division-universe

[woven basalt]

wait, so youve been agreeing in an arguementative way for an hour because you misunderstood? lmao.

ive been saying "enabled" for over an hour, not "given" or "gotten".

or "recieved"

[sick lantern]

when you said this I thought you meant lore wise not gameplay wise

[woven basalt]

its both.

though honestly, i don't know what you mean, so i could be misunderstanding.

you go a little vague sometimes

[sick lantern]

lore wise they definitely do
gameplay wise they do not

[woven basalt]

tbh sometimes its hard to seperate the two.

i thought about that with the shooting training, but when i watched it earlier, it seemed to fit seamlessly as a piece of lore/worldbuilding too.

OH I SEE, yeah i have no idea about the lore to that level, i suspect the "world of..." book would have the most details on that (but ive never seen it)

but i agree with most of the above posts, most likely its retconned.

to whatever the latest version is (though i feel people might discount hearts on fire simply for being a tie-in).

[round sinew]

I think the skills are nanotech

How else can I have an infinite amount of turrets that I can destroy and throw out again

[spare arrow]

nanomachines, son

they harden in response to physical trauma

[near kettle]

isac do be producing those babes

[round sinew]

If they make nanobots that can heal and hurt people, then surely they can make ones that become bomb or turret

[sick lantern]

I think having infinite amounts is just gameplay and story segregation

[near kettle]

its quite possible its just produced from nanomachines

[sick lantern]

so Division agents are just running around with an ample supply of Big Hero 6- style nanomachines that can integrate into forming multiple different 100% functional weapons and devices

[near kettle]

yes

i mean

Bullet King has infinite bullets

doesnt seem impossible for me

[round sinew]

Yes

That's what Hives are.

Weaponized nanobots

Where the fuck do you think the shield variants go?

They just poof on and off your arm.

Tbh, I'm surprised Division agents still use shields rather than some sort of energy shield.

[near kettle]

i mean, division agents should be doing magic by now

[woven basalt]

next step is green lantern-esque hard-light constructs

lol, reminds me of the E3 div1 trailer where the agent projects the map onto the street around the agent.

[spare arrow]

Doesnt that happen on a smaller scale in div1 when you pull up the map?

[woven basalt]

i think the difference is it darkens, tilts down, and zooms out. idk why they changed it (outside of having to turn the camera a helluva lot more in the e3 version)

[gaunt ice]

maybe its just for gameplay purposes and you only have 1-3 of them in a mission?

so if they're blown up,you have to go back to base for some more?

[woven basalt]

wait, you dont think respawning means the agent is also made of nano-bots? no way.

[gaunt ice]

insert nanomachines joke here

[woven basalt]

the closest i know is "nothing personal, kid", but tbh i never played mgs rising

[sick lantern]

yes but the hive itself isn’t some crazy 3D printed contraption

[dry spear]

Imagine Sam Fisher showing up fully and physically as an Easter egg where he Kills a Hunter Like a Badass and just fivea you his mask as a gift

It may or may not be an Excuse to fuel my Hunter Addiction

[gaunt ice]

Sam Fisher in division canon will cause some massive lore fuck

i.e:explaining how to fit div into every tom clancy games ever?

except Elite Squad and XD

[ashen jungle]

At this point I see Sam Fisher as a kinda mascot for the license, more than an actual canon character.

e.g. his appearance in the newer Ghost Recons.

[dry spear]

Good Let the Lore be Fucked

Also timelines exist

Like how the SHD exists in ghost recon and the Ghosts Exist in The Division

[gaunt ice]

how does that conflict with ghost recon and splinter cell?

i never play a sc game,but just a bit of lore

he's like the Ubisoft version of Snake

[dry spear]

Yep

Payday 2 has the hunter mask lol

[woven basalt]

very much so, and both have that plisskin "legendary soldier" thing going on.

[dry spear]

Im and they both Have Generic ass Names like Snakes name is DAVID And Sams name is SAM

[woven basalt]

honestly, i dont take the crossover stuff seriously, but i think its cool for you guys to try connecting the dots.

[dry spear]

Thing is they all exist in the same Universe but The Division is in a diffirent time like

The story od the division not the entire SHD

[woven basalt]

theres a couple different theories on the divisions set time, but since i believe the devs meant for it to be obscured, i don't really think about it.

it allows for a lot of interesting over-arching theories

[gaunt ice]

i mean,then you'd have to explain some stuff if the dots are really connected like why does Faye Lau has Sam's goggles on her desk,or how a secret government agency has a gun that prints their own logo on it

i even remember that one time someone tried to connect division to assassin's creed

[dry spear]

The Division was made to be the last line of defence so in their Story Time Line That means Sam Fisher Rainbow 6 and the Ghosts failed.

[woven basalt]

what? via legion then far cry then division?

[woven basalt]

wasnt the division's mission statement to re-establish a centralized government?

idk if that means other arms doing other things don't exist. though, that seems also obscured.

[dry spear]

When The Last line of Defense is crushed and the Goverment falls its the Division's job to Become the new Line of Defense and restore the Goverment

[woven basalt]

still don't know if thats what that means. division is more about fighting the enemies within, domestically, where as ghost etc operate outside that scope.

[dry spear]

The Ghost are the Silent Tactical Squad that the Military sends on The most Top Secret Missions to do them Quietly or if necessary Loudly

Which gives me a Theory that The Hunters could be Ghosts and Members of Echelon (R6 are loud mission type of people)

What say you?

[ashen jungle]

What part of the mission requires that they string up and murder a SHD agent?

or work for a PMC that is actively fighting against what is left of the US government?

remember: Sokolova wanted to install the new Pres. as a puppet, they were taking him to the White House when someone shot hit jet down.

[sick lantern]

If you’re talking about me then that’s not what I was doing thank you very much 😤
if you’re not talking about me then 😅

[sick lantern]

Yea there’s no correlation between the activation of the SHD and the active status of those organisations, at the time of Div 1 they were probably mostly functional even

[gaunt ice]

that sounds very unconvincing

R6 are the best operators in their country's special forces

Ghosts can adapt to literally anything

[sick lantern]

it’s “when society falls” not “when there is literally no one left to possibly help besides us”

do you think we’ll see some minor Division crossover in Extraction?

[gaunt ice]

that'll just be an average friday to them

yeah r6 are badasses,but have they ever face tanked the capitol building?or a fucking base?

[ashen jungle]

SHD Agents are really only there to ensure continuity of government, which is why they have such high clearance and the codes for every feasible security door between them and their goal.

[sick lantern]

i’m pretty sure team rainbow could handle that if a squad of Division agents can

[gaunt ice]

that depends though

stealthy or tactically?yeah

face tanking?not so sure

most of their abilities,atleast the later ones are electrical-based

and a hammer or a he launcher thats loaded with 1 round ain't gonna help much against a juggernaut in iron armor

yeah you can say the same for division agents,but they should have an easier time around

also you realised that hacking cameras or making your enemy's phone ring ain't gonna help much right?

[sick lantern]

I’m certain that if four Division agents can do it then a team of five or six of the world’s greatest special operatives- SAS, Navy SEALS etc- could do it

[gaunt ice]

i don't think you understand,yes they can

but it'd be easier for a div agent to handle

[sick lantern]

Team rainbow as in the organisation that they actually, a conglomeration of special operatives, not as a mishmash assortment of individuals specialised for the sake of a hero shooter

[gaunt ice]

well proper ones,not the crappy unprepared guys that died all over the city

[gaunt ice]

yes,but in the world of div,alot of r6 operators will be nothing more than a regular shooter

[sick lantern]

which realistically would be enough

[gaunt ice]

you know what,scrap my last,that was not convincing

i mean,the NYC Jtf was actually alot of regular shooters

and they almost lost a flood gate to a bunch of angry crowd

a nuclear power factory to a Wish version Arkham Asylum

and a PMC

you need to be more than just an "average shooter" to stand out

like,how many operators in r6 have their abilities not something that can be fucked with an emp pulse?

the very angry SAS guy with a hammer

Ash,whose HE launchers can be replaced with a sticky or a proper grenade launcher

the focken laser sight guy

that one guy who's so strong he can knock a whole wall down

yeah i am definitely missing alot more

oh yeah just to add,the Frenchy with a flash shield,what's his name?Baguette?

so with no skills,you have either regular spec ops,and people whose abilities can either be replaced with something we already have,or will just fucking die if they aren't using their skills in 5-10 m

[sick lantern]

“regular spec ops” would be considerably more effective than Division agents

[gaunt ice]

how so?

cuz im not seeing any Delta Forces used to attack the base of what can be assumed as a terrorist group trying to overthrow the government

[sick lantern]

better training, discipline and coordination

[sick lantern]

they’re probably dead that’s why

Green Poison?

[gaunt ice]

but then the agents survived

[sick lantern]

ninety odd percent of the human population?

[gaunt ice]

and

it doesn't sound realistic for the entire Navy Seals or Delta Force to die from a virus,like yeah they're still humans but all of them?

and alot of agents do have military backgrounds

[sick lantern]

the armed forces as an organisation probably barely exist, they wouldn’t have the logistics to get a spec ops squad together
however Division agents have access to ISAC/ the SHD network for coordination and are trained in on-site procurement and scavenging, the presence of Division agents in a scenario where they would be activated is more feasible than a proper armed forces response

That’s kind of the point of the franchise, we do it because the odds of anyone else doing it are very very low

we’re prepared, they’re not

[gaunt ice]

fair points

but we still have army coordinators?that can be separated from division?

[dry spear]

Well we get what we have so yea basically the story of the division is a seperate time line because they get activated there because Green Poison go brrrr and in the main stream its a Nah dog you stay nom activated.

[sick lantern]

that doesn’t mean that in the world of the Division, team rainbow, ghosts etc. are completely annihilated, it just means they aren’t around because this isn’t their area of expertise

[gaunt ice]

i think its only the division is separated from the timeline?

cuz r6,sc and gc are connected

[dry spear]

Yea probably

[sick lantern]

So why did you say that?

[dry spear]

Say what

I didnt say the got destroyed(R6 Echelon Ghosts)

I said they got activated (SHD)

[sick lantern]

you said it right here

[dry spear]

Failed doesnt mean dead

Failed is failed its like securing a briefcase if tou dont manage to get it the mission is a feilur

[sick lantern]

failed means they tried something and in a scenario where the SHD is activated, those groups have little jurisdiction

[ashen jungle]

exactly, like I said before, the SHD is more about continuity of government, recovering what was lost, rather that serving an interest.

[woven basalt]

idk, i wouldnt limit the r6 team based on siege considering the tech theyre using are prototypes specifically designed for hostage rescue scenarios. i mean, the whole game is a training exercise. pretty sure theyd get the same kinda overtech you'd see in breakpoint if they were set on a non-training non-hostage situation mission.

[ashen jungle]

I'm not really sure how that relates to them being put on the same level as SHD.

[woven basalt]

i'm talking about that one guy that's basing their capacity on the training stuff in siege.

[sick lantern]

me?

[woven basalt]

no, the other guy. the one that did that big wall of text.

[sick lantern]

ok good cus that wasn’t what I was doing also I had been away from chat and thought you were him 😅

[woven basalt]

yeah, sorry about before, i lost sight on what we were actually talking about (pre-activation training) and tunnel-visioned on the tutorial phase of div1. only realized afterwards.

[mint citrus]

The D1 tutorial is basically a quick rundown/field exercise

That's how I made sense of it

[round sinew]

Wasn't the D1 tutorial of you killing rioters in Brooklyn or Jersey?

[woven basalt]

or the bronx or something

[ashen jungle]

Brooklyn, that's it.

[round sinew]

Man

Now that i think about it

SHD agents double-tapping random rioters is kinda fucked

[woven basalt]

no. sleep. till. BROOKLYN.

[round sinew]

Maybe there's something to that "SHD are the bad guys"

[sick lantern]

two groups were stealing supplies and two took hostages, seems fair to me

[round sinew]

Starving people get shot by government agent for stealing food. More at 11.

[sick lantern]

theft is theft also one of them was stealing medicines
they could’ve gotten their food from the distribution centre like everyone else but instead they chose to be selfish and bring harm to the innocent, they deserved it

[woven basalt]

they always attacked me first, so clearly i was acting in self-defence, lmao

[sick lantern]

the first one you do, you see one straight up execute a civilian

first enemy you usually fight in div 1

cold blooded murderer

[sleek plover]

LMB kills civilian social workers

they also conscript civilians as suicide squads

cleaners burn civilian shelters

Poisoning shelters using gases

Outcasts... well they are doing just as evil stuff

So does rikers, hyenas, Black tusks, etc.

The point is, villains are villains for a reason, there is literally no point nor reason to romanticize sympathize with them besides their design as an enemy faction

I just find some factions to be less-evil than the others

And I find the authoritarian ones and cleaners as the most evil

And I find Cleaners, despite the fact i hate them, very well designed as an enemy chars

[gaunt ice]

id like to separate them as:noble(or maybe good,but that's debatable) cause gone wrong and discount Arkham Asylum patients

like the cleaners and the lmb

yeah lmb are fascists,but they do have the good idea of rebuilding the city,even if they have to go full Hitler on it

cleaners want to destroy the virus for good,and they see fire as the only way

true sons are just mad people,soldiers who crack under the pressure

hyenas are just...you know,hyenas

outcast are selfish cunts who kills everyone because they were mistreated

black tusk is the pc master race version of the lmb

buttt they are controlled by russians,which is established by every boomers as evil

[sick lantern]

LMB are sort of at least trying to bring order to chaos, BT are full on conspiracy NWO and have been nefarious since before the outbreak

[gaunt ice]

well the soldiers seem to believe that they're on the good side

i guess only a few of them do the black ops shit like sabotaging the shd network

or we'll pull a Kirby and say they're Assassins,because the old gov is Templars,templar bad assassins good,bla bla bla connected universe i need a sleep

[sick lantern]

I never said it was connected to AC, but that that would be the case if it was

[gaunt ice]

fair

fuck did i really miss a R there and need to edit that in?

[winged sleet]

So what's the lore about Mendez

[gaunt ice]

who?

oh shi-

[winged sleet]

President Mendez, guy before Ellis I assume

[gaunt ice]

oh god i thought you're gonna say mendeez nut

he was assassinated by 2 secret service agent who's actually black tusk moles

faked as a suicide

[winged sleet]

I suspected as much

[ashen jungle]

To clarify: they were actually just being offered money/a safe passage out of DC, they weren't BT moles exactly.

just Secret Service agents scared of dying, made a deal to run. Then they were killed off when they went to the extraction area anyway.

[gaunt ice]

oof

thanks for the correction Rivs

[ashen jungle]

nw Thanh, that's what I'm here for.

[sleek plover]

I just find any form of authoritarianism as much greater evil than just raiding and pillaging.

[ashen jungle]

systematic or anarchic, evil is still evil.

[warped iris]

I wish we saw more of the LMB that joined the JTF ingame

I remember them being shown in a trailer that showed the attack on Wall Street

would have offered the JTF/Peacekeepers some elite troops

on that note, I really wish the militias had some archetypes

and to see them more often than just control points

[sleek plover]

I just find systematic to be worse. They are still evil though.

[gaunt ice]

spec ops lmb in jtf rank sounds pretty nice

maybe they can bring out the big guns and work more effective than regular jtf goons

[floral gull]

That would be us

[ashen jungle]

give Thanh a bit, takes him a while to understand. 😉

[sleek plover]

If we ever have our own goons to command, JTF archetypes would follow true sons imo

[gaunt ice]

yeah but im talking the slightly weaker ones but has more in numbers

[ashen jungle]

They are mostly city employees, so that'd make a kinda sense.

[floral gull]

Jtf chunga

[gaunt ice]

that would be the fat guy by the buy station in div1

[floral gull]

Throws chests

[sleek plover]

JTF Assault
JTF Charger
JTF Sniper
JTF Medic
JTF Heavy Weapons
JTF Engineer
JTF RPG
JTF Immobilizer
JTF Tank
Non-Cleaner Sanitation Worker
Former LMB Veteran
Civilian Militia Auxiliary
Peacekeepers Auxiliary
NPC SHD Agent

In my case, I would gladly go rogue killing those former LMB

Maybe JTF immobilizer would fire blobs of foam like napalm rather than flamethrower-styled spraying. That why the real life infantry flamethrowers are outdated, napalm blob throwing is much safer.

[ashen jungle]

holy text block, batman.

[warped iris]

either way story-wise we capture a lot of places that are packed with gear and at most we get some more people in shorts and some useless vest lol

[sleek plover]

Sorry, im a huge lore guy and sometimes I gonout of control like that

[warped iris]

as for the LMB, sure the originals were bad but still if they help out now why not welcome them

[sleek plover]

unit/npc archetypes are my fav area among them

[warped iris]

also, what is your take on Paul Rhodes

[ashen jungle]

its not a matter of being a "lore guy", its a matter of needing to edit it down lol. You didn't need to type in "JTF" 9 times, for example.

[sleek plover]

hating LMB was the primary reason i started the game itself. As for rhodes, he left before LMB became sinners

[sick lantern]

Rhodes was never part of the LMB

[warped iris]

but how do you know they were not the same before

yes he was part of the LMB

[sleek plover]

according to the book world of the division, he was

[warped iris]

it's even said in Division 1

[sleek plover]

that... you have a point

[sick lantern]

in Division 1 they say “a PMC” not the LMB specifically

[ashen jungle]

Y'all are confusing "worked with" and "worked for".
assuming it was even the LMB.

[sick lantern]

there’s more than one of those unsurprisingly

[warped iris]

I mean to me they look like the typical merc outfit doing dirt jobs in areas of the world that were similar to post-pandemic US before the story

[ashen jungle]

PMCs hire specialists all the time. Rhodes was an external contractor.

[warped iris]

it is said he is a former member

not former associate or something like that

[sleek plover]

They do say so in world of the division book too

but seriously... gosh I really hate LMB

[ashen jungle]

Mind sending me a link where it says that? I've heard the exact opposite, where he "was with a PMC".

[warped iris]

understandable, I do not like the LMB either

[sleek plover]

take a look at my profile pic bro

[warped iris]

but imo if they come around to help a better cause they deserve a chance

[sleek plover]

Welp, im a huge believer of freedom being a right and given, and my ongoing headcanon is my rogue agent is a crazy cultist worships freedom like a god. But most of the guys here are prob sick of me saying this

[warped iris]

you got full rights to express your stance on things

[sleek plover]

I know, i know, but i said it too much in this channel

[warped iris]

I do not really believe in going rogue either myself

I just feel it takes away any and all restraint, look at Lau

[ashen jungle]

Yeah let's tone down the rhetoric a little.
at the end of the day, it's all fiction.

[sleek plover]

Tbh Lau was more stupid than evil

[warped iris]

I'd say not stupid, maybe desperate

she lost faith in the Division

[sleek plover]

that... actually makes lots of sense

[ashen jungle]

so the two of you just didn't play the final Manhunt, I'm assuming.

[warped iris]

grief can be well, unpredictable, and seeing how much she cared for her sister and having blamed it on lack on personnel then yeah

[sleek plover]

... the season forcibly ended right after i unlocked the hunting lau mission

[warped iris]

I did, she took drastic steps that I feel were less her thinking it's necessary and more her being too mentally exhausted to think otherwise

[sleek plover]

I was like...15 minutes too late

[ashen jungle]

Whether you liked the canon or not, it still happened.
if that was me, I'd say it ended at the finale of World Tier 5.

but i digress, canon is still canon, whether it's a satisfying ending or not.

[warped iris]

never said I did not like it, it's actually quite interesting in terms of what roads it opens

I am just saying Lau's actions have more depth than just "did it cause it's right"

[ashen jungle]

was talking to 'LMB,.

[sleek plover]

If division 3 happens, I hope they have the switching weather mechanic which the environment turn from summer to winter by months

[warped iris]

ah fair

[sleek plover]

I dont exactly have any negative opinions of faye going rogue too

[ashen jungle]

I honestly don't get the hate for the weather effects. They're not that hard to work around. kinda fun play changes.

she went undercover, not full rogue.

[sleek plover]

I just want BTSU/Whats left of True Sons and LMB and cleaners CRUSHED that is all

[warped iris]

it's the most atmospheric imo when it starts raining heavily and a fight breaks out and you mostly see the flashes of bullets and the odd light

[sleek plover]

I hope somebody makes a fanfic about true sons remnant grumbling cause ridgeway is dead and people are shooting fireworks because of it

[warped iris]

but I do wonder why do you hate the LMB specifically, I'd say the Rikers for one were much worse

[ashen jungle]

please dont ask.

[sleek plover]

see? I said about it too much in this channel. people are sick of it @warped iris

[warped iris]

imo as long as we're not derailing any ongoin discussion

[sleek plover]

wanna go pm?

[warped iris]

fair enough

[ashen jungle]

its not about saying it a lot, really. It's about the weirdly aggressive tones that it brings.

[sleek plover]

ok... that was really satisfying

[fast kettle]

[near kettle]

i really wanted to do faye lau's hunt

[late void]

that's next season, so you can

[near kettle]

oh

nice

[late void]

starts in a few weeks after the current one finishes

[near kettle]

i didnt do this season's hunt either

but the gadget seems meh

and its quite difficult to find people to helo me

[late void]

well you've got a few weeks left to do it

[near kettle]

so im just mocking around

[warped iris]

you can do it this season too

if you get a high enough level

[tiny wraith]

goat you need 750,000 a lvl

[cold bramble]

700k*

[floral gull]

You can go to lfg and find someone who can toggle the mission….right?

[near kettle]

oh, i guess

[tiny wraith]

are you looking to get the achillies??

[gaunt ice]

it's a sniper main's wet dream wdym?

[near kettle]

the damage trap? why?

[gaunt ice]

oh sry i thought you're talking about achilles pulse

[near kettle]

nah

thats faye lau's

i actually want it

very much

[tiny wraith]

Ok just start walk to the fenced door and there it is you don't have to actually do the mission

[near kettle]

what

[woven basalt]

he's talking about the gadget you get in the faye lau mission, it's at the start of it.

im not sure if thats the gadget you were talking about, the last part of the convo is a bit confusing,

[near kettle]

i never did faye lau's mission

[winged sleet]

If you boot it up you can get the Achilles skill within 5 minutes. It's right at the start of the level

Might as well see it through though if you can access it

[tiny wraith]

oh he might not have her unlocked

[near kettle]

i may have or not

i didnt do the full hunt, so i guess i dont have it

[late void]

it also unlocks as part of the season journey (along with the rest of the manhunt final missions) - can't remember what level, but unless you've only recently started you'll probably have it unlocked. Just try going to the White Oak mission settings and see if there's a 'toggle mission mode' option available

[near kettle]

where's white oak

im kinda dumb

[late void]

off-map, directly north of the white house

[near kettle]

aight, thanks

[round sinew]

White Oak is analogous to Camp David

[ashen jungle]

Correct.
kinda like how the Wall Street mission is meant to be an off-brand version of the NYSE.

in my mind, Ubi' didn't get the rights to those, same as the cop cars don't have NYPD on the sides.

[warped iris]

I never noticed, what does it say instead

[ashen jungle]

NYCP
i assume its "new york city police".

[warped iris]

oh damn

on another note

[ashen jungle]

ditto for the CDC being DCD.

[warped iris]

have we ever got more info on the faction from the sewers

[ashen jungle]

I think they're just the psychos, crazy weirdos.
no real lore there, from what I can tell. Just nutters.

[warped iris]

yeah I wouldn't be surprised if all that's going on really got to some people

reminds me of that altar in Division 1 also

[near kettle]

where does the toggle option appears?

[late void]

when you open the mission option screen (where you can choose difficulty or directives from) it should appear in the bottom left corner

if you're not seeing it, double check one of the invaded missions (not tidal basin but whatever support missions come up to unlock it this week) and that should also have a 'toggle mission mode' option

[near kettle]

oooo i have it

nice, nice, thank you brother

[late void]

np

should be the same for all the manhunt missions: Tidal Basin, Coney Island Amusement Park (although you can do that one this week anyway if you finish the manhunt targets) and Roosevelt Island

[steep saddle]

what ? i've been calling the CDC a mislabeled organization from a Ubisoft game this whole time ?

[tiny wraith]

There sorta the same thing

Department of communicable diseases

Center for disease Control

[ashen jungle]

Think of it as the copyright free version.

[mint citrus]

FDNY is also FNYC

[sick lantern]

FEMA is CERA

[mint citrus]

Somehow Rikers' is still Rikers'?

[woven basalt]

rikers is different than those, its the name of an island, not an organization.

[sick lantern]

iirc there’s this one island in New York that was some crazy smallpox hospital/mass grave back in the day, I think it could’ve been cool thematically to see the Cleaners do something there

[sleek plover]

New York is known for its chopped cheese

https://youtu.be/9gu0v2ITeYU
I hoped there are going to be at least 1 reference to this.
I hope the clancyverse version of the chef survived.

[cold bramble]

Anyone know of any lore on the Hunters?

[sick lantern]

nothing confirmed

[cold bramble]

That's a drag.

I'd like to know more about them.

Maybe a novel or something.

[spare arrow]

i think the whole "not much if anything is known" is why they are cool to a bunch of people

[woven basalt]

yeah, that mystique.

[ashen jungle]

I too, want to paint the Hunters blue and have them appear less and less.

[woven basalt]

they pretty much ruined her in the first class series by tying her to prof. x's childhood.

which is partly why im find with the hunters being vague.

whatever they give us could be worse than we've got.

[ashen jungle]

Was more of a comment about the actress than anything, but yeah, "darkness there and nothing more" means that our mind fills in the blanks.
A mystery questioned is always better than one solved.

It's the best thing you can do to create horror, the unknown.

[woven basalt]

plus, the second version's make-up effects looked really really bad in comparison.

[ashen jungle]

I agree, the Hunter in CI:AP did need some better eyeshadow.

[sleek plover]

At least they are acknowledged lorewise

most likely Sokolov-fed SVR/Spetsnaz blackops methinks

[mint citrus]

Hmmm

I can see it

[sick lantern]

that would be pretty lame tbh

[gaunt ice]

i've always felt like the hunter mask is literally attached to their faces

so when you take their mask away,you've just skinned their entire face too

probably for identity protection

that might explain why isac can't recognise the face,or any of the characters in the game never goes "oh he looks like a abcxyz" whatever

[sick lantern]

🙃bit gruesome

[slate cloak]

Ayo what the

Anyway
What the heck are the Hunters even?

Cuz they have the same shd tech as Agents but

What's the difference between Rogue agents and Hunters in terms of lore?

[ashen jungle]

The official answer is: we don't know.
we do know that they (or at least some of them) like to collect SHD watches.
we also know that they are very likely not Agents themselves.

[sick lantern]

we just don’t know who the Hunters are

[ashen jungle]

Rogue Agents are Agents that went off-mission, they're recognised by a Red glow on their Watch instead of Orange.
any Agent can go Rogue, once you do you likely can't go back.

They're not inherently evil, however they don't have the benefits of ISAC anymore, or at least the full benefits.

[slate cloak]

Well the looting from SHD tech part explains their similarities in combat with Rogue Agents

Rogues still have access to their gadgets

While Hunters looted it

I think i understand

[ashen jungle]

As far as we know, Hunters were never Agents, as they are able to "hack" our Tech and Rogues can not, or at least 90% of Rogues can't.

actually the intro mission to Hunters in div2 is a good proof that they aren't agents, poor Edwards.

[slate cloak]

I think the "habit of looting shd tech" thing about hunters also present in the exotic BP "Memento" where apparently they also loot Agent Watches "supoosedly" as sick mementos

[ashen jungle]

yep

[slate cloak]

But then again idk what's up with Hunters and SHD tech

We don't know

[sick lantern]

Hunters had SHD tech and seemed very proficient in using it the first time they were encountered, I don’t think they loot all of it

[ashen jungle]

I guess it depends on how far back you wanna count Hunters as canon.
Survival, Underground?

[slate cloak]

idk

[ashen jungle]

Was more of a rhetorical question, there's some very familiar feelings of "grey canon" about the whole thing, and I hope they keep it that way.

I hate when things are over explained. Wish they'd kept the CI:AP Hunter as a Rogue too.

[slate cloak]

And one more thing
Who are canonically the strongest enemy factions aside from BT?

[ashen jungle]

JTF, because Agents are allied with them.

[sick lantern]

LMB or True Sons

[ashen jungle]

LMB are gone.

[sick lantern]

“enemy”

[ashen jungle]

I still kinda count JTF as an enemy faction after what they did back in the DZ.

[gaunt ice]

True sons can still technically put up a better fight than all of the other hostile factions,minus bt

[sick lantern]

the people who call the JTF enemies are the fascists and psychopaths soooo

[gaunt ice]

rogue agent detected

[ashen jungle]

I will ping that LMB weirdo, I swear.

[gaunt ice]

@sleek plover

You’re welcome Rivs

[slate cloak]

Like
BT and True Sons have the best tech compared to the rest of the factions
But what's the True Sons faction anyway?

[ashen jungle]

Don't and really don't call me that, Thanh.

[gaunt ice]

US soldiers going rogue

[gaunt ice]

Sorry

[sick lantern]

JTF soldiers and paramilitaries gone off mission, trying to establish a military junta

[gaunt ice]

Lead by the psychopathic general uhhh what’s his name?

[sick lantern]

Anton Ridgeway

[slate cloak]

So
True Sons are part JTF
Black Tusk has tech on-par with SHD's stuff
Rogues and Hunters are 3rd cuz they're not as widespread and rarely appear

[gaunt ice]

Actually true sons are better than jtf in terms of equipment and combat skills

[ashen jungle]

Mr Pardoned by Sam Fisher and in another game.

god that thing was awful.

[gaunt ice]

Waittt I thought that was Bliss?

[ashen jungle]

I'm fairly sure I saw Ridgeway in the bio the one time I looked at it.

[gaunt ice]

Like,yeah people do survive helicopter crashes

[ashen jungle]

it mentioned the helicopter crash.

[gaunt ice]

But you can’t tell me that Ridgeway didn’t die in that pile of riot foam+all that shotgun rounds on his skull+his ammo pouch exploding right behind him

[sick lantern]

Hornet survived

[gaunt ice]

Which is more convincing

[ashen jungle]

Hornet didn't die in div1, I think any death is now up in the air.

[gaunt ice]

Punished Faye

[sick lantern]

doo doo dooooo

[gaunt ice]

Now with 2 eyepatches and 3 artificial limbs

[gaunt ice]

What a thrill…

Wait no wrong song

[ashen jungle]

Baby Shark.

[sick lantern]

[ashen jungle]

.

[gaunt ice]

WHY DID YOU MAKE ME REMEMBER THAT

[sleek plover]

wat

[ashen jungle]

👶 🦈 .

[gaunt ice]

this

[gaunt ice]

.

[sleek plover]

JTF are the good guys

for now

Baby park doo doo doo doo doo https://youtu.be/3AvMoW79KSE

[gaunt ice]

double tab saves the day again

lmao noob

[sleek plover]

Baby Park doo doo doo doo doo

[gaunt ice]

you will not trick me into watching that persona 4 video

[sleek plover]

Baby Park!

[gaunt ice]

stop giving me dark ideas

LMB is great

[sleek plover]

Baby Park doo doo doo doo doo
https://youtu.be/IDr3KYjdDqE

thats a persona 4 video link

[gaunt ice]

ehhh better

not into that type of game

and you know im still thanh right?

[sleek plover]

yeah

and ur vietnamese right?

[gaunt ice]

back on track:the hunter's mask is glued to their face

[gaunt ice]

yes

[sleek plover]

playing that game made me reqlly respect le loi

back to track

I am not sure... about that theory, but if they are attached by unnatural. means, i think they are done surgically

[gaunt ice]

i mean,that can explain why no one can id them when you kill one

[sleek plover]

but realistically, i think they are wearing them in a normal way

[gaunt ice]

you need to rip the mask out literally,which also means ripping the skins on their faces

ISAC can't id the corpse because they don't have a face anymore

same with regular agents

[sleek plover]

Maybe they just dont have entry on the database

[gaunt ice]

they seem super inhuman,making weird sounds like growling

maybe that's because they stick the mask on the face by hand,which cause immense pain

[cold bramble]

I've never thought about the mask being stuck to their faces...that's actually pretty cool

[ashen jungle]

It's a bit silly, ngl.
there's like, 0 evidence of it being the case, and more proof that it's not. Like how we take the Mask with us.

[cold bramble]

Flesh could come off with some scrubbing and sanding.

I mean, we don't know the ACTUAL story. So for all we know, the flesh mask thing could be it.

[ashen jungle]

Do we have any reason whatsoever to think that their faces are superglued to the inside of the Mask?

beyond "ISAC can't identify them".

[sick lantern]

maybe they’ve just had facial reconstructive surgery ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[cold bramble]

We don't. But absence of proof is not proof of adsence!

Or....*absence. Whichever. lol

[ashen jungle]

Evidence to fit your conclusion, I see.

[cold bramble]

I'm just saying, these guys kill Agents for fun. They carry hatchets. They're not what one would call "right minded and devoted to duty and justice". Who's to say what kind of craziness they're up to?

[sick lantern]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot

[cold bramble]

I'm not saying that's SPECIFICALLY what they do, I'm saying, we don't know and I think the idea of them being homicidal, patient, psychopaths is pretty cool.

[sick lantern]

yea but glueing their masks to their faces is just unnecessary psycho shit... how do they eat?

[cold bramble]

Straws? Maybe the mask is only glued to the top half of their face or something. No idea.

[sick lantern]

they seem to be a lot closer to “cold and calculating” than “violent psychopath”

[cold bramble]

I'd say someone who hacks another human with a hatchet is not right in the head.

And who says you cant be cold, calculating, AND a violent psychopath?

[sick lantern]

I think “sociopath” would be more accurate

[ashen jungle]

They tape energy bars to the inside and nibble off bits.

[cold bramble]

Ok, fine. Sociopaths.

Hell, maybe they do!

[ashen jungle]

Let's go with "wrong" instead.

[cold bramble]

Anything would be a possibility.

[sick lantern]

but some are considerably more far-fetched than others

[cold bramble]

Absolutely.

[gaunt ice]

Well no one seems to be able to run some paperwork or even look at the face,especially when they(good guys) do cleanups

[cold bramble]

I've always wondered if they were there to clean up the Division. Like getting a cat to get rid of the mice, then having to get a dog to get rid of the cat, etc etc etc

[sick lantern]

also they don’t exactly give me any vibes of being violently self-flagellant

[ashen jungle]

Tell me, when have we heard dialogue about cleanups?
specifically ones pertaining to Hunters.

[gaunt ice]

Corpse magically disappear?

How do you think they brought Bardon back?

[ashen jungle]

It's a video-game, so yes.
at some point, you've gotta just let that logic happen.

[gaunt ice]

Like,the hunters have appeared atleast once in canon,the Bardon manhunt.And they have to pick Bardon back to White House for interrogation

[ashen jungle]

Agent Edwards, thanh.

[gaunt ice]

Yeah but we never caught the guy who killed Edwards(F)

Unless…

[ashen jungle]

Exactly, so where is the info about cleanups of Hunters coming from?

[gaunt ice]

Well I can theorize that…

But I’m too lazy so yeah,you win

[ashen jungle]

this is lore discussion, not a matter of winning.
I'm genuinely asking.

[gaunt ice]

I mean,it does make sense in the great scheme of things

[warped iris]

I do not think the cleanup theory had any proper backing

just a sort of possibility since they seem to be trained specifically to hunt agents

SHD is quite advanced yet they can counter it very easily while hostiles need heavy and immobile EMP generators

[gaunt ice]

Jtf does do cleanup sometimes,like when they scavenged DUA after we cleared it out from Hyenas,or that time when they come to recollect the corpses of the dead agents in that one Outcast underground tunnel

[warped iris]

also in White Oak

you can see the aftermath of our fight, corpses covered with blankets and such

but I think the original point was cleanup of the division as in getting rid of em not cleaup of corpses

[gaunt ice]

Oh and they were taking some papers about the incident when bt hits again in the invaded version of white oaks

[ashen jungle]

The puzzles totally negate that for me, and the existence of them in Survival/Underground don't help matters either.
it really does depend on which Hunters are canon.

[warped iris]

I think the puzzles are not cannon

they make no sense story-wise imo

the first ever encounter was Survival, i'd consider that canon, along with the Edwards mission (seemed like a sort of threat to us) and the Coney island mission

[ashen jungle]

Underground came out before Survival, and they were in that.

[warped iris]

weren't they added retroactively?

[ashen jungle]

see there's the thing, that's starting to pick and choose.
is there any evidence that the puzzles aren't canon? We unlocked them via the Agent Edwards mission after all.

[ashen jungle]

Didn't play Underground at launch, no idea. But either way, why would they not be canon?

[warped iris]

I just believe how we do the puzzles in not cannon

seems too, how to call it, gamey?

as for Underground, there weren't any Hunters there until patch 1.8, the last big patch

as far as I can find

[woven basalt]

kinda how lore works, retroactively.

[warped iris]

but as far as I am aware the first ever encounter was in Survival

maybe the puzzles are meant to represent us getting ambushed or finding the hunters in a different way

how replaying missions and checkpoints is meant to represent us dealing with a Manhunt target

[ashen jungle]

Just saying that you feel like it shouldn't be canon doesn't stop it from being canon.
personally, I'd rule out the CI:AP hunter being canon because to me it feels like we're taking them into the Dalek route. Overuse.

[warped iris]

don't get me wrong I am not saying we don't encounter them in DC at all after Edwards

[ashen jungle]

Manhunt Targets were only added much, much later.

[warped iris]

all I am saying is the way the puzzles play out feels too gamey

why would they wait on some rooftop watching us while we run around some christmass tree 3 times and then they come after us

and why would we even do that to begin with

yes we meet Hunters in DC, but I doubt if this were a full on story it would require puzzles

and my Manhunt example was meant to say that certain events in the story are represented in ways that encourage more gameplay

like say Season 1 right, one of the missions we had to replay was DCD, against Outcasts, but that was merely a gameplay objective, story-wise we already cleared out DCD twice

but it would cost too much to make cleaners version of all those mission in DC

but canonically we fight a group of Cleaners in DC

I am equating the puzzles to that

[ashen jungle]

That is assuming a lot, while some lore in div2 is grey-canon of sorts (e.g. what happened to our Div1 Agent), a lot of that is just speculation and assumptions.

[warped iris]

what do you mean exactly

or where do you think I am wrong

back when Hunters were still being discovered, everyone was exploring the map, looking for clues, it gave people incentives to play

but canonically, why would me shooting a bunch of random windows on a building in some order make a hunter spawn?

[ashen jungle]

I never said that you are wrong, you keep making assumptions.

[warped iris]

just seems like the next closest logical idea to me, make puzzles to keep the community engaged

[ashen jungle]

Exactly, we don't know. It being "game-y" does not make it false. It just means we don't know yet.

[warped iris]

but again I do not mean to say we never meet them in DC after Edwards, far from it

[woven basalt]

idk, toying with div agents seems in line with what the hunters do.

[warped iris]

I am just saying the way we do doesn't really fit well with me

from a story point of view

[ashen jungle]

If we're going down the path of assuming things, then I'll just start throwing out wild theories on why Theo didn't run, how Hornet actually lived in div1, why Keener didn't just run away at the end and try again, did Keener actually know about Lau before that, and if so why not use her as leverage, and if Lau really was undercover, how did Keener not see through it?

[late void]

don't forget the grafitti clues that lead to the hunters in the first place

[ashen jungle]

Why was Lau so damn stupid as to assume that we would understand what she was doing, and why on earth did she not just tell us?

[warped iris]

but tell me this then, how would it fit in the story of Division that we run around a tree 3 times to make a hunter spawn?

[ashen jungle]

I really don't know how to say "we don't know, but that doesn't make it non-canon" any different way.

would semaphore help?

[sick lantern]

i think the fact that it’s utter nonsense would make it non-canon

[warped iris]

yeah that

[sick lantern]

to some degree

[warped iris]

we meet hunters yes, but not through dancing in a pool at night

[woven basalt]

i think they stalk/camp out those locations more than magically spawn (in the game's logic)

[ashen jungle]

Exactly Kirby, "I think".

[warped iris]

the Division is a more grounded story than others

[ashen jungle]

I mean, it's mostly just stolen from a book, but yeah.

[sick lantern]

and I don’t see a single good reason to think otherwise

[warped iris]

why would we suddenly canonically have to twerk alone at night in some pool to spawn some weird voiceless killer

[ashen jungle]

the premise anyway

[warped iris]

if this were some whacky game where stuff like this happens, sure, but Division is more about the tragedy of all the lives lost and the chaos of the aftermath

[ashen jungle]

Ya see all that text dumps above? All that is caused by MSV not just leaving the Hunters as a weird aside and just having to include them in story quests.

[warped iris]

I am fine with the Edwards missions and Coney but the puzzles just felt meh

[ashen jungle]

All they had to do was make them not be in CI:AP and none of this would've happened.

[warped iris]

yeah

but, the Coney encounter is also quite eh, how he does that "rising out of the tomb" in the haunted house

feels like it was a tongue-in-cheek moment if that is the right moment

right term*

[ashen jungle]

Summit is clearly non-canon, an endless resetting tower? Just no.
puzzles, whatever. Who cares. Make them weird.
CI?godarn it MSV.

[warped iris]

also the Rikers screaming and such, it felt like they forced the "horror" aspect onto it

[ashen jungle]

I liked the horror part of that actually, the entire mission felt like they really wanted to do an amusement park mission and jammed some story stuff in there to justify spending dev time on it.

[woven basalt]

i always assumed that hunter was just the weakest in the pack left to die.

[late void]

https://imgur.com/a/w03p1Ml <-so the hunters left giant graffiti riddles about how to 'spawn' them

[woven basalt]

otherwise teaming up with others factions seems odd

[late void]

at least, the original DC ones did

[warped iris]

I liked the way they did the horror aspect in Survival imo, but I feel like they went a bit too much into the horror flick route on Coney Island

in Survival you were alone, cold, sick, it was storming outside, you see agent corpses mutilated around certain areas, you see the HUD glitching

then the Rikers are so scared of a hunter suddenly, when the rikers are some of the most sadistic bastards around

hanging corpses around their territory and such

why don't they also scream when an agent or a squad of agents comes in and wipes them out indiscriminately

[sick lantern]

indeed

[warped iris]

in Wall Street they're even MORE determined to kill us even during their last stand

[ashen jungle]

ngl, the entirety of Survival is a black-mark on div for me.
oh wow, a survival crafting mode tacked on to a game in 2019. How original.

[sick lantern]

2016*

[woven basalt]

hunters delve into psychological warfare more than any other faction, leaving messages, letting them know theyre there, stalking them.

[ashen jungle]

yeah yea, its 4am here. cut me some slack.

[warped iris]

I guess it's a matter of taste

the looter shooter genre wasn't exactly untapped either by that point

[ashen jungle]

well yeah, that's why ubisoft made one.
big companies don't try stuff unless it's a sure thing.
but this is the lore chat, let's get out of the corporate side.

[warped iris]

but I believe Division was always best in its setting rather than gameplay or inovation

it's one of the more realistic high casualty scenarios around

no zombies or whatever

[ashen jungle]

I've been saying for a year now, MSV's best work is in environment design.
but Survival for me just made our Agents look a bit too dumb.

[warped iris]

in what way?

[ashen jungle]

"ill just go into this incredibly dangerous place with no armour whatsoever, a hazmat suit, no other gear, no back-up, no other weapons, in a helicopter, in a blizzard".

the last time we were in a chopper, it crippled Lau.

[sick lantern]

They did have body armour, presumably the weapons were stashed on the helicopter, and presumably the plan was to grab the antivirals quickly and then leave

[woven basalt]

also a lot of people died

[ashen jungle]

Nope, it shows us leaving our gear before we go.

[warped iris]

also not sure how much backup we could have

lots of agents died I assume, even second wave

[ashen jungle]

How about this: a bus. We drive it in, get the stuff, drive it out.

[warped iris]

no way past the DZ gates

plus clogged streets full of abandoned cars

[ashen jungle]

no chance of a chopper freezing mid-air or ice clogging up the rotors that way.

or enemies that we know have anti-air missiles shooting us down.

[sick lantern]

which?

[warped iris]

I guess it depends on when it takes place

LMB could have that yes, but if it takes place after the main story

[ashen jungle]

the gate can be taken apart piece by piece at this point, there's a few ways.
which?

[sick lantern]

gate??

[ashen jungle]

its only available from the main post office, so it's at least past a part of it.

[warped iris]

yes good point

[sick lantern]

if you mean the LMB SAM (Clear Sky) site, that was already offline by that point, I doubt they would launch a fleet of helicopters if they knew there was an AA emplacement online

[ashen jungle]

start of div1, that rocket was shoulder mounted, unless I'm getting it mixed up.

[sick lantern]

nope

[warped iris]

but even so it was just that one case, we do go in the DZ and there are helicopters there all the time

I assume some areas are no-go zones, but not the entire city

[sick lantern]

well they never say, but the chances of it not being what we see in Clear Sky, are minuscule and that would just be poor storytelling

[ashen jungle]

Actually just re-watched it, wasn't even a rocket.

just exploded, so I have to assume that it was a bomb, unless there's a later cut-scene that contradicts that, since also no sound of a rocket hitting it before the boom.

[sick lantern]

Bliss says it’s a surface-to-air missile

explicitly

[ashen jungle]

I mean the chopper explosions at the start. It's totally silent before the boom.

also, just noticed how the Agent is totally visually unharmed right after it shows Lau clearly trying to keep you alive.

[sick lantern]

“you’re more ok than me”

[warped iris]

would have been funny if we were also forced to stay at the base with Lau

and just direct people where to go on a map

[ashen jungle]

You are literally standing upright and not even a tear in your shirt.

its just a bit visually goofy to me, not a big deal.

[warped iris]

it is yeah

[sick lantern]

probably to account for the fact that you could have any cosmetics on at that point

[warped iris]

I guess

the solution would have been to not let us change clothes until after we unlock the HQ

so they could model the clothes as torn for everyone

[ashen jungle]

Would've been fun if the game immediately cut away after the explosion and you're just playing someone helping Lau get the body off the chopper.

[warped iris]

you're a JTF member patrolling the area the entire game

[ashen jungle]

the terrible uniforms they had back then your only cosmetic.

[warped iris]

you would have to follow certain checkpoints around your area that are the patrol route, if you looked suspicious to someone playing as an agent they'd take away your access to the game

[ashen jungle]

nah, you just spend the entire game trying to keep away stray dogs while someone else goes and saves the city like 5x.

I vote to play as the guy with the sore back.

[warped iris]

you see one person coming down from the chopper one day, 5 months later you see em running with a gun with too many attachments on and a santa costume with a Hunter mask

but there's nothing you can say, you can only complain about the sore back

[ashen jungle]

"my back's all f****d up, I need meds bad"
ad infinitum.

[sick lantern]

complain about the cold even when inside a building

[ashen jungle]

To be fair, those high ceilings and that one christmas movie playing over and over would drive anyone crazy.

you'd almost be thankful for the gas attack in WONY

[warped iris]

I so wish we got another expansion damn

maybe a mission on the golden gate bridge

[ashen jungle]

Wrong uh, wrong city.

[warped iris]

another area entirely I mean

we visit some enclave in some other city

new story, new characters and gear

Warlords was such a nice time

[ashen jungle]

Who knows, maybe that's what the free content for div2 we're getting before Christmas will be.

[warped iris]

I would hope so

but now I do recall the words "new progression system" being thrown around

were they official?

[sick lantern]

they said “game mode”

[warped iris]

I think the likeliest thing is a sort of PvP mode where one player is overpowered and the other have to take em down

but we shall see what it is

I just do not see what it could be tbh

[sick lantern]

iirc there was a fake leak that suggested that

something like that

like Infected but with Hunters or something

[ashen jungle]

I would almost put money down on it not being an exclusively PvP mode.

"new to the franchise" does rule out a Horde mode, as fun as that'd be.

[warped iris]

wI think Resistance covers that

[late void]

hmmm, hadn't spotted that the announced content would be free, that does lower my expectations of it somewhat

unless they're actually going to do a paid expansion but throw in some extra free stuff too

[woven basalt]

i kinda expect a season pass if it's free.

[round sinew]

I kinda expect to be disappointed.

[ashen jungle]

I kinda expect to dislike people who whine about something for free.

[tiny wraith]

evening rivens

[sleek plover]

damn I hate LMB

[woven basalt]

but... wasn't bliss gonna make new york great again?

[mint citrus]

A certain definition of great, sure

[ashen jungle]

how about no.

[round sinew]

I'll whine about free or paid content as is my right as an American.

[ashen jungle]

#td2-general-chat message

[gaunt ice]

holy shit you fucking destroyed him

i mean,it's alright to have expectations or criticism

but on the other hand,it's free soooo

[woven basalt]

i like to think of the summit tower as one of his "many successful businesses". why else would all the agents be clamoring to get to its penthouse suite.

[ashen jungle]

Let's just drop this metaphor right now and never bring him up again.

[round sinew]

Who

[woven basalt]

hewhomustnotbenamed

wow, i whiffed on that HP reference.

[sleek plover]

HP lovecraft?

[ashen jungle]

That really is a terrible ign.

[woven basalt]

if it's some kind of sign-for-help, that's pretty terrifying.

[round sinew]

Any news on DLC yet?

[sick lantern]

soon™️

[sleek plover]

what haopened?

[ashen jungle]

not relevant to EU-chat.

[sick lantern]

I wonder if anyone ever has actually stopped to listen to the radios in Survival

who’s the lady? is that Rick Valassi infected or someone else?

[brave locust]

she means trump i assume

his building is in the game

https://imgur.com/a/2w0OZsn

[sick lantern]

that was earlier

and yea you can actually go in the ground floor of Trump Tower as well

[ashen jungle]

Correct.

[sick lantern]

I might’ve done that just now but I got exceptionally good luck in the dark zone at an inconvenient time so I logged out

[ashen jungle]

It only counts if you carpet-bombed it while you were there.

[sick lantern]

it’s a div tech location, it stays intact 😎

[brave locust]

It’s an apartment building too you know. It’s not like it’s just him living there.

And if it’s empty in the game what’s the point

[ashen jungle]

Making a statement.

[brave locust]

It was also a universe where he was never president apparently

[ashen jungle]

actually, div2 is very likely set in the future from even now, so it's possible to be reality.
but let's stop talking about that...person

[brave locust]

wow triggered much

well i dont see why trump would be in the game as president when they have ellis and the other guy. hes just politically not part of the universe whatsoever

i dont even think they show any election stuff leading up to the dollar flu since

[sick lantern]

I don’t think anything productive will come from this conversation now, we’ll all be happier if we stop

[brave locust]

im not advocating for him to be in the game

it wouldnt make sense anyways

[ashen jungle]

shh.

[brave locust]

wow i thought we were adults talking about the game universe

[sick lantern]

very adult and mature, yes

[ashen jungle]

Just move on and stop trying to start fights, Carb'

[brave locust]

lmao im talking about the game, im not afraid of a persons name though

[woven basalt]

most official servers try to stray away from politics, so this shouldnt be surprising.

[sick lantern]

stop trying to start shit dude

[brave locust]

my point is he shouldnt be in the game but his tower is, im not talking politics

i guess thats hard to talk about the division 2 taking place in DC then

[woven basalt]

it's like politics, theres no rule against it, BUT it almost always leads to toxicity, it's the same thing with bringing up political figures

[ashen jungle]

Div1 takes place in 2029 (best as we know), and Ellis was the Speaker.
now please, stop trying to start a fight over a topic that you haven't looked into properly.

[sick lantern]

stop trying to bait people into dumb arguments you sound so lame

[brave locust]

what am i arguing?! nothing! im not advocating for anything.

[sick lantern]

you’re trying to aggravate people

[ashen jungle]

Let's just drastically shift the topic.
anyone read Heart on Fire yet?

[brave locust]

no because its audio

[woven basalt]

the time setting is debatable, it's slowing becoming something i really like about the series, theres different interpretations

[brave locust]

yes i have

but i listened to it, i didnt read it

[ashen jungle]

i thought it was audio.

[brave locust]

yeah but you asked if anyone read it, i didnt know it was a book too

i thought it was just an audio book

[woven basalt]

sigh

[ashen jungle]

you really dont want to make friends here.

[brave locust]

i thought you were being literal im not being sarcastic

because i would buy a copy if it was on something other than audible

did anyone read broken dawn or new york collapse? it doesnt give a year anywhere?

or extremis malis?

[brave locust]

im actually deaf, i wear hearing aids so not listening to it would be very helpful to me. i would love to read it instead.

[ashen jungle]

speech to text is useful, can be finicky but i use it on some stuff when i can.
im in a not dissimilar boat myself.

[brave locust]

not completely deaf

but still

does audible have captions? i just piped it through my hearing aids and got the gist of it but it was loud enough

[ashen jungle]

Never used it, I tend to go through other sources.

[brave locust]

which is why i keep asking for an actual release of Hearts on Fire. Just novelizationize it

print out the script

[ashen jungle]

physical publishing is sorta dead now, i get why they wont

[brave locust]

broken dawn, new york collapse, a new novel, remission coming out, extremix malis all prints

its just this one they kept as audio only

[woven basalt]

only some stuff on audible has an accompanying pdf, but most of the ones i have are "the great courses" or something like those and not audible originals. i tried looking it up, no indication that it comes with a pdf.

[brave locust]

damn

[ashen jungle]

trust me, physical publishing is rough.
yeah a pdf is about as far as most places will go now.

[brave locust]

not to be pedantic but im aware, im a huge book guy

they still managed to do it with the other things is all im saying. even released on a CD im surprised they didnt do. even the soundtrack they did. all the art books.

[ashen jungle]

I mean from the other side...nvm.

[brave locust]

some company did a limited vinyl for the first soundtrack

[brave locust]

i get what youre saying

[woven basalt]

yeah, its way easier these days to get your book noticed if you make an audiobook and bundle it with a pdf of it.

[brave locust]

or a goodreads giveaway lol

[woven basalt]

still too easy to get swallowed up in the sheer amount of new titles.

[brave locust]

but as an excuse to not fully release hearts on fire? i dont buy that.

it was released as intended i suppose

[woven basalt]

theres a legit novel coming out later, so it's more of a strategy move to cover both mediums

[brave locust]

i just want captions

[woven basalt]

in fact, by the looks of the upcoming roadmap, pretty much all mediums

[ashen jungle]

I'm sticking with "a way to build hype for the movie", and yeah later on they'll probs do a digital book release.

[brave locust]

i hope so

[ashen jungle]

tbh, super not interested in either reading/listening to it. I've read enough tie-in books to not have found more than a handful of good ones.

[brave locust]

for the division?

[woven basalt]

hearts on fire

[brave locust]

enough tie-in books for the division or other series

i was going to ask what else there was

[ashen jungle]

Across all fiction.
I used to be quite into movie tie-ins and woof, those are bad.

if you ever want a good laugh, read the 2003 Hulk tie-in novel.

[brave locust]

the resident evil series sure ran with it

just random shit thrown in there

[cold bramble]

Any good resident evil books?

I'm in need of a new book and would like it to tie into a game I've played

[sick lantern]

Nope

[mint citrus]

New York Collapse was decent

[sick lantern]

this book is about Resident Evil?😳🤔

[woven basalt]

the upcoming far cry survival guide looks like it's following that format, which sounds cool.

[woven basalt]

way more solid than the guys basing the date on random assets around the map, nice catch.

[gaunt ice]

not so 2029 now aye?

now this also means that the entirety of Division takes place around 2015-2016

does it change what we know about the timeline now?

[brave locust]

I always thought it was 2015/2016

Basically current day

I think there was a beginning cutscene that said the year, basically that

[gaunt ice]

weird.cuz there aren't any?

[woven basalt]

i think it's 2016 (like when the game came out), the 2015 article seems like it was published when the quarantine starts, not when the second wave is activated.

[ashen jungle]

idk, I've heard too many conflicting theories now, and that makes me think that MSV push the timeline back as they need to.

at one point, it mentioned 2019 in a piece of concept art, but then they edited it out.

[woven basalt]

that tweet is from 2015, before the second game. before even the first game released.

[brave locust]

im remembering back from when the first games release or something

im just assuming its current day-ish

[ashen jungle]

I'm 99% sure the intro cinematic to div1 was never edited post-launch.

[woven basalt]

not sure what that means.

[brave locust]

theres a year somewhere in the released media

[ashen jungle]

that.
If something as simple as a year was posted post-launch, then this wouldn't even be a discussion that's been on-going for 2+ years now.

[brave locust]

we'll see

[woven basalt]

oh, yeah, i wasnt paying attention to carbs' post, so i missed the context, lol

[ashen jungle]

hah, understandable.

[ashen jungle]

people have been trying to clarify this for a long time now, if all we had to do was guess then it wouldn't still be an on-going question in 2021.

[brave locust]

yeah i got it

it'l come out eventually

if not out already somewhere

[ashen jungle]

I'm fairly convinced that MSV keep pushing it back, to make sense of the timeline.

[brave locust]

the movie will probably give a year

[ashen jungle]

that's assuming the movie is even canon, god I hope that they don't pull a "this is your agent, this is the canon now" thing.

[woven basalt]

i'm gonna wait to see if they do an alternative take on the universe before accepting anything from it as canon

[ashen jungle]

In my mind, the best thing they can do is make it a side-story.

[brave locust]

without remorse was pretty good but thats a different franchise and actually a book from the 90s

[gaunt ice]

so somehow we all missed it?

[woven basalt]

it's way different from the book.

[brave locust]

okay

[gaunt ice]

the answer was right under our nose and we never noticed?

[woven basalt]

NGN didnt, i've heard him reference it a couple times

oh, in here, not in a video

[ashen jungle]

I am not fully convinced that tweet solves it.
I mean, the fact that it's from pre-release alone makes it iffy to me.

I've seen it before, it's squidgy.

[brave locust]

is it not canon that dollar flu black friday was 2015 at least?

[ashen jungle]

That is the point, we do not know.

[woven basalt]

the book is like half death wish and half rambo, like.... if the death wish dude kept getting interrupted to go do some rambo-ing in vietnam... a few times

[brave locust]

is it just an assumption because of the games release?

or development rather

[ashen jungle]

bingo.

[brave locust]

since it came out in 2016

according to the 2nd game its 7 months later

[woven basalt]

the part that bothers me.... i dont recall the part in div 2 where they said it was a certain number of months since the green flu attack, that game was 3 years later, that time-leap is so short.

[brave locust]

i need to reread these books

[woven basalt]

it makes it, in theory, an alt-present game that becomes an.... alt-past game?

[brave locust]

i think time works different here

i mean a movie sequel doesnt include the time between release dates

[woven basalt]

it's all clearly some clever hunter trick/trap. clearly.

i like it better when it's totally ambiguous.

the vaguer the better.

[ashen jungle]

grey-canon is best canon

[sick lantern]

i’d sooner believe the evidence in the game than out of it

[ashen jungle]

Especially since that tweet is from the year before div1 came out.

tbh, I'm loathe to blindly accept any lore channel. Especially one that looks at a series with as much grey-canon as Div has.

[gaunt ice]

i mean,it's ubi themselves posting this,is there a reason why it isn't credible?

[sick lantern]

it’s entirely possible the direction for the world building changed between then and Div 1’s completion

a near future setting gives more freedom than a contemporary one

[gaunt ice]

i mean,it's fictional,so they can bring out all sorts of weird tech and we'd still be cool with it

maybe US has already developed a shield made out of nanomachines in 2015,or Russia has hovercrafts that can sneak all the way to DC without being noticed by the Navy

[sick lantern]

so far Russian funded at most, presumably they were assembled stateside

if the BT were operating with direct Russian support it would make more sense for them to be operating out of the west coast or Alaska surely

[sick lantern]

modern warfare 2 moment
isn’t there a downed satellite atop the Summit? maybe it actually is like they did in mw2 :o

[gaunt ice]

but it's explained in mw2 how they managed to sneak into US

in the division?fuck you and that's why

[gaunt ice]

ah yes,all it takes is one broken satellite to disable the entirety of US intelligence department

[gaunt ice]

is it possible that the bt hovercraft actually fly so high and has opticamo so they can slip through the Navy?

[woven basalt]

lol, but that's what you've been doing. it's extremely obvious from the design of the opening and everything else that the timeline was meant to be obscured, theres way more evidence to that effect than a random set piece that some people have somehow convinced themselves the devs decided was going to be their sole means of setting the time period.

because now you're closing your eyes not only to the design in the game, but also material that directly ties in.

[ashen jungle]

Hopper, chill.

I take no single word as law on any subject, and neither should any of you.
someone who runs a lore channel posts a single tweet from 2015 and now you're getting angry at Kirby.
Chill.

[woven basalt]

youre projecting an attitude, nothing angry in there. plus, im saying to take everything in. not just the stuff that fits your own theory

[sick lantern]

I do, and I think evidence that’s actually in the game holds more weight than that that isn’t

[ashen jungle]

Hopper is at least a little right tho, can't rely on a single sign in-game.

[sick lantern]

it’s the closest to concrete evidence we have, an art asset that was created and placed purposely

[woven basalt]

art assets are generally the part made by the most hands, meaning by multiple studios

[ashen jungle]

that's not a good point to make, hopper.

the fact is that they can and have edited the timeline before, simple as that.

[woven basalt]

it's kinda what ubisoft shanghai did before they got to make full games... wait, they made from-scratch splinter cells, why did they get a downgrade.. hmm

[ashen jungle]

hell, I'm pretty sure they edited who runs the BT without removing the old lore from in-game too.

[woven basalt]

i kinda hope the next retcon pushes the timeline up, i mean.... the 2016s.... i want it to be a little more 2020s

or back, the 20XX....

[ashen jungle]

I'd be happy with "10 years from now" for all time.

[woven basalt]

yes, that wouldve been better

[sick lantern]

nah they’ll introduce some random new rogue agent and say they were the leader of the black tusk all along

[ashen jungle]

Oh it's 2021, Div1 takes place in 2031 now.
boom, timeline made rock solid.

[ashen jungle]

"Sokolova was really lazy and this rogue agent ran it all along"
grumblejoeferrogrumble

[woven basalt]

that, or if they were aware of the current confusion, they should lean into it and have fun, really mess with us and throw a lot more possible dates at us.

[sick lantern]

The Division: 1959

[ashen jungle]

Division 3: woodstock

"Sheriff, the rogues have shut down Hendrix's guitar"

[woven basalt]

or go all stranger things and say it was the 80s the whole time, or better yet, make every district a different time-"zone"

[ashen jungle]

god, I can't wait until media is sick of making everything in the 80s.

ive heard more synth now than existed in the actual 80s

[sick lantern]

||I’m a god damn onion, Mason||

[woven basalt]

ugh, the far cry blood dragon OST taught me i can only take so much synth, literally felt ill after a couple hours

who was that, powerglove?

[ashen jungle]

the only thing I remember about blood dragon is the fact that Hicks was in it.

[woven basalt]

yeah, all his joke one-liners made the game.

[dry spear]

Are you Real?

[near ibex]

He is

[woven basalt]

i wonder if jake gyllenhaal is actually a big fan of ubisoft, the div agent is gonna be his second ubi-protag.

[ashen jungle]

💰 💵 💲 we know one thing he's a fan of.

frankly, I don't need an actor to be "into" the source material, as long as they put in a good performance.

[gaunt ice]

"yeah you're the expert in quiet"

but fr,the division in the 80s would just be cod Black Ops,but national guards?

[gaunt ice]

Reminds me of the guy who plays L in Netflix Death Note,he’s super into the manga character and was disappointed with the character in the movie

[woven basalt]

henry cavill in the witcher is a better, more recent example of a fan/actor. but i guess they can't all be that perfect, lol.

[gaunt ice]

Cavill’s a real gamer,almost lost the role of Superman because he was playing video games

Back on track:do you think it’d make sense for the Division to have a backstory that dates way back in time?

Like,say 1960-1990?

[sick lantern]

nah

cus of Operation Dark Winter

[gaunt ice]

Oops,forgot about that one

Did anything really happen after that irl?

[sick lantern]

unless they want to delve into real conspiracy/alt history stuff

[sick lantern]

iirc Directive 51 is actually a real thing

[dry spear]

Nice

[gaunt ice]

Wait what

[sick lantern]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_and_Homeland_Security_Presidential_Directive

[gaunt ice]

Holy shit it’s real

[round sinew]

It's real. SHD isn't.

COG is a real process that most modern governments have.

[sick lantern]

unsurprisingly

[round sinew]

To be fair though.

[sick lantern]

but there’s a lot of classified stuff so who knows 👀

[round sinew]

Most of Directive 51 is classified- Yeah

It's a nice topic for the conspiracy enthusiasts.

[warped iris]

I do wonder something

Black Tusk calls us a rogue agency a bunch of times, and truth be told we do go against the president, even if he got that spot through treachery

might ANNA replace ISAC if we go "rogue" in a future release?

[ashen jungle]

Okay so basically, BT planned on installing Ellis as a "puppet pres." of sorts, he was actually on the way to the White House when someone shot down his jet.

[warped iris]

yeah

basically subdue the Division is what they wanted

if the president is in their pockets and he controls us, they control us by extension too

[ashen jungle]

BT are actually guilty of capitol treason, planning the murder of the president.
so them calling us a "rogue agency" is basically them being massive hypocrites.

[warped iris]

oh for sure

I am not disagreeing, I just do wonder, does ISAC actually know?

ISAC was shown in certain rogue stories to be very black and white so to speak, no middle ground

[ashen jungle]

As far as I can tell, Ellis was never officially re-sworn in as Pres before he went AWOL again.

[warped iris]

the president is a traitor, but technically is the president, how does ISAC see that

hmm

so maybe it's not updated in ISAC's view?

[ashen jungle]

I mean, is he still the Pres.? He was presumed dead, at that point COG would kick in and the next highest ranking person would be leader.
not sure who that is in div2, but I guess just pick a city employee who's not dead yet.

[warped iris]

hmm

as far as I recall, the president is gone and his official replacement, making Ellis 3rd in line

but as far as I recall, he's not thought dead, Manny specifies his capture in the story

[ashen jungle]

Yeah Ellis was the Speaker of the House, 3rd in line to the Pres in normal terms too.

[warped iris]

either way it would be funny in a ironic way if the story makes us "rogue" even if we still fight for the people but we use Keener's ANNA

[ashen jungle]

uh no, cause in the mission where you find him, he goes "holy s**t, the president is alive" or something.
after that he was evac'd, then Lau shot him so he's 100% dead now.

[warped iris]

you are right yes, but earlier in a cutscene, right at the start, Manny talks to Kelso and he doesn't say Ellis is dead

he says he is captured by one of the faction

[ashen jungle]

"missing, presumed dead" iirc

[warped iris]

maybe it's a mismatch by mistake?

as in how they wrote the dialogue

[ashen jungle]

yeah probs a mistake, because him being "alive" at that point was a big plot point shock.

I'm actually curious who is next in line. Is Manny? He seems to be in-charge, national guard he's technically a government employee.

[warped iris]

I think so

granted, the story mentions officials being taken to some safe place, so maybe someone from outside of DC also

[ashen jungle]

We don't actually know if they're still alive tho, or at least not mentioned in-game.
I like to think there's a bunch of rich politicians somewhere that are just skeletons.

[warped iris]

seems the entire country is in chaos

I would not be surprised if things went wrong there

[ashen jungle]

makes sense, the NSA hub in DC went to hell too.

[warped iris]

and hell we see Rikers on Coney Island of all places, quite far place to reach for em after all that devastation

and I assume not on boats either, so they have more reach than we think

[ashen jungle]

Well, some of the factions do have access to boats.
one of the DLC side-missions is you destroying a cargo boat that one of them uses.

[warped iris]

Black Tusk could have eliminated undersirables in case Ellis dies, so the next in line is also in their pocket

[ashen jungle]

If I were to put money down, the next-in-line is at their main base.

[warped iris]

oh yeah for sure

I do wonder though, they seem a bit worn out by the time we finish Liberty Island

then they resort to using other factions as proxies through rogues

how much more manpower and gear have they got