The Acolyte - Episode 4 Discussion

[mystic ore]

Everyone studies Shyriiwook (so that's how it's pronounced) or Basilish, but you sure never see a human speak it.

[buoyant lark]

It was in the RotJ novelization that gave us that insight

He did bleed his own crystal. It's like the last page in The Rise of Kylo Ren comics. You might be thinking of the bled kyber crystal Luke has in his hut on Ahch-to

[brisk loom]

Sucha good book. I wish there was a way to recanonize it

[woven arrow]

Wrecker said a few words in The Bad Batch Season 2.
But your point stands.

[royal niche]

I figure it’s like Dr.Shakalu in Grandma’s Boy, if you try saying something in their language you’ll probably just horribly mispronounce it and insult them

[brisk loom]

I think most wookiees understand basic, but their anatomy prevents them from speaking it. I could be wrong tho!

[mystic ore]

That's definitely how it's portrayed.

[urban forum]

Zeb faked some Skyriiwook in the very first episode of Star Wars Rebels. But he's not human, so that doesn't count on multiple levels.

[mystic ore]

Of course, they also can't pronounce "Chewbacca" or "Kashyyyk" or "Shyriiwook".

[brisk loom]

Interestingly enough, Bell from the HR learning to both speak and understand Shriiywook! The bond he shares with Burry is so captivating

[urban forum]

I believe that's called a transcription. It's when a word in one language is a proper noun, but it has sounds that don't exist in another language, so the other language creates an equivalent word.

[royal niche]

Or this might be a better analogy 😝

[mystic ore]

Transliteration? I think even that's a little fuzzy in this case.

[tight thunder]

Did we ever get the ACTUAL canon death scene for her yet? lol

[mystic ore]

Maybe she's fine.

[timid oxide]

In legends there was one wookiee that had some kind of speech impediment thing that hurt their native language but allowed them to speak basic. Though that probably isn't a thing anymore

[brisk loom]

I think the deleted scene of Anakin killing her in the Jedi Temple👀I faintly remember seeing glimpses of it during the Mortis arc, just before Father blanked Anakin's memory

[brisk loom]

Oooh! Would be interesting to see in canon fr!

[urban forum]

You are correct. That one is canon.

[tight thunder]

She also claimed that the lightsaber hilts had to be made thick for the electronics, something that is immediately proven false by every other Star Wars show with lightsabers. I don't like calling creatives on their bullsh[QUACK], but she's made such claims before...

[brisk loom]

I kinda preferred Grevious killing her on the Invisible Hand

[urban forum]

Do you mean on screen? Who do you suppose could voice a Galactic Basic-speaking Wookiee?

[brisk loom]

I've been looking forward to seeing more of the lightsabers in action because of this. It was a tiny bit disappointing ngl

[royal niche]

I’m pretty sure there was a practical reason for the change, part of which was the hardware inside the saber, so that’s not a lie…did they have to? Maybe not. Is she lying? No

[brisk loom]

Would be diabolically hilarious if Kelnacca had the most posh British accent. Headland had the opportunity to do one of the funniest things of all time smh

[tight thunder]

RIGHT?! It was like "Aw yeah, now we get some saber fighting-WHADDAYA MEAN IT'S A CLIFFHANGER?!"

[brisk loom]

WAS A WIIILD SPOT TO END THE EPISODE FR LMFAOOOO JUST WHEN IT WAS GETTIN GOOD

SEEING SMILEY FLOAT DOWN REMINDED ME OF THE VADER HALLWAY SCENE LMAOO I JUST KNEW IT WAS BOUTTA GO DOOOWN

[tight thunder]

I don't really believe that. Ahsoka's sabers. The Darksaber. Luke's saber. Sabine's saber. Baylan's. Shin's. Ezra's. All normal size hilts. Even discounting that Disney doesn't do the smart thing and collaborate with these saber-smiths that make the electronics work in such small hilts, the precedent exists that the sabers in the show don't need to be Savi's sized.

[royal niche]

I mean I’m in the camp of being a bit disappointed by the sabers but they didn’t make the change just to piss fans off or because they didn’t know better

[woven arrow]

I mean
If we’re going by the behind the scenes OT footage of Peter Mayhew as Chewbacca saying lines in English before they were replaced with roaring in post production, Wookiees DO speak with an English accent.

[tight thunder]

https://tenor.com/view/acolyte-sith-fly-enter-osha-gif-17339989067657030731

[brisk loom]

EXAAAAAACTLY. End of the episode is just Kelnacca puffing a pipe, in a robe by the fireplace. All British-like

[woven arrow]

Still creepy 24 hours later.
Good to know.

[urban forum]

Do they really? They've pissed a LOT of fans off already with this show. Have you seen the fan score on Rotten Tomatoes? 15%!!!!!

[tight thunder]

And a total Sith-like dramatic entrance.

[royal niche]

If you’re basing your opinion of the show on RT ratings I don’t know what to tell you

[tight thunder]

There are so many idiots review bombing RT that they're even attacking other programs named Acolyte. So no, that score is meaningless.

[royal niche]

Viewership numbers are up/high

Sooo

[urban forum]

It's not my opinion. I'm just pointing out that clearly fans are pissed off, or it would be higher.

[mystic ore]

Some people are.

"Fans are..." can be applied to anything.

Fans are pissed off. Fans are loving it. Fans are only into it for Yord shirtless. Fans are building Gundam models while they watch. Fans are already writing their own fanfic about Basil. Fans are young. Fans are old. Fans are very sleepy.

Every one of those is undoubtedly true.

Also, nothing is more fanatical than a fan. Who would trust a fan's opinion of anything?

[brisk loom]

I don't think the change was deliberate, but just disappointing. This all goes by Disney being, well, Disney. They have ample resources (funds, imagineers, reputation, networking) at their finger tips yet still somehow miss the mark. The lightsabers being choooonky isn't the end of the world, but was just one of those little things you'd hope they'd get right

[tight thunder]

The only bright side is that the eventual Legacy sabers will be properly sized 🤣

[mystic ore]

I assume there's a reason the sabers look like that. Maybe they have a new tech they felt was worth the thicker hilts.

[brisk loom]

I mean i'm sure at least someone in the props dept has a CNC machine, programming and soldering skills idK idk imma little jaded

[brisk loom]

With how the competition's products been looking, Disney doing this would be a wild move. Definitely a dent to their line-up. Shadow's right, they should've teamed up with saber-smiths to get it right

[mystic ore]

If they easily could have been thinner but aren't, then the choices are a) incompetence, b) that's how they wanted them to look and it's their choice, or c) we don't have any way of knowing why yet.

I don't think this is an incompetent show.

[royal niche]

So yeah back to this episode…just noticed when Yord said “we have a tracker” he whips out a cloth from his belt. My first thought was, you just pulled that out of what’s basically your pants Yord, Basil is only going to smell you lol

[mystic ore]

Why does anyone but the people making the show get to decide if the never-before-seen lightsabers belonging to these never-before-seen characters are "right" or "wrong"?

They're obviously right, because they don't have previous "right" designs that they're deviating from.

[royal niche]

https://discord.com/channels/478345594641973248/1219324273944957009 is probably the best place to debate

[mystic ore]

You can dislike them, but they're still right.

[urban forum]

Kelnacca probably sheds. Maybe Bazal is smelling the hair on the rag.

[brisk loom]

Good point! I dig the designs of some of the hilts. My gripe was based on proportion. Human characters having these massively chunky hilts just feels goofy (Of course, it could just be preference). Jaro Tapal's hilt being super chunky makes sense given his stature

[mystic ore]

Not liking the aesthetics is totally fair!

[royal niche]

I just chalked it down to fashion and quit letting it bother me

[mystic ore]

I haven't seen enough detail shots to really have an opinion either way.

[royal niche]

True, my only issue is no one seems to have had contact with Kelnacca in years

[mystic ore]

I think just one year?

[brisk loom]

The designs are unique! We saw a few of the shots from the red carpet premiere

[mystic ore]

I do like unique.

Unique is my favorite flavor of lightsaber.

[urban forum]

If there was still hair on the rag from one year ago, depending on how good Bazal's sense of smell is, I think it still makes sense.

[royal niche]

It does stand to reason Kelnacca might leave “wet dog smell” on the robes he wears lol

[mystic ore]

Wookiees may just be really musky, we don't know.

[royal niche]

But man that would be stinky lol

[brisk loom]

I feel like he'd smell like freshly chopped wood mixed with hints of a bon-fire

[mystic ore]

Well, he does now.

[brisk loom]

LMFAOOOOO

[high granite]

Thank you SO SO MUCH for sharing this image. When I was watching this episode, my brain somehow did not process that this was a spooky figure descending in the background - I thought it was like a bug or a leaf or something in the foreground dropping down from a tree (I have had spiders land on me like that) and I was so confused. It was only after I came in here and saw the discussion that I realized what had happened.

[urban forum]

Imagine how bad Chewie smelled after being in the mud pit that Han rescued him from in Solo.

[royal niche]

Wait a second, the Kel’dor Jedi was with them at the end, he’s not in the scenes when they leave the ship, but he’s there when Smiley shows up

[brisk loom]

The lead-up to that scene is how I'd envision a live action TCW. Very band of brothers

[urban forum]

Speaking of which, is it true that there's a sequel to Solo in the works?

[mystic ore]

Probably not.

Until and unless they make the Lando show.

[brisk loom]

I doubt it

To be fair, I didn't think Solo got a fair shot. Was a pretty solid movie

[mystic ore]

Oh, I loved it.

But it did very badly.

[urban forum]

I read something about a leak about Disney gathering the cast of Solo for another production. People are saying Solo might be getting a sequel.

[brisk loom]

Yeaaah I think it just came out at a horrible time. I mean it had to compete with Infinity war!

[mystic ore]

I'd love it if so, but in the current toxic atmosphere, "we're making a sequel to the only Star Wars box office bomb" would be terrible PR.

[brisk loom]

I always feel so bad for Emilia Clarke

[urban forum]

Well, Lando has gotten reworked twice(?) now. Perhaps, they're reworking it into a full-cast effort?

[brisk loom]

I think Donald Glover and his brother were writing it! A part of me thinks Disney was waiting to see how well Andor would do before they greenlit anymore side character stories

[urban forum]

Well, last I heard, Lando had been reannounced as a theatrical film, rather than a series. I'm just thinking maybe it's been reworked again so that it includes more of the cast of the first Solo movie.

[brisk loom]

Ahh that reminds me. Sometimes I think Lucasfilm films the tv series as movies, then break up certain segments into episodes

Which isn't a bad thing, but it explains a lot fr

[mystic ore]

If Lando happens at all, I'll be delighted.

[urban forum]

Also, what ever happened to A Droid Story? They haven't even referenced it at all for YEARS! But as far as we know, it's still in production. What the hell, Disney?

[mystic ore]

Plans change.

[urban forum]

Usually, when they change, they tell the fans about it. Look at Rogue Squadron as an example. They weren't upfront about everything, but at least they gave us updates every once in a while! It got cancelled last year, but they told us. Most likely, A Droid Story got cancelled too, but have they told us? Nope.

[buoyant lark]

Reminder that Han spoke Shyriiwook in Solo.

[urban forum]

Interesting how Wrecker is the only one who we've heard speak FLUENT Shyriiwook. Han was a beginner, and Zeb was just faking it.

[tight thunder]

At the very least, Qi'ra did go on to have pretty big roles in the comics and ||she'll appear in Star Wars Outlaws||

[woven dagger]

Qi'ra looked better in a cloak than... Lando, there I said it.

[tight thunder]

It's all about the style and presentation. She picked exactly the right combination of outfit and cape.

[robust rain]

Doesn’t Han try to speak with when he meets Chewbacca in the pit in Solo?

Never mind, I see someone else made that point…I’m behind.

[bold owl]

I just caught up lol

There were a lot of messages tonight!

[robust rain]

Definitely!

[robust rain]

I rewatched that entire last scene again. For some reason I thought an unknown person had Force flicked Osha away from the creepy creature, but then I realized it was the creepy creature themself who flicked her away before attacking the Jedi.

[wraith vessel]

Wait wait wait

Qimir says their master collects people (I used to too) but that means it possibly wasn't him/master who killed Kelnacca.

There could be more people.

There could be many more.

[royal niche]

For awhile I thought Smiley was him, but it feels more like Smiley is closely watching from the shadows

[wraith vessel]

Or Darth Smiles is just Qimir and he's just Star Wars Erik from the Phantom of the Opera.

Little homicidal love puppy.

[royal niche]

Maybe Qimir even knows that Smiley is a few steps behind them, but I’m not convinced it’s him

They’ve been throwing curveballs left and right, only thing I’m sure of anymore is Torbin had a glorious beard

[wraith vessel]

I need to watch it again to see if Kelnacca offed himself.

[wise flower]

Smylo Ren

[mystic ore]

Given Mae sees the saber burn across his chest and says something like "He's here," I think it's safe to assume she's right about Smiley doing it.

Unless I'm misremembering. I was very sleepy.

[wraith vessel]

New winner!

[robust rain]

You’re not misremembering.

[wraith vessel]

I don't understand how her saying that means she's right that it was done by Smylo Ren.

Am I missing something?

Do you think she senses him through the injury?

Or that that slash is one she's seen before by him?

[native heath]

I know it’s been talked about already but Darths helmet ::chefs kiss::

I hope we get a Black series release.

[mystic ore]

She saw that Kelnacca had just been killed by a lightsaber slash, and she only knew one person who was likely to do that.

If he'd done it to himself, it would have been a hole through his torso, not a slash across his chest. And narratively, I'm sure we would have seen some indication that he'd been in a self-stabbing pose when he died.

[wraith vessel]

Not necessarily just a hole.

He could have done seppuku. Although it's a bit high.

He is peacefully in his chair.

[wise flower]

Weird he was apparently sitting down when it happened

[wraith vessel]

No evidence of struggle.

Exactly.

Did we see anything turned over or in disarray?

I'd be interested to see if there is a lightsaber on the ground.

Can you tell my kid loves crime shows? Lol

Heck is he even really dead? Are we going to see him pop up behind Mae?

[left raptor]

I really like Sol I think he’s the standout in the show for me so far

[wise flower]

Or he saw it coming and let it happen like Torbin

[left raptor]

This episode was really good

[wise flower]

Sol Patrol reporting for duty

[wise flower]

Very good but too short and the cliffhanger wasn't nice

[left raptor]

Yeah I agree, really annoying when it ends on a cliffhanger 😅 I can’t wait for the next episode

[wraith vessel]

So there is something on his desk, just to the side of the monitor at the same level as his wound. But Disney+ won't let me screencap. It's also too small for me to see it clearly.

[wraith vessel]

Very true. Obviously Kelnacca was quite fixated on the girls as we see their coven's art all over.

Whether he drew the art, or found it, and for what purpose is also an interesting mystery! Such juicy little bits in just a couple scenes!

[urban forum]

Important point: What was in the pipe? If he was high, that could have affected how or if he would react to an attack.

[urban forum]

Oh, wait. What is seppuku? Is that what you meant?

[wraith vessel]

There was a pipe?

[tight thunder]

Seppuku is a Japanese method of suicide to atone for dishonorable acts. ||It is typically self disemboweling with a blade ||

[woven arrow]

Morning Acolyte Fans
Here’s some Earth Bazils letting you know they found Mae.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=shared&v=KQVajqoTGMA

[high granite]

I may have missed this in the thread, but do we have a species name for The Aliens That Look Like Chubby White Cats with Two Sets of Ears? I was delighted to see the live action version of that little guy from Bad Batch.

[woven arrow]

They’re called Tarlafar.
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Tarlafar

Space hamster cat friends.

[high granite]

Thank you!

[scenic palm]

@ember musk #1252298898463260702 message

[ember musk]

What did I do now??

[mystic ore]

I did not at all remember those guys started in Solo.

I'm glad. We don't see nearly enough wacky new species show up across multiple movies/shows and eras.

[outer birch]

I got super excited when I spotted this guy!

Bright Suns Acolyte Fans!

[urban forum]

Do Tarlafars need their collars to speak? I've rewatched The Bad Batch more times than I care to say, and I've noticed that their collars seem to light up when they are vocalizing.

[woven arrow]

When they speak, is it in Basic or their own language?
(The Tarlafar I’m most familiar with was an infant, so he’s not a good example of adult speech).

[urban forum]

Baryn's mother spoke Basic.

[bold owl]

I could not figure out where we had just seen a Tarlafar lmao

[lethal berry]

So, Bazil seems to have been a Tynnan, which are from Han Solo's Revenge in 1992.

[bold owl]

this heat wave got my brain cooked

[lethal berry]

I was thinking he was an odd Selonian maybe.

[bold owl]

Does that predate their appearance in the WEG Corporate Sector source book?

I know some of the later source books were based off the books

[woven arrow]

Then I’d say that either the collars translate their language to Basic…OR the collars are there to address a vocal frequency issue.

Maybe their normal voices are so high pitched that it’s outside the hearing range of humans and other similar species, so they need the collars to make their voices audible to non-Tarlafars.

[royal field]

Aren't Tynnans one of the oldest bits of the EU as well?
I think they were first in EU in...79?

80

?

[lethal berry]

Yes, because I fluffed my typing. The collected trilogy was published in 1992, the actual book was 1979, and the sourcebook was 1993.

We're digging into pre-ESB EU stuff with this, and it's great.

[bold owl]

Okay, yeah, that sounds correct.

[urban forum]

That brings a fun fact to mind. Kyber crystals were originally spelled Kaiburr crystals. They're spelled that way in the very first book in the EU, Splinter Of The Mind's Eye.

[bold owl]

Yup! That was our first book club book this year.

[lethal berry]

I got around to reading it in the end. It's not a good book, but it sure is interesting

[blissful dune]

Me, looking at the Jedi that we only met in this episode: "Well, these guys are goners. Surprised their tabards aren't red."

[mystic ore]

yet

[outer birch]

I’ll need lots of tissue boxes for next episode 😭

[timid oxide]

Amen. When we finally see Vernestra betray the Jedi order it will be hard to go back

[outer birch]

Noooooooo 😭

[wild crystal]

She will whip it good

[woven arrow]

I’m also anticipating a need for a security blanket.

Or a beloved stuffed animal.

Something to reassure that the monsters aren’t real, they can’t hurt you.

[outer birch]

Definitely an emotional support porg

[bold owl]

I will be gripping Loth Cat Gios (our cudleez loth cat)

[tight thunder]

https://x.com/MaceAhWindu/status/1803774951813497218

MaceAhWindu 🇵🇸 (@MaceAhWindu) on X

Ah yes, ‘Sith Lords’

We have dismissed that claim.

Twitter · Jun 20, 2024, 1:00 PM

[urban forum]

I've never gotten rid of any of the stuffed animals I had when I was a little kid, even though I'm about to go to college. I saw your comment, and went to go see what I had. Surprising, there was nothing officially Star Wars, but I found a Bazil!

Also, as far as unofficial Marvel goes, I've got that covered too! 🤣

[woven arrow]

Between Bazil and the combo-Flerken, you’ll probably be safe from the Floaty Tooth Dentist with the red lightsaber. 😅

[urban forum]

https://tenor.com/view/kitty-review-weird-cat-cat-review-review-of-cat-kitty-gif-21098907

I actually think the Flerken was a stroke of genius. I have barely seen any of the MCU. I just happened to be in the room when my mom was watching Captain Marvel. I walked in when the Flerken got its first scene, and I was like WTF, and it just stuck with me.

[coarse slate]

I loved how they used the Flerken in the Marvels

[outer birch]

That one sleeps with me every night. Somehow ends up on my husband’s side and complains every day about. I told him I can’t control that kitty, but he doesn’t understand cat behavior. 😂

[lethal berry]

It's just a direct port from the comics... except there his name isn't Goose... it's Chewbacca.

[wet hull]

How can you not love cats… I mean, Flerken.

[wet hull]

Argh, I missed that! Off to rewatch!

[urban forum]

Honestly, I didn't even know that. I'm just not a Marvel person. What little I know mostly comes from my mom watching the MCU.

I also know a little from a cult TV series called Mystery Science Theater 3000 (MST3K for short). The format of the show is quite bizarre. Every episode has a different B-movie. That B-movie is shown in the episode in edited form to fit a 2-hour time block (formerly with commercials). The 3 main characters of the show watch the movie and have a commentary over it making jokes about it that are supposed to turn the B-movie into something worth watching. It actually works most of the time! Anyway, despite this format, they sometimes manage to pull off "story arcs" of sorts. They watch related movies in a row and give the "story arc" a title. Some of things I know about Marvel come from the story arc "M.C.U. (Misbegotten Crap Universe)" 🤣 In that arc, they watch several movies that rip off superheroes from Marvel. The most well-known episode from that arc in the MST3K community is Doctor Mordrid, which is a rip-off of the hero Doctor Strange.

[bold owl]

that is a good description of MST3K but boy did that make me feel old

[mystic ore]

Same.

It was like seeing Spider-Man talk about that old movie, The Empire Strikes Back.

[urban forum]

If anyone is curious about that episode, DO NOT PAY FOR IT! I can DM you a copy of it. It IS NOT piracy. I personally funded that season of the show, and Joel Hodgson (the creator of the show) said anyone who did so is free to share those files as they like.

Plus, the episode I am talking about is from 2023.

[woven arrow]

“You are the Pumaman.”

[mystic ore]

Better pic.

[urban forum]

It's pronounced P-yu-maman. 🤣

[woven arrow]

Truly one of the movies of all time.

[mystic ore]

He flies like a moron.

[urban forum]

They did a subscriber-exclusive livestream of that episode with new host segments during Season 13. Did you get to see that?

[mystic ore]

Let's make sure we don't get scolded for Veers-ing too far off topic.

[urban forum]

Okay, then. Moving to #off-topic-chat-and-meta ?

[tight thunder]

https://tenor.com/view/veers-empire-strikes-back-general-veers-gif-26020815

[blissful bear]

https://tenor.com/view/get-out-leave-gtfo-get-out-of-here-gif-6207127

[bold owl]

There was a time when everyone in nerd circles knew and loved MST3K. So the fact that this isn't the case anymore and that you felt that you had to explain what it was is what made me feel old.

[woven arrow]

Now we know how Vernestra feels.

“Darn kids, trying to run to the Jedi High Council, making too much of a fuss, abandoning an orphan eight year old due to presumed death…”

[urban forum]

I don't think I've EVER met someone as young as I am who knew about the series before I explained to them, so yeah... 😮‍💨

I'm just used to doing it, I guess. On Discord, you can't really tell how old people are unless they want you to know.

[mystic ore]

I'm old, everybody!

[urban forum]

I'm gonna help put this channel back on topic.

Does Vernestra's species age slowly? She doesn't look much older (if any older) than Sol does.

[mystic ore]

Must do, because of that thing you mentioned.

[urban forum]

Huh? What thing?

[woven arrow]

She’s a Mirialan.
And tbh I’m not completely sure how they age normally.

They’re not human, so it’s perfectly plausible they could have longer lifespans as a species.

It’s also possible Vernestra’s connection to the force (strong enough to make her a child prodigy and the youngest Padawan ever knighted) increased her vitality and caused her to age slower without her even trying.

Or it might be a mix of both.

[raw plaza]

Is the Sith lord err is it jarjar level being it

[buoyant lark]

Mirialans have a longer life span than humans. In The Acolyte she'd be ~166 years old. (She's 16 in THR and that starts ~150 years prior). She seems to age normally in THR and behaves appropriately for a 16 year prodigy. General Veiss is also a Mirialan and lived probably at minimum 180 years

[mystic ore]

That she doesn't look older than Sol, yet is.

I assume all this means Sandro is like seventy-five.

[wet hull]

I’m not happy with the cliffhanger ending.
checks watch to see how long it takes to next Wednesday

[woven arrow]

It’s five days, two hours and forty five minutes until it drops.

But if you can’t watch until Wednesday it’s a bit longer.

[wise flower]

Ok keep us updated

[mystic ore]

I want to know the moment that number changes.

[woven arrow]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-space-jump-explosion-crash-gif-20129632

[tight thunder]

https://tenor.com/view/sanders-colonel-sanders-dark-helmet-when-will-then-be-now-how-soon-gif-25062380

[royal field]

Love this. So much.

[wraith vessel]

He (or she or they) is my sexuality. Quite literally. Pan life! Is that ok to say?

If not. Sorry delete it for me please if not. I gotta go chase kiddo.

[blissful dune]

Does anyone quite understand what Vern is, Jediwise? I thought she was on the council because she orders Sol around but then she said this episode not to tell the Council what they are doing.

[buoyant lark]

She's a Jedi master, not on the council. She might be a member of one of the secondary councils but that hasn't been mentioned. She just might have administrative oversight in the area Sol is assigned to. No exact answer. The main council can't be responsible for the comings and goings of ten thousand Jedi.

[toxic glacier]

Ngl when the saber Ignited for a split sec I thought he stabbed osha

[lethal berry]

She does mention that there's a "High Council" of some form.

[tight thunder]

I believe what WE generally refer to as the Jedi Council is the High Council. That's likely where Yareal Poof, Oppo Rancisis, and Yoda are spending their time.

[woven arrow]

Ordering pizza.

Making Yarael Poof go pick it up.

As Robot Chicken has shown us.

[lethal berry]

It's strongly implied that communications is pretty slow outside the core still, so it makes some sense that there'd be regional ones.

[urban forum]

How much backstory have we gotten on the Knights Of Ren? I don't think I know ANYTHING about them! But after seeing that collage, Smiley is screaming Ren to me. Were there Knights Of Ren that long ago?

[robust rain]

I remember watching MST3K in undergrad in the early to mid 90s.

[bold owl]

We don't know a ton. Just what's in the Rise of Kylo Ren comic

which portrays them as a Force-wielding gang not unlike the gang in A Clockwork Orange

causing mayhem and such

[tight thunder]

We honestly don't really even know how Kylo became "master of the Knights of Ren". For all we know, he just bullied his way to the top.

[royal niche]

If we’re getting MST3K explained to us Clockwork Orange might be a bit too “old” for some here 🤣

[mystic ore]

I just assumed he killed Ren.

[buoyant lark]

This is what happened. It's in the rise of Kylo Ren comic.

[grand oxide]

how? this show is 100 years BBY yeah? He wasn't even born yet

[mystic ore]

I will say, "Master of the Knights of Ren" sounds a lot less cool when it's "Master of the Knights who followed a guy named Ren until three months ago."

Imagine if the Jedi Knights had turned out to just be Steve Jedi's old gang from when Luke was a kid.

[mystic ore]

He was now.

[bold owl]

If the kids are watching MST3K maybe they are watching or reading A Clockwork Orange!

[grand oxide]

ngl my enthusiasm for this show has cooled off quite a bit.

[blissful bear]

https://tenor.com/view/captain-america-i-understood-that-reference-look-back-gif-14556485

[tight thunder]

How?!

https://tenor.com/view/the-acolyte-force-push-star-wars-jedi-the-master-gif-209334768537926240

Like, come on! Huge freaking cliffhanger.

[buoyant lark]

How do you know when he was born?

[wraith vessel]

Is that 8 lightsabers?

3 yellow 3 green 2 blue
Smylo Ren just push back 8 jedi.

Yall.

Not just eight people. Eight jedi!

[urban forum]

I think one of them is more of an orange. Or maybe that's just the dust. I don't know. It would be kinda weird for a Jedi to have a lightsaber that close a shade to red.

[urban forum]

I think we're all overlooking something here. Even if you have the force, you can still be surprised by something. And "Smylo Ren" was a HUGE surprise to them. It probably caught them off-guard. If they had been expecting him, I don't think he could have pulled that off.

[wet hull]

No, that’s the dust. They’re all clearly yellow in the first shot. The it turns orange and even red from the dust.

In a way Mae killed a Jedi while being unarmed. She made Smiley Ren do it for her.

[urban forum]

That SOOOO doesn't count. Especially since she betrayed him to do it.

[wet hull]

Like a real manipulative, evil Sith-like Acolyte should.

[urban forum]

Hey, I just realized something. If Kylo was Master Of The Knights Of Ren, how come he always did his missions solo in the sequel trilogy until The Rise Of Skywalker? That's the first time we saw the others, minus a few seconds in a flashback in The Force Awakens.

Oh, wait. This is probably the wrong channel for that.

[grand oxide]

Wookiepedia

[timid oxide]

@grand oxide , @buoyant lark

In light of the fact that there are people who are toxic enough to make death threats to wookieepedia editors over the Ki-Adi Mundi age thing, let's not devote time to the birthday of a fictional space wizard.

There was a "date of birth" for Ki-Adi Mundi in pre-Disney material and the story team under Disney decided to go in a different direction. (Though Lucas himself changed details from Legends material and said only the movies were to be considered cannon while he was in charge)

Like it or not this is entertainment, and should not be a threatening space.

If you wish to come here to express your displeasure with the series or Disney's general direction this is probably not the place for you. There are lots of places online to bash the show, this thread, and this Discord in general, is for people who enjoys Star Wars and want to share that joy.

I said it yesterday and l'll say it in earnest again, life is too short to watch a movie or show, you don't enjoy, definitely too short to keep watching it week after week, and way way too short to spend time writing about how much you dislike it to strangers in the internet. If you aren't enjoying the show I implore you to go do something else that gives you enjoyment, read a book, play a video game, paint something, watch another show, spend time with a loved one. Life is just too short.

https://screenrant.com/star-wars-ki-adi-mundi-age-retcon-controversy/

[royal field]

I have removed most of the early morning back and forth.

Cubby has good points above ^. You all should read them, and take them to heart.

That being said, as long as we are being respectful, and engaging in meaningful discussion (not rehashing the same point 15 times, not arguing over a topic that literally no one cared about until 2 days ago...)

Discuss on, friends.

In other words, lets not be like this:

[grand oxide]

Thank you @royal field

[mystic ore]

That article made its best stab at how to spell Wookieepedia and decided no further research was required.

[high granite]

😂 at least the headline got it right

[mystic ore]

I assume somebody else wrote it.

[robust rain]

Wookieepedia schmookieepedia?!

[tight thunder]

All ill say about the Ki Are thing is this: he seems like the kind of person who would lie about their age 😂

[wet hull]

So, back to my theory (of which I’m very proud) that Mae passed the test of killing a Jedi unarmed by making Smiley do it? Come on, that’s clever. No? Ok… I’ll sit down again.

[buoyant lark]

Good morning, I think? Not sure my post elicited those responses.

[blissful bear]

https://tenor.com/view/out-of-line-anthony-mackie-sam-wilson-falcon-the-falcon-and-the-winter-soldier-gif-21182970

[woven arrow]

I think it would have counted IF Mae had deliberately manipulated Smiley into doing it.

But I don’t think Mae was faking her intent to reunite with Osha (due to what we’ve seen in episode 3, she sees them as a unit that belong together forever).

And she was surprised and scared to see Kelnacca murdered. She truly hadn’t realized Smiley was in the forest.

If it turns out Mae’s defection from her murder agenda was a fakeout, then I’m wrong.

But based on Mae’s facial expressions when she is alone, I don’t think her plan was to get Smiley to kill Kelnacca.

[wet hull]

Stop spoiling my beautiful theory with your keen and correct observations.

Anyway… we’re withheld too much information. What were the Jedi doing that night? What’s the connection with Smiley? Who/what killed the witches. What was that machine? Did Mae really start the fire? Has Jecki fallen in love with Osha?

And most importantly, why can’t I spin a lightsaber like Jecki does???

[woven arrow]

radio announcer voice All the answers to these questions and more, in the next four episodes of…The Acolyte!

[urban forum]

Where are you getting the falling in love part? They just seemed like they became friends really quickly if you ask me.

[woven arrow]

I’d call it idolization.

Part of Jecki’s character is that she looks up to people she respects. She hangs on Sol’s every word because he’s a very good teacher.

Then Osha helped Jecki fix that control panel problem in Episode 2, and from there Osha has been generally capable and brave (barring an emotional blaster misfire).

On the opposite side of things Yord is a try hard, so Jecki very obviously does NOT idolize Yord. 😅

[wet hull]

I felt some tension between the two, more in the direction Jecki -> Osha. But I’ve been wrong before. See above.

[tight thunder]

I saw it said that Dafne Keen was playing Jecki like she had a crush on Osha, but I haven't looked too deep into it to see if that's really something she said.

[urban forum]

Definitely.

"What's wrong with Yord?"
"Nothing. It's just... Yord..."

[woven arrow]

Honestly if Jecki has an actual crush on Osha that’s plausible too.

The same things that would make her idolize Osha (her Master’s former Padawan who is older and helpful and friendly and who her Master clearly respects) might also prompt a crush.

[urban forum]

I also read that Leslye Headland was basing certain aspects of the show on her experiences with the LGBTQ+ community. Could this be part of that? Keep in mind that I've never seen that in an interview or an official Star Wars article. It's always been an indirect source.

[wet hull]

If that’s true it was completely lost on me. I suspect that’s a “I need hate everything Disney Star Wars and need a justification/ clicks”.

[mystic ore]

I saw an article talk about Smiley as the eponymous Acolyte, and I was like, "Wow, how do you miss that Mae is the Acolyte," and then I thought about it and realized the show has never actually stated that. He could have been talking about himself, not giving her a pep talk.

[woven arrow]

Funny you should say that, there’s actually another piece of SW media that supports the idea of a dark sider talking about themself/for themselves in a non-obvious way.

Granted the media is Lego Star Wars: Terrifying Tales, but still.

Spoiler marked screenshot from the Wookiepedia summary:

[mystic ore]

Psshh, any LSW that I didn't write is obviously non-canon.

[woven arrow]

Lol I think the term the Lego Star Wars folks use is ‘canon-adjacent’. 😅

Lego Star Wars is not canon.

But fans are encouraged to imagine similar events might have occurred in an…ahem…more realistic manner.

[mystic ore]

Except Lt. Sarlacc-Face.

[woven arrow]

Aw the Lego clones should be canon, they have fun names.

[mystic ore]

Sorry, that was in reply to the previous line about not being canon.

You typed faster than I did.

[woven arrow]

Lol gotcha.

[mystic ore]

And thank you!

[woven arrow]

Anyway

The Acolyte

https://x.com/candaceisageek/status/1803421811524141307?s=46&t=IItPmx-4WSwYiaHXaAPcqQ

Candace Kaw (@candaceisageek) on X

Now that Kelnacca is gone that makes Sol, the Sol survivor. #TheAcolyte

Twitter · Jun 19, 2024, 1:37 PM

^Here’s a terrible pun from Twitter. 😅

[mystic ore]

But who will survive Sol?

[bold owl]

BTW it is canon that Jecki is crushing on Osha per Dafne Keene.

[woven arrow]

Possibly no one.
I don’t think anyone shown so far has plot armor except for Ki Adi Mundi.

[graceful nexus]

Certainly not those unnamed Jedi-redshirts on an away mission

[buoyant lark]

It's Squid Game all over again!

[royal niche]

Sol Patrol has become the Sole Patrol 😢🤦‍♂️

[tight thunder]

I've heard that but haven't seen the actual source yet.

[lethal berry]

If the source is Dafne Keene then it's pretty solid.

[bold owl]

https://decider.com/2024/06/19/the-acolyte-dafne-keen-confirms-jecki-lon-queer-romance-with-amandla-stenberg-osha/

[tight thunder]

Thank you!

[wet hull]

Jecki acts like I would if I had a crush on someone. I like her. She’s my favorite character in the show.

[tight thunder]

Agreed, along with Sol.

[grand oxide]

Anyone find it weird that Mae and Osha have thr exact same hair even after being apart for 16 years?

[royal field]

No.

[buoyant lark]

they had the same hair style as kids during a trauma when they both thought their twin sister died. seems reasonable.

[grand oxide]

Like I get it's the same actress and they are saving money by having the same hair style for each of them, but this is star wars they surely have the budget for a different hair style for one of them

[buoyant lark]

they aren't saving money because they are two separate wigs. it was done on purpose.

[wet hull]

I find it more strange and intriguing that the Wookiee Jedi had the symbol of the witches all over the wall.

[royal field]

This

[scenic palm]

twin magic.

nature vs nurture.

there's always been stories about twins mirroring habits/actions even when they are not around each other.

[wet hull]

OR…. It’s the same person with multiple personality disorder!

… ok, I’ll be quiet now.

[toxic glacier]

I don't think I understand the mechanics of that theory

[woven arrow]

My assumption was that Kelnacca was still caught up in the guilt and trauma of what happened on Brendok (possibly exacerbated ||if the rumors are true and witch magic possessed him during the incident||). So while he’s doing his hermit thing, he obsessively draws their iconography on the walls.

[graceful nexus]

In Ep1 before it was decisively twins, we thought multiple personalities might be a possibility. It was a thing they did in V:tM Bloodlines, one twin had a split personality of the other that died traumatically

[mystic ore]

Isn't Mae's hair noticeably longer?

[tight thunder]

Yes

[royal niche]

Reminds me of seeing this recently

[royal niche]

She also has more color in her hair, where Osha’s hair that hangs over her forehead is darker, Mae’s is reddish-pink

[timid oxide]

But Torbin's beard...

[royal niche]

Is amazing?

[timid oxide]

Oh yes. It is the stuff if legends

[mystic ore]

Seems like a good new epithet. "By Torbin's beard!"

[coarse slate]

Oh yeah, well you're a big poopy-head. How's that for respectamability.

[tight thunder]

https://tenor.com/view/ahsoka-tano-clone-wars-facepalm-gif-21026513

[wet hull]

https://tenor.com/view/star-trek-patrick-stewart-captain-jean-luc-picard-face-palm-disappointed-gif-4780258

[timid oxide]

I mean mathematically his head is on the larger side, but he is also tall in general, but physiologically it isnt poop.... but maybe not the best joke

[coarse slate]

I can’t buy hats off the rack because of my big potato head and people tell me I’m full of it all the time so I consider myself an expert on the subject

[buoyant lark]

I thought about cases like this when the hair discourse first popped up. I'm pretty sure these guys aren't the only example. and we don't even have space magic!

[wise flower]

That's just the universe trying to save money

[lethal berry]

That storyline was a hell of a moment for me. I wasn't expecting the twist, but I also wasn't expecting to walk into their nightclub and hear actual music playing. Just hit at the exact right time in games for that to be a novel thing.

[urban forum]

Yeah. My head was spinning in confusion when it cut from the diner chef shaking in fear to Osha, who looked exactly like Mae, except we didn't know anything about either of them yet.

[woven arrow]

The Cast List on the Wikipedia (not Wookiepedia) page for the show spoiled me on Amandla Stenberg playing twins something like 24 hours in advance.
I was not happy with my carelessness, or with their oversharing.

Tbh I would have liked to have assumed Osha was Mae, then slowly figured out something was off based on Osha’s differing personality, plus her struggling to use the Force on the prison ship.

Or maybe I would have suspected something was weird immediately.

[urban forum]

To be fair, the Disney+ drop date was not the first release of the show. The first 2 episodes got a limited release theatrical showing the day before. And I think that the battle scene between Mae and Indara was shown during the previews at any of the 25th anniversary showings of The Phantom Menace.

[woven arrow]

The fight between Mae and Indara (or about 80 percent of it) was indeed shown after the credits on the TPM anniversary showing.

I was lucky and found time and a place to go see it.

And yeah I guess Wikipedia felt okay sharing a spoiler in the cast list because episodes had been aired in advance for select reviewers and the like.

[urban forum]

Lucky? They were showing it at the most run-down theater in my area. If that's any indication, you didn't have to be lucky.

[woven arrow]

I also had to find time in my own schedule. It was a busy weekend for me work-wise.

But you’re correct that

https://tenor.com/view/obi-wan-kenobi-star-wars-luck-no-such-thing-gif-7459156

[urban forum]

There's a mall about 2 miles from my house that is LITERALLY crumbling. Pieces of the roof fall out on a regular basis. Barely anybody shops there anymore. I go there almost everyday, because I find that it's a great place to catch Pokémon in Pokémon Go without being in the heat. But the small AMC next to the food court had the 25th anniversary showing of The Phantom Menace. I actually think they're still selling leftover merchandise from it. I guess that's what happens when nobody goes to your theater.

[urban forum]

That fight was probably decent in the theater, but honestly, I would have rather seen the most recent episode. Probably the next one even more. I'm not sure why they showed the first 2 in the theaters...

[woven arrow]

I assume to provide a big screen experience a day in advance of when both episodes would simultaneously drop.

For those who would be interested in that.

[urban forum]

I think it just causes too much trouble. Take your experience for example

[woven arrow]

I didn’t see Episodes 1 and 2 in theatres, I saw the 25th Anniversary TPM showing (with the after credits fight scene) in theatres.

[urban forum]

They should do it on the same day. I like the way they did it with Shadow Warrior from Ahsoka.

[urban forum]

I know. I meant your trouble with the spoilers.

[woven arrow]

Ah, I get you.

[urban forum]

Not that I got to see either of those showings... ☹️

[woven arrow]

I don’t know if they posted the twin spoiler info early because of the theatre release the day before, or if it had been there for a while because of select reviewers/test grounds seeing the first 2 or 4 episodes early.

[woven arrow]

I can be frustrating when there’s an experience not everyone can get to.

But I figure that Disney is trying to experiment with how to do balance theatrical releases with streaming in the future.

[urban forum]

Even if I had heard about soon enough, my mom never would have approved a trip to Disney Springs.

[woven arrow]

The entertainment powers that be are still trying to figure out the new dynamic with movies, ever since the pandemic made us all decide to stay home most of the time.

So they use Star Wars releases and anniversaries for testing.

[urban forum]

The crazy part is if it had happened a few days later, maybe she WOULD HAVE let me go. A few days after that episode came out, she discovered the Mando-verse. Now, she watches many of the new Star Wars shows with me. Not all of them, but she's been watching The Acolyte, because she likes murder mysteries.

Oh, that reminds me of an Ahsoka/The Mandalorian Season 3 theory I had. I'm gonna go post in whatever Ahsoka channel is for that.

[lethal berry]

Weirdly the first thing to get me into a cinema post-pandemic (not counting the one in the Denver Museum of Nature & Science for a documentary on Antarctic dinosaurs) was the table read of the first episode of the 1984 Transformers cartoon.

[woven arrow]

I can see that being a draw for those in the fandom.

I went back for Dune 1.

I felt that Shai Hulud deserved a big screen viewing.

[lethal berry]

Yeah, it was a real interesting thing for the curiosity value of it. A lot of places were charging full ticket prices for it and didn't get much uptake, but my local had tickets for £5 so we figured it was a reason to get out of the house at least.

[graceful nexus]

trailer subtitles ruined it right beforehand, too.

[urban forum]

Star Wars trailer subtitles can be wrong. I don't trust them until I actually watch the show. I know this is extremely trivial, but The Bad Batch Season 3 trailer mislabeled the clone who was speaking as CX-1. It was in fact CX-2. CX-1 had died in the prior season.

[graceful nexus]

that is fair, but in this case, it labeled them as Mae and Osha, so it turned out correct

[violet spire]

What a cliffhanger... this next episode is gonna be straight action

[mystic ore]

I was convinced the Quarren sea captain was feeding Grogu to a "Mama Quarren" and was deeply let down to find out the subtitles had actually clarified that it was a "mamakore".

Meanwhile, the official sing-along subtitles for Encanto are wrong everywhere, and it drives me absolutely bonkers.

[robust rain]

I hope so!

[wise flower]

Unless they punctuate it with another flashback episode

[violet spire]

Anything but pulling a Naruto, please don't pull a Naruto, I beg of thee!

[high granite]

I don't think I got far enough into Naruto to know what specific thing you're referencing, but I have blurry horrified memories of when Bleach suddenly stopped in the middle of a storyline and basically had the narrator say "now let's put the plot on hold for an extended flashback/filler arc".

[violet spire]

You could replace Naruto with basically every shonen anime out there lol

[royal niche]

I’m guessing the next episode will take us back and show us Sol’s perspective

[woven arrow]

It’s a 50/50 chance cube toss, but I feel like we’ll stay in the present for the next episode.

Since the pattern so far is present, present, past, present, to repeat the original pattern we would spend one more episode in the present before returning to the past.

That’s just my guess though.

[wet hull]

From Wikipedia: “In statistics, apophenia is an example of a type I error – the false identification of patterns in data.” 😆
I so hope you’re right though!!!!

[woven arrow]

Lol what’s it called when someone makes a correct identification of patterns in data?

[wet hull]

I guess it happens not often enough to warrant its own word. 😛

[royal niche]

I mean technically the meaning of data is recurring structures/patterns in a set of information (or dataset) 😁

So I guess the term would just be being right 😝

[frosty ether]

Jimmus thinks flashback, i'm hoping it'll be titled "Night" and is the continuation.

"seemingly" hmmmmm ambiguous for all the people thinking Qimir is the Master

[royal niche]

The spoiler-ish gif that shows up when looking for acolyte gif’s says to me they’re going to have a flashback of some kind to what happened, but who knows if it’ll be a full episode or just snippets

The one that shows || Kelnacca with black eyes and attacking Torbin ||

[frosty ether]

but does it say which episode it's going to come from?

cause my thought is we get the "Night" episode. most of them make it out of the forest alive, except maybe for those nameless Jedi they brought.

on the ship, Sol FINALLY tells us whatever secrets he's still keeping about what happened on Brendok

then flashback scenese

but i also haven't looked up the episodes list xD so no idea what's next

[royal niche]

It’s one of the few things in trailers/etc that hasn’t been shown, but no idea which episode. I’d like to think it’s a whole episode but we might just get like a PTSD flashback from Sol when he finally confesses

[mystic ore]

When someone says, "I'm going to explain everything to you as soon as we get back to safety," does that ever work out?

[tight thunder]

https://tenor.com/view/game-of-thrones-got-eddard-stark-sean-bean-chuckles-gif-13516194

[frosty ether]

i didn't actually hear him say that? i'm just guessing that someone is going to have to tell them what really happened and it's either going to be Sol, the Master, or somehow Koril is still alive.

[frosty ether]

that was another guess we considered too, but hoping the Night episode is going to be a pretty action packed 38 minutes (if they stick with the same time as Day)

[mystic ore]

He did indeed; he told Osha that he'd explain the whole story to her when they returned to the ship.

[frosty ether]

i was going on the fact that Kelnacca is dead now, so it can't be him anymore. it could be the Master, but i doubt we would get an unbiased story from him them (Jimmus has me at least considering the Qimir/Master theory, but don't want to assume xD).

[woven arrow]

I’m not sure we can get an unbiased story from anyone.

[lethal berry]

We also saw everyone get separated from Sol for a bit, which I'm sure was just thrown in there to cause more confusion.

[woven arrow]

Best case scenario we get truth tinged with subjectivity.

[frosty ether]

yea, i'm also considering that cause i still find it interesting that Sol mentions himself and Indara as "Osha's protectors" without mentioning the other 2. so.... maybe he sprinted her off in the ship first? but theories haha

[frosty ether]

of course. i think that in general story writing, the unbiased one should come first and lead to some misunderstandings before they give Mae or Sol's side. make it more dramatic and angsty xD

[lethal berry]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlA9hmrC8DU

It'll be like this.

[frosty ether]

please yes xD

[lethal berry]

For those who haven't seen the movie... yeah that's the ending, but don't you want to know how it gets there? Because I sure did.

[hollow night]

Between that movie, Men who stare at goats, and o brother where art thou, it put George Clooney very high up on my list of favorite actors 😄

[tight thunder]

I can't wait for this season to end with everyone going back to Coruscant all happy and alive.

[royal niche]

Ah men who stare at goats, I thought it was great/funny, but no one else in my family did. Maybe just because I have a dude-crush on Ewan

[lethal berry]

I found it a little tedious for some reason. Can't remember why though. Should revisit it.

[ember musk]

For the love of God please divert expectations for real this time disney

It cannot be this obvious

We need mommy maul under that mask!!

[fading swift]

This discussion has been brought up many times before and no good comes from it.
Keep Calm and Star Wars on.
https://tenor.com/M7IR.gif

[mystic ore]

(subvert)

[blissful bear]

Ooo… just thought of a theory… maybe the Sith is just a force spirit, and it possessed Mother Koril.. and now is possessing Qimir

But it comes and goes.. so its not possessing him initially, but does after Mae walks away.

And then maybe.. Exar Kun…

(Since in legends he was able to become a force spirit)

[sturdy fossil]

Mommy Maul Rules 🔥🔥

https://tenor.com/view/mother-koril-the-acolyte-margarita-levieva-star-wars-brendok-gif-12738517818331619478

[bold owl]

If they bring Exar into canon they'd better bring his saber with him... Not this boring single bladed red crap!

I could also see the helmet being like a Darth Momin thing and possessing its wearer

[blissful bear]

Just a theory. Im still leaning towards moma koril. Since she was also a witch, it would leave an opening for her to be the baddy, yet not necessarily alert the jedi that the sith are around (.. a witch corrupted by the dark side… who happened to have a saber she bled from a Jedi)

Do we have a normal lifespan for munn? He could be Plageus as the young apprentice to koril. Or her master, using the dark side to prolong his life… until Sheev

[grand oxide]

I'm still struggling to understand how a Jedi master dies in his chair without a fight

[bold owl]

I imagine that will be revealed. Did he not put up a fight? Why not? Did he recognize the assailant? Did smileyfacetoothyman use the black eye mind control thing on him?

[sturdy fossil]

If he used that Black Eye witch trick on that Wookiee than that’s just crazy OP 😳

[buoyant lark]

He could have also uhh... let himself be killed like Torbin did. He had been self exiled for over a year and doing crazy wall sketches.

[royal niche]

Yeah no signs of a struggle, he either unalived himself or let it happen

[grand oxide]

Which makes no sense

Also Mae gave up her hatred way too fast

The show is kind of falling apart for me here. Lots of things not making sense or poorly executed

[royal niche]

If they don’t explain it I’d agree, but it seems they’re working up to a big reveal of why Torbin and Kelnacca chose those deaths

[outer birch]

I’m pretty sure this is because she found out her sister is alive. Previously, she thought the Jedi killed her.

[grand oxide]

Still, 16 years of built up hatred and anger doesn't go away just like that

[outer birch]

I believe the love for someone will definitely destroy that hate.

That hate was tied to her sister being dead.

[buoyant lark]

She even had hesitancy in the previous episodes. She says that Osha being alive changes everything because all of her hate was based on Osha being dead.

[grand oxide]

This is part of my problem with the format of these shows 32 mins and 8 episodes is extremely short. Most modern shows are an hour long and 10 episodes

[grand oxide]

Yes, eventually

How long did it take Vader to come back to the light? Years, and the near death of his son

[outer birch]

I get that not everyone loves the format. I personally love how is keeping all of us guessing with so many theories. For me, it’s what I expected from a SW murder mystery.

[outer birch]

We don’t know how into deep to the dark side Mae is. She couldn’t even kill the bar keeper once she saw the kid. Vader was really into deep.

[wet hull]

Evil Zabraks is so 2000’s.

[royal niche]

The slow drip of information about a million questions is what I love, but yeah I also get that it’s not everyone’s bag

[outer birch]

That’s what I love about SW, there’s something for everyone.

[woven dagger]

Vader gave up the Darkside in just a few seconds.

[grand oxide]

No it took years after learning his son was alive before he turned back

[woven dagger]

Didn't stop him doing a LOT of murderin' once he discovered, in fact what he wanted was to take over the galaxy with Luke and carry on being super evil. It wasn't until Luke was being tased by the Emperor he went 'Imma throw this **** down that hole.' 'Yaa saved!'

[grand oxide]

You're proving my point. Mae was like oh Osha is alive! Back to the light side, let's join the Jedi. Vader didn't start to turn until RotJ. You can see it start when Luke turns himself in

[woven dagger]

Proving what point?

[grand oxide]

That you don't just abandon 16 years of hatred and anger in seconds

[woven dagger]

Are you reading what I posted? I said, and firmly belive that Vader was 'saved' at the very last second it was the threat of loss of Luke that made him have that SUDDEN realization he'd spent the last 20+ years being, frankly, a bit of a *#@&. He DID give up years of hate in a second. SO I DON'T agree with you that you can't give up years of hatred in a moment. In fact I would contend that most people in the real world give up hate in an instant, an instant of realization that there is another way.

Maes hate appears to be based on one fact, Osha is dead, when confronted with the truth, having some sembalence of emotional maturity she is able to realize she is wrong.

In terms of a short run 8 episode series.. be kind of weird to have a long drawn out emotional journey where maes eventually comes to terms with past events. I personally much prefer the fact the next thing we get to see Is Jedi and Sith having a massive rumble... not some soul searching introspection.

[graceful nexus]

Even in a short season, they are giving us a character that is capable of growth when faced with a new truth that changes her worldview. Not everyone is capable of that introspection.

[scenic palm]

At first I thought it was a trick because of the speed of it. Now processing it more we don’t know what experiences Mae had to get her to this point. And the enemy of my enemy is my friend, not my BFF. I think there’s a chance we can understand her more in the episode. That’s not to say that they didn’t screw up. Also who knows what had to be cut to keep it to this run time.

[grand oxide]

If they were cutting stuff they probably shouldn't. These shows are already way under standard run times.

[scenic palm]

None of us work for Disney. We don’t know why these times are set or what is being cut.

[grand oxide]

Sure, my point is that they are barely longer than clone wars episodes. Ep 4 was 27 mins in a show with 8 episodes. I just don't get it.

Think about how much more character development we could be having with 25 more minutes an episode

[scenic palm]

🤷🏻‍♂️ I wish they were longer too. There’s probably a reason behind it not.

[royal niche]

I feel like everything she’s learned from Smiley has been literally at the end of a lightsaber tip, either do this or die. If it’s a choice between someone who will kill me or someone who might take mercy, I’d choose the latter

But she hasn’t seemed to be incredibly terrified of Smiley, she only seemingly worried about keeping it a secret the method she used to kill the Jedi, and then betrayed him/her at a drop of a hat

[wraith vessel]

Remember when shows lasted 18 to 22 episodes? Anyways money and production rates yadda yadda. It sucks.

This show however is definitely fun. And I'm ready to see Smilo Ren kill some jedi!

Whoa I don't know where that came from. Sorry.

[royal niche]

I do miss the days of red shirts dying to styrofoam boulders, but I’d say I like the balance they’ve struck now with practical and cgi

The nice thing about those long seasons is it allowed shows to find their footing, or in Star Trek lingo, grow their beard

A lot of really really good shows didn’t get that really really good until the 2nd or 3rd season

Now, shows struggle to get a 2nd

[wraith vessel]

https://tenor.com/view/morticia-addams-gomez-adams-addams-family-cemetery-gif-5680693

Rest in peace dear shows of length.

Forever in our hearts until we dig them up for rewatches.

These shorter shows do make for easier rewatches! I love seeing these Acolyte episodes multiple times.

[royal niche]

lol yeah true, I watch episodes and then come here to chat about them while I rewatch them once or twice more

[lethal berry]

I love that she appears to have scarification lines on her face as well as tattoos. It says real interesting things about Zabrak society.

[outer birch]

Now I’m more excited for the next ones!

[tight thunder]

That seems to be the big thing nowadays. I miss 20 episode seasons where you got a few episodes of "filler" that was actually character development. I try to imagine shows like Deep Space Nine cut down to these episode lengths and while, yes, sometimes that would work out fine, we'd probably end up losing episodes like "The Visitor" and "Hard Time." Amazing episodes in their own rights, but don't really push forward an overarching narrative. It's a double edged sword and we kinda have to deal with it. That said, I feel like the pacing of the past few shows(Ahsoka, Bad Batch S3, and The Acolyte) are definitely some of the better paced SW content since Mando S1.

[ember musk]

Vader was at least shown conflicted multiple times and took an entire movie right up until the end to turn

Mae's last conversation was that she pulled an anakin with " I HatE yOu " which was her own "I'll kill you"

She never actually spoke to her yet, which jeremy jahns made a good point of maybe she should do that cause osha was ready to abandon her lol

Way way way too rushed for a "turn"

[woven dagger]

I dont think the spikes will fit under the mask

[ember musk]

Maybe it has some sick foam padding cut outs 🤙🤙 lololo

[tight thunder]

We do NOT know the full story about what happened the night of the fire. I'm not 100% convinced that Mae was the one who locked Osha in the room.

[ember musk]

I mentioned her own statement not action for my example cause I agree, but regardless she still wanted to kill her

[bold owl]

children often say things like "I hate you" because they don't know how to regulate their emotions yet

[wraith vessel]

My biggest childhood regret was telling my younger brother I was going to throw a chair at him. I even carried a chair to the room.

Did I do it? No. But I scared him. And it still makes me cry.

He doesn't remember it though.

[fading swift]

This discussion has been brought up many times before and no good comes from it.
Keep Calm and Star Wars on.
https://tenor.com/M7IR.gif

[scenic palm]

Let’s find insight in the story not flaws or mistakes in the show

[snow dew]

Please. Stop. Bringing. Up. The. Same. Topic. You Don't Like The Show. We Get It. There are a thousand other channels and conversations to be in.

[mystic ore]

As far as Mae turning back from the dark side...I'm not sure we've even seen her use the dark side. I'd kind of say she's been operating in a fairly neutral place. A mission of vengeance, but she thinks it's justice.

[wraith vessel]

Just ice.

Tuesday is so far away. I want to see them now.

[scenic palm]

Many years have gone by from he being a kid to what we saw in episode 4. Who knows what happened. Traumas or traumas(little t). Experiences.

[mystic ore]

One thing that's clear is that she seems to let go of anger more easily than Osha does.

[wraith vessel]

Ooo

[toxic glacier]

This is funny timing because it looks like the topic that's beating a dead horse is peli regretting threatening her brother with a chair

[wraith vessel]

That's very interesting.

[outer birch]

This is exactly what I think is going on. I don’t see her on the dark side as other characters. Also, everyone is different.

[wraith vessel]

It fits. Lol

Let the guilt go!

[toxic glacier]

I can relate tho fr I have so many little regrets I can never forget

[mystic ore]

Please don't beat a dead horse with a chair.

[royal field]

Bot was a little slow on the uptake...

[outer birch]

Interesting point! 🤔

[royal field]

#BlameGrim

[toxic glacier]

Lol yea not calling it out it was just funny

[fringe owl]

you’re a slow uptake...

[scenic palm]

😂

[toxic glacier]

Damn bot is savage today

[wraith vessel]

Tbf some are good to remember because they teach us. Like that one reminds me to be mindful of my anger.

[toxic glacier]

True!

[outer birch]

BOT was relaxing on Sunday and we are making it work. 😂

[wraith vessel]

Anyways Osha and Mae.

[royal field]

Uhhuh...

[outer birch]

49 hours and 47 minutes till I can see Osha and Mae again

[ember musk]

She did murder 2 jedi masters tbf

[royal field]

Not like you're counting or anything

[mystic ore]

She murdered one.

And from her perspective, she defeated her in combat.

[outer birch]

Naahhh 🤪

[scenic palm]

At that was just handing him poison

[mystic ore]

Torbin wasn't a murder at all.

[scenic palm]

A person that she felt was the cause of the deaths of her people.

[scenic palm]

Courts would think differently… 😂

But it’s a different type of murder

[outer birch]

Exactly! Not like Anakin killing all the Tusken women and children.

[scenic palm]

But also they are trying to make this a mystery-ish series. So there’s stuff we don’t know about

[royal field]

Anakin: Murders People.
People: OH WOW ANAKIN IS SO DARK.

Mae: Murders people.
People: OH SHES TRASH WTF.

Make it make sense.

[outer birch]

Soooo many stuff, that now I can’t wait for 49h 41m to pass. 😂

[scenic palm]

Also fun fact “women are almost four times as likely as men to use poison” so you might not want to upset some of the people here… 😆

[ember musk]

"A person is guilty of
manslaughter in the second degree when he intentionally causes or aids
another person, other than by force, duress or deception, to commit
suicide."

[scenic palm]

We are just saying stabbing him vs handing him poison is different

[outer birch]

It’s less messy and everyone needs to eat and drink. 😜

[ember musk]

No I gotchu, just gotta give credit where credit is due LOL

[scenic palm]

So it’s different, but it’s not?

[mystic ore]

Yup. Manslaughter, but not murder. And that's by our law; who knows what theirs is.

[woven arrow]

We do now have a narrative pattern with the Brendok Jedi where every cause of death is a different thing.
Indara, throwing knife
Torbin, poison
Kelnacca, lightsaber

Sol…

No idea

Possibly will not be killed with a weapon

Possibly won’t be killed at all?

[outer birch]

You got me stressing about Sol’s possible death. I’m not ready!

[woven arrow]

Lol sorry, I didn’t mean it!

[outer birch]

He will definitely die at some point, but 😭😭😭

[ember musk]

Is 'taking out" 2 jedi masters more accurate?

[woven arrow]

We can list the ways he probably won’t die, if that would help.

It probably won’t be a root canal

[tight thunder]

For the record, not every murderer is a Sith Lord lol

[outer birch]

😂

[mystic ore]

Sure! And we've seen corrupt Jedi Masters taken out before, so we'll see what the unfolding mystery reveals.

[ember musk]

The OG comment was dark side not sith so just saying she's not a good person atm

[tight thunder]

Someone who does bad things CAN come to regret them. But we'll see what happens next. I don't thinkMae is out of danger just yet.

Darth Smiley didn't show up for no reason.

[ember musk]

Just want to be clear, I'm good with her turning, just wanted it fleshed out, just knowing she's alive was rushed that's all

[royal niche]

Help create names for all these Jedi, the two between Sol and the Kel'dor I've nicknamed "the clones" since they look exactly alike lol

The guy on the end sorta looks like Simon Pegg

[ember musk]

Need Homelander to save Sol

[mystic ore]

uh.

[royal field]

Homelander and save do not belong in the same sentence.

[ember musk]

He saves all the time!

For the cameras

[lethal berry]

The guy to Jecki's ~~left ~~ right seems pretty unimportant. We don't need a name for him.

[graceful nexus]

Padme, this is his second genocide

[graceful nexus]

Ensign Jedi Ricky. All of them. 'cause they gonna die

[royal niche]

They did name the lady next to Yord, Master Holden

I’d call the guy on the end Shaun of the Jedi

I don’t wanna call the kel’dor on the other end Not-Plo, but it seems most apt

[wraith vessel]

I'm dying laughing. I relayed it to hubs.

[lethal berry]

Ko Ploon?

[fringe acorn]

Ithia Paan is the Kel Dor’s name

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Ithia_Paan

[royal niche]

Interesting, I didn’t see that name in the credits

[fringe acorn]

Was not in the credits at all. Someone asked on the official SW account on X and they responded.

[royal niche]

Interesting, cool

[sturdy fossil]

I never seen Hondo mad before lmao

[graceful nexus]

constant negativity is cutting into his business

[woven arrow]

So do we think one of these probably-doomed Jedi characters could be the many times great aunt or uncle of Rick the Door Technician?

[graceful nexus]

exactly

[woven arrow]

My headcanon is that Rick is related to Matt the Radar Technician.

So why not these Jedi to them. 😂

[graceful nexus]

all in all, it's a really small galaxy

[royal niche]

Nah, one of the clones is Wade’s relative

That’s what makes his death in the Obi-wan show so impactful

[woven arrow]

That would explain why ||Wade joined the Path||.
Compassion and the urge to help others ran in his bloodline.

[woven arrow]

RIP Wade

[royal niche]

Pouring out a blue milk for my homey

[woven arrow]

Wade: being absorbed into the Force “I hope my actions made a difference.”
The Force: “You totally did make a difference! Look, here’s a list I keep of all the people who I allowed to die in order to up the stakes for the survivors. I’m adding your name to it.”
Wade: “Wait what.”

[royal niche]

The force was like “sorry, you were part of Obi-wan’s plot armor, but thanks for taking one for the team”

[woven arrow]

🫡

And the same to these fine Jedi who bravely traveled to Khofar.

And now have to make like Arnold Schwarzenegger and survive in a jungle from an attack by a creature in a helmet.

[royal niche]

Vern and KAM standing on the departure platform waving them off while saying “some of you may die, but that’s a sacrifice we’re willing to make” 😂

“As long as the council doesn’t find out about this mess”

[woven arrow]

Vernestra: light-whips the mission records into pieces

Vernestra: What mess

[royal niche]

https://tenor.com/view/it-does-not-exist-doesnt-exist-if-an-item-does-not-appear-in-our-records-does-not-appear-does-not-appear-in-our-records-gif-26247881

I know Vern keeps blaming the need to cover it up on politics, but it still feels like there might be some hard asses on the council that she’s afraid of their ire for bringing negative attention to the order

Like, I really don’t want to be on Yoda’s bad side, fix this Sol

[woven arrow]

There’s also been speculation that HR book content will provide more details for why Vernestra would want to avoid getting the council involved.

It could be that she doesn’t want to get on their bad side, but it could also be that she feels like she can’t trust them to do the right thing.

We know Vernestra has a good connection to the force based on her feelings about a shift/concern for Mae.

[royal niche]

Was/is it explained in the books/etc why she’s not on the council?

[woven arrow]

Not to my knowledge.

What I’m wondering is if she sees/senses that the Jedi Council is starting to follow their own will rather than the will of the Force, and that’s why she wants to avoid them.

[lethal berry]

From just the show itself and not really remembering her from the books I've read thusfar... she might mean that she wants to prevent the Order getting bad press with the Republic and losing influence, and that's what she means by "politics"... or she might mean she wants to prevent herself getting the blame for that bad press, and thus lowering her chances of being on the council someday.

[bold owl]

In the books she's still a knight and in her early 20s.

[bold owl]

Spoilers for Temptation of the Force: ||she probably knows the Council asked Elzar Mann to become a member and she dislikes him so strongly she will never trust their judgement ever again lolololol||

[fringe owl]

You’re a Spoilers for Temptation of the Force

[wraith vessel]

Go to bed bot.

[coarse slate]

Spoilers for Temptation of the Force: ||nut buns||

[bold owl]

||NUT BUNS||

[last dagger]

||N U T B U N S|| are the new ORB. 🤣

[outer birch]

I need to catch on my reading 😭

[lethal berry]

There's just so much of it...

[royal field]

This

[bold owl]

only one book with ||nut buns|| tho (so far)

[bold owl]

did we accidentally start a new cult?

[last dagger]

https://tenor.com/view/robert-downey-jr-tony-stark-gif-26471287

[bold owl]

I mean that's on par for this server so.... oops? but not sorry.

[coarse slate]

At some point we may need to re-org into some kind of meta-cult that integrates all these things as tenets of The Cult

[blissful bear]

At least the chicken cult has been quiet for awhile

[coarse slate]

https://tenor.com/view/hei-chicken-crazy-moana-gif-7818013

[lethal berry]

Quiet or...

[outer birch]

Sign me up! Even though I haven’t read it yet. 😂

[brisk loom]

I think there's four reasons

1. No vacant seats. Because there aren't any term-limits to serving on the high council (life-long appointments), and a majority of said council consisted of long-living species, I'd assume an open spot was relatively rare. As far as we know, the galaxy was generally experiencing a time of peace after the Nihil but before TCW, which means the frequency/chances of Jedi (especially masters) dying was pretty low, as compared to casualty rates during times of war.
2. The selection process seems pretty...selective. To even be considered for an invitation to the high council was difficult, there's probably certain boxes that the candidate needs to check. This is partly the reason why the council was reluctant to invite Anakin. I do think eventually Anakin would've rightfully earned his spot on the council, but the Anakin we see in ROTS he was neither ready nor worthy of an invitation. There also seems to be a degree of politics/brown-nosing involved, which we've seen with Mace's appointment.
3. There's a massive shift of who Vern was in the books, versus the Vern we see in the Acolyte. This could be attributed to how emotionally draining the Republic-Nihil conflicts were for the jedi especially, and the wound such conflicts had on the force itself. The event of the Great Hyperspace disaster, and the grueling war that soon followed, has strong similarities to the ramifications of 9/11 in our galaxy. Our attitudes, beliefs, and ideals were permanently shifted, especially with how we interact with the world around us. The Jedi council may have sensed this shift in Vern, which ruled her out for being invited.
4. We don't know if Vern isn't on the high council. It isn't the first time we've seen members of the high council refer to the high council in third person. Someone we see doing it quite often is Obi-Wan, as well as Yoda on multiple occasions

[ember musk]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8eo5y6Iswz/?igsh=MWt0cmh3cGVudmV0Nw==

😂😂😂😂

charlie.hopkinson4

This going to make the force netherworld a tense place.
#starwars

Likes

44494

Instagram

[urban forum]

@royal field What does this bot react to? I'm seeing any obvious commands.

[urban forum]

Correction: 1 murder, 1 assisted suicide

[bold owl]

R5 isn't a reaction bot

They're a valuable part of the moderation team

[scenic palm]

https://tenor.com/view/kenobi-not-the-droids-gif-20035825

[fringe owl]

You're a They're a valuable part of the moderation team

[woven dagger]

Those were the fights I was waiting for!!!!!!!!!!

[graceful nexus]

https://discord.com/channels/478345594641973248/1254831206122655824

[ember musk]

I dont think the jedi gaf how it's classified

[timid oxide]

WTH I for one am shocked, SHOCKED, that Vernestra was not Darth Toothy Smile