tank-balance-discussion

[fickle shoal]

44 is rather specific ngl

and @stone drum the is7 is .. actually armored, and it is faster, (and t10 duh ik) only reason i see the kpz being slowwer is when it first came out if it was fast and all the gimmicky premiums and tech tree tanks didn't exist it would've been overpowered, giving it mobility buff without sacrificing gun stats would considerably help it against powercreep

[rigid oyster]

I’m near future all tank gasta an hull down nightmare

[stone drum]

When it first came out it was kinda of unimpressive, but since then it has been repeatedly Buffed to have potentially one of the most potent guns in the tier.

[fickle shoal]

yeah i remember a few years ago they had a string of buffs for it

[unique scaffold]

KPZ got buffed?

[fickle shoal]

a long while ago, not anytime recent

[unique scaffold]

Now you can tell that the 60tp is becoming a better e-100 at all aspects

[grizzled granite]

Buff the 60Tp Wargaming!!

[violet oar]

buff blackprince 3.1 reload time>>2.8 reload time
or buff kv1's 57mm gun 5 sec>>2.9 sec

[ancient rampart]

But why

[keen dew]

kv1 dosent even have a 57mm

[sweet skiff]

balanced

[grizzled granite]

Buff the 60tp

[ancient rampart]

It’s already extremely strong

It’s getting rebalanced next update

[grizzled granite]

Bro no It needs some buff

[sweet skiff]

they should buff the lower plate to 420mm, it’s too weak. also buff the accuracy and aiming time to 0.288 and 2.4

[grizzled granite]

Indeed 60Tp needed to Buff the accuracy/aiming and The lower plate

[silver mauve]

It good already mate

[grizzled granite]

It need some buff on Accuracy aiming time and the lower plate

[ancient rampart]

No it doesn’t

[grizzled granite]

Bruh It needs it 60Tp need that buff

[wicked quest]

Get better

[grizzled granite]

Lol get better while your tank is not that better?

[wicked quest]

That sentence does not make sense

[grizzled granite]

I'm just saying 60tp needs a Buff on its accuracy and aiming time it's terrible

[clear shuttle]

yeah bro i wonder why its terrible

[lone sandal]

lower plate?? I'd love to know why you think the lower plate needs a buff

[solid sequoia]

So you want the tank to be broken? Got it.

[grizzled granite]

Imagine Driving 60tp and Fire lmao It has A terrible accuracy and aiming time🤦

I love the tank but Bruh Accuracy and aiming time Its not good

[solid sequoia]

Just sit still lmao, 60TP has insane armor, enough for it to aim in

[clear shuttle]

he wants it to have 140 and leo levels of accuracy

[ornate warren]

💀

[grizzled granite]

Lmao

[forest ridge]

Learn how to aim

[ancient rampart]

My dude it’s one of the best tanks in the game

It does not need buffs

[twin egret]

The guy is obviously trolling bruh 💀

[grizzled granite]

Lmao bro do you think that I don't know how to lmao Bro I know how to aim it's just the tank Has terrible aim and accuracy even veteran player Says 60tp accuracy and aim Has terrible

[sweet skiff]

where’s your source that a veteran player thinks its accuracy is trash?

[wicked quest]

It is subpar accuracy but necessary for how stupid it’s armor is

[grizzled granite]

Check it on the Reddit most veteran said 🤏 That 60tp accuracy and aiming are the worse

Check it for your self then 👍

[frank bone]

Ye but it dont need better gun handling, u have troll armour, insane reverse speed, and very good alpha. And thats why 60tp has terrible gun handling and aim time. Cause its "balancing reasons". If u buff the aim time and gun handling u will get a completely broken tank

[sweet skiff]

and besides, it makes sense why the 60tp’s accuracy would be like that since it’s a 152mm gun

[wooden lynx]

The 60tp is already pretty busted at it's current state, and it's even getting more busted in 10.3.

Not to mention it will be hitting harder and gets to keep tungsten along with the aiming time being improved by 0.8s

[silent crown]

I very much agree, aiming time isn't a problem cause you're not hitting every 4-5 seconds or so to be able to aim fast, 14 seconds is more than enough to aim and slap something for 700+ with tungsten

[lone sandal]

you're missing the point here
yes it does have bad accuracy, no way a tank has downsides, but it also has tungsten has alpha has insane turret armour has an obnoxious lower lower plate has decent speed has hp

[sonic gyro]

I think the tiger 2 should get 300 damage

[uneven turtle]

There’s a good way to balance auto loaders

I’ll go about it as I edit the message

WG can increase shell intra clip universally to 5 or 6 seconds while changing all clips to 4 shells. (There are a few exceptions)

How this would balance them I will slowly explain

If you think about it right now auto loaders only take one shot for themselves to deliver close to half Hp for most tanks

This balancing would kill their ability to just poke and ruin someone’s day and yet still stay deadly if not cautious

Tank are given time to focus on the auto loader if they choose to be a sitting duck for their clip but in a 1 on 1 situation, it allows single shot tanks to deliver 1 or 2 shots by the time the auto loader completes its drum.

Auto loaders are meant to deliver shots and take less damage at the same time but right now that is a serious issue with how fast in can deliver especially when they are using super consumables.

This balancing would prevent spammers from thinking they can just poke 2-4 seconds and take away at least 850 hp while only taking less than a fraction about their hp away

[ember mountain]

or make their after shot dispersion as big as a 183 so they would have to close in which makes them easier to kill

[uneven turtle]

This would make their dpm more stable when loaded compared to single shots

Any takes on this?

[unique scaffold]

Sounds like you want to take the fun out of playing autoloaders.

[uneven turtle]

Sounds like u wanna keep the auto loaders unbalanced

[primal sundial]

I think sub 2 sec intraclip is pretty excessive except for low alpha tanks. amx 13 57 for example should have a very fast inter clip. but the yoh tanks, tvp etc should not have such quick inter clip times. I don't think you can go past 3 seconds though without removing a lot of the purpose for having them

[uneven turtle]

Rn the intra clips for tanks I haven’t specified which should get the longer intra clip debuffs but this is a general suggestion

[clear shuttle]

i mean, t57 and 50B were fairly fine before 9.1 (as far as i remember i could be very wrong) same with the tvp
a way i can see to help “re balance” auto reloaders is to just remove the clip boost all together or make it take less % off the intra clip reload as well as maybe(?) increasing the overall reload or intra clip of some of them

all tho what you mentioned can be a good way to re balance auto loaders, i do agree with sparticus that it pretty much takes the fun out of auto loaders + “uniqueness” of them, as the whole point of auto loaders is to dump out damage in a short period of time while having a long reload, thus giving it “exposure” time.

i also agree with technogore
all though if something, for example the tvp has a 2 second intra clip reload, then it should have downsides eg bad after shot dispersion or something (like i think it used to have?)

idk those are my thoughts

[unique scaffold]

Perception of balance ≠ balance

[uneven turtle]

Tanks shouldn’t be exceptionally op to be played more cus of it being fun, moreover how is the reindeer mentality of going into opponents line of sight clicking 3-4 times every 2 seconds then retreating fun. Your perception of fun is very strange although that’s majority of player base so what can I say.

There’s 0 tacticality when it comes to auto loaders. You don’t have to think about the consequences you just poke

[unique scaffold]

Okay

[primal sundial]

so I assume all your auto loaders are super unicum stats? I think showpc has the right idea with removing the intraclip consumable

[uneven turtle]

Exposure time doesn’t matter when you’re doing double AL platoon or when u have teammates around u.

@primal sundial super unicum determines a tank’s performance for u ig

[clear shuttle]

people play auto loaders for the damage output possible in a short amount of time, with again, downsides such as a long clip reload.
making the intra clip for all of the clippers 5-6 would pretty much near-kill auto loaders.

why play a t57 if the 113 or e6 exists
why play a bat chat if the post 10.3 132-1 exists
why play a tvp when many other mediums with similar alpha have similar reloads

you get my point and i agree clipper toons can be annoying and clippers are pretty toxic in their current state, but in conclusion imo there are much better ways to re balance auto reloaders while keeping their “playstyle” unique without making the intra clip 5-6 seconds for every auto loader

[uneven turtle]

How about this, as I’ve said with four shots for around every 2 shots from auto loaders can shot back once instead of taking only one shot and giving 3 shots. So, the balance idea is auto loader tanks essentially give a short term faster reload time instead of a auto cannon

@clear shuttle as long as AL keep their playstyle their poking ability will always be more OP(by a large margin)

@primal sundial in fact yes. My top damage is 6952 in t57 in which I hate

[clear shuttle]

so essentially they turn into single shots with a more cracked adrenaline as a passive/mechanic/consumable?

[primal sundial]

don't be disingenuous. You are saying they are flat out op, and if that is the case even someone like you should be able to pull out fantastic stats with those tanks right? I think quite a few of the autoloaders are currently overtuned, but the removal of the intraclip consumable would fix most the issues.

A single stat is statistically irrelevant btw

[unique scaffold]

The removal of tank specific consumables in general would be a huge step in the right direction.

[uneven turtle]

Yes but all super consumables deserves to be removed. Even if that is removed auto loaders have always been a big issue as soon as 4 shots like amx and tvp and quick clips like t57 started existing

@humble depot abit longer is still fast. Shaving off 1.4 seconds total intra clip is still considerably little if u can dump in 4.5-5 seconds

@primal sundial a single stat when none of my single shots can come close to. Oddly funny since only one of my tanks can just throw out damage like flowers on a wedding(weird reference)

[clear shuttle]

you can do stuff like reducing the after shot dispersion, dispersion, OTM disp, aim time, maybe even other tank stats that arent the gun to re balance auto loaders without touching the auto loader mechanism its self
as i previously mentioned removing the clip boost consumable would be an ideal thing to do

i wasent active or cared enough back when the tvp was pre 9.1, but i do know enough that it wasent nearly as popular as it is now

[humble depot]

Remove superconsumables and make intraclip times a bit longer. Then autoloaders would be fine.

[primal sundial]

please stop using edits to avoid the slow mode timer

[past vale]

Nah autoloaders are broken in Blitz but that is due to a team size issue, in WoT they have tanks with 6 shells and no one calls them broken because they pay with massive reloads and one tank out doesn't mean a loss in a 15 sized team, for example the Foch 155 has a 2250 HP burst but no one minds it as it has to reload for 40 seconds. In Blitz such bursts would be broken but if you leave smallers clips you have the issue that their reloads have to get faster and then they have smaller windows to get rushed. They also start 1v1s with full clips so rushing them directly is a bad idea, and if they have no clips then enjoy your 1.2k clip to the face while you deal 600 while they were reloading (assuming you continuously shot them as they started to reload). Their DPM has to be calculated differently if they start the exchange with a loaded clip.

Also "but muh exposure time" is copium, every single tank has to expose itself and good players neglect the risk entirely by analyzing enemy reloads and positioning. Autoloaders either gotta pay on DPM or long intershell times.

No one complains about the Lorraine 40t burst because it is hard to land all shells, IN FACT, no one complained about pre buff TVP because it actually took skill to dump your entire clip, not because of "muh exposure time" but because the clip required your enemy to be exposed for longer. WG did an interesting job with the Foch 155, it has a nice burst but no one calls it broken because it has to sit for 3.75s and the DPM is very mid for a TD. Balanced autoloaders can exist but they gotta pay a considerable price for having such bursts (The AMX 50 line, Minotauro and Kran comes to mind)

Look at strong autoloaders, they either have crazy DPM (current T57, tier X 105mm Yoh) or fast intershells (Yoh's 120mm guns, T-77, TVP) for their burst with little downsides, some of them are overloaded with stats like the TVP having a laser gun with 20kmh reverse and autobounce armor on hulldown angles.

[uneven turtle]

Kind of my point

[drowsy plaza]

Autoloaders as a whole aren’t broken in Blitz. Some definitely are, but as a whole they aren’t. WG’s major fail on a lot of tanks (not specifically just autoloaders or auto-reloaders) is not properly limiting the pro’s and con’s of tanks to actually balance them.

[modern heart]

i disagree^ they've generally been over buffed as a whole, i would argue the opposite: some definitely aren't broken, but as a whole they are

[twilit crystal]

Hey wg why does open test always get delayed ?

[nimble zodiac]

Autoloaders as a concept isn’t broken in Blitz. They can easily be balanced

[modern heart]

autoloaders weren't always broken, but recent changes have made them much too strong

[lone sandal]

intraclip boost super consumable should not have been added in the first place

[honest ingot]

And also spall liner for Bat-Chat

[stone drum]

In other words you would basically kill every single autoloader in-game without any form or compensation... cool...

At 6 seconds you might as well remove the autoloader on 50b as that is its actual reload.

[humble depot]

I believe I’ve said this before and I will say it again:

The solution to OP tanks is not to kill those tanks, but to limit the aspects that make them so OP. The Smasher needs only a slight reload nerf and a penetration nerf. The Badger needs a mobility nerf. The STRV K needed a DPM nerf.

Autoloaders should see a reduction to their intraclip, but not to then point that they become useless. Limiting them to a 6-second intraclip gives them about as much reload speed as Leopard 1 or T-62A, but without something like a Interclip buff and other stat improvements, it is not a good way to balance them.

Autoloaders are supposed to have unique gameplay roles. They’re meant to put out damage quickly and use their teammates for cover. A good idea for nerfing them (at least at Tier X) is to give their Intraclips a range between 2-3 seconds. That would keep them from completely obliterating a tank while still being capable to putting out lots of damage quickly.

As for platoons of them: That can happen with any tank! What’s next? Nerfing the reloads of high alpha tanks? Reducing alpha on high DPM tanks? Removing LT mobility? MT versatility? Heavy tank armour (That actually should happen a bit)? TD penetration?

[stone drum]

You realize autoloaders have clips to make them balanced in-game? Otherwise they would just be straight up better single-shots with horrendous ammo capacity.

@twilit crystal 700 for 930 isn't a great trade when you have less hp & a less reliable gun. If anything that's the definition of a fair trade in an autoloader context.

[twilit crystal]

the current state bc is already kinda stupid, most 350 alpha meds gets 2 shots in which means its 700 for 930, going to be much better at 1050 for 700

[unique scaffold]

In Batchat it's best to only dump two shells. You trade 620 and take 310-350.

[chrome rampart]

developer do special camo for KV5.

[twilit crystal]

just feels sorta mid. The new bc with 1050 is much better now, if you can get the early jump its 1050 for 350 which is solid. 1050 is also a lot more reliable for 2 clipping enemy meds, currently 2 clips is 1860 and most meds usually have 1900 to 2k hp meaning a 2 clip is quite rare. Now its going to be solid, You dump your first mag in 4 seconds, reload for 16 seconds and finish them off in 6 more seconds for a total of 26 seconds, i can't wait for camo abuse as well, its going to make all the tvp whiners wish the tvp came back, Imagine getting spotted at 310 meters

[stone drum]

Just remove clip booster & spall liner and it would be fine.

[ember mountain]

so what your saying is the Batchat is the superior Autoloader to annoy tier 10 now.

wonderful, better than some fictional jumbo T-34

[humble depot]

What? Do you mean the very real TVP?

[twilit crystal]

Can't wait to farm dumb nub heavies for 1050 as they got spotted at 285 meters while I run a camo net and they dont spot me till like 230

[nimble zodiac]

Tryna tell me it’s the light tank’s turn to camp in the bush?

[wispy cipher]

Play with the map to counter autoloaders and wait the autoloaders getting spotted before taking a push

[nimble zodiac]

Because the map totally stops them from rushing into me and shooting off their clip

[wispy cipher]

Use the map to peek a boo and try to get one teammates to support u if the dude try to rush you

[nimble zodiac]

That's not the point. An autoloader that can just rush and get a massive damage clip out with zero neural responses is just toxic, even if the person doing it gets killed immediately afterwards

[native folio]

KV-5 has way too much armor

[wispy cipher]

Dont let him rush you ? Track him ect to save few seconds and try to back and get a save spot

[nimble zodiac]

Oh? Just don't let it happen? Just win the game? With that kind of reasoning, I'll be unstoppable

Seriously, there's nothing you can do to stop them unless you got an ammo rack on them or if they took the worst route possible to get to you

[wispy cipher]

No offense but maybe skill issue try to improve ur gameplay, ur game vision and map awareness

[stone drum]

So Lorraine 40t is toxic? Lol.

I seriously doubt their is much that can be done to stop yoloers without assembling a firing squad.

@void siren that would be intelligent, but as of now the autoloader is just the ammorack also Wargaming doesn't seem to know the location of the autoloader.

[void siren]

they could always model the autoloader and make it a damageable module

[wispy cipher]

Autoloaders are fine right now

[drowsy plaza]

That’s an equally poor take as those saying they are all broken. The biggest issue occurred when WG started them fully loaded. Now for tanks like the Carro it meant they didn’t need to spend the first 52 seconds not shooting, but on some maps the instant load feature has made autoloaders/autoreloaders extremely dangerous early on. If you can get early damage and kills, it starts the ruthless domino of HPvDPM that is hard to tip back.

[wispy cipher]

Yes but u are dumb if u take -1200 hp in the first 30 seconds into battle

[void siren]

autoloaders are countered by killsquads

killsquads are countered by autoloader killsquads

[stone drum]

Honestly the only thing I think could really solve the issue is stopping the general trend of autoloaders clipping even faster.
I would say their should be a hard cap of 2.0 - 2.5s for any autoloader at tier 8 & above.

@nimble zodiac personally I will never understand the yololoader playstyle, I'm much too use to the rather conservative PC playstyle.

Solution: ban everyone from playing autoloaders except me

[nimble zodiac]

I mean, if you play the yololoader playstyle, yeah.

Of course, because it actually takes a hot second to dump out a moderate clip, players are discouraged from that behavior. TVP needs that same restriction

@wispy cipher And do what? Avoid the autoloader? Have the entire team avoid the nimble tank that can outmaneuver most of them? You’re just being unrealistic

[void siren]

send a downtiered light at them and nuke them from a distance - works every time

clearly a strategy for every team

[nimble zodiac]

Literally pretending that if I ignore the TVP, it won’t try to clip me. What kind of mentality produces these arguments?

There is literally NOTHING anyone can do on the team to consistently prevent a TVP rushing one of the teammates and dumping a clip. I mean, could you imagine if TVP not only had that, but could take a few allies with him to cover him for the reload too?

I don’t care about the consequences. The playstyle is toxic

[wispy cipher]

I just kill the autoloaders and continue the push

[winged barn]

Its your fault you got yoloed at. You clearly need to sit in spawn more.
You can even play a td to justify it 🙂

[nimble zodiac]

When the TD hater tells you to sit in spawn

[keen dew]

not even close

[void siren]

when it sidescrapes you want to leave reality
@native folio has never fought a tiger ii

[native folio]

ITS FRONTAL

[keen dew]

prammo

just use a t34 with cali and butter it

[stone drum]

Play a tier 7 or 8 light and comeback and say that again.

[void siren]

tier 8 lights have high prammo pen
tier 7 lights deserve to suffer

[stone drum]

Well to be fair Lorraine is mostly limited by its somewhat terrible gun. bad handling + aimtime is a bad combo.

@void siren that doesn't solve the issue of its insane side armour.

[chilly crane]

[void siren]

That’s not an issue, that’s a feature!

(Butter the turret)

[ornate shuttle]

minotauro is so trash and y all nerfing it in 10.3? lmao

[stone drum]

Lol, bethesda momment.
It's kinda crazy because top tier tanks see it as paper but bottom tier tanks struggle to pen the sides, lol.

[void siren]

The sides are unironically the strongest piece of armor the tank has when used right

But the 220mm flat plate on the entire turret lets the kv-5 down

[stone drum]

Give me a blowtorch & 25 minutes & I could fix that.

The armour profile is certainly weird.

@void siren
I would just take 20mm of the sides and weld that onto the turret.

[void siren]

I mean, thats why it’s a tier 8

(What are they storing in the giant turret?)

[nimble zodiac]

Four of the six crew members

All four cupolas contain a head to blow to smithereens

[uneven turtle]

clip rebalances I’m suggesting(t10)

America

Yoh second gun
1.5s to 2.5 seconds
Yoh first gun increase clip reload

T57
2.5 seconds to 3.5s

• 1 shell
• 2-3s total clip reload <- EDIT

Britain

Fv 4005
2.5s to 3.75s
Clip reload -1 second

France

Foch
Alpha Increase to 580
Intra clip from 3.75s to 4.5s
Clip Reload -1s

AMX 50B
Intra clip to 3.5 seconds
Clip reload -4s

BC 25T
Intra clip to 3.25 seconds
Clip reload +2s
Alpha + 20

Eu Nations(auto reloaders are relatively balanced so I leave them out)

TVP
Intra clip to 2.5s
Total clip reload -2 seconds
Alpha bring down to 290 or 300

I think this was all the t10 auto loaders. Any suggestions?

[slender latch]

Foch just needs that 560 alpha back and maybe a 5s or 7.1s intraclip with 13-15s reload. Basically pre-9.1

But if they can give single shot gun a 680-700 alpha that would also be great to cater everyone that prefers alpha

[harsh ravine]

I will never understand why they nerfed the alpha of the single shot gun of the Foch in the first place

[ancient hill]

Why does it feel like wargaming "balances" aspects of a tank completly randomly

[uneven turtle]

Cus they do

[uneven turtle]

@burnt venture do u mind giving advice on this suggestion

[marsh belfry]

these changes are as random as wg did, but worse

[humble depot]

The M-VI-Yoh doesn’t need that big of a clip nerf. Move it up to 2 seconds and buff the full clip reload.

[midnight rapids]

The changes I don't happy about is fv215b why it deserve that much armor nerf.....!

[stone drum]

So autoloaders are now basically forced to yolo you to actually get their clip in, lol.

[uneven turtle]

The funny part is we’ve actually played with 3.5s intra clip before and it was just fine. Y’all complain about auto loaders being broken and don’t actually give any suggestions

[stone drum]

Back in those days heavy tanks had significantly less HP, armour, and almost everything had much less dpm.

The best solution is just reverting the base intra-clip to 3s & buffing other areas of the tanks appropriately.

In your changes they are not rebalances, they are straight up nerfs the clip reload buffs don't even counteract the intra-clip loss.

[stable gulch]

Because they are usually designed around their intra clip time. Changing just the intra clip can change the whole tank and how you play it. Doesnt matter which autoloader, its like that for all of them. You would mostlikely need to change others aspects, to compensate for these changes. Changes like that are not that easy, since you will have many different opinions and that makes it more difficult to find a good middle way

[uneven turtle]

And yet no one had to yolo

[humble depot]

It’s like you haven’t even listened.

[orchid grove]

Lol what? It was definitely not fine. T57 on release was nearly unplayable, and that was against tanks that were nowhere near as strong as they are now

[mighty bear]

I wonder if the is3 defender will ever get fixed. Just sits in my garage useless. How is this a tank of the future?

[stone drum]

The tank only needs very small adjustments, if the aimtime & interclip reload were reduced it would be perfectly fine.

[mighty bear]

Do we know if most people play tier 8?

[mystic gorge]

It’s either tier 8 or 10. My money is on tier 10

[stuck acorn]

we literally have all of those tanks already in game

T8 and 9 as tech trees for current 113 line and 5a as a collector tank

[azure marten]

Poor tier 9 😔

[crisp silo]

Buff grillë. 2nd time today

[fathom glacier]

They should revert grille 15 back to 640 alpha dmg. Not matter if they nerf mobility. They can nerf reload. Maybe 12 sec reload or 13. then it will be fine Tank

[violet island]

they are legit trying to get it away from the high hitting redline sniping toxic gameplay and your sugestion is to give it excactly that toxic playstyle back

[clear shuttle]

no matter what you do to the grille its always gonna divide the community into 2 sides regardless (at least how i see it)
unless they manage to pin point and find a balancing option that everyone is fine with

[livid vortex]

What do y'all think, BT-SV balanced or not?

[fathom glacier]

My opinion that after 5.5 all low tiers are trash changed. So none of them t1-4 are good now. I miss these old tanks on before 5.5 ✌️

[twilit crystal]

so the 140 with adrenaline can do 870 in 8 seconds while the tvp can now do 1160 in 8 seconds with a massive reload. your balance is so cancerous

[lone sandal]

never ever cook again

[stuck acorn]

after 5.5 everything below T5 is not even worth taking a look at, WG essentially killed those tiers

[ornate warren]

Low tiers were pretty popular thanks to its wide variety of tanks with unique playstyles, (derp guns were the prior choice ofc)

I tried to make some of my friends start to play this game , after that most of them complained about the fact that game being too simple and not having anything different, and that answer was exactly what I was expecting since low tiers now just like cs go but slower or smt, and without any variety on specific things.

[distant river]

Low tiers were popular because of the new players that were easy to sealclub and inflate people's ego, and because of the broken tanks that were easy to play and also inflate people's ego.

[azure marten]

Players are still easy to seal club and there are still some broken tanks

[distant river]

Compared to how things used to be there are now practically no broken tanks at low tiers
New players will always be easy to sealclub you can't work around that at all.

Unfortunately the blitz playerbase is full of people who feel like they have to exploit new players, so we lost the luxury of having more variety at low tiers.

[azure marten]

Pz II G, pz II J, Marder II, Covenanter, FCM tank destroyer, Keni otsu
There are so many Pz II G players and even more Pz II Js since it was sold recently

[stuck acorn]

With addition of pref matchmaking this problem was mostly solved and still, having low tiers that are played by experienced players as well as new ones are better than low tiers that aren't played by anybody.

I guess WG should accept the fact that low tiers are impossible to sustain with new players only with the new post 5.5 system of progression that allows them to leave them quickly unless you fill them with bots.

It's either you slow down progression, bring back variety to make experienced players play them again, fill them with bots or end up in a situation we have now - low tiers are essentially dead and we've came to a point where players that are grinding new trees are willing to spend their free exp just to skip this horrible experience combined with 5 min queue times

[remote oriole]

Is there a reason to keep lowtiers active enough to not need bots? Is it really better to have excessive sealclubbing than to simply use these tiers as something of an extended tutorial?

[distant river]

Low tiers aren't meant to sustain new players, they are meant to push them to high tiers

Low tiers are still alive just fine for new accounts, there are not 5 minute queues.

Either way, it's still better for new players to have a chance to learn what to do every 5 mins than just get abused by someone with 20k games in a dw2 with shorter queue times.

[void siren]

Isn’t tier 7/8 where you learn that pushing like a moron ends with you exploding

[stone drum]

I don't see how bots who rarely shoot in the correct direction teach new players anything.

@distant river thats true, I personally think though bots should have their difficulty increased and the for higher tiers masteries should be off until they leave noob mm.

[nimble zodiac]

The problem is sustaining variety and competition. WG made pretty interesting tanks, with qualities that are easy to abuse newer players with. The problem lies within balance, but WG can't just water them all down to the same thing.

[distant river]

They teach considerably more than being completely and totally outplayed in a way you can't understand
And the bots aren't great but they aren't that bad

[stuck acorn]

Well yeah, that would be a good thing if they were able to teach you anything more than tutorial. Sadly they can't.

There is no armor there to speak of, therefore they won't teach you anything about that. Alternative shell types are also mostly useless due to point above and general lack of reasonable quality HE shells. There are no autoloaders that are able to deal more damage than an average high alpha gun of that tier except for covenanter maybe. Not to mention that even if you yolo into the middle of the map and stand there for 30 sec you can still get away with it lol.

There is literally nothing low tiers can teach you that tutorial cannot. They are currently worthless. Why not remove them from the game entirely? Lets start tech trees at T%, it would make literally 0 difference other than saving some free exp we'd use to skip them

[autumn zodiac]

Actually you have it backwards

Everything in low tiers has ridiculously high armor values

HE was more so removed because tanks in low tiers started getting so much armor that HE shells weren't even splashing combined with players not knowing how to use HE shells

[void siren]

Well you can tell their un goodness by their average damage value

[ashen robin]

Nah, that's not quite precise, especially for players with less than like 5.5k battles (idk the exact battle count where the bot mm/easier mm stops). With the bots (literal AI), players can easily win games without even trying, racking up high damage numbers consistently whether you're a good player or not. And even though this stops around tier 7/8, they still get easy mm when playing tiers 8-10. That's why there are rerolls with a career 3.5k+ average damage and 75%+ wr. Not to mention players who aren't as good have still decent wr and damage compared to years previously. And yeah, it looks good on paper that these players are doing better, so it must be the new bot mm and training helping the ppl become better, right? No, it's literally what Synx said. There are then thousands of new players who get tier Xs in a week or less, not knowing important mechanics or tactics about the game. Once these players are put into the normal mm, their winrates tank. I've seen "70-80%ers" dropping to like 50-60% in just a couple of days.

[queen geyser]

Did u do the math

Bro your last statement

If you are a 70%, and have 5500 battles, leaving bot mm with something rly bad, lets say 30% winrate, in order to get to 60% you would need to do 1834 "in a couple of days"

[ashen robin]

?? Can you elaborate

Nah, I didn't mean that statement to solely be for ppl 5.5k+. Besides, idk where ppl get placed into the normal mm ever since wg implemented the new mm. I was just going off of the number provided by the blitzstars replays thing which requires you to have 5.5k battles to post

I was referring to ppl who I've seen who have like 1-2k battles drop in wr significantly from where they started. My bad on the miswording, bc tbh with the new mm, I believe ppl can get placed into normal mm quicker if they perform better on average.

[stone drum]

I wouldn't be so sure, I made a new account and managed to get like 7 or 9 aces back to back in SU-152 due to just how awful bot mm is.

[twin egret]

I wonder if bots affect the ace bar

[ember mountain]

most likely not due to them not dealing enough damage

[brave dragon]

Bots, no. Rerolls in newbie + bot queue, absolutely

[ripe python]

When I want to see if someone is good, I check their stats for their games played and their max damage. If they don’t have 6.5k+ max dmg then I find it hard to see them as good players because they don’t know how to take advantage of a situation. Avg teir so so can asses their avg dmg better

[final warren]

Do we know if newbie queue is removed when you reach a certain tier? 5,000 battles seem like a lot

[void siren]

Some people prefer to play tanks that are physically incapable of carrying

And some people are good at playing those tanks

Na sends people into the deep end at around 1k battles

[drowsy plaza]

5,500 battle @final warren However due to lower server pop sometimes new players in higher tiers get thrown into the deep end earlier. I’ve seen sub 1k game players in tier X… usually a potato in a premium tank. But I have seen several players with multiple tier X tanks with less than 500 battles. They play the idiot modes and have no understanding of game mechanics etc.

[past birch]

go buff Somua

[void siren]

It’s all the other autoloaders that need nerfin

[humble depot]

Ke-Ni (and Ke-Ni Otsu)

[stone moon]

Ke-ni magazine damage is only 130
Pz. II G has 180

[drowsy plaza]

Seriously? I’m 75% solo in that tank. I suspect it’s a major case of “a YOU problem”. Honestly this sort of mindless commentary shows the typical Blitz players mentality. Players never actually have any self awareness or understanding of the game and assume it’s just the tank or their team that is the issue. It’s amplified here multiple times by clueless comments by posters about “buff this” or “nerf this” without any actual discussion of the reasons they feel this way. Honestly for the vast majority of tanks in this game, it’s the player who is the fail on their performance. Yes there are some OP and lemon tanks out there, but not nearly to the extent that many players here lament about it. The biggest issues for balance in this game is the deplorably poor state of players. Players who take positions entirely unsuited for their tanks, or from incompetence push or block friendly tanks who are in solid positions.

[twilit crystal]

12 degrees gun depression bois

[drowsy plaza]

The problem is some players will actually think you are serious. Which of course proves the point about why listening to the vast amount of players is an absolute waste of time. But then again, it’s doesn’t seem like WG has any interest in taking feedback or results from testing either. For then one wouldn’t see the stupid consumables added after live test, or some of the bizarre nerf and buffs to tanks that we are seeing these days.

[fickle shoal]

add ebr would be balanced (clearly)

[uneven turtle]

Not gonna stop trying to suggest auto loader balancing since no one is trying. I’ll try bringing in to account the rest of the tanks stats since I’m still learning but yeah

[stone drum]

AMX 50 100 doesn't need a nerf lol, somua just has trash handling.

[forest ridge]

I think wg should consider splitting the European line sometime in the future since more lines will be added. What do yall think of nations having their own tech tree?

[spring leaf]

Will the WZ-122 TM get a reactive armour consumable or a turret armour buff?

Or just give it 8° of gun depression so I dont suffer on ridge lines...

[sour moon]

I suggest to buff the HE and hull armor of Kpz70, please.

The DPM of KPz70 is so ridículous 😕 it’s my favorite tank, but need some buffs

[austere citrus]

agreed ngl. i think a good turret buff + upper plate buff, some additional pen would make it a nice tank

[ripe python]

It’s not a bad tank though… the only tank I’m personally worried about is t100 lt in the new update

[austere citrus]

i could beat the kpz70 with emil 1 easily

[hasty gyro]

All i need is 10 gun dep and im good
Or if that wont work then the message above.

[silk folio]

All I need is the historical 120mm smoothbore, but that ain't happening

[fickle shoal]

if S-tank style suspension is added maybe, but until then be lucky we have 6 as it had 4 irl without suspension help

and @austere citrus in theory, it has more armor then it had irl, so i'd say mobility is the buff it needs

and @silk folio on the kpz 70? it only had the 152mm, the 120 was what the germans wanted before they compromised on 152

[silk folio]

To my knowledge, the german prototype was intended to have a 120mm before they discontinued the project. The american prototype was designated the MBT-70 and had the 152mm. To be fair, I think the american MBT-70 was the only version to actually exist, but if they were trying to depict the german protytpe the 120mm would be more accurate. All of this could have been avoided if they just named it the MBT-70 and made it american

[harsh ravine]

I wouldn’t mind if the Kpz 70 loses all of its armor in exchange for a significant mobility buff.

I rather have the Kpz 70 be similar to that of a T92E1 instead of being a poor man’s T30.

[ornate warren]

This is #tank-balance-discussion mate

[fickle shoal]

the only ones ever made had 152's, the closest tanks made to kpz 70 with 120mm's are the Leopard Keiler's

[wicked quest]

You do know the KPZ70 is literally on display in Germany right

[austere citrus]

tiger had 100mm in real life, didnt bother wargaming giving it 170mm

[wicked quest]

The tiger used to have accurate armor values , problem was it was put in a tier where every tank was designed to surpass it and it got dunked on hard wg super buffed it to be bearable

[violet island]

looking at top dmg is stupid, over a significant amount of games anyone will have a high dmg game while you need to see the conistent opportunities for avrrage dmg

[clear shuttle]

that one guy who averages 2k in tier 10 with a 50% wr but 9k top damage on his profile

[main tulip]

it's heavier because it needs to mount a larger gun

[hazy sierra]

Because it got the jageroo genes

[clear shuttle]

no why

[unique scaffold]

Can anyone show me a picture of tanks being buffed or nerfed i hate reading

[humble depot]

All KPZ 70 and MBT-70 prototypes mounted the 152mm XM150 Gun-launcher.

[vestal basalt]

Give T54E1 HE shell

[sour moon]

Buff he shell of KPz70 plssssss

[ancient rampart]

Since people were talking about my beloved KPZ 70 I’d like to mention again what I think the tank needs

Replace the standard shell with AP from APCR or buff the base pen to 255 (265 with calibrated)

Buff the overall speed and mobility of the tank 43/45kmh seems reasonable

And give the HE shell some actual Alpha so it’s no longer worse than standard against Spall targets and actually hits for more than standard

As compensation they can remove any form of armor this thing had

[primal sundial]

stop giving tanks apcr
edit for slow mode (every channel really??). can someone do the math, even if you gave it apcr with 255 instead of current 245, the normalisation loss would actually lead to lower penetration chances a lot of the time right

[nimble zodiac]

It all depends on the plate and angle you're shooting it at. If it's thin enough to need to gain rapid effectiveness at narrow angles, but thick enough to stop 3CR (ignoring 3CRB), then normalization can be the difference maker for narrowly angled plates

More normalization has falloff, though, due to the nature of cosine. It's a diminishing profit. The first degree of normalization you get is always the most effective

[primal sundial]

personally I don't think there is much wrong with the tank. If the turret side weakspots were removed (which would appear very in line with WG current approach to heavies) it would be fantastic. It could probably do with a minor gun pen buff, only because t9 mm is fairly bad, but otherwise it is a great tank

[ancient rampart]

245 APCR at tier 9 is just downright worthless
Even when running calibrated which buffs it to 257 you still struggle a fair bit against E75s M103s and the well armored tier 10s

[nimble zodiac]

Ok. For E 75 you only have a point because every non TD struggles to pen it with standard rounds

[primal sundial]

I mean the tiger through to e75 and the prem variants are all very strongly armoured tanks. I wouldn't use them as a benchmark

[ancient rampart]

That's my mistake then I've must've gotten extremely unlucky against the M103 yesterday considering I bounced the lower plate

[nimble zodiac]

Feel free to send to my DMs any replay of non-penetrating shots you feel scammed by. There's always an explanation 😇

[remote oriole]

And the explanation is skill issue RNG

[ripe python]

I disagree. I’ve seen people with a few thousand battles in t10 that don’t have a max dmg above 5k. It happens often

[fickle shoal]

still needs better mobility, 45 seems low, maybe more if it get's super engine boost or smth

[queen geyser]

Keep in mind that max damage is a stat that is maybe counted by wg since not even a year, its possible to have 10k games but 0 top damage

[stone drum]

An excellent idea, but personally I feel the Fv217 badger is desperately in need of Combat stabilization and tungsten to remain relevant in the current tier X meta.

It makes absolutely no sense for a front-line tank with such traverse to have such awful bloom factors. How are you supposed to use the excellent dpm, armour, hp, gun depression, dispersion, acceleration, and penetration if you have such terrible otm bloom values?

[twilit crystal]

Tbh badger should get improved otm but like .38 dispersion

[stone drum]

That would be goofy, given as you know base dispersion compounds with otm handling & mobility to give a gun its gun handling. Hence why for example Jagdpanze E-100 feels much more accurate than something like obj 268 v4.

[ripe python]

True. Didn’t think about that.

[stone drum]

Dumb teammates are a blessing, I dislike having to fight for damage.

[gloomy nymph]

hola

[stone drum]

Feel free to disagree with me, but in my opinion the Bt-2 & Lorraine 40t should receive the reserve track mechanic.

@void siren if by thin line you mean 1 kilometer thick, I strongly agree. However as is the the Lorraine 40t isn't even remotely toxic, it's just a relatively underperforming medium that had its main armament stripped away.

@void siren it has the ability to barely clip 900 damage with long clipping time, derpy accuracy, all while being frontall he-able. If you think it's toxic your just either comically garbage or simply lack critical thinking skills.

Tanks like progetto, pantera, amx 13 90, bourrasque, T77, etc are significantly more toxic than lorraine.

[void siren]

There’s a very thin line between the 40t being horribly toxic and it being just a normal med

It has the ability to clip half of the average tier 8s hp straight into the void, what?

I’m saying it can possibly be toxic - currently it just sucks

Also, saying it has derpy accuracy is a lie. 0.310 dispersion isn’t derpy, neither is 0.317.

What’s stopping it from being god awful to fight is the aimtime and intraclip

[stone drum]

Sorry for the aggression, la lorraine est ma petite chou-fleur.

Though I would like to see it get it's proper 100mm gun (almost identical to somua SM's minus the on-movement dispersion and possibly with slightly longer intraclip)

@void siren it has relatively long aim-time, unimpressive after shot dispersion, and relatively poor handling in light of its Mobility, which makes for an overall derpy gun.

@void siren it totally doesn't have anything to do with the fact mediums can penetrate it frontally with HE.

[void siren]

I fear that if it gets the 100mm it’ll get the stock bat chat alpha (270)

[stone drum]

if they did that they might as well not add it. If it doesn't have 310 alpha & 232mm of penetration balanced out by dpm & clipping speed their is absolutely no point in adding it.

I would Honestly be equally satisfied if they simply gave the current gun the model & gun characteristics (penetration, velocity, & shell drop-off) as the 100mm SA47.

[void siren]

WG thinking “the sa47 is too op, even cyclically” and hard nerfing it on the ap amx 30

It has 280 alpha and 218 pen what

[stone drum]

I would have dropped the money on It if they didn't do that.
I would have rathered trash dpm & handling.

@void siren don't forget Wargaming mounting ARL's 90mm gun on basically every French tank even though only arl was capable of mounting it, as It was literally impossible to fit into an occilating turret.

[void siren]

Those are bonuses - they’re included in the deal

They’re “variations “

[azure marten]

Typical french bias

[wicked quest]

@drowsy plaza don’t engage with him hes bound to get thrown out again

[void siren]

I honestly… have no idea how the wz-122 tm is even viable

I need an explanation how a medium with horrid heavy mobility, medium hp, heavy gun, and medium armor can even survive, nonetheless thrive.

How!?

Is it the dispersion!?
The camo?

[stone drum]

No, it's solely for the reason that like minotauro & obj 268 version it's basically an extra heavy tank for your team, it doesn't matter if it's kinda bad, as it still gives your team a +1 heavy advantage.

[void siren]

Rip

[hasty gyro]

They are the road to an ace

[void siren]

Almost good enough but just not quite good enough teammates are the road to a kolobanov-ace

[spring leaf]

You probably don't understand how much money 10K gold is worth, so there is just no point arguing with you...

The tank is better than most meds in statistical data but lacks in performance, that's why it requires a buff

[primal sundial]

what does it matter what 10k gold is worth? Are you suggesting that premium tanks should be stronger? If it is strong in statistics but lacks in performance for you, that would suggest a skill issue.

[drowsy plaza]

So one of the best performing tier 8 meds. Lacks performance? No, you can’t play it. That’s a YOU issue.

[spring leaf]

No, I never said that they need to unbalance the game, all said is that they need to be worth the money paid

@drowsy plaza I can't help you, sorry

[primal sundial]

just sounds like you bought it thinking it would be amazing and now you realise you suck at it you have buyers remorse. That is understandable. You should spend more time researching your big purchases to make sure you will get value from them. It does require having a grasp on the fundamental basics of gameplay though, to be able to watch reviews and relate them to your own ability and style of play.
eg the obj 268/v4. super strong tank. but it has a gameplay style combined with no turret that I find quite tedious, so I will never buy it

[spring leaf]

The WZ 122 TM is better than most other meds in statistics like gun dep for eg. Who would know a 7° gun dep would feel like a 6°? Plus in some cases the frontal armour can be strong but it can be exploited pretty easily especially the turret and ridgelines, it's rediculous

[twilit crystal]

Lorraine should just get 240 alpha as all tier 8 90 mm meds should get. a 7% alpha buff helps an autoloader a lot as well. That's a whole 60 damage more per magazine,

[unique scaffold]

Is the is4 still good after nerf

[fringe quest]

Nope, it’s destroyed

[solid sequoia]

Yes

[glacial basin]

what if the tiger 2 got 400 alpha instead of 310

[solid sequoia]

No

[primal sundial]

tiger 2 should already be nerfed

[marsh belfry]

i suggest taking some copium

[spring leaf]

Atleast I don't think I need any

[marsh belfry]

after all that ranting you did, you need tons of it

[thorny timber]

That thing has already got anti standard Armor at the front for any tank that isn't a td or a t9,it doesn't also need the general t8 heavy alpha with the DPM it has

[wicked quest]

Stop feeding him

[spring leaf]

That doesn't make much sense rn 💀

[slender latch]

Tiger 2 is overrated as crack but a buff wouldn't be needed on the other hand I find VK 100 P better tho due to its heavier armor and alpha

[thorny timber]

I also like the vk100 personally,more fatter in terms of a superheavy in t8.

[twin egret]

So 0 dollars? Anyone can get 10k gold for free by watching ads and having patience for like 7 months lol

[spring leaf]

Bruh you would wait 7 months when you can pay over $30 and get your vehicle which you are desperate in getting and I also got the tank because I also thought the stats would atleast be similar to the aspect of WoT PC in a way

[twin egret]

Buddy, we know. You don't have to repeat it every day. WoTb is not like WoT PC so just accept it or go complain somewhere else. You're wrong about the WZ-122 M
Also $30? The tank was practically free a year ago from watching tournament streams, so give or take 2 weeks to obtain it from idling watching the streams to open crates to get parts of a certificate for it. If you were desperate to get it, that's on you, not the game for deciding to spend $30

[spring leaf]

Well I wasn't available at that moment, btw you should check the WZ 122 TM's stats on both games...

[twin egret]

No, I won't, I'm already fully aware of their differences. I don't care. Stop your fixation on it. it's balanced

[spring leaf]

The point is... the WZ 122 TM is not "balanced" or else I wouldn't be asking for a buff if I don't see something which affects me directly I do not waste time...

@primal sundial How is it overpowered, I guess?

@keen dew It either needs a tactical consumable or an armour or gun dep buff, that's all I ask

[keen dew]

its fine as is, no need for a buff

[primal sundial]

you are correct. Statistically, it is overpowered, not balanced. So a nerf would be in order it seems 😂

[wicked quest]

Holy hell stop feeding him Jesus Christ do you guys not learn

[twin egret]

It's balanced enough, it's a skill issue to put it bluntly at best. Go back to playing it on PC if you want to enjoy it the way you want it to be if that's the case bruh

[spring leaf]

I wonder if you guys know the true meaning of overpowered...

@twin egret You shouldn't be telling me actually

[fickle shoal]

https://tenor.com/view/cry-wah-funny-sad-gif-17216674

[twin egret]

dude bruh
you didn't even bother placing the camera at the right height. "why are tanks going through my upper plate?" try to angle. Go play the tank on PC if you want to have the playstyle you want

[spring leaf]

Hehe, 😂 you don't understand common logic that that's how the tank looks a majority of times while directly facing it and that angling will result in getting penned in your trackwheel, what your saying is just 🧢🧢🧢

If you don't have anything sensible to say, just don't because you make basically anyone lose braincells every second 🙄

@scenic kindle That's exactly why the tank should have a better gun dep

[scenic kindle]

Obviously, you angle in any tank and you can get damaged and tracked.

[twin egret]

Dude most of the time we're not even aiming at the upper plate, we're aiming at the lower plate. " I got penned in the track!" Happens to most tanks. the tank relies on terrain, not sitting out in the open and relying on its armor.
Maybe go and learn how to use the tank by watching WoTb games that feature the tank to help you
Like come on, watch this
https://www.youtube.com/live/VSv5l0wGvmQ?si=RPpJ_lWZmwQiqbwT

[spring leaf]

Did you see where I aimed the reticle on? That wasn't "anywhere" near the lower plate bruh and how can you even use terrain without gun dep 🤦🏻 that doesn't make sense because the whole point of the WZ 122 TM is hulldown :/

Also why are you showing me an old vid?

[wicked quest]

@brave dragon for later

[twin egret]

Watch the video, even if the video is a year old it's still fairly relevant video. The tank is clearly balanced by today's standards

[fickle shoal]

W hrf

[spring leaf]

I actually don't understand why I should watch a vid I watched before for 3 1/2 hours, I got around 8 mastery badges in the tank so you can't dictate to me something I already know...

Nope that 8 mastery badges came mainly because the enemy wasn't focused on me... And on top of that, some teams are just bad and your basically nothing in this tank without a team

[twin egret]

8 masteries? Then it's clearly good enough then, you just proved it right then and there that the tank actually works pretty well and that it's balanced. The tank needs no changes to it atm for balance purposes

[clear shuttle]

is this guy still whining about the 122TM being a mid or bad tier 8

[spring leaf]

I already suggested my buff and I didn't ask anyone to intervene in this buff, because it's not they who benefit, it's me

Actually, only logical people can understand this 💀💀

[lone sandal]

so what you're saying is that wargaming should buff a tank because you and only you (literally) wants it to be overpowered

[clear shuttle]

please tell me what you suggested for the 122TM to be buffed then

[spring leaf]

• Turret strength could be buffed to either 240/250mm and increase the mm of the turret sides by 10/15mm

• Gun depression should be buffed from 7° to 8°

• Give it better terrain resistance it's horrible and turns slow no matter the build

• And lastly, buff the standard pen from 203-215mm atleast

[nimble zodiac]

In the first screenshot, you shown the FCM from about 4.08m upwards, where the tank is only 2.64m tall. So you're either rigging your argument with misleading screenshots (like they're saying), or playing badly, showing your upper plate to an enemy in a position that they could look down on your upper plate from
And I'm being forgiving about the 2 degree angle, instead of 3

[spring leaf]

Here's another... It should definitely be alot more clearer...

@fickle shoal That is 218-222mm, atleast use some braincells for once 🙄

[fickle shoal]

wow! magically, he can't pen!

[queen geyser]

Ur rly funny, I give you that

[slender latch]

This must be deja vu didn't someone from this channel also complained about the WZ122TM forgot the name tho

[vale lion]

hi

[lone sandal]

(it's actually the exact same person complaining about 122tm)

[twin egret]

Oh wow
If that's true then 💀

[clear shuttle]

yeah i thought the pfp and similar name (iirc) would of been obvious

[wicked quest]

I literally said it numerous times yall don’t ever pay attention

[twin egret]

I'm not checking here 24/7 so there's that unfortunate timing of me being gone and you having had stated it

[slender latch]

Probs a troll no wonder that dude made a mod lose their mind

[obtuse sentinel]

still has better armor than almost every other medium tank... You gonna be making a proper point or are you going to keep complaining about your own lack of skill using the 122TM?

[spring leaf]

Do you have any proof?
Also even if you did it wouldn't matter because their are other statistical issues other than just the armour...

[obtuse sentinel]

What proof do I need? Look at the armor values for yourself and see. I literally can't be bothered to handfeed someone who can't seem to see that the way they play with this particular tank is flawed. I don't really consider myself to be a statistically good player for the most part, but my current winrate in the tank is 67.19% at 64 battles. I average 2184 damage per battle and have an average kill ratio of 1.125 tanks per battle. What enables me to perform incredibly well with this supposedly "mediocre" tank but you can't seem to do it?

[spring leaf]

You also need to understand the fact that any TD butters through this turret, and +1° of gun dep wouldn't hurt, would it?

[obtuse sentinel]

I can somewhat agree with the gun depression part. It lacks in it, but I don't find that to be a big issue with the tank. I think you simply need to find a way to play the tank without being exposed for long periods of time. If you want a masterclass on how to properly play the tank, refer to fatness's stream here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSv5l0wGvmQ. I think the issue with how you may be playing the vehicle is you may be overexposing yourself to enemy fire for long periods of time.

[spring leaf]

I already watched the vid and all I did was expose the turret for 1 sec and got penned at the edge of the turret with enhanced just rediculous

[obtuse sentinel]

That's just one scenario that happened. Shots like that happen from time to time. But if that is happening constantly to you, it's because you are placing yourself in a position for someone to tank advantage of the tank's weakness. Again that isn't the tank's issue but yours as you aren't properly hiding your tank and keeping yourself safe.

[spring leaf]

I have replays to prove it all to you that it's has nothing to do with skill

[obtuse sentinel]

does this mainly have to do with cupola shots?

[spring leaf]

No, the turret itself

Since the cupola is already a weak spot then why not just fortify the turret?

[fair depot]

The turret isn't the issue. The cupolas of this think are like Mickey Mouse's ears with only 148mm armour (not good enough at tier 8).

[unique scaffold]

NEW CHINA TANK!

[fickle gale]

🤍🤗🤗

[queen geyser]

Bro its not the fact that "it wouldnt hurt" but it makes no sense to do it, the only reason u want that change is because u bought it and want it to be better which is the wrong approach, I think we all want a balanced game here, so we should look to other tier 8 premiums that are far worse First, if u want buffs so badly

Also some of your Takes are kinda funni
"U though it would be more like in pc" bro wot pc 122Tm has like 1400 base dpm, would u want that in blitz aswell ? i doubt it

I can see what u wanting to see but I personally want a balanced game over some buffs for a tank that is complely fine to play

[thorny timber]

Bro wants a Chinese chimera

[lone sandal]

yes, tanks have weakspots, no way guys i thought all tanks were supposed to have impenetrable turrets like tornvagn and concept "B"

mickey mouse ears got me laughing though

[stone drum]

Of you suffer from buyers remorse on a $20 payment, you shouldn't be spending money on an online game and one should re-evaluate their life situation.

[real bison]

@spring leaf you were banned for whining about the 122 TM last time, and youre back to continue

is there something wrong with you

[storm spoke]

Dude is a martyr to the "lets make the 122tm an already op tank the most op tank in wotb" religion and i'm starting to believe him since hes literally resurected

[leaden flare]

122tm is far from OP
My god OP almost as overused as sigma nowadays

[twin egret]

Is anyone gonna talk about how horrible the changes are to the minotoro are gonna be?

[nimble zodiac]

No, players would rather focus on insignificant alpha changes

[void siren]

200 more hp is a lot

[twin egret]

it's not a 200 hp increase, it's 100
AP changes to APCR
Engine Power is decreased
Shell velocity increased for HEAT
Shell velocity for the new APCR round is adjusted to match that of the previous AP

[queen geyser]

If they not gonna give it a major change its quite anyway, tank is hopeless designed to begin with

[twin egret]

-Shell velocity increase for HEAT — absolutely useless since you're not sniping in the tank
-Shell velocity adjustment for APCR — irrelevant. Increase on HEAT? but not APCR?
-AP changes to APCR — completely unnecessary, HEAT will be used more now
-HP increases by 100 — cool, but then you see the E3/E4 having 2000 HP
-Engine Power decrased — wow, not like the tank suffered enough from it already

[void siren]

What if… we want the tank to die out?

[twin egret]

for...?

[void siren]

Silly armor profile tank

Wg make it kil

[stone drum]

lol you want Minotauro's already horrible shell velocity to get worse?

The changes it's getting aren't really significant, it gets slightly slower & slightly more Survivability.

[twin egret]

I've never really noticed how horrible it is, maybe because the tank is supposed to be fighting with the heavies, not at a distance

[void siren]

WG is just making meds more difficult to play

(Impossible to play)

[twilit crystal]

Its also a vicious feedback cycle for meds especially in NA and ASIA. The more worse players are discouraged the more likely your match on the enemy team is a good player. If you are a 55er have fun being a 50er now that the other med is also 55er

[zinc maple]

If you know the game, and if you have played for a long time, any tank can be good whether it's balanced, horrible, or op. It's not always the tank. I've played horrible tanks that most other players absolutely hate playing, and I'll say these "bad" tanks are probably some of the best tanks in the game. Know your strengths and weaknesses

[solid sequoia]

There is a difference between liking bad tanks and saying bad tanks are good. You can like bad tanks all you want, that doesn’t make them good tanks.

[zinc maple]

@solid sequoia exactly, it's the player not the tank.

@burnt venture yes, you can very well be the best player in the game🤷

[stone drum]

WG balancing dogma in a single sentence.

[solid sequoia]

That’s… the opposite of what I was saying. There are objectively bad tanks, you liking said bad tanks doesn’t change the fact that they are bad.

[azure marten]

So a stock T28 Prototype is probably one of the best tanks in the game

At least the cent’s got decent mobility, a stock T28 Prot. has armour but everything else is horrendous

[winged barn]

I would take that any day over a stock centurion1

[stone drum]

The best part is Wargaming seemingly believes mediums are currently fine... possibly even strong. Evidenced by not just their decisions, but from what they say & play on stream, all the way to the jokes they crack.

I would wager they saw a professional player or super-tester absolutely crap on a 40%er WG dev heavy user and are now absolutely convinced mediums are broken.

[zinc maple]

Perhaps you all didn't understand, it's the player, not the tank, while yes it is also the tank in some sense if you're talking about stock tanks, but what I'm saying is if you've played the game for a long time, know the maps, the strength and weaknesses of each individual tank, you will have an upper hand in in situations where you must know where to look and shoot.

@stone drum WG went down hill the moment they decided that they don't care about the player base, only lining their pockets

[azure marten]

Is that why E 50 M is getting a buff then

[stone drum]

Shhh, don't give WG ideas. Soon we'll see every medium with alternative 75mm guns in tier X.

https://tenor.com/view/write-that-down-taking-notes-school-universities-university-gif-17937210

[spring leaf]

The WZ 122 TM has the same DPM on PC just like blitz in fact probably worse in exchanging for better side armour and turret armour, better mobility and acceleration, better gun dep, and also a better penetration in every way at 233mm for standard and 297 for HEAT

@real bison No, what happened last time was racism, now this is facts...

[nimble zodiac]

Now you're just straight up lying

WZ in blitz has 2k DPM

[spring leaf]

This alone tells me you know nothing about the tank...

• Go to blitzhangar

@void siren Yes?

[void siren]

They’re… correct…?

[real bison]

with just rammer and +13% double food provisions…

the 122 TM has 2035 DPM…

[zenith harness]

Since there's no discussion channel for match balance, i'll use this channel.

This is an example of an unfair matchup in my favor since I was the only light tank i easily flanked every one of them and won

[nimble zodiac]

The reason there's no matchup balance channel is because nobody wants to hear it, and it doesn't validate your post here, so I suggest you remove it

Also @spring leaf go see a doctor

[zenith harness]

Maybe YOU don't want to hear it..

But getting back to the topic, this tank is seriously underpowered for being a special tank that was only obtainable in ratings. The autoloader is painfully slow compared to tech tree autoloaders. 2.31 seconds per shell? Seriously? I often end up on the losing side in 1 on 1 against tier 7 pros

[void siren]

Just buff the actual 40t

[zenith harness]

Why? "Fearless" is meant to be superior to the original tank, but it's only slightly better which was very disappointing when I got it. So why would anyone play rating battles for a tank that's only slightly better? Currently in rating they're offering the T49 Fearless which is also just a slightly upgraded version of the T49 with a 1 second quicker reload and slightly improved traverse but worse mobility and armor

[void siren]

Man is quite literally advocating grind 2 win 💀
It needs to be nerfed - like the t49 fearless, it should be slower than the original tank

[stone drum]

Maybe because Lorraine 40t needs a buff more than the fearless???

Albeit Lorraine doesn't need a buff so much as to simply receive its proper 100mm gun.

[zenith harness]

just because you guys can't get Fearless tanks you want buffs for tanks that can be purchased with gold? tanks earned through rating should rightfully be more powerful

[void siren]

If the Lorraine receives the 100mm what will the amx 50 100’s reason for existing be
@t.d.craft no.

[spring leaf]

You too

[stone drum]

Higher dpm (about 400) due to faster interclip & likely intraclio, considerably better protection, higher hp, and finally superior handling.

Lorraine won't be recieving a gun with the stats of AMX 50 100 so much as it would be receiving one with somua's stats.

[void siren]

Ah ok

(WG on their way to either make the gun cyclic or take the gun stats from the ap amx 30)

[nimble zodiac]

You say that yet you use a source that immediately proves you wrong. You're just trolling.

Blitzhangar. You implied my claim about WZ's DPM was incorrect, when, in fact, it was correct.

Bruh, all I was challenging was your claim about WZ having PC WZ's DPM, I was challenging that and that only

[spring leaf]

What source? 🤨

Well, I don't see any problem here

Is the DPM the only thing you know? And it's not anything to bluff about either...

Yes, but all I was saying is that the PC version of this tank is better 🤷🏻 nothing else...

[nimble zodiac]

I didn't challenge whether WZ on PC was better, since I don't have extensive experience on PC. I only made the claim about its DPM.

You specifically said "The WZ 122 TM has the same DPM on PC just like blitz"

[spring leaf]

It sacrifices DPM for everything else on PC

The DPM is also clearly different 11.8 Vs 14-15 secs?

No, with elite modules the reload can go down as low as 13.5/13.6 secs

Ofc it won't exactly be the same, but 50-100 DPM difference? For everything bruh?

[nimble zodiac]

13.5s reload does not get that close to 2000 DPM
If Blitz ran cali then that makes like 120 DPM off from PC

[spring leaf]

Even when the WZ 122 TM in blitz is running Cali it still doesn't go below 1900 DPM

The matches and maps are also bigger and longer so you should also see the differences...

The WZ 122 TM doesn't have an exact 2000 DPM so it would still be over 1900 DPM

[nimble zodiac]

Again, my single point was that the DPM was certainly not the same, and not very close, either. I don't speak of PC's WZ vs Blitz WZ, except their DPM
Is all.

[spring leaf]

Anyways... You get the point the 122 TM on PC is what should be considered "OP" not in blitz...

[stone drum]

Don't worry, I wouldn't push my AMX 50 100 which I enriched into irrelevance.

[ancient rampart]

Imagine thinking the WZ-122 TM needs a buff when it has a 120mm gun with the same DPM as heavies

270 HEAT pen

frontal hull armor that can bounce a Tiger II consistently

Upper plate is about as strong as the Raac with a similarly strong turret that can easily troll

[twilit crystal]

it still has the same mobility as a heavy tank with like 500 less hp in exchange for camo. Not worth it

[lunar sphinx]

Wz-122TM would be fine if it didn't move at the speed of a obese cat
No reason to use the tank right now

[grizzled granite]

Ok so Balance the 60Tp reload speed Make it to 11 or 12

[wicked quest]

Get out of here

[granite pebble]

Yeah I'm ngl the gun on it is... Fine I guess, but the mobility being as bad as it is.... Yeah no, just play the WZ-112-2

[lone sandal]

trolling isn't allowed

[austere citrus]

ngl 60tp overly strong (even rn) and the fact thats it getting buffed is cool (since i like op tanks) but not rational

[granite pebble]

It's not inherently getting buffed though, it's losing a lot of gun handling which will without a doubt be felt, especially when compared to E-100 and VK72, and even here soon the 114-Sp2

I mean yeah the aim time is cool and all but depending on how badly the soft stats get hit, that second might literally just be as compensation for the nerf

[stone drum]

Nearly a second off the aimtime though is tremendous though.

[austere citrus]

e100 is going to be so strong lol, same for vk72, 114 is bad compared to the rest, 60tp i guess gun handling would make it worse since its accuracy is super good rn

[spring leaf]

It's front armour ranges from 180-225mm depending on angle, and in most cases it cannot even bounce a Tiger II, and angling doesn't work IMO. Also it's turret is not as troll as the RAAC

Also don't forget that the standard pen is 203mm

[stone drum]

If they hit the otm dispersion factors hard then that means the base aim-time will be super low which should actually feel pretty nice in all honesty, especially if your not incurring multiple penalties at once.

[ancient rampart]

If you can't make 248mm of upper plate armor on flat ground work with a turret that is super troll then honestly I don't think you know how to play the tank

[spring leaf]

You should use some armour inspector 🤦🏻

[ancient rampart]

????????

[spring leaf]

Huh

[ancient rampart]

Why are you showing the armor at a downward angle (Even then the Tiger II has issues reliably penning that)

[spring leaf]

It's the same angle you showed here ☝️ and on top of that, the reason the Tiger II couldn't pen is because it was on a slight hulldown, but they easily butter through your armour on ridgelines including tanks of the same tier...

How does the slight gun change affect the angle of the frontal armour? Smh

[ancient rampart]

It's not the same angle you can very easily see the gun pointing downwards in your image
Press the view button in the top right and do front lol

[spring leaf]

Ok, this should debunk you...

No matter the excuse, this tank is meant to be for mainly hulldown

[ancient rampart]

So when are you actually going to show the tank on proper flat ground

[nimble zodiac]

Me when neither of you realize the first of the three screenshots is with no normalization aka generally HEAT, and the rest of them were for AP, making the normalization cause the different effective values

While I am aware you had the conflict of positions and POV, it still has an influence

[ancient rampart]

I don't see how I'm supposed to realize it's no normalization
Especially since I haven't purchased armor inspector
either way when I'm viewing on mobile the WZ-122TM ends up having stronger effective armor on it's front plate (on flat ground) than the Racc which is pretty significant

[main tulip]

Having the same anything as heavies is not anything to brag about as long as it also has the mobility of one, but no heavy HP.

[nimble zodiac]

RAAC and WZ have extremely similar upper plate effectiveness from the front, with no angling, their difference is less than 5mm effective
Both around 207/215mm

@ancient rampart Well, now you know I suppose

[ancient rampart]

Those upper plates are no joke
A bit of hull down and not much can really go through them at tier 8
If a T34 has issues penning then it definitely has solid armor

[wooden lynx]

It's been 2 weeks and you're still whining about the WZ 122 TM

[marsh belfry]

Bro thinks his 10k gold is special

[spring leaf]

It hasn't been so long, and how long will you record this?

[ancient rampart]

As long as they need too until you learn the WZ-122 TM doesn’t need any buffs

[wicked quest]

Til he gets removed*

[wooden lynx]

Until you stop whining about a tank that is already balanced

[spring leaf]

It seems that the person who said you guys are completely delusional is right...

[marsh belfry]

You are the only one delusional rn, no one complaints anything about the wz and you here whining for smth that apparently so special

[spring leaf]

Because you don't know a thing about the 122 TM

You don't even understand what cost even means...

@ancient rampart When you've played the tank then you can tell me about it

So why couldn't you show me a better proof recently?

Also, don't go by assumption or by hypothesis please

[ancient rampart]

It takes zero effort to look up the tank’s stats or watch videos on it

Both of which show the tank doesn’t need any buffs

@spring leaf I do not need to play the tank to see how it plays and performs

[lost crane]

I have player the tank and it’s perfectly fine, even if not very good : good alpha, depression and accuracy (better 122mm than most of heavy is like), not bad mobility, slower than most medium but more mobile than heavy/heavium. And very good armor against med and t7, and fine against ht and t9. But even if you don’t want to rely on armor, the gun is really good.
And you need to angle the hull to be efficient

I don’t know, I try it in a friend account but me and my friend have 84 battle, 56% WR and 1 ace.

[spring leaf]

What's your WR and mastery badges?

Then how am I supposed to believe you?

Check armour inspector

@wooden lynx Where are your solid stats and statistics? 🤷🏻

[wooden lynx]

The only person who is delusional here is you, imagine whining about a perfectly balanced tank needing a buff. You got hit by solid facts and statistics and still refuse to accept that the tank doesn't need any changes. I mean sure I do wish it had better pen on the standard. But I don't want a another high penetration medium with massive alpha that would just make it borderline OP.

Again you are delusional if you think that it needs buffs.

[spring leaf]

I actually don't care what you think, IMO I don't think you know the price and meaning of 10K gold

@ancient rampart If it doesn't have meaning, yes

I also ignore unnecessary comments

[ancient rampart]

It seems like you don’t care what anyone else thinks

You just live in your own little world with your fingers in your ears completely ignoring everything people have told you

[lost crane]

It was for 8,5k before, it’s why i waiting for price drop before buying it.
And in blitzstar, you can see that the 122tm isn’t op, but is better than 2/3 of t8 and 3/4 of t8 med tank, far from a bad tank.
If you want to buff some tank, look at panther 8.8, fcm 50t, panzer 58… which are truly underperforming

Yes, it’s not the best, and it not need to be the best. And most of the tank above it are sols for 8,5k, 10k or more, or only in draw, as the 122Tm

[spring leaf]

Look at the amount of tanks above it, but yet it is better than most tier 8 tanks 😳

And btw, WR doesn't mean you survive the match

Actually those tanks are okay in there own way, there is a larger diff in this

[wooden lynx]

Armour is 240+mm on flat ground w/o shell normalisation of AP/APCR which is T-54 levels of armour.

The tank has 2036 DPM w/ Rammer and 13% boost from food. Basically 600 more to what you claim that is 1400 in PC.

The turret armour is strong but not impenetrable. The turret is meant to fall apart with Tank Destroyer shells.
Ex. St. Emil(highest pen in Tier 7)

And lastly the tank is 8th highest winrate in Tier 8 mediums and is clearly over performing compared to other mediums.(21st in all of Tier 8)

These are your solid facts and statistics, at this point you are just completely delusional. You're only here because you can't perform well in a tank that you bought for 10k gold.

Why would you even buy it in the first place?

[queen geyser]

So u would say a avg winrate of 53.88% is bad ? So bad that it needs a buff?

@wooden lynx keep in mind that Wz 122 Tm has 1400 base dpm in wot pc, with rammer and food + etc its gets better to like 1600-1700 well still far worse then what we have in blitz

[spring leaf]

Did you take a look? If not then I can help you...

@queen geyser Simply because you winning a match doesn't mean your tank survives. As I said before the statistics appear better than some other meds, but the actual play is different than what you would anticipate

[lost crane]

@spring leaf Please, angle the hull, and send this again !

[queen geyser]

Im fully aware that you probably dont survive every Battle but even wg cant prevent that

[wooden lynx]

Again you are looking down at the tank reducing effective armour, your arguement does not make any sense whatsoever since you are providing evidences that are NOT shown properly.

Next time just improve your skills at this game so that you can perform better in a balanced tank. You seem to be an OP tank enjoyer if you want something similar just get a Chimera.

If you're performing bad on a tank, that doesn't mean that the tank is bad and needs a buff. That's just a skill issue on your part. I myself have proven even an average player can perform well on the tank.

[spring leaf]

@lost crane That would result in a trackwheel, also the image that @queen geyser sent was claiming that it is 248 without angle so why would it need to angle against a Tiger II then since you'll have so much armour?

@queen geyser Well atleast I have 10 mastery badges to prove that...

@wooden lynx Can you tell me what exactly is balanced here?

@obtuse sentinel You woke up at 2AM 💀💀

@queen geyser Do you need any proof? If so I can

[queen geyser]

Wuuuuh mastery badges, I love those pls can tell me more about how u got them, its always super exiting to see these mastery badges especially since everyone in the whole Community use them as a way to proove how skilled they are, wait Nobody does

Also I didnt send any pic, pls take ur pills, ur imagining things

@spring leaf if u want send your blitzstars of your tier 8 mediums u played, Overall stats or recent if you played a lot of tier 8 mediums lately, we can also go dms if u wanna

[obtuse sentinel]

I wake up to see Cobalt-69 is still at it yet again. Bro just doesn’t know when to stop. 💀

[lost crane]

@spring leaf You need to angle because of normalization, and don’t overangle and enemy can’t penetrate your side. Please, try to angle a little, but not over the autoricochet point for the side armor (side armor angled at more than 70 degrees)
Trackwheel, but no penetration 😉

[solid sequoia]

Bro has found the biggest supply of Copium in the world and is keeping it all to himself 😔

[wooden lynx]

The armour is great but not over powered still has the weakspots where people that can actually aim take advantage of you.

Low mobility compensates for the armour and armament it carries.

The gun has a lot of premium pen, not the best standard pen but it is enough to get the job done.

Despite having a 122mm armament it does still have pretty solid accuracy and dpm is pretty average considering it does hit hard(400).

We understand that you're bad at this tank and spent 10k gold on a tank that didn't meet your expectations.

@spring leaf and please do present your stats to us so that we would actually know how you are performing on it. Take a screenshot in the game. Show us the winrate and your "mastery badges" that you've been bragging about by getting 8 in 3 hours

[queen geyser]

Or just give ign, I can google myself

[obtuse sentinel]

Bro’s hogging the entire international supply and has left us with nothing but scraps to fight over. Sooner or later I’m going to run out of copium to huff when the argument is no longer going in my favour. 😭

[lost crane]

I havn’t armor inspector, please can anyone send the armor of a 122TM angle like that against a tiger 2 ?

[spring leaf]

Remember the mechanic that says the side of WZ 122 TM's hull is 70mm, and pretty that angle which you mentioned means you'd have to be sidescraping

@wooden lynx Which arnament? 🤨 The gun reloads just as fast as the IS-5 but has a way worse pen at 203mm Vs 221mm, and has very bad terrain resistance which obviously means the turn rate and acceleration is horrible no matter the build and it is also the same premium pen has the IS-5 too, along with the accuracy just being slightly better than IS-5 because it misses even fully aimed shots.

And ofc, I'll send it

[lost crane]

No, if you angle like the 122TM in this image (against a tiger II), an enemy can’t penetrate the side. And the gun of the 122TM is better than the IS 5 one (accuracy, depression, aim time, gun handling).
And even against 225 mm ap pen, which is better than most of my and lt, the 122TM is not unarmored at all
@spring leaf it’s not in battle, but to try the armor efficienty (not by me, it’s in guidesblitz)

[queen geyser]

"slightly better accurcy" 💀

@spring leaf bro give ign pls

[spring leaf]

Very well then...

@lost crane Also who is aiming at the 122 TM? 😂

@queen geyser You'll have to DM me for that

[ancient rampart]

When a medium has enough armor to comfortably bounce all heavies in tier 8 while sharing the same DPM as 120mm heavies

[lost crane]

So, to recap, the 122TM have really good armor for a med tank, one of the best 122mm in Chinese and Russian heavy tank (and it’s a med, not an heavy) and far better than other 122mm gun on mt, not bad mobility, what does it lack ?

203mm ap and 270 heat are enough with better aim time accuracy and depression, and look other 122mm med, like t34-3, t34-2, stg, they have worst penetration (175mm)
@ancient rampart no, because of normalization, the t34 can pen the upper plate

[spring leaf]

Yeah an armour than constantly shows a non changing 248mm -_- awesome 😎

@lost crane Which armour is that now? One of the best at 203mm pen? Bruh

And bro watch vids check stats ask people who have experiences in the tank for information, but there is absolutely no way in your right mind thinking that the mobility is good

If the armour was this good I wouldn't be commenting 😂

[ancient rampart]

The armor only gets better when you hull down

Seriously there’s nothing in tier 8 (outside of TDs) that is comfortably penning that front plate with standard unless they have a upward angle letting them aim down

[lost crane]

The mobility is good for such an armored medium with powerful gun, and yes, the 122TM is one of the most armored medium in t8, and have better armor than even ht.

[spring leaf]

I literally showed proof of the 122 TM getting penned by the Tiger II easily on flat ground...

@lost crane And the tank is not about frontal armour its turret armour and gun depression, and is 38-40 deg a sec turn rate good?

Smh

[marsh belfry]

Ever heard of Angling?

Take whole load of this bro

@clear shuttle nah he wants 122tm with the armor of a maus and mobility of Sheri

[clear shuttle]

he wants the 122TM to have wz-121 stats at tier 8

[ancient rampart]

Every image you’ve shown was that Tiger II shooting at the armor from a downward angle which is just disingenuous

Maybe if you show the Tiger II trying to pen the 122TM on flat ground or hull down maybe you’ll realize you’re being delusional

[queen geyser]

Since he does like 100 more avg damage in 121, that wouldnt change much for him

[spring leaf]

It only needs it's turret and a +1° gun dep

@ancient rampart You told me to adjust the camera angle to front with the WZ 122 TM on flat ground, now your telling me that he is shooting down angle, you just don't have a point... If your believing your own fallacy without considering it then I'm not the one being delusional

[ancient rampart]

(My image left, Your image right) Yeah bro totally flat ground not at an downward angle at all

[lost crane]

What mt are more armoured than the 122TM in t8 ?
@queen geyser yes, and imo it’s better, but it does have low alpha, and weaker hull, but it can be good to compare other stat (mobility, gun efficiency…)

And panther 2 have some armor, but the turret isn’t armored at all

[spring leaf]

Your image is for detail while mine is for accuracy

@lost crane The Panther II perhaps?

Yes

[queen geyser]

I my opinion Cent 5/1 is more reliable armored, at least thats what im feeling like, especially since it has more gundepresso

Bro panther 2 ? U for real ? Out of all options ? Panther 2 ? I cant take this serious anymore

[scenic kindle]

^

[ancient rampart]

Uh oh guys 122TM has bad armor that means we should buff it

Literally cobalt in a nutshell

(just ignore the 248mm on flat ground no one will ever know!)

[spring leaf]

Your forgetting the most accurate view in history...

[lost crane]

And you forgetting this : the skill

[marsh belfry]

• you are using tiger ii for example which is a bad argument with how high the penetration is when you will be fighting meds in wz instead
• the wz in your picture isnt even angled, your argument is invalid
• also whats up with all these lacking armor stuff when you are just going to use turret??

id say cope harder bro

@spring leaf you wont fight meds all the time, but thats what you will fight most, and mind you not every tank have tiger ii level of penetration.
what you feel is not objective and is more of a you issue
and honestly you also have severe problem of skill issue

[spring leaf]

Well you have evidence of my stats I fear...

@marsh belfry Sounds like a nonsensical argument, will I be fighting only meds? 🤦🏻🤦🏻

If you want the WZ to be angled you can simply say so, and have you considered the gun dep and that it feels like 6°?

[waxen osprey]

How is "feels like 6 degrees" even an argument lol

[lost crane]

Yes, i have seen, but if you can’t angle in flat ground, I can do nothing for you 🤷‍♂️

[scenic kindle]

🍿

[spring leaf]

Bro I have been playing over 13K battles so you can't teach me how to angle. And on top of that the sides are 70mm so you'd have to be very careful, infact angling on flat ground doesn't change the front armour much

[gloomy anchor]

Angling on flat ground give you more chances to bounce shots with your upper and lower plates

[marsh belfry]

if you have enough experience you should already know how much angling is required, literally every other medium suffer even more on flat ground with not a single shed of armor on their hull.
and honestly your so called experience doesnt seem valid

[spring leaf]

Your telling me about a tank you don't even have, nor even have information on, yet no matter how much I show armour inspector it's useless, because I simply just cannot help overconfident people

[unique scaffold]

lol yall are funny

[marsh belfry]

you are so confident you are right about all you said but look how things turns out.

talk about overconfident

also fun fact 10k gold is not an obnoxious amount as you made it be even for f2p🤪

@spring leaf i have enough general experience to say that you have massive skill issue

[spring leaf]

Says the person without experience...

[subtle mica]

This guy is still at it 💀💀💀💀

[ancient rampart]

I have experience in the KPZ 70 therefor it should go 60kmh and have 300mm of armor covering the entire front of the tank while having 280mm of pen

[queen geyser]

Sounds valid

[lost crane]

Your damn right, and I have experience in the type 71 and it need 50kmh and 3,4K dpm 🤣

[spring leaf]

It doesn't take a braincell to know Kpz does not require a buff because it's already good and has a strong turret for a T9 heavy tank, also that pen is pointless 😂

@unique scaffold Actually I didn't mention anyone, and I don't care what you say either, infact what y'all saying is so hopeless

@marsh belfry You don't know that 🙂

[marsh belfry]

and it doesnt take a braincell to know 122tm doesnt require a buff either 😎

@spring leaf oh i know more than you thats for sure 😄
and all you said are also pointless so

[spring leaf]

Please don't mix WT and blitz please thank you

Well, It seems you have nothing to do... All you do is post unnecessary comments

And those can be posted in the #general-blitz-discussion channel
Because there is no need for your fallacies here 🙂

[queen geyser]

I care for Entertainment reasons, still need to drive 4h by train

[marsh belfry]

no one is mixing stuff, oh wait you mix up reality with your own delusion sorry 😂

[wooden lynx]

Obviously the T34 will butter through the WZ 122 TM, the T34 is the highest penetration values for a heavy in Tier 8

[marsh belfry]

well you do nothing but whine about your ever so special wz that require buff (spoiler: it doesnt need any)
all your argument previously have been pointless either so you have no right😘

@spring leaf i work part time in a farm, i touch grass everyday 😄

[wooden lynx]

You have 13k games how about you go touch some grass and stop whining.

@spring leaf I go outside everyday with my friends, you haven't went outside for the last year.

[queen geyser]

Guys this kinda lead into nowhere

Why dont we agree on disagree make a handshake 🤝 and move on

[wind flower]

End of topic

No need to discuss WZ anymore

[gleaming apex]

thermonucleicacid#0 has been warned.

[spring leaf]

Hmm?

[wooden lynx]

He won't stop, he literally got banned last time and now he's still at it.

Also massive skill issue this is why WG doesn't listen to our suggestions @spring leaf

Ok I be quiet now🤐

[wind flower]

End of topic means end of it.

Any further discussion of the same topic will result in moderation action

[leaden flare]

Back in the day I could've made the end joke but I had to rename

[unique scaffold]

the below 50% winrate in question:

[spring leaf]

Where is that rule located?

[lost crane]

It’s sad but I understand. Lets talk about other t8 mt and the problem of heavy meta in t8

[wooden lynx]

Thoughts about Leopard 1 changes?

[unique scaffold]

there is no heavy meta in tier 8 lol

[gleaming apex]

kreuger1437#0 was muted.

[spring leaf]

Really?

This topic was ended long ago

[lost crane]

Which mt can you use in tournaments ? They’re lacking hp, dpm, alpha, armor, and some ht are too much mobile.

[gleaming apex]

qxkkzwk#0 was muted.

[storm spoke]

Some MTs are playable in t8, like the lorraine or cent 5/1, defender, etc, though the overhwelming majority of tanks is sharks sherifs and 53tp

[ancient rampart]

Don’t forget the Cent 5/1

[waxen osprey]

Since when was the cent 7/1 tier 8 😂

[scenic kindle]

shhhhh don’t tell him

[storm spoke]

😵‍💫

[real oasis]

the E-100 changes doesn't make sense , E-100 did'nt need alpha changes it needed reload reduce or turret ring buff it has nothing to do with alpha

[ancient rampart]

E 100 didn’t need anything it was fine

[forest ridge]

we haven't talked about Chinese tds in a long time because it's so irrelevant

[waxen osprey]

nah wz-113GFT gonna be cooking big time next update

[remote oriole]

I still wonder why WG didn‘t make the whole balancing team administrators and just ban anyone who dares even mention balancing

[wind flower]

because the guy has been going at it for more than an hour at this point? also resorting to insulting people and being rude in general?

[honest knot]

the E100's turret is fine and unpenable at the right angle... never nedeed an armor buff. Alpha buff is to motivate people to grind that tech tree again

[clear shuttle]

not really

[real oasis]

im talking about the turret ring also e100 needed that armor buff because its a heavy tank heavy tanks know for being hard to penetrate and that where you're wrong and E-100 is one of the most popular tanks in tier 10 and people love the tank and most of them have it

[honest knot]

Oh my bad... yeah the turret ring is a bit weak but its not that easy to pen... no need to buff it tbh :/

[stuck acorn]

any further armor buff to E100 is an absolute stupidity

It's definetly not like turret ring is the ONLY part of the tank that can be reliably hit and penned if E100 has hidden lower plate. And that's only when E100's turret is not angled. E100 is already stupidly strong, buffing it's armor even more would absolutely break it.

Ah also, before somebody will come here and complain that it has wekapspot on top - no i don't consider this belt on top as a reliable weakspot. E100 is incredibly tall, hitting it is nearly impossible without high ground

[real oasis]

its not a smasher or something to be called "stupidly strong" the tank is strong but not broken you're probably playing EMIL 2 with no gold shells also the lower plate is a common weak spot for every tank

[stuck acorn]

Sorry, but this is reality. E100 may not be as strong as smasher tier for tier, but it's way stronger than it should ever be, honestly even with it's old turret armor it was already very good. I'm also not playing Emil 2 since it's boring as hell and i could be playing basically anything since i have every tank in the game. Regardless of what you play unless it has like 370+ pen, E100's armor is basically untouchable when properly angled.

And lower plate is a weakspot just as i mentioned above, but it can't be only weakspot. Unless you want to go into toxic hulldown meta even further.

Lower plate is laughably easy to hide and as E100 has fairly strong sides, you don't even need gun depression or properly sized obstacles allowing you to show only turret to do that, just side scrape.

[ancient rampart]

Use armor inspector

[nimble zodiac]

The entire point of E100 is "haha I shoot you for more than you shoot me" unless it pokes TDs, but then outtrades them anwyays because E100 has nearly 3k HP

[stuck acorn]

you forgot that E100 has 7 degrees of gun depression. Using even a part of that will add additional 30-40mm of effective armor

In fact using even half of these 7 degrees should be enough to withstand 340 heat with calibrated (374)

[drowsy plaza]

While face on at max depression it can get penned by CS HEAT heavies - if it angles and is hiding lower plate it’s next to impenetrable

In fact the Ho-Ri is about the only tank that the E100 can’t just sit and angle with. Even the JPE with CS (and I doubt anyone is really running CS on it) HEAT can’t pen an E100 using improved armor at depression and turret offset.

[drowsy plaza]

Now if you sit in the open and allow reds to pen you easily early game, well nothing is going to stand up. (*apologies for the one screen shot - my wife sent me an iMessage game)

[nimble zodiac]

You better have won that 8-Ball

[unique scaffold]

How do i reduce chance of getting ammo racked

[winged barn]

Dont show ammo rack

[unique scaffold]

Omg ur right

[stuck acorn]

don't buy anything that is chinese, russian or it's name starts with 6 and ends with 0TP

[thorny timber]

This is some real guide to not getting ammoracked

[void siren]

And don’t show your massive German sides to the enemy

[spring leaf]

Don't run in the open, plan before you move, or run improved modules if you are still bad at this

@stuck acorn Wot? Ive being playing Chinese and Russian tanks for a long time now and I've never been ammoracked in them, no matter how bad the teams are, especially in the Chinese tanks

[slender latch]

That's irrelevant nowadays 60TPs, WZs, and IS7s barely get ammoracked now unlike a year ago maybe due to rebalancing or module changes

[stuck acorn]

https://tenor.com/view/joke-missed-over-your-head-gif-8604199

[spring leaf]

The above comment can help

[fickle shoal]

when kpz 70 speed and terrain resistance buff?

(Trying to steer away from goober above me)

[stuck acorn]

As far as i know, there were no changes in module HP or anything this kind recently. Maybe 60TP's ammo could've been fixed right after release since within 40 battles i played at the day of it's release i blew it up 7 times, it was a plague back then, but nothing more than that and it had to happen in very next update or even earlier in some minor patch.

People just learned how to lower the chances of getting ammoracked in tanks especially prone to this issue. These tanks still tend to blow up very often after receiving well aimed shots from high caliber guns when compared to others, it's just not as often as it used to.

Also the whole message was a joke, so no need to tak it seariously

[fickle shoal]

my tvp can also pepper is7 and 60's ammo racks, it's funny

[slender latch]

Yeah I'm not sure how WG does it but must be a shadow buff or smth in the ammorack but I just find it really cringe like a year ago people spam #DontBuyIS7 but even that thing dominated tier 10 even with a weak ammorack lol

[wooden lynx]

I got HE'd in my Type 62 by a T49 and all my modules got damaged...

[spring leaf]

T49 has a 152mm gun and HE overall does spalling damage so it has a high chance of resulting in module damages and crew injuries despite the build, and the Type 62 is also a light tank

In WoT PC, just by setting a tank on fire can also result in multiple module damages and can also lead to an ammorack

IS-7 has several ammorack locations that's why normally you'd get ammoracked if not played well, but the ammorack frequency got reduced in an update

Not really, some are similar to russian counterparts but in most cases when russian tanks would usually have 210/220 for their ammorack the Chinese has an average 240 for their ammorack strength, it's just the meds mainly has less than 240, but it's still very hard to ammorack if played properly. And the locations of the ammorack makes it even better

[wooden lynx]

Chinese modules are quite weak though, and for the IS-7 I say the only thing I don't like is that the position of the ammorack which is quite atrocious...

But overall it is a strong ammorack

[stone drum]

IS-7 has good ammorack placem

[wooden lynx]

It is a strong tank, and will definitely be busted next update with the addition of Tungsten that is effective for 3 shots.

@stone drum I don't like that you get shot in the upper plate and get damaged ammorack... Well tbf it does have black holes for side armour...

[spring leaf]

I wouldn't say that, because they nerfed the shot velocity and maneuvering ability for consumables and provisions

IS-6 also has a troll side armour 😔

[wooden lynx]

The tank was already good in so many fields... All it had lacking was premium pen, and in 10.3 it will get 17mm of APCR pen which is bonkers

Plus the tank is still quick compared to the other heavies and yes the armour is troll.

And it is also getting 2550 HP BASE next update...

It traded so little decreases in exchange of what it needed the most which is the premium pen...

@spring leaf the IS-7 is getting 2550 HP base in 10.3 with the addition of Tungsten and premium pen increase.

Take note the tungsten is effective for 3 shots as if the tank doesn't hit hard already.

If you're going to be using it to frontline shell velocity won't be much of a problem.

[spring leaf]

I didn't know they would buff the pen, and what is getting 2550 hp next update?

I hope it makes sense, because a slow shot velocity can be rediculous

Yeah if your face hugging or fighting under 100m it should work fine...

At first though I thought you meant the 121

[nimble zodiac]

Might I ask where this troll side armor is?

It's just a 30mm sheet, it doesn't troll any shells, especially not in the way IS-3 and IS-7 does

[spring leaf]

The spaced armour at the middle side?

Well, it easily absorbs my 203-260mm shells (AP only)

It's literally the same spaced armour as the IS-5 or probably worse because it's much larger

A nice BH for shots

[nimble zodiac]

Yeah it's not troll armor at all, that area just blocks shells better like a well-armored plate. It gets an extra 30mm spaced armor plate, so you probably shouldn't shoot there. Even the shoulder is a better option, or the upper half of the track wheels, or the upper side.

While IS-5 does have a 30mm plate, that plate actually conceals a very angled armor plate, so that can be considered a troll plate. It's not just being effective at face value. IS-6 does not have the pike design on its sides

[spring leaf]

Tbh, the IS-5's spaced armour is not as troll as the IS-6's side spaced armour...

You'd have to shoot slightly below that part or it will go to the ground instead

Löwe has good pen but are you sure you didn't hit below that part?

[nimble zodiac]

The area you covered (which I assume means what you’re referring to) is just well angled, that’s all. Treat it like something you don’t normally shoot at.

I’ve had zero problems against IS-6’s side. Though mainly that’s because I have a Löwe

[wooden lynx]

I think IS-5 is just better than IS-6

[spring leaf]

Nope not at the fullest, IS-5 just has a stronger turret and probably better mobility and top speed, but the IS-6 first gun reloads extremely fast and IMO the slope armour is just better

And the IS-5 just has a slightly better stat than the IS-6's second gun that's all

[stone drum]

IS-7 upperplate is all but impenetrable to the vast majority of enemies you will face further more the weakest part of the upperplate does not have an ammorack behind it.

@the.doge which strv???

@wooden lynx yeah that 320mm of apcr penetration will be absolutely insane. The general tendency of blitz players to exaggerate the extent too which given changes effect gameplay is nauseating.

[wooden lynx]

But I ammoracked an IS-7 with my Grille in the front like last week

[spring leaf]

Normally, it's when you overmatch a very strong part of the IS-7's upper hull it gets racked, not the weakest parts

[cedar socket]

the tier 10 the strvk, sucks

someone deleted my other comment

[nimble zodiac]

Gotta play it differently

[stone drum]

I certainly wouldn't say it "sucks" as you put it, however I would agree that the changes that it is receiving are questionable, but I must digress. I do however find the guns overall handling profile to be lack luster & in that sense given the magnitude of the buffs to such are sufficient I do think that it could emerge potentially a more enjoyable tank.

I personally am of the stance that if they would slightly enhance the top speeds (to 48/18) in addition to the terrain resistances (too 104/94/64) and shell velocity (too 1300/1478/1173) that the tank would feel better.

[stone drum]

That's not a definite, it could very well be that he is unhappy with his Strv k's fuel consumption and how it "sucks" down oil.

@chilly token I'm quite certain that in a wheel chair I could move faster than a kranvagn.

[chilly token]

If you hate strv armor, just play kranvagn, atleast it is free

[nimble zodiac]

Oh hey, they removed reactions from this channel

[cedar socket]

i would say it shows a lack of caring

[cedar socket]

they nerfed the vast majority of its aspects

[stone drum]

Bruh, they nerfed foch dispersion on the single shot by Like .03 with zero compensation??? What is wrong with them???? It was already a bad gun.

[twin egret]

darn, I'm gonna miss all those 💀 and 🤡 reactions. They were really helpful indicators on what to avoid reading

[mortal falcon]

Generally, this entire channel

[unique scaffold]

Fix mm

[civic topaz]

Thank me later 🌹

[nimble zodiac]

🤔
That's a threat

[civic topaz]

Is it?

[stone drum]

honestly I'm quite glad they are gone.

[civic topaz]

So am I

[nimble zodiac]

How am I gonna ratio anybody now? 😰

[civic topaz]

You have to send a letter now 🤔

Or a pigeon

[stone drum]

Verstappen might help with that, lol.

[scenic olive]

Does anyone know how much traverse speed the amx 50b got? just askin cus open test started today

[loud junco]

Buff Sheridan

[remote sluice]

its already good, there is no reason why it needs any buffs

[loud junco]

Bad aim time bad pen Soo bad that I can't explain. and they NERF Sheridan again

[keen dew]

cry about it, its already amazing

[solid sequoia]

Sheri is busted atm, it needs the nerf lol

[loud junco]

Sheridan needs his ATGM'S

[fickle shoal]

no.

[wicked quest]

Never will happen again

[fickle shoal]

if they ever came back they would just be a reskinned heat shell with zero controllability

[loud junco]

Just make atgm cost 7K credits and yes
Pretty Balanced Sheridan

[wicked quest]

Lol no.

It was broken

[quartz snow]

Make it 50k per ATGM and a max of 2 ATGMs then itll be balanced

@loud junco make it 15k per ATGM and limit it to 3 ATGMs so no spam

[loud junco]

That's too expensive reduce it and 2K .atmg caunt is too low make it 5 and it's okay

[wicked quest]

It’s never coming back

[loud junco]

Wargaming owner is my dad I just Gona ask him

[wicked quest]

🦗🦗

[stone drum]

It's getting an Aimtime buff.

[remote sluice]

sheridan w calibrated shells gets 341mm heat pen wdym bad pen?

bad aim time? get closer to the enemy and make sure the team is w u when u do that

it didnt need the nerf, but it doesnt need any buffs either. its also getting an aim time buff mind u, the only thing thats nerfed is the view range and shell speed which wont affect the tank much

also no atgms. sheridan is good w heat

[stone drum]

230 apcr:

[shrewd crag]

Me: Well then.
Me and the community: Why Are they Nerfing the Grill again.

I hate the fact they are destroying the Grill and meanwhile they are buffing Ho ri (which is already strong and it definitely needs nerf on its mobility and gun mostly the on move disperssion and accuracy and slight reduction on penetration and dmg on prammo)

[stone drum]

Lol ho-ri certainly doesn't need a nerf.

And if you think grille got destroyed, literally look at the other changes, grille got barely hit.

[wooden lynx]

Look at my poor 215b and Vickers Light

[shrewd crag]

Man the alpha dmg was the key factor of Grill.
It hits hard when it had 640 alp. And now in 10.3 its going to be 580.
I know its gaining dpm but what about the lower tiers.
Wt auf pz iv and rhm will have 580 alp in the next update.
Which is annoying the fact that Grill doesn't have a good camo value which is the main problem of the dmg reduction.
You can just play ho ri and do better.
Because ho ri just beats Grill in most factors like armor,camo,accuracy on move. Even tho Grill has advantage on dpm and slightly beats on dmg per shot.
Its still makes it worth lesser that the past Grill.
I don't mean to say the Grill will be unplayable but it needs to peek more which is a downside for the fact it gives enemies an opening to shoot grill.
I much prefer it have the OG 640 or give it 660 or 670 alp with 13 to 15s of reload time.

[cold palm]

Fr dude, as it is now, I prefer to play with the Waffle over the grille just for the turret

[remote sluice]

241mm w calibrated shells. thats good enuf for me

[main tulip]

Doesn't matter if it's good enough for you, a tank has bad pen if it is notably worse than the majority of the competition.

[fringe quest]

The new 50b armor

[modest vault]

As it should be

[harsh ravine]

is there a screenshot of the new FV215B’s armor profile?

Really concerned itll be significant.

[fickle shoal]

or lack of

@harsh ravine look on HRF's stream, there's a part he's fighting a hulldown 215b, it's a tragedy

[fringe quest]

Real

[twin egret]

it's really significant, 330 butters through it way too easily, stb's premium ammo butters through it like nothing

[slender latch]

They should give grille something like a higher alpha or camo. At this point WT is still better tier for tier.

[spring leaf]

It now becomes the worst medium 😂

[clear shuttle]

i wouldn’t call a tank that you can clip someone for 1520 a “worst medium”

[leaden flare]

I just hope they clean up that T57 Armor layout
That tank has so many stupid auto bounce angles on that turret

[twin egret]

I think fatness got around to showcasing it on his stream iirc? Not sure

[ionic sinew]

Against what?

[ionic sinew]

How looks nerf for carro mobility?

[humble depot]

The Ho-Ri is definitely not broken. It has below-average damage for the caliber, which it compensates for by having excellent penetration and insanely good Prammo. It doesn’t need a nerf.

I can understand WG’s angle on the Grille at this point. They want to make the thing kind of like a Hellcat in a way. It would help if they had ever done that remodel WoT PC almost did back in 2017. Honestly the biggest limiting factor on this is the lack of a fully rotating turret. If they fixed that (which this remodel would’ve done), then it would work.

[remote sluice]

they could give the grille two options

a 580 alpha gun w a fully traversable turret but poor accuracy to force the tank out of camping (like the remodel above)

and a 640 alpha gun w the current limited turret traverse, but is balanced out by insane accuracy (basically old grille)

this will give the tank two different playstyles and make it even more interesting to play

edit: fair enuf. i hate campers even tho their tank is designed to camp

[humble depot]

I disagree because I hate toxic bush camping.

[mental thistle]

Has to be a hori lookin at 50b

[stone drum]

It's not, 50b had its hull armour removed.

[orchid grove]

That's actually pain
I'm ngl, I definitely relied on getting a few troll bounces every now and then with the 50 B. WIth the hull armor gone there's no chance of that happening anymore

[wise pewter]

i thought they'd at least keep the hull armour bit

[stone drum]

Yes, but it got massive traverse & aimtime buffs.

Btw e4 had its new hp & dpm removed and its old dispersion returned. It seems WG agreed with you on e4s role.

[arctic osprey]

can anyone link the complete list of changes or point me in the right direction? have googled and searched reddit and havent been able to easily find a compiked list.

[wise pewter]

#coming-soon message from here onwards

[wise pewter]

e5 armour is even stronger now... plus extra dpm

[thorny timber]

another day spent hulldown.

[twilit crystal]

But it got 2 more kmh top speed

[slender latch]

Why did E3 even get an HP buff and removing the ret cal on it was pointless since no one actually uses it on a frontline TD while E4 gets its pen nerfed for just +2km top speed

[solid sequoia]

Everyone uses the E3 as a frontline TD lol, that’s the only thing it can do

[spring leaf]

But how can it be considered a heavy without armour lol and it has mobility of a medium aswell

[outer glen]

Now its a light tank armor with heavy tank weight and size 💀

[void siren]

...and a td autoloader

[harsh ravine]

All for a 2 kmh increase.

The turret cheek is now susceptible to standard ammo…

@solid sequoia Its not justified, just like the IS-4 changes. Nobody asked for this. Ruined it’s turret just for a 2 kmh increase, nice joke.

[stone drum]

Overall it's a good change for 50b, better aimtime & traverse in exchange for the excess armour.

[outer glen]

Tbh i hope they give it like 8-9 gd and max speed to 40km and buff the reverse speed to -15/-16 like s conq reverse speed

[solid sequoia]

Barely susceptible, and pretty much everything is getting pen nerfs

[twilit crystal]

e4 was pretty op though.

[fringe quest]

Wow just wow,over a 2 km/h boost sad

[ionic sinew]

How IS-4 armor is looking?

[feral scroll]

Is my discord bugging or did they remove bc25t reactions 💀 #coming-soon message

[scenic olive]

I think this is actually a pretty big nerf, the armour on the 50b is alot more important than most people think. Idk why they did that it’s way overkill, they could have just demolished all the turret armor and maybe the lower plate and it would have been fine with the buffs it got😔

[slender latch]

I don't think it was since it is limited by its 6° gun dep and weak cupola or armor. But after DPM buff there was a reason to use it than just E3.

[stone drum]

Honestly I'm very glad they removed most of the armour, the tank never relied on it in the first place. The actual thing has like 85mm of turret armour & 60mm of hull armour with roughlt 90mm on the "prow" or beak.

[shrewd remnant]

With PBR, the E4 will have a much smaller hatch, close to half the size as it is now. We’ll how that affects it but it seems like a buff to me.

[night geode]

the fact is even the wot version still have the same size with the non-pbr of wotb, seems like they did this on purpose.
im curious to know if they do the same thing with the pbr version of E3 too

[scenic olive]

I understand why most people think this but you do rely on the armor to an extent, people just think they don’t cus everyone just thinks of the 50b as a fast,unarmored heavy, which it is, but the front get so many bounces that save ur butt like I played the 50b the other day and got a 6k game where I bounced 1.6k damage, if I hadn’t I would have died. My point is you won’t be able to bait the hull or get those troll bounces off the turret anymore which saves u alot more than u think.

[twilit crystal]

Imo they should give it 250 hp

[queen geyser]

I understand completly your point, but maybe you should think in a bigger picture, maybe think of it that way: the way amx 50b is now (current Patch) is way diffrent to what the amx 50b should be
Or at least what it should be according to my opinion

It should be a not armored fast heavy tank, which can hit hard rly hard in the right Situation (a huge clip)
The Tank (in my opinion) should feature a rly bad armor in the trade of a good Mobility and a very good gun (which is lacking atm which is why I like the aimtime change)
Overall I think the changes are good for the game (dosnt rly mean that the tank is stronger then before but its more healthy for the game for sure and because of that a good change)

[scenic olive]

Well I would be fine with the armor change if it got more traverse speed, it barely has 40💀 and I don’t understand why they don’t just make it go 20 in reverse, the 60tp has way more armor and still goes 20 backwards. Just give it like 45 traverse speed and make it go 20 backwards and it would be really 👍 but ya you right about saying that it shouldn’t have armor but at least buff the mobility a bit more than they did or leave the armor the same🤷‍♀️

[queen geyser]

I agree with you, they should have compensated more

[drowsy plaza]

The 60TP goes 15kph backwards but it should go about 7kph backwards…

[stone drum]

I don't know where you get 7kph from since first off its not even a real vehicle and in that sense its impossible to know what it's reverse speed would actually be. Secondly generally IS-series tanks had comparatively fast reverse speeds.

@scenic olive 50b will be fine, it never needed armour. I have bounced like 5k in 50b before, but instances where you bounce are less common than instances where that extra aimtime will help connect a shot.

[scenic olive]

It goes 20 with gear oil bro. @queen geyser ya it’s still gonna be my fav tier 10 but I wish they did better with balancing it😔

[scenic olive]

I’m not saying it needed it but I liked having it cus of how much it saves u, OR they could actually buff the traverse speed by a good amount and buff reverse to 20 and nuke the armor which is what I would prefer , I mean it is suppose to be one of the most mobile tier 10 hevs right?

[ancient rampart]

7km/h reverse would be unplayable

[nimble zodiac]

I don’t see the problem. It punishes the player for overextending, and drives it away from the alpha + HP combo abuse

[ancient rampart]

60TP just needs to lose gear oil so it can't go 40kmh anymore

[stone drum]

yoh with a broken track now reverses faster than that...

That's incredibly awful for blitz.
10kph is already pushing the fringe of awful reverse speed.

[scenic olive]

Is it just me, or does the cs-63 look like hot garbage rn?

[spring leaf]

It seems like only highly mobile meds rev at 20 km/h

[stuck acorn]

They should just remove gear oil or remove it's effect on reverse speed.

Base reverse is fine, it's gear oil that causes the problem

Additional 4kph forward is acceptable. 4kph backwards is not.

[stone drum]

Or they could make it so instead of adding to the value it switches the value for reverse speed, lol.

[clear shuttle]

its all right

[granite pebble]

@stone drum have you seen that they actually buffed the armor on the AMX M4?

[stone drum]

Yes and I'm very happy they did.

Now If we can just get them to Nerf the pen to 245/295 and make the shells AP again then the AMX won't be a (total) loss.

[final warren]

Has anyone in the open test tried the WZ 132-1?

Or is the open test not available yet?

[clear shuttle]

#open-test-announcements

[final warren]

That doesn't really answer my original question

[stone drum]

Yes, it's not as good as they said it would be.
(No pen buff)

[final warren]

Oh. So it's just a straight nerf then?

[stone drum]

basically

@final warren It has Like 3.25k dpm
Otherwise it feels almost identical to smaller leopard pta.

[final warren]

Thank you for checking for me.

So it lost 300 ish dpm just for a small alpha/view range buff... That's lovely.

Ah well, it probably would've been too OP with that huge pen buff combined with the other great buffs it was going to get.

[twin egret]

Tfw the fv215b (183) got buffed more reasonably than the fv215b

[past vale]

No pen buff? That was honestly the only thing I was waiting for. Such a shame

[twilit crystal]

Lmao wg

[stone drum]

Sorry I'm dense it has 238-237 ap now?

@granite pebble check #general-blitz-discussion
I'm just bad.

[granite pebble]

So they didn't even go through with the changes they said were gonna happen?

Truly a WheelchairGaming moment.

[final warren]

Ah then it got the buff then. Still, it's an overall nerf. 238 pen isn't compensation for losing that much dpm

[austere citrus]

Just give the tank some op camp

[stone drum]

True, but atleast they acknowledged exactly what they did wrong and made a move, albeit a minor one to resolve it. They just need to tack on some more 750 more dpm.

[final warren]

Yeah, that's true. Personally, 230 pen was enough for me and the way I played, but 238 pen will be a tiny bit less painful.

Oh well, maybe next year it'll get an actual buff lol

[scenic olive]

Dude the t62a is looking nice, it basically everything I wanted the 140 to be except it’s missing troll side armor, but the upper plate on that thing is ridiculous especially with a bunch of vehicles getting apcr as standard.

[stone drum]

Honestly I see it two ways, either it needs more armour or more dpm than leopard 1, otherwise it's just worse.

[final warren]

Well if it had slightly less dpm than the Leo, it would just be a low profile version of it. The "light tank" Leo if you will.

I would love that concept, because my issue with the Leo is the size/camo.

I also prefer the tank to have 330 alpha and low reload over the high alpha/reload. It would differentiate it more, and I like perma tracking people lol

[stone drum]

ngl I think it would be cool to have 350 heat

[twilit crystal]

i mean it does have a bit more armor than the leo but still its about the same as the 140.

[stone drum]

It's still basically a wet toilet paper roll held up by bamboo toothpicks.

[shy wren]

I prefer it having the larger alpha and longer reload, as you can really abuse the spotting system of the Wz with it.

[kindred holly]

I still think 50b in 10.3 is not that good, it needs intra clip reload buff not magazine buff

[solid sequoia]

Nah it’s fine

[shrewd crag]

Abusing the armor inspector

[shrewd crag]

Hmmm.

[ornate warren]

Lmao

[jovial aurora]

lets see how all the feedback for the changes get ignored 💀

[final warren]

I just wish they didn't think they needed to nerf the dpm to give it higher alpha

[frank bone]

Its fine, every td deserves to be ruined

[humble depot]

Why? It’s just another boring bush camper.

[stone drum]

I disagree, that's just a crappy way of thinking.

[night geode]

im happy with 690 alpha rather than armor

[solid sequoia]

It’s fine tbh, basically back to how it was before pbr, and it hits other buffs alongside the armor nerf

[stone drum]

It's actually quite a fair bit less

[peak sonnet]

Hello

[chilly crane]

A

[solid sequoia]

”it got no buffs!”
ignores the gun buffs

[night geode]

the armor is good enough to get random bounce from medium, anyways i always rush medium side with 268, it feels unfair with that speed, fair balance👌
also dont forget the fact that in the next rebalance it can deal over 860 sometimes

grille laughing in the corner

[lone sandal]

YES, finally something is being done about the 268s new armour profile, rare W from wg, and to compensate for the armour nerfs they're also buffing the gun, which just makes the tank more enjoyable to use and especially to play against

[night geode]

thats what it is and its not just the case with 268.
there are lot of bad rebalances and we can do nothing about it anyway🤷‍♂️
but im so happy with tvp rebalance

[lone sandal]

honest reaction to new vk72 and vk90 armour profile

[night geode]

++++++

[turbid ice]

You shouldn’t play 268 like that anyways and there’s the 113GFT with better armor in the next update

[solid sequoia]

Alpha was buffed and reload wasn’t nerfed so yes, the dpm was in fact buffed.

[slender latch]

The image on the right should have shown it at the same angle as the left image to see how it looks head on. From 250mm-218mm that's kinda big nerf on the lower plate tho.

Edit: thanks I was confused at first but the slider shows the 10.2 and 10.3 versions. Much appreciated.

[solid sequoia]

You prove that you cannot properly do math. You claim the dpm wasn’t buffed. But if the average damage gets buffed, and the reload stays the same, then the dpm was in fact buffed. It’s not a hard concept. And on the armor, you just have to wiggle it, like you had to wiggle it before, it really doesn’t change much about the tank. It’s still pretty mobile with an even harder hitting gun now

[slender latch]

Mobility wise tho I think 268/v4 is on par now with 268 after it's top speed buff but having more armor

[solid sequoia]

268/4 doesn’t have the p/w to match the 268, nor does it have the same reliability in its gun.

@spare totem if you can’t wiggle properly, that’s a you problem. Wiggling it quite easy in the 268, and you’re angling the armor so much that tanks will need prammo to reliably go through, or they’ll sit there looking at you for 10 seconds. And yes, the dpm was clearly buffed lmao, you even sent an image saying it was buffed. You also have no idea what my stats are, and I don’t know yours, but judging by the fact that you seemingly rely on armor to play well, I’m going to assume much like you did that your stats aren’t great.

[stone drum]

The 268 got a relative small dpm buff, only about 90 or so dpm.

@spare totem I'm not part of this slinging context, I'm only providing objective facts.

[solid sequoia]

The image you presented clearly showed that when angled the armor works. If you wiggle, you get angles. At angles, the armor works. Is it really that hard to understand? The 268 has enough traverse that wiggling will work, as long as you do it properly. The 268 never had a reliable armor profile.m, and I’d you’re so good in this tank, you should know how to properly wiggle. The alpha buff is pretty big, as you’re already on a mobile chassis, so being able to hit things harder is better. You are quite literally resorting to insulting me because I am coming up with reasonable arguments that you can’t disprove. Stop being immature, start realizing that the tank was in fact buffed, and deal with it.

[nimble zodiac]

I actually get annoyed when people call armor paper when HE can’t even get through it

[solid sequoia]

If you truly cannot cope with the fact that you still have to wiggle the 268, just trade. It’s being given the third highest alpha in game lmao, it can easily outtrade almost anything

[nimble zodiac]

Especially when heavy tanks have to aim when you flip on a single piece of equipment. On a tank that isn’t even meant to block damage.

[solid sequoia]

You’ve just disproved every argument I had by showing an image against 255/257mm of pen… when almost everything is getting it’s penetration nerfed. You’ve quite literally helped show that wiggling does indeed work, as if you wiggle, you will make the cheeks red, and the 268 can wiggle quite fast. Thanks for helping me out! And again, if you truly cannot cope with the armor nerf, just trade. 690 is the third highest alpha in game, and it’s on a mobile chassis.

[nimble zodiac]

I’m not a reroll but okay 🗿

Also bro doesn’t know how normalization works 💀💀💀

[slender latch]

Is this final stat changes on the E4 if yes I think it's not worth it for that extra +2kmh top speed buff also an HP nerf

[solid sequoia]

M48, T100, E50M getting APCR, all penetration nerfs lol. Now who has reading comprehension issues? Also, I never said just mediums, a lot of tanks are getting APCR instead of AP and just getting straight pen nerfs. And the armor was never the end all, be all of the 268. It’s meant to be a hard hitting gun on a fast chassis, which is is with the third highest alpha in the game on a TD that is relatively mobile.

Again, if you truly can’t cope with the armor, just trade. You’re fast and have the third highest alpha in game. 1 for 1 you outtrade everything but 3 tanks, the Jageroo which you’re faster than, the 183 which you’re faster than, and the 268/4 which you’re faster than.

[nimble zodiac]

245 AP is better than 250 APCR 🤔
Crazy, many tanks are losing that helping hand that helps them penetrate armor

[stone drum]

Give AMX m4 mle. 54 that 245 ap.

[distant river]

The 268 isn't meant to be an impenetrable vehicle
It's a hard hitting gun on a fairly mobile chassis, it has adequate armour to bounce a fair amount of shots but you should not be sitting still expecting to bounce everything

[solid sequoia]

Exactly, you face lights and meds, which you out trade even more lmao

[nimble zodiac]

So we’re just gonna fire gold and take a loss of alpha and get out-traded harder?

I don’t mind the shell switches to meds, but in terms of Obj. 268, they’re going to have a more difficult time penetrating it, just like you want

“there is no armour to wiggle, it can be penned at any angle by every tier 10 medium.” Already far disproven

[lone sandal]

why do you think the 268 is meant to block damage, well yes its meant to have some armour, but right now it has uhm too much tbh

[solid sequoia]

Peek > shoot > get into cover. If you don’t have cover in any turretless TD, you’re dead, no matter what you’re in or how much armor you have.

[nimble zodiac]

1. I dunno, you’re pretending Obj. 268 can’t shoot anyone without being shot back at, despite being a TD that can sometimes use range to engage targets.
2. You most certainly got disproven, the main armor plates are all red against the standard medium shells, granted that the APCR is going to be the new standard for many of them

Man they’re gonna nerf the armor anyways, oh well

[ancient rampart]

Alpha and camo

[solid sequoia]

The 268 has a pretty hefty alpha advantage over the grille, meaning it needs to peek less in order to get the same damage.

[lone sandal]

268 will still have better camo better alpha better pen better modules better gd on the front and better traverse (?)

[nimble zodiac]

I was talking about the current 268, I didn't know you were whining about a future change, apologies.

Maybe you'll realize 268 isn't about armor

[lone sandal]

that doesn't nullify the camo

not sure why you'd bring up shell velocity because according to you 268 is a frontline tank

yes, higher alpha is good for single shots, which is a good thing for tanks with less armour when you think about it cause that would mean they have to peek less to deal a certain amount of dmg

it does not nullify the camo

it can still frontline in 10.3, it has the alpha to out trade and scare pretty much any tank it faces, it has great traverse, it has great mobility, well it'd probably be more of a second line front line mix but it can still frontline for sure

i would love to know what better and safer options there are though

[void siren]

<@&481447501690568709>

[void siren]

counterpoint:
obj 704

[stone drum]

lol foch with singleshot... more reliable than 268...

[lone sandal]

foch?
ok have a nice day

[ancient rampart]

Foch is garbage

268 is solid

[stone drum]

As of 10.3, with the single shot, foch is basically just worse than 268.

@void siren yes that garbage gun handling causes it to bounce half it's shots.

[void siren]

Foch gets bounces

[ancient rampart]

Nerf?

The 268 is straight up getting buffed

[void siren]

(the entire tank isn't red to standard boo hoo)

[shy wren]

They could modify the spotting mechanism to be 6s and modify the reload by a smidge, so it would be more effective at ambushing while maintaining the current DPM

[ancient rampart]

The tank isn’t meant to have amazing armor (still more than the ISU and 704 in their tiers)

It’s a 2nd line TD

It’s trading away that armor for a huge buff to its gun

Let’s also not forget it has the best camo out of every other TD in tier 10

[stone drum]

Foch has worse handling than 268, worse gun depression, worse gun arc, worse camo, worse reverse speed, worse traverse, worse penetration, worse alpha, and finally after the update it will even have worse accuracy.

Not to mention 268 prammo will have almost the same alpha as fochs standard.

[shy wren]

Armor of the 268 is meant to be troll, not reliable. After all, the 268's chassis is based on the IS-8/T-10, which is not renowned for its armor, no?

[zenith steppe]

I’m sorry but the 268 doesn’t need all that Armour. I don’t know the exact stats on the 268 but I do know it has one of the best (if not the best) camos on any TDs. In a bush it’s basically invisible. The gun has one of the highest pens in the game next the jag and hori and the alpha hits harder than a lot of TDs.
Giving it reliable Armour with all of that is just asking it to be broken. It doesn’t need reliable Armour. It just needs something that sometimes works. It’s not a heavy, it’s a second line TD. I can play the grille with no Armour while not camping I don’t see why you couldn’t do the same in the 268 which has decent mobility and a hard hitting gun.

[ancient rampart]

It’s getting better aimtime and dispersion and its 20 alpha not 50

670 alpha to 690 is still fairly significant when nothing else hits that hard except the 183 and Jageroo

Especially when it boasts the best tier 10 TD camo rating

[void siren]

The E 100:

[scenic olive]

Are the blitz hangar changes the official changes wg are going through with? The e5 got a pretty significant traverse nerf along with a lot of other vehicles that were not mentioned to have a traverse nerf. Why would they nerf e5 traverse, it was already extremely average

[stuck acorn]

They literally just took it from open test

[scenic olive]

I wish they gave e5 hull traverse speed instead of the turret traverse but it still got buffed and it’s gonna be pretty good so I can’t complain too much🤷‍♂️

[zenith steppe]

I never said you had to camp, I was just saying it's ability to stay invisible in a bush is insane. Even as a second line tank because of the camo from a certain distance heavies have no chance of spotting you (until you fire) but if you're playing it right you're behind cover before they can shoot you again.

It's armour after nerf will be enough to get bounces and stuff from mediums and lights occasionally. You're not meant to have reliable armour in a td with mobility that good. With the 268's traverse speed, it can wiggle to get bounces and that's good enough, similar to the hori. Plus the 268 has the gun mantle going for it anyways. HEAT shells like to bounce the gun when wiggling so that's a pretty good counter for meds & lights already.

You're complaining about the gun but it's honestly it should stay that way. Give it an accurate gun and that promotes camping really, we already have a grille in the game, we don't need a second one with armour and much better camo.

[scenic olive]

Is it getting a gun buff though? According to blitz hangar it’s just getting higher alpha💀unless this is a mistake from blitz hangar, I think these changes are the ones wg decided to go through with😔

[real bison]

the foch's gun arc kinda undermines it

[scenic olive]

Wow I’m looking at blitz hangar and they nerfed a lot of stuff that wasn’t mentioned in the original changes that wg posted, and 268 literally is just getting worse imo, their only buffing the alpha by 20 so it can lose all its armor 😭😭 for some reason wg thought buffing the gun handling also was too much.

[wicked quest]

Have you not seen current 268 thing is entirely red thanks to its new model as of now

[unique scaffold]

Yo

If IS-7 will have tungsten would the is-8 have tungsten or not?

[austere citrus]

Is3 and is8 line should get upper plate buff ngl. Absolute garbage tanks (tbh not needing is fine since I’m an emil 1 player)

[queen geyser]

Is8 is pretty alrighty, i loved the Tank, could maybe get some more Mobility

[main tulip]

IS-8 is excellent

[scenic olive]

It doesn’t matter if it’s gonna get nerfed to crap next update 😂😭

[solid sequoia]

Neither are garbage lmao

[slender latch]

What WG be smoking thinking Jagd E100 needs tungsten lol but nice buff on its traverse

[frozen vine]

Excuse me, but why? There is no reason, to shoot HESH ammo, when you can shoot Apcr's with better penetration with 350 alfa dmg

[willow hawk]

A lot of balance changes don’t make sense. Charioteer was nerfed before because it had tier 10 HESH. Nerfing it was the right thing to do. Now…nerfing it again = throwing the tank into the trash 🗑️

[twin egret]

Play the 268 and pretend it's a foch

[rotund cipher]

buff the ST-I penetration cuz it’s so garbage, I can’t even penetrate T-54 LTWT. IN THE BACK

[frozen vine]

I have feeling, these changes will put 10% of tanks in to garbage state. 5% in to Meta state and rest is good... But this is just destroying tank, that doesnt need it...

[willow hawk]

Legends install a mod to make 268 look like a Foch via skin mod 😃
@frozen vine WG did say, they believe in a hierarchy of tank “balance.” They intend to have some tanks explicitly better than others, then rotate them out to “make things interesting.” This train of thought is bluntly nonsensical. Balance cannot exist if there is intentional imbalance of tanks. There would be no purpose for WG to employ a “balance department” if they decide to continue this belief of tank hierarchy.

[frozen vine]

Sounds Like Strv K, release OP garbage, sell as most of it for good profit, nerf that tank. But release Obj. 777 in crates so they could make Quick money and just to be sure, buff the tank and put it in to roulette (sorry, Wargaming doesnt like that word, its "draw event")... Sounds for me like balancing their revenues, not tanks 🙂

[ancient rampart]

it has the second best pen out of tier 9 heavies lol
If you can't pen with 258mm then you suck

[stone drum]

On release strv k wasn't even op... lol. It was just tourney meta.

[fickle shoal]

I know your message is old, but 2 km/h for a turret that can get buttered by a good amount of pramo and standard isn't a fair trade

[rotund cipher]

What are you talking about

[willow hawk]

It’s also a good way to lose player base trust and retention. And they wonder why people are leaving the game. I’ve been seeing desperate ads for Blitz, strained efforts to attract new players with collabs and visual effects, new avenues of monetization and new currency. These are early indicators of a dying game.
One of the root causes to Blitz dying is … yes, you guessed it…weird and illogical balance changes made in-game. Instead of approaching the problem directly, WG is dancing around the glaringly obvious issue by adding unnecessary game features to attract new players.

[ancient rampart]

sounds like a skill issue

[rotund cipher]

Bro it has 225mm (upgraded) and 175 with stock. It just sucks

[frozen vine]

Yeah, time to change once again reviews on Google Play & AppStore & Windows Store to 1 star.

[ancient rampart]

Use the Tier X gun then you doofus

ST-I's best gun has some of the best pen in the tier

[nimble zodiac]

For tier 9 heavies, anyways

The accuracy is fine, just max your tank and crew first

[rotund cipher]

That doesn’t fix accuracy tho

[ancient rampart]

Max out your crew and run refined gun if dispersion is a issue

[winged barn]

nObOdY uSeS HeSh aNyMoRe sO wE gAvE It HeAt ~ wegee next update

[twin egret]

Blind fire bushes

[willow hawk]

Buff charioteer armor by 1.2 mm. Nerf gun reload by 0.8 seconds. Dispersion nerfed to 0.39.
WG: “We want to make playing at longer distances less comfortable.”

[steep pike]

i've played like 50 matches now with the T-100 TL, and personally i feel like this tank should get 75 km/h maximum speed instead of currently like 68.

that would allow quicker switches between positions (before your team dies)

[fickle shoal]

rat tank gets rattier (joke)

[twilit crystal]

most tier x lights other than the sheri should go 72 kmh

[stuck acorn]

But, that should be at the cost of all of their armor. And when i say all, i mean all. Even medium tank HE should be able to slice through them without any problems

[ancient rampart]

SP I C :)

[fringe quest]

https://tenor.com/view/skill-issue-idk-man-skill-issue-idk-man-seems-like-a-gif-24725965

[stone drum]

They would need Like 10mm of armour because medium tank he is absolutely crap

I mean T-62a can barely pen tier 7 lights like AMX-13 frontally with he, because 50mm is basically useless.

[granite pebble]

WG on there way to lie about the things they're doing to tanks or do borderline nothing in some regard to disguise something as a "rebalance" despite it being outright nerfs or buffs.

60TP Loses basically nothing but gains alpha and aim time.

The Grille lost terrain resistance on medium terrain so on 90% of maps it's even worse on top of having a gun that's effectively worse.

The carro didnt "slightly" gain armor, it became insanely good at hulldown.

That's not even counting the other changes that happened but didn't even get noted, such as the E4 losing the 250hp that it gained here recently.

10.3 isn't even going to be an update that's worth coming back for.

Jesus dude.

[acoustic estuary]

Maus is worth tho. 😁

[twilit crystal]

60tp gains a bit of aim time but turret dispersion otm is worse. Sort of evens out overall. sure it gains alpha at no dpm cost but it loses a decent bit of both standard and premium pen

[ancient rampart]

60Tp is gonna struggle to pen things with standard like the KPZ 70
APCR as standard is so sad
The alpha and HP buff are nice

[willow wraith]

thank you for your constant battle in the name of the foch line

[forest ridge]

Yeah I'm never playing tier 10 if it actually is bad
I hope they actually don't do this to other tiers

[subtle egret]

vickers CR and wt is literally better than vickers light and grille now

[stone drum]

Thank you

[solid canyon]

What page or program is this?

[ancient rampart]

Left image is blitzhanger right image is armor inspector

[remote sluice]

he has my full support. foch is criminally underlooked. it has sooooo much potential to be a unique and fun tank, but now it is kinda in a strange place where it cant rlly do well at being an autoloading 155mm boom stick

@stone drum keep battling my gud lad

[solid canyon]

Thanks

[ornate warren]

Yeah its Facts,

I m just wondering what was wg thinking when they decided to dump its unique autoloader to trash and put a boring autoloader setup with boring playstyle, with additionally boring alpha

[remote sluice]

i platooned w my friend last night, and while bro was doing 700+ in his 268, im stuck w doing puny 500 dmg rolls. its boring as hell rlly

the old 600 alpha foch should make its comeback but w 5s intraclip and like 680 HE alpha so it cant one clip grilles

[ornate warren]

Exactly,

the long intraclip autoloader was actually enabling the tank to be more versatile in most scenarios, and that was my favourite part about the foch, nowadays its hard to find the same old versatility even tho the single shot gun reminds of it

[slender latch]

E3 shouldn't get that +150HP buff imo as they didn't need to compensate the removal of ret cal but maybe buff it in different aspects instead

[clear shuttle]

all it really does is makes it so it can survive frontlines longer

[azure marten]

Blitzhangar gets things wrong from time to time, you never know

[twin egret]

Because the HE is meant for splashing most of the time and HE'ing rears

[frozen vine]

Checked on OpenTest, BlitzHangar is not wrong

[azure marten]

Idk then

[remote sluice]

now its just dump ur clip then crawl back into hiding

[ornate warren]

it would sound pretty boring even for a guy who dont know about the game at all lol

[stiff idol]

opinion on wz113 change?

[solid scaffold]

It's a W for me, standard pen was horrible that spamming gold in the 113 is a must.
Dispersion and handling got nerfed but compensated by aim time buff, plus it was a brawler anyway and ya got some mobility buff on top of it.
Also 20 alpha nerf but i think the tank is still gonna be good in 10.3

[slender latch]

They could add improved suspension equipment onto 215B or 113

[stone drum]

Foch 155 should he rocking like 800 alpha on HE, grille already has spall liner so thats not an issue anymore.

[stone drum]

WG please nerf AMX m4 mle. 54's hard terrain resistance & keep the Buffed frontal armour from opentest for my birthday 🥳 (which is today, lol)

[thorny timber]

I know this isn't related to this channel but happy birthday m8,I do agree with the foch HE buff though

[willow wraith]

@stone drum how would u rebalance fcm 50t

[stone drum]

I would Honestly slightly nerf the dispersion to .345 base & nerf the engine power to like 850-900 then drop it into tier 7 as a heavy tank.

Theirs no point in completely changing the tank, attempting to salvage it into tier 8.

[frank bone]

And buff the heat pen to 330/325 305 for a ht is a joke

[nimble zodiac]

I like that it only encourages it to bully medium tanks with the newfound speed and less penetration to use against heavy tanks

[frank bone]

^^^ and i dont want to have more medium yolo type of tanks, we alr have strvk, e6, 260, is7 (?).

[twilit crystal]

240 alpha and 15% more armor on hull and turret. Half a more rof

[nimble zodiac]

2750 DPM 😳

[twilit crystal]

Oh woops thought the fcm had 2200 dpm with rammer. Take away the half rpm. All tier 8 88 or 90 mm meds should get 240 alpha

[ornate warren]

Happy birthday mate 🎉

[stuck acorn]

Well some parts of these tanks are highly angled, but all of them have some flat parts as well. Those with 30-40mm raw armor should be pennable.

I didn't say a whole tank needs to be penetrable for medium tank's HE. When it comes to shells with 80 or more pen, they should be all butter, without any exceptions. Only sheridan could still have it's anti HE protection due to spaced armor as unique factor, but it would naturally be slower than other lights

[remote sluice]

hmm fair enough

[fickle shoal]

(nothing to do with messages above)

KPZ-70 terrain resistance, engine power and top speed buff, with some trimming on armor and on-the-move dispersion, and maybe... maybe give it type 71 equipment, to maybe act in the way that the hydropneumatic suspension would have irl

Because the DPM for the gun is absolutely fine, The mobility just feels off for what the thing is, a first gen MBT

[twilit crystal]

yeah kpz hits hard . It has almost the same dpm as most tier 9 460 tanks which is poor but it still can hit for 560

[glad cove]

Not a single thought on how broken the xm66f is?

It's the going to be the best medium and light killing td with insane mobility

However it doesn't look like it will do all that well against heavies
But the xm66f's armor profile is pretty busted

[solid sequoia]

It’s mobility really isn’t that good lol

[scenic olive]

It’s ugly though🤢

[twin egret]

It looks like a sitting toad when looking at it from behind

[novel ruin]

WG when more Canadian tanks

[bold dagger]

id remind players that when discussing test tanks that aren't added to the game fully yet: understand that the current statistics of the tanks are not final and its important to wait until the tank(s) are fully released until speculating too much on its role and status

[mortal falcon]

if you havent played it then dont cry about it, one look at the paper stats and armor profile tells you the tank is frustrating at best

and itll probably be changed a lot anyways so no point worrying

[winter dagger]

I want them to give the fcm a bit more acceleration and more frontal armor, so it acts like the heavium version of the CDC, and maybe increase alpha to 240 imo

[scenic olive]

Lol

[lyric zephyr]

ahahahah

[stuck acorn]

Well yeah, WT could be better than grill now yet again, but Vickers CR is most certainly not better than vickers light since it also got it's alpha decreased to 300 and that's without reload compensation.

It has less DPM than most T8 meds now

[subtle egret]

vickers CR got nerfed too?

[stuck acorn]

It could've been mistake because what's interesting they nerfed only standard ammo and left prammo also at 300 alpha, but yeah, on OT Vickers CR got nerfed

[subtle egret]

i see

[fair pebble]

Hey devs, instead of “balancing” the tanks, how about you fix the game crash bug? I got 5G internet, brand new PC and phone, and the game still lags and crashes. Fix that instead of rebalancing every teir X

[stone drum]

Why would you want to loose on movement dispersion??? It's what makes KPZ unique??

[stone drum]

Honestly that doesn't matter because the reload didn't get buffed.

[humble depot]

And what Canadian tanks could WG add that aren’t just clones from other nations?

[fickle shoal]

It'll be zooming at 50 km/h trying to make a shot, probs be a little bloomy, it wouldn't increase by much, but enough to not make it a laser

[acoustic estuary]

Shink, with a 4 clip. And each salva is like 3 shots. Kinda like leopard. They could give it an unique mechanic that if 1 gun is broken 1 shell slot is removed in the clip until fixed. Easy money. Take my money for those boxes.

[humble depot]

No. The Skink would make no sense in the game.

[acoustic estuary]

Why though. Why wouldn’t it.

[humble depot]

Because it’s an AA vehicle with multiple low-caliber guns. It’s not like it could have the double-barrel mechanic, because two of the guns are mounted high on the turret.

Plus, how would it be balanced? At best, you’d have Panzer IIJ situation where the gun is awful but the armour is great.

[stone drum]

So basically you want a sheridan, if you don't want an accurate gun, don't play kpz 70.

[acoustic estuary]

Doesn’t need to be good, could be fun. In tier 5 could be a good place. Give it like a 400dmg clip and there ya go. Hard to do high dmg but you do at least some dmg. People would buy it, at least i think. I certainly would.

[amber bone]

guys when update come ?

[acoustic estuary]

Would just be a premium equivalent to gain credits in fun tier 5 tank like leopard. For people who don’t want to always lose credits.

[fickle shoal]

I don't mean shotgun level dispersion, only otm, nowhere else. and the Sheridan doesn't have armor, well, actual armor

[timber maple]

Wow a whole 3days of premium time in the Operation Pass... OOOOOO thats ssoooo much. Maaaaan the operation pass has gotten worse and worse and now even cost more for what? Worse stuff? Kinda wwack

[acoustic estuary]

Pass is optimal, it is to help players grow a bit. The game would be pay to progress and that would unfun for f2p players.

[mortal falcon]

It’s pay to win already. We’ve long crossed the bridge of treating F2P players nicely.

[acoustic estuary]

How is it p2w. 🤔
WG be gifting tanks like candy at Halloween.
Gifting tanks like kids giving cookies and milk to santa. What do you want more?

Yes some premiums are better and that’s fine, but nothing is gamebreaking.

[humble depot]

How? It’s not like you need to pay for Prammo, or to get a good number of premiums. There are constant events that let players obtain resources, vehicles, and other things. A person who doesn’t want to pay doesn’t have to if they want to have fun. How is it P2W?

[twin egret]

(he doesn't have the ads for gold pop up)

[acoustic estuary]

You can still watch streams and that’s basically a free tank t8 normally. And events normally include a t6-7.

[fickle shoal]

Abs you can farm ads and get 1-2 tanks from auction if you plan ahead

[remote blaze]

Does the 50 TP prototype got any nerfs/buffs in past?

[drowsy plaza]

Sure there are some unhealthy balanced Premiums, but generally they see another due to MM, the best the game offers is pay to advance. Which generally means pay to lose if you are a poor player as they outrun their headlights and end up averaging less damage in higher tiers than they did with the bots.

[acoustic estuary]

Your not mod anymore?

[mortal falcon]

This past comp season begs to differ

@acoustic estuary

"Yes some premiums are better" 💀

Congratulations on defining "pay-to-win".

@humble depot
And no, I'm not free to play. I've spent a couple hundred dollars on this game, probably around $1000. It is definitely very pay-to-win. Even disregarding the fact the two "meta" tanks of the past season were 777v2 and particularly Strv K (tanks locked behind a very expensive paywall in form of crates), the performance of Tier 8 premiums versus tech-tree counterparts among 55-65% players should be more than enough to demonstrate that any reasonably competent player will generally perform best in "meta premium vehicles".

"Pay to win" is exactly that. You can play the game for free, but you can pay to win more games. And good luck saving up enough gold to charm out a Strv K - that's about 50k gold to charm out, or 1000 days of ads. With new clan missions let's call that closer to 900 or 800. If Wargaming decides to print comp meta tanks in lootboxes, you cannot consistently get these vehicles without paying. You simply will not have enough "free income" to do so.

This also doesn't include the paywalls which require hard cash, no ability for gold purchase.

[solid sequoia]

No

[acoustic estuary]

Doesn’t make you win.
Premiums tank help as they should, but some premiums are given like candy as said.

And again, if those tanks are locked behind a paywall no one has them, so it’s not gamebreaking. And as far as i am aware they don’t have 10k dpm with 30zilion pen and goes mach 10.

[mortal falcon]

Matchmaker also will only force Annihilator vs. Annihilator matchups. Every other tank will just fight its opposing class, more or less. @drowsy plaza

@acoustic estuary If a tank is locked behind a paywall then people who PAY have them and people who DON'T, WON'T. Genuine L take. Do you even read the words you're spewing?
Pay to win = pay for a competitive advantage. Not necessarily literally paying $5 to instantly win the match.
Why don't you play say, the KV-4 against someone in a T54E2? Will you have fun? Will you win, for that matter? Obviously assuming equal skill level.

For the images you show, it's just as silly. Obvious trolls. And this does not change the fact that some of the best vehicles in this game are not easily accessible for free.

There is a difference between being tired of the normal whining in this server ("omg i hate wg p2w") and being blindly ignorant of the realities of this game. Unless you're somehow incapable of winning more in a Chimera versus, say, a T-34-2. (Nothing will fix a lack of game ability, but different vehicles certainly compensate for them.)

And I think we've heard enough complaints about the Smasher and Annihilator to know both are hideously broken. Annihilator to the point WG has to adjust the matchmaking around it because of how obscene its performance is - biggest proof of presence of p2w in this game.

Summary: reality of the game is that there is definite pay-to-win aspects in it and it is silly to pretend like they don't exist. That is the entire business model of WG here. I'm not really complaining because I benefit from this, but neither am I delusional enough to pretend like it's 100% skill supporting my wins.

[acoustic estuary]

Are you saying that 2 tanks makes the game p2w lmao? Premiums offer a little advantage. Also i dont think you know that you can watch ads for gold. And gold isnt rare in events. Wg is giving out free loot and you're ungrateful. Play some EA games and you will see p2w. Wotb isnt a p2w game.

[winter dagger]

No he meant those are the two most obvious examples (I still lost to tech tree tanks in a Lorraine soo)

[humble depot]

Then you don’t know what P2W means. Pay to win means that you have to pay for good tanks, for equipment, and for all other sorts of things to have a fighting chance. Blitz doesn’t have that. Matches are determined more by player skill than by who has the most money. Good players do well in bad tanks and bad players play poorly in good tanks. Your point is moot.

[granite pebble]

Feel like you're mixing up what "pay to win" means with a paid advantage. Quite frankly there isn't a single premium that actually gives an advantage so extreme that you're going to win more than you lose.

Most premiums are mediocre, some are above average, and others are OP, but even the most OP tank in the game isn't going to make a 45%er all of a sudden start having a 55% wr in that tank, they're still bad, they're still going to perform badly, and them playing that tank is hardly an issue.

The strongest tier 8 premiums require you to have decent game knowledge at the very least in order to maximize their value, the 752 does as well, and so does the Badger and the AMX M4 Mle as well.
Pay to win implies that buying and playing these tanks is going to give such an extreme advantage that they would have to actively try to grief themselves to do poorly.

These tanks are literally just "Pay for a strong tank", considering there are many many tech tree tanks that rival the strongest premiums.

[mortal falcon]

finally someone here with more than 3 brain cells

@granite pebble If you can pay for an advantage inaccessible/relatively inacessible to others, that's paying to win. It's literally that simple. Imagine if CS:GO or Valorant allowed you to buy a better AK-47/Vandal that didn't need to reload and had no recoil. Still has the same time-to-kill as a normal AK and won't save you against a pro, but I have a feeling those communities would have meltdowns over such a clearly pay-to-win weapon.

And yet you're here arguing that a paywalled "OP" tank isn't "pay to win". Even after this past comp season was dominated by a crate tank

@acoustic estuary "I'm ungrateful" my brother in the Lord, I literally said this benefits me. I have spent almost a thousand dollars on my main. I have all these overpowered tanks I've mentioned across multiple accounts. I've also played EA games and quite frankly, they're better monetization-wise. They just have really unfun core gameplay/gameplay that doesn't appeal to me.

[keen dew]

almost 1k
lol already passed that

this game isnt p2w at all

[mortal falcon]

"On my main account."

I have multiple.

I kind of do not want to tally up everything else because I'd probably want to cry after looking at the final number.

Gotta love how the only argument I hear, disregarding any of my points, is "omg completely new players and trolls do poorly so they must be balanced and not p2w!", or, "some premiums aren't overpowered"! Despite me saying there are pay-to-win elements in the form of the blatantly overpowered premiums, and how short of literally making each round an auction you can't actually guarantee a win. Average Blitz Official conversation

[stone drum]

Lol p2w, you casually cherry picked an example, literally anyone else can do that with two vehicles. Infact some of the worst performing vehicles ingame are premiums lol for example pit a 53tp against an IS-6 or IS-6.

@mortal falcon you truely are one to speak; if you can't calmy discuss your point of view, you simply don't belong here. I recommend you get some rest & find a quality therapist.

[mortal falcon]

Oh my rat you literally can't read

[stone drum]

People who think blitz is pay to win should honestly watch some videos of the old WOT, back when gold ammo was only available for well, gold. That was entirely a straight upgrade from regular ammunition only available through spending real world currency & as such could be considered a form of pay-to-win.

Premium tanks in blitz do not follow the same scheme, while their are certainly excessively strong tanks available for real world currency, they generally do not provide an overall gameplay advantage that cannot be matched by free to play players without spending cash.

In otherwords Premium tanks are overwhelmingly never straight upgrades of tech tree tanks, however if WG say released an identical copy of the Pershing with 300 more dpm, 5kph more top speed, and super speed boost with zero downsides versus the original pershing it could absolutely be considered pay to win if their was no other viable alternative available to free to play players of similar or equivalent power.

@main tulip I haven't ever bought premium account and I have something like 90 days, lol.

[winter dagger]

I mean I own a smasher, and I don't play it because it's unfair how good it is, and thus boring and flat because you have an outright advantage. Now if you lack braincells to play it though... Anyways, wotb is partially P2W imo

[main tulip]

The only "P2W" that I would complain about is that quality of life is absolutely horrible without premium account.

[mortal falcon]

About that Pershing: the Fixer exists, and it's impossible to fully upgrade without spending money

• The Cromwell B was literally just better Cromwell for years
• The Helsing was more broken than the Annihilator on launch
• The IS-3D was the most powerful Tier 8 in the game (literally same as IS-3 but autoloaded, flat out better) and was capable of going head-to-head against Tier X tanks

More modern examples...

• The Strv K literally made every single heavium and medium irrelevant
• The 777vII is arguably just a better IS-4 or 113
• The Smasher is just a turreted SU-152 (flat out better) or an upgraded KV-2, if you prefer
• The Shark has Tier 10 levels of turret armor at Tier 8
• The 252U is still just a better IS-3 in every way

blah blah blah

Also, the prammo thing was in Blitz too. WoT PC is more pay-to-win as well (rather, it's necessary to pay). I'm not sure what your argument here is. Just because there is a larger pile of manure nextdoors, does not change the fact I still have a large, stinky pile of excrement sitting in front of me.

Again, I've spent enough to where this benefits me. I don't know why you think I'm complaining or whining. I'm just stating the truth of this game. Boggles me how you bend over backwards to try and defend an obvious fact.

[winter dagger]

You forgot the type 57 is a direct upgrade over the 252u, which kinda proves your point in a way, I feel like this only effects mainly tier 8 and below although, because 10.3 = strv k = useless

[mortal falcon]

Oh right that thing exists lol, I kind of just stopped caring ever since the 252u and the 120-1FT

[granite pebble]

I mean I question how the Strv K is going to be useless with borderline nothing changing about it's armor, it lost about 100 base dpm, and just lost the engine boost.

It's still going to be a strong tank but it isn't just going to invalidate mediums anymore, especially considering the Concept barely even got touched, so its main potential competition isn't even going to invalidate it like we thought.

[twilit crystal]

lol fixer is a better super pershing but regular pershing is way better. 500 dpm isn't a joke

[winter dagger]

Well it lost super speed boost too, and t95e6 gained DPM. Strv also lost turret armor, so useless because, 260 has armor now, t95e6 has the better gun and mobility, what does the strv k hold against them? Not much

[stone drum]

Cromwell B has been given away for free, multiple times with zero effort.

helsing I have no counter to
IS-3D is overwhelmingly considered crap now, that was a different time, lol.

Your comically overstating Strv k's strength. It has very high raw potential due to the dpm + hp combo which is why it's used.

777v2 still has advantages & disadvantages over the two tanks you mentioned, it's not really a direct upgrade

Smasher being an upgraded KV-2 is basically the same arguement as Super hellcat being paw to win for being a better hellcat a tier higher... lol. Smasher is still overcooked, but their are other equally overcooked tier 7 tech tree tanks cough T29 cough.

IS-3 has a better turret than shark and I can't remember anyone calling it op because of its turret armour. God forbid you shoot the cupola

except for the fact 252 has a worse gun than IS-3 and is also significantly less Mobile.

Also no, I don't believe your legitimately whinning about p2w, I'm simply stating its now nearly as bad as your think. Can you gain an advantage from paying? Of course you do. Do you gain a tremendous advantage over f2p players? No.

@granite pebble the concern is basically e6 will exsist and basically be it, but just better.

[mortal falcon]

I did separate these things into "old Blitz" and "newer Blitz"

@granite pebble @stone drum Not really overstating Strv K's strength lol this isn't exactly hyperbole. I understand its a more difficult tank to play but just look at the past comp season.

oh and it is getting demolished with 10.3. It'll be balanced and fun but not anywhere as overpowered as now.

[fickle shoal]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-popcorn-eating-gif-18107571

[stone drum]

have you played the tank on open test?
(Serious inquiry)

@mortal falcon I don't think the tank will be bad, just somewhat redundant in light of the t95e6 getting Buffed. If they just didn't buff the t95e6 & gave the strv k slighty better otm dispersion & reverse speed (.01/.01 & 1kph better respectively) it would have been a better rebalance for the tank.

[mortal falcon]

No I have not. I have played enough of the tank currently to understand it's pretty overpowered, and enough of the game in general to understand that cutting its dpm and speed boost (in addition to armor i guess) is pretty crippling from the comp aspect. Again, not saying it'll be bad necessarily, but it will not be nearly as good as now. Need to make distinction clear.

[winter dagger]

Also it gets a funny consumable: get shot and take less damage consumable

[granite pebble]

I mean yeah the E6 exists and has similar gun handling, but one of the main things the Strv K has over it is having more usable armor which isn't changing because it's gun mantlet is unchanged, and the turret roof is still auto bounce.

The dpm is going to be on par with the E6, they get the same gimmick, the Strv will have more armor and health still, the only thing that Strv K will genuinely be suffering is in regards to it's mobility.
Like the tank is still going to be strong.

[mortal falcon]

Is that a new change? Interesting. That might change things comp-wise but pub-wise the reactive really doesn't help as much imo

[stone drum]

It's not getting reactive armour.

@granite pebble yeah, but e6 is sitting with 50 more alpha, 330 heat, and better mobility. They seriously should not have Buffed e6 dpm.

[granite pebble]

I mean yeah, it has more alpha and mobility but it trades armor and health for it, there are situations where either tank will have its own benefits over the other.

Really the only thing I think they should've done to help the Strv K be completely up to par with the E6 is up the hp/t by like 1.5 across the board so it's just a bit slower on average

Also it's best to keep in mind that it's 310 APCR vs 330 HEAT, albeit the 2 degrees of normalization won't cover the 20 difference in pen, it will still cover enough to make the difference not nearly as much an issue.

Albeit HEAT is generally better due to ignoring auto-bounce since there's not really a whole lot of spaced armor on the front of tanks at T10.

[winter dagger]

I know the armor is still better than the cardboard the E6 was built with, but the main selling point was the strv k having speed and DPM, although it's strong in pubs after this change happens, its gonna be exiled from comp until who knows when it'll come back. And you forgot the checks on the strv k is getting nerfed which I forgot to specify, @stone drum I don't look at patch notes very often so forgive the mistake on the reactive consumable @granite pebble ^^

[granite pebble]

I mean yeah, it won't be a comp tank, my point was more so that the tank won't be getting trashed or even made useless, it's getting nerfed in a way it deserves, albeit it does deserve to have a mobility buff so it's a true alternative to the E6

[winter dagger]

The mobility being slower is what made me see the nail in the coffin for it, and if you really want armor and not bad speed with good DPM, the buffed e5 is honestly best of both worlds

[stone drum]

Alternatively they could have just nerfed the crap out of it & made it a complete meme vehicle that went like 60kph with an absolutely horrendous hesh gun.

[granite pebble]

I think there's still hope for the Strv, since WG occasionally does change their initial idea for balancing.

But yeah E5 kinda just... Outclasses them both, let's be honest here

[winter dagger]

E5 meta back again 🙏

[slender latch]

Kinda regretting not buying the E6 on the auction hope they sell it in like 10k gold this halloween or somth

[winter dagger]

They will make absolute bank

[remote sluice]

sounds like fv4202 to me lol

[winter dagger]

It does have a cent turret so...

[twin egret]

WG refuses to properly model it so...
The vehicle had an internal gun mantlet
The vehicle could mount many guns of different caliber (all the way up to a 130mm, though 120mm could realistically fit iirc)
Ugly track wheel sprockets at the rear count as primary armour
The boxes on the turret don't act as spaced armour
Turret is wrongly shaped

[fickle shoal]

When they give it PBR they might fix it

might

[twin egret]

Oh yeah, the front hull is incorrectly modeled atm

[stone drum]

Look at the PC Fv4202, kt even worse.

[humble depot]

The PC 4202 is a Tier VIII premium.

[stone drum]

Yes, but it manages to be even uglier and malformed. I hope they just make a new blitz pbr model for that reason.

[glad cove]

Let's face it war gaming isn't fixing an entire front of a tank when they can't fix some of the American track wheels
They also made the su 130pm scarface camo super pixelated

[whole nimbus]

HWK 30 is a waste of money its just a nerfed ru 251 it also always gets put in teir 9 battles

[twin egret]

People who are saying it's a worse ru 251 are literally don't know anything about it lol

It's a tier 7, not a tier 8. Ofc it would be worse than a tier 8, why would people expect it to be on par with it?

[spring leaf]

How do you know when a tank has PBR different from the rest?

Even though the graphics changed it might also go unnoticed...

[whole nimbus]

@twin egret what are you going on about it is a teir 8.💀🤣 Perhaps u didnt look at its teir properly?👀

[twin egret]

Oh, the hell, Im pretty it was a tier 7 previously a long time ago. I didn't know it's a tier 8 💀

[whole nimbus]

it needs a major buff like its damage is exactly the same it has a little less speed then ru 251 and only difference it has the slightest bit more armour which doesn't even make a difference no one gonna buy it if it doesn't get a buff practically a copy and paste

[void siren]

It’s for snipin - dispersion is significantly better

It also has 3 more depression

[lost crane]

Where do you see the 3 more gun dep ?

[orchid grove]

You can’t see it in those stats. Both have -10 over the sides, but RU only has -6 over the front, and the HWK has -9 over the front

[twin egret]

-5.8 actually

[lost crane]

Thanks for the clarification, I didn't know the front dep of the hwk 30. The hwk 30 is therefore a little better than I thought, but despite everything, I think that the RU 251 remains the best

[stone drum]

It also appears frontally more resistant to HE.

[keen dew]

lekpz bulldog the best

[orchid grove]

And this is evidence of cheating how?

[void siren]

I use blitzhangar for frontal depression and blitzstars for highest in all angles

[wicked quest]

Reminds me of this wonderful post of over a year ago

[errant anchor]

It's also still just a worse ru!

Might as well buy a lekpz if you wanted some premium similar enough to ru

[orchid grove]

Have you ever considered that… YOU are the noob? You are not losing because of your team. Your team is losing because of YOU. Statistically, your matchmaking is already better than you think. With your average damage numbers, your winrate should be way lower than it is

[void siren]

You are the noob

[orchid grove]

This is one battle. Everyone loses battles as top damage. That’s normal, matchmaking is random, so you’ll get unlucky teams sometimes.

It’s meaningless, and you didn’t even do that much. For all we know, you were camping at the back, leaving your team down a top tier heavy and just did all your damage at the end when the outcome was already decided.

But over the long run, you are the deciding factor in causing your team to lose in most battles. You’re already getting really lucky matchmaking overall

[errant anchor]

Omg it's marquis the goat!

[void siren]

Damage per battle: 1230…?

[nimble zodiac]

@lunar lantern Play the game with me and I will prove to you that MM isn't rigged, I just threw your games

Oh I thought this wasn't balance discussion. Guys take it out before the 183 finishes loading HESH

[orchid grove]

You can enable your team to do more damage. If you play aggressive, you can create opportunities for them. If you clear tanks off their flanks, ypi can stop them from getting crossfired. If you help hold the line against an enemy push, you can prevent them from getting steamrolled.

And the fact of the matter is that your DPB and DPM numbers are horrific. During the important mid-game, you’re barely playing better than an AFK.

[thorny timber]

where light tanks update,they need to be more of a light considering the heavies doing all the work,including spotting sometimes

[gleaming apex]

Le Marquis de Sade#2540 was banned.

[winter dagger]

Well it should be in tier seven imo because it's just paying 50k gold (charms) to get a worse ru-251 which is free... Don't buy it, this is the t25 pilot fiasco all over again

[analog tide]

Rip is 4 , now every tier ten and 9 tank can pen his upper plate with premium

[winter dagger]

Too late, his ammo rack got blown up

[unique scaffold]

Bonjour

[stone drum]

You need to speak English here or you will be muted.

(L'anglais est obligatoire ici)

[mortal falcon]

Tbh matches are usually decided by the first or second minute of the game nowadays.

[stuck acorn]

i literally said it in a message just above the one you replied to

[stone drum]

Sorry, I didn't read that one.

[winter dagger]

More like in the first 30 seconds cause map knowledge, positioning, and lineups, because those can determine if you can carry or not

[mortal falcon]

never underestimate the ability of a pubbie to throw the easiest of wins

[winter dagger]

The one afk or the one tvp that yolos into the enemy team 😭

[final warren]

It has been this way for many years, that's nothing new

[twilit crystal]

Yup check positives simulation thread on the forum

[teal quail]

why is part of the obj 263 an actual part of the tank people can pen (frontally) and do damage to the tank.

[solid sequoia]

That’s spaced armor lol, not actual armor

[nimble zodiac]

Real

[granite pebble]

It doesn't help that the black dog exists either, with better alpha across the board, dpm, and mobility.

Like, why in god's name would I play a light tank that trades being slightly resistant to HE, slightly better camo and view range for it's gun performance, and mobility.

Like if you want a premium alternative to the RU, the black dog exists and does the job just fine, especially when it comes to the HE DPM.

Yeah that's true, the black dog is also usually bundled with actually decent tanks too, making it overall even cheaper to get.

[wicked quest]

Black dog is superior to RU tbh it controls far better and is much more compact compared to how long and wide Ru is