tank-balance-discussion

[twilit crystal]

215b is fine rn but that nerf is insanity. Nerf the cupola and not the cheeks and buff the speed to 40, reverse to 15 and remove super speed

[junior basin]

I feel so bad for 215b, as it stands the gun depression seems pretty unworkable, and now it gets nerfed even further. IDK what it's purpose is.

[exotic girder]

Its not a nerf, its a change back to how the IS-4 used to be meh hull armor and amazing gun and turret, its going to require a lot more skill and finesse. IS-7 if you want brain dead heavy gameplay. Im happy with the changes

[junior basin]

Oh alr, I only started playing recently but was it a heavium before? The DPM buff seems quite minor and it doesn't have enough gun depression to go hull down. The gun dispersion can go as low as 0.29 now, but it seems useless with the meh dpm and lack of gun depression

[twin egret]

15kmh is still pitiful imo

[stone drum]

I would hope WG will consider letting AMX m4 mle. 54 keep its standard & premium AP shells.

If possible it would nice to also retain the 480 alpha, inexchange maybe loosing the "sandbag armour" provision.

@junior basin I can not speak for Wargaming, but I would hope they carefully & selective consider feedback.

[junior basin]

are the changes they say final for 10.3? Or is it subject to feedback?

[stuck acorn]

This is final for now. They said they might modify the performance in next update if some tank ends up being too bad/good, but for 10.3, it's final

[junior basin]

oh alright, cool

[stone drum]

Actually they said in the stream they would be revising several (I heard 12) vehicles changes for 10.3, including grille. They also mentioned & emphasized community feedback, so we will see how that goes.

@exotic girder the biggest thing I find distasteful about the IS-4 changes was the choice to remove it's traditional side armour, I would have preferred them to keep or restore the original levels.

[exotic girder]

Definitely agree with that

[junior basin]

what're the 12 vehicles? Any possibility Chieftain mk6 gets a pen/turret buff?

[stone drum]

I'm not sure what the 12 vehicles are, but I am absolutely excited.

[rapid basin]

Dint you read the rework?

[fickle tinsel]

I don't know of anyone who complained about the is-4 the way it is now. If anything people say it's one of the worst tanks

[junior basin]

Yea IDK, IS-4 doesn't seem broken. You get pretty subpar DPM and mobility for good armour. Hopefully it gets reconsidered among the 12 vehicles

[fickle tinsel]

Why would anyone run the current is4 over a tank like the 60tp

[solid sequoia]

I don’t know of anyone who says IS-4 is one of the worst tanks right now lol

[fickle tinsel]

What t10 heavies would you rank behind it?

[twin egret]

So like, make the IS-4 have the old armour layout? Where the sides had thicker armour than the front?

[solid sequoia]

Quite a few lol. It’s currently one of the best performing heavies in the game. Calling it bad is objectively wrong.

IS-4 is currently one of the easiest heavies to play and win in. It has a noob-proof armor profile and a rather reliable gun, allowing it to easily get out damage while blocking damage at the same time. The nerf to the hull is fine, as it’s not as bad as everyone is making it out since a lot of other tanks are getting penetration nerfs, meaning they will still have to use prammo to go through is most situations. In return the IS-4 is gaining mobility and gun stats while retaining an impenetrable turret.

[stone drum]

Exactly, the old layout with 140mm ufp & 160mm sides & lower.

[queen geyser]

Idk, I feel like those graphs are idk how to put it, but like overrated ? Like yea cool it probably says something but if people would ask me what I think are the best 3 Tier Xs tanks for randoms I for sure wouldnt name a Mino

also I feel like a lot of heavies are better (for winning, lets say 100 battles with good individuel skill) then Is4, E100 and Maus

[junior basin]

I got it recently (I know it is getting nerfed but I was on the line for some time and it looks awesome), so how was it before with mobility and less/no armour?

[stuck acorn]

Eh, you should take frontline TD's presence in these graphs with grain of salt. They are accuracte, just not for this class.

For the simple reason that most played TDs are 183s and grilles.

So if 1 team gets a Badger, Mino or anything of fronline gameplay value, it's very likely other team will get some 40%er spamming 183 in return which outside of dead rail and castilla is a horrible deal.

just look at this graph, isn't it weird that all best performing tanks are frontline TDs and all worst performing ones are either no armor tricky to play heavies like 260, 215b or paper TDs?

[queen geyser]

Yea makes sense for me but I feel like u need to do such analysis for every "Class" or tank you refer to, for example like I named the IS4, E100 and Maus

or mediums in my opinion M60 and Patton are good yea, but for sure not the best at their class, I would say that spot takes for sure TVP atm and Leo1, STB is pretty neat aswell

I mean if you want to know what I think is good atm, in my discord bio is a pic of a tierlist added

But for me it feels pretty wrong to say: IS4 is the best heavy in the game look at this graph

[stone drum]

The graphs don't lie, however how people interpret them can be incorrect.

The Minotauro isn't the best tank, but it performs the role of a heavy which naturally gives its team an advantage by giving them an extra heavy while the other team is stuck with a grille or 183.

[queen geyser]

Why E3 isnt on the list then, I would say its a lot better then Mino no ?

[stuck acorn]

Becuase Mino can dumb 1,5k damage within few seconds. It's a similar case to 183. One good clip can change outcome of the game.

Also Mino can way easier defend itself thanks to the good gun arc provided by turret, clip and armor that is very strong even if you are completly outpositioned.

E3 on the other hand is a better tank overall, but only with the help of your team. Without your team in E3 you are just a fat brick waiting to be eaten alive

Mino is just more versatile

[twilit crystal]

Yeag once the e3 fires everyone pokes it. . Mino still has a 2nd shot and even they have a reserve shell only 500 is a lot for people to eat especially if they already ate 1 500 .

[fickle tinsel]

I would not base how good a tank is off a list that has the kran last and the mino #3. There's a correlation for sure but I think tanks with heavy armor/more hp tend to get skewed toward the top off lists based on pub WR

[solid sequoia]

They get skewed to the top of the list because they are easier to win in lmao. That’s why the IS-4 isn’t one of the worst heavies.

[fickle tinsel]

I don't think that equates to the tank being better. The kran is bottom of the list while being one of the strongest tanks on the list and used in comp

[solid sequoia]

This is the top 20 tanks lmao. Top 20. That means the 20 tanks with the highest relative WR. That’s out of 65 tier 10 tanks. That makes the Kran 20/65. So yes, it is used in comp because it’s one of the best tier 10 heavies.

Also comp ≠ pubs. They are very different in terms of how they are played.

[fickle tinsel]

Ok yeah perhaps a better example, the t22 being in top 20 despite being one of the worst meds. Comp is different then pubs, I agree, as pub players are perfectly happy shooting AP at red armor which is why I still think it shouldn't be a defining reference for balance changes

[winter dagger]

Mino plays more like a heavy than e3, e3 is meant to hold hills hulldown, the mino is the king of holding a corner

[solid sequoia]

Here’s the IS-4 alone. And if you take comp into consideration, the IS-4 was used there as well. I’m not sure how you’re seeing the IS-4 as one of the worst tier 10 heavies tbh.

[fickle tinsel]

hm I might just be biased because it feels like such a boring tank to play LOL

[solid sequoia]

I completely agree that the IS-4 is boring. Not doing anything to bounce most of the shells coming at you is incredibly unfun. That’s why I really like the change, it will require more skill but also have the ability to get out more damage

[fickle tinsel]

Yeah at the same time I wish they wouldn't water down what makes every tank unique though. I haven't seen detailed changes but from what I heard they're just nerfing its strong points and buffing its weak points? Wish they'd focus on having each tank be unique moreso. Like a weak front hull and super strong sides is actually something that set it apart in the past from other options

[azure marten]

Basically update 5.5

[junior basin]

but it's just a 0.5 second reload buff will that really matter?

[solid sequoia]

Yes, it matters along with the accuracy buffs. All buffs are applied to base stats, which means equipment and provisions affect it quite a bit.

[winter dagger]

At the same time, the tank is stripped of that ability because the is7 will just be better than it

[solid sequoia]

They won’t be in the same role lmao. The IS-7 got quite a bit of its mobility removed while the IS-4 got quite a nice mobility buff

[junior basin]

Oh really? On the face of it, I thought it's like 2600 -> 2750 or so DPM buff. ACcuracy helps but IDK it seemed inadequate. I guess we'll see. I wouldn't mind another heavium

[ionic sinew]

why fv4202 will get nerf for HESH? it's only thing that make this tank special :/

[harsh ravine]

There’s literally no point of playing the IS-4 over other heaviums next update. The buffs it’ll be getting towards it’s gun handling and mobility will not be enough to compensate the severe hull armor nerf it’ll be getting.

More fun does not mean it’ll be better. It’s objectively getting worse.

[junior basin]

This is my only reservation. Compared to say a Chieftain, your only real advantage on the IS-4 is better turret (which you probably can't even use due to 6 degrees of gun depression)

[uneven turtle]

You’d be amazed by how you can somehow find places to use it LOL

[junior basin]

is that so? It feels like IS-4 is kind of tall

[uneven turtle]

Again, you’ll always somehow find places that feels perfect for your tank. And even if you don’t find a place that’s perfect you can adapt and angle to make your tank even better in that scenario.

One example is you find a small ridge that’s tall enough to hide your lower plate only. But you drive forward onto the ridge just a tiny bit to make your frontal glacis more steeply angled while not going that far forward so your tank isn’t facing that high up but just enough for the 6 degrees

[supple flame]

12 tanks are going to be rebalanced again, yay

[junior basin]

ah yea that's true, but IDK it feels like most of the time those are harder to come by. Like The winter map with the trains (I forget the name) is perfect for doing this with the 777.

[solid sequoia]

The hull armor nerf is getting offset by quite a few penetration nerfs on other tier 10s. They will still have to use prammo to penetrate your hull is most scenarios. The biggest nerf the IS-4 is getting is the 250HP nerf, which does hurt quite a bit, but is still outweighed by all of the buffs

[supple flame]

FR, dont make really sense IS-4 having more Hp than IS-7

[stone drum]

Honestly I feel the side armour nerf is more significant, because it massively reduces your ability to properly angle your tank.

[twin egret]

well, WG is reevaluating 13 tanks? out of all of the tier 10s listed to recieve a change in 10.3. It's certain that it's going to be horrifically nerfed tanks, but I think everyone is glancing over that it could include tanks that were "buffed" too much and tanks that were "nerfed" too little

[fickle tinsel]

buff maus to 3500 300 mm base turret armor

[stone drum]

I seriously hope AMX m4 mle. 54 is rescued.

@twin egret not 305 heat on a heavy. Regardless it's a naval gun.

[twin egret]

I thought the french loved HEAT

[shrewd remnant]

I’d be alright with an upper plate armor buff, but with the track armor buff it should be much stronger but not overpowered. As of now it’s still easy to angle and get bounces in.

[nimble zodiac]

It's going to be worse armor than ST-I's hull

[junior basin]

Any guesses to when they will announce the new changes for the 12 tanks?

[midnight rapids]

Type 71 side armor needs nerf it's op as hell.

[wicked quest]

cherry red
proceeds to shoot

[exotic girder]

Dont shoot red armor that means it wont pen?

[twin egret]

proceeds to shoot 178mm armour plate behind track wheel

[stuck pike]

with that logic lets also nerf maus

[clear shuttle]

the front wheel is known to be a black hole

[fast cloak]

No matter, the type 71 is still an insanely stupid tank…

[subtle egret]

maybe shoot that k91 instead

[torn wadi]

Shouldve just backed up instead of pushing the type when ur 1 shot

[unique scaffold]

Why did you shoot for the type 71 when you literally have an easier target K-91 headed towards you

Also shoot higher so that you can shoot the grey strip above it

[ember rain]

Nerf side e100 also then + skill issue

[twin egret]

It replaced the IS-4 pretty much by now after 10.3 if the changes stick around for both tanks

[slender latch]

E100's side is fine as it is

[ember rain]

Nah ik, just this crybaby don't know how to aim, there are plenty of tanks with sides like this

[wooden lynx]

Aim better, you're shooting a tank that has black holes for trackwheels lol

[chilly crane]

skill issue

[sullen badger]

Hi where can I find the rebalance list

[ember rain]

#coming-soon

[sullen badger]

Thnks

[ember rain]

You are welcome

[humble depot]

12 tanks? What do you mean?

[sullen walrus]

do these change add up to old one

[humble depot]

Some do, while some are reverting previously announced changes.

[remote valley]

so the is-4 is still getting its armour nerf?

[fringe stump]

Buff grill 🙂

[remote sluice]

oh my god they reverted the 215b turret nerf while giving it even more top speed and engine power. british heavy boi be cooking hard frfr. W to wg for this one

[tough talon]

so at the end, 215b forward is +4 or +6?

[remote sluice]

used to be +2, now its +4

[fathom glacier]

Grille‘s change is still boring. Bring 640 alpha dmg back

[subtle egret]

agreed

[clear shuttle]

no its +6 now

#1141032709360197652 message

[green totem]

grille for real needs its alpha back

[orchid grove]

215B changes are an L.

Now it's just a bad, rear turreted T95E6. The consumables gave it a brawling edge, with extra HP, and reactive, but now it's just a generic mobile heavy with bad armor and rear mounted turret

[void siren]

Isn’t that what the 215b players wanted? A cool mobile heavy with lethal hesh and good dpm?

[remote sluice]

i never used reactive armor anyways, i will miss having the extra hp but tbh that should not be too much of a problem. 215b w an insane gun w hesh w 40kph top speed and 1020 hp engine power, that is super super good imo. W wg for this one

[orchid grove]

215b has never been a mobile heavy. It's actually pretty slow, but it's got a fairly unique playstyle; it's a pseudo sniper, but also it excels when you park it in a hulldown, and mow people down with DPM, and with the HP to DPM trade in a pinch. Of course it pays for that with its mobility.

WG has done a complete 180 on that now. It's lost all of its armor, and its combat capacity in exchange for mobility, destroying the playstyle, and making it worthless

[patent vapor]

Feedback on these changes for anyone from WG that sees this:
1.) Grille: It needs its old alpha back guys... to compete in the current meta at all it needs to be the sneaky TD that can slap you hard, but will get punished in return for making a single mistake. I still see little reason to play it over the Ho ri with its bonkers pen. Once the alpha reverts back, it'll have its place amongst t10 td's

2.) Mino: That 2 degrees traverse will make a difference in 1 out of 50 scenarios. Still not enough to make this thing influential in battle because its DPM is super weak. Fire 2 shots that you're not even guaranteed to hit and you're stuck atrocious dpm. It's punishing to play.

Imo I recommend a rework of the auto-reloader system. Reduce the alpha to 460 or 440 and give it better shell reload and gun handling in return. Keep it a slow lumbering td but at least make it so that when it's in position, it can do its job effectively. Its armour is only effective hulldown either ways so might as well make it good at that.

3.) As for the 215b im not even sure what the end goal balancing it is. Is it meant to be a heavium or a heavy? Right now, it's really got no place in the meta unless you guys give it an edge that makes people want it. I wouldn't play it for a fast heavy, the e6 does that. I wouldn't play it for a hulldown tank because it has no gun depression. Can't sidescrape as well as a vk 72 or maus either. I don't rly know what it's meant to be in this meta.

The rest of the changes seem good. You reverted the changes on some vehicles that would greatly affect their playstyle by removing them or by reducing the nerf to them. Pretty good.

[void siren]

It’ll rip straight through meds now so it still has a role

It looks good

[orchid grove]

Why would you play 215b when tanks like 113, and T95E6 are faster, have similar guns, better turret placement, and way better armor?

You wouldn't because that would be stupid. 215b is useless now other than the HESH memes. These changes are a fat L.

@void siren literally everything can rip straight through meds. That's not a role

[slender latch]

Oof grille will still get 580 alpha dang

[subtle egret]

wg be nerfing the most played tank instead of actually checking stats to see if its overperforming

[violet island]

can all the people who cope about the grille loosing 20 alpha go back to their cave and stop annoying every person with a brain?

[robust hull]

I disagree with that. I play the tank A LOT and my playstyle never used sandbags or reactive armor.

Having extra speed while keeping the super consumable allows it to become super mobile and still can keep the somewhat good hull down spots

The HESH it has allows it to trade ridiculously better against meds

[random hinge]

T110E4s new texture that I found on YouTube

[clear shuttle]

no the grille must get 200 camo to satisfy them so they can camp the whole game

[violet island]

true, 100% camo value, 0.01 accuracy, 2k shell velocity, 800 alpha and 450 pen

[remote sluice]

i play the 215b because the gun accuracy is much better and more fun to use compared to 113 and the E6. i play the 215b bcus the turret armor is good if u know how to use it, and now when the mobility is massively buffed and the turret armor nerf is reverted, w high dpm and hesh memes it’s still gonna be that tonk that can mow down enemies in a hulldown position. call me stupid all u want, i still think these changes are W’s and i love my FV215b to bits, maybe even more when 10.3 drops

edit: wait did they decided not to remove the consumables for 215b?

[orchid grove]

Everything claps meds. I don't see how clapping meds is some sort of unique thing. 215b's combination of survivability with DPM is what made it unique.

I still fail to see how a tank with 260 levels of armor, that's also slower, with a rear mounted turret, and now without HP, is somehow viable just because it can clap meds like any other mobile heavy

[fickle tinsel]

you don't even play tier 10 nor do you have a grille

[robust hull]

No other heavies can clap meds for 500+ alpha and DPM shots

Now with 40 kph it’s easier to relocate and choose your fights. I’ve never played it as a HP sponge, you still have a turret to work good positions

Don’t forget you still have super speed consumable iirc

[remote sluice]

wait are they not gonna remove the consumables anymore?

[violet island]

lemme just ask some people who play t10 and are better than you for their opinion, surely they'll be on your side

[clear shuttle]

i mean from what ive gotten from most of the grille players ive seen they see a paper td with spall, reticle and decent mobility unusable without camo

[fickle tinsel]

i mean yeah its not in a great place because the camo makes the dpm difficult to employ and a single tvp yoloing it can full health it before your teammates take it out

[pseudo bobcat]

I mean why even play the Grille? It's clearly worse than most other TD since it has no Alpha and to use that DPM it would now risk getting clap unlike other low alpha high DPM TD like Badger.

People who are mad cuz they're being camped by a Grille should learn how to play cuz they clearly have no awareness or no knowledge of how the maps are played and where people usually take their tanks.

If you see a Grille on the enemy ofc he's gonna camp and snipe, what else do you want him to do? Feed you his HP for free and lose his game??

[fickle tinsel]

Myabe if the grille has camo that wasn't actually terrible (good before-shot&on the move) it could adapt a more aggressive playstyle

[waxen osprey]

Aggressive playstyles don't need camo?

[cunning socket]

Getting into a good position without getting spotted is very crucial eg: rhm

[waxen osprey]

I agree, but if ur playing the grille aggressive u don't need camo. If ur using its camo ur using it more like an ambush tank

[hollow thistle]

I guess u should play like a leo, quick shots and hide

[stone drum]

Honestly overall, I'm very happy to see the revisions to the AMX m4 mle. 54 changes, my only hope now is that the power to weight doesn't drop too much. Otherwise the updated changes are great to see.

Im also extremely happy to see the weight finally increased, as that has bugged me so much. Im hoping for 82 tonnes, lol.

[unique scaffold]

fv215b needs to be the highest dpm heavy tank (with a decent enough gap)
this would make it worth playing, since its Filled with drawbacks compared to any other similar dpm gun

@stone drum my fear for amx m54 is that it will be extremely slow.
Weight increase + engine power drop seems like a significant acceleration nerf
it would ve been nice to see weight increase and engine power increase to keep it as "slow" as it is now..

[queen geyser]

this /\

[fickle tinsel]

its bad enough that you'll often get spotted as you pull out to shoot rather than after shooting at close proximity i mean

&you need on the move camo or you'll never be able to relocate without getting lit up

[remote sluice]

seems like it will become the highest dpm heavy when 10.3 drops, as the two heavies that have higher dpm than it are both getting their dpm nerfed i believe

[slender latch]

Ayo they actually pushed badger getting sandbag armor without nerfing the traverse and Jagpz Tungsten.

[white yoke]

@lapis yacht hi, if amx m4 will not get reactive armor, will it keep the tungsten shells then?

[sage bridge]

no

[fickle tinsel]

I was hoping for the badger to get a much needed buff to 640 alpha 4500 dpm but sandbag armor will have to do

[unique scaffold]

Ok but there are other tanks with "highest dpm", 215b needs to have a gap
t95e6 will have same dpm, roughly same accuracy, much faster, better gold pen, much better gun dep, better turret placement?

[frank bone]

Bro what are you smoking rn💀💀

[stone drum]

That didn't say the engine power was dropping, they said the power to weight wouldn't be increased.

If they increased the weight, but also increased engine power the power to weight would not change.

[rigid moon]

I’m pretty sure the previous changes remain the same unless it says otherwise (referring to sum like the m4: tungsten was not mentioned in the additional changes so that’s still gonna get the boot or sum)

[fickle tinsel]

sorry i was confused what you meant by that for a second but you make a good point. buff the dpm to 4500 but instead of raising the alpha keep it low enough that the badger can permatrack tanks, good idea

[remote sluice]

in a hulldown fight, the 215b can cupola snipe the e6 w standard easily, but the e6 might get trolled by the trollish cupola weakspot the 215b has, which might result in them firing apcr that has less alpha. in the hands of a player who can make it work, the 215b can win the fight there

on flat ground, the 215b can shoot hesh into the weak sides the e6 has, and thats pretty much a win already

[fickle tinsel]

Is anything on the fb215b even getting nerfed? i thought it was all buffs after the revision

where did you see that? blitzhangar only shows the turret nerf

[solid sequoia]

I believe the hull armor is getting nerfed still

[nimble zodiac]

79mm -> 68mm to the rear hull armor, which is all they were gonna change for the hull

[fickle tinsel]

oh that's not terrible actually. i was thinking they were nerfing the upper front plate or sm

theres some guy in my clan with 3650 avg damage in the 215b over 130 30d battles i fear to think what his stats will be post buff

[remote sluice]

rear hull armor is still getting nerfed (not a big deal), turret traverse is nerfed by 3 degrees (not too bad), and view range nerfed by 5m (215b has always been a blind bat)

the turret nerfed has been reverted, its top speed is getting up to 40km/h, and its also getting an engine power buff to 1020 hp. it got all this while still retaining super speed boost, reactive armor and sandbag armor. insane buffs imo. this might bring the tank back into the comp scene which i am incredibly grateful for

[unique scaffold]

The weight increase is gonna make it slower

[cobalt notch]

What hull armor lol

[stone drum]

Again we dont know that, because the raw engine power was decreased. If the Weight was increased but the improved engine power stayed, the acceleration would not decrease.

[real oasis]

i hope they dont nerf WZ113 dpm

[slender latch]

They are nerfing it to -100 dpm or smth. Either way its still overall better tank than 215B even in 10.3.

[jagged seal]

i need the APCR on T-62A back

[nimble zodiac]

Why would you want a worse shell?

[cobalt notch]

Actually laughed out loud on this 😂

[remote sluice]

113 has always been a better tank than 215b, however the 215b will always be a more skill-based and fun tank than the 113 due to the strengths and drawbacks

to simplify, 113 is a well rounded heavy, while 215b is like a min/max tank that trades armor for that juicy gun, hesh and mobility in 10.3

however i will always love my 215b more than 113 or anything else. beautiful beast that boi is

[slender latch]

The hesh gimmick is also good for that tank tho mobility I think 113 is on par with it or better. But for me I always saw 215B as a tryhard's go to tank at least in asia but still a decent tank just powercrept.

[cyan birch]

why they nerf vickers into ground

[remote sluice]

so now w the 215b buffed and in a much much better place, we should start questioning wg why they would nuke the vickers light like that

[cyan birch]

ik, was my favourite t10 until nerf is gonna make it unplayable like

come on they got rid of its only armour

[lone sandal]

only nerf vickers mantlet armour

easy

[remote sluice]

instructions unclear, nerfing the alpha down to 280 instead

[twilit crystal]

Tvp alpha nerf is dumb. Its basically at 6 seconds once again and now it loses alpha. Just play the batchat.u only lose 150 clip potential for like 200 more dpm, way more camo and view range and a bit more mobility

[burnt venture]

WG balancing: tanks are either too good, incredibly toxic, or just useless. You choose

[orchid grove]

This what happens when WG decides they want to nerf strengths and buff weaknesses and eliminate gameplay diversity. Too many tanks crowded into too few gameplay niches

[remote sluice]

if only we can choose 😩

[fickle tinsel]

yep this is what i keep saying

[winter dagger]

They are removing reactive and sandbags lol

[remote sluice]

they’re not, it was a copy/paste mistake from them they said. 215b is keeping all the consumables

[junior basin]

Wow I really thought they would reconsider is-4 changes and buff it more for the armour and hp nerf

[hushed pulsar]

About the wz 5A: I thought it was a bit of an exaggeration that they nerfed the upper and lower parts of the chassis (the armor is getting worse than the tier 9 line which is similar), the turret too, it was an exaggeration that they nerfed the armor of the mantlet, given that the domes are easily penetrable, another point that was highlighted was the high Alpha combined with the good DPM (with the punishment of low penetration in HEAT ammunition). These changes imply that they want to turn it into a Heavium tank

[burnt venture]

it's already a heavium, but the gun nerfs and armor nerfs combined are just going to destroy its playability

[hushed pulsar]

Yes, sad to see what they are doing with this tank, I just discovered its highlights now that it is being nerfed 😐

[winter dagger]

Really?? Where??

[stone drum]

Worst part; the tank was literally perfectly fine before and need absolutely zero changes.

[livid bane]

Man, these tank buffs/nerfs suck completely

[thorny timber]

Either it becomes over powered or trash but never balanced,that's your daily dose of balancing by WG

[remote sluice]

#1141032709360197652 message

[analog tide]

They arent decreasing the armor

[remote sluice]

@analog tide they will not decrease the TURRET armor. rear hull armor is still getting nerfed

[stone drum]

Cheiftan mk.6:

[thorny timber]

My bank account:

[lone sandal]

don't you love it when wg nerfs a tank with a unique playstyle and takes away literally everything unique/enjoyable about it? Yeah that's basically what they're doing to the 5a, and even though wg finally gained some sense they have still yet to realise they are destroying the 5a

[stone drum]

Well it basically had everything except heat pen to be fair.

[remote sluice]

and then there’s the foch 155. it used to have this gimmick of being able to dump 2 huge rounds in ur face. now it’s just another tank that has a worse version of the mino’s gun

[lone sandal]

and then there's foch155 which they despise for no apparent reason and of course they'll stomp on f155 AGAIN in 10.3 like we get it wg you hate that tank to the bone

[remote sluice]

foch 155 and progetto 65 are two of wg’s most hated tanks for some reason

[winter dagger]

MY 215B GETS SOME LOVE FOR ONCE!!!! 🔥🔥

[main tulip]

Tbh they should've found some room to give it more heat pen imo

[ancient rampart]

What’s going to be the STB-1’s DPM on its standard and premium after these new changes

[queen geyser]

cant be bothered to do the meth

[twilit crystal]

its like 125 less

[hushed pulsar]

not only the 5A, AMX m4 54 also had alpha damage as a differential, 268v4 at launch was unique to 680 alpha (until the alpha buff at E3 and 268 line). At Grille, they are wasting a good opportunity to do the opposite, reduce DPM and increase alpha (700/720 would be something unique), even 60TP, which was supposed to have the same buff they are giving to E100 (680 alpha)

[stone drum]

It should still be in the 3.3k range, probably just abit below on standard.

[stone drum]

Giving grille higher alpha is a one-way ticket to maximum toxicity.

640 is ok, but it absolutely should never get more than that.

[nimble zodiac]

v4 has 690/600/800

Seems like you said it has 680

[autumn zodiac]

With 50ish pen HE lol

[hushed pulsar]

Yep

[keen smelt]

Oh my god…

[ancient rampart]

yeah idk what they were thinking when they decided to that that to the Vickers

[nimble zodiac]

They’ll post the full list of balance changes in late September, so let’s not lose all hope just yet

[stone drum]

It is late September though, we do know the the full list will be out within next few days though.

[void siren]

Use the other gun

[fickle shoal]

casually making a 105mm do the same as a 100mm, makes sense to me!

[keen smelt]

Nah it needs buff in dpm

[stone valley]

Buff the leo's reload to 2 secs wg. Everytime I yolo someone I only get 2 shots of before getting 1 shotted by a 183. I try to side scrape but gold spamming noobs always pen me. My average winrate is 46% (my teams are bad) in 100,000 games but I can only win 30% of my games in the leo. Obviously this is an underpowered tank. I am not buying any more "gotta collect them all!" containers (1500 gold for x3 is a great deal tho) until this is done. Very disappointed with the direction this game is going

[queen geyser]

Most based opinion I heard here so far

[violet island]

L+ratio

[twilit crystal]

Batchat was doing that till this update

[fickle shoal]

only alpha change im behind is the 62a as irl it had a 115mm so it kinda makes sense (not ingame tho, labeled as 100 iirc)

[unkempt bloom]

We need a substantial alpha buff for the FV215B 183. I can only instakill one light tank a game

[fickle shoal]

buff type 71 upper and lower plate to 300mm, i can't just sit infront of the enemy and win!!!!

[ember rain]

Lol skill issue + L + ratio

[slender latch]

Foch should have just gotten 480/490 alpha then compensate with +1 km/h on the reverse speed.

[civic ocean]

well said my dude

[twin egret]

So when does 10.3 drop? Are the changes satisfactory enough?

[twilit crystal]

On wednesday

[civic ocean]

To me the 60 tp was my favorite high alpha ht. Switching the standard ammo to aprc i believe and lowering the pen of heat is just ridiculous. I wasn't overpowered or anything. It was perfectly balanced imo.

[granite pebble]

I think this would also be a good change, however as a compensation for this more dynamic alpha damage, the clip reload needs to he nerfed to 24 seconds

[civic ocean]

lol you have a skill issue in leo 1. yoloing is definitely a stupid idea unless you have an overwhelming advantage or its the end of a game. you're better hanging back or not just yoloing so you provide spotting for your team. you have the mobility in leo1 to get away. it not a brawling type of tank if you want a brawler get something with side armour and upper plate and turret amrmour like e50. your statements are just rediculous.

[wicked quest]

You fell for bait

[civic ocean]

yes but why do you have to say stuff like that ?

[nimble zodiac]

To cause chaos

[stone drum]

What... why?

[dull obsidian]

🥺
👉👈
amx cdc buff ??

[fickle tinsel]

played a ratings game in grille to see how terrible it is. a 40% wr amx 50b spawncamped next to me and i immediately got spotted across the map by a med while unmoving with camo net in the first 45 seconds and the amx 50 b didn't the tank is a complete joke LOLOL

average grille experience (i have camo net too it just never activates even though im literally not moving until getting spotted)

[unique scaffold]

Buff centurion skirt armor. It should have some purpose rather than be HEable

[lone sandal]

grille was definitely a good opportunity wasted, if they really wanted to stop people from camping in the grille they would've done a lot more 🤷‍♂️

[fickle tinsel]

only t10 ive ever considered selling tbh. ho-ri is better in every way shape and form

[acoustic estuary]

Accuracy, a turret and mobility.

[raw haven]

buff conq speed

[humble depot]

The T-62A in-game represents early versions with a 100mm rifled gun. It’s fine.

[fickle shoal]

Afaik All T-62's had a 115mm, and the "A" variant only added a DShK 12.7mm anti-aircraft mounting on the loaders cupola, which is humorously not modeled in-game

And the only gun it ever had different was a variant with a D-49s 122mm, but it was pretty much non-existent and was phased out

[remote sluice]

what the foch needs is more alpha damage. this change will only make it a worse minotauro, so no

[fickle shoal]

I just checked one of my books but there was prototype made with a 100mm, but still doesn't make sense for in-game to have "A"

[remote sluice]

if it’s getting 600 alpha, the time between shots should never be lower than 5s. let’s take this into perspective. a T57 can do 1200 damage in 5s, which makes it a bery very strong and scary tank. but now the Foch 155 can do 1200 damage in 3.3s? that is way too toxic.

[shrewd crag]

That reminded me M vi yoh that can deal 900 dmg in 1.7s
Seems fair

[remote sluice]

@shrewd crag m6 yoh is a toxic ahh tank, and i dont want the Foch 155 to become such thing.

@pastel hazel if u rlly want faster intraclip then 4s intraclip is fine, but alpha will be nerfed to 580.

[shrewd crag]

Acceptable.
580 dmg with 4.5s reload will be like obj 752 but french td'fied.
But i liked the old gun that had 560 alp with 7s intraclip.
Also I want to see double shot mechanic in Blitz
It looks fun to play.

Hmmm. Because you like it that way doesn't mean it will be ok for the game's balance
600 dmg will be 1200 dmg in 4.4s which will be similar but rather much stronger version of TVP 50/51 and you know that thing became a menace to the player's who were fighting against it.
It will be like You take a TVP and give it armor and a big gun.
I can't accept it for the fact its not balanced.
600 dmg for 6s intraclip and 15.2s mag reload is much more balanced than the change you want.
For the fact if i tell you I want the E50M to have stronger lower plate
ht levels of penetration
And more HP like 2150 to 2200 will you agree with it

[remote sluice]

15.2s mag reload and 6s intraclip will give it 3.4k BASE dpm already. if anything, that mag reload should be higher than 15.2s, id say 17.2s to give it more of a balanced DPM of 3.1k

[shrewd crag]

The old Foch 155 had 14s of reload with 7s intraclip for 560.
So it will have little more dpm than the old one and more dmg per shot to be exact
@remote sluice
I am making a stat fully equipped and i think it will be nice to have 17s for 600 and if the HE gets buffed then it will be spicy.
Also what do you think about my opinion on E50M

[remote sluice]

i think e50m is fine as it is rn. buffing the lower plate will make it the german type 71. however hp buff to 2000 is fine

[shrewd crag]

True I just want the HP buff for E50M actually.
To me its like a Heavy than a Medium.
Because It is heavier, stronger armor and faster than some hts available in game

Also I kinda want the Rhm borsig WT to have 2700 dpm on its 12.8mm

[jagged seal]

ok i understand

[nimble zodiac]

Understand that you can just ask for shell velocity instead of nerfing the shell nornalization

Also 1535m/s is well enough for a sniping playstyle, even if you shouldn’t play that way

[slender latch]

It will have +1 km/h reverse speed and maybe a buff to traverse by like 0.01% also foch nerver really was about the alpha tbh

[remote sluice]

foch is ALL abt the alpha damage and the gigantic autoloader that comes with it. it has a 155mm gun after all. therefore i wholeheartedly disagree. idc if it’s getting more traverse or reverse speed, just dont give it a boring ahh minotauro rip off gun. no 155mm gun should do 500 damage, much less 480-490 like ur suggestion

[wicked quest]

The M/S also never changed with the ammo change

[slender latch]

That'd be too much to ask for wg even just bringing back that 560 alpha so for me I would rather just get 20km/h reverse even if it meant getting 450 alpha at this point lol

[remote sluice]

instructions unclear, nerfing the alpha down to 380

[slender latch]

You also forgot they'll keep intra and reload time the same. And maybe nerf the frontal armor too and HP.

[remote sluice]

instruction unclear, top speed is now 30km/h

[shrewd crag]

Hmm chat feels really heated right now

[keen smelt]

Nerf jgpz

[ancient rampart]

I disagree any tank could ammo rack a 60tp like that

[jagged seal]

ammorack lol

[shrewd crag]

Use protection (kit) on 60tp for luck

[keen smelt]

Im sure its not helping))

[shrewd crag]

Moral of the video never do stupid menuvers in weak ammorack tank.
If i was the 60tp i would rather hold the hill instead of flanking the enemies.
I think that player really didn't read the line up and just went for it

[ancient rampart]

Never reveal your side armor in a 60tp
You're just ASKING to be ammo racked if you do

[lean siren]

Dear WG Devs: I would like to write you thanks a lot for this amazing tank: the Churchill mkVIII.
I’ve been asking it for a while, and you can probably find my post in the old forum under the tanks request thread. The Churchill AVRE is a piece of history and this MkVIII reminds it a lot. I remember I’ve also won a contest when the battle pass have started, where we had to design a tank for a future BP. I have done a Churchill AVRE on photoshop based on the Churchill MkIII we have in the game. Thank you very much for this beauty, that came with HD textures and is truly awesome. I enjoy it a lot and shots like this don’t make my day, but my week, eventually the month.
I would love to see a realistic/historical camo on that beauty…
Enjoy 👇

[vital sigil]

Kv 13 needs more gun depression

[twin egret]

holy crap, that shell arc is insane. you could probably shoot over small hills like with the derp gun that was once on the AT-2 lol

[stuck acorn]

it actually has better shell velocity than pre 5.5 bri'ish derps

Those used to have smth around 200, this one has well over 300

[ornate warren]

The shell goes Nyooooom

[pseudo bobcat]

The closest thing we'll get to a SPG in the game

[humble depot]

Here’s the tank itself: Object 165. A T-62 with the 100mm U-8TS rifled gun. Also known as (drumroll please) T-62A.

[charred heron]

So now Amx m4 54 will only have a alpha nerf but reload buff

Still wished it kept the AP premium shell but at least the tank is less nerfed

[sweet chasm]

I suggest game developers choose testers better. Because the modifications they make indicate that they are not experienced.

Please reconsider this matter

[stuck acorn]

They don't choose OT testers lmao.

Open test is open to everybody with over 1k battles on either NA or EU

[remote sluice]

id love to be able to join the open test on asia too but welp

[slender latch]

Does asia even have access to open beta test before update?

[stone drum]

Man your trolling so hard.

[slender latch]

Yeah sorry abt that, I was trying to imagine what WG could think of

[stone drum]

Certainly not a bad idea, but the Chimera is abit modern for Blitz in all honesty.

[hollow thistle]

Leopard.1 is a mobile sniper, it should have better concealment

[unique scaffold]

So is amx mle keeping its tungsten or not?

[stone drum]

No.

[humble depot]

The Chimera TD from 1984?

[stone drum]

Uh... yeah...

[humble depot]

I only ask because there are three Chimera designs people could be talking about.

[nimble zodiac]

You're forced to aim at your target in 3rd person to get accurate shots 😂

[fickle tinsel]

Honest question. Why doesn't wargaming just pay someone who actually understands the game like hisroyalfatness to come up with a list of how tanks should be buffed/nerfed/structured

[slender latch]

Maybe because they don't like to base balancing on +60% players as it would make the game too balanced or boring. But they still should actually hire someone from the players for balancing.

[fickle tinsel]

I'm using fatness as an example precisely because he is inclined to be unbiased. Whereas a 40%er wouldn't know what they're talking about. Hell. I feel like even I could make better decisions than some of wargamings inexplicable balance decisions

<@&481447501690568709> guy below me

[solid sequoia]

<@&481447501690568709>

[gleaming apex]

Cabalango22#4948 was banned.

[unique scaffold]

Thanks.

[fickle tinsel]

It seems like when they balance they have no overarching structure to their decisions. They don't care if there is overlap or refundancy between design or playstyles

[slender latch]

Cause majority of playerbase is at 40-45% so it would make sense for them to base the balancing on. If the game were truly balanced it would deter most of the playerbase is what I see I atleast.

[solid sequoia]

The majority of the player base is centered around 48-49%

[fickle tinsel]

the tvp is a prime example that balancing in favor of 40%ers does NOT work well for ANYONE

diversity of play ruined by 40%ers yoloing and dying for 1200 damage in 4 seconds and good players become absolute pests

you seem to think that good players making the decision for balance changes means that the tanks will perform equally for 60%ers rather than 40%ers. That is not the case

[slender latch]

trying to understand their decision on balance changes is pretty hard, might be influenced by feedback or not even if it is intentional. Tho they said that they can't really achieve perfect balance but they can make a tank shine for some time which was said by a dev in this channel (smth like that) so some tanks become OP. Also it could be 'cause it appeals to other people like seeing an op tank would make them play the game.

[fickle tinsel]

the issue isn't that tanks aren't perfectly balanced. It's that they make the wrong balance changes. They'll nerf the strong point of a tank instead of allowing it to retain its playstyle and nerfing something else that makes it too OP

This waters down every tank and makes them all similar to each other and uninteresting. Take the is4 for example. Back when it had strong side armor and weak frontal armor, that made it something unique that no other tank has. IMO they should be aiming to have that kind of diversity in general

Also they'll just straight up miss things that you'd think would be obvious such as just how bad the grille is rn or that the tvp being able to unload 1200 damage instantly is absolutely stupid or the annihilator being absolutely broken and ruining tier 7 for over a year

[shrewd remnant]

100%. I’ve thought the same thing many times.

[stuck acorn]

annihilator is ruining T7 for nearly 3 years at this point lmao

[fickle tinsel]

I was so absolutely livid because i had to play t7 since my friend had just started playing the game and was only up to t7. I had to sealclub in t29 and viciously trashtalked every annihilator we killed

[radiant fox]

We all say we’d like a perfectly balanced game, but I don’t think we’d like it if we had it. There always needs to be broken tanks, good tanks, okay tanks, and bad tanks. If everything’s the same why play different tanks. For comp ig you’d want balance, but for pubs? we’d all hate that.

[acoustic estuary]

WG method of balancing and changing the meta is changing the tank’s role for most of the meta tanks, well that’s what they say at least.

One of the exemple is they tried making E5 a hulldown tank.

[azure marten]

Annihilator is a rather uncommon sight nowadays, at least for me

[pseudo bobcat]

Tier 7 is probably the most unbalanced tier ever, it has a lot of poorly balanced tank like Smasher, Anni, Dracula to name a few

[acoustic estuary]

Dracula, unbalanced? 😂👌

[stone drum]

Dracula???
Lol... dracula is starting to become powercrept if anything.

[fickle shoal]

i'd bargain the T29 is miles better then the drac

[twilit crystal]

drac isn't unfair at this point lol

[fickle tinsel]

t29 with the super speed consumable was crazy

[stone drum]

Dracula is absolutely unfair, the owners pay 10k+ gold for an averagish medium

[burnt venture]

https://imgur.com/a/YOtLHEy

[analog tide]

Dracula its faster than a lot of light tanks

[vital sigil]

5.5 tanks need a buff they are way to over creeped by the all the newer tanks from the tech tree and premiums in general

[unique scaffold]

true no matter how good you re being yoloed by tvp toon is no fun

[fickle tinsel]

if it happens to fatness it happens to everyone. nobody has perfect play

[lone sandal]

extremely well said

[scarlet thunder]

I hate how expensive the Caliban is, either make it cheaper or make it stronger. I wish it had 2 round big gun like on PC.

[lone sandal]

never cook again

[shrewd crag]

That will happen during the apocalypse.

[analog tide]

If you have a tank like type 71 u can bully tvp

[ancient rampart]

if it was stroner then it would be downright busted

[unique scaffold]

most of tvp toon wont dive ht man, theyll go to mt lt or td, then again type71 vs 2 tvp is stiill gonna lose most of his hp

[nimble zodiac]

Let's not validate the price = strength concept

[scarlet thunder]

The reload would still be slow AF, it would be an auto-reloader with a 7 second intra clip. And. 21 second first shell with a 18.5 second second shell. I just think the Caliban isn't as fun as it should be. Every tank should have something unique and amazing about it. And I'm sorry about trying to state that the price should equal strength. I am entitled to my opinion as you are too. Thing is, we really have no power over these balance changes. I think it's just fun to talk about if the sky was the limit, what would we change. I'll tell ya what. Make the KV-2 labeled as a TD

[unique scaffold]

already too far gone man

[slender geyser]

Driving heavy lane is smart though, it’s unexpected, and there’s a potential to clip out an entire heavy. Not only that, but it would give your team a tank advantage on that side (not mentioning the two platoon mates) It would only work on some maps though.

Edit: just realized if your play is fast enough in the beginning of the game, you could rotate out back to medium side

[unique scaffold]

then again most of the time tvp toon are not aiming to win, they aim to ruin someone else day

[slender latch]

I stumbled upon this tank "Jagdchieftain" was joint project of west germany and uk. If wg removes the 183 I think they can use this as replacement.

There are also other SPGs I found too.

[lime marten]

AA TURKEY ALTAY tanks

[quartz snow]

Badger × Jg.Pz.E 100 cross over?

[ember idol]

Funnily enough the Excalibur exists in PC

Probably going to be a forgotten tank if added

[slender latch]

Nope just a chieftain hull and british gun

[quartz snow]

Badger got new competition

[thorny timber]

Totally balanced and non toxic.

[feral raptor]

WG can u please revive the wz 132-1 llike it has been in the fame for 5-6 months and is already an forgotten and dead tank

[summer mountain]

Something i dont understand, wargaming why would you nerf the carro's speed instead of dealing with the parts of it that need deaperate help, what the carro needs is a speed BUFF z intraclip reduced to 2 seconds but all shells get +2 seconds on their reload plus side hulll armour buff while you nerf its frontal hull armour and buff the turret armour? (just my opinion but it seems fair)

[clear shuttle]

i think the intraclip is fine as it is seeming it has what 380 alpha and 3 (4) usable shells in the clip

[wicked quest]

Edit it’s not clear what part Germany played in it besides it could potentially take the MTU powerpack but it doesn’t seem to be related to the last jagpanzers as scarce as it is on it

Also why suggest spgs when they aren’t here

[slender latch]

It's not related to jagdpanzers cause it uses the chieftain hull and 120mm L series gun iirc. The SPGs maybe converted to TDs in-game.

Here's the site it even includes FV4005/FV215B and Badger labels them as "SPG"
tanks-encyclopedia(.)com/category/cold-war-british-spg-prototypes/

[ember mountain]

hey thats Tanks Encyclopedia, i like that Website.

now go to the WW2 Germany section

[stone drum]

Well it is one of the weakest tier 8 heavies. Its definitely way weaker than say Kpz 70 is tier for tier.

[stone drum]

Honestly I think that could be incredibly interesting if added to the game and I personally really like your suggestion. I would have made the intraclip 7.6s though & made the shell reload abut shorter.

[ember mountain]

they shoudl def make Caliban Cheaper nobody is going to pay for that amount of money for such a weak tank thats only really good for gamemodes

[quartz snow]

it will be, just give it time

[scarlet thunder]

@stone drum hmmmm, ya know, that doesn't sound like a bad idea!

[analog tide]

If you are a skilled player u can kill aleast 1 , but yeah i hate when 2 tvp just come and kill me with -2400 dmg

[unique scaffold]

its just worse smasher at tier 8

[rare tapir]

Dose jg has thugstun

[thorny timber]

it will

[iron hearth]

can wg make t110e5 good , omg this tank feels so bad compared to sconq or any other heavy tank

[lone sandal]

💀

[thorny timber]

T110e5 is good,you are almost impenetrable while using all of your gun dep while hulldown and is also very accurate for a heavy. The problem is that it has below average DPM and the playstyle is a generic heavy which makes it rather boring to play which may change at 10.3.

[willow junco]

I wish there was x5 saver, don't want to use them on tier 10s. Hate to start new line.

[stuck acorn]

x5s are already absolutely busted and WG admitted that they boost progression too much. That's why they will never add option to save x5s, x3s, x7s, x10s and so on

[jagged swift]

some of us40% players are just playing for fun and not worrying about our stats-- they are not everything

[fickle tinsel]

All the more reason to not base balancing on 40%ers

[jagged swift]

that just happens to be where most of the players in the game are, some of us don't have the time to play all day to get better, a lot of us are actually good players, that get dragged down in a loss by the rest of the team

[burnt venture]

Nothing better than some of that top grade 40%er-made "it's cuz of my teams" copium

You're the only constant over however many games you played. If your winrate is low, you suck balls. End of story.

And those people that suck, should not be the ideal balancing target by WG. Balancing around mediocre players is how we got to this entire terrible mess in the first place.

[fickle tinsel]

ok what does this at all have to do with what I said regarding balance changes? All you've said is you don't understand the game at all so why then would wargaming balance tanks based on the players who don't know what they're doing?

[jagged swift]

the developers may have skewed the results in their favor?

[fickle tinsel]

I genuinely have no clue what you're trying to say

[jagged swift]

of course not, move along

[violet island]

ngl, not being able to save x5s (not even like in pc where daily wins have the highest priority and other multipliers catch afterwards) is a massive qol 👎

[fickle tinsel]

@burnt venture bro thinks he did sm 💀

[jagged swift]

don't really care what either of you think , no longer worth my time

[nimble zodiac]

That's one less dented opinion in chat

[austere trout]

What is the bias used to balance the TD class, as most of them are not used in competitive and yet it was the class that had the most significant nerfs in patch 10.3?

[hushed pulsar]

About the Panther II: there is a dark secret about its weapon that went unnoticed in front of everyone for a long time, its "Full" cannon, was always on the E-50 (tier 9), but is not on the Panther II, (this only in Blitz), why did Panther never have his best weapon in the game? This version has slightly greater penetration and damage (while maintaining good aim).

[stoic pebble]

The armored frontline TDs like v4 and Minotauro are matched as TDs in the matchmaker. This leads to situations where one team gets an armored TD and the other team gets a passive/sniping TD, effectively giving one team an additional heavy tank to push a flank with. The thought is that this difference in playstyle causes them to have greater winrates (see blitzanalysiz) in general as their players play a more active role in battle compared to the enemy TD, which leads to WG seeing them as overperforming.

[unique scaffold]

So is mle gettin its traverse buff and losing its tungsten?

[nimble zodiac]

I think it keeps the tungsten

[harsh ravine]

Im pretty sure it will lose its tungsten. Otherwise, they would’ve announced that it would keep it

[twilit crystal]

k

[stone drum]

No it's loosing the tungsten.

[lone sandal]

yet another reason why triple td games should be removed

[nimble zodiac]

Alright then, I just figured if nothing is replacing the tungsten, it’s not getting replaced

[stone drum]

if WG isnt explicitly buffing a French tank you can quite reliably assume its getting nerfed. they still salty about crimean war of 1853.

[burnt venture]

Sniper TDs in blitz are basically like artillery. Way too OP and oppressive on some maps, and useless on other maps, because of the positions available to them.

Playing against triple TD on maps like Mines, Castilla, Canal, Mines, or Oasis Palms is almost the same experience as playing against artillery. Any kind of pushing is discouraged and it shuts off like 70-80% of the map from actual gameplay, with no way to counter except running over open ground at TD positions.

And the biggest threat isn't even to you, it's to your teammates who are the ones dumb enough to kill themselves on base campers because they just don't understand how to stay safe.

Dead Rail is grievance #1 for triple TDs. Thank god it's being rotated out. All it takes on that map for 90% of it to be unplayable is 1 guy in any spot in the spawn.

TD positions 3 miles in the air that completely cover one or multiple flanks just shouldn't exist.

[stone drum]

As a seasoned Arty main I can quite confidently say that arty is extremely different from Sniper tds.

A better equivalent to arty would be a Full HE sheridan during jump boost from across the map.

[twin egret]

I think it's more of a map issue than a gameplay one imo

[unique scaffold]

That just gives a better explanation of why people like you do have a 40% winrate, while others don't-- and precisely why shouldn't wg balance tanks in favour of their opinions

[lone sandal]

its even worse of an experience when your team gets triple sniper tds and the enemies get badger jageroo e4/e3

[burnt venture]

The tanks people play also does the TD matching no favors. Why tanks like Badger, Mino, E3, 268v4 etc. are top on relative winrate at tier X and not the heavy tanks, is purely because of the popularity of Grille and 183. Playing Grille and 183 inherently disadvantages your team, yet they're so popular, anybody queueing up in superheavy TDs (which all keep getting buffed, mind you) are the most likely to be matched up against Grille and 183, which then inflates their relative winrates.

Grille and 183 nerfs coincidentally could either hurt MM by making this gap wider, but also help MM if people actually stopped playing them as much (which probably won't happen any time soon)

[clear shuttle]

the way i see it you'd have to absolutely destroy a certain part, or many parts of each tank for them to truly lose popularity

for example people talk about how garbage the girlle is gonna be next update but i dont see it heavily declining in popularity regardless of the players skill level anytime soon

[lone sandal]

unfortunately true

[wicked quest]

Even if it was “destroyed” unfortunately the playerbases stubborn stupidity just will not allow it to die the 183 being a prime example

[thorny timber]

Or Can't wg just induce players by making sniper tds in a way that they HAVE to play productively on each map and give it a purpose to be there?

[clear shuttle]

make it the most innacurate tank in the game and people will still play itbecause "haha funny alpha!!"

[junior basin]

183 isn't thaaaat bad

[burnt venture]

This might work for any other tanks, but as long as you have redline campers like Grille and 183 they will always be popular. Players, especially bad players, love doing nothing for a reward and sitting in spawn just clicking targets is about as close to doing that as you can while playing the game.

The first Grille nerf did basically nothing to its popularity. It never dropped off the most played tanks list. And this nerf won't do much to it either. And 183 has always been top 3 in popularity, and this change while substantial won't make it drop off that list either.

Tank type MM in the end is a double edged sword. It makes games "fairer" but it also makes certain games more likely to be unfair. Smaller problems also exist in other tank types as well, just not as drastic. Having 50B or 50 120 matched up against any armored heavy tank is unfair. Having leo 1s and Obj 140 matched against armored meds is unfair. And this is even more widespread at lower tiers, where one guy grinding a stock tech tree med can cause a loss by being matched up with stupid strong premium tanks. What is that one stock T-44 going to do against a Chimera or Prog 46? Most likely nothing.

For example, this is a MAJOR contribution as to why the strongest tier 9 premiums are tier-for-tier basically the best in the game. Tanks like 752, K-91, 50TP proto, AMX 30 1er aren't just already strong for their tiers, but also routinely fight in a tier devoid of good players (usually) and filled almost entirely with terrible players grinding stock tanks with stock crews. Playing those tanks most of the time feel like a breeze and their winrate is mostly kept in check by meeting other tanks of similar nature or just being uptiered.

[ember swift]

THIS IS HIDEOUS. Kran with Cali and 97% crew cannot pen E4’s weakspot on hulldown. It didnt pen THREE times.

[iron hearth]

T110e4 is actually broken

[swift plover]

e4 hatch is bit troll now after the buff

[bright flint]

RIP IS-4

[unique scaffold]

I hate t110e4

[ember swift]

I absolutely agree as a main E4 player. The tank is now a noob proof, I really liked the tank before all the buffs it has received

[queen geyser]

press the 2 key

[cunning socket]

Dw it’s gonna be rekt in a few days

[ember swift]

Bro thinks he’s smart

[queen geyser]

its literally autopen, the cupola shows grey even with standart but you aint penning that, so load gold, then its autopen

Since the cupola is around 300 mm you cant pen that with, what does kran have with standart? 270 with cali?

[ember swift]

Here’s another game I played against it today on Kran, and I shot it with HEAT, with 357mm pen. There were so many situations where I didnt pen it with gold

[cunning socket]

Bruh howwww. Maybe Check armour inspectors if any is just spaced armour ????

[vestal basalt]

I think E4 cupola have spaced armour which reduce HEAT pen

[queen geyser]

well idk its bad RNG sometimes, but it should usually be a safe pen, at least what I figured

u on EU ? We can go training room if u wanna

[solid sequoia]

It doesn’t

[ember swift]

It could be rng and I was very unlucky, but dont you think its hideous the fact that you have to load gold to get a CHANCE to pen its weakspot?

[remote sluice]

sounds like wot pc 💀

[queen geyser]

huh at this point it dosnt rly matter what I think, if you want to damage it, u load gold thats all I need to know on the battlefield

jokes asides yes E4 is far too strong now, I think nearly everybody knows that but its getting deleted next update, so complaining dosnt do anything since WG is about to do something (I dont think it is the right approach and I think E4 should never been designed like this

but yea until the update applied, E4 gets spammed and having a way to fight it is important, so yea shoot gold and dont trust the armor indicator on E4 cupola

[ember swift]

I agree but I ground this tank since 2014, when I started to play this game, and I feel like the nerfs destroy the whole point of the tank. I mean, its supposed to fight like a destroyer while sometimes be aggressive like a heavy. I feel like nerfing its gun instead of its armor is a wrong approach

[cunning socket]

E4s getting 1750 hp right?!!!

[ember swift]

Not sure

[lone sandal]

yes

[unique scaffold]

I have question guys how to pen Minotauro in front?

when we are in close quarters I don't know where to shoot

[clear shuttle]

use pramo around the gun

[ebon lynx]

9.2 E4 was the best.
Much more worthy of the TD classification than the heavy it has become.
Seriously, it had the accuracy and penetration while retaining dpm and the turret.
Now, it's got better armor, significantly less accuracy, and the pen was butchered, all for more dpm it didn't need?
Hell, the E3, which was always the HT labelled as TD now has better accuracy and pen.

[ember swift]

Absolutely.

[olive iron]

the grille is absolutely perfectly balanced in all shapes and forms

[clear shuttle]

apparently they needed to give it 360mm heat pen

[queen geyser]

watch people taking cali

[clear shuttle]

just like how some will run cali on post 10.3 113

[stuck acorn]

345 pEn IsN'T eNoUgH, mE nEeD 380

[clear shuttle]

380 heat on a heavy 😭😭😭
so unnecessary

[lament prism]

whats up with the is 4 nerf

[stone drum]

I don't see how 380 vs 374 is really a relevant difference tbh.

[lament prism]

already type 71 was overall better I really want to talk to the devs is 4 was already balanced and now they just decide to kill it i hope the devs are going to reconsider this change

[exotic girder]

Not at all, its going back to how it was a hull down heavy with good mobility and great gun. Its going to take a lot more skill and finesse now because you can just drive straight at enemies and get bounces. If you want boring brain dead heavy game play play the IS-7 or Type 71

[exotic girder]

I think you dont know because you haven’t played long enough and once the update drops you will see it will be a good tank in the right hands

[lone sandal]

is4 will still be decent, plus we shouldn't be so quick to judge its performance when we haven't even seen how it'll perform in game

[stuck acorn]

I do know, because i play long enough. I play the game since initial release and i remember what a joke tank IS-4 used to be for some time. Not to mention that in contrast to original IS-4 with 160mm of side armor (it's not the first version of the tank, but the one just before they absolutely overbuffed it and it was probably the best one it ever had), the post update one is not interesting at all lmao. Yet another hulldown heavy with decent mobility and average gun, what a novelty lol.

Also any tank, even absolute garbage is good in right hands, so it's not a valid argument.

@lone sandal I played IS-4 in OT. Sure, i can't predict how will it perform on live server, but this tank became so bland and boring that i can't find any valid reason to even play it.

[lone sandal]

bland and boring? that's surprising, i thought for sure with the gun buffs and mobility buffs it'll be more enjoyable, but i guess enjoyability is subjective, and we will really have to see how it performs in the live server

now I'm intrigued, why did you find it boring? genuine question cause i can't play in ot i am on apac

[austere trout]

Championships without any TDs on champion teams in recent years.
DEVs in patch 10.3: TDs are very strong and should be nerfed to not pose any threat against heavy meta.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC0NcqNQarI

[stuck acorn]

I found it boring, because they killed the tank uniqueness. Now it's just yet another heavium. They basically took the whole armor from it besides the front of the turret, reduced the alpha to 400 and reduced the pen on all types of shells.

And what did the tank gain in return? 100 DPM, 0.2 accuaracy and it's pre nerf speed. (top speed buffed fro 38 to 42 kph and horse power buffed from 700 to 820)

They essentially turned it into current Object 260, but with worse speed, worse DPM and better turret armor

[stone drum]

well for a while it was something like that, but wayyyy back when IS-4 was first added in wot it certainly wasn't a hulldown tank due to that awful roof.

@stuck acorn honestly if they just reverted IS-4 to its ancient state it would be better.

[lone sandal]

do you think the speed buff is sufficient

[stuck acorn]

Absolutely not. For comparison, it will now have same top speed as chieftain. (only top speed, acceleartion on medium terrain which is main type of terrain will still be significantly lower) And it will loose all of it's hull armor for it without receiving other redeeming factors of tanks like chieftain. Namely DPM, gun handling, gun depression and so on.

It's just sad. They nerfed the whole thing that made the tank playable and gave it 100 DPM in return, what a joke

[stone drum]

What if they brought back the old IS-4 stock gun, but rebalanced to fit tier X.

say with like 225 AP, but like 3.8k or some crazy chunk of dpm.

@azure marten yes, but abit better.

[azure marten]

Like the IS-6

[lone sandal]

i suppose I overestimated the buffs it's getting(and I'm sure many others have also overestimated the buffs), we'll really have to see how it performs in the live server then

[exotic girder]

Disregard what that guy is saying he is a brainless heavy player that only like tanks were you drive straight at enemies and shoot zero skill or anything required

[fickle tinsel]

what are you blabbering about. @stuck acorn raised good points. While it's true the tank is boring as is, that doesn't change the fact that it's receiving an overall nerf and departing from what it should be, which is a superheavy that should be impenetrable in a sidescrape.

If they had adjusted it properly to make it a sidescraping capable tank again I'd for sure have more fun with that nostalgic gameplay than it being yet another tank mediocre at everything when there are far more interesting options available

[exotic girder]

Not at all its going back to how it was if you have no skill and want boring game play play a IS-7 or Type 71

[fickle tinsel]

The is7 should have the role of the mobile superheavy with a pike nose designed to rush tanks while the is4 should be a slower superheavy designed to sidescrape. type 71 should have stronger frontal and weaker side armor as a brawling heavy that is somewhere inbetween

[exotic girder]

Thats not historically how the IS-4 has been played but it will still be fine at side scrapping it just felt better before because pen number were much lower and gold ammo used to not be used as much

[fickle tinsel]

i feel like the only tank we have rn that is great at sidescraping is the vk 90 which is a collector

[junior basin]

IS-7 sidescrapes pretty well if I understand sidescraping. I blocked 8k by sidescrapes in a regular match

[fickle tinsel]

ive never had an issue penning the corner of its upper front plate with gold but i can defo see the average pub player bouncing ap consistently

[unique scaffold]

What is with minotauro like actually.

270 < 289 penetration so why can’t it be penetrated on front end?

[solid sequoia]

Angling

[junior basin]

oh IDK normally they try shooting in the tracks, miserable fail, and start to throw HE. Now that you mention it, I did get an ammo rack on an is-8 the way you say

[unique scaffold]

There’s something wrong with the angling mechanic even staring this thing down you can’t penetrate the front end.

And with equipment 4% increase only gets up to 280.

Meanwhile VK 90.01 gets to 303 pen with calibrated shells.

If this is just going to be impossible to penetrate on the front end at least make it more obvious like put it in as an effect like the reserve shells?

[solid sequoia]

Do you know how angling works? As an armor plate gets more angled, it’s effective thickness gets higher. This means that the armor plate is effectively thicker than what the stats show.

[nimble zodiac]

You do understand that there is already a vertical angle difference on its frontal plates, right? Making the 270mm more effective than just 270mm. Also, it can run enhanced armor, making it 280.8mm thick, so that AND the contruction angle makes it effective enough to withstand those shells

[exotic girder]

Super Conq isn’t amazing like the Vk but its good enough to bait a lot of bounces. E-100 is tremendous at side scraping

[fickle tinsel]

the corner of the e100s turret face can be penned and you can pull back before he has a chance to shoot you

[stuck acorn]

What a smoothbrain...

No, IS-4 wasn't better at side scraping because of some mythical players not using gold ammo back then or lower pen numbers. (they were just as high if not even higher lmao as meds used to have much more gold pen, last time pen numbers rose significantly was like 6 years ago when calibrated was added and IS-4 was garbage at that point anyway) It was more effective in side scrape, because it had thicker sides, It's as simple as that.

IS-4 used to have 160 shoulder/side armor and a weaker ufp, but later on sides were nerfed and ufp strenghtened to sprread armor more equally across the whole tank. In my personal opinion it was a horrible decision that partially led to the tank being absolutely idiot proof later on and nerfed into the ground.

Also i wonder when will people learn that blitz is an arcade game that has nothing to do with history. Not to even mention the fact that you can't know how would be IS-4 used historically since the project ended on a prototype phase

[exotic girder]

Oh u only been play for 6 years thats why lol. When i said historically i meant historically in blitz not irl

[stuck acorn]

What? Please, stop clowning yourself even more. I just said 1 or 2 messages above that i play since inital release of the game, i have absolutely no clue where did you take that 6 years from. Can you even speak english?

Also, you keep on saying how IS-4 was played back in the days while being absolutely wrong. You said IS-4 used to be quick hulldown heavy which is an absolute joke. IS-4 used to have 40mm plate on the roof that was penned by basically anything with HEAT. It couldn't play hulldown at all until much later when it was finally fixed.

You just keep on showing that you know nothing

[exotic girder]

Why r u so mad lol, you aren’t proving any points 😂

[stone drum]

IS-4 didn't end in the prototype stage, it went into limited mass-production and was issued to units and very likely saw service.

I can personally atest i have been with guides and seen IS-4 near the former sino-soviet border.

Regardless, how it was intended to be used supports your views.

[nimble zodiac]

Wait

Is someone legitimately trying to claim old IS-4 ≠ Sidescraper?

The thing is IS-4 could defensively sidescrape, the roof was a weakspot but it didn't have to be exposed when sidescraping.

[leaden flare]

its not perfect for sidesscraping due to the overmatchable wekaspot
fairly few will hit it in randoms but good luck doing it in tours against capable players in a cqc

[stone drum]

Oh I'm sorry, we all forgot about that weakspot, infact we forgot about it so much that we accidentally used 7v7 IS-4s in tournaments for almost 3 years.

[stuck acorn]

Yeah, that guy above tried to argue that old IS-4 was a quick hulldown heavy 💀

[leaden flare]

i know how much it was used
i also know we used that weakspot against Is-4s so what ?
where did i argue against it being a good sidescraper

[obtuse sentinel]

And you are lying about the capabilities of the IS-4 and making yourself look like an absolute clown in-front of everyone who has been playing this game from the very start. What ChickenMan and Foch have been stating are absolutely correct; the IS-4 specialized in sidescraping and that was the only thing it was good at doing. You can even find videos of the IS-4 from the early days of WoT Blitz if you search hard enough, which disproves everything you stated about the playstyle of the vehicle. Also, @leaden flare What is the weakspot you are referring to on the IS-4 during sidescraping?

[stone drum]

Lol, old IS-4 just straight up sucked.

[exotic girder]

You will never find an old video of people playing it as a front line heavy well, it was alway about the gun and side scrapping never as a fromt line brainless heavy

[obtuse sentinel]

That much is true, the tank was not used as a frontline heavy. The side armor was it's only saving grace; everything else about the tank was terrible. The gun was inaccurate and the DPM was poor, the turret cupolas once upon a time were easily overmatched by medium caliber guns as well. @stone drum Do you remember when you also had to grind for the M62 gun if you somehow didn't unlock it during the ST-1 grind? The grind was much more harsh and severe, but still relatively easy compared to WoT PC.

[leaden flare]

there is a small area inbetween the tracks in the back where i think 120mm guns can overmatch a plate and pen.
its not a big area but its a rather well known weakspot that can be used to pen its sidescrape when fighting it in cqc

probabaly yes when its in the back of the tank idk where its connected to as im not having any model in front of me

its still a weakspot for 150mm guns if u want to see it like that
idk about 128 and 130mm being able to do smth since i dont have the exact value but im sure of the 150mm guns

[obtuse sentinel]

Yeah I'm taking a look at the model and I believe I know which armor section you are referring to. Are you referring to the small part of transmission housing that sticks out a bit where the drive sprocket is?

[stuck acorn]

It used to be there, but it was removed in one of the recent IS-4 buffs. That and driver hatch was what i reffered to when i talked about removing all weakspots from the tank.

Now this part is just as thick as rest of the side

[solid sequoia]

I believe these two weakspots are being blended together in this discussion. The 100mm bar used to be around 50mm iirc, meaning larger caliber guns could overmatch it. The second weak point is towards the rear of the tank, but ends up being kind of flat, even when the tank angles, meaning if you can hit it, you can pen it

[stone drum]

I didn't get IS-4 on blitz before it was changed.

However I do remember the original PC IS-4.

[obtuse sentinel]

The weakspot with the orange was exactly to what I was referring to! It is most certainly a tiny weakspot and I wasn't aware of its existence up until now

[stuck acorn]

It used to be 40mm thick. But noobs couldn't stand their tank not being impenetrable so IS-4 had to be dumbed down for them in the process of removing weakspots. Absolute absurd

[stone drum]

to be fair it was very troll to shoot at.

[unique scaffold]

That’s ridiculous for a TD. Is it like that IRL?

[solid sequoia]

That’s… the entire premise of armor angling???

[unique scaffold]

Do you think minotauro would get nerfed? I’m going to try and grind for it now.

Also i’m curious what tech tree tier X td do you think is meta?

[clear shuttle]

im p sure minotauro never existed

[twin egret]

looks more like an SPG

[analog tide]

is 4 will be trash after the update

[exotic girder]

For brainless trash players yes, for good players who know how to appreciate good gun handling and turret armor and mobility like the 260 and 5A no it will be a good tank.

[acoustic estuary]

More like bad from the meta, it wouldn’t be exaclty bad if some tanks weren’t ultimately better, it will be a heavium with armor. Just not an heavy.

[uneven turtle]

Not trash. Just mid. It’ll be more of a MT side brawler than going against HTs after update

[clear shuttle]

the tank itself wont entirely be garbage but i kind of dont see why you’d play it over other tanks that can do its role but “better” post 10.3

[unique scaffold]

[acoustic estuary]

Looks like a chassis of a leopard lmao.

[analog tide]

yeah his turret armor its STRONG right? but they will nerft the upper plate armor , is 4 upper plate can be pen by some tds like jg , fv, obj 268 etc, but how you will use his turret with bad gun depression? i own is 4 and i know how to use it , for example i can sidescrape , i dont use his turret too much, if they nerf the upper plate , sidescraping will be very hard

(Yes, I have bad spelling because I am not using a translator and my main language is Spanish)

[stone drum]

Well the worst part is for some inconcevable reason they are streamlining obj 260, IS-4, and IS-7 largely into the same general role.

It was totally fine to reduce the frontal armour, but the side armour should have been reinstated.

Similarly Obj. 260 should not have had its shell velocity & engine power nerfed.

[burnt venture]

The most humorous thing is later they've said they'll also streamline the tanks' lines into what their tier X has become.

I want to see heavium versions of ST-1 and KV-4 and KV-3.

[acoustic estuary]

Interesting

As Ian Malcom in Jurrasic park said,
Life finds a way.

[stone drum]

What? You didnt hear??
We all know WG clearly stated that the KV-4 would be receiving a 72kph top speed + super engine booster.

realizing theirs another incoming Foch nerf

[acoustic estuary]

At least Maus got some love 👍

@harsh ravine what? It will almost never reach that 40km/h, gear oil is barely noticeable and i only use it for that reverse speed. The price comes with it too as i always have -20k credits games equipped with it even tho i am doing 3k.

[stone drum]

Could you please rate every change UwU.

We must have the official ratings.

[clear shuttle]

60tp and badger were 2 tanks i expected to get a nerf or heavy nerf

instead they got buffed

[harsh ravine]

Gear oil should be removed from the 60TP. It’s stupid how a superheavy can reach 40 kmh forwards and 20 kmh in reverse

[nimble zodiac]

“for a TD” doesn’t really have a good basis. A TD can have verg good armor, like T110E3, Badger, and of course Minotauro.
Use prammo or don’t engage it frontally when it’s at its strongest

[acoustic estuary]

268/4 is the best exemple that shouldn’ exist lmao.

[nimble zodiac]

Engagement range: “Hug me” - Basically every map

One exception
Engagement range: “My ally spotted you and I’m gonna punish you for it from half a kilometer away” - Castilla

[stone drum]

Castilla is still hug me in alot of situations... cough mediums vs mediums cough

[nimble zodiac]

They should remove/rework those maps then put more bushes around so TDs don’t have to be on 6 kilos of steroids to play the game

[acoustic estuary]

Just remove random hills to make the map more open.

[stone drum]

Why did they have to remove 2 of the most unique features of obj 260? Couldn't they have just nerfed the penetration or dispersion or something?

[burnt venture]

I mean reworks for Castilla would be simple (from a conceptual standpoint)

• Heavy hill needs more cover from TDs from both sides
• Lower the elevation of both the church and heavy hill, and raise the elevation of the town in the mid. This makes mid plays more viable, less random, and prevents crossmapping
• Instead of spawns being massive corridors, lower the elevation of the camping ridge, split that ridge into actual TD positions, and make it so tanks can actually leave or enter spawn at multiple points instead of at the ends of the map
• medium hill should also change to make both outside corridors more accessible from both spawns, instead of one spawn getting this huge ramp and the other side gaining instant A cap control

[ancient rampart]

Mino isn't even all that great and it's armor is easily bypassed by premium shells

[harsh ravine]

The Obj. 260’s pen is already bad, and it’s dispersion is a staple of it’s gun handling. But yeah, it’s a shame they decreased it’s alpha. It’s now a bland 400 damage gun with bad pen.

@stone drum Whoops, my bad. I disagree regarding it’s pen though. 260 APCR is low when it comes to heavy tanks. Thats because APCR has less normalization than AP. It’s the reason why tier 10 mediums had their shells changed from APCR to AP, simply because AP is a better shell than APCR

[stone drum]

It has 260 APCR, which is pretty high.

However I wasnt talking about the alpha, i was talking about the acceleration & shell velocity.

[stone drum]

If Wargaming gave you 6 months to rebalance most of the game, how well do you think you could do?

[void siren]

After trying a French tier VII light (you know which) I am starting to believe fochs view on the Tiger I

But who cares when the light tank basically has a 128mm strapped on it

[harsh ravine]

The discrepancy in strength between heavies and other classes from tier 7 and below is absurd. The balance between classes in these lower tiers is non-existent

[void siren]

There are no mediums

There are only lights, heavies, and tank destroyers

[ember idol]

It sucks they standardized meds standard shells to 160mm except for 2 of them

[languid cedar]

Revert the changes to the IS-4, it was one of the most balanced tanks in the game and now you are changing it into the OBJ 260 for no reason

[willow hawk]

Clearly WG had no clue what they were trying to balance before they tested it.
The things that were clearly bad balancing decisions were not obvious to them.
I took a look at the balance amendments released by blitzpost, and many of them were just huge eyerolls. If they didn’t rescind some of those ridiculous changes, they must’ve been from a galaxy far far away.

[winter dagger]

i dont understand what good stuff wg is on for rebalancing. I just dont want them to make every tank either toxic or horrible to play. I want to play a tank if it has something unique to offer, that isn't generic, straightforward, and boring

[civic topaz]

@burnt venture Mind your language

[leaden flare]

Your forgot camp rails

[burnt venture]

????????

[remote sluice]

wait what more foch nerfs? 💀

[slender latch]

Is the Kampfpz 50t good to get after 10.3? I heard that they were overbuffing it a bit.

[granite pebble]

I mean it basically already got nerfed, it's becoming even slower just for some HP.

Like... just play badger homie

or just grind out the Maus since thats actually going to be good

[quartz snow]

0.95s faster reload jesus christ

[granite pebble]

The lower side plate also isn't going to be an automatic weak spot either so Maus will actually be able to angle its armor without just getting penned through the track

[quartz snow]

Maus my beloved is back, hell yeah!

[lament prism]

hulldown tank without gun depression💀

[clear shuttle]

“himmelsdorf hulldown monster”

[orchid grove]

You don’t need gun depression to hulldown

[jagged plank]

Pls don't nerf Vicker CR so hard

[small herald]

I wanted this tank and bought 8lvl. But when i found out that vickers nerfed i was very disappointed. But after update it will be good for statisticians.

[queen geyser]

Well no but actually yes

[fickle tinsel]

red herring gun depression is objectively extremely valuable for hulldown gameplay

[ancient rampart]

10 degrees vs 6 degrees is a huge difference when trying to effectively hulldown

[solid sequoia]

Gun depression enables more hulldown spots, but is not necessary to effectively hulldown. To effectively hulldown, all you need to do is hide the hull of the tank, and this can be done in numerous places without needing 10 degrees of gun depression.

[stone drum]

Possibly.

[remote sluice]

dang 💀

[gleaming apex]

__synx__ was muted.

[river walrus]

give all tanks 1 hp and 5000 dammage

[solid sequoia]

L + skill issue + didn’t read pins + complaining about MM

[thorny timber]

Truly a tank someone will get hit by anytime soon.

[chilly crane]

• ratio + cope + get good

[unique scaffold]

I don’t have badger RIP 🪦

[unique scaffold]

Bud then YOU would be paired with bots.

Turns a daydream into a nightmare… auto-aim 🥶 auto fire 🥶

[gleaming apex]

ABD#1129 was muted.

[unique scaffold]

Just got this bad boy

[elfin wharf]

Ngl the m48 turret armor shouldnt be as thick as it is gonna get in the update

[iron hearth]

it's still going to be bad, it's like super huge so the opponents will always find a shot on your hull

[gleaming apex]

crusader_183 was muted.

[wintry zephyr]

Bro said secret formula of Krabby Patty

[solid sequoia]

That’s… not how it works lol. If an M48 is hulldown then you can’t shoot the hull, and it’s cheeks will be effectively invincible. It’s going to be incredibly strong due to the ability to sit behind a ridge and farm

[maiden oak]

Please nerf FV215b 183. Because it's annoying when it camp in bush and shot you.

[fickle tinsel]

Don't drive sideways in front of it instead

[twin egret]

Update is only 2 days away, though I don't think WG would make any last minute changes, but like what though?

[fringe quest]

💀

[fickle tinsel]

man the wz is a bad tank. i got stuck in a 1v1 with a bulldog and there was nothing i could do. went to see the paper stats afterwards and yeah..

[twilit crystal]

lol the bulldogs effective power to weight

[fickle tinsel]

gain 50 alpha and lose 500 dpm 5 degrees gun dep, gun handling, top speed, power to weight, and traverse seems legit

wz121 actually has turret armor though and the handling is a mixed bag because the aim time is OP

[steep glade]

wz132-1 and leo 🙊

[ancient rampart]

load HE
Bulldog is easy to HE pen with practically anything

[fickle tinsel]

wasn't a reliable pen in that instance because he wasn't sitting still

[harsh ravine]

Don’t understand why Chinese lights have such bad terrain resistance, it’s absurd.

The tier 8 WZ-132 legit has worse hp/t than the E50M.

The mobility of Chinese lights is pathetic.

[fringe quest]

That’s why I I’m not even touching the light line, already got all 3 lines completed

[whole flame]

buff vz55 tbh its terrible

[uneven turtle]

Another case of an ok tank not being meta for players

[clear shuttle]

it was slightly underwhelming on release but after giving it a second chance its all right
10.3 will help it tho

[twin egret]

dpm nerf is too much honestly. While the alpha increase is nice, 330 to 360, I think 370 would've been enough while nerfing the reload just enough so the dpm would have been the same roughly, that way it could utilize its concealment perk to peekaboo but also leaving a bit of a skill gap to time when to exactly peek

~~on another note, these changes are so absurd when you look at it from a more outlined stance on the game. You have the Vickers doing 300 yet it has a 105mm, yet the 131, which as 105mm, has 360 alpha next patch. ~~

[clear shuttle]

oh wait were they talking about the 132-1, i thought they were talking about the vz
mb 💀

[twilit crystal]

keep the 10.3 reload, but buff alpha to 400 and call it a day, abuse 7 second reset to slap for 400,

[shrewd crag]

Ok

[stone drum]

Most tier 8 105mm do 310 alpha.
Theirs not much real consistency in the game.

[hazy frost]

Say goodbye to IS-4, it will be bad in almost all aspects from now on

[clear shuttle]

except turret armour

[hazy frost]

Still, without any gun depression you can't do much. That speed buff is irrelevant when you lose penetration armor and hp. Its a heavy, not a "heavium" or med

[stone drum]

Most of the sino-soviet heavies got manhandled by WG.

[hazy frost]

Nobody cares about 4 extra km/hr and 100 extra dpm when you lose so much in return, we play IS-4 for armor

[solid sequoia]

Not sure who this “we” is. The IS-4 is still going to have one of the best turrets in the game, and the hull is still going to force heavies to use prammo in most scenarios. The gun is getting way more reliable and the mobility buff is going to make it easier to get to the damage.

[fickle tinsel]

why would I drive that over a 215b

[solid sequoia]

Better hull armor and frontally mounted turret

@cobalt notch better mobility and gun

[cobalt notch]

Why would I drive that over Type 71

[queen geyser]

because type isnt rly good at driving

[fickle tinsel]

LOL yeah nah the is4 is useless post update

[cobalt notch]

38max speed isn't enough?

[solid sequoia]

”why would I play this tank over a clearly different tank”
Gets told an actual reason
Proceeds to say that a tank getting better is it becoming useless.

Pure genius.

[stone drum]

You keep mentioning the "impenetrable turret", it's certainly strong, but your really overemphasizing the role the turret plays in its playstyle & the effectiveness of its Armour profile.

Not to say they are somehow correct or anything though.

[queen geyser]

well even if they buff it the tank still drives like a boat and dosnt reach the 37 Top speed like basically anywhere

heavies which have worse power to weight then kran have that one in common btw

I mean yea you have a point atm, where both tanks are pretty similar, at least in my opinion, so they make IS4 faster to make it more heavium ish and give Type more alpha to make it more brawlheavy ish that IS4 was before

but honestly I dont rly care that much, try both tanks out after patch, which ever is more fun for you you gonna play easy as that
There is no need to "hug" a tank and desperatly forcing the tank to have the playstyle you would want it to, that only makes you bias to sometimes good changes

[cobalt notch]

Type 71 and is4 will basically have the same power to weight ratio though?

[fickle tinsel]

your reasoning is horrible thats why. you said "better hull armor" when both can bounce ap on the upper plate and will get buttered by gold. The location of the turret mounting isn't even a pro for the is-4? LOL Also you're completely wrong because the rear turret allows you to poke by reversing which allows you to drive forward into cover way faster

And the 215b has mobility dpm gun handling and hesh as well as reactive armor which makes it completely outclass the is4 in 100% of situations

[solid sequoia]

The 215b’s upper plate struggles against heavy AP unless it’s angled pretty well. Also, a frontally mounted turret is way more versatile than a rear mounted turret lmao, it is 100% a pro for the IS-4

A rear mounted turret is only a pro in urban environments, which you shouldn’t even be going into with a 215b anyways. It makes going hulldown much harder, which effectively limits the tank’s effectiveness everywhere. I personally really enjoy the 215b, but a frontally mounted turret is always better than a rear mounted turret. The fact that you say otherwise shows a lack of game knowledge on your part.

If you’re using reactive as a way for it to be better, then you’re essentially throwing away HP, which is a terrible idea in a heavy. You want to keep as much HP as possible, which is easier in the IS-4 due to better armor and the frontally mounted turret meaning it’s easier yo use said armor.

[queen geyser]

It could be that im rly bad at math, but atm the IS4 has better p/w (only slightly) and it gets buffed so idk what your on about
and I would say 120 added to engine power will be noticable, but yea will need to see it how it feels after I played it

[unique scaffold]

Why is someone comparing an IS-4 to a 215B??? 💀

[fickle tinsel]

Is-4 is becoming more like a heavium and this genius thinks that there is literally any reason to drive the is-4 post update over the alternative far superior heavium option which is the fv215b

[stone drum]

They aren't really "giving" it a higher top speed, it's just receiving its old top speed -1.

@solid sequoia its not a heavium, nor is it becoming a heavium, lol.

[solid sequoia]

Rear turreted gun based heavium vs front turreted armor based heavium being compared. They are different tanks, they will play differently, and each will perform well. If you really want to go down the “wHy PlAy ThIs” road, why play anything but a T95E6 next update?

@stone drum it’s really going to be toeing the line next update

[fickle tinsel]

?? Maybe because the e6 has significantly worse armor, no reactive armor and especially no hesh? Also you've just decided that rear mounted is worse while failing to give reasoning and failing to discount my reasoning for why it can be better, which includes reverse poking being superior and the ability to sidescrape

[cobalt notch]

Chieftain mk6 is still superior british heavy hehe

[solid sequoia]

@fickle tinsel look at literally the entire middle paragraph, I go over why rear turrets are worse.

Also, the E6 will be easily the most dominant heavy next update, but you’ve given reasons to play the 215b because it’s different. I gave reasons to play the IS-4 because it’s different. So essentially, you’ve proven my point that the IS-4 will be worth it to play, thank you.

[fickle tinsel]

No, I gave differences which are significant advantages likely to result in similar stats between the tanks. The differences that the is4 has give extremely small benefit if any and the tank will perform terribly once nerfs are taken into account

[solid sequoia]

The tanks have entirely different armor profiles lmao. That is not small. That is very, very big. They won’t play similarly to each other.

[cobalt notch]

Is7 and type 71 will be a lot closer to is4 than fv215

[stone drum]

It's definitely debatable, defining where the imaginary lines fall.

But in regards to the soviet heavies, I simply hope WG would choose to differentiate them more, like they have done with obj 140 & T-62a.

[unique scaffold]

Hi guys 183 best tank in game

[proud plover]

nah mate, 113 just outclassed it like a year ago

[fickle tinsel]

Yeah we've been calling it a heavium but I don't think it'll even have mobility LOL I think it'll still be slow, just with terrible armor as well. Hilarious to imply it'd be a competitor to actual heaviums like the e6, 215b, and 260 all of which I'm pretty sure will have 500+ dpm on it still as well as vastly better mobility

[solid sequoia]

Hilarious to imply it’ll have terrible armor when heavies will still have to load prammo to reliably go through

[stone drum]

I see more of an issue in that WG reduced the ability of the tank to angle to use its side armour, as that was a really core part of both the IS-4 & the entire lines gameplay.

The frontal armour being weaker is perfectly agreeable & logical, but again the reduction of side armour is simply questionable at best.

@solid sequoia im not stating in extremes that it will be "bad" at angling, im merely making the observation that the ability of it to angle will be reduced not removed.

[fickle tinsel]

LOLOL yeah have fun getting heshed in the side and lower front plate

[solid sequoia]

It’s still getting 125mm on the side, so it won’t be bad at angling

@fickle tinsel that can happen right now anyways lol, what’s your point?

[remote sluice]

i honestly dont think IS-4 will be getting nuked next update. it will be worse for sure, but at least it requires more skill now to make it work.

also comparing the FV215b to the new IS-4 is kinda not right. heavies will still have to use premium to go thru the IS-4, whereas anything can pen the 215b easily. IS-4 does not have good acceleration, therefore its harder to keep it at top speed, whereas the 215b will have 1020 base engine power, much better acceleration and traverse speed, roughly the same top speed which the 215b can reach easily, and it has access to the super speed boost. the 215b will be more of a heavium type tank, while the IS-4 will still stay as a normal heavy tank, just not so well armored anymore

[fickle tinsel]

No, bottom front plate couldn't be heshed pre-update and the sides become even easier. Have you even looked at what's getting changed? LOL

[solid sequoia]

The bottom front plate on flat ground still can’t be HESH’d, it will need to be angled up. That’s the same as it is right now. And the sides may be easier, but they are still able to be HESH’d right now. Have you even looked at what’s getting changed? LOL

[granite pebble]

It was a core part of the KV-4 and St-1's gameplay sure, but that ENTIRE line hasn't had good side armor in literal years after they absolutely destroyed the KV-1, KV-3, and then removed the T-150 from the tech tree.

So the IS-4 getting a change like this isnt exactly the most strange thing that they could've done considering their past changes. If anything I'd say the IS-7 line has had the most consistently usable side armor for a longer period of time.

[fickle tinsel]

hahahahhahaha i almost feel bad this is just getting embarrassing

[clear shuttle]

imagine running cali on the 215B

[cobalt notch]

FV2015b doesn't have bpr which is why I refuse to play it

[solid sequoia]

Oh no! Anyways.

[fickle tinsel]

Yeah no super uni would ever run cali lol

@solid sequoia good thing the 215b can easily run circles around the is-4

[solid sequoia]

215b may be mobile, but it’s not going to be running circles around the IS-4, especially if said heavy has cover it can use lol. Nice try, but you aren’t going to be reliably HESHing the lower plate.

@cobalt notch my argument is destroyed, I’m never going to financially recover from this

[clear shuttle]

personal preference ig 🤷‍♀️

[cobalt notch]

Sorry buddy but Fv215 will easily hesh the bottom plate of Is-4 every time@solid sequoia

[queen geyser]

Gravitron moment

[fickle tinsel]

yeah 215b post mobility buff with super speed consumable will get out-traversed by the is4 I'll never get to the sides of your nerfed hull armor 🧠

Also your angled hull argument is hilarious when sidescraping effectively you will be almost directly on and therefore heshable in the lower front plate if you show even a sliver. You lose either way LOL. The angle you gave makes you easily ap pennable in the side of the hull so its not even a valid example

[solid sequoia]

Yeah IS-4 will sit out in the open and not use cover 🧠

When angled the lower plate isn’t hesh able, as I showed in the image above. Nice try though!

[hollow thistle]

man i'm playing leo1 and ghost shelling has became rediculous
had more than 5 recently

[fickle tinsel]

Hey genius when you angle that steeply I can pen the sides of your nerfed side hull using AP with ease as I literally just said

[clear shuttle]

any is-4 player with more than 1 braincell wont let a 215B get to their sides that easily tbf

[solid sequoia]

LMAO okay dude, whatever you say

[remote sluice]

☝️🤓 erm aksually

cali on 215b is great bcus u get so much more opportunities to nuke ppl in the side with hesh. i dont ever run cali on single shot tanks cus rammer is the best, but im making an exception to this bad boy cus of that juicy hesh memes

[fickle tinsel]

congrats you changed the angle and made the front pennable wirh hesh again LOOOOOOOL

[solid sequoia]

Again, whatever you say. You’re obviously a pro at the IS-4 and 215b.

[fickle tinsel]

LOL whats your point? Even at that perfect angle you have that side front plate that can now be penned with gold even using rammer before your turret shows at all. sidescraping is pointless

And no, there is only one precise angle where only gold would reliaby penetrate and it's a null point because that situation would get you penned before you even can show your turret. 🧠🧠🧠

And no you wouldn't get your shot off when your pennable upper hull becomes visible at least a second or two before your gun has a line of fire and then you still have to stop and aim unless you shoot with on the move dispersion

[solid sequoia]

Wow, you have to use gold to reliably penetrate, literally what I’ve been saying the entire time, good job.

It’s not one precise angle lol, it’s quite a few angles. And you would still get your shot off so it doesn’t really matter.

A second or two? How slow are you backing up lmao. It’s at most a quarter of a second. And you’re moving so little that otm dispersion doesn’t really have time to take hold.

[clear shuttle]

[stone drum]

KV-4, ST-I, and IS-4 is basically the whole line?

[stone drum]

You do realize Fv215b will have the same, if not a stronger upperplate than IS-4.

[lament prism]

wdym u do you wont able to shoot in a hulldown position without gun depression

[fickle tinsel]

"doesn't really have time to take hold"

is4 has horrible base dispersion and horrible otm dispersion. I'll take that chance any day.

OTM dispersion isn't listed as being changed and the dispersion is still pretty bad post update. LOL idk why you are acting like these are massive buffs its receiving

[solid sequoia]

IS-4 is also getting better accuracy next update! Crazy how that works.

.345 base on a tank with good armor and decent mobility isn’t bad lol. It also has .2/.2/.1 otm which is pretty good for a heavy with armor

[twin egret]

I run Cali, it's a huge help on the hesh

[thorny timber]

Yes,what hulldown even means by definition is that you hide your hull or half of it (if it's a turretless td) and with the help of a strong armored turret you become impervious to most shells,now whether you'd be able to shoot or not is a sub topic

[ancient rampart]

IS-4 was fine how it was there was no reason to change it

[lament prism]

that would be just bouncing u wont be able to get shots. its possible in most heavies. so is 4 being specifically a hulldown tank. i dont think so

[thorny timber]

That's because because of the gun depression there's more places where it can "effectively" hulldown,some places are just made more for "bouncing" and don't let you shoot

Hulldown ≠ effective hulldown

[lament prism]

i get ur point. in conclusion is 4 can hulldown but not effectively as compared to some other tanks. st 1 is more of a hulldown tank honestly

[stone drum]

.2/.2/.1 is actually pretty awful for any tier X heavy with a gun caliber below 130mm

@solid sequoia AMX m4 mle. 54 can Literally sit in front of a Ho-Ri and the handling still kinda sucks.

[solid sequoia]

When you have the ability to sit still like the IS-4, it’s not really that bad. And with the accuracy getting better next update, it won’t really be an issue

The M4 54 also has .362 base dispersion

[sage folio]

???

[solid sequoia]

T57 being sent back in time

[fickle tinsel]

t57 definitely needs buff not at all like i was doing over 4k in it last time i played it

I think its 2350->2400

[sage folio]

They messed up on the website

[fickle tinsel]

Looks like they're nuking its dpm in exchange for 50 more hp and slightly better armor so IG it will be semi not broken now

[sullen thistle]

Does anyone have a link to all the balance changes if this update?

[chilly crane]

What mechanic will polish meds get ? it's not really clear on the update review

[stone drum]

It has .384 base dispersion, lol.

[twilit crystal]

its getting better turret but worse hull

[fickle shoal]

Looks like the improved gear oil stuff from the 60 line

If you mean vehicle specific ability it probably doesn't have one

[stone drum]

What is this garbage?
Just an absolute L.
It gets a gun & mobility nerf for literally nothing in exchange? How can you even call this balancing?

[nimble zodiac]

Stop calling it “literally nothing” >:l

[fickle tinsel]

frontal hull armor is thicker and that tank was overpowered

[stone drum]

The frontal armour was not changed and it was not overpowered.

@nimble zodiac oh yeah, I forgot the extra .39 traverse on medium terrain & like 100 extra dpm...

[fickle tinsel]

10 mm thicker according to blitzhangar and it was overpowered lol

If they revoked the armor buff it was probably because they determined it'd still be strong without it since it was borderline OP before the nerfs

[stone drum]

Again, thats not what happened, they aren't increasing the armour thickness.

Its just getting an alpha, mobility, and penetration nerf in exchange for slightly higher dpm as literally everything else gets a dpm buff.

[twilit crystal]

215b is saved, gets a way better top speed buff and no armor nerf.

[stone drum]

You think it was borderline OP? Are you actually serious? Lol.
While they Buffed IS-7 & E5?

It will be nowhere near strong after this.

@fickle tinsel it never had 580 alpha, the gun depression is average & countered by its massive size, plenty of tank have strong turrets and if you turned its turret it could be penned, as for mobility it had average acceleration paired with some of the worst in class traverse.

[fickle tinsel]

Yeah it literally was. Never should have gotten the tungsten. The turret is utterly impervious using gun dep, the gun dep itself is good, and the 580 alpha was crazy. Then they made it mobile as well LOL and it gets 20 reverse too to make poking an option for its 580 alpha? Busted

[reef rivet]

I think the su-152 needs A Nerf for damage

[winter dagger]

LOOL time traveling t57

[humble depot]

Big bonk tank meant to do big bonk should have the ability to do big bonk.

[ancient rampart]

Why it already has bad pen and dispersion

[fickle tinsel]

All turrets can be gold spammed somewhere. Except the mle and kran when using gun dep. The size doesn't counter the gun depression and the upper plate is impervious when using gun dep anyway as well. Average acceleration is.. literally average for a heavy. Doesn't change the fact that top speed is very high. And 552 alpha is extremely good for a tank that can't be shot back when hull down

🤦‍♂️552 is the alpha with the tungsten dude

[reef rivet]

Cuz it one taps the sturer with HE 💀

[stone drum]

Top speed is irrelevant if you cant reach it. Also do not lie, it has 480 alpha.

@fickle tinsel oh so now we state stats with consumables activated 🐒. Well in that case Deathstar has 5k dpm.

You complain about IS-4, but atleast it got something in return.

@winter dagger atleast it got gun buffs & a decent mobility buff.

[winter dagger]

They turned is4 into pre 10.3 obj 260, so basically you also get a heap of nothing

[solid sequoia]

It’s going to be better than the current 260 lol

[ancient rampart]

yeah 152mm HE does that
it's not exclusive to the SU-152

[winter dagger]

Ah yes from 2.5k DPM to 2.7k DPM (my number calculation may be wrong cause mental maths)

[iron hearth]

how many credits would i get for selling is4 ?

[stone drum]

Oh, but IS-4 nerfs were justified because "If they revoked the armor buff it was probably because they determined it'd still be strong without it since it was borderline OP before the nerfs.".

Dont forget your invincible turret that doesn't even require gun depression to work...

CLEARLY IS-4 is the balanced one and AMX m4 is the evil, absolutely game breaking borderline op one...

[queen geyser]

oh no not this graph again

[twin egret]

Quite unfortunate it's getting a nerf to its view range honestly, I would've liked it to see a buff to that aspect compared to the p/w ratio.

[winter dagger]

You surely forgot is4 gets a massive hp Nerf too, and the turret? Just shoot HE. Can you HE spam an AMX turret as effectively? Not really. It may not be practical, but this just shows the is4 was strong in it's element, by being tanky, annoying to pen, and can pen back. Now if you take away two of those things and add a touch of DPM, you basically get a 260 with a good turret and a higher penetration gun... Like why would I play a tank that's now ONLY good hulldown, when previously it was a "use everywhere except very hilly terrain" tank. Now AMX should not get the nerfs it had, as the gun is as accurate as an is7, but the AMX at least doesn't have its play style completely changed. And is4 with 2.4k hp base feels so bad

[granite pebble]

Man it's crazy how so many people thought that they would fine tune the balance changes more when WG has basically never done that.

The update comes out tomorrow, and almost nothing changed for the tanks that needed it the most, man, that's crazy.

[stone drum]

In terms of HE spam they are roughly equally vulnerable. AMX got the same thing done to it, now like IS-4 its "only good hulldown".

The m4 didn't have it's playstyle, it just got straight up worse at basically everything. They didn't even leave the AP/AP standard prammo set-up.

its fine to Nerf a tank, but it should be done correctly. AMX should just have had its penetration dropped 10mm on both rounds, sandbags & tungsten removed, and the mobility on medium terrain + accuracy rebuffed.

[winter dagger]

The AMX did have the "aggro take a position fast" play style, but it's worse on gun now for sure, mobility is roughly better or the same, I don't own the thing to know, but is4 armor was needed to be tuned down, not strip away, AND THE HP LIKE WHY, now it's just a joke only good at hulldown. And AMX was good at playing with it's upper plate before from my experiences, but hulldown it is more of a monster than the is4 due to extra gun depression imo

[stone drum]

It's not so much as that, but the exact numbers of the actual changes were ambiguous. Then they dropped this absolute garbage.

If they had made AMX like 82 tonnes and only slightly reduced acceleration that would have been interesting, but no it is still superlight and they accomplished absolutely nothing.

@winter dagger the Mobility is significantly worse, it lost over 1 effective hp/t on medium terrain & gained not even half a degree of traverse on medium terrain.

[winter dagger]

Well that makes a lot more sense, I don't agree with is4 changes, even if it "gained mobility and a bit better gun" but AMX didn't gain much because it inhibits what it used to be able to do

[granite pebble]

I'm talking about in general, like there would be people who would make an argument about how "Oh they'll change things on the test server!"

And things only managed to get worse.

The AMX is basically losing mobility and gun effectiveness while gaining literally nothing.

The E4 is getting absolutely destroyed, the E5 is getting an INSANE buff while losing nothing, the 260 is just another wannabe IS-7 as if we didn't have the 5A VZ.55, and Obj 777 to fill the niche of "wanna be IS-7"

Like... this update absolutely nukes the diversity of tanks.

[winter dagger]

Then there's the goat that is the 215b

[stone drum]

Thanks for reminding my about obj 260.

I got it the other day (Literally) and absolutely fell in love with it... now its getting a shell velocity & mobility nerf like 2 days later. 😭

[granite pebble]

Funnily enough it actually ends up taking a W now that they actually turned it into a heavium and un-nerfed the turret, quite honestly it's going to be interesting seeing whether the E5 or FV will be played more

[fickle tinsel]

what are you talking about? I said alpha not dpm. If you're going to push on a hulldown heavy they're gonna shoot you and why would they not pop the tungsten

[junior basin]

discord said "regular APCR shells are replaced with AP" does this mean that both regular and gold shells are replaced with AP? Chieftain only has APCR regular and premium and HESH

[stone drum]

It's not so much as that, but the exact numbers of the actual changes were ambiguous. Then they dropped this absolute garbage.

If they had made AMX like 82 tonnes and only slightly reduced acceleration that would have been interesting, but no it is still superlight and they accomplished absolutely nothing.

@winter dagger the Mobility is significantly worse, it lost over 1 effective hp/t on medium terrain & gained not even half a degree of traverse on medium terrain.

@fickle tinsel tungsten has like a 90s cooldown & it's only good for like 2 shots generally.

[nimble zodiac]

I believe the layout will be AP/APCR/HE
It does throw me off that it says "shells"

[junior basin]

Yea I thought exactly that at first, but then it says shells, plural, and doesn't say "regular APCR shells" just "APCR shells". They are very, very specific down to the mm and decimals about the armour and gun changes, so IDK. Fingers crossed it gets gold ap, because then that will probably be like 330 pen

[fickle tinsel]

That's my point. The AMX is invincible hull down. You have to eat a shot or two to dig it out and they're likely going to pop tungsten for a guaranteed pen. Im guessing you have the tank and that's why you're defending it being too much of a nerf so hard but at the same time that means u have to realize how strong that really is

[stone drum]

I'm not defending tungsten. It's a strong tank for sure, but I don't think you realize it's weaknesses.
I personally want the old nostalgic AMX m4, but We got handed this crap.

[fickle tinsel]

I don't own the tank so I'm sure the side armor and height are more obnoxious in practice. I just know the skill ceiling on the other hand, much like the fv215b, is extremely high. Fatness, for example, hates the tank but it's his 3rd highest average damage after the t100 and obj 260 both of which were broken at the time he played them

[stone drum]

I mean he hasn't played the tank according to blitzstars in almost 3 years... when it was brand-new.

@fickle tinsel It only got a single change since release, where it lost roughly .02 dispersion & 50hp inexchange for sandbags & tungsten which was a stupid change.

[fickle tinsel]

Isn't this the first nerf it's receiving though? And it's got several buffs since release?

[stone drum]

They could just revert it to this (before sandbags & tungsten) and the tank would be perfectly fine. They didn't need to do the crap they did.

[fickle tinsel]

I think it's similar to the is-4 where while the is-4 was very strong pre-nerf a nerf wasn't necessarily needed and there wasn't really a crowd that cares/wanted it nerfed unlike the TVP which everyones hates and wants smacked with the nerf bat

[winter dagger]

Tvp nerfs were deserved, and strv k also

[stone drum]

I would have liked to have seen Strv get +1kph in both directions tbh.

[uneven turtle]

Mm yes more heaviums

[drowsy plaza]

STRV K is only really effective with a good player. Most just get massacred. As more enter the player base it’s going to do a nose dive like the Mk6 and Concept

[latent wasp]

Fv more ammo

[stone drum]

Alright, We'll double the Fv4005s ammunition capacity, lol.

[granite pebble]

Hell yeah, we've been needing this buff

[latent wasp]

The fv4005s is more heavy more armored so paper un wot blizt

[fickle tinsel]

<@&481447501690568709>

[gleaming apex]

JugReed#5701 was banned.

[fringe quest]

💀

[quartz snow]

Oh you want another Progetto 65 nerf? Coming right up!

[stark sky]

Tvp neft was so deserved lol, really too much people spamming that tank in comp

[surreal crypt]

Its only good if u know how to use it

[quartz snow]

That doesnt mean idiots couldnt yolo you and bleed 1240 off of you, even if that means theyll die

[clear shuttle]

as long as they clip someone out for 1200 they'll be satisfied

[remote sluice]

come back again for more foch nerfs

[stark sky]

Yeah ofc every tanks is good if u know how to use it well but when u compare it with progetto 65 on blitzstars it is just better in every way: double number of player plays it and higher average wr, higher kda, higher ave dmg, etc. So yeah, it is clearly overpowered therefore everyone love to play it, and this clearly need a massive neft so some noobs can not be able to yolo in this tank anymore and switch to other tanks

[balmy obsidian]

When can the M60 get PBR graphics

[remote sluice]

vickers CR is completely nuked rip

[subtle egret]

same dpm as tier 8 mts

[mental haven]

armor profile will be posted

[winter dagger]

Ratings be like:

[ashen drum]

Was the carro angled armor slightly adjusted as mentioned recently this new update?

[remote sluice]

bro the FV215b is absolutely zooming rn. love to see it

[vestal basalt]

I like ramming Mt line with it

[past vale]

Breh, another +600 burst heavy on tier 7.

[spark kestrel]

no, they turned it into a shittier version of the 777 so more people would spend money gambling for it. classic wg.

[clear shuttle]

dawg since when could you use the s word in this server

[remote sluice]

fr man punching mediums is so much more effective now w this new zoomer speed

[winter dagger]

777 is just the Chad version of is4 now

[lone sandal]

is4 is still decent, unsurprising

[spark kestrel]

they did the same with a lot of collectors. concept - better e5, vk90 - better vk72/e100, carro - better progetto, kpz - better e50m, t22m - better t62a, 907 - better obj 140 that somehow competes with the t100lt.
it is so fkn blatant now that theyre trying to sell more of their dumbass lootbox collectors.
gotta love how they handled the negative feedback too lmfaoo. "oh people seem to completely hate our changes to the IS-4, how can we fix it? ohh yeah, give it slightly improved traverse speed, that'll do it"

[stone drum]

AMX m4 mle. 54 is sooo slow now, barely goes 38 now.

[humble depot]

Hey WG, riddle me this:

Why does the BUGI have a 100mm with 240 alpha at Tier VI, while there are multiple Tier 5s with 105mm guns at Tier V with 280?

[winter dagger]

Now E5 could be said to be as good as concept in certain situations, and VK72/E100 may have similar capabilities in a town environment compared to VK90. But only one issue, 121b is worse than wz121 lmao

[clear shuttle]

tbh reactive was what made the 121B stand out and server some sort of a purpose

[spark kestrel]

anyway, im done with this burning pile of hot garbage of a game after autumn season tournaments.
used to play wot blitz over wot PC because because of tier 10 being more balanced and enjoyable with every tank having a slightly different role and playstyle, even the collectors, but on PC they recently took steps to fix the balance, and here our lovely alexandra decided to choose greed and completely screw over the entirety of tier 10. now instead of the collectors being better in some way while being worse in others they adjusted the TT tanks to play almost the same but worse in most regards.

[winter dagger]

Speed boost on med be like

[spark kestrel]

concept is far better, especially in hulldown. e5 turret is easily pennable with gold, not even talking about the fact a maxed e5 has less dpm than a stock concept lmfao.
VK72 get penned all the time in the side, and e100 gets penned in the turret. vk90 performs far better in a city, especially after the unnecessary buffs they gave it.
but yeah, the is4-777 BS they pulled is the most blatant and obvious example of their greed. they probably made the 777 so much better because of it being such a hard to get tank with all the lootbox bs you gotta go trough to get it, which will make people spend a ton of money

[remote sluice]

yea the 9.1 rebalance was arguably more of a W than this one. however ill take 40kph fv215b any time lmao

[winter dagger]

215b speed is a chef's kiss

[hollow thistle]

Man the -1 degree on the Leopard.1 sucks

[proper depot]

It's not really that visible overall tbh

[past vale]

The 777 got a ninja nerf with the AP change, AP is superior 100% of the time thanks to normalization, the 777 might need to switch to prammo more often now. But yes, they trashed the IS-4, they weirdly made it more accurate. They also nerfed the Concept 1B with a reverse speed nerf, reverse speed is definitely a highly valuable stat for any tank. The V4 also got nerfed, even the Strv K got nerfed decently. But bruh, they DESTROYED the 5A for no actual reason, it was already a discount IS-7.

[solid sequoia]

Blazing hot takes as usually from balance discussion

[lone sandal]

i highly suggest everyone to try the is4 before making any judgements or assumptions, is4 is still a decent tank, still has insane turret armour, gun is actually pretty nice now, but youve got to hide the hull at all times

[dire pagoda]

is4 literally useless

[hollow thistle]

No it really is.
With a tank without armor, u try not to expose yourself as much as possible.

With the -1 it really affects it in my opinion

[lone sandal]

8 gd is still enough it doesn't even rely on gd to not expose itself hello

[hollow thistle]

When u snap shot from terrains. It wasn't even necessary

[lone sandal]

so we agree that 9 gd wasn't necessary and 8 gd will do the job just fine
well that settles it

[odd night]

So which tank is op now guys

[knotty plover]

Is there a full list of balance changes yet?

[clear shuttle]

https://eu.wotblitz.com/en/news/updates/vehicle-changes-season-2/

[hollow thistle]

I mean the -1 wasn't necessary

[shrewd crag]

Amx 50b lost its hull armor.
I am sadge

[knotty plover]

I had a look at the British medium changes, idk why HE is getting a massive penetration nerf, most people run AP/HEAT and don't bring HE

Seems pretty pointless

@queen geyser yeah

[queen geyser]

which tank ? FV4202 ?

Nobody runned the HEAT gun on it before 10.3. since there is no reasons why u would

Now the buffed the normal HE alpha, so they nerfed the pen to not make it broken at least on the HESH gun which u should use in the first place

[remote sluice]

rip (from fv215b’s 187mm pen hesh round)

[lone sandal]

sure wasn't but it's just as unnecessary as 9 gd

[shrewd crag]

Give us the old 50b back
Also E100 is kinda dum in 10.3
Casually doing 4k without effort.
Also i am thinking should i start grinding for Fv215b or go for prog 65

[knotty plover]

HEAT is the way to play these mediums, armour penetration is really good on HEAT rounds and can get more damage if you know what you are doing (500 dmg per shot on high roll really nice)

I load AP if I can't pen with HEAT

For below: yeah i know there are better mediums but it's the only tree i have researched almost, I'm on tier 9 rn and it has tier X gun

Tier 9 and tier 10 got two guns, one loads heat, which is the one I'm using

[queen geyser]

there is no reason to play FV4202 with HEAT, its just a worse version of similar armored mediums, for example Patton

U played Fv4202 because of the juicy HESH, sadly it got nerfed, it had very great dpm with HESH before update

bro u confuse HEAT and HESH I think

but bro HEAT has 300 alpha on both tanks, I think u confuse HEAT and HESH

[knotty plover]

Idk, I'm firing gold and getting 500 damage on a pen sometimes, it's heat because if i don't pen it deals like 50 damage

[shrewd crag]

I am disappointed on WG's rebalancing.
They may have buffed grill's Dpm and nerfed its alpha dmg.
But they didn't thought about the WT and Rhm.
Both of them got nerf on both Dpm and alpha dmg.
I am so sad my rhm is getting handicaped by WG.
I want them to buff the Dpm for the 12.8mm on the rhm

[queen geyser]

THATS HESH BRO its HE with more pen ITS HESH, ITS THE HESH GUN THAT IS SUPER TO USE; YES U DO EVERYTHING RIGHT BUT ITS HESH HESHHSHSHS

[solid sequoia]

That’s not HEAT lmao

[knotty plover]

@queen geyser @solid sequoia bro (i have this gun at tier 9)

Below: no because this gun has more dps with heat, for tier 9 anyway

[stone drum]

And I thought tungsten was dense.

[queen geyser]

bro thats the other gun, you use the HESH gun no?

OIMAGWOD IM LOSING IT

[solid sequoia]

If you were using that gun, you wouldn’t get splash damage from the prammo. HEAT doesn’t splash. HESH does.

[frosty orbit]

Honestly, i like the new dpm

[ebon glade]

Opinions on polish meds?

[remote sluice]

the foch 155 is actually rlly good now like dang the accuracy and shell speed buff helped the tank a lot

[deep parrot]

Who have good clan and can I join?

[sacred mural]

İ think cs63 is the worst medium tank at t10

[teal minnow]

Holy s### they made the vk72 fast

[pine sage]

interesting name lmao

[small herald]

Fast??

[gleaming ether]

@knotty plover u are using the hesh gun for sure if u have the same one on 7/1

[queen geyser]

because of slowmode its sometimes weird to read, since u most of the time edit your message to respond

[fathom rain]

Nah VK 72 still slow af ngl
And armor is mid

[unique scaffold]

Did the easteregg work for anyone in the practice room or something? The sand worm should actually work

[frosty orbit]

At least good DPM now

[wind flame]

I think there must be some problems on Vickers CR. It alpha dmg was lowered to 300 but the reloading time remains the same, causing its DPM only slightly above 2400. @bold dagger

[bold dagger]

it was changed because it shares the same gun with the Vickers Light

tough luck for the Vickers CR

they didn’t feel like buffing the reload. same thing happened with the Rhm Borsig and WT auf Pz IV when the Grille’s alpha damage got nerfed

[twilit crystal]

peak wg, tier 9 tank with no alpha at 2400 dpm

[violet island]

lucky us wg gives patchnotes

[fickle tinsel]

has anyone played the is4 yet

[bold dagger]

i recommend not doing that for the next year

tank is ruined

to answer your question, i haven’t since the update today

[teal zealot]

Россия?

[unique scaffold]

Clearly this is English Channel

[wind flame]

Maybe we should advise WG to tune Vickers CR back only. I think it is a bug. It is beyond their original thought.

[bold dagger]

it’s definitely not a bug

it just sucks for the CR

it would make no sense for the same gun to have more alpha on the tier 9 than the tier 10

[fickle tinsel]

yeah im asking because somebody was absolutely dying on the hill that the is4 would be a great tank post update

they were hyping up the small "buffs" as if they were groundbreaking. Like the mobility buff would have it running with heaviums and the gun handling buff would give it leopard accuracy and the armor nerf wouldn't affect it at all because "you have to use gold either way" 🧠🧠

[bold dagger]

this can be avoided by WG not being weird and just leaving the alpha to correlate with the caliber correctly

[bold dagger]

hull armor is nearly useless now, the tank will have to play as a slow support tank now

[harsh ravine]

That somebody kept selling the gun buffs the IS-4 received as “significant”. Yeah, a minor gun handling buff and a 100+ DPM buff, very significant.

[clear shuttle]

it would of been somewhat significant if it kept alot of its armour

[fickle tinsel]

this guy lol.

[stone drum]

It made basically no difference.

However... AMX vs 257 AP...

[unique scaffold]

At 3 p.m. everything was working again with the clan chat. Now I'm "clanless" again, according to the display, how does it work? I also noticed that there are no tungsten shells on the new line I activated it on the 8th and had neither increased damage nor the usual red border that signals that you are dealing stronger hits

[remote sluice]

id argue that b4 this buff, the foch autoloader struggled with hitting shots cus low shell speed and sub par dispersion. both of those were buffed, so now the foch feels much more comfy to play to me. i still want the old foch back, but this is good

[solid sequoia]

Cope.

[shrewd crag]

Well they also nerfed the reload of Rhm's 12.8mm from 12.4 to 12.6/8s

[fickle tinsel]

sounds like you're the one coping with your favorite tank getting nuked 🥱

[unique scaffold]

Skill issue lol

[violet island]

where do you have that information from

[teal minnow]

Not because of any top speed or things like that
They gave it a new equipement that makes it turn and accelerate faster
Which is wild for something that weights 120 tons

[proud abyss]

What was the HP count of the IS-7 before the balance changes?

[odd night]

Bro i lobe the update. Every tank seems balanced except a few mistakes like is 4 but like vk 72 finally has a clear downside : the turret in the back and a clear weakness: side armor and none are too exaggerated and its more flexible than the other superheavies with the tungsten and special track its lovely without feeling unbeatable or devoid of cons its greatly done. Bravo wg !!! Bravo balance team !!! Great work !
And i own every researchable X tank and most prems for now its great im checking all chinese rn and they might have went a little too far for wz113g bit it was hard to balance after all

[clear shuttle]

2450 base
2597 or 2591 improved assembly (one of the 2 ive forgotten already)

[stone drum]

What the actual hell are you talking about? That's Literally me playing against myself to demonstrate the Buffed armour profile.

[lone sandal]

💀

[proud abyss]

B-c gun is still gonna be 2nd one better right?

[gleaming ether]

whats the most borderline op tier x now?

[remote sluice]

yes. the first gun is a meme

[fickle tinsel]

you told me I was wrong about the frontal armor being buffed lol

[remote sluice]

man vickers cr got completely butchered. 2.1k base dpm for a tier 9 light tank? might as well use the stock gun which has 2.7k base dpm 💀

[queen geyser]

yup F in the chat to that tank

[lunar cliff]

All i can say is wargaming can't release an update without messing up
And please, for god's sake don't call this a "rebalancing" up there
It's just re-overpowering and re-underpowering

[solid sequoia]

I didn’t even like the old IS-4 lol, the new one is way more fun

[queen geyser]

Actually WG said in their own video: "The Goal of all these changes is to let familiar tanks offer you new emotions and a novel gaming experience"
I think WG dosnt rly want to balance stuff

[remote sluice]

i think what wg meant by that is that they want to change the playstyle of the tanks to give them a whole new feel. but tbh some of their changes are straight up unnecessary nerfs. the vickers light could have gotten only the armor nerf, but for some reason the gun got nuked too, so now it’s just a very bad light tank. the sheridan is now blind, so im not rlly sure what wg wants it to be here. the grille is weird, does wg rlly want to turn it into a medium tank? (frontlining in it is quite fun w the improved reload rate tho).

[queen geyser]

I share your opinion on vickers

[violet island]

<@&481447501690568709>

[unique scaffold]

Why u pinging mods

[stable gulch]

Haha ch*ms so funny and cool. Using the gamer word whenever he can (for legal reasons, that is a joke)

[waxen meteor]

chemistry

[unique scaffold]

#giveIS-7topspeed50km/hback

[gleaming apex]

enfernno has been warned.

[lunar cliff]

It is clear they don't want to
But why they call this rebalancing?

[gleaming apex]

enfernno was muted.

[unique scaffold]

Oh.

[sturdy dock]

Rip to you guys the type 71 has the pen of a tier 9 japanese td so either wg will rebalance this update or there will be chaos🙃

[unique scaffold]

There’s already chaos over E-100’s damage buff.

And yes indeed increase pen of type 71

[exotic girder]

Facts, first game armor works great and its mobile and snappy gun. However these update teams seriously suck

[stone drum]

Thank God I was wrong. They changed their minds last second.

@sturdy dock it's fine tbh, since Type 71 now has pretty trash dpm.

[winter dagger]

Stb

[fickle tinsel]

I didn't realize the Sheridan got a view range nerf but tbh it needed it. You could take a med out of the fight for free by spotting them out of spawn and putting a shot into them

[remote sluice]

sure 280m is a lot, but 265m on a light tank is not good. 270m would do

[stone drum]

it has standard view range for mobile tanks.

[torn wadi]

they didnt give 50b the intraclip buff bruh

[remote sluice]

no more 2.5s intraclip 4 shell autoloaders please. the 50b is fine as it is rn (but with pre nerf armor)

[cobalt notch]

It was full clip reload buff

[real bison]

my brother in christ it still has 307m viewrange with optics and big food, not a big deal

[humble depot]

The British lights are well and truly dead now. A menial DPM increase for the loss of 14% of its original alpha and the mantlet armour for the Vickers? This wasn’t a rebalance, it was a slaughter.

[remote sluice]

hmm fair enuf i forgot that 265m is base view range

@humble depot u havent seen how messed up the vickers cr is. it lost 50 alpha but gained NO reload buffs

[torn wadi]

No reload buff on vickers cr is just really sad

[twilit crystal]

Yeah u aren't even getting 10% like one gets with heat. Just run rammer lol

[unique scaffold]

make cs 63 faster

[sturdy dock]

Because your ganna need that pen muhahahahah

[clever wind]

It has shell normalization tho breh... u don't need cali with 340 ap or whatever it is

[tranquil temple]

Did any other tanks get changed apart from the t10 in the update?

[clever wind]

Vickers CR got violated lol

[twilit crystal]

Is7 line and 121 line all got tungsten. Is8 should be nasty

[fair pebble]

I just got the IS7 pre update 🥳

[round sand]

WZ 113G FT is now a monster

[unique scaffold]

Fr

[glass sandal]

Type 71 pen is perfect bc is AP

[elfin wharf]

Still wondering why wargaming would change all of tier 10 in a single update. Like atleast split it so u can see how the tanks work on the field.

[winter dagger]

Because weegee

[thorny timber]

Just learn how to at least stand a chance against all the broken tanks at t10 currently,all that we can expect for is an another change in the meta tanks

[exotic gorge]

Fuuhh , amx m4 mle is still playeble now. Oh god thank you. And also T110E4 has a 2000 hp, instead of 1750 they made on test server (maybe by mistake). But Lewandowskiego dead

[golden bridge]

leopard is broken

[valid charm]

WarGaming, why oh why would you do such a thing to Vickers CR? Gun nerf, no reload buff. Seriously?

[fickle tinsel]

didn't the 60tp get buffed?

[zenith wigeon]

Ye the ho ri armor buff makes no difference to me

[exotic gorge]

252 APCR is… 60TP gun was already bad, but this penetration with APCR now (it lose so much penetration on the way)

[stone drum]

60tp was bad?????
Lmaoooo

[hidden drum]

yesterday the clan missions did not work, compensation would be polite

[fickle tinsel]

saying the gun was already bad is wild ngl

[exotic gorge]

Well... I didn't expect any other answer. There will always be such statements in defense, as if something needs this protection. Play now with 252 apcr and be happy guys.

[stone drum]

that one kid named "calibrated shells":

[exotic gorge]

the ability to inflict 105-125% damage in a short time would only slightly save the situation if the tank did not have terrible accuracy indicators, aiming, terribly low projectile speed, and now also ridiculous armor penetration with sub-caliber shells. Have you ever thought that it is precisely because of this behavior that developers then break some of your favorite tanks? They are trying to collect statistics, and you are trying to “defend the honor of your favorite tank” in specially designated chats in order to point out the problematic aspects of combat vehicles. I'm tired of trying to argue with anyone, let's everyone stay with their own opinion. The main thing is not to forget to stand up for your favorite tank in front of people asking for some kind of buff, otherwise “the tank will be dishonored.”

[autumn zodiac]

Uh

60 TP compensates for all those issues you listed by being highly mobile with good armor

AKA close the distance and none of those are a problem

Which it can do highly effectively

[fickle tinsel]

the old gun rolled in the 700s its not bad

[autumn zodiac]

Meanwhile I liked 4202 and they ruined the DPM gun

But yeah 60 TP is so bad now

[nimble zodiac]

Penetration loss over distance is not that impactful in Blitz. It's really the normlization cut from 5° to 2°

[queen geyser]

I completly understand your point, you just want 60TP to be better because u like to play it

This is perfectly fine but is nowhere near the topic of this channel, it has nothing to do with tank balancing at all and you cant even have a discussing about it because its just a personal opinion which differs from person to person

Im just glad the devs never listen to stuff like this

[proud abyss]

Wdym wasnt it a buff?
Also what will be a replacement for IS-4? Since 260 also got nerfed if i remember

[autumn zodiac]

Sarcasm my brother

And IS-4 doesn't need a replacement, it's not a crutch tank anymore

That's it's only difference

[dire pagoda]

why is4 is so bad now

[mystic gorge]

IS-4 changes were great quality of gameplay changes. The only reason people are complaining about the IS4 changes is because the tank doesn’t have absurd hull armor now that acts as a crutch for bad players who don’t know how to position themselves accordingly.

The tank is better than before

[exotic gorge]

I don't know who offended you so much, but...

first of all, “you can’t even have a discussion about it”, please look at the name of the chat. People may or may not agree with me, and that's absolutely fine. This is why there is such magic as “discussion”.

Secondly, the argument about whether I like or don’t like playing on any tank is a direct attempt to belittle my statements instead of a normal logical answer. The people with whom I spoke above mentioned logical arguments in favor of the strength of the tank and we had a conversation, and you drew attention to my individual interests, which has nothing to do with our discussion. I could also say that you are against it “just because you don’t like this tank,” but I won’t do that. Because it doesn't make sense.

There is no need to try to belittle someone’s opinion, if you have nothing to answer, you can just skip it.

And this applies to all tanks. Look, some people love the new version of the IS-4, while others think it has become worse. And if you are offended by the difference in people’s opinions, then I am certainly the last person on earth who should take the rap because of your irritation.

[dire pagoda]

better than before hahahah, som low pen tank pen him up front even if angeled now, and whole point of good armor sidescrap etc lost point

[queen geyser]

I know who offended me

[exotic gorge]

Well, I’am sorry, if that was me. I didn’t want to. I just expressed my opinion about a specific tank in this chat, created by the developers specifically for this purpose. For which I am grateful to them. And i’am not asking them to believe only my opinion, but it’s always better to hear all opinions, right? You and I both want to make the game better because we enjoy spending time in it)))

[icy furnace]

XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
@exotic gorge worst tier10, maybe 2nd worst after vickers

[exotic gorge]

Who managed to ride on TVP50/51, what are your feelings? I have it, but I haven’t rolled it out yet after the update

[twilit crystal]

just play batchat

[queen geyser]

Ok because u are super sweet, like actually im gonna respond normally, I said you cant even have a discussion about it because of most people do here is they "request" buffs or a complain about the Tank just because they like it

I personally think that this channel topic is "tank balancing" so basically balancing out Tanks that we one day maybe live in a world where every Tank is fine to play and there is no too Strong tanks and no too bad tanks

U ofc can have a discussion about if the 60Tp should have better standart pen, or why it has "aiming, terrible low projective speed, accuary indicators" but just saying "This is bad and I like this tank so wg should buff it" dosnt rly get us anywhere

You need to ask yourself what are the strengts of the tank, what are the parameters compared to other tanks of that tank class, playstyle, alpha dpm etc whatever u Want to sort it and how does the community Perform with it

Well ofc we dont have statistics about this Patch because its very new but last patch 60TP was perfectly fine and I would say even too good especially for newer players who performed pretty good for low effort, and if u look at the changes now, u see that it got more then it lost by far

Also Heavy meta was thing for alot of time, cant make myself complain about heavy pen when mediums are still capped on 300 prammo for whatever reason

[queen geyser]

Feels actually balanced, if u want a medium clipper that is pretty good at clipping out tanks even at higher range then this is the thing togo

I rly like that it feels like a good option to go if u want to play like that instead off: its so good Just play it everygame its autowin

[twilit crystal]

Nah man it just makes sense to play the batchat at this point, better gun handling, better camo, better view range

[exotic gorge]

Thanks for the answer. I'm not one of the players who likes the 60TP Tank. I started to have a difficult relationship with this tank, and I am 100% sure that there are a colossal number of players who dealt with the tank much better than me. But I express specifically my personal opinion, and alone it naturally does not claim to be objective. I look at the damage numbers, I look at the armor, I see the strengths of the tank. And i remember it has realy good speed. However, the strong armor of the tank faces a big problem, for example, hiding a strip of sections is much more difficult than hiding the lower armor plate on other tanks, the tank still has many gray areas in the front that violate the integrity of the armor. And it turns out that against a skilled player at 60TP the armor remains uncared for. Regarding all this: I fully understand that accuracy and power stabilization are the price to pay for high damage. However, there is another problem. When the tank is completely withdrawn, that is, you have finally taken aim, this is generally possible, the spread of worlds inside the circle still remains excessive, which in a conflict with poor armor penetration and rapid ricochet (APCR) creates a good rate of missed damage. Of course, this may not be enough to make the tank bad, but personally, because of the above, I never liked it anyway. I like to play tanks with damage around 400, with other increased stats. Therefore, I ask you not to pay attention to my words from the point of view of “I like the tank.” But yes, I am aware that most likely the vast majority of people write in the chat asking to strengthen their favorite tank. I can't argue here. However, you shouldn’t include everyone at once. As for my favorite tanks, they are now very strong, so an upgrade is certainly not required, it’s even possible they are overpower now.

And my english is really being bad… Iam using translate so many times and i hope you can understand me.

[queen geyser]

And 0 gundepression and worse intraclip and Clip damage

Also im insure if the gunhandling is rly better gotta check rly quick, yea dispersion on movement is worse for tvp but it has better aimtime so idk about that

But yea I would probably Play the BC over it tbh, dosnt mean the tvp is unplayable tho

[exotic gorge]

Oh thanks. Ill try it tomorrow)) And yeah BC is so powerful now, i mean feels like)

[queen geyser]

Yea BC also worked well for me
I mostly tried out E5 and Is8 (has tungsten now) E5 feels super nice to play, hope it stays Like that for a time

[exotic gorge]

+1. T110E5 ls really nice to play now. I hope too. Its good balanced now i believe. Easy to realise, also easy to die doing wrong things because of armor rebalance. Of soviet ones i have only Object 907, and i love it. Its new in my hangar. I played just 10-20 battles before 10.3, and today i saw how good it became. But armor is gun. Some people says it didnt has an armor before, but in the battle i hit a bunch of shells.

[austere trout]

Thanks to the developers for completely ending Ho-RI 3. The tank is now slow and vulnerable to penetration by any tier IX even on the upper hull. Very good balance increasing armor that still continues to be penetrated easily and is much slower than before the patch...

[ebon lynx]

?
Ho-Ri III got armor buffs.

[unique scaffold]

Just played 12 battles today on it. 75% wr 2900+avg 2800wn8. It's still fun tank

[austere trout]

and massive mobility nerfs

[stark sky]

It got neft in hull turn rate but got buff in terrain resistance instead plus massive armor buff :v

[rapid basin]

RIP mino nerfs

[exotic girder]

Mino is still broken hull down

[icy furnace]

mino was never broken

[rapid basin]

Use skill to pen

[exotic girder]

Hatch is extremely small and troll sure the hull can good thru but the turret ja basically unpennable by most heavies, mediums and lights

[rapid basin]

Oh really? Also it isint troll ans most tanks are OP hull down

[fading crescent]

i want to enjoy the cs-63 but its just so mid not outstanding in anything at all avg speed avg gun avg alpha meh armor. just nothing good about it that would make me want to play it over the other meds yeah the tungsten isnt even that useful i dont run it bc its just not that practical. it would be cool if they gave it like insane speed or something like wot pc. just make it go like light tank speeds that would be a cool unigue thing about it

[ancient rampart]

Only thing it has is Tungsten and that's not even unique to a tier 10 med

[winter dagger]

average pen

[fading crescent]

not just avg pen below avg pen

[winter dagger]

The last tank releases after type 71 have been stupidly mediocre

[solid sequoia]

It’s actually above average lol

[restive tundra]

Did the T92E1 get nerfed? It feels slower and less responsive.

[clear shuttle]

its all right

[waxen osprey]

Mauschen gets 2723 HP now???
Bruh t34-2 gets tungsten?
And yagtiger now has 5.5k dlm with adrenalin and tungsten

[twilit crystal]

below average in all categories

[void siren]

Mauschen gets 2688 if you don’t sacrifice all usability
Jagdtiger is death

Thats fine tho

[fading crescent]

does jagtiger get tungsten to?

[void siren]

Yes.
Enjoy.

[thorn tartan]

Rip IS-4.......

[granite flint]

is4 is garbage now, its fragile and cant do what he was supposed to do, to the trash it goes now

[unique scaffold]

The famous IS4 is ruined by WG.. RIP IS4

[wicked quest]

So glad one less crutch heavy exists

[granite pebble]

260 Changes:

[lone sandal]

260 isn't a crutch lol
and those that are complaining about the is4 changes, PLEASE use the tank for at least 20 games before saying anything about it

[granite pebble]

I mean I will say that the changes they did to it made it a pretty uh... "The minimum thought required now is to hide my lower plate to do do decent" type tank now

Like sure it still has a higher skill ceiling, but the skill floor is substantially lower

[lone sandal]

well yeah the 260 changes are quite frankly hot garbage but its lower plate is too big for it to be a crutch, i still would've preferred a gun and mobility buff over an is7 upper plate

[granite pebble]

Oh I would've too, it upset me to see what they did to it

[lone sandal]

i was so ready to buy the 260 but then the patch notes dropped and luckily i didn't impulse buy, this was such a missed opportunity to make a really enjoyable mobile heavy with a great gun

[random pendant]

Noticing a huge amount of STB’s and 60TP’s now way more than before so I guess we all know who got the best buffs

[thorny timber]

183 is just getting closer and closer to one shotting light armored tanks as we speak

[frank bone]

The gun isnt the problem, it has APCR as standard rounds.

[lone sandal]

💀💀no wayy what

[fair pebble]

Did they buff the type 71??? I can’t pen it’s lower plate with the IS7 standard round

[nimble zodiac]

It’s just that you shot it at an autoricochet angle, and this has been the case since release

Hand me the replay if you want

[fair pebble]

It was looking right at me, flat ground, no way it was angled. It’s armor is just OP I guess

[nimble zodiac]

Was it the upper side of the lower plate? I can see the exact shot if you give me the replay file

[exotic girder]

Update over all is pretty poor no changes are really good besides the AMX-30 getting dpm, i cant think of another tank that is more balanced now after the update

[clear shuttle]

i think the badger is pretty balanced now

[twin egret]

"let's nerf the skill gun"

[humble path]

Nerf .. is 7

[feral scroll]

Anyone else notice they conveniently forgot to add the voting reactions to the obviously unbalanced nerfs for IS-7?

“Whoops just so happened to forget the voting for one of the most tank ruining changes in the update still won’t add it because we don’t care”

[odd night]

60tp very good now
Kpfz50t should have gotten 350 ap damage instead of tungsten i think tungsten on 340 feels weird and very stressful like u wont be using it more than once twice if 30% faster consumable reload (thrice maybe if purple amplifier too) but its still bery stressful for a little use. Sadly still the worst german med.

[lethal fox]

Lmao the IS4 is ez food for my IS7 now

[plush comet]

Is4 really needs a buff

[winged ridge]

what kind?

[plush comet]

Armor, easier to pen than some medium tanks

[rocky maple]

Is4 worst tank now. Low Hp, joke armor

[plush comet]

It also very slow, bullying is4 is very easy in medium tanks

[iron hearth]

T62a is a better is4 🥲

[plush comet]

Facts

[rocky maple]

Bad update. Even worse unbalanced game then before. Every game lasts less than 2 minutes.

[lethal fox]

Yes, just got my highest damage in my account with the 60tp (6400 dmg, not super pro but I aint one anyway)
and an ace. Honestly losing a few mm of pen and a second of reload for 30 more damage is worth it, because higher rolls make it punch so much harder. And I no longer deal below 500 damage with low rolls so thats very welcome 😄

[odd night]

Yes and comparatively better with tungsten.

@rocky maple well thats the big problem now everything has too much dpm they should increase hp for everything haha

[lone sandal]

they're giving tanks more dpm to counteract the fact that heavies have too much hp

[remote sluice]

i just got the vk 90 out of a collect em all box and why on earth does it have combat stab? i mean fine it can keep the c-stab if the armor wasnt this good. u gotta trade the armor for the gun, like on the 215b, but this has both good armor and good gun?

[stuck acorn]

As boring as a line can get. It brought nothing new to the game. It's just yet another tank aiming for category of a versatile med. And as it has literally nothing new going for it, it just gets outclassed staright from the start and nobody cares about these tanks.

In fact before OT i and many people i know were more interested in T6 than T10, hoping it would become fun troll tank, but they had to ruin even that. Now i just couldn't really care less about this line

This line had a potential of becoming very unique if it had it's PC mechanic, but without it, it seems to be the most bland and boring line in game at the moment

It can be perfectly seen even on this channel. Usually you would have multiple people discussing newly released lines for hours here, but in this case nobody even bothers to respond if somebody tries to make a statement about it.

Great Job WG, just as i wondered if it's possible to release more forgettable line than VZ you overcame my expectations.

[clear shuttle]

dw guys pray they re introduce the 180mm for the bz when it comes

[stuck acorn]

@clear shuttle It would be very unique indeed with it's reliance on splash damage in order to damage more armored targets, but there is absolutely no way they are going to implement it.

I would love this tank if it had like 1300-1400 damage on it's low pen HE (maybe like 60-70 pen) and like 900 on 200 pen HE with smth like 22-25s of reload. But again i doubt it will ever come to the game

There is no way they will implement something fun for once, especially if it's something this controversial. Even if it would work as it's own niche, and i don't feel like it would be even close to being as toxic as 183 if balanced properly

@lethal fox These are 2 very different cases. BZ 180mm is equipped with HE only, that means it needs to rely on splash in order to damage targets with more than 200mm of armor. That's what balances it out. Maus 170mm would be able to go through basically anything frontally and slam it for 800. I don't think it's a good addition to the game

[lethal fox]

Oh I think it'll be fun to give the Maus a 170 mm gun 🧌

[clear shuttle]

if it got cancelled in pc it isnt coming to blitz so yeah

theres an extremely slim chance but i heavily doubt it

[humble depot]

Even if they don’t, I really hope WG manages to make that line interesting. Something along the lines of an accurate, high alpha, but really low DPM heavium would be really interesting if they could balance it correctly.

[stuck acorn]

Well, we need to see. I just hope they won't make it yet another absolute failure like they did with nearly all recent lines

Type was broken and boring, chinese lights were just bad, VZ i forgot even exists, CS is even worse in this regard, not to even mention this absolutely cancerous abomination called minotauro.

I think the last actually good line added into the game was T-100 LT and that was over a year ago

[remote sluice]

i mean they could put the normal mode speed of the cs 63 at like 50km/h and 65km/h for boost mode speed, hell even 70km/h for boost mode, but 65 seems more balanced. if the boost mode speed is 65km/h then the gun should be as derpy as 183’s gun, while if the speed is 70km/h then it can be like on pc. give it 2s switch time like on pc. there we go, a new tank w a funny gimmick

now i pray to god the BZ-75 line will have the rocket mode. even if not, give it 35km/h and super speed boost and it’ll be good. if not the super speed boost then reintroduce the 180mm gun that was scrapped from pc. there are many ways to make a tank line unique but not broken.

@humble depot that is actually an interesting concept. a heavium line w bad armor, high top speed and a huge gun (152mm on the BZ-75) that has high alpha, pin point accuracy and abysmal dpm. that would sound interesting

[odd night]

Id say it is kinda bad in the open and open in the city like its so strong in cities thats its boring to play in the wild haha but yeah very strong defo

[slender latch]

Did VZ 55 actually get that irrelevant?

[humble depot]

Without the Autoloaders, the entire line has been irrelevant. I love the tank, but there’s a reason you can get an ace on 1600 damage.

[small crane]

Vz 55 is so toxic in wot pc because its autoloaders
Also wotb no need to replicate any single details and mechanic from wot pc 🙄

[slender latch]

Oof and I thought I was missing out for not grinding the line at least that's good.

[stuck acorn]

It's not really bad or irrelevant, it's just boring. Nobody cares about this line

[humble depot]

I never said they needed to do it (we have the Yohs already), but that is the reason people don’t play them. The autoloader was the main attraction in PC, and most hoped it would carry over to Blitz.

[slender latch]

Still tho they managed to release a balanced tank albeit boring so they at least did that.

[thorny timber]

Vz55 line is underrated as hell, people don't know that it can literally go toe to toe with the is7 line.

[violet island]

Maus would get absolutely destroyed by high caliber he guns with the old he mechanic that is currently in blitz cause almost every shot into the turret front would be a fire

[small crane]

Like i said earlier autoloader is toxic in general

And look how bad wargaming balancing the whole tier X