The Acolyte - Episode 8 / Season 1 Finale Discussion

[gusty bear]

i neeeeeeeeeed

[brave topaz]

Dedra Meero’s actress said it right in an interview: “Fast Fascist Fashion”.

[small night]

It would look cute on you!

[gusty bear]

I support the Sith, but I don't support the Empire or First Order

[small night]

I mean cool.

[jade cape]

I may or may not be searching various spiral themed accoutrements to join the coven.

[brave topaz]

I briefly wondered if she was going to kill Sol with her shoulder pads.

But I guess that would count as a weapon.

[nimble mortar]

Yeah the resistance looked like their tailor made burlap sacks for a living. No wonder Holdo said "Nope, I'm not wearing that"

[small night]

Holdo love.

[gusty bear]

anything with a hood is good 👍🏽

[gusty bear]

is shoulder pads required for Sith? cause Vader has his whole chest piece. Reva has Inquisitor chest armor. Qimir has a V shaped tunic to enhance his gains.

[brave topaz]

It fits the whole Lord of the Rings trope.
The bad guys look fair but feel foul.
The good guys are either unwashed stubbly rangers or have too much unisex beige, but they are doing their best to keep people safe.

[brave topaz]

They just want you to notice them.

And admire them.

[small night]

I need to rewatch this episode so I can live vicariously through Osha.

[nimble mortar]

Did Qimir have a secret clothes stash like Lando in that cave? Osha arrived only with Mae's torn old clothes.

[brave topaz]

Before they, y’know, destroy you.

[gusty bear]

murder, but fabulously

[small night]

Qimir sews, confirmed?

[gusty bear]

you would've taken his hand 😂

[brave topaz]

Depends on if the cave was mostly where he lived, or mostly where Mae lived.
Since he kept his helmet on around her for years, if it was her cave living space he probably would have kept his stuff on his own ship.

[forest knoll]

the Jedi are the real Phantom Menace
not really but kinda

[small night]

I probably would have slapped his hand in a low five. Then broke into Show Me from My Fair Lady.

Oh so a less thirsty comment...
Who else excitedly reacted to the thought that Qimir may be able to just teleport through shadows?

Afterwards I realized he may have just flown up to get in.

[jade cape]

Kept his helmet on around Mae, but immediately dropped trou in front of Osha. Yes she had already seen his face, but what opposite sides.

[pure pewter]

right? malicious even

which makes you wonder....if Vern had come clean and been very honest, would Paplatine have had the runway to do what he did

[small night]

He is Erik with his little Christine dress.

[brave topaz]

Depends on if it was already too late to turn back the tide by the time Vern was born.

It’s possible the last time to turn back was when Vern was a teenager when all the book stuff happened
And now during The Acolyte her damage control is too little too late.

[pure pewter]

for sure. time is complex and connected and events are not insular

[small night]

I don't like all of the darkside or sith. I like nice people. I need nice people. But I really liked this show and how it ended. Because life. Entertainment is an escape but is also useful to show that the "good guys" 1) can't always win; 2) aren't always good.

[pure pewter]

my favorite media is usually stuff that aligns closer with real life than not. sure I like some light faire sometimes where good is good, bad is bad and good wins, but I generally prefer more complexity

[small night]

Makes me think of Lestat's response to his Louis judging himself. "Good and evil what are these terms?"

I love happy endings where love wins. And I love sad endings that teach us to survive, even thrive, through sadness.

[gusty bear]

evil paladins can exist

[orchid ice]

Played one in my DnD campaign lol

[midnight hill]

We also don’t know yet how THR phase 3 ends. I suspect something is going to happen that will make the senate more involved in Jedi matters.

[midnight hill]

As it is, ||Jedi and republic were already working together as a team since phase 1. Vern hated dealing with all the politics of it. On the contrary, her Master, Stellan, was really good at it.|| (THR book spoilers)

[late vault]

This this this this this. Somewhat unrelated, but this is why I gravitated to Andor so much. Finding a sense of realism makes it all feel so alive!

[nimble plover]

An observation I made, I'm going to put it simply. Mae is more selfless while Osha is more selfish. Look where they ended up.

[brave topaz]

Mae is more group-focused and develops emotional attachments more easily.
Osha is more individualistic and better at distancing herself from her attachments.

[frank violet]

No mocking intended, just silliness on my part. I apologize sincerely for added anxiety.

[late vault]

The last few episodes really solidified to me that Mae isn't inherently good or bad. She didn't switch sides because she was never on either side to begin with; she's more of an opportunist. She has this tact for being able to analyze the direction a situation is headed, then altering her place in order to make the outcome more beneficial for her. Qimir hinted at it when he mentioned that it took little to no convincing for Mae to desire becoming his apprentice. He mentioned that both he and Mae wanted completely different things. We also see it in action when they were headed towards Kelnacca's hut. Mae realized that she alone couldn't take on an entire Jedi task force, and that her killing Kelnacca had zero net-gain for her actual desires

[frank violet]

Mae is neutral. She has no malevolent intent, just a vigilante quest for what she feels to be justice.

Her Force use is largely not emotion-driven.

The one question is whether she would have been okay with Indara not catching the knife and the barkeep being killed (before she knew he was a dad).

Other than that, she has ranged from normal-to-kind around anyone not on her kill list.

[late vault]

It's hard to say. I think she'd view the death of the barkeep as pointless. Not that she would've felt guilty, but because she'd gain nothing from senseless killings. Now if the barkeep was somehow in kahoots with Indara, I think Mae wouldn't have cared if he died

[modern gazelle]

Tech=not married

[gusty bear]

Mae's sole motivation for everything is her sister. when she thought her dead, it was for revenge for her and Aniseya. once she knew she was alive though, that changed everything. she's more of a Han/scoundrel type. maybe could've been a bounty hunter in a different life.

[frank violet]

I guess she was going to kill the barkeep to silence him until she saw his kid.

Implicitly.

Thinking about how badly Torbin wanted to go home to Coruscant, and how once he made Master, he exiled himself far away from it.

[gusty bear]

his desire for home is what caused him to run off in the first place. maybe he considers it penance for what happened?

[frank violet]

That's my exact thought.

[brave topaz]

Very likely.
Presumably the guilt ate him alive until he took the Barash Vow.
And even then he had to stay in meditation and not talk to anyone to have even the semblance of peace.

[late vault]

I'm still pretty curious on the timeline. Because we're unsure how far long he is in his padawanship, it wouldn't be too outta left field for him to be knighted sometime after returning back to Coruscant. But reaching the rank of master so soon seems kinda wild

[frank violet]

Especially since he was probably still pretty emotionally messed up.

[nimble mortar]

He married the ground

[gusty bear]

don't you have to complete a Padawan's training to make master? could be wrong, but thought i read that

[frank violet]

Maybe not, if Anakin was outraged not to be made Master in ROTS.

[late vault]

Ooh good question! My headcanon's that being granted the rank of Jedi Master is similar earning your doctorate within a certain field. Both ranks solidify that the person in question has a profound understanding of their field; with their own contributions advancing that understanding

[nimble wyvern]

He was a knight by that point and already had a Padawan, just not Master.

[jade cape]

could have been an honorific title from after he took the vow?

[brave topaz]

After he took the vow and kept it for so long, he probably got a promotion for being so disciplined.

[pure pewter]

Absolutely! Part of why Andor is (IMO) the best live action Star War. And also my favorite.

[mortal cave]

I don't think Osha's joining Qimir was particularly realistic given what we've seen of her personality. Qimir killed Jecki and Yord. Qimir killed Yord AFTER Osha conviced Yord to go back. I don't see why she'd turn to him. Fight him to release her sister from her oaths to Qimir, yes. But not join him. Qimir is quite comfortable murdering others for his own power. I don't see Osha in that vein.

[jade cape]

"well, this guy is doing The Big Committment, might as well just call him Master"

[late vault]

I do think eventually Anakin would've rightfully earned the rank of Master, but the Anakin we see in ROTS he was neither ready nor worthy of being granted the rank

[late vault]

I had originally felt this way too, but I think things shifted when Osha spent time with Qimir at his hideout. It was there that she realized he wasn't as villainous as she was led to believe, and that both seemingly wanted the same things, they just went about it differently. To be fair, Qimir was subtly manipulating her, but so was Sol, the coven and many others

It isn't too far-fetched for someone with deep-rooted trauma to continually fall prey to veiled forms of manipulation. It's insanely heartbreaking because Osha believes these people care about her, when in reality they view her as a toy or some sort of novelty to be dissected. She just doesn't see it

[midnight hill]

And Osha decided to join Qimir after she knew the truth, touched the dark side, and needed to save her sister. Before that, she told him a straight no.

[forest knoll]

If i found out what I was told my whole life was a lie, I'd be mad. My mother(s) were killed by the man that "saved" and trained me. The Jedi were Liars. This group that i was fighting against turned out to be more trustworthy then the Jedi.

I'd want to see the world burn.

[surreal elk]

More and more I’m really liking with osha joining the dark side. It’s like last Jedi Rey denying the dark but osha embracing it after being lied to and hurt by sol. I kinda like this.

[late vault]

I agree 1,000%. Especially when villains double-down on their villainy. It feels much more realistic

[forest knoll]

and for Mae, she was discarded. She was a means to an end, her sister. She found out that she's essentially only half of a person. And her job was finished. those that needed to be killed were killed. Her mind was scrambled before the wipe.

[pure pewter]

this

[surreal elk]

I’m sure Mae will be used as a tool for the Jedi but I’m more curious what will happen to Osha. I just wanna know what they are if they’re two people who were supposed to be one. Still have questions about brendok

[brave topaz]

Osha’s dream as a child was much like Luke’s initial dream in A New Hope—passionate but unspecific.
Osha wanted to go off into the galaxy, and see and do wondrous new things, and escape the fate that would tie her down if she stayed at home.
The Jedi path initially offered her a road to her dream. She just got tripped up because of her trauma (which her teacher failed to help her with because he was secretly part of the problem).
But it turns out the Sith path offers more or less the same things that Osha always wanted.
And having bled a crystal, Osha is now primed for that dark path.

She may not be fully committed to the Sith philosophy at this time. But she’s made her deal with Qimir, and she’s on the road.

[mortal cave]

The Dark Side doesn't mean that you burn only those that deserve it. It means that you burn everyone who gets in your way. Need a shop? Kill the shopkeeper. Need to distract a Jedi? Try to kill an innocent child. That does not seem like Osha, betrayed or not. It's one thing to strike out at those you think have hurt you. It's another to kill people who are merely inconveniences.

[brave topaz]

I agree Osha’s not really at that stage right now.
I also don’t see her running out to kill whoever she wants willy nilly.
But choking your father figure to death and turning his crystal red in the process is a step in that direction.

[jade cape]

dark side is more Killing Allowed, not Killing Mandatory. if it would hinder your path to kill, instead of help it, you just don't

[forest knoll]

if there's a Season 2, i bet we'll see that conflict in her.

[jade cape]

I'm glad it wasn't another redemption story. reverse redemption, really.

[brave topaz]

People don’t become completely evil overnight, they work their way there.
That’s why they made The Clone Wars show, so we could actually see Anakin get worse and worse over time in small increments.

[brave topaz]

From a certain point of view, Sol was redeemed.

[jade cape]

I'm not sure I agree. he was always torn up about what he did, but he still went down thinking he did what was right

"I was trying to protect you" and not "I was wrong"

[brave topaz]

True, but Osha got to revenge herself on him.
And after 16 years of blaming Mae for what he and the other Jedi did, now he will be blamed forever for all of it.

[jade cape]

definitely. but I don't think Sol was redeemed, or that he actually needed redemption.

[brave topaz]

I’m using the word redeemed in a very technical sense.

[forest knoll]

lot's of villians...

[brave topaz]

He was freed from perpetuating his double-down bs
By being freed from life.

[jade cape]

Fair enough. I'm glad it wasn't redemption in the vein of Vader or Kylo.

[pure pewter]

totally agree

[jade cape]

Just because those stories have been told. I love seeing something new and different. And hot damn that bleeding kyber.

[gusty bear]

that was partly because it's pretty much unheard of for someone to sit on the council and not be given the rank of Master (versus a Knight with a padawan who calls them Master). since Palps got him his seat though, the Council didn't trust him.

[gusty bear]

that's one option! like Master Jocasta.

from the wookiepedia:

The most common path to this rank was to train and elevate several Padawans to the rank of Jedi Knight, typically one right after the other, and have them all successfully pass their Jedi Trials. If one did not wish to train several students, a Jedi Knight could choose to undergo a modified version of the Trials of Knighthood or gain attention for their service to the Republic. Each of these feats could gain the Jedi High Council's acknowledgment and result in a promotion to the rank of Jedi Master.

[nimble plover]

At first I was confused on why the emitter of the saber was like that. Then they showed the crystal starting to change. Just... amazing and heartbreaking at the same time.

[jade cape]

And then it came out blue, and I thought "oh, guess not" BUT THEN

What does the council think about why Torbin took the Barash Vow? If it was "a tragic accident" and for 15 years the other three were at least visibly fine.

[nimble mortar]

I loved how it wasn't just a sudden switch to red, but the slow cracking of the crystal, and the gradual sputtering change of the saber to red, it was so well done and really added to the dramatic effect when everyone was staring at it wide-eyed. One of the best little scenes in the series IMO.

[pure pewter]

gods I loved it

[thick heron]

I have to wonder if that scene was a big part of why they changed the hilt design for better lighting control

[nimble mortar]

Now there's needs to be a legacy cracked Sol saber with a visible crystal

[thick heron]

Cause it did indeed look awesome the blade slowly changing to red, and I wonder if previous iterations of stunt sabers wouldn’t have looked as good

[nimble mortar]

There's an interesting question - was it a practical neopixel effect, or done in post?

[thick heron]

Yeah I wonder, lots of what we’ve heard about the change to the hilts seems to boil down to better lighting control, and they definitely nailed it with that scene if so

Seeing the kyber bleeding was like seeing Cortosis on screen. Like holy crap, I’m actually seeing something I’ve only been able to imagine up to this point

[gusty bear]

my guess is both. Hayden has talked about the new stunt sabers and mentioned they have lights to help light faces accurately now, compared to the lack of reflected color from the OT and PT.

but then heavily enhanced in post

[thick heron]

That’s been one of my favourite things, you can see the saber act as an actual light source without it all being CGI. Like the closeup of Kelnacca holding Torbin’s head against the wall. Torbin’s face is lit up yellow/green from blocking Kelnacca’s saber

Or the start of Qimir and Sol’s duel in this episode where they’re inside in the dark, their sabers lit the place up. So beautiful

[gusty bear]

i find it incredibly funny (in a good way) that one of the best scenes from this show is 2 Asian actors sword fighting. comparing West vs East fight choreo, they're distinctly different styles that are very noticeable in Acolyte. Vader vs Obi in Kenobi was very Western longsword influenced in comparison.

especially since Hiroyuki Sanada has said he would do Star Wars and i've been dying for him to play a Sith

we'll likely see more of these long beautifully lit fight scenes instead of OT Vader vs Obi

[thick heron]

Oh yeah, the OG Death Star duel they acted like they were carrying 50lb two handed broadswords

But that isn’t as interesting to watch lol

Kingdom of Heaven (ironically also featuring Liam Neeson) has a decent portrayal of European long sword fighting

[brave topaz]

It is when you’re little and you’ve never seen anything like it and it rewires your brain.

https://tenor.com/view/good-times-tyler-oakley-nostalgic-old-times-reminiscent-gif-17540552

[gusty bear]

was it pre or post Phantom Menace? lolll

[thick heron]

Post lol, rather than Ewan as his padawan, Orlando Bloom is his illegitimate son

And he was a crusader returned from Jerusalem looking for Orlando to have someone to pass his fortune on to

[pure pewter]

Kingdom of Heaven DC is a very good film

[thick heron]

Yeah, it’s a really good movie, but long

[gusty bear]

with Eva Green, sold 😂

[thick heron]

I was a million percent surprised by the cameo of ||Alexander Siddig, aka Dr.Bashir from DS9||

[pure pewter]

haha, yes! same, it was a delight when I first saw it

[thick heron]

Yep it’s got a solid cast

[pure pewter]

the theatrical is decent, but the beginning really feels sorta random, whereas the DC I think fills everything in

at the expense of a long sitting

[thick heron]

I think the length and religious themes kept it from being a bigger hit

[pure pewter]

yeah

well I was going to continue but OT

anyways, what the hell was Yoda doing this whole time in that room

[gusty bear]

not dealing with Sith for the next hundred years 😂

[pure pewter]

lol so it would seem

absolutely over it

[frank violet]

I thought you were talking about this episode, and I was so confused. Ran to Wookieepedia and everything.

[thick heron]

lol

[frank violet]

Especially after people were talking about a "voice cameo" earlier and I still don't know what that was about.

[thick heron]

I’m pretty sure Yoda was pretty useless in the HR books I’ve read too. Yaddle was out getting stuff done, but Yoda? Nah

[modern gazelle]

Anybody catch Vernestra in that cave?

[orchid ice]

https://tenor.com/view/darth-plagueis-acolyte-plagueis-reveal-hello-gif-4336899279523541136

awwyiss the GIFs are appearing

[wheat bramble]

https://tenor.com/view/acolyte-kyber-crystal-sol-lightsaber-osha-gif-8977023486772547895

[orchid ice]

the fact the crystal sticks out of his hilt

[thick heron]

https://tenor.com/view/acolyte-kyber-crystal-sol-lightsaber-osha-gif-13461568337500108488

[frank violet]

I wonder if it had to be in physical contact with her to bleed.

Which would explain Anakin's saber not changing.

[orchid ice]

The subtle hint that she might turn by having her change into dark clothes before they left

[frank violet]

In fact, I'd bet that's exactly what's intended here.

The red seeps from her hand toward the tip of the crystal.

[orchid ice]

Did it without knowing it

[frank violet]

I guess the Legacy will have to be Sol's Lightsaber (Broken).

[gusty bear]

there's also a dark vein on her hand that lines up with the crystal

as it bleeds

[orchid ice]

But doesn't explain what's his name from Fallen Order which is canon as well, he didnt come in contact with his crystal

And Vader comics show he had to bleed a crystal later on

But for her it was a subconsious thing and being in contact with the crystal most likely was reason for it being bled

[brave topaz]

I’m gonna say it needs to be force contact at a minimum.
But if you’re touching it physically then you can channel the force and bleed it without entirely noticing you did that in the moment.

[forest knoll]

this must be why all my lights keep turning red.

[brave topaz]

Too much negative emotion.

Do you need a snickers bar?

[orchid ice]

Mine are red for the AESTHETIC

[forest knoll]

maaaaaybe

[brave topaz]

You’re never on the light side when you’re hungry.

[forest knoll]

*hangry

[brave topaz]

Or perhaps I can offer you some cute skura in this trying time.

[orchid ice]

https://tenor.com/view/so-ugly-i-love-him-awesome-thanks-smile-gif-17914121

[frank violet]

Did the crystal pop out through the activation button, or is there another window on the opposite side that it poked through?
https://preview.redd.it/a-new-look-at-master-sols-lightsaber-from-the-acolyte-v0-l1d0m5po3c0d1.jpeg?auto=webp&s=5fc1f3a527686d2b0dda75e4cb5bf258d7864364

I guess it's too off-center to be that spot.

[wheat bramble]

Red lights at Grim’s?? Umm… uhhh….

[frank violet]

May have just broken straight through the solid casing.

[orchid ice]

thats what i noticed

[frank violet]

Good thing the blade went straight out instead of igniting through her hand.

[wheat bramble]

Maybe giving Anakin one would have saved the whole Republic?

[frank violet]

Or bad thing, depending on where things go.

[wheat bramble]

We need a gif that merges the one I had and the one @thick heron posted.

[orchid ice]

I mean Starkiller had full blown exposed crystal chamber and was fine

[frank violet]

But was one of the pointy ends askew?

[orchid ice]

long as the focus and emitter parts are good I think it's fine

Also don't remember Sol's saber getting broken at any point just Qimirs

[thick heron]

It did look like the kyber got dislodged when it hit the stone after being pulled from Sol’s hand, but I do wonder how the saber worked unless Osha also unknowingly re-seated the kyber while bleeding it

[midnight hill]

Although, he came in clutch at the end of Midnight Horizon

[orchid ice]

Honestly Yoda got the position of master just because of how old he is at this point, and you can't change my mind on that.

[thick heron]

Ah that’s one I haven’t read. The ones I have where he’s been mentioned it’s just been like “he can’t be bothered, but here’s off brand Yoda, Yaddle!”

[brave topaz]

Palpatine would have just distracted Anakin and then manipulated another Jedi (or Jar Jar) into eating it.
Thus increasing Anakin’s rage.

[orchid ice]

https://tenor.com/view/acolyte-bazil-tynnan-fight-punch-gif-14227605127858999186

THEN THERE'S THIS LITTLE SABOTUER

[forest knoll]

Title and description updated.

[thick heron]

Is Plagueis confirmed in the credits?

[orchid ice]

Credits dont list all the character to begin with unfortunately, even the unamed jedi

Thing they're just all lumped under a big cast list

[brave topaz]

Maybe check the special effects section credits.
Someone might have been credited as making the “Plagueis Figure”.

Or maybe they just call him “Mysterious Cave Creeper”.

[orchid ice]

Thinks about how Micheal Myers is literally just called "the shadow" in the original Halloween

[brave topaz]

Also in that gif Plagueis’ hand is the exact same color and nearly the same texture as the wall it’s resting on.

That’s spooky as hell.

[midnight hill]

Same as the skura, camouflage at its best.

[orchid ice]

Guest Starring only includes the convicts, little mae and osha, younglings, Fillik, and Tasi Lowa

There's a whole list of puppeteers and performance artists, stunt doubles for the main characters, and the acting doubles

but nothing mentions Plageious directly

[thick heron]

I just looked at the credits and yeah there’s nothing with character names besides a few of the people that played senators

[orchid ice]

Additional voices

SAM WITWER

https://tenor.com/view/charlie-day-gif-18564553

[thick heron]

Did creepy cave man make any noises?

I don’t remember

[orchid ice]

No he didnt I just usually assume Sam knows the real answers to everything

[thick heron]

I thought it funny they had a credited Star Wars lore consultant

How do I get that job lol

[orchid ice]

It was probably Sam

https://tenor.com/view/charlie-day-gif-18564553

[thick heron]

Pablo something I believe

I was surprised it wasn’t Filoni

Double checked, Pablo Hidalgo

[orchid ice]

Who Sam has had to correct and inform! It all connects back to him!

He's freaking Palpatine irl

In all seriousness Pablo was probably in charge of looking through legends and canon material to cross reference things that would still work or could be merged into current canon stories

[jade cape]

Is he made of cave or is cave made of flesh?

[brave topaz]

He becomes one with the cave.

So the first one, I guess.

Also, ew. 😬

[toxic sentinel]

God people are so toxic, I swear people will do anything to prove the Acolyte has no issues and doesn't have any conflicting interventions with canon.

[forest knoll]

https://tenor.com/view/hadeel928-يوسف-العماري-موسى-الخنيزي-gif-2017750647488235235

[shell aurora]

I really didn't like his character

[forest knoll]

we are just trying to enjoy ourselves, sorry about that?

[brave topaz]

I would have liked for the direction/writing to do more to telegraph Bazil’s thought process.
Parts of what he was doing I understood, other actions were murky.

His martial arts spin always makes me chuckle regardless.

[jade cape]

His spin was adorable. I wonder if he's supposed to be young.

It was a very childlike spin.

[brave topaz]

Bazil seemed a bit grumpy to me, but in a “I take my job very seriously” sort of way.
He was on alert even before everything went to hell.

So maybe he is young and earnest?

It’s hard to tell lol

[jade cape]

"These idiots can't smell anything, gotta do everything myself"

[orchid ice]

https://tenor.com/view/weekend-party-champagne-gif-18280013

Proceeds to list counters and rebuttals, points out issues with the OT, PT, and ST, CW, Rebels etc etc, gives examples of how recent shows help to explain overarching story lines that originally didnt make sense yadda yadda. All of it gets ignored because it doesn't fit their OPINIONS on the show and we wind up in the same place as we started.

Welcome to Star Wars fandom in a nutshell, long as its got lightsabers, sick fights, and spaceships it's S tier

[gusty bear]

what kind of energy does complaining bring? the SW fan community is millions, if not billions, strong and that's a lot of opinions to cater to. i may not like something, but i'm going to spend more time talking about what i like than what i don't because my ego isn't so big that i think it has to appeal to solely me. i haven't been able to get through Andor, but i'm not here complaining about the plot every episode. instead, i will ooooo and awww over the amazing costumes and cinematography. if that's my toxic trait, #StayToxic.

[orchid ice]

This still makes me wonder what was up with him on the ship with Mae and Sol though, cause I couldn't tell if he knew it was Mae or not

[jade cape]

He knew

[orchid ice]

Though that also brings into question how similar her and Osha really are

[jade cape]

He gave her the stink eye immediately

[orchid ice]

True

but then sabotages Sol

Bazil confirmed to be a double agent

[vague bloom]

https://tenor.com/view/bait-thats-bait-tom-hardy-mad-max-gif-5055384

[frank violet]

Nothin' more toxic than...being chill with something new and enjoying it, I guess?

[midnight hill]

I’m guessing he has worked a lot with the Jedi and noticed that Sol was clearly not acting like one. That’s how I saw that scene.

[orchid ice]

That's fair... might've been able to sense something about Sol was off

[midnight hill]

That’s exactly my thought on it

[frank violet]

There's "the driver of my car is acting weird" and then there's "...so I'll rip all the wires out of the engine, cut the brakes, and take my chances with whatever happens next."

[jade cape]

He's going to kill us! Let's make that more likely by removing control.

[frank violet]

Oh. I figured it out.

[frank violet]

He's trying to save Pip.

[orchid ice]

Probably the most likely answer lol

[midnight hill]

I would have done the same.

[frank violet]

Pip, everybody's best friend!

[orchid ice]

Until he wasn't

[midnight hill]

He is always the best friend. Even after reset, he helped his new best friend.

[frank violet]

He just has to get to know you.

[jade cape]

His oldest friend

[gusty bear]

we're all screwed if Pip appears at Droid Depot 😂

[frank violet]

We still don't know what happened to Pip's first body, huh.

[midnight hill]

I cackled when he sprayed Osha

[frank violet]

I wonder if the new one came with worn stickers too.

[orchid ice]

Left on the planet probably

Mae only took Osha's clothes and Qimir wouldn't have looked around for a droid body

[frank violet]

Surely. I just mean at what point both Mae and Qimir seemingly decided to just leave it there.

Assuming Osha didn't just drop it when she ripped his head off.

Which may be why nobody had it.

[orchid ice]

pretty likely

running around a jungle, fighting your once thought to be dead twin

[midnight hill]

We need someone to go to Khofar on a search and rescue for Pip’s body

[orchid ice]

being chased by a guy in a terrifying helmet that just merced and entire team of jedi

[frank violet]

Acolyte II: The Search for Pip.

[wheat bramble]

I am one with the cave and the cave is with me.

[nimble plover]

Star Trek Discovery Season 5 spoilers: ||Also, if I had a nickel for every time I've seen an African-American actress with dreadlocks fight herself in a sci fi show, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice.|| iykyk

[frank violet]

||Mae and Osha don't have dreadlocks.||

[nimble mortar]

Bazil annoyed me a little as well, he seemed like a little chaos goblin but I feel like there need to be some explanation behind him sabotaging the ship

[jade cape]

Aniseya had locs, the twins had braids.

[shell aurora]

"twins"

[wheat bramble]

Just because I made this for someone…

[nimble plover]

||I'll be honest, I don't know what the style is called, but it looks similar to Michael Burnham's hairstyle in Disco. No offense would ever be intended.||

[brave topaz]

It has been claimed by an umbramoth.

[frank violet]

As its new best friend?

[brave topaz]

Yes let’s go with that.

It’s nicer than the other idea I had where the umbramoth confuses Pip’s body for an infant umbramoth grub and lovingly encases it in cocoon webbing.

[nimble mortar]

Osha tossed Pip's head, but the body was still on her belt and made it back to the ship

Bazil found the head and brought that back

[midnight hill]

Now I’m imagining an umbramoth flying the forest with Pip’s body on their legs like a tablet. 😂

[frank violet]

Mae scavenged a new body from a pile of parts, didn't she? Or had she tossed the headless body on the pile in the first place?

[jade cape]

That's what I thought, it was still in the pouch that Mae grabbed

[frank violet]

If I mistook Mae finding a new body, that changes everything.

[brave topaz]

Pip definitely got a new body.

But even if the old body made it onto the ship, we’re not quite sure where it ended up I guess?

[jade cape]

Not really. The body is just parts, Pip "lives" in the head.

Old body, new body. I don't think it matters much.

[brave topaz]

I think some of us were holding out hope that Pip had a “backup memory” in his original body.

So he could be restored to be Osha’s Pip

But I think that ship has sailed.

Pip, Mae and Osha have all changed.

[gusty bear]

Mae found the pile of bodies and already had the head in hand, using it as a flashlight

[brave topaz]

There is no going back.

[jade cape]

Unless Osha had a backup in her stuff. On a flash drive or something

[trail tendon]

I just realized I was right. Mae and Osha are not twins, but the same person, according to Sol. So she really does have multiple personalities disorder, it’s just external.
Right?

[nimble mortar]

https://tenor.com/view/fozzy-bear-fozzie-muppets-jokes-dad-joke-gif-16043362

don't you mean "I think that Pip has sailed"?

[brave topaz]

https://tenor.com/view/ice-age-crash-and-eddie-oh-thats-way-better-way-better-thats-better-gif-25970133

[brave topaz]

…maybe?
I don’t know if that’s how the force works lol.

[trail tendon]

The Force works in mysterious ways…damn, now the U2 song is stuck in my head.

[jade cape]

Eh. They have the same force signature, but then it comes down to how that that's interpreted. It's definitely not multiple personality.

[gusty bear]

if they had split after birth, kinda of? that's not really how DID (as it's called now) works though.

[orchid ice]

https://tenor.com/view/luke-skywalker-overconfidence-weakness-quotes-star-wars-gif-11834123

[frank violet]

I feel like I've Mandela Effected into a universe where the thing Fozzie says isn't spelled "Wocka wocka wocka".

Or is he Fozzy here?? 😨

[small night]

I thought while scrolling this said Coronation and thought "aw she became a queen."

Not dark but beautiful as the dawn

Treacherous as the sea

Stronger than the foundations of the Earth!

*All shall love me and despair! *

[wheat bramble]

https://tenor.com/view/go-leave-me-alone-golden-girls-you-have-to-go-now-rose-gif-22287138

[austere tiger]

Not really specific to this episode, but...
When I was a teen, I read a novel by Jane Yolen called Sister Light, Sister Dark that featured a female-only community that had the ability to call forth "shadow sisters" in moonlight, who shared a soul with them but were distinct people in their own right. I can't help but wonder whether Leslye Headland or anyone who worked on The Acolyte ever read it.

[jade cape]

Or saw Us maybe?

[shell aurora]

https://tenor.com/view/popcorn-guy-relaxing-popcorm-popcorn-gif-26404903

[orchid ice]

https://tenor.com/view/beach-mirror-aesthetic-reflection-waves-gif-17768137

[forest knoll]

?mute @toxic sentinel 1hour yeah if you just going to troll you can leave.

[weak spruce]

mentorzeph was muted. | yeah if you just going to troll you can leave.

[orchid ice]

https://tenor.com/view/waiting-simpsons-homer-whistle-gif-5694935

[forest knoll]

We don't have an issue with people having a difference of opinion but let be respectful. That means not coming in hot with "God people are so toxic, I swear people will do anything to prove the Acolyte has no issues and doesn't have any conflicting interventions with canon."

And for everyone else, don't feed the trolls

[orchid ice]

https://tenor.com/view/aye-captain-gibbs-potc-gif-11148230

[shell aurora]

While he certainly went about it the wrong way, there are people who just refuse to accept any kind of criticism about the show which is just as unconstructive as people who hate on it just to hate on it.

[forest knoll]

yes there are a few,...

I'm sorry Ace, but you are literally one of those.

[shell aurora]

Huh?

I don't hate on it just to hate on it

[forest knoll]

we have a bunch of people willing to die on their mountains and it's just not constructive.

[shell aurora]

I talk about the good and the bad, but when I give criticism I get attacked by people unwilling to accept any criticism of the show

[forest knoll]

i've see you attack others.

[shell aurora]

So I can see how you think I'm trying to die on a hill

When I'm just defending my position

[orchid ice]

We have listed criticisms, most of us however just tend to only focus on positives or stuff we like because negetivity gets us nowhere good in the end. It's about the perspective we choose to take and staying on the more positive side of things is the perspective most of us have chosen to have. Have to read the room sometimes and be able to understand that the room might not be for you.

[forest knoll]

they are defending their opinion too. One opinion is not more important then another's.

[orchid ice]

We've created a very welcoming and warm place to get away from most of the rest of the internet which unfortunately has become mostly hateful towards anybody that has positive thoughts about anything recent in relation to Star Wars.

[shell aurora]

That's why I like this server because we don't have the super toxic people. But it can go the other way too, where only praise is allowed and get out if you don't like something

[forest knoll]

I’ve said I said. Do what you want with it. Believe me or don’t. It doesn’t matter.

[gusty bear]

we probably all have minor or even major criticisms about various SW projects, but negativity just brings in more negativity. vent about those to friends or social media channels that welcome that, but here, it seems like people want to focus on discussing things they liked rather than didn't like. no one said get out. Grim and many people who have tried to explain it to you are simply saying this isn't the place that wants to allow negative energy into such an inclusive space.

[shell aurora]

Yeah, I get it. Message heard loud and clear

[forest knoll]

Dude, do a search on your post and tell me that a majority of them are not negative or argumentative

[orchid ice]

Like I just said though we get so much hate from everywhere else on social media that we are going to be very defensive when it comes here too. You spend all this time decorating your house to be exactly the way you want it and how you want to be able to enjoy it, then someone comes in and says "oh this is all wrong and thats not how you should have done things" you'd be pretty defensive towards that person.

[forest knoll]

Let’s not dogpile on ace, please. I know you all have good intentions

[orchid ice]

https://tenor.com/view/the-acolyte-force-push-star-wars-jedi-the-master-gif-209334768537926240

cant get over how good all the saber colors together look

https://tenor.com/view/jedi-the-acolyte-star-wars-blue-green-gif-8734485941098138451

they made yellow so dang clean looking

[orchid ice]

Noticing something... was the dirt on this planet red?

If not really great way to show off how much he was overpowering them with the way the red off his saber spreads out as he blasts them back

[gusty bear]

i don't think so? i thought it was an effect of his force push or he borrowed a smoke bomb from Mae.

whatever she did when she was cornered by the Jedi team before Brendok

[orchid ice]

Could just be the GIF quality but i think it's the glow off his saber the more i look at it

[frank violet]

There was a layer of reddish spores on the ground there.

Mae fell in them earlier.

[shell aurora]

Yes, you can see it when vern shows up to the scene

[orchid ice]

Ooooh that's ruight

great visual still either way

[frank violet]

Mae did the same trick with street dirt after Torbin, yeah.

[jade cape]

not enough purple there. or any, really.

[orchid ice]

Yeah but it's been talked about before that Mace's saber isnt crystal powered iirc which was the in universe reason instead of "I want a purple one George"

Though they do sell purple crystals and Vern's is purple... so wonder if they followed the old "lightsaber colors represent their rank or personality" reasoning

[jade cape]

Vern was internally channeling Sam Jackson, so I can buy that

[orchid ice]

Mace was #2 in the order during his time and Vern is here so might be why we don't see many more purple then... hers is also a lightwhip and not traditional saber so she might not have an actual crystal either

https://tenor.com/view/charlie-day-gif-18564553

[timid oasis]

finished watching it! I really enjoyed it a great ending and it's nice to see some role reversal conclusion

[orchid ice]

They both didn't like the senate, kept secrets... wait...

Vern is Mace Windu's grandmother

It all makes sense

[toxic sentinel]

So what's your theory on what she told Master Yoda after the meeting with the Senate?

[orchid ice]

Either told him the entire truth and he chose to side with her on hiding the information until more was available, or she would up doing the same as with the senators and twisted the truth to make things seem less serious than they were.

[jade cape]

that's the big question. did she tell him the truth and make Master Yoda complicit in the coverup, or did she lie to him, keeping his hands clean but making her even worse.

[toxic sentinel]

It's still intriguing either way

[gusty bear]

i think she told him because she may want to keep it from the Senate, but is she daring enough to keep it from the future Grand Master (psht maybe even already Grand Master) of the Council?

he's old, idk when he got the title 😂

[orchid ice]

The jedi have been known to keep things internal and lie, happened during the prequals and the big one of course was Obi-Wan with Luke

He's more than likely already grandmaster

[toxic sentinel]

I believe he became Grand Master in 796 BBY

Don't quote me

[gusty bear]

if it's true, he should be Grand Master then. i don't think Vern is going to lie to the highest person in the Order.

[orchid ice]

As of currently only canon answer is at least 82 BBY

Legends places it between like 600 and 800 bby

[shell aurora]

Obi-wan didn't lie to Luke to cover anything up. He did it to protect Luke from a truth he wasn't ready to hear

[toxic sentinel]

I just want all answers immediately 😭

[orchid ice]

And the senate wasn't ready to hear that the sith might be back and are wiping out whole groups of our order that is supposed to be a protective force in the universe

[toxic sentinel]

Realistically wouldn't Yoda have hunted them down if he knew?

[orchid ice]

Only if he knew they were back, meaning Vern mostly likely lied

[shell aurora]

So you think vern is justified in betraying Sol and lying about him?

[toxic sentinel]

Yea her lying is the only reason why he didn't talk about this in Phantom

[forest knoll]

Yeah, I think there’s a difference between saying Vader killed Anakin vs not telling there’s a super bad guy jacking people up.

[orchid ice]

In her mind she is, for all those reasons I just said. To me no, she should've owned up to it

[toxic sentinel]

Right. but do you think Yoda would've sensed something wasn't right about Sol really not betraying the Order?

[forest knoll]

I think Yoda knows. But now I’m wondering if he supports Vern.

[toxic sentinel]

Agreed.

[orchid ice]

Kept it hush hush

[toxic sentinel]

Is there any possibility for season 2?

[forest knoll]

He could keep it a secret too. My views of the Jedi are in development

[orchid ice]

To the point that in the prequals he wouldn't admit to this happening before when Ki-Adi says his line

[forest knoll]

And that’s the point of this show

[nimble plover]

https://tenor.com/view/rogue-one-high-gif-22113252

[orchid ice]

Kind of makes the whole him blowing up the jedi texts in TLJ even more of a "yeah we were dumb dont keep trying to be like us" moment

[toxic sentinel]

I do gotta remember though this almost right before the Senate had full authority over the Order

[forest knoll]

The idea that the Jedi are doing the right thing according to them at all cost has always been there, but this is shoving it in our faces now

Which is good

It’s creating an emotional reaction.

[toxic sentinel]

I'm not the only one who gasped when Yoda's ears started appearing right?

[forest knoll]

Again, They aren’t as bad as the Sith(in my mind) but where’s that line?

[forest knoll]

I want to point out, didn’t he technically betray the order as a whole by not challenging this lie?

[forest knoll]

I feel that there are many victims AND maybe just as many villains

[toxic sentinel]

Yea you have a very strong point

Just adds more questions darn it

[shell aurora]

What is vern's position? She seems to have a lot of power for someone not even on the council

[toxic sentinel]

I believe she represents all the Jedi in the Senate, and has her own office in the Senate building

She was wearing that fancy dress with her saber on her hip at the end of the finale, to me she looks like the bridge between both organizations

[shell aurora]

Also why are they all wearing the same outfit most of the time?

[orchid ice]

Think that falls in line with them being a very important faction in the universe

[toxic sentinel]

The High Republic was known for it too

[orchid ice]

If they're all wearing the same thing its easy to spot them

[toxic sentinel]

The elegance was too tier

Top**

[shell aurora]

Yeah but why did this change not even 100 years later

It's weird to me

[orchid ice]

As mentioned this was right before the senate took control

[toxic sentinel]

That's a great question

[orchid ice]

could be something as simple as budget

[toxic sentinel]

The Senate really started in on the Jedi right after powers were given to them

[shell aurora]

I don't believe that. This is star wars their budget is massive

[frank violet]

I assume something happened that encouraged the Jedi to show a little more humility in their official dress.

[orchid ice]

I mean really want to get into there's probably a whole list of factors. Think of something like a corporate buyout of a smaller company to a larger company.

[shell aurora]

180 million for 8 episodes

[forest knoll]

Could be intent. Militaries wear the same thing to distinguish themselves from others. Show they are special.tell the difference between them and civilians. Something could have happened in the timeline for them to rethink this.

[orchid ice]

Smaller company usually just gets downsized and split up

[forest knoll]

I think in the comics they wear the same thing. THR fans can correct me.

[orchid ice]

Senate steps in and starts taking out or taking control of stuff that they don't think is necessary for the jedi to continue operating, denies support for them if doesn't benefit them and starts to treat them as a utility to be used as they see fit.

Nice fancy matching robes for an entire order of people would mostly be one of the first things to go.

Potentially have more and more Jedi start to leave the order as it becomes more and more locked down, Jedi become more relaxed and start to care less about things like their uniforms and more about how to preserve what's left and ensuring future Jedi still carry their ideals and beliefs

The galaxy as a whole also also declined very quickly not just the Jedi

[shell aurora]

That sounds like a whole lot of conjecture, is there media that supports that are you just theory crafting?

[late vault]

Speaking of...Vern needs to get in touch w Mon Mothma's stylist asap idk idk

[orchid ice]

At this point everything could be theory crafting but there's a lot of context clues in the media available.

[nimble plover]

Theory: Qimir is an apprentice of Plagueis, either current or former. Qimir is attempting to gain the power to be FREE of a master. To do that, he likely needs an apprentice, an accomplice. I base that on both his speech to Sol in episode 5, and his use of Force healing in the same episode. Force healing would be presumably something Plagueis could teach since he was able to "keep the ones he cares about from dying". As for why Palpatine never passed the technique on to Anakin, I don't think Palpatine was able to use it. He might have been able to learn the theory from Plagueis, but could never put it into practice. As we've learned from other instances, using Force healing requires some sacrifice of their own personal life force. A selfless act, something that not all Sith are able to do, and especially not Palpatine.

[late vault]

A few reasons. I think because their mission attire is...for missions, there wasn't much of a concerted effort to personalize it. Most Jedi during the time put a greater effort in their formal attire

It does seem a little wonky considering high republic Jedi were usually more expressive in personalizing many facets of their lives (the uniqueness of their hilts, the stylization of their robes, the personalization of their dorms and crew quarters etc). The Jedi Order in its entirety shifted after the Nihil conflicts, which marked the last days of the high republic (and everything it encompassed)

[orchid ice]

Most of what I said also has direct real world parallels, most of it just major historical events. Star Wars was and has continued to be a reflection of past and somewhat current political and historical situations from around the world. Could use going from the roaring 20s straight into the great depression or the dark ages.

[shell aurora]

Is it just me or are their sabers also very.... Boring looking? And they are so thicccc

Like the art I've seen of THR are very flashy sabers, almost garish

And these look more like Savi's scrap than the pinnacle of saber construction

[late vault]

I mean you could say the same for the clan hilts from the prequels. Again, the jedi order we see in the acolyte is different from the jedi order we see even hundred years prior during the Nihil conflict

[orchid ice]

Out of universe reason, the light tubes, wireless components and battery systems for all the components had to be fit inside the hilts

[shell aurora]

3rd party sabers prove this is possible without really thick hilts though

[shell aurora]

The clan hilts feel like they have more bling though

[orchid ice]

This also isn't hobby grade stuff meant to be displayed or just occasionally be swung around.

[late vault]

Stellan Gios and I laughed at this

[forest knoll]

I feel like this makes more sense.

[shell aurora]

There are dueling sabers you know

[shell aurora]

Yeah stellan is what I was expecting

But it wasn't nearly as flashy as thst

[orchid ice]

That don't contain wireless transponders or a lighting system built for studio grade movie use and being wielded by someone thats being tossed around during extreme stunts

[late vault]

They're a product of their time. The Jedi Order's attitudes, demeanors and overall morale shifted from optimism towards pragmatism. I cannot stress enough just how traumatizing the Nihil Conflict was for the Jedi Order. I liken this shift to America pre-9/11 vs America post-9/11

Vern's presence in The Acolyte is the living embodiment of that shift in the Order. The Vern we're first introduced to when she was freshly knighted, compared to the Vern we see in The Acolyte are nearly two different people

[orchid ice]

the blades inside the sabers for acolyte need to provide enough light and have a high enough output to be replace the need for a digital artist to add it in later. they are also built to react to things like clashes and flashes which are all triggered via wireless systems that were built into the hilt, all this also required a much larger battery pack to be installed into the sabers to be able to power all of that and do it for more than a couple of minutes at a time

[shell aurora]

Don't THR books take place around this same time

[shell aurora]

Do you have any evidence of this?

[orchid ice]

Ahsokas sabers had the same tech but the battery packs for her sabers were attached to her body with a power cable run through the costume to the sabers

[orchid ice]

https://tenor.com/view/muppet-kermit-the-frog-type-typing-type-writer-gif-10954656665750753801

tons of articles, forums, posts from people on the design and production team

[late vault]

The same time as the Acolyte? Nope. The Acolyte takes place about a hundred years after the Nihil Conflict

[shell aurora]

Ok fair enough

[shell aurora]

Ah ok that explains my confusion

[late vault]

Yeah this definitely changed my view on the hilts. Having greater control over lighting is crucial for production! I I'd only hope that the tech they've innovated progresses to thinner hilts but eh I'm content either way. The duels alone made up for it

[orchid ice]

Like we aren't all just theory crafting when we explain things, we've taken the time to look into stuff, read the books, watched the behind the scenes specials, read the comics, etc etc.

Most of what we talk about is out there we've just taken the time to look it up

[vivid vessel]

Welp. I've just had time to watch it and... yeah. That was a pretty satisfying ending. If we never get a followup season I think I'd be okay with this standing as a story on its own merits.

[midnight hill]

shares picture of the last THR comic from phase 3 that says in the cover, century before Acolyte 😁

[shell aurora]

Given I haven't read a single book or comic of THR that would explain why I didn't know

[late vault]

AHHHHH LOOK AT SKEEER🥺

[midnight hill]

We are here to help! 💜

[midnight hill]

Ikr

[late vault]

You gotta read them bro! They're amazing

[orchid ice]

They're working on it. Like I mentioned Ashoka had a battery back in her costume with a power cable running to her sabers so they've gone from that to being contained within the hilt.

[shell aurora]

Ehh, I haven't really been interested enough to want to read them

[forest knoll]

Those saber look a little on the chonky side.

All sabers are beautiful

[midnight hill]

I know this was talked before, but there’s a bunch of purple lightsabers in THR. Including Lys from Young Jedi Adventures, which I adore.

[orchid ice]

Also talking about chonky... Anybody ever held a real Graflex flash before, even without all the Xtra bits those things are not skinny

[forest knoll]

Real Lighsabers Have Curves.

[late vault]

Makes me excited to see what's in store for future live action projects!

I love love love Sol's hilt. It's simple yet unique

[orchid ice]

Its a very nice hilt from what we've been able to see so far, would love a better look into all their hilts

[midnight hill]

I’m wondering if they are going to include them on the THR lightsaber encyclopedia

[frank violet]

Did nobody take good detail photos at the VIP theatrical preview event?

[orchid ice]

This is the part where I'm gonna sound a little harsh, you have to stop questioning everything and trying to act like there's no evidence or that we don't have evidence to back the stuff we're saying up, if you haven't taken the time to look for it yourself. We build all of our theories and opinions on the questions being asked because we've all spent the time doing the research, reading the books and comics, watching the shows and movies, and digging into the behind the scenes stuff. We're not just making stuff up to make justifications, we're using what we know and looking into things further to see if there even is a justification for why something might be the way it is.

[orchid ice]

Not entirely sure, haven't seen anything so they might have been no camera's inside type of deal

I remember the Jungle Cruise and Skipper Canteen got an early preview of The Jungle Cruise movie but no phones or cameras were allowed for it.

Except like outside

[frank violet]

I definitely saw pictures of the saber case at the time. Just never individual hilt pics. It's entirely possible there just wasn't time to document.

[vivid vessel]

Matches my experience of reviewing stuff in the long ago.

[orchid ice]

Also probably the case, lighting inside theaters also isnt always the best either and when you've got a bunch people all trying to see the same stuff makes it hard to get a decent picture of anything

[shell aurora]

Alright, I'll stop asking questions

[wet stag]

Star Wars is cool

[shell aurora]

people spout BS on the internet all the time, I didn't think it was too much to ask to find out what the source of what you were saying was. Admittedly I could have worded it better and that's on me. But that's why I questioned you

[orchid ice]

Wonder if they werent allowing actual cameras in

[late vault]

I dig this but we all know Plageus would disrespectfully mop the floor w Qimir LMFAOO The Qimir + Mae vs. Plagueus duel just feels like Palpy vs maul + savage on Mandalore😭Palpy smacked tf outta them then went to an opera like nothin happened. I randomly think about this and just die laughing

[vague bloom]

No one said you should stop asking questions.

[frank violet]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but you mostly don't come across as asking for information. The way you word your questions, it looks like you are belligerently demanding that people defend their positions for you. It isn't a conversation style that leads to calm, productive, friendly discussion.

[thick heron]

I just realised, when Qimir got caught in the chemist shop, he played naive by begging them not to wipe his mind…and then he was capable of that in this episode

[frank violet]

It comes across like "I think you are lying, but I am going to give you this chance to prove to me that you are not."

[orchid ice]

I had an early screening for a Mar... certain superhero franchise movie, like super early screening and they made up put our phones into sealed up black baggies and sign nda's

Although now that the movie is out guess I can actually talk about it

Though this was the paid fan event thing they hosted so not the same situation lol

[vivid vessel]

Was it one of the Sony ones by any chance? I didn't have to do that for the first Avengers movie but I did for The Amazing Spider-Man 2.

[orchid ice]

Eternals, like... so early of a screening there were story board drawings in place of scenes early lol

[vivid vessel]

Seeing that Avengers movie a full month before heading to Florida for Star Wars weekends let me have so much fun. It wasn't out in the USA until the second week of my trip, and I'd seen it twice by then.

Ooooof.

I saw Avengers so early that the schwarma scene hadn't been filmed, but it was out in Ireland two weeks later and had it.

[frank violet]

I saw half of Aladdin a year before it came out. That was suspenseful.

[vivid vessel]

I was getting up to leave all "welp, movie's over. No post-credits scene" and then found out I was wrong.

[orchid ice]

Oh yeah this was like, CGI wasn't finished and some scenes werent even in the movie or had changed by the time it came out levels

I didn't know what the deviants actually looked like until the movie came out levels of early

[vivid vessel]

That's kind of awesome.

[thick heron]

Please tell me they had people in mo-cap suits running around instead lol

[vivid vessel]

We have derailed radically though, so we should move on.

[orchid ice]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-right-mayor-john-conley-the-twilight-zone-a-small-town-i-forgot-gif-21893349

https://tenor.com/view/acolyte-jecki-sith-qimir-lightsaber-gif-4501917252653057926

Obiani what?

[orchid ice]

Just blobs of 3d models for most

[vivid vessel]

We really had a high body count with this series. Not sure who we're supposed to be identifying with anymore. Mae? Pip?

[thick heron]

https://tenor.com/view/the-acolyte-yord-fandar-charlie-barnett-star-wars-khofar-gif-14136229396850883402

For the Yorde

[orchid ice]

https://tenor.com/view/the-acolyte-sith-qimir-manny-jacinto-star-wars-gif-9667321519064370447

[orchid ice]

I forget a lot of things all the time so... Mae it is I guess

[thick heron]

Well they sent 8 Jedi to Khofar (including Jecki, Yord and Sol), and one lived (temporarily). 2 Jedi had died before that, Kelnacca died too, so by the time Sol headed back to Brendok there were 10 dead Jedi already

[orchid ice]

https://tenor.com/view/clue-clue-the-movie-tim-curry-tmi-too-much-information-gif-18119479

[thick heron]

11 total from what I remember. Indara, Torbin, Kelnacca, Sol, Yord, Jecki, Master Holden, and 4 other unnamed Jedi

[thick heron]

The four unnamed are (in my mind) Shaun of the Jedi (cause he looks like Simon Pegg lol), The Clones (the two guys who look exactly alike) and Not-Plo, the Kel’dor who apparently wasn’t Plo Koon

[midnight hill]

I’m wondering if Vernestra already had one of her hyperspace visions, and that it’s part of why she’s acting like that and talking about the whole thing with Master Yoda only. 🤔

I’m also pretty sure she is the liaison between the senate and the Jedi, which was Elzar’s job previously and before him Stellan’s (Vern’s master).

[nimble plover]

I mean, yes, I agree, but that may be the point lol Like Maul, these two are probably in way over their heads and are bound for a rude awakening.

[thick heron]

That’s what I really really really want to see. Palpatine spanking Maul and Savage without breaking a sweat was so great

Live action version of that in Plagueis going off on Qimir and Osha would be epic

I also still wonder if this is before or after Plagueis kills Tenebrous

[vivid vessel]

Are we 100% sure that was Plagueis?

[small night]

Body count... I like "corpse count."

[thick heron]

Credits didn’t have any confirmation but I think the show runners have said it was him

[vivid vessel]

Interesting move.

[nimble plover]

Definitely a Munn, and not a Bith, add to that the cortosis on the planet, it almost has to be Plagueis.

[thick heron]

It’s still way too early for Palpatine to even be alive

It could be that Plagueis is the one looking for an acolyte to help take down Tenebrous

[nimble plover]

Do we know who it was that Vernestra was talking to on comms before Mog showed up?

[thick heron]

That’s a good question, I don’t think we know

[dense charm]

I can now independently confirm that we saw Darth Plagueis based on the fact that I'm pretty sure it was him probably

Also I called it

"Darth Plagueis... was a Dark Lord of the Sith so powerful and so wise, he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians... to create... life."

I feel like this is significant in regards to Mae and Osha's origin

[orchid ice]

Buddy and I were just talking about stuff

Something that I'm not sure many have thought about, but for the whole "the twins now make anakin unimportant" thing people still aren't getting it.

They might've been born of the force but on a planet with a force convergence, during most likely very special circumstances by an entire group of witches.

Basically a lot of very special circumstances and steps to happen, and since they really should've been one person it didnt even go the way it was supposed to.

Far as we know currently Anakin was created without all of that

[dense charm]

Maybe the twins were the first attempt

[orchid ice]

On the otherside of the coin he mightve been created by the force itself to balance the force

which would make him still more important and unique than the twins

[dense charm]

I think Plagueis made Anakin and that was implied by Palpatine telling him the story

[thick heron]

It may be legends now but I believe Anakin wasn’t directly what Plagueis was trying to do, him and Palpatine were doing some dark stuff and the force said “nah bro” and made Anakin

[orchid ice]

thought this was the case

[vivid vessel]

Yeah there's the Darth Plagueis novel and the visions in the Darth Vader comic and they don't match up what with being different continuities. Also you can't really trust what the force tells Vader...

It was kind of implied that Anakin was an accident with them failing to create life right in front of them, so perhaps Plagueis misunderstood why the coven was on Brendok to begin with?

[orchid ice]

Very possible

[thick heron]

Yeah I was thinking they succeeded, just not how they thought, and not noticeable to them

The force basically took their work and made a slight twist

Similar to the twins, but still unique/special

[nimble plover]

The twins were created by Aniseya using the additional power of the vergence located on Brendok. Anakin Skywalker was a vergence himself. Very different things. Anakin would wipe the floor with both twins, probably without needing to draw his weapon.

[vivid vessel]

We've seen him on a rampage. We know how quick it'd be.

[orchid ice]

This was the thoughts winthin my head that I couldn't put into words correctly

[bright osprey]

I'm going to make my own version of that theory. I think YODA will fight Qimir, and Vern will fight Osha. We've seen what Qimir can do. I think he's Yoda-level at this point. Vern may not cut it against him. Furthermore, whether the show is meant to make us root for the Sith or not (I think it is), Osha and Qimir are 99% probably going to die at thr end of the series.

[analog gyro]

Wow that was a great finale!!
Can’t wait for Season 2 🤠🔥
Leslie did such a great job handling the true essence of Darth Plagueis the Wise and Yoda

Rip Sol tho
Nooooo I guess he had it coming….

[thick heron]

I especially liked how Vern burned his body so there couldn’t be an autopsy

No saber wound but signs of a fight, there wouldn’t have been any evidence of poison, and can’t force choke yourself to death. But hey if his body is gone then Vern can make up any story she likes

[bright osprey]

I was under the impression that until the clone wars began burning deceased Jedi wad standard procedure. They did it with Qui-Gon. I also assumed that Luke burned Darth Vader as sort of an honorary thing. He wasn't a Jedi when he died, but Luke did turn his heart, and he was a Jedi at one point.

[thick heron]

Yeah, I mean she did do the whole funeral pyre thing, but I think she knew if she brought back his body for a funeral they’d question her saying he took his own life

[orchid ice]

💯

[thick heron]

This way she honors the Jedi way and covers her ass

[small night]

I've been wondering how much of Qimir's feelings for Osha originate from him needing someone to free him from big daddy P.

[orchid ice]

That's my same line of thinking

[thick heron]

I still think he might end up getting away and founding the knights of ren, I don’t think they played that theme as a random choice

[orchid ice]

Could've been used to help emphasize a parallel story line

[forest knoll]

I think it was confirmed to be done on purpose

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/acolyte-showrunner-says-kylo-ren-204940527.html

[thick heron]

Yeah I think it’s a story meant to tie together the prequels and sequels. Not directly, but we see the little things that become big things later

[small night]

Dyad dyad dyad!

pounds table

silverware jingles as it makes small jumps in the air

Sorry. Sorry. I'll put my Reylo away.

She gets out sometimes. Heh.

[nimble plover]

The only innocent souls in this series have been Kelnacca, Jecki, and Yord. Well, and all those poor fools that Qimir slaughtered. And Tasi Lowa whose biggest sin is looking so fabulous that she's too expensive for the camera.

[frank violet]

She presumably had scenes that were cut, right?

Unfilmed, that is.

But scripted.

[late vault]

Yeah it seemed that Brendok itself may have the ability to amplify force capabilities in others. Similar to Planet X!

[late vault]

It does make me wonder the original intent of their usage of sith alchemy. Was the creation of life the sole intent? or perhaps an unexpected byproduct? Are there defined rules to sith alchemy, with the intent of preventing malicious beings from flying too close to the sun? Is Anakin the force's response to this? Very interesting

[wet stag]

Showrunner confirmed it

https://www.indiewire.com/features/interviews/the-acolyte-finale-darth-plagueis-reveal-confirmed-leslye-headland-1235026659/

[thick heron]

Yeah I can’t remember what it was they were trying to do, I doubt create a baby cause I can’t see Plagueis or a Sith changing diapers lol

[brave topaz]

If I recall correctly Plagueis and Palpatine were doing Sith rituals to make the force bend to their will/notice them (like playground bully tactics) and the force flared up then suddenly went quiet—like it had reacted to them in some way, but they weren’t sure how.
They only understood what had happened ten years later when they realized the timeline of Anakin’s existence matched up to their shenanigans.
Plagueis did have personal experiments he worked on involving using the midichlorians to create life, but he worked on those in a creepy lab.
Neither Plagueis or Palpatine were trying to use the force to impregnate a random slave woman on Tatooine.

[midnight hill]

And that was their downfall!
Babies need a mom belly to grow. 😄

SEASON 2, SEASON 2, SEASON 2

I actually need at least 2 more seasons of Acolyte.

[jade cape]

the eclipse imagery never came back up. maybe in the most figurative of terms as the darkness taking over the light, but actual eclipse never showed up again after the ascension ritual.

[midnight hill]

In the meantime, into THR books and comics I go.

[midnight hill]

We need more information on the witches. I want a season of only that.

If they can’t do a season of that only, pair it with Vern/Qimir’s past.

The new Young Jedi Adventures trailer has a new world that my husband says that looks a lot like Brendok. I’m still unsure, because they say, explore new worlds. ||https://youtu.be/YZ9YtzRVgV4?feature=shared||

[nimble plover]

Metaphorically, we saw the eclipse pass when Osha became the darker of the sisters.

[thick heron]

Well technically Brendok is new

[midnight hill]

And it will be new to YJA! 🤔

[thick heron]

Kinda brutal to take younglings there lol, like hey, let’s take a field trip to the world where a bunch of witches were slaughtered and a Jedi went rogue!

[midnight hill]

They are already on outer rim planets already and it’s at least 100 years before Acolyte.

Not sure how long the witches have been there

[thick heron]

Ahh it’s set before acolyte eh, so take them to see the ruins of starlight!

[midnight hill]

Maybe that’s how they know the planet was inhabited

[midnight hill]

Uffff! That’s a bit dark for that series. I cried ||when they went to Starlight’s inauguration ceremony. || spoiler for YJA

[brave topaz]

It hasn’t done the thing yet.
The YGA younglings visited in season 1 and ||it was still intact||.
So presumably ||Brendok and its surrounding planetary bodies are still pre-Starlight disaster too.||
Maybe it will happen in YJA season 2, but I can’t say for sure.

[jade cape]

Right, that's what I mean. Figuratively, but not literally since ep3

[midnight hill]

We’ll be dissecting S2 to see when it is set up. 😂

[nimble plover]

https://x.com/Rachael1918/status/1813671828042530830

Rachael "Disturbing and Illegal" (@Rachael1918) on X

There's a 100 percent sincere post on Reddit from a guy who was puzzled over why Sol was obsessed with finding "virgins in the Force" in #TheAcolyte. And that's the exact sort of comedy gold I come to the internet for.

Twitter · Jul 17, 2024, 8:27 PM

I think someone could've benefited from turning on subtitles

[midnight hill]

😂

[brave topaz]

Gotta clean out your ears to hear better.

https://tenor.com/view/airhead-ears-clean-gif-16931365

[limpid ridge]

Lmao

[wheat bramble]

“Force Virgins from Outer Space”?

Look for it soon late nights on Cinemax and behind the curtain at that one video rental store still hanging on. 😳

[pulsar forum]

YJA is post-hyperspace disaster unless season 2 goes back in time, so Brendok would be lifeless

So it's probably not Brendok

[wheat bramble]

(Although… one of THOSE studios probably already made it… just not going to pollute my search history to find out..)

[midnight hill]

That’s true! I’m sure they are not going back. Now I can tell Rey is a no go on Brendok. 😂

[nimble wyvern]

So, was it ever explained if the vergence power was what created the twins, or if the power from the twins creation is what caused the vergence?

[midnight hill]

@pulsar forum I also wish Burry makes an appearance

[pulsar forum]

Starlight Beacon crashed on Eiram. What we see on Brendok is probably bits of the Legacy Run

[frank violet]

The only time we turned on closed captions was when possessed Kelnacca showed up and Sol appeared to say "Shi--!", but they didn't caption that moment at all.

[pulsar forum]

This would be ideal

[midnight hill]

It is only logical!

[pulsar forum]

I always use subtitles now

[frank violet]

Info from showrunner suggests the vergence was on the planet already and facilitated the creation of the twins, I believe.

[midnight hill]

I always do subtitles, because you know, English is not my native language.

But I do them in English, so caption, I don’t trust translations. 😂

[jade cape]

English is my native language but I still want subtitles. Lol I seem to have processing problems that are worsening with age and reading helps.

[thick heron]

I use them cause of my hearing, but I’ve also noticed there tend to be quasi-spoilers in the subtitles like naming characters when their identity might have been ambiguous

And I use them in zoom meetings to see the hilarious typos

Anything with auto-generated subtitles, like YouTube. Especially if the speaker has an accent, you get some really funny subtitles

[midnight hill]

You’ll have a blast hearing me trying to talk to Siri. 🤣

[small night]

You're perfect; Siri's a birch.

Alexa too.

I have to get... others to tell her what I want all the time.

[modern gazelle]

Oh man you should see my work phones transcription of voicemails. I once got "I'm going to kill them all." I forget what they actually said, but it wasn't that

[nimble plover]

It was "I'm going to kill the mall" lol

[vague bloom]

Star Wars Fans: WE WANT PLAGUEIS! WE WANT PLAGUEIS!

They Get Plagueis

Star Wars Fans: BOOOOOO WHY IS PLAGUEIS IN THIS SHOW?!!!?!?!

Its all just a joke at this point....

[vivid vessel]

I kind of wish they didn't feel the need to explain everything outside the show itself, but I guess that does confirm it.

[nimble wyvern]

It's the Ricky Nelson Garden Party effect

[jade cape]

If you want it to be ambiguous, let it be ambiguous. If you want a concrete answer, make it shown. I do think having a weekly interview where they have to confirm things is a little frustrating.

[modern gazelle]

Well done, that was a deep cut

[frank violet]

Somebody ask her about Bazil, please

[brave topaz]

He’s fine.
He’s going to die of old age.

…I mean technically that’s not fine but it’s as fine as anyone ever gets.

[frank violet]

Not, like, how he's doing in general.

Why he did that thing.

[brave topaz]

Ah, gotcha.

A definitive explanation of why he did what he did when he did it.

A fair question.

[nimble plover]

Rewatching that bit, maybe he didn't want Sol to shoot her down? I dunno grasping at straws lol

[nimble plover]

https://tenor.com/view/eeyup-mlp-my-little-pony-gif-5373831

[gusty bear]

"This man is effing crazy and is going to kill us, chasing after this weird girl that doesn't smell right "

that's my theory, but that's if Bazil isn't a Sith spy

[austere tiger]

I thought we agreed he was trying to save Pip, everyone's best friend.

[gusty bear]

cause that's my other theory 😂

Bazil secretly works for Plagueis

[vivid vessel]

Very much that. Just let us sit with the mystery.

[wet stag]

I agree… I don’t think it needed confirmation like that. Most of us will assume it’s him, we’ll have fun debates and it’ll make for a great payoff when we get the actual confirmation on screen.

[gusty bear]

it's JKR all over again 😭

imagine if she had done the same with each book release

[vivid vessel]

Yeah it does feel a little bit like they wanted to be acknowledge for how clever they were in setting up stuff by immediately giving us the payoff.

[jade cape]

I don't/didn't follow any HP so I don't know how that went. it hit at the wrong time for me so I never got into it.

[wet stag]

Exactly and in doing so cheapened it

[gusty bear]

it's mostly about how she came out years after the seventh book with a "Of course Dumbledore is gay."

then why not make it clear? you're pandering cause your reputation is in trouble.

[gusty bear]

they did great with hinting at Qimir and his connection to Vern, but def fell through there.

[vivid vessel]

It got really funny in the way that Star Wars likes to over-explain everything but it was one author doing it all in response to letters sent to her by children, and also being batshit crazy.

Like apparently Hogwarts didn't even have a bathroom for a while, wizards would just go wherever and magic it away.

[wet stag]

To be fair that was announced long before her reputation was in trouble in fact I believe it was just after book 7 released at the height of her and the books popularity as everyone was begging for more. Beyond that I do agree with what you’ve said. I personally think she should have left it to be addressed more directly in a future work rather than outside of the universe.

The same applies to plaguis in my mind. Leave it for an onscreen reveal. The tease was enough to keep the fans engaged waiting for more

[gusty bear]

i think you're right, but i was younger then so i'm remembering the hoopla when Fantastic Beasts was about to come out.

[wet stag]

Either way end result is the same in my book. No need to reveal stuff like that just to be “clever”. Let the fan’s imaginations run wild and give an in universe payoff

[gusty bear]

i don't follow the fandom, but does GRRM do that with his books?

i'm just trying to think if this will become a norm

[wet stag]

I only watch the shows personally. Never liked the books

[nimble mortar]

Like how the Versailles palace was built without any kind of plumbing or sanitation so everyone just went in the stairwells for a while

[nimble wyvern]

IDK. I like the flipside of it. Any casual fans who don't know Plagueis are googling "Who was the creepy guy in the cave in Acolyte" and get to discover who he is on their own without who he is being "told" to them. The die-hard fans get to do what they want with that, the casual fans (hopefully) take a deep dive into figuring out who the creepy cave smeagol is

We knew who it was as soon as he was on-screen. I would venture to say the majority of people watching the show, didn't

[nimble mortar]

I'm calling him Darth Smeagol now

[nimble wyvern]

The difference being the lore behind Plagueis is established throughout numerous books, comics, legends, etc... and Harry Potter/Game of Thrones all came (at one point) from a single source

[vivid vessel]

It was well before that. The character of Luna Lovegood was created based on a fan's letter. That fan then went on to play the character in the movies.

[vivid vessel]

That's a bit of a myth. They didn't have plumbing so everyone used chamberpots.

[modern gazelle]

Confirmed basil is Palpatine

[nimble mortar]

Palpateeny

Palpatiney

[thick heron]

Baziltine

That’s the dark magic he and Plagueis performed that created Anakin, they transferred Basil’s mind to Palpatine’s body

[small night]

https://fixupx.com/cprobinson81/status/1813974765578916325?t=Xo6ZGfgiizrdcVGBmS4E-g&s=19

[nimble plover]

Exactly that vibe

[small night]

I love my mischief boys.

[nimble wyvern]

I love how quickly Qimir shoved his helmet on as soon as he senses her.

[jade cape]

"You!"
shit shit shit shit helmet on

[nimble wyvern]

Yeah that scene and the following one with them together raised some questions for me. We know that Qimir doesn't want to be known, yet when he's alone in the courtyard with her, doesn't attack her. Shoving the helmet on almost feels like fear, which is a scary thing, as a viewer, for Qimir to feel about anything

Like Vernestra is Qimir's cortosis

[small night]

He is a sweet boy!

[bright osprey]

I'd just like to point out that Plagueis appearing in The Acolyte was only possible due to another age change, similar to Ki-Adi Mundi. If they kept his EU age, he would be a small child at the time the series takes place.

If people made such a big deal about KAM, why is Plagueis okay?

[jade cape]

EU isn't canon. so it doesn't matter.

[bright osprey]

The same applies to KAM, to be fair.

[jade cape]

EU isn't canon and it didn't matter for KAM either.

[bright osprey]

That's my point. People made such a big deal about it, and I still don't understand why.

[jade cape]

because they were latching on to anything just to be negative

[nimble wyvern]

The story changes. That's okay. I don't understand that backlash either.

[orchid ice]

This.

Only difference I could see between Ki-Adi and Plagueis is that Ki for a long time had a mostly set in stone age, a legends age but still an age none the less. Plageious never had an age mentioned, at all, just a single line saying he was at least over 100yo. People were willing to assume Plagueis lied or was vague enough about his age that he could've been well over 200 or 300yo

Again though, it was all legends stuff and most of the complaints come from people who refuse to accept that legends is legends.

I'd also chalk it up to the fact people actually wanted Plagueis to appear anywhere in the canon live action.

[vivid vessel]

They don't care about any of it. They just want to hurt people.

[nimble plover]

If he was "well over 100” when he was training Palpy, where does the notion of Plagueis being a boy 100 years before the Empire come from?

[orchid ice]

Honestly couldn't even tell ya other than people just assuming well over 100 only means he was like 150 or something. That's what I've gotten from the nitpickers at least, swt was the main one I heard yelling about "he's only 15!!!" And that's just been regurgitated over and over.

Some of plagueis's age could also be guessed based off when Tenebrous was around but I don't even know that he has set ages in the EU timeline

[jade cape]

Yoda was already 800 at the time of his cameo, dunno why people are so hard up on human lifespans for alien creatures.

[wheat bramble]

I am the ancient. I am the land. My… oops… wrong fantasy world.. nvmd… 😳

[frank violet]

800, but only 16 times Grogu's age.

That species ages weird.

[bright osprey]

Yeah. There was that whole scene in The Mandalorian premiere where IG-11 had to explain this concept to Din Djarin. Does nobody remember that??? ☹️

[bright osprey]

I agree with this as well, I was expecting Yoda's hair to at least a little less white in a High Republic appearance.

[frank violet]

Can't look any younger than in Young Jedi Adventures, and that's like another century earlier.

It's just a species that's a preverbal toddler at 50, capable of teaching other Jedi at 100, and basically old from 600 on.

[orchid ice]

Think it's similar to the clone aging thing, they age up fast(by their species standard) then hit adult age and it levels out to be more "normal"

[frank violet]

I don't think that's right. All the Rebels-and-later clones are still double-aged.

Rex is an old man at like 30-35.

[orchid ice]

true

[frank violet]

Also, I just realized the climactic moment of The Mandalorian and Grogu is absolutely going to be Grogu's first word.

[jade cape]

"Daddy"

[frank violet]

Some variation thereof, definitely.

And we all cry.

[brave topaz]

When Grogu graduates to sentences it should be “I can bring you in warm or I can bring you in cold.”

[jade cape]

Or it'll be "this is the way" in the cutest baby voice

[nimble plover]

It's also hinted that Plagueis prolonged his own life. Up until Palpatine got tired of him.

[thick heron]

Yeah I always assumed Plagueis’ wanting the power to “save the people he loved from death” that the people he loved was…himself

[vivid vessel]

Nah, that was Sheev just hinting that Anakin could use the power that way if he so chose, not stating that Plagueis had people he loved. It's about selling the idea of falling to Anakin and hinting at knowing stuff he shouldn't. It also doesn't say that Plagueis didn't have people he loved though, or that he didn't only love himself. It's really more about how it will be received than what the actual truth is.

[thick heron]

Oh yeah, I just meant that Palpatine was definitely twisting the truth to make it sound more appealing to Anakin who actually did have someone he loved who he wanted to save

[gusty bear]

"The way, this is."

[nimble plover]

Actually, I think that's why Qimir was able to use Force healing and Palps couldn't. I think Plagueis taught Palpatine the theory, but Palpatine kept failing on the execution of said theory.

[thick heron]

Yeah, Palpatine also left out that “everything” in “taught his pupil everything before his pupil killed him” in the story about Plagueis didn’t actually include the power being used to tempt him lol

“Taught me everything except that one power you’d kill younglings for” isn’t quite as convincing

But hey, teamwork!

[vivid vessel]

He also doesn't actually admit to being that apprentice there. Just that he's part of that lineage somewhere down the line.

[thick heron]

Very true, he does make it sound like an old story, not like, “I made this up cause I murdered him ~10-16 years ago”

[brave topaz]

In the Plagueis novel, ||Plagueis does describe loving something.
It’s the lab test animals he uses to do force experiments.
That’s what he loves. His midichlorian science projects.||
Which is creepy, but tracks. 😬

[thick heron]

Ah so he was like (possible Bad Batch spoiler) || Hemlock. And that’s maybe why Palps liked him||

[vivid vessel]

Yeah, very odd when you read the novel that came after and you realise that Sheev is talking about what he got upto while Anakin was learning to fly.

[thick heron]

Yep, I think it was that Plagueis novel so not sure if it’s canon but Palpatine killed him like the night he became Supreme Chancellor, so before the end of the events of TPM

[vivid vessel]

It's not canon anymore, but yeah, it's right there during the movie.

[thick heron]

But yeah he couldn’t start off the story with “so yeah remember when you were 8…”

[nimble plover]

No, but I mean...

https://tenor.com/view/ironic-star-wars-chode-gif-5274592

He looks far too pleased with himself

[vivid vessel]

He really does.

[jade cape]

Even better!

[frank violet]

It's a weird claim he makes, too. "He could even keep the ones he loved from dying" isn't the same as "he could return people from death". It's incredibly vague. Hospitals keep people from dying. Medicine keeps people from dying. I don't know how Anakin got "No matter what you think Padme is going to die of, this will definitely work" from it.

[flint creek]

I got SOL too and was sooo mad about it!!!

[nimble plover]

In fairness, a medical droid somehow mistook the symptoms of brain asphyxiation for "losing the will to live." Maybe Anakin was right not to trust the healthcare system lol

[frank violet]

Point.

[midnight hill]

It doesn’t surprise me! 😄❤️❤️❤️

[flint creek]

https://tenor.com/view/i-am-mary-poppins-guardians-of-the-galaxy-yondu-gif-15498979

OMG my ears were screaming at that sound.

MOAR WITCHES.

[gusty bear]

#MomFriend. this is too accurate.

but no, people don't look to me for guidance because i can see all angles. if anything, people usually dislike it because i'm not completely agreeing with them. 😂

"...well technically..."

[flint creek]

I’ve been reading fast for half an hour and I’m still 2 days ago. 😱

[midnight hill]

Thank the maker the show was so disliked. 🤣 (jic sarcasm)

[flint creek]

I totally read this as you saying Grim was also fictional. 🤣

[bright osprey]

Really??? I've always taken the medical droid's diagnosis as fact. They were so madly in love that I assumed she actually did lose the will to live when she realized what had happened to Anakin.

[nimble plover]

That's what the narrative tells us, but I dunno, that doesn't sit right with me.

[frank violet]

I think there was a no-longer-canon book that said "actually, it was a broken neck bone."

[nimble wyvern]

The mind plays an essential role in healing

[bright osprey]

I know this is a bit off topic for this channel, but I just thought I'd share because we're talking about Padmé's death. Have any of ever checked out the YouTube channel called Star Wars Audio Comics? They create videos where there are comic panels from both canon and non-canon Star Wars comics on-screen while trained voice actors try to mimic the voices of the characters in the comics. They also add score from various Star Wars projects (John Williams, Kevin Kiner, etc.) One of my favorite scenes they've done is when Darth Vader found out that Padmé had successfully given birth before she died. (Darth Vader #6)

[jade cape]

#star-wars-universe is a good place for that discussion

[bright osprey]

Got it. Thanks! I'll repost it there.

[flint creek]

It’s fair. I totally heard “virgins” at least once but did indeed have captions on. 🤣

[bright osprey]

Do you mind me asking what your native language is? Based on the two photos I've seen of you, I'm guessing you're from the Middle East?

[midnight hill]

I don’t mind. I’m puertorrican, but we are so mixed that I don’t blame you guessing Middle East. Most of my heritage is Spain, France and Africa.

[midnight hill]

So Spanish

[bright osprey]

Something that threw me off when making my guess is that my high school Spanish teacher used to say all the time is that we had a harder time learning Spanish than many Spanish-speaking children did learning English. She said that it's custom in most Spanish-speaking countries to teach the children English in early elementary school. TBH, I had considered Latin America in my guess, but I ruled it out because of what she said.

I assumed that if you were from a country like that you would know English well enough not to need any subtitles because you learned it so early in your life. When did you start learning it?

[midnight hill]

Puerto Rico being part of the US is another set of rules. Very different from other countries. Sadly, Public schools in PR are terrible. So most of the middle low class spends their hard earned money in private schools. That’s the only way to learn decent English in PR. Even so, the English taught in private schools isn’t great either. It has improved over the years, but when I was in school back in the 80s, even my teacher gave English class in Spanish. So I ended up learning it from watching cable tv. 😂

[bright osprey]

My mom did half of her bachelor's degree in Germany as a transfer student even though she didn't know the first thing about the German language, customs, etc. when she arrived. She caught on by watching Sesame Street! Not only is Sesame Street dubbed into over 100 languages around the world, they also reuse segments for years after they first air in subsequent episodes. My mom exploited that. She watched so much Sesame Street as a kid because she loved the Muppets. She memorized the dialogue in many of the reused segments. So, when she arrived in Germany, she started to watch it again. And she knew exactly what they were saying because she had already seen it in English!

[midnight hill]

Thanks to tv, that’s how many learned

Back to Acolyte. I so want for them to continue OSHA/Qimir’s relationship. https://www.instagram.com/p/C9nDWP8pcSs/?igsh=NTNxNXZtODNwd2Iz

starwars

I will train with you.

All episodes of #TheAcolyte, a Star Wars Original series, now streaming on @DisneyPlus.

📸: @atwes

Likes

29656

Instagram

[orchid ice]

Loved it, little things like that make the serotonin levels rise

[frank violet]

He's implicitly older than Sol, her father figure!

[midnight hill]

I’m also going to miss their posters. Right @brave topaz ?!

[bright osprey]

I think my Discord app is glitching. There's supposed to be a picture here, right? I can't see it.

[frank violet]

No picture, just a text preview of the link.

[midnight hill]

New poster photo on Acolyte socials

[frank violet]

I hope that's actually what the Stranger wears most days.

[modern gazelle]

I didn't realize Darth Smiley was on the Good Place

[orchid ice]

loved him in that but yeah he bulked a ton

[midnight hill]

@jade cape Has been talking about it. She loves the Good Place.

[nimble wyvern]

He saw potential in Mae for throwing things on fire.

[bright osprey]

I just remembered a question I wanted to ask. I'm not an expert on special effects and I have no idea how this is possible. How did they get Mae to hug Osha? That's essentially Amandla Stenberg hugging herself.

[nimble wyvern]

You can see the face of her stunt double in a few of those scenes, but otherwise it's CGI planting her real face over the double for the 360 spin close-up

They did something similar in Mando S2 finale with ||Luke's face over the double-actor's face||

[bright osprey]

Is it something similar when a real actor has to interact with a object that isn't real? They pick up -- for the sake of conversation -- an orange, and CGI turns it into a thermal detonator? I realize that a thermal detonator can be made into a prop. That's just what I could think of.

[nimble wyvern]

It's very likely they used her double as the person she was hugging, then deepfaked the face on in post

[orchid ice]

Not really anymore, facial tracking and being able to put another face over is pretty crazy now, so like everyone said its just her body double with a digital face

[late vault]

Somewhat yeah. In terms of cloning, it's usually a blend of having a body double with similar physical attributes to the actor and cleaver camera angles

[nimble wyvern]

||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrHXA2cSpNU|| from the Mando s2 finale, they do a side-by-side.

[bright osprey]

??? I don't understand.

[orchid ice]

Craziest part is they honestly didnt even need to do the digital work since he looked the part already lol

I'm still team Sebastian Stan to play young Luke

[nimble wyvern]

He really, really did.

[orchid ice]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMB2sLwz0Do another good example of how they do it now

[late vault]

It used to be a ton of something called rotoscoping. Now and days, most productions utilize a technique called motion capture

[bright osprey]

Yeah. There are some VERY SLIGHT differences. A slightly longer face, darker eyes. Possibly differently shaped nose, but hard to tell with the lighting.

[nimble wyvern]

There's a lot of computer AI involved. They scrub footage of the actor's faces for digital media, expressions, etc, and then the same AI program digitally imposes that face on top of the selected area that they're trying to change.

If you want your mind blown, check this one out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OJnkJqkyio

[gusty bear]

i would've agreed like 5-10 years ago, but i think his time for that past. he looks less like Mark the older he gets. Covenant era Sebastian, definitely.

[late vault]

You've probably seen a ton of bts footage of actors (casted to play aliens, actors who were de-aged, etc) with reflective markers all over their faces. I remember Lupita Nyong'o joking about accidentally eating some of those reflective markers

Those reflective markers are linked to computer softwares that aid in tracking movements

[bright osprey]

I'll watch it, but I'm hesitant to trust that it's as you say, a good example. Leia did not hit the mark in Rogue One. That's why they opted to use Billie Lourd unaltered rather than use CGI when they did the flashback to Leia's saber training in The Rise Of Skywalker.

[nimble wyvern]

Yeah, the technology is getting better every year

[orchid ice]

This was the first time they had even used the tech, like ILM developed it during the production of rogue one

[late vault]

Funny enough, Rogue one's deaging of Tarkin & Leia made large strides in the field of mo-cap

[orchid ice]

they had to learn to take things such as lighting in the new ones and lighting in the old ones into consideration and etc

[late vault]

I could be wrong, but I think a similar technique was used for Paul Walker's character in the fast in furious movies. They used a ton of old footage and did some mocap of his brothers

[orchid ice]

Yup

[bright osprey]

Well, the result was disliked enough to convince them to use Carrie Fisher's daughter completely unaltered a whole 3 years later.

[orchid ice]

It was disliked by all the same people that disliked star wars in general around that time

[late vault]

For the sequels? We only saw Younger Leia's face for like 3 seconds of the film

[bright osprey]

I didn't like it, and I generally love anything put out in the franchise.

[nimble wyvern]

When she takes off her helmet to tell Luke her training is over, and someone else will take up her saber later.

[late vault]

This this this. I thought it looked marvelous!

[late vault]

She was talkin bout me fr🤭I got her hilt on the wall rn

[bright osprey]

Yes. That was Billie Lourd, Carrie Fisher's daughter. No CGI used.

[orchid ice]

in rise of skywalker?

[bright osprey]

Yup.

[orchid ice]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0i5YLgcUb8

[bright osprey]

That's the scene.

[orchid ice]

this scene... where they used cgi for leia

[bright osprey]

I've heard from multiple articles and podcasts that it was Billie Lourd without CGI. I could be wrong, but I have seen it multiple places.

[orchid ice]

She was in the movie later has Lieutenant Connix, where she was just herself, but for the flashback scene was just the body double

[late vault]

Somebody get Billie Lourd on the phone real quick lets ask her

[orchid ice]

Tubach, the visual effects supervisor confirmed it was a digital face over Billie for the flashback scene

was just watching it lol

[late vault]

Didn't Billie do the stand-in mocap for leia in rogue one too?

[bright osprey]

You know, celebrities often pay people just to decide what is best for them to tell the public and what isn't, and often those people tell the celebrities to lie. I realize you were joking, but you should NEVER ask a celebrity about something like that unless you cannot find the answer anywhere else. That's just my opinion, anyway.

[orchid ice]

Ingvild Deila

[jade cape]

It's such a good show!

[late vault]

Aside from Star Wars, ILM might be Lucas' greatest gift to the world. I had no idea the amount of films/shows they've had their hand in. That's not even counting the subsidiary of ILM that grew into...wait for it...pixar. Insane

[orchid ice]

You better not have another cactus

[midnight hill]

I really need to watch it

[orchid ice]

100%. Most modern day digital tech for movies and TV has its roots in ILM

[jade cape]

Also that's a very old trick. The Parent Trap was filmed in the 60s, before CGI, and it's doubles and trick camera shots.

[late vault]

My brother in the force, it was a joke😭It'd make sense to ask her because...that's her in the shot

[nimble plover]

ILM touched so many of my favorite movies

[bright osprey]

That reminds me. How does OLM (Oriental Light & Magic) get away with their name? They so obviously based it on ILM, and nobody complains about it? Why?

[late vault]

I'm not too sure, but I think it's because OLM is a film/animation studio, and ILM is a motion picture visual effects company

[bright osprey]

Could it have something to do with international trademark barriers? ILM is American and OLM is Japanese. There could be a issue stemming from that.

[late vault]

It isn't entirely illegal to create a company that was influenced by another. Things get icy when your company makes nearly identical products to the company you were influenced by

To be fair: I work in medicine. I have zero idea about copyright laws

[bright osprey]

I realize that. But when a company trademarks their name, I believe they have the right to argue against another company having a very similar name.

It's not illegal unless the names are identical, but I believe it can go to court depending on their similarity.

[late vault]

Also true but there's divisions of companies dedicated to determining if it's even worth shaking the table over something so trivial. In the courts of public appeal, a big-named company using their influence to seemingly bully a smaller company isn't the best PR move

[bright osprey]

Is it really bullying? OLM animates one of the 5 top grossing franchises ever.

[nimble wyvern]

I think it's lost in translation. If we're getting technical about it, "OLM" is actually 株式会社オー・エル・エム

[late vault]

Something similar can be said for third-party saber companies creating inspired-hilts from characters very obviously owned by Disney

[late vault]

Compared to ILM who's catalog is extensively filled with some of the biggest IPs ever

[bright osprey]

True, but even on Japanese releases of their anime, their logo is a mountain being struck by lightning with OLM in capital letters.

[midnight hill]

https://youtube.com/shorts/VGwSYtF0Aes?si=bav_-mX4YhSReBmu

[late vault]

ILM suing OLM just doesn't make sense logistically. Now if OLM started putting out star wars films, that's when the lawsuits start rolling in

And again: ILM's sole MO is visual effects. OLM is a film/animation studio

[bright osprey]

Speaking of, I kept hearing people talking about an unofficial Star Wars anime a while ago. This was prior to the release of Visions. They said it was really good, but I could never find anywhere to watch it. Probably because it violated copyrights.

[frank violet]

https://i0.wp.com/retroarchives.fr/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/10-57.webp?resize=660%2C413&ssl=1

[bright osprey]

What the heck is this?

[frank violet]

From the Time Before Time.

[jade cape]

It may not be worth ILM's time or money. If there's no chance of confusion of product, and it's not denigrating the name, meh.

[modern gazelle]

But was this in the land before time?

[frank violet]

Slightly after.

[dense charm]

Didn't they hire this guy for the scenes in BoBF?

[small night]

Not an answer to your question but as a person with a lifelong crush on Luke, the actor they chose is a thumbs up from me!

Two thumbs up!

[orchid ice]

Different guy, that could've also been Luke on his own as well lol

Also to go back to ILM and OLM that would be like broadcasting channels all going after each other for calling themselves broadcasting channels

[dense charm]

Oh I meant the VFX artist who did the deep fake.

[orchid ice]

Oooh gotcha, not sure I know it's a team of like 3 or 4 iirc though

[brave topaz]

https://x.com/timefor_u/status/1813586736406270227?s=46&t=IItPmx-4WSwYiaHXaAPcqQ

TIME(이타임) (@timefor_u) on X

인스타에서 본 꽃다발을 든 솔 🥺

#이정재 #LEEJUNGJAE

Twitter · Jul 17, 2024, 2:49 PM

Lee Jung Jae did an awesome job.

He deserves all the flowers.

[small night]

Such a wonderful smile! And he really did and does.

For days now I thought someone gave him flowers and bread. But now I realize the bread is his costume.

[brave topaz]

Bread for the Jedi 🍞

[analog gyro]

Season 2 is going to be Amazing 🔥

[small night]

I was like "I'd smile that fulfilled if someone gave me a bouquet with bread too." lol. My eyesight rip.

[toxic sentinel]

If there is one, idk if there's enough fandom to get the project off its feet.

[forest knoll]

Honestly, if it brought in the views they aren’t going to care what the most vocal haters are saying.

[jade cape]

it was more watched than Andor, apparently, which was universally praised and is getting a second season

[brave topaz]

And as tiresome as the toxic side of the fandom has been, their review bombing and complaints about

checks

Fire in space, parthenogenesis, and alien birthdays

Prompted a lot of news articles and clicks.

I have a sneaking suspicion that when Disney crunches the numbers on engagement, they’re not perturbed if some of it is negative so long as the engagement is high.

[midnight hill]

All publicity is good publicity.

[frank violet]

Andor came with a two-season commitment, I believe.

So we can't really judge based on that.

[flint creek]

Leslye Headland has already said she has season 2 outlined so I was expecting it.

[frank violet]

If anyone was tricked, please note the poster/announcement above is fake.

[brave topaz]

I assumed it was fan made, but yes it’s good to say so out loud.

[modern gazelle]

Yeah the showrunner has a vision for season 2, but no commitment from Disney at this time

[frank violet]

And imagine it coming out within 17 months.

[modern gazelle]

Just wondering how me saying it out loud alone in my bedroom helped anyone, but here we are, done and done.

[brave topaz]

Trust me, it helped.

Much like how saying “I am one with the force and the force is with me” privately may not seem to do anything, but of course it does.

[frank violet]

Lotta word-of-god info here, including what the deal was with Bazil, maybe.
https://collider.com/the-acolyte-episode-8-explained-leslye-headland/

[plain cove]

Been away touring Scandinavia so I only just got to watch the last two episodes.

Well no one came out of that well... except maybe kind of Mae... maybe.

A good twist, everyone was the bad guy.

Oh except the witch Mother. She was trying to do the right thing.

[nimble plover]

She didn't though. Turning to spooky mist in the midst of a tense situation was kind of a bad call. Sol immediately attacking was a bad call. So, in the AITA rules, "everybody sucks". Except Kelnacca because Kelnacca did nothing wrong. Kelnacca is probably the only innocent Jedi in this whole mess related to Brendok. And it we count the series overall, Jecki and Yord did nothing wrong either.

[plain cove]

Yes it was a silly thing to do, but if your response to oh thats a bit spooky is a MUDER DEATH KILL! you might be over reacting a bit

Kelnacca also kept the secret of what happened. He wasn't an innocent. IMO.

[nimble plover]

A bit, but his reactions throughout tell me that either the Jedi or his home planet have a deep seated prejudice against Force using witches.

IMO, Sol's biggest sin was the fault of the Jedi Order. The way the Jedi are at that time, he could not admit that he was wrong. He compartmentalized and rationalized his actions as being noble and for the greater good, especially for Osha. He had it so wrapped up in his head that he couldn't bring himself to admit that he messed up, despite clearly regretting his actions, and he couldn't even apologize. I can't be fully mad at Osha for killing him because I would've been angry too if I had my entire life of 15 years crash down around my head. Do I think Sol deserved death? Absolutely not. But he told Osha "It's alright". At the end, even if he didn't deserve to be murdered by someone he cared deeply for, HE felt he dserved it. And that's what makes Sol such a great, compelling character.

[plain cove]

I'm not 'mad' at of of them because they are just characters BUT Sol's main issue was his, jealousy and hubris, he WANTED a padawan, and he WANTED it to be a creation of the force. He more than anyone (IMO) had 'fallen to the darkside' a long time ago. Not in the obvious red light saber murderous way of a sith but still filled with self interest, I don't think he ever wanted to save Osha, he wanted her alive for his benefit, his advancement. As to Osha murdering him? If she had cut him down in a rage I could get that, but she took her time doing it. Neither Mae or Osha come out of it very well, both turn out to be very ready to do some murdering.... like Anakin, maybe it turns out making people out of the force... isn't a good idea.

I will obviously concede Jecki and Yord, didn't deserve what happened to them. KInd of wasted characters because I could see Jecki and Yord as a great team to build a story around.

[brave topaz]

I would add to the motivation of Sol’s hubris in that he wanted an emotional attachment. He felt a connection to Osha (or told himself the connection was strong to justify his choices) and he needed to justify maintaining that attachment instead of doing the Jedi thing and letting go.

As for Jecki and Yord, I would say they are not wasted on a narrative level precisely because their lives were cut short.

Within the story, losing them like that was a horrible, senseless waste of two interesting and ultimately kind people.

Which was the point.

If their lives weren’t going anywhere, it wouldn’t have been so devastating when they were killed.

[plain cove]

Yes... that bit of writing really worked... I sensed a great disturbance in the force as if a million voices cried out NOOOO!!! and then a little later OMG HIM TOO NOOOO!!! when they got X'd

[midnight hill]

https://ew.com/the-acolyte-creator-leslye-headland-season-2-heard-nothing-8681155?utm_campaign=entertainmentweekly_entertainmentweekly&utm_content=photo&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_term={{.ShareRef}}&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1gmoj0PJ0Er9gtvxwdW_Tea928PRDWmSLSVNtUR7frMybAEIALdYXUAjE_aem_8L0nKpq_6hdmY9YmEZNNOQ

[wet stag]

Some interesting stuff in that article.

[frank violet]

Mother Aniseya wasn't purely blameless either. What she did to a poor whiny kid who just wanted to go home helped to precipitate what he did in desperation later.

[modern gazelle]

Kelnacca gets a pass. The rest of you all boo

[vivid vessel]

If you turn into a cloud of black smoke in front of me I am probably going to flip the heck out and start stabbin' too. That's very much an understandable response when things have escalated to the level of drawn weapons.

Especially since I know you can do mind control shenanigans, and I don't know that you can't do it while being smoke too. Stabbing a cloud is suboptimal.

[brave topaz]

But you’re not a Jedi.

Stabbing someone who is doing a magical thing you don’t understand because it looks scary is a fear based reaction.

Which is understandable. It’s a human reaction to stab the scary thing.

But the Jedi make a big thing out of not reacting with fear. They train to specifically not do that.

Sol messed up. Because Jedi are human.

Which is not something the Jedi are comfortable admitting.

[nimble plover]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-yoda-the-clone-wars-attack-of-the-clones-the-mandalorian-gif-21104666

[vivid vessel]

That you know of :v

But yeah, you are absolutely correct. It is, however, also the pragmatic and tactically sound thing to do. The time for being a good jedi passed the second blades ignited, which was a while back.

If anything Sol's mistake was not bringing Torbin back from the beginning, lending weight to your point about his hubris.

[brave topaz]

If you’ve figured out how to use the force in real life, provide an instruction manual please and thank you.

[vivid vessel]

It's more of a vibes-based thing I'm afraid.

[brave topaz]

Steeples fingers Ah, yes. The vibes.

[vivid vessel]

Really though, the closest I have ever felt to "the force" was accidentally working myself into flow-state when playing pool by applying Tai-Chi training.

So I guess go study Tai-Chi a bit and then try play pool and see how you get on?

[jade cape]

gotta go, vibes are off

[plain cove]

I wasn't quite clear on it but did she just kill all those witches with a thought? Or were they unconcious and killed in the fire?

[austere tiger]

If we're talking about the same scene, I believe her act of abruptly cutting their connection to Kelnacca killed them just from the mental backlash. Like stopping a speeding car when nobody inside has seatbelts on.

[brave topaz]

It occurred to me recently that what happened to the witches was actually a bit like the original Matrix film.

If you jack into the Matrix, you have to unplug properly to get out safely.
If someone just yanks the plug out on you, you’re dead.

That’s what Indara did.

She didn’t know how the witches’ magic worked, she was just trying to free Kelnacca.

And she pulled the plug on all of them.

[plain cove]

Pretty hard core result from 1 Jedi vs almost all of the Witches.

[brave topaz]

There’s a reason the Jedi were the dominant force cult in the galaxy for millennia.

And Indara is a very capable master.

Who was trying to de-escalate and keep Sol and Torbin from shenanigans.

Didn’t work so well, sadly.

[plain cove]

They got the Politician spot on as well. 'I can't control you so I will try to destroy you.'

[thick heron]

They took force sensitive children from their parents very young so no other cults could arise?