tank-balance-discussion

[quick lichen]

My work here is done

[wicked oracle]

Day 45 of asking wg to give the foch 155 640 alpha on the single shot gun

[proud panther]

i'm just sad that in the massive update that was focused on rebalancing the entirety of T10's they didn't use that to nerf the HO-RI's prammo damage from 545 to something like 490, when it's standard has 560. what's the point of shooting standard if you have the credits?

[mortal shore]

buff grille

[unique scaffold]

Is better go to T line or M ? (American)

[outer radish]

What?

Well Yoh is definitely better than E5

[unique scaffold]

T line like T29, T32 and others. Or M V Yoh, M VI Yoh...

[twin egret]

Ehhh I was thinking more like the KV-2R

Like on PC

[uneven narwhal]

Every bit of alpha makes a difference
Although 15 is a tiny amount, it stacks up

[proud panther]

Not enough to make me want to shoot standard, because for every bit of damage you lose, that is time you win because you don't have to aim for weakspots, you Can just go through most tanks's turret. It also prevents you from taking some shots, because you don't have to fully aim in, if the whole circle IS already inside of a grey zone. I'll take that over losing 300 damage for every 20 shells that pen

[winged barn]

Let's say you connect 10 shots
5600 vs 5450 damage.

Can bounce vs autopen
That extra 150 damage isn't nearly worth the risk of losing autopen

[uneven narwhal]

You don't have to aim at weakspots if you can already pen the entire thing with standard AP
It's already 310mm without CS; highest standard pen in the game unless I'm forgetting something
Why waste the 15 damage shooting at a side or a rear of a tank, or a light/medium?

15 isn't a huge difference but it isn't a problem for the HoRi, seems to be a pretty balanced tank

[twilit meteor]

i feel like the IS line needs a buff, like why is the aiming time on the IS-3 over 6 seconds with both vertical stabs?

[safe rapids]

Russian tanks
Get used to it

[nimble zodiac]

"This tank is clearly OP/UP"
"Get used to it"

See the problem?

[slender latch]

It's balanced for WG since not everyone can afford to load 40 prem AP on it.

[ionic kraken]

When will they nerf the TVP 50/51... It's one of the most infuriating tanks to play against.

[full token]

They’ve given it a nerf recently. Doubt another nerf will happen soon

[proud panther]

Yeah right, go Pen a hulldown Kranvagn/badger/E3/FV215B/SConq/60TP/the turret of an IS7/ with 310 ap Pen, you may have some weakspots, but nothing you'll hit reliably when you're further away than 150M
@slender latch and there lies the problem

[uneven narwhal]

if
I'm not telling you to go ahead and aim for a Kran's cupola
I'm saying there's no point in shooting premium AP if you are guaranteed to pen with standard AP

[stuck acorn]

it doesn't matter anyway. The problem isn't shooting with gold while still being able to pen with standard. The problem is that you can shoot with gold anyway basically whenever you want and do basically same damage as you would on standard. That's not how gold ammo is suposed to work

[autumn zodiac]

You are really complaining about Ho-Ri being over powered?

Let me guess, you were in Maus and a Ho-Ri penned you

It's still 545 and the vehicle doesn't have a turret, has flat armor all over, and is pretty tall

[uneven narwhal]

Basically this ^
Although it is slightly unconventional for prammo to have almost the same alpha as the standard while having higher pen, it isn't causing problems on the HoRi; it's pretty balanced
Why change a balanced tank

[next quail]

Ho ri= balanced change my mind

[stuck acorn]

i literally don't play heavies. They are dog---t noob/sweaty class usually unfun to play.

I never said ho-ri is OP. It's just breaking game's overall consensus preventing players from braindead gold spam. Nerf gold alpha to 490 and buff something else in return. For example they can make reload 0.5s shorter or something like that

[proud panther]

Never said it was overpowered, just saying it's prammo damage is stupid
"A sheridan is better than the Ho-ri if they have the same prammo damage"
And other funny jokes you Can tell yourself

[autumn zodiac]

So if that changes then just play Sheridan at that point

Will literally have nothing going for it then

I'm not getting the point

Why even make note of the prammo damage is supposedly it doesn't bother you

There is not a legitimate reason to bring it up otherwise

[stuck acorn]

Okay i don't see any point of this discussion anymore. You literally said that ho-ri with lower gold alpha and better reload = sheridan? Dude, just log into the game look at both tanks annd their stats and then say it again. Ho-ri will still have much better reload, accuaracy, gun stab and penetration. It will still be completly different than sheri just stop talking nonsense.

Good players will only benefit from this change anyway, as they can still reliably pen things with 310 pen and will get even better reload.

Only people that intentionally play the tank only to spam gold like idiots will perform worse after the change.

And 1 more thing - get good before saying anything

It's not even T7 lmao @nimble zodiac his stats come from SU-85B and crusader mostly, while avg tier is farmed at T49 with ridiculously low requirements on wn8

@autumn zodiac if you just play for fun, stop talking about things you have no clue about

I was talking about wn8 lmao. But when it comes to winrate you clapped it on angry connor, CGC, and Pz IV ankou so it doesn't change much lol

I'll move on, when you stop talking nonsense and argue about things you have no clue about

[proud panther]

The point is, having prammo that does 15 less damage on a 560 alpha gun is just sheer stupidity, nerfing that wouldn't even be game-changing, if you think nerfing HO-RI's prammo damage is going to make it useless and that "a sheridan will just be a better ho-ri",then you seriously have no idea what we're talking about, or you're being a troll about it. If it's the latter, you are very good at it. If it's the former, then c'mon dude, you're supposed to moderate this server and you don't even Scroll up a bit to get the entire context of the conversation, gg.

[nimble zodiac]

You fr just told a 63%er to get good

I get it, it's tier 7, but still

[autumn zodiac]

We really gonna try and stat shame someone who plays a game for fun?

Man that's just pathetic

[autumn zodiac]

My win-rate is higher than my win-rate in both crusader and SU-85b

They are actually dragging my stats down

Bro just let it go move on

I know you are salty a Ho-Ri killed you

It happens

[slate spruce]

Andrenaline really kicks in when a hori destroys your game while you are in hull down with kran.

Makes me want to grind hori as well, which I'm gonna do after getting these exp discounts from current in-game event

Time to give these players a taste of their own medicine 🙂.

Max out the crew to 100% using gold and take is straight to ratings and destroy people's game till i assure myself that they wont be able to do much with their left hp.

[stuck acorn]

i'm far from being salty. I just noticed a significant problem with the game balance. You are the one with butthurt here, because your favourite no brain tank could become less braindead to play

[autumn zodiac]

It's not even my favorite

My favorite is 4202

[proud panther]

Simple fact of the matter, if you say the Ho-ri has "nothing going for it" if the prammo damage gets nerfed, you probably have no idea about what you're talking about, once again.
Forget the fact it has the best Pen of the game on it's standard shells and prammo, forget the fact it has the best gun handling of all the T10 td's, and that it has the 2nd best aim time and accuracy of Any T10 td's, only beaing beaten by the grille.
Yep, forget all of that, sheridan is better in every way, no point playing the ho-ri, EXCEPT for the damage of it's GOLD SHELL, according to you
And nobody here ever said the Ho-ri is OP
It does, if something is stupid, should it be kept when it can be changed? Great game design amiright ? @nimble zodiac
Underwhelming alpha turns into average alpha if you compare it to other TD's prammo, which you should do, it's a prammo

[nimble zodiac]

Man, game unplayable because I encountered the single tank that could counter my complete hulldown gimmick

Ho-Ri isn't OP because of the pAP, it's just a meme because of it

Avg stats say Ho-Ri has 49.61%, with 2,025 damage per battle. That ain't OP at all. You're arguing for a tradition, not a balancing problem.

@proud panther if it isn't an argument that it's OP, then it has no place here. It's made to run around and pen things with underwhelming alpha 🤷‍♂️

[uneven narwhal]

Couldn't agree more with the last statement

[lean gate]

Day 33 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[twilit meteor]

i thought this was tank balance discussion not cry about it channel

[autumn zodiac]

This channel is intended to be

Yet somehow not always turns into "Angry and will stat shame others to prove a terrible point" channel

[proud panther]

Not stat shaming, just stating that a hori still has things over the sheridan even if it's prammo AP damage gets nerfed. It'll keep penning everything, just doing less damage than it's ap in a noticable way, if that's a terrible point, then you're just as stubborn as a mule

[autumn zodiac]

Not stat shaming?

Care to explain that earlier?

[proud panther]

ah, yes, i am @stuck acorn, for we, are the same person
seriously, talk about moderating if you think that two people that disagree with you are both stat shaming, even thought only one of them did so, but since the other agrees with him on something else, then he must be stat shaming me aswell.

[stuck acorn]

i never actually stat shamed you. i just said that you should get good before making some stupid points

I did that to prove my point.

my point was - he has no clue what he is talking about so he should shut and stop talking nonsense

Yes, having 63% statpadded at low tiers is bad. You can clearly see his lack of skill by looking at his T10 stats. On some of them he doesn't even get 2.5k avg lmao

That's why you never look only at WR

[nimble zodiac]

And proceeded to send his stats to the channel, making a very obvious implication

You said "get good", implying he was not good, and backing that up with stats. It's stat shaming, because you also draw the implication that the stats are bad

[twilit meteor]

your point being his stats are bad?

ok so you think he is bad at >60%, what are your stats then bud?

lol now you stat shamed again... kinda got baited

[twin egret]

I'd say the Ho-Ri is a good addition to the game as it prevents Kranvagen spam. But then again, Ho-Ri makes it seem like having armour is pointless, and having to rely on peek-a-boo/surprise tactics if that makes sense. Which leads to more lights in the game, with the lights being able to be spot and work around the ho-ris advsntages

So yes, Ho-Ri balances out other aspects of the game

[uneven narwhal]

Getting back to the HoRi, I don't see why you want a alpha nerf just to keep up with traditions, rather than it being a balance problem, as ChickenMan stated

[torpid cedar]

Lol

[proud panther]

Because it inherently is, considering that it's prammo does the same damage as the one on something like an E4 or an E100, someone said the whole point of the Ho-Ri was to pen everything wiht underwhelming damage, but said damage isn't underwhelming when compared to prammo of guns that deal more damage, like said examples, E4 and E100
I don't see why nerfing the damage of it's prammo is a problem, once again, it'll take away one thing, and one thing only from the ho-ri, the ability to ignore most armor of the game while doing almost as much damage as if you were actually using standard ammo
Let's take an example, a ho-ri versing a KPFPZ 70 which is currently maximising it's turret armor by hiding the hull and using it's gun depression to it's fullest, forcing the HO-RI to shoot prammo to pen it reliably. It's stengh mostly resides in the fact that it has the best alpha of any T9 heavy tank, and yet, while forcing said opponent to spam prammo, it still ends up losing, because said prammo only does 15 less damage than standard. Meanwhile, the Ho-Ri has the ability to pen the KPZ mostly everywhere on said turret (which once again, isn't the problem, it's the damage that is) whereas the KPZ has to aim in carefully to pen it, with it's poor gun handling and accuracy.
And you might be saying that it is normal, it is a T10 TD facing a T9 heavy tank, it should win, it should have the advantage, and i would agree on that, it is a valid point, but i still think the T9 should have a little bit more of a fighting chance in a matchup where it is doing it's fullest to make the ennemy bounce. Of course i picked the situation that outlines this the most on purpose, but the point is made: how bad would a nerf like this realistically affect the ho-ri's stats and performance? Gold is rarely shot in this tank anyway because of it's pen, it would just prevent the goldspam of people who just have the credits to burn. That's simply it.

[distant river]

The ho ri is nicely balanced how it is now, the high alpha prammo is a nice addition that makes it a little more unique while not making it unbalanced.

Talking about a ho ri against a kpfpz is going to tell you nothing, and if you say that changing the alpha will not have an effect, then keeping it won't have an effect either.

[wicked oracle]

day 46 of asking wg to give the foch 155 640 alpha on the single shot gun

[scarlet fjord]

HO RI isn't a 640 alpha TD its alpha is slighly low
and its strong suit is insane pen and great mobility
that isn't broken
the tank is perfectly balanced
and i 100% believe the 268 is a better tank in this insane meta rn its kind of confusing to call certain tanks broken cuz its kinda raining cats and dogs if u catch my drift

[mental pasture]

268 is more mobile, have a better armor, can go backwards extremely fast, have higher alpha, (if I'm not mistaken) have a better precision.

Ho-ri is simply penetration, 268 is the 'close quarters combat' starter pack. Both are balanced and 268 > Ho-ri

[full token]

the ho ri is more accurate now

[stuck acorn]

ho ri always was way more accurate than 268. Gun dispersion was slightly worse, but gun handling and aim time in ho ri are godlike

[frank anchor]

It's Minotauro, and he has all tanks in the game. Is this developer, or something?

[scarlet fjord]

I believe that's a tester

[night geode]

skoda t27 needs buff, it has no armor its ok but at least faster speed or 1sec clip idk its just needs too much skill, its even harder to play than pre-buff tpv50/51 its just feels trash idk why.
i already have the BC Bourrasque and even with 20sec clip reload and accuracy it feels better than Skoda t27, its seems useless to me

[frank anchor]

Yea, i think, and it is a great honor to meet him

[nimble zodiac]

The only reason to use it over Progetto 46 is the intraclip. I think chipping the reload down a bit or reducing dispersion on movement should settle it in a bit more.

[outer glen]

Hori already got a nerf why those guys asking for another nerf lmao

[hearty tinsel]

Fv 183 needs a nerf

[vital basalt]

If you're talking about this, this ain't a nerf lmao, hori couldn't reach 50kmh anyway but now it has traverse speed of a med

[plain dew]

It turns all gray once you switch with HEAT prammo with most heavies. The IS-7 is probably one of the worst heavies you could use coming up against once cause it has bad prammo pen

[proven drum]

thats beside the point, you can pen every tank with prammo, the type 71 for example is nearly immune to standard rounds except for its cupola and people complain about its armour being too good (yes partially because of its insane mobility), tanks should be pennable somewhere with standard, and it should be an actual weakspot, not a cupola or hatch that is near impossible to hit.

[nimble zodiac]

Type 71 has interchangeable hull weaknesses vs standard heavy shells: the lower plate and the shoulder plates

[tropic imp]

Bruh its just like researchable 268v4

[jade cargo]

Chriexpe#1094 was muted

[dense stone]

its because of its pen, everyone complains about the pen. so even if you nerf all the armor to 1 mm and nerf the speed to 1km and nerf the traverse speed to 1 degree per second but as long as you keep the gun stats the same everyone will complain about it being op

[slender latch]

Hori is one of the only tanks to pen a hulldown SC or Kran so being able to run cali with prem AP is always nice tho not broken entirely

[fickle glade]

pls nerf isu 152

[nimble zodiac]

BAHAHAno

It’s all gun, nothing else stands out

[river stream]

buff leo pta terrain crossing capability slightly (10 to each terrain), 360 alpha and might as well give it 7-8 degrees of gun depression.

[unique scaffold]

I think it’s pretty good as it is, only thing is I agree it needs at least 8 degrees gun dep

[stoic cave]

Not to be rude but how many people have talked about the amx 50B already? I believe it deserves some statistics buffed to make it compete with the other clippers or the better choice, to nerf the other clippers to keep the game’s balance

[stoic cave]

If the other clippers are to keep their current stats and kits, I believe it would benefit the amx 50B to get shell reload boost or to have its inter clip reduced as it currently has the worst total clip time by far comparing to everything else

[hearty tinsel]

Nerf fv183...it's too strong and it's very op tank... I can't hold it. Pls nerf it!!!

[outer glen]

Get good, 183 is a bad tank anyway
No armor
No camo
No speed
No traverse

[scarlet fjord]

183 is balanced
just because you faced someone that positioned perfectly and waited patiently to ambush a couple of tanks and deal 2600 dmg in 16 seconds doesn't mean its broken
its unbelievably hard to not get noticed while trying to ambush tanks
this is coming from a 183 spammer
more like its unbelievably hard to master the skill rather than the actual feat happening though

you literally have tanks like FV4005 dont you dare talk about the 183 bruh

[orchid grove]

Autoloaders with fast unload times are toxic. Honestly, I like 50 B right now, they just need to undo the accuracy nerf they gave it

[tropic imp]

Those who cry for nerfing 183 are like most of them literally exposed themselves at widely open field or just stayed right in front of 183 no matter if 183 is ambushing or not and let 183s shoot their side or butt of hulls and turrets which lead them to be penned by hesh 😂😂

[stoic cave]

I feel like the t57 and the 4005 both need their shell reload boost removed, otherwise the 50B is kinda underpowered in comparison
*but yes, otherwise I do agree the 50B is in a good position.

[stoic cave]

Why play 183 when buffed 215b exists 🤓

[tropic imp]

Cuz i didnt buy 215b lel

[mental pasture]

@scarlet fjord you've been fooled by tonii lmao

He asking for 183 nerf was a bait and you've made a whole text refuting him

[scarlet fjord]

What?

[compact nymph]

Poor decisions

[tropic imp]

Well i prefer the larger caliber so... Yeah

[scenic zodiac]

People who demand 183 to be nerfed are either noobs who don’t know how to counter it or trolls who just want a response.
What he tried to tell you was that Toni was trolling.
Correct me if I’m wrong @mental pasture

[scarlet fjord]

i understood what he was saying there
toni was being sarcastic didnt get it right away xd

[unique scaffold]

That’s one hell of a false dilemma argument you’ve cooked up there.

Possibly, just possibly there is a sect of good to excellent players who think the ability for a tank to deplete a significant portion of a players hit points in one shot is genuinely bad for the game.

[hearty tinsel]

Yep^^^

@mental pasture thanks for cooperation. The trap worked 🤣🤣

[scenic zodiac]

183 only has the ability to deal massive damage not only because it is British, and therefore gets HESH, but because it’s also the largest caliber gun ever put on a tank.
Jageroo can also remove a large portion of your HP, but it doesn’t have HESH, but personally I worry about it more because it has useful armor.
Besides, it’s not a problem for the game because it’s only plus is it’s damage capability. Remove that and all you have is a useless hunk of armor that no one would want to play.
Besides, my dilemma is not false, as from personal experience playing 183 on my old account the people who complain about it tend to be noobs who don’t know how to counter it, and therefor sit in the open exposing their weak armor and allowing me to hit them for 1400, then rage about it.

[unique scaffold]

Well, I understand the point about the 183 being broken even if it’s balanced (if you get what I mean) but I think it’s so easy to work around if you know what you’re doing that it’s less harmful than it seems, I know you will say it’s very harmful to have as a friendly tank too, however I think again it’s actually not too bad, noobs do ok in it apparently, and a good player will use any tank to its best advantage. (I know this sounds completely contradictory, and it is a bit paradoxical, however it’s basically the same as saying “the 183 is ‘toxic’ for both teams” but the opposite way round.)

[scenic zodiac]

I’ve seen an enemy 183 carry their team and get 8 k dmg only because it could use its HESH.

[hearty tinsel]

@mental pasture the trap worked too good rn

[quick lichen]

Cool. Show me the other 98% of games

[uneven narwhal]

It's not like it dies on 0 - 1k damage in those games
Totally not
Why would one even think that

[mental pasture]

But what about Grille? It seems kinda op now. Alpha must be nerfed further

[hearty tinsel]

Grille is fine

[hidden prairie]

What?

[scarlet fjord]

you can literally do well consistently in a 183
but only like 5% AT BEST of the 183 player base can do it
and they make the tank viable only u need to literally wrack your brain and position perfectly and literally frontline a tank with tier 1 stats and a broken gun

[hearty tinsel]

It's a troll. I'm trolling ppl by saying fv183 needs a nerf. Which Is true

[hidden prairie]

It is

[raw geyser]

It needs a change - inserts a whole essay here

[scenic zodiac]

Go witness them your self.

[quick lichen]

I have. Most 183s are useless and stats confirm this😂

[hearty tinsel]

Whoever doesn't play comp can't agree without us unfortunately

[unique scaffold]

You gave an “either or” argument with two extremes. That is by definition a false dilemma argument.

[scenic zodiac]

Ok o wise one, you have my sincere apologies for my error.

[lean gate]

Day 34 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[patent helm]

please never stop

[quaint skiff]

dear wg, please confirm tiger 1 damage to 220->240or260or280 and the front of the turret (88mm) +(108mm) ->(90mm) +(110mm) and the top of the tower (30mm) ->(45mm)
Thanks 🙂

[prisma jetty]

How about the Tiger 1 is already rather strong and doesn’t need to be buffed.

[quick lichen]

Glad we have this in writing

[patent helm]

i mean it would be funny tho
op af but funny for like 5 mins

[autumn zodiac]

I don't play comp and I agree. 183 is useless most of the time when I see it on my team. It's fine when I use it but the HESH is a bait shell

[hearty tinsel]

You're a miracle. Thanks god

[autumn zodiac]

I can't tell you how many times I've rushed a 183 and they've tried to HESH me instead of getting the pretty much guaranteed 930 damage only doing half that in the process

[scarlet fjord]

honestly
people just rush their shots
run calibrated and take as long as u need with DECENT aim and half a brain u will pen and smash the adrenaline and u have 2600 damage in 16 seconds obviously its not that simple
but if u can ambush 2 heavies who are distracted unspotted u can eliminate them both
or if u can outplay a strong player in the enemy even if u throw yourself at them u might end up killing them with a 183 obviously only like 3% of 183 players can play like this
focusing the strong enemy players in the enemy team with a 183 gets u a lot of win rate

[faint nest]

What collection tank to recommend on level 10

[quick lichen]

111-5A, concept 1, badger, t95e6

[nimble zodiac]

Nice argument, however, cupola, sides, and deck cliff

[scenic zodiac]

Cupola ain’t that big though, but sides and rear are looking enjoyable to my vickers

[hearty tinsel]

Pls Nerf fv 183!!!! Plsss. It's too strong for me and i keep getting 1300 dmg, that's not fair to me,!!!

[molten urchin]

skill issue

[scenic zodiac]

Aff

[mental pasture]

However, that's a TD as armored as Type 71

[nimble zodiac]

And with a limited turret, a sluggish autoreloader, and low HP against said Type 71

[mortal shore]

troll

[hearty tinsel]

Yeah.
@mortal shore no

[prisma jetty]

Don’t forget the lack of mobility compared to the Type as well!

[scenic zodiac]

The gun is good so long as you don’t blow all shells and have to reload the first one.

[solid scaffold]

i have no complains when i got hit by 183 if that was my mistake for exposing my weakspots. But i really dislike 183 players that sit at the back for the entire game even when they found no opportunity to shoot, they are satisfied even with only 1 shell penetrated, providing no actual help to the team

[tropic imp]

Indeed

[silk hamlet]

183 frontliners rise up

[unique rock]

👍, no other option, side scrape off a heavy and slap anything that pokes

[hearty tinsel]

I like the fact ppl get mad when someone say nerf or everything about the fv

[patent swallow]

IMO 183 is ok, we all got used to it, but is just me or recently it got a DMG buff?

[patent swallow]

Exactly!

[slender latch]

It doesn't need the shell reload boost, just the 3 shot gun with pre-9.1 stats it's better that way

[wicked oracle]

day 46 of asking wg to give the foch 155 640 alpha on the single shot gun

[rotund gust]

Good luck on getting that

[night geode]

that was so satisfying

[spice raptor]

How about making the FV4005 have the 183mm L4 ?

[unique scaffold]

https://tenor.com/view/dr-evil-how-about-no-gif-13114250

[spice raptor]

I dont know but the original FV4005 prototype have that tho

[compact nymph]

historical accuracy in WoTb

[uneven narwhal]

No.

[ebon lynx]

What about not saying anything since it's on testing?

@hearty tinsel 94% sure he isn't a tester

[hearty tinsel]

Was him a tester ?

[unique scaffold]

I think he was specifically answering to ppl complaining it was op based on a t100 lt ap (240 pen) view from 100 meters frontally which ofc wasn’t fair.

Other than that, I personally think we should let wg do the job during the testing. They obviously messed up the 268/4 which is garbage to play and fight and just not an interesting tank, sacrificing too much for an armor too easy to overcome. I hope Minotauro gets the nice buffs it deserves before coming into the game and that it is nice and fair then.

I personally also met the minotauro a LOT in ratings and was sincerely baffled by how easy the cupolas were penned and how unaccurate and sluggish the thing was. And for me too, being an average/good player considering i play since release, It has never been so easy to bully the unicums usually allowed to test tanks before they are implemented for everyone. But once again, this is testing, the thing is probably about to be buffed as it has the lowest win rate of any tank that was tested at tier X as far as I can remember.

Counting on you wg.

[stone flame]

Idk, since when i got that kinda prob, but i got some teams that have 2 meds/lights and my team has only heavys and tds. I thought WG changed the mm so every team got at least one of each. Or am i wrong with that?

[leaden flare]

From what I know you can't meet them in ratings as they aren't allowed to test them there

[unique scaffold]

Well maybe the rules changed ? I don’t exactly record replays rn but I’ll make sure to do and check better which game mode I play.

I think playing ratings with a new tank makes an enormous amount of sense as, that’s pretty much the only place where you can except to encounter ppl perfectly knowing what they’re doing. So maybe it was just a limit of games per tester, but yep, those guys (I often see one on enemy team) were usually underdogs, less because of the usual focusing but more because the tank was so easy to penetrate on the two turret top parts or with any ap. also I have had several low-range bounces or, even funnier, pure misses, as the thing clearly has a terrific accuracy for such an alpha. I remember bullying it with a progetto yesterday. Since 9.1 it’s pretty un accurate compared to other meds of the same type but I still could land the shots in the cupola with ease.

Anyways, If I mistook, and actually encountered them in the rare random battles I play (generally for platooning and clan missions), which would be very weird, I apologise for the mistake, but all my statements about the tank remain true and even more impactful as it would mean those tanks happened to be topped so easily while played by unicums amongst random players.

Thank you for the information @leaden flare

[lean gate]

Day 35 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[unique scaffold]

Why? I think personally it could have its pre 9.1 accuracy back while keeping the speed buff, but right now it seems fairly good, it’s not the greatest tier ten out there, but due to the autoreloader it’s always gonna be sub par in its other stats, the autoreloader makes it the most flexible tank, and its pretty decent all things considered when you look at the armour and speed

[unique scaffold]

Yes but it is too sub par. It pays too much in accuracy and dpm for just the auto reloaded which is much less of an asset now than it was in the times, especially because of tanks like tvp which will nuke you in that same time. It should obviously be as accurate as a tvp in its current state (big aiming time buff), that’s one thing. But the other thing would actually be buffing the dpm on the last shell at least, by 0.5-0.7 seconds, to make it less of a trade. In exchange, armor could be lowered so that it can’t be used as a pretext against the tank anymore, cmon bro, only noobs will bounce of this, in 5k ratings it’s just a big easy to hit leo without accuracy or dpm.

[storm salmon]

I'm Sorry, but This is NOT COOL. Did the Micro update break Match Making?

[uneven narwhal]

No

[tropic imp]

Common WG style matchmaker

[pallid nest]

Sitting here waiting for SD to tell you that that mm was balanced cuz there was an equal amount of tanks on both sides...

[storm salmon]

I don't play on EU server, try playing on the NA-server, it's not balanced the same as the EU-server, cuz they don't want players sitting in queue for more than 2mins.

win rate, # of matches played, and avg damage was removed from the balancing. Only NEW players under 500 and 1000 matches are placed in a special queue.

Of course I've got lawyers an Annihilator. They are like nuclear weapons, I've got it 'cause everyone else has. But as soon as you use them they screw everything up.

[quick lichen]

Well, two of them are together… other than that both teams have identical or nearly identical tank types so it’s fair in that sense

[quick lichen]

He’s not wrong

[unique scaffold]

Why do people complain about rigged MM when what they clearly show is random MM? It's just the wrong term, it would be more rigged to have seven of the exact same tank type vs seven of the same tank (ke nis are the exception cause that's just due to spam), and its actually late at night when MM is most random that you end up with three E 50 Ms facing two leopard 1s. @quick lichen SD isn't wrong or mrspookk isn't? 🧐

[quick lichen]

That’s sort of the problem. People get so mad when they’re on the “losing” side of mm but do they complain about when they have a clearly better tank line up? No

Sd is right

[unique scaffold]

Not sure why you would say SD is right, seems to me mrspook was kind of setting up a straw man argument to prove someone elses point/to make fun of SD, so why accept the point that he says that at all? Anyway yeah people are understandably motivated when they lose to actually take a screenshot and rage about the MM, but it would give more credibility if they did that for both ways, it might make people consider if there's actually a genuine complaint/issue (I don't really think there is myself, at least if there's an issue it's not a solvable one, what we've got is decent and works well enough imo)

[quick lichen]

Sd points out something all the time, the only one thing that remains consistent every battle you play, is you. The individual is the difference between 35% wr and 75%. Some games may pose more of a challenge than others based on people or tanks but every game is still 7v7

Players expect to win, so easy wins aren’t even considered out of the normal

[unique scaffold]

Ah yes, now that I 100% agree on, I've been trying to explain to people, it's pretty darn obvious, you're the only non variable in a streak of battles, and yeah cause MM is random in the long run your bad battles with noobs will equal out with your good battles vs noobs, people complain about worse teams etc. but that cuts both ways, the only way teams can be worse is if the general level of gameplay drops, there won't be more losses for you though (unless of course you get a streak of bad luck). I also like the idea of "30% of battles are certain losses, 30% are certain wins, the other 40% of battles is where you make the difference" it just makes perfect sense, idk why people don't understand it, it's really simple

[quick lichen]

I like the 30-70 quote

[nimble zodiac]

Unfortunately, 70%ers and 20%ers

Oh, and Pz. II J

Yeah DW they’re just extreme cases

[unique scaffold]

20%ers aren't really a thing, overall the lowest seems to be around 30% (this is not my idea btw lol, a very old one) and I've heard that pros seems to max out around 70%, I think there's the odd 80% player but over enough battles and excluding bots etc. I believe it should level out closer to 70% in the end.

[quaint skiff]

It may be possible to place spaced rmor/Buff on some German tanks, for example:Pz 5/4, Pz 4,panther,panther m/10,Pz 3, Jg Pz 4? 🥺

[nimble zodiac]

I don't think WG cares about tier 5 anymore, unless they're trying to release another 280 alpha tank in it

[unique scaffold]

https://tenor.com/view/me-too-what-are-the-odds-surprised-excited-flirt-gif-16555475

[quick lichen]

If it’s below tier 7, they don’t care

[scenic zodiac]

Rigged would be like my countries elections (if I can say that)
Random would be like my chances of catching a fish when I’m out on a lake.

I hope that might provide some assistance to your point.

[verbal igloo]

panzer 5/4 is literally a e50m in tier 5 its build to bully bad tier 5/4,.panther 1/2 have mobility,usable armor (if played right) and a good gun and the jpz 4 has good mobility and an Amazing gun. the other tanks idk/c @quaint skiff

[wicked oracle]

aren't catfish bottom feeders? why wouldn't you be able to catch catfish?

[scenic zodiac]

I don’t fish for catfish regularly, I normally target bass, mostly because I participate in bass tournaments.

And bass can be really difficult to catch sometimes, other times they smash your lure as it touches the water.
All it is that it is a random chance to hook one.

[autumn zodiac]

Similarly there was a game I had eons ago, it was horrendously balanced in favor of the enemy team.

Not in the way you would think either. The problem was my team was all tier 8s, that's reasonable. The enemy team was 5 tier 8s and 2 tier 9s.

My team utterly destroyed the opposing team even with the horrible disadvantage

Was it stupid? Yes

But did I complain even though we won?

Yes

[quick lichen]

It’s no different then my team sees a pramo platoon and basically goes afk thinking they can win for free without bothering to play. Then we lose

[autumn zodiac]

still a tad salty every time I ran into Concep while he was still active he was on the enemy team

But all in all, with regards to MM, you will win and lose games you think you have an advantage or disadvantage because of other factors.

[mental pasture]

"Damn it's all so unfair that I've got an Annihilator platoon on my team"
That's not what someone who complains about MM would say

It's just skill issue @quick lichen

[quick lichen]

It’s just people with poor mentalities

Every game is winnable at the start

[autumn zodiac]

I see most smasher's as free Bonfires

[unique rock]

double tvp vs single 30b says otherwise 🥲

[autumn zodiac]

Ignore that lmao

But a Platoon will skew MM results

Playing a normal match vs platooning will alter the balance a bit that is undeniable

[mental pasture]

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”

When platooning, you're playing with someone that you know the playstyle, thus, you know how to work with it, then your chances of winning increase harshly depending of the skill of the duo

[nimble zodiac]

In the end, pure strategy determines most of your battles, and given at least the ability to aim, shoot, and drive basically, some games are won purely because the teams went this way or took this position at this time.

It's practically random, and that's why pro players lose at all. It's why you can do everything perfect for your strategy, but fail because, while your strategy works in most cases, it just so happens that the enemy did the few things that countered it, outside of your ability to predict that.

Oh yeah um, wOooO buff Type 71’s mobility and gun depression slightly, and then remove the equipment 🤪

[wicked oracle]

day 47 of asking wg to give the foch 155 640 alpha on the single shot gun

[vast heath]

guys is the high score tank good

[unique scaffold]

Yeah, sounds like most countries to be quite honest 😁, thanks for the illustrations lol

[unique scaffold]

Well, interesting you say that, I seem to have the most trouble when I’m in a platoon, cause there’s always an enemy plat, and usually because I’m a 40%er with another average player and the enemy is a fairly decent plat it really makes it hard to win, but if I’m playing singly it’s easier even when vs a plat cause often the plats on both teams will be fairly close to each other in terms of skill, and I can possibly play above my average vs one better player in random battles, so for a below average player it’s actually harder to win in a plat even though most people would say better teamwork = more wins, doesn’t quite work out that way by what I’ve seen

[night geode]

give kran, gear oil or somthing like that

[wicked oracle]

it has apcr as it's standard round?

[unique scaffold]

why was the obj 263 nerfed without getting back it’s accuracy ? A long time ago it got nerfed on the accuracy to compensate for a great mobility buff. 9.1 took all that mobility, but it didn’t give it the accuracy back. Was that a mistake ? When do you plan making this tank playable again ? Could you please signal that mistake ? Nothing justifies this tank to be that slow and inaccurate

[unique scaffold]

Also, there is a huge ridge between the upper part and lower part of the frontal armor. If you had balanced it properly, in counterpart for taking out all of he mobility, you should have buffed that part. The way the tank got bounces before was by being very fast and wiggling and all, thus making that update a substantial armor nerf as well as some kind of dpm buff, it being much harder to land as much hits as before as you are overall terribly slow compared to before. So that HUGE nerf was, firstly, not deserved, secondly, absolutely not compensated by the pityful and useless 10mm of penetration it got.

Make the accuracy snapshottable as a long time ago, and suppress the ridge and frontal roof part weakness by increasing their thickness. Nothing is justifying that they be this weak. If the tank is just a less armored, more exposed, even less accurate, slightly faster badger it’s not fair. Before it’s main tool was it’s mobility. Now it should be the accuracy.

[lean gate]

Day 36 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[verbal igloo]

can you not "@" random people (yeah i know she works with wargaming but nerfs/buffs are not her job) the 😭 sounds douchy af like how dare they!! my favorite tonk 😦

[scarlet fjord]

good to see you getting almost a dozen positive reactions nowadays 💀

[unique scaffold]

Don’t insult in here that’s worse than tagging. Well who should I tag then I want them to see because they do nonsensical things. Steven you’re hard to stand for a long time you never take risks and keep shaming everyone and asking for things to stay how they are when they are bad; I bet you’re a t71, t57 and fv4005 spammer who hopes is little favorites tanks stay meta for as long as possible.

I actually didn’t 😭 I argued. The tank has never been meta, there was no reason to nerf it, and especially that hard. It was around as good as the Foch which got a buff. I just don’t understand wg and hope they will tweak their changes as promised instead of ŵaiting a very long time until changing tier X tanks again.

I mean why would they do that, even fatness wouldn’t play it before, and called it a “garbage can” now, I mean, for fatness to say that, the tank really has to be awful, and I trust his word more than your frustrated insults

[wicked oracle]

Day 47 of asking wg to give the foch 155 640 alpha on this single shot

[silk geode]

Bro I want ask the fv4202 is has been balance or maybe need buff a little bit in the turret? I'm suffering because the turret is not to strong like centurion (easy to pen),or maybe someone can give me gameplay to play better with fv4202?

[uneven narwhal]

It's not meant to be a hulldown tank

[vital basalt]

It already got buffed

[wicked oracle]

Me too, if people like that @hushed walrus guy doesn’t just argue just to argue people normally don’t go at it with me

[hushed walrus]

ok

[scarlet fjord]

47 though

[pine pasture]

T32 gun is trash in its tier and stock gun is unplayable

[prisma jetty]

Get the top gun.

[wicked oracle]

🤓

[unique scaffold]

Wargaming, will we ever have the chance of getting Sheridan Missile through an event or shop?

[livid sparrow]

2 time in the event lol

[unique scaffold]

What event, when?

[sacred cairn]

Good tank for me

[pine pasture]

It is a good tank but i dont like the gun low pen and dmg as half of tier 8(that usally appears in battles) have 400 dmg or more(i have 56 w/l in it)

[prisma jetty]

The T32 has an insane armor profile, good mobility, and the only thing holding it back is slightly below average pen. It does not need a buff in any way, shape, or form.

[nimble zodiac]

Needs a nerf 🗿

[vital basalt]

I dont understand why people still want penetration buff to t32, 218/265 is basically same as most other heavies, t54e2 has 220, tiger and is3 has 225 and other 122mms has 221 but apcr shell so lower pen, I'd say dispersion is a bigger issue with t32 with 0.393 base but when you think its a close quarters tank, you dont need accuracy to begin with

[hearty steeple]

Accuracy and dpm are the thing that is holding it from being so ridiculous that it might as well be tier 9 with some minor adjustments

[hearty tinsel]

Nerf fv183 pls. I keep asking but no-one is nerfing that tank. This is unbelievable and the game is not balanced at all!!!! Pls do something or I have to play tiers below!!!! Unacceptable!!!!

[coarse badger]

https://tenor.com/view/seriously-laugh-laughing-you-serious-jk-simmons-gif-6107729

[sacred cairn]

Lmao

[autumn zodiac]

It doesn't need a nerf

[hearty tinsel]

My friend let them get mad. You know why I keep saying it lmao

[lethal blaze]

What do you mean by “old states”

[simple glacier]

aka revert prog65 to its stats during 6.3 by removing all changes since then, both increases and decreases

didnt play then, so i wouldnt know

[scenic zodiac]

We don’t get mad, we laugh at a little kid who tries so hard to make a really lame joke.

The joke is to provoke other people into responding and “getting mad” at your taunt.

183 is fine, the lack of camo, mobility and armour make up for the gun.

[prisma jetty]

The 183 may be “balanced”, but that doesn’t stop it from being toxic

[nimble zodiac]

Unfortunate that this chat is for balance, not toxicity

[unique scaffold]

It is annoying but it is all but op when you play too. Consider how the tank performs statistically. Yes, you’re unlucky if you get the shot, yes, it can be criticised as boring for everyone and encouraging camping gameplay, but that is still not a tank you could possibly nerf. Either remove it, or learn to play in a ramped up style, hiding, and wait for it to be spotted then nuke it. The biggest problem I have with it is that because of the alpha and hesh it is not a tank that you could possibly buff either, that you could make any better to play with. It shouldn’t feel comfortable. You have to get nuked as soon as you’re spotted. Because that’s the price to pay to be able to make a 262 pen 1300 alpha damage in a single shot.

[scenic zodiac]

Your taking his bait lol.

He’s trolling, to get responses.

It’s the 3rd time he has said that.

[hearty tinsel]

Man I'm 10 yo kid who did top 16 eu but still can't accept the fv.
Lmao u take me seriously? It's just to motivate the chat, I'm trolling since the beginning.

@unique scaffold same for u^
The only ways to make tank balanced is remove HESH, like some ppl above said time ago.

@scenic zodiac I do it to read ppl getting mad at nerfing this pure toxic tank. No cap.
I'm not lonely xd, it's just funny to see how you literally rage to this.
You took it personally, literally.

[scenic zodiac]

You do it so you get some messages in your lonely life.

[scarlet fjord]

can we change the whole 7 type 71's vs 7 type 71's meta its not very entertaining 😑

[leaden flare]

not like youre meeting those teams anywhere but in a few destinct tour battles stop making it seem like every game is 7 type 71s

[scarlet fjord]

70% of them are type 71's
I was referring to tours obviously
every game is type 71 spam
with a couple of other tanks in the mix

[mental pasture]

I kinda prefer Yoh meta tbh

[silk geode]

Ihope Dev nerf it and make the front armor is like type 68

[sonic mango]

Nerf the side armor

[obtuse sentinel]

Lmao you just admitted that you are under the required age to be on this discord server. You have to be 13 years or older to technically be using this discord server according to the server rules and the EULA of Discord.

[hearty tinsel]

You wasted 4 minutes of your time to type an useless message because I was trolling.

[scenic apex]

Trolling can get you banned 💀
Joking about your age can get you banned too 💀

[stuck acorn]

i mean sides are annoying, but they may stay as they are. There is one other thing that needs a change more. it's weakspots.

This tank has literaally no reliable weakspots. I have no idea why WG loves to give all tanks coming into the game weakspots that aren't reliable at all. Type's lower plate and hatch are an joke. Lower late can bounce basically any shell having less than 270 mm of pen after some angling which is dumb. On the other hand in front of the hatch they put a view port that eats half of the shots for 0. Weakspots exist to allow penning the tank with standard shots if it makes a mistake. Allowing weakspots to bounce shots just makes game idiotproof. Same goes for 60TP's lower plate and kind of yoh hatch (this one is not as annoying tho)

Mindset of average Type 71 player looks like that:
Ooga booga i overpicked in my Type 71 showing my side at favorable angle for enemy, showed my lower plate and made no effort to hide the hatch. I don't care about that tho. Thye will still bounce lmao

And apparently it doesn't matter. Some shots will get eaten for 0 by these dumb sides, other bounce of lower plate becuase of rng and these aimed for hatch might go into view port for 0. It doesn't matter how well you aim. Chances of bouncing are still ridiculously high when you consider that it's meant to be a weakspot

Just give it proper weakspots and problem solved. Nothing else about this tank is really broken. gun is trash and mobility is just average. Nerf lower plate to be easly pennable with standard, it's small anyway. remove that stupid view port that sometimes blocks shot going into hatch and preferably nerf side armor to like 100mm, but that's kinda optional. These dumb sides may be considered as tank's strenght as long as you actually have some viable alternatives to shoot at

[stuck acorn]

And to evrybody that wants to say "aim better", "rng can make you bounce anytime and on every tank, not only type" or "load gold lmao"

1st of all aiming as i said earlier doesn't matter. lower plate is small and bouncy, upper plate weakspots are small aswell and work only when enemy is angled and hatch has some dumb view port in the middle that eats shots regardless of your aiming.

2nd of all every tank can bounce, but other tanks bounce only when you miss the weakspot. In Type's case you can bounce even if you actually hit that damn spot which negates purpose of these weakspots existing at all.

And last but not least - thing that it's pennable with gold doesn't make it balanced. Loading gold makes it eat less damage. And it doesn't change the fact that in many tanks you need to aim for that tiny points even with gold anyway. Just learn the meaning of word "weakspot" and then go talk this complete nonsense somewhere else. Weakspots exist to allow you to pen tank without being forced to load gold, not to give you slight chance of penning after loading it

[scenic apex]

You bounce shots on the cupola/hatch because there is a autobounce bar in between the 2 viewports

And for your last point it just reminds me of the Maus

[solid scaffold]

Maus mobility is not even comparable to the type 71, it can force people to load gold at the cost of angling and unable to fight back, the type can do both at the same time.
On top of that, any parts of the maus that became grey are much more reliable to penetrate comparing to 71's

[silk geode]

Why WG not add weakspot on driver hatch ? I think that's will be a little balance for high turret tank like maus or e 100

[raw geyser]

I’m gonna include the close to unpennable track wheel in the weakspots. Hard to pen lower plate, fairly troll cupola, near impossible to perma track and damage at the same time

[unique scaffold]

Tiger 131 so weak rather tiger 1 one in free tech

[nimble zodiac]

They’re… different tiers 🙃

[unique scaffold]

Tier for tier the tech tree is still a lot stronger imo, even if that wasn’t what chimaera was saying

[winter plover]

Keeping the armor values for "historical accuracy", while literally modelled into a late tiger and barely have any similarities to the actual tank.
If it would get buffed imo it should be it having the Maybach HL 230 engine.

[unique scaffold]

Well yeah the historical armour values thing doesn’t work anyway cause penetration etc. doesn’t work historically, and the way armour works etc. doesn’t match what it was historically. Agree it could be faster to make it different from just a downtier tiger 1

[winter plover]

Imo its because its placed on a tier where it mostly faces tanks that it didnt irl, it would do better if it was on tier V. (Just saying, not suggesting that it should have pref. mm or brought a tier down)

It should be re-modelled to look like the actual 131, other platforms have it almost completely accurate and i dont see the reason why not on blitz too.

[silk geode]

Remember tiger kuromori just tiger 131 with different skin 🗿

[unique scaffold]

.....

[unique scaffold]

Type 71 &ctually much more cancer and frustrating than any previous tank maybe just under the level of t49 atgm or Sheridan missile

Like that effortless wiggle and bounce is really raging, it’s not even skill issue it’s just that you need preternatural reflexes to put that apcr in at the very moment of the wiggle it is totally facing you, I can rarely do that, often the shells hit a tenth of second too late and bounce

[stuck acorn]

As i said. Just gove it some damn weakspots

That are reliable to hit ofc

[desert relic]

Ooorrrr... Instead of making every tanks a clone of eachothers (really if every heavies has the same weakspots some tanks could just disappear and we wouldn't notice,T110E5 perfect example) you nerf the sides. I'm not trying to be "ooga ooga I'm not changing my mindset no matter facts shown" it's just that in your example the nerfed sides could have prevented this and it would prevent a thing Wargaming seems to be scared of, lack of diversity

[desert relic]

I don't understand y'all opinion about Tiger 131 and Kuromorimine Tiger because in my opinion they're powerful as hell, the gun is super powerful, huge/big damage with reliable accuracy and good pen. Even the reload is okay so there isn't really a downside. Armor isn't good against tier VII okay, but like I said your gun lets you go second line, you're lower tier anyways what are you expecting. Playing against tier VI and tier V you literally just angle perfectly (sometimes you don't even need a wall to protect just angle and wiggle) and boom, SU-100 Y will have hard time penetrating you.
Speed feels average, not good not bad.
It's not the Tiger 131 which is bad it's the normal Tiger I that is off the balance because new players usually first pick this tank as first tier VII and then complained because they couldn't angle.

For these who had played War Thunder in Br 5.3, you know what I mean as Tiger H1s gets destroyed everytime their player thinks they're invincible because it's a tiger

[stuck acorn]

that's why i said nerfing sides is optional. But as i said nerfing lower plate and removing view port is necessity. Type is by far most annpying tank to face and it will stay like that until it's weakspots becom actuall weakspots

[hearty tinsel]

Turn on the brain. Imagine having 10 years and be able to think like a 20yo guy smth

[compact nymph]

I’m fine with the sides besides the neandertal-tier 178mm plates behind the drive wheels

[twilit crystal]

E100 has option to spam HE.

[silk geode]

But not with maus ,who only have 12cm kwk

[raw geyser]

I think assuming the lower plate gets the same angle as before and still gets like smth 76 mm armor on it, just a slight angle down and it would be autobounce anyway, so it would need a remodelling of some sort

Although I personally think that from a 71 player’s (not me) standpoint, that remodelling of the lower plate would kinda remove the purpose of the thing’s armor, so I would lean more on nerfing the quote unquote neanderthal-tier trackwheel armor which prevents the thing from getting permatracked

[uneven narwhal]

"would remove the purpose" is not, and should not be a justification to leave a tank in a ridiculous state

[wicked quest]

No? Horrible idea lol who th would play a tiger in tier 5 lol and by the way the tiger does face tanks that were designed with guns to counter it in mind and not surprising it was utter hot garbage before it got its armor buffs

[lean gate]

Day 37 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[slender latch]

Tiger 131/Kuromorimine are both butter to SU100Y's premium ammo which has less pen but 530 alpha

[quaint skiff]

Dear wg, please buff PzKpfw 5/4 Dpm and turet armor

[nimble zodiac]

No, the entire point is that it has a strong hull and still decent mobility, with weight to ram with

[nimble zodiac]

Problem. (yes, this is the premium AP, with lower pen)

[desert relic]

Well it’s a bit easier than I thought. I never fought the Tiger 131 and when I play Kuromorimine (I played it 244 times) I’ve never seen any SU-100Y penning me as I was always sidescrapping or face hugging and sticking my gun mantelet into their gun
Anyways that doesn’t look too bad, you could manage to hulldown and sidescrappe, SU players aren’t usually known for their intelligent aiming

[nimble zodiac]

Very skill issue on their part 😅

[unique scaffold]

Yes the worst about type 71 is clearly the sides. To me the hatch and lower plate could stay the same but the frontal part of the sides just bounces too much even when it’s not angled

[autumn zodiac]

Was this intentional to give tiger 1, 5mm more armor and a (somehow) 67mm thick side skirt?

[twin egret]

Meh, they stuggle against a Churchill 6

[stuck acorn]

No it shouldn't. Lower plate and hatch need nerf aswell. It's just dumb. Sides are neandertal, but it doesn't change a fact that 40% trash or any other player can still make a mistake and not get punished for it because of ridiculously high (for a weakspot) chance of bouncing even with well aimed shot.

In any other tank maybe except for 60TP which also has stupid lower plate (still far from type level tho) if you show your weakspots, you get punished. Doesn't matter if it's a maus going 25 km/h or T22 medium going 55 km/h. Type is the only tank in which you can yolo like a bot and get away with that. That is not how weakspots are intended to work.

Look at IS-4 and T110E5. These tanks used to be overwhelmingly strong, but when you look at the type even their pre nerf version doesn't look that good anymore. Type has mobility of pre nerf IS-4, flexibility of pre nerf T110E5 and better armour than both of these tanks ever had. That's ridiculous.

On the other hand now T110E5 is 2nd least played T10 tech tree heavy after for Maus (which btw also is piece of garabge and needs some changes)

@nimble zodiac i know what he meant. I just want to say that nerfing sides isn't enough. This tank is stupid and needs to be brang back to normality

That's what i want to say. I would add removal of view port in front of hatch or making it eat shots with DMG. There is nothing more annoying than perfectl aiming at enemy weakspot, taking shot and seeing "observation device broken" communicate. Taking gun or track of enemy even if does no damage at least forces him to use reapir kit or something. Destroying view port on the other hand does literally nothing'

[nimble zodiac]

I think he meant worst as in worst for the balance 😅

Or like, worst to deal with, that kind of sense

Ah, personally if they made the lower plate thicker but reduced its angle by a few degrees, along with fixing the sides, it should be fine, armor-wise

The first thing that should go is the equipment, though

[eager bronze]

Actually its a tier 6 🤓

[nimble zodiac]

Wow you're really using post-5.5 against him, that's cruel 💀

It’s actually sad seeing so many white tags up there

[stuck acorn]

5.5 is the worst update ever released. Even 3.5 that introduced heavy meta for the first time and completly thrown equipment system into trash for some time wasn't that bad

[winter plover]

Re-read the message, im not suggesting the tech tree Tiger I and Tiger 131 to be down to tier V.

And we were talking about the tiger 131

[eager bronze]

I’ve argued this before actually lol. A-20 could pen Tiger 131 front plate with heat

[wicked oracle]

Day 50 of asking wg to give the foch 155 640 on the single shot gun

[next quail]

Ju-nu has everything you mentioned+ very good armor. Change my mind

[mental pasture]

Tiger 1 struggled a lot at being a heavy tank in late war. M4A3E8s could penetrate it rather easily if the Tiger wasn't angled or if thw gunner aimed poorly. Keep in mind that every german and soviet tanks on ww2 are extremely overrated, mostly the german heavies and T-34s.

[lean gate]

Day 38 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[unique scaffold]

You’re actually right but the gun is compensating both weak spots to me. Now, you’re still speaking truth here, and one of the few daring. The weak spots being extremely hard to hit is not skill issue, it’s just an overpowered feature about this tank. I’d be fine with the lower plate because other tanks at times had such trollish plates, but then the upper cupola would have to be made pennable

[scarlet fjord]

actually ur at 49 now 💀

[wicked oracle]

48 last was 47, oh wait yeah nvm lol I’m tripping, @nimble zodiac It be like that, so then I would technically be at 51 today then

[nimble zodiac]

Hm…

Dw I make upside-down brain mistakes too 🤪

[wicked oracle]

because i lost count somehow, it is actually day 51; Day 51 of asking wg to give the foch 155 640 alpha on the single shot gun

[twin egret]

Double shotgun foch like the helsing but no dely

[fickle light]

so you want to give Foch a potential to deal 1100 dmg in a single shot with AP?

[scarlet fjord]

WG the poor guy started tripping before u realize what u need to change 💀

[nimble zodiac]

He meant set it to 640, not add 640

[pastel quest]

Бля лагает постоянно.тзадалбал WG

[scenic zodiac]

English

[unique scaffold]

I couldn't work out what colt was saying lol

[drowsy plaza]

3.H8 not 3.5 for the Equipment changes FWIW.

[winged barn]

Ahh good times

"No timers" was literally advertised as a feature in the app store when they added timers on equipment.

[lethal blaze]

Nerf type 71 lower plate and make the cupola a lot bigger and weaker. Remove the special equipment and give it 9 degrees of gun depression and nerf the mobility. Make it like a little bit more amored but slower is 4

[real bison]

a slower IS-4 with gundep

you mean a beefier chieftain with worse manoeuvrability and gun

which is what it should have been from the start

[lethal blaze]

Yeah.

[fickle light]

Im talking about the Alocepoid guy tho

[nimble zodiac]

That’s not technically a single shot though 💀

[upbeat sphinx]

Honestly it should have 4 degrees of gun depression and the equipment should give 4°. So that the mobility equipment has an high trade off.

[next quail]

Not even soviet heavies and chinese heavies which are known to lack gun dep dont have that little

[lean gate]

Day 39of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[upbeat sphinx]

Again, you need to have a great trade-off if you want Medium-Level traverse and power to weight ratio.
6 still too good, should be lowered to 5°or 4°

[hearty tinsel]

4 grades eeeh? At this point don't give it gun depression at all

[scenic zodiac]

Honesty I don’t feel as ‘protected’ in type 71 as I thought I would, the thing is a prammo magnet, and even if I wiggle and angle heat and APCR still get through.

So honestly I don’t see why all of you complain about it’s armour being broken.

[prisma jetty]

The fact that the enemy has to use prammo to penetrate you, lowering their dpm, is inherently broken. They have very few “weak points” to actually aim at, where as you can usually hit a hatch or lower plate, keeping your dpm as high as possible.

[scarlet fjord]

some tanks cant pen even with gold reliably
in many situations
thats not even the main problem the broken traverse makes the problem apparent plus that annoying trackwheel GOD the tank itself is so toxic
thats why u get type 71 spam in tourneys
its not spammed in pubs or anything like that heck its kinda even rarely seen i stopped playing it cuz it was boring to me its just kind of annoying
the tank itself isnt insanely overpowered
the problem is the way WG chose to balance it is so stupid that it does nothing but frustrate literally everyone and there's no gain in that WG

[upbeat sphinx]

Then you can still use the gun depression module and get a decent value.
Also don't understand why the type has the best base value of view range for heavies. Should have the worst one

[hearty tinsel]

The problem it's not his special consumable. It's the armour. Meds cannot pen it frontally, they can only in the flanks, bot how are they sopposed to flank if it has the consumable, plus it won't happen so often.
So the solution is just one: Nerf the frontal armour.

[scenic zodiac]

Do you even know what the difference between consumables and equipment is?

If they can’t flank because of the suspension, just nerf that instead of the frontal armour.

[ruby garden]

Buff type 71 armour

[hearty tinsel]

Nah I don't know the difference
Maybe u explain me? I'm not as good and expert as you.

[scenic zodiac]

Clearly you aren’t.
As an expert, I suggest you use google.

[bronze fossil]

Give spall lliner to isu130pm plz, I dont like being shot by an isu152 for like 1050 hp.

[full token]

he knows the meaning. If you replace it for the correct word it makes perfect sense, which you did because you saw that equipment was the right word

[compact nymph]

Pro tip: don't get hit

Additionally, if someone cries and asks for a spall liner whenever they get 152'd, we might aswell just remove HE from the game

[upbeat sphinx]

No.

[scenic void]

You want this... thing to have spall liner?

[nimble zodiac]

Ofc he really meant SU-130 PM 🤪

[lethal blaze]

I wanna nerf the tank into the ground while still having it be playable. Giving it -4 degrees + all the other nerfs would make it borderline unplayable

[lethal blaze]

No. Don’t give this thing spall liner. The su 130PM has good camo and if your getting shot by ISU and SU 152 your playing it wrong. Your supposed to camp at the back or behind your heavy’s and cover them. A much better option would be the Skorpion G as this tanks dosnt have good camo and is less sneaky so it needs to survive those HE shots because you can’t really help getting spotted while repositioning in a skorp with no camo but you can with the SU-130PM that has camo. Plus the SU-130 needs its upper plate nerfed. Am tired of bouncing 122 mm off it’s ufp.

[tropic imp]

Interesting
Ive never bounced a single shell with su130pm
NEVER

[lethal blaze]

The amount of times I have aimed at this things front JUST to have it bounce up and not hit its turret shouldn’t be a thing

[nimble zodiac]

The UFP is at an auto-ricochet angle, and it’s 40mm, the only way that 122mm shells don’t work is if it ran enhanced armor 🤔

@tropic imp remember enhanced armor

[tropic imp]

Bruh then where is that 3 calibers rule
Its literally 40mm which means it must not be bounced when larger than 121mm caliber shell try to pen there
It makes no sense to me at all

@nimble zodiac
Oh shoot ok i forgot about that enhanced armor

But btw srsly who the hell would use the enhanced armor on su130pm man

[orchid grove]

I’m all in favor of removing HE pens from the game. HE should only be able to splash.

HE pens adds an unnecessary amount of RNG for no real reason

[lethal blaze]

No. Just no. That would make several lines useless. Also what do you mean by “UnNeCeSsaRy AmoUnt oF RnG”. If you hit someone with HE it either pens or splashes

[real bison]

honestly I’d be fine if HE was more consistent in damage deviation

[orchid grove]

Because the pennable area with HE is always way smaller than it is with normal shells. Any monkey can dab the 3 key, check a hit skin, and pray to RNGsus.

It’s a stupid no-skill mechanic that rewards lucky dispersion RNG

[spice raptor]

I dont into that tho but i would like to have a HE splash from 1m to 2 or 3m

[scenic apex]

Huh, to bad WG won’t make something to counter this
Oh wait-

[spice raptor]

But if HE dont have penetration, it can still cause force on the armor and make some damage inside

[stuck acorn]

HE is needed in the game. It's one of core mechanics that is here since the beggining. What's the point of having different types of shells when in the end 1 of them is staright up useless.

And what about tanks that rely on HE to be usefull? FV4202, FV215b 183, T49, conway, charioteer, FV215b, conqueror and probably some others i forgot about.

What about tanks that are getting countered by HE? And require HE existance to be balanced? Removing HE pen would be a huge buff to all of those tanks. Tanks like previously mentioned SU-130PM, scorpion, M41D are extremely powerfull in right hands now. their only drawback is their lack of survavibility that causes them to get wrecked by HE everytime they expose themselves. That's what makes these tanks skill requiring.

I'd rather say, removing completly choice between types of shells is simplifying the game and making it braindead

HE itself isn't a problem. It's not a no brain feature. HE is effective only when you know how to effectively use it. Ofc sometimes you get some stupid shots into some tiny parts of the tank that shouldn't normally get HEd, but's not problem with HE, but rather the tank models.

If WG wouldn't put some wonky 20mm plates in stupid places randomly this problem would be non existant and HE would only pen shots they are suposed to pen like sides or rears of low armoured targets or paper tanks.

Tl;dr - rework the models, not ammo. Ammo is fine

[winged barn]

Yup
374 heat should be the only shell on every tank.
(/s)

Why risk shooting ap at a smaller penetrable area and rely on rng when you could just autopen prammo
"Any monkey can dab the 3 1 key, check a hit skin, and pray to RNGsus."

You are actually advocating for idiotproofing the game. What the hell posi.

Yes, hit skins exist. You won't efficiently use HE without game knowledge with or without the hit skin.

[spice raptor]

Ye you forgot E4, E5, The whole SU-152 branch, Jg E100, Bosig, Waffentrager and Grille 15

[tropic imp]

And GSOR as well

[hoary crescent]

I am one of those monkey that love to use HE to any chances that have been given, and i am proud of it.

[silk geode]

What about e4& E5 have more AP pen than others HT? I mean 290mm?

[wicked oracle]

Day 52 of asking wg to give the foch 155 640alpha on the single shot gun

[main tulip]

this is honestly the problem with the 268 v4 as well, super annoying to fight in a 1v1 but also annoying to play because of the way the armor works and how troll the gun is

[weary whale]

Hey guys

[mighty lark]

Hello there , i would ask to make YohM6 faster relaod with 2 shells , impossible this way to fight against mediums and lights , so long reload that i get killed until i can shot !!!

[uneven narwhal]

The 120mm is not meant to have good DPM and fights meds with it
It's two shot autoloader is already extremely strong for what it does; 900dmg in 1.7s

[lean gate]

Day 40 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[next quail]

Hello there my friend. Looks like you witnessed the power of that upper plate

[slender latch]

E5 doesn't have a derp gun unless you meant E3

[stuck acorn]

e4, jag, grille line and definetly E5 aren't based on HEs even slightly. But yeah, i forgot about SU-152, vindicator, GSOR and cent 7/1

@slender latch E3 and E4 doesn't have derp aswell. 155mm gun isn't anything special at T9 and 10. I wouldn't even really consider Jag E100 as a derp. Derps usually are based on HE shells and/or remove at least half of enemy's HP with one shot. Neither of these tanks do that

WG intentionally removed/nerfed to the ground most of derp tanks in the game as they are extremely effective aginst noobs and quite frustrating to face

We have only few of these left i don't think there is anything except for:

• gargoyle, highscore, nightmare and mitsu (they are basically same thing but on different chassie)
• 183
• KV-2
• Su-152, vindicator (same thing here)
• smasher
• ISU
• RHM
• T49

[scarlet fjord]

that tank is annoying but as soon as it turns like 1 degree i can pen it
type 71 just has way more than that

[remote oriole]

Tempting little phishing scam

[jade cargo]

Kang Siomay#9508 was banned

[spice raptor]

@stuck acorn @slender latch No wait it was the E3
They dont have derp gun but the HE damage can go up to a thousand if it in a possible penetrate armor

[spice raptor]

And the T95 too does have a very good HE pen and it damage

[stuck acorn]

It can do a lot of damage, but how often do you have a chance to pen somebody with HE using T95 or E3? These tanks are really slow, you will usually face tanks frontally so chances of penning are low. These tanks rarely use HE shells and usually rely on way more reliable AP and APCR's that can do consistant damage.

They don't have classic derp tank weaknesses like trash DPM, bad armour and bad accuracy aswell'

[unique scaffold]

Yes, I’m a little puzzled by the suggestion to remove HE, I agree it’s more braindead to remove it than less braindead, but I think the fact there’s odd little spots on tanks that can be penned by HE “where they shouldn’t” is actually good, that’s definitely a skill thing, your average player won’t be able to HE them regularly, but guys who know what they’re doing will (for instance I’ve had some fun spamming HE at an stbs turret and penning it once or twice, but I don’t know really know where to aim so it’s not much of an issue, but skilled players who know where to aim and can actually consistently hit it will get a high reward, and the same idea with HEing turret rings etc. RNG will occasionally help you but mostly it’s knowledge and good aim)

[midnight linden]

E3’s 80 mm view port on the front if you can even hit that
IS-2 (1945)’s 30 mm view port on the front (65 mm on the lower portion of the turret ring then the actual ring being 30 mm) are two tanks I can think of that have these so ‘odd’ weak spots

[silk geode]

So the only option for t110E5 is make him run like Medium?💀

[nimble zodiac]

E5 is at the point where even with sluggish medium mobility, it wouldn’t be OP

[bronze fossil]

Any paper tank should have spall liner, rhm already has it.

[compact nymph]

Plot twist: avoid getting hit in your paper tanks.

If you just want to remove their weakness aka taking more damage from HE as they are more or less easily pennable by these shells, we might aswell makes heavies even more meta and just give all of them super speed boosts to compensate their weaker mobility🦍

[bronze fossil]

HE should remain, spall liner only lowers down the he by a bit, it still makes more damage than average rounds. I do know how bot to get hit, the thing is when a med patrols and out spots you, even behind a bush. You get spotted for like 2 seconds and have all of your health gone. I mean like all td paper tanks, just like wg gives special speed boost to a bunch of slow heavies and some tds. There are fewer tds with spall liner.

[nimble zodiac]

"Any tank destroyer should be able to take out 50-80% of your HP, 183 already can"

[bronze fossil]

183 is a special thing, that tank should even be on the game, something similar to the whole line would be much better. The concept if being able to deal 1300 hp damage is just stupid. Plus the E100 can also deal like 1000 hp with HE.

[unique scaffold]

Exactly lol, also the wiggle, when you can pen the 268 you can pen it, when you try to pen the tape 71 on the cupola that is not red at all you bounce eleven times

[nimble zodiac]

Negating the weaknesses of a tank by adding an entirely new feature is also just stupid :)

I agree, they're all stupid. They slap band-aids on balance issues

[bronze fossil]

Having the grille line with spall liner is stupid then, in that case then every single special consumables like between clip shots and accuracy boost and special mobility booster is also stupid.

[real bison]

because Chieftain does fine as a heavium with a conventional layout

and its actually balanced

[winged barn]

What
HE pen under 130 is not very british
Lol

[scenic apex]

Hmm yes
Super Conq also has 110mm HE pen so ig it’s not British either

[sharp saddle]

One is a tech tree tank and other is a paid for premium tank. I’d say Wargaming are just more careful around that fact.

Also, Chieftain has mostly been fine and I would say there was less interest in giving it such an HE buff whereas the FV215b was in a garbage spot at that time.

[unique scaffold]

Still keeping up the grind I see. Good job. Please wg consider this, that dedicated man is right. From the bottom of my heart, prog 65 is unfairly weak and disappointing right now.

Complaining about mk6 is so petty compared to this that I instantly delete all my questions about it. The tank is fair, goddam. Unlike poor progetto, which needs a nice buff.

Thank you mate, keep the grind

@sharp saddle also I was being ironic and the right answer was: Fv is much slower, and the protection is actually weaker too in some ways; another thing you didn’t take into account is he difference of hulldown capabilities between both. Both are fair with their capabilities, and Fv would be trash without it’s he pen.

Wg should never treat premiums and tech tree tanks differently, especially at tier X. Now everything should be equally balanced (btw bonk the type 71).

Good night fellas

[dry rivet]

T57 needs that thick hull armor back, and 263 needs a gun handling buff. Can’t hit anything at its current state

@sharp saddle which 2? The ones I just talked about? Or ur tea sipping pals up there? 😳

[sharp saddle]

Don’t worry, I am quite familiar with both tanks as they are two of my most played tanks. I didn’t state all factors but just one possibility.

And why shouldn’t Wargaminng treat premiums and tech trees differently? Premiums are paid for, it is logical they get treated differently because of the reluctancy of nerfing them after the fact.

[winged barn]

If it was expected that weegee would actually balance their game, it wouldn't be a problem nerfing them.

But weegee have dug themselves a hole by refusing to nerf even the type of tanks that were introduced to make a loophole to apply nerfs in exchange for gold compensation.

[uneven narwhal]

Yup, all of them are stupid

[round oracle]

F

[silk geode]

Normal conqueror who have 172mm HE pen: hmmm pathetic....

[nimble zodiac]

It’s not 170/187?
It is, you misinformation spreader 😠

[wicked oracle]

Day 53 of asking wg to give the foch 155 640 alpha on the single shot gun

[unique scaffold]

is

[unique scaffold]

Since 9.1 they can get changed tho. Also on average much more op tanks were tech tree (t110e5 then 60tp then 71 then t57 heavy, fv4005, etc. )
121 b is unfunny
Obj 260 is bad
Amx 30b is unfunny
Obj 2684 is bad I’m sorry that thing makes you want to kill yourself i swear, worst tier X to me
T22 medium is just average

It’s not because of concept 1b and obj 907 that you must think all prems are good, on average they historically were weaker to compensate for their credit making abilities, then wg buffed them considering all tier X tanks should be exactly balanced

[upbeat sphinx]

260 is a joke after the E6 was buffed.
It's inferior everywhere to the E6 while having only marginal improvements

[unique scaffold]

True… super conqueror, is another thing tho. I believe it is slightly under powered compared to both other tanks, I mean I know the skill ceiling is lower, but a nice way to make it more relevant without buffing the dpm/ap pen/ accuracy would be giving it the conqueror’s he pen to make it more relevant in good hands

[upbeat sphinx]

Super conqueror has the armour, ok gun and DPM.
Think about that as an e5 that trades gun handling and prem pen for better armour, Hesh and DPM

[silk geode]

Actually t110E5 don't change to much just more faster and WG nerf turn rate

[unique scaffold]

I didn’t say it changed much, it also needs a huge buff right now, I just refer to the time it was op, long long ago 😉

[lean gate]

Day 41 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[spice raptor]

Adding more shell type to the game. Is it suitable for everyone?

[prisma jetty]

What kind of shells would be added?

[vital sedge]

There is actually a lot
APHE ( was used a lot in WW2)
APBC (ballistic cap against angled armor) there is also APCBC (caped ballistic cap)
APSD ( pretty sure would be for t10 only tho cuz of its penetration)
HEAT-FS ( simply HEAT but a lot more accurate)
There is still a lot more that could be added

[grizzled apex]

nerf lorraine

[prisma jetty]

APHE and SAP are covered by the premium AP rounds on the SU-100Y. APBC/APCBC is covered by the premium rounds on the Ho-Ri. Any sort of sabot round is covered by the APCR. HEAT-FS is too modern for the game.

[pallid nest]

Sure, nerf the worst t8 premium autoloader, why not, smart smart...

[vital sedge]

1- i understand your point with APHE/APBC but it would be more fun to have actual variations of ammo having Only 4 types on all tanks is kinda boring
2-HEAT-FS isn't that modern
By mid-1940, Germany introduced the first HEAT-FS (forgot fs here) round to be fired by a gun, the 7.5 cm Gr. 38 Hl/A, (later editions B and C) fired by the KwK.
And The Russians first used HEAT-FS around 1962. What Western countries had during the late 40's and 50's was APDS, Also The Leopard is a main battle tank designed and produced by Porsche in West Germany that first entered service in 1965 so for Russians yeah its a little ahead but not for germans😅

[prisma jetty]

This is the 7.5cm Gr. HI/A. As you can see, there are no fins, making this a HEAT round, not a HEAT-FS round. We already have HEAT rounds in the game.

[vital sedge]

1- i understand your point with APHE/APBC but it would be more fun to have actual variations of ammo having Only 4 types on all tanks is kinda boring
2-HEAT-FS isn't that modern
I have some data on late ww2, fin stabilized heat projectiles (15cm HL/Ausf. C mit Klappleitwerk) for sFh18
And The Russians first used HEAT-FS around 1962. What Western countries had during the late 40's and 50's was APDS, Also The Leopard is a main battle tank designed and produced by Porsche in West Germany that first entered service in 1965 so for Russians yeah its a little ahead but not for germans
Edit:tried to edit the first reposted....😑

[prisma jetty]

Also keep in mind that HEAT-FS rounds have much, much more penetration than normal HEAT rounds. I personally don’t want to see any tank with upwards of 500mm of penetration in the game

[grizzled apex]

"worst"(most annoying) yeah pretty balanced

[pallid nest]

Just because you screwed up and let him put 800 into you once doesn't mean it is a good tank that needs to be nerfed.

[spice raptor]

Those shell should be a pre shell right, since nearly every tank always carry standard AP

[compact nymph]

If you were exposed long enough for that Lorraine to put a whole clip into your vehicle, that’s on you and not the 40t

[prisma jetty]

Lorraine takes 7.5 seconds to unload the full clip. If you sit there for that long, you kinda deserve to get all that damage

[still jackal]

lorraine is quite literally one of the most balanced tier 8 premiums out there

[prisma jetty]

It’s not even balanced, it’s underpowered

[tropic imp]

actually heatfs is already in wotb
you can use heatfs while driving ru-251
although the spec says it is heat but in fact it has extraordinary shell velocity

[uneven narwhal]

Classic "I got nuked so must nerf" excuse

[prisma jetty]

I guess it is an early HEAT-FS round. Therefore, HEAT-FS is already in the game, so all the War Thunder fanboys can stop whining about how little shell types blitz has!

[silk geode]

If WG do an experiment to change E5 gameplay, I hope WG makes him move like a medium,within 1.700.00 engine power and can run with max speed 50km,and for balance his back armor more thinner and his back turret armor

[prisma jetty]

You want to give the E5 30 HP/T? That would give it 23.1hp/t on medium terrain, making it faster than some mediums. This is absolutely ridiculous.

[stuck acorn]

Not really. APBC or APCBC could get for example better normalization values so their better performance against angles is visible. It's not covered in the game.

[prisma jetty]

The Ho-Ri can already pen every tank in the game. I see no reason to make a tank with even more broken penetration than that.

[tropic imp]

SU-100Y players to be like: HELL YEAH lol

[stuck acorn]

@prisma jetty who said we need to give tank better pen lmao? Just increase normalization to 7-10 degrees for these specific types of shell and balance base penetration value depending on tank that is suposed to have this type of shell.

You won't give a T6 tank 300 pen regardless of type of shell it has. It's pretty obvious.

That's the idea. Shell would have comparable/lower amount of pen, but be more effective against angled armour

So bascially it would be very effective when facing tanks like IS-7 or Type 71 based on angles, but very ineffective against german box tanks that rely on thick flat plates

[prisma jetty]

7-10 degrees is a massive amount of normalization. That means that even tanks with low pen will be able to go through very angled plates.

[tropic imp]

Haven't you heard of the normalization bug of the rover last month?
It allowed rover (which is tier 6 t37-based light tank) to penetrate the frontal armor of 60tp even if the rover's penetration of AP shell is 140mm i believe
And it may cause situations like this
Ho ri can penetrate obj.268v4's lower plate with the superior normalization value of normal(not a premium one) AP if both tanks are on the horizontal terrain

@stuck acorn bruh ive just literally checked it through blitzhangar
The effective armor spec of268v4 on horizontal position was 327mm on 31°, didnt take account of normalization value
And APs have 5° of normalization value, which makes the 31° to 26°, and effective armor is 311mm
Lastly, if the APs got 10° of normalization value, 31° is going to be 21°, making effective armor down to nearly 301mm or something and ho ri's standard AP got 310mm of penetration

[stuck acorn]

It won't cause situations like this lmao. Rover got literally 50 degrees of normalisation. that allowed it to negate bascially all reasonable angles.

10 degrees aren't enough for situations like that to happen

10 degrees of normalisation should be enough to allow shell having around 300 pen to go through IS-7's upper plate. Considering these shells would have lower penetration than other types at tanks of same type and tier for me that's not anything broken.

And as i said it doesn't need to be 10. It should be just higher than 5 so this shell is at least somewhat different from notrmal AP

[tropic imp]

@stuck acorn i just missed one pic but you can take a look at it by urself at blitzhangar
5° of normalization is enough for ho ri to pennetrate lower playe of 268v4

@unique scaffold yeah its kinda controversial but still its got super thick frontal lower plate armor right?

[unique scaffold]

Worst tier X tank imo, so easy to beat. A pain to play too. Please remove or huge buff to accuracy, penetration, and roof/cupolas

[stuck acorn]

okay but what does it change? Ho ri can pen everythign anyway. I never said i would give shells with better normalisation to ho ri.

These shells could be given to tanks that had them IRL. For example Tigers. This shell on Tiger 2 could have 200mm of penetration instead of standard 225 but better normalisation. It could be 7 or 8 degrees. It also wouldn't be affected by calibrated shells equipment to make it more fair.

It definetly wouldn't be broken, but would make knowledge about the different shells more important

[slender latch]

Why add more ammunition type when it will just confuse the heck out of the majority plus it's complicated for WG to add since the 4 main ammunition types are already sufficient enough

[stuck acorn]

It's just a possibility to make game more interesting. For now type of ammo barely has any meaning.

Ofc WG probably won't add it, but they could give it a try

[tropic imp]

What does it change?
Ofc even if you angle your tank but still the enemy could pen you its just common sense
And if they really decided to change, what do you expect from the specific criteria?
Just like irl huh?
More than half of tanks in wotb are wg's creation and even if the tank is based on historical research, wg changed the specs of tanks on their own(ex, kpz-70 can shoot atgm and many others)
In that case, the situation is complicated enough
How could you say 'it wont be broken' and just predicate it like that? Give me the evidence

[grizzled apex]

no track, no repair. i also thought the lorraine already shot 2-3 times so i could take 400 damage (in t49)

[unique scaffold]

Type 71 just craves for a huge nerf. Apcr doesn’t work either.

[nimble zodiac]

APCR fails against the lower plate for the same reason AP does: autoricochet angle

[upbeat sphinx]

Buff tier 8 that have 100mm cannons.
Increase their alpha to 310 or slash a second to the reload, increase standard and premium pen by 10/15 mm, and he damage to 400

[scenic zodiac]

I’m a bit late but…

Firstly that tank has no armour.
Anything with more than 60mm of HE pen can destroy it with HE.
Secondly, it’s big target, so easier to hit back then something like bourrasque.
Finally, it has a 20 second reload.
That’s longer than a bourrasque, or even a 183.
There is no reason it should be nerfed.

[real bison]

it takes almost 30s to load and unload, in that time a Progetto 46 does way more than 900 damage

[fiery dagger]

Actually, they kind of do 900 damage under the same amount of time. Progetto does it like 2s faster.

[scenic zodiac]

Only if prog loads his full clip.
He can reload his first shot in more or less 6 secs, so can put in about 5 shots for Lorraine’s 4.
And prog has more alpha.

[real bison]

^

[vital sedge]

Bruh,i just put some examples of tank shells that can be added and the whole thing turned inro a war over here 😂

[mortal shore]

Nerf type 71

[prisma nacelle]

Buff leo1 armor

[river stream]

slightly buff St. Emil base AP pen to 231->235-238 to have a better penning chance against t8 HTs Red tomatoes enhanced armor

[feral juniper]

when is the tvp getting back it’s old stats? who approved the 9.1 changes, it’s completely broken and nobody in the community wants the tank to stay this way. it’s literally a medium wt auf e100 in blitz. nobody asked for this and it needs to be reverted. the fact that you can take a shot from any tank and then just have a tvp yolo you and only take a shot in return and kill you infuriates me.

[mortal shore]

nah tbh i don’t mind it, super easy to counter lmao

[uneven narwhal]

It's broken, there's just no debating it
Why it needed a massive intraclip buff is beyond me, and for some reason that wasn't enough so it also got a mobility and dispersion on firing buff

[silk hamlet]

yeah the drac DEFINITELY needs a spall liner!! (/s)

[turbid ice]

Buff Ferdinand armor 🧠

[unique scaffold]

Actually type 71 is more broken than fv4005 and tvp which is something to say

[silk hamlet]

it really isnt

[spice raptor]

Before 9.0 or not, 4005 still be good on the battlefield

[unique scaffold]

Well armor is impenetrable while Fv has op gun , so it’s armor op ness vs gun op ness; personally I have less trouble dealing with a noob Fv than a noob t71, that’s why I said that

[sleek grove]

all i see is "i have problems dealing with a tank so it must be OP cause i cant be good enough"

[wicked oracle]

day 54 of asking wg to give the foch 155 640 Alpha on the single shot gun

[lean gate]

Day 42 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[twin egret]

I remember the days when you could research another tier 7 using a tier 7, or another tier 6 using a tier 6, KV-2 to get a T-150, or KV-13 to get a T-43

[still jackal]

I really like the new buffs, the tanks did need them (especially AMX, Indien and STA-1)

[bleak furnace]

Or slightly better dpm
Day 1 of asking to buff foch 155's single shot gun

[noble surge]

Hmmm. Played the TVP 50/51 ( T10 ) recently ( just got it after the grind ). OP or balanced?

[tropic imp]

Which tvp are you talking about?

[scarlet fjord]

op

[pallid nest]

This is the kind of thread where I would love to see people's wr indicated next to their nick, it would explain a lot when it comes to their comments...

[autumn zodiac]

Wouldn't matter that much. Would make more sense if it was the win-rate of the vehicle they were talking about

80% of people in this channel would have an N/A because they've never played the vehicle in question

[steel flame]

Idrc if you don’t need the type much, but please just make it pennable with pramo in the upper or lower plate. Also, the cupola needs to stop blocking damage. The tank just can’t be all red ._. I never complain about tanks cause I can usually deal with it, but the type is just a waste of a shot at this point when facing it frontly from a distance

[autumn zodiac]

When you are facing it frontally from a distance

Isn't that how heavies are supposed to be?

[winged barn]

Are heavies supposed to be as fast as mediums?

[autumn zodiac]

According to Wargaming's past balancing doctrine over 2 years yes

After every heavy and their mother got massive hull traverse buffs they are pretty much able to take on mediums in close quarters combat and that's not how it should be.

[uneven narwhal]

I don't see any problem in tanks with more armor, alpha, and HP being as mobile as mediums

[winged barn]

Heavies:
Best class for durability hands down.

Guns that frontally tear anything apart (you know, the td job) with high alpha/pen, while somehow not lacking in any meaningful amount of dpm or accuracy.

Enough mobility to get to choke points and create crossfires and pressure (you know, the medium job)

Has enough view range to peek and spot (you know, the lt job) while having turrets nearly impervious to incoming fire.

But yes
Heavies definitely needed across the board hp buffs.
The only heavy buff I see as somewhat reasonable in the past year[s] was the vk45a, that tank was just sad.
All of the other heavy buffs were implemented only to keep up with other heavy tanks, completely ignoring all the other classes.

[prisma jetty]

Just give the 4202 7,000 HP and make it the anti-heavy.

Why the 4202 you may ask? HESH.

[little hamlet]

Give the 263 10K hps, wdym

[autumn zodiac]

Still won't hit anything

If anything that would be an accuracy nerf

[compact nymph]

Who brought up accuracy? Just give it enough hp to be able to destroy anything in a prolonged ramming contest, Maus included🧠

[winged barn]

Also, what clown thought of the t54 gun adjustment

Increasing the dpm of the pen gun while not touching the dpm gun?

I guess we gotta remove all the choices to appease the noobs.

And a t54 ltwt nerf
Hmmmm
Definitely needed a nerf over heavy tanks in tier 8

[prisma jetty]

Why do you think the Type 71 was added? All noobs have to do is buy the suspension equipment and yolo and they win

[uneven narwhal]

There was a line between heavies and mediums
Wargaming has snorted that line

[steel flame]

Yeah but you should still be able to pen it somewhere 😆. I can pen the is 4 turret cheeks more easily than the type. Furthermore, when the is 4 moves out of a hulldown position it is easy to pen. However, a type often still requires pramo to even pen the hull which is unbalanced. Why do you think the whole tournament meta is types? Not even professional players can reliably pen the tank. I’ve never encountered a problem with penning shots as much as this tank

[dry rivet]

So many scholars here. I just wanna be able hit something in the 263 🧐🥺

[compact nymph]

The 263 won't hit anything regardless, so we might aswell simply remove the gun and give it a truckload of HP. Ramming only from now on

[prisma jetty]

Too bad it’s not that fast anymore so it can’t even ram properly

[winged barn]

Rip madgames nerf

[midnight linden]

And the Chi Se still reigns over t8 lovely wg

[jade cargo]

trubička#9835 was banned

[hearty tinsel]

We are in tho, plus this engine deck is eeeew.
Also like the bar on the top

[mortal shore]

Nerf type 71

[stuck acorn]

That's true. This tank would be fine if weakspots weren't incredibly stupid on this thing. The fact that even hitting a weakspot doesn't guarantee a pen is just dumb.

@winged barn well said again. WG intentionally removes all of the choices players have just to appraise the noobs for few years constantly now. You want to play something different at lower tiers? Oh sry, you can't. Go into that Pz 3 festival. You want to have different guns on you tank to choose from? Oh sorry, we don't do that here. Now instead of 4-5 different guns you have 2. 1 good and one that is a copypaste of the better gun with literally every statistic nerfed to oblivion. You can't choose whatyou want. You need to do what WG wants you to do

That's just incredibly stupid

[mortal shore]

Decrease T-54 ltwt hull armor (by a lot) Increase gun depression by +2 Increase the DPM Decrease turret armor

[scarlet fjord]

its interesting to me how
the 113 is basically a cracked med rn
i mean its DPM is close to a russian med
it has 420 alpha
it has very solid armor
its mobility is more medium like than heavy like
with the traverse nerf it got its only weakness removed
and also got a side armor buff so now it sidescrapes excellently
the tank is truly a monster
dont nerf it btw WG 💀

[steel flame]

It’s really not that great. In comparison to some other heavies, it is quite balanced. The track wheels are easy to destroy, the armor is pennable, and the tank is versatile as it’s role is meant to be as a heavium. While it does have good dpm, you have to be in the right spot to use it or else your trading won’t be as successful. With the dominance of the heavy class, the 113 isn’t cracked but rather balanced compared to other heavy tanks. Tbh the whole heavy class seems to be too dominant right now

[real bison]

heavies have been dominant for some time now, im pretty sure even before the blanket HP buffs

[drowsy plaza]

Since 3.8 sigh

[willow hawk]

Scarcely been hit by a 263 so…makes sense

[willow hawk]

Seems like you’ve been having trouble hitting things too, with that red nose and blush on your face 😉

[mortal shore]

I don’t even play it?? It’s just a suggestion bud, Did I make you mad or something? It’s ok pal mommy is here 😀 No need to mald.

[willow hawk]

🤣 If you don’t even play it, how do you know what to suggest? On what grounds can you make a suggestion? I admire your profession as a jester! 🤡

Add gun depression, decrease armor? Why? The armor isn’t thin enough for you to hit it on the go?

[dry rivet]

No need to argue with him. Let him be.

[mortal shore]

Shut up? You don’t need to make a big deal out of it. Nobody really cares anyway. T54 ltwt is already weak compare to other LTs. It is in need of a buff. A slight buff, not something crazy like what I said. And just let me be, whatever the other person said. Nobody asked for your response. Don’t be a 8 year old sitting on discord

@nimble zodiac That is true
@prisma jetty Well yeah it’s definitely not weak, IMO it just needs a little buff, that’s all. The 9.3 nerf ABSOLUTELY unnecessary, i agree. It’s in more of a buff than a nerf.

[nimble zodiac]

Physical reasons the gun can’t depress more
”OMG this tank NEEDS more gun depression!!!”

[prisma jetty]

The ltwt is definitely not weak. A light tank with armor comparable to a med is rather strong, and it has high alpha to boot. It’s rather good, though I think the 9.3 nerf is entirely unneeded

[willow hawk]

RJ: “Decrease T-54 ltwt hull armor (by a lot) Increase gun depression by +2 Increase the DPM Decrease turret armor”

777: “>Physical reasons the gun can’t depress more

”OMG this tank NEEDS more gun depression!!!” “

Trick: “The ltwt is definitely not weak. A light tank with armor comparable to a med is rather strong, and it has high alpha to boot. It’s rather good, though I think the 9.3 nerf is entirely unneeded”

RJ:
“That is true
Well yeah it’s definitely not weak, IMO it just needs a little buff, that’s all. The 9.3 nerf ABSOLUTELY unnecessary, i agree. It’s in more of a buff than a nerf.”

RJ, you’re not really here to provide any value to this discussion, you’re just here for attention. You make a suggestion, others explain why yours doesn’t make sense, and then suddenly you succumb to what they say. I admire that!!!

[winged barn]

Imagine if we got updated versions of this

I'll just use the old one instead.

Hey look, they are finally buffing the ac48, what took so long?

And let's take a look at this light tank. A ton of stronger heavies have been introduced to the game recently, and a ton of tanks have gotten buffed as well.
Sure the ltwt is strong for a med/light, but those classes get crushed by heavies completely at this tier.

The ltwt didn't get buffed since then, correct?
so why could it possibly need a nerf now

Weegee balancing appears to also have rng

Sure, the changes may be minor and not effect it, but of all the tanks they could spend their time trying to balance, they completely failed

[bleak furnace]

Day 2 of asking to buff foch 155's single shot gun

[dry rivet]

You two need to chill. Stop toying with him @willow hawk
@mortal shore if you’re going to call someone an 8 yr old, perhaps stop acting like one yourself? Even my 5th grade students think that’s an outdated insult.

[mortal shore]

Im not here for attention? it was just a simple comment that I shouldn't have made. Gotta love when these annoying people make big arguments out of everything.
@dry rivet Im trying to mind my own business and I dont want this bro bothering me. im chill, gotta sit back and laugh at these people

All im asking for is a ltwt buff. Not as crazy as what I said but just a little buff. This jedi man needs to calm down. I do realize what I said was stupid, i've been kinda ma
d all day but fr people shouldnt take 1 comment so seriously 💀

[crimson dagger]

Bad news, they’re nerfing the T-54 ltwt. for some reason, and I’ll say this, it’s stupid.

It’s dpm is already lower than quite a few of the mediums and lights at equal tier and it’s armour allows it to maintain some competition against the other equal or higher tier tanks.

Not to mention the low ammunition capacity and average penetration values.

It’s a tank that requires quite a high skill threshold and the nerf is completely unnecessary as it’s going to wreck the tank to a painful play level to just achieve effectively, in it’s already limited potential. #tank-balance-discussion

@mortal shore

[mortal shore]

Bruhhhhhhhh, that sucks. I mean its fun to play but, that just sucks.

[outer glen]

Another useless and unnecessary nerfs from wg
ltwt is an average light tank with high alpha but low pen why are they nerfing the dpm that are already average?

The tank armor already got nerfed indirectly with the pbr model

[tight ravine]

bring back the 50b's accuracy 💀

[upbeat sphinx]

high alpha
280 is not high alpha, judging that prog 46 has 240.
The alpha for 100mm needs to be changed imho, to 290/310 like recently tanks (titan 54 d, obj 274a)

[prisma jetty]

Judging that the average med/light alpha of tier 8 is 225, the LTWT does indeed have high alpha with its 280.

[upbeat sphinx]

225 for some, but again for some 90mm have 240.
As i said dozens of times, i would standardize the damage for meds at tier 8:
-90mm gets 240 alpha.
-100mm gets 310 alpha.

[twin egret]

But somehow the STB-1 can now get -11 gun depression in wotb

[scarlet fjord]

If only this channel was locked for everyone under 55% career...

[lean gate]

Day 43 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[vapid jacinth]

T-54 ltet got nerfed, let us protest infront of wg hq.

[turbid ice]

I played ltwt yesterday in Burning Games, it’s definitely strong
It got 88 of rotation with 100% crew, two motors and the rotation module
I kinda hate the fact of nerfing the reload

[raw geyser]

I’m a bit lazy to read, what are they nerfing on it ?

[uneven narwhal]

#coming-soon

[crimson dagger]

Haven’t mentioned the actual statistics idk why but there was no specific explanation as to why. and regardless it was fine unless it’s and extremely rare circumstance which I doubt.

the nerf is defined as of now:

“Slightly decreased DPM, turret and hull armour”.

[hearty tinsel]

Buff VK72 and Nerf fv183

[scarlet fjord]

if you want a riot go ahead and nerf 183

[fickle light]

What did 263 do to receive a speed nerf? It literally the stand out feature for it. A high speed amoured TD(with enough weakspot) with high dpm and below average accuracy

[night geode]

buff super pershing for god sake

[solid scaffold]

I agreed, they nerfed the mobility without buffing accuracy in return, just 10mm of pen. Which i would say is nearly useless to an assault td.
Not to mention that extra pen doesn't matter if your shells hit dirt instead

[mortal shore]

Nerf type 71

[fathom glacier]

Day 1 of asking to nerf type 71 armour

[feral juniper]

day 1 of telling people in here begging for nerfs that they will never come at least in the correct form, wg does not and never will genuinely read and consider balance suggestions in here.

[nimble zodiac]

Rule-bending chat flood 😗

[unique scaffold]

263 was perfect.
Perfect.
I'm really heartbroken they randomly chose to nerf some tanks that were fine and buff some others that were fine.

[hearty tinsel]

It wasn't at all my friend. It lack of accuracy and armour.

There are a few options to buff that tank imo, and these are:

• option one: buff the accuracy and slightly the gun mantlet again for a better long rage gameplay, pretty passive and camping. (Possible add also a reticle calibration consumable, which would be cool so it can be similar to grille15 gameplay);

• options two: keep the accuracy as it is, make the tank more armoured and more a frontline tank destroyer with huge frontal armour, and a good sidescreap ability. (Possible add a reactive armour consumable, which is cool like the point above, and this would make it more similar to obj267/v4).
  What do you think?

[ruby lark]

Hi guy's

[feral juniper]

option 0, the tank already very good before 9.1, and it has plenty of armor to make it work, other than the engine deck. it wasn’t meant to be accurate because it was a frontlining td that could hold off flanks and push mediums that couldn’t overmatch it. never meant to be a sniper.

if you really want a good balance of both just play the ho ri lmao
good armor, world class gun with serious snapshot capability and has the highest base penetrations in the game, with a close second to the 268 if it runs calibrated, and grille levels of dpm, it turns on a dime and has superb mobility. super capable as a passive sniping powerhouse and great at aggressive frontlining.

[hearty tinsel]

Then why noone was basically playing it even before this last nerf? Because it's become obsolete. And it's not because of type meta, absolutely. The tank is and was totally garbage, and I'm not a random 40%

[unique scaffold]

@vultro

[prisma wave]

Hello and good evening to all

I would like to know if at some point the TD's will have the same life as in WOT PC.

For example:

T110E4 (Blitz) 1750 life points - T110E4 (PC) 2000 life points.

T110E3 (Blitz) 1800 health points - T110E3 (PC) 2050 health points.

Grille 15 (Blitz) 1700 hit points - Grille 15 (PC) 1800 hit points.

Jg.Pz. E100 (Blitz) 2150 points of life - Jg.Pz. E100 (PC) 2200 points of life.

Obj. 268 (Blitz) 1800 health points - Obj. 268 (PC) 1950 health points.

FV215B 183 (Blitz) 1800 hit points - FV215B 183 (PC) 2000 hit points.

FV4005 (Blitz) 1800 points of life - FV4005 (PC) 1850 points of life.

Ho-Ri (Blitz) 1750 points of life - In this particular case, this tank has no counterpart in PC (so far) but if it were the case and it did, its life should be between 1950 and 2000.

WZ-113G FT (Blitz) 1800 points of life - WZ-113G FT (PC) 2100 points of life.

In cases like Obj. 263 and AMX 50 Foch (155) its life is equal in both Blitz and PC.

More than anything the life increase should be given to them to make them more competitive, also to be seen and used both in casual and tournaments, since usually the other classes are usually used and TD's are rarely seen in major tournaments.

[elfin brook]

jag e100 and e3 buffs are unecsessary cuz it is completly balance tho , how you supposed to deal with those tough 2200 hp with 800 alpha dmg as hts ??? you need to think about how other tanks are feeling when this freaking DOOM thing got HP buff??

[midnight plover]

Even nerfing their speed to balance wouldn't help as many maps are small, holding key points would be enough to rip apart enemy.

[prisma wave]

If what you say is true because the Jg.Pz. E100 and the T110E3 are not seen in important tournaments (only a lot of HEAVY TANK is seen and very little of the other classes) and imagine if they are not seen in tournaments of that level neither the Jg.Pz. E100 nor the T110E3 much less the other TD's are seen.

At the time the heavies got a super life buff and nobody said anything, on the contrary they were very grateful, but when someone like me tries to ask if it is possible to do the same for the TD's they start complaining and saying that it is not necessary (when it really is), that is called double standards.

And to refresh your memory here is the article about the life buffers for heavy tanks:

https://na.wotblitz.com/en/news/updates/vehicle-changes-6-9/

[elfin brook]

they are not in tourament because most pros clan will use type 71 and who else will use this turtle thing ??? they will be free dmg for enemy cuz tourament need the speed and armor not speed and HP

[winged barn]

If a tank lacks a turret, it becomes really, really weak against coordinated opponents. Tournaments at any meaningful level are nothing but coordinated attacksthat an e3 cannot counter

Put an e3 at the end of a pubs corridor and it turns it into a kill zone, but noobs don't realize that and still drive in front of the pointy end of it. This doesn't happen in tournaments.

Also the across the board heavy hp buffs when the game was (still is) heavy tank dominated was insanely stupid and plenty of people called them out for it.

[uneven narwhal]

TD Buffs 😂

[winter plover]

I dont get why you want a buff on obj. 263, even more an armor buff. The thing are almost invulnerable to med prammo, the weakspots arent even very large to be considered "balancing factor".
Mid range with the lfp hidden its almost invulnerable frontally, flanking isnt always the case since tds usually go with other teammates.

Engine deck armor isnt an issue as long as you dont position yourself on a lower ground against other tanks, And its agile enough to wiggle making the small frontal weakspots even harder to hit.

And i forgot that you toni are only here to troll, might aswell just find another thing to do that isnt to gather attention.

@indigo tinsel i think thats the main drawback of the tank, given that its a frontline tank and would face tanks in close range with accompanying teammates.

[indigo tinsel]

it just needs to not have trash gun handling

[hearty steeple]

I liked the 263 before the mobility nerf, before the gun nerf and before the armor buff.

[thick rover]

yea...

[tropic imp]

It had been kinda op tank back then right?

[mortal shore]

day 4 of asking WG to nerf type 71

[uneven narwhal]

???

[nimble zodiac]

Fair enough, this is his first time counting the days

[dry rivet]

type 71 owners are going to be livid…

So…Day 1 of asking WG to buff Type 71

Has been nerfed even before it was released #373091204038000650 message

[uneven narwhal]

Has been nerfed before release
Doesn't make it balanced

[lean gate]

Day 44 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[vocal pumice]

maus pls buff just he is slow and his gun is not good

[fathom glacier]

Day 2 of asking to nerf type 71 armour

[outer glen]

this channel is for entertainment only
Kinda
Anyway i dont want wg to nerf the ltwt completely unnecessary nerfs why touch the average tank again

[pallid nest]

Devs couldn't care less about what any of you say here, so yeah...

It is for entertainment and for 40% players demanding nerfs after they get spanked by any tank whatsoever as a result of their terrible play.

[fierce dirge]

Where did you get the stats from?

[uneven narwhal]

They used to post those in #devs-answers

[hearty steeple]

They stopped a year ago. Not that those charts told a complete story but they were still nice to have and see

[hearty tinsel]

Well that explains why a lot of ppl play the tank rn and used to play before the nerf. 100%. Ur right for sure sorry if I'm wrong. Probably ur batter than me at the game idk

[mortal shore]

to be fair i didn’t really count it before lmao

[next quail]

Day 174950192 of asking wg to buff centurion 1

[mental pasture]

It remembers me how I count reps on the gym

1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 5, 6, 6, 6, 7, 8, 9, 9.5, 10

[stone gull]

is amx 13 90 is bad?
im struggling a lot but 13 75 was so much better compared to 13 90

[twilit meteor]

yes it's pretty awful bourrasque is just better really, essentially you gotta be a rat sniper instead of making maneuvers

[stuck ice]

Buff the T69 penetration or turret armor, that thing was horrible. It has suffered so much power creep it's insane, i think it definitely needs a buff to keep up with the tanks it faces today, it has like tier VII performance at tier VIII. Or maybe I'm just bad 🤷‍♂️

[stuck acorn]

i guess it's the second option. T69 isn't a good tank, but not that bad either

Pen is fine. It's an autoloader so you will be using calibrated with it all the time. Your AP pen is slightly below average for a T8 medium, but the gold pen is better than in some heavies. If i was to change anything about this tank it would be speed or clip reload time

[stuck ice]

I guess the thing that's really lackluster about the tank is its penetration, if they just buffed that i think it would be a good tank

[wicked oracle]

day 53 of asking wg to give the foch 155 640 alpha on the single shot gun

[fickle glade]

Day 1 of asking to nerf ISU-152, since the germany TD line nerf @real bison, idk i feel that TD needs a dpm nerf, 12s for that gun is a littlebit op @nimble zodiac

[real bison]

when did the 152 need a nerf

[safe rapids]

Never

[nimble zodiac]

Problem, if you’re saying it because of Germany’s consistency, then you’re asking it to be buffed to 670, to match with 268 🤷‍♂️

The entire point of ISU is the gun, it’s terrible otherwise. Rhm at least has a turret to position with. Not to mention that ISU effectively trades even with 122mm heavies, and ISU can’t just back up into cover like Rhm can, not without dealing with the sluggish traverse first

And to be ever more picky, ISU has a 152mm, and Rhm has a 150mm :p

We’re talking tier 8 TDs that remain in the same tier. An argument you have is AMX’s 130mm doing 20 more damage than IS-7’s 130mm

Better yet, your E3’s 155mm gun deals 680
Just E3*

[fickle glade]

Taking that argument, tank destroyers with 155mm guns should do more damage, right? (don't take this as a fight or anything like that i just want to see if i'm wrong)

[real bison]

ISU 152 is fine as it is

its got worse camo than the borsig, including after shot

plus it reverses at 12kph, and has worse effective hp/t due to worse terrain resistances

and dont underestimate how strong a turret is on TDs

[fickle light]

On move dispersion buff is pretty much needed for a mobile tank like 263

[turbid ice]

ISU-152 is fine

[safe rapids]

Generally calibers and alpha damages don’t have to fully line up, it makes more sense to do what is more sensible for balance rather than a basic same alpha for all guns with the same caliber rule.

[turbid ice]

"Tanks destroyers with 155mm guns should do more damage"
So Foch 155 should get a higher alpha or a faster reload I suppose ? I mean if _Apple’s suggestion was applied then yeah why not but still…

[unreal coyote]

Chi Nu Kai needs a buff, if that thing costs 10k gold

[willow hawk]

It’s a big 🤣 when we all realize this was just WG’s grand plan for us to argue and fight amongst ourselves about how to balance tanks, while they sit back and do whatever the # they want with tanks.

[boreal narwhal]

There should be a specific currency for premium ammo (not standard credits and not gold) that isn’t affected by boosters, premium time, premium vehicles, not affected by tier, and cannot be obtained via credit/gold/xp conversion. It would even the playing field for people who play for free and those who pay. true skill would shine for those who have what it takes and not how much credit loss they can deal with

[unique burrow]

Much better is, that the Prime ammo get deleted… like it was in the complet begin… or that it is only gold agin… so less people ply with Prime ammo…
(Maybe make a game mode out of it)

[boreal narwhal]

I wish that to be but I doubt it could be removed fully or in other words, if it cannot be removed make it as balanced as possible

[boreal narwhal]

The damage nerf from what I’ve realized more so over time is that it didn’t reduce premium ammo usage but rather increased it (TL;DR this part. induced demand, look it up) why? Because it’s more “balanced” or it at least appears to be so (I didn’t exactly pull out a study it’s just I’ve played the game since like 2014). Think, ”well it’s okay if I use it/ use it more because it’s balanced if they want to kill me with regular ammo they can of course if they can hit/pen me that is” (which is the more devious side to it) . Sure it’s better than getting the full damage but before the nerf there was some level of sportsman ship to not shooting gold (it didn’t stop people from using it they just used it slightly less so).

[uneven narwhal]

lmaoooo

[compact nymph]

Oh yeah, let's make heavies even stronger against anything that isn't a super high pen TD
Yoloed by a Type 71 and prammo doesn't exist anymore? Massive skill issue on you bud🧠

[boreal narwhal]

Do you think spamming gold is preventing tanks with OP armour from being put in the game just a thought or in other words the constant usage of premium ammo is creating a sort of arms race; people complain about gold ammo, they introduce a tank that reduces or prevents the chances of higher penetrating ammo from going through which in effect increases the amount of people using gold and so and so forth

[unique burrow]

I mean… when whe hand’s Prime ammo, the Armor of the Type wouldn‘t be such op… the reason is, that even E100 can‘t Penn it at mid range with prime… the use aginst it is almost zero… also with out prime, weeksptos become more important… and Heavy tanks can make there use better… remember before the buff of E100, when you use Prime ammo, the Armor was useless… in the end Wg, will not change… but to make it balanced, the damage should be reduced more, so haveays don‘t suffer that hard

[uneven narwhal]

so your solution to remove this non existent "p2w bias" for prammo is to introduce p2w bias for prammo by making it only available for gold?
can I have what you're smoking

[compact nymph]

"So heavies don't suffer that hard"
Tell me you are a heavy tank main without telling me you are a heavy tank main.
Damn, it's almost as if heavies had been the dominant class since update 3.8

[boreal narwhal]

Explain?

[unique burrow]

In the begin of the game, it was like this… Prime ammo was in the begin Super less used, because you need to pay gold… also Armor isn‘t balanced at all at some tank… like playing T2020 it has Armor aginst Ap but not aginst ani prime… and the Armor is even that hard angered, that APCR should Penn, what it does… at the same time Is-7 or Objekt U has the same angel on the front picke, and it don‘t get penned by Prime

[nimble zodiac]

They don't have the same angle and thickness on their pike noses...
That's why shells succeed or fail to penetrate depending on the tank...

[uneven narwhal]

Okay but how is that going to solve literally any problems??

[mental haven]

ye ye ye, prammo deleted 🥱

[unique burrow]

Heavy tank with good armor = Prime ammo
Can‘t Penn the cupola with Ap = Prime ammo
Every time you can‘t Penn you use prime… where is the skill?

[uneven narwhal]

1. Credits are easily earned
2. "P2W" players don't get an advantage due to point 1
3. This is one of the dumbest suggestions I've ever seen
4. "True Skill" 😂
5. Refer to point 3
6. Refer to point 5

Prammo is already balanced, you pay for a increase in penetration at the cost of alpha

@unique burrow So essentially you want to buff heavy tanks, which are already the most dominant class in the game? Are you for real?

Plus, using prammo doesn't guarantee a penetration, and using it also lowers your DPM, since the alpha for a prammo round is generally lesser than that of standard

[mental haven]

skill = mastery badge = credit = prammo

🥱

[fathom glacier]

Wot PC player like:

[boreal narwhal]

1. Credits being easily earned doesn’t reduce premium ammo usage

2. Premium players can deal with premium ammo costs easier than free to play and increase their wins (by keeping the chances of winning more constant)

3. Premium ammo doing less damage (especially with the cost) doesn’t tell players to use it less but rather more offsetting it’s “balance”

4. Points 3, 4, 5, and 6 are to be dismissed as they serve no purpose and show you aren’t actually here for a constructive argument

5. Isolating premium ammo more allows to better balance heavies. slightly making it harder to be used over time along side with reducing armour levels, adding weak spots, and out right not introducing OP tanks

[unique burrow]

Ok… you say, you get more credits out of the Prime ammo… this point only is, when you have Prieme account… when not, you make no credits and more lose… also, the classes of tanks, are less important, so a tank like Amx 13 75 can kill a super heavy tank, with Prime ammo, what isn‘t Realy wanted (realism)… also the damage is still to massiv, from APCR/Heat… maybe don‘t delete it, like more balance it… Heat or Aprc, should make even less damage, because no explosiv filler… Prime Ap, has after Wg ballistic cap and more filler = so the damage and Penn is better… and besh, is besh

[nimble zodiac]

1. Premium ammo shouldn't be an issue for even a f2p player, as they have many means to get hold onto premium tanks for free

2. Due to this availability of credits to buy prammo, a f2p player can maintain wins like a paying player would, as if one player using prammo plays that huge a role in winning 🙄

3. Premium ammo doing less damage encourages its use? What is that logic?

4. This proposal to make it currency-isolated doesn't mean anything for tank balance

@unique burrow No idea why you're telling me this

[uneven narwhal]

• Why is prammo even a problem, that reducing it's usage will lead to better games?

• Premium players can deal with literally everything better than f2ps

• Been playing for 4+ years being completely F2P and credits has never been an issue for me. Premium Account is gifted so much in events, clan missions, BPs, that you can practically always have it if you play daily

[unique burrow]

The prime ammo aprc and Heat have no explosive filler or explosive damage to the Armor… the damage is less… Ap shells explode inside of the tank and Besh uses the Armor as Damge… the damage of the Armor is a Spliter effect, that damages the crow and brakes the hull… the APCR has only the spliter effect of the Armor it penns… heat hits the Armor and uses a small filler, that pens a small area of the tank with high Penn

[boreal narwhal]

1. 1 was already addressed

2. It’s increases your chance of winning its does not guarantee, there is a difference but either way it should be reduced

3. 3 it’s called an offset you seem to not understand what that means

4. The reason is to make tanks to play more towards their role; we have classes of tank you know that right?

5. 4 Yes it does as mentioned prior the reason for OP heavies being introduced more and more is because of premium ammo usage (an arms race do I also have to explain what that is). Premium ammo plays a key role in OP tanks being introduced if you can’t see that than I don’t know how you see

[uneven narwhal]

So by removing prammo, you will;

• Destabilize the entire balance of the game, while ***hoping ***that Wargaming won't add tanks with dumb armor anymore
• Have existing tanks go from having decent-good armor to having broken armor in the game (mainly german superheavies)
• Dumb down the game by only having standard and HE to fire

By introducing a separate currency for prammo

• You ensure that WG will make it much more easily accessible to paying players, thus increasing this non existent gap

Just because the 71 has been introduced, along with the Mino, this suddenly means that prammo needs to be removed?

@nimble zodiac Yup, Phanter's first message in this discussion
lmaoooo

[nimble zodiac]

1. The usage of prammo isn't the problem. It's a key aspect of the game

2. Everyone has access to this increased chance of winning

3. Premium ammo being fired commonly isn't part of balance

4. Tanks play their role anyways, with your silly idea or not.

5. OP heavies are introduced because they're the newest tech tree tanks, it's part of WG's trick to get players to shell out resources to get these tanks while they're still performing well before a nerf.

@uneven narwhal woah people were talking about removing it? Phanter can barely speak English, sorry.

[boreal narwhal]

1. I understand that is a key aspect of the game but what is that aspect? Throw it a problem you can’t deal with until you can? (It should be used in emergency based instances not as mentioned where it is often used)

2. Everyone does but not everyone can sustain it

3. It isn’t? How? It’s right there it gets used and plays a factor in a game (also you contradicted yourself with this one “key aspect” part specifically)

4. The only reason relative to that is that they have have the base characteristics (heavy tanks are slow who would have thunk). How well they fulfill those characteristics is poorer for some tanks (notably heavies but that isn’t to say there isn’t issues there) and better for others

5. 5 yes that is a factor but it is one factor out of all of it and preventing that factor is a goal worth attaining unless that isn’t what you want

[nimble zodiac]

1. It's often used because people are lazy, and don't want to aim as precisely to hit weakspots. I barely need prammo in my games

2. Back to experience, I don't need to use it that much at all, so I'm not shelling out my credit balance every game because I'm responsible. People pay for being lazy.

3. It's a factor in the game, yes, but because people can use it doesn't mean anything for balance. Especially since everyone has a reason to be able to.

Your whole idea crumbles because it's quite easy to be able to use prammo, with generous events and credit-earning boosters constantly bombarding your garage.

4. The premium ammo itself is a balance factor, which I believe is what you wanted to hit on. But yet again, everyone has the option, and those who don't clearly had opportunities to make it an option. The tank's balance isn't affected by your choice of prammo usage.

5. Most heavies have weakspots against standard ammunition, and if they use an advantageous position for their armor against you, then prammo may be necessary to deal some damage other than splashing them. In any case, these heavies aren't affected because people can use prammo, they're affected by how effective the prammo itself is.

[unique burrow]

The prime ammo in this game is like the reason why the Maus is „Removed“ in War Thunder the ATMG (in this point prime ammo) make the Maus amor in War Thunder useless… you can flank the tank and Penn it with Ap on the side… this is a larg weekspot, and the Maus mobility isn‘t the best… in this game you can Penn the Maus Front with prime… why you need good Armored tanks, when the Armor has no use

[scarlet fjord]

I believe WG balanced out premium ammo perfectly in blitz and it works as intended
Wot pc is a perfect example of pramo being a problem because people load only gold and play like that every game cuz it doesn't impact performance negatively

[wicked quest]

Speech 100 it amazes me they’ve had two HE reworks and still choose to ignore even just lowering gold alpha

[uneven narwhal]

"flank"
🤣

[boreal narwhal]

1. Lazy people are okay now?

2. It’s a factor in tank balance can you actually explain to me why it does beyond “people have access to it” (example: people have access to tanks like the E50M does that mean it doesn’t mean anything for balance?)

3. My idea isn’t just about how hard it is to get although again premium players get more premium ammo it’s about how much it’s used

4. Yes heavy tanks have weak spots but you seem to be okay with the idea that wg introduces OP tanks and then nerfs them later (or doesn’t)

5. You have contradicted yourself again with 3 and 4

6. 4 yes it does HEAT, APCR, AP+, HESH have differing characteristics also a tank with 300mm premium pen is worse than a tank with 340mm of premium (relatively speaking)

7. Improving tank dynamics and why we play certain tanks is what the key goal is here not simply who has access (but it doesn’t hurt to even the playing field on that, wouldn’t you agree?)

8. (Not really a point just a generally concept) wotb is a machine it isn’t just individual separate moving parts that don’t interact with each other acting like they don’t insures that the game is to become worse and worse overtime you find out the weakness in the machine to improve its effectiveness as a whole

[unique burrow]

Yes it‘s more balanced in blitz then on pc… but, the end damage and „Armor reduce“ is like, you don‘t need a tank with good Armor, these get useless… the point is, that the damge of the spacfic Ammo, is in all to unbalanced… a light tank shouldn‘t be supposed to Penn a Heavy tank with 300mm angeled Armor, only using prime on a 90mm…
When a Med with a long 90mm uses prime ammo, it‘s more logic…

[nimble zodiac]

Honestly, I'm not gonna make a tree of this dumb discussion. Your idea is terrible, and punishes players more than assists them

Credits are easily available, all players can use prammo. If you can't, then that's either because you irresponsibly destroyed your balance with a new tank purchase, or perform so badly that earning credits is a legitimate struggle. If your system does anything, it just slightly discourages purchases because the benefit of gaining credits doesn't apply to prammo anymore.

For the OP heavy intros, it's not like we can do anything about it, WG as a business will continue to liven up their game with spicy tanks to keep it active.

@unique burrow Maus is just inherently badly designed to be effective in Blitz 🤷‍♂️
Especially with 3CRB

[wicked quest]

Prem ammo has existed since the dawn of the game and it’s a vital part of the game to say premium players have better access to it is a moot point because credits and prices do not drive any players away minus the ones that actually suck at budgeting (a shocking amount here) wargaming has been called out numerous times on this “arms race” long ago mediums used to be the dominant class of tanks with Russian mediums having their old 340 mm heat and most of the heavies were equal but lacked dpm , armor and the health they posses now. The type 71 was the worst offender as during testing it’s armor was even thicker and wargaming likes to be open yet vague on how their testing works they claimed or Atleast imply whenever they test a tanks statistics there will be changes done during testing before it’s released the amx 30 B went through 4 iterations however there’s photos of Type in testing where even on downhill angles and even flat on lower plate angles it’s cherry red and when it hit battles it was utterly ridiculous even the front upper plate could only be penetrated by very specific tanks as it’s release date was coming to a close and with the “data” of making its front upper plate incredibly stupid (which is a stupid idea on its own) they still didn’t change it worse so they made the tank untrackable

[boreal narwhal]

You seem to think it would only punish it could at its first implementation be basically as it functions now easily accessible to everyone. Tweaking and adjusting it to make it fit just right over time. You’re so premeditated on this idea that it would only be designed to punish players when you seem to not understand the idea of balance as a whole and how that functions as a result. I am not going to continue on this either if you keep going on with that idea

[raw geyser]

Dayum nice premium ammo essays ya’ll

[nimble zodiac]

The problem is that implementing this idea does no good, and serves only those irresponsible players who excessively sling prammo and wonder why they go broke.

You imply that there's a decent disparity between those who can and can't use prammo as much as they need to, which proceeds to run into the idea of balance. But my thought is that it's not affecting balance at all because every reasonable player is able to use prammo when they need to.

Even if this system was to be implemented, WG wouldn't bother managing the rates of prammo awarding between different tanks, as they demand different rates of usage for prammo. The whole point was the use some credits to get a shell that penetrates extra armor, but deals less damage, and the tradeoff is made.

@wicked quest Please, use more punctuation, the run-on sentence is real 😭

I'm gonna sleep, though. I'll continue afterwards.

[unique burrow]

I played the game till now only on 4 tanks with prime… the rest I play with out… and my WR is quit good, because I know the weekspots and weeknesses of a tank

[brazen sequoia]

This channel should be recalled “pramo-discussion” lol

[scarlet fjord]

It's literally heavy meta still
you find a light penning an angled heavy out in the open (with premium or even without) a problem?
This is a waste of ur time and ours

[scarlet fjord]

also
the simple fact that average players (which aren't impressive) need to consider whether they load AP for more damage or gold to guarantee the pen in a split second scenario can give you an edge
people misjudging and using standard ammo gives you bounces
even if they fired gold ammo and low roll significantly giving you that 1 extra opportunity to fire which could be game changing
etc etc
there are tanks that make armor irrelevant
but generally speaking armor is very very effective at the moment even in the nuke meta we have in pubs

[solid scaffold]

If prammo is removed then they would have to rebalance pretty much every tier. Just look at 9.1 update, only tier 10 was touched and some of them became op and some were nerfed to the ground.
I can't imagine them rebalancing every tiers without screwing up any tanks

[fathom glacier]

Day 3 of asking to nerf type 71 armour

[unique burrow]

First… some tanks need to be rebalanced… like E100 the turret was even more worse, then the one of the Maus, even if the E100 angled perfect… some tanks are stronger but the team play are much more important, and the skill too… yeah some tanks aren‘t that good anymore but it‘s more balanced and you can‘t really rush trough the teams anymore

[unique scaffold]

"The run on sentence is real" 👌😂 Reading through this prammo debate just about gave me an eye ache, please think through what you're trying to say before typing and then formulate it clearly 😬 the discussion is barely understandable

[solid scaffold]

Some, enough said, why would they remove prammo just to rebalance everything then, they can just keep it and slowly rebalance each of them

[unique burrow]

With this I‘m ok

[lean gate]

Day 45 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[prisma jetty]

Quick correction: most tanks in game don’t have APHE rounds, they just have AP rounds. They are solid shot round that don’t have explosive filler, they just rely on the projectile and any spalling that happens to deal damage.

[night geode]

day unknown of asking wg to give foch 640 alpha but they don't give a...😂

[scarlet fjord]

give foch 155 single shot gun 640 alpha

[cursive schooner]

Bruh heat literally means high explosive anti tank (ammo) so yeah what’s the part where it doesn’t explode

[real bison]

HEAT's explosion occurs inside the shell to form the copper jet that penetrates the armour

HEAT, despite its name, is a kinetic munition that isn't affected by distance, unlike AP or APCR. The reason why it's pen isn't affected is because HEAT relies on forming a copper jet by use of a shaped charge (which is why RPG-7 rockets/ Panzerfaust rockets look that way, they're shaped to help form the copper jet that will pierce the armour)

[wicked oracle]

Day 54 of asking wg to give the foch 155 640 alpha on the single shot gun

[hearty steeple]

Day 0 of asking for buffs for tanks that need buffing and nerfs for tanks that need nerfing.

[unique scaffold]

Buff Superpershing Speed Just A Tad

[willow hawk]

Problem isn’t about speed, it’s engine power and terrain resistance, it goes realll slow uphill and just skates down 40 km/h downhill

[nimble zodiac]

I mean, buffing resistance and engine power falls under buffing the speed, no?

[light ivy]

Yes

[autumn zodiac]

It actually needs both, it's mobility is worse than T26E5

Compare the two vehicles and get ready for a good time

[unique scaffold]

Ah

[willow hawk]

What I meant here is speed isn’t the issue, getting UP TO speed is the issue. If one is going to resolve an issue, solve it from its origin.

SuperPershing possesses the ability of achieving high speeds, therefore speed is not the root problem.

The root problem is that it struggles to achieve high speeds because it can’t go uphill and tackle varying terrain. So, two approaches:

A) terrain resistance (tank suspension/treads are the responsible components)
And
B) a weak engine needs more horsepower

One approach (engine) produces the necessary power for the tank to go high speeds and mitigate terrain variation, the other (tracks) makes the former more effective and facilitates

[nimble zodiac]

Well, top speed wasn’t specified, so their suggestion could have applied to anything related to the tank’s mobility

[unique burrow]

@cursive schooner look at yt can‘t send here the link and you don‘t allow dm… but heat don‘t explodes inside, but on the hull of the tank

[pearl isle]

Pls buff the aim time of fv215b

[unique scaffold]

Lol no

BUT buff the aim time of progetto, that is legit and needed !

[peak merlin]

give 30b leo 1 gun 😩

[nimble zodiac]

Now that’s just a complete shove to the Leo 💀

[midnight linden]

The guns already good enough in performance and gun handling

[pearl isle]

183

💪

[uneven narwhal]

183 🤮

[leaden ember]

Hey I think that wg should buff the pz v/iv turret armor does any one agree??

[lean gate]

Day 46 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[prisma jetty]

Nah, it’s already a good tank, no need to make it better

[verbal igloo]

its a e50m in tier 5 you can bully bad players so much in it

[stuck acorn]

*you could.

Now this tank is just garbage as everybody learnt that turret shot = pen, and even hull armor isn't that good anymore. Gun is also just average. It used to trade it's pen value for DPM, but after WG equalized all tanks below T6 into boring trash it lost it's point.

For me this and every other tank at T4-5 should get significant buffs/nerfs to some parameteres to at least somewhat differ them from each other

In case of this tank i would buff UFP and DPM, but nerfed pen and accuracy

[scarlet fjord]

yeah but it will still be slow on hilly terrain so its a better choice to work on the terrain resistances is what he meant i think

[spice raptor]

Woah guy there could be more shell type coming to the game

[nimble zodiac]

First guy said buff the speed, which could mean anything for mobility 😅

[ebon lynx]

I remember they wanted to nerf the top speed

[scarlet fjord]

true

[night geode]

give kran gear oil

[uneven narwhal]

No, it's already great

[scarlet fjord]

people legit asking for kran buffs 💀

[uneven narwhal]

The impenetrable turret isn't enough

[unique scaffold]

Guys I need you to tell me nice things about fv4202. Recently I thought I performed better in wz 121 and now I keep thinking wz 121 is just a better, more efficient fv without depression. What you think ?

Fv is great but it is kind of hard to connect he shots reliably without the calibrated shell equipments especially when you want to do this frontally

So let’s take those stats, compare them and you’ll see that wz has 245 pen vs 231, more dpm, actually a better accuracy (since update), a real turret armor (Fv’s is better than before but come on, I never ever bounce when I aim it), and actually a better mobility (less max speed but more hp/ton since update)

The only thing the fv has over it is depression which is kind of negated by the lack of turret armor

[orchid grove]

The big difference is that 4202 can snapshot (kinda) and 121 cannot, which gives 4202 a lot more flexibility as a med

[unique scaffold]

Yup I think you’ve got it there. But I have one and only one protest on that subject, as in 9.1, the armor was buffed in exchange of the dispersion being reduced. But on the turret that armor is to no avail. It is still very easy to shot the two big autopen plates. It don’t really get any bounces tbh, except from sheridans or sometimes bc.

But yes you’re right, the flexibility is superior, wz121 has always been a monster on paper while It needs to stay put and aim in practice. Although for me it’s easier and the Fv’s flaws actually make it harder to use on that aspect;

I guess the key is to consider the fv not as a high alpha med but rather as a casually he-using med, and mostly as an all around fast med. It is true, that although it is kind of crappy, and pays a lot, to be able to have the huge hesh (nothing special apart from it, anecdotal turret armor, nice speed cap but kind of low hp/ton, big, kind of unaccurate now, HE doesn’t connect quite as often as expected., and most of all NO APCR is very painful, also you kind of have to use calibrated waisting dpm) it is still an alright tank.

@unique scaffold

True, good point, sorry for that mistake. But I assume wz is using rammer and Fv using cali so the difference isn’t that big I shall calculate.
Well bro, you answered to my question, you reassured me. There it is. The fv has a better dpm, neatly, at 3,8k vs 3,4 k.
There is still the weakness of Hesh, and the 231 penetration, but I guess that is fair.

[unique scaffold]

The turret armour is good on the wz but certainly not impenetrable, however for sure it’s far superior to the fv. Also the FV pen of 231 is with HESH (with CS I guess) which means it fires every 7.? Secs with 440 alpha, the wz fires roughly every 8 seconds with 420 alpha, it therefore has worse dpm, it only has better dpm if you mean the fv is using ap, in which case it has like 265 pen (with CS again). Yeah ok fair enough, I don’t think many people would use rammer on the fv due to no prammo + that extra HESH pen, however unlike a lot of people I use CS on my meds not rammer (unpopular opinion lol) so sure if you run rammer on the wz then it closes the gap, but I personally wouldn’t (also everyone seems to be going on about the extra pen being useless right now and the dpm everything, so I’m not sure if some might even run rammer on the FV)

Although honestly they might have made the turret slightly trickier to pen, without autopen zones, a 250 mm cap on all of the turret but the under-gun and cupola weak spots might have been fair

Well that’s also a great question, people what do you run on your Fv ? Personally I considered that it was worth it because of the extra 5% increase for hesh, which makes you able at 231 to hit several plates you couldn’t before, for example type 68,s frontal lower plate, and penning easier the turret of the very played 183.

I tried it a lot with gr but it makes the tank just a least interesting vickers to me, where you think you can pen that and it appears as you can but because hesh is tricky you’ll bounce quite often, and end up losing a lot of damage compared to just spamming ap.

I kinda hoped they would also buff the pen by 10 or 12 mm in 9.1, so as to make it more worth it in more situations to take the risks, especially since they nerfed accuracy which hits harder on that tank than on others, when you rely a lot on accuracy to get the hesh shells in.

Either the turret or the extra pen, they might have given something to make the gameplay of the thing easier to embrace.

[unique scaffold]

What do you mean by “autopen zones”? There’s armour where the 3CB rule comes in?? And yes the turret buff was overhyped, I can pen it fairly easily with Sheri, it could be buffed slightly better to at least reduce the effective dpm of enemy tanks by forcing them to use prammo, and yeah also buffing the HESH pen to the equivalent of the 183 would be a nice buff perhaps, don’t forget it’s got a pretty strong upper plate though. Btw HE and HEAT get +10% penetration and AP/APCR get +5%, makes HEAT a good prammo to have sometimes due to that alone, as apcr is basically superior as an actual ammo type (the penetration loss over distance isn’t that important imo, and the lessening of the degree at which you can pen a sidescraping a tank etc. isn’t as good as it sounds as often you’ll hit the tracks or spaced armour anyway)

[orchid grove]

If we’re talking about buffing the FV, I think I would start with the gun handling.

The turret I think is fine. While it can still be easily penned with HEAT, it does mean that 4202 is obnoxiously difficult to pen with standard ammo from the front in a brawl, which helps accentuate its DPM advantage if it’s using HESH.

Personally, I view the 4202 as sort of a HESH-based Leopard. You use the tank’s mobility to exploit a breakthrough, and HESH down isolated opponents.

The iffy gun handling though really does hold the tank back though, since failing like 1 in 6 HESH shells leaves you worse off than firing full AP.

[unique scaffold]

Well, I find the turret a very easy pen, however I think I’ve mostly come up against it peeking hull down, I guess in a brawl it’s a pretty confusing tank to face armour wise, and yes I’ve seen a lot of people complain about the accuracy, good point about it affecting the HESH dpm. I’m too lazy myself but has anyone done the calcs on the Leo 1 dpm vs the fv 4202 using HESH? Since the alpha/dpm buff the Leo 1 may be better purely in the flank and farm role, especially with its better accuracy, obviously they’re quite different tanks though, that’s only one area of comparison

[fathom glacier]

Day 4 of asking to nerf type 71 armour

[unique scaffold]

Do y’all realise that WG pays no attention to 50 different people asking for 50 different things at 50 different days of asking? You’re better off formulating exactly what you want changed, writing a concise and clear message on it, and hopefully if enough people agree something will happen. That’s extremely doubtful though, this channel is just discussions, I doubt WG reads it or are going to change anything according to what’s said

[unique scaffold]

It’s not. I pen it easily on the front with anything. You have to aim but… it’s hard to explain: I would say that it is an armor pattern that, once you exactly know how it works, is very easy to pen reliably with anything.

But I absolutely agree with you about the gun handling. It is a kind of hesh Leo, absolutely, just as much as progetto should be an auto reloading Leo. But both have the same issue : the accuracy is way worse. Although it is less of a struggle in the case of Fv, the tank still needs to get a slight conveniency buff /rework imo.

Wargaming is showing us a gameplay but the stats don’t really allow for it to be played that way, which is kind of frustrating. Unicums and fighting stupid random meds will get Fv nice damage, but remember how bad you are when facing heavies, and how consistently and easily the turret gets penned.

Either make the hesh a free shell type and replace the he with 280 heat (imo makes sense and should have been done since a long time, also makes the games in the tank quite credit-heavy).

Either make the turret armour as hard to hit as an stb, 3 decently sized weak spots without autopen plates and a lot of red on most of the turret (for low pen guns) making the use of apcr more needed, especially to tanks without accuracy. Lower max speed to 55 (53-55) to balance that, so that it is not too fast and armored at the same time.

Either revert the accuracy change, will be decent but not really a solution imo.

Either, last but not least and my personal fave, make the heat more reasonably usable with a 225 raw pen.

[unique scaffold]

Nah but you’re right bat the turret and yes, we’re on something here, despite the reworked the tank has went through those last updates making it a little nicer than it was during a very long time, The thing still feels weird in the meta. The problem is that It is too unique to really feel how it doesn’t fill its role and how it kind of doesn’t perform well enough in its spot, i had to test it a lot at high ratings and random battles to see the problem with it.

In fact, it has a very long list of problems and drawbacks, matched by few other meds. It gives out a lot for something that is not worth that much.

And on playing enjoyabiliy, once again, it seems great on paper but is worse in practice.
The most logical change seems to be better turret armor, considering the hulldown and how easy it gets penned tho. Hoping wg sees that problem.

[unique scaffold]

Well, I can't comment by experience as I don't own the tank, however I would say looking at the tanks and how it should work it shouldn't have much more armour, it's kind of a weird armour profile but it shouldn't be too reliable, I think leaving the armour buff but giving it the old accuracy would work, otherwise giving it just enough turret armour to bounce non prammo would be good (maybe one small weakspot around 220 mm, and the rest of the turret around 255, that way leo 1s etc. with CS can pen using AP, but add some 340 mm+ sections to make it a really troll turret, I'm just making it up at this point)

[unique scaffold]

Yep so you’re pretty much merging my suggestions 2 and 3 which I doubt they’d ever do sadly.
Any positive change is welcome.
Wag’s turn now.

[unique scaffold]

Fix The Phase1 Chance!!

[nimble zodiac]

It’s supposed to be tiny

[unique scaffold]

At Least Make It 6 Or 7. Just A TEENY Higher

[nimble zodiac]

Nope, the whole point is to farm people who get the pass just to gamble for AEPI

[unique scaffold]

POLL:
Which one is better, chieftain mk6 (1) or super conqueror (2) ?
Answer with the emojis
1️⃣2️⃣

[winged barn]

Do you want an actual heavy (skonk) or a fat medium (mk6)

[unique scaffold]

Mk6 is a heavy; please people try Amx 50b, concept 1b, t95E6, and obj 260 before calling this a heavium. I think it is a decently fast heavy but 16 hp/ton ain’t enough for heavium classification

[nimble zodiac]

It has DPM, and that makes it better to hunt mediums, and heaviums kinda do that

The armor is mediocre, to say the least

[scenic zodiac]

Dpm AND armor, the only ones with significant armor he listed is concept and e6, and I feel those 2 don’t really match the chief in dpm, especially with HESH

[unique scaffold]

Concept is completely broken imo, the armor is amongst the best with pretty much everything other heaviums have. It’s also much faster than chieftain or t110e5 fro example, which to me are heavies. You can’t efficiently hunt meds in mk6 and t110e5, you can do so in the t95e6 and obj 260, concept 1B and 50b.

Also, t110e5 needs a nice dpm buff.

[nimble zodiac]

E6 significant armor? Stop.

[unique scaffold]

Well tbh it’s decently tricky to pen, under 250 pen but from 260 experienced player will hatch you… imo the tank is kinda fair but the backing speed is really frustrating cuz you already pay for the speed in the armor and accuracy departments but unlike concept 1b and the mediums you emulate you have a gerbage backing speed. An additional 3 to 5 kmh in reverse maximum speed k the tank imo.

But if I had to rank all of the fast heavies/ heaviums on armor I would go:
First: Concept 1B(completely unjustified, imo one of the 3 most powerful tanks in the game)
HUGE GAP
Second: WZ-113
Third: Chieftain MK6
Fourth: WZ-111 5A
Fifth: t95E6
Sixth : obj 260
Seventh: AMX 50B

T110E5’s armor is really crap tho, almost as easy to hit as chieftain’s which to me is a good reason enough to give it the same dpm considering it has roughly the same speed and accuracy (actually it’s still much more sluggish especially on traverse and turning rate). Then it will be fair and interesting again. I think giving it 2944 like chieftain or 2900 is the only way of making it decent and playable without giving it an armor buff or reversing the recent nerf. Not under 2800

And yes nowadays a wz 113 since the buff is way harder to pen than a t110e5 since the third nerf. Yes that’s sad. Yes it shouldn’t be that way.

[coarse badger]

113 too slow to be considered fast heavy?

[nimble zodiac]

I am not accepting E5 to be in the list at all 💀

[unique scaffold]

I agree. Just tried it.it’s a slow turning garbage can. I hope they ever understand how huge of a buff it needs. I take it out of the list.

[willow hawk]

Concept 1B top of the list? The 15mm nerf on its upper plate now makes it so much easier to take out, even if hull down, slightly over extending a bit. Low alpha, mediocre DPM….it should not be number one. Type 71 maybe. Not Concept 1B. It can’t brawl. It’s a lead magnet.

[winter heron]

The Type 71 easily fall on that list, and very high up. It qualifies based on the speed/maneuverability, and ranks high due to the silly armour which is especially effective against lower caliber guns (mt/lt guns). Also worth noting the decent gun handling, albeit mediocre dpm and poor gd. (This is assuming you run the suspension equipment not the gd equipment)

[indigo tinsel]

bruh the FV4202 has HESH, which gives you best in class DPM when you use it and pen all ur shots. FV is godtier against lots of tanks.

Try running supercharger and refined gun (instead of gun laying drive and vstabs). Having that better accuracy and much better shell velocity (for OP HESH shots) is a good trade for slightly longer aim time. At the very least you should try using supercharger instead of gun laying drive.

I also highly reccomend using supercharger on WZ 121 because its aim time is already insane and GLD hardly changes it. Makes the shell velocity very nice.

[twin egret]

So kinda like the FV4202 turret on console? Is that what you're saying? My bad if i'm wrong

[indigo tinsel]

its kind of annoying how little of a difference there is between vstabs and refined gun

[fossil marten]

Is there any tank in the game that is worse than the Mitsu 108?
I don’t think it can actually be balanced. It ideally needs ripping out of the tech tree and replacing. A cardboard box with a straw would be a better tank. It can’t compete against anything! The armour is trash, the gun awful, penetration non existent, manoeuvrability of a building. It has no redeeming features whatsoever.
NB cue certain persons coming along and singing it’s praises as the most OP tank in the game, in fact so OP is it that it can compete at tier 10 and take out Maus’s with a single exhaust pipe emission!

[remote oriole]

When I was playing my Mitsu 108 recently, I had this interesting revelation while taking out a Maus with a single exhaust pipe emission: it is really op. Like so op, that this tier five tank can easily compete at tier ten

[lean gate]

Day 47 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[outer glen]

Gotta wait till day 69

[fathom glacier]

Day 5 of asking to nerf type 71 armour

[golden lava]

what did that thing do to you that it has to get 7 seconds of reload time

[unique scaffold]

Yeap

[unique scaffold]

It’s just op. Too hard to pen frontally with many guns, even without wiggling which is insane, now add in thee wiggling and it’s an impossible task

[nimble zodiac]

I see two approaches to balancing the Type 71:

1. Make the lower plate less angled, then remove the super equipment, and buff the speed slightly and GD to 8 degrees
2. Keep the lower plate the same, but remove the super equipment, and nerf the frontal side armor

[unique scaffold]

Lol no, i bully everyone in this, the armor is extremely convenient and 9.1 was an immense and unjustified buff to me, it was so much worse before. That plate was illegal and also premium shells penned. It’s almost the same alpha. Mediocre dpm is t110e5. Also that ranking was about the armor amongst heaviums, not other aspects. Really, read this list again; the problem is mostly the speed and armor on the concept 1b, not the gun. Also there is a lot of red on the hull, especially the sides, and the same goes for the profile which is weird and low. It is not very far before t71 in matter of protection if you consider you are using the depression. No real cupola, no big turret, it really combines huge advantages together, it’s like an obj140 mixed with a kranvagn.

@winter heron Type 71 is too fast but doesn’t have the required 42 km/ h to be on the list; also it’s not a proper heavium to me it’s really an heavy. I agree that based on this it was very daring to put the t110e5 in the list but cmon the t110 has the max speed. Although they both feel too sluggish compared to others in there. Yes if I had included it it would of course be first, being to me the op-est tank on the armor aspect since the launch of this game. Even old t110 wasn’t this hard to pen for me and that’s something to say.
@indigo tinsel I already use refined gun as dispersion is stupidly bad since 9.1, but I’ll give an attempt to supercharger, although that seems to be a HUGE trade as you really don’t have a good aiming time either. And you told it, it’s when you pen all your shots; which rarely happens lets be honest (I play on mobile), maybe on pc can you aim that better but on the mobile scene which is what the game is intended to be, well, it’s hard, with auto-aim, to hit that small spot where 231 is enough. To me it obviously needs a +10 pen buff. Also the shells are stupidly expensive for no reason they should be twice cheaper or free considering it’s not proper apcr.

[indigo tinsel]

Not sure what’s wrong with 231 pen with HESH and cali on 4202. That’s not even that much less than obj 140 with standard rounds. You’re not supposed to be able to pen heavies frontally with hesh, you just gotta flank. Imo it should just get an aim time buff by 0.3 seconds and accuracy buff by like 0.03 at least.

@neat crescent this isn’t armored warfare

[nimble zodiac]

The bigger problem with HESH is that it doesn’t normalize like AP

[neat crescent]

"not supposed to be able to pen heavies with hesh frontally" armored warfare HESH would love to talk to you

[willow hawk]

Yeah…no. 😂 Concept 1B used to be able to brawl with that +15mm plate. Now it can’t. It is extremely hill-hiding and hull down dependent. If you’re caught on flat ground, you’re as good as dead. Especially in ratings.
The so called new “buff” makes the tank more effective hull down if only the turret is showing, no hull exposed. But if ur outflanked and out gunned, your nerfed turret traverse and the increased DPM doesn’t help as much.

[unique scaffold]

Or, keep super equipment, but nerf by 5-10mm the frontal plate and maybe up to 15 for the lower plate, along with making the cupola also easier to hit. That way, it is still strong on the wiggling, strong on the sides, but will stop being a super trollish cupola tank, and will actually be pennable by apcr on the front.

Another way is, nerf it harder than that, with maybe making the lower plate autopen and also slightly nerfing the sides, BUT buff the gun to make it funnier to play , like better dpm and dispersion for example

@indigo tinsel you know very well that this doesn’t work either on meds. Hesh doesn’t normalize. I never intended it had to pen frontally heavies except the Amx’s and the heavies weakspots.

But another fix to that might be 5mm and accuracy.

Also, you seem to be running cali too which is cool

@willow hawk
Well as it should but I maintain the speed/armor combo is unmatched tho. Also you keep ignoring how good that profile is. You see, you are so used to it being op that you find abnormal that it’s just a very fast tank being extremely able to bounce shells once the hull is hidden, but lets put it another way, imagine the kranvagn was going at 40 kph, and that it was able to move as fast as concept, and now I think you can picture how strong it is. It is like a circular shot better kranvagn which extreme speed, better armor too (cuz profile and still red parts on hull), dpm, etc. What does the kran have over it ? A horribly bad autoreloader ?

When you put it that way you see how it was so op that we normalised the openness

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/502018644193181706/1017089560188043284/IMG_6809.TRIM.MOV Kran turret is meh 😉

[nimble zodiac]

The thickness of the lower plate isn’t the problem, it’s the angle. It can be put to an auto-ricochet angle, denying any AP or APCR shell from penetrating.

That is, until you nerf it down to 60mm or less, where the 183 will be able to 3CR it.

[willow hawk]

Honestly I’d rather have that 15mm. Just a personal preference. I run a “stand alone” style. I don’t trust my teammates. The whole point of me running heavy is to hold the line. Often against 3-4 tanks. (Boyo I think everyone’s attacking u with these comments XD)

[unique scaffold]

https://tenor.com/view/oj-simpson-gif-9270512

[unique scaffold]

They’ll never go through changing a players angel sadly; but even reducing it by 20 would change things at range or low ground. It’s true that I think the key is rather the cupola on the turret; make it less trollish is maybe a way ?

Why is type 71 so hard to balance ?

@willow hawk please go check how useless the kranvagn is compared to concept, it is insane, I keep comparing both and playing both and I start to think I have never seen two versions of a pretty similar gameplay tank be so different in power. Concept has a more effective hull and turret; the speed is like 50% better it’s insane; the dpm is 740 higher.

The clipping ability won’t make that okay

[uneven narwhal]

You underestimate the power of an autoreloader
Especially one capable of dealing 1200 in 6s

[willow hawk]

Told you. You play it the way u want. Heavy, medium, or light. I could care less. I play heavies to brawl. I can’t do that in the C1B as effectively as the Kran and Type 71. Embellish on how good the C1B is, idc. Everyone knows how good it is, it’s just not as good as before, and definitely not why I paid for it out of my own pocket. I paid for it to brawl and pull 1v3s and 1v4s. You can say I am dissatisfied with the C1B’s current state.

[unique scaffold]

No amount of money is supposed to make tier X’s unbalanced. Especially when it’s so easy to rack up gold.

If it was an auto loader with good dpm maybe; maybe but it’s actually so much trash of an autoreloader you sue it as a very slow reloading autoreloader and that’s just horrible

I perform better with it since the update

[scarlet fjord]

Sorry but I disagree the turret is not better in my opinion and the inferior DPM is understandable due to the fact that the kran is a flexible auto loader
In WG terms auto reloader
I believe that the concept is a more suitable playstyle to you personally
The kran can burst a specified amount of damage and it can change its mind and start reloading at any point while at the same time having the ability to burst damage out quickly to cripple a vehicle
I would say I would drive a concept if it's a fast game or a steamroll over a kran otherwise the kran would be my choice
Generally speaking

[willow hawk]

Easy to rack up gold? My man, where do you live? $50 USD is not little. And I worked for my money.

Unless you’re saying it’s easy to rack up gold because you are using your parents’ credit card. You essentially got gold for free.

[unique scaffold]

Ads on mobile, clan gold, and lots gold from free give-aways around Christmas etc. (Also good to know you worked for your money 😉)

[willow hawk]

Ok, let’s grant you full ideal conditions. Say you can log in everyday, no power outages, no busy life, you don’t forget. There are 365 days in a year, and you earn 50 gold a day. That will get you 18250 gold in a YEAR. Grant you are in an active clan and given that you and your clan mates can earn weekly rewards every week, and gold handout is 100 every other week. That’s an additional 2600 gold. So after one year you earned 20850 gold. That might just get you a tier X collector or premium. And this, is only after ONE year. So no, gold is not easy to rack up. And special events, how much can you earn from that? Let’s grant you 5000 gold. What about players who play only on PC. That 18250 gold would not be available to them.

[unique scaffold]

Yep, doesn't work for pc players, this is a mobile game, and getting 20k+ in a year isn't bad, you can get a good tank or two from the Christmas auction etc., or you can even just gamble on crates and you'll probably get something eventually lol, anyway I can see for someone used to buying gold it sounds slow. There used to be no gold available for free to play players, now you can buy numerous tier eights in a year

[uneven narwhal]

It ranges from 100-400 every week, so that's around 200, if I'm taking a low estimate
That alone is 10k a year, events will grant 5k a year, ads are 18k
30k+ gold a year earned very easily
I've yet to take into account the BattlePass and free crates rewards

Even if you play on PC, you almost certainly have a phone that you can install Blitz on, and press the play button on the ads 5 times, while you do something else, 50gold/day for almost nothing
Gold is cheaper than ever before

Lets say you can't make every event and BP which is likely going to be the case, given people have lives and can't always dedicate their time to a game
Even so, that's easily upwards of 25k gold a year

[stuck acorn]

Kinda offtopic, but still.

It is not mobile game. Even WG at some point advertised it as a multiplatform game.

People tend to forget that even if blitz was designed to be a mobile game, in a place where it is now it's not even close to being one. You can play it at 3 different platforms, you can download it through official stores on 3 different platforms and all 3 different platforms have controlls adjusted to make the game more comfortable to play.

Blitz is not mobile game anymore, people need to understand that. I'm getting sick of trash players whinning about PC players able to play mobile game, even if WG gone far enough to implement same controll mode specifically for them.

@unique scaffold i'm not talking about gold here lmao. It's obvious that you can't have ads at PC. It's just how it works. I'm just saying that blitz isn't mobile game anymore. Current WG's marketing strategy claims that it is one, as this game clearly doesn't stand out in any way on PC games market, but marketing strategy won't make it less multiplatform.

And tbh if you claim that PC has better controlls just git gud lmao. It may be easier to aim at PC by default, but on mobile you have an aiming assistance that makes huge difference. Both platforms are fairly equal in terms of controlls

@unique scaffold you are missing point again. It is not mobile game, neither it is PC game, It is multiplatform game. It;s obvious trhat multiplatform games must be adjusted with the weakest platform in mind so that it's still playable there. And actually 10v10 wouldn't be a problem even on mobile. WG tested bigger battles many times already. I wouldn't be suprised if they added some mode with bigger amount of players in upcoming 1-2 years

[unique scaffold]

No, it is 100% a mobile game, just because it can be played on other devices doesn't change that, it was designed and optimised for mobile, heck it's a mobile version of wot pc even if a different game. I don't have an issue facing pc players, but basically if they want gold play on mobile, too bad if they choose pc they can get better controls and less gold. And yes I understand it's cross platform, but wot pc would still be a pc game even if it was able to be played on mobile. (Idk wot pc may be available for controllers anyway). Why do you think 10v10 will never be tried? Too much for mobile, if it was an actual pc game instead of one that's able to be used on pc there probably wouldn't be an issue. Just saw your edit, well I don't know about the controls, I didn't think it made much difference but pc players told me they're better, I'm the last to complain, I've never used same control mode.
True it's multi platform, still I would say its a mobile game, even if just going by the number of players on mobile vs pc, also I'm not sure what your point is if it's not about gold/ads, that's what the conversation was about.
Not sure about bigger battles, the objection I've always heard is that it'll be too much on mobile, could be wrong though, be interesting to see.
What do you mean by it doesn't stand out among pc games? Surely that's a reason to call it a mobile game, and also if that was the case people would play wot pc on pc, but clearly wotb has something going for it even among equivalent pc games

[uneven narwhal]

Couldn't agree more, people are living in 2014 if they think Blitz is still a mobile game
It was released as one, it no longer is

[stuck acorn]

That's why i said it's offtopic. It's not about gold ads, but kind of about mindset. Why do you think that same controll mode exists? Why PC players are still not allowed to take part in Proffesional/season tournaments? Answer is simple. People still consider blitz as a mobile game even if it's not one anymore. And no matter what WG does about that, people will still complain. They can't understand that this game is deigned to be playable on multiple platforms and that playing on PC doesn't automatically give you huge advantage.

When i said that it doesn't stand out among other PC games i meant that things it has different than other PC games doesn't compensate for it's trash graphics and extremely simplified gameplay when compared to other PC games. This game just wouldn't gain much attention when advertised as a multiplatform game.

On the other hand when compared to other mobile games it seams extremely complex with many different mechanics, accessible skill floor and high skill ceiling making it entertaining. It's obviously easier to make this game look good by calling it mobile game. That's why it's still advertised as one, even if it's not true

Most players that play blitz on PC are just players that either switched from WoT PC after they stopped enjoying it or people that played it previously on mobile, but switched to PC, because it's just more comfortable for them. There aren't that many new players that started playing this game at PC

[unique scaffold]

Ah right, thought you meant the whole conversation was off topic.
Well, look I agree it's not exclusively mobile and sure perhaps it's being advertised wrong, however I still think it's overall a mobile game, the fact it has bad graphics etc. testify to that, once it started off as a mobile game it's always gonna be mostly a mobile game.
On the whole I agree with you, there shouldn't be such a big gap between pc and mobile, I've always played vs pc and i doubt it makes any real difference

[twin egret]

You're upset that a premium you got was nerfed? I think the word is reworked, not nerfed, the Concept 1B was never nerfed, only reworked
$50 can be little depending on the context. Is it USD? CAD? AUD? NZD? is it compared to 100000? 1.0 ∙ 10⁸?

[willow hawk]

If you’re not too quick to bite? You would’ve noticed that I said USD, and here’s another catch, I never said nerf 😉. 🤡

[twin egret]

I never fully claimed that you said "nerfed" either, I simply interpreted your complaint as seeing it as a nerf
If you got the memo, I was giving examples to the context of how can $50 be considered little

😉 🤡
Besides, Wargaming has a full right to nerf a premium if need be, though the Concept wasn't nerfed, just merely reworked

[willow hawk]

Interpret it the way you want. It doesn’t change what I said. I said I paid for the C1B to brawl. I paid for the full characteristics of the C1B at the time. Which included the additional 15mm upper plate. I said I was dissatisfied with the reduction of the upper plate by 15mm and that the reload time and gun changes were not as relevant to me. There was no objective to define whether the changes were a “nerf” or a “rework.” And I said I worked hard for my money, and based on what was conveyed, “$50 USD” means a lot to me, so at the time of my C1B purchase, I think it was worth it.

How I see it, you’re doing this to instigate a fight, which I am of no appetite for.

[nimble zodiac]

If it makes you feel better I spent more 😊
Heck, about $190 in gold for the mle 54 through 10 globes

[twin egret]

I spent 25$ on the S. Conq, and $30 for the Churchill 6, that's as far as I can remember, but I definitely spent more than 100 for gold to buy premiums.

Also, what you described, isn't that just a rework still...? Hell, the Concept 1B is still already pretty annoying tank to deal with even before the rework, and it still is pretty good. Sure it can't like brawl anymore and limited to being hull down, and it is kinda more in line of I don't know, a do it all? type of tank? It's still really good for what it is. It can easily move to one location to another. It can be with the Mediums, or fight heavies along the ridge line. I'm actually glad it had 15mm taken off, because why does a really mobile heavy with amazing DPM, credit ecoefficiency, and maneuverability need face hugging capabilities? Same can be said with the S. Conqueror. The fast turret traverse made the the tank be able to just shoot back at circling meds. Now that it has a slower turret traverse, it has a harder time against lights or fast mediums, though it can still at least fight them. The bad accuracy and the 21mm weird roof plate in front prevent it from really being broken. Is as, both tanks needed something taken away from them so other classes have a better time dealing with the already prevalent heavy meta.

@quick lichen The first mistake for everyone even myself was spending money on this dumb game 💀
that premiums sometimes need nerfs in some areas and improvements in others to balance them better

[quick lichen]

Can we get a TL:DR?

[winged barn]

When I bought my kv5, I paid for a bad tank with trash pen and questionable armor.

Weegee then buffed it. That's not what I paid for.

Wargaming should definitely refund me because they changed what I paid for.

If wargaming is going to refuse to nerf premium tanks, they should also refuse to buff them.

[nimble zodiac]

Sure thing

Someone is displeased that Concept 1B got its playstyle reworked after they bought it for the playstyle it had

[willow hawk]

Pretty much; that’s all I was saying. And I congratulate you all for your…very good financial security…to spend money luxuriously on a mobile game.
@winged barn if you ask for a refund, that’s up to you. But to me, even amidst your sarcasm, I find your decision in doing so…illogical.

[twin egret]

Man I really spent $30 for a tier 6 huh, crazy, wild even, nefarious & dastardly >:)
Though it was pretty OP, then it got buffed because Wargaming, but it was really unecessary
It changed the entire playstyle of my tank, making it much more front line and aggressive because it couldn't be damaged through the tracks anymore
This really didn't like this change because it made me be able to be more careless and less backed

[winged barn]

What is stopping weegee from accidentally buffing a reload time of 10 to a reload time of 1 and them implementing it. see kenny otsu for similar occurrence and them refusing to change it again see kenny

But oh no, we can't go back now because it was a premium.

Weegee apparently cannot fix mistakes, so they shouldn't even be allowed to do things that might be irreversible

The tog 2 used to be a meme tank. Now it's just a boring tier 6 heavy.

I do wish that weegee would actually balance their game, but they dont, so I can only complain about how they are failing at balancing the game.

Can't fail expectations when I have set them to the bare minimum.

[willow hawk]

I really don’t see your point of jeering at me. Unless, you really think my dissatisfaction of the C1B’s rework that worthy of a threat to its current state? Afraid WG may change it again, and perhaps, “fail” in your expectations?

[winged barn]

Weegee is currently doing balancing purely by rng (see ltwt nerf in a tier of complete heavy dominance)

You complaining about them changing what you bought when you should have bought it understanding that it is subject to change is something imma laugh at though.

[willow hawk]

Now isn’t that the whole purpose of this channel? Express our grievances of balance changes? I see you also partake in it, so I don’t know if I should also be laughing at you also, for taking someone else’s dissatisfaction so heavily…

[winged barn]

I am here to make fun of stupid buffs and nerfs (or lack of) that weegee does.
You are most recently here to cry about a tank [let me stress this] that you paid for getting changed.

If you had left out the "bUt I pAyED fUr DiS" portion I wouldn't have even really noticed it.

[distant river]

When you buy tanks from the store you buy a tank which can be changed to fit with the game. You don't pay for the characteristics because they are not permanent. You may not view it in this way, but this is the way that WG, the law and most players view it and so the way you will have to learn to accept. Collectors are even sold with a little tag of "this vehicle's characteristics may be changed" or something similar at the bottom to emphasise this.

Complaining about unbalanced tanks should be independent of whether they are a prem or not.

[willow hawk]

Let’s be honest, you’re here to feed your ego.

[winged barn]

That all this chat is for.
Nothing in this chat will influence the type of shrooms that the people in charge of balancing are on, unless it sparks some kind of server wide rage that will actually impact profits.

[willow hawk]

Point taken, but why does it have to draw out all the Balance Discussion Saints when I said I was dissatisfied with the latest C1B reworks? Have I spoken with blasphemy? I mentioned that I paid for the C1B with my wages simply because someone said it was easy to rack up gold???

[winged barn]

I'm pretty sure I said why 2 messages ago

[dry rivet]

I feel that, and even more when you’re the only one still alive on your team.

[willow hawk]

Yessss, thank you finally someone sees what I’m trying to get across!

[dry rivet]

But u shouldn’t have brought this up. There are a lot of alpha personalities who find little details to start conflict.

[tulip escarp]

Some weeks clan rewards mission weeks give up to 300 gold, also you could get bluestacks on a pc… if you really cant be bothered to get in on your phone and you missed video ad containers as they frequently give parts for 100 gold or gold boosters

[willow hawk]

Now, THAT, I didn’t know. Thanks!

[twin egret]

Or just be lucky and roll a 500 gold card from the weekly crate

[carmine chasm]

armor 300 for lower plate other is 350++ side is 120 back is 80 mm

[marble vigil]

pls buff the su-122-44 the hit points so low for tier 7 and the front armor is like 4 layers of paper ngl

[dry rivet]

Try popping over hills and reverse, it will make your armor thicker when you back up

[next quail]

Su 122 is balanced you get that crazy dpm with decent accuracy and a soviet 122mm. If you camp armor is not a problem if you dont you have to trade in the worst case

[slender latch]

Man people actually spent more than 100$ on a pixel game and complain yet here I'm contented as a f2p lol

[spice raptor]

Got a free 4500 gold on 2020 chirstmas and buy the SU-122-44. That is my Smartest choice in the game btw

[unique scaffold]

That’s why they complain lol

[unique scaffold]

Nerf Smasher Seriously.

[scenic zodiac]

Then WG won’t sell a lot of smasher crates.
If smasher and annihilator are op, people will be willing to gamble on them, where as if they were bad they won’t buy the crates.

Smasher and anni only come in crates, not direct purchase (not that I know of any cases otherwise).

[silver olive]

F2P is the way forward

[unique scaffold]

@scenic zodiac I know instead of making a tank broken they can make some fun tanks like Tvp you will have to use your brain, and it's alot of fun all I'm saying that is
If you use your brain you will be rewarded
If you don't you will be punished

[unique scaffold]

You consider things in a way that was the good way to consider things in 2015. At first, premium tanks were extremely expensive. I remember I have paid 250 euros for the t 22 and 66 euros for the e-25, for example. The choice of wg is now to make those tanks available basically for free on the yearly. Considering this, I dont think you can consider premiums as something that wg shouldn’t touch anymore. I believe premiums should be absolutely balanced. Some believe like you that they should be slightly stronger. Some believe that they should be weaker.
I still think that for tier X premiums should all be balanced. 9.1 shows us we could get a yearly big rebalancing and could correct those tanks quite often.

Also, I go back on the Concept 1B. My proposition is that your opinion is hardly pertinent considering that you seem to expect premium tanks to be stronger than tech tree tanks; so I don’t see how you could admit it is op if indeed it’s « fair » state for you is already one where it is overpowered.

[unique scaffold]

Why do you think 10v10 will never be tried? Too much for mobile

TCM devs are confused right now over this statement, lol.

[willow hawk]

Gee! Why suddenly so helpful? 🙄

[unique scaffold]

Ah, well I believe that graphics on mobile are gonna be crp for that, I could be wrong though (I think TC is a bit of bluff basically, not sure though)

[scenic zodiac]

Difference is tvp is f2p, where as if WG is short of cash, they drop smasher or anni crates, it’s basically their main money maker.

Basically accept it is op and that it will never be nerfed in foreseeable future.

[unique scaffold]

Well there are gameplay videos out already, and they do not plan on PC port yet iirc. I have seen screenshot and gameplay videos, and they look quite fancy indeed. I think it might fry older phones though, so you better be careful with that. It has a lot of interesting vehicles to me though and is 15v15 so I am looking forward to global release, hopefully A53 with 8GB RAM and Exynos is good enough.

Also funny how your name is Carius but profile picture is Tiger II.

[distant river]

Because the concept is an unbalanced tank. It was even more of an unbalanced tank before. We want the game to be more balanced to help the game get better, and you want to have a detrimental impact on the game. I have no idea why people disagreeing with you surprises you.

[unique scaffold]

Well, we’ll see I guess, and yeah the name and picture are both pretty random lol

[willow hawk]

Well no kidding, no one is disagreeing that it’s broken. It just seems bizarre for it to have an armor nerf. I would’ve settled for less firepower and more protection, it’s a frontline holder. People being obsessed over what I said or didn’t say about paid transaction vs vehicle characteristic alteration is what surprises me.

I’m not happy because as soon as I paid for a tank and some ways to play it changed. Ok. End of story. I wasn’t politically correct.

[distant river]

It's a hulldown tank that for some reason was given a stupid hull. It doesn't need the hull to fulfil its role.

WG changing prems and collectors is a brilliant thing for the game and you are complaining about it. Of course people are going to laugh at what you are saying.

[willow hawk]

Fine. Good for the majority who thinks that way. Just because I expected either no change or change in a specific direction is worthy of laughter.

[lean gate]

Day 48 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[fathom glacier]

Day 6 of asking wg to nerf type 71 armour

[vast bane]

Bruh type 71 is not that good compared to concept B + concept B has better gun and mobility

[uneven narwhal]

How does that, in any way, make the 71 not broken

[prisma jetty]

Type 71 has a much better armor profile, and much better mobility if you actually bother to buy the sus equipment

[scenic zodiac]

I would not care if they nerf the sides and rear, so something like vickers can pen it with HESH, but it’s frontal armour and mobility are the only things going for it, it has a meh gun, and sluggish turret traverse.

[uneven narwhal]

💀

[unique scaffold]

Hello, good afternoon.
I was wondering if someone from WG could make some improvements to the French FCM36 tank.
I'm not asking for much, I just want to know if you can improve your speed (from 19 to 25), your armor (from 32.6 to 35) and please lower your cooldown (from 12.48 to 10 or 9).

[ember thunder]

um who plays tier 3

[unique scaffold]

Well people who are just playing the game for the first time or people who want their tanks to have a positive win percentage.

[unique scaffold]

Wow, someone who actually took the time to state the changes wanted instead of just shouting “X needs a nerf to everything”, nice job. However I would use the detailed tab instead of brief overview tab when studying module stats

[unique scaffold]

Thanks, now in a while I'll send a couple of images of what I'm asking for, to see if someone from wg can improve the tank a bit.

[unique scaffold]

Yeah. Well I’m sorry to say but this is a discussion channel, I doubt WG reads it at all, and they’re almost certainly not going to change anything based off of an opinion. They have they’re own balancing people who study stats etc. and suggest what should be changed. The only way the playerbase could influence a tank rework is if the majority were spamming the wanted change in all channels. Anyway nice job still, and hopefully someone sees it

[rotund skiff]

It has poor stats in other categories to counterbalance the gun which has the highest AP alpha damage among tier 3 and even 4 vehicles. The Pak40’s gun is influential enough that it warrants being a vulnerable target.

[twin egret]

Yes
Anything put forward by anyone here is really lol

[unique scaffold]

It’s not a frontline holder lol it’s one of the 3 fastest heavies boys stop making it equivalent to kranvagn in protection it literally should not at all be that good considering the protection of t95E6, obj 260, etc.

[unique scaffold]

But it's no use having a tank with a good weapon if you're super slow, have no armor and take a long time to load.
That alone makes you completely useless and there would be no point in having such a tank in the game.

I only ask for small improvements so that the tank is not frustrating and you can participate more in the team.

[rotund skiff]

It only deserves a mobility or accuracy buff, not 1,200 dpm per your request. Regardless, however, it’s at tier 3 so there is no incentive to play it.

[willow hawk]

If you insist.

[unique scaffold]

For some players there is an incentive, a lot of people complain about 5.5 and how it ruined low tiers, but then laugh whenever anyone mentions they care about lower tiers. It’d more enjoyable for a start if people didn’t laugh at it. (I don’t spend any time at all in low tiers myself, I love higher tiers)

[real bison]

bro its a tier 3 tank
no newbie will get that
newbies want tier 10s 💀

@thick hearth it pays for it with no camo and a massive barn which a .50 cal could probably pen

[thick hearth]

Tbh the FV4005 has too much dpm, like 4 shells maybe decrease it maybe to 2

[shrewd tree]

"It's honestly crazy how my Concept 1B, which should specialize in being hulldown, is now being nerfed in a way that makes it worse outside of being hulldown, which wasn't its primary goal anyways, in order to make the game more balanced"

[unique scaffold]

There’s no saying what it’s primary goal was, point is it was capable of a certain playstyle upon release and now isn’t, whether or not you agree with that change is a different matter. (Tbh I’m not sure why this is being brought up a day later? It’s not an important or even relevant discussion yet keeps being revived.)

[scenic zodiac]

Sounds like someone got clipped to me.

Fv is fine, the lack of any armour means you have to play it wisely, not sit in the open and dump your clip, as you will get deleted before you finish unloading it.

[scenic zodiac]

What you on about?

And?

Why you calling WG thieves @unique scaffold

I’m trying to understand what he is talking about @winged barn

Oh you referring to him sorry.

[winged barn]

Yes
Talk to random people that can't help instead of player support

[quick lichen]

I too complain in the wrong places about things and expect results

[pallid nest]

You serious?

[willow hawk]

Apparently my opinion is the perfect opportunity for others to bash on. And others follow suit. It started on why I think the C1B shouldn’t be in the top ranks of someone’s list, then it went to someone saying it was easy to rack up gold, then me saying I paid for something that is subject to change then to how the C1B is broken…idk. Forgive my runon sentences. People see the tallest tree and want to climb it to proclaim, “This tree is conquered.”

[stuck brook]

Whats a C1B????

[nimble zodiac]

Concept 1B

[dry rivet]

When you play hulldown in Concept, you occasionally have to slightly expose your top hull to be able to hit an opponent. Skilled shooters can hit the top hull and deal damage. And if the game was truly balanced, the developers would be out of business, and balance changes every update will be pointless. The game wouldn’t be fun or interesting then.

[shrewd tree]

1. Almost every tank has that same risk. The majority of tanks will have to expose something like a cupola even if they're hulldown, or something of the like
2. Even in that supposed scenario when for a split second you have to show your upper hull, you'd still need a fairly high pen gun
3. "if the game was truly balanced, the game wouldn't be fun" sounds like the opinion of someone who hasn't seen the cesspool of broken prems at T8 followed by T10 meta being TVP and Type 71

I'm not saying that the game's ever going to be perfectly balanced, but you can't tell me with a straight face that the game is enjoyable when the meta consists of 5 tanks vastly outperforming everything else, and balancing them would make the game uninteresting (granted C1B wouldn't even be there, but the nerfs it received made sense)

[unique scaffold]

The meta consists of far more than 5 tanks, and they're not really an issue, for instance I haven't seen a C1B for quite a long time, and I play a lot

[unique scaffold]

You’re right. Absolutely right. Perfect balance is impossible as tanks have to be different, but we can come right next to it. Concept is literally harder to pen than a kranvagn (hulldown of course but actually also on flat ground) by the way, stop telling him he’s wrong, just look that picture below, the thing is insane. And it’s not like it’s automatically being pennable when you turn the turret (which it should) nah it stays red for quite a good angle.

But right now, nerf type 71 heftily
Remove Fv4005 accuracy equipment and maybe the clip reload too, best way to nerf it imo. The problem is it can too easily deal 1640 across the map, with too much accuracy and too fast. Not he clip in itself. I think removing those super consumables, or at least the accuracy, would make that whole tier 9 deleting way harder. You would have to expose yourself slightly more or to miss a shell which would make it more normal as a tank, not some mistake allowing super death star camper tank.

Idk how to balance tvp. Maybe a slightly longer intraclip, like 50% of the buff reverted ?

And lastly there’s no reason to give t57 heavy the fast shell reload. Especially if Amx 50 b doesn’t have it. Btw 50b is bad right now give it back it’s old gun or make this one decent.

Then the meta will be fair

Nerf a little obj 907 accuracy too. Most premiums are fair outside that, vk 90 is kinda fair since E100 was buffed in 9.1 and they’re pretty much equal now

Also several tanks are underpowered right now. Obj 263 is in no way balanced, to me worst X rn with t110e5. Give back mobility, it was fun and fair, or make the accuracy great again.

Amx 30b still boring. Hatch still too easy to pen.

Obj 260 is a joke, worse than T95e6 on every aspect. Like a bad heavium without gun depression lol. I think it should have armor, like be an actually ARMORED heavium. And get slightly slower. That way it is not just a. Russian copy of t95E6. Like on pc.

Not insane armor but something to make you aim the lower part of the lower plate like on is 7 (but there it would be autopen unlike is7) or the little triangle between turret and frontal plates

Obj 140 like a leopard that is worse it every aspect but not he-able. Frankly deserves +1 one 2 ° of gun depression. They wanna make it a light tank, well it needs depression.

Amx 50 b needs old gun back at least.

Progetto is a nightmare… make it auto pennable and make it the Italian leopard. Only way of it being interesting once both minotauro and carro 45t are realeased. It should be very accurate, not garbage like now, and auto pennable. He already goes through enough of it, just make the mantlet weaker, and the angle at which the frontal plate bounces steeper

T110e5 we all know what it needs.
And then everything else is kinda balanced.

[river stream]

id say nerf tvp mobility and gun handling slightly, making yolo runs on 1.2k hp tanks much more risky with that less mobility.

as for 4k5 just remove the consumables yeh.

type71... heavily nerf the lower plate so only at severe angles it can bounce.

T57 fine without the consumable agree

as for 907 accuracy.. i think its fine for the tank. just remove reti cal

for buffs.... better mobility for mk6 would be nice.

[unique scaffold]

Mk6 is nice but I agree the armor is bad and also there is a spot right in the front (lower plate and it’s quite big jeez) where it can be he’d easily. It’s a balanced weakness. The gun is good. The tank is fair to me.

907 armor then. Either way, it overperforms. It has that great armor + great speed + great accuracy. Maybe then nerf the hull armor and add weak spots to the turret ? Idk just feels too good.

I t has the best of the obj 140, t62A and t22. It’s just great.

Other than that I’m happy with 9.1. But yeah some tanks were forgotten or barely changed. T110e5 got a nice change but was screwed on dpm.

PROGETTO didn’t need a nerf but a buff and it got a nerf. I’m sorry but speed is way less useful than accuracy on this thing.

And last;y 263 please test it it’s so painful

@real bison they won’t change it. It’s too easy to have great gaming experience/ games in it for that. I also think that it actually needs a buff but accurate guns screw balance over. You must understand that wg has nerfed the accuracy on every armored thing, and many fast heavies too. Now the value of accuracy is increasing. An accurate gun is worth more in balance than speed or even armor.

[real bison]

slightly better mobility and a more consistent turret is what the CM6 needs

[unique scaffold]

OBJ 907 has meh turret armour, not sure why you think it's so good

[river stream]

I think the only reason why 907 stats are high bc skilled players inflated its stat and the low amount of player who owns the tank.
Its hull isn't really that good unless its using max gd. Turret is meh against ht/td pens, meds might have some difficulty but hatches can be easily sniped. Gun is alright but not too good and the bloom is still big. The only thing thats going for the 907 is its mobility, 7gd, and a low profile with enough armor to work with imo.
Id say the only thing thats overcooked with 907 is its acceleration speed.... tanks just zips around from 0-60/0-25. Other than that I see it a pretty well balanced tank.

I dont own 263 and prog so i dont really know things about them.

[real bison]

263 is beyond a meme tank now, just a bad tank

[fathom glacier]

Day 7 of asking wg to nerf type 71 armour

[prisma jetty]

<@&481447501690568709>

[jade cargo]

Zathan#6879 was banned

[unique scaffold]

Yup. So sad. I mean it was fine and fun why in hell would they change it ? I think a lot of noobs complained about it but lol…

Well guys, about 907, only one aspect needs to be nerfed. So that could be the speed.

But I mean yeah it’s not a problem like t71 for sure

[slender latch]

Isn't E5 balanced right now rather underpowered?

[unique scaffold]

Well I pray you buy and compare type 71 and t110e5.

No seriously, it’s slow, has a sincerely bad armor by now, or like average heavium armor quality, and most of all trash dpm.
Should get good dpm and mobility for that armor, or, get back to à somehow decent armored/accurate heavy position.

[prisma jetty]

The 140 is actually able to bounce more than just troll shots, and it has better effective p/w than the Leo 1 on medium and hard terrain. It’s definitely not just a worse Leo 1

[dry rivet]

I sorry, but if there weren’t “broken” tanks, there wouldn’t be any challenge for me. No challenge, no fun. The presence of “broken” tanks means that if they can have it, I can also have it too. And if I can’t have the same broken tanks, then it goes back to the fun challenge of using “mediocre” or less “broken” tanks to fight those “broken” tanks.

[nimble zodiac]

Challenge: Hit 70%

[twin egret]

"When you play hulldown in Concept, you occasionally have to slightly expose your top hull to be able to hit an opponent. Skill shooters can hit the top hull"
Yes... that's exactly how it should work, not some kind of invincible hull down monster lol, even then, most tanks still can't pen
Are you pulling our legs here?

[shrewd tree]

This is without a doubt some of the most flawed logic I’ve seen. What is this, a single player game? You want to fight broken tanks for your own entertainment at the detriment of the rest of the playerbase? That’s not how game balancing works. You don’t blatantly ignore broken tanks under the assumption that everyone will have a great time losing to them.

Personally, I don’t care if your joy comes from fighting broken tanks. That doesn’t come close to justifying why some tanks should remain completely unbalanced.

[dry rivet]

Lol yes!

[stuck acorn]

i kinda understand him, but i don't agree with him aswell.

When you get good at this game and start to realize how simple and easy it actually is it kinda start to become boring. In that case you usually seek for something that would make that game challangeing and fun again. Then you usually take a look at competitive modes, but sadly ranked are just trash and pro tours are locked behind "only mobile players" wall.

Handicaping yourself by playing bad tanks or tanks in bad configuration is another way. I often do that myself. It doesn't justify existance of broken tanks tho. Decision about handicaping yourself should be only your owwn decision. You shouldn't be handicapped by MM that puts double annihilator toon in enemy without giving you any choice other than just getting eaten alive by them.

That's why i still kinda hate WG for removing old low tier derps from high tier vechicles. As a good player you could still do fairly well in them, while there was nothing funnier than rekting a T10 vechicle with a T5 gun at T9 vechicle lmao

[lean gate]

Day 49 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[turbid ice]

Damn _Apple stopped 😔

[wicked oracle]

I decided to not care

[turbid ice]

I see

[viscid nacelle]

They gotta buff T49, u can even hit a target 50m in front without stopping for like 5 seconds

[winged barn]

Just shoot
Or get closer

The t49 has extremely abusable characteristics. It's not a tank you want weegee to buff without serious thought.

[vapid jacinth]

Bruh it's a T49, it's not meant to have good accuracy in the first place. Sure it's not great but it's a fun tank to play. People don't play it to do good in battle, they play it because of big derp gun.

[unique scaffold]

I agree basically with what you said, it’s a good way to look at balancing without actually justifying it though, and even though I’m a very bad player I still enjoy highly challenging tanks that aren’t meta, unfortunately I never had the chance to play lower tier derps in high tiers. I guess the lowest Pershing gun in a failtoon is a fairly good substitute, I want to see screenshots of you doing that sometime 😁. Only one thing, the Anni has restricted MM anyway so it’s a terrible example, and even the smasher has IMO been powercrept by now, it may be extremely easy to play and therefore boost bad players stats but I think it’s not too OP now.

[graceful perch]

What is the best tank for win crédits ?

[scarlet fjord]

i gotta say this
yesterday i got 53tp and
i already knew it was busted but this is insanity xd
busted doesn't even describe it

[raw geyser]

Decent side armor, fairly bounce upper plate, troll lower plate (against smaller guns), strong turret, excellent gun, very fast, yeah, 53TP is beyond busted

[scarlet fjord]

all that
i honestly cant fathom what wargaming was thinking giving that tank those tier 9 stats
russian style heavy tanks with inferior armor nowadays
have less alpha less pen on standard
have about 3-4 more seconds of aim time
53tp btw has tungsten (nice one WG) 420 alpha isn't enough
its unbelievably mobile for that armor profile
it has 8 degrees of gun depression??? sorry? russians cheer with vodka if they get 6 degrees

pfff trust me AX is nothing compared to this monstrosity

[silk hamlet]

and even then some people still say the ax is op

[unique scaffold]

Side armour is crap, it can't sidescrape and can barely angle, lower plate is very normal anything will go through it in reality, upper plate is fairly weak, most prammo or high pen guns will pen it, but it has a fantastic turret with 8 degrees and incredible speed with a great gun, I think its the best tier eight tech tree tank but I wouldn't say busted

[unique burrow]

In theory it‘s a very strong tank… but in reality it‘s quit bad it‘s kinda a Is-3/8 it‘s only good in hightier in low or midtier or against high caliber guns it‘s useless… only good thing is all in alle the turret and gun

[raw geyser]

Uh did you guys play the thing??

Surely enough high pen guns pen it like butter, Rhm can pen the turret surely enough, but here’s the thing, the gun, amazing thing that exists, turret, strong but not as strong as T32 or IS-3

But for that armor profile? It is very mobile, especially with gear oil

I got 2.2k career average damage on the thing in my alt account. I might’ve been in noob MM, but still, it is a really really strong tank, ,,in theory’’ and reality

[stuck acorn]

53TP's hull is really strong, but you need to use gun depression for it to be effective. Lower plate is also very troll because of that dumb strip at the bottom at autoricochet angle.

53TP is just Wz-112-2 but better in literally every way except for ufp armor

[unique burrow]

I don‘t struggle fighting it… in relation to 60tp it‘s no opponent… also I don‘t use prime… so just learn weekspots

[unique scaffold]

I have no trouble fighting it myself, however I do very nicely in it (for me) and it's clearly a very strong tank

[scarlet fjord]

wait wait wait
People are arguing whether 53TP is BAD NOW???
WG if u have given up on this chat i forgive you
it has broken reverse insane forward speed
broken reverse with great armor makes the armor broken were you not aware of that?

[unique burrow]

As heavy is it bad as supporter it‘s good

[prisma jetty]

As a heavy, it's good. The armor works well both hull down and side scraping, the mobility is rather nice, and the gun has some nice pen and good alpha

[scarlet fjord]

dude it has more armor than most heavy tanks
i genuinely believe that its your fault for not working the armor correctly
it has this very small lower plate and thats the only weakspot you get
generally speaking ofc if you roll out in the open ppl will pen it most of the time you aren't a celestial
but u dont aim for 5 seconds like a Celestial you roll for 500 with ur tungsten and reverse at 22 km/h whilest having the luxury of 8 degrees of gun depression ON that turret
are you people serious?

[silk hamlet]

how is the 53tp "bad" as a heavy its cracked lol

[unique scaffold]

Lol it's more of a heavium playstyle, it's hull armour isn't that reliable, the lower plate is super easy to hit and pen even though it looks small. It's an amazing tank for other reasons, although hull armour is decent considering the speed. I wouldn't say its cracked, just probably the best tier eight tech tree tank, one of them has to be the best though 🤷‍♂️

[lean gate]

Day 50 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[ebon solstice]

Is the t22 strong, or should it be buffed?

[scarlet fjord]

its better than many premiums contesting top tier ones actually
hull armor is excellent
and if ur telling me its easy to pen because the "small lower plate is easy to hit" as if other heavy tanks dont have weak spots on the lower plate isn't an argument sorry
it has THAT armor and yet has THAT mobility and THAT gun THAT aim time etc etc
too many strong points and basically if ur smart no weaknesses to speak of

[sonic schooner]

In what way is a brand new, t8 tank with no upgrade balanced with t9 tanks?
Why do I keep getting these matchups?

[real bison]

why didnt you save free exp then

[sonic schooner]

How is that an answer to the question?
If I wanted to be trolled, I'd read the in match chats

[real bison]

"i play a stock tier 8, essentially a tier 7.5 tank"
"why do i get rekt by tier 9s"

[sonic schooner]

I ask why I'm getting these matchups, not how to survive them. Use ur brain
I can see this server is run by trolls, so I won't bother coming back

[real bison]

youre getting them because mm is random

it only cares about your tank tier and type

[unique scaffold]

I agree it’s better than a lot of premiums, shows that the whole P2W thing is a bit overdone, but I never said the hull armour was bad due to having a weak spot, all I’m saying is it’s a very weak weak spot lol, you were saying it’s a troll lower plate, in my experience it’s far from it, one of the easiest to hit and pen even though it looks a bit hard

[hollow thistle]

I haven't played for a while.

How is Leo1 after the update?
Better?worst?

[desert relic]

The Leo itself didn’t change, but some tanks were introduced, Japanese heavies in mind.
It’s still the same feeling as always, but you’ll have a bit of hard time fighting Type 71s and M-VI-Yoh

[slender latch]

I think it's good as top tier but Chi Se performs better imho

[scarlet fjord]

i would disagree personally
chi se is a stronger tiger 2 in my eyes
but they arent even on the same level imo 53TP is bonkers

[stuck acorn]

53tp for me is the most cracked T8 heavy except for T54E2

[fathom glacier]

Day 8 of asking wg to nerf type 71 armour

[unique scaffold]

It’s better, it got 350 alpha improved to 360 without a reload nerf, so effectively a dpm buff, it now has the highest dpm again for a med (lost to the kpz 50t for a while) and it also received ret cal and gunpowder provisions, they’re just gimicky but not that useful IMO (possibly the gunpowder may be useful as I for instance don’t run supercharger, but shell velocity is already high enough and you’re better off with a protective equipment provision probably). Can’t remember if HEAT and HE alpha got buffed accordingly, I think HE alpha was already decent at 440. Oh and last thing, along with all or nearly all tier ten meds it’s APCR standard ammo type was changed to AP, increasing its effective pen vs angled armour (better shell normalisation).

[terse sail]

First day of asking for a buff in pen for the Wz-112-2

[real bison]

one of the best tier 8 heavies and you want it buffed

[terse sail]

Everything else is fine just the pen

[unique scaffold]

So shouldn’t that mean the pen doesn’t need a buff?

[terse sail]

I just want a pen buff I don’t see the big deal

[nimble zodiac]

The big deal is that you don’t understand that buffing the only real weakness of a tank is bad for its balance

[terse sail]

Also to that one person wtf u mean it’s one of the best tier 8s?

[real bison]

its actually a viable alternative to the 3rd best premium tier 8 heavy (252U)

the hull shape of the 122-2 lets it do some things a 252 cant due to its own hull shape

[terse sail]

Talkin bout this mf, also didn’t know don’t have any other premiums 💀

[nimble zodiac]

They’re also talking about that tank. They just made a typo

[bitter frigate]

Do different servers have different statistics? My account in Asia has a different tank turning speed etc than my na account.

[nimble zodiac]

Do you have differing modules, equipment or provisions?

Screenshots, please. Crew % and crew skills are also possibly to blame.

[bitter frigate]

They are the same

[unreal coyote]

Do we've best premium tank rating? If so, what are those top 10 or top 5 tanks?

[leaden ember]

Guys what is your opinion on the Skoda t45

[scarlet fjord]

literally one of the best tanks in tier 8
20 reverse on this armor profile?

[slender latch]

What tank u using while aiming at the celestial?

[upbeat sphinx]

Nerf ISU 152 DPM

It has too much DPM, even more than the 704. In wot PC the ISU152k( the premium version with the BL 10) has 500 DPM less than the regular ISU.
It should have the same DPM as the su101 so 2.5k max

[terse sail]

Ig I’ll stop talking about the wz bc I’m literally being bombarded by 5 people, what’s about the god dam tiger 2’s armor next?

[full token]

whats wrong with its armor

[terse sail]

To t h i c c

[uneven narwhal]

press 2

[unique scaffold]

Not really, it’s very strong vs standard ammo but that’s balanced out by being extremely weak vs high pen tanks or good prammo, it’s a massive continuous grey blob vs prammo often

[quick lichen]

Rammer or calibrated?

[terse sail]

I use rammer

[quick lichen]

Hmm

You sort of have to. Almost every 400 alpha gun have the same reload

Calibrated shells would help though

[pallid nest]

Are you aiming at it with an MS-1 or what -.-

[potent coral]

Nerf Tiger I Hull Armor Please
I Cant Pen Lower Plate With Black Prince
Nerf Tiger II Armor
And Skoda T45 Armor (WG You Overdo It)

[sleek grove]

"oh no I can't pen a tank that's 1 tier higher than mine with my pew pew gun"

[potent coral]

Wdym, I Cant Pen Tiger II's Cupola Sometime With Emil II
And Lower Plate

[scarlet fjord]

XD
no its 213 APCR
which is russian heavy tank level pen using rammer
even with cali 226 APCR will struggle
in my experience u need T34 level pen in pubs to give me a hard time out in the open in my celestial in terms of standard ammo ofc
300 HEAT gets through if i stand out in the open (which is perfectly normal)
the damn thing for some reason has better mobility than IS-6
42 top speed insane turret traverse speed better hull traverse i think as well insane lower plate
most tanks use HEAT to try and pen my upper plate but i watch their gun if they are aiming at my hull i over angle it (i assume they using HEAT) if they are they cant shoot ur trackwheel cuz its HEAT so its a trick to make ur frontal armor bounce even 300 HEAT
obviously the trick doesn't work on everyone every time

[pallid nest]

Then maybe learn to aim better. Guess what, there are weakspots on tanks and you have prammoto cut through things like butter.. Your skill issues are no basis for nerfing things.

[potent coral]

But Tiger II's Lower Plate Is Stronger More Than E75's Lower Plate Mate

[pallid nest]

Turret front is cheese against goldammo, even the front hull plates against higher pen goldammo or AP. Cupola is not hard to hit and can be penned by pretty much any tank it meets. The moment he turns his turret a bit to a side the turned side is paper even in an angle. Tiger 2 turn rate is slow. If you sidehug him he can't do anything but die uselessly.

If all your tactics boil down to sitting in front of things and autoaimimg them with AP you are gonna end up complaining about a lot more things.

[lean gate]

Day 51 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[stuck acorn]

not really. In wot PC ISU can camp effectively. In blitz it can't on most maps. That's why it needs DPM as a compensation. 704 can frontline fairly easly that's why it doesn't suffer that much from having less dpm

[nimble zodiac]

The gun is the only good thing about the tank. It can’t even out-trade a 122mm heavy with such low HP

[real bison]

^ an ISU 152 dies in 3 shots to most 122 guns on heavies, and they still have HP, or have all of it if they play their cards right

[fathom glacier]

Day 9 of asking wg to nerf type 71 armour

[terse sail]

I’ve stopped asking for a buff in the wz and now am asking for a nerf in the tiger 2’s armor

[nimble zodiac]

Press 2, problem solved.

[real bison]

as a tiger 2 player i agree with the above statement

[main tulip]

and what are the first and second best

@nimble zodiac he said premium so no T32

[nimble zodiac]

Probably T32 and Shark

Then maybe T26E5

[winged barn]

Enriched t32 superiority

[terse sail]

Bro I think the b1 is unbalanced (I think they are gonna nerf it now o noes)

[winged barn]

They haven't really even touched anything below tier 5 since they killed them

[terse sail]

That’s a relief

Also can someone tell me how to deal with fckn T1 heavies? Like they are the most annoying thing since cringe came out

[real bison]

take them from the sides and rear, and a calm head helps

[lethal blaze]

Play amx elc. Troll them to death lol. If you get to a T1 heavy’s side they can’t depress the gun enough to hit you. This tactic requires a teammate as bait so not really worth trying but is fun tho

[terse sail]

Thanks bro they are literal hell for my b1

[nimble zodiac]

They're just OP, so like, have some prammo at the ready

[lusty bluff]

My tip to new players is always try mediums or lights on wotb

[slim geyser]

I want the autoloader on the bulldog to get an intraclip buff(or at least get intraclip consumable) and maybe an alpha buff so autoloader bulldog playstyle becomes a viable alternative to the regular gun/the t71

[stuck acorn]

that would make T71 obsolete. Bulldog doesn't need autoloader gun at all tbh

[slim geyser]

It wouldn’t really. It can be a slight buff like 1.8 or 1.7 intraclip, the t71 is a more mobile autoloader that accelerates pretty quickly, gets intraclip boost, which still makes it very strong, and has better pen than the bulldog’s autoloader. A slight buff to the intraclip of the m41’s autoloader would make it a better alternative gun, as 2 seconds on a LT autoloader for only 160 alpha is a bit painful

[unique scaffold]

Amx 50 b needs old gun back pls or huge buff to new gun

[slim geyser]

the tanks are already different in playstyle, with the t71 being more of a turn fighter that can easily maintain its top speed while the m41 relies on its speed for hit and run tactics. buffing the intraclip reload for the m41 will just make bursting slightly easier for it, while not making the t71 obsolete(especially since the t71 can reduce its intraclip to 1 second with the clip consumable, basically making it a better chi ri)

[twilit crystal]

the clip consumable is pointless for t71

[pallid nest]

Obviously you have to ram them

[scarlet fjord]

run calibrated shells
and dab the 2 key
becomes paper everywhere

[quick lichen]

@broken delta you know you can discuss buffs here instead of #ask-wg ?

[winter plover]

Ngl yeah the KT should have the lfp brought back to 120mm, lets most t7 tanks have a chance of fighting it frontally (that isnt aiming for small weakspots), might be also beneficial for the KT players too due to less prammo spamming.

[broken delta]

Ok

[proven drum]

The one thing that makes the tiger 2 good is that it can bounce All t7 tanks np. Against t8 it has good armour when side scraping and good dpm. Making its cupola more reliable to pen could fix this issue

[unique scaffold]

Well, I think most of the point of the Tiger 2 is the fact it's so good vs lower pen tanks (balanced out by being horrible vs high pen or prammo), removing that advantage would mean it should get an upper plate buff or maybe a mobility buff, turning it into a pretty standard heavy. Good point about less prammo, however to make make the tank effective they would have to hide the lower plate, meaning prammo will still be used against them, especially as hull down even when not showing the upper plate the turret is very weak vs prammo, so not sure if that would work out as expected.

[slim geyser]

i would like to retract this statement on the m41's autoloader needing a buff, it has a unique playstyle which sorta resembles autoreloaders. the fast reload means you can fire one shell and reload the clip with little consequence, a bit like the italian tds in PC. this means the bulldog autoloader playstyle revolves around "always have a clip ready"

also the autoloader is fine when the context of its playstyle is factored

[twin egret]

oh

[unique scaffold]

Fair point, dpm isn't that good though, but I guess 12 secs or so isn't that long to wait

[fathom glacier]

Day 10 of asking wg to nerf type 71 armour

[winter plover]

Maybe just give it better mobility as compensation since it does not need to have an invulnerable ufp like Chi-Se.

I agree on the second one that it wouldn't completely make KT safe from T8 gold spam (hence the maybe), changing the tank on this way would make it's playstyle similar to E75.

[unique scaffold]

Yes, is that a good thing though? It seems to me the Tiger 2 is interesting to play as it is while being different from the E 75, without being OP or annoying to come up against, it's slow enough that lower tier meds etc. shouldn't find it that hard to deal with given they have some sort of skill. Basically I like the Tiger 2 how it is, a lot of people like to play it, at the same time I enjoy coming up against it, so I'm not sure why it should be made similar to a lower tier E 75. (Or even giving it a mobility buff while keeping it different from the E 75 would change the tank a lot)