The Acolyte - Episode 3 Discussion

[graceful panther]

XD this exactly. no underwear in space, then andor comes along and flips george the bird

i respect george for making all of this absolutely

[real shuttle]

Saving Luke was pretty selfish of Vader, really.

A proper Jedi would have been less emotional about it.

[desert breach]

That’s the point!

[real shuttle]

What, Vader dying eliminated all selfishness?

[waxen briar]

The issue we are dealing with now is a tapestry of literally hundreds of writers creating stuff, some horribly hack books, some good some awful comics, some recons, some good some bad. Obviously people can pick out of it what they want, what makes them happy BUT the original creator said what he said.

[desert breach]

Wait… what was this channel about again? What are we discussing here?

[real shuttle]

Bras.

[graceful panther]

it did stem from the acolyte so id say it still applies

[waxen briar]

The Acolye AND i think people differing ideas about the rights and wrongs of the jedi and the witches and WHY they all do what they dois a very valid conversation

[real shuttle]

It is. I think the idea that the Jedi way is just one perspective on what the Force is and how it works is a great addition to Star Wars.

And really, not even a new one. Just new to the general public.

It's been around as long as the Ewok Adventure.

[graceful panther]

like hell, the witches of dathomir used the force, they still had their own beliefs about it that were far different from the jedi

[waxen briar]

I mean obviously, not wanting to deal in absolutes, because that way leads to the darkside, we all undersstand I'm right and everyone else is wrong... right? ...right? (sounds of many light sabers of all colours lighting up behind me) Right?

[real shuttle]

As one.

[frank fable]

If we're taking moral lessons from a person and using the Jedi as an example of that, maybe the source material isn't that founded to begin with?

I love Star Wars but it's kinda dogmatic to take one person's idea and making it law

[real shuttle]

Especially when goofs like me have gotten to make bits of it up.

[frank fable]

If Lucas was always right we'd never have Grey Jedi. But to hold the assumption that you can either only be corrupted or pure is..... Hard to swallow

[real shuttle]

I'm sure George's own feelings on various subjects of canon have evolved over time, too.

[waxen briar]

I don't think the Jedi are pure, I think their training is to make them NOT corrupted.

[graceful panther]

exactly this. all the respect to George, but star wars has evolved past just his vision. if we only followed his way we would only have the original trilogy and the prequels. probably not even the clone wars series completely

thats not to say his say doesnt matter. but its also not to say no one elses matters either

[sleek island]

Wow! The thread was a LONG read, lol. I’m totally in love with this episode. The setting was perfect, the wardrobe, props, so many aliens, etc was chef’s kiss to me. I’m trying not to speculate too much since it’s a murder mystery and I want to enjoy the ride. What I DID noticed is that this whole episode was from Osha’s pov, so I’m hoping/expecting to see Mae’s pov and the Jedi’s pov on next episodes. I’m completely excited and I’m not going to look too much into socials and YT, because I don’t want anything to crash on my parade of happiness.

Mae’s horror face (on the bridge before falling) and asking Osha, what did you do?, has created a plethora of questions in my head. 😂

[graceful panther]

In regards to the episode, I’d say it’s rather obvious that Mae did not cause ALL that destruction. There’s no way that one little girl lighting a fire kills off the entire coven. Shits definitely not adding up. I’m fully expecting the Jedi had some hand in that beyond trying to rescue the twins

[waxen briar]

I think Maes actions were the ...spark, but how that affected the Witches and Jedi... Im interested to know.

[plucky sapphire]

My favorite Star Wars movie has always been the books, some of which George hated, so while I find his opinion interesting, I also don't take it as the be-all, end-all. The OT is only as good as it is because of the many, many contributions of people like Marcia Lucas, Carrie Fisher, Gary Kurtz, and so so so many others

[tidal crow]

yeah, my favorite SW content, at least for many years, was a collection of books and video games

[plucky sapphire]

With The High Republic, this is still 10,000% true for me

[real shuttle]

My one true canon is Yoda Stories.

[plucky sapphire]

FUCKING YES

[tidal crow]

so good

[plucky sapphire]

I love that game so much 🥹

I don't have my copy anymore and it honestly makes me so sad

[graceful panther]

Let’s not forget with revenge of the sith, George didn’t like yoda throwing his saber at the one clone. It took people telling him it would be cool (which it was) to be open to it

[graceful panther]

And now I’m in the dark about something

What is yoda stories?

[plucky sapphire]

An old old video game

maybe it's on the Internet Archive?

[fluid flare]

Balance is not equality. A body half dead and half alive is not balanced. A glass of half water and half poison is not balanced.

[manic hull]

The best video game.

[plucky sapphire]

https://archive.org/details/yoda_20220125

[left prairie]

It makes perfect sense that there would be all sorts of groups with varying degrees of force-sensitivity out there, and all sorts of interpretations of the why/what/how of the force. We got a little taste of that in Rogue One in Jedha

[graceful panther]

exactly!

and yeah sure the guardians of the whills seem like theyre pretty well aligned with the jedi but i am sure that they had their own beliefs as well, otherwise why would they not just be another arm of jedi

[plucky sapphire]

What I do find endlessly fascinating is tracing the stories and lore of modern Star Wars to bits and pieces from concepts Lucas discarded, drafts of the first movie, and the haphazard lore building that happened between 1983 and 1991 when Heir to the Empire really kicked off the EU and made it a Thing

[plucky sapphire]

We get more info about the Guardians in the Phase 2 High Republic comics!

[graceful panther]

i havent gotten into the phase 2 stuff yet unfortunately.

[plucky sapphire]

It's very good; highly recommend. Especially the comics and Path of Deceit/Path of Vengeance.

[graceful panther]

phase 2 takes place before phases 1 and 3 right? like around porters younger years if i read correctly

[plucky sapphire]

Yup! About 100 years before Phase 1. There is also a Porter comic that is excellent

(and introduces Barash Silvain, for whom the Barash Vow is named)

[graceful panther]

and she then proclaims herself as porters sister i think XD
mostly i skiped phase two because i found it jarring going from the nihil and starlight beacon story line to one well before that

i do entirely plan to come back to it though

[plucky sapphire]

Porter and Barash decided to be siblings when they were still younglings

[sleek island]

I just need to finish Phase 3 to go back and continue 🤣

[graceful panther]

im still getting through the eye of darkness

[wind sky]

Well, you could look at this new stuff as a more developed Biblical allusion: Anakin = Allusion to Christ, son of God ; The Twins = Allusion to Anti-Christ, evil (sith) copying the work of God.

[sleek island]

I’m also still crying about Kevmo. 😨

[plucky sapphire]

Personally SW as Biblical allusion never rang true for me

It feels too animistic to be truly Christian

But I know a number of Christians who find meaning in it and that's totally valid

[wind sky]

Doesn’t have to be Christianity. Many non-religious literature pulls Christian themes. I’ve never believed Star Wars to be Christian but it certainly has similar universal archetypes.

[graceful panther]

honestly. one could make an argument that star wars pulls from many real world religions

[plucky sapphire]

It does! But mostly Buddhism and animistic traditions

[steady spruce]

...

[plucky sapphire]

Universal archetypes are so interesting

And different interpretations of them are as well

[steady spruce]

How is it not Christian?

Wrong channel nvm.

Just intriguing how you can see the wiccan but not the christian.

[plucky sapphire]

I can see the Wiccan specifically in the witches we saw in this episode.

Jedi and Wiccans might share some similar beliefs, but they also are incredibly different. I wouldn't compare the two much beyond the fact that they revere an all-encompassing natural force/power

[plain quail]

It definitely seems closer to Buddhism to me. There is a lack of anything monotheistic or theistic at all

[graceful panther]

the jedi i can definitely see pulling heavily from buddhism

[frank fable]

The supernatural "Force". Religions don't need a God, persay

[plucky sapphire]

I'd actually argue for a Christian allegory Luke is much closer to the Jesus figure than Anakin. He is the equivalent of the dying and reborn god (Jesus). And he is the literal Son.

[graceful panther]

and even then, the force realistically could be its own deity

[plain quail]

But Abrahamic religions are literal and very specific when there are references to God

[plucky sapphire]

Certainly the Mortis arc in Clone Wars brought in more overt Christian symbolism with the trinity, but even that isn't specifically Christian

Religions are complex, long-lived mythologies/cosmologies that have been borrowing and outright stealing from each other since the dawn of time

But the use of those universal themes and archetypes that we see in most major religions is part of what makes Star Wars so resonant to so many people across cultures and religions.

[karmic valley]

Smoke inhalation in tandem with Carbon Monoxide poisoning (assuming their galaxy's sciences are somewhat similar to ours)

[sleek island]

As a practitioner of Tibetan buddhism, I definitely wouldn’t say heavily. It has some similar characteristics, but if it was heavily, lightsabers wouldn’t even exist.

[graceful panther]

hey i didnt say solely XD

[karmic valley]

I think it's better to view the chosen one prophecy as "The Force chooses whomever it needs at that particular point in time". I've always viewed the chosen one similar to the Avatar from the last air bender ngl. A conduit of the force used to further it's cosmic desires

[waxen briar]

For me, I think it leans more shinto that buddhist

[plucky sapphire]

Yeah, I said "animistic traditions" but shinto was the big one I was thinking about.

[plucky sapphire]

I like this interpretation!

[sleek island]

Great example

[karmic valley]

THANK YALL🥺I feel like it makes sm more sense! There've been thousands of chosen ones prior to Anakin who've somehow restored balance to the force, just as they'll be thousands more after him

[plucky sapphire]

new headcanon after this convo and Temptation of the Force: Elzar Mann is the chosen one

I will take no arguments

[frank fable]

Only when he masters all 4 sides of the Force

[plucky sapphire]

He's got the light and dark sides down

[left prairie]

and collects the 5 force stones

[karmic valley]

Thread bender fr

[lament violet]

Hey we don’t know exactly what happened at the end of Chapter 53

[plucky sapphire]

Temptation spoiler: ||now he's got the love side down||

[wind sky]

What other prophecy of the chosen one has there been in canon? Anakin is the only one.

[plucky sapphire]

oooh, thanks for reminding me to refresh AO3 again

[karmic valley]

I mean theoretically, whomever spearheaded the extinction of the sith a millennia prior to TPM would also be the chosen one

[left prairie]

I'm still on team Bendu.

[karmic valley]

Aka the lion turtle

[left prairie]

Bear moose

[plucky sapphire]

that's The Lion Turtle In the Middle to you

[plucky sapphire]

I mean we don't, but.... we do

[real shuttle]

There's always the mysterious thing about the Son of Suns.

[karmic valley]

Which could also be Luke

[real shuttle]

It could be almost anything.

Honest truth, I've always liked the swashbuckle adventure side of Star Wars more than the mysticism.

[plucky sapphire]

Bantha: chosen one confirmed

[real shuttle]

The Steak of Suns

[karmic valley]

My point exactly LMFAO prophecy ≠ truth. Prophecies are just a fancy word for spiritual theories, just like how scientist come up with theories @real shuttle

[real shuttle]

Gotta be careful about that one. A scientific theory is technically a near-absolutely-proven fact.

Maybe more of a hypothesis?

[karmic valley]

True but the core of a theory is to ensure it's falsifiable

Hypothesis is a better word!

Spiritual hypothesis

[mortal spoke]

So a scientific theory would be more like “Almost every SW fan who sees a Gonk says “Gonk” out loud.”

[real shuttle]

Gonk.

Aw, you got me!

[mortal spoke]

Gonk

Yes this theory seems very sound.

https://tenor.com/view/breakingbad-science-yeah-science-gif-5954775

[real shuttle]

Proven: power droids are the cows of the Star Wars galaxy.

[karmic valley]

Me and Gonk laughed at that

Wait till you hear the tale about the force sensitive droid who inadvertently aided in destroying the death star

[real shuttle]

In fairness, I also make mouse and probe droid noises when I see them.

Just don't ask me to transcribe said noises.

[karmic valley]

Reminds me of that vid of Anakin in ROTS speaking binary

[real shuttle]

Ha ha, oof, that was rough.

[mortal spoke]

…Skippy?

[karmic valley]

YERRRRRRRR MY DAWG

Glad to see he's live and well with Pelli fr

[real shuttle]

Or Mando. It was left a little vague.

[mortal spoke]

R5-D4 may go where he likes.

He is a hero of the Rebellion

And he overcame his generalized anxiety disorder to help Mando and defeat the snitching mouse droids.

Good job R5!

[karmic valley]

King shit me thinks

I'm so happy we're getting to see more nuances in their galaxy. I guess I never put much thought into it, but I had no idea that it was/is illegal for a non-jedi to train a force sensitive being

[tidal crow]

which is some serious bantha poodoo if you ask me

[karmic valley]

True, but it's interesting to see the jedi having codified it. It certainly stems from preventing the rise of the sith

Stomping it out before it even happens

[tidal crow]

yeah, it is very interesting

I like the world building

I just dislike the thing itself

[karmic valley]

EXAAAACTLY. It's the attention to detail that make their galaxy feel more alive

[karmic valley]

Yeaaaaah but I think it's a blanket law used to stop the bad apples from raising demi-god terrorists, which is what happened with Mae

Seeing how pretentious the jedi were in this episode was a tad bit irritating. Master Indara's arrogance was insufferable

[graceful panther]

^ agreed.

i love it

[next glacier]

Confirmed, just said Gonk

[sleek island]

Gonk gonk

[frank fable]

Gonk droid best droid

[tidal crow]

oh yeah, I understand why they have it, but it implies the Jedi feel they have some ownership in the Force, which they certainly don't

one of those, perhaps they are doing it for the right reasons but that doesn't make it okay

[mortal spoke]

https://tenor.com/view/meryl-streep-meryl-say-it-louder-say-it-louder-for-the-people-in-the-back-louder-gif-1100371679434362858

[next glacier]

But if you're not a part of their governmental entity, their laws don't (or shouldn't) apply. As Aniseya pointed out.

[karmic valley]

Very true. It does seem to be the lesser of two evils, but gate-keeping the force is bananas ngl

[karmic valley]

Yeah them tracking the coven to a non-republic world, trying to impose republic law, was just jaw-dropping

Imperialistic behavior me thinks

[next glacier]

Colonizer behavior.

[karmic valley]

Heavy on the colonizer part

[graceful panther]

likely this is a law they themselves put into place from when the jedi were running the republic no less

[next glacier]

"the Jedi have the right . . . " The hell you do.

[sleek island]

Good use of the word banana 🤣

[karmic valley]

"We stumbled upon what we thought to be an uninhabited world" ...master sol YOURE SUPPOSE TO BE MY DAWG😔DONT DO THIS TO ME MAN

[karmic valley]

LMFAOOOOOO

[mortal spoke]

The audacity

[graceful panther]

then sol reaching for his lightsaber to attack, and turning it into a gesture to show an impressionable child literally the coolest weapon in the history of cinema like "hey, join us and you get one of these 😉 😉 "

[next glacier]

Uninhabited. There's an entire town in a fortress, not just the temple, but go on then.

[sleek island]

It definitely creeped the hell out of me as a mom looking at Sol talking to Osha and lending her his hilt. How dare you give my daughter a weapon!!!

[karmic valley]

I can't even front I would've joined inna sec. They're giving out free neopixels? Where do i sign?

[next glacier]

Hands small, powerful child a deadly weapon

[tidal crow]

yeah this is wild too. like sure I would like to have that be me, but if it was my kid Jedi better GTFO

[next glacier]

I know Sol meant well, but Stranger Danger

[tidal crow]

for real

[sleek island]

This

[graceful panther]

did he though? dude was legit drawing his weapon to attack at first but then turned it into a learning moment

[tidal crow]

which I love that sort of sums up so many of the Jedi flaws....they're not trying to be malicious, but they get in their own way

[karmic valley]

"The jedi are slicing the platform" breaking and entering is insane LMFAOOO love me some high republic jedi but...this ain't a good look idk idk jedi PR team gonna be working overtime

[graceful panther]

so heres a thought, both parties are quite obviously in the wrong for forcing a belief system on one of the children clearly didnt want it, the witches for osha and the jedi for mae. why not just let mae stay and osha comes along XD they didnt need to take or leave both children

[karmic valley]

An ancient sith proverb once said: F*ck around, find out. Sol was on the Find Out part

[next glacier]

Imagine you're throwing a Quincenera or bar/bat mitzvah or Sweet 16, another country's Police Force shows up, says "oh, we thought this house was empty. hey, we think your kids would be a good fit though, we've been watching them, they'll be coming with us," hands the birthday child a loaded gun.

[graceful panther]

https://tenor.com/view/spit-take-drink-laugh-funny-thats-gif-11859512

[karmic valley]

(Idk bestie sounds like a dub for the birthday kid idk idk)

[next glacier]

and those are the good guys

[real shuttle]

From the Jedi POV, they couldn't leave either kid because it was their solemn responsibility to control all Force training in the galaxy.

[placid canyon]

https://tenor.com/view/giving-a-light-saber-sol-star-wars-the-acolyte-gifting-a-light-saber-star-wars-gif-7627899351121457893

Sweet gun huh?

[karmic valley]

I think it still stems back to stomping out the sith before it comes to fruition. The jedi are pretentious in believing that any force-sensitive being who is not trained to be a jedi is unpredictable. Ironically, this thought process is the jedi dealing in absolutes. Funny enough, I believe it's this interaction with this witch's coven on Brendok that causes the jedi to reconsider beefing with the Dathomirian Witches. Both are aware of each other's existence, and both seem to respect eachother's boundaries

[tidal crow]

I feel like it's Thanksgiving and we got a cornucopia of lore

[mortal spoke]

As God as my witness, I thought turkeys could fly the witch fortress wasn’t flammable.

[karmic valley]

TO BE FAIR: The thought of having a fully realized, force-sensitive, non-jedi running around the galaxy is concerning. Although this person may not be malevolent in nature, it's the unpredictability that concern the jedi

[graceful panther]

stone may not be particularly flammable but dust, vegetation, witchy shit and electronic very well could be XD

[karmic valley]

Those beings could use the force to commit unfathomable atrocities. They'd be labeled as demi-god terrorist. The jedi have those laws to stop such things before it happens

[placid canyon]

I mean considering how many wars had been fought leading up to that point because a Jedi went Sith, they had reason to fear trained force users

[karmic valley]

Again, Mae is exactly what happens when you don't enforce those laws

[valid phoenix]

Mae could also have been their own fault

[placid canyon]

It got so bad the Jedi basically ran the Republic for awhile with one of them being Chancellor

[next glacier]

She was torturing that butterfly before they showed up

That is not Normal Child behavior

[placid canyon]

Yeah I got sociopath vibes from that

[azure wyvern]

Torbin and his blood drawing ways: inject “OWWW” from Verosha and then a oh hi there, I just drew your blood sample….Even Emerie from Bad Batch is better than that. And that is reason enough to take a Barash vow 😉

[karmic valley]

Precisely. That was before she even began training to become a fully-realized witch

[valid phoenix]

neither is Anakin's multi year fascination with a woman he met once as a kid before meeting her again, but someone was willing to give him a chance

we don't know what the Jedi did to her yet

if they did or not

or what she was lead to believe they did because she thinks they'll kill innocents without a weapon

[karmic valley]

A small gripe of mine about this scene is that he somehow draws her blood through her sleeve? Small nit-pick but a lil weird

[graceful panther]

i mean in fairness they were told the tree was dangerous and it seemed like those creatures were going exclusively around that tree specifically

[valid phoenix]

bantu is the poison she used on Torbin, so the tree is def bad

[karmic valley]

Usually kids harming animals is a sign for severe sociopathic behavior

[waxen briar]

Virtually every serial killer got started on animals

[karmic valley]

Exactly!

[next glacier]

Could have been her finger.

[sleek island]

Definitely concerning. And she saw something that we haven’t seen that pushed her over the edge.

[karmic valley]

And the fact that Mae, when she didn't get her way, decided to fucKIN KILL EVERYONE? The scene when she tells osha "i'll kiLL YOU👺" i gasped so hard

[mortal spoke]

“Only if you eat it!”

[karmic valley]

(Sorry for swearing)

[waxen briar]

I wouldn't mind if the whole thing comes down to a giant misunderstanding caused by a kid who is... well shes evil.

[placid canyon]

I’ve said it before but that’s my belief, she timed the fire so both the witches and Jedi think they’re under attack

[sleek island]

A series of unfortunate events caused by a kid?!

[placid canyon]

And react accordingly

[valid phoenix]

still needs to be a reason for ||Kelnacca to attack Torbin on Brendok||

[placid canyon]

I said it last night @sleek island but didn’t want to tag you since you’d not watched yet, but I couldn’t stop seeing your face on the twi’lek witch lol

[valid phoenix]

cause either they came back later or that scene is a "What was going on while Osha was escaping" bit

[placid canyon]

If the witches think they’re under attack I imagine one thing they’d do is ||turn one Jedi against the others||

[sleek island]

You know it’s going to happen. I definitely got excited when I saw her. 🤣

[waxen briar]

They already in that episode have form for showing they can do it

[karmic valley]

Bro that scene was so cool

I can't stop thinkin about it

[valid phoenix]

maybe why the Jedi turn on them? idk.....

it's going to end up that the Jedi were barely involved and Torbin just has some paladin levels of guilt

[placid canyon]

I personally think they might get caught sneaking in

[karmic valley]

Torbin might've felt that the Jedi (absolutely) overstepped, which lead to the genocide of the last of an entire religion

All of those force-sensitive beings dying so heinously may have left a crippling scar in the force. All of which could've been avoided had the jedi just minded their business

[valid phoenix]

paladin levels of guilt xD

[waxen briar]

Torbin, maybe, like most people, just can't cope with having caused a death/s no matter what the reason.

[karmic valley]

Exactly

[waxen briar]

I don't think you need to be a Paladin to feel bad about it.

[valid phoenix]

it's a stereotype of DnD paladins

no, you don't have to be

[karmic valley]

All because one force religion has different beliefs than he and the jedi do. This same thing is explored in phase two of the high republic (rip my dawg kevmo fr f*ck marda)

[waxen briar]

ALl my Paladins were very much DIE UNBELIVER!!!

[left prairie]

And we don't know what Torbin might have seen or felt during that spell

[waxen briar]

All? I only ever played one...

[karmic valley]

Although the jedi didn't start the fire (it was always burning), they are inadvertently the cause of it

[waxen briar]

...since the worlds been turning...

[valid phoenix]

i think it's because people tend to go Lawful Good when playing paladins and then get all confused about what to do in a morally complicated solution, so they try to go for the most noble but it doesn't always go well depending on your DM 😛 like whatever the Jedi likely did to make Torbin say what he did.

[frank fable]

Or if he's actually released from it 👀

[left prairie]

I'm wondering if they are some kind of dark/light yin/yang force pair. Osha was so immediately drawn to the Jedi and had an instinctual aversion to deceit, where Mae was uninhibited and willing to do anything without much convincing

[karmic valley]

I was thinkin the same!

[valid phoenix]

Amanda, the actress, has alluded to such. she said Mae is the mysterious, dark, feminine energy of it and Osha is the bright, masculine energy

[waxen briar]

A dryad?

[karmic valley]

It could stem from how they were conceived. Which then implies (kinda a reach) that...qimri has an evil twin too..and that evil twin is...darth smileyface toothman

[valid phoenix]

i've suggested that if Rey and Ben are the real prophesized dyad, the in Dune metaphor, maybe Mae and Osha are ||Paul who came too early when the real Kwiastz is Leto II||

[karmic valley]

This reminds me: gentle reminder that the knowledge of conceiving beings through the force, which is implied to have been done by Mama with the creation of Osha and Mae, is now considered lost knowledge. This is not a plothole or a retcon, because the coven (and their beliefs + knowledge) were lead to extinction. In our galaxy, there existed maaaany now-extinct groups of people who we may never know existed in the first place

Which is why Palpy himself had trouble conceiving (and prolonging) life through the force. Had he discovered the knowledge of Mama, his own research could've been expedited

[frank fable]

They go into this a bit more in one of the Vader comics, I believe. They retconned that ||Palpy influenced Midiclorians to create Anakin. If the Force and the Thread are the same thing, they're essentially creating events that happened "before" even though they're added after. It sets precedence post-canon||

Maybe not retconned, but never previously explained, and only "recently" revealed

[karmic valley]

Ahh I see I see🤔when did we first see the theory of Anakin's creation between from Palpy and Plagues? Was it the Plagues novel? @frank fable

I really gotta read the vader comics smh

[frank fable]

Yep, currently wiped from canon ):

[karmic valley]

A part of me hopes that once Disney finally puts a lid on this era of star wars, they'll go back to re-review certain legends material (like plagues) and recanonize it

[frank fable]

The issue then sorta becomes, if Anakin isn't the "chosen one" that Palps and Plaguey created, who is this secret looming goodgood that rivals Anakin's darkness with light, the one that the Midiclorians created in their brattiness? Since we have Anakin, we know Palps succeeded where Plagueis and him failed.

[karmic valley]

Dave Filoni reading this rn fr he fighting the urge to say ahsoka

[karmic valley]

Nah but in all seriousness, this makes me wonder if the force itself is as benevolent the jedi have lead us to believe

[placid canyon]

I think it’s fun the fandom is having the same “from a certain point of view” moment Luke did

[waxen briar]

Sorry totally off topic, but I was just distracted by how good Qi'ra looks in a cape... The force benevolent? I think like gravity the force just is.

[mortal spoke]

The force clearly has its own will, and that will isn’t frequently concerned with the day to day suffering and thousand natural shocks that living beings endure.

I don’t think the force is very nice.

I wouldn’t agree with everything Kreia said, but I agree with her on that.

[mortal spoke]

It can be entertaining to watch an existential crisis occur in real time.

[frank fable]

To me that's what makes Sidious a fascinating character. Is it his power-driven ego that makes him want to control it? If it's meant to be one thing, like all the Jedi teach, why is it other things, too?

[karmic valley]

Ahh good point! The force seems to be less concerned about there being an imbalance, and more concerned that there is some mere mortal's desire to control/overpower the force itself

[karmic valley]

I think it stems from the manipulation of the force. The ways of which sidious interacted with the force was similar to a mere human trying to be God in our universe

[karmic valley]

It reminds me of that scene from JuJutsu Kaisen:

Sukana: you dare to actually touch my soul? ...I'll allow it this one time. There won't be a second time. Remember your place, foolish puppet

[placid canyon]

Even more exciting for you mods who got to deal with us kids 😝

[sleek island]

May the Force help us! 😂

[tidal crow]

https://www.starwars.com/news/spice-creams-recipe

“Get your spice creams!”

[placid canyon]

Quick, someone make some spice creams and tell us how delicious they are

[tidal crow]

I might try to make some tomorrow

[valid phoenix]

apparently the name is straight out of the galaxy's edge cookbook?

but isn't visually the same as the one from the cookbook?

[tidal crow]

Huh interesting, I don’t remember it from there

[west nebula]

Really coulda done with another ~10 mins on that episode, I’m hoping by the end of this show it doesn’t appear rushed

[valid phoenix]

https://youtu.be/Y15voYTlpoA?si=JK8PwHJ_PugbHahB

[sleek island]

OMG! I need to make this. 🤤

[azure wyvern]

I need to find my GE Cookbook!

[timber shuttle]

Nah for real lmao 😭😭
Ashoka is literally his Child

[rustic agate]

Darth Toofers

[desert breach]

One more thing: I find it utterly irresponsible by Sol to hand a lightsaber to an 8-year old!
“What does this knob do?”
“Don’t press that!! It’s…”
swoosh
“Oops, sorry! I’m sure that can be re-attached!”

[mortal spoke]

Maybe the safety was on.

[next glacier]

hey kid, you wanna be a cop? here, hold my gun.

[placid canyon]

I hope he doesn’t have a button switch like Qui-gon or Ahsoka lol

[tidal crow]

lol

[frail olive]

(Hands over 600 NE elephant gun) here… try this… 😁

[foggy sandal]

This feels like something a cop would actually do tho

A particularly dumb one

[mortal spoke]

In (slight) fairness, Jedi can see things before they happen.

So maybe Sol saw she wasn’t going to ignite it.

Maybe.

[placid canyon]

He at least followed rule 1 of lightsaber safety and wasn’t pointing the emitter at anyone

[next glacier]

In general yes, but these are little chaos force gremlins

[desert breach]

Observation: During the lesson scene the Zebrak hears a noise from the machinery thingy and looks that way. Are the Jedi there? Someone else? Something else?

[peak falcon]

We rewatched Ep 1 and 2 before watching 3, to refresh our memory. I fear that I'll want to rewatch 1, 2 and 3 before we watch episode 4, so I can keep an eye out for clues about the continuing mystery... And eventually I'll be watching the entire series in one sitting.

[steady spruce]

I mentioned this once. I was wondering if it was the set up for the fire. Sabatoge!

[mortal spoke]

Something was up with the machine. Not sure who’s behind it.
(General wear and tear could also be behind it, not just people)

[steady spruce]

Someone on twitter also mentioned mother Koril is not shown amongst the bodies.

And that someone who looks like Qimir is in the marketplace.

[mortal spoke]

I thought I saw her body but now I’m not so sure.
There was a lot of purple robes.

[steady spruce]

Acolyte Twitter fans are detectives.

Time for a 3rd rewatch! Because I didn't pick up on either.

[mortal spoke]

About Qimir though: Manny Jacinto is currently in his late thirties. So unless Qimir is using the force and/or Space La Roche Pose to keep himself looking younger than he is, he would have been in his very early twenties sixteen years ago when the coven was destroyed.
So he would have started on this project very young.
Still entirely possible, but relevant to consider.

[mortal spoke]

We kind of have to be!

Because this is a mystery

A glass onion, if you will

[steady spruce]

I prefer Clue : p

[mortal spoke]

Well Clue is funnier.

Though we don’t know yet if Clue has more crazy running than The Acolyte.

We’ll have to see.

[steady spruce]

I AM happy to see this thread still going. It was a great episode filled with A LOT. My favorite so far.

An aside: My favorite mystery is The Murder of Roger Ackroyd. I got to read it in college.

[peak falcon]

I know it would be totally tonally inappropriate but a Clue-style "Or maybe it happened like this!" multiple ending for Acolyte would be amazing.

[mortal spoke]

Lego Star Wars should make an Acolyte parody and do exactly this.

[tidal crow]

LEGO Star Wars should start by making sets from all these great locales

[desert breach]

Unless LEGO gets a grip on their prices they can do whatever they want (this is from someone who has half a basement room full of LEGO boxes… mine, not my son’s).

[tidal crow]

Oh same

[desert breach]

I like the end credits music a lot. Like a mix of Asian and medieval Europe?
Overall the music is good. It reminds me a lot of the OT score.

[next glacier]

I do wish more shows did the storyboard art like Mando does

[timber shuttle]

Right! I was like oh…. this chick is evil asf lol and I still don’t understand how they all sudden died like that either.

[karmic valley]

SWEAAAAAAR IT WAS MAD SINISTER. And bro I'd assume their deaths are due to smoke inhalation (specifically, a severely burned airway due to intense heat exposure + any harmful chemical irritants mixed within the smoke). They seemed to be pretty close to where the fire blazed, and were caught off guard, which didn't help their odds of survival. I also wouldn't have put it past Mae to also somehow trap the coven in that meeting room, which presumably meant no proper ventilation. Interestingly, this was eerily similar to what Anakin's fate would've been if Palpy was a little late to his rescue. If any of the coven were somehow lucky (or perhaps unlucky) enough to survive, they'd most likely needa marinate inna kolto tank (fun fact: bacta was just starting to become more accessible and popular in the galaxy during the High Republic) or they'd need a suit similar to Vader's with an internal ventilator

TLDR: We pretty much let Mae cook and now the whole coven is cooked😔

[timber shuttle]

Yeah idk but I guess no more Witches for right now.

[tribal pilot]

Or at least post a gallery of it to the website. Jeez, Star Wars… show us some love plz!?

[frail olive]

https://tenor.com/view/monty-python-holy-grail-witch-gif-6657759

(Sorry… had to… )

[rustic agate]

This is my only complaint. Once again the witches are slaughtered. Why can’t we have witches just minding their business and living their best lives?!?

[placid canyon]

Tales of the Empire spoiler: || the mountain clan on Dathomir should still be going strong ||

[mortal spoke]

“Should” 😬

[placid canyon]

Yeah

[mortal spoke]

I mean I hope so

[placid canyon]

Me too

[rustic agate]

Me as well.

[south roost]

They're fiiiiiine. All totally fine. Having a great time with me here, just out of frame.

[mortal spoke]

https://tenor.com/view/phew-gif-2182181881406902103

[steady spruce]

So I've watched this one three full times now.

[plain quail]

I've seen each episode twice so far and might need to watch this one again. There are a lot of small hints that there is more to the story than what we saw. I feel like we're going to see that night again from Mae's perspective.

(and larger hints in the other two episodes)

[plucky sapphire]

My family is visiting so I've only managed to watch episode 3 once! The gall of them, getting in the way of my Star Wars!

[mortal spoke]

Make them watch with you.
“We don’t understand what’s happening.”
“No one does right now, it’s a mystery show!”

[plucky sapphire]

I wish! My dad and mom would, but my brother just has no interest in it. Which is fine ( 🔪 )

[tidal crow]

Just stay awake and watch when everyone is asleep and be perpetually behind on sleep

[plucky sapphire]

But then that would cut in my reading time 😭

[south roost]

Stay awake longer to catch up on that!

[tidal crow]

This is me every night: okay everyone is asleep I can read, or watch, or play a game, or Lego, or or or orrrr

[left prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/clockwork-orange-stanley-kubrick-cult-gif-5292170

there's always a solution

[plucky sapphire]

That feels like it would take a lot of effort

Kicking them out would be easier, probably 😂

[polar nexus]

I know, creepy AF. I wondered, though if she's being manipulated by someone.

[next glacier]

I don't think she was being manipulated at the bunta tree. that's just her.

[polar nexus]

I actually wondered if she'd been manipulated for some period of time, either by someone in the coven or an outside force. She was giving off "abused child does bad things to other children and animals" vibes to me.

And that the person manipulating Mae was also responsible for the witches' deaths - not the little fire she started or the Jedi.

Which is why Mae is screaming "What did you do?" at Osha.

[south roost]

I'm not 100% sure that it's an accurate representation of what happened.

I would not be surprised if we find out that positions were reversed and it's actually Osha who set the fire.

[mortal spoke]

By slicing the circle vent to get it open, you think?

[south roost]

No, for the entire flashback.

[polar nexus]

The person could be Koril or an unknown third and bad actor.

[south roost]

Every time it says "Mae" it was actually Osha, and every time it says "Osha" it was actually Mae.

Osha thought she wasn't going to be allowed leave, wrecked the place, got to leave and be a Jedi. Whatever got her to do that also leads to her being rumbled as "bad at Jedi" and leaving the order.

Wild speculation on my part, to be clear.

[mortal spoke]

Ok so the idea is that the story we watched in episode 3 wasn’t “true and missing parts” it’s “true in parts but then Osha peacefully packing and then crawling through a vent and then being rescued by Sol was not actually what happened”.

[mortal spoke]

I agree it’s speculation, but speculation is all we’ve got. 😄

[south roost]

Or it's mostly true, but the confusion is from where Osha couldn't rationalise it having been Mae that was at fault.

[valid phoenix]

finalllyyyyy haha i keep saying she's definitely a psychopathic yandere, but i'm curious as to why.

why does Mae think the Jedi are evil, but Osha doesn't when they were raised together? why does she insist the Jedi kill innocents? was the Master a means to her revenge or did the Master find her?

Jimmus and i were talking about this morning and we even considered: what if the Master led the Jedi to the coven (because they were in exile outside of the Republic, so who told the Jedi anything worth investigating), manipulated the whole coven extinction, all to get the girls in the chaos?

[polar nexus]

Right. Is it explained how the Jedi even knew Mae and Osha were there? Or was their presence all part of a larger scheme?

[valid phoenix]

they were told that the coven was training children and i think that's all we know so far.

we don't know who or how they found out.

[polar nexus]

Suspicious!

[south roost]

If they're magic force babies that has to have rippled somewhat.

[cloud salmon]

I think it was absolutely the Jedi who killed some or most of the witches

[valid phoenix]

did Anakin's?

[karmic valley]

Ooh so maybe we've only seen the flashback from the perspective of Osha? I dig this. Could muddy certain things but i dig it

[karmic valley]

It seemed to be implied that because of continued persecution (assumed to be carried out by the Jedi and/or the republic), the coven was on this mass exodus for some time. The Jedi we see in the episode may have been apart of some sort of Task Force assigned with both tracking and studying the coven's movements

[south roost]

Or we've seen it from Mae, because the person we think is Osha has been Mae all along.

[karmic valley]

The question would then be: why were the Jedi tracking/studying the coven to begin with? How familiar were they with the coven's beliefs and ideologies?

[karmic valley]

That'd be interesting! I dig the thought-process

Which reminds me: we still haven't seen the jedi task force's POV of the fire and the lead-up to it

[south roost]

Presumably this happens well after the events on Jedha that led to Tey Sirrek being friends with a Jedi.

[karmic valley]

The artifact liberator from phase II?

[south roost]

Yeah, that was 380-odd BBY, the Republic Fair was 231 BBY, and Acolyte has to be later than that because Vernestra Rwoh was Stellan Gios' Padawan.

So presumably they may have been known around 380-ish, but things on Jedha went exactly how everyone accused the Jedi of trying to make them go at some point.

[karmic valley]

Yeah I think The Acolyte story is the only HR event closest to TPM thus far fr

[karmic valley]

I'm unsure if the coven had any representation on the covocation on jedha

[mortal spoke]

I’m still feeling like Mother Aniseya’s coven is ||an offshoot of (or reformation/subversion from) the Path||.
So I don’t think they would have been at the convocation because they wouldn’t have existed yet?

[south roost]

You may need to be more specific about which organisation you are referring to there, since there are lots of ones with that name unfortunately.

[mortal spoke]

Which was the one that went to ||Planet X with Marchion?||

Because in the twins’ room there are some little blue stuffies, and one of them looks a lot like a toy version of ||a blue horse thing from Planet X||

[karmic valley]

Honestly after watching the episode I didn't see it, I could see it being an offshoot! The example you gave about lutherans and catholics changed my outlook fr. I'm still a bit on the fence because the ||Path|| firmly believed that any sort of manipulation of the force was a big no-no

[south roost]

Oh, the ||Path of the Open Hand||? They're definitely known to the convocation because ||they're the ones that showed up to cause trouble in 380-ish that leads to the story that Tey Sirrek is in||.

[mortal spoke]

Mother Aniseya did say “some [implying the Jedi] call it the force and claim to use it, but the it’s not a power that you wield”.

[karmic valley]

I think Alexis was referring to the Dalna-based sect of Path of the Open Hand. Not the children of the path or elders of the path we see a century later

[mortal spoke]

And then yes she does use it lol, but I think the idea is that for the coven the force is a destiny binding thread first, and a tool second.

[mortal spoke]

Whoever’s in this picture:

That’s who I mean.

[south roost]

Yep, that's the same ones.

[karmic valley]

Ahhh the Nihil. I believe Marchion had them throw that stuff on during their expedition to Planet X. Was kinda funny in hindsight

[mortal spoke]

Ok so they’re not actual cultists at all, just Nihil?

[south roost]

Yeah, those guys are the She'ar: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/She'ar

[mortal spoke]

This is what I get for not reading everything, and going on hearsay for other things.
Whoops. 😅

[south roost]

But since Ro is kind-of-sort-of associated with the Path... you're not 100% wrong.

[mortal spoke]

Ok so there’s still a possibility Mother Aniseya’s coven came out of the ||Open Hand or Closed Fist or…something…||
But my only Easter egg piece of proof is gone, so I have nothing to back it up with. 😛

[karmic valley]

Yeah just Nihil, but Marchion had them cosplaying as the Path. Was a little weird (i'm sure the pirates were weirded out but I doubt they'd question the Eye)

The more I think about it the funnier it gets cuz wtf😭LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Marchion's definitely ||Marda's|| great-great-grandson smh she the type to do some similar weirdo stuff

[mortal spoke]

Lol
Lourna Dee: Join the Nihil so you can do whatever you want!”
Marchion Ro: “Here put on these robes. This is not optional.”

[karmic valley]

LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HAS ME HOOOWLING BRO TOO FUNNY

[south roost]

There's a lesson there.

[karmic valley]

I would've bust out laughing in Marchion's face😭ain't no way bro

[mortal spoke]

I don’t feel like that would end well for anyone who did it.

Just saying.

[karmic valley]

Marchion: oh you think that's funny? I have another joke for you, Gray👺

fed to the leveler

[karmic valley]

I still think it's possible! The biggest connection for me is the swirls on foreheads. Both sects gave the swirl significant meanings. I think it's implied in this episode that the swirl on the forehead, for the coven, is some sort of witchy seal thing

[mortal spoke]

Always a potential hazard.

[karmic valley]

I do wonder if the convocation was still a thing even after the Battle of Jedha. Seemed like a good idea, especially with Jedha being this sorta mecca for the force

[south roost]

It was.

TBH if you haven't read the High Republic comics you really should because they are very very good.

[karmic valley]

It's on the list! I'm waiting for the omnibuses to drop. I've read all the adult and YA books tho! I just started Temptations of the Force

[south roost]

I started with the floppies back when Marvel took over and just read everything that they put out. Sadly the "Adventures" stuff I have to wait for the Panini UK reprints since due to "reasons" the Dark Horse published stuff doesn't get floppy releases over here.

[valid phoenix]

that's how i've always seen Ep 3. from the second Mae locks the door to Osha and Sol coming across the bodies, we don't actually know what happened outside the door.

where's the ||Torbin vs Kelnacca||?

where's ||Mother Koril's body||?

how did ||Mae get off Brendok?||

[karmic valley]

Ahh I see I see! I think because I've never been too into comics in general (aside from X-men), I wasn't in too big a rush to buy em. I definitely have a little bit of fomo😔

[karmic valley]

Good point! Very very good point!

Torbin fought Kelnacca?

And Torbin lived? Might be how he reached the rank of Master LMFAOOOO i kid i kid

[plucky sapphire]

Oh they were more than friends lol

[valid phoenix]

i think it's going to tie in to how he got his scar :3

[karmic valley]

Pshh I'd fold too if Vildar Mac looked at me the way he looked at Tey

[valid phoenix]

i'm still waiting for the Jedi to do something worthy of the Vow and his subsequent death.

[plucky sapphire]

I mean same tho lmao

[plucky sapphire]

Phase 1 omnis are out and Phase 2 comes out soon!

No announced omni for phase 2 Adventures tho, sadly

[karmic valley]

A part of me is holding-out on the idea that the Jedi didn't entirely do anything villainous after testing the twins. Were they wrong to stalk/harass the coven? Yes. Is breaking & entering cool? No. Do I think they wiped out the rest of the coven? Nooooooot reaaaallly

The Jedi have certainly done questionable things no doubt about it. But they seem to be morally good-natured

[valid phoenix]

i do find it interesting that when Sol talks about Osha's rescue, he specifically only states himself and Indara as her "protectors" even though there were 4 of them there. i'm wondering if they left first before some witchy nonsense started happening cause my theory is that that fight happens cause one of them is under mind control again.

[karmic valley]

If anything I think Torbin's guilt is due to the Jedi inadvertently causing Mae to start the fire, thereby killing the coven. If the Jedi task force never directly interacted with the coven and presented the twins with the opportunity to leave, Mae wouldn't have been motivated to start the fire in the first place

[valid phoenix]

agreed! cause of the origin story of the Vow, Torbin could just feel guilty about the genocide of the coven.

[karmic valley]

Exactly! Padawan Torbin seemed pretty uncomfortable with being there in the first place. His skittishness sorta reminded me of Kevmo's interactions with the Path

Both seemed to feel that the sect/coven were being painted in an unfair light, and that they shouldn't be persecuted because of having differing beliefs/ideologies to their own

[valid phoenix]

we need Kelnacca to tell us more 😭

i should just add "Mae Apologist" to my name xD

[karmic valley]

Ansley | Mae Apologist
Gray | Jedi Apologist

LMFAOOOOOO

[karmic valley]

Also too, I think Torbin may have been nervous to voice his opinions to Master Indara. She seems to have a holier-than-thou/condescending demeanor (referring to Mae as "my child", being able to recite republic laws word-for-word, the white lies, etc)

Her demeanor reminds me so much of Mace Windu

[valid phoenix]

manifesting it now: Mae or Osha sacrifices themselves for the other. i give you me and you give me you. some kinda Twin Force Dyad thing.

honestly, yea. if it wasn't Carrie Ann, we'd probably think she's uptight xD

[karmic valley]

I could see it! I think Darth Smileyface Toothman will offer Osha to join him and Mae, and I think Osha will do it. We know that the trauma of seeing her coven and her sister dying still haunted her. She may have felt that their deaths could've been avoided had she not settled on the idea of leaving

[valid phoenix]

we still don't know why Osha left the Order either. unlike Ahsoka, she is surprisingly defensive of the Order even though she left of her own choice.

[haughty cairn]

Well, they ARE played by the same actress in the non-flashback scenes. I think it was extremely lucky that they could find twins who were both actresses and still children at all. Look up those names. It's true. The children who played Osha and Mae as children are twins in real life, too.

[next glacier]

there are a lot of twins in acting, because having twins means you can double the working hours

children are limited in how much they can do, but having twins play one role means they can each do their four or six hours or whatever

[haughty cairn]

That's not what I meant.

[haughty cairn]

It appears that they used one twin for Osha and one twin for Mae. This is a screenshot from Wikipedia.

[next glacier]

I know, but I mean it's not "lucky" to find twins. there are a lot of acting twins because of the reasoning.

pretty much the entire TGIF lineup when I was a kid used twins.

[foggy sandal]

It's not lucky perse but they definitely did good casting em they're spot on

[haughty cairn]

I've heard people say that it's hard to find twins who are both actors. Do child actors who are twins not stay actors as they grow up?

[next glacier]

the casting was great

and no, most child actors don't stay actors

[haughty cairn]

Also, I just noticed the detail about Lee Jung-jae taking inspiration from Liam Neeson at the bottom of my screenshot. I hadn't really thought about it, but that totally makes sense! I see a lot of similarities between Qui-Gon and Sol.

Hey, what does this reaction mean?

Is that some sort of galactic credit?

[next glacier]

inspiration has "spira" in it.

which is the in-universe currency at GE

[haughty cairn]

Oh. I don't go to Disney, which is sad, because I live 15 minutes from the parks. I just don't have the money for it...

I also just got invited to this server, so I'm still getting used to all of the features.

[next glacier]

we have auto-reacts for a variety of things related to SW or GE, or sometimes just because they're funny.

[last trench]

Oops

[placid canyon]

This is the way

[next glacier]

Chewie

[crude oracle]

Orb

Credit

Huh. Credit doesn't trigger the auto-react. Must be credits then.

[south roost]

Spoilers!!!!!!! :p

[minor mauve]

Auto-react are at my whim only because no one has stopped me…oops

[plucky sapphire]

I'm pretty sure we encourage you

[minor mauve]

…there’s around 70 of them.

[plucky sapphire]

Eeek, sorry! Cavan had talked about it over a year ago so I just assumed it was common knowledge 🙈

[south roost]

Not for me, but for those who haven't read it yet.

[plucky sapphire]

This whole thread has been rife with THR "spoilers" tbh. I'm putting that in scare quotes because I am pretty sure everyone has still been following general server spoiler guidelines.

Though this is perhaps a good moment to remind everyone that comics should be spoiler tagged for 1 month after release and books for 6 months.

[south roost]

I am being a smidge silly about what counts. I'm pretty sure that book is a year out at this point.

[rugged furnace]

Just odd to do the Parent Trap treatment for the grown up sisters and not the child sisters. Like, I’m happily suspending my disbelief, but just an interesting choice

[next glacier]

children are limited in the number of hours they can work, so using twins means they can film together scenes at once, instead of twice, with the rehearsals and such that go along with that.

[real shuttle]

It's also a lot easier and less expensive in post production.

[south roost]

There really is no better reason than child welfare.

[next glacier]

it's easier than having a kid play two roles, but certainly not impossible as Haley Mills and Lindsay Lohan showed. it's not necessarily child welfare, but money. If they need to rehearse and film scenes twice, and the kid can only work 6 hours a day, then it takes more days to film., and then takes more post-production editing.

[south roost]

I mean the cost is a knock-on effect of the child welfare laws being brought in to prevent the kind of ridiculous abuse that the Golden Age of Hollywood was doing.

[crude oracle]

Don't think I've seen this mentioned, but when she says she'll kill everyone, her eyes go black like Torbin's when he was being controlled.

[south roost]

https://tenor.com/view/the-universe-tim-and-eric-mind-blown-mind-blown-meme-mind-explosion-mind-explosion-meme-gif-18002878