tank-balance-discussion

[clear shuttle]

they’d have to pretty much butcher something else about the tank for it to get its 640 alpha back
ive heard “things” about the foch when it was released and how it pretty much more or less dominated in certain areas

[remote sluice]

true that, idk whats going on w them when they gave the foch 500 alpha

also grille w 580 alpha is questionable

[unique scaffold]

Or, and get this, we can just have strong tanks!

[burnt venture]

Just adapt bro

[main tulip]

Foch was absolute trash when it released as it had no autoloader and something like 50mm side armor.

When they initially gave it the autoloader with 640 alpha it was indeed overpowered, but that was before all the heavy HP buffs and medium/TD gun buffs that we have now. That Foch would be perfectly fine in today's meta

[remote sluice]

true, it also brings a unique playstyle to the foch. theres no tank in this game that has an autoloading 155mm like it, and giving it 500 alpha damage like it has rn only makes it a worse mino, yoh, and 268.

[unique scaffold]

Yes, you can’t justify a FV4005 with 1600 clip and tvp with 1200 and not be able to say Foch with 1200 wouldn’t fit, the only op thing I would see is he rolls being as high as 2400 for the clip

[main tulip]

If you are giving your rear to a Foch like that you kinda deserve it. Most of the paper tanks have spall liner now, so full HP clips like that will only happen if the Foch gets behind an American, British, or fellow French tank for an extended period of time.

[burnt venture]

640x2 Foch was after heavy tank HP buffs. The problem they had wasn't with the clip size, but with the HE alpha. 960x2 is ridiculous and even just with HE splash you can do 600-800 with two shots of HE, not to mention just one-clipping tanks like a Grille or god forbid something at tier 9 like a PTA.

I think right now though just with this 3.8 sec intraclip, the tank can have 560x2 no problem with improved alpha gold rounds and nerfed HE damage.

[hazy frost]

560 dmg autoloader Foch was more than decent. Also what dpm will Grille have after the dmg nerf and reload buff?

[unique scaffold]

No, proper alpha is the only answer, shouldn’t have to pay for alpha, this is fricking teir X, this is the culmination of a line, and who cares about doing 600-800 in HE splash for the clip, 20 secs reload and 4 sec intra, JGE100 is 15secs for 800ap, 183 is 19 secs for 930 ap, still balanced

[lost crane]

~3.6-3.7k

[gleaming apex]

puffersquaffer#0 has been warned.

ltima#0 has been warned.

murodulla_s#0 has been warned.

therealfructosefather#0 has been warned.

spetegules#0 has been warned.

[burnt venture]

Foch has mobility + armor and it's a clipper. If you give it too much alpha it's going to be very dumb if it has anything below a 5 second intraclip.

[gleaming apex]

82222#0 has been warned.

[main tulip]

No, it wasn't. Heavy HP buffs were in 6.9 (at least for the tier 10s, to my knowledge), and Foch alpha nerf happened in update 6.7.

[gleaming apex]

blingtand#0 has been warned.

[remote sluice]

id like the foch w 560-600 alpha and 5s intraclip. that would be interesting. HE alpha can be 770 or smth so it cant one clip a grille

[glad cove]

Bat chat in any case isn't close to tvp

[unique scaffold]

Why was I warned? What infraction did I do?

[hazy frost]

A nice thing would be to limit autoloaders to 2 maximum 3 per team.

[lilac ginkgo]

wait will the sheridan now have only 265m view range??? Isn't that lower than some meds?

[unique scaffold]

Seriously?

[quartz snow]

Who knows? WG might buff its intra from 2.7s to 2s or 2.3s

Autoloaders are by far the most delicate to balance as even a minor buff to their intraclip makes them broken

[glad cove]

The fact about bat chat is that it has less hp than a medium (although the difference between medium hp and light hp is oddly small) it doesn't have as much survivability

But most importantly lesser skilled players can yolo in the vehicle but only dealing 930 dmg in any amount of time is not enough to change a game early on

[hazy frost]

What do you guys think about Kran? Is it good the way it is or it needs some buff/nerf?

[remote sluice]

i love the kran as it is rn so any buff is welcome, no buffs is fine, but i will not tolerate any kran nerfs

[hazy frost]

I'd buff its max speed to 40 km/h and remove improved engine boost. Its under 45 tons but is slower than vk 72 which is more than 2 times its weight, increase its hp to 2400

[willow hawk]

WG: “We want this tank to be a brawler. And up close hull down.”
Buffs armor slightly
nerfs dispersion at 100m, nerfs intraclip, nerfs alpha, reduces to 2 round magazine, nerf penetration by 20mm, buff speed to 52 km/h

At this point, I would not be surprised if these changes happen

[quartz snow]

You could say the same for TVP then. It only does 1240. Losing 900 or 1200 is still devastating and it stops you from doing your role

For me, autoloaders discourage aggressive gameplay for the opponent, which in turn makes it harder for you to push them since theyre in a hard position. Youd want to play more carefully if theres an opposing autoloader

And it rewards players for mindlessly yoloing you and you cant do anything about them. Even more so if they play passive-aggressively

[willow hawk]

Did WG not learn from their update 5.5 mistake? No one plays lower tiers as much anymore. It’s simply not as fun. They butchered all the low tier tanks, and that’s why we keep seeing more newer players in the upper tiers.

Now they’re butchering tier 10. What’s going to happen now?
@burnt venture ?

[hazy frost]

Tier x matchmaking will be broken, people will complain wherever they can and Wargaming MAY undo some of those nerfs in a future update

[stone drum]

Honestly I was so scared about balance changes last night for france, I got physically sick.
I hope mercy will be shown by wg.

[eager cove]

fax. imagine 40% in t10, do 0 dmg then blame others.

[lost crane]

i don't understand why they don't post it

[willow hawk]

That’s a bit far, but yeah. A lot of players are passionate about the tanks they love to play. It’s your French tanks. It’s my American mediums. I just hope WG understands that the reason we are vocal about these changes is because we care. After all, we are the end user. Making changes that end users won’t enjoy is pointless.

[stuck acorn]

Just bring back old foch and nerf the HE then. There are conutless 155mm guns that don't have 960 alpha on HE. Give it 2x 640 but make HE something like 800. Problem solved

Old foch was at least somewhat unique, the current one is just a grbage platform fitted with a nerfed yoh doubleshot gun

[stone drum]

For me it goes beyond the game, it's no understatement to say I'm fanatical about French tanks, but that's largely impart due to my childhood.

Still though, I'm not blinded by passion, so that I can't see what's beneficial to the game.

[gloomy patio]

average french person

[lost crane]

Any informations about when wg will show balance of french tank ?
@gloomy patio yes, french person are better than average 🇫🇷🇫🇷🥖

[hazy frost]

Probably tonight or tomorrow

[hot fiber]

Still waiting :/

[teal crystal]

😂 what's up my dude, you should have seen mine in Rival fam channels

[unique scaffold]

Lol was it in the last few days?

[teal crystal]

I actually do make good suggestions but it's usually the f2p or people who don't like to have fun replying to my suggestions saying it's toxic, idk their profiles and idc because their defense is "it's just a game" as if we can throw balance out the window

[broken kernel]

is the sheridan a good tank to use

[wraith hornet]

If I wanted to start a fresh F2P account, which line should I grind down after these upcoming nerfs and buffs? The 263/Leo 1?

[teal crystal]

that's the thing, they trashed whole tech trees, the only decent tree I see grinding is the soviets (a few germans too), maybe another one will have good changes made, we have yet to see EU tanks get changes announced

[wraith hornet]

I saw the heavy nerfs to the IS4 and IS7 got some nerfs/buffs. The 263 with added armor seems like a no brainer now that it can actually tank shells. but the Leo dpm buff will push it over 3700 dpm with rammer included, making it in par with the 263. I’m not sure which line to pick but all the British lines got screwed over.

[willow hawk]

“Tried it internally.” On what basis? Take the “rebalanced” tank to a controlled test environment and test for functionality? That’s a very loose and poor standard. What about on a competitive basis?

And this… if you’re going to “perceive” tanks in such a way that “their gameplay roles can be changed significantly,” why are you using historically existent (physically, or in blueprints) tanks? Why don’t you make your own tanks for that purpose? Most tier 10s are Cold War tanks /blueprint Cold War tanks with an intended design and purpose, with specified parameters.
Choosing to rebalance these tanks based on the arbitrary decisions of game developers opens a wide open door to disrespect historical references. Now, an IS7 can be as thinly armored as possible, even though its original design was to have thick armor, block opponent projectiles. A Leopard, intended to be nimble with firepower can have the worse gun in the game, with all the armor in the world. Am I saying these have happened? No, but based on WG’s justification, all of these changes are warranted. Just look what they’ve done to the IS4, FV215b, Vickers, Grille, M48 Patton…

Like literally, if WG wanted to, just make collector copies of tech tree tier 10s with unique repurposed stats. WG can easily profit off of that, and preserve the current tier 10 tech lines.

[unkempt bloom]

That’s what m60 is basically. It’s m48 with a slightly different playstyle

[willow hawk]

Buddy, M48 Patton and M60s are two similar tanks, but with different play styles. Their armor profiles are different, their ranges of motion are different, their sizes are also slightly different.

M48 used to have more gun depression on sides and rear. It handles slower than the M60, but had a more spread out range of motion.
M60s can play more aggressively, but cannot play reverse as well because it had a hump back.

As of now both tanks suffer from the humpback.
M48 has a lower profile compared to M60.

What I’m talking about is, what they’ve done to the Sheridan. Exact copies, one collector and one tech tree. The collector can be changed to whatever the devs want.

[unkempt bloom]

If WG really cares about making each tank unique and interesting to play within its game, why are m48 and m60 so similar. Obviously because they’re trying to do one of two things- the first being make money off of a tank that has a similar playstyle and look to a tech tree tank, or the second which is be historically accurate while maintaining balance within the game. The is4 and is7 rebalance rule out the second. I personally would like to see m60 with stats that are more unique to itself. Possibly give it combat stabilization in exchange for 200 or 300 dpm- both making the tank more historically accurate and also differentiating it from the tech tree m48 Patton.

Also in response to this, yes I know they are different but you can use them almost interchangeably in battle scenarios. M48 also has slightly better soft stats like on move dispersion bloom. M48 also sits slightly higher with it’s center of gravity allowing you to use the “physics” of the game to rock back and forth on hills which will give you far more bounces than when playing m60.

[unique scaffold]

Reason why m60 is similar to m48 is because they are literally meant to be similar use some logic pls

In real life there were nearly identical aswell having the same chassis but different hulls but the m60 had a better turret so if anything they replicated what it is irl

[pale oyster]

Idk about you but if you want to play tanks that are close to real life, just go play War Thunder.

[willow hawk]

What I want is some extent of respect for historical references. I’m not quite sure if we are on the same page. Based on this post, I find little to disagree on.
In fact, I sorta like your ideas.

I believe that if WG wants to make these radical rebalances to tech tree tanks, they should just make an exact collector copy and alter the stats however they want. Leave the tech lines alone.

[unique scaffold]

Did i say the game is realistic? No i didnt i just mentioned what the 2 tanks are similar in and how they correlate with the actual real life version

[unkempt bloom]

That’s actually exactly my point. There needs to be at least some level of respect for the historical roles of the tank. The statistics don’t need to match, but at the very least the tank should be similar to how it was intended to be used. My point with the m48/m60 comparison was that wargaming has a tank that is meant to be a direct improvement of another. That would completely eliminate the use for m48 if historical statistics were the law. In order to maintain tank balance within the game and keep all tank’s relevant and not powercrept and useless the historical values of the tanks can’t be kept perfectly aligned with reality.

The problem I have with the is4/is7/obj260 rework is that all of them had their own niche that has been carved out for years. In the above order, their roles were: armor and gun but no speed, speed and armor but bad gun(for the most part. The times when is7 had a good gun led to it being slightly overpowered), and speed and a good gun but no armor.

[sharp dirge]

when is france and china coming out?

[unique scaffold]

France was meant to today china is tomorrow but im not sure if france is moved to tomorrow

[solid sequoia]

They’re both coming at the same time lol

[willow hawk]

100% agree.
Idk about u, but I dislike the M60’s toothpick gun and T95E5(?) clamshell turret. Give the M60 the “needlenose” T95E7 turret and M68E1 105mm gun.
This way, the M48 and M60 are more different from each other.
Ofc, stats honed. Sacrifice reload time slightly for better gun handling…etc.

[unkempt bloom]

Personally I think that the m60 turret is really what makes the tank “M60” as opposed to just some prototype because it was the main mark of the m48/m60 tanks. I personally think that the combat stabilization would be a fun addition to m60 because it would definitely differentiate the two tanks while also paying homage to one of the first tanks to ever have an on move stabilization system. Of course stat changes would be necessary, possibly a speed or gun nerf(maybe even armor but then again it would probably make the tank lose it’s role as a hulldown medium). It may be possible for WG to give the m60 the 152mm gun that some had(probably not though because that’d be cancer). In my opinion m60 should have better view range because it does have improved optics over m48. Possibly buff m48s penetration to compensate for losing comparable view range

[willow hawk]

This is the M60A3. Improved, harder hitting gun of the same caliber, better gun handling, different armor profile. And no, I don’t think we need a M60A2 Starship.

[unkempt bloom]

I see, tbh that would be a good change. Definitely would have to lost the superior DPM and speed over m48 though. Simply because it has more alpha and the armor would be better coming into the game

[keen dew]

m60 and m48 have different hull shapes

[mortal falcon]

See: M48A5, the variant that is in Blitz

[willow hawk]

If you look at the replay file, WG still labels it (in dereliction) M48A1. If you’ve played long enough, like some of us, you’d remember that the M48 used to have the 90mm gun, until they got rid of it.

[mortal falcon]

Yes, because it used to have the tumor cupola. It is an M48A5 now for all intents and purposes. Probably too much work to rename the files for literally zero benefits lol

[willow hawk]

My point is…they don’t care enough.

[fathom glacier]

Is4 had 122mm gun too (stock gun) and wg removed it

[willow hawk]

This is tank balance discussion. Not a place for seeking help on streams

[shy olive]

Hm... what happen to the rebalancing tanks? It has been a week from previous one

[small vale]

last week they announced it 1 day earlier so it may tomorrow

can't wait for another nerf on 30B🙂

[dapper zenith]

does the t55a still have to remain under the Blitz flag? can't it be placed under the appropriate nation,? so it can be used in missions

[humble depot]

Literally none of the Russian Tier X tanks are fake

[dapper zenith]

I think all of the "OBJ" vehicles are paper design only

[twin egret]

yet

[clear shuttle]

E-50 was designed, E-50M was not

215B is just overall fiction

[gleaming apex]

nameless32#0 has been warned.

[drowsy plaza]

This isn’t the history channel or the chat channel. Read rules, follow them or there will be consequences

[teal crystal]

history? did he say something forbidden?

[willow hawk]

Moderator decisions are final. #rules . Let’s get back to discussing tank balancing (or lack of such).
Crusader was kind enough to provide a public warning.

[teal crystal]

buff Lorraine Alpha for 280, everything else stays the same

ez balance

[stone drum]

just dropping 280 alpha on it, is like slapping a hello-kitty mini band-aid onto a burst artery. While yes it may be cool, it doesn't actually solve any problems and just looks ridiculous.

Lorraine should simply just recieve a proper 100mm gun.

[dry rivet]

I think he was being sarcastic or joking

[safe rapids]

I love how WG is like “we’re changing all t10 meds to have AP” and then not long after they revert a bunch back to APCR 🤦‍♂️

[teal crystal]

so you want the alpha to be 310?

@stone drum No no, Make it 310 × 4 shells, keep pen at 212, aimtime and everything stays the same, 2.5S intraclip

[stone drum]

Yes, 3×310 with 232mm of pen, and 3s intraclip.

[teal crystal]

no no, it's balanced, also how would it be an issue? it needs to expose itself for 7.5 Seconds to unload everything, keeping everything the same, just an alpha increase would make the tank balanced enough
alpha from 225 to 280 would be great
it would go from 900 burst to 1120, negligible but balanced when every other tank does like 760 or 880 in 2.5S

[dry rivet]

I don’t want to see another TVP but in tier 8. But ok.

[real bison]

except unlike the TVP, the L40t has to suffer with:

Almost 30s load + unload time (27s iirc, which tier for tier, is horrid)
7.5s to unload
after-shot dispersion
people don’t need to aim at it

meanwhile the TVP:
26s load+unload
4.5s unload
inconsequential after-shot dispersion (and the reason it’s so toxic)
people may need to aim more carefully due to the mantlet and the upper plate which can suddenly become autobounce

[willow hawk]

WG balance department doesn’t know what it’s doing. When the devs started the tank identity reassignment, they crossed the line. Radical changes of diversification sounds good for a business, but one that’s done just for the sake of it is shooting oneself in the foot.

I really want to know which genius thought of removing IS4 armor and buffing mobility and gun.

[remote sluice]

once u found the guy who nerfed the is4, can u pls find the guy who nerfed the 215b too? id like to have a word w him

[main tulip]

215b changes are fine direction-wise, even if it might be too weak. Is-4 just has no business being a heavium whatsoever

[willow hawk]

That too. Like…stripping the 215b of all armor just to add 2 km/h?

They crossed my line when they nerfed Patton’s pen. But that’s a personal thing.

And Vickers? Bro…105mm should be doing 350. Alpha has to correlate with caliber.

And nerfing grille? Also genius move.

Right now, it feels like WG let some new guys into the balance department. These new guys have no respect for the tanks, and they only see this as a game that they can toy with. They show no respect to any historical significance of the tanks receiving changes.

[solid sequoia]

I cant believe the amount of assumptions being made in this channel. WG gave out very few real numbers, and people are acting as if tanks are being nuked.

[clear shuttle]

is-4 we alr know about the new armour profile tho

[willow hawk]

@solid sequoia so these aren’t numbers, right? They must be alien hieroglyphics.
Vickers alpha nerfed from 350 to 300, those aren’t numbers too, right?
Patton’s pen nerfed by 7mm…also not numbers, huh?
fascinating
But not as much as you playing devils advocate.

[solid sequoia]

We don’t know the numbers for the mobility or gun buffs though. For all we know it could just become a tier 10 IS-8, a tank that doesn’t exactly struggle to do good damage.

@willow hawk The Vickers nerf is a nerf, but the M48’s turret is getting buffed. We don’t know how strong that will be. Also, “stripping 215b of all armor.” This is a massive assumption. For all you know it could just be -5mm everywhere.

Believe it or not, the M48 rebalance may make its turret reliable enough to sit still hulldown, allowing it to more reliably use its dpm. It may actually be a buff.

[willow hawk]

They messed up Patton’s turret armor when they added PBR to it. They should’ve buffed it without question. But nerfing the gun pen and alpha just for fractions of a second faster reload is a nerf. The Patton heavily relied on its gun to perform. Regardless of turret buff or not, the hatch is still easy to hit, as well as the sight slopes. It’s not a brain dead sit hull down and shoot. It’s a hill rocker, with gun dependence. Armor is secondary priority.

For the 215b, it’s already a massive tank that relies on hull down, as a rear mounted tank. Nerfing even by a true 5mm can be massive when you calculate relative armor thickness. From perpendicular angle, 5mm nerf sounds ok. But calculate that at any other angle.

[solid sequoia]

The M48 is meant to just sit on a ridge and farm. Giving it a stronger turret allows it to do that better.

The 215b relies on its gun, and more mobility allows it to use its gun better. Being rear turreted ruins a lot of hulldown spots for it. Also, -5mm everywhere wouldn’t change the effectiveness of the 215b’s armor due to how it is shaped.

[silk root]

I agree. People seem to be losing their minds over the 215b armor nerf, but as far as I know, no numbers on just how much the armor will be reduced have been released. It could be a quite minor reduction that doesn't affect much at all

[willow hawk]

You’re not reading what I said, and just repeating what you believe. That doesn’t help you😂.

5mm everywhere DOES change effectiveness of the 215b’s armor due to how it’s shaped. It’s literally math. Do you even know what relative armor thickness is? It means at an angle. When you nerf armor thickness true value, it affects relative thickness even more.

[solid sequoia]

What I meant was that -5mm everywhere would still allow the 215b to bounce on its turret, aka the effectiveness of its armor would not be reduced in terms of performance.

I will admit that I could have explained that a bit better

Here’s what -5mm would do to this part of the turret. As you can see, it’s still thick. It will still bounce. The effectiveness of the turret in blocking shells would not be reduced.

[remote sluice]

yea i think i know the direction that wg is taking the 215b to, but stripping off its armor just to give it an extra 2km/h top speed is just bs.

yea sure i get u wanna make the 215b a heavium by nerfing the already nonexistent armor, but at least remove the speed boost and give it a top speed of 50km/h or smth? or maybe even give it 10 degrees of gun depression on the side to give it some kind of playstyle and relevance in today’s meta.

now we have an armorless heavy tank that cannot do the heavy tank playstyle. duh.

edit: if they only nerf its armor by 5mm everywhere then i think its justified since everything else are getting pen nerfs

[willow hawk]

Did you see? 5mm reduction can mean 8mm applicable reduction. That’s a decent chunk removed. And no one shoots there. They aim for the slot between the turret roof and cupola. Keep proving my point, bud

[solid sequoia]

335-327. That’s still 327mm effective. That’s still able to bounce. And besides, it they aim for the slot between the turret roof and cupola, what does armor matter? That part is never going to be thick enough to bounce. If you’re going to complain about something, at least make it something that’s worth complaining about, and not something that doesn’t affect the tank in the first place in your opinion.

[remote sluice]

to be fair almost everything else are getting pen nerfs so if they only take away 5mm of armor from the 215b it wont matter too much i think

[willow hawk]

You’re trying to show the thickest part, which by no common sense would anyone try shooting close to a gun mantlet. They’ll aim for the cheeks, center mass, the hatch, somewhere other than gun area. And you’re assuming 5mm. How do u know it isn’t 10? 20? 50? How do you know they aren’t going to change the armor profile like they did to the T57?

[solid sequoia]

I’m actually showing one of the weaker parts of the turret. And I’m using 5mm as an example. I don’t know what the true number is. That’s why I’m not saying the armor is getting trashed. Because we dont know. I’m not making any brash assumptions that don’t actually belong in this channel because there’s nothing to actually discuss.

[willow hawk]

You want weak parts? You’d aim here. Nerfing it by who knows how much, means you have to wiggle more to mitigate increased pen risk.

You’re not going to expect the opponent to sit directly in front of u, right? You’re not that naive, right?

Yeah. I thought so.

You know you’ll end up having to face more than one opponent right? Naive.

[solid sequoia]

One part that doesn’t care about effective armor and the other that you’ve reduced the angle on. Well done.

You know you can turn the turret to face them right? You’re not that naive, right?

@hardy bronze HESH. That’s really it tbh

[hardy bronze]

Genuine question: What's the reason to pick a FV215b over another heavium/medium killer? It doesn't have the same mobility of something like an E6 or Obj 260 or 50b or arguably a Mk6, and yet its armor still can't really stand up to heavies all that well from the looks of it since nearly all heavies have 340 base HEAT pen

[remote sluice]

other than the funny hesh it has, theres rlly no reason to play it rn i think

[tulip otter]

you can just play t9 conq wich performs even better against t8 and t9 and if WG continiues to nerf 215b armour sooner or later it will be the same cardboard as the Conq

[hardy bronze]

And seeing how the Mk6 is getting ERA while keeping HESH and its gun handling...it just seems like it's a better 215b. I love both my E6 and Mk6 so I'd really like to have another tech tree heavium medium killer, but the 215b ain't worth the time imo

[shy olive]

Man grille gona have 4.5k dpm, thats busted if u ask me

[unique scaffold]

I think The BC 25T needs a buff

[remote sluice]

conq may be a cardboard tank, but its not rear turreted which somewhat makes it more flexible

also conq gets tier 8 which the 215b will never get

[tulip otter]

and because of the T8 encounter the Conq is way funnier to play with 187 he pen since you can Pen like anything frontally

[unique scaffold]

Just a small one like the
Inter clip becomes 2.5 and turret Traverse becomes slightly faster and increase The top speed by 2km

[foggy hornet]

Is the balance of the Chinese and French tanks released?

[teal crystal]

not yet, the people supposed to have posted it are sleeping

[glass osprey]

Nuh uh.

[foggy hornet]

bruh

The BC25t is probably going to nerf😭😭

[plain dew]

Surely the AMX 30B doesn’t get nerfed right

[remote sluice]

from what theyre doing to the other lights (getting their alpha nerfed to 300), i think the batchat will get the same treatment. however this should not be a big deal bcus it will still do 900dmg per clip so yea

[foggy hornet]

All the light tanks are dead
The next version will be world of mts

[remote sluice]

sheridan is still alive, w the aim time buffs it gets it will still do well despite the view range nerfs. shell speed should not be too much of a problem if u lead shots

[sweet skiff]

not really, the sheridan is still a solid vehicle and the t100lt, despite losing armor and pen, is still really nice (especially with the dpm buff)

[remote sluice]

vicks still has the hesh too even tho it doesnt as hard

[sweet skiff]

nah vick is dead imo, the dpm buff is just cruel. i honestly don’t mind the armor nerf tho, since it’s a light tank after all.

[remote sluice]

patiently waiting for (hopefully) good news abt the foch’s alpha damage

[hollow vapor]

t-62 and 140 need some love 😔

[umbral socket]

Can we all agree that the Grille 15 needs a buff? I mean why the hell did they nerfed it again itfp?

[ornate warren]

Same goes for its new disgustingly boring autoloader design

@remote sluice exactly mate

@harsh ravine I d rather have 600 with fast reload than have 680 with long reload for the sake of versatlity tbh, but having that option would be cool I guess

[remote sluice]

yea id rather a 5s intraclip w like 600 damage per shot or smth. thats how u make a tank w a unique gameplay style while being a relevant tank in this meta.

the single shot gun should get 640 alpha back. theres no reason not to.

[harsh ravine]

Would argue the single shot gun needs 680 alpha

[knotty surge]

maybe just to cause controversy 😳 , but in all reality I can see what they're trying to do with the grille:
3600 dpm base, mobility buff, decreased shell velocity, quicker per shot (thus punishing camping/camo) > basically a medium/frontline med side fighter (I don't mention heavies as a lot of them can just out trade you now)?

imo I don't care about the alpha changes but its dpm is not enough. STB-1, heck Pattons etc. they're all reaching almost 3600 now and what the grille gets 300mm while they can just insta pen (with the HP of a td)?

I suppose this is their only way to force players not to camp in the grille as increasing the alpha back up is just gonna make it into a peek-a-boo nightmare. If they left the alpha (or even lowered it), buffed it's hitpoints, made the dpm 3700+ (minimum), ideally a fully traversable turret I could see it working. It's an interesing playstyle and concept but the tank just doesn't have high enough of a skill cap to be effective yet -- give it adaptive concealment?

I would just like the devs to answer two questions:

1. Where does this tank belong? 2. Is it an attempt towards a new class (much like heaviums) of lightly armored frontline TDs or is there another motive?

[knotty surge]

If the idea is to punish heavy side sniping the adaptive concealment would be almost redundant (since you have to poke so often plus the already poor camo). This extends to heavy side frontlineing/peek-a-boo where you just flat out lose more effective damage (tds have less hitpoints).

On the flip side for mediums:
Adaptive would:
-enable better brawls with lights who can out spot you
-enable better poking knowing when they are unprepared
-your alpha is still high enough to make a semi fair trades
-dpm would make brawls semi-viable(er)

Note this is after my suggested buffs/changes

Imo adaptive concealment may be the most effective change that the grille is missing in my book cause even if you get your super dpm buff or even alpha back, the issue still remains of camo. A tank that requires constantly shooting just isn't gonna have camo cut it.

[remote sluice]

670 would be enuf tbh. make it the old 268

[fathom glacier]

If wg nerf foch 155 again then I’m done

[remote sluice]

if they dont buff the alpha of the autoloader im gonna be very sad

[pliant summit]

Dont know but it should be this week

[twin egret]

you forgot the turret ring, and the giant sloped forhead that shells richochet into the cupola slot half the time, and the view port above the left cheek

[mental thistle]

30b 100% will be buffed

[nimble zodiac]

Literally pretending it's the end of the world that Grille lost 20 damage

[kindred prairie]

Please don't nerf leopard's gun depression 😦

[clear shuttle]

i think they should reduce grille alpha to 500 just for the fun of it

[night geode]

ofc just like last year😀

[remote sluice]

welcome mr grille to the foch 155 gang 💀

[rapid basin]

Why not just nerf bad tanks some more fr fr

[remote sluice]

yah lets give a 155mm gun 400 alpha damage it would be very funny bcus its french

[honest knot]

yup
meaning it's coming
should take less than an hour to post it right ?

[dim hill]

is IS 4 worth it now?

[stuck acorn]

with USSR tanks i waited well over 30 minutes before they unprivated it, but maybe this time it will be quicker

[honest knot]

ngl, it's going to loose the armor that made it special.
i dont own the tank and i will not grind it now.

[knotty tiger]

Let's hope wg will not destroy some tanks that is underrated like the Chinese lines

[green agate]

You betcha mate, wg always will have a way of fixing destroying tanks that are underrated

[gleaming apex]

sahib#3784 was muted.

[wooden lynx]

Don't worry it gained 500 dpm 3500 >> 4k and more view range in exchange of 1 less degree of gun depression

[gleaming apex]

PricopeDenis#0550 was muted.

-=Tavcho=-#5624 has been warned.

[knotty tiger]

Tbf I bet that wz 121 getting a buff

[gleaming apex]

bapt259#0 has been warned.

garfish233244#0 has been warned.

masterbeast100p#0 was muted.

murodulla_s#0 has been warned.

mkdaqol#3232 was muted.

thephoenix2005#0 has been warned.

maarekstele7#0 was muted.

[clear shuttle]

if their gonna buff it it’d be by dpm/armour/speed
to me its a “hard”-ish tank to balance properly

[gleaming apex]

epicdoge2137#0 has been warned.

[nimble zodiac]

I suspect they're gonna nerf the aiming time.
They gotta take away something important to the tank for a rebalance

I'd guess in order to give it more speed and maybe HP

[graceful ravine]

I am mostly scared as to what they will do to the batchat, that thing is brilliant as it is

[honest knot]

the batchat is great yeah
a buff would make it the best light so far so prob a nerf ...

[quartz snow]

+2s aiming time for +2 kmh top speed. Rebalanced

[tidal turtle]

I hope they nerf the armor like they did with the vickers+t100, but buff the mobility/gun a bit to compensate

[knotty tiger]

I'll say for facts they gonna nerf the wz 113

[drowsy plaza]

Wait and see for when coming soon goes live again. Speculation just makes people get more wound up.

[foggy lantern]

strengthen wz1321 pls☺️

[shy wren]

30B getting buffed!?

[night geode]

am i dreaming or 30B is actually getting a DPM buff? -_-

[pale oyster]

50b changes were nice and didn’t destroy the tank :) so thank you.

[fathom glacier]

Yes nothing change for foch 155. what a thing.

[wind flower]

atleast its not a fv215b now.

[delicate folio]

These are cosmetic changes to equalize both weapons stats

[olive raven]

Tvp going to have 2sec reload again or like 1.7 ?

[delicate folio]

we will tell next week

there will be changes for it defenitely ✂️

[mystic gorge]

Do we know how much the WZ-111 5A’s dispersion is getting nerfed by?

[limpid fulcrum]

Love the changes to the BC 25 Ts 100mm

Hate the changes to the BC 25 Ts 105mm

[amber glacier]

Atleast they buffed the wz113 td, which is now made it a frontline td

[hushed crown]

30B buff.

[rough sandal]

Another series of changes that are not correlated with some basic gameplay of the tanks?

[uneven oriole]

why do they even reduced 50b front plate when it's turret literally paper ☠️

[mild igloo]

Overall i think a loit of the change votes are positive for any buff and negative for nerfs
nobody likes to see tanks nerfed unless its a very OP tank
there a few exceptions where the downwotes for nerfs are justified
the biggest is 215b witch was already a underpowered heavy and now even less armoured and not as deadly as 50b to make up the lack of armour

[nimble zodiac]

Will AMX M4 mle. 54’s armor nerf affect the turret? I assume it only means the hull

[delicate folio]

There is no basic tank gameplay, roughly speaking. Our main goal is to give the most diverse gameplay on different tanks, that's all

[fallow tinsel]

where are the changes?

[wind flower]

#coming-soon

[humble pike]

Man I wish wotb did not nerf grille that tank legit needs buff not nerf

[waxen osprey]

Yeah so may I ask what is the point of playing the M4 MLE over the E5 next update?

[delicate folio]

We use different parameters when balancing

[austere citrus]

id argue the WZ 113 GFT was already super strong, now they are buffing it even more? cant complain tbh, great tank that will be super op now

why did they have to nerf the wz 113 and 111 5a?? like bruh

probably to make obj 777 II better with no competitor

batchat is just bad now (useless tank)

chinese light tank (thankfully i just bought) is now gonna be super op

WZ-121 is gonna be mega op medium (new heavium)

i wanted the 111 5a to haev a stronger upper plate, maybe to like 160mm lmao

now they are reducing it to nothing

[charred comet]

Turret cheeks are included

[vague nimbus]

113's gun stab and dispersion is already bad, why did yall nerf it even more? I am severely concerned about the damage nerf too. Meanwhile the 5A is getting buffs. Please reconsider the planned changes to the tank please specifically the 113😭

[limpid fulcrum]

Tier 9 ain’t getting the same treatment though 😭

@humble pike yeah, it’s getting dangerously close to the 183 now, which is very worrying

[thorny quartz]

why Amx 50 B more weaker front armour when already all can penetrate it ???

[hazy frost]

I start to think wg don't like heavies with high dpm. I wouldn't be surprised if they nerf Strv-k as well

[delicate folio]

So why are you disliking Bat? It's definitely getting more interesting

[uneven oriole]

Wg tryna buff em tanks only to ended up being nerf in a couple of updates, like bruh
What's the point of giving those tanks a good stats and just to make them trash in few updates -_-

And yes so clueless when the hull is so weak

[delicate folio]

WZ-113G FT armour

[amber glacier]

Wz 121 is a threat to the mt side now, but remember it main downside is you have to stand still to aim otherwise the accuracy will be nuts

[bronze nest]

please tell me if it will only increase or remain the same (without saying by how much)

[nimble zodiac]

Stronger turret and perhaps better mobility. That’s what 54 will have over E5

It’ll get around 2700 DPM

@waxen osprey Correct. I forgot to account for E5’s changes

[vale oar]

30b getting a dpm buff

[hardy saddle]

A little armour on object 260

[velvet beacon]

50B 0.5 less intra clip. My god.

[normal fulcrum]

Yes, WZ-113g ft is good armor

[humble pike]

Is there any place where I can see all the tanks sketch including it's ammo rack and engine?

[olive raven]

2.2 💀

[delicate folio]

The tank has the best mobility, a very good gun and a lot of hp (hp compared to meediums and tank destroyers). Of course, it can't be good in all aspects, then it will be too unbalanced

[waxen osprey]

E5 is also getting a DPM buff, its getting close to that DPM too. Stronger turret sure, but not by much. I would argue only the alpha would be better on the 54

[austere citrus]

they buffed obj 777 II but nerfed wz 113, im assumign they want to sell the collector

111 5a isnt getting a buff, its a nerf, tank already lacks armor and an upper plate, i would argue at least give it 1 more degree of gun depression lol

@amber glacier true but 420 alpha with tungsten is gonna be insane (strong armor too), 120mm upper plate, 240mm turret, pretty good

121B might be really good now

ngl, im fine with any changes since i have every tank

WZ 113 GFT is gonna become broken though, i alreayd play it and the armor is super strong and good mobility and good pen and dpm

its literally gonna become obj 268 but with more armor llol

[native shoal]

amx m4 54 armor nerf applies to the upper, lower or the entire front of the hull??

[gloomy patio]

can we see the 5a armour change values 🙂

[scenic olive]

Amx50b op? I thought they would nerf it to oblivion

[limpid fulcrum]

The 105mm will be completely atrocious (My leopard will reload faster than inter-clip and still do more damage per shot, on top of the fact that it’s getting buffed)

I love the changes to the 100mm, keep those please!

[delicate folio]

His toxicity and average damage should be reduced, but he will gain some features

[thorny quartz]

Tolyan this going to nowhere like this , all this stupid changes , then make all tier 10 tanks to level tier 2 and WG will be happy not the players !!!

[honest knot]

so the 30B becomes a french Leo1 ? less armor and more dpm...
i mean why not, but i feel like that bit of armor made the tank at least a bit different than other mediums.

It will really depend on how much armor is taken out and how it compares to the Leo1's

[twin egret]

It's still going to have armor

[void dirge]

These chats are to interesting.
Anyways they are digging up Graves for the the tanks that had been nerfed big time for 10.3

[main grotto]

Time to grind chinese td line, was too lazy before

[odd night]

bat is great, superv ideas. i wanna play the 4 shot gun

[harsh ravine]

Wow, they nerfed the regular gun of the Foch, smh

[mild igloo]

i have a few unclear things about the Japanese tank premium shell
will the prammo do the same or less pen then standard?
wont the stb-1 reaload buff give it to much dpm? perhaps make the reload buff keep the same dpm but lower alpha for base shells

[eager cove]

suggetion for incoming european lines balance:
add vz 55 2shells/mag gun ,3s delay. 460alpha.

dont nerf 60tp, if it received buff, yes buff the ammo box hp so it wont be another is 7.

delete tvp.

[mystic gorge]

@delicate folio is it possible u can tell me the 5A’s new dispersion?

[hazy frost]

You shoudn't reduce wz 113 dmg, now it'll have that boring 400 dmg with many 300 lowrolls

[delicate folio]

You will test during the update and see that each tank is good in its own way

• we also post it to see your opinion about the changes

[bronze nest]

Thanks you

[nocturne schooner]

Can you tell me if the adaptive concealment on 121b is the same as concealment on movement for lt????

[forest basin]

WG wants a new heavium meta

[olive raven]

About the 215b and vickers light changes is it really fixed ?

[charred comet]

What's the point of giving those tanks a good stats and just to make them trash in few updates -_-
The point is to make gameplay changes. The game must flow, it should never end up being fixed and static forever

Look, there are always some weaker tanks and some stronger tanks. It's impossible to make every one of them similar in game performance. So, instead of having a permanent list of great and mediocre vehicles, we want to rotate them ¯_(ツ)_/¯ Every tank deserves some real power—but for a limited time ofc.

Sure enough, we can't only buff tanks to achieve that. It would create an endless arms race

[vague nimbus]

Might as well abuse the tanks that are getting nerfed right now until next patch 💀

[tidal turtle]

Has anyone else noticed that there's been a lot of DPM buffs in the upcoming rebalancing? Like, I'm pretty sure there's a lot more DPM buffs than nerfs overall, especially for heavies. 1B, E5, E6, Maus, VK72, IS4+7, 260, Super Conk, and now the 5A and the M40...
It's not a huge change, but things are going to be a bit faster-paced now (minus yoloing autoloaders to some extent).

[amber glacier]

I argee with the wz 113 GFT buff, before it already like a nightmare for the mt,lt, now it might be the same for low pen hts like the is7

[austere citrus]

is this the updated armor because it looks like nothing changed?

@main grotto its honestly the best TD line in the game (and thats currently), its super good tank
i have every TD and u can just stop with it

@eager cove agree with 2 shell mag gun, boring and kinda useless tank rn

@crimson dagger disagree, if you have every tank in the game, you just use the most OP one

@charred comet 100% agree, i like it when wargaming changes the meta around by making some tanks stronger than others and then reversing that next update. I get super bored when its the same gameplay over and over and changing the meta allows me to play more tanks. There should be no such thing as "balance" since then there will be no changes. The goal of the game should force you to try new tanks that USED to be bad or something of the sort

[uneven oriole]

well we need a slight buff on 60tp 6-7 lines those tanks need a better speed.

[delicate folio]

we will show all exact numbers in september

[thorny quartz]

What is strong tank for you now in tier 10 when you make all have some huge weak spots, tell me ???

[limpid fulcrum]

Spotted for 7 seconds instead of 10 seconds I think

[latent ermine]

at least amx mle 54 will get 2785dpm with food+gun rammer

[charred comet]

OP enjoyer detected
Strong ≠ OP. Every vehicle should have the ways to outplay it (yep, using its weak spots)

[eager cove]

like fr, why we should play vz while having IS 7???? , a mechanic has been made for players that cant aim (basically skill issues).

VZ looks beauty but game play:

[wooden lynx]

I like the BC changes as a BC player

[formal forge]

I was expecting the Foch 155 was becoming the Foch 130 or somethung like that, since it only got bonked lately, seems im wrong luckly . Why the single shot got nerfed tho

[mild igloo]

going off the idea of buffing and nerfing to bring different tanks in and out of balance
215b never was a meta tank and nerf only reduces player count for the tank

[crimson dagger]

I honestly might write an official complaint, I’m seriously sick of this. And I have been for 6 years, seriously sick of it.

Also @austere citrus what nonsense are you on about?

[honest knot]

@lunar sphinx look at the changes for your tank 👆

[charred comet]

is this the updated armor because it looks like nothing changed?
There are pairs of numbers (armor thickness in mm), left for the current value and right for the new one

[odd night]

this is just an appreciative comment for the great changes you made on chinese tanks which I believe are super flavorful, especially the aim time reductions. Chinese tanks had that reputation of being super quick aimers and snappy and now its goona be real for both heavies like it has always been for 121. Nice job

[hazy frost]

FV-215b and IS-4 will be rare from now on

[safe tundra]

Remind me whats adaptive battle concelment mechanic?

[scenic olive]

Why is the 50b becoming broken wasn’t it already good💀

[austere citrus]

give vz 55 a 2 mag autoloader/autoreloader, the tank is just so average/boring, nothing special about it.

maybe reduce AP 470 -> 460 with dual mag

you could basically make it like a tier 10 obj 752 with its dual mag

@crimson dagger i dont like it when there is true balance because then each tank the same.

i mean at least wargaming is trying to diversify the medium line.

before each medium had 1800 HP, 350 alpha, same reload, and slightly different variations of gun depression

what world of tanks blitz needs is DIVERSITY. a lot of tanks feel like duplicates currently

also i still recommend giving leopard 1 an optional 120mm gun (due to 1a6 prototype) with increased alpha to 400/420 with increased pen but decreased dpm/gun depression

[bronze nest]

@delicate folio one more question. Do you plan to do the same with 8 tiers (e.g. in one or two years)? That is, also a big rebalance. Thank you in advance for your answer

[harsh ravine]

What are you guys trying to achieve with the Foch?

In its current state, its a worse amalgation of the Obj 268 and the Yoh. Nerfing the single shot is ridiculous and the autoloader in its current state will still remain inferior to that of the Yoh

[native shoal]

How will the amx mle 54 armor change?

[vague nimbus]

once u is spotted, you got 10 seconds before you be unspotted in the enemy's POV, with the adaptive conealment, you get 7 seconds less, maning, you'll be unspotted faster

[charred comet]

@delicate folio 's explanation is way better

[jagged crown]

RIP WZ-113 DPM..

[uneven oriole]

British and France tank's are becoming masochist

Plus why wg removed bp tanks!
They've should be making it more realistic than this goofy tier 8 cammo

Like we don't even suggest to make the bp become useless, the tank was only making it good

[late swan]

IM GETTING BUFFED

[thorny quartz]

you can only outplay players how i see , cuz WG doing all on his way no matter what but you not can outplay our wallet only if we agree !!!

[delicate folio]

there will not be massive tier 8 changes, point changes are possible
we are still in the planning stage

[void dirge]

@jagged crown it's becoming like the e5.

[crimson dagger]

You really don’t know what true balance is then. Would you like me to explain it to you in dms?

The things that come out of people’s mouths in this community, no wonder it’s so bad. Doesn’t even seem like there is a basic grasp of thought process anymore.

[wind flower]

Pls keep your questions and comments civil. thanks

[formal forge]

Kinda same case with sq, they sold it a few times and just nerfed the great he/hesh to a standard td, plus nerfing the penetration for the other two for no reason. Yeah it is a collectable and it is subject to change but a full ~55% decrease of the hesh pen? Thats crazy, might peforming great on the battlefield but it is in low numbers, so why they gave that as an excuse for not doing anything to the Smasher? (Although idc bout tier 7 anymore)

[delicate folio]

These are cosmetic changes to equalize both weapons stats

[void mulch]

I think this change does not create a clear advantage of AMX 30B over Leopard 1. If differentiation is desired, armor and hit point should not be weakened.

[zealous brook]

Im confused im not good at english so i would like to know is the full magazine on 50 b getting better reload or will it have 1,7 inter clip or something like that

[real bison]

except depending on how the change is, the Leo 1 is the DPM specialist, the 30B trades away some DPM and mobility for better armour

[verbal igloo]

I honestly dont understand the wz 121 changes. Why does everything get tungsten shells. just buff the tank

[austere citrus]

biggest tip for you, diversify tanks more (or continue so if you are already trying to do so already). and please try to not arbitrarily give random pen values to tanks with essentially the same gun such as wz 121 and wz 113 (currently), they essentially have the same gun yet the medium has terrible pen. you could match the pen with the 113 but reduce DPM for example. (also maybe add more customizability in terms of equipment for a tank? such as a medium have the choice between a 120mm or a 105mm or 100mm)

@crimson dagger disagree. you cant just make every tank the same. some tanks should be stronger in different scenarios. for example, leo 1 can be super strong yet it can also be terrible. it really depends on the context of a given match.

[hazy frost]

Something like that

[limpid fulcrum]

The Leo is getting a reload speed buff aswell 💀

[odd night]

More diversity is key but they're on a really good way now. If they release a few new special mechanics (such as rocket boosters for chinese heavies, super fuel for upcoming polish meds, etc) maybe in next roster balance they'll be able to give them to a few other tanks. I also agree about vz 55, it needs something like that, wont be op if the interclip is 4.5 and the damage 450-460. Also strvK and kran feel good as they are and diverse enough because of the engine boost, please let it to them since you didnt give it to anyone else in this update.

[safe tundra]

Ah that’s right, it’s the mechanic on the Chinese lights

[twin egret]

Current biggest losers for 10.3:
FV215b - what, why, the changes make little to no sense in any logical fashion
Foch - 1171165... stop spinning the wheel and make both guns viable rather than make the double shot better in most cases
FV4202 - Again, why? Are you intentionally trying to make HESH, the speciality of the tank, not a thing? The idea of adding a hesh gun to the Comet and Centurion I were great, but the stats for their heath guns are so atrocious compared to their regular guns. The FV4202 does not deserve the same treatment.
Vickers Light - Alpha Nerf is stupid
S. Conq - HESH and APCR pen nerf is stupid, unless the S. Conq is getting AP as a premium round if that wasn't a typo
IS-4 - the whole sides of armour of the tank should have been the thing that should have been nerfed rather than the front. Heat nerf is understandable.

The losers that players cry about but are for the better or are actually winners:
T57 Heavy changes - tank was just busted
Grille 15 changes - made for the better
T110E5 - seriously guys? Stop crying over it? The change is beneficial
Sheridan - screw that tank. Deserved.

[main grotto]

what's the point of adaptive concealment on the 121b?

[uneven oriole]

don't worry fv183 Getting a tungsten with 1.2k alpha dmg in update 10.69

They've should made 50b a medium bcuz of its armour, what's the point of calling it a heavy when you can pen it easily 😂

[remote sluice]

@delicate folio isnt it better to give the foch autoloader more alpha in exchange for intraclip and interclip nerf?

580 alpha for 5s intraclip, interclip can be 19s or smth. that will give the foch 2.9k dpm which is low enough to balance it out in the current meta, while giving it a unique playstyle like yall at WG want

[rustic locust]

Wz121:nuclear bomb of mt side.Stb-1:become type 74.E50M:dump truck

[bronze nest]

kk, Thank you again

[formal forge]

It’s wg choice of just rebalancing every tanks lately. 1) Nerf the alpha 2) give it some stupid consumable/equipment/battle mechanic and call it a day, instead really doing something about it. That’s why I dont support any changes that includes one of those, even though it is an straight out buff. Well they made a overhaul to the others, why aswell not doing for the leftovers? Cuz nahhhhh

[mystic gorge]

Man you’re so wise 😂

In the words of inciter: strong ≠ OP

[small crane]

tolyan will you post new change for the tank who have massive dislike after European region ?

[delicate folio]

This idea may be considered in the future. If we have not given something to the tank now, this does not mean that it will be the same in the future. So feel free to post your ideas

[void mulch]

The difference in DPM between the two is quite large. Moreover, the Kpz 50t is much better as a tank with more armor instead of a little less DPM and mobility than the Leopard 1. In other words, there is no reason to use the AMX 30B.

[austere citrus]

honestly another suggestion. i think we need map overhauls. maps heavily favor heavy tanks/front line tank destroyers/well armored mediums currently

in world of tanks on pc lights/mediums have more versatility since maps are bigger and its easier to play with it given more space. but in close combat heavies will prevail especially when they have about 25-50% more HP than mediums.

probably wont happen but maybe make the maps bigger? i mean its not 2014 anymore

there is simply too much "stuff" in the way in new maps.

good for hull down, but no "open fields" for lights/meds to rule.

some of the maps are really good (mines is a classic), but others are really mediocre or boring. every tank as come down to hull down at this point. heavy tanks with gun depression is currently meta (kran, type 71, 60tp, etc)

[limpid fulcrum]

If those grille changes are ‘for the better’ they may aswell remove it along with the 183 from the game, they’re just disgraces to their respective nations

[odd night]

i dont understand why yall are angry about the batchat its litterally getting super flavorful and buffed thats actually great for us, like both guns seem interesting theres an actual choice. It seems obvious to me that ppl just aren't reading it properly

[delicate folio]

Your opinion is important to us, so we communicate here and add reactions. But we will also evaluate the results of an open test, after which some changes are possible

[harsh ravine]

What do you mean equalize both weapon stats?

In its current state, the Foch with the regular gun is just a worse Obj 268.
The Foch with the autoloader is just a worse, inflexible Yoh.

Why force the players to use autoloader on the Foch when in it’s current state, the Foch’s autoloader is still gonna be bad in terms of gun handling and damage potential.

I don’t understand why does the regular gun have to be worse than the autoloader. Let the players have a choice instead of forcing them to use the autoloader

[real bison]

the Kpz 50t lacks acceleration, thing drives like an old Golf, whereas the Leo 1 and 30B are an R8 and an Alpine A110 respectively

[eager cove]

tolyan ,honestly:

add vz 55 2shells/mag gun, make 3.5s or 4s delay , around 21s reloading ,450-460 alpha
dont nerf 60tp, buff its ammo box hp so it wont be like IS 7.
#DELETE.TVP cuz TVP is unfair and broken.

[remote sluice]

i would love to have the foch autoloader to have stats like this

580 alpha for 5s intraclip, interclip can be 19s or smth. that will give the foch 2.9k dpm which is low enough to balance it out in the current meta, while giving it a unique playstyle like yall at WG want

[delicate folio]

We don't force you to play. It's just that both guns will be an alternative to each other and that's it. The player himself will determine which one he wants to play more

[twin egret]

I recommend taking a hear with your competitive teams on their opinions. T110E5 is massively disliked, but the changes are pretty beneficial for the tank itself. The Badger is heavily liked, but those changes will only make the tank become more broken and unfair than it already is

[rustic locust]

Most mt improved what they good at and weaken the worth part of them,idk why.And most hts become like the mts except German’s

[mystic gorge]

I’m gonna be honest, I don’t think 5A needed an armor nerf when the tank already doesn’t have hull armor to speak of.

[autumn zodiac]

In the players defense there is no reason to use the Autoloading gun. It is overall worse in every regard and other tanks perform the duty better.

And just a reminder to everyone Toylan and the staff here do not make these changes they are simply the messengers in this case.

[delicate folio]

We take into account the opinion of all players

[formal forge]

Would love to see someday they doing it. Liked the 560 and 7,1 interclip. 500 is just too ‘unreliable’ since I often do ~ 800 clip potential and just left to die during the clip reload

[rough sandal]

We all noticed that there isn't any basic gameplay behind all those changes, 95% of those "unbalancing" changes are disliked by the whole community because they don't have any prior test or the one who is testing them doesn't know how to do it, but let's suppose WG is doing it to promote "diversity" in the game(that is false because it's promoting always the boring hull down premium heavy tank) why killing grille, why nerf fv215b, why the E100 didn't had changes while for example stb1 got premium ammo that has same dmg as normal plus the dpm, this is not promoting different gameplay, this is changing meta and it will Always happens(it's the only tier that got sooo many rebalancing changes) and promoting gambling to get the most competitive premium.

[austere citrus]

we should get more mediums with "big guns" because it adds to the diversity of the game. only heavy tanks/tank destroyers currently have big guns

im saying there should be a medium with 480 alpha and good pen but with poor dpm, gun depression, and armor

honestly give bat chat 6 round autoloader lmao. i know it sounds crazy but its really not. leo 1 dpm will obliterate it so might as well let it peak and hit hard. becaues when a TD/183 hits it, it gets incinerated

@mystic gorge agreed, i thought 111 5a shouldve gotten an upper plate buff, i can understand slight turret nerf but upper plate ???

[limpid fulcrum]

Bro the Batchats 105mm is prob the worst gun at tier X
Have you looked at the gun? The 105mm may be the worst gun at tier X, it has a longer inter clip than a lot of mediums reload times, the leopard being one of them(the leopard, mind you, is getting a reload speed buff this patch and has more damage per shot then the batchat) the 100mm is very nice, but the 105mm? 6second+ inter clip for 350 alpha? that’s about tier 8 quality gun

[wide badge]

I can't wait for the tvp to get nerf down to the ground

[chilly crane]

Why nerf foch again... It was already nerfed before, pointless change

[thorny quartz]

Poor lovely @delicate folio how you have nerve for all this , respect for it ?

[harsh ravine]

Then why decrease the accuracy of the regular gun?

It’s ridiculous, especially in the poor state the Foch is currently in.

@remote sluice The Foch is currently a turretless, garbage version of the Yoh.

[delicate folio]

I don't know either, yesterday I was diagnosed with gastritis. probably from stress 😂

[main grotto]

also lol @ wz-121 getting tungsten, gonna be fun

[real bison]

I’m not sure you read the change correctly

the time between shells isn’t changing for the 105mm gun, it’ll still be 2.8s

[delicate folio]

We will take into account the results of the open test, as well as communication here, as I said above 🙂

[remote sluice]

i hope yall take my Foch 155 stats proposal into testing a bit bcus i rlly want it to have a more unique playstyle. right now it feels like a turretless yoh

pasting it here for reference:

580 alpha for 5s intraclip, interclip can be 19s or smth. that will give the foch 2.9k dpm which is low enough to balance it out in the current meta, while giving it a unique playstyle like yall at WG want

[waxen osprey]

Considering th ebuffs its receiving, its justified. I think they are trying to make it a heavium after all

[willow hawk]

Thank you for making this clear.

[autumn zodiac]

@remote sluice you literally just posted it, no reason to post it again

[pale oyster]

It was okay bht t57 was just better

[odd night]

yes but they want it to be real paper which makes sense given that the thing already has a good gun and its about to become the best heavy cyclic reload gun at t10 even with 440, superb dpm and aimtime; if the thing is quick enough and they don't nerf the dispersion too much (that one is crucial) im all for the armor nerf. @limpid fulcrum after checking yeah im sorry for saying theres a choice. Its still gonna be 105. But, the 5mm pen nerf and dpm nerf are not enough to not make this good news for the tank. More damage, poke less, 1050 in 5,6 s. But the damage on the 100 should have been brought to 285 or 290 not 270 which makes its 1080 total burst absolutely unworthy indeed.

[elder minnow]

Why did WG make the AMX mle. 54 worse? Frontal thickness is the only good thing of this tank 😮‍💨🥺

[jagged crown]

500 alpha for a 155mm gun cmon.. why Foch nerfed again or maybe buff the single shot dmg

[fiery pewter]

105mm guns dpm went down to 2844 from 2979 so yeah I would count bc rebalance as a nerf

[native shoal]

Someone can show us new amx armor profile?

[rough sandal]

For what, if wargaming doesn't know how to balance the game is not our fault, @twin egret if we have this boring meta is thanks to the competitive teams lol, let's hope that the testers will notice that lots of those balance changes are impractical

[small crane]

Bro this aint WoT PC stop asking for 2 shell Vz 💀💀😭

[mystic gorge]

It has a good gun but they’re nerfing one of the defining features of the tank which was its dispersion. And the tank isn’t getting a penetration buff to its gold rounds so ur basically losing the one thing that made it work against tanks with weakpoints. Losing armor means u can’t take the same positions u used to.

Ultimately the 5A changes rely on:

1. How much they nerf the dispersion by
2. How much mobility they give it

[austere citrus]

obj 777 II is the new and improved wz 113

[uneven turtle]

Welp time to grind for bc 25 t now

350 clip looking funny op there on bc

[scenic olive]

Traverse speed was the only thing holding the 50b back from being a med so depending on how much they buff it it will basically be a med with a 1520 clip😂

[limpid fulcrum]

The Tier 9 is looking better now, low-key

@real bison oh.. then these changes are a straight upgrade

[still verge]

Amx Mle 54 has been nerfed on the armor????????????????!

[autumn zodiac]

It's getting 285m Base view range + it already has good camo, the alpha buff on the 105 is a buff overall

[chilly crane]

Fr, it's like grille they chose a tank and they nerf it every update

[glass wharf]

💀again WG destroying my favorite tanks. Now it's the mle.. BRUH

[rocky briar]

Mle had a balanced armor profile too because of its large size, guess they just spun the wheel of "What should we nerf?"

[manic fossil]

30b armor weakening is about the gun mantlet? It doesn't really have armor anywhere else

[pale oyster]

A med with a horrible gun handling and huge barn like profile with HE sides. Can’t forget that. That’s called balance. Have you played the 50b? It’s essentially a fat med and always has been.

[gleaming apex]

Hoàng Nam#2174 has been warned.

[jagged crown]

Whats the point to playing Vz ? Its just an IS-7 with 10 more dmg per shot and a combat stabilisation mechanic so yes to make it more " fun and special " it need a 2 shots gun

[honest knot]

yup. it's getting closer and closer to a Leo1

[twin egret]

While I can see this is in good faith for being considerate about the player base's opinion, it is important to know that the game features players from all scopes of skill level, knowledge, and familiarity. While there may be a general opinion on something, at times it might not be the objectively, consciously, best one. For example, a large group of players want a change for the Maus to go 50km. Is that right? The general audience wants it. Now let's see the responses of a much smaller group of players, but who have played the maus, or are knowledgeable about the tank, or neither, yet knowledgeable about other things. They collectively say no, but their voice is quieter than the "general audience." Is the maus change a good one? Afterall, the "audience" is asking for it. We hope that we can agree that it is a straight no for an answer. Now let's flip the situation, this time it is the developer team that are thinking about implementing this change. The results are pretty much the same as the previous example.

[bronze nest]

@delicate folio In general, I think it would be useful to rebalance tanks that have not been touched for a long time such as the y5, t34, jp2, ferdinand (this tank is practically invisible in the battles), 59 patton, is5, t54 prot, fcm etc etc.

[mental haven]

if mle's mobility is brought to an extremely good level, it could be the new STRV K. but unfortunately we don't know how much it has been improved.

[odd night]

Im glad that they took off the AP gold ammo from 54 to make it an exclusively japanese thing. They really brainstormed nicely about specificities, not only for every tank, but between every nation, and that it heartwarming. Same thing for most chinese tanks becoming quicker at aiming. My last little hope is that they let the engine boost for both strvk and kran 🥹

[main grotto]

wish it got closer to stb-1 :/

[chilly crane]

But that is adding up once again an autoloader in the game, and there is already plenty of autoloader in the game

[gleaming apex]

layerofblubber#0 has been warned.

[pine jetty]

Goofy mle change

[uneven turtle]

Wz 132 1 alpha changed to 350 right?

Ok thx I’m gonna go for it over bc now @clear shuttle

[ripe sierra]

I think I see the pattern that WG is nerfing almost every HTs armor but buff the speed instead. Changing the meta i see

[clear shuttle]

360

[rocky briar]

At the end of the day, at least wargaming finally buffed the DPM of the 30B.

||ignoring the fact they also buffed the Leopard 1s DPM so the 30B basically stayed the same||

[tulip otter]

they should buff the disperson on the Wz light

[glass wharf]

Now the mle has worse alpha, the gun accuracy still mediocre... And since the prem ammo is not AP, heat with the same penetration will we far worse. And worse frontal armor? The tank is huge! The upper plate is already weak enough.

[austere citrus]

its probs gonna be strongest light in the game tbh

[scenic olive]

have you played the 50b? It can annihilate med side, and it also has 2400 hp to make up for its size. U literally have to put out 2 clips and ur at 3k damage, and the 50b has good aim time to make up for the gun handling which will also be BUFFED next update.

[twin egret]

The AP to HEAT change for the mle was just an utter spit near the shoes thing. The rest of the changes were fine

[jagged crown]

At least buff alpha to 490 it will be a way better than now

[pale oyster]

I have 2000 games in 50b. WITH 2.9k average. It does not have good aim time idk what you on about.

[delicate folio]

This is actually a very complex question:

1. This includes statistics and other objective data.
2. Love and dislike of the community.
3. Level of players and understanding of the game.
4. Own PERSONAL preferences.
5. The presence or absence of experience in other games.
6. Other factors can also influence the perception of balance.

Therefore, yes, probably, there is no thing in the world that everyone would unconditionally like. It's just a reflection on the fact that there will always be someone happy and someone dissatisfied

[mental haven]

@delicate folio Are these changes final? Could they be different in 10.3?

[uneven oriole]

what's the point of nerfing grille, they're making such an useless excuses to nerf it

It needs a bonk gun not a light tank gun 😭
Plus it's paper afterall also can get spot easily

[mystic cedar]

does china and france going to be nerf or buffs

[chilly crane]

#coming-soon 🤨

[odd night]

Needs better camouflage if it has to shoot often and in smaller alphas yeah

[forest basin]

I don't understand why people are saying batchat is getting a nerf. Both guns become competitive. I think the 105 is the choice for me. It gets a deadlier clip and it dumps the clip at the same speed, but it takes longer to reload the clip. Buff imo

[delicate folio]

There may be some changes after the open test

[waxen osprey]

When are these changes arriving? Any specific update?

[delicate folio]

The open test will be in a couple of weeks, by the way 🙂

[delicate folio]

10.3

[humble flint]

My opinion is positive towards bc 25t changes. Now has 2 guns that probably have completely different feelings. Also I suppose it has the most view range now?

[austere citrus]

will the testing be available to regular testers as well

[rocky briar]

I like that Wargaming is making both guns have a distinct reason to play them, each gun has its advantages and disadvantages.

I'm actually also kinda liking the 113(apparently an unpopular opinion) due to it getting more mobile and getting more turret armor despite the alpha nerf and accuracy nerf

@burnt venture BC 100mm is for masochists who wanna play a lesser TVP

[burnt venture]

The 100mm gun isn't even an option here lol. Longer clip times and lower alpha for 1080 instead of 1050 is laughable, and 3mm pen isn't make or break.

If you choose the 100mm gun you're actually dumb for making your tank an uncomfortable TVP

[jagged crown]

Mino need 3.0 intraclip instead of 3.5

[gleaming apex]

hooperxcompare#0 has been warned.

[mental haven]

Thx for answer.

Can you share the armor profiles of other tanks? Im very curious about vk90 and 215b

[twin egret]

It kinda is though thanks to Calibrated Shells

[mystic cedar]

i dont think so guys may france get buff like japan or even Eu may bec only 1 thing getting nerf is TVP as my friend say this so i dont think he will do an announcement for tank tech tree getting buff or nerf today also my friend told me update today start in 8/17/2023 at 4:30 clock i getting bad feeling about this

[gleaming apex]

blueperiodbl00d#6951 has been warned.

[tawny prairie]

rip 113

[unique scaffold]

wth is the amx m54 changes? it becomes literally useless??

[gleaming apex]

hooperxcompare#0 was muted.

[rare sparrow]

Poor Wz-132-1, only thing it had going for it was DPM, now that its getting -400 DPM it has no plus sides...

[orchid grove]

There’s literally no point in it though when the 105 only has 30 less clip potential, and it unloads 2s faster

[gleaming apex]

frontlinefromage#0 has been warned.

[remote sluice]

id love to have the foch alpha buff :))

[gleaming apex]

tweeckered#0 has been warned.

[odd night]

360 alpha

[austere citrus]

honestly just give bat chat a 5-6 clip, its not gonna be better. staying out in the open that long = 1400 slap by 183

300 * 6 for 100mm and 340*4 for 105mm (imo)

sounds crazy but actually test it and you will find it works

the problem with batchat is that its hard to unleash its mag beacuse if you peak too long, you just get smacked by HE.

what is the point if you can just play leo 1 with amazing dpm and better alpha

you would be lucky to even pen all your shots with the bad pen

[drowsy plaza]

Anyone can sign up for Open Test. But that isn’t a balance related issue

[twin egret]

Yeah I was thinking about the alpha output it would have, that was my concern. Thanks for telling me. And even then, the 100mm shouldn't really be an option in the first place

[main grotto]

So far, which tanks do you guys think are the biggest winners and will be the stongest?

[torpid wraith]

Probably the worst changes yet nearly every tank gets worse of a stupid change. Batchat interesting change and 30b finally dpm buff everything else if just stupid or unnecessary

[rare sparrow]

+30 dmg a shot is nothing at cost of -400 DPM.. thats laughable, when during rng you may not even feel much difference..

[rocky briar]

The leopard 1 got a DPM buff too, so the 30B is basically still not worth the money

@unique scaffold the final part is the change to alpha damage 30 on standard 20 on Premium and HE

[unique scaffold]

i dont understand.
AMX m54 is losing tungstens for reactive armor which doesn't need
its losing is unique higher alpha of 480 for a 460 (or 450? the stats are written really unclear) also losing 30mm of frontal armor which means anything will easily pen it, and also losing 20mm of pen (on all rounds?)
you think changing 310 AP gold to 290 heat is a good idea? it will be completely unusable! also gun accuracy stats are horrible for a normal bad dpm 460 alpha gun, which is going to have the worst pen values of any tier X heavy? wth? am i reading amx m54 changes wrong?? or wg is high

@austere citrus bro amx m54 is gonna be the new worst tier X tank, Bet.
Huge, paper frontal armor, bad accuracy bad dpm normal 460 alpha with no tungsten, and absolutely ZERO pen on all shell types.
completely useless tank.

[pale oyster]

The on movement dispersion is quite horrible on 50b. The t57 accuracy is noticably better. I feel like T57 is the one you should be comparing to since it's another autoloader instead of that 5A which has way better armor so would make sense it has a worse gun handling.

[cinder gazelle]

please do something with the 112 Glacial and the WZ-111

[austere citrus]

in most recent news? 113 gft is gonna be cracked. 111 5a will be harder to play but more rewarding if you are better. 113 is a hit or miss, probably still strong but not as good as the obj 777 II, chinese light is getting better imo (dpm nerf is kinda yikes though), wz 121 is getting stronger but even with tungsten, kinda a mid tank (will try it out)

french line on the other hand? entire line is absolute poopoo, no reason to play it. amx mle 54 will still be a decent tank but by no means strong.

[drowsy plaza]

@scenic olive maybe don’t cherry pick a larger cal gun.

[stray lance]

They just butchered the amx mle 54

[twin egret]

It's not that butchered, more like they shouldn't have touched the premium AP

[patent escarp]

Chinese lt will be still useless after update
APCR -> AP? a lot buff ok
dpm? quite nerf, but alpha buff so don't care
fuel tank? still 150hp good firewood yet
Idk why ammorack durability so high for chinese lt and too low fuel tank hp

[rocky briar]

Mle 54 Joined the

Grille, 215B, Vickers Light Club

[unique scaffold]

@scenic olive u are crazy
50b aimtime is horrible
also with its horrible bloom, and the fact it's a fast gameplay Clipper, it completely ruins it's playstyle
it absolutely needed the aimtime buff, it was so bad u couldn't even use the buffed intraclip speed cause gun 90% of the time wasnt fast enough to aim in.
(the one u see in blitzstars is Base aimtime, which is a factor that gets bigger depending on how fast u are moving hull, forward-backward speed and turret).
50b aimtime is definitely really Bad for what it needs to do.

[cinder gazelle]

add the 130 mil to the amx

[scenic olive]

U don’t know what ur talking about💀.the peanut guy was trying to make a point that the 50b has bad aim time and I proved him wrong, and u just chose some of the most accurate heavy tank guns in the game and u talkin bout cherry picking😂1.84 sec aim time is not bad in anyway, which will get buffed next update by like 0.5

[drowsy plaza]

AMX M4 Mle 54 isn’t really a negative. Turret will still be solid. Hull was already paper for those who can aim. Sure the tungsten loss is a loss compared to Reactive Armor as that’s fairly useless for pubby games, but the traverse gain is significant. I think it will benefit better players overall.

[burnt venture]

AMX 50B losing its hull armor just so it won't have the same traverse as an E100:

[stray lance]

No they got rid of tungesten first of all which made it incredibly strong for the mle. THEY ARE NERFING THE ARMOUR ASWELL which keep in mind was nerfed before the initial release. it was strong but can be semi buttered with prammo but now there’s no hope. And also they butchered pretty much everything else except the reload and mobility wise

[rocky briar]

Failing to actually compare the 50B to the tank it competes with, the 50B has the 2nd worst aim time among Tier 10 Clipping heavies, only beat by the 2 Shot Yoh(which has Reticle anyways)

(It's cropped badly because screenshoted it on phone)

[humble flint]

My honest reaction to changes
Wz 111 5A: nice changes
Wz 113: rip 💀
Wz 132-1: now hits bigger numbers and isnt a T-62A wannabe, nice. Might actually start grinding it now
Wz 121: like a heavium now. Tungsten shells + adrenalin gonna break hearts
121B: unimportant changes
Wz 113 G FT: solid frontline TD
AMX 50B: only better
Foch 155: how much more is this tank gonna be disrespected 😞
AMX M4 54: rip tungsten rip big alpha. Was planning to buy it but now nevermind
AMX 30B: kinda like a leopard 1 variant now, it needed buff for ages
BC 25t : tank with most view range now. 350 alpha is beautiful. Stock gun is like a funny lil alternative now

[mystic cedar]

after update the T57 heavy reload will be long it will take alot time

[shy wren]

Alpha buff and reload nerf allows the Wz to utilize the 7s spotting mechanic a little bit better imo. Pen and vision buff is pretty nice too.

[pale oyster]

Yes those accurate heavy tanks happen to be the heavy tanks that are about what 50b should be compared to. You can't just compare a heavily armored tank with bad accuracy that is able to frontline to a tank that is gonna get nuked. 1.84 is pretty bad for what it's trying to do.

[drowsy plaza]

It’s got poor aim time for an autoloader. You might want to consider that three different posters have refuted your argument and the fact that it may just be you who don’t know what they are talking about.

[twin egret]

WG needs to set things straight for the Foch, it has been a ridiculous pathwalk for it already. They seem indecisive about whether or not to make the "stock" gun good. Obviously the answer should be that it should be a viable gun alternative. Hell, give it a better gun arc for that matter and accuracy, that way the Shotgun isn't just a better option.

[gleaming apex]

slapperonblitz#0 has been warned.

[rocky briar]

155mm level alpha would be nice on the Single shot gun, to Make it either a clipping burst tank, or a Higher damage single shot tank. Give people choices

[thick stag]

jp2 is a nice tank in my opinion, it has nice speed

[drowsy plaza]

Honestly the single shot gun was the best option on the Foch 155 currently. The DPM and dispersion in the two shot is terrible. The changes just make it a tank that no one should care to play now, unless the 2 shot dispersion change is fairly significant

[drowsy plaza]

Nothing is going to occur in tier 8 until the X changes are settled and observed. Then you will see trickle down.

[scenic olive]

I cannot get a point through your thick skulls, I’m saying that the 50b HAS GOOD AIM TIME IN GENERAL which peanutbutt is denying. Y’all keep showing comparisons with only accurate heavy tanks. 1.84 SEC AIM TIME IS NOT BAD. This is the original point I was trying to get across but y’all can’t seem to grasp that, and the aim time after the update will be 1.36 which would make it one of the best if not the best base aim times for a heavy tank

[unique scaffold]

i dont exactly understand what they are changing. the writing is Really poor
"Frontal armor thickness, armor penetration, and avg. shot damage are decreased (by 30/20/20 points for the latter)"
they listed 3 values change and then 3 numbers.
in english this means 30mm front armor nerf, 20mm alpha nerf (on all rounds?) and 20mm pen nerf (on all rounds?)
can we get some clarification of amx m54 changes? @lapis yacht

[bronze nest]

I'm talking about the old tanks, which stand out a lot

[austere citrus]

this is gonna sound crazy but i would give foch a third round in exchange for higher reload time and 480 alpha

@fiery frost there is no reason tbh

[twin egret]

It's annoying that the dev team really doesn't want that in Wotb. We already saw the removal of derp guns on low tiers, the removal of the pee shooter guns on low tiers, heck, the lack of alternative gun options at higher tiers. I mean, why didn't mle. Have the 150mm gun option? Or how the 907 could mount the a 122mm? More specifically, why can't the E 100 have it's 12,8mm gun be competitive? The Vk 72 has 12,8mm compatibility.

[gleaming apex]

gdsaunders#0 has been warned.

[fiery frost]

Why play the frenchies anymore

[gleaming apex]

__hope#0 has been warned.

[lone escarp]

Foch is gonna be fun now

[rocky briar]

I should point out as well that using blitz stars tank compare for aim time values is very unreliable, in game my 50B fully kitted out no equipment has a 4 second aimtime

@drowsy plaza apologies for the spoilers thing, just did it to preface a joke about the 30B staying the same, and I didn't see that spoilers weren't allowed in the rules at all

[lost crane]

No, 30/20/20 is only for avg dmg per shot (ap, premium, he)

[jagged crown]

Foch single shot need alpha buff like 650

[drowsy plaza]

They only listed the alpha decrease by shell types.

[glad cove]

Lol war gaming gave pbr to obj 268 which buffed the armor (not a lot tho) but next update they're going to nerf the armor

[pale oyster]

Um....... you know that lke..... what. The 0.5 aim sec improvement doesn't make 1.86 secs to 1.3 you know that right. It's 0.5 from it's aimtime from max to minimum so... from 3.6 seconds. So... it's not going to be as broken as you think. Yes it has good aim time in general but like..... if I'm going to frontline and take hits with it. We are comparing it to accurate heavy tanks because those are tanks that it should be comapred to. T57 vs 50B is like...... not an unknown thing?

[gleaming apex]

blueperiodbl00d#6951 has been warned.

[rocky briar]

Nice 1.86 second aimtime on my Maxed out 50B just bought the equipment so I can get such an OP Aimtime value

Sarcasm btw, I hope you see your amazing aimtime

[burnt venture]

Mobility buffs for HTs/TDs in 10.3:

• Yoh
• E5
• T95E6
• E4
• Jag
• Grille
• Maus
• VK72
• 268v4
• IS-4
• 215b
• 183
• 5A
• 113
• MLE

Mobility buffs for MTs/LTs in 10.3:

• 140
• T-22
• M60

Mobility nerfs for HTs/TDs in 10.3:

• Concept
• E3
• IS-7
• 260
• 113GFT

Mobility nerfs for MTs/LTs in 10.3:

• 62A
• STB
• 121

There's just a smaller and smaller mobility gap between classes, nice one

[unique scaffold]

writing is bad but i think this is what its written
penetration change nerf is unknown.
front armor nerf is unknown.
Alpha gets down to 450 for ap which is pretty bad considering it has no tungsten and mediocre accuracy for this alpha.
Also, they are changing 310 ap gold to 310 heat and NERFING the pen on top of that.
its true they re buffing dpm, its gonna reach 2700+ dpm with rammer, but this tank plays in hulldown, and 300 heat would be absolutely horrible, so you are forced to use calibrated.
this means that is HULLDOWN tank, currently having 310 AP gold and 2600~ dpm, 480 alpha + tungsten, is going to get: 330 cali heat (?) 2600~ dpm (with cali), 450 alpha and no tungsten.
All that for gaining better mobility (which is useless for a tank that plays mostly hulldown) and reactive armor (again, useless for an invincible hulldown tank) Also they are nerfing the front armor, so they are penalising anything thats not hulldown even more, while also making amx m54 a less effective hulldown tank.
the front armor is currently just enough to bounce some shells, since they re killing the gun, it would make sense a small front armor buff, the front armor nerf is just the last nail on the coffin
amx m54 will join the Worst tier X heavies club.
"but it has strong turret armor!"
the price it pays is an Immensely huge profile. there s many other tanks with same or better gun depression, better guns and strong enough turrets that are smaller
and they all make for a better hulldown tank

unless the mobility buffs will be crazy good m54 is garbage.
it needs to be basically on buffed 50b levels of mobilityto be a tank that is overall as good as it is now with all those nerfs its getting.

[main grotto]

world of heaviums? 🙂

[winter dagger]

New heavy meta, heavium meta 🥲

[humble depot]

Wow WG. You took the only good part of the Chinese heavy branch and ruined it. All it needed was a traverse speed buff, and instead you once again are trying to make it play a completely different role.

[scenic olive]

What is your point all the other accurate heavy tanks y’all compared with have worse aim time in game to.😭this the last time I’m gonna say it the amx 50b aim time is not bad and it’s gonna be really good for the massive clip it’s gonna have next update. Gn

[glad cove]

The bat chat changes are weird
And wowsers the wz 132 1 gets barely better at street fighting

[burnt venture]

Y'all can complain about heavy tanks getting weaker vs. other heavy tanks, but those HTs getting faster just means it becomes harder to play meds and lights once again.

I won't be surprised at all if a bunch more MTs and LTs join the 1200 ace bar hell after 10.3

[rocky briar]

I miss the good old days of the medium metas

[pale oyster]

It started with you saying it was good...... and the update will make it broken. I'm glad you changed your point :)

Do the reactions do anything? I noticed the IS7 reaction gone now

[fiery frost]

I wish what WG would do is to send out the changes on discord or anywhere first, grab the opinions from the top/pro players or everyone, then modify the changes based off of the reactions given. At this point, they jus screwing us over

[odd night]

Well the gimmick was the two big rounds i think to be diverse it would need to have two times 580/640 with 5/ 7,5 intraclip and a 11 / 15 interclip

[lost crane]

No, the 113 need a nerf, and even with these nerf, it will be a heavy with 3.2k dpm wich is enought.

[twin egret]

I'm glad they're nerfing it. It never deserved the dpm it has anyways

[clear shuttle]

people forgetting the 113 is getting more pen and aim time

[humble depot]

Tell me how, in the Tier X landscape with TVPs, 4005s, and 50Bs, the WZ-113 needed to be nerfed.

[burnt venture]

Even medium meta wasn't really all the meds. It was just 140 that was meta and that tank was pretty broken.

Mediums though were at least on par and sometimes better than certain heavy tanks. Nowadays facing any heavy and most TDs in a medium even starting from the side or rear is a massive headache. There's almost no way to avoid eating tons of damage because of just how much more mobile and how much more firepower HTs and TDs have.

In a lot of games most MTs and LTs basically cannot fight HTs and heavy TDs on even footing. And this is even MORE true for non-superuni players, to the point where if you're not good at the game playing an MT hinders your team even more than it does now.

@glad cove it's a 1200 XP ace bar, which is the default for tier X tanks when not enough people are playing the tank to give it a real ace bar.

[glad cove]

Oh guys I'm such a goofy goober
War gaming is NERFING the wz 132 1, it will lose up to 400 dpm.
What the spruce
It's already the worst t10 light with an ace bar of about 3k-ish dmg

[scenic olive]

I still think it’s good, u right I didn’t type that. Ok actually Gn this time

[remote sluice]

580 alpha w 5s intraclip would do. the foch should be more unique than being a turretless yoh

[rocky briar]

I particularly liked the meta when it was Progs and 215Bs in comp rather than old school 140 meta.

At least alot of meds in this update got Actual useful buffs to make them more viable(10.3), sucks they can't just keep heavies slow and have to make them big mediums now, I thought that was only the 215Bs and E6s Job

[bronze leaf]

WHY NOT PENETRATION BUFF FOR WZ 111 5A? WTF WARGAMING?

[twin egret]

Got less Dpm for more traverse, it's getting better turret traverse speed so it will be easier to be able to line up with shots more. What's more to ask?

[night geode]

they buff the reload by 1sec, you still complaining? 💀

[odd night]

Exactly. I think the changes are super bold and interesting. It seems more like a rework than a change. Also about the 132 i tuink the pen and damage increase more than make up for the dpm and compliment much better the camo mechanics. 400 dpm seems like a fair price.
@bronze leaf wait for the dispersion nerf i am sure it will be really light ans that the armor loss will be negligible on the turret they know what theyre doing

[pale oyster]

Cali exists

[lost crane]

Maybe because there are more than 4 tank in tier 10 🤷‍♂️ and 3.4k dpm for a mobile but still armoured heavy tank is close to op. And 113 is not only nerfed, it will obtain more penetration, mobility and armour.

[unique scaffold]

dude wz 113 is currently OP, and if left unchanged it would still ve been an amazingly good t10 heavy.
they re literally killing tanks, 113 is gonna be fine with 400 alpha, its really fast and armor is pretty solid

@lone escarp i think 113 is op cuz i am good with it.
if u think its bad, u need to get good.

@rocky briar Dude stop being a clown, im not the one who started this cringe "get good" thing, u re replying to the wrong person.

[jagged crown]

Single shot foch need dmg buff like 650

[lone escarp]

Its not honestly, just get good

@unique scaffold i think its fun asf, so idk why say that when i think its fun 😂

[rocky briar]

I think 30B is op cuz I'm good with it, if u think it's bad, u need to get good

@unique scaffold when did I start the get good thing, could you link the message please

[humble depot]

If it is OP, why is it not spammed like the TVP? Wouldn't it be an easy way for bad players to get lots of damage? Wouldn't the ace bar be nigh unobtainable for most players? It isn't OP, it was perfectly fine. All WG needed to do is make some small changes that wouldn't mess with how the tank should be played.

[pale oyster]

I have 3.4k average in it and I don't think it's OP. I just think it's good. IDK maybe you like fatness with 4k average in it. @unique scaffold

What is your definetion of being good in it, 2k avg?

[burnt venture]

Don't you love balancing armor around HT penetration

[whole silo]

Okay..... I love the 50b but even gave some more.....

Like.... T57 heavy < 50b after 10.3

[unique scaffold]

This is because a tank being spammed doesn't mean its OP.
tvp is spammed AND OP.
113 is unpopular but its incredibly strong and noobs dont know it
183, grille, sheri etc are nowhere near op, they re actually pretty mid, but they are spammed.
Are you trying to say 183 is spammed so its op? is this your argument?

113 is easily in the top 3 heavies right now. its literally a flawless tank, it has everything except laser accuracy.

3400 avg dmg and 78wr seems reasonable to me @pale oyster
all my other high wr heavies have terrible guns so they only win but arent as good at farming dmg. (things like is7 is4 etc)

@rocky briar "irs op because im good in it" wasnt my argument. i just dumbed down his "U think 113 is op? get good!" which means nothing

[austere citrus]

i dont get this? what does this pic mean?

@glad cove which part is changing

[glad cove]

It's the changes to the wz 113g ft armor

[lost crane]

30B isn't bad currently, it's an ok tank, and good player can perform well in it (but it will be a very good tank after 10.3),
@humble depot , it's not a tank that can easily deal dmg for bad player, because it have poor depression. But its one of the best t10 heavy tank currently, it have dpm, armour and mobility)
You don't understand, 113 is op because of insanely good stat, it have better dpm and mobility than most of heavy tank, without low alpha or no armour. And it will have better armour and mobility in exchange of some dpm, but will still have a good gun by heavy standart

[rocky briar]

I replied with that because "It's OP because I'm good in it" is a terrible argument and I can say the exact same thing with any other tamk

@lost crane look at the message I replied to, I repeated the same argument he did as a joke

[lone escarp]

Lmao 😂

[night geode]

its just not a bad tank after 10.3

[teal palm]

I’m a bit salty over the M4 54 changes, although im really interested to see how the 113G FT ends up in game

[humble depot]

Flawless? Really? It has a very long hull, limiting gameplay around corners lest you expose yourself. Gun depression is awful, so it has to fight on level terrain. The low hull is also limiting in that regard. Hull traverse speed is poor, making it easy to flank. Turret is centrally mounted, confounding all the previously mentioned issues. If you can't see how all those are flaws that a half decent enemy can exploit, then I can't help you.

[fathom rain]

Auto loaders are getting more broken. I can't wait for a 35%er with amx 50b to YOLO me, deal 1300 damage and die

[unique scaffold]

Remember 99% of meds are getting massive dpm buffs or other sort of changed in 10.3
30b is paying with an unknown turret armor nerf
and we all know an amx 30b with turret armor that doesn't troll anymore, is just a leo1 with -500 dpm, pen, accuracy and mobility. if 30b had this reload buff in this CURRENT patch it would be really good
but -1 sec reload in 10.3 to the med tank with the worst single shot dpm is basically Just enough to stay in line with others.

@humble depot tank being big just means it harder to play.
centre turret allows 113 for a decent sidescrape
hull traverse is currently pretty good, it got buffed you probably missed that.
-6 gun dep alone isn't enough to make a tank trash, we know soviet style heavies are balanced around -6 gun dep.
if you arent able play this tank, I can't help you

@lost crane 3600 dpm on a med in 10.3 is probably like 3300 dpm now
which is how much dpm 30b should have to be decent, and not 3100 which is horrible

[normal fulcrum]

WZ-121 a added tungsten shells and improved gunpowder

[night geode]

30B's gun mantlet is still there, hmmm... its somehow gonna be similar to pre-nerf vickers light
they said turret armor but not gun mantlet, idk btw

[lost crane]

yes, but 30b will achieve 3,6k dpm which will be better than most of med, even after 10.3. But yes, it depend on how much they will nerf the turret armour
@unique scaffold no, 3600 after 10.3 is like 3400 now, better than most of med, but not the best dpm, and accuracy buff will also help the tank

[icy pilot]

let's goo the only 2 French tanks I have are getting buffed

[slender latch]

113 just got a helluva buff this would make it on par with the russian HTs

[fringe quest]

I don’t care about the turret armor, at least it got its well deserved DPM buff

[normal fulcrum]

WZ-132-1 what a apcr rounds replacement ap rounds ammo

[humble depot]

Now where do you get the idea that I can't play the 113? I have it, and it's a fun tank, but it still has flaws that I do my best to work around. As I've said, if you can't see how these are flaws, i can't help you.

[clear shuttle]

the more i think about it the more i see the 113 getting buffed over nerfed
its losing 20 alpha and 180-200 dpm for

• more pen
• more turret armour
• less aim time
• turret traverse buff
• slightly better mobility

[twin egret]

Work around those flaws. Hell, it's getting better turret traverse speed, MAKING it better on getting the gun lined up on a sneaking opponent. You seem to want more traverse in the tank. WG gave it more traverse in the form of turret traverse.

[broken kernel]

You guys should remove shell reload boost from bat chat and decrease the intra clip for both guns 105mm = 2.8 -> 2.4

[shy wren]

AP should be better; better shell normalization against angled armor and less pen dropoff. The added 7mm of pen should also help it in that regard.

[austere citrus]

tbh dpm nerf is fair, but alpha shouldve been kept

[stone drum]

Is this real????? Is every tier X French tank getting improved!!!???

[charred heron]

They killed amx mle 54

[unique scaffold]

unless amx m54 is going to get 10.3 amx 50b levels of mobility im gonna just sell it.
i don't need wz 5a from wish

[clear shuttle]

i agree

[fringe quest]

The 50b buff is massive, hull armor, idc, it’s turret is paper so it don’t matter, that one issue is the handling and dispersion, there’s times I missed that one shell or 2 (or just my skill issue lol)

[unique scaffold]

Does anyone have the armor look or the MLE yet, for me that’s gonna determine if it’s a buff or nerf

[ancient rampart]

They reset the reactions on the batchat

[austere citrus]

no, entire french tank line got obliterated harder by WG than german panzers did during battle of france

[void siren]

Foch 155 is getting nuked again

[charred heron]

You don’t need to see it, the hull armor can already be penned by heavy heat now, nerfing it will only make it weaker. Unless they give it amx 50b speed mle will be unusable, with it’s nerfed gun alpha, pen and handling

At least I have my mk6

[graceful ravine]

The m4 MLE and 113 changes lmfao what a joke, taking every aspect that is good and uniqur about the tanks and nuking them lol

[dense ruin]

Yes, they absolutely killed the M4 54. Why do they have to completely obliterate the alpha that makes the tanks special just to streamline it into another generic heavium with good mobility, DPM and decent-ish armour? Why can't it keep the alpha in exchange for turret traverse or other settings?

This trend of nerfing what makes a tank good to balance it they have already taken with the IS-7 and IS-4 is ridiculously tone-deaf, don't they look at how disliked those changes are?

[woeful mason]

Not so surprise 113 gets even bettet with these 5 yo balance team

[unique scaffold]

W WG for buffing batchat

[stone drum]

lol, Foch didn't get any meaningful changes, batchat, 30b, & 50b got nice buffs. Only mle was actually nerfed.

[fringe quest]

The Foch didn’t get any love and instead still getting nerfed, the M4 54, thank god I didn’t buy the tank because when I saw the nerfs on it, like really

[remote sluice]

not actually nuked since nothing on it changes that much, the accuracy and shell speed even got better. however, this foch 155 is not unique. its just a turretless yoh/mino w the autoloader, and a worse 268 w the single shot.

id love to see the single shot gun get 640 alpha or higher, while the autoloader gets 580 alpha w 5s intraclip for 2 shells. the reload can be 19s (equipped w full provisions) to balance it out while still giving it the uniqueness it deserves

[charred heron]

And WG Really love HEAT as prammo, taking away amx mle 54’s ability to counter hulldown super conq and one of its best strength

[quick lichen]

Yeah I was curious about that too. The dpm nerf isn’t that important given the buffs

[austere citrus]

they gonna give 60tp 200 alpha, kran 1k dpm, mino 5mm turret, prog 5km/h, tvp 120 sec reload, vz 55 2 degrees of gun depression

[placid python]

I feel like we're seeing a trend of "nerf characteristics" and compensate with premium consumables.
I feel like im obligated to run these things, otherwise these changes are just straight nerfs. That's not a good thing, people should have the choice to run their own loadouts, not be pressured into using one consumable that is objectively better than the others

[slender latch]

So some tanks are chosen as the sacrificial lamb for being underpowered while others get to be lucky and be strong for a while?

[quick lichen]

Op consumables are the laziest and worst way for wg to balance tanks. Should never have been implemented

[fathom rain]

The single shot gun on the foch already has terrible accuracy. And they made it worse!!

[quick lichen]

The change to the 121 is so unbelievably pointless

Hot take: all the standard alpha for class auto loaders should have 3 shells and only three shells

[woeful mason]

For real tho, looking at how a top tier one like badger still getting buff, and 215b get armor nerf lol. This game need a proper balance team to go on, and I'm not surprise to see a Strv K buff next week

[quick lichen]

There’s no need for the 50b to have 1520 clip potential

[quick lichen]

They always need the 215b and have for years. I don’t understand why they do it given it’s slow speed and fragile modules

[rocky briar]

I miss the Old pre 9.1 50B,

It was Accurate, had Good DPM and had an average clip

[nimble blade]

I don’t think the batchchat tier X needs to do less damage cause the heavy tank already does more and has a better gun. It’s autoloader is already quite a bit worse than the heavy tank equivalent

[unkempt quest]

Indirectly nerfs the snipe potential of each tank, since long range shots will be harder to hit, as well as making the sueprcharger equipment an actual viable option instead of being pointless compared to the other equipment choice

[stone drum]

You should not be using the singleshot gun on foch.

[quick lichen]

It was already good as is. The kran for sure made the 50b feel a bit more average but it still had a huge speed advantage

[unique scaffold]

and dpm.
old 50b had 3k ~ dpm

[remote sluice]

honestly if theyre gonna completely remove the 215b’s armor, they gotta at least give it like 45-50km/h top speed and remove the speed boost to make it a true heavium.

removing its armor and give it 36km/h top speed will make it a bad heavy that cant do heavy tank things

[orchid grove]

Heresy. 50 B is fine. Don’t touch my baby 😢

[quick lichen]

You’re finally getting a 4 shot bat and you already changed you name. Degenerate

[placid python]

This very confusing to me because WG seems to think that "balance" is adding one stat, but taking away another. It doesn't make any sense in the context of the objectively weaker tanks, who need buffs, not reworks. Why nerf the FV215bs armor? Why nerf the Foch stock gun? Why nerf the AMX 30bs turret? Why nerf the 4202's hesh gun? These are already fairly unpopular, low winrate tanks, is it not too much to just buff them, and leave it at that? This doesn't feel like balance, this feels like changing for the sake of changing

[solid sequoia]

Yes, all French tier 10s are becoming better

[safe rapids]

I hate some of these changes but overall better than last weeks

[quick lichen]

I don’t want it to be fast though. I want it to be a thinking persons heavy tank. When it first came out it had the highest dpm,best gun handling and an awesome turret. That was balanced by the sluggish speed, awkward rear turret and fragile modules. Then they ruined it

[austere citrus]

can we get OLD T110e5 with the big tumor but buff the hull/turret armor?, also buff the tumor armor

[rocky briar]

215B Should be reverted to how it was maybe with HP buffs to before its original DPM nerf imho

[dense prairie]

I never expected to live to the day BatChat had 350 dmg

[unkempt quest]

T95E6

[quick lichen]

Yeah I agree

215b gets 2600 hp, 34 kph max, .5 less on the reload and leave her be

[unique scaffold]

You know its actually possible to make ALL tanks unique and have their strengths and cons, and actually balanced between each other? without having tanks that are clearly powercrept, and tanks that are clearly powercreeping?
i dont see the point of this "meta tank rotation" of forcing players to spam the said buffed tanks, because all others are nerfed to awful performance levels.
just let your playerbase play whatever they like, and have all tanks balanced is not a thing you like?

[woeful mason]

Hey just want to say I really appreciate your voice for the updates, as one of the very rare mods here who actually have deep game knowledge and try not to stirr up the community. For 215B and many other hts these days, they better stop this mess and make them proper ht instead of just adding speed to everything

[stone drum]

50b will now aim fast enough you can run refined gun easily.

[quick lichen]

I want people to see that we aren’t just puppets of wg and I’m happy to speak out about things I see as problems

[remote sluice]

yea me too, but since wg is going for the no armor heavy then at least it gotta be super fast. a no armor heavy should not be going at 36km/h

[quick lichen]

I think wg should aim for a different system

Fast heavies
Average heavies
Super heavies

[orchid grove]

It’s been 350x5 for quite some time now, you can check the mod logs (if it even keeps track).

Also it’s only the small gun with 4 shells, and the alpha is being nerfed to 270 on it

[quick lichen]

Every tank should fit into one of the three and be balanced accordingly to others in its sub class

[austere citrus]

2800 HP and buff alpha to 420/390/480 imo (its armor is useless)?

@orchid grove i think it should get 300x6 tbh, 350x5 is kinda strong

more time to dish out big dmg (1800) but also super vulnerable

everything pens the 215b upper plate

[quick lichen]

I stand corrected

[visual shale]

Is Sheridan getting buffed/nerfed?

[quick lichen]

… no. Far too much. Let her keep the turret and somewhat useful upper plate. It doesn’t need anything else

[rocky briar]

I don't want the 215B to be just another heavy, it was always a unique and awkward rear turreted heavium that took skill to properly use, it was a popular tank among good players a long time ago and always had a very niche audience, then wargaming decided that nerfing it's DPM by 1 second off the reload was a perfectly logical decision, then they decided in 9.1 to give the DPM back but remove its Hull armor that was garbage and couldn't brawl heavies and make it equally useless against mediums, now the 215B has 3k DPM and is slow with no useful armor in a world of mediums and dangerous clippers that all get 3k DPM MINIMUM

I just want my old 215B back 😭

[stone moon]

Lots of tanks trying to become leopard 1 in 10.3

[quick lichen]

Crazy given the leopard 1 isn’t particularly great in practical usage

[unique scaffold]

in the recent times i feel like they ve tried SO MANY different balancing systems
and none of them seems to work imo
it looks like they have no idea what they re doing, constantly completely changing tanks back and forth, as if they have no idea what is the current tank's role on the battlefield or how well it performs, and dont even know what stats to change in order to change its role to something else they planned.

i feel like its a teen in his rebel phase, doing random things

@quick lichen It becomes esptonentially harder to understand what is the direction a tank is taking
with these changes everything becomes so Blurred. I just dont understand what they want the tank to be able to do with x y changes.

[twin egret]

The concern is that they don't want to follow tank philosophy

They're literally it imo

[quick lichen]

I agree. It doesn’t feel like there’s much reasoning behind certain changes

The 113 is a great example. They nerf the top speed but have buffed the dpm and traverse. Now it’s arguably just better than some of the mediums

What made the 113 interesting was it’s speed and slightly best dpm in heavy class at the expense of stupidly bad traverse

You had to adjust your play style to it and think in advance

That plays well with the 260 actually. Better traverse with less dpm

Imo. That is balance

That right there is the goal

[stone drum]

ngl i feel kinda bad for AMX m4 mle. 54, but I understand why WG nerfed it. I just wished they fixed the gun model.

[small crane]

can wg just buff/nerf reload time, the alpha change feels so incosistent
122mm can have 300-ish/400-ish damage which feels kinda inconsistent

[solid sequoia]

I’m not even sure it was entirely a nerf tbh

[quick lichen]

400 alpha guns range from 300-500 damage by design

[verbal igloo]

Lets give more tanks tungsten tho. because thats better than just balancing tanks

[austere citrus]

they really gotta give the leopard 1 a 120mm gun (optional) since leo 1a6 had a 120mm gun.

it could be like 420 alpha, more pen, less dpm, less accuracy (but still very good)

currently leopard's DPM is useless since its hard to peak since you get hit for 1400 hesh

i seriously believe the leopard 1 should get it to differentiate itself among other mediums

[distant river]

I think the reasoning is just that it is to make it easier for people to play

I don't believe I've seen any changes that make pkaystyles more awkward and more strange, and a lot seems to be about standardising properties across the board so you need to adapt less

@quick lichen Yup definitely, it also solves issues for WG of having to deal with difficult to balance tanks because you have less weird properties to consider deeply and everything is just similar enough to eachother

[quick lichen]

It’s like them removing the tier 1-4. It’s easier. It’s not actually better

[rocky briar]

The Old way people compared the T57 and 50B as well pre 9.1 was good balancing too imo, one was slower and had less DPM but a faster clip unload speed and more armor, while the other gave you more mobility and a way better gun for a slower unload speed and less armor

[unique scaffold]

And this is completely against what some WG red dudes have said here.
i ve read many times
"We are changing tanks to make them more unique and differentiate their playstyles!"
No wg!! u aint doing any of this 😂😂 u re making all tanks play the same and evening out uniqueness off tanks

i think the tanks are getting ALL less interesting compared to years ago
which is counterintuitive cause we have More tier X now than years ago
so,
We have more tanks than before, and they are more similar to each other than before
this is just a really bad move for gameplay

@quick lichen in wg's mind, 50b having 380 alpha instead of 400 is a big enough reason to play one over the other 😂😂

@unkempt quest quick burst? are you talking about MVI yoh? 😂

[quick lichen]

I was against the wz120 and 121 gun depression buffs. The lack of gun depression SHOULD be a challenge. It SHOULD make you play differently and feel awkward if you don’t

[quick lichen]

Exactly. If you want speed, 50b. If you want fast burst damage, 57

Now what reason is there to play a 57 when you could use a kran or 50b?

[unkempt quest]

T57 has that quick burst, while the kran is a hulldown bunker and the 50b is a fast tank with huge burst potential but takes a bit to unload

[small crane]

Stop coping abt Leopard man, the Leopard wg use in game is literally first version Leopard 1
Not Leopard 1"a6"
The current buff is good

[quick lichen]

Imo, it’s not enough of a reason to want to play the 57

[woeful mason]

There are different sites out there like blitzstar where you can have tanks' stats for a long period of time, seeing which have good/bad winrate and their popularity among others. It's always the way to balance stuffs in so many strategic games these days and hard to believe these people are doing it on their own interests. Every tanks need good amount of strengths and weaknesses for different usage, but seems like for 113 except for hulldown it's an invincible tank after update.

For @visual shale sheri gets huge nerf

[stone drum]

I mean they kinda killed the appeal of it.

[solid sequoia]

It’s becoming faster and getting more dpm

[rocky briar]

The problem is that the other tanks offer way more, Kran offers a level of versatility with it's auto reloader and great turret armor.

50B offers way better burst and mobility and now it's getting a better Unload speed for its shells.

Plus the Yoh 2 shot kinda already stole the Quick burst role from the T57 anyways

T57 is kinda just a tank that exists now

[quick lichen]

The yoh has made the 57 a bit irrelevant

[placid python]

It feels like WG is just changing everything for its own sake because they want their new season to feel fresh. It's normal for these live service games to come with huge patch notes every season, but other companies aren't just changing things for the sake of it. They deliberately change things that need to be changed, and they provide explanations and philosophy with it. Players need to be able to predict and understand and follow the balancing philosophy. This feels chaotic and completely unpredictable. I don't understand why they choose to lean into the strengths of certain tanks, while flattening out the strengths and uniqueness of others. Some changes are just flat out weird, like giving the light tank mechanics to the medium tanks for russia and china, or nerfing stock guns that nobody even uses to begin with. Generally, player complaints line up with patch changes in most games, but this isn't the case here. How is this community supposed to talk about tank balance and engage with the game when every philosophy wargaming puts out seemingly changes and contradicts itself on a whim, without any explanation? Blitzhangar being down since like 9.1 really doesn't help either

[unkempt quest]

The clip reload is getting better, not the shell reload.

The yoh has nowhere near the damage output of the t57 heavy. It's a middleground between the two

[hearty steeple]

Where did 50b get better unload speed for its shells? Unless you actually meant loading speed(clip reload)

[verbal igloo]

How many major tier 10 changes did we get in the last year?(with this one)I think 3. Thats crazy. And while they change tier 10 they do literally nothing for tier 7/8/9

[thorny timber]

Why is 113 getting humiliated like this,i thought it was just another unpopular heavy that was good as it was?

[fringe quest]

And now it’s getting worse

[unique scaffold]

@quick lichen like, let's take amx m54 for example
as of now, its a modified version of the role standard heavium
it has the niche higher alpha of 480, ehnached by tungstens, niche gold pen, balanced by the poor dpm and HUGE armor profile, which is a Negative on a heavium, also bad hull traverse.
its clear what amx m54 does and is good at.
but with the changes? they re making it faster.. and nerfing alpha+pen+ hull armor? it does really look like random stats changes for a tank like amx m54, what are they trying to turn it into? breaking into T95e6 class? or current obj260? why? i dont understand? and making obj260 break into amx m54 class? 😵‍💫😵‍💫 just why, they keep changing tank roles, balance changes should primarily aim to even out tanks' performance, not their uniqueness or playstyle.
they re making a mess with tank performances but evening out tank playstyles...

[rocky briar]

Meant to say clip reload speed, it must've auto corrected to unload since I said it a couple times.

@unkempt quest the Yoh has DPM, and Shell burst speed depending on gun choice,(Id rather sit out for 1.7 seconds and deal 900 damage than sit out between 4.4-5 seconds for potentially 1,200) plus turret armor and a troll hull, If the T57 had turret armor that was consistently reliable then it would have a place but it doesn't

@lime vector #coming-soon

[lime vector]

where are the chinese/french tank changes?

[stone drum]

Yes, but it lost most of its alpha & Is retaining the poor accuracy.

[remote sluice]

guys, the wz-132-1 got a reload speed nerf and an alpha buff, so now it should have 7s reload time

but come to think abt it. the tank only stays visible for 7s cus of the mechanic. the new 7s reload time will make the tank disappear right upon reloading a shell, making the peekaboo playstyle behind a bush for that thing much more effective since ppl cant rlly see it anymore. not to mention the thing hits harder now.

so the reload time nerfs indirectly buffed the effectiveness of the tank’s mechanic, which can be considered as an overall buff for that thing.

[unkempt quest]

like i've been saying, most of the tank changes improve the playstyle of the tanks, while nerfing effectiveness outside of that playstyle

[stray mortar]

Rip Amx m4 🫡 , you were truly a chad till WG touched you

[knotty surge]

Amx 30b buff was a long time coming, feel it's pretty okay. I'd wish they give it it's speed back or kept the armor for the simple reason the the stb-1 buffs exist. Not too bad though.

[remote sluice]

the 215b armor nerf messes up the main playstyle of that tank so yea

[stone drum]

Funnily enough the name is oxymoronic, the AMX m4 didn't exsist by 1954.

Still though if they had Buffed the dpm that would have been an interesting.

[solid sequoia]

It’s becoming better lmao

[verbal igloo]

🇫🇷 AMX M4 mle. 54: Reactive Armor consumable will replace Tungsten Rounds. Terrain crossing capacity, engine power, and hull traverse speed are improved; reload time is reduced by 1.34 s. HEAT is set as the premium shell type. Frontal armor thickness, armor penetration, and avg. shot damage are decreased (by 30/20/20 points for the latter). @solid sequoia where better?. 100 likes to 700 dislikes btw. This one is gonna get 🍅

[fringe quest]

Bat chat best light in 10.3 now 😳

[thorny timber]

Nah leo 1 is the best light although it isn't even one

[icy linden]

After the balance change which tank gonna be stronger than other wz 121 or stb 1

[bronze leaf]

balls (STB 1)

[solid sequoia]

It’s becoming a fast heavy with 450 alpha and 2.7k dpm. And it’s getting reactive. The community is pretty poor at seeing all of the buffs and nerfs, usually focusing on what’s becoming worse about a tank.

[verbal igloo]

It still loses Tungsten, Frontal armor,pen and avrg dmg. All that for a spd buff on a super heavy? Where is the Logic here

[safe rapids]

What people are made about is WG changing the fundamental way a tank is laid out. They tweak stuff but never stray too far from what the tank is supposed to do until these and the last round of T10 balance changes. Any consideration of what the tank is like and was balanced to be as is thrown out the window.

[fringe quest]

So it’s mle 54 still worth getting after all these changes

[long light]

I would wait until blitz post shows the armor profile so we see what actually changes

[rare plover]

Honestly i wanted the foch 155 to deal more, 600 or 500(for the autoloader) its to low for a 155mm, it could deal not like the e3 just like old derp gun for 640

[solid sequoia]

It’s almost like they’re changing its role to not be a super heavy. Crazy idea, but maybe, just maybe, they’re making it a fast heavy with relatively high dpm and alpha.

[remote sluice]

640 alpha for an autoloader is very busted. id say 580 alpha and 5s intraclip for the foch

tbh just anything above 560 pls this 500 alpha 155mm gun is not it

[verbal igloo]

So they are changing it from a e100/Maus/vk72 and vk90 to a "normal heavy" like is7/is4/113 and vz55. Makes totally sense and is not just random

[unique scaffold]

Yeah but T100lt very good too

[foggy hornet]

Bruh

[fringe quest]

But 350 clip goofy

[rare plover]

Mb i didnt meant 640 for the autoloader, i meant 640 for the single shot gun, and the sutoloader could be like old one it hits for 560 and reloads in 7.1

[remote sluice]

yep this 500 alpha autoloading foch is not it. its a worse version of 3 other tanks 💀

[icy linden]

Gerunteed nerf for tvp

[charred heron]

Bet, based on how they “rebalance” tanks they probably will buff the tvp even more

[modern heart]

trying to figure out why more than half the people thumbs down the batchat change...

[rare plover]

Nah the is4 nerf was sht honestly, it will be like a is7 but with less alpha and less mobility, and cant forget, sht armour, the frontal(upper & lower) is paper with 260mm ap pen💀
And 2550hp...💀

[solid sequoia]

because the player base isn’t good at actually realizing what is happening with most of the changes

[unkempt quest]

the community never understood the meaning of balance, the votes mean nothing pretty much

[safe rapids]

It was 2x640 at first and yes it was pretty broke, but in todays meta 2x600 isn’t that bad. I’d prefer it at that

[verbal igloo]

The time when 1280 clips where "normal" good times . @modern heart or maybe people are just tired about auto Loaders getting buffed? Nah cant be

[icy linden]

The wz 113 got buffed in my opinion but it has a lot of downvotes because of 20/10/10 dmg decrease

[modern heart]

honestly i sorta disagree because pretty much all the other bad changes got ratio'd pretty hard

i think people stopped reading after the first part and didn't realize it was just the stock gun that got nerfed

[stone drum]

It's always been à superheavy, doesn't matter matter you do to it, lol.

@solid sequoia it's only going to have 2650 dpm after the changes with sandbags on... lol.

[burnt venture]

https://tenor.com/view/happy-world-literacy-day-happy-world-world-literacy-day-celebrate-gif-18355573

[unkempt quest]

but the stock gun got buffed while the top gun got reworked

[solid sequoia]

It’s being changed to a fast heavy with good dpm and alpha lol

[safe rapids]

I’m at least glad that for the most part I like this round of changes. Some make no sense, especially the 113, but overall I’m happy with what they did for a lot of the French and Chinese vehicles, or at least not mad! Hoping that the European tanks also get this reaction from me, with only one or two duds.

[remote sluice]

yea tbh 580-600 alpha autoloading foch fits well w todays meta.

anything but the 500 alpha. no 155mm gun should do 380 dmg on a low roll 💀

[rare plover]

Imagine that minotauro gets 530 alpha with ap and 5 shells💀(jk)
Or tvp gets 350 alpha and 1.0s intra

[granite pebble]

What in God's name are those absolutely god awful Foch changes that do literally nothing at all to help the tank?

In other news though, W for Amx 30B, Batchat, and 50B and.... Maybe a W for the Amx Mle?.... Sort of.... Not really...

[feral scroll]

Why is WG allergic to fixing the amx50b? Anyone with half a brain realizes it needs either a damage per shot, “iNtRa” clip reload, or armor buff.
Why bother with tiny reload changes and nerfing the armor?

[stray mortar]

WG trying not to anger the community challenge (Impossible)

[stone drum]

If they didn't nerf the alpha, it would be fine.

@rare plover I wasn't talking about foch.

[icy linden]

They failed this challenge with the balance they did with American tanks

[long epoch]

Hull Armor never worked for the 50b the sides are weak as is the turret. The intraclip is fine and the traverse buff is very welcome in my opinion

[remote sluice]

foch rebalance is beyond disappointing. i was hoping for an alpha buff to bring it back into relevancy, but maybe not. its still a worse yoh/mino w the autoloader, and a worse 268 w the single shot

wg please, it has so much potential to be a unique and fun tank

[rare plover]

Thats is what we're talking abt, they should make it:
Single shot gun:640/550 or 545/960
Autoloader:(560/510/700)

[granite pebble]

Agreed, the 50B's changes are pretty good.

[fringe quest]

Idk why even tho it’s getting buffed @icy linden it’s getting worse gun stabilization and dispersion so yea that’s hey I’m mad about it

[feral scroll]

Never worked? You clearly weren’t playing before they nerfed the front hull, it used to be one of the best in the game.
Yeah the SIDE hull was bad, but if you’re not a bad player you could still make it work well.

I understand wanting to make the amx50b a sort of glass cannon, but it’s just not powerful enough to warrant taking all of its armor. It needs some serious hard stat buffs to make relevant, right now it gets danced on by everything

[inland talon]

what the heck m4 mle getting nerf? bruh i paid lots of money for this tank

[rigid moon]

I will say I do kinda like the batchat changes ngl however I kinda feel like what it needed is better accuracy or something. Does anyone else think so? I’m curious because while I definitely enjoy the tank I feel like some shots just don’t go where I aim unless I’m somewhat close up to a tank if y’all get what I’m saying.

[icy linden]

It will be best yolo heavy of 10.3 in my opinion

[remote sluice]

chinese type 71 💀

[long epoch]

The 50b was never supposed to be a frontline heavy due to its long reload and poor armor. The purpose is making trades or just flank. The speed makes this possible. A 50b player should not rely on its armor because it only works when no tracks, turret or side is shown. Even then with a little bit of aim you can cut right through the front. Trading a bit of not that usefull armor for better traverse and dpm is a great addition

Yes i never played the 50b before update 9.2, but as the tank is now is a great tank that deal damage quickly when used right

[feral scroll]

That’s how it works chief, collectors can be nerfed, premiums can’t.

I think it needs some mobility nerfs to make it less flexible, but they shouldn’t ruin the other stats.

@long epoch if it’s not meant to be a front line heavy, then they shouldn’t be ruining its capability to do literally anything.
Not enough armor to front line
Not enough damage to be a good glass cannon
Can’t trade since the alpha damage and intraclip are bad
Basically no reason to play it over T-57

[safe rapids]

I don’t know why people are up in arms over the M4 54. Yeah, I don’t like what they did to it, but I’m excited to see how it plays out as a faster, E5 or Chieftain-esque tank.

[granite pebble]

You have literally no idea what you're talking about and it's pretty obvious if you think the 50B doesn't have enough damage for a heavy tank that goes 50km/h.

[twilit crystal]

That's a discord bug. I still see 2900 nega

[eager owl]

580 dmg the grille omg

[stone drum]

Because of its overuse in competitive play, so rather than nerf it's hp they chose to Nerf it's alpha massively.

[safe rapids]

The fact there are two thousand eight hundred seventy dislikes is incredible in its own right.

[feral scroll]

What good is it’s speed if it has no other capabilities to use it with?
I have over 300 games and 3500 average in it, look me up on blitz stars if you don’t believe me.
I know how to play it, and I see what WG is trying to do, but they’re doing it wrong.
It just doesn’t have any other strong points to work with its speed, so there’s no point playing such a one trick pony when I could play Yoh or T-57, which are both infinitely better relative to all 3 tanks’ respective stats.

Imagine if a cheetah had all of its speed, but dull teeth and no claws? What good is all that speed if you can’t do anything when you get there?

[solid sequoia]

Not really a nerf, just a role change

[inland talon]

then again i havent been using the m4 mle considering some tech tree tank can just wipe it out of the map. the grille they massacared my boy 640 alpha now with 580. mle 460 alpha is not even that high when you cant pen some Td or some heavies with stronger turret. also the m4 mle periscope any heavies can pen that easy like butter.

[long epoch]

Imagine the 50b as a cheeta with a rhino horn that has a 25 second cooldown. Strike once and run, come back after your downtime

[stone drum]

You call 1520 clip alpha with excellent penetration & accuracy "dull claws"?

AMX can bite and when it does it bites hard.

@inland talon AMX m4 is getting 450 alpha.

[granite pebble]

If you have THOSE stats in the tank then I'm confused why you even have the opinion you do considering your statement about those stats literally proves it's damage capabilities are completely and entirely fine. T57 is already getting worse intraclip and interclip, the Yoh is slow with sides that can be HE'd by most tanks and it's only virtue is the fact that it does 900 in 1.7 seconds.

The 50B is a fast heavy tank with an almost 1600 clip potential and high pen and it's mobility is being improved and it's downtime is being shortened. You complain about the damage yet your ability to deal said damage is being improved.

[fringe quest]

Why would I yolo a tank that has barely effective armor 😐 sounds like a 40%er move

[viscid bough]

???

[twilit crystal]

Yeah 50b is getting buffed. The aim time was dreadful. I do like the hull armor but it cancels out

[feral scroll]

The amx50b has a 2.7 second intra clip, that means you have to sit out in the open for about 8 seconds to do that damage.
Do you realize how much damage you can take in that time? Not to mention it doesn’t hold a candle to the T-57 that does less damage per clip, yes, but can do 1200 damage and get into cover in 5 seconds.
Not even compared to the Yoh’s 900 damage in less than 2 seconds.

It’s not always about long term potential, because yes on paper the amx50 is extremely lethal, but in practice it’s relative ping intraclip and lackluster alpha damage combined with its bad armor prevent it from actually being useful.

@granite pebble I got those stats before the big nerf, the one that ruined its gun and armor. I complain about the damage because that’s like going to a homeless man with half a candy bar and saying “I solved world hunger!”

[viscid bough]

I agree. The people asking for 50b to keep armor is like saying the fv4005 should have armor. The whole point is that they’re glass cannons. The users should focus more on map strategy rather than just hoping for a lucky bounce.

[austere citrus]

caro 45 t is better than amx 50 b

[quick lichen]

I miss when blitz had standardized alpha damages for tier x
310
350
400
420
460
640
800
930

Simplicity is not a bad thing in this regard. Adding or subtracting 10-20 alpha is not a necessary change and doesn’t make gameplay any more interesting

[stone drum]

Considering I had zero issues with 3s intraclip, 2.7s is hardly an issue to work with.

The intra-clip is what allows it to have other good characteristics in other areas. These changes are great for 50b.
50b already has way more armour than it should in blitz. It should be under 90mm thick for the turret & 60mm thick on the hull

[long epoch]

If you did that before 9.2 u can just play the 57 heavu. 9.2's purpose was making all tanks uniqe. I dont agree with every tier 10 being reworked again. But the 50b in 9.2 got a fun and good playstyle, especially after the intraclip buff. I suggest u to play it again.

[twilit crystal]

yeah 560 was fine, there really wasn't anything else in that range so it could be added

[feral scroll]

I agree that it doesn’t need great armor, but the thing is that it’s other capabilities don’t match it’s lack of armor.
There’s just no reason to play it over other tier x heavies that out perform the amx50b in too many ways.

@long epoch “unique” shouldn’t mean objectively worse than almost every alternative option.

WG botched it, they forgot that it’s thin armor prevents it from being able to actually make use of its damage potential.

In the end, just saying “muh speed” and “muh clip alpha” just isn’t enough, and it shows in practice.

It wouldn’t be as bad if it could at least trade equally with other heavies, but it can’t do that either.

[long epoch]

I average 3000 dmg all time and 3500 in the last 60 days. You need to play the tank again before saying that wg is doing things wrong. That you dont like the playstyle doesnt mean its a bad tank.

Its a really fun tank to play, and yes the muh muh speed and muh muh clip potential makes the tank.

[twilit crystal]

yeah 50b is fine, its just a brute hp trade

[granite pebble]

Guys... Why is no one talking about the Chinese light losing 400 dpm 💀

[inland talon]

Nobody using them

[solid sequoia]

It’s getting 360 alpha and better pen

[late swan]

Yea now it’s 580,600,500 650, 630, 950,440,330,670,690,680 like what is that

(Also you forgot 560)

[feral scroll]

Really? Not only have I played it, but I haven’t seen anyone have anyone do more than like 3.2k in that thing since they nerfed it.

That being said, things tend to roll differently on other servers, so maybe I need to make an eu account sometime and see if it’s an easier player base to farm.
Not trying to throw shade, but NA does tend to be more competitive.

[granite pebble]

I'm aware, I'm aware it's also still only got 5 degrees of gun depression and mid gun handling.

Considering the fact that mediums will be having a lot more dpm, none the less on par view range, the only light tanks I could see anyone playing after these 10.3 changes are the sheridan and bat chat, oh and the T100, those three lights got better essentially, and the two worst light tanks... Got... Not very much.

It doesn't help that the WZ accelerates like the Vickers but doesn't even have the gun depression to stay versatile.

So... The WZ will at the very least have.... Better pen... It's just going to now be devoured by the fact that everything it worried about before will now become much more dangerous to it.

So no one is still gonna play the WZ.

[long epoch]

I average 3600 in the last 30days and yesterday did 8.6k w 7kills. I have to agree that de eu sucks since it was merged with the ru. Most of the ru players dont know how to play. But this works both ways, so i dont think mskes much of a difference
Sometimes its easy to farm but sometimes you just get steamrolled with less than a minute to do things.
Both ways meaning that u can have a great team and the enemy a bad teams, or you have a bad team and the enemy has a great team. Last battle i played the player on my team with the highest winrate after me was 48%

[feral scroll]

I think they’re trying to make it more of a boom and zoom tank rather than a sit and farm kinda tank.
But yeah it’s def a nerf, that dpm loss is too disproportional imo.

@long epoch wdym both ways? Very few ru players went to NA, and our population of Hispanic players, from what I’ve seen, aren’t quite as bad as ru players.

I need to be clear: it’s not a matter of race, it’s a matter of language barrier hindering learning.

As for working both ways, this is usually true, but generally a higher population of overall bad players makes it easier to farm more, as that was my experience on the ru server a few years ago.

[long epoch]

Same language barrier on the eu w the russians. Even worse the battle chat got removed 😐

[granite pebble]

They should've just left the DPM alone and buffed the alpha still, or buff the alpha up to be 380 with the current reload nerf.

ORRR they do these current changes but buff the terrain resistances, reverse speed, and bump the gun depression up to 7 degrees.

[stone drum]

Still though, less dpm works better with its mechanic tbh.
Considering many mediums are seeing alpha nerfs, WZ will be able to trade well.

[ornate warren]

Excuse me but what are those changes on foch and 50b man…

[granite pebble]

Stb-1 still has a god tier turret, the T-62A is getting better armor, the E-50M which the WZ was never able to touch in the first place is getting better armor, the Patton is getting better armor, the Leo is getting view range and DPM, the batchat now has a 1050 clip, multiple mediums will have tungsten in 10.3... it's just... Not a good look for the WZ.

The main tanks that the WZ is going to be competing with will simply not care about the alpha buff for a plethora of reasons.

[crude plinth]

I saved up gold so long to finally get the AMX M4 thinking they wouldn’t change it cuz it’s a collector and then they do this…

[open hornet]

french changes already out?

[stone drum]

A terrain resistance buff would have been Nice for WZ.

@soft turret inter = intra
The shell reload speed isn't changing.

[tawny surge]

WG you have showed us again that you are able to nerf premium/collectors tanks. Why then you still don’t want to bring balance back to tiers 6/7 and finally do something with smashers and annihilators?

[soft turret]

AMX50B gonna have a 1.7 inter??

[granite pebble]

The AMX changes would've been fine... If they left the tungsten and premium AP alone.

I'ma just... Never touch the AMX because of the fact that it is no longer an interesting tank to literally any degree.

[thorny timber]

inter is total clip,intra is between shots

[solid sequoia]

No, interclip is the whole clip reload, intra clip is the time between shots

[gleaming apex]

kabisote#0 has been warned.

[final warren]

Someone please tell me that I did my math wrong with the wz-132-1. Did they actually nerf it's DPM from 3550 to 3150?? All for 7mm of pen??

They took a light tank that is already struggling and decided to nerf it. What is the role of the tank now? Before it at least had high dpm to try and protect/redeem itself. Now it has absolutely nothing going for it. Compared to other light tanks now it has the worst mobility, arguably the worst gun, and the worst armor.

What were they thinking? It wasn't even performing well, so why did they nerf it?

[crude plinth]

Indeed but I’m kinda f2p (only spent €15 so far) and saving up 22500 or whatever it was takes so much time and now that I finally got it they are gonna nerf it after 2 months bruh this is literally scamming people

[twilit crystal]

its a better gun than the vickers, but vickers gets 10 degrees depression

[stone drum]

Yeah, it's quite sad. Poor thing got axed. It's not even gaining a full 100 dpm & it still keeps the sucky accuracy. Then they nerf the front, but keep the side?? Like what? So confusing. Still better only one tank rather than five get nerfed.

@granite pebble the 30b changes weren't amazing yes, but they where infinitely better than I expected, I mean an accuracy buff!? That's awesome imo. Plus they could reduce mantlet thickness by half & it would still be extremely bouncy. I only wish the 30b recieved abit more top speed(s).

[upbeat sphinx]

At least you should acknowledge that cc 64 has broken armour and Dpm on single shot gun that needs some adjustments.

[granite pebble]

Well the 30B changes could potentially ruin the tank even with the DPM buff.
The only saving grace that tank had was the amazing gun mantlet and now that's going to be nerfed for not even 3500dpm.

Oh and it's losing 50hp too, so... Cool.

[gleaming apex]

1flak#0 has been warned.

[drowsy plaza]

Maybe wait for the balance changes to trickle down to tier 8. It’s not going to happen overnight.

[open hornet]

It's still going to be crazy in hulldown

[jagged crescent]

My 113 got violated 😭

[long epoch]

I really dont understand why they add tungsten to so much tanks

[final warren]

the Vickers has a better gun. After the update it will have more DPM, more pen, more shell velocity, much more gun dep to the WZ's pitiful 5°, and better dispersion.

They killed the WZ-132-1 after it was already on life support. It needed a dpm buff to keep up with the new medium dpm, a gun depression buff, and it needed to have less fires. Instead they massively nerfed the DPM (it's one redeeming factor) and gave it a little bit of pen. The new pen still isn't even average.

Genuinely, I don't think I've ever seen a worse attempt at balancing a vehicle. What made them want to nerf it? It certainly wasn't because it was performing well

[crude plinth]

Depends on how much they’ll nerf the frontal armor and even if it’s a very very small nerf there’s still all the other stuff getting nerfed while I payed for it with wargaming’s promise they don’t change collectors and premiums… literally the definition of a scam

[wraith hornet]

So then which prem T10 tank is still worth getting in your opinion? The Badger and 5A?

[granite pebble]

On the... Bright side? The 5A is literally just getting turned into the 260, for some reason.

I don't get why they didn't just leave the 260 alone and turn the 5A into the IS-7 premium wannabe since that's already what the tank was closest to.

[rare plover]

268/4 still broken, ik less alpha but the armour is still broken.

[stone drum]

Well they turned IS-7 into an AMX m4 mle. 54, lol.

[upbeat sphinx]

That's for sure, but back in February I was told by a dev during the Q&A that the tank was balanced, which is not what stats from last months show.
That's why I made this comment.

[crude plinth]

Almost all of them look fun to play but it’s just the fact they promise it’ll stay like how you bought it and it doesn’t, I grind gold for months to get 1 collector tier X and get screwed cuz they nerf it while they clearly said they won’t as an f2p player that’s very very sad imo
Game developers lying to get money…

[final warren]

What's even crazier is that 90% of people liked that the WZ 132-1 was nerfed. It makes no sense

[orchid grove]

Bruh, WG has a disclaimer on every collector tank saying “xxxx is a collector tank, and it’s stats are subject to balance changes”

[open hornet]

Not really, all the tanks are getting changes, so it will probably still peak in tier 10 tbh

[willow hawk]

Number one reason not to spend money on the game, if you don’t like the risk of balance changes. Too bad I didn’t read the fine print soon enough.

[fringe quest]

I feel you 😞

[stone drum]

It really won't, it's going to be a pretty mid tank after the changes from the looks of it. Its also loosing it's uniqueness, you'll be better off just playing IS-7 or 5a.

[stuck acorn]

Literally all collector vehicles maybe except S conq and Amx M4 received positive changes and people still complain 💀

[remote sluice]

tbh i can see it as somewhat of an indirect buff to the efficiency of the tank’s mechanic.

wz132-1 having 7s reload will mean that every time it loads a shell, it will disappear, since the tank only stays visible for 7s. this will make the tank play the peekaboo style more effectively, shoot the enemy when they least expect it cus ur unspotted.

[crude plinth]

Oh sorry about that. My fault, didn’t know… I can’t really complain if that’s the case lol

[unique scaffold]

---- 🇫🇷balance review 🇫🇷----

• AMX 50B : I'm happy about the gun buff, always good. But I don't think the tank needed it and why the hull Armor (only "strong" part of the tank) should be nerfed. This makes the 50B as like the Fv4005.

• AMX Mle 54 : WG is here again trying to transform this tank into a heavium, as arl44 and tier VII HT. Which isn't what this tank was made for. Bad Bad Bad décision.

• AMX 30B : The average buff is good, it needed it. But why turret Armor decreases? In the hulldown meta ?

• FOCH 155 : WG nerfed the autoloader and now slightly buff it. They decrease shell velocity but replace base ammo with apcr. They made the single shot statistically better and are now nerfing it. Please stop tweaking with the Foch.

• Batchat : it's a complete rework. The 4 shots is now viable option, the 3 shots win clip potential but longer reload, which is fine. However, I liked when the Batchat wasn't a TVP and had less damage but a Gun always ready to fire. The goal of the Batchat is to terminate tanks, not clipping a tank.

[long epoch]

I still feel like it should not be done, but even if they said that this wont be a nerf but a 'rework'

[granite pebble]

My issue is that they're not even trying to keep the core reason people bought some of these tanks.

I didn't buy the 260 for a traditional heavy tank role I bought it because its a heavium.

I didn't buy the Mle for... It being a heavium, I bought it because it was a 480 alpha tungsten slinging heavy tank that had premium AP.

Now it's the biggest heavium in the game with a 2800hp pool that's getting reactive. Cool, now I can be a complete ape and still have 2k HP afterwards, I love when my interesting tanks become boring.

[open hornet]

The you bought the Mle for it having high alpha and tungsten? I bought it because It has crazy armor in hulldown, which you can't even penatrate because you can't see the back hatch.

[twilit crystal]

yeah I think WG still treats m60 like a premium though.. It hasn't gotten any nerfs in 9.1 or 10.3 albiet its buffs are relatively small, @orchid grove sure but at the same time all other tanks recieved atleast 1 stat nerf somewhere

[orchid grove]

Probably because it’s underperforming 😂

[stone drum]

Well to be fair, even though they got slightly Buffed, both Kpz 50t & 121b are about to get powercrept really hard.

@unique scaffold WG created the AMX m4 mle. 54 so ultimately they can décide what it was created for.

[feral scroll]

Part of the problem with these is that wg is heavily disconnected from player feedback, and it doesn’t help that very few of them actually play the game and experience the effects of their changes first hand.

No, it’s not world ending, but it’s arrogant to rely purely on statistics and predictions to make changes.

So many of these changes are blatantly unwanted, and yet it is apparent that many of these unpopular changes will still go through.

Just like removing eu battle chat 💀

I will admit, giving players a chance to react to planned changes with the like and dislike options is a good start… if this were a new problem, and not a problem for the past several years.

[unique scaffold]

It's a AMX M4 45 under steroid. It has the design of a classic heavy. Why should it become a heavium and switch path ? It's just like the relevance of the deathstar after the AT's line

[final warren]

Maybe it was a buff to that specific scenario, but ultimately the DPM nerf is a huge, massive nerf to the tank that negates any small advantage the better peekaboom it gets.

If you want to abuse peekaboom, then simply wait for 7 seconds and then poke again. Peekaboom is not how the tank is supposed to be played. 360 dmg is not enough alpha to be an effective peekaboomer.

Do you think the enemy is just going to forget that you are there? No, they will wait for you to poke again and you will get out traded.

The tank is supposed to use it's camo mechanic to move around the battlefield quicker than other tanks, and then use it's DPM to catch enemies off guard. Once they turn their attention to it, it runs away.

If you wanted to peekaboom, you could simply wait for your camo to reset. The tank now has meh DPM, bad pen, bad mobility, bad armor, bad gun handling. It has nothing going for it

[granite pebble]

Insane hull down armor isn't unique to the Mle, the combination of 480 alpha, tungsten, and premium AP sure was though.

[humble flint]

Brodie why does it need dpm buff it already has a lot of dpm for a light tank. There has to be a difference between two or whats the point of not converting all light tanks to mediums? It now has 360 alpha which is big and the tank has to show itself less which means taking less damage. Again its a light tank not a brawler. It doesnt have to keep up with the mediums its a light tank and has its own thing.

[feral scroll]

I’m gonna have to disagree slightly, every tank had at least some sort of hull down weakness, like turret cheeks or a cupola you can hit, m54 has neither

[stone drum]

It's not a classic heavy, it's the french super heavy.

@feral scroll the weakness is that AMX m4 mle. 54 can barely driver under the arc to triomphe, much less find à hill to hulldown.

[twilit crystal]

yup it should get 400 alpha and maybe another quarter second off reload, let it keep its dpm while getting an effective alpha to use with adaptive

[granite pebble]

S Conq has almost nothing you can do against it except have a super accurate gun with high pen, the IS-7 requires an ungodly amount of pen, IS-4 requires high pen and a whole lot of RNG to be on your side.
E-100 with enhanced armor just has to angle its turret and it's basically immune to anything that isn't a TD running calibrated, god forbid it use any gun depression too, there's also the Kran and 60TP as well.

All of these tanks have insane turrets while not paying the price of being larger than a Maus.

[feral scroll]

IS7 has cheeks you can pen with good heat,
conq can be penned between the mantlet and the spaced armor, also you can pen through the mantlet with good apcr,
E100 is still a heat magnet to heavies and TDs(rip grille)

Can’t do anything against a fully hull down m54 except splash he

[final warren]

Then tell me what it's redeeming factors are. Other light tanks have better dpm, mobility, gun handling, armor, gun dep, etc.

The tank was always a half med half light tank, just like how some mediums are half light half medium, or some heavies are heviums.

Its only redeeming factor was it's dpm. The alpha buff is nice, but not at the cost of it's only advantage compared to other tanks.

So, what do propose the tank should do now? Peek a boom? There are many tanks that do it better. Peek a booming with 5° gun dep isn't very effective

@twilit crystal what? That's a ridiculous thing to say, and I never proposed anything like that. Other high dpm tanks like the Leo and obj 140 are getting DPM buffs, so why shouldn't the WZ? 3,500 dpm was considered great pre balance update. Now 3,500 dpm is just good. 3100 dpm is average.

How can you say that 3100 dpm on a tank that has nothing else going for it is a good thing? I shouldn't even dignify your response with another response

[stone drum]

Honestly the AMX m4 45 with the 105mm gun is more like the PC AMX m4 54 than the blitz AMX m4 54 is, lol.

[zenith steppe]

Dear god what is wargaming doing with autoloaders seriously? Is the aim of the game to yolo and die?

The 50b with it's reduced intraclip is basically a 4005 but with armour and we know how annoying it is to be clipped for half your health.

The batchat now clips for 1050 in 4 seconds, that's just ridiculous. It's old gun allowed it to have a shorter reload clip to support other tanks rather than just a clip and run kinda playstyle, we already have the TVP for that and we don't need another one.

And not only autoloaders what is with the changes to the Chinese light? The poor thing has nothing going for it and now to add further insult to injury they remove the DPM?

I'm no expert but while having only 5 degrees of gun depression it's not going to be easy to utilize it's DPM unlike other meds and lights. With it's poor gun, armour and mobilty I really don't see the point.

[open hornet]

Conq has a hatch you can easily HE for like 200-300 and plus has a weakspot between manlet and the spaced armor IS 7 doesen't even have gun depression to hulldown, e100 is vunerable while angleling the turret, 60TP has 2 hatches, the Kran can barely hulldown because of it's hull being so close to it's turret, and it has hatches, all though you can hide them, but if you do you can't shoot

[twilit crystal]

I dont think it should get 3100 spm lol. It deserves 3500 with 400 alpha

[final warren]

400 alpha with a 5.25 second reload is 4,500 DPM. That's not reasonable.

Unless you mean a quarter second off the post nerf values. If so then I apologize

[queen palm]

Bonus codes where?

[granite pebble]

That's cool and all, but completely disregarding how tall the AMX's hull and side profile is as a genuine weakness is.... Very interesting.

There are positions the Mle cannot take due to it's size alone and none the less the risk of getting obliterated due to that.
None the less, TD's are literally capable of HE'ing the absolutely massive turret sides so you are ESPECIALLY prone to getting completely destroyed by even the slightest crossfire.

[open hornet]

What positions can it not take

[twilit crystal]

Yeah obviously post nerf lol and I meant another .25 nerf for the 400 alpha

[zenith steppe]

I think @twilit crystal means having 3500dpm with 400 alpha. That makes the reload time roughly 6.7 seconds

[final warren]

Then I'm sorry. It seemed like you were trolling.

That's a reasonable change and would actually be a buff to the tank

[stone drum]

Yet again, The 50b is not getting reduced intraclip lol. Batchat is also only doing 1050 in 5.6s since it now has regular 105mm alpha. instead the regular 100mm gun will sport the short reload.

Please actually read the changes before saying random things.

[twilit crystal]

Players are so dumb
How is the wz 132 nerf being upvoted while the bc buff is being downvoted

[willow hawk]

At this point, I’ve lost hope in the game. WG will do what it wants to. Our feedback is just for their entertainment. They think they know more than us, they think they’re better than us. It doesn’t matter how many paragraphs we write. No matter our thought process and reasoning. Ngl Verstappen, Purplet, and Synx are some of the few guys who do extremely well explaining their logical reasoning.

[wooden lynx]

How is a buff to the alpha, and overall pen a nerf?

[zenith steppe]

You're right. I didn't read the changes properly and I apologize for that. I was wrong about the 50b changes.

However, the Batchat still has the ability to dump 1050 in 4 seconds when using the shell reload boost consumable. I just think that promoting this playstyle sort of limits the diversity of autoloaders which the trend nowadays seems to be hit hard and wait.

The Batchat was able to be more active in games when you could use the shorter reload to support other tanks. All I'm saying is I wish WG would stop trying to force autoloaders into a singular playstyle.

[stone drum]

Their really isnt anything wrong with the Batchat receiving full 105mm alpha, I personally think it's nice to see for once. WG also made an option for people who prefer the shorter clip reload with the stock 100mm, which will feature slightly better penetration, clip potential, intraclip & interclip, inexchange for alpha, accuracy, and total clipping time.

[granite pebble]

DPM got nuked, the mobility didn't increase at all

[willow hawk]

I want this back please.

[unique scaffold]

Some tanks like Americans TD don't have any weakspot. There do have hatches, but you need insane penetration to pierce them, or there are just badly located

[wooden lynx]

But you got a choice between high alpha or faster clip reload, giving you a choice of which type of playstyle you want.

[feral scroll]

They’re not reducing the intraclip, they’re reducing the interclip.

-my bad, didn’t read the other messages.

Tbh tho the amx50 could really use an intraclip buff, since right now it’s outclassed so hard by the T57 and yoh

[zenith steppe]

nw. I'm to blame anyways for not reading properly first

[twilit crystal]

the batchat also maintains almost the same dpm with the 105 mm and 3 seconds extra isn't that bad even if you only get 1 or 2 shots off

[teal crystal]

ok they didn't trash that many tanks this time

[willow hawk]

Was worth the wait, huh? 👍

[wooden lynx]

I'm so glad they didn't butcher the BC like the other lights🙏

[granite pebble]

Huh? You were referencing the WZ changes

[twilit crystal]

light summary, t100 gets a half its old dpm back but loses more armor and pen, nerf, wz 132, gets view range buff and alpha buff but neutered by huge dpm nerf., vickers huge alpha nerf in exchange for very slight dpm buff and armor nerf, big nerf overall., sheridan loses cracked view range but aimes faster. Pretty neutral but the view range with alpha was toxic. Batchat meanwhile gets absurd view range, clip potential buff with very slight dpm and pen nerfs. Batchat is such ahuge winner here

[granite pebble]

I'd say the 113 arguably got hit pretty hard with the alpha and gun handling loss it's faster and has better pen but outside of any situation that isn't brawling it's gonna suffer pretty hard

[charred heron]

WG:
Tempts ppl to buy collector tanks.
Proceeds to remove the unique characteristics of those tanks and make them pointless

I will stick to my mk6, thank you. Even if it means it almost never receives buff
Also hope this is a good warning sign for ppl not to buy any tier X collectors

[stable cairn]

Badger got buffed, Concept got buffed, 5A got buffed, 260 got buffed, Chieftain got a tiny buff, should I keep going?

[glossy phoenix]

But I thought the Fochs balancing factor was that it has no turret is slow has garbage armour and no hit points with no gun depression and terrible gun handling?

[charred heron]

???
I said removing the unique characteristics, not buff nor nerf

Buff or nerfing is ok if they are necessary, but making them similar to tech tree tanks or removing what makes them unique makes it pointless to buy them

[stone drum]

Mk.6 can also be nerfed lol, it's not actually a premium tank.

@chilly crane it's an Enriched Tier X tank.

[chilly crane]

So it's a premium
@stone drum

[charred heron]

Huh
Well so far it still has the premium tank status in game (i know this doesn’t prevent WG from killing it), And there’s relatively little changes for mk6

So hopefully not many pointless changes will be added for mk6 in the future

[stable cairn]

I only see this being the case with S.conq and AMX M4, most other collectors just got buffs and insignificant nerfs

And arguably the AMX 30B since its unique aspect was being the most mediocre tank in tier X

Also Chieftain is officially an "enriched tank" or something together with the M60 (even tho it doesnt make ANY extra credits? Chief still effectively a premium tho)

[humble depot]

Because the 132 is getting an overall buff.

[willow hawk]

Generally, enriched tanks have lower profitability compared to premium tanks. And their gold icons are dimmer, with a slight orange/bronze tint

[charred heron]

I would say 260 is in the same case as well (Debatable) , even tho it does get buffed.

And more importantly if they killed 2 collectors tanks this time, they can and they will in the future. Hence don’t buy collector tanks, cuz if you’re buying for their unique playstyle, they can be taken away any moment

[charred heron]

M60 and mk6 are still classified as premiums in game. Maybe WG should change that

[nocturne grove]

Is 4shell magazine balanced on 10tier?

[stable cairn]

If the intra-clip isn't 1.5 seconds then yes

[wicked quest]

is the money maker at tier 10
K wg totally not a premium tank

[willow hawk]

@charred heron you tell me 🤷‍♂️

[charred heron]

I know and I saw that, that’s why I said they should change that and clarify it in game🗿

[teal crystal]

they should give it 215B HE pen

[charred heron]

I would prefer buffing the HE shell velocity, it’s so slow currently, tho that would probably make mk6 too much of a dpm beast.

At least making the hatch HE proof would be nice. But I think mk6 holds up ok even in this state of so called “balance”

[twin egret]

With that you can come up with a plethora of excuses for nerfing tier 8 premiums

[unique scaffold]

Can't wait to use the WZ-132-1 with 300 less DPM fighting a 4k DPM leo or obj 140

[sacred scarab]

What even are these changes lmao. People be smoking zaza. There was quite literally no reason to make the the 132-1 negatively changed in any aspect. The tank barely gets played anyways, but yeah sure. Give it less dpm, it already has no armor or gun depression so might as well make the only thing good about it be the spotting mechanic it gets.

[twilit crystal]

and get set on fire twice and bounce a shot thx to .14 dispersion so i do 720 damage and they kill me, very slight gain @hallow yew but its still a big nerf overall, only good light now will be batchat 25t and maybe sheri still. the other 3 won't have dpm nor a special gun(sheri big gun and bc autoloader)

[hallow yew]

i really like the turret armor nerf, the damage change is cringe tho

[sacred scarab]

Such a shame with these newest changes especially the 5a. Why did they screw over the 5a

[unique scaffold]

Dear WG, You are out of your mind on these changes, The fact you are nerfing tanks that people spend real money on is a joke, I am fully under the idea that it's your fault for doing a trash job balancing them before they come or get buffed in previous iterations. Imagine spending 200 dollars on the AMX M4 and 2 months later find out the tank you bought is completely different even though NOBODY ASKED. Over half of the changes listed have more downvotes than upvotes...but what do you care your just a billion dollar company that doesn't listen to their playerbase. Literally all you had to do was buff some of the underperformers "30B, 5A, Foch 155" and nerf the broken autoloaders. but instead you want to screw everyone over with changes we don't want. All the comments in my videos are just trashing on you and yet you still think these are good moves for the game. in 1 hour I could make better changes than what you listed here. Can't wait for the 300 bucks I spent on the Carro to be put in jeopardy because WG is playing darts with balance changes. I'm disgusted at WG

[twilit crystal]

Down votes and ups don't matter. People are idiots. They all upvote the wz 132 nerf

[solid sequoia]

The fact they are nerfing tanks people spent money on is good. It adds something called balance to the game.

[long epoch]

Yes unless the changes are complete bs

[sacred scarab]

As Droodles said. It baffles me that WG looks at some of these changes and thinks that they’re okay to implement, when they haven’t done any testing whatsoever to the tanks, add and replace consumables and ammo for no specific reason on tanks

[hallow yew]

If only they would nerf all the pay to win tanks in tier 7...

[hollow pollen]

was just about to say that every time i play 7-8 isn’t fun fighting against platooned smashers or annihilators

[stone drum]

It's important to note, Wargaming has clearly, fully disclosed that after purchase any tier 9-10 vehicles that they can be changed at anytime. That is a risk you the buyer excepted and understood before buying the vehicle.

[unique scaffold]

If I spend money on something that WG has "tested" it's not my fault it's "OP" especially when tanks like the Smasher and Annihilator are allowed to exist in the state they have. If I spend 300 dollars on a Carro which is well balanced and then WG just swoops and and ruins it for no reason it's bs. if you don't want overperforming tanks in the game as premiums then getter a better balance team. It's a terrible tactic to screw over your paying customers. Weather or weather not they have the "authority" to nerf them.

[pale oyster]

May I ask why they decided to change every tank? I hope it isn't because they didn't have anything else to do.

[solid sequoia]

You buy the tank fully aware that WG can balance it at any time. You chose to spend your money to get it. And are now complaining whenever WG does something completely within their rights to do.

[nocturne hinge]

Is it worth buying amx 30B back by selling my tier 9 tl 7 heavy.

[neat frigate]

why would you sell the 30B

[sacred scarab]

How are you guys arguing against these changes?? Yall are being ridiculous. These aren’t balancing changes these are straight up nerfs to tanks that aren’t broken in any way whatsoever. The 5A, the AMX MLE, the 132

[long epoch]

That is a question i've been askking myself too. Like there was no reason to change something like the IS7. Some tier 10's are just fine. Idk why they change all of them

[hallow yew]

IS4 change is one of the worst imo, is it known how much the armor is getting nerfed by? Ah wonderful, they nerf the tank to the ground as soon as I buy it. If I want to play a heavium, I would just play Fv215b. Though that tank is also getting nerfed for some reason...

[stone drum]

Roughly ST-I levels, but with like 120-130mm sides.

[unique scaffold]

A: I can complain about whatever I want especially when WG isn't going to do anything to begin with.
B: Just because they can do something doesn't mean they should, WG can nerf the smasher and Anihilator you know why they won't? Because so many 5 year olds bought the tank under the pretense it's op WG won't dare touch it. but yet they are going to then nerf balanced collectors?
C: It's incredibly dumb to nerf any tanks that cost money due to the fact you will lose paying customers.

It doesn't matter what WG writes or what you say. It's a terrible tactic to nerf something when you have failed your job as a company to balance it before profiting off of the tank. That's like Apple making the best phone ever and then after selling all them rolling out a update that bricks your phone

[long epoch]

No, but its estimated that 260mm AP wil cut right through, even at a major angle

[sacred scarab]

Regardless of whether money is spent or not, the balancing of tier 10 is going to crap. Some of these changes are absolutely ridiculous. The fact that you guys clown me just reassures me you guys don’t know how balancing works. We’re complaining because these changes are extremely dumb, and ruin already balanced tanks, and screw over others that needed buffs. Like why was the grille nerfed?

[atomic geode]

I want 20k gold back for my AMX M4 1954 if this change goes through'

[cerulean ice]

the comments also trash on you, what about that 💀

[solid sequoia]

Just because you can complain doesn’t mean you should complain. WG actually doing something about tanks that are clearly overperforming is good for the health of the game as a whole. I will admit, some of these changes shouldn’t go through, most notably the Vickers change. But in general, bringing down the strength of heavy tanks, which have ruled the meta for years, and bringing up the strength of the other classes is good.

[stone drum]

As of yet, the only collector that has been directly nerfed in the announced Changes is the AMX m4 mle. 54 and that is justified Via AMX m4 mle. 54's overuse in the competitive scene.

[elder lodge]

Would be pissed if I spent money on mle before these changes.

[sacred scarab]

You say you stand by WG doing something about overperforming tanks then say the vickers change wasn’t warranted? LOL WHAT that thing was a medium! It had armor, speed, a good gun, literally everything you could want on a tank. This was needed. Most of these changes/nerfs to tanks are on tanks that aren’t overperforming in any way. Heavies whether you like it or not will continue to be good strong tanks. They’re strong and that’s how it should be. I’d rather have heavy tanks over mediums that have 3000 dpm in every game

[unique scaffold]

Coming from a skilled player, heavies have never ruled the meta in fact for average players TD's have the highest WR's followed by mediums like the Patton and STB-1. Sourced from Blitz analysis. Not sure where you got that from. Furthermore heavies have gotten megabuffed this update so that's also wrong. IS-7. E6, Literally all the Germans, Type 71, E5. like huh?

[atomic geode]

Not AMX M4 1954, that tank will be trash in randoms after update

[long epoch]

So we are heading to an heavy hulldown meta like WoT PC?

[solid sequoia]

Currently the highest relative WRs come from TDs and heavies, but TDs are used less due to their lack of flexibility. And yes, as I said, there are some pretty bad changes in this update, but on the whole, it’s better for the state of the game.

@sacred scarab Yes? I said that there were a few unwarranted changes, because there are. That doesn’t mean that every change is bad. And I never said that heavies are going away, it’s just that the power difference between heavies and other classes is going to become smaller.

[unique scaffold]

Yeah..as a skilled player I don't look at the average players on what I would called "influential" no duh a 40%er is going to do better in a heavy than med....? As a skilled player it's def not heavy centered

[potent jay]

Nerfing the AMX M4 after just putting it up for sale is the epitome of dishonesty. The devs should be ashamed of themselves. Absolute crooks.

[sacred scarab]

So you agree with the change that the AMX MLE for some reason needed to be nerfed? You agree that the WZ 132-1 should have 300 less dpm? The 5a should have less armor everywhere and less alpha? Dude what. And your statistics are for the general blitz population as a whole. Not the actual good players lol

[atomic geode]

I am done collecting with money cause of AMX Mle 1954 BS

[stone drum]

Roll the dice, you pay the price.

[solid sequoia]

Using the best players in the game to balance makes no sense. Changes that are good for the best players are not necessarily going to be good for the vast majority of players.

@sacred scarab WG balances based on 2 things generally speaking: a tank’s global WR and it’s comp usage. The M4 54 changes come about due to its usage in comp. The 132 changes actually allow it to play around its mechanic, something that WG would like to see more of. And the 5A is weird, don’t really have an opinion on it yet. I’m not saying I agree with all of the changes, but most of them are good for the game.

[unique scaffold]

First of all, all new tanks are balanced by testers who are the top players in the game....so wrong. Second of all WG did not nerf the AMX due to it's comp usage they didn't even nerf it they are just dumb and wanted to "rebalance" the tank. It gained DPM and mobility while it lost armor and alpha. WG wanted to try something different at the expense of paying customers.

[sacred scarab]

This game doesn’t cater to “the vast majority of players.” Because yk what? The vast majority of players suck and that’s a fact. No competitive game caters towards their general player base, whether it’s siege, rocket league, COD, idc what game it is. If it’s competitive, it’s gonna be balanced around the players that perform well in the tanks since that’s where they get the best data set from regarding how strong/weak tanks are performing.

The 132 does not allow it to play around its mechanic because it barely has the dpm to do anything on the battlefield

[atomic geode]

I am done paying WG's price, they always ruin a good thing. And IF BALANCE is from Comp, where is Minotauro Buff? Where are the buffs for every TD other than Badger? Where are the HARD medium buffs for everything that is not TVP, where is the T-100LT hard nerf with every other LT buffed? AMX M4 1954 was perfectly fine in randoms, but hey lets ruin it for our customers willing to spend 20k+ on it

[stone drum]

Well if enough people complain they may adjust the changes, as we saw with the 9.7 foch changes.

@solid sequoia
VZ-55:

[solid sequoia]

New tanks are tested by top players, and when was the last time a balanced tank came into the game? It’s been a while.

@sacred scarab The game does cater to the vast majority of players. That’s literally how it works. If it didn’t, a vast majority of the player base would leave because the game wouldn’t be fun. And making the 132-1 take longer to reload does allow it to play around its mechanic more as now it actually has time to go unspotted before firing again

[winter dagger]

Honestly I feel like the hole they dug here will just get bigger and bigger

[atomic geode]

Watching Droodles right now lmao... After update, I am only gonna go for tech tree, STB-1, maybe T110e4, but damn, I am done with collecting unless AMX change is rolled back. I got 65k ghold and 240 gold boosters, I will not spend a dime more than I have and can get free

[long epoch]

Well wargaming decided that tech tree tanks cant be overpowerd on release so now they are underpowerd like how does that happen? Look at the vz an wz 132. Wg seems to just ignore everthing that they get told

[sacred scarab]

You do realize you can just hold the shell and wait til you get unspotted to shoot again? I mean what? Taking away dpm just hurts the tank. You can play around the mechanic either way, they just nerfed it for no reason

[unique scaffold]

Im going to leave this converstaion with a couple remarks. First of all the WZ-132-1 is going to be dookie with 300 less DPM yeah sure I can use the "mechanic" yeah real good wording of you have less dpm but here look shiny....The tank is completely outclassed by the Leopard 1 even in mobility and view range. The T-100 has a much better mechanic and gained DPM. The B-C gained aplha and the Sheridan gained aiming time. but yeah let's have the WZ-132-1 have the worse dpm so it can't fight any of the newly buffed meds. Second of all if you don't own the AMX I wouldn't be surpised by how your defending WG here. but hey 300 heat pen on the AMX M4 base sounds real balanced and fun. you can think all you want WG doesn't know how to balance the game. Especially when the STB-1 the top performing medium is getting mega buffed. adios

[potent jay]

The only good thing about the AMX 54 nerf is all the money I'll save by not buying another Tier X poisoned apple ever again

[stone drum]

Wait 300mm base HEAT pen???

@winter dagger it has 310 premium AP currently. Which is equivalent to roughly 330 heat.

[winter dagger]

@stone drum they didn't buff heat pen to offset it so yeah

[ebon lynx]

310*
And I wonder how did WG come with the idea of giving tungsten to the highest alpha medium in t10 in exchange of a bit of horsepower.

[open hornet]

I don't know why y'all are so mad about the amx "nerf", It's getting more DPM and better mobility for losing a bit of armor which is because you actually just cannot do anything against it hull down, and most likely it will stay like that, and getting 20 avg damage decrease, and losing tungsten. -_-

[jagged crown]

We’ll see next week how trash will be the balances changes for the EU tech tree

[atomic geode]

WG purposely ignores feedback for World of Tanks PC (started 2011 - quit mostly by 2017) and World of Warships, I was a ships lover from 2015 til about 2019 when the CV rework happened, still played til 2022 when subs and Battlship Carrier hybrids got released - that game is dead to me. Blitz isnt dead to me, but Collecting Blues is - FFS NERF ANNIHILATOR AND SMASHER! Make tier 6 FUN again!

[sacred scarab]

Perfect comment to all this. The voice of reason

[solid sequoia]

The 132-1 is just going to have a different playstyle compared to other meds/lights, but yeah, let’s shove them all in the same category. The AMX M4 is overperforming as of right now, but a change to it is bad! And I don’t really agree with the changes on the STB tbh 🤷‍♂️

[neat frigate]

i hope tvp has at least 2 s intra clip in the next patch

[charred heron]

The main thing about amx mle is it’s ability to trade with heavies with its relatively higher alpha and thicker armor, while being hold back by its massive side profile.

The “rebalance” turns it into a heavium, why would I use a massive heavium when I can use a mk6 or e6?

While the nerf is still debatable, one thing for sure is that WG is taking away what makes mle 54 unique

[long epoch]

Before 9.2 it was smth like 1.8 or 2 and that was still quite toxic but its still way less tpxic than 1.5

[stone drum]

It's gaining roughly 120dpm, loosing 30 alpha, and will likely loose hull armour.

@solid sequoia actually according to blitzanalysiz.com the AMX m4 mle. 54 isn't overperforming, it's actually statistically almost perfectly balanced.

[atomic geode]

Only reason I got it was Frontal armor - 480 Alpha, and TUNGSTEN SHELLS! Premium AP too

[winter dagger]

Honestly the lightly armored med meta will be leopard at the top, hull down meds stb will be at the top, and heavium style med the wz 121. Most of the other meds are good too but this is my opinion on what meds will be the best in their respective playstyles

[pale oyster]

I'm kindaa waiting for a tvp buff because they've shown that that's in the realm of possibility

[solid sequoia]

For those of you who agree with droodles in that WG should balance based off of the top performing players, here’s the AMX M4 54’s relative WR. Complaining about it being “nerfed” is rather hypocritical since it is overperforming in the 65-75%wr bracket.

@stone drum it’s sitting about 2% higher than the tier 10 heavy tank average in terms of wr right now

[sacred scarab]

Do you secretly work for wargaming? Lmao there’s no way you’re defending them 😭 and nobody agrees with the changes on the stb. I mean you’d be out of your mind to say that it’s a good change. Being able to shoot prammo and only deal 20 less damage per shot is ridiculous. And the amx mle is balanced, you keep saying it’s over performing but it’s really not. Dude you’re making yourself look so incredibly bad rn lol

[potent jay]

Next, they're gonna nerf the Strv K to smithereens, I bet. I mean, it's the scummy thing to do, after all...

[deep saddle]

Guys TVP T50/51 will get nerf?

[stone drum]

@long epoch
It was 2s and wasn't even remotely toxic

[jagged crown]

Probably 1.7 intraclip instead of 1.5

[atomic geode]

Funny when I look at list of TOP TWENTY Tier 10s for 65%ers, AMX M4 1954 is NOT there! I hope TVP only getsa nerf to 2 seconds interclip, it still dies easily, maybe WG will buff it for me if I agree about AMX M4 nerf, I mean changes

[long epoch]

1 sec intra, shell reloadboost, tungsten rounds, bloom after fireing will be buffed respectively. Also the turretarmor will get buffes

[charred heron]

Probably get a intraclip nerf, then get a intraclip shell reload boost, based on what WG said eariler

Not exactly sure but WG can certainly do this

Sorry for confusion

[neat frigate]

what.

[solid sequoia]

You want to know why I’m saying the M4 54 is overperforming? Because it is.

@atomic geode There isn’t enough of a player population for it to make a general bracket, but looking at just the tank itself, you can see how it has way higher relative WR in 65%-75% players.

[wicked quest]

Ah yes one of the best performers shouldn’t get touched right

[winter dagger]

Hopefully it's inter-clip change I don't want them to touch anything else but considering what they've done, I won't be surprised if they buff inter-clip to 1s

[sacred scarab]

There’s already been multiple pictures of graphs from several different people completely disproving this, but believe what you will. I’m tired of arguing over things that won’t get changed, so I will leave this conversation by saying this. And people may or may not agree with me, but I simply don’t care.

The 5.5 update killed the low tiers, this update will be what kills tier 10.

[potent jay]

Not when you sell it out of containers meant to get you addicted to gambling ...

[final warren]

Do you think the 132-1 is doing good right now?

The only answer to that is No, it's not doing good. So then, why do you think it will be better off after getting it's dpm nerfed by 400 dmg? Your argument that it will be more effective at peek a booming is invalid because 360 dmg is not enough to peek a boom effectively, there are many other tanks better suited for peekaboom, the WZ has 5° gun dep making that play style inefficient, and it has bad gun handling.

If you want to reset your camo, just wait 7 seconds. Getting a 30 alpha buff and losing 400 dpm is a huge nerf, especially when you consider the tanks play style.

Have you actually played the tank? It's going to be even worse than it is now

[stone drum]

Average WR is literally an almost useless metric, especially since AMX has an above average playerbase.

[atomic geode]

Overall - NO AMX M4 54 - LOTS of heavies stupid,, 65%er NO AMX in top 20 at ALL you sounding like a shill

[charred heron]

If there’s any feature that WG can come up with for tvp, it’s probably shell reload boost or sth like combat stabilisation, or even spall liner cuz why not lmao

[solid sequoia]

This is the most reputable source the blitz community has for statistics at the moment. It disproves any other graph that may or may not exist.

@final warren the tank is going to be better than it is now. The ability to actually use its dpm is way more impactful than having dpm but never being able to use it.

@stone drum Average wr shows how much a tank wins on average and is pretty useful. If a tank wins more on average than it should, it is overperforming.

@atomic geode I’m not even going to attempt to decipher what you wrote.

[winter dagger]

I swear if it's like 280 or low alpha that will make it a larger version of the BC where BC will have a similar performance but as a LT

[potent jay]

Insted of simply addressing the couple of unbalanced tanks in Tier X, I guess WG just thought: "No. Let's just ruin every tank instead. Especially those people paid for."

[final warren]

Thats almost as bad as the nerf itself imo.

@solid sequoia I can use it's dpm just fine right now, and I certainly don't peek a boom in it. That play style is terrible on the WZ. You're supposed to use the camo mechanic to flank the enemy, use your dpm until they start focusing on you, then run away to another spot.

The ability to use dpm is more important than unusable DPM, but having more alpha and less DPM is going to reduce the effective damage output not raise it.

You've either never played the 132-1 or don't know how to

@sacred scarab Quick question, isn't the WZ losing 400 DPM? Maybe I did my math wrong

[sacred scarab]

And every other graph that you’ve been shown has been from the same site. You’re cherry picking the stats to make yourself sound right. The wz sucks currently, and will suck even more this next update. Losing 300 dpm will make it the worst tier 10 light tank. The wz just has nothing except a cool camo lol. They needed to straight up buff it and instead they screwed it over even more than how it originally was. I have no idea how you think REMOVING dpm helps a tank.

[twilit crystal]

its more like 300 dpm . I think the rebalance is a step in the right direction(reload nerf, alpha buff, but it needs more alpha)

[charred heron]

You might actually be onto sth… lets see what happens next week

@potent jay it’s more like what some ppl said before, WG just trying to randomly adjust the numbers in hopes of striking a balance out of miracle.

[neat frigate]

coz most of them don't have the tank and they're just happy that it doesn't involve them
i did not realize this was written 3 hours ago

[solid sequoia]

I have used the 132-1 before and perform fine in it. It’s just that using its dpm often involves getting close to the enemy, somewhere you don’t want to be. Allowing the camo to reset before shooting again let’s you stay a bit further back, allowing you to be safer.

@sacred scarab I am showing the statistics specifically for the M4 54. These statistics clearly show that it is overperforming.

[stone drum]

Yes the tank has an above average Winrate, but that's irrelevant because it has an above average playerbase

[atomic geode]

Of course you wont respond, you would look even dumber, and on Blitzstars for tier 10 heavies, AMX is behind 7 others including 60TP in Winrate, and in damage it is like 20th. The overall winrate is only 51.2% - in line with EVERY other tier 10 tank really.

[summer mountain]

The foch 155 got the wrong buffs in my opinion
I get that it can't hit the broad side of a Maus but what it desperately needs is an armour buff

I hope the Kravnagn and the Minotauro don't get nerfed too bad because I have the mino and will have the kran very soon

[graceful ravine]

remember when they said change was good and we are not changing for the sake of changing ? that aged like fine wine 😂

[sacred scarab]

I think it’s “only” losing 300, but nevertheless, it’s an absolutely terrible change which hurts the tank to the core

[final warren]

Gotcha. And yeah, higher alpha would make more sense considering the bad gun handling and low gun dep. My main concern is that it's supposed to be a light tank with a dangerous gun, and it won't even have a competitive gun now.

@solid sequoia give me one good reason to play the 132-1 over a Vickers, Leo 1, STB, or obj140. They all have better guns, same/more mobility, more gun depression, and same/better gun handling

[solid sequoia]

I didn’t respond to you because your previous statement made 0 sense. I couldn’t actually understand what you were saying. And sitting behind only 7 tanks is better than the vast majority of tier 10s. Also, 51.2% is not in line with other tier 10s, it’s around 2% higher than the average heavy, a class which is already overperforming as a whole.

[twilit crystal]

also dont forget a med with the same power to weight ratio now also getting adaptive conealment with 250 more dpm and way better armor

[potent jay]

Just everyone please remember these nerfs, the next time they put up a shiny new Tier X "coll...", I mean, "nerfable", up for sale for 25K. ty

[stone drum]

It will feature 3242 dpm if I did the math correctly and thus à 320 dpm nerf.

[atomic geode]

Look at him Malding typing. I think he sucks at fighting hull down heavies - he is just a 45%er who cant handle armor, a tank that only has it frontally at that, and has big hatches. Dumb bot leave this realm, you are wanted in the sandbox

[winter dagger]

You did not have to violate him like so

[nimble zodiac]

I mean, if you really like getting muted 🤷‍♂️

[summer mountain]

I have a 47% and can't get it higher because of brain dead teammates deciding it's a good idea to try out snipe a FVB 183 and think it's a good idea to bull fight an e 100 when they are 1 tap

[charred heron]

That’s why you stick to the good ol mk6, until they ruins it too cuz it’s technically not a premium

[solid sequoia]

Wow, this is something else. There is no reason to attack me with baseless accusations just because I have shown you statistics that are contrary to what you want to believe. Btw my career wr is 53.83%, so yeah I’m a 45%er.

[short isle]

132 is a light Tank😿

[final warren]

Wow. I didn't even see that the 121b got the mechanic too. At this point they may as well just remove the 132-1. There is no point to playing it.

@stone drum thanks man, I just did a simple calculation so that's probably why I got it wrong

[potent jay]

Throwing 25k gold outta window with the AMX will do that to ya... I can relate.

[twilit crystal]

im just so surprised the batchat gets such a big buff

[atomic geode]

U gotta play AROUND teammates - sit in the back a bit if you have to. But I wasn't talking about u, I was talking about sub 45% bot players that cant handle a balanced tank

[stone drum]

You just need to use base values.
double food + rammer cuts 12% off the total reload (or adds 12% to the dpm).

@nimble zodiac it's not meant to be a hulldown tank either. It honestly never should have had an impenetrable turret in the first place.

[winter dagger]

Use the useless ones as meat shields

[nimble zodiac]

I’m actually fine with how they’re changing the mle 54. Now it can focus on hulldown more and actually use gun depression to angle the hull upwards to make it more effective. The tank isn’t meant to brawl on flat ground. The DPM buff is nice, and if a big mistake is made, the reactive armor plus mobility will help you get out of that situation.

$190 in gold I feel well spent, still 😎

@stone drum I’m curious what role you believe it needed to fill, because it sure seems designed to hulldown, hulldown, and also hulldown?

[potent jay]

I'm a fairly new player, 5k'ish battles, but once I got a 5k damage, 4 kill game, and STILL didn't win, I stopped caring about winrate. It's all luck.

[unique scaffold]

yeah luck is why players like myself and fatness exist clearly. The only luck I want is for you to be on the enemy team

[atomic geode]

I am only 3.5k battles in Blitz, have 6 tech tree tier 10s, I have had MANY 5k+ wins and losses - Buuuut, I have 9k battles in WOT PC. Also I avg 54% win right now, and 1630 avg dmg overall -- winrate slowly going up so is avg dmg

[final warren]

Honestly I wonder if they mistyped the reload increase on the WZ 132-1 . That would make much more sense

[mortal falcon]

and this is still reroll matchmaking

[errant anchor]

Sorry doodles you don't compare to hrf

Better luck next time bud

[charred heron]

I still hate that WG nerf amx alpha, like sure maybe nerf its reload but nerfing the alpha just make the 13cm gun pointless (as if the gun handling didn’t hold it back enough)

[potent jay]

What's the guy's name, who keeps getting banned by WG, for being more toxic than Three Mile Island...?

[hallow yew]

probably me ngl

[stone drum]

If you want a hulldown tank you generally want a low-slung profile, a small hull that is poorly armoured, and great gun depression.
AMX just inherently lacks what you want to effectively use a hulldown tank in a variété of scénarios. It's supposed to be something of à French counterpart to the IS-7, featuring extremely thick frontal armour & an excellent cannon, but balanced out by its fragilité, notably wafer-thin sides and low hp pool.

[atomic geode]

Lol he IS GOOD tho - Fatness is just untouchable. They platoon cuz Fatness trust Droodles. @unique scaffold is NOT toxic, I mean the guy he bumped was toxic as hell but droodles ignored him as much as he could

[winter dagger]

Clearly the concept 1b, definition of hulldown, trash everywhere else except for some DPM and maybe side scraping

[nimble zodiac]

I believe this change will allow mle 54 to be more versatile with more shot opportunities and the mobility to make that higher DPM more effective, instead of a really campy hulldown playstyle. The tank can make plays instead of hit people for marginally more damage as it sits there behind a ridge.

@stone drum Maybe for blocking shells primarily hulldown, then yeah. But AMX’s height allows to to take views over more obstacles and make better use of some terrain, while still being able to expose its rather strong upper hull if it really has to work with small cover.

The hull itself is inherently incapable of making sidescraping positions, unless the shoulder plates were buffed hard

@mortal falcon If AMX doesn’t have great turret armor to you, then I think heavies have done more weight-lifting for you than you’re capable of

[unique scaffold]

if that was supposed to mean something it really doesnt. I love when people say that and don't look at stats, Fatness and I average basically the same damage and WR%. If you try to bring up comp you're aleady wrong because pubs and comp are completely different. but as I always say people are deluded in their beliefs

[mortal falcon]

you know what I want in my hulldown tank? gun depression, but more importantly, TURRET ARMOR

Guess what the M4 54 has?

[atomic geode]

It does have terrible sides, and a GIANT turret with weak hatches - that was the important takeaway, also TALL! Opposite of Concept 1B which is a hulldown beast broken OP

[burnt venture]

IDK if you've actually looked at what tanks are on the graph but it's very clear that there is a VERY small pool of players in this data set. There's no way that at a 65%+ level, Grille and 183 are in the top 20 highest relative winrate tanks.

It's pretty clear that there's not enough data on the 65%+ graph to give a good answer. The few tanks which do have enough players are on the graph, while tons of tanks don't have enough data.

Meanwhile, 55-65% wr graph which does have enough data, is literally full of heavy tanks.

[errant anchor]

Sure noodles keep telling yourself that you're just as good it's okay I don't mind you coping bro.

And I'm looking at stats right now so I must be blind but please tell me oh great uwudles where are the 4k averages?

Sorry just having a hard time finding them maybe you can show me instead!!

[charred heron]

Like I said before one of the strengths of amx is the alpha, I don’t need another hulldown heavium. Some ppl bought amx cuz there is no other tanks like it in the tech tree.

If you want to change the boring or maybe toxic playstyle sure, change the other stats, but nerfing alpha and buffing the dpm just makes it even more bland and similar to heavium excepts for its size

[broken kernel]

Id say 20-30% of games are unwinnable, 45% is basically guaranteed win and the rest is up to you to decide the fate of a battle

[potent jay]

Very true. At least it seems that way. I'm in no way a great player, but it still bothers me when I outperform someone with many more battles than me

[unique scaffold]

When people look at all time and think testing stats are relevant....Why not look at his 30D like normal humans or how about his 90D? Last time I checked I have had this account much longer

[mortal falcon]

You grossly misread my statement, I implied the thing's a very strong hulldown tank. (I realized I sounded a bit sharper than I meant to here, not mad or insulting you. Want to make that clear)

@atomic geode Concept 1B is a midmobile because it's got the flexibility of a graham cracker. I will live and die on this hill.

[glossy phoenix]

Dont you think its a good thing that premium/collectors can be touched? AMX M4 gets wrecked this time for no reason yea, but in future your premium tank can become much better than the product you originally bought… it works both ways

[nimble zodiac]

Wouldn’t 60TP have made 54’s alpha hulldown playstyle redundant?
AMX can have things that 60TP doesn’t.

Stop talking about other people’s stats btw, that’s not meant for this channel

@mortal falcon Apologies, I assumed the answer in context would be “neither”, since the general consensus I see here is that they’re nerfing the tank (they’re not)

[atomic geode]

Lots of Droodles hate in this community eh? I dont know if I like or hate him, never had a 1 on 1 conversation. I DO like his videos tho, he is the Quickybaby/Flamu of WOT Blitz - very informative, shows how he likes to play a given tank etc - and he is salty about stupid stuff like AMX changes - which I agree with

[broken kernel]

If you have below 45% i just assume you sabotage your own team

[mortal falcon]

yeah no all g. It was my bad tbh I could have made it clearer, was just replying to that one comment and didnt see general context it could be interpreted in. since by his metrics, the sheridan is a good hulldown tank

@atomic geode People talk stuff about Droodles because of the sharper attitude and because actually good players make fun of some of his takes. This then translates to many mid players thinking he's bad at the game.

[unique scaffold]

Im not sure if you can read, but the 183 and Grille are the worst performing it has both best and worst....maybe just look

@atomic geode to add on to what your saying, I find it very funny that usually the people who try to hate on me and call me bad or whatever are also the same people who struggle to break 50%+ and yet want to compare stats on some of the top players in the server

[errant anchor]

So youre telling me the reason you don't have 4k averages is cause you're not a tester? 😢😢 That's a very sad story dwoodles please tell me more. Definitely doesn't sound like any sort of coping at all, we all know you're the best player in the game noodles top 1 champion!!!

But sadly doodles he also has higher average damage along with basically the same wr with much less tooning past 30 days, I'm really struggling to find out how you're both on the same skill level, was there some mega important doodles special stat that I missed??

[charred heron]

I would say even after the handling nerf Amx still has a more reliable gun than 60tp. Plus the mobility allows amx to have more diverse gameplay than 60tp. Amx might still be worse in terms of holding a position but not necessarily made redundant by 60tp.

[burnt venture]

The graph says "top 20 tanks by relative winrate" bruh

Also the other graphs don't look like this. Literally none of the graphs have negative relative winrate tanks. It's very clear that there's not enough data on most tanks for 65+% wr players

And if mediums are so good, why is the 55-65% wr graph almost ALL heavy tanks? That makes no sense at all then

Heavy tanks are not only for smoothbrain players, but also just perform better for players across the ENTIRE playerbase. It's not just the 40%er that benefits, but also the 65%er

[nimble zodiac]

And this change gives more versatility over what it already has over 60TP

Also, hi Martin, go wild 😂

[sharp saddle]

Lets try to keep it less personal, things like this will just result in insults and toxicity

[atomic geode]

Yeah, I'm not gonna make fun of the skills of anyone that plays well, certainly not when they are considerably better than I am. Seems odd that people do. If you were a guy like me pretending to be good, I would understand. I am upper mid at best so far

[potent jay]

Why insult someone when you can just block him and he's gone for good ...?

[unique scaffold]

Last time I checked having a higher toon rate means you will average less damage, but hey you do? If I were to camp every game and farm off my team until the game is almost a loss and then win because everyone is low sure I guess you can call that skilled, It's also funny that my stats are comparable to one of the top players on the server when I don't even read lineups or pay attention to half the games I play. but at the end of the day it's more fun to just waste your time arguing about blitz stats...

[charred heron]

Except this also takes away the what makes amx stands out in the first place. Trading shots with tanks that doesn’t have a >15cm gun

[merry patrol]

tutel

[stable cairn]

Gentlemen, this is supposed to be tank " balance" dicussion, not a "you suck and I'm good because" discussion

[potent jay]

Now I get all the memes. It was all true

[nimble zodiac]

Eh, outtrading is nice, but it’s not as complex a playstyle, like E100, which trades like no other (especially now since it’ll get 680 alpha)

You can hit an enemy for 450 then not get shot back because you’re just hulldown. If you play it right, you can make one-sided shots against the enemy. The turret armor nerf is around a very small area, which will make it perfect for wiggling the gun mantlet and baiting more shots into it

[broken kernel]

They cannot possibly ruin a already mediocre tank

[hushed fox]

Strangely the Amx changes will make it very similar to the tier 8 Amx and especially the tier 7 Amx.

[charred heron]

Not sure if you see what I typed some time ago but my whole point is amx is as fine as it is, buffing it or nerfing is fine too. But it doesn’t need a new playstyle, if amx in the current position is too strong or toxic nerf it so make it easier to be countered,

But rn WG is changing it into a different tank, aka making it similar to a heavium for some reason

[mortal falcon]

Hello, I would like to point out that this graph titled, "Top 20 Tanks by Relative WR: Player WR at tier 65%+" only lists fourteen total tanks. Synx has been talking about this, demonstrating that this graph is not very representative due to the evidently lacking data present (a top 20 list can't even fill out 20 spots).

You may want to re-read his arguments and then respond.

As an aside, you yourself are performing better in heavies vs. mediums in your 30d statistics. Filtering for tanks with 10+ games, the first medium tank on this list by average damage is the TVP at place #7/14.