#Episode 4 Discussion

1197 messages · Page 2 of 2 (latest)

lyric prawn
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Yeah, and the Rex casting isn't official

crisp rain
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Whenever my kid plays with his princess castle I hear her.

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It's one where you put different characters on a peg and they say their lines.

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I'm like I know who you all are!

prime adder
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I'm old enough that Lazy Town basically existed only as a meme for me, so it's basically that, <scene missing> and now this.

midnight slate
crisp rain
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Interesting we're getting the Both choice that Grogu was denied.

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Now I'm seeing both is not a great choice and maybe that's why Huyang is so blatantly honest.

midnight slate
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We aren't getting the 'both' choice, though.

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Sabine, at thie point, isn't a 'practicing' Mandalorian. She isn't anything. Shes just herself.

crisp rain
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Which may be enough?

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I think Huyang wants her to play to her strengths.

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Instead of trying to be someone else.

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It seems mean. But may be for the best.

hybrid fog
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We're still missing some context with Ahsoka and Sabine, but I do think they're doing better this time around.

lyric prawn
crisp rain
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Luke! Thrawn is significant right? So what's my dude doing?

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I can see Leia being busy with Senate stuff like Mon is.

daring relic
# midnight slate

I like this joke but to be fair Huyang was blunt with the Younglings on occasion too.

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Like when whatsherface was skeptical about learning from a droid.

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And when the kid with the ego built his lightsaber wrong.

hybrid fog
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So, just had a thought. Thrawn is likely to meet Sabine for the first time.

daring relic
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He had a small collection of her work.

hybrid fog
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He did!

daring relic
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Which is honestly unpleasant to think about.

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Because of what he uses art for.

hybrid fog
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I don't know if he had it in his office on Lothal or on the Chimera.

daring relic
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Good question.
I can’t remember either. 😅

hybrid fog
last sinew
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i wonder if in the world between worlds is how ahsoka is gonna find out where thrawn and ezra are

daring relic
grand warren
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Purgills!

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floral kettle
bitter rivet
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Yeah, but who is going to communicate with the Purgills? If only there was someone besides Ezra who we know could communicate with animals using the force...

crisp rain
grand warren
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Timey wimey wibbly wobbly time-space whale stuff

crisp rain
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The whales are TARDISes

prime adder
# crisp rain I think Huyang wants her to play to her strengths.

I think Huyang knows that as a Mandalorian Sabine is motivated by spite. There's also the point in her second fight with Shin where their sabers are locked, and my stupid fight brain realised that it was a perfect moment for Sabine to deliver a beskar boot to the fork, which Shin would absolutely not be expecting from someone waving a glowstick around. Sabine didn't do it because she was focused on the saber due to unfamiliarity, and forgot the more holistic style of Mandalorian combat she's used to.

last sinew
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the question is are we gonna see Sabine actually use the force 🤔

maiden flare
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Even though that sounds cool, I honestly really hope not

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Not everyone should have the force, as it doesn’t really seem all that special anymore if so

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Besides, Sabine doesn’t need the force, she’s great on her own!

crisp rain
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I can't tell if Shin and Sabine dig eachother or if the actresses just have amazing chemistry.

prime adder
daring relic
hybrid fog
daring relic
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That’s technically “Skywalker stuff”. 😛

hybrid fog
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Fair 😂

daring relic
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…I can’t find a gif of that scene but now I want one.

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But as far as personality traits go, Sabine fits into her Jedi lineage quite well.

static silo
twin warren
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Yeah I also think we may see her “open herself to the Force” in a crucial moment at some point.

lyric prawn
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I think this has come up before
Lucas' concept of the force is that everyone has access to it, its just how hard you have to work to utilize it
He described it like yoga, others have described it like singing

Dedicate yourself long enough to being a good singer and you can eventually be passable
But some are naturally born singers

prime adder
crisp rain
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Eeeee! I like seeing their names together.

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They will learn from eachother.

prime adder
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I think Shin could learn from Sabine, but also that assumes that she will survive the lesson, which... look I wouldn't take that bet.

grand warren
hybrid fog
open topaz
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This was probably the best episode so far

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I can’t wait to learn whether or not Ahsoka is in limbo or something and if that was ACTUALLY Anakin talking to her 😭

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Also next episode will hopefully have a nice conversation between them

warm garnet
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Next episode is directed by Dave. 🙌🏻

grand warren
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I'm betting on Thrawn making an appearance in the next one. All the main characters are set in motion for the rest of the season

open topaz
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the only thing I want is a nice conversation between them. Something that'll be reminiscent of catching up

sage coral
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Next episode is being showin in a small handful of movie theatres, calling it now, it will be an emotional episode with a LOT of Anakin and Ahsoka content, and will end with Thrawn appearing

hybrid fog
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That's my thinking too.

open topaz
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man if I didn't already know Anakin was coming I would have been screaming when I saw the end 😭

sage coral
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I get why there's speculation about that not really being Anakin but I don't see Filoni and co pushing this episode to the big screen for "Gotcha, it was [insert villain] all along, not Anakin at all!"

hybrid fog
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Spoiler tagging in case my theory is right: ||Anakin is going to help Ahsoka let go of her misplaced guilt and show her that his fall would have still happened. I think it will be rough for her, but at the end, I think Anakin will Knight her in much the same way Kanan was.||

daring relic
warm garnet
hybrid fog
warm garnet
lyric prawn
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I wasn't super into the crawl and the marketing calling her a Jedi

hybrid fog
lyric prawn
hybrid fog
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Like Barris, she saw what the Order was doing to itself. Unlike Barris, she didn't take extreme measures about it.

lyric prawn
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She self describes as not being part of the jedi

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Not every lightsaber welding force user needs to be a jedi

hybrid fog
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Then she shouldn't be teaching Sabine the Jedi ways.

lyric prawn
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Is she? Maybe I missed it
But she keeps telling Huyang that she's not following their protocol

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The force is not unique to the jedi

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The Jedi are/were corrupt

Their core rules against attachment are what led to their downfall

floral kettle
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the jedi must end.

hybrid fog
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And yet Ahsoka continues to use the Force and her lightsabers to serve and protect those who cannot do it themselves. She may no longer be part of the Jedi Order, which was stagnant, arrogant, and corrupt. But she stands as the best example of what a Jedi Knight is meant to be.

lyric prawn
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You are associating thing to the Jedi which aren't unique to them and crafting their identity around those aspirational aspects

What Ahsoka is doing isn't unique to the Jedi
The force is not unique to the Jedi
Lightsabers are the Jedi's weapon, but anyone can weild them

Ahsoka is a hero, not a jedi

hybrid fog
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The Jedi Order was flawed. The aspirations they failed to live up to are worth keeping. The Jedi Order as it was must pass. What it means to truly be a Jedi must be redefined in a post-Empire galaxy. In my opinion.

lyric prawn
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But we know that doesn't happen
Luke takes the ancient sacred texts and tries to rebuild the Jedi order
Only to learn that the concept was flawed and failed again despite his best intentions

Hopefully when the responsibility of leading and training force users to be the protectors of the universe is in the hands of Rey, we can see a new path taken, one that isn't flawed.

hybrid fog
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Luke =/= Ahsoka.

daring relic
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The ongoing Jedi / Not Jedi thing with Ahsoka always makes me think of a bit of dialogue from the movie Twister, when Bill Paxton’s character is trying to get Helen Hunt’s character to sign divorce papers and inadvertently has to tag along with his old tornado hunting gang to do so.

Random Tornado Scientist: Hey Bill! glad you’re back!
Bill: I’m not back!!

The Narrator in my Head: “But Bill would discover within the next 48 hours that he was, in fact, back.”

Ahsoka, for a long time, doesn’t want to think of herself as a Jedi. But she embodies what a Jedi should be. Filoni knows it. That’s clearly the tale he is telling. Therefore the marketing is accurate (even if only for rudimentary labeling purposes).

hybrid fog
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Also @daring relic, I love how that movie decides to make it super easy for anyone talking to Bill Paxton's character, they don't have to remember a different name lol

daring relic
prime adder
prime adder
# hybrid fog The Jedi Order was flawed. The aspirations they failed to live up to are worth ...

The thing about Ahsoka's position is that a system's purpose is what it does, and therefore the Jedi Order's purpose was to become what it did and to fail the way it did, despite claiming that its purpose was to "protect the Republic" and "guard against the Sith" or whatever. Plus they seem to have managed to pretty much wipe out all other force traditions, with the exception of a few stragglers of each and the Nightsisters, so they are, as far as most are concerned, THE authorities on the force. So by virtue of the order laying claim to the name "Jedi" and having everyone know what that name means Ahsoka is in the position of having to try construct a new identity for herself AND reclaiming the force for the average citizen of the galaxy.

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Calling herself a "Jedi" is voluntarily taking on the burden of expectation that the galaxy has, and those expectations will almost certainly guarantee that she dies stupidly leading things down a bad path of rigidity of thought and isolation from material concerns. But she's also got the nostalgia of her youth when things looked hopeful and the galaxy seemed like a much safer and better place to look back on, so that'll cause all kinds of internal conflict.

static silo
# prime adder Calling herself a "Jedi" is voluntarily taking on the burden of expectation that...

How much of that nostalgia is crushed by her accusations of betrayal and removal from the order? Just as we see her move on from that, Order 66 comes down. She begins to move on from that and she finds out her former Master is Vader. This is a woman who was raised from a very young age in one way and has seen it fail again and again. It's telling that she won't say anything of the Jedi, except when she's pointedly not following their protocols.

prime adder
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I mean, "nostalgia" is the feeling of missing the past, so... yeah. In her case it's literally a mourning for her lost innocence.

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Like, I know things have been confused with the modern context of "nostalgia bait" being companies selling us things that remind us of good things in the past, but nostalgia is a bad thing. It literally means "homecoming sorrow", like when you go to your childhood bedroom after moving out of your parent's and they've changed it all.

crisp rain
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Nostalgia to me is much like hope. Both can be dangerous to hold on to or focus too long on..

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"Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was doing."

prime adder
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Well it's derived from a Greek term, so that tracks.

sage coral
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sobbing

hybrid fog
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I also feel like there's a lot of undeserved guilt in Ahsoka. Whether she realizes it or not, part of her does blame herself for Anakin's fall. Even if she knows her being gone had nothing to do with it on an intellectual level, that doesn't help on an emotional one. And guilt can be just as painful for a Jedi, be they part of the Order or not, as guilt can lead to so many places.
And on a different note, I think she's purposefully avoiding interfering too much in Luke's ways. She gave him options and told him to trust his instincts. I honestly am not sure Luke did that. I think he consulted the Jedi texts and decided "No, if Grogu is to be a Jedi, he must forgo the Mandalorian" and that was the first step of things going wrong.

prime adder
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I think we can safely say Luke did not do a great job.

static silo
# prime adder Like, I know things have been confused with the modern context of "nostalgia bai...

Why do you think Gen X started the collectibles market? It’s absolutely nostalgia. We’re grabbing everything we can put our monied fingers on that we either couldn’t get as kids or lost sometime in our childhood. It’s a word that has gained a new meaning in culture over the past 3 decades to gain a more positive connotation in that sense. Kind of like tragic coincidence becoming ironic or literally being used figuratively. In any sense, I don’t get the feeling that Ahsoka particularly has any sense of wanting to return to “better days”. She seems to be looking forward and trying to find her own path. Some of that path is running away from her mistakes rather than facing them until forced to. It’s kind of a pattern from CW and Tales and now training Sabine.

prime adder
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Yeah it's not about returning to better days, that's the modern meaning. It's being in mourning for the loss of what you thought were better days at the time but which time has revealed to have been less than you thought when you were there.

daring relic
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And for a few years, Ahsoka would doubtless have felt the same way.

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But the Clone Wars were also an orchestrated event that Palpatine created to play both sides against the middle so he could take over.

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Billions of lives wrecked or snuffed out entirely. All for one wrinkly man’s evil ambition.

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So yes, Ahsoka would undoubtedly be feeling that even the happiest moments of her adolescence were tainted.

prime adder
sage coral
hybrid fog
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And hopefully she'll come out the other side a bit better and hopefully in a place where she can understand why Sabine made the call she did rather than being TOO upset. It's fine to be upset about it, I think a good deal of us probably are, but it's also very understandable WHY Sabine made the choice she did, and Ahsoka needs to be able to see that rather than just "you let Thrawn return".

sage coral
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My call for the next episode:

We’re about to see Anakin and Ahsoka go through one hell of an emotional wringer together. The joy of seeing each other again. The anger at Anakin’s betrayal. Misplaced guilt from Ahsoka, blaming herself for his fall because she left. Correctly placed guilt from Anakin, taking the blame onto himself. Grief over what they lost and what could have been. Tears. Forgiveness. Anakin telling Ahsoka how proud he is of her. Memories of the Clone Wars, recognition of how far she’s come, how strong she has become.

And in the end, when they say a final goodbye and Ahsoka returns to the galaxy as she knows it, overwhelmed by what she’s been through but stronger for it…

That’s when we see Thrawn.

hybrid fog
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Oh we're definitely ending on Thrawn.

sage coral
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They’re giving this one theatrical releases, I can’t see it being anything other than Emotional Anakin and Ahsoka Content and the first appearance of live-action Thrawn

prime adder
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I think you're right here. It's going to be a slow burn talky episode where Ahsoka gets therapy and Sabine slowly learns some details about Baylan's background.

static silo
sage coral
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I’m sticking with the idea it’s Anakin’s ghost, if only because if it’s a pre-Vader Anakin then what they can say to each other is super limited without breaking the timeline

prime adder
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This is one of the reasons that the world between worlds causes problems, but also I think the simplest explanation is best: once Anakin was redeemed this is how he sees himself.

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Same as at the re-specialised edition of RotJ.

maiden flare
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Plot Twist:
It’s an alternate version of Anakin that discovered the World Between Worlds, and it isn’t the regular Anakin at all

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I don’t believe this at all, but wouldn’t be surprised if they went this route

crisp rain
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Well does Ahsoka even know everything that went down in his fall?

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Mace, Palpatine, and Anakin were alone.

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She can't warn preVader Ani that his ending trigger will be that moment.

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But yeah, I'd prefer force ghost so that Ahsoka can ask him wtf dude.

lyric prawn
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Recently heard Filoni's take on the WDW from the rebels commentary
The WBW is personal to the person experiencing it
So this version of Anakin is how Ahsoka remembers him, not how he remembers himself
Unless they are breaking from their previous interpretation of what the WBW is

So like Ezra could only see events he was connected to
Ahsoka can only see things that she's connected to

Ezra hears a lot of voices while he's there, but since he doesn't know who they belong to he can't understand what they are saying

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Just my mad ramblings

fiery burrow
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Watching Rebels and being sad, like ya do

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But I also realized something. Ezra and Ahsoka can't leave the WBW to save Kanan b/c they wouldn't be able to reach the WBW again. Ezra would have to reach through and pull Kanan out the same way he did with Ahsoka.

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So yeah, he really couldn't have saved Kanan without getting everyone killed. No way he and Ahsoka could grab Kanan, hold back the blast AND force push everyone else away from within the WBW

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Especially since Ahsoka is still reeling from her fight with Vader

hybrid fog
hybrid fog
bitter rivet
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Imagine how huge it would have been for SW fandom if Hayden's return was ep 4 Ahsoka instead of the OBK series.

fiery burrow
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nah, Kenobi was the better choice to bring him back.

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way more people have seen and care about the Prequels than TCW

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and Hayden wasn't even in TCW, so while I'm glad to have him in Ahsoka, it was way more impactful to have Hayden and Ewan come back together.

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especially for those of us who saw the prequels as they released. TCW didn't debut until 3 years after ROTS

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and was very much viewed as a kid's show by most adults in the fandom—at least the adults I was around at the time, which is, granted, a small sample size.

hybrid fog
fiery burrow
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I also loved the Tartakovsky Clone Wars, and really did not like the 3d animation of TCW. I was not impressed with 3d animation as a whole back then 😂

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and then TCW started walking all over the Dark Horse comics, which were some of my favorite Star Wars, so I was kind of cranky about the whole thing

hybrid fog
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I just found "Snips" to be really irritating and didn't care to watch a whole series with the little smart alec. Then years later, a friend was talking about how cool it was when Ahsoka showed up in Rebels and I had the response: "Wait, that annoying brat that was Anakin's Padawan in Clone Wars? She sucked!"

fiery burrow
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for me it was the tube top. like, really? you put a child Jedi padawan in a tube top?

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but I wasn't a fan of the snips/sky guy bit, either.

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once they ditched the tube top and toned down the "roger roger" humor, I was able to more or less enjoy the show. and for me, it was worth it for the payoff we get in Rebels and then later, TCW S7.

hybrid fog
prime adder
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I think "roger roger" has grown on me as I aged. It feels like "Dad humour" that didn't land at the time because I was young enough to think I was too cool for it.

fiery burrow
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I love "roger roger", but early TCW put it down a bit thick

hybrid fog
prime adder
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I like that they've explained it as the Trade Federation being cheap, so all of the OOM-series are just B-1s that have had their processors overclocked to handle local task handling rather than relying on a central computer. Plus due to how they tend to get re-assembled after being destroyed what's going on is they're all super talkative due to handling the pure PTSD of having to think at all and then process repeated glowstick dismemberment.

static silo
prime adder
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The target audience for Clone Wars and Rebels was misjudged at the start.

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They aimed young, and it's basically axiomatic that continuity-based childrens programming gets three seasons max. Transformers is the ideal study franchise for this. There's a short season 1, a long season 2, and then a short and weird season 3 with a rebrand to try grab a few pennies more before they kill it and start over.

lyric prawn
fiery burrow
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it may be, but that was probably George's mistake, not Dave's (in this instance)

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not that Dave doesn't make mistakes, because he totally does

lyric prawn
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Yeah, I don't know who originated the character, but Filoni appears (at least to me) to be covering rather than explaining

fiery burrow
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George

grand warren
fiery burrow
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it's honestly hilarious to me that people forget George came up with Ahsoka. Dave has put a lot into the character of course, but she was George's idea and they developed her together.

fiery burrow
hybrid fog
grand warren
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As if Dave sat alone in a room and brought out a golden screenplay of all things star wars and then there was much rejoicing

fiery burrow
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guess I better put the /s

daring relic
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George was responsible for the tube top.

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Or at least this is what I have heard.

It sounds plausible, coming from Mr. “You can’t wear a bra in space, something something gravity will strangle you.”

lyric prawn
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Lets just all agree that all the people who make Star Wars content have all ruined all of it
Except for Favreau

daring relic
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Star Wars is ruined in the same way that real life is ruined.

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It’s all dependent on your certain point of view.

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Anyway, here’s Huyang:

prime adder
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Dude really has a thing for making female characters way too young for the stories he wants to tell with them.

floral kettle
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better version

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river saffron
bitter rivet
# fiery burrow nah, Kenobi was the better choice to bring him back.

True, it made more sense from a corporate pov, but I'm speaking from the privileged position of having seen both. OBK execution was limp (imo) and rather meaningless considering the circumstances while that final Ahsoka scene was special (first live action meeting, with potential for actual story ramifications and in a better show -- IMO).

Should have just expressed how much I would have preferred it!

lyric prawn
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I think if you removed Hayden from OBK you don't have a show

hybrid fog