tank-balance-discussion

[real bison]

get closer, the 268 works well with its camo, gun dep, and alpha

@neat rain in no way does the 268 need anything, its quite alright

and according to WG, giving the Grille camo would make it toxic

[neat rain]

Bull sh**. The grille line is designed to camp. I’m not saying give it ungodly camo. But give it enough that it doesn’t get spotted from across the map.

[queen geyser]

This is untrue, infact no of the tier X TDs in blitz are designed to camp

[void siren]

Camping is inherently bad - no tier X Tds can capably camp - they're all support tanks

[neat rain]

Ok then. So in some TDs you have bushes placed ideally to take long range shots. However these bushes seem to be utilized by heavies more than TDs

[leaden flare]

then remove the stupid otm dispersion facvtor of grille that makes it a horrible tank to play aggressively

[void siren]

that's because those are for t5-t9 tds, t10 tds suck at camping / sniping
too large to sustain camo values

@leaden flare just stop to use (abuse) your rapid aiming time

[queen geyser]

what you wanna do: Camp in bush for first minutes to get shoots on people who cross etc. then look at map, if you see that one site of the map is a rly close fight, or that you could help out there, go there win the flank and u got new position to snipe at the other flank

U get map controll which u need as a "sniper", u dont want to sit in the same position the entire game and the game shouldnt reward u for that playstyle because its boring and not skilled, meanwhile rotating and support teammates and getting map controll should be rewarded and it gets rewarded

[neat rain]

That’s what I do. Camping all game isn’t good. But it’s a great opener to get free damage. I ain’t a bad player. I firgured the 268 out after getting it fully equipped. It’s got some amazing mobility going for it.

@void siren then give the grille armour like that of droodles meme from years ago. Or at least make it un-HE-able. Spall doesn’t do to much when your enemy has 900 HE alpha

[stoic briar]

i have a question, if we cant have tanks past the O-I exp, what about the i-go, type 91 and 95, they are smaller

[real bison]

simple answer: low tiers

[drifting cape]

Spall does alot for tanks that have it especially grille. Getting blasted for 720 vs 900 makes a huge difference. Without spall grille would be a one clip for tanks like the 50B, Carro, 4005, T57, and Mino. It's cause of spall you're able to be more aggressive now then back then cause you won't get punished as hard as you used to.

[neat rain]

You still either lose a 1/3 of your hp or in the case of clippers. You get taken down to basically a one shot

[drifting cape]

Better than dying

[neat rain]

Spall is probably one of the least cancerous things in blitz. And the easy fix? Shoot normal ammo

[real bison]

yes I sure do love getting punished for attempting to punish a thinly armoured tank for exposing themselves/ playing in an exposed position

[patent helm]

one of the takes of all time

[neat rain]

I find spaced armour more cancerous than spall. Cause tanks that you should be able to nuke will take only splash damage

[unique scaffold]

Hello, I hope TL-7-120 is Improved in the future, the speed makes it unplayable

[humble depot]

Then don’t shoot the areas with spaced armour.

[real bison]

just fire AP then : )

[halcyon matrix]

Sorry but if you think the grille deserves any type of armor you are straight up delusional. It's supposed to be a glass cannon, and spall liner already made it really annoying and not worth it to shoot HE at in half of the tanks that it faces. There used to be a time when it didn't have spall liner, and it was actually good. The problem with the grille now is the gun, the gun is just not good enough anymore to compensate for everything it lacks

[neat rain]

That is what I’m trying to say. Read the rest of the conversations I’ve had

[halcyon matrix]

That's not what you've said in the recent conversation. What you've said that the grille is designed to camp, which is not true for any td. They can all camp, but the most effective way to play them consists of more things than just camping. You also said that spall liner isn't good enough for grille, but it literally is 20% damage reduction. You did also say that it needs an armor buff. Which is very far from true

[humble depot]

You think that Spall Liner isn’t a stupid thing meant to keep stupid players from being punished for stupid behaviour.

He thinks that stupid players should learn not to play in ways that are of ill effect to themselves and their team.

You are not the same.

[stone drum]

Which french line?

@neat rain Camo isn't actually that important when camping, as your generally out of the view range of enemies, and regardless whenever you fire your camo basically seizes to exist.

Camo only really matters for getting into position (close to enemies) undetected.

[neat rain]

I said the armour buff as a joke because someone said “WG thinks if they give the grille camo it’ll be toxic”
@ everyone else. Yes I think spall is dumb. Is it cancerous? No. Is camping good? No.
I say the grille needs camo because more often than not I’m spotted before getting into position or firing.

[long light]

Then remove the spall liner if you want camo

Letting it keep spall and also getting a camo buff would be one of the worst mistakes that wargaming could ever do on their 9 years developing this game

[stone drum]

If you run camo net, that shouldn't be a problem, unless your decided you were going to spot in your grille?

[void siren]

it has amazing spot range, they should spot in the grille!!!!11!

[neat rain]

That I agree with. I would rather camo over spall.

@stone drum with some of the teams I’ve been getting?

[stone drum]

the only td that should be spotting anything is Foch/Foch 155.

Even in frontline tds like Badger, Jageroo, etc you still should not be spotting.

You shouldn't be extending into positions you know literally nothing about with no support (which given badgers mobility, if it's spotting it's unlikely their is any support behind it.

[acoustic estuary]

Badger maybe tho.

[neat rain]

I’m not spotting with my grille. I’ve done a little bit of spotting with my 268. But that is just by rushing a aggressive position to snap a shot off on people crossing

[stone drum]

CDA and Kanonen could honestly both use a gun handling buff. It's ridiculous how Derpy CDA is.

.18 is ridiculously awful for such a fast vehicle.

[teal crystal]

Astron needs a dpm buff, like shave 3 seconds off the reload and make intraclip 2.75S

[stone drum]

So in otherwords you want Bourrasque 2.0?

@teal crystal Lorraine definitely does not need 1.33s intraclip, that would actually hurt the tank as it would cripple the accuracy.

@void siren you say Lorraine doesn't need a buff despite it being paper, with horrendous aimtime, handling, and quite à long intraclip lol. What Lorraine 40t needs is its proper 100mm gun.

[teal crystal]

I mean, no one complains about the Lorraine also Lorraine needs 1.33s intraclip
they don't have armor so being exposed is ez to clap, therefore balanced

[void siren]

lorraine has to suffer through firing 4 shells
both meds deal heavy damage in their clip, and don't need a buff.
like literally the damage of the average heavy clipper

[neat rain]

Buff the IS-3s pike nose. Its literally paper. I've never bounced anything off it.

@teal crystal listen to heavy user. The Lorraine would actually suffer from a 1.33 intraclip.
Yes there's stuff that really needs improved on the Lorraine but making the intraclip faster would only make it worse

[teal crystal]

how would it suffer? the intraclip as it sits right now is 7,5 total seconds to unload 900hp worth of damage, 1.33 Second intraclip would make the burst of 900 on a giant paper tank go to 3.99 Seconds which gives it less time to be exposed as it has legit no armor, all other heavies do 760+ in 6 seconds or less

[granite pebble]

You- it would make it worse? It literally does nothing except GAIN from having such a small intraclip, it literally gains deserved really good burst as well and as a result indirectly buffs the DPM.

What are you smoking?

[real bison]

the L40t is sorta sad when you realise you can drop some damage and be a Bourrasque, which is faster, smaller, has a faster load + unload time

a P.46 is just outright better than the L40t

[tame temple]

My honest opinion: Lorraine is more fun than progetto and bourrasque, it just delivers the dose of dopamine since you have to sweat Abit to make it work but ngl it feels rewarding to do big damage in a tank that requires skill to make it work while avoiding not getting spanked with HE nor cought while reloading.
And that's just my opinion :]

[real bison]

^ I will agree with that though

destroying T8 tourns with 7 L40ts is hilarious beyond any doubt

“see that hulldown shark?”
“yes?”
“I want him gone.”

[uneven surge]

Shark gets rotated

[leaden flare]

t8 tours are scuffed anyway
you just choose random tanks and go brr might aswell take t7s

[unique scaffold]

Smasher is terribly unbalanced..

[neat rain]

It doesn’t have the aiming timing to handle that short of intraclip. Your reticle would still be bloomed massively before the next shot. Other things need buffed. Not the intraclip, not before other things are changed @teal crystal

(Sorry, I’m not very eloquent)

[acoustic estuary]

That’s painful to read.

@orchid grove the intra clip being faster would help brawl against close quarter targets

[orchid grove]

If you want the TL/DR: you would shoot faster than you aim

[granite pebble]

A very easy fix would be making the gun bloom after firing almost non-existent

[runic sinew]

Wargaming should totally give the smasher reticle calibration 👍

[queen geyser]

This only applies for snipping, if you are close combat the intraclip still would be handy even if you arnt fully aimed by the time your next shell is rdy

[frank bone]

And improved gunpowder

[granite pebble]

Like I said, it could just have it's after shot dispersion buffed heavily, the gun should be amazing for how insanely squishy the tank is

[drowsy plaza]

I’m familiar with sniping, but don’t see any point in snipping in Blitz, are you trimming bushes?

[stone drum]

Heavy user is opposed to a Lorraine buff... I said intraclip would be detrimental.

@granite pebble If only intraclip was Buffed it would basically spew its shells out with the accuracy of a T49. If you want a true Lorraine buff, it should be fitted with the deadly and proper 100mm gun that It deserves.

If you can get the intraclip out, Lorraine rewards you equally with its raw firepower.

@teal crystal the 100mm SA47 it was designed and equipped with, The exact same gun as used on Somua, AMX 50's, Batignolles-châtillion, and on AMX AC 46 & 48. The strength of the clip is in its unparalleled raw firepower on a mobile, yet squishy platform.

[azure marten]

It wouldn’t be detrimental since you can wait to aim in, you don’t have to fire immediately after reloading

[void siren]

the lorraine would get shafted with a longer interclip

[teal crystal]

100 mm that heavies use?
I mean we already have a Bourrasque and Astron, but they have smaller profiles and faster intraclip than Lorraine, lorraine is usually 2nd line anyway so it wouldn't suffer much with who ever plays it

[stoic briar]

im done. the ju to stock is too painful

[teal crystal]

you think that's painful?
play AT line stock

[queen geyser]

bro with sniping I dont mean sitting in bush at spawn, I mean ofcourse after u won a flank that ur "sniping" the enemies on the other flank etc. I just mean long range shots in general

and while doing that yes the smoller intraclip wouldnt do anything cause u still need to aim every shot, because you are faster reloaded then aimed in, but like I said it would be still very usefull for close combat

[woven lantern]

They need to Buff carro 45t its too slow for a med

[autumn zodiac]

No it's fine, it's mobile enough and the gun is incredibly strong

[tepid quest]

I think it's okay, for now I see platoons with it and me and my friend still won:)

[twin egret]

What Lorraine needs is the 100mm

I gotta say, Reactive Armour is probably the least useful of the super consumables

[queen geyser]

reactive armor is really strong in tournaments, just look at Caern for example

[stuck acorn]

at tournaments only. In random battles it's borderline useless

[twin egret]

well that's tier 8, i'm talking about tier 10

[stuck acorn]

Tier doesn't matter. Reactive armor is very usefull in tournaments regardless of it. But it works both ways. It's also regardless of tier equally useless on randoms

[twin egret]

it's useless on a few tanks that have it imo

[void siren]

caenarvon:

[stuck acorn]

On tournaments it's usefull on EVERY tank that has it. On randoms it's the other way around

[twin egret]

I said a few, don't interpret it differently please

@stuck acorn Really? every tank

[halcyon matrix]

Most tanks that are played in tournaments are heavies. Heavies have a lot hp and just benefit from it regardless. the only heavies that I say wouldn't benefit from getting it are heavies that are already running double consumables, like 60TP/Vk72k with tungsten, but depending on the purpose they will have in the tournament it'll still be useful.

Reactive armor is just really good as you can tank 1-2 more shells if used correctly. T110E5 is one of the tournament tanks that currently has it and it's used a lot on it.

[main tulip]

Yeah reactive is terrible in randoms, I used to struggle a lot in the 215b until I just got rid of it for a normal adrenaline setup

[dim flame]

nerf the anni, it's broken and removes all the fun from tier 7.

[stone drum]

Yes, give it the single worst credit coefficient in the game.

[unique scaffold]

Pls Nerf the TVP from 4 to 3 shots , its just annoying and removes the fun from T10

[main tulip]

Nah, do that to the 183

[dim flame]

give it t49 levels of credits (-20k at least per win)

[halcyon matrix]

Why would you change the thing about a tank that doesnt influence battle outcomes. Credit coefficient isn't a balancing factor. T49 is a perfect example on why it doesn't matter as it's a tank you don't gain credits in most of the time, but it's still played and enjoyed by a lot of players.

[orchid grove]

You can use credit coefficient as a balancing factor to reduce the number of them in the matchmaker. If you made a tank prohibitively expensive to run, then people would play it less.

I remember back in the day when 183 practically had a negative credit coefficient, there weren’t 3 of them in every battle

[halcyon matrix]

Yeah, but overall that doesn't balance the matches outcome. If there are 3000 or 4000 of them, there will be an average amount on your team and on the opponent. Which wouldn't change whether one team loses or wins more.

It just changes how often you'll be bothered by the tanks. It doesn't make them any weaker. It's not going to change the chance of some random tech tree tank of taking them down.

And credit coëfficiënt is something that'll hurt the wrong players probably. People don't play annihilator for credits. They play it for stats. Not always directly but because they have fun winning a lot, so they'll play it more. There are people who play it for credits as well but i don't see that being the vast majority

And unlike your 183 scenario, now it's much easier to get free premium time for some days, more events and easier to earn credits

[teal crystal]

they messed up the credit economy once they made repairs and ammo free, those two variable costs made terrible players stay in low tiers or a tier which they would grind the credits to cover their mistakes such as rushing or flanking in a heavy that shouldn't be doing that

[dim flame]

also does WG actually read this or just consider this a venting channel (aka they won't care about any of the suggestions)

[teal crystal]

I did make a suggestion for them to buff Tankenstein right before they banned me the first time because a mod was whining about it, I even compared it to a Smasher and my point got across and it finally got a buff after being out for like 3 years

[drowsy plaza]

I would agree with you that now there is little financial penalty to poor play like there used to be - but quite honestly I suspect that many players who averaged 5-700 dmg in tier X back then just bought war chests etc to fund their endeavors. Frankly the credit economy is so out of whack that I decided to blow 1/2B credits putting ranks on my tier X tanks, as for me with all likes ground and all tanks acquired, there isn’t much use to having tons of credits sitting around. There unfortunately is little incentive to encourage players to learn game mechanics and tank characteristics these days.

[drowsy plaza]

I generally consider this channel a three part item. 1) Player input 2) Other Player responses. Between 1-2 you often see large differences. WG has their own balancing criteria, but sometimes will take player opinions (especially if greatly supported by a majority) into consideration. The key aspect I often see here is the benefit of some players being educated that the tank they are often complaining about isn’t nearly as bad as they say, and it’s more of their game play approach to the tank. But as far as stupidly broken tanks that really do need to be nerfed for the health of the game and play balance —> well you can see that those aspect are often ‘overlooked’

[stone drum]

AMX m4 mle. 54 honestly needs a hp nerf, it's absolutely ridiculous.

@nimble zodiac Would be better if every heavy got a flat 200hp nerf with the sole exception of MAUS

Better yet remove improved assembly from heavies.

[nimble zodiac]

Every heavy*

[main tulip]

not Maus, FV215b, and probably a couple others

[rose rune]

What is the deal with chimera phantom. It's to over powered to be a medium

[nimble zodiac]

Just remove sandbag armor and reactive from the game, compensate the heavies that lost HP to get those, and otherwise nerf heavy HP 😎

@rose rune You’re correct, not much we can do, though

[rose rune]

Yall nerfed tanks in the past. So yall can probably do it again. One of the devs

[grand sluice]

Panther m10 should be buffed, it´s armor and spaced armor are pretty poor in comparison to the tech tree panther wich was actually buffed. I´ts absurd having a premium tank without any reliable aspect to fight against tanks of the same/higher tiers.

[stone drum]

I would like to see it get a mobility (60-65kph & 25+ hp/t), weight (52t+), camouflage, and accuracy buff (.3 base). Like a sort of blitz "Aufklärungspanzer"

[rose rune]

All I'm gonna say is ARL V93 is a bit to op

[main tulip]

lol

[teal crystal]

give it the same top gun from the Panther and you're set

[nimble zodiac]

Lol. No.

[rose rune]

For me it is. I've got a bunch of rewards

[stone drum]

Grandpa! It's past your bedtime!.

Btw may want to change username.

@rose rune "SS" unless I misunderstand.

[outer radish]

Is FV4005 good?? should I grind it?

[queen geyser]

Its not the easiest tanks to play but its very rewarding and effective when played correctly, high clipdamage, high dpm, good pen, good consumables but gunhandling kinda sucks without reticle and ur a giant box without armor, avoid sniping and try to catch clueless Tank while standing second line ish

If you are interested in grinding it maybe watch some gameplay at yt

[rose rune]

Why do I need to change my username. Like my discord username?

[dim flame]

I do feel like some tank's armor profiles get weaker with HD; smasher's turret seems more pennable, the 252 U is no longer an unpennable monster, Tiger 2 got the weaker lowerplate, etc. Would that mean that an HD anni would have more pennable weakspots?

[outer radish]

I see... Thanks for answering

[wicked quest]

I find it funny all of these tanks are controversial for exactly being far too noob friendly

[granite pebble]

252U was never an unpennable monster unless it was hiding it's massive lower plate.

[granite pebble]

Also can we PLEASE for the LOVE OF GOD buff the aim time of the Astron Rex, it is borderline a T25/Lorraine tier tank and the DPM does not justify such an insanely awful aim time, especially on a tank that's supposed to be this low DPM long intra accurate platform, yet the absolutely god awful heavy tank level aim time basically blocks you from even existing as such, doesnt help that the mobility makes it feel sluggish for the fact that it's a point and click pen for 95% of the things it faces.

Actually, buff the mobility as well, HEAVILY.
Playing this tank as it stands is borderline griefing your team.

[sonic shell]

I do suggest these tanks that have front mounted turret
have more gun depression tho

[stuck acorn]

Not really, all in game economy was ruined long ago. This is was just yet another change going this direction.

[wicked quest]

No actually the economy changes were done to make the actual bad players (that manage to suck with credits) have a better time existing within the game and to help them build up more with aces being money makers (a questionable decision considering they never get them)

[dim flame]

Before, sides and upper plate was nearly unpennable. Now anything can go through. The lowerplate was always weak but that's beside the point

[nimble zodiac]

Sides were always like this, just more people know where to shoot

[stone drum]

@burnt venture
It appears you were wrong, according to WG the progetto features excellent accuracy & penetration!!

[twin egret]

Lawsuit pending

[teal crystal]

I get aces often, but it is still a fraction of what I would have earned back then, constant 80K credits with/without masteries

[stone drum]

What??? Their description could not possibly be incorrect.
they totally didn't choose the worst possible things to describe it.

[ornate warren]

Uhh 🤓 achtcually its penetration is excellent only against low armored tanks and thats what they meant by thwat and its only accurately inaccurate, so what they say is tecwhnically can be claimed as true 🤓

[drowsy plaza]

Cupolas are thing too…

[drowsy plaza]

It’s a tank that like the Hype 59 never got properly compensated for the loss of Pref MM. before in +/-2 it never saw 9, and got to ROTFStomp tier 5’s and 6’s, now it sees a disproportional amount of tier 8 compared to its actual ability as a tier 6.5 level tank. Better to give it the same gun stats as the Panther, lower mobility and make the sheet steel spaced armor.

[granite pebble]

Super Pershing as well, really any of the old pref mm tanks suffer a bit

[plain wagon]

Well, Object 263 has always been the worst tier 10 tank bruh

[leaden flare]

no it wasnt

[gloomy anchor]

I don't think so

[drowsy plaza]

It did get a pen and DPM buff though, where it really needed a bloom fix but I agree you with you that many of the older Pref MM tanks did get the bone when +/-2 MM ended.

[stone drum]

Even with the spaced armour, it wouldn't be remotely as good as panther, it would make it worse due to normalization from thin spaced armour.

[nimble zodiac]

For one, they need to make the armor model accurate to the real one, which does involve spaced armor

[stone drum]

that would require more extensive remodelling.

[twin egret]

As if that would stop the devs

[teal crystal]

Devs: 99.99% accurate Armor Highlighting, for a solid .99 USD per month!

[stone drum]

.01% of the time: grille 15 completely red

[orchid grove]

We used to have accurate armor highlighting, but there were too many noobs who complained about "bouncing on gray spots", so WG just made anything with any chance of bouncing solid red. Now I actually take a lot of chancy looking shots at red spots because I know I can pen them, but the hitskin says red

[acoustic estuary]

I mean sometimes it’s transparent red. So you have like 50/50 or som like that. But yes the red glowing thingy is sometimes inaccurate 👍

[teal crystal]

lmao

[stone drum]

You actually use it for ap?

[drowsy plaza]

It’s a good guide to tell you who’s using Enhanced Armor

[stone drum]

it's easier just to look at their HP pool though?

[scenic apex]

Some people just don’t buy equipment so you wouldn’t know if they do or don’t have enhanced armor

[undone estuary]

The tortoise pisses me off it’s that bad in current meta

[void siren]

The entire line pisses me off

[plain wagon]

Tortoise is slow and it has a okayish armor to withstand some shots from tier 8. Everyone love to yolo and roam free, not move slowly lmao. You gotta cope with its disadvantage and finds the best way to make this one a beast shredding tanks/

[undone estuary]

Ik how to use the tank, the issue is the fact that tier 8s can pen it frontally at all, in a hull down meta it’s useless because the left side of the tank cheek is week and the other side has a hatch the size of Lebrons forhead

[plain wagon]

Making Tortoise more armored would be nice but how much exactly?

[stone drum]

I would say the bloom is a bigger issue...

[teal crystal]

AT 15 was the worst tank in the line before it got its dpm buffed

[sonic shell]

about 300 mm thick on paper, it deserves more armour for real

[plain wagon]

You gonna make it a T95 worse clone

[sonic shell]

btw pretty disappointed about maus armour profile, cheeks doesn't have enough armour to withstand gold ammo even when angled

[twin egret]

I wonder what ever happened to the planned rework of the armour highlighting. The one where the armour highlighting for AP/APCR looked like the HE's one, except that the yellow was ricochet areas

[main tulip]

Tortoise should just get better handling and accuracy

[stuck acorn]

Just remove the armor highlighting all together.

Problem solved 🙂

I mean it could stay in tutorial, training rooms and fun modes (except realistic ofc), but it shouldn't be present in random battles

[twin egret]

Imo it should stay since it is a staple of WoTb. Tanks nowadays aren't exposing their weakspots or have ones too small to reliably hit or are plain troll, forcing the player to switch to other spots. These spots aren't generally known either, nor do they show up unless the enemy tank angles or is tilted in a certain way

[real bison]

oh wow i wonder why tanks in blitz have small weakspots or troll ones

defo isnt the armour highlighting which literally shows where to shoot so even the least skilled player can tell where to shoot just by feathering around (except from through bushes)

[stone drum]

Honestly reticle Indication makes it easier.

[keen bolt]

I can't purchase anything from the wot blitz store. the microsoft blue window pops up and intantly dissapears unable to read any errors if there are any. you'd think i could figure this out even used to run my own computer business. Ive reinstalled blitz, gone back to earlier restore point win 10, and put in 3 different payment options and nothing fixes it. ive set up payment in both microsoft play and wot blitz settings...really frustrated about thjis because i even dnld blitz on android tablet but no options for gold even show up for an option ,,,,just boosters etc. what is going on here. someone please help

[granite pebble]

Reticle indicator should have been what they stayed with tbh

[stone drum]

It's honestly better for new players, it's more simple & reliable and removes the need for half of tanks to dissappear in sniper mode.

[granite pebble]

That and they could comfortably change armor layouts if they did that too, it's not like PC does just fine or anything.

[stone drum]

Their are alot of superior tools they could also use to assist player, like armour profile models available in-game, and shot/penetration results vs tank so you could analyse how you did.

[azure marten]

It’s not like half the tanks in pc wot have no weak spots or anything

[unique scaffold]

More armor , but higher reload

[main tulip]

Off the top of my head, quite a few tanks actually have more weakspots on PC. Tiger II lower plate, Minotauro lower plate, 268v4 front. The latter 2 being some of the most toxic designs in blitz

[void siren]

the entire front of the keiler, the entire front of the lowe...

[naive zephyr]

When Sweden are gonna get their own national crew voice?

[azure marten]

But there’s no armour highlighting there

[main tulip]

That's exactly the point, removal of armor highlighting can lead to the implementation of more fair armor profiles.

[acoustic estuary]

They won’t do it though 🤷‍♂️

The least they could do is maybe reduce a bit the brightness but eh.

[azure marten]

Although a lot of them aren’t fair at all; at least in blitz there are only a few tanks that are almost fully red from the front

[void siren]

Blitz highlighting is fine
Without it, we’d eventually get people complaining about prammo being balanced
Pc has the bz-176, what are talking about?

[azure marten]

I could find a lot of examples on PC with OP armour profiles...specifically high tier premiums like Chrysler K and object 252u

[void siren]

Pc has abilities in the game, and cancerous invincible things like the bz-176

[fading crescent]

#no-thrusters-no-fun

[winged barn]

Uhhhh
Pc entirely revolves around loading and spamming gold in heavies. You gotta load gold for weakspots

The e5 gets completely trashed by sconq and chief in pc. Pointing out a tank that is not meta specifically because of what you are referencing does not help your argument.
The renegade is a purely firepower focused heavy. You cannot take hits with it. The only reason why people like it is because the gun is good, and gold spamming 10s will autopen any tier 8. Making armor meaningless

Pc is far worse when it comes to weakspots. Lower plates that are slivers, tiny turrets (that blitz recenty took a liking to) gold needed to even consider penetrating hatches, and your tiger 2 armor arguement? Look at the type 5 line

Hull down immortality with rediculous mobility is another thing that pc has taken a liking to.

Pc will give tier 7s and below random weakpoint commonly. Everything above that is rare.

They... dont... make... tanks... like... the... blitz... minotauro...

[main tulip]

PC are more willing to give tanks cupolas and random weakspots, that's all there is to it. They don't make tanks like the blitz Minotauro over there. Again, I'm not saying PC is a more balanced game, so quit bringing up new examples of Broken PC tanks.

PC has lots of tanks with bad design philosophy, but they usually don't make tanks with specifically the bad design of the blitz Tiger II, which comes down to the armor highlighting. Just face it, it's the main reason why blitz panders more and more towards low skill players these days.

@void siren thats literally the point, lol. And the PC minotauro has a weaker lower plate

The point is that a tank having impenetrable parts coupled with (very) weak spots is better design than having the entire front of the tank be strong against regular, but butter to prammo. I'm not countering myself, it's heavy user who still has no clue what we're even talking about.

[void siren]

The blitz minotauro has weakspots 💀
The Tiger ii is grey when you prammo 💀

[winged barn]

What? The point? The hulldown immortality of the pc one vs the blitz one having weakspots? You are countering yourself

Arty is not even good. Its just annoying
Thats the only counter. annoyance

[stone drum]

Hulldown immortality???
lol, pc has plenty of toxic tank varieties to counter that.

[plain wagon]

I think people want Wot blitz to be another wot PC at this point if everyone try to discuss things about Wot pc and compare.

[main tulip]

Nah, PC is awful, but they usually take the right approach and just flop hard in the execution. Unlike the blitz team, who nerfs tanks like the AMX 50 120 for absolutely no reason.

You really just missed the point yet again, lmaooo

When was the last time that PC nerfed a tank that 100% did not need one?

I literally acknowledged PC was horrible in my first sentence, I don't need to be reminded that the BZ exists. Read and process the actual argument

[void siren]

Pc has horrible premiums, half the tanks lack a upper front plate, he was nerfed into oblivion, and a 860 alpha heavy tank prowls tier 8 with 320mm average armor

Uhhh they just don’t nerf tanks and just let them be creeped to death

Basically pc is a horrible place to be

[long light]

I thought the FV4201 Chieftain was one of the most toxic tanks in the game? Besides artillery

And if im not mistaken its a premium tank

[stone drum]

AMX-65t. When AMX m4 mle. 54 was abit too strong, so they nerfed it even though it was the worst performing tier 8.

[main tulip]

Funny how it's also a French tank...

[teal crystal]

when will french get a super heavy and medium line?

[neat rain]

Did the French make any super heavies that actually have armour?
And the French meds are premiums and collectors. (AMX 30 1er Prot. And the AMX 30B)

[sonic shell]

yes but none of em have armour(apart from A.P AmX 30

[unique scaffold]

Give Chieftain mk.6 170 hesh pen

[ornate warren]

better fv215b? No.

[stuck acorn]

how about no?

[unique scaffold]

Was a jk

[clear shuttle]

i feel like anyone who mentions anything along the lines of “give chieftain/S.conq 170mm HE pen” are serious and not joking

[bronze leaf]

Yes, super conqueror should have FV 215b gun

[hazy marten]

dont do that to sheridan please

[drifting cape]

Would make sense but then 215B will essentially disappear from the game

[dim ibex]

now i wanna know what germans are getting changes and what?

[delicate folio]

https://tenor.com/view/everything-is-fine-itsfine-burning-flame-my-life-going-so-far-gif-5182223

[delicate folio]

Will share next Thursday

[river bison]

It already has slow dpm and slow speed, they are just making it a worse tank

[delicate folio]

why do u thinks so?

[orchid grove]

bruh what are these nonsense balance changes

[sturdy marlin]

T57 heavy's interclip increase is a bit excessive

[thorny quartz]

why ruin all solide tanks now with this changes ? bye bye E5 and T57 😱

[real bison]

wg: has a team of supertesters
also wg: wont ask those supertesters to test things

[turbid ice]

I know right, I can’t wait for Synx to read what he will say about this

[sullen copper]

Bruh. Those changes are SUCK. What the hell are they doing?

[delicate folio]

Guys, if you don't like something, it would be nice if you write what exactly you don't like

[delicate folio]

But dpm will be better after the changes

[unique scaffold]

Tvp still doesn't get nerf crazy tbh, L I didn't read that part

[slender void]

We don't like the changes. there is up/downvote button. What is not clear?

[oak epoch]

They really making the T57 a 3 shell 50b

[sage bridge]

Since when tvp is American tank

[mental haven]

@delicate folio There hasn't been a comprehensive balance update to tier 8 in years, what are you waiting for? Why haven't 53TP and SMV 64 been nerfed yet?

[gloomy anchor]

Will there be others nations tanks rebalanced ? (Others than USA and Germany)

[delicate folio]

T57 is too strong right now, need to balance it according its stats

[latent ermine]

yes, nerf the t57 heavy, well deserved to get nerfed

[unique scaffold]

why nerf dpm from concept? if this nerf will be like -500 dpm even e5 will be better from it

[delicate folio]

E5 will be better in the game for sure, you will see
T57 is very strong for a long time, need to fix it a little bit (it's one of the most popular and strong tank rn)

[storm wing]

If I'm reading this right then T57 intraclip is going to be 5.38s intraclip?

[sweet skiff]

why buff the concept 1b??? it’s already really good

[twilit crystal]

Sheridan losing view range is good though. Will another light tank get 280

[weak haven]

@delicate folio is sheridan receiving more view range or getting some reduced? i dont have the raw stats in my head🥲

[delicate folio]

The opinion of the supertest is very important for us, but for other tasks

[unkempt quest]

intraclip =/= interclip
intraclip is the shell reload
interclip is the clip reload

[dim ibex]

is it at least buff or nerf to germans?

[delicate folio]

We will announce all the changes step by step

[delicate folio]

This answer is not useful for our work. To understand where we are going, we need to receive arguments that we can apply

[surreal crypt]

T57 heavy isnt stong it has no armor only good thing it has is gun and mobility if u wanna change it make reload of clip 21 secs

[thorny quartz]

i not agree that is very strong tank ( look his armour and reload for 3 shells ) , if you wish to nerf something that is Super Conquer not T57 . and why removing Reactive armour on E5 lol that was keep him in turneys ? btw Hello Tolyan , hugs 🫂

[delicate folio]

it's not a nerf, it's up (reduced reload cooldown)

[maiden ridge]

toylan, do you think e5 will become meta in tourneys?

[sturdy marlin]

T57's intra clip should go from 2.5s to 3.5s

[unique scaffold]

Is Sherdian finna getting nerfed?

[orchid grove]

It doesn't make sense to nerf the DPM on the T57. The issue is that it trades too well because the armor profile is so random. The armor should've been nerfed if anything. Or remove the intraclip boost consumable.

A lot of these balance changes are just totally random, like someone just spun a wheel and picked random stats to change.

[true pond]

i dont see t57 being that strong it is somewhat easy to deal with them in my opinion

[paper shell]

E5 and C1B incomprehensible, because both tanks are currently not really Meta and now they are getting worse overall?
Both dead tanks then, thank you...🫠

E5 and C1B are atm perfect balanced Tanks
I hate the update already, because we have more and more the P2W Meta then……

[delicate folio]

It will not be a real huge nerf, something becomes better, something a liiiiitle bit worse (just a nuance)

[shy schooner]

bro this USA tanks

[delicate folio]

Will see, i will continue to play it for sure =))) @sage bridge share your opinion

[unkempt quest]

i approve of these changes, but i'm curious why exchange the E5's reactive armor for reload time? it's a very interesting change that will have a big impact on the competitive scene, seeing as it was widely used for its reactive armor

also is every nation getting touched or are some staying untouched?

you people need to learn that reduced reload time means faster reload time, meaning buff. and the exact amount it's changed by isn't even mentioned, so for all we know they could be minuscule changes

[remote oriole]

I think the E5 will be more interesting. Though I dislike that it will be even closer to becoming a better medium. I would appreciate if mediums remained somewhat distinct from heavies, and if heavies would be universally nerfed to even the playing field

[upbeat sphinx]

E6 getting combat stabilization mechanic is the most random thing ever conceived

[leaden flare]

alright why the rather high pen change for the patton when heavys that already have a lot of pen get way less pen reduction
i mean i havent seen how much the armor gets buffed but thats gonna hurt quite a bit id assume

[strong widget]

Why did you nerf Sheridan? It's already bad enough with the derp of the gun and now the range is only 260m? It's a light tank. i will probably get sniped before even spoting a tank

[unborn sparrow]

Man the tank change list is badly written. Max speed increased/decreased? In which direction? Reverse speed is affected a lot more than forward speed. And really I’d love to know how much a tank is increasing in hitpoints by or what the old values were for the numbers given

[proper wedge]

T110e4 changes are trash

[latent ermine]

i hope tvp will get nerfed

[slender void]

What about the reverse speed and shell speed nerfs? Why was this tank sold only days before this announcement? Why are the nerf numbers not specified, so WE can decide if it is significant or not

[delicate folio]

Can't say it's a nerf, just changes

[charred comet]

because we have more and more the P2W Meta then
How have you come to this conclusion? 🤔

[sage bridge]

It will be more useful in tournaments imo cuz with good turret armour and improved dpm it can do better against current meta tanks, but without reactive armour the role of this tank might be changed a bit

[gloomy anchor]

I hope that the tanks I have will not be nerfed 😨 (Kran, STB-1, 215b and soon obj.263)

@turbid ice idk I don't have it atm

[azure marten]

Why is t57 getting 5.38 second inter clip reload

[turbid ice]

263 needs a buff more than a nerf

[delicate folio]

And, of course, remember the wisdom: you will be able to appreciate the real gameplay after real games. We share with you in advance because we love you, we want you to know about updates And watch your reaction ofc

But really only practice will show you the real impact of change 🕵🏼

[elder lodge]

buff 263

[hazy marten]

i wonder what my beloved leo and e50m gets 🤔

[patent vapor]

Am i correct in assuming this is a typo? Increasing the intra-clip by 2.88s means the t57 will have a 5.1s intraclip between its shots? Is this meant to say the intraclip will be increased TO 2.88?

@rare sparrow #coming-soon

[surreal crypt]

You guys are gonna nerf like 60% of my tier 10s i own and i only have like 25 💀

[paper shell]

Look the CW Meta.
Atm we having mostly Strv, Obj777, S.Conq and MLE… E5 atm nice for baiting for pushing first, but after the update not more. Reactive amor atm is important by E5. If E5 is really to be improved sensibly, then rather return Engineboost again or reload less now, but not removed Reactive amor pls, that’s make the Tank nice and very useful. Amor is strong enough and good enough for a good player

[lost frost]

Is the t57 heavies dpm gonna be worse?

[frank bone]

What about nerfing tvp wg?

[sullen copper]

Leave T57 Heavy and C1B as they are.
Those changes seem completely random.
I understand the fact you guys are trying to "shake" the tier X meta to get new stuff into the tourneys. But the way how the developer team is doing currently makes no sense.
Not everything mean statistics. Developers simply refuse to understand it. C1B is losing it's parameters and becomes slightly worse just to gain a mechanics that won't save it. Because it is a hulldown tank. The amount of times you need that mechanics won't be a lot.
Or T57. Again. Developers work with the "stats" only and refuse to see why T57 has become stronger recently. Not only it got a buff to it's firepower with the consumbale, but also got a "dumb" type of a turret armor. I don't say the armor profile of T57 is strong. I say it is completely dumb design and extremely trollish. If you want to nerf it, just remove that consumable. Simple as that.
Also, the fact E6 is getting Combat Stabilization mechanic is one of the most "Huh? What?" design decisions I've ever seen. It seems totally random and I really can't see the exact reason behind it. As if like it's gun was inaccurate anyway.
Developers want to "shake" the meta of tier X but they simply decrease the amount of "uniqueness" of tanks. Such as E4. They literally turned it into a heavy tank with 10.0

[humble depot]

So for all of you who were wanting the E5 to get better DPM…

Enjoy lmao

[charred comet]

why exchange the E5's reactive armor for reload time?
To change the E5's battle role, to make it less universal, but more specialized in playing hull-down :)
also is every nation getting touched or are some staying untouched?
Every nation We'll share details on the other ones gradually

[grizzled lake]

The TVP better get nerfed it really needs one

[delicate folio]

Selling and rebalance are not connected. And in tech parameters we're not showing these number anyway
Changes will be only in the end of September, so you have a lot of time to play a tank with current numbers

And it still will be good in 10.3

[charred comet]

It's not an American tank, follow our news :)

[unique scaffold]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[delicate folio]

https://tenor.com/view/mystery-gif-6112498

[unique scaffold]

I can assure that everyone here can agree that C1B balancing absolutely makes no sense just for atrocious mechanic that barely even useful

[leaden flare]

remove reti from leo and give it more alpha 😂

[unique scaffold]

TX changes… again..!

[delicate folio]

Closer to the update we will share longread in the news (september)

[gloomy anchor]

Remove super consumables from Chimera 💀

[paper shell]

I think if you give Strv 1.5s more reload or take the motor boost, then the E5 as announced will do very well and the role well, but Strv and Super Conq are still superior.

In general, I would do it that way:
E5 no changes, just better dpm.
Strv less dpm oder less mobility.
C1B no changes.
T57 no changes, it’s a good Tank.

Strv dominates everything right now, even if only the one is deteriorated, it will help many tanks like the E5 a lot and we would have a different meta.

[elder lodge]

when can we see next changes

[proper wedge]

@elder lodgein coming soon

[charred comet]

It's I N T E R -, not intra-

[delicate folio]

It is a plan, the gameplay will be changed a little bit. But actually the tank will be more effective with this turret gaming strategy (you will see)

[safe rapids]

Offering my 2 cents:
The changes suck and are totally not needed. Absolutely disgusting 🤮

[thorny quartz]

10.03 and where is 10.02 update , what is there happening ?

[limber vortex]

So, what makes the E5 different from any other tier 10 hull down tank now? It’s like you want to remove all individuality that the tank had which is depressing

[delicate folio]

next Thursday German tanks

#coming-soon message

[sage bridge]

It will have old good dpm, and the gun overall is one of the best on T10 heavies

[twilit crystal]

Combat stablization is also useless if the reverse speed is greater than 15

[delicate folio]

we're only sharing future tanks rebalance

for 10.2 we will share coming soon in August

[ancient surge]

they will change the inter because its just 18,8s to do 1.2k damage? i understand in that way. Some1 say if i am wrong

[stiff bramble]

Bruh what do you want to nerf in the kran 💀

[patent vapor]

General thoughts of the changes:

• E3: Changes seem OK. It was already strong just sitting hulldown so it seems fine to remove reticle cali, but the gun isnt reliable. That said, can't tell how much it'll change the tank other than the fact that you'll be hitting 1-2 shots less per game without reticle cali but we'll see
• E4: Didn't need the shell changes. Leave it as AP/APCR/HE. The dmg per shot change seems fine since it's quite strong now
• Concept 1B: .... just why... it doesn't need any more DPM than it already has and it'll be even more of a pain for mt's to fight it now. Also the emergency track mechanic??? Wasn't that a special feature only for the Yoh tanks?
• E5: I'm am E5 simp so this is very biased BUT I like these changes. I'm just hoping they don't completely destroy its hull armour. It's basically going back to it's old state now so I'm happy.
• T57: Just don't touch it PLEASE 🙏 . The tank is very balanced as it is and it's playstyle is already unique from the 50b and Kranvagn. It's perfectly balanced
• M60: Needed the speed buff, good change
• M48: Defo needed these changes bcs its outplayed by the STB1 in most cases and hopefully this gives it a chance to compete
• Sheridan: Call me crazy but doesn't it already have a really good gun as it is? I don't know if we want a 152mm gun with 560 alpha being that accurate BUT the t100LT and vickers exist so I don't really mind. Need to play to see how much better it becomes
  -__ T95E6__: I'm happy with the E6 changes as well but guys at this point you might as well reclassify it as a T10 medium tank. It won't resemble any heavy tank playstyle after these changes honestly. No complaints though

I hope you guys read this feedback. Just my general first impressions, feel free to question my opinions 🙂 @delicate folio @charred comet

[delicate folio]

This feature is added for special cases that will make the gameplay different in tense moments, and not for normal gameplay

[gloomy anchor]

Idk
But we never know what can happen

[slender void]

This does not answer my questions for the Concept 1B nerfs:
#1 How are reducing the shell velocity and reverse speed not nerfs?
#2 Why are no specifics given, so WE can decide ourselves if this is a nerf or not?
#3 Why was this tank sold for 8k more gold, than the Chieftain right before the nerfs were announced?
#4 Why should I buy anything else from Wargaming, if I am going to get punished for it?

Yes, you are connected with sales, even if you don't like it. If you don't sell, there is no income. If there is no income, there is no salary. Why would someone buy a tank again from you if it is nefred in the next patch? Regarding beliefs and trusts, that it will be good: How can I trust a company that sells me an expensive product, and then nerfs it a few days after the fact? How will I be encouraged to spend money here and not on somewhere else?

[spiral locust]

Im reading this changes and im confuesd as fu ck i dont know what to think
Few things are random af
Few things re good
But imo it isnt good
Im scared what ll do with the rest nations
I understand u want to change meta etc. But still im confuesed

[verbal igloo]

I just want my 62a back 🙏

[limber vortex]

Ok, so it’s like a 215b then or a 113 or a C1B or a type 71 or a chieftain. The only thing that will separate it now (other than the fact that the DPM is still worse than most of those tanks mentioned) is that the gun is slightly more accurate after aiming in while any hull movement is going to still cause more bloom than chieftain/215b or type 71.

And to get to this point, you lose your “get out of jail free card” of reactive armor

[flint cove]

they reduced the reload time not increase it tho

[unique scaffold]

Imo concept changes are unneccesary, right now it isnt broken and works well, and 57 only needed the armor rework to make it more similar to the e5 on the hull and turret, the gun is fine as it is due to the troll gun handling
Imo m48 changes are also not neccesary as the tank is already worse than the m60

[leaden ember]

Dude why did they make the E5 hull weaker?? And my biggest concern is which part will B weak? @delicate folio please specify which part of the hull will be weak exactly??

[unreal anvil]

man i hope they don't balance tanks based on player stats

[delicate folio]

Thank you for sharing and detailing your opinion, u're cool! ❤️ My colleague will answer for some of your points now

[rare sparrow]

I still cant find the changes lol all I see is the post with "we've decided to start sharing some details of upcoming balance changes in Update 10.3. This week, let's start with American tanks @here " but i cant click on here to see it.. its unclickable...

[ancient rampart]

#coming-soon

[stone drum]

Lol, American tanks just got dropped kicked in the face.

[still talon]

i know my opinion will be unpopular but in my view, the sheridan is one of the worst light tanks currently in the game, it may have more view range but worse camo that compensates for it. for me the tank died when it's speed was nerfed, back when it had its atgm i found those changes good, but i think it should get a buff in some other points when getting a view range nerf (mostly because t-100 lt and the vickers troll armour that in some cases is better than that of some mediums)

[paper shell]

I understand ahead you want to go out and it also makes a bit of sense, but please read through this.

E5 in year 2019-2020 was a great Allrounder because you had nice mobility with the engine boost, worked DPM, good gun handling and you had reactive amor for baiting tactics or pushing. Everything is fine, I know a lot of CW Player they loves the E5,IS4 and Kran meta.

Currently it is like this:
Mobility okay, dpm ok, Gunhandling great, and you have Reactive amor also for bait tactics or pushing. But all this can also be a Strv, Obj777 or Super Conq.

What can you do now with one hand?
Give E5 old dpm back (that’s your plan, that’s great 👍 (btw I love u for that)), but not removed the reactive amor. That you took the engine boost was enough, but reactive s’more would be too much.
The tower of the E5 is currently also good, Hulldown hardly penetrating, just cupola is easily to pen I few situations.

Please don’t take it with you, I’m just trying to show you the view in Cw currently, I still respect your way.
I’m sorry for the circumstances 😕
Thank you for reading ❤️

[slender void]

Imagine what other horrors they've cooked-up for the rest of the tech-trees (An STB-1 with a pennable turret)

[sage bridge]

don't you see the messages above in the "coming soon" channel?

[thorny timber]

wgat happen,did the e5 finally get a buff?

[unkempt quest]

my opinion on the changes:

T110E3: removing the reticle calibration is fair, a frontline tank doesn't need it, also makes the snipe playstyle more unlikeable with it. Buffing the hp for that same reason is a natural combo. It's a supportive frontline td, there to help out the heavies. the tiny speed nerf won't impact much.
T110E4: a minor speed buff is always welcome, making it reach the front lines just a bit faster. alpha reduction by 10 won't affect much, but it's still a nerf nontheless. changing the ammo types is big though, affecting the normalization angles for the main shell affectively nerfing the penetration, but having heat as the premium round will make long range penetration of heavily armored targets easier at the cost of no normalization. shell speed changes are only natural with shell type changes.
M-VI-Yoh: turret traverse nerf is fair, making it feel more 'heavy' like. It's also compensated by the hull traverse speed being buffed together with general acceleration buffs due to terrain resistances. Although emergency track is mostly unnoticeable, it's a welcome buff to have.
Concept 1B: nerfing shell velocity and max speed is definitely interesting, should feel more like a heavy tank now. buffing the reload speed is nice though, extra dpm is always nice as well as the track mechanic for those situations where it can be used. This will make it much better at fighting around corners.
T110E5: the turret armor getting buffed compliments its hulldown playstyle, and traverse speed buffs are a nice addition to that, making it harder to be circled. weaker hull will most likely make it worse at facehugging, but it depends which part of the hull is being nerfed. the penetration reduction is very insignificant, but giving it back its old dpm is a huge change though, as well as removing reactive armor. This will impact the competitive scene.
T57 Heavy: clip reload being nerfed is understandable, its damage output is very high at the moment. turret armor changes will hopefully make it less troll, it's always hard to reliably shoot the turret currently. penetration nerf is minor, but understandable since again great damage output already. and judging from the HP buff, my assumption of the turret being less troll is correct, probably making it easier to aim at the weaker parts. very good changes.
M60: nothing much to be said, a minor buff to speed is always welcome.
M48 Patton: turret armor improvements are needed, it's failing to perform its role as a hulldown medium because of the weak turret. alpha nerf and reload speed buff practically cancel each other out in terms of dpm, and a decrease in penetration will make it need to flank more, the current penetration is quite good.
Sheridan: view range nerf is fair, a sniping mobile derp gun shouldn't be able to have the best view range in the game, also gives the bat chat more time to shine. shell speed nerfs will also make it harder to snipe with it, but at least it aims a bit faster.
T95E6: penetration nerfs are interesting, but at least its getting more DPM with the reload buff. it will also accelerate faster, and together with combat stabilization mechanics being added to it, its playstyle should improve significantly.

These changes are all great, addresses issues with tanks and are rebalanced accordingly. i approve wargaming , can't wait to see what kind of changes await in the other nations

[leaden flare]

t57 is all but balanced its overperforming noticeably
the turret gives random bounces making it a pain to fight
the dpm and gunhandling is insane combined with very good pen

[twilit crystal]

Sheridan view range was always stupid. It could spot any tank at insane ranges and slap them for 600 damage at early game. The others should cancel out anyway. Just replace GLD with supercharger

[charred comet]

Didn't need the shell changes. Leave it as AP/APCR/HE
Our goal here is to make the E4 a more close-combat vehicle. The logic here is that APCR shells tend to cause more ricochets while shooting from distance

I don't know if we want a 152mm gun with 560 alpha being that accurate
It won't be that accurate :) It's aiming circle will shrink faster but stay of the same size

[unreal anvil]

Both the E5 and T 57 doesn't need the changes, the E5 is balanced in this situation. The armour is situational and nerfing it will only give light to the newer HT that will be added in the future. The T57 like the other guy said, it's play style is unique from the 50b and Kran. It doesn't got the 4 clip autoloader and maneuverability of the 50b and the armour of Kran. It's balanced as it is now.

[stone drum]

@charred comet
@delicate folio
Though your probably getting an excessive amount of negative feedback, I would love to sincerely thank you for taking the time out of your day too so graciously answer our plethora of questions!
Avec amour- Alexandre.

[leaden ember]

What I ask for is why the E5 is getting it's hull nerfed? Can't you see the lower part of the hull is weak apart from the fact that you can easily get ammoracked from the front?
My huge issue is making the hull weak obviously it will make the playstyle of the E5 different prob to smth like concept 1b (in a bad way)
Also removing réactive armor on th E5 is not great as the hp of the E5 is around 2350 hp which is meh agianst smth like an E100 or 60tp the real buff I would think of is give E5 a reasonable reload around 8.97 with a pen reduced by 3 mm to make it like the type 71 pen and make the accuracy a lil bit worse from increase the aim time by . 2 while it still has the same hull armor and also leave the réactive armor alone it's what seperates the E5 from smth like t95E6 and concept 1b am I right @delicate folio ?

[delicate folio]

We always told that we can and will change collectable vehicle (we've never told that we would never touch it's characteristics). You can buy or not buy it—it's your choice. What about Concept 1B: it's battle strength will be the same or even better than now—you will see

Next, your questions:

1. It's a nerf, but numbers are very small, instead of it it reseives mechanic and DPM buff. So, you can't say it's a tank ners, it's rebalance.
2. It's still early, you will be able to check in the longread in September.
3. Why we can't do it? Would it be better not to do early announcement? And you would know about the changes in late September?
4. As you can see, this is not a punishment. This is a change. You will appreciate it when you play (if you have this tank).

Please always remember: we can and will change any vehicle 🤷🏼‍♀️ But also remember that we do not worse, but change individual parameters—in terms of combat effectiveness, the vehicle will not lose

[glossy phoenix]

This is not really related but please fix the armour highlighter for aiming at the e4 cupola because it displays full grey and then a lot of shells bounce

[patent vapor]

i mean yeah its a good tank but not OP. like I get how strong it is. If theres a change for the t57 its removing the intra-clip consumable is one. But how else are they gonna touch it without making it a meh tank? like it dumps out a mag but isnt completely invulnerable when reloading. im trying to say that no ones complained about the 57 (in or against it) so its fine as is

[safe rapids]

Lmaoo well I have reasons but it’s pointless to share then because WG won’t listen anyway
I just feel it’s pointless to change most vehicles because they don’t need changing
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it

[unique scaffold]

I think concept and t57 changes speak for themself, the tanks are fine as is but the 57 needed the armor changes

[delicate folio]

Yeah, I can understand. But I'm sure E5 will always have a good place in CW. And it's my fav tank btw 😂 😂

[paper shell]

E5 is basically a love tank like Leo 🤝❤️

[delicate folio]

thank you for sharing

[thorny timber]

can we get info on how much mm e5 loses on the hull and will it affect it heavily or not?

[delicate folio]

thank you for your support

[fluid edge]

Pls no e5 meta again

[tame zephyr]

Changes are either too small to notice.. Kinda meh.. or Very weird.

But Still.. I think it's not good to balance Tanks with Consumables as an added factor to balancing. It forces players to use that certain consumable otherwise they won't be playing to the fullest potential of that Certain Tank.. and Overall it just makes the balancing process more complicated because instead of just focusing on the Tanks Stats.. U have another factor which are these Special consumables.

I think Just "converting" these special consumable as Special mechanics Unique to certain Tanks is much better. Then all tanks should just go back to having the same consumables?

For example.. Instead of Focusing on the E5's base stats.. You have to factor in Reactive armor (which you can't quite put into exact numbers because the consumable is situational).. Or Debate whether to give it speed boost or Not Instead of just changing the Tanks mobility which is much easier to calibrate (I assume.. since it isn't situational)

I just feel like everything got more unnecessarily complicated (In terms of balancing) when Special consumables got introduced.

[delicate folio]

if u don't mind, i will send u this answer #tank-balance-discussion message

[leaden ember]

What I see in this buff is wg is trying to make the American heavies have similar playstyle (aka hull down) plus removing the réactive armor on E5 is making really kinda weird? As it will make smth like the type 71 and concept 1b as better replacement for it cuz 1b has 10 degrees and type 71 is a troll also thank you for listening to us

[unkempt quest]

the thing with special consumables is that it gives people choices: if people choose to run one or multple of these consumables, they have to sacrifice other consumables like repair kits, first aid, etc. depending on the playstyle of the tank + player @tame zephyr

[delicate folio]

Right now I'm spending my day for this chat instead of doing tournaments to hear your opinion

[delicate folio]

https://tenor.com/view/evil-evil-laugh-evil-racoon-hehehehe-muhahaha-gif-25486258

[tacit pelican]

I am pretty sure E4 is really busted at this point. It can almost replace with other heavies or TDS. I hope WG can do something with it

[patent vapor]

tbh everyone here would agree the e5 meta is 10000x prefferred over type 71 (aka skill-less) meta

[paper shell]

I think we should all be surprised, so far we only know about one nation and its changes and I’m really curious to see what else we get as info.

I’m looking forward to testing a lot of new things and I’m curious to see how the gaming behavior will change.

Thank you WG for investing your time, Im sure it will be nice! ❤️

[delicate folio]

Yes, could be not very easy, but our players are very smart and skilled

no cap 😠

[whole spade]

yep，please change strvK

[tame temple]

Wallet worriers, TRANSFORM!

[glossy phoenix]

that lineup has more net worth than i do

[tame zephyr]

What does that even mean? 😂

"Our players are smart and skilled"... So It's okay that balancing gets more complicated?
I'd argue that not all players are smart and skilled but that's getting too far from the point.

Also... "significantly revised gameplay at Tier X!"

M60 + 2 km.. Wow.. Very significant change I see

Some random Tank.. -10 to average dmg... wow significant change

Some other random tank.. "I give uu Special mechanic that already exist in other Tanks because idk how to balance uu yeyy"

[frozen vine]

Why nerf of shell velocity on Concept Literally apcr's? I dont get it

OH I Forgot

Because everyone is spamming concept 1B and not Strv K.... 🤡

[burnt venture]

• E3: Ret Cal on 680 alpha + super speed was pretty dumb, so good thing you're getting rid of that.
• E4: Not sure why it needed to be even faster. For an armored tank like that, it doesn't need to go 37kph, or have yet another new alpha damage number. And the faster shell velocity along with having 365 HEAT... This sounds like actively trying to set it up for comp use. It's already good now, but this will just turn it into even more of a heavy tank.
• Yoh: This is a straight-up buff for the tank. Turret traverse matters minimally, but now it will be able to gain more mobility. Considering that this tank in most pub games comes in the form of 900 damage in under 2 seconds with ret cal, that sounds unbalanced.
• Concept: Not much change here. More DPM on the tank is welcome ofc, reverse speed might get nuked down to 15kph probably, but it wouldn't affect the tank really too much. Neither would the reverse tracks lol
• E5: Looks like the direction WG wants to go... IMO makes the tank kind of similar to old E5 then? Looks like superconsumables didn't really work out on the E5 huh, couldn't balance it 🤣
• T57: Clip reload nerf is good. An HP increase will have to hold opinion until the armor changes become released. Part of the issue with T57 right now is that it just has a very random armor scheme with 400mm+ autobounce areas. Remove those, give it clear weakspots, then maybe this tank will be slightly more balanced.
• M60/48 Patton: So M60 gets faster with no drawbacks, but M48 becomes another E50M / Kpz 50T thing after all the nerfs. A bump to DPM for a tank that is this huge but has only 8 deg gun depression is kind of pointless. And a pen nerf... for what reason? Sounds like M60 is just still the p2w M48.
• Sheridan: It needed the viewrange nuke. Shell velocity nukes are also good. Don't care about anything else.
• 95E6: It gets faster, AND gets stab mechanic, AND gets more DPM...???

[twilit sage]

This is just the current meta, but WG doesn't seem to agree...🗿

[paper shell]

Just wait and see what else is coming and how it really is in practice.

WG has certainly already thought of something meaningful

[delicate folio]

It was a playful compliment, and you are turning everything into some kind of serious discussion

Consumables is a part of the game, that's it. Like items in other games, that can change your characteristics 🤷🏼‍♀️

[delicate folio]

thank you for talking with us 😊

[delicate folio]

deal

[tacit pelican]

Please don’t nerf my favorite tanks ( V4, Super conquer and Amx 54). I will be so sad if I see them get nerfed in the future 😔

[charred comet]

yep，please change strvK
Okay

[delicate folio]

Guys, we have different departments that do different jobs

[leaden ember]

Tbh this change in American tanks isnt great I don't see ANY reason why wg nerf the E5 hull? And remove reactive I just have one question what the heck is so broken in the E5 to make it even worse seriously I would rather have the 9. 3 reload on E5 and no one touch it's stats agian rather than this new change making it a crappy version of concept 1b or a super conq

[frozen vine]

Thats not reason, to nerf tank that is well balanced on public. Because its "well performing" at tournament.

Tournaments should be maily about skill (and tactics ofc), not about who got pre-nerfed tank

[safe rapids]

That’s awfully nice of you I guess
Well I think my main point is that the changes aren’t needed
Most of the tanks are in good spots right now and my opinion is that if they don’t need fixing then don’t mess around with them

[delicate folio]

Nobody argues

Objective data and statistics of all battles are used for changes: how popular tank is, wr%, damage, live time, damage blocked, etc.

[tame zephyr]

"It's part of the game.. That's it.. It doesn't matter if it's harder to balance tanks with special consumable.. It's slready there"

What is dis 😂

If there were no special consumables.. No need to argue about giving E5 Reactive or speed boost. Just need to focus on balancing the Tank's general stats..

No need to think about giving reticle cali to E3 or not.. Just focus on Balancing the tanks stats..

But I guess OKAY.. Cosumables is already there.. Even tho it's already a strugle to balance the tanks..

I assuming here.. But I think it's definitely easier to balance tanks without the Special consumables

Like how can you even track exactly how effective the consumable are? It's situational.. Some games it makes a big difference.. some games it doesn't.. There's no exact statistic
Meanwhile.. Stat's are permanent.. and specific. U can tune them to specifically affect a tank's role.

[patent vapor]

i would also very much like to see a complete rework of the amx 30b. it's so out dated, out performed by everything in its class. in very dire need of a rework or massive buff. i think everyone here would agree with this...

ive had no reason to restore my 30b in nearly a year. maybe in a future rework? doubt it'll be french tanks bcs m4 54 and foch lines were reworked recently

[trail pewter]

I think the best thing to do is to wait other nations tank balance because for now we have just one, depending on other nations we can see how are they all going to perform against each other, for now you cant say americans are bad against european nations tank if you dont know their nerfs/buffs (if there are any)

[burnt venture]

Pointers specifically for @delicate folio@charred comet :

1. Why all the regular round penetration nerfs across the board? When you've clearly been buffing armor and have tanks in the game like Type, 268/V4, Mino, etc. Here you have pen nerfs for like 5 tanks lol, even a MEDIUM. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever IMO. Has WG stopped nerfing accuracy and started nerfing pen instead?

2. Why keep making heavy tanks faster and faster? I mean just here we have made E5 faster, we made 95E6 even faster, and we made E4 faster, and we made Yoh faster. And most of these tanks also got bumps to DPM, with a nerf to penetration on standard rounds. So what's the point here? Let's destroy mediums and light tanks even more? Certainly because they're such a weak class right?

3. There's still the issue of the autoloaders. It seems that none of these changes actually address current issues with autoloaders: they dump damage too fast and have too much DPM. The "nerf" to the T57 isn't really enough, and the Yoh wasn't really changed (although TBF it was one of the less unbalanced autoloaders). The issue with the T57, which was the insanely low clipping time combined with an insanely fast aiming and accurate gun, wasn't changed at all. And the DPM being decreased by like, 200 isn't really going to change just how simple and easy the tank is to play.

#3 is many people's main concern. I personally am extremely tired of tons of autoloaders being able to have the almost no DPM penalties vs. regular tanks, while only having to expose themselves for 10% of the time that a regular tank does. And sitting here watching WG make intraclips get faster and faster so people can yolo in and do more damage in less time is kind of insulting.

[paper shell]

Can we perhaps find out when the other nations are planned to announce?

Next Thursday, Germany is coming and then?
(Thanks for reading and answering!)

[spiral locust]

Okey step by step

At first

E3
This is strong front line td, so more hp is stonks, i think this 1km/h vmax less is the balance to the hp buff
Remobing this reticle calibration maybe is not necessary but its understandably, its high alpha td, so accuracy can not be to good, this consumable was giving sure with important shots during the battle/he shots

#2nd thing
E4
I dont understand why do u want to change ammo. Just leave ap/apcr/ he imo
10dmg less per shot its understandably too, now it is strong "heavy tank" with low hp
This change with Vmax im not sure ll it change something, its not big nerf but still its nerf

3rd thing

Yoh
Ymm. Its not something interesting. Little changes without much consequence.

4th thing
Concept
It has fairly good mobility, u want to make it worse for mechanic which wont rebalance mobility changes due to the gameplay profile of this tank.
Reload buff if i good understand has to be mobility changes recompensation

5th thing
E5
If turret armour ll be very good instead of weaker hull armour it seems good. Crossing terrain and traverse turret speed buff good. Penetration change it wont be felt.
Reload buff is the next + in overall.
Unfortunately it will lose reactive armour but i understand u want to change role of this tank, from dmg receiver to dmg dealer
With counting +/- it seems it ll be stronger tank for hulldown then now, and weaker reciver tonk

#6th thing
T57
Now its very good clipper which is almost op, i like this tonk now but again this is understandably from the balance side, maybe i dont like it but still i understand
It ll loading his clip +/- 20-21 s from 18-19 dpm ll be worse you know
Idk how this changes in armour looks, so i wont debate it, hp buff is compensation for 3s of reload, it ll be still playable but it ll be worse

8th thing
M60
Nothing special it ll be this same

9th thing
Patton
Slightly reduced alpha for a shorter reloading, Better armour
Ovrl im not sure probably it ll be a bit better

[proper wedge]

7th thing:

[stuck acorn]

• When it comes to E3, i think this change is very good. Super consumables are usually an unnecessary additions that make tanks annoying to face in certain scenarios and HP buff was much needed on E3 as it's playstyle is all about frontlining.
• I also agree with E4 changes. They are pretty small and won't hurt the tank as it's already strong.
• Yoh changes are also good. Reserve track mechanic was pretty useless until now as it didn't even allow you to back into cover most of the time. It was also pretty slow for pretty poor armor it had.
• Concept changes though are pretty unecessary for me. This tank was already pretty well balanced. I think reverse speed nerf might make it slightly less toxic, but i'm afraid that if DPM buff is too big it might make it a bit too strong.
• E5 changes are pretty unclear to me. Obviously it is hard to describe armor changes in detail without any pictures, but here these changes are detrimental. I am all for DPM buff on this tank, but if the hull armor is going to be too weak, it is just going to be a concept but with less gun depression and slightly more alpha and pen.
• M60 and M48 changes are something i've been waiting for for a very long time. These tanks were finally made different from each other. And i also like the direction changes are going in. M60 being a more mobile counterpart and M48 with more armor and slightly better gun.
• Sheridan changes are fine as well. This tank although never broken was very toxic. I feel like anything making people play it less is good. Aim time buff is fine as it was probably the most annoying thing on the tank for me and as long as it is only base aim time and doesn't affect gun handling it shouldn't make it any more toxic.
• When it comes to T95E6 though i'm not so sure. This tank is already very strong and i think it might be a bit too strong after this buff. It already had great DPM and gun handling so i don't think these changes are needed.

[delicate folio]

The goal of our game designers is to make the battles more interesting, this is a separate thing from the technical parameters. It's balanced separately. Consumables, tech parameters and mechanics are important. All 3 give the final result

[jagged crescent]

Hi can you share any early changes for the french tanks because I want to know whether I should still purchase the MLE as it is currently in store right now

pls ty ty 🙏

[barren lion]

Hmmmm I think I'm gonna wait to see how the T57 will change after the rebalance, especially armor. About the gun intra and pen nerf, I can understand becuz the intrclip consumable make T57 good at causing dmg at once.

[charred comet]

Why all the regular round penetration nerfs across the board?
It's for battle lifetime's sake: we are trying to make it a bit longer

Why keep making heavy tanks faster and faster?
Not all heavies are equally heavy. Some of the HTs need to be faster to get to hull-down positions in time (E5) or to be able to avoid threats due to the lack of heavy armor (E6, Yoh)

It seems that none of these changes actually address current issues with autoloaders
These changes are for American tanks only. Pls wait for the others to see the full picture and draw conclusions

[delicate folio]

See what a thing turns out: people who like everything do not come to chat in the comments. It may seem to you that some opinion prevails because you see. But in fact, only those who are dissatisfied simply come to communicate. And those who are satisfied just play and do not even go to such channels. Not looking at statistics and mass polls is a mistake

I'm not saying your opinion is unimportant or wrong. I'm just saying that statistics are VERY important and should work together with the community reaction

[burnt venture]

While there are some good changes, a lot of the buffs seem to just be towards mobility and there's quite a lot of DPM buffs, especially for the faster tanks.

Vs. mediums this is literally a straight upgrade, as the AP pen decreases won't affect the ability to punish medium tanks really that much. So mediums will now have an even harder time disengaging and using their mobility against these so-called "heavy" tanks

[crisp plinth]

• Sheridan changes are not really necessary. But if the changes need to happen, it should only get nerf to 275 or 270m view range only. Sheridan is a modern tank and a real scout tank, the ability to have such a great view is of course realistic and needed, plus the DPM were never the best thing when it comes to this kind of Light.

[delicate folio]

He is waiting for a rebalance also, like all collectible tanks. Wait for any details later

[tame zephyr]

Okay

Just thought that balancing would be much more Easier? or "Practical" if there were lesser factors to consider.. Specially Consumables.

If Devs can focus on Basic tank stats and Tack mechanics alone.. then It might be easier. and may produce a more pleasing result.

I'm assuming here but that's what I thought.

Thank you for answering!

[cursive roost]

Will we see any nerfs to tvp any time soon? Imo that thing is little too good

[delicate folio]

Thank you for talking 🤝

[delicate folio]

will see... soon

[stuck acorn]

I have few questions.

• Are you going to rebalance all T10 tanks without any exceptions?
• Are you going to touch any tanks at other tiers?
• Are you going to post every nation one by one weekly? (it seems to be pretty slow pace, especially considering that some nations have only 4-5 T10 tanks to rebalance)

Most of the proposed changes for USA tanks seem very good, but USA was clearly a nation with the least amount of tanks being seariously unbalanced before the update so i'm still pretty concerned about other nations.

I hope WG will be able to do as well with tanks that are extremely hard to balance out or are in a very good/very bad state for a long time now. (Obj 263, Badger, Grille, TVP, Maus, 183 etc)

[wooden lynx]

The changes on the Sheridan was really unnecessary, it was never broken to my perspective. The view range and the alpha was everything going for it and here comes the nerf to the Sheridan that I never seen anyone have asked.

Many have asked for the TVP T50/51 to be nerfed and yet there it is still spreading toxicity to the gameplay and experience of the players.

[main grotto]

Concept 1B 😦

[nimble zodiac]

Interesting that WG still tweaks T110E5, I wonder if they'll drop down and rebalance T29, T32, and maybe update M103

[delicate folio]

1. Sheridan Missile is the only exception
2. A little bit for 10.3 (according consumables)
3. Yes, week by week 🤷🏼‍♀️ It's our plan rn

[burnt venture]

Sheridan was just as toxic as TVP lol.

TVP actually takes some strategy to use without taking a bunch of damage in return. You needed to flank, you needed to be patient until the enemy fires. Sure it does 1240 in 5 seconds, but you still need time to do the damage.

With current Sheridan you can legit sit in TD positions unspotted, spot for yourself all the way through to the frontlines, then hit someone for TD alpha while staying undetected. It also already got a DPM and accuracy buff, along with still retaining the best HEAT pen on any LT or med. It requires such little effort to do the same damage and have the same battle impact as other LTs that it's laughable.

It's hands down the easiest light tank to play in the game by a mile. Same with the T92E1.

Anybody really defending Sheridan either is just spamming it full-time, or has no idea what the tank can actually achieve. Ofc TVP needs to be nerfed as well, but Sheridan definitely deserves the viewrange nuke here, and WG was even kind enough to buff its gun handling yet again

[modern heart]

if the goal is to make rebalancing interesting, why are heavy tanks, which have already been dominant for the past four years, being made even stronger? other tank types have been severely outclassed for far too long, and it is quite frustrating that there's no end in sight.

[unkempt quest]

something i'd like to request here: can we have a statistics tracker on our profile for assistance damage and damage blocked? assist damage is a statistic that is very overlooked in today's meta and i think it'd be a good idea to be able to showcase how much of a team player we are by showing this stat on our profiles, and perhaps tanks individually as well. Light tanks would benefit a lot from this as well

[safe rapids]

If we want to work together as a community I think listening to the overall broad opinion that is criticizing these changes is warranted. Time after time changes have been brought into the game that were received poorly and yet the balance team continues not to listen. A wide number of players probably don’t care but the ones that do care about balance are more often than not critiquing many of the recent and unnecessary changes.

[void pendant]

Not to be rude but you guys act like there aren't enough hulldown tanks in the game and you making more tanks being hulldown ??? What kind of thinking that is, truly don't mean this as offense towards you, but the changes your teams do are just BS

[rotund ether]

Is the E5 gonna get its OG dpm back?

[humble depot]

I’m going to argue that the Sheridan rebalance went the wrong way. The high View range was what made the Sheridan a proper LT, and other light tanks should’ve gotten a buff to a similar level of viewrange. The issues with the Sheri come with its armour and gun.

The armour is just dumb. No LT should have spaced armour all around that negates HE. HE is the reason that LTs are high risk high reward, because one mistake can cost you most of your HP. Much of the spaced armour should’ve been incorporated into the base armour profile.

The Sheri should’ve received a camo nerf, less HEAT pen, and a DPM nerf, as well as a loss to spaced armour, while other LTs should’ve had View Range buffs to reach a similar level as the current Sheridan. After all, what is a light tank if it can’t scout? Instead, the last good scouting LT is going to become cannon fodder for heavies and autoloaders.

[main grotto]

Can't wait for British/Soviet/German tier X rebalancing 🤨

[stuck acorn]

They can't really listen to what players say though, because different players have different opinions on different things. And you can always see a ton of people on this channel asking for completly unnecessary buffs or nerfs just because they feel like it without any data to back it up. If they should listen to anybody, this would be super unicums and players with a very long experience. Not all players

[ornate warren]

Man I m kinda scared about the rebalance on the E5, it might literally change the entire playerbase of it

[crisp plinth]

Sheridan opinion

-Sheridan is a light tank with the ability to out range many tanks, which is one of the unique feature of the tank. But it comes with the cost of no Armor

-We can see that the game meta is all about Auto loader recently. Let me ask you? how many single shot tanks can actually out-trade an auto loader? Well sheridan is one of the tank that has speed and decent alpha to take down those auto loader.

-This nerf is too much for Sheridan to handle, why do we have to nerf something that could possibily counter Auto-loader? but not nerfing the auto-loading tanks it self?

-Plus, nerfing the auto-loading tank will make people spread out their choices and reduce the probability of having more "No thinking" player.

+Well, if it not convincing enough, then buffing all LTs is the best way. By this way, LT will have more standing within the game and helps with bigger maps.

[charred comet]

you guys act like there aren't enough hulldown tanks in the game
There's really just a couple of true hulldown tanks at Tier X

[real bison]

@crisp plinth you may wanna read a top 4 NA pro's opinion on the Sheridan before saying anything

you get 560 alpha on a mobile, invisible platform that gets to see people long before they see it, if that isnt toxic, i dunno what is

[jagged crescent]

is this top 4 na pro in the room with us right now

[nimble zodiac]

"I don't like nerfing a tank that's busted enough to counter busted autoloaders"
We're really just trying for cope balancing here, aren't we?

@jagged crescent That screams ghost hunters 😂

[burnt venture]

the problem with that though is that at 320m viewrange you start being able to stealth-fire. AKA you can spot, shoot, and still stay undetected from an enemy.

While I hate HT meta as much as anybody else, this is not a good solution to it. Nobody likes being hit by some guy who barely moved from spawn, and allowing LTs (which are all sneakier than Sheridan) to have Sheridan viewrange is kind of broken.

You also have to consider that T-100 and 132-1 has mechanics which also alter spotting. Imagine 20 second spotting or 7 second despot on tanks with 320m viewrange. That's broken.

The maps aren't big enough to make 320m viewrange work. Most TD spots are give or take 280-310m away from their intended support locations.

@real bison ok look I am many things, "top 4 NA pro" is not one of them 🤣

[spiral locust]

10th thing
Sheri
For now its very good spot tank, after changes it loses his the best advantage. It has similar view range like hts
Gun now is little s hi t then even worse
It wont be playable

And 11th thing
E6
Better reload good, this mechanic weird change but still buff for e6
A bit worse pen wont be felt
E6 just ll be better2

[patent vapor]

Ok so here's my take on this whole issue of tier 10 balancing (My old reply got deleted for spam 😔 )

So right now tier 10 vehicles are being adjusted in groups of vehicles, like by Nation (USA currently). But this causes a problem such that balancing this group of vehicles will cause an imbalance to other nations of vehicles. For example, the E5 buff is good for the E5 itself based on the statistical data alone. Why? The player count will increase as players flock to try it out with its increased dpm and improved armour, but how will this affect the other tier 10 heavies?

The Super Conq, a tank that plays very similarly to the E5 now will be affected. People will say the Super Conq isn't worth getting since the E5 can do what it does mostly (Except the HESH), which will result in less being bought. Player satisfaction will increase because a tank that f2p players can get is now as good as the premium version, or it will UNTIL people complain about the e5 meta, the tank is nerfed again and the cycle starts again.

And we're not mentioning toxic tanks that need to be rebalanced like the tvp 50/51 which have a frankly toxic playstyle, whose data is skewed purely because its players are a mixture of skilled players and noobs who dump a mag into a player and die. Therefore data alone is unreliable and skewed.

I don't have the right to criticise you on how you balance your game but the way I see it, a MASSIVE tier 10 rebalance needs to be done with every t10 vehicle. But this isn't possible practically, so the next best thing is to do a community selection of tanks that need to be changed. But you can't do this in reality, so the best option is to ask the community what vehicles they would like to be reworked on YT, discord, reddit, etc and base future reworks on that

[twilit crystal]

320 view range worked fine on the vickers, it was an issue with the sherirat. Pretty sure Vickers CR still has 305 at tier 9

[void pendant]

Concept, kranvagn, mle, vk 90 (isn't mained as a hulldown tank but when used that way it's one of the best), yoh, super conq, chief mk 6 and I could go on and on and on naming tanks for you that are just mostly used in hulldown by players and do the job really well there, but yeah wg always keeps talking the same, and also not to mention all the mediums

[humble depot]

Sorry, what?!

Yoh, Concept, 60TP, Type 71, Minotauro, E 50 M, M48, M60, Kranvagn, STB, AMX M4 Mle 54, and I’m not even done! What do you mean there are only a couple hull-down tanks at Tier X?!

If this is the sort of ignorance that the balancing department is bringing to their own game, then it’s no wonder these changes are so awful.

[wooden lynx]

• Instead of nerfing the Sheridan's view range, why not just buff all the lights so they can do the proper spotting role.

• What will be the use a Light tank if it cannot spot.

• What the Sheridan's capabilities that needs to be nerfed is the HEAT pen.

[rotund ether]

Nope wrong. The sheridan although annoying, does not deserve such nerf. I agree that the view range is fine. The armour is HEable if you know where to shoot and even if you dont HE it you will always hit its modules. The camo rating rn is mid, gets outspotted by a t100 anyday anytime. The only thing that they should do to it is give it AP as standart ammo, buff the standart shells and nerf the premium shells. For example nerf premium to 330 and buff the standart to 251(less 11 on prammo, 11 more on standart).
You can also argue a accuracy nerf would be an option. Maybe nerf the aim time or the stupid on move dispersion would be an option.

[leaden ember]

There is no reason for decreasing the pen on E5 why the hell you make the pen bad in that tank?

[stuck acorn]

it's not about the sheer number of hulldown tanks. It's about them being spammed and very hard to counter with very little to no skill required in order to play them. That's why people ask for rebalance of tanks such as minotauro, kran, Super conq, Badger etc. They aren't neccesarilly the best ones, but they are present in nearly all games and very annoying to face.

And to clarify, people don't want these tanks to be worse. They mostly have pretty low skill ceiling already. They want them to be easier to counter, but offer higher capabilities if played correctly

@main grotto most likely somewhere around 0%, because that would be incredibly busted

[modern heart]

heavies are just being made too strong. at this point, there is nearly nothing that medium tanks can do that can beat heavies in the meta.

1. heavies are characterized by having good armor, so why do they also need to have a LOT more hitpoints than mediums?
2. if heavies have good armor already, why is it also necessary for mediums to have such terrible penetration values as well? is it really necessary to make this even worse?
3. if the goal is to force mediums to flank, why are current heavies and TDs being buffed so that they can rotate faster than mediums can flank?

again, i will reiterate that heavies have dominated already for four years. is there any intention to change this ever, so different classes of tanks can have some time in the spotlight?

@tame zephyr TVP is only good because of its autoloading gimmick. it is not a representation of the medium tank class as a whole, nor is it a useful example for you to give.

[tame zephyr]

Unless they're in a TVP 😂

JK okay

[main grotto]

What are the odds for the Super Conqueror to get Conqueror/FV215b hesh pen?

[half galleon]

sheridan nerf on view range is uneeded it has a worse view range than is-4 💀 now

[safe rapids]

That’s true
However I think a large portion of the community is fed up with changes for no rhyme or reason, so in this case it’s somewhat warranted to listen, like you said especially to those who understand tank balance and have a lot of experience in the game.

Asking for nerfs or buffs is different, and that’s usually not what WG should listen to anyway. @stuck acorn

[valid mist]

Lower e3s armour alittle it is way to hard to pen even with high pen guns. Give it a faster reload or something or higher mobility but it needs less armour it’s a menace in battles same as e4. But still can’t pen it

[patent vapor]

Personally, I don't see hulldown as the issue here. We need hulldown tanks in this game, it's a playstyle. But the problem arises when those hulldown tanks are very toxic to play against/play in.

The Concept is super toxic at hulldown. Unless you're a big calibre gun you're not doing any serious damage to it with HE. But it can get shredded by mediums if it isn't hulldown, which is what it should be balanced against. However the proposed changes will make it even more of a medium killer.

And @modern heart I agree heavies are seriously strong but I feel like a big reason for that is because of what they encourage. A yoh? Dump 900 in 1.5s and hide. A kran? Crawl into a hulldown spot, sit there and shoot at your enemies. A concept? Go to the medium flank with your team and outclass the mediums as a heavy (Assuming you don't get yoloed by a 50/51 🤣 )

Basically the heavies are "strong" because they encourage a toxic playstyle imo, but I don't think this will change with every other class since they too are trying to do something that their class shouldn't be able to do. Like the balancing factor to the badger was that it's traverse was slow enough to be flanked by a medium, now it's immune. The TVP was balanced before it got its 4th shell because it's clip did no more damage than 1 shot of a deathstar, but now it does the same dmg as a 50b pre-rework.

Every tier 10's being buffed/reworked to the point where it's weaknesses are negligible...

@jagged crescent that's the problem you see. Buffing every other medium will cause heavies to be outclasses, mediums become meta, heavies need to be buffed, everything else needs to becomes better, hence the cycle of reworks/buffs start again. That will not solve anything

[jagged crescent]

hot take, i think that the current tvp is fine, and its just that the rest of the mediums need to be buffed to be as strong as the tvp, that way mediums are a legitimate threat in the game

[leaden ember]

Also the E5 will have worse pen than is7 💀 which is questionable from the balance department? I'm talking abt ap shell

[real bison]

uhh the 340 HEAT pen will still be there

plus the IS-7 has higher base pen than most other tier 10 heavies, that's its thing

[vale timber]

Why is 121b the only medium with reactive armor, which again makes another premium tank being better than tech tree ones

[proper wedge]

@valid misthow t110e4 has 3200 dpm while t110e3 has 2850

[modern heart]

would not agree personally. buffing everything to the level of the TVP would make things too top-heavy in terms of balance. imo the best design principle for balancing is to bring as many tanks closer to the middle as possible, which means nerfing heavies in some way. however I do think mediums need a blanket pen buff if WG is unwilling to nerf heavies

[burnt venture]

The answer to all of those questions:

The current average player does not have the hands necessary to carry out basic game functions.

If you imagine a terrible player who worked at WG, and all the threats to that terrible player who spams heavy tanks which are present within the game, that's basically their current balancing direction lol

[half galleon]

dont agree with sheridan view range since its supposed to be a light tank its job is meant to spot how can it spot now when its view range is worse than heavies?

[main tulip]

if everything is brought in line with the TVP, then that level becomes the middle. It's not "top heavy"

Or rather, you will have achieved perfect balance

But if we're just talking about meds, the TVP currently performs worse compared to some of the stronger heavies and minotauro, so it would be a decent spot for all of them to sit imo.

[charred comet]

Yoh: it's turret armor is weaker than that of the E5, so the Yoh isn't a true, pure hulldown player
Concept 1B, AMX M4 Mle 54: collector tanks, I was talking about researchable ones everyone can obtain
60TP, Type 71, Minotauro, E 50 M, M48, M60, Kranvagn, STB: completely different gameplay compared to the E5. Some of them are way faster and don't rely on playing hulldown all the time, some are heavily armored in the hull (so they are classic heavies, usually with worse gun depression), some have an autoloader or autoreloader guns, so they are "ambush predators" in the first place.
Which of the Tier X researchables does rely so heavily on the hulldown gameplay due to having a really strong turret but weak hull, and a convenient regular (non-autoloader) gun, i.e. is a true hull-downer? It's the E5 itself

[nimble zodiac]

After all, the cupolobotomy they did on the E5 serves this purpose as well :p

[patent vapor]

The cycle of rebalance:

1 tank is overperforming --> Everything around that tank is buffed/nerfed accordingly --> The class becomes strong --> The "class" meta dominates the game --> Reworks come changing the meta because it's stale/boring after people complain --> Those tanks are nerfed and underperform after bering nerfed --> A new tank/class becomes meta after a buff is introduced --> cycle starts again.

Translation: Balancing needs to dig the weeds (unbalanced/toxic tanks) which will allow a better picture to be seen of how everything else is balanced. Once everything seems to be on a level playing field, changes can be made accordingly.

Like did the 268 v4 need a 690 alpha gun? I feel like the TD alpha rework was brought about because it was so strong when introduced into the game

[humble depot]

All of those tanks rely on hulldown gameplay in one form or another. Whether or not it’s the same as the E5, my point still stands.

[thorny quartz]

New Kids On The Block - Step by Step xd

[solar sonnet]

Bruh the new tank balance is so bad

[stuck acorn]

I'd say it's pretty weird definition of "hulldown". A true hulldowner is not a tank that resembles E5. Or a tank that has weak hull and strong turret.

A hulldown tank is a tank that has a very strong turret and gun depression good enough to make it work. It's as simple as that.

Your message highlights one very important point though. Most hulldown tanks in the game are collector/premium vechicles.

But as other WG employee said above, these tanks don't get any special treatment when it comes to rebalancing though, so they should be dealt with the same way.

people don't want more hulldown tanks in the game, because the current ones we have in the game are mostly extremely toxic. It's not because they are too strong, but because they require very little skill to use and at the same time are very hard to counter, even for a very good player.

If you rebalance the tank to both, require skill to use and be counterable in a reasonable way without being forced to straight up yolo it or pixelsnipe, nobody will complain.

[modern heart]

no, i disagree. it is a bad design principle to buff all underperforming tanks to the standard of the best tanks. making every tank incredibly strong is not balancing. a game with 7 broken tanks vs 7 broken tanks would be degenerate. the tanks themselves would not have balanced weaknesses and strengths.

[sleek vault]

Psst hey devs, how long is the concept 1b reload gonna have? We are not talking about a significant decrease in reload time right?

[leaden ember]

I see that the E5 needs some reblances
1.the réactive armor shouldn't be removed
2.if the hull will be weaker then at least give it some hp buff to become around 2400 hp or higher maybe
3.the pen nerf is very bad it shouldn't be touched as it makes it the ap on E5 useless and most of the time I'll rely on spamming heat shells Idc if it's a bad idea but that's the issue I'm seeing

[burnt venture]

the TD alpha rework isn't because of the 268/4.

The 268/4 and Type 71 were 9.1 tanks that were introduced BEFORE 9.1. So during 9.0, WG announced already that those two tanks were not going to be rebalanced because they were already balanced around 9.1 balance standards.

Post-9.1 balancing IMO is kind of a disaster. It doesn't help that 268/4, Type 71, and Mino were the first 3 new tanks under 9.1, which were all broken / extremely toxic in one way or the other.

And now new lines are kind of just these lukewarm mediocre tanks like 132-1 and VZ-55 which are doomed to 1200XP ace bar eternity (at least on NA and APAC).

WG has leaned so far into role-based balancing that they aren't seeing the reality lol. As this entire thing about "oh but technically not a hulldown tank" tells a lot about

[zinc geyser]

Bring back the traverse speed on the t-22medium. And then atleast make the tvp 50/51 have atleast a 2.0 intra-clip

[thorny timber]

@ornate warren well,your opinion on the e5 rebalance?

[main tulip]

I wish they would bring back the cupola

[humble depot]

You don’t even need gun depression. Hull-downing is just hiding your hull, so things like small hills, rocks, or rubble piles count. That’s what makes tanks like the 60TP still capable of hull-down combat while only having 7° of gun depression.

[patent vapor]

I just wish that they don't try to force a tank into it's role. Like this tank is ONLY ever meant to play THIS role in the game. It's so stale. I like well rounded tanks that can perform against other classes. Like the T57 is a perfect example

Enough armour and firepower to be a heavy and fight other heavies, not good enough mobility to out-manuver mt's or lights, just enough armour to fight against some td's. AKA a perfectly balanced tank. It's fun to fight in and not a hassle to fight against.

Then we have the 50/51 💀

noobs yolo 1 clip, die. Pros do 4k+ a game and out trade heavies. Enough mobility to run away and not get punished while reloading, toxic enough to make the enemy ragequit.

Then there's the mino

A complete pain to play in, play against, incredibly stale and boring playstyle, not interesting at all, restricted to 1 flank because of mobility and.

Jesus tier 10 is a mess isn't it... just stopping and looking at the state of some tanks.

[chilly crane]

For 10.2 T92E1 didn't need any buff. The tank overall is fine, except for the armor profile, which is a bit too strong for a light tank imo

[exotic blade]

Should buff the T95e2.
The speed is normal, the gun has dpm, which is good, but the turret is too thin, which is not good.
I wish they would increase the penetration and make the turret harder (the shields are really thin, and there's a big cupola).

[modern heart]

i'm disappointed that the disparity between heavies and other tank classes will not be resolved any time soon. but at least WG is not adding artillery, so it's not ALL bad.

[half galleon]

if its adding artillery gonna quick the game lmao, the sheridan with the missile mechanic was proof enough that it was uneeded which is why the sheridan missile exists

[leaden ember]

I feel like I'm dumbfounded rn half of the community says the the change on E5 is good and that it made it a good hull down and the other half says the change is bad and there is a need for reblance on the special consumable part
After all we still don't know how that change will really affect these tanks we also didn't see the other changes on rest of the heavies like 60 tp is type 71

[tidal ore]

@left grail @delicate folio you guys should be making rebalance polls to the community before making any change in the game I'm so disappointed.

[queen geyser]

maybe some people have a diffrent idea on how the E5 should work ig

[sage bridge]

🤔

[thorny timber]

It's arugably more of a change than a buff or a nerf either,e5 gets better hulldown and 1v1 capabilities for less effectiveness in facehugs and front lining considering the weaker hull by God knows what exact amount,the traverse and terrain changes are ok. might help e5 to react faster

Considering the amount of nerfs it had got to get to this point,the mm removed from hull shouldn't be too bad

[unique burrow]

It‘s not 100% a bad thing, but saying a Jagt E100 is only a sniper isn‘t true, or a Minotauro, bough can be frontlines, but making something a 100% frontliner like whe saw with the Minotauro when it was interduced, is stupid and makes stuff unbalanced, stuff shouldn’t be simplified, it should be more that they should be made more complex… when a tank is simplified it becomes boring and broken. But making a tank complex, makes a tank interesting and the game in all more existing… that‘s a reason why a lot of original tanks where „balanced“, if you would just changed the setting of a tank to the standard of the time a tank would be interesting…

Conclusion on all:
Make tanks more complex, to make the game and the tanks more interesting and balanced

[leaden ember]

My point is that wg is trying to make the E5 have similar playstyle as concept 1b which is not good as it the 1b will be the better option for hull down (10 degrees gun depression) not only that but now I see the E5 as one of the tanks that can counter an 1b with its strong hull by facehugging it and turret wiggling combaine that with réactive and adrenaline and advanced caliber I can stand a chance agianst 1b s and other heavies

[tame zephyr]

Define "Complex" using specific examples.. Because that's so easy to say but what does it really mean.

Also Complexity of tank = Balance? hmmm

[burnt venture]

I mean the role-based balancing has been kind of a joke ever since it was revealed that they were going to move it into tier 8+ after it did "very well" when they tested it in lower tiers.

I've been against the thing ever since they came out with it.

• Lower tiers are a mess because of the new balancing: heavy tanks are insanely strong and gaps between tiers are massive, but WG said it was fine and put role balancing in higher tiers anyway
• WG making up roles for tanks seems like a terrible idea, then they posted those roles and they were a bunch of redundant messes with little distinction between certain roles
• We had really stupid balancing like that one update with the SU-101 nerfs and SU-130PM buffs

Instead of every tank be unique like it's own thing we just kind of have a bunch of strange decisions that led to even stranger tanks.

The entire point of 9.1 was that they rebalance tier Xs by, and I quote, "[enhancing] both the strengths and weaknesses of a tank to make the game more diverse and open to a larger variety of tactics."

instead what we got was a handful of tanks still being meta, a handful of tanks being neglected and damned to 1200XP ace bar hell, and a handful of tanks (like Mino) where they're so broken yet so bad at the same time that there's people crying OP and crying weak all at the same time.

If we reverted back to 55-65% winrate balancing, all of this would probably be a bit better. It won't fix everything but at least it won't be this level of bad.

Also for all of you people crying about E5: the tank basically got reverted back to it's original state, except with an extra gun handling buff. I'd say that's a pretty decent change, plus a low-key admission by WG that superconsumables just couldn't work at all on E5.

[granite pebble]

I love how everyone is talking about the E5, like it didn't just get a massive DPM buff and that the change is overall a positive change.
Especially considering it now separates it from the Type 71

Also why are all of y'all so hooked on the E5 like the E6 didn't just get a MASSIVE buff

[unique burrow]

Complex in a way you need to angel to make armor work, best example Maus. Maus not angling is weak, and that‘s why people say it‘s bad, what they don‘t know is how to angle, and hide there weakspots, because when it angles, the armor becomes quit strong… or b-c 25t (any version)… it has good penn to fight meds and lights, but just not enough to fight highly armored angled tanks… or the leopard 1, you can play aggressive, but not overrat your self, since it has just not armor (tfp 50/51, is just what it looks like if the leopard 1, had an autloader)

[acoustic estuary]

But Maus is bad 🤦‍♂️

[humble depot]

Your point about the Maus is completely moot. Tell me, how are you going to hide the turret cheeks when you want to shoot someone?

[thorny timber]

E5 nerfs also don't really make a very good nerf for it here too,the reduced mm of pen is bare minimum and you still have a pinpoint accuracy gun for a t10 heavy so the small spots aren't too difficult to spot and hit,and if you can't afford losing your shots then there's your 340 heat with better DPM at it too,might be able to fight with the 1b but we'll only get to know once it's actually in action

[light vapor]

No. I bounced three shells in a row from a ho ri so i think your wrong

[sleek reef]

If M48 Pattons and E4s dmg will be reduced by 10, then what about M46 Patton and T30?

[burnt venture]

E6 currently has faster top speed, better gun depression, and better camo values than M48 Patton.

Next patch it will get better power to weight, while having more DPM and instant accuracy upon stopping.

What's M48 Patton getting? a 10 alpha nerf with a turret buff (which most likely won't do anything at all)🗿

[unique scaffold]

🔑

[remote oriole]

Got to love that WG makes heavies like mediums instead of just making mediums competitive

[crimson dagger]

I wish wg would leave tanks that don’t need touching alone. Seriously what is this game becoming, because I really don’t like it.

[analog basin]

Pls make t44100 as premium version of t44 tech tree

[granite pebble]

Like this is literally just a net gain from the E5, especially considering how insanely good the gun already is, the tank should've always been about it's gun and not some stupid troll armor.

Also how are we really so stuck on the E5 changes but ignoring the E6, Concept, and M60 changes.

M60 is just now even better and the M48 is uh.... Getting some weird changes that literally do not make sense for the tank aside from the armor.

Also I love how the E6 is going to literally have worse armor than the M48 but have a better gun and comparable mobility.

Did they forget which one is a medium and which one is a heavy? Kek

[real bison]

uhhh the T-44-100 already is in the game

[leaden turtle]

your first mistake was forgetting the patton only has two bars above it and the e6 has three. 3>2 so the e6 must be a better tank in every way and these changes finally reflect that

[half galleon]

That ho-ri was a noob lmao

[unique burrow]

That makes it balanced, you can tell me you want it to be in pennabale, you turn shoot, and angel the turret agin, that‘s all you can do

[thorny timber]

Most people are complaining about tourneys getting back on the e5 meta,even with the broken and less skill based t10 heavies we still have today? My opinion is that this update isn't gonna make e5 players any godlike beings of power,just a small change in the roles and only proper experienced players will learn to make the most from it and also an important sign from wg that s.consumables are mostly useless

And many people aren't talking about e6 because only some people actually have it so even talking about it being broken is just out of their question for some reason

[barren rover]

Why the nerf of the Concept 1B for a Emergency track ? It wasn't a bad tank or a op tank.
Less global reverse speed is bad for Hull-Down.
And less shell speed isn't good, the shape of the turret make us need good snap shot capabilities.

[winter sluice]

Hot take: Why not keep AP rounds as standard rounds on the E4 but instead of HEAT on premium give it a premium AP that deals more damage but less penetration? It would create an interesting gameplay for the E4 and make it quite distinguishable from the E3.

[burnt venture]

@crisp plinth I mean yeah no argument there about intraclip nerfs. TVP takes skill to play no doubt, but the clip dump is so fast that any person can just go and yolo for 1200. If you ever get tunneled by a TVP, there's basically no way to stop it from taking half or 1/3rd of your HP unless your entire team shoots it all at once.

@granite pebble They basically reverted E5 to the original state before all the changes they did to it, outside of an accuracy buff. I'd say that's good, less superconsumables and more solid stats. As for comp play, I'd rather see accurate, reliable heavy tanks than watch 5 clips of "awesome" tourney replays be ammoracks and games be thrown because of misses from tanks with .38 dispersion.

I would still like to see E5 with a cupola so it could get more DPM though.

@remote oriole the issue is, even when they make heavy tanks straight up mediums, the normal playerbase just ignores them. How often do you see people coming here to complain that the Strv K wasn't good enough because it has "no armor"? If they nerf Strv K or nerf 95E6, their future playerbase will kind of just vanish. Both tanks will just be stuck at 1200XP ace bars forever.

We are at a point where people are so used to heavy tanks being fast AND armored that a nerf to a less-armored heavy tank could cause non-unicum players to just abandon the tank lol

[granite pebble]

Because they had to tone the E4 down in some way from literally just being a heavy tank that had good dpm with high alpha for the trade off of... Like 200HP from other heavies? Imo the E4 change is good since it brings the tank down a bit, and the HEAT premmo is arguably a good thing in all honesty

@leaden ember Super conq on flat ground is just as bad ??? Tf dude, and 60TP's armor literally just gets buttered by the E5's BASE HEAT pen of 340

[lone escarp]

e4 is now stupid as hell

[leaden ember]

Okay if everyone in this server agrees that the E5 change isn't too bad then tell me in what way the E5 will be able to counter smth like a super conq or a 60tp on a flat terrain with the bad hull armor? Plus that the pen will be around 254mm

[nimble zodiac]

Why would it fight on flat ground where it is clearly disadvantaged?

[main tulip]

you don't play on flat terrain lol

[hollow sandal]

My brain hurts from such arguments

[spark shard]

Is 4mm of armor penetration really that big of a deal here?

[remote oriole]

It is not meant to? Like… that‘s the idea of disadvantages. That you have a disadvantage in certain situations

[burnt venture]

IMPORTANT:

For E5 and E3, both tech tree lines will get reactive armor and ret cal removed, respectively.

So, M103, T32, and T29 will no longer have reactive, and T95, T28, and T25AT will no longer have ret cal. There are no other listed changes for those tanks.

This change was listed in the cryllic server but not listed here.

[thorny timber]

They have their fair share to disadvantages,also the most average e5er is too stubborn to move away from a hulldown position lol

I never used reactive on t29 anyways,but for the t32 I can say it'll balance it with the high hp pool with sandbags and equipments as for the m103 i can't really say anything,I just want that damn Pringle turret adjusted

[ancient rampart]

So they're just removing reactive from the entire line

[granite pebble]

Guys, how is a Maus suppose to counter the E6 now if the Maus is on flat ground and the E6 is hulldown? BUFF MAUS1!11!!

Guys, how is E3 supposed to counter a medium tank hugging it's rear firing HE into it??? Help?? Buff E3?!???!!!

I'm glad they changed the E5, it's gonna be so much more fun to play

@glossy phoenix The IS-4 can hulldown really well, doesn't mean it's inherently a hulldown tank, same with the Type 71. Their statement of the E5 being the only researchable tech tree tank that is solely a hull down tank with a regular gun holds true, because the only other solely Hulldown conventional gun heavy tanks are collector tanks/premiums.

[glossy phoenix]

what ur saying is there is only one tank like the e5, which is the e5
every other tank mentioned can do hulldown and also a bunch of other stuff. meaning you have a bunch of tanks capable of doing hulldown. coincidentally (??) a lot of these tanks are very popular because of this. you cant say its not an issue when literally every popular tank which isnt a light can do it
plus everyone can obtain a collectable vehicle if they play enough right? 😃 so thats not an issue when considering vehicles

[nimble zodiac]

I think the point was that E5's playstyle was supposed to be for hulldown, while other tanks use other gimmicks, which apparently doesn't include Kranvagn in the list of dedicated hulldown tanks

@sonic stirrup Me when I put a super toxic gun on a more capable platform than FV215b (183) 🗿

[sonic stirrup]

How many people here would enjoy if we could either have an autoloading gun, or a 183 millimeter cannon on the FV4005, like you could pick which you preferred, or just for memes have a derp. Give a if you think this would be a good change/suggestion to add to the game.

[dapper epoch]

"Concept: reload time will be decreased"
Everbody: *dislike

[lone escarp]

agreed

[scenic maple]

facts

[thorny timber]

After the tumor cupola removal it was a very good hulldown-er,after 9.1 I'd cope saying that it also performed nice in facehugging but new the hull gives me a slight distrust on it

[burnt venture]

A 183 on the 4005, with ret cal, 10 deg gun dep, 180 deg gun traverse, and mobility like a Centurion with improved engine boost? kekw

E5 shouldn't be hulldown at all. It should be more of a hybrid, can play hulldown but has a big tumor, has some frontal hull armor, with a great gun with good DPM and decent mobility but terrible side armor. It should've kept the tumor because having weakspots on it would inherently make the tank different from other hulldown heavies while not being a T95E6 which trades away ALL the armor

[hearty steeple]

When one 183 is toxic, people legit ask why not add another on a better platform. Surely that'll go well

[half onyx]

WHY NERF SHERIDIAN
Why not nerf tvp instead literally no one absolutely no one asked for the sheridian to be nerfed while its the opposite with tvp

[real bison]

#tank-balance-discussion message

read

[thorny timber]

I'd rather have another nasty autoloader like the 4005 than it having the original 183mm,love the fact that you are already struggling on a Friday and the last thing you need to slap your phone in half is getting Heshed on the sides by a 183mm

@burnt venture i got what I asked for though,don't know about the people who cry about e5 being a tourney meta again as if it wasn't one from a long time ago

@dense echo the next thing is them asking for a refund,it might be a bad idea to even touch premiums and collectors at this point

[burnt venture]

I don't get the people complaining about E5 changes.

• Reactive removal is fine. Reactive is borderline useless IMO in non-competitive situations and for a tank that's so easily ammoracked, it's value in random battles is close to zero when you are essentially better off running another repair kit
• Hull armor nerf will be OK. The shape of the E5's hull guarantees autobounce zones, so unless they do something ridiculous like nerf the upper plate to 40mm, it will still have plenty of hull armor. Even if they do more than just revert the UFP BUFF that they gave to the E5 a couple patches ago, it will still have hull armor outside of a facehug.
• Plus, everybody was yelling for a DPM buff. Well here's your DPM buff.

Through this E5 change, we basically got everything that people wanted: superconsumables are OFF the tank entirely, AND we get some DPM. I don't see how that's a bad thing

[granite pebble]

None the less, a massive dpm buff at that

@unique burrow oh yeah my bad I forgot that the kranvagn has a regular single shot gun and no body just runs it, how could I be so forgetful

[tough talon]

After all, I think only 777, Strv and m454 need to be nerf a little. The others tanks are fine currently.

[unique burrow]

Kranvagen??

[dense echo]

If Concept 1B got it's original stats back when it was first released to the game, I would get a reason to restore the tank again. For many reasons at the moment, tech tree tanks like E5, FV215B serving me comfort and a better experience than the expensive 25k gold Concept 1B. Imagine how much money people have gambled in the Blitz Fair to get the Concept 1B and now free tech tree tanks offering overall better experience than that thing 🤦🏽‍♂️ Please WG, if possible give back Concept 1B's original strength when it was first released in the Blitz Fair globe. I just want the tank that I used to know!

[leaden ember]

The prob is E5 wasn't mainly played for dpm only but rather using the good armor on it to bounce shots, sure the E5 will get better dpm and strong turret but I see that the E5 turret was alr good for hulldown? Also enemies aren't dump enough to stand still in one place while they get hit by a hull down tank sooner or later they will find your position and they will kill you at that point I don't see the dpm will save you in this moment
But still we haven't seen the other changes on the other nation tanks so who knows if the E5 will be meta or not?

[main tulip]

Yeah I have no idea why that part had so many dislikes, frankly

[burnt venture]

E5 will very likely be back in meta.

It still has sandbag armor, plus the hull will still have armor just due to the shape.

Now it will have basically the old DPM, plus a gun handling buff on top of that, PLUS the mobility buff will make it have even better mobility than the current tank, similar to having a perma improved engine boost.

The turret will also get a buff too so hopefully the cheek weakspots will be gone as well. It's comp worthy now IMO. Droodles is gonna have to swallow his own words on E5

[thorny timber]

The mantlet will probably be forgotten,the turret traverse will be increased.

[tame zephyr]

In general, I just think we're not getting the ** "significantly revised gameplay at Tier X!"** kind of vibe with this changes. At least for now in the American tech tree.

It more like a MEH kind of reaction for some. Others Hate it.. Others like it.. But in general it's like MEH.

Some Tanks are barely "rebalanced" to make any sort of noticeable difference. Some just rebalanced to a point that it doesn't make sense? like We'd rather have the current state of the tank over the change? Something like that.

I think we need significant changes to get that significantly revised gameplay

Instead of like.. plus 2 engine power and minus 10 average damage and all those little stuff

[burnt venture]

React to this message with the number of German tanks you think will get traverse buffs next season.

Surely we won't see E 100 have FASTER traverse than the AMX 50B right?

[stone drum]

most German heavies have better traverse speed, lol.

[main tulip]

I predict Jagdtiger + Jag E100, and Grille 15 to get even lower alpha in exchange for even more pen and traverse speed

I also predict that they release a new super consumable called "super calibrated shells," that temporarily increases your pen by 10%/20% for AP/HE

[slim idol]

KV-5 needs balancing on god

[humble depot]

They’re only changing Tier 10 tanks. No Jagdtiger involved.

[burnt venture]

50 120 be like:

Thing is literally a Maus cosplaying as an armorless French heavy 🗿

[stone drum]

I think overall these changes show they are actually starting to listen. But I don't understand the penetration nerfs. However more importantly they chose not to take away key aspects of the changed tanks.

@burnt venture your forgetting it has significantly worse terrain resistance and lacks neutral steering lol.

[unique scaffold]

Agree with sheridan nerf, but only if you give missiles back 🙏

[granite pebble]

I agree with the sheridan nerf, only if they nerf it some more and turn it's spaced armor into regular armor

It out trades every tank except 150mm heavies and TD's, it'd be fine if you're not bad

The spaced armor literally surrounds the entire tank, it doesn't matter if it's 1mm of spaced armor, it's going to block HE.

[west musk]

quite literally, and either way why does it need the tracks mechanic if its playstyle is mostly peeking with its turret around hills, like why?? And not only that they decreased 3 of his stats just to give him something that will rarely come into play. And at the end of all of that they want you to pay 25k gold for a tank that is not only expensive but worse than tech tree tanks

[barren lion]

That would make Sheri almost unplayable becuz of its big size. Maybe nerfing the effectiveness of the spaced armor might be possible.

[civic turtle]

Sheridan armor is annoying, imagine a high calliber gun can be blocked or ricochet by a spaced armor 😐 that should be soft when shot by a giant solid ap .

[dense echo]

Now, it's 25k gold but back then when it was first released there was no price tag. Some people had to spend more than 400$ to get the tank. I would happily allow WG to experiment with the tech tree tanks but not with the expensive tanks. Think normally why people spend money to get an expensive tank? To get something special right? I think directly or indirectly they should not nerf expensive tanks. It doesn't matter if that was a collector or premium tank. They should not play with our money, time and expectations.

[stuck acorn]

Just get some balls and accept that a blantly overpowered tank got nerfed. I agree that they make the blitz fair tanks too expensive, but it doesn't justify it ruining experience for all other players. Nobody forced you to buy it

It kinda is WG's fault though. They made people believe that they won't nerf paid tanks, by not doing it. They need to change this idiotic belief and nerf all overpowered tanks, reagrdless of their price. It will make players think 2 times before buying something blantly broken

[eager spindle]

very good rebalance wg i love u :3 uwu

[ornate warren]

Wg saying “hull armor becomes weaker” on E5 scares me since I ve seen them overnerf or overbuff stuff many many times

[fringe quest]

Fr

[slender void]

On points 2 and 3: you mention some changes to other vehicles and provide numbers for them. Why no numbers for this one? How do you expect people to react after spending 25k gold and getting a nerf a few days later? That tank costs around 50 Euros. How do you expect people will react?!
Again about the whole trust thing: no one trusts companies who sell you something only to have it changed literally days later. You can implement the reserve track mechanic and the buff without applying the nerfs. It's your game, and you're the people in charge of doing it.

[dense echo]

Playing this game since 2019. I have over 50k battles. I am used to getting disappointed by WG. It's nothing new but, if I see something unfair I would say it's unfair even though they don't care. I have the balls to say that!

[hollow sandal]

Where smasher nerf

[stuck acorn]

This tank literally gets buffed and people still complain. So shut and take it. I got my concept out of Blitz Fair event. I am theoretically the most harmed one here. But I don't care. I am not a 100% selfish idiot and i know that even if they decide to nerf a paid tank, they do it for a reason. Right now the tank will not even be worse, so there is nothing to complain about.

People like you encourage WG to keep things like smasher, T54E2 or annihilator in the game in the current sate without any nerfs.

You are hypocrites that first talk about game balance and then cry when WG tries to improve it.

[granite pebble]

The only notable nerf is the reverse speed, which is being compensated by a buff to it's DPM
Holy hell this community is special

[burnt venture]

I'll go against normal opinion real quick and say Smasher is fine, even though it isn't perfect in terms of balance.

Smasher is too accurate. But unlike Anni it actually has significant drawbacks. It's just at a tier where most enemies are too dumb to avoid it or understand the threat it poses, but other than that I'd just say that it's a TD. The HEAT pen is also another thing that makes it good, but then again, I can really just chalk it up to tier 7 players being terrible.

There are more important problem tier 7s than the Smasher. Namely why the hell is Tiger I in the state that it is in lol

[mystic gorge]

Can I ask why mediums are constantly being thrown into irrelevancy? They are constantly being changed in a way that they don’t change at all gameplay wise. Meanwhile both heavies and tank destroyers are being consistently buffed on traverse, speed, crossing capacity, etc.

TLDR: why are meds being shunned every update? Are u afraid that med meta will return if they’re buffed too much?

[leaden ember]

No because wg has low iq brain and doesn't know how to balance in general ethier buffing a tank too much it becomes a meta tank or they nerf it too hard it becomes the worst tank in game as for medium tanks they are ignored like middle children in a family meeting

[burnt venture]

MJ and 34 both finding out that WG was favoring only heavy tanks like 3 years too late

[stone drum]

3 years too late??? more like 5-6 years at this point.

[leaden ember]

Ngl wg favors any class over meds for a reason tho
because most of premuim tanks and collectables are heavies and tds
Also medium tanks wether premuim or tech tree or collectable won't be able to make much creds like a p2w heavy or a td

[granite rover]

Sherridan nerf is pissing me off Why do u need to nerf the Sherridan its good as its is no DPM compared to other lights lower DPM compared to Vickers Light

[heady portal]

Why does WG continue to change shell types?

[mystic gorge]

Sheridan nerf makes complete sense. There’s no reason the highest view range tank in the game should also have the highest alpha gun out of any med/light

[jade bone]

what do u guys think about the E4's changes?

[burnt venture]

everybody that's hella mad about the Sheridan is guaranteed to just be the ones that spam Sheri and T92 like no tomorrow

[stuck acorn]

completly insignificant

[granite rover]

True but i would rather take a higher reload nerf compared to a view range nerf its basically useless now no gimmick. People spam sheridan cause its fun tank id rather nerf accuracy than view range nerf view range nerf was the only redeeming feature of sheri

[round horizon]

"the only redeeming feature" what lmao

[humble depot]

So the immunity to HE and the massive alpha just don’t exist?

[west musk]

In my opinion the "he immunity" is mostly from lack of aim, i agree it is mostly immune but even then you can pen its turret, lower front plate if u have good aim or in the middle of the side of the tank and tracks and of course most of the time only thw turret is a viable choice but still (also lower plate on the back)

[stone drum]

Lack of aim? Sorry I can't hit à lower plate moving 65kph at 300m with .362 dispersion.

[real bison]

lightly armoured tanks when a Sheri/T92 bangs them for 560 and can just run away:

[jade bone]

for real bro i hate it

[stone drum]

I honestly hope that the AMX-50b & Batignolles-châtillion char 25t don't get trashed.
Then again I'm hopeful for positive changes for the Foch 155 & AMX-30b, but I have my reservations.
As for AMX m4 mle. 54, It deserves à nerf/rebalance, the hp it has is beyond ridiculous and just is overall excessive, hopefully it will get proper gun and mobility buffs.

Regardless now all we can do is hold our breath and wait, this is Wargaming's big chance to redeem themselves, let's see if they prove themselves up to the challenge.

[west musk]

Sorry einstein that i couldnt think of the people that actually try these crazy stunts then cry they couldnt pen

[limpid fulcrum]

The poor E4

[main tulip]

Those tanks will be fine, but AMX 50 120 will get yet another traverse speed nerf

[stone drum]

We will see.
not a problem for me because I finally have the clearance to get inside AMX-50b

@fringe quest that would be nice, but i would rather have a higher top speed in both directions.

[fringe quest]

The AMX-30b needs a well deserved DPM buff, I keep getting from people that say the gun is inaccurate, to me it’s I don’t have a issue with and the gun is fine, just needed a well DPM buff

[cinder zodiac]

The 30B just needs a new buff It’s a below mid medium

[burnt venture]

1. If you are trying to make battle lifetime longer, why make slower tanks faster? Doesn't that create the opposite effect?

2. Those heavy tanks, even now, are getting to positions almost as fast as medium tanks. Will there at least be some mobility buffs for tanks which are actually mobile? Because with this change, the T95E6 will literally be faster than an M48 Patton. Does that make sense?

[nocturne mauve]

Long battles are boring

[neat rain]

The T95E6 has pretty thin armour for a heavy though. It’s a bit troll. But the entire thing with that tank is it’s mobility and dpm. It’s basically a med with too much HP

[nocturne mauve]

If you all die within 2 minutes I don’t think it’s the games fault it’s skill issue on your part

[burnt venture]

teamwipes are still going to happen regardless lol

Nerfing pen isn't going to change anything. In fact, it's more annoying because the only thing that buffs is... HEAVIES.

Nerfing down standard round pen basically gives heavy tanks even more HP for no reason

[burnt venture]

If you really want to see how smoothbrain the general playerbase is, the most hated on balance changes are all heavy tanks.

Because how dare WG make my precious heavy tank so much worse. Unplayable!

[weak haven]

to be honest tho, the concept 1b change is really useless tho, making it overall worse just to add a mechanic that hasnt really shown as useful

[delicate folio]

Just saw hugs, so send you my hugs 😄 easy to lose the message here

Still want to send you my huge hello and thanks for discussion. I already feel sorry for Arthur, who will re-read everything in the coming days 😄

[twilit crystal]

teamwipes are pretty obvious in why they happen. Its basic statistical analysis on what happens once its a 7v6. The team with 6 players should easily lose the vast majority of games

[remote oriole]

That‘s a pretty hot take. Losing a single tank hardly decides the game

[queen geyser]

the t57 change is just bad, why they nerf a gun when this tank should be all about the gun, just nerf hullarmor or whatever

[real bison]

the problem is more the fact it gets shell reload boost and random red spots (opposite of the Mk.6 LOL) everywhere

WG instead decide to increase the clip reload, which essentially forces people to use it

[burnt venture]

because a gun that dumps 1200 in 4 seconds shouldn't have 3k DPM?

It also is getting armor reworks so hopefully the entire tank has reliable weakspots instead of being 50/50

T57 is the most popular heavy in the game right now, it deserves to be nerfed. It's too easy to play and deals insane amounts of damage with minimal effort

[twilit crystal]

http://forum.wotblitz.com/index.php?/topic/113027-about-steamrolls/#topmost @remote oriole

[twin egret]

I would like to say the changes to the T110E4 is a complete nerf to the tank itself

[jagged crescent]

theyre giving it better dpm

[sharp raft]

Why is the Sheridan getting viewrange nerf? Specific tanks are supposed to be good at something, they all had it. The Sheridan had the viewrange for it to outspot any other light tank if running the right equipment making ur viewrange go up to 325m. The nerf to Sheridan will make no one wanting to play it. It’s gonna get easily out spotted now without any other characteristic changed?

[burnt venture]

lmao @orchid grove

[remote oriole]

I already discussed that

#tank-balance-discussion message

And I don‘t think that this simplistic simulation suggests that the first team to lose a tank is also the most likely to lose. Hp is an equally important measure, and in the context of the game it gets even more complicated

Just read my posts if you care about my opinion regarding this simulation

[twilit crystal]

This includes for hp. Thats why every tank has 5 hp.

[queen geyser]

oh I didnt know that was a game rule my bad

[patent helm]

i wonder if they are going to buff the german meds or not

[twin egret]

It's a toxic tank

[sharp raft]

It’s only toxic when the player behind it knows how to play it.

[real bison]

Sheridan will still have 560 alpha
Sheridan will still have mobility
Sheridan will still have its camo and related camo bonus
Sheridan will get better aim time

people: “NOOO DONT NERF SHERIDAN!!!!!!”

play a Leo 1 for an extended period of time, you may or may not develop a severe hatred towards Sheridan and 183 players who permastare you, which is all of them

[remote oriole]

True, Sheridan is the bane of Leo 1‘s existence

[ornate warren]

I literally stopped aiming on t57 properly since they made it 50/50, I still dont get why did they change the impennable hull with more pennable turret model back then

[burnt venture]

Nobody said it was a rule, but it certainly would be a good one to follow.

Why are popular tanks popular?

• Players tend to play tanks which are better than the competition
• Players tend to gravitate towards tanks which are easy to play
• Players tend to gravitate towards tanks which are satisfying to play

If you look at the most popular tanks, most of those fit this criteria. The top 5 right now are 183, TVP, Sheridan, T57, and Grille.

Just looking at those 5 tanks, they all satisfy at least TWO of the three above descriptions. Hence they are popular. And most of them as a result are really quite toxic to face, because a ton of the most popular tanks people love to play focus on one thing: risk vs. reward. ALL of these top 5 most played tanks share that one thing: low risk, massive reward. And T57 heavy is among them.

Also if a tank is too popular, it's probably because it's overperforming / toxic in some way. So it's not exactly illogical to nerf them...

[queen geyser]

no I meant that a tank with 1200 clip cant have 3k dpm, Im aware of server statstics and im aware that the tank needs a nerf but I dislike the approach they do

[clear shuttle]

concept getting emergency tracks 🗿

[crisp plinth]

What do you think of Bc 25t? should it receive anything?

@queen geyser I agree, sheridan with 265m and heavy like 60tp with 270m view range. Now you know who spot who first, Sheridan will get slap so hard with this view range. It is fine for me if they nerf it by 275m or 273m only.

@sweet ember If you run into map like himmelsdolf, your camo won’t work like how it should. After-shooting camo of sheridan is quiet bad, if not to say “garbage”. Even enemy with distance of 300m can see you after you miss the shot.

[ebon lynx]

E4 is getting too many rebalances, from a turreted TD with good accuracy and great pen to a semi-heavy that lost its high accuracy and pen (althought is still higher than hts + the 95mm HE) for a role that should probably be the role of the E3 in American tree.

[sweet ember]

You cant forgot camo ratings still exist

[lone escarp]

57 heavy or r5?

[stuck acorn]

perfect sum up of whole wot blitz community.

My OP hevi tonk get nerfed - me dislike 😡🤬

My OP hevi tonk get buffed - me like 😄😆

@queen geyser This is a great change. A tank that can deal 1200 damage in 5s shouldn't have over 3k DPM regardless of other factors. That's a fact. I'm really happy that they finally decided to nerf this thing

[queen geyser]

the t57 change is just bad, why they nerf a gun when this tank should be all about the gun, just nerf hullarmor or whatever

no its just a bad change, we have so many boring hulldown heavy tanks, there are in the techtree only a few tanks that actually stand out with the gun and not with just armor, every nerf that pushes the T57 (and 50B) in the more directly of the others heavies, is in my opinion just bad, they nerf the gun that made it actually stand out and give it HP like common, you should nerf armor or HP so that bad plays get more punishes but the tank still get rewarded when used corretly, also 3k dpm is completly normal, pls stop thinking that its extremly good a tier 6 tank destroyer literally has that omagowd

@round horizon woa, maybe because its also answering the same message that was posted a hour ago

[round horizon]

you literally copied and pasted what you said an hour ago

[thorny quartz]

Popular tanks when player feel power of tank ( good armour , good alpha damage, fast reload / shooting , more shells / clippers , good mobility , earn good credit , not easy to destroy it , etc things ) defenetelly player will chose that tank in battlefield where feel SAFE and STRONG in it , not will chose some of 30 sec and die and if they nerf those tanks , over and over again , simply just not will have mood to play it anymore and will find another game ! Not sure why need something to touch if was good for years , suddently need to nerf them ? wich logic is that ?

[patent helm]

tier x doesnt have to be new player friendly anyway

[stone drum]

It's going to have a roughly 21.18s reload (with vents after this change) funnily enough giving it almost exactly 2750 dpm. about 21.64 reload without vents.

It would have been smarter to just nerf the amour and remove the intraclip consumable imo though.

[queen geyser]

yes just nerf the armor, or HP, you definitly should get punished in the t57 heavy for bad plays and not safed by RNG armor

[burnt venture]

If a tank is actual dog but still super popular, why is there any incentive to buff it in any way.

Like the amount of people in this channel that complain DAILY about the Grille being weak is in the hundreds. Yet despite people complaining, it's still top 5 in the amount of games played.

All this shows then is that the tank deserves to be weak. Because if it got any stronger, it would be spammed even more.

I want to see LESS 183s / Sheris / TVPs / T57s / Grilles in my matches. So any nerf to those tanks (which almost all of them are extremely awful to fight against anyway) is really welcome. Too bad your stupidly easy to use tank just became harder to use, as if that's any reason to act like this is an inconvenience for the thousands of 45-55%ers with no hands that spam these tanks all day every day.

The most popular tanks deserve to be pieces of trash. If they're still being popular after they're turned into pieces of trash, that says more about the playerbase than the tanks themselves.

[real bison]

Leopard 1 players: "oh boy im gonna do some damage today!!"

some guy in a TVP/Sheridan/183: NUH UH!

[stone drum]

50b & B-C 25t: intense sweating

[real bison]

another thing for the Sheridan players, you only will drop about 15m of viewrange in total

not that serious, but now you aim faster, which means you can move onto phase 3 of the Sheridan playstyle that much faster; running away

its a slight change really, so most of you wont really notice it

[upper jolt]

Who else thinks that the Grille should have a camouflage buff. You can hide in a bush far from the battle field and still get spotted

[thorny quartz]

You say ( I want to see LESS 183s / Sheris / TVPs / T57s / Grilles in my matches ) and i say i wish to see in shop Strv K and Carro for almost free / low price that all f2p players can have it , NOT just big wallet players , so you will see then less tree tanks in your matches !!!

[burnt venture]

Dude whenever I see someone complain about how their HEAVY TANK in a HEAVY TANK META is nerfed, all I see is someone trying very hard to clutch at their pearls because their entire blitz career is at risk.

My condolences that you're going to lose that one tank where you can actually do damage and contribute to the team because you have no hands.

🪦

[grizzled stream]

I think a slight buff would be nice, also justice for RHM B cos that thing is so slow for a paper tank and lost so much dpm when they gave it 600 alpha

[real bison]

WG said it themselves that they think that a camo buff would make the Grille toxic

in reality it is as Synx says, people say its weak, but people still play it

just in my opinion, however, it should get some of its DPM back

also use the 128mm cannons @grizzled stream , theyre better

[thorny quartz]

we all can complain or say our opinions here but WG will still do it like they want / wish to do it all changes , so better all go play or watch movie , be with girl friend , whatever , not worth arguing here and waste time ! ( only if you bored and wish to chat )

[rotund ether]

Hi, pls give Type 71 same shell velocity as when it came into the game. Thats all i ask for :D

[neat rain]

People complain about the grille cause it’s in a bad state. It needs spall removed. And it needs its old gun back. Maybe some other stuff too but that’s the main thing
The TVP, 183, T57 all need nerfs/changes.

The grille doesn’t need a camo buff if it receives its old gun. It’s a glass canon. You have no armour. No camo. But you have a deadly asf gun

[wispy leaf]

cant believe they nerfed the 57's Gun , next change might have slightly better armor even tho the tank still has an aggressive playstyle. if they increased the interclip , maybe they would change the magazine reload altho it is unclear. increasing the armor would just make it similar to the M6 , so probably thats why the ticked of the gun and armor a bit since the interclip is impressive with the interclip reload boost aswell.

[harsh ravine]

After seeing the E6 changes, Im really hoping they turn the Obj 260 into a WZ113/Obj777 clone rather than trying to keep it as a worse E6

[stuck acorn]

god forbid trying to make it a better E6 💀

[jagged crescent]

I mean they might as well give it more dpm so that I actually have a reason to rebuy my 260

[stone drum]

They should nerf the gun depression imo, and give it other buffs.

[craggy dune]

Edit: as people pointed out I was wrong with the t57 changes. Please ignore those parts, but rest of my statements still hold

The t57 nerf was needed, but it's too harsh. The interclip will be 5.38 seconds. There are tanks that have faster reloads than that. "But it isn't supposed to have 3k dpm" the 183 has 3k dpm but nobody complains about how it's a dpm machine, because neither tank's problem is their dpm. Meanwhile the e5 gets more turret armor on top of a massive dpm buff? The concept is being nerfed despite being perfectly okay (I don't even own the concept so no bias) and the e3 is getting nerfed for some reason? The tank is boring as it is, if anything it needs a buff.

Most of these changes just feel like they were made for the sake of changing something. And especially on the t57's case, they chopped off what made this tank good along with the problem. And it still has the interclip boost which was a major part of the problem. The only result I see from this changes is yet another e5 meta. Because another brainded hulldown heavy was exactly what we needed. Why even play the 113 after this change since it will be just a worse e5. Or the 60tp.

I genuinely hope there is a typo, especially in the "by 2.88" section. Guess it's time to go back to tier 8...

[ebon lynx]

By interclip, they mean the magazine reload, not INTRA-clip, which is between shells.
They stated it above.

[stone drum]

The intra-clip isn't being changed the clip reload is. The clip reload will be 21.6s (maxed after the changes)

[jagged crescent]

swear word

[orchid grove]

Who else did you think would be a big enough nerd to post that 😂

[thin oyster]

💀💀 T57…

[normal verge]

Wth why nerf e5 so lame

[acoustic estuary]

It’s rather a balance 🤦‍♂️🤓

[obtuse sentinel]

Based

[neat rain]

All the coming changes to the American tanks sound good. Y’all just sour your OP tanks getting nerfed. Aka the Sheridan and T57

[acoustic estuary]

The only light tank that has a place in the meta gets nerfed. Seems such a good idea.

[sudden fable]

They will probably buff another light tank maybe who knows

[jagged crescent]

I see more t100s than Sheri’s

[neat rain]

I would rather any other LT to be meta than the Sheri. The sheri right now is literally an extremely mobile TD. It’s horrible. It deserves its nerfs. Same with the T57.
The rest of the American tank changes are just balance changes it seems

[twilit crystal]

I always had a feeling it was true but it was interesting to see it in action

[unique scaffold]

The gun isnt the problem, its the armor being troll and getting bounces where it shouldnt and pens where it shouldnt, just simply nerf the armor and make it a middleground between the m103 and the e5 hull armor and make the turret easier to pen

[acoustic estuary]

T57 will just be a bit weaker, no BIG deal.

[stone drum]

WG be like:

[nocturne mauve]

Worst change they ever made ngl

[tame basin]

Is t57 heavy still worth getting after the next nerf/buff?

[mortal falcon]

To the person at Wargaming who decided to buff the T110E5: I love you so much.

[errant stream]

Even though it doesn’t have the special consumables anymore, is the E5 still worth buying?

[mortal falcon]

After this update? Definitely

[main tulip]

Yes, no one uses reactive in pubs anyway

[grizzled lynx]

For comp it will be useless

[teal crystal]

183 is balanced enough because dispersion is huge, the camo value drops to nearly 0% upon firing (this is true for 90% of tanks in game) and it has no armor/mobility to relocate upon firing making it easy to take out as long as you have A.) Spotting range
B.) a competent team
C.) small area to prevent contact from a poorly dispersed shell

T57 absolutely needed a nerf, AMX 50 B needs to be reverted to what it was before the Tier 10 Rework because 4 shells with 8.19* second total to unload all shells is absurd, the yoh can do 900 in 1.67 seconds with the 120mm it has.

T57 is between that and the 50 B taking only 5 seconds to unload the whole drum

[void siren]

Literally nothing happens, get it

[clear shuttle]

reactive being removed or the E5 overall :pepehmm:

[stone drum]

I think it will depend on the armour changes, but as of now it's safe to say it will require better positioning.

[main tulip]

Comparing the Yoh to the 50b is pretty bad, as the fast unloading is the defining factor of the Yoh 2-shot. 50b is more akin to a heavy version of the FV4005, with a focus on high clip potential and ability to relocate, but with a forgiving HP pool. Autoloaders aren't just about how fast they can unload

[clear shuttle]

increase the 50Bs accuracy a little more then it’ll be fine imo, its previous buffs (especially the reduced inter clip) might of even been enough to make it “good” again
but obviously the community cant always be pleased
i can also see an accuracy buff making it a little too good but idk
also i feel the t57 and 50B have much more different playstyles now over when the 50B had a 3 shot and was more similar to the T57, even if the 4 shot change wasnt taken well at first/was something we had to get used to (i hated it at first)

[knotty surge]

That might be true, I could see a buff on the Chinese lights.

[valid mist]

Wait if all teir x heavy’s are gunna get more hp then the Maus is gunna have like what 3.3k

[nocturne mauve]

And people will still think heavies aren’t dominant

[jagged crescent]

Anyone who does legitimately believe that they aren’t are unbearably delusional

[south patrol]

My thoughts about 10.3 USA tanks

1B
I think the track mechanism don't need to be added. I wish the reverse speed will not be changed. The reverse speed is very, very important for all tanks. it's good now with a reverse speed of 18 km/h.

E5
T110E5 desperately needs DPM buff(it's more important raising upto which level) and improving the ammorack durability. Also, it is urgent that fixing the error of the gun mantlet armor. I wonder that Wargaming knows about E5 mantlet problem. (Droodles had dealt with this issue.)

Sheridan
I think the 265m view range is too little. => Maybe, It is reasonable for Considering other light tanks viewrange(274m - WZ132, Vickers, T100LT). But, 10tier heavy tank's viewrange is 264m ~ 270m.... I hope Bat-chatillon's view range will not be too much nerfed like this plan

E6
I think the combat stabilization mechanism will not be helpful for highly mobile HT like T110E6

Is there no plan to add the track mechanism to AE Phase I? not Concept 1B? Because modeling of this tank looks like suitable for the track mechanism.

Anyway, Thanks for the developers who are constantly trying to improve! 🙂

[thorny quartz]

and who carrie teams ? most cases 50% heavys 35% meds/lights and 15% Tds ( sure Heavies have big dominantion on battlefields )

[granite pebble]

You realize the E6 having that mechanic literally means it can just rock on a Ridgeline to make it's weak spots harder to hit while literally not losing any accuracy, right? It also got a DPM and mobility buff.

[south patrol]

Yes. I acknowledge the advantages of combat stability when fighting on a ridge. However, E6 is actually a medium tank, so I don't think there will be many situations where combat stability will actually be used. 🙂

[teal crystal]

I think Sheridan got the view range nerf to encourage Vickers into the meta

@granite pebble
T95E6 got a penetration nerf though, substancial enough to need to use Calibrated shells or forgo using Prammo which reduces its effective stated dpm assuming they are running rammer as base dpm

[south patrol]

Well, Yeah. If Sheridan's viewrange nurf is due to the Vickers, that makes sense.

[void siren]

265 is probably without provisions or something

[mortal falcon]

The new 50B is honestly way worse than the old one (pre-9.1). Worse accuracy makes missing shots more common, and the change to longer clip reload for 4 shots makes missing shots much more punishing. I genuinely dislike it.

As for people complaining about the new mechanic on the T95E6, said people have likely never played the T95E6 well.

[tacit pelican]

Wish WG can nerf the tvp, obj777 and strvk

[clear shuttle]

that’s understandable, which is why i suggest an accuracy buff

[spice raptor]

E5 once loss its inproved engine power boost, it will also lose the reactive armor. The change of seeing one in battles is already low, now it would even get lower

[clear shuttle]

no it wont, if anything i expect to see more

[rose sentinel]

T95e6 was doing well on it own and now it become stronger?!?

[fierce crag]

I'm really satisfied with those changes,but still have 2 questions
Truly T57 will have more than 5s' inter-clip?That mean it will definitely trash no longer what kind of armor buffs,I mean,one mino should be enough,i hope it was simply a mistake
And also,Will other great balance changes done to other Tier 10s?

[burnt venture]

Guys my god...

Inter-clip: that's the clip reload, inter as in "international", BETWEEN clips

Intra-clip: that's the time it takes to go from shell to shell, intra as in "intranet", WITHIN clips

The T57 announcement is about the inter-clip: it's a 2.88 second increase to the CLIP RELOAD.

[main tulip]

They should just give it a 5.38 second intraclip tbh

[granite pebble]

340 base HEAT pen would like a word with you

[teal crystal]

how much of a reduction in dpm if you were to brawl?

[wooden lynx]

Instead of nerfing the Sheridan's view range, why not just buff the other lights so they can compete to the Sheridan's spotting capabilities.

After all they are lights and they are meant to spot tanks.

What is the use of a light if it can't spot tanks at a distance?

This nerf just completely crippled the tank.

WG should have just nerfed the gun handling or the HEAT pen of the Sheridan and just kept the View range.

Alpha and View range is all that it had going for it and now WG is taking away the view range.

[storm crane]

Thoughts on Windicator balance?

[ornate warren]

its currently a fun tank to play imo, but I would maybe give it either gun depression (1-2) or AP

[faint sandal]

They tryna nerf t57 too much I think

[granite pebble]

It crippled the tank? That's crazy, it's no longer extremely mobile, immune to HE, great gun handling, great HEAT pen, TD alpha, all these things were lost (including the aim time buff, lol) just because it lost some view range, oh no what ever will we do.

[wooden lynx]

Keep in mind the 60tp has I think 270m of view range and the Sheridan will have 265m don't you think a Light deserves to have Heavy tank levels of view range?

The main role of a light is to spot, the view range nerf was just too much, if it had received 275m it would be fine. But 265 is just too much.

It just crippled the spotting capabilities of the tank.

[granite pebble]

It is a light tank, not a scout tank, a lot like the 260 is a heavium not a super heavy, just because a tank has some little shape above its head doesnt mean it's going to do the same thing as others.
It still has its camo and light tank camo bonus, so it's still going to spot better than a 60TP in terms of not being seen.

[wooden lynx]

Light tanks performed the traditional cavalry role of scouting and screening.

You saying it not being a scout tank is just absolute misinformation.

So yes the Sheridan deserves better view range than 265m.

The nerf is too massive considering irl and ingame is a scout tank.

[granite pebble]

And all heavy tanks are front liners and should always go heavy flank right on the front eat damage :)

[nimble zodiac]

Well it's a scout tank no longer, reality strikes

Vickers Light will have 274m view range over Sheridan's 265m, right?
Me when I forget about crew food
Vickers Light won't spot as well as Sheridan, still.

[teal crystal]

so will Vickers spot better than the Sheridan or will Sheridan still have more view range than the Vickers... or is it same view range?

[unique scaffold]

Whoa concept which is just a decent tank gets nerfed I think it's completely unnecessary

[cinder zodiac]

He’s probably viewing it from a comp POV bc it does matter in comp

[rough sandal]

the only thing that i have to say is look the votings and how players don't like those changes...

[teal crystal]

as if a billion dollar company actually listens to us players that have been keeping the game alive for a while

[granite pebble]

That's crazy, T100 exists, T100 is literally your comp light tank, not Sheridan

[clear shuttle]

teams switch through the sheridan, t100 and bat chat tho depending on the map

[cinder zodiac]

Been on and I have called for many teams where they use both for instance depending on the strat your running you might want a Sherri for higher spot range for better cross fire spots or spotting lanes ect so yes but no

[unique scaffold]

Tank deserves a nerf, but it should be more focused towards the armor

[rough sandal]

well those dislikes are because all the changes are without any sense, they should really change Balancing department emplyeers

[granite pebble]

I mean it switches up things from Sheridan to batchat for that role, considering batchat has a whopping 4 meters less base view range currently. So this change doesn't really hurt comp so much as it does stop Sheritards running around outspotting everything and hitting them for 500 damage before 6th sense even pops off, and the T100 only has... 6m less. I get that yes even 1m counts but it's not nearly that big of a shift, especially considering these tanks have better camo than the Sheridan and can actually end up covering more spotting ground as a result without giving any info to the enemy team.

[clear shuttle]

actually running vents and double foods it has a whopping 1.2m less view range than the sheridan

[faint sandal]

agreed

[gritty sleet]

I hope to strengthen the fv215b heavy tank. His armor is not directly proportional to the quality. The quality of 70 tons of quality is paper armor, which is unreasonable. He hopes to reduce the quality or strengthen the armor.

[barren pebble]

Hi. Please make a buff of Concept 1b , alpha is too poor, and lower plate so big and thin.C1b is very weak.

[clear shuttle]

buff the UFP or speed and i think it'll be fine, maybe even the turret armour but i feel the hull armour needs more of a buff

[granite pebble]

It got a dpm buff

[gritty sleet]

Yes, fv215b needs to strengthen the maximum speed and armor. She is already one of the weakest heavy tanks.

[barren pebble]

But the alpha is poor.

[clear shuttle]

it used to be 400 iirc, it got nerfed to 380 on release

[twin egret]

it needs to live up to it's gun

[twilit sage]

Nice joke, fv215b is actually very strong. Saying that it is weak is very dishonest tbf

[gritty sleet]

Strong in the hands of a few people and weak in most people. The most intuitive reflection is that you may only see fv215b in 5 of 70 games. Can't this explain something? This is a master tank, which has a high technical demand for players, which is difficult in an increasingly low player environment. There are too many restrictions on this car. Maybe an ordinary player driving fv215b against a novice driving 60t, which ended in failure.

[remote oriole]

That assessment wasn‘t wrong, it just ridiculously overcompensated

[twilit sage]

Then players must get better, its not because a tank is weak for lots of people that it should be buffed. Fv215b has never been a noob friendly tank

[slender void]

They didn't share any numbers, and sourcese like "trust me bro, it'll be ok" are very uncredible. And only hide the numbers on that tank. Why? Also, what's with the monkey's paw thing: we give you a dpm increase, but nerf the reverse speed and shell velocity (and we won't tell you how much).. on a tank that relies on peeking... which they sold us for around 50 Euros.. only 3 days before announcing the nerfs

[twin egret]

The gun needs a buff accuracy-wise
It's a bit ridiculous that the Conqueror, a tier 9, is slightly better on-movement than it

[twilit sage]

Its already accurate enough

[hushed anvil]

where can I get the new balance changes notes?

[small crane]

They removed Speed consum from E5 and now reactive armor will be removed
I wonder why 🤔

[stuck acorn]

Mybe, just maybe because WG realized that it was Super Consumables that broke E5 in the first place. If it wasn't for Super consumables, E5 most likely wouldn't even get nerfed from it's original meta state

I am all for every single change that removes super consumables from the game in one way or another

[spiral locust]

I have one idea, if u want to change e5s role in cw games from dmg reciver to something more universal maybe add him super speed boost
Im not sure is it good idea but it ll be smtg intresting
@delicate folio what do u think?

[leaden elm]

Maybe WG found some clowns who's doing balance for r6s

[leaden flare]

have you like lived under a rock ?
that speed boost has just been removed from e5 a couple updates ago

[spiral locust]

I dont remember when it was taken, but someone from wg said they want to make from e5 smtg universal, this is just my idea it ll be more universal than whithout

[leaden elm]

I think WG's balance group is daydreaming everyday, like they don't even know what the game they're doing

[stuck acorn]

Can you understand that Super Speed boost is what broke E5 in the first place?

If E5 didn't receive the speed boost, it wouldn't be nerfed from it's original pre E5/IS-4 meta state in the first place.

Adding super consumables is not a balance solution. It only messes everything up and breaks tank that were perfectly balanced before receiving them

Also they never said they want to make E5 a CW tank. They just want to make it more interesting to play. Majority of people play only random battles and don't care about tournaments even to a slightest extent

I can understand balancing tanks so that they aren't broken in CW, but balancing a perfectly fine tank just so it is viable in CW is complete stupidity

[leaden elm]

sometimes they just do ridiculous balance on purpose.
like few months ago what they did in WOT.

[next nova]

Why nerf Concept 1B?? Its so rare and expensive tank...

[spiral locust]

Maybe u re right in 3 first paragraphs, but i said im not sure is it good idea.

[small crane]

Im using* T110E5 because its an interesting tank icl
Its still feels good even after nerf and yeah most of my E5 gameplay relies with Reactive Armor

Why dont they nerf Chieftain instead 😏
Also my opinion about T57
Its weak tbf the front armor just very troll

[clear shuttle]

you get more dpm for those slight nerfs..

[final warren]

Why are they buffing these heavy tanks? They should just be getting a straight nerf along with the stronger heavy tanks. And the sherry is getting a buff?? What about the other light tanks that need it more??

This seems like a terrible decision. I really hope that this is just a small part of the list of changes

[leaden elm]

because it's a collector, a nerf-able version premium tank
WG once said they won't nerf premium tanks, so collectors were built

[delicate folio]

E5 was universal for a long time, now we want it to have active turret gamestyle 👀

[spiral locust]

Okey so someone meant smtg like this, copy that

[faint sandal]

sheridan is nerf

[small crane]

WG will make every heavium to be hulldown meta in 2030 😭

[final warren]

Yes but they are buffing it as well, that tank really doesn't need compared to other light tanks. Do you play ratings? Do you see all the sherries that are there? Do you see the play style that is used for sherries? The view range nerf isn't good, sure, but getting a gun handling buff in return is a good trade, and arguably the sherry is getting more of a buff than a nerf. Why not buff other light tanks that actually need it?

These are not good balancing changes. They don't address the problems in tier X, and ignore the tanks that really need buffs (mediums and lights)

[clear shuttle]

sheridan view range nerf seems reasonable ig, in a way it dosent make sense for a 560 alpha mobile tank to have the best view range in the entire game (i think)

[grand sluice]

And sheridan missile should be completely banned... that thing can shot at your tank from above without show itself at all... at very least the missile goes "slow" but it´s impossible to fight back with a heavy/slow tank or TD.

[ornate warren]

I hope the hull armor change wont be way too big otherwise I m expecting another variant of concept 1b.

I personally always liked and played this tank as an agressive frontline assault tank, where you really have fun when you know the design of the tank, especially facehugging will always be my favorite part on the E5. I m just hoping that the hull armor nerf wont go too much and nerf it to a state where its even weaker than its non pbr front layout

Also, theres recently a huge interest on turning versatile tanks into single simplified playstyle as I observed during my entire play time, its weird.

@spiral locust I dont think it will effect the entire game in a good way even tho I also want E5 to be something agile.

[thorny timber]

Bad idea,the sspeed boost is what gave the e5 the broken role in the first place because it had a speed of a medium and was suprisingly able to play as an active heavium even by a 30%

[safe ocean]

it only appears in fun modes

[stone drum]

Well the point is it's actually an edited photo for satirical purposes.

[remote oriole]

https://na.wotblitz.com/en/news/updates/vehicle-changes-6-9/
But WG actually said exactly that

[civic turtle]

i agree on the american tank updates

[thin oyster]

🤡

[sweet skiff]

🤡

[rough sandal]

Universal with the lowest DPM on an 120mm? how?

[dim ibex]

Bro you realise sheridan is getting nerfed and its still bad and you are agreeing with that 🤡 ?

[civic turtle]

yes, i agree . yes i agree to the updates. im okay with it

[orchid grove]

Sheridan nerf is literally the one good thing in the changes

[fierce crag]

Sheridan actually take advantage in its alpha damage
In this reloading speed,it's really a good tank,isn't it?
What is really bad is WZ-132-1

[cedar remnant]

I don't quite understand these changes being made to the E5. The buffs certainly are very nice, but why can't we just have a nice, well-rounded jack of all trades HT instead of just switching over to this complete hulldown monster meta, we already have several HT and even MT lines that end up with these tanks that are stupidly good at going hulldown, and that's not to mention the premiums that fit into that category as well. The E5's a fun tank as is, it's nice to have it's flexibility as a jack of all trades, master of none rather than it being another hulldown focused heavy.

[terse thorn]

Wtf they make Concept 1B become more weaker.. The worts change to american tank

[plain dew]

They haven’t even specified how much they decreased the speed yet. Plus the DPM is being improved

[foggy lantern]

Will USSR be rebalanced? 🤨

[dim ibex]

Any guesses which german tanks might get changes?

[queen geyser]

all of them

[remote oriole]

All tier ten tanks will be changed, WG only announces the changes nation by nation

[hearty steeple]

It's handled better this time imo than last time when they did rebalance where they announced all the changes at once. Made any kind of discussions except for the most popular tanks difficult

[terse thorn]

Yeah i hope so.. WG always touch that tank when balanced coming

[raven ibex]

What u guys think about the changes of E4???

To my mind, the E4 is ok tbh, i have more fun with it than any other tier X.

[wet niche]

E4 is op

[tame zephyr]

WG be like: It's already in the game.. Deal with it 😂

[upper jolt]

German tank balance changes should be out soon. Hope they don’t nerf the Maus again.

[scenic apex]

E4 is just becoming a generic heavy tank now
After they nerfed the pen and buffed the armor it was going in that direction but now changing the shell loadout to APCR/HEAT/HE is definitely making it a heavy tank now
I don’t get why they needed to nerf the alpha by 10, they could have increased the reload if they wanted to nerf the DPM

[stone drum]

Lol... no.

[thorny timber]

I hope the others will be rebalanced properly,the last thing I want to see is an e100 having more traverse than a batchat.

[tame basin]

Is this one of the worst balancing lol

[sacred hollow]

why concept 1B wil get such a change? reserve tracks, its pointless practicly on tank where gamestyle is hull down not sidescraping. And you want nerf evrything good about the tank in exchange for uselles mechanic. 🤔

[rough sandal]

all those changes are not done with common sense

[halcyon matrix]

It's not really generic though.

Generic heavies are hull down heavies. E4 has a funny cupola so even if you somehow use the gun depression you get penned there. The alpha is higher than most and the hp is still quite a bit lower.

The idea behind the previous buffs was to make E4 more heavy like. That's the entire point.

[loud radish]

OK, guys... I've just seen the changes to the T10s.... I'm confused.
I've got the impression that the only drinkable thing on the list is the sheridan nerf, and that's not all.
What do you think?
Personally, I'm afraid of what they're going to do with the Germans (please don't touch my E50m, it hasn't done anything).

[thorny timber]

A bad feeling about jageroo getting wrecked by a big nerf,probably just a possibility

[sacred hollow]

im just dont see point to change good performing tank like concept and others, it looks like somone making this changes just to be or he dont playing the game, no one se how SVM CC-64 is practicly inpenetrable eaven for tier IX tank destroyers when on hulldown.
Im not eaven starting about autoloaders on tier X

[stone drum]

On all the tanks they very intelligently did not detract from the tanks core strengths and instead weaken supporting factors.

Overall you have to give WG credit.

[scenic apex]

My idea of a “generic heavy” is just a heavy with good armor and gun, it doesn’t need to specialize in anything

I don’t like these changes because we already have so many other heavy tanks that specialize in certain areas and others that don’t as much
The E5 was a really good general heavy that happens to be pretty good at hulldown, Type 71 now just seems like a decent all rounder that can go a little fast
So why does E4 need to be like a heavy? It was already special as a kind of heavy with a big gun and easily exploitable weakspots, but now WG is just buffing the armor, making the cupola trolly and taking away more of the uniqueness it had

[stone drum]

I mean e5 is getting basically a straight upgrade, I don't know why people are protesting it so much, it's literally the e5 basically every 40%er player asked for.

[scenic apex]

yeah, everyone wanted a DPM buff, and E5 is getting it
all at the cost of some hull armor

[thorny timber]

No one's complaining except people who either don't want e5 getting spammed in tourneys which it probably won't be since it's not all powerful without hulldowning or people who enjoy playing 400 alpha with 10 seconds for the whole match in the same spot of the maps.

[loud kelp]

Buff the 132, 140, 260, and all T8 tech tree meds

[plain wagon]

Please tell more information about how they are going to be buff and changed and the reason why they need buffs? You can't just say that and expect someone to speak for you

[loud kelp]

I wasn’t, the 132 is the worst preforming T10 light for everyone, even good players. The 260 is very lackluster, no one playes it, worst T10 heavy by far all it has is an OK gun but the e6 is better in every way. The 140 is a way worse 62a, that’s why no one plays it. And all T10 tech tree meds are average at best such as the Pantera and the Pershing. The Indian Panzer, Tvp VTU, Panther 2, T44, STA 1, and others are just plain bad. They don’t even perform compared to all of the premium medium tanks that are over powered. Many come to mind such as the Chinera, Bourrasq, Progetto 46, Obj 274 a (I think that is what it’s called), and many others. Only 2 of them can even slightly compete with the premium versions.

[plain wagon]

I can understand the teechtree meds that they are worse than any premium mediums. That is how WG works, they have to release more OP tanks to make more money, which directly powercrept other tanks. Buffing them will be nice if WG is ready to make a rebalance for tier 8 like tier 10 they did.

[unique burrow]

At least hope, it doesn’t back fire

[plain wagon]

Yeah, I think med tier 8 needs a serious buff and rebalance all of them

[twilit crystal]

Pershing isn't average, and the Indien Panzer isn't terribad

[granite pebble]

You know I'm not gonna lie if the 260 just got a dpm buff, buff to it's HEAT, and got it's base round changed to AP it'd be perfectly fine imo

The mobility is what keeps the tank fun and it getting an armor buff would make it even more oppressive to mediums than it already is

@tame basalt not yet, and I'm hoping they dont do anything except bring it's stats up whenever they do change it

[stone drum]

Yes premium mediums like Fcm 50t, AMX cdc, T25 pilot 1, and T-34-3 are truely broken, op meta defining tanks.

[granite pebble]

He also called the 274a OP like it isn't just a decent tank at best, I guess the Type 59 is OP too?

[tame basalt]

The 260 got a buff?

[loud kelp]

Yea, most T8 tanks in the tech tree are not even competitive compared to the prems, only good T8 tech tree tanks are the Isu, Emil 1, SMV CC 64, T49 and a couple others that I cant remember the names of. It’s actually sad how unplayable T8 is if you are not running a premium or one of the tanks I listed

[humble depot]

You didn’t even notice the sarcasm, did you?

[orchid grove]

?? Outside of the 2 shell autoloaders, at this point, most of the best tier 8’s are tech tree. A lot of tech tree tanks are also the worst, but still, you have powerhouses like Caernarvon, T32, M26, SMV 64, and a lot of the lights are really nice too

[real bison]

nah you did not just call the VTU bad

The VTU, if given a gun depression buff, would probably become the top tier 8 tech tree MT overnight

you get good everything, and the only downside is the current -6 degrees it has

@loud kelp no armour is in no way a downside, plus, its got average DPM, which doesnt matter, since more often that not, it trades, which renders DPM useless

also note that it has 225 pen on standard, meaning that you can reliably pen a Chimera with standard, which quite a few tier 8 MTs actually cant do

[fringe quest]

Type is great with me

[granite pebble]

I wasn't saying it was bad, I was putting it in the same category as the 274a of just being a decent tank

[loud kelp]

It’s awful, almost no armor. Bad dpm

[final warren]

But they ruined it by buffing its aim time lol

[viscid roost]

Sheridan was fine the way it was, it didn’t need the view range nerf, i don’t know why wargaming is doing these useless things, just leave tier 10 alone for once

[real bison]

in no way was a mobile phantom TD that could outspot you was fine

its literally a 15m drop, and now you get better aimtime

its literally a buff at that point

[loud kelp]

Ong, we don’t need a mega T10 rework every year

[mortal falcon]

We kind of needed it, since 9.1 was terrible.

[clever musk]

Buff BT-7 art., i don't care about anything else

[jade cargo]

kaboompro#0 has been warned.

[twilit crystal]

yeah the best IS tank is the 53tp as well

[azure marten]

I agree, give it 150 AP damage and 200 HE damage (and lengthen the reload to balance out the dpm)

[unique burrow]

Bro! The Tvp VTU, does per shot around 300 damage per shoot, more the most meds at it‘s tier, also you should remember it‘s a singel shoot gun, what gives it a lot Dpm, also the armor profile is quit good if you angle it, and it doesn’t need armor, since it‘s a support tank, and not a front liner

[stone drum]

Yeah, no it already can't penetrate à fair share of tanks rear, it definitely doesn't need a dpm nerf

[glad cove]

The obj 260 is not good and the armor it features leaves it pretty easy to deal with and it also can't deal with gun depression dependant situation

[burnt venture]

Tier 8 meta is absolutely insane nowadays.

It used to be that strong tanks were eventually nerfed, the latest example being Emil I. But since the Emil I, they've completely given up on actually nerfing new meta tanks, and instead just replaced them with even stronger meta tanks.

We got three premium two-shot autoloaders, T77, GSOR, and Borrasque which basically stand on top of their respective tank classes.

Then we get 53TP and the SMV 64 which just completely outclass everything else. The 53TP is basically on the same level as an M103, it's ridiculous.

These tanks not only break balancing, but also make everything else look hilariously weak. It's no surprise that people complain about how "weak" new premium tanks are nowadays. Cuz next to these tanks they look like tier 7s lol

[granite pebble]

The armor doesn't need to be changed, the entire selling point of it is the amazing gun handling and mobility, why not just buff up what's already strong about it rather than improving something that it really doesn't even rely on to begin with.

It's easy to do good in the tank as it stands from the mobility and gun alone, just buff the gun to where it feels even better to use and it'd be a perfectly fine tank

[stone drum]

Ehh, while GSOR is certainly à good tank, your exaggerating just how good it is.

[void siren]

GSOR... isn't that great
t77 has its weaknesses
SMV 64 is slow and is the most easily circled tank in the game - its also the most overpowered out of these four
53tp is overpowered until you press 2
Bour is a bore - but it is awesome

my least favorite part about the bour is the fact it has the armor to withstand he. Like why???

[queen geyser]

Bour top of medium tier 8 tanks KEKW wrong game mate

[stone drum]

T77's only weakness is its Traverse speed.

Also 53tp has a strong turret against gold while also going à ridiculous 44kph.

@queen geyser its tied with a few other mediums for that spot.

[main tulip]

53TP is the most overpowered of those 5 tanks. Unlike the SMV, it's fairly quick, has a massive HP pool, and has higher alpha with tungsten.

[azure marten]

What I meant was, since the damage per shot would increase, the reload would have to be lengthened so the dpm stays the same. Basically, just revert it to pre-nerf status. Besides, I wouldn’t mind a longer reload if it had higher damage per shot.

[vagrant zephyr]

53tp..? Competitor for one of the best t8 heavies

[stone drum]

Because talking about game modes is explicitly prohibited in this channel, with a stated penalty of a 30 day ban.

[azure marten]

I don’t understand the BT-7 art was nerfed in the first place, the only good things about it were the speed, damage and HE pen. Didn’t have any armour (still doesn’t), had horrible gun handling and velocity (still misses half its shots) and wasn’t very common (still isn’t). So I’m not sure why wg thought it was too op when we have tanks like the KV-2 and smasher that can destroy other tanks in one hit instantly. The 5.5 changes indirectly nerfed the BT-7 art anyway due to all the armour buffs and HP buffs, so it’s a lot less effective nowadays, and I think that would be true even if it wasn’t nerfed.

T82 also needs a buff, the gun is absolutely atrocious and the HE is utterly useless unless you’re firing at another t82. Even the BT-7 art is better.

That reminds me, since the T18 is outclassed by everything nowadays, at least give it a few more millimetres of armour or something as a redeeming factor.

[loud kelp]

Mb, I forgot that one. But most are not even playable such as the Ferdinand, Sta 1, Canervon, The T8 for Foch and the Batchat, many many many tanks are just obsolete because of power creep.

[queen geyser]

Caern is actually tier 8 tourny meta idk what u on about, last week I played with a friend double Caern in 2vs2 and rolled over the enemies, in the second game they wanted to counter us and guess what they picked ? Caern AX, so we just rolled over them again

The caern is a very great tank, and many more tier 8 tech tree tanks are great aswell, the only class that rly suffers are mediums, tier 8 TT mediums arent really that great but it got better with recent patches, indien, Cent I, Pantera etc are rly playable now and solid options

[clear shuttle]

tbh apart from its lack of pen and maybe its lack of turret armour, the obj 260 isnt insanely terrible as many say it, its just as you mentioned, gets out classed
like why use a 260 when a 113 does everything it does but better
why use a 260 when a T95E6 doss everything it does but better

[stone drum]

AMX AC 48 & AMX-13 90 are both decent.

@twilit crystal LOL, of everything you could pick about it...

[twilit crystal]

T77s accuracy is disgusting

[drowsy plaza]

It’s hard to take you seriously if you bash the Caern.

[rotund oyster]

i dont see the strvk nerf section

[tacit pelican]

I want to see strvk nerf because it’s pretty annoying. People keep saying don’t nerf the strvk is because it has so much advantage compare to other heavies or medium tanks. It can almost replace every single medium in the tank

[stone drum]

I think this nicely explains the problem with blitz. A player who has played for two months should not be in tier X... seriously WG, that's how you prevent players from staying (and spending money).

[void siren]

To be fair the person who buys Strv k crates has already become wg’s ideal whale - they don’t need to stay

[granite pebble]

Alright I'm ngl id rather run 260 rather than 113 just because of how insanely smooth the 260's gun is and how much faster it is. It's a lot more fun to play imo

[stone drum]

If they gave obj 260 .1/.1/.1(or .05) handling, 1800 shell velocity, 340 heat, and like 3150 dpm it would be perfection.

[void siren]

ayo what its still a heavy
has no right to have as smooth gun handling as it has even now

[teal crystal]

Caernervon is insane, highest dpm heavy balanced by terrible armor and decent speed

[clear shuttle]

thats fair

[granite pebble]

Do you realize how many other tanks you are saying should have nerfed gun handling then if you think the 260's handling is too good?
The armor shouldn't be buffed very much aside from making the upper plate stronger and the lower part of the turret, the mobility shouldn't be nerfed, and the gun shouldn't be nerfed either. 260 is basically the poster boy of what a balanced heavium is

Feel like everyone is out here forgetting that the S.Conq is sitting at .12/.12/.1

[clear shuttle]

yeah and neither does the concept 1B but here we are

[teal crystal]

Maus should be buffed because that thing has been powercrept so bad it makes heavies look anorexic compared to it

give it 15cm since realism in this game is a joke

[clear shuttle]

it needs another armour buff/rework imo, i dont play maus and havent played it in ages so i could be wrong about what needs to be buffed on it

[stone drum]

I'm sorry, but that is a pure aids take.
.17/.17/.1 isn't even that impressive for a tier X heavy.

Also simply because something is a heavy doesn't mean it should have trash handling.

[nimble zodiac]

WG doesn’t care about 5.5 tanks anymore. They don’t want you to use them. They wanted streamlined tech trees so new players don’t feel overwhelmed.

T18 is fine. Best DPM and accuracy in class, and has the second most mobility, despite being the most armored. Same top speeds as the most mobile tank in class, too.

[granite pebble]

No, just do what PC did and buff it's alpha and Mauschens alpha to like 490, or even 500

[crimson dagger]

The only two balance changes which are in favour of balance are the e3 and e5 (I guarantee that was a fluke) apart from that the upcoming balance changes are atrocious. Really annoyed that wg seem to forget for the most part “balancing”.

I have to say the new philosophy of balancing like I said at the start is not actually “balancing” anything. More so it’s the opposite and it will make the game less learnable if you change tanks all the time or “periodically” as wg stated.

Quite frankly you’ve alllost the plot and forgotten how to make this game any good.

[thorny quartz]

I see many angry words in this chat ! If this balancing then i dont know , give to fv 183 1500 alpha , give to JG more armour , give to T57 6 shells and more armour etc sure all will be happy then and then we can say UNBALANCED tanks lmao

[granite pebble]

E4 change was good, if you ever even played the E4 then you should've expected a nerf coming from how insanely good it was.

Sheridan was deserved, it's got a TD gun and can spot for itself.

T57 is literally insane rn and still has the clip consumable.

The concept 1b change can't be judged since we literally don't have the numbers for it. The reverse speed could literally be changing by 1 while it potentially gains like 200 extra DPM.

Yoh change is literally just a buff to it's otherwise useless mechanic.

M60 became... Faster for some reason? I mean okay

The Patton change is literally the only genuinely bad change

The E6 change was also pretty bad I'm ngl, the tank was already dominating mediums

certain brain dead tanks get nerfed

"WAHHHHH game bad, game devs think me stupid! OP tank got nerfed so devs MUST think me stupid, well I'll show them, I'll write angry messages that they will never actually pay attention to because there's literally 0 intelligent criticism!!!!"

Good lord dude.

[ancient rampart]

E4 didn’t need anymore nerfs to it’s penetration or nerfs to it’s alpha makes no sense to reduce it by 10 points
The tank was entirely fine post buff

[crimson dagger]

Generally, personal opinion is a secondary factor to actual game balance.

From a competent perspective;

XM551 Sheridan is fine as it was.

The T110E4 did not need the change as it already had some love last update, which put it in a decent space.

The T95E6 was a bad change. If they were going to balance that tank properly,
they’d need to be asses it after the entire game was rebalanced as it’s considered a class based anomaly.

the T57 Heavy isn’t insane by any means, it’s armour model is somewhat inconsistent due to bad armour model design. (PBR also somewhat damaged this tank.)

The M60 was unnecessary and was always on par with it’s Patton counterpart which sadly, wg ruined when they switched it to PBR.

The M48 Patton change was pointless considering they already stuffed the tank previously. If they actually balanced the Patton again, they’d re introduce the pre PBR model/statistics and leave it as is.

As an overarching rule of thumb at the moment, discussing these balance changes, or any for that matter, can possibly be obscured because it’s discussing balance in a current objectively unbalanced game environment.

[clear shuttle]

i forgot what update the E4 changes were in but that update made it go from “you actually need 2 braincells” to “i can play this tank while being a 40%er” tank so a nerf was expected

[stone drum]

Giving maus a 15cm would be more realistic than most of the stuff WG does.

@granite pebble E4 doesn't have 120mm soft-stats, not even remotely. To claim such is just simply outright false.

[ancient rampart]

Except it was fine after it’s buff
The tumor on the roof is still insanely easy to pen and the lower plate is ammo rack city
There’s actually no reason to nerf the tank
Wasn’t any different than other strong hull down tanks

[granite pebble]

Literally the same update that made 50B actually a genuinely good tank, people fail to understand that it still had the same troll armor that E5 currently has while having an even stronger turret while also being a 15cm heavy tank that has 120mm soft stats and aim time, so it can just run refined gun and even have 120mm accuracy.

The changes to the E4 were genuinely justified, and quite honestly the tank isn't going to play much different at all aside from the fact that it's going to have worse overall pen performance and move faster.

[crimson dagger]

Regarding the E4, that’s a very good point actually.

[clear shuttle]

yeah, at first i didnt like how the sheridans view range was getting butchered but i remembered how annoying it can be in pubs and ratings, and that a 560 alpha light tank with spaced armour shouldn’t have the best view range in the game

@ancient rampart believe it or not, you can actually bounce stuff at certain angles on the hatch now, but to make it into a pseudo heavy that can roll up to the frotnline, fire a shot for 640, then go hide somewhere for the reload, then poke out again, i expected it to be nerfed/changed in some way eventually
on top of that it got a ✨dpm buff✨ last change
and as vindicator said, the only thing that’ll change about the E4 is its overall performance which will probably go down slightly, but not by a huge lot

[stone drum]

The viewrange isn't getting butchered, it's still going to be better than all except 1 light tank.

[twin egret]

it's not but k, so many other tanks[heavy tanks] have better turret-traverse accuracy than it for whatever reason. Even the vk 90, a rear-turreted tank, has better turret-traverse accuracy

[clear shuttle]

then what are people complaining about 😂😭
less view range for more accuracy and dpm, that seems fair

[stone drum]

People don't understand view range very well sadly.
For example batchat has 270 base viewrange & 30b (one of highest spot rate mediums) has 265, sheridan will still be rocking about 308m of viewrange after the changes.

[plain wagon]

BatChat had still been underdog tank for months lol.

[thorny timber]

Also funnily enough the brain dead tanks are only op when any player with more than 2 braincells use them,any newbie and it's generally a heavy camping without any reason or they won't contribute anything at all

[mortal falcon]

From "another competent perspective";

1. I agree with the Sheridan, and I think the "rebalance" was a flat-out nerf. But you can also see the point of how people would not want the high-alpha light tank to ALSO be the one with the most view range...

2. The T110E4 is ridiculously overpowered because the cupola became impenetrable. I think it's still overpowered following the upcoming changes, albeit just the tiniest bit weaker.

3. The T95E6 was barely changed (the tank is so fast Combat Stabilization is basically useless, it got a small DPM buff and mobility buff in exchange for small pen nerf). Furthermore, the tank already faced incredibly stiff competition in its niche of being a "heavium". Examples: Strv K - though people may disagree on this tank's performance in pubs; Concept 1B, significantly more armored; WZ-113, just flat out better in every way except gun depression; arguably the clipper tanks of TVP/50B, which go just as fast or faster with more valuable (for pubs) "burst damage" potential (people may disagree on this classification). You can also consider the roles of some of the stronger mediums and lights, and see how they encroach on this tank's territory; finally, the E5 change bullies the E6 out of this niche.

4. T57 changes literally are "reworked armor model" in addition to a full-clip reload nerf which was needed; Tier 10 clippers have been obscenely dominant since 9.1, and the T57 is no exception (outputs 1200 damage in around 3-4 seconds, with the added clip boost consumable).

5), 6) The M60 is just a better M48 because of its better armor profile and better gun depression. Differentiating the tanks more is a good thing imo, and it allows the tanks to have a more unique character (as opposed to the $35 tank just being outright better). If you disagree with this, go look at the stats and play them.

The overarching rule of thumb: if stuff is unbalanced, you should balance it. 9.1 was hideously unbalanced. Hopefully 10.3 fixes it.

[wanton marsh]

T110E4 buffed again!

[stone drum]

You got it the wrong way compadre, mediums & lights do not encroach upon e6's territory, it encroaches upon theirs.

Also of the clippers only T57, tvp, and maybe yoh/fv4005 could be considered dominant. The rest really arent.

@mortal falcon e6 is able to crush mediums with disgusting efficiency, it doesn't deserve to be a "medium hunter" infact the whole idea of a heavium that outright destroys mediums is incredibly stupid.

[clear shuttle]

yoh is dominant in ratings

[mortal falcon]

So they share the same niche, so my point stands. If a medium performs better than the E6, it's thus shoving it out...

And the other points stand too

[leaden flare]

Nah T57 deserved the nerf by all means
That tank is just stupidly good rn
Waaaay too good

[outer glen]

Will they touch 215b max speed
And remove the super consumables?

[crimson dagger]

Like I said, if the game which it is, is objectively unbalanced, discussing balance of tanks in an unbalanced environment can/will skewer what actually needs changing.

Hence why it’s important to look past personal preference, and even communal preference as it misses the actual problems most of the time. It’s reactive based upon individuals, not objectively viewed. WG can’t even get it right atm.

[mortal falcon]

What kind of logic is this? "Oh the current game is unbalanced... so we SHOULD NOT talk about balancing because that will lead to further imbalances!!!" I'm genuinely confused here. It's precisely because a game is unbalanced that it needs discussion about balancing changes and further rebalances. You seem rather critical of Wargaming when you don't even understand why balancing discussions are started to begin with...

Furthermore, your points about "personal preference" apply to your own criticisms: it's pretty obvious that everyone's going to have some view on how to "fix" a tank, how a tank is "lacking", and whether or not it's even bad/good. But what the goal of balancing here is that the tank, which has a certain playstyle/role born of its characteristics (i.e., a Maus should not be sniping and performs poorly at that role), should be able to fill its niche and be influential on the match, while also not squeezing other tanks OUT of said niche.

While that's an ideal, unfortunately the massive amounts of tanks, with overlapping roles, means that is not exactly possible. So the next best solution is to go to as close to that as possible: a meta WILL form, but it should not be dominated by just 2-3 vehicles; ideally, maybe like 6-7. And other vehicles should still be able to do fairly well without too much struggle.

Also, Wargaming has historically been VERY objective in their view of tank balancing. They go solely by average stats (damage, wr) and compare to other vehicles at the tier...

[teal crystal]

can the T 55A get slightly more gun depression?

Why does every T9 medium lack gun depression but heavies have tons of it?

[crimson dagger]

I’ll clarify as I have not explained clearly.

First point; What I’m saying is, take into account at all times that the game’s balance is far from objectively stable and has been for a while. This may help accurately deduce what the issues actually are, instead of a biased reactive opinion on certain tanks upon one’s own experience alone. The balance that is about to be bestowed upon us are majority negative for the overall game balance, thus driving the ‘balance’ even further from stability, if you compare to the most balanced iterations of the game across it’s entire lifespan.

Second point; the criticisms I make can be of personal preference however, these criticisms come from 9 years of directly accessible (second nature) knowledge-base and heavy engagement with this game. Additionally, I can differentiate my personal preference from an objective improvement, my personal preferences align with objective improvement of the game, thus me perhaps liking certain elements personally, yet knowing it would not suit the objective benefit.

Additionally on this point, I’d like to point out WG’s recently devised incorrect definition of balancing announced in the #dev_answers

Third point; It must be noted that people can do what ever they want in this game, despite personal irritation with players technically incorrect things, people can play whatever tank, however they wish. Yes, it’s not ideal for you or your team however, they can’t or shouldn’t.

Part 2 third point; it’s not impossible to balance the game in it’s entirety, if you have enough in-depth knowledge, you know what was, is and could work based upon this knowledge. It’s just down to one’s ability in implementing the knowledge accurately and for best purpose. Not delusional best purpose.

[mortal falcon]

Are you really sure it's majorly negative for the overall game balance? And how can I really trust that you're as unbiased as you claim to be, when your entire list of opinions regarding balancing changes are: "Unnecessary, bad, bad, unnecessary, pointless!" with little to no justification for your reasoning besides, "They already touched this before!!"

Furthermore, regarding third point: you misinterpret my argument. I'm saying each tank has a specific role, niche it fulfills and excels at. You can snipe in a Maus. You won't do well.
Also, it is impossible to balance the game perfectly. The idea of asymmetric balance, combined with map design, thus means that specific niches are more in demand and thus "metas" are formed. I hate saying this because it's annoying and really not conducive to arguments, but the phrase "You do it, then!" springs to mind.
I'm not saying Wargaming is necessarily great at balancing (more often than not, they aren't), but it's really important to recognize that asymmetric balancing is just about impossible to make "perfectly balanced", especially with many moving parts. Just look at League of Legends, Starcraft, etc...

If you actually want anyone to take your points seriously you need to offer constructive criticism, not complaints. Simply saying, "They just touched this x time ago, so it doesn't need more changes!" and complaining about balance changes without identifying why, specifically, it would make a tank overpowered/underpowered/etc. is sort of useless.
And saying that "a tank was just changed, it doesn't need changes!" brings to mind the introduction of the Sheridan line and the T92E1 being ridiculously broken, the introduction of the Helsing, the introduction of the 140, the introduction of the Type 71, so on and so forth.

[crimson dagger]

In response to your last two points on the previous; “Meta” is formed due to issues with player ability to utilise tanks that aren’t “OP” for effective purpose. Also balance changes which favour tanks and make them over powered will make majority of the player-base gravitate towards it because it’s easier. Doesn’t always mean it’s better.

Your final point: WG did used to do this better however, statistics need to be interpreted on a multi-level basis not just purely off the numbers. Nowadays it’s almost nonexistent as it’s shows in the body of work they put out e.g. present day World of Tanks Blitz.

Reply to your new message:
I gave the short version of why they are negative/positive as majority negative is correct due to 2 being initially marginally positive and the rest being unnecessary or negative, granted I did not go into full depth regarding the issues, but that does not detract the fact I see most of the issue almost straight away.

If I were to go into full depth on each balancing change it would be a lot of paragraphs as we’ve done here with little to no guarantee of it being taken seriously. Hence why I provided the ‘shorthand’ version of it. Perhaps I’ll put a “contact me for more in-depth explanation” in the future posts but I highly doubt anyone will.

In response to the “you do it then” I would actually enjoy making this game better when I can, however I’m already extremely busy and I utilise my spare time to try and help. Which is why I’m here talking with you.

[limpid fulcrum]

They better buff the E-100s 128mm

[mortal falcon]

A meta is less "player ability" and is more "capabilities of a tank". You don't roll walk into the Olympics crippled in both legs, that's what the Paralympics is for. Similarly, competitive teams will use the best possible tanks. The ideal balance is to have numerous vehicles occupying that "best possible tank" tier, thus ensuring a diverse meta. And NOT through paywalling tanks, of course

[crimson dagger]

I could go in depth on what actually makes a truly skilled player but that’s a whole other story. Short answer ‘meta’ (also being an obscure usage of the word) is born from a lack of tank diversity and balance. It’s the safe card not the skill card so to speak

A better way to put ‘meta’ is current commonly used overpowered tanks.

Or just; overpowered tanks.

[mortal falcon]

So we agree on the definition. And a truly skilled player is someone who can consistently win and do high amounts of damage (Tier X ofc, since that's the "competitive" tier). Think that's easy to define

[twilit sage]

Does your vk has the aiming time of a fv215b? Its accuracy? I don't think so, I have over 800 games with the fv so I know what I'm talking about

[twin egret]

yup, it's called calibrated reticle

jokes aside, though, the FV215b needs better on-movement stats

[crimson dagger]

Yes, ‘meta’ is based on tank characteristics/balance, hence why it’s very unbalanced, as ‘meta’ wouldn’t exist to the same extent in a balanced game. The intertwined issue is that’s not a good thing, unfortunately a fault of the player-base seems to be always gravitating toward ease and sacrificing skill, indulging in a fun tank is different to being lazy in an overpowered tank.

Second point regarding player;
Consistency as a general yes, however a skilled player is more than a high damage dealer and winner, it’s not just about what the numbers show. There is more to it than what you’ve stated.

[mortal falcon]

Oh no, that's literally all there is to it (player point). For pubs, at least. Comp has a different skillset that is more teamwork/awareness oriented, sure. So they're separated - a good pub player may not be a good comp player.

[queen geyser]

The E6 is atm alr one of the best heavies in my opinion because of its flexiblity, I mostly talking about random battles, if you are a fairly decent player, the E6 is in my opinion on of the best tanks to play for winrate, the tank is really flexible, and can dominate mediums with ez, u got speed, HP and dpm, if you think you can brawl against a E6 as a medium u will probably outraded, outdpmd and easy penned due to high heat pen, its kinda weird to buff it

the combat stabilization is actually huge for the tank, but understanding this is far more complex then: Tank is fast=meachnic useless

[twin egret]

You know it's really cool that you have 800 battles, but uh, I have nearly 3 time more battles in it than you do 💀

[crimson dagger]

Perhaps I misunderstood your response, But that isn’t all there is in what makes a skilled player.

Competitive is essentially high-level skill based, it’s surprisingly not that different except you know the teams you’ll possibly come up against. (sometimes, if we consider all tournament types.)

However, esports/competition is where the ‘meta’ seems to be… you see the problem with the competitive scene which is supposed to be skill based using ‘meta’ all the time?

Like I said earlier all these issues correlate with one-another in different manners.

[mortal falcon]

Okay, I enjoy it, and maybe I overstate its position (still a fine-performing vehicle). But I'd still rather be in a 113. The buffs proposed help make it stand out more: better dpm, better mobility. Always welcomed.

Any MT will lose a straight 1v1 brawl against a heavy tank, barring significant brain damage from one of the players. This has been true since the global HP buff for heavies. Not exactly a fair comparison. I think it's more valid to compare it to other heaviums for this scenario, where it starts to disappoint.

Combat stabilization is pretty pointless for the tank outside of rocking back and forth while hulldown. And if people are missing that giant tumor of a cupola, that's pretty sad.
Again, it's really not nearly as difficult to figure this out as you make it to be. Very simple: how often are you under 15km/h (but still moving) and shooting? The answer: ONLY when you're peeking small distances, because the tank accelerates so fast that you often go over 15km/h when peeking.
Of course, stabilization v. no stabilization is obviously better. It's nice to have. But it's frankly marginal in its benefit.

[twilit sage]

Thats cool, but seeing your stats with it doesnt surprise me with your statements towards this tank, even though you seem to play it much better than the average playerbase

[queen geyser]

If you playstyle is driving in 50km around the map and yoloing the first person you see then yes, then combat stab is useless I understand your point completly, If you want to know why I think combat stab will break this vehicle, slide in my dms, 10min slowmode is pooop

[twin egret]

Is there anything better than insults? either drop the argument or respectfully talk it out. I'm sorry that I reject your opinion for that matter, but I clearly have more experience and time with the tank than you initially thought.

hell, it was my first tier 10 if you want an explanation

[twilit sage]

So you are basically making all this up because the fv215b has worse turret traverse dispersion than "the vast majority of heavy tanks at this tier"? Must tell you the it has one of the best, if not best aiming time for any t10 heavy tank. And I don't think you are playing this type of tank just for his turret traverse dispersion, sure it's a stat like any other, but we are talking about a type of tank that doesn't move that much (with some exeptions tho). Also you cannot have a perfect tank. The gun of the fv215b is the last thing I'll change on it. If it really needed a buff, it would more be on the side armor to make it better on flat maps.

[clear shuttle]

i can vouch that alopecoid has more experience in the 215B than you

[unique scaffold]

« revised gameplay at Tier X »
Didn’t that happen not a long time ago??

[twilit sage]

Last year iirc

[twin egret]

I mean the Super Conqueror has better on-movement dispersion I might add. Do you think the FV215b is more deserving of better on-movement stats? Also why are you adding aim-time to the matter? My argument is purely on 'on-movement dispersion' stats. While those stats do dictate the amount of time of you're aiming for after movement, I'm completely focusing on the aspect of just on-movement dispersion. Why does almost every heavy tank simply have better turret movement dispersion for?

[winter lynx]

Wargaming nerds to stop rigging these matches. I got into a match against Ai bots and got absolutely destroyed 34 seconds into the game , no I don't have skill issues, it's the fact wargaming Riggs marches and it's bs

[plain wagon]

Haiz..... At this point, rigged matches just exists for players dying soon to cope and have excuses

[twilit sage]

My point with the aiming time is that, if you take for example a vk 90 (tank that you took to compare it with the fv215b) and a medium tank is spotted on your right side, you rotate your turret to shoot it, maybe you will have a better turret traverse dispersion, but the aiming time on the vk90 is 60% worse than the fv's. It means you are going to spend more time aiming and also, while the accuracy is good, you can miss due to a wonky shot. Now same situation with a fv215b, it has better turret traverse speed, and a much better aiming time, that means you're going to spend less time aiming and also the gun of the 215b is more accurate. Ofc here RNG matters but in general both tanks will land a shot.

Now, about why all the other heavy tanks have better turret traverse dispersion, the gun of the fv215b outperforms them in lots of different stats, so it has to be worse in a parameter than other tanks, this is called balancing.

[winter lynx]

It's really annoying playing this game for 3nressons. #1 cheaters, #2 rigged matches band #3 idiot team mates

[twilit sage]

Then stop playing it

[plain wagon]

Well, man, I have no reason to convince you that this game doesn't have many good players and the mm aren't rigged.

[granite pebble]

Amx 30 1er has 10 degrees wdym

[twin egret]

Centurion 7/1 has 10 degrees wdym

[clear shuttle]

standard B has 10 degrees wdym

[queen geyser]

m46 Patton has 10 degrees wdym

[unique scaffold]

make the smv cc 64 autoreloader gun deal 400 avrg damage per hit also allow add attachmetnts . make the vz 55 line from t8-t10 have autoloader thats all i need

[stuck acorn]

AMX 30 1er and Type 61 have 10 degrees wdym?

[twilit sage]

Imagine needing gun depression

[unreal anvil]

because that's a t55 basically an upgraded t54...

[vast eagle]

When can I get the tanks that I bought years ago back to their original setup? Like the speed on the t2 light and the original amount of shots on the t2, t1e6, and t7 or at the very least bring back the 75mm for the leopard and replace it’s autocannon with it

[rare sigil]

T54 has more armor then 55A

[civic turtle]

i agree on the US balance

[unique burrow]

The tanks will probably never be that what you remember, a lot has changed to this, and they made them something different then when they where first interduced

[tough shoal]

defender mk. 1 is so broken, it can sit on a ridge and spam gold through the front of almost anything while bouncing everything with it's op turret

[chilly crane]

Explain yourself

[unique burrow]

But then it but even stronger, the tank almost one shoot the enemy, and if you give it more gun depression (while it‘s already good for a Russian tank), it would be broken

[humble depot]

He’s talking about real life.

[clear shuttle]

or he thinks the t-55 is an upgraded t-54 in game but dosent realize how their both nearly identical

[solid scaffold]

It's a tier 6, its accuracy with that caliber is considerably good. Your prem ap takes away like 60% hp of the same tier heavy while the penetration is not lacking at all.
It's a fun and balanced tank imo, i don't see it needing any buffs

[acoustic estuary]

The accuracy is fine wdym, it has the ability to one shot must t5, has good pen, can bounce shots if you wiggle, makes good credits. Idk what you are on lad.

[civic turtle]

is the balance updates arrive one by one? or they will show every nation then put the balance update?

[clear shuttle]

every nation then release them all in one update i assume

i mean thats what they did with 9.1, and their releasing each balance change weekly so we’ll see 🤷‍♀️

[acoustic estuary]

I doubt this. One by one i think.

[mortal falcon]

It is all in one update. Check #coming-soon

[civic turtle]

people of wargaming, where is the swedish crew voice. ive been waiting for ages where is it?

[remote blaze]

Buff Caliban has no mobility, no armor and terrible terrible gun handling. I'm enjoying kv2, kv1s and t49 but this tank is pain

[clear shuttle]

caliban is meant to have terrible gun handling, its literally a tier 8 183 but as a heavy instead of a td

[dense prairie]

Trust me U dont want a tank with good stats + that kind of gun

[fading crescent]

thats funny i have nearly 10 times that amount

[remote blaze]

It's better if it was TD at least you can hide and shoot but no you must Frontline with enemies heavy armor you can't hit most of the time. Believe me i have it and rarely use it even in fun modes because its harder. I won it from expo container

[final warren]

If you died 34 seconds into a game, or even 1 minute into a game, then that's a skill issue.

[unique burrow]

You forget, that it‘s a naval gun, means it also has quit good He, and the aim time isn‘t that bad, when you use the right modifications on the tank aiming shouldn’t be a problem at all

[queen geyser]

skill issue

[unreal anvil]

you might not know what iam implying, but what i mean is that's literally the same tank, both have the same armor and crew layout, why would he ask a gun depression buff on a literally T 54 chassis tank? Which is not know for its gun depression...

[rare sigil]

So you mean irl stats. That might be true but since we dont have same armor thickness despite it being irl practically the same you could also change gun dep by 2 degrees

[unreal anvil]

no the thing is, it literally is using the same armor layout, even if statically ingame the thickness is different, T 54 is still a tech tree counterpart of T 55a. What they should buff on the 55a is maybe the turret armor and mobility, for it to be on par with it's rank or against opponent tiers up or below.

[rare sigil]

But turret armor is okay on T55A give it some front armor like T54 so it can troll even if not in total hulldown position

[ripe python]

55a is a joke in comparison to t54

[rare sigil]

Its still fun and its premium

[unique scaffold]

50b just needs aim time buff, not accuracy
The accuracy is good when fully aimed but the problem is the poor aim time doesnt allow u to fully aim before u have to shoot

[fading crescent]

tbh t54 has better armor than t62a

[granite pebble]

Could also give the tank better soft stats on top of the aim time buff as well.

It can be HE'd in the side by literally everything it fights, it deserves to have an amazing gun

[ripe python]

It does *great gun

[lime wren]

Fix your damn match making

[stone drum]

Honestly I'm quite confident I could balance the game to a reasonably good point, as over 12 or so years of Experience with Wargaming products.

@mortal falcon I would gladly try to cook up some changes.

[mortal falcon]

Confidence is not competence. Go for it. List out, say, what you would do to the USA Tier X's to make them balanced.

[twin egret]

Make them more American

[mortal falcon]

We have a winner!

[burnt venture]

I love how M48, which is basically getting neutered next update, has that many thumbs ups, while E5, which is basically getting straight up buffed, has that many thumbs downs.

Classic example of how player feedback sucks if you just let anybody press buttons. No wonder heavy tanks keep getting stronger then lol

The average playerbase is dented.

[runic sinew]

Wait what

[main tulip]

yeah I don't understand that at all lol, in what world are the M48 changes good

[twilit sage]

Idk what's their obsession to nerf/buff the pen by like 4-8mm

[leaden flare]

all the dont nerf t57 ones over the last few days

[mortal falcon]

Grr! we HATE mediums!! wait WHY are you buffing heavies then omg ??

[limpid charm]

did smasher got a nerf?

[burnt venture]

There's what just looks like straight up unbridled hate for medium tanks rn lol

Last rebalance, there were base dispersion all across the board for a ton of tanks, with only VERY select tanks getting gun handling buffs.

This rebalance, it's looking like the focus is pen nerfs to "make games last longer". Which makes no sense at all because WG legit just gave all the meds AP as standard. The current M48 Patton now got AP as standard, but then gets the pen nerfed by like 7mm and then the alpha lowered.

So WG reduced the ability for everybody to hit weakspots, and now looks to be nerfing standard pen across the board, both which exponentially hurts mediums more and don't affect heavy tanks as much. Mediums rely heavily on hitting weakspots consistently AND shooting on movement to avoid taking damage.

WG designs tanks like 268v4, Mino, and Type 71, then goes around nerfing pen and accuracy? Like bruh it just looks like they want more premium rounds straight up

But surely M48 needed more handicaps while T95E6 becomes both faster and sneakier, has 3300 DPM, and can instantly aim fully upon stopping. That's really great balancing policy that won't cause even MORE tanks to have 1200XP ace bar lmao

[main tulip]

Looks like they want to make more people run calibrated, thereby reducing DPM across the board, as part of the "make games last longer" philosophy...

[burnt venture]

thing is calibrated doesn't even affect AP that much at all lol

It's literally just more premium rounds.

If we see a bunch of meds have AP pen nerfs, they might as well just return to having APCR lol

Like a lot of the improved pen will just go away anyway

[mortal falcon]

honestly i dont see the pen nerf making a super huge difference here because you still need to fire a ton of gold anyways, thanks to mino/type/etc. Maybe just a bit more now.

[vivid hinge]

I can't be the only one who thinks the IS-6 needs a buff, I feel like it should play like the IS-4 armor wise but its more like an IS-3 with an IS turret

[stone drum]

Pesky mediums circle me, too op!!!

They are nerfing medium standard probably because medium gold is borderline worthless, so instead of buffing medium premium pen they are taking the alternative route...

[leaden flare]

unless you run cali even med prammo does barely anything against smth like a mino as u still have to aim for tiny pixel weakspots

[stone drum]

Actually in a straight brawl some mediums (kpz 50t) can 1v1 certain heavies (kranvagn) outright and win with relative ease.

@burnt venture their was sardonic intent in that One of the highest dpm mediums vs one of the the lowest dpm heavies (with a reliably penned frontal plate).

And yes I'm aware that the medium is générally screwed, I was doing some (alot) of 1v1s with a Lorraine 40t vs à Vk100.01p, spoiler; Lorraine got stomped 8/10 times even when it dealt more than it's health pool.

[halcyon matrix]

Yes but in most games you aren't doing a 1v1, so these certain scenarios don't mean a lot. And a kran that is fully reloaded and not dead out of position should still win the 1v1.

The thing I don't get is why the M60 is not getting these nerfs. Even in its current state it's just a better M48 with less aim time better angled upper plate and more depression.

[stone drum]

You realize most heavies can do the exact same thing...

[burnt venture]

Even in those situations, the medium almost dies.

The HP differences are so massive that it takes a Kpz almost 3 more shots than the Kran to take out their respective targets. And this is before considering that Kran has an advantage in that it gets to do 1200 to the Kpz in the time it takes the Kpz to do 2 shots.

Mediums just dealing with heavy tanks even in a pure 1v1 (which doesn't happen very often in randoms anyway) is a pipe dream. The leeway for heavy tank players is so huge that even a very highly skilled medium cannot do much against an average heavy tank player without a team. The heavy tank in almost all engagements has enough wiggle room to fluff shots, sit there get farmed for a couple shots, and yolo in and can still win the flank.

If a Leo 1 pens every single shot on an E5 in a 1v1 HP trade, the Leo wins but has 200 HP left. That's the kind of HP that heavy tanks have, before considering the currently ludicrous combos of armor and mobility on certain tanks

Edit: If the Kran player has a brain, it takes 20 seconds for them to shoot their first shell twice, before unloading the clip and then killing the medium which has to take 45 seconds to kill the Kran.

[void siren]

That is true, but the leopard is never a fair comparison
An obj 704, a tier 9 td, can engage it and vaporize it in a “1v1”

The fact you’re using low alpha heavies does make the argument stronger tho

Oh yeah and the k-91 can just decide that a tier X med no longer has living permissions

And… tier 8 heavies can trade shots with tier X meds… and win.

[granite pebble]

Let's not forget the plethora of heavies that have medium DPM as well

[stone drum]

literally place something like an AMX-30b against say à type 71.
The medium has basically no chance of winning.

Now if we place some of the lower dpm mediums like Progetto, 30b, stb-1, etc against stuff like Strv k, Wz113, T95e6, etc thats when things become gruesome.

[void siren]

What about the wz-121, which has some alpha

I find mediums losing in trades to the Sheridan concerning and also a bit funny

Also the med hp problem is horrifying - difference between Sheridan and average X med is 100 hp

[burnt venture]

And we are seeing a BUNCH of armored TDs get HP increases as well. So this just feeds even more into the heavy meta. WG has basically started balancing TDs around heavy tanks as well. We've seen TDs across the board get HP buffs, traverse buffs, and have more and more alpha, pen, etc.

Dumbing things down works for heavy tanks and heavy TDs. It keeps the skill ceiling around the same (or makes it higher), with basically endless ways to raise the skill floor simply because you can just keep increasing armor or mobility in exchange for firepower without really changing much.

But the same thing doesn't work for meds. If you try to dumb down mediums it kills the skill ceiling, while the skill floor isn't raised enough to make it worth playing over heavy tanks. That's exactly what happened with last patch. They tried to dumb down the armored meds but their player numbers just tanked.

The "give and take" balancing also hurts meds a lot more than HTs. Meds are all-rounders which need almost EVERY part of their toolkit to work. You can't just buff part of them and then take away something else, because if you just take away any part of their well-roundedness it throws the entire tank's playstyle into chaos. The current 140, Progetto, and E50M are prime examples of this. Once swiss army knives, WG has turned them into these tanks with weird playstyles because they wanted to randomly emphasize ONE part of their gameplay.

Especially with HTs being so strong with such insanely versatile choices in gameplay, give and take balancing just kills mediums. Sacrificing anything on meds in the current meta, whether it be alpha, pen, mobility, gun handling, DPM, etc. kind of just decreases its playability against heavy tanks. Give and take balancing pushes well-rounded mediums into being more "specialized" tanks, which just ends up hurting them.

Literally find some balls and nerf heavy tanks.

[meager magnet]

Give super hellcat more shells please!!!

[stone drum]

By ONE part you were referring to hulldowning on a ridgeline while also being impenetrable to opposing mediums?

@burnt venture what If WG say, gave every medium reticle calibration?
with a special mechanic that gives it a 15s cooldown

[burnt venture]

In the case of some meds, yeah. like 4202, E50M, or STB just getting nerfs in exchange for the ability to go hulldown.

Like the give and take balancing takes a well-rounded med, and says "you're going to do only this now" while nerfing all the other things a medium should also be able to do. It literally takes away from what makes mediums mediums.

[orchid grove]

Every med is slowly creeping towards the exact same spot. Just a mediocre hulldown tank with mediocre accuracy, 340 alpha, and low HP

[main tulip]

I hate the 340 alpha part so much. And if they want to give meds diversity in the gun department, the easiest place to start would be buffing the pen on a select few of them.

Literally every class in the entire game has diversity in every department, except meds and their pen, because WG are allergic to changing that apparently.

[burnt venture]

Having 10 different alpha isn't diversity. It just creates more and more confusion and frustration when you have to go around memorizing 20 different tanks' alphas, then randomly get outrolled by someone with 10 less alpha than you, and then randomly killed by max rolls from a tank with some strange alpha with an equally strange max roll.

[winged barn]

Having not kept up with all of the patch buffs, i actually dont have a clue of what most of the alpha on tier 10s is now lol

[void siren]

They should have 310 they all have the same caliber

Sheridan should have 640 yes!!

Kpz should have 640 (it actually should)

[ebon lynx]

A true mess.
Mostly an ascending order of 10 by 10:
300 - 310 - 320 - 330 - 340 - 350 - 360 - 380 - 400 - 410 - 420 - 430 - 450 - 460 - 470 - 480 - 490 - 500 - 560 - 600 - 620 - 640 - 670 - 680 - 690 - 800 - 930

[fading crescent]

i feel like the wz-132 needs a gun depression buff and a module strength buff

[stone drum]

Should e4 have dpm?

@orchid grove, yeah e4 is à tank i barely understand tbh.
#1086670770509459567 message

[mortal falcon]

Yeah. It's a tank destroyer.

[winged barn]

E4 should be a hard armor counter.

Dpm not needed, just a gun that makes use of 100% of its dpm by autopenning

Just a tank to brutalize heavies. Complete overkill pen with meh dpm doesnt really hurt meds or lights, but actually can take on the dominant class.

[orchid grove]

No. E4 should go back to being an actual TD. Remove the armor, the HP, and the DPM, and it should just go back to being the turreted sniper that slams you with "screw you" levels of pen.

[void siren]

225, 310, 400, 460, 640 are meaningful
@orchid grove it’s a turreted td, why did it get stupid armor in the first place?

That’s across the tiers

[ebon lynx]

Yeah but there's no 225 alpha in t10

@orchid grove I guess the 9.2 E4 was probably in the best spot.

[main tulip]

E4 should be like a 268 that sacrifices mobility and camo for a turret, having a roughly on par, albeit very different armor profile.

@void siren that's the point, E4 shouldn't have much armor, just enough to keep it troll and force people to actually aim

[stuck acorn]

ahhh, good old days when every tank had either 310, 350, 400, 420, 460, 640, 800 or 930 alpha

It's in 9.1 when they actually started going crazy with those alphas for literally 0 reason

@void siren not really, both 350 and 420 are in the game since the very beginning, 350 wwas featured on M48 patton and E50M, while 420 on IS-8. Actually 350 alpha was much more popular on high tiers than 310 back in the days

[orchid grove]

Because WG big brain and made it a heavy tank with a triangle icon

Honestly, what I'd probably have preferred at this point is the old E4, but with 670 alpha in line with the E3, and a slight DPM nerf

[void siren]

268 doesn’t really have armor
@stuck acorn 350 and 420 foretelling what is to come

[stone drum]

@burnt venture
What would you think of à T57 with a 3s intraclip (and removed clip booster), but with a shorter clip reload and potentially higher alpha?

@main tulip I think random alpha numbers is generally a bad idea in my mind only 400 & 420 would be potentially suitable alpha numbers.

[ebon lynx]

In my head, higher alpha and T57 shouldn't be in the same sentence

[main tulip]

Give it a bloated turret and a 155mm with 500 alpha like the Foch, and call it T58 Heavy

[stuck acorn]

in my opinion T57 could be nice with like 3-3,5s seconds of intraclip and like 420-440 alpha, but quick reload. A gun similar to the K91, but leveld up to T10 standards. autoloader with long intraclip, but quick overall reload

Intraclip is main thing breaking it currently, not the DPM by itself. If you remove the ability to burst out very quickly, it should be pretty balanced

[stone drum]

In my eyes dpm is more important to the tanks character than the burst.

[burnt venture]

In order to have actually balanced autoloaders, there's two things to consider: the gun mechanics itself, and how it works in tandem with the other aspects of the tank.

The gun mechanics consist of three parts:

• clip reload (basically the DPM, but also controls the downtime of the autoloader)
• intraclip time (along with number of shells determines how fast the autoloader can do damage)
• clip damage (alpha x number of shells)

Most autoloaders have some combination of the three being upsides and downsides. For example:

• The Yoh's two guns: clip damage stays the same, but you choose between clip reload or intraclip time
• TVP: high clip damage with low-intraclip times, with a long clip reload
• IS-3 / T28 Defender: super high clip damage, balanced with long clip reload and intraclip times
• Astron Rex: high clip damage (for a med), so long intraclip times and low DPM

After analyzing the autoloader itself, you look at how the upsides / downsides pair with the other aspects of the tank. Sometimes, the platform is to blame for the problem:

• TVP may have terrible DPM, but the mobility + armor allows it to relocate, clip, and disengage faster than most mediums
• Batchat 25T has amazing DPM, low intraclip times, and a decent clip size paired with great mobility, but ends up struggling due to lack of gun depression on the platform and mediocre gun handling

The problem with T57 being too strong is that the autoloader completely lacks any kind of downside currently. It has insanely high DPM with low intraclip times and the clip damage is still high. Even though the platform is not the greatest, the gun itself is the entire problem. IMO it doesn't matter how bad the platform is, if the autoloader is too good it's still overcooked.

It depends on which item of the 3 you want to take away from T57's autoloader. Either way though that would make it decently balanced. WG has decided to hit the clip reload, which is fine by me

[winged barn]

I would say the bat struggles due to it trying to be a sneaky tank, but maps dont actually allow any stealth.

[nimble zodiac]

It struggles due to it being a light tank in World of Tanks Blitz

[twin egret]

What does 430 dmg? 450? 470? 480? 490?? 500? 620? 680? 690m?

[main tulip]

Object 777 and 752, Yoh, WZ-114 and Vz. 55, AMX M4 54, Minotauro, Foch 155, 114 SP2, T110E3, Object 268/4, respectively

[twin egret]

752?
Huh, interesting, I thought it was 420

[humble depot]

Ho-Ri

[winged barn]

Turretless tanks are automatically garbage.

[mortal falcon]

Name checks out