is perfectly balanced at 100%, but that's not true, which is why they reduced its DPM.

[remote sluice]

nah i can be a bit too positive at times, but tvp is straight up busted. 4 shell autoloaders are rlly annoying to play against

[lofty delta]

You mentioned that the tank is very disappointing, particularly with its low damage per shot of 310, which you find quite underwhelming. You believe that if it had an alpha damage of 450 every 6-7 seconds, it would make players more cautious and afraid to engage. However, with the current damage output of 310, it doesn't deter them as much. You also pointed out that the tank heavily relies on the crew and without a skilled crew, it's not very effective.

As an active player, you feel that the tank needs some buffs. You suggest reducing its speed, increasing its alpha damage to 400-450, and sacrificing some accuracy. You believe that these changes would make the tank more significant and competitive. It's clear that your experience with the tank has shaped your perspective, and you think these adjustments would bring about a more meaningful gameplay experience 😄 🥹

[remote sluice]

nah give it 640 alpha and 1s intraclip and it’ll be balanced

[lofty delta]

https://tenor.com/view/too-much-ज़रीनखान-pinkvilla-too-much-going-on-excessive-gif-16902409

[remote sluice]

930 damage pershot 0.5s intraclip and itll be even more balanced

autoloading 183 💀

[forest ridge]

Nah give the 183 an alternative gun where it's like the tier 5 leopard with 930 dmg per shot

[candid sapphire]

What u guys think about is7

[iron hearth]

Buff is7 😢

[slender latch]

Is obj 777 overpowered at the moment or is it because other heavies are just underpowered?

Because I plan to get this tank next

[slate plume]

Troll armor, good dpm, very good accuracy, meh traverse, backwards speed only -12 km/h,

[lost crane]

It has strong turret armor, average dpm (more than 2,3k without shooting reserve shell), average mobility, high resistance against heat and he/hesh, and an interesting mechanic. It’s not a good tank, but definitely not a bad one. It’s just average for a T8 ht.

[winter dagger]

It has better turret armor than the t54e2 mind you

[fossil marten]

Are we allowed to talk about new tanks in testing? I’m not the tester, I’ve just met one in battle.

[winter dagger]

I mean it's not like you're leaking anything

[lofty delta]

Haha, level 7 tank hit me with every shot being a critical, and the reload time was so long, I had to wait for 30 seconds for the reload. That's a really bad and frustrating tank

[lost crane]

No way !!! Why are you shooting the reserve shell ? And yes, there is no tank without any weakpoint, so maybe, you should play in hulldown, to make the armour more efficient.

[fossil marten]

That’s what I thought. Just met one of these….
Didn’t look very good, no armour (yes it’s a light but it’s paper), low alpha pop gun, and meh mobility. The camo rating seemed ok, but overall didn’t appear to have anything much going for it 🤷🏻‍♂️

[lofty delta]

I'm an above-average player, so why should I sit in shrubbery when I can help my team with DPM (damage per minute) and the tank's survivability?

[quick lichen]

Are you going to actually follow the channels purpose or ?

[lost crane]

If you don't know how the reserve shell works, and use this tank like a 2 shot autoloader, you won't be of much help to your team. And a real above average player knows that map knowledge are really important, and you can hulldown at the frontline, hide the hull doesn't mean snipe like a td.

[valid mist]

Wg needs to nerf wz113 ft. It’s got 680 alpha and good armour with a stupidly low reload it’s gotten actualy op

[real bison]

it’s a turretless TD

make use of that fact

[clear shuttle]

since when did the 113g ft get 680 alpha

[winter dagger]

All I can say is... Prem version of fv light at tier 8, other than that there not much difference

[lofty delta]

I'm sorry, but it's not a balanced tank. It's more damaged than others, and I know how to use this system very well. I'm just saying that it's not balanced, and I've listed the reasons. I think I'm here to follow the rules and answer questions; I'm not trying to provoke anyone. When someone asks a question, @quick lichen I answer. Stop searching for me. I'm talking about the tank. You're exaggerating, and it seems like you have an issue with me personally. I will report this to your supervisor.

[slender latch]

I think you mean 640 alpha but its balanced either way

[lost crane]

He is just a modo, not your ennemy, and he does great job, you don't need to report anyone to a "supervisor", and, about the tank, you don't show any real reason, you're saying it have 30s reload, but it's only if you shoot the reserve shell, and the problem with armour can just be a problem of the player, try to play kv5 if you don't know how to use tank with frontal weakspot. And you don't show a real answer to this #tank-balance-discussion message, maybe the problem is not the tank 🤷‍♂️ ?

[quick lichen]

Report away

[lofty delta]

@quick lichen @lost crane Come on, let's separate the tank issue for a moment. Whether the tank is balanced or not doesn't matter. I'm still opening a discussion. However, I feel unwelcome here in this channel due to the moderator. Unfortunately, it feels like a form of oppressive behavior. I feel as if I personally offended him by speaking about it. It's very hurtful to me because, for heaven's sake, I don't have to come and prove that I'm wrong. I've played with tanks, and I think it needs improvement. You don't have to agree, but you don't need to treat me like someone who doesn't understand. There's a conversation here, not an attack

[slender latch]

They did a great job on the VK90, they gave it the frontal armor that the Maus needed. Good thing I got it in a container now I can let the Maus sit in the garage.

[quick lichen]

Except this is the second day in a row that I’ve spoken to you about it…

It’s just about the tanks themselves. Is it too strong, too slow, too weakly armored etc. That’s what this is for

[lost crane]

I'm sorry if you feel attacked, it wasn't my intention, I just want to know what your real argument are, to have a real discussion about a tank, and not just impressions which necessarily depend a lot on the player.

[quick lichen]

This

I’m happy to have you and anyone else here so long as you’re doing the right thing

So let me start over by asking, what do you think is unbalanced and why?

[lofty delta]

I will make a video, and I will upload it here so you can understand better. I will try my best to perform in the best battle I can to be effective.

[quick lichen]

We don’t really want replays and videos here. You can openly just discuss it

What tank or tanks are your concern?

I didn’t delete that

[fickle tinsel]

first nobody cares that you feel oppressed on a discord server (???) this just sounds like a failed attempt at gaslighting the mod. and second off you are shooting the reserve shell yet saying you understand how to play the tank? That doesn't add up. The tank has great reverse, spaced armor, good gun stats dpm and gun depression. It sounds like you're parking in front of TDs or something if you have trouble with the armor profile because any other tank class should be struggling to pen it

[stone drum]

That's funny because it neither has good dpm or 680 alpha.

[remote sluice]

for some reason that tank got c-stab and now its absolutely insane

[solid sequoia]

Yeah you’re definitely playing it wrong. Bissonte is one of the strongest tier 8 heavies, with an essentially impenetrable turret when hulldown

[lofty delta]

I'm sorry that I opened a discussion; it seems I was mistaken. There are too many people here who understand, and I didn't try to be hostile. I had an opinion based on how I felt. Please forgive me; I don't know how to play. It's my first time playing

[stone drum]

I think your issue may not lie with how powerful the tank is, but rather with how boring the tanks is too play.

[solid sequoia]

You having good stats does not absolve you from not knowing how to play a tank. When properly hulldown, these two small areas on either side of the turret are the only penetrable areas, and prammo is still needed. If you are consistently getting penetrated by tier 7s, you are clearly not playing the tank properly.

[fickle tinsel]

You are absolutely right you were mistaken to open a discussion with no intention of defending your (stupid) points and attempting to deflect to your (admittedly mediocre) stats when pressed for an actual explanation. This is the tank balance channel not the complain that a tank is bad because I cannot play it and then post my blitzstars in a pathetic attempt to justify my unsupported claims channel

[queen geyser]

admittedly medicore ? What are ur stats then ?

[lofty delta]

You are correct; there seems to have been a misunderstanding. I appreciate your feedback, and I want to clarify that my intentions are indeed positive. I value the discussions on tank balance and aim to contribute constructively. If you have any concerns or questions about my points or statistics, please feel free to ask, and I'll be happy to provide a more detailed explanation.

[lone sandal]

so uh, why do you think the bisonte is underpowered
sum it up in like 50 words or so

[fickle tinsel]

what are my stats? what do you consider good at tier 10? Mid 2.5k i consider mediocre and above 3k I consider good which I think is a fairly reasonable opinion

[queen geyser]

I alr knew what u consider medicore, I asked, what, are, ur, stats then, or better question, what is ur ign

[quick lichen]

Yes, give us the tl:dr version lol

[fickle tinsel]

https://www.blitzstars.com/player/com/IronBehemoth

I consider my own stats mediocre rn as I've just returned to the game but it doesn't change the fact that I was above 3k average @t10 last I was active

[lofty delta]

It's an account after he learned to play.

[nimble zodiac]

So a reroll. Use player stats however you want, except using it to support an argument about tank balance :p

[lone sandal]

@lofty delta we genuinely want to understand why you believe that bisonte is underpowered, can you sum up your stance in like 50 words or so

[fickle tinsel]

my 8 or 9 year old account with 16500 battles is a reroll very smart you are 🧠🧠

@queen geyser yes I am calling his stats mediocre in the context of this argument. He seems to think that they are good enough that they alone are enough to prove his point with no further justification.. which isn't the case. Most people in this channel have his stats or better, in other words, they are mediocre here amongst us, and thus not a valid appeal to authority

[queen geyser]

kk that somewhat gives me a better view for you point, I mean those stuff like "good" "bad" "medicore" player does like only say something if you compare it to something, yes to the best players which i also compare myself, im pretty medicore and the game and I would tell that u do and the other guy aswell, basically people who are between 2500-3000 avg

but pls dont keep forgetting that doing your own HP as damage in tier X as average alr boosts u at unicum wn8, I would consider people who do their job, like averaging your own hp as damage as good players, because the average wotb player does far worse

[lofty delta]

@fickle tinsel @nimble zodiac The Firepower 310 big lol It's highly vulnerable mechanically When he gets hit in ammo, his roald arrives in 30-16 seconds.. It's fast and has some maneuverability, but it's still not good enough to stand against tanks of the same tier. Its accuracy is also very disappointing for a TD

[solid sequoia]

Don’t fire the reserve shell, don’t overexpose.

[nimble zodiac]

It’s literally not a tank destroyer LOL

[queen geyser]

yea ofc I dont even take his argument serious, because he is using google translate and his points are not even getting across right, kinda pointless

[fickle tinsel]

1. then run protective kit
2. the dpm is already 7/46 which is great and then you also have a reserve shell which increases the effective dpm even more
3. "not good enough to stand against tanks of the same tier" best in class armor profile, great reverse speed, adequate gun depression which makes the turret nigh invincible?
4. not a td... still upper third in gun handling and penetration is 12/46 so not sure your point

[lofty delta]

People like you who are so arrogant and think they're above everyone else really aren't worth anything. That's why you just sit on the sidelines and blindly agree with the game. Tomorrow they'll say you're nothing, and you'll just say, 'Yes, I'm nothing.' You have no independent opinion.And I'm expressing an opinion; I'm not trying to prove anything. This is just how I feel, and yes, I was wrong about the type, but it doesn't mean the tank is perfect. @nimble zodiac

[nimble zodiac]

Opinion manages to be factually incorrect*

[fickle tinsel]

1. Sorry that you feel me citing statistics which directly prove you wrong is arrogance
2. You are trying to prove a point, which you failed to do. Now you're throwing a temper tantrum.

[lofty delta]

Talking to people like you is like talking to a wall. Even the wall is softer than you. Still, it's not enough to compete with tanks at his level, and here he comes with his show of force and a mechanics that breaks down with every shot he takes. Nevertheless, this is not a serious discussion; don't take my words to heart. I use a translator because I speak Hebrew, and I am Israeli, and it's difficult to express everything accurately

[nimble zodiac]

The tank performs well, and does not need any improvements. That is all.

[queen geyser]

Its very good yea

[stone drum]

The gun handling is definitely pretty mid. Personally, my only complaint for bisonte is that I wish it had better he shells.

[fickle tinsel]

the soft handling stats like on the move dispersion are definitely not great

[remote sluice]

the bisonte has insane dpm for a tier 8 heavy if u only fire the second shell, it also has a reserve shell to clear enemies quickly. high dpm plus an extra shell to clear enemies, plus an insane turret and decent speed, that thing is absolutely insane. fr if the italian heavies are like this im gonna grind them 100%.

wg pls dont make rinoceronte bad 🙏

[stone drum]

It has pretty average dpm, just abit below 2.3k
It's just a pretty boring, generic heavy

[slender latch]

They could also maybe give it gear oil and tungsten to make more "diversed". But seriously VK 90 is the last tank they'd want to buff the armor on. Maus is still inferior to it even in sidescraping or brawling.

[stone drum]

Maus already has a massive hp advantage over it, its fine.

I don't get what it is with people being hellbent on maus being frontally invulnerable.

[remote sluice]

sounds great but if anything needs tungsten or gear oil more it’s the maus. the vk has insane armor already and c-stab to reliably hit shots so i think that’s all it needs

[fickle tinsel]

i wish it'd be near invulnerable in a sidescrape, even if it meant trading hp for cheek armor. Being the most "heavily armored tank" seems a bit silly if the entire turret cheeks are gray and guaranteed pens. it should get poor gun handling but be able to sidescrape at close range and put in shots with relative safety IMO but pay for it if you try taking shots at any distance

if wargaming wanted to take things further they could experiment with buffing its pen but then nerfing its gun dep meaning it'd have a crippling weakness to being unable to shoot any medium/low heavies hugging its side

[drowsy plaza]

Considering a bunch of tier 8 meds aren’t even at 2k, that’s a ridiculous statement.

[stone drum]

Maus isn't supposed to be impenetrable, it's supposed to be an immovable wall.

@drowsy plaza its simply an unfortunate reality, of all the tier 8 heavies that have a 310 alpha gun, only Somua dips below 2k dpm. The vast majority sport 2.2k or more dpm.

[supple scroll]

Uhm, looks like the balancing of mle. 54 standard shell type is not same with description in the portal. I know it doesn't effect so much and I might be too late to know this... I hope they change it back to AP shell again for shell normalization buff

[fickle tinsel]

It would be nigh impenetrable from the front, similar to the vk. It's hardly immovable as is because any time you show your cheeks to take a shot anyone and everyone will butter you

[slender latch]

Yeah it has a huge HP that can be farmed due to its armor and is seen as a nusance than an actual threat. E100 already has almost the same HP as the Maus with better frontal and turret armor than the Maus with MT traverse speeds.

[cunning socket]

Did I hear Rinoceronte??

[remote sluice]

rinoceronte mentioned

[stone drum]

If your running enhanced armour, unless they are a TD, they are forced to fire prammo to penetrate maus' cheeks. If they are firing Prammo, they will peirce maus cheeks, but VK will find it fairs little better against prammo.

[fickle tinsel]

I think that sweet spot would be for heavy calibrated to struggle unless it's perfectly straight on

[twin egret]

He sounds a lot like someone who got muted earlier 3 days ago don't you think?

[lofty delta]

I sat and thought, and I reached an intriguing conclusion. In my opinion, there are several groups of players who are not interested in improving a specific tank type because they prefer to play with a different tank type. I understand, but it's not objective because they have a preference for one type. So, I understand that in this context, I may not be able to contribute, and I'm refraining from initiating discussions. I hope that this game will continue to grow. At the same time, I see people leaving, and I love playing this game. However, it's a competitive game with tournaments, which means you need to be objective about the topics and not dismiss them. So, I genuinely hope I managed to contribute without causing any harm.

[mystic trout]

bro why does tungsten on the is7 roll so low

[quick lichen]

This person joined yesterday and has only chat here. Are you calling it sus?😂

[quick lichen]

I’m intrigued that you bring up points, others disagree and use stats, then you call them arrogant and wonder why the discussions are not productive

[lost crane]

@lofty delta On tier 8, heavys are already the meta, huge dpm, high hp, and not too slow. And the bisonte isn’t an exception. Unfortunately for you, my favorite type of tank are the heavys. And we could even say the opposite, there are quite a few people who buy a premium tank, who are disappointed because it is not op or because they do not know how to play it (and as long as you talk about 30s of reload means you haven't understood the meaning of RESERVES shells) and are complaining, even though the tank is far from being bad. If you want really bad tanks, try the fcm 50t, the t44 100, or the t44 with a 122 gun, the sta 1, the su 101… All these tanks are much worse than the bisonte, they deserve much more a buff than a tank which is certainly rather boring and not exceptional, but which works quite well.

@stone drum 22s for 620 dmg is really bad 🤡

[stone drum]

I hear there is a mirror shortage in isreal... lol.

The Irony is so thick you could cut it with a knife.
I mean I could understand calling bisonte boring, but outright bad is ridiculous.

[fickle tinsel]

I will do better to curb my arrogance by attempting to flex stats instead of citing actual data 🙏

[lofty delta]

The fact that you don't understand me says it all. As for all these tanks you claim are really bad, I own them all, and each one is much better than you think. Even all the streamers say the same about them. In 2023, it's not just about having a tank; it's about how it performs. Like I said, because most players prefer light tanks, the discussion is objective and not relevant. So, thinking that someone is a genius for saying a tank is perfect just shows how little they played it. And it's not about the money; I've never saved a cent, and right now, I have every possible tank in my collection.

[fickle tinsel]

ah yes the bisonte is bad but the t44 with the 122 is good 🤡

[cunning socket]

Cuz big boom 🤯

[lost crane]

Use stat please, Bisonte has 52,35% average in blitzstar, above average for heavy, and in the first 1/3 for all t8.

@cunning socket then use T 34 2, chimera, stg, t 34 3, wz122TM…

@stone drum The Bisonte, according to ADM-ADM

[twin egret]

Yep, seems like mute dodging

[stone drum]

What?

620 alpha for 22s being bad? Which it is??

Ohhhhhhh, I understand, thx.

[unique scaffold]

What is going on

This chat blew up what.

My sorry brain finally figured out the decimal percentages in the chests.

[void siren]

Bisonte man doesn’t accept their tank is fine

They want BUFFS!!!!

[marsh belfry]

reminds me of the wz122tm guy

[queen geyser]

Tru

[fickle shoal]

That was a fun show

[winter dagger]

Pls buff smasher🗿

[unique scaffold]

[subtle socket]

It desperately needs one tbh

[void siren]

kv-2 buff and smasher buff simultaneously!

[rapid basin]

Don't forget annihilater🗿

[winged barn]

You forgot the "again"

[lethal fox]

Balance suggestion: Give Vk 100 a 170 mm derp gun 🧌

[peak fractal]

Hafen have 4.7 reload but less than 200 dmg
Nemeless have not good armour but HT
Lapus have 13 reload but less than 450 dmg

[bleak sail]

Cs 44 actually is good tbh

[cunning socket]

Just drive the Leo instead

[fringe quest]

[forest timber]

Agreed

[thorn tartan]

IS-4 NEEDS ARMOR BACK

just make it how it was before the 10.3 update bro pls my one T10 got ruined 😦

[lone sandal]

NO!

[wicked quest]

You are not doing this again.

[clear shuttle]

bro is back from the dead with another giga brain conversation about the 122tm

[lost crane]

Yes, but put it at tier 10

[twin egret]

Dude just cope with it, WG is not gonna touch the tank any time soon nor listen to your pleas to make it "similar to its WoT PC counterpart"

[clear shuttle]

buffing the 122tm is one of the least important buffs i can think of rn

[twin egret]

You haven't even listed a buff yet? Again it's gonna fall on deaf ears as WG doesn't plan to touch it any time soon lol

Go back to playing the WZ-122 WoT PC if the tank is too 'unsuitable' for you on Blitz atm.

[wicked quest]

He’s trolling he won’t stop because y’all keep replying and feeding him

[twin egret]

Can you carefully list out your proposed changes please, it's a bit tacky for me to read everything out

[solid sequoia]

Might as well give it heavy HP at that point and nerf mobility instead of buffing it

[uneven turtle]

We don’t need chimera 2.0 in my opinion

@spring leaf well ur tryna turn it into one

[carmine scaffold]

yuh

[twin egret]

I don't know, could you clarify more on why for all those points please

[wicked quest]

Stop

[uneven turtle]

A game doesn’t deserve complete realism
(Also I don’t care if u bring up the ‘historically accurate’ point cus that’s overused)

And i said (complete realism)

Ye he clowning rn @clear shuttle

Tell me this cobalt. A game design doesn’t need complete realism. Keeps it fun yknow. In this case the realism it’s not followed so t8 feels more fun yknow?

[clear shuttle]

because tanks dont need to be fake to be in an unrealistic game? 🤡

[uneven turtle]

So you’re telling me you want chimera 2.0 which was a disaster already nice nice

I already told u, right now Wz ain’t a chimera but if we implemented your changes it would become one

Im talking about the changes not the current state of the tank

Chimera = fast heavy with high alpha on MT side
Your WZ with the changes = fast heavy with high alpha on MT side

@clear shuttle mind helping me with this kid that wants the only tank he uses to be broken?

It isn’t you just suck at 10 strategies since u keep playing t8

Yeah cus you keep playing wz. Honestly im gonna bring up a realistic point that most people would understand. When u play a certain tank a lot, u start to see the flaws. Now some people, they understand why it has flaws but there are those kids that want to be the best of the rest, so they beg and beg and beg for the devs to buff it just so the tank they play can cover for their trash gameplay. @spring leaf

Also broken means sitting on a ridge with a badger

[fickle shoal]

oh god is wz guy back

[uneven turtle]

They aren’t required because if u want a buff, best I can say is increase hull traverse and that’s it. Take it or leave it

We don’t need a bunch of crack heads thinking mino is op when it’s decently strong and NOT OP

You forgot that a vk 72.01 can out traverse mino(a super heavy btw)

And you forgot that tracking to get behind tds exist

And you forgot that there are things called strategies

And you forgot that you don’t use them cus u are a crack head

Oh yeah you forgot gold ammo

And tds don’t struggle to pen mino AT ALL

[fickle shoal]

it's the mino, it's built to be a brick frontally

[uneven turtle]

I forgot to mention since mts can trash a mino we will focus on hts and tds.

Most hts have an average gold pen of 335 or above so that’s the lower plate gone. Now for the real deal, High calibers ht or tds their prammo surpasses 370 which is moooore than enough. But then again you forgot that gold exists

Oh yeah vk 90 01. 289 calibrated shell on its standard ammo I also can’t forgot pen boost crew skill so 297. Guess what, lower plate gone again :0

Also it’s based on actual battle experiences I used a mino it’s painfully fun so I know

I think you should check the badger in my opinion

Mts have twice the minos accel, traverse, reload, and mino is HEable from the back and out dpm mino like HELL even with gold

Might I add it takes mts 30-35 seconds to kill a mino while a mino takes 40-45

45 does not equal 360

35 degrees compared to all that mobility, even a ht being able to out traverse nowadays… yeah sure

Rotation. Not some. Even super heavies

But anyways my actual point I’ve inferred is you can’t tell broken for balanced to weak

C H E C K T H E B A D G E R A R M O R

So u may have played against people like you that don’t use gold but news flash; those are people like you

Mino has 4 big weak spots. Lower plate, under its gun, above its gun, it’s cupola

[violet island]

The real Problem is the ungodly amount of copium you consume

[uneven turtle]

Minos effective thickness on flat ground 310-270 mm hulldown 350-380

Badger sure flat ground no one can fail to pen but hulldown it’s effective is 380-420. Also might I add badger has way better dpm and traverse

So is your gun accuracy

My bad wrong info; badger has 440-540mm effective on hulldown. Anyway

Even the ‘weak parts’ are as strong as minos hulldown armor

Maybe if you were 55% I’d consider your opinion

Of course you can’t since ur 49% so lemme say it for u

57.93%

@forest ridge dang nice guesss

Aww man I could have been 65% if I had better teams

6-7 years ago with one account I left behind cus I needed a fresh start. One with 16 K battles 48% new acc with 4.3k battles

[forest ridge]

does the guy think mino is op and better than badger

[uneven turtle]

To show u I don’t keep spamming low tiers

Badger has better traverse, better alpha, better armor, better p/w while mino only has alpha, and a turret that can do 45 degrees

I look forward to your 14k battles with…49%

Lemme see it I just wanna see your funny stats

You can DM if you’re ashamed

[bronze shadow]

Ko

[uneven turtle]

Didn’t know your average was that low dang.. top damage?? Just got that today.. most played… T8??

Oh right and u waste 20mill + creds cus u pay aight aight

Oh and I have better M ratio than you?? Ahhh dang sry man

Oh man so your damage is based on how well your team does? Oof sucks to be u.

86 battles only 16 tanks with M? Guess you can’t work tanks well Oof

I know right??? Imagine having a 4K battles perform better than you. Sorry to steal your spotlight.

I swear I have this stereotype on NA server people. The good ones are the perfect and supportive players while the trash are filled with people that thinks their better

[forest ridge]

What does Armour fails mean???

I should redirect you to the newbies line to grind, hopefully this account you're playing isn't a reroll one

[uneven turtle]

The only thing you have better than me is battles on I feel you

4k:14k battles
6.9k:5.2k top damage( which I just got today)
1.8k:1.2k average damage
800 :600 exp
Sooo all u have is battles and experience on how bad you are… aight I got your point. Also if your ‘armor fails’ maybe relocate?

The only thing you’ll never learn is, if you aren’t playing t9 or 10 mainly, you’re not fully experienced

See you know, play tier ten your damage will go up so why u stuck with your wz

@lethal fox he pulled out the ‘stats’ argument

It already doesn’t suck it’s slightly above average

What a numbnut.. to explain @severe basin point he means battles mean nothing if your stats don’t match up to the average 14k player battle experience.
You play like a 3k battles with 50% wr

[lethal fox]

Sheesh what the heck's happening here

Also heh true, also Tier 10 is actually more skillbased than tier 8. Tier 8 is literally heavy dominated, and much easier to 2 tap opponents in Tier 8, than in Tier 10.

[bronze shadow]

Ko

[severe basin]

He has literally every stat above yours expect battles lmao
Also 14k with that your stats should be above the guys with 4k but they are not

[uneven turtle]

I honestly respect the noobs that try out t10 even if they fail

What I don’t respect are noobs that buy straight to t10

Also high alpha mts are one of the more fun tanks to play .-.

@severe basin
@lethal fox
@spring leaf
@forest ridge
Rather contradictory don’t you think

[forest ridge]

Im confused on why you would go hulldown a lot using a tank that doesnt have it as its strengths

what tank are you playing if I may ask...

The only time I go hulldown in my LTs is when I go spot or when I know the time is right, I'm wondering if you would be the guy to trade and overextend on a hulldown position using a poorly armored tank

[lethal fox]

I respect people who actually learn from their mistakes and actually try to improve, even if they get slightly toxic about it, as long as they know what they did wrong and capitalize on what they know is right.

People who don't or refuse to learn at all though... yeah I have zero respect for those people.

Tier 8's literally heavy tank heaven lmao, its so much easier to play than tier 10

[severe basin]

Tier 8 is easier to play bruh its full of people that are just moving punchbags waiting to be farmed
@lethal fox agreed ALOT easier than t10
Also @spring leaf yes you might get less dmg in tier 8 but alot more wins and your wr is less than 50...

[uneven turtle]

“Never underestimate people, only underestimate 4k battle RevenantElite0185”

[lone sandal]

tier 8 is completely different from tier 10 in almost every way

[severe basin]

Yes t9 is basically the same as tier 10 correct but not 8
Tier 8 is just for grinding credits at this point nothing else
@spring leaf guns yes but with bigger reload alot less health and everything else

[lost crane]

So, give at WZ122 TM t9 stat and let it at tier 8 ???? If you don’t know how to play a tank, that doesn’t mean that the the tank is bad.

[marsh belfry]

@spring leaf hey saw you came back, here take another dose of this

[uneven turtle]

Dang really famous huh that cobalt guy

Hts goes from being 3 shot in t8 to 5 shot in t10 talking with 640 alpha btw

I’m simpletons words for Cobalt the moon himself, the hp to damage ratio widens

Meaning it’s harder to kill

Meaning you need more skill

Correct. Considering your stats are god awful

[severe basin]

Also mediums and lights in tier 10 are so different than any tier 8
Battles mean nothing if your other stats are far behind

Wz 121 for example i was comparing tier 8 mediums lights to tier 10 never did i say anything about 122 tm

[lone sandal]

we've successfully proven to you 3 times that 122tm is fine and doesn't need a buff
so I'm not sure why you're still being so ardent

[uneven turtle]

I think the fact you ed been proved wrong 3 times is evident enough-4 times now

@lost crane makes a valid point, 203 is decent for its tier, u can pen quite a lot of lower glacis

And as I’ve said, realism is not 100% a factor in these games @spring leaf

You can…

[lost crane]

if you can't deal with 203mm pen at tier 8, you don't have enough skill

@spring leaf if i can deal with 175mm pen in T34 -2, why can't you with more than 200mm ? And you just forget the 270mm premium, at the top of prem pen for mt in t8

[lone sandal]

wdym no proof? this is ur 3rd or 4th time talking about the 122tm and every single time you mention it your arguments get disproven and dismantled

[uneven turtle]

Unless you’re running rammer then u can pen

Oh wait he is running rammer on his WZ

@bold dagger

Aight let’s stop this non balance argument now that it’s over

[bold dagger]

@spring leaf hey

you shouldn't have made a new account. goodbye

[gleaming apex]

thermonucleicacid was banned.

[ancient rampart]

Lmao that dude just can’t stop with his WZ

[severe basin]

LMAO

[bold dagger]

guys, it was brought to my attention that this user was previously a troll back in 2021 and i had already permanently banned him for that

for some reason, this channel seems to bring the best and worst out of people

[shy wren]

Honestly, 175mm, although on the extremely low side of pen is workable enough at tier VIII against mediums, if you know what you're doing. Most tier IX mediums also have pretty poor armor, so 175mm should still work well enough.

For a heavy medium, the Wz's 203mm pen gun should suffice well enough.

[lost crane]

Otherwise, what do you think about reducing the size of the chieftain/T95 cupola, or even removing it ?

@shy wren yes, you need to know where are the weakpoint, and at least, it have 250 mm premium heat, not too much, but workable.

[uneven turtle]

To be fair some of us are pretty unhappy with the balances so we keep on thinking of good changes then people like cobalt come up and try to undo all of it

So I guess I have a chaotic good in me

250 and above pen is like average td pen in t10 if u scale it up

@severe basin on point. Last time mts could easily pen it frontally now it’s harder

[severe basin]

So thoughts on the new maus?
Only thing am sad about it is the upper plate so annoying when tds pen it

[ancient rampart]

I haven’t noticed any major difference

It’s still a Maus

[shy wren]

Running double sandbag and armor equipment makes it quite resilient. DPM and gun handling buffs allow it to snapshot more effectively. Buffing the armor behind the tracks helps alleviate one of the Maus' primary weaknesses. The turret cheeks are still a notable weakpoint with prammo, but when played correctly, you should be able to do quite well in it.

@uneven turtle terrain resistances would be nice, but if they overbuff it, the Maus may be too good at wiggling and jiggling

[uneven turtle]

Imo maus should have more terrain resistance maybe +7 to +9 from its current resis

[remote sluice]

man what’s up w this channel for the past day or two? 💀

whats up w ppl wanting buffs to the 122tm and bisonte? they’re fine as they are rn. why not buffing stuff like the pershing or indien pz or smth? 💀

@lost crane yea that thing needs some armor on the cupola, it’s like the old e4 rn

@ember idol oh yea i forgot 💀 havent even tried that after it got buffed so i forgor. sta-1 was alright when i played it, any buffs for it is welcome tho.

[lost crane]

What do you think of reducing the size or removing the chieftain/T95 cupola, it's so bad, it need a buff ?
And indien pz, is really strong now, 2,8k dpm for 240 alpha is really good
@ember idol yes, sta-1 need something, more turret armor and/or more dpm and/or more mobility. Now, it have bad/average stat in each area.

[ember idol]

Indien PZ already got its much needed buff

The STA-1 is in a much needed state of intervention now

[uneven turtle]

Give STA a decent Hull, Troll turret and keep it as it is. Mid mobility, okay gun, finally decent armor. Rn it bounces absolute nothing. Now for why it’s cus I’ve always felt like the Japanese mt should have had more armor it shouldn’t be only one tank of the line feels great. But hey, tough roads leads to a great destination

@ember idol not a bad idea but the reload should remain as it is if u want 240 alpha. It’s gonna be a decent tank if u get all these buffs

@wispy leaf is3 is great as it is rn. Hulldown it feels comfortable as hell

[remote sluice]

sta-1 and type 61 should have better turrets to match the playstyle of the stb-1 tbh

[ember idol]

Hopefully they also give it a better fire rate and 240 alpha

[wispy leaf]

make IS3 better , hull armor n gun stability / more dpm , worse speed.

[lost crane]

If you want to change is3 remove some hull armour, and increase mobility. We already have enough slow and armoured IS like (252U, is6, T2020 …)

@ember idol with that, sta 1 will be a better indien pz, not a bad idea but indien pz will be useless.

@ember idol Imo, it need a strong turret armour, some decent hull, and keep its low dpm and mobility to be like a t8 stb 1 and maybe a premium AP with 205 dmg and 260mm pen

[ember idol]

Tbf the buffs to the Indien Pz was WG's attempt to attract players to go down the medium line for the Leopard than the more popular and fun light line

Unlike the STA-1 which is a must-go if you want to get the STB-1 if you aren't loaded with free exp

[remote sluice]

to make it a t8 stb the premium ap needs to be 210, while normal ap remains at 225. and like u said, it needs a strong turret and a more decent upper plate.

type 61 could also get more turret armor and upf

[winter dagger]

I think the stb issue here is that pen doesn't solve the main issue of the is3 if it can't use the pen half the time, cause you gon get penned back, I'd recommend the changes to make it similar to the tier nine Version, make the hull more weak, but even more mobility + a more accurate gun

[slender latch]

Cobalt dude was like trolling in the channel since he joined. Surprised it took this long for them to notice people here must have room temp iq lol.

[fickle tinsel]

The e100 is so good after the buff its crazy. I splashed the roof of a t22 facehugging me for over 400 he damage to kill him

[lethal fox]

Eyy hello their fellow E100 enjoyer, I agree too its not a big buff but slapping someone for 700 hp much more regularly is satisfying AF

Speaking of which, guys, what are your opinions on the German HT changes?

[remote sluice]

e100 i absolutely love that thing now its absolutely insane

vk 72 is rlly mobile now and thats great. the gun loads way faster and still punches hard, and it still has tungsten. im rlly enjoying it

vk 90 is kinda busted. i can just pull out of the side scrape, snap ppl for 460 alpha and go back without taking any damage.

maus is eh, it loads faster but tbh i still think its not as good as e100

everything except maus became noticeably better. maus became slightly better imo

also after playing the vk 90, i think the 215b would benefit a lot from getting 10 degrees of depression on the side. theres rlly no reason to not give it that tbh

[stone drum]

Dont ruin IS-3s perfect mobility profile.

[lone sandal]

give 215b combat stabilization 😈

[fickle tinsel]

it feels like the traverse got buffed as well which makes it extremely difficult to dig out

[lethal fox]

Lmao I am grinding for the Maus recently for basically getting an assault superheavy, but after seeing the Vk72's new gameplay... Im starting to question my choice, but Maus is playable so IG its ok

@fickle tinsel Hmmm interesting didn't really notice it, but I'll try playing the E100 more to check it out.

[fickle tinsel]

looks like traverse wasn't in the notes so maybe it's just more mobile than i remember. the 20 reverse is great though. I should grind for the vk next.

[clear shuttle]

vk 72 got improved suspension which explains why its so mobile now

[lethal fox]

Needed given the Vk72 has been painfully mid since its release, now it can actually do something and still be enjoyable rather than being a reskinned E100 with worse sides.

[lone sandal]

it was already strong before this buff, 2.9k hp 640 alpha + tungsten to out trade every single tank in the game

[clear shuttle]

^

[winter dagger]

Vk90 is Chad maus

[humble depot]

TBF, the Indien’s actually in a good spot rn.

[umbral shard]

I don't see a lot of 140s but the tank is actually crazy good now people should actually give it another chance

[stone drum]

It is, but alot of players cant effectively utilize it.

[remote sluice]

lmaoooo i mean i cant say no to that :)))

[umbral shard]

I guess people don't really know how to utilize soviet gun dep? I think that's the factor that filters out people from playing 140
the massive dpm boost also catches people offguard and you can now basically dpm battle everything except a leo

[clear shuttle]

they dont know how to utilize a 3.8k dpm lightly armoured medium with 6 degrees of gun dep

[umbral shard]

yeah this is even harder to play than leo considering at least the leo has gun dep to work with (and a lot more mobility)

[lone sandal]

the leo is also bigger, has worse camo and isn't HE proof
so one's not really harder to play than the other tbh

[winter dagger]

Extremely high skill ceiling, because all it has is that gun

[clear shuttle]

ye

[solid sequoia]

It has more than just the gun

[winter dagger]

Oh yes mobility, totally gonna use that to do nothing when no gun depression 😶

[solid sequoia]

Ah yes, using mobility to get to spotting positions faster than anything else and get off early shots, and then to open up crossfire opportunities is worthless, you’re right, mobility isn’t a strength

[violet island]

isn‘t 140 in legit everything worse than a leo though
outside of camo

[solid sequoia]

The smaller profile + better HE resistance makes it easier to be more aggressive and use more dpm in the 140

[winter dagger]

Not when the meta is to camp and hold the whole map in a stalemate because everything pens you and you don't have LT camo. Even going around to put people in cross fires doesn't work the same because other tanks do that job better (BC can dump 1k+ while out spotting you). Mobility is useless if it can't be used correctly with a good amount of flexibility. Only reason leo is good is speed, flexibility, and the insane gun. Obj 140 gun is average pen wise, third best dpm, (kpz has better dpm). I see the 140 as more useless because mobility doesn't help if you have no alpha and need to expose yourself more. Also only good thing? Gun. Mobility doesn't work correctly on 140

[queen geyser]

I feel like mobility is cool and all of that but u cant rly use that because many early postions require gun depression, ofc if u can go full yolo with double 140 toon thats pretty funny but that isnt rly a point for the tank

I feel like its fun to play, but I would play Leo1 over it anytime

@solid sequoia Do u refer to random battles or touch tournies ? When u talk about "meta"

[solid sequoia]

The meta is dpm rushes, not camping lmao. The 140 is able to be more aggressive than both the BatChat and Leo 1 while still having the same crossfire capability, if not more due to better Permatrakcing ability. Also, 6 degrees is more than enough as long as you can position properly

@queen geyser I’m referring to both. Fast, high dpm absolutely rules now

[mystic gorge]

The gun depression argument is just a lazy way of saying that u refuse to create artificial gun depression. 140 is one of the best meds rn easily

[fickle tinsel]

I would've gotten the kpz if i knew they'd give it tungsten. I got the 907 from a crate and it is completely obsolete LOL

[stone drum]

Most players just straight up dont even know what that is.

[umbral shard]

good point, although you're supposed to avoid getting hit in the first place imo
and plus a good leo player wouldn't just peek a td

[lone sandal]

td? ermm i never mentioned td, and of course you would never poke a td in any med

[fickle tinsel]

there are plenty of situations where you cannot create artificial gun depression or where the spot where you can create artificial gun depression is inferior to a location that could could take with better gun depression

[mystic gorge]

Gun depression for a med with that much mobility should be an after thought. It really isn’t that hard. If u can’t make 3800 dpm, the best gun handling in the game, and the best power to weight med in the game work: that’s on u

[umbral shard]

I was just referring to general gameplay, a sensible player wouldn't just poke if a td got their gun at you
also when playing it's pretty normal for you to start calculating where you think tds will be at

[lone sandal]

that is true, td positioning is very very predictable
except 113gft and e4

[umbral shard]

yeah fair enough, you do reposition very often in leo so you don't really need to think gun dep half the time
it's one of those tanks where the difference between a skilled and average player is most visible lol

[winter dagger]

Then there's the tds staring right at you, and the e100 waiting for You. Permatracking is not an issue if you aren't running tungsten Adrenaline. Also try holding a small hill with 6 deg of gun depression, doesn't work because you don't have turret armor anyways

[solid sequoia]

If you’re going to a place where TDs are watching, it doesn’t matter wether you’re in the 140 or Leo 1 lmao, you’re getting shot. And the 140 doesn’t have to use consumables to permatrack. Also, why are you trying to hold against anything in a tank without armor? Just reloacate Lmao. Leo 1 has the same issue.

[umbral shard]

yea the 140 has enough mobility to run away somewhat, if you can't run away in time then that's you own fault for not reading the game right tbh

[winter dagger]

Stb???? Better than it in 100 ways, fv4202 with normal gun??? Still better, leo, e50m, t62, kpz, obj 907, wz 121, 121b, m60/m48, are just the few that are outright better than the obj 140. Either it has more dpm/mobility, or it has actual armor. I don't get how the 140 is the best when it's outclassed by basically every other tank when considering its role on the battlefield. And the 140 trying to do the job of a LT? BC is the best option for that. You can't play aggressive in the 140 because of no gun depression, artificial or not, and no turret armor. I'd rather play a 121b and have a better time because that has turret armor. Putting people into cross fires don't work well because it's a camping meta where your team doesn't want to move or they get nuked, or they don't even help you on the flank. Sure maybe it's a dpm rush meta whatever, but it's kinda dumb to do that when tds can nuke you with the amount of front line tds wg wants

[lone sandal]

out of all that, only the stb one is correct 💀

and t62a

[solid sequoia]

140 has the highest effective p/w in tier 10, Leo 1 is the only tank with more dpm and a higher top speed, 140 has higher dpm than every other tank listed, so your point that all of the tanks you listed has either “more dpm/mobility” doesn’t really hold up. And if you play for armor, then you lose out of dpm and mobility that makes the 140 so dangerous. It’s a trade off, but saying the 140 is bad is simply a lack of skill.

[umbral shard]

half of those are outright wrong lol
in its' current state it's really funny you think 121 and m60 even stands a chance, and you can definitely play aggressive in 140 since you have more dpm than everything except leo
also tds can't nuke you if you don't go into their line of fire int he first place, td camping positions are super predictable and a rule of thumb is to assume there's a td there before there's evidence to prove otherwise

[nimble zodiac]

Yes, let me engage this frontline TD in a nimble medium tank

[mystic gorge]

”can’t play aggressive”

[queen geyser]

I mean 140:

Pros: High dpm, very good gun, high speed, small armor Profile
Cons: worst gun Depression, worst alpha, no armor, 290 Premium pen

Leo1:
Pros: high dpm, high speed, good gun (also has reticle)
Cons: No armor and He able

Idk but for me Leo1 has alpha, more gundepression, better pen and reticle, and u trade for being less heable and a bit mobility and camo, and a bit smaller Profile

Dosnt seem worth for me in randoms because dosnt matter how much gundepression u can build up using terrain leo has +2

[winter dagger]

Wz121 is a upgraded 140 with a gun that hits for 460 with tungsten on a 7-8 sec reload. Leo is just the better version of 140 (camo is not better I know), 121b has a camo mechanic and better gun with alpha and pen, the American meds can hulldown far better than the 140 while being just as aggressive, don't tell me e50m isn't better, 140s dream to pen it's turret if it runs EA, fv4202 has an alright turret, basically a troll version of 140 turret, while having a good gun and can out trade with HESH if you're running that gun. And kpz is stupidly good, play it and see for yourself.
@solid sequoia And what about that p/w you said if you can't use it on a tank that doesn't work right with it? I'd rather use a more comfortable tank like a kpz that has better dpm and more armor... Gun depression is a factor, but being able to out trade with something like a wz121 makes it better than a 140 in that scenario. If you're brawling, then yes, only two tanks can out dpm it, if you aren't, then it's not good. Td argument is when you want the team to advance on a position but can't because tds are just holding the lines, and as a 140, you're gonna either spot them, or go around and try to engage in the heavies. Flanking will work only if you put them in a effective cross fire, given the enemy isn't smart enough to see you on the flank.
@umbral shard No most are right considering the necessary role they fulfill, not just stats, and how they function against common lineup of tanks, the 140 is a "sacrifice everything to do what something else already does". And I have seen many TDs be unpredictable if given they have a brain. If I had to I'd play the leo all day, and 121 beats 140 in the scenario of peeking effectively. M60 does it by holding better than a 140, and can easily force a 140 out of its position if the 140 lacks support. You can only play aggro in a tank for so much before having to play passively.
@mystic gorge Nice platoon, now do it solo

[solid sequoia]

Just because a tank is more comfortable doesn’t mean it’s better. 140 has the ability to force dpm brawls, meaning there is no “if you’re in a brawl”, it’s when you decide to initiate the brawl. And if you can’t flank effectively, just say so? It’s really not that hard to flank with the 140, especially with its mobility and camo

[lone sandal]

121 is not an upgraded version of 140
leo 1 is not "just better" we've already gone over this and proven this
121b does not have a better gun
m60 is irrelevant
why are you comparing the hulldown capabilities of patton and 140
e50m is better I'll admit that
4202 is hot garbage dog water so no
kpz50t kinda relies on tungsten + adrenaline

[umbral shard]

I never said anything about any of those tanks being bad idk where you're getting this from
also sorry to say this but if you're treating 140 like a bad tank then you my friend have skill issue
here's my battles today

[nimble zodiac]

If you bring up busted tanks like STB-1 to downplay Obj. 140, you've lost the argument

[mystic gorge]

Also 140 claps Stb in brawls all day. Wouldn’t really say Stb is just flat out better

Also 121 an upgraded version of the 140? Are u baiting me at this point? Worst take I’ve ever heard lol

[winter dagger]

Hence I said stb one time, and I mainly focused the point on other tanks. I wanted to show how many other tanks do the points of the 140 better, not that the 140 can't do them, the 140 tries to specialize, but fails when other's nail that task
@mystic gorge try to brawl a stb when it's behind cover, you'll lose 700 hp before you can even start to effectively melt It. And I meant upgraded as in gun and armor. Mobility is just there

[queen geyser]

121 just handicaps u because of the gunhandling, for better players 140 is miles better if u can work around the less armor

[fickle tinsel]

Stb isn't a brawler.. might as well play t62 if you want that playstyle. Not really worth mentioning that if we're assuming everyone's playing the respective tanks properly

[mystic gorge]

Going off of this: these players did not “decide” when to engage us. It was on our terms. That’s the beauty of this tank rn. Similar to the Leopard, u just find isolated targets and go to town on them. Difference is the 140

[lone sandal]

nothing you mentioned can do the job of the 140 better because they don't do the job of a 140

[umbral shard]

121 and 121b is outclassed by most other meds at the current state tbh
also you are dumb if you decide to trade shots in a 140, use the dpm not the alpha

[stone drum]

M60 is still good, lol.

[winter dagger]

I'm gonna laugh while driving my leo 1
@solid sequoia yeah I'm gonna laugh when I'm smart enough not to take HE shells, just don't get HE'd by slightly angling, if it's a high caliber gun, just try and wiggle. You take damage the same, you don't get nuked as hard. I play my leo very often and rarely I get HE'd Anyways. And I got an 8k dmg game playing more aggressively than you can comprehend

[solid sequoia]

I’m gonna laugh when you take HE and can’t make aggressive plays like the 140

[queen geyser]

I mean in my opinion the Leo1 is better then 140 for randoms

[lone sandal]

I'm gonna laugh knowing you're driving a slightly worse tank
jus a tad tad bit worse

[queen geyser]

+2 gundepression, 60 alpha + more dpm, yup slightly worse but hey ur smaller ig and dont get hed in the hull thats something
140 has 300 alpha right, ye i think so

@mystic gorge bro leo1 is like 0.03 more accurate and has reticle cali, so idk where 140 has advantage there

[stone drum]

They don't even fulfull the same role though...

[mystic gorge]

140 is just a much better brawler. Soviet med profile makes sure of that. Leo 1, although the better farmer by a bit, suffers from the sheer size of the tank. And does not move around nearly as nimble as the 140. And also the 140 gun has better handling than the Leo so if ur looking for accuracy, drive 140

[winter dagger]

Oh let me play a tank with the best accuracy, mobility, and med gun, and cry because I'm not driving an obj 140. Getting HE is not enough of a problem to make it worse. Camo is whatever, can work around that, and the large profile? Just work around that? The leo is the best lightly armored med, no questions, it even has more pen than the sad 290 mm of heat the 140 has
@mystic gorge 0.244 dispersion on leo not including RETI CALI. The 140 gun can be troll, the leo gun is a laser beam

[umbral shard]

yep I agree with this, 140 is basically a leo suited for brawling instead of taking potshots of distracted tanks
tldr; different playstyles and roles to fill, don't compare them like they're the same

[wicked quest]

The gun depression removal is starting to show tbh leopard is so tall if your on a slight incline and have to aim for tracks the gun sometimes doesn’t reach it no more

[solid sequoia]

No gun depression? Just work around that? Less alpha? Better reload makes trading 2 for 1 easier.

[unique scaffold]

Omg I have so much to learn.

[lone sandal]

stop bringing up retcal it's literally irrelevant and stop downplaying the advantages of 140

[queen geyser]

Huh? Kekw nice argument ? Idk what that was I feel like 2 gundepression and 60 alpha is still standing

[winter dagger]

Very small advantages, considering how the leo is basically better, taking in every scenario you could form, the leo will out preform. RETI cali is what makes you hit clutch shots, so yeah, try and hit the weak spot of a tank in the 140 RELIABLY.
@umbral shard
Yes they are very, but just from the statistical standpoint, the leo is blatantly better, and from the realistic standpoint, the leo does the similar role just that bit better

[stone drum]

just because a tank isnt built for dwarves doesn't mean its tall.

@wicked quest m60:

[umbral shard]

leo and 140 are very different in playstyles so it's really wrong to be comparing the two honestly

[wicked quest]

It is the tallest med though

[lone sandal]

if you can't hit shots on 140 reliably then you've developed an over reliance on retcal considering how obsessed you are with this completely irrelevant consumable on the leo

this reminds me of that one time when someone told me 140s accuracy is "tragic" like that's actually crazy

[winter dagger]

Ah yes irrelevant when I'm running rammer on the leo and need to pen the weak spot quickly. Oh yes I'm so unskilled to not count on rng and actually want to hit a difficult shot, like using heat on an e3 hatch if they're facing me and they're reloading soon.
@mystic gorge Pure rng to get rack damage twice

[mystic gorge]

runs Ret cal on Leo
loses ammo twice
combat effectiveness drops to
“Muh u shouldn’t be getting hit in Leo so it shouldn’t matter”
Sure buddy, definitely never have to force a brawl to win a game

[umbral shard]

while I do agree leo has better stats on paper, that doesn't mean it will always be better in battles
their roles also aren't that similar honestly, 140 is more suited for aggressive playstyles as opposed to leo's supportive firing playstyle

[lone sandal]

has it ever occurred to you that
fighting a hulldown e3 in a leo might actually be a garbage idea? no way guys i shouldn't be fighting a hulldown bunker in a paper tank, or did you have to craft a perfect scenario for retcal knowing it's literally useless 99% of the time

and no, you're not forced to face it hulldown, you're never forced to face something hulldown, not in a mobile tank that can do this funny thing called relocating

[winter dagger]

Did I say to fight a hulldown e3? No, I said when I have to pull off a hard shot (like the e3 example) who is that dumb to fight a hulldown bunker? And yes you can relocate and you should, but my point was the shot, not what to do After. And I did not craft it if I don't have experience actually doing the example I mentioned
@mystic gorge I said the shot is my point, not how I got to or after that point...

[mystic gorge]

If ur facing frontally to an e3 ur already doing it wrong lol. Dumb scenario

[solid sequoia]

If you aren’t going to get into that scenario, why bring it up???

[lone sandal]

that scenario was from your experience?? then i don't think you're really playing the leo 1 properly

[fickle tinsel]

@winter dagger The leo 1 has better gun handling and better accuracy. The effective hp/ton is fractionally worse but the leo has a higher top speed and reverse. It's just the tank profile

@mystic gorge the leopard can run refined too..? what a fail response

[mystic gorge]

There’s this thing called equipment idk if u know about it. Running refined on the 140 makes the gun >= the leopard gun

[queen geyser]

+60 alpha, +2 degress gundepression and more dpm so idk

(Btw putting a ping as edit dosnt actually ping, it just marks the message for the person but there isnt the sound)

[twin egret]

"122 is an upgraded 140"
☠️

[modern heart]

can't the leo just run refined gun too? why would the 140 benefit from it more

[solid sequoia]

Better otm

[fickle tinsel]

@solid sequoia the base dispersion of the leopard is so much less than the 140 that it is lower even on the move. Difference of .036 in base dispersion and difference of .02 in OTM so leopard is more accurate regardless

[mystic gorge]

On movement values matter a lot when it comes to the two tanks

[queen geyser]

I feel like both are like very good me personally probably wouldnt notice a diffrence in battle

[modern heart]

i guess, but the leo is right next to the 140 in terms of on the move, is that really better than the 60 alpha and extra dpm?

[queen geyser]

For me not, not worth the trade, Alpha and gundepression gets rly handy in every battle u play

[winter dagger]

Want to see the 8k dmg replay on meadsy channel? Me in the leo 1? Then you see I play ultra aggressive and it Works, hence the example of front facing e3. I'll just leave the discussion here, I've made my point you've made yours and I'll respect that. I have a life Too.

[mystic gorge]

.1 isn’t really as close to .08 as u would think. And I’ve already discussed why 140 has its own niche to fill. It’s way better at brawling and less awkward overall. Leo 1 can’t really brawl for the life of it and can’t deal with heavies nearly as well

[modern heart]

that's fine, i agree, but that's just a deflection from the point i was addressing:
"There’s this thing called equipment idk if u know about it. Running refined on the 140 makes the gun >= the leopard gun"

[winter dagger]

Trying to say that, but they think the leo 1 is somehow worse than the 140? It's not worse, it's just better, outright. Idk my head hurts from this iq reducing discussion, and everyone has an opinion, so I'll respect that, at the end of the day I play what I want anyways.

@twin egret upgraded in certain aspects, not dpm/gun or mobility wise.

[mystic gorge]

One game doesn’t define the player. Consistency is what defines a players skill. By And considering u consistently average sub 3k. It appears u still have some time to learn how to squeeze out the most potential out of your lightly armored meds.

[nimble zodiac]

Never underestimate the value that comes from having a low, and even remotely armored profile.
140 can make work with the foot of a hill much more aggressively than a Leopard 1 can. 140 has the hope of bouncing a shot.

[fickle tinsel]

mobile and pc players are hardly comparable because mobile has a larger skill gap if you have mobile only on

[scenic olive]

140 loses to a lot of meds in a 1v1 situations because of its alpha, even the cs63 beats it because of tungsten, I’d take Leo dpm plus alpha for 1v1 situations all day

[modern heart]

it's hard to say one is "better outright" because the two tanks fill different roles. i CAN however disagree with mj saying that the 140 gun is better, because that's much easier to directly compare

[burnt venture]

62A>

[winter dagger]

Oh I am consistent, sub 3k is practically 2.9k just about, I play the leo good enough, but I don't have enough battles to master it unlike my other tanks. And rng is always a factor to avg dmg. I'm not a "fatness" level player to care enough about how much damage I can possibly squeeze rather than trying to make the biggest impact I can. Doesn't help I'm on mobile 80% of the time so my shots fly upwards... Anyways, you are making me more dumb by continuing this
@burnt venture based take 🤣
@queen geyser I do try to farm, I don't prioritize it, it's not the first thing I got when entering a battle

[queen geyser]

Oh no not the: I have less avg dmg because I play for impact argument

Omagowd it gets even better

[fickle shoal]

I forward this

[mystic gorge]

So u think 140 is bad cuz of alpha dmg? This reminds me a lot of past discussions regarding a single stat of other tanks 🙈

Regardless, if u think leopard is better that’s fine. I just presented what I could.

[burnt venture]

Wehraboos trying not to defend German tanks in every argument (impossible)

[queen geyser]

kekw another great argument

[scenic olive]

Never said anything about it being bad, just said I would take Leo over it in 1v1 situations, and tbh t62a just slaps every med around now

[bold dagger]

my 1 battle in the 140 with 100% wr and 4k damage is higher than my 6 battles in the Leopard with 83% wr and 3.7k damage for my 30d stats, so obviously the 140 is better. that's definitely how it works

[sharp saddle]

😮😮 teach me how to average 4000 damage

[fickle shoal]

Become gooder

[stable gulch]

Quite easy, all you have to do is clicking red tanks really often

[queen geyser]

What about those red parts on those red Tanks? Double the Damage?

[winter dagger]

red = critical damage spots 🗿

[lone sandal]

sure send me the replay in dms

[wispy leaf]

space armor = orange parts

[twilit crystal]

lol

[winter dagger]

I'll link expect it to be choppy, don't know why it's like that. (E3 scenario is not in 8k dmg game, but still shows a very aggressive play style nonetheless)

[remote sluice]

yes, also u get a 100% chance of doing damage on red parts, so shoot there!

[twin egret]

yall mean xd

[stable gulch]

Even better, 3 times the dmg

[remote sluice]

yall have any problems with thr 45tp and the vz 44-1? or is it just me?

these two tanks are literally worthless. they cant hit anything, the alpha damage is underwhelming for such terrible accuracy, and the armor doesnt even work. dpm is also on the lower side as well. side scraping in them doesnt work either cus ppl will spam premium anyways. the only thing thats good is the mobility on the 45tp, which is at least bearable, but the vz 44 is literally sooooo cumbersome. im having a huge loss streak on those two bcus the team evaporates b4 i even get to the battlefield. is this a skill issue on my part or are they rlly that bad?

[slender latch]

45tp is decent for its armor and mobility if you include gear oil. Vz 44 i don't have an experience. But it could also be an issue on your part either hardware or human error.

[barren goblet]

Not sure about vz line , 45tp is solid t7, nothing exceptional but workable heavium. Unlike 40tp (tier6) which is trash.
T7 is in general problematic, because of t8 popularity you get placed as bottom tier most of time and so many op premiums and collector tanks at t7 make it worst balanced tier in game.

[ember idol]

45tp is a solid tank in its tier but harder to play and lacking some features compared to other champions in the tier like the IS and Tigers

But it is miles better than the disgrace that is Vz 44-1. Bad gun handling, a jarring lower plate open to the world to see and the mobility of an obese sloth. It's a miracle WG let this abomination in tier 7 which 3/4 times would be fighting tier 8s

[winter dagger]

T29 is miles better

[opaque sandal]

Is that french mle still good? I saw it in tournaments but i would rather get s. Conqueror

[winter dagger]

Guys rammer or cali on new e100?

[clear shuttle]

either works
its just do you want to have an 18 second reload or have less pen

[cunning socket]

Personally i go with cali. Whats the point of having a 1 sec faster reload when you don’t pen your shots xD

[winter dagger]

The power of rng and German engineering to pen shots

[ember idol]

On god bruh the only thing not making it stronger than it needs to be is the dispersion

[slender latch]

Hori has jag level armor now and effective at wiggling kinda made it more busted since the gun is, even before 10.3.

[winter dagger]

Not jag level armor, prem ammo on heavies turns it into butter

[stone drum]

Superconqueror is a better pick

[unique scaffold]

So no such thing as the best tank.well that sucks.

[opaque sandal]

@stone drum thanks

[winter dagger]

Better for newer players too

[quick lichen]

If there was a best tank, it would defeat the point of this channel..

[fickle tinsel]

tier/class preference?

[thorny timber]

The best tank would be the tank you play best in,because you would be able to utilise it's strengths to the maximum and disrupt all the disadvantages as much as you can.

[fickle tinsel]

T77 is clearly the best t8 heavy and Chimera is clearly the best t8 medium. Obj 752 is the best t9. Things get more amorphous at t10 for sure because there are a lot of really strong and t10 options

[winter dagger]

752 has the contender of 50tp prot

[icy furnace]

50tp prot cannot hold a candle to 752

[stuck acorn]

50TP prot is very good, but not even close to 752

[stone drum]

Obj 752 is definitely amoungst the best at its tier, but that's not to say without competition. Imo Jagdtiger definitely challenges 752s spot.

[fickle tinsel]

The jagdtiger is definitely very strong if you are caught in the open against one but I think it's too inflexible and team dependant to be a contestant for the best t9 tank

A team of two obj 752s can definitely consistently force wins for example whereas a toon of jagdtigers will struggle to carry a camping team especially if the enemy meds are equally competent

[stone drum]

I think the combination of armour, decent mobility, decent hp, and one of the best guns in-game + tungsten really earn it it's spot.

The raw dpm + tungsten in addition to health thats within the standard for a TD at tier X is just insane.

Yes, but those 752s take up two heavy slots. The jagdtiger is just a free pocket heavy to your team.

[fickle tinsel]

It'll be interesting to see what the post buff statistics end up looking like. The gun is definitely better than even most t10 td guns

[stone drum]

It likely won't be enough to make any statistical difference, as tier IX already doesn't have a massive playerbase.

[winter dagger]

I have 75% wr with 250+ battles in 50tp prot, it has the highest mobility for tier nine heavies

[fickle tinsel]

if you think the 50tp prot is good take a look at one of the rarest tanks in the game, the ae phase 1

[winter dagger]

Premium m103

[cunning socket]

Best t8 ht is lowe. Change my mind

[fickle tinsel]

I must assume you are trolling

[cunning socket]

No😎

[fickle tinsel]

Can't change the mind of someone who isn't serious

[winter dagger]

Best t8 heavy has some contenders, mostly prem tanks, but t77 is definitely very very strong, and almost op if not for gun handling sometimes

[cunning socket]

I just said I am not. You trolling. A lot. Looked at your previous messages and see you sit on quite a high horse. Suggest you get off of it.

[fickle tinsel]

You're doing a terrible job of baiting keep it up 👍

[cunning socket]

No I am not. Which language should I use to show I’m serious. Smh. You wont get consistency in any other ht. Sure, it is a boring playstyle but gets the job done. T77 is heavily exposed between reloads and has high probability of missing 2nd shot due to bad on movement and on fire dispersion.

[gray garden]

@fickle tinsel is an OG NOX PRO! Respect him bruv

[winter dagger]

Emil 1 works better than a löwe

[fickle tinsel]

the accuracy isn't much of a valid argument or else the tank would perform poorly in reality. However, we know the t77 is highest average damage by a large margin at t8. Thus the statistics alone disprove that the tank struggles to get out damage because of "poor gun handling" or whatever else. In regard to the vulnerability when clipping, the t77 has 18 reverse which is a stark departure from the typical autoloader balancing factor of slow reverse speed and in large part why it's so broken as compared to other autoloaders. You DO have that capability to quickly escape. This is compounded by the tank actually having really good armor for what it is, which is a secondline support tank. You also must consider it has 10 degrees of gun dep and upper half of the turret is far more heavily armored than the lower half while being the only thing visible while hulldown. Seeing as you aren't even frontline to begin with and have ridiculous reverse speed, the tank quickly becomes extremely obnoxious to deal with allowing it to put in massive damage while the enemy focuses on the easier frontline targets

[cunning socket]

Respect is earned not demanded. And there’s no respect for people who sit in front of a screen pretend shooting tanks. I save it for people who actually do good work and make a difference in the world.

[solid sequoia]

Yeah no lol

[ancient rampart]

I disagree the T54E2 is better than the T77 imo

[gray garden]

That was halfway a joke. But fr you should respect everybody, (even ppl online,) unless they give you a reason not to. And instead of saying he's trolling, why don't you logically try and argue your point, (like he's doing.)

[cunning socket]

Do you use vstabs or refined? Also you need a platoon mate or a competent teammate to carry you otherwise you can’t carry. Armour is pretty nice i agree but not to be relied upon. @gray garden no stop with this ridiculous notion of “respect everyone” otherwise it has no value. You do not deserve respect just cuz you breathe. And he is the one who called me troll and a baiter so I gave a fitting reply.

[gray garden]

Bro you have literally no reason to disrespect others until they give you a reason. I've been on the wrong sides of arguments plenty of times, but I don't disrespect the people correcting me. Maybe you perform better in the Lowe than the T57, that's fine idc. But "op" means overpowered, and in my opinion the Lowe isn't that overpowered. Autoloaders are easier to carry games in due to the bursts of damage you can deal, and T77 is generally regarded as being the more op tank. If you would like to make an argument then please do so. But trying to discredit Sprint does NOTHING in discrediting his argument or making your own argument more valid.

[fickle tinsel]

I called you a troll because it's extremely common for people here to bait with obvious joke opinions and no offense but I think 99% of people would think anyone who says the Lowe is the best t8 heavy is joking. This is also backed up statistically with the Lowe being near the absolute bottom in terms of actual performance among the player base so there's literally no reason to assume you were serious

[haughty blade]

Finally the AMX 30 B is just right. Thanks WG for making it great now.

[nimble zodiac]

I love the Löwe, it's my favorite tank to play in the game. It owns over 10% of my total games, and it's the tank that really taught me how a reliable gun and usable armor can work really well together with a skilled player.

But it is not the best tier 8 (by performance and stats)

[fickle shoal]

Ms1 best tank destroyer, clearly

[cunning socket]

so "other" ppl commonly baiting you makes you wanna call everyone a troll now? pretty double faced for you and your friend who wants respect. @gray garden respect=|=civility. I will be civil not respectful cause none of you have done anything to deserve it nor have I to deserve yours. T77 does have better stats and wr but you should also take into account the playerbase that has access to both to tanks imo. lowe might lack big burst damage but has more consistent armour and better gun handling and can hold\push position faster and more reliably.

[winter dagger]

keni better heavy

[cunning socket]

kv2 at redline- never miss laser stalinium shot

[fickle shoal]

[twin egret]

T77 is just really strong, but not completely overpowered, since there are a couple of factors that prevent it, like the dpm

[fickle tinsel]

It's the burst damage not the dpm. Otherwise the chimera wouldn't be OP either

[twin egret]

? The Burst damage is 840, that's pretty grusome at tier 8, all under 3 seconds

[fickle tinsel]

this made me lose braincells honestly it just sounds like you get off on pretending to be a victim since I clearly explained that your opinion is utterly ridiculous and that's why the automatic assumption is that you're trolling. saying you should "take into account the playerbase that has both" means absolutely nothing. also saying "can push/hold positions faster" is just flat out wrong because it literally has the worst p/w out of any tier8 heavy and mediocre top speed. better gun handling as I already explained does not make the gun as a whole better, and it obviously isn't especially seeing as even 1 shot from the t77 outrades by 70

[fickle tinsel]

I know. You said the dpm prevents it from being OP, so I said it's OP because of the 760 burst damage, not the DPM, the same way the Chimera is OP because it has 440 alpha

Yes I disagreed that the DPM prevents it from being OP. Maybe if it had abysmal dpm but the dpm is actually extremely good. It is 16/45 in dpm but you have to remember most tanks with more dpm have 200-low 300 alpha guns rather than a 380 alpha 2-shot

[twin egret]

you said it like you were disagreeing

??? But then you say "it's OP because of the 760 burst damage, not the DPM," sounding that you're saying it has great dpm
oh, it's an alpha dmg thing, gotcha

[unique scaffold]

Why is stock fixer 9.5 seconds reload with gun rammer? It’s a med tank not a heavy.

Sure it has high armor but Lowe has over 300 damage with the same exact reload speed.

[twilit crystal]

Coz its stock and the entire event is meant to get people to get a free tank and then pay thousands of gold to upgrade it

[twin egret]

Players: "will we be able to use the retrocoins seen in future events upgrade our retrotopia tanks?"
WG: "Yes"
proceeds to never put an event out that has retrocoins

[unique scaffold]

Bs I knew y’all were greedy.

I’m gonna go hibernate wake me when the devs aren’t greedy.

[random pendant]

Wasn’t sure what channel to put this in but we should get a rear turreted version of the little position indicator when in first person aiming mode
Rear turret tanks position indicator is front turreted,turretless tanks have a StuG shaped one which is fitting but a rear turret version should also exist

[unique scaffold]

I like the idea of 10k free gold better.

Rear facing tanks? They’ve already got tanks that have 360” spin

[random pendant]

What?

[winter dagger]

You shall never wakey again muahahaha

[twin egret]

huh?

[random pendant]

This little position marker thing rear turreted tanks are harder to position so maybe it’d help? Idk

[modern heart]

"clearly" is not the case for chimera, prog 46 and bourrasque have strong cases and imo they are both stronger

[fickle tinsel]

absolutely no chance LOL. no way am i averaging 2.9k in the prog or bourrasque the way you can in the chimera

[lone sandal]

bourrasque is probably the best tier 8 med lol

[clear shuttle]

bourrasque has more carry potential than the t77 i find
while id def put the t77 up there for being a strong tier 8 it isnt the strongest imo

[modern heart]

i'm sorry to hear my guy

[fickle tinsel]

bourrasque suffers on dpm, gun handling, and pen. It simply isn't capable of making the same impact on games as the chimera

[modern heart]

chimera lacks mobility, flexibility, and doesn't have good DPM either. bourrasque is great because the mobility and burst combo is incredible for carrying games, especially in clutch situations where the chimera is quite lacking

also not trying to drag personal stats into this discussion, but i'm looking at your blitzstars and i don't see the 2.9k you mentioned, so saying that was quite misleading

everyone can have their opinions on a tank, i am simply showing why it's not fair or accurate to say the chimera is "clearly the best"

[clear shuttle]

clearly the keiler is the best tier 8

[lone sandal]

chimera also suffers on dpm and gun handling

right but retcal is temporary

[fickle tinsel]

was referring to my ratings session the other day. I don't think ive played it in pubs recently.
Also, I do think it's fair to say it's the best when on blitzstars statistically the chimera is #1 medium by winrate, damage ratio, and damage per battle

@lone sandal gun handling on the chimera in't an issue anymore with the reticle calibration consumable

[modern heart]

not true! by saying that, you support the bourrasque being better, since it's actually doing better in all three categories 😛

so thank you for supporting my argument.

[fickle tinsel]

Not sure how that differs from what I'm looking at, but it's higher on all 3 on this page.

[modern heart]

ah, so you are basing off career, and not on the current balanace of the tank. i'm not sure i'd agree with your approach, but at least you have some source

no matter which way you look at it, bourrasque and chimera are rank 1 and 2 performance . nothing you've said indicates to me that it's "clearly the chimera" and the bourrasque "simply isn't capable"

[fickle tinsel]

I guess I was busy trying to find the data I was referring to and didn't get back to your original statement - I agree with you there. I didn't realize the bourrasque was so close statistically to the chimera. The playstyles are obviously polar opposites but either way the resulting performance are near equivalent so I think saying either of them could be the strongest t8 medium depending on the playstyle of the player in question would for sure be more fair

[modern heart]

all good, yes i think that's agreeable! since both tanks are so good it 100% comes down to preference, and that's why i think it's not easy to say either is "clearly" the best

that's not to say it is true for all tiers and tank types, for tier 9 i'd definitely agree that the 752 solos everything

[stone drum]

its not like either of them have had a single balance change since introduction. 💀

Regardless I think it's good to actually have some viable mediums in an ocean of meta heavies.

[nimble zodiac]

No! Stop sensibly agreeing! What have you done to this channel’s tradition!? 😂

I’m happy with these mediums being able to stand up against the heavies, especially how it is in 10.3.

[modern heart]

is that accurate? a quick search on blitzhangar shows the bourrasque was buffed in 8.5... in which case i would expect that career averages for the bourrasque are lower than the current performance of the tank

[stone drum]

First off that update is not easily available on blitzhangar.

Secondly if the supposed change was made in update 8.5 then it must have been before the tank was released and was still in testing...

Finally the change is also not posted on the official website for balance changes in 8.5
https://eu.wotblitz.com/en/news/updates/vehicle-changes-8-5/

@modern heart the tank was released after 8.5 I believe in update 8.6.

[modern heart]

i have no idea when the tank was released, but the number changes definitely happened, so it affects the career stats whether or not the bourrasque was fully released at the time

[stone drum]

If affected career stats... then it would boost them...

Just like how STRV k being played primarily by excellent comp players massively boosts it's performance stats.

@modern heart it may have been in a worse state for testers, but it was being played by a vastly superior playerbase. Tester tanks invariably have higher stats than normal tanks just due to the nature of testers being simply better.

[modern heart]

the tank was in a significantly worse state, so old career statistics would weigh the average down

that is why looking at recent statistics is objectively the better way to evaluate a tank's current balance

[modern heart]

then how does that explain why the current performance of the tank is better than the career performance?

you can't easily quantify how much the performance of a tank is affected by the skill of its players, compared to its balance

[winter zodiac]

Dear WG,

For future PBR models and possibly existing PBR modeled tanks. Can you please stop doing 2D track wheels? There’s some tanks with 3D track wheels and it’s hard to unsee.

Sincerely,

Yaseung

[fickle shoal]

saves polygons on the models, takes alot to make 3d ones, both in time and for phones to handle them, also wrong channel

[winter dagger]

cent mk1 is the counter to chimera, it beats chimera in hulldown/dpm battle

[stone drum]

It's saves a completely negligible amount of polygons, especially from how much it takes away from models.

[void siren]

We should get two dimensional tanks next

Just have the tanks be six pngs on a rectangular prism

[stone drum]

Sometimes I pray for God to take away my ability to read.

[twin egret]

I still don't know quite what do you mean by your previous message
oh wait nvm I get it now

[random pendant]

What I’m saying is that if you’re driving a rear turret tank like Chrysler or FV 183 they should have a mini position marker that shows that since I think they’re a lot harder to position and the one shown is front turreted which can be confusing sometimes
Like sometimes for Chrysler I have to rotate my turret all the way around and drive backwards to peek

[fathom quest]

I’m starting to hate the bc with its goofy ahh view range

[lone sandal]

330m 💀🔥

[fathom garden]

Does WG have any thoughts on improving control customization for mobile devices?

[clear shuttle]

more like 337m max

[cunning socket]

Add on the it’s ridiculous camo rating and it outspots anything

[civic scaffold]

ngl the 4.72s reload on the new 140 is nice, feels like a low-alpha Leopard 1 that has a bouncy hull
at first it was a little weird having a much thinner turret armor, but turns out to be fine once I got used to it

[shy wren]

It’s such a nice tank, especially when you abuse your angles